Yahoo! pota group — Messages 26815–26914

Dates: 2003-07-10 through 2003-08-03

Messages in pota group. Page 269 of 764.
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Group: pota Message: 26815 From: Melkor Date: 7/10/2003
Subject: (OT) Re: T3 *******SPOILER*******
Group: pota Message: 26816 From: Melkor Date: 7/10/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: comic book idea
Group: pota Message: 26817 From: veetus@earthlink.net Date: 7/10/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] (OT) Re: T3 *******SPOILER*******
Group: pota Message: 26818 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 7/10/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] (OT) Re: T3 *******SPOILER*******
Group: pota Message: 26819 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 7/10/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] (OT) Re: "Terminator 3" timeline and POTA
Group: pota Message: 26820 From: Melkor Date: 7/11/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] (OT) Re: "Terminator 3" timeline and POTA
Group: pota Message: 26821 From: veetus@earthlink.net Date: 7/11/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] (OT) Re: "Terminator 3" timeline and POTA
Group: pota Message: 26822 From: veetus@earthlink.net Date: 7/11/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] (OT) Re: "Terminator 3" timeline and POTA
Group: pota Message: 26823 From: patrickmichaeltilton Date: 7/11/2003
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: comic book idea
Group: pota Message: 26824 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 7/11/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] (OT) Re: "Terminator 3" timeline and POTA
Group: pota Message: 26825 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 7/11/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] (OT) Re: "Terminator 3" timeline and POTA
Group: pota Message: 26826 From: Melkor Date: 7/11/2003
Subject: Terminator franchise like POTA
Group: pota Message: 26827 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 7/11/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Terminator franchise like POTA
Group: pota Message: 26828 From: Rich Handley Date: 7/12/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Digest Number 1674
Group: pota Message: 26829 From: Rich Handley Date: 7/12/2003
Subject: Fwd: Warning: anthonyupen@pacifica.co.nz - User unknown!
Group: pota Message: 26830 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 7/13/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Digest Number 1674
Group: pota Message: 26831 From: Melkor Date: 7/13/2003
Subject: Lyrics to Beneath song
Group: pota Message: 26832 From: Melkor Date: 7/13/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: comic book idea
Group: pota Message: 26833 From: Matt Date: 7/14/2003
Subject: POTA Funkified Has Been Updated!
Group: pota Message: 26834 From: chopsuey_22003 Date: 7/14/2003
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: comic book idea
Group: pota Message: 26835 From: Melkor Date: 7/15/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: comic book idea
Group: pota Message: 26836 From: veetus@earthlink.net Date: 7/15/2003
Subject: testing
Group: pota Message: 26837 From: veetus@earthlink.net Date: 7/16/2003
Subject: Star Con '96 : The Senses-Shattering Conclusion
Group: pota Message: 26838 From: chopsuey_22003 Date: 7/16/2003
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: comic book idea
Group: pota Message: 26839 From: patrickmichaeltilton Date: 7/16/2003
Subject: NO MARKY MARK
Group: pota Message: 26840 From: Melkor Date: 7/16/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: comic book idea
Group: pota Message: 26841 From: veetus@earthlink.net Date: 7/16/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] NO MARKY MARK
Group: pota Message: 26842 From: Haristas@aol.com Date: 7/16/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] NO MARKY MARK
Group: pota Message: 26843 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 7/16/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] NO MARKY MARK
Group: pota Message: 26844 From: veetus@earthlink.net Date: 7/16/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] NO MARKY MARK
Group: pota Message: 26845 From: patrickmichaeltilton Date: 7/18/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] NO MARKY MARK
Group: pota Message: 26846 From: Haristas@aol.com Date: 7/18/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] NO MARKY MARK
Group: pota Message: 26847 From: veetus@earthlink.net Date: 7/20/2003
Subject: Jeff's Ron Harper interview
Group: pota Message: 26848 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 7/21/2003
Subject: Sequel
Group: pota Message: 26849 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 7/21/2003
Subject: sequel
Group: pota Message: 26850 From: chopsuey_22003 Date: 7/22/2003
Subject: Why no POTA fan club?
Group: pota Message: 26851 From: Haristas@aol.com Date: 7/22/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Why no POTA fan club?
Group: pota Message: 26852 From: chopsuey_22003 Date: 7/22/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Why no POTA fan club?
Group: pota Message: 26853 From: Michael Whitty Date: 7/22/2003
Subject: Why no POTA fan club?
Group: pota Message: 26854 From: Michael Whitty Date: 7/22/2003
Subject: Calling Patrick
Group: pota Message: 26855 From: les hemstock Date: 7/22/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Calling Patrick
Group: pota Message: 26856 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 7/22/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Why no POTA fan club?
Group: pota Message: 26857 From: Michael Whitty Date: 7/22/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Why no POTA fan club?
Group: pota Message: 26858 From: Michael Whitty Date: 7/22/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Calling Patrick
Group: pota Message: 26859 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 7/22/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Why no POTA fan club?
Group: pota Message: 26860 From: Haristas@aol.com Date: 7/22/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Why no POTA fan club?
Group: pota Message: 26861 From: chopsuey_22003 Date: 7/22/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Why no POTA fan club?
Group: pota Message: 26862 From: Haristas@aol.com Date: 7/22/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Why no POTA fan club?
Group: pota Message: 26863 From: PofTAfan@aol.com Date: 7/22/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Calling Patrick
Group: pota Message: 26864 From: patrickmichaeltilton Date: 7/22/2003
Subject: Re: Calling Patrick
Group: pota Message: 26865 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 7/23/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Calling Patrick
Group: pota Message: 26866 From: Michael Whitty Date: 7/23/2003
Subject: Re: Calling Patrick
Group: pota Message: 26867 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 7/23/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Calling Patrick
Group: pota Message: 26868 From: Michael Whitty Date: 7/23/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Calling Patrick
Group: pota Message: 26869 From: les hemstock Date: 7/23/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Calling Patrick
Group: pota Message: 26870 From: Haristas@aol.com Date: 7/23/2003
Subject: Planet of the Apes: 35th Anniversary Edition
Group: pota Message: 26871 From: veetus@earthlink.net Date: 7/23/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Planet of the Apes: 35th Anniversary Editi
Group: pota Message: 26872 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 7/24/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Planet of the Apes: 35th Anniversary Editi
Group: pota Message: 26873 From: libraryape Date: 7/27/2003
Subject: Re: Why no POTA fan club?
Group: pota Message: 26874 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 7/28/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Why no POTA fan club?
Group: pota Message: 26875 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 7/28/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Why no POTA fan club?
Group: pota Message: 26876 From: libraryape Date: 7/30/2003
Subject: Re: Why no POTA fan club?
Group: pota Message: 26877 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 7/30/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Why no POTA fan club?
Group: pota Message: 26878 From: Michael Whitty Date: 7/30/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Why no POTA fan club?
Group: pota Message: 26879 From: Kassidy Rae Date: 7/30/2003
Subject: potadg
Group: pota Message: 26880 From: veetus@earthlink.net Date: 7/30/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] potadg
Group: pota Message: 26881 From: Michael Whitty Date: 7/31/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] potadg
Group: pota Message: 26882 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 7/31/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] potadg
Group: pota Message: 26883 From: Michael Whitty Date: 7/31/2003
Subject: POTADHG
Group: pota Message: 26884 From: Michael Whitty Date: 7/31/2003
Subject: Re: [filmemporium] Re: Laughton's "Hunchback"
Group: pota Message: 26885 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 7/31/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] RE: [filmemporium] Re: Laughton's "Hunchba
Group: pota Message: 26886 From: veetus@earthlink.net Date: 7/31/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] potadg
Group: pota Message: 26887 From: veetus@earthlink.net Date: 7/31/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] POTADHG
Group: pota Message: 26888 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 7/31/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] potadg
Group: pota Message: 26889 From: Michael Whitty Date: 7/31/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] POTADG
Group: pota Message: 26890 From: Michael Whitty Date: 7/31/2003
Subject: Letters to Fox - ON Topic!!
Group: pota Message: 26891 From: mlccougar Date: 7/31/2003
Subject: Re: POTADG
Group: pota Message: 26892 From: veetus@earthlink.net Date: 8/1/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] POTADG
Group: pota Message: 26893 From: Michael Whitty Date: 8/1/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] POTADG
Group: pota Message: 26894 From: Michael Whitty Date: 8/1/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] POTADG
Group: pota Message: 26895 From: Michael Whitty Date: 8/2/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] POTADG
Group: pota Message: 26896 From: Michael Whitty Date: 8/2/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] POTADG
Group: pota Message: 26897 From: Michael Whitty Date: 8/2/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] POTADG
Group: pota Message: 26898 From: patrickmichaeltilton Date: 8/2/2003
Subject: My two cents... after inflation
Group: pota Message: 26899 From: Michael Whitty Date: 8/2/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] POTADG
Group: pota Message: 26900 From: Michael Whitty Date: 8/2/2003
Subject: DG
Group: pota Message: 26901 From: Michael Whitty Date: 8/2/2003
Subject: DG
Group: pota Message: 26902 From: Michael Whitty Date: 8/2/2003
Subject: DG
Group: pota Message: 26903 From: Michael Whitty Date: 8/2/2003
Subject: Ape Chronicles
Group: pota Message: 26904 From: Michael Whitty Date: 8/2/2003
Subject: DG
Group: pota Message: 26905 From: Michael Whitty Date: 8/2/2003
Subject: DG
Group: pota Message: 26906 From: Michael Whitty Date: 8/3/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] My two cents... after inflation
Group: pota Message: 26907 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 8/3/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] POTADG
Group: pota Message: 26908 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 8/3/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] DG
Group: pota Message: 26909 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 8/3/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] My two cents... after inflation
Group: pota Message: 26910 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 8/3/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] POTADG
Group: pota Message: 26911 From: patrickmichaeltilton Date: 8/3/2003
Subject: "I can speak, so I spoke!"
Group: pota Message: 26912 From: Haristas@aol.com Date: 8/3/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] "I can speak, so I spoke!"
Group: pota Message: 26913 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 8/3/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] "I can speak, so I spoke!"
Group: pota Message: 26914 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 8/3/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] "I can speak, so I spoke!"



Group: pota Message: 26815 From: Melkor Date: 7/10/2003
Subject: (OT) Re: T3 *******SPOILER*******
.html
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> > In a message dated 7/6/2003 3:06:38 PM Central Standard Time,
> > patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
> >
> > Actually they did. Skynet was not a single defense computer that
> could be destroyed to avert Doomsday. It was software that combined
> with the virus to copy itself to computers in offices, schools and
> homes around the globe. There was no way to stop it in time. So
> destroying this chip or that mainframe had no effect except to put
> the date of Doomsday back a bit. At least that's what I got out of
> it.
>

They mentioned that the "civilian internet" was infected with a virus,
What is interesting is that back in 1991? when they made T2 few people
had heard of the internet, but now that they waited until 2003 for T3
the internet conveniently fits in well with the Terminator timeline.
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26816 From: Melkor Date: 7/10/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: comic book idea
.html
>
> I'd dig it if MARVEL itself were to republish compilations of their
> original POTA storylines: "TERROR ON THE POTA", "FUTURE HISTORY
> CHRONICLES", that Derek Zane "KINGDOM ON AN ISLAND OF THE APES" thing
> (which also had 1 sequel), and "EVOLUTION'S NIGHTMARE". Since we've

Future History Chronicles was my favorite one. Terror was okay too.


> when MARVEL released their "PLANET" and "BENEATH" adaptations in
> comic-sized format and called it "ADVENTURES ON THE POTA" their
> colorist really botched it: none of the Apes' clothing even remotely
> matched what was on-screen. At least the guys who painted the covers
> of their B&W POTA magazine tended to get the colors right, though.

Not only that but when the comics were colorized the panels were all
chopped off. Compare the black and white panels to the color panels and
you'll see what I mean. I would like to see Dark Horse [re]colorize
all five adaptations.



> It's getting the rights to do it that are probably the main thing
> holding 'em up.

Getting the rights would be no problem for Dark Horse. They've already
done it with Marvel's Star Wars comics and with the Star Wars newspaper
strip.
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26817 From: veetus@earthlink.net Date: 7/10/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] (OT) Re: T3 *******SPOILER*******
.html
That's something I noticed. People walking around with cell phones, etc.
The storyline fits better now than it did when it was created 20 years
ago. - - - Jeff


----- Original Message -----
From: "Melkor" <melkor@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 8:11 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] (OT) Re: T3 *******SPOILER*******


> >
> > --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> > > In a message dated 7/6/2003 3:06:38 PM Central Standard Time,
> > > patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
> > >
> > > Actually they did. Skynet was not a single defense computer that
> > could be destroyed to avert Doomsday. It was software that combined
> > with the virus to copy itself to computers in offices, schools and
> > homes around the globe. There was no way to stop it in time. So
> > destroying this chip or that mainframe had no effect except to put
> > the date of Doomsday back a bit. At least that's what I got out of
> > it.
> >
>
> They mentioned that the "civilian internet" was infected with a virus,
> What is interesting is that back in 1991? when they made T2 few people
> had heard of the internet, but now that they waited until 2003 for T3
> the internet conveniently fits in well with the Terminator timeline.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26818 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 7/10/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] (OT) Re: T3 *******SPOILER*******
.html
.htmlIn a message dated 7/10/2003 9:24:38 PM Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

The storyline fits better now than it did when it was created 20 years


It' a lot like Escape -- time traveling into the past to escape a bleak future.  Very much a precursor of The Matrix with the technology out of control thing and well ahead of it's time.  Back then the Internet didn't even have pictures!
<.html
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26819 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 7/10/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] (OT) Re: "Terminator 3" timeline and POTA
.html
.htmlIn a message dated 7/10/2003 7:09:33 PM Central Standard Time, melkor@... writes:

Imagine how cool a T4 movie could be, with a full scale
man/machine war.


LOL!  They'll probably take a que from The Matrix and have a hundred Ahnold's fighting on the human's side.  Why not?  He's a machine...they can crank them off on an assembly line.
<.html
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26820 From: Melkor Date: 7/11/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] (OT) Re: "Terminator 3" timeline and POTA
.html
>
> In a message dated 7/10/2003 7:09:33 PM Central Standard Time,
> melkor@... writes:
>
> > Imagine how cool a T4 movie could be, with a full scale
> > man/machine war.
> >
>
> LOL! They'll probably take a que from The Matrix and have a hundred Ahnold's
> fighting on the human's side. Why not? He's a machine...they can crank them
> off on an assembly line.
>

All programmed with Austrian accents. Now we can assume that the T101 model
was created by machines, not humans. Why did they bother to program in
the Austrian accents? :-)
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26821 From: veetus@earthlink.net Date: 7/11/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] (OT) Re: "Terminator 3" timeline and POTA
.html
.html
  Unfortunately, it doesn't look like there's a T4 in the cards. T3 got it's ass whooped by "Pirates of the Caribbean" yesterday ("Pirates" made $ 13 million, T3 made $4 million). Plus the 5-day $72 million ($44 million for the weekend itself) was considered disappointing. Usually Arnold movies are bigger hits overseas but it doesn't look good. But if so, T3 at least ends the whole thing well. - - - Jeff
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 8:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] (OT) Re: "Terminator 3" timeline and POTA

In a message dated 7/10/2003 7:09:33 PM Central Standard Time, melkor@... writes:

Imagine how cool a T4 movie could be, with a full scale
man/machine war.


LOL!  They'll probably take a que from The Matrix and have a hundred Ahnold's fighting on the human's side.  Why not?  He's a machine...they can crank them off on an assembly line.


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .
<.html
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26822 From: veetus@earthlink.net Date: 7/11/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] (OT) Re: "Terminator 3" timeline and POTA
.html
Oh, and Arnold said he won't do a T4. The stunts were too much. But the
guy who played John Connor is signed for two more. - - - Jeff


----- Original Message -----
From: "Melkor" <melkor@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 11:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] (OT) Re: "Terminator 3" timeline and POTA


> >
> > In a message dated 7/10/2003 7:09:33 PM Central Standard Time,
> > melkor@... writes:
> >
> > > Imagine how cool a T4 movie could be, with a full scale
> > > man/machine war.
> > >
> >
> > LOL! They'll probably take a que from The Matrix and have a hundred
Ahnold's
> > fighting on the human's side. Why not? He's a machine...they can crank
them
> > off on an assembly line.
> >
>
> All programmed with Austrian accents. Now we can assume that the T101
model
> was created by machines, not humans. Why did they bother to program in
> the Austrian accents? :-)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26823 From: patrickmichaeltilton Date: 7/11/2003
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: comic book idea
.html
--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Melkor <melkor@e...> wrote:
> > when MARVEL released their "PLANET" and "BENEATH" adaptations in
comic-sized format and called it "ADVENTURES ON THE POTA" their
colorist really botched it: none of the Apes' clothing even remotely
matched what was on-screen. At least the guys who painted the covers
of their B&W POTA magazine tended to get the colors right, though.
>
> Not only that but when the comics were colorized the panels were
all chopped off. Compare the black and white panels to the color
panels and you'll see what I mean. I would like to see Dark Horse [re]
colorize all five adaptations.

*** As I recall, the reprint "ADVENTURES..." also added swimming
trunks to the pictures of the nude astronauts in the "oasis" scene
right before they meet the savage humans. I'd have to dig 'em out
again, just to be sure on this, but I distinctly remember laughing my
ass off to see such a ridiculously puritanical addition. Perhaps its
okay to depict people naked in a B&W magazine-format, but NOT in a
color comic-sized comicbook. After all, THAT must be for the kiddies!
Damn, if they only knew how not-for-children most of the comics would
end up getting by the year 2003, maybe they would've shaken their
heads and just left it alone.

Patrick
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26824 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 7/11/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] (OT) Re: "Terminator 3" timeline and POTA
.html
.htmlIn a message dated 7/11/2003 12:14:57 AM Central Standard Time, melkor@... writes:

Why did they bother to program in
the Austrian accents?  :-)


Because it's the only accent Ahnold can do.
<.html
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26825 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 7/11/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] (OT) Re: "Terminator 3" timeline and POTA
.html
.htmlIn a message dated 7/11/2003 12:14:57 AM Central Standard Time, melkor@... writes:

Why did they bother to program in
the Austrian accents?  :-)


2nd reason....They were created by German scientists.  But were they created by American German scientists, or my Russian German scientists?  Since he was speaking English I'd say it was American German scientists.

<.html
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26826 From: Melkor Date: 7/11/2003
Subject: Terminator franchise like POTA
.html
> Oh, and Arnold said he won't do a T4. The stunts were too much. But the
> guy who played John Connor is signed for two more. - - - Jeff
>

That's okay. He wouldn't really fit into a T4 anyway. I see the Terminator
franchise now as an "epic" like POTA, where the earlier characters are
gradually replaced. What I want to see in T4 is the John Connor actor,
Claire Danes, and a bunch of weird machines of all sorts of types fighting a
group of humans. If the commericials for T4 show a bunch of cool machines
(maybe like the ones in T3) in combat with humans people will want to see it.

Here's how Terminator is starting to look like POTA.

T1 and T2 are like ESCAPE
T3 like CONQUEST
T4, T5 etc could be like BATTLE.
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26827 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 7/11/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Terminator franchise like POTA
.html
.html
I could see Arnold in T5 though, as the guy who the Terminator is based on.  Unfortunately they have taken the over-the-top joke and made a commercial out of them.  Hollywood needs to hire me as a script consultant, to say, "Nope!  You've got a 3 Monkeys in here.  Rewrite!"  I could have saved POTA2K1.

<.html
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26828 From: Rich Handley Date: 7/12/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Digest Number 1674
.html
>From: Melkor <melkor@...>
>Here's how Terminator is starting to look like POTA.
>T1 and T2 are like ESCAPE
>T3 like CONQUEST
>T4, T5 etc could be like BATTLE.

I like the POTA parallel a lot, but I'd make a small change -- the parallel
actually fits the exact order of the POTA films quite well.

In both films...

The first film is a stand-alone fish-out-of-water story in which an average
human is thrust into a fantastic situation in which he/she must fight for
his/her existence, knowing he/she represents the only chance for future of
the human race.

The second film introduces a new enemy more dangerous than the one seen in
the first, finds our hero imprisoned, and culminates in a string of events
potentially causing the end of the world.

The third film shows that fate cannot always be avoided, in that the
actions of the characters actually start the very future those in the
previous film were so horrified about. Moreover, the character(s) who
cause(s) the chain of events leading to that future ends up dying, while
the safety of those who will be the savior(s) of the future, introduced
here in younger form, is paramount.

The fourth film will likely focus on the rise of a resistance to an
oppressive overlord, with mankind no longer in control of the planet, their
continued survival in question. Ironically, man himself has brought this
disastrous turns of events upon himself, for his own machinations have put
the enemy (once under man's control) in power.

The fifth film, then, will likely take place several years after the
apocalypse, showing survivors of a nuclear war banding together to build a
new civilization from the ruins of the old one. A threat to that new
society will assumedly rear its ugly head, but those in this society will
fight hard to protect what it has built, ending on a positive note showing
that there is always hope of a better future, yet bitterly reminded that
the worst can always still happen.

>From: LordTZer0@...
>I could see Arnold in T5 though, as the guy who the Terminator is based on.

Yeah, I'd love to see that. In fact, I just said that to a friend
yesterday. I just hope it wouldn't seem too un-original after
Alien3. There's also the question of why the machines would make more than
one of him if he's based on a real person, as humanity would surely notice
more than one of their friend Arnie suddenly walking among
them. :) Still, given that his mission is to kill everyone in sight, that
probably wouldn't cause too much of a problem since any humans who see him
don't live long enough to let others know there are two of him. As such, I
think it could be done effectively.

>Unfortunately they have taken the over-the-top joke and made a commercial out
>of them. Hollywood needs to hire me as a script consultant, to say, "Nope!
>You've got a 3 Monkeys in here. Rewrite!" I could have saved POTA2K1.

A tall order -- that film, while fun, upped the number of monkeys well
beyond 3.
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26829 From: Rich Handley Date: 7/12/2003
Subject: Fwd: Warning: anthonyupen@pacifica.co.nz - User unknown!
.html
Is this person no longer on the group? Every time I e-mail the group I get
a bounce-back from anthonyupen@.... If this address is, in
fact, invalid, who here can remove it from the list so that this doesn't
hapen anymore? It's becoming kind of annoying. Thanks!



>Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 12:05:29 +1200
>From: MDaemon@...
>Subject: Warning: anthonyupen@... - User unknown!
>To: handleyr@...
>Reply-to: MDaemon@...
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>
>anthonyupen@... - no such user here.
>
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>: Message contains [1] file attachments
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>Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 20:06:10 -0400
>From: Rich Handley <handleyr@...>
>Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Digest Number 1674
>In-reply-to: <1058003340.249.43594.m12@yahoogroups.com>
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>
>
> >From: Melkor <melkor@...>
> >Here's how Terminator is starting to look like POTA.
> >T1 and T2 are like ESCAPE
> >T3 like CONQUEST
> >T4, T5 etc could be like BATTLE.
>
>I like the POTA parallel a lot, but I'd make a small change -- the parallel
>actually fits the exact order of the POTA films quite well.
>
>In both films...
>
>The first film is a stand-alone fish-out-of-water story in which an average
>human is thrust into a fantastic situation in which he/she must fight for
>his/her existence, knowing he/she represents the only chance for future of
>the human race.
>
>The second film introduces a new enemy more dangerous than the one seen in
>the first, finds our hero imprisoned, and culminates in a string of events
>potentially causing the end of the world.
>
>The third film shows that fate cannot always be avoided, in that the
>actions of the characters actually start the very future those in the
>previous film were so horrified about. Moreover, the character(s) who
>cause(s) the chain of events leading to that future ends up dying, while
>the safety of those who will be the savior(s) of the future, introduced
>here in younger form, is paramount.
>
>The fourth film will likely focus on the rise of a resistance to an
>oppressive overlord, with mankind no longer in control of the planet, their
>continued survival in question. Ironically, man himself has brought this
>disastrous turns of events upon himself, for his own machinations have put
>the enemy (once under man's control) in power.
>
>The fifth film, then, will likely take place several years after the
>apocalypse, showing survivors of a nuclear war banding together to build a
>new civilization from the ruins of the old one. A threat to that new
>society will assumedly rear its ugly head, but those in this society will
>fight hard to protect what it has built, ending on a positive note showing
>that there is always hope of a better future, yet bitterly reminded that
>the worst can always still happen.
>
> >From: LordTZer0@...
> >I could see Arnold in T5 though, as the guy who the Terminator is based on.
>
>Yeah, I'd love to see that. In fact, I just said that to a friend
>yesterday. I just hope it wouldn't seem too un-original after
>Alien3. There's also the question of why the machines would make more than
>one of him if he's based on a real person, as humanity would surely notice
>more than one of their friend Arnie suddenly walking among
>them. :) Still, given that his mission is to kill everyone in sight, that
>probably wouldn't cause too much of a problem since any humans who see him
>don't live long enough to let others know there are two of him. As such, I
>think it could be done effectively.
>
> >Unfortunately they have taken the over-the-top joke and made a
> commercial out
> >of them. Hollywood needs to hire me as a script consultant, to say, "Nope!
> >You've got a 3 Monkeys in here. Rewrite!" I could have saved POTA2K1.
>
>A tall order -- that film, while fun, upped the number of monkeys well
>beyond 3.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26830 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 7/13/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Digest Number 1674
.html
.htmlIn a message dated 7/12/2003 7:10:27 PM Central Standard Time, handleyr@... writes:

A tall order -- that film, while fun, upped the number of monkeys well
beyond 3.


A 3 monkeys is a reference to the bit in the court room scene when the concil apes the See No Evil, Speak No Evil, Hear No Evil 3 monkeys.  When they ased Too Much?  Whoever was in charge should have said, Yeah, cut it.  THat or asked someone who knew better.
<.html
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26831 From: Melkor Date: 7/13/2003
Subject: Lyrics to Beneath song
.html
Ever wonder what the mutant children are singing in BENEATH?
From the Marvel adaptation:

Ring-A-Ring O' Neutrons
A Pocketful of Positrons
A Fission. A Fission.
We All Fall Down.
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26832 From: Melkor Date: 7/13/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: comic book idea
.html
> when MARVEL released their "PLANET" and "BENEATH" adaptations in
> comic-sized format and called it "ADVENTURES ON THE POTA" their
> colorist really botched it: none of the Apes' clothing even remotely
> matched what was on-screen. At least the guys who painted the covers
> of their B&W POTA magazine tended to get the colors right, though.

The color comics cut out some entire pages of the BENEATH adaptation.
I wonder if that's why there were only 5 issues of BENEATH in the
color version.
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26833 From: Matt Date: 7/14/2003
Subject: POTA Funkified Has Been Updated!
.html
Is this old news? I just noticed it. I hope it doesn't take a year to
conclude this thing.

Check it out:

http://www.worldoflongmire.com/features/apes/apes.html"
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26834 From: chopsuey_22003 Date: 7/14/2003
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: comic book idea
.html
--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Melkor <melkor@e...> wrote:
> > when MARVEL released their "PLANET" and "BENEATH" adaptations in
> > comic-sized format and called it "ADVENTURES ON THE POTA" their
> > colorist really botched it: none of the Apes' clothing even
remotely
> > matched what was on-screen. At least the guys who painted the
covers
> > of their B&W POTA magazine tended to get the colors right, though.
>
> The color comics cut out some entire pages of the BENEATH
adaptation.
> I wonder if that's why there were only 5 issues of BENEATH in the
> color version.

It would have cost the comic which was at the time was 25 cents to
about 2.50 or more to add all of the pages from the B&W adaptation
from beneath Beneath
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26835 From: Melkor Date: 7/15/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: comic book idea
.html
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Melkor <melkor@e...> wrote:
> > > when MARVEL released their "PLANET" and "BENEATH" adaptations in
> > > comic-sized format and called it "ADVENTURES ON THE POTA" their
> > > colorist really botched it: none of the Apes' clothing even
> remotely
> > > matched what was on-screen. At least the guys who painted the
> covers
> > > of their B&W POTA magazine tended to get the colors right, though.
> >
> > The color comics cut out some entire pages of the BENEATH
> adaptation.
> > I wonder if that's why there were only 5 issues of BENEATH in the
> > color version.
>
> It would have cost the comic which was at the time was 25 cents to
> about 2.50 or more to add all of the pages from the B&W adaptation
> from beneath Beneath
>

How come? The PLANET adaptation (all 6 parts) made it to the color comics
without missing any pages. Why not the BENEATH adaptation?
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26836 From: veetus@earthlink.net Date: 7/15/2003
Subject: testing
.html
.html
I'm a spy in the House of Love
I know the Dream that you're dreaming of
I know the Word that you long to hear
I know your deepest secret Fear
I know everything.
                               - - - Cornelius to Zira
 
 
<.html
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26837 From: veetus@earthlink.net Date: 7/16/2003
Subject: Star Con '96 : The Senses-Shattering Conclusion
.html
.html
Pt. 1: 2/8/03
Pt. 2: 2/8/03
Pt. 3: 2/10/03
Pt. 4: 2/11/03
Pt. 5: 4/13/03
Pt. 6: 4/13/03
Conclusion: 7/15/03
 
  When we left off, ERIC GREENE (author), BOOTH COLMAN (TV Zauis), BUCK KARTALIAN (Julius), BOBBY PORTER (Young Cornelius), AUSTIN STOKER (MacDonald # 2) and BILL BLAKE (stage Cornelius) were SITTING! When this is over, none of them will remain unchanged! Everything is up for grabs!!
 
         BUCK AND BOOTH, ALPHA AND OMEGA
 
ERIC GREENE: I've got a question for Buck and Booth, and the questions are kinda the reverse of each other. Buck, I'm wondering, when you all were working on this film, did you have the sense that you were at the beginning of something that was gonna become such a phenomenon? And Booth, I'm wondering if in the television series that followed up the films, was there a lot of pressure on you all to kinda keep that reputation alive?
 
BUCK KARTALIAN: Well actually, I don't know if any actor really works on a film and says, "Oh, this is the greatest film ever made!" Maybe the producer thinks it's the greatest film ever made. But to an actor, it's,"Hey, is it a big part?It's a job, I'm working. Hey!" You know? And you do the best you can and try to create a character within the limits of what the picture is about, and understand what you're doing, and just do your part of it. I had no idea that this would be a film that people would remember. And the way I can tell is I did "Cool Hand Luke" many years ago and Paul Newman was in that. And George Kennedy was doing his big scene one time, you know, and this actor and I were looking, going, "Oh geez! Can't he do any better than that? Oh, that was terrible!" He got the Academy Award. He got the Academy Award for the part! So, you know, we do the best we can and the director kinda guides us, 'cause he's got the overall picture of the film. And he's got a direction where the whole thing has to go, and you've gotta fit within that framework. And another film I did, I don't want to get away from "Planet of the Apes", but it's kinda the same thing. Actors just starting out say, "How do you start? How do you do it?" I just did plays, you know? In the years when I came out here (to California) from New York - I worked in plays in New York - it was a normal thing for me to go into the little theatres. And I was doing plays, and one time I went on an audition for a Clint Eastwood picture. And the casting director looked at me and said, "I saw you in "The Wall" at that theatre". It's a little play by John Hersey. He said, "You don't have to read for me, I've got a part for you". Which is, you know, crazy. And today, everyone reads. One word (part), you read. You audition for it. Anyway, I did the movie, it was "The Outlaw Josey Wales". And I thought, "Eh, nothing great about it. A cowboy picture". And it's turned into a classic. The way I tell is by the residuals I get. They SHOW it. They show that, "The Outlaw Josey Wales", and of course "Planet of the Apes". They must show that 100 times or more, you know, since I did that. Of course, I don't get the residuals I was getting, but I get something.
 
BOBBY PORTER: 50 cents.
 
BILL BLAKE: Not to mention the fact that POTA had the effect on all the different countries, too.
 
BUCK: I know!
 
BILL: It had an effect all over the world, I think. The social issues in it transcended language, really.
 
BUCK (to Booth): I think I said enough. You can have the microphone. (he pushes the microphone over)
 
BOOTH COLMAN: I think we were all cognizant of the great success of the first picture, certainly. Maybe one or two of the others that followed. But I've always felt the  series was not handled as well as it could have been.
 
AUSTIN STOKER: You mean the television series?
 
BOOTH: Yes. They had a ready-made audience, there was no pilot made, they didn't have to worry about any of that. They simply went into production. The first story and some of the others were very good. Some of the others weren't. And I don't even remember the names, so I can't name names. I think maybe the people at the top weren't comfortable with that kind of material. When you're doing something weird and eerie, something like Edgar Allen Poe, you must have someone with that type of feel. Someone like Ray Bradbury, for example, who's comfortable with that kind of thing. Otherwise, the stories become silly. They don't have the content they should have. The first picture you remember, they still talk about it, it's still an impressive thing. They had something to say and they said it very well. And I think some of our episodes might not have had that content.
 
BUCK: And you cared about the characters...
 
BOOTH: Yeah, that's right. They have to be developed, they have to carry along. They have to mean something. Otherwise it becomes monotonous.
 
                            BOBBYWOOD
 
BOBBY: I have a question for all of you out there: why are you here?
 
AUDIENCE: We love "Apes".
 
BOBBY: I mean, were you young at the time and it just caught you? Because what we're going through today is this tremendous public appeal to make media more responsible for the content of their pictures. To make Hollywood responsible for not causing society to emulate them in a negative way. And I don't see any mass murderers out there. Well...Maybe the guy in the back there. But there's been in the last few years such a tremendous upheaval with Congress and with others to make Hollywood "more responsible" for giving good positive messages and positive role models. And you're all here today because apparently we did something right. And I think that Hollywood does that from time to time, I wish we could do more of it in the future. So, thank you again for showing us that we're doing something right.
 
AUDIENCE: Well, you know that the only good human is a dead human...
 
BOBBY: Very subtle.
 
             AUSTIN GETS ANIMATED
 
ERIC: Austin, could you talk a bit about working on the cartoon series? Because a lot of people forget about, in terms of pOTA, the cartoon show, which started in the fall of 1975 and ran for a year. Could you speak a bit about your work in that?
 
AUSTIN: Well, first of all I was quite surprised that they called me to do that, to do voices for the cartoon. There was never an inkling that I would be involved in the cartoon. And actors don't turn jobs down. (Laughs) So I said, "Oh yes, I'd love to do it". And I had to switch voices and do an astronaut human, and then do what was supposed to be a gorilla, an ape. I had 2 voices. And I remember asking the director in the booth, how would this gorilla talk? Does he have an American accent? Where was this gorilla raised? Is he here illegally? I mean, I wasn't sure. I really did that. Now, I was born in the Caribbean, in Trinidad. Not Jamaica, Trinidad. Trinidad and Tobago. And we speak English, that's our language. And I said, "Can I do an accent?" He said, "What kind of accent?" I said, "Caribbean". He said, "Jamaica?" I said, "No, not Jamaica, Trinidad. That's my accent". He said," You don't have an accent. You have a cadence". I said, "Oh, OK. Should I do that on the gorilla, what should I do?" He said, "Oh, I don't know. Let's try it". And we tried it and I put a sort of a slight twist on the accent to make it sort of Caribbean. And he said, "Yeah, I think I like that. I don't know". You know, for the monkeys down there. We gotta do a bit.
  He said,"No, let's make him non-regional". So we did that, it was a very slight twist to the accent. And some words were sing-songy. And even to my ear, I didn't think it worked either. I thought it was confusing. BACK THEN. See, today people are more used to the accent, "Everybody come back to Jamaica", bla bla, bla, the commercials. People are more familiar with them. The music and everything. Reggae. It would have been too foreign to the ear, so he changed it and made it non-regional. You can't place it. It's not New York, it's not the South, it's not Caribbean, it's just understandable. And that was my experience. Because it was strictly a voice thing, you know. I wasn't seen. So that was it.
 
ERIC: When they brought you in for that, were they aware of your work in "Battle"?
 
AUSTIN: Yes. They were. I think that was the reason they called me in, because I had been in "Battle".
 
ERIC: Bobby, 'bout you and your involvement with the television series? Was it the same thing where they knew you had worked in "Battle", so they wanted to bring you along for continuity, or...
 
BOBBY: Well, like I mentioned before...anybody here getting tired? Maybe you wanna stretch, do a couple jumping jacks? Uh, I've been very blessed because my career has really revolved around the fact I'm 4' 9" tall. Sorry, 4' 10", I lied. Because child labor laws are structured such that children can only work 8 hours a day, 9 hours now; they need someone under 5' to play kids. And they knew I had done a reasonably good job and I worked cheap on "Battle". And so they brought me back for the series because it was Fox and they knew me pretty well. And they needed someone who could sit in the (makeup) chair for 3 and a half hours and not complain too much, and still go out and work a 12 hour day. So basically, 25 years later I'm still the most gullible guy under 5' tall in town. So that's why I keep working. And that's the same thing with "Apes".
 
            BILL'S SPECIAL SECRET
 
ERIC: Any other questions? (no response) Alright, does anyone have anything else to add? Bill?
 
BILL: Yeah. What we were talking about before, with the POTA (TV) series and some of the little problems that it had that eventually led to the cancellation of the series. This may be kind of a convention first here, but I had privvy information from Gene Roddenberry. My audition for the television series was in Gene Roddenberry's home. He was beginning to become involved with the POTA project. He knew the producers of the series. And the word was that if they had been picked up after January, Roddenberry was going to be directly involved, (with) Westheimer optical company from "Star Trek". He was going to go back for a (series) restructure, to give it a bigger, more epic look to it, wherever possible for television. And this was from Gene's own mouth in his home.
 
ERIC: Would have been an interesting "Ape" trek. Alright, unless anyone else has any other questions or comments to make, I'd like to thank everyone for coming. I mean, as an author and also as a fan it's great to have gathered you all together and shared your time. You've all been very gracious and kind and I'm glad you could make it.
 
  And in the end, the love you take
  Is equal to the love
  You make
 
                                                       - - - Jeff
 
 
 
 
<.html
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26838 From: chopsuey_22003 Date: 7/16/2003
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: comic book idea
.html
--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Melkor <melkor@e...> wrote:
> >
> > --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Melkor <melkor@e...> wrote:
> > > > when MARVEL released their "PLANET" and "BENEATH" adaptations
in
> > > > comic-sized format and called it "ADVENTURES ON THE POTA"
their
> > > > colorist really botched it: none of the Apes' clothing even
> > remotely
> > > > matched what was on-screen. At least the guys who painted the
> > covers
> > > > of their B&W POTA magazine tended to get the colors right,
though.
> > >
> > > The color comics cut out some entire pages of the BENEATH
> > adaptation.
> > > I wonder if that's why there were only 5 issues of BENEATH in
the
> > > color version.


> >
> > It would have cost the comic which was at the time was 25 cents
to
> > about 2.50 or more to add all of the pages from the B&W
adaptation
> > from beneath Beneath
> >
>
> How come? The PLANET adaptation (all 6 parts) made it to the color
comics
> without missing any pages. Why not the BENEATH adaptation?

The black and white adaptation of the Beneath is about 30 pages but
in the color version is about 22 pages. Yeah. I seen the difference
between the two, some panels in the black & white issue are cut out
of the color version, and some pages are eventually cut out, but it
always come down to the price. it is cheaper to publish a 25 cent
book to a 2.50 to 3.00 comic book in 1975.
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26839 From: patrickmichaeltilton Date: 7/16/2003
Subject: NO MARKY MARK
.html
I was watching "WITNESS" on AMC the other day, and since they're
interrupting their movies with commercials I happened to catch a
promo for a "PLANET OF THE APES"/"BENEATH THE PLANET OF THE APES"
double feature they'll be airing soon. In the promo, they briefly cut
away from film footage clips to show a blank screen with the words:

NO MARKY MARK

... and I just had to give 'em a thumbs-up and a chortle. At least
SOMEbody in LaLaLand can tell the difference between true classics
and overblown derivative mediocrity. I wonder if Mr. Wahlberg is
aware that AMC is "dissing" him?

Patrick
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26840 From: Melkor Date: 7/16/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: comic book idea
.html
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Melkor <melkor@e...> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Melkor <melkor@e...> wrote:
> > > > > when MARVEL released their "PLANET" and "BENEATH" adaptations
> in
> > > > > comic-sized format and called it "ADVENTURES ON THE POTA"
> their
> > > > > colorist really botched it: none of the Apes' clothing even
> > > remotely
> > > > > matched what was on-screen. At least the guys who painted the
> > > covers
> > > > > of their B&W POTA magazine tended to get the colors right,
> though.
> > > >
> > > > The color comics cut out some entire pages of the BENEATH
> > > adaptation.
> > > > I wonder if that's why there were only 5 issues of BENEATH in
> the
> > > > color version.
>
>
> > >
> > > It would have cost the comic which was at the time was 25 cents
> to
> > > about 2.50 or more to add all of the pages from the B&W
> adaptation
> > > from beneath Beneath
> > >
> >
> > How come? The PLANET adaptation (all 6 parts) made it to the color
> comics
> > without missing any pages. Why not the BENEATH adaptation?
>
> The black and white adaptation of the Beneath is about 30 pages but
> in the color version is about 22 pages. Yeah. I seen the difference
> between the two, some panels in the black & white issue are cut out
> of the color version, and some pages are eventually cut out, but it
> always come down to the price. it is cheaper to publish a 25 cent
> book to a 2.50 to 3.00 comic book in 1975.

True but they could have added an extra issue of the color comics.

When I first saw the color comics I didn't know they were reprints from
the magazine and I remember hoping that they would change the ending of
BENEATH so the Earth would survive and they could continue the comic
series. Imagine the story possiblities...
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26841 From: veetus@earthlink.net Date: 7/16/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] NO MARKY MARK
.html
That's great, Patrick! I'd actually like to tape that. - - - Jeff


----- Original Message -----
From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 10:34 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] NO MARKY MARK


> I was watching "WITNESS" on AMC the other day, and since they're
> interrupting their movies with commercials I happened to catch a
> promo for a "PLANET OF THE APES"/"BENEATH THE PLANET OF THE APES"
> double feature they'll be airing soon. In the promo, they briefly cut
> away from film footage clips to show a blank screen with the words:
>
> NO MARKY MARK
>
> ... and I just had to give 'em a thumbs-up and a chortle. At least
> SOMEbody in LaLaLand can tell the difference between true classics
> and overblown derivative mediocrity. I wonder if Mr. Wahlberg is
> aware that AMC is "dissing" him?
>
> Patrick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26842 From: Haristas@aol.com Date: 7/16/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] NO MARKY MARK
.html
.htmlIn a message dated 7/16/03 10:52:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:





  That's great, Patrick! I'd actually like to tape that. - - - Jeff




When is that double feature?  I'll have to get out my PLANET/BENEATH (Two Apes for the Price of One) combo 1-sheet.

-- Rory
<.html
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26843 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 7/16/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] NO MARKY MARK
.html
.htmlIn a message dated 7/16/2003 12:37:23 PM Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

At least SOMEbody in LaLaLand can tell the difference between true classics
and overblown derivative mediocrity. I wonder if Mr. Wahlberg is
aware that AMC is "dissing" him?


Hey, he was at the premier.  I'm sure even he knows the difference between good quality work and an overblown muddle.  Still, they didn't give him much to work with.  The poor bastard was in awe of Burton, for some reason.  But when he asked him to act like this sort of thing happens to him everyday . . . he should not have listened.

<.html
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26844 From: veetus@earthlink.net Date: 7/16/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] NO MARKY MARK
.html
.html
  I have that 1 - sheet. Got it for $ 3 . - - - Jeff
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 7:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] NO MARKY MARK

In a message dated 7/16/03 10:52:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:





  That's great, Patrick! I'd actually like to tape that. - - - Jeff




When is that double feature?  I'll have to get out my PLANET/BENEATH (Two Apes for the Price of One) combo 1-sheet.

-- Rory


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .
<.html
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26845 From: patrickmichaeltilton Date: 7/18/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] NO MARKY MARK
.html
I'm not sure when they're airing 'em. If AMC has a website (and I'd
be flabbergasted if they didn't), they should have their programming
schedule on it. If you don't mind sitting through 10-to-20 minutes of
whatever movie they're currently showing on-air, it's a fair bet that
you'll see the PLANET/BENEATH promo, which gives the time/date
they're airing it. Wish I could remember the "when"--sorry I don't.

Patrick


--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 7/16/03 10:52:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> veetus@e... writes:
> > That's great, Patrick! I'd actually like to tape that. - - -
Jeff
> >
> When is that double feature? I'll have to get out my PLANET/BENEATH
(Two Apes for the Price of One) combo 1-sheet.
>
> -- Rory
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26846 From: Haristas@aol.com Date: 7/18/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] NO MARKY MARK
.html
.htmlIn a message dated 7/18/03 10:40:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:


I'm not sure when they're airing 'em. If AMC has a website (and I'd
be flabbergasted if they didn't), they should have their programming
schedule on it. If you don't mind sitting through 10-to-20 minutes of
whatever movie they're currently showing on-air, it's a fair bet that
you'll see the PLANET/BENEATH promo, which gives the time/date
they're airing it. Wish I could remember the "when"--sorry I don't.

Patrick




It's Sunday night at 8 p.m.

-- Rory
<.html
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26847 From: veetus@earthlink.net Date: 7/20/2003
Subject: Jeff's Ron Harper interview
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.html
 Here's an interview I did with POTA TV's Ron Harper (Alan Virdon). It was conducted July 27, 1997. Mostly it deals with his prior career, but also some interesting POTA comments (it was quoted in Joe Russo's book "POTA Revisited"). I did a follow-up interview in '98 that was specifically POTA, but couldn't locate it (yet). I'll dedicate this presentation to our own Kassidy Rae, because I made her life a living hell this week (she had to be nice to me and stuff) and because she slaves on one of the best "Ape" sites around ( http://planetoftheapestv.150m.com ). Go have a look if this gives you the "Apes" TV bug. I think she prefers another bare-chested astronaut, but I'm sure Ron will do.
 
JEFF: Can we start with the early years of Ron Harper?
RON: Sure.
JEFF: You wanted to be a lawyer, right?
RON: That's right. I was gonna be a lawyer. Well, actually, I wanted to be a cowboy. But I had a scholarship to Princeton. Thank goodness, what a wonderful school. While I was there I thought, "Well, I don't want to waste my college education on acting (little did I know), so I thought I'd go to Harvard Law and become an attorney and, you know, live that kind of life. But Princeton was wonderful. I'd always loved acting. In high school I was in the senior play, the junior play, the high school play. And when I got to Princeton, I was in some theatrical productions there. Theatre On Team, which is a little theatre there. And Triangle Show, which is a musical comedy show.
  So as a scholarship student I was required to work during the summer and make $400 - 500 to suppliment the rest of my income. Then the producer of the summer theatre there called the University Players invited me to come and join the summer theatre company there, which did about 10 plays, one a week. Rehearsed one during the day and put another play on at night. We'd always end with a Shakespeare and usually started with a Tennessee Williams. So I thought about it and I said,"I'd love to but I'm supposed to work and earn some money". And (the theatre) didn't pay us any money, I think we got a daily allowance for food and we stayed in one of the clubs there so we didn't have to pay any room and board. So I went to the Dean of Admissions and I told him the situation. He said, "Would you like to do that?" I said,"Yeah, but I won't be able to earn any money". So he said,"Well, here the purpose of a college education, at least how it should be, is to learn how to best enjoy the rest of your life. That's to help you find out. And so, if this will help you find that out, how to best enjoy the rest of your life, we'll consider it part of your curriculum, we'll increase your scholarship, and if you need a student loan after that, you'll be entitled to it". So I thought that was wonderful. I did a season of University Players, everything from Tennessee Williams, "Camino Real" and ended up with "The Tempest", Shakespeare, and did all these plays in between and it was terrific. The following summer I came back and did another season of summer stock, we were about 45 minutes from New York, various people came down and saw me in productions, encouraged me to come to New York. And I went to New York, started studying with Lee Strasberg. And had an offer to go to Harvard for a law fellowship, decided I wanted to be an actor, that was it. I studied with Strasberg for about a year and a half, was drafted into the Navy, came back out of the Navy, studied with him a couple of more years.
JEFF: It was the '50's?
RON: Yeah. Late '50's. Well, that's how I got out of being a lawyer.
JEFF: What did you like about acting as opposed to being a lawyer? Did anyone pressure you into being a lawyer?
RON: No. It was just something I thought I would probably do, you know? I was on the debating team...
JEFF: It's pretty close to acting.
RON: Some parts of it certainly are.Yeah. But there was nothing like the thrill of being on stage doing a play. No matter what, I loved it. So that did it. I've played some lawyers but I don't regret it. I've had a wonderful time being an actor over the years.
JEFF: What was it like working on "Sweet Bird of Youth" (the play, starring Paul Newman and directed by Elia Kazan)?
RON: Wonderful. Elia Kazan directed it.
JEFF: I hear he's going to do a movie soon. He's going to come back and do a movie.
RON: You're kidding. He's about 80 years old, isn't he? Is he going to direct another movie?
JEFF: That's what I heard, yeah.
RON: That'd be great. He was a wonderful director.
JEFF: He was a legend for the time, the '50's.
RON: Oh yeah! The best interpreter of Tennesee Williams and Arthur Miller that we ever had. Wonderful director. I was cast in a small part - - Luke, one of the town's boys down in St. Cloud. Rip Torn played Tom Jr. and understudied Paul Newman. And after a couple of weeks, Rip talked to them about replacing Paul Newman when he left the production and they said no. So he wasn't interested in continuing to be the understudy. So they had an open call for understudies. And I read for it. And I was really amazed because I think I read for it about 4 times, the last time was like on a Sunday afternoon. And I came into the theatre and there was just Kazan, Sheryl Crawford the producer and Tennessee Williams, and I read for them. And I got the part as an understudy. I understudied him (Newman), and when it was time for Paul to leave they interviewed as many actors as they could find, including some from the West Coast who would have enough name to "fill the balcony", as they say. And they interviewed Tab Hunter and John Ericson and various other actors who really couldn't quite cut it. So they gave the part to Rip. I understudied him and I went on the road with it, came to Hollywood and we played out here, MCA saw me in it and signed me.
JEFF: How many times did you get to play it (the lead)?
RON: I guess about a dozen times. So, that was it. Kazan, I was very fond of Kazan. I thought he was a terrific director.
JEFF: Were you in "Splendor in the Grass" (1961, directed by Kazan)?
RON: Yep. He cast me in that because of my work in "Sweet Bird of Youth". It was about the high school kids, you know, and I was the boyfriend of Sandy Dennis and I worked on it for about 3 or 4 weeks. And when the film came out, I couldn't see myself. And I talked to Kazan about it and I said,"What happened? How bad was I?" And he said,"No, it wasn't that. It's better to be cut out of your first film so the next one will say, "Introducing Ron Harper", instead of a small part like this. You'll be better off".
JEFF: Yeah, I watched that because I heard you were in it and I didn't see you.
RON: You didn't see me either, huh? No, they cut me out.
JEFF: And you've done several series since then. What would you say makes a good series?
RON: There's no question about it: the writing. Writing and the casting. First the writing. "87th Precinct" was my first series (one season, 1961-'62). It was a superb series.
JEFF: What's your opinion of the "Apes" series?
RON: That's exactly the point. I don't think the writing was good enough. It's just not interesting. The basic plot was one of us would be captured by the apes and the other two would rescue him. We took turns week after week seeing who was captured, who was rescued. And after 16 repetitions of that, it was no longer fresh or interesting. They needed some more imaginative writers to go some other direction, give us more of a scope. And eventually, it just bored itself out, is what I think.
JEFF: What were the producers like? Usually a good series comes down to who the producer is and how much interest they have in it.
RON: I think you're right. I liked our producer. Stan Hough, who's no longer with us, was a pretty good producer. And I don't know if it was him or the network that couldn't find more imaginative writers for the series. The basic premise of the apes ruling the world was almost totally exhausted with the 5 movies that proceeded us.
JEFF: You heard recently that Mark Lenard died?
RON: Yes.
JEFF: Do you have any memories you can share with us about working with him?
RON: I was very fond of Mark. He was a very good actor, had a beautiful voice. He was in my voiceover agency, too, after that. Well, the other funny thing is, you know, I never knew what he looked like until the show was over. We went to our wrap party or something. I hardly knew what any of the apes looked like because by the time I got in around 7 o'clock, they'd been in makeup since about 4:30. So I could hardly see him. I loved his voice. I thought he was a very good actor.
  Back to what you were saying, Jeff, "87th Precinct" was a wonderful series. It was based on the novels by Ed McBay. He was a mystery writer, perhaps you've heard of him?
JEFF: Not of him, no.
RON: He also writes under the name of Evan Hunter, he wrote "The Birds" and "Strangers When We Meet", but he writes at least one, sometimes two, "87th Precinct" novels a year. At the time when we did it there were about 30 already. All of which we adapted. And they were full novels adapted into a 1-hour time frame and they were EXCELLENT. Also he wrote 3 original scripts, one of 'em I did, about this young detective I played killing his first suspect and it was a young girl. That was excellent writing. And that was a wonderful series that got on long before "NYPD Blue" or any of these other ones. And the writing for "Garrison's Gorillas" (one season: 1967-'68), a Second World War series that I did, that was also good writing. Good stories, good plots. The "Apes", I'm afraid, didn't have the good writing. "Wendy and Me" (his one season 1964- '65 series) had very good writing, that was a comedy.
JEFF: You said one of the times I talked to you that you didn't like the James Naughton character.
RON: Well, the Naughton character, Pete, was conceived of more or less as a comic foil to Alan Virdon, who was the hero, the straight hero theoretically. And I read with, I guess, about 10 or 12 actors for the part that Jim did, who's a very fine actor.
JEFF: He's won a couple of Tonys.
RON: Yeah, well, he's a good singer. He's a very good singer. But he doesn't have that much of a light touch. So instead of having something that we could have bounced off of each other, it was really like 2 heroes and it was less interesting. Pete Burke when it was originally conceived was a very reluctant hero. He didn't want to risk his life for anybody, including apes. He just wanted to get back into his spacecraft and get back to Earth and leave the heroics to somebody else. Pete Burke as it evolved was very heroic and I think we missed some opportunity to take some lighter touches. I always try to find humor in drama and drama in humor. I did not dislike him, we're not very close, you know, we worked together, we never saw each other after socially or anything.
JEFF: Do you have any favorite episodes that you did?
RON: I liked "The Horse Race". That was my particular favorite because I got to ride a horse instead of running over all those boulders and rocks that we had to climb over.
JEFF: Did you like the physicality of the character?
RON: It was exhausting, to tell you the truth.
JEFF: You seem to be in good shape, do you work out a lot?
RON: Yeah. I still work out about 5 times a week. Thank you. But it was physically exhausting. Our director would say,"OK Ron, go up there about a half a mile and run into the camera". He'd say,"We're a little short on the script this week". (Groans) And, you know, the apes were the only ones who were allowed to ride. And they were always chasing us on the horses and Jim and I were falling over the rocks and twisting our ankles! (Laughs)
JEFF: Well, they would have sweated up all that makeup. They had a lot of makeup so they couldn't run.
RON: Yeah, that's right. That's right.
JEFF: Any others besides "The Horse Race"? How about "The Legacy"?
RON: Yes. My particular acting ones were "The Legacy", where they had me in the castle with the blonde who represented my wife, and the little boy. That was probably my favorite acting one. And "The Good Seeds", which is the first one we shot, where I'm teaching this farm family about farming. Because, you know, Virdon was a rancher and a farmer. That didn't go anywhere. (Laughs) CBS wanted that action, get those apes shootin' at those boys! Put some sharks in the water. So that's where they wanted to go.
JEFF: The Nixon resignation happened around that time. Do you remember if you were filming anything in particular on that day? In August (1974).
RON: The only thing I remember was I was at the studio and they announced that he was going to make a very important...I think they suggested resignation speech. This is archaic, because I can't remember having a TV in my room, which is strange. Usually I do. But I went over to my ex-girlfriend's house, who lived right around Culver City, to watch the resignation. That's all. I was delighted that S.O.B. was finally out of office because I didn't care for him at all.
JEFF: One last thing: What do you think they should do with the new ("Apes") movie? The big stumbling block seems to be the script.
RON: It is, isn't it? Yeah, of course, as we said, the writing.
JEFF: They lost Oliver Stone.
RON: He didn't like the script? And then some other director came in?
JEFF: Chris Columbus went in and out. And maybe James Cameron now.
RON: James Cameron, right. Oh, I'd love to see Cameron do it. I'd love to get on it. Probably take a year to shoot it.
JEFF: Or more.
RON: It'd be interesting.
JEFF: It'd cost $200 million.
RON: I know, like the "Titanic". I would also like to see Oliver (Stone) do it because you know he'd give it a very interesting spin. It would be much weightier. It would look like the original book, which was much heavier than the lighter touches that they put into the movie, I guess to make it more palatable. I wish he would. I wish somebody would do it so I could do a cameo.
JEFF: I know you want to go, so thank you.
RON: Jeff, it's always a pleasure. Thank you. Good luck with this.
 
                                                       - - - Jeff
 
 
<.html
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26848 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 7/21/2003
Subject: Sequel
.html
.html
I'm not sure what the folks at Fox think of a sequel to POTA2K1 or indeed a restart on the POTA franchise in a different direction entirely, but looking back at the numbers, it was in the top ten grosses for the year, as well as being Fox's top money maker for the year.  Granted, at just under 180 mil, it was at the bottom of the top ten -- right behind the Dinosaurs, JP III, which did a bit over 180 mil.  But what did Fox want?  The kind of money LOTRs or Harry Potter made?  If so then they should have mad a better film.  Classic it ain't.  Still they were respectable numbers, so they know interest is there, if they think they can deliver.  They made money, but they could have had higher profits if they would have save on some of the budget busting Burtonesque visuals that did little to help the story. 

<.html
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26849 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 7/21/2003
Subject: sequel
.html
.html
It's interesting...but the next highest grossing film for Fox that year was Doctor Dolittle 2.
<.html
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26850 From: chopsuey_22003 Date: 7/22/2003
Subject: Why no POTA fan club?
.html
I just came back from the San Diego Comic-Con Tuesday morning
and I was wondering why is there no official POTA fan club. I seen
Star Wars, Star Trek, Stargate SG-1, and a save the Farscape fan club
and other sci-fi clubs at the con....but no Planet of the Apes fan
club. I know that I am not the only one who like the movie, but come
on, somebody has to know why is that.
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26851 From: Haristas@aol.com Date: 7/22/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Why no POTA fan club?
.html
.htmlIn a message dated 7/22/03 2:01:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PofTAfan@... writes:


I just came back from the San Diego Comic-Con Tuesday morning
and I was wondering why is there no official POTA fan club. I seen
Star Wars, Star Trek, Stargate SG-1, and a save the Farscape fan club
and other sci-fi clubs at the con....but no Planet of the Apes fan
club. I know that I am not the only one who like the movie, but come
on, somebody has to know why is that.




Are you talkin' the 1968 original?

-- Rory
<.html
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26852 From: chopsuey_22003 Date: 7/22/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Why no POTA fan club?
.html
--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 7/22/03 2:01:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
PofTAfan@a...
> writes:
>
>
> > I just came back from the San Diego Comic-Con Tuesday morning
> > and I was wondering why is there no official POTA fan club. I
seen
> > Star Wars, Star Trek, Stargate SG-1, and a save the Farscape fan
club
> > and other sci-fi clubs at the con....but no Planet of the Apes
fan
> > club. I know that I am not the only one who like the movie, but
come
> > on, somebody has to know why is that.


> > Yes. The movies, the tv series and cartoon and also the 2001 POTA
movies. It doesn't make any sense that when I went to the Con in San
Diego I didn't see any POTA fan clubs
> >
> >
>
> Are you talkin' the 1968 original?
>
> -- Rory
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26853 From: Michael Whitty Date: 7/22/2003
Subject: Why no POTA fan club?
.html
.html

The Official International POTA Fan Club’s latest project is to translate and convert rare TV Series Based original stories from a Spanish comic.

 

I’ll keep everyone updated.

 

Also, all members will shortly be receiving an issue of Simian Scrolls that includes Chapter 1 of the new POTA comic drawn by Neil Foster, story by Dave Ballard.

 

So email me your name/postal address to join.  Membership is free.

 

Michael

 

-----Original Message-----
From: chopsuey_22003 [PofTAfan@...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 4:00 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Why no POTA fan club?

 

     I just came back from the San Diego Comic-Con Tuesday morning
and I was wondering why is there no official POTA fan club. I seen
Star Wars, Star Trek, Stargate SG-1, and a save the Farscape fan club
and other sci-fi clubs at the con....but no Planet of the Apes fan
club. I know that I am not the only one who like the movie, but come
on, somebody has to know why is that.


--
<.html
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26854 From: Michael Whitty Date: 7/22/2003
Subject: Calling Patrick
.html
.html

PMT, this means YOU!

 

Michael

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Whitty [whitty@...]
Sent:
Wednesday, July 23, 2003 7:59 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Why no POTA fan club?

 

The Official International POTA Fan Club’s latest project is to translate and convert rare TV Series Based original stories from a Spanish comic.

 

I’ll keep everyone updated.

 

Also, all members will shortly be receiving an issue of Simian Scrolls that includes Chapter 1 of the new POTA comic drawn by Neil Foster, story by Dave Ballard.

 

So email me your name/postal address to join.  Membership is free.

 

Michael

 

-----Original Message-----
From: chopsuey_22003 [PofTAfan@...]
Sent:
Wednesday, July 23, 2003 4:00 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Why no POTA fan club?

 

     I just came back from the San Diego Comic-Con Tuesday morning
and I was wondering why is there no official POTA fan club. I seen
Star Wars, Star Trek, Stargate SG-1, and a save the Farscape fan club
and other sci-fi clubs at the con....but no Planet of the Apes fan
club. I know that I am not the only one who like the movie, but come
on, somebody has to know why is that.



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

--

--
<.html
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26855 From: les hemstock Date: 7/22/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Calling Patrick
.html
.html
Please enroll me too;
L.HEMSTOCK,
38 BREAM WAY,
BRADELEY,
STOKE ON TRENT.
ST6 7PW.
GREAT BRITAIN/UK.
 
Thank you.
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 11:01 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Calling Patrick

PMT, this means YOU!

 

Michael

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Whitty [whitty@...]
Sent:
Wednesday, July 23, 2003 7:59 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Why no POTA fan club?

 

The Official International POTA Fan ClubÂ’s latest project is to translate and convert rare TV Series Based original stories from a Spanish comic.

 

IÂ’ll keep everyone updated.

 

Also, all members will shortly be receiving an issue of Simian Scrolls that includes Chapter 1 of the new POTA comic drawn by Neil Foster, story by Dave Ballard.

 

So email me your name/postal address to join.  Membership is free.

 

Michael

 

-----Original Message-----
From: chopsuey_22003 [PofTAfan@...]
Sent:
Wednesday, July 23, 2003 4:00 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Why no POTA fan club?

 

     I just came back from the San Diego Comic-Con Tuesday morning
and I was wondering why is there no official POTA fan club. I seen
Star Wars, Star Trek, Stargate SG-1, and a save the Farscape fan club
and other sci-fi clubs at the con....but no Planet of the Apes fan
club. I know that I am not the only one who like the movie, but come
on, somebody has to know why is that.



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.




Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

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Group: pota Message: 26856 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 7/22/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Why no POTA fan club?
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I was wondering why is there no official POTA fan club


I'll tell you why there is no official POTA fan club.
Because Kim is dead!  Roddy is dead!  Maurice is dead!
Chuck doesn't even remember doing POTA2K1 (others are
trying to forget as well) let alone the 1968 classic.  How
many people are going to line up to get an autograph from
Don Pedro Colley.  No offense to Natalie and Linda, but
they aren't exactly famous for their acting abilities, and
they not as hot as they used to be, which is what they
were known for, as are most producer's wives. 
But I'm kidding, of course.  Some on the other group need
clarification on that.  Apparently sarcasm doesn't come through
clearly on a DSL line.  The real reason there is no official POTA
fan club is that the old one is run by Hoknes, who is always
on tour with his band.  And the new one is run by Whitty. 
Need I say more?  But then, I don't have time to run one either,
so I can't really complain.  Why don't you start one? 
I'll be the first to sign up!  : )







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Group: pota Message: 26857 From: Michael Whitty Date: 7/22/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Why no POTA fan club?
.html
Yeah, I'll join!

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
>
> > I was wondering why is there no official POTA fan club
>
> I'll tell you why there is no official POTA fan club.
> Because Kim is dead! Roddy is dead! Maurice is dead!
> Chuck doesn't even remember doing POTA2K1 (others are
> trying to forget as well) let alone the 1968 classic. How
> many people are going to line up to get an autograph from
> Don Pedro Colley. No offense to Natalie and Linda, but
> they aren't exactly famous for their acting abilities, and
> they not as hot as they used to be, which is what they
> were known for, as are most producer's wives.
> But I'm kidding, of course. Some on the other group need
> clarification on that. Apparently sarcasm doesn't come through
> clearly on a DSL line. The real reason there is no official POTA
> fan club is that the old one is run by Hoknes, who is always
> on tour with his band. And the new one is run by Whitty.
> Need I say more? But then, I don't have time to run one either,
> so I can't really complain. Why don't you start one?
> I'll be the first to sign up! : )
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26858 From: Michael Whitty Date: 7/22/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Calling Patrick
.html
You're in Les.

Michael

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "les hemstock" <mail@l...> wrote:
> Please enroll me too;
> L.HEMSTOCK,
> 38 BREAM WAY,
> BRADELEY,
> STOKE ON TRENT.
> ST6 7PW.
> GREAT BRITAIN/UK.
>
> Thank you.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Michael Whitty
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 11:01 PM
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Calling Patrick
>
>
> PMT, this means YOU!
>
>
>
> Michael
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Whitty [whitty@c...]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 7:59 AM
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Why no POTA fan club?
>
>
>
> The Official International POTA Fan Club's latest project is to
translate and convert rare TV Series Based original stories from a
Spanish comic.
>
>
>
> I'll keep everyone updated.
>
>
>
> Also, all members will shortly be receiving an issue of Simian
Scrolls that includes Chapter 1 of the new POTA comic drawn by Neil
Foster, story by Dave Ballard.
>
>
>
> So email me your name/postal address to join. Membership is free.
>
>
>
> Michael
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: chopsuey_22003 [PofTAfan@a...]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 4:00 AM
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Why no POTA fan club?
>
>
>
> I just came back from the San Diego Comic-Con Tuesday
morning
> and I was wondering why is there no official POTA fan club. I
seen
> Star Wars, Star Trek, Stargate SG-1, and a save the Farscape fan
club
> and other sci-fi clubs at the con....but no Planet of the Apes
fan
> club. I know that I am not the only one who like the movie, but
come
> on, somebody has to know why is that.
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
> --
>
> --
Group: pota Message: 26859 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 7/22/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Why no POTA fan club?
.html
.htmlIn a message dated 7/22/2003 6:49:40 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

Yeah, I'll join!


No retorts, jabs or jibes?
That's might unplayful of you.
Where's your sense of fun, Mike?

<.html
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Group: pota Message: 26860 From: Haristas@aol.com Date: 7/22/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Why no POTA fan club?
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.htmlIn a message dated 7/22/03 3:26:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PofTAfan@... writes:


Yes. The movies, the tv series and cartoon and also the 2001 POTA
movies. It doesn't make any sense that when I went to the Con in San
Diego I didn't see any POTA fan clubs


Depressing, isn't it?

-- Rory
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Group: pota Message: 26861 From: chopsuey_22003 Date: 7/22/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Why no POTA fan club?
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--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 7/22/03 3:26:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
PofTAfan@a...
> writes:
>
>
> > Yes. The movies, the tv series and cartoon and also the 2001 POTA
> > movies. It doesn't make any sense that when I went to the Con in
San
> > Diego I didn't see any POTA fan clubs
> >
>
> Depressing, isn't it?
>
> -- Rory

Yes...It is depressing. Yes, the two main characters have passed
away, Kim Hunter and Roddy McDowell, but that doesn't mean we can
still enjoy their perfomances that they did during their careers.
Hey. I'll join the fan club, but do I need some permission from the
studio to start one up in the states
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26862 From: Haristas@aol.com Date: 7/22/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Why no POTA fan club?
.html
.htmlIn a message dated 7/22/03 11:27:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PofTAfan@... writes:


I'll join the fan club, but do I need some permission from the
studio to start one up in the states




No.  F**k Fox!

-- Rory
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Group: pota Message: 26863 From: PofTAfan@aol.com Date: 7/22/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Calling Patrick
.html
Hey....I'll join

Kevin E. Harris
12570 Kempston Lane
Woodbridge, Virginia 22192-5067
United States
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26864 From: patrickmichaeltilton Date: 7/22/2003
Subject: Re: Calling Patrick
.html
What with all the projects I've got goin' and on the back-burners, I
don't think I have any time at all to spare to devote to ANY fan club
activity--not even a POTA fan club. The way I see it, joining this
Yahoo POTA site and putting in my occasional 2 cents (or more!) is
pretty much my idea of participating in a fan club-type situation.

Maybe--if the "SIMIAN SCROLLS" dudes are okay with it--that first
chapter of that Neil Foster (art) & Dave Ballard (story) project can
be posted in the "Files" section either over here at this Yahoo site,
or over at the "Friends & Fugitives" Yahoo site devoted to the POTA
TV series. Or, perhaps, at Kassidy's site.

Or, if there's any material at all uploaded to the Net, an occasional
link to it would be most welcome here at this Message Board.

Thanks for the invite, though.

Patrick

-----------------------------------------------------

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> PMT, this means YOU!
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Whitty [whitty@c...]
>
> The Official International POTA Fan Club's latest project is to
translate and convert rare TV Series Based original stories from a
Spanish comic.
>
> I'll keep everyone updated.
>
> Also, all members will shortly be receiving an issue of Simian
Scrolls that includes Chapter 1 of the new POTA comic drawn by Neil
Foster, story by Dave Ballard.
>
> So email me your name/postal address to join. Membership is free.
>
> Michael


> -----Original Message-----
> From: chopsuey_22003 [PofTAfan@a...]
>
> I just came back from the San Diego Comic-Con Tuesday morning
and I was wondering why is there no official POTA fan club. I seen
Star Wars, Star Trek, Stargate SG-1, and a save the Farscape fan club
and other sci-fi clubs at the con....but no Planet of the Apes fan
club. I know that I am not the only one who like the movie, but come
on, somebody has to know why is that.
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26865 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 7/23/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Calling Patrick
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I'm in . . .

T Zero
Somewhere in Texas
USA
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Group: pota Message: 26866 From: Michael Whitty Date: 7/23/2003
Subject: Re: Calling Patrick
.html
You're welcome.

Michael

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "patrickmichaeltilton"
<patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:
> What with all the projects I've got goin' and on the back-burners,
I
> don't think I have any time at all to spare to devote to ANY fan
club
> activity--not even a POTA fan club. The way I see it, joining this
> Yahoo POTA site and putting in my occasional 2 cents (or more!) is
> pretty much my idea of participating in a fan club-type situation.
>
> Maybe--if the "SIMIAN SCROLLS" dudes are okay with it--that first
> chapter of that Neil Foster (art) & Dave Ballard (story) project
can
> be posted in the "Files" section either over here at this Yahoo
site,
> or over at the "Friends & Fugitives" Yahoo site devoted to the POTA
> TV series. Or, perhaps, at Kassidy's site.
>
> Or, if there's any material at all uploaded to the Net, an
occasional
> link to it would be most welcome here at this Message Board.
>
> Thanks for the invite, though.
>
> Patrick
>
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > PMT, this means YOU!
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Michael Whitty [whitty@c...]
> >
> > The Official International POTA Fan Club's latest project is to
> translate and convert rare TV Series Based original stories from a
> Spanish comic.
> >
> > I'll keep everyone updated.
> >
> > Also, all members will shortly be receiving an issue of Simian
> Scrolls that includes Chapter 1 of the new POTA comic drawn by Neil
> Foster, story by Dave Ballard.
> >
> > So email me your name/postal address to join. Membership is free.
> >
> > Michael
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: chopsuey_22003 [PofTAfan@a...]
> >
> > I just came back from the San Diego Comic-Con Tuesday
morning
> and I was wondering why is there no official POTA fan club. I seen
> Star Wars, Star Trek, Stargate SG-1, and a save the Farscape fan
club
> and other sci-fi clubs at the con....but no Planet of the Apes fan
> club. I know that I am not the only one who like the movie, but
come
> on, somebody has to know why is that.
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26867 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 7/23/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Calling Patrick
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.html
Yeah, being in the POTA fan club is a very unofficial thing.  Kind of like being a Blue Blaze Irregular.  If you're ever in trouble just make ook ook noises, or scream like a chimpanzee and we'll come a runnin'.

<.html
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26868 From: Michael Whitty Date: 7/23/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Calling Patrick
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You're in.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, PofTAfan@a... wrote:
> Hey....I'll join
>
> Kevin E. Harris
> 12570 Kempston Lane
> Woodbridge, Virginia 22192-5067
> United States
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26869 From: les hemstock Date: 7/23/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Calling Patrick
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Thank you Mike..lookin  forward!
:-)
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 12:49 AM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Calling Patrick

You're in Les.

Michael

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "les hemstock" <mail@l...> wrote:
> Please enroll me too;
> L.HEMSTOCK,
> 38 BREAM WAY,
> BRADELEY,
> STOKE ON TRENT.
> ST6 7PW.
> GREAT BRITAIN/UK.
>
> Thank you.
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Michael Whitty
>   To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 11:01 PM
>   Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Calling Patrick
>
>
>   PMT, this means YOU!
>
>   
>
>   Michael
>
>   
>
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: Michael Whitty [whitty@c...]
>   Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 7:59 AM
>   To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>   Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Why no POTA fan club?
>
>   
>
>   The Official International POTA Fan Club's latest project is to
translate and convert rare TV Series Based original stories from a
Spanish comic.
>
>   
>
>   I'll keep everyone updated.
>
>   
>
>   Also, all members will shortly be receiving an issue of Simian
Scrolls that includes Chapter 1 of the new POTA comic drawn by Neil
Foster, story by Dave Ballard.
>
>   
>
>   So email me your name/postal address to join.  Membership is free.
>
>   
>
>   Michael
>
>   
>
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: chopsuey_22003 [PofTAfan@a...]
>   Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 4:00 AM
>   To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>   Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Why no POTA fan club?
>
>   
>
>        I just came back from the San Diego Comic-Con Tuesday
morning
>   and I was wondering why is there no official POTA fan club. I
seen
>   Star Wars, Star Trek, Stargate SG-1, and a save the Farscape fan
club
>   and other sci-fi clubs at the con....but no Planet of the Apes
fan
>   club. I know that I am not the only one who like the movie, but
come
>   on, somebody has to know why is that.
>
>
>
>
>
>   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
>
>         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>              
>             
>       
>       
>
>   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>   --
>   This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content
by
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<.html
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26870 From: Haristas@aol.com Date: 7/23/2003
Subject: Planet of the Apes: 35th Anniversary Edition
.html
.htmlI've just read this at The Digital Bits.com.....

And for next year, Fox is in the very early planning stages on a Planet of the Apes: 35th Anniversary Edition. You can reasonably expect that it will include a new anamorphic widescreen transfer in addition to other extras.



<.html
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26871 From: veetus@earthlink.net Date: 7/23/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Planet of the Apes: 35th Anniversary Editi
.html
.html
  Leave it to Fox to put out a 35th Anniversary edition after the anniversary is over. Maybe they should call it the "We f***ed up the reimagination and we're sorry" edition. Or maybe the "Honey, I F***ed Up the Reimagination" edition. - - - Jeff
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 4:12 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Planet of the Apes: 35th Anniversary Edition

I've just read this at The Digital Bits.com.....

And for next year, Fox is in the very early planning stages on a Planet of the Apes: 35th Anniversary Edition. You can reasonably expect that it will include a new anamorphic widescreen transfer in addition to other extras.





Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .
<.html
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26872 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 7/24/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Planet of the Apes: 35th Anniversary Editi
.html
.htmlIn a message dated 7/23/2003 9:27:33 PM Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

Leave it to Fox to put out a 35th Anniversary edition after the anniversary is over.


They probably forgot the anniversary altogether.  Then they saw it on AMC and said, Hey!  The pool needs a Jacuzzi.  Time to milk the franchise, and make some more money!  The greedy bastards.
<.html
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Group: pota Message: 26873 From: libraryape Date: 7/27/2003
Subject: Re: Why no POTA fan club?
.html
Oh please TZero somewhere in Texas, don't make me cry.

>
> I'll tell you why there is no official POTA fan club.
> Because Kim is dead! Roddy is dead! Maurice is dead!
> Chuck doesn't even remember doing POTA2K1 (others are
> trying to forget as well) let alone the 1968 classic.

I think Whitty is doing a great job. What we need to do is send or
pass out fliers out to all the coventions. By the way, I'll confess
that I accidently left behind the flier and "Simian Scrolls" in the
fanzine room during Westercon. Sorry John.

And the new one is run by Whitty.
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26874 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 7/28/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Why no POTA fan club?
.html
.htmlIn a message dated 7/27/2003 8:43:28 PM Central Standard Time, Willowape@... writes:

Oh please TZero somewhere in Texas, don't make me cry.


I'm not making you do anything.
Cry if you must, but put an end to sorrow.
<.html
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26875 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 7/28/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Why no POTA fan club?
.html
.htmlIn a message dated 7/27/2003 8:43:28 PM Central Standard Time, Willowape@... writes:

I think Whitty is doing a great job.


Yeah, by banning members.
<.html
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26876 From: libraryape Date: 7/30/2003
Subject: Re: Why no POTA fan club?
.html
>
> Yeah, by banning members.
Okay, I know I'm going to regret this but here I go.
I don't think he banned anyone, including you. Sure you can call him a
facist but he is only trying to protect people from getting hurt. The
reason why DG was created was to give people a chance to discuss
their views without feeling imcriminated.

When I first joined yahoopota, it was in constant termiol from mud
slinging remarks and put downs that had nothing to do with the topic.
People were leaving angry or getting upset. Sure, we have a right to say
what we feel or think, but not at the expense of other people's feelings.

As a aspiring children book author I have learned there is a very fine line
when it comes to the freedom of speech. Sure, I haven't had the
schooling you've had TZero, but I know know better when not to cross
that line --- hurting other people just for sake of being funny or clever. I'm
glad there are people Michael who have the courage to moderate. A job
like that isn't easy no more than it is for me to try and write a coherent
letter. You can have the smarts but you must have grace too. After all, it
your responsibility. Wendy
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26877 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 7/30/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Why no POTA fan club?
.html
.htmlIn a message dated 7/30/2003 2:06:30 PM Central Standard Time, Willowape@... writes:

Sure, I haven't had the schooling you've had T Zero, but I know know better when not to cross that line --- hurting other people just for sake of being funny or clever.


I didn't know that I was being funny, or clever, so much as honest.  True I often exaggerate, or use sarcasm to make a point.  But I don't think people should always have to walk on eggshells to spare peoples feelings.  With all this political correctness people have become thin skinned.  Example?  That Terror Futures Market was an excellent idea.  Futures market are an extremely way accurate of forecasting.  But, because of the hew and cry, mostly out of ignorance, it has been scraped, robbing all of us of an indicator that might have saved a lot of lives.  Oh well.  At least thousands of "Feelings" were spared.  If anyone is hurt by my bluntness, please feel free to print this post out and shred it. That should make you feel better.  But it's a waste of good paper.


Save The Whales
But, Shoot The Seals
~~~ Pedro de Pacos ~~~~


<.html
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26878 From: Michael Whitty Date: 7/30/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Why no POTA fan club?
.html
.html

Thanks Wendy.

 

I didn’t actually expect someone to stand up for me, but I think it is very sweet of you to do so.

 

Sadly, this will bounce straight off T.

 

His agenda is to engage me in a shit-slinging war.

 

I never realized it before, but the less I say, the better I come out looking.  My first instinct is to rush to my defence when these nasty, false comments are made….but a lot of other individuals have emailed me privately, asking for me to let it pass without comment.  So I will, because I DO care about what other people in the group want.

 

T reminds me of Kevin Spacey’s character in “Se7en”.  Force people to go through extreme ugliness to make a point and then wonder why they don’t like it.  I guess the difference is that Spacey’s character had the intelligence to realize that he would not be worshipped for his efforts.

 

So forget this crap guys.  This used to be a group to discuss POTA.  Why don’t we just ignore idiots who want to play childish games and get back to that?

 

Michael

 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: libraryape [Willowape@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 5:03 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Why no POTA fan club?

 



>
> Yeah, by banning members.
Okay, I know I'm going to regret this but here I go.
I don't think he banned anyone, including you. Sure you can call him a
facist but he is only trying to protect people from getting hurt. The
reason why DG was created was to give people a chance to discuss
their views without feeling imcriminated.

When I first joined yahoopota, it  was in constant termiol from mud
slinging remarks and put downs that had nothing to do with the topic. 
People were leaving angry or getting upset. Sure, we have a right to say
what we feel or think, but not at the expense of other people's feelings.

As a aspiring children book author I have learned there is a very fine line
when it comes to the freedom of speech. Sure, I haven't had the
schooling you've had TZero, but I know know better when not to cross
that line --- hurting other people just for sake of being funny or clever. I'm
glad there are people Michael who have the courage to moderate. A job
like that isn't easy no more than it is for me to try and write a coherent
letter. You can have the smarts but you must have grace too. After all, it
your responsibility. Wendy



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

--
<.html
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26879 From: Kassidy Rae Date: 7/30/2003
Subject: potadg
.html


 

I know some of you aren't happy with Whitty and the moderating - or James and the moderating.  But Yahoo groups are set up so that whoever wants to start a group can do so, and that person who sets it up is the owner.   The owner is in control and can designate moderators.  It's a simple set-up and not formulated to be a democracy. 

I've enjoyed speaking with every single one of you that exchanged emails with me, but the endless insults, mud-slinging and personal attacks that came down in here were boring and ugly.  From where I'm sitting, and judging by the activity on potadg and the new members joining and contributing, the success of that group is not arguable.  Apparently there needed to be some boundaries to make a majority comfortable enough to enjoy the discussions about our favorite topic - apes.

All of us are free to like the potadg's rules or leave 'em, right?  But I'll tell you, the place is pretty active.  I've enjoyed it, and anticipate that will continue.

I'm sorry this group went down and still hope it will bounce back and become more active.

Kass


<.html
Group: pota Message: 26880 From: veetus@earthlink.net Date: 7/30/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] potadg
.html
.html
  They've got the guns but we've got the numbers - - - 500 megs!  - - - Jeff
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 3:49 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] potadg



 

I know some of you aren't happy with Whitty and the moderating - or James and the moderating.  But Yahoo groups are set up so that whoever wants to start a group can do so, and that person who sets it up is the owner.   The owner is in control and can designate moderators.  It's a simple set-up and not formulated to be a democracy. 

I've enjoyed speaking with every single one of you that exchanged emails with me, but the endless insults, mud-slinging and personal attacks that came down in here were boring and ugly.  From where I'm sitting, and judging by the activity on potadg and the new members joining and contributing, the success of that group is not arguable.  Apparently there needed to be some boundaries to make a majority comfortable enough to enjoy the discussions about our favorite topic - apes.

All of us are free to like the potadg's rules or leave 'em, right?  But I'll tell you, the place is pretty active.  I've enjoyed it, and anticipate that will continue.

I'm sorry this group went down and still hope it will bounce back and become more active.

Kass


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Group: pota Message: 26881 From: Michael Whitty Date: 7/31/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] potadg
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Who is “they” and who is “we” Jeff?

 

-----Original Message-----
From: veetus@... [veetus@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 12:39 PM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] potadg

 

  They've got the guns but we've got the numbers - - - 500 megs!  - - - Jeff

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Kassidy Rae

Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 3:49 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] potadg

 

 

 

I know some of you aren't happy with Whitty and the moderating - or James and the moderating.  But Yahoo groups are set up so that whoever wants to start a group can do so, and that person who sets it up is the owner.   The owner is in control and can designate moderators.  It's a simple set-up and not formulated to be a democracy. 

I've enjoyed speaking with every single one of you that exchanged emails with me, but the endless insults, mud-slinging and personal attacks that came down in here were boring and ugly.  From where I'm sitting, and judging by the activity on potadg and the new members joining and contributing, the success of that group is not arguable.  Apparently there needed to be some boundaries to make a majority comfortable enough to enjoy the discussions about our favorite topic - apes.

All of us are free to like the potadg's rules or leave 'em, right?  But I'll tell you, the place is pretty active.  I've enjoyed it, and anticipate that will continue.

I'm sorry this group went down and still hope it will bounce back and become more active.

Kass



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Group: pota Message: 26882 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 7/31/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] potadg
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.htmlIn a message dated 7/30/2003 9:36:00 PM Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

They've got the guns but we've got the numbers - - - 500 megs!  - - - Jeff


We've got the guns too.
Whitty isn't allowed to have guns, luckily.

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Group: pota Message: 26883 From: Michael Whitty Date: 7/31/2003
Subject: POTADHG
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Well, for those of you who were here hoping to discuss Planet of the Apes, it does not look like happening here in the near future!

 

Join the rest of us at the Planet of the Apes Discussion Group (POTADG).  Over 1 000 posts per month in June and July 2003, and none of them are character assassinations.  Not many of the posts are off topic either.

 

A highlight last month was the purchase of #1 - #6 of a rare Spanish Language comic.  Unlike most Foreign Language POTA comics (which are normally translated versions of the Marvel tales), these Argentinean comics contain a TV Show based original story.  Members of the POTADG are currently translating these comics to make English versions available to fans.

 

Join at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/

 

Michael

 

-----Original Message-----
From: LordTZer0@... [LordTZer0@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 7:28 PM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] potadg

 

In a message dated 7/30/2003 9:36:00 PM Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:


They've got the guns but we've got the numbers - - - 500 megs!  - - - Jeff



We've got the guns too.
Whitty isn't allowed to have guns, luckily.

<.html
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Group: pota Message: 26884 From: Michael Whitty Date: 7/31/2003
Subject: Re: [filmemporium] Re: Laughton's "Hunchback"
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Hi Patrick

 

I am having trouble posting to the Film Emporium (T isn't very nice about that group either.....is there a pattern emerging?) from home, so I'll answer you here:

 

There's a Caesar kit and a highly sought (and expansive) Soldier on Stallion kit too that were not reproduced.

 

Michael

 


Sent:
Thursday, July 31, 2003 11:05 PM
To: whitty@...
Subject: FW: [filmemporium] Re: Laughton's "Hunchback"

 

Quasimodo was just another monster, like Frankenstein's monster,

Dracula, etc. Just because he was ugly & deformed. It's funny that

the company which made the model kits would imply that Quasimodo was

some kind of monster, rather than the tragic HERO he really is.

I think those kits are available again--a similar group of Aurora

PLANET OF THE APES kits from that era are available, and I bought 4

of those through a catalogue (Zira, Zaius, Cornelius, Ursus); for

some reason, the Aldo kit (were there any others?) wasn't also made

available.

 

Patrick

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Group: pota Message: 26885 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 7/31/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] RE: [filmemporium] Re: Laughton's "Hunchba
.html
.htmlIn a message dated 7/31/2003 8:23:25 AM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

Film Emporium (T isn't very nice about that group either.....is there a pattern emerging?)

Yeah, the pattern is this in the only group where you can speak your mind.
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Group: pota Message: 26886 From: veetus@earthlink.net Date: 7/31/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] potadg
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  You know, man! "They" is those establishment pigs at the DG. They want us to fight an unjust war of hypocrisy and WE just want to be ourselves, man. "We" have 500 megs and when we feel like it we can really change the world, man. That's what it's about, man. It's not about all that "moderation" they're trying to force down the throats of us young people. It's about peace and love and megs. So have a joint and chill, partner. - - - Chief Mojo
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 10:54 PM
Subject: RE: [Planet of the Apes] potadg

Who is “they” and who is “we” Jeff?

 

-----Original Message-----
From: veetus@... [veetus@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 12:39 PM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] potadg

 

  They've got the guns but we've got the numbers - - - 500 megs!  - - - Jeff

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Kassidy Rae

Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 3:49 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] potadg

 

 

 

I know some of you aren't happy with Whitty and the moderating - or James and the moderating.  But Yahoo groups are set up so that whoever wants to start a group can do so, and that person who sets it up is the owner.   The owner is in control and can designate moderators.  It's a simple set-up and not formulated to be a democracy. 

I've enjoyed speaking with every single one of you that exchanged emails with me, but the endless insults, mud-slinging and personal attacks that came down in here were boring and ugly.  From where I'm sitting, and judging by the activity on potadg and the new members joining and contributing, the success of that group is not arguable.  Apparently there needed to be some boundaries to make a majority comfortable enough to enjoy the discussions about our favorite topic - apes.

All of us are free to like the potadg's rules or leave 'em, right?  But I'll tell you, the place is pretty active.  I've enjoyed it, and anticipate that will continue.

I'm sorry this group went down and still hope it will bounce back and become more active.

Kass


/><.html
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Group: pota Message: 26887 From: veetus@earthlink.net Date: 7/31/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] POTADHG
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  DON'T LISTEN, MAN! THEY WANT YOU TO GO OVER TO NAM! Stay here. Roll another one. Do I have to do it myself? - - - Chief Mojo
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 6:14 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] POTADHG

Well, for those of you who were here hoping to discuss Planet of the Apes, it does not look like happening here in the near future!

 

Join the rest of us at the Planet of the Apes Discussion Group (POTADG).  Over 1 000 posts per month in June and July 2003, and none of them are character assassinations.  Not many of the posts are off topic either.

 

A highlight last month was the purchase of #1 - #6 of a rare Spanish Language comic.  Unlike most Foreign Language POTA comics (which are normally translated versions of the Marvel tales), these Argentinean comics contain a TV Show based original story.  Members of the POTADG are currently translating these comics to make English versions available to fans.

 

Join at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/

 

Michael

 

-----Original Message-----
From: LordTZer0@... [LordTZer0@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 7:28 PM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] potadg

 

In a message dated 7/30/2003 9:36:00 PM Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:


They've got the guns but we've got the numbers - - - 500 megs!  - - - Jeff



We've got the guns too.
Whitty isn't allowed to have guns, luckily.



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .
<.html
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Group: pota Message: 26888 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 7/31/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] potadg
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Right On!
<.html
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Group: pota Message: 26889 From: Michael Whitty Date: 7/31/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] POTADG
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OK, so you aren’t the Jeff Krueger who made 999 of last months 1 000 comments on the “evil” POTADG?  ;) That’s all right then!  That would almost make you a traitor or a hypocrite, and it would make “us” “them” and “they” “we”.

 

And did someone mention “Planet of the Apes”?

 

Jeff, I hear you had a major role in the publication of Planet of the Apes Fanzine, Ape Chronicles.  Many have praised this publication, particularly that it was released at a time when POTA was at possibly its lowest level of popularity.

 

Can you tell us a bit of the background that led to the first issue/s and the reaction of recipients?

 

I’ll ask the other Jeff K to enlighten us in the other group (there is no shutting him up!) and see if maybe you guys are related.

 

Michael

 

PS 4 new members in the POTADG this morning, 3 of those have left this group and have stated that they would never return as it is boring and has no resemblance to POTA in ideology or subject matter.  You guys really should think about the outcomes of your behaviour.

 

Jeff, I know you aren’t serious, but I can bet you are confusing a lot of others here. 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: veetus@... [veetus@...]
Sent:
Friday, August 01, 2003 1:55 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] POTADHG

 

  DON'T LISTEN, MAN! THEY WANT YOU TO GO OVER TO NAM! Stay here. Roll another one. Do I have to do it myself? - - - Chief Mojo

 

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 6:14 AM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] POTADHG

 

Well, for those of you who were here hoping to discuss Planet of the Apes, it does not look like happening here in the near future!

 

Join the rest of us at the Planet of the Apes Discussion Group (POTADG).  Over 1 000 posts per month in June and July 2003, and none of them are character assassinations.  Not many of the posts are off topic either.

 

A highlight last month was the purchase of #1 - #6 of a rare Spanish Language comic.  Unlike most Foreign Language POTA comics (which are normally translated versions of the Marvel tales), these Argentinean comics contain a TV Show based original story.  Members of the POTADG are currently translating these comics to make English versions available to fans.

 

Join at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/

 

Michael

 

-----Original Message-----
From: LordTZer0@... [LordTZer0@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 7:28 PM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] potadg

 

In a message dated 7/30/2003 9:36:00 PM Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:


They've got the guns but we've got the numbers - - - 500 megs!  - - - Jeff



We've got the guns too.
Whitty isn't allowed to have guns, luckily.



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

--
<.html
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Group: pota Message: 26890 From: Michael Whitty Date: 7/31/2003
Subject: Letters to Fox - ON Topic!!
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Rory sent this to me yesterday and he is happy for people to use it as a template for their own letters to Fox.

 

Michael

Have you written to Fox lately about what you want to see on a POTA 35th Anniversary disc?  Please remind the others in the POTA DG group to keep writing.

Here's a sample of what I sent the other day:

July 26, 2003

20th Century Fox Home Entertainment Inc.
2121 Avenue of the Stars, 25th Floor
Los Angeles, California              90067-5010

Dear Sirs:

I'm pleased to be reading that TCFHE will be doing a 35th Anniversary edition of PLANET OF THE APES.

As you know, the current DVD edition of the classic original has a fine picture transfer but was unfortunately done before your company made the commitment to doing anamorphic transfers.  PLANET OF THE APES enhanced for 16X9 displays is greatly desired by collectors (especially me!), and a remastering of this popular title would also allow you to make digital improvements to the picture.  I also understand that mistakes were made to the Dolby Digital 5.1 soundtrack remastering of PLANET OF THE APES that resulted in poor stereo separation and a lack of the directional dialogue Fox films from that era are famed for.  I'm sure Fox can do a much better job on the soundtrack for this film and an improved DD 5.1 or DTS remix would be a great selling point for a new DVD edition (As well as possibly of PLANET OF THE APES on the new D-VHS format?).

I would also hope that the 35th Anniversary APES will include the same kind of supplemental features that your other Special Editions have.   Especially desired by me would be an interview with Jerry Goldsmith on his landmark score, as well as the score on an isolated track.  Also, whatever outtakes and unused footage, and an extensive photo gallery of behind-the-scenes shots, would be greatly appreciated by fans.

And while I have your attention, I’d also like to request that the cover art for the 35th Anniversary of PLANET OF THE APES not reveal the classic final image of the Statue of Liberty.  I know it’s one of the most famous finals in film history, but why spoil it for those that don’t know of it?  I remember seeing this film in 1968 and what a shock the conclusion was.  Let newer generations still be surprised.

Sincerely,
Rory Monteith

<.html
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26891 From: mlccougar Date: 7/31/2003
Subject: Re: POTADG
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--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:

<<< Jeff, I hear you had a major role in the publication of Planet of
the Apes Fanzine, Ape Chronicles. Many have praised this publication,
particularly that it was released at a time when POTA was at possibly
its lowest level of popularity. >>>

That's not exactly true Whitty... After all, that publication was
started after the appearance of the new line of comics in the
early '90s... There had to have been at least "some" re-emergance of
APES before that publiaction came to be... I mean they would not have
started a line of comics based on APES if it was NOT "popular"...
<.html
Group: pota Message: 26892 From: veetus@earthlink.net Date: 8/1/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] POTADG
.html
.html
  Hi Mr. DG,
 
  First of all, you're overstating my contribution to the DG (999 out of 1000 posts, indeed!). I look at the DG and this group equally, but all the topics that need replies are over there. But I've never slighted this group. When I've posted things like Starcon '96 or the Ron Harper interview, I've posted them in both places.
  As I've said here before, this group here has a lot of fond memories for me. I consider it my "home" and if I had to make a choice, here is where I would stay.
  On the other hand, no one seems to want to discuss "Apes" here. That's a shame. I was pretty much the last holdout that I know of to try the DG when it started. I didn't want anything to do with it. Then some of the so-called "troublemakers" here got kicked out, so my attitude was, we're proving them right. So I joined on principle to show that a "troublemaker" could play by the rules. So far, no worries, mate. Personally, I think it's too bad the group has been splintered. But the fact is, all the talk is over there. As for those who are staunch advocates of this group, we just haven't been making conversation. But there hasn't been flame wars and the like here since the DG formed, except when there's bad blood between the DG founders and people who were kicked out.
  I admit, the DG is a success, and the founders have gone out of their way to make it so. It seems like most people are still members of both (or at least check in once in awhile, though it's not difficult to keep up with this group now), but no one really uses this group to talk anymore. I'm the same way. If I bring up a topic in here, chances are no one will respond. In the DG they will. So, those who are big on keeping this group alive, we're not doing our jobs and it's no wonder people are leaving. But I'll remain here, even if I'm the last man standing.
  As for the "us" and "them" jokes, it's my reaction when I feel this group is being used to rub our noses in it for the success of the DG. I know there are those here who feel wronged by the DG process. Kass is right that groups are not a democracy. But people still have a right to feel that they've been unfairly censored or banned. And let's face it, moderators are human too, not apes. Plus I can't resist a good opening for some humor.
  As for Mr. Whitty's topic, "Ape Chronicles" was Terry Hoknes' idea in 1991, thanks to the Adventure comics. As Mr. Cougar said, we didn't start from ground zero. It wouldn't have existed without the comics, which in turn were apparently inspire by the new movie talk. At that time it was basically fan Adam Rifkin wanting to do a low-budget "Apes" movie and Fox saying, "We'll see". Terry advertised his fan club in the comics, that's where I learned about it and we got the ball rolling. It was always fairly small. Getting people to join a club (or even hear about it in the days before the internet) was modest. The "Apes" comeback since then is unfathomable. But those early days are special to me when we first found each other, the comics, and realized there were others who shared our interest. It's like a first time for anything. It gets better but it doesn't have the same impact. Now with the internet it's instant anything. Yes, I'd like to bring back "Chronicles" for old times sake and see how it does in this new age; maybe I'm getting a little too ambitious in the issues I'm working on and it's bogging me down. We'll see. But I think it would be fun to bring it back, people seem to have fond memories of it, back when they couldn't get "instant POTA". There was nothing back then. No documentaries, no books, no groups, even the comics were shortlived. There was a real sense of camaraderie, coupled with the distance between us at the time. What's this? Instant access to Australia and the U.K. and Canada? The original "Ape Chronicles" came at the end of an age. I loved it. - - - Jeff
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 3:12 PM
Subject: RE: [Planet of the Apes] POTADG

OK, so you arenÂ’t the Jeff Krueger who made 999 of last months 1 000 comments on the “evil” POTADG?  ;) ThatÂ’s all right then!  That would almost make you a traitor or a hypocrite, and it would make “us” “them” and “they” “we”.

 

And did someone mention “Planet of the Apes”?

 

Jeff, I hear you had a major role in the publication of Planet of the Apes Fanzine, Ape Chronicles.  Many have praised this publication, particularly that it was released at a time when POTA was at possibly its lowest level of popularity.

 

Can you tell us a bit of the background that led to the first issue/s and the reaction of recipients?

 

IÂ’ll ask the other Jeff K to enlighten us in the other group (there is no shutting him up!) and see if maybe you guys are related.

 

Michael

 

PS 4 new members in the POTADG this morning, 3 of those have left this group and have stated that they would never return as it is boring and has no resemblance to POTA in ideology or subject matter.  You guys really should think about the outcomes of your behaviour.

 

Jeff, I know you arenÂ’t serious, but I can bet you are confusing a lot of others here. 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: veetus@... [veetus@...]
Sent:
Friday, August 01, 2003 1:55 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] POTADHG

 

  DON'T LISTEN, MAN! THEY WANT YOU TO GO OVER TO NAM! Stay here. Roll another one. Do I have to do it myself? - - - Chief Mojo

 

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 6:14 AM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] POTADHG

 

Well, for those of you who were here hoping to discuss Planet of the Apes, it does not look like happening here in the near future!

 

Join the rest of us at the Planet of the Apes Discussion Group (POTADG).  Over 1 000 posts per month in June and July 2003, and none of them are character assassinations.  Not many of the posts are off topic either.

 

A highlight last month was the purchase of #1 - #6 of a rare Spanish Language comic.  Unlike most Foreign Language POTA comics (which are normally translated versions of the Marvel tales), these Argentinean comics contain a TV Show based original story.  Members of the POTADG are currently translating these comics to make English versions available to fans.

 

Join at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/

 

Michael

 

-----Original Message-----
From: LordTZer0@... [LordTZer0@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 7:28 PM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] potadg

 

In a message dated 7/30/2003 9:36:00 PM Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:


They've got the guns but we've got the numbers - - - 500 megs!  - - - Jeff



We've got the guns too.
Whitty isn't allowed to have guns, luckily.



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.




Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

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<.html
Group: pota Message: 26893 From: Michael Whitty Date: 8/1/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] POTADG
.html
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Hi Mr “The Gang”

 

One at a time…..

 

I was certainly overstating your contribution and it was a joke, hence the smiley face.

 

My point was that you are a regular contributor in the POTADG and that your jovial jabs at it might be seen as serious.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: veetus@... [veetus@...]
Sent:
Saturday, August 02, 2003 12:16 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] POTADG

 

  Hi Mr. DG,

 

  First of all, you're overstating my contribution to the DG (999 out of 1000 posts, indeed!).


--
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Group: pota Message: 26894 From: Michael Whitty Date: 8/1/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] POTADG
.html
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True.

 

As close as I can get to this is by letting people on this group know that they can join the POTADG.

 

There is one exception, T, but he has actually said the POTADG is boring and offers him nothing so I suppose he doesn’t count.

 

Melkor has rejoined the POTADG.

 

Rory has been invited (and he may crumble eventually!).

 

Patrick has been openly, publicly invited too.

 

Anyone else I know is already in the POTADG too.

 

And I do try to keep this group in touch with what I consider are major events.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: veetus@... [veetus@...]
Sent
:
Saturday, August 02, 2003 12:16 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] POTADG

 

When I've posted things like Starcon '96 or the Ron Harper interview, I've posted them in both places.


--
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Group: pota Message: 26895 From: Michael Whitty Date: 8/2/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] POTADG
.html
.html

I don’t quite understand this statement.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: veetus@... [veetus@...]
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2003 12:16 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] POTADG

 

I consider it my "home" and if I had to make a choice, here is where I would stay.


--
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Group: pota Message: 26896 From: Michael Whitty Date: 8/2/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] POTADG
.html
.html

I agree.

 

It seems to have become the POTADG Complaints Department, and that’s not good.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: veetus@... [veetus@...]
Sent:
Saturday, August 02, 2003 12:16 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] POTADG

 

On the other hand, no one seems to want to discuss "Apes" here. That's a shame


--
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Group: pota Message: 26897 From: Michael Whitty Date: 8/2/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] POTADG
.html
.html

That may be why you joined, but I think now you are just one of “the gang” over there now too.

 

I think it is terrible that the group splintered but it had to happen or there would have been nobody left.

 

There’s a reason the talk is over there too…..it is more popular.  That doesn’t necessarily mean it is better.  To measure that, you have to look at what the objective is.  I don’t think anyone knows what the objective of this group is anymore and I think that’s the first step.  If you want to be a large group that talks apes, then decide that and discuss the best way to achieve it.  If you want to be a few ape fans who would rather talk about almost anything else and don’t want the group to expand, then decide that and do what it take to reach your goal.

 

I think it is revolting what this group has been reduced to.  But until you do something about the people using it as a battle ground (as Wendy and Kass have tried, to no avail), it won’t stop.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: veetus@... [veetus@...]
Sent:
Saturday, August 02, 2003 12:16 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] POTADG

 

I was pretty much the last holdout that I know of to try the DG when it started. I didn't want anything to do with it. Then some of the so-called "troublemakers" here got kicked out, so my attitude was, we're proving them right. So I joined on principle to show that a "troublemaker" could play by the rules. So far, no worries, mate. Personally, I think it's too bad the group has been splintered. But the fact is, all the talk is over there. As for those who are staunch advocates of this group, we just haven't been making conversation


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Group: pota Message: 26898 From: patrickmichaeltilton Date: 8/2/2003
Subject: My two cents... after inflation
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I haven't checked out the POTADG group since I last commented on its
content, which was way back several months ago at least. It's nice
that Jeff posts interesting POTA-related stuff to both sites;
frankly, those who are over at the DG site who give (or who have
given) this group guff could be as generous and post simultaneously--
unless, that is, they bear grudges against those of us who ONLY post
at this group. And, might that pretty much be just me?

Mike's right--I have, of late, been given a "welcome" to join the DG
site, which is kinda/sorta nice in a way. But I remember WHY that
other site got created in the first place: POTA fans who didn't like
me in particular splintered off to create an alternative Yahoo POTA
site in which I specifically was NOT welcome. That was "then" and
this is "now", and Mike says I now AM welcome to join it. Thanks for
the offer, but no. Yeah, Kass is right about how Yahoo's groups are
designed to be moderated/controlled by whomever creates it, and those
who went out of their way to create it (James & Mike predominantly,
right?) both had specific grudges against me. And I think it's
reasonable to conclude that those notorious forged emails originated
outta James' grudge-based anti-Patrick agenda; see past posts for the
evidence others gathered that lead me to conclude (prima facie) that
this is so. The upshot of all that was that SOMEBODY (I think it was
James) wanted others out there to think that I was responsible for
that crap.

Now, if any of you reading this were to be the target of a "frame"
job by the chief architect of that splinter group--a group which Mike
admitted to me (in a private email, explicitly) would not welcome me
in it--would you want to have anything to do with it? I doubt it.

I haven't checked out the POTADG message board in, oh, at least 4 or
5 months, and I don't have any interest in doing so. Not because I
don't want to read on-topic stuff about POTA (I do), and not because
I have hard feelings against all the other POTADG members (I don't),
but because I just don't trust James. Well, I WOULD trust him to
either delete or alter any posting I might make there, or to just
kick me out with no reason given. He doesn't like me. I gave him guff
about his bad spelling wayyyy back when, and when I found out in a
roundabout way that he had dyslexia I apologized. I made at least two
other apologies for hurting his feelings, if that's what my spelling-
criticism had done, and--but, hey, he's never accepted 'em. I don't
think he wants to. He enjoys disliking me too much. Fine. I couldn't
care less.

For the record, this group never kicked anybody out, or forced
anybody to splinter off to form another group. The dudes in charge of
the DG took avid part in every goddamn "flame-war" that happened over
here, then bitched that there was too much "flaming" going on. In my
book, that's just hypocrisy. Those who weren't participating in any
flames, sure, I can understand how THEY might not like trudging
through a given month's messages, seeing all the shit-hitting-the-
fan; it amuses me, though, that they are somehow led to believe that
James & his gang were somehow INNOCENT of any of that.

If there's less of a "flame"-feel to the DG, it's because any out-of-
line posts are CENSORED, and the "trouble-makers" get their ass
tossed out. That happened in less than 200 posts over there, if my
memory serves. This group is nearing 30,000 posts... and NOBODY has
ever been censored or evicted. Is the DG more "successful"? Depends
on how you define "success". Give any control freak enough power and
you can bet that he or she will tend to "get things done"; after all,
when Hitler got into power, he roused his Volk up from their doldrums
and got 'em motivated to build an impressive Vaterland. He got the
trains to run on time. Which is nice, if you were "acceptable" to the
ones who dictated who/what was or was not acceptable. The Jews
probably didn't like the fact that the trains THEY were forced onto
led them straight to Auschwitz. But, hey, they were on time at least.

Hmmm... how can I make this message on-topic, POTA-wise? Well, I can
reiterate what I said way back when Rory had gotten kicked outta the
DG. At the time, I compared Mike/James/DG's "in-charge" elite to the
exclusionist forces we've all seen in CONQUEST and BATTLE. Remember
Caesar's rant at the end of CONQUEST? The concluding dialogue from
the CONQUEST screenplay (thanks, again, to Jeff for making me a
copy!) reads:

CAESAR (with rising passion): "The day of the writing in the sky,
when your cities lie buried under the radioactive rubble, and the sea
has become a Dead Sea, and the Land a wasteland, from which I shall
lead my people out of their captivity! And we shall build our own
cities, where there will be no place for humans except to serve our
own ends. We shall found our own armies... our own religion... our
own dynasty." (turning) "And that day is upon you -- now!"

Reread that one bit that goes: "... we shall build our own cities,
where there will be no place for humans except to serve our own
ends." At the time, I compared THAT prophecy of doom to the very
creation of the POTADG site: the purpose of the DG was TO SERVE THE
ENDS of its creators (who basically despised me), and in which there
would be NO PLACE for content that they censorily would snip out, the
way doctors in Urko's day would remove the "front bump" (just like
what would eventually happen to Landon). Snip snip. Drool. Ahhh, nice
and harmless.

I also brought up that scene in BATTLE--after Caesar had evolved into
a less harsh leader both of Apes AND of the surviving Humans--where,
after his secret trip to the Forbidden City (with Virgil and
MacDonald), Caesar welcomes the Humans into the formerly all-simian
Council. He reasons that the Apes need the help of the Humans in
planning against any potential Mutant invasion.

But Aldo, that film's spokesperson for the intolerant, leads his
gorillas in a chant: "NO HUMANS IN COUNCIL! NO HUMANS IN COUNCIL!"
And then he leads the gorillas OUT: "Come! We will NOT sit in council
with HUMANS!"

And Aldo and his gang go off to do their own thing--where not only
Humans but the other types of Apes would also not be welcome. They
seize power when the opportunity arises; they lock up the Humans in
the Corral (which Eric Greene cogently compares to Nazi concentration
camps); they engage their Mutant enemies with a "NO PRISONERS!" modus
operandi...

... and then Aldo, triumphantly posing on that old schoolbus, says to
his army (in David Gerrold's novelization): "Now we go home," he
said. "To OUR city. GORILLA CITY!" Aldo is just like what Caesar had
promised to be like, prior to Lisa's pacifying utterance of
that "negative imperative": "NO!" In Aldo's "GORILLA CITY", there
would be no place for Humans, except as slave labor at best. What
about the other apes? Aldo wasn't above murdering a fellow ape--an
ape child. And he wasn't above threatening to kill a human-loving
ape; he makes just such a threat to kill Caesar.

And THAT is when things go awry for him. The crowd turns. Oh, sure,
his gorillas briefly brandish their short-swords, like a line of
goose-stepping Nazis; but when the crowd starts a-muttering "Ape has
killed Ape!" over and over, even they hang their heads in shame.

That's what happens on the PLANET OF THE APES when arrogant, power-
hungry, grudge-holding malcontents splinter off from their own
Society: PEOPLE GET HURT. Which is fine, if you're "in favor" with
those who are the Top Dogs (Top Apes?) in the splinter group. But if
you're their target, you can rest assured that they'll eventually get
you... or at the very least TRY to get you.

Remember the set-up in MARVEL'S "TERROR ON THE PLANET OF THE APES"
series? The story of Jason & Alexander begins with the Humans and
Apes living on opposite/opposing sides of a river that runs through
Ape City. Jason & Alex are friends, sure... but Humans & Apes only
grudgingly tolerate each other.

Except for those who CAN'T tolerate any human: Brutus and his gorilla
Ape Supremacists. Using KKK-type terror-tactics (which is why they
called it "TERROR on the POTA"), they murder humans--and Brutus
murders his own wife... and then falsely accuses a human (Jason) of
having committed the crime, and THEN uses that lie to further his own
anti-human agenda, fanning the flames of Race hatred.

You know those books with titles like "EVERYTHING I EVER NEEDED TO
KNOW I LEARNED BY WATCHING STAR TREK", etc.? Well, POTA (and its
sequels) were the primary formative influences in my life--and, I
suspect, in the lives of many others who dig POTA enough to post
messages on these Yahoo groups. When this whole "splinter" thing
happened, it FELT to me like the Race-conflict separatist themes in
the POTA series. When that "somebody" was forging email-spam and
trying to make it seem as if I were the one doing it, it FELT like
Jason must've felt when Brutus tried to pin his own wife's murder on
him (and like how the humans must've felt in "THE DECEPTION", when
the murder of Lucian--by another ape--was first ALLEGED to be by a
human, resulting in the formation of the Dragoons.

That's how it FELT. To me, at any rate.

Am I ranting too much about this? Hah! Probably. But let it not be
said that I want to "silence" anybody. I don't mind it if ANYBODY out
there has a conflict with me. Anybody is free to speak their mind...
HERE, that is... and tell me exactly what they don't like about me,
my "take" on POTA, my novel-project's ideas & scenarios, etc. I don't
expect anybody to see either POTA or the World the way I see it. I've
given my opinions on all sorts of things; sometimes people have
agreed with 'em and other times some have bashed and/or
ridiculed 'em. And, in defense of my own ideas/opinions, I've knocked
that tennis ball back over the Net (sorry about the pun) and
anticipated it gettin' knocked back my way, so that I could knock it
back AGAIN. I tend to enjoy a good argument. And I always tried to
keep my arguing based on the POTA material, rather than "ad hominem"
attacks.

But I'm not at all surprised that there were SOME (notably, James &
Mike at-the-time) who either didn't like being on the receiving end
of me disagreeing with 'em or couldn't stand losing arguments with me
(hah!). And the DG was formed EXPLICITLY so that they could lord it
over a group that would go out of its way to prevent me from joining.

Not that I ever wanted to join it.

And, despite Mike's current extended "welcome" offer, I don't want to
join it now, either. Because I don't trust the Top Dogs over there.

If they are currently "successful", fine. Good for them. If this
group doesn't have as much traffic of late, so what? I haven't posted
much lately because I've generally been too busy in the little free
time I have to contribute much to ANY Yahoo group.

And it still kinda irks me that those who splintered off still want
to "piss in our pool". I'd prefer it if they (if EVERYBODY) would
post on-topic POTA-related stuff here. I'd prefer it if Mike in
particular would refrain from inundating THIS site with chatter about
the OTHER site; but, it seems, he prefers to stride across BOTH
groups like the Colossus of Rhodes or something. Sigh. And I'd prefer
it if his posts over here weren't in a HUGE typeface. I got crap for
my use of capitalization--which I use in lieu of italics, since I
post directly from this site, NOT from elsewhere emailed in; some say
that using ALL CAPS is equivalent to SHOUTING, which is considered
rude. Well, sending messages with HUGE lettering kinda seems similar,
don't it? Maybe Mike's postings are filtered through those "penis-
enlarger" spam-messages that clutter email inboxes!

So, I'm not gonna join the DG. Thanks, Mike, for the invite, but
sorry, no. To all the DG site's members, rest assured that I don't
bear any grudges against any of you. I just don't trust James, and I
don't see how anybody else (after that attempted "frame"-job) could,
either. But you're all free to trust whomever you will--just don't be
surprised if that trust should ever be betrayed. And you're all free
to post messages over at this group--which NEVER kicked anybody out,
or even ATTEMPTED to censor content.

THIS Yahoo POTA site, in my opinion, is the "Land of the Free and the
Home of the Brave". Nobody HAS to agree with anybody--that's
what "the American Way" is really all about: tolerating a person or
opinion (or Religion or Way-of-Life) that you personally don't agree
with. At least here we don't have a self-styled Caesar/Kaiser/Tsar/
Ayatollah/Imam/Fuhrer/Duce/etc. dictating what is or
isn't "acceptable". There ain't no "fatwas" on Salman Rushdie over
here, fellow Ape-onuts.

Our trains might not always run on time, but they get ya there. And
if the train ain't movin', you can always make your way through the
tunnel on foot. Just follow that HUMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM...
Just don't strangle the quiet chick in the tattered one-piece.

Sincerely,

Patrick, whose posts are always TOO GODDAMNED LONG! :-)
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Group: pota Message: 26899 From: Michael Whitty Date: 8/2/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] POTADG
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I don’t think it is a success.  What I want is to get a place we can ALL get together and show a bit of respect and compromise.  I don’t care what the address is, I don’t care who the individuals are, but I would hope that people could LISTEN to others and RESPECT their views.

 

To me, the POTADG it is a compromise, much like hippies had to compromise their ideals to make room for reality.  You can’t please ALL of the people ALL of the time.  But as far as compromises go, it does achieve the goal of getting a large population of ape fans together to discuss Planet of the Apes.

 

And you’re right, the more we say “let’s talk apes” on this group, the less it happens.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: veetus@... [veetus@...]
Sent:
Saturday, August 02, 2003 12:16 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] POTADG

 

I admit, the DG is a success, and the founders have gone out of their way to make it so. It seems like most people are still members of both (or at least check in once in awhile, though it's not difficult to keep up with this group now), but no one really uses this group to talk anymore. I'm the same way. If I bring up a topic in here, chances are no one will respond. In the DG they will. So, those who are big on keeping this group alive, we're not doing our jobs and it's no wonder people are leaving. But I'll remain here, even if I'm the last man standing.


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Group: pota Message: 26900 From: Michael Whitty Date: 8/2/2003
Subject: DG
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Well it is the wrong reaction.  Nobody is rubbing your nose in it.  If you don’t feel this group is a success, and you want to change that, then find out what the problem is and do something about it.

 

From what EVERYONE in THIS group has been saying, the problem IS your reaction.  It is also T’s reaction, and Tom’s reaction.  Nobody wants to hear about the moderators on the POTADG.  I found out the hard way.  When I felt Tom was unfairly banished by James, whom I do NOT always agree with, I fought hard to rally up a response from people that might change James’ mind.  The result?  People told me straight they did not want to be involved in politics, and I was ASTONISHED.  But it is true.  The only people reading these posts are you, me, T, Tom and Patrick.  I don’t think Rory is even reading them (correct me if I’m wrong Rory).  The other 90 or so people in this group would just be looking briefly and thinking “get over this shit, I don’t care if T has guns, I don’t care if Michael is a Nazi, just get on with it”.

 

Not listening to the cry from the others in the group puts us (yes, US, because I am now engaged in responding to these emails instead of ignoring them) in the same category as FOX.  Don’t listen to what the fans want, give them what we want to give them.  If we have any brains at all and really want this group to survive, then it is time to stop the shit and talk apes.

 

 

As for the "us" and "them" jokes, it's my reaction when I feel this group is being used to rub our noses in it for the success of the DG. I know there are those here who feel wronged by the DG process.

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Group: pota Message: 26901 From: Michael Whitty Date: 8/2/2003
Subject: DG
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Kass is right that groups are not a democracy.

 

Well, if this group was a democracy, you would listen to the majority and stop using it to discuss the DG.

 

Am I wrong?

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Group: pota Message: 26902 From: Michael Whitty Date: 8/2/2003
Subject: DG
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But people still have a right to feel that they've been unfairly censored or banned.

 

Only if they choose to.

 

As I said, I thought it was unfair to ban Tom.  I told James, I told Tom, I tried to do something about it, but in the end I succumbed to the call of the majority.  And every opportunity I had I tried to have Tom reinstated as he now is.

 

T was warned over and over after received complaints from DG members about the content of his postings.  If he was anyone else, he would have been kicked out WELL before he was, but I tried hard to keep him on until it became futile.  T had EVERY chance to stay in the group.  He lies about this, and has also contradicted himself by saying “I admit I did stir things up…but that’s because it is so dull over there..”.  So which is it?  I deserve to be thrown out because it is dull and I can’t help myself or I was done wrong?  T doesn’t even know himself, he just shoots off.

 

So yes, people have a right to feel what they want, but if you want this group to be a forum for them to voice their opinions, right or wrong, you WILL be the last man standing.

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Group: pota Message: 26903 From: Michael Whitty Date: 8/2/2003
Subject: Ape Chronicles
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As for Mr. Whitty's topic, "Ape Chronicles" was Terry Hoknes' idea in 1991, thanks to the Adventure comics. As Mr. Cougar said, we didn't start from ground zero. It wouldn't have existed without the comics, which in turn were apparently inspired by the new movie talk. At that time it was basically fan Adam Rifkin wanting to do a low-budget "Apes" movie and Fox saying, "We'll see". Terry advertised his fan club in the comics, that's where I learned about it and we got the ball rolling. It was always fairly small. Getting people to join a club (or even hear about it in the days before the internet) was modest. The "Apes" comeback since then is unfathomable. But those early days are special to me when we first found each other, the comics, and realized there were others who shared our interest. It's like a first time for anything. It gets better but it doesn't have the same impact. Now with the internet it's instant anything. Yes, I'd like to bring back "Chronicles" for old times sake and see how it does in this new age; maybe I'm getting a little too ambitious in the issues I'm working on and it's bogging me down. We'll see. But I think it would be fun to bring it back, people seem to have fond memories of it, back when they couldn't get "instant POTA". There was nothing back then. No documentaries, no books, no groups, even the comics were shortlived. There was a real sense of camaraderie, coupled with the distance between us at the time. What's this? Instant access to Australia and the U.K. and Canada ? The original "Ape Chronicles" came at the end of an age. I loved it. - - - Jeff

 

That’s better, we’re talking about Planet of the Apes!

 

OK, sorry I got it wrong but I thought Chronicles was before the Comics.  My point is that you are kinda my hero for being there and getting that ball rolling.  That was an incredible time.  I was in San Francisco buying Cadillacs and Pontiacs to import to Australia at the time and I went to a comic store that sold bongs.  I bought a bong and a bunch of Freak Brothers comics and asked the guy where I would get back issues of the old Curtis mags (my collection had started with #8 and I always wanted to get the earlier mags one day.  I had the stories thanks to the local Marvel release of the comics, but the local ones were a lot thinner).  The guy mentioned that POTA was to be a new release that year and I kinda didn’t know what to think…I was in shock (and stoned too I seem to recall).

 

I kept checking at the local comic store when I got back to Australia and low and behold it happened!  That’s when I REALLY got excited and that is the event I mark as the resurgence of Planet of the Apes.  What a bummer the comics didn’t work.

 

But Chronicles did go on and became the spirit of the Planet of the Apes.  That’swhy I hope to see it again and more of it.  There is no such thing as being too ambitious about such a thing, but I hope you are only ambitious enough so that we see an issue in the next 3 months or so!

 

Michael

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Group: pota Message: 26904 From: Michael Whitty Date: 8/2/2003
Subject: DG
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Plus I can't resist a good opening for some humor.

 

You say humor, I say humour….. ;)

 

It is difficult to know when you are being funny Jeff, and more often than not your humour is hiding a deeper, darker sentiment.

 

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Group: pota Message: 26905 From: Michael Whitty Date: 8/2/2003
Subject: DG
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And let's face it, moderators are human too, not apes.

 

Well that’s a compliment – actually calling moderators human!  I’ve been called a bastard, a nazi, a member of the tribunal, so it is rather nice to be referred to as human!

 

Of course moderators are human.  I actually made a big mistake recently when I spoke rather negatively about Ronald Reagan on the DG.  Being an Aussie, I don’t know one person here who would have voted for the guy, and every Aussie I have met thinks he is a joke.  But being on a group consisting of 80% Americans, it occurred to me after my comments that I had broken my own commandment by (accidentally) talking politics.

 

I apologised and stopped, which is kinda what I would expect from anyone breaking the rules.  Certainly, if I continue to do the same I would need to face consequences, just like everybody else.  But there was no human error in banning T from the DG.  It was a decision, after a laborious effort to stop him from being offensive, and it was at the request of other members of the group.  A few of them actually said “him or me”.  So it was him.  He very consciously decided to continue breaking the rules and got the consequence he deserved, and I think what he WANTED.

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Group: pota Message: 26906 From: Michael Whitty Date: 8/3/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] My two cents... after inflation
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Hi Patrick

 

Let’s try to keep it civil here.

 

I will respond to you if you agree to stay nice.

 

I will also require that we stick to one subject and one train of thought at a time so we don’t go off on tangents.

 

If that’s OK with you, let’s “talk”.

 

Again I must say that the decision to dwell on this is doing THIS group serious damage (THIS REALLY IS A GOOD TIME TO SPEAK UP, THOSE OF YOU WHO HAVE SAID THIS TO ME PRIVATELY), so we may decide to go private and agree on a condensed summary (that we both agree on) to the group at a later stage, or even just to those who wish to be involved and say so.

 

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@...]
Sent
:
Sunday, August 03, 2003 1:56 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] My two cents... after inflation

 

I haven't checked out the POTADG group since I last commented on its
content, which was way back several months ago at least. It's nice
that Jeff posts interesting POTA-related stuff to both sites;
frankly, those who are over at the DG site who give (or who have
given) this group guff could be as generous and post simultaneously--
unless, that is, they bear grudges against those of us who ONLY post
at this group. And, might that pretty much be just me?


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Group: pota Message: 26907 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 8/3/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] POTADG
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To me, the POTADG it is a compromise, much like hippies had to compromise their ideals to make room for reality.  You can't please ALL of the people ALL of the time.

You can't please ALL the people ALL the time. 
But you can kick out ALL of the people who you aren't pleased with.


I don't care who the individuals are, but I would hope that people could LISTEN to others and RESPECT their views.

And if you don't want to listen to them, or don't respect their view you can always kick them out.

What I want is to get a place we can ALL get together.

Except. of course, those who have been kicked out.













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Group: pota Message: 26908 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 8/3/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] DG
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.htmlIn a message dated 8/2/2003 7:40:33 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

T was warned over and over after received complaints from DG members about the content of his postings.  If he was anyone else, he would have been kicked out WELL before he was, but I tried hard to keep him on until it became futile.  T had EVERY chance to stay in the group.  He lies about this, and has also contradicted himself by saying "I admit I did stir things up…but that's because it is so dull over there..".  So which is it?  I deserve to be thrown out because it is dull and I can't help myself or I was done wrong?  T doesn't even know himself, he just shoots off.








I see no contradiction.  The answer is yes, things were dull.  Not sure what you would consider to deserving to be kicked out.  You to use your moderator status to censor my come backs to your attacks.  And I used the this group to thwart your efforts to thwart me.  It kind of amusing when you think about it.  But if sticking up for myself warrants being kicked out -- guilty as charged.  But I haven't ever lied about anything, with one exception.  I did say I would never be in such a group.  Actually I never left, though I remain only as a lurker.  I don't make contributions anymore since my efforts weren't really appreciated.  As Dennis Miller knows, if most don't get the joke, then it's probably just a waste of your time.





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Group: pota Message: 26909 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 8/3/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] My two cents... after inflation
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.htmlIn a message dated 8/2/2003 10:56:40 AM Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

But I remember WHY that other site got created in the first place: POTA fans who didn't like me in particular splintered off to create an alternative Yahoo POTA
site in which I specifically was NOT welcome. That was "then" and
this is "now", and Mike says I now AM welcome to join it.


I like you Pat.  But as you may know, as the owner of all the finest learning disabilities that human mind has to offer, reading isn't exactly one of my strong subjects.  I only wish there was a Reader's Digest version of some of your longer posts so that I could enjoy more of them.  I do think the Mothership Theory is crap though.

<<Now, if any of you reading this were to be the target of a "frame"
job by the chief architect of that splinter group--a group which Mike
admitted to me (in a private email, explicitly)>>

He admitted to me privately as well that he was deleting all my posts in an effort to have the last word.  Of course I felt the need to share that admission of guilt with others and of course this was intolerable, so I was banished to the Forbidden Zone.  I have returned, though my new identity (or identities) remain secret.

<<The dudes in charge of the DG took avid part in every goddamn "flame-war" that happened over here, then bitched that there was too much "flaming" going on. In my
book, that's just hypocrisy.>>

Now Pat, don't burst their bubble of riotous indignation.  They have worked so hard to make us look like the bad guys, I hate to kick over their sand castle.  Remember, hipocrocy looks through a one-way mirrow to only sees their faults in others.  They are blind to their own in the harsh daylight of self examination.

<<I can understand how THEY might not like trudging through a given month's messages, seeing all the shit-hitting-the-fan; it amuses me, though, that they are somehow led to believe that James & his gang were somehow INNOCENT of any of that. >>

Yes, and to the democrats Clinton was a great president, who only needed a BJ really badly, and wasn't quite sure what the definition of IS was.  And that every vote for Gore that was cast, even those after the polls had closed, or by criminals, or dead people, should have been counted.  If only to perpetuate the myth that he had won the popular vote.

I'd love to comment on the rest of this post.  But as Pat himself said, it is way too long.  I'll just wrap up by saying James (see Jeff!  I got it right this time) and Mike are a couple of Orangutans wanting to control, even the very perceptions of the group.  Except that Zaius would actually "Let them talk" if only to use as evidence against them in a Kangaroo Court.  But they're really more like a couple of Gorillas, with a truncheon and a gag handy to muzzle any detractors. Or failing that, cart them all off to the forbidden zone.






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Group: pota Message: 26910 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 8/3/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] POTADG
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I agree.
It seems to have become the POTADG Complaints Department, and that's not good.

I think it is very good.  I can say what I like here, without fear of being lobotomized.



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Group: pota Message: 26911 From: patrickmichaeltilton Date: 8/3/2003
Subject: "I can speak, so I spoke!"
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With all this yakkin' about "democracy" (etc.), it just goes to show
that people who live in the Modern World--which owes its existence to
the radical Founders of the U.S.A.--don't really understand the
difference between a Democracy and a Republic.

A Democracy (from Greek words meaning "rule by the Masses/Mob/Crowd")
is a type of government where 51%, the majority, can "legally"
disenfranchise the minority 49%. If 51% (or 50.00000001%, even) of
the people want to make the Rules and force their way on any minority
group, then such people--confident that their group will remain the
Majority--will unhesitatingly opt for a Democracy as their form of
government.

The United States was NOT, I repeat: NOT! founded as a Democracy. The
U.S.A. is a REPUBLIC, in the true sense of the word. Sure, a lot of
crummy nations CALL themselves Republics (Iraq & Iran, for instance,
usually call themselves "The Republic of Iraq", etc.)--as in
the "Union of Soviet Socialist REPUBLICS"... but that's like Mark
Antony calling Brutus & Cassius "honorable men". Those nations
were/are Dictatorships and Totalitarian regimes. When they call
themselves "republics" they do a disservice to the very word.

How is a Republic different from a Democracy? Simple: in a Republic,
there is no Rule by the Majority (a Democracy), or by the "Best" (an
Aristocracy), or by a Religion (a Theocracy), or by the Few (an
Oligarchy), or by One Person (a Monarchy, or Autocracy); instead,
there is a RULE OF LAW which applies to EVERYBODY. Likewise,
EVERYBODY is deemed the possessor of Un-take-away-able RIGHTS, such
as the right to be ALIVE (and to maintain Life), the right to be
FREE, and the right to PURSUE HAPPINESS. Other rights, such as the
right to PRIVACY, to OWN PROPERTY, to (UN-)BELIEF in the Religion of
one's choice--these rights are also an inherent part of the equation.
These rights aren't bestowed upon the People by any government: they
are possessed by each Individual simply by the act of EXISTING. In
the words of Jefferson, "... all men [i.e. Human beings] are created
equal" and "endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights"
etc. For "Creator", a Christian would interpret "Jesus Christ", a Jew
would say "Adonai Elohim", a Muslim would say "Allah", a Zoroastrian
would say "Ahura Mazda", an Atheist would say "Nature", etc.
Regardless of Who or What bestowed those Rights, they are ours
innately from Birth.

The Bill of Rights--which was written specifically to RESTRICT the
powers of the Federal Government--says, in no uncertain terms, that
Congress shall make NO LAW abridging the People's rights to Speech
(to Say what they WANT to say), or of the Press (to Publish what they
want to say).

Why do I have an inherent aversion to the POTADG site? Mike's
penchant for seeking to impose RULES that restrict the ability of
certain people to SAY what they want to say on the public "press"
that is the Message Board of that group. Speech which is considered
by "the Majority" (read Mike's most recent posts here) to
be "unacceptable" is to be rooted out, and the speaker is to be
kicked out if he/she won't tow-the-line and abide by the "rules". T
was "warned" about his unacceptable views... and they used their
Power to suppress them.

The 1st Amendment doesn't exist to safeguard opinions that the
Majority AGREES with. It exists to protect UNPOPULAR speech. Even the
Minority viewpoint, in a Republic, gets to enjoy the SAME FREEDOM
that popular views do, to get spoken/written/published. Any attempt
to infringe upon that right is the TRUE meaning of the term "un-
American"--a term Senator McCarthy desecrated when he used it to
refer to any viewpoint not held by ultra-Rightwingers like him and
other John Birch Society types.

In PLANET OF THE APES, the non-Republic government of the Ape society
is ruled by a group of strict "conservatives" who wish to maintain
a "status quo" (to paraphrase Zira's line in "BENEATH"); "I say that
it's time for a change," she says, and Cornelius asks: "We
Chimpanzees are too few [i.e. they are the MINORITY]; how can we show
any initiative when THEY [the Gorillas & Orangutans] are in control?"

When the artifacts in the Cave prove Cornelius' innocence, Zaius has
the evidence destroyed--and he orders a gorilla soldier to "silence"
Cornelius. The last moment we see Cornelius in "PLANET", he's being
taken away FORCIBLY by a gorilla, doomed to face trial for Heresy--
for a viewpoint which is not only "unpopular" but CRIMINAL. Had there
not been any sequel, this would be the last we ever "heard" from
Cornelius--his voice had been silenced.

In Taylor's "Hearing"/Tribunal, he seeks to speak for himself, on his
own behalf, and the one who's "in charge" (the President of the
Assembly) gives an order to the "Bailiff: Gag the animal!" Taylor
isn't allowed to speak in his own defense. His speech is muffled by a
gag forced over his mouth by a gorilla bailiff.

Landon once COULD speak... until Zaius' "fine veterinary surgeons"
performed a prefrontal lobotomy on him, so that "the beast could not
speak, of course--NOR WILL HE EVER SPEAK".

In the totalitarian society depicted in "CONQUEST", an ape who CAN
speak lives in fear of being KNOWN to be able to speak. The State
uses an electroshock table to torture him into speaking against his
will. "H-h-h-have... pity..." he gasps out. "Have him say something
else!" says Breck, and Kolp orders Caesar to speak again, with the
threat of torture to compel him. And Caesar's "foster-father",
Armando, is subjected to the indignity of a device called
an "Authenticator"--which "makes people tell the truth", Kolp says.
Armando doesn't have a lawyer present to protest the violation of his
5th Amendment rights. He is FORCED by the State Security agents to
submit to it. He is NOT in control of his speech; and "Free Speech"
is what it's all about.

Where does the "PLANET OF THE APES" saga stand in regards to matters
of Freedom-of-Speech? Clearly, the saga is on the side of the
oppressed minority, those who are marginalized by the Ruling Class.

THAT is why the very notion of a POTA group having oppressive Rules
which the Ruling Elite use to quell any dissenting voice... it's just
plain wrong. The POTADG group HAS such Rules; it HAS such a "Ruling
Class" using its power to censor speech it disagrees with, and to
evict those who "abuse" the "privilege" of posting their unpopular
views on that site.

There's a difference between a "privilege" and a RIGHT. It's the same
difference between a Democracy and a Republic. The POTADG is, at
best, a "democracy"--though it is actually an Oligarchy, ruled by
a "Few" top-dogs (James, etc.). But THIS site, the original Yahoo
POTA group, is a true Republic. This message board welcomes ALL
views, whether they're popular or not. Whether they represent
a "majority" viewpoint or a minority one--or even a "lone-nut" wacko
idiosyncratic point-of-view.

That's why I "respectfully decline" Mike's offer to join the DG, and
why I will always consider this POTA site to be the TRUE one, since
it's truer to the ideals that the POTA saga promulgates.

As Zira defiantly says, "I can SPEAK, so I SPOKE!"

Patrick

P.S. LordT, my "Mothership Theory"--you're free to think it's crap.
But it's BRILLIANT, I say. Brilliant! Hah! So THERE!
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Group: pota Message: 26912 From: Haristas@aol.com Date: 8/3/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] "I can speak, so I spoke!"
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.htmlIn a message dated 8/3/03 9:57:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:


Patrick

P.S. LordT, my "Mothership Theory"--you're free to think it's crap.
But it's BRILLIANT, I say. Brilliant! Hah! So THERE!





Shut up, you freak!

The United States was NOT, I repeat: NOT! founded as a Democracy. The
U.S.A. is a REPUBLIC, in the true sense of the word.

Yeah, not many people understand that.  Pure democracy is not a system you'd want to live under for it's no more than mob rule.  The majority is often wrong.  I'm sure the majority of Americans would vote not to pay taxes, but our elected representatives know better.

Look at what's going on in California with the recall petition.  This is mob rule run amok within the system.
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Group: pota Message: 26913 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 8/3/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] "I can speak, so I spoke!"
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.htmlIn a message dated 8/3/2003 8:57:13 AM Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

P.S. LordT, my "Mothership Theory"--you're free to think it's crap.
But it's BRILLIANT, I say. Brilliant! Hah! So THERE!


Yeah, it is . . .if you're delusional!  An A + for thinking outside the box (or script) but minus several million points for no proof to back it up.  If it's not in the script or the books, it's not canon.  Like they say (in the film) without proof it's still just a theory.
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Group: pota Message: 26914 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 8/3/2003
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] "I can speak, so I spoke!"
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.htmlIn a message dated 8/3/2003 9:09:42 AM Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

Look at what's going on in California with the recall petition.  This is mob rule run amok within the system.


I think all that smog and traffic and sitting on a faultline has made them crazy.
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