.html  

Put enough of you there, taking away from either wing's strength, and the damn

bird's gonna drop like a stone unfortunately.

On the contrary.  The only way the Libertarian Party is ever going to fly is if you get enough people on board.  Until then it's disadvantage will be self perpetuating.  The only time anyone ever votes Libertarian is as a protest vote for fear of throwing their vote away.



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .
<.html

Maybe it was a Civil War, seeing as USA seems to be the world for the
purpose of every POTA movie.

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Melkor [melkor@...]
> Sent: Friday, 7 June 2002 4:45
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: thoughts on a post-BATTLE conundrum
>
>
> >*** Caesar's revolt (i.e. the revolt of "apes on the five continents"
> >against human oppression) may very well have been the "cause" of the
> >war, as far as Kolp is concerned; but to suggest that Caesar, by
> >seizing power in one single city, was the catalyst for a NUCLEAR war
> >that wipes out human civilization, is going a bit too far. The Ape
> >Revolt against enslavement must have taken some time to spread--not
> >just days or weeks.
>
> We simply don't know whether there were any other ape revolts
> because it is
> never mentioned in BATTLE. You can assume that but it wouldn't
> be "canon".
> All Caesar had done was defeat a city police force. There might have been
> other ape revolts, but without a nuclear war there is no way Caesar's few
> hundred apes who can't yet talk could hold out very long against the
> millions of federal troops in the US military. The fact that the
> American government had not yet revealed the existence of the Alpha-Omega
> bomb even though its sole purpose was to be the ultimate deterent
> to nuclear
> war suggest that the war came from a sneak attack, not an escalation of
> tensions. Kolp and Mendez knew what the Alpha-Omega bomb was, but Alma
> didn't have a clue.
>
>
>
> >The apes who were transported overseas to America, it seems, are NOT
> >"primitive" apes who can't speak at all, but seem to be TALKING apes
> >who just don't know English yet... and are prudent enough to shun the
>
> That assumption is clearly not intended. The genetically altered apes
> only exist in POTA 2001. The premise of the movies is the same premise
> as the books: That apes had the capacity for intelligence all along
> but they required extensive contacts with human civilization to realize
> that intelligence. That may not be true in reality but it is true in
> the POTA movie and book universe and is a central premise of the book.
>
>
> >I agree that there's all sorts of stories that take place between
> >CONQUEST and BATTLE, but I agree with Mandemus that there's some 27
> >years of time between those two stories.
>
> So do I.
>
>
> >I don't think that the
> >Russians or the Chinese (or whoever) would automatically lob ICBMs
> >over into America just because of a bunch of ape slaves had trashed
>
> I wouldn't think that would be likely either, but we don't know
> what else was
> happening at the time and when you add up all the various clues it points
> toward some kind of sneak attack shortly after CONQUEST. (1) The
> survival of
> Caesar's ape revolt from CONQUEST. (2) The fact that Alma and
> others didn't
> know about the Alpha/Omega bomb. (3) Kolp blaming Ceasar for
> weakening them.
>
>
>
>
>

You can't blame this one on me Michael.

--- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> For obvious reasons, I strongly suggest we try to stay away from
discussing
> religious or political opinions unless of course it is directly
related to
> POTA.
>
> It just causes too much agro and this group does not need it.
>
> Michael
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: LordTZer0@A... [LordTZer0@A...]
> Sent: Friday, 7 June 2002 1:57
> To: pota@y...
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Heston's politics & POTA
[somewhat OT]
>
>
>
> Put enough of you there, taking away from either wing's
strength, and
> the damn
>
> bird's gonna drop like a stone unfortunately.
>
> On the contrary. The only way the Libertarian Party is ever going
to fly is
> if you get enough people on board. Until then it's disadvantage
will be
> self perpetuating. The only time anyone ever votes Libertarian is
as a
> protest vote for fear of throwing their vote away.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.

Yes, I know James.

I even refrained from resorting to childish obscenities this time!

It really is hard to just talk POTA and I understand that. And we
all have a political stance. And POTA has a political/social message.

But the better topics to avoid, even between close friends who have
known each other for years, are politics and religion (ie personal
stances). It is just common sense to avoid these topics,
particularly when, by their nature, an opinion is often imposed upon
someone rather than sensibly offered for evaluation.

I really think sometimes we might need to get a theme going here -
properly planned to keep us on track. For example, make the theme of
this month "Planet", next month "Beneath" and so on then start on
toys, posters, and other related items.

How does everyone feel about this?

It offers a logical, structured format, but of course there will
still be other points and topics made, we will just have the
motivation to stick to a certain theme.

The pattern with this group seems to be a lot of inactivity, a spurt
of activity, losing the goal (chatting Apes) then monkey shit fights.

Maybe this idea will help to control that a bit.

COMMENTS?

Michael


--- "james611102" <JamesA1102@...> wrote:

> You can't blame this one on me Michael.
>
> --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > For obvious reasons, I strongly suggest we try to stay away from
> discussing
> > religious or political opinions unless of course it is directly
> related to
> > POTA.
> >
> > It just causes too much agro and this group does not need it.
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: LordTZer0@A... [LordTZer0@A...]
> > Sent: Friday, 7 June 2002 1:57
> > To: pota@y...
> > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Heston's politics & POTA
> [somewhat OT]
> >
> >
> >
> > Put enough of you there, taking away from either wing's
> strength, and
> > the damn
> >
> > bird's gonna drop like a stone unfortunately.
> >
> > On the contrary. The only way the Libertarian Party is ever

going

> to fly is
> > if you get enough people on board. Until then it's disadvantage
> will be
> > self perpetuating. The only time anyone ever votes Libertarian

is

> as a
> > protest vote for fear of throwing their vote away.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>
> ------------------------ ---------------------

~-->

> Kwick Pick opens locked car doors,
> front doors, drawers, briefcases,
> padlocks, and more. On sale now!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/ehaLqB/Fg5DAA/Ey.GAA/9_IolB/TM
> --------------------------------------------------------------------

-~->

>
>
>
>

>
>
>

I'm not saying the gun scene is supposed to be a comment on Heston's
politics (was he an NRA icon back then?) but that's how it's seen today. But
the gun saves his ass in the movie, though weapons didn't save humanity. An
ambiguous stand to be sure.
Etc. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Melkor" <melkor@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 10:38 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] POTA weapons


>
> >Heston's NRA stance on guns isn't exactly against the "philosophy" of
> >the POTA series (at least, the 1st film): as Taylor, he endures all
> >sorts of degrading experiences... but when he acquires a gun of his
> >own, after Zira & Lucius smuggle him out to Cornelius' wagon of
>
> Anyone in Taylor's position would want a gun at that point. I really
don't see
> any political symbolism intended there. It was necessary for Taylor to
have a
> gun for the story plot and he was a colonel in the military. Although
present
> day audiences may think of Heston's NRA stance there Heston didn't write
the
> script he only played the role.
>
> Aside from the Alpha-Omega bomb in BENEATH, to find the POTA movie that
makes
> statements about weapons look in BATTLE.
>
> Mandemus: There, every weapon is back in its proper place [in the
armory]...
> now that the danger is over I want to see it [the armory]
destroyed.
> Virgil: The greatest danger of all is that the danger never ends.
> Caesar: And so, Mandemus, we must be patient and wait.
> Lawgiver: We still wait...
>
> This is interesting because it's the only time in the POTA movies where
the
> more liberal viewpoint (unilarteral disamrament) loses to the less liberal
> viewpoint. All four characters are liberals, but Mandemus is an extreme
> liberal who is advocating unilateral disarmament. Virgil and Caesar agree
that
> they need to keep their weapons for self defense, but consider the weapons
> dangerous and believe they need to be kept under control. Weapons are a
> necessary evil but their existence, along with the military industrial
complex
> and its effect on society which was big concern in 1972 are "the greatest
> danger of all".
>
>
>

I think Mr. T wants the sequel to be a 3D movie.
- - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: <LordTZer0@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 1:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Apes Script


> That's how I see it too but only because nothing else makes any sense.
>
> -Tom
>
> You're thinking too two dimensionally.
>
>
>
>
>
>

You bring up a valid point.

Surely other important things were happening at other places during
the already recorded times. Why not a fresh point of view? A
gorilla family, or orangutans? Why in America? Why not across the
world?

Is it necessary for a "sequel" to post-date (or pre-date as in a
prequel) what is already recorded?

Are some of you actually considering POTA 2001 as "Cannon"? ARG!!
They should dismiss it as a mirror image parallel world type thing --
rename any sequels to 2001 as "Mirror Planet" or something -- and
backtrack. Clean it up. Ape-ologize!

--Helen

--- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> Maybe it was a Civil War, seeing as USA seems to be the world for
the
> purpose of every POTA movie.
>
> Michael
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Melkor [melkor@m...]
> > Sent: Friday, 7 June 2002 4:45
> > To: pota@y...
> > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: thoughts on a post-BATTLE
conundrum
> >
> >
> > >*** Caesar's revolt (i.e. the revolt of "apes on the five
continents"
> > >against human oppression) may very well have been the "cause" of
the
> > >war, as far as Kolp is concerned; but to suggest that Caesar, by
> > >seizing power in one single city, was the catalyst for a NUCLEAR
war
> > >that wipes out human civilization, is going a bit too far. The
Ape
> > >Revolt against enslavement must have taken some time to spread--
not
> > >just days or weeks.
> >
> > We simply don't know whether there were any other ape revolts
> > because it is
> > never mentioned in BATTLE. You can assume that but it wouldn't
> > be "canon".
> > All Caesar had done was defeat a city police force. There might
have been
> > other ape revolts, but without a nuclear war there is no way
Caesar's few
> > hundred apes who can't yet talk could hold out very long against
the
> > millions of federal troops in the US military. The fact that the
> > American government had not yet revealed the existence of the
Alpha-Omega
> > bomb even though its sole purpose was to be the ultimate deterent
> > to nuclear
> > war suggest that the war came from a sneak attack, not an
escalation of
> > tensions. Kolp and Mendez knew what the Alpha-Omega bomb was,
but Alma
> > didn't have a clue.
> >
> >
> >
> > >The apes who were transported overseas to America, it seems, are
NOT
> > >"primitive" apes who can't speak at all, but seem to be TALKING
apes
> > >who just don't know English yet... and are prudent enough to
shun the
> >
> > That assumption is clearly not intended. The genetically altered
apes
> > only exist in POTA 2001. The premise of the movies is the same
premise
> > as the books: That apes had the capacity for intelligence all
along
> > but they required extensive contacts with human civilization to
realize
> > that intelligence. That may not be true in reality but it is
true in
> > the POTA movie and book universe and is a central premise of the
book.
> >
> >
> > >I agree that there's all sorts of stories that take place between
> > >CONQUEST and BATTLE, but I agree with Mandemus that there's some
27
> > >years of time between those two stories.
> >
> > So do I.
> >
> >
> > >I don't think that the
> > >Russians or the Chinese (or whoever) would automatically lob
ICBMs
> > >over into America just because of a bunch of ape slaves had
trashed
> >
> > I wouldn't think that would be likely either, but we don't know
> > what else was
> > happening at the time and when you add up all the various clues
it points
> > toward some kind of sneak attack shortly after CONQUEST. (1) The
> > survival of
> > Caesar's ape revolt from CONQUEST. (2) The fact that Alma and
> > others didn't
> > know about the Alpha/Omega bomb. (3) Kolp blaming Ceasar for
> > weakening them.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

I think Mr. T wants the sequel to be a 3D movie.

Well, as cool as that would be, and that would be way cool, I think Apes
stories have to be along the lines of, to borrow an idea from the Star Trek
series, 3D chess. Although some of the characters from the new film were
rather 2 dimensional.

Why in America? Why not across the world?

Well, apart from the Russians, we're the only ones doing serious space
exploration, so the ships tend to come back here. Thank God. I don't think
I could take a Russian Apes movie after seeing their version of 2001,
whatever that thing was called.

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 8:58 AM

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Heston's politics & POTA [somewhat OT]

 

 

Put enough of you there, taking away from either wing's strength, and the damn

  bird's gonna drop like a stone unfortunately.

On the contrary.  The only way the Libertarian Party is ever going to fly is if you get enough people on board.  Until then it's disadvantage will be self perpetuating.  The only time anyone ever votes Libertarian is as a protest vote for fear of throwing their vote away.

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Anthony B. McElveen

Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 11:07 AM

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Ape Font

 

I made a font called Apes that is based on the classic title font. The
numbers aren't finished, but it has a lot of extras to make up for that.
It's in Mac format, so it will probably have to be converted. Email if
you want it.

ABMAC

On Thursday, June 6, 2002, at 11:37  AM, Eileen Rankin wrote:

> I have a font called Oberon and another called Planet... I guess
> they're knockoffs, but they're pretty cool.
> ---eileenmarierankin 

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: whitty@...

Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 4:39 PM

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Politics & POTA [somewhat OT]

 

Yes, I know James.

I even refrained from resorting to childish obscenities this time!

It really is hard to just talk POTA and I understand that.  And we
all have a political stance.  And POTA has a political/social message.

But the better topics to avoid, even between close friends who have
known each other for years, are politics and religion (ie personal
stances).  It is just common sense to avoid these topics,
particularly when, by their nature, an opinion is often imposed upon
someone rather than sensibly offered for evaluation.

I really think sometimes we might need to get a theme going here -
properly planned to keep us on track.  For example, make the theme of
this month "Planet", next month "Beneath" and so on then start on
toys, posters, and other related items.

How does everyone feel about this?

It offers a logical, structured format, but of course there will
still be other points and topics made, we will just have the
motivation to stick to a certain theme.

The pattern with this group seems to be a lot of inactivity, a spurt
of activity, losing the goal (chatting Apes) then monkey shit fights.

Maybe this idea will help to control that a bit.

COMMENTS?

Michael


--- "james611102" <JamesA1102@...> wrote:
> You can't blame this one on me Michael.
>
> --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > For obvious reasons, I strongly suggest we try to stay away from
> discussing
> > religious or political opinions unless of course it is directly
> related to
> > POTA.
> >
> > It just causes too much agro and this group does not need it.
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: LordTZer0@A... [LordTZer0@A...]
> > Sent: Friday, 7 June 2002 1:57
> > To: pota@y...
> > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Heston's politics & POTA
> [somewhat OT]
> >
> >
> >
> >     Put enough of you there, taking away from either wing's
> strength, and
> > the damn
> >
> >  bird's gonna drop like a stone unfortunately.
> >
> > On the contrary.  The only way the Libertarian Party is ever
going
> to fly is
> > if you get enough people on board.  Until then it's disadvantage
> will be
> > self perpetuating.  The only time anyone ever votes Libertarian
is
> as a
> > protest vote for fear of throwing their vote away.
> >
> >
> >
> >            
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
-~->
>
> 
>
>

<.html

The Krueger Collection. :o)

Okay, gang. Here's an Update.
Sir Jeff Krueger, just sent me a great collection of his home videos on
Planet of the Apes Conventions and Parties. This is the greatest stuff I've
ever seen! About 3 hours worth of home videos along with some great
televised stuff. Finally I'm now able to make a real Classic Planet of the
Apes DVDs for the fans, thanks to, Sir Jeff Krueger.

GOD DAMN, JEFF! Your the best!
I am not worthy! :o)

As soon as I place this on DVD, I'll be offering this to the group, so stay
tuned.

The Battle UNcut, won't be shipped out until this coming monday. Sorry for
the delay, but burning a DVD takes up to an hour each and I fell a bit
behind. Burning 4.7 gigs takes its time, but non the less there all now
complete and I'll have the time this weekend to post and ship ready for
monday.

Holy Moly, Jeff.
That was really something, thanks again. Hope you enjoy my DVDs.

Jeff's, DVD Collection will be called, THE KRUEGER COLLECTION.
COMING SOON...:o)

Best.
Al






_____

Hey, Jeff.
In your Home Videos. Who were the two in the Ceasar Speech?
I know one was Eric Greene in the makeup, but who was the other trying to
climb the tree?

GOD, I loved that!
That was great!

Dude! You Rule!

Best.
Al


_____

http://cagle.slate.msn.com/mondo/mondoguns.asp

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> Heston said in his bio ("In the Arena") that he was a Democrat
up until
> Lyndon Johnson was president, then he turned the corner. It was
the '64
> election. Pg. 353-354: He'd pass a billboard every day for
Goldwater that
> said, "In Your Heart, You Know He's Right". It was when Heston was
making
> Schaffner's "The War Lord", which also had Maurice Evans. He
says," I'd
> believed very deeply in President Kennedy's capacity to lead the
country,
> even after the Bay of Pigs and his careful distancing from Dr.
King on the
> Washington March. It seemed to me that President Johnson was the
best man to
> carry out his agenda". But there was the billboard. ..."one
morning there
> was a convoy of trucks coming through the crossroad (where the
billboard
> was). As we waited, I experienced a true revelation, almost an
epiphany,
> like St. Paul on the road to Damascus. I looked at that photograph
of
> Goldwater and said softly, "Son of a bitch...he IS right!" And I
knew he
> was...People say to me "You had a political change of heart,
didn't you?"
> No, I don't think I did. I think the Democratic Party had a change
of heart.
> To my mind, the Democrats I voted for and worked for couldn't be
nominated
> by their party today, including Jack Kennedy".
> I've seen "Apes" in a theatre quite a few times in recent years
and the
> scene where Taylor isists on keeping the gun always gets a big
reaction.
> Audiences love it and it's mirror on Heston's politics.
> - - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@y...>
> To: <pota@y...>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 9:52 PM
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Heston's politics & POTA [somewhat
OT]
>
>
> > *** Heston has a reputation, earned over the last couple
decades, of
> > being a "staunch conservative", which implies that he buys into
ALL of
> > the agenda that conservative spokespersons (i.e. Rush Limbaugh,
etc.)
> > tend to endorse. Personally, I think that Heston is conservative
on
> > more issues that concern him politically, hence his endorsement
of
> > Republicans in most (all?) major elections. Yet he marched with
Martin
> > Luther King, which wasn't exactly a "conservative" thing to do.
> > Heston's NRA stance on guns isn't exactly against
the "philosophy" of
> > the POTA series (at least, the 1st film): as Taylor, he endures
all
> > sorts of degrading experiences... but when he acquires a gun of
his
> > own, after Zira & Lucius smuggle him out to Cornelius' wagon of
> > supplies, he becomes empowered to protect himself from any
further
> > harassment by Zaius' gorilla forces. Why did Cornelius bring guns
> > along, unless he anticipated having to use them later on? Is he
afraid
> > of wild animals? When Taylor aims his gun at Zaius, Cornelius
tries to
> > get him to put the rifle down... why? Doesn't he know that Zaius'
> > gorillas will shoot Taylor dead, given the chance? The only thing
> > keeping Taylor alive at this point--and keeping Cornelius and
Zira
> > from immediate arrest--is Taylor's having a gun, and pointing it
at
> > Zaius. That rifle "leveled the playing field", and I'm sure that
> > Heston in particular appreciated that aspect of the story.
> >
> > I tend to find myself endorsing the platform of the Libertarian
party,
> > a political party that can best be summed up as "fiscally
conservative
> > yet socially liberal". I find the "Right Wing/Left Wing" schism
in our
> > country to be disturbing; the American symbol--the Eagle--can't
fly as
> > high or as far with only one of its wings, regardless of which
one
> > [right or left] it flaps... it needs both. Yet it could live
with both
> > wings cut off: it just couldn't fly, then.
> >
> > I tend to find myself disagreeing vehemently with "liberals" who
have
> > agendas regarding Gun Control and Welfare (to state two
examples) that
> > I feel are anathema to the Constitution and to the "values" of
> > traditional Americanism (i.e. rewarding laziness rather than hard
> > work); I also tend to find myself disagreeing vehemently with
> > "conservatives" whose agenda regarding Organized Religion (to
state
> > just one example) flies in the face of the principles upon which
our
> > Republic was founded (by a group of Rationalists who were
primarily
> > Deists who did not want the U.S. government entangled with
religion--
> > as the Constitution plainly shows). When anti-Evolutionist, pro-
> > Creationist, School-Prayer advocating, Free-Speech suppressing
> > Christian religious fanatics became a sizeable bloc in the
Republican
> > party, it made it that much more difficult for an agnostic like
me to
> > want ANY Republican to get elected, regardless of his/her
virtues,
> > since voting Republican (at least, during the Reagan years) went
part-
> > and-parcel with empowering the Jerry Falwell/Pat Robertson types
out
> > there.
> >
> > Happily, the trend of history has been such as to advance the
socially
> > "liberal" agenda with which I agree (pro-1st Amendment, etc.),
as well
> > as the "conservative" agenda regarding topics such as Gun Control
> > (which NO politician, after 9/11, will ever dare to espouse,
since gun
> > sales skyrocketed after the Al-Qaeda attacks). Getting rid of
guns is
> > an impossibility--and if "liberals" were successful, outlaws
would
> > easily outgun law-abiding citizens (as well as the police), and
> > foreign aggressors would be all-the-more willing to fight us,
since we
> > couldn't shoot back; I think that executing murderers is the best
> > deterrent to gun violence (yeah, yeah, I know that the "experts"
claim
> > that it isn't a deterrent, but it sure as hell prevents convicted
> > murderers from killing again), and if executions were public--
> > broadcast on CNN, FOX news, etc.--then the creeps out there
> > contemplating the use of a gun in a crime just might think
twice...
> > [by the way, did anybody else see the pics of the Columbine
killers in
> > the NAT'L ENQUIRER, as I did? I think those pics should be
required
> > viewing in all high schools: show any other potential school-age
> > would-be murderers what their dead bodies will look like, when
the
> > shooting's done].
> >
> > Hmmm... I seem to be ranting here. I better sign off before "T"
gives
> > me a hard time about it.
> >
> > Patrick
> >
> > --- In pota@y..., "Melkor" <melkor@m...> wrote:
> > > It was common in the 1960's for movies to have a liberal
viewpoint, and
> still
> > > is I guess. I doubt that Heston thought much about the
politics while
> he was
> > > making the film, it was just an interesting role for him.
Nowadays it
> seems
> > > ironic that Heston played a big role in POTA. But it is not
so ironic
> when
> > > you consider that Jacobs wanted Heston precisely because of
his earlier
> roles
> > > in defending western values, so that this subordinate
situation in POTA
> would
> > > pack more of a punch.
> > >
> > > Zanuck was always clueless, which is probably one reason POTA
2001
> turned out
> > > so bad. All Zanuck gets credit for is for finally allowing
Jacobs to
> make POTA
> > > and for getting Linda Harrison in the movie.
> > >
> > > -Tom
> > >
> > >
> > > > Good points, though Heston apparently didn't have a problem
with it,
> and
> > > >Zanuck didn't see any message at all. I thought Heston was a
good sport
> in
> > > >POTA2001, though maybe he didn't notice it was playing with
his gun
> stance.
> > > >Etc. - - - Jeff
> > > >
> > > >> I am not really thrilled about off topic posts so I'll try
to steer
> this
> > > >back
> > > >> to something topic related. Sci-fi often sneaks in
poltical satire,
> and
> > > >POTA
> > > >> is the most politicized sci-fi series ever, so politics
will come up
> once
> > > >in
> > > >> awhile. The amount of politics in POTA is as high as
Gulliver's
> Travels
> > > >and
> > > >> Animal Farm, and it's no accident that POTA came out in the
60's and
> early
> > > >> 70's.
> > > >>
> > > >> POTA is essentially one big bash of conservatism and that
> > > >anti-conservative
> > > >> theme is consistent and relentless. Given writers like
Mike Wilson
> and
> > > >Paul
> > > >> Dehn that's no surpise. This anti-conservatism is the one
consistent
> > > >thing
> > > >> about the movie series, tv series, book, and even POTA 2001
and the
> > > >cartoon
> > > >> series. I've always thought it would be hard for a
conservative to
> be
> > > >more
> > > >> than a casual POTA fan. Watch it enough and people will
soon notice
> that
> > > >the
> > > >> villians in the POTA stories are neither the humans nor the
apes,
> they are
> > > >> consistently the conservatives of each. Even in the
original movie
> Taylor
> > > >> criticizes human conservatives both before "does
man...still make war
> > > >against
> > > >> his brother, and keep his neighbor's children starving?"
and after
> "you
> > > >bloody
> > > >> bastards!" he meets the apes. Taylor also laughs at the
conservative
> > > >Landon
> > > >> for planting an American flag on the planet, and starts
criticizing
> him
> > > >later
> > > >> "you were the golden boy of the class of 72". This is the
same
> Landon who
> > > >> later is given a lobotomy.
> > >

Jeff <veetus@...> wrote:

>Ok, the Paramount movie is "The Warriors". "Journey to the Center of

the >Earth" is still the Zanucks and Fox (actually Fox 2000).

Trivia question: what links the two films above, "Planet of the Apes",
and "The Time Machine"?

Answer: THEY ARE ALL GREAT FILMS TO START WITH, RENDERING REMAKES AND
RE-IMAGINATIONS COMPLETELY POINTLESS!!! HOLLYWOOD, PLEASE STOP!!!

Alan

"Eileen Rankin" <emr1623@...> wrote:

>fair enough about the off topic discussions, but I don't think we

need to >have structured discussions on monthly topics. when you get
together with >friends for the weekend or for dinner, do you say
"tonight we will discuss >only Battle..." or basketball, for that
matter.

True, but the advantage is that although you pick one topic to start
with, it will invariably bring up others, and lead to whole new
discussions anyway. It's really just a starting point.

Alan

http://cagle.slate.msn.com/mondo/mondoguns.asp

What's this supposed to be?

It's called a joke which means:
1 a : something said or done to provoke laughter; esp : a brief oral
narrative with a climactic humorous twist
b (1) : the humorous or ridiculous element in something
(2) : an instance of jesting

--- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> http://cagle.slate.msn.com/mondo/mondoguns.asp
>
> What's this supposed to be?

.htmlIn a message dated 6/6/2002 6:38:36 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

It really is hard to just talk POTA and I understand that.  And we
all have a political stance.  And POTA has a political/social message.

But the better topics to avoid, even between close friends who have
known each other for years, are politics and religion (ie personal
stances).  It is just common sense to avoid these topics,
particularly when, by their nature, an opinion is often imposed upon
someone rather than sensibly offered for evaluation.

Well said. I agree with this one 100%.
I really think sometimes we might need to get a theme going here -
properly planned to keep us on track.  For example, make the theme of
this month "Planet", next month "Beneath" and so on then start on
toys, posters, and other related items.

How does everyone feel about this?
Again, well said. I'd go along with this type of discussion.
It offers a logical, structured format, but of course there will
still be other points and topics made, we will just have the
motivation to stick to a certain theme.

The pattern with this group seems to be a lot of inactivity, a spurt
of activity, losing the goal (chatting Apes) then monkey shit fights.

Maybe this idea will help to control that a bit.

COMMENTS?
I agree. It's like I said in a post awhile back, this is supposed to be the Planet of the Apes message board, NOT the "Hollywood Reporter", "Entertainment Tonight", or as of late,  "Rush Limbaugh" or "The O'Reilly Factor."
Michael

<.html

You're welcome, Alex. Glad you like them. Alex was kind enough to send me
the uncut version of "Playmate of the Apes". But it's not necessary to call
me "Sir". Just as Ari was demoted from princess, consider me a Senator's
daughter. Etc. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Calima 5021" <calima5021com@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 7:32 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] DVDs Update


>
> The Krueger Collection. :o)
>
> Okay, gang. Here's an Update.
> Sir Jeff Krueger, just sent me a great collection of his home videos on
> Planet of the Apes Conventions and Parties. This is the greatest stuff
I've
> ever seen! About 3 hours worth of home videos along with some great
> televised stuff. Finally I'm now able to make a real Classic Planet of the
> Apes DVDs for the fans, thanks to, Sir Jeff Krueger.
>
> GOD DAMN, JEFF! Your the best!
> I am not worthy! :o)
>
> As soon as I place this on DVD, I'll be offering this to the group, so
stay
> tuned.
>
> The Battle UNcut, won't be shipped out until this coming monday. Sorry for
> the delay, but burning a DVD takes up to an hour each and I fell a bit
> behind. Burning 4.7 gigs takes its time, but non the less there all now
> complete and I'll have the time this weekend to post and ship ready for
> monday.
>
> Holy Moly, Jeff.
> That was really something, thanks again. Hope you enjoy my DVDs.
>
> Jeff's, DVD Collection will be called, THE KRUEGER COLLECTION.
> COMING SOON...:o)
>
> Best.
> Al
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _____

Hilarryass

Rory, if your back.
Send me your mailing address and I'll send you the Battle UNcut this monday
as well.

Best.
Al


_____

--- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:

> the American symbol--the Eagle--can't fly as high or as far

with only one

> of its
> wings, regardless of which one [right or left] it flaps... it needs

both.

>
> That's what I'm talkin' 'bout. Like My POLI SCI Prof once said, I

find thing

> wrong with both parties. And right with both parties. If I could

I'd cut

> out the bad parts and stitch the good parts together. That

would be a

> monster no power or principality could stand against. OUT OF

MY WAY, OR I'LL

> DROP A WASHER/DRYER ON YOU! AAARRGGGHH!!!
> Anyway, when the constitution says: A well regulated Militia,

being necessary

> to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep

and bear

> Arms shall not be infringed.
> They weren't talking about they freakin' Army! Or the National

Guard!

> They're talking about getting people out of their beds at night

for

> emergencies! And if you get someone out of their bed and

night and tell 'em

> to bring their guns, you are definitely in DEEP DOO DOO! The

People are the

> last line of defense. If that fails it's every man for himself. And

you

> better have practiced up on a zombie blasting game because if

it gets worse,

> that's how bad it would be. Some say that talk of Militias is an
> anachronism, or that that's not what the founding fathers

intended, or that

> they couldn't have foreseen modern times. But this is exactly

the reason we

> left Britain in the first place! It wasn't just freedom of speech,

assembly

> or religion. Only the nobility and their men could keep and bear

Arms.

> That's why they have a Coat of Arms. It was their entitlement to

have guns

> and swords. And that's why no one could oppose them. They

were defenseless.

> The word Nazi was bandied about here lately. Well, one of the

first things

> the nazis did was to impose gun control, so no one could

oppose them. So if

> you wanted to be a "Good German" you'd better comply.
> That's the thin end of the wedge. Thank God here in America

we have checks

> and balances to keep tyrannical oppressors at bay. And the

one thing such

> people fear, is The People. And well armed ones. Not the anti

gun ones.

> They can keep them in line with a few bribes and miniguns.
> I often wonder if the whole reason for nuke, isn't fear of the

other side,

> but fear of their own side. And, when the powers that be are all

hunkered in

> the bunkers, they can push the button on the other side to get

them to shoot

> back and take care of their problems for them over here. Then

they can just

> hide, like Morlocks or The Mole People, fucking Playboy

Bunnies like rabbits,

> until the radioactive dust settles, or their nads drop off! But

that's doom

> talk! And with India and Pakistan poised on the brink of

nuclear war this

> screed has gone on long enough!

*** I agree wholeheartedly. But, just to play "advocatus diaboli"
for gits and shiggles, let me pose a question:
Since the 2nd Amendment refers to "arms" (the word "guns" is
never used), should this one word mean ALL types of weaponry?
Remember back in Carter's administration, the "SALT" treaty?
"SALT" stood for "Strategic Arms Limitation Talks", and the "A"
word ("Arms") referred to NUCLEAR armaments. If the word
"Arms" can be used to refer to Nukes, then isn't it linguistically
justifiable to declare that private citizens have--according to the
2nd Amendment--a RIGHT to "keep and bear" nuclear bombs?
Back in 1787, when the Constitution was ratified, nobody then
had the slightest idea that a Nuclear bomb was even
theoretically possible, and I doubt if they would have allowed the
word "arms" to be applied to it if they HAD imagined such a
weapon. Yet those same Framers did not anticipate the Uzi
submachinegun, either... would they have wanted the word
"arms" to refer to THAT, too?
If they could have foreseen the mass production of weapons that
can kill hundreds of people in a single minute (such as an Uzi),
would the Framers have taken more care to clarify their intent in
the language of the 2nd Amendment? It seems to me that it is
this very sort of conundrum that the Framers knew they could not
anticipate--hence, their creating a Constitution that their posterity
could amend, in order to better the condition of the country (or, as
they themselves put it in the Preamble: "in order to form A MORE
PERFECT Union", i.e. a Union that undergoes changes,
"amendments", until it approaches Perfection gradually).
The 2nd Amendment doesn't call for absolutely NO gun control
(which is what some of the so-called "gun freaks" seem to think),
rather, it calls for a "well-regulated" militia. Not NO regulation, not
OVER regulation, but GOOD regulation (the word "well" as in
"well done!" or "a well-received performance", etc.). Clearly, the
Framers intended the issue of Arms to have SOME regulation
involved in the matter--but they wanted the regulations, the rules,
the Laws (if you will), to be GOOD laws. They didn't want
absolutely NO laws; they didn't want TOO MANY laws; they
wanted laws that were GOOD, laws that WORKED, laws that
aided the People in their "pursuit of happiness" (the actual
Reason behind the creation of our government in the first place,
according to the Declaration).
In regards to the mis-use of firearms (such as by the Columbine
killers), I think that the law should be able to punish those who
were responsible for the behavior of those who owned or used
the guns: the Parents. If a 5-year old kid throws a rock through a
neighbour's window, obviously the kid doesn't have the cash to
recompense the neighbour--but the kid's parents do. It is the
duty of the kid's parents to make restitution for their brat's
behavior. The same goes for the Columbine killers. They were
living with their parents, weren't they? They weren't yet legally
adults, were they? So, then, their parents--who brought them into
the world--were responsible for their mis-behaviors. I think that
the families of the victims should be able to sue the parents of
those Columbine killers--bankrupt them. If other parents of
"troubled teens" knew that their entire monetary holdings
could/would be confiscated if their kids were to commit similar
murders, perhaps they would do a better job of
parenting--including keeping guns locked up and out of the
reach of their kids, as well as monitoring their kids' activities
(such as Bomb-making, for Christ's sake!).

In regards to the Pakistan/India nuclear possibility, let me just
say this: IF one side escalates the conflict into the Nuclear
sphere, then their actions--however they may try to justify them
due to "self-protection" or Defense--will have effects on other
countries which have no stake in the "contested-Kashmir"
brouhaha. Probably ALL of the countries of the world will be
affected by the fallout from a Nuke exchange in southern Asia,
and neither Pakistan nor India has the right to "defend" itself in
such a way as to harm any other country not involved in the
matter. The USA should tell both of those countries that ANY use
of nuclear weapons by EITHER side will be considered an act of
war against the people of the United States, who would be
affected by the radioactive fallout that inevitably would make its
way even to American territory. Since the purpose of our Armed
forces is to protect the lives of American citizens, such a "threat"
of US retaliation against other countries that might use nukes is
justifiable; the effects of Nuclear war go beyond the borders of
any two warring countries--they are GLOBAL effects.

Patrick Michael Tilton
EARTH-TIME 6-08-2002

--- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:

> How else are we to explain how Lisa--who, undoubtedly, had

been shipped over

> from "A-for-Africa, ex French Cameroons" (or some such)--is

able to

> actually SPEAK the word "No!"
>
> That's Nothing! I saw a young chimpette, at the Hogle Zoo in

Salt Lake, say

> 'Hello'. Now she had to hold her nose in order to do it, but it

was clear

> and distinct! So I wouldn't think that saying the single syllable

'No' would

> be much of a problem.

*** In BATTLE, Lisa not only is able to speak monosyllables like
"No", but also complete fluent English sentences. That involves
syntax, and the vocal apparatus that "primitive" chimps just plain
don't have. Lisa--like all the "intelligent" apes in BATTLE--is an
"evolved" ape, of the same species as Cornelius, Zira, and Milo
(since she's able to breed with the son of C & Z). Where did
these three species of intelligent chimpanzees, orangutans and
gorillas come from? How did they arrive on the scene in the late
20th Century? That is a question that was never answered in the
POTA film series. It couldn't have been the brief amount of
selective breeding in the "Breeding Annex" places (like the one in
CONQUEST), since selective breeding of the sort would require
at the very least HUNDREDS of generations to produce a
significantly different outcome. Maybe the use of transgenics
could do it in a few generations... MAYBE. But this would require
the laboratory infusion of genetic material from another species
(human? "alien"? hmmm...) into the spermatozoan or ovum prior
to transplanting of the now-altered "fertilized" egg into a
host-mother's uterus.
My mega-POTA-novel will, of course, go into a fair amount of
detail to "explain" in a scientifically plausible way how
Mandemus, Virgil, Aldo, Lisa (etc.) and their respective "evolved"
species were able to come into existence.

Patrick Michael Tilton
EARTH-TIME 6-08-2002

.html

Since the 2nd Amendment refers to "arms" (the word "guns" is
never used), should this one word mean ALL types of weaponry?

Well, I think it would include swords, which at the time were actually carried for more than just decoration.  But Uzis?  Well, if the US was in an Israel type situation, with a nut case at every turn, then maybe you give those farmers Uzis.  I think that nukes is carrying it too far.  How does and individual defend themselves with a nuke?  Even the best pro baseball pitcher's Arm isn't good enough for those kinds of Arms.  And you can't carry the Alpha Omega in your back pocket.  So, let move on to a new topic.

<.html

.html
Well, there is such a thing as bad-seed.  And anyone, if ridiculed enough, as teenagers often do, has the potential of becoming an extroverted suicide.  But I do think parents should be more responsible in child rearing.  Especially with all the teenage Yahoos I see on the road these days.  If you want to make good use of that book by Dr. Spock, spank you kids with it.  It may sound cruel, but then so does life in prison, which is where bad kids end up when the grow up.

I think that
the families of the victims should be able to sue the parents of
those Columbine killers--bankrupt them. If other parents of
"troubled teens" knew that their entire monetary holdings
could/would be confiscated if their kids were to commit similar
murders, perhaps they would do a better job of
parenting--including keeping guns locked up and out of the
reach of their kids, as well as monitoring their kids' activities
(such as Bomb-making, for Christ's sake!).

<.html

--- In pota@y..., "Eileen Rankin" <emr1623@m...> wrote:

> interesting thing about the Libertarian Party... I'll use your

eagle comparison. One wing is Right (repub), one wing Left
(dem)... true it needs both to fly...so the Libertarian climbs on in
the middle. Put enough of you there, taking away from either
wing's strength, and the damn bird's gonna drop like a stone
unfortunately.

> ---eileen

*** Or... think of each wing (Right = conservative; Left = liberal) as
having an anthropomorphic "hand" (like a cartoon
character--such as Foghorn Leghorn or Daffy Duck), carrying the
"baggage" that we in the Middle think of as the "FAR-Right
agenda" and the "FAR-Left agenda". If it weren't for that
"baggage" the Eagle would be able to use its two wings to fly
higher and faster.
Oh, and there ain't enough Libertarians out there to weigh down
the Eagle, Eileen. If you were to multiply the number of
Libertarians out there by 100, you still couldn't win the
Presidency. That's just an unfortunate truth guys like me have to
accept, living in the Real world (as opposed to satirical parallel
universes like the POTA universe!).

Patrick

--- In pota@y..., "emr1623" <emr1623@m...> wrote:

> ironic humor maybe, but maybe also, as burton's more closely

followed

> Boulle's book...then maybe just a bit more of the idea that apes
> aren't inventive, they just "ape" our stuff... they just "Aped
> Lincoln" for this one. And also Semos is actually Moses.
> ---eileen
>

*** I don't think that Burton's film "more closely followed Boulle's
book", as you say. The only thing it had in common with the
original novel is that its protagonist (Leo) goes back to Earth only
to find that it has also become a "planet of apes". But Leo never
intended to go to another planet in the beginning (as Ulysse
Merou and Taylor did), and the "planet" in Burton's film was never
a "human-run" world in its antiquity (as were Soror and Earth in
Boulle's book and the 1968 film).
I think Burton's film is not so much an "adaptation" of Boulle's
novel as a twisted sort of transmogrification of the entire 5-film
saga that had been previously done. Others have pointed out the
parallels to ESCAPE and CONQUEST implied by the
Thade-to-Earth ending.

Just my 2¢...

Patrick

I put "Battle" in an alternate timeline initiated by "Escape", so one can
assume the physiology of those apes are different than our apes. I put
"Planet" and "Beneath" in our timeline (for gits and shiggles) and assume
our apes were genetically altered in the future.
- - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 7:44 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: New POTA sequel... and thoughts on a
post-BATTLE...


> --- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> > How else are we to explain how Lisa--who, undoubtedly, had
> been shipped over
> > from "A-for-Africa, ex French Cameroons" (or some such)--is
> able to
> > actually SPEAK the word "No!"
> >
> > That's Nothing! I saw a young chimpette, at the Hogle Zoo in
> Salt Lake, say
> > 'Hello'. Now she had to hold her nose in order to do it, but it
> was clear
> > and distinct! So I wouldn't think that saying the single syllable
> 'No' would
> > be much of a problem.
>
> *** In BATTLE, Lisa not only is able to speak monosyllables like
> "No", but also complete fluent English sentences. That involves
> syntax, and the vocal apparatus that "primitive" chimps just plain
> don't have. Lisa--like all the "intelligent" apes in BATTLE--is an
> "evolved" ape, of the same species as Cornelius, Zira, and Milo
> (since she's able to breed with the son of C & Z). Where did
> these three species of intelligent chimpanzees, orangutans and
> gorillas come from? How did they arrive on the scene in the late
> 20th Century? That is a question that was never answered in the
> POTA film series. It couldn't have been the brief amount of
> selective breeding in the "Breeding Annex" places (like the one in
> CONQUEST), since selective breeding of the sort would require
> at the very least HUNDREDS of generations to produce a
> significantly different outcome. Maybe the use of transgenics
> could do it in a few generations... MAYBE. But this would require
> the laboratory infusion of genetic material from another species
> (human? "alien"? hmmm...) into the spermatozoan or ovum prior
> to transplanting of the now-altered "fertilized" egg into a
> host-mother's uterus.
> My mega-POTA-novel will, of course, go into a fair amount of
> detail to "explain" in a scientifically plausible way how
> Mandemus, Virgil, Aldo, Lisa (etc.) and their respective "evolved"
> species were able to come into existence.
>
> Patrick Michael Tilton
> EARTH-TIME 6-08-2002
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 7:50 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Heston's politics & POTA [somewhat OT]

Well, there is such a thing as bad-seed.  And anyone, if ridiculed enough, as teenagers often do, has the potential of becoming an extroverted suicide.  But I do think parents should be more responsible in child rearing.  Especially with all the teenage Yahoos I see on the road these days.  If you want to make good use of that book by Dr. Spock, spank you kids with it.  It may sound cruel, but then so does life in prison, which is where bad kids end up when the grow up.

I think that
the families of the victims should be able to sue the parents of
those Columbine killers--bankrupt them. If other parents of
"troubled teens" knew that their entire monetary holdings
could/would be confiscated if their kids were to commit similar
murders, perhaps they would do a better job of
parenting--including keeping guns locked up and out of the
reach of their kids, as well as monitoring their kids' activities
(such as Bomb-making, for Christ's sake!).

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

--- In pota@y..., "Melkor" <melkor@m...> wrote:

>
> >Heston's NRA stance on guns isn't exactly against the

"philosophy" of

> >the POTA series (at least, the 1st film): as Taylor, he endures

all

> >sorts of degrading experiences... but when he acquires a gun

of his

> >own, after Zira & Lucius smuggle him out to Cornelius' wagon

of

>
> Anyone in Taylor's position would want a gun at that point. I

really don't see

> any political symbolism intended there. It was necessary for

Taylor to have a

> gun for the story plot and he was a colonel in the military.

Although present

> day audiences may think of Heston's NRA stance there Heston

didn't write the

> script he only played the role.
>
> Aside from the Alpha-Omega bomb in BENEATH, to find the

POTA movie that makes

> statements about weapons look in BATTLE.
>
> Mandemus: There, every weapon is back in its proper place [in

the armory]...

> now that the danger is over I want to see it [the armory]

destroyed.

> Virgil: The greatest danger of all is that the danger never ends.
> Caesar: And so, Mandemus, we must be patient and wait.
> Lawgiver: We still wait...
>
> This is interesting because it's the only time in the POTA

movies where the

> more liberal viewpoint (unilarteral disamrament) loses to the

less liberal

> viewpoint. All four characters are liberals, but Mandemus is an

extreme

> liberal who is advocating unilateral disarmament. Virgil and

Caesar agree that

> they need to keep their weapons for self defense, but consider

the weapons

> dangerous and believe they need to be kept under control.

Weapons are a

> necessary evil but their existence, along with the military

industrial complex

> and its effect on society which was big concern in 1972 are

"the greatest

> danger of all".

*** You say, and I quote:

"Anyone in Taylor's position would want a gun at that point. I
really don't see any political symbolism intended there. It was
necessary for Taylor to have a gun for the story plot and he was a
colonel in the military."

Yet Heston could have declined to play the part, had he had any
qualms about the thematic content of the film. Although Heston
is not the "same" person as Taylor (i.e. the misanthropic voyager
who seeks to "escape" from his own species), he undoubtedly
shares Taylor's perspective on Guns: they level the playing field.
Taylor cannot be arbitrarily harassed by the gun-wielding apes,
now that he himself has acquired a rifle, and can "give as good
as he gets". Zaius and the gorillas know this, which is why the
film doesn't end when Zaius gallops up and announces: "You're
all under arrest!" No... Taylor has a gun at this point--and he
shows that he's not afraid to use it, in defense of himself and of
his friends.
Compare the mistreatment of Taylor in PLANET to the
mistreatment of all humans in BATTLE: granted, in BATTLE, the
guns are all kept locked up in Mandemus' Armory. But the
gorillas all seem to have truncheons and short swords, and their
physical size and strength has given them an advantage that the
average human cannot counter. Could MacDonald, Teacher, and
the other humans hope to win in a fight against the gunless
army of gorillas? Not a chance. And when the gorillas raid the
Armory and acquire the guns, the chances of avoiding the
pogrom that Aldo intends for them become reduced to nothing
(remember when Aldo orders his gorilla soldiers to kill all the
unarmed humans imprisoned in the corral?).
There are two extremes: the LEFT would have NO guns at all
(which, in BATTLE, leaves humans at a distinct disadvantage),
whilst the RIGHT would have guns for EVERYBODY (which
would be quite dangerous in a climate of racial hatred, where
gorillas want all humans killed... and humans who remember
their once-exalted status might wish to re-subjugate their former
"lessers"). A middle ground might be to have equal
representation in government (in BATTLE, humans weren't
allowed in the Council, remember), as well as equal
representation in the POLICE (but, in BATTLE, only the gorillas, it
seems, are in the "police force"). Think of the paucity of black
police officers in "black" areas of the major cities (like Los
Angeles and Baltimore); it's difficult for many blacks to trust the
cops when most of the cops they encounter in their own
neighbourhoods are non-black.
These problems, sadly, are still with us in the "real" world. The
"funhouse mirror" world of POTA gives us an interesting view of
ourselves and of our potential futures...

Patrick

All the Yahoos aren't just teenagers!!!

--- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:
>
> Well, there is such a thing as bad-seed. And anyone, if ridiculed
enough, as
> teenagers often do, has the potential of becoming an extroverted
suicide.
> But I do think parents should be more responsible in child
rearing.
> Especially with all the teenage Yahoos I see on the road these
days. If you
> want to make good use of that book by Dr. Spock, spank you kids
with it. It
> may sound cruel, but then so does life in prison, which is where
bad kids end
> up when the grow up.
>
>
> > I think that
> > the families of the victims should be able to sue the parents of
> > those Columbine killers--bankrupt them. If other parents of
> > "troubled teens" knew that their entire monetary holdings
> > could/would be confiscated if their kids were to commit similar
> > murders, perhaps they would do a better job of
> > parenting--including keeping guns locked up and out of the
> > reach of their kids, as well as monitoring their kids'
activities
> > (such as Bomb-making, for Christ's sake!).
> >

--- In pota@y..., "Melkor" <melkor@m...> wrote:

> >*** Caesar's revolt (i.e. the revolt of "apes on the five

continents" against human oppression) may very well have been
the "cause" of the war, as far as Kolp is concerned; but to
suggest that Caesar, by seizing power in one single city, was the
catalyst for a NUCLEAR war that wipes out human civilization, is
going a bit too far. The Ape Revolt against enslavement must
have taken some time to spread--not just days or weeks.

>
> We simply don't know whether there were any other ape revolts

because it is never mentioned in BATTLE. You can assume that
but it wouldn't be "canon". [*** I agree. It IS assumption--I think a
reasonable one. The nuclear conflict that eventually (when???)
follows has global consequences, however, which suggests that
the Ape Revolt is not merely confined to one city (Breck's).]

> All Caesar had done was defeat a city police force. There

might have been other ape revolts, but without a nuclear war
there is no way Caesar's few hundred apes who can't yet talk
could hold out very long against the millions of federal troops in
the US military. The fact that the American government had not
yet revealed the existence of the Alpha-Omega bomb even
though its sole purpose was to be the ultimate deterent to
nuclear war suggest that the war came from a sneak attack, not
an escalation of tensions. Kolp and Mendez knew what the
Alpha-Omega bomb was, but Alma didn't have a clue.

[*** Evidently, the Alpha Omega bomb was not "programmed" to
carry out its intended function--of detonating upon the 1st Strike
of an enemy nation against the USA, as a deterrent--as is the
computer in the film "WARGAMES", or the system the Russians
have in Kubrick's "DR. STRANGELOVE", which is automatically
set-in-place, and reacts to the Slim Pickens "Yee-haw!"
bronco-ride of the Bomb from the bomber. Evidently, the Alpha
Omega bomb is BUILT but NOT USED by those who were in
control of it when the Nukes started flying. Perhaps the Bomb's
"controller" disobeyed direct orders by NOT detonating it,
knowing that despite the eradication of modern civilization there
would still be the possibility of SOME future civilization arising if
the planet is still around--which would NOT be the case if the
Bomb IS detonated. One question we should all wonder about:
just how is it that the Bomb ended up with the Kolp/Mendez
group? Breck's city wasn't a US military base, was it? Wouldn't it
be more likely that the Bomb would have been kept in a missile
silo, or perhaps shipped from silo-to-silo through underground
tunnels, from base-to-base, so that the "Enemy" never knows
just where it is at any one time? How did Kolp and/or Mendez
acquire it?]

>
>
>The apes who were transported overseas to America, it seems,

are NOT "primitive" apes who can't speak at all, but seem to be
TALKING apes who just don't know English yet... and are prudent
enough to shun the

>
>That assumption is clearly not intended. The genetically

altered apes only exist in POTA 2001. The premise of the
movies is the same premise as the books: That apes had the
capacity for intelligence all along but they required extensive
contacts with human civilization to realize that intelligence. That
may not be true in reality but it is true in the POTA movie and
book universe and is a central premise of the book.

[*** Remember when Zira tells the "ad hoc Tribunal" about how
"the defect lies NOT IN ANATOMY (i.e. of humans), but IN THE
BRAIN"? She's talking about the physiological ability of the
humans (other than Taylor) to speak... yet their lack of speech is
due to a "defect" in their brain, and not to the lack of the "vocal
apparatus"--the voice box, larynx, etc. In ESCAPE, Zira refers to
the humans' "atrophied speech centers"; she's referring to the
Brain's "speech centers", where she previously said the "defect"
was in regards to speech. In CONQUEST and BATTLE, the Apes
become PHYSICALLY, PHYSIOLOGICALLY capable of speaking
fluent English--an impossibility with the "primitive" apes currently
in existence: they just don't have the anatomical pre-requisites...
but in CONQUEST, the enslaved Apes SOMEHOW actually DO
possess the physical anatomy which allows for such
vocalizations. Clearly, SOMETHING had to have happened to a
large enough number of Apes living in Africa and Southern Asia
to create what amounts to another set of species (i.e. "evolved"
versions of primitive chimps, gorillas & orangutans), which end
up being shipped over to America (and Europe? South America?
Australia? who knows?) and put through Ape Management
facilities, etc. Even if actual apes DID have the intelligence and
intellectual capacity to be our equals, they do NOT have the
physiological anatomy to vocalize that intelligence--as the
Chairman of the Presidential Commission tells Lewis Dixon, in
regards to a chimp (Cornelius) whom he falsely assumes is no
different anatomically from any other primitive chimpanzee from
Africa. Cornelius, however, IS different...]

>
>
>I agree that there's all sorts of stories that take place between

CONQUEST and BATTLE, but I agree with Mandemus that
there's some 27 years of time between those two stories.

>
> So do I.
>
>
>I don't think that the Russians or the Chinese (or whoever)

would automatically lob ICBMs over into America just because of
a bunch of ape slaves had trashed

>
> I wouldn't think that would be likely either, but we don't know

what else was happening at the time and when you add up all
the various clues it points toward some kind of sneak attack
shortly after CONQUEST. (1) The survival of Caesar's ape revolt
from CONQUEST. (2) The fact that Alma and others didn't know
about the Alpha/Omega bomb. (3) Kolp blaming Ceasar for
weakening them.

[*** If the Nuke War happened "shortly after CONQUEST", you
would have to account for Mendez' line to Kolp about the latter's
impending War against Caesar's village as ending "twelve years
of peace". Something happened 12 years before the events of
BATTLE which could fairly be termed "non-peaceful"--probably
some sort of conflict, battle, war, what have you. There's no
evidence that Caesar was aware--prior to BATTLE--that there
were any living survivors in the City, so chances are that the
conflict Mendez is referring to does NOT involve Caesar's group.
So... what's Mendez referring to? In my scenario, BATTLE takes
place 12 years after the Nuke War (hence, this line from
Mendez), and 27 years after CONQUEST (Mandemus' line),
which would put the Nuke War in 2006 A.D., some 15 years after
CONQUEST. I admit that a "Nuke War in 2006" is not canon, but
it is consistent with those particular chronological details. But,
please, feel free to concoct a different timeline/scenario which
works better for you...]

Patrick Michael Tilton
EARTH-TIME 6-08-2002

Parents who spank their kids wind up in prison, too, thanks to our way over
the top domestic violence laws. Etc.

True, I have a feeling you could do everything right, not mollycoddle them or
discipline them physically to the point of abuse. Give them everything they
need, but not spoil them rotten either. Give them a good moral center
without cramming religion down their throats and you'd still get some bad
eggs. Like say Zaius, Ursus, or Aldo . . . or Hasslein, Breck or Kolb. The
funny thing is, in all those cases rather than being criminals they were
people in positions of power, who actually believed they were doing the right
thing! Funny isn't it. It's the heroes and heroines of POTA that are
considered the outlaws. Hmmm..... Yet again. Something to think about.

.html  

All the Yahoos aren't just teenagers!!!

Didn't say they were.

<.html

Is anyone here old enough to remember Marvel Comic's Planet Of The Apes
Magazine? It was a black & white format mag which featured illustrated
adaptations of the APES films, plus their original APES story line. The mag
also featured regular articles about the films and the then new TV sereis.
One of these articles was a Marvel-written, APES timeline. They layed out
all film events in a chronological order.
The one point that still stands out for me is their explanation of how
primitive apes became fully intelligent and capable of speech as quickly as
did, and how the remaining human population degraded into gibbering animals
as quickly as they did. All in a (evolutionarily speaking) mere 2000 years.
According to Marvel, it was the virus from space that eradicated earth's
canine and feline populations. They stipulated that the virus had an
unrealized effect on primates as well. Triggering a degrading effect on the
human mind, and a simultaneous, "upgrading" of simian intelligence. Take
that as you please, but personally, it works for me. ;)
By the ay, I have built my own ape rifle and machine gun prop replicas. If
anyone would like to see them, email me for pics. Also, head over to
www.apemania.com and look under their, "Jr. G-Man" page. Click on "Jeff &
Susan Stringer", to see our Ape costumes. I would also be interested in see
anyone else's Ape costumes or props. Now go play...! :)
Gristle P.

----- Original Message -----
From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 10:44 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: New POTA sequel... and thoughts on a
post-BATTLE...


> --- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> > How else are we to explain how Lisa--who, undoubtedly, had
> been shipped over
> > from "A-for-Africa, ex French Cameroons" (or some such)--is
> able to
> > actually SPEAK the word "No!"
> >
> > That's Nothing! I saw a young chimpette, at the Hogle Zoo in
> Salt Lake, say
> > 'Hello'. Now she had to hold her nose in order to do it, but it
> was clear
> > and distinct! So I wouldn't think that saying the single syllable
> 'No' would
> > be much of a problem.
>
> *** In BATTLE, Lisa not only is able to speak monosyllables like
> "No", but also complete fluent English sentences. That involves
> syntax, and the vocal apparatus that "primitive" chimps just plain
> don't have. Lisa--like all the "intelligent" apes in BATTLE--is an
> "evolved" ape, of the same species as Cornelius, Zira, and Milo
> (since she's able to breed with the son of C & Z). Where did
> these three species of intelligent chimpanzees, orangutans and
> gorillas come from? How did they arrive on the scene in the late
> 20th Century? That is a question that was never answered in the
> POTA film series. It couldn't have been the brief amount of
> selective breeding in the "Breeding Annex" places (like the one in
> CONQUEST), since selective breeding of the sort would require
> at the very least HUNDREDS of generations to produce a
> significantly different outcome. Maybe the use of transgenics
> could do it in a few generations... MAYBE. But this would require
> the laboratory infusion of genetic material from another species
> (human? "alien"? hmmm...) into the spermatozoan or ovum prior
> to transplanting of the now-altered "fertilized" egg into a
> host-mother's uterus.
> My mega-POTA-novel will, of course, go into a fair amount of
> detail to "explain" in a scientifically plausible way how
> Mandemus, Virgil, Aldo, Lisa (etc.) and their respective "evolved"
> species were able to come into existence.
>
> Patrick Michael Tilton
> EARTH-TIME 6-08-2002
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.htmlIn a message dated 6/8/2002 10:10:16 AM Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

 I put "Battle" in an alternate timeline initiated by "Escape", so one can
assume the physiology of those apes are different than our apes. I put
"Planet" and "Beneath" in our timeline (for gits and shiggles) and assume
our apes were genetically altered in the future.
    - - - Jeff

I agree with you here. Both "Conquest" and "Battle" are part of the second timeline initiated by the Ape-o-nauts arrival in "Escape." <.html

--- In pota@y..., "Jeff & Susan Stringer" <stringe@b...> wrote:

> Is anyone here old enough to remember Marvel Comic's

Planet Of The Apes

> Magazine? It was a black & white format mag which featured

illustrated

> adaptations of the APES films, plus their original APES story

line. The mag

> also featured regular articles about the films and the then new

TV sereis.

> One of these articles was a Marvel-written, APES timeline.

They layed out

> all film events in a chronological order.
> The one point that still stands out for me is their explanation of

how

> primitive apes became fully intelligent and capable of speech

as quickly as

> did, and how the remaining human population degraded into

gibbering animals

> as quickly as they did. All in a (evolutionarily speaking) mere

2000 years.

> According to Marvel, it was the virus from space that

eradicated earth's

> canine and feline populations. They stipulated that the virus

had an

> unrealized effect on primates as well. Triggering a degrading

effect on the

> human mind, and a simultaneous, "upgrading" of simian

intelligence. Take

> that as you please, but personally, it works for me. ;)
> By the ay, I have built my own ape rifle and machine gun prop

replicas. If

> anyone would like to see them, email me for pics. Also, head

over to

> www.apemania.com and look under their, "Jr. G-Man" page.

Click on "Jeff &

> Susan Stringer", to see our Ape costumes. I would also be

interested in see

> anyone else's Ape costumes or props. Now go play...! :)
> Gristle P.

*** The Marvel magazine was generally terrific. Their chronology
left a little to be desired, though. Especially in regards to their
connecting the Plague with the emergence of simian intelligence
(and, supposedly, the apes' physiological ability to vocalize the
English language).
The main problem is that the Plague happens in 1983 ("eight
years ago" according to Armando, in 1991), and Caesar was
born in 1973... yet Mandemus--an orangutan who is portrayed in
BATTLE as being older than Caesar--obviously had the
intelligence and physical endowments to speak English. So he
cannot have gotten them from the Plague. The "upgrading" of
simian intelligence had to have a different cause...

Patrick

That is a valid interpetation. But there are those, including Paul
Dehn, that see it as a time circle.

--- In pota@y..., mlccougar@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 6/8/2002 10:10:16 AM Central Standard Time,
> veetus@e... writes:
>
>
> > I put "Battle" in an alternate timeline initiated by "Escape",
so one can
> > assume the physiology of those apes are different than our apes.
I put
> > "Planet" and "Beneath" in our timeline (for gits and shiggles)
and assume
> > our apes were genetically altered in the future.
> > - - - Jeff
> >
>
> I agree with you here. Both "Conquest" and "Battle" are part of
the second
> timeline initiated by the Ape-o-nauts arrival in "Escape."

Nope, sorry sir. None of us are old enough to remember that. In fact, the
only reason we're talking POTA and not "Star Wars" is because it's been a
slow day. Etc. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff & Susan Stringer" <stringe@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 9:39 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Origin Of The Intelligent Apes, Via Marvel
Comics


> Is anyone here old enough to remember Marvel Comic's Planet Of The
Apes
> Magazine? It was a black & white format mag which featured illustrated
> adaptations of the APES films, plus their original APES story line. The
mag
> also featured regular articles about the films and the then new TV sereis.
> One of these articles was a Marvel-written, APES timeline. They layed
out
> all film events in a chronological order.
> The one point that still stands out for me is their explanation of how
> primitive apes became fully intelligent and capable of speech as quickly
as
> did, and how the remaining human population degraded into gibbering
animals
> as quickly as they did. All in a (evolutionarily speaking) mere 2000
years.
> According to Marvel, it was the virus from space that eradicated earth's
> canine and feline populations. They stipulated that the virus had an
> unrealized effect on primates as well. Triggering a degrading effect on
the
> human mind, and a simultaneous, "upgrading" of simian intelligence. Take
> that as you please, but personally, it works for me. ;)
> By the ay, I have built my own ape rifle and machine gun prop replicas.
If
> anyone would like to see them, email me for pics. Also, head over to
> www.apemania.com and look under their, "Jr. G-Man" page. Click on "Jeff &
> Susan Stringer", to see our Ape costumes. I would also be interested in
see
> anyone else's Ape costumes or props. Now go play...! :)
> Gristle P.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 10:44 AM
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: New POTA sequel... and thoughts on a
> post-BATTLE...
>
>
> > --- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> > > How else are we to explain how Lisa--who, undoubtedly, had
> > been shipped over
> > > from "A-for-Africa, ex French Cameroons" (or some such)--is
> > able to
> > > actually SPEAK the word "No!"
> > >
> > > That's Nothing! I saw a young chimpette, at the Hogle Zoo in
> > Salt Lake, say
> > > 'Hello'. Now she had to hold her nose in order to do it, but it
> > was clear
> > > and distinct! So I wouldn't think that saying the single syllable
> > 'No' would
> > > be much of a problem.
> >
> > *** In BATTLE, Lisa not only is able to speak monosyllables like
> > "No", but also complete fluent English sentences. That involves
> > syntax, and the vocal apparatus that "primitive" chimps just plain
> > don't have. Lisa--like all the "intelligent" apes in BATTLE--is an
> > "evolved" ape, of the same species as Cornelius, Zira, and Milo
> > (since she's able to breed with the son of C & Z). Where did
> > these three species of intelligent chimpanzees, orangutans and
> > gorillas come from? How did they arrive on the scene in the late
> > 20th Century? That is a question that was never answered in the
> > POTA film series. It couldn't have been the brief amount of
> > selective breeding in the "Breeding Annex" places (like the one in
> > CONQUEST), since selective breeding of the sort would require
> > at the very least HUNDREDS of generations to produce a
> > significantly different outcome. Maybe the use of transgenics
> > could do it in a few generations... MAYBE. But this would require
> > the laboratory infusion of genetic material from another species
> > (human? "alien"? hmmm...) into the spermatozoan or ovum prior
> > to transplanting of the now-altered "fertilized" egg into a
> > host-mother's uterus.
> > My mega-POTA-novel will, of course, go into a fair amount of
> > detail to "explain" in a scientifically plausible way how
> > Mandemus, Virgil, Aldo, Lisa (etc.) and their respective "evolved"
> > species were able to come into existence.
> >
> > Patrick Michael Tilton
> > EARTH-TIME 6-08-2002
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Well, what does Paul Dehn know? He's merely the messenger.
- - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 10:57 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Thoughts on a post-BATTLE...


> That is a valid interpetation. But there are those, including Paul
> Dehn, that see it as a time circle.
>
> --- In pota@y..., mlccougar@a... wrote:
> > In a message dated 6/8/2002 10:10:16 AM Central Standard Time,
> > veetus@e... writes:
> >
> >
> > > I put "Battle" in an alternate timeline initiated by "Escape",
> so one can
> > > assume the physiology of those apes are different than our apes.
> I put
> > > "Planet" and "Beneath" in our timeline (for gits and shiggles)
> and assume
> > > our apes were genetically altered in the future.
> > > - - - Jeff
> > >
> >
> > I agree with you here. Both "Conquest" and "Battle" are part of
> the second
> > timeline initiated by the Ape-o-nauts arrival in "Escape."
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Add Lost In Space (although not to the same extent).

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alan Maxwell [alan@...]
> Sent: Saturday, 8 June 2002 6:48
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Back to 'Earth' (OT)
>
>
> Jeff <veetus@...> wrote:
> >Ok, the Paramount movie is "The Warriors". "Journey to the Center of
> the >Earth" is still the Zanucks and Fox (actually Fox 2000).
>
> Trivia question: what links the two films above, "Planet of the Apes",
> and "The Time Machine"?
>
> Answer: THEY ARE ALL GREAT FILMS TO START WITH, RENDERING REMAKES AND
> RE-IMAGINATIONS COMPLETELY POINTLESS!!! HOLLYWOOD, PLEASE STOP!!!
>
> Alan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Yes, I'm not saying let's avoid other topics as they arise, just that maybe
it will help structure our thoughts.

Say for example we call this month "Planet" month and start at the very
beginning.

But tomorrow someone comes up with a point about the Cartoon Series.

Well, so be it and let's discuss the cartoon series, but when that
conversation dries up or ends with hostilities or personal
religious/political ideals, we can say "Right, we were up to scene 3 weren't
we? Do you realise there was another scene cut from there? This scene
differs from Serling's first script in the following ways:......."

Just a thought.

Michael.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alan Maxwell [alan@...]
> Sent: Saturday, 8 June 2002 6:50
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Politics & POTA [somewhat OT]
>
>
> "Eileen Rankin" <emr1623@...> wrote:
> >fair enough about the off topic discussions, but I don't think we
> need to >have structured discussions on monthly topics. when you get
> together with >friends for the weekend or for dinner, do you say
> "tonight we will discuss >only Battle..." or basketball, for that
> matter.
>
> True, but the advantage is that although you pick one topic to start
> with, it will invariably bring up others, and lead to whole new
> discussions anyway. It's really just a starting point.
>
> Alan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

So is that version X-Rated or just R-Rated?

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: veetus@... [veetus@...]
> Sent: Saturday, 8 June 2002 12:30
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] DVDs Update
>
>
> You're welcome, Alex. Glad you like them. Alex was kind enough
> to send me
> the uncut version of "Playmate of the Apes". But it's not
> necessary to call
> me "Sir". Just as Ari was demoted from princess, consider me a Senator's
> daughter. Etc. - - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Calima 5021" <calima5021com@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, June 07, 2002 7:32 AM
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] DVDs Update
>
>
> >
> > The Krueger Collection. :o)
> >
> > Okay, gang. Here's an Update.
> > Sir Jeff Krueger, just sent me a great collection of his home videos on
> > Planet of the Apes Conventions and Parties. This is the greatest stuff
> I've
> > ever seen! About 3 hours worth of home videos along with some great
> > televised stuff. Finally I'm now able to make a real Classic
> Planet of the
> > Apes DVDs for the fans, thanks to, Sir Jeff Krueger.
> >
> > GOD DAMN, JEFF! Your the best!
> > I am not worthy! :o)
> >
> > As soon as I place this on DVD, I'll be offering this to the group, so
> stay
> > tuned.
> >
> > The Battle UNcut, won't be shipped out until this coming
> monday. Sorry for
> > the delay, but burning a DVD takes up to an hour each and I fell a bit
> > behind. Burning 4.7 gigs takes its time, but non the less there all now
> > complete and I'll have the time this weekend to post and ship ready for
> > monday.
> >
> > Holy Moly, Jeff.
> > That was really something, thanks again. Hope you enjoy my DVDs.
> >
> > Jeff's, DVD Collection will be called, THE KRUEGER COLLECTION.
> > COMING SOON...:o)
> >
> > Best.
> > Al
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _____

OK, here's a good place to start - a philosophical discussion.

Where did these talking apes who walk in an upright manner get these gifts
from?

I have always thought that the original movie hinted on a cross between a
new type of evolution. Humans destroyed their civilisation (not apes as per
Conquest) and the apes just went about evolving until they found themselves
the superior species. And the side effects of nuclear waste (well, I think
we can all assume that a nuclear holocaust is what caused Ms Liberty to end
up where she was.

So how does this fit in with the cave they discovered towards the end of
Planet?

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: veetus@... [veetus@...]
> Sent: Sunday, 9 June 2002 1:12
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: New POTA sequel... and thoughts on
> a post-BATTLE...
>
>
> I put "Battle" in an alternate timeline initiated by "Escape",
> so one can
> assume the physiology of those apes are different than our apes. I put
> "Planet" and "Beneath" in our timeline (for gits and shiggles) and assume
> our apes were genetically altered in the future.
> - - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 7:44 AM
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: New POTA sequel... and thoughts on a
> post-BATTLE...
>
>
> > --- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> > > How else are we to explain how Lisa--who, undoubtedly, had
> > been shipped over
> > > from "A-for-Africa, ex French Cameroons" (or some such)--is
> > able to
> > > actually SPEAK the word "No!"
> > >
> > > That's Nothing! I saw a young chimpette, at the Hogle Zoo in
> > Salt Lake, say
> > > 'Hello'. Now she had to hold her nose in order to do it, but it
> > was clear
> > > and distinct! So I wouldn't think that saying the single syllable
> > 'No' would
> > > be much of a problem.
> >
> > *** In BATTLE, Lisa not only is able to speak monosyllables like
> > "No", but also complete fluent English sentences. That involves
> > syntax, and the vocal apparatus that "primitive" chimps just plain
> > don't have. Lisa--like all the "intelligent" apes in BATTLE--is an
> > "evolved" ape, of the same species as Cornelius, Zira, and Milo
> > (since she's able to breed with the son of C & Z). Where did
> > these three species of intelligent chimpanzees, orangutans and
> > gorillas come from? How did they arrive on the scene in the late
> > 20th Century? That is a question that was never answered in the
> > POTA film series. It couldn't have been the brief amount of
> > selective breeding in the "Breeding Annex" places (like the one in
> > CONQUEST), since selective breeding of the sort would require
> > at the very least HUNDREDS of generations to produce a
> > significantly different outcome. Maybe the use of transgenics
> > could do it in a few generations... MAYBE. But this would require
> > the laboratory infusion of genetic material from another species
> > (human? "alien"? hmmm...) into the spermatozoan or ovum prior
> > to transplanting of the now-altered "fertilized" egg into a
> > host-mother's uterus.
> > My mega-POTA-novel will, of course, go into a fair amount of
> > detail to "explain" in a scientifically plausible way how
> > Mandemus, Virgil, Aldo, Lisa (etc.) and their respective "evolved"
> > species were able to come into existence.
> >
> > Patrick Michael Tilton
> > EARTH-TIME 6-08-2002
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

>
>

Please don't even think about commenting on what you should and shouldn't do
with kids unless you are a parent and have had some experience in the
matter.

Being a parent includes using that book as a theological foundation AND a
punishment device. It includes all ideas, emotions and actions at all times
and these are dependant upon your own personal situation and mood and how
that flows with your partner's at any given time.

And how this effects the child will depend upon that child's personality.

It is the single most complicated task for a human being and while I could
never condone certain behaviours, I can certainly understand now how lesser
persons can lose it with kids at times.

Michael (who has spent the entire night listening to twins crying
simultaneously and independently)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: LordTZer0@... [LordTZer0@...]
> Sent: Sunday, 9 June 2002 2:35
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Heston's politics & POTA [somewhat OT]
>
>
> Parents who spank their kids wind up in prison, too, thanks to
> our way over
> the top domestic violence laws. Etc.
>
> True, I have a feeling you could do everything right, not
> mollycoddle them or
> discipline them physically to the point of abuse. Give them
> everything they
> need, but not spoil them rotten either. Give them a good moral center
> without cramming religion down their throats and you'd still get some bad
> eggs. Like say Zaius, Ursus, or Aldo . . . or Hasslein, Breck or
> Kolb. The
> funny thing is, in all those cases rather than being criminals they were
> people in positions of power, who actually believed they were
> doing the right
> thing! Funny isn't it. It's the heroes and heroines of POTA that are
> considered the outlaws. Hmmm..... Yet again. Something to think about.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: mlccougar@... [mlccougar@...]
Sent: Sunday, 9 June 2002 3:13
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Thoughts on a post-BATTLE...

In a message dated 6/8/2002 10:10:16 AM Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

 I put "Battle" in an alternate timeline initiated by "Escape", so one can
assume the physiology of those apes are different than our apes. I put
"Planet" and "Beneath" in our timeline (for gits and shiggles) and assume
our apes were genetically altered in the future.
    - - - Jeff

I agree with you here. Both "Conquest" and "Battle" are part of the second timeline initiated by the Ape-o-nauts arrival in "Escape."
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

<.html

Like I said, it was never definitively decided, just implied.

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: james611102 [JamesA1102@...]
> Sent: Sunday, 9 June 2002 3:57
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Thoughts on a post-BATTLE...
>
>
> That is a valid interpetation. But there are those, including Paul
> Dehn, that see it as a time circle.
>
> --- In pota@y..., mlccougar@a... wrote:
> > In a message dated 6/8/2002 10:10:16 AM Central Standard Time,
> > veetus@e... writes:
> >
> >
> > > I put "Battle" in an alternate timeline initiated by "Escape",
> so one can
> > > assume the physiology of those apes are different than our apes.
> I put
> > > "Planet" and "Beneath" in our timeline (for gits and shiggles)
> and assume
> > > our apes were genetically altered in the future.
> > > - - - Jeff
> > >
> >
> > I agree with you here. Both "Conquest" and "Battle" are part of
> the second
> > timeline initiated by the Ape-o-nauts arrival in "Escape."
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

The first exposure I had to POTA was Marvel #8 and the damned thing cost $1
which was a lot at the time (but it was an import).

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: veetus@... [veetus@...]
> Sent: Sunday, 9 June 2002 7:42
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Origin Of The Intelligent Apes, Via
> Marvel Comics
>
>
> Nope, sorry sir. None of us are old enough to remember that. In
> fact, the
> only reason we're talking POTA and not "Star Wars" is because it's been a
> slow day. Etc. - - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff & Susan Stringer" <stringe@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 9:39 AM
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Origin Of The Intelligent Apes, Via Marvel
> Comics
>
>
> > Is anyone here old enough to remember Marvel Comic's Planet Of The
> Apes
> > Magazine? It was a black & white format mag which featured illustrated
> > adaptations of the APES films, plus their original APES story line. The
> mag
> > also featured regular articles about the films and the then new
> TV sereis.
> > One of these articles was a Marvel-written, APES timeline. They layed
> out
> > all film events in a chronological order.
> > The one point that still stands out for me is their explanation of how
> > primitive apes became fully intelligent and capable of speech as quickly
> as
> > did, and how the remaining human population degraded into gibbering
> animals
> > as quickly as they did. All in a (evolutionarily speaking) mere 2000
> years.
> > According to Marvel, it was the virus from space that
> eradicated earth's
> > canine and feline populations. They stipulated that the virus had an
> > unrealized effect on primates as well. Triggering a degrading effect on
> the
> > human mind, and a simultaneous, "upgrading" of simian intelligence. Take
> > that as you please, but personally, it works for me. ;)
> > By the ay, I have built my own ape rifle and machine gun prop
> replicas.
> If
> > anyone would like to see them, email me for pics. Also, head over to
> > www.apemania.com and look under their, "Jr. G-Man" page. Click
> on "Jeff &
> > Susan Stringer", to see our Ape costumes. I would also be interested in
> see
> > anyone else's Ape costumes or props. Now go play...! :)
> > Gristle P.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
> > To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 10:44 AM
> > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: New POTA sequel... and thoughts on a
> > post-BATTLE...
> >
> >
> > > --- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> > > > How else are we to explain how Lisa--who, undoubtedly, had
> > > been shipped over
> > > > from "A-for-Africa, ex French Cameroons" (or some such)--is
> > > able to
> > > > actually SPEAK the word "No!"
> > > >
> > > > That's Nothing! I saw a young chimpette, at the Hogle Zoo in
> > > Salt Lake, say
> > > > 'Hello'. Now she had to hold her nose in order to do it, but it
> > > was clear
> > > > and distinct! So I wouldn't think that saying the single syllable
> > > 'No' would
> > > > be much of a problem.
> > >
> > > *** In BATTLE, Lisa not only is able to speak monosyllables like
> > > "No", but also complete fluent English sentences. That involves
> > > syntax, and the vocal apparatus that "primitive" chimps just plain
> > > don't have. Lisa--like all the "intelligent" apes in BATTLE--is an
> > > "evolved" ape, of the same species as Cornelius, Zira, and Milo
> > > (since she's able to breed with the son of C & Z). Where did
> > > these three species of intelligent chimpanzees, orangutans and
> > > gorillas come from? How did they arrive on the scene in the late
> > > 20th Century? That is a question that was never answered in the
> > > POTA film series. It couldn't have been the brief amount of
> > > selective breeding in the "Breeding Annex" places (like the one in
> > > CONQUEST), since selective breeding of the sort would require
> > > at the very least HUNDREDS of generations to produce a
> > > significantly different outcome. Maybe the use of transgenics
> > > could do it in a few generations... MAYBE. But this would require
> > > the laboratory infusion of genetic material from another species
> > > (human? "alien"? hmmm...) into the spermatozoan or ovum prior
> > > to transplanting of the now-altered "fertilized" egg into a
> > > host-mother's uterus.
> > > My mega-POTA-novel will, of course, go into a fair amount of
> > > detail to "explain" in a scientifically plausible way how
> > > Mandemus, Virgil, Aldo, Lisa (etc.) and their respective "evolved"
> > > species were able to come into existence.
> > >
> > > Patrick Michael Tilton
> > > EARTH-TIME 6-08-2002
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

>
>

And then people here would not have to see any posts about Hillary's ass.
I bet the group would rather you keep those thoughts to yourself.

>
>For obvious reasons, I strongly suggest we try to stay away from discussing
>religious or political opinions unless of course it is directly related to
>POTA.
>
>It just causes too much agro and this group does not need it.

>Rory, if your back.
>Send me your mailing address and I'll send you the Battle UNcut this monday
>as well.

It's strange not seeing 10 posts/day from Rory.

>Yet Heston could have declined to play the part, had he had any
>qualms about the thematic content of the film. Although Heston

And would that happen before or after your pole-shifted Australia moves
to the northern hemisphere?

>Clearly, SOMETHING had to have happened to a
>large enough number of Apes living in Africa and Southern Asia
>to create what amounts to another set of species (i.e. "evolved"
>versions of primitive chimps, gorillas & orangutans), which end
>up being shipped over to America (and Europe? South America?
>
>Patrick Michael Tilton
>EARTH-TIME 6-08-2002

Maybe they all came over from that mothership that carried Taylor in the
first movie...

>
> Is anyone here old enough to remember Marvel Comic's Planet Of The Apes
>Magazine? It was a black & white format mag which featured illustrated
>adaptations of the APES films, plus their original APES story line. The mag
>also featured regular articles about the films and the then new TV sereis.
> One of these articles was a Marvel-written, APES timeline. They layed out
>all film events in a chronological order.

The consensus here is that the Marvel timeline is a joke. But the magazines
are one of the best things a POTA fan can own, for the interviews and the
adaptations of the movie scripts.

Very true Michael. It's easy to look from the outside and tell other
people what they're doing wrong but until you're a parent yourself
you don't know how hard it really is.
About hitting kids, my parents never hit me, my brother or sister
and we've followed suit. All our kids have turned out great. Yet
anyone I know that hit their kids, the kids have had problems from
running away to drug abuse.

--- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> Please don't even think about commenting on what you should and
shouldn't do
> with kids unless you are a parent and have had some experience in
the
> matter.
>
> Being a parent includes using that book as a theological
foundation AND a
> punishment device. It includes all ideas, emotions and actions at
all times
> and these are dependant upon your own personal situation and mood
and how
> that flows with your partner's at any given time.
>
> And how this effects the child will depend upon that child's
personality.
>
> It is the single most complicated task for a human being and while
I could
> never condone certain behaviours, I can certainly understand now
how lesser
> persons can lose it with kids at times.
>
> Michael (who has spent the entire night listening to twins crying
> simultaneously and independently)
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: LordTZer0@A... [LordTZer0@A...]
> > Sent: Sunday, 9 June 2002 2:35
> > To: pota@y...
> > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Heston's politics & POTA
[somewhat OT]
> >
> >
> > Parents who spank their kids wind up in prison, too, thanks to
> > our way over
> > the top domestic violence laws. Etc.
> >
> > True, I have a feeling you could do everything right, not
> > mollycoddle them or
> > discipline them physically to the point of abuse. Give them
> > everything they
> > need, but not spoil them rotten either. Give them a good moral
center
> > without cramming religion down their throats and you'd still get
some bad
> > eggs. Like say Zaius, Ursus, or Aldo . . . or Hasslein, Breck or
> > Kolb. The
> > funny thing is, in all those cases rather than being criminals
they were
> > people in positions of power, who actually believed they were
> > doing the right
> > thing! Funny isn't it. It's the heroes and heroines of POTA
that are
> > considered the outlaws. Hmmm..... Yet again. Something to
think about.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >
> >

As my Grandfather use to say discussing politics is like teaching a
dog to type. You're never going to get back anything intelligent and
it just pisses off the dog.

--- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> Yes, I'm not saying let's avoid other topics as they arise, just
that maybe
> it will help structure our thoughts.
>
> Say for example we call this month "Planet" month and start at the
very
> beginning.
>
> But tomorrow someone comes up with a point about the Cartoon
Series.
>
> Well, so be it and let's discuss the cartoon series, but when that
> conversation dries up or ends with hostilities or personal
> religious/political ideals, we can say "Right, we were up to scene
3 weren't
> we? Do you realise there was another scene cut from there? This
scene
> differs from Serling's first script in the following ways:......."
>
> Just a thought.
>
> Michael.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Alan Maxwell [alan@a...]
> > Sent: Saturday, 8 June 2002 6:50
> > To: pota@y...
> > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Politics & POTA [somewhat
OT]
> >
> >
> > "Eileen Rankin" <emr1623@m...> wrote:
> > >fair enough about the off topic discussions, but I don't think
we
> > need to >have structured discussions on monthly topics. when
you get
> > together with >friends for the weekend or for dinner, do you say
> > "tonight we will discuss >only Battle..." or basketball, for that
> > matter.
> >
> > True, but the advantage is that although you pick one topic to
start
> > with, it will invariably bring up others, and lead to whole new
> > discussions anyway. It's really just a starting point.
> >
> > Alan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >
> >

I've always seen the end of Battle as a fork in the road. If the
species & races can continue to get along in peace things will turn
out much differently. But if they can't get past their hatreds and
prejudices; then they will all destroy themselves in the end. A good
moral to end the series and one that is still valid today.

--- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> I now agree with this, but only recently after much thought.
>
> I guess with the down nature of the film series and the way it was
always
> left open in case there would be another sequel (except for Planet
and
> Beneath and they still managed to do sequels!), I always expected
a Battle
> sequel would have the moral "you can't beat fate", and we would
find
> ourselves back in a circular timeline.
>
> Michael
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mlccougar@a... [mlccougar@a...]
> Sent: Sunday, 9 June 2002 3:13
> To: pota@y...
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Thoughts on a post-BATTLE...
>
>
> In a message dated 6/8/2002 10:10:16 AM Central Standard Time,
> veetus@e... writes:
>
>
>
> I put "Battle" in an alternate timeline initiated
by "Escape", so
> one can
> assume the physiology of those apes are different than our
apes. I
> put
> "Planet" and "Beneath" in our timeline (for gits and
shiggles) and
> assume
> our apes were genetically altered in the future.
> - - - Jeff
>
>
>
> I agree with you here. Both "Conquest" and "Battle" are part
of the
> second timeline initiated by the Ape-o-nauts arrival in "Escape."
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.

Yes and we'd all much rather talk about Nova's ass;-)

--- In pota@y..., "Melkor" <melkor@m...> wrote:
> And then people here would not have to see any posts about
Hillary's ass.
> I bet the group would rather you keep those thoughts to yourself.
>
> >
> >For obvious reasons, I strongly suggest we try to stay away from
discussing
> >religious or political opinions unless of course it is directly
related to
> >POTA.
> >
> >It just causes too much agro and this group does not need it.
>
>

That timeline is a joke. The one in to book 'Planet of the Apes
Chronicles' is far superior.

--- In pota@y..., "Melkor" <melkor@m...> wrote:
> >
> > Is anyone here old enough to remember Marvel Comic's Planet
Of The Apes
> >Magazine? It was a black & white format mag which featured
illustrated
> >adaptations of the APES films, plus their original APES story
line. The mag
> >also featured regular articles about the films and the then new
TV sereis.
> > One of these articles was a Marvel-written, APES timeline. They
layed out
> >all film events in a chronological order.
>
> The consensus here is that the Marvel timeline is a joke. But the
magazines
> are one of the best things a POTA fan can own, for the interviews
and the
> adaptations of the movie scripts.
>
>
>

Attachments :

Yeah, I guess he's moved up to the POTA 2001 e-group.
We're just not good enough for him anymore. :o)

I'll be sending along with Battle UNcut my apes music cd, about 8 tunes I
put together with movie sound bytes.

Best.
Al

>From: "Melkor" <melkor@...>
>Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Oh, Rory
>Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2002 17:10:20 -0700
>

_____

Well, excuse the frell outta ME! ;)Where can I find this sacred tome...?
Gristle P.

----- Original Message -----
From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 9:58 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Mavel mags


> That timeline is a joke. The one in to book 'Planet of the Apes
> Chronicles' is far superior.
>
> --- In pota@y..., "Melkor" <melkor@m...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Is anyone here old enough to remember Marvel Comic's Planet
> Of The Apes
> > >Magazine? It was a black & white format mag which featured
> illustrated
> > >adaptations of the APES films, plus their original APES story
> line. The mag
> > >also featured regular articles about the films and the then new
> TV sereis.
> > > One of these articles was a Marvel-written, APES timeline. They
> layed out
> > >all film events in a chronological order.
> >
> > The consensus here is that the Marvel timeline is a joke. But the
> magazines
> > are one of the best things a POTA fan can own, for the interviews
> and the
> > adaptations of the movie scripts.
> >
> >
> >

Don't be so sensitive or you'll never last on this board. Since you
asked though; you can find the book on the Barnes & Noble website:

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?
userid=1OY94EUZTF&isbn=0859653129

--- In pota@y..., "Jeff & Susan Stringer" <stringe@b...> wrote:
> Well, excuse the frell outta ME! ;)Where can I find this sacred
tome...?
> Gristle P.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@a...>
> To: <pota@y...>
> Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 9:58 PM
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Mavel mags
>
>
> > That timeline is a joke. The one in to book 'Planet of the Apes
> > Chronicles' is far superior.
> >
> > --- In pota@y..., "Melkor" <melkor@m...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Is anyone here old enough to remember Marvel Comic's
Planet
> > Of The Apes
> > > >Magazine? It was a black & white format mag which featured
> > illustrated
> > > >adaptations of the APES films, plus their original APES story
> > line. The mag
> > > >also featured regular articles about the films and the then
new
> > TV sereis.
> > > > One of these articles was a Marvel-written, APES timeline.
They
> > layed out
> > > >all film events in a chronological order.
> > >
> > > The consensus here is that the Marvel timeline is a joke. But
the
> > magazines
> > > are one of the best things a POTA fan can own, for the
interviews
> > and the
> > > adaptations of the movie scripts.
> > >
> > >
> > >

Who's sensitive...? You overlooked the " ;) " in my post. Is this anything
like the wondrous "STAR WARS Chronicles" book?
Gristle P.

----- Original Message -----
From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 1:12 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Mavel mags


> Don't be so sensitive or you'll never last on this board. Since you
> asked though; you can find the book on the Barnes & Noble website:
>
> http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?
> userid=1OY94EUZTF&isbn=0859653129
>
> --- In pota@y..., "Jeff & Susan Stringer" <stringe@b...> wrote:
> > Well, excuse the frell outta ME! ;)Where can I find this sacred
> tome...?
> > Gristle P.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@a...>
> > To: <pota@y...>
> > Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 9:58 PM
> > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Mavel mags
> >
> >
> > > That timeline is a joke. The one in to book 'Planet of the Apes
> > > Chronicles' is far superior.
> > >
> > > --- In pota@y..., "Melkor" <melkor@m...> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Is anyone here old enough to remember Marvel Comic's
> Planet
> > > Of The Apes
> > > > >Magazine? It was a black & white format mag which featured
> > > illustrated
> > > > >adaptations of the APES films, plus their original APES story
> > > line. The mag
> > > > >also featured regular articles about the films and the then
> new
> > > TV sereis.
> > > > > One of these articles was a Marvel-written, APES timeline.
> They
> > > layed out
> > > > >all film events in a chronological order.
> > > >
> > > > The consensus here is that the Marvel timeline is a joke. But
> the
> > > magazines
> > > > are one of the best things a POTA fan can own, for the
> interviews
> > > and the
> > > > adaptations of the movie scripts.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >

I don't know I never read the Star Wars book.

--- In pota@y..., "Jeff & Susan Stringer" <stringe@b...> wrote:
> Who's sensitive...? You overlooked the " ;) " in my post. Is
this anything
> like the wondrous "STAR WARS Chronicles" book?
> Gristle P.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@a...>
> To: <pota@y...>
> Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 1:12 AM
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Mavel mags
>
>
> > Don't be so sensitive or you'll never last on this board. Since
you
> > asked though; you can find the book on the Barnes & Noble
website:
> >
> > http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?
> > userid=1OY94EUZTF&isbn=0859653129
> >
> > --- In pota@y..., "Jeff & Susan Stringer" <stringe@b...> wrote:
> > > Well, excuse the frell outta ME! ;)Where can I find this
sacred
> > tome...?
> > > Gristle P.
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@a...>
> > > To: <pota@y...>
> > > Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 9:58 PM
> > > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Mavel mags
> > >
> > >
> > > > That timeline is a joke. The one in to book 'Planet of the
Apes
> > > > Chronicles' is far superior.
> > > >
> > > > --- In pota@y..., "Melkor" <melkor@m...> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is anyone here old enough to remember Marvel Comic's
> > Planet
> > > > Of The Apes
> > > > > >Magazine? It was a black & white format mag which featured
> > > > illustrated
> > > > > >adaptations of the APES films, plus their original APES
story
> > > > line. The mag
> > > > > >also featured regular articles about the films and the
then
> > new
> > > > TV sereis.
> > > > > > One of these articles was a Marvel-written, APES
timeline.
> > They
> > > > layed out
> > > > > >all film events in a chronological order.
> > > > >
> > > > > The consensus here is that the Marvel timeline is a joke.
But
> > the
> > > > magazines
> > > > > are one of the best things a POTA fan can own, for the
> > interviews
> > > > and the
> > > > > adaptations of the movie scripts.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >

--- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:

> OK, here's a good place to start - a philosophical discussion.
>
> Where did these talking apes who walk in an upright manner

get these gifts from?

>
> I have always thought that the original movie hinted on a cross

between a new type of evolution. Humans destroyed their
civilisation (not apes as per Conquest) and the apes just went
about evolving until they found themselves the superior species.
And the side effects of nuclear waste (well, I think we can all
assume that a nuclear holocaust is what caused Ms Liberty to
end up where she was.

>
> So how does this fit in with the cave they discovered towards

the end of Planet?

>
> Michael

*** This is just me thinking things through... but if we consider
ONLY the first film for a moment, we should be able to deduce
that the downfall of human civilization must have overlapped the
rise of simian intelligence and vocalizing ability. After all, the
Apes speak not just A language, but the English language in
particular. If the rise of simian intelligence were to have followed
the annihilation of human civilization by any amount of time, then
it follows that whatever language the now-able-to-speak Apes
devise would be something other than a "dead" language (dead
because its speakers are either dead or "de-volved" into
barbarism) like English.

The "cave" that Cornelius excavated proves that Mankind was
wiped out while at "the top of his game", and that no period of
"descent-into-barbarism" occurred prior to the Nuke war: the
artifacts which Taylor explains depict Man as a technology-using
being who compensates for his frailties by inventing
EYEGLASSES, FALSE TEETH, and ARTIFICIAL HEARTS.
Whoever the deceased man may have been who left those
trinkets behind, he lived in an era when Man made regular use of
such inventions. "He was a weak... fragile animal--but he was
here before you. And he was BETTER than you are!"

My 2¢...

Patrick Michael Tilton
EARTH-TIME 6-09-2002

*** Those who argue against a "circular Timeline" have to take
into account the fact that Cornelius--who had access to "secret
scrolls" that tell the hidden history of Man's downfall and the rise
of Apes--specifically mentions both a Dog-and-Cat-killing Plague
and an "ape named Aldo"... and, lo and behold, just such a
Plague takes place... and an ape with exactly that name appears
on the scene, and plays an important role in the transitional time
when Man's civilization is nuked out of existence and Simian
civilization arises. Granted, he puts forth a supposed 500-year
time interval between the Plague and the "advent" of Aldo, but
one could brush that aside either with arguments I've gone into
beforehand or by supposing that those "secret scrolls" were
compiled by imperfect historians centuries after the fact, who got
some of the details wrong. But that STILL doesn't invalidate the
fact that in BOTH of the "two timelines" (i.e. the "non-circular"
theory) there was the Pet Plague and that ape named Aldo...

I think the Circular Timeline better accounts for this. But that's
just me... feel free to argue against it.

Patrick Michael Tilton
EARTH-TIME 6-09-2002

--- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> Like I said, it was never definitively decided, just implied.
>
> Michael
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: james611102 [JamesA1102@a...]
> > Sent: Sunday, 9 June 2002 3:57
> > To: pota@y...
> > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Thoughts on a
post-BATTLE...
> >
> >
> > That is a valid interpetation. But there are those, including
Paul
> > Dehn, that see it as a time circle.
> >
> > --- In pota@y..., mlccougar@a... wrote:
> > > In a message dated 6/8/2002 10:10:16 AM Central
Standard Time,
> > > veetus@e... writes:
> > >
> > >
> > > > I put "Battle" in an alternate timeline initiated by
"Escape",
> > so one can
> > > > assume the physiology of those apes are different than
our apes.
> > I put
> > > > "Planet" and "Beneath" in our timeline (for gits and
shiggles)
> > and assume
> > > > our apes were genetically altered in the future.
> > > > - - - Jeff
> > > >
> > >
> > > I agree with you here. Both "Conquest" and "Battle" are part
of
> > the second
> > > timeline initiated by the Ape-o-nauts arrival in "Escape."
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >
> >

--- In pota@y..., "Melkor" <melkor@m...> wrote:

> >Yet Heston could have declined to play the part, had he had

any qualms about the thematic content of the film. Although
Heston

>
> And would that happen before or after your pole-shifted

Australia moves to the northern hemisphere?

***Would WHAT happen? Heston's decision to appear in POTA?
That'd be in, oh, what was it? about 1966-7...? I don't quite know
what kinda point you're trying to make here, Morgoth...

Patrick

You've lost me.

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Melkor [melkor@...]
> Sent: Sunday, 9 June 2002 10:07
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Politics & POTA [somewhat OT]
>
>
> And then people here would not have to see any posts about
> Hillary's ass.
> I bet the group would rather you keep those thoughts to yourself.
>
> >
> >For obvious reasons, I strongly suggest we try to stay away from
> discussing
> >religious or political opinions unless of course it is directly
> related to
> >POTA.
> >
> >It just causes too much agro and this group does not need it.
>
>

Personally the worst I do is a smack on the hand or on the behind when they
do something dangerous (not too often thankfully).

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: james611102 [JamesA1102@...]
> Sent: Sunday, 9 June 2002 11:51
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Children [TOTALLY OT]
>
>
> Very true Michael. It's easy to look from the outside and tell other
> people what they're doing wrong but until you're a parent yourself
> you don't know how hard it really is.
> About hitting kids, my parents never hit me, my brother or sister
> and we've followed suit. All our kids have turned out great. Yet
> anyone I know that hit their kids, the kids have had problems from
> running away to drug abuse.
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > Please don't even think about commenting on what you should and
> shouldn't do
> > with kids unless you are a parent and have had some experience in
> the
> > matter.
> >
> > Being a parent includes using that book as a theological
> foundation AND a
> > punishment device. It includes all ideas, emotions and actions at
> all times
> > and these are dependant upon your own personal situation and mood
> and how
> > that flows with your partner's at any given time.
> >
> > And how this effects the child will depend upon that child's
> personality.
> >
> > It is the single most complicated task for a human being and while
> I could
> > never condone certain behaviours, I can certainly understand now
> how lesser
> > persons can lose it with kids at times.
> >
> > Michael (who has spent the entire night listening to twins crying
> > simultaneously and independently)
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: LordTZer0@A... [LordTZer0@A...]
> > > Sent: Sunday, 9 June 2002 2:35
> > > To: pota@y...
> > > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Heston's politics & POTA
> [somewhat OT]
> > >
> > >
> > > Parents who spank their kids wind up in prison, too, thanks to
> > > our way over
> > > the top domestic violence laws. Etc.
> > >
> > > True, I have a feeling you could do everything right, not
> > > mollycoddle them or
> > > discipline them physically to the point of abuse. Give them
> > > everything they
> > > need, but not spoil them rotten either. Give them a good moral
> center
> > > without cramming religion down their throats and you'd still get
> some bad
> > > eggs. Like say Zaius, Ursus, or Aldo . . . or Hasslein, Breck or
> > > Kolb. The
> > > funny thing is, in all those cases rather than being criminals
> they were
> > > people in positions of power, who actually believed they were
> > > doing the right
> > > thing! Funny isn't it. It's the heroes and heroines of POTA
> that are
> > > considered the outlaws. Hmmm..... Yet again. Something to
> think about.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--- In pota@y..., "Melkor" <melkor@m...> wrote:

> >Clearly, SOMETHING had to have happened to a large

enough number of Apes living in Africa and Southern Asia to
create what amounts to another set of species (i.e. "evolved"
versions of primitive chimps, gorillas & orangutans), which end
up being shipped over to America (and Europe? South America?

>
>Patrick Michael Tilton
>EARTH-TIME 6-08-2002


> Maybe they all came over from that mothership that carried

Taylor in the first movie...

*** Ah, it warms my heart to know that you've taken the time to
read through my previously-posted "scenario", in order to make
wiseacre remarks like the above. Alas, your suggestion is quite
the non-sequitor. What is your point, other than to poke a little
obtuse fun at my "unflubbing scenario" ideas?

But, hey, to follow your train of thought... how about this?
Hasslein, after the appearance of the "ape-onauts", tells the
President that the two surviving chimps would be able to either
bear or beget children with primitive chimpanzees in a modern
day zoo; that's his great fear... that this indeed WILL happen and
bring about the nasty future the Apes described in their
Commission testimony. That's why Otto wants Zira and
Cornelius--and their unborn baby--to be killed.
So, then, in a way it is true that SOME of the intelligent apes in
the Future owe their existence in part to the
backwards-through-Time travelling apes, who did that
"retrotemporal" travelling in what I consider to be a
spaceplane/shuttlecraft that was a part of Taylor's "mothership"
in its expedition out to an unnamed star 320 lightyears away in
Orion.
Of course, only certain CHIMPS would be able to trace their
ancestry back to Caesar, son of Cornelius & Zira. My statement
regarding the origins of the intelligent Orangutans and Gorillas
still stands... and your referencing of my Scenario doesn't quite
make any sense in light of that.
Not that it was meant to, of course...

Patrick

I looked up "Star Wars Chronicles" on Amazon. Don't know what it is but
it's a $100 book! "Planet of the Apes Chronicles" is much more unassuming.
If you've read the 1972 "Apes" issue of "Cinefantastique" you've already got
two-thirds of it. Seems the best place to find "Chronicles", "POTA
Revisited" and "POTA Unofficial Companion" are at the Virgin Megastores.
They always seem to have them, if there's one near you. Tougher to find is
"Legend of the POTA" which I finally found at the famed Larry Edmunds' in
Hollywood (where Arthur Jacobs loved to shop). It's excellent, with a lot of
new info, especially on the development of the movie, that none of the other
books have. Etc. - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 4:24 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Mavel mags


> I don't know I never read the Star Wars book.
>
> --- In pota@y..., "Jeff & Susan Stringer" <stringe@b...> wrote:
> > Who's sensitive...? You overlooked the " ;) " in my post. Is
> this anything
> > like the wondrous "STAR WARS Chronicles" book?
> > Gristle P.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@a...>
> > To: <pota@y...>
> > Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 1:12 AM
> > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Mavel mags
> >
> >
> > > Don't be so sensitive or you'll never last on this board. Since
> you
> > > asked though; you can find the book on the Barnes & Noble
> website:
> > >
> > > http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?
> > > userid=1OY94EUZTF&isbn=0859653129
> > >
> > > --- In pota@y..., "Jeff & Susan Stringer" <stringe@b...> wrote:
> > > > Well, excuse the frell outta ME! ;)Where can I find this
> sacred
> > > tome...?
> > > > Gristle P.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@a...>
> > > > To: <pota@y...>
> > > > Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 9:58 PM
> > > > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Mavel mags
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > That timeline is a joke. The one in to book 'Planet of the
> Apes
> > > > > Chronicles' is far superior.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In pota@y..., "Melkor" <melkor@m...> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Is anyone here old enough to remember Marvel Comic's
> > > Planet
> > > > > Of The Apes
> > > > > > >Magazine? It was a black & white format mag which featured
> > > > > illustrated
> > > > > > >adaptations of the APES films, plus their original APES
> story
> > > > > line. The mag
> > > > > > >also featured regular articles about the films and the
> then
> > > new
> > > > > TV sereis.
> > > > > > > One of these articles was a Marvel-written, APES
> timeline.
> > > They
> > > > > layed out
> > > > > > >all film events in a chronological order.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The consensus here is that the Marvel timeline is a joke.
> But
> > > the
> > > > > magazines
> > > > > > are one of the best things a POTA fan can own, for the
> > > interviews
> > > > > and the
> > > > > > adaptations of the movie scripts.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >

From what I understand, physicists argue that alternate timelines are very
similar to each other and will vary slightly. In one universe, you hit the
home run, in another, you're sick and miss the game, etc. Just from my own
personal instincts I don't like to believe that things are unalterable. I
think we've discussed this before, but both Hasslein and Virgil argue that
you can "change lanes". One could go either way based on the evidence.
. - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 6:59 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Thoughts on a post-BATTLE...


> *** Those who argue against a "circular Timeline" have to take
> into account the fact that Cornelius--who had access to "secret
> scrolls" that tell the hidden history of Man's downfall and the rise
> of Apes--specifically mentions both a Dog-and-Cat-killing Plague
> and an "ape named Aldo"... and, lo and behold, just such a
> Plague takes place... and an ape with exactly that name appears
> on the scene, and plays an important role in the transitional time
> when Man's civilization is nuked out of existence and Simian
> civilization arises. Granted, he puts forth a supposed 500-year
> time interval between the Plague and the "advent" of Aldo, but
> one could brush that aside either with arguments I've gone into
> beforehand or by supposing that those "secret scrolls" were
> compiled by imperfect historians centuries after the fact, who got
> some of the details wrong. But that STILL doesn't invalidate the
> fact that in BOTH of the "two timelines" (i.e. the "non-circular"
> theory) there was the Pet Plague and that ape named Aldo...
>
> I think the Circular Timeline better accounts for this. But that's
> just me... feel free to argue against it.
>
> Patrick Michael Tilton
> EARTH-TIME 6-09-2002
>
> --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > Like I said, it was never definitively decided, just implied.
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: james611102 [JamesA1102@a...]
> > > Sent: Sunday, 9 June 2002 3:57
> > > To: pota@y...
> > > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Thoughts on a
> post-BATTLE...
> > >
> > >
> > > That is a valid interpetation. But there are those, including
> Paul
> > > Dehn, that see it as a time circle.
> > >
> > > --- In pota@y..., mlccougar@a... wrote:
> > > > In a message dated 6/8/2002 10:10:16 AM Central
> Standard Time,
> > > > veetus@e... writes:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I put "Battle" in an alternate timeline initiated by
> "Escape",
> > > so one can
> > > > > assume the physiology of those apes are different than
> our apes.
> > > I put
> > > > > "Planet" and "Beneath" in our timeline (for gits and
> shiggles)
> > > and assume
> > > > > our apes were genetically altered in the future.
> > > > > - - - Jeff
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > I agree with you here. Both "Conquest" and "Battle" are part
> of
> > > the second
> > > > timeline initiated by the Ape-o-nauts arrival in "Escape."
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Excellent. I'll have to check into that. The SW Chronicles has gown down
in price, I see. It was originally a $150.00 book. Worth every penny, too.
The definitive SW photo reference. Pics and text on EVERYTHING to do with
the films. I'll check my local Barnes & Noble for the Apes Chronicles.
Now, I hear that the "Behind The Planet Of The Apes" disc that comes in
the Apes Boxed set has additional info not found on the video or single DVD.
Anyone wanna give me some highlights...? Thanks.
Gristle P.

----- Original Message -----
From: <veetus@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 12:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Mavel mags


> I looked up "Star Wars Chronicles" on Amazon. Don't know what it is but
> it's a $100 book! "Planet of the Apes Chronicles" is much more unassuming.
> If you've read the 1972 "Apes" issue of "Cinefantastique" you've already
got
> two-thirds of it. Seems the best place to find "Chronicles", "POTA
> Revisited" and "POTA Unofficial Companion" are at the Virgin Megastores.
> They always seem to have them, if there's one near you. Tougher to find is
> "Legend of the POTA" which I finally found at the famed Larry Edmunds' in
> Hollywood (where Arthur Jacobs loved to shop). It's excellent, with a lot
of
> new info, especially on the development of the movie, that none of the
other
> books have. Etc. - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 4:24 AM
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Mavel mags
>
>
> > I don't know I never read the Star Wars book.
> >
> > --- In pota@y..., "Jeff & Susan Stringer" <stringe@b...> wrote:
> > > Who's sensitive...? You overlooked the " ;) " in my post. Is
> > this anything
> > > like the wondrous "STAR WARS Chronicles" book?
> > > Gristle P.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@a...>
> > > To: <pota@y...>
> > > Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 1:12 AM
> > > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Mavel mags
> > >
> > >
> > > > Don't be so sensitive or you'll never last on this board. Since
> > you
> > > > asked though; you can find the book on the Barnes & Noble
> > website:
> > > >
> > > > http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?
> > > > userid=1OY94EUZTF&isbn=0859653129
> > > >
> > > > --- In pota@y..., "Jeff & Susan Stringer" <stringe@b...> wrote:
> > > > > Well, excuse the frell outta ME! ;)Where can I find this
> > sacred
> > > > tome...?
> > > > > Gristle P.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@a...>
> > > > > To: <pota@y...>
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 9:58 PM
> > > > > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Mavel mags
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > That timeline is a joke. The one in to book 'Planet of the
> > Apes
> > > > > > Chronicles' is far superior.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In pota@y..., "Melkor" <melkor@m...> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Is anyone here old enough to remember Marvel Comic's
> > > > Planet
> > > > > > Of The Apes
> > > > > > > >Magazine? It was a black & white format mag which featured
> > > > > > illustrated
> > > > > > > >adaptations of the APES films, plus their original APES
> > story
> > > > > > line. The mag
> > > > > > > >also featured regular articles about the films and the
> > then
> > > > new
> > > > > > TV sereis.
> > > > > > > > One of these articles was a Marvel-written, APES
> > timeline.
> > > > They
> > > > > > layed out
> > > > > > > >all film events in a chronological order.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The consensus here is that the Marvel timeline is a joke.
> > But
> > > > the
> > > > > > magazines
> > > > > > > are one of the best things a POTA fan can own, for the
> > > > interviews
> > > > > > and the
> > > > > > > adaptations of the movie scripts.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >

Since we'll never time travel anyway, the argument is all a moot point.
It's all in which way the writer goes. One theory is that we're all
predestined, and that history will happen as it happened, as in "The Final
Countdown", and the other is that we can change history. Your choice.
Gristle P.

----- Original Message -----
From: <veetus@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Thoughts on a post-BATTLE...


> From what I understand, physicists argue that alternate timelines are
very
> similar to each other and will vary slightly. In one universe, you hit the
> home run, in another, you're sick and miss the game, etc. Just from my own
> personal instincts I don't like to believe that things are unalterable. I
> think we've discussed this before, but both Hasslein and Virgil argue that
> you can "change lanes". One could go either way based on the evidence.
> . - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 6:59 AM
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Thoughts on a post-BATTLE...
>
>
> > *** Those who argue against a "circular Timeline" have to take
> > into account the fact that Cornelius--who had access to "secret
> > scrolls" that tell the hidden history of Man's downfall and the rise
> > of Apes--specifically mentions both a Dog-and-Cat-killing Plague
> > and an "ape named Aldo"... and, lo and behold, just such a
> > Plague takes place... and an ape with exactly that name appears
> > on the scene, and plays an important role in the transitional time
> > when Man's civilization is nuked out of existence and Simian
> > civilization arises. Granted, he puts forth a supposed 500-year
> > time interval between the Plague and the "advent" of Aldo, but
> > one could brush that aside either with arguments I've gone into
> > beforehand or by supposing that those "secret scrolls" were
> > compiled by imperfect historians centuries after the fact, who got
> > some of the details wrong. But that STILL doesn't invalidate the
> > fact that in BOTH of the "two timelines" (i.e. the "non-circular"
> > theory) there was the Pet Plague and that ape named Aldo...
> >
> > I think the Circular Timeline better accounts for this. But that's
> > just me... feel free to argue against it.
> >
> > Patrick Michael Tilton
> > EARTH-TIME 6-09-2002
> >
> > --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > > Like I said, it was never definitively decided, just implied.
> > >
> > > Michael
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: james611102 [JamesA1102@a...]
> > > > Sent: Sunday, 9 June 2002 3:57
> > > > To: pota@y...
> > > > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Thoughts on a
> > post-BATTLE...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > That is a valid interpetation. But there are those, including
> > Paul
> > > > Dehn, that see it as a time circle.
> > > >
> > > > --- In pota@y..., mlccougar@a... wrote:
> > > > > In a message dated 6/8/2002 10:10:16 AM Central
> > Standard Time,
> > > > > veetus@e... writes:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > I put "Battle" in an alternate timeline initiated by
> > "Escape",
> > > > so one can
> > > > > > assume the physiology of those apes are different than
> > our apes.
> > > > I put
> > > > > > "Planet" and "Beneath" in our timeline (for gits and
> > shiggles)
> > > > and assume
> > > > > > our apes were genetically altered in the future.
> > > > > > - - - Jeff
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I agree with you here. Both "Conquest" and "Battle" are part
> > of
> > > > the second
> > > > > timeline initiated by the Ape-o-nauts arrival in "Escape."
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Barnes and Noble doesn't seem to carry "Ape" books. There were 2 copies of
the new "The Fall" novel and that's about it. But I've been to about 3
Virgin Megastores and they all have the nonfiction "Ape" books.
"Behind" Special Ed. has a lot of extras: the Edward G. Robinson makeup
test (remastered), lots of promos, outtakes and a 2 hr. interview with
Roddy. Plus the doc has scenes from all the movies and shows. For those just
getting into DVDs this would be a smart first purchase. Skip the movie box
set. Fox is reportedly coming out with new editions next year.
- - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff & Susan Stringer" <stringe@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 9:41 AM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Mavel mags


> Excellent. I'll have to check into that. The SW Chronicles has gown down
> in price, I see. It was originally a $150.00 book. Worth every penny, too.
> The definitive SW photo reference. Pics and text on EVERYTHING to do with
> the films. I'll check my local Barnes & Noble for the Apes Chronicles.
> Now, I hear that the "Behind The Planet Of The Apes" disc that comes in
> the Apes Boxed set has additional info not found on the video or single
DVD.
> Anyone wanna give me some highlights...? Thanks.
> Gristle P.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <veetus@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 12:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Mavel mags
>
>
> > I looked up "Star Wars Chronicles" on Amazon. Don't know what it is
but
> > it's a $100 book! "Planet of the Apes Chronicles" is much more
unassuming.
> > If you've read the 1972 "Apes" issue of "Cinefantastique" you've already
> got
> > two-thirds of it. Seems the best place to find "Chronicles", "POTA
> > Revisited" and "POTA Unofficial Companion" are at the Virgin Megastores.
> > They always seem to have them, if there's one near you. Tougher to find
is
> > "Legend of the POTA" which I finally found at the famed Larry Edmunds'
in
> > Hollywood (where Arthur Jacobs loved to shop). It's excellent, with a
lot
> of
> > new info, especially on the development of the movie, that none of the
> other
> > books have. Etc. - - Jeff
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@...>
> > To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 4:24 AM
> > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Mavel mags
> >
> >
> > > I don't know I never read the Star Wars book.
> > >
> > > --- In pota@y..., "Jeff & Susan Stringer" <stringe@b...> wrote:
> > > > Who's sensitive...? You overlooked the " ;) " in my post. Is
> > > this anything
> > > > like the wondrous "STAR WARS Chronicles" book?
> > > > Gristle P.
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@a...>
> > > > To: <pota@y...>
> > > > Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 1:12 AM
> > > > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Mavel mags
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Don't be so sensitive or you'll never last on this board. Since
> > > you
> > > > > asked though; you can find the book on the Barnes & Noble
> > > website:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?
> > > > > userid=1OY94EUZTF&isbn=0859653129
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In pota@y..., "Jeff & Susan Stringer" <stringe@b...> wrote:
> > > > > > Well, excuse the frell outta ME! ;)Where can I find this
> > > sacred
> > > > > tome...?
> > > > > > Gristle P.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@a...>
> > > > > > To: <pota@y...>
> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, June 08, 2002 9:58 PM
> > > > > > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Mavel mags
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > That timeline is a joke. The one in to book 'Planet of the
> > > Apes
> > > > > > > Chronicles' is far superior.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In pota@y..., "Melkor" <melkor@m...> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Is anyone here old enough to remember Marvel Comic's
> > > > > Planet
> > > > > > > Of The Apes
> > > > > > > > >Magazine? It was a black & white format mag which featured
> > > > > > > illustrated
> > > > > > > > >adaptations of the APES films, plus their original APES
> > > story
> > > > > > > line. The mag
> > > > > > > > >also featured regular articles about the films and the
> > > then
> > > > > new
> > > > > > > TV sereis.
> > > > > > > > > One of these articles was a Marvel-written, APES
> > > timeline.
> > > > > They
> > > > > > > layed out
> > > > > > > > >all film events in a chronological order.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The consensus here is that the Marvel timeline is a joke.
> > > But
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > magazines
> > > > > > > > are one of the best things a POTA fan can own, for the
> > > > > interviews
> > > > > > > and the
> > > > > > > > adaptations of the movie scripts.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >

All I can say is there have been scientists in the past who said going to
the moon was impossible. They're probably kicking themselves right now (or
maybe not). Etc. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff & Susan Stringer" <stringe@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 9:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Thoughts on a post-BATTLE...


> Since we'll never time travel anyway, the argument is all a moot point.
> It's all in which way the writer goes. One theory is that we're all
> predestined, and that history will happen as it happened, as in "The Final
> Countdown", and the other is that we can change history. Your choice.
> Gristle P.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <veetus@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 12:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Thoughts on a post-BATTLE...
>
>
> > From what I understand, physicists argue that alternate timelines are
> very
> > similar to each other and will vary slightly. In one universe, you hit
the
> > home run, in another, you're sick and miss the game, etc. Just from my
own
> > personal instincts I don't like to believe that things are unalterable.
I
> > think we've discussed this before, but both Hasslein and Virgil argue
that
> > you can "change lanes". One could go either way based on the evidence.
> > . - - Jeff
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
> > To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 6:59 AM
> > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Thoughts on a post-BATTLE...
> >
> >
> > > *** Those who argue against a "circular Timeline" have to take
> > > into account the fact that Cornelius--who had access to "secret
> > > scrolls" that tell the hidden history of Man's downfall and the rise
> > > of Apes--specifically mentions both a Dog-and-Cat-killing Plague
> > > and an "ape named Aldo"... and, lo and behold, just such a
> > > Plague takes place... and an ape with exactly that name appears
> > > on the scene, and plays an important role in the transitional time
> > > when Man's civilization is nuked out of existence and Simian
> > > civilization arises. Granted, he puts forth a supposed 500-year
> > > time interval between the Plague and the "advent" of Aldo, but
> > > one could brush that aside either with arguments I've gone into
> > > beforehand or by supposing that those "secret scrolls" were
> > > compiled by imperfect historians centuries after the fact, who got
> > > some of the details wrong. But that STILL doesn't invalidate the
> > > fact that in BOTH of the "two timelines" (i.e. the "non-circular"
> > > theory) there was the Pet Plague and that ape named Aldo...
> > >
> > > I think the Circular Timeline better accounts for this. But that's
> > > just me... feel free to argue against it.
> > >
> > > Patrick Michael Tilton
> > > EARTH-TIME 6-09-2002
> > >
> > > --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > > > Like I said, it was never definitively decided, just implied.
> > > >
> > > > Michael
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: james611102 [JamesA1102@a...]
> > > > > Sent: Sunday, 9 June 2002 3:57
> > > > > To: pota@y...
> > > > > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Thoughts on a
> > > post-BATTLE...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > That is a valid interpetation. But there are those, including
> > > Paul
> > > > > Dehn, that see it as a time circle.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In pota@y..., mlccougar@a... wrote:
> > > > > > In a message dated 6/8/2002 10:10:16 AM Central
> > > Standard Time,
> > > > > > veetus@e... writes:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I put "Battle" in an alternate timeline initiated by
> > > "Escape",
> > > > > so one can
> > > > > > > assume the physiology of those apes are different than
> > > our apes.
> > > > > I put
> > > > > > > "Planet" and "Beneath" in our timeline (for gits and
> > > shiggles)
> > > > > and assume
> > > > > > > our apes were genetically altered in the future.
> > > > > > > - - - Jeff
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I agree with you here. Both "Conquest" and "Battle" are part
> > > of
> > > > > the second
> > > > > > timeline initiated by the Ape-o-nauts arrival in "Escape."
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html  

Please don't even think about commenting on what you should and shouldn't do
with kids unless you are a parent and have had some experience in the matter.

I wasn't talking about kids.  Iwas talking about environment vs genetics.  Ever see Trading Places?

<.html

Opps...wrong subject line.

Toons! or 2001, or both.
Is one better than the other?

T F Bradford
2411 S. i - 35 East # 1321
Denton, Texas 76210


Thanks,
T

.html  

So is that version X-Rated or just R-Rated?

Strictly soft-core.
There is no X version.
At least there won't be, until I make my porn epic . . .
PLANET OF THE RAPES
In which Dr. Zira keeps Taylor and Nova as sex slaves
and performs experiments on them...
Sexy experiments!

<.html

About time travel... every possible event, choice, action, etc. happens. Time prevents all this stuff from going on at the same time by splitting itself nano-second by nano-second into an infinite number of time lines. Not different dimensions, that's another topic all together. If one day humans find a way to travel thru time, the time machine will actually not travel to these other time lines or within its own, but upon breaking the time barrier, a new time line will be created based on where the time machine came from and where its going. (if indeed that part is even controllable) So you couldn't travel back in time to kill Hitler and have that change be seen in our time line. However, you could remain in the new time line you just created where Hitler was killed and observe the results of your alteration. Geez, I hope this makes sense to somebody. I never was very good at explaining stuff. ;o) Anyway, this 'time splitting' theory goes along with my belief that you can't change the future of this time line. For no matter how hard you try to change this one, all you're really doing is creating altered new timelines based on this one. Though, from the time travelers perspective, he/she would not notice this. Nor would, he/she realize that it is now impossible for them to get back to their original time line. Think of it as time's back flow protection valve. To prevent time from falling apart or becoming unstable anything not bound by it's rules will only travel in one direction within it. Not in regards to the past or future, but in regards to going from one time line to another. You can never enter again the time line you came from or one you've been to previously. So, even if the fact would seem invisible to the time traveler, they could never go home again.

 

ThyPentacle

 

  Jeff & Susan Stringer <stringe@...> wrote:

  Since we'll never time travel anyway, the argument is all a moot point.
It's all in which way the writer goes. One theory is that we're all
predestined, and that history will happen as it happened, as in "The Final
Countdown", and the other is that we can change history. Your choice.
Gristle P.


----- Original Message -----
From: <veetus@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 12:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Thoughts on a post-BATTLE...


>   From what I understand, physicists argue that alternate timelines are
very
> similar to each other and will vary slightly. In one universe, you hit the
> home run, in another, you're sick and miss the game, etc. Just from my own
> personal instincts I don't like to believe that things are unalterable. I
> think we've discussed this before, but both Hasslein and Virgil argue that
> you can "change lanes". One could go either way based on the evidence.
> .    - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 6:59 AM
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Thoughts on a post-BATTLE...
>
>
> > *** Those who argue against a "circular Timeline" have to take
> > into account the fact that Cornelius--who had access to "secret
> > scrolls" that tell the hidden history of Man's downfall and the rise
> > of Apes--specifically mentions both a Dog-and-Cat-killing Plague
> > and an "ape named Aldo"... and, lo and behold, just such a
> > Plague takes place... and an ape with exactly that name appears
> > on the scene, and plays an important role in the transitional time
> > when Man's civilization is nuked out of existence and Simian
> > civilization arises. Granted, he puts forth a supposed 500-year
> > time interval between the Plague and the "advent" of Aldo, but
> > one could brush that aside either with arguments I've gone into
> > beforehand or by supposing that those "secret scrolls" were
> > compiled by imperfect historians centuries after the fact, who got
> > some of the details wrong. But that STILL doesn't invalidate the
> > fact that in BOTH of the "two timelines" (i.e. the "non-circular"
> > theory) there was the Pet Plague and that ape named Aldo...
> >
> > I think the Circular Timeline better accounts for this. But that's
> > just me... feel free to argue against it.
> >
> > Patrick Michael Tilton
> > EARTH-TIME 6-09-2002
> >
> > --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > > Like I said, it was never definitively decided, just implied.
> > >
> > > Michael
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: james611102 [JamesA1102@a...]
> > > > Sent: Sunday, 9 June 2002 3:57
> > > > To: pota@y...
> > > > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Thoughts on a
> > post-BATTLE...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > That is a valid interpetation. But there are those, including
> > Paul
> > > > Dehn, that see it as a time circle.
> > > >
> > > > --- In pota@y..., mlccougar@a... wrote:
> > > > > In a message dated 6/8/2002 10:10:16 AM Central
> > Standard Time,
> > > > > veetus@e... writes:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >   I put "Battle" in an alternate timeline initiated by
> > "Escape",
> > > > so one can
> > > > > > assume the physiology of those apes are different than
> > our apes.
> > > > I put
> > > > > > "Planet" and "Beneath" in our timeline (for gits and
> > shiggles)
> > > > and assume
> > > > > > our apes were genetically altered in the future.
> > > > > >      - - - Jeff
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I agree with you here. Both "Conquest" and "Battle" are part
> > of
> > > > the second
> > > > > timeline initiated by the Ape-o-nauts arrival in "Escape."
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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