.htmlIn a message dated 11/2/02 1:25:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, valwp@... writes:

One more test question:  Did you like the "Fly" remake?  I think I
remember Rory did, but I don't remember how you felt about it.  I
thought it was god-awful, in that I couldn't get past the unnecessary
ooey gooey crap.  Know what I mean?
K

I know exactly what you mean, Kassiomommamia!  I DO NOT like "The Fly" remake (I love the original though.), and I thought it was God-awful just like you.  I like "The Thing" remake but not that much -- it is a Carpenter film after all! -- but I like the Antarctic setting.  I like movies with lots of snow in them.  That's why I live in Florida, I guess.

-- Rory<.html

I won't throw stones at your house Rory. I might hit one of the
Haitians.

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> Apes that live in glass houses. . . .

Two words:

Raving Lunatic

> -----Original Message-----
> From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@...]
> Sent: Sunday, 3 November 2002 2:27
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] The Mother of all ships...
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., mlccougar@a... wrote:
> > In a message dated 10/31/2002 4:47:45 PM Central Standard Time,
> > patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
> >
> >
> > > Hmmm... lemme guess... you use "Mlccougar" because your REAL name
> is no longer used, due to you being in the Witless Protection
> Program, right? Oh NO! I just made a smart-ass comment, and I didn't
> keep it to myself!
>
> > I am NOT the only one in this group that uses the SN only... Check
> your messages a little closer before you make allegations that are
> not true... And what about you being in the Dic*less Protection
> Program? Why would you needlessly share your personal problems with
> this egroup?
>
> *** What, pray tell, is "the SN" which you (among others) "only" use?
> I'm guessin' that the "N" in "SN" means "Name"... but what does
> the "S" stand for? Don't you know that "PseudoNym" starts with a "P"?
> It ain't "Soo-doh-nim", Mlccougar.
> And you still haven't indicated the IMPORTANT MEANING of your fake
> Net-name "Mlccougar"... why not? Oh, I could speculate that
> the "cougar" part has something to do with the large feline animal
> (or, perhaps, the car which uses that animal as its logo/symbol)...
> might it be that you use the Cougar as some sort of shamanic "totem"
> animal when you bang your drum, ingest psilocybin, and go on
> your "journey to the center of your mind" like the song says? You
> SAID that it had nothing to do with John "Cougar" Mellencamp... so
> what the fuck DOES it mean, then?
> And that "Mlc-" prefix... what, is that some sort of acronym,
> perhaps? Hmmm... lemme guess... "Me Like Cock"? "Man Licker
> Carcano"? "Mustache Like Castro's"?
> Just what DOES it stand for, fella? Inquiring minds wanna know!
>
> Patrick
>
> P.S. How did you know that I'm in the Diceless Protection Program? It
> keeps me outta the big casinos, so's I don't spend all my money on
> the roulette wheel. "No Dice"...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

In a message dated 11/2/02 10:55:48 PM Central Standard Time,
whitty@... writes:

<< > > > Hmmm... lemme guess... you use "Mlccougar" because your REAL name

> is no longer used, due to you being in the Witless Protection
> Program, right? Oh NO! I just made a smart-ass comment, and I didn't
> keep it to myself!
>
> > I am NOT the only one in this group that uses the SN only... Check
> your messages a little closer before you make allegations that are
> not true... And what about you being in the Dic*less Protection
> Program? Why would you needlessly share your personal problems with
> this egroup?
>
> *** What, pray tell, is "the SN" which you (among others) "only" use?
> I'm guessin' that the "N" in "SN" means "Name"... but what does
> the "S" stand for? Don't you know that "PseudoNym" starts with a "P"?
> It ain't "Soo-doh-nim", Mlccougar.
> And you still haven't indicated the IMPORTANT MEANING of your fake
> Net-name "Mlccougar"... why not? Oh, I could speculate that
> the "cougar" part has something to do with the large feline animal
> (or, perhaps, the car which uses that animal as its logo/symbol)...
> might it be that you use the Cougar as some sort of shamanic "totem"
> animal when you bang your drum, ingest psilocybin, and go on
> your "journey to the center of your mind" like the song says? You
> SAID that it had nothing to do with John "Cougar" Mellencamp... so
> what the fuck DOES it mean, then?
> And that "Mlc-" prefix... what, is that some sort of acronym,
> perhaps? Hmmm... lemme guess... "Me Like Cock"? "Man Licker
> Carcano"? "Mustache Like Castro's"?
> Just what DOES it stand for, fella? Inquiring minds wanna know!
>
> Patrick
>
> P.S. How did you know that I'm in the Diceless Protection Program? It
> keeps me outta the big casinos, so's I don't spend all my money on
> the roulette wheel. "No Dice"...
> >>

Yeah... okay...

-Joe

.htmlIn a message dated 11/2/2002 10:56:04 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

Two words:

Raving Lunatic

2 more words about Patty Whack: Fuc*in' a**hole<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/2/2002 8:46:02 AM Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

For me what's most hilarious in the show is that one fat gorilla with the scrunched up face.

Yeah, he was terrible.
He must have been the director's nephew or something.<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/2/2002 8:58:08 AM Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

How do they make a sequel that's better than the first one


"That shouldn't be difficult."
           ~~~Zira~~~~<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/2/2002 9:08:19 AM Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

That actress who played Galen's mother sure had a BIG NOSE!  She sort of looked Baboonish in the makeup!  But she was funny!

Maybe Galen was Jewish.<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/2/2002 9:35:43 AM Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

*** Fair enough! Being a "wiseass" is probably just as good as
being "wise", anyway.

At least you have a sense of humor.
Man Licker Carcano?
Yeah I always thought that too.
I don't know how the Warren Commission could say it and keep a straight face.  No sense of humor at all.

<.html

.htmlAnd "Barney" is the name of the kids' show dinosaur... and Zira
fainted in a museum where she was being shown displays of dinosaur
skeletons...
Where the hell does Kevin Bacon fit into any of this?

Check the Oracle of Bacon at the university of Virginia.
I was an extra in On Any Given Sunday with Chuck Heston.
That's me to Zira in two degrees.<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/2/2002 10:16:24 AM Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

We don't NEED servants, since we live in
a high-tech world. It's "FUTURAMA", baby!

We might need sexbots though.  Everyone will be so used to having everything done for them they'll all be too rude to have sex with.

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/2/2002 5:09:21 PM Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

I like movies with lots of snow in them.  That's why I live in Florida, I guess.


Strange, but I like movies with mountains.  The Fourth Man on the Mountain.  The Mountain.  With Spencer Tracy, and that other one with Bill Holden and Loyd "Sea Hunt" Bridges as a nazi. And most of Texas is flatter than Kansas.  I also like underground films.  Not that Art House stuff, but film set in underground locations, like The Mole People, The Time Machine and my fave Journey To The Center Of The Earth.  And yet Carlsbad Cavers is the only tourist cave I visit.
<.html

.html
Hey there Pat, I got a question that only you can answer.  Actually I'm not even sure you can answer it.  It's not entirety off topic, since Apes is a Space Opera and this is about space.  I got to wondering if all planetary poles line up.  That is to say, do we all spinning at the same axis.  I guess what I'm really asking is, is there an up in space?  I suppose there's nothing that says north is actually up.  Except that the maps would look awfully funny with all the pointy bits of the continents pointing up.  But do all north poles point up?  Whatever up means -- the same direction that is.  Put it the way . . .If I fly to Mars in a flying saucer and leave Earth with north as more or less UP and don't change the attitude of the ship, will the Martian north pole be more or less at the top of the planet.  I guess we can call this segment . . .Ask Pat.<.html

--- In pota@y..., mlccougar@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 11/2/2002 9:28:55 AM Central Standard Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
>
> >
> > *** What, pray tell, is "the SN" which you (among others) "only" use? I'm guessin' that the "N" in "SN" means "Name"... but what does the "S" stand for? Don't you know that "PseudoNym" starts with a "P"?

> My, my, my... The groups 'lil genius doesn't know that SN simply means "Screen Name"... For someone who allegedly so highly superior in intellect, how could that one have gotten by you?

*** First off, I've never claimed to be a genius, nor have I--like
Montalban's "Khan"--claimed to have a "superior intellect".
Secondly, NOBODY KNOWS EVERYTHING--and only a fool would claim to do
so. There's plenty that I do NOT know, and my asking the question
above is a frank admission of the lack of a specific tidbit of
knowledge.
Thirdly, since I've NEVER seen the acronym "SN" anywhere before--and
most certainly NOT on this Yahoo discussion group--and since the word
"screen" is USUALLY utilized in reference to the MOTION PICTURE
industry (as in "SCREENplay" or "SCREENwriter", as opposed to
"Teleplay") and NOT in reference to the home/personal computer (why
not HCN, or PCN?), it didn't seem likely to me that the "S" in "SN"
would stand for "screen".
You seem to think that anybody who sits in front of a computer MUST
know every single little computer-nerd term/abbreviation/whatever.
When I first started posting on this site, I had read every single
message, from #1 on up, and NEVER have I seen "SN" used anywhere.
Hell, maybe I missed it, IF it has been used... but I don't recall
seeing it, and I've read through 'em all, including the waste-of-time
ones (i.e. most of the drivel you & Mike barf up).

Patrick

--- In pota@y..., mlccougar@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 11/2/2002 11:26:26 AM Central Standard Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
>
> > The TV show takes place in 3085, some 870 years before 3955, when Taylor gets netted. During the same interim the Apes figure out how to take photographs, since the TV Zaius doesn't know how ("The Legacy") yet in PLANET (movie) the gorilla hunters pause to take a picture ("Smile!"... "Haw haw haw!"). Ironic, isn't it, that when Virdon & Burke show the Apes how to make a net, that same invention is used against their fellow 20th Century ANSA astronaut, Taylor, almost 9 centuries later!
>
> I could never figure that out, and it was pretty stupid... Unless they were trying to show them how to make a "fishing net" which I seen no difference with. I mean the netting that was used to capture Burke at the start of "The Interrogation" or the net thrown on Virdon in "The Horse Race" could have very easily been adapted to fishing use... It's obvious they messed up somewhere in the script writing process, and it lies within the script for "Tomorrow's Tide."
>
> Netting capturing ANSA astronanuts was nothing new in the year 3978...It was happening "900" years earlier than that... Check your episodes...

*** Point taken. Yeah, they did use nets to snare big humans; as I
recall, in "Tide", isn't there some supposedly sacred tradition about
spearing fish individually, "the way it has always been done", that
sort of thing? I'll have to watch it again; haven't seen it since I
bought the DVDs.
I'm guessing, now, but it seems probable to me that "the way" to catch
fish was probably a traditional method imposed by the Apes on the
Humans who--by that time--had been so subjugated by their Masters that
they'd lost whatever initiative their ancestors had. Humans tend to do
what their Ape bosses tell 'em to, and it's probable that a human who
shows initiative--and, especially, technological innovation--is
discouraged by means of a bullet or a noose (like Leuric in "Up
Above"). When the big revelation of "netting" fish instead is sprung
on Bandor (et al.), it just happens to be a "godsend", since the
quotas for fish have been going up and up (if I remember that episode
rightly), and ANY way to increase the yield would be welcome, even if
by a cleverer-than-average human.
But, yeah, you're right about Burke getting netted in "The
Interrogation", etc. That the Apes would be so stultified (from a
technological standpoint) as to NOT think to use nets to catch fish
only goes to show how much anti-techno pressure is inflicted on this
backward, luddite society--all from the Zaius types in control.

Patrick

--- In pota@y..., "james611102" <JamesA1102@a...> wrote:

> It's called being book smart rather than street smart. But what do
> you expect from someone who can't read a map the right way up.
>
> --- In pota@y..., mlccougar@a... wrote:
> > My, my, my... The groups 'lil genius doesn't know that SN simply means "Screen Name"... For someone who allegedly so highly superior in intellect, how could that one have gotten by you?

*** Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy... what are we gonna do with you? Don't you
realize that the ONLY way a map can be "right way up" is if the
PRINTED NAMES of cities/states/countries/bodies-of-water/etc. are
included on the map? You'll have noticed by now, I hope, that
Cornelius did NOT print "APE CITY" on the place he pointed to when he
said "We're here". Nor did he label "Dead Lake" as such on his map.
Nor did he label the "Forbidden Zone" (except on MARVEL's adaptation,
which obviously doesn't count). Without such printed labels, THERE IS
NO "RIGHT" WAY UP OR DOWN OR SIDEWAYS!!! Australia may be called "the
land 'Down Under'", but that does NOT mean that it is literally "down"
anywhere. It is SOUTH of most of the rest of the land-masses of the
world. There's a Mercator projection of the world which shows
everything "upside-down", where the southern hemisphere is "on top"
and the names (of cities, etc.) are all printed as such... and there's
absolutely nothing 'wrong' about it! It just goes against the
conventional way of mapping the world, is all.
Go look at a Dymaxion map of the world (the one invented by
Buckminster Fuller)--it's an unfolded 20-triangle icosahedron; the
"up" and "down" aspect of it further exemplifies that such notions are
merely the result of CONVENTION. By not putting labels on his map,
Cornelius left it ambiguous. You assume that he holds the map with
"north" up on top--but there ain't no "north" arrow label on the map
to indicate the cardinal directions.
If your mistaken notions pass for "street smarts", then I'll take
"book smart" any day of the week!

Patrick

Attachments :

.htmlIn a message dated 11/3/02 9:02:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

Nor did he label the "Forbidden Zone"

Actually, that black dotted line down the middle of the map is supposed to be the line of demarcation for the terrible Forbidden Zone.
<.html

.htmlHey, I've made an amazing discovery!  I just happened to check this site to see if the new POTA had made any more money and discovered that in fact the original POTA has made more money!  Remember that last year it said PLANET had made $26 million domestically?  Now it's up to $32.6 million!  Could this be from video sales?  And look at what the sequels are now up to!  I wouldn't mind having a piece of the percentage gross on BATTLE!
I wonder if Natalie Trundy still gets a piece of the action?  Eh, O High?

Click here: WorldwideBoxoffice.com -- 4314 titles as of Nov 2 2002 <.html

.htmlClick here: Planet of the Apes (1968)

Hey, Patrick!!!

Check out the three comments I've left on the Internet Movie Database, including two classic PLANET reviews.  And then I challenge YOU, Patrick, minister of verbosity, to leave the ultimate comment on your favorite movie.  Too bad you'll be limited to a 1000 words.

Why doesn't everybody else here leave comments on IMDB.com?

-- Rory<.html

--- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:

> Patrick,
>
> You seem to have lost track again.
>
> This post is full of trivia that may be interesting to academics, but to a POTA chat group? And the time and energy you expend....why don't you use that time and energy to get yourself laid?
>
> Have you seen "A Beautiful Mind" Patrick?
>
> Michael

*** Lost track? I was ranting about the folly of Religion, a topic
which concerns the culminating moment in the POTA saga--the
"destruction of Earth" (as Zira called it). The Mutants WORSHIP a
"Doomsday" Alpha Omega Bomb--it's their f***ing RELIGION. The Ape army
first gets the blessing of their simian religious leader(s), who refer
to their "HOLY war, undertaken for [their God's] sake": the Apes are
going on a JIHAD, philosophically not unlike the jihad against the
West currently being promulgated by assholes like Osama bin Laden.
Ursus almost detonates the Bomb due to his own ignorance ("I'll find a
way to stop it!"), prevented only by Brent distracting him by banging
on the pipe organ of St. Patrick's Cathedral--this "Doomsday... the
"end of the world" is triggered IN A HOUSE OF RELIGION. The movie,
BENEATH, was Satire and Allegory--forms of storytelling which
purposely make use of SYMBOLISM to add extra meaning... so the choice
of having Mendez's bomb-worshipping community house their "god" in the
ruins of a cathedral HAS MEANING. Is that "meaning" a PRO-RELIGION
message, or an ANTI-RELIGION message? Isn't it OBVIOUS to you that
BENEATH portrays Religion as one of the pivotal causes of the TOTAL
ANNIHILATION OF THE PLANET EARTH?
Get a clue, Mike! The POTA saga does NOT have very nice things to say
about Religion. The word "satire", in Chinese characters, literally
means "laughter with knives"--the kind of laughter that deep down
isn't really all that funny, because it exposes our own follies and
stupidities. The waging of a "holy war" is the ultimate in human
folly, and the result is hardly funny... but guys like George Carlin
get to the point, eventually, where they're so disillusioned about
such folly that they get downright HARSH! Go rent Carlin's HBO
special, "You Are All Diseased", and you'll see what I mean.

My rant was NOT "off-topic", pal. Whether you like it or not, the POTA
saga is UNFAVORABLE towards Religion, and with good reason. Nowhere in
it is the notion of a "true religion" ever presented as true--Zaius
may refer to his "Faith" in such terms, but he reveals himself to be
as much of a "heretic" (albeit a closeted one) as Cornelius and Zira
(Taylor: "You're talking HERESY, Doctor!"; Zaius: "Of COURSE!"). The
message? THE SUPPOSEDLY RELIGIOUS LEADERS DON'T REALLY BELIEVE IN THE
BULLSHIT THEY MANDATE FOR THE MASSES. They USE Religion as a tool to
keep their society "in line". The threat of punishment for religious
unorthodoxy is what gets Cornelius to exclaim to Zira, "Are you trying
to get my head chopped off?!"
Caesar, at the end of CONQUEST promises--threatens, really--that the
Apes will found their OWN Religion (etc.) in which "there will be NO
PLACE FOR HUMANS EXCEPT TO SERVE OUR ENDS". Is this a pro-Religion
message, Mike?
In BATTLE, we open with a peaceful community of Apes and Humans being
taught a Myth-embellished version of History, where the arrival of the
Ape-onauts has been LYINGLY reinterpreted as "... so God sent the
world a Savior..." We, who watched ESCAPE and CONQUEST, know that
there was no "god" involved in the events which transpired. The
intentional inclusion of a "God" character by a Scripture-writing Ape
is a FALSIFICATION of the historical record. The gullible children
listening to the Lawgiver's recitation will go on to become Believers
in this false view of history, under the mistaken notion that there IS
a God out there who not only "sent the world a Savior, miraculously
born" in their Past, but who will ALSO be able to "save the world"
from the dangers which led Caesar to deny Mandemus' request to destroy
the Armory. The Bomb still exists at the end of BATTLE... just waiting
for the mutating Kolp-less community which Mendez will rule over--a
man who suggests that Alma REVERE it, since another thing like it
"made us what we are": radiation-scarred.

I don't know about YOU, Mike, but one of the reasons I admire the POTA
saga so much is that it confronts the topic of Religion full-on, and
tells it (satirically) like it truly is. Religion is portrayed as
foolish and DANGEROUS. The man who destroys the entire planet--Colonel
George Taylor--is a man who is, at heart, a MISANTHROPE, a despiser of
his fellow human beings; at the end of PLANET he literally calls upon
God to condemn the entire human race to Hell, as punishment for having
blown up their civilization. The reason FOX didn't have to edit that
profanity out of the picture is because Heston pointed out that Taylor
LITERALLY MEANT WHAT HE SCREAMED OUT. He was literally calling upon
God to "Damn [Humanity] all to Hell!"
What do you suppose THAT has to say about Religion?!

Patrick

P.S. No, I haven't seen "A Beautiful Mind" yet. It's on my list of
movies to rent. After reading (a few posts back) about that Darron
Aronovsky (sp?) flick "Pi", I decided to rent it... and I liked it.
It's especially neat to "do the math" regarding the very last line of
dialogue in it (spoken by that little girl with the calculator-toy).

--- In pota@y..., mlccougar@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 11/2/2002 10:56:04 PM Central Standard Time,
> whitty@c... writes:
>
>
> > Two words:
> >
> > Raving Lunatic
>
>
> 2 more words about Patty Whack: Fuc*in' a**hole

*** My, oh my... how typical of you two! If you can't dazzle 'em with
brilliance or insightfulness, hurl excrement like a pissed-off
chimpanzee! You're sure to win all your arguments THAT way.

I've got "two words" for you lousy human bastards: Beneath Contempt.

--- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:

> In a message dated 11/2/2002 9:35:43 AM Central Standard Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
> > *** Fair enough! Being a "wiseass" is probably just as good as
> > being "wise", anyway.
>
> At least you have a sense of humor.
> Man Licker Carcano?
> Yeah I always thought that too.
> I don't know how the Warren Commission could say it and keep a straight face.
> No sense of humor at all.

*** In his novel about Oswald (and, for the life of me, I can't
remember the damn title!), Ron DeLillo (? sp?) has David Ferrie make a
joking reference to the infamous rifle as a "Man Licker"; Ferrie was a
"fairy" in real life (in Stone's "JFK", he was the guy played by Joe
Pesci), as was Clay Shaw/"Bertrand"... not that there's anything WRONG
with it! Most homosexuals, though, don't plot to murder the President.

Patrick

P.S. When they first found "the rifle" in the Texas School Book
Depository, they revealed it to be a Mauser; an off-duty cop (whose
name eludes me) who was there when they held it up says he saw the
word "Mauser" plainly on the rifle butt. Just one more reason to raise
an eyebrow regarding the "official" finding that "Oswald-did-it-alone"
and that there was no conspiracy to kill Kennedy.

--- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:

> In a message dated 11/2/2002 10:16:24 AM Central Standard Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
> > We don't NEED servants, since we live in
> > a high-tech world. It's "FUTURAMA", baby!
> >
>
> We might need sexbots though. Everyone will be so used to having everyth=

ing done for them they'll all be too rude to have sex with.

*** Sexbots, you say? Bring 'em on! I'll take a "Cherry 2000" model,
por favor, señor...
Anybody else see that B-flick? For low-budget, I thought it was okay.

Patrick

Great example of economy of writing. A skill others here need to
learn.

--- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> Two words:
>
> Raving Lunatic

--- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:

>
> Hey there Pat, I got a question that only you can answer. Actually I'm not even sure you can answer it. It's not entirety off topic, since Apes is a Space Opera and this is about space. I got to wondering if all planetary poles line up. That is to say, do we all spinning at the same axis. I guess what I'm really asking is, is there an up in space? I suppose there's nothing that says north is actually up. Except that the maps would look awfully funny with all the pointy bits of the continents pointing up. But do all north poles point up? Whatever up means -- the same direction that is. Put it the way . . .If I fly to Mars in a flying saucer and leave Earth with north as more or less UP and don't change the attitude of the ship, will the Martian north pole be more or less at the top of the planet. I guess we can call this segment . . .Ask Pat.

*** Good question(s), T. I'll give it a whirl.
I believe it's conventional that any rotating rigid celestial body (be
it a planet, a moon, or a star) is given a "north/south" designation
if it is rotating on its axis counter-clockwise (as seen from above
the "north" hemisphere: "west-to-east"). This is true for MOST of the
planets in the Solar System--but not for ALL, since Uranus is tilted
almost 90 degrees off-kilter, so that its spin axis is nearly parallel
to the plane of its orbit (roughly, the Ecliptic), rather than nearly
perpendicular to it: the Earth is inclined 23.5 degrees from perfect
perpendicularity (90 degrees), but is MOSTLY (66.5 degrees) oriented
with its "north" pole aligned with the spin-direction of its near-
circular orbit around the Sun. That 23.5 degrees of tilt gives us our
seasons, of course.
Interestingly, though, that "above-North-pole" counter-clockwise view
does NOT apply to all rotating systems. The Milky Way Galaxy's stars
orbit CLOCKWISE around the "Sagittarius A" center when viewed from
"above" the "North" hemispheroid of the Galaxy. That's because the
"Galactic North Pole" is, by convention, that pole which is in the
Northern celestial hemisphere, rather than the other one.
The only "up" in space depends on where you (or your ship) happens to
be. Every "point" in Cartesian space is somewhere in the gravity well
of some celestial body. The direction "down" is towards the center of
mass of the Earth... until we experience a higher gravitational pull
elsewhere (as when the Apollo astronauts got into orbit around the
Moon, the center of which then became the "down" source for them, but
not for us). A rocket which achieves escape velocity from the Earth
(and the Moon) is still in the gravity well of the Sun, so that "down"
is the direction towards the center of the Sun, towards which that
rocket will eventually (and literally) "fall" unless it can achieve
escape velocity of the Sun (or rocket off to some other planet). If it
could do THAT, then it would be in the gravity well of either the next
nearest star (if there happens to be one around) or of the entire
Galaxy, although its acceleration vector in the direction of
Sagittarius A will not be all that high, since it's so damn far away
(around 30,000 lightyears).
Thus, even though there is ALWAYS an "up" and a "down" wherever in the
Universe you space-travellers may be, the feel of the gravitational
pull of the source of the gravity well you're in will most probably be
unfelt, off-set by the forward-rocketing acceleration of the ship. The
force of gravity is an acceleration, which can be off-set by
accelerating in a direction perpendicular to it (as in the Space
Shuttle during its orbit around the Earth, where it is in "free-fall"
circling around the center of the planet).

Does that answer your question, T?

Patrick

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 11/3/02 9:02:14 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
>
> > Nor did he label the "Forbidden Zone"
>
> Actually, that black dotted line down the middle of the map is supposed to be the line of demarcation for the terrible Forbidden Zone.
> [Unable to display image]

*** Yeah, but there's no "up" to a dotted (actually, dashed) line.
Unless the line is a line of LATITUDE or LONGITUDE, like an
"international date line" or the Equator or one of the Tropics (of
Cancer or Capricorn), a "line" on a map has absolutely no directional
value whatsoever.
What I meant by a "label" for the Forbidden Zone was the actual two
words "FORBIDDEN ZONE" printed in readable letters on the map. In
MARVEL's comicbook adaptation, the picture of Taylor pointing at the
Map shows the Zone labeled with the words "FORBIDDEN ZONE"; of course,
the map drawn by the comic book artist doesn't look anything like the
map that's in the movie. As I said, the image MARVEL cooked up for the
map "doesn't count".

Patrick

.htmlIn a message dated 11/3/02 10:42:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

Yeah, but there's no "up" to a dotted (actually, dashed) line.

Oh, I agree with you there.  I was just pointing out that dotted line.
I think the best proof that Cornelius is holding the map sideways is that at the end of the movie Taylor is clearly riding NORTH up the Atlantic shoreline.  Has anyone here argued that he isn't?  I can't remember if James has or not.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/3/02 10:42:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

As I said, the image MARVEL cooked up for the map "doesn't count".

Patrick

As far as I'm concerned NOTHING Marvel cooked up counts.

-- Rory<.html

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:

> <A HREF="http://us.imdb.com/CommentsShow?0063442">Click here: Planet of =

the Apes (1968)</A>

>
> Hey, Patrick!!!
>
> Check out the three comments I've left on the Internet Movie Database, in=

cluding two classic PLANET reviews. And then I challenge YOU, Patrick, mini=
ster of verbosity, to leave the ultimate comment on your favorite movie. To=
o bad you'll be limited to a 1000 words.

>
> Why doesn't everybody else here leave comments on IMDB.com?
>
> -- Rory

*** Rory, after reading the first 20 comments (of which 3 of them were
yours--2 of those being prior reviews), I must say that the most on-
the-mark review was... yours! Aside from one or two quibbles, I must
say that you summed up what makes PLANET one of the best films ever
made. I disagree with you about the quality of the sequels (hey, the
budgetary restrictions compromised them a bit, but they STILL made
worthy films... even BATTLE!), but all the superlatives you gave to
PLANET were right on. And your review was easily the most informed
one, too. Kudos, you magnificent human bastard!
Maybe someday I'll put in my 2¢ on the IMDB... but you pretty much
said everything I would have needed to say. As effective as it was for
you, at 8 years of age, to see it in the theater (you lucky son of a
bitch!), I remember being around 7 years old sitting in front of a
black-and-white TV set, unblinkingly taking in my first experience of
PLANET OF THE APES. There was a lot of it that was way above my head
(I WAS just 7, after all) back then, but there was no denying the
effect of that movie... from the mood of the trek through the
Forbidden Zone (Goldsmith's score), to the frenetic hunt sequence, to
the chase through Ape City (the Ape Church, Museum, Marketplace,
etc.), to that haunting final image of the Statue...

Wow!

I was around 8 or so when I first saw BENEATH (again, on a black-and-
white TV set), and the unmasking-of-the-Mutants scene had an effect on
me that was just as powerful as the ending of PLANET... probably more
so, because I could imagine seeing the congregation of St. Anthony's
Parish (the church my parents dragged me & my brother to when we were
helpless kids!) doing the same thing--Man, it freaked me out!

Patrick

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 11/3/02 10:42:22 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
>
> > Yeah, but there's no "up" to a dotted (actually, dashed) line.
> >
>
> Oh, I agree with you there. I was just pointing out that dotted line. I think the best proof that Cornelius is holding the map sideways is that at the end of the movie Taylor is clearly riding NORTH up the Atlantic shoreline. Has anyone here argued that he isn't? I can't remember if James has or not.
>
> -- Rory

*** Actually, the "eastern" coastline of the United States meanders,
and depending on where you are the coastline could be North/South,
East/West, Northeast/Southwest, anything.
I, of course, conclude that the map is sideways because Cornelius (who
is the most likely candidate for the drawing of the Map in the first
place) says that the last time he and Zira saw Taylor he was heading
"towards the NORTH"--and that means to the RIGHT along the ocean's
shoreline, along the bottom of the land mass on the Map, AWAY from the
Ape City area on the left side. Cornelius is a mapmaker ("I can even
draw one!" he tells Lewis), who had BEEN to the Zone; he's a scientist
who makes maps! (At least ONE map, anyway) If HE can't tell North from
South or East or whatever, then NOTHING he says should be taken
seriously. I think he's competent enough to know that the direction he
points Brent in ("right"-ward on the map) is NORTH. Dead Lake is in
"our eastern desert" TO THE NORTH OF "APE CITY", and there's probably
a "western desert" too, which is ALSO to the NORTH of Ape City, just
further away from the Ocean... which is literally EASTWARD of
everything on Cornelius' map--all that blue water on the BOTTOM of the
map.

Patrick

.htmlIn a message dated 11/3/02 11:06:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

As effective as it was for you, at 8 years of age, to see it in the theater (you lucky son of a bitch!), I remember being around 7 years old sitting in front of a
black-and-white TV set, unblinkingly taking in my first experience of
PLANET OF THE APES.

Thanks for the compliments on my review.

I too only had a black and white TV to watch as a kid, that is until 1970 when I was 11.  Somehow, my memories of watching "The Wizard of Oz" or "How the Grinch Stole Christmas" in the '60s are in color, though I know it was on black and white TVs.

How old are you, Patrick?  I would assume you saw PLANET when it was first shown on TV in 1973, so if you were seven then that would make you around 36 now, which would mean you were around two when PLANET was released in '68.  Why didn't your parents take you to see it when you were two!  What's wrong with some parents?

-- Rory<.html

Attachments :

.htmlI've always contended that Taylor was riding north. Which explains Cornelius', "Towards the north" comment in Beneath. However, since the Forbidden Zone is repeatedly refered as 'our eastern desert' by Zauis and the journey to the Statue is presented as minutes, rather than the days it would take if Taylor was riding from North Carolina, as well as there being nothing in the film to indicate that the map was turned sideways; I take what was presented in the film at face value rather than try to shoehorn in some crazy theory that the map was turned sideways. That's almost as bad a believing in the mothership.

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> Oh, I agree with you there.  I was just pointing out that dotted line.
> I think the best proof that Cornelius is holding the map sideways is that at
> the end of the movie Taylor is clearly riding NORTH up the Atlantic
> shoreline.  Has anyone here argued that he isn't?  I can't remember if James
> has or not.
>
> -- Rory

<.html

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 11/3/02 11:06:17 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
>
> > As effective as it was for you, at 8 years of age, to see it in the the=

ater (you lucky son of a bitch!), I remember being around 7 years old sittin=
g in front of a black-and-white TV set, unblinkingly taking in my first expe=
rience of PLANET OF THE APES.

>
> Thanks for the compliments on my review.
>
> I too only had a black and white TV to watch as a kid, that is until 1970=

when I was 11. Somehow, my memories of watching "The Wizard of Oz" or "How=
the Grinch Stole Christmas" in the '60s are in color, though I know it was =
on black and white TVs.

>
> How old are you, Patrick? I would assume you saw PLANET when it was firs=

t shown on TV in 1973, so if you were seven then that would make you around =
36 now, which would mean you were around two when PLANET was released in '68=
. Why didn't your parents take you to see it when you were two! What's wro=
ng with some parents?

>
> -- Rory

*** My birthdate ("Earth-Time"!) is 1 March 1965, which would have
made me 8 years old in 1973 (my parents named me "Patrick" because I
was born in March--the same month which is known primarily for "St.
Patrick's Day" on the 17th; I was named "Patrick" so that they could
remember what month I was born in! Had I been born in December, I'm
convinced they'd have named me "Jesus"!).
I thought PLANET was first shown on TV in 1972, which is why I said I
was "around 7 years old" when I first saw it. I'm sure Jeff could
pinpoint the exact date (Central Standard Time) when PLANET first
aired on CBS. It might've been 1973, I guess.
So, I was 3 when PLANET hit the theaters. Why didn't my parents take
me (and my 2 brothers & our sister) to the movies? For the life of me,
I'll never figure out why my dad & mom didn't go out to the movies...
since they were ACTORS in the local community theater (my dad was the
resident director here for a number of years--his Masters degree was
in Theater Arts)! The first movie I ever saw with my parents IN A
THEATER (as opposed to on a B&W TV at home) was when one of my
brothers and I used our paper route money to buy us all tickets to go
see "YOUNG FRANKENSTEIN" (I think it was in "second run") and, later,
"CLOSE ENCOUNTERS". Aside from those, I don't remember my parents ever
GOING to see a movie, on the "big screen".
It might have had something to do with their goddamned smoking habits.
I think it was torture for them to sit for 2 hours or so without being
able to puff away on their "Benson & Hedges" cancer-sticks. At home,
in front of the TV, they could smoke & smoke & smoke... ugh! I got
grossed out by cigarette-smoking from the get-go.
But I do have fond memories of them screaming with laughter when
Fronkonsteen's fiancée sings "Ohhh, sweet mystery of life, at last
I've found youuuu..." Ah, priceless!

Patrick

.htmlIn a message dated 11/3/02 11:25:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

I take what was presented in the film at face value rather than try to shoehorn in some crazy theory that the map was turned sideways.

Oh, here we go again!  But what the hell!

There's nothing "crazy" about thinking that Cornelius is holding the map sideways in PLANET.  Patrick just reiterated what I've said before about what Cornelius says in BENEATH, and since both you, James, and Patrick consider BENEATH as a literal "part two" of the story in PLANET, then what's so crazy?   I believe the map is being held sideways for reasons you know too well, but the BENEATH arguement seems like good support to me.

But let's not get carried away with this map thing again.

-- Rory <.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/3/02 11:38:12 AM Eastern Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

I'm sure Jeff could pinpoint the exact date (Central Standard Time) when PLANET first aired on CBS. It might've been 1973, I guess.

O High and Mighty Grand Potentate of Potadom could, but so can I.

PLANET OF THE APES was first broadcast on TV on the CBS network on September 14, 1973 (Which is why I got the premiere of the TV series wrong when I mentioned it in Sept.  It premiered on Sept. 13, 1974.).   PLANET was the number One highest rated program that week.  I don't remember its rating, but I do remember it got a 60 share of all the TVs on that night.  Back in the days before cable and videos that was a HUGE share of the audience.  I remember it well.  It was a Friday night and I was right there in front of the TV taping the entire broadcast, except commercial, on my Panasonic cassette recorder.  I can still remember what was cut from the film and where some of the commercial breaks were.  Unfortunately, I didn't save that cassette.

-- Rory<.html

But he never says The Forbidden Zone is in the north just that the
last place they saw Taylor and Nova was towards the North. They were
heading North up the east coast along Long Island sound. And to
assume that there is a western desert is just making something up to
prove a crazy theory.

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> Oh, here we go again! But what the hell!
>
> There's nothing "crazy" about thinking that Cornelius is holding
the map
> sideways in PLANET. Patrick just reiterated what I've said before
about what
> Cornelius says in BENEATH, and since both you, James, and Patrick
consider
> BENEATH as a literal "part two" of the story in PLANET, then
what's so crazy?
> I believe the map is being held sideways for reasons you know
too well, but
> the BENEATH arguement seems like good support to me.
>
> But let's not get carried away with this map thing again.
>
> -- Rory

You forgot to add that it began at 8:30PM (est) and after the film
they showed the making of documentary that's on the Behind DVD. And
that the first commercial break was after Landon says "I'm prepared
to die".

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> O High and Mighty Grand Potentate of Potadom could, but so can I.
>
> PLANET OF THE APES was first broadcast on TV on the CBS network on
September
> 14, 1973 (Which is why I got the premiere of the TV series wrong
when I
> mentioned it in Sept. It premiered on Sept. 13, 1974.). PLANET
was the
> number One highest rated program that week. I don't remember its
rating, but
> I do remember it got a 60 share of all the TVs on that night.
Back in the
> days before cable and videos that was a HUGE share of the
audience. I
> remember it well. It was a Friday night and I was right there in
front of
> the TV taping the entire broadcast, except commercial, on my
Panasonic
> cassette recorder. I can still remember what was cut from the
film and where
> some of the commercial breaks were. Unfortunately, I didn't save
that
> cassette.
>
> -- Rory

.htmlIn a message dated 11/3/02 11:58:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

But he never says The Forbidden Zone is in the north just that the
last place they saw Taylor and Nova was towards the North. They were
heading North up the east coast along Long Island sound. And to
assume that there is a western desert is just making something up to
prove a crazy theory.

But James, you contend that the "Dead Sea" is what was Long Island sound.  Why would Taylor, who's riding up the Atlantic coast at the end of PLANET, turn inland to ride along the Dead Sea?  He knows what he's going to find there -- nothing! -- so why would he go there?  And if there isn't a western desert then what isolates the apes from the rest of the continent?  Of course there's also a western desert, that's why the eastern desert is called the eastern desert!

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/3/02 12:03:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

You forgot to add that it began at 8:30PM (est) and after the film
they showed the making of documentary that's on the Behind DVD. And
that the first commercial break was after Landon says "I'm prepared
to die".

You are absolutely correct, sir!  They also cut out the "Doesn't that make you misty?" lines, AND they cut the "God damn" out of the last lines!

-- Rory<.html

No the Dead Sea is the lake Taylor is pointing to in the map I
posted earlier. The cave and the Statue are along the coast of Long
Island sound.
And who ever said that the Apes are isolated from the rest of the
continent? There is nothing in Planet or even in Beneath to suggest
that.

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> But James, you contend that the "Dead Sea" is what was Long Island
sound.
> Why would Taylor, who's riding up the Atlantic coast at the end of
PLANET,
> turn inland to ride along the Dead Sea? He knows what he's going
to find
> there -- nothing! -- so why would he go there? And if there isn't
a western
> desert then what isolates the apes from the rest of the
continent? Of course
> there's also a western desert, that's why the eastern desert is
called the
> eastern desert!
>
> -- Rory

.htmlIn a message dated 11/3/02 1:19:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

No the Dead Sea is the lake Taylor is pointing to in the map I
posted earlier. The cave and the Statue are along the coast of Long
Island sound.
And who ever said that the Apes are isolated from the rest of the
continent? There is nothing in Planet or even in Beneath to suggest
that. 

Have we been watching the same movies?!!!!<.html

I hope so. Tell what in Planet or Beneath suggests that the Apes are
isolated from the rest of the continent.

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> Have we been watching the same movies?!!!!

.htmlIn a message dated 11/3/02 2:09:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

I hope so. Tell what in Planet or Beneath suggests that the Apes are
isolated from the rest of the continent.

Well, if you look at Cornelius' map there's nothing around the green area that Cornelius indicates Ape City is in.  I've always looked at it as the Apes live in a small, isolated society surrounded be desert with just a few "green belts."   I have also always assumed the total ape population to be rather small, perhaps not more than a few hundred thousands, if even that.  This would account for the society not progressing very much in two thousand years.  I think the apes have spent centuries trying to kill off a larger human population, and that when we get to the events of PLANET and BENEATH that process of human eradication is nearly complete.

So, there you go!

-- Rory<.html

Well, if you want to get competitive, I am happy to concede that you win
hand down in the barfing up drivel olympics Patricia.

How's that sex change operation coming along? Still ducking?

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@...]
> Sent: Monday, 4 November 2002 0:35
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Gimme an "S"! [OT]
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., mlccougar@a... wrote:
> > In a message dated 11/2/2002 9:28:55 AM Central Standard Time,
> > patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
> >
> >
> > >
> > > *** What, pray tell, is "the SN" which you (among others)
> "only" use? I'm guessin' that the "N" in "SN" means "Name"... but
> what does the "S" stand for? Don't you know that "PseudoNym"
> starts with a "P"?
>
> > My, my, my... The groups 'lil genius doesn't know that SN
> simply means "Screen Name"... For someone who allegedly so highly
> superior in intellect, how could that one have gotten by you?
>
> *** First off, I've never claimed to be a genius, nor have I--like
> Montalban's "Khan"--claimed to have a "superior intellect".
> Secondly, NOBODY KNOWS EVERYTHING--and only a fool would claim to do
> so. There's plenty that I do NOT know, and my asking the question
> above is a frank admission of the lack of a specific tidbit of
> knowledge.
> Thirdly, since I've NEVER seen the acronym "SN" anywhere before--and
> most certainly NOT on this Yahoo discussion group--and since the word
> "screen" is USUALLY utilized in reference to the MOTION PICTURE
> industry (as in "SCREENplay" or "SCREENwriter", as opposed to
> "Teleplay") and NOT in reference to the home/personal computer (why
> not HCN, or PCN?), it didn't seem likely to me that the "S" in "SN"
> would stand for "screen".
> You seem to think that anybody who sits in front of a computer MUST
> know every single little computer-nerd term/abbreviation/whatever.
> When I first started posting on this site, I had read every single
> message, from #1 on up, and NEVER have I seen "SN" used anywhere.
> Hell, maybe I missed it, IF it has been used... but I don't recall
> seeing it, and I've read through 'em all, including the waste-of-time
> ones (i.e. most of the drivel you & Mike barf up).
>
> Patrick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: Haristas@... [Haristas@...]
Sent: Monday, 4 November 2002 1:24
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Check out Planet of the Apes (1968)

Click here: Planet of the Apes (1968)

Hey, Patrick!!!

Check out the three comments I've left on the Internet Movie Database, including two classic PLANET reviews.  And then I challenge YOU, Patrick, minister of verbosity, to leave the ultimate comment on your favorite movie.  Too bad you'll be limited to a 1000 words.

Why doesn't everybody else here leave comments on IMDB.com?

-- Rory
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 8:43 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: "I can even draw one!"

In a message dated 11/3/02 11:25:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

I take what was presented in the film at face value rather than try to shoehorn in some crazy theory that the map was turned sideways.

Oh, here we go again!  But what the hell!

There's nothing "crazy" about thinking that Cornelius is holding the map sideways in PLANET.  Patrick just reiterated what I've said before about what Cornelius says in BENEATH, and since both you, James, and Patrick consider BENEATH as a literal "part two" of the story in PLANET, then what's so crazy?   I believe the map is being held sideways for reasons you know too well, but the BENEATH arguement seems like good support to me.

But let's not get carried away with this map thing again.

-- Rory
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

<.html

OK Patrick

All insults aside, I think you are a little out of your league with your
comments on religion.

You seem to be confusing belief in god with acceptance/coveting of all the
bad things that have been done in the name of god.

Your comments only highlight your ignorance.

Believing in a god simply means a belief that we have been created, it does
not mean one condones the Spanish Inquisition.

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@...]
> Sent: Monday, 4 November 2002 1:40
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Religion IS a relevant and CRUCIAL topic
> for POTA
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > Patrick,
> >
> > You seem to have lost track again.
> >
> > This post is full of trivia that may be interesting to
> academics, but to a POTA chat group? And the time and energy you
> expend....why don't you use that time and energy to get yourself laid?
> >
> > Have you seen "A Beautiful Mind" Patrick?
> >
> > Michael
>
> *** Lost track? I was ranting about the folly of Religion, a topic
> which concerns the culminating moment in the POTA saga--the
> "destruction of Earth" (as Zira called it). The Mutants WORSHIP a
> "Doomsday" Alpha Omega Bomb--it's their f***ing RELIGION. The Ape army
> first gets the blessing of their simian religious leader(s), who refer
> to their "HOLY war, undertaken for [their God's] sake": the Apes are
> going on a JIHAD, philosophically not unlike the jihad against the
> West currently being promulgated by assholes like Osama bin Laden.
> Ursus almost detonates the Bomb due to his own ignorance ("I'll find a
> way to stop it!"), prevented only by Brent distracting him by banging
> on the pipe organ of St. Patrick's Cathedral--this "Doomsday... the
> "end of the world" is triggered IN A HOUSE OF RELIGION. The movie,
> BENEATH, was Satire and Allegory--forms of storytelling which
> purposely make use of SYMBOLISM to add extra meaning... so the choice
> of having Mendez's bomb-worshipping community house their "god" in the
> ruins of a cathedral HAS MEANING. Is that "meaning" a PRO-RELIGION
> message, or an ANTI-RELIGION message? Isn't it OBVIOUS to you that
> BENEATH portrays Religion as one of the pivotal causes of the TOTAL
> ANNIHILATION OF THE PLANET EARTH?
> Get a clue, Mike! The POTA saga does NOT have very nice things to say
> about Religion. The word "satire", in Chinese characters, literally
> means "laughter with knives"--the kind of laughter that deep down
> isn't really all that funny, because it exposes our own follies and
> stupidities. The waging of a "holy war" is the ultimate in human
> folly, and the result is hardly funny... but guys like George Carlin
> get to the point, eventually, where they're so disillusioned about
> such folly that they get downright HARSH! Go rent Carlin's HBO
> special, "You Are All Diseased", and you'll see what I mean.
>
> My rant was NOT "off-topic", pal. Whether you like it or not, the POTA
> saga is UNFAVORABLE towards Religion, and with good reason. Nowhere in
> it is the notion of a "true religion" ever presented as true--Zaius
> may refer to his "Faith" in such terms, but he reveals himself to be
> as much of a "heretic" (albeit a closeted one) as Cornelius and Zira
> (Taylor: "You're talking HERESY, Doctor!"; Zaius: "Of COURSE!"). The
> message? THE SUPPOSEDLY RELIGIOUS LEADERS DON'T REALLY BELIEVE IN THE
> BULLSHIT THEY MANDATE FOR THE MASSES. They USE Religion as a tool to
> keep their society "in line". The threat of punishment for religious
> unorthodoxy is what gets Cornelius to exclaim to Zira, "Are you trying
> to get my head chopped off?!"
> Caesar, at the end of CONQUEST promises--threatens, really--that the
> Apes will found their OWN Religion (etc.) in which "there will be NO
> PLACE FOR HUMANS EXCEPT TO SERVE OUR ENDS". Is this a pro-Religion
> message, Mike?
> In BATTLE, we open with a peaceful community of Apes and Humans being
> taught a Myth-embellished version of History, where the arrival of the
> Ape-onauts has been LYINGLY reinterpreted as "... so God sent the
> world a Savior..." We, who watched ESCAPE and CONQUEST, know that
> there was no "god" involved in the events which transpired. The
> intentional inclusion of a "God" character by a Scripture-writing Ape
> is a FALSIFICATION of the historical record. The gullible children
> listening to the Lawgiver's recitation will go on to become Believers
> in this false view of history, under the mistaken notion that there IS
> a God out there who not only "sent the world a Savior, miraculously
> born" in their Past, but who will ALSO be able to "save the world"
> from the dangers which led Caesar to deny Mandemus' request to destroy
> the Armory. The Bomb still exists at the end of BATTLE... just waiting
> for the mutating Kolp-less community which Mendez will rule over--a
> man who suggests that Alma REVERE it, since another thing like it
> "made us what we are": radiation-scarred.
>
> I don't know about YOU, Mike, but one of the reasons I admire the POTA
> saga so much is that it confronts the topic of Religion full-on, and
> tells it (satirically) like it truly is. Religion is portrayed as
> foolish and DANGEROUS. The man who destroys the entire planet--Colonel
> George Taylor--is a man who is, at heart, a MISANTHROPE, a despiser of
> his fellow human beings; at the end of PLANET he literally calls upon
> God to condemn the entire human race to Hell, as punishment for having
> blown up their civilization. The reason FOX didn't have to edit that
> profanity out of the picture is because Heston pointed out that Taylor
> LITERALLY MEANT WHAT HE SCREAMED OUT. He was literally calling upon
> God to "Damn [Humanity] all to Hell!"
> What do you suppose THAT has to say about Religion?!
>
> Patrick
>
> P.S. No, I haven't seen "A Beautiful Mind" yet. It's on my list of
> movies to rent. After reading (a few posts back) about that Darron
> Aronovsky (sp?) flick "Pi", I decided to rent it... and I liked it.
> It's especially neat to "do the math" regarding the very last line of
> dialogue in it (spoken by that little girl with the calculator-toy).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Penis envy

> -----Original Message-----
> From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@...]
> Sent: Monday, 4 November 2002 1:49
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] 2 words
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., mlccougar@a... wrote:
> > In a message dated 11/2/2002 10:56:04 PM Central Standard Time,
> > whitty@c... writes:
> >
> >
> > > Two words:
> > >
> > > Raving Lunatic
> >
> >
> > 2 more words about Patty Whack: Fuc*in' a**hole
>
> *** My, oh my... how typical of you two! If you can't dazzle 'em with
> brilliance or insightfulness, hurl excrement like a pissed-off
> chimpanzee! You're sure to win all your arguments THAT way.
>
> I've got "two words" for you lousy human bastards: Beneath Contempt.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I like Beneath!

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@...]
> Sent: Monday, 4 November 2002 1:49
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] 2 words
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., mlccougar@a... wrote:
> > In a message dated 11/2/2002 10:56:04 PM Central Standard Time,
> > whitty@c... writes:
> >
> >
> > > Two words:
> > >
> > > Raving Lunatic
> >
> >
> > 2 more words about Patty Whack: Fuc*in' a**hole
>
> *** My, oh my... how typical of you two! If you can't dazzle 'em with
> brilliance or insightfulness, hurl excrement like a pissed-off
> chimpanzee! You're sure to win all your arguments THAT way.
>
> I've got "two words" for you lousy human bastards: Beneath Contempt.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Glad you cleared that up

> -----Original Message-----
> From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@...]
> Sent: Monday, 4 November 2002 1:58
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Mannlicher/"Man Licker" [OT]
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> > In a message dated 11/2/2002 9:35:43 AM Central Standard Time,
> > patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
> >
> > > *** Fair enough! Being a "wiseass" is probably just as good as
> > > being "wise", anyway.
> >
> > At least you have a sense of humor.
> > Man Licker Carcano?
> > Yeah I always thought that too.
> > I don't know how the Warren Commission could say it and keep a
> straight face.
> > No sense of humor at all.
>
> *** In his novel about Oswald (and, for the life of me, I can't
> remember the damn title!), Ron DeLillo (? sp?) has David Ferrie make a
> joking reference to the infamous rifle as a "Man Licker"; Ferrie was a
> "fairy" in real life (in Stone's "JFK", he was the guy played by Joe
> Pesci), as was Clay Shaw/"Bertrand"... not that there's anything WRONG
> with it! Most homosexuals, though, don't plot to murder the President.
>
> Patrick
>
> P.S. When they first found "the rifle" in the Texas School Book
> Depository, they revealed it to be a Mauser; an off-duty cop (whose
> name eludes me) who was there when they held it up says he saw the
> word "Mauser" plainly on the rifle butt. Just one more reason to raise
> an eyebrow regarding the "official" finding that "Oswald-did-it-alone"
> and that there was no conspiracy to kill Kennedy.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 8:43 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: "I can even draw one!"

In a message dated 11/3/02 11:25:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

I take what was presented in the film at face value rather than try to shoehorn in some crazy theory that the map was turned sideways.

Oh, here we go again!  But what the hell!

There's nothing "crazy" about thinking that Cornelius is holding the map sideways in PLANET.  Patrick just reiterated what I've said before about what Cornelius says in BENEATH, and since both you, James, and Patrick consider BENEATH as a literal "part two" of the story in PLANET, then what's so crazy?   I believe the map is being held sideways for reasons you know too well, but the BENEATH arguement seems like good support to me.

But let's not get carried away with this map thing again.

-- Rory
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/3/2002 10:05:40 AM Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

since Uranus is tilted almost 90 degrees off-kilter

There's a joke there somewhere, but I'm not going to touch it.

That aside, one last question.
Are galaxies then on the same axis, apart from any Uranal aberrations.

<.html

T

Stop getting Patrick to write your thesis!

Michael

--- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:
>
> Hey there Pat, I got a question that only you can answer.
Actually I'm
not even sure you can answer it. It's not entirety off topic, since
Apes is
a Space Opera and this is about space. I got to wondering if all
planetary
poles line up. That is to say, do we all spinning at the same axis.
I
guess what I'm really asking is, is there an up in space? I suppose
there's
nothing that says north is actually up. Except that the maps would
look
awfully funny with all the pointy bits of the continents pointing
up. But
do all north poles point up? Whatever up means -- the same direction
that
is. Put it the way . . .If I fly to Mars in a flying saucer and
leave Earth
with north as more or less UP and don't change the attitude of the
ship,
will the Martian north pole be more or less at the top of the
planet. I
guess we can call this segment . . .Ask Pat.

*** Good question(s), T. I'll give it a whirl.
I believe it's conventional that any rotating rigid celestial body (be
it a planet, a moon, or a star) is given a "north/south" designation
if it is rotating on its axis counter-clockwise (as seen from above
the "north" hemisphere: "west-to-east"). This is true for MOST of the
planets in the Solar System--but not for ALL, since Uranus is tilted
almost 90 degrees off-kilter, so that its spin axis is nearly parallel
to the plane of its orbit (roughly, the Ecliptic), rather than nearly
perpendicular to it: the Earth is inclined 23.5 degrees from perfect
perpendicularity (90 degrees), but is MOSTLY (66.5 degrees) oriented
with its "north" pole aligned with the spin-direction of its near-
circular orbit around the Sun. That 23.5 degrees of tilt gives us our
seasons, of course.
Interestingly, though, that "above-North-pole" counter-clockwise view
does NOT apply to all rotating systems. The Milky Way Galaxy's stars
orbit CLOCKWISE around the "Sagittarius A" center when viewed from
"above" the "North" hemispheroid of the Galaxy. That's because the
"Galactic North Pole" is, by convention, that pole which is in the
Northern celestial hemisphere, rather than the other one.
The only "up" in space depends on where you (or your ship) happens to
be. Every "point" in Cartesian space is somewhere in the gravity well
of some celestial body. The direction "down" is towards the center of
mass of the Earth... until we experience a higher gravitational pull
elsewhere (as when the Apollo astronauts got into orbit around the
Moon, the center of which then became the "down" source for them, but
not for us). A rocket which achieves escape velocity from the Earth
(and the Moon) is still in the gravity well of the Sun, so that "down"
is the direction towards the center of the Sun, towards which that
rocket will eventually (and literally) "fall" unless it can achieve
escape velocity of the Sun (or rocket off to some other planet). If it
could do THAT, then it would be in the gravity well of either the next
nearest star (if there happens to be one around) or of the entire
Galaxy, although its acceleration vector in the direction of
Sagittarius A will not be all that high, since it's so damn far away
(around 30,000 lightyears).
Thus, even though there is ALWAYS an "up" and a "down" wherever in the
Universe you space-travellers may be, the feel of the gravitational
pull of the source of the gravity well you're in will most probably be
unfelt, off-set by the forward-rocketing acceleration of the ship. The
force of gravity is an acceleration, which can be off-set by
accelerating in a direction perpendicular to it (as in the Space
Shuttle during its orbit around the Earth, where it is in "free-fall"
circling around the center of the planet).

Does that answer your question, T?

Patrick

I think smoking was permitted in cinemas here until about 1978.

When was it banned over there?

Michael

> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
>
> > As effective as it was for you, at 8 years of age, to see it in

the the=

ater (you lucky son of a bitch!), I remember being around 7 years old
sittin=

g in front of a black-and-white TV set, unblinkingly taking in my
first
expe=

rience of PLANET OF THE APES.

>
> Thanks for the compliments on my review.
>
> I too only had a black and white TV to watch as a kid, that is

until 1970=

when I was 11. Somehow, my memories of watching "The Wizard of Oz"
or
"How=

the Grinch Stole Christmas" in the '60s are in color, though I know
it was
=

on black and white TVs.

>
> How old are you, Patrick? I would assume you saw PLANET when it

was firs=

t shown on TV in 1973, so if you were seven then that would make you
around
=

36 now, which would mean you were around two when PLANET was released
in
'68=

. Why didn't your parents take you to see it when you were two!
What's
wro=

ng with some parents?

>
> -- Rory

*** My birthdate ("Earth-Time"!) is 1 March 1965, which would have
made me 8 years old in 1973 (my parents named me "Patrick" because I
was born in March--the same month which is known primarily for "St.
Patrick's Day" on the 17th; I was named "Patrick" so that they could
remember what month I was born in! Had I been born in December, I'm
convinced they'd have named me "Jesus"!).
I thought PLANET was first shown on TV in 1972, which is why I said I
was "around 7 years old" when I first saw it. I'm sure Jeff could
pinpoint the exact date (Central Standard Time) when PLANET first
aired on CBS. It might've been 1973, I guess.
So, I was 3 when PLANET hit the theaters. Why didn't my parents take
me (and my 2 brothers & our sister) to the movies? For the life of me,
I'll never figure out why my dad & mom didn't go out to the movies...
since they were ACTORS in the local community theater (my dad was the
resident director here for a number of years--his Masters degree was
in Theater Arts)! The first movie I ever saw with my parents IN A
THEATER (as opposed to on a B&W TV at home) was when one of my
brothers and I used our paper route money to buy us all tickets to go
see "YOUNG FRANKENSTEIN" (I think it was in "second run") and, later,
"CLOSE ENCOUNTERS". Aside from those, I don't remember my parents ever
GOING to see a movie, on the "big screen".
It might have had something to do with their goddamned smoking habits.
I think it was torture for them to sit for 2 hours or so without being
able to puff away on their "Benson & Hedges" cancer-sticks. At home,
in front of the TV, they could smoke & smoke & smoke... ugh! I got
grossed out by cigarette-smoking from the get-go.
But I do have fond memories of them screaming with laughter when
Fronkonsteen's fianc�e sings "Ohhh, sweet mystery of life, at last
I've found youuuu..." Ah, priceless!

Patrick

.htmlIn a message dated 11/3/2002 4:05:54 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

Stop getting Patrick to write your thesis!

I'm not taking a science this semester.  It's just something I wondered while watching a spaceship on TV.  It isn't my fault Patrick can't give yes or no answers.  I just figured he'd know.  I did know that something out there was spinning sideways, but I though it was just one of Jupiter's moons or something.  I just wanted some confirmation there was some sort of up, not a dissertation.  Anyway it was OT.  You don't have to read it.  I read the whole thing, for once, but it wasn't as interesting as the fact that Pat has never seen Apes in the theater.  I saw it in the theater.  First run -- I was 7 too.  I'm amazed that the film can have such a powerful effect on the small screen.  I showed the video to my nephew when he was 7.  But I got the impression he didn't think it was quite as cool as the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

<.html

I still have audio cassettes of Conquest and Battle.

I taped these at the drive - in on a portable Panasonic
Radio/Cassette player.

I used to listen to it all the time too....maybe TOO much.....

Michael


In a message dated 11/3/02 11:38:12 AM Eastern Standard Time,
patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:



I'm sure Jeff could pinpoint the exact date (Central Standard Time)
when PLANET first aired on CBS. It might've been 1973, I guess.



O High and Mighty Grand Potentate of Potadom could, but so can I.

PLANET OF THE APES was first broadcast on TV on the CBS network on
September 14, 1973 (Which is why I got the premiere of the TV series
wrong when I mentioned it in Sept. It premiered on Sept. 13,
1974.). PLANET was the number One highest rated program that week.
I don't remember its rating, but I do remember it got a 60 share of
all the TVs on that night. Back in the days before cable and videos
that was a HUGE share of the audience. I remember it well. It was a
Friday night and I was right there in front of the TV taping the
entire broadcast, except commercial, on my Panasonic cassette
recorder. I can still remember what was cut from the film and where
some of the commercial breaks were. Unfortunately, I didn't save
that cassette.

-- Rory

.htmlIn a message dated 11/3/2002 8:16:57 AM Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

Could this be from video sales?

I wouldn't think so, since there is no box-office for video sales.  But who knows.  The amount of money seems to fall pretty much in line with the quality of the films.  That being the case, why is Beneath above Escape?  Goes back to what I've always said about Beneath.  Beneath wasn't as good a film, but Beneath was on the Planet.  Even though by then we know it's Earth.  It still has that "Distant Land" feel being so far in the future.  I liked what Richard Dreyfuss said about Chuck being able to transport us forward or backward in time.  So true.  That Wahlberg geezer couldn't transport me around the corner.  I still can't think what present day actor carries as much weight.  Hard sandals to fill.<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/3/2002 8:23:03 AM Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

Why doesn't everybody else here leave comments on IMDB.com?

I have about other films, but not POTA.  I feel I'd have to spend a lot of time to get it right, and I'm not the typist Pat is.<.html

All right then, I'll answer your question.

When you are floating in outer space there is no set up or down.
Nobody has to my knowledge invented a "space compass".

However, relative to your position and the direction of the roof of
the ship, you could be forgiven for looking on a map in front of you
and saying "Let's go up" or "Let's go down" to that planet, depending
on the way you are looking at the map from your perspective at the
time.

Of course, if you move the map you may have to correct yourself.

Michael

--- LordTZer0@... wrote:

> In a message dated 11/3/2002 4:05:54 PM Central Standard Time,
> whitty@... writes:
>
> > Stop getting Patrick to write your thesis!
> >
> I'm not taking a science this semester. It's just something I

wondered while

> watching a spaceship on TV. It isn't my fault Patrick can't give

yes or no

> answers. I just figured he'd know. I did know that something out

there was

> spinning sideways, but I though it was just one of Jupiter's moons

or

> something. I just wanted some confirmation there was some sort of

up, not a

> dissertation. Anyway it was OT. You don't have to read it. I

read the

> whole thing, for once, but it wasn't as interesting as the fact

that Pat has

> never seen Apes in the theater. I saw it in the theater. First

run -- I was

> 7 too. I'm amazed that the film can have such a powerful effect on

the small

> screen. I showed the video to my nephew when he was 7. But I got

the

> impression he didn't think it was quite as cool as the Teenage

Mutant Ninja

> Turtles.
>

.htmlStrange, but if you believe in the conspiracy theories, not really.  The Mauser is a fine shoulder weapon.  Whereas the "Man Licker" is a POS, military nomenclature for Piece Of Shit.  But speaking of raising eyebrows, what was up with Fairy's (Ferrie's) eyebrows?  I know he lost them to chemo and pasted fake ones on, and yet could they have looked like that before they fell out?  I think it's possible.  Just look at Mohammed Atta's!  He's the spittting image, and I dooooo mean spitting!  Patoooie!

*** In his novel about Oswald (and, for the life of me, I can't
remember the damn title!), Ron DeLillo (? sp?) has David Ferrie make a
joking reference to the infamous rifle as a "Man Licker"; Ferrie was a
"fairy" in real life (in Stone's "JFK", he was the guy played by Joe
Pesci), as was Clay Shaw/"Bertrand"... not that there's anything WRONG
with it! Most homosexuals, though, don't plot to murder the President.

Patrick

P.S. When they first found "the rifle" in the Texas School Book
Depository, they revealed it to be a Mauser; an off-duty cop (whose
name eludes me) who was there when they held it up says he saw the
word "Mauser" plainly on the rifle butt. Just one more reason to raise
an eyebrow regarding the "official" finding that "Oswald-did-it-alone"
and that there was no conspiracy to kill Kennedy.

<.html

Attachments :

.html

*** Sexbots, you say? Bring 'em on! I'll take a "Cherry 2000" model,
por favor, señor...
Anybody else see that B-flick? For low-budget, I thought it was okay

Yes, I enjoyed it.  But I still like Chobits better.  There something about a gal that can only say one word.  I know, I know.  I said that Zira would be more fun than Nova on a date.  But Nova couldn't say any words, at least not until right before she died.  Besides, you haven't heard the expression Chii puts into the word Chii.  And she does learn to talk eventually.


Free Chobits anime's are available on all major file sharing platforms.

<.html

I still have my cassette. Also cut was Landon's, "Yay yay yay!" as he dove
into the water.

Unfortunately, I missed a couple of seconds after the "Take your stinking
paws off me!" scene while I turned the tape over. In the nearly six years
that I had to wait until I could buy a copy of the videotape, I memorized
this version of the audio with all of its omissions and idiosyncrasies.

Anthony

On Sunday, November 3, 2002, at 11:22 AM, Haristas@... wrote:

> In a message dated 11/3/02 12:03:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, JamesA1102@
> aol.com writes:
>
> You forgot to add that it began at 8:30PM (est) and after the film
> they showed the making of documentary that's on the Behind DVD. And
> that the first commercial break was after Landon says "I'm prepared
> to die".
>
> You are absolutely correct, sir! They also cut out the "Doesn't that make
> you misty?" lines, AND they cut the "God damn" out of the last lines!
>
> -- Rory

That's an interesting and creative assumption. But it is an
assumption. There is really nothing in the film to support it.

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> Well, if you look at Cornelius' map there's nothing around the
green area
> that Cornelius indicates Ape City is in. I've always looked at it
as the
> Apes live in a small, isolated society surrounded be desert with
just a few
> "green belts." I have also always assumed the total ape
population to be
> rather small, perhaps not more than a few hundred thousands, if
even that.
> This would account for the society not progressing very much in
two thousand
> years. I think the apes have spent centuries trying to kill off a
larger
> human population, and that when we get to the events of PLANET and
BENEATH
> that process of human eradication is nearly complete.
>
> So, there you go!
>
> -- Rory

.html
I still have audio cassettes of Conquest and Battle.

I taped these at the drive - in on a portable Panasonic
Radio/Cassette player.

I used to listen to it all the time too....maybe TOO much.....

That's just plain wierd!  Not that I didn't do it too, but when video came out I didn't save the tapes.<.html

About the same time. Soon smoking will be banned in bars as well if
our Mayor gets his way.

--- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> I think smoking was permitted in cinemas here until about 1978.
>
> When was it banned over there?
>
> Michael
>

.htmlIn a message dated 11/3/2002 4:48:45 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

I think smoking was permitted in cinemas here until about 1978.

You're right there.  In fact the backs of the seats used to have these little car type ashtrays on them.

<.html

I've kept most of the more important stuff from my childhood.

Michael

--- LordTZer0@... wrote:

>
> I still have audio cassettes of Conquest and Battle.
>
> I taped these at the drive - in on a portable Panasonic
> Radio/Cassette player.
>
> I used to listen to it all the time too....maybe TOO much.....
>
> That's just plain wierd! Not that I didn't do it too, but when

video came

> out I didn't save the tapes.
>

Done here long ago except there are designated smoking areas...the
latest is in Melbourne they are trying to ban it in the streets too
and assign "ingesting rooms" (versus "injecting rooms" that have been
proposed as "safe houses" for junkies to shoot up).

I gave up 1 December 1996 after starting when I was 8 years old (1
packet a day by 12 years old & then until I gave up), so I am divided
between fading loyalty and feelings of angst.

Michael

--- "james611102" <JamesA1102@...> wrote:

> About the same time. Soon smoking will be banned in bars as well if
> our Mayor gets his way.
>
> --- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > I think smoking was permitted in cinemas here until about 1978.
> >
> > When was it banned over there?
> >
> > Michael
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

>
>
>

.htmlIn a message dated 11/3/2002 5:30:03 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

I've kept most of the more important stuff from my childhood.

Yeah, I'm a pack rat too.  I have television sized boxes, one of audio tapes and two of videos.  Unfortunately I have a habit of putting the good stuff on the same tapes as the crap.  Another unfortunate habit of mine is not bothering to label most tapes.  I can't imagine what gems I've lost to taping over.  And I could probably spend the rest of my natural life trying to edit it all down, and that's if I never worked or went to school another day in my life.

<.html

Indeed.

My brother had an enormous amount of Beta tapes. He added up how
many hours worth and realised that it would be near impossible for
him to view them all in 10 years if he did nothing else (including
sleeping).

Makes you wonder.

Michael

--- LordTZer0@... wrote:

> In a message dated 11/3/2002 5:30:03 PM Central Standard Time,
> whitty@... writes:
>
> > I've kept most of the more important stuff from my childhood.
> >
>
> Yeah, I'm a pack rat too. I have television sized boxes, one of

audio tapes

> and two of videos. Unfortunately I have a habit of putting the

good stuff on

> the same tapes as the crap. Another unfortunate habit of mine is

not

> bothering to label most tapes. I can't imagine what gems I've lost

to taping

> over. And I could probably spend the rest of my natural life

trying to edit

> it all down, and that's if I never worked or went to school another

day in my

> life.
>

.html

About the same time. Soon smoking will be banned in bars as well if
our Mayor gets his way.

Seems like it's headed that way.  As much as I'm trying to quit, I have about one a day, and skip some days, when I get in a bar, I have to have a ciggie in one had to balance the beer in the other.  I guess if they ban it, I'll only go to bars with beergardens or rooftop lounges in them.  If I'm drinking I gotta have a dogger!

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/3/2002 6:08:04 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

My brother had an enormous amount of Beta tapes.  He added up how
many hours worth and realised that it would be near impossible for
him to view them all in 10 years if he did nothing else (including
sleeping).

Ain't it the truth!  I bought an inexpensive Panasonic as a dubbing deck, figuring I could edit down the tapes, doubting I'd have to buy another tape in my life!  I've had it going on a month and haven't edited down one tape yet.  Oh and in the last month I've bought two 5 packs of tapes.  Go figure.

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 4:12 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] The World Before VCRs (OT)

In a message dated 11/3/2002 6:08:04 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

My brother had an enormous amount of Beta tapes.  He added up how
many hours worth and realised that it would be near impossible for
him to view them all in 10 years if he did nothing else (including
sleeping).

Ain't it the truth!  I bought an inexpensive Panasonic as a dubbing deck, figuring I could edit down the tapes, doubting I'd have to buy another tape in my life!  I've had it going on a month and haven't edited down one tape yet.  Oh and in the last month I've bought two 5 packs of tapes.  Go figure.


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

Jeff

This happened to me recently and Yahoo! kept throwing me out, so
don't be surprised if some problems linger.

If this happens, just email one of us privately and we'll let the
group know/post and responses you want published. You'll just need
to read posts through Yahoo! for a while.

Michael

--- <veetus@...> wrote:

> OK, I'm now receiving posts from the group. I had to resubscribe

since I

> couldn't find my ID and password. Damn, there's a lot of POTA

related grou

> ps. We're 50-something in the heirarchy. There's currently 119

people in th

> is group. I will now repost my responses which couldn't be

delivered earlie

> r. They aren't attached to the posts they are replied to so I will

try to s

> troll down memory lane. - - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: LordTZer0@...
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 4:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] The World Before VCRs (OT)
>
>
> In a message dated 11/3/2002 6:08:04 PM Central Standard Time,

whitty@cyb

> erone.com.au writes:
>
>
> My brother had an enormous amount of Beta tapes. He added up

how

> many hours worth and realised that it would be near impossible

for

> him to view them all in 10 years if he did nothing else

(including

> sleeping).
>
>
> Ain't it the truth! I bought an inexpensive Panasonic as a

dubbing deck,

> figuring I could edit down the tapes, doubting I'd have to buy

another tap

> e in my life! I've had it going on a month and haven't edited down

one tap

> e yet. Oh and in the last month I've bought two 5 packs of tapes.

Go figu

> re.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of

Service.

>

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 4:12 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] The World Before VCRs (OT)

In a message dated 11/3/2002 6:08:04 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

My brother had an enormous amount of Beta tapes.  He added up how
many hours worth and realised that it would be near impossible for
him to view them all in 10 years if he did nothing else (including
sleeping).

Ain't it the truth!  I bought an inexpensive Panasonic as a dubbing deck, figuring I could edit down the tapes, doubting I'd have to buy another tape in my life!  I've had it going on a month and haven't edited down one tape yet.  Oh and in the last month I've bought two 5 packs of tapes.  Go figure.


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 4:12 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] The World Before VCRs (OT)

In a message dated 11/3/2002 6:08:04 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

My brother had an enormous amount of Beta tapes.  He added up how
many hours worth and realised that it would be near impossible for
him to view them all in 10 years if he did nothing else (including
sleeping).

Ain't it the truth!  I bought an inexpensive Panasonic as a dubbing deck, figuring I could edit down the tapes, doubting I'd have to buy another tape in my life!  I've had it going on a month and haven't edited down one tape yet.  Oh and in the last month I've bought two 5 packs of tapes.  Go figure.


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 4:12 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] The World Before VCRs (OT)

In a message dated 11/3/2002 6:08:04 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

My brother had an enormous amount of Beta tapes.  He added up how
many hours worth and realised that it would be near impossible for
him to view them all in 10 years if he did nothing else (including
sleeping).

Ain't it the truth!  I bought an inexpensive Panasonic as a dubbing deck, figuring I could edit down the tapes, doubting I'd have to buy another tape in my life!  I've had it going on a month and haven't edited down one tape yet.  Oh and in the last month I've bought two 5 packs of tapes.  Go figure.


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 4:12 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] The World Before VCRs (OT)

In a message dated 11/3/2002 6:08:04 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

My brother had an enormous amount of Beta tapes.  He added up how
many hours worth and realised that it would be near impossible for
him to view them all in 10 years if he did nothing else (including
sleeping).

Ain't it the truth!  I bought an inexpensive Panasonic as a dubbing deck, figuring I could edit down the tapes, doubting I'd have to buy another tape in my life!  I've had it going on a month and haven't edited down one tape yet.  Oh and in the last month I've bought two 5 packs of tapes.  Go figure.


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 4:12 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] The World Before VCRs (OT)

In a message dated 11/3/2002 6:08:04 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

My brother had an enormous amount of Beta tapes.  He added up how
many hours worth and realised that it would be near impossible for
him to view them all in 10 years if he did nothing else (including
sleeping).

Ain't it the truth!  I bought an inexpensive Panasonic as a dubbing deck, figuring I could edit down the tapes, doubting I'd have to buy another tape in my life!  I've had it going on a month and haven't edited down one tape yet.  Oh and in the last month I've bought two 5 packs of tapes.  Go figure.


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

Here's a thought. The $27MM figure was quoted as what Planet made on
it's original release. The film was rereleased several times in the
early '70s. Once on a double bill with Beneath and then as part of
the 'Go Ape' release in '74. Could the BO from those releases been
assigned to Planet?

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> Rory mentioned that POTA's box office had gone up at a certain
site, and asked if Natalie Trundy had a % and whether that included
video: " I assume by "box office" they mean theatres. Note that
that's just the U.S. Maybe there was a marked increase in revival
theatre showings with the new movie. I'm sure video sales were much
more (DVD alone is bringing in more money than films make in
theatres). And note they don't have statistics for the rest of the
world.
> Natalie got what amounts to a "payoff" a couple years ago, but
that's not acceptible. But legal action against a corporation isn't
cheap. David Duchovny sued Fox over X-Files profits and won $200
million but admits he never could have done that if he didn't have
the dough to fight in the first place."

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: james611102

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 6:21 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Rory's BO

Here's a thought. The $27MM figure was quoted as what Planet made on
it's original release. The film was rereleased several times in the
early '70s. Once on a double bill with Beneath and then as part of
the 'Go Ape' release in '74. Could the BO from those releases been
assigned to Planet?

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
>   Rory mentioned that POTA's box office had gone up at a certain
site, and asked if Natalie Trundy had a % and whether that included
video: " I assume by "box office" they mean theatres. Note that
that's just the U.S. Maybe there was a marked increase in revival
theatre showings with the new movie. I'm sure video sales were much
more (DVD alone is bringing in more money than films make in
theatres). And note they don't have statistics for the rest of the
world.
>   Natalie got what amounts to a "payoff" a couple years ago, but
that's not acceptible. But legal action against a corporation isn't
cheap. David Duchovny sued Fox over X-Files profits and won $200
million but admits he never could have done that if he didn't have
the dough to fight in the first place."

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: whitty@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 6:04 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Crisis Averted

Jeff

This happened to me recently and Yahoo! kept throwing me out, so
don't be surprised if some problems linger.

If this happens, just email one of us privately and we'll let the
group know/post and responses you want published.  You'll just need
to read posts through Yahoo! for a while.

Michael

--- <veetus@...> wrote:
>    OK, I'm now receiving posts from the group. I had to resubscribe
since I
>  couldn't find my ID and password. Damn, there's a lot of POTA
related grou
> ps. We're 50-something in the heirarchy. There's currently 119
people in th
> is group. I will now repost my responses which couldn't be
delivered earlie
> r. They aren't attached to the posts they are replied to so I will
try to s
> troll down memory lane. - - - Jeff
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: LordTZer0@...
>   To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 4:12 PM
>   Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] The World Before VCRs (OT)
>
>
>   In a message dated 11/3/2002 6:08:04 PM Central Standard Time,
whitty@cyb
> erone.com.au writes:
>
>
>     My brother had an enormous amount of Beta tapes.  He added up
how
>     many hours worth and realised that it would be near impossible
for
>     him to view them all in 10 years if he did nothing else
(including
>     sleeping).
>
>
>   Ain't it the truth!  I bought an inexpensive Panasonic as a
dubbing deck,
>  figuring I could edit down the tapes, doubting I'd have to buy
another tap
> e in my life!  I've had it going on a month and haven't edited down
one tap
> e yet.  Oh and in the last month I've bought two 5 packs of tapes. 
Go figu
> re.
>
>
>   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: veetus@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 5:30 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Rory's BO

  Rory mentioned that POTA's box office had gone up at a certain site, and asked if Natalie Trundy had a % and whether that included video: " I assume by "box office" they mean theatres. Note that that's just the U.S. Maybe there was a marked increase in revival theatre showings with the new movie. I'm sure video sales were much more (DVD alone is bringing in more money than films make in theatres). And note they don't have statistics for the rest of the world.

  Natalie got what amounts to a "payoff" a couple years ago, but that's not acceptible. But legal action against a corporation isn't cheap. David Duchovny sued Fox over X-Files profits and won $200 million but admits he never could have done that if he didn't have the dough to fight in the first place."

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 4:12 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] The World Before VCRs (OT)

In a message dated 11/3/2002 6:08:04 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

My brother had an enormous amount of Beta tapes.  He added up how
many hours worth and realised that it would be near impossible for
him to view them all in 10 years if he did nothing else (including
sleeping).

Ain't it the truth!  I bought an inexpensive Panasonic as a dubbing deck, figuring I could edit down the tapes, doubting I'd have to buy another tape in my life!  I've had it going on a month and haven't edited down one tape yet.  Oh and in the last month I've bought two 5 packs of tapes.  Go figure.


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/3/02 5:23:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

I still have audio cassettes of Conquest and Battle.

I taped these at the drive - in on a portable Panasonic
Radio/Cassette player.

I first saw CONQUEST at a Drive-in, the only APES movie I ever saw at a Drive-in, and I taped it!  Now they tape them with Video cameras right there in the theatre and sell them on the streets!  I remember sneaking my cassette player into a theatre to tape PLANET back in '71.  I remember being so paranoid I'd get busted and arrested.  I don't have that tape either but I can still remember capturing the audience laughter at certain moments during the movie, and of course everybody always cheered when Taylor said "Get your damn dirty. . .so on."

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/3/02 5:34:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

That being the case, why is Beneath above Escape?  Goes back to what I've always said about Beneath.  Beneath wasn't as good a film, but Beneath was on the Planet.

BENEATH made more profit for Fox than PLANET since its budget was lower.  Fox didn't expect BENEATH was going to be such a hit, but if it wasn't for what BENEATH did at the boxoffice there wouldn't have been anything else after that.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/3/02 5:56:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, abmac@... writes:

I still have my cassette. Also cut was Landon's, "Yay yay yay!" as he dove
into the water.

Unfortunately, I missed a couple of seconds after the "Take your stinking
paws off me!" scene while I turned the tape over. In the nearly six years
that I had to wait until I could buy a copy of the videotape, I memorized
this version of the audio with all of its omissions and idiosyncrasies.

Anthony

They had to cut out that "Yay yay yay!" because the guys asses were shown.

Did I ever tell you guys that when I first saw PLANET in '68 when I was eight, I saw it with my mother and younger sister and brother.  My brother was only five, and when the artronauts showed their butts my brother yelled out "Look, a hinee!"  Everybody in the theatre cracked up.  I remember it like it was yesterday.

-- Rory<.html

Attachments :

.htmlIn a message dated 11/3/02 6:02:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

That's an interesting and creative assumption. But it is an
assumption. There is really nothing in the film to support it.

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/3/02 8:12:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

Rory said he liked movies with snow, and T said he liked movies with mountains, so I said: "  Odd topic, but I like movies with the ocean in it. I particularly like it when the apes are in front of the ocean. Saved "Tomorrow's Tide" for me."

Yeah, I love the end of PLANET too because it's at the ocean.  I also love the desert.  I love all movies with deserts in them: "Lawrence of Arabia,"  "The Flight of the Phoenix," The Sands of the Kalahari," "Legend of the Lost," "The Professionals," etc., etc.   Love desert movies.   I wish in BENEATH they'd gone back to Utah and shot more desert stuff.

-- Rory

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/3/02 9:22:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

Here's a thought. The $27MM figure was quoted as what Planet made on
it's original release. The film was rereleased several times in the
early '70s. Once on a double bill with Beneath and then as part of
the 'Go Ape' release in '74. Could the BO from those releases been
assigned to Planet?

PLANET made $15 million in '68, but by December 11, 1970 it had made $20,825,000.00 (according to the book "The Fox That Got Away), so if it's true that as of today it's at $32 million then that's all it's made since 1970, but I'll bet it's made more if you factor in sales to TV for broadcast and video sales, plus licensing for toys and stuff.  Fox has made some bucks -- those greedy bastards!

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/3/02 9:50:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

And my mind is still spinning from all those "Ape" groups. If we ever got together we could elect a president! - - - Jeff

Check out what kind of activity they have.  This is the place by far with the most action.  You're not missing anything.  Right, Kassio?

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/3/2002 7:17:31 PM Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

 A big deal was made about a certain person not knowing the computerese for SN, so : "Since we're eating a little humble pie here...what does LOL mean? - - - Patrick Michael Tilton"

LOL means either "laugh on line" or "laugh out loud"....

<.html

Or "Lunch On Liquor".

Michael

--- mlccougar@... wrote:

> In a message dated 11/3/2002 7:17:31 PM Central Standard Time,
> veetus@... writes:
>
>
> > A big deal was made about a certain person not knowing the

computerese for

> > SN, so : "Since we're eating a little humble pie here...what does

LOL mean?

> >
>
> LOL means either "laugh on line" or "laugh out loud"....
>

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 8:05 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Crisis Averted

In a message dated 11/3/02 9:50:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

And my mind is still spinning from all those "Ape" groups. If we ever got together we could elect a president! - - - Jeff

Check out what kind of activity they have.  This is the place by far with the most action.  You're not missing anything.  Right, Kassio?

-- Rory
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: james611102

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 3:01 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: "I can even draw one!"

That's an interesting and creative assumption. But it is an
assumption. There is really nothing in the film to support it.


--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> Well, if you look at Cornelius' map there's nothing around the
green area
> that Cornelius indicates Ape City is in.  I've always looked at it
as the
> Apes live in a small, isolated society surrounded be desert with
just a few
> "green belts."   I have also always assumed the total ape
population to be
> rather small, perhaps not more than a few hundred thousands, if
even that. 
> This would account for the society not progressing very much in
two thousand
> years.  I think the apes have spent centuries trying to kill off a
larger
> human population, and that when we get to the events of PLANET and
BENEATH
> that process of human eradication is nearly complete.
>
> So, there you go!
>
> -- Rory

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: james611102

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 3:01 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: "I can even draw one!"

That's an interesting and creative assumption. But it is an
assumption. There is really nothing in the film to support it.


--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> Well, if you look at Cornelius' map there's nothing around the
green area
> that Cornelius indicates Ape City is in.  I've always looked at it
as the
> Apes live in a small, isolated society surrounded be desert with
just a few
> "green belts."   I have also always assumed the total ape
population to be
> rather small, perhaps not more than a few hundred thousands, if
even that. 
> This would account for the society not progressing very much in
two thousand
> years.  I think the apes have spent centuries trying to kill off a
larger
> human population, and that when we get to the events of PLANET and
BENEATH
> that process of human eradication is nearly complete.
>
> So, there you go!
>
> -- Rory

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: veetus@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 9:20 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] First Times

  Patrick and Rory shared their experiences watching "Apes" in a theatre and I said: " I don't have exact dates, but the first 3 "Ape" movies premiered on TV in the 1973-74 season, probably in the fall. There was enough time for the ratings to be a smash and for them to commission the "Apes" series for the 1974-75 season (without a pilot episode). My first "Apes" experience was "Escape" on CBS before the series. Don't know if it was the premiere or the repeat. Never saw any "Ape" movies in a theatre until the original in 1990 on a double bill with "Beneath" in the mid '90's and with "Escape" the next year (both times I saw it with Eric Greene, his book had come out by the
"Escape" screening and the theatre asked him to introduce the films). I saw "Planet" 2 more times, at the anniversary party and a 2000 Egyptian Theatre showing with guest Heston. Both times were the same remastered print with a "Behind the POTA" ad on the print (the "Fox unlocks the vaults" ad). Growing up I wanted so bad to see POTA in a theatre, then in the last decade it's amazing how many times I was able to see it. The prints of 'Beneath" and "Escape" were piss poor. - - - Jeff"

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: james611102

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 3:01 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: "I can even draw one!"

That's an interesting and creative assumption. But it is an
assumption. There is really nothing in the film to support it.


--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> Well, if you look at Cornelius' map there's nothing around the
green area
> that Cornelius indicates Ape City is in.  I've always looked at it
as the
> Apes live in a small, isolated society surrounded be desert with
just a few
> "green belts."   I have also always assumed the total ape
population to be
> rather small, perhaps not more than a few hundred thousands, if
even that. 
> This would account for the society not progressing very much in
two thousand
> years.  I think the apes have spent centuries trying to kill off a
larger
> human population, and that when we get to the events of PLANET and
BENEATH
> that process of human eradication is nearly complete.
>
> So, there you go!
>
> -- Rory

<.html

.html

Odd topic, but I like movies with the ocean in it.

Yeah, I like oceans as well.  But for some reason I usually prefer them in Technicolor.  The water was so blue it always seemed like they were in the Caribbean, even if it was supposed to be the Pacific or the North Atlantic.  I like the blue water so much sometimes I put Tidy Bowl in the toilet.  The only exceptions are Captain Blood, The Creature From The Black Lagoon and Sea Hunt.<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/3/2002 7:17:41 PM Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

what does LOL mean

Laugh Out Loud<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/3/2002 7:17:41 PM Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

what does LOL mean?  My fave is ROTFLMAO

These 3 sites will give you more Net Speak than you will ever want to know. Or prabably remember.

IRC Jargon
Fun Internet Acronyms
Shortcuts and Abbreviations, etc. <.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/3/2002 10:04:13 PM Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

Fox has made some bucks -- those greedy bastards!

They've made more than their fair share off of POTA, and yet they treat it like it's the bastard stepchild of their catalogue!<.html