Yahoo! potadg group — Messages 34773–34872

Dates: 2006-01-05 through 2006-01-08

Messages in potadg group. Page 161 of 451.
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Group: potadg Message: 34773 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 1/5/2006
Subject: Re: A Question
Group: potadg Message: 34774 From: John Date: 1/5/2006
Subject: New comic
Group: potadg Message: 34775 From: tshaf37@aol.com Date: 1/5/2006
Subject: Re: Within the Planet of the Apes strip #64
Group: potadg Message: 34776 From: tshaf37@aol.com Date: 1/5/2006
Subject: Re: TV Gorillas question
Group: potadg Message: 34777 From: tshaf37@aol.com Date: 1/5/2006
Subject: Re: A question
Group: potadg Message: 34778 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 1/5/2006
Subject: Re: A question
Group: potadg Message: 34779 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 1/5/2006
Subject: Re: Within the Planet of the Apes strip #64
Group: potadg Message: 34780 From: Neil Date: 1/5/2006
Subject: Re: TV Gorillas question
Group: potadg Message: 34781 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 1/5/2006
Subject: Re: New comic
Group: potadg Message: 34782 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 1/6/2006
Subject: Re: A question
Group: potadg Message: 34783 From: Neil T Foster Date: 1/6/2006
Subject: FW: [yg-alerts] Digest Number 3
Group: potadg Message: 34784 From: Neil T Foster Date: 1/6/2006
Subject: Re: Within the Planet of the Apes strip #64
Group: potadg Message: 34785 From: patrickmichaeltilton Date: 1/6/2006
Subject: Re: "Disrespect" THIS!
Group: potadg Message: 34786 From: patrickmichaeltilton Date: 1/6/2006
Subject: POTA as a mansion... or something else
Group: potadg Message: 34787 From: patrickmichaeltilton Date: 1/6/2006
Subject: Actors, their talent, etc.
Group: potadg Message: 34788 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 1/6/2006
Subject: Re: POTA as a mansion... or something else
Group: potadg Message: 34789 From: patrickmichaeltilton Date: 1/6/2006
Subject: Crazy time-travel shite
Group: potadg Message: 34790 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 1/6/2006
Subject: Re: POTA as a mansion... or something else
Group: potadg Message: 34791 From: Haristas@aol.com Date: 1/6/2006
Subject: Wal-Mart Apologizes for Racist Software Glitch
Group: potadg Message: 34792 From: Haristas@aol.com Date: 1/6/2006
Subject: Re: Crazy time-travel shite
Group: potadg Message: 34793 From: Haristas@aol.com Date: 1/6/2006
Subject: Re: Wal-Mart Apologizes for Racist Software Glitch
Group: potadg Message: 34794 From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com Date: 1/6/2006
Subject: New file uploaded to PotaDG
Group: potadg Message: 34795 From: patrickmichaeltilton Date: 1/6/2006
Subject: Scrolls -- the Sacred and the Secret
Group: potadg Message: 34796 From: Neil T Foster Date: 1/6/2006
Subject: Within the Planet of the Apes strip #65
Group: potadg Message: 34797 From: patrickmichaeltilton Date: 1/6/2006
Subject: Re: "Disrespect" THIS!
Group: potadg Message: 34798 From: Haristas@aol.com Date: 1/6/2006
Subject: Re: WALMART-POTA
Group: potadg Message: 34799 From: Haristas@aol.com Date: 1/6/2006
Subject: Re: "Disrespect" THIS!
Group: potadg Message: 34800 From: Neil Date: 1/6/2006
Subject: Re: "Disrespect" THIS!
Group: potadg Message: 34801 From: Neil Date: 1/6/2006
Subject: Re: WALMART-POTA
Group: potadg Message: 34802 From: Haristas@aol.com Date: 1/6/2006
Subject: Re: WALMART-POTA
Group: potadg Message: 34803 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 1/6/2006
Subject: Re: WALMART-POTA
Group: potadg Message: 34804 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 1/6/2006
Subject: Re: WALMART-POTA
Group: potadg Message: 34805 From: Haristas@aol.com Date: 1/7/2006
Subject: Re: Why 'they' are SEQUELS and NOT Prequels (anyway)
Group: potadg Message: 34806 From: kevin Date: 1/7/2006
Subject: Re: Why 'they' are SEQUELS and NOT Prequels (anyway)
Group: potadg Message: 34807 From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com Date: 1/7/2006
Subject: New file uploaded to PotaDG
Group: potadg Message: 34808 From: Neil T Foster Date: 1/7/2006
Subject: Within the Planet of the Apes strip #66
Group: potadg Message: 34809 From: Neil Date: 1/7/2006
Subject: Re: Why 'they' are SEQUELS and NOT Prequels (anyway)
Group: potadg Message: 34810 From: Neil Date: 1/7/2006
Subject: Re: A Question
Group: potadg Message: 34811 From: Neil Date: 1/7/2006
Subject: A sequence of related events arranged in chronological order...
Group: potadg Message: 34812 From: Haristas@aol.com Date: 1/7/2006
Subject: Re: A Question
Group: potadg Message: 34813 From: John Date: 1/7/2006
Subject: Re: Why 'they' are SEQUELS and NOT Prequels (anyway)
Group: potadg Message: 34814 From: mike_oz2005 Date: 1/7/2006
Subject: Hello from Sydney
Group: potadg Message: 34815 From: mike_oz2005 Date: 1/7/2006
Subject: Re: A Question
Group: potadg Message: 34816 From: mike_oz2005 Date: 1/7/2006
Subject: Re: Within the Planet of the Apes strip #64
Group: potadg Message: 34817 From: mike_oz2005 Date: 1/7/2006
Subject: Re: A question
Group: potadg Message: 34818 From: mike_oz2005 Date: 1/7/2006
Subject: TV Show Comic GOING HOME
Group: potadg Message: 34819 From: mike_oz2005 Date: 1/7/2006
Subject: Re: TV Gorillas question
Group: potadg Message: 34820 From: mike_oz2005 Date: 1/7/2006
Subject: Revolution Comic ALL OVER AUSTRALIA!!!!
Group: potadg Message: 34821 From: mike_oz2005 Date: 1/7/2006
Subject: Re: TV Gorillas question
Group: potadg Message: 34822 From: taebokitti@aol.com Date: 1/7/2006
Subject: Re: Revolution Comic ALL OVER AUSTRALIA!!!!
Group: potadg Message: 34823 From: Michael Whitty Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: TEST
Group: potadg Message: 34824 From: mike_oz2005 Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: Re: TEST
Group: potadg Message: 34825 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: Re: A Question
Group: potadg Message: 34826 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: Re: Hello from Sydney
Group: potadg Message: 34827 From: Michael Whitty Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: Hello from Sydney
Group: potadg Message: 34828 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: Re: Hello from Sydney
Group: potadg Message: 34829 From: patrickmichaeltilton Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: Re: Dehn... a "disrespecter"?
Group: potadg Message: 34830 From: Haristas@aol.com Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: Re: Timelines
Group: potadg Message: 34831 From: Haristas@aol.com Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: Re: Dehn... a "disrespecter"?
Group: potadg Message: 34832 From: patrickmichaeltilton Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: Re: A Question - A good question
Group: potadg Message: 34833 From: Patrick Tilton Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: Re: Dehn... a "disrespecter"?
Group: potadg Message: 34834 From: merlynpota Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: Re: Timelines
Group: potadg Message: 34835 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: Re: Timelines
Group: potadg Message: 34836 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: Re: A Question - A good question
Group: potadg Message: 34837 From: Michael Whitty Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: Hello from Sydney
Group: potadg Message: 34838 From: Michael Whitty Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: Timelines
Group: potadg Message: 34839 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: Re: Timelines
Group: potadg Message: 34840 From: ron kenner Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: Re: WALMART-POTA
Group: potadg Message: 34841 From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: New file uploaded to PotaDG
Group: potadg Message: 34842 From: Neil T Foster Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: Within the Planet of the Apes strip #67
Group: potadg Message: 34843 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: Re: Dehn... a "disrespecter"?
Group: potadg Message: 34844 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: Re: Timelines
Group: potadg Message: 34845 From: Neil Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: Re: TV Show Comic GOING HOME
Group: potadg Message: 34846 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: Re: A Question - A good question
Group: potadg Message: 34847 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: Re: Hello from Sydney
Group: potadg Message: 34848 From: taebokitti@aol.com Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: Re: Within the Planet of the Apes strip #66
Group: potadg Message: 34849 From: Neil Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: Re: Within the Planet of the Apes strip #66
Group: potadg Message: 34850 From: Whitty, Michael Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: Within the Planet of the Apes strip #67
Group: potadg Message: 34851 From: Whitty, Michael Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: Re: A Question - A good question
Group: potadg Message: 34852 From: Whitty, Michael Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: Re: Within the Planet of the Apes strip #66
Group: potadg Message: 34853 From: Whitty, Michael Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: Re: Hello from Sydney
Group: potadg Message: 34854 From: taebokitti@aol.com Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: Re: Within the Planet of the Apes strip #67
Group: potadg Message: 34855 From: Whitty, Michael Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: TV Show Comic GOING HOME
Group: potadg Message: 34856 From: taebokitti@aol.com Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: Re: A Question - A good question
Group: potadg Message: 34857 From: Whitty, Michael Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: Re: Within the Planet of the Apes strip #67
Group: potadg Message: 34858 From: Whitty, Michael Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: Re: A Question - A good question
Group: potadg Message: 34859 From: Neil Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: Re: TV Show Comic GOING HOME
Group: potadg Message: 34860 From: taebokitti@aol.com Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: Re: TV Show Comic GOING HOME
Group: potadg Message: 34861 From: Whitty, Michael Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: Re: TV Show Comic GOING HOME
Group: potadg Message: 34862 From: merlynpota Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: Re: A Question - A good question
Group: potadg Message: 34863 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: Re: A Question - A good question
Group: potadg Message: 34864 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: Re: TV Show Comic GOING HOME
Group: potadg Message: 34865 From: Whitty, Michael Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: A Question - A good question
Group: potadg Message: 34866 From: Whitty, Michael Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: TV Show Comic GOING HOME
Group: potadg Message: 34867 From: Whitty, Michael Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: TV Show Comic GOING HOME
Group: potadg Message: 34868 From: Haristas@aol.com Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: Re: Timelines
Group: potadg Message: 34869 From: Haristas@aol.com Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: Re: WALMART-POTA
Group: potadg Message: 34870 From: Whitty, Michael Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: Re: Timelines
Group: potadg Message: 34871 From: Whitty, Michael Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: Re: TV Show Comic GOING HOME
Group: potadg Message: 34872 From: John Date: 1/8/2006
Subject: Re: Within the Planet of the Apes strip #67



Group: potadg Message: 34773 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 1/5/2006
Subject: Re: A Question
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In a message dated 1/5/2006 8:45:46 P.M. Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:
PLANET cannot depend on the existence of its sequels.  It's simply an unacceptable artistic paradox. 
 
I'm with you on this one.  Before there was a series
I had an image in my head of how it all happened.
And the series builds on that.  Even though it's a
bit vague, it starts to flesh out.  And to say, well
when Zira and Cornelius read the secret texts it said,
get in a spaceship and go back in time to have your
baby and he'll take over the world, but lie, and make
up some daft shit about Aldo, I just don't buy it.
Look at them when they did lie, about not knowing
Taylor.  When they're telling about their history
it's nothing like that.  You knew they were lying
before.  When they're talking about history
they are telling the gospel truth.  Trading lines
back and forth.  No one lies like that.  They're
saying what they, and I, believe to be the truth.
And as we know, that didn't happen.  Well, in a
way it did, just not that way.
 
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Group: potadg Message: 34774 From: John Date: 1/5/2006
Subject: New comic
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Well, my local comic store did re-open, with my friend actually buying
the business with a partner from the previous owners, and when I
finally got to drive out there to visit I was quite surprised that
they did get in "Revolution" and had put 2 copies aside for me
already. They still had 2 left on the shelf. Not bad considering after
Katrina I thought they may never re-open and definately not in time
for me to get "Revolution" from them. Let's hear it for fanboy's! We
are a determined bunch that will not even let our Nations worst
natural disaster from keeping us from our obsessions.
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Group: potadg Message: 34775 From: tshaf37@aol.com Date: 1/5/2006
Subject: Re: Within the Planet of the Apes strip #64
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.html Can someone send me the link to this comic stripe? I'm not sure where its at now?<.html
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Group: potadg Message: 34776 From: tshaf37@aol.com Date: 1/5/2006
Subject: Re: TV Gorillas question
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In a message dated 1/5/2006 6:58:26 PM Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:
In the TV show were the gorillas a Police force?
If you have ever seen the Cartoon series they call him General Urko and never that in the TV show and often times people screw it up and address him as such but like I said he's not called that in the TV series. I can only assume the're 2 different characters. I know in the TV show he told Jason in episode #2 The Gladiators   "Go back to the garrison and bring back troops". I don't know if that helps but I always just assumed Urko was a Police officer type?
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Group: potadg Message: 34777 From: tshaf37@aol.com Date: 1/5/2006
Subject: Re: A question
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In a message dated 1/5/2006 4:59:35 PM Central Standard Time, wasitchu@... writes:
You will have to forgive me, but I feel that POTA made Charlton Heston 
known to many who would otherwise have little or no idea who he was. I was 
never a fan of his work prior to POTA. Never much liked him as an actor. 
But, I thouroughly enjoyed him in POTA. Never liked him much as a person 
outside of film. I have many issues with his personal crusade to promote 
the NRA
.
This is an interesting point, I don't own a gun but I don't begrudge those that do. What I don't understand is if you own a gun that's fine, why do people need armor piercing bullets?
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Group: potadg Message: 34778 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 1/5/2006
Subject: Re: A question
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In a message dated 1/5/2006 4:59:35 PM Central Standard Time, wasitchu@... writes:

You will have to forgive me, but I feel that POTA made Charlton Heston 
known to many who would otherwise have little or no idea who he was. I was 
never a fan of his work prior to POTA.



Far from being true... Heston had quite a lot of credentials, and was VERY WELL KNOWN before APES ever existed... Why do you think they wanted Heston to be in APES: He was a STAR and had NAME RECOGNITION....
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Group: potadg Message: 34779 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 1/5/2006
Subject: Re: Within the Planet of the Apes strip #64
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.html.html In a message dated 1/5/2006 10:52:24 PM Central Standard Time, tshaf37@... writes:

Can someone send me the link to this comic stripe? I'm not sure where its at now?

Whitty or Neil, you gonna send him an invite to join the group that has all these on it?
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Group: potadg Message: 34780 From: Neil Date: 1/5/2006
Subject: Re: TV Gorillas question
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--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , mlccougar@a... wrote:
> There is only one place that may make it seem as though the gorillas
were military, and that is in the episode "The Legacy" when Galen
see's a squad heading in their direction, he whispers "Soldiers"...

-- So they probably have both then which would make sense.

Neil
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Group: potadg Message: 34781 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 1/5/2006
Subject: Re: New comic
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In a message dated 1/5/2006 10:14:26 P.M. Central Standard Time, DrZaiusDavis@... writes:
a determined bunch that will not even let our Nations worst
natural disaster from keeping us from our obsessions.
 
Been hitting the sauce there Zaius?
Looks like a clear case of ambian-email.
 
 
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Group: potadg Message: 34782 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 1/6/2006
Subject: Re: A question
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In a message dated 1/5/2006 10:53:58 P.M. Central Standard Time, tshaf37@... writes:
What I don't understand is if you own a gun that's fine, why do people need armor piercing bullets?
 
In case of tanks!  ; )
But seriously.  I've often wanted to try the .50's
But to be honest a .300 Weatherby Magnum
is enough to knock you back in your seat.
I can't imagine, short of having to take out a
tank, what you might need anything bigger
for, in the Americas anyway.  No rinos or
elephants here.  Anything bigger would
be too much club for the course.  So
unless you want to take up target
shooting at distances over a mile
there's no real use for it.  Though
John Popper of Blues Traveler has
one.  And I hear some of the
Hollywood cats like to shoot them. 
Though I think they may be
compensating for something. 
They're big, expensive, and
expensive to shoot.  But then
why would Charlie Sheen ever
HAVE to go to a hooker anyway?
Why would Hugh Grant go to a
streetwalker?  Who knows?
Maybe he couldn't find Charlie
to get Heidi Fleiss' number
from him.
 
 
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Group: potadg Message: 34783 From: Neil T Foster Date: 1/6/2006
Subject: FW: [yg-alerts] Digest Number 3
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-----Original Message-----
From: yg-alerts@yahoogroups.com [yg-alerts@yahoogroups.com ]
Sent: Friday, 6 January 2006 10:45 PM
To: yg-alerts@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [yg-alerts] Digest Number 3


There is 1 message in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Downtime 6:00 pm (PST) tonight (January 5th)
From: "Gordon" <groups-feedback@...-inc.com>


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Group: potadg Message: 34784 From: Neil T Foster Date: 1/6/2006
Subject: Re: Within the Planet of the Apes strip #64
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--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, tshaf37@a... wrote:
> Can someone send me the
link to this comic stripe? I'm not sure where its at now?
 
-- Tom, I f you want to read Within the Planet of the Apes from the very first episode (and you want to see it in better detail than in the scaled down versions that we have been revisiting daily) you can now find all the chapters as PDF files at the  original DG Photos group:
 
Just check out the Within the Planet of the Apes folder.
 
You will have to join the DG Photos group to be able to access the files, it is easy and painless to do though. ;-)
 
Neil
 
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Group: potadg Message: 34785 From: patrickmichaeltilton Date: 1/6/2006
Subject: Re: "Disrespect" THIS!
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--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , LordTZer0@A... wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 1/4/2006 10:59:59 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> Haristas@a... writes:
>
> It has no "rights".
>
>
> It has copyrights.

*** I mentioned Copyrights in my post. I should also have added
Broadcast rights, since a TV channel like WTBS can't run "PLANET OF
THE APES" unless they purchase the rights to broadcast it.

But, Broadcast rights -- just like Copyrights -- are possessed by
people, or by a company owned by a person or a group of people, and
NOT by the Film itself. The movie "PLANET OF THE APES" is not a
person, it doesn't 'own' property. It IS a property! The rights
associated with it do not belong to IT, but to whomever HAS those
rights or PURCHASES them.

I've never seen the cheap-o version of "FANTASTIC FOUR" that Roger
Corman (I believe) made, when HE owned the rights to that Marvel
Comics property. The rights to that property were eventually
purchased by the studio that made the big budget version starring
Michael Chiklis (from the FX show "THE SHIELD") as the Thing, Jessica
Alba as Susan Storm/The Invisible Woman, etc etc. The right to make a
film version of that Marvel Comic was purchased BY a studio FROM a
studio, which first acquired those rights via purchasing them from
the company that owns Marvel Comics.

I've heard that they can't make a movie with both Spider-Man and
Daredevil in it due to the fact that the rights regarding those two
characters are owned by separate studios. The only way a "Spider-Man
Meets Daredevil" movie could get made is if the two studios made a
contract to make a film jointly. Like when Marvel and DC got together
to make that big Superman-Meets-Spider-Man comic. Marvel Comics
couldn't have included Superman in a Spider-Man comic book, due to DC
owning the rights to Superman -- but those two characters got
together in that oversize comic because the LEGAL RIGHTS had been
jointly contracted by both Marvel and DC.

The movie "PLANET OF THE APES" never had -- doesn't have -- and never
WILL have "rights", since the rights revolving around it are owned
NOT by the film itself but by the person or persons who currently own
them, or the company they own.

In order to make this new comic AND to publish it, Ty (or, the comic
book company that puts out this "REVOLUTION ON THE POTA" comic) had
to get the RIGHTS to do so. Unlike "BEWARE THE BEAST" and "WITHIN THE
PLANET OF THE APES" -- which are non-profit FAN-produced works --
this new comic could not be published unless the comic book company
had acquired the rights to publish and sell it. Let's ask Ty exactly
WHO they had to get those rights from. From a PERSON (on behalf of a
company), or from the movie "PLANET OF THE APES" and/or its sequels?

The films don't have rights. People have the right to be advocates of
the "stand-alone" opinion or the "sequels-inclusive" position. Rory
has the right to ignore/hate/deem irrelevant all the POTA sequels,
beginning with "BENEATH" and continuing all through the movies, the
TV show, the Marvel original stories, etc etc. Rory has that right.
Rory is a person, and PEOPLE have rights.

But a movie ain't a person! It CAN'T have rights. The only rights
involved are PROPERTY rights -- the movie "PLANET OF THE APES" is a
PROPERTY. One currently owned by 20th Century-Fox, right? They
haven't SOLD those rights, have they? UNIVERSAL had to BUY BACK the
rights to "KING KONG" in order for Jackson to make his new movie;
either that, or the right to make a remake of "KING KONG" devolved
back to Universal, after Dino de Laurentiis' "option" had expired.
Something like that.

Rory's free to imagine a world where ONLY the original "KING KONG"
exists -- NOT the sequel "SON OF KONG"... NOT the Japanese
movie "KING KONG VERSUS GODZILLA"... NOT the cartoon version (which
Al Hirt did a magnificent jazzy version of the theme song, on his
album "The Horn Meets the Hornet", by the way...)... NOT the De
Laurentiis version... NOT the sequel to that film, "KING KONG
LIVES!"... and NOT the recent remake currently in theaters. Rory's
free to imagine an original-"KING KONG"-only situation, one he
undoubtedly prefers to the reality that includes all those
sequels/remakes/etc. Nobody's forcing Rory to like any or all of
those later works of 'art'. He need not accept the notion that in
the "KING KONG" universe, Carl Denham went back to Skull Island and
encountered the son of King Kong. Just because UNIVERSAL made the
sequel, "SON OF KONG", doesn't mean that a fan MUST accept that
the "KING KONG" universe contains BOTH the original movie AND that
sequel. Just as no fan of the Universal film "FRANKENSTEIN" has to
accept "ABBOTT AND COSTELLO MEET FRANKENSTEIN" as part of the
same "universe".

The "right" Rory's all hot-headed about is a right that belongs only
to PEOPLE. His own right to ignore sequels to "KING KONG"
or "FRANKENSTEIN" or "PLANET OF THE APES". The right of OTHER people
to include "SON OF KONG" to the 'Kong Universe'... "BRIDE OF
FRANKENSTEIN" (etc) in the 'Frankenstein Universe'... and "BENEATH
THE PLANET OF THE APES" (etc) in the 'Planet of the Apes Universe'.

These "rights" are like the right to be a Catholic... a Protestant...
a follower of Judaism... a Muslim... a Scientologist... an Atheist.
Rory's 'POTA religion' (if you will) is that of "PLANET only", and
it's a sect I don't care to belong to. My 'POTA religion' (in terms
of the 'canon' I accept for "true" POTA) is "PLANET" + "BENEATH"
+ "ESCAPE + "CONQUEST" + the extended version of "BATTLE" + all 14 TV
episodes. Some people accept all 5 movies and NOT the TV show, and
some of them do not include the footage on the Japanese Laserdisc
version which ISN'T on the official American release -- thus, for
them there is no Doomsday Bomb in the ruined city, awaiting Alma's
triggering of it on reception of Kolp's signal. No matter WHAT the
screenplay says, or what David Gerrold's novelization says, or what
the purchasers of the Japanese Laserdisc saw.

To each their own.

Patrick
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Group: potadg Message: 34786 From: patrickmichaeltilton Date: 1/6/2006
Subject: POTA as a mansion... or something else
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--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Neil" <nfoster@h...> wrote:
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> > I think it's the only way to look at it.
> > The "Main House" was built first to
> > stand alone, with no thought of future
> > additions.
> >
> > If you step back, and look at the new
> > house you may not even notice the
> > additional rooms are "add ons". It
> > appears as one big mansion. But
> > on closer inspection you can see
> > by the writing that each one was
> > an afterthought. When looked at
> > closely, the seams show.
> >
> >
> > But the Main House was originally
> > built complete, in and of itself, with
> > no thought to any further expansion.
>
> -- That is very, very good T!
>
> Neil

*** I agree. Good analogy. I'm the kinda POTA fan who likes the whole
5-wing mansion, and -- even though the mansion wasn't designed as
such when construction began, on the original "core" of it -- the
whole mansion as it is now is more magnificent as a result. Had it
remained that single "core" house, it still would've been
magnificent. But smaller. Less roomy.

Here's another way to look at the POTA saga. "PLANET" is the banana
in a Dairy Queen extravaganza, with chocolate syrup & fudge & whipped
cream & crushed peanuts & butterscotch & ice cream with a cherry on
top added to it, to make it a dieter's nightmare yet a dessert-
lover's dream. Without the banana, it wouldn't really work. All the
rest is piled up onto the banana, and it's called a "Banana Split"
(or something like that), to accentuate the fact that the Banana is
the primary element in the delightful yet fattening dessert.

Patrick

P.S. I wonder if Zira would like -- rather than "loathe -- bananas if
she'd had 'em served with ice cream and all the rest. "Mmmm... ice
cream... ahhhh...!" (insert eyes-rolled-into-back-of-head, drooling
Homer Simpson here).
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Group: potadg Message: 34787 From: patrickmichaeltilton Date: 1/6/2006
Subject: Actors, their talent, etc.
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--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Rodney <wasitchu@o...> wrote:
>
> mlccougar@a... wrote:
>
> > In a message dated 1/5/2006 4:59:33 PM Central Standard Time,
> > wasitchu@o... writes:
> >
> >> So, I have a really hard time taking him serious when he states
that POTA "Was the worst acting job of his career." Unless he was
talking about Beneath the POTA
> >
> >
> >
> > He WAS talking about BENEATH...
>
> Thank you for clarifying that.
>
> RedAce
>
*** Most actors are probably overly critical of their own
performances. Even the Oscar-winners probably have a hard time
watching themselves on the screen, wondering if they could've
delivered a line better, that sort of thing. An actor who wins an
award is usually gracious enough to say that he (or she) thought that
one of the other actors who were nominated was gonna win it.

Michael Caine, when he won his last Oscar, said that he likes that
they don't say "And the winner is..." anymore, but "And the Oscar
goes to..." instead. They all WANT to 'win' the award, but they're
all honored to be nominated. And I'm sure they know that there often
are awards awarded to a film/director/performance that didn't really
deserve it, in light of its competition. I don't know anybody who
thought that "CHARIOTS OF FIRE" was a better film than "RAIDERS OF
THE LOST ARK", but the Oscar went to the former. If I had been a
member of the Academy, I'd have voted for "RAIDERS". Just because it
was an action-adventure flick doesn't mean it wasn't a better movie.

The impression I get is that actors tend to be overly critical of
their own performances, yet appreciative -- sometimes overly
adulatory -- regarding the performances of other great actors. Heston
acted opposite Lawrence Olivier in "KHARTOUM", and I'm sure he felt
his own performance was not as good as Olivier's. Didn't Chuck once
call Olivier the BEST actor of his time? I can't imagine him
thinking, "Damn! I acted better than Olivier in that picture!" Chuck
always seems, in interviews (to me), as if he's more competent to
judge the brilliance of another great actor's performance than to
judge his own performances.

I think Chuck -- like Bill Shatner -- is a better actor than he's
usually given credit for. Both have been accused of chewing-the-
scenery... "It's a MADHOUSE! A MADHOUUUUUUSE!" and "KHAAAANNNN!"
being representative of such over-the-top deliveries. But WITHOUT
that 'emphasis', Kirk would've been lacklustre and Taylor would've
been far less interesting. His environment calls out for such a
throat-rending bellowing, especially at that point.

As far as his performance in "BENEATH" goes, given the time he spent
on the production -- which he kept cutting shorter and shorter, to
Ted Post's consternation -- he certainly did a job that
was 'passable' at the very least! He didn't just "phone it in". The
vigor he exuded during that brutal fight scene with Brent... that
alone evinced his talent as not only an actor, but a PHYSICAL actor.
Quite frankly, I can't see Lawrence Olivier playing the role of
Taylor even a TENTH as well as Heston. He'd be mis-cast. And no
matter how great his acting ability, he didn't have what it takes to
do justice for that particular role. Some people were BORN to play
certain roles. The casting of "PLANET" was so on-the-money, with
Heston as Taylor, Kim as Zira, Roddy as Cornelius, and Maurice Evans
as Zaius. I still think he did a better job than Edward G. Robinson
ever could have. Not that Evans was a better actor, but that he was
the preferred choice to play Zaius. James Gregory as Ursus, too,
rather than Orson Welles. Ursus wouldn't have had the swagger, the
pomposity, that James Gregory gave him, if Welles had accepted the
role. Welles would've been at least GOOD in the part, but he wasn't
BORN to play that gorilla. Again, magnificent casting.

Patrick

P.S. Imagine Christopher Walken as Han Solo (he auditioned for the
part, and on SNL Kevin Spacey portrayed Walken auditioning for it,
doing the "Kessel Run" speech -- hilarious! Anybody other than
Harrison Ford... it just wouldn't have worked. He was BORN to play
that role. Good thing he did.
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Group: potadg Message: 34788 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 1/6/2006
Subject: Re: POTA as a mansion... or something else
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In a message dated 1/6/2006 12:09:52 P.M. Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:
*** I agree. Good analogy. I'm the kinda POTA fan who likes the whole
5-wing mansion
 
I'd stay out of that last wing if I were you.
The construction's a little shoddy.
 
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Group: potadg Message: 34789 From: patrickmichaeltilton Date: 1/6/2006
Subject: Crazy time-travel shite
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> [a] If you're going to contend that the APES series is a closed
timeline loop, then you not only deny PLANET of its right [b] to be a
singular work of art, but you also deny it the essence of what it is -
- an original [c].

*** Point [a] first: I do contend that the APES series -- the 5-film
series -- is a closed timeline loop, based on the evidence presented
on-screen in those sequels AND the evidence that Paul Dehn -- who
WROTE 'em -- indeed intended it to be as such. He stated this
plainly -- even so far as to assert that the so-called "ambiguous"
ending shot of "BATTLE" (the weeping Caesar statue) represented the
INABILITY of Caesar to change the Future; this, from page 211
of "PLANET OF THE APES REVISITED":

------------------------------------------------------------------
Dehn added one other significant difference to the Corrington draft.
While both versions were framed by the orangutan Lawgiver preaching
to ape and human children, the Corringtons ended their version with
kids from each species fighting on a playground, while Dehn chose to
go with the image of Caesar's grave, a statue of the chimpanzee
having been built on that spot, and a lone tear falling slowly from
its eye. Jacobs and company pushed for an alternate ending, but Dehn
couldn't come up with one that, he felt, worked better. This image,
he believed, supported his ultimately pessimistic view that the
future could not be changed.
------------------------------------------------------------------

Read that last sentence again: The final image we see in the 5-film
series is the ending that Dehn himself came up with -- an image that
supported HIS ultimately pessimistic view that THE FUTURE COULD NOT
BE CHANGED. That it was DOOMED to be caught up in that loop. That the
hopes Hasslein voiced -- that Man (and Ape?) could "change lanes" and
avoid that horrible Future -- a hope seconded later by Virgil -- was
just that: a HOPE.

It is a view that Armando certainly didn't accept: he said to
Cornelius and Zira, "I hate those who would alter Destiny, which is
the unalterable Will of God!" Armando, who doesn't even KNOW about
the Doomsday event portrayed in "BENEATH", believes that the universe
he lives in has a Destiny. An UNALTERABLE one.

I don't share Armando's belief that the Future is unalterable due to
the Will of a God, but I do accept the notion that the POTA universe
of the 5-film saga is unalterable for the simple fact that IF Caesar
were to change the Future, to prevent the detonation of the Doomsday
Bomb, then even if Zira (pregnant with him) were to somehow make it
up into orbit someday, there would be no Doomsday Bomb explosion.
No "bright, white, blinding light"... no melting of the rim of the
Earth... no "tornado in the sky"... no shockwave from that explosion
to slam into that spaceship. NO WAY FOR THE FETUS TO TRAVEL BACKWARDS
THROUGH TIME.

For IF that fetus doesn't get back to 1973, then Caesar cannot exist
in the late 20th century. And if he can't exist then-and-there, then
he can't play any role in attempting to prevent a future Doomsday.
His very own existence PROVES that he can't change the Future. He
can't eradicate his own existence. It's all CAUSE and EFFECT. Cause
first, and THEN effect. For Caesar, his conception -- which takes
place FIRST -- happens in the year 3955, and his birth -- which takes
place AFTER his conception -- happens in the year 1973. Because his
life encompasses both of those coordinates in SpaceTime, he himself
locks the Timeloop into place and NOTHING can ever change that. In
the 5-film POTA series, the Earth ceases to exist in 3955 and Time
continues onward... but with no Earth. It doesn't matter that the
year 3955 is 'after' 1973 in the POTA universe; the "SHIP-TIME" of
the ANSA vehicle Milo found experiences the year 3955 BEFORE it
experiences the year 1973. It bridges the gap, thanks to some sort of
wormhole through SpaceTime.

Next, Point [b]: I do deny the absurd notion that a MOVIE
has "rights". To say that a movie has "rights" is like saying that a
Bomb capable of destroying the entire planet is "God" or "God's
instrument on Earth" or "a holy weapon of peace". It's like saying
that the blow-up love doll actually LOVES the man who humps it! The
movie "PLANET OF THE APES"... the Doomsday Bomb... Rory's "Love
Doll"... they're all THINGS. They ain't PEOPLE. They can't THINK (on
a Human level) or FEEL. Only beings that CAN think and feel (on a
Human level) have rights. Legally, chimpanzees don't enjoy the
same "rights" we Humans do, because they can't think on a Human
level; as a result, laboratories have the "legal" right to perform
experiments on them. I, for one, am in favor of legislation which
enfranchises certain animal lifeforms to better treatment than that
which they currently endure. I think our laws should acknowledge that
Chimps (and other Apes) have the right to live their lives without
being subjected to experimentation by Humans, if that experimentation
involves physical trauma in any way, shape, or form. This would
exempt BEHAVIORAL experimentation, of course, of the sort Dixon and
Branton attempt with Zira. But I digress.

Lastly, Point [c]: But I do NOT deny that the movie "PLANET OF THE
APES" is an ORIGINAL. Of COURSE it is! Notwithstanding the fact that
it is a much-altered version of the story written in Boulle's "pre-
original" (?) novel, "LA PLANETE DES SINGES", which itself owes much
to the satirical story of Gulliver on the island of the Talking
Horses in Jonathan Swift's "GULLIVER'S TRAVELS".

Hell, if you want to define or redefine the word "original", that's a
whole 'nuther argument altogether. Is Bob Kane's character
Batman 'original'? Kane himself admitted that he based him -- in
part -- on Zorro! Yet, those things that Kane invented that flesh out
HIS dark-costumed adventurer do-gooder are indeed 'original' (the
name "Bruce Wayne", the setting of Gotham City -- a pseudo-NYC, the
origin story involving the murder of his parents, etc). Yet, if Zorro
had never existed, would we ever have had a Batman? Probably not. So,
does that mean that Batman isn't an original, in Rory's sense of the
word?

Who cares! The character Batman EXISTS. The movie "PLANET OF THE
APES" exists, and it ain't gonna vanish from the universe just
because APJAC Productions made sequels to it! Each viewer has the
right to evaluate it based on their own idiosyncratic sensibilities.

If you WANT to ignore the sequels, you can imagine that after the
ending of "PLANET" any of a number of DIFFERENT things happen to
Taylor, NONE of 'em involving telepathic Bomb-worshipping mutants
living under the surface of the Forbidden Zone. And in THAT alternate
sequel to "PLANET" there never were any "secret scrolls" for
Cornelius and Zira to read about a Plague & Apes as Pets, Apes as
Slaves, an ape named Aldo saying "NO" to a human slaveowner, etc etc.

If that's the POTA scenario Rory prefers -- a "BENEATH"-less (etc)
story that differs after the Statue of Liberty shot -- then that's
his choice. His right. He can go off into a corner and pretend that
the other films don't exist all he wants. And those who prefer his
way can go and join him.

I, for one, prefer having "PLANET" accompanied by its 4 sequel films
and 14 TV episodes, no matter that none of them match the
first 'original' film's magnificence. I could easily do without half
of "RETURN OF THE JEDI" (the Ewok stuff) and all three prequels
to "STAR WARS", but when it comes to POTA, I want all the filmed
stuff -- Burton's film excepted -- to 'count'. To be the 'canon'.
That's MY choice, MY right. These rights belong to PEOPLE. The first
movie isn't a person, and it'll never be cognizant of all this
ballyhooing and belly-aching over "original"-ness and all that. Just
as the Bomb wasn't REALLY a God. Just as that blow-up doll doesn't
REALLY love the dude who humps it. "It" CAN'T! It ain't a "she". It's
an "it". It's made of rubber, not flesh. Rory can love It (and call
it a "she"), but that don't make it a flesh-and-blood woman who loves
him back!

There's a difference between the spaceships in "STAR TREK" and
in "FARSCAPE". In "STAR TREK", Kirk refers to the Enterprise as if it
were a woman, in the episode "THE NAKED TIME"... he personifies it,
voicing the romantic notion that "she" takes & takes & takes from
him, but never gives him what he needs in return. But his ship is NOT
a woman! In his out-of-control overemotionality (caused by that
contaminant brought aboard by that careless ensign), Kirk extends
HUMAN traits to his ship.

On the other hand, in "FARSCAPE" the ship in which the main
characters fly around the Galaxy is indeed a LIVING organism of a
sort. It DOES have a sentience within it. It isn't poetic romanticism
for that ship's pilot to refer to it as a living thing, since it HAS
such traits.

The movie "PLANET OF THE APES" is not alive. It doesn't think. It
doesn't feel. It doesn't have rights because of this. All the rights
concerned with "PLANET" are rights owned by a company (20th Century
Fox) or viewer-based rights to appreciate it on either of several
levels. Rory's way. My way. Mike's way. Cougar's way. T's way. As a
stand-alone work. As the 1st in a 5-film saga.

Whatever floats your boat.

It doesn't matter what the Library of Congress did or said in 2001,
when it put "PLANET" on that National Film Registry. What about all
the time PRIOR to them doing that? Did they make "PLANET" better than
it had already been? Was "PLANET" itself lacking in any way? Had it
been a "lesser" film before the Library of Congress deigned to put it
on their list of exalted films?

NO!

They merely ACKNOWLEDGED its magnificence and honored it by putting
it on a list. "PLANET" didn't become a better film overnight, just
because it was put onto a list! It was magnificent from DAY ONE. The
moment it was put into the final form it has been in since its first
showing in 1968 it became a Classic. I don't need the Library of
Congress to tell me it's a great film. I don't need a critic to
convince me it's great -- I don't always agree with critics I tend to
agree with, so why would any other person's opinion sway me, when I
have MY OWN ability to evaluate it?

As for how any of this nonsense pertains to the Timeline arguments
we've been having, it's all one big shake-of-the-head and roll-of-the-
eyes. It has NOTHING to do with it. If ONLY the 1st film is to be
considered, then there is only ONE timeline: the one that began in
the remote Past... led to the birth of Taylor (etc), and the creation
of the ANSA spaceships... led to the launch of Taylor's ship in the
middle of January, 1972, and the subsequent BENDING of Time as that
ship flew FORWARDS through Time at nearly the speed of light towards
its destination, so that in 18 months of SHIP-TIME the Earth ages a
little over 2,000 years (of EARTH-TIME). The year 3955 doesn't come
into the picture at all. No mutants. No Ursus. No missing scouts. No
invasion of the Forbidden Zone. No Doomsday Bomb. No Taylor KNOWING
about the Alpha Omega bomb. No Landon-in-the-Zaius-Museum. No Milo.
NONE OF ALL THAT, if we're only to consider the original "PLANET" and
NOT any of the sequels.

We're left with ONE SINGLE TIMELINE. Not more than one. No "change"
in Time, causing any so-called "Second Changed Timeline" to branch
off from the Doomsday one. Unlike the movie "BACK TO THE FUTURE",
in "PLANET OF THE APES" there is ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE of there
being a change in Time, the creation of a Parallel Universe where
things happen differently. Remember how Marty McFly's hometown
originally had a "Twin Pines Mall" (or whatever) and then -- after
his adventure back to the year 1955, when the DeLorean ran over one
of those pine trees -- the CHANGED universe suddenly had caused a
renaming of it, to "Lone Pine Mall"??? THAT is an example of
a "changed" timeline, a creation of a parallel universe where things
are SLIGHTLY different because of an action having been taken in the
Past that hadn't happened 'originally'.

Nothing in "PLANET OF THE APES" fits such a scenario. Not if you take
that movie as a stand-alone, single entity, unencumbered by the
sequels.

It is ONLY when the sequels are brought into play that the question
of a changed timeline (or not) has to be addressed. Did the time
traveling of the Ape-onauts, in effect, "run over one of the two pine
trees" and actually bring about a Change? In "BACK TO THE FUTURE",
Marty McFly almost disappears from existence when the woman who
otherwise WOULD become his mother almost doesn't fall in love with
George McFly. We learn in the 3rd BTTF movie that Doc Brown was
murdered in 1885 by Biff's old west ancestor -- and, by going back in
Time from 1955 to 1885, Marty PREVENTS that death, erasing from the
NEW timeline -- the newly-created one -- that murder and death.

But one could easily argue that the BTTF scenario -- as entertaining
as it is -- is impossible. How can Marty disappear from existence if
his mother falls in love with him in the first place? If his
existence is eradicated, then who can she fall in love with in place
of George McFly, since "Calvin Klein" will never have existed in the
first place?

In that BTTF universe -- or, I should say, universes -- Marty McFly
didn't travel back in Time to the same universe he was born in: he
travelled into a parallel universe, which branches off from "his"
universe. He makes "changes" which aren't really changes: they're the
events that THAT 'other' universe experiences, including the
emergence out of Nowhere (from a parallel universe, the 'original'
one) of a "Future Boy" who would have to have an ALTERNATE VERSION
living in this different, parallel universe.

When Marty McFly later travels "back to the future", from 1955 to
1985, HE SHOULD MEET THE 'OTHER' VERSION OF HIMSELF, the one who has
absolutely no knowledge or experience of having gone back through
Time. Not unless that 'other' version of himself had, himself, gone
back in Time in a similar Time Machine AND TO YET ANOTHER PARALLEL
UNIVERSE'S PAST.

In other words, Marty "A" goes back from 1985 of Universe "A" to 1955
of Universe "B"... has his adventure... travels forward to 1985 of
that SAME Universe "B", where Marty "B" (a parallel version of
himself, and NOT his original, real self) had left at the same "time"
when Marty "A" left HIS universe, back to 1955 of Universe "C".

Perhaps THAT Marty ("B") had failed to get his Mom to hook up with
George McFly, resulting in the ERASING of Marty "B" from Existence.
Thus, THAT Marty ("B") never gets to go forward to 1985 of
Universe "C", a time (in that 3rd universe) when THERE IS NO MARTY
MCFLY, since George never got the girl, who wound up marrying Biff
Tannen or some other guy. Or got killed in a car crash. Or who moved
away to some other town and was befriended by a lesbian
who 'converted' her, and led to her never becoming impregnated by ANY
smelly man.

Actually, Marty "B" could never be erased from existence, even if
his 'Mom' ("C") never had a baby with George McFly "C". There might
never be a Marty "C", but Marty "B" had his existence created in
another universe, a parallel universe -- Universe "B". Unless he had
a machine that not only could go backwards and forwards through Time,
but ALSO to any parallel universe conceivable, with a gauge that
could pinpoint the EXACT parallel universe. Even so, he could never
create a Paradox in his own personal Timeline -- he couldn't go back
to the day of his 13th birthday and have sex with his younger self,
since he -- when he WAS that 13-year-old -- never experienced that
homoautoerotic stimulation from any older-version of himself.

It's a shame that in so many stories about Time Travel, the author
doesn't cross all his T's and dot all his I's. If one postulates that
there isn't and never will be any universe OTHER than the single one
we live in, then nobody can ever create a paradox -- say, by
murdering his own father prior to that man's impregnation of the
murderer's mother. If one postulates that there are an infinite
number of Universes, all existing parallel to each other (like in
the "STAR TREK" episode "Mirror, Mirror"), then IF a Time Traveler
were to go backwards in Time to an event and "change" it, all he
would be accomplishing would be in a universe that is NOT the one he
lived in prior to his Trip -- those "changes" were merely the events
that happened in the SINGLE timeline of that parallel universe, a
universe where there might be TWO versions of the SAME person, if he
has gone back in Time to a time after his own birth. If I had such a
time machine, I could go back in Time just ONE YEAR and
meet 'myself'... but he wouldn't be myself! He would be the version
of me that had lived in that parallel universe, and who shared with
me all the memories I had up until that moment when he met me, 'his'
one-year-older doppelganger from a parallel universe. If I were to
murder that Alternate Me, my own life would go on, and I could take
his place, though I would look and be a year older than he was. Or,
he and I could both live in that same universe, going our separate
ways... or hanging out together as the best of friends. The universe
we live in would have TWO versions of me, and that would be balanced
out by the nonexistence (anymore) of ANY version of me in the
universe where I had originated. I could never "change" the Past of
that original universe; I could only commit actions in that parallel
universe, causing its timeline to unfold in a different direction. I
will not have changed that universe's path: by entering that parallel
universe, I will have become a PART of that universe.

In the POTA movie sequels, Hasslein and Virgil claim that there are
an infinite number of lanes ("universes"), and that we can change
lanes, change Futures. But they don't KNOW it for a fact. It is mere
speculation. It is Belief. That is what Hasslein terms it, in his
interview with Bill Bonds. He BELIEVES it is possible to change the
Future; in other words, he believes the Ape-onauts MAY have come from
a parallel universe where the Earth winds up being destroyed, and
that they entered a parellel universe when they time-traveled into
their Past, so that the Future of HIS universe may unfold in a
different way. Yet NOTHING Hasslein does thwarts that Future of Ape
Dominance: he dies believing (perhaps) that he succeeded... but he
doesn't know that the baby chimp he shot and killed was NOT Zira's
son, but the primitive chimp daughter of Heloise, Salome. Try as he
might, he didn't succeed. Try as he might, Breck too failed to kill
the Talking Ape.

And, try as he might, Caesar too will fail to prevent Doomsday. He
doesn't seem to realize that he owes his very existence (in the 20th
and 21st centuries) to his EARLIER self-time existence in the year
3955. He can no more change that Future than he can unpop his cherry
after he nails that Breeding Annex chimpette. And that's a fact!

Patrick
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Group: potadg Message: 34790 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 1/6/2006
Subject: Re: POTA as a mansion... or something else
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In a message dated 1/6/2006 12:09:52 P.M. Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:
I wonder if Zira would like -- rather than "loathe -- bananas if
she'd had 'em served with ice cream and all the rest.
 
I never did find out what kind of ice cream she likes.
Maybe she though I would send her a 5-gallon drum.
But there's a lot of calcium in there.  Good for her
hip after the fall.  Not so good for the heart though.
Who'd have though such a skinny lady would have
heart trouble. I knew she had a big heart, but enlarged?
 
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Group: potadg Message: 34791 From: Haristas@aol.com Date: 1/6/2006
Subject: Wal-Mart Apologizes for Racist Software Glitch
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Wal-Mart Apologizes for Racist Software Glitch
Wal-Mart's attempt to mimic Amazon, NetFlix, and Blockbuster by providing an automated system that recommends movies based on the types of DVDs its customers previously ordered came to a crashing halt Thursday after blogs spread the word that the Planet of the Apes DVD was linked to "Similar Items" that included DVDs about Martin Luther King, Dorothy Dandridge, Jack Johnson and Tina Turner -- all notable African Americans. "We are heartsick that this happened and are currently doing everything possible to correct the problem," Wal-Mart spokeswoman Mona Williams said in a statement. "We were horrified to discover that some hurtful and offensive combinations are being mapped together. ... We are deeply sorry that this happened." The company gave no explanation for how the software program managed to select only films about African-Americans for the recommendations.
 
 
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Group: potadg Message: 34792 From: Haristas@aol.com Date: 1/6/2006
Subject: Re: Crazy time-travel shite
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 *** Point [a] first: I do contend that the APES series -- the 5-film
series -- is a closed timeline loop, based on the evidence presented
on-screen in those sequels AND the evidence that Paul Dehn -- who
WROTE 'em -- indeed intended it to be as such. He stated this
plainly -- even so far as to assert that the so-called "ambiguous"
ending shot of "BATTLE" (the weeping Caesar statue) represented the
INABILITY of Caesar to change the Future; this, from page 211
of "PLANET OF THE APES REVISITED":
 
But Patrick you don't understand... I consider Paul Dehn a "disrespector" of the original POTA too!
I'm not too fond of the guy.
 
-- Rory
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Group: potadg Message: 34793 From: Haristas@aol.com Date: 1/6/2006
Subject: Re: Wal-Mart Apologizes for Racist Software Glitch
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Here's more on this story.... 
 
Wal-Mart 'heartsick' over DVD grouping
No. 1 retailer apologizes for bizarre racial combinations on Web site, spoofs poor sales in song.
January 6, 2006: 11:35 AM EST

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) - Wal-Mart is ringing in the new year with a pair of snafus.
The retail giant apologized Thursday after its Web site directed buyers of "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory" and "Planet of the Apes" DVDs to consider DVDs with African American themes.
Wal-Mart said in a statement it was "heartsick" over the offensive combinations and that its retail Web site was linking "seemingly random combinations of titles."
The company said it would shut down its cross-selling system until the problem was resolved. It said the system was also referring buyers of movies such as "Home Alone" and "Power Puff Girls" to African American-themed DVDs.
Wal-Mart's apology came less than a week after the company played a spoof song about its disappointing holiday season on a recorded company phone message.
The company played a remake of the Christmas classic "Up on the Housetop" during its weekly recorded sales update Saturday, Reuters reported. By Thursday, the song was no longer on Wal-Mart's recording.
The song, which joked about the retailer's holiday sales performance and included a reference to the infamous limited laptop computers it sold and which caused customer brawls, risked angering investors, public relations experts told Reuters.
"People get kind of emotional about their money," Christopher Atkins, head of the global corporate practice at public relations firm Ogilvy, told Reuters.
He said there are times when humor is an effective tool for companies, but when things are not going well, it can appear as if managers are trivializing major problems.
-- from staff and wire reports
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Haristas@...
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 17:28:37 -0500
Subject: [PotaDG] Wal-Mart Apologizes for Racist Software Glitch

 
Wal-Mart Apologizes for Racist Software Glitch
Wal-Mart's attempt to mimic Amazon, NetFlix, and Blockbuster by providing an automated system that recommends movies based on the types of DVDs its customers previously ordered came to a crashing halt Thursday after blogs spread the word that the Planet of the Apes DVD was linked to "Similar Items" that included DVDs about Martin Luther King, Dorothy Dandridge, Jack Johnson and Tina Turner -- all notable African Americans. "We are heartsick that this happened and are currently doing everything possible to correct the problem," Wal-Mart spokeswoman Mona Williams said in a statement. "We were horrified to discover that some hurtful and offensive combinations are being mapped together. ... We are deeply sorry that this happened." The company gave no explanation for how the software program managed to select only films about African-Americans for the recommendations.
 
 


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Group: potadg Message: 34795 From: patrickmichaeltilton Date: 1/6/2006
Subject: Scrolls -- the Sacred and the Secret
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--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , LordTZer0@A... wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 1/5/2006 8:45:46 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> Haristas@a... writes:
>
> PLANET cannot depend on the existence of its sequels. It's simply
an
> unacceptable artistic paradox.
>
>
> And to say, well when Zira and Cornelius read the secret texts it
said, get in a spaceship and go back in time to have your baby and
he'll take over the world, but lie, and make up some daft shit about
Aldo, I just don't buy it.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

*** That's not what those "SECRET SCROLLS" say, and you're
mischaracterizing what I say about 'em.

Those scrolls say that:

1) God created Beast and Man, so that both might live in friendship
and share dominion over a world at peace.

2) Evil men betrayed God's trust and -- in disobedience to His holy
word -- waged war against himself AND against the Apes, whom they had
reduced to slavery.

3) God, in His wrath, sent the world a Savior.

4) The Savior's parents -- not named in that scroll, just called "the
parent apes" -- had "descended on Earth from Earth's own future".

5) Those "parent apes" were brutally murdered.

6) But their son survived. He grew to adulthood and was raised by a
kind Man who loved all Beasts, and who knew God's will. When he was
but a boy of 10, Caesar saw how all the Dogs and Cats -- Man's pets --
had died from the effects of a devastating Plague. And, eight years
after that Plague, Caesar's foster-father was then murdered by an
evil Man, who enslaved Caesar. He put Caesar to death... and God
resurrected the Savior from Death! And then, with the power of God to
aid him, Caesar destroyed the army of the tyrant. Then Caesar led the
Apes out of the tyrant's city, having been forewarned that God would
harden the hearts of the Human tyrants of the world. Caesar led the
Apes out into the forests, into the green, growing world God had
intended all His chosen creatures to enjoy.

7) Then, 15 years later, Man waged the vilest war in Man's history,
flattening the cities of the world.

8) Out of one such city, the Savior -- named Caesar -- had led his
people... out into a "greener pasture" where he then ruled over the
surviving Apes and those Humans who obeyed the Will of God, and
sought to live under the dominion of a King of Peace.

Here's where I give my run-down on how that "Secret Scroll" told the
story that we see in "BATTLE". You'll notice that it differs from
what REALLY happened, reflecting the notion that this Story had been
told... and retold... and retold... and perhaps rewritten over and
over again, by scribes born centuries after the death of Caesar,
trying to make sense of the oldest version of the story. This Scroll,
in the form Cornelius reads it, dates back to the year 2670 at the
latest, around 600 years after the death of King Caesar.

9) Caesar, at the age of 45, discovers that it is the Will of God
that he attain knowledge of both Death and Life: of Hell and Heaven.
So he goes on an epic voyage into Hell, where he meets the ghosts of
his murdered parents (who had descended from Heaven to speak with him
and to comfort him in that land of the Dead). They tell him that the
world will be destroyed in the year 3950 -- which he knows is 1,932
years in the Future. That "End of the World" will happen because it
is the Will of God. And, just before the End, there will be a war
involving gorillas who -- like the Humans of old -- betrayed God's
trust and waged war against God's chosen people, causing God Himself
to destroy the World, so that His chosen people could dwell in
Eternity, finding peace in Heaven.

10) Caesar learns from the ghosts of his parents that God had sent
them back in Time to just before the Fall of Man, so that their son
could fulfill the Destiny that God intended for him: to be the Savior
of the world, by ruling over Apes and Men at the founding of their
civilization, fully cognizant of the Divine Purpose and fully assured
that God's Plan would culminate in the Reward of the Virtuous, the
peace that can only be found in Heaven.

11) Caesar emerged from Hell, and made his way back to his kingdom.

12) Then an ape -- a gorilla named ALDO -- who hated Caesar, because
Caesar had shown favor to Humans above that of Gorillas -- became
filled with the spirit of Evil, and murdered the Heir of Caesar, a
young boy named Cornelius.

13) In response to this evil act, God let loose his wrath, empowering
the Devil to open the gates of Hell and swarm the land with Ghouls...
the Lost Souls of those Humans who had waged the vilest war in
history, a mere 12 years earlier. To remind the Apes that Man's way
led to War and Death... and Hell. To teach them that Apes must learn
a NEW way, a way that leads to Peace and Life... and Heaven.

14) Caesar, at God's insistence, carried out the Vengeance of the
Almighty... by executing the murderer of the Heir of the Savior. APE
SHALL NEVER KILL APE... and if an Ape should commit murder, it is
God's Will that the murderer should be put to death.

15) After the Justice of God was served, and His wrath placated by
the blood of the murderer, Aldo, King Caesar was able to cleanse his
kingdom... driving back the Evil Spirits who had haunted the land
back to Hell. Restoring the peace God intended for His chosen people.

16) Caesar, before his death, preached to his people -- both Ape and
Man -- that it was the Will of God that they live together in Peace,
and that IF they lived peacefully with each other, God would reward
them with Salvation: a place in Heaven. Their spirits would live
forever, in Eternity.

- - - - - - -

When Cornelius first reads this "Secret Scroll" -- the oldest version
of the Creation Myth and the Caesar Epic -- it is sometime after the
events of "PLANET OF THE APES" and before the end of "BENEATH THE
PLANET OF THE APES".

Nowhere in the scroll does it mention a "spaceship". Nor does it
mention the NAMES of the "parent apes" of King Caesar... apes who had
descended on Earth from Earth's own future, having been sent into the
Past by God Himself in order to fulfill a Divine Plan.

Cornelius, by the time he reads the scroll, knows that the ancient
calendar which was in use when the scroll had been written gives the
current year as 3955 -- which is a date 5 years AFTER the date of the
End of the World, as given in the scroll. "Thirty-Nine Fifty". In the
year 3950, Dr. Zaius had been sweating bullets, scared to death that
Doomsday was about to happen -- because he knows that the SACRED
SCROLLS were written AFTER the older, "Secret Scrolls"... and he
knows that the Lawgiver had been a Revisionist, that he had LIED
about the beginning of the Ape Civilization, RE-WRITING the Creation
Myth and erasing the story of Caesar.

But... when the year 3950 passes by without incident... when no
gorilla-led army has waged a vile war like that of the ancient evil
Humans who had betrayed God's trust... Zaius begins to breathe a sigh
of relief. Perhaps that old scroll -- which virtually NO ape knows
about, save him -- was wrong. Perhaps the Will of God had been
changed -- perhaps God changed His mind, and decided that Apes had
learned to live in Innocence (via Ignorance of the Man-dominated
Past, of Caesar, of Aldo, etc), and that their Innocence deserved to
be rewarded. The Earth need not be destroyed, if the Gorillas do not
learn the ways of Man and seek to wage an ungodly war...

Cornelius, reading that scroll in 3955, is fascinated by the story
told in it... but he doesn't believe it is literally true in any
regard. He doesn't believe in Hell... in the Evil Spirits mentioned
in the Scroll... in the ability of any ape -- even this mythic "King
Caesar" -- to literally descend into Hell and learn about the Future
from the ghosts of his dead parents.

It's nothing but an epic story about a mythic epic hero. The first
Ape king. A story written in a time -- BEFORE the Lawgiver rewrote
Ape History and buried all knowledge of Man's dominant Past -- when
knowledge of Man's pre-Caesar civilization was COMMON. A human
civilization that existed from the BEGINNING of that ancient calendar
(from Year One) all the way to the year 2,006: the year when Man
waged that "vilest war" in Man's History.

Caesar knows -- due to his methods of dating the Past -- that the
artifacts of the more advanced ancient culture which he found in his
Cave date back to that very era. Roughly two thousand years before
his Present.

When he reads that scroll, he learns of the existence of that ancient
calendar, which dates the World from Year 1... the Fall of Man in the
year 2006... and the End of the World in the year 3950... AND the
present year as 3955. The scroll was right (as far as his
archaological studies are concerned) regarding the dating of the
fossil evidence from his Cave -- the Fall of Man. But that scroll is
WRONG about the date of the End of the World. It is 5 years after
that date of Doomsday. It is curious and amusing that he happened to
be alive in the very year when an old unknown scroll had predicted
the world would be destroyed by God. All the more proof, though, that
it was a work of FICTION. Fiction with, perhaps, some elements in it
that MIGHT be historical. MAYBE there was a "historical Caesar" and
a "historical Aldo". It would amuse Cornelius that his own name dates
back to the time when that scroll was written -- that his name was
once the same as the "literary character" of the martyred heir of
King Caesar.

Shortly after Brent leaves their home... shortly after Ursus and
Zaius leave with the Army out of Ape City on their campaign into the
Forbidden Zone... Milo shows up and urges them to pack some
necessities for a quick, urgent trip. They know and respect him --
he's a genius far in advance of his time. He bailed 'em out of jail
after that Tribunal hearing. They owe him a great deal. They trust
him. And he's URGENT... they MUST go with him, travel with him to a
place where--they'll see for themselves!

He leads them to the landing site of the 3rd ANSA shuttle. They get
into the vehicle. They see the words on all the buttons. Words like
PRIMARY POWER and AUXILIARY POWER and PORT THRUST and STBD THRUST and
AFT THRUST... They see the two clocks, one marked EARTH-TIME and the
other marked SHIP-TIME, giving the MONTH - DAY - YEAR... with the
EARTH-TIME clock reading 8-27-3955 and the SHIP-TIME clock reading 9-
11-1973. By this time, Cornelius knows that that ancient calendar
reckoned the year as "3955" -- and that this metallic ship (shaped
like that folded paper Taylor threw across his office) uses the SAME
year-number! The other date -- the SHIP-TIME reading -- gives a
yeardate that is almost 2,000 years earlier, from the very epoch when
Man once ruled the world... a mere 33 years before Man waged
that "vilest war" and destroyed his own civilization.

Cornelius doesn't know that he's about to fly up into Outer Space
with Milo and Zira. He doesn't know he's going to go backwards
through Time, after having seen the world DESTROYED.

They get into the ship. Milo presses a button -- perhaps a button
which initiates a pre-programmed surface-to-orbit flight program.
Strapped into the chairs, wearing the spacesuits that they'd found
abandoned in the ship, the Trio blasts off from the beach, up up up
into the sky. They see the sky darken... they're in Space.

Then they see a bright white BLINDING light. They see, from the
windows of the spaceship, the rim of the Earth MELT. Then the
shockwave hits the ship... it spins around and around, as if caught
in a tornado. They're in a "tornado in the sky".

Milo notices the EARTH-TIME clock clicking BACKWARDS... and he brings
it to the attention of the other two, who notice it but are too
freaked out to realize what it might mean. Milo himself thinks that
the shockwave that hit them "unbalanced the mechanism" in some
fashion. He doesn't know that Time in the Universe outside the ship
is flowing BACKWARDS. Not yet.

After a bit, the "AUTOMATIC RE-ENTRY SEQUENCE" kicks in, and this
ANSA vehicle fires retro-rockets, to slow its descent... but to
Where? They saw the Earth destroyed... they saw it MELT! Are they
falling into a sea of lava?

They splash into the water. Just south of Ventura, California, in the
SE corner of Sector Alpha Charlie. It isn't lava. It's water. How can
that be?

They eventually see, out the windows, the bizarre and frightening
image of a Helicopter flying towards them... around them... What the
hell IS that thing???

Soon after, another helicopter approaches, and two black-garbed
persons jump out of the flying machine into the water. They can see
that these strange beings have human proportions, though they have
strange-looking flippers for feet.

The ship is towed to shore. They, looking out the windows, can see
the frenetic activity on the shore... the HUMANS running to and fro,
wearing strange clothing and head-wear, carrying weapons, riding
along in horseless wagons. They all agree, before they arrive at the
beach, before the port hatch is opened up, that they should remain
SILENT for the time being. It's best not to offend the weapon-
wielding humans who have pulled them onto the beach.

After the strange events of that day, they eventually find themselves
in a cage at the Los Angeles Zoo. Zira and Cornelius are still
freaked out by the strange environment they find themselves in, but
Milo is calmer. He knows where they are. He reminds them of that
bizarre moment during the flight... when the EARTH-TIME clock,
the "date meter", began to click BACKWARDS. They had all seen the
EARTH-TIME clock click backwards from 08-27-3955 until it matched the
date on the other clock: 09-11-1973. A time period of nearly TWO
THOUSAND YEARS. Somehow... and Milo lacks the intellect to know
precisely how... they traveled from Earth's Future (their own
Present) to Earth's Past.

Absurd! And yet... what other explanation is there? The "date meter"
had clicked backwards -- they all saw it. They've encountered a
spellbinding HUMAN culture -- TALKING humans! -- who undoubtedly were
masters of Metallurgy... just like the ones who had to have made
those strange artifacts Cornelius had found in that Cave.

Before they know it, Milo is murdered by a Gorilla in the next cage.
They are alone... just Cornelius and Zira. His pregnant wife Zira.

At some point, then, Cornelius remembers that highly improbable
scroll he had read recently. That strange old mythic tale of King
Caesar, with all its obviously fictional elements.

It spoke of two "parent apes" who had "descended on Earth from
Earth's own future"...

Could it... could it BE, Cornelius wonders? Could it be that there
WAS an ape named "Caesar" who once lived... long before their time? A
historical source for the Myth story? Could that ancient epic hero,
the great King Caesar... could he be growing in Zira's womb at this
very minute???

Cornelius would have to consider the possibility. He would have to
weigh the facts as he knows them, evaluate the old scroll as best he
could, in a scientific fashion. He would have to sift the details of
that ancient story, to see what elements MUST be purely fictional
embellishment and what OTHER elements may indeed be based on an
actual historical figure, who experienced a story that must have been
SIMILAR if not exactly identical to the tale told in that scroll.

According to that scroll, Caesar was born in the Year 1973 of that
ancient calendar, 18 years before his Death, Resurrection, and defeat
of the human Tyrant who had enslaved him and executed him.

According to the scroll's calendar, 10 years after the birth of
Caesar (and the murder of his parents) a Plague would strike the
world, killing all the Dogs and Cats -- in 1983. Three years after
that, Man would begin to add Apes to his list of Pets, in 1986.

TWO YEARS after Man took Apes as household pets, in 1988, Man began
to force them to do chores. Man turned their pet Apes into slaves.

And... THREE YEARS later, in 1991, Caesar's human foster-father was
murdered, and Caesar was enslaved. And executed. And then God
resurrected him from Death itself!

Some 15 years later, in 2006, Man would destroy his own glorious
civilization -- flattening his own cities in the vilest war of Man's
history.

And... 12 years after that, in 2018, Caesar would descend into
Hell... meet the ghosts of his slain parents, who would tell him of
the Future where they had come from... and emerge again into the land
of the Living.

And an evil gorilla named Aldo would murder his Heir, a young
chimpanzee named Cornelius.

Cornelius (Zira's husband), reading this, would perhaps suspect that
Zira's unborn child will indeed become the mythologized King Caesar.
Oh, he might not literally descend into Hell -- just as the ancient
King Gilgamesh probably didn't really experience the adventures that
are recorded in the Epic of Gilgamesh. But... it is possible that
Caesar -- if, indeed, their unborn son is destined to be him -- would
one day beget an heir, a son whom he would name 'Cornelius'.

WHY would he name him Cornelius? Perhaps he named him after his own
father, whose name is never mentioned in that scroll! The
father "parent ape" may have been named 'Cornelius' -- prompting
Caesar to name his own son with that same name. Perhaps there were
later genealogies showing a tendency of famous apes of antiquity
naming their children after their own fathers, with firstborn sons
being named the Heir, inheriting his own Grandfather's name, as a
tradition.

When it comes time for Cornelius and Zira to be interrogated by
Hasslein at Camp Eleven, Cornelius knows -- or believes, anyway --
that it is not only POSSIBLE but PROBABLE that Zira's unborn son is,
indeed, the historical source of the mythic hero King Caesar, from
that 1,300-year-old epic.

Cornelius knows that that old epic gives only 33 years for the
advanced civilization of Man to endure -- the epic told of the Fall
of Man in the year 2006.

Rather than tell Hasslein that in 33 years Man will have destroyed
his own world, and that Ape Civilization will control what is left of
the world thereafter... Cornelius tells Hasslein the main elements of
the story told in that epic --

-- but he does NOT tell him the name of the Ape Savior, nor does he
even tell his story. He tells about the Plague that killed the Dogs
and Cats... how Man replaced his lost pets with Apes...

And how, "two centuries" after having made pets of Apes -- which
Cornelius knows, in reality, the scroll dates as "TWO YEARS" -- Man
began to ENSLAVE the Apes.

Zira -- who had also read the scroll, and who (like Cornelius) also
speculated and then later believed that they were the "parent apes"
of Caesar -- follows Cornelius' lead, and changes the "THREE MORE
YEARS" line of the original scroll -- referring to the period of Ape
Slavery -- to "three more centuries", inflating the figure by a
factor of 100. Turning "years" into "centuries". Telling the truth in
all but the dating of events.

LET them believe they'll be Lords of the Earth for another 500 years!
Let them grow confident that they can commit any evil they wish,
fooled into believing that Time is not their enemy!

Let them forget Cornelius' testimony to the Commission, that Apes --
in their time -- had been speaking English for nearly two thousand
years!

Let them not worry about an IMMINENT overthrow of their civilization,
and a "turning-the-tables" coup by the Apes. Let 'em think it's half
a millennium in the future.

What a surprise they'll get when Apes wage their revolt in a mere 18
years! When their unborn child -- their son, who will one day be
written of as King Caesar, the Savior of the World -- leads the
revolt against the evil reign of mad human tyrants.

The scroll also spoke of an evil gorilla named Aldo... who murdered
the Heir of Caesar.

Who would one day murder his very own grandson. A child ape who
shared his very name.

Cornelius would want to save his unborn son's Heir, his own grandson,
if it were at all possible. According to the scroll, Cornelius and
Zira will soon be brutally murdered -- but their son will survive.
Yet they won't be around to protect them, to teach them, to warn them
about the upcoming events that will shake the globe.

Cornelius tries to plant the seeds of a murder. Cornelius wants Aldo
to be killed BEFORE he can get a chance to become the murderer of
King Caesar's heir. But HOW can he put Aldo in harm's way?

He tells Hasslein that the first Ape to REFUSE to obey Man --
according to that scroll -- was "an ape named Aldo".

By revealing the name of ALDO -- and NOT the name of the true Ape
Savior, CAESAR -- Cornelius hopes that Mankind, somehow, will single
out any and every "Aldo" for persecution. If a human slaveowner names
his slave "Aldo", perhaps Hasslein (or one of his goons) will arrange
for that ape to suffer an 'accident'. Hasslein's goons would kill
Aldo, Cornelius muses, out of a sense of self-preservation -- a PRE-
EMPTIVE STRIKE against a named Enemy whose existence threatens Man's
civilization.

But, IF they can succeed, they will have killed off the ape who was
destined to murder Cornelius' own grandson, Cornelius. Cornelius --
by naming Aldo to Hasslein -- endangered the lives of every ape who
might be named "Aldo" in the near future. In order to save the life
of his son's Heir. According to the scroll, with the death of
Caesar's Heir, the Dynasty of Caesar was cut short.

But if Aldo can be killed by Hasslein's goons BEFORE he gets a chance
to kill Caesar's son, then Cornelius (Senior) just MIGHT be able to
CHANGE THE FUTURE... and permit the possibility of a long Dynasty of
Caesar.

It's worth a shot!

Cornelius rolls the dice, and knows he'll die before he can ever see
if the dice roll is a winning one. Like Virgil's later explanations
of the nature of Time, it is a BLIND CHOICE, this attempt to change
lanes. It is an attempt to manipulate the future.

To paraphrase the prologue of David Gerrold's novelization of "BATTLE
FOR THE PLANET OF THE APES", thus does History (the film-depicted
adventures of Caesar) become Legend, and Legend become Myth (i.e.
the "Secret Scroll" scripture that the nice Lawgiver reads to his
young audience in 2670).

Patrick Michael Tilton
EARTH-TIME 1-06-2006
<.html
Group: potadg Message: 34796 From: Neil T Foster Date: 1/6/2006
Subject: Within the Planet of the Apes strip #65
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Attachments :
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    Group: potadg Message: 34797 From: patrickmichaeltilton Date: 1/6/2006
    Subject: Re: "Disrespect" THIS!
    .html
    --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Haristas@a... wrote:
    >> Rights are privileges or protections that are granted. Just as
    people enjoy certain rights so do other things, though it all relates
    back to man. We grant animals certain rights, not to be abused or
    killed without warrant, and we also grant rights to things, property
    for instance, and art. Is not art more often than not protected by
    copyrights?
    >
    > Patrick simply doesn't believe PLANET should be granted certain
    rights. I don't think most would agree.
    >
    > -- Rory

    *** Rory, you're confusing the term "RIGHTS" with "VALUE". We attach
    a VALUE to certain things -- to Property (i.e. Land), to Goods, to
    Services, and to works of Art. We do NOT grant RIGHTS to these non-
    human entities!

    As for Animal Rights, well, that's another matter. The Animal Rights
    movement definitely has the moral arguments in its favor -- as animal
    lifeforms, animals have nervous systems capable of experiencing Pain,
    and it is cruel to inflict pain on any living creature.

    We have DOMESTICATED some of the animals in the Animal Kingdom, and
    these PETS are near and dear to us. They are considered a part of our
    family. Inflicting pain on them is considered cruel -- as cruel as
    torturing a fellow human being.

    But the term "Animal Rights" is not a matter of LAW. Society has
    recognized the need to punish cruelty to animals, NOT because animals
    have "rights" but because people who treat animals cruelly have a
    marked tendency to go beyond animal cruelty to acts of physical
    cruelty against other human beings.

    Everyone has heard of the serial killers who practiced slaughtering
    animals before they tried out their killing techniques on human
    victims. Historically, the vicious Wallachian prince Vlad Tepes --
    the historical Dracula -- got off on impaling captured animals when
    he was incarcerated... when he couldn't fulfill his urge to impale
    PEOPLE on stakes, as he'd have preferred!

    I think that animals SHOULD be granted certain rights -- but they
    currently are NOT. Society has criminalized certain acts in respect
    to animals NOT due to the recognition that animals have rights
    (which, legally, they DON'T), but because there is a tendency amongst
    legislators to LEGISLATE MORALITY. It is considered IMMORAL to kill
    animals in a cruel way (note that this excludes "sports" like Hunting
    and Fishing and Sled-dog racing). Punishments for cruelty to animals
    are the result of such legislation of morality -- and in the case of
    animal cruelty, I think it is good and appropriate for such "moral do-
    gooder" legislation to be passed and enforced. I would go so far as
    to suggest that our laws should definitely declare that animals DO
    have certain rights, and that people do NOT have the right to do
    certain things -- such as to drive them, hunt them, to extinction.

    The difference between MY preferred type of legislation and the REAL
    world's legislation is that the real world does NOT consider animals
    to have rights: it is their VALUE as PROPERTY -- as commonly-owned
    property, like any other natural resource -- that prompts lawmakers
    to penalize certain acts of depravity against animals.

    I defy you to cite a law anywhere that states that animals indeed DO
    have legally recognized rights. "Animal rights" is a rhetorical term
    in the Animal Rights movement -- NOT in the written laws of the
    United States of America. Though I'd argue it SHOULD be written in
    the laws.

    Patrick
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 34798 From: Haristas@aol.com Date: 1/6/2006
    Subject: Re: WALMART-POTA
    .html
    .html.html
    Who's been insulted by this, POTA or Blacks?  I've just seen this reported on Fox News. (I figured they'd show it!)  So, if this raises a big enough stink will POTA end up being banned from Wal-Mart?

    Next poll question:  Is POTA racist?

    -- Rory

    PS:

    This is all the damn sequels (i.e. Dehn) fault!  Damn that CONQUEST movie! 
    <.html
    <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 34799 From: Haristas@aol.com Date: 1/6/2006
    Subject: Re: "Disrespect" THIS!
    .html
    .html.html In a message dated 1/6/06 7:17:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:


    *** Rory, you're confusing the term "RIGHTS" with "VALUE".


    I know what I'm talking about, Patrick.  Stop trying to change my mind.  You'll never do it, just as I'll never change yours.  We're locked in an endless loop debate.

    In fact, it's a MASTER-debate!  Get it?  A lot of just spanking the monkey!

    -- Rory
    <.html
    <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 34800 From: Neil Date: 1/6/2006
    Subject: Re: "Disrespect" THIS!
    .html
    --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "patrickmichaeltilton"
    <patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:
    > The difference between MY preferred type of legislation and the REAL
    world's legislation is that the real world does NOT consider animals
    to have rights:

    -- Interestingly enough the new Revolution on the POTA comic touches
    upon this very subject in Ty's great back up story.

    Neil
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 34801 From: Neil Date: 1/6/2006
    Subject: Re: WALMART-POTA
    .html
    --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Haristas@a... wrote:
    > Next poll question: Is POTA racist?
    > This is all the damn sequels (i.e. Dehn) fault! Damn that CONQUEST
    movie!

    -- The sequels' fault?! I thought it was an established fact that
    Planet was about race? (Well according to certain academics anyway);-)

    Neil
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 34802 From: Haristas@aol.com Date: 1/6/2006
    Subject: Re: WALMART-POTA
    .html
    .html.html In a message dated 1/6/06 7:55:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, nfoster@... writes:


    -- The sequels' fault?! I thought it was an established fact that
    Planet was about race? (Well according to certain academics anyway);-)

    Neil


    I've always thought PLANET was about mankind in general, American politics in particular, and, I guess, since this great nation of "All men are created equal" once keep part of its population in slavery, then yeah I guess race is a part of it -- but a small part.

    Race has a greater role in the book.

    -- Rory
    <.html
    <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 34803 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 1/6/2006
    Subject: Re: WALMART-POTA
    .html
    .html
    In a message dated 1/6/2006 6:29:14 P.M. Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:
    Next poll question:  Is POTA racist?
    No, in fact I think quite the opposite.
    By pointing out the inconsistencies
    such as "The quota system's been
    abolished.  You made it why can't I?"
    and "Some apes, it seems, are more
    equal than others." it is on the side
    do equality, not the other way around.
     
    <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 34804 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 1/6/2006
    Subject: Re: WALMART-POTA
    .html
    .html
    In a message dated 1/6/2006 7:05:00 P.M. Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:
    once keep part of its population in slavery
     
    Ambien or Ebonics?
    Or is that racist.
    Fine in a hastily typed post
    But in a petition to Fox?
    No way!
     
     
    <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 34805 From: Haristas@aol.com Date: 1/7/2006
    Subject: Re: Why 'they' are SEQUELS and NOT Prequels (anyway)
    .html
    .html.html apecalypsenow@... writes:


    My biggest pain in the ---- is only a POINT in the ORIGINAL timeline
    I really can't fix. The nuclear war happened in the 26th Century,
    which seems to me a bit late (under the Mutants perspective - they
    had FEW time to develop). In the original timeline the Apes wrote
    the Scrolls in 2778 A.C., and probably the Secret Ones in 2600s, so
    the war and the take-over happened somewhere in 2500s. I would have
    like to 'move' the war in the end of the 23th Century (after
    the 'pet period' of the apes - it doesn't make sense that SURVIVORS
    should have PETS in the first place so the war HAS to happen after
    the 'pet period') but that's a contradiction with the series, which
    I like as being inserted in the continuity.

    T.C.


    It's very hard to make sense of Dehn.  This is why its better to just take PLANET seriously and not take the sequels too seriously.  PLANET doesn't tell you anything about how it came into being.  This allows you the luxury of trying to suppose this or that, letting your imagination go where it will, but the last three sequels spoil this, whether with Cornelius' story in ESCAPE of what the scrolls said, or the eventual events of CONQUEST and BATTLE.

    This is why PLANET is the superior work of art over any of its sequels.  It's ambiguity is its grace.  Too much of what Dehn tried to explain simply falls on its face.

    Just another reason why I insist the original has a right to be free of its sequels.

    -- Rory 
    <.html
    <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 34806 From: kevin Date: 1/7/2006
    Subject: Re: Why 'they' are SEQUELS and NOT Prequels (anyway)
    .html
    I always felt that Zira and Cornelius changed history when they went
    back to 1973. Originally the Apes should have taken over a few
    centuries later. But the birth of Milo (Ceasar) sped up the whole
    process to the late 20th century. Additionally, the 5th movie
    implies that the humans did not regress, which leads to the
    continuity of the TV series, in which humans are servants who can
    still speak.
    This does not fit together perfectly, but then again neither does
    our history...
    --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
    >
    > apecalypsenow@y... writes:
    >
    >
    > > My biggest pain in the ---- is only a POINT in the ORIGINAL
    timeline
    > > I really can't fix. The nuclear war happened in the 26th
    Century,
    > > which seems to me a bit late (under the Mutants perspective -
    they
    > > had FEW time to develop). In the original timeline the Apes
    wrote
    > > the Scrolls in 2778 A.C., and probably the Secret Ones in 2600s,
    so
    > > the war and the take-over happened somewhere in 2500s. I would
    have
    > > like to 'move' the war in the end of the 23th Century (after
    > > the 'pet period' of the apes - it doesn't make sense that
    SURVIVORS
    > > should have PETS in the first place so the war HAS to happen
    after
    > > the 'pet period') but that's a contradiction with the series,
    which
    > > I like as being inserted in the continuity.
    > >
    > > T.C.
    > >
    >
    > It's very hard to make sense of Dehn. This is why its better to
    just take
    > PLANET seriously and not take the sequels too seriously. PLANET
    doesn't tell
    > you anything about how it came into being. This allows you the
    luxury of trying
    > to suppose this or that, letting your imagination go where it
    will, but the
    > last three sequels spoil this, whether with Cornelius' story in
    ESCAPE of what
    > the scrolls said, or the eventual events of CONQUEST and BATTLE.
    >
    > This is why PLANET is the superior work of art over any of its
    sequels. It's
    > ambiguity is its grace. Too much of what Dehn tried to explain
    simply falls
    > on its face.
    >
    > Just another reason why I insist the original has a right to be
    free of its
    > sequels.
    >
    > -- Rory
    >
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 34807 From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com Date: 1/7/2006
    Subject: New file uploaded to PotaDG
    .html
    Hello,

    This email message is a notification to let you know that
    a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the PotaDG
    group.

    File : /Within the Planet of the Apes/WPOTA 66.gif
    Uploaded by : munkeyman63au <nfoster@...>
    Description :

    You can access this file at the URL:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/files/Within%20the%20Planet%20of%20the%20Apes/WPOTA%2066.gif

    To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
    http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

    Regards,

    munkeyman63au <nfoster@...>
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 34808 From: Neil T Foster Date: 1/7/2006
    Subject: Within the Planet of the Apes strip #66
    .html
    Attachments :
      .html Message
      <.html
      <.html
      Group: potadg Message: 34809 From: Neil Date: 1/7/2006
      Subject: Re: Why 'they' are SEQUELS and NOT Prequels (anyway)
      .html
      --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Haristas@a... wrote:
      > apecalypsenow@y... writes:

      -- Can we please not import posts from other groups to this one
      thanks.
      One of James' POTA Group rules clearly states:

      "Please do not cut & paste other people's posts from this group into
      other forums or groups. Nor is posting of cut & pasted posts,
      written by someone else, allowed here. This is disrespectful of the
      person who originally wrote said post since it is their choice to
      decide where they want to post it"

      So to respect his wishes and the rights of the person who originally
      wrote the post could you please refrain from doing so in the future.
      Thank You.

      Neil
      <.html
      Group: potadg Message: 34810 From: Neil Date: 1/7/2006
      Subject: Re: A Question
      .html
      --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Haristas@a... wrote:
      > and only those so devoted to the entire series (the so-called APES
      Saga) that they just can't separate the movies themselves would argue
      that PLANET doesn't have the right to be appreciated as a singular
      motion picture.

      -- Not true at all and very presumptuous

      > If the original film has a "right" to stand alone -- and you're
      going to allow it to -- then the timeline of the APES series has to
      number two.

      -- Sorry but this is where you completely lose me. You brought
      the "APES series" and timeline(s)into it! There is no way you can
      start going on about more than one timeline if Planet is to be
      regarded as a stand alone movie. Any 'timeline' theory is completely
      irrelevant.

      Neil
      <.html
      Group: potadg Message: 34811 From: Neil Date: 1/7/2006
      Subject: A sequence of related events arranged in chronological order...
      .html
      Speaking of timelines I think Lister from Red Dwarf explains it best:

      "... They killed us, and destroyed everything on board ship including
      the time drive which meant that there was no time drive for them to
      have in the future to bring back into the past to destroy the future
      of their past selves in the present! Put simply, they killed
      themselves by killing us because once we were dead, it was impossible
      for us to become them in the future and return in time to kill
      ourselves in the past even though it was the present!"

      Neil ;-)
      <.html
      Group: potadg Message: 34812 From: Haristas@aol.com Date: 1/7/2006
      Subject: Re: A Question
      .html
      .html.html In a message dated 1/7/06 6:36:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, nfoster@... writes:


      -- Sorry but this is where you completely lose me. You brought
      the "APES series" and timeline(s)into it! There is no way you can
      start going on about more than one timeline if Planet is to be
      regarded as a stand alone movie. Any 'timeline' theory is completely
      irrelevant.

      Neil


      Let's talk the series then.

      I have a question for everyone. 

      What if in ESCAPE Dr. Hasslein had shot the right chimp?  What if there was no Caesar, even after Zira and Cornelius had gone back to 1973, told Hasslein of the future, and then had been killed?  How long would it then be before the ape revolt without Caesar?

      -- Rory
      <.html
      <.html
      <.html
      Group: potadg Message: 34813 From: John Date: 1/7/2006
      Subject: Re: Why 'they' are SEQUELS and NOT Prequels (anyway)
      .html
      I got ya post, right here!


      --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Neil" <nfoster@h...> wrote:
      >
      > --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
      > > apecalypsenow@y... writes:
      >
      > -- Can we please not import posts from other groups to this one
      > thanks.
      > One of James' POTA Group rules clearly states:
      >
      > "Please do not cut & paste other people's posts from this group
      into
      > other forums or groups. Nor is posting of cut & pasted posts,
      > written by someone else, allowed here. This is disrespectful of the
      > person who originally wrote said post since it is their choice to
      > decide where they want to post it"
      >
      > So to respect his wishes and the rights of the person who
      originally
      > wrote the post could you please refrain from doing so in the
      future.
      > Thank You.
      >
      > Neil
      >
      <.html
      Group: potadg Message: 34814 From: mike_oz2005 Date: 1/7/2006
      Subject: Hello from Sydney
      .html
      Hi all from Sydney where I attended "an intimate evening with John
      Cleese" last night.

      John IS a fan of the Planet of the Apes movies and he told me "I don't
      see a good future for ANY movie. Anything good coming out of Hollywood
      now is due FAR more to good luck than good management." He went on to
      explain how the MARKETING people run Hollywood and none of them have
      any idea what a good movie is!

      Michael
      <.html
      Group: potadg Message: 34815 From: mike_oz2005 Date: 1/7/2006
      Subject: Re: A Question
      .html
      It would never have taken place - the APPEARANCE of Zira and
      Cornelius would have been enough to scare the shit out of any humans
      and negate the possibility of humans ever taking apes as pets.

      Oh - and apes cannot talk either - scientific impossibility! ;)

      Michael

      --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
      >
      > In a message dated 1/7/06 6:36:32 PM Eastern Standard Time,
      > nfoster@h... writes:
      >
      >
      > > -- Sorry but this is where you completely lose me. You brought
      > > the "APES series" and timeline(s)into it! There is no way you
      can
      > > start going on about more than one timeline if Planet is to be
      > > regarded as a stand alone movie. Any 'timeline' theory is
      completely
      > > irrelevant.
      > >
      > > Neil
      > >
      >
      > Let's talk the series then.
      >
      > I have a question for everyone.
      >
      > What if in ESCAPE Dr. Hasslein had shot the right chimp? What if
      there was
      > no Caesar, even after Zira and Cornelius had gone back to 1973,
      told Hasslein
      > of the future, and then had been killed? How long would it then
      be before the
      > ape revolt without Caesar?
      >
      > -- Rory
      >
      <.html
      Group: potadg Message: 34816 From: mike_oz2005 Date: 1/7/2006
      Subject: Re: Within the Planet of the Apes strip #64
      .html
      Thanks Chris!

      Hey - you got a copy of REVOLUTION yet?

      Michael


      --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Chris Hight <snickertown@y...> wrote:
      >
      > Incredible! The artwork and story are amazing.
      <.html
      Group: potadg Message: 34817 From: mike_oz2005 Date: 1/7/2006
      Subject: Re: A question
      .html
      Not only that, but when the first extensions were built, the house
      was designed to NOT be expanded.

      Some clever architects decided to dig BENEATH the foundations (which
      continued and now the house wobbles a bit!).

      Michael


      --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Neil" <nfoster@h...> wrote:
      >
      > --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
      > > I think it's the only way to look at it.
      > > The "Main House" was built first to
      > > stand alone, with no thought of future
      > > additions.
      > >
      > > If you step back, and look at the new
      > > house you may not even notice the
      > > additional rooms are "add ons". It
      > > appears as one big mansion. But
      > > on closer inspection you can see
      > > by the writing that each one was
      > > an afterthought. When looked at
      > > closely, the seams show.
      > >
      > >
      > > But the Main House was originally
      > > built complete, in and of itself, with
      > > no thought to any further expansion.
      >
      > -- That is very, very good T!
      >
      > Neil
      >
      <.html
      Group: potadg Message: 34818 From: mike_oz2005 Date: 1/7/2006
      Subject: TV Show Comic GOING HOME
      .html
      Well, Boulle's sequel DID and it also included something Neil and I
      believe is instilled in human nature - the organisation of remaining
      humans and resources to fight the oppressive apes (this is somethin
      we will be exploring in GOING HOME).

      Speaking of such - Neil.....do you thing after WITHING we could re-
      show the first 10 pages of GOING HOME then maybe share the following
      12?

      We are getting our fix of POTA from MR COMICS now, but I hear all
      you TV SHOW FANS screaming "wrap up the TV Show, make it more adult
      and give us something new to be proud of!".

      Michael

      --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, taebokitti@a... wrote:
      >
      > In a message dated 1/4/2006 5:13:13 PM Pacific Standard Time,
      > Michael.Whitty@d... writes:
      > Maybe I'm wrong then Rory (and I really will never know because I
      did not see
      > Planet first, upon release), but it really does seem there were a
      lot of gaps
      > that were left in order to be filled in.
      >
      > I think Heston really screwed it by demanding the end of the world
      at the
      > movie's conclusion because it WOULD have been nice to stay in
      the "Planet"
      > environment, if you ask me.
      >
      > Michael
      > I wish the sequels had stayed in the "planet" environment. It is
      such a
      > unique environment and there are many stories to tell. The sequels
      kind of made it
      > more "planet of the humans" instead of apes. Elaine
      >
      <.html
      Group: potadg Message: 34819 From: mike_oz2005 Date: 1/7/2006
      Subject: Re: TV Gorillas question
      .html
      As in PLANET, befor "discovering" there is an APE ARMY became necessary
      to the plot?

      Michael

      --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
      >
      > In a message dated 1/5/06 7:45:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,
      > nfoster@h... writes:
      >
      >
      > > In the TV show were the gorillas a Police force?
      >
      > It seemed that way to me.
      >
      > -- Rory
      >
      <.html
      Group: potadg Message: 34820 From: mike_oz2005 Date: 1/7/2006
      Subject: Revolution Comic ALL OVER AUSTRALIA!!!!
      .html
      I think this is directly a cause of the failure of BURTON'S POTA.

      When I spoke to DARK HORSE about a license for POTA comics they were
      VERY angry about the ENORMOUS investment they LOST.

      They really did their asses on POTA.

      HOWEVER - ALL the 5 comic stores I visited in SYDNEY have stocks and
      ALL have sold WELL! AND I had to really look for them - no posters
      or other adverts.

      COME ON YOU LOT - LET'S GET THE WORDS SOLD OUT ASSOCIATED WITH
      PLANET OF THE APES AGAIN!!!!

      Michael


      --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, taebokitti@a... wrote:
      >
      > In a message dated 1/4/2006 7:22:42 PM Pacific Standard Time,
      > mgkettler@m... writes:
      > I went into my local comic store yesterday to ask if they had
      copies of the
      > new comic. The guy looked at me like he had no idea what I was
      talking about.
      > He looked in his computer and said they didn't have it. Oh
      well.... I was
      > really surprised. It is the only comic store I know about in my
      area.
      >
      > Melinda
      >
      >
      >
      > None of the stores near me have the comic either and when they
      look it up,
      > it is not in the computer. They also will not order it for me. I
      ordered the
      > comic online but it hasn't arrived yet. Elaine
      >
      <.html
      Group: potadg Message: 34821 From: mike_oz2005 Date: 1/7/2006
      Subject: Re: TV Gorillas question
      .html
      So there is evidence that there are bothe SECURITY OFFICERS and
      SOLDIERS in the TV SHOW?

      Michael


      --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, mlccougar@a... wrote:
      >
      > In a message dated 1/5/2006 6:45:24 PM Central Standard Time,
      > nfoster@h... writes:
      >
      > > In the TV show were the gorillas a Police force? Is it even
      mentioned
      > > at all what they are? I'm pretty sure that they were not
      referred to
      > > as an Army.
      >
      > Yes, in the TV series the gorillas were a police force... And, to
      set it
      > right, Urko was NOT a general... He was Chief of Security...
      >
      > There is only one place that may make it seem as though the
      gorillas were
      > military, and that is in the episode "The Legacy" when Galen see's
      a squad
      > heading in their direction, he whispers "Soldiers"...
      >
      <.html
      Group: potadg Message: 34822 From: taebokitti@aol.com Date: 1/7/2006
      Subject: Re: Revolution Comic ALL OVER AUSTRALIA!!!!
      .html
      .html
      In a message dated 1/7/2006 5:40:27 PM Pacific Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:
      I think this is directly a cause of the failure of BURTON'S POTA.

      When I spoke to DARK HORSE about a license for POTA comics they were
      VERY angry about the ENORMOUS investment they LOST.

      They really did their asses on POTA.

      HOWEVER - ALL the 5 comic stores I visited in SYDNEY have stocks and
      ALL have sold WELL!  AND I had to really look for them - no posters
      or other adverts.

      COME ON YOU LOT - LET'S GET THE WORDS SOLD OUT ASSOCIATED WITH
      PLANET OF THE APES AGAIN!!!!

      Michael


      - I have emailed Mile High comics about my order and have not heard from them. I may to buy one of yours, Michael. Elaine






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      <.html
      <.html
      Group: potadg Message: 34823 From: Michael Whitty Date: 1/8/2006
      Subject: TEST
      .html
      .html

      I’ve been “bouncing”!


      -- <.html
      <.html
      Group: potadg Message: 34824 From: mike_oz2005 Date: 1/8/2006
      Subject: Re: TEST
      .html
      I'm still having YAHOO problems - I am not receiving any of the
      group's emails.

      Michael

      --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
      >
      > I've been "bouncing"!
      >
      >
      <.html
      Group: potadg Message: 34825 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 1/8/2006
      Subject: Re: A Question
      .html
      .html
      In a message dated 1/7/2006 6:46:43 P.M. Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:
      How long would it then be before the ape revolt without Caesar?
       
      I think it would have reverted to Timeline One.
      But I have nothing to back that up.  Don't you hate that?
      Seriously though.  Even though you have primitive ape
      suddenly turning into evolved ones by just putting on the
      jumpsuits, I think they's have to have some sort of genetic
      enhancements.  Whether they're splicing DNA from the
      Ape-0-nauts or selective breeding.  Obviously Mandimus
      was born before the revolt, and he speaks just fine,
      without any blood relation to Caesar.  Therefor, without
      a hundreds of years of selective breeding My money's
      on DNA enhancement from the Ape-O-nauts.  I don't
      like the idea of Lisa saying No just because she
      finally had something to say.  It's bad enough
      that Nova does it without practice.  But at least
      she has the genetic history for it.
       
       
       
      <.html
      <.html
      Group: potadg Message: 34826 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 1/8/2006
      Subject: Re: Hello from Sydney
      .html
      .html
      In a message dated 1/7/2006 7:19:02 P.M. Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:
      He went on to explain how the MARKETING people run Hollywood and none of them have any idea what a good movie is!
       
      Too true.  Their like politicians entrenched in government.
      Only with no way to vote them out.  You CAN vote by not
      seeing movies, but then you just get under paid marketing
      people, who are even less qualified to run Hollywood.
       
      <.html
      <.html
      Group: potadg Message: 34827 From: Michael Whitty Date: 1/8/2006
      Subject: Hello from Sydney
      .html
      .html

      He said that if it were not for George Harrison, LIFE OF BRIAN would have never been made.

       

      AND….it cost a pissling $2 million to make.

       

      Anyway – my theory is that eventually, if these movies keep failing, the marketing guys will be shown the door (but maybe not in our lifetime!).

       

      Michael

       

      -----Original Message-----
      From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of LordTZer0@...
      Sent: Sunday, 8 January 2006 11:11 PM
      To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Hello from Sydney

       

      In a message dated 1/7/2006 7:19:02 P.M. Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

      He went on to explain how the MARKETING people run Hollywood and none of them have any idea what a good movie is!

       

      Too true.  Their like politicians entrenched in government.

      Only with no way to vote them out.  You CAN vote by not

      seeing movies, but then you just get under paid marketing

      people , who are even less qualified to run Hollywood .


      -- <.html
      <.html
      Group: potadg Message: 34828 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 1/8/2006
      Subject: Re: Hello from Sydney
      .html
      .html
      In a message dated 1/8/2006 7:03:07 A.M. Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

      He said that if it were not for George Harrison, LIFE OF BRIAN would have never been made.

      AND….it cost a pissling $2 million to make.

      Anyway – my theory is that eventually, if these movies keep failing, the marketing guys will be shown the door (but maybe not in our lifetime!).

       
      Good for George!
      It's my feeling that it doesn't take a fortune to make a decent film.
      Just some good stock, a camera & a cast and crew dedicated to
      making the project.  There's lots of stuff you can do to go back
      and fix.  But you have to have something to start with.
       
       
      <.html
      <.html
      Group: potadg Message: 34829 From: patrickmichaeltilton Date: 1/8/2006
      Subject: Re: Dehn... a "disrespecter"?
      .html
      --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Haristas@a... wrote:
      >
      >
      > *** Point [a] first: I do contend that the APES series -- the 5-film
      > series -- is a closed timeline loop, based on the evidence presented
      > on-screen in those sequels AND the evidence that Paul Dehn -- who
      > WROTE 'em -- indeed intended it to be as such. He stated this
      > plainly -- even so far as to assert that the so-called "ambiguous"
      > ending shot of "BATTLE" (the weeping Caesar statue) represented the
      > INABILITY of Caesar to change the Future; this, from page 211
      > of "PLANET OF THE APES REVISITED":
      >
      >
      > But Patrick you don't understand... I consider Paul Dehn
      a "disrespector" of the original POTA too! I'm not too fond of the guy.
      >
      > -- Rory

      *** You think that Paul Dehn "disrespected" POTA, just because he was
      willing to write the screenplay for "BENEATH" (and, later, the rest)?

      Do you think HE considered what he was doing to be "disrespectful" of
      the original film? Do you think his motives were dishonest?

      I can understand you not liking what he added to POTA-dom -- that's a
      matter of taste and judgment, and no two persons will ever agree on
      everything. But are you inferring that Dehn INTENDED to do POTA wrong,
      somehow? That he lacked "respect" for the 1st film?

      When I look at Burton's POTA2K, I readily admit that I'm not too fond
      of what ended up onscreen. I think it was a horrid script. And I'm not
      happy that that crappy script was filmed, and thus ruined POTA for many
      a year to come, in regards to reviving the property for Fox.

      But I think that the screenwriter(s) involved in that bad movie
      genuinely thought they were writing a good script. They're like Mark
      Wahlberg as Dirk Diggler in "BOOGIE NIGHTS", when he and his fellow
      cocksman try to get into the music business. They have horrible singing
      voices, and everybody knows it... everybody but THEM. They themselves
      have an inflated opinion of their own 'talents', not seeing -- or
      hearing -- that they have NO talent for music whatsoever. The same goes
      for the screenwriters for Burton's film. They THOUGHT they were turning
      in good work... but they were clueless. They couldn't smell the stink
      of their own crap.

      I find it hard to believe that you think Dehn -- whose work you
      dislike -- had dishonest motives. That he intended "disrespect" to the
      original film. I think he did his damnedest to write the best sequel
      script he possibly could, taking into account the unfortunate necessity
      to make Taylor "disappear" in the beginning and then reappear towards
      the end. I think he would've been able to write a better script if
      Heston had considered the possibility that FULL participation on his
      own part MIGHT result in a decent sequel, and thus agreed to
      participate FULLY in a sequel if the script passed his muster. He
      didn't demand script approval, and I think he had the power to do so,
      but didn't think to exercise it. They knew they couldn't make any
      sequel without him in it, yet they couldn't FORCE him to do it. They
      BEGGED him to participate in it, and when he -- out of gratitude for
      them green-lighting the 1st film -- decided to do them a favor and be
      in it, on the condition that he have MINIMAL involvement in it, they
      had to come up with a story that worked around the huge obstacles he
      forced them to deal with. It's Heston's fault that they had to
      introduce the Brent character. It might've made a far more interesting
      story if there had been no detour to Ape City... if Taylor and Nova
      were to encounter the Mutant city all on their own -- with the
      Zira/Zaius/Ursus impending Invasion story running parallel -- so that
      the two storylines merge. If Taylor had had more screentime,
      encountering the Mutant society and with us becoming aware of that
      satirical portrayal of the "nuclear family" (so to speak) through
      Taylor's experiences -- and not through the experiences of Brent --
      then Heston's experiences might have been better.

      But Heston had the preconceived notion that no sequel would ever be
      worthwhile. His opinion was prejudiced and, I think, unwarranted. He
      agreed to the MINIMAL involvement before he had any clue what the
      sequel's plot would be about. He based his judgment on any possible
      sequel on... NOTHING. He was predisposed to dismiss it. It's telling
      that he never bothered to see any of the other sequels. His own lesser
      involvement in "BENEATH" made it a "lesser" film than the 1st one -- a
      self-fulfilling prophecy if there ever was one -- and, even though he
      thought it turned out better than he'd thought it would, he undoubtedly
      considered it a "lesser" film than the original (and few would disagree
      with his assessment).

      Dehn had severe limitations with his "BENEATH" story and script -- all
      due to Heston's prejudiced predisposition to wave off any 'sequel'
      attempt as an "Andy Hardy"-type sort of thing. When he was free to tell
      a story unencumbered by that HUGE limitation -- since Taylor wasn't
      gonna be in the 3rd movie -- he was able to write a screenplay that all
      the participants seem to have raved over. Kim and Roddy are on record
      saying that "ESCAPE" was a wonderful script, telling a terrific story.
      Or, were they full of it for deeming Dehn's script for "ESCAPE" to be
      good? Did THEY deem it to be "disrespectful" of the 1st film?

      I don't think you'll find anybody who was involved with the productions
      of the sequels -- which includes virtually everybody who was involved
      in some fashion or other with the making of the original film -- who
      thought they were being "disrespectful" of "PLANET".

      The only reason there's so much yakkin' goin' on in Yahooland over
      the "PLANET OF THE APES" phenomenon is because the STORIES were so
      damned good. Not faultless, mind you. Not perfect. Not even "PLANET" is
      perfect, magnificent though it is. You're free to dislike 'em, to
      disregard 'em, to slag 'em here -- that's your right. But I think it's
      foolish of you to go so far as to suggest that Dehn intended to 'harm'
      the original film in some way, just by writing scripts for its sequels.
      He did the best he could, and there are those of us who are damned glad
      he made the effort. A hack writer would've churned out dreck that
      wouldn't have made it to a third film, let alone a 4th or 5th.

      Patrick
      <.html
      Group: potadg Message: 34830 From: Haristas@aol.com Date: 1/8/2006
      Subject: Re: Timelines
      .html
      .html.html There's something it seems to me most here don't understand about my belief that there are two timelines -- that it wouldn't all end with the events of BENEATH.  Actually, maybe an altered timeline wouldn't make any difference.

      I believe there are two timelines because I don't believe you can go back in time (if you could, that is!) to become your own grandfather.  There has to be an "original" timeline that brings you into being in the first place.

      I think that the apes going back to 1973 creates an alternate timeline because they weren't there during the first line of events, and so therefore they're something new in the timeline and things from that point won't happen exactly the same.  That doesn't mean that some things, in fact most things, won't happen exactly as they happened in the original timeline, just the things that Cornelius and Zira, and then Caesar, influence.  Of course they're going to influence the actions of a great many people, who in turn will influence the actions of a great many more, all of whom wouldn't do these same things if the apes had not returned to the past.

      As to whether or not it all leads up to the events of PLANET and BENEATH again, or in fact the future can be changed, that the changing of a few avenues into the future will be enough to divert the destruction of the world, well I guess for the fans of APES that all comes down to how much you like the conclusion of BENEATH.

      I hate the ending of BENEATH and wish I could undo it.  I think the film series leaves the possibility open that it can be avoided.  Caesar's statue weeps at the end of BATTLE, but then the Lawgiver doesn't seem to be the man-hater is read of in PLANET and BENEATH.  So hence there's two possibilities for the future, TWO timelines!

      -- Rory
      <.html
      <.html
      <.html
      Group: potadg Message: 34831 From: Haristas@aol.com Date: 1/8/2006
      Subject: Re: Dehn... a "disrespecter"?
      .html
      .html.html In a message dated 1/8/06 12:22:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:


      But I think it's
      foolish of you to go so far as to suggest that Dehn intended to 'harm'
      the original film in some way, just by writing scripts for its sequels.


      Oh, Patrick!  Your love of POTA so blinds you!

      PLANET has been harmed by the sequels.  PLANET is called "camp" in some circles, and that's not because of PLANET but because of the sillier aspects of the "sloppy sequels."

      When Caesar yells "Now fight like apes!" in BATTLE, and Roddy McDowall's ape jaw is nearly falling off, we've moved light years away from PLANET.  The jaw thing may be Dehn's fault, but the script certainly was, and CONQUEST is certainly Dehn's fault.  Do you think PLANET would be called racist if Dehn had been so blatant about the analogy between blacks and the apes in CONQUEST?

      I don't blame Dehn entirely for what's lacking in the sequels, he had a lot of help, but I do blame him quite a bit -- mostly for his sloppiness, all the inconsistencies.

      -- Rory
      <.html
      <.html
      <.html
      Group: potadg Message: 34832 From: patrickmichaeltilton Date: 1/8/2006
      Subject: Re: A Question - A good question
      .html
      --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Haristas@a... wrote:
      > I have a question for everyone.
      >
      > What if in ESCAPE Dr. Hasslein had shot the right chimp? What if
      there was no Caesar, even after Zira and Cornelius had gone back to
      1973, told Hasslein of the future, and then had been killed? How
      long would it then be before the ape revolt without Caesar?
      >
      > -- Rory

      *** The Plague would've happened anyway.

      Man would've replaced his lost Dogs & Cats with other animals,
      including Apes.

      And the existence of talking apes would've arisen eventually -- since
      the arrival of the Ape-onauts had NOTHING to do with the emergence of
      simian speaking ability in the apes who appear in "CONQUEST" (and who
      later are seen in "BATTLE").

      In the POTA world, there were "primitive" apes AND there
      were "evolved apes" co-existing with them. Many of the apes shipped
      to Breck's city from overseas were primitive ones -- like the
      orangutans from Borneo amongst whom Caesar hid initially. But other
      apes were the "evolved" types -- including Lisa, who SPEAKS at the
      very end of the film, and Mandemus -- who had to have been born years
      before Caesar was born. By the time "BATTLE" happens, Lisa is
      perfectly fluent in English. If she -- and the other apes
      in "CONQUEST" -- were quiet before then (or, if they only
      made 'animal'-like screeches), it was because they were not fluent in
      English (having been born and raised in places like Borneo and
      Central Africa) and/or they were afraid -- because they were
      forewarned -- that they would be mistreated if they were to be caught
      SPEAKING by Humans.

      The first experience Caesar has INSIDE Breck's city, when he and
      Armando emerge from that elevator from the helipad rooftop to the
      Mall area, is the voice of the WATCH COMMANDER's voice booming from
      one of the loudspeakers, informing the City's Security forces that
      there is "an unauthorized ape gathering at the foot of ramp six".

      In "BATTLE", MacDonald tells Caesar and Virgil that those CAMERAS
      plastered all over the City were put there "to forestall ape
      conspiracies".

      In other words, Breck feared that apes would CONSPIRE against him.
      They can only do that if they can COMMUNICATE with each other.
      Perhaps by a kind of SIGN LANGUAGE, or with little grunts and
      whispers.

      I also think it's possible that Breck suspects that it is possible
      that Talking Apes might exist then, regardless of whether or not the
      child of Zira lived. If Breck knows that there's a discrepancy
      between Cornelius' two statements regarding Ape use of the English
      language -- just as there is a discrepancy regarding the duration of
      Apes as Man's pets (i.e. they were enslaved only a few years after
      their Pet status began, rather than after "two centuries") -- then he
      might suspect that Ape language ability is there in some of these
      apes that are being shipped into his city.

      I've already suggested that the chimpanzee "messenger" that Breck
      owned -- named "Aldo" -- was in his possession for the very reason
      that Breck knew that the name "Aldo" would be one to look out for,
      because Cornelius had proudly spoken of an ape named "Aldo" who would
      supposedly become the First Ape to speak -- to Refuse -- to say "No!"
      to a human.

      Breck would have reason to doubt the 500-year timeline that Cornelius
      and Zira suggested to Hasslein, based on the Apes-as-Pets timeframe
      already having been cut far short of their 200 year remark.

      Breck feared an ape "conspiracy" to overthrow him. "To forestall ape
      conspiracies", MacDonald says. That implies the possibility of vocal
      communication. Breck may have suspected that some (most? all?) of the
      ape slaves COULD speak... but DIDN'T. Out of fear. Out of patience,
      perhaps. Biding their time... waiting for the right moment to begin
      attempting to turn the tables...

      The Ape Revolt -- whether Caesar had been there or not -- would've
      happened anyway. Not centuries later. Probably not years later,
      either. The apes were on a slow burn... but they were about to
      explode. Caesar doesn't TELL them to accelerate their acts of
      disobedience, after all. The montage in "CONQUEST" depicts apes
      performing their ever-increasing acts of disobedience at merely the
      PRESENCE of Caesar... watching them... telling them NON-VOCALLY to
      steal that steak knife, to toss that book away, to paint that man's
      sock with shoe-polish. He doesn't SPEAK to them and order these
      things... he doesn't WHISPER to them, "Psst! Hey, you! How's about
      hikin' a steak knife or two?" They 'get the message' all from a LOOK.

      And, as "BATTLE" makes clear, a great many of those slave apes had
      the vocal ability to speak, since they wind up chanting "Ape has
      killed Ape" en masse. They merely HID their ability. It was the
      sudden blurting out of "LOUSY HUMAN BASTARDS!" by Caesar -- in fluent
      English -- that got the attention of the authorities. The Security
      dudes and a number of bystanders believed the words came from
      Armando's chimpanzee, rather than from him. THAT moment got Breck's
      attention. He's been fretting about the "rising tide" of outright
      defiance of the servant apes. Apes who are "burning with resentment".

      Ape who might be "conspiring" against him... speaking to each other,
      perhaps in whispers, when they think they aren't being watched by
      truncheon-wielding Stormtroopers, prompting the installation of those
      cameras. And the job of "Watch Commander" is to watch those apes who
      occasionally gather together, like those gorillas Caesar sees soon
      after he and Armando get off that elevator, at the foot of ramp six.

      What might those gorillas have been whispering about, before their
      meeting was broken up by the Security men? In a word: Revolution!

      Patrick Michael Tilton
      EARTH-TIME 1-08-2006

      P.S. Remember how Cornelius warns Brent that if he is captured by the
      gorillas, he should not speak, because of what they'll do to him if
      he does? Who might have forewarned the talking POTA apes -- prior to
      their enslavement and shipping overseas to America -- that they must
      never speak when they are in the presence of the humans who capture
      them?

      We never do learn about the later lives of Lewis Dixon and Stephanie
      Branton. What if they became interested in studying Apes in the wild,
      rather than at the Los Angeles Zoo, after the Plague wiped out the
      Dogs and Cats? When Apes begin to be sold as Pets, perhaps they
      became concerned that Apes would be deprived of their natural
      habitats, and went to Africa and Indonesia in order to seek out Apes
      in the wild, to protect them (if they could) from poachers and
      hunters and those who would capture them to sell to Pet-supply
      companies...

      ... and, to their amazement, they discover 'tribes' of Apes who are
      just like Zira and Cornelius. Able to TALK. Perhaps Dixon and Branton
      are the ones who discover this -- and keep it secret from the rest of
      the world. They, perhaps, are able to teach a few of these "evolved"
      apes the English language (Mandemus, anyone?)... so that they can
      WARN them of what the outside world is like. To tell them that their
      ability to Speak will be regarded as a THREAT to Mankind in
      general... that the "tribal leaders" of the Human civilizations of
      the world are not as kind as Dixon and Branton. That they would be
      persecuted for their speaking ability.

      "So... DON'T SPEAK when you're around Humans. Especially if they
      capture you and chain you and put you in a cage. Pretend to be just
      like the 'primitive' apes... the ones who look a lot like you, but
      can't speak either your language or this English language which I'm
      speaking with you..."

      Thus, the few apes that Dixon and Branton (perhaps) teach English to
      (Mandemus in Borneo... a Gorilla in Uganda... a Chimp in Cameroon...)
      will be able to translate the English-language warnings into whatever
      original "ape" language(s) that the Orangutans, Gorillas, and
      Chimpanzees are speaking in their respective "tribes".

      Dixon and Branton were willing to 'betray' their own species by
      helping Zira and Cornelius... Why wouldn't they be willing to help
      those other apes? In my scenario, they DO.
      <.html
      Group: potadg Message: 34833 From: Patrick Tilton Date: 1/8/2006
      Subject: Re: Dehn... a "disrespecter"?
      .html
      Not everyone saw a 'race' motif in "PLANET" back in
      1968, but Sammy Davis Jr. did, and I doubt if he was
      the only one. The 'race question' was always there, as
      far as interpretive possibilities go. That doesn't
      make "PLANET" a racist movie. It makes it a movie that
      -- in part -- is ABOUT racism. And the role-reversal
      is the whole point, which is why the protagonist is a
      WASP, rather than a Black man. If Taylor had gotten
      shot to death during the Hunt and Dodge had only
      gotten the throat wound, would the 'race factor' have
      been MORE obvious and, hence, less shocking to that
      part of the audience of the Caucasian persuasion? Or
      would it have been TOO obvious, and dismissed as a
      too-thinly-veiled allegory on Race?

      "PLANET" was about a whole lot more than Race, though
      Race was a prime element in its thematic content. So,
      too, was Organized Religion. And 'fascist'-style
      Politics. And 'Patriotism'. The whopper issue, though,
      was the NUCLEAR threat. That's what the ending shot
      hammers home, after all. "You BLEW IT UP!"

      Insofar as this Nuke element was the MAIN thematic
      element in "PLANET", it was wholly appropriate for the
      thrust of Dehn's sequel to delve further into the
      Nuke-worshipping culture of our day... by concocting a
      horrifically absurd satire of it, with the
      Bomb-worshipping cult of Mendez XXVI. I still remember
      seeing old Army footage -- propaganda reels from the
      1950's -- where soldiers are told about the "beauty"
      of the mushroom cloud. It wasn't a far cry from that
      to the "Holy weapon of Peace" nonsense that the
      Mutants solemnly pontificate about.

      Patrick


      --- Haristas@... wrote:

      > In a message dated 1/8/06 12:22:34 PM Eastern
      > Standard Time,
      > patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:
      >
      >
      > > But I think it's
      > > foolish of you to go so far as to suggest that
      > Dehn intended to 'harm'
      > > the original film in some way, just by writing
      > scripts for its sequels.
      > >
      >
      > Oh, Patrick! Your love of POTA so blinds you!
      >
      > PLANET has been harmed by the sequels. PLANET is
      > called "camp" in some
      > circles, and that's not because of PLANET but
      > because of the sillier aspects of the
      > "sloppy sequels."
      >
      > When Caesar yells "Now fight like apes!" in BATTLE,
      > and Roddy McDowall's ape
      > jaw is nearly falling off, we've moved light years
      > away from PLANET. The jaw
      > thing may be Dehn's fault, but the script certainly
      > was, and CONQUEST is
      > certainly Dehn's fault. Do you think PLANET would
      > be called racist if Dehn had
      > been so blatant about the analogy between blacks and
      > the apes in CONQUEST?
      >
      > I don't blame Dehn entirely for what's lacking in
      > the sequels, he had a lot
      > of help, but I do blame him quite a bit -- mostly
      > for his sloppiness, all the
      > inconsistencies.
      >
      > -- Rory
      >




      __________________________________________
      <.html
      Group: potadg Message: 34834 From: merlynpota Date: 1/8/2006
      Subject: Re: Timelines
      .html
      Someone somewhere (not sure whom) wrote that traveling back in time
      would be like throwing a pebble into the ocean...there will be a few
      ripples but that one pebble isn't going to change the coming and
      goings of the tides...




      --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
      >
      > There's something it seems to me most here don't understand about
      my belief
      > that there are two timelines -- that it wouldn't all end with the
      events of
      > BENEATH. Actually, maybe an altered timeline wouldn't make any
      difference.
      >
      > I believe there are two timelines because I don't believe you can
      go back in
      > time (if you could, that is!) to become your own grandfather.
      There has to be
      > an "original" timeline that brings you into being in the first
      place.
      >
      > I think that the apes going back to 1973 creates an alternate
      timeline
      > because they weren't there during the first line of events, and so
      therefore they're
      > something new in the timeline and things from that point won't
      happen exactly
      > the same. That doesn't mean that some things, in fact most things,
      won't
      > happen exactly as they happened in the original timeline, just the
      things that
      > Cornelius and Zira, and then Caesar, influence. Of course they're
      going to
      > influence the actions of a great many people, who in turn will
      influence the
      > actions of a great many more, all of whom wouldn't do these same
      things if the apes
      > had not returned to the past.
      >
      > As to whether or not it all leads up to the events of PLANET and
      BENEATH
      > again, or in fact the future can be changed, that the changing of a
      few avenues
      > into the future will be enough to divert the destruction of the
      world, well I
      > guess for the fans of APES that all comes down to how much you like
      the
      > conclusion of BENEATH.
      >
      > I hate the ending of BENEATH and wish I could undo it. I think the
      film
      > series leaves the possibility open that it can be avoided.
      Caesar's statue weeps
      > at the end of BATTLE, but then the Lawgiver doesn't seem to be the
      man-hater
      > is read of in PLANET and BENEATH. So hence there's two
      possibilities for the
      > future, TWO timelines!
      >
      > -- Rory
      >
      <.html
      Group: potadg Message: 34835 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 1/8/2006
      Subject: Re: Timelines
      .html
      .html.html In a message dated 1/8/2006 11:23:26 AM Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

      Caesar's statue weeps at the end of BATTLE, but then the Lawgiver doesn't seem to be the man-hater is read of in PLANET and BENEATH.  So hence there's two possibilities for the future, TWO timelines!


      Exactly...
      <.html
      <.html
      <.html
      Group: potadg Message: 34836 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 1/8/2006
      Subject: Re: A Question - A good question
      .html
      .html.html In a message dated 1/8/2006 12:04:52 PM Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

      In the POTA world, there were "primitive" apes AND there
      were "evolved apes" co-existing with them. Many of the apes shipped
      to Breck's city from overseas were primitive ones -- like the
      orangutans from Borneo amongst whom Caesar hid initially.


      All the apes in there are supposed to be apes, not some are evolved and some aren't...

      Cause if there are two "breeds of them, what happens to the "primitive" orangutans from the time that they're taken out of the cage and brought into Ape Management for processing? They sure lose the "primitive look" rather quickly don't they? How can you unflub that?
      <.html
      <.html
      <.html
      Group: potadg Message: 34837 From: Michael Whitty Date: 1/8/2006
      Subject: Hello from Sydney
      .html
      .html

      Indeed – I just saw BROKEN FLOWERS and (other than paying Bill Murray) you can’t tell me this film cost much.

       

      Brilliant story.

       

      Michael

       

      -----Original Message-----
      From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of LordTZer0@...
      Sent: Monday, 9 January 2006 12:14 AM
      To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Hello from Sydney

       

      In a message dated 1/8/2006 7:03:07 A.M. Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

      He said that if it were not for George Harrison, LIFE OF BRIAN would have never been made.

       

      AND….it cost a pissling $2 million to make.

       

      Anyway – my theory is that eventually, if these movies keep failing, the marketing guys will be shown the door (but maybe not in our lifetime!).

       

      Good for George!

      It's my feeling that it doesn't take a fortune to make a decent film.

      Just some good stock, a camera & a cast and crew dedicated to

      making the project.  There's lots of stuff you can do to go back

      and fix.  But you have to have something to start with.


      -- <.html
      <.html
      Group: potadg Message: 34838 From: Michael Whitty Date: 1/8/2006
      Subject: Timelines
      .html
      .html

      Yes, but Zira and Cornelius landing in 1973, being ALL OVER the news, being celebrities then being hunted down – this is not what I would call a pebble but more a meteorite!  J

      OK – if they were not discovered in Taylor’s ship – if they just blended in and stayed to themselves…..but then again, maybe THAT would have led to MANY siblings and a more subtle “CONQUEST” that humans did NOT see coming!

      Michael

       

      -----Original Message-----
      From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of merlynpota
      Sent: Monday, 9 January 2006 6:05 AM
      To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Timelines

       

      Someone somewhere (not sure whom) wrote that traveling back in time
      would be like throwing a pebble into the ocean...there will be a few
      ripples but that one pebble isn't going to change the coming and
      goings of the tides...




      --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
      >
      > There's something it seems to me most here don't understand about
      my belief
      > that there are two timelines -- that it wouldn't all end with the
      events of
      > BENEATH.  Actually, maybe an altered timeline wouldn't make any
      difference.
      >
      > I believe there are two timelines because I don't believe you can
      go back in
      > time (if you could, that is!) to become your own grandfather. 
      There has to be
      > an "original" timeline that brings you into being in the first
      place.
      >
      > I think that the apes going back to 1973 creates an alternate
      timeline
      > because they weren't there during the first line of events, and so
      therefore they're
      > something new in the timeline and things from that point won't
      happen exactly


      -- <.html
      <.html
      Group: potadg Message: 34839 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 1/8/2006
      Subject: Re: Timelines
      .html
      .html.html In a message dated 1/8/2006 3:15:55 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

      if they just blended in and stayed to themselves…..but then again, maybe THAT would have led to MANY siblings and a more subtle "CONQUEST" that humans did NOT see coming!

      Which would have been a lot cooler to see in many ways...
      <.html
      <.html
      <.html
      Group: potadg Message: 34840 From: ron kenner Date: 1/8/2006
      Subject: Re: WALMART-POTA
      .html
      hi-
      the race question might best be answered by black people, but over the years i have heard a diversity of opinions from black co-workers and friends.
      rob/ron

      Haristas@... wrote:
      In a message dated 1/6/06 7:55:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, nfoster@... writes:


      -- The sequels' fault?! I thought it was an established fact that
      Planet was about race? (Well according to certain academics anyway);-)

      Neil


      I've always thought PLANET was about mankind in general, American politics in particular, and, I guess, since this great nation of "All men are created equal" once keep part of its population in slavery, then yeah I guess race is a part of it -- but a small part.

      Race has a greater role in the book.

      -- Rory



      Learn more about pitbulls at the official Free Pitbulls, Inc. website:
       
       
      go vegetarian!


      Yahoo! Photos
      Ring in the New Year with Photo Calendars . Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.

      <.html
      Group: potadg Message: 34841 From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com Date: 1/8/2006
      Subject: New file uploaded to PotaDG
      .html
      Hello,

      This email message is a notification to let you know that
      a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the PotaDG
      group.

      File : /Within the Planet of the Apes/WPOTA 67.gif
      Uploaded by : munkeyman63au <nfoster@...>
      Description :

      You can access this file at the URL:
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/files/Within%20the%20Planet%20of%20the%20Apes/WPOTA%2067.gif

      To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
      http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

      Regards,

      munkeyman63au <nfoster@...>
      <.html
      Group: potadg Message: 34842 From: Neil T Foster Date: 1/8/2006
      Subject: Within the Planet of the Apes strip #67
      .html
      Attachments :
        .html Message
        <.html
        <.html
        Group: potadg Message: 34843 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 1/8/2006
        Subject: Re: Dehn... a "disrespecter"?
        .html
        .html
        In a message dated 1/8/2006 11:34:19 A.M. Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:
        When Caesar yells "Now fight like apes!" in BATTLE, and Roddy McDowall's ape jaw is nearly falling off, we've moved light years away from PLANET. 
         
        Chambers was on the set of Planet personally,
        just to make sure that the camera angles were
        right so that shots like that one didn't happen.
         
        <.html
        <.html
        Group: potadg Message: 34844 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 1/8/2006
        Subject: Re: Timelines
        .html
        .html
        In a message dated 1/8/2006 1:06:44 P.M. Central Standard Time, merlynpota@... writes:
        there will be a few
        ripples but that one pebble isn't going to change the coming and
        goings of the tides...
         
        More like tidal ways.
        It's the Butterfly Effect.
         
        <.html
        <.html
        Group: potadg Message: 34845 From: Neil Date: 1/8/2006
        Subject: Re: TV Show Comic GOING HOME
        .html
        --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "mike_oz2005" <Michael.Whitty@d...>
        wrote:
        > Speaking of such - Neil.....do you thing after WITHIN we could re-
        show the first 10 pages of GOING HOME then maybe share the following
        12?

        -- Fine by me if there is enough interest but I would suggest that if
        we do, we show them as the pencilled pages as the first 10 inked pages
        have already been seen by most on the group and this would at least be
        something 'new' for everyone.

        Neil
        <.html
        Group: potadg Message: 34846 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 1/8/2006
        Subject: Re: A Question - A good question
        .html
        .html
        In a message dated 1/8/2006 2:49:34 P.M. Central Standard Time, mlccougar@... writes:
        All the apes in there are supposed to be apes, not some are evolved and some aren't...
         
        Maybe, but if they can all talk, why didn't they?
        Nothing to say?  Not much to talk about? 
         
        "Well I woke up and than I ate a banana.  Then
        I threw some feces at my cage mates, and then
        I took a nap before lunch."
         
        That's saying that they all could talk already.
        They were all intelligent already, but basically
        in the same position as the Planet Humans.
        I think that's a bit of a stretch, don't you?
         
         
         
        <.html
        <.html
        Group: potadg Message: 34847 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 1/8/2006
        Subject: Re: Hello from Sydney
        .html
        .html
        In a message dated 1/8/2006 3:01:36 P.M. Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:
        He said that if it were not for George Harrison, LIFE OF BRIAN would have never been made.
         
        I knew he was a producer on it , but I never knew he was the deciding
        force between getting the greenlight and staying in pre-production hell.
         
         
         
        <.html
        <.html
        Group: potadg Message: 34848 From: taebokitti@aol.com Date: 1/8/2006
        Subject: Re: Within the Planet of the Apes strip #66
        .html
        .html I like that robot, Neil. Does he have a name? Elaine<.html
        <.html
        Group: potadg Message: 34849 From: Neil Date: 1/8/2006
        Subject: Re: Within the Planet of the Apes strip #66
        .html
        --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , taebokitti@a... wrote:
        >
        > I like that robot, Neil. Does he have a name? Elaine

        -- T-8006D I believe.

        Why? - I don't know! ;-)

        Neil
        <.html
        Group: potadg Message: 34850 From: Whitty, Michael Date: 1/8/2006
        Subject: Within the Planet of the Apes strip #67
        .html
        Attachments :
          .html Message
          Just by the way - this was originally written to T-8006d as a "talking" computer screen.
           
          But hey, why not a robot?  Nice touch Neil!
           
          Michael
          -----Original Message-----
          From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Neil T Foster
          Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 9:03 AM
          To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [PotaDG] Within the Planet of the Apes strip #67


          <.html

          <.html
          Group: potadg Message: 34851 From: Whitty, Michael Date: 1/8/2006
          Subject: Re: A Question - A good question
          .html
          .html
          The virus that killed cats and dogs also effected apes by making them look more human and have the power of speech.  :)
           
          Michael
          -----Original Message-----
          From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of LordTZer0@...
          Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 9:51 AM
          To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: A Question - A good question

          In a message dated 1/8/2006 2:49:34 P.M. Central Standard Time, mlccougar@... writes:
          All the apes in there are supposed to be apes, not some are evolved and some aren't...
           
          Maybe, but if they can all talk, why didn't they?
          Nothing to say?  Not much to talk about? 
           
          "Well I woke up and than I ate a banana.  Then
          I threw some feces at my cage mates, and then
          I took a nap before lunch."
           
          That's saying that they all could talk already.
          They were all intelligent already, but basically
          in the same position as the Planet Humans.
          I think that's a bit of a stretch, don't you?
          <.html

          <.html
          Group: potadg Message: 34852 From: Whitty, Michael Date: 1/8/2006
          Subject: Re: Within the Planet of the Apes strip #66
          .html
          .html
          K-9!  :)
          -----Original Message-----
          From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Neil
          Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 10:23 AM
          To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Within the Planet of the Apes strip #66

          --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, taebokitti@a... wrote:
          >
          > I like that robot, Neil. Does he have a name? Elaine

          -- T-8006D I believe.

          Why? - I don't know! ;-)

          Neil
          <.html

          <.html
          Group: potadg Message: 34853 From: Whitty, Michael Date: 1/8/2006
          Subject: Re: Hello from Sydney
          .html
          .html
          Yup.
           
          And George teamed up with Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin to finance Holy Grail.
           
          John described "Life of Brian" as the most expensive movie ticket ever (well, for George Harrison at least!).
           
          Michael
          -----Original Message-----
          From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of LordTZer0@...
          Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 9:54 AM
          To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Hello from Sydney

          In a message dated 1/8/2006 3:01:36 P.M. Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:
          He said that if it were not for George Harrison, LIFE OF BRIAN would have never been made.
           
          I knew he was a producer on it , but I never knew he was the deciding
          force between getting the greenlight and staying in pre-production hell.
          <.html

          <.html
          Group: potadg Message: 34854 From: taebokitti@aol.com Date: 1/8/2006
          Subject: Re: Within the Planet of the Apes strip #67
          .html
          .html So his name is ANSA type 2? I want one to clean my house. Elaine<.html
          <.html
          Group: potadg Message: 34855 From: Whitty, Michael Date: 1/8/2006
          Subject: TV Show Comic GOING HOME
          .html
          .html
          Sounds good to me.
           
          Neil and I have actually decided that after this 22 pages, the next 2 parts of this comic will be written and roughed, then placed in limbo.  It is more than obvious now that we would need these to be coloured to find them published, so inking them is essentially a waste of time because to colourist would colour the pencils (Ty, is that correct?).
           
          Given all the debates about timelines, and my conclusion that there is no serious way to reconcile the whole conundrum, the next project Neil and I are writing is "a re-imagining"!
           
          In a way, it will be able to (loosely) fit into the saga as the way we see the original (r)evolution of apes into upright, speaking threats to the future of humanity.
           
          BUT - it will essentially be a fresh start.
           
          AND it will be EXTREMELY respectful to PLANET, and it will be mindful of the sequels and the TV Show.
           
          The way it is planned , it will be a large jigsaw puzzle.  I have mapped two trilogies, and that's the entire "jigsaw".  Each part will complete a picture within the jigsaw, but I won't be re-shaping the pieces that do not fit.
           
          AND.....if it does not "succeed" as a POTA story it will be adaptable so that the ape characters can be changed to - for example - computers/human prisoners/alien visitors etc.
           
          Thoughts?
           
          Michael
          -----Original Message-----
          From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Neil
          Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 9:45 AM
          To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [PotaDG] Re: TV Show Comic GOING HOME

          --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "mike_oz2005" <Michael.Whitty@d...>
          wrote:
          > Speaking of such - Neil.....do you thing after WITHIN we could re-
          show the first 10 pages of GOING HOME then maybe share the following
          12?

          -- Fine by me if there is enough interest but I would suggest that if
          we do, we show them as the pencilled pages as the first 10 inked pages
          have already been seen by most on the group and this would at least be
          something 'new' for everyone.

          Neil
          <.html

          <.html
          Group: potadg Message: 34856 From: taebokitti@aol.com Date: 1/8/2006
          Subject: Re: A Question - A good question
          .html
          .html
          In a message dated 1/8/2006 2:52:49 PM Pacific Standard Time, LordTZer0@... writes:
          In a message dated 1/8/2006 2:49:34 P.M. Central Standard Time, mlccougar@... writes:
          All the apes in there are supposed to be apes, not some are evolved and some aren't...
           
          Maybe, but if they can all talk, why didn't they?
          Nothing to say?  Not much to talk about? 
           
          "Well I woke up and than I ate a banana.  Then
          I threw some feces at my cage mates, and then
          I took a nap before lunch."
           
          That's saying that they all could talk already.
          They were all intelligent already, but basically
          in the same position as the Planet Humans.
          I think that's a bit of a stretch, don't you?
           
          What about intelligent apes who know sign language? They might discuss other subjects besides lunch and throwing feces. Elaine
           


          YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

          <.html
          <.html
          Group: potadg Message: 34857 From: Whitty, Michael Date: 1/8/2006
          Subject: Re: Within the Planet of the Apes strip #67
          .html
          .html
          Don't ANSA that Neil!  ;)
          -----Original Message-----
          From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of taebokitti@...
          Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 10:35 AM
          To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Within the Planet of the Apes strip #67

          So his name is ANSA type 2? I want one to clean my house. Elaine
          <.html

          <.html
          Group: potadg Message: 34858 From: Whitty, Michael Date: 1/8/2006
          Subject: Re: A Question - A good question
          .html
          .html
          There really is FAR too much sloppy stuff that makes no sense!
          -----Original Message-----
          From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of taebokitti@...
          Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 10:41 AM
          To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: A Question - A good question

          In a message dated 1/8/2006 2:52:49 PM Pacific Standard Time, LordTZer0@... writes:
          In a message dated 1/8/2006 2:49:34 P.M. Central Standard Time, mlccougar@... writes:
          All the apes in there are supposed to be apes, not some are evolved and some aren't...
           
          Maybe, but if they can all talk, why didn't they?
          Nothing to say?  Not much to talk about? 
           
          "Well I woke up and than I ate a banana.  Then
          I threw some feces at my cage mates, and then
          I took a nap before lunch."
           
          That's saying that they all could talk already.
          They were all intelligent already, but basically
          in the same position as the Planet Humans.
          I think that's a bit of a stretch, don't you?
           
          What about intelligent apes who know sign language? They might discuss other subjects besides lunch and throwing feces. Elaine
           
          <.html

          <.html
          Group: potadg Message: 34859 From: Neil Date: 1/8/2006
          Subject: Re: TV Show Comic GOING HOME
          .html
          --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Whitty, Michael" <Michael.Whitty@d...>
          wrote:
          > AND.....if it does not "succeed" as a POTA story it will be
          adaptable so that the ape characters can be changed to - for example -
          computers/human prisoners/alien visitors etc.

          -- Apeslayer in reverse then?! ;-)

          Neil
          <.html
          Group: potadg Message: 34860 From: taebokitti@aol.com Date: 1/8/2006
          Subject: Re: TV Show Comic GOING HOME
          .html
          .html Are you going to modernize it, have the roles changed. For example, gorillas will be peaceful and chimps more aggressive, like we know today. Or are you going to stick to the original novel? Are you going to create more female apes? Elaine<.html
          <.html
          Group: potadg Message: 34861 From: Whitty, Michael Date: 1/8/2006
          Subject: Re: TV Show Comic GOING HOME
          .html
          .html
          Yes indeed.
           
          The exact opposite.
           
          Michael
          -----Original Message-----
          From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Neil
          Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 10:45 AM
          To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [PotaDG] Re: TV Show Comic GOING HOME

          --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Whitty, Michael" <Michael.Whitty@d...>
          wrote:
          > AND.....if it does not "succeed" as a POTA story it will be
          adaptable so that the ape characters can be changed to - for example -
          computers/human prisoners/alien visitors etc.

          -- Apeslayer in reverse then?! ;-)

          Neil
          <.html

          <.html
          Group: potadg Message: 34862 From: merlynpota Date: 1/8/2006
          Subject: Re: A Question - A good question
          .html
          IMO...the apes were always smart enough...just not around humans on a
          on-on-one basis enough to pick up the language until after the were
          kept as pets and later as slaves...like we can't go to Mexico and
          speak fluent Spanish the first day...we have to learn by
          association...the language skills would slowly EVOLVE :-)

          --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, taebokitti@a... wrote:
          >
          > In a message dated 1/8/2006 2:52:49 PM Pacific Standard Time,
          > LordTZer0@A... writes:
          > In a message dated 1/8/2006 2:49:34 P.M. Central Standard Time,
          > mlccougar@a... writes:
          > All the apes in there are supposed to be apes, not some are evolved
          and some
          > aren't...
          >
          > Maybe, but if they can all talk, why didn't they?
          > Nothing to say? Not much to talk about?
          >
          > "Well I woke up and than I ate a banana. Then
          > I threw some feces at my cage mates, and then
          > I took a nap before lunch."
          >
          > That's saying that they all could talk already.
          > They were all intelligent already, but basically
          > in the same position as the Planet Humans.
          > I think that's a bit of a stretch, don't you?
          >
          > What about intelligent apes who know sign language? They might
          discuss other
          > subjects besides lunch and throwing feces. Elaine
          >
          >
          >
          > SPONSORED LINKS Fantasy science fiction Science fiction books
          Science fiction
          > book club
          > Science fiction magazine Science fiction novel Writing science
          fiction
          >
          >
          >
          > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
          >
          > Visit your group "PotaDG" on the web.
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > mailto:PotaDG-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          Service.
          >
          <.html
          Group: potadg Message: 34863 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 1/8/2006
          Subject: Re: A Question - A good question
          .html
          .html
          In a message dated 1/8/2006 5:41:37 P.M. Central Standard Time, taebokitti@... writes:
          What about intelligent apes who know sign language? They might discuss other subjects besides lunch and throwing feces
           
          Koko's adopted brother, Michael,  told the story about when his mother
          was killed and was very sad.  But it's a big jump from signing it to
          speaking it.  I know I wouldn't bother signing it out if I could just say it.
           
          <.html
          <.html
          Group: potadg Message: 34864 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 1/8/2006
          Subject: Re: TV Show Comic GOING HOME
          .html
          .html
           
          Is it just me, or is James an insufferable ass?
           
           
          <.html
          <.html
          Group: potadg Message: 34865 From: Whitty, Michael Date: 1/8/2006
          Subject: A Question - A good question
          .html
          .html
          That's the way Boulle did it (well, for the ASTRONAUT that is to pick up the ape language).
           
          Michael
          -----Original Message-----
          From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of merlynpota
          Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 11:24 AM
          To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [PotaDG] Re: A Question - A good question

          IMO...the apes were always smart enough...just not around humans on a
          on-on-one basis enough to pick up the language until after the were
          kept as pets and later as slaves...like we can't go to Mexico and
          speak fluent Spanish the first day...we have to learn by
          association...the language skills would slowly EVOLVE :-)

          --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, taebokitti@a... wrote:
          >
          > In a message dated 1/8/2006 2:52:49 PM Pacific Standard Time,
          > LordTZer0@A... writes:
          > In a message dated 1/8/2006 2:49:34 P.M. Central Standard Time,
          > mlccougar@a... writes:
          > All the apes in there are supposed to be apes, not some are evolved
          and some
          > aren't...
          >
          > Maybe, but if they can all talk, why didn't they?
          > Nothing to say?  Not much to talk about? 
          >
          > "Well I woke up and than I ate a banana.  Then
          > I threw some feces at my cage mates, and then
          > I took a nap before lunch."
          >
          > That's saying that they all could talk already.
          > They were all intelligent already, but basically
          > in the same position as the Planet Humans.
          > I think that's a bit of a stretch, don't you?
          >
          > What about intelligent apes who know sign language? They might
          discuss other
          > subjects besides lunch and throwing feces. Elaine
          >
          >
          >
          > SPONSORED LINKS Fantasy science fiction Science fiction books
          Science fiction
          > book club
          > Science fiction magazine Science fiction novel Writing science
          fiction
          >
          >
          >
          > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
          >
          >  Visit your group "PotaDG" on the web.
          >  
          >  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          >  mailto:PotaDG-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe
          >  
          >  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          Service.
          >
          <.html

          <.html
          Group: potadg Message: 34866 From: Whitty, Michael Date: 1/8/2006
          Subject: TV Show Comic GOING HOME
          .html
          .html
          My suggestion is, if you are sick of him, leave his group.
           
          Any other avenue will leave you unsatisfoed AND exhausted!

          Michael
          -----Original Message-----
          From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of LordTZer0@...
          Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 11:51 AM
          To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [PotaDG] TV Show Comic GOING HOME

           
          Is it just me, or is James an insufferable ass?
          <.html

          <.html
          Group: potadg Message: 34867 From: Whitty, Michael Date: 1/8/2006
          Subject: TV Show Comic GOING HOME
          .html
          .html
          What happened?
          -----Original Message-----
          From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of LordTZer0@...
          Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 11:51 AM
          To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [PotaDG] TV Show Comic GOING HOME

           
          Is it just me, or is James an insufferable ass?
          <.html

          <.html
          Group: potadg Message: 34868 From: Haristas@aol.com Date: 1/8/2006
          Subject: Re: Timelines
          .html
          .html.html In a message dated 1/8/06 4:17:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, mlccougar@... writes:


          In a message dated 1/8/2006 3:15:55 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

          if they just blended in and stayed to themselves…..but then again, maybe THAT would have led to MANY siblings and a more subtle "CONQUEST" that humans did NOT see coming!



          Which would have been a lot cooler to see in many ways...



          What I'd like to know is why, after being told the future from Cornelius and Zira, mankind turned to domesticating apes anyway?  Just how dumb was that?

          -- Rory
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          Group: potadg Message: 34869 From: Haristas@aol.com Date: 1/8/2006
          Subject: Re: WALMART-POTA
          .html
          .html.html In a message dated 1/8/06 4:46:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, brindlepit2002@... writes:


          hi-
          the race question might best be answered by black people, but over the years i have heard a diversity of opinions from black co-workers and friends.
          rob/ron



          And those opinions would be....?

          -- Rory
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          Group: potadg Message: 34870 From: Whitty, Michael Date: 1/8/2006
          Subject: Re: Timelines
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          Yeah - that's just really silly.
           
          Michael
          -----Original Message-----
          From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Haristas@...
          Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 12:49 PM
          To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Timelines

          In a message dated 1/8/06 4:17:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, mlccougar@... writes:


          In a message dated 1/8/2006 3:15:55 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

          if they just blended in and stayed to themselves…..but then again, maybe THAT would have led to MANY siblings and a more subtle "CONQUEST" that humans did NOT see coming!



          Which would have been a lot cooler to see in many ways...



          What I'd like to know is why, after being told the future from Cornelius and Zira, mankind turned to domesticating apes anyway?  Just how dumb was that?

          -- Rory
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          Group: potadg Message: 34871 From: Whitty, Michael Date: 1/8/2006
          Subject: Re: TV Show Comic GOING HOME
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          Yes indeed.
           
          There will also be more countries involved, not just the USA!
           
          And all races, not just caucasians!

          However, rather than change the roles, I think one could EXPLAIN them (ie gorillas were genetically altered to BE more aggressive bacause they are built to be a better killing machine that chimps, but they are not ALL killing machines....).
           
          Of course there will be more female apes - orangs and gorillas too.
           
          Michael
          -----Original Message-----
          From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of taebokitti@...
          Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 10:46 AM
          To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [PotaDG] TV Show Comic GOING HOME

          Are you going to modernize it, have the roles changed. For example, gorillas will be peaceful and chimps more aggressive, like we know today. Or are you going to stick to the original novel? Are you going to create more female apes? Elaine
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          Group: potadg Message: 34872 From: John Date: 1/8/2006
          Subject: Re: Within the Planet of the Apes strip #67
          .html
          Don't encourage him! Bad Neil! NO! That's a bad hippy!!! No more meds
          for you till you show you can be resposible. That's a very bad Neil!



          --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Whitty, Michael"
          <Michael.Whitty@d...> wrote:
          >
          > Just by the way - this was originally written to T-8006d as
          a "talking"
          > computer screen.
          >
          > But hey, why not a robot? Nice touch Neil!
          >
          > Michael
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On
          Behalf Of
          > Neil T Foster
          > Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 9:03 AM
          > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [PotaDG] Within the Planet of the Apes strip #67
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
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          Last updated 2026-03-31 10:43.