Your scaring me with the "re-imagining" thing and it sounds like your
taking a generic idea and applying it to Planet of the Apes. I hope
you know what your doing. I trust you... but then again I was excited
about Tim Burton at one time too.




--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Whitty, Michael"
<Michael.Whitty@d...> wrote:

>
> Sounds good to me.
>
> Neil and I have actually decided that after this 22 pages, the next

2 parts

> of this comic will be written and roughed, then placed in limbo.

It is more

> than obvious now that we would need these to be coloured to find

them

> published, so inking them is essentially a waste of time because to
> colourist would colour the pencils (Ty, is that correct?).
>
> Given all the debates about timelines, and my conclusion that there

is no

> serious way to reconcile the whole conundrum, the next project Neil

and I

> are writing is "a re-imagining"!
>
> In a way, it will be able to (loosely) fit into the saga as the way

we see

> the original (r)evolution of apes into upright, speaking threats to

the

> future of humanity.
>
> BUT - it will essentially be a fresh start.
>
> AND it will be EXTREMELY respectful to PLANET, and it will be

mindful of the

> sequels and the TV Show.
>
> The way it is planned , it will be a large jigsaw puzzle. I have

mapped two

> trilogies, and that's the entire "jigsaw". Each part will complete

a

> picture within the jigsaw, but I won't be re-shaping the pieces

that do not

> fit.
>
> AND.....if it does not "succeed" as a POTA story it will be

adaptable so

> that the ape characters can be changed to - for example -

computers/human

> prisoners/alien visitors etc.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On

Behalf Of

> Neil
> Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 9:45 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: TV Show Comic GOING HOME
>
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "mike_oz2005" <Michael.Whitty@d...>
> wrote:
> > Speaking of such - Neil.....do you thing after WITHIN we could re-
> show the first 10 pages of GOING HOME then maybe share the following
> 12?
>
> -- Fine by me if there is enough interest but I would suggest that

if

> we do, we show them as the pencilled pages as the first 10 inked

pages

> have already been seen by most on the group and this would at least

be

> something 'new' for everyone.
>
> Neil
>
>
>

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of John
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 1:44 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: TV Show Comic GOING HOME

Your scaring me with the "re-imagining" thing and it sounds like your
taking a generic idea and applying it to Planet of the Apes. I hope
you know what your doing. I trust you... but then again I was excited
about Tim Burton at one time too.




--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Whitty, Michael"
<Michael.Whitty@d...> wrote:
>
> Sounds good to me.
> 
> Neil and I have actually decided that after this 22 pages, the next
2 parts
> of this comic will be written and roughed, then placed in limbo. 
It is more
> than obvious now that we would need these to be coloured to find
them
> published, so inking them is essentially a waste of time because to
> colourist would colour the pencils (Ty, is that correct?).
> 
> Given all the debates about timelines, and my conclusion that there
is no
> serious way to reconcile the whole conundrum, the next project Neil
and I
> are writing is "a re-imagining"!
> 
> In a way, it will be able to (loosely) fit into the saga as the way
we see

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Neil
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 10:45 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: TV Show Comic GOING HOME

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Whitty, Michael" <Michael.Whitty@d...>
wrote:
> AND.....if it does not "succeed" as a POTA story it will be
adaptable so that the ape characters can be changed to - for example -
computers/human prisoners/alien visitors etc.

-- Apeslayer in reverse then?! ;-)

Neil

<.html

.html.html In a message dated 1/8/2006 5:43:21 PM Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

AND.....if it does not "succeed" as a POTA story it will be adaptable so that the ape characters can be changed to - for example - computers/human prisoners/alien visitors etc.
 


Then it sounds like an ADVENTURE Comics story, (or a LOT of the Marvel stuff) where the apes were just substituted for "computers/human prisoners/alien visitors, etc."

Either make it an APES story or don't... If it can be thta interchangable, then maybe it's not as APES as you may think it is?<.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 1/8/2006 5:47:53 PM Central Standard Time, taebokitti@... writes:

For example, gorillas will be peaceful and chimps more aggressive, like we know today.

The chimps in POTA have evolved though... As their intelligence rose, their personas also changed with that... They moved beyond their current way of being to become "pacifistic"...

And the Gorillas were chosen to be the defenders of the ape society due to their size and strength... As their role was defined, "maybe" their personas changed with it... That, or even though their intelligence rose, their personas reverted to a more aggressive creature... (Just like on the show LAND OF THE LOST, where the Altrusians actually "devolved" into aggressive creatures...)

<.html <.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 2:25 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] TV Show Comic GOING HOME

In a message dated 1/8/2006 5:43:21 PM Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

AND.....if it does not "succeed" as a POTA story it will be adaptable so that the ape characters can be changed to - for example - computers/human prisoners/alien visitors etc.
 

Then it sounds like an ADVENTURE Comics story, (or a LOT of the Marvel stuff) where the apes were just substituted for "computers/human prisoners/alien visitors, etc."

Either make it an APES story or don't... If it can be thta interchangable, then maybe it's not as APES as you may think it is?

<.html

.html.html In a message dated 1/8/2006 7:49:56 PM Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

What I'd like to know is why, after being told the future from Cornelius and Zira, mankind turned to domesticating apes anyway?  Just how dumb was that?

Again, I gotta agree with that... If you see the hand-writing on the wall, and are too stupid to read it, then it's your own fault...

I still blame Dehn for that, and I also contend that they just had the revolt happen that quick so they could keep up the continuity with existing figures...<.html <.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 2:31 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] TV Show Comic GOING HOME

In a message dated 1/8/2006 5:47:53 PM Central Standard Time, taebokitti@... writes:

For example, gorillas will be peaceful and chimps more aggressive, like we know today.

The chimps in POTA have evolved though... As their intelligence rose, their personas also changed with that... They moved beyond their current way of being to become "pacifistic"...

And the Gorillas were chosen to be the defenders of the ape society due to their size and strength... As their role was defined, "maybe" their personas changed with it... That, or even though their intelligence rose, their personas reverted to a more aggressive creature... (Just like on the show LAND OF THE LOST, where the Altrusians actually "devolved" into aggressive creatures...)

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 2:38 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Timelines

In a message dated 1/8/2006 7:49:56 PM Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

What I'd like to know is why, after being told the future from Cornelius and Zira, mankind turned to domesticating apes anyway?  Just how dumb was that?

Again, I gotta agree with that... If you see the hand-writing on the wall, and are too stupid to read it, then it's your own fault...

I still blame Dehn for that, and I also contend that they just had the revolt happen that quick so they could keep up the continuity with existing figures...

<.html

.html.html In a message dated 1/8/2006 8:49:49 PM Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

But my answer to "well how come the phones in BENEATH have dials on them if the nuke war was in 2255?"

Try like they had no other phones when they made the movie in 1969...

At least though in the TV series, they "tried" to make an alternate looking phone for the B.A.R.T. station...<.html <.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 2:38 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Timelines

In a message dated 1/8/2006 7:49:56 PM Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

What I'd like to know is why, after being told the future from Cornelius and Zira, mankind turned to domesticating apes anyway?  Just how dumb was that?

Again, I gotta agree with that... If you see the hand-writing on the wall, and are too stupid to read it, then it's your own fault...

I still blame Dehn for that, and I also contend that they just had the revolt happen that quick so they could keep up the continuity with existing figures...

<.html

.html.html In a message dated 1/8/2006 9:00:49 PM Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

And like "I, Robot" - the movie - using apes instead of robots.
 
And like "Terminator" - using apes instead of machines.
 
And like Matrix....etc etc.


...And APE-NATION using apes in place of human cops (which they were in the film/TV show and should have remained!!!!)<.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 1/8/2006 8:44:40 PM Central Standard Time, DrZaiusDavis@... writes:

Your scaring me with the "re-imagining" thing and it sounds like your
taking a generic idea and applying it to Planet of the Apes. I hope
you know what your doing.

EXACTLY!!!!!!

My "fears" exactly!!!!

We may be getting comics with apes in them, but how APES are they really going to be?!?

<.html <.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 2:46 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: TV Show Comic GOING HOME

In a message dated 1/8/2006 9:00:49 PM Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

And like "I, Robot" - the movie - using apes instead of robots.
 
And like "Terminator" - using apes instead of machines.
 
And like Matrix....etc etc.

...And APE-NATION using apes in place of human cops (which they were in the film/TV show and should have remained!!!!)

 

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 2:44 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] TV Show Comic GOING HOME

In a message dated 1/8/2006 8:49:49 PM Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

But my answer to "well how come the phones in BENEATH have dials on them if the nuke war was in 2255?"

Try like they had no other phones when they made the movie in 1969...

At least though in the TV series, they "tried" to make an alternate looking phone for the B.A.R.T. station...

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 2:42 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: TV Show Comic GOING HOME

In a message dated 1/8/2006 8:44:40 PM Central Standard Time, DrZaiusDavis@... writes:

Your scaring me with the "re-imagining" thing and it sounds like your
taking a generic idea and applying it to Planet of the Apes. I hope
you know what your doing.

EXACTLY!!!!!!

My "fears" exactly!!!!

We may be getting comics with apes in them, but how APES are they really going to be?!?

.html.html In a message dated 1/8/2006 9:33:01 PM Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

Tell me how it would change the messages if they were alien masks instead of ape masks, and the shattering conclusion is that aliens have overthrown humankind instead of apes?

I see your point there, I'm not gonna argue it, cause it's valid...

But i just don't want to see anything go the way of what we had in the past...<.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 1/8/2006 9:33:01 PM Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

As I said, it will be able to be looked upon as a prequel to PLANET, but it will not withtand the scrutiny of questions like "why are the phones in BENEATH dial phones?".

Well, if that'd be the only question anyone would have about the "how's and why's", then that's just ridiculous... I mean if someone asked that, then they might as well ask why the spaceship isn't the space shuttle Columbia...

People need to remember "when" these films were made, and that with limited budgets, they often had to use what was already existing, rather than have the props dept. come up with some fancy contraption... <.html <.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 2:52 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] TV Show Comic GOING HOME

In a message dated 1/8/2006 9:33:01 PM Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

Tell me how it would change the messages if they were alien masks instead of ape masks, and the shattering conclusion is that aliens have overthrown humankind instead of apes?

I see your point there, I'm not gonna argue it, cause it's valid...

But i just don't want to see anything go the way of what we had in the past...

.html.html In a message dated 1/8/2006 9:40:58 PM Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

There are rigid controls over ape numbers, but of course between the army and greedy scientists who illegally "grow" apes to farm them for body parts (as I said, these parts are genetically enhanced to be able to be used in humans),

Did you "borrow" that idea from the film "THE ISLAND"? (A good film btw...)<.html <.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 2:51 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] TV Show Comic GOING HOME

In a message dated 1/8/2006 9:33:01 PM Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

As I said, it will be able to be looked upon as a prequel to PLANET, but it will not withtand the scrutiny of questions like "why are the phones in BENEATH dial phones?".

Well, if that'd be the only question anyone would have about the "how's and why's", then that's just ridiculous... I mean if someone asked that, then they might as well ask why the spaceship isn't the space shuttle Columbia...

People need to remember "when" these films were made, and that with limited budgets, they often had to use what was already existing, rather than have the props dept. come up with some fancy contraption...

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 2:55 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] TV Show Comic GOING HOME

In a message dated 1/8/2006 9:40:58 PM Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

There are rigid controls over ape numbers, but of course between the army and greedy scientists who illegally "grow" apes to farm them for body parts (as I said, these parts are genetically enhanced to be able to be used in humans),

Did you "borrow" that idea from the film "THE ISLAND"? (A good film btw...)

.html.html In a message dated 1/8/2006 9:45:59 PM Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

But I WOULD attempt to explain how Cornelius might find evidence of a cat and dog plague (ie he watches an old Sci Fi DVD and thinks it is a documentary!) - however he would be mistaken....

C'mon now... THAT is stretching it... Where in their city is he going to have the DVD player and the TV, and the electricity?

As much as Dehn screwed things up at times, the Sacred Scrolls that Cornelius learned these truths from would be "canon", so you really can't re-invent that...

As far as your story goes then, you're better off forgetting ALL that was in the films to begin with and start totally fresh... Don't try tying the films in with your new scenario...<.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 1/8/2006 9:48:59 PM Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

But there is evidence in PLANET of a SORT of army - or is it just a HUMAN HUNTING CLUB?  They certainly took their training seriously

In PLANET, there is no mention of an army, just the Security Police and the Hunt Club...  (Of course that's not to say that there was "not" an army, we just didn't see/hear about it, because it wasn't part of the story...)

But you're correct, in both cases, they took  their training seriously...<.html <.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 3:02 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Timelines

In a message dated 1/8/2006 9:45:59 PM Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

But I WOULD attempt to explain how Cornelius might find evidence of a cat and dog plague (ie he watches an old Sci Fi DVD and thinks it is a documentary!) - however he would be mistaken....

C'mon now... THAT is stretching it... Where in their city is he going to have the DVD player and the TV, and the electricity?

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 3:02 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Timelines

As much as Dehn screwed things up at times, the Sacred Scrolls that Cornelius learned these truths from would be "canon", so you really can't re-invent that...

As far as your story goes then, you're better off forgetting ALL that was in the films to begin with and start totally fresh... Don't try tying the films in with your new scenario... mailbox). Classification: UNCLASSIFIED

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 3:02 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Timelines

As far as your story goes then, you're better off forgetting ALL that was in the films to begin with and start totally fresh... Don't try tying the films in with your new scenario...

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 3:07 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: TV Show Comic GOING HOME

In a message dated 1/8/2006 9:48:59 PM Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

But there is evidence in PLANET of a SORT of army - or is it just a HUMAN HUNTING CLUB?  They certainly took their training seriously

In PLANET, there is no mention of an army, just the Security Police and the Hunt Club...  (Of course that's not to say that there was "not" an army, we just didn't see/hear about it, because it wasn't part of the story...)

But you're correct, in both cases, they took  their training seriously...

<.html

.html.html In a message dated 1/8/2006 10:22:40 PM Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

Yeah - when they stab straw dummies like that they seem to be "apeing" an army at least...

Well, that's because that scene is in BENEATH, when they DO have the army...<.html <.html

.html <.html

It's in my photo folder here...

http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/potadg/lst?.dir=/Merlyn%
27s+custom+apes&.src=gr&.view=t

Thanks for looking...
Paul

.html.html In a message dated 1/8/2006 10:42:16 PM Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

This weekend "King Kong" dropped to # 3 at the North American box office, behind the new horror movie "Hostel" (# 1 with $20 million) and "Narnia" (# 2 with $15 million). "Kong" made $12 mil. So much for those of us who thought Kong would be the Great Ape Hope and greenlight all those ape movies in the wings.

What is it's gross so far in the U.S.?

And, I didn't at all expect it to "greenlight" any simian themed films, but I sure as hell hoped it would sink that damned "Titanic"...<.html <.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of merlynpota
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 4:30 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Uploaded a new Mego Custom

It's in my photo folder here...

http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/potadg/lst?.dir=/Merlyn%
27s+custom+apes&.src=gr&.view=t

Thanks for looking...
Paul

<.html

The link doesn't work...any suggestions on how to fix that??

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Whitty, Michael"
<Michael.Whitty@d...> wrote:

>
> Cool - THANKS!
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On

Behalf Of

> merlynpota
> Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 4:30 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Uploaded a new Mego Custom
>
>
> It's in my photo folder here...
>
> http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/potadg/lst?.dir=/Merlyn%
> <http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/potadg/lst?.dir=/Merlyn%>
> 27s+custom+apes&.src=gr&.view=t
>
> Thanks for looking...
> Paul
>
>
>

.html.html In a message dated 1/8/2006 11:36:29 PM Central Standard Time, merlynpota@... writes:

The link doesn't work...any suggestions on how to fix that??

It worked for me...    

<.html<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of merlynpota
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 4:35 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Uploaded a new Mego Custom

The link doesn't work...any suggestions on how to fix that??

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Whitty, Michael"
<Michael.Whitty@d...> wrote:
>
> Cool - THANKS!
> 
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On
Behalf Of
> merlynpota
> Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 4:30 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Uploaded a new Mego Custom
>
>
> It's in my photo folder here...
>
> http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/potadg/lst?.dir=/Merlyn%
> <http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/potadg/lst?.dir=/Merlyn%>
> 27s+custom+apes&.src=gr&.view=t
>
> Thanks for looking...
> Paul

<.html

.html <.html

.html

In a message dated 1/8/2006 7:11:06 P.M. Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

What happened?

 

Well I don't really know how to explain it without

taking quotes from the other group, which Neil

has said is a no no.  But basically he's asking

if I can cite evidence that states there

are two timeline, other than the 500

year timeframe.  What the hell, Man?

Is this some sort of publication, that

I need a second source for?  At least

I have something to back my opinions

with, which is more than some have.

If the timeframe is at odds with Planet

and Beneath, that's just sloppy writing.

This is fiction after all, not history.

Though that's often just a fiction

that hasn't been exposed yet.

 

 

 

<.html

.html

In a message dated 1/8/2006 8:19:44 P.M. Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

BE more aggressive bacause they are built to be a better killing machine that chimps, but they are not ALL killing machines....).

 

There was a species found recently.

Sort of a cross between them.  Either

a gorilla with chimp behaviors or a very

gorilla like chimp, or something like that.

 

 

<.html

.html <.html

.html

In a message dated 1/8/2006 8:49:54 P.M. Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

The only thing wrong with a re-imagining is if it is poorly done and the story is a hyped up piece of shit reliant on "action" and FX.

 

Yeah, the movie in the trailer looked better then the one they actually showed.

 

Now bow your heads! . . .

and

"Bring ME the spaceman you c***s***er."

     ~~~Thade Soze~~~~

 

<.html

.html

In a message dated 1/8/2006 9:40:58 P.M. Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

There are rigid controls over ape numbers, but of course between the army and greedy scientists who illegally "grow" apes to farm them for body parts (as I said, these parts are genetically enhanced to be able to be used in humans), the numbers are MUCH higher than permitted.

 

Hey I want my baboon heart as soon as it's ready!

And one for the road!

 

 

 

<.html

.html

In a message dated 1/8/2006 9:46:00 P.M. Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

I can justify them being our servants as I described (farmed and made killing machines), but inviting them in is much like inviting dracula to be your servant - you would never SLEEP!

 

They were quartered in cages, but moved freely in human homes.

 

<.html

.html

In a message dated 1/8/2006 9:46:00 P.M. Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

I can justify them being our servants

 

I'm not keen on their cooking.

Some of them didn't quite have

the hand washing thing down.

 

 

<.html

.html

In a message dated 1/8/2006 9:55:11 P.M. Central Standard Time, mlccougar@... writes:

As I said, it will be able to be looked upon as a prequel to PLANET, but it will not withtand the scrutiny of questions like "why are the phones in BENEATH dial phones?".

 

eh....That's what was around in those days.  Touchtone phones were just something they were playing with and let you play with when you went to the House Of Tomorrow at Disneyland.  Like the Videophone.  You messed with it for a minute and said, "Gee won't it be cool when we ha 'em?"  And though we do now, I still don't know a single person with one.  And I'll probably be one of the last to bother.  It's like the SkyCar they sound in the Nieman Marcus Christmas catalogue.  It's just a prototype.  It's not even licensed.  They only sold it to raise the money to build a new prototype.  So when they do test fly it, if it crashes they can build another.  Don't hold your breath waiting to take a flying car to work.  They've been working on it since about the time I was at Disneyland.

 

<.html

.html

In a message dated 1/9/2006 2:25:54 A.M. Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

The bonobo chimp?

 

No, bonobos are smaller than a standard chimp.

These things are huge.  As big as gorillas, if not

bigger.  It's like they took a chimp, darkened his

face, flared his nostrils and gave him a bottle of

steroids.  They are that big.  If there's another

missing link, one for chimps and gorillas, this is it!

 

 

<.html

.html

In a message dated 1/9/2006 2:25:54 A.M. Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

The bonobo chimp?

 

And bonobos aren't new.

Well not new new anyway.

I think if you look threw last years

archives you'll find a link.

 

<.html

.html <.html

.html.html Wal-Mart: Error to Blame for MLK Link

By MARCUS KABEL, AP Business Writer Fri Jan 6, 5:59 PM ET



Human error is to blame for an offensive link at Wal-Mart's Web site that recommended a film about Martin Luther King Jr. to potential buyers of a "Planet of the Apes" DVD, the retail company said Friday.

The mistake resulted from a well-intentioned effort to promote a DVD about the black leader, said Carter Cast, president of walmart.com, the online shopping arm of Wal-Mart Stores Inc.

A business manager had grouped "Martin Luther King: I Have a Dream" with three other black-themed movies and assigned the package an overly broad category of DVD boxed sets, Cast said.

So when an online visitor looked at a listing for the boxed DVD set "Planet of the Apes: The Complete TV Series," the black-themed movies appeared under "similar items."

Cast said the display juxtaposition may have existed for the past year.

Wal-Mart removed the feature from its Web site Thursday after learning of the juxtaposition from reporters. Wal-Mart apologized and shut down indefinitely its entire online system for referring shoppers to other movies.

Cast said there was no racist motivation.

"There was nobody here who maliciously put together that combination," Cast said by phone from walmart.com's headquarters in Brisbane, Calif. "I know the person was well-intended in trying to get the 'I Have a Dream' speech out as a cross-sell."

Walmart.com uses a different system than many other big online vendors to create cross-selling links. Amazon.com, for example, bases recommendations on what a shopper has bought before and what other consumers who buy a certain item also purchased.

Walmart.com manually assigns movies to specific "item display groups," such as science fiction or African-American culture. The company's internally developed software then generates links guiding shoppers to other movies in that group.

Beside the "Apes" boxed set, the King package could have been linked to any of a random selection of other boxed set titles from a group of more than 260, including "Best Of Hitchcock, Vol. 1 (Collector's Series)."

Cast said walmart.com would only start cross-referencing movies again once it has a new system in place to avoid a repeat. That could be a technology more like what Amazon.com uses or another approach, he said.

"We are looking at a bunch of different solutions right now," Cast said.




<.html<.html

YOU BLASPHEAMER!!!! The most important thing about Planet of the Apes
are the APES! Tred lightly my friend. I'm not sure I wanna go along
with you on this ride. I hope I am pleasantly surprised the way I was
with "Going Home" but I am starting to worry that you've lost
interest in the "Apes" franchise and need to explore other areas.
Which is totally understandable but don't put out a "Planet of the
Apes" story that is not a "Planet of the Apes" story. That's what
separated you from the mindless crap we had been fed, you knew and
cared about these characters and stories as much as we did. Please
don't change that now.



--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Whitty, Michael"
<Michael.Whitty@d...> wrote:

>
> As I said, it will be able to be looked upon as a prequel to

PLANET, but it

> will not withtand the scrutiny of questions like "why are the

phones in

> BENEATH dial phones?".
>
> Is that any great loss Cougar?
>
> Tell me, if you re-filmed POTA and used robots instead of

apes......how

> would it degrade the movie?
>
> Isn't it exchangeable? Isn't it about humankind being overthrown

by "lesser

> beings"?
>
> Isn't it about the nature of humans?
>
> Tell me how it would change the messages if they were alien masks

instead of

> ape masks, and the shattering conclusion is that aliens have

overthrown

> humankind instead of apes?
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On

Behalf Of

> mlccougar@a...
> Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 2:25 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] TV Show Comic GOING HOME
>
>
> In a message dated 1/8/2006 5:43:21 PM Central Standard Time,
> Michael.Whitty@d... writes:
>
>
>
> AND.....if it does not "succeed" as a POTA story it will be

adaptable so

> that the ape characters can be changed to - for example -

computers/human

> prisoners/alien visitors etc.
>
>
>
>
>
> Then it sounds like an ADVENTURE Comics story, (or a LOT of the

Marvel

> stuff) where the apes were just substituted for "computers/human
> prisoners/alien visitors, etc."
>
> Either make it an APES story or don't... If it can be thta

interchangable,

> then maybe it's not as APES as you may think it is?
>
>
>

So its "CONGO on the Planet of the Apes?"



--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Whitty, Michael"
<Michael.Whitty@d...> wrote:

>
> Well, I'd actually have it that they are genetically manipulated to

be

> killing machines.
>
> All right - i'll give away SOME of the plot.
>
> The future is NOT as we would expect it.
>
> Computer viruses have caused chaos on a grand scale - identity

theft is

> rampant.
>
> The military, in their ebndeavour to create the most effective

killing

> machines, have been training apes to operate their weapons and to

deliver

> suicide bombing campaigns. Of course, we have saved the apes from
> extinction and now they are FAR from extinct. Remember, the reason

we are

> using apes is because electronics are too unreliable and re-

progammable.

>
> So we now have the premise.....too many apes, and they have been

manipulated

> (which explains changes in their look, stance, numbers,

intelligence,

> EVERYTHING!).
>
> There are rigid controls over ape numbers, but of course between

the army

> and greedy scientists who illegally "grow" apes to farm them for

body parts

> (as I said, these parts are genetically enhanced to be able to be

used in

> humans), the numbers are MUCH higher than permitted.
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On

Behalf Of

> mlccougar@a...
> Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 2:31 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] TV Show Comic GOING HOME
>
>
> In a message dated 1/8/2006 5:47:53 PM Central Standard Time,
> taebokitti@a... writes:
>
>
>
> For example, gorillas will be peaceful and chimps more aggressive,

like we

> know today.
>
>
>
> The chimps in POTA have evolved though... As their intelligence

rose, their

> personas also changed with that... They moved beyond their current

way of

> being to become "pacifistic"...
>
> And the Gorillas were chosen to be the defenders of the ape society

due to

> their size and strength... As their role was defined, "maybe" their

personas

> changed with it... That, or even though their intelligence rose,

their

> personas reverted to a more aggressive creature... (Just like on

the show

> LAND OF THE LOST, where the Altrusians actually "devolved" into

aggressive

> creatures...)
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Fantasy science fiction Science fiction books Science

fiction book

> club
> Science fiction magazine Science fiction novel Writing

science

> fiction
>
> _____
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
>
> * Visit your group " PotaDG

<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG> "

> on the web.
>
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> PotaDG-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:PotaDG-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of

Service

> <
>
>
> _____
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , mlccougar@a... wrote:

>
> In a message dated 1/8/2006 12:04:52 PM Central Standard Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
> > In the POTA world, there were "primitive" apes AND there

were "evolved apes" co-existing with them. Many of the apes shipped to
Breck's city from overseas were primitive ones -- like the orangutans
from Borneo amongst whom Caesar hid initially.

>
> All the apes in there are supposed to be apes, not some are evolved

and some aren't...

>
> Cause if there are two "breeds of them, what happens to

the "primitive" orangutans from the time that they're taken out of the
cage and brought into Ape Management for processing? They sure lose
the "primitive look" rather quickly don't they? How can you unflub that?

*** I think you provide the answer for both of your paragraphs.

The cage Caesar hides in, infiltrating that shipment of orangutans from
Indonesia, holds truly "primitive" orangutans -- apes who do not have
the "evolved" genome that would enable them to THINK intelligently, let
alone SPEAK with human-like vocalizations.

In the APE MANAGEMENT complex, the orangutans we see there are NOT
these same sorts of "non-evolved" primitive apes. The "primitive" types
(or, most of 'em, at any rate) are probably in other cages awaiting
Conditioning.

They went out of their way to do full-body makeups for those primitive
orangutans in that shipment. Why? Why not just make up those orangutan
faces so that they look like Zaius & Honorius?

The orangutan in the bookshop scene certainly doesn't look like those
Indonesia apes. Why not?

I think it's because SOME of the apes brought from overseas are indeed
the non-evolved, primitive types (like the ones in that cage Caesar
hides in). And OTHERS are the evolved apes. The result of purposeful
transgenics and hybridization. The humans who enslaved them may not
have seen much of a difference, but that would be because the Apes had
learned -- been warned -- not to reveal their ability to Talk. The
orangutans in that Indonesia cage -- who make 'primitive' ape noises
when Caesar sneaks inside their cage -- had no reason to 'pretend' to
be mere animals. Yet they did show Caesar that that's all they were.
They -- unlike Mandemus and Virgil and that bookstore orangutan --
were "primitive" apes.

Perhaps that bunch had to be kept in a holding pen elsewhere in the APE
MANAGEMENT complex, since those primitive apes weren't as susceptible
to Conditioning as were the evolved apes.

Patrick

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the PotaDG
group.

File : /Within the Planet of the Apes/WPOTA 68.gif
Uploaded by : munkeyman63au <nfoster@...>
Description :

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/files/Within%20the%20Planet%20of%20the%20Apes/WPOTA%2068.gif

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
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Regards,

munkeyman63au <nfoster@...>

Attachments :

.html <.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "John" <DrZaiusDavis@a...> wrote:

> YOU BLASPHEAMER!!!! The most important thing about Planet of the

Apes are the APES! Tred lightly my friend. I'm not sure I wanna go
along with you on this ride.

-- Aww come on, somewhere in the universe there must be something
better than apes! ;-)

Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , LordTZer0@A... wrote:

> Well I don't really know how to explain it without
> taking quotes from the other group, which Neil
> has said is a no no.

-- Actually it is James' rule that threads can not be exported /
imported from one group to another, I was just respecting his wishes.

> But basically he's asking
> if I can cite evidence that states there
> are two timeline, other than the 500
> year timeframe. What the hell, Man?

-- Well really what do any of you expect? It is always the same
argument everytime the timelines debate rears it's ugly head - 'show
me where it is said in the movies that there is more than one
timeline'.
He did it last time, also the time before that, the time before
that, the time before that, the time before that etc.

I know one thing for sure though, the 'timeline debate' is a
repeating loop, it just keeps on happening the same over and over
and over and over and...

Neil ;-)

Neil wrote:

>--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "John" <DrZaiusDavis@a...> wrote:
>
>
>>YOU BLASPHEAMER!!!! The most important thing about Planet of the
>>
>>
>Apes are the APES! Tred lightly my friend. I'm not sure I wanna go
>along with you on this ride.
>
>-- Aww come on, somewhere in the universe there must be something
>better than apes! ;-)
>
>Neil
>
>
>
>
>
>

Hey, my wife is more important than apes, my kid is more important than
apes. Hey my whole family is more important than apes, well maybe not my
mother in law, but then she looks like an ape.

RedAce^

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Whitty, Michael" <Michael.Whitty@d...>
wrote:

> There will also be more countries involved, not just the USA!
> And all races, not just caucasians!

-- Cool, I can feel a POTA / Mad Max crossover coming on!!

Neil

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Neil
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 10:42 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: TV Show Comic GOING HOME

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> Well I don't really know how to explain it without
> taking quotes from the other group, which Neil
> has said is a no no.

-- Actually it is James' rule that threads can not be exported /
imported from one group to another, I was just respecting his wishes.

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Rodney
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 10:46 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: TV Show Comic GOING HOME

Neil wrote:

>--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "John" <DrZaiusDavis@a...> wrote:
> 
>
>>YOU BLASPHEAMER!!!! The most important thing about Planet of the
>>   
>>
>Apes are the APES! Tred lightly my friend. I'm not sure I wanna go
>along with you on this ride.
>
>-- Aww come on, somewhere in the universe there must be something
>better than apes! ;-)
>
>Neil
>
>
>
>
> 
>
Hey, my wife is more important than apes, my kid is more important than
apes. Hey my whole family is more important than apes, well maybe not my
mother in law, but then she looks like an ape.

RedAce^

.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> Well I don't really know how to explain it without
> taking quotes from the other group, which Neil
> has said is a no no.

-- Actually it is James' rule that threads can not be exported /
imported from one group to another, I was just respecting his wishes.

> But basically he's asking
> if I can cite evidence that states there
> are two timeline, other than the 500
> year timeframe.  What the hell, Man?

-- Well really what do any of you expect? It is always the same
argument everytime the timelines debate rears it's ugly head - 'show
me where it is said in the movies that there is more than one
timeline'.
He did it last time, also the time before that, the time before
that, the time before that, the time before that etc.

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Neil
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 10:42 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: TV Show Comic GOING HOME

-- Well really what do any of you expect? It is always the same
argument everytime the timelines debate rears it's ugly head - 'show
me where it is said in the movies that there is more than one
timeline'.
He did it last time, also the time before that, the time before
that, the time before that, the time before that etc.

<.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Whitty, Michael" <Michael.Whitty@d...>
wrote:

> Oh dear - you know, he could boot you from the group now because you
> discussed something hapening on that group!

-- I was just replying to one of our members actually. Besides he's
not a member of this group so he wouldn't even know that his name had
been mentioned plus I only 'lurk' over there and then very
occasionally as it usually just numbs my brain when I do.

Neil

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Neil
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 11:00 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Rules

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Whitty, Michael" <Michael.Whitty@d...>
wrote:
> Oh dear - you know, he could boot you from the group now because you
> discussed something hapening on that group!

-- I was just replying to one of our members actually. Besides he's
not a member of this group so he wouldn't even know that his name had
been mentioned plus I only 'lurk' over there and then very
occasionally as it usually just numbs my brain when I do.

Neil

<.html

It was an apparent computer problem that he "fixed" after I started
running my mouth about being booted. I know its hard to believe that
I'd be one to start trouble or be talking smack but sometimes I can't
control myself. :D




--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Whitty, Michael"
<Michael.Whitty@d...> wrote:

>
> Well, every time something happens here he "finds out" - y'know, a

concerned

> party emails him! :)
>
> Didn't he boot you and Dr Zaius Davis recentlt for no apparent

reason?

>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On

Behalf Of

> Neil
> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 11:00 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Rules
>
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Whitty, Michael"

<Michael.Whitty@d...>

> wrote:
> > Oh dear - you know, he could boot you from the group now because

you

> > discussed something hapening on that group!
>
> -- I was just replying to one of our members actually. Besides he's
> not a member of this group so he wouldn't even know that his name

had

> been mentioned plus I only 'lurk' over there and then very
> occasionally as it usually just numbs my brain when I do.
>
> Neil
>
>
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Whitty, Michael"
<Michael.Whitty@d...> wrote:

>
> Well, every time something happens here he "finds out" - y'know, a

concerned

> party emails him! :)
>

Alright. I admit it. I am the mole sent here to create havoc in your
group and me and James sit back and giggle like a couple of school
girls as you try to maintain order. We are the People's Front of
Judium and we are "SPLITTERS!" Now P*ss OFF!

> Didn't he boot you and Dr Zaius Davis recentlt for no apparent

reason?

>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On

Behalf Of

> Neil
> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 11:00 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Rules
>
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Whitty, Michael"

<Michael.Whitty@d...>

> wrote:
> > Oh dear - you know, he could boot you from the group now because

you

> > discussed something hapening on that group!
>
> -- I was just replying to one of our members actually. Besides he's
> not a member of this group so he wouldn't even know that his name

had

> been mentioned plus I only 'lurk' over there and then very
> occasionally as it usually just numbs my brain when I do.
>
> Neil
>
>
>

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: mlccougar@...

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 9:31 PM

Subject: Re: [PotaDG] OT: "Kong" no longer king

In a message dated 1/8/2006 10:42:16 PM Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

This weekend "King Kong" dropped to # 3 at the North American box office, behind the new horror movie "Hostel" (# 1 with $20 million) and "Narnia" (# 2 with $15 million). "Kong" made $12 mil. So much for those of us who thought Kong would be the Great Ape Hope and greenlight all those ape movies in the wings.

What is it's gross so far in the U.S.?

And, I didn't at all expect it to "greenlight" any simian themed films, but I sure as hell hoped it would sink that damned "Titanic"...

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of veetus@...
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 10:27 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] OT: "Kong" no longer king

  "Kong" has made $197 million in the U.S. It will probably have earned it's $207 million budget back in the U.S. by next weekend. "Narnia" came out a week earlier and has made $247 in the U.S. So between "Harry Potter" and "Narnia", "Kong" is a distant 3rd for the end of the year. For whatever reason people really weren't all that interested in "Kong". 

  And yes, if "Kong" had been a smash I think that would've tipped the scale in favor of an "Apes 2". POTA2001 made more worldwide than "Fantastic Four" and Fox is doing an F42 (though they contractually have an obligation to Marvel to continue if they want to keep the property). But so what, if there's an "Apes 2" Fox will make it and it'll be garbage. - - - Jeff

<.html

.html Does anyone have any theories on what happened in POTA 2001. If you know the Batman movies and saw how they turned to garbage then apes can be saved. I had no interest in seeing Batman Begins and I'm a huge Batman fan. Having said that I got it for Christmas and it's must see. Best of them all hands down. Now back to what I was saying about apes 2001. My though was when the space station was at the center of the storm and they got the signals from earth of all time, maybe history was being erased and instead of man rising so to speak maybe the apes rose? I have no other way to explain it? I have no idea what the point was to being on another planet? I saw an interview with Tim Burton before it came out and he said the end was a shocker that he came up with. Did he read the book? It ends almost in the same fashion. I do think it can be saved. Does anyone know if they are going to do a sequel?<.html

.html.htmlPatrick,

Two things:

First of all, if you're so absolutely sure that Dehn meant it that the Apes-timeline is circular, with NO CHANCE of the future being altered in ANY WAY, then why would he have TWO of his characters (Hasslein in ESCAPE, and Virgil in BATTLE) say approximately the same thing: That by "switching lanes, you can change the future?"
Surely by having it stated in two of his scripts, he MUST have at least SOME HOPE that the future can be altered? (And remember, it's also been stated that the ending of BATTLE is ambiguous, and that the crying Caesar MAY mean that in the future apes and humans "might" co-exist peacefully... Of course, I know you WILL say that is absolutely WRONG, because it just doesn't jibe with your sceanario...)

Second of all, you're so hung up on thinking that Cornelius is lying, and all that he said is false in ESCAPE... Let's put something from ESCAPE into your own scenario... You're of the opinion that there are "two types of apes", both primitive and "intelligent" (but the intelligent ones hide the fact that they are.) Now let's go to the line that Cornelius says in ESCAPE, that "It's (English) been the language of my ancestors for nearly two thousand years..." Now if there are two types of apes, and "intelligent ones" existed at least as far back as the 1940's (in your own words, you say that Mandemus from BATTLE was born back then,) then how come English couldn't be the language of Cornelius' ancestors? Maybe English was the "hidden language" of these "hidden intelligence" apes born in the 1940's? This is your own argument, that there were smart apes back then, and you also say that apes from the BATTLE era are of those apes, so then how can Cornelius be incorrect about something that you yourself say?<.html<.html

.html.html You did NOT answer the question I asked you:

You said that there are both "intelligent" and "primitive" apes in CONQUEST... You point to the showing of "primitive" orangutans that Caesar infiltrated as evidence of this... I say that this was B.S. and it was just sloppiness on their part, because as you'll notice if you watch the movie, they are "primitive" when in the cage with Caesar, but as soon as their shipment is being processed, you'll see what are suppose to be those same orangutans suddenly having the "evolved" apes look...

I am asking you, if there are supposed to be "two types" of apes, then how can their look go from "primitive" in the cage with Caesar, yet "evolved" when they and Caesar are being processed?






In a message dated 1/9/2006 4:09:27 PM Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

>Cause if there are two "breeds of them, what happens to
the "primitive" orangutans from the time that they're taken out of the
cage and brought into Ape Management for processing? They sure lose
the "primitive look" rather quickly don't they? How can you unflub that?

*** I think you provide the answer for both of your paragraphs.

The cage Caesar hides in, infiltrating that shipment of orangutans from
Indonesia, holds truly "primitive" orangutans -- apes who do not have
the "evolved" genome that would enable them to THINK intelligently, let
alone SPEAK with human-like vocalizations.

In the APE MANAGEMENT complex, the orangutans we see there are NOT
these same sorts of "non-evolved" primitive apes. The "primitive" types
(or, most of 'em, at any rate) are probably in other cages awaiting
Conditioning.

<.html<.html

.html

In a message dated 1/9/2006 5:48:39 P.M. Central Standard Time, nfoster@... writes:

-- Cool, I can feel a POTA / Mad Max crossover coming on!!

Neil

 

I still need the car.

<.html

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In a message dated 1/9/2006 6:09:51 P.M. Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

Well, every time something happens here he "finds out" - y'know, a concerned party emails him!  :)

 

Well, it turns out I misread the email.

It seemed worse than it was.  But still.

 

<.html

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In a message dated 1/9/2006 11:34:15 P.M. Central Standard Time, tshaf37@... writes:

I had no interest in seeing Batman Begins and I'm a huge Batman fan.

 

Why?  That was the best one!

I stopped going to them after the

turd, I mean third one.  But this

has them all beat.  Best movie I

saw all summer.

 

 

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In a message dated 1/9/2006 11:34:15 P.M. Central Standard Time, tshaf37@... writes:

Having said that I got it for Christmas and it's must see. Best of them all hands down

See! 

I was right!  : )

 

<.html

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In a message dated 1/10/2006 12:17:01 A.M. Central Standard Time, mlccougar@... writes:

I am asking you, if there are supposed to be "two types" of apes, then how can their look go from "primitive" in the cage with Caesar, yet "evolved" when they and Caesar are being processed?

 

Who?  Me.

I can answer that.

They have magic jumpsuits.

No wait!

They put them in a machine

and alter their DNA . . . or

is it the bananas they eat?

Nope, just sloppy film making.

 

 

<.html

.html

 

IT's unlikely the studio is going to let Butron

go back and fix that debacle.  I'm not saying

it couldn't be done.  Certainly it would be more

interesting than the first one.  I just don't think

he's going to be given the chance.  Can you

blame them?  No one likes throwing good

money after bad.  If it was my call, and it

had to be a sequel to his, I'd get someone

else to direct it.  The trouble is everyone

else said they'd only do it for him. Fine.

Then I'd recast the whole thing.  You

don't really need anyone except Leo. 

And he needs recasting the most.

 

<.html

LordTZer0@... wrote:

> In a message dated 1/9/2006 11:34:15 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> tshaf37@... writes:
>
> I had no interest in seeing Batman Begins and I'm a huge Batman fan.
>
>
> Why? That was the best one!
> I stopped going to them after the
> turd, I mean third one. But this
> has them all beat. Best movie I
> saw all summer.
>
>
> Batman Begins redefined the whole Batman in the movies experience. It
> was a phenominal film. I am hopeing, and fairly certain here, that
> there will be a sequal that holds to the same quality as Batman Begins.

RedAce^

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , mlccougar@a... wrote:

> if you're so absolutely sure that Dehn meant it that the Apes-

timeline is circular, with NO CHANCE of the future being altered in
ANY WAY, then why would he have TWO of his characters (Hasslein in
ESCAPE, and Virgil in BATTLE) say approximately the same thing: That
by "switching lanes, you can change the future?"

-- Maybe because that is what they hoped could be achieved which
doesn't therefore mean that things can be changed though. If Hasslein
didn't believe he could alter the future there would be no need for
him to try, same with Caesar and there go your storylines.

And maybe by having these characters believe they can change the
future Dehn was just showing how hopeless and impossible it really is?

Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , mlccougar@a... wrote:

>
> You did NOT answer the question I asked you:
>
> You said that there are both "intelligent" and "primitive" apes in

CONQUEST... You point to the showing of "primitive" orangutans that
Caesar infiltrated as evidence of this... I say that this was B.S.
and it was just sloppiness on their part, because as you'll notice if
you watch the movie, they are "primitive" when in the cage with
Caesar, but as soon as their shipment is being processed, you'll see
what are suppose to be those same orangutans suddenly having
the "evolved" apes look...

>
> I am asking you, if there are supposed to be "two types" of apes,

then how can their look go from "primitive" in the cage with Caesar,
yet "evolved" when they and Caesar are being processed?

.html.html In a message dated 1/10/2006 2:40:25 AM Central Standard Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

Nope, just sloppy film making.

Damn right, sloppy film making at it's finest...

Nothing to "unflub", no alien enhanced apes, just thoughtless costuming...<.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 1/10/2006 9:34:50 AM Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

Even if I were to conclude that the more 'evolved'-looking orangutans in the
later fingerprinting scene WERE the same apes as the 'primitive' ones
in the earlier cage scene, it wouldn't bother me. Maybe they got a
haircut when they were being de-loused and check-upped!

I'm not saying it bothers me (well, it does in the sense that it was thoughtless and crappy film-making/costuming)... I'm just saying that you as well as I KNOW that these orangutans seen when Caesar is being processed are the SAME ones that he was with in the cage on the truck... But, yet, you seem to think otherwise...

<.html <.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , mlccougar@a... wrote:

>
> Patrick,
>
> Two things:
>
> First of all, if you're so absolutely sure that Dehn meant it that

the Apes-timeline is circular, with NO CHANCE of the future being
altered in ANY WAY, then why would he have TWO of his characters
(Hasslein in ESCAPE, and Virgil in BATTLE) say approximately the same
thing: That by "switching lanes, you can change the future?"
-----------------------------------------------------------------
*** They say -- and this is merely BELIEF on their part, since there
is no evidence that anybody else had ever actually altered a known
Future timeline before -- that the Future CAN be changed. That it is
POSSIBLE. Certainly, that it is DESIRABLE, and PREFERABLE to the
bleak Future that the Ape-onauts described.

In "ESCAPE" it is Hasslein who voices the BELIEF that his actions CAN
change the Future, though he wrestles with whether or not he SHOULD
do so. But it could easily be argued that everything he does not only
does NOT change the Future, but instead ADDS to the fulfilling of
that Future.

Think about it: Even after the Ape-onauts had revealed that Man would
be a hunted animal in 2,000 years' time, Mankind still takes Apes in
as replacement pets (after the Plague) and then ENSLAVES them. By
doing so, Man has given the Apes all the moral ammunition they need
to make a harsh judgment of Man's inhumanity. Caesar tells MacDonald
that Man won't be kind unless he is FORCED to be. Nothing Hasslein
did in 1973... nothing any other human has done prior to the Ape
Revolt in 1991... nothing any man has done has prevented the Ape
Revolt, or prevented the nuclear war that will ultimately wipe out
Man's civilization.

Hasslein had as much luck wiping out the 'threat' posed by Zira and
Cornelius AND their unborn baby as Herod had, when he tried to kill
the Christ child (see chapter 2 of Matthew's Gospel) -- as the
President hinted to Hasslein HE would be emulating. "Herod tried
that, yet Christ survived."

"Mister President, Herod lacked our facilities."

Hah! According to MATTHEW, Christ was saved because it was God's will
that His own divinely-begotten Son fulfill his mission, to be the
sacrificed Lamb of God, etc etc. If Herod had had the 20th Century
facilities to deal with the threat posed to his rule in Judea by
this 'Messiah', then the God of the Bible would've just whipped out a
miracle to foil Herod's dastardly plan. You ever see "FRAILTY", where
the power of God messes up the surveillance tape that showed the face
of the "serial killer" played by Matthew McConnoughey? [Note: yes,
I've probably mis-spelled his name, but gimme a break! It's a hard
name to remember how to spell!]

Regardless of what Hasslein believes and hopes for in "ESCAPE", in
that same film we have Armando to represent the YANG to Hasslein's
YIN -- who says: "I hate those who would alter DESTINY, which is the
unalterable Will of God!"

In "ESCAPE", there are these TWO opposing notions. Hasslein's belief,
that the Future can be changed by deliberate Action. And Armando's
belief that God has set the Future in stone, with a Plan that nobody
can alter no matter how hard they try. Armando purposely acts to help
fulfill what he believes to be the Will of God: he believes that it
is Man's Destiny to be dominated by the Apes, because he knows that
Cornelius and Zira came from THE Future, not from merely "a" Future.
For a Catholic (and Armando IS a Catholic) who believes in the
doctrine of Predestination, it is a given that there can be ONLY one
Future -- the Future that God has Willed for Man (and Ape).

And the final image of "ESCAPE" is of Baby Milo with that medallion
of St. Francis of Assisi, crying "Ma-ma! Ma-ma! MA-MA!"

As for Virgil, isn't it odd that he seems to have quoted Hasslein
virtually verbatim? The SAME analogy Hasslein made, on that TV news
interview with Bill Bonds, about Time being like a freeway with an
infinite number of lanes... Virgil makes the EXACT same analogy.
Might that not suggest that Virgil -- at some point in his earlier
life -- had seen a RE-BROADCAST of that TV interview? Say, in a TV
documentary shown on TV in 1990 or so, months before the Revolt?
Imagine Virgil having arrived at Breck's city in early 1990 or so...
being processed by the Immigration section of APE MANAGEMENT... being
subjected to the Conditioning Area... being sold at Auction to some
jerk human who doesn't want to make his own damn bed. What if that
guy had been watching TV one night, unaware that his orangutan slave
was also watching it and understanding every word of it -- fascinated
about the scientific concept of Changing the Future.

In "BATTLE", before Teacher's faux pas regarding the First Law, we
see Virgil chatting with some students of his, telling them about a
hypothetical musician who changes Time. This is from the "BATTLE"
screenplay, scene 10:

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , mlccougar@a... wrote:

>
> In a message dated 1/10/2006 9:34:50 AM Central Standard Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
> > Even if I were to conclude that the more 'evolved'-looking

orangutans in the later fingerprinting scene WERE the same apes as
the 'primitive' ones in the earlier cage scene, it wouldn't bother
me. Maybe they got a haircut when they were being de-loused and check-
upped!

>
> I'm not saying it bothers me (well, it does in the sense that it

was thoughtless and crappy film-making/costuming)... I'm just saying
that you as well as I KNOW that these orangutans seen when Caesar is
being processed are the SAME ones that he was with in the cage on the
truck... But, yet, you seem to think otherwise...

.html.html In a message dated 1/9/06 11:16:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

But so what, if there's an "Apes 2" Fox will make it and it'll be garbage. - - - Jeff

Be positive, think 40th.

-- Rory<.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 1/10/06 12:55:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, mlccougar@... writes:

First of all, if you're so absolutely sure that Dehn meant it that the Apes-timeline is circular, with NO CHANCE of the future being altered in ANY WAY, then why would he have TWO of his characters (Hasslein in ESCAPE, and Virgil in BATTLE) say approximately the same thing: That by "switching lanes, you can change the future?"
Surely by having it stated in two of his scripts, he MUST have at least SOME HOPE that the future can be altered?

Yeah, answer that, Patrick!  You big know-it-all!!!

-- Rory<.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 1/10/06 7:54:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, nfoster@... writes:

And maybe by having these characters believe they can change the
future Dehn was just showing how hopeless and impossible it really is?

Neil

E= Mc2

Dehn = Downer

-- Rory<.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 1/10/06 12:53:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

I really don't see a problem here. It's easily unflubbable, if it is
even the 'flub' you think it is. I don't think it's all that much of
a flub in the first place; but, even so, it is easily rectified.

Patrick

Did you say "rectified," Patrick.  Yeah, I'll agree with that.  Being into unflubbing the flubs of POTA the way you are is sure "rectal" to me!

-- Rory<.html <.html

mlccougar@... wrote:

> Subject: Questions for Patrick....
>
> then why would he have TWO of his characters

(Hasslein in ESCAPE, and Virgil in

> BATTLE) say approximately the same thing: That

by "switching lanes, you can

> change the future?"
> Surely by having it stated in two of his

scripts, he MUST have at least SOME

> HOPE that the future can be altered?

Well I ain't Patrick (as you can tell from the
word count), but I thought I'd throw in an answer
to this one anyway. The reason for both of these
characters believing that they can alter the
future is not because Dehn believes so but because
the characters do, and the reason this is done is
for character motivation, which in turn moves the
plot along.

For example, if Hasslein believes that the future
is set in stone and cannot be changed, he'd have
no reason to kill the chimps and ESCAPE would only
be an hour long.

Similarly, you've got to wonder what Caesar would
bother doing if Virgil decided to try and convince
him that "there is no way to change the future so
tough luck, we're going to die".

I've also wondered on previous occasions if maybe
Virgil saying that was supposed to draw some kind
of parallel between him and Hasslein, like two
sides of the same coin. Both geniuses who share
the same view of time, but one determined to do
evil while the other sees it as an opportunity for
salvation. Or maybe I've gone all Eric Greene and
read too much into it again.

And yes, I've only just realised that Neil already
said just about the same thing, but damn it, I've
typed this thing so I'm going to damn well send
it!

Alan

Ditto.

Think we need a "PLANET OF THE APES BEGINS"?

Michael

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 1/9/2006 11:34:15 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> tshaf37@a... writes:
>
> I had no interest in seeing Batman Begins and I'm a huge Batman
fan.
>
>
>
> Why? That was the best one!
> I stopped going to them after the
> turd, I mean third one. But this
> has them all beat. Best movie I
> saw all summer.
>

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of patrickmichaeltilton
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 4:29 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Questions for Patrick.... And Answers for Cougar...

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, mlccougar@a... wrote:
>
> Patrick,
>
> Two things:
>
> First of all, if you're so absolutely sure that Dehn meant it that
the Apes-timeline is circular, with NO CHANCE of the future being
altered in ANY WAY, then why would he have TWO of his characters
(Hasslein in ESCAPE, and Virgil in BATTLE) say approximately the same
thing: That by "switching lanes, you can change the future?"
-----------------------------------------------------------------
*** They say -- and this is merely BELIEF on their part, since there
is no evidence that anybody else had ever actually altered a known
Future timeline before -- that the Future CAN be changed. That it is
POSSIBLE. Certainly, that it is DESIRABLE, and PREFERABLE to the
bleak Future that the Ape-onauts described.

In "ESCAPE" it is Hasslein who voices the BELIEF that his actions CAN
change the Future, though he wrestles with whether or not he SHOULD
do so. But it could easily be argued that everything he does not only
does NOT change the Future, but instead ADDS to the fulfilling of
that Future.

Think about it: Even after the Ape-onauts had revealed that Man would
be a hunted animal in 2,000 years' time, Mankind still takes Apes in
as replacement pets (after the Plague) and then ENSLAVES them. By
doing so, Man has given the Apes all the moral ammunition they need
to make a harsh judgment of Man's inhumanity. Caesar tells MacDonald
that Man won't be kind unless he is FORCED to be. Nothing Hasslein
did in 1973... nothing any other human has done prior to the Ape
Revolt in 1991... nothing any man has done has prevented the Ape
Revolt, or prevented the nuclear war that will ultimately wipe out
Man's civilization.

Hasslein had as much luck wiping out the 'threat' posed by Zira and
Cornelius AND their unborn baby as Herod had, when he tried to kill
the Christ child (see chapter 2 of Matthew's Gospel) -- as the
President hinted to Hasslein HE would be emulating. "Herod tried
that, yet Christ survived."

"Mister President, Herod lacked our facilities."

Hah! According to MATTHEW, Christ was saved because it was God's will
that His own divinely-begotten Son fulfill his mission, to be the
sacrificed Lamb of God, etc etc. If Herod had had the 20th Century
facilities to deal with the threat posed to his rule in Judea by
this 'Messiah', then the God of the Bible would've just whipped out a
miracle to foil Herod's dastardly plan. You ever see "FRAILTY", where
the power of God messes up the surveillance tape that showed the face
of the "serial killer" played by Matthew McConnoughey? [Note: yes,
I've probably mis-spelled his name, but gimme a break! It's a hard
name to remember how to spell!]

Regardless of what Hasslein believes and hopes for in "ESCAPE", in
that same film we have Armando to represent the YANG to Hasslein's
YIN -- who says: "I hate those who would alter DESTINY, which is the
unalterable Will of God!"

In "ESCAPE", there are these TWO opposing notions. Hasslein's belief,
that the Future can be changed by deliberate Action. And Armando's
belief that God has set the Future in stone, with a Plan that nobody
can alter no matter how hard they try. Armando purposely acts to help
fulfill what he believes to be the Will of God: he believes that it
is Man's Destiny to be dominated by the Apes, because he knows that
Cornelius and Zira came from THE Future, not from merely "a" Future.
For a Catholic (and Armando IS a Catholic) who believes in the
doctrine of Predestination, it is a given that there can be ONLY one
Future -- the Future that God has Willed for Man (and Ape).

And the final image of "ESCAPE" is of Baby Milo with that medallion
of St. Francis of Assisi, crying "Ma-ma! Ma-ma! MA-MA!"

As for Virgil, isn't it odd that he seems to have quoted Hasslein
virtually verbatim? The SAME analogy Hasslein made, on that TV news
interview with Bill Bonds, about Time being like a freeway with an
infinite number of lanes... Virgil makes the EXACT same analogy.
Might that not suggest that Virgil -- at some point in his earlier
life -- had seen a RE-BROADCAST of that TV interview? Say, in a TV
documentary shown on TV in 1990 or so, months before the Revolt?
Imagine Virgil having arrived at Breck's city in early 1990 or so...
being processed by the Immigration section of APE MANAGEMENT... being
subjected to the Conditioning Area... being sold at Auction to some
jerk human who doesn't want to make his own damn bed. What if that
guy had been watching TV one night, unaware that his orangutan slave
was also watching it and understanding every word of it -- fascinated
about the scientific concept of Changing the Future.

In "BATTLE", before Teacher's faux pas regarding the First Law, we
see Virgil chatting with some students of his, telling them about a
hypothetical musician who changes Time. This is from the "BATTLE"
screenplay, scene 10:
10b      etc]

It's "ESCAPE" script:
NAVAL soldier?"

Why is

They

.html Love it, Neil. I want that robot or artificial intelligence. I still think he can clean my house, mow my lawn and do my income taxes. Elaine<.html

.html

  "Kong" has made $197 million in the U.S. It will probably have earned it's $207 million budget back in the U.S. by next weekend. "Narnia" came out a week earlier and has made $247 in the U.S. So between "Harry Potter" and "Narnia", "Kong" is a distant 3rd for the end of the year. For whatever reason people really weren't all that interested in "Kong". 

  And yes, if "Kong" had been a smash I think that would've tipped the scale in favor of an "Apes 2". POTA2001 made more worldwide than "Fantastic Four" and Fox is doing an F42 (though they contractually have an obligation to Marvel to continue if they want to keep the property). But so what, if there's an "Apes 2" Fox will make it and it'll be garbage. - - - Jeff

 

 

I don't get the connection between pota and King Kong. They are very different movies. Elaine

<.html

.html <.html

.html

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of taebokitti@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 10:38 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] OT: "Kong" no longer king

In a message dated 1/9/2006 8:16:35 PM Pacific Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

  "Kong" has made $197 million in the U.S. It will probably have earned it's $207 million budget back in the U.S. by next weekend. "Narnia" came out a week earlier and has made $247 in the U.S. So between "Harry Potter" and "Narnia", "Kong" is a distant 3rd for the end of the year. For whatever reason people really weren't all that interested in "Kong". 

  And yes, if "Kong" had been a smash I think that would've tipped the scale in favor of an "Apes 2". POTA2001 made more worldwide than "Fantastic Four" and Fox is doing an F42 (though they contractually have an obligation to Marvel to continue if they want to keep the property). But so what, if there's an "Apes 2" Fox will make it and it'll be garbage. - - - Jeff

 

 

I don't get the connection between pota and King Kong. They are very different movies. Elaine

 

<.html

.html <.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of taebokitti@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 10:40 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] OT: "Kong" no longer king

In a message dated 1/9/2006 9:34:15 PM Pacific Standard Time, tshaf37@... writes:

Does anyone have any theories on what happened in POTA 2001. If you know the Batman movies and saw how they turned to garbage then apes can be saved. I had no interest in seeing Batman Begins and I'm a huge Batman fan. Having said that I got it for Christmas and it's must see. Best of them all hands down. Now back to what I was saying about apes 2001. My though was when the space station was at the center of the storm and they got the signals from earth of all time, maybe history was being erased and instead of man rising so to speak maybe the apes rose? I have no other way to explain it? I have no idea what the point was to being on another planet? I saw an interview with Tim Burton before it came out and he said the end was a shocker that he came up with. Did he read the book? It ends almost in the same fashion. I do think it can be saved. Does anyone know if they are going to do a sequel?

SPONSORED LINKS

• I read somewhere on the internet about a year ago, that another sequel was going to be made but haven't heard anything since. Elaine

<.html

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