On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 4:04 AM, theskullpter@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

She is crazy. They are Apes. The humans in the film were of all races and the apes were just that "Apes". You do not need an ignorant Twitter friend to conversate with.You were in the right.Her loss.
APES RULE !!!

On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 4:11 AM, Terry Hoknes hoknes@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

The films are not racist

but I have always said the movies in their own way teach us about differences

and show us in a sense the racism that does exist in how we deal with things that are different

and how we are afraid and unwilling to relate to others that are different

On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 7:22 AM, Ian Boucher <pregamers@...> wrote:

Yes. They do very consciously and intelligently talk about through a truly variegated/rich set of ways, whether through overt or subtle dialogue or visuals, how people treat one another and the world around us, and address so many things, from the Inquisition, to many kinds of slavery, to American racism, to the 1917 revolution in Russia, to just plain animal cruelty, to family, to hubris, to nuclear war, to fate -- so many things!

On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 4:11 AM, Terry Hoknes hoknes@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

The films are not racist

but I have always said the movies in their own way teach us about differences

and show us in a sense the racism that does exist in how we deal with things that are different

and how we are afraid and unwilling to relate to others that are different

On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 7:22 AM, Ian Boucher <pregamers@...> wrote:

It's truly great science fiction.

On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 7:22 AM, Ian Boucher <pregamers@...> wrote:

Yes. They do very consciously and intelligently talk about through a truly variegated/rich set of ways, whether through overt or subtle dialogue or visuals, how people treat one another and the world around us, and address so many things, from the Inquisition, to many kinds of slavery, to American racism, to the 1917 revolution in Russia, to just plain animal cruelty, to family, to hubris, to nuclear war, to fate -- so many things!

On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 4:11 AM, Terry Hoknes hoknes@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

The films are not racist

but I have always said the movies in their own way teach us about differences

and show us in a sense the racism that does exist in how we deal with things that are different

and how we are afraid and unwilling to relate to others that are different

On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 7:24 AM, Ian Boucher <pregamers@...> wrote:

There are some race problems in the movies, but those are symptomatic of Hollywood in general and not the stories.

On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 7:22 AM, Ian Boucher <pregamers@...> wrote:

It's truly great science fiction.

On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 7:22 AM, Ian Boucher <pregamers@...> wrote:

Yes. They do very consciously and intelligently talk about through a truly variegated/rich set of ways, whether through overt or subtle dialogue or visuals, how people treat one another and the world around us, and address so many things, from the Inquisition, to many kinds of slavery, to American racism, to the 1917 revolution in Russia, to just plain animal cruelty, to family, to hubris, to nuclear war, to fate -- so many things!

On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 4:11 AM, Terry Hoknes hoknes@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

The films are not racist

but I have always said the movies in their own way teach us about differences

and show us in a sense the racism that does exist in how we deal with things that are different

and how we are afraid and unwilling to relate to others that are different

On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 7:24 AM, Ian Boucher <pregamers@...> wrote:

And I think those problems are improving, however slowly.

On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 7:24 AM, Ian Boucher <pregamers@...> wrote:

There are some race problems in the movies, but those are symptomatic of Hollywood in general and not the stories.

On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 7:22 AM, Ian Boucher <pregamers@...> wrote:

It's truly great science fiction.

On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 7:22 AM, Ian Boucher <pregamers@...> wrote:

Yes. They do very consciously and intelligently talk about through a truly variegated/rich set of ways, whether through overt or subtle dialogue or visuals, how people treat one another and the world around us, and address so many things, from the Inquisition, to many kinds of slavery, to American racism, to the 1917 revolution in Russia, to just plain animal cruelty, to family, to hubris, to nuclear war, to fate -- so many things!

On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 4:11 AM, Terry Hoknes hoknes@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

The films are not racist

but I have always said the movies in their own way teach us about differences

and show us in a sense the racism that does exist in how we deal with things that are different

and how we are afraid and unwilling to relate to others that are different

On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 10:23 PM, Haristas@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I honestly feel that the biggest problem in our culture is simply a plague of stupid. People have stupidly retreated to their comers and really aren't interested in hearing anything contrary from anyone else. They've made up whatever mind they have that they're right and it becomes calcified.

The concept of Planet of the Apes is misunderstood by many. I would have reminded this woman that Sammy Davis Jr. loved POTA and had one of the real Lawgiver statues in his backyard until his death. But she probably would have accused you of making it up.

-----Original Message-----
From: Ian Boucher pregamers@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com>
To: pota <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Jul 14, 2014 6:16 pm
Subject: [pota] FYI: the Apes series is not racist

Hey all, just wanted to share that I got reamed out by someone on Twitter yesterday because I politely disagreed with her statement that the Apes in the Apes series are meant to be, in her words, "scary black people." I explained my thought process to her as well.

As a result, I was accused of completely denying racism in Hollywood and denying white privilege in American society, and outright called a close-minded white male, among other things, even though I compassionately brought up many race problems present throughout Hollywood during the exchange.

And this was someone I had built a good conversational relationship with on Twitter. Because of this one disagreement, I was literally written off.

Just wanted to share this with some Apes fans. It's flabbergasting to me.

It's amazing how people can treat one another, even when we don't even really know each other. The Internet is supposed to be a place for progress. And the Apes movies remind me of that!

-Ian Boucher

On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 8:06 AM, Dario Sciola <dario.sciola@...> wrote:

She probably would know who "The Candyman" is, let alone who or what a Lawgiver is. Nobody needs friends who can't engage in intelligent conversation.

Dario

On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 10:23 PM, Haristas@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I honestly feel that the biggest problem in our culture is simply a plague of stupid. People have stupidly retreated to their comers and really aren't interested in hearing anything contrary from anyone else. They've made up whatever mind they have that they're right and it becomes calcified.

The concept of Planet of the Apes is misunderstood by many. I would have reminded this woman that Sammy Davis Jr. loved POTA and had one of the real Lawgiver statues in his backyard until his death. But she probably would have accused you of making it up.

-----Original Message-----
From: Ian Boucher pregamers@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com>
To: pota <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Jul 14, 2014 6:16 pm
Subject: [pota] FYI: the Apes series is not racist

Hey all, just wanted to share that I got reamed out by someone on Twitter yesterday because I politely disagreed with her statement that the Apes in the Apes series are meant to be, in her words, "scary black people." I explained my thought process to her as well.

As a result, I was accused of completely denying racism in Hollywood and denying white privilege in American society, and outright called a close-minded white male, among other things, even though I compassionately brought up many race problems present throughout Hollywood during the exchange.

And this was someone I had built a good conversational relationship with on Twitter. Because of this one disagreement, I was literally written off.

Just wanted to share this with some Apes fans. It's flabbergasting to me.

It's amazing how people can treat one another, even when we don't even really know each other. The Internet is supposed to be a place for progress. And the Apes movies remind me of that!

-Ian Boucher

On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 8:06 AM, Dario Sciola dario.sciola@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

She probably would know who "The Candyman" is, let alone who or what a Lawgiver is. Nobody needs friends who can't engage in intelligent conversation.

Dario

On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 10:23 PM, Haristas@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I honestly feel that the biggest problem in our culture is simply a plague of stupid. People have stupidly retreated to their comers and really aren't interested in hearing anything contrary from anyone else. They've made up whatever mind they have that they're right and it becomes calcified.

The concept of Planet of the Apes is misunderstood by many. I would have reminded this woman that Sammy Davis Jr. loved POTA and had one of the real Lawgiver statues in his backyard until his death. But she probably would have accused you of making it up.

-----Original Message-----
From: Ian Boucher pregamers@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com>
To: pota <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Jul 14, 2014 6:16 pm
Subject: [pota] FYI: the Apes series is not racist

Hey all, just wanted to share that I got reamed out by someone on Twitter yesterday because I politely disagreed with her statement that the Apes in the Apes series are meant to be, in her words, "scary black people." I explained my thought process to her as well.

As a result, I was accused of completely denying racism in Hollywood and denying white privilege in American society, and outright called a close-minded white male, among other things, even though I compassionately brought up many race problems present throughout Hollywood during the exchange.

And this was someone I had built a good conversational relationship with on Twitter. Because of this one disagreement, I was literally written off.

Just wanted to share this with some Apes fans. It's flabbergasting to me.

It's amazing how people can treat one another, even when we don't even really know each other. The Internet is supposed to be a place for progress. And the Apes movies remind me of that!

-Ian Boucher

On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 10:50 AM, Haristas@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I just don't share your negative views of the new movies. The apes in the new ones are supposed to be primitive apes. They're not supposed to look like the apes from the original film, which were evolved apes, and the fact that the filmmakers didn't change the makeup design as the original series of films moved backward in time to an era of more primitive apes is a major flaw with those films and something I find more than a little painful to watch now. It's almost as distracting as seeing the apes wearing the same costumes in BATTLE as they wear in the first two films that take place two thousand years later. Two millennia and no evolution in the style of dress? That's one retarded ape society!

Now, while I'm personally getting tired of the naked apes of the reboots, I can understand why it is that way, and why it's likely to continue through at least the third film and possibly a forth.

Also, I'm one APES fans that while I don't agree with the closed-loop view of the series, I do agree with the "Dehnian" view of time, mentioned in both ESCAPE and BATTLE, as an infinite number of lanes all running from the past into the future of lanes and that one can change lanes and so there are infinite possible scenarios as to how the planet evolved into the world of the 1968 movie. RISE and DAWN are stories on one of those lanes, and they are just as legitimate as prequels to the '68 movie as ESCAPE, CONQUEST and BATTLE are, and since those three films in the series had their share of inconsistencies that have vexed fans for forty years now, I contend that RISE and DAWN "fit" just as well as they do. They are legitimate "Planet of the Apes" movies, and so I don't agree with your view at all.

-----Original Message-----
From: millerdsplaydzign@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com>
To: pota <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Jul 15, 2014 3:18 am
Subject: Re: [pota] A Thought Has Occurred to Me....

As nice an idea as that it might be, I think fans are having to work too hard to somehow shoehorn these new movies into a storyline that has already been established for over four decades.

Done properly, they might have integrated effortlessly, seamlessly.

I look at footage from the new projects and see them as ignoring / indifferent to the original films, incompatible, both in story and in visual style, no matter what the latest promotional sound bite to be released by Fox Marketing says.

There shouldn't have to be a brainstorming session on the part of fans to help people figure out how to force a "reboot" to fit in. If it works, it works (and, having 40+ years to come up with a story, it SHOULD work by now);
I'll be so happy when both the word and concept of "reboot" are viewed by the masses with the same mixture of embarrassment, irritation, and contempt, as people now feel when they hear expressions l ike "bling" or "metrosexual" ("selfie" and "twerk" are also suitable examples).

It wouldn't have taken much effort for the writers and directors of the new movies to make them effective as credible prequels to the world of the '68 movie, while remaining in compliance with the dramatic exposition given later in the original series, exposition which, by the third film, already laid out how Apes came to power the first time around -- without a Caesar character.

Given that that the new stories don't fit, and the look of the Apes doesn't mesh (hell, most of the time they don't even look like they actually exist in the same scene as the live actors, let alone belong to the world of POTA '68), I have a hard time understanding why there's sufficient reason to worry about how to include them, or even to pay to see them.

I guess if one is truly a "live it, breathe it" die-hard fan, and is desperate enough for any new Apes project to become excited over and (more importantly) spend money on, anything at all, then ultimately it will become possible for that person to rationalize how and why the new movies are able to belong.

Beyond that, and speaking just for myself (a fan who loves the original series, and doesn't think adding new installments which further erode continuity and visual style has done it any favors),
merely having the name "Planet of the Apes" attached to a project surely cannot be reason enough
for fans to spend their money, or invest their time,
or invest the mental/emotional energy required to "love" a trademarked, tightly regulated franchise held by a multinational corporation whose holdings and media assets extend around the world -
on any of the three recent Apes projects.

On Thu, Jul 17, 2014 at 9:57 AM, Haristas@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

I just watched that featurette, I must of missed that. What's the time code where Corrington make that exact statement?

I said: "Joyce Hooper Corrington, says that they rejected Dehn's circular timeline and worked to change that outcome."

This is the "End of an Epic: The Final Battle" featurette narrated by James Brolin.

14:14 Quote Joyce Hooper Corrington: "We hope we're in a new timeline."

The Corringtons wanted to change the future so it wouldn't lead to the final of BENEATH and if you listen carefully to what Eric Greene says, so did Arthur P. Jacobs. Nearly everyone knew they'd made a terrible decision to destroy the earth in the second one. In retrospect no one liked it, especially the guy who directed it, Ted Post. There was just one guy that liked it, Paul Dehn, and if you listen to what Eric Greene says about Dehn you'll see why, but Dehn is not the "master of the franchise." Like Taylor in PLANET, he was negative! Finally listen to what Eric Greene says about how the Corringtons depiction of the Lawgiver. And as Joyce Hooper Corrington finally says, "We just have to keep hoping we've changed things."

This leaves everyone who watches the series free to choose, because the series never went beyond BATTLE so we'll never know if the future was changed, but I for one sure hope so. I choose not to be a negative "Dehnian." I say keep hope alive. KEEP HOPE ALIVE!

Rory

-----Original Message-----
From: JamesA1102@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com>
To: pota <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Jul 17, 2014 7:47 am
Subject: [pota] Re: A Thought Has Occurred to Me....

I just watched that featurette, I must of missed that. What's the time code where Corrington make that exact statement?

---In pota@yahoogroups.com, <Haristas@...> wrote :

Watch the featurette on the BATTLE Blu-ray where one of BATTLE's screenwriters, Joyce Hooper Corrington, says that they rejected Dehn's circular timeline and worked to change that outcome. Even Dehn, who did a rewrite of their script, didn't change their conception except to add the weeping statue at the end, something the Corrington's hated.

The series is simply full of contradictions.