> -----Original Message-----
> From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@...]
> Sent: Monday, 1 July 2002 0:37
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Rival Scenarios
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > I don't have a scenario Patrick.
> >
> > I explore a variety of scenarios and all of them have flaws, as do
> > yours (eg the Mothership Earth scenario - I would not be the
> first to say that this is the LAST scenario would offer, would I?).
> >
> > You however seem to think that the scenario you offer is the only
> > one, and that bothers me (so I hope I am wrong).
> >
> > I wonder if you think we are "battling" over whose scenario is
> best. I hope not, because they are all crap! I do wish however
> that instead of using your energy to disprove others' theories
> you would instead look at ways they might work and stop being so
> competitive (and a bit co-operative) about it. The fact that
> you so consistently stick to dismissing everything but your take
> reaaly concerns me as to your motives.
> >
> > Michael
>
> *** I think you're being unfair here. Did I not offer some buttressing
> arguments to a theory I personally DON'T agree with--the theory that
> Taylor's ship didn't really sink, but it was all a Mutant illusion,
> just to "look at ways [it] might work"? I went even further along that
> line of speculation, proferring that Stewart's corpse may also have
> been an illusion--that she was still vivaciously ALIVE--and that the
> Mutants wanted the male astronauts to vamoose, thinking they were
> leaving behind a dead chick.
> Mind you, now, in my scenario Stewart really IS dead, and the sinking
> of the ship is NOT just an illusion... but I liked the idea
> regardless.
>
> Patrick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--- In pota@y..., "Jeff & Susan Stringer" <stringe@b...> wrote:
> Then again, we could all just sit back and enjoy the movies at
face value.
> Gristle P.

> Action Max & Thiller Max show them piecemeal all the time. Escape is
> on tomorrow at 2PM, Battle is on Monday at 6:30AM, Beneath is on
> Wednesday at 10AM and Conquest is on Thursday at 6AM.

> True... And I know you're not the one who brought this subject up,

> meaning this too sound as if I'm saying you left anything out, but

> forget, they also used a Latin word / name URSUS. At least I believe

> Latin in origin, if not, well, I stand corrected.

> Then again, we could all just sit back and enjoy the movies at

> In a message dated 6/30/2002 1:31:30 PM Central Standard Time,
> JamesA1102@... writes:
>
> > First, while Breck's city is unidentified and could be anywhere in
> > the US, the events of Battle firmly establish that city is New

>
> Where and when is this established?

----- Original Message -----
From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2002 11:15 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: POTA, politics, propaganda, etc (OT)


> This is a fiction. Total conservative propaganda. Liberals don't
> want more government. They don't want government encouraging people
> to marry or subsidizing religious schools. All Liberals want is that
> the government look out for the welfare of all the people. Not just
> rich CEOs but for everyone regardless of age, race, religion or sex.
>
> --- In pota@y..., "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@y...>
> wrote:
> > Conservatives see THEMSELVES as people
> > who advocate LESS GOVERNMENT, as opposed to their ideological
> > opposites--the "liberals"--who want MORE government intruding
> where it
> > is not constitutionally sanctioned to do so. So-called "liberals"
> view
> > conservatives NOT as people advocating "less government" but,
> rather,
> > as those who seek to perpetuate the "status quo".
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2002 11:31 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: re:Timeline issues


> This is why the circular timeline theory is derided so much. Thanks
> to Marvel's ridiculous timeline and those that have adopted it.
> There are more holes in that theory than in the Titanic.
> First, while Breck's city is unidentified and could be anywhere in
> the US, the events of Battle firmly establish that city is New York.
> While I can buy a cross country Ape migration, the thought of the
> mutants doing the same with the bomb in tow is ludicrous. Also, the
> ape settlement in the films is consistently refered to as "Ape City"
> while the one in the TV series is consistently called "Central
> City". Also, in the course of the TV series Virdon & Burke travel
> from the San Francisco/Oakland area to Paradise Cove north of LA.
> Why is it they never came upon the ruins of Breck's city? How come
> there is never any large desert or place called the "Forbbiden City"
> encoutered in their travels?
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@y...>
> wrote:
> >
> > *** You're forgetting the previous debate over the location of
> Breck's
> > unnamed city and Caesar's tree-house "Ape City" relative to the
> > location of the "Ape City" from PLANET and BENEATH. There are
> those
> > who insist that Caesar's people live in the SAME territory that is
> > later occupied by Cornelius & Zira, etc.: the "New York/New
> Jersey"
> > area.
> > I have a different view. In my scenario, Breck's city is on the
> West
> > Coast, a "futuristic" arcology set up about halfway between San
> > Francisco and Los Angeles. Eventually, this initial simian society
> > develops into the one we see in the TV series, which is undeniably
> set
> > in the mid-California area (San Francisco and Oakland are the
> settings
> > for the episodes "The Trap" and "The Legacy", respectively). In my
> > scenario, AFTER the time of Virdon and Burke, there is a migration
> of
> > at least a good chunk of this simian civilization from the
> California
> > region to the old New York region, where they INTRODUCED
> civilization
> > where it had not existed since the Nuclear War some 1100 years
> > earlier; the reason that the now-NY-based Apes have an Army is
> because
> > they had to fight wars against the savage bands of "carnivorous
> > gorillas" who dwelt in that area. Although "Ape shall not kill
> ape",
> > when a band of perhaps cannibalistic savage apes are trying to
> munch
> > on you, self defense is an exception to that "most sacred law".
> >
> > So, then, at the same time that the nicey-nice Lawgiver from
> BATTLE is
> > telling the tale of Caesar to his congregation--in California--
> there
> > are tribes of carnivorous gorillas dwelling thousands of miles
> away in
> > the area that was once New York/New Jersey. In my scenario, at any
> > rate.
> >
> > Patrick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2002 1:47 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: POTA, politics, propaganda, etc (OT)

  

All Liberals want is that the government look out for the welfare of all the people.  Not just rich CEOs but for everyone regardless of age, race, religion or sex.

Sounds like Socialism to me.  You know...
Communism's slightly more attractive cousin.
I'm all for looking out for the less fortunate.
But only support programs that work.
Don't throw good money after bad.
The government could get by on less then
half of what they're getting.  That's if you can
trim the pork!  Waste!  That's what I'm against!
Government's only there to manage things.
And they're do it badly.  I only hope that the
guys from Enron, World Com and Anderson
don't go into politics!  That's all we need, feh!
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

--- In pota@y..., mlccougar@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 6/30/2002 1:31:30 PM Central Standard Time,
> JamesA1102@a... writes:
>
>
> > First, while Breck's city is unidentified and could be anywhere
in
> > the US, the events of Battle firmly establish that city is New
York.
> >
>
> Where and when is this established?

--- In pota@y..., "Alan Maxwell" <alan@a...> wrote:
> It isn't. It's not "firmly" established in Battle at all. However,
> I've always viewed the films assuming it is New York as, simply
put,
> that's what makes sense and I think that's what the writers
intended.
>
> Alan

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> For what it's worth, the novelization of "Conquest" (by John
Jakes, no
> less) suggests Breck's city is near San Francisco. Etc. - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@a...>
> To: <pota@y...>
> Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2002 11:31 AM
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: re:Timeline issues
>
>
> > This is why the circular timeline theory is derided so much.
Thanks
> > to Marvel's ridiculous timeline and those that have adopted it.
> > There are more holes in that theory than in the Titanic.
> > First, while Breck's city is unidentified and could be anywhere
in
> > the US, the events of Battle firmly establish that city is New
York.
> > While I can buy a cross country Ape migration, the thought of the
> > mutants doing the same with the bomb in tow is ludicrous. Also,
the
> > ape settlement in the films is consistently refered to as "Ape
City"
> > while the one in the TV series is consistently called "Central
> > City". Also, in the course of the TV series Virdon & Burke travel
> > from the San Francisco/Oakland area to Paradise Cove north of LA.
> > Why is it they never came upon the ruins of Breck's city? How
come
> > there is never any large desert or place called the "Forbbiden
City"
> > encoutered in their travels?
> >
> >
> > --- In pota@y..., "patrickmichaeltilton"
<patrickmichaeltilton@y...>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > *** You're forgetting the previous debate over the location of
> > Breck's
> > > unnamed city and Caesar's tree-house "Ape City" relative to the
> > > location of the "Ape City" from PLANET and BENEATH. There are
> > those
> > > who insist that Caesar's people live in the SAME territory
that is
> > > later occupied by Cornelius & Zira, etc.: the "New York/New
> > Jersey"
> > > area.
> > > I have a different view. In my scenario, Breck's city is on the
> > West
> > > Coast, a "futuristic" arcology set up about halfway between San
> > > Francisco and Los Angeles. Eventually, this initial simian
society
> > > develops into the one we see in the TV series, which is
undeniably
> > set
> > > in the mid-California area (San Francisco and Oakland are the
> > settings
> > > for the episodes "The Trap" and "The Legacy", respectively).
In my
> > > scenario, AFTER the time of Virdon and Burke, there is a
migration
> > of
> > > at least a good chunk of this simian civilization from the
> > California
> > > region to the old New York region, where they INTRODUCED
> > civilization
> > > where it had not existed since the Nuclear War some 1100 years
> > > earlier; the reason that the now-NY-based Apes have an Army is
> > because
> > > they had to fight wars against the savage bands of "carnivorous
> > > gorillas" who dwelt in that area. Although "Ape shall not kill
> > ape",
> > > when a band of perhaps cannibalistic savage apes are trying to
> > munch
> > > on you, self defense is an exception to that "most sacred law".
> > >
> > > So, then, at the same time that the nicey-nice Lawgiver from
> > BATTLE is
> > > telling the tale of Caesar to his congregation--in California--
> > there
> > > are tribes of carnivorous gorillas dwelling thousands of miles
> > away in
> > > the area that was once New York/New Jersey. In my scenario, at
any
> > > rate.
> > >
> > > Patrick
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> Martha Stewart for President! Zing! - - Jeff
>

--- In pota@y..., mlccougar@a... wrote:
> My guess is that it's that way because the show didn't get to stay
on long
> enough for them too encounter these type of "territorys."

--- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> I think the point is that liberals or conservatives aren't bad.
Both parties
> have their good points. It's just that we tend to associate the
opposing
> party the people in it who use it as a platform for power. And
only see the
> good ones in the party that we identify with more. Both parties
have had
> their share of ring masters who only cared about running the
show. Not for
> any common good from either ideological point of view, but for
their own
> selfish interests. There are plenty of orangutans in politics, on
both
> sides!

--- In pota@y..., mlccougar@a... wrote:
> Yes, I know that... I was being sarcasticly about all the things
Patrick says
> Cornelius "really means." I was saying (sarcastically) "If Patrick
says it
> was meant a certain way, it's gotta be true."

----- Original Message -----
From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2002 5:17 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: re:Timeline issues


> Just watched Apollo 13 on USA and to quote Ed Harris, "Let's not
> make the problem worse by GUESSING".
>
> --- In pota@y..., mlccougar@a... wrote:
> > My guess is that it's that way because the show didn't get to stay
> on long
> > enough for them too encounter these type of "territorys."
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2002 5:37 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Milo

And let's not forget old Ulysses!

An interesting choice that.
Wasn't it Ulysses who was always trying to get home?

----- Original Message -----
From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2002 8:11 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: What?


> --- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > I don't like your (implied) tone here.
> >
> > Who knows what they did for the first 6 months?
> >
> > And to suggest that they had to be doing what is logical for them to
> > do is to ignore the fact that there is a whole lot of stuff going on
> > in the story that makes no sense.
> >
> > C'mon yourself Patrick. If they had proven Hasslein's theory, why
> > don't they ever refer to the fact that they had proven it?
>
> *** Taylor: "It's a FACT, Landon; buy it--you'll sleep better."
> I ask you: on what grounds does Taylor have to declare the "theory" to
> be "a fact"? There must be SOME experimental evidence which at least
> does not contradict the theory. I think that this line implies that
> the theory had been tested, to Taylor's satisfaction if not to
> Landon's. If Taylor were aware of any experimental data which flatly
> disproved the theory, he would not be able to be sure of it being
> anywhere near "a fact". Maybe whatever experiments were done didn't
> DISPROVE the theory; this would not "prove" the theory to be true--
> merely that SO FAR the evidence had not ruled it out. To give an
> example from the "theory" of Evolution: there are all sorts of ways in
> which the theory could be "proven" false; for instance, if HUMAN
> remains were to be found in a stratum of pre-Mesozoic rock, then one
> could not claim anymore that humans ONLY existed after the Age of
> Dinosaurs. Aside from some clumsy hoaxes, there isn't a shred of
> evidence placing humans and dinosaurs in the same layer of sedimentary
> rock; if there was even ONE piece of evidence showing this,
> evolutionists would have to re-evaluate their ideas regarding their
> dating methods, etc. So far, the evidence supports the "theory" of
> Evolution; serious scientists still admit that it is "just" a theory
> (as Landon says of Hasslein's theory), but it is a theory which is
> USEFUL because it makes sense of the FACTS, which SO FAR do not
> contradict the theory.
> Maybe there were, say, SEVEN specific "tests" of the Hasslein
> Hypothesis which the ANSA astronauts were given in order to verify
> that their ship was zipping along as Hasslein predicted it would.
> Perhaps they only did TWO of the seven tests, finding that those two
> tests matched the anticipated results so perfectly that any further
> testing was deemed unnecessary. Landon could STILL argue, later on,
> that MAYBE the 3rd, or the 5th, or the 6th of the seven tests WOULD
> have come up differently, thus invalidating the Hasslein Hypothesis.
> But as far as Taylor was concerned, ENOUGH TESTING HAD BEEN DONE to
> "prove" the Hasslein Hypothesis to his satisfaction, thus giving him
> the grounds to refer to it as "a fact". In other words, Taylor knows
> that Landon is just being stubborn because he doesn't WANT to believe
> that Hasslein's "theory" is actually a "fact", because with Stewart
> dead (etc.) he now has NO HOPE of ever begetting children, who could
> carry on his name, or his memory...
>
> Patrick
>
> > Again I conclude there is little point in conversation with you
> > because your beliefs are unshakeable.
> >
> > Whether you believe it or not, your scenarios are impaired, just like
everybody else's, and your "logic" has some very presumptuous foundations.
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > *** ...and there is nothing in the story that suggests that they did
> > not. And, c'mon! Answer me this: what the hell ELSE did they have to
> > do during that 6 month period between Liftoff and Hibernation? Don't
> > you think that they would have had as one of their priorities the
> > TESTING of "Hasslein's hypothesis"? Christ Almighty! but the success
> > or failure of that very theory is at the HEART of their mission. I
> > should think that the most responsible thing for them to do--at the
> > earliest possible & convenient time--is to do just such a test of
> > Hasslein's theory, just in case what Hasslein THOUGHT would probably
> > happen (in accordance with what he'd theorized would happen) was
> > drastically DIFFERENT from what the astronauts could perceive to be
> > happening... merely by looking out the damn front window!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2002 8:45 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: "Sea", I told you....


> --- In pota@y..., mlccougar@a... wrote:
> > In a message dated 6/26/2002 1:36:45 PM Central Standard Time,
> > patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
> >
> >
> > > But what matters most, here, is what CORNELIUS says. It is Cornelius
who mapped the Forbidden Zone;
> >
> > Where and when is it ever said Cornelius is the one who mapped it? Just
because he owns a map, doesn't mean he was the one that laid it out. And,
yes, I know "he can even draw one.." Still, that doesn't prove he is the
mapper of the Zone.
>
> *** Oh, c'mon! It's a reasonable inference. The desert is called "the
> Forbidden Zone" because ever since the Lawgiver instituted his
> "ancient taboo" the Apes are FORBIDDEN to go there. Cornelius had to
> get a permit to travel on his prior archaeological expedition... and
> he purposely BROKE THE LAW, "he exceeded his orders" as Zaius says.
> Not even the President of the Assembly knew of Cornelius' previous
> trip to the Zone, since he unbelievingly asks "YOU entered the
> Forbidden Zone?" (Gasp!)
> Do the Apes sell maps of the Forbidden Zone? That would imply that
> some ape had actually gone INTO it and mapped it beforehand. Yet it is
> a FORBIDDEN zone, so no ape could possibly have gotten permission to
> do this. Cornelius did NOT have permission to travel there... but he
> risked it, and went there anyway. Cornelius is the ONLY ape who
> possibly COULD have mapped the Forbidden Zone (at least, as far as we
> can know, given that no other ape is mentioned as having been there,
> excepting whomever may have accompanied him on his trip).
>
> Remember when Cornelius--after Zaius mentions Taylor supposedly
> landing in a ship in "an inland sea of our eastern desert"--says to
> the Tribunal, "...he comes from somewhere in the Forbidden Zone; he's
> described the region to us accurately for... I have been there."
>
> What does this line imply? Cornelius knows the Zone's terrain because
> he had been there. He knows how to draw maps--hence, he wouldn't need
> to bring along a map-making accomplice to do the job FOR him. As an
> archaeologist, he would make a point of mapping that uncharted
> territory which Zaius tells Taylor has "never been explored"--hence,
> never COULD have been mapped previously. Not until CORNELIUS went
> there...
>
> This may not be "proof" enough for you, but to conclude otherwise is
> just, well, plain silly. Maybe you'd rather believe that there's some
> other ape--perhaps named "Mishalinn"--who just HAPPENED to be able to
> create maps of an unexplored area, and that Cornelius got his maps
> from him. Yeesh!
>
> Patrick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2002 9:27 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] OT: God's flubs...


> --- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> >
> > Here's a theory for you Patrick. If you could get through all the
higher mathematics without your brain seizing up, you find out that creation
can't possibly work. The numbers are just so astronomically high so that
Patrick doesn't find God's flubs. Hows that for a theory, eh?
>
> *** A lot of cosmologists who believe in the Big Bang theory tend to
> use words like "creation" etc. One Bible-believer wrote a book called
> "Genesis and the Big Bang", trying to reconcile the myth of Genesis 1
> to Big Bang cosmology.
> However, ever since reading Eric Lerner's book "THE BIG BANG NEVER
> HAPPENED", I've had my doubts about that theory. Lerner's book does 2
> things: 1.) it airs the "dirty laundry" of inconvenient facts which
> tend to disprove the Big Bang theory, and 2.) it proposes Nobel prize
> winner Dr. Hannes Alfven's "Plasma Cosmology" theory, which makes a
> hell of a lot more sense to me, quite frankly.
> Both the Bible and the Big Bang theory maintain that there WAS a
> "beginning"--but the Plasma Cosmology theory is that the Universe has
> ALWAYS existed, and that there never WAS a primordial "singularity"
> out of which all Spacetime (and the Matter/Energy within it) were
> "created".
> In other words, far from proven, the Big Bang theory is NOT the only
> scientific theory of Cosmology, and this particular rival theory is
> anathema to those who want their Bible to somehow be "scientific". If
> the Universe had no beginning, then there was no "god" to jump-start
> it in the "first" place.
>
> By the way, no number is "astronomically high": just draw the number 8
> sideways, and you get Infinity...
>
> Patrick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--- In pota@y..., mlccougar@a... wrote:
>
> By the fact that "Ape City", not Central City, is located next to
> the Forbidden City/Zone which is inhabited by mutants, led by
> Mendez, who posses the Alpha-Omega bomb.
>
> This is just a "guess" on your part, so don't throw stones in your
glass
> house.

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> Don't you DARE quote Bill Broyles in this group! That
> - - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@a...>
> To: <pota@y...>
> Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2002 5:17 PM
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: re:Timeline issues
>
>
> > Just watched Apollo 13 on USA and to quote Ed Harris, "Let's not
> > make the problem worse by GUESSING".
> >
> > --- In pota@y..., mlccougar@a... wrote:
> > > My guess is that it's that way because the show didn't get to
stay
> > on long
> > > enough for them too encounter these type of "territorys."
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >

> In Boulle's book it's Ulysse, not UlysseS.

> > For what it's worth, the novelization of "Conquest" (by John

> > less) suggests Breck's city is near San Francisco.
>
> Yeah, and ya know what else... He's right.

>Feel free to dismiss some or all of Patrick's ideas. You think they're
>far fetched? Fair enough. Certainly there are a few that I find too
>implausible to buy into. But let's give it a rest with the constant
>Patrick-bashing. It's becoming tired and cliched, and I thought we'd
>seen the last of it.

>> >that even die-hard conservatives who advocated a firm stance against

>>
>You missed the point completely. This is not a discussion on the pros
>and cons of the Vietnam war or of Communism. There are plenty of
>better places on the internet for that and I would encourage you to
>search for them.
>> You seem like you spend all your spare time making a bunch of 10 page post to

>
>*** In case you hadn't figured it out yet, the POTA films are
>POLITICAL films, which means that a discussion about Politics--whether
>it be of Cold War era or Present Day--is always relevant. And the

>> Get a dictionary and look up the word "conservative". What Zira says about

>
>*** What Zira says about Zaius fits the LIBERAL definition exactly

>I think the point is that liberals or conservatives aren't bad. Both parties
>have their good points. It's just that we tend to associate the opposing
>party the people in it who use it as a platform for power. And only see the
>good ones in the party that we identify with more. Both parties have had
>their share of ring masters who only cared about running the show. Not for
>any common good from either ideological point of view, but for their own
>selfish interests. There are plenty of orangutans in politics, on both
>sides!

>>Part of the magic and brilliance of the first movie is that Wilson's and
>>Serling's script along with Maurice Evan's acting produce a very believable
>>portrayal of a conservative who passionately and sincerely believes in his
>>centuries old dogma, even though the audience knows that his dogma has flaws
>>and his bigotry is wrong.
>
>Wrong. You taking him at face value. Zaius didn't espouse what he believed.
> Not publicly anyway. In fact in the court scene he was talking at cross
>purposes. He had always know about Man. But to admit it in court would have

> -----Original Message-----
> From: veetus@... [veetus@...]
> Sent: Monday, 1 July 2002 17:07
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: What?
>
>
> Landon says, "We can't get back. It's still just a theory". If some
> experiment had proven Hasslein's theory, even if it wasn't to Landon's
> satisfaction, I don't think he would've said that. Besides, Landon is
> supposed to be the optimist. Etc. - - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2002 8:11 AM
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: What?
>
>
> > --- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > > I don't like your (implied) tone here.
> > >
> > > Who knows what they did for the first 6 months?
> > >
> > > And to suggest that they had to be doing what is logical for them to
> > > do is to ignore the fact that there is a whole lot of stuff going on
> > > in the story that makes no sense.
> > >
> > > C'mon yourself Patrick. If they had proven Hasslein's theory, why
> > > don't they ever refer to the fact that they had proven it?
> >
> > *** Taylor: "It's a FACT, Landon; buy it--you'll sleep better."
> > I ask you: on what grounds does Taylor have to declare the "theory" to
> > be "a fact"? There must be SOME experimental evidence which at least
> > does not contradict the theory. I think that this line implies that
> > the theory had been tested, to Taylor's satisfaction if not to
> > Landon's. If Taylor were aware of any experimental data which flatly
> > disproved the theory, he would not be able to be sure of it being
> > anywhere near "a fact". Maybe whatever experiments were done didn't
> > DISPROVE the theory; this would not "prove" the theory to be true--
> > merely that SO FAR the evidence had not ruled it out. To give an
> > example from the "theory" of Evolution: there are all sorts of ways in
> > which the theory could be "proven" false; for instance, if HUMAN
> > remains were to be found in a stratum of pre-Mesozoic rock, then one
> > could not claim anymore that humans ONLY existed after the Age of
> > Dinosaurs. Aside from some clumsy hoaxes, there isn't a shred of
> > evidence placing humans and dinosaurs in the same layer of sedimentary
> > rock; if there was even ONE piece of evidence showing this,
> > evolutionists would have to re-evaluate their ideas regarding their
> > dating methods, etc. So far, the evidence supports the "theory" of
> > Evolution; serious scientists still admit that it is "just" a theory
> > (as Landon says of Hasslein's theory), but it is a theory which is
> > USEFUL because it makes sense of the FACTS, which SO FAR do not
> > contradict the theory.
> > Maybe there were, say, SEVEN specific "tests" of the Hasslein
> > Hypothesis which the ANSA astronauts were given in order to verify
> > that their ship was zipping along as Hasslein predicted it would.
> > Perhaps they only did TWO of the seven tests, finding that those two
> > tests matched the anticipated results so perfectly that any further
> > testing was deemed unnecessary. Landon could STILL argue, later on,
> > that MAYBE the 3rd, or the 5th, or the 6th of the seven tests WOULD
> > have come up differently, thus invalidating the Hasslein Hypothesis.
> > But as far as Taylor was concerned, ENOUGH TESTING HAD BEEN DONE to
> > "prove" the Hasslein Hypothesis to his satisfaction, thus giving him
> > the grounds to refer to it as "a fact". In other words, Taylor knows
> > that Landon is just being stubborn because he doesn't WANT to believe
> > that Hasslein's "theory" is actually a "fact", because with Stewart
> > dead (etc.) he now has NO HOPE of ever begetting children, who could
> > carry on his name, or his memory...
> >
> > Patrick
> >
> > > Again I conclude there is little point in conversation with you
> > > because your beliefs are unshakeable.
> > >
> > > Whether you believe it or not, your scenarios are impaired, just like
> everybody else's, and your "logic" has some very presumptuous
> foundations.
> > >
> > > Michael
> > >
> > > *** ...and there is nothing in the story that suggests that they did
> > > not. And, c'mon! Answer me this: what the hell ELSE did they have to
> > > do during that 6 month period between Liftoff and Hibernation? Don't
> > > you think that they would have had as one of their priorities the
> > > TESTING of "Hasslein's hypothesis"? Christ Almighty! but the success
> > > or failure of that very theory is at the HEART of their mission. I
> > > should think that the most responsible thing for them to do--at the
> > > earliest possible & convenient time--is to do just such a test of
> > > Hasslein's theory, just in case what Hasslein THOUGHT would probably
> > > happen (in accordance with what he'd theorized would happen) was
> > > drastically DIFFERENT from what the astronauts could perceive to be
> > > happening... merely by looking out the damn front window!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo!
> Groups is subject to
>
>
>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Melkor [melkor@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, 2 July 2002 3:22
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: POTA, politics, propaganda, etc
>
>
>
> >> >that even die-hard conservatives who advocated a firm stance against
> Communism did so out of motives that--in their own way--were as
> pure as the
> so-called liberal "good guys". The foundations of Communist
> philosophy are a
> recipe for disaster--for endless class warfare (the
> >>
> >You missed the point completely. This is not a discussion on the pros
> >and cons of the Vietnam war or of Communism. There are plenty of
> >better places on the internet for that and I would encourage you to
> >search for them.
> >> You seem like you spend all your spare time making a bunch of
> 10 page post to
> POTA. But how about looking for some other Yahoo groups or Usenet
> newsgroups and
> start reading them and spreading around some of your ideas to other places
> besides just POTA? I bet that would benefit both you and the group.
> >
> >*** In case you hadn't figured it out yet, the POTA films are
> >POLITICAL films, which means that a discussion about Politics--whether
> >it be of Cold War era or Present Day--is always relevant. And the
>
> The political context from when the films were written is
> relevent. That is
> because satire is harder to understand the farther we get from
> the context in
> which it is written. In the 1960's liberalism was associated
> with anti-war
> pacifism and conservatism was associated with pro-war militerism.
> That's why
> I mentioned the Vietnam War. But whether or not you or I think
> the Vietnam War
> was Good or Bad is irrelevent. A discussion about the "foundations of
> Communist philosopy" is completely irrelevent to POTA. In this
> group it would
> be a long and boring off topic discussion. There are better places on the
> internet for you to talk about that kind of stuff. Lots of
> people go off topic
> once in a while, but it seems like you try to take almost every
> discussion into
> irrelevent stuff about Adolf Hitler or Communist philosopy or
> something. I am
> serious in saying that you would be better off finding some other
> places to
> discuss some of the things that you like to discuss. There are
> almost 100,000
> usenet discussion groups. ISP's typically carry from 10,000 to 50,000
> different newgroups. I don't know how many groups Yahoo has but
> I think there
> are hundreds at least. I am sure that there are places where
> people are happy
> and not bored to carry on big discussions about "the foundations
> of Communist
> philosopy" or Adolf Hitler or whatever other stuff I don't read.
>
>
> >> Get a dictionary and look up the word "conservative". What
> Zira says about
> Zaius -- "He has but one motive. To keep things exactly the way
> they have always
> been" -- fits the definition EXACTLY. Instead of doing that
> you'll post 10
> pages of off topic 1980's style political propaganda which was
> nonsensical right
> from the start. BENEATH and PLANET were written a long time before the
> "conservatives" of the 1980's, and Dr. Zaius EXACTLY fits the
> definition of a
> real conservative. Zaius says NOTHING about the size of
> government, but it is
> obvious that the conservative authoritarian government in POTA is
> too big and
> repressive BECAUSE it is too conservative. (Also true in CONQUEST).
> >
> >*** What Zira says about Zaius fits the LIBERAL definition exactly
>
> What Zira says about Zaius fits THE definition exactly.
>
> conservative [adj] Wishing to keep things as they have been; opposed to
> change: a CONSERVATIVE politician. [The Harcourt Brace Dictionary]
>
> EVERY dictionary has some variation on the above for
> conservative. I didn't
> post it but every dictionary has the opposite definition for
> liberal. I won't
> bother to explain the historical origins of the terms. Now who would have
> thought that every dictionary publisher in the entire world
> throughout history
> have all been "liberals". I guess we can add that idea to your
> greatest hits
> lists along side Pole-Shifted Australia. The political context
> is important
> but you also have to know what a real conservative and a real
> liberal is to
> understand the satire in POTA. Non-sensical propaganda fictions about
> "conservatives" and "liberals" from the 1980's era are completely
> useless in
> trying to understand POTA which was written in the 1960's.
>
>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Melkor [melkor@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, 2 July 2002 6:52
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: POTA, politics, propaganda, etc
>
>
> >>Part of the magic and brilliance of the first movie is that Wilson's and
> >>Serling's script along with Maurice Evan's acting produce a
> very believable
> >>portrayal of a conservative who passionately and sincerely
> believes in his
> >>centuries old dogma, even though the audience knows that his
> dogma has flaws
> >>and his bigotry is wrong.
> >
> >Wrong. You taking him at face value. Zaius didn't espouse what
> he believed.
> > Not publicly anyway. In fact in the court scene he was talking at cross
> >purposes. He had always know about Man. But to admit it in
> court would have
>
> I wasn't refering to the case where Zaius was obviously lying about man's
> intelligence "Man has no understanding..." and lying about
> religion. I was
> refering to the Sacred Scrolls "Beware of the beast man...he will
> murder his
> brother to possess his brother's land...Shun him...". I think
> that Zaius "What
> I know about Man was written long ago by the greatest ape of all, our
> Lawgiver." very sincerely believed in the public part of the
> Sacred Scrolls and
> not just the secret part of the scrolls mentioned in ESCAPE.
> Zaius' source of
> bigotry "I saw nothing in the cave to alter that {The Lawgiver's]
> perception of
> man and I still live by its injunction..." was the centuries old
> dogma in the
> Sacred Scrolls. But when he was forced to deal with Taylor, an
> actual talking
> man, I think Zaius did soften a slight bit from the Lawgiver's
> bigotry at the
> very end.
>

>Just a quick note guys - I don't know the US political system, but I know
>ours and I'll bet our conservatives are liberals and vice-versa when it gets
>them votes - so how could you ever really give a definition of a politician
>other than "says and does what it takes to get votes"?
>
>Just a thought.
>
>Michael

--- In pota@y..., mlccougar@a... wrote:
> "...It's still just a theory..."

>> was the centuries old dogma in the Sacred Scrolls. But when he was forced
>> to deal with Taylor, an actual talking man, I think Zaius did soften a
>> slight bit from the Lawgiver's bigotry at the very end.
>
>I have to disagree there too. I don't think Zaius softened at all. When
>Taylor asks him for help. He says Man is capable of nothing but destruction.
>And Taylor went on to prove him right.

--- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> Unless, of course he does stuff like back room deals with the
Chinese, jail
> or bump off associates, and bone anything that moves. Not
thinking of anyone
> in particular here. But I'm sure a web search with those key word
will turn
> up a name if you need one. Sounds like . . . Clink Tong.

--- In pota@y..., "Melkor" <melkor@m...> wrote:
> I mean at the end of the first movie. Zaius actually seems to
give Taylor
> some friendly advice "Don't look for it Taylor you may not like
what you find"
> and it is unclear but it looks like Zaius lets Taylor go free when
he
> could have caught or shot him. After all his soldiers had all the
time
> in the world to blow up the cave.
>

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 4:10 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: POTA, politics, propaganda, etc

  

was the centuries old dogma in the Sacred Scrolls. But when he was forced to deal with Taylor, an actual talking man, I think Zaius did soften a slight bit from the Lawgiver's bigotry at the very end.

I have to disagree there too.  I don't think Zaius softened at all.  When Taylor asks him for help.  He says Man is capable of nothing but destruction.  And Taylor went on to prove him right.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

----- Original Message -----

From: veetus@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 6:28 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: POTA, politics, propaganda, etc

  Zauis doesn't soften enough to help him in the end, but he does let him go at the end of "Planet". And he's a pussycat for most of "Beneath", courteous to Cornelius and Zira, trying to talk sense to Ursus.

 I read today that Franklin Schaffner was offered "The Godfather" and turned it down because he felt it glamorized the mafia. I wonder if it would've been a big hit if he'd directed it? It probably made more money than all his films combined. Etc.             - - Jeff

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 4:10 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: POTA, politics, propaganda, etc

  

was the centuries old dogma in the Sacred Scrolls. But when he was forced to deal with Taylor, an actual talking man, I think Zaius did soften a slight bit from the Lawgiver's bigotry at the very end.

I have to disagree there too.  I don't think Zaius softened at all.  When Taylor asks him for help.  He says Man is capable of nothing but destruction.  And Taylor went on to prove him right.

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 6:35 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: POTA, politics, propaganda, etc

In a message dated 7/1/02 9:26:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:

I read today that Franklin Schaffner was offered "The Godfather" and turned it down because he felt it glamorized the mafia. I wonder if it would've been a big hit if he'd directed it? It probably made more money than all his films combined. Etc.             - - Jeff

You know a film I often wish Schaffner had directed is "The Omen."  Charlton Heston turned that one down, but how great it would have been if Schaffner had directed, Heston starred, McDowall played the photographer, Kim Hunter the Bille Whitelaw part, and Maurice Evans the Leo McKern role.  It sure would make me like that movie more, plus Goldsmith would have won his Oscar, as he should have, for scoring a Schaffner film.

I also sometimes wonder what it would have been like if Heston had played Patton.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> Hey, I know Cougar doesn't like entertainment news but I've
spotted a new trend that just might get "Apes2" greenlighted. If
sequels weren't bad enough, now they're doubling up. In
September, "Freddy vs. Jason" starts filming. In 2004
comes "Superman and Batman". And Fox is hot for "Alien vs.
Predator". Here's my pitch: "POTAClassic vs. POTA2001". It turns out
Wahlberg arrived on Earth just after Caesar took over (we always
wondered how he could take over with that small revolution. Thade
helped him). So now Wahlly goes back to get Attar and Limbo to kick
some McDowall butt ( They use CG to bring back the beloved thesp).
Either that, or "POTA vs. Adam Sandler".
Etc. - - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: veetus@e...
> To: pota@y...
> Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 6:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: POTA, politics,
propaganda, etc
>
>
> Zauis doesn't soften enough to help him in the end, but he
does let him go at the end of "Planet". And he's a pussycat for most
of "Beneath", courteous to Cornelius and Zira, trying to talk sense
to Ursus.
> I read today that Franklin Schaffner was offered "The
Godfather" and turned it down because he felt it glamorized the
mafia. I wonder if it would've been a big hit if he'd directed it?
It probably made more money than all his films combined.
Etc. - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: LordTZer0@A...
> To: pota@y...
> Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 4:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: POTA, politics,
propaganda, etc
>
>
>
> was the centuries old dogma in the Sacred Scrolls. But when
he was forced to deal with Taylor, an actual talking man, I think
Zaius did soften a slight bit from the Lawgiver's bigotry at the
very end.
>
>
> I have to disagree there too. I don't think Zaius softened at
all. When Taylor asks him for help. He says Man is capable of
nothing but destruction. And Taylor went on to prove him right.
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.

> I also sometimes wonder what it would have been like if Heston had played
> Patton.

>
> --- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> > Hey, I know Cougar doesn't like entertainment news but I've
> spotted a new trend that just might get "Apes2" greenlighted. If
> sequels weren't bad enough, now they're doubling up. In
> September, "Freddy vs. Jason" starts filming. In 2004
> comes "Superman and Batman". And Fox is hot for "Alien vs.
> Predator". Here's my pitch: "POTAClassic vs. POTA2001". It turns

> Wahlberg arrived on Earth just after Caesar took over (we always
> wondered how he could take over with that small revolution. Thade
> helped him). So now Wahlly goes back to get Attar and Limbo to

> some McDowall butt ( They use CG to bring back the beloved thesp).
> Either that, or "POTA vs. Adam Sandler".
> Etc. - - - Jeff
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: veetus@e...
> > To: pota@y...
> > Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 6:28 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: POTA, politics,
> propaganda, etc
> >
> >
> > Zauis doesn't soften enough to help him in the end, but he
> does let him go at the end of "Planet". And he's a pussycat for

> of "Beneath", courteous to Cornelius and Zira, trying to talk

> to Ursus.
> > I read today that Franklin Schaffner was offered "The
> Godfather" and turned it down because he felt it glamorized the
> mafia. I wonder if it would've been a big hit if he'd directed it?
> It probably made more money than all his films combined.
> Etc. - - Jeff
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: LordTZer0@A...
> > To: pota@y...
> > Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 4:10 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: POTA, politics,
> propaganda, etc
> >
> >
> >
> > was the centuries old dogma in the Sacred Scrolls. But

> he was forced to deal with Taylor, an actual talking man, I think
> Zaius did soften a slight bit from the Lawgiver's bigotry at the
> very end.
> >
> >
> > I have to disagree there too. I don't think Zaius softened

> all. When Taylor asks him for help. He says Man is capable of
> nothing but destruction. And Taylor went on to prove him right.
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.

--- In pota@y..., "Jeff & Susan Stringer" <stringe@b...> wrote:
> I'm a big Heston fan, but NO ONE can touch Scott's portrayal of
ol'd
> Blood-N-Guts. The epitome` of George C. Scott's career. Even if he
didn't
> think so. His Scrooge is kickass too...! ;)
> Gristle P.

----- Original Message -----
From: <Haristas@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 10:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Chapter and Vs.


> In a message dated 7/1/02 9:42:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> veetus@... writes:
>
>
> > Hey, I know Cougar doesn't like entertainment news but I've spotted a
new
> > trend that just might get "Apes2" greenlighted. If sequels weren't bad
> > enough, now they're doubling up. In September, "Freddy vs. Jason" starts
> > filming. In 2004 comes "Superman and Batman". And Fox is hot for "Alien
vs.
> > Predator". Here's my pitch: "POTAClassic vs. POTA2001". It turns out
> > Wahlberg arrived on Earth just after Caesar took over (we always
wondered
> > how he could take over with that small revolution. Thade helped him). So
> > now Wahlly goes back to get Attar and Limbo to kick some McDowall butt (
> > They use CG to bring back the beloved thesp). Either that, or "POTA vs.
> > Adam Sandler". Etc. - - - Jeff
> >
> >
>
> Okay, let's have a show of hands here. Who thinks there's going to be an
> APES II, or like me thinks Burton's film was so awful the franchise is
dead?
>
> My gut feeling is it's over. What does your gut tell you?
>
> -- Rory
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 7:04 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Chapter and Vs.

In a message dated 7/1/02 9:42:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:

  Hey, I know Cougar doesn't like entertainment news but I've spotted a new trend that just might get "Apes2" greenlighted. If sequels weren't bad enough, now they're doubling up. In September, "Freddy vs. Jason" starts filming. In 2004 comes "Superman and Batman". And Fox is hot for "Alien vs. Predator". Here's my pitch: "POTAClassic vs. POTA2001". It turns out Wahlberg arrived on Earth just after Caesar took over (we always wondered how he could take over with that small revolution. Thade helped him). So now Wahlly goes back to get Attar and Limbo to kick some McDowall butt ( They use CG to bring back the beloved thesp). Either that, or "POTA vs. Adam Sandler". Etc.                                        - - - Jeff

Okay, let's have a show of hands here.  Who thinks there's going to be an APES II, or like me thinks Burton's film was so awful the franchise is dead?

My gut feeling is it's over.  What does your gut tell you?

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

----- Original Message -----
From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 7:32 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Chapter and Vs.


> How about 'Abbott & Costello on the Planet of the Apes'. Or since
> it's a FOX property 'Die Hard on the Planet of the Apes' with Bruce
> Willis fighting terrorist Apes on Christmas Eve. Or better yet 'Home
> Alone on the Planet of the Apes' where Mackaly Culkin's folks leave
> him home in their rush to the bomb shelter and he has to defend the
> place from Caeser's army.
> >
> > --- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> > > Hey, I know Cougar doesn't like entertainment news but I've
> > spotted a new trend that just might get "Apes2" greenlighted. If
> > sequels weren't bad enough, now they're doubling up. In
> > September, "Freddy vs. Jason" starts filming. In 2004
> > comes "Superman and Batman". And Fox is hot for "Alien vs.
> > Predator". Here's my pitch: "POTAClassic vs. POTA2001". It turns
> out
> > Wahlberg arrived on Earth just after Caesar took over (we always
> > wondered how he could take over with that small revolution. Thade
> > helped him). So now Wahlly goes back to get Attar and Limbo to
> kick
> > some McDowall butt ( They use CG to bring back the beloved thesp).
> > Either that, or "POTA vs. Adam Sandler".
> > Etc. - - - Jeff
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: veetus@e...
> > > To: pota@y...
> > > Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 6:28 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: POTA, politics,
> > propaganda, etc
> > >
> > >
> > > Zauis doesn't soften enough to help him in the end, but he
> > does let him go at the end of "Planet". And he's a pussycat for
> most
> > of "Beneath", courteous to Cornelius and Zira, trying to talk
> sense
> > to Ursus.
> > > I read today that Franklin Schaffner was offered "The
> > Godfather" and turned it down because he felt it glamorized the
> > mafia. I wonder if it would've been a big hit if he'd directed it?
> > It probably made more money than all his films combined.
> > Etc. - - Jeff
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: LordTZer0@A...
> > > To: pota@y...
> > > Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 4:10 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: POTA, politics,
> > propaganda, etc
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > was the centuries old dogma in the Sacred Scrolls. But
> when
> > he was forced to deal with Taylor, an actual talking man, I think
> > Zaius did soften a slight bit from the Lawgiver's bigotry at the
> > very end.
> > >
> > >
> > > I have to disagree there too. I don't think Zaius softened
> at
> > all. When Taylor asks him for help. He says Man is capable of
> > nothing but destruction. And Taylor went on to prove him right.
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > Service.
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > Service.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 7:32 PM
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Chapter and Vs.
>
>
> > How about 'Abbott & Costello on the Planet of the Apes'. Or since
> > it's a FOX property 'Die Hard on the Planet of the Apes' with Bruce
> > Willis fighting terrorist Apes on Christmas Eve. Or better yet 'Home
> > Alone on the Planet of the Apes' where Mackaly Culkin's folks leave
> > him home in their rush to the bomb shelter and he has to defend the
> > place from Caeser's army.
> > >
> > > --- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> > > > Hey, I know Cougar doesn't like entertainment news but I've
> > > spotted a new trend that just might get "Apes2" greenlighted. If
> > > sequels weren't bad enough, now they're doubling up. In
> > > September, "Freddy vs. Jason" starts filming. In 2004
> > > comes "Superman and Batman". And Fox is hot for "Alien vs.
> > > Predator". Here's my pitch: "POTAClassic vs. POTA2001". It turns
> > out
> > > Wahlberg arrived on Earth just after Caesar took over (we always
> > > wondered how he could take over with that small revolution. Thade
> > > helped him). So now Wahlly goes back to get Attar and Limbo to
> > kick
> > > some McDowall butt ( They use CG to bring back the beloved thesp).
> > > Either that, or "POTA vs. Adam Sandler".
> > > Etc. - - - Jeff
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: veetus@e...
> > > > To: pota@y...
> > > > Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 6:28 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: POTA, politics,
> > > propaganda, etc
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Zauis doesn't soften enough to help him in the end, but he
> > > does let him go at the end of "Planet". And he's a pussycat for
> > most
> > > of "Beneath", courteous to Cornelius and Zira, trying to talk
> > sense
> > > to Ursus.
> > > > I read today that Franklin Schaffner was offered "The
> > > Godfather" and turned it down because he felt it glamorized the
> > > mafia. I wonder if it would've been a big hit if he'd directed it?
> > > It probably made more money than all his films combined.
> > > Etc. - - Jeff
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: LordTZer0@A...
> > > > To: pota@y...
> > > > Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 4:10 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: POTA, politics,
> > > propaganda, etc
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > was the centuries old dogma in the Sacred Scrolls. But
> > when
> > > he was forced to deal with Taylor, an actual talking man, I think
> > > Zaius did soften a slight bit from the Lawgiver's bigotry at the
> > > very end.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I have to disagree there too. I don't think Zaius softened
> > at
> > > all. When Taylor asks him for help. He says Man is capable of
> > > nothing but destruction. And Taylor went on to prove him right.
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > > Service.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > > Service.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> In a message dated 7/1/02 9:42:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> veetus@... writes:
>
>
> > Hey, I know Cougar doesn't like entertainment news but I've

> > trend that just might get "Apes2" greenlighted. If sequels

> > enough, now they're doubling up. In September, "Freddy vs. Jason"

> > filming. In 2004 comes "Superman and Batman". And Fox is hot

> > Predator". Here's my pitch: "POTAClassic vs. POTA2001". It turns

> > Wahlberg arrived on Earth just after Caesar took over (we always

> > how he could take over with that small revolution. Thade helped

> > now Wahlly goes back to get Attar and Limbo to kick some McDowall

> > They use CG to bring back the beloved thesp). Either that,

> > Adam Sandler". Etc. - - -

> >
> >
>
> Okay, let's have a show of hands here. Who thinks there's going to

> APES II, or like me thinks Burton's film was so awful the franchise

>
> My gut feeling is it's over. What does your gut tell you?
>
> -- Rory
>

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> Abbott and Costello are dead. Willis says he will NEVER do
another "Die
> Hard" (but where there's a Willis there's a way). Culkin is
finished. Be
> realistic! - - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 5:02 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Chapter and Vs.

 

"Apes" is their "Spiderman" and they know it, they've just got to do it right. Right now they're haggling over price. You watch! Etc.  - - Jeff

That gal on POTA Fanfic claims she's on Zunuck's writing staff for Apes 2 right now!  Who knows if she's for real?

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

> How about 'Abbott & Costello on the Planet of the Apes'. Or since
> it's a FOX property 'Die Hard on the Planet of the Apes' with Bruce
> Willis fighting terrorist Apes on Christmas Eve. Or better

> Alone on the Planet of the Apes' where Mackaly Culkin's folks leave
> him home in their rush to the bomb shelter and he has to defend the
> place from Caeser's army.
> >
> > --- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> > > Hey, I know Cougar doesn't like entertainment news but I've
> > spotted a new trend that just might get "Apes2" greenlighted. If
> > sequels weren't bad enough, now they're doubling up. In
> > September, "Freddy vs. Jason" starts filming. In 2004
> > comes "Superman and Batman". And Fox is hot for "Alien vs.
> > Predator". Here's my pitch: "POTAClassic vs. POTA2001". It turns
> out
> > Wahlberg arrived on Earth just after Caesar took over (we always
> > wondered how he could take over with that small revolution. Thade
> > helped him). So now Wahlly goes back to get Attar and Limbo to
> kick
> > some McDowall butt ( They use CG to bring back the beloved

> > Either that, or "POTA vs. Adam Sandler".
> > Etc. - - - Jeff
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: veetus@e...
> > > To: pota@y...
> > > Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 6:28 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: POTA, politics,
> > propaganda, etc
> > >
> > >
> > > Zauis doesn't soften enough to help him in the end, but he
> > does let him go at the end of "Planet". And he's a pussycat for
> most
> > of "Beneath", courteous to Cornelius and Zira, trying to talk
> sense
> > to Ursus.
> > > I read today that Franklin Schaffner was offered "The
> > Godfather" and turned it down because he felt it glamorized the
> > mafia. I wonder if it would've been a big hit if he'd directed

> > It probably made more money than all his films combined.
> > Etc. - - Jeff
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: LordTZer0@A...
> > > To: pota@y...
> > > Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 4:10 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: POTA, politics,
> > propaganda, etc
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > was the centuries old dogma in the Sacred Scrolls. But
> when
> > he was forced to deal with Taylor, an actual talking man, I think
> > Zaius did soften a slight bit from the Lawgiver's bigotry at the
> > very end.
> > >
> > >
> > > I have to disagree there too. I don't think Zaius softened
> at
> > all. When Taylor asks him for help. He says Man is capable of
> > nothing but destruction. And Taylor went on to prove him right.
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > Service.
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > Service.
>
>
>
>
>

>
>
>

> I USED to want a remake or sequel but don't now. They gave it a try

> HOW many years of talking about it ) and failed as far as I'm

> far as the suits at Fox are concerned it was a financial success,

> s still gold in them thar apes. Scary thing is, whatever crap they

> out, chances are I'll still see it.
> KEN
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: LordTZer0@...
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 5:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Chapter and Vs.
>
>
>
> "Apes" is their "Spiderman" and they know it, they've just got

> right. Right now they're haggling over price. You watch! Etc. - -

>
>
> That gal on POTA Fanfic claims she's on Zunuck's writing staff

> right now! Who knows if she's for real?
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of

>
>

  Yes Michael, I was waiting on a tape from you.  But if you can't do it, that's okay.

Okay, Cornelius dressed up as Mimi, conned Zira into her first lesbian experience, then after getting his eyes and hands full of Zira's breasts, presented his own flat, hairy chest and said, "surprise!!!!"  Which encompasses the practical joke and the breasts that were your requirements for a college flick, but falls as flat as Burton's movie.  Oh well.

>
>Okay, let's have a show of hands here. Who thinks there's going to be an
>APES II, or like me thinks Burton's film was so awful the franchise is dead?

>
>How about 'Abbott & Costello on the Planet of the Apes'. Or since
>it's a FOX property 'Die Hard on the Planet of the Apes' with Bruce
>Willis fighting terrorist Apes on Christmas Eve. Or better yet 'Home
>Alone on the Planet of the Apes' where Mackaly Culkin's folks leave
>him home in their rush to the bomb shelter and he has to defend the
>place from Caeser's army.
>

----- Original Message -----
From: <LordTZer0@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 11:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: POTA, politics, propaganda, etc


> I'm a big Heston fan, but NO ONE can touch Scott's portrayal of ol'd
> Blood-N-Guts. The epitome` of George C. Scott's career. Even if he didn't
> think so.
>
> Hated his Scrooge. I'd rather see the old Black & White one, or Finney
doing
> the musical. But you are right about his Patton. Though it might have
been
> interesting to see someone do it with Patton's high squeaky voice. Not
that
> it would have been better. It wouldn't. Sometimes realism isn't all it's
> cracked up to be. Though it might have been creepier if Dennis Hopper had
> done Frank Booth with helium instead of nitrous as Lynch had originally
> suggested. Ever Hopper wonders anout that. Instead of his voice getting
> lower it gets higher than George Patton's and he say Mommy! Now that's
> creepy!
>
>
>
>
>
>

> Okay, let's have a show of hands here. Who thinks there's going to

> APES II, or like me thinks Burton's film was so awful the franchise

>
> My gut feeling is it's over. What does your gut tell you?

> How about 'Abbott & Costello on the Planet of the Apes'.

> That gal on POTA Fanfic claims she's on Zunuck's writing staff for

> right now! Who knows if she's for real?

> Hi all.. I'm new to the group and was just curious as to if anyone
> has downloaded all 45 data filez for the game Planet of the Apes.

--- In pota@y..., "Melkor" <melkor@m...> wrote:
> I want to see Home Alone IV: Lost in Jurassic Park so we can see
the
> little brat being chased by dinosaurs. :-)
>
>
>

--- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:
>
> > whatever crap they do churn out, chances are I'll still see it.
>
> I'm sure they're counting on it!

  My feeling is yes, sooner or later.  After all, they made "Battle", didn't they?  Although I liked Battle, and admired how they did as much as they did with so little, you can't help but see how inferior it is to the original.  It just depends on when they decide they need it.

Fox won't stop until POTA is a dried out husk.    But here's hoping they'll come up with some magic. (or some talent, that would be nice...)

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 2:07 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: POTA, politics, propaganda, etc

  

Come on, that's WAY off topic. What does "Blue Velvet" have to do with
POTA?

Absolutely nothing.  It's just a tangent from Patton which was directed by POTA's director.  Sorry about that.  It was just a what-if scenario about high squeaky voices.  Now What-If they did a POTA movie, and instead of a tall Epic-classical actor they got some pip-squeak ex-rapper to play the lead . . . oh wait!  They already did that, and we know how well that worked.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 4:55 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Chapter and Vs.

Hey it works for George Lucas!!!!

Yeah, I still can't figure that one out.  They seemed to go downhill since the second one.  Though I thought the new one was better than the last one, they still have a ways to go to get back to that level.  'Bout as far as Apes 2 has to go to redeem itself from the last one.  As long as there aren't any damned Ewoks!  If only they can get that chump Marky Mark to act or just kill his character off.  He acts about as well as that new Skywalker.  That guy couldn't act his way out of a wet paper bag!

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 8:37 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] What is Planet of the Apes????

Anyway, I think my answer to what  is POTA is probably best summarised by my recent response to an on-line 20th C Fox Competition asking me to say in 25 words or less why I deserve to win the prize.  I responded:

BECAUSE I LOVE PLANET OF THE APES SO MUCH THAT I JUST KEEP BUYING THE CRAP YOU GUYS CHURN OUT, EVEN THAT AWFUL BURTON MOVIE.

Hey!  Did you win?  What was the prize?


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

> Anyway, I think my answer to what is POTA is probably best

> recent response to an on-line 20th C Fox Competition asking me to

> words or less why I deserve to win the prize. I responded:
>
> BECAUSE I LOVE PLANET OF THE APES SO MUCH THAT I JUST KEEP BUYING

> YOU GUYS CHURN OUT, EVEN THAT AWFUL BURTON MOVIE.
>
> Hey! Did you win? What was the prize?
>
>