Not a bad idea, Helen, but they tend to want a human star and we follow
them around instead of an ape. A reviewer mentioned that Burton would have
probably been happiest and done the best job if he could build the movie
around Ari and Thade, that that's where his interest was. But familiarity
sells and he had to follow the human star. Etc. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "sand_hill_school" <sand_hill_school@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 3:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] What would you do?


>
> > ....I would suggest one more criterion: the creators are
> > familiar with the apes saga and adhere to established convention
> (as much as
> > they contradict each other anyway).
> >
>
>
> Ok Michael. For what it is worth:
>
> I agree. Someone who is familiar with the Apes saga should write
> this. Now, bearing that in mind...
>
> There are so many stories to be told. I think the TV series may have
> represented these stories somewhat, but I am not very familiar with
> the TV series. So, if we just follow the 5 movies I would suggest
> (again) taking a different point of view.
>
> The Gorillas show the most variety of charactor. Warrior, hunter,
> working class. They show amazing extremes of emotion (unlike the
> Chimps who are very even) and are not as polarized in their views as
> the orangutans.
>
> I would love to see more of the Planet and the Apes' social/political
> interactions. I'm not a writer, so I don't know what sells. But
> rather than being the outsider, I would like to be made to feel like
> one of them -- the Apes. And in my opinion, the Gorilla point of
> view allows the most possibilities for capturing a story. Not to
> contradict the 5 story saga, not to explain it, not to ignore it.
> Just to dig deeper into the Ape world -- as an Ape. Some writer
> should be able to figure this out and provide us with some good
> material.
>
>
> >
> > Someone should do some statistics one day on the value of posts in
> this
> > group. I'll take a punt: 45% insults, 35% smart a** one liners,
> 15% off
> > topic, 5% worth reading.
> >
>
>
> You're right. Guilty. Usually catch a topic near the end when there
> isn't much left to contribute.
>
> --Helen
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I like it too.

I just sent a private to T accidentally that said:

(1) What would be an appropriate medium (eg novel, comic strip, TV
Show, Cable Show, Movie)?

(2) Would you put these all together in one film without linking them
via some commentary about what happens in the films?

My suggestion is that to make something like this work, you would
start with the idea, then get the words, then run by the group to
check for accuracy and inconsistencies, then re-draft (ad infinitum)
and maybe sell out a bit by adding a few elements that would appeal
to an audience (but not put all the emphasis on this aspect as per
POTA 2001!!) then you have a script or a novel or a comic strip.
Voila!

With T's ideas I think they would suit the TV/Cable mini-series
medium. Maybe with a voice-over commentator to explain to the
audience the events (films) they have missed.

The first episode could be Zira and Corn meeting at the Academy. A
sort of love story, but we need to add an interesting idea (eg
rivalry: a jealous rival plots to murder Cornelius - or something
that explores the whole "ape shall never kill ape" thing - are we to
believe that ape never kills ape? Or is it like a Commandment and
simply because it is stated this does not mean the rule is adhered
to?). Maybe explore some chimps stealing drugs from med. school and
selling them - that would fit nicely with the Beneath portrayal of
the protesting chimps!

There is a whole series here!

My suggestion would be to get some ggod words, make a comic strip
(rough sketches - if the publisher likes it they will get their own
artists) then look at turning it into celluloid.

Comments?

Michael

--- "sand_hill_school" <sand_hill_school@...> wrote:

> I like it, LT. (Oops. One line[r].)
>
> --Helen
>
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> >
> > > I believe I have posed a fair question and a whole day later
> there is one
> > > response. I
> > > already know Patrick's response to this because his passion is

to

> create
> > > one
> > > story that makes sense of all other films and from what I can
> tell there
> > > are
> > > a few other concepts too
> >
> > Okay Mikey, allow me to try and make it into the 5%. Here's an
> idea though
> > it might be a stupid one. How about making a single film about

all

> the time
> > in-between films. You could start with Zira and Cornelius

meeting

> at the
> > Academy, graduating and Zira studying humans while Corny goes on
> his dig.
> > Then on to the trail and cover up and Milo salvaging the ship and
> them taking
> > off and the bomb going off. Then Caesar growing up in the circus
> and finish
> > with the war that lead up to battle.
>
>
> ------------------------ ---------------------

~-->

> Will You Find True Love?
> Will You Meet the One?
> Free Love Reading by phone!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/Deo18C/zDLEAA/Ey.GAA/9_IolB/TM
> --------------------------------------------------------------------

-~->

>
>
>
>

>
>
>

Hmmm.

Escape didn't follow a human star, nor did Conquest or Battle.

I must admit I was a bit uneasy with the thought at first, but as I
thought more about it, there is not much you could not transfer/adapt
to ape society and who needs humans all the time?

It should be attempted.

Michael


--- <veetus@...> wrote:

> Not a bad idea, Helen, but they tend to want a human star and we

follow

> them around instead of an ape. A reviewer mentioned that Burton

would have

> probably been happiest and done the best job if he could build the

movie

> around Ari and Thade, that that's where his interest was. But

familiarity

> sells and he had to follow the human star. Etc. - - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "sand_hill_school" <sand_hill_school@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 3:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] What would you do?
>
>
> >
> > > ....I would suggest one more criterion: the creators are
> > > familiar with the apes saga and adhere to established convention
> > (as much as
> > > they contradict each other anyway).
> > >
> >
> >
> > Ok Michael. For what it is worth:
> >
> > I agree. Someone who is familiar with the Apes saga should write
> > this. Now, bearing that in mind...
> >
> > There are so many stories to be told. I think the TV series may

have

> > represented these stories somewhat, but I am not very familiar

with

> > the TV series. So, if we just follow the 5 movies I would suggest
> > (again) taking a different point of view.
> >
> > The Gorillas show the most variety of charactor. Warrior, hunter,
> > working class. They show amazing extremes of emotion (unlike the
> > Chimps who are very even) and are not as polarized in their views

as

> > the orangutans.
> >
> > I would love to see more of the Planet and the Apes'

social/political

> > interactions. I'm not a writer, so I don't know what sells. But
> > rather than being the outsider, I would like to be made to feel

like

> > one of them -- the Apes. And in my opinion, the Gorilla point of
> > view allows the most possibilities for capturing a story. Not to
> > contradict the 5 story saga, not to explain it, not to ignore it.
> > Just to dig deeper into the Ape world -- as an Ape. Some writer
> > should be able to figure this out and provide us with some good
> > material.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Someone should do some statistics one day on the value of posts

in

> > this
> > > group. I'll take a punt: 45% insults, 35% smart a** one

liners,

> > 15% off
> > > topic, 5% worth reading.
> > >
> >
> >
> > You're right. Guilty. Usually catch a topic near the end when

there

> > isn't much left to contribute.
> >
> > --Helen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------ ---------------------

~-->

> Will You Find True Love?
> Will You Meet the One?
> Free Love Reading by phone!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/Deo18C/zDLEAA/Ey.GAA/9_IolB/TM
> --------------------------------------------------------------------

-~->

>
>
>
>

>
>
>

Attachments :

.html <.html

Attachments :

.html <.html

That's pretty funny!

The pics on the card are lifted straight from the Addar model kits
with guns drawn in!

Zira and Cornelius look very threatening!

By the way, I always had a theory that the Addar people got Zira
mixed up with the blind chimp from the TV Series when they did that
kit of Zira because she looks BLIND!!!!

Michael

--- "mystic4ever" <mystic4ever@...> wrote:

> Has anyone else out there seen these? I saw the display for the

first time

> today for these SPACE OF THE APES figures. Apparently they were

released

> in May. Kind of hokey, but if you loved the Burton movie like I

did, you'l

> l probably like them! Odd packaging since the blister card has

modified p

> ics of the classic characters, but the actual figures are all POTA

2001 ins

> pired. There are six that I've seen. I've attached scans of two

of the "g

> orillas". The others are a male & female human where the female

resembles

> Daena and the male is an astronaut who doesn't look much like

Wahlberg; ano

> ther gorilla with gold colouring and there's a female warrior

gorilla.

>
> Dan
>
>
>

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: mystic4ever

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 11:20 AM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] New POTA toys....scan 2

 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

<.html

Urko's wall map shows part of Baja California so the apes must have explored at
least part of northern Mexico. Central City looks roughly between Phoenix and
San Diego so they are already close. It actually looks like Urko's map has
scarecrows in the south -- apparently all of Mexico is the Forbidden Zone of
the TV series. So maybe there are only humans in Mexico but the apes don't
want anyone to know.

Melkor (Morgoth)

> >"Melkor" <melkor@...> wrote:
>> I always wandered if Virden and Burke and gone far enough south,
>would
>> they have found Spanish speaking apes? Or if humans had still ruled
>Mexico
>> wouldn't the apes be aware of it? There could have been an
>interesting
>> episode.
>
>Suddenly I can't help picturing an all-musical episode with the
>fugitives and Urko all dancing about to the sounds of tijuana brass.
>
>I think I need help.
>
>Alan

>
>Rather than tie in directly with the movies or anything like that I
>would like to see lots of different creative teams tackle different
>aspects of the Planet of the Apes outside the area we are familiar
>with. Like "Ape City" did with Europe, why not let us see what
>happened in Africa, in Japan, in Australia, etc. Funny or serious, it
>doesn't matter as long as they're creative, and above all else
>enjoyable.
>

Yes there is plenty of room for POTA stories in other countries. On the
other hand Borneo doesn't have enough orangutans to export them everywhere
in the world so there would have to be a lot of places without apes.

I guess that depends how the story is developed.

I would not be at all surprised to see science breeding endangered
species in laboratories and returning them to higher numbers in the
near future ("as dead as a dodo" may soon mean something is
resurrected, not extinct!).

Michael

--- "Melkor" <melkor@...> wrote:

> >
> >Rather than tie in directly with the movies or anything like that I
> >would like to see lots of different creative teams tackle different
> >aspects of the Planet of the Apes outside the area we are familiar
> >with. Like "Ape City" did with Europe, why not let us see what
> >happened in Africa, in Japan, in Australia, etc. Funny or serious,

it

> >doesn't matter as long as they're creative, and above all else
> >enjoyable.
> >
>
> Yes there is plenty of room for POTA stories in other countries.

On the

> other hand Borneo doesn't have enough orangutans to export them

everywhere

> in the world so there would have to be a lot of places without apes.
>
>
>
>

There are stories begging to be told to fill in the gaps between the
five original movies. But I wouldn't try to put them together into a movie.
There would be a possible four separate stories.

As for your original question the story I would most like to see is the story
in between BENEATH and ESCAPE and the whole story of Dr. Milo. How does Milo
get permission to spend so much time in the forbidden zone? When and why
does Milo tell Cornelius and Zira about the Icarus? Does Lucius or anyone
else know?

>
>(1) What would be an appropriate medium (eg novel, comic strip, TV
>Show, Cable Show, Movie)?
>
>(2) Would you put these all together in one film without linking them
>via some commentary about what happens in the films?

That is wicked!
Even Burton's Apes have machine guns.

Thank God for Medicoms.

Best.
Al

>From: "mystic4ever" <mystic4ever@...>
>Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: [Planet of the Apes] New POTA toys....scan 2
>Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 21:20:21 -0400
>
>
><< spaceapes1.JPG >>

_____

The later sequels were unique and by then Roddy was the star. But that was
a lower budget range. For a big $100 million movie they'd do now, they want
a bankable HUMAN star. Oliver Stone told "Cinefantastique" he toyed with the
idea of Schwartzenegger as the human and Stallone as the ape villain, and
said Stallone was hurt by that. Etc. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: <whitty@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 5:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] What would you do?


> Hmmm.
>
> Escape didn't follow a human star, nor did Conquest or Battle.
>
> I must admit I was a bit uneasy with the thought at first, but as I
> thought more about it, there is not much you could not transfer/adapt
> to ape society and who needs humans all the time?
>
> It should be attempted.
>
> Michael
>
>
> --- <veetus@...> wrote:
> > Not a bad idea, Helen, but they tend to want a human star and we
> follow
> > them around instead of an ape. A reviewer mentioned that Burton
> would have
> > probably been happiest and done the best job if he could build the
> movie
> > around Ari and Thade, that that's where his interest was. But
> familiarity
> > sells and he had to follow the human star. Etc. - - - Jeff
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "sand_hill_school" <sand_hill_school@...>
> > To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 3:29 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] What would you do?
> >
> >
> > >
> > > > ....I would suggest one more criterion: the creators are
> > > > familiar with the apes saga and adhere to established convention
> > > (as much as
> > > > they contradict each other anyway).
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ok Michael. For what it is worth:
> > >
> > > I agree. Someone who is familiar with the Apes saga should write
> > > this. Now, bearing that in mind...
> > >
> > > There are so many stories to be told. I think the TV series may
> have
> > > represented these stories somewhat, but I am not very familiar
> with
> > > the TV series. So, if we just follow the 5 movies I would suggest
> > > (again) taking a different point of view.
> > >
> > > The Gorillas show the most variety of charactor. Warrior, hunter,
> > > working class. They show amazing extremes of emotion (unlike the
> > > Chimps who are very even) and are not as polarized in their views
> as
> > > the orangutans.
> > >
> > > I would love to see more of the Planet and the Apes'
> social/political
> > > interactions. I'm not a writer, so I don't know what sells. But
> > > rather than being the outsider, I would like to be made to feel
> like
> > > one of them -- the Apes. And in my opinion, the Gorilla point of
> > > view allows the most possibilities for capturing a story. Not to
> > > contradict the 5 story saga, not to explain it, not to ignore it.
> > > Just to dig deeper into the Ape world -- as an Ape. Some writer
> > > should be able to figure this out and provide us with some good
> > > material.
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Someone should do some statistics one day on the value of posts
> in
> > > this
> > > > group. I'll take a punt: 45% insults, 35% smart a** one
> liners,
> > > 15% off
> > > > topic, 5% worth reading.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > You're right. Guilty. Usually catch a topic near the end when
> there
> > > isn't much left to contribute.
> > >
> > > --Helen
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ ---------------------
> ~-->
> > Will You Find True Love?
> > Will You Meet the One?
> > Free Love Reading by phone!
> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/Deo18C/zDLEAA/Ey.GAA/9_IolB/TM
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> -~->
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: mystic4ever

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 6:19 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] New Ape Toys: SPACE OF THE APES!

Has anyone else out there seen these?  I saw the display for the first time today for these SPACE OF THE APES figures.  Apparently they were released in May.  Kind of hokey, but if you loved the Burton movie like I did, you'll probably like them!   Odd packaging since the blister card has modified pics of the classic characters, but the actual figures are all POTA 2001 inspired.  There are six that I've seen.  I've attached scans of two of the "gorillas".  The others are a male & female human where the female resembles Daena and the male is an astronaut who doesn't look much like Wahlberg; another gorilla with gold colouring and there's a female warrior gorilla. 

 

Dan

 

 

<.html

That's my vote, too. A story to fill in the gaps of "Beneath". Or one
between "Conquest" and "Battle" showing the apes taking over. But only if
it's done well. Etc. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Melkor" <melkor@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 7:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] What would you do


> There are stories begging to be told to fill in the gaps between the
> five original movies. But I wouldn't try to put them together into a
movie.
> There would be a possible four separate stories.
>
> As for your original question the story I would most like to see is the
story
> in between BENEATH and ESCAPE and the whole story of Dr. Milo. How does
Milo
> get permission to spend so much time in the forbidden zone? When and why
> does Milo tell Cornelius and Zira about the Icarus? Does Lucius or anyone
> else know?
>
>
> >
> >(1) What would be an appropriate medium (eg novel, comic strip, TV
> >Show, Cable Show, Movie)?
> >
> >(2) Would you put these all together in one film without linking them
> >via some commentary about what happens in the films?
>
>
>

> Well, "Apes" is now at Dark Horse, the home of the crossover. They're the
>folks that brought you "Alien vs. Predator" (which is Fox's next big sci-fi

The "Alien vs. Predator" idea comes from one of the Predator
movies where the Predator spaceship contains an "Alien" trophy head.

>epic. Don't know if their license includes the original "Apes" but I
>wouldn't be surprised if they do "Zauis vs. Predator vs. Superman" and
>dedicate it to Cougar. Etc. - - -

There is a Superman graphic novel that has a bunch of intelligent apes
but I haven't read it.

> > > I never got around to getting these. Are they worth a look? For the
> > > unintiated, it's an APES/Alien Nation crossover tale.
> > > Gristle P.

I have the first issue of Ape Nation but I never found the rest.

These are unlicensed figures. Probably from Mexico. You should see their
STAR WARS knockoffs. Scary.
Gristle P.

----- Original Message -----
From: "mystic4ever" <mystic4ever@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 9:19 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] New Ape Toys: SPACE OF THE APES!


Has anyone else out there seen these? I saw the display for the first time
today for these SPACE OF THE APES figures. Apparently they were released in
May. Kind of hokey, but if you loved the Burton movie like I did, you'll
probably like them! Odd packaging since the blister card has modified pics
of the classic characters, but the actual figures are all POTA 2001
inspired. There are six that I've seen. I've attached scans of two of the
"gorillas". The others are a male & female human where the female resembles
Daena and the male is an astronaut who doesn't look much like Wahlberg;
another gorilla with gold colouring and there's a female warrior gorilla.

Dan

OK Mr Krueger, give us a brief outline of a plot here.

Michael

--- <veetus@...> wrote:

> That's my vote, too. A story to fill in the gaps of "Beneath".

Or one

> between "Conquest" and "Battle" showing the apes taking over. But

only if

> it's done well. Etc. - - -

Jeff

>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Melkor" <melkor@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 7:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] What would you do
>
>
> > There are stories begging to be told to fill in the gaps between

the

> > five original movies. But I wouldn't try to put them together

into a

> movie.
> > There would be a possible four separate stories.
> >
> > As for your original question the story I would most like to see

is the

> story
> > in between BENEATH and ESCAPE and the whole story of Dr. Milo.

How does

> Milo
> > get permission to spend so much time in the forbidden zone? When

and why

> > does Milo tell Cornelius and Zira about the Icarus? Does Lucius

or anyone

> > else know?
> >
> >
> > >
> > >(1) What would be an appropriate medium (eg novel, comic strip,

TV

> > >Show, Cable Show, Movie)?
> > >
> > >(2) Would you put these all together in one film without linking

them

> > >via some commentary about what happens in the films?
> >
> >
> >

Here's their site, but no pics of the actual kit. Just the photo on the
box, which is a still from the beach scene. There is however, a photo of the
Caesar. Or I could send you photos of mine.
www.modelprisoners.com
Gristle P.

----- Original Message -----
From: <LordTZer0@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 7:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Let's Try This:


> They also do a three-figure kit of Zira, Cornelius and Dr. Milo in their
> space suits.
>
> Any pics of those? Anywho...I had the mask, and a costume made for a
> Halloween party that's now well over 25 years old. Luckily my Mom's
pretty
> handy with a sewing machine. It still looks pretty good, but I had the
> physic of a concentration camp prisoner back then so its not going to fit
> now. And all sorts of posters and lobby cards etc... As well as some
> appliances. I did have one I did when I was a kid, but foam rubber
doesn't
> keep forever. I have a couple of models and Medicoms. The usual. But a
lot
> was lost to garage sales in my late teens. The trash can, the game . . .
In
> fact I'm not absolutely sure I didn't buy back my own model from a toy
> collectors store a quater century later at five times the price!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.htmlIn a message dated 6/13/2002 3:29:53 PM Central Standard Time, alan@... writes:

But you only just admitted you never actually read it! Let's not start
this again.

Alan

Yes, I know I admitted I actually never actually read the thing. BUT, I can say it makes the two franchises look stupid because just the idea of it alone is bad. I mean an APE and a NEWCOMER in the same story?!?.... Not gonna make a good story, so that's why I said it, say it now, and will continue to say it.<.html

I know a lot of people who automatically dismiss the idea of "talking
apes" the same way.

ABMAC

On Thursday, June 13, 2002, at 11:34 PM, mlccougar@... wrote:

> Yes, I know I admitted I actually never actually read the thing. BUT, I
> can say it makes the two franchises look stupid because just the idea
> of it alone is bad. I mean an APE and a NEWCOMER in the same
> story?!?.... Not gonna make a good story, so that's why I said it, say
> it now, and will continue to say it.

A long time ago (But not so far away) I decided to try and write a
stroy that filled in the 'gap' between Planet and Beneath - this was
before I realised I couldn't write for sh*t.

I did the first chapter of what I called 'Milo's Tale' (which was
published in a fanzine) and then abandoned it. Anyway, just for a
giggle here my un-revised outline that's been sitting on my hard drive
for at least 9 years.

CHAPTER 1

Milo discovers Taylor's ship... his studies soon teach him about the
possibility of flight. At this stage Milo would love to get the ship
back into the air - not realising it is actually intended for
interstellar space travel.

CHAPTER 2 - 3
He soon realises the spacecraft represents many sciences that the High
council have repressed or banned outright. He also knows he would not
be allowed to study the ship openly and fearing it's destruction
before he has the chance to learn all it has to offer, he decides to
keep it a secret.

CHAPTER 4
Milo reluctantly returns to Ape city knowing that his continued
absence would only raise unwelcome questions. - Suspicion rules - his
motives are questioned and his "souvenirs" confiscated. He appears
before the High Council and is severely reprimanded for exceeding his
travel permit. After careful questioning he denies finding anything of
great interest but Zaius suspects he is lying. Especially when he
shows Milo a US flag found among his belongings. Milo is rescued by
Ursus who wrongfully concludes that the flag must belong to some other
Simian population who are beginning to invade and claim the Zone as
their own. He begins his argument over the need to expand and invade
before this Ape City finds itself painted into a corner. We suspect
Zaius knows Ursus is wrong but cannot confront him without raising
more questions.

CHAPTER 5
Frustrated by the councils obvious aversion to the truth Milo hatches
a fantasy whereby he will fly the spacecraft over the skies of Ape
city - a demonstration he feels sure will force the council to admit
to the possibilities of science and allow previously banned fields of
research to once again flourish.

While mulling over the pleasant daydream Milo is roughly pushed aside
by a runaway human (Taylor) and nearly run down by the pursuing
mounted police. He witnesses Taylor's cry of "get your stinking paws
off me" and although shocked, his findings in the ship have at least
prepared him for the possibility of intelligent humans. (Although up
until now he didn't quite believe it) He puts two and two together and
makes a note to introduce himself to Dr. Zira at the earliest
possibility. He hopes that the talking human may be of enormous help
to him.

CHAPTER 6
Milo asks Darwin, an important, high ranking Chimpanzee for an
introduction to Zira. After a little Cat and Mouse by the suspicious
Darwin he is told Zira is currently unavailable due to her part in the
talking human controvosy. Darwin invites him to a meeting of a "local
debating society". where he assures Milo he will get the opportunity
to meet Cornelius, Zira's husband.

Milo attends the meeting and is surprised to discover a great many
other chimps, like himself who are frustrated by the Orangutans
refusal to allow science to advance. They call themselves "The sons of
Galen" in honour of a legendary Chimpanzee who, the stories say,
defied the powers that be and dedicated himself to the search for the
truth. (Fox Mulder of the Ape world) He meets fellow scientist
Cornelius (who has secrets of his own) The topic for the evening is
"Did man once ruled the earth" A notion that the Chimps are at least
happy to discuss. Some ancient artifacts are revealed (mostly by
Cornelius) supporting his theory that the Ape evolved from men. One
such artifact is an ancient crumbling book from the 20th century about
Science Fiction movies. One fading photograph from the movie "When
worlds collide" show a space ark upon the trestle type launch platform
that arcs up the side of a mountain. Milo is inspired by this picture
and thinks he has solved a small part of the problem of how to get the
spacecraft back into the air.

CHAPTER 7
Milo confides his secret to Darwin and Cornelius who agree that the
ship of which he speaks must be Taylor's. Cornelius is unable to
accompany Milo on another expedition due to Taylors imminent trial.
Darwin has too high a profile to be seen leaving the city

CHAPTER 8
Milo returns alone (without permission) to the site of the ship. He
spends many weeks/months in the Forbidden Zone studying the craft
(with the aid of an oracle like computer program.) The programmes and
electric's are mostly undamaged but most importantly, fully automated.
Much superficial water damage is cleaned up and the integrity of the
craft is returned to almost 100% However some vital components need
replacing... Components that have no counterparts in the 40th
century... Without them, the ship is useless.

CHAPTER 9
He returns again to Ape city to find that Ursus has now gained
popularity and is successfully pushing for an invasion of the
Forbidden Zone. Because of the volatile political climate Zaius
resources are stretched rather thinly and Milo is allowed to come and
go almost unnoticed. He calls another meeting of the "Sons of Galen"
and this time tells them everything. The chimps agree that Milo's plan
of a fly-over would certainly shake up and perhaps oust the Orangutans
from power and maybe enable the Chimps to take over and rule more
sensibly. Milo is confident that the craft would have flown again if
only it were not lacking the vital missing pieces. Cornelius
introduces Milo to Zira and they stun him by revealing another ship,
similar to Taylor's has recently crashed (Brents)

The "Sons of Galen" begin to organise a huge and risky undertaking.
Under the cover of the approaching war and while the Gorillas and
Orangutans are seemingly otherwise occupied a large workforce
comprised entirely of Chimps head out into the Zone to begin work on
the huge take off ramp that will be required. Meanwhile Milo,
Cornelius and Zira set out to locate Brents Ship and hopefully the
required spare parts.

The suspicious Zaius has the Chimps followed by Gorilla scouts/spies.
The spies witness the discovery of the second ship then follow the
three apes back to the location of the first. They are stunned at the
scale of the construction work taking place and gallop back to Ape
city to make their report.

CHAPTER 10 - 11
Zaius is not surprised to learn of Zira and Cornelius's part in the
heresy about to take place. Unable to attend to the matter himself due
to Ursus's imminent invasion of the Forbidden Zone, Zaius sends a
batallion of police to arrest the leaders of the heretical rebellion
and gives them orders to destroy the project.

A battalion of more than one hundred Policemen gallop into the
forbidden zone to obey the orders of zaius. Milo meanwhile has managed
to replace most of the damaged parts. Pack horses, levers and elbow
grease have lifted the spacecraft into position upon the ramp. In two
days Milo and a volunteer will attempt to fly the craft in a circuit
that will take them over the skies of Ape city and over the heads of
the advancing Gorrilla Army, led by Ursus... The Chimpanzees hope the
sight of a flying machine will not only halt the senseless war but be
the catalyst for bringing about a new era of peace.

Milo is confident the ship will fly but has little idea how to pilot
or land it safely. He is prepared for what he believes will be a
one-way trip and is resigned to becoming a martyr to the cause of
peace and free science. The most he can hope for is to crash once more
into the water.

CHAPTER 12
Dawn breaks on the final day on the Planet of the Apes. Elsewhere the
gorrila army have begaun to engage the mutants in the underground
remains of New York City.

By Lake Powell a huge cloud of dust announces the approach of the
battalion of Police sent by Zaius. The "Sons of Galen" caught unawares
scatter and the gorillas approach unopposed. Milo terrified that all
his dreams are about to be obliterated climbs into the spacecraft.
Cornelius and Zira try to stop him but the sound of bullets bouncing
off the hull causes them all to seek refuge inside the ship. The hatch
is closed, the apes buckle up.

The automated launch program is initiated. Gorillas arrive at the ship
and begin to pound upon the hull with rifle butts. The leader gives
the order to lay dynamite around the huge wooden platform that serves
as the runway.

The engines of the ship and the fuse of the dynamite ignite at about
the same time, as the ship successfully achieves take-off the roar of
the exploding launch pad is lost in the sound of a much larger
explosion from New York City.

The space craft breaks Earths orbit just as the planet explodes
sending a huge shockwave after it.

Epilogue:

Re-us

Back in (I think) Summer '99 there was an 8 part "Justice League of
America" storyline where everybody was turned into apes (Superman, Batman,
Aquaman, Wonder Woman, etc.) and each character's issue focused on that
superhero as an ape.It also had an ape city obviously inspired by POTA .
Etc. - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Melkor" <melkor@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 8:07 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: [RE: So, How was "Ape Nation"?


> > Well, "Apes" is now at Dark Horse, the home of the crossover. They're
the
> >folks that brought you "Alien vs. Predator" (which is Fox's next big
sci-fi
>
> The "Alien vs. Predator" idea comes from one of the Predator
> movies where the Predator spaceship contains an "Alien" trophy head.
>
>
> >epic. Don't know if their license includes the original "Apes" but I
> >wouldn't be surprised if they do "Zauis vs. Predator vs. Superman" and
> >dedicate it to Cougar. Etc. - - -
>
> There is a Superman graphic novel that has a bunch of intelligent apes
> but I haven't read it.
>
>
>
> > > > I never got around to getting these. Are they worth a look? For the
> > > > unintiated, it's an APES/Alien Nation crossover tale.
> > > > Gristle P.
>
> I have the first issue of Ape Nation but I never found the rest.
>
>
>

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: mlccougar@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 9:34 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] So, How was "Ape Nation"?

In a message dated 6/13/2002 3:29:53 PM Central Standard Time, alan@... writes:

But you only just admitted you never actually read it! Let's not start
this again.

Alan

Yes, I know I admitted I actually never actually read the thing. BUT, I can say it makes the two franchises look stupid because just the idea of it alone is bad. I mean an APE and a NEWCOMER in the same story?!?.... Not gonna make a good story, so that's why I said it, say it now, and will continue to say it.

<.html

Today the flick "The Bourne Identity" opens, the movie Matt Damon passed
on POTA for. Would POTA have been a better movie if Damon starred? Well, the
man IS an Oscar-winning screenwriter so maybe he could have given Burton
some tips (such as, "What is this sh*t? My grandma can write better 'n
this!").
And give me a break! Now it's said there's going to be a sequel to "Coyote
Ugly". And they can't get an "Apes" sequel going?
- - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff & Susan Stringer" <stringe@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 9:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Let's Try This:


> Here's their site, but no pics of the actual kit. Just the photo on the
> box, which is a still from the beach scene. There is however, a photo of
the
> Caesar. Or I could send you photos of mine.
> www.modelprisoners.com
> Gristle P.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <LordTZer0@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 7:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Let's Try This:
>
>
> > They also do a three-figure kit of Zira, Cornelius and Dr. Milo in their
> > space suits.
> >
> > Any pics of those? Anywho...I had the mask, and a costume made for a
> > Halloween party that's now well over 25 years old. Luckily my Mom's
> pretty
> > handy with a sewing machine. It still looks pretty good, but I had the
> > physic of a concentration camp prisoner back then so its not going to
fit
> > now. And all sorts of posters and lobby cards etc... As well as some
> > appliances. I did have one I did when I was a kid, but foam rubber
> doesn't
> > keep forever. I have a couple of models and Medicoms. The usual. But
a
> lot
> > was lost to garage sales in my late teens. The trash can, the game . .
.
> In
> > fact I'm not absolutely sure I didn't buy back my own model from a toy
> > collectors store a quater century later at five times the price!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Melkor

Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 6:44 PM

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Mexico in the TV series

 

Urko's wall map shows part of Baja California so the apes must have explored at
least part of northern Mexico.   Central City looks roughly between Phoenix and
San Diego so they are already close.  It actually looks like Urko's map has
scarecrows in the south -- apparently all of Mexico is the Forbidden Zone of
the TV series.   So maybe there are only humans in Mexico but the apes don't
want anyone to know.

Melkor (Morgoth)


> >"Melkor" <melkor@...> wrote:
>> I always wandered if Virden and Burke and gone far enough south,
>would
>> they have found Spanish speaking apes?  Or if humans had still ruled
>Mexico
>> wouldn't the apes be aware of it?  There could have been an
>interesting
>> episode.
>
>Suddenly I can't help picturing an all-musical episode with the
>fugitives and Urko all dancing about to the sounds of tijuana brass.
>
>I think I need help.
>
>Alan

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Melkor

Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 6:44 PM

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Mexico in the TV series

 

Urko's wall map shows part of Baja California so the apes must have explored at
least part of northern Mexico.   Central City looks roughly between Phoenix and
San Diego so they are already close.  It actually looks like Urko's map has
scarecrows in the south -- apparently all of Mexico is the Forbidden Zone of
the TV series.   So maybe there are only humans in Mexico but the apes don't
want anyone to know.

Melkor (Morgoth)


> >"Melkor" <melkor@...> wrote:
>> I always wandered if Virden and Burke and gone far enough south,
>would
>> they have found Spanish speaking apes?  Or if humans had still ruled
>Mexico
>> wouldn't the apes be aware of it?  There could have been an
>interesting
>> episode.
>
>Suddenly I can't help picturing an all-musical episode with the
>fugitives and Urko all dancing about to the sounds of tijuana brass.
>
>I think I need help.
>
>Alan

<.html

sounds very good. i have always wondered how they "found" the rocket
considering it sunk in the middle of the lake and how they got it
out. i always assumed brents ship's undamaged parts were used to
repair taylor's ship. why is taylor chased by the apes mounted police
(which i assume is what you implied). i got the feeling from beneath
and the end of planet that zaius wanted taylor left alone (more of a
good riddance) and taylor and nova wondered until the mirage fire and
mountain took him. speaking of which, what was the mirage mountain in
beneath. i understand it wasn't really there, but when it disappears
there is nothing there but flat land. how did taylor disappear in an
open space? but overall a good outline. i too started a apes story
before (though much different from this) and would be fun to get
together with someone and bang out a story. eddie

--- In pota@y..., "smugster2000" <4print@a...> wrote:
> A long time ago (But not so far away) I decided to try and write a
> stroy that filled in the 'gap' between Planet and Beneath - this
was
> before I realised I couldn't write for sh*t.
>
> I did the first chapter of what I called 'Milo's Tale' (which was
> published in a fanzine) and then abandoned it. Anyway, just for a
> giggle here my un-revised outline that's been sitting on my hard
drive
> for at least 9 years.
>
> CHAPTER 1
>
> Milo discovers Taylor's ship... his studies soon teach him about
the
> possibility of flight. At this stage Milo would love to get the
ship
> back into the air - not realising it is actually intended for
> interstellar space travel.
>
> CHAPTER 2 - 3
> He soon realises the spacecraft represents many sciences that the
High
> council have repressed or banned outright. He also knows he would
not
> be allowed to study the ship openly and fearing it's destruction
> before he has the chance to learn all it has to offer, he decides
to
> keep it a secret.
>
> CHAPTER 4
> Milo reluctantly returns to Ape city knowing that his continued
> absence would only raise unwelcome questions. - Suspicion rules -
his
> motives are questioned and his "souvenirs" confiscated. He appears
> before the High Council and is severely reprimanded for exceeding
his
> travel permit. After careful questioning he denies finding anything
of
> great interest but Zaius suspects he is lying. Especially when he
> shows Milo a US flag found among his belongings. Milo is rescued by
> Ursus who wrongfully concludes that the flag must belong to some
other
> Simian population who are beginning to invade and claim the Zone as
> their own. He begins his argument over the need to expand and
invade
> before this Ape City finds itself painted into a corner. We suspect
> Zaius knows Ursus is wrong but cannot confront him without raising
> more questions.
>
> CHAPTER 5
> Frustrated by the councils obvious aversion to the truth Milo
hatches
> a fantasy whereby he will fly the spacecraft over the skies of Ape
> city - a demonstration he feels sure will force the council to
admit
> to the possibilities of science and allow previously banned fields
of
> research to once again flourish.
>
> While mulling over the pleasant daydream Milo is roughly pushed
aside
> by a runaway human (Taylor) and nearly run down by the pursuing
> mounted police. He witnesses Taylor's cry of "get your stinking
paws
> off me" and although shocked, his findings in the ship have at
least
> prepared him for the possibility of intelligent humans. (Although
up
> until now he didn't quite believe it) He puts two and two together
and
> makes a note to introduce himself to Dr. Zira at the earliest
> possibility. He hopes that the talking human may be of enormous
help
> to him.
>
> CHAPTER 6
> Milo asks Darwin, an important, high ranking Chimpanzee for an
> introduction to Zira. After a little Cat and Mouse by the
suspicious
> Darwin he is told Zira is currently unavailable due to her part in
the
> talking human controvosy. Darwin invites him to a meeting of
a "local
> debating society". where he assures Milo he will get the
opportunity
> to meet Cornelius, Zira's husband.
>
> Milo attends the meeting and is surprised to discover a great many
> other chimps, like himself who are frustrated by the Orangutans
> refusal to allow science to advance. They call themselves "The sons
of
> Galen" in honour of a legendary Chimpanzee who, the stories say,
> defied the powers that be and dedicated himself to the search for
the
> truth. (Fox Mulder of the Ape world) He meets fellow scientist
> Cornelius (who has secrets of his own) The topic for the evening is
> "Did man once ruled the earth" A notion that the Chimps are at
least
> happy to discuss. Some ancient artifacts are revealed (mostly by
> Cornelius) supporting his theory that the Ape evolved from men. One
> such artifact is an ancient crumbling book from the 20th century
about
> Science Fiction movies. One fading photograph from the movie "When
> worlds collide" show a space ark upon the trestle type launch
platform
> that arcs up the side of a mountain. Milo is inspired by this
picture
> and thinks he has solved a small part of the problem of how to get
the
> spacecraft back into the air.
>
> CHAPTER 7
> Milo confides his secret to Darwin and Cornelius who agree that the
> ship of which he speaks must be Taylor's. Cornelius is unable to
> accompany Milo on another expedition due to Taylors imminent trial.
> Darwin has too high a profile to be seen leaving the city
>
> CHAPTER 8
> Milo returns alone (without permission) to the site of the ship. He
> spends many weeks/months in the Forbidden Zone studying the craft
> (with the aid of an oracle like computer program.) The programmes
and
> electric's are mostly undamaged but most importantly, fully
automated.
> Much superficial water damage is cleaned up and the integrity of
the
> craft is returned to almost 100% However some vital components
need
> replacing... Components that have no counterparts in the 40th
> century... Without them, the ship is useless.
>
> CHAPTER 9
> He returns again to Ape city to find that Ursus has now gained
> popularity and is successfully pushing for an invasion of the
> Forbidden Zone. Because of the volatile political climate Zaius
> resources are stretched rather thinly and Milo is allowed to come
and
> go almost unnoticed. He calls another meeting of the "Sons of
Galen"
> and this time tells them everything. The chimps agree that Milo's
plan
> of a fly-over would certainly shake up and perhaps oust the
Orangutans
> from power and maybe enable the Chimps to take over and rule more
> sensibly. Milo is confident that the craft would have flown again
if
> only it were not lacking the vital missing pieces. Cornelius
> introduces Milo to Zira and they stun him by revealing another
ship,
> similar to Taylor's has recently crashed (Brents)
>
> The "Sons of Galen" begin to organise a huge and risky undertaking.
> Under the cover of the approaching war and while the Gorillas and
> Orangutans are seemingly otherwise occupied a large workforce
> comprised entirely of Chimps head out into the Zone to begin work
on
> the huge take off ramp that will be required. Meanwhile Milo,
> Cornelius and Zira set out to locate Brents Ship and hopefully the
> required spare parts.
>
> The suspicious Zaius has the Chimps followed by Gorilla
scouts/spies.
> The spies witness the discovery of the second ship then follow the
> three apes back to the location of the first. They are stunned at
the
> scale of the construction work taking place and gallop back to Ape
> city to make their report.
>
> CHAPTER 10 - 11
> Zaius is not surprised to learn of Zira and Cornelius's part in the
> heresy about to take place. Unable to attend to the matter himself
due
> to Ursus's imminent invasion of the Forbidden Zone, Zaius sends a
> batallion of police to arrest the leaders of the heretical
rebellion
> and gives them orders to destroy the project.
>
> A battalion of more than one hundred Policemen gallop into the
> forbidden zone to obey the orders of zaius. Milo meanwhile has
managed
> to replace most of the damaged parts. Pack horses, levers and elbow
> grease have lifted the spacecraft into position upon the ramp. In
two
> days Milo and a volunteer will attempt to fly the craft in a
circuit
> that will take them over the skies of Ape city and over the heads
of
> the advancing Gorrilla Army, led by Ursus... The Chimpanzees hope
the
> sight of a flying machine will not only halt the senseless war but
be
> the catalyst for bringing about a new era of peace.
>
> Milo is confident the ship will fly but has little idea how to
pilot
> or land it safely. He is prepared for what he believes will be a
> one-way trip and is resigned to becoming a martyr to the cause of
> peace and free science. The most he can hope for is to crash once
more
> into the water.
>
> CHAPTER 12
> Dawn breaks on the final day on the Planet of the Apes. Elsewhere
the
> gorrila army have begaun to engage the mutants in the underground
> remains of New York City.
>
> By Lake Powell a huge cloud of dust announces the approach of the
> battalion of Police sent by Zaius. The "Sons of Galen" caught
unawares
> scatter and the gorillas approach unopposed. Milo terrified that
all
> his dreams are about to be obliterated climbs into the spacecraft.
> Cornelius and Zira try to stop him but the sound of bullets
bouncing
> off the hull causes them all to seek refuge inside the ship. The
hatch
> is closed, the apes buckle up.
>
> The automated launch program is initiated. Gorillas arrive at the
ship
> and begin to pound upon the hull with rifle butts. The leader gives
> the order to lay dynamite around the huge wooden platform that
serves
> as the runway.
>
> The engines of the ship and the fuse of the dynamite ignite at
about
> the same time, as the ship successfully achieves take-off the roar
of
> the exploding launch pad is lost in the sound of a much larger
> explosion from New York City.
>
> The space craft breaks Earths orbit just as the planet explodes
> sending a huge shockwave after it.
>
> Epilogue:
>
> Re-us

You're assuming that the mountain was a mirage and that the land was
actually flat. I believe both images were projected to hide an entrance
to the underground passageways.

While we're on the subject I'd like to say that the mutants could easily
have eliminated the entire ape army if they'd used their mental powers
to hide an existing cliff and lure the apes over it instead of
projecting impossible illusions in a physically safe area.

Also, I was bothered by the huge rolling boulder in Planet until I saw
Beneath. Although I've never heard anyone mention it and it almost
certainly isn't true, I deduced that someone involved in Planet already
had the idea of psychic mutants who protected their city with annoying,
but non-lethal, illusions and wanted to lay a little groundwork for
their eventual appearance. I no longer believe that, but I think it's
possible that Dehn was also bothered by the self-starting rock and
wanted to "unflub" a mistake made by his predecessors.

ABMAC

On Friday, June 14, 2002, at 10:17 AM, epowe_2000 wrote:

> speaking of which, what was the mirage mountain in
> beneath. i understand it wasn't really there, but when it disappears
> there is nothing there but flat land. how did taylor disappear in an
> open space?

It could use some refining, but like that. Especially the bit about
salvaging parts from one ship for the other. Still doesn't say HOW Milo
found Taylors's SUNKEN ship, but anyway. But you're one up on us. You've
been PUBLISHED...! :)
Gristle P.

----- Original Message -----
From: "smugster2000" <4print@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 6:21 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Story between Planet and Beneath


> A long time ago (But not so far away) I decided to try and write a
> stroy that filled in the 'gap' between Planet and Beneath - this was
> before I realised I couldn't write for sh*t.
>
> I did the first chapter of what I called 'Milo's Tale' (which was
> published in a fanzine) and then abandoned it. Anyway, just for a
> giggle here my un-revised outline that's been sitting on my hard drive
> for at least 9 years.
>
> CHAPTER 1
>
> Milo discovers Taylor's ship... his studies soon teach him about the
> possibility of flight. At this stage Milo would love to get the ship
> back into the air - not realising it is actually intended for
> interstellar space travel.
>
> CHAPTER 2 - 3
> He soon realises the spacecraft represents many sciences that the High
> council have repressed or banned outright. He also knows he would not
> be allowed to study the ship openly and fearing it's destruction
> before he has the chance to learn all it has to offer, he decides to
> keep it a secret.
>
> CHAPTER 4
> Milo reluctantly returns to Ape city knowing that his continued
> absence would only raise unwelcome questions. - Suspicion rules - his
> motives are questioned and his "souvenirs" confiscated. He appears
> before the High Council and is severely reprimanded for exceeding his
> travel permit. After careful questioning he denies finding anything of
> great interest but Zaius suspects he is lying. Especially when he
> shows Milo a US flag found among his belongings. Milo is rescued by
> Ursus who wrongfully concludes that the flag must belong to some other
> Simian population who are beginning to invade and claim the Zone as
> their own. He begins his argument over the need to expand and invade
> before this Ape City finds itself painted into a corner. We suspect
> Zaius knows Ursus is wrong but cannot confront him without raising
> more questions.
>
> CHAPTER 5
> Frustrated by the councils obvious aversion to the truth Milo hatches
> a fantasy whereby he will fly the spacecraft over the skies of Ape
> city - a demonstration he feels sure will force the council to admit
> to the possibilities of science and allow previously banned fields of
> research to once again flourish.
>
> While mulling over the pleasant daydream Milo is roughly pushed aside
> by a runaway human (Taylor) and nearly run down by the pursuing
> mounted police. He witnesses Taylor's cry of "get your stinking paws
> off me" and although shocked, his findings in the ship have at least
> prepared him for the possibility of intelligent humans. (Although up
> until now he didn't quite believe it) He puts two and two together and
> makes a note to introduce himself to Dr. Zira at the earliest
> possibility. He hopes that the talking human may be of enormous help
> to him.
>
> CHAPTER 6
> Milo asks Darwin, an important, high ranking Chimpanzee for an
> introduction to Zira. After a little Cat and Mouse by the suspicious
> Darwin he is told Zira is currently unavailable due to her part in the
> talking human controvosy. Darwin invites him to a meeting of a "local
> debating society". where he assures Milo he will get the opportunity
> to meet Cornelius, Zira's husband.
>
> Milo attends the meeting and is surprised to discover a great many
> other chimps, like himself who are frustrated by the Orangutans
> refusal to allow science to advance. They call themselves "The sons of
> Galen" in honour of a legendary Chimpanzee who, the stories say,
> defied the powers that be and dedicated himself to the search for the
> truth. (Fox Mulder of the Ape world) He meets fellow scientist
> Cornelius (who has secrets of his own) The topic for the evening is
> "Did man once ruled the earth" A notion that the Chimps are at least
> happy to discuss. Some ancient artifacts are revealed (mostly by
> Cornelius) supporting his theory that the Ape evolved from men. One
> such artifact is an ancient crumbling book from the 20th century about
> Science Fiction movies. One fading photograph from the movie "When
> worlds collide" show a space ark upon the trestle type launch platform
> that arcs up the side of a mountain. Milo is inspired by this picture
> and thinks he has solved a small part of the problem of how to get the
> spacecraft back into the air.
>
> CHAPTER 7
> Milo confides his secret to Darwin and Cornelius who agree that the
> ship of which he speaks must be Taylor's. Cornelius is unable to
> accompany Milo on another expedition due to Taylors imminent trial.
> Darwin has too high a profile to be seen leaving the city
>
> CHAPTER 8
> Milo returns alone (without permission) to the site of the ship. He
> spends many weeks/months in the Forbidden Zone studying the craft
> (with the aid of an oracle like computer program.) The programmes and
> electric's are mostly undamaged but most importantly, fully automated.
> Much superficial water damage is cleaned up and the integrity of the
> craft is returned to almost 100% However some vital components need
> replacing... Components that have no counterparts in the 40th
> century... Without them, the ship is useless.
>
> CHAPTER 9
> He returns again to Ape city to find that Ursus has now gained
> popularity and is successfully pushing for an invasion of the
> Forbidden Zone. Because of the volatile political climate Zaius
> resources are stretched rather thinly and Milo is allowed to come and
> go almost unnoticed. He calls another meeting of the "Sons of Galen"
> and this time tells them everything. The chimps agree that Milo's plan
> of a fly-over would certainly shake up and perhaps oust the Orangutans
> from power and maybe enable the Chimps to take over and rule more
> sensibly. Milo is confident that the craft would have flown again if
> only it were not lacking the vital missing pieces. Cornelius
> introduces Milo to Zira and they stun him by revealing another ship,
> similar to Taylor's has recently crashed (Brents)
>
> The "Sons of Galen" begin to organise a huge and risky undertaking.
> Under the cover of the approaching war and while the Gorillas and
> Orangutans are seemingly otherwise occupied a large workforce
> comprised entirely of Chimps head out into the Zone to begin work on
> the huge take off ramp that will be required. Meanwhile Milo,
> Cornelius and Zira set out to locate Brents Ship and hopefully the
> required spare parts.
>
> The suspicious Zaius has the Chimps followed by Gorilla scouts/spies.
> The spies witness the discovery of the second ship then follow the
> three apes back to the location of the first. They are stunned at the
> scale of the construction work taking place and gallop back to Ape
> city to make their report.
>
> CHAPTER 10 - 11
> Zaius is not surprised to learn of Zira and Cornelius's part in the
> heresy about to take place. Unable to attend to the matter himself due
> to Ursus's imminent invasion of the Forbidden Zone, Zaius sends a
> batallion of police to arrest the leaders of the heretical rebellion
> and gives them orders to destroy the project.
>
> A battalion of more than one hundred Policemen gallop into the
> forbidden zone to obey the orders of zaius. Milo meanwhile has managed
> to replace most of the damaged parts. Pack horses, levers and elbow
> grease have lifted the spacecraft into position upon the ramp. In two
> days Milo and a volunteer will attempt to fly the craft in a circuit
> that will take them over the skies of Ape city and over the heads of
> the advancing Gorrilla Army, led by Ursus... The Chimpanzees hope the
> sight of a flying machine will not only halt the senseless war but be
> the catalyst for bringing about a new era of peace.
>
> Milo is confident the ship will fly but has little idea how to pilot
> or land it safely. He is prepared for what he believes will be a
> one-way trip and is resigned to becoming a martyr to the cause of
> peace and free science. The most he can hope for is to crash once more
> into the water.
>
> CHAPTER 12
> Dawn breaks on the final day on the Planet of the Apes. Elsewhere the
> gorrila army have begaun to engage the mutants in the underground
> remains of New York City.
>
> By Lake Powell a huge cloud of dust announces the approach of the
> battalion of Police sent by Zaius. The "Sons of Galen" caught unawares
> scatter and the gorillas approach unopposed. Milo terrified that all
> his dreams are about to be obliterated climbs into the spacecraft.
> Cornelius and Zira try to stop him but the sound of bullets bouncing
> off the hull causes them all to seek refuge inside the ship. The hatch
> is closed, the apes buckle up.
>
> The automated launch program is initiated. Gorillas arrive at the ship
> and begin to pound upon the hull with rifle butts. The leader gives
> the order to lay dynamite around the huge wooden platform that serves
> as the runway.
>
> The engines of the ship and the fuse of the dynamite ignite at about
> the same time, as the ship successfully achieves take-off the roar of
> the exploding launch pad is lost in the sound of a much larger
> explosion from New York City.
>
> The space craft breaks Earths orbit just as the planet explodes
> sending a huge shockwave after it.
>
> Epilogue:
>
> Re-us
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html
No I wouldn't add anything that doesn't tie directly to the originals.  Though I'm warming to the idea of the miniseries.  You could actually show the originals in between the episodes!


The first episode could be Zira and Corn meeting at the Academy.  A

sort of love story, but we need to add an interesting idea (eg
rivalry: a jealous rival plots to murder Cornelius - or something
that explores the whole "ape shall never kill ape" thing -

<.html

.html

How does Milo get permission to spend so much time in the forbidden zone?

Knowing Milo he didn't ask.

<.html

I have a lot of respect for Damon as a writer and as an actor. Good Will
Hunting was superb and original.

I read "The Bourne Identity" when I was about 17, and it took me one
sleepless night to read it. I could not put it down. Robert Ludlum was a
great yarn spinner in my humble opinion.

I hated "Coyote Ugly" (other than the obvious hetrosexual male incentives,
who just had too many clothes on for my liking), but I would still watch it,
or an inferior sequel, before I watch POTA 2001 again. That's really saying
something.

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: veetus@... [veetus@...]
> Sent: Friday, 14 June 2002 21:37
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] "Bourne" Yesterday
>
>
> Today the flick "The Bourne Identity" opens, the movie Matt Damon passed
> on POTA for. Would POTA have been a better movie if Damon
> starred? Well, the
> man IS an Oscar-winning screenwriter so maybe he could have given Burton
> some tips (such as, "What is this sh*t? My grandma can write better 'n
> this!").
> And give me a break! Now it's said there's going to be a sequel
> to "Coyote
> Ugly". And they can't get an "Apes" sequel going?
> - - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff & Susan Stringer" <stringe@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 9:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Let's Try This:
>
>
> > Here's their site, but no pics of the actual kit. Just the
> photo on the
> > box, which is a still from the beach scene. There is however, a photo of
> the
> > Caesar. Or I could send you photos of mine.
> > www.modelprisoners.com
> > Gristle P.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <LordTZer0@...>
> > To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 7:20 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Let's Try This:
> >
> >
> > > They also do a three-figure kit of Zira, Cornelius and Dr.
> Milo in their
> > > space suits.
> > >
> > > Any pics of those? Anywho...I had the mask, and a costume made for a
> > > Halloween party that's now well over 25 years old. Luckily my Mom's
> > pretty
> > > handy with a sewing machine. It still looks pretty good, but
> I had the
> > > physic of a concentration camp prisoner back then so its not going to
> fit
> > > now. And all sorts of posters and lobby cards etc... As well as some
> > > appliances. I did have one I did when I was a kid, but foam rubber
> > doesn't
> > > keep forever. I have a couple of models and Medicoms. The
> usual. But
> a
> > lot
> > > was lost to garage sales in my late teens. The trash can,
> the game . .
> .
> > In
> > > fact I'm not absolutely sure I didn't buy back my own model from a toy
> > > collectors store a quater century later at five times the price!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Well why don't we?

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: epowe_2000 [epowe10097@...]
> Sent: Saturday, 15 June 2002 1:18

would be fun to get together with someone and bang out a story. eddie

What about the concept of another ape society, from another ape city, that
is more teshnologically advanced and uses boats/deep sea diving equipment?
Maybe even radar equipment, though this could be a real stretch.

They could chance upon floating rubble and dive/explore. While I can't see
them retrieving this ship, they could retrieve things from it (eg flight
path simulator, and say a disc similar to the one Burke and Virdon retrieved
in the TV Series). They could then then insert the disc into Brent's ship
to reveal the location of the space station where the ship was SUPPOSED to
land. This could lead to finding a nice, fresh ship/s at/near the space
station that are kept in an environment where the effects of aging do not
effect the ship too much (hence explaining the difference in design of the
ship used to "Escape from the Planet of the Apes"). Inserting the disc into
this craft brings up systems and because the disc is from Taylor's ship, the
new ship assumes the same identity/flight path programme etc (hence
explaining the "it's Taylor's ship" statement in "Escape").

To explain the quick timing between Taylor's crash land and the destruction
of earth being enough time for a technologically challenged race to get a
ship in the air, maybe Dr Milo has already uncovered the ship (the new ape
tribe find him camped in the building after he has been studying the complex
and its contents for years), but the disc is the key that was needed to
power up the ship. Dr Milo contacts his friends Corn and Zira and while
attempting a test flight they discover they are unable to control the ship
but the disc has set them on to auto pilot and the rest is written
("Escape").

I just knocked this out as I typed it, so are there any obvious flubs here?

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff & Susan Stringer [stringe@...]
> Sent: Saturday, 15 June 2002 3:23
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Story between Planet and Beneath
>
>
> It could use some refining, but like that. Especially the bit about
> salvaging parts from one ship for the other. Still doesn't say HOW Milo
> found Taylors's SUNKEN ship, but anyway. But you're one up on us. You've
> been PUBLISHED...! :)
> Gristle P.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "smugster2000" <4print@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 6:21 AM
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Story between Planet and Beneath
>
>
> > A long time ago (But not so far away) I decided to try and write a
> > stroy that filled in the 'gap' between Planet and Beneath - this was
> > before I realised I couldn't write for sh*t.
> >
> > I did the first chapter of what I called 'Milo's Tale' (which was
> > published in a fanzine) and then abandoned it. Anyway, just for a
> > giggle here my un-revised outline that's been sitting on my hard drive
> > for at least 9 years.
> >
> > CHAPTER 1
> >
> > Milo discovers Taylor's ship... his studies soon teach him about the
> > possibility of flight. At this stage Milo would love to get the ship
> > back into the air - not realising it is actually intended for
> > interstellar space travel.
> >
> > CHAPTER 2 - 3
> > He soon realises the spacecraft represents many sciences that the High
> > council have repressed or banned outright. He also knows he would not
> > be allowed to study the ship openly and fearing it's destruction
> > before he has the chance to learn all it has to offer, he decides to
> > keep it a secret.
> >
> > CHAPTER 4
> > Milo reluctantly returns to Ape city knowing that his continued
> > absence would only raise unwelcome questions. - Suspicion rules - his
> > motives are questioned and his "souvenirs" confiscated. He appears
> > before the High Council and is severely reprimanded for exceeding his
> > travel permit. After careful questioning he denies finding anything of
> > great interest but Zaius suspects he is lying. Especially when he
> > shows Milo a US flag found among his belongings. Milo is rescued by
> > Ursus who wrongfully concludes that the flag must belong to some other
> > Simian population who are beginning to invade and claim the Zone as
> > their own. He begins his argument over the need to expand and invade
> > before this Ape City finds itself painted into a corner. We suspect
> > Zaius knows Ursus is wrong but cannot confront him without raising
> > more questions.
> >
> > CHAPTER 5
> > Frustrated by the councils obvious aversion to the truth Milo hatches
> > a fantasy whereby he will fly the spacecraft over the skies of Ape
> > city - a demonstration he feels sure will force the council to admit
> > to the possibilities of science and allow previously banned fields of
> > research to once again flourish.
> >
> > While mulling over the pleasant daydream Milo is roughly pushed aside
> > by a runaway human (Taylor) and nearly run down by the pursuing
> > mounted police. He witnesses Taylor's cry of "get your stinking paws
> > off me" and although shocked, his findings in the ship have at least
> > prepared him for the possibility of intelligent humans. (Although up
> > until now he didn't quite believe it) He puts two and two together and
> > makes a note to introduce himself to Dr. Zira at the earliest
> > possibility. He hopes that the talking human may be of enormous help
> > to him.
> >
> > CHAPTER 6
> > Milo asks Darwin, an important, high ranking Chimpanzee for an
> > introduction to Zira. After a little Cat and Mouse by the suspicious
> > Darwin he is told Zira is currently unavailable due to her part in the
> > talking human controvosy. Darwin invites him to a meeting of a "local
> > debating society". where he assures Milo he will get the opportunity
> > to meet Cornelius, Zira's husband.
> >
> > Milo attends the meeting and is surprised to discover a great many
> > other chimps, like himself who are frustrated by the Orangutans
> > refusal to allow science to advance. They call themselves "The sons of
> > Galen" in honour of a legendary Chimpanzee who, the stories say,
> > defied the powers that be and dedicated himself to the search for the
> > truth. (Fox Mulder of the Ape world) He meets fellow scientist
> > Cornelius (who has secrets of his own) The topic for the evening is
> > "Did man once ruled the earth" A notion that the Chimps are at least
> > happy to discuss. Some ancient artifacts are revealed (mostly by
> > Cornelius) supporting his theory that the Ape evolved from men. One
> > such artifact is an ancient crumbling book from the 20th century about
> > Science Fiction movies. One fading photograph from the movie "When
> > worlds collide" show a space ark upon the trestle type launch platform
> > that arcs up the side of a mountain. Milo is inspired by this picture
> > and thinks he has solved a small part of the problem of how to get the
> > spacecraft back into the air.
> >
> > CHAPTER 7
> > Milo confides his secret to Darwin and Cornelius who agree that the
> > ship of which he speaks must be Taylor's. Cornelius is unable to
> > accompany Milo on another expedition due to Taylors imminent trial.
> > Darwin has too high a profile to be seen leaving the city
> >
> > CHAPTER 8
> > Milo returns alone (without permission) to the site of the ship. He
> > spends many weeks/months in the Forbidden Zone studying the craft
> > (with the aid of an oracle like computer program.) The programmes and
> > electric's are mostly undamaged but most importantly, fully automated.
> > Much superficial water damage is cleaned up and the integrity of the
> > craft is returned to almost 100% However some vital components need
> > replacing... Components that have no counterparts in the 40th
> > century... Without them, the ship is useless.
> >
> > CHAPTER 9
> > He returns again to Ape city to find that Ursus has now gained
> > popularity and is successfully pushing for an invasion of the
> > Forbidden Zone. Because of the volatile political climate Zaius
> > resources are stretched rather thinly and Milo is allowed to come and
> > go almost unnoticed. He calls another meeting of the "Sons of Galen"
> > and this time tells them everything. The chimps agree that Milo's plan
> > of a fly-over would certainly shake up and perhaps oust the Orangutans
> > from power and maybe enable the Chimps to take over and rule more
> > sensibly. Milo is confident that the craft would have flown again if
> > only it were not lacking the vital missing pieces. Cornelius
> > introduces Milo to Zira and they stun him by revealing another ship,
> > similar to Taylor's has recently crashed (Brents)
> >
> > The "Sons of Galen" begin to organise a huge and risky undertaking.
> > Under the cover of the approaching war and while the Gorillas and
> > Orangutans are seemingly otherwise occupied a large workforce
> > comprised entirely of Chimps head out into the Zone to begin work on
> > the huge take off ramp that will be required. Meanwhile Milo,
> > Cornelius and Zira set out to locate Brents Ship and hopefully the
> > required spare parts.
> >
> > The suspicious Zaius has the Chimps followed by Gorilla scouts/spies.
> > The spies witness the discovery of the second ship then follow the
> > three apes back to the location of the first. They are stunned at the
> > scale of the construction work taking place and gallop back to Ape
> > city to make their report.
> >
> > CHAPTER 10 - 11
> > Zaius is not surprised to learn of Zira and Cornelius's part in the
> > heresy about to take place. Unable to attend to the matter himself due
> > to Ursus's imminent invasion of the Forbidden Zone, Zaius sends a
> > batallion of police to arrest the leaders of the heretical rebellion
> > and gives them orders to destroy the project.
> >
> > A battalion of more than one hundred Policemen gallop into the
> > forbidden zone to obey the orders of zaius. Milo meanwhile has managed
> > to replace most of the damaged parts. Pack horses, levers and elbow
> > grease have lifted the spacecraft into position upon the ramp. In two
> > days Milo and a volunteer will attempt to fly the craft in a circuit
> > that will take them over the skies of Ape city and over the heads of
> > the advancing Gorrilla Army, led by Ursus... The Chimpanzees hope the
> > sight of a flying machine will not only halt the senseless war but be
> > the catalyst for bringing about a new era of peace.
> >
> > Milo is confident the ship will fly but has little idea how to pilot
> > or land it safely. He is prepared for what he believes will be a
> > one-way trip and is resigned to becoming a martyr to the cause of
> > peace and free science. The most he can hope for is to crash once more
> > into the water.
> >
> > CHAPTER 12
> > Dawn breaks on the final day on the Planet of the Apes. Elsewhere the
> > gorrila army have begaun to engage the mutants in the underground
> > remains of New York City.
> >
> > By Lake Powell a huge cloud of dust announces the approach of the
> > battalion of Police sent by Zaius. The "Sons of Galen" caught unawares
> > scatter and the gorillas approach unopposed. Milo terrified that all
> > his dreams are about to be obliterated climbs into the spacecraft.
> > Cornelius and Zira try to stop him but the sound of bullets bouncing
> > off the hull causes them all to seek refuge inside the ship. The hatch
> > is closed, the apes buckle up.
> >
> > The automated launch program is initiated. Gorillas arrive at the ship
> > and begin to pound upon the hull with rifle butts. The leader gives
> > the order to lay dynamite around the huge wooden platform that serves
> > as the runway.
> >
> > The engines of the ship and the fuse of the dynamite ignite at about
> > the same time, as the ship successfully achieves take-off the roar of
> > the exploding launch pad is lost in the sound of a much larger
> > explosion from New York City.
> >
> > The space craft breaks Earths orbit just as the planet explodes
> > sending a huge shockwave after it.
> >
> > Epilogue:
> >
> > Re-us
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

>
>

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: LordTZer0@... [LordTZer0@...]
Sent: Saturday, 15 June 2002 3:42
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] What would you do?

No I wouldn't add anything that doesn't tie directly to the originals.  Though I'm warming to the idea of the miniseries.  You could actually show the originals in between the episodes!


The first episode could be Zira and Corn meeting at the Academy.  A

sort of love story, but we need to add an interesting idea (eg
rivalry: a jealous rival plots to murder Cornelius - or something
that explores the whole "ape shall never kill ape" thing -

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: LordTZer0@... [LordTZer0@...]
Sent: Saturday, 15 June 2002 3:46
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] What would you do

How does Milo get permission to spend so much time in the forbidden zone?

Knowing Milo he didn't ask.

<.html

The mutants insist they don't kill their enemies. I guess scaring them is
as far as they go (which didn't work). The rolling rock must be an example
of raw nature or maybe just some action thrown in so the execs wouldn't be
so nervous of all that screen time walking ( I can't see that moment without
thinking of "Raiders of the Lost Ark"). I'm sure the astros wouls have
preferred sharing a Rolling Rock rather than running from one.
- - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony B. McElveen" <abmac@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Story between Planet and Beneath


> You're assuming that the mountain was a mirage and that the land was
> actually flat. I believe both images were projected to hide an entrance
> to the underground passageways.
>
> While we're on the subject I'd like to say that the mutants could easily
> have eliminated the entire ape army if they'd used their mental powers
> to hide an existing cliff and lure the apes over it instead of
> projecting impossible illusions in a physically safe area.
>
> Also, I was bothered by the huge rolling boulder in Planet until I saw
> Beneath. Although I've never heard anyone mention it and it almost
> certainly isn't true, I deduced that someone involved in Planet already
> had the idea of psychic mutants who protected their city with annoying,
> but non-lethal, illusions and wanted to lay a little groundwork for
> their eventual appearance. I no longer believe that, but I think it's
> possible that Dehn was also bothered by the self-starting rock and
> wanted to "unflub" a mistake made by his predecessors.
>
> ABMAC
>
> On Friday, June 14, 2002, at 10:17 AM, epowe_2000 wrote:
>
> > speaking of which, what was the mirage mountain in
> > beneath. i understand it wasn't really there, but when it disappears
> > there is nothing there but flat land. how did taylor disappear in an
> > open space?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.htmlHey, I read your story of Milo, and actually found it pretty good. It has the elements that make it "Ape", and it sure as hell beats what was in the 70's magazine as far as their original stuff. Your story was written better than a lot of things I've read as far as moving the plot along goes, and you said you can't write worth a sh*t... Well, I'd say your idea was good enough that you, or someone else should maybe write this plot of your's into a full blown story. I liked it.

The only thing, I always kind of thought in my mind that Cornelius and Zira knew Milo for some time, like maybe Cornelius went to school with him or something of that nature. And also in my mind, I always kinda thought that Milo came upon his knowledge of the ship from conversations with those "heretic" friends of his. I was under the impression that Cornelius/Zira told him of what Taylor said, things like the location of the crash, etc.. and then Milo went about to see if this was true... But that was in my mind, I don't know what others think, but your ideas pretty much "work" for me. I think I'd "maybe" only change that part of it. I'd maybe change it to Milo's discovering of the ship after having discussions with his friends "discovered" this curious talking human... But the rest of your story is as good as most other "original" I'm sure... And, by the way, I like the part of them salvaging parts from the wreckage of Brent's ship, that was a good addition...<.html

1.) It seems the Mutants have access to higher levels of
technology. I'm wondering if there isn't a way that the Mutants may
have resurrected Taylor's ship -- maybe thinking it was a "bomb" --
and in some way either knowingly or unknowingly helped Dr. Milo.

2.) A technologically advanced society of Apes seems logical to me,
but the existance of another community of Apes would have to be
firmly and credibly established. There is a treasure trove of
accessible information left for eons by the advanced human
civilizations. Even if all the Apes can do is "ape" what humans have
done, there are materials and information available. It's certainly
possible.

3.) I think a third ship could be key to the puzzle, though. Much
like the third pod idea in POTA 2001 (wash my mouth with soap). The
chip idea works. (Maybe the dog tags have the information in an
embedded chip, and you don't need to go underwater at all. Maybe
they find a discarded ship from the ANSA program -- in working order -
- and use that one.)

Someone would have to put it all together, though, and have it make
sense. Still sounds a bit contrived. And I am sure this is FULL of
holes.

I would certainly like to know more about Dr. Milo.

-- Helen

--- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> What about the concept of another ape society, from another ape
city, that
> is more teshnologically advanced and uses boats/deep sea diving
equipment?
> Maybe even radar equipment, though this could be a real stretch.
>
> They could chance upon floating rubble and dive/explore. While I
can't see
> them retrieving this ship, they could retrieve things from it (eg
flight
> path simulator, and say a disc similar to the one Burke and Virdon
retrieved
> in the TV Series). They could then then insert the disc into
Brent's ship
> to reveal the location of the space station where the ship was
SUPPOSED to
> land. This could lead to finding a nice, fresh ship/s at/near the
space
> station that are kept in an environment where the effects of aging
do not
> effect the ship too much (hence explaining the difference in design
of the
> ship used to "Escape from the Planet of the Apes"). Inserting the
disc into
> this craft brings up systems and because the disc is from Taylor's
ship, the
> new ship assumes the same identity/flight path programme etc (hence
> explaining the "it's Taylor's ship" statement in "Escape").
>
> To explain the quick timing between Taylor's crash land and the
destruction
> of earth being enough time for a technologically challenged race to
get a
> ship in the air, maybe Dr Milo has already uncovered the ship (the
new ape
> tribe find him camped in the building after he has been studying
the complex
> and its contents for years), but the disc is the key that was
needed to
> power up the ship. Dr Milo contacts his friends Corn and Zira and
while
> attempting a test flight they discover they are unable to control
the ship
> but the disc has set them on to auto pilot and the rest is written
> ("Escape").
>
> I just knocked this out as I typed it, so are there any obvious
flubs here?
>
> Michael
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jeff & Susan Stringer [stringe@b...]
> > Sent: Saturday, 15 June 2002 3:23
> > To: pota@y...
> > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Story between Planet and
Beneath
> >
> >
> > It could use some refining, but like that. Especially the bit
about
> > salvaging parts from one ship for the other. Still doesn't say
HOW Milo
> > found Taylors's SUNKEN ship, but anyway. But you're one up on us.
You've
> > been PUBLISHED...! :)
> > Gristle P.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "smugster2000" <4print@a...>
> > To: <pota@y...>
> > Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 6:21 AM
> > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Story between Planet and Beneath
> >
> >
> > > A long time ago (But not so far away) I decided to try and
write a
> > > stroy that filled in the 'gap' between Planet and Beneath -
this was
> > > before I realised I couldn't write for sh*t.
> > >
> > > I did the first chapter of what I called 'Milo's Tale' (which
was
> > > published in a fanzine) and then abandoned it. Anyway, just for
a
> > > giggle here my un-revised outline that's been sitting on my
hard drive
> > > for at least 9 years.
> > >
> > > CHAPTER 1
> > >
> > > Milo discovers Taylor's ship... his studies soon teach him
about the
> > > possibility of flight. At this stage Milo would love to get the
ship
> > > back into the air - not realising it is actually intended for
> > > interstellar space travel.
> > >
> > > CHAPTER 2 - 3
> > > He soon realises the spacecraft represents many sciences that
the High
> > > council have repressed or banned outright. He also knows he
would not
> > > be allowed to study the ship openly and fearing it's destruction
> > > before he has the chance to learn all it has to offer, he
decides to
> > > keep it a secret.
> > >
> > > CHAPTER 4
> > > Milo reluctantly returns to Ape city knowing that his continued
> > > absence would only raise unwelcome questions. - Suspicion
rules - his
> > > motives are questioned and his "souvenirs" confiscated. He
appears
> > > before the High Council and is severely reprimanded for
exceeding his
> > > travel permit. After careful questioning he denies finding
anything of
> > > great interest but Zaius suspects he is lying. Especially when
he
> > > shows Milo a US flag found among his belongings. Milo is
rescued by
> > > Ursus who wrongfully concludes that the flag must belong to
some other
> > > Simian population who are beginning to invade and claim the
Zone as
> > > their own. He begins his argument over the need to expand and
invade
> > > before this Ape City finds itself painted into a corner. We
suspect
> > > Zaius knows Ursus is wrong but cannot confront him without
raising
> > > more questions.
> > >
> > > CHAPTER 5
> > > Frustrated by the councils obvious aversion to the truth Milo
hatches
> > > a fantasy whereby he will fly the spacecraft over the skies of
Ape
> > > city - a demonstration he feels sure will force the council to
admit
> > > to the possibilities of science and allow previously banned
fields of
> > > research to once again flourish.
> > >
> > > While mulling over the pleasant daydream Milo is roughly pushed
aside
> > > by a runaway human (Taylor) and nearly run down by the pursuing
> > > mounted police. He witnesses Taylor's cry of "get your stinking
paws
> > > off me" and although shocked, his findings in the ship have at
least
> > > prepared him for the possibility of intelligent humans.
(Although up
> > > until now he didn't quite believe it) He puts two and two
together and
> > > makes a note to introduce himself to Dr. Zira at the earliest
> > > possibility. He hopes that the talking human may be of enormous
help
> > > to him.
> > >
> > > CHAPTER 6
> > > Milo asks Darwin, an important, high ranking Chimpanzee for an
> > > introduction to Zira. After a little Cat and Mouse by the
suspicious
> > > Darwin he is told Zira is currently unavailable due to her part
in the
> > > talking human controvosy. Darwin invites him to a meeting of
a "local
> > > debating society". where he assures Milo he will get the
opportunity
> > > to meet Cornelius, Zira's husband.
> > >
> > > Milo attends the meeting and is surprised to discover a great
many
> > > other chimps, like himself who are frustrated by the Orangutans
> > > refusal to allow science to advance. They call themselves "The
sons of
> > > Galen" in honour of a legendary Chimpanzee who, the stories say,
> > > defied the powers that be and dedicated himself to the search
for the
> > > truth. (Fox Mulder of the Ape world) He meets fellow scientist
> > > Cornelius (who has secrets of his own) The topic for the
evening is
> > > "Did man once ruled the earth" A notion that the Chimps are at
least
> > > happy to discuss. Some ancient artifacts are revealed (mostly by
> > > Cornelius) supporting his theory that the Ape evolved from men.
One
> > > such artifact is an ancient crumbling book from the 20th
century about
> > > Science Fiction movies. One fading photograph from the
movie "When
> > > worlds collide" show a space ark upon the trestle type launch
platform
> > > that arcs up the side of a mountain. Milo is inspired by this
picture
> > > and thinks he has solved a small part of the problem of how to
get the
> > > spacecraft back into the air.
> > >
> > > CHAPTER 7
> > > Milo confides his secret to Darwin and Cornelius who agree that
the
> > > ship of which he speaks must be Taylor's. Cornelius is unable to
> > > accompany Milo on another expedition due to Taylors imminent
trial.
> > > Darwin has too high a profile to be seen leaving the city
> > >
> > > CHAPTER 8
> > > Milo returns alone (without permission) to the site of the
ship. He
> > > spends many weeks/months in the Forbidden Zone studying the
craft
> > > (with the aid of an oracle like computer program.) The
programmes and
> > > electric's are mostly undamaged but most importantly, fully
automated.
> > > Much superficial water damage is cleaned up and the integrity
of the
> > > craft is returned to almost 100% However some vital components
need
> > > replacing... Components that have no counterparts in the 40th
> > > century... Without them, the ship is useless.
> > >
> > > CHAPTER 9
> > > He returns again to Ape city to find that Ursus has now gained
> > > popularity and is successfully pushing for an invasion of the
> > > Forbidden Zone. Because of the volatile political climate Zaius
> > > resources are stretched rather thinly and Milo is allowed to
come and
> > > go almost unnoticed. He calls another meeting of the "Sons of
Galen"
> > > and this time tells them everything. The chimps agree that
Milo's plan
> > > of a fly-over would certainly shake up and perhaps oust the
Orangutans
> > > from power and maybe enable the Chimps to take over and rule
more
> > > sensibly. Milo is confident that the craft would have flown
again if
> > > only it were not lacking the vital missing pieces. Cornelius
> > > introduces Milo to Zira and they stun him by revealing another
ship,
> > > similar to Taylor's has recently crashed (Brents)
> > >
> > > The "Sons of Galen" begin to organise a huge and risky
undertaking.
> > > Under the cover of the approaching war and while the Gorillas
and
> > > Orangutans are seemingly otherwise occupied a large workforce
> > > comprised entirely of Chimps head out into the Zone to begin
work on
> > > the huge take off ramp that will be required. Meanwhile Milo,
> > > Cornelius and Zira set out to locate Brents Ship and hopefully
the
> > > required spare parts.
> > >
> > > The suspicious Zaius has the Chimps followed by Gorilla
scouts/spies.
> > > The spies witness the discovery of the second ship then follow
the
> > > three apes back to the location of the first. They are stunned
at the
> > > scale of the construction work taking place and gallop back to
Ape
> > > city to make their report.
> > >
> > > CHAPTER 10 - 11
> > > Zaius is not surprised to learn of Zira and Cornelius's part in
the
> > > heresy about to take place. Unable to attend to the matter
himself due
> > > to Ursus's imminent invasion of the Forbidden Zone, Zaius sends
a
> > > batallion of police to arrest the leaders of the heretical
rebellion
> > > and gives them orders to destroy the project.
> > >
> > > A battalion of more than one hundred Policemen gallop into the
> > > forbidden zone to obey the orders of zaius. Milo meanwhile has
managed
> > > to replace most of the damaged parts. Pack horses, levers and
elbow
> > > grease have lifted the spacecraft into position upon the ramp.
In two
> > > days Milo and a volunteer will attempt to fly the craft in a
circuit
> > > that will take them over the skies of Ape city and over the
heads of
> > > the advancing Gorrilla Army, led by Ursus... The Chimpanzees
hope the
> > > sight of a flying machine will not only halt the senseless war
but be
> > > the catalyst for bringing about a new era of peace.
> > >
> > > Milo is confident the ship will fly but has little idea how to
pilot
> > > or land it safely. He is prepared for what he believes will be a
> > > one-way trip and is resigned to becoming a martyr to the cause
of
> > > peace and free science. The most he can hope for is to crash
once more
> > > into the water.
> > >
> > > CHAPTER 12
> > > Dawn breaks on the final day on the Planet of the Apes.
Elsewhere the
> > > gorrila army have begaun to engage the mutants in the
underground
> > > remains of New York City.
> > >
> > > By Lake Powell a huge cloud of dust announces the approach of
the
> > > battalion of Police sent by Zaius. The "Sons of Galen" caught
unawares
> > > scatter and the gorillas approach unopposed. Milo terrified
that all
> > > his dreams are about to be obliterated climbs into the
spacecraft.
> > > Cornelius and Zira try to stop him but the sound of bullets
bouncing
> > > off the hull causes them all to seek refuge inside the ship.
The hatch
> > > is closed, the apes buckle up.
> > >
> > > The automated launch program is initiated. Gorillas arrive at
the ship
> > > and begin to pound upon the hull with rifle butts. The leader
gives
> > > the order to lay dynamite around the huge wooden platform that
serves
> > > as the runway.
> > >
> > > The engines of the ship and the fuse of the dynamite ignite at
about
> > > the same time, as the ship successfully achieves take-off the
roar of
> > > the exploding launch pad is lost in the sound of a much larger
> > > explosion from New York City.
> > >
> > > The space craft breaks Earths orbit just as the planet explodes
> > > sending a huge shockwave after it.
> > >
> > > Epilogue:
> > >
> > > Re-us
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

.htmlIn a message dated 6/14/2002 12:47:42 PM Central Standard Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

How does Milo get permission to spend so much time in the forbidden zone?

Knowing Milo he didn't ask.

I agree with T on this one. I picture Milo being a bit of a "renegade" when it comes to scientific matters. He probably just went about trying to discover the ships (possible) existance without the permission of the Acadamy. That or he went in under false pretenses, saying he was searching for one thing while secretly trying to uncover the ship.

<.html

.htmlI'd have to agree with the posting from last night, I'd like to see more on the APE culture itself. And another story I'd kind of like to see is "LANDON"... What happened to him from the time of his capture up until the time Taylor see's the lobotomized ex-astronaut? After it was discovered he could speak, was he immediately taken to the lab to be lobotomized by (I'd assume it was) Dr. Galen? Do you think he played "mute" or immediately let it be known he could talk? Was he at all interrogated by anyone (including Zaius) or did Zaius just simply hand down the order of "quiet" this human before he destroys us. What do you members of the group think on this subject?

My own opinion is he probably did talk right away, and was kept under very tight security until Zaius was notified... I think Zaius might have talked to him a bit for himself. After all, I don't think he'd let something like that go... I'm sure he must seen this "mutant" for himself before having him "disposed of."<.html

.htmlI think I'd "maybe" only change that part of it. I'd maybe change it to Milo's discovering of the ship after having discussions with his friends "discovered" this curious talking human...

This should read: I think I'd "maybe" only change that part of it. I'd maybe change it to Milo's discovering of the ship after having discussions with his friends after they "discovered" this curious talking human..<.html

Attachments :

Here's an example of how the toons background will come out.
Image provided by, Dan.

Best.
Al

P.S. This is just a jpeg creation, the DVD creation will be a bit better.
With full titles of episodes and writing.


_____

Alex,

I got my DVD in the mail today. The fact that you did this for the list has
got to be one of the all time coolest things I have seen anyone do for a
group of total strangers. If only we could all be so kind to those around us,
then the world would be a better place.

You put the "fan" in fantastic!

Matt

Attachments :

Glad to hear it, Matt.
I've been told by quit a few so far that they've received their's in mail
the last couple of days.

Enjoy.
Al

>From: MTotsky@...
>Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Alex is the Coolest!
>Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 23:32:46 EDT
>

_____

i'm game though i must say i am more interested in making "all"
planet stories fit into one cohesive timeline than fill "in the gaps"
of the movies. yeah, a major undertaking, but i think it can be done.
that was one of the things my original story dealt with. eddie

--- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> Well why don't we?
>
> Michael
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: epowe_2000 [epowe10097@a...]
> > Sent: Saturday, 15 June 2002 1:18
>
> would be fun to get together with someone and bang out a story.
eddie

In a message dated 6/14/02 10:33:10 PM Central Daylight Time, MTotsky@...
writes:

<< You put the "fan" in fantastic!

Matt >>

Ditto.

-Joe

Hmmm...I always thought it was the intellectually challenged humans trying
to attack what they thought were apes (because the astros had clothes and
spoke).

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: veetus@... [veetus@...]
> Sent: Saturday, 15 June 2002 10:35
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Story between Planet and Beneath
>
>
> The mutants insist they don't kill their enemies. I guess
> scaring them is
> as far as they go (which didn't work). The rolling rock must be an example
> of raw nature or maybe just some action thrown in so the execs wouldn't be
> so nervous of all that screen time walking ( I can't see that
> moment without
> thinking of "Raiders of the Lost Ark"). I'm sure the astros wouls have
> preferred sharing a Rolling Rock rather than running from one.
> - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Anthony B. McElveen" <abmac@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, June 14, 2002 9:32 AM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Story between Planet and Beneath
>
>
> > You're assuming that the mountain was a mirage and that the land was
> > actually flat. I believe both images were projected to hide an entrance
> > to the underground passageways.
> >
> > While we're on the subject I'd like to say that the mutants could easily
> > have eliminated the entire ape army if they'd used their mental powers
> > to hide an existing cliff and lure the apes over it instead of
> > projecting impossible illusions in a physically safe area.
> >
> > Also, I was bothered by the huge rolling boulder in Planet until I saw
> > Beneath. Although I've never heard anyone mention it and it almost
> > certainly isn't true, I deduced that someone involved in Planet already
> > had the idea of psychic mutants who protected their city with annoying,
> > but non-lethal, illusions and wanted to lay a little groundwork for
> > their eventual appearance. I no longer believe that, but I think it's
> > possible that Dehn was also bothered by the self-starting rock and
> > wanted to "unflub" a mistake made by his predecessors.
> >
> > ABMAC
> >
> > On Friday, June 14, 2002, at 10:17 AM, epowe_2000 wrote:
> >
> > > speaking of which, what was the mirage mountain in
> > > beneath. i understand it wasn't really there, but when it disappears
> > > there is nothing there but flat land. how did taylor disappear in an
> > > open space?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

So is the timeline circular or does it change after Cornelius and Zira
travel back with Milo?

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: epowe_2000 [epowe10097@...]
> Sent: Saturday, 15 June 2002 14:05
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Story between Planet and Beneath
>
>
> i'm game though i must say i am more interested in making "all"
> planet stories fit into one cohesive timeline than fill "in the gaps"
> of the movies. yeah, a major undertaking, but i think it can be done.
> that was one of the things my original story dealt with. eddie
>
> --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > Well why don't we?
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: epowe_2000 [epowe10097@a...]
> > > Sent: Saturday, 15 June 2002 1:18
> >
> > would be fun to get together with someone and bang out a story.
> eddie
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

You really rock my world Alex!

If i was gay I would hunt you down and have kinky sex with you.

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: CheeseGOTAS@... [CheeseGOTAS@...]
> Sent: Saturday, 15 June 2002 14:28
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Alex is the Coolest!
>
>
> In a message dated 6/14/02 10:33:10 PM Central Daylight Time,
> MTotsky@...
> writes:
>
> << You put the "fan" in fantastic!
>
> Matt >>
>
> Ditto.
>
> -Joe
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Jeff Krueger has a good timeline.

Jeff, wanna post it for comment?

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: epowe_2000 [epowe10097@...]
> Sent: Saturday, 15 June 2002 14:05
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Story between Planet and Beneath
>
>
> i'm game though i must say i am more interested in making "all"
> planet stories fit into one cohesive timeline than fill "in the gaps"
> of the movies. yeah, a major undertaking, but i think it can be done.
> that was one of the things my original story dealt with. eddie
>
> --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > Well why don't we?
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: epowe_2000 [epowe10097@a...]
> > > Sent: Saturday, 15 June 2002 1:18
> >
> > would be fun to get together with someone and bang out a story.
> eddie
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html

Just a note to remind you that I switched my DVD request to the toons. :o) Unless of course you're giving me both, please cancel my Battle uncut DVD. Also, would you like me to send you shipping costs?? I forgot to ask.

ThyPentacle

  Calima 5021 <calima5021com@...> wrote:

Here is tomorrows mailing list for Battle UNcut.

1. Brian P.
2. James A.
3. ThyPentacle M.D.
4. Tom K.
5. Glen S.
6. Matt T.
7. Patrick T.
8. Shelby R.

All will be shiped Monday morning and should be reaching every by the end of
the week, seeing there all U.S. Posts.

The 10 or 11 Toon requests will go out by the end of the month, (still needs
finishing touches) and POTA 2001 which I believe only, Mike Le Master,
requested, will be sent out next Monday. Seeing he was the only one. I have
you down for Toons as well, Lord T.

A mailing list will be made for toons before shipping as well.
The Krueger Collection, will be made in JULY and will be sold for $10 each,
with half royalties going to, Jeff. And for those who won't have Toons,
Battle UNcut nor POTA 2001 Exclusives, I'll put each up for sale for this
low price as well, following t Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

--- In pota@y..., mlccougar@a... wrote:

> The only thing, I always kind of thought in my mind that

Cornelius and Zira

> knew Milo for some time, like maybe Cornelius went to school

with him or

> something of that nature. And also in my mind, I always kinda

thought that

> Milo came upon his knowledge of the ship from conversations

with those

> "heretic" friends of his. I was under the impression that

Cornelius/Zira told

> him of what Taylor said, things like the location of the crash,

etc.. and

> then Milo went about to see if this was true... But that was in my

mind, I

> don't know what others think, but your ideas pretty much "work"

for me. I

> think I'd "maybe" only change that part of it. I'd maybe change it

to Milo's

> discovering of the ship after having discussions with his

friends

> "discovered" this curious talking human...

Although I haven't thought about this story for a long time I do
remember the biggest headache when I was mapping it out was
a question of TIME... How much elapses between Taylor landing
and the planet exploding.?

So how long between the crash landing and Taylors capture?
How long does it take his throat to heal and start speaking? (He
makes a reference to "It's been weeks" just before the trial. How
long does he wander around in the Forbidden zone before
capture by the mutants? How long is he in captivity before Brent
arrives?

I think I made the decision to allow Milo to find the ship as early
as possible to allow him as much time as possible to discover
its secrets.

I think I still have what little I did wrtie on file - If anyone
wants it
email me privately and I'll pass it on.

Dave

Air mail shouldn't be that much. I just sent about 10 dics to England, by 5
- 7 day air mail and it was no more than 12 dollars. Two Toon discs
shouldn't be more than 5 dollars (less than half the weight of 12 discs) so
don't worry about it.

Best.
Al

P.S. Enjoy the Discs, Dave. Let me know when they get there. I sent it out
on Monday, so it should get to you no later then Saturday (today) or latest
Monday.

>From: "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...>
>Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: RE: [Planet of the Apes] DVD List for Battle
>Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 22:02:05 +1000
>
>Alex
>
>I'm still waiting for you to tell me how much to send you for Air Mail
>shipping to Australia. Did you get my email?
>
>Michael
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: thypentacle [thypentacle@...]
>Sent: Monday, 10 June 2002 8:41
>To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] DVD List for Battle
>
>
>Just a note to remind you that I switched my DVD request to the toons. :o)
>Unless of course you're giving me both, please cancel my Battle uncut DVD.
>Also, would you like me to send you shipping costs?? I forgot to ask.
>
>ThyPentacle
>
> Calima 5021 <calima5021com@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Here is tomorrows mailing list for Battle UNcut.
>
> 1. Brian P.
> 2. James A.
> 3. ThyPentacle M.D.
> 4. Tom K.
> 5. Glen S.
> 6. Matt T.
> 7. Patrick T.
> 8. Shelby R.
>
> All will be shiped Monday morning and should be reaching every by the
>end of
> the week, seeing there all U.S. Posts.
>
> The 10 or 11 Toon requests will go out by the end of the month, (still
>needs
> finishing touches) and POTA 2001 which I believe only, Mike Le Master,
> requested, will be sent out next Monday. Seeing he was the only one. I
>have
> you down for Toons as well, Lord T.
>
> A mailing list will be made for toons before shipping as well.
> The Krueger Collection, will be made in JULY and will be sold for $10
>each,
> with half royalties going to, Jeff. And for those who won't have
>Toons,
> Battle UNcut nor POTA 2001 Exclusives, I'll put each up for sale for
>this
> low price as well, following t Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002
>FIFA
>World Cup
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>

_____

These figures certainly are um....interesting. Have you seen them
for sales here in the states and if so at what store? Thanks,
Bernard--- In pota@y..., "Jeff & Susan Stringer" <stringe@b...>
wrote:

> These are unlicensed figures. Probably from Mexico. You should

see their

> STAR WARS knockoffs. Scary.
> Gristle P.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "mystic4ever" <mystic4ever@s...>
> To: <pota@y...>
> Sent: Thursday, June 13, 2002 9:19 PM
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] New Ape Toys: SPACE OF THE APES!
>
>
> Has anyone else out there seen these? I saw the display for the

first time

> today for these SPACE OF THE APES figures. Apparently they were

released in

> May. Kind of hokey, but if you loved the Burton movie like I did,

you'll

> probably like them! Odd packaging since the blister card has

modified pics

> of the classic characters, but the actual figures are all POTA 2001
> inspired. There are six that I've seen. I've attached scans of

two of the

> "gorillas". The others are a male & female human where the female

resembles

> Daena and the male is an astronaut who doesn't look much like

Wahlberg;

> another gorilla with gold colouring and there's a female warrior

gorilla.

>
> Dan

the timeline changes but not because of zira and cornelius' travel.
their travel created the original timeline. it changes because of
another time traveler. the whole idea (besides trying to tie
disparate apes stories together) was to suggest (as i believed at the
time) that history's details can be changed but fate (if you want to
call it that) will always deliver the same outcome when you look at
the broad picture. eddie

--- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> So is the timeline circular or does it change after Cornelius and
Zira
> travel back with Milo?
>
> Michael
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: epowe_2000 [epowe10097@a...]
> > Sent: Saturday, 15 June 2002 14:05
> > To: pota@y...
> > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Story between Planet and Beneath
> >
> >
> > i'm game though i must say i am more interested in making "all"
> > planet stories fit into one cohesive timeline than fill "in the
gaps"
> > of the movies. yeah, a major undertaking, but i think it can be
done.
> > that was one of the things my original story dealt with. eddie
> >
> > --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > > Well why don't we?
> > >
> > > Michael
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: epowe_2000 [epowe10097@a...]
> > > > Sent: Saturday, 15 June 2002 1:18
> > >
> > > would be fun to get together with someone and bang out a story.
> > eddie
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >
> >

--- In pota@y..., "Melkor" <melkor@m...> wrote:

> >--- In pota@y..., "Melkor" <melkor@m...> wrote:
> >>>Yet Heston could have declined to play the part, had he had
> >>>any qualms about the thematic content of the film. Although
> >>>Heston
> >>
> >> And would that happen before or after your pole-shifted
> >>Australia moves to the northern hemisphere?
> >
> >***Would WHAT happen? Heston's decision to appear in

POTA?

> >That'd be in, oh, what was it? about 1966-7...? I don't quite

know

> >what kinda point you're trying to make here, Morgoth...
> >
> >Patrick
>
> Sorry Patrick but your implying that actors are the same as the

roles they are

> performing because professional actors like Heston don't play

roles that are

> different from them reminded me about one of your earlier

Greatest Hits. But

> maybe Heston really does let out a big hearty laugh to mock

the patriotic

> schmoes who put up American flags like Taylor does. And

maybe Heston wants the

> same liberal utopia Taylor wants in his POTA monologue.

Maybe actors never

> play characters who are different than them...and maybe

Australia will

> "pole-shift" over to a different hemisphere. Anything can

happen in the

> Patrick universe.

*** I don't think that that was what I was implying (i.e. that Heston
the Actor wouldn't play a Character who was different than him).
What I was suggesting was that Heston could have refused to
do the role based on a philosophical disagreement with the
politics of the film, had he had any personal reasons to do so.
For example, the movie "The Contender" (with Joan Allen, Jeff
Bridges, and Gary Oldman) has a decidedly "left-wing" slant to it
that a die-hard "right-wing" actor (such as Heston [?] or Bruce
Willis, etc.) might not have wanted to associate himself with.
Heston was not hard up for acting jobs back in 1968, so IF he
didn't like Serling and Wilson's script (and the
philosophical/political slant of it), he could have told Arthur
Jacobs, "Sorry, Artie... but this isn't the kind of project I see myself
supporting--try Kirk Douglas, maybe..." (or something like that). I
could easily see a "left-winger" turning down ANY role in the 3rd
Rambo movie, or "Invasion U.S.A." (etc.), or any other role that
was "Rah rah rah" with a blatant Right-Wing agenda; similarly, I
could see a "right-winger" turning down any role in a movie with
a Left-Wing agenda, just for the sake of being "true" to his/her
own principles. Heston, who COULD have turned down PLANET
OF THE APES due to a disagreement over its politics, decided to
do the film--which means that either he AGREED with its politics,
or he did it despite disagreeing with its politics... "selling-out" his
Conscience in order to get paid for the job.
I trust, Melkor, that you can see the difference between this sort
of implication and the one you thought I had put forward.

Patrick Michael Tilton
EARTH-TIME 6-15-2002

--- In pota@y..., "Anthony B. McElveen" <abmac@i...> wrote:

> You're assuming that the mountain was a mirage and that the

land was

> actually flat. I believe both images were projected to hide an

entrance

> to the underground passageways.
>
> While we're on the subject I'd like to say that the mutants could

easily

> have eliminated the entire ape army if they'd used their mental

powers

> to hide an existing cliff and lure the apes over it instead of
> projecting impossible illusions in a physically safe area.
>
> Also, I was bothered by the huge rolling boulder in Planet until I

saw

> Beneath. Although I've never heard anyone mention it and it

almost

> certainly isn't true, I deduced that someone involved in Planet

already

> had the idea of psychic mutants who protected their city with

annoying,

> but non-lethal, illusions and wanted to lay a little groundwork

for

> their eventual appearance. I no longer believe that, but I think

it's

> possible that Dehn was also bothered by the self-starting rock

and

> wanted to "unflub" a mistake made by his predecessors.
>
> ABMAC

*** Heyyyy!!! A word I coined is now in use! "Unflub" lives!
Incidentally, you have a good point about the Mutants' rather
unimaginative use of their illusion-casting power. Why didn't they
make the Apes think that the Queensboro Plaza subway tunnels
were caved in? If Ursus' army doesn't know there are tunnels
there leading to the "city of the dead", then Mendez & Co. are safe
and sound. Or... why not fool the gorillas into thinking they see
other apes, instead of fleshy-headed mutants? All sorts of
possibilities...

Patrick

--- In pota@y..., mlccougar@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 6/14/2002 12:47:42 PM Central Standard

Time,

> LordTZer0@A... writes:
>
>
> >
> > >>
> >
> >
>
> I agree with T on this one. I picture Milo being a bit of a

"renegade" when

> it comes to scientific matters. He probably just went about

trying to

> discover the ships (possible) existance without the permission

of the

> Acadamy. That or he went in under false pretenses, saying he

was searching

> for one thing while secretly trying to uncover the ship.

*** How's this for an idea?
Cornelius went into the Forbidden Zone WITH Milo (who helped
him to build the causeway leading up to the Cave, etc.); Milo later
on rides further along the coastline (after Cornelius goes back to
Ape City) and sees not only the Statue of Liberty but ALSO finds
"on our seaboard" (as Cornelius later tells the Presidential
Commission) the ANSA ship with 3 seats, which 3 unknown
astronauts had landed just a little bit earlier (hell, maybe he even
sees the landing!)...
I doubt if he took parts from Brent's ship to "patch up" Taylor's
dredged-up ship, since the Bomb blows the planet up only about
a week (at the most) after Brent crashlands the thing. Not really
enough time to scoot over to the site, yank out usable
doohickeys, and get back to the other ship & install 'em in time to
take off...

Patrick

.html--- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:

> So is the timeline circular or does it change after Cornelius and

Zira

> travel back with Milo?
>
> Michael

In a message dated 6/15/2002 10:18:13 AM Central Standard Time, epowe10097@... writes:

the timeline changes but not because of zira and cornelius' travel.

their travel created the original timeline. it changes because of
another time traveler. the whole idea (besides trying to tie
disparate apes stories together) was to suggest (as i believed at the
time) that history's details can be changed but fate (if you want to
call it that) will always deliver the same outcome when you look at
the broad picture. eddie

We covered the circular vs. new timeline in here before, but I'm telling you, the Ape-o-nauts arrival in "our time" starts the 2nd (i.e NEW) timeline. I think there is no way that their arrival created the original timeline. I don't see how it is at all possible. They come from the original one, how can they possibly create it?

And who is this "other" time traveller that is supposed to have changed the timeline?<.html

As for the 'toons, Alex, try to put them chronological:

1. Flames of Doom
2. Escape From Ape City
3. Unearthly Prophecy
4. Tunnel of Fear
5. Lagoon of Peril
6. Terror on Ice Mnt.
7. River of Flames
8. Screaming Wings
9. Trail to the Unknown
10. Attack from the Clouds
11. Mission of mercy
12. Invasion of the Underdwellers
13. Battle of the Titans Etc.

- - - Jeff

Okay, I'm now capturing and placing these episodes in order.
This is the same order as my Video Tapes, so that's good. Strangely the
order in The Planet of the Apes CHRONICLES (the book) is out of order.

I may place up to 9 episodes in DVD 1 and 4 episodes in DVD 2, which will
give me some extra space in DVD 2 to add some more POTA goodies. :o)

Best.
Al


_____

Thanks to Alex I got my Extended Battle DVD today. Excellent! This is now my
favorite DVD. The music CD is cool too I just finished listening to all of it.

-Tom

I know that copyright issues prevent you from considering it, but it
would be appropriate to have "A Fish Called Selma" and "Planet of the
NRApes" with the other cartoons.

ABMAC

On Saturday, June 15, 2002, at 12:51 PM, Calima 5021 wrote:

> I may place up to 9 episodes in DVD 1 and 4 episodes in DVD 2, which
> will
> give me some extra space in DVD 2 to add some more POTA goodies. :o)
>
> Best.
> Al

.htmlIn a message dated 6/15/2002 11:57:45 AM Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

Incidentally, you have a good point about the Mutants' rather
unimaginative use of their illusion-casting power. Why didn't they
make the Apes think that the Queensboro Plaza subway tunnels
were caved in? If Ursus' army doesn't know there are tunnels
there leading to the "city of the dead," then Mendez & Co. are safe
and sound. Or ... why not fool the gorillas into thinking they see
other apes, instead of fleshy-headed mutants? All sorts of
possibilities...

Patrick

I always figured that since they knew the Apes (well, Zaius anyway), seen thru their illusions, they knew it was pointless to even try to use them anymore. Their "weapons" were proven to be useless (Zaius proved "The vision was false...") OK now, that doesn't mean that had they tried other things to scare them off that that wouldn't have worked, but "maybe" since they knew their illusions were proven to be false once, they might have figured the soldiers would have just blindly attacked anything. I'm not setting here saying that is the case, or even that this is chiseled in stone as to what I think on this subject.... But I'd lean towards these thoughts.

And this is just pure speculation, but "maybe" in a panic (knowing the enemy is on the way) their abilities to throw up these visions or do mind control is weak, if existent at all. I'd kind of guess they can only do them when they feel they are in control of the situation and they are totally concentrating on doing them. I mean look, Ongaro's concentration was broke when he heard  Nova mumble out "Taylor" and then his mind control over Brent and Taylor was broken, giving them the ability to kill him since he no longer had control over them. Imagine a group of scared mutants trying to concentrate on projecting illusions to an army of 100's of armed gorillas, it may not happen. If a savage human girl can break the mind control of a highly developed mind controller, do you think that a group of illusions projected by scared mutants would even hold? My guess would be no. They'd be weak (un-holdable) illusions, if they'd be able to project them at all.<.html

me and michael were talking about a story I HAD WRITTEN. the person
was in that story. nothing official. how cornelius and zira can
create their timeline is all part of how one views time travel. not
saying you are right or wrong, but tt has always been an area that
people have taken different outlooks on. i.e. the same possiblities
in back to the future 2 (michael j. fox being able to be in the same
time period as another one of himselves) is not the logic shared by
many other films. it's all in how you perceive time travel to begin
with. eddie

--- In pota@y..., mlccougar@a... wrote:
> --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > So is the timeline circular or does it change after Cornelius and
> Zira
> > travel back with Milo?
> >
> > Michael
>
> In a message dated 6/15/2002 10:18:13 AM Central Standard Time,
> epowe10097@a... writes:
> >
> > the timeline changes but not because of zira and cornelius'
travel.
> > their travel created the original timeline. it changes because of
> > another time traveler. the whole idea (besides trying to tie
> > disparate apes stories together) was to suggest (as i believed at
the
> > time) that history's details can be changed but fate (if you want
to
> > call it that) will always deliver the same outcome when you look
at
> > the broad picture. eddie
> >
> We covered the circular vs. new timeline in here before, but I'm
telling you,
> the Ape-o-nauts arrival in "our time" starts the 2nd (i.e NEW)
timeline. I
> think there is no way that their arrival created the original
timeline. I
> don't see how it is at all possible. They come from the original
one, how can
> they possibly create it?
>
> And who is this "other" time traveller that is supposed to have
changed the
> timeline?

Acting in roles that are different than you and have different views is
considered professionalism, not "selling out". I doubt that anyone thought
much about Heston's political views back in 1967 while he was doing POTA,
including Heston himself.

Taylor is clearly different then Heston and saying that this is Heston "selling
out" is insulting to the whole acting profession. Taylor goes around mocking
the American flag, criticizing conservatives, and hoping for a liberal utopia.
Heston does not do any of these things. By implying that Heston must have the
same views as Taylor because otherwise Heston probably would have turned down
the POTA role you are insulting both Heston's political views and his
professionalism. If you don't mean to imply this than don't.

Maybe actors are "selling out" whenever they happen to play characters with
different views than their own...and maybe Australia will be renamed "New
America" and have all its cities renamed to American cities too. Anything
goes in the Patrick universe.

>> Sorry Patrick but your implying that actors are the same as the
>roles they are
>> performing because professional actors like Heston don't play
>roles that are
>> different from them reminded me about one of your earlier
>Greatest Hits. But
>> maybe Heston really does let out a big hearty laugh to mock
>the patriotic
>> schmoes who put up American flags like Taylor does. And
>maybe Heston wants the
>> same liberal utopia Taylor wants in his POTA monologue.
>Maybe actors never
>> play characters who are different than them...and maybe
>Australia will
>> "pole-shift" over to a different hemisphere. Anything can
>happen in the
>> Patrick universe.
>
>*** I don't think that that was what I was implying (i.e. that Heston
>the Actor wouldn't play a Character who was different than him).
>What I was suggesting was that Heston could have refused to
>do the role based on a philosophical disagreement with the
>politics of the film, had he had any personal reasons to do so.
>For example, the movie "The Contender" (with Joan Allen, Jeff
>Bridges, and Gary Oldman) has a decidedly "left-wing" slant to it
>that a die-hard "right-wing" actor (such as Heston [?] or Bruce
>Willis, etc.) might not have wanted to associate himself with.
>Heston was not hard up for acting jobs back in 1968, so IF he
>didn't like Serling and Wilson's script (and the
>philosophical/political slant of it), he could have told Arthur
>Jacobs, "Sorry, Artie... but this isn't the kind of project I see myself
>supporting--try Kirk Douglas, maybe..." (or something like that). I
>could easily see a "left-winger" turning down ANY role in the 3rd
>Rambo movie, or "Invasion U.S.A." (etc.), or any other role that
>was "Rah rah rah" with a blatant Right-Wing agenda; similarly, I
>could see a "right-winger" turning down any role in a movie with
>a Left-Wing agenda, just for the sake of being "true" to his/her
>own principles. Heston, who COULD have turned down PLANET
>OF THE APES due to a disagreement over its politics, decided to
>do the film--which means that either he AGREED with its politics,
>or he did it despite disagreeing with its politics... "selling-out" his
>Conscience in order to get paid for the job.
>I trust, Melkor, that you can see the difference between this sort
>of implication and the one you thought I had put forward.

This is addressed to everyone involved in this debate:

You're assuming that Heston's views differ from Taylor's. When,
specifically, do Taylor's actions go against Heston's views?

Taylor doesn't mock patriotism, he mocks misplaced patriotism. He
doesn't criticize conservatives, he criticizes censorship and
oppression. He isn't looking for a liberal utopia, he's looking for a
place where reason prevails. Reason is not the exclusive domain of
liberals.

He doesn't want a gun because it's his right, he wants one because he
can't count on the chimps to kill other apes for his protection.

What would Taylor have done differently if he'd had Heston's views?

ABMAC

On Saturday, June 15, 2002, at 01:27 PM, Melkor wrote:

> Acting in roles that are different than you and have different views is
> considered professionalism, not "selling out". I doubt that anyone
> thought
> much about Heston's political views back in 1967 while he was doing
> POTA,
> including Heston himself.
>
> Taylor is clearly different then Heston and saying that this is Heston
> "selling
> out" is insulting to the whole acting profession. Taylor goes around
> mocking
> the American flag, criticizing conservatives, and hoping for a liberal
> utopia.
> Heston does not do any of these things. By implying that Heston must
> have the
> same views as Taylor because otherwise Heston probably would have
> turned down
> the POTA role you are insulting both Heston's political views and his
> professionalism. If you don't mean to imply this than don't.
>
> Maybe actors are "selling out" whenever they happen to play characters
> with
> different views than their own...and maybe Australia will be renamed
> "New
> America" and have all its cities renamed to American cities too.
> Anything
> goes in the Patrick universe.
>
>
>>> Sorry Patrick but your implying that actors are the same as the
>> roles they are
>>> performing because professional actors like Heston don't play
>> roles that are
>>> different from them reminded me about one of your earlier
>> Greatest Hits. But
>>> maybe Heston really does let out a big hearty laugh to mock
>> the patriotic
>>> schmoes who put up American flags like Taylor does. And
>> maybe Heston wants the
>>> same liberal utopia Taylor wants in his POTA monologue.
>> Maybe actors never
>>> play characters who are different than them...and maybe
>> Australia will
>>> "pole-shift" over to a different hemisphere. Anything can
>> happen in the
>>> Patrick universe.
>>
>> *** I don't think that that was what I was implying (i.e. that Heston
>> the Actor wouldn't play a Character who was different than him).
>> What I was suggesting was that Heston could have refused to
>> do the role based on a philosophical disagreement with the
>> politics of the film, had he had any personal reasons to do so.
>> For example, the movie "The Contender" (with Joan Allen, Jeff
>> Bridges, and Gary Oldman) has a decidedly "left-wing" slant to it
>> that a die-hard "right-wing" actor (such as Heston [?] or Bruce
>> Willis, etc.) might not have wanted to associate himself with.
>> Heston was not hard up for acting jobs back in 1968, so IF he
>> didn't like Serling and Wilson's script (and the
>> philosophical/political slant of it), he could have told Arthur
>> Jacobs, "Sorry, Artie... but this isn't the kind of project I see
>> myself
>> supporting--try Kirk Douglas, maybe..." (or something like that). I
>> could easily see a "left-winger" turning down ANY role in the 3rd
>> Rambo movie, or "Invasion U.S.A." (etc.), or any other role that
>> was "Rah rah rah" with a blatant Right-Wing agenda; similarly, I
>> could see a "right-winger" turning down any role in a movie with
>> a Left-Wing agenda, just for the sake of being "true" to his/her
>> own principles. Heston, who COULD have turned down PLANET
>> OF THE APES due to a disagreement over its politics, decided to
>> do the film--which means that either he AGREED with its politics,
>> or he did it despite disagreeing with its politics... "selling-out" his
>> Conscience in order to get paid for the job.
>> I trust, Melkor, that you can see the difference between this sort
>> of implication and the one you thought I had put forward.

Attachments :

Cool to hear.

Enjoy.
Al

>From: "Melkor" <melkor@...>
>Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Extended Battle DVD came
>Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 11:16:16 -0700
>

_____

Well said Anthony. I've always seen Taylor as a cynic who was
disgusted with both the right and the left.

--- In pota@y..., "Anthony B. McElveen" <abmac@i...> wrote:
> This is addressed to everyone involved in this debate:
>
> You're assuming that Heston's views differ from Taylor's. When,
> specifically, do Taylor's actions go against Heston's views?
>
> Taylor doesn't mock patriotism, he mocks misplaced patriotism. He
> doesn't criticize conservatives, he criticizes censorship and
> oppression. He isn't looking for a liberal utopia, he's looking
for a
> place where reason prevails. Reason is not the exclusive domain of
> liberals.
>
> He doesn't want a gun because it's his right, he wants one because
he
> can't count on the chimps to kill other apes for his protection.
>
> What would Taylor have done differently if he'd had Heston's views?
>
> ABMAC
>
> On Saturday, June 15, 2002, at 01:27 PM, Melkor wrote:
>
> > Acting in roles that are different than you and have different
views is
> > considered professionalism, not "selling out". I doubt that
anyone
> > thought
> > much about Heston's political views back in 1967 while he was
doing
> > POTA,
> > including Heston himself.
> >
> > Taylor is clearly different then Heston and saying that this is
Heston
> > "selling
> > out" is insulting to the whole acting profession. Taylor goes
around
> > mocking
> > the American flag, criticizing conservatives, and hoping for a
liberal
> > utopia.
> > Heston does not do any of these things. By implying that Heston
must
> > have the
> > same views as Taylor because otherwise Heston probably would
have
> > turned down
> > the POTA role you are insulting both Heston's political views
and his
> > professionalism. If you don't mean to imply this than don't.
> >
> > Maybe actors are "selling out" whenever they happen to play
characters
> > with
> > different views than their own...and maybe Australia will be
renamed
> > "New
> > America" and have all its cities renamed to American cities
too.
> > Anything
> > goes in the Patrick universe.
> >
> >
> >>> Sorry Patrick but your implying that actors are the same as the
> >> roles they are
> >>> performing because professional actors like Heston don't play
> >> roles that are
> >>> different from them reminded me about one of your earlier
> >> Greatest Hits. But
> >>> maybe Heston really does let out a big hearty laugh to mock
> >> the patriotic
> >>> schmoes who put up American flags like Taylor does. And
> >> maybe Heston wants the
> >>> same liberal utopia Taylor wants in his POTA monologue.
> >> Maybe actors never
> >>> play characters who are different than them...and maybe
> >> Australia will
> >>> "pole-shift" over to a different hemisphere. Anything can
> >> happen in the
> >>> Patrick universe.
> >>
> >> *** I don't think that that was what I was implying (i.e. that
Heston
> >> the Actor wouldn't play a Character who was different than him).
> >> What I was suggesting was that Heston could have refused to
> >> do the role based on a philosophical disagreement with the
> >> politics of the film, had he had any personal reasons to do so.
> >> For example, the movie "The Contender" (with Joan Allen, Jeff
> >> Bridges, and Gary Oldman) has a decidedly "left-wing" slant to
it
> >> that a die-hard "right-wing" actor (such as Heston [?] or Bruce
> >> Willis, etc.) might not have wanted to associate himself with.
> >> Heston was not hard up for acting jobs back in 1968, so IF he
> >> didn't like Serling and Wilson's script (and the
> >> philosophical/political slant of it), he could have told Arthur
> >> Jacobs, "Sorry, Artie... but this isn't the kind of project I
see
> >> myself
> >> supporting--try Kirk Douglas, maybe..." (or something like
that). I
> >> could easily see a "left-winger" turning down ANY role in the
3rd
> >> Rambo movie, or "Invasion U.S.A." (etc.), or any other role that
> >> was "Rah rah rah" with a blatant Right-Wing agenda; similarly, I
> >> could see a "right-winger" turning down any role in a movie with
> >> a Left-Wing agenda, just for the sake of being "true" to his/her
> >> own principles. Heston, who COULD have turned down PLANET
> >> OF THE APES due to a disagreement over its politics, decided to
> >> do the film--which means that either he AGREED with its
politics,
> >> or he did it despite disagreeing with its politics... "selling-
out" his
> >> Conscience in order to get paid for the job.
> >> I trust, Melkor, that you can see the difference between this
sort
> >> of implication and the one you thought I had put forward.

We have covered it before and it is really open to individual
interpetation. There is no real right or wrong way to look at it
since the filmmakers left things very open at the end of Battle.

--- In pota@y..., mlccougar@a... wrote:
> We covered the circular vs. new timeline in here before, but I'm
telling you,
> the Ape-o-nauts arrival in "our time" starts the 2nd (i.e NEW)
timeline. I
> think there is no way that their arrival created the original
timeline. I
> don't see how it is at all possible. They come from the original
one, how can
> they possibly create it?
>
> And who is this "other" time traveller that is supposed to have
changed the
> timeline?

Dave,

I agree he needs to find it almost IMMEDIATELY to allow him to become a
rocket scientist.

That's why I think the idea of him having discovered another well preserved
ship (pr more than one) many years ago makes a lot of sense. He could have
taken years to research, even built a few prototype flying machines (or
models thereof) shunned by Zauis (and explaining better Zaius fear of
intelligent humans).

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: smugster2000 [4print@...]
> Sent: Saturday, 15 June 2002 22:43
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Story between Planet and Beneath
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., mlccougar@a... wrote:
>
> > The only thing, I always kind of thought in my mind that
> Cornelius and Zira
> > knew Milo for some time, like maybe Cornelius went to school
> with him or
> > something of that nature. And also in my mind, I always kinda
> thought that
> > Milo came upon his knowledge of the ship from conversations
> with those
> > "heretic" friends of his. I was under the impression that
> Cornelius/Zira told
> > him of what Taylor said, things like the location of the crash,
> etc.. and
> > then Milo went about to see if this was true... But that was in my
> mind, I
> > don't know what others think, but your ideas pretty much "work"
> for me. I
> > think I'd "maybe" only change that part of it. I'd maybe change it
> to Milo's
> > discovering of the ship after having discussions with his
> friends
> > "discovered" this curious talking human...
>
> Although I haven't thought about this story for a long time I do
> remember the biggest headache when I was mapping it out was
> a question of TIME... How much elapses between Taylor landing
> and the planet exploding.?
>
> So how long between the crash landing and Taylors capture?
> How long does it take his throat to heal and start speaking? (He
> makes a reference to "It's been weeks" just before the trial. How
> long does he wander around in the Forbidden zone before
> capture by the mutants? How long is he in captivity before Brent
> arrives?
>
> I think I made the decision to allow Milo to find the ship as early
> as possible to allow him as much time as possible to discover
> its secrets.
>
> I think I still have what little I did wrtie on file - If anyone
> wants it
> email me privately and I'll pass it on.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

That's exactly right but the more I think about it the more I believe Zira
and Corn set a NEW timeline. You sure can still argue that the outcome will
still be the same in 3955,but with different variables causing it.

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: epowe_2000 [epowe10097@...]
> Sent: Sunday, 16 June 2002 4:25
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Story between Planet and Beneath
>
>
> me and michael were talking about a story I HAD WRITTEN. the person
> was in that story. nothing official. how cornelius and zira can
> create their timeline is all part of how one views time travel. not
> saying you are right or wrong, but tt has always been an area that
> people have taken different outlooks on. i.e. the same possiblities
> in back to the future 2 (michael j. fox being able to be in the same
> time period as another one of himselves) is not the logic shared by
> many other films. it's all in how you perceive time travel to begin
> with. eddie
>
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., mlccougar@a... wrote:
> > --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > > So is the timeline circular or does it change after Cornelius and
> > Zira
> > > travel back with Milo?
> > >
> > > Michael
> >
> > In a message dated 6/15/2002 10:18:13 AM Central Standard Time,
> > epowe10097@a... writes:
> > >
> > > the timeline changes but not because of zira and cornelius'
> travel.
> > > their travel created the original timeline. it changes because of
> > > another time traveler. the whole idea (besides trying to tie
> > > disparate apes stories together) was to suggest (as i believed at
> the
> > > time) that history's details can be changed but fate (if you want
> to
> > > call it that) will always deliver the same outcome when you look
> at
> > > the broad picture. eddie
> > >
> > We covered the circular vs. new timeline in here before, but I'm
> telling you,
> > the Ape-o-nauts arrival in "our time" starts the 2nd (i.e NEW)
> timeline. I
> > think there is no way that their arrival created the original
> timeline. I
> > don't see how it is at all possible. They come from the original
> one, how can
> > they possibly create it?
> >
> > And who is this "other" time traveller that is supposed to have
> changed the
> > timeline?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Toons is a Bust.
I've been all day today behind my computer trying to squeeze 13 freaken
episodes in to two dvd discs. The final equation is that I can't. 13 30 min.
episodes will have to go on 3 dvd discs which is too much money and trouble
to do. DVD Blanks are still to expensive and burning 3 DVDs for one request
or order is 3 hours alone.

So I'm sad to say that Toons is a Bust, if the cost and burning time to make
where lower, I wouldn't mind at all, but 3 hours alone to burn one set is a
little too much. So, for all who requested Toons, looks like Battle UNcut
will be it. Sorry gang, I tried.

I'll start work on Jeff's Exclusive stuff next weekend along with more
televised POTA Classic Stuff to create one very cool POTA Classic DVD. That
one will be sold at $10 each with half going to, Jeff for Ape Chronicles.

I'll start shipping out Battle UNcut monday, for all who requested toons,
along with my Apes Music CD of course.

Again, I'm sorry, but I tried.

Best.
Al





_____

In a message dated 6/15/02 11:08:27 PM Central Daylight Time,
calima5021com@... writes:

<< Again, I'm sorry, but I tried.

Best.
Al >>

That's no problem, man. It was very great of you to actually try and do this
for the group. I understand that DVDs are expensive, so, atleast you tried.
So, will you still be offering the toons for sale later as 3 DVDs for maybe
15 or 20 dollars? Anyway, thanks again for trying.

-Joe

Attachments :

Well, the issue isn't money, because DVD blanks are as low as 3.50 each. And
of course there going to get a lot cheaper. It's time. 3 hours to burn a 3
disc set is a long time. So I doubt I'll ever offer it at all, just due to
that.

Best.
Al

>From: CheeseGOTAS@...
>Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Toons is a Bust
>Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 00:42:35 EDT
>

_____

As a matter of fact, Right-winger Gary Oldman got into a big public battle
with "The Contender" director because he felt the character changed under
the influence of Dreamworks founder Steven Spielberg. Oldman felt his
character became too ridiculous and one note, I think because of
postproduction choices. The director, Rod Lurie, was a film critic here in
L.A. in the late '90's and he set up these special screenings. I met James
Cameron at a "Titanic" at one and he gave me some quotes about his plans
for POTA that Greene used in his book. I like Rod as a person and respect
his movie opinions, but I've been disappointed with his movies so far.
Actually I 've only seen "The Contender" but I hear "The Last Castle" wasn't
too good. He's still in a preachy stage. Etc. - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2002 8:41 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: POTA weapons


> --- In pota@y..., "Melkor" <melkor@m...> wrote:
> > >--- In pota@y..., "Melkor" <melkor@m...> wrote:
> > >>>Yet Heston could have declined to play the part, had he had
> > >>>any qualms about the thematic content of the film. Although
> > >>>Heston
> > >>
> > >> And would that happen before or after your pole-shifted
> > >>Australia moves to the northern hemisphere?
> > >
> > >***Would WHAT happen? Heston's decision to appear in
> POTA?
> > >That'd be in, oh, what was it? about 1966-7...? I don't quite
> know
> > >what kinda point you're trying to make here, Morgoth...
> > >
> > >Patrick
> >
> > Sorry Patrick but your implying that actors are the same as the
> roles they are
> > performing because professional actors like Heston don't play
> roles that are
> > different from them reminded me about one of your earlier
> Greatest Hits. But
> > maybe Heston really does let out a big hearty laugh to mock
> the patriotic
> > schmoes who put up American flags like Taylor does. And
> maybe Heston wants the
> > same liberal utopia Taylor wants in his POTA monologue.
> Maybe actors never
> > play characters who are different than them...and maybe
> Australia will
> > "pole-shift" over to a different hemisphere. Anything can
> happen in the
> > Patrick universe.
>
> *** I don't think that that was what I was implying (i.e. that Heston
> the Actor wouldn't play a Character who was different than him).
> What I was suggesting was that Heston could have refused to
> do the role based on a philosophical disagreement with the
> politics of the film, had he had any personal reasons to do so.
> For example, the movie "The Contender" (with Joan Allen, Jeff
> Bridges, and Gary Oldman) has a decidedly "left-wing" slant to it
> that a die-hard "right-wing" actor (such as Heston [?] or Bruce
> Willis, etc.) might not have wanted to associate himself with.
> Heston was not hard up for acting jobs back in 1968, so IF he
> didn't like Serling and Wilson's script (and the
> philosophical/political slant of it), he could have told Arthur
> Jacobs, "Sorry, Artie... but this isn't the kind of project I see myself
> supporting--try Kirk Douglas, maybe..." (or something like that). I
> could easily see a "left-winger" turning down ANY role in the 3rd
> Rambo movie, or "Invasion U.S.A." (etc.), or any other role that
> was "Rah rah rah" with a blatant Right-Wing agenda; similarly, I
> could see a "right-winger" turning down any role in a movie with
> a Left-Wing agenda, just for the sake of being "true" to his/her
> own principles. Heston, who COULD have turned down PLANET
> OF THE APES due to a disagreement over its politics, decided to
> do the film--which means that either he AGREED with its politics,
> or he did it despite disagreeing with its politics... "selling-out" his
> Conscience in order to get paid for the job.
> I trust, Melkor, that you can see the difference between this sort
> of implication and the one you thought I had put forward.
>
> Patrick Michael Tilton
> EARTH-TIME 6-15-2002
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

The point is made that the apes "are too dumb to hold our illusions" after
Zauis doesn't buy the burning Lawgiver. If not, it would've been a pretty
boring ending. ("There's nothing here, Ursus. Let's go home.").
I've been reading Pendreigh's great "Legend of POTA" book. It mentions that
everybody but Michael Wilson wanted Heston to die at the end of "Planet".
Jacobs, Abrahams, everybody. But Wilson fought it, saying it would diminish
the ending. If Heston had died:
a) would it be possible the film wouldn't have been as successful?
b) they would've had much more freedom in "Beneath" storywise
Etc. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 15, 2002 9:13 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Story between Planet and Beneath


> --- In pota@y..., "Anthony B. McElveen" <abmac@i...> wrote:
> > You're assuming that the mountain was a mirage and that the
> land was
> > actually flat. I believe both images were projected to hide an
> entrance
> > to the underground passageways.
> >
> > While we're on the subject I'd like to say that the mutants could
> easily
> > have eliminated the entire ape army if they'd used their mental
> powers
> > to hide an existing cliff and lure the apes over it instead of
> > projecting impossible illusions in a physically safe area.
> >
> > Also, I was bothered by the huge rolling boulder in Planet until I
> saw
> > Beneath. Although I've never heard anyone mention it and it
> almost
> > certainly isn't true, I deduced that someone involved in Planet
> already
> > had the idea of psychic mutants who protected their city with
> annoying,
> > but non-lethal, illusions and wanted to lay a little groundwork
> for
> > their eventual appearance. I no longer believe that, but I think
> it's
> > possible that Dehn was also bothered by the self-starting rock
> and
> > wanted to "unflub" a mistake made by his predecessors.
> >
> > ABMAC
>
> *** Heyyyy!!! A word I coined is now in use! "Unflub" lives!
> Incidentally, you have a good point about the Mutants' rather
> unimaginative use of their illusion-casting power. Why didn't they
> make the Apes think that the Queensboro Plaza subway tunnels
> were caved in? If Ursus' army doesn't know there are tunnels
> there leading to the "city of the dead", then Mendez & Co. are safe
> and sound. Or... why not fool the gorillas into thinking they see
> other apes, instead of fleshy-headed mutants? All sorts of
> possibilities...
>
> Patrick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>