.htmlIn a message dated 4/13/02 3:26:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

Whatever Zira's affidavit says, it can ONLY tell the Tribunal what
Taylor had already communicated to Zira IN THE "MAP" SCENE,

You assume we're seeing everything that happened.  Often things happen off camera.  We didn't see him being take to Cornelius' office.  We didn't see him have sex with Nova.  Obviously he had made a written statement before the map scene even started.  He could have written her a speech as long as one of your posts, and it just was before the map scene started.


What are you guys talking about?!!!   Taylor wrote his statement right there in court on his knees in front of Cornelius and Zira.  He started writing as soom as the gorillas who gagged him let him loose.  The orangutans on the tribunal refer to the statement as Zira's simply because they WILL NOT except that a man can write -- even if the creature does it right in front of them!

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/13/02 4:17:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:

  I wanted to see "Solaris". And they aren't showing it again, the creeps!
It sounds bad but I'd like to see why Cameron and Soderbergh want to remake
it. Soderbergh's one of the more interesting directors right now so it'll be
interesting to see how he does in the same trap Burton was in: a remake of a
classic sci-fi movie for Fox. Quick.                     - - Jeff

I've read that James Cameron is now going to direct the remake of FANTASTIC VOYAGE.  Has anyone else seen that news?   Damn, but I wish Fox had just let Cameron do what he wanted with APES.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/13/02 12:30:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

Look at his map;
you got the "ape city" area on the LEFT, a dashed line going DOWN THE
MIDDLE, and the FORBIDDEN ZONE on the RIGHT. In order for Taylor to be
"deep" into this area (which is ON THE RIGHT of the map), and for it
to be "towards the North" (from the perspective of Brent's current
location in "the city of the apes"), then the map MUST be "oriented"
with the Orient/East on the BOTTOM, since North MUST be to the RIGHT.
Follow the shoreline (as Taylor told Lucius he'd do), to the RIGHT on
the Map: THAT'S NORTHWARD.

What part of this don't you understand? It's plain as day.

Patrick Michael Tilton
EARTH-TIME 4-13-2002

Yeah, and when Cornelius says "the area between the lake and the sea" then we know what that area is because we saw it in the first film, AND since Cornelius says "towards the north" this is why I decided over twenty years ago that Cornelius simply is holding the map sideways in PLANET.  If that is true, then I looked for what body of water on the eastcoast of the U.S. could be big enough to be the 'dead lake' or 'an inland sea of our eastern desert' (as Zaius says in PLANET). and what I saw was Chesapeake Bay -- and an area map of Chesapeake Bay and Cornelius' map look pretty damn close.  Good enough for me.  I don't care what subway station Brent stumbles into in BENEATH -- that movie's a mess anyway.

But, as the one here who started this whole map argument long ago, I'd like to say enough is enough already.  As Dr. Milo said in ESCAPE, "Stop arguing!"   Everybody just think whatever you want to think.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/13/02 6:12:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, whitty@... writes:

Patrick,

Please clarify:  are you trying to "unflub" (another word not in the
dictionary) here by saying the map is sideways, or do you really believe it
is true?

Michael

I believe the map is in actuality sideways in PLANET (and in BENEATH!  On my DVD I can freeze a frame where you just see a little of the map after Cornelius lays it down -- it's the same prop as in PLANET.)  Hey, maybe to the apes north is on their right, west is in front, east behind, and south to the left.  It is all in how you look at things.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/13/02 6:14:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, whitty@... writes:

Australia would be in big trouble without the US as our allies.

Well, does Australia have the bomb?   If not, you should get some.  Atomic weapons are wonderful for keeping your enemies from attacking you.  How do you think we got through the Cold War?  And what do you think keeps the Israelis safe from having their country overrun?

Glory be to the Bomb Almighty!   Is now ever shall be World Without End!  Amen, Baby!

-- Rory
<.html

Yes and the hatch that already blew - a time warp (ask Hasslein).

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: MTotsky@... [MTotsky@...]
> Sent: Sunday, 14 April 2002 8:48
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Planet of the Fairy Tales
>
>
>
> In a message dated 4/13/02 10:17:26 AM,
> patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:
>
> << I've never said it's possible to fix ALL the flubs; remember the
> already-blown hatch shot BEFORE Taylor tells Dodge to "Blow the
> hatch!"? The sneakers-shot is yet another of the type of flub that
> absolutely CANNOT be "unflubbed" >>
>
> Sure it can:
>
> While Dr. Zaius, Zira and Cornelius are not looking, Taylor digs a little
> deeper in the cave in the Forbidden Zone near the spot where the doll,
> dentures, etc. were uncovered. He comes across a pair of old Nike
> Air Jordans
> in his size and puts them on, figuring that running through Ape
> City and the
> Forbidden Zone in his bare feet is for the birds. Since Taylor is
> from the
> 1970s, he doesn't put two and two together and realize the funky looking
> shoes are really from Earth years after he left.
>
> Mat
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html In a message dated 4/13/02 6:14:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, whitty@... writes:

Australia would be in big trouble without the US as our allies.

Well, does Australia have the bomb?   If not, you should get some.  Atomic weapons are wonderful for keeping your enemies from attacking you.  How do you think we got through the Cold War?  And what do you think keeps the Israelis safe from having their country overrun?

Glory be to the Bomb Almighty!   Is now ever shall be World Without End!  Amen, Baby!

-- Rory


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .
<.html

Look at the scene again Rory. The President lays Taylor's statement
down between him and Zaius. But Zaius refers to a scroll in front of
him, pointing at it with his knuckle. Taylor's statement is still
lying between Zaius and the President in the shot.

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> What are you guys talking about?!!! Taylor wrote his statement
right there
> in court on his knees in front of Cornelius and Zira. He started
writing as
> soom as the gorillas who gagged him let him loose. The orangutans
on the
> tribunal refer to the statement as Zira's simply because they WILL
NOT except
> that a man can write -- even if the creature does it right in front
of them!
>
> -- Rory

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 1:19 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Solaris

I wanted to see "Solaris". And they aren't showing it again, the creeps!
It sounds bad but I'd like to see why Cameron and Soderbergh want to remake
it.

Yeah, I think Cooney bought the rights to the book it was based on.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

I didn't think you took Beneath that seriously, Rory. The film has so
many mistakes, from the date meter to Zaius refer to both Cornelius
and Zira as Psychologists when Cornelius was an Archaeologist. Maybe
he got another degree between films.

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> Yeah, and when Cornelius says "the area between the lake and the
sea" then we
> know what that area is because we saw it in the first film, AND
since
> Cornelius says "towards the north" this is why I decided over
twenty years
> ago that Cornelius simply is holding the map sideways in PLANET.
If that is
> true, then I looked for what body of water on the eastcoast of the
U.S. could
> be big enough to be the 'dead lake' or 'an inland sea of our
eastern desert'
> (as Zaius says in PLANET). and what I saw was Chesapeake Bay -- and
an area
> map of Chesapeake Bay and Cornelius' map look pretty damn close.
Good enough
> for me. I don't care what subway station Brent stumbles into in
BENEATH --
> that movie's a mess anyway.
>
> But, as the one here who started this whole map argument long ago,
I'd like
> to say enough is enough already. As Dr. Milo said in ESCAPE, "Stop
arguing!"
> Everybody just think whatever you want to think.
>
> -- Rory

I think Patrick's plan is to go up on the space station then come
back down to Australia in 20 years and hit on your daughters.

--- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> Well I'm sure a genius like you can tell me how the Twilight Zone is
> relevant a POTA discussion. Actually, knowing the background of
the script
> writer could help you cope with the flubs.
>
> Thanks for keeping this one short so I don't have to print it and
read it
> (appropriately?) in the crapper!

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 5:54 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Solaris

In a message dated 4/13/02 4:17:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:

  I wanted to see "Solaris". And they aren't showing it again, the creeps!
It sounds bad but I'd like to see why Cameron and Soderbergh want to remake
it. Soderbergh's one of the more interesting directors right now so it'll be
interesting to see how he does in the same trap Burton was in: a remake of a
classic sci-fi movie for Fox. Quick.                     - - Jeff

I've read that James Cameron is now going to direct the remake of FANTASTIC VOYAGE.  Has anyone else seen that news?   Damn, but I wish Fox had just let Cameron do what he wanted with APES.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 6:06 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Hands off Australia!

In a message dated 4/13/02 6:14:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, whitty@... writes:

Australia would be in big trouble without the US as our allies.

Well, does Australia have the bomb?   If not, you should get some.  Atomic weapons are wonderful for keeping your enemies from attacking you.  How do you think we got through the Cold War?  And what do you think keeps the Israelis safe from having their country overrun?

Glory be to the Bomb Almighty!   Is now ever shall be World Without End!  Amen, Baby!

-- Rory


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

Obviously, Cornelius and Zira came to an understanding with Zauis since
the first movie. They aren't on trial for heresy. Perhaps part of the deal
was Cornelius couldn't be an archeologist anymore, stirring up trouble. Now
he helps out Zira. Quick. - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 7:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Map Description


> I didn't think you took Beneath that seriously, Rory. The film has so
> many mistakes, from the date meter to Zaius refer to both Cornelius
> and Zira as Psychologists when Cornelius was an Archaeologist. Maybe
> he got another degree between films.
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> > Yeah, and when Cornelius says "the area between the lake and the
> sea" then we
> > know what that area is because we saw it in the first film, AND
> since
> > Cornelius says "towards the north" this is why I decided over
> twenty years
> > ago that Cornelius simply is holding the map sideways in PLANET.
> If that is
> > true, then I looked for what body of water on the eastcoast of the
> U.S. could
> > be big enough to be the 'dead lake' or 'an inland sea of our
> eastern desert'
> > (as Zaius says in PLANET). and what I saw was Chesapeake Bay -- and
> an area
> > map of Chesapeake Bay and Cornelius' map look pretty damn close.
> Good enough
> > for me. I don't care what subway station Brent stumbles into in
> BENEATH --
> > that movie's a mess anyway.
> >
> > But, as the one here who started this whole map argument long ago,
> I'd like
> > to say enough is enough already. As Dr. Milo said in ESCAPE, "Stop
> arguing!"
> > Everybody just think whatever you want to think.
> >
> > -- Rory
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Attachments :

You can see it clearly here. Taylor's written statement is still lying beside the President and Zaius is refering to the scroll in front of him, not the statement.

Zauis is reading Zira's statement...I guess. How hard is it for the apes
to make those scrolls. I thought they were for sacred laws. She says, "That
is his assertion". She wrote up his case. Quick. - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: <JamesA1102@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2002 8:04 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Taylor's Statement


> You can see it clearly here. Taylor's written statement is still lying
beside the President and Zaius is refering to the scroll in front of him,
not the statement.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

"patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...> wrote:

> *** "... all the ruins of cities they encounter..." are in California,
> the "ruins" being of the two Bay Area cities of Oakland ("The Legacy")
> and San Francisco ("The Trap").

But if you want to be really literal in studying all the minor details -
they use the same establishing shot of the same ruins in both episodes, so
the cities must be the same one. Another "flub" for your thesis!

Alan

Rory <Haristas@...> wrote:

> Isn't it also obvious, Patrick, that Taylor is riding north, up the

eastern

> coastline, at the end of PLANET? And that the ocean level has dropped in

two

> thousand years? That would help explain the massive erosion seen in the
> landscape, and I would say that the cliff to the right of the ruined

statue

> is the side of what was, now attached to the mainland, Liberty Island.

Only

> problem with the scene: You would be able to see the ruins of Mahattan in

the

> distance.

Maybe Manhattan was nuked into the sea during the war...?

Alan

.html

I'm sure a genius like you can tell me how the Twilight Zone is
relevant a POTA discussion.

That's a an easy one.
Both written by Rod Serling.
I haven't checked, but I'm sure
that someone else beat me to that connection.

<.html

I've always thought of Planet as the ulitmate TW episode.

--- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:
>
> > I'm sure a genius like you can tell me how the Twilight Zone is
> > relevant a POTA discussion.
>
> That's a an easy one.
> Both written by Rod Serling.
> I haven't checked, but I'm sure
> that someone else beat me to that connection.

--- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:

>This is kinda what I was trying to politely suggest, but James does

seem to make the point very subtlely (oh I hope that is a word and is
spelled correctly - and that the sarcasm isn't lost on anyone....).
Australia would be in big trouble without the US as our allies, but we
do tend to kick ass in most sports that are played internationally and
it really bruises my pride that anyone would want to claim our country
and call it "New America". [***If there's no civilization left there
(following all-out Nuke War), and if those few still around have been
reduced to savagery, why shouldn't still-sophisticated people "claim"
that non-radioactive land for themselves? It's not like they'd be
doing it just to piss off the Aussies; they'd do it because it is
human nature to re-fashion your environment in the "image" that one is
accustomed to.]

>But this comes from a guy who invents a mothership called "Earth" to

explain a flub, so I guess it is harmless enough unless he runs for
office.

*** Heaven forbid if somebody ever got elected to office whose agenda
was to make sense out of and then correct other people's mistakes!

>Almost ironic to rename Australia, seeing as I assume the American

nuclear weapons would have largely contributed to the conditions these
people are living under!

*** The United States (luckily) was the first nation to figure out how
to build nuclear weapons. The Nazis and the Japanese also had nuclear
weapon-building programs, but thanks to Allied efforts those programs
were thwarted. Can you imagine a world where the Nazis and/or the
Japanese (during WW2) had gotten the Bomb first? Would you prefer to
live under racist, fascist, totalitarian dictatorial rule?
The USA used two nukes to end World War Two, and we've never used them
since. We used nukes to END a war that would have cost far more lives
had they not been used. Thank Einstein & Oppenheimer & Truman &
General Groves (etc. etc.) that the USA--and not the Nazis or
Japanese--were the first.
Considering that the USA--in the POTA universe--is nuked, it's fair to
imply that OTHER countries with nuclear capabilities did THAT damage.
Also, considering that the USA had the Alpha Omega Bomb--a bomb that
was designed to be used as the ultimate deterrent ("Mutual Assured
Destruction" doctrine)--and did NOT detonate it (since it ends up with
the Mendez group, untriggered until Taylor does so at the end of
BENEATH), suggests to me that the Nuclear War that turns the
"paradise" of the New York City area (etc.) into the "desert" called
"the Forbidden Zone" was instigated by a war-mongering country that
unfortunately acquired nuclear weapons capability yet lacked the
restraint that the USA has shown ever since 9 August 1945. Somehow,
foreign countries launched a nuke attack against America (in my
scenario, in 2006), and rather than follow through with the intended
threat of detonating the Alpha Omega Bomb (the "deterrence" purpose of
its construction) the USA "shelves" the Doomsday Bomb, and settles for
retaliation with conventional nukes.
What sort of "foreign threat" might exist in the POTA universe in the
early-21st Century that is not above using nuclear weapons (as well as
other weapons of mass destruction)? If the POTA universe has any
similarities left with the real universe, then well-financed, radical
Islamic terrorist groups (like Al-Qaeda) seem like a likely candidate
for the "trigger" that sets off the Global Thermonuclear War. Or am I
being unjustly critical of the Islam-dominated part of the world?
[insert sarcastic tone of voice here]

>OK Patrick, you can come and visit, screw our women (just between

you and I most of the American soldiers in WW1 sat in Australian
offices and did just this while our own were fighting and dying), but
don't rename our country please.

>
> Michael

*** Michael, if I were to win the Powerball and/or the Publishers
Clearing House sweepstakes, then I'd love to go and visit the land
"down under" (at the time, I'm not too thrilled with the idea of being
a tourist in Egypt or Israel...), and if any 'Sheilas' there were
willing, hey, I'd be honored with the welcome 'down under' (if you
catch my drift).
As regards your WW1 dig at American soldiers, just be glad that
America joined the war effort on the side of the Brits/French/Aussies,
etc.; our country didn't start that damned war (or the Second one),
and we lost enough men there trying to help clean up the mess that
Europe was overly prone to start. Also be glad that America didn't
have ambitions to conquer the world (as Patton wanted to), since we
had the means to do so when we acquired the Bomb before anybody else,
yet we chose to allow other countries--even those we HAD conquered--to
follow their own courses: we de-Nazified Germany and "democratized"
Japan... and then gave the Germans and Japanese their own countries
back, now that they were no longer bent on conquering us and had
settled for being prosperous allies instead.
As for my scenario involving American "scientists" who de-orbit and
re-fashion a war-ravaged, savage Australia into their "New America",
remember that this is meant (in part) as an explanation for that
curious picture in Farrow's book. Had it been a picture of "Paris:
2503", then I would have had to suppose that somehow a group of
technology-savvy Frenchmen had survived the War and then built a
futuristic "Paris" in a "New France" somewhere (whether in Australia
or somewhere else)! Would non-Americans build a futuristic city and
give it a name that is cherished primarily by Americans? We're stuck
with the picture being of "New York City: 2503", yet it's NOT a
picture of the nuke-devastated ruin where Mendez's group ends up. This
new "NYC" has to be SOMEWHERE, so why not at the antipodal
former-Australia, whose "Cape YORK Peninsula" would make an obvious
nomenclatural connection, if turned into an urban metropolis?
Mike, it was my FONDNESS for Australia (which I would love to visit,
though sadly I can't afford it right yet) that prompted me to choose
it as the "safe haven" for the high-tech group which somehow survives
the Nuke War and builds a new futuristic version of "NYC". It doesn't
mean that any (let alone ALL) Australian placenames would be
eradicated on any "New American" map; just as Native American names
(like "Dakota", "Minnesota", etc.) still denote geographical areas
that are now dominated by once-English colonists (and then other
European countries' emigrees), so too would "New America" still retain
Aussie placenames--such as the new capitol being "Washington D.C.",
where the "D.C." stands for "District of Canberra" (one of cities that
probably WOULD--unfortunately--suffer a nuke strike in an all-out
thermonuclear war).

Patrick Michael Tilton
EARTH-TIME 4-14-2002

Yes its in the mind of the artist that drew it. It's not a photo but
a drawing.


--- In pota@y..., "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@y...>
wrote:

> We're stuck with the picture being of "New York City: 2503", yet

it's NOT a

> picture of the nuke-devastated ruin where Mendez's group ends up.

This

> new "NYC" has to be SOMEWHERE, so why not at the antipodal
> former-Australia, whose "Cape YORK Peninsula" would make an obvious
> nomenclatural connection, if turned into an urban metropolis?
> Mike, it was my FONDNESS for Australia (which I would love to

visit,

> though sadly I can't afford it right yet) that prompted me to

choose

> it as the "safe haven" for the high-tech group which somehow

survives

> the Nuke War and builds a new futuristic version of "NYC". It

doesn't

> mean that any (let alone ALL) Australian placenames would be
> eradicated on any "New American" map; just as Native American names
> (like "Dakota", "Minnesota", etc.) still denote geographical areas
> that are now dominated by once-English colonists (and then other
> European countries' emigrees), so too would "New America" still

retain

> Aussie placenames--such as the new capitol being "Washington D.C.",
> where the "D.C." stands for "District of Canberra" (one of cities

that

> probably WOULD--unfortunately--suffer a nuke strike in an all-out
> thermonuclear war).
>
> Patrick Michael Tilton
> EARTH-TIME 4-14-2002

Yeah but your solution for a broken traffic light would be
reinventing the car and then tearing up all the roads and building
new ones.


--- In pota@y..., "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@y...>
wrote:

> *** Heaven forbid if somebody ever got elected to office whose

agenda

> was to make sense out of and then correct other people's mistakes!

--- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:

> Patrick,

Please clarify: are you trying to "unflub" (another word not in the
dictionary) here by saying the map is sideways, or do you really
believe it is true?

> Michael

*** So I coined a word! Do you know how many words Shakespeare coined
that are now in common use? Take the word "flub" (which, for all I
know, isn't in the dictionary either, but IS used all the time in
regards to "mistakes" made in a film) and apply a negating prefix
(like "un-"), and you get "unflub". I could have chosen "de-flub",
which would have worked just as well (as in "decontaminate", etc.). My
point about the word "james..." used ("conveluted") is that it is
atrociously misspelled--and he continued to misspell it even after he
was shown the correct spelling (ditto for his "Zauis">"Zaius" gaffe).

What I "really believe" is true in regards to Cornelius' map is that
Cornelius held the WEST border of the map in his left hand when he
held it up, with NORTH being towards the right side (where Taylor,
standing there on the right, could use his hand to indicate the
journey he and Dodge and Landon took from the Lake to the Hunt area).
Cornelius' map is NOT a map of the entire frigging world; it's not a
map of the "North American" continent either. It's a map of the
Ape-inhabited region and its northern neighbor--the "Forbidden Zone",
which presumably had NOT been officially mapped (since it was
forbidden to go there)... but which HAD been mapped by Cornelius in
the previous year when he had "exceeded his [travel permit] orders"
and done a mapping survey. Remember, Cornelius must have been the one
to draw this map, since we know that HE had been to the Forbidden Zone
in general AND (in addition to the coastal "Cave" site) had been in
the "Dead Lake" area in specific ("The terrain around that lake is
poisonous" he says; he couldn't know that unless he had been there).
In ESCAPE he tells Lewis Dixon that not only can he read a map, but "I
can even draw one".
His line to Brent ("towards the North") clinches it for me that the
coastline of the Ocean extends NORTHWARD. A mapmaker (like Cornelius)
would NOT be prone to making that kind of stupid mistake, saying that
an EAST-BOUND horserider is travelling "towards the North". Zaius'
line about the splashdown site being a lake "in our eastern desert"
can be harmonized with the "north" line if we speculate that beyond
the "top" (or "western") edge of the map that Cornelius drew, there is
ANOTHER DESERT, further away from the coast of the Ocean, a desert
which--in relation to the coastal "Forbidden Zone"--would be a
"western" desert... which would make the "Forbidden Zone" their
"eastern desert". It seems that Zaius is taking this "eastern desert"
bit from Zira's written affidavit--and she should have known that IF
there were also a "western desert" off-the-map, and that IF it too had
a lake in it, then she might need to CLARIFY that Taylor's alleged
spaceship landed in "an inland sea" that is in (not the western
desert, but in) the "eastern desert".
Either we throw up our hands and chalk up these supposedly divergent
details as "flubs", or we use deductive logic to figure out how to
have our cake and eat it, too... by considering BOTH details as
accurate, and figuring out logically how that can be so. My
explanation "unflubs" it. James must assume that Cornelius--who drew
the Map in the first place--could make a stupid mistake and tell Brent
that Taylor was "deep" into the Forbidden Zone, "towards the North" of
Ape City--when he must have known that it was "towards the East" (if
James' opinion is right). I don't think that a mapmaker would make
such a bone-headed mistake, especially since he's trying to assist
Brent in trying to find Taylor; it wouldn't help Brent much if he were
to head Northward if Taylor was actually East of them!

Patrick Michael Tilton
EARTH-TIME 4-14-2002

Hello,

I found a link to this group on a website devoted to the PotA TV
series and it looked like it might be fun. I'm a lifelong fan of the
Apes movies and series and love yakkin' about them when the
opportunity arises.

Best,

-- Dayton Ward

Welcome to the group Dayton.

--- In pota@y..., "daytonkc" <dwardkc@a...> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I found a link to this group on a website devoted to the PotA TV
> series and it looked like it might be fun. I'm a lifelong fan of
the
> Apes movies and series and love yakkin' about them when the
> opportunity arises.
>
> Best,
>
> -- Dayton Ward

You're trying to "unflub" something thats not even a real flub. I
think you just like sitting around making up these conveluted
scenarios and acting all superior to everyone else.


--- In pota@y..., "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@y...>
wrote:

> *** So I coined a word! Do you know how many words Shakespeare

coined

> that are now in common use? Take the word "flub" (which, for all I
> know, isn't in the dictionary either, but IS used all the time in
> regards to "mistakes" made in a film) and apply a negating prefix
> (like "un-"), and you get "unflub". I could have chosen "de-flub",
> which would have worked just as well (as in "decontaminate", etc.).

My

> point about the word "james..." used ("conveluted") is that it is
> atrociously misspelled--and he continued to misspell it even after

he

> was shown the correct spelling (ditto for his "Zauis">"Zaius"

gaffe).

>
> What I "really believe" is true in regards to Cornelius' map is

that

> Cornelius held the WEST border of the map in his left hand when he
> held it up, with NORTH being towards the right side (where Taylor,
> standing there on the right, could use his hand to indicate the
> journey he and Dodge and Landon took from the Lake to the Hunt

area).

> Cornelius' map is NOT a map of the entire frigging world; it's not

a

> map of the "North American" continent either. It's a map of the
> Ape-inhabited region and its northern neighbor--the "Forbidden

Zone",

> which presumably had NOT been officially mapped (since it was
> forbidden to go there)... but which HAD been mapped by Cornelius in
> the previous year when he had "exceeded his [travel permit] orders"
> and done a mapping survey. Remember, Cornelius must have been the

one

> to draw this map, since we know that HE had been to the Forbidden

Zone

> in general AND (in addition to the coastal "Cave" site) had been in
> the "Dead Lake" area in specific ("The terrain around that lake is
> poisonous" he says; he couldn't know that unless he had been

there).

> In ESCAPE he tells Lewis Dixon that not only can he read a map,

but "I

> can even draw one".
> His line to Brent ("towards the North") clinches it for me that the
> coastline of the Ocean extends NORTHWARD. A mapmaker (like

Cornelius)

> would NOT be prone to making that kind of stupid mistake, saying

that

> an EAST-BOUND horserider is travelling "towards the North". Zaius'
> line about the splashdown site being a lake "in our eastern desert"
> can be harmonized with the "north" line if we speculate that beyond
> the "top" (or "western") edge of the map that Cornelius drew, there

is

> ANOTHER DESERT, further away from the coast of the Ocean, a desert
> which--in relation to the coastal "Forbidden Zone"--would be a
> "western" desert... which would make the "Forbidden Zone" their
> "eastern desert". It seems that Zaius is taking this "eastern

desert"

> bit from Zira's written affidavit--and she should have known that

IF

> there were also a "western desert" off-the-map, and that IF it too

had

> a lake in it, then she might need to CLARIFY that Taylor's alleged
> spaceship landed in "an inland sea" that is in (not the western
> desert, but in) the "eastern desert".
> Either we throw up our hands and chalk up these supposedly

divergent

> details as "flubs", or we use deductive logic to figure out how to
> have our cake and eat it, too... by considering BOTH details as
> accurate, and figuring out logically how that can be so. My
> explanation "unflubs" it. James must assume that Cornelius--who

drew

> the Map in the first place--could make a stupid mistake and tell

Brent

> that Taylor was "deep" into the Forbidden Zone, "towards the North"

of

> Ape City--when he must have known that it was "towards the East"

(if

> James' opinion is right). I don't think that a mapmaker would make
> such a bone-headed mistake, especially since he's trying to assist
> Brent in trying to find Taylor; it wouldn't help Brent much if he

were

> to head Northward if Taylor was actually East of them!
>
> Patrick Michael Tilton
> EARTH-TIME 4-14-2002

--- In pota@y..., "james611102" <JamesA1102@a...> wrote:

> I didn't think you took Beneath that seriously, Rory. The film has

so many mistakes, from the date meter to Zaius refer to both Cornelius
and Zira as Psychologists when Cornelius was an Archaeologist. Maybe
he got another degree between films.

***You noticed that too? I think that Cornelius--like many
academically-minded types--had either a double major (Archaeology and
Psychology) or a major in Archaeology and a minor in Psychology; only
after the events of PLANET, when a trouble-maker like Cornelius would
be forbidden to practise archaeology anymore, would he have to take up
a new career. Why not a career in his other major (or his minor),
Psychology? Chances are that he first met Zira when they went to the
simian equivalent of a College or University; maybe Cornelius took up
studies in Psych when he realized that he could spend a lot more time
with that hottie Zira if he were in some of the same classes she was
taking for her doctoral degree.
And how convenient it would be, then, to have a fall-back option,
practising or teaching Psychology, now that the Academy has rendered
him "persona non grata" in the Archaeological community.
Also, Zaius might be emphasizing Cornelius' status as a psychologist
as a reminder that his archaeological "heresies" had gotten him into a
lot of trouble already, and perhaps had something to do with the
current "grave crisis" faced by the Ape community--the disappearance
of 11 of Ursus' 12 scouts in the Forbidden Zone, and the impending
invasion.

Patrick Michael Tilton
EARTH-TIME 4-14-2002

--- In pota@y..., "Alan Maxwell" <alan@a...> wrote:

> "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:
>*** "... all the ruins of cities they encounter..." are in

California, the "ruins" being of the two Bay Area cities of Oakland
("The Legacy") and San Francisco ("The Trap").

But if you want to be really literal in studying all the minor
details - they use the same establishing shot of the same ruins in
both episodes, so the cities must be the same one. Another "flub" for
your thesis!

Alan

*** Cut 'em some slack, Alan! Their budget didn't allow them to
construct another simian city ("Central City" this time) just to
provide one single establishing shot. Is this, too, a "flub"? It's not
one that matters any to me, let's put it that way.
Hell, in that godawful flick "The Ice Pirates" they re-use stock
footage of the domed city from "Logan's Run", but that don't mean it
HAS to be the same place!

Patrick

Attachments :

OK if you look here, you can see the Cornelius has the map at the same orientation as in Planet. The line denoting the Forbidden Zone cutting it down the center from top to bottom. And were is Cornelius pointing to a area that's towards the northeast or "toward's the north" of Ape City. Remember the word towards is not meant to be so exact.

to•ward or to•wards \at a point in the direction of : near <a cottage somewhere up toward the lake>
(C)1997, 1996 Zane Publishing, Inc. All rights reserved

--- In pota@y..., JamesA1102@a... wrote:

> OK if you look here, you can see [that] Cornelius has the map at the

same orientation as in Planet. The line denoting the Forbidden Zone
cutting it down the center from top to bottom. And w[h]ere is
Cornelius pointing to[?] a[n] area that's towards the northeast or
"toward's the north" of Ape City. Remember the word towards is not
meant to be so exact.

*** Lucius asks Taylor, "Where will you go?"
Taylor replies, "Follow the shoreline... and my nose."
Cornelius tells Brent that Taylor was heading "deep" into the
Forbidden Zone, "between the Lake and the Sea".
Look at the Map: Taylor's hand indicates the location of the Lake his
ship landed in--the "inland sea" (as Zaius refers to it) with the
"convoluted" shoreline. The Ocean/Sea coastline is the fairly straight
line below the Lake, with one river emptying into the Ocean near the
dashed line. Your added red arrow does not show Taylor and Nova's path
away from the Cave site--they were following the ocean's shoreline.
That stretch of beach IS (as Cornelius says) between the Lake and the
Sea. It is the very SHORE of the Sea. That chunk of land between the
Lake and the Sea (and bordered on the left by the river) is a
peninsula separated from the other land area of the Forbidden
Zone--that part through which Taylor's crew traveled on foot from the
"flag"/raft site to the Hunt area. It is this peninsula that Cornelius
MUST be referring to as the part of the Forbidden Zone where they last
saw Taylor and his direction of travel.
Furthermore, Cornelius' hand is hovering over the map as he shows it
to Brent; we never see a shot of Cornelius' index finger pointing out
the exact location of his Cave site, or of Taylor's obvious direction
of movement away from that Cave to the right on the map.
The direction that you think is "northeast" is nowhere near the Ocean
shoreline at the bottom of the map, so it can NOT be Taylor's
direction of travel (you DO remember all that water on Taylor &
Nova's right as they approached the Statue of Liberty, now, don't
you?). Cornelius is NOT pointing, since his entire hand is just
hovering over the map--he's probably just indicating the entire
Forbidden Zone area, since it is THAT side of the dashed line that
he's talking about ("...deep into the territory we call..." the
Forbidden Zone).
The word "towards" IS an exact term; I don't know where you got the
idea that it somehow isn't. As you read these postings on this site, I
assume your eyes are directed "towards" the monitor screen, and not up
or to the side, or at your navel or 180 degrees around behind you.

Patrick Michael Tilton
EARTH-TIME 4-14-2002

.html I can't believe how this discussion about the map just keeps going on and on.   I don't see how this ever gets settled to anyone's satisfaction.   I've got another area to speculate about:  What level of technology did the apes have in PLANET?  They could make guns, nice clothes, delicate surgical instruments, and had high pressure hoses, yet they seemed to have no electricity, and rode around on horses.  What's up with that?  The gorillas wore leather, but we saw no cows?  And where was their source of illumination at night?  In Dr. Zaius' office that night he had Taylor brought to him, his office seemed pretty well lit, yet there were no candles!  What are we to make of it?  Did the apes' rooms have windows in the ceilings that simply let in that 'strange luminosity' from the night sky outside?  And what about these ape circuses that Lucius mentions?  What would an ape circus be like?  Did they have a big tent?  Were there acrobatic apes?  Clown apes?  Did a little wagon ride out into the ring towed by a pony and did an unusally large amount of ape clowns emerge from the wagon that looked too small to hold them all?   Was there an ape 'human tamer' that cracked a whip to make the humans jump from stand to stand and end up by forming a human pyramid?  Did they have cotton candy for the kid apes, and how did the apes learn how to make cotton candy.  And speaking of cotton... They must have grown cotton to make their clothes.  Who picked the cotton?  Men?  What would Eric Greene make of that?  But maybe the clothes were made of hemp.  Maybe the apes were hemp growers as well as corn growers?   Will these questions never end?

Patrick, I know you must have answers to these seemingly hopeless enigmas of the planet of the apes.

-- Rory<.html

I'd always assumed that apes had achieved a level of advancement
equal to the mid-19th century. Of course in some areas they may have
advanced even further and not as far in others.
I'm sure now Patrick will tell us all how wrong I am and correct all
my misspelled words.

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> I can't believe how this discussion about the map just keeps going
on and on.
> I don't see how this ever gets settled to anyone's
satisfaction. I've got
> another area to speculate about: What level of technology did the
apes have
> in PLANET? They could make guns, nice clothes, delicate surgical
> instruments, and had high pressure hoses, yet they seemed to have
no
> electricity, and rode around on horses. What's up with that? The
gorillas
> wore leather, but we saw no cows? And where was their source of
illumination
> at night? In Dr. Zaius' office that night he had Taylor brought to
him, his
> office seemed pretty well lit, yet there were no candles! What are
we to
> make of it? Did the apes' rooms have windows in the ceilings that
simply let
> in that 'strange luminosity' from the night sky outside? And what
about
> these ape circuses that Lucius mentions? What would an ape circus
be like?
> Did they have a big tent? Were there acrobatic apes? Clown apes?
Did a
> little wagon ride out into the ring towed by a pony and did an
unusally large
> amount of ape clowns emerge from the wagon that looked too small to
hold them
> all? Was there an ape 'human tamer' that cracked a whip to make
the humans
> jump from stand to stand and end up by forming a human pyramid?
Did they
> have cotton candy for the kid apes, and how did the apes learn how
to make
> cotton candy. And speaking of cotton... They must have grown
cotton to make
> their clothes. Who picked the cotton? Men? What would Eric
Greene make of
> that? But maybe the clothes were made of hemp. Maybe the apes
were hemp
> growers as well as corn growers? Will these questions never end?
>
> Patrick, I know you must have answers to these seemingly hopeless
enigmas of
> the planet of the apes.
>
> -- Rory

.html Hi Dayton,

Welcome aboard!  Some good stuff going on here of late.  Especially all of the image comparisons to ape maps and New York maps.  Fun stuff!

Enjoy!

Brian Penikas
Keeper of the Glue & Faith for APEMANIA.COM
 
 

daytonkc wrote:

Hello,

I found a link to this group on a website devoted to the PotA TV
series and it looked like it might be fun.  I'm a lifelong fan of the
Apes movies and series and love yakkin' about them when the
opportunity arises.

Best,

-- Dayton Ward

------------------------ ---------------------~-->
Buy Stock for $4
and no minimums.
FREE Money 2002.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/ySSFAA/9_IolB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~->
 
 

<.html

--- In pota@y..., "james611102" <JamesA1102@a...> wrote:

> I'd always assumed that apes had achieved a level of advancement
> equal to the mid-19th century. Of course in some areas they may have
> advanced even further and not as far in others.
> I'm sure now Patrick will tell us all how wrong I am and correct all
> my misspelled words.

*** This is my last posting for today, since I must go to the daily
grind of my job in a moment... but let me finally congratulate
"james611102" on a contribution that has absolutely no misspelt words!
I'm not even going to quibble about the missing comma after the word
"course".
And--will wonders never cease?--we're actually in complete agreement
as to the "mid-19th century" level of simian advancement! Amazing!

I don't blame you (Rory) for getting sick and tired of the "map"
debate--I've posted what will probably be my last entry on it. As for
the circus stuff you're wondering about, well, quite frankly I'm not
all that worked up about it. During the roughly 2 hours of screen time
of PLANET, we only get to see a limited amount of the Ape culture.
Lucius' mention of "a circus" only shows that this satirical simian
culture shares yet one more thing in common with our own world.

Before I log off for now, here's a thought: what sort of material are
the Sacred Scrolls inscribed upon? If they're anything like the
scrolls of antiquity, then they could be either papyrus or vellum. But
I don't recall seeing any sheep around "Ape City"... so could it be
that the Scroll which Cornelius recites from at the end of PLANET be
made from... HUMAN SKIN?! After target practice, what happens to the
bodies of the slaughtered humans? Wouldn't the apes use their light-
colored skin as scroll-parchment material? After all, humans are only
animals to them.

Chew on that for awhile, folks. Gotta go.

Patrick Michael Tilton
EARTH-TIME 4-14-2002

> --- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> > I can't believe how this discussion about the map just keeps going
> on and on.
> > I don't see how this ever gets settled to anyone's
> satisfaction. I've got
> > another area to speculate about: What level of technology did the
> apes have
> > in PLANET? They could make guns, nice clothes, delicate surgical
> > instruments, and had high pressure hoses, yet they seemed to have
> no
> > electricity, and rode around on horses. What's up with that? The
> gorillas
> > wore leather, but we saw no cows? And where was their source of
> illumination
> > at night? In Dr. Zaius' office that night he had Taylor brought to
> him, his
> > office seemed pretty well lit, yet there were no candles! What are
> we to
> > make of it? Did the apes' rooms have windows in the ceilings that
> simply let
> > in that 'strange luminosity' from the night sky outside? And what
> about
> > these ape circuses that Lucius mentions? What would an ape circus
> be like?
> > Did they have a big tent? Were there acrobatic apes? Clown apes?
> Did a
> > little wagon ride out into the ring towed by a pony and did an
> unusally large
> > amount of ape clowns emerge from the wagon that looked too small to
> hold them
> > all? Was there an ape 'human tamer' that cracked a whip to make
> the humans
> > jump from stand to stand and end up by forming a human pyramid?
> Did they
> > have cotton candy for the kid apes, and how did the apes learn how
> to make
> > cotton candy. And speaking of cotton... They must have grown
> cotton to make
> > their clothes. Who picked the cotton? Men? What would Eric
> Greene make of
> > that? But maybe the clothes were made of hemp. Maybe the apes
> were hemp
> > growers as well as corn growers? Will these questions never end?
> >
> > Patrick, I know you must have answers to these seemingly hopeless
> enigmas of
> > the planet of the apes.
> >
> > -- Rory

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 4:01 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Planet of the Patricks

I'm sure a genius like you can tell me how the Twilight Zone is
relevant a POTA discussion.

That's a an easy one.
Both written by Rod Serling.
I haven't checked, but I'm sure
that someone else beat me to that connection.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

Or the one with the astronauts crashed on a desert planet. Then at
the end the last living one goes over a hill and find telephone polls
and a road. I always thought that was the basis for the ending of
Planet.

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> Yeah, and did you see the "Twilight Zone" episode that finds
Roddy on exhibit in a zoo? "People Are Alike All over".
Quick. - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: LordTZer0@A...
> To: pota@y...
> Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 4:01 AM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Planet of the Patricks
>
>
>
>
> I'm sure a genius like you can tell me how the Twilight Zone is
> relevant a POTA discussion.
>
>
> That's a an easy one.
> Both written by Rod Serling.
> I haven't checked, but I'm sure
> that someone else beat me to that connection.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.

Hey, did anyone else get an e-mail labeled "apehaskilledape"? I did and it
had a virus. So watch it. I'd hate to think one of our own did it. Oh, and
Soylent Green is people! Quick. - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 9:57 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Map Descriptiion


> --- In pota@y..., "james611102" <JamesA1102@a...> wrote:
> > I'd always assumed that apes had achieved a level of advancement
> > equal to the mid-19th century. Of course in some areas they may have
> > advanced even further and not as far in others.
> > I'm sure now Patrick will tell us all how wrong I am and correct all
> > my misspelled words.
>
> *** This is my last posting for today, since I must go to the daily
> grind of my job in a moment... but let me finally congratulate
> "james611102" on a contribution that has absolutely no misspelt words!
> I'm not even going to quibble about the missing comma after the word
> "course".
> And--will wonders never cease?--we're actually in complete agreement
> as to the "mid-19th century" level of simian advancement! Amazing!
>
> I don't blame you (Rory) for getting sick and tired of the "map"
> debate--I've posted what will probably be my last entry on it. As for
> the circus stuff you're wondering about, well, quite frankly I'm not
> all that worked up about it. During the roughly 2 hours of screen time
> of PLANET, we only get to see a limited amount of the Ape culture.
> Lucius' mention of "a circus" only shows that this satirical simian
> culture shares yet one more thing in common with our own world.
>
> Before I log off for now, here's a thought: what sort of material are
> the Sacred Scrolls inscribed upon? If they're anything like the
> scrolls of antiquity, then they could be either papyrus or vellum. But
> I don't recall seeing any sheep around "Ape City"... so could it be
> that the Scroll which Cornelius recites from at the end of PLANET be
> made from... HUMAN SKIN?! After target practice, what happens to the
> bodies of the slaughtered humans? Wouldn't the apes use their light-
> colored skin as scroll-parchment material? After all, humans are only
> animals to them.
>
> Chew on that for awhile, folks. Gotta go.
>
> Patrick Michael Tilton
> EARTH-TIME 4-14-2002
>
>
> > --- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> > > I can't believe how this discussion about the map just keeps going
> > on and on.
> > > I don't see how this ever gets settled to anyone's
> > satisfaction. I've got
> > > another area to speculate about: What level of technology did the
> > apes have
> > > in PLANET? They could make guns, nice clothes, delicate surgical
> > > instruments, and had high pressure hoses, yet they seemed to have
> > no
> > > electricity, and rode around on horses. What's up with that? The
> > gorillas
> > > wore leather, but we saw no cows? And where was their source of
> > illumination
> > > at night? In Dr. Zaius' office that night he had Taylor brought to
> > him, his
> > > office seemed pretty well lit, yet there were no candles! What are
> > we to
> > > make of it? Did the apes' rooms have windows in the ceilings that
> > simply let
> > > in that 'strange luminosity' from the night sky outside? And what
> > about
> > > these ape circuses that Lucius mentions? What would an ape circus
> > be like?
> > > Did they have a big tent? Were there acrobatic apes? Clown apes?
> > Did a
> > > little wagon ride out into the ring towed by a pony and did an
> > unusally large
> > > amount of ape clowns emerge from the wagon that looked too small to
> > hold them
> > > all? Was there an ape 'human tamer' that cracked a whip to make
> > the humans
> > > jump from stand to stand and end up by forming a human pyramid?
> > Did they
> > > have cotton candy for the kid apes, and how did the apes learn how
> > to make
> > > cotton candy. And speaking of cotton... They must have grown
> > cotton to make
> > > their clothes. Who picked the cotton? Men? What would Eric
> > Greene make of
> > > that? But maybe the clothes were made of hemp. Maybe the apes
> > were hemp
> > > growers as well as corn growers? Will these questions never end?
> > >
> > > Patrick, I know you must have answers to these seemingly hopeless
> > enigmas of
> > > the planet of the apes.
> > >
> > > -- Rory
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Yes, that's my point. It has a VERY Rod Serling flavour about it. Knowing
this helps me deal with the flubs because I know that in a lot of Serling's
stuff you have to REALLY suspend that disbelief and let your imagination
open the doors.

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: james611102 [JamesA1102@...]
> Sent: Sunday, 14 April 2002 22:17
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Planet of the Patricks
>
>
> I've always thought of Planet as the ulitmate TW episode.
>
> --- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> >
> > > I'm sure a genius like you can tell me how the Twilight Zone is
> > > relevant a POTA discussion.
> >
> > That's a an easy one.
> > Both written by Rod Serling.
> > I haven't checked, but I'm sure
> > that someone else beat me to that connection.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:

> Yes, that's my point. It has a VERY Rod Serling flavour about it.

Knowing

> this helps me deal with the flubs because I know that in a lot of

Serling's

> stuff you have to REALLY suspend that disbelief and let your

imagination

> open the doors.
>
> Michael

Very good point!

You are really beginning to worry me Patrick.

If you can't understand why it is offensive that you have to rename my
country then there is no hope for you. How you therefore conclude that I
might "prefer to live under racist, fascist, totalitarian dictatorial rule"
from my preference to keep my county's name suggests a total lack of
rationality and reason on your behalf. While I understand this renaming has
come from fondness, please compare it to our (humans') fondness for chimps
leading to taking them away from their environments and dressing them up as
humans. Yes this was done in innocence with all good intentions but it was
not a good thing to do!

And no Patrick, actually Heaven forbid if somebody ever got elected to
office whose agenda was to rename countries "New America"! How about
calling Russia "Anti America" and calling Israel "Hates America". Anyway,
you know what I'm saying, I hope, so let's just leave it.

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@...]
> Sent: Sunday, 14 April 2002 23:14
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Hands off Australia!
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> >This is kinda what I was trying to politely suggest, but James does
> seem to make the point very subtlely (oh I hope that is a word and is
> spelled correctly - and that the sarcasm isn't lost on anyone....).
> Australia would be in big trouble without the US as our allies, but we
> do tend to kick ass in most sports that are played internationally and
> it really bruises my pride that anyone would want to claim our country
> and call it "New America". [***If there's no civilization left there
> (following all-out Nuke War), and if those few still around have been
> reduced to savagery, why shouldn't still-sophisticated people "claim"
> that non-radioactive land for themselves? It's not like they'd be
> doing it just to piss off the Aussies; they'd do it because it is
> human nature to re-fashion your environment in the "image" that one is
> accustomed to.]
> >But this comes from a guy who invents a mothership called "Earth" to
> explain a flub, so I guess it is harmless enough unless he runs for
> office.
>
> *** Heaven forbid if somebody ever got elected to office whose agenda
> was to make sense out of and then correct other people's mistakes!
>
> >Almost ironic to rename Australia, seeing as I assume the American
> nuclear weapons would have largely contributed to the conditions these
> people are living under!
>
> *** The United States (luckily) was the first nation to figure out how
> to build nuclear weapons. The Nazis and the Japanese also had nuclear
> weapon-building programs, but thanks to Allied efforts those programs
> were thwarted. Can you imagine a world where the Nazis and/or the
> Japanese (during WW2) had gotten the Bomb first? Would you prefer to
> live under racist, fascist, totalitarian dictatorial rule?
> The USA used two nukes to end World War Two, and we've never used them
> since. We used nukes to END a war that would have cost far more lives
> had they not been used. Thank Einstein & Oppenheimer & Truman &
> General Groves (etc. etc.) that the USA--and not the Nazis or
> Japanese--were the first.
> Considering that the USA--in the POTA universe--is nuked, it's fair to
> imply that OTHER countries with nuclear capabilities did THAT damage.
> Also, considering that the USA had the Alpha Omega Bomb--a bomb that
> was designed to be used as the ultimate deterrent ("Mutual Assured
> Destruction" doctrine)--and did NOT detonate it (since it ends up with
> the Mendez group, untriggered until Taylor does so at the end of
> BENEATH), suggests to me that the Nuclear War that turns the
> "paradise" of the New York City area (etc.) into the "desert" called
> "the Forbidden Zone" was instigated by a war-mongering country that
> unfortunately acquired nuclear weapons capability yet lacked the
> restraint that the USA has shown ever since 9 August 1945. Somehow,
> foreign countries launched a nuke attack against America (in my
> scenario, in 2006), and rather than follow through with the intended
> threat of detonating the Alpha Omega Bomb (the "deterrence" purpose of
> its construction) the USA "shelves" the Doomsday Bomb, and settles for
> retaliation with conventional nukes.
> What sort of "foreign threat" might exist in the POTA universe in the
> early-21st Century that is not above using nuclear weapons (as well as
> other weapons of mass destruction)? If the POTA universe has any
> similarities left with the real universe, then well-financed, radical
> Islamic terrorist groups (like Al-Qaeda) seem like a likely candidate
> for the "trigger" that sets off the Global Thermonuclear War. Or am I
> being unjustly critical of the Islam-dominated part of the world?
> [insert sarcastic tone of voice here]
>
>
> >OK Patrick, you can come and visit, screw our women (just between
> you and I most of the American soldiers in WW1 sat in Australian
> offices and did just this while our own were fighting and dying), but
> don't rename our country please.
> >
> > Michael
>
> *** Michael, if I were to win the Powerball and/or the Publishers
> Clearing House sweepstakes, then I'd love to go and visit the land
> "down under" (at the time, I'm not too thrilled with the idea of being
> a tourist in Egypt or Israel...), and if any 'Sheilas' there were
> willing, hey, I'd be honored with the welcome 'down under' (if you
> catch my drift).
> As regards your WW1 dig at American soldiers, just be glad that
> America joined the war effort on the side of the Brits/French/Aussies,
> etc.; our country didn't start that damned war (or the Second one),
> and we lost enough men there trying to help clean up the mess that
> Europe was overly prone to start. Also be glad that America didn't
> have ambitions to conquer the world (as Patton wanted to), since we
> had the means to do so when we acquired the Bomb before anybody else,
> yet we chose to allow other countries--even those we HAD conquered--to
> follow their own courses: we de-Nazified Germany and "democratized"
> Japan... and then gave the Germans and Japanese their own countries
> back, now that they were no longer bent on conquering us and had
> settled for being prosperous allies instead.
> As for my scenario involving American "scientists" who de-orbit and
> re-fashion a war-ravaged, savage Australia into their "New America",
> remember that this is meant (in part) as an explanation for that
> curious picture in Farrow's book. Had it been a picture of "Paris:
> 2503", then I would have had to suppose that somehow a group of
> technology-savvy Frenchmen had survived the War and then built a
> futuristic "Paris" in a "New France" somewhere (whether in Australia
> or somewhere else)! Would non-Americans build a futuristic city and
> give it a name that is cherished primarily by Americans? We're stuck
> with the picture being of "New York City: 2503", yet it's NOT a
> picture of the nuke-devastated ruin where Mendez's group ends up. This
> new "NYC" has to be SOMEWHERE, so why not at the antipodal
> former-Australia, whose "Cape YORK Peninsula" would make an obvious
> nomenclatural connection, if turned into an urban metropolis?
> Mike, it was my FONDNESS for Australia (which I would love to visit,
> though sadly I can't afford it right yet) that prompted me to choose
> it as the "safe haven" for the high-tech group which somehow survives
> the Nuke War and builds a new futuristic version of "NYC". It doesn't
> mean that any (let alone ALL) Australian placenames would be
> eradicated on any "New American" map; just as Native American names
> (like "Dakota", "Minnesota", etc.) still denote geographical areas
> that are now dominated by once-English colonists (and then other
> European countries' emigrees), so too would "New America" still retain
> Aussie placenames--such as the new capitol being "Washington D.C.",
> where the "D.C." stands for "District of Canberra" (one of cities that
> probably WOULD--unfortunately--suffer a nuke strike in an all-out
> thermonuclear war).
>
> Patrick Michael Tilton
> EARTH-TIME 4-14-2002
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Stop comparing yourself to Shakespeare, please!

If you want to throw stones, expect to get a few back and hope you don't
live in a glass house.

Any idiot can spell. You just press "Spell Check" on the computer.
Spelling is all about communicating and you knew exactly what James was
saying. You were just being a bitch.

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@...]
> Sent: Sunday, 14 April 2002 23:49
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Map Description
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > Patrick,
>
> Please clarify: are you trying to "unflub" (another word not in the
> dictionary) here by saying the map is sideways, or do you really
> believe it is true?
>
> > Michael
>
> *** So I coined a word! Do you know how many words Shakespeare coined
> that are now in common use? Take the word "flub" (which, for all I
> know, isn't in the dictionary either, but IS used all the time in
> regards to "mistakes" made in a film) and apply a negating prefix
> (like "un-"), and you get "unflub". I could have chosen "de-flub",
> which would have worked just as well (as in "decontaminate", etc.). My
> point about the word "james..." used ("conveluted") is that it is
> atrociously misspelled--and he continued to misspell it even after he
> was shown the correct spelling (ditto for his "Zauis">"Zaius" gaffe).
>
> What I "really believe" is true in regards to Cornelius' map is that
> Cornelius held the WEST border of the map in his left hand when he
> held it up, with NORTH being towards the right side (where Taylor,
> standing there on the right, could use his hand to indicate the
> journey he and Dodge and Landon took from the Lake to the Hunt area).
> Cornelius' map is NOT a map of the entire frigging world; it's not a
> map of the "North American" continent either. It's a map of the
> Ape-inhabited region and its northern neighbor--the "Forbidden Zone",
> which presumably had NOT been officially mapped (since it was
> forbidden to go there)... but which HAD been mapped by Cornelius in
> the previous year when he had "exceeded his [travel permit] orders"
> and done a mapping survey. Remember, Cornelius must have been the one
> to draw this map, since we know that HE had been to the Forbidden Zone
> in general AND (in addition to the coastal "Cave" site) had been in
> the "Dead Lake" area in specific ("The terrain around that lake is
> poisonous" he says; he couldn't know that unless he had been there).
> In ESCAPE he tells Lewis Dixon that not only can he read a map, but "I
> can even draw one".
> His line to Brent ("towards the North") clinches it for me that the
> coastline of the Ocean extends NORTHWARD. A mapmaker (like Cornelius)
> would NOT be prone to making that kind of stupid mistake, saying that
> an EAST-BOUND horserider is travelling "towards the North". Zaius'
> line about the splashdown site being a lake "in our eastern desert"
> can be harmonized with the "north" line if we speculate that beyond
> the "top" (or "western") edge of the map that Cornelius drew, there is
> ANOTHER DESERT, further away from the coast of the Ocean, a desert
> which--in relation to the coastal "Forbidden Zone"--would be a
> "western" desert... which would make the "Forbidden Zone" their
> "eastern desert". It seems that Zaius is taking this "eastern desert"
> bit from Zira's written affidavit--and she should have known that IF
> there were also a "western desert" off-the-map, and that IF it too had
> a lake in it, then she might need to CLARIFY that Taylor's alleged
> spaceship landed in "an inland sea" that is in (not the western
> desert, but in) the "eastern desert".
> Either we throw up our hands and chalk up these supposedly divergent
> details as "flubs", or we use deductive logic to figure out how to
> have our cake and eat it, too... by considering BOTH details as
> accurate, and figuring out logically how that can be so. My
> explanation "unflubs" it. James must assume that Cornelius--who drew
> the Map in the first place--could make a stupid mistake and tell Brent
> that Taylor was "deep" into the Forbidden Zone, "towards the North" of
> Ape City--when he must have known that it was "towards the East" (if
> James' opinion is right). I don't think that a mapmaker would make
> such a bone-headed mistake, especially since he's trying to assist
> Brent in trying to find Taylor; it wouldn't help Brent much if he were
> to head Northward if Taylor was actually East of them!
>
> Patrick Michael Tilton
> EARTH-TIME 4-14-2002
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html I can't believe how this discussion about the map just keeps going on and on.   I don't see how this ever gets settled to anyone's satisfaction.   I've got another area to speculate about:  What level of technology did the apes have in PLANET?  They could make guns, nice clothes, delicate surgical instruments, and had high pressure hoses, yet they seemed to have no electricity, and rode around on horses.  What's up with that?  The gorillas wore leather, but we saw no cows?  And where was their source of illumination at night?  In Dr. Zaius' office that night he had Taylor brought to him, his office seemed pretty well lit, yet there were no candles!  What are we to make of it?  Did the apes' rooms have windows in the ceilings that simply let in that 'strange luminosity' from the night sky outside?  And what about these ape circuses that Lucius
Patrick, I know you must have answers to these seemingly hopeless enigmas of the planet of the apes.

-- Rory
<.html

So you can spell James. Or do you just use Spell Check?

Do you actually make mistakes James? Or, when your errs are pointed out to
you, do you just poke out you tongue and say "Well you suck cause you can't
spell!".

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@...]
> Sent: Monday, 15 April 2002 2:58
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Map Descriptiion
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., "james611102" <JamesA1102@a...> wrote:
> > I'd always assumed that apes had achieved a level of advancement
> > equal to the mid-19th century. Of course in some areas they may have
> > advanced even further and not as far in others.
> > I'm sure now Patrick will tell us all how wrong I am and correct all
> > my misspelled words.
>
> *** This is my last posting for today, since I must go to the daily
> grind of my job in a moment... but let me finally congratulate
> "james611102" on a contribution that has absolutely no misspelt words!
> I'm not even going to quibble about the missing comma after the word
> "course".
> And--will wonders never cease?--we're actually in complete agreement
> as to the "mid-19th century" level of simian advancement! Amazing!
>
> I don't blame you (Rory) for getting sick and tired of the "map"
> debate--I've posted what will probably be my last entry on it. As for
> the circus stuff you're wondering about, well, quite frankly I'm not
> all that worked up about it. During the roughly 2 hours of screen time
> of PLANET, we only get to see a limited amount of the Ape culture.
> Lucius' mention of "a circus" only shows that this satirical simian
> culture shares yet one more thing in common with our own world.
>
> Before I log off for now, here's a thought: what sort of material are
> the Sacred Scrolls inscribed upon? If they're anything like the
> scrolls of antiquity, then they could be either papyrus or vellum. But
> I don't recall seeing any sheep around "Ape City"... so could it be
> that the Scroll which Cornelius recites from at the end of PLANET be
> made from... HUMAN SKIN?! After target practice, what happens to the
> bodies of the slaughtered humans? Wouldn't the apes use their light-
> colored skin as scroll-parchment material? After all, humans are only
> animals to them.
>
> Chew on that for awhile, folks. Gotta go.
>
> Patrick Michael Tilton
> EARTH-TIME 4-14-2002
>
>
> > --- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> > > I can't believe how this discussion about the map just keeps going
> > on and on.
> > > I don't see how this ever gets settled to anyone's
> > satisfaction. I've got
> > > another area to speculate about: What level of technology did the
> > apes have
> > > in PLANET? They could make guns, nice clothes, delicate surgical
> > > instruments, and had high pressure hoses, yet they seemed to have
> > no
> > > electricity, and rode around on horses. What's up with that? The
> > gorillas
> > > wore leather, but we saw no cows? And where was their source of
> > illumination
> > > at night? In Dr. Zaius' office that night he had Taylor brought to
> > him, his
> > > office seemed pretty well lit, yet there were no candles! What are
> > we to
> > > make of it? Did the apes' rooms have windows in the ceilings that
> > simply let
> > > in that 'strange luminosity' from the night sky outside? And what
> > about
> > > these ape circuses that Lucius mentions? What would an ape circus
> > be like?
> > > Did they have a big tent? Were there acrobatic apes? Clown apes?
> > Did a
> > > little wagon ride out into the ring towed by a pony and did an
> > unusally large
> > > amount of ape clowns emerge from the wagon that looked too small to
> > hold them
> > > all? Was there an ape 'human tamer' that cracked a whip to make
> > the humans
> > > jump from stand to stand and end up by forming a human pyramid?
> > Did they
> > > have cotton candy for the kid apes, and how did the apes learn how
> > to make
> > > cotton candy. And speaking of cotton... They must have grown
> > cotton to make
> > > their clothes. Who picked the cotton? Men? What would Eric
> > Greene make of
> > > that? But maybe the clothes were made of hemp. Maybe the apes
> > were hemp
> > > growers as well as corn growers? Will these questions never end?
> > >
> > > Patrick, I know you must have answers to these seemingly hopeless
> > enigmas of
> > > the planet of the apes.
> > >
> > > -- Rory
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 4:01 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Planet of the Patricks

I'm sure a genius like you can tell me how the Twilight Zone is
relevant a POTA discussion.

That's a an easy one.
Both written by Rod Serling.
I haven't checked, but I'm sure
that someone else beat me to that connection.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

And what about Talking Tina? You know, the doll in the cave at the end of
"Planet"? That would have been a good twist to have it say "My name is
Talking Tina and I'm going to kill you" rather than "Mama"!

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: james611102 [JamesA1102@...]
> Sent: Monday, 15 April 2002 3:46
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Planet of the Patricks
>
>
> Or the one with the astronauts crashed on a desert planet. Then at
> the end the last living one goes over a hill and find telephone polls
> and a road. I always thought that was the basis for the ending of
> Planet.
>
> --- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> > Yeah, and did you see the "Twilight Zone" episode that finds
> Roddy on exhibit in a zoo? "People Are Alike All over".
> Quick. - - Jeff
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: LordTZer0@A...
> > To: pota@y...
> > Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 4:01 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Planet of the Patricks
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm sure a genius like you can tell me how the Twilight Zone is
> > relevant a POTA discussion.
> >
> >
> > That's a an easy one.
> > Both written by Rod Serling.
> > I haven't checked, but I'm sure
> > that someone else beat me to that connection.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Thanks James. Please spell it as "POYNT" from now on because I am much like
Shakespeare in many ways (ie I use a writing tool).

Mick (Shakespeare) Dundee

PS When I lived in the US pre - Dundee, I had a hell of a time explaining my
name "Mick". Everyone thought I was saying "Mark" and asking for "Bees",
not "Beers".

> -----Original Message-----
> From: james611102 [JamesA1102@...]
> Sent: Monday, 15 April 2002 7:04
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Serling's Influence
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > Yes, that's my point. It has a VERY Rod Serling flavour about it.
> Knowing
> > this helps me deal with the flubs because I know that in a lot of
> Serling's
> > stuff you have to REALLY suspend that disbelief and let your
> imagination
> > open the doors.
> >
> > Michael
>
>
> Very good point!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

What are some other possibly influential "Zone" episodes?

Also, what are some more that illustrate the total unbelievability but still
give a spooky atmosphere?

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: james611102 [JamesA1102@...]
> Sent: Monday, 15 April 2002 7:04
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Serling's Influence
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > Yes, that's my point. It has a VERY Rod Serling flavour about it.
> Knowing
> > this helps me deal with the flubs because I know that in a lot of
> Serling's
> > stuff you have to REALLY suspend that disbelief and let your
> imagination
> > open the doors.
> >
> > Michael
>
>
> Very good point!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html <.html

"patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...> wrote:

> *** Cut 'em some slack, Alan! Their budget didn't allow them to
> construct another simian city ("Central City" this time) just to
> provide one single establishing shot.

It wasn't the simian city I was talking about - it was the ruins of the
human city. Same ruins, but they're supposed to represent both Oakland and
San Francisco.

> Is this, too, a "flub"? It's not
> one that matters any to me, let's put it that way.
> Hell, in that godawful flick "The Ice Pirates" they re-use stock
> footage of the domed city from "Logan's Run", but that don't mean it
> HAS to be the same place!

And that's my point. They use the same ruins simply because of budgetary
constrictions. If they'd had the money I'm sure they would have had Alan and
Pete stumbling across the ruins of the Golden Gate Bridge or something but
since they didn't, we have to make do with the "New York 2503" picture. The
picture is about as significant as the previously mentioned ruins - the
point is merely to illustrate that we are on Earth, nothing more.

As interesting as it can be sometimes to try and consolidate the TV
series with the films, the two simply don't mesh, and I don't believe for
one moment that the writers ever intended the series to take place in the
same continuity.

The TV series and the film series are two entirely different universes,
however much some fans would like it to be otherwise. (It's always the way -
look at any other TV series based on a film and they are nearly always based
on the film but not a direct spin off as such - Logan's Run, Alien Nation,
etc.)

Alan

On Sunday, April 14, 2002, at 04:59 PM, Michael Whitty wrote:

> VISION
>
> 8mm
>
> View Master
>
> Video
>
> DVD
>
> This will obviously expand as more is found.

Are you only interested in stuff that was available to the general
public, or every format that was produced?

I have the first four episodes of Return to the Planet of the Apes on
16mm film. Apparently, that's how they were supplied to some (most?) of
the local television stations. If you can find them and afford them, all
of the movies can be obtained in 35mm format.

ABMAC

>From: "daytonkc" <dwardkc@...>
>Subject: New to the group
>I found a link to this group on a website devoted to the PotA TV
>series and it looked like it might be fun. I'm a lifelong fan of the
>Apes movies and series and love yakkin' about them when the
>opportunity arises.
>Best,
>-- Dayton Ward

Dayton! Long time, no speak, man -- how've you been? :) Small world...

Rich Handley

No I can't spell. I have dyslexia and it makes things hard sometimes.
I use spell check when possible. But it doesn't seem to work when I
post directly on to the board.

--- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> So you can spell James. Or do you just use Spell Check?
>
> Do you actually make mistakes James? Or, when your errs are
pointed out to
> you, do you just poke out you tongue and say "Well you suck cause
you can't
> spell!".
>
> Michael
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@y...]
> > Sent: Monday, 15 April 2002 2:58
> > To: pota@y...
> > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Map Descriptiion
> >
> >
> > --- In pota@y..., "james611102" <JamesA1102@a...> wrote:
> > > I'd always assumed that apes had achieved a level of advancement
> > > equal to the mid-19th century. Of course in some areas they may
have
> > > advanced even further and not as far in others.
> > > I'm sure now Patrick will tell us all how wrong I am and
correct all
> > > my misspelled words.
> >
> > *** This is my last posting for today, since I must go to the
daily
> > grind of my job in a moment... but let me finally congratulate
> > "james611102" on a contribution that has absolutely no misspelt
words!
> > I'm not even going to quibble about the missing comma after the
word
> > "course".
> > And--will wonders never cease?--we're actually in complete
agreement
> > as to the "mid-19th century" level of simian advancement! Amazing!
> >
> > I don't blame you (Rory) for getting sick and tired of the "map"
> > debate--I've posted what will probably be my last entry on it. As
for
> > the circus stuff you're wondering about, well, quite frankly I'm
not
> > all that worked up about it. During the roughly 2 hours of screen
time
> > of PLANET, we only get to see a limited amount of the Ape culture.
> > Lucius' mention of "a circus" only shows that this satirical
simian
> > culture shares yet one more thing in common with our own world.
> >
> > Before I log off for now, here's a thought: what sort of material
are
> > the Sacred Scrolls inscribed upon? If they're anything like the
> > scrolls of antiquity, then they could be either papyrus or
vellum. But
> > I don't recall seeing any sheep around "Ape City"... so could it
be
> > that the Scroll which Cornelius recites from at the end of PLANET
be
> > made from... HUMAN SKIN?! After target practice, what happens to
the
> > bodies of the slaughtered humans? Wouldn't the apes use their
light-
> > colored skin as scroll-parchment material? After all, humans are
only
> > animals to them.
> >
> > Chew on that for awhile, folks. Gotta go.
> >
> > Patrick Michael Tilton
> > EARTH-TIME 4-14-2002
> >
> >
> > > --- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> > > > I can't believe how this discussion about the map just keeps
going
> > > on and on.
> > > > I don't see how this ever gets settled to anyone's
> > > satisfaction. I've got
> > > > another area to speculate about: What level of technology
did the
> > > apes have
> > > > in PLANET? They could make guns, nice clothes, delicate
surgical
> > > > instruments, and had high pressure hoses, yet they seemed to
have
> > > no
> > > > electricity, and rode around on horses. What's up with
that? The
> > > gorillas
> > > > wore leather, but we saw no cows? And where was their source
of
> > > illumination
> > > > at night? In Dr. Zaius' office that night he had Taylor
brought to
> > > him, his
> > > > office seemed pretty well lit, yet there were no candles!
What are
> > > we to
> > > > make of it? Did the apes' rooms have windows in the ceilings
that
> > > simply let
> > > > in that 'strange luminosity' from the night sky outside? And
what
> > > about
> > > > these ape circuses that Lucius mentions? What would an ape
circus
> > > be like?
> > > > Did they have a big tent? Were there acrobatic apes? Clown
apes?
> > > Did a
> > > > little wagon ride out into the ring towed by a pony and did an
> > > unusally large
> > > > amount of ape clowns emerge from the wagon that looked too
small to
> > > hold them
> > > > all? Was there an ape 'human tamer' that cracked a whip to
make
> > > the humans
> > > > jump from stand to stand and end up by forming a human
pyramid?
> > > Did they
> > > > have cotton candy for the kid apes, and how did the apes
learn how
> > > to make
> > > > cotton candy. And speaking of cotton... They must have grown
> > > cotton to make
> > > > their clothes. Who picked the cotton? Men? What would Eric
> > > Greene make of
> > > > that? But maybe the clothes were made of hemp. Maybe the
apes
> > > were hemp
> > > > growers as well as corn growers? Will these questions never
end?
> > > >
> > > > Patrick, I know you must have answers to these seemingly
hopeless
> > > enigmas of
> > > > the planet of the apes.
> > > >
> > > > -- Rory
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >
> >

--- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:

> PS When I lived in the US pre - Dundee, I had a hell of a time

explaining my

> name "Mick". Everyone thought I was saying "Mark" and asking

for "Bees",

> not "Beers".

You must not of met any Irish people here. Mick is a common nickname
amoug them.

.html

I've always thought of Planet as the ulitmate TW episode.

Well, Serling did write for Kim Hunter before.
Playhouse 90, Requiem For A Heavyweight.

<.html

Good points all Pat!
That goes double for me.
If you don't like they way the
US is running the show, Mike,
then who would get your vote for
World Superpower, eh? France?

Hey James, what software do you use to make these, screen captures etc . . .?

.html

But maybe the clothes were made of hemp.  Maybe the apes were hemp growers as well as corn growers?   Will these questions never end?

Not if you don't lay off the hemp for a while.

<.html

Rich Handley said:

<<Dayton! Long time, no speak, man -- how've you been? :) Small world...>>

Gettin' by. You? :D

-- Dayton
http://members.aol.com/dwardkc/dwmain.htm

Oh Patrick, that's icky! It seems to me the apes mostly have a society
equivalent to the Ancient Greek/Ancient Roman era. Some modern conviences
like the hoses; Eric Greene feels the hoses were added based on the hosing
down of civil rights protesters in the '60's, if just subconsciously (what a
hoser!). It seems unbelievable in the otherwise primitive society (they
coulda just had buckets to clean the cages). But the old standby is, who
knows what info survived from the humans. I see their society as a
hodgepodge of whatever info survived plus their making the rest up as they
go along. But the names are obviously a play on Ancient Times, I assume
that's what the writers were playing on. The word "circus" could be one of
those things that survived. Etc. - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2002 9:57 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Map Descriptiion


> --- In pota@y..., "james611102" <JamesA1102@a...> wrote:
> > I'd always assumed that apes had achieved a level of advancement
> > equal to the mid-19th century. Of course in some areas they may have
> > advanced even further and not as far in others.
> > I'm sure now Patrick will tell us all how wrong I am and correct all
> > my misspelled words.
>
> *** This is my last posting for today, since I must go to the daily
> grind of my job in a moment... but let me finally congratulate
> "james611102" on a contribution that has absolutely no misspelt words!
> I'm not even going to quibble about the missing comma after the word
> "course".
> And--will wonders never cease?--we're actually in complete agreement
> as to the "mid-19th century" level of simian advancement! Amazing!
>
> I don't blame you (Rory) for getting sick and tired of the "map"
> debate--I've posted what will probably be my last entry on it. As for
> the circus stuff you're wondering about, well, quite frankly I'm not
> all that worked up about it. During the roughly 2 hours of screen time
> of PLANET, we only get to see a limited amount of the Ape culture.
> Lucius' mention of "a circus" only shows that this satirical simian
> culture shares yet one more thing in common with our own world.
>
> Before I log off for now, here's a thought: what sort of material are
> the Sacred Scrolls inscribed upon? If they're anything like the
> scrolls of antiquity, then they could be either papyrus or vellum. But
> I don't recall seeing any sheep around "Ape City"... so could it be
> that the Scroll which Cornelius recites from at the end of PLANET be
> made from... HUMAN SKIN?! After target practice, what happens to the
> bodies of the slaughtered humans? Wouldn't the apes use their light-
> colored skin as scroll-parchment material? After all, humans are only
> animals to them.
>
> Chew on that for awhile, folks. Gotta go.
>
> Patrick Michael Tilton
> EARTH-TIME 4-14-2002
>
>
> > --- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> > > I can't believe how this discussion about the map just keeps going
> > on and on.
> > > I don't see how this ever gets settled to anyone's
> > satisfaction. I've got
> > > another area to speculate about: What level of technology did the
> > apes have
> > > in PLANET? They could make guns, nice clothes, delicate surgical
> > > instruments, and had high pressure hoses, yet they seemed to have
> > no
> > > electricity, and rode around on horses. What's up with that? The
> > gorillas
> > > wore leather, but we saw no cows? And where was their source of
> > illumination
> > > at night? In Dr. Zaius' office that night he had Taylor brought to
> > him, his
> > > office seemed pretty well lit, yet there were no candles! What are
> > we to
> > > make of it? Did the apes' rooms have windows in the ceilings that
> > simply let
> > > in that 'strange luminosity' from the night sky outside? And what
> > about
> > > these ape circuses that Lucius mentions? What would an ape circus
> > be like?
> > > Did they have a big tent? Were there acrobatic apes? Clown apes?
> > Did a
> > > little wagon ride out into the ring towed by a pony and did an
> > unusally large
> > > amount of ape clowns emerge from the wagon that looked too small to
> > hold them
> > > all? Was there an ape 'human tamer' that cracked a whip to make
> > the humans
> > > jump from stand to stand and end up by forming a human pyramid?
> > Did they
> > > have cotton candy for the kid apes, and how did the apes learn how
> > to make
> > > cotton candy. And speaking of cotton... They must have grown
> > cotton to make
> > > their clothes. Who picked the cotton? Men? What would Eric
> > Greene make of
> > > that? But maybe the clothes were made of hemp. Maybe the apes
> > were hemp
> > > growers as well as corn growers? Will these questions never end?
> > >
> > > Patrick, I know you must have answers to these seemingly hopeless
> > enigmas of
> > > the planet of the apes.
> > >
> > > -- Rory
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html

That would have been a good twist to have it say "My name is
Talking Tina and I'm going to kill you" rather than "Mama"!

Ahhhhh, a Night Gallery fan!
What about that doll in Trilogy of Terror?
Now that was one mean acion figure!
Mooowaaaahhahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<.html

.html

I had a hell of a time explaining my name "Mick".  Everyone thought I was saying "Mark" and asking for "Bees", not "Beers".

Whatever you say, Mac.

<.html

.html

What are some other possibly influential "Zone" episodes?

The one with the Monkey Pig Faced People!

<.html

.html

This is where I compile a REAL collectibles database.

First section is RECORDINGS
Currently, subsections are:
SOUND
Vinyl - Talking Books/Soundtracks/Stories

So is this POTA only, or does it include other works by POTA stars.
For instance Kim Hunter recorded Dawn to Dusk and a Bag Full of Poems, as well as The Velvetine Rabbit

<.html

Welcome Dayton,

Prepare yourself for the onslaught of crap flinging!
Most of it's just good natured fun, but with spurs on.
If you feel Pat's talking crap, or his posts are too long,
just delete them. I often do. And take Rory with a grain
of salt. Many here have inside knowledge, but that doesn't
mean they're above delving into Crapology as well. Just be
prepared to bring the book and a sense of humor to the table.

.htmlIn a message dated 4/14/02 1:22:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:

Yeah, and did you see the "Twilight Zone" episode that finds Roddy on exhibit in a zoo? "People Are Alike All over". Quick.                            - - Jeff

It's on DVD with an hour long episode with Natalie Trundy!

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/14/02 1:49:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

Or the one with the astronauts crashed on a desert planet. Then at
the end the last living one goes over a hill and find telephone polls
and a road. I always thought that was the basis for the ending of
Planet.

That episode is called "I Shot an Arrow into the Sky," and it wasn't a planet, it was an asteroid, with an atmosphere (?!!!!), and the astronauts never guess they're on earth the whole time!  Yeah, I can see how it was a basis for PLANET.  Serling wasn't really a science fiction writer; he just used elements of it to get across his messages.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/14/02 1:01:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

Before I log off for now, here's a thought: what sort of material are
the Sacred Scrolls inscribed upon? If they're anything like the
scrolls of antiquity, then they could be either papyrus or vellum. But
I don't recall seeing any sheep around "Ape City"... so could it be
that the Scroll which Cornelius recites from at the end of PLANET be
made from... HUMAN SKIN?! After target practice, what happens to the
bodies of the slaughtered humans? Wouldn't the apes use their light-
colored skin as scroll-parchment material? After all, humans are only
animals to them.

Maybe they're written on paper, but after a few decades they have to be rewritten?

Human skins?   Too creepy.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/14/02 5:56:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, whitty@... writes:

What are some other possibly influential "Zone" episodes?

Also, what are some more that illustrate the total unbelievability but still
give a spooky atmosphere?

Michael

I like episode "The Howling Man" where CONQUEST's 'Hoskyns,' H.M. Wynant, has the devil locked up in his closet.  That was a good one!

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/14/02 5:59:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, whitty@... writes:

Ape circuses?  Refresh my memory please Rory!

Michael



You remember: "If he can talk he belongs in a zoo, but what will probably happen is that some money mad grown-up will put him in a circus, then we'll have to pay to see what rightly...."

"Stop making speeches and show me the order!"

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/14/02 6:26:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, abmac@... writes:

I have the first four episodes of Return to the Planet of the Apes on
16mm film. Apparently, that's how they were supplied to some (most?) of
the local television stations. If you can find them and afford them, all
of the movies can be obtained in 35mm format.

ABMAC

Buying film prints isn't so great -- the damn things fade and go pink!  Besides, with the movies you'd really want to have 'scope' prints in 35mm, and do you have any idea how much a 35mm projector with a scope lens is?  I don't want to think about it.  Get a DVD!

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/14/02 9:49:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

And take Rory with a grain of salt.

What you talkin' 'bout, T?!!!
<.html

On Sunday, April 14, 2002, at 09:09 PM, Haristas@... wrote:

> I have the first four episodes of Return to the Planet of the Apes on
> 16mm film. Apparently, that's how they were supplied to some (most?) of
> the local television stations. If you can find them and afford them, all
> of the movies can be obtained in 35mm format.
>
> ABMAC
>
>
>
>
> Buying film prints isn't so great -- the damn things fade and go pink!
> Besides, with the movies you'd really want to have 'scope' prints in
> 35mm, and do you have any idea how much a 35mm projector with a scope
> lens is? I don't want to think about it. Get a DVD!
>
> -- Rory

If I bought the 35mm prints, I'd never run them. I have the VHS tapes,
the laserdiscs and the DVDs and they can all be replaced easily if
they're damaged. I'd love to have the cartoons on DVD, but I doubt it
will ever happen.

ABMAC

.htmlIn a message dated 4/14/02 6:30:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, whitty@... writes:

You are really beginning to worry me Patrick.

You're just beginning to worry?!!!    Boy, you're slow, Mick!

-- Rory<.html

<snicker> :o)

http://www.pseudodictionary.com/unflub

 

.html

What you talkin' 'bout, T?!!!

You have a tendency to be over the top.
Not that I don't.  That's just how I can tell.<.html

.html

I'd love to have the cartoons on DVD, but I doubt it
will ever happen.

I wouldn't say that.  If Alex can put all those Ape things on DVD there's no reason the cartoons can be put on them as well.  I'd be interested in those myself.  What about it Alex?

<.html

On Sunday, April 14, 2002, at 11:01 PM, LordTZer0@... wrote:

> I'd love to have the cartoons on DVD, but I doubt it
> will ever happen.
>
>
>
> I wouldn't say that. If Alex can put all those Ape things on DVD
> there's no reason the cartoons can be put on them as well. I'd be
> interested in those myself. What about it Alex?

Ah, yes. I had forgotten about Magic Alex. Hope springs eternal.

ABMAC

The Mediamatics DVD Player. Their website is www.mediamatics.com.

--- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:
>
> Hey James, what software do you use to make these, screen captures
etc . . .?

Hey all

As I explained to James privately, this email was actually addressed to
Patrick but I accidentally inserted James' name instead (and spelled
maturity incoeectly).

Strangely enough this seems to enhance the point I was trying to make.

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: james611102 [JamesA1102@...]
> Sent: Monday, 15 April 2002 9:40
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Lack of intellectual maturiry
>
>
> No I can't spell. I have dyslexia and it makes things hard sometimes.
> I use spell check when possible. But it doesn't seem to work when I
> post directly on to the board.
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > So you can spell James. Or do you just use Spell Check?
> >
> > Do you actually make mistakes James? Or, when your errs are
> pointed out to
> > you, do you just poke out you tongue and say "Well you suck cause
> you can't
> > spell!".
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@y...]
> > > Sent: Monday, 15 April 2002 2:58
> > > To: pota@y...
> > > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Map Descriptiion
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In pota@y..., "james611102" <JamesA1102@a...> wrote:
> > > > I'd always assumed that apes had achieved a level of advancement
> > > > equal to the mid-19th century. Of course in some areas they may
> have
> > > > advanced even further and not as far in others.
> > > > I'm sure now Patrick will tell us all how wrong I am and
> correct all
> > > > my misspelled words.
> > >
> > > *** This is my last posting for today, since I must go to the
> daily
> > > grind of my job in a moment... but let me finally congratulate
> > > "james611102" on a contribution that has absolutely no misspelt
> words!
> > > I'm not even going to quibble about the missing comma after the
> word
> > > "course".
> > > And--will wonders never cease?--we're actually in complete
> agreement
> > > as to the "mid-19th century" level of simian advancement! Amazing!
> > >
> > > I don't blame you (Rory) for getting sick and tired of the "map"
> > > debate--I've posted what will probably be my last entry on it. As
> for
> > > the circus stuff you're wondering about, well, quite frankly I'm
> not
> > > all that worked up about it. During the roughly 2 hours of screen
> time
> > > of PLANET, we only get to see a limited amount of the Ape culture.
> > > Lucius' mention of "a circus" only shows that this satirical
> simian
> > > culture shares yet one more thing in common with our own world.
> > >
> > > Before I log off for now, here's a thought: what sort of material
> are
> > > the Sacred Scrolls inscribed upon? If they're anything like the
> > > scrolls of antiquity, then they could be either papyrus or
> vellum. But
> > > I don't recall seeing any sheep around "Ape City"... so could it
> be
> > > that the Scroll which Cornelius recites from at the end of PLANET
> be
> > > made from... HUMAN SKIN?! After target practice, what happens to
> the
> > > bodies of the slaughtered humans? Wouldn't the apes use their
> light-
> > > colored skin as scroll-parchment material? After all, humans are
> only
> > > animals to them.
> > >
> > > Chew on that for awhile, folks. Gotta go.
> > >
> > > Patrick Michael Tilton
> > > EARTH-TIME 4-14-2002
> > >
> > >
> > > > --- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> > > > > I can't believe how this discussion about the map just keeps
> going
> > > > on and on.
> > > > > I don't see how this ever gets settled to anyone's
> > > > satisfaction. I've got
> > > > > another area to speculate about: What level of technology
> did the
> > > > apes have
> > > > > in PLANET? They could make guns, nice clothes, delicate
> surgical
> > > > > instruments, and had high pressure hoses, yet they seemed to
> have
> > > > no
> > > > > electricity, and rode around on horses. What's up with
> that? The
> > > > gorillas
> > > > > wore leather, but we saw no cows? And where was their source
> of
> > > > illumination
> > > > > at night? In Dr. Zaius' office that night he had Taylor
> brought to
> > > > him, his
> > > > > office seemed pretty well lit, yet there were no candles!
> What are
> > > > we to
> > > > > make of it? Did the apes' rooms have windows in the ceilings
> that
> > > > simply let
> > > > > in that 'strange luminosity' from the night sky outside? And
> what
> > > > about
> > > > > these ape circuses that Lucius mentions? What would an ape
> circus
> > > > be like?
> > > > > Did they have a big tent? Were there acrobatic apes? Clown
> apes?
> > > > Did a
> > > > > little wagon ride out into the ring towed by a pony and did an
> > > > unusally large
> > > > > amount of ape clowns emerge from the wagon that looked too
> small to
> > > > hold them
> > > > > all? Was there an ape 'human tamer' that cracked a whip to
> make
> > > > the humans
> > > > > jump from stand to stand and end up by forming a human
> pyramid?
> > > > Did they
> > > > > have cotton candy for the kid apes, and how did the apes
> learn how
> > > > to make
> > > > > cotton candy. And speaking of cotton... They must have grown
> > > > cotton to make
> > > > > their clothes. Who picked the cotton? Men? What would Eric
> > > > Greene make of
> > > > > that? But maybe the clothes were made of hemp. Maybe the
> apes
> > > > were hemp
> > > > > growers as well as corn growers? Will these questions never
> end?
> > > > >
> > > > > Patrick, I know you must have answers to these seemingly
> hopeless
> > > > enigmas of
> > > > > the planet of the apes.
> > > > >
> > > > > -- Rory
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Yeah I was mainly in Ohio but I met a LOT of people (though not many
Irish!).

Mickey (this is the name I ended up with!!!)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: james611102 [JamesA1102@...]
> Sent: Monday, 15 April 2002 9:43
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Serling's Influence
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > PS When I lived in the US pre - Dundee, I had a hell of a time
> explaining my
> > name "Mick". Everyone thought I was saying "Mark" and asking
> for "Bees",
> > not "Beers".
>
> You must not of met any Irish people here. Mick is a common nickname
> amoug them.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html In a message dated 4/14/02 6:26:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, abmac@... writes:

I have the first four episodes of Return to the Planet of the Apes on
16mm film. Apparently, that's how they were supplied to some (most?) of
the local television stations. If you can find them and afford them, all
of the movies can be obtained in 35mm format.

ABMAC

Buying film prints isn't so great -- the damn things fade and go pink!  Besides, with the movies you'd really want to have 'scope' prints in 35mm, and do you have any idea how much a 35mm projector with a scope lens is?  I don't want to think about it.  Get a DVD!

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .
<.html

.html In a message dated 4/14/02 5:56:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, whitty@... writes:

What are some other possibly influential "Zone" episodes?

Also, what are some more that illustrate the total unbelievability but still
give a spooky atmosphere?

Michael

I like episode "The Howling Man" where CONQUEST's 'Hoskyns,' H.M. Wynant, has the devil locked up in his closet.  That was a good one!

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .
<.html

Did I say I don't like the way the US is running the show? To the contrary,
I think it is the best alternative. I also really appreciate the way the US
does not choose to rename other countries and I hope they can keep up the
good work!!!

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: LordTZer0@... [LordTZer0@...]
> Sent: Monday, 15 April 2002 10:11
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Hands off Australia!
>
>
> Good points all Pat!
> That goes double for me.
> If you don't like they way the
> US is running the show, Mike,
> then who would get your vote for
> World Superpower, eh? France?

.html

What are some other possibly influential "Zone" episodes?

The one with the Monkey Pig Faced People!

<.html

.html In a message dated 4/14/02 1:22:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:

Yeah, and did you see the "Twilight Zone" episode that finds Roddy on exhibit in a zoo? "People Are Alike All over". Quick.                            - - Jeff

It's on DVD with an hour long episode with Natalie Trundy!

-- Rory
<.html

.html

This is where I compile a REAL collectibles database.

First section is RECORDINGS
Currently, subsections are:
SOUND
Vinyl - Talking Books/Soundtracks/Stories

So is this POTA only, or does it include other works by POTA stars.
For instance Kim Hunter recorded Dawn to Dusk and a Bag Full of Poems, as well as The Velvetine Rabbit



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .
<.html

.html In a message dated 4/14/02 1:49:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

Or the one with the astronauts crashed on a desert planet. Then at
the end the last living one goes over a hill and find telephone polls
and a road. I always thought that was the basis for the ending of
Planet.

That episode is called "I Shot an Arrow into the Sky," and it wasn't a planet, it was an asteroid, with an atmosphere (?!!!!), and the astronauts never guess they're on earth the whole time!  Yeah, I can see how it was a basis for PLANET.  Serling wasn't really a science fiction writer; he just used elements of it to get across his messages.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .
<.html

.html

Serling wasn't trying to be accurate with maps and getting everything perfectly right was not important - the MESSAGE was important.

Was that map stuff in Serlings script?
Or was that introduced in the rewrite?
Anyone?  anyone? . . .<.html

.html

Did I say I don't like the way the US is running the show?  To the contrary,
I think it is the best alternative.  I also really appreciate the way the US
does not choose to rename other countries and I hope they can keep up the
good work!!!

My mistake.  Yes, Australia is a much better name than Disney Indonesia.  I am particularly fond of your area when playing Risk.  I take over those islands and you'll never get me out of there!  Mooowahahahahahahaha . . . . .

<.html

.html  And who did the makeup for that one?

That would be the wonderful William Tuttle, who's done a lot of great makeup's over the years.  I believe he did the makeups for the screen test.  They looked a lot like this too.  It was cool that the normal person was the oddball.  I'll include the synopsis from the Sci Fi's episode guide as well as McDowall's that I found when looking for this one.  Wasn't he in a zoo in that one too?

THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER   *****Writer: Rod Serling Director: Douglas Heyes Cast: William B. Gordon, Donna Douglas, Jennifer Howard, Joanna Heyes
Another outstanding entry in the series.  Plastic surgeonsin some unknown society make one final attempt to improve a young woman's face so that she can live among "normal people." WilliamTuttle's make-ups are some of the most horrifying ever conceived for television.

PEOPLE ARE ALIKE ALL OVER   ****Writer: Rod SerlingDirector: David OrrickCast: Roddy McDowell, Susan Oliver, Paul Comi, Byron Morrow,Vic Perrin
An astronaut (McDowell) is pleased to find that people on Mars act just like people at home.  Based on a short story byPaul W. Fairman.LW: A TZ classic.





<.html

>From: "Anthony B. McElveen" <abmac@...>
>Subject: Re: Collectibles - Recordings
>On Sunday, April 14, 2002, at 09:09 PM, Haristas@... wrote:
>> I have the first four episodes of Return to the Planet of the Apes on
>> 16mm film. Apparently, that's how they were supplied to some (most?) of
>> the local television stations. If you can find them and afford them, all
>> of the movies can be obtained in 35mm format.
>If I bought the 35mm prints, I'd never run them. I have the VHS tapes,
>the laserdiscs and the DVDs and they can all be replaced easily if
>they're damaged. I'd love to have the cartoons on DVD, but I doubt it
>will ever happen.

I think there's some confusion -- Return to the Planet of the Apes IS the
cartoon series, and it was never released on laserdisc or DVD. :)

>From: LordTZer0@...
>Subject: Re: Collectibles - Recordings
>I wouldn't say that. If Alex can put all those Ape things on DVD there's no
>reason the cartoons can be put on them as well. I'd be interested in those
>myself. What about it Alex?

I'm in!

Hey no problem. No one's perfect. I sure ain't.

--- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> Hey all
>
> As I explained to James privately, this email was actually
addressed to
> Patrick but I accidentally inserted James' name instead (and spelled
> maturity incoeectly).
>
> Strangely enough this seems to enhance the point I was trying to
make.
>
> Michael
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: james611102 [JamesA1102@a...]
> > Sent: Monday, 15 April 2002 9:40
> > To: pota@y...
> > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Lack of intellectual maturiry
> >
> >
> > No I can't spell. I have dyslexia and it makes things hard
sometimes.
> > I use spell check when possible. But it doesn't seem to work when
I
> > post directly on to the board.
> >
> >
> > --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > > So you can spell James. Or do you just use Spell Check?
> > >
> > > Do you actually make mistakes James? Or, when your errs are
> > pointed out to
> > > you, do you just poke out you tongue and say "Well you suck
cause
> > you can't
> > > spell!".
> > >
> > > Michael
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@y...]
> > > > Sent: Monday, 15 April 2002 2:58
> > > > To: pota@y...
> > > > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Map Descriptiion
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In pota@y..., "james611102" <JamesA1102@a...> wrote:
> > > > > I'd always assumed that apes had achieved a level of
advancement
> > > > > equal to the mid-19th century. Of course in some areas they
may
> > have
> > > > > advanced even further and not as far in others.
> > > > > I'm sure now Patrick will tell us all how wrong I am and
> > correct all
> > > > > my misspelled words.
> > > >
> > > > *** This is my last posting for today, since I must go to the
> > daily
> > > > grind of my job in a moment... but let me finally congratulate
> > > > "james611102" on a contribution that has absolutely no
misspelt
> > words!
> > > > I'm not even going to quibble about the missing comma after
the
> > word
> > > > "course".
> > > > And--will wonders never cease?--we're actually in complete
> > agreement
> > > > as to the "mid-19th century" level of simian advancement!
Amazing!
> > > >
> > > > I don't blame you (Rory) for getting sick and tired of
the "map"
> > > > debate--I've posted what will probably be my last entry on
it. As
> > for
> > > > the circus stuff you're wondering about, well, quite frankly
I'm
> > not
> > > > all that worked up about it. During the roughly 2 hours of
screen
> > time
> > > > of PLANET, we only get to see a limited amount of the Ape
culture.
> > > > Lucius' mention of "a circus" only shows that this satirical
> > simian
> > > > culture shares yet one more thing in common with our own
world.
> > > >
> > > > Before I log off for now, here's a thought: what sort of
material
> > are
> > > > the Sacred Scrolls inscribed upon? If they're anything like
the
> > > > scrolls of antiquity, then they could be either papyrus or
> > vellum. But
> > > > I don't recall seeing any sheep around "Ape City"... so could
it
> > be
> > > > that the Scroll which Cornelius recites from at the end of
PLANET
> > be
> > > > made from... HUMAN SKIN?! After target practice, what happens
to
> > the
> > > > bodies of the slaughtered humans? Wouldn't the apes use their
> > light-
> > > > colored skin as scroll-parchment material? After all, humans
are
> > only
> > > > animals to them.
> > > >
> > > > Chew on that for awhile, folks. Gotta go.
> > > >
> > > > Patrick Michael Tilton
> > > > EARTH-TIME 4-14-2002
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > --- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> > > > > > I can't believe how this discussion about the map just
keeps
> > going
> > > > > on and on.
> > > > > > I don't see how this ever gets settled to anyone's
> > > > > satisfaction. I've got
> > > > > > another area to speculate about: What level of technology
> > did the
> > > > > apes have
> > > > > > in PLANET? They could make guns, nice clothes, delicate
> > surgical
> > > > > > instruments, and had high pressure hoses, yet they seemed
to
> > have
> > > > > no
> > > > > > electricity, and rode around on horses. What's up with
> > that? The
> > > > > gorillas
> > > > > > wore leather, but we saw no cows? And where was their
source
> > of
> > > > > illumination
> > > > > > at night? In Dr. Zaius' office that night he had Taylor
> > brought to
> > > > > him, his
> > > > > > office seemed pretty well lit, yet there were no candles!
> > What are
> > > > > we to
> > > > > > make of it? Did the apes' rooms have windows in the
ceilings
> > that
> > > > > simply let
> > > > > > in that 'strange luminosity' from the night sky outside?
And
> > what
> > > > > about
> > > > > > these ape circuses that Lucius mentions? What would an
ape
> > circus
> > > > > be like?
> > > > > > Did they have a big tent? Were there acrobatic apes?
Clown
> > apes?
> > > > > Did a
> > > > > > little wagon ride out into the ring towed by a pony and
did an
> > > > > unusally large
> > > > > > amount of ape clowns emerge from the wagon that looked too
> > small to
> > > > > hold them
> > > > > > all? Was there an ape 'human tamer' that cracked a whip
to
> > make
> > > > > the humans
> > > > > > jump from stand to stand and end up by forming a human
> > pyramid?
> > > > > Did they
> > > > > > have cotton candy for the kid apes, and how did the apes
> > learn how
> > > > > to make
> > > > > > cotton candy. And speaking of cotton... They must have
grown
> > > > > cotton to make
> > > > > > their clothes. Who picked the cotton? Men? What would
Eric
> > > > > Greene make of
> > > > > > that? But maybe the clothes were made of hemp. Maybe the
> > apes
> > > > > were hemp
> > > > > > growers as well as corn growers? Will these questions
never
> > end?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Patrick, I know you must have answers to these seemingly
> > hopeless
> > > > > enigmas of
> > > > > > the planet of the apes.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -- Rory
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >
> >

.html

Did I say I don't like the way the US is running the show?  To the contrary,
I think it is the best alternative.  I also really appreciate the way the US
does not choose to rename other countries and I hope they can keep up the
good work!!!

My mistake.  Yes, Australia is a much better name than Disney Indonesia.  I am particularly fond of your area when playing Risk.  I take over those islands and you'll never get me out of there!  Mooowahahahahahahaha . . . . .

<.html

<<I'd love to have the cartoons on DVD, but I doubt it will ever happen.>>

Oh, I wouldn't completely rule it out. I'd imagine that successful sales of the live-action TV series DVD set would factor into any decision to release the animateds. Has anyone seen or heard anything about how the DVD PotA sales are doing?

I have most of the animateds on bootleg videos I picked up at conventions and stuff like that, but the quality varies from okay to poor.

-- Dayton
http://members.aol.com/dwardkc/dwmain.htm

Yeah who needs perfection whem we have Patrick to fix our flubs!

> -----Original Message-----
> From: james611102 [JamesA1102@...]
> Sent: Monday, 15 April 2002 23:06
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Lack of intellectual maturity
>
>
> Hey no problem. No one's perfect. I sure ain't.
>
> --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > Hey all
> >
> > As I explained to James privately, this email was actually
> addressed to
> > Patrick but I accidentally inserted James' name instead (and spelled
> > maturity incoeectly).
> >
> > Strangely enough this seems to enhance the point I was trying to
> make.
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: james611102 [JamesA1102@a...]
> > > Sent: Monday, 15 April 2002 9:40
> > > To: pota@y...
> > > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Lack of intellectual maturiry
> > >
> > >
> > > No I can't spell. I have dyslexia and it makes things hard
> sometimes.
> > > I use spell check when possible. But it doesn't seem to work when
> I
> > > post directly on to the board.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > > > So you can spell James. Or do you just use Spell Check?
> > > >
> > > > Do you actually make mistakes James? Or, when your errs are
> > > pointed out to
> > > > you, do you just poke out you tongue and say "Well you suck
> cause
> > > you can't
> > > > spell!".
> > > >
> > > > Michael
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@y...]
> > > > > Sent: Monday, 15 April 2002 2:58
> > > > > To: pota@y...
> > > > > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Map Descriptiion
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In pota@y..., "james611102" <JamesA1102@a...> wrote:
> > > > > > I'd always assumed that apes had achieved a level of
> advancement
> > > > > > equal to the mid-19th century. Of course in some areas they
> may
> > > have
> > > > > > advanced even further and not as far in others.
> > > > > > I'm sure now Patrick will tell us all how wrong I am and
> > > correct all
> > > > > > my misspelled words.
> > > > >
> > > > > *** This is my last posting for today, since I must go to the
> > > daily
> > > > > grind of my job in a moment... but let me finally congratulate
> > > > > "james611102" on a contribution that has absolutely no
> misspelt
> > > words!
> > > > > I'm not even going to quibble about the missing comma after
> the
> > > word
> > > > > "course".
> > > > > And--will wonders never cease?--we're actually in complete
> > > agreement
> > > > > as to the "mid-19th century" level of simian advancement!
> Amazing!
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't blame you (Rory) for getting sick and tired of
> the "map"
> > > > > debate--I've posted what will probably be my last entry on
> it. As
> > > for
> > > > > the circus stuff you're wondering about, well, quite frankly
> I'm
> > > not
> > > > > all that worked up about it. During the roughly 2 hours of
> screen
> > > time
> > > > > of PLANET, we only get to see a limited amount of the Ape
> culture.
> > > > > Lucius' mention of "a circus" only shows that this satirical
> > > simian
> > > > > culture shares yet one more thing in common with our own
> world.
> > > > >
> > > > > Before I log off for now, here's a thought: what sort of
> material
> > > are
> > > > > the Sacred Scrolls inscribed upon? If they're anything like
> the
> > > > > scrolls of antiquity, then they could be either papyrus or
> > > vellum. But
> > > > > I don't recall seeing any sheep around "Ape City"... so could
> it
> > > be
> > > > > that the Scroll which Cornelius recites from at the end of
> PLANET
> > > be
> > > > > made from... HUMAN SKIN?! After target practice, what happens
> to
> > > the
> > > > > bodies of the slaughtered humans? Wouldn't the apes use their
> > > light-
> > > > > colored skin as scroll-parchment material? After all, humans
> are
> > > only
> > > > > animals to them.
> > > > >
> > > > > Chew on that for awhile, folks. Gotta go.
> > > > >
> > > > > Patrick Michael Tilton
> > > > > EARTH-TIME 4-14-2002
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > --- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> > > > > > > I can't believe how this discussion about the map just
> keeps
> > > going
> > > > > > on and on.
> > > > > > > I don't see how this ever gets settled to anyone's
> > > > > > satisfaction. I've got
> > > > > > > another area to speculate about: What level of technology
> > > did the
> > > > > > apes have
> > > > > > > in PLANET? They could make guns, nice clothes, delicate
> > > surgical
> > > > > > > instruments, and had high pressure hoses, yet they seemed
> to
> > > have
> > > > > > no
> > > > > > > electricity, and rode around on horses. What's up with
> > > that? The
> > > > > > gorillas
> > > > > > > wore leather, but we saw no cows? And where was their
> source
> > > of
> > > > > > illumination
> > > > > > > at night? In Dr. Zaius' office that night he had Taylor
> > > brought to
> > > > > > him, his
> > > > > > > office seemed pretty well lit, yet there were no candles!
> > > What are
> > > > > > we to
> > > > > > > make of it? Did the apes' rooms have windows in the
> ceilings
> > > that
> > > > > > simply let
> > > > > > > in that 'strange luminosity' from the night sky outside?
> And
> > > what
> > > > > > about
> > > > > > > these ape circuses that Lucius mentions? What would an
> ape
> > > circus
> > > > > > be like?
> > > > > > > Did they have a big tent? Were there acrobatic apes?
> Clown
> > > apes?
> > > > > > Did a
> > > > > > > little wagon ride out into the ring towed by a pony and
> did an
> > > > > > unusally large
> > > > > > > amount of ape clowns emerge from the wagon that looked too
> > > small to
> > > > > > hold them
> > > > > > > all? Was there an ape 'human tamer' that cracked a whip
> to
> > > make
> > > > > > the humans
> > > > > > > jump from stand to stand and end up by forming a human
> > > pyramid?
> > > > > > Did they
> > > > > > > have cotton candy for the kid apes, and how did the apes
> > > learn how
> > > > > > to make
> > > > > > > cotton candy. And speaking of cotton... They must have
> grown
> > > > > > cotton to make
> > > > > > > their clothes. Who picked the cotton? Men? What would
> Eric
> > > > > > Greene make of
> > > > > > > that? But maybe the clothes were made of hemp. Maybe the
> > > apes
> > > > > > were hemp
> > > > > > > growers as well as corn growers? Will these questions
> never
> > > end?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Patrick, I know you must have answers to these seemingly
> > > hopeless
> > > > > > enigmas of
> > > > > > > the planet of the apes.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -- Rory
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.htmlIn a message dated 4/15/02 6:44:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time, whitty@... writes:

What's the name of the hour long episode?

Michael



It's called "Valley of the Shadow" and it first aired on January 17, 1963.  The '63-'64 season of TZ were hour-long episodes.  James Whitmore did one.  McDowall's episode was first aired on March 25, 1960.  They're both on Vol. 24 of the TZ DVDs.  It's the only volume I've bought since I think I've seen every episode of TZ at least five times.

-- Rory<.html

<LordTZer0@...> wrote:

> So is this POTA only, or does it include other works by POTA stars.
> For instance Kim Hunter recorded Dawn to Dusk and a Bag Full of

Poems, as

> well as The Velvetine Rabbit

Well in that case let's not forget about the novelisation of 1989's
Batman film, which was released as an audio book read by Roddy!

Actually, I think just creating the definitive PotA collectables
database will be enough to keep your hands full for some time, so the
above items are probably a bad idea.

Alan