I'll have to check this out to see what you mean. But, do you
suppose this has something to do with the fact that there were no
female orangutans or gorillas?

--Helen

--- In pota@y..., "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@y...>
wrote:

> Some time ago, there was a debate regarding whether or not Caesar's
> actions in BATTLE somehow changed the Future. Those who advocated

this

> mentioned that the once-"mean" Lawgiver (who wrote the Sacred

Scrolls

> quoted in PLANET) had thus been changed into the now-"nice"

Lawgiver

> portrayed by John Huston, who reads the Story of Caesar from the
> scroll of scripture to a mixed-race group of Apes and Humans.
>
> In the opening scene, when we hear him speak: "In the Beginning,

God

> created Beast and Man..." etc., we end up seeing ONLY this single,

old

> orangutan. We don't see his audience.
> In the ending scene, after we fade from the shot of Caesar telling
> Mandemus that they must "wait", we again see this "Lawgiver"... and
> then the camera pans to the right and we finally get to see the

group

> of Apes and Humans, living in peace and friendship...
>
> The only trouble is that there don't seem to be any gorillas or
> orangutans in this audience of children. Why not? I see human boys

and

> girls; I see chimpanzee boys and girls; I do NOT see any gorilla or
> orangutan boys and girls, though. If this IS meant to represent a
> peaceful community of Humans and Apes, then why aren't there

gorillas

> or orangutans amongst these children?
>
> Could it be that this "Lawgiver" in 2670 A.D. is "bucking a trend",
> trying to foster the "peace and friendship" Ideal in the face of an
> opposition (represented by the "missing" orangutans and gorillas)?
>
> If somebody out there (James has demonstrated the capability) could

do

> some "frame-grabs" of the crowd of children between the Lawgiver on
> the left and the statue of Caesar on the right, and post them on

this

> site, we'll all be able to see what I'm talking about here. One or

two

> of the apes look like they might have been intended as gorillas,
> except for the fact that they're wearing distinctive green trousers
> (exclusively "chimp" colors).
>
> Could it be that this Lawgiver (the only orangutan present in this
> 2670 A.D. scene) is different from the "mainstream" of orangutan
> sentiment? Maybe orangutan and gorilla children once were a part of
> his audience... until the grown-up orangutans and gorillas decided
> that they didn't like his message of "equality" for Apes and

Humans;

> perhaps even at this point there are orangutans and gorillas who
> consider their respective species to be superior to Humans (and,
> perhaps, to Chimpanzees as well), and don't wish for their children

to

> intermix with them.
>
> It's not as if the make-ups for orangutan and gorilla children were
> not available: aren't there such characters in the "classroom"

scene,

> where Teacher ridicules Aldo's handwriting? If they COULD have had
> orangutan and gorilla children in this end scene (as is the case),
> then why DIDN'T they?
>
> Patrick Michael Tilton
> EARTH-TIME 4-21-2002

> I don't think that there even IS an "Oakland Science
>Institute" building in the city (I've looked on internet search

Not to worry. They have at least 501 years to build one.

They only had chimp kid costumes and the kid gorilla costume from Planet
must have been at the cleaners.
Best,
KEN

----- Original Message -----
From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 2:28 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] End of BATTLE population


> Some time ago, there was a debate regarding whether or not Caesar's
> actions in BATTLE somehow changed the Future. Those who advocated this
> mentioned that the once-"mean" Lawgiver (who wrote the Sacred Scrolls
> quoted in PLANET) had thus been changed into the now-"nice" Lawgiver
> portrayed by John Huston, who reads the Story of Caesar from the
> scroll of scripture to a mixed-race group of Apes and Humans.
>
> In the opening scene, when we hear him speak: "In the Beginning, God
> created Beast and Man..." etc., we end up seeing ONLY this single, old
> orangutan. We don't see his audience.
> In the ending scene, after we fade from the shot of Caesar telling
> Mandemus that they must "wait", we again see this "Lawgiver"... and
> then the camera pans to the right and we finally get to see the group
> of Apes and Humans, living in peace and friendship...
>
> The only trouble is that there don't seem to be any gorillas or
> orangutans in this audience of children. Why not? I see human boys and
> girls; I see chimpanzee boys and girls; I do NOT see any gorilla or
> orangutan boys and girls, though. If this IS meant to represent a
> peaceful community of Humans and Apes, then why aren't there gorillas
> or orangutans amongst these children?
>
> Could it be that this "Lawgiver" in 2670 A.D. is "bucking a trend",
> trying to foster the "peace and friendship" Ideal in the face of an
> opposition (represented by the "missing" orangutans and gorillas)?
>
> If somebody out there (James has demonstrated the capability) could do
> some "frame-grabs" of the crowd of children between the Lawgiver on
> the left and the statue of Caesar on the right, and post them on this
> site, we'll all be able to see what I'm talking about here. One or two
> of the apes look like they might have been intended as gorillas,
> except for the fact that they're wearing distinctive green trousers
> (exclusively "chimp" colors).
>
> Could it be that this Lawgiver (the only orangutan present in this
> 2670 A.D. scene) is different from the "mainstream" of orangutan
> sentiment? Maybe orangutan and gorilla children once were a part of
> his audience... until the grown-up orangutans and gorillas decided
> that they didn't like his message of "equality" for Apes and Humans;
> perhaps even at this point there are orangutans and gorillas who
> consider their respective species to be superior to Humans (and,
> perhaps, to Chimpanzees as well), and don't wish for their children to
> intermix with them.
>
> It's not as if the make-ups for orangutan and gorilla children were
> not available: aren't there such characters in the "classroom" scene,
> where Teacher ridicules Aldo's handwriting? If they COULD have had
> orangutan and gorilla children in this end scene (as is the case),
> then why DIDN'T they?
>
> Patrick Michael Tilton
> EARTH-TIME 4-21-2002
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Wasn't the mansion where Virdon is kept prisoner the set of the castle
entrance from Mel Brook's 'Young Frankenstein'?
Best,
KEN

----- Original Message -----
From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 12:55 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Less Politics More Apes


> --- In pota@y..., "Alan Maxwell" <alan@a...> wrote:
> > "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:
> > > ***You mentioned "establishing shot" (I think), so I naturally
> > thought
> > > of that "establishing shot" from the first episode (right before the
> > > first scene with Galen and Zaius), showing "Central City"--using
> > > footage from PLANET (the movie). The "ruins" you're talking about
> > > (i.e. both Oakland and San Francisco) were not "establishing
> > shots"--
> >
> > They are establishing shots - one is the very first image from "The
> > Trap" and the other is from before the fugitives enter the city in
> > "The Legacy". See pics attached!
>
> > Alan
>
> *** Point well taken. However, since these two episodes take place in
> roughly the same area (Oakland and San Francisco are, obviously, just
> across the Bay from each other), these identical "establishing shots"
> are not as "flubbish" [NEW WORD!] as they would be if they
> represented, say, Oakland and Miami. I consider that shot to represent
> "the Bay area" (as in B.A.R.T.: "Bay Area Rapid Transit"), which
> includes both cities.
>
> On a related topic, I have a question (especially directed to all
> those who may be living in the Bay area): Although the BART station in
> "The Trap" is relatively easy to pinpoint (due to the "Sutter Street"
> exit information on the wall) on a map of San Francisco, the street
> locations of the three main scenes from "The Legacy"--the OAKLAND
> SCIENCE INSTITUTE, the "mansion" where Virdon is kept prisoner, and
> the train station--are not all that easy for somebody to find on a map
> of Oakland. I don't think that there even IS an "Oakland Science
> Institute" building in the city (I've looked on internet search
> engines, but came up nil). Does anybody out there (who has/have been
> in Oakland--perhaps even LIVE there) have any idea what addresses
> these three sites may/should have?
>
> Patrick Michael Tilton
> EARTH-TIME 4-21-2002
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Hey Alex,

Just so you know, Patrick is the one who is going on about spelling - saying
he has a problem with it.

Do you want to re-write this posting, or maybe you can get your computer to
do it?

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Calima 5021 [calima5021com@...]
> Sent: Monday, 22 April 2002 3:50
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Spelling (OT)
>
>
> Hey, don't worry too much about it, Pat.
> I miss spell and make typo mistakes myself from time to time. People can
> talk about miss spelling all they want, but I know for a fact
> they can't do
> half the things I can do with a computer. Or know as much as do in
> computers.
>
> So in the end, I really don't give a fuck. :o)
> Hey, spelling is all they have in life, So I cut them a break.
>
> Best.
> Al
>
>
>
> >From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
> >Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> >To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Spelling (OT)
> >Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 14:43:03 -0000
> >
>
>
>
>
> _____

They were from a mothership called "earth", launched from New Australia, and
the theory of supidity (y=senseless dribble) backs that up.

Davros

> -----Original Message-----
> From: sand_hill_school [sand_hill_school@...]
> Sent: Monday, 22 April 2002 5:09
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: End of BATTLE population
>
>
> I'll have to check this out to see what you mean. But, do you
> suppose this has something to do with the fact that there were no
> female orangutans or gorillas?
>
> --Helen
>
> --- In pota@y..., "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@y...>
> wrote:
> > Some time ago, there was a debate regarding whether or not Caesar's
> > actions in BATTLE somehow changed the Future. Those who advocated
> this
> > mentioned that the once-"mean" Lawgiver (who wrote the Sacred
> Scrolls
> > quoted in PLANET) had thus been changed into the now-"nice"
> Lawgiver
> > portrayed by John Huston, who reads the Story of Caesar from the
> > scroll of scripture to a mixed-race group of Apes and Humans.
> >
> > In the opening scene, when we hear him speak: "In the Beginning,
> God
> > created Beast and Man..." etc., we end up seeing ONLY this single,
> old
> > orangutan. We don't see his audience.
> > In the ending scene, after we fade from the shot of Caesar telling
> > Mandemus that they must "wait", we again see this "Lawgiver"... and
> > then the camera pans to the right and we finally get to see the
> group
> > of Apes and Humans, living in peace and friendship...
> >
> > The only trouble is that there don't seem to be any gorillas or
> > orangutans in this audience of children. Why not? I see human boys
> and
> > girls; I see chimpanzee boys and girls; I do NOT see any gorilla or
> > orangutan boys and girls, though. If this IS meant to represent a
> > peaceful community of Humans and Apes, then why aren't there
> gorillas
> > or orangutans amongst these children?
> >
> > Could it be that this "Lawgiver" in 2670 A.D. is "bucking a trend",
> > trying to foster the "peace and friendship" Ideal in the face of an
> > opposition (represented by the "missing" orangutans and gorillas)?
> >
> > If somebody out there (James has demonstrated the capability) could
> do
> > some "frame-grabs" of the crowd of children between the Lawgiver on
> > the left and the statue of Caesar on the right, and post them on
> this
> > site, we'll all be able to see what I'm talking about here. One or
> two
> > of the apes look like they might have been intended as gorillas,
> > except for the fact that they're wearing distinctive green trousers
> > (exclusively "chimp" colors).
> >
> > Could it be that this Lawgiver (the only orangutan present in this
> > 2670 A.D. scene) is different from the "mainstream" of orangutan
> > sentiment? Maybe orangutan and gorilla children once were a part of
> > his audience... until the grown-up orangutans and gorillas decided
> > that they didn't like his message of "equality" for Apes and
> Humans;
> > perhaps even at this point there are orangutans and gorillas who
> > consider their respective species to be superior to Humans (and,
> > perhaps, to Chimpanzees as well), and don't wish for their children
> to
> > intermix with them.
> >
> > It's not as if the make-ups for orangutan and gorilla children were
> > not available: aren't there such characters in the "classroom"
> scene,
> > where Teacher ridicules Aldo's handwriting? If they COULD have had
> > orangutan and gorilla children in this end scene (as is the case),
> > then why DIDN'T they?
> >
> > Patrick Michael Tilton
> > EARTH-TIME 4-21-2002
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Come on Ken, that explanation only took up one line. Not much of a thesis.
And a "kid" is a goat - I think you mean "child".

OK that's it, I want all of these posting proof read!!!

Hitler

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken and Heather Taylor [ktaylor@...]
> Sent: Sunday, 21 April 2002 7:57
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] End of BATTLE population
>
>
> They only had chimp kid costumes and the kid gorilla costume from Planet
> must have been at the cleaners.
> Best,
> KEN
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 2:28 AM
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] End of BATTLE population
>
>
> > Some time ago, there was a debate regarding whether or not Caesar's
> > actions in BATTLE somehow changed the Future. Those who advocated this
> > mentioned that the once-"mean" Lawgiver (who wrote the Sacred Scrolls
> > quoted in PLANET) had thus been changed into the now-"nice" Lawgiver
> > portrayed by John Huston, who reads the Story of Caesar from the
> > scroll of scripture to a mixed-race group of Apes and Humans.
> >
> > In the opening scene, when we hear him speak: "In the Beginning, God
> > created Beast and Man..." etc., we end up seeing ONLY this single, old
> > orangutan. We don't see his audience.
> > In the ending scene, after we fade from the shot of Caesar telling
> > Mandemus that they must "wait", we again see this "Lawgiver"... and
> > then the camera pans to the right and we finally get to see the group
> > of Apes and Humans, living in peace and friendship...
> >
> > The only trouble is that there don't seem to be any gorillas or
> > orangutans in this audience of children. Why not? I see human boys and
> > girls; I see chimpanzee boys and girls; I do NOT see any gorilla or
> > orangutan boys and girls, though. If this IS meant to represent a
> > peaceful community of Humans and Apes, then why aren't there gorillas
> > or orangutans amongst these children?
> >
> > Could it be that this "Lawgiver" in 2670 A.D. is "bucking a trend",
> > trying to foster the "peace and friendship" Ideal in the face of an
> > opposition (represented by the "missing" orangutans and gorillas)?
> >
> > If somebody out there (James has demonstrated the capability) could do
> > some "frame-grabs" of the crowd of children between the Lawgiver on
> > the left and the statue of Caesar on the right, and post them on this
> > site, we'll all be able to see what I'm talking about here. One or two
> > of the apes look like they might have been intended as gorillas,
> > except for the fact that they're wearing distinctive green trousers
> > (exclusively "chimp" colors).
> >
> > Could it be that this Lawgiver (the only orangutan present in this
> > 2670 A.D. scene) is different from the "mainstream" of orangutan
> > sentiment? Maybe orangutan and gorilla children once were a part of
> > his audience... until the grown-up orangutans and gorillas decided
> > that they didn't like his message of "equality" for Apes and Humans;
> > perhaps even at this point there are orangutans and gorillas who
> > consider their respective species to be superior to Humans (and,
> > perhaps, to Chimpanzees as well), and don't wish for their children to
> > intermix with them.
> >
> > It's not as if the make-ups for orangutan and gorilla children were
> > not available: aren't there such characters in the "classroom" scene,
> > where Teacher ridicules Aldo's handwriting? If they COULD have had
> > orangutan and gorilla children in this end scene (as is the case),
> > then why DIDN'T they?
> >
> > Patrick Michael Tilton
> > EARTH-TIME 4-21-2002
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

>
>

Anyone ever told you how boring you are Patrick? Oh yeah, that's why you
appear on our group now because all others have banished you.

You're an idiot Patrick, and like all idiots that inspires you to use big
words and long sentences. Well Patrick, not one person in this group
appreciates your idiocy. Get back to licking them you nerd, you missed a
bit.

Playmate of the Nerd

> -----Original Message-----
> From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@...]
> Sent: Monday, 22 April 2002 0:43
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Spelling (OT)
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> >No, I suggested you might want to have the foresight to include
> the scenario as an option. But no you don't have that foresight.
> you self righteous little turd.
>
> >I think it would be more appropriate that you lick my balls than
> I offer you an apology. Take a chill pill.
>
> >And yes Patrick, we all know you think you are better than us.
> I will return to my blissful deletion of your idiotic ravings.
>
> >Lick 'em good Pat.
>
> >Michael
>
> *** My, oh my... so that's the high-level of discourse one acquires
> with a Masters of Education degree!
> So... I should just ASSUME that everybody who misspells words in their
> postings are dyslexic? I suppose I should also assume that you
> 'suffer' from Tourette's Syndrome, and that you don't have any excuse
> for the vulgarities you've proffered in this quaint message of yours.
>
> In "Message 16850" you state: "... it shits me to death when people
> ridicule others in an attempt to inflate themselves..."--essentially,
> accusing me of the equivalent of abusing the handicapped. Like kicking
> the crutches out from under somebody who is paralyzed from the waist
> down. If somebody accused YOU of that sort of thing, would you just
> sit there and let it slide? I was not aware of James' dyslexia until
> Message #16765--well after my spelling critiques. I don't know why he
> didn't clue me in to his VALID excuse for his spelling idiosyncracies
> until #16765 (perhaps he felt self-conscious about it? I don't know--
> just guessing here), but AFTER that posting I didn't hesitate to
> apologize to him for any unintentional "bad vibes" he may have gotten
> from my spelling critiques. Yet YOU accused me of INTENTIONALLY trying
> to make him feel rotten ("when people ridicule others"), in order "to
> inflate" myself at his expense. That IS a slander, Mick--one deserving
> of an gentleman's apology; I don't expect one from you, however.
> When I point out another person's spelling mistakes, it is not done
> "to inflate myself" at their expense; when I make mistakes that others
> point out, I'm glad to have my misconception corrected. I've made
> plenty of mistakes during my lifetime, and I expect that I'll make
> more down the line. I'm not above deferring to an expert's opinion,
> though--at times--I've found it prudent to double-check expert
> opinions, just to keep them on their toes: even the experts can be
> wrong (and have been). You seem to think that my purpose in
> criticizing poor spelling is "self-inflation"; when your grammar
> school teachers corrected your misspellings, did you assume the same
> thing about them? The main reason I go out of my way to promote
> correct spelling is to prevent miscommunication, and if you think that
> misspellings don't matter, and that nobody'll ever have a problem
> understanding anybody else despite the use of badly-spelt words, then
> you are living in a fool's paradise.
>
> I may disagree with James' interpretation regarding the directions on
> Cornelius' map, but I don't think I'm "superior" to him--I think my
> interpretation is superior to his, in regards to that detail;
> incidentally, if they had never made any sequels to PLANET, then I
> would agree unequivocally with James and conclude that "right" =
> "East" on the map--it's only the line from BENEATH that prompts me to
> conclude otherwise. But, contrary to your presumptuous assertion that
> I somehow "think [I] am better than [all of you]", I do not. You have
> a lot of gall to pretend to speak on behalf of all the other members
> who post on this site ("WE all know you think you are better than
> US..."--my emphasis); perhaps in your mind you actually believe it's
> "everybody against Patrick" here, with Michael Whitty the self-
> proclaimed "champion" who sets forth to do battle against the foe.
> You're tilting against windmills, Mick, but with far less class than
> Don Quixote.
>
> Feel free to blissfully delete my postings (I assume you mean 'skip'
> them); if you have any "issues" with me then why not spare the others
> here your puerile vulgarities and email me directly at:
> patrickmichaeltilton@....
> Send me directly all the hate-email you wish, laced with as many
> vulgarisms as you may care to include (i.e. "...lick my balls..."
> etc.). I won't pretend to speak on behalf of the others here (as you
> pretend to), but I suspect that nobody else particularly cares to be
> exposed to your vulgar references to "ball-licking" and the like. Why
> not send it directly to my email address, and then I can either
> ignore/delete it, or answer you directly at your email address? Why
> clutter up the POTA group site with your drivel?
>
> Patrick Michael Tilton
> EARTH-TIME 4-21-2002
>
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@y...]
> > > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Spelling (OT)
>
> >Incidentally, your last posting suggested that I knew beforehand
> that James was dyslexic yet still insisted on "ridiculing" him.
> What a load of bullshit! Correcting a true mistake is not an
> "error"; had I known he was dyslexic I would have dropped the
> matter on the spot. My
> apology was for any UNINTENTIONAL hurt he may have felt due to my
> critique of his dyslexic spelling; your assumption that I KNEW of his
> dyslexia and THEN gave him shit for his spelling is a fucking slander,
> and I think I deserve an apology from YOU for that.
> >Unless, that is, your slander was due to your being one of those
> 12 year old heroin addicts you fret over! Hell, I guess I'd cut
> you some slack then, Mick.
>
> >Patrick Michael Tilton
> >EARTH-TIME 4-17-2002
>
> P.S. In Message #16847, you say: "Oh, and here's a new one for you.
> The first name for Australia - New Holland. Thanks for the totally
> useless history lesson - who are you trying to impress?"
> For the record, I wasn't trying to "impress" you or anybody else. I
> was pointing out the obvious to somebody who didn't seem to have a
> clue otherwise. "Totally useless"? UseFUL, rather, for anybody who can
> find a use for it.
> Why aren't you "offended" by the change of name from "New Holland" to
> "Australia", by the way? Shouldn't YOU sympathize with those who wish
> that the offensive imposition of the latter name be revoked in favor
> of its "original" name? How many New Yorkers lament the passing of the
> old name of "New Amsterdam"? Not many, if any. Likewise, if fictional
> future Americans were to rename your beloved "Australia" (depopulated/
> reduced-to-savagery) for reasons that appeal to their patriotic
> sensibilities, then it would be a "fait accompli". You don't have to
> like it, any more than certain fringe Native American groups do the
> use of "mascot" names for sports teams (i.e. "Redskins", "Braves",
> "Sioux", etc.). It's a fact of life, so deal with it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I've been gone for 2 weeks simply because AOL blows. Stay away from it.

Anyway...I found some Apes posters in a Video Update dumpster by my house.
Pretty nifty, but very soggy. It had rained the night before, so they kind
of smell bad. Whatever, bye.

-Joe

Say, did anybody else see "JAY AND SILENT BOB STRIKE BACK"? They had a
hilarious POTA spoof in it--that is, of ORIGINAL (not Burton-
"reimagining") POTA--which I found infinitely more entertaining than
Burton's travesty.
Kevin Smith must be a true POTA fan!

YEAH, I saw it! That was good. POTA definitely has it's place in history.
I was able to get a copy of Dramatica Pro & Movie Magic Screenwriter 2000 on
a student discount. Dramatica came with a comic book to help explain how it
works. On the panel where they talked about stories where the Judgment was
bad they had a drawing of Heston on the beach with the ruins of the Statue of
Liberty in the background. The film icon of all time!

I was thumbing through the current issue of "Toyfare" magazine, which has
the upcoming action figures for the year. Playmates is going to start a new
"Simpsons" collection called "Mini-Figures". These are sets of small PVC
figures and each set is based on an episode. This is our best chance yet for
figures based on the POTA musical. The first two sets are "Homer at the Bat"
and "Deep Space Homer" (which had an "Apes" reference) and will be available
next month. Etc. - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: <CheeseGOTAS@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 3:25 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Back from the Forbidden Zone


> I've been gone for 2 weeks simply because AOL blows. Stay away from it.
>
> Anyway...I found some Apes posters in a Video Update dumpster by my house.
> Pretty nifty, but very soggy. It had rained the night before, so they
kind
> of smell bad. Whatever, bye.
>
> -Joe
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html

Hype matters

If it did then Apes should have made 300 mil.
You can only hype  the first week before word get out.
Good or bad.<.html

What's that supposed to mean? They're saying that scene was bad? Get your
money back! It's a rip-off.
Etc. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: <LordTZer0@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 3:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] DVD


> Say, did anybody else see "JAY AND SILENT BOB STRIKE BACK"? They had a
> hilarious POTA spoof in it--that is, of ORIGINAL (not Burton-
> "reimagining") POTA--which I found infinitely more entertaining than
> Burton's travesty.
> Kevin Smith must be a true POTA fan!
>
> YEAH, I saw it! That was good. POTA definitely has it's place in
history.
> I was able to get a copy of Dramatica Pro & Movie Magic Screenwriter 2000
on
> a student discount. Dramatica came with a comic book to help explain how
it
> works. On the panel where they talked about stories where the Judgment
was
> bad they had a drawing of Heston on the beach with the ruins of the Statue
of
> Liberty in the background. The film icon of all time!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Yeah, Ron Harper told me that. Etc. - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken and Heather Taylor" <ktaylor@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 2:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Less Politics More Apes


> Wasn't the mansion where Virdon is kept prisoner the set of the castle
> entrance from Mel Brook's 'Young Frankenstein'?
> Best,
> KEN
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 12:55 AM
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Less Politics More Apes
>
>
> > --- In pota@y..., "Alan Maxwell" <alan@a...> wrote:
> > > "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:
> > > > ***You mentioned "establishing shot" (I think), so I naturally
> > > thought
> > > > of that "establishing shot" from the first episode (right before the
> > > > first scene with Galen and Zaius), showing "Central City"--using
> > > > footage from PLANET (the movie). The "ruins" you're talking about
> > > > (i.e. both Oakland and San Francisco) were not "establishing
> > > shots"--
> > >
> > > They are establishing shots - one is the very first image from "The
> > > Trap" and the other is from before the fugitives enter the city in
> > > "The Legacy". See pics attached!
> >
> > > Alan
> >
> > *** Point well taken. However, since these two episodes take place in
> > roughly the same area (Oakland and San Francisco are, obviously, just
> > across the Bay from each other), these identical "establishing shots"
> > are not as "flubbish" [NEW WORD!] as they would be if they
> > represented, say, Oakland and Miami. I consider that shot to represent
> > "the Bay area" (as in B.A.R.T.: "Bay Area Rapid Transit"), which
> > includes both cities.
> >
> > On a related topic, I have a question (especially directed to all
> > those who may be living in the Bay area): Although the BART station in
> > "The Trap" is relatively easy to pinpoint (due to the "Sutter Street"
> > exit information on the wall) on a map of San Francisco, the street
> > locations of the three main scenes from "The Legacy"--the OAKLAND
> > SCIENCE INSTITUTE, the "mansion" where Virdon is kept prisoner, and
> > the train station--are not all that easy for somebody to find on a map
> > of Oakland. I don't think that there even IS an "Oakland Science
> > Institute" building in the city (I've looked on internet search
> > engines, but came up nil). Does anybody out there (who has/have been
> > in Oakland--perhaps even LIVE there) have any idea what addresses
> > these three sites may/should have?
> >
> > Patrick Michael Tilton
> > EARTH-TIME 4-21-2002
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html

Rent "Tora, Tora Tora". Much better film that respects the history
its presenting. Plus it has a Jerry Goldsmith score

Yeah, but they screwed Kirasawa on that deal.

<.html

Brevity is the soul of wit.

What's a video update?

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 3:38 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] "Apes 2" update

Hype matters

If it did then Apes should have made 300 mil.
You can only hype  the first week before word get out.
Good or bad.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

In a message dated 4/21/02 5:47:39 PM Central Daylight Time,
LordTZer0@... writes:

<< What's a video update? >>

It's a nifty place where you can rent movies and games.

-Joe

What's that supposed to mean? They're saying that scene was bad?

No, they're saying that even though he beat Zaius and the gorilla, it wasn't
a Hollywood 'Happy' Ending.

Oh, in other words it won't make a dime. Etc.

----- Original Message -----
From: <LordTZer0@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 3:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] DVD


>
> What's that supposed to mean? They're saying that scene was bad?
>
> No, they're saying that even though he beat Zaius and the gorilla, it
wasn't
> a Hollywood 'Happy' Ending.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html

Oh, in other words it won't make a dime. Etc.

No, it was a big hit at the time.
Lot's of movies wherer the jugement was bad did great!
They Usual Suspects, The Godfather

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 4:27 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] DVD

Oh, in other words it won't make a dime. Etc.

No, it was a big hit at the time.
Lot's of movies wherer the jugement was bad did great!
They Usual Suspects, The Godfather

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

It may not happen. Hasbro has an exclusive licence to produce APE related
action figures in North America. As the Simpson's version of the Apes are
technically POTA, Playmates may not get the rights to do them. As they're
not posable action figures as such, they may be able to get around the
'exclusive' Hasbro deal. But as both properties belong to Fox, they may be
able to work something out. Personally, I'd love for Playmates to create a
Simpsons 'environment based on the apes musical w/ Troy McClure and at least
Zaius and Nurse ape.
Best,
KEN

----- Original Message -----
From: <veetus@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 8:37 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Let's play, mate!


> I was thumbing through the current issue of "Toyfare" magazine, which
has
> the upcoming action figures for the year. Playmates is going to start a
new
> "Simpsons" collection called "Mini-Figures". These are sets of small PVC
> figures and each set is based on an episode. This is our best chance yet
for
> figures based on the POTA musical. The first two sets are "Homer at the
Bat"
> and "Deep Space Homer" (which had an "Apes" reference) and will be
available
> next month. Etc. - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <CheeseGOTAS@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 3:25 PM
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Back from the Forbidden Zone
>
>
> > I've been gone for 2 weeks simply because AOL blows. Stay away from it.
> >
> > Anyway...I found some Apes posters in a Video Update dumpster by my
house.
> > Pretty nifty, but very soggy. It had rained the night before, so they
> kind
> > of smell bad. Whatever, bye.
> >
> > -Joe
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

You're starting to sound like MGM and that "Goldmember" business. Parody
is protected. Besides, POTA isn't doing Hasbro any favors, they're sitting
on the shelves. Pretty soon they're going to start sounding like Henny
Youngman, "Take my license. Please".
Besides, plenty of licenses get shifted around. Like the "Star Trek"
Barbies, like the ones right here...er, no I didn't buy them. That's so
silly you'd suggest that I did. I'm not making sense? YOU'RE not making
sense. Why would you say I'm behaving strangely? You are.
- - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken and Heather Taylor" <ktaylor@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Let's play, mate!


> It may not happen. Hasbro has an exclusive licence to produce APE related
> action figures in North America. As the Simpson's version of the Apes are
> technically POTA, Playmates may not get the rights to do them. As they're
> not posable action figures as such, they may be able to get around the
> 'exclusive' Hasbro deal. But as both properties belong to Fox, they may be
> able to work something out. Personally, I'd love for Playmates to create a
> Simpsons 'environment based on the apes musical w/ Troy McClure and at
least
> Zaius and Nurse ape.
> Best,
> KEN
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <veetus@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 8:37 AM
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Let's play, mate!
>
>
> > I was thumbing through the current issue of "Toyfare" magazine, which
> has
> > the upcoming action figures for the year. Playmates is going to start a
> new
> > "Simpsons" collection called "Mini-Figures". These are sets of small PVC
> > figures and each set is based on an episode. This is our best chance yet
> for
> > figures based on the POTA musical. The first two sets are "Homer at the
> Bat"
> > and "Deep Space Homer" (which had an "Apes" reference) and will be
> available
> > next month. Etc. - - Jeff
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <CheeseGOTAS@...>
> > To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 3:25 PM
> > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Back from the Forbidden Zone
> >
> >
> > > I've been gone for 2 weeks simply because AOL blows. Stay away from
it.
> > >
> > > Anyway...I found some Apes posters in a Video Update dumpster by my
> house.
> > > Pretty nifty, but very soggy. It had rained the night before, so they
> > kind
> > > of smell bad. Whatever, bye.
> > >
> > > -Joe
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

And what about the Kubricks and Medicoms they're planning to market in the
States? Seems to me Fox has got the message people want the original. They
want to woo back the fans and make "Apes" cool again. And there's no better
way to do that then the "Simpsons" connection. Which, by the way, is Fox's
#1 license and they will do whatever they can to satisfy Mr. Groening, who
by the way seems to be a big "Apes" fan. Case closed. Etc. - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: <veetus@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Let's play, mate!


> You're starting to sound like MGM and that "Goldmember" business. Parody
> is protected. Besides, POTA isn't doing Hasbro any favors, they're sitting
> on the shelves. Pretty soon they're going to start sounding like Henny
> Youngman, "Take my license. Please".
> Besides, plenty of licenses get shifted around. Like the "Star Trek"
> Barbies, like the ones right here...er, no I didn't buy them. That's so
> silly you'd suggest that I did. I'm not making sense? YOU'RE not making
> sense. Why would you say I'm behaving strangely? You are.
> - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ken and Heather Taylor" <ktaylor@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 5:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Let's play, mate!
>
>
> > It may not happen. Hasbro has an exclusive licence to produce APE
related
> > action figures in North America. As the Simpson's version of the Apes
are
> > technically POTA, Playmates may not get the rights to do them. As
they're
> > not posable action figures as such, they may be able to get around the
> > 'exclusive' Hasbro deal. But as both properties belong to Fox, they may
be
> > able to work something out. Personally, I'd love for Playmates to create
a
> > Simpsons 'environment based on the apes musical w/ Troy McClure and at
> least
> > Zaius and Nurse ape.
> > Best,
> > KEN
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <veetus@...>
> > To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 8:37 AM
> > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Let's play, mate!
> >
> >
> > > I was thumbing through the current issue of "Toyfare" magazine,
which
> > has
> > > the upcoming action figures for the year. Playmates is going to start
a
> > new
> > > "Simpsons" collection called "Mini-Figures". These are sets of small
PVC
> > > figures and each set is based on an episode. This is our best chance
yet
> > for
> > > figures based on the POTA musical. The first two sets are "Homer at
the
> > Bat"
> > > and "Deep Space Homer" (which had an "Apes" reference) and will be
> > available
> > > next month. Etc. - - Jeff
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <CheeseGOTAS@...>
> > > To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 3:25 PM
> > > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Back from the Forbidden Zone
> > >
> > >
> > > > I've been gone for 2 weeks simply because AOL blows. Stay away from
> it.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway...I found some Apes posters in a Video Update dumpster by my
> > house.
> > > > Pretty nifty, but very soggy. It had rained the night before, so
they
> > > kind
> > > > of smell bad. Whatever, bye.
> > > >
> > > > -Joe
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

This week "Time" and "Newsweek" have their "Star Wars" coverage and,
weird, it got me a little pumped up about "Apes". I read the "Newsweek"
article from their site and it's about how Lucas reportedly learned some
lessons from "The Phantom Menace". It seems to me it's similar to the
mistakes made on POTA2001.

Merchandising: a source says Lucas felt this was the #1 problem, that he
saturated the market. 3/4rths of the "Star Wars" market is collectors
(probably like "Apes"?) and there was just too much to keep track of. And
too much to buy, leaving the partners with warehouses of stuff. Hasbro
("Apes" licensee too) was left with 25% of it's inventory unsold and Lucas
had asked for $650 million for the license for all 3 prequels, plus I think
stock in the company, just from Hasbro. Pepsi had made 8 billion "Star Wars"
cans. This time, Lucas has cut licenses by 2/3rds and there's no food or
soft drink deals. No real relation to "Apes" since the problem wasn't
saturation, just lack of interest.
Lucas has reportedly also addressed the problem in the film. The word is
that "Ep. 2" is a good flick. Lucas marketing said Ep. 1 "did not live up to
expectations...(this one will have)a darker feel, closer to the
original...(with) no silly characters or kids". Lucas swallowed his pride
and got a co-writer. Realized the cheesy tone was bad, that Jar-Jar was bad.
"Cheesy"? Reminds me of a certain recent "Apes" movie.
Lucas also realized that the younger folks, the Gen. Xer's couldn't even
enjoy Ep. 1 as nostalgia because they weren't around when the originals hit.
For them the benchmark was "The Matrix", which hit just before Ep. 1. Lucas
specifically set out to win over this group, actually having fliers put on
college campuses about Yoda, etc. He also brought webmasters into the mix,
getting them involved in the publicity. Similar thing to "Apes", which is of
the same generation as "Star Wars", and not a source of nostalgia to later
folks. Fox stepped on some toes as well, messing with books about the
original flicks (not allowing use of THEIR pictures, etc.) Just like Lucas,
Fox was perceived as a money-hungry rip-off by the fan community.
Anyway, this weekend we heard some bad news about "Ape" sequels. Since
"Star Wars" and "Apes" share the same studio and similar licensees (Hasbro,
Sony Classics, Dark Horse) and many of the same filmmaking faults, is it
possible that Fox might take a cue from Lucas and realize a disappointment
need not be the end of the road if they learn from it. "Apes" did have
support from audiences in the beginning and I think they'd be foolish to
just write it off. I hope it's true that next month we'll see a leaner,
wiser Lucas and I think those in this group would like to see a new "Apes"
that follows suit. May the force of "Apes" be with you. Etc. - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "sand_hill_school" <sand_hill_school@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 12:09 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: End of BATTLE population


> I'll have to check this out to see what you mean. But, do you
> suppose this has something to do with the fact that there were no
> female orangutans or gorillas?
>
> --Helen
>
> --- In pota@y..., "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@y...>
> wrote:
> > Some time ago, there was a debate regarding whether or not Caesar's
> > actions in BATTLE somehow changed the Future. Those who advocated
> this
> > mentioned that the once-"mean" Lawgiver (who wrote the Sacred
> Scrolls
> > quoted in PLANET) had thus been changed into the now-"nice"
> Lawgiver
> > portrayed by John Huston, who reads the Story of Caesar from the
> > scroll of scripture to a mixed-race group of Apes and Humans.
> >
> > In the opening scene, when we hear him speak: "In the Beginning,
> God
> > created Beast and Man..." etc., we end up seeing ONLY this single,
> old
> > orangutan. We don't see his audience.
> > In the ending scene, after we fade from the shot of Caesar telling
> > Mandemus that they must "wait", we again see this "Lawgiver"... and
> > then the camera pans to the right and we finally get to see the
> group
> > of Apes and Humans, living in peace and friendship...
> >
> > The only trouble is that there don't seem to be any gorillas or
> > orangutans in this audience of children. Why not? I see human boys
> and
> > girls; I see chimpanzee boys and girls; I do NOT see any gorilla or
> > orangutan boys and girls, though. If this IS meant to represent a
> > peaceful community of Humans and Apes, then why aren't there
> gorillas
> > or orangutans amongst these children?
> >
> > Could it be that this "Lawgiver" in 2670 A.D. is "bucking a trend",
> > trying to foster the "peace and friendship" Ideal in the face of an
> > opposition (represented by the "missing" orangutans and gorillas)?
> >
> > If somebody out there (James has demonstrated the capability) could
> do
> > some "frame-grabs" of the crowd of children between the Lawgiver on
> > the left and the statue of Caesar on the right, and post them on
> this
> > site, we'll all be able to see what I'm talking about here. One or
> two
> > of the apes look like they might have been intended as gorillas,
> > except for the fact that they're wearing distinctive green trousers
> > (exclusively "chimp" colors).
> >
> > Could it be that this Lawgiver (the only orangutan present in this
> > 2670 A.D. scene) is different from the "mainstream" of orangutan
> > sentiment? Maybe orangutan and gorilla children once were a part of
> > his audience... until the grown-up orangutans and gorillas decided
> > that they didn't like his message of "equality" for Apes and
> Humans;
> > perhaps even at this point there are orangutans and gorillas who
> > consider their respective species to be superior to Humans (and,
> > perhaps, to Chimpanzees as well), and don't wish for their children
> to
> > intermix with them.
> >
> > It's not as if the make-ups for orangutan and gorilla children were
> > not available: aren't there such characters in the "classroom"
> scene,
> > where Teacher ridicules Aldo's handwriting? If they COULD have had
> > orangutan and gorilla children in this end scene (as is the case),
> > then why DIDN'T they?
> >
> > Patrick Michael Tilton
> > EARTH-TIME 4-21-2002
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Attachments :

Yeah, I remember before EP1 came out. The sales on SW toys went through the
roof. But after that film hit the theatres, the toys were at an all time
low. Especially for collectors, the toys they bought before the release were
just about worthless after the release. :o)

The only two I bought were Anakin and Pademay (the little talking figures
with the computer chip) and only because those were the only two that had
the original voices of the actors. (got to be worth something someday) And
strangely enough, no one cought on to that. And now their nowhere to be
found. I bought at least 5 of each.

Best.
Alex

>From: <veetus@...>
>Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Back on the Horse (OT?)
>Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 21:42:45 -0700
>

_____

Yeah,
Toys R Us are doing the midnight opening thing tonight to release the toys
to the public. They got a heap of publicity out of the stunt last time but
as none of the toys were particularly rare, you could stroll in and pick
them up at your leisure the next day......and up to 75% off a few months
after that. So I doubt if it'll be as successful this time around. But you
never can tell with those Star Wars fanatics, they're a strange species.
best,
KEN

----- Original Message -----
From: "Calima 5021" <calima5021com@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 3:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Back on the Horse (OT?)


> Yeah, I remember before EP1 came out. The sales on SW toys went through
the
> roof. But after that film hit the theatres, the toys were at an all time
> low. Especially for collectors, the toys they bought before the release
were
> just about worthless after the release. :o)
>
> The only two I bought were Anakin and Pademay (the little talking figures
> with the computer chip) and only because those were the only two that had
> the original voices of the actors. (got to be worth something someday) And
> strangely enough, no one cought on to that. And now their nowhere to be
> found. I bought at least 5 of each.
>
> Best.
> Alex
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: <veetus@...>
> >Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> >To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> >Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Back on the Horse (OT?)
> >Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 21:42:45 -0700
> >
>
>
>
>
> _____

.html

  Look, as the great William Goldman said about Hollywood, "Nobody knows anything". And I'm only going to charge you $20 for that advice. You won't need software or anything. Etc.           - - - Jeff

I have to agree with you there Jeff.
But I think you misunderstand what they mean by the judgment being bad.  It just means the out come for the main character.  That's all.  It doesn't men the story is bad.  If they had ended with Taylor and Nova riding off into the sunset that would have been a good judgment for the main character.  But it wouldn't have been as memorable a story. 

<.html

.html

This time, Lucas has cut licenses by 2/3rds and there's no food or
soft drink deals. No real relation to "Apes" since the problem wasn't
saturation, just lack of interest.

Where's my Ari collectors cup?

<.html

<<Fox stepped on some toes as well, messing with books about the original flicks (not allowing use of THEIR pictures, etc.) Just like Lucas, Fox was perceived as a money-hungry rip-off by the fan community. >>

This I can attest to. An APES book that I contributed to, THE PLANET OF THE APES CHRONICLES, got screwed toward the end of its production cycle when Fox declared that no pictures from the original movies or television series could be used. All the interior pictures got pulled and the great photo that was supposed to be for the cover got changed to a painting.

I'm not sure what the deal was with other books, but apparently the ones that were already in production or used "behind the scenes" type photos from the different shoots got spared. Any actual scenes from the films/series got pulled, though, so far as I know.

-- Dayton
http://members.aol.com/dwardkc/dwmain.htm

Attachments :

I'll be passing by Toys R' Us tonight.
Just to check out the madness.
This is going to better than visiting to the zoo. :o)

Best.
Al

>From: "Ken and Heather Taylor" <ktaylor@...>
>Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Back on the Horse (OT?)
>Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 16:56:54 +1000
>

_____

Jeff wrote:

<<This time, Lucas has cut licenses by 2/3rds and there's no food or
soft drink deals.>>

Not true. I saw Star Wars Doritos and Gogurt (yogurt) at the grocery store yesterday.

Matt

I was talking about here in Australia, did they do the same thing in the
states?
Best,
KEN

----- Original Message -----
From: "Calima 5021" <calima5021com@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 10:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Back on the Horse (OT?)


> I'll be passing by Toys R' Us tonight.
> Just to check out the madness.
> This is going to better than visiting to the zoo. :o)
>
> Best.
> Al
>
>
> >From: "Ken and Heather Taylor" <ktaylor@...>
> >Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> >To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> >Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Back on the Horse (OT?)
> >Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 16:56:54 +1000
> >
>
>
>
>
> _____

Attachments :

Yeah, midnight is the time.
They did it last time, and now there doing it again.
Today I get out of work close to midnight so I droping by to see all the
caos. :o)

People fighting for star wars toys and making a bomb fire of Jar Jar Binks
toys in the parking lot. :o)

That's Midnight Star Wars toys, Miami Style. :o)

Best.
Al

>From: "Ken and Heather Taylor" <ktaylor@...>
>Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Back on the Horse (OT?)
>Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 06:48:23 +1000
>

_____

I saw the comic book adaptation, it's out already. The toys and music
debut at midnight, the music video tomorrow on MTV, it's on the cover of
"Time". It's like it's coming out on Friday, not a month from now!
- - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Calima 5021" <calima5021com@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Back on the Horse (OT?)


> Yeah, midnight is the time.
> They did it last time, and now there doing it again.
> Today I get out of work close to midnight so I droping by to see all the
> caos. :o)
>
> People fighting for star wars toys and making a bomb fire of Jar Jar Binks
> toys in the parking lot. :o)
>
> That's Midnight Star Wars toys, Miami Style. :o)
>
> Best.
> Al
>
>
>
> >From: "Ken and Heather Taylor" <ktaylor@...>
> >Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> >To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> >Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Back on the Horse (OT?)
> >Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 06:48:23 +1000
> >
>
>
>
>
> _____

Since Rory is out of town for a month I guess I'll be the Joe Russo
informant. Joe called me tonight and mentioned that in Linda Harrison's
"Bracken's World" show there was a segment with Kim Hunter in ape makeup,
filmed during the production of "Escape". Ricardo Montalban and James
Gregory also appeared in this series. Etc. - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Calima 5021" <calima5021com@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Back on the Horse (OT?)


> Yeah, midnight is the time.
> They did it last time, and now there doing it again.
> Today I get out of work close to midnight so I droping by to see all the
> caos. :o)
>
> People fighting for star wars toys and making a bomb fire of Jar Jar Binks
> toys in the parking lot. :o)
>
> That's Midnight Star Wars toys, Miami Style. :o)
>
> Best.
> Al
>
>
>
> >From: "Ken and Heather Taylor" <ktaylor@...>
> >Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> >To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> >Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Back on the Horse (OT?)
> >Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 06:48:23 +1000
> >
>
>
>
>
> _____

Braken's World was canceled in 1970. Maybe it was during the
production of Beneath not Escape.

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> Since Rory is out of town for a month I guess I'll be the Joe
Russo
> informant. Joe called me tonight and mentioned that in Linda
Harrison's
> "Bracken's World" show there was a segment with Kim Hunter in ape
makeup,
> filmed during the production of "Escape". Ricardo Montalban and
James
> Gregory also appeared in this series. Etc. - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Calima 5021" <calima5021com@m...>
> To: <pota@y...>
> Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 2:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Back on the Horse (OT?)
>
>
> > Yeah, midnight is the time.
> > They did it last time, and now there doing it again.
> > Today I get out of work close to midnight so I droping by to see
all the
> > caos. :o)
> >
> > People fighting for star wars toys and making a bomb fire of Jar
Jar Binks
> > toys in the parking lot. :o)
> >
> > That's Midnight Star Wars toys, Miami Style. :o)
> >
> > Best.
> > Al
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "Ken and Heather Taylor" <ktaylor@z...>
> > >Reply-To: pota@y...
> > >To: <pota@y...>
> > >Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Back on the Horse (OT?)
> > >Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 06:48:23 +1000
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _____

I believe "Escape" was filmed in 1970. Joe said "Escape".
- - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 12:33 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Bracken's World


> Braken's World was canceled in 1970. Maybe it was during the
> production of Beneath not Escape.
>
> --- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> > Since Rory is out of town for a month I guess I'll be the Joe
> Russo
> > informant. Joe called me tonight and mentioned that in Linda
> Harrison's
> > "Bracken's World" show there was a segment with Kim Hunter in ape
> makeup,
> > filmed during the production of "Escape". Ricardo Montalban and
> James
> > Gregory also appeared in this series. Etc. - - Jeff
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Calima 5021" <calima5021com@m...>
> > To: <pota@y...>
> > Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 2:04 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Back on the Horse (OT?)
> >
> >
> > > Yeah, midnight is the time.
> > > They did it last time, and now there doing it again.
> > > Today I get out of work close to midnight so I droping by to see
> all the
> > > caos. :o)
> > >
> > > People fighting for star wars toys and making a bomb fire of Jar
> Jar Binks
> > > toys in the parking lot. :o)
> > >
> > > That's Midnight Star Wars toys, Miami Style. :o)
> > >
> > > Best.
> > > Al
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Ken and Heather Taylor" <ktaylor@z...>
> > > >Reply-To: pota@y...
> > > >To: <pota@y...>
> > > >Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Back on the Horse (OT?)
> > > >Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 06:48:23 +1000
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _____

It was filmed at the end of 1970, November & December, "Bracken's
World" was off the air by then.

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> I believe "Escape" was filmed in 1970. Joe said "Escape".
> - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@a...>
> To: <pota@y...>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 12:33 AM
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Bracken's World
>
>
> > Braken's World was canceled in 1970. Maybe it was during the
> > production of Beneath not Escape.
> >
> > --- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> > > Since Rory is out of town for a month I guess I'll be the Joe
> > Russo
> > > informant. Joe called me tonight and mentioned that in Linda
> > Harrison's
> > > "Bracken's World" show there was a segment with Kim Hunter in
ape
> > makeup,
> > > filmed during the production of "Escape". Ricardo Montalban and
> > James
> > > Gregory also appeared in this series. Etc. - - Jeff
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Calima 5021" <calima5021com@m...>
> > > To: <pota@y...>
> > > Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 2:04 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Back on the Horse (OT?)
> > >
> > >
> > > > Yeah, midnight is the time.
> > > > They did it last time, and now there doing it again.
> > > > Today I get out of work close to midnight so I droping by to
see
> > all the
> > > > caos. :o)
> > > >
> > > > People fighting for star wars toys and making a bomb fire of
Jar
> > Jar Binks
> > > > toys in the parking lot. :o)
> > > >
> > > > That's Midnight Star Wars toys, Miami Style. :o)
> > > >
> > > > Best.
> > > > Al
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: "Ken and Heather Taylor" <ktaylor@z...>
> > > > >Reply-To: pota@y...
> > > > >To: <pota@y...>
> > > > >Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Back on the Horse (OT?)
> > > > >Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 06:48:23 +1000
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
_____

Thought you might all be interested in knowing that I interviewed Ricardo
Montalban a couple of days ago for Star Trek Communicator magazine.
Although we primarily discussed the 20th anniversary of Star Trek II, we
did chat a bit about Armando. He was extremely grateful to hear that
people even remember the films -- in fact, he was grateful for everything
he's ever been able to do in his career. He was, without a doubt, one of
the most charismatic and charming people it's ever been my pleasure to
interview. Very, very cool indeed -- and at age 81, still as lucid and
vibrant as ever. In fact, I just got off the phone with another Star Trek
II star, Judson Scott, who had nothing but praise for Montalban. He's sene
him a few weeks ago at some speaking engagement they'd both attended, and
he said Montalban was just as strong and as pleasant now as he was 20 years
ago.

Does anyone else get stuff like this? Below is what someone sent
me... I guess a new way to get me to check out their site. Planet of
the Aps group? LOL
Eileen


Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the planetoftheaps
group.

File : /<font size="5"><font color="#C4B135"><i>Click
here...
Uploaded by : jksdbhfuisd789 <jksdbhfuisd789@...>
Description : Apply for a card here and get a 30-second response.

You can access this file at the URL

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/planetoftheaps/files/%3Cfont%20size%3D%
225%22%3E%3Cfont%20color%3D%22%23C4B135%22%3E%3Ci%3EClick%20here...

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit

http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

jksdbhfuisd789 <jksdbhfuisd789@...>






To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
planetoftheaps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

That's obvious from the "Behind the POTA" doc. Montalban was perhaps the
most eloquent there. He's in "Spy Kids 2" this summer. Etc. - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Handley" <handleyr@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Digest Number 1030


> Thought you might all be interested in knowing that I interviewed Ricardo
> Montalban a couple of days ago for Star Trek Communicator magazine.
> Although we primarily discussed the 20th anniversary of Star Trek II, we
> did chat a bit about Armando. He was extremely grateful to hear that
> people even remember the films -- in fact, he was grateful for everything
> he's ever been able to do in his career. He was, without a doubt, one of
> the most charismatic and charming people it's ever been my pleasure to
> interview. Very, very cool indeed -- and at age 81, still as lucid and
> vibrant as ever. In fact, I just got off the phone with another Star Trek
> II star, Judson Scott, who had nothing but praise for Montalban. He's
sene
> him a few weeks ago at some speaking engagement they'd both attended, and
> he said Montalban was just as strong and as pleasant now as he was 20
years
> ago.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--- In pota@y..., "james611102" <JamesA1102@a...> wrote:

>And how is your interpretation superior? You take one vague line from

a movie that is a mess with all sorts of contradictions to the
original film and that you call a superior interpretation.

--- In pota@y..., "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@y...>
wrote: I may disagree with James' interpretation regarding the
directions on Cornelius' map, but I don't think I'm "superior" to him-
-I think my interpretation is superior to his, in regards to that
detail; incidentally, if they had never made any sequels to PLANET,
then I would agree unequivocally with James and conclude that "right"
= "East" on the map--it's only the line from BENEATH that prompts me
to conclude otherwise.

*** As I've indicated here copious times before, for the sake of the
"mega-POTA-epic novel" that I'm working on, I consider as "canon" not
just the first film (PLANET), but also the 4 sequel films and all 14
episodes of the TV series, and where they don't seem to match up
(through the various "flubs" in them) I am endeavoring to reconcile
them to each other (i.e. "unflubbing" them). Because of this, not only
must I take into account Zaius' line (from PLANET) regarding Dead Lake
being in "our Eastern desert", but I must also take into account
Cornelius' line (from BENEATH) which--NOT "vaguely" but EXPLICITLY--
says that Taylor's last known location is "towards the North". The
ONLY way that BOTH statements can be correct is if the desert on the
Map is BOTH "north" AND "east"--the ocean coastline (of the Forbidden
Zone) being "northeast" of Cornelius and Zira's home in "Ape City".
As I said (above)--IF I were to consider ONLY what is given in PLANET,
then I would agree with you entirely, and consider the "right" side of
the Map as "East" (etc.). Cornelius' line in BENEATH, however, is NOT
"vague"--it's specific (for example, when referring to a location as
"miles away" rather than as, say, "about 40 miles away", one IS being
vague in the former, and specific in the latter; "North" is a specific
direction--not a "vague" one).
I will grant you that BENEATH has some difficult-to-reconcile "flubs"
in it (when compared/contrasted to PLANET), but however "messy" you
think it, it IS "canon" (as far as I'm concerned, anyway). If you want
to ignore BENEATH (as well as the other sequels, too, which hinge on
BENEATH) and consider YOUR interpretation "superior" to mine, then by
all means go right on ahead and do so. But IF you do NOT wish to
ignore BENEATH, then how do you account for Cornelius' seeming
incompetence regarding the cardinal directions on a Map which he
himself (most probably) drew?

Patrick Michael Tilton
EARTH-TIME 4-24-2002

--- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:

>
> Brevity is the soul of wit.

*** Polonius--who said that--was, ironically, the most pedantic,
verbiose abuser of that maxim.

Speaking of "wit", the only thing "witty" about Michael is the
homophony of his last name.
He seems to still want me to apply tongue to his scrotum... yet how
could anybody do so when his (pin)head is so far ensconced inside his
Aussie ass that said scrotum is scrunched against his neck?

I wonder if there are too many "big words" in this message for him to
be able to understand...

Patrick

.html

the most pedantic, verbiose

Sounds like a kindered spirit there, Pat.

<.html

Did you ever consider that when Cornelius said "towards the North",
he did mean north of here but was rather refering to an area of the
map?

--- In pota@y..., "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@y...>
wrote:

> --- In pota@y..., "james611102" <JamesA1102@a...> wrote:
> >And how is your interpretation superior? You take one vague line

from

> a movie that is a mess with all sorts of contradictions to the
> original film and that you call a superior interpretation.
>
> --- In pota@y..., "patrickmichaeltilton"

<patrickmichaeltilton@y...>

> wrote: I may disagree with James' interpretation regarding the
> directions on Cornelius' map, but I don't think I'm "superior" to

him-

> -I think my interpretation is superior to his, in regards to that
> detail; incidentally, if they had never made any sequels to PLANET,
> then I would agree unequivocally with James and conclude

that "right"

> = "East" on the map--it's only the line from BENEATH that prompts

me

> to conclude otherwise.
>
> *** As I've indicated here copious times before, for the sake of

the

> "mega-POTA-epic novel" that I'm working on, I consider as "canon"

not

> just the first film (PLANET), but also the 4 sequel films and all

14

> episodes of the TV series, and where they don't seem to match up
> (through the various "flubs" in them) I am endeavoring to reconcile
> them to each other (i.e. "unflubbing" them). Because of this, not

only

> must I take into account Zaius' line (from PLANET) regarding Dead

Lake

> being in "our Eastern desert", but I must also take into account
> Cornelius' line (from BENEATH) which--NOT "vaguely" but EXPLICITLY--
> says that Taylor's last known location is "towards the North". The
> ONLY way that BOTH statements can be correct is if the desert on

the

> Map is BOTH "north" AND "east"--the ocean coastline (of the

Forbidden

> Zone) being "northeast" of Cornelius and Zira's home in "Ape City".
> As I said (above)--IF I were to consider ONLY what is given in

PLANET,

> then I would agree with you entirely, and consider the "right" side

of

> the Map as "East" (etc.). Cornelius' line in BENEATH, however, is

NOT

> "vague"--it's specific (for example, when referring to a location

as

> "miles away" rather than as, say, "about 40 miles away", one IS

being

> vague in the former, and specific in the latter; "North" is a

specific

> direction--not a "vague" one).
> I will grant you that BENEATH has some difficult-to-

reconcile "flubs"

> in it (when compared/contrasted to PLANET), but however "messy" you
> think it, it IS "canon" (as far as I'm concerned, anyway). If you

want

> to ignore BENEATH (as well as the other sequels, too, which hinge

on

> BENEATH) and consider YOUR interpretation "superior" to mine, then

by

> all means go right on ahead and do so. But IF you do NOT wish to
> ignore BENEATH, then how do you account for Cornelius' seeming
> incompetence regarding the cardinal directions on a Map which he
> himself (most probably) drew?
>
> Patrick Michael Tilton
> EARTH-TIME 4-24-2002

--- In pota@y..., "james611102" <JamesA1102@a...> wrote:

> Did you ever consider that when Cornelius said "towards the North",
> he did mean north of here but was rather refering to an area of the
> map?

*** He said "towards the North" first, and then qualified that by
adding "between the lake and the sea". On the "left" side of the Map,
you have the inhabited green areas (including both the "hunt" area
near the dashed line and the "city of the apes" area); the dashed line
separates this inhabited area on the Left from the Forbidden Zone on
the Right. Within the Forbidden Zone, you have the "inland sea" (as
Zaius calls it), which Cornelius previously referred to as "Dead
Lake". Running along the "bottom" of the Map is the oceanic coastline,
the shore of the "sea" which Cornelius mentions to Brent. The
peninsula jutting Leftward on the Map (bordered "above" by Dead Lake,
"below" by the seashore, and "on the left" by the river which flows
into that ocean/sea) is where the Cave scene takes place--on the shore
of the sea. It is further along this stretch of beach, on the Right of
the Map (since it's in the Forbidden Zone) where Cornelius last saw
Taylor as he and Nova trotted their horse towards the Statue of
Liberty site. Towards the "right" side of the Map... which Cornelius
tells Brent is "towards the North".
I think you're still hung up on the idea that the "top" of a map MUST
somehow be "North", when that is NOT the case 100% of the time; it may
be the conventional way that WE orient our maps, but that does not
mean that Cornelius' map must also share that orientation. Besides, we
have no way of knowing HOW one is supposed to hold that enscrolled
map: Cornelius holds it up by the wooden rod around which the
rectangular map is rolled up... but that's just because in order for
Taylor to describe (nonverbally) his journey from "ship" to "hunt",
Cornelius needs to be on one side of the map (the Left) as Taylor (on
the Right) hand-signs his story (as vocally described by Zira) from
the other side of the map. When rabbis in synagogues read from
ceremonial Torah scrolls, those scrolls are opened up with the "roll-
bars" on the left and right, with the text "scrolling" between the two
vertical rods.
Granted, the "pocket-edition" of the Sacred Scrolls that Zaius has
Cornelius recite from ("Beware the beast Man...") is held with one
roll-bar horizontally aligned, and the other pulled down, the text
unrolling "down". However, I suspect that this "pocket edition" is NOT
the complete Sacred Scrolls (after all, there are at least 29 of these
scrolls--since Zaius has Cornelius recite a passage from "the 29th
Scroll, sixth verse"), but, rather, some short collection of pivotal
passages from the Scrolls--like a modern prayerbook.
Look at the bigger types of scrolls--like the one Zaius refers to
during the Hearing ("Dr. Zira, you state here..." etc.): THOSE types
of larger scrolls unroll to the left and right--just as Torah scrolls
are unrolled in synagogues. If we think of Cornelius' map in a similar
vein, then it is probable that when it is unrolled properly (say, when
it is on a flat tabletop surface), unrolling to the left and right
just like the other larger-sized scrolls, then the ACTUAL "top" would
be the Forbidden Zone desert, separated from the "bottom" area where
the City of the Apes is located--the ocean coast then being on the
RIGHT side of the map--the true "east".
Look again at the pic you posted of Zaius and the President, with
Taylor's statement and the "Zira affidavit" scroll to which Zaius is
referring: the scroll opens horizontally, with the roll-bars acting as
Left and Right borders for the text in-between.

Patrick Michael Tilton
EARTH-TIME 4-24-2002

Jesus Christ!!! , enough about the FUCKING map already!!!! Stop the Planet
of the Apes, I want to get off !
Patrick, I'd hate to be the kid who serves you at McDonald's a 10:31am and
refuses to sell you food from the breakfast menu. The US Postal service also
probably sleeps safely for knowing you don't work there.
Lighten up and move on.
Ken

----- Original Message -----
From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 6:01 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Spelling (OT)


> --- In pota@y..., "james611102" <JamesA1102@a...> wrote:
> > Did you ever consider that when Cornelius said "towards the North",
> > he did mean north of here but was rather refering to an area of the
> > map?
>
> *** He said "towards the North" first, and then qualified that by
> adding "between the lake and the sea". On the "left" side of the Map,
> you have the inhabited green areas (including both the "hunt" area
> near the dashed line and the "city of the apes" area); the dashed line
> separates this inhabited area on the Left from the Forbidden Zone on
> the Right. Within the Forbidden Zone, you have the "inland sea" (as
> Zaius calls it), which Cornelius previously referred to as "Dead
> Lake". Running along the "bottom" of the Map is the oceanic coastline,
> the shore of the "sea" which Cornelius mentions to Brent. The
> peninsula jutting Leftward on the Map (bordered "above" by Dead Lake,
> "below" by the seashore, and "on the left" by the river which flows
> into that ocean/sea) is where the Cave scene takes place--on the shore
> of the sea. It is further along this stretch of beach, on the Right of
> the Map (since it's in the Forbidden Zone) where Cornelius last saw
> Taylor as he and Nova trotted their horse towards the Statue of
> Liberty site. Towards the "right" side of the Map... which Cornelius
> tells Brent is "towards the North".
> I think you're still hung up on the idea that the "top" of a map MUST
> somehow be "North", when that is NOT the case 100% of the time; it may
> be the conventional way that WE orient our maps, but that does not
> mean that Cornelius' map must also share that orientation. Besides, we
> have no way of knowing HOW one is supposed to hold that enscrolled
> map: Cornelius holds it up by the wooden rod around which the
> rectangular map is rolled up... but that's just because in order for
> Taylor to describe (nonverbally) his journey from "ship" to "hunt",
> Cornelius needs to be on one side of the map (the Left) as Taylor (on
> the Right) hand-signs his story (as vocally described by Zira) from
> the other side of the map. When rabbis in synagogues read from
> ceremonial Torah scrolls, those scrolls are opened up with the "roll-
> bars" on the left and right, with the text "scrolling" between the two
> vertical rods.
> Granted, the "pocket-edition" of the Sacred Scrolls that Zaius has
> Cornelius recite from ("Beware the beast Man...") is held with one
> roll-bar horizontally aligned, and the other pulled down, the text
> unrolling "down". However, I suspect that this "pocket edition" is NOT
> the complete Sacred Scrolls (after all, there are at least 29 of these
> scrolls--since Zaius has Cornelius recite a passage from "the 29th
> Scroll, sixth verse"), but, rather, some short collection of pivotal
> passages from the Scrolls--like a modern prayerbook.
> Look at the bigger types of scrolls--like the one Zaius refers to
> during the Hearing ("Dr. Zira, you state here..." etc.): THOSE types
> of larger scrolls unroll to the left and right--just as Torah scrolls
> are unrolled in synagogues. If we think of Cornelius' map in a similar
> vein, then it is probable that when it is unrolled properly (say, when
> it is on a flat tabletop surface), unrolling to the left and right
> just like the other larger-sized scrolls, then the ACTUAL "top" would
> be the Forbidden Zone desert, separated from the "bottom" area where
> the City of the Apes is located--the ocean coast then being on the
> RIGHT side of the map--the true "east".
> Look again at the pic you posted of Zaius and the President, with
> Taylor's statement and the "Zira affidavit" scroll to which Zaius is
> referring: the scroll opens horizontally, with the roll-bars acting as
> Left and Right borders for the text in-between.
>
> Patrick Michael Tilton
> EARTH-TIME 4-24-2002
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Can you imagine the elaborate crap that would spew forth from his mouth?

"Depending on which part of the world you choose, it is actually well before
10:30" etc until you cave in from boredom (like "are we talking EARTH
TIME?"). And we'll call this joint New KFC while we're here - it is human
nature (oh yeah, let's quote a few sources to back up that evidence and
REALLY bore them...).

At least when Patrick is licking my nuts his voice is muffled!

By the way, Pat (do you mind if I call you Pat?....it sounds like what one
might do to a dog....), I think my wit is giving a lot of people on this
group a great laugh at your expense. Actually, they have told me as such
personally.

Your Pal, Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken and Heather Taylor [ktaylor@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, 23 April 2002 20:37
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Spelling (OT)
>
>
> Jesus Christ!!! , enough about the FUCKING map already!!!! Stop the Planet
> of the Apes, I want to get off !
> Patrick, I'd hate to be the kid who serves you at McDonald's a 10:31am and
> refuses to sell you food from the breakfast menu. The US Postal
> service also
> probably sleeps safely for knowing you don't work there.
> Lighten up and move on.
> Ken
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 6:01 PM
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Spelling (OT)
>
>
> > --- In pota@y..., "james611102" <JamesA1102@a...> wrote:
> > > Did you ever consider that when Cornelius said "towards the North",
> > > he did mean north of here but was rather refering to an area of the
> > > map?
> >
> > *** He said "towards the North" first, and then qualified that by
> > adding "between the lake and the sea". On the "left" side of the Map,
> > you have the inhabited green areas (including both the "hunt" area
> > near the dashed line and the "city of the apes" area); the dashed line
> > separates this inhabited area on the Left from the Forbidden Zone on
> > the Right. Within the Forbidden Zone, you have the "inland sea" (as
> > Zaius calls it), which Cornelius previously referred to as "Dead
> > Lake". Running along the "bottom" of the Map is the oceanic coastline,
> > the shore of the "sea" which Cornelius mentions to Brent. The
> > peninsula jutting Leftward on the Map (bordered "above" by Dead Lake,
> > "below" by the seashore, and "on the left" by the river which flows
> > into that ocean/sea) is where the Cave scene takes place--on the shore
> > of the sea. It is further along this stretch of beach, on the Right of
> > the Map (since it's in the Forbidden Zone) where Cornelius last saw
> > Taylor as he and Nova trotted their horse towards the Statue of
> > Liberty site. Towards the "right" side of the Map... which Cornelius
> > tells Brent is "towards the North".
> > I think you're still hung up on the idea that the "top" of a map MUST
> > somehow be "North", when that is NOT the case 100% of the time; it may
> > be the conventional way that WE orient our maps, but that does not
> > mean that Cornelius' map must also share that orientation. Besides, we
> > have no way of knowing HOW one is supposed to hold that enscrolled
> > map: Cornelius holds it up by the wooden rod around which the
> > rectangular map is rolled up... but that's just because in order for
> > Taylor to describe (nonverbally) his journey from "ship" to "hunt",
> > Cornelius needs to be on one side of the map (the Left) as Taylor (on
> > the Right) hand-signs his story (as vocally described by Zira) from
> > the other side of the map. When rabbis in synagogues read from
> > ceremonial Torah scrolls, those scrolls are opened up with the "roll-
> > bars" on the left and right, with the text "scrolling" between the two
> > vertical rods.
> > Granted, the "pocket-edition" of the Sacred Scrolls that Zaius has
> > Cornelius recite from ("Beware the beast Man...") is held with one
> > roll-bar horizontally aligned, and the other pulled down, the text
> > unrolling "down". However, I suspect that this "pocket edition" is NOT
> > the complete Sacred Scrolls (after all, there are at least 29 of these
> > scrolls--since Zaius has Cornelius recite a passage from "the 29th
> > Scroll, sixth verse"), but, rather, some short collection of pivotal
> > passages from the Scrolls--like a modern prayerbook.
> > Look at the bigger types of scrolls--like the one Zaius refers to
> > during the Hearing ("Dr. Zira, you state here..." etc.): THOSE types
> > of larger scrolls unroll to the left and right--just as Torah scrolls
> > are unrolled in synagogues. If we think of Cornelius' map in a similar
> > vein, then it is probable that when it is unrolled properly (say, when
> > it is on a flat tabletop surface), unrolling to the left and right
> > just like the other larger-sized scrolls, then the ACTUAL "top" would
> > be the Forbidden Zone desert, separated from the "bottom" area where
> > the City of the Apes is located--the ocean coast then being on the
> > RIGHT side of the map--the true "east".
> > Look again at the pic you posted of Zaius and the President, with
> > Taylor's statement and the "Zira affidavit" scroll to which Zaius is
> > referring: the scroll opens horizontally, with the roll-bars acting as
> > Left and Right borders for the text in-between.
> >
> > Patrick Michael Tilton
> > EARTH-TIME 4-24-2002
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Hey Alex,

Did you get the email asking you about transferring cassette tape to
digital?

Do you know about this or should I ask someone else?

Michael

You're the one that clings to the opinion that one vague line in
Beneath changes everything that was established in Planet. You have
no evidence to support that the map was turned sideways. There's
absolutely nothing in either film to suggest that. And every scroll
in the film had the roll bar at the top. Go look at the trial scene
again.
You're just reading in what you want to read in to it instead of
weighing all the available evidence before making an interpetation.
You're like a FOX news anchor. You make up your mind first. Then you
twist what ever little shred of fact agrees with you and disregard
the rest.

--- In pota@y..., "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@y...>
wrote:

> --- In pota@y..., "james611102" <JamesA1102@a...> wrote:
> > Did you ever consider that when Cornelius said "towards the

North",

> > he did mean north of here but was rather refering to an area of

the

> > map?
>
> *** He said "towards the North" first, and then qualified that by
> adding "between the lake and the sea". On the "left" side of the

Map,

> you have the inhabited green areas (including both the "hunt" area
> near the dashed line and the "city of the apes" area); the dashed

line

> separates this inhabited area on the Left from the Forbidden Zone

on

> the Right. Within the Forbidden Zone, you have the "inland sea" (as
> Zaius calls it), which Cornelius previously referred to as "Dead
> Lake". Running along the "bottom" of the Map is the oceanic

coastline,

> the shore of the "sea" which Cornelius mentions to Brent. The
> peninsula jutting Leftward on the Map (bordered "above" by Dead

Lake,

> "below" by the seashore, and "on the left" by the river which flows
> into that ocean/sea) is where the Cave scene takes place--on the

shore

> of the sea. It is further along this stretch of beach, on the Right

of

> the Map (since it's in the Forbidden Zone) where Cornelius last saw
> Taylor as he and Nova trotted their horse towards the Statue of
> Liberty site. Towards the "right" side of the Map... which

Cornelius

> tells Brent is "towards the North".
> I think you're still hung up on the idea that the "top" of a map

MUST

> somehow be "North", when that is NOT the case 100% of the time; it

may

> be the conventional way that WE orient our maps, but that does not
> mean that Cornelius' map must also share that orientation. Besides,

we

> have no way of knowing HOW one is supposed to hold that enscrolled
> map: Cornelius holds it up by the wooden rod around which the
> rectangular map is rolled up... but that's just because in order

for

> Taylor to describe (nonverbally) his journey from "ship" to "hunt",
> Cornelius needs to be on one side of the map (the Left) as Taylor

(on

> the Right) hand-signs his story (as vocally described by Zira) from
> the other side of the map. When rabbis in synagogues read from
> ceremonial Torah scrolls, those scrolls are opened up with

the "roll-

> bars" on the left and right, with the text "scrolling" between the

two

> vertical rods.
> Granted, the "pocket-edition" of the Sacred Scrolls that Zaius has
> Cornelius recite from ("Beware the beast Man...") is held with one
> roll-bar horizontally aligned, and the other pulled down, the text
> unrolling "down". However, I suspect that this "pocket edition" is

NOT

> the complete Sacred Scrolls (after all, there are at least 29 of

these

> scrolls--since Zaius has Cornelius recite a passage from "the 29th
> Scroll, sixth verse"), but, rather, some short collection of

pivotal

> passages from the Scrolls--like a modern prayerbook.
> Look at the bigger types of scrolls--like the one Zaius refers to
> during the Hearing ("Dr. Zira, you state here..." etc.): THOSE

types

> of larger scrolls unroll to the left and right--just as Torah

scrolls

> are unrolled in synagogues. If we think of Cornelius' map in a

similar

> vein, then it is probable that when it is unrolled properly (say,

when

> it is on a flat tabletop surface), unrolling to the left and right
> just like the other larger-sized scrolls, then the ACTUAL "top"

would

> be the Forbidden Zone desert, separated from the "bottom" area

where

> the City of the Apes is located--the ocean coast then being on the
> RIGHT side of the map--the true "east".
> Look again at the pic you posted of Zaius and the President, with
> Taylor's statement and the "Zira affidavit" scroll to which Zaius

is

> referring: the scroll opens horizontally, with the roll-bars acting

as

> Left and Right borders for the text in-between.
>
> Patrick Michael Tilton
> EARTH-TIME 4-24-2002

Attachments :

No I didn't see that e-mail.
It would be possible, but the quality will come out just as good as the tape
itself. I'm sure it can be done a lot better, but of course you'd have to
have the right hardware for it. Expensive hardware.

Best.
Alex

P.S. What did you have in mind?

>From: "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...>
>Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Paging Alex Ruiz
>Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 21:17:21 +1000
>

_____

Aw, c'mon. Patrick's words can be interesting (and they're easy to delete
if you don't want to read them) and they don't call Michael "witty" for
nothing, so lets get back to being fans, not foes.
- - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 4:17 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] That FUCKING map!


> Can you imagine the elaborate crap that would spew forth from his mouth?
>
> "Depending on which part of the world you choose, it is actually well
before
> 10:30" etc until you cave in from boredom (like "are we talking EARTH
> TIME?"). And we'll call this joint New KFC while we're here - it is human
> nature (oh yeah, let's quote a few sources to back up that evidence and
> REALLY bore them...).
>
> At least when Patrick is licking my nuts his voice is muffled!
>
> By the way, Pat (do you mind if I call you Pat?....it sounds like what one
> might do to a dog....), I think my wit is giving a lot of people on this
> group a great laugh at your expense. Actually, they have told me as such
> personally.
>
> Your Pal, Michael
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ken and Heather Taylor [ktaylor@...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, 23 April 2002 20:37
> > To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Spelling (OT)
> >
> >
> > Jesus Christ!!! , enough about the FUCKING map already!!!! Stop the
Planet
> > of the Apes, I want to get off !
> > Patrick, I'd hate to be the kid who serves you at McDonald's a 10:31am
and
> > refuses to sell you food from the breakfast menu. The US Postal
> > service also
> > probably sleeps safely for knowing you don't work there.
> > Lighten up and move on.
> > Ken
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
> > To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 6:01 PM
> > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Spelling (OT)
> >
> >
> > > --- In pota@y..., "james611102" <JamesA1102@a...> wrote:
> > > > Did you ever consider that when Cornelius said "towards the North",
> > > > he did mean north of here but was rather refering to an area of the
> > > > map?
> > >
> > > *** He said "towards the North" first, and then qualified that by
> > > adding "between the lake and the sea". On the "left" side of the Map,
> > > you have the inhabited green areas (including both the "hunt" area
> > > near the dashed line and the "city of the apes" area); the dashed line
> > > separates this inhabited area on the Left from the Forbidden Zone on
> > > the Right. Within the Forbidden Zone, you have the "inland sea" (as
> > > Zaius calls it), which Cornelius previously referred to as "Dead
> > > Lake". Running along the "bottom" of the Map is the oceanic coastline,
> > > the shore of the "sea" which Cornelius mentions to Brent. The
> > > peninsula jutting Leftward on the Map (bordered "above" by Dead Lake,
> > > "below" by the seashore, and "on the left" by the river which flows
> > > into that ocean/sea) is where the Cave scene takes place--on the shore
> > > of the sea. It is further along this stretch of beach, on the Right of
> > > the Map (since it's in the Forbidden Zone) where Cornelius last saw
> > > Taylor as he and Nova trotted their horse towards the Statue of
> > > Liberty site. Towards the "right" side of the Map... which Cornelius
> > > tells Brent is "towards the North".
> > > I think you're still hung up on the idea that the "top" of a map MUST
> > > somehow be "North", when that is NOT the case 100% of the time; it may
> > > be the conventional way that WE orient our maps, but that does not
> > > mean that Cornelius' map must also share that orientation. Besides, we
> > > have no way of knowing HOW one is supposed to hold that enscrolled
> > > map: Cornelius holds it up by the wooden rod around which the
> > > rectangular map is rolled up... but that's just because in order for
> > > Taylor to describe (nonverbally) his journey from "ship" to "hunt",
> > > Cornelius needs to be on one side of the map (the Left) as Taylor (on
> > > the Right) hand-signs his story (as vocally described by Zira) from
> > > the other side of the map. When rabbis in synagogues read from
> > > ceremonial Torah scrolls, those scrolls are opened up with the "roll-
> > > bars" on the left and right, with the text "scrolling" between the two
> > > vertical rods.
> > > Granted, the "pocket-edition" of the Sacred Scrolls that Zaius has
> > > Cornelius recite from ("Beware the beast Man...") is held with one
> > > roll-bar horizontally aligned, and the other pulled down, the text
> > > unrolling "down". However, I suspect that this "pocket edition" is NOT
> > > the complete Sacred Scrolls (after all, there are at least 29 of these
> > > scrolls--since Zaius has Cornelius recite a passage from "the 29th
> > > Scroll, sixth verse"), but, rather, some short collection of pivotal
> > > passages from the Scrolls--like a modern prayerbook.
> > > Look at the bigger types of scrolls--like the one Zaius refers to
> > > during the Hearing ("Dr. Zira, you state here..." etc.): THOSE types
> > > of larger scrolls unroll to the left and right--just as Torah scrolls
> > > are unrolled in synagogues. If we think of Cornelius' map in a similar
> > > vein, then it is probable that when it is unrolled properly (say, when
> > > it is on a flat tabletop surface), unrolling to the left and right
> > > just like the other larger-sized scrolls, then the ACTUAL "top" would
> > > be the Forbidden Zone desert, separated from the "bottom" area where
> > > the City of the Apes is located--the ocean coast then being on the
> > > RIGHT side of the map--the true "east".
> > > Look again at the pic you posted of Zaius and the President, with
> > > Taylor's statement and the "Zira affidavit" scroll to which Zaius is
> > > referring: the scroll opens horizontally, with the roll-bars acting as
> > > Left and Right borders for the text in-between.
> > >
> > > Patrick Michael Tilton
> > > EARTH-TIME 4-24-2002
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

>nothing, so lets get back to being fans, not foes.
> - - - Jeff

I'll second that. Once a cycle of flames starts it's hard to stop and
eventually the whole mailing list (any mailing list) can suffer. Personally
one of the things I've liked about the POTA mailing list is that it tends
to be free from attacks and insults except for lighthearted ones. I haven't
paid much attention to the map discussions I just skip posts that I don't
want to read or don't have time to read as I think most people do.

Can't we all just get along? -Rodney Orangutan

.html

P.S. What did you have in mind?

I think what they are referring to is the post I made a while back in response to someone else's post about how they wished they could get the cartoons on DVD, but that it would probably never happen.  I suggested that since you were compiling all the ape stuff to DVD that maybe you could get some fair quality tapes of them from Terry or someone and do the transfer.  I for one haven't seen the things since they were aired and wouldn't mind seeing them again.  What are you thoughts on the matter?

<.html

OK. I love you Jeff.

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: veetus@... [veetus@...]
> Sent: Thursday, 25 April 2002 1:10
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] That FUCKING map!
>
>
> Aw, c'mon. Patrick's words can be interesting (and they're easy
> to delete
> if you don't want to read them) and they don't call Michael "witty" for
> nothing, so lets get back to being fans, not foes.
> - - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 4:17 AM
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] That FUCKING map!
>
>
> > Can you imagine the elaborate crap that would spew forth from his mouth?
> >
> > "Depending on which part of the world you choose, it is actually well
> before
> > 10:30" etc until you cave in from boredom (like "are we talking EARTH
> > TIME?"). And we'll call this joint New KFC while we're here -
> it is human
> > nature (oh yeah, let's quote a few sources to back up that evidence and
> > REALLY bore them...).
> >
> > At least when Patrick is licking my nuts his voice is muffled!
> >
> > By the way, Pat (do you mind if I call you Pat?....it sounds
> like what one
> > might do to a dog....), I think my wit is giving a lot of people on this
> > group a great laugh at your expense. Actually, they have told
> me as such
> > personally.
> >
> > Your Pal, Michael
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Ken and Heather Taylor [ktaylor@...]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, 23 April 2002 20:37
> > > To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Spelling (OT)
> > >
> > >
> > > Jesus Christ!!! , enough about the FUCKING map already!!!! Stop the
> Planet
> > > of the Apes, I want to get off !
> > > Patrick, I'd hate to be the kid who serves you at McDonald's a 10:31am
> and
> > > refuses to sell you food from the breakfast menu. The US Postal
> > > service also
> > > probably sleeps safely for knowing you don't work there.
> > > Lighten up and move on.
> > > Ken
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
> > > To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 6:01 PM
> > > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Spelling (OT)
> > >
> > >
> > > > --- In pota@y..., "james611102" <JamesA1102@a...> wrote:
> > > > > Did you ever consider that when Cornelius said "towards
> the North",
> > > > > he did mean north of here but was rather refering to an
> area of the
> > > > > map?
> > > >
> > > > *** He said "towards the North" first, and then qualified that by
> > > > adding "between the lake and the sea". On the "left" side
> of the Map,
> > > > you have the inhabited green areas (including both the "hunt" area
> > > > near the dashed line and the "city of the apes" area); the
> dashed line
> > > > separates this inhabited area on the Left from the Forbidden Zone on
> > > > the Right. Within the Forbidden Zone, you have the "inland sea" (as
> > > > Zaius calls it), which Cornelius previously referred to as "Dead
> > > > Lake". Running along the "bottom" of the Map is the oceanic
> coastline,
> > > > the shore of the "sea" which Cornelius mentions to Brent. The
> > > > peninsula jutting Leftward on the Map (bordered "above" by
> Dead Lake,
> > > > "below" by the seashore, and "on the left" by the river which flows
> > > > into that ocean/sea) is where the Cave scene takes
> place--on the shore
> > > > of the sea. It is further along this stretch of beach, on
> the Right of
> > > > the Map (since it's in the Forbidden Zone) where Cornelius last saw
> > > > Taylor as he and Nova trotted their horse towards the Statue of
> > > > Liberty site. Towards the "right" side of the Map... which Cornelius
> > > > tells Brent is "towards the North".
> > > > I think you're still hung up on the idea that the "top" of
> a map MUST
> > > > somehow be "North", when that is NOT the case 100% of the
> time; it may
> > > > be the conventional way that WE orient our maps, but that does not
> > > > mean that Cornelius' map must also share that orientation.
> Besides, we
> > > > have no way of knowing HOW one is supposed to hold that enscrolled
> > > > map: Cornelius holds it up by the wooden rod around which the
> > > > rectangular map is rolled up... but that's just because in order for
> > > > Taylor to describe (nonverbally) his journey from "ship" to "hunt",
> > > > Cornelius needs to be on one side of the map (the Left) as
> Taylor (on
> > > > the Right) hand-signs his story (as vocally described by Zira) from
> > > > the other side of the map. When rabbis in synagogues read from
> > > > ceremonial Torah scrolls, those scrolls are opened up with
> the "roll-
> > > > bars" on the left and right, with the text "scrolling"
> between the two
> > > > vertical rods.
> > > > Granted, the "pocket-edition" of the Sacred Scrolls that Zaius has
> > > > Cornelius recite from ("Beware the beast Man...") is held with one
> > > > roll-bar horizontally aligned, and the other pulled down, the text
> > > > unrolling "down". However, I suspect that this "pocket
> edition" is NOT
> > > > the complete Sacred Scrolls (after all, there are at least
> 29 of these
> > > > scrolls--since Zaius has Cornelius recite a passage from "the 29th
> > > > Scroll, sixth verse"), but, rather, some short collection of pivotal
> > > > passages from the Scrolls--like a modern prayerbook.
> > > > Look at the bigger types of scrolls--like the one Zaius refers to
> > > > during the Hearing ("Dr. Zira, you state here..." etc.): THOSE types
> > > > of larger scrolls unroll to the left and right--just as
> Torah scrolls
> > > > are unrolled in synagogues. If we think of Cornelius' map
> in a similar
> > > > vein, then it is probable that when it is unrolled properly
> (say, when
> > > > it is on a flat tabletop surface), unrolling to the left and right
> > > > just like the other larger-sized scrolls, then the ACTUAL
> "top" would
> > > > be the Forbidden Zone desert, separated from the "bottom" area where
> > > > the City of the Apes is located--the ocean coast then being on the
> > > > RIGHT side of the map--the true "east".
> > > > Look again at the pic you posted of Zaius and the President, with
> > > > Taylor's statement and the "Zira affidavit" scroll to which Zaius is
> > > > referring: the scroll opens horizontally, with the
> roll-bars acting as
> > > > Left and Right borders for the text in-between.
> > > >
> > > > Patrick Michael Tilton
> > > > EARTH-TIME 4-24-2002
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

>
>

Yes absolutely.

I think Patrick and I can send each other PRIVATE emails to insult each
other from now on so the rest of the group does not get too bored.

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Melkor [melkor@...]
> Sent: Thursday, 25 April 2002 5:41
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] That FUCKING map!
>
>
> >nothing, so lets get back to being fans, not foes.
> > - - - Jeff
>
>
> I'll second that. Once a cycle of flames starts it's hard to stop and
> eventually the whole mailing list (any mailing list) can suffer.
> Personally
> one of the things I've liked about the POTA mailing list is that it tends
> to be free from attacks and insults except for lighthearted ones.
> I haven't
> paid much attention to the map discussions I just skip posts that I don't
> want to read or don't have time to read as I think most people do.
>
> Can't we all just get along? -Rodney Orangutan
>
>
>
>
>

Hi Al

I am referring to my cassette tapes of the Power Records recordings. I want
to either copy them to CD or maybe even make them downloadable over the net.

Any ideas?

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Calima 5021 [calima5021com@...]
> Sent: Thursday, 25 April 2002 0:13
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Paging Alex Ruiz
>
>
> No I didn't see that e-mail.
> It would be possible, but the quality will come out just as good
> as the tape
> itself. I'm sure it can be done a lot better, but of course you'd have to
> have the right hardware for it. Expensive hardware.
>
> Best.
> Alex
>
> P.S. What did you have in mind?
>
>
>
> >From: "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...>
> >Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> >To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> >Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Paging Alex Ruiz
> >Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 21:17:21 +1000
> >
>
>
>
>
> _____

.html<.html

.html

Boys, boys... you must come up with a better topic than picking on Patrick!

You're right Lynne!
On the days when posts are slow he does give you some reading material.

<.html

Michael, please. Not in front of the group. Are you still coming over
Friday night? Love, Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 2:18 PM
Subject: RE: [Planet of the Apes] That FUCKING map!


> OK. I love you Jeff.
>
> Michael
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: veetus@... [veetus@...]
> > Sent: Thursday, 25 April 2002 1:10
> > To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] That FUCKING map!
> >
> >
> > Aw, c'mon. Patrick's words can be interesting (and they're easy
> > to delete
> > if you don't want to read them) and they don't call Michael "witty" for
> > nothing, so lets get back to being fans, not foes.
> > - - - Jeff
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...>
> > To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 4:17 AM
> > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] That FUCKING map!
> >
> >
> > > Can you imagine the elaborate crap that would spew forth from his
mouth?
> > >
> > > "Depending on which part of the world you choose, it is actually well
> > before
> > > 10:30" etc until you cave in from boredom (like "are we talking EARTH
> > > TIME?"). And we'll call this joint New KFC while we're here -
> > it is human
> > > nature (oh yeah, let's quote a few sources to back up that evidence
and
> > > REALLY bore them...).
> > >
> > > At least when Patrick is licking my nuts his voice is muffled!
> > >
> > > By the way, Pat (do you mind if I call you Pat?....it sounds
> > like what one
> > > might do to a dog....), I think my wit is giving a lot of people on
this
> > > group a great laugh at your expense. Actually, they have told
> > me as such
> > > personally.
> > >
> > > Your Pal, Michael
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Ken and Heather Taylor [ktaylor@...]
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, 23 April 2002 20:37
> > > > To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Spelling (OT)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Jesus Christ!!! , enough about the FUCKING map already!!!! Stop the
> > Planet
> > > > of the Apes, I want to get off !
> > > > Patrick, I'd hate to be the kid who serves you at McDonald's a
10:31am
> > and
> > > > refuses to sell you food from the breakfast menu. The US Postal
> > > > service also
> > > > probably sleeps safely for knowing you don't work there.
> > > > Lighten up and move on.
> > > > Ken
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
> > > > To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 6:01 PM
> > > > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Spelling (OT)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > --- In pota@y..., "james611102" <JamesA1102@a...> wrote:
> > > > > > Did you ever consider that when Cornelius said "towards
> > the North",
> > > > > > he did mean north of here but was rather refering to an
> > area of the
> > > > > > map?
> > > > >
> > > > > *** He said "towards the North" first, and then qualified that by
> > > > > adding "between the lake and the sea". On the "left" side
> > of the Map,
> > > > > you have the inhabited green areas (including both the "hunt" area
> > > > > near the dashed line and the "city of the apes" area); the
> > dashed line
> > > > > separates this inhabited area on the Left from the Forbidden Zone
on
> > > > > the Right. Within the Forbidden Zone, you have the "inland sea"
(as
> > > > > Zaius calls it), which Cornelius previously referred to as "Dead
> > > > > Lake". Running along the "bottom" of the Map is the oceanic
> > coastline,
> > > > > the shore of the "sea" which Cornelius mentions to Brent. The
> > > > > peninsula jutting Leftward on the Map (bordered "above" by
> > Dead Lake,
> > > > > "below" by the seashore, and "on the left" by the river which
flows
> > > > > into that ocean/sea) is where the Cave scene takes
> > place--on the shore
> > > > > of the sea. It is further along this stretch of beach, on
> > the Right of
> > > > > the Map (since it's in the Forbidden Zone) where Cornelius last
saw
> > > > > Taylor as he and Nova trotted their horse towards the Statue of
> > > > > Liberty site. Towards the "right" side of the Map... which
Cornelius
> > > > > tells Brent is "towards the North".
> > > > > I think you're still hung up on the idea that the "top" of
> > a map MUST
> > > > > somehow be "North", when that is NOT the case 100% of the
> > time; it may
> > > > > be the conventional way that WE orient our maps, but that does not
> > > > > mean that Cornelius' map must also share that orientation.
> > Besides, we
> > > > > have no way of knowing HOW one is supposed to hold that enscrolled
> > > > > map: Cornelius holds it up by the wooden rod around which the
> > > > > rectangular map is rolled up... but that's just because in order
for
> > > > > Taylor to describe (nonverbally) his journey from "ship" to
"hunt",
> > > > > Cornelius needs to be on one side of the map (the Left) as
> > Taylor (on
> > > > > the Right) hand-signs his story (as vocally described by Zira)
from
> > > > > the other side of the map. When rabbis in synagogues read from
> > > > > ceremonial Torah scrolls, those scrolls are opened up with
> > the "roll-
> > > > > bars" on the left and right, with the text "scrolling"
> > between the two
> > > > > vertical rods.
> > > > > Granted, the "pocket-edition" of the Sacred Scrolls that Zaius has
> > > > > Cornelius recite from ("Beware the beast Man...") is held with one
> > > > > roll-bar horizontally aligned, and the other pulled down, the text
> > > > > unrolling "down". However, I suspect that this "pocket
> > edition" is NOT
> > > > > the complete Sacred Scrolls (after all, there are at least
> > 29 of these
> > > > > scrolls--since Zaius has Cornelius recite a passage from "the 29th
> > > > > Scroll, sixth verse"), but, rather, some short collection of
pivotal
> > > > > passages from the Scrolls--like a modern prayerbook.
> > > > > Look at the bigger types of scrolls--like the one Zaius refers to
> > > > > during the Hearing ("Dr. Zira, you state here..." etc.): THOSE
types
> > > > > of larger scrolls unroll to the left and right--just as
> > Torah scrolls
> > > > > are unrolled in synagogues. If we think of Cornelius' map
> > in a similar
> > > > > vein, then it is probable that when it is unrolled properly
> > (say, when
> > > > > it is on a flat tabletop surface), unrolling to the left and right
> > > > > just like the other larger-sized scrolls, then the ACTUAL
> > "top" would
> > > > > be the Forbidden Zone desert, separated from the "bottom" area
where
> > > > > the City of the Apes is located--the ocean coast then being on the
> > > > > RIGHT side of the map--the true "east".
> > > > > Look again at the pic you posted of Zaius and the President, with
> > > > > Taylor's statement and the "Zira affidavit" scroll to which Zaius
is
> > > > > referring: the scroll opens horizontally, with the
> > roll-bars acting as
> > > > > Left and Right borders for the text in-between.
> > > > >
> > > > > Patrick Michael Tilton
> > > > > EARTH-TIME 4-24-2002
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>