OK you have to cut and paste this into your address line to get the
right one.

--- In pota@y..., "james611102" <JamesA1102@a...> wrote:
> http://www.passitaround.com/passit.pd?
> i=295332014&m=2930&rr=y&source=passit999

.htmlClick Here<.html

i also agree...williams has become as boring as John Barry!
altho (american for all though) i listened to the original Star Wars
recently and that's pretty damn fgood stuff...we've just heard the
shit out of it.....listen to it again as if you've never heard it
before....and crank it! (past 11)

tim

--- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:
>
> > Alright, T! I'm not the only one here who thinks Williams is
overrated!
>
> I believe I mentioned it before. But when Williams took over the
Boston Pops
> after Arthur Fiedler died, the orchestra walked out and refused
to play his
> stuff because it was too corny. I don't know if it's true, but the
person
> who told me is a classically trained musician, so he should
know. I like
> some of his stuff, but it is pretty trite. It can evoke the emotions
it
> intends to, but sometimes feels forced or heavy-handed. I
guess the best way
> to express it Williams is overblown, while Goldsmith is subtle.

Patty, calm down!

I've met a few scientologists and they have all been rather fixated
on finding a scientific explanation for everything.

This all falls apart, as you seem to agree, when one attempts to
apply science to religion...they just are not compatible.

I would also argue that Planet of the Apes is not compatible. It is
a story written to make a point (and a profit), not to make
scientific sense.

If ever I write something you don't understand, just respond
with "what do you mean ny this?"...you don't have to go to the
trouble of re-telling your whole life story (again!).

Michael

--- "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...> wrote:

> --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > No, where do you draw this conclusion from?
> >
> > Michael
>
> *** YOU'RE the one who brought up Scientology. What the smeg does
> THAT have to do with what we were arguing about?
> I drew that conclusion because I, in my posting, had brought up the
> works of Isaac Asimov... and NOT the works of any other SF writer,
> like L. Ron Hubbard. Your question regarding Scientology was the

Non

> Sequitor to end all Non Sequitors... and, in trying to come up with

a

> reason why you might toss that one outta left field, I thought to
> myself, "Hmmm... maybe Mikey has mistaken Asimov for Hubbard--
> another 'Golden Age of SF' author... Maybe Mikey thinks it was

Asimov

> who wrote "DIANETICS" and invented Scientology, thinking that my
> citing of Asimov's written SF works makes me a fan of 'his'
> Scientology, too..."
> Making sense of Dehn's flubs is EASY compared to making sense out

of

> your nonsensical reference to Scientology. So, again, I'll ask you:
> What the f*** are you babblin' about? What the f*** does

Scientology

> have to do with anything we were dueling over?
>
> Patrick
>
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@y...]
> > > Sent: Friday, 1 November 2002 7:35
> > > To: pota@y...
> > > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] The Mother of all ships...
> >
> > >
> > > As for this "scientologist" stuff... what the f*** are you
> babblin' about? Are you, perhaps, confusing Isaac Asimov with L.

Ron

> Hubbard?
>
>
> ------------------------ ---------------------

~-->

> Sell a Home with Ease!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/SrPZMC/kTmEAA/jd3IAA/9_IolB/TM
> --------------------------------------------------------------------

-~->

>
>
>
>

>
>
>

Everything is upside-down here anyway....

Michael

--- "james611102" <JamesA1102@...> wrote:

> There's no north or south indication on the map. I'm so confused.

It

> must be sideways.
>
> --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > This is it. I got my 4 year old to draw it up for you.
> >
> > http://users.cyberone.com.au/whitty/Map.jpg
> >
> > Michael

Well how in hell did this upside-down civilisation get started?

--- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> Everything is upside-down here anyway....
>
> Michael
>

yes...barry's Bond scores were great but lately from The Deep
and King Kong to Dances With Wolves they all sound exactly the
same......

I'd also make room for John Barry: his

> Bond scores alone helped make them as effective as they

were.

>
> Patrick

Well, first you take a whole bunch of British convicts, throw them on
ships and turn a continent into a rather large jail......

Michael

--- "james611102" <JamesA1102@...> wrote:

> Well how in hell did this upside-down civilisation get started?
>
> --- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > Everything is upside-down here anyway....
> >
> > Michael

Is this before or after the mothership lands and renames it New
America?

--- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> Well, first you take a whole bunch of British convicts, throw them
on
> ships and turn a continent into a rather large jail......
>
> Michael
>

Are you poking fun at Patty?

Michael

--- "james611102" <JamesA1102@...> wrote:

> Is this before or after the mothership lands and renames it New
> America?
>
> --- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > Well, first you take a whole bunch of British convicts, throw

them

> on
> > ships and turn a continent into a rather large jail......
> >
> > Michael

Who? Me? Nah!

--- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> Are you poking fun at Patty?
>
> Michael
>

.htmlIn a message dated 10/31/2002 4:52:17 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

The cocaine is taking Patty over - he is transforming into a god (in
his own mind).

Michael

That'd be a "deity" in this case... God forbid anyone call him anything lower than that... He might have to write an essay on the differences between the two and though they really are the same thing, a deity would be oh so intellectually superior sounding...<.html

Amen, brother. Glad you finally saw the light. Now how do we convince
Rory? - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 3:05 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] (unknown)


> http://www.passitaround.com/passit.pd?
> i=295332014&m=2930&rr=y&source=passit999
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Ok, Tim. What composer do you like? - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim" <apefan23@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 3:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Top 40 Film Composers (OT)


> yes...barry's Bond scores were great but lately from The Deep
> and King Kong to Dances With Wolves they all sound exactly the
> same......
>
> I'd also make room for John Barry: his
> > Bond scores alone helped make them as effective as they
> were.
> >
> > Patrick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html
Oh, well... it beats making a dumb-ass comment.
Who in this group cares about you "beating" on yourself... Keep that to yourself...
Patrick Michael Tilton
EARTH-TIME 10-31-2002

(Haven't used the full version in a while...)

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 10/31/2002 4:47:45 PM Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

Hmmm... lemme guess... you use "Mlccougar" because your REAL name is
no longer used, due to you being in the Witless Protection Program,
right? Oh NO! I just made a smart-ass comment, and I didn't keep it
to myself!

I am NOT the only one in this group that uses the SN only... Check your messages a little closer before you make allegations that are not true...

And what about you being in the Dic*less Protection Program? Why would you needlessly share your personal problems with this egroup?<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: JamesA1102@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 3:20 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] OK this one will work!

Click Here

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

You can hurl a few insults at me if it would make you feel better.

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> I guess this is off-topic, since I'm not hurling an insult at
anybody. But I learned "Apes" TV director John Meredyth Lucas died
Oct. 19 at age 83. OK, he directed the worst episode, "Up Above the
World So High" but every death diminishes me. He also did episodes
of "Star Trek" (original) , Serling's "Night Gallery", "$ 6 Million
Man" and the series POTA was often compared to, "The Fugitive". RIP,
sir. - - Jeff

.htmlI don't remember if this was ever posted here in the group... Sure looks like this poster was definitely inspired by Planet of the Apes...

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 10/31/02 7:00:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

Click Here

jamesaquila@...


This your "other" e-mail adress, James?<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 10/31/02 9:22:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

  Amen, brother. Glad you finally saw the light. Now how do we convince
Rory? - - - Jeff

Convince me of what?!!

-- Confused<.html

Finally got it.

Yes, that's very.

I can't read the dates on it - what are they?

Michael

--- mlccougar@... wrote:

> I don't remember if this was ever posted here in the group... Sure

looks like

> this poster was definitely inspired by Planet of the Apes...
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 8:53 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] (unknown)

In a message dated 10/31/02 9:22:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

  Amen, brother. Glad you finally saw the light. Now how do we convince
Rory? - - - Jeff

Convince me of what?!!

-- Confused

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

Well, first you take a whole bunch of British convicts, throw them on
ships and turn a continent into a rather large jail......

Michae

l

Oh, you come from the land down under!
You know when you think about it, it explains a lot.
Like why they won't let them carry guns there.
<.html

.html
You should have tried the periodicals section at the library.  They probably have Playboy on microfiche.

In case no one mentioned it, Scrubs had an Apes reference.  A guy in a gorilla suit knocked the main character down, and he said, Keep your hands off me you damned dirty ape!<.html

Yes it's my business email. Good thing you posted it for anyone on
the board that may have missed it.

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
>
>
> This your "other" e-mail adress, James?

.htmlIn a message dated 11/1/02 7:39:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

Yes it's my business email. Good thing you posted it for anyone on
the board that may have missed it.

Okay!  Everybody spam James at work!<.html

Sure and I'll post your name and address on a Haitian BB offering
free room and board.

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> Okay! Everybody spam James at work!

.htmlIn a message dated 11/1/02 10:10:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

Sure and I'll post your name and address on a Haitian BB offering
free room and board.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!<.html

<I guess this is off-topic, since I'm not hurling an insult at anybody. But I learned "Apes" TV director John Meredyth Lucas died Oct. 19 at age 83. OK, he directed the worst episode, "Up Above the World So High" but every death diminishes me. He also did episodes of "Star Trek" (original) , Serling's "Night Gallery", "$ 6 Million Man" and the series POTA was often compared to, "The Fugitive". RIP, sir. - - Jeff>

Hi Goob, you really think "Up Above" was worse than Tomorrow's Tide?

Love,

.htmlIn a message dated 11/1/02 1:53:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, valwp@... writes:

Hi Goob, you really think "Up Above" was worse than Tomorrow's Tide?

Love,

kassidy

Shut up, Kassidy!  Jay Robinson as Bandor in "Tomorrow's Tide" makes that a must-see episode of the series.  Have you no loyalty?  You should be stripped of your site!

Or maybe you should just be stripped!

-- Rory<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 7:00 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] re: Up Above director

In a message dated 11/1/02 1:53:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, valwp@... writes:

Hi Goob, you really think "Up Above" was worse than Tomorrow's Tide?

Love,

kassidy

Shut up, Kassidy!  Jay Robinson as Bandor in "Tomorrow's Tide" makes that a must-see episode of the series.  Have you no loyalty?  You should be stripped of your site!

Or maybe you should just be stripped!

-- Rory
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/1/02 3:33:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, ktaylor@... writes:

Getting a little Frisky eh, Rory?

You know there are sites dedicated to that sort of thing..or so they tell me.
Although by the sounds of it, you don't need to visit such sites as with such smooth lines like that, you're obviously quite the ladies man.


Taylor, I also think you should be stripped!  What do you think about that?  Stripped and taken on one of those classic Australian walkabouts -- on a lease!  Scare the hell out of all the aborigines!

Now Kassidy is a big girl and has probably been around the block more times than you have, Taylor, so stop playing Sir Walter Raleigh and climb back into your hole, otherwise I'll ask my friend Michael Whitty to go over to your house and sit on your head.  He'll do it to or else he knows it's no "Simpson" tapes for him!

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

-- Rory the devil!<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/1/02 4:31:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

I refuse to sit on his head.  Last time I did, he put the tongue in.

And don't forget he is one of the few surviving humans who might have the power to influence Fox to dig out classic POTA deleted scenes from the vaults.

One should revere such persons.

Michael the Large


That reminds me. . . . We need to start organizing a massive write in campaign to get the PLANET 5-Star Edition DVD we want, and hopefully next year. 

Mike, what's in your list again and, Cougar, what are those Fox addresses?

I need this weekend to compose a really good letter to Fox.

-- Rory<.html

I know you didn't tell me to shut up, Rory, you little asswipe.
Bandor smandor. What about the naked men? Ah, wait, I forgot. It's
Jeffy that likes those.

No, really what about Roscoe Lee Browne? I liked him better. But
then I can't take Mr. Robinson's WHINY ass tones. And what about
that God-forsaken shark? What about that idiot lying in the
cave, "I'm dead, I'm dead"!!!!!!! I was with Galen on that one. If
he wants to be dead, PLEASE! let him be dead.

Kassidy

Go Val!!!

--- In pota@y..., "Kassidy Rae" <valwp@y...> wrote:
> I know you didn't tell me to shut up, Rory, you little asswipe.
> Bandor smandor. What about the naked men? Ah, wait, I forgot.
It's
> Jeffy that likes those.
>
> No, really what about Roscoe Lee Browne? I liked him better. But
> then I can't take Mr. Robinson's WHINY ass tones. And what about
> that God-forsaken shark? What about that idiot lying in the
> cave, "I'm dead, I'm dead"!!!!!!! I was with Galen on that one.
If
> he wants to be dead, PLEASE! let him be dead.
>
> Kassidy

.htmlIn a message dated 10/31/2002 4:27:04 PM Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

I'd also make room for John Barry: his
Bond scores alone helped make them as effective as they were.

I agree with you there.  I loved when Connery came back as Bon in Never Say Never, but with out the theme music from the Brocoli films, it lost ALOT of its Bond feel.  I'd spell it as two words, but it didn't lost that much.

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/1/02 5:19:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, valwp@... writes:

I know you didn't tell me to shut up, Rory, you little asswipe. 

I SAID SHUT UP!!!<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 10/31/2002 4:36:08 PM Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

Thanks, T, for implying that I'm one of "the wisest men".

Well, maybe not wise, but a least a wiseass.
But a well very read wiseass!

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 10/31/2002 4:36:20 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

Is Patricia your girlfriend or something?

Michael

Hey, I'm not from the Land Down Under!
So what if Pat likes South Park.
I like it too.
Patrick Stewart is a Bevis and Butthead fan.
I like that too.
I don't just go for the dry highbrow stuff.

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/1/2002 3:58:26 PM Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

Mike, what's in your list again and, Cougar, what are those Fox addresses?

I will get those addresses posted as soon as I dig them out... <.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Kassidy Rae

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 10:51 AM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] re: Up Above director

<I guess this is off-topic, since I'm not hurling an insult at anybody. But I learned "Apes" TV director John Meredyth Lucas died Oct. 19 at age 83. OK, he directed the worst episode, "Up Above the World So High" but every death diminishes me. He also did episodes of "Star Trek" (original) , Serling's "Night Gallery", "$ 6 Million Man" and the series POTA was often compared to, "The Fugitive". RIP, sir. - - Jeff>

Hi Goob, you really think "Up Above" was worse than Tomorrow's Tide?

Love,

kassidy

---

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 1:57 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Down Below director

In a message dated 11/1/02 4:31:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

I refuse to sit on his head.  Last time I did, he put the tongue in.

And don't forget he is one of the few surviving humans who might have the power to influence Fox to dig out classic POTA deleted scenes from the vaults.

One should revere such persons.

Michael the Large

That reminds me. . . . We need to start organizing a massive write in campaign to get the PLANET 5-Star Edition DVD we want, and hopefully next year. 

Mike, what's in your list again and, Cougar, what are those Fox addresses?

I need this weekend to compose a really good letter to Fox.

-- Rory
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

I thought the "I'm dead" guy was hilarious. And I have a soft spot for
Roscoe Lee Browne because of "Soap". Hey, can anyone tell me which other two
actors were in both POTA and "Soap"? Eric Greene is a fan of both too. The
shark was funny too. If it's a bad episode then the mark of quality is how
funny it is. - - - P.S. B.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kassidy Rae" <valwp@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 2:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] re: Up Above director


> I know you didn't tell me to shut up, Rory, you little asswipe.
> Bandor smandor. What about the naked men? Ah, wait, I forgot. It's
> Jeffy that likes those.
>
> No, really what about Roscoe Lee Browne? I liked him better. But
> then I can't take Mr. Robinson's WHINY ass tones. And what about
> that God-forsaken shark? What about that idiot lying in the
> cave, "I'm dead, I'm dead"!!!!!!! I was with Galen on that one. If
> he wants to be dead, PLEASE! let him be dead.
>
> Kassidy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: mlccougar@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 6:36 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Fox addresses

In a message dated 11/1/2002 3:58:26 PM Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

Mike, what's in your list again and, Cougar, what are those Fox addresses?

I will get those addresses posted as soon as I dig them out...
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

<.html

Gordon Jump and Gregory Sierra.

ABMAC

On Friday, November 1, 2002, at 09:06 PM, <veetus@...> wrote:

> Hey, can anyone tell me which other two
> actors were in both POTA and "Soap"?

.htmlIn a message dated 11/1/2002 8:58:02 PM Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

 "Up Above" and "Tomorrow's Tide" are the bottom of the barrel (at least to me; opinions will vary) but I liked the idea of a fishing village and thought it was more appropriate to the series than hang gliding.

I agree with you here... Well, I like the idea of an Enforced Labor camp more than the idea of a fishing village itself. The idea of the Apes keeping villages of peasant humans to do certain tasks is not a bad one...

And the idea of a hang glider sucked... It was poorly executed, particularly because that human "inventor" was (in my opinion) too smart... How the Apes didn't get rid of him long before then is anyone's guess... Had they had the fugitives trapped up on mountainous area, and below were the gorillas, and the three had no other way to escape "but" flight, that mighta been a little better... (Of course then you'd have the question of where they'd get the fabric and the tools, etc. to build one...)

For me, it's still a toss up between "Up Above..." and "The Horse Race" as the two worst of the series... Both are poor scripts and should have been rejected, or very much rewritten. Both are (in my opinion) too "cartoonish"... "The Interrogation" is also somewhat "cartoonish" at the end during the escape from the hospital, but other than that it's not bad...<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/1/2002 8:38:13 PM Central Standard Time, mlccougar@... writes:

Mike, what's in your list again and, Cougar, what are those Fox addresses?

Ok, here are all three of them that I have:

Michael Dunn, Exec. VP. Mktg. & Sales
20th Century Fox Home Entertainment Inc.
2121 Avenue of the Stars, 25th floor
Los Angeles, California
                                               90067-5010

Fox Home Entertainment
P.O. Box 900
Beverly Hills, California
                             90213

Fox Consumer Video
P.O. Box 7849
Torrance, California
                       90504

And while you're in your writing frenzy, why not send a letter or two off to:

Dark Horse Comics
10956 SE Main
Milwaukie, Oregon
                    97222

Granted, I never received any reply from them by either email or postal mail, but I have written to them both ways to request that they do a line of comics based on the Classic Apes series...<.html

Right you are, sir. And both Gregory Sierra and James Gregory (of
"Beneath") were regulars on "Barney Miller". - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony B. McElveen" <abmac@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] re: Up Above director


> Gordon Jump and Gregory Sierra.
>
> ABMAC
>
> On Friday, November 1, 2002, at 09:06 PM, <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> > Hey, can anyone tell me which other two
> > actors were in both POTA and "Soap"?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: mlccougar@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 7:35 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] re: Up Above director

In a message dated 11/1/2002 8:58:02 PM Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

 "Up Above" and "Tomorrow's Tide" are the bottom of the barrel (at least to me; opinions will vary) but I liked the idea of a fishing village and thought it was more appropriate to the series than hang gliding.

I agree with you here... Well, I like the idea of an Enforced Labor camp more than the idea of a fishing village itself. The idea of the Apes keeping villages of peasant humans to do certain tasks is not a bad one...

And the idea of a hang glider sucked... It was poorly executed, particularly because that human "inventor" was (in my opinion) too smart... How the Apes didn't get rid of him long before then is anyone's guess... Had they had the fugitives trapped up on mountainous area, and below were the gorillas, and the three had no other way to escape "but" flight, that mighta been a little better... (Of course then you'd have the question of where they'd get the fabric and the tools, etc. to build one...)

For me, it's still a toss up between "Up Above..." and "The Horse Race" as the two worst of the series... Both are poor scripts and should have been rejected, or very much rewritten. Both are (in my opinion) too "cartoonish"... "The Interrogation" is also somewhat "cartoonish" at the end during the escape from the hospital, but other than that it's not bad...

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 10/31/2002 5:06:12 PM Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

What the smeg does
THAT have to do with what we were arguing about?

Nice Red Dwarf reference.
Patrick Stewart is a fan of that show to.
I seem to know a lot about Patrick Stewart.
Too bad I'm not much a a fan of his.
He does too many Turner movies.
Where over acting is appreciated.
<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/1/2002 10:14:54 PM Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

Right you are, sir. And both Gregory Sierra and James Gregory (of
"Beneath") were regulars on "Barney Miller". - - - Jeff

Gregory Sierra was also on Sanford and Son...<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/1/2002 10:15:40 PM Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

"The Interrogation" could have been one of the best if not for the ending (and the boring parents). - - - Jeff

EXACTLY!   
<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/1/2002 4:19:44 PM Central Standard Time, valwp@... writes:

But then I can't take Mr. Robinson's WHINY ass tones.

Go then!  Into you Kingdom!

<.html

Attachments :

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: Haristas@... [Haristas@...]
Sent: Saturday, 2 November 2002 8:57
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Down Below director

In a message dated 11/1/02 4:31:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

I refuse to sit on his head.  Last time I did, he put the tongue in.

And don't forget he is one of the few surviving humans who might have the power to influence Fox to dig out classic POTA deleted scenes from the vaults.

One should revere such persons.

Michael the Large

That reminds me. . . . We need to start organizing a massive write in campaign to get the PLANET 5-Star Edition DVD we want, and hopefully next year. 

Mike, what's in your list again and, Cougar, what are those Fox addresses?

I need this weekend to compose a really good letter to Fox.

-- Rory
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Michael Whitty

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 3:28 AM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] 5 Star Edition

Funny you should mention...

 

I have just bought the Spiderman DVD.  In Aus, there is a 2-disc and a 4-disc set (I only have the 2-disc so far).

 

What a piece of art!

 

It goes beyond the movie and deals with Spiderman overall.  Nobody was afraid of "confusing" the fan with the "classic" references.  There is even a gallery where you can go year by year and read about the main issues of the comics released.  This is what I want for Planet.  Click on the Comic cover and get a run down.

 

Anyhoo, here's what the group wanted when we compiled the list...feel free to add to it everyone.

 

Michael

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Haristas@... [Haristas@...]
Sent: Saturday, 2 November 2002 8:57
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Down Below director

In a message dated 11/1/02 4:31:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

I refuse to sit on his head.  Last time I did, he put the tongue in.

And don't forget he is one of the few surviving humans who might have the power to influence Fox to dig out classic POTA deleted scenes from the vaults.

One should revere such persons.

Michael the Large

That reminds me. . . . We need to start organizing a massive write in campaign to get the PLANET 5-Star Edition DVD we want, and hopefully next year. 

Mike, what's in your list again and, Cougar, what are those Fox addresses?

I need this weekend to compose a really good letter to Fox.

-- Rory
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:

> I thought the "I'm dead" guy was hilarious. And I have a soft

spot for Roscoe Lee Browne because of "Soap". The shark was funny
too. If it's a bad episode then the mark of quality is how

> funny it is. - - - P.S. B.

Actually I agree with all of this. Did you like "Attack of the 50
foot Woman," Goob? I always loved that. Especially that impossibly
large arm hanging out in the house.

But anyway, back to POTA, I liked Carsia on "Up Above", but Frank
Aletter (sp?)was boring.

BUT I liked Galen's parents in Interrogation. Gotta agree with you
about the ending, though.

And finally, I didn't think "The Horse Race" was the worst. I'd put
it somewhere in the middle.

As for Rory, you are dead to me, just dead.

Kassidy

.htmlIn a message dated 11/1/02 8:52:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

I'd also make room for John Barry: his
Bond scores alone helped make them as effective as they were.

I agree with you there.  I loved when Connery came back as Bon in Never Say Never, but with out the theme music from the Brocoli films, it lost A LOT of its Bond feel.  I'd spell it as two words, but it didn't lost that much.


HA! HA!   (I agree by the way, and in fact the Bond films haven't been the same at all since Barry stopped doing the scores.

My favorite Bond score:  You Only Live Twice

Kassidy, my secret girlfriend, loves that one too.

-- Rory O'Kassidy<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/2/02 8:49:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, valwp@... writes:

As for Rory, you are dead to me, just dead.

Kassidy

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!   How will I go on?  I'm going to have to kill myself!<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/1/02 10:00:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

I have a feeling it's too late. I get the feeling it will be unveiled soon after 2003 kicks in. Then again, the Special ED of "All That Jazz" has been MIA for a while. - - - Jeff

I have a feeling Fox hasn't even started work on it and that the rumor of a 5 Star Edition of PLANET in '93 was false.  I repeat, the rumor was false.  (Or was that "The vision was false"?)

As for Kassidy, she's just breathing to me, just breathing.

-- Rory<.html

As for Kassidy, she's just breathing to me, just breathing.

-- Rory

Laugh, clown, laugh. You'll miss me when I'm gone.

They all do.

Kassiophelia

.htmlIn a message dated 11/1/02 10:05:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

  I thought the "I'm dead" guy was hilarious. And I have a soft spot for
Roscoe Lee Browne because of "Soap". Hey, can anyone tell me which other two
actors were in both POTA and "Soap"? Eric Greene is a fan of both too. The
shark was funny too. If it's a bad episode then the mark of quality is how
funny it is. - - - P.S. B.

I'm not up on my SOAP trivia.  Please do tell.

For me what's most hilarious in the show is that one fat gorilla with the scrunched up face.  He always walks around stooped over holding his hands up to his chest.  Even when he has a rifle he holds up at chest level.  I wonder who it was played him?  The guy obviously never saw PLANET or BENEATH to know what the proper posture for a gorilla was.  This guy always was scrunching up his face, so I think he thought his was acting like an ape better than most, BUT HE WAS AWFUL!   Does anybody else know who I'm talking about?

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/1/02 10:05:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

If it's a bad episode then the mark of quality is how funny it is. - - - P.S. B.

I remember when the show original aired, the episode where they have a fight in the ape hospital and there are gorillas lying in bed with broken legs and they get there legs knocked around in the fights and grimaces in pain.  It was like a Looney Tune cartoon.  The first time I saw it I was rolling on the floor in laughter.  Anybody know the scene I'm talking about?

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/1/02 10:12:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

  The Nov. 8 issue of "Entertainment Weekly" has an article on upcoming sequels and the whys. It says there currently no plans for an "Apes 2" and quotes Fox president Hutch Parker: "What astounds me is that that was one of the most profitable films we've had in the last 5 years and yet the perception is that it was a failure". Boy, those execs are swift, eh? But what do you expect from a guy named Hutch? - - Jeff

Amazing, O High Potentate!   What a sad, cynical laugh I'm having! It's all money with these guys.  If it makes money, it's good, no matter how bad it is.

I think the reason there hasn't been an announcement of an APES 2 yet is because Fox has a real problem to face.  How do they make a sequel that's better than the first one -- because it's going to HAVE to be better -- and do it for less money?  It's almost an impossible situation, and you know these guys aren't that bright!

Maurice Evans played a guy named Hutch in "Rosemary's Baby."  Anybody else here seen that movie?  It's pretty good.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/1/02 10:17:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, abmac@... writes:

Gordon Jump and Gregory Sierra.

I thought that was WKRP and Barney Miller?<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/1/02 10:53:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, mlccougar@... writes:

And while you're in your writing frenzy, why not send a letter or two off to:

Dark Horse Comics
10956 SE Main
Milwaukie, Oregon
                    97222

Granted, I never received any reply from them by either email or postal mail, but I have written to them both ways to request that they do a line of comics based on the Classic Apes series...

Forget that!  How about a Graphic Novel of the Boulle book?  That's the ticket!

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/2/02 9:41:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, valwp@... writes:

Laugh, clown, laugh.  You'll miss me when I'm gone.

They all do.

Kassiophelia

Where are you going, Oh my Kassio Lassio?<.html

*** Finally! An explanation for your bizarre reference to Scientology
earlier! These "few scientologists" you've met... have they ever
applied the rigors of the Scientific Method to their goofy,
ridiculous, pseudo-scientific "pop"-religion's beliefs? Do they
actually BELIEVE in "engrams" and in the efficacy of the use of an "E-
meter" to diagnose their mental problems? Despite the "Sciento-"
prefix in the name of their bullshit belief system, there's NOTHING
scientific about Hubbard's bogus religion--a religion he cooked up on
a drunken bet that he could invent a religion and profit by it within
a year's time. He knew SOMETHING about human nature, granted: the
gullibility of the average f***ing idiot, since his invented religion
DID make him lots of money, as well as make him of interest to the
IRS.
You talk about how applying science to religion doesn't work, that
they are incompatible. The reason for that is that Religion is NOT
based on the Scientific Method, and is a FALSE perception of the real
Universe. The application of the Scientific Method to the claims of
ANY and ALL religions reveals them to be non-scientific, non-true,
false, mistaken, and based on metaphorical analogy-driven
suppositions. I'll give you an example: the very word "Religion" has
a specific meaning, coming from Latin "religio", which is "to RE-
LINK" or "to re-attach". The idea is that "God" is something to which
all people were once attached, as a fetus is to its mother in the
placenta & womb, connected by an umbilical cord. The original "God"
was thought of as FEMALE in this regard, and the temples of the most
ancient world religions were circular (imitating the womb) with
an "omphalos" stone in the middle (the Greek word "omphalos"
means "navel" or "umbilicus"). Entering into the temple was like
going back into the womb and "re-linking" up to the Mother God with a
metaphorical umbilical cord.
Even the gothic cathedrals took this notion to heart, since the main
entryway has a design facade called the "vesica piscis"--shaped like
the vulva (with its "fishy" ["piscis"] smell--something noticed by
the Ancients)--look at the entryway into St. Patrick's Cathedral in
BENEATH, through which Brent staggers backward, away from Nova
(hmmm... also ponder the Freudian symbolism of the Ape Army using a
battering ram in order to force its way inside...).
Entering into Chartres Cathedral is, symbolically, like entering into
the womb of "Mother Church" through the outer genitalia-like entryway
and through the vagina-like passage into the womb-like inner sanctum,
where the Altar takes on the role of the omphalos. Yet the original
design of Christian churches was not "cruciform"--it was CIRCULAR,
with that "round womb" metaphor in mind, and the symbol of
Christianity was the FISH.
The Ancients believed they had once been "linked" to the Divine,
because they believed in Reincarnation, and they believed in THAT
because they likened the human life to the rising & setting & rising-
again Sun. Birth was like Sunrise, Death was like Sunset, RE-birth
was like the next Sunrise, etc.
You'll note that these analogies ("[Re-]Birth" = "Sunrise") are not
based on the Scientific Method. They didn't "theorize" that human
beings have souls, and then test that theory--they ASSUMED that human
beings have a non-fleshly component (a "soul" or "spirit") which
lives on somehow, and they probably assumed that because of WISHFUL
THINKING. Hell, even I would LIKE to believe in an Afterlife, that
THIS life isn't the ONLY life I'll ever get to experience. But
WISHFUL THINKING is not the Method by which Science finds out the
answers to the unknown. The entryways to the vast majority of ancient
temples was on the EASTERN side (as was the Temple of Solomon), where
the rays of the rising Sun would shine into the "holy of holies" as a
symbol of the re-birth each person hoped to experience.

People are free to believe whatever unproven/unprovable set of
beliefs rubs them the right way. Freedom of religion is a given in a
truly free society (like America's). But make no mistake about it:
there is NOTHING WHATSOEVER "scientific" about Religion. It makes
some people feel good, and it gives them Hope (and it's hard to
compete with that!)... yet it makes other people commit atrocities
against those who don't belong to their "true religion" (jihads &
crusades & witch-trials, etc.).
All religion is false religion--because the claims of religion are
not based on the Scientific Method. Belief in the existence of
Leprechauns is just as valid as a belief in "God" or "predestination"
or "reincarnation"--since NONE of these beliefs can ever be subject
to Experimentation. And experimentation is the ONLY way to test
whether or not a theory is supported by the facts. Only an idiot
believes in the existence of Leprechauns, so why do so many people
believe in the equally-unscientific "God"? Well, nobody ever claimed
(to my knowledge) that Belief in Leprechauns is a prerequisite for
Eternal Life in the bliss of Paradise. Ah, but believe in "God" (or
in His Son/"Alter Ego" Jesus Christ as your PERSONAL savior) and you
WILL have Eternal Life... unless THAT doctrine is false, and there is
only ONE God (Allah) and only ONE reliable prophet (Mohammed), in
which case Belief in/Worship of Allah will not only get you into
Paradise, but you'll get to debauch 72 virgins, too! Allah likes the
idea of debauching virgins... as long as it happens AFTER you fly
your hijacked airplanes into those symbols of western decadence (the
WTC towers) first, in a suicidal blaze of glory... only THEN, after
your soul goes to the "garden of Allah", should the debauching begin!

Ah, religion! The supreme folly of the human mind. If it doesn't get
us killed, our distant descendants will look back on our time and
wonder how we ever survived this madness. Religion is a mental
illness, as Clarke depicts in "3001: The Final Odyssey", a warped way
of looking at the Universe which the people of the Future will have
discarded, just like belief in the Flat Earth.
Unless somebody builds a Doomsday Bomb and somebody else detonates it
first, of course... How fitting that the destruction of the World (in
BENEATH THE PLANET OF THE APES) is done in a place of Religion, and
that the "instrument of [Mendez's] God" is triggered by a man who
earlier had called upon God to literally damn the human race to Hell.
Ursus got the blessing of the simian religious leaders, who held a
prayer meeting/ceremony in their church for Ursus' "holy war
undertaken for [God's] sake". The Mutants believe in a God, too...
and they worship that God's "Divine Bomb", His "instrument". The
PLANET OF THE APES saga shows Religion to be the springboard for the
mass-murders which inevitably follow ("Your GOD, eh? Your 'god'
didn't save you, did he!" says Ursus to the dying Mendez).

Sadly, "God" won't "save" anybody in the Real world, either. Because
there IS no such thing or "person" as God. The Japanese emperor,
Hirohito, was thought to be a "god" by his people... until MacArthur
forced him to go out and reveal his all-too-human nature to those
defeated people, who had been willing to fight to the last
man/woman/child for him out of that belief. The "god" of the Bible,
after he mass-murders the entire human race (except for Noah's
family) and all other animal life on the planet's surface (except for
the animals in the Ark), likes the smell of burning flesh on the
altar upon which Noah sacrifices some of the animals he'd saved on
the Ark (see Genesis 8:20-21). If "the LORD smelled the pleasing
odor" of the burnt offerings, it was because the "Lord" had actual,
physical nostrils and actual nerve-endings in his nasal passages...
in other words, "He" was NOT a "Holy Ghost", he was NOT
that "invisible man" that George Carlin goofed on in his HBO special
["You Are All Diseased"]... no, that supposed "God" was a PHYSICAL
BEING, if he truly existed at all. If he had a physical body, it was
the use [the MIS-use] of a superior technology which gave "Him" the
ability to fool the gullible rubes in the Middle East into believing
he had "magical" powers. I bet if you could send Penn & Teller, or
David Blaine, back through Time about 6000 years they'd end up being
worshipped as Gods, due to their "leger de main"/"slight-of-hand".
There's a sucker born every minute... and he/she usually becomes
a "true believer" as a result.

Ah, religion!

Patrick

--- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> Patty, calm down!
>
> I've met a few scientologists and they have all been rather fixated
> on finding a scientific explanation for everything.
>
> This all falls apart, as you seem to agree, when one attempts to
apply science to religion...they just are not compatible.
>
> I would also argue that Planet of the Apes is not compatible. It
is a story written to make a point (and a profit), not to make
scientific sense.
>
> If ever I write something you don't understand, just respond
with "what do you mean ny this?"...you don't have to go to the
trouble of re-telling your whole life story (again!).
>
> Michael
>
> --- "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:
> > --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > > No, where do you draw this conclusion from?
> > >
> > > Michael
> >
> *** YOU'RE the one who brought up Scientology. What the smeg does
THAT have to do with what we were arguing about? I drew that
conclusion because I, in my posting, had brought up the works of
Isaac Asimov... and NOT the works of any other SF writer, like L. Ron
Hubbard. Your question regarding Scientology was the Non Sequitor to
end all Non Sequitors... and, in trying to come up with a reason why
you might toss that one outta left field, I thought to
myself, "Hmmm... maybe Mikey has mistaken Asimov for Hubbard--
another 'Golden Age of SF' author... Maybe Mikey thinks it was Asimov
who wrote "DIANETICS" and invented Scientology, thinking that my
citing of Asimov's written SF works makes me a fan of 'his'
Scientology, too..."
Making sense of Dehn's flubs is EASY compared to making sense out of
your nonsensical reference to Scientology. So, again, I'll ask you:
What the f*** are you babblin' about? What the f*** does Scientology
have to do with anything we were dueling over?
>
> Patrick

.htmlIn a message dated 11/1/02 11:15:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

  I liked the "Horse Race". I'd put that somewhere in the middle. It's a favorite for many. "The Interrogation" could have been one of the best if not for the ending (and the boring parents). - - - Jeff

That actress who played Galen's mother sure had a BIG NOSE!  She sort of looked Baboonish in the makeup!  But she was funny!

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/1/02 11:16:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

I seem to know a lot about Patrick Stewart.
Too bad I'm not much a a fan of his.
He does too many Turner movies.
Where over acting is appreciated.

Did you ever see him in "I, Claudius"?   He was pretty good.  I can't wait to watch him overact in "Nemesis," and to a Jerry Goldsmith score.  It should be good.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/1/02 11:23:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, mlccougar@... writes:

Gregory Sierra was also on Sanford and Son...

The last time I saw him was in John Carpenter's "Vampires."  He got killed in that one.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/2/02 12:00:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

But then I can't take Mr. Robinson's WHINY ass tones.

Go then!  Into your Kingdom!


For those not in the know here, T is making a reference to the 20th Century-Fox film "The Robe."   It's on DVD.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/2/02 8:45:50 AM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

   The "Spidey" DVD is getting mixed reviews. Picture and sound isn't "reference quality" as they call it. And I heard the extras are pretty bland, except for the stuff on the comic you mentioned. But it makes sense they would toot the horn of the comic since Marvel has a lot of power on it's movies and they've got comics to sell. In a way, Fox did all that with the "Behind" doc. But if they're really doing a 5-star collection they'd better be pretty inventive to come up with new stuff. - - - Jeff

A little bit of Spiderman goes a long way.  I got a laugh yesterday when I read that for the sequel Sam Raimi wants to "really get into the head of Peter Parker."  Why?  So we can explore an empty space?  That's the problem I have with all this comic book hero stuff that's hot all over again -- it's just comic book stuff!   I'm too old for that nonsense!  Superheroes?!!  What are we, babies?

-- Rory<.html

--- In pota@y..., mlccougar@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 10/31/2002 4:47:45 PM Central Standard Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
>
> > Hmmm... lemme guess... you use "Mlccougar" because your REAL name

is no longer used, due to you being in the Witless Protection
Program, right? Oh NO! I just made a smart-ass comment, and I didn't
keep it to myself!

> I am NOT the only one in this group that uses the SN only... Check

your messages a little closer before you make allegations that are
not true... And what about you being in the Dic*less Protection
Program? Why would you needlessly share your personal problems with
this egroup?

*** What, pray tell, is "the SN" which you (among others) "only" use?
I'm guessin' that the "N" in "SN" means "Name"... but what does
the "S" stand for? Don't you know that "PseudoNym" starts with a "P"?
It ain't "Soo-doh-nim", Mlccougar.
And you still haven't indicated the IMPORTANT MEANING of your fake
Net-name "Mlccougar"... why not? Oh, I could speculate that
the "cougar" part has something to do with the large feline animal
(or, perhaps, the car which uses that animal as its logo/symbol)...
might it be that you use the Cougar as some sort of shamanic "totem"
animal when you bang your drum, ingest psilocybin, and go on
your "journey to the center of your mind" like the song says? You
SAID that it had nothing to do with John "Cougar" Mellencamp... so
what the fuck DOES it mean, then?
And that "Mlc-" prefix... what, is that some sort of acronym,
perhaps? Hmmm... lemme guess... "Me Like Cock"? "Man Licker
Carcano"? "Mustache Like Castro's"?
Just what DOES it stand for, fella? Inquiring minds wanna know!

Patrick

P.S. How did you know that I'm in the Diceless Protection Program? It
keeps me outta the big casinos, so's I don't spend all my money on
the roulette wheel. "No Dice"...

.htmlIn a message dated 11/2/02 10:09:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

Ah, religion!

Patrick

AH, SHUT UP!

Rory

P.S.   Why go on like this about religion, Patrick?  Let's talk POTA. . . Patrick, you're in Boulle's novel.  You're living on Soror 10,000 years before the events of the book.  What are you doing?  Do you have an ape as a house servant?  And which ape do you prefer waiting on you, gorilla, orang, or chimpanzee?  Male or female?  How well do you sleep knowing there's an ape in the house?  Are you secretly afraid of the ape?<.html

--- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:

> In a message dated 10/31/2002 4:36:08 PM Central Standard Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
> > Thanks, T, for implying that I'm one of "the wisest men".
>
> Well, maybe not wise, but a least a wiseass.
> But a well very read wiseass!

*** Fair enough! Being a "wiseass" is probably just as good as
being "wise", anyway.

Patrick

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:

> Right you are, sir. And both Gregory Sierra and James Gregory (of
> "Beneath") were regulars on "Barney Miller". - - - Jeff

*** And "Barney" is the name of the kids' show dinosaur... and Zira
fainted in a museum where she was being shown displays of dinosaur
skeletons...
Where the hell does Kevin Bacon fit into any of this?

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Anthony B. McElveen" <abmac@i...>
> To: <pota@y...>
> Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 7:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] re: Up Above director
>
>
> > Gordon Jump and Gregory Sierra.
> >
> > ABMAC
> >
> > On Friday, November 1, 2002, at 09:06 PM, <veetus@e...> wrote:
> >
> > > Hey, can anyone tell me which other two
> > > actors were in both POTA and "Soap"?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >
> >

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 11/2/02 10:09:06 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
>
> > Ah, religion!
> >
> > Patrick
> >
> >
>
> AH, SHUT UP!
>
> Rory
>
> P.S. Why go on like this about religion, Patrick? Let's talk

POTA. . .

> Patrick, you're in Boulle's novel. You're living on Soror 10,000

years before the events of the book. What are you doing? Do you
have an ape as a house servant? And which ape do you prefer waiting
on you, gorilla, orang, or chimpanzee? Male or female? How well do
you sleep knowing there's an ape in the house? Are you secretly
afraid of the ape?

*** Hey! I made it topical by citing the "religion-as-dangerous"
motif in BENEATH: it's a Religion-based war which ends up causing the
destruction of the Earth. I also pointed out the vagina-like "vesica
piscis" facade of the gothic (St. Patrick's) cathedral seen in
BENEATH, and the Freudian symbolism of Ursus' army using a phallic
battering ram to force their way inside...
I WAS talkin' POTA! BTW, despite it being one of the "lesser" POTA-TV
episodes, "Up Above..." DID fit in with the THEME of the show, which
was advocacy of a pro-Science & anti-Superstition view of the
universe--the Apes (and many of the humans) are, sadly, a bunch of
superstitious "luddites" who fear Technology (including the Flying
Glider). The chimp bitch wanted to misuse technology (the glider, and
those fragmentation grenades), whereas the inventor had noble motives
to compel him to build his flying machine...
Similarly, the technological innovation in "Tomorrow's Tide" (the
Net) does far more to better the condition of ALL people (both Apes
and Humans), than the superstitious beliefs they'd clung to for who
knows how long. Yeah, one of the "less good" episodes, but "Tide"
still delivered on the thematic content.

In regards to your hypothetical (being "in Boulle's novel"), I'd
hafta say that my disagreements with Boulle's notion of
the "appalling scourge" affecting the Human mind prevent me from
taking the concept all that seriously. I, for one, unlike Professor
Antelle, would not settle for living in a comfy cage and regressing
into an animal state. I would not be making use of Apes of any kind
as slaves/servants, since TECHNOLOGICAL innovation can supply any
modern human with the benefits of "the high life" which in past
centuries were only available to the Aristocracy, who made use of
servants to cater to their needs: to Cook, to Clean, etc. We have it
better than the Earls and Dukes and Barons of the Medieval world: we
have MICROWAVE OVENS and other such high-tech appliances to do our
cleaning cheaply and easily. We don't NEED servants, since we live in
a high-tech world. It's "FUTURAMA", baby!
It's interesting that the chimp which Antelle brought along on their
trip to Soror (Hector) was not a servant doing chores for the crew.
Hector was like a pet, or mascot. He amused them with his tricks. But
they didn't try to force-fit him into a slave's role. Evidently, both
on Soror and on Earth (during their 700 years away) and in CONQUEST,
the danger is in giving Apes "human" tasks (which makes them
proficient at human activity, "aping" us) in a demeaning role: that
of a slave.
I'd rather have a high-tech gizmo do the hard work for me.

Patrick

Kass, don't kill yourself over rory. He's not worth it. Let's run away
together! We both like the same episodes. - - - Goob

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kassidy Rae" <valwp@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 6:41 AM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Down Below director


>
> As for Kassidy, she's just breathing to me, just breathing.
>
> -- Rory
>
> Laugh, clown, laugh. You'll miss me when I'm gone.
>
> They all do.
>
> Kassiophelia
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 6:45 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] re: Up Above director

In a message dated 11/1/02 10:05:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

  I thought the "I'm dead" guy was hilarious. And I have a soft spot for
Roscoe Lee Browne because of "Soap". Hey, can anyone tell me which other two
actors were in both POTA and "Soap"? Eric Greene is a fan of both too. The
shark was funny too. If it's a bad episode then the mark of quality is how
funny it is. - - - P.S. B.

I'm not up on my SOAP trivia.  Please do tell.

For me what's most hilarious in the show is that one fat gorilla with the scrunched up face.  He always walks around stooped over holding his hands up to his chest.  Even when he has a rifle he holds up at chest level.  I wonder who it was played him?  The guy obviously never saw PLANET or BENEATH to know what the proper posture for a gorilla was.  This guy always was scrunching up his face, so I think he thought his was acting like an ape better than most, BUT HE WAS AWFUL!   Does anybody else know who I'm talking about?

-- Rory
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 6:49 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] re: Up Above director

In a message dated 11/1/02 10:05:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

If it's a bad episode then the mark of quality is how funny it is. - - - P.S. B.

I remember when the show original aired, the episode where they have a fight in the ape hospital and there are gorillas lying in bed with broken legs and they get there legs knocked around in the fights and grimaces in pain.  It was like a Looney Tune cartoon.  The first time I saw it I was rolling on the floor in laughter.  Anybody know the scene I'm talking about?

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 6:56 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Fox prez on "Apes 2"

In a message dated 11/1/02 10:12:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

  The Nov. 8 issue of "Entertainment Weekly" has an article on upcoming sequels and the whys. It says there currently no plans for an "Apes 2" and quotes Fox president Hutch Parker: "What astounds me is that that was one of the most profitable films we've had in the last 5 years and yet the perception is that it was a failure". Boy, those execs are swift, eh? But what do you expect from a guy named Hutch? - - Jeff

Amazing, O High Potentate!   What a sad, cynical laugh I'm having! It's all money with these guys.  If it makes money, it's good, no matter how bad it is.

I think the reason there hasn't been an announcement of an APES 2 yet is because Fox has a real problem to face.  How do they make a sequel that's better than the first one -- because it's going to HAVE to be better -- and do it for less money?  It's almost an impossible situation, and you know these guys aren't that bright!

Maurice Evans played a guy named Hutch in "Rosemary's Baby."  Anybody else here seen that movie?  It's pretty good.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

i kind of hate to say it but i really liked Elman's 2001 score....he
got overlooked for that...altho he can be a bit redundant....the
score for "Queen of the Damned" was pretty hot.....--- In
pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:

> Ok, Tim. What composer do you like? - - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tim" <apefan23@y...>
> To: <pota@y...>
> Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 3:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Top 40 Film Composers (OT)
>
>
> > yes...barry's Bond scores were great but lately from The

Deep

> > and King Kong to Dances With Wolves they all sound exactly

the

> > same......
> >
> > I'd also make room for John Barry: his
> > > Bond scores alone helped make them as effective as they
> > were.
> > >
> > > Patrick
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >

isn't that the episode where burke/virdon teach apes HOW TO
MAKE A NET? to catch fish...so what were all those soldier apes
throwing at Taylor?

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> "Up Above" and "Tomorrow's Tide" are the bottom of the barrel
(at least to me; opinions will vary) but I liked the idea of a fishing
village and thought it was more appropriate to the series than
hang gliding. I liked that "Up Above" had an evil chimp (Burton
wasn't such an innovator) but that wasn't enough. Love, Goob
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Kassidy Rae
> To: pota@y...
> Sent: Friday, November 01, 2002 10:51 AM
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] re: Up Above director
>
>
> <I guess this is off-topic, since I'm not hurling an insult at
anybody. But I learned "Apes" TV director John Meredyth Lucas
died Oct. 19 at age 83. OK, he directed the worst episode, "Up
Above the World So High" but every death diminishes me. He
also did episodes of "Star Trek" (original) , Serling's "Night
Gallery", "$ 6 Million Man" and the series POTA was often
compared to, "The Fugitive". RIP, sir. - - Jeff>
>
> Hi Goob, you really think "Up Above" was worse than
Tomorrow's Tide?
>
> Love,
>
> kassidy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--- In pota@y..., "Tim" <apefan23@y...> wrote:

> isn't that the episode where burke/virdon teach apes HOW TO
> MAKE A NET? to catch fish...so what were all those soldier apes
> throwing at Taylor?

The TV show takes place in 3085, some 870 years before 3955, when
Taylor gets netted. During the same interim the Apes figure out how
to take photographs, since the TV Zaius doesn't know how ("The
Legacy") yet in PLANET (movie) the gorilla hunters pause to take a
picture ("Smile!"... "Haw haw haw!").
Ironic, isn't it, that when Virdon & Burke show the Apes how to make
a net, that same invention is used against their fellow 20th Century
ANSA astronaut, Taylor, almost 9 centuries later!

Patrick

true..it just seems odd that the TV apes with all their other
inventions...wagons, surgical implements..that one didn't
couldn't figure out a better way to catch fish!!!
--- In pota@y..., "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@y...>
wrote:

> --- In pota@y..., "Tim" <apefan23@y...> wrote:
> > isn't that the episode where burke/virdon teach apes HOW

TO

> > MAKE A NET? to catch fish...so what were all those soldier

apes

> > throwing at Taylor?
>
> The TV show takes place in 3085, some 870 years before

3955, when

> Taylor gets netted. During the same interim the Apes figure out

how

> to take photographs, since the TV Zaius doesn't know how

("The

> Legacy") yet in PLANET (movie) the gorilla hunters pause to

take a

> picture ("Smile!"... "Haw haw haw!").
> Ironic, isn't it, that when Virdon & Burke show the Apes how to

make

> a net, that same invention is used against their fellow 20th

Century

> ANSA astronaut, Taylor, almost 9 centuries later!
>
> Patrick

--- In pota@y..., "Tim" <apefan23@y...> wrote:

> isn't that the episode where burke/virdon teach apes HOW TO
> MAKE A NET? to catch fish...so what were all those soldier apes
> throwing at Taylor?
>

Well see Tim,
the tv show came before the movies, so Taylor can thank Burke and
Virdon for being netted. Ah, the irony...
Kassidy

--- In pota@y..., "Kassidy Rae" <valwp@y...> wrote:

> --- In pota@y..., "Tim" <apefan23@y...> wrote:
> > isn't that the episode where burke/virdon teach apes HOW TO
> > MAKE A NET? to catch fish...so what were all those soldier apes
> > throwing at Taylor?
> >
> Well see Tim,
> the tv show came before the movies,

Uh, I meant the "movie", as in the first one. As for you, Goob, if
you like the same episodes as me, you probably really are gay. The
perfect men always are.

One more test question: Did you like the "Fly" remake? I think I
remember Rory did, but I don't remember how you felt about it. I
thought it was god-awful, in that I couldn't get past the unnecessary
ooey gooey crap. Know what I mean?
K

.htmlIn a message dated 11/2/2002 9:28:55 AM Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

*** What, pray tell, is "the SN" which you (among others) "only" use?
I'm guessin' that the "N" in "SN" means "Name"... but what does
the "S" stand for? Don't you know that "PseudoNym" starts with a "P"?

My, my, my... The groups 'lil genius doesn't know that SN simply means "Screen Name"... For someone who allegedly so highly superior in intellect, how could that one have gotten by you?<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/2/2002 7:49:09 AM Central Standard Time, valwp@... writes:

But anyway, back to POTA, I liked Carsia on "Up Above", but Frank
Aletter (sp?) was boring.

I agree with you here... She was a much better character then Lueric... The High Council Meeting was the highlight of the episode for me though...<.html

Oh, "The Fly" remake was just AWFUL! I don't know how Rory can stand it.
So I'll pick you up around 8ish? Nothing to worry about, I'm gay
remember. - - - the Man called Goob

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kassidy Rae" <valwp@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 10:24 AM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] re: Up Above director


> --- In pota@y..., "Kassidy Rae" <valwp@y...> wrote:
> > --- In pota@y..., "Tim" <apefan23@y...> wrote:
> > > isn't that the episode where burke/virdon teach apes HOW TO
> > > MAKE A NET? to catch fish...so what were all those soldier apes
> > > throwing at Taylor?
> > >
> > Well see Tim,
> > the tv show came before the movies,
>
> Uh, I meant the "movie", as in the first one. As for you, Goob, if
> you like the same episodes as me, you probably really are gay. The
> perfect men always are.
>
> One more test question: Did you like the "Fly" remake? I think I
> remember Rory did, but I don't remember how you felt about it. I
> thought it was god-awful, in that I couldn't get past the unnecessary
> ooey gooey crap. Know what I mean?
> K
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.htmlIn a message dated 11/2/2002 8:47:14 AM Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

For me what's most hilarious in the show is that one fat gorilla with the scrunched up face.  He always walks around stooped over holding his hands up to his chest.  Even when he has a rifle he holds up at chest level.  I wonder who it was played him?  The guy obviously never saw PLANET or BENEATH to know what the proper posture for a gorilla was.  This guy always was scrunching up his face, so I think he thought his was acting like an ape better than most, BUT HE WAS AWFUL!   Does anybody else know who I'm talking about?

-- Rory

RON STEIN is who you're talking about here... I know EXACTLY what you mean too... He was not exactly the greatest gorilla in the world, that's for sure...<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/2/2002 8:51:29 AM Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

I remember when the show original aired, the episode where they have a fight in the ape hospital and there are gorillas lying in bed with broken legs and they get there legs knocked around in the fights and grimaces in pain.  It was like a Looney Tune cartoon.  The first time I saw it I was rolling on the floor in laughter.  Anybody know the scene I'm talking about?

Yes, I know the scene all too well... It is what "ruined" an otherwise pretty good episode... Well, I know Jeff wasn't too keen on Galen's parents, (personally I could take them or leave them) but even worse than them was Dr. Malthus (sp?)...<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/2/2002 10:38:29 AM Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

Hah! I get to answer all these cause Cougar isn't up yet. That's the end of "The Interrogation" we were talking about. - - - Jeff

Yeah, now after reading thru all the emails I see that you did indeed get to answer all of Rory's "trivia"... Now all of my emails to the group are basically pointless... Oh well, I'm not the only one posting that way then....

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/2/2002 11:26:26 AM Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

The TV show takes place in 3085, some 870 years before 3955, when
Taylor gets netted. During the same interim the Apes figure out how
to take photographs, since the TV Zaius doesn't know how ("The
Legacy") yet in PLANET (movie) the gorilla hunters pause to take a
picture ("Smile!"... "Haw haw haw!").
Ironic, isn't it, that when Virdon & Burke show the Apes how to make
a net, that same invention is used against their fellow 20th Century
ANSA astronaut, Taylor, almost 9 centuries later!

I could never figure that out, and it was pretty stupid... Unless they were trying to show them how to make a "fishing net" which I seen no difference with. I mean the netting that was used to capture Burke at the start of "The Interrogation" or the net thrown on Virdon in "The Horse Race" could have very easily been adapted to fishing use... It's obvious they messed up somewhere in the script writing process, and it lies within the script for "Tomorrow's Tide."

Netting capturing ANSA astronanuts was nothing new in the year 3978...It was happening "900" years earlier than that... Check your episodes...<.html

It's called being book smart rather than street smart. But what do
you expect from someone who can't read a map the right way up.

--- In pota@y..., mlccougar@a... wrote:
> My, my, my... The groups 'lil genius doesn't know that SN simply
means
> "Screen Name"... For someone who allegedly so highly superior in
intellect,
> how could that one have gotten by you?

Patrick,

You seem to have lost track again.

This post is full of trivia that may be interesting to academics, but to a
POTA chat group? And the time and energy you expend....why don't you use
that time and energy to get yourself laid?

Have you seen "A Beautiful Mind" Patrick?

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@...]
> Sent: Sunday, 3 November 2002 2:07
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Scientology, like all other religions, is
> False
>
>
> *** Finally! An explanation for your bizarre reference to Scientology
> earlier! These "few scientologists" you've met... have they ever
> applied the rigors of the Scientific Method to their goofy,
> ridiculous, pseudo-scientific "pop"-religion's beliefs? Do they
> actually BELIEVE in "engrams" and in the efficacy of the use of an "E-
> meter" to diagnose their mental problems? Despite the "Sciento-"
> prefix in the name of their bullshit belief system, there's NOTHING
> scientific about Hubbard's bogus religion--a religion he cooked up on
> a drunken bet that he could invent a religion and profit by it within
> a year's time. He knew SOMETHING about human nature, granted: the
> gullibility of the average f***ing idiot, since his invented religion
> DID make him lots of money, as well as make him of interest to the
> IRS.
> You talk about how applying science to religion doesn't work, that
> they are incompatible. The reason for that is that Religion is NOT
> based on the Scientific Method, and is a FALSE perception of the real
> Universe. The application of the Scientific Method to the claims of
> ANY and ALL religions reveals them to be non-scientific, non-true,
> false, mistaken, and based on metaphorical analogy-driven
> suppositions. I'll give you an example: the very word "Religion" has
> a specific meaning, coming from Latin "religio", which is "to RE-
> LINK" or "to re-attach". The idea is that "God" is something to which
> all people were once attached, as a fetus is to its mother in the
> placenta & womb, connected by an umbilical cord. The original "God"
> was thought of as FEMALE in this regard, and the temples of the most
> ancient world religions were circular (imitating the womb) with
> an "omphalos" stone in the middle (the Greek word "omphalos"
> means "navel" or "umbilicus"). Entering into the temple was like
> going back into the womb and "re-linking" up to the Mother God with a
> metaphorical umbilical cord.
> Even the gothic cathedrals took this notion to heart, since the main
> entryway has a design facade called the "vesica piscis"--shaped like
> the vulva (with its "fishy" ["piscis"] smell--something noticed by
> the Ancients)--look at the entryway into St. Patrick's Cathedral in
> BENEATH, through which Brent staggers backward, away from Nova
> (hmmm... also ponder the Freudian symbolism of the Ape Army using a
> battering ram in order to force its way inside...).
> Entering into Chartres Cathedral is, symbolically, like entering into
> the womb of "Mother Church" through the outer genitalia-like entryway
> and through the vagina-like passage into the womb-like inner sanctum,
> where the Altar takes on the role of the omphalos. Yet the original
> design of Christian churches was not "cruciform"--it was CIRCULAR,
> with that "round womb" metaphor in mind, and the symbol of
> Christianity was the FISH.
> The Ancients believed they had once been "linked" to the Divine,
> because they believed in Reincarnation, and they believed in THAT
> because they likened the human life to the rising & setting & rising-
> again Sun. Birth was like Sunrise, Death was like Sunset, RE-birth
> was like the next Sunrise, etc.
> You'll note that these analogies ("[Re-]Birth" = "Sunrise") are not
> based on the Scientific Method. They didn't "theorize" that human
> beings have souls, and then test that theory--they ASSUMED that human
> beings have a non-fleshly component (a "soul" or "spirit") which
> lives on somehow, and they probably assumed that because of WISHFUL
> THINKING. Hell, even I would LIKE to believe in an Afterlife, that
> THIS life isn't the ONLY life I'll ever get to experience. But
> WISHFUL THINKING is not the Method by which Science finds out the
> answers to the unknown. The entryways to the vast majority of ancient
> temples was on the EASTERN side (as was the Temple of Solomon), where
> the rays of the rising Sun would shine into the "holy of holies" as a
> symbol of the re-birth each person hoped to experience.
>
> People are free to believe whatever unproven/unprovable set of
> beliefs rubs them the right way. Freedom of religion is a given in a
> truly free society (like America's). But make no mistake about it:
> there is NOTHING WHATSOEVER "scientific" about Religion. It makes
> some people feel good, and it gives them Hope (and it's hard to
> compete with that!)... yet it makes other people commit atrocities
> against those who don't belong to their "true religion" (jihads &
> crusades & witch-trials, etc.).
> All religion is false religion--because the claims of religion are
> not based on the Scientific Method. Belief in the existence of
> Leprechauns is just as valid as a belief in "God" or "predestination"
> or "reincarnation"--since NONE of these beliefs can ever be subject
> to Experimentation. And experimentation is the ONLY way to test
> whether or not a theory is supported by the facts. Only an idiot
> believes in the existence of Leprechauns, so why do so many people
> believe in the equally-unscientific "God"? Well, nobody ever claimed
> (to my knowledge) that Belief in Leprechauns is a prerequisite for
> Eternal Life in the bliss of Paradise. Ah, but believe in "God" (or
> in His Son/"Alter Ego" Jesus Christ as your PERSONAL savior) and you
> WILL have Eternal Life... unless THAT doctrine is false, and there is
> only ONE God (Allah) and only ONE reliable prophet (Mohammed), in
> which case Belief in/Worship of Allah will not only get you into
> Paradise, but you'll get to debauch 72 virgins, too! Allah likes the
> idea of debauching virgins... as long as it happens AFTER you fly
> your hijacked airplanes into those symbols of western decadence (the
> WTC towers) first, in a suicidal blaze of glory... only THEN, after
> your soul goes to the "garden of Allah", should the debauching begin!
>
> Ah, religion! The supreme folly of the human mind. If it doesn't get
> us killed, our distant descendants will look back on our time and
> wonder how we ever survived this madness. Religion is a mental
> illness, as Clarke depicts in "3001: The Final Odyssey", a warped way
> of looking at the Universe which the people of the Future will have
> discarded, just like belief in the Flat Earth.
> Unless somebody builds a Doomsday Bomb and somebody else detonates it
> first, of course... How fitting that the destruction of the World (in
> BENEATH THE PLANET OF THE APES) is done in a place of Religion, and
> that the "instrument of [Mendez's] God" is triggered by a man who
> earlier had called upon God to literally damn the human race to Hell.
> Ursus got the blessing of the simian religious leaders, who held a
> prayer meeting/ceremony in their church for Ursus' "holy war
> undertaken for [God's] sake". The Mutants believe in a God, too...
> and they worship that God's "Divine Bomb", His "instrument". The
> PLANET OF THE APES saga shows Religion to be the springboard for the
> mass-murders which inevitably follow ("Your GOD, eh? Your 'god'
> didn't save you, did he!" says Ursus to the dying Mendez).
>
> Sadly, "God" won't "save" anybody in the Real world, either. Because
> there IS no such thing or "person" as God. The Japanese emperor,
> Hirohito, was thought to be a "god" by his people... until MacArthur
> forced him to go out and reveal his all-too-human nature to those
> defeated people, who had been willing to fight to the last
> man/woman/child for him out of that belief. The "god" of the Bible,
> after he mass-murders the entire human race (except for Noah's
> family) and all other animal life on the planet's surface (except for
> the animals in the Ark), likes the smell of burning flesh on the
> altar upon which Noah sacrifices some of the animals he'd saved on
> the Ark (see Genesis 8:20-21). If "the LORD smelled the pleasing
> odor" of the burnt offerings, it was because the "Lord" had actual,
> physical nostrils and actual nerve-endings in his nasal passages...
> in other words, "He" was NOT a "Holy Ghost", he was NOT
> that "invisible man" that George Carlin goofed on in his HBO special
> ["You Are All Diseased"]... no, that supposed "God" was a PHYSICAL
> BEING, if he truly existed at all. If he had a physical body, it was
> the use [the MIS-use] of a superior technology which gave "Him" the
> ability to fool the gullible rubes in the Middle East into believing
> he had "magical" powers. I bet if you could send Penn & Teller, or
> David Blaine, back through Time about 6000 years they'd end up being
> worshipped as Gods, due to their "leger de main"/"slight-of-hand".
> There's a sucker born every minute... and he/she usually becomes
> a "true believer" as a result.
>
> Ah, religion!
>
> Patrick
>
> --- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > Patty, calm down!
> >
> > I've met a few scientologists and they have all been rather fixated
> > on finding a scientific explanation for everything.
> >
> > This all falls apart, as you seem to agree, when one attempts to
> apply science to religion...they just are not compatible.
> >
> > I would also argue that Planet of the Apes is not compatible. It
> is a story written to make a point (and a profit), not to make
> scientific sense.
> >
> > If ever I write something you don't understand, just respond
> with "what do you mean ny this?"...you don't have to go to the
> trouble of re-telling your whole life story (again!).
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > --- "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:
> > > --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > > > No, where do you draw this conclusion from?
> > > >
> > > > Michael
> > >
> > *** YOU'RE the one who brought up Scientology. What the smeg does
> THAT have to do with what we were arguing about? I drew that
> conclusion because I, in my posting, had brought up the works of
> Isaac Asimov... and NOT the works of any other SF writer, like L. Ron
> Hubbard. Your question regarding Scientology was the Non Sequitor to
> end all Non Sequitors... and, in trying to come up with a reason why
> you might toss that one outta left field, I thought to
> myself, "Hmmm... maybe Mikey has mistaken Asimov for Hubbard--
> another 'Golden Age of SF' author... Maybe Mikey thinks it was Asimov
> who wrote "DIANETICS" and invented Scientology, thinking that my
> citing of Asimov's written SF works makes me a fan of 'his'
> Scientology, too..."
> Making sense of Dehn's flubs is EASY compared to making sense out of
> your nonsensical reference to Scientology. So, again, I'll ask you:
> What the f*** are you babblin' about? What the f*** does Scientology
> have to do with anything we were dueling over?
> >
> > Patrick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html
August 20, 2002, 9:00 a.m.
He's Not Moses, but He's Something Else
My tribute to Charlton Heston.

By Richard Dreyfuss

I am shy around movie stars. True, if odd. My tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth and all I can think to say is I loved you in ... So it is with Charlton Heston.

In his presence I seem to nod idiotically like one of these doggies in the back of rear windows of cars. He always tries to make my agonies a bit smaller since he is such a gentleman. We've talked about children and gun control but usually it's hopeless and I just end up trying not to stare.

It's a serious and silly business, acting. Grown people running around pretending the clothes they're wearing are their own, pretending the words they're saying are their own, pretending that they're not pretending. That stuff can really make you feel silly if you're not careful. A thousand times more silly if you're wearing a toga or staring offstage at a burning bush that isn't there. But as silly as it might be at times, acting has awesome power to mirror our reality and give shape to our best and most noble pictures of ourselves.

When I was a kid and yearning to act, there were scads of actors whose work I admired and tried to emulate: (Spencer) Tracy and (Charles) Laughton, Paul Muni, Irene Dunne, and Jimmy Cagney. There were also Errol Flynn and John Wayne and Charlton Heston.

I thought, being cocky, that I could be something like Tracy, something like Cagney, something like Laughton (well maybe not Laughton). I watched them all. I knew I would never be as sexy as Flynn, never as heroic as Wayne, never as mythic as Heston. I never thought for a minute I could be like Heston.

There are some performances that could not possibly be acted by anyone other than who played them. Even though we hear stories about (Ronald) Reagan being cast in Casablanca, we know in our gut it just couldn't be right, couldn't happen. God gave Bogart the role. God gave John Wayne Red River. And God cast Charlton Heston as Moses. And Ben Hur. God I think cast Heston as God, because (if I'm not mistaken) his voice is the voice of God in the Ten Commandments, playing against himself. They say Cecil B. DeMille did the voice, but it sounds like Heston to me. I believe it anyway. Makes a better story.

Millions of Jewish kids grew up with the confusion that A) Charlton Heston was Moses B) Charlton Heston was not Jewish. I believe that films like Ben Hur were conceived because Heston was there to make them. He allowed these stories to be told because he was there to play the parts. Ben Hur starring Robert Montgomery. (Please.) Tyrone Power as Moses. (I don't think so.) With all due respect, and I have loads of that, Heston is inescapable. He was necessary. There would be no Chariot Race worth its salt without him. I would never watch Heston on TV because he was too big. It would be like watching the promos to the Incredible Hulk, with the giant bursting through his shirt. He was too big for television. TV is small, it's manageable, it's less. Heston was almost too big for the 20th century, let alone TV. But in the darkened mysterioso of the movie theatre, Charlton Heston was "just right."

When I saw Charlton Heston as a kid, he took me far, far away, to places few actors could go. The only other American actor so comfortable outside of this era was Wayne, and Heston could time travel farther. Both held the magical alchemy that made me forget the commonplace of here and now completely. John Wayne allowed us into our American past. Heston, because of his perfectly male face, the depth of his voice, the measured almost antique rhythm of his speech, the oddly innocent commitment that allowed him to dive without looking into the role, took me farther, before the common era, as they say.

Somehow he was able to cut the myriad strings that connect us to our current lives, so he could inhabit our imagined past and imagined future so perfectly. So well did he do this that his discomfort was obvious when he played in the Now (actually, make that my discomfort, because he more than likely had a ball in the rare instances when he played something current). If it wasn't the past it was the future. I could never have gotten to Ancient Rome without him, nor Ape City.

Is so and so a great actor? A good actor? A bad actor? Speaking as an expert it's a stupid question. The actor either gets you to where you have to go, or not. Heston did; priceless. He could portray greatness, which is no longer an artistic goal; he could portray a grandeur that was so satisfying. What he was able to personify so perfectly for us was a vision of ourselves called heroic. Is this out of favor? Out of step? Antique? Yes, antique as in gorgeous, incredibly valuable, and not produced anymore but this is a critique of the world, not him (hopefully we will one day come back to all that).

As someone who has seen Ben Hur two million times I am totally grateful.

Self-consciousness is the anticipation of being silly and often is the spoiler for many actors. Charlton Heston had no such problem. He would dive into the story with what I can only call measured abandon and make me believe. And it was fun watching him.

It has become fashionable to characterize his politics; almost as if his politics were a separate thing, like Diana's popularity. People are either defensive or patronizing (if not contemptuous). I can only say I wish all the liberals and all the conservatives I knew had the class and forbearance he has. Would I be as patient or serene when so many had showed me such contempt, or tried to make me feel stupid or small? I doubt it, truly I do. This is dignity, simply and completely. A much more important quality than political passion at the end of the day, and far more lacking, don't you think?

It is a terrible, terrible, terrible thing that Charlton Heston is going through this (earlier this month, Heston announced he had been diagnosed with symptoms consistent with Alzheimer's disease), but I confess that there is a part of my heart where I am grateful for the opportunity to let him know what he's meant to me.

It will make him smile that I'm writing this on National Review's website (among other publications). Come to think of it, it is kind of funny.

— Richard Dreyfuss won an Oscar for his role as a struggling N.Y. actor in The Goodbye Girl. He also starred in numerous films, including Jaws, Close Encounters of the Third Kind, and What About Bob?). This piece was originally published by United Press International.

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.htmlIn a message dated 11/2/02 2:05:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

But what do you expect from someone who can't read a map the right way up.

Apes that live in glass houses. . . .
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.htmlIn a message dated 11/2/02 12:33:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, apefan23@... writes:

true..it just seems odd that the TV apes with all their other
inventions...wagons, surgical implements..that one didn't
couldn't figure out a better way to catch fish!!!

That's because the writers on the show were a lower order of primate.

-- Rory<.html