That's pretty much what I was TRYING to say Hunter, but what you said
and the way you said it makes more sense - thanks!

BUT, with me being rather prejudiced against POTA 2001 and my blaming it
for EVERYTHING wrong with the world, I like my statement better! ;)

Michael

>
> ----------
> From: Hunter Goatley[SMTP:GOATHUNTER@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 4:28:36 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Collector Selling Up!
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>
> The same holds true for Star trek and other shows, the less popular

shows
do

> not affect the sale of the more collectable or original stuff. Blaming

pota

> 2001 for low sales of original pota merchandise is like saying the

sale of

> apples affects the sale of pina coladas. Elaine

I suspect what happened was this: in *anticipation* of the POTA market
increasing when POTA2001 came out, prices for older POTA merchandise
shot up higher ("With the new interest, I'm sure this X that I buy
will be worth more later!"). When the movie didn't do as well, people
found that that anticipated market never appeared, and prices have
gone down as a result. I don't think it's right to blame POTA2001
itself, but rather the sellers and buyers who expected renewed
interest (and willingness to pay more) because the new movie was
coming. I've been eBaying since '98 or '99, and most of my first
purchases were Apes items. I watched the auctions steadily increase
in starting bids and ending prices as the new movie approached.
Carded Megos that sold for $80 in '99 sold for $130 or more in 2001.
Now we're seeing the downside of that, and prices are going back to
more reasonable levels, in general.

Hunter

You've actually tried to "like it less"? Well it looks like you hit
rock bottom with it and the only place to go is up. That's
encouraging.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> OK - I get myself in trouble when I answer this question because:
>
> (1) people who like POTA2001 get offended by what I say; and
>
> (2) people have a strange conception that collectors are not
allowed to
>...blah blah blah...
>
> That does NOT mean YOU should like it any LESS!!
>
> I have tried to like it less, but it is impossible! ;)
>
> Michael
>
>

Hunter, you definitely rock!

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> Hunter,
>
> I'm sure it will be worth the wait and I thank you for the hard
work I
>...blah blah blah...
> Oh - and feel free to remind Hunter he ROCKS too! ;)
>
> Michael
>
>
> >

But maybe if they had dog brains, they'd be more fun.

What do you suppose an ape would say if it COULD talk?

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, taebokitti@a... wrote:
> My cats are already smarter than most people, they wouldn't need
genetic
> enhancement. Elaine

After months of promising they'd get done, I'm quite relieved to
report that, after one seriously long weekend of work, I have
completed the "Return to the Planet of the Apes" DVDs.  Information on
how you can get copies will be posted here next week (after the
Thanksgiving holiday here in the States).  Please do not post here or
send me mail asking how you can get them---that information will be
forthcoming.  But I wanted to let you know that they have been
finished and will be coming soon to a DVD player near you.  More
information next week....

Hunter

---

Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.

Yeah - that was me being sarcastic!

But really, I went and saw that movie about 4 or 5 times to try to
let it grow on me and I had no luck at all.

Oh boy, do I have some passionate negative feelings for that movie!
I feel betrayed! ;)

But as I have said many times before I do nnot respect anyone any
less for liking it, I am actually quite jealous that they COULD like
it!

Michael

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "John O." <jspy@w...> wrote:
>
> You've actually tried to "like it less"? Well it looks like you
hit
> rock bottom with it and the only place to go is up. That's
> encouraging.
>
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...>
wrote:
> > OK - I get myself in trouble when I answer this question because:
> >
> > (1) people who like POTA2001 get offended by what I say; and
> >
> > (2) people have a strange conception that collectors are not
> allowed to
> >...blah blah blah...
> >
> > That does NOT mean YOU should like it any LESS!!
> >
> > I have tried to like it less, but it is impossible! ;)
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >

I think the ape would say "Humans totally suk. Leave us alone and
let us swing from the trees in peace."

Michael

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "John O." <jspy@w...> wrote:
>
> But maybe if they had dog brains, they'd be more fun.
>
> What do you suppose an ape would say if it COULD talk?
>
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, taebokitti@a... wrote:
> > My cats are already smarter than most people, they wouldn't need
> genetic
> > enhancement. Elaine

G'day Charlie.

I suspect they will be LOTS better than what I supplied you with, if
I know Hunter.

He has gone to great lengths to find the very best quality versions
around and (I think?) they are also complete while other versions
have bits cut out of them. Hunter probably fixed up the sound a bit
too.

And the Extended Battle DVD Hunter did had some great looking menus.

Now I'll shut up and let Hunter answer the question.

Michael

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, charlton burton <charburn65@y...>
wrote:

> hi.are these dvds going to be better than the ones i alredy got

from Michael? are they only going to be ntsc and if so will anyone
be changing them to pal?

> thanx
> charlie
>
> Hunter Goatley <goathunter@g...> wrote:
> After months of promising they'd get done, I'm quite relieved to
> report that, after one seriously long weekend of work, I have
> completed the "Return to the Planet of the Apes" DVDs.

Information on

> how you can get copies will be posted here next week (after the
> Thanksgiving holiday here in the States). Please do not post here

or

> send me mail asking how you can get them---that information will be
> forthcoming. But I wanted to let you know that they have been
> finished and will be coming soon to a DVD player near you. More
> information next week....
>
> Hunter

OK Neil, now you are scaring me!

You have had a different home page picture nearly every day for the
last few days, and now I see our friend (and fugitive) Galen (or is
it?) playing some tunes!

What's going on Neil?

I am about to move to my keyboard to play the line of music included
there too - what will I find? ;)

Here's the link to see the home page picture:

http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG

Michael

.html

In a message dated 11/22/2004 11:31:07 P.M. Central Standard Time, taebokitti@... writes:

The quality of the original action figures is much better than the pota 2001 figures

 

Speaking of which...anyone have a release date on the 12' figures?

<.html

.html

Ah ha!  Now, see!

It lameness does rub off!

<.html

Sideshow?

I believe the first Dr. Zaius is expected to arrive any day.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 11/22/2004 11:31:07 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> taebokitti@a... writes:
>
> The quality of the original action figures is much better than the
pota 2001
> figures
>
>
>
> Speaking of which...anyone have a release date on the 12' figures?

.html

In a message dated 11/23/2004 5:03:56 A.M. Central Standard Time, sand_hill_school@... writes:

I believe the first Dr. Zaius is expected to arrive any day.

 

Regular Zaius or special edition Zaius?

<.html

Regular

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 11/23/2004 5:03:56 A.M. Central Standard Time,
> sand_hill_school@y... writes:
>
> I believe the first Dr. Zaius is expected to arrive any day.
>
>
>
>
> Regular Zaius or special edition Zaius?

I love this one, Neil. Thanks.

http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/

I don't recognize it. Did you figure it out? c/mon. Is this an
inside joke?


--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <Michael.Whitty@d...>
wrote:

>
> I am about to move to my keyboard to play the line of music

included

> there too - what will I find? ;)
>
> Here's the link to see the home page picture:
>
> http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG
>
> Michael

> He has gone to great lengths to find the very best quality versions
> around and (I think?) they are also complete while other versions
> have bits cut out of them. Hunter probably fixed up the sound a bit
> too.

I've been amazed by the quality of these episodes. I looked at
sources from at least six people, and most of them (including a couple
that people had bought off eBay) were virtually unwatchable---they
were very dark and/or many generations removed. Greg P. had some
good-looking tapes of a Sci-Fi Channel broadcast, but those were
edited. Mike Rogers supplied me with tapes containing all 13 episodes
that look really good *and* are unedited (one episode is missing a few
seconds at the beginning of a scene after a commercial break---I was
going to patch it with Greg P.'s source, only to find that the entire
scene had been edited out for the Sci-Fi broadcast).

The episodes were never really clean, and the broadcast Mike recorded
is far from pristine. But I can say that out of all the sources that
I was able to see, none were close to these quality-wise.

> And the Extended Battle DVD Hunter did had some great looking menus.

Thanks. Screenshots of the menus and episodes will be available on
the web sometime early next week.

And these are NTSC DVDs. I don't plan to do a PAL conversion.

Hunter

Rob/Ron, is it the ethics or the research?

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, ron kenner <brindlepit2002@y...>
wrote:
> thank you; bio-ethical concerns are always fascinating.
> 
> and i rememebr reading in starlog magazine that the original
script for beneath had a human/ape hybrid.
> 
> rob/ron
>

go vegetarian!

.html It's the blame game routine again in western society. If original pota stuff doesn't sell at outragously high prices, it must be pota 2001 fault. Thade would probably say that's typical human mentality. Elaine<.html

.html I like your statement that pota 2001 is responsible for everything wrong with the world. I feel a fanfic coming on. Elaine<.html

.html If an ape could talk she would say get me out of here and back to the jungle. Elaine<.html

What's the difference between regular and special edition Zaius?

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 11/23/2004 5:03:56 A.M. Central Standard Time,
> sand_hill_school@y... writes:
>
> I believe the first Dr. Zaius is expected to arrive any day.
>
>
>
>
> Regular Zaius or special edition Zaius?

Great, now we get to blame western society.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, taebokitti@a... wrote:
> It's the blame game routine again in western society. If original
pota stuff
> doesn't sell at outragously high prices, it must be pota 2001
fault. Thade
> would probably say that's typical human mentality. Elaine

Neil,

I just want to say this and the next few Chapters of Within are some of
the most exciting I have ever seen.

Plus, everyone may feel free to speculate on the significance and
identity of a Chief of Security!

Michael

-- Yet another great chapter kasey, thanks for sharing with us. I
hope everyone is reading this this story!

Neil

What - you didn't realise this? ;)

Michael

>
> ----------
> From: taebokitti@...[SMTP:TAEBOKITTI@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 4:30:05 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Collector Selling Up!
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

I like your statement that pota 2001 is responsible for everything wrong
with the world.

Well then you don't win a copy of Beware the Beast!

Wait..... ;)

Michael

>
> ----------
> From: Greg Plonowski[SMTP:URKO3085@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 24, 2004 5:30:20 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Within the Planet of the Apes Chapter9
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

Well, so much for my theory that this story takes place in the Return
universe, now that we've gotten a glimpse of Ape City (or is that
Central
City?).

Hmm. Urko was the only character known as Chief of Security. Ursus was
addressed as General, although they seem to have had the same basic job,
so
the titles could have been interchangeable.

I'm not going to speculate further at this point, since my last guess of
where things were going was so spectacularly wrong, but I'm enjoying the
strip and can't wait for the next installment.

Greg P.

Michael Whitty <whitty@...> wrote:

Neil,

I just want to say this and the next few Chapters of Within are some of
the most exciting I have ever seen.

Plus, everyone may feel free to speculate on the significance and
identity of a Chief of Security!

Michael

Nope - and I played the tune but I don't recognise it!

Michael

>
> ----------
> From: ape_mom[SMTP:SAND_HILL_SCHOOL@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 11:12:18 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Home Page Picture
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

I don't recognize it. Did you figure it out? c/mon. Is this an
inside joke?

.html

I think the review on Film Threat sums up why the stink of this film taints the original.

 

Film Threat - Reviews

 

 

<.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:

> Nope - and I played the tune but I don't recognise it!

-- A couple of explanations. This picture was the one used for the
Simian Sounds logo on the Values audio CD and I just wanted to do
something with it that used the whole picture.

As for the tune, yes the notes are from a real song. They are from
the very first part of the song so it will probably be impossible to
work out just from them. I won't reveal it just yet, so... name that
tune!
Only hint is that it is the title track from a movie from the early
seventies that was a big hit for the artist who was also a member of
a different band in the sixties.

Neil

.html Okay, now I feel kinda.... how would you put it... dumb? I don't think that question even entered my brain or the person that co-writes with me. I guess this proves how differently men and women think. No wonder apes should be allowed to take over the world... Thanks for the comment though.
 
Kasey 
 
--- Greg Plonowski <urko3085@...> wrote:
 
From: Greg Plonowski <urko3085@...>
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 10:52:23 -0800 (PST)
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] The Stranger - Chapter 10

Yes, I particularly enjoyed this chapter as well as chapter 9 (the story seemed to slow down a bit in chapters 7 and 8 and I've been waiting for either Alan or Pete to ask Christine a very simple question: What year was it when her ship departed?) Can't wait for the next chapter.

 

Greg

Neil <nfoster@...> wrote:

-- Yet another great chapter kasey, thanks for sharing with us. I
hope everyone is reading this this story!

Neil

<.html

.html.html Thank you for your order of the 12" Dr Zaius Sideshow Exclusive (item# 75011) from our Planet of the Apes Collection. We appreciate your patience waiting for the arrival of this pre-ordered item and would like to inform you that the statue will be arriving in our Los Angeles warehouse within the next 7 days.



<.html<.html

Okay, now I feel kinda.... how would you put it... dumb? I don't think that question even entered my brain or the person that co-writes with me. I guess this proves how differently men and women think. No wonder apes should be allowed to take over the world... Thanks for the comment though.
 
Kasey 

.html

Actually, as I was going over the story last night I realized that... okay that would give it away. But the next chapter should kind of finalize some things that might not have been in previous chapters. Oh, and even though there is only one more chapter nothing ends here. You'll have to wait for the sequal, which should be finished in a couple weeks.

I didn't really feel 'dumb' just kind of unobservant. But it was a good thing to point out. Thanks for commenting again though. Hopefully everyone else is enjoying this story and trying to figure out what is going on.
 
Kasey

--- Greg Plonowski <urko3085@...> wrote:
 
From: Greg Plonowski <urko3085@...>
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 09:42:29 -0800 (PST)
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] The Stranger - Chapter 10

Okay, now I feel kinda.... how would you put it... dumb? I don't think that question even entered my brain or the person that co-writes with me. I guess this proves how differently men and women think. No wonder apes should be allowed to take over the world... Thanks for the comment though.
 
Kasey 

<.html

Ever notice that they flipped the image of the #6 POTA movie card?
Yeah okay, whatever.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Kasey Taylor Cooper <elfgirl_06@c...>
wrote:

> Okay, now I feel kinda.... how would you put it... dumb? I don't

think that question even entered my brain or the person that co-
writes with me. I guess this proves how differently men and women
think. No wonder apes should be allowed to take over the world...
Thanks for the comment though.

-- I wouldn't worry too much about it Kasey, after all this is
Planet of the Apes stuff and it wouldn't be 'Apes' if there weren't
little things wrong for the fans to disect would it! ;-)

Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Greg Plonowski <urko3085@s...> wrote:

>I'm not going to speculate further at this point, since my last

guess of where things were going was so spectacularly wrong, but I'm
enjoying the strip and can't wait for the next installment.

-- Awww Greg that's not fair, you were giving us such great ideas
for future stories with your guesses!

Neil

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the PotaDG
group.

File : /sideshow dr zaius.jpg
Uploaded by : munkeyman63au <nfoster@...>
Description : both versions of Dr Zaius figure

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/files/sideshow%20%20dr%20zaius.jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

munkeyman63au <nfoster@...>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "John O." <jspy@w...> wrote:

> What's the difference between regular and special edition Zaius?

-- John I have just uploaded a picture (sideshow dr zaius.jpg) to
the files section with both versions so you can check out the
difference between them.

Neil

I just caught up with the comic. I'm enjoying this style, Neil--
it's relaxed and yet still your usual top-quality. LOVED the Monkees
album and the picture of the orangutan, Mike - great ideas! Can't
wait to see the Chief of Security--will this be a new ape, or one
named Ursus? I suppose he WILL be a gorilla?
Good stuff guys--
Kassidy

Cool. Thanks Neil. Now... at what times did he wear each of those
outfits?

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Neil" <nfoster@h...> wrote:
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "John O." <jspy@w...> wrote:
> > What's the difference between regular and special edition Zaius?
>
> -- John I have just uploaded a picture (sideshow dr zaius.jpg) to
> the files section with both versions so you can check out the
> difference between them.
>
> Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Kassidy Rae" <valwp@y...> wrote:

>I just caught up with the comic. I'm enjoying this style, Neil--

it's relaxed and yet still your usual top-quality. LOVED the
Monkees album and the picture of the orangutan, Mike - great ideas!
Can't wait to see the Chief of Security--will this be a new ape, or
one named Ursus? I suppose he WILL be a gorilla? Good stuff guys--

-- Thanks for the very kind words Kass, as for who the C.o.S. is,
all will be revealed soon.
There are plenty of twists and turns planned for future chapters!

Neil

Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
PotaDG group:

Andrew Lloyd Webber has done it
finally,like on the Simpsons he has
created a musical stage production of
pota. What should this musical be a
production of?

o the original film
o Beneath the Planet of the Apes
o Escape From the Planet of the Apes
o Conquest of the Planet of the Apes
o Battle for the planet of the Apes
o Planet of the Apes 2001
o the TV Show
o return to the Planet of the apes, the cartoon
o a new story


To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/surveys?id=1584847

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!

I sure am Kasey!

We "hard core" fans often miss seemingly obvious things too - as did the writers of the TV Shows and movies - so you are in good company my friend!

Michael - from Sydney!

--------- Original Message --------
From: "Whitty, Michael" <Michael.Whitty@...>
To: "whitty@..." <whitty@...>
Subject: {Spam?} FW: [PotaDG] The Stranger - Chapter 10
Date: 25/11/04 18:58


>
> ----------
> From: Kasey Taylor Cooper[SMTP:ELFGIRL_06@...]
> Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2004 7:54:18 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] The Stranger - Chapter 10
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>
Actually, as I was going over the story last night I realized that... okay
that would give it away. But the next chapter should kind of finalize some
things that might not have been in previous chapters. Oh, and even though
there is only one more chapter nothing ends here. You'll have to wait for
the sequal, which should be finished in a couple weeks.

I didn't really feel 'dumb' just kind of unobservant. But it was a good
thing to point out. Thanks for commenting again though. Hopefully everyone
else is enjoying this story and trying to figure out what is going on.

Kasey


--- Greg Plonowski <urko3085@...> wrote:

From: Greg Plonowski <urko3085@...>
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 09:42:29 -0800 (PST)
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] The Stranger - Chapter 10



Kasey:

It wasn't my intention to make you feel dumb. I was actually thinking that
you were deliberately avoiding having Alan and Pete ask the question because
it ties into the resolution of the story. The fact that Christine has not
heard of NASA, that she was a passenger on the space vessel, and that she
seemed to view Galen as some sort of pet (a talking pet, but a pet
nonetheless) indicated to me that she is from a time well after Alan and
Pete's. Either that or she's from a parallel dimension.

Now that I know Christine's date of departure isn't a story point I'm even
more anxious to get to the end and see how this all gets resolved (although
I still hope you reveal what year she's from before we get to the end.)

Greg P.

Kasey Taylor Cooper <elfgirl_06@...> wrote:

Okay, now I feel kinda.... how would you put it... dumb? I don't think that
question even entered my brain or the person that co-writes with me. I guess
this proves how differently men and women think. No wonder apes should be
allowed to take over the world... Thanks for the comment though.

Kasey

Live and Let Die?

Anthony

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Neil" <nfoster@h...> wrote:
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > Nope - and I played the tune but I don't recognise it!
>
> -- A couple of explanations. This picture was the one used for the
> Simian Sounds logo on the Values audio CD and I just wanted to do
> something with it that used the whole picture.
>
> As for the tune, yes the notes are from a real song. They are from
> the very first part of the song so it will probably be impossible to
> work out just from them. I won't reveal it just yet, so... name that
> tune!
> Only hint is that it is the title track from a movie from the early
> seventies that was a big hit for the artist who was also a member of
> a different band in the sixties.
>
> Neil

"When you were young, and your heart was an open book
You used to say 'Live and Let Live'"
But if this ever changing world in which we live in
Makes you give in and sigh....."

Well done ANthony - do you like the new comic?

Michael

-- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "abmac40" <abmac@i...> wrote:

>
> Live and Let Die?
>
> Anthony
>
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Neil" <nfoster@h...> wrote:
> >
> > --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...>

wrote:

> > > Nope - and I played the tune but I don't recognise it!
> >
> > -- A couple of explanations. This picture was the one used for

the

> > Simian Sounds logo on the Values audio CD and I just wanted to

do

> > something with it that used the whole picture.
> >
> > As for the tune, yes the notes are from a real song. They are

from

> > the very first part of the song so it will probably be

impossible to

> > work out just from them. I won't reveal it just yet, so... name

that

> > tune!
> > Only hint is that it is the title track from a movie from the

early

> > seventies that was a big hit for the artist who was also a

member of

> > a different band in the sixties.
> >
> > Neil

Live and Let Die?

On Nov 23, 2004, at 5:09 PM, Neil wrote:

>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > Nope - and I played the tune but I don't recognise it!
>
> -- A couple of explanations. This picture was the one used for the
> Simian Sounds logo on the Values audio CD and I just wanted to do
> something with it that used the whole picture.
>
> As for the tune, yes the notes are from a real song. They are from
> the very first part of the song so it will probably be impossible to
> work out just from them. I won't reveal it just yet, so... name that
> tune!
> Only hint is that it is the title track from a movie from the early
> seventies that was a big hit for the artist who was also a member of
> a different band in the sixties.
>
> Neil

>Message: 8
> Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 08:32:34 -0600 (CST)
> From: Hunter Goatley <goathunter@...>
>Subject: Re: Re: "Return" DVDs completed
>
> > He has gone to great lengths to find the very best quality versions
> > around and (I think?) they are also complete while other versions
> > have bits cut out of them. Hunter probably fixed up the sound a bit
> > too.
>
>I've been amazed by the quality of these episodes. I looked at
>sources from at least six people, and most of them (including a couple
>that people had bought off eBay) were virtually unwatchable---they
>were very dark and/or many generations removed. Greg P. had some
>good-looking tapes of a Sci-Fi Channel broadcast, but those were
>edited. Mike Rogers supplied me with tapes containing all 13 episodes
>that look really good *and* are unedited (one episode is missing a few
>seconds at the beginning of a scene after a commercial break---I was
>going to patch it with Greg P.'s source, only to find that the entire
>scene had been edited out for the Sci-Fi broadcast).
>
>The episodes were never really clean, and the broadcast Mike recorded
>is far from pristine. But I can say that out of all the sources that
>I was able to see, none were close to these quality-wise.
>

Another thing to expect are breaks in segments where WPIX inserted
commercial breaks beyond the ones that were originally in the show. it
usually results in less than a second of black and a brief break in the
soundtrack. Pretty harmless. I was glad to provide something better than the
edited and logo in the bottom corner Sci-Fi channel versions. the really
important thing is that the color and contrast of these broadcasts were
pretty good.

Please excuse that last duplicate post. My ISP has been acting up lately.

Thanks, Michael. I played bass in a Beatles cover band for several years in the late '80s, so
I know the song well.

I'm quite enjoying the new comic. Neil's artwork is stunning, as always, and the rougher
style gets the message through without weighing it down with superfluous details. I
eagerly await future installments.

I apologize for my recent lack of participation. I'm having difficulty keeping up with the
volume of messages coming from the mailing list. By the time I get to most of them, it's
too late to comment without looking foolish.

Has anyone suggested moving to a bulletin board type forum? I find that format much
easier to read and follow. ProBoards.com has a nice free one that's easy to set up and
maintain. My friend, Brian (palitoy01), runs a very successful one for the Mego community,
but it's an older Ikonboard forum that appears to be heavily modified.

Anthony

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <Michael.Whitty@d...> wrote:
>
> "When you were young, and your heart was an open book
> You used to say 'Live and Let Live'"
> But if this ever changing world in which we live in
> Makes you give in and sigh....."
>
> Well done ANthony - do you like the new comic?
>
> Michael
>
> -- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "abmac40" <abmac@i...> wrote:
> >
> > Live and Let Die?
> >
> > Anthony
> >
> >
> > --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Neil" <nfoster@h...> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...>
> wrote:
> > > > Nope - and I played the tune but I don't recognise it!
> > >
> > > -- A couple of explanations. This picture was the one used for
> the
> > > Simian Sounds logo on the Values audio CD and I just wanted to
> do
> > > something with it that used the whole picture.
> > >
> > > As for the tune, yes the notes are from a real song. They are
> from
> > > the very first part of the song so it will probably be
> impossible to
> > > work out just from them. I won't reveal it just yet, so... name
> that
> > > tune!
> > > Only hint is that it is the title track from a movie from the
> early
> > > seventies that was a big hit for the artist who was also a
> member of
> > > a different band in the sixties.
> > >
> > > Neil

.html

How many Dirty Stnikin' Apes does it take to screw in a light bulb?

Three!  One Dirty Stinkin' Ape to screw in the light bulb and Two

Dirty Stinkin' Apes to throw Feces at each other!

 

                            ~~~Peter Griffin from Family Guy~~~~

 

 

 

<.html

.html

Birthday Reminder from the Calendar of PotaDG Ricardo Montalban's Birthday Thursday November 25, 2004 All Day This event repeats every year. Notes: Happy Birthday Ricardo! Yahoo! Greetings Send a Yahoo! Birthday Greeting. Find Birthday Gifts Browse Yahoo! Shopping's Gift Guide

Copyright ©  2004  Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved.

.html<.html<.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "abmac40" <abmac@i...> wrote:

> Live and Let Die?

-- Impressive Anthony!

Neil

.html

In a message dated 11/23/2004 12:15:57 P.M. Central Standard Time, jspy@... writes:

What's the difference between regular and special edition Zaius?

I'm not sure, a better coat maybe.

They said they had pre-sold out

of regular Zaius or the were offering

a special edition Zaius.  Didn't they?

<.html

Not 100% sure T, could someone in the know please fill us in?

My guess is costumes and accessories are different.

Michael

> From: LordTZer0@...[SMTP:LORDTZER0@...]
> Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 6:16:03 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Collector Selling Up!
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

In a message dated 11/23/2004 12:15:57 P.M. Central Standard Time,
jspy@... writes:

What's the difference between regular and special edition Zaius?

I'm not sure, a better coat maybe. They said they had pre-sold out of
regular Zaius or the were offering a special edition Zaius. Didn't
they?

I don't know for sure, either. There is a different costume and there
are different accessories. The face looks the same to me, though...
as if the doll is the same. Does anyone here know if it is the same
doll?

There is a HUGE difference in the regular and exclusive Taylor
dolls. I actually like the exclusive version and put in an order for
that one.

--Helen

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> Not 100% sure T, could someone in the know please fill us in?
>
> My guess is costumes and accessories are different.
>
> Michael
>
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:

> Not 100% sure T, could someone in the know please fill us in?

My guess is costumes and accessories are different.

-- Well the costumes are definitely different. I uploaded a picture
yesterday (sideshow dr zaius.jpg) to the files section that shows
them both.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/files/sideshow%20%20dr%
20zaius.jpg>

Neil

.html.html In a message dated 11/25/04 3:56:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

What's the difference between regular and special edition Zaius?

The regular edition is Dr. Zaius in his Chief Defender of the Faith coat, pants and shoes, and the special limited edition is him in his expeditionary "man hunt" outfit seen at the end of PLANET.

For the sake of completeness Sideshow will have to do Dr. Zaius' third outfit, the more glyph attired expeditionary outfit from BENEATH.

-- Rory

<.html<.html

Michael, a little while ago you mentioned something about a new set
of cards being proposed by Rittenhouse. Any further news on this yet?

Neil

I was looking through Apes pictures for reference purposes and found
something that struck me as a bit odd.
Zira and Cornelius have those glyphs on their tunics that I'd only
seen on them and other chimps but then I noticed that this very same
glyph also appears on the Lawgiver statue.

So I had a bit of a look around at other pictures to see if any
other glyphs were repeated anywhere else but couldn't find any
myself.

Does any one know of any others? Or if not, have a theory why just
this one glyph is repeated? Maybe it has some significant meaning
but why then is it only seemingly, apart from the Lawgiver statue,
a chimp thing?

Neil

There is a coincidenca in the funeral scene, I´ve found Gorilla boy
have a horizontal glyph mirror image from the vertical minister one.

Ape rule in Spain too.

JR

Hello All -- MT-B here.

Yep, been away for ages. Work, work, work.

Massive apologies for my absence (particularly to you, Mr. Whitty!).

I've NO IDEA what the current conversations are about. If I'm to
avoid reading through 2,000 past posts -- can someone bring me up to
date?

Also, as a (kind of) apology, I've posted a little thing in the
files section under "MT-B's favourite still". I love this pic so
much and it's a sort of personal tribute to BTB... from me. (I spent
a while cleaning it up in Photoshop...)

Make it your desktop pic!

All the Best,

Mark.

To All --

Just having a quick bash through the Evolution Box Set -- looking at
all my favourite scenes from all of the five films.

Bloody Hell! (as we say in the UK) ... if you haven't ACTUALLY
LOOKED at these movies for a while, you'll forget how good they
really are. AND THEY ARE REALLY GOOD.

The problem with being busy in fandom (and "the like") is that you
can sometimes forget where you came from. If you ain't been there
for a while, throw the disks into your DVD player, relax, and have a
look at those five movies.

I just did. And they're REALLY good. REALLY GOOD.

Oh well... That's what I did on my first evening off in four
months. ;)

Love and Best Wishes to All,

Mark.

I agree Mark....The other night I watched Planet with
two friends on their big ass widescreen HDTV surround
sound and I was blown away.....the score thundered
around me especially that first blare in the
titles.....and I noticed (not sure if this was
discussed before) a very large skull of some sort in
the museum. COuld it be from the same creature that
the "claw" is from....or is the Claw just
sculpture......That's a hell of a big skull.....please
say it's not the Monster Bird from return!!!!!

Incidentally one of my friends had never seen film
and she said she thought about it all the next day and
liked it a lot.

Tim



--- sparkytb2005 <sparkytb@...> wrote:

... if you

> haven't ACTUALLY
> LOOKED at these movies for a while, you'll forget
> how good they
> really are. AND THEY ARE REALLY GOOD.
>

__________________________________

.html.html In a message dated 11/25/2004 7:43:53 PM Central Standard Time, apefan23@... writes:

I noticed a very large skull of some sort in the museum. Could it be from the same creature that the "claw" is from....or is the Claw just sculpture......That's a hell of a big skull.....

Where exactly is this skull?

<.html <.html

PotaDG wrote:

>>Birthday Reminder from the Calendar of PotaDG
>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/cal

>>Ricardo Montalban's Birthday
>>Thursday November 25, 2004
>>All Day
>>(This event repeats every year.)

Often the case with birthdays, repeating every year...


Chris L.

you can see it in the wide shot of the museum I
believe just as Quentin and his mother walk by...it's
on the floor to the right under the ramp...looks like
a large animal skull to me.....can somebody capture
it?

Tim

--- mlccougar@... wrote:

> In a message dated 11/25/2004 7:43:53 PM Central
> Standard Time,
> apefan23@... writes:
>
> > I noticed a very large skull of some sort in the
> museum. Could it be from
> > the same creature that the "claw" is from....or is
> the Claw just
> > sculpture......That's a hell of a big skull.....
>
> Where exactly is this skull?
>

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Michael Whitty

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 1:56 PM

Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Calling Jeff K

You have the larger ones from memory?

There are also smaller figures and as I recall these are the ones Jeff
is trying to get a checklist for in particular.

Michael

>
> ----------
> From:       taebokitti@...[SMTP:TAEBOKITTI@...]
> Sent:       Sunday, November 21, 2004 5:49:42 AM
> To:       PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject:       Re: [PotaDG] Calling Jeff K
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>
Yes, I like the jun planing figures. I have three of them, Thade, Krull
and
Limbo. I bought them off of ebay awhile ago. I haven't seen any since.
Elaine

<.html

I used to know Sauseville around the time of the book. I gave him a photo
of John Chambers holding his book. But Sauseville kind of disappeared. - - -
Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Whitty" <Michael.Whitty@...>
To: <PotaDG@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 2:33 PM
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Collector Selling Up!


>
>
> Not sure of the reasons.
>
> I think Jeff K knows him.
>
> Michael
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Tim \"apefan\"" <apefan23@y...>
> wrote:
> > Maybe he's selling thing he has doubles of...Does
> > anyone actually know him?
> >
> > Tim
> >
> > --- LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 11/20/2004 7:15:18 AM Central
> > > Standard Time,
> > > whitty@c... writes:
> > >
> > > Anybody else here notice that Chris Sauseville is
> > > selling up his POTA
> > > collection on eBay?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yeah I think it's a bad idea. Maybe he needs the
> > > money,
> > > but he should wait for the economy to pick up more
> > > after
> > > the first of the year. Not only that but everyone
> > > will be
> > > spending all their disposable income on Christmas
> > > presents, so unless they're buying them for someone
> > > else's, which is unlikely, he's not going to get top
> > > bids.
> > > That and it's just uncool. His wife must have put
> > > her
> > > foot down about her sewing room or something.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Neil

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2004 4:40 PM

Subject: [PotaDG] Re: More Icarus (size/landing)

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "John O." <jspy@w...> wrote:
> Also, this site suggests that the ship had a controlled landing.
That doesn't mean it was supposed to land like that, does it? 
Unless they mean "attempted controlled emergency landing", but this
can't be the way the ship is supposed to land, especially when it
ends up killing one of the astronauts!

-- Yeah, it has always amazed me that in all the Apes movies only
the chimp in the 2001 version was able to successfully land a space
craft without destroying it! ;-)
 
>What's the general speculation on this?  Is it that Burke was
piloting when something went wrong (landing gear, thrusters, etc),
tried to land it the best he could, they got banged around when it
hit the ground and ended up killing Jones?

--Weren't they all unconscious when it landed? I thought one of them
hit an automatic homing switch or some such thing?

Neil

<.html

.html I think I paid around $30 each for the jun Planing figures from ebay. Elaine<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: taebokitti@...

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 9:18 PM

Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Collector Selling Up!

The quality of the original action figures is much better than the pota 2001 figures(megos and medicom). I don't think pota 2001 has any effect on the purchasing of pota stuff, the economy probably has more influence. Before ebay and the internet, I noticed that prices were much higher on all sci-fi merchandise at conventions. Elaine

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 1:47 AM

Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Collector Selling Up!

In a message dated 11/22/2004 11:31:07 P.M. Central Standard Time, taebokitti@... writes:

The quality of the original action figures is much better than the pota 2001 figures

 

Speaking of which...anyone have a release date on the 12' figures?

<.html

Thanks to the efforts of Greg P., issue 6 of the Marvel UK comic is
now available for download in PDF format:

http://www.goatley.com/pota/

Look for issue 7 next weekend!

Hunter

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: taebokitti@...

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 10:49 AM

Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Calling Jeff K

I think I paid around $30 each for the jun Planing figures from ebay. Elaine

<.html

I was going to sit down today and read "The Stranger" since I hadn't caiught
any of it before....so I downloaded all the chapters but my Excel cannot open
the first two ....are they posted anywhere in Word? Looking forward to reading
it!

Tim

.html

Tim,

I'm gonna upload the last chapter today so I'll convert the first two into word so that everyone will be able to read them. Or you can visit  http://www.fanfiction.net/list.php?categoryid=1295 and the story is posted there.
 
Kasey  
 
--- "Tim" <apefan23@...> wrote:
 
From: "Tim" <apefan23@...>
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 21:11:34 -0000
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] The Stranger


I was going to sit down today and read "The Stranger" since I hadn't caiught
any of it before....so I downloaded all the chapters but my Excel cannot open
the first two ....are they posted anywhere in Word? Looking forward to reading
it!

Tim

<.html

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the PotaDG
group.

File : /The Stranger/EPILOGUE.doc
Uploaded by : hidalgo_girl05 <elfgirl_06@...>
Description : Epilogue

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/files/The%20Stranger/EPILOGUE.doc

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

hidalgo_girl05 <elfgirl_06@...>

.html

In a message dated 11/25/2004 3:27:44 P.M. Central Standard Time, sand_hill_school@... writes:

There is a HUGE difference in the regular and exclusive Taylor
dolls.  I actually like the exclusive version and put in an order for
that one.

 

Is that in Astronaut or Fugitive form? 

Or both?

<.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Hunter Goatley <goathunter@g...>
wrote:

> Thanks to the efforts of Greg P., issue 6 of the Marvel UK comic is
> now available for download in PDF format:
>
> http://www.goatley.com/pota/
>
> Look for issue 7 next weekend!
>
> Hunter

-- Thanks again guys. Can't wait until you eventually get to the
Apeslayer issues ;-) You are going to be doing those aren't you?

Neil

Thanks kasey...I just finished Chapter One and it's
excellent....It reminds me of reading the Star Trek
novels a long time ago.....Can't we get these
published? It would be so great to have a continuing
line of POTA novels! Can't wait to read the rest!

Tim

--- Kasey Taylor Cooper
<elfgirl_06@...> wrote:


---------------------------------

Tim,

I'm gonna upload the last chapter today so I'll
convert the first two into word so that everyone will
be able to read them. Or you can visit
http://www.fanfiction.net/list.php?categoryid=1295 and
the story is posted there.

Kasey

--- "Tim" <apefan23@...> wrote:

From: "Tim" <apefan23@...>
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 21:11:34 -0000
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] The Stranger


I was going to sit down today and read "The Stranger"
since I hadn't caiught
any of it before....so I downloaded all the chapters
but my Excel cannot open
the first two ....are they posted anywhere in Word?
Looking forward to reading
it!

Tim









---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
PotaDG-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms of Service.






__________________________________

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the PotaDG
group.

File : /Within the Planet of the Apes/Chapter10.gif
Uploaded by : munkeyman63au <nfoster@...>
Description : Chapters 9 & 10

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/files/Within%20the%20Planet%20of%20the%20Apes/Chapter10.gif

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

munkeyman63au <nfoster@...>

It's the Forbidden Zone Astronaut Taylor.

http://www.sideshowtoy.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?
category=apes_12&item=75031

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 11/25/2004 3:27:44 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> sand_hill_school@y... writes:
>
> There is a HUGE difference in the regular and exclusive Taylor
> dolls. I actually like the exclusive version and put in an order
for
> that one.
>
>
>
> Is that in Astronaut or Fugitive form?
> Or both?

.html

In a message dated 11/26/2004 12:23:06 P.M. Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

Jun Planing's Thade, Limbo and Krull

I'm having a hard time finding pics.

Anyone have any?

<.html

.html

In a message dated 11/26/2004 6:09:27 P.M. Central Standard Time, sand_hill_school@... writes:

It's the Forbidden Zone Astronaut Taylor.

It doesn't even look like him!

<.html

Whew! I just slogged through about 300 posts, tryin' to catch up
after having been gone & busy elsewhere.

First off, I ain't gonna slag anybody here for bein' lousy spellers,
Mike. We all know where THAT can lead, right?

Regarding the "ESCAPE"/"CONQUEST" fanfic topic posted on around
message #22500 or so, let me chime in with a few things.

1. The Ape-onauts did indeed become celebrities, as that montage
sequence shows -- when they're out getting new "human" clothing, and
being interviewed by writers for magazines ("How do you find our
women?"; "Do you think I'm a 'pet'?"; etc).
Also, the President tells Hasslein that "the voters love them",
indicating that it would be politically suicidal for him to authorize
anything harmful to them. Until Hasslein provides him with a reason,
of course...

2. Armando must have kept Caesar's intelligence and speaking-ability
a secret from EVERYBODY; he tells Breck/Kolp/Hoskyns: "You can
question my circus hands!" He knows that if his "hands"/workers ARE
questioned, there's nothing they can say that will give Caesar away.
It's too bad Armando doesn't know about the "Authenticator", since he
relied on his own ability to keep the secret... and that gizmo can
FORCE him to divulge it, against his will.

3. The policeman/border-guard dude who tells Armando, "Circuses are
past-history" could just be giving him the opinion of a CITY-dweller;
but Breck differentiates how things are in "our cities" as opposed to
where Armando's circus normally operates: "in the Provinces". One
could suppose that most of the human (and ape) population has moved
into the high-tech cities, like Breck's city, and thus there would be
a general de-ruralization of the populace. But those who chose to
remain in the rural, "provincial" areas would be more apt to
appreciate the "old" way of living: on farms, in smaller towns, etc.
And they would be more apt to appreciate an "Old-Time" circus like
the one Armando ran. How many modern city-folk have a clue what goes
on in the smaller towns of their own state? I imagine that circuses
are much like rodeos -- the City-folk tend not to appreciate these
things the way "small town folk" do.

4. I don't want to seem dismissive of a fanfic idea, but I do have a
problem regarding the possibility of Caesar having become a father
with someone other than his wife Lisa -- with one exception.
In "CONQUEST", Caesar is selected to be a breeder with a newly-
arrived female chimp at the "Breeding Annex"... and after a shrug of
his shoulders, he goes into the chamber where the chimpette with
the "come-hither" glances awaits him. I can see him going for it,
perhaps thinking that IF he is ever found and killed, this chimpette
will bear a child to him that will carry on the "intelligence"-gene,
and either HE (or SHE) will go on to overthrow Mankind.

But I'd doubt that Caesar already has a mate and/or child(ren) back
at the circus -- because IF they existed, then Armando would know
that Breck's people, investigating them, would go out of their way to
find out if the missing chimp they're looking for had already started
spreading his genes in the gene pool available to him; they would
reason that IF the baby born to Zira WERE to have survived, then it
would be 18 years old and well old enough to breed. I could imagine
Breck having the entire chimp-group in Armando's circus quarantined,
tested for genetic similarities to the Ape-onauts, etc. And then
killed, just to be safe.

Armando isn't worried about what Breck's goons might find at his
circus, I think, because there's nothing incriminating there
whatsoever. Only his own mind has such evidence, and he's confident
that he can remain faithful to Caesar... until he realizes that the
Authenticator can FORCE him to betray his foster-son.

5. I have to disagree somewhat with Rory's opinion regarding Dehn's
having concocted his scenario. Zaius, in "PLANET", in his attempts to
re-evaluate the evidence in Cornelius' cave, refers back to a verse
from the Sacred Scrolls, and concludes that "the Ancients once kept
humans as household pets, until the Lawgiver proved that Man could
not be tamed." Throw that on its head for a second, and we can
perhaps glimpse a scenario where it was the HUMANS who kept the APES
as "household pets"... until it led to the situation in "CONQUEST".
And, how absurd an idea is it, when even today there are some people
with capuchin monkeys as pets, and when Michael Jackson has his own
menagerie -- including at least one chimpanzee -- as a pet.

Let me speculate further here, and suppose that in "CONQUEST" the
ownership of Apes tends to be amongst the affluent. The apes are
auctioned off -- not purchased at a pet store. And the higher the
bids get, the more money one has to have at one's disposal in order
to win the auction. There aren't that many apes alive on Earth today
for there to be so many that EVERYBODY can have one. Only those who
can afford them will be able to bid on them. And I see Breck's city
as a place where the Rich have clustered, in a "newer development",
rather than in the old-style cities which have probably reverted to
slums. The "projects", that sort of thing. Breck's city is the
ultimate "gated community" -- it has BORDER guards there to authorize
entry of a non-City-citizen, like Armando. How many cities in America
require permission for other Americans to enter the city limits?
Well, NONE do at the moment, unless there's a manhunt underway and
they have to set up checkpoints on all the highways leading into/out
of the city. In order to get into Breck's city, though, Armando has
to be FLOWN in via helicopter, to a landing pad where border cops
check out his "papers" and all that. I can well imagine that the
wealthy people who tend to live in Breck's city would prefer -- even
demand -- that "not just ANYBODY" be allowed into the nice, clean,
state-of-the-art city that they get to live in.

And, as far as I'm concerned, Dehn's origin-setup makes better sense
than any alternative I've heard to date. Apes are indigenous to
Africa and Southeast Asia, excepting the ones that are in Circuses,
Zoos, and laboratories where they're used as test animals. Dehn
concocted a plausible scenario, suggesting that something (a plague)
killed off all the dogs & cats, leaving Mankind with no pets (other
than rabbits, gerbils, hamsters, parakeets, snakes, etc. By first
increasing the role of monkeys as pets, and then accelerating this
process so that apes, too, are brought over to take the places of the
lost dogs and cats, makes sense to me. Of course, it's easier to
consider an ape as "pet-worthy" when it is an infant; it's easy to
cuddle an ape infant, when it is vulnerable and lovable, just as a
bear cub is. But watch out when they get to be adults! It is THEN
that they become far more dangerous, requiring severe CONDITIONING to
suppress their volatility.

The world of 1968's "PLANET" is in the New York City region, where
today there aren't that many apes around, except in zoos, right?
There had to have been SOME way that enough Chimps, Gorillas, and
Orangutans could be present in America, in that region, for Taylor's
world to be transformed via nuclear war into Zaius' world. Dehn's
scenario is, well, good enough for me to explain that transformation.
He has apes being shipped overseas to port cities like Breck's, where
they are put through a severe conditioning sequence and then sold on
the auction block to the wealthy classes. One could imagine that Apes
in this scenario are like Oil: America has limited amounts of each,
and has to either make treaties and trade deals with those foreign
countries which DO have this "resource", or it must use its military
might to ANNEX those foreign countries, in order to procure the
resource for its own use. If all the dogs and cats on Earth are dead,
why does America get to have the apes from Africa and Asia/Borneo?
There aren't MILLIONS of apes left alive in the world, and why
wouldn't Africans or Borneoans (sp?) hoard this resource for
themselves, or charge exorbitant prices for them? Perhaps they DO,
and that is why only the very rich can afford to buy them at auction,
and why those who ARE shipped over to America are used in a breeding
program, to lessen the problem of American reliance on foreign Apes;
if enough apes can be bred in America, then fewer and fewer apes have
to be shipped from Borneo or Africa.

Caesar does mention "apes on the FIVE CONTINENTS" emulating his
military overthrow of Mankind. Caesar either knows or assumes that
Apes are enslaved the world over, and not just in America. However,
it might just be an assumption on his part, since he didn't even know
about the slavery until Armando brought him into the city.

But IF he has since discovered that apes ARE enslaved on all 5
continents, then we should infer that the wealthiest people on all
those continents have opportunities to acquire apes via shipment from
Africa and Borneo, etc. Perhaps there are instances of piracy on the
high seas, where ships bound for one port are intercepted and their
contents transferred to ships working for other countries. Perhaps
there is a UN body at work deciding on who gets to import apes from
the countries in question (French Cameroons, etc). Perhaps there are
embargos on certain countries, so that they are 'deprived' of their
fair share of simian pets/slaves. All sorts of possibilities here...

I'll leave it at that for now. Ciao!

Patrick

Oh boy Patrick - WELCOME BACK!

If size matters then you are king my friend! ;)

Very interesting points, THANKS!

Yes, my spelling has been requiring a check...I know!

Michael


--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "patrickmichaeltilton"
<patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:

>
> Whew! I just slogged through about 300 posts, tryin' to catch up
> after having been gone & busy elsewhere.
>
> First off, I ain't gonna slag anybody here for bein' lousy

spellers,

> Mike. We all know where THAT can lead, right?
>
> Regarding the "ESCAPE"/"CONQUEST" fanfic topic posted on around
> message #22500 or so, let me chime in with a few things.
>
> 1. The Ape-onauts did indeed become celebrities, as that montage
> sequence shows -- when they're out getting new "human" clothing,

and

> being interviewed by writers for magazines ("How do you find our
> women?"; "Do you think I'm a 'pet'?"; etc).
> Also, the President tells Hasslein that "the voters love them",
> indicating that it would be politically suicidal for him to

authorize

> anything harmful to them. Until Hasslein provides him with a

reason,

> of course...
>
> 2. Armando must have kept Caesar's intelligence and speaking-

ability

> a secret from EVERYBODY; he tells Breck/Kolp/Hoskyns: "You can
> question my circus hands!" He knows that if his "hands"/workers

ARE

> questioned, there's nothing they can say that will give Caesar

away.

> It's too bad Armando doesn't know about the "Authenticator", since

he

> relied on his own ability to keep the secret... and that gizmo can
> FORCE him to divulge it, against his will.
>
> 3. The policeman/border-guard dude who tells Armando, "Circuses

are

> past-history" could just be giving him the opinion of a CITY-

dweller;

> but Breck differentiates how things are in "our cities" as opposed

to

> where Armando's circus normally operates: "in the Provinces". One
> could suppose that most of the human (and ape) population has

moved

> into the high-tech cities, like Breck's city, and thus there would

be

> a general de-ruralization of the populace. But those who chose to
> remain in the rural, "provincial" areas would be more apt to
> appreciate the "old" way of living: on farms, in smaller towns,

etc.

> And they would be more apt to appreciate an "Old-Time" circus like
> the one Armando ran. How many modern city-folk have a clue what

goes

> on in the smaller towns of their own state? I imagine that

circuses

> are much like rodeos -- the City-folk tend not to appreciate these
> things the way "small town folk" do.
>
> 4. I don't want to seem dismissive of a fanfic idea, but I do have

a

> problem regarding the possibility of Caesar having become a father
> with someone other than his wife Lisa -- with one exception.
> In "CONQUEST", Caesar is selected to be a breeder with a newly-
> arrived female chimp at the "Breeding Annex"... and after a shrug

of

> his shoulders, he goes into the chamber where the chimpette with
> the "come-hither" glances awaits him. I can see him going for it,
> perhaps thinking that IF he is ever found and killed, this

chimpette

> will bear a child to him that will carry on the "intelligence"-

gene,

> and either HE (or SHE) will go on to overthrow Mankind.
>
> But I'd doubt that Caesar already has a mate and/or child(ren)

back

> at the circus -- because IF they existed, then Armando would know
> that Breck's people, investigating them, would go out of their way

to

> find out if the missing chimp they're looking for had already

started

> spreading his genes in the gene pool available to him; they would
> reason that IF the baby born to Zira WERE to have survived, then

it

> would be 18 years old and well old enough to breed. I could

imagine

> Breck having the entire chimp-group in Armando's circus

quarantined,

> tested for genetic similarities to the Ape-onauts, etc. And then
> killed, just to be safe.
>
> Armando isn't worried about what Breck's goons might find at his
> circus, I think, because there's nothing incriminating there
> whatsoever. Only his own mind has such evidence, and he's

confident

> that he can remain faithful to Caesar... until he realizes that

the

> Authenticator can FORCE him to betray his foster-son.
>
> 5. I have to disagree somewhat with Rory's opinion regarding

Dehn's

> having concocted his scenario. Zaius, in "PLANET", in his attempts

to

> re-evaluate the evidence in Cornelius' cave, refers back to a

verse

> from the Sacred Scrolls, and concludes that "the Ancients once

kept

> humans as household pets, until the Lawgiver proved that Man could
> not be tamed." Throw that on its head for a second, and we can
> perhaps glimpse a scenario where it was the HUMANS who kept the

APES

> as "household pets"... until it led to the situation

in "CONQUEST".

> And, how absurd an idea is it, when even today there are some

people

> with capuchin monkeys as pets, and when Michael Jackson has his

own

> menagerie -- including at least one chimpanzee -- as a pet.
>
> Let me speculate further here, and suppose that in "CONQUEST" the
> ownership of Apes tends to be amongst the affluent. The apes are
> auctioned off -- not purchased at a pet store. And the higher the
> bids get, the more money one has to have at one's disposal in

order

> to win the auction. There aren't that many apes alive on Earth

today

> for there to be so many that EVERYBODY can have one. Only those

who

> can afford them will be able to bid on them. And I see Breck's

city

> as a place where the Rich have clustered, in a "newer

development",

> rather than in the old-style cities which have probably reverted

to

> slums. The "projects", that sort of thing. Breck's city is the
> ultimate "gated community" -- it has BORDER guards there to

authorize

> entry of a non-City-citizen, like Armando. How many cities in

America

> require permission for other Americans to enter the city limits?
> Well, NONE do at the moment, unless there's a manhunt underway and
> they have to set up checkpoints on all the highways leading

into/out

> of the city. In order to get into Breck's city, though, Armando

has

> to be FLOWN in via helicopter, to a landing pad where border cops
> check out his "papers" and all that. I can well imagine that the
> wealthy people who tend to live in Breck's city would prefer --

even

> demand -- that "not just ANYBODY" be allowed into the nice, clean,
> state-of-the-art city that they get to live in.
>
> And, as far as I'm concerned, Dehn's origin-setup makes better

sense

> than any alternative I've heard to date. Apes are indigenous to
> Africa and Southeast Asia, excepting the ones that are in

Circuses,

> Zoos, and laboratories where they're used as test animals. Dehn
> concocted a plausible scenario, suggesting that something (a

plague)

> killed off all the dogs & cats, leaving Mankind with no pets

(other

> than rabbits, gerbils, hamsters, parakeets, snakes, etc. By first
> increasing the role of monkeys as pets, and then accelerating this
> process so that apes, too, are brought over to take the places of

the

> lost dogs and cats, makes sense to me. Of course, it's easier to
> consider an ape as "pet-worthy" when it is an infant; it's easy to
> cuddle an ape infant, when it is vulnerable and lovable, just as a
> bear cub is. But watch out when they get to be adults! It is THEN
> that they become far more dangerous, requiring severe CONDITIONING

to

> suppress their volatility.
>
> The world of 1968's "PLANET" is in the New York City region, where
> today there aren't that many apes around, except in zoos, right?
> There had to have been SOME way that enough Chimps, Gorillas, and
> Orangutans could be present in America, in that region, for

Taylor's

> world to be transformed via nuclear war into Zaius' world. Dehn's
> scenario is, well, good enough for me to explain that

transformation.

> He has apes being shipped overseas to port cities like Breck's,

where

> they are put through a severe conditioning sequence and then sold

on

> the auction block to the wealthy classes. One could imagine that

Apes

> in this scenario are like Oil: America has limited amounts of

each,

> and has to either make treaties and trade deals with those foreign
> countries which DO have this "resource", or it must use its

military

> might to ANNEX those foreign countries, in order to procure the
> resource for its own use. If all the dogs and cats on Earth are

dead,

> why does America get to have the apes from Africa and Asia/Borneo?
> There aren't MILLIONS of apes left alive in the world, and why
> wouldn't Africans or Borneoans (sp?) hoard this resource for
> themselves, or charge exorbitant prices for them? Perhaps they DO,
> and that is why only the very rich can afford to buy them at

auction,

> and why those who ARE shipped over to America are used in a

breeding

> program, to lessen the problem of American reliance on foreign

Apes;

> if enough apes can be bred in America, then fewer and fewer apes

have

> to be shipped from Borneo or Africa.
>
> Caesar does mention "apes on the FIVE CONTINENTS" emulating his
> military overthrow of Mankind. Caesar either knows or assumes that
> Apes are enslaved the world over, and not just in America.

However,

> it might just be an assumption on his part, since he didn't even

know

> about the slavery until Armando brought him into the city.
>
> But IF he has since discovered that apes ARE enslaved on all 5
> continents, then we should infer that the wealthiest people on all
> those continents have opportunities to acquire apes via shipment

from

> Africa and Borneo, etc. Perhaps there are instances of piracy on

the

> high seas, where ships bound for one port are intercepted and

their

> contents transferred to ships working for other countries. Perhaps
> there is a UN body at work deciding on who gets to import apes

from

> the countries in question (French Cameroons, etc). Perhaps there

are

> embargos on certain countries, so that they are 'deprived' of

their

> fair share of simian pets/slaves. All sorts of possibilities

here...

>
> I'll leave it at that for now. Ciao!
>
> Patrick

Neither do the other two. I just said that I like this one
better! ;) Besides, I like the costume.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 11/26/2004 6:09:27 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> sand_hill_school@y... writes:
>
> It's the Forbidden Zone Astronaut Taylor.
>
>
> It doesn't even look like him!

.html.html In a message dated 11/27/04 6:39:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

And, how absurd an idea is it, when even today there are some people
with capuchin monkeys as pets, and when Michael Jackson has his own
menagerie -- including at least one chimpanzee -- as a pet.

Yeah, and Jackson had to have "Bubbles" put away in a zoo because the chimp got to hard to control.  This is the way it is with male apes, they're aggressive and want to dominate.  Eventually they will physically challenge you to see if you can still dominate them.  If you can't -- you're in trouble!

Keeping any of the great apes as household pets is impractical.  You'd only be able to keep females and they'd be more like dependents than human kids.

If all the dogs and cats went extinct humans would make pets of anything else before they'd have a 300 pound gorilla in the living room.

-- Rory<.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 11/27/04 6:39:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

Let me speculate further here, and suppose that in "CONQUEST" the
ownership of Apes tends to be amongst the affluent.

Why would the affluent want to own apes?  They already can and they don't, and besides why would they want the burden of that responsibility, and has for hand servants, the affluent can much more easily just hire people.

And, as far as I'm concerned, Dehn's origin-setup makes better sense
than any alternative I've heard to date.

That's because you want it so very much to be plausible, but seriously now, seriously, you must admit that Dehn's scenario, even Boulle's, is pretty far-fetched.

On a small scale man has kept monkeys as pets, even those as large as baboons, and has and still does train them to do some menial tasks, even chimps have been used in this way, but never in all the history of humankind have the great apes ever been made into pets on any large scale.  Why?  Because it opens up a whole host of problems -- the main one being that the great apes are too human and too smart to be dominated in any cooperative way by man.  They simply wouldn't put up with it.

-- Rory <.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 11/27/04 6:39:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

Of course, it's easier to
consider an ape as "pet-worthy" when it is an infant; it's easy to
cuddle an ape infant, when it is vulnerable and lovable, just as a
bear cub is. But watch out when they get to be adults! It is THEN
that they become far more dangerous, requiring severe CONDITIONING to
suppress their volatility.

The world of 1968's "PLANET" is in the New York City region, where
today there aren't that many apes around, except in zoos, right?
There had to have been SOME way that enough Chimps, Gorillas, and
Orangutans could be present in America, in that region, for Taylor's
world to be transformed via nuclear war into Zaius' world. Dehn's
scenario is, well, good enough for me to explain that transformation.

They only way that great apes could be made into pets and servants is if they were genetically altered to make them less physically imposing and less intellectually challenging.  I can easily imagine that that could be done, but what a massive effort it would be.  It would cost hundreds of millions of dollars, years of experimentation and trials, countless failures.  Who in their right mind would initiate such an effort and why would the nations of the world tolerate it?  The dangers of it would be self-evident.  Look at how many people go ape at just the suggestion of human cloning.

Get real Patrick.

-- Rory<.html <.html

.html

In a message dated 11/27/2004 10:51:27 A.M. Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

They only way that great apes could be made into pets and servants is if they were genetically altered to make them less physically imposing and less intellectually challenging. 

 

That's what I think happened.  It wasn't just selective breeding.  And I think it was a secret between the government and Ape Management.

<.html

.html.html In a message dated 11/27/04 12:44:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

That's what I think happened.  It wasn't just selective breeding.  And I think it was a secret between the government and Ape Management.

Why would Ape Management come into being before there were apes to manage, T?  And why would the government want to secretly have such a project?  What could genetically altered (or "enhanced") apes, more human-like, offer the government?

Why? Why? Why?

I have a "POTA reinvented" scenario in mind, but first I want to hear from others here on what your ideas are.

You first have to plausibly answer the question "Why would man genetically alter the great apes?"

Then you have to answer how these genetically altered (or "enhanced") apes could and would be allowed to reproduce in great numbers?

Then you need plausibly explain how they could come to dominate a planet of billions of humans -- humans with very deadly weapons.

I have some ideas, but it would wipe away not only Dehn's scenario but Boulle's as well.

-- Rory <.html <.html

.html

In a message dated 11/27/2004 12:27:36 P.M. Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

Why would Ape Management come into being before there were apes to manage, T?  And why would the government want to secretly have such a project?  What could genetically altered (or "enhanced") apes, more human-like, offer the government?

Why? Why? Why?

 

Money Money Money

That's why!  That's what!

<.html

.html.html In a message dated 11/27/04 2:03:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

Money Money Money
That's why!  That's what!

Oh boy!  Well, you need to explain this to me.  How does the government make money off genetically enhanced apes?

-- Rory<.html <.html

Unless the apes were genetically manipulated and there were guarantees
on their domestic status designed genetically - much as cats and dogs
tool a while to domesticate.

Michael

>
> ----------
> From: Haristas@...[SMTP:HARISTAS@...]
> Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 3:32:56 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: "ESCAPE" topic points...
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

In a message dated 11/27/04 6:39:04 AM Eastern Standard Time,
patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:




And, how absurd an idea is it, when even today there are some people
with capuchin monkeys as pets, and when Michael Jackson has his own
menagerie -- including at least one chimpanzee -- as a pet.




Yeah, and Jackson had to have "Bubbles" put away in a zoo because the
chimp
got to hard to control. This is the way it is with male apes, they're
aggressive and want to dominate. Eventually they will physically
challenge
you to see if you can still dominate them. If you can't -- you're in
trouble!

Keeping any of the great apes as household pets is impractical. You'd
only
be able to keep females and they'd be more like dependents than human
kids.

If all the dogs and cats went extinct humans would make pets of anything
else before they'd have a 300 pound gorilla in the living room.

-- Rory

Who would? I think a government facing the prospect of suicide bombers
everywhere might secretly use apes for the same reason!

Get CREATIVE Rory! ;)

Michael

>
> ----------
> From: Haristas@...[SMTP:HARISTAS@...]
> Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 3:50:25 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] "ESCAPE" topic points...
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

In a message dated 11/27/04 6:39:04 AM Eastern Standard Time,
patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:




Of course, it's easier to
consider an ape as "pet-worthy" when it is an infant; it's easy to
cuddle an ape infant, when it is vulnerable and lovable, just as a
bear cub is. But watch out when they get to be adults! It is THEN
that they become far more dangerous, requiring severe CONDITIONING to
suppress their volatility.

The world of 1968's "PLANET" is in the New York City region, where
today there aren't that many apes around, except in zoos, right?
There had to have been SOME way that enough Chimps, Gorillas, and
Orangutans could be present in America, in that region, for Taylor's
world to be transformed via nuclear war into Zaius' world. Dehn's
scenario is, well, good enough for me to explain that transformation.




They only way that great apes could be made into pets and servants is if
they were genetically altered to make them less physically imposing and
less
intellectually challenging. I can easily imagine that that could be
done,
but what a massive effort it would be. It would cost hundreds of
millions
of dollars, years of experimentation and trials, countless failures.
Who in
their right mind would initiate such an effort and why would the nations
of
the world tolerate it? The dangers of it would be self-evident. Look
at
how many people go ape at just the suggestion of human cloning.

Get real Patrick.

-- Rory

Greed, power, revenge....to build a disposable army, to replace robots
because unions outlaw them, to play God?

I think it would have to be a secret government theory. Marry that with
the extinction of apes in the wild and you have a reason that we might
want to have lots of them around (guilt!).

Michael

>
> ----------
> From: Haristas@...[SMTP:HARISTAS@...]
> Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2004 5:26:39 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: "ESCAPE" topic points...
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

In a message dated 11/27/04 12:44:32 PM Eastern Standard Time,
LordTZer0@... writes:




That's what I think happened. It wasn't just selective breeding. And I
think it was a secret between the government and Ape Management.





Why would Ape Management come into being before there were apes to
manage,
T? And why would the government want to secretly have such a project?
What
could genetically altered (or "enhanced") apes, more human-like, offer
the
government?

Why? Why? Why?

I have a "POTA reinvented" scenario in mind, but first I want to hear
from
others here on what your ideas are.

You first have to plausibly answer the question "Why would man
genetically
alter the great apes?"

Then you have to answer how these genetically altered (or "enhanced")
apes
could and would be allowed to reproduce in great numbers?

Then you need plausibly explain how they could come to dominate a planet
of
billions of humans -- humans with very deadly weapons.

I have some ideas, but it would wipe away not only Dehn's scenario but
Boulle's as well.

-- Rory





<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129ebhk3f/M=298184.5639630.6699735.3001176/
D=gr
oups/S=1705021437:HM/EXP=1101666416/A=2434970/R=0/SIG=11edksnhv/*http://
www.
netflix.com/Default?mqso=60185402> click here

<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=298184.5639630.6699735.3001176/D=group
s/S=
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--

.html.html In a message dated 11/27/04 4:26:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

Who would?  I think a government facing the prospect of suicide bombers
everywhere might secretly use apes for the same reason!

Get CREATIVE Rory!  ;)

There's no way animal rights groups would allow the government to use innocent apes in such a way.  That's ridiculous.

Try again, Mike.

-- Rory<.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 11/27/04 4:31:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

Greed, power, revenge....to build a disposable army, to replace robots
because unions outlaw them, to play God?

I think it would have to be a secret government theory.  Marry that with
the extinction of apes in the wild and you have a reason that we might
want to have lots of them around (guilt!).

Michael

You've almost got it there, but your first reasons are silly.

-- Rory<.html <.html