Nope, but it is a Sci-Fi/Action movie. :)

 CheeseGOTAS@... wrote:

In a message dated 10/15/02 8:59:43 PM Central Daylight Time,
thypentacle@... writes:

<< Since nobody else is posting any of these and I finally fixed my DVD
drive, I'll be the first to step up. Not sure if anyone will be able to get
this one but what the hell, here it is... what movie is it from. :) >>

The 'thing' on the right kind of looks like the Enterprise.  Is it from a
Trek movie?

-Joe

Ok, here's a hint: "The daylight can burn you, but the darkness will kill you."

 Haristas@... wrote:

In a message dated 10/16/02 12:14:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, thypentacle@... writes:

--- In pota@y..., mlccougar@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 10/15/2002 11:36:40 PM Central Standard Time,
> Haristas@a... writes:
>
>
> >
> > Now this is a bit much, but I would guess anything this dark
would be
> > CONQUEST.
>
> my guess is battle........

<It's another Yahoo group devoted mostly to the TV series.  It was started by
this little Nazi who, if he doesn't like your opinions, cuts you out of the
group.  I joined for a couple weeks but I couldn't take it after this English
girl who didn't think the TV show was that good got dumped.  Here's a link to
the missing links.>

Rory were you rude to the Nazi?  Not that I'd believe you were, even if you told me so, sweet boy.  There's not much going on over there, but I got the impression that I was the big tv show freak over there (this is new?) and everybody else liked all pota, pretty much.

About that plant... mother-in-law's tongue?  Philodendron?  What?  Did you scare off Mez?  I don't see it.

Dear Eve,

What does a woman do when at the new and improved age of 40, she STILL hangs on to the POTA movies and most particularly the tv show?  To the point that when she FINALLY gets her kids their own tv, they tell her, "now you can watch your monkey movies!".  To the point that she built her very own first website about, surprise, POTA?  Is she having a mid-life crisis, do you think?  (DOn't answer that, I already know that one.)   Not to mention hangs around reading an UNGODLY amount of posts written by people who endlessly debate POTA?  Even when she doesn't really care about the answers?  (SACRILEDGE!)  Or should she just give it up and turn herself in to the nearest mental health authorities?AAAAUUUGGGHHHHH.....

Sadly depressed (and getting more so by the minute)

----- Original Message -----

From: mlccougar@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 10:14 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] POTA Screen Capture

In a message dated 10/15/2002 11:36:40 PM Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

Now this is a bit much, but I would guess anything this dark would be CONQUEST.

my guess is battle........

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

Holy sh*t!! Damn you're good... and correct. Sorry though, I have no cookie to give you. (He says mumbling as he munches down the last one... ;o)

ThyPentacle

 james611102 <JamesA1102@...> wrote:

Nope... I think I made this one way to hard and obscure... it's from the movie Pitch Black. (The scene where the glass in front of the cockpit breaks when they crash-land on the planet with the monsters that rip you to pieces. :o)

 Haristas@... wrote:

In a message dated 10/16/02 12:34:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time, thypentacle@... writes:

--- In pota@y..., thypentacle <thypentacle@y...> wrote:
>
> Holy sh*t!! Damn you're good... and correct. Sorry though, I have
no cookie to give you. (He says mumbling as he munches down the last
one... ;o)
> ThyPentacle
> james611102 <JamesA1102@a...> wrote:No It's the reporters in the
hallway from the Presidential
> Commomission scene in Escape.
>

> In a message dated 10/15/2002 9:09:57 PM Central Standard Time,
> LordTZer0@A... writes:
>
> > Rory frightened off on girl already.
> > But he claims she was a plant, sent to cause decent within the

> >
>
> Should read ONE girl.

> Dear friends,
> This kindness as to my present mood is astounding! What's gotten
> into you guys? Does this have anything to do with the fact that

> a GIRL? Y'all are so sweet.
> So... since you are being kind to me, let's do talk about the tv
> show. Why is it that the make-up and acting is so much better than
> in the original movies?
> Kassidy
> (who is ducking and running now)
>
> PS time to reveal my true name.
> It's Patricia Michelle Tilton :)(waves at Patrick - hi, bro!)

> --- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> > In a message dated 10/15/2002 9:09:57 PM Central Standard Time,
> > LordTZer0@A... writes:
> >
> > > Rory frightened off on girl already.
> > > But he claims she was a plant, sent to cause decent within the
> group.
> > >
> >
> > Should read ONE girl.
>
> *** Should also read DISSENT, not "decent". Bog knows we don't need
> any chelloveck in this group becoming 'decent' all of a sudden.
> That's the trouble with misspellings: when are they the result of
> Dyslexia? or merely poor spelling ability? or when are they done
> intentionally, as in a pun? If you meant "decent" as a pun, then I
> apologize for the correction here. Bog knows that I don't need

> in Australia flogging me over it.
>
> Patrick
>
> P.S. For those who haven't read "A Clockwork Orange" the

> and "chelloveck" mean "God" and "person/fellow" respectively. But
> let's not get all bogged-up here...
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kassidy Rae" <valwp@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 11:26 AM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Zone, Dear Eve


> Dear friends,
> This kindness as to my present mood is astounding! What's gotten
> into you guys? Does this have anything to do with the fact that I'm
> a GIRL? Y'all are so sweet.
> So... since you are being kind to me, let's do talk about the tv
> show. Why is it that the make-up and acting is so much better than
> in the original movies?
> Kassidy
> (who is ducking and running now)
>
> PS time to reveal my true name.
> It's Patricia Michelle Tilton :)(waves at Patrick - hi, bro!)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 5:35 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Moonwatcher (OT)

Hey, Jeff, check out this story I found on Moviepoopshoot.com

Monkey Man

Nine years ago I met Moonwatcher, the monkey who threw the bone into the air in 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY. Soon after, I ran a piece about him in the LOS ANGELES TIMES. Now he's got a book out called MOONWATCHER'S MEMOIR -- A DIARY OF 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY (Carroll and Graf), and in it he offers a stunning revelation, which is that during filming, Moonwatcher was on smack.

That's right, hockey fans. The mime who played that lithe and snarly man-ape with the watchful eyes and bad teeth -- the first crouching biped in Stanley Kubrick's 1968 classic to figure out that bones were good for killing prey and scaring off enemies -- was leading a private life that was closer in spirit to William S. Burroughs' JUNKIE than anything in the writings of ape naturalist Jane Goodhall or anthropologist Desmond Morris.

But that was 35 years ago, and it's been 31 years since Moonwatcher -- who later became a confidante of John Lennon and Yoko One, and later a husband, a father of two and a respected businessman -- kicked horse altogether. He's also been sober since '85 and has turned out pretty well in other respects.

His street name is Dan Richter. He's now 63 and vice-president of the Burbank-based Entertainment Partners, one of the largest payroll companies that service the film industry. He lives in the Los Angeles suburb of Sierra Madre, northeast of Pasadena, and has a couple of grown kids -- William, 22, and Joanclaire, 17. He's a friendly, amusing guy with a relaxed, confessional way of sharing thoughts and telling stories.

Why should anyone care about MOONWATCHER'S MEMOIR with all the other Hollywood tell-alls out there? Epochal significance. I honestly believe that 50 or 100 years from now, more people will have a clear digital recall in their heads of Dan Richter's 2001 footage than those who will know who Meryl Streep or George Clooney or Tobey Maguire were.

Two of Richter's 2001 scenes are burned deeply into the common wood. The one in which Moonwatcher is inspired by the black monolith to use animal bones as a survival tool, to the strains of "Thus Spake Zarathrusta." And Moonwatcher's famous bone-toss into the air, which happens at the end of the 18 minute-long "The Dawn of Man" sequence and results in Kubrick's 4-million-year jump-cut to a shot of a space shuttle.

"It was a breakthrough, I think," Richter says about the physical look of 2001's man-apes. "Up until then, any time a movie tried to fake it, it always looked like a man inside a monkey suit." Having trained as a mime at the American Academy of Dramatic Arts under instructor Paul Curtis, Richter was hired by Kubrick in November, 1966, and stayed with 2001 for more than a year. Richter says he "knew from the time I met Stanley this was going to be special.

The whole project had a feeling of grace behind it." Kubrick, he says, "allowed me to do a great deal of work on casting and research and making it look right. I said to Stanley, the crux of the problem is one of performing, not choreography. We'll never fool the audience into thinking we're not actors - we have to get them to go along with it."

Richter's other qualification was his slimness, a characteristic that all 35 or 40 man-apes cast for the "Dawn of Man" sequence had to possess. Most of his choices came from the Young Generation dancers who were appearing at the time on British TV, and from the ranks of male jockeys, he recalls. Each man-ape also had to be short, the one exception being the 5' 10" Richter -- towering by simian standards. The filming of the "Dawn of Man" sequence, at MGM's Borehamwood Studios outside of London, took a little over one month during the summer of 1967. "Hitting the bones was a big moment," says Richter, referring to the black-monolith awakening scene. "The first time I hit them, I hit the edge of one and it went flipping into the air. That got Stanley really going. He said, 'That's great, can you do that again?' 'Sure,' I said. We did it for Hours. Stanley paid attention to detail." And the famous throwing-of-the-bone sequence "was a problem to shoot because the slow-motion cameras kept breaking down," he recalls.

The bizarre wrinkle in all this was the monkey on the monkey's back. "When Stanley found out he became very involved in trying to help me quit," he says. "But I was a legal addict...I wasn't breaking any laws. I was getting it on prescription from drug stores...and that's what it was. But I've been clean for decades, and I have nothing to hide. I talk to people [with drug problems] all the time about what I went through and tell them if I can kick it, they can too."

MOONWATCHER'S MEMOIR is based on 1500 pages of interview transcripts and is "written in entirely in the present-tense," says Richter. "It's all dialogue, with the idea being to recreate the feeling of being there" during the preparation and making of the film. Richter's life after 2001 until the mid-'80s was marked by ups and downs. He ran John Lennon and Yoko Ono's film operation for four years (FILM NO. 4, FLY) "until they retired into the Dakota." (His next book, which he's already begun to write, will be about his John-and-Yoko experience.) He worked on the 1975 concert film LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, THE ROLLING STONES, and then formed an improvisational theatre, Absolute RealityIn the mid '80s he began designing computer monitoring systems for film production companies and then formed his own company, Production Systems. Richter sold the company in '88 to the West Coast-based Entertainment Partners, which hired him as their VP of Commercial Sales.

The MOONWATCHER'S MEMOIR page is here

. Anyone in the Los Angeles area who wants to say hello to Richter (I recommend it) can catch him at a book signing at Studio City's Bookstar at 12136 Ventura Blvd. on Wednesday, October 30th at 7:30 p.m., and at Barnes and Noble in the old town section of Pasadena (111 W. Colorado Blvd.) on Thursday, November 14th, also at 7:30.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

> This one is easier. :o)
>
>
> ---------------------------------

Yup. Guess that was too easy then... ;o) Anyway, I'm outta cookies... lol

Also, my next one will be harder. I think I'll try zooming in on an object of some kind to see if anyone knows what it is and which movie it's in. Additionally, for some reason the pics look ok on my screen but on your screens they seem too dark... sorry bout that. I'll re-calibrate my monitor color settings to correct the issue.

ThyPentacle

 patrickmichaeltilton <patrickmichaeltilton@...> wrote:

NP, and thanks for the ideas.... my next one will not be so easy.  ;o)

Thy

P.S. If you want to do this stuff you can pick up a like new DVD drive for just a little bit of cash on ebay and I have a copy of Power DVD you can have. (It's the only software I know of that can do screen caps.)

 Haristas@... wrote:

In a message dated 10/16/02 9:26:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, thypentacle@... writes:

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> Patrick, your postulations are nothing less than heresy. You are
the
> Anti-Christ of POTAdom, and I believe YOU are to be shunned, you
walking
> pestilence! Be gone with you!
>
> -- Rory (Chief Defender of the Faith in the High and Mighty's
absence, and
> hater of all things Patrick!)

--- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> Try going here and down loading the image.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/message/23266
>
> Michael
>
> --- "Tim" <apefan23@y...> wrote:
> > well shoot....of course I can't open this...can anybody send it
any
> > other way?
> >
> > tim
> >
> >
> > --- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> > > I found the Zira-O-Lantern in an old post of mine in the Ape
> > Group's
> > > archives. Boy, the old group isn't doing too well. Their
record
> > number of
> > > posts was right after the new movie -- 215. Not too good
for a
> > group that's
> > > supposed to have two more members than this one.
Anyway,
> > this really works.
> > > I made one once, maybe again this year. Just print it out
and
> > put it on the
> > > pumpkin. Then poke holes around the out line to get the
> > shape and carve away
> > > using a commercial pumpkin carving kit. I think the best
effect
> > is achieved
> > > by shaving it down, rather than cutting all the way through,
but
> > it's been a
> > > while. Experiment away! If I do one, I'll post a pic. I'd like
> to
> > see
> > > anyone else's too. Anyway, here's the original.
> > >
> > >
> > > [Unable to display image]
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ ---------------------
> ~-->
> > Sell a Home with Ease!
> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/SrPZMC/kTmEAA/jd3IAA/9_IolB/TM
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> -~->
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> >
> >
> >

 Haristas@... wrote:

In a message dated 10/17/02 3:19:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, thypentacle@... writes:

Ok, what is this, where was it, and which movie is it in? :o)

I think it's one of those wall hanging tapestries in Zira and Cornelius' house in BENEATH.  Maybe the one by the front door.
If not that than one in a TV episode.

-- Rory

Yup, it's from Beneath. It's the tapestry on the far wall on the left above a small table with a picture of Cornelius and Zira on it. Good job. :o)

I'll post another quiz sometime tomorrow.

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 8:37 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] The Lawgiver's Plan for Mankind

In a message dated 10/17/02 2:03:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

Rory recently vehemently disagreed with my take on the "silent
treatment" of the humans, portrayed in PLANET and BENEATH. Rory
thinks that humans had "devolved" and lost their language
through "becoming mere animals" (as in Boulle's novel), whereas I
think that the silence of the humans is the end product of prior
centuries of brutality directed against SPEAKING humans by
intelligent (and fearful & righteously indignant) apes, who were able
to shape the social environment in such a way as to force humans to
adapt to that environment--by not speaking at all, resulting in the
loss of any vocal language, and the deterioration of the no-longer-
used "speech centers" in their brains.

What I 'think,' Patrick, is that the humans' "devolvement" (if there is such a word) is caused by exactly what you think, "that the silence of the humans is the end product of prior centuries of brutality directed against SPEAKING humans by intelligent apes," that is by them being forced out into the jungles to live like animals, be hunted like animals, and die like animals.  After centuries of that I don't find it hard to believe that man would become an animal again.

What you implied, if I read you right, was that by 3978 A.D. the humans didn't speak not because they couldn't but because they wouldn't, and that they still retained enough intellect to have the wits to know that what Taylor had written in the sand in the cage was language that could be read by the apes, and therefore had to be rubbed out.  Now if that's what you meant then YES I vehemently disagree with that.  Why?  Because it's anathema to the Boullian concept of POTA, which is mostly adhered to in the first film.

Patrick, your postulations are nothing less than heresy.  You are the Anti-Christ of POTAdom, and I believe YOU are to be shunned, you walking pestilence!  Be gone with you!

-- Rory (Chief Defender of the Faith in the High and Mighty's absence, and hater of all things Patrick!)

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

Well, no more screen caps for a bit... my DVD drive is not detecting any of the discs now when I insert them... have no idea what's wrong with the damn thing, but I'll try to fix it as soon as I can. You gotta love technology! HA!!  >:-|

On Thursday, October 17, 2002, at 11:58 PM, LordTZer0@... wrote:

> I've been having a few problems with that pic format as well. So I
> converted it to a jpg. Here it is again embedded as well as attached.

----- Original Message -----

From: thypentacle

To: pota

Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 9:06 AM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] DVD down

Well, no more screen caps for a bit... my DVD drive is not detecting any of the discs now when I insert them... have no idea what's wrong with the damn thing, but I'll try to fix it as soon as I can. You gotta love technology! HA!!  >:-|

Thy 'really pissed off' Pentacle

---

--- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:
>
> I've been having a few problems with that pic format as well.
So I converted
> it to a jpg. Here it is again embedded as well as attached.
>
> [Unable to display image]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@...]
> Sent: Thursday, 17 October 2002 16:02
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] The Lawgiver's Plan for Mankind
>
>
> It's time to get back on-topic, I think. This post'll be longer than
> the recent short ones I've put up, so if you don't like 'em lengthy,
> feel free to skip it and ignore me (you know who you are...).
>
> Rory recently vehemently disagreed with my take on the "silent
> treatment" of the humans, portrayed in PLANET and BENEATH. Rory
> thinks that humans had "devolved" and lost their language
> through "becoming mere animals" (as in Boulle's novel), whereas I
> think that the silence of the humans is the end product of prior
> centuries of brutality directed against SPEAKING humans by
> intelligent (and fearful & righteously indignant) apes, who were able
> to shape the social environment in such a way as to force humans to
> adapt to that environment--by not speaking at all, resulting in the
> loss of any vocal language, and the deterioration of the no-longer-
> used "speech centers" in their brains.
>
> This all stems from the past history of the simian civilization,
> which--of course--is only hinted at here and there, partly through
> the archaeological artifacts dug up by Cornelius (and his & Taylor's
> interpretations of them) and also through the text (as quoted by
> Zaius and Cornelius, respectively) of the Sacred Scrolls.
>
> Zaius quotes from "the Thirteenth Scroll": "... and Proteus brought
> the upright beast into the garden, and chained him to a tree, and the
> children did make sport of him."
> Cornelius reads from "the Twenty-Ninth Scroll": (verse 6) "Beware the
> beast Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone among God's primates he
> kills for sport, or lust, or greed. Yea, he will murder his brother
> to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers,
> for he will make a desert of his home--and yours. Shun him! Drive him
> back into his jungle lair, for he is the Harbinger of Death."
>
> Zaius, referencing the 13th Scroll's passage, interprets it as having
> something to do with "the Ancients"--that is, the Apes who lived
> before the time when the Sacred Scrolls were written (1,200 years
> prior to the years 3955/3978 [pick whichever year you wish]). This
> scripture-historical figure, named Proteus, supposedly represents
> those Ancients who once tried to keep humans as household pets,
> before the time of the Lawgiver--since Zaius says "... UNTIL the
> Lawgiver proved that Man could not be tamed."
>
> If we presume that there actually was a person named Proteus (living
> sometime prior to the writing of the Sacred Scrolls circa 2755/2778),
> then he could only have lived between the time when Apes became
> dominant over Man (i.e. after the Nuclear War, which I've deduced
> elsewhere to have probably been in 2006 A.D.) and the time when the
> human-hating Lawgiver wrote the Scrolls, around 2755 A.D. The human
> skeletons in the Cave date back to the time prior to the "carnivorous
> gorillas" in their state of "primitive barbarism" with their "cutting
> tools and arrowheads of quartz", so this "more ancient culture"
> (which "is more advanced" than the Zaius-dominated culture of PLANET)
> with its "knowledge of metallurgy"--which we in the audience know is
> OUR culture, from the late 20th/early 21st centuries--is from the
> same chronological era wherein Zaius refers to Proteus and "the
> Ancients".
>
> This Proteus fellow "chained him [a human, "the upright beast"] to a
> tree," which is what we do with dogs and horses, when we don't want
> them to go running off chasing either cars or mares, respectively. It
> seems reasonable that Zaius could interpret this human-chaining act
> as that of a pet-owner (Proteus) and a pet (the human)... but Zaius
> has an agenda at work when he offers Cornelius this interpretation of
> the passage from the 13th Scroll. Zaius KNOWS that Cornelius is right
> about the Past; in Taylor's words, Zaius "knew it all along, long
> before you [Cornelius] found your Cave, he knew..." Zaius admits as
> much himself, eventually: "And you're right! I have ALWAYS known
> about Man." So, Zaius KNOWS that his interpretation of "SS:13" is a
> bogus one even as he spouts that "scripture" to Cornelius. Zaius is
> not above selectively quoting simian Scripture and giving it a "spin"
> which serves an Agenda: keeping the human race in a state of
> savagery. So, too, did pro-slavery advocates selectively quote the
> Bible to bolster their claim that it wasn't ungodly to enslave
> the "inferior" races.
>
> Zaius is, as Taylor accuses him, the "Guardian of the Terrible
> Secret" concerning the once-dominant technological society of Humans
> predating the luddite Simian civilization. The simian Masses (the
> ordinary citizens) were to be made ignorant about the truth regarding
> Man, and how he had been "superior" (at least, technologically, if
> not morally), and then KEPT ignorant; this sort of on-going
> conspiracy requires that SOMEONE (or, preferably, some group) retain
> the Truth, keeping it alive only amongst those "in-the-know" whilst
> pretending to everybody else that the uninformed opinions held by the
> masses about Man are the truth. This sort of conspiracy, on-going
> throughout the many centuries of the simian culture, would require
> that any and all artifacts of that prior civilization would be
> destroyed--melted down and turned into bullets for the gorilla army,
> perhaps! And really BIG artifacts--like the wrecked skyscrapers
> Ursus' army sees, and the Statue of Liberty--would necessitate that
> entire regions would be made "off-limits" to the ignorant public.
>
> Thus, we have "the greatest ape of all" make his appearance on the
> Timeline: the Lawgiver. It was he who established the "ancient taboo"
> by having "pronounced this whole area deadly". Not only is it a taboo
> for a civilian to "exceed his orders" on his "travel permit" and
> travel into the Forbidden Zone--it is an ecclesiastical crime.
> Cornelius makes reference to beheading as a punishment for
> this "crime", even though Zaius says later that "if [they] are
> convicted of Heresy, the most [they'd] get is two years" of
> imprisonment. Evidently, in past centuries, they'd have gotten their
> heads chopped off--which is what "capital" punishment is: the
> punitive removal of the "caput" (Latin for "head"). Although heretics
> are no longer put to death (as they once had been), there still is a
> death penalty--for Treason, which Zaius says is by hanging. So, when
> Cornelius asks Zira, "Are you trying to get my head chopped off?!",
> it is like somebody nowadays making reference to pre-modern forms of
> punishment, like being tarred-&-feathered, or put in "stocks" (like
> in Puritan times), or guillotined. Things have changed in Ape City
> since "old times"--Doctor Galen makes reference to how "the Quota
> System's been abolished", when Chimpanzees were disenfranchised by
> the ruling Orangutan faction.
>
> The Lawgiver--who himself knew that Humans were once technologically
> brilliant, to a fault--purposely lies about Mankind in his so-
> called "scripture". He paints Mankind as a race of "upright beasts"
> which are used by the Devil to do his evil bidding. I've compared
> this notion to the Biblical tale (in Genesis) of the Serpent in the
> garden, through whom Satan beguiled Eve and Adam into rebellion
> against the will of God. The Serpent is the most obvious "scriptural"
> parallel to the Sacred Scrolls passage, the most obvious example of
> an animal being "used" by a malevolent yet sweet-talking demonic
> spirit. Interestingly enough, the 13th Scroll passage has Proteus
> bringing the "upright beast" (Man) "into the Garden" and chaining him
> to "a Tree". This sounds a lot like the Garden of Eden, and the Tree
> of Knowledge of Good and Evil motif. The name "Proteus", taken from
> Greek mythology, means "first man" (according to Robert Graves, in
> his book "THE GREEK MYTHS"), though the word "man" is only implied in
> the actual name. The choosing of the name "Proteus" for that ancient
> Ape who chained the human to a Tree, seems to suggest that he was
> the "first Ape": the simian "Adam". We have no way of knowing which
> of the three ape species Proteus was--whether chimpanzee, gorilla, or
> orangutan; perhaps the Apes had a strange mythic tale of how
> the "first Ape" was neither a Chimpanzee, Gorilla, or Orangutan, but
> was a "pure Ape" in a state of Innocence (which Zaius would try to re-
> establish by keeping Apes ignorant), and how the three kinds of apes
> were all descended from him through three different bloodlines; this
> would be like how the Biblical authors viewed the "3 races" (of
> Europe, Asia, and Africa) as descended from the 3 sons of Noah
> (Japheth, Shem, and Ham, respectively).
>
> The Lawgiver knew (as Zaius knows) that Man had once had a higher
> civilization, where the technological level gave him the power to
> destroy that civilization. Man's wisdom walks hand-in-hand with his
> idiocy. So, after having turned a Paradise into a Desert, ages ago,
> Man had to be subjugated by the "morally superior" intelligent Apes,
> and it would take an on-going effort to KEEP Mankind humbled. Just as
> the simian Masses had to be made ignorant and then KEPT ignorant
> about the Past, so too did the Humans have to be brought low and then
> kept in that condition. This would require periodic interactions
> between Humans and those Apes who are best equipped to deal with
> potentially dangerous "animals": the Gorillas. Just in case there's a
> band of not-so-savage Humans out there in "his jungle lair" working
> their way back up the ladder of Civilization, the Apes would require
> their armed forces to periodically disrupt the Humans, quelling any
> emergent spark of Culture. This HUNT activity would not be done (at
> least initially) as a "sport", but rather as what is called "culling
> the herd". This would be a vital function of the gorillas--to harass
> the humans out in the forests (and in the Apes' croplands) with the
> ever-present threat of Death. The reason the Apes (who have "learned
> to live in innocence", where the Lawgiver had forbidden them to kill
> each other) keep an Army is to deal with this threat posed by the
> Humans. Humans are said to "kill for sport, or lust, or greed"; the
> gorilla hunters (who Cornelius says, to Lewis Dixon, "hunted humans
> for sport") may make a sport of it in some respects... but the Hunt
> sequence looks more like a military attack. The gorillas don't
> resemble good-ol'-boys out for a bit of sporting fun--their manner of
> dress has the appearance of a uniform. They all dress alike. When the
> audience first saw that scene, it was before they saw that most of
> the other apes dressed in similar garb, with the exception of the
> Minister in his vestments, Julius in his "working-class threads", and
> the President of the Academy in his somewhat more ornate garb. So the
> first impression of the gorilla hunters is that their uniformity of
> dress is military in nature (at least, that's the impression I got).
>
> The hunting of humans is done in order to fulfill the "commandment"
> given by the Lawgiver: "... let [Man] not breed in great numbers, for
> he will make a desert of his home--and yours." The only way to keep
> the "numbers" of humans small is to periodically reduce it--by
> killing them. Zaius would prefer to have them exterminated, but
> evidently that is out of the question; humans, after all, are "among
> God's primates". That is, they were one of the species which were
> the "highest order of mammals" (according to my Oxford dictionary);
> if the simian "God" didn't want any humans around, then He either
> made a mistake in creating them in the first place (and a "god" isn't
> a god if He makes mistakes, after all), or He should have ordered the
> Apes to exterminate the Humans. What might the orthodox religion of
> the Apes think was God's purpose in creating Man? Why did the god of
> the Bible create Serpents? According to the later interpretations of
> Genesis, God had to test Adam's obedience... which required a Devil
> to do the dirty work of Temptation. And the Devil, in order to pull
> off the scheme, had to disguise himself... which required another
> creature in which to conceal himself and through whose mouth his
> deceitful lies could emerge. Perhaps the Ape theologians believe that
> God created Humans so that the Devil could have a vessel through
> which he could test Simian obedience to God's Will.
>
> Since God "created" Humans (as far as Ape religion goes), then it
> would be a sin to "un-create" them, barring any explicit command from
> God to do so. Yet humans would have to be dealt with on a regular
> basis. They had to be kept to a minimal population size ("let him not
> breed in great numbers"), which would require periodic acts of
> organized killing: the Hunts. They had to be shunned. They had to be
> driven away from Simian civilization, back into the jungle to live as
> savages--ever fearful of hearing that shofar-like hunting horn sound
> prior to the onslaught of a gorilla attack. The Lawgiver, who gave
> these "commandments" to the Apes via his pseudo-scripture, knew the
> REAL reason that Humans had to be treated in such a horrific manner:
> the Humans "deserved" such treatment because of how they had abused
> their Intelligence, through creating weapons of mass destruction...
> and then USING them. Their actions had proven their Nature as "a
> warlike creature who gives battle to everything around him... even
> himself". So... they deserve to be mistreated by the Apes. But it
> wouldn't do for the simian Masses to know this real reason, or else
> the "bleeding hearts" amongst the "liberal" faction (the Chimps)
> would protest the treatment of intelligent creatures as mere animals.
> In order to successfully foist this conspiracy on Ape society, it
> required the creation of a religion--a set of dogmatic beliefs
> (a "credo", like the "Apostle's Creed", which Honorius
> calls "Articles of Faith") which tells a mythic tale of Beginnings
> which the very writer KNOWS is not true, yet must be told to serve
> a "higher purpose". And this religious Orthodoxy requires that
> everyone in the society tow-the-line and Believe the doctrines and
> Obey the "authority" of the Priesthood. What happens to those who
> renounce their beliefs, who "apostacize"? Zaius says that "only an
> apostate would flee to the Forbidden Zone." He says it as if IT'S
> HAPPENED BEFORE. When the Lawgiver (and his faction of pretend-
> believers who conspired to subjugate Man) foisted his new religion on
> Apedom, there must have been those who rejected it. And after the
> Lawgiver's "revelation" had been accepted by the majority (probably
> after pogroms against "heretics"), every so often there must have
> cropped up individuals who came across traces of evidence which
> contradicted the official dogmas of "Lawgiverism" and "true
> religion". If that individual persisted in his or her "heresy", then
> a harsh punishment was inflicted: Beheading. In order to escape such
> punishment, the only recourse was to flee somewhere where Apes don't
> go: the Forbidden Zone fits the bill, because the Lawgiver himself
> had declared it off-limits.
>
> And all this happens because the Lawgiver considers Mankind to be so
> prone to destruction that the situation necessitates the subjugation
> of that species... and the enforced ignorance of the Masses. Humans
> weren't just one of many species of beasts... they were especially
> dangerous. Metaphorically speaking, the Devil uses them as pawns in
> his war against God. In private chambers, the Lawgiver--like Zaius,
> centuries later--would "talk heresy" (probably) and admit that his
> religion is a Lie... but a lie which serves a higher purpose. It
> would be "justified racism"--justified, at least, in his view. But
> woe to the poor wretches who are on the receiving end of that harsh
> policy of the pogrom, the "organized massacre" which Humans had to
> endure for hundreds of years.
>
> Patrick Michael Tilton
> EARTH-TIME 10-16-2002
>
> Postscript: Remember those books with titles like "EVERYTHING I
> NEEDED TO KNOW I LEARNED FROM WATCHING 'STAR TREK'"? Well, as "PLANET
> OF THE APES" and its sequels were the foremost formative influences
> in my life, everything (at least, 'much' if not 'most') of what
> I "need" to know--including how to look at the reasons the world is
> the way it is--I got from soaking in the ambience of the "world gone
> insane"... the Planet of the Apes. Through satire and allegory,
> Serling & Wilson & Dehn (etc.) held a funhouse mirror of our own
> world up for us to see ourselves. Ah, Zanuck... thanks for "green-
> lighting" the Schaffner flick--but how could you NOT see the deeper
> levels of meaning that were not-so-hidden in this "adventure" film?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> If someone here doesn't say something interesting soon I'm gonna
read this
> post and comment on it!
>
> I'M SERIOUS!!!
>
> Michael

--- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> If someone here doesn't say something interesting soon I'm gonna
read this
> post and comment on it!
>
> I'M SERIOUS!!!
>
> Michael
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@y...]
> > Sent: Thursday, 17 October 2002 16:02
> > To: pota@y...
> > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] The Lawgiver's Plan for Mankind
> >
> >
> > It's time to get back on-topic, I think. This post'll be longer
than
> > the recent short ones I've put up, so if you don't like 'em
lengthy,
> > feel free to skip it and ignore me (you know who you are...).
> >
> > Rory recently vehemently disagreed with my take on the "silent
> > treatment" of the humans, portrayed in PLANET and BENEATH. Rory
> > thinks that humans had "devolved" and lost their language
> > through "becoming mere animals" (as in Boulle's novel), whereas I
> > think that the silence of the humans is the end product of prior
> > centuries of brutality directed against SPEAKING humans by
> > intelligent (and fearful & righteously indignant) apes, who were
able
> > to shape the social environment in such a way as to force humans
to
> > adapt to that environment--by not speaking at all, resulting in
the
> > loss of any vocal language, and the deterioration of the no-
longer-
> > used "speech centers" in their brains.
> >
> > This all stems from the past history of the simian civilization,
> > which--of course--is only hinted at here and there, partly through
> > the archaeological artifacts dug up by Cornelius (and his &
Taylor's
> > interpretations of them) and also through the text (as quoted by
> > Zaius and Cornelius, respectively) of the Sacred Scrolls.
> >
> > Zaius quotes from "the Thirteenth Scroll": "... and Proteus
brought
> > the upright beast into the garden, and chained him to a tree, and
the
> > children did make sport of him."
> > Cornelius reads from "the Twenty-Ninth Scroll": (verse 6) "Beware
the
> > beast Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone among God's primates
he
> > kills for sport, or lust, or greed. Yea, he will murder his
brother
> > to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers,
> > for he will make a desert of his home--and yours. Shun him! Drive
him
> > back into his jungle lair, for he is the Harbinger of Death."
> >
> > Zaius, referencing the 13th Scroll's passage, interprets it as
having
> > something to do with "the Ancients"--that is, the Apes who lived
> > before the time when the Sacred Scrolls were written (1,200 years
> > prior to the years 3955/3978 [pick whichever year you wish]). This
> > scripture-historical figure, named Proteus, supposedly represents
> > those Ancients who once tried to keep humans as household pets,
> > before the time of the Lawgiver--since Zaius says "... UNTIL the
> > Lawgiver proved that Man could not be tamed."
> >
> > If we presume that there actually was a person named Proteus
(living
> > sometime prior to the writing of the Sacred Scrolls circa
2755/2778),
> > then he could only have lived between the time when Apes became
> > dominant over Man (i.e. after the Nuclear War, which I've deduced
> > elsewhere to have probably been in 2006 A.D.) and the time when
the
> > human-hating Lawgiver wrote the Scrolls, around 2755 A.D. The
human
> > skeletons in the Cave date back to the time prior to
the "carnivorous
> > gorillas" in their state of "primitive barbarism" with
their "cutting
> > tools and arrowheads of quartz", so this "more ancient culture"
> > (which "is more advanced" than the Zaius-dominated culture of
PLANET)
> > with its "knowledge of metallurgy"--which we in the audience know
is
> > OUR culture, from the late 20th/early 21st centuries--is from the
> > same chronological era wherein Zaius refers to Proteus and "the
> > Ancients".
> >
> > This Proteus fellow "chained him [a human, "the upright beast"]
to a
> > tree," which is what we do with dogs and horses, when we don't
want
> > them to go running off chasing either cars or mares,
respectively. It
> > seems reasonable that Zaius could interpret this human-chaining
act
> > as that of a pet-owner (Proteus) and a pet (the human)... but
Zaius
> > has an agenda at work when he offers Cornelius this
interpretation of
> > the passage from the 13th Scroll. Zaius KNOWS that Cornelius is
right
> > about the Past; in Taylor's words, Zaius "knew it all along, long
> > before you [Cornelius] found your Cave, he knew..." Zaius admits
as
> > much himself, eventually: "And you're right! I have ALWAYS known
> > about Man." So, Zaius KNOWS that his interpretation of "SS:13" is
a
> > bogus one even as he spouts that "scripture" to Cornelius. Zaius
is
> > not above selectively quoting simian Scripture and giving it
a "spin"
> > which serves an Agenda: keeping the human race in a state of
> > savagery. So, too, did pro-slavery advocates selectively quote the
> > Bible to bolster their claim that it wasn't ungodly to enslave
> > the "inferior" races.
> >
> > Zaius is, as Taylor accuses him, the "Guardian of the Terrible
> > Secret" concerning the once-dominant technological society of
Humans
> > predating the luddite Simian civilization. The simian Masses (the
> > ordinary citizens) were to be made ignorant about the truth
regarding
> > Man, and how he had been "superior" (at least, technologically, if
> > not morally), and then KEPT ignorant; this sort of on-going
> > conspiracy requires that SOMEONE (or, preferably, some group)
retain
> > the Truth, keeping it alive only amongst those "in-the-know"
whilst
> > pretending to everybody else that the uninformed opinions held by
the
> > masses about Man are the truth. This sort of conspiracy, on-going
> > throughout the many centuries of the simian culture, would require
> > that any and all artifacts of that prior civilization would be
> > destroyed--melted down and turned into bullets for the gorilla
army,
> > perhaps! And really BIG artifacts--like the wrecked skyscrapers
> > Ursus' army sees, and the Statue of Liberty--would necessitate
that
> > entire regions would be made "off-limits" to the ignorant public.
> >
> > Thus, we have "the greatest ape of all" make his appearance on the
> > Timeline: the Lawgiver. It was he who established the "ancient
taboo"
> > by having "pronounced this whole area deadly". Not only is it a
taboo
> > for a civilian to "exceed his orders" on his "travel permit" and
> > travel into the Forbidden Zone--it is an ecclesiastical crime.
> > Cornelius makes reference to beheading as a punishment for
> > this "crime", even though Zaius says later that "if [they] are
> > convicted of Heresy, the most [they'd] get is two years" of
> > imprisonment. Evidently, in past centuries, they'd have gotten
their
> > heads chopped off--which is what "capital" punishment is: the
> > punitive removal of the "caput" (Latin for "head"). Although
heretics
> > are no longer put to death (as they once had been), there still
is a
> > death penalty--for Treason, which Zaius says is by hanging. So,
when
> > Cornelius asks Zira, "Are you trying to get my head chopped
off?!",
> > it is like somebody nowadays making reference to pre-modern forms
of
> > punishment, like being tarred-&-feathered, or put in "stocks"
(like
> > in Puritan times), or guillotined. Things have changed in Ape City
> > since "old times"--Doctor Galen makes reference to how "the Quota
> > System's been abolished", when Chimpanzees were disenfranchised by
> > the ruling Orangutan faction.
> >
> > The Lawgiver--who himself knew that Humans were once
technologically
> > brilliant, to a fault--purposely lies about Mankind in his so-
> > called "scripture". He paints Mankind as a race of "upright
beasts"
> > which are used by the Devil to do his evil bidding. I've compared
> > this notion to the Biblical tale (in Genesis) of the Serpent in
the
> > garden, through whom Satan beguiled Eve and Adam into rebellion
> > against the will of God. The Serpent is the most
obvious "scriptural"
> > parallel to the Sacred Scrolls passage, the most obvious example
of
> > an animal being "used" by a malevolent yet sweet-talking demonic
> > spirit. Interestingly enough, the 13th Scroll passage has Proteus
> > bringing the "upright beast" (Man) "into the Garden" and chaining
him
> > to "a Tree". This sounds a lot like the Garden of Eden, and the
Tree
> > of Knowledge of Good and Evil motif. The name "Proteus", taken
from
> > Greek mythology, means "first man" (according to Robert Graves, in
> > his book "THE GREEK MYTHS"), though the word "man" is only
implied in
> > the actual name. The choosing of the name "Proteus" for that
ancient
> > Ape who chained the human to a Tree, seems to suggest that he was
> > the "first Ape": the simian "Adam". We have no way of knowing
which
> > of the three ape species Proteus was--whether chimpanzee,
gorilla, or
> > orangutan; perhaps the Apes had a strange mythic tale of how
> > the "first Ape" was neither a Chimpanzee, Gorilla, or Orangutan,
but
> > was a "pure Ape" in a state of Innocence (which Zaius would try
to re-
> > establish by keeping Apes ignorant), and how the three kinds of
apes
> > were all descended from him through three different bloodlines;
this
> > would be like how the Biblical authors viewed the "3 races" (of
> > Europe, Asia, and Africa) as descended from the 3 sons of Noah
> > (Japheth, Shem, and Ham, respectively).
> >
> > The Lawgiver knew (as Zaius knows) that Man had once had a higher
> > civilization, where the technological level gave him the power to
> > destroy that civilization. Man's wisdom walks hand-in-hand with
his
> > idiocy. So, after having turned a Paradise into a Desert, ages
ago,
> > Man had to be subjugated by the "morally superior" intelligent
Apes,
> > and it would take an on-going effort to KEEP Mankind humbled.
Just as
> > the simian Masses had to be made ignorant and then KEPT ignorant
> > about the Past, so too did the Humans have to be brought low and
then
> > kept in that condition. This would require periodic interactions
> > between Humans and those Apes who are best equipped to deal with
> > potentially dangerous "animals": the Gorillas. Just in case
there's a
> > band of not-so-savage Humans out there in "his jungle lair"
working
> > their way back up the ladder of Civilization, the Apes would
require
> > their armed forces to periodically disrupt the Humans, quelling
any
> > emergent spark of Culture. This HUNT activity would not be done
(at
> > least initially) as a "sport", but rather as what is
called "culling
> > the herd". This would be a vital function of the gorillas--to
harass
> > the humans out in the forests (and in the Apes' croplands) with
the
> > ever-present threat of Death. The reason the Apes (who
have "learned
> > to live in innocence", where the Lawgiver had forbidden them to
kill
> > each other) keep an Army is to deal with this threat posed by the
> > Humans. Humans are said to "kill for sport, or lust, or greed";
the
> > gorilla hunters (who Cornelius says, to Lewis Dixon, "hunted
humans
> > for sport") may make a sport of it in some respects... but the
Hunt
> > sequence looks more like a military attack. The gorillas don't
> > resemble good-ol'-boys out for a bit of sporting fun--their
manner of
> > dress has the appearance of a uniform. They all dress alike. When
the
> > audience first saw that scene, it was before they saw that most of
> > the other apes dressed in similar garb, with the exception of the
> > Minister in his vestments, Julius in his "working-class threads",
and
> > the President of the Academy in his somewhat more ornate garb. So
the
> > first impression of the gorilla hunters is that their uniformity
of
> > dress is military in nature (at least, that's the impression I
got).
> >
> > The hunting of humans is done in order to fulfill
the "commandment"
> > given by the Lawgiver: "... let [Man] not breed in great numbers,
for
> > he will make a desert of his home--and yours." The only way to
keep
> > the "numbers" of humans small is to periodically reduce it--by
> > killing them. Zaius would prefer to have them exterminated, but
> > evidently that is out of the question; humans, after all,
are "among
> > God's primates". That is, they were one of the species which were
> > the "highest order of mammals" (according to my Oxford
dictionary);
> > if the simian "God" didn't want any humans around, then He either
> > made a mistake in creating them in the first place (and a "god"
isn't
> > a god if He makes mistakes, after all), or He should have ordered
the
> > Apes to exterminate the Humans. What might the orthodox religion
of
> > the Apes think was God's purpose in creating Man? Why did the god
of
> > the Bible create Serpents? According to the later interpretations
of
> > Genesis, God had to test Adam's obedience... which required a
Devil
> > to do the dirty work of Temptation. And the Devil, in order to
pull
> > off the scheme, had to disguise himself... which required another
> > creature in which to conceal himself and through whose mouth his
> > deceitful lies could emerge. Perhaps the Ape theologians believe
that
> > God created Humans so that the Devil could have a vessel through
> > which he could test Simian obedience to God's Will.
> >
> > Since God "created" Humans (as far as Ape religion goes), then it
> > would be a sin to "un-create" them, barring any explicit command
from
> > God to do so. Yet humans would have to be dealt with on a regular
> > basis. They had to be kept to a minimal population size ("let him
not
> > breed in great numbers"), which would require periodic acts of
> > organized killing: the Hunts. They had to be shunned. They had to
be
> > driven away from Simian civilization, back into the jungle to
live as
> > savages--ever fearful of hearing that shofar-like hunting horn
sound
> > prior to the onslaught of a gorilla attack. The Lawgiver, who gave
> > these "commandments" to the Apes via his pseudo-scripture, knew
the
> > REAL reason that Humans had to be treated in such a horrific
manner:
> > the Humans "deserved" such treatment because of how they had
abused
> > their Intelligence, through creating weapons of mass
destruction...
> > and then USING them. Their actions had proven their Nature as "a
> > warlike creature who gives battle to everything around him... even
> > himself". So... they deserve to be mistreated by the Apes. But it
> > wouldn't do for the simian Masses to know this real reason, or
else
> > the "bleeding hearts" amongst the "liberal" faction (the Chimps)
> > would protest the treatment of intelligent creatures as mere
animals.
> > In order to successfully foist this conspiracy on Ape society, it
> > required the creation of a religion--a set of dogmatic beliefs
> > (a "credo", like the "Apostle's Creed", which Honorius
> > calls "Articles of Faith") which tells a mythic tale of Beginnings
> > which the very writer KNOWS is not true, yet must be told to serve
> > a "higher purpose". And this religious Orthodoxy requires that
> > everyone in the society tow-the-line and Believe the doctrines and
> > Obey the "authority" of the Priesthood. What happens to those who
> > renounce their beliefs, who "apostacize"? Zaius says that "only an
> > apostate would flee to the Forbidden Zone." He says it as if IT'S
> > HAPPENED BEFORE. When the Lawgiver (and his faction of pretend-
> > believers who conspired to subjugate Man) foisted his new
religion on
> > Apedom, there must have been those who rejected it. And after the
> > Lawgiver's "revelation" had been accepted by the majority
(probably
> > after pogroms against "heretics"), every so often there must have
> > cropped up individuals who came across traces of evidence which
> > contradicted the official dogmas of "Lawgiverism" and "true
> > religion". If that individual persisted in his or her "heresy",
then
> > a harsh punishment was inflicted: Beheading. In order to escape
such
> > punishment, the only recourse was to flee somewhere where Apes
don't
> > go: the Forbidden Zone fits the bill, because the Lawgiver himself
> > had declared it off-limits.
> >
> > And all this happens because the Lawgiver considers Mankind to be
so
> > prone to destruction that the situation necessitates the
subjugation
> > of that species... and the enforced ignorance of the Masses.
Humans
> > weren't just one of many species of beasts... they were especially
> > dangerous. Metaphorically speaking, the Devil uses them as pawns
in
> > his war against God. In private chambers, the Lawgiver--like
Zaius,
> > centuries later--would "talk heresy" (probably) and admit that his
> > religion is a Lie... but a lie which serves a higher purpose. It
> > would be "justified racism"--justified, at least, in his view. But
> > woe to the poor wretches who are on the receiving end of that
harsh
> > policy of the pogrom, the "organized massacre" which Humans had to
> > endure for hundreds of years.
> >
> > Patrick Michael Tilton
> > EARTH-TIME 10-16-2002
> >
> > Postscript: Remember those books with titles like "EVERYTHING I
> > NEEDED TO KNOW I LEARNED FROM WATCHING 'STAR TREK'"? Well,
as "PLANET
> > OF THE APES" and its sequels were the foremost formative
influences
> > in my life, everything (at least, 'much' if not 'most') of what
> > I "need" to know--including how to look at the reasons the world
is
> > the way it is--I got from soaking in the ambience of the "world
gone
> > insane"... the Planet of the Apes. Through satire and allegory,
> > Serling & Wilson & Dehn (etc.) held a funhouse mirror of our own
> > world up for us to see ourselves. Ah, Zanuck... thanks for "green-
> > lighting" the Schaffner flick--but how could you NOT see the
deeper
> > levels of meaning that were not-so-hidden in this "adventure"
film?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >
> >

On Saturday, October 19, 2002, at 08:14 AM, JamesA1102@... wrote:

> OK can anyone figure out where this is from:

> In a message dated 10/19/02 2:25:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> whitty@c... writes:
>
>
> > If someone here doesn't say something interesting soon I'm gonna read this post and comment on it!
> >
> > I'M SERIOUS!!!
> >
> > Michael
>
> I guess you might as well because things are sure dead around here the last couple days. Maybe with some luck we can have a good fight with Patrick.
>
> Hey Patrick, when you gettin' your own computer already, you menace?!!!
>
> Your ever-lovin' pal,
> Rory

> Read it to your twins it'll help put them to sleep at night. LOL
>
> But seriously, I've been observing this debate and do have a
> question. In the beginning of Planet the humans steal and wreck the
> astronauts' clothes & equipment. Do they do this because they were
> just looking for food or were they trying to protect the astronauts
> from the apes?
>
> --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > If someone here doesn't say something interesting soon I'm gonna
> read this post and comment on it!
> >
> > I'M SERIOUS!!!
> >
> > Michael

> In a message dated 10/19/02 10:47:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
>
> > *** James! You hit the nail on the head. Of COURSE the humans messed-up the astronauts' gear in order to protect them. To make them seem just as de-humanized & de-civilized as they are. The humans weren't looking for food--they had been surreptitiously following Taylor & Pals during the last leg of their journey through the wastelands of the Forbidden Zone--we can see them well before Landon spots the Scarecrows.
> > Kudos on the observation.
> >
> > Patrick
>
> Patrick, WRONG!!!! Go back and read your Boulle! (By the way, the book was better!)
>
> -- Rory

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 10/19/02 9:40:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> sand_hill_school@y... writes:
>
>
> > And, when you've read it, let us know what it said.
> >
> > --Helen
>
> Helen?!! Wow! Here's somebody we haven't heard from for a while.
>
> -- Rory

>
> Pat once jumped off a stack of printouts of his posts, fell, and

> a conclusion.

> The novel is a much better work of art than the 1968 film. If you

> that it's the other way around, you don't know much about art!