Yahoo! pota group — Messages 73254–73353

Dates: 2014-07-29 through 2014-08-07

Messages in pota group. Page 726 of 764.
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Group: pota Message: 73254 From: Jeff K. Date: 7/29/2014
Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
Group: pota Message: 73255 From: Jeff K. Date: 7/29/2014
Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
Group: pota Message: 73256 From: haristas Date: 7/29/2014
Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
Group: pota Message: 73257 From: haristas Date: 7/29/2014
Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
Group: pota Message: 73258 From: jamesa1102 Date: 7/29/2014
Subject: Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues
Group: pota Message: 73259 From: haristas Date: 7/29/2014
Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
Group: pota Message: 73260 From: jamesa1102 Date: 7/29/2014
Subject: Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues
Group: pota Message: 73261 From: jamesa1102 Date: 7/29/2014
Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
Group: pota Message: 73262 From: jamesa1102 Date: 7/29/2014
Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
Group: pota Message: 73263 From: jamesa1102 Date: 7/29/2014
Subject: Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues
Group: pota Message: 73264 From: haristas Date: 7/29/2014
Subject: Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues
Group: pota Message: 73265 From: jamesa1102 Date: 7/29/2014
Subject: Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues
Group: pota Message: 73266 From: jamesa1102 Date: 7/29/2014
Subject: Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues
Group: pota Message: 73267 From: jamesa1102 Date: 7/29/2014
Subject: Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues
Group: pota Message: 73268 From: haristas Date: 7/29/2014
Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
Group: pota Message: 73269 From: haristas Date: 7/29/2014
Subject: Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues
Group: pota Message: 73270 From: Jeff K. Date: 7/29/2014
Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
Group: pota Message: 73271 From: haristas Date: 7/29/2014
Subject: On the subject of dates
Group: pota Message: 73272 From: Jeff K. Date: 7/29/2014
Subject: Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues
Group: pota Message: 73273 From: Jeff K. Date: 7/29/2014
Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
Group: pota Message: 73274 From: Jeff K. Date: 7/29/2014
Subject: Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues
Group: pota Message: 73275 From: Jeff K. Date: 7/29/2014
Subject: Re: On the subject of dates
Group: pota Message: 73276 From: Jeff K. Date: 7/29/2014
Subject: Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues
Group: pota Message: 73277 From: monkeymermaid65 Date: 7/29/2014
Subject: Re: On the subject of dates
Group: pota Message: 73278 From: knightangel314 Date: 7/30/2014
Subject: Re: Beneath
Group: pota Message: 73279 From: mlccougar Date: 7/30/2014
Subject: Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues
Group: pota Message: 73280 From: William Burge Date: 7/30/2014
Subject: dawn marquee
Group: pota Message: 73281 From: jamesa1102 Date: 7/30/2014
Subject: Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues
Group: pota Message: 73282 From: jamesa1102 Date: 7/30/2014
Subject: Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues
Group: pota Message: 73283 From: jamesa1102 Date: 7/30/2014
Subject: Re: On the subject of dates
Group: pota Message: 73284 From: haristas Date: 7/30/2014
Subject: Re: Beneath
Group: pota Message: 73285 From: Jeff K. Date: 7/30/2014
Subject: Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues
Group: pota Message: 73286 From: haristas Date: 7/30/2014
Subject: Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues
Group: pota Message: 73287 From: Dario Sciola Date: 7/30/2014
Subject: Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues
Group: pota Message: 73288 From: Jeff K. Date: 7/30/2014
Subject: Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues
Group: pota Message: 73289 From: Stuart Drucker Date: 7/30/2014
Subject: Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues
Group: pota Message: 73290 From: William Burge Date: 7/30/2014
Subject: planet photos
Group: pota Message: 73291 From: haristas Date: 7/30/2014
Subject: Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues
Group: pota Message: 73292 From: haristas Date: 7/30/2014
Subject: Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues
Group: pota Message: 73293 From: Dr. Xs Creatures Date: 7/30/2014
Subject: Re: next "Dawn" NECA figures
Group: pota Message: 73294 From: Dario Sciola Date: 7/30/2014
Subject: Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues
Group: pota Message: 73295 From: Jeff K. Date: 7/30/2014
Subject: In your NECA the woods?
Group: pota Message: 73296 From: zasco1957 Date: 7/30/2014
Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
Group: pota Message: 73297 From: zasco1957 Date: 7/30/2014
Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
Group: pota Message: 73298 From: zasco1957 Date: 7/30/2014
Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
Group: pota Message: 73299 From: pota@yahoogroups.com Date: 7/30/2014
Subject: Don Murray's & France Nuyen's Birthdays, 7/31/2014, 12:00 am
Group: pota Message: 73300 From: William Burge Date: 7/31/2014
Subject: ape goodies
Group: pota Message: 73301 From: pota@yahoogroups.com Date: 7/31/2014
Subject: J. Lee Thompson was born in 1914, 8/1/2014, 12:00 am
Group: pota Message: 73302 From: georgetaylor68 Date: 8/1/2014
Subject: Re: Where APES could go
Group: pota Message: 73303 From: jamesa1102 Date: 8/1/2014
Subject: Hasslein Institute of Temporal Physics
Group: pota Message: 73304 From: William Burge Date: 8/1/2014
Subject: ape ticket stubs
Group: pota Message: 73305 From: Jeff K. Date: 8/1/2014
Subject: NECA Classic Apes review
Group: pota Message: 73306 From: scottgeorge40 Date: 8/1/2014
Subject: Re: Where APES could go
Group: pota Message: 73307 From: Jeff K. Date: 8/1/2014
Subject: Matt Reeves and Fox tie the knot
Group: pota Message: 73308 From: Jeff K. Date: 8/1/2014
Subject: ape overload in 2016?
Group: pota Message: 73309 From: James Date: 8/2/2014
Subject: FW: Google Alert - "planet of the apes"
Group: pota Message: 73310 From: William Burge Date: 8/2/2014
Subject: conquest art
Group: pota Message: 73311 From: William Burge Date: 8/3/2014
Subject: ape goodies
Group: pota Message: 73312 From: mlccougar Date: 8/3/2014
Subject: Dawn/POTA & box office expectations
Group: pota Message: 73313 From: haristas Date: 8/3/2014
Subject: Re: Dawn/POTA & box office expectations
Group: pota Message: 73314 From: Bill Hollweg Date: 8/3/2014
Subject: Re: Hasslein Institute of Temporal Physics
Group: pota Message: 73315 From: Jeff K. Date: 8/3/2014
Subject: box office: raccoon vs. ape
Group: pota Message: 73316 From: haristas Date: 8/3/2014
Subject: Re: box office: raccoon vs. ape
Group: pota Message: 73317 From: Alex Ruiz Date: 8/3/2014
Subject: Re: box office: raccoon vs. ape
Group: pota Message: 73318 From: Jeff K. Date: 8/3/2014
Subject: Re: box office: raccoon vs. ape
Group: pota Message: 73319 From: Jeff K. Date: 8/3/2014
Subject: Pierre Boulle
Group: pota Message: 73320 From: Jeff K. Date: 8/3/2014
Subject: Re: box office: raccoon vs. ape
Group: pota Message: 73321 From: Jeff K. Date: 8/3/2014
Subject: Re: box office: raccoon vs. ape
Group: pota Message: 73322 From: Jeff K. Date: 8/4/2014
Subject: Pierre Boulle Association
Group: pota Message: 73323 From: Alex Ruiz Date: 8/4/2014
Subject: Re: box office: raccoon vs. ape
Group: pota Message: 73324 From: William Burge Date: 8/4/2014
Subject: planet items
Group: pota Message: 73325 From: pota@yahoogroups.com Date: 8/4/2014
Subject: Natalie Trundy's Birthday, 8/5/2014, 12:00 am
Group: pota Message: 73326 From: pota@yahoogroups.com Date: 8/4/2014
Subject: Rise of the Planet of the Apes premiered in this day in 2012, 8/5/20
Group: pota Message: 73327 From: pota@yahoogroups.com Date: 8/4/2014
Subject: Joyce Hooper Corrington's Birthday, 8/5/2014, 12:00 am
Group: pota Message: 73328 From: Jeff K. Date: 8/5/2014
Subject: NECA: giving POTA a shot
Group: pota Message: 73329 From: mikem3978 Date: 8/5/2014
Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
Group: pota Message: 73330 From: haristas Date: 8/5/2014
Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
Group: pota Message: 73331 From: Jeff K. Date: 8/5/2014
Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
Group: pota Message: 73332 From: William Burge Date: 8/5/2014
Subject: ape goodies
Group: pota Message: 73333 From: mlccougar Date: 8/6/2014
Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
Group: pota Message: 73334 From: jamesa1102 Date: 8/6/2014
Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
Group: pota Message: 73335 From: mlccougar Date: 8/6/2014
Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
Group: pota Message: 73336 From: haristas Date: 8/6/2014
Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
Group: pota Message: 73337 From: Dario Sciola Date: 8/6/2014
Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
Group: pota Message: 73338 From: Jeff K. Date: 8/6/2014
Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
Group: pota Message: 73339 From: mikem3978 Date: 8/6/2014
Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
Group: pota Message: 73340 From: haristas Date: 8/6/2014
Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
Group: pota Message: 73341 From: monkeymermaid65 Date: 8/6/2014
Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
Group: pota Message: 73342 From: haristas Date: 8/6/2014
Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
Group: pota Message: 73343 From: Jeff K. Date: 8/6/2014
Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
Group: pota Message: 73344 From: monkeymermaid65 Date: 8/6/2014
Subject: Prebootquel
Group: pota Message: 73345 From: Jeff K. Date: 8/6/2014
Subject: OT: GEN(I)SYS
Group: pota Message: 73346 From: haristas Date: 8/6/2014
Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
Group: pota Message: 73347 From: Dario Sciola Date: 8/6/2014
Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
Group: pota Message: 73348 From: Dario Sciola Date: 8/6/2014
Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
Group: pota Message: 73349 From: Jeff K. Date: 8/6/2014
Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
Group: pota Message: 73350 From: monkeymermaid65 Date: 8/6/2014
Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
Group: pota Message: 73351 From: jamesa1102 Date: 8/6/2014
Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
Group: pota Message: 73352 From: mlccougar Date: 8/7/2014
Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
Group: pota Message: 73353 From: mlccougar Date: 8/7/2014
Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:


Group: pota Message: 73254 From: Jeff K. Date: 7/29/2014
Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
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  Of course. When I watch "Planet" I never say, "No! That's 3955!". But we're talking about the big picture here. One can dismiss the sequels but they exist and fans will always debate them. They weren't planning sequels when "Planet" was made but eventually they did make them. It's hard to discount "Beneath" with even Heston in it.

Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 6:04 AM
Subject: [pota] Re: Different questions and issues:

 

 
 1. I go by 3955, since it's confirmed by NASA experts in "Escape". Zira sez "3950... something" in "Escape" and they just lopped off the "something" in "Battle".
 
 
 
 
When it comes to the original movie, it's 3978 -- because that's what they showed and there was no sequel(s) when they made it.
 
When it comes to the sequels, go by 3955 -- because now you're watching the sequels and they're separate movies with their only connection to the original film being that they are aping it, and rather badly.

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Group: pota Message: 73255 From: Jeff K. Date: 7/29/2014
Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
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  You can say that about any sequel. So what's the difference with "Rise" and "Dawn", which you say you can only accept as leading to POTA68?

Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 6:19 AM
Subject: [pota] Re: Different questions and issues:

 

It's impossible to make sense out of all the conflicting time and dates given in the films and adaptations. I say both Taylor's and Brent's spaceships had their clocks messed up, and the actual date lies somewhere in between  3955 and 3978.
 
 
 
It's very simple and there's really only one way to look at it and that's to keep it real -- they're movies, with separate stories that each have their own conclusions.  The original film is the first story and in case no one has noticed the director has a closeup of the ship's clock that very clearly shows the year 3978.  Because PLANET came first, because it was made without any intention of there being a sequel, what's shown in it trumps the sequels as to what is "canon."  The original work establishes the basic canon.  Sequels don't change or erase what's in the original work.  The 3955 date in the sequels is just one element that separates the original from its sequels.  It's an inconsistency but it's not something that the viewer should obsess over.  The only way to seriously deal with it is to ignore it, respect each film as a story unto itself and not try to make five separate films, five separate stories, into one film, one story, divided into five parts -- because the reality is the opposite. 

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Group: pota Message: 73256 From: haristas Date: 7/29/2014
Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
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The "odd weather" and no moon is B. S., said to make it seem like it's an alien planet, so being a product of the mutants saves it.
 
 
 
Lame.  It's just plain lame.
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Group: pota Message: 73257 From: haristas Date: 7/29/2014
Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
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It's hard to discount "Beneath" with even Heston in it.
 
 
 
Is it?  I find it very easy, being the ill-conceived mess that it is.  Best comment ever about BENEATH: the expression on Mort Abrahams' face when he makes his last words about it in the "Behind the Planet of the Apes" documentary.  Priceless.
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Group: pota Message: 73258 From: jamesa1102 Date: 7/29/2014
Subject: Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues
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---In pota@yahoogroups.com, <mlccougar@...> wrote :
True enough, but then why even try to connect them to the original anyway? A rebooted franchise doesn't have to connect to the originals, that's why they're reboots: So they can do their own take on an already existing franchise... To me, these new films have as much to do with the original PLANET than the BATMAN TV series from the 60s has to do with Michael Keaton's 1989 film also called BATMAN... They may be inspired by the same source, even have some things in common, but two different animals...

 

Well said. There have been numerous versions of many franchises from Sherlock Holmes to Superman. There have already been different versions of POTA. However, if it increases someone's enjoyment of the reboot films to connect them to the original, more power to them.


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Group: pota Message: 73259 From: haristas Date: 7/29/2014
Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
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You can say that about any sequel. So what's the difference with "Rise" and "Dawn", which you say you can only accept as leading to POTA68?
 
 
 
There is no difference (if I'm understanding you right).  I accept RISE and DAWN as prequels to PLANET, but the launch date of Taylor's ship as indicated in PLANET is now a dated element.  You simply adjust your orientation.  It's easy.  You just go with what RISE proposes because this is now and the 1968 movie was then.
 
When I watch PLANET it's 1968 again and nothing else exists.
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Group: pota Message: 73260 From: jamesa1102 Date: 7/29/2014
Subject: Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues
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---In pota@yahoogroups.com, <veetus@...> wrote :
  I agree it's sloppy and having to make excuses isn't a hallmark of good writing, but it works for me. C & Z cut a deal with Zaius that if he'll "come clean" with them they will shut their traps about the talking human. True, he could've just chopped their heads off to keep them quiet. But something happened between POTA and Beneath where Zaius became very friendly toward them (even though they don't really return it). Zaius showed them "history scrolls kept from the masses" and maintained the status quo. If Zaius showed them the scrolls it adds even more credence to the Aldo stuff in "Escape" being a fabrication. Maybe not the intent of "Planet" but it works.
 
Sounds fine to me.

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Group: pota Message: 73261 From: jamesa1102 Date: 7/29/2014
Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
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---In pota@yahoogroups.com, <Zasco1957@...> wrote :

My fellow Apes,
 
Maybe you can answer these different questions and concerns for me regarding the series.
 
   1.  What year are we supposed to go by regarding the first three movies?  Taylor's ship reads 11-25-3978; Brent mentions to Skipper that the year was 3955, as did Zira in Escape...but in Battle, she mentions 3950.  (I have the Malibu Graphics' editions of the first three movies in my collection, and not only does Taylor's ship show the year 3975 as the year, but a Mr. Jim Korkis has written some notes at the beginning of the Escape adaptation...and has mistakenly mentioned the year as 3995!)
 
I always tend to go with 3978 since that is what is stated in the original. But that is a personal choice. Go with whatever works for you.
 
3.  I've also heard that. one day, it's possible FOX may finally include the deleted footage on Escape regarding Drs. Zira, Cornelius and Milo in the spaceship orbiting the Earth as the Bomb went off...the subsequent explosion, shock wave and the time warp which sent them back to our time.  However, Mr. Aquila has done a fantastic job already putting some things together for a "Escape Pre-Title Redux"...I've seen it and have enjoyed it thoroughly.
 
Thanks. The Redux was the work of several helpful and talented people.
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Group: pota Message: 73262 From: jamesa1102 Date: 7/29/2014
Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
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---In pota@yahoogroups.com, <monkeymermaid65@...> wrote :

It's impossible to make sense out of all the conflicting time and dates given in the films and adaptations. I say both Taylor's and Brent's spaceships had their clocks messed up, and the actual date lies somewhere in between  3955 and 3978.
 
Taylor did say they were away from earth for 2,000 years give or take a decade which infers the clocks were approximate and not exact.
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Group: pota Message: 73263 From: jamesa1102 Date: 7/29/2014
Subject: Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues
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---In pota@yahoogroups.com, <mlccougar@...> wrote :

Well, it may not have been totally accurate, but there must have been truth to it, especially if you're of the "circular" point of view...

Cornelius tells of a dog and cat plague, which comes to be again due to what we see in CONQUEST... He also tells of apes being enslaved, also shown to have come to being again in CONQUEST... For the circularists who say everything that happened originally will happen again, then why couldn't the Aldo thing have been true, but to a lesser extent in the "circle" due to it being Caesar who started the revolt the second time around?

I hope you get what I'm saying here...

Totally get what you're saying. Most of what Cornelius said came true, it's just the timeframe that's distorted and the bit about Aldo being the first ape to speak. But those discrepancies can be explained in many ways particularly since the timeframe is inconsistant with what's presented in the first two films and the events Cornelius describes are never seen on screen.
 
The only thing I don't really agree with is 'the second time around'. Events happen once, they don't repeat.
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Group: pota Message: 73264 From: haristas Date: 7/29/2014
Subject: Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues
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---In pota@yahoogroups.com, <veetus@...> wrote :
  I agree it's sloppy and having to make excuses isn't a hallmark of good writing, but it works for me. C & Z cut a deal with Zaius that if he'll "come clean" with them they will shut their traps about the talking human. True, he could've just chopped their heads off to keep them quiet. But something happened between POTA and Beneath where Zaius became very friendly toward them (even though they don't really return it). Zaius showed them "history scrolls kept from the masses" and maintained the status quo. If Zaius showed them the scrolls it adds even more credence to the Aldo stuff in "Escape" being a fabrication. Maybe not the intent of "Planet" but it works.
 
Sounds fine to me.
 
 
 
It sounds fine until you watch the original film again and hear the line that Dr. Zaius, "Looks down his nose at chimpanzees," that he's the Chief Defender of the Faith (which means he has a big interest in repressing the truth) and that he actually thanks Taylor for helping "expose Zira and Cornelius."  There's also no indication from what Zaius says in PLANET that he "knows" anything about the ancient history other than what's in the same Scared Scrolls available for all apes to read.  "Have you forgotten your scriptures?"
 
Sounds dippy to me, but this is the unfortunate influence of BENEATH on the franchise, where the Dr. Zaius of that film is a shadow of what he was in PLANET.  Again, the screenwriters of the sequels not fully understanding or misinterpreting what's in the original.  Damn them all to hell.
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Group: pota Message: 73265 From: jamesa1102 Date: 7/29/2014
Subject: Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues
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---In pota@yahoogroups.com, <dario.sciola@...> wrote :

I think that too much emphasis is placed on Cornelius' explanation to the court of how the revolt started with Aldo. I don't think he ever said Aldo led the revolution. He just said it started with Aldo who was the first to rebel by saying "No". I've always taken that to me it was some sort of spark to a revolution. A "Rosa Parks" moment of defiance.  I should rewatch that scene. Am I the only to interpret it this way?

No, not at all. C&Z never say there was a revolution either. When re-reading the novel, Dehn seemed to borrow from in so he could have been suggesting something closer to the novel when he wrote it.
 
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Group: pota Message: 73266 From: jamesa1102 Date: 7/29/2014
Subject: Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues
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---In pota@yahoogroups.com, <Haristas@...> wrote :
 We're all able to watch the original '68 film and that film makes it very plain what the "world" of the planet of the apes is.  If the makers of the new movies are using it as what they're ultimately aiming to bring back into being or inferring that it will be the world that comes into being as a result of the events they've created in a series of new films, then those films are prequels. 
 
The argument over this is more about what defines a prequel.  Some have a very limited, restrictive view, and as I understand it is that a prequel is only a prequel if it's adhering to a strict law of continuity.  What's ironic is that if that same rule is applied to the '70s APES sequels, they often fail.  So in order to except the '70s sequels as sequels, you can't get hung up on continuity, but in order to except the reboot APES movies of today as prequels, they have to obey a strict definition of continuity?  I don't think so. 
 
I think it all depends on how you define a prequel. Are they literal prequels like the Star Wars prequels that will continue a story arc to the original? Or are they prequels in spirit like Batman Begins or Casino Royale that tell an origin story that leads to something similar to the original?
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Group: pota Message: 73267 From: jamesa1102 Date: 7/29/2014
Subject: Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues
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---In pota@yahoogroups.com, <Haristas@...> wrote :
James may not like hearing this, but this is one of the reason's I have little respect for what Dehn did with the sequels, or rather what he didn't do -- pay close attention to what came before.  At the end of PLANET, Cornelius and Zira are being taken by Zaius back to the ape society to be tried for heresy, where he says they'll serve at least two years in prison.  But in BENEATH they are married and living as if nothing has happened, then in ESCAPE Cornelius says, "As an archeologist I had access to history scrolls which were kept secret from the masses."  On what planet did that happen?  There's no indication in PLANET that Cornelius knows anything he tells in ESCAPE, nor is it very likely that an accused heretic would be granted such access in the society we see in PLANET and BENEATH.
 
There actually is a line in the script for Beneath that covers this, its vague but Dehn didn't totally ignore the issue. https://pota.goatley.com/scripts/pota_beneath_final.pdf it's on page 34 of the pdf.
 
So let us acknowledge that Dehn was a clever, but sloppy writer, perhaps too rushed between films, but by all means let us let Dehn be Dehn and allow his pessimistic view to rule and the five-film series be an inescapable circle that endlessly shallows itself.  The clinging to that by some fans is what amazes me.
 
Dehn was sloppy. No one is denying that. But on the whole most of his mistakes are inconsequential. And it is not clinging to anything but just accepting the reality of the story he was telling.
 
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Group: pota Message: 73268 From: haristas Date: 7/29/2014
Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
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Taylor did say they were away from earth for 2,000 years give or take a decade which infers the clocks were approximate and not exact.
 
 
 
That's a leap.  Taylor's dialogue is nothing more than him talking generally.  Why would there be a chronometer in something as advanced as an interstellar spacecraft if it wasn't intended to be accurate?  Is it just there to confuse the astronauts or give them a laugh?!!!  Come on.  Let us at least try to be logical.   
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Group: pota Message: 73269 From: haristas Date: 7/29/2014
Subject: Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues
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Events happen once, they don't repeat.
 
 
 
That's right, because going back in time is a scientific impossibility.  It never should have been introduced to the planet of the apes concept, but Fox wanted another movie after they'd just destroyed the world in BENEATH -- something that was a mistake.  Result: an illogical mess, and there's just no making sense of illogical messes -- but don't let that stop you!
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Group: pota Message: 73270 From: Jeff K. Date: 7/29/2014
Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
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  I assume the answer to my question is you like "Rise" and "Dawn" and don't consider the original sequels worthy of "Planet". So you want "Rise" and "Dawn" to lead to POTA68 and the other sequels don't exist (mutants,etc.)?
  I love the 1968 movie but I've always seen it as a saga, based on how I came into it. My first memory of POTA is a TV commercial (it must have been for "Battle"). I just remember loving the makeup (though I didn't know what "makeup" was). The first POTA story I've ever seen was the premiere of "Escape" on TV. When they take off their space helmets it brought me right back to that commercial. The makeup. I remember being engrossed in the movie but there was no way to check up on what the hell that was like today with the internet.
  The next thing was the TV show, a weekly dose of POTA that got me hooked. That Christmas my folks got me all the Mego figures (Series 1, I later learned) and the treehouse. Late '74 is just indelible to me and the source of my POTA fandom (plus the fact that no matter how old I get POTA is relevant to the way the world works).
  Really, POTA68 was one of the last of the movies I saw. By then I was a teen and being a sci-fi fan wasn't cool. Even then I didn't understand how the movie related to the world. But I knew it was one of the best POTA movies. It was about 5 years later I saw "Battle" for the first time, my last of the movies. I remember seeing the promo and being blown away (Really? A POTA movie I haven't seen?). Kind of ironic since the "Battle" commercial wuz probably the first POTA I ever saw (I will never know for sure). It was on late at night when it was still owned by CBS, which did all of the original broadcasts as well as the TV show (to this day I still connect CBS to POTA and in "Rise" when Caesar draws his window I can't help but think of the CBS eye logo).
   Where wuz I? So I love the original film but I have no trouble thinking of the movies as one thing. As I said before, it's a personal thing depending on where you came in.

Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 8:19 AM
Subject: Re: [pota] Re: Different questions and issues:

 

You can say that about any sequel. So what's the difference with "Rise" and "Dawn", which you say you can only accept as leading to POTA68?
 
 
 
There is no difference (if I'm understanding you right).  I accept RISE and DAWN as prequels to PLANET, but the launch date of Taylor's ship as indicated in PLANET is now a dated element.  You simply adjust your orientation.  It's easy.  You just go with what RISE proposes because this is now and the 1968 movie was then.
 
When I watch PLANET it's 1968 again and nothing else exists.

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Group: pota Message: 73271 From: haristas Date: 7/29/2014
Subject: On the subject of dates
.html
OK, I've been thinking about it and I've come to the view that dates in some things of fiction, even if it presents itself as science fiction, should be looked at in the same spirit as the old "Once Upon a Time...."
 
When I watch PLANET now I look at the dates on the time clock and the indication that the mission launched in 1972 as dated elements now quite quaint.  But thinking about it more it has to be admitted that even in 1968 it was a stretch to propose 1972 as such a launching date -- in the real world, we hadn't even landed on the moon yet.  In retrospect, the filmmakers never should have shown any dates, the clock could have been kept out of focus, and even Taylor's line "I leave the twentieth century..." could and possibly should have been replaced with just "I leave my time."  It wasn't even necessary to show the clock to indicate the relative earth time once they've crash landed.  You could have just shown Taylor's reacting to looking at it and left it there, as he indicates how much time has passed on earth in later dialogue.  Also, in retrospect, so precisely giving the earth time at the beginning of the film kind of tips the coming of the ultimate revelation of exactly where we are.  It could have all be left vague, except that we we're two thousand years in the future, and it still would have worked.
 
So, news -- PLANET is not perfect in this respect.  But I don't feel bad about it because my second favorite movie, the so-called greatest science fiction movie ever, 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY has also dated itself in the same way and now seems just as quaint in what it proposes would come into existence by the year 2001, and that's from a film made by the genius that was supposed to be Stanley Kubrick.
 
So, I think there's a need to lighten up about these dates and stop being so literal about what's fictional literature anyway.  
<.html
Group: pota Message: 73272 From: Jeff K. Date: 7/29/2014
Subject: Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues
.html
.html
  In defense of Dehn, let's remember this was almost 50 years ago. People groan at the mention of "Star Wars" but I believe "Empire Strikes Back" was the first time they said, hey! You can continue a story and get your facts straight. And look! People actually like this story so let's spend more, not less. Good or bad, "Empire" led to the summer movie season we have today.
  So back then POTA were kid films, sequels were rare and certainly it was harder to go back and see previous films (unless you were Roddy McDowall). Generally sequels were looked down on. It was the culture not to care too much.

Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 9:01 AM
Subject: [pota] Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues

 

---In pota@yahoogroups.com, <Haristas@...> wrote :
James may not like hearing this, but this is one of the reason's I have little respect for what Dehn did with the sequels, or rather what he didn't do -- pay close attention to what came before.  At the end of PLANET, Cornelius and Zira are being taken by Zaius back to the ape society to be tried for heresy, where he says they'll serve at least two years in prison.  But in BENEATH they are married and living as if nothing has happened, then in ESCAPE Cornelius says, "As an archeologist I had access to history scrolls which were kept secret from the masses."  On what planet did that happen?  There's no indication in PLANET that Cornelius knows anything he tells in ESCAPE, nor is it very likely that an accused heretic would be granted such access in the society we see in PLANET and BENEATH.
 
There actually is a line in the script for Beneath that covers this, its vague but Dehn didn't totally ignore the issue. https://pota.goatley.com/scripts/pota_beneath_final.pdf it's on page 34 of the pdf.
 
So let us acknowledge that Dehn was a clever, but sloppy writer, perhaps too rushed between films, but by all means let us let Dehn be Dehn and allow his pessimistic view to rule and the five-film series be an inescapable circle that endlessly shallows itself.  The clinging to that by some fans is what amazes me.
 
Dehn was sloppy. No one is denying that. But on the whole most of his mistakes are inconsequential. And it is not clinging to anything but just accepting the reality of the story he was telling.
 

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Group: pota Message: 73273 From: Jeff K. Date: 7/29/2014
Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
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  Logically, that was the first attempt at an interstellar trip (basically a suicide mission). They certainly wouldn't have the bugs worked out.

Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 9:03 AM
Subject: [pota] Re: Different questions and issues:

 

Taylor did say they were away from earth for 2,000 years give or take a decade which infers the clocks were approximate and not exact.
 
 
 
That's a leap.  Taylor's dialogue is nothing more than him talking generally.  Why would there be a chronometer in something as advanced as an interstellar spacecraft if it wasn't intended to be accurate?  Is it just there to confuse the astronauts or give them a laugh?!!!  Come on.  Let us at least try to be logical.   

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Group: pota Message: 73274 From: Jeff K. Date: 7/29/2014
Subject: Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues
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.html
  Do events repeat? WE DON'T KNOW. There's all kinds of theories. It's like the debate whether there's a God. WE DON'T KNOW. So I can accept all kinds of things for a story. Why? Because WE
>CENSORED!<.

Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 9:09 AM
Subject: [pota] Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues

 

Events happen once, they don't repeat.
 
 
 
That's right, because going back in time is a scientific impossibility.  It never should have been introduced to the planet of the apes concept, but Fox wanted another movie after they'd just destroyed the world in BENEATH -- something that was a mistake.  Result: an illogical mess, and there's just no making sense of illogical messes -- but don't let that stop you!

<.html
<.html
Group: pota Message: 73275 From: Jeff K. Date: 7/29/2014
Subject: Re: On the subject of dates
.html
.html
  I feel that way about the new movies. "Rise" includes a newspaper that puts the events in 2016 (you have to freeze frame it but it's there. "Dawn" starts with Obama. These movies will be dated before the next one comes out. If I could change one thing about these movies, that would be it.

Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 10:51 AM
Subject: [pota] On the subject of dates

 

OK, I've been thinking about it and I've come to the view that dates in some things of fiction, even if it presents itself as science fiction, should be looked at in the same spirit as the old "Once Upon a Time...."
 
When I watch PLANET now I look at the dates on the time clock and the indication that the mission launched in 1972 as dated elements now quite quaint.  But thinking about it more it has to be admitted that even in 1968 it was a stretch to propose 1972 as such a launching date -- in the real world, we hadn't even landed on the moon yet.  In retrospect, the filmmakers never should have shown any dates, the clock could have been kept out of focus, and even Taylor's line "I leave the twentieth century..." could and possibly should have been replaced with just "I leave my time."  It wasn't even necessary to show the clock to indicate the relative earth time once they've crash landed.  You could have just shown Taylor's reacting to looking at it and left it there, as he indicates how much time has passed on earth in later dialogue.  Also, in retrospect, so precisely giving the earth time at the beginning of the film kind of tips the coming of the ultimate revelation of exactly where we are.  It could have all be left vague, except that we we're two thousand years in the future, and it still would have worked.
 
So, news -- PLANET is not perfect in this respect.  But I don't feel bad about it because my second favorite movie, the so-called greatest science fiction movie ever, 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY has also dated itself in the same way and now seems just as quaint in what it proposes would come into existence by the year 2001, and that's from a film made by the genius that was supposed to be Stanley Kubrick.
 
So, I think there's a need to lighten up about these dates and stop being so literal about what's fictional literature anyway.  

<.html
<.html
Group: pota Message: 73276 From: Jeff K. Date: 7/29/2014
Subject: Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues
.html
.html
  I didn't see anything on pg. 34 that's different from the movie.

Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2014 9:01 AM
Subject: [pota] Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues

 

---In pota@yahoogroups.com, <Haristas@...> wrote :
James may not like hearing this, but this is one of the reason's I have little respect for what Dehn did with the sequels, or rather what he didn't do -- pay close attention to what came before.  At the end of PLANET, Cornelius and Zira are being taken by Zaius back to the ape society to be tried for heresy, where he says they'll serve at least two years in prison.  But in BENEATH they are married and living as if nothing has happened, then in ESCAPE Cornelius says, "As an archeologist I had access to history scrolls which were kept secret from the masses."  On what planet did that happen?  There's no indication in PLANET that Cornelius knows anything he tells in ESCAPE, nor is it very likely that an accused heretic would be granted such access in the society we see in PLANET and BENEATH.
 
There actually is a line in the script for Beneath that covers this, its vague but Dehn didn't totally ignore the issue. https://pota.goatley.com/scripts/pota_beneath_final.pdf it's on page 34 of the pdf.
 
So let us acknowledge that Dehn was a clever, but sloppy writer, perhaps too rushed between films, but by all means let us let Dehn be Dehn and allow his pessimistic view to rule and the five-film series be an inescapable circle that endlessly shallows itself.  The clinging to that by some fans is what amazes me.
 
Dehn was sloppy. No one is denying that. But on the whole most of his mistakes are inconsequential. And it is not clinging to anything but just accepting the reality of the story he was telling.
 

<.html
<.html
Group: pota Message: 73277 From: monkeymermaid65 Date: 7/29/2014
Subject: Re: On the subject of dates
.html
Perhaps Obama wasn't speaking as president, but maybe speaking on behalf of the president (who was in hiding 'cause he/she was suffering from simian flu). Or maybe he got a third term so he can work on his healthcare plan that was ravaged by the new pandemic.  (lol)
<.html
Group: pota Message: 73278 From: knightangel314 Date: 7/30/2014
Subject: Re: Beneath
.html
Attachments :
    .htmlYou have me curious. Why do you see "Beneath" as "ill concieved" and a "mess"?

    Mel

    Sent from XFINITY Connect Mobile App    <.html
    <.html
    Group: pota Message: 73279 From: mlccougar Date: 7/30/2014
    Subject: Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues
    .html
    .html.htmlI think Dr. Milo would disagree ;)

    In ESCAPE he says something like "And the world will be destroyed, just as we saw it..." So I take that to mean he thinks history will repeat itself and the events of BENEATH will happen again, "the second time around"...



    In a message dated 7/29/2014 10:52:49 AM Central Daylight Time, pota@yahoogroups.com writes:

    The only thing I don't really agree with is 'the second time around'. Events happen once, they don't repeat.


    <.html    <.html
    <.html
    Group: pota Message: 73280 From: William Burge Date: 7/30/2014
    Subject: dawn marquee
    .html
    .html
    dear group,  here is another dawn marquee from the davis theatre in chicago  . from william
    <.html
    <.html
    		  @@attachment@@
    Group: pota Message: 73281 From: jamesa1102 Date: 7/30/2014
    Subject: Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues
    .html
    Go and look again. There is a line about Zaius intervening in their heresay trial in exchange for their silence. That was cut from the film.


    ---In pota@yahoogroups.com, <veetus@...> wrote :

      I didn't see anything on pg. 34 that's different from the movie.

     
    <.html
    Group: pota Message: 73282 From: jamesa1102 Date: 7/30/2014
    Subject: Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues
    .html
    But he's not saying that the event repeat only that they witnessed an event that hasn't happened yet.


    ---In pota@yahoogroups.com, <mlccougar@...> wrote :

    I think Dr. Milo would disagree ;)

    In ESCAPE he says something like "And the world will be destroyed, just as we saw it..." So I take that to mean he thinks history will repeat itself and the events of BENEATH will happen again, "the second time around"...



    In a message dated 7/29/2014 10:52:49 AM Central Daylight Time, pota@yahoogroups.com writes:

    The only thing I don't really agree with is 'the second time around'. Events happen once, they don't repeat.


    <.html
    Group: pota Message: 73283 From: jamesa1102 Date: 7/30/2014
    Subject: Re: On the subject of dates
    .html
    It could be they had Taylor being from 1972 to make him a contemporary with the audience. Maybe they felt that he would be more relatable to the audience rather than if he was from decades or centuries in the future. It also allows Taylor to make direct commentary on the state of humanity at that time.

    ---In pota@yahoogroups.com, <Haristas@...> wrote :

    OK, I've been thinking about it and I've come to the view that dates in some things of fiction, even if it presents itself as science fiction, should be looked at in the same spirit as the old "Once Upon a Time...."
     
    When I watch PLANET now I look at the dates on the time clock and the indication that the mission launched in 1972 as dated elements now quite quaint.  But thinking about it more it has to be admitted that even in 1968 it was a stretch to propose 1972 as such a launching date -- in the real world, we hadn't even landed on the moon yet.  In retrospect, the filmmakers never should have shown any dates, the clock could have been kept out of focus, and even Taylor's line "I leave the twentieth century..." could and possibly should have been replaced with just "I leave my time."  It wasn't even necessary to show the clock to indicate the relative earth time once they've crash landed.  You could have just shown Taylor's reacting to looking at it and left it there, as he indicates how much time has passed on earth in later dialogue.  Also, in retrospect, so precisely giving the earth time at the beginning of the film kind of tips the coming of the ultimate revelation of exactly where we are.  It could have all be left vague, except that we we're two thousand years in the future, and it still would have worked.
     
    So, news -- PLANET is not perfect in this respect.  But I don't feel bad about it because my second favorite movie, the so-called greatest science fiction movie ever, 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY has also dated itself in the same way and now seems just as quaint in what it proposes would come into existence by the year 2001, and that's from a film made by the genius that was supposed to be Stanley Kubrick.
     
    So, I think there's a need to lighten up about these dates and stop being so literal about what's fictional literature anyway.  
    <.html
    Group: pota Message: 73284 From: haristas Date: 7/30/2014
    Subject: Re: Beneath
    .html
     
    You have me curious. Why do you see "Beneath" as "ill concieved" and a "mess"?

    Mel

     
    This guy explains as well as I could, if I could muster the energy to care.  Really tired of BENEATH.
     
     
     
     
    <.html
    Group: pota Message: 73285 From: Jeff K. Date: 7/30/2014
    Subject: Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues
    .html
    .html
      Pg. 30 (E-50).

    Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 3:40 AM
    Subject: Re: [pota] Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues

     

    Go and look again. There is a line about Zaius intervening in their heresay trial in exchange for their silence. That was cut from the film.



    ---In pota@yahoogroups.com, <veetus@...> wrote :

      I didn't see anything on pg. 34 that's different from the movie.

     

    <.html
    <.html
    Group: pota Message: 73286 From: haristas Date: 7/30/2014
    Subject: Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues
    .html
    So, this is in the scene where Dr. Zaius visits the home of Zira and Cornelius.
     
    ZAIUS:  Ursus now has the 'incident' he needs to go on a rampage of conquest.
     
    CORNELIUS:  But that is appalling!  When Zira and I first unlocked the secrets of the Forbidden Zone, you intervened at our trial for heresy.
     
    ZAIUS:  I know.
     
    CORNELIUS:  The price we paid for our freedom was the vow to you to never disclose our discovery that Man evolved from the apes...
     
    ZIRA'S VOICE: (o.s.)  ...but to remain silent while this bully, Ursus, is permitted to destroy everything in his path, is no longer possible.
     
    ZAIUS:  You want to stand trial once more for heresy?  No, my children, this time I may not be here to plead for clemency.
     
    Well, that was nice but for me it only reinforces my belief that Dehn really didn't understand the original movie.  I can't imagine the Dr. Zaius of PLANET calling Zira and Cornelius "my children" since he's an Orangutan and "looks down his nose at Chimpanzees."  And since he was instrumental in maneuvering Zira and Cornelius to expose themselves before the ad hoc tribunal ("Let them talk, Mr. President.  Let them talk."), why would he later plead for their clemency?  Zaius had to let Taylor go because they gave him a gun.  I would contend that once they returned to civilization, Zaius would be in no mood to grant them clemency.  And from what's said in the cave scene in PLANET, did Cornelius think he was discovering that Man evolved from apes?  I thought Zira previously told Taylor that Cornelius' theory was that "the ape evolved from a lower order of primate, possibly Man."
     
    No, for me it's irrefutable that Dehn was a poor study of what he was writing a sequel to.  One of the many reasons I call BENEATH ill-conceived, and one of the many reasons why watching or even reading the script for BENEATH is an exercise in frustration and annoyance.  I just get very little pleasure from it and the problem continues with the further sequels.  When I was a kid and these movies were new, these flaws weren't noticed, but now they really stick out, and other than as nostalgia, I don't enjoy the sequels. 
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    -----Original Message-----
    From: 'Jeff K.' veetus@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com>
    To: pota <pota@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Wed, Jul 30, 2014 10:25 am
    Subject: Re: [pota] Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues

     
      Pg. 30 (E-50).

    Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 3:40 AM
    Subject: Re: [pota] Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues

     
    Go and look again. There is a line about Zaius intervening in their heresay trial in exchange for their silence. That was cut from the film.


    ---In pota@yahoogroups.com, <veetus@...> wrote :

      I didn't see anything on pg. 34 that's different from the movie.

     
    <.html
    Group: pota Message: 73287 From: Dario Sciola Date: 7/30/2014
    Subject: Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues
    .html
    I agree that calling them his 'children' was out of character for Zaius, and probably one of the reasons this scene was excised.

    But while Zaius was butting heads with Cornelius and Zira in Planet, it was all about burying (figuratively) Taylor and the knowledge he represented. When, at the end of Planet, Taylor is off on his merry way to the Forbidden Zone and Zaius has the cave blown up, he really has no reason to hate Zira and Cornelius anymore. I don't think it was a personal clash with C & Z, but merely a clash when their actions impeded his ultimate goal.

    As evil as he was, all his evil actions were pragmatic ones and never personal. He was highly intelligent and not stupid.

    With the matter settled after returning from the caves why would he even bother to continue to persecute C & Z? He had nothing to gain at that point. I find it quite plausible that the matter ended there and then.

    Until Beneath of course... ;)

    Dario


    On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 11:56 AM, Haristas@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

    So, this is in the scene where Dr. Zaius visits the home of Zira and Cornelius.
    ZAIUS: Ursus now has the 'incident' he needs to go on a rampage of conquest.
    CORNELIUS: But that is appalling! When Zira and I first unlocked the secrets of the Forbidden Zone, you intervened at our trial for heresy.
    ZAIUS: I know.
    CORNELIUS: The price we paid for our freedom was the vow to you to never disclose our discovery that Man evolved from the apes...
    ZIRA'S VOICE: (o.s.) ...but to remain silent while this bully, Ursus, is permitted to destroy everything in his path, is no longer possible.
    ZAIUS: You want to stand trial once more for heresy? No, my children, this time I may not be here to plead for clemency.
    Well, that was nice but for me it only reinforces my belief that Dehn really didn't understand the original movie. I can't imagine the Dr. Zaius of PLANET calling Zira and Cornelius "my children" since he's an Orangutan and "looks down his nose at Chimpanzees." And since he was instrumental in maneuvering Zira and Cornelius to expose themselves before the ad hoc tribunal ("Let them talk, Mr. President. Let them talk."), why would he later plead for their clemency? Zaius had to let Taylor go because they gave him a gun. I would contend that once they returned to civilization, Zaius would be in no mood to grant them clemency. And from what's said in the cave scene in PLANET, did Cornelius think he was discovering that Man evolved from apes? I thought Zira previously told Taylor that Cornelius' theory was that "the ape evolved from a lower order of primate, possibly Man."
    No, for me it's irrefutable that Dehn was a poor study of what he was writing a sequel to. One of the many reasons I call BENEATH ill-conceived, and one of the many reasons why watching or even reading the script for BENEATH is an exercise in frustration and annoyance. I just get very little pleasure from it and the problem continues with the further sequels. When I was a kid and these movies were new, these flaws weren't noticed, but now they really stick out, and other than as nostalgia, I don't enjoy the sequels.
    -----Original Message-----
    From: 'Jeff K.' veetus@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com>
    To: pota <pota@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Wed, Jul 30, 2014 10:25 am
    Subject: Re: [pota] Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues

    Pg. 30 (E-50).

    Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 3:40 AM
    Subject: Re: [pota] Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues

    Go and look again. There is a line about Zaius intervening in their heresay trial in exchange for their silence. That was cut from the film.


    ---In pota@yahoogroups.com, <veetus@...> wrote :

    I didn't see anything on pg. 34 that's different from the movie.


    <.html
    Group: pota Message: 73288 From: Jeff K. Date: 7/30/2014
    Subject: Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues
    .html
    .html
      I'm not saying that "Beneath" is a good script or a proper sequel to "Planet". But just looking at "Beneath" as it exists (ignore it if you want but it will always be the sequel long after we're gone), the gorillas seem to be getting out of hand and heading toward war (and taking some of the orangs' precious power). So the orangs and the chimps might stick together to counterbalance. The gorillas could have a military coup and take over the government.
     
     By calling the chimps "my children" he is looking down his nose at them. Did he say that in "Beneath"? I know he did in the cartoon.

    Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 8:56 AM
    Subject: [pota] Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues

     

    So, this is in the scene where Dr. Zaius visits the home of Zira and Cornelius.
     
    ZAIUS:  Ursus now has the 'incident' he needs to go on a rampage of conquest.
     
    CORNELIUS:  But that is appalling!  When Zira and I first unlocked the secrets of the Forbidden Zone, you intervened at our trial for heresy.
     
    ZAIUS:  I know.
     
    CORNELIUS:  The price we paid for our freedom was the vow to you to never disclose our discovery that Man evolved from the apes...
     
    ZIRA'S VOICE: (o.s.)  ...but to remain silent while this bully, Ursus, is permitted to destroy everything in his path, is no longer possible.
     
    ZAIUS:  You want to stand trial once more for heresy?  No, my children, this time I may not be here to plead for clemency.
     
    Well, that was nice but for me it only reinforces my belief that Dehn really didn't understand the original movie.  I can't imagine the Dr. Zaius of PLANET calling Zira and Cornelius "my children" since he's an Orangutan and "looks down his nose at Chimpanzees."  And since he was instrumental in maneuvering Zira and Cornelius to expose themselves before the ad hoc tribunal ("Let them talk, Mr. President.  Let them talk."), why would he later plead for their clemency?  Zaius had to let Taylor go because they gave him a gun.  I would contend that once they returned to civilization, Zaius would be in no mood to grant them clemency.  And from what's said in the cave scene in PLANET, did Cornelius think he was discovering that Man evolved from apes?  I thought Zira previously told Taylor that Cornelius' theory was that "the ape evolved from a lower order of primate, possibly Man."
     
    No, for me it's irrefutable that Dehn was a poor study of what he was writing a sequel to.  One of the many reasons I call BENEATH ill-conceived, and one of the many reasons why watching or even reading the script for BENEATH is an exercise in frustration and annoyance.  I just get very little pleasure from it and the problem continues with the further sequels.  When I was a kid and these movies were new, these flaws weren't noticed, but now they really stick out, and other than as nostalgia, I don't enjoy the sequels. 
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    -----Original Message-----
    From: 'Jeff K.' veetus@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com>
    To: pota <pota@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Wed, Jul 30, 2014 10:25 am
    Subject: Re: [pota] Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues

     
      Pg. 30 (E-50).

    Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 3:40 AM
    Subject: Re: [pota] Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues

     
    Go and look again. There is a line about Zaius intervening in their heresay trial in exchange for their silence. That was cut from the film.


    ---In pota@yahoogroups.com, <veetus@...> wrote :

      I didn't see anything on pg. 34 that's different from the movie.

     

    <.html
    <.html
    Group: pota Message: 73289 From: Stuart Drucker Date: 7/30/2014
    Subject: Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues
    .html
    .html

    I always liked the script version for Beneath where the gorillas and the mutants were destroyed by the Alpha Omega bomb nuking the underground city, and the chimps leading the rehabilitation of humanity under a kindler, gentler government. And the Taylor/Brent duo destroying the rescue ship to prevent its use (and forcing them to stay to make Earth better).

     

    It also had the dystopian future foreshadowed…the dove getting shot down by a mutated gorilla emerging from the Forbidden Zone…

     

    From: pota@yahoogroups.com [pota@yahoogroups.com]
    Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 12:48 PM
    To: pota@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [pota] Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues

     

     

      I'm not saying that "Beneath" is a good script or a proper sequel to "Planet". But just looking at "Beneath" as it exists (ignore it if you want but it will always be the sequel long after we're gone), the gorillas seem to be getting out of hand and heading toward war (and taking some of the orangs' precious power). So the orangs and the chimps might stick together to counterbalance. The gorillas could have a military coup and take over the government.

     

     By calling the chimps "my children" he is looking down his nose at them. Did he say that in "Beneath"? I know he did in the cartoon.

     

    Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 8:56 AM

    Subject: [pota] Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues

     

     

    So, this is in the scene where Dr. Zaius visits the home of Zira and Cornelius.

     

    ZAIUS:  Ursus now has the 'incident' he needs to go on a rampage of conquest.

     

    CORNELIUS:  But that is appalling!  When Zira and I first unlocked the secrets of the Forbidden Zone, you intervened at our trial for heresy.

     

    ZAIUS:  I know.

     

    CORNELIUS:  The price we paid for our freedom was the vow to you to never disclose our discovery that Man evolved from the apes...

     

    ZIRA'S VOICE: (o.s.)  ...but to remain silent while this bully, Ursus, is permitted to destroy everything in his path, is no longer possible.

     

    ZAIUS:  You want to stand trial once more for heresy?  No, my children, this time I may not be here to plead for clemency.

     

    Well, that was nice but for me it only reinforces my belief that Dehn really didn't understand the original movie.  I can't imagine the Dr. Zaius of PLANET calling Zira and Cornelius "my children" since he's an Orangutan and "looks down his nose at Chimpanzees."  And since he was instrumental in maneuvering Zira and Cornelius to expose themselves before the ad hoc tribunal ("Let them talk, Mr. President.  Let them talk."), why would he later plead for their clemency?  Zaius had to let Taylor go because they gave him a gun.  I would contend that once they returned to civilization, Zaius would be in no mood to grant them clemency.  And from what's said in the cave scene in PLANET, did Cornelius think he was discovering that Man evolved from apes?  I thought Zira previously told Taylor that Cornelius' theory was that "the ape evolved from a lower order of primate, possibly Man."

     

    No, for me it's irrefutable that Dehn was a poor study of what he was writing a sequel to.  One of the many reasons I call BENEATH ill-conceived, and one of the many reasons why watching or even reading the script for BENEATH is an exercise in frustration and annoyance.  I just get very little pleasure from it and the problem continues with the further sequels.  When I was a kid and these movies were new, these flaws weren't noticed, but now they really stick out, and other than as nostalgia, I don't enjoy the sequels. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: 'Jeff K.' veetus@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com>
    To: pota <pota@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Wed, Jul 30, 2014 10:25 am
    Subject: Re: [pota] Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues

     

      Pg. 30 (E-50).

     

    Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 3:40 AM

    Subject: Re: [pota] Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues

     

     

    Go and look again. There is a line about Zaius intervening in their heresay trial in exchange for their silence. That was cut from the film.



    ---In pota@yahoogroups.com, <veetus@...> wrote :

      I didn't see anything on pg. 34 that's different from the movie.


     

    <.html
    <.html
    Group: pota Message: 73290 From: William Burge Date: 7/30/2014
    Subject: planet photos
    .html
    .html
    dear group,  here are some neat planet photos enjoy from william
    <.html
    <.html
    		  @@attachment@@
    Group: pota Message: 73291 From: haristas Date: 7/30/2014
    Subject: Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues
    .html
    They fortunately cut the "my children" out of the dialogue. 
     
    I'm glad you mentioned the gorillas because that's another area I have a problem with in BENEATH.  In the first movie, the orangutans are the leaders of the society, gorillas are their subordinates, the police, hunters and laborers -- not soldiers.  There was no gorilla army in PLANET because there was no need for an army.  The Dr. Zaius of PLANET wouldn't tolerate a bonehead like General Ursus.  
     
     
    -----Original Message-----
    From: 'Jeff K.' veetus@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com>
    To: pota <pota@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Wed, Jul 30, 2014 1:48 pm
    Subject: Re: [pota] Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues

     
      I'm not saying that "Beneath" is a good script or a proper sequel to "Planet". But just looking at "Beneath" as it exists (ignore it if you want but it will always be the sequel long after we're gone), the gorillas seem to be getting out of hand and heading toward war (and taking some of the orangs' precious power). So the orangs and the chimps might stick together to counterbalance. The gorillas could have a military coup and take over the government.
     
     By calling the chimps "my children" he is looking down his nose at them. Did he say that in "Beneath"? I know he did in the cartoon.

    Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 8:56 AM
    Subject: [pota] Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues

     
    So, this is in the scene where Dr. Zaius visits the home of Zira and Cornelius.
     
    ZAIUS:  Ursus now has the 'incident' he needs to go on a rampage of conquest.
     
    CORNELIUS:  But that is appalling!  When Zira and I first unlocked the secrets of the Forbidden Zone, you intervened at our trial for heresy.
     
    ZAIUS:  I know.
     
    CORNELIUS:  The price we paid for our freedom was the vow to you to never disclose our discovery that Man evolved from the apes...
     
    ZIRA'S VOICE: (o.s.)  ...but to remain silent while this bully, Ursus, is permitted to destroy everything in his path, is no longer possible.
     
    ZAIUS:  You want to stand trial once more for heresy?  No, my children, this time I may not be here to plead for clemency.
     
    Well, that was nice but for me it only reinforces my belief that Dehn really didn't understand the original movie.  I can't imagine the Dr. Zaius of PLANET calling Zira and Cornelius "my children" since he's an Orangutan and "looks down his nose at Chimpanzees."  And since he was instrumental in maneuvering Zira and Cornelius to expose themselves before the ad hoc tribunal ("Let them talk, Mr. President.  Let them talk."), why would he later plead for their clemency?  Zaius had to let Taylor go because they gave him a gun.  I would contend that once they returned to civilization, Zaius would be in no mood to grant them clemency.  And from what's said in the cave scene in PLANET, did Cornelius think he was discovering that Man evolved from apes?  I thought Zira previously told Taylor that Cornelius' theory was that "the ape evolved from a lower order of primate, possibly Man."
     
    No, for me it's irrefutable that Dehn was a poor study of what he was writing a sequel to.  One of the many reasons I call BENEATH ill-conceived, and one of the many reasons why watching or even reading the script for BENEATH is an exercise in frustration and annoyance.  I just get very little pleasure from it and the problem continues with the further sequels.  When I was a kid and these movies were new, these flaws weren't noticed, but now they really stick out, and other than as nostalgia, I don't enjoy the sequels. 
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    -----Original Message-----
    From: 'Jeff K.' veetus@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com>
    To: pota <pota@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Wed, Jul 30, 2014 10:25 am
    Subject: Re: [pota] Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues

     
      Pg. 30 (E-50).

    Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 3:40 AM
    Subject: Re: [pota] Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues

     
    Go and look again. There is a line about Zaius intervening in their heresay trial in exchange for their silence. That was cut from the film.


    ---In pota@yahoogroups.com, <veetus@...> wrote :

      I didn't see anything on pg. 34 that's different from the movie.

     
    <.html
    Group: pota Message: 73292 From: haristas Date: 7/30/2014
    Subject: Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues
    .html
    With the matter settled after returning from the caves why would he even bother to continue to persecute C & Z?
     
    Because keeping any knowledge of Man's ancient supremacy suppressed was entirely what motivated Zaius' actions and attitudes in PLANET.  How could he trust that C & Z would never tell anything or continue to try and make new discoveries? 
     
    I wouldn't.
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Dario Sciola dario.sciola@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com>
    To: POTA <pota@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Wed, Jul 30, 2014 1:47 pm
    Subject: Re: [pota] Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues

     
    I agree that calling them his 'children' was out of character for Zaius, and probably one of the reasons this scene was excised.

    But while Zaius was butting heads with Cornelius and Zira in Planet, it was all about burying (figuratively) Taylor and the knowledge he represented. When, at the end of Planet, Taylor is off on his merry way to the Forbidden Zone and Zaius has the cave blown up, he really has no reason to hate Zira and Cornelius anymore. I don't think it was a personal clash with C & Z, but merely a clash when their actions impeded his ultimate goal.

    As evil as he was, all his evil actions were pragmatic ones and never personal. He was highly intelligent and not stupid.

    With the matter settled after returning from the caves why would he even bother to continue to persecute C & Z? He had nothing to gain at that point. I find it quite plausible that the matter ended there and then.

    Until Beneath of course... ;)

    Dario


    On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 11:56 AM, Haristas@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
     
    So, this is in the scene where Dr. Zaius visits the home of Zira and Cornelius.
     
    ZAIUS:  Ursus now has the 'incident' he needs to go on a rampage of conquest.
     
    CORNELIUS:  But that is appalling!  When Zira and I first unlocked the secrets of the Forbidden Zone, you intervened at our trial for heresy.
     
    ZAIUS:  I know.
     
    CORNELIUS:  The price we paid for our freedom was the vow to you to never disclose our discovery that Man evolved from the apes...
     
    ZIRA'S VOICE: (o.s.)  ...but to remain silent while this bully, Ursus, is permitted to destroy everything in his path, is no longer possible.
     
    ZAIUS:  You want to stand trial once more for heresy?  No, my children, this time I may not be here to plead for clemency.
     
    Well, that was nice but for me it only reinforces my belief that Dehn really didn't understand the original movie.  I can't imagine the Dr. Zaius of PLANET calling Zira and Cornelius "my children" since he's an Orangutan and "looks down his nose at Chimpanzees."  And since he was instrumental in maneuvering Zira and Cornelius to expose themselves before the ad hoc tribunal ("Let them talk, Mr. President.  Let them talk."), why would he later plead for their clemency?  Zaius had to let Taylor go because they gave him a gun.  I would contend that once they returned to civilization, Zaius would be in no mood to grant them clemency.  And from what's said in the cave scene in PLANET, did Cornelius think he was discovering that Man evolved from apes?  I thought Zira previously told Taylor that Cornelius' theory was that "the ape evolved from a lower order of primate, possibly Man."
     
    No, for me it's irrefutable that Dehn was a poor study of what he was writing a sequel to.  One of the many reasons I call BENEATH ill-conceived, and one of the many reasons why watching or even reading the script for BENEATH is an exercise in frustration and annoyance.  I just get very little pleasure from it and the problem continues with the further sequels.  When I was a kid and these movies were new, these flaws weren't noticed, but now they really stick out, and other than as nostalgia, I don't enjoy the sequels. 
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
    -----Original Message-----
    From: 'Jeff K.' veetus@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com>
    To: pota <pota@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Wed, Jul 30, 2014 10:25 am
    Subject: Re: [pota] Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues

     
      Pg. 30 (E-50).

    Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 3:40 AM
    Subject: Re: [pota] Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues

     
    Go and look again. There is a line about Zaius intervening in their heresay trial in exchange for their silence. That was cut from the film.


    ---In pota@yahoogroups.com, <veetus@...> wrote :

      I didn't see anything on pg. 34 that's different from the movie.

     

    <.html
    Group: pota Message: 73293 From: Dr. Xs Creatures Date: 7/30/2014
    Subject: Re: next "Dawn" NECA figures
    .html
    Did you see the movie? They're naked. LOL


    My Entertainment Website: http://www.drxcreatures.com
    My Official Website: http://www.cgonzales.net


    --------------------------------------------
    On Thu, 7/24/14, Haristas@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

    Subject: [pota] Re: next "Dawn" NECA figures
    To: pota@yahoogroups.com
    Date: Thursday, July 24, 2014, 11:11 AM













    The first wave must be selling well.
    Still, I have no interest in naked apes. Plan to get those
    classic figures though.









    -----Original Message-----

    From: 'Jeff K.' veetus@... [pota]
    <pota@yahoogroups.com>

    To: pota <pota@yahoogroups.com>; PotaDG
    <PotaDG@yahoogroups.com>

    Sent: Thu, Jul 24, 2014 1:07 pm

    Subject: [pota] next "Dawn" NECA figures










































    Looks like the next wave of
    "Dawn" figures will
    be Luca (a gorilla), and new Caesar and Koba sculpts (now
    they go and get
    GUNS!!!).


    Expected to ape-rrive Nov.
    30ish.





    http://www.lindseystoyroom.com/dawn-of-the-planet-of-the-apes-7-figures-series-2-set-of-3/














































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    <.html
    Group: pota Message: 73294 From: Dario Sciola Date: 7/30/2014
    Subject: Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues
    .html

    Unless he could have them killed (and I don't think even he would go that far), he could keep them in line easier by being good to them rather than having them thrown in jail. It makes more sense that he would threaten them to never tell anyone about what the saw and heard in the cave at the risk of him getting them thrown in jail.


    The old adage "Keep your friends close andyour enemies closer"
    "The Art of War"/Sun-tzu and "The Godfather" ;)

    Dario

    On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 2:20 PM, Haristas@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

    With the matter settled after returning from the caves why would he even bother to continue to persecute C & Z?
    Because keeping any knowledge of Man's ancient supremacy suppressed was entirely what motivated Zaius' actions and attitudes in PLANET. How could he trust that C & Z would never tell anything or continue to try and make new discoveries?
    I wouldn't.
    -----Original Message-----
    From: Dario Sciola dario.sciola@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com>
    To: POTA <pota@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Wed, Jul 30, 2014 1:47 pm
    Subject: Re: [pota] Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues

    I agree that calling them his 'children' was out of character for Zaius, and probably one of the reasons this scene was excised.

    But while Zaius was butting heads with Cornelius and Zira in Planet, it was all about burying (figuratively) Taylor and the knowledge he represented. When, at the end of Planet, Taylor is off on his merry way to the Forbidden Zone and Zaius has the cave blown up, he really has no reason to hate Zira and Cornelius anymore. I don't think it was a personal clash with C & Z, but merely a clash when their actions impeded his ultimate goal.

    As evil as he was, all his evil actions were pragmatic ones and never personal. He was highly intelligent and not stupid.

    With the matter settled after returning from the caves why would he even bother to continue to persecute C & Z? He had nothing to gain at that point. I find it quite plausible that the matter ended there and then.

    Until Beneath of course... ;)

    Dario


    On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 11:56 AM, Haristas@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
    So, this is in the scene where Dr. Zaius visits the home of Zira and Cornelius.
    ZAIUS: Ursus now has the 'incident' he needs to go on a rampage of conquest.
    CORNELIUS: But that is appalling! When Zira and I first unlocked the secrets of the Forbidden Zone, you intervened at our trial for heresy.
    ZAIUS: I know.
    CORNELIUS: The price we paid for our freedom was the vow to you to never disclose our discovery that Man evolved from the apes...
    ZIRA'S VOICE: (o.s.) ...but to remain silent while this bully, Ursus, is permitted to destroy everything in his path, is no longer possible.
    ZAIUS: You want to stand trial once more for heresy? No, my children, this time I may not be here to plead for clemency.
    Well, that was nice but for me it only reinforces my belief that Dehn really didn't understand the original movie. I can't imagine the Dr. Zaius of PLANET calling Zira and Cornelius "my children" since he's an Orangutan and "looks down his nose at Chimpanzees." And since he was instrumental in maneuvering Zira and Cornelius to expose themselves before the ad hoc tribunal ("Let them talk, Mr. President. Let them talk."), why would he later plead for their clemency? Zaius had to let Taylor go because they gave him a gun. I would contend that once they returned to civilization, Zaius would be in no mood to grant them clemency. And from what's said in the cave scene in PLANET, did Cornelius think he was discovering that Man evolved from apes? I thought Zira previously told Taylor that Cornelius' theory was that "the ape evolved from a lower order of primate, possibly Man."
    No, for me it's irrefutable that Dehn was a poor study of what he was writing a sequel to. One of the many reasons I call BENEATH ill-conceived, and one of the many reasons why watching or even reading the script for BENEATH is an exercise in frustration and annoyance. I just get very little pleasure from it and the problem continues with the further sequels. When I was a kid and these movies were new, these flaws weren't noticed, but now they really stick out, and other than as nostalgia, I don't enjoy the sequels.
    -----Original Message-----
    From: 'Jeff K.' veetus@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com>
    To: pota <pota@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Wed, Jul 30, 2014 10:25 am
    Subject: Re: [pota] Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues

    Pg. 30 (E-50).

    Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2014 3:40 AM
    Subject: Re: [pota] Re: Prequel or Reboot debate continues

    Go and look again. There is a line about Zaius intervening in their heresay trial in exchange for their silence. That was cut from the film.


    ---In pota@yahoogroups.com, <veetus@...> wrote :

    I didn't see anything on pg. 34 that's different from the movie.


    <.html
    Group: pota Message: 73295 From: Jeff K. Date: 7/30/2014
    Subject: In your NECA the woods?
    .html
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      Looks like NECA's Classic Apes Series 1 is starting to show up at Toyz 'R Us.
     
      Here's a gorilla riding Thade's horse:
     
     
      Go 'rillas!
    <.html
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    Group: pota Message: 73296 From: zasco1957 Date: 7/30/2014
    Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
    .html
    Attachments :
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      Thanks, my friends.  I appreciate all of your answers, they all are very good food for thought. 
       
      Zach    
       
       
       
       
      -------Original Message-------
       
      Date: 07/29/14 10:52:28
      To: pota@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [pota] Different questions and issues:
       
       

      ---In pota@yahoogroups.com, <monkeymermaid65@...> wrote :

      It's impossible to make sense out of all the conflicting time and dates given in the films and adaptations. I say both Taylor's and Brent's spaceships had their clocks messed up, and the actual date lies somewhere in between  3955 and 3978.
       
      Taylor did say they were away from earth for 2,000 years give or take a decade which infers the clocks were approximate and not exact.

       
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      Group: pota Message: 73297 From: zasco1957 Date: 7/30/2014
      Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
      .html
      Attachments :
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        You're welcome, sir.  I love the Redux.
         
        Zach   
         
         
         
         
        -------Original Message-------
         
        Date: 07/29/14 10:37:42
        To: pota@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [pota] Re: Different questions and issues:
         
         

        ---In pota@yahoogroups.com, <Zasco1957@...> wrote :

        My fellow Apes,
         
        Maybe you can answer these different questions and concerns for me regarding the series.
         
           1.  What year are we supposed to go by regarding the first three movies?  Taylor's ship reads 11-25-3978; Brent mentions to Skipper that the year was 3955, as did Zira in Escape...but in Battle, she mentions 3950.  (I have the Malibu Graphics' editions of the first three movies in my collection, and not only does Taylor's ship show the year 3975 as the year, but a Mr. Jim Korkis has written some notes at the beginning of the Escape adaptation...and has mistakenly mentioned the year as 3995!)
         
        I always tend to go with 3978 since that is what is stated in the original. Bu t that is a personal choice. Go with whatever works for you.
         
        3.  I've also heard that. one day, it's possible FOX may finally include the deleted footage on Escape regarding Drs. Zira, Cornelius and Milo in the spaceship orbiting the Earth as the Bomb went off...the subsequent explosion, shock wave and the time warp which sent them back to our time.  However, Mr. Aquila has done a fantastic job already putting some things together for a "Escape Pre-Title Redux"...I've seen it and have enjoyed it thoroughly.
         
        Thanks. The Redux was the work of several helpful and talented people.

         
        <.html
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        Group: pota Message: 73298 From: zasco1957 Date: 7/30/2014
        Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
        .html
        Attachments :
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          "Strange atmospheric phenomenon"?  "Odd weather"? 
           
          The Mendez Dynasty stories have stated that the mutants indeed "placed a few simple lightning and boulder illusions" in front of Taylor, Dodge and Landon as they traversed the desert not far from what was NYC, keeping them from getting too close...they were able to continue on to Ape City. 
           
          Zach   
           
           
           
           
          -------Original Message-------
           
          Date: 07/29/14 08:42:30
          To: pota@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [pota] Re: Different questions and issues:
           
           

          **** What Jeff says does make sense as far as the date thing, but for me personally I go with the 3978 date... It's the date in the original film, and the original film is where it all sprang from... In my eyes, PLANET is "original canon" and it really should have been paid closer attention to... Along these lines, I don't like when people try to alter things from PLANET... One example: I've heard of people saying that when Zaius tells Taylor, "All my life I've awaited your coming and dreaded it, like death itself", they're inferring that Zaius knew Taylor was coming, which is bull#@*%... If PLANET was a stand-alone film, nobody would have said that, because all he meant by it was he dreaded the coming of an intelligent human: He did not "know" Taylor was coming... I've also heard people say that the odd weather d uring Taylor's Forbidden Zone trek in PLANET was caused by the mutants from BENEATH... Now, I can see people saying that from a BENEATH point of view, but in PLANET, (especially had it been a stand-alone film), it's just strange atmospheric phenomenon and the mutants had nothing to do with it... And mutants in the sequel or not, in PLANET it's still just odd weather, not an illusion... ****
           
           
           
          I'm glad you wrote that because now I don't have to.

           
          <.html
          <.html
          Group: pota Message: 73299 From: pota@yahoogroups.com Date: 7/30/2014
          Subject: Don Murray's & France Nuyen's Birthdays, 7/31/2014, 12:00 am
          .html
          .html
          Reminder from:   pota Yahoo Group
           
          Title:   Don Murray's & France Nuyen's Birthdays
           
          Date:   Thursday July 31, 2014
          Time:   12:00 am - 12:00 am (GMT-05.00) Eastern Time (US & Canada)
           
          <.html
          <.html
          Group: pota Message: 73300 From: William Burge Date: 7/31/2014
          Subject: ape goodies
          .html
          .html
          dear group,  here are some neat lou wagner make up phot with john chambers from william
          <.html
          <.html
          		  @@attachment@@
          Group: pota Message: 73301 From: pota@yahoogroups.com Date: 7/31/2014
          Subject: J. Lee Thompson was born in 1914, 8/1/2014, 12:00 am
          .html
          .html
          Reminder from:   pota Yahoo Group
           
          Title:   J. Lee Thompson was born in 1914
           
          Date:   Friday August 1, 2014
          Time:   12:00 am - 12:00 am (GMT-05.00) Eastern Time (US & Canada)
           
          <.html
          <.html
          Group: pota Message: 73302 From: georgetaylor68 Date: 8/1/2014
          Subject: Re: Where APES could go
          .html
          Thanks for having shared your ideas regarding what additional prequels could entail.  

          Whatever happens with the Apes franchise, I hope it doesn't wear out its welcome.  Sometimes a franchise is judged by its latest release and Poltergeist's very disappointing sequel comes to mind.   Similarly, during the 1980's, the Apes franchise was belittled by some because of some of the later installments, etc.  Charlton Heston consequently distanced himself from the franchise but kept getting asked to return to it.   :-)

          Anyhow the original Total Recall did well and lives on favorably in the memories of many.   So does the movie Stargate.   Neither spawned sequels or prequels although Total Recall spawned a revisitation (that was hardly like the original) while Stargate spawned various television series.   Those movies serve as examples of  bowing out gracefully & leaving much for the imagination, or perhaps of wearing out one's welcome (depending upon one's point of view).  

          Cheers from Houston.   :-)
              




          <.html
          Group: pota Message: 73303 From: jamesa1102 Date: 8/1/2014
          Subject: Hasslein Institute of Temporal Physics
          .html

          TGIF! A new installment of the HASSLEIN INSTITUTE OF TEMPORAL PHYSICS now available. Thanks to all who contributed.

           

          To read the HASSLEIN INSTITUTE click the banner on the group's home page or this link: http://www.potamediaarchive.com/HI.htm.

           

          Have a great weekend everyone!

           

          Visit all the Group's special features including:

          <.html
          Group: pota Message: 73304 From: William Burge Date: 8/1/2014
          Subject: ape ticket stubs
          .html
          .html
          dear group,  here are some different ape ticket stubs enjoy from william
          <.html
          <.html
          		  @@attachment@@
          Group: pota Message: 73305 From: Jeff K. Date: 8/1/2014
          Subject: NECA Classic Apes review
          .html
          .html
            Do the new Cornelius, Zaius and Gorilla have what it takes?
           
          <.html
          <.html
          Group: pota Message: 73306 From: scottgeorge40 Date: 8/1/2014
          Subject: Re: Where APES could go
          .html

          Just one question: when can I get this series on Blu-Ray!

           

          I like your ideas.  I think individually they could be very good films, and together, a great series.  Very creative use of source material that isn't mimicking* what's been done before, nor attempting to adhere to every bit of trivial plot points mentioned in dialogue.  At the same time, it wouldn't alienate anyone who insists that all Ape material must fit into the same continuity. 

           

           

          * Because I resisted to use the word "ape" there, I feel justified in saying: Stop monkeying around and write those scripts!

           

          Scott

           

           


          <.html
          Group: pota Message: 73307 From: Jeff K. Date: 8/1/2014
          Subject: Matt Reeves and Fox tie the knot
          .html
          .html
            The director of "Dawn of the POTA" has signed a new 3-year production deal with Fox. That means Fox will be his "home, family, future" for a while longer. Obviously he's the Lawgiver for the next "Apes" adventure. That's scheduled for 2016 though Reeves says he'll see about getting more time. The deal probably also includes smaller movies Reeves may want to produce or whatever. But he's not going anywhere.
           
          <.html
          <.html
          Group: pota Message: 73308 From: Jeff K. Date: 8/1/2014
          Subject: ape overload in 2016?
          .html
          .html
            Looks like all the big ape properties will come out swinging in 2016. Of course, there's POTA 3, scheduled for July 29. That month starts with a new live-action "Tarzan" (the Lord of the Apes hits on July 1st). At Comic-Con Warners announced a November release for King Kong's "Skull Island". And Warners has just announced "Jungle Book: Origins" (directed by Andy Serkis) for October 2016. Who's left, Lancelot Link?
           
          <.html
          <.html
          Group: pota Message: 73309 From: James Date: 8/2/2014
          Subject: FW: Google Alert - "planet of the apes"
          .html
          .html

          Google

          "planet of the apes"

          Daily update â‹… August 2, 2014

          NEWS

          Ink & Pixel: Rise Of The Planet Of The Apes

          JoBlo.com

          RISE OF THE PLANET OF THE APES stars James Franco as Will Rodman, a man of science on the hunt for a cure that will rid the world of brain ...

          Google Plus

          Facebook

          Twitter

          Flag as irrelevant

          Five movies that made the best use of CGI

          Tbo.com

          "Rise of the Planet of the Apes" (2011): Light years away from the prosthetic makeup worn by Roddy McDowell in the original movie series, this film ...

          Google Plus

          Facebook

          Twitter

          Flag as irrelevant

          Dawn of the Planet of the Apes and Rise of the Planet of the Apes: The Art of the Films

          HorrorTalk

          You can't keep a good ape down. After the successful relaunch of Planet of the Apes with 2011's Rise, Fox produced a sequel (Dawn) and spawned a ...

          Google Plus

          Facebook

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          Flag as irrelevant

          Beneath the Planet of the Apes (1970) Suffers From Budgetary Restraints

          Monster Movie Kid â‹… rchamberlain21

          ... to recapture that same success. When Planet of the Apes (1968) was a commercial hit, 20th Century Fox was more than ready to go back to Ape City…

          Google Plus

          Facebook

          Twitter

          Flag as irrelevant

          Escape from the Planet of the Apes (1971) Is A Fun Entry In The Adventure Series

          Monster Movie Kid â‹… rchamberlain21

          First, the last we saw in Beneath the Planet of the Apes (1970), Earth was destroyed. It becomes immediately obvious that this movie does not take ...

          Google Plus

          Facebook

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          Flag as irrelevant

           

           

          <.html
          <.html
          Group: pota Message: 73310 From: William Burge Date: 8/2/2014
          Subject: conquest art
          .html
          Attachments :
          .html
          dear group,  I  found a nice conquest art print on ebay enjoy from william
          <.html
          <.html
          		  @@attachment@@
          Group: pota Message: 73311 From: William Burge Date: 8/3/2014
          Subject: ape goodies
          .html
          .html
          dear group,  here are some neat ape items i  hope you enjoy from william
          <.html
          <.html
          		  @@attachment@@
          Group: pota Message: 73312 From: mlccougar Date: 8/3/2014
          Subject: Dawn/POTA & box office expectations
          .html
          .html.htmlOn the local news, there was just a report saying that the summer movie season is falling short, despite films like "Transformers", "Godzilla", and "Dawn/POTA"... They said all of these films fell below box office expectations...

          From the reports on here, I got the impression that "Dawn" was doing pretty well, but the newscast report said otherwise... Maybe someone (Jeff/Veetus) might have an idea of what they were expecting overall compared to where it's at presently?          <.html          <.html
          <.html
          Group: pota Message: 73313 From: haristas Date: 8/3/2014
          Subject: Re: Dawn/POTA & box office expectations
          .html
          This article explains it pretty well.  Don't worry about DAWN though, it's doing very well.
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
          -----Original Message-----
          From: mlccougar@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com>
          To: PotaDG <PotaDG@yahoogroups.com>
          Cc: pota <pota@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Sun, Aug 3, 2014 7:47 am
          Subject: [pota] Dawn/POTA & box office expectations

           
          On the local news, there was just a report saying that the summer movie season is falling short, despite films like "Transformers", "Godzilla", and "Dawn/POTA"... They said all of these films fell below box office expectations...

          From the reports on here, I got the impression that "Dawn" was doing pretty well, but the newscast report said otherwise... Maybe someone (Jeff/Veetus) might have an idea of what they were expecting overall compared to where it's at presently?
          <.html
          Group: pota Message: 73314 From: Bill Hollweg Date: 8/3/2014
          Subject: Re: Hasslein Institute of Temporal Physics
          .html
          As always- thank you ALL for the groovy projects!!!
          LOVE the HASSLEIN INSTITUTE OF TEMPORAL PHYSICS!!


          On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 5:57 AM, JamesA1102@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
           

          TGIF! A new installment of the HASSLEIN INSTITUTE OF TEMPORAL PHYSICS now available. Thanks to all who contributed.

           

          To read the HASSLEIN INSTITUTE click the banner on the group's home page or this link: http://www.potamediaarchive.com/HI.htm.

           

          Have a great weekend everyone!

           

          Visit all the Group's special features including:


          <.html
          Group: pota Message: 73315 From: Jeff K. Date: 8/3/2014
          Subject: box office: raccoon vs. ape
          .html
          .html
            Well, the time of the apes is over. It is now the planet of the raccoons. "Guardians of the Galaxy" was seen as the underdog of the big summer movies. Despite being a Marvel movie it was seen as too out there, too wacky, too "risky" to make a dent. But this weekend it became the greatest thing since sliced bread and the "savior of the summer". The estimate is $94 million (about $20 million more than "Dawn"), the 3rd biggest opening of the summer (behind "Transformers" and "Capt. America"). I saw "Guardians" and loved the characters but the story was stale. It reminded me of "Thor 2", which was the first time I fell asleep in a movie in a long time. When Marvel does space opera it's pretty bland, IMO. But I enjoyed the first part of the movie (characters meeting, etc.) so more power to it. Hopefully the characters will have a better story next time. By the way, I couldn't help but see a connection between Rocket Raccoon and Koba; both bitter experiments who develop a taste for firearms.
           
            So now "Guardians" is the sliced bread of the moment and "Dawn" is an also-ran, which is too bad. Judging by this weekend "Dawn" will probably go down a notch on the big summer box office scoreboard, from #6 to #7 on the domestic and worldwide charts. Does that matter? It's still seen as a success (since no one expected much from it). Hard to say. Maybe being "not all that" will protect it from tampering. Fox has bigger fish to fry ("X-Men"). Maybe they will leave it alone as a reliable moneymaker. OR maybe they will second guess it as being too much of a downer and could do better if it was happier (or maybe the raccoons become smart too). The director thanked Fox for letting him make the movie he wanted but the box office is a slippery slope and Money is the Lawgiver. I think Fox is proud of these "Ape" movies and they also have a strong producer in Peter Chernin so they are probably safe. But sh*t happens.
           
            So where are we on the box office landscape? "Dawn" added another $8 or $9 million domestic. It's at $189 million, so $200 million is a given, I think. Worldwide it's at $447 million so this week it should pass "Rise" and reach half a billion $.
           
              1. Transformers 4 - $1 billion worldwide
              2. X-Men 5 - $739 m ww
              3. Maleficent - $717 m ww
              4. Cap 2 - $713 m ww
              5. Spidey - $707 m ww
              6. Godzilla - $499 m ww
              7. Rio 2 - $493 m ww
              8. LEGO -$468 m ww
              9. Dragon 2 - $463 m ww
            10. Dawn - $447 m ww
           
              "Transformers 4" of course crossed $1 billion at the box office, the only movie this summer that will probably do so. It's the 2nd "Transformers" to reach that marker and now Mark Walberg joins his POTA2001 director Tim Burton ("Alice in Wonderland") in the Billion $ Club. Congrats, guys! Dawn's Gary Oldman has 3 movies in that exclusive club.
            So will "Dawn" reach the $700 million haven that most of champs reached? By next weekend "Dawn" will pretty much be everywhere except some of the Middle East, Venezuela and the all-important Japan (Sept. 19). I see no release for China, which gave the biggest a boost ("Transformers 4" did $300 million in China alone). I'm rooting for "Dawn" to hit $700 million but we'll see.
           
           
          <.html
          <.html
          Group: pota Message: 73316 From: haristas Date: 8/3/2014
          Subject: Re: box office: raccoon vs. ape
          .html
          I wonder if there's a cultural problem with Planet of the Apes in China?
           
           
           
           
          -----Original Message-----
          From: 'Jeff K.' veetus@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com>
          To: pota <pota@yahoogroups.com>; pota <pota@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Sun, Aug 3, 2014 5:54 pm
          Subject: [pota] box office: raccoon vs. ape

           
            Well, the time of the apes is over. It is now the planet of the raccoons. "Guardians of the Galaxy" was seen as the underdog of the big summer movies. Despite being a Marvel movie it was seen as too out there, too wacky, too "risky" to make a dent. But this weekend it became the greatest thing since sliced bread and the "savior of the summer". The estimate is $94 million (about $20 million more than "Dawn"), the 3rd biggest opening of the summer (behind "Transformers" and "Capt. America"). I saw "Guardians" and loved the characters but the story was stale. It reminded me of "Thor 2", which was the first time I fell asleep in a movie in a long time. When Marvel does space opera it's pretty bland, IMO. But I enjoyed the first part of the movie (characters meeting, etc.) so more power to it. Hopefully the characters will have a better story next time. By the way, I couldn't help but see a connection between Rocket Raccoon and Koba; both bitter experiments who develop a taste for firearms.
           
            So now "Guardians" is the sliced bread of the moment and "Dawn" is an also-ran, which is too bad. Judging by this weekend "Dawn" will probably go down a notch on the big summer box office scoreboard, from #6 to #7 on the domestic and worldwide charts. Does that matter? It's still seen as a success (since no one expected much from it). Hard to say. Maybe being "not all that" will protect it from tampering. Fox has bigger fish to fry ("X-Men"). Maybe they will leave it alone as a reliable moneymaker. OR maybe they will second guess it as being too much of a downer and could do better if it was happier (or maybe the raccoons become smart too). The director thanked Fox for letting him make the movie he wanted but the box office is a slippery slope and Money is the Lawgiver. I think Fox is proud of these "Ape" movies and they also have a strong producer in Peter Chernin so they are probably safe. But sh*t happens.
           
            So where are we on the box office landscape? "Dawn" added another $8 or $9 million domestic. It's at $189 million, so $200 million is a given, I think. Worldwide it's at $447 million so this week it should pass "Rise" and reach half a billion $.
           
              1. Transformers 4 - $1 billion worldwide
              2. X-Men 5 - $739 m ww
              3. Maleficent - $717 m ww
              4. Cap 2 - $713 m ww
              5. Spidey - $707 m ww
              6. Godzilla - $499 m ww
              7. Rio 2 - $493 m ww
              8. LEGO -$468 m ww
              9. Dragon 2 - $463 m ww
            10. Dawn - $447 m ww
           
              "Transformers 4" of course crossed $1 billion at the box office, the only movie this summer that will probably do so. It's the 2nd "Transformers" to reach that marker and now Mark Walberg joins his POTA2001 director Tim Burton ("Alice in Wonderland") in the Billion $ Club. Congrats, guys! Dawn's Gary Oldman has 3 movies in that exclusive club.
            So will "Dawn" reach the $700 million haven that most of champs reached? By next weekend "Dawn" will pretty much be everywhere except some of the Middle East, Venezuela and the all-important Japan (Sept. 19). I see no release for China, which gave the biggest a boost ("Transformers 4" did $300 million in China alone). I'm rooting for "Dawn" to hit $700 million but we'll see.
           
           
          <.html
          Group: pota Message: 73317 From: Alex Ruiz Date: 8/3/2014
          Subject: Re: box office: raccoon vs. ape
          .html
          I read somewhere that Rise's biggest (overseas) box office chunk 3 years ago came from China. If so, the Dawn has only begun.

          Al

          Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

          From: Haristas@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com>;
          To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>;
          Subject: [pota] Re: box office: raccoon vs. ape
          Sent: Sun, Aug 3, 2014 10:48:16 PM

          I wonder if there's a cultural problem with Planet of the Apes in China?
          -----Original Message-----
          From: 'Jeff K.' veetus@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com>
          To: pota <pota@yahoogroups.com>; pota <pota@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Sun, Aug 3, 2014 5:54 pm
          Subject: [pota] box office: raccoon vs. ape

          Well, the time of the apes is over. It is now the planet of the raccoons. "Guardians of the Galaxy" was seen as the underdog of the big summer movies. Despite being a Marvel movie it was seen as too out there, too wacky, too "risky" to make a dent. But this weekend it became the greatest thing since sliced bread and the "savior of the summer". The estimate is $94 million (about $20 million more than "Dawn"), the 3rd biggest opening of the summer (behind "Transformers" and "Capt. America"). I saw "Guardians" and loved the characters but the story was stale. It reminded me of "Thor 2", which was the first time I fell asleep in a movie in a long time. When Marvel does space opera it's pretty bland, IMO. But I enjoyed the first part of the movie (characters meeting, etc.) so more power to it. Hopefully the characters will have a better story next time. By the way, I couldn't help but see a connection between Rocket Raccoon and Koba; both bitter experiments who develop a taste for firearms.
          So now "Guardians" is the sliced bread of the moment and "Dawn" is an also-ran, which is too bad. Judging by this weekend "Dawn" will probably go down a notch on the big summer box office scoreboard, from #6 to #7 on the domestic and worldwide charts. Does that matter? It's still seen as a success (since no one expected much from it). Hard to say. Maybe being "not all that" will protect it from tampering. Fox has bigger fish to fry ("X-Men"). Maybe they will leave it alone as a reliable moneymaker. OR maybe they will second guess it as being too much of a downer and could do better if it was happier (or maybe the raccoons become smart too). The director thanked Fox for letting him make the movie he wanted but the box office is a slippery slope and Money is the Lawgiver. I think Fox is proud of these "Ape" movies and they also have a strong producer in Peter Chernin so they are probably safe. But sh*t happens.
          So where are we on the box office landscape? "Dawn" added another $8 or $9 million domestic. It's at $189 million, so $200 million is a given, I think. Worldwide it's at $447 million so this week it should pass "Rise" and reach half a billion $.
          1. Transformers 4 - $1 billion worldwide
          2. X-Men 5 - $739 m ww
          3. Maleficent - $717 m ww
          4. Cap 2 - $713 m ww
          5. Spidey - $707 m ww
          6. Godzilla - $499 m ww
          7. Rio 2 - $493 m ww
          8. LEGO -$468 m ww
          9. Dragon 2 - $463 m ww
          10. Dawn - $447 m ww
          "Transformers 4" of course crossed $1 billion at the box office, the only movie this summer that will probably do so. It's the 2nd "Transformers" to reach that marker and now Mark Walberg joins his POTA2001 director Tim Burton ("Alice in Wonderland") in the Billion $ Club. Congrats, guys! Dawn's Gary Oldman has 3 movies in that exclusive club.
          So will "Dawn" reach the $700 million haven that most of champs reached? By next weekend "Dawn" will pretty much be everywhere except some of the Middle East, Venezuela and the all-important Japan (Sept. 19). I see no release for China, which gave the biggest a boost ("Transformers 4" did $300 million in China alone). I'm rooting for "Dawn" to hit $700 million but we'll see.
          <.html
          Group: pota Message: 73318 From: Jeff K. Date: 8/3/2014
          Subject: Re: box office: raccoon vs. ape
          .html
          .html
            I don't think "Rise" played China. They are very strict.
            But China's biggest hit this year (until "Transformers 4" was "The Monkey King".

          Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2014 5:19 PM
          Subject: RE: [pota] Re: box office: raccoon vs. ape

           

          I read somewhere that Rise's biggest (overseas) box office chunk 3 years ago came from China. If so, the Dawn has only begun.

          Al

          Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


          From: Haristas@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com>;
          To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>;
          Subject: [pota] Re: box office: raccoon vs. ape
          Sent: Sun, Aug 3, 2014 10:48:16 PM

           

          I wonder if there's a cultural problem with Planet of the Apes in China?
           
           
           
           
          -----Original Message-----
          From: 'Jeff K.' veetus@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com>
          To: pota <pota@yahoogroups.com>; pota <pota@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Sun, Aug 3, 2014 5:54 pm
          Subject: [pota] box office: raccoon vs. ape

           
            Well, the time of the apes is over. It is now the planet of the raccoons. "Guardians of the Galaxy" was seen as the underdog of the big summer movies. Despite being a Marvel movie it was seen as too out there, too wacky, too "risky" to make a dent. But this weekend it became the greatest thing since sliced bread and the "savior of the summer". The estimate is $94 million (about $20 million more than "Dawn"), the 3rd biggest opening of the summer (behind "Transformers" and "Capt. America"). I saw "Guardians" and loved the characters but the story was stale. It reminded me of "Thor 2", which was the first time I fell asleep in a movie in a long time. When Marvel does space opera it's pretty bland, IMO. But I enjoyed the first part of the movie (characters meeting, etc.) so more power to it. Hopefully the characters will have a better story next time. By the way, I couldn't help but see a connection between Rocket Raccoon and Koba; both bitter experiments who develop a taste for firearms.
           
            So now "Guardians" is the sliced bread of the moment and "Dawn" is an also-ran, which is too bad. Judging by this weekend "Dawn" will probably go down a notch on the big summer box office scoreboard, from #6 to #7 on the domestic and worldwide charts. Does that matter? It's still seen as a success (since no one expected much from it). Hard to say. Maybe being "not all that" will protect it from tampering. Fox has bigger fish to fry ("X-Men"). Maybe they will leave it alone as a reliable moneymaker. OR maybe they will second guess it as being too much of a downer and could do better if it was happier (or maybe the raccoons become smart too). The director thanked Fox for letting him make the movie he wanted but the box office is a slippery slope and Money is the Lawgiver. I think Fox is proud of these "Ape" movies and they also have a strong producer in Peter Chernin so they are probably safe. But sh*t happens.
           
            So where are we on the box office landscape? "Dawn" added another $8 or $9 million domestic. It's at $189 million, so $200 million is a given, I think. Worldwide it's at $447 million so this week it should pass "Rise" and reach half a billion $.
           
              1. Transformers 4 - $1 billion worldwide
              2. X-Men 5 - $739 m ww
              3. Maleficent - $717 m ww
              4. Cap 2 - $713 m ww
              5. Spidey - $707 m ww
              6. Godzilla - $499 m ww
              7. Rio 2 - $493 m ww
              8. LEGO -$468 m ww
              9. Dragon 2 - $463 m ww
            10. Dawn - $447 m ww
           
              "Transformers 4" of course crossed $1 billion at the box office, the only movie this summer that will probably do so. It's the 2nd "Transformers" to reach that marker and now Mark Walberg joins his POTA2001 director Tim Burton ("Alice in Wonderland") in the Billion $ Club. Congrats, guys! Dawn's Gary Oldman has 3 movies in that exclusive club.
            So will "Dawn" reach the $700 million haven that most of champs reached? By next weekend "Dawn" will pretty much be everywhere except some of the Middle East, Venezuela and the all-important Japan (Sept. 19). I see no release for China, which gave the biggest a boost ("Transformers 4" did $300 million in China alone). I'm rooting for "Dawn" to hit $700 million but we'll see.
           
           

          <.html
          <.html
          Group: pota Message: 73319 From: Jeff K. Date: 8/3/2014
          Subject: Pierre Boulle
          .html
          .html
            Interesting. Here's an article about Pierre Boulle, including an interview with the husband of Boulle's niece (including Boulle's last words).
           
          <.html
          <.html
          Group: pota Message: 73320 From: Jeff K. Date: 8/3/2014
          Subject: Re: box office: raccoon vs. ape
          .html
          .html
           
           

          From: Jeff K.
          Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2014 8:19 PM
          Subject: Re: [pota] Re: box office: raccoon vs. ape

            You're right, Al. "Rise" wuz released in China Oct. 28 2011 and made $30 million.

          Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2014 7:13 PM
          Subject: Re: [pota] Re: box office: raccoon vs. ape

           

            I don't think "Rise" played China. They are very strict.
            But China's biggest hit this year (until "Transformers 4" was "The Monkey King".

          Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2014 5:19 PM
          Subject: RE: [pota] Re: box office: raccoon vs. ape

           

          I read somewhere that Rise's biggest (overseas) box office chunk 3 years ago came from China. If so, the Dawn has only begun.

          Al

          Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


          From: Haristas@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com>;
          To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>;
          Subject: [pota] Re: box office: raccoon vs. ape
          Sent: Sun, Aug 3, 2014 10:48:16 PM

           

          I wonder if there's a cultural problem with Planet of the Apes in China?
           
           
           
           
          -----Original Message-----
          From: 'Jeff K.' veetus@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com>
          To: pota <pota@yahoogroups.com>; pota <pota@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Sun, Aug 3, 2014 5:54 pm
          Subject: [pota] box office: raccoon vs. ape

           
            Well, the time of the apes is over. It is now the planet of the raccoons. "Guardians of the Galaxy" was seen as the underdog of the big summer movies. Despite being a Marvel movie it was seen as too out there, too wacky, too "risky" to make a dent. But this weekend it became the greatest thing since sliced bread and the "savior of the summer". The estimate is $94 million (about $20 million more than "Dawn"), the 3rd biggest opening of the summer (behind "Transformers" and "Capt. America"). I saw "Guardians" and loved the characters but the story was stale. It reminded me of "Thor 2", which was the first time I fell asleep in a movie in a long time. When Marvel does space opera it's pretty bland, IMO. But I enjoyed the first part of the movie (characters meeting, etc.) so more power to it. Hopefully the characters will have a better story next time. By the way, I couldn't help but see a connection between Rocket Raccoon and Koba; both bitter experiments who develop a taste for firearms.
           
            So now "Guardians" is the sliced bread of the moment and "Dawn" is an also-ran, which is too bad. Judging by this weekend "Dawn" will probably go down a notch on the big summer box office scoreboard, from #6 to #7 on the domestic and worldwide charts. Does that matter? It's still seen as a success (since no one expected much from it). Hard to say. Maybe being "not all that" will protect it from tampering. Fox has bigger fish to fry ("X-Men"). Maybe they will leave it alone as a reliable moneymaker. OR maybe they will second guess it as being too much of a downer and could do better if it was happier (or maybe the raccoons become smart too). The director thanked Fox for letting him make the movie he wanted but the box office is a slippery slope and Money is the Lawgiver. I think Fox is proud of these "Ape" movies and they also have a strong producer in Peter Chernin so they are probably safe. But sh*t happens.
           
            So where are we on the box office landscape? "Dawn" added another $8 or $9 million domestic. It's at $189 million, so $200 million is a given, I think. Worldwide it's at $447 million so this week it should pass "Rise" and reach half a billion $.
           
              1. Transformers 4 - $1 billion worldwide
              2. X-Men 5 - $739 m ww
              3. Maleficent - $717 m ww
              4. Cap 2 - $713 m ww
              5. Spidey - $707 m ww
              6. Godzilla - $499 m ww
              7. Rio 2 - $493 m ww
              8. LEGO -$468 m ww
              9. Dragon 2 - $463 m ww
            10. Dawn - $447 m ww
           
              "Transformers 4" of course crossed $1 billion at the box office, the only movie this summer that will probably do so. It's the 2nd "Transformers" to reach that marker and now Mark Walberg joins his POTA2001 director Tim Burton ("Alice in Wonderland") in the Billion $ Club. Congrats, guys! Dawn's Gary Oldman has 3 movies in that exclusive club.
            So will "Dawn" reach the $700 million haven that most of champs reached? By next weekend "Dawn" will pretty much be everywhere except some of the Middle East, Venezuela and the all-important Japan (Sept. 19). I see no release for China, which gave the biggest a boost ("Transformers 4" did $300 million in China alone). I'm rooting for "Dawn" to hit $700 million but we'll see.
           
           

          <.html
          <.html
          Group: pota Message: 73321 From: Jeff K. Date: 8/3/2014
          Subject: Re: box office: raccoon vs. ape
          .html
          .html
            You're right, Al. "Rise" wuz released in China Oct. 28 2011 and made $30 million.

          Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2014 7:13 PM
          Subject: Re: [pota] Re: box office: raccoon vs. ape

           

            I don't think "Rise" played China. They are very strict.
            But China's biggest hit this year (until "Transformers 4" was "The Monkey King".

          Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2014 5:19 PM
          Subject: RE: [pota] Re: box office: raccoon vs. ape

           

          I read somewhere that Rise's biggest (overseas) box office chunk 3 years ago came from China. If so, the Dawn has only begun.

          Al

          Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


          From: Haristas@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com>;
          To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>;
          Subject: [pota] Re: box office: raccoon vs. ape
          Sent: Sun, Aug 3, 2014 10:48:16 PM

           

          I wonder if there's a cultural problem with Planet of the Apes in China?
           
           
           
           
          -----Original Message-----
          From: 'Jeff K.' veetus@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com>
          To: pota <pota@yahoogroups.com>; pota <pota@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Sun, Aug 3, 2014 5:54 pm
          Subject: [pota] box office: raccoon vs. ape

           
            Well, the time of the apes is over. It is now the planet of the raccoons. "Guardians of the Galaxy" was seen as the underdog of the big summer movies. Despite being a Marvel movie it was seen as too out there, too wacky, too "risky" to make a dent. But this weekend it became the greatest thing since sliced bread and the "savior of the summer". The estimate is $94 million (about $20 million more than "Dawn"), the 3rd biggest opening of the summer (behind "Transformers" and "Capt. America"). I saw "Guardians" and loved the characters but the story was stale. It reminded me of "Thor 2", which was the first time I fell asleep in a movie in a long time. When Marvel does space opera it's pretty bland, IMO. But I enjoyed the first part of the movie (characters meeting, etc.) so more power to it. Hopefully the characters will have a better story next time. By the way, I couldn't help but see a connection between Rocket Raccoon and Koba; both bitter experiments who develop a taste for firearms.
           
            So now "Guardians" is the sliced bread of the moment and "Dawn" is an also-ran, which is too bad. Judging by this weekend "Dawn" will probably go down a notch on the big summer box office scoreboard, from #6 to #7 on the domestic and worldwide charts. Does that matter? It's still seen as a success (since no one expected much from it). Hard to say. Maybe being "not all that" will protect it from tampering. Fox has bigger fish to fry ("X-Men"). Maybe they will leave it alone as a reliable moneymaker. OR maybe they will second guess it as being too much of a downer and could do better if it was happier (or maybe the raccoons become smart too). The director thanked Fox for letting him make the movie he wanted but the box office is a slippery slope and Money is the Lawgiver. I think Fox is proud of these "Ape" movies and they also have a strong producer in Peter Chernin so they are probably safe. But sh*t happens.
           
            So where are we on the box office landscape? "Dawn" added another $8 or $9 million domestic. It's at $189 million, so $200 million is a given, I think. Worldwide it's at $447 million so this week it should pass "Rise" and reach half a billion $.
           
              1. Transformers 4 - $1 billion worldwide
              2. X-Men 5 - $739 m ww
              3. Maleficent - $717 m ww
              4. Cap 2 - $713 m ww
              5. Spidey - $707 m ww
              6. Godzilla - $499 m ww
              7. Rio 2 - $493 m ww
              8. LEGO -$468 m ww
              9. Dragon 2 - $463 m ww
            10. Dawn - $447 m ww
           
              "Transformers 4" of course crossed $1 billion at the box office, the only movie this summer that will probably do so. It's the 2nd "Transformers" to reach that marker and now Mark Walberg joins his POTA2001 director Tim Burton ("Alice in Wonderland") in the Billion $ Club. Congrats, guys! Dawn's Gary Oldman has 3 movies in that exclusive club.
            So will "Dawn" reach the $700 million haven that most of champs reached? By next weekend "Dawn" will pretty much be everywhere except some of the Middle East, Venezuela and the all-important Japan (Sept. 19). I see no release for China, which gave the biggest a boost ("Transformers 4" did $300 million in China alone). I'm rooting for "Dawn" to hit $700 million but we'll see.
           
           

          <.html
          <.html
          Group: pota Message: 73322 From: Jeff K. Date: 8/4/2014
          Subject: Pierre Boulle Association
          .html
          .html
            Here's the website Boulle's family runs (in French). Includes "Dawn" in the news section.
           
           
           And here's a pdf of their brochure.
           
          <.html
          <.html
          Group: pota Message: 73323 From: Alex Ruiz Date: 8/4/2014
          Subject: Re: box office: raccoon vs. ape
          .html
          According to Box Office Mojo, Rise made $30M in China, $30 in Japan and $10M in Germany. So I estimate a $550M to $600M total for Dawn by the time it's all said and done. Not too shabby. Apes are alive and well.

          Al

          From: 'Jeff K.' veetus@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com>;
          To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>;
          Subject: Re: [pota] Re: box office: raccoon vs. ape
          Sent: Mon, Aug 4, 2014 3:25:35 AM


          From: Jeff K.
          Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2014 8:19 PM
          Subject: Re: [pota] Re: box office: raccoon vs. ape

          You're right, Al. "Rise" wuz released in China Oct. 28 2011 and made $30 million.

          Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2014 7:13 PM
          Subject: Re: [pota] Re: box office: raccoon vs. ape

          I don't think "Rise" played China. They are very strict.
          But China's biggest hit this year (until "Transformers 4" was "The Monkey King".

          Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2014 5:19 PM
          Subject: RE: [pota] Re: box office: raccoon vs. ape

          I read somewhere that Rise's biggest (overseas) box office chunk 3 years ago came from China. If so, the Dawn has only begun.

          Al

          Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


          From: Haristas@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com>;
          To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>;
          Subject: [pota] Re: box office: raccoon vs. ape
          Sent: Sun, Aug 3, 2014 10:48:16 PM

          I wonder if there's a cultural problem with Planet of the Apes in China?
          -----Original Message-----
          From: 'Jeff K.' veetus@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com>
          To: pota <pota@yahoogroups.com>; pota <pota@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Sun, Aug 3, 2014 5:54 pm
          Subject: [pota] box office: raccoon vs. ape

          Well, the time of the apes is over. It is now the planet of the raccoons. "Guardians of the Galaxy" was seen as the underdog of the big summer movies. Despite being a Marvel movie it was seen as too out there, too wacky, too "risky" to make a dent. But this weekend it became the greatest thing since sliced bread and the "savior of the summer". The estimate is $94 million (about $20 million more than "Dawn"), the 3rd biggest opening of the summer (behind "Transformers" and "Capt. America"). I saw "Guardians" and loved the characters but the story was stale. It reminded me of "Thor 2", which was the first time I fell asleep in a movie in a long time. When Marvel does space opera it's pretty bland, IMO. But I enjoyed the first part of the movie (characters meeting, etc.) so more power to it. Hopefully the characters will have a better story next time. By the way, I couldn't help but see a connection between Rocket Raccoon and Koba; both bitter experiments who develop a taste for firearms.
          So now "Guardians" is the sliced bread of the moment and "Dawn" is an also-ran, which is too bad. Judging by this weekend "Dawn" will probably go down a notch on the big summer box office scoreboard, from #6 to #7 on the domestic and worldwide charts. Does that matter? It's still seen as a success (since no one expected much from it). Hard to say. Maybe being "not all that" will protect it from tampering. Fox has bigger fish to fry ("X-Men"). Maybe they will leave it alone as a reliable moneymaker. OR maybe they will second guess it as being too much of a downer and could do better if it was happier (or maybe the raccoons become smart too). The director thanked Fox for letting him make the movie he wanted but the box office is a slippery slope and Money is the Lawgiver. I think Fox is proud of these "Ape" movies and they also have a strong producer in Peter Chernin so they are probably safe. But sh*t happens.
          So where are we on the box office landscape? "Dawn" added another $8 or $9 million domestic. It's at $189 million, so $200 million is a given, I think. Worldwide it's at $447 million so this week it should pass "Rise" and reach half a billion $.
          1. Transformers 4 - $1 billion worldwide
          2. X-Men 5 - $739 m ww
          3. Maleficent - $717 m ww
          4. Cap 2 - $713 m ww
          5. Spidey - $707 m ww
          6. Godzilla - $499 m ww
          7. Rio 2 - $493 m ww
          8. LEGO -$468 m ww
          9. Dragon 2 - $463 m ww
          10. Dawn - $447 m ww
          "Transformers 4" of course crossed $1 billion at the box office, the only movie this summer that will probably do so. It's the 2nd "Transformers" to reach that marker and now Mark Walberg joins his POTA2001 director Tim Burton ("Alice in Wonderland") in the Billion $ Club. Congrats, guys! Dawn's Gary Oldman has 3 movies in that exclusive club.
          So will "Dawn" reach the $700 million haven that most of champs reached? By next weekend "Dawn" will pretty much be everywhere except some of the Middle East, Venezuela and the all-important Japan (Sept. 19). I see no release for China, which gave the biggest a boost ("Transformers 4" did $300 million in China alone). I'm rooting for "Dawn" to hit $700 million but we'll see.
          <.html
          Group: pota Message: 73324 From: William Burge Date: 8/4/2014
          Subject: planet items
          .html
          .html
          dear group,  here are some neat planet items that were on ebay from william
          <.html
          <.html
          		  @@attachment@@
          Group: pota Message: 73325 From: pota@yahoogroups.com Date: 8/4/2014
          Subject: Natalie Trundy's Birthday, 8/5/2014, 12:00 am
          .html
          .html
          Reminder from:   pota Yahoo Group
           
          Title:   Natalie Trundy's Birthday
           
          Date:   Tuesday August 5, 2014
          Time:   12:00 am - 12:00 am (GMT-05.00) Eastern Time (US & Canada)
          Notes:   Born on this day in 1940.
           
          <.html
          <.html
          Group: pota Message: 73326 From: pota@yahoogroups.com Date: 8/4/2014
          Subject: Rise of the Planet of the Apes premiered in this day in 2012, 8/5/20
          .html
          .html
          Reminder from:   pota Yahoo Group
           
          Title:   Rise of the Planet of the Apes premiered in this day in 2012
           
          Date:   Tuesday August 5, 2014
          Time:   12:00 am - 12:00 am (GMT-05.00) Eastern Time (US & Canada)
           
          <.html
          <.html
          Group: pota Message: 73327 From: pota@yahoogroups.com Date: 8/4/2014
          Subject: Joyce Hooper Corrington's Birthday, 8/5/2014, 12:00 am
          .html
          .html
          Reminder from:   pota Yahoo Group
           
          Title:   Joyce Hooper Corrington's Birthday
           
          Date:   Tuesday August 5, 2014
          Time:   12:00 am - 12:00 am (GMT-05.00) Eastern Time (US & Canada)
           
          <.html
          <.html
          Group: pota Message: 73328 From: Jeff K. Date: 8/5/2014
          Subject: NECA: giving POTA a shot
          .html
          .html
            Here's test shots of all the NECA Classic Ape figures so far (minus '68 Zauis):
           
          <.html
          <.html
          Group: pota Message: 73329 From: mikem3978 Date: 8/5/2014
          Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
          .html

          I agree, Rory.  His expression says it all!


          ---In pota@yahoogroups.com, <Haristas@...> wrote :

          It's hard to discount "Beneath" with even Heston in it.
           
           
           
          Is it?  I find it very easy, being the ill-conceived mess that it is.  Best comment ever about BENEATH: the expression on Mort Abrahams' face when he makes his last words about it in the "Behind the Planet of the Apes" documentary.  Priceless.
          <.html
          Group: pota Message: 73330 From: haristas Date: 8/5/2014
          Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
          .html
          I really wish it wasn't so, but unfortunately BENEATH is what it is and will always be.
           
           
           
           
          -----Original Message-----
          From: mmuse@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com>
          To: pota <pota@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tue, Aug 5, 2014 12:24 pm
          Subject: [pota] Re: Different questions and issues:

           

          I agree, Rory.  His expression says it all!


          ---In pota@yahoogroups.com, <Haristas@...> wrote :

          It's hard to discount "Beneath" with even Heston in it.
           
           
           
          Is it?  I find it very easy, being the ill-conceived mess that it is.  Best comment ever about BENEATH: the expression on Mort Abrahams' face when he makes his last words about it in the "Behind the Planet of the Apes" documentary.  Priceless.
          <.html
          Group: pota Message: 73331 From: Jeff K. Date: 8/5/2014
          Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
          .html
          .html
            A lot of people love it, including the director of "Dawn".

          Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2014 9:28 AM
          Subject: [pota] Re: Different questions and issues:

           

          I really wish it wasn't so, but unfortunately BENEATH is what it is and will always be.
           
           
           
           
          -----Original Message-----
          From: mmuse@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com>
          To: pota <pota@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Tue, Aug 5, 2014 12:24 pm
          Subject: [pota] Re: Different questions and issues:

           

          I agree, Rory.  His expression says it all!


          ---In pota@yahoogroups.com, <Haristas@...> wrote :

          It's hard to discount "Beneath" with even Heston in it.
           
           
           
          Is it?  I find it very easy, being the ill-conceived mess that it is.  Best comment ever about BENEATH: the expression on Mort Abrahams' face when he makes his last words about it in the "Behind the Planet of the Apes" documentary.  Priceless.

          <.html
          <.html
          Group: pota Message: 73332 From: William Burge Date: 8/5/2014
          Subject: ape goodies
          .html
          .html
          dear group,  here are some neat ape items enjoy from william
          <.html
          <.html
          		  @@attachment@@
          Group: pota Message: 73333 From: mlccougar Date: 8/6/2014
          Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
          .html
          .html.htmlWhile you guys are entitled to your opinion(s), I just don't get the almost hatred of BENEATH... Is it the film PLANET is/was?: No, but for what it is, I think it's good... And as far as the expression on Mort Abrahams' face: I don't see what you're referring to... He says that he thinks they were moderately successful and doesn't know if that's all they could have been, but that he thinks that's what they were, and ends by saying the surprise of the first film couldn't be topped... He doesn't say BENEATH is the greatest film of them all, but I sure don't get the impression that he was really "down on it", just that maybe he thought it could have been better, but I don't think he was ashamed of it either...




          In a message dated 8/5/2014 11:24:42 AM Central Daylight Time, pota@yahoogroups.com writes:

          I agree, Rory.  His expression says it all!


          ---In pota@yahoogroups.com, <Haristas@...> wrote :



          It's hard to discount "Beneath" with even Heston in it.



           


          Is it?  I find it very easy, being the ill-conceived mess that it is.  Best comment ever about BENEATH: the expression on Mort Abrahams' face when he makes his last words about it in the "Behind the Planet of the Apes" documentary.  Priceless.







          <.html          <.html
          <.html
          Group: pota Message: 73334 From: jamesa1102 Date: 8/6/2014
          Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
          .html
          I have to agree. Beneath is not the classic that Planet was nor was it the best of the sequels. But it is a fun movie to watch at times and has some really good moments like Ursus' speech.


          ---In pota@yahoogroups.com, <mlccougar@...> wrote :

          While you guys are entitled to your opinion(s), I just don't get the almost hatred of BENEATH... Is it the film PLANET is/was?: No, but for what it is, I think it's good... And as far as the expression on Mort Abrahams' face: I don't see what you're referring to... He says that he thinks they were moderately successful and doesn't know if that's all they could have been, but that he thinks that's what they were, and ends by saying the surprise of the first film couldn't be topped... He doesn't say BENEATH is the greatest film of them all, but I sure don't get the impression that he was really "down on it", just that maybe he thought it could have been better, but I don't think he was ashamed of it either...




           
          <.html
          Group: pota Message: 73335 From: mlccougar Date: 8/6/2014
          Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
          .html
          .html.htmlJust wondering: Which of the sequels do you think is best? For me, BENEATH is the best sequel, ESCAPE and CONQUEST are tied, and then BATTLE comes in last...



          In a message dated 8/6/2014 5:59:48 AM Central Daylight Time, pota@yahoogroups.com writes:

          I have to agree. Beneath is not the classic that Planet was nor was it the best of the sequels. But it is a fun movie to watch at times and has some really good moments like Ursus' speech.


          <.html          <.html
          <.html
          Group: pota Message: 73336 From: haristas Date: 8/6/2014
          Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
          .html
           
          I have to agree. Beneath is not the classic that Planet was nor was it the best of the sequels. But it is a fun movie to watch at times and has some really good moments like Ursus' speech.
           
           
           
          Unfortunately for nearly everything that could be enjoyed there's something that spoils it.  The Ursus' speech is a nice scene, but all the background masks and the neglected Ape Town set and stagnate lake water distract to the point of annoyance now and there were weather problems during production, so some shots are overcast, others not.  Also, James Franciscus delivering the line, "My God, it a city of apes!"  Lame.
          <.html
          Group: pota Message: 73337 From: Dario Sciola Date: 8/6/2014
          Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
          .html
          For me, the best sequel is by far Conquest. It took PotA to a really dark area. While it was most notable for the violence portrayed, it was also a pretty good story, with rich characters. Armando (greatly expanded from Escape), MacDonald, Breck, and even Kolp were great characters. The speech at the end (the edited longer version) was one hell of speech. Even the actual battles were well staged and it's thrilling as you watch Caesar command and control his new army. But the best part of the movie is that it gave us Caesar himself who in my books has always been the best portrayed movie ape beating out even the Zira, Zaius, Cornelius trio of the earlier movies.

          Full disclosure: Conquest was the first PotA movie I saw. And it was on the big screen as a double feature with Battle. This was shortly after Battle was released. Even as a kid back then I could see how much the budget and quality eroded from Conquest to Battle.

          Dario


          On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 7:35 AM, mlccougar@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

          Just wondering: Which of the sequels do you think is best? For me, BENEATH is the best sequel, ESCAPE and CONQUEST are tied, and then BATTLE comes in last...



          In a message dated 8/6/2014 5:59:48 AM Central Daylight Time, pota@yahoogroups.com writes:

          I have to agree. Beneath is not the classic that Planet was nor was it the best of the sequels. But it is a fun movie to watch at times and has some really good moments like Ursus' speech.



          <.html
          Group: pota Message: 73338 From: Jeff K. Date: 8/6/2014
          Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
          .html
          .html
            Best sequel is "Dawn". Ow! Who threw that? OK , I guess it's too soon to say that. So it would be "Escape". It stumbles sometimes in it's execution (the primitive gorilla, the zero budget) but not in it's script or it's acting. Powerful movie. And yes, the first POTA I ever saw.

          Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2014 5:31 AM
          To: POTA
          Subject: Re: [pota] Re: Different questions and issues:

           

          For me, the best sequel is by far Conquest. It took PotA to a really dark area. While it was most notable for the violence portrayed, it was also a pretty good story, with rich characters. Armando (greatly expanded from Escape), MacDonald, Breck, and even Kolp were great characters. The speech at the end (the edited longer version) was one hell of speech. Even the actual battles were well staged and it's thrilling as you watch Caesar command and control his new army. But the best part of the movie is that it gave us Caesar himself who in my books has always been the best portrayed movie ape beating out even the Zira, Zaius, Cornelius trio of the earlier movies.

          Full disclosure: Conquest was the first PotA movie I saw. And it was on the big screen as a double feature with Battle. This was shortly after Battle was released. Even as a kid back then I could see how much the budget and quality eroded from Conquest to Battle.

          Dario


          On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 7:35 AM, mlccougar@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
           

          Just wondering: Which of the sequels do you think is best? For me, BENEATH is the best sequel, ESCAPE and CONQUEST are tied, and then BATTLE comes in last...



          In a message dated 8/6/2014 5:59:48 AM Central Daylight Time, pota@yahoogroups.com writes:

          I have to agree. Beneath is not the classic that Planet was nor was it the best of the sequels. But it is a fun movie to watch at times and has some really good moments like Ursus' speech.



          <.html
          <.html
          Group: pota Message: 73339 From: mikem3978 Date: 8/6/2014
          Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
          .html

          My thoughts exactly, Ursus is an interesting character, but as you watch the speech, background masks everywhere.  Couldn't they at least place all the background masks IN THE BACKGROUND, not interspersed with the real appliance makeup.  And apparently all of the maintenance apes and groundskeepers in Ape City were fired because there are weeds and overgrowth everywhere , even on the bridge across the lake, and the three pine trees in town are now completely dead and still standing there, making it obvious that the crew just showed up on set and started filming, forget any attention to detail.

           

          And another pet peeve, in PLANET, Zira is almost obsessed with finding out about Taylor and where he came from, yet when Brent shows up at her door, its like, oh, another speaking human astronaut, well, let me get him changed into human clothing I happen to keep in my spare bedroom, and get him out the door as soon as possible, I have a chocolate cake to get back to.  Lame.

           

          I wouldn't call it hatred, more like extreme disappointment for what could have been.  ESCAPE is my favorite sequel, I don't really care for the others.



          ---In pota@yahoogroups.com, <Haristas@...> wrote :

           
          Unfortunately for nearly everything that could be enjoyed there's something that spoils it.  The Ursus' speech is a nice scene, but all the background masks and the neglected Ape Town set and stagnate lake water distract to the point of annoyance now and there were weather problems during production, so some shots are overcast, others not.  Also, James Franciscus delivering the line, "My God, it a city of apes!"  Lame.
          <.html
          Group: pota Message: 73340 From: haristas Date: 8/6/2014
          Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
          .html
           
          Best sequel is "Dawn".
           
          You mean prequel.  The old franchise is sequels, the new is prequels.  Anyone who doesn't agree gets a reboot -- and you know where.
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
          -----Original Message-----
          From: 'Jeff K.' veetus@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com>
          To: pota <pota@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Wed, Aug 6, 2014 10:34 am
          Subject: Re: [pota] Re: Different questions and issues:

           
            Best sequel is "Dawn". Ow! Who threw that? OK , I guess it's too soon to say that. So it would be "Escape". It stumbles sometimes in it's execution (the primitive gorilla, the zero budget) but not in it's script or it's acting. Powerful movie. And yes, the first POTA I ever saw.

          Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2014 5:31 AM
          To: POTA
          Subject: Re: [pota] Re: Different questions and issues:

           
          For me, the best sequel is by far Conquest. It took PotA to a really dark area. While it was most notable for the violence portrayed, it was also a pretty good story, with rich characters. Armando (greatly expanded from Escape), MacDonald, Breck, and even Kolp were great characters. The speech at the end (the edited longer version) was one hell of speech. Even the actual battles were well staged and it's thrilling as you watch Caesar command and control his new army. But the best part of the movie is that it gave us Caesar himself who in my books has always been the best portrayed movie ape beating out even the Zira, Zaius, Cornelius trio of the earlier movies.

          Full disclosure: Conquest was the first PotA movie I saw. And it was on the big screen as a double feature with Battle. This was shortly after Battle was released. Even as a kid back then I could see how much the budget and quality eroded from Conquest to Battle.

          Dario


          On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 7:35 AM, mlccougar@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
           
          Just wondering: Which of the sequels do you think is best? For me, BENEATH is the best sequel, ESCAPE and CONQUEST are tied, and then BATTLE comes in last...



          In a message dated 8/6/2014 5:59:48 AM Central Daylight Time, pota@yahoogroups.com writes:

          I have to agree. Beneath is not the classic that Planet was nor was it the best of the sequels. But it is a fun movie to watch at times and has some really good moments like Ursus' speech.



          <.html
          Group: pota Message: 73341 From: monkeymermaid65 Date: 8/6/2014
          Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
          .html
          As a kid I liked ESCAPE, I guess because I identified with the Zira and Cornielus characters, and later I leaned more towards CONQUEST, with its themes of rebelling and fighting suppression, but now I kinda of like RISE if you consider that a sequel. It's true there are elements in the film I really hate, and one can debate over how well, or even if, this film and it's offshoots fit in with the Arthur Jacobs universe, but for me this film has messages in it that are just as deep and important as what POTA68 or CONQUEST had to say. 
          <.html
          Group: pota Message: 73342 From: haristas Date: 8/6/2014
          Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
          .html
          I wouldn't call it hatred, more like extreme disappointment for what could have been. 
           
          Well, it is hatred with me, but born out of very great disappointment.  It should have been better.  I can still recall what a long wait it seemed for the sequel back then and when it finally arrived it was BENEATH -- and it was strange.  I'd never heard of this James Franciscus, and what's with these human mutants?
           
          For me, BENEATH just isn't anything like PLANET.  It hasn't got the same vibe, and I've never been able to warm to the score.
           
          I saw PLANET five times theatrically (twice in '69, three times in '69), so when BENEATH came out, I felt I had to see it five times too, and I did this in less than a month.  When I saw PLANET for the fifth time, it was a good as the first time I saw and I wanted to see it again.  But by the time I saw BENEATH for the fifth time, I was bored as hell and didn't care to see it again anytime soon.  I'd see BENEATH again the next year but fortunately on a double-bill with PLANET.
           
          BENEATH was also an embarrassment sometimes.  I remember that when the APES movies were first on TV a lot of kids at school had never seen them before, but I always talked about it.  So they see PLANET and think its cool, but then BENEATH is shown and I had to start hearing how it sucked.  All I could do was say, "Yeah, I agree."
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
          -----Original Message-----
          From: mmuse@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com>
          To: pota <pota@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Wed, Aug 6, 2014 11:41 am
          Subject: [pota] Re: Different questions and issues:

           
          My thoughts exactly, Ursus is an interesting character, but as you watch the speech, background masks everywhere.  Couldn't they at least place all the background masks IN THE BACKGROUND, not interspersed with the real appliance makeup.  And apparently all of the maintenance apes and groundskeepers in Ape City were fired because there are weeds and overgrowth everywhere , even on the bridge across the lake, and the three pine trees in town are now completely dead and still standing there, making it obvious that the crew just showed up on set and started filming, forget any attention to detail.
           
          And another pet peeve, in PLANET, Zira is almost obsessed with finding out about Taylor and where he came from, yet when Brent shows up at her door, its like, oh, another speaking human astronaut, well, let me get him changed into human clothing I happen to keep in my spare bedroom, and get him out the door as soon as possible, I have a chocolate cake to get back to.  Lame.
           
          I wouldn't call it hatred, more like extreme disappointment for what could have been.  ESCAPE is my favorite sequel, I don't really care for the others.


          ---In pota@yahoogroups.com, <Haristas@...> wrote :

           
          Unfortunately for nearly everything that could be enjoyed there's something that spoils it.  The Ursus' speech is a nice scene, but all the background masks and the neglected Ape Town set and stagnate lake water distract to the point of annoyance now and there were weather problems during production, so some shots are overcast, others not.  Also, James Franciscus delivering the line, "My God, it a city of apes!"  Lame.
          <.html
          Group: pota Message: 73343 From: Jeff K. Date: 8/6/2014
          Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
          .html
          .html
            "Dawn" is a sequel to "Rise". Sequel is as sequel does.

          Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2014 8:14 AM
          Subject: [pota] Re: Different questions and issues:

           

           
          Best sequel is "Dawn".
           
          You mean prequel.  The old franchise is sequels, the new is prequels.  Anyone who doesn't agree gets a reboot -- and you know where.
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
           
          -----Original Message-----
          From: 'Jeff K.' veetus@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com>
          To: pota <pota@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Wed, Aug 6, 2014 10:34 am
          Subject: Re: [pota] Re: Different questions and issues:

           
            Best sequel is "Dawn". Ow! Who threw that? OK , I guess it's too soon to say that. So it would be "Escape". It stumbles sometimes in it's execution (the primitive gorilla, the zero budget) but not in it's script or it's acting. Powerful movie. And yes, the first POTA I ever saw.

          Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2014 5:31 AM
          To: POTA
          Subject: Re: [pota] Re: Different questions and issues:

           
          For me, the best sequel is by far Conquest. It took PotA to a really dark area. While it was most notable for the violence portrayed, it was also a pretty good story, with rich characters. Armando (greatly expanded from Escape), MacDonald, Breck, and even Kolp were great characters. The speech at the end (the edited longer version) was one hell of speech. Even the actual battles were well staged and it's thrilling as you watch Caesar command and control his new army. But the best part of the movie is that it gave us Caesar himself who in my books has always been the best portrayed movie ape beating out even the Zira, Zaius, Cornelius trio of the earlier movies.

          Full disclosure: Conquest was the first PotA movie I saw. And it was on the big screen as a double feature with Battle. This was shortly after Battle was released. Even as a kid back then I could see how much the budget and quality eroded from Conquest to Battle.

          Dario


          On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 7:35 AM, mlccougar@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
           
          Just wondering: Which of the sequels do you think is best? For me, BENEATH is the best sequel, ESCAPE and CONQUEST are tied, and then BATTLE comes in last...



          In a message dated 8/6/2014 5:59:48 AM Central Daylight Time, pota@yahoogroups.com writes:

          I have to agree. Beneath is not the classic that Planet was nor was it the best of the sequels. But it is a fun movie to watch at times and has some really good moments like Ursus' speech.



          <.html
          <.html
          Group: pota Message: 73344 From: monkeymermaid65 Date: 8/6/2014
          Subject: Prebootquel
          .html
          Attachments :

          For those who wonder if the new movie is a sequel, a prequal or a reboot, I found this shirt on eBay.

          <.html
          		  @@attachment@@
          Group: pota Message: 73345 From: Jeff K. Date: 8/6/2014
          Subject: OT: GEN(I)SYS
          .html
          .html
            In case you haven't heard, there's a "Terminator" reboot in the works for next year (starring Ah-nuld, who was going to star in a POTA reboot for most of the '90's). It's called "Terminator Genesis" but apparently it's spelled GENISYS. Of course the company that created NuPOTA was called GEN SYS. Does that mean we get a POTA/Terminator team-up down the road?
           
          <.html
          <.html
          Group: pota Message: 73346 From: haristas Date: 8/6/2014
          Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
          .html
           
            "Dawn" is a sequel to "Rise". Sequel is as sequel does.
           
           
           
          Ah, yes, so it is.  I need to reboot my previous comment.
          <.html
          Group: pota Message: 73347 From: Dario Sciola Date: 8/6/2014
          Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
          .html
          And "PotA is like a box pf chocolits. You never know what you're going to git."

          Forrest Dario


          On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 1:18 PM, Haristas@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

          "Dawn" is a sequel to "Rise". Sequel is as sequel does.
          Ah, yes, so it is. I need to reboot my previous comment.


          <.html
          Group: pota Message: 73348 From: Dario Sciola Date: 8/6/2014
          Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
          .html
          I'll give Escape this: It was a fantastic, raw and gutsy ending. But the movie really starts off as a light hearted comedy and only starts getting serious in the second half. Don't get me wrong I still enjoy this movie very much. In fact the manner in which it switches gears is one aspect that makes it so endearing to me.

          But I do think that it confuses a lot of people and could have been better had they played it more dramatically from the start. I guess they succumbed to the temptation of the comedy given the premise of talking apes suddenly arriving on Earth. But we all know that the comedic elements are not very realistic at all. If such a thing really happened the apes would not go around in a few limos across a city and just pop into stores to buy clothing. Nobody would be paying attention to a boxing match and totally ignoring an ape cringing in the crowd of onlookers. The apes wouldn't be held in a low security base where they could escape so easily as they did. It goes on from there.

          Dario


          On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 10:27 AM, 'Jeff K.' veetus@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

          Best sequel is "Dawn". Ow! Who threw that? OK , I guess it's too soon to say that. So it would be "Escape". It stumbles sometimes in it's execution (the primitive gorilla, the zero budget) but not in it's script or it's acting. Powerful movie. And yes, the first POTA I ever saw.

          Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2014 5:31 AM
          To: POTA
          Subject: Re: [pota] Re: Different questions and issues:

          For me, the best sequel is by far Conquest. It took PotA to a really dark area. While it was most notable for the violence portrayed, it was also a pretty good story, with rich characters. Armando (greatly expanded from Escape), MacDonald, Breck, and even Kolp were great characters. The speech at the end (the edited longer version) was one hell of speech. Even the actual battles were well staged and it's thrilling as you watch Caesar command and control his new army. But the best part of the movie is that it gave us Caesar himself who in my books has always been the best portrayed movie ape beating out even the Zira, Zaius, Cornelius trio of the earlier movies.

          Full disclosure: Conquest was the first PotA movie I saw. And it was on the big screen as a double feature with Battle. This was shortly after Battle was released. Even as a kid back then I could see how much the budget and quality eroded from Conquest to Battle.

          Dario


          On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 7:35 AM, mlccougar@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

          Just wondering: Which of the sequels do you think is best? For me, BENEATH is the best sequel, ESCAPE and CONQUEST are tied, and then BATTLE comes in last...



          In a message dated 8/6/2014 5:59:48 AM Central Daylight Time, pota@yahoogroups.com writes:

          I have to agree. Beneath is not the classic that Planet was nor was it the best of the sequels. But it is a fun movie to watch at times and has some really good moments like Ursus' speech.




          <.html
          Group: pota Message: 73349 From: Jeff K. Date: 8/6/2014
          Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
          .html
          .html
            You can poke holes in any of the sequels (or "Planet" for that matter). But "Escape" does well what it sets out to do. And the nice thing about only 3 apes is there isn't the pull over background masks. Yeah, there's the gorilla but just close your eyes for that sequence.
            I think the comedy is very relevant to the pop culture crazy world we live in. That's only become more relevant. It makes the ending even darker than it would've been if the apes had been in danger the whole movie.

          Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2014 11:04 AM
          To: POTA
          Subject: Re: [pota] Re: Different questions and issues:

           

          I'll give Escape this: It was a fantastic, raw and gutsy ending. But the movie really starts off as a light hearted comedy and only starts getting serious in the second half. Don't get me wrong I still enjoy this movie very much. In fact the manner in which it switches gears is one aspect that makes it so endearing to me.

          But I do think that it confuses a lot of people and could have been better had they played it more dramatically from the start. I guess they succumbed to the temptation of the comedy given the premise of talking apes suddenly arriving on Earth. But we all know that the comedic elements are not very realistic at all. If such a thing really happened the apes would not go around in a few limos across a city and just pop into stores to buy clothing. Nobody would be paying attention to a boxing match and totally ignoring an ape cringing in the crowd of onlookers. The apes wouldn't be held in a low security base where they could escape so easily as they did. It goes on from there.

          Dario


          On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 10:27 AM, 'Jeff K.' veetus@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
           

            Best sequel is "Dawn". Ow! Who threw that? OK , I guess it's too soon to say that. So it would be "Escape". It stumbles sometimes in it's execution (the primitive gorilla, the zero budget) but not in it's script or it's acting. Powerful movie. And yes, the first POTA I ever saw.

          Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2014 5:31 AM
          To: POTA
          Subject: Re: [pota] Re: Different questions and issues:

           

          For me, the best sequel is by far Conquest. It took PotA to a really dark area. While it was most notable for the violence portrayed, it was also a pretty good story, with rich characters. Armando (greatly expanded from Escape), MacDonald, Breck, and even Kolp were great characters. The speech at the end (the edited longer version) was one hell of speech. Even the actual battles were well staged and it's thrilling as you watch Caesar command and control his new army. But the best part of the movie is that it gave us Caesar himself who in my books has always been the best portrayed movie ape beating out even the Zira, Zaius, Cornelius trio of the earlier movies.

          Full disclosure: Conquest was the first PotA movie I saw. And it was on the big screen as a double feature with Battle. This was shortly after Battle was released. Even as a kid back then I could see how much the budget and quality eroded from Conquest to Battle.

          Dario


          On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 7:35 AM, mlccougar@... [pota] <pota@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
           

          Just wondering: Which of the sequels do you think is best? For me, BENEATH is the best sequel, ESCAPE and CONQUEST are tied, and then BATTLE comes in last...



          In a message dated 8/6/2014 5:59:48 AM Central Daylight Time, pota@yahoogroups.com writes:

          I have to agree. Beneath is not the classic that Planet was nor was it the best of the sequels. But it is a fun movie to watch at times and has some really good moments like Ursus' speech.




          <.html
          <.html
          Group: pota Message: 73350 From: monkeymermaid65 Date: 8/6/2014
          Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
          .html
          My dictionary app defines "sequel" as:  "a literary work, movie, etc., that  is complete in itself but continues the  narrative of a preceding  work." I would say "prequel" is a certain type of sequel that happens to places itself in a earlier time frame of a particular narrative. Like a sequel, a prequel is working with some of the same characters and ideas, and often is trying to address the same audience of a book, movie, etc. that has been previously released to the public. Since re-imaginings and reboots are also working with ideas and narratives of previously established works (and hoping to win the same audience), I would also call them different types of sequels. 
          If the above definition is believed to be true, that would bring to question: If someone were to successfully film the Pierre Boulle story, would that be considered a reimagined move? A reboot to win an already established fan base of a pre-existing set of films? Or is POTA68 be a type of sequel in itself? There are no other movies like it before, yet it is a re-imagination of a previously written novel.
          Of course a lot of movies get made that totally differ from their novel counterparts, and they are just called "movie versions" as apposed to "reimagined stories." Hollywood gives us "re-imagination," because it has "no imagination." 
          <.html
          Group: pota Message: 73351 From: jamesa1102 Date: 8/6/2014
          Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
          .html
          Escape is the best movie of the sequels. My favorite is Conquest though. I still like Beneath despite its problems because it is the only sequel to return to the world of the first movie.


          ---In pota@yahoogroups.com, <mlccougar@...> wrote :

          Just wondering: Which of the sequels do you think is best? For me, BENEATH is the best sequel, ESCAPE and CONQUEST are tied, and then BATTLE comes in last...



           


          <.html
          Group: pota Message: 73352 From: mlccougar Date: 8/7/2014
          Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
          .html
          .html.htmlThe old series is sequels, the new films are a rebooted franchise... You may argue that these new films will lead to a planet of the apes, but do we know to what extreme it'll be? Sure, it could end up being like it was in the original PLANET, but is there any guarantee it'll be the same as in the film? By that I mean it could be a world with apes on top and humanity down to brutes, but will their society be the same? Will the world have been ravaged by nuclear warfare with desert Forbidden Zones and a Lawgiver? Or is everything now going to be formed around a society that follows "The Caesar Dynasty"?" We don't know, I don't even think the film-makers really know at this point...

          So, until that last film of the new franchise is in place, and it's clearly set in the time of, climate of, and the society of the first film I don't think anybody can say with any certainty that they're leading up to "the" planet of the apes... Until I see concrete evidence showing otherwise, these films will forever be a rebooted franchise to me...


          In a message dated 8/6/2014 10:42:36 AM Central Daylight Time, pota@yahoogroups.com writes:

          You mean prequel.  The old franchise is sequels, the new is prequels.  Anyone who doesn't agree gets a reboot -- and you know where.


          <.html          <.html
          <.html
          Group: pota Message: 73353 From: mlccougar Date: 8/7/2014
          Subject: Re: Different questions and issues:
          .html
          .html.htmlNo matter how you slice it, wherever there are background masks in the APES films, they're noticeable... From PLANET's scene where Taylor is being pelted by the ape onlookers (and that's not the only instance) to the Ursus speech in BENEATH (again, not the only instance) to the downright horrible gorilla in ESCAPE and back to pull-overs in CONQUEST and BATTLE, any ape that isn't made up with appliances sticks out like sore thumb... BENEATH is not the only film to suffer from their use... I do agree with you that they really should NOT have focused the camera on them in BENEATH, there's no disagreeing with that, but even in PLANET, they're highly noticeable even when a bit more in the background...

          I'll have to look closer at the "neglected" city, I never really noticed (or paid attention anyway) to the stuff you brought up... Maybe it was lack of attention to detail, or maybe they just didn't give it any thought since the first film would have been filmed a year and a half earlier (they might not have remembered how it looked when it was all shiny and new...) I guess I never gave it any thought, I'm just glad the city was still standing at all so they were able to use it because it's quite apparent had it not been, it wouldn't have been rebuilt, at least not to the extent it was built in PLANET...






          In a message dated 8/6/2014 10:41:26 AM Central Daylight Time, pota@yahoogroups.com writes:

          My thoughts exactly, Ursus is an interesting character, but as you watch the speech, background masks everywhere.  Couldn't they at least place all the background masks IN THE BACKGROUND, not interspersed with the real appliance makeup.  And apparently all of the maintenance apes and groundskeepers in Ape City were fired because there are weeds and overgrowth everywhere , even on the bridge across the lake, and the three pine trees in town are now completely dead and still standing there, making it obvious that the crew just showed up on set and started filming, forget any attention to detail.

           

          And another pet peeve, in PLANET, Zira is almost obsessed with finding out about Taylor and where he came from, yet when Brent shows up at her door, its like, oh, another speaking human astronaut, well, let me get him changed into human clothing I happen to keep in my spare bedroom, and get him out the door as soon as possible, I have a chocolate cake to get back to.  Lame.

           

          I wouldn't call it hatred, more like extreme disappointment for what could have been.  ESCAPE is my favorite sequel, I don't really care for the others.




          ---In pota@yahoogroups.com, <Haristas@...> wrote :


          Unfortunately for nearly everything that could be enjoyed there's something that spoils it.  The Ursus' speech is a nice scene, but all the background masks and the neglected Ape Town set and stagnate lake water distract to the point of annoyance now and there were weather problems during production, so some shots are overcast, others not.  Also, James Franciscus delivering the line, "My God, it a city of apes!"  Lame.







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