Please distribute this to everyone you know (on earth, that is):

When John Glenn returns from space, everybody dress in Ape Suits.

You have 7 days in which to bury the Statue of Liberty up to her chest.


- Armando (trick that hero!)


sorry for the brief reply, we are in nyc . . . and i gotta run

_____________

Hello-

This is my first post. I've poked around and read some of the posts,
and it seems I've found a group of Apephiles as hardcore as myself.

I noticed a thread about missing scenes from BATTLE. Not sure if it's
been cleared up definitively here, but on the Japanese laserdisc, Battle
is some ten minutes longer than the US version, and it does indeed
contain a whole subplot about Kolp instructing Alma (the Asian woman) to
point the Alpha Omega bomb at Ape City and blow the hell out of them
should he fail to achieve victory. When he is killed, she sets out to
set off the bomb, but is talked out of it by Mendez, who gives a speech
about revering the bomb, because "one of it's ancestors made us what we
are, and what we are from this day forward shall be called 'beautiful'."

The other stuff about the Gesalt mind and transnational tubes comes from
a timeline published in the comics in the 70's, and is, I believe, not
really a definitive answer. Keep in mind, though, that they never refer
to the city in CONQUEST and BATTLE as being anywhere but "North
America".

I look forward to some good ape discussion!

Phil
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Why don't you believe the comic book timeline? The things in there seem to
match up well with all the things in the movies.

Chris
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BlakerG@... wrote:

>
> Why don't you believe the comic book timeline? The things in there seem to
> match up well with all the things in the movies.

It's an attempt, and it's fun to read, but like most sci-fi series (Star
Trek, Star Wars, etc.), I don't think that anything other than what's
been actually filmed must be taken as canon. Then again, I don't really
accept the TV series as crucial to the timeline. Imagine for a moment
that they decided to film a sixth installment. The only obligation
would be to adhere to what had happened in the films.

Just my opinion-

Phil
__________

<snip>>set off the bomb, but is talked out of it by Mendez, who gives a speech

>about revering the bomb, because "one of it's ancestors made us what we
>are, and what we are from this day forward shall be called 'beautiful'."

I remember that part from the 80's version of the movie that i have. I
haven't gotten that far into the wide-screen re-release, but I suspect that
it is still in there . . .

<snip>Keep in mind, though, that they never refer

>to the city in CONQUEST and BATTLE as being anywhere but "North
>America".

However, the scenes in ESCAPE obviously take place in Los Angeles. Then
they are brought to a research facility that is most likely in the hills of
Orange County . . . and the final scene takes place in the port of Los
Angeles, which is in Long Beach. This would mean that Armando's circus was
located somewhere in orange county (probably irvine, as that is between
those two points and still has large grassy areas where a circus could
pitch their tents).

Now, you could argue that this does NOT mean that he was still in the
Orange County area when Ceasar grew up . . . unfortunately I don't have my
books with me at the moment, where i could find supporting data for this
tangent . . . but the descriptions of where the central city was, in
relation to the ape processing area (at the port) still fits the
geographical description of Los Angeles. It certainly did NOT in any way
resemble manhattan -- where there are no large open areas -- and the
tubeway to the water from the city would have been much shorter.

It would seem that the Ape City in the first film was located in Newark, NJ
. . . based upon the direction of travel towards the statue of liberty.

- Armando (keeper of the holy maps!)


sorry for the brief reply, we are in philly . . . and i gotta run

_____________

>BlakerG@... wrote:
>>
>> Why don't you believe the comic book timeline? The things in there seem to
>> match up well with all the things in the movies.
>
>It's an attempt, and it's fun to read, but like most sci-fi series (Star
>Trek, Star Wars, etc.), I don't think that anything other than what's
>been actually filmed must be taken as canon. Then again, I don't really
>accept the TV series as crucial to the timeline. Imagine for a moment
>that they decided to film a sixth installment. The only obligation
>would be to adhere to what had happened in the films.
>
>Just my opinion-
>
>Phil

In the novel that I am starting to write, I begin the story AFTER the first
movie but before the 2nd one. I think there is a lot more that could happen
BEFORE the world explodes, that would make the story more interesting.
Granted, one MUST make up new events for the story, but I agree that one
must "adhere to what had happened in the films".

If you haven't done so, recently, you MUST reread the original novel. There
are great things in there, that don't help 'explain' the films, but are
great background material.

I agree that the TV show, comic books + cartoons can NOT be taken
seriously, in so far as trying to resolve the story line / time line. they
each have to be taken on their own . . . and in a way, taken as heresy to
the truths within the movies.


- Armando (keeper of truths and dolls that say "maaaa-ma")


sorry for the brief reply, we are in philly . . . and i gotta run

_____________

I've noticed two inconsistancies between PoA and Beneath, in regards to the
relationship between Cornelius/Zira and Zaius:

1. Why is it that Zaius (in Beneath) says to Cornelius and Zira "are you so
blind, you two pscyhologists?" (in the scene in their house, as Brent and
Nova hide), when we know that Cornelius was an Archeologist?

2. At the end of PoA, Zaius say he is gonna try the two of them for heresy;
yet in Beneath he is their buddy, and makes them "guardians of science"
when he heads to the forbidden zone -- and then says if he doesn't return,
the future of the ape civilization will be in their hands?

What changed that crazy Orang's mind?


- Armando


sorry for the brief reply, we are in philly . . . and i gotta run

_____________

I'm not trying to be argumentative, so please read my posts as they were
written - good natured debate. It's fun to throw ideas around about
this stuff-

sam rosenthal wrote:

>
> <snip>>set off the bomb, but is talked out of it by Mendez, who gives a speech
> >about revering the bomb, because "one of it's ancestors made us what we
> >are, and what we are from this day forward shall be called 'beautiful'."
>
> I remember that part from the 80's version of the movie that i have. I
> haven't gotten that far into the wide-screen re-release, but I suspect that
> it is still in there . . .

It's not. The newly released box set contains the same version as the
old tapes. The extra scenes, to my knowledge, are only available on teh
Japanese laserdisc from a few years ago.

>
> <snip>Keep in mind, though, that they never refer
> >to the city in CONQUEST and BATTLE as being anywhere but "North
> >America".
>
> However, the scenes in ESCAPE obviously take place in Los Angeles. Then
> they are brought to a research facility that is most likely in the hills of
> Orange County . . . and the final scene takes place in the port of Los
> Angeles, which is in Long Beach. This would mean that Armando's circus was
> located somewhere in orange county (probably irvine, as that is between
> those two points and still has large grassy areas where a circus could
> pitch their tents).
>
> Now, you could argue that this does NOT mean that he was still in the
> Orange County area when Ceasar grew up . . .

You sure could. Armando was Florida-bound at the end of Escape,
indicating that his circus had no real home base.

> . . . but the descriptions of where the central city was, in
> relation to the ape processing area (at the port) still fits the
> geographical description of Los Angeles. It certainly did NOT in any way
> resemble manhattan -- where there are no large open areas -- and the
> tubeway to the water from the city would have been much shorter.

No, but in BEHIND, the filmmakers said they were looking specifically
for a "futuristic" location, so they chose Century City in LA.
Manhattan, of course, did not end up looking like Century City by 1991,
by neither were we overtaken by intelligent slave apes . . .

Phil
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I agree with Armando on the location thing.

Chris
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Well, the greatest screw up of all is Talor landing in 3979 and brent landing in 3955.
But what the hell, I still love those ape movies.

For planet of the Apes: Images, sounds wavs and MPEG vidoes.
Go to: www.prophecysite.com/planetmovie.htm
And go Ape!

-----

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Don't worry about being argumentaie, things like this on the list are ment for
debate.
-Caesar
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Hey there...I'm new to the group and I wanted to
see if anyone out there knows what the name of
Taylor's ship was. I have read conflicting
accounts of the name (Icharus & Magellan), but
nothing written in stone. Any ideas?

Steve

-----

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Damn I never noticed that mistake. Thats pretty screwed up they didn't catch
that one.

Chris
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> Hey there...I'm new to the group and I wanted to
> see if anyone out there knows what the name of
> Taylor's ship was. I have read conflicting
> accounts of the name (Icharus & Magellan), but
> nothing written in stone. Any ideas?

Never mentioned in any film, but the model kit I just bought lists it as
the Icarus.
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In case you don't read that big redhaired guy's site . . .

(the following is copied directly from "Ain't It Cool News" - not my
words)

<<Contrary to rumor, Jim Cameron has not yet completed his Planet of the
Apes script. He's only recently begun work on it.

The "George Taylor" part has been written with Arnold in mind for the
lead, but, in an interesting deviation from the 1968 version of the
film, the main character will not be a misantrope who is digusted with
his fellow man. Arnold's character is more optomistic than George
Taylor, which I for one think is a good thing. There's a female
scientist/astronaut/love interest part for a pretty hispanic actress as
well as character who's something of a teenage prodigy (PHIL'S NOTE:
UGH.).

Also, never let it be said that Jim isn't one to keep up with current
events. His early draft is toying with the idea of having a John
Glenn-type figure ... possibly to be played by original Apes astronaut
Charlton Heston. It doesn't _have_ to be Heston, but that's who Jim's
writing the part for and I think its appropriate.

I don't really feel like spoiling Jim's movie at this early stage, but I
will say that what I've read of this early (note that last word) draft
of the Planet of the Apes remake is pretty good. Jim seems to be headed
in the right direction. He's not there yet, but it's Jim so you know he
will be. Fox is pretty anxious to get this movie in theaters by summer
2000 or 2001, so hopefully development will come along nicely.

I haven't heard anything worthy of repetition about directors. And not
that this is anymore solid than your belly, Harry (*wink*), I've heard
talk about James Woods playing the Zaius part, perhaps Jennifer
Lopez/Salma Hayek in the love interest role and maybe Barry Watson of
7th Heaven for the "prodigy." And of course, Heston for the
space-geaser. These names may just be devices to help Jim visualize his
movie as he writes it, but with him on as director you know there's a
pretty good chance he'll get the cast he wants. >>

We now return you to Phil:

I've heard the James Wodds thing before, don't much care for it, but
again I'll point out that whatever "actors" end up playing the apes
will most likely be doing only the voices of their characters, as the
ape suits will be much more advanced and will require not just actors,
but "operators" inside them. More an more, however, I'm beginning to
hate the idea of a remake. In my opinion, writing is Cameron's weakest
ability.

Any thoughts?
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I don't like the idea of some sort of weird teenage prodigy being in the
movie. I'd really hate to see some one like De Caprio trying to act like a
teenage a genius. I'd like to see the actors wearing the ape suits. The body
language won't be cordinated if theres an operator walking around, and an
actor talking. I'd also like to see some one other than Schwanager play
Taylor. Other than that it sounds okay.
Do we have any solid ideas on what the plot might be like?

Chris
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Well,

Unfortunately, I must admit, I'm not that wild on a remake either.
I feel that it would probaby only hurt the series. I've heard so many
facts and rumors about the movies, I don't think it's possible for
anyone to find, confirmed reports anymore. In fact, I recently found a
clip I got out from a magazine about 10 years ago that talks about a
remake to "Planet of The Apes." Maybe I'm being too much like Heston
was after the first movie, but I don't think there's much more to add to
the series. Well, that's my input.

Ross

P.S. I don't like the idea about the teenager either.



Smoothness is all....

I need you all to tell me your nick names again. Sorry. I lost them. This is
the last time I will, as I am makingthe page as I get the nick names. Also, if
you want to sent a picture of your charecter, it would be much oblighed. Thank
you.
Caesar
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Uh,

Sorry, but was this before I was in the group? I have no idea what
you are talking about with nicknames and characters and pictures.

Ross



Smoothness is all....

I'm new, so I'm not sure what the last post meant.

Here's a pic, though:

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Museum/9953/phil91.jpg

I did a better version a couple years later, but haven't scanned those
pics yet.

Phil
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I've just joined the group, and would like to introduce myself.

I've been an APES fan since I was eight, I'm 33 now. I'm mainly into the
films, but am well versed on the TV show, cartoon, and comicbook. I
collect APE stuff, when my wife lets me. I just ordered the three new
Hasbro APE figures (Zaius, Ursus, Cornelius), and I'm looking forward to
the release of three more new APE figures early next year.

I live and own a business in Japan, but I'm originally from Houston
Texas. The only thing I love more than POTA is Tex-Mex cooking.

Here is how I rate the Apes films:

Planet of the Apes **** (four is tops)
Beneath the POTA ***1/2
Escape from the POTA ***1/2
Conquest of the POTA ***
Battle for the POTA **

I know many APES fans consider Conquest to be the best of the sequels,
but I have one nagging problem with it; how and why did Chimpanzees get
so tall in just twenty years or so?! In the earlier films it is easy to
except that the apes are somewhat evolved from the apes we know in the
present. Just as modern man is well taller than men of the middle ages.
But, in Conquest, suddenly the apes are "man-size". I know I'm
nitpicking, but I just can shake it... Any thoughts from the APE
scholars out there?

Reece Hendley
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>I
>collect APE stuff, when my wife lets me. I just ordered the three new
>Hasbro APE figures (Zaius, Ursus, Cornelius), and I'm looking forward to
>the release of three more new APE figures early next year.

does anyone else besides me think that the Cornelius figure sucks? It looks
NOTHING like him!

- Armando



_____________

Oh,

Okay, I think I get it now. I say I'll have to go with Dr. Milo
for my nickname. I mean, any ape who can figure out how to work a NASA
space ship from the 1970's when the most advanced transportation he's
seen is some horses.... that's talent! I want to know where he got the
launch pad, and how he dried that ship out, after being at the bottom of
a poisonous sea for so long. Well, that's all for me!

Ross

P.S. Do you mean a picture of myself, or Doctor Milo?

He does indeed suck. I hope to fix him with some paint and haircutting.
I also need to dye Zaius' PINK shirt.

Here are some custom POTA figures I made to go with the old Mego line:

http://www.toymania.com/megomuseum/custom/pn01..html"


sam rosenthal wrote:

>
> >I
> >collect APE stuff, when my wife lets me. I just ordered the three new
> >Hasbro APE figures (Zaius, Ursus, Cornelius), and I'm looking forward to
> >the release of three more new APE figures early next year.
>
> does anyone else besides me think that the Cornelius figure sucks? It looks
> NOTHING like him!
>
> - Armando
>
> _____________

Ok, here's the scenario. Fox calls you and asks you to put a Planet ofthe Apes
action figure line into the works. They say they want six figures, one
vehicle, and one playset. Who do you make figures out of? What toy company do
you choose to make the figures(Kenner, McFarlene, ToyBiz, Mattel, etc), and
what age group would you gear these toys too?

-Caesar
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And you can choose to have one mail in figure, (so there can bee seven total)
do you make a mail in? If so, who?
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I would have McFarlene Toys make the action figures, and have them make
Taylor, Dr Zaios, Ursus, with removable "hat", so multiple copies could be
bought for gorilla soldiers, Corneilous, Zirra, and Brent, with Nova as a Mail
in. I would have the cage thing that Brent and Nova hijacked as the vehicle,
and an Apecity play set.
We can all dream, can't we?

-Caesar
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Attachments :

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Armando,

You're right, the figure doesn't look anything like Cornelius. But it is
still better than nuthin'!

I wish they'd make a Nova figure that was just as beautiful as she.
Better yet, how about a Talking Nova Doll!? No? Well, maybe it's a bad
idea... SORRY!

Reece
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I like this poll,

I would have to make my six figures Taylor (3 sets of clothes, NASA
uniform, stinky-mute human clothes, and mutant-human clothes), Brent
(stinky-human clothes and that underwear he was wearing at the
begining), Cornelius, Zira, Dr. Zaius, and Ursus (have different
accessories and clothes so he could be switched to Julius, etc.). The
vehicle would be the horse and carriage/cage thing, and I'd have a
playset of that "arena" in Ape City (you know, the one where Taylor
called Dr. Zaius a bloody baboon). I think it would be different if you
had the Cabbage Path Doll company make big, realistic looking action
figures. Now that'd kick #**! I'd try and make it so they toys could
really be for any age. Nova's a perfect mail-in figure, because
everyone would want her. Well, that's my vote.

Ross (Dr. Milo)



Smoothness is all....

Hi Reece-

The info on the site is a bit dated, as I no longer make OR sell them.
I just have the ones in my collection now.

When I have pics of my other customs (Dodge, Landon, Caesar, Armando,
Breck, Kolp, background chimps, slave chimps, slave gorillas, and
Virgil), I'll send you guys the link.

reece wrote:

>
> Hi Philip,
>
> I checked out your custom Megos. Very impressive. Taylor was ace. He
> looks like he could start cussing and pounding the beach any second.
>
> At the website it said you make and SELL these figures. Are you still
> making and selling them??? I'm interested...
>
> Reece
>
> P.S. How about that Nova Doll!?

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Thank you for clearing that up, I knew I wasn't crazy.

Chris
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Ross/Reece had asked some interesting questions regarding the appearance of tall apes in Conquest and the recovery of Taylor's ship by Dr. Milo.
Here's my theory on the apes...and this is totally my opinion and completely open to suggestions.

I do not believe that the apes were able to evolve so quickly into the ones we saw on Conquest. There had to be some genetic tampering somewhere in the past. Do you remember Mendemus from Battle? He was an older ape that was the teacher of Virgil (when Virgil was a boy). I'm not really sure how apes age, but that would still make Mendemus pretty old. At least old enough to pre-date Zira and Corelius' arrival to our Earth. Maybe the apes were man's own creation through genetic tampering. Consider how we are now experimenting with Elephant eggs and the genetic material from the extinct Mammoth...odds are that it was a genetics company that came up with the idea (and eventually went commercial when the plague killed all the cats and dogs).

Regarding the ship Taylor arrived in (The Icarus): I never really saw the entire vessel in any of the movies. In POTA, we saw it sticking out of the water, in Beneath, we saw Brent's ship with some sort of scorched engine attached and in Escape, we saw a small ship with no engine. I have always been a little confused about this, but it really had to do with the films' lack of continuity. After all, the director didn't envision us having VCR's to look back on every detail.

We know that Taylor said that he and his crew were in space for 6 months before going into hibernation. That would require lots of fuel and storage space for food & oxygen. I have always thought that the Icarus was a landing craft that was attached to a much larger support vessel (maybe 3X the size). Perhaps in POTA, the entire craft (landing & support section) crashed into the inland sea and the weight pulled the entire vessel under.

Maybe at a later time the landing craft (which had pockets of air left in it) broke loose from the support section and resurfaced for Milo to find and re-launch. Perhaps it was like the aft section of the Titanic and broke loose from the main vessel...

Upon re-entry to our Earth, the smaller engine module was automatically jettisoned and the landing craft glided into the ocean and this is what we saw in Escape.

In Beneath, the Landing Craft was able to correctly detach from the support section while in space. This landing vehicle crashed into the desert floor with its engine still intact (unlike the Icarus, which jettisoned its engine in Escape).

Well, those are my theories...I hope it sounds somewhat plausible.
Does anybody else have some ideas? Thanks guys!

Steve
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In a message dated 11/23/98 3:40:33 PM Eastern Standard Time,
steven.temple@... writes:

<<

I do not believe that the apes were able to evolve so quickly into the ones
we saw on Conquest. There had to be some genetic tampering somewhere in the
past. Do you remember Mendemus from Battle? He was an older ape that was the
teacher of Virgil (when Virgil was a boy). I'm not really sure how apes age,
but that would still make Mendemus pretty old. At least old enough to pre-
date Zira and Corelius' arrival to our Earth. Maybe the apes were man's own
creation through genetic tampering. Consider how we are now experimenting
with Elephant eggs and the genetic material from the extinct Mammoth...odds
are that it was a genetics company that came up with the idea (and eventually
went commercial when the plague killed all the cats and dogs).

Regarding the ship Taylor arrived in (The Icarus): I never really saw the
entire vessel in any of the movies. In POTA, we saw it sticking out of the
water, in Beneath, we saw Brent's ship with some sort of scorched engine
attached and in Escape, we saw a small ship with no engine. I have always
been a little confused about this, but it really had to do with the films'
lack of continuity. After all, the director didn't envision us having VCR's
to look back on every detail.

We know that Taylor said that he and his crew were in space for 6 months
before going into hibernation. That would require lots of fuel and storage
space for food & oxygen. I have always thought that the Icarus was a landing
craft that was attached to a much larger support vessel (maybe 3X the size).
Perhaps in POTA, the entire craft (landing & support section) crashed into the
inland sea and the weight pulled the entire vessel under.

Maybe at a later time the landing craft (which had pockets of air left in it)
broke loose from the support section and resurfaced for Milo to find and re-
launch. Perhaps it was like the aft section of the Titanic and broke loose
from the main vessel...

Upon re-entry to our Earth, the smaller engine module was automatically
jettisoned and the landing craft glided into the ocean and this is what we saw
in Escape.

In Beneath, the Landing Craft was able to correctly detach from the support
section while in space. This landing vehicle crashed into the desert floor
with its engine still intact (unlike the Icarus, which jettisoned its engine
in Escape).

Well, those are my theories...I hope it sounds somewhat plausible.
Does anybody else have some ideas? Thanks guys!

>>

The same exact ship is used in the Planet Of THe Apes TV series piolet. Check
it out. I like your idea on the Apes evolution, nbut I still think that
Mandemus is only about 40,-50, and that it was stress which made him look so
aged.
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Hey, thanks for responding...
Let's think about the Mandemus thing for a moment...
If Mandemus was in his forties at the time of Battle, that would put his birthdate around the late 1950's or early 1960's. That still predates the arrival of Zira, Milo and Cornelius by at least ten years.

It also seems strange that the (Post-Escape) U.S. Govt. would allow such breeding, knowing what Dr. Hasslein had told the President about the future and the downfall of man.
It is apparent in Conquest that many officials knew the truth (i.e. Gov. Breck) but kept the program going anyway under the direction of Ape Management.

Thanks Again!
Steve
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Hi,

Steve's theories about man genetically tampering with the apes is great.
It is good to know I'm not the only person who thinks about this stuff.

Is anyone out there in Apedom in contact with someone involved in the
new Apes film? As I am new to the group, I'm not up on everything, and
maybe I'm asking things that everyone's already disscussed in full (but
please don't do me like they did Landon). Anyway, I think Steve's theory
would fit in great with what I've heard about the new Apes film! I've
read that the apes are technologically advanced, and send a virus back
to our time that kills all the children of earth. A team of astronauts
is sent to find the source of the virus, and....well you can guess the
rest. Of course, all this is just rumour on the net, isn't it. But if
Cameron is going to alter the story this much (not that its bad),
someone should get Steves theory to him. It is a very logical, and
plausible way to explain how apes came to rule the world, and very
timely indeed! Thanks Steve.

I'm sure everone has heard about Schwarzenegger considering starring in
the new Apes film. What does everyone think about that! Certainly I
can't imagine him playing the role of Taylor as Heston did. Taylor was a
nililistic, philosophical loner who was fed up with humanity, then was
forced to defend it on a world ruled by apes. No, can't see it. The role
of Taylor worked so well because he was vulnerable. He was weak and
frail, no match for the gorillas. He had to use his wits. Schwarzenegger
would tear the gorillas' heads off with his bare-hands, then make a wise
crack, "Now now, don't go losing your heads..." Don't get me wrong, I
like Schwarzenegger, especially teamed with Cameron. TERMINATOR is one
of the best SciFi flicks of the 80's (along with Cameron's ALIENS). I
just hope he doesn't try to play Taylor, if there is a Taylor, the way
Heston did.

Chris's Planet of the Apes Page ( www.geocities.com/Area51/Hollow/3774 )
has a nice picture of the "second wave" of new POTA 12" figures. They
are Zira, Taylor, and "Conquest" Gorilla. Check them out. I hope
everyone in Apedome buys these figures. If they sell well maybe they'll
make more!!! I really need that Nova figure (with removable skins)!

Reece
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reece wrote:

> Anyway, I think Steve's theory
> would fit in great with what I've heard about the new Apes film! I've
> read that the apes are technologically advanced, and send a virus back
> to our time that kills all the children of earth. A team of astronauts
> is sent to find the source of the virus, and....well you can guess the
> rest. Of course, all this is just rumour on the net, isn't it.

I read that script (both drafts). They were poor, and are being tossed
out. I wouldn't expect Cameron to hang onto that plot at all.

>But if
> Cameron is going to alter the story this much (not that its bad),
> someone should get Steves theory to him.

Also not a good idea. Ideas shouldn't be given away to Hollywood, and
for a variety of legal reasons, Cameron couldn't use an idea that was
just "sent" to him. For this reason, unsolicited treatments, scripts,
pitches, etc., aren't even opened.

It is a very logical, and

> plausible way to explain how apes came to rule the world, and very
> timely indeed! Thanks Steve.
>
> Chris's Planet of the Apes Page ( www.geocities.com/Area51/Hollow/3774 )
> has a nice picture of the "second wave" of new POTA 12" figures. They
> are Zira, Taylor, and "Conquest" Gorilla. Check them out. I hope
> everyone in Apedome buys these figures.

I just wish I didn't have to do Hasbro's work for them. I've completely
repainted Cornelius' face, cut and restyled the hair, now I'm recoloring
the outfit. That's a lot of work for a figure that was supposedly
"done" when I bought it.
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I am bringing this post back from the past, to see if any of our new
members have any interesting theories on this question...


You remember how in the first POA, the forbidden zone seemed to be a vast
inhospidable terrain that took ages to go to / across. The implication was
that Taylor was travelling FAR from ape city . . . before he found the
statue and then the mutants. But in the 2nd film, it seemed that there was
a 'short cut' that Brent entered, that led into the subway system.

Oh duh! the Manhattan subway goes miles and miles into the buroughs . . .
so, does this mean that Ape City is actually located in New Jersey?

My point is this: if that entry was so close, why hadn't any of the apes
ever discovered it? don't you think precocious ape children would have
played in the subways?


- Armando (always driving at some new theory)



_____________

This is being reposted for new list members. Check it out:


http://www.darkwave.com/apes.html"

Hey all -- check out the page I made . . . hopefully it will help unaware
ape fans join our group. Please spread the word about this list. New
members Are always welcome (and make the list more interesting). IF you
know how to get Yahoo or other sites to list the page . . . go for it!


- Armando (helper of apes)



_____________

I'm against Schwanaegar playing Taylor. I'd prefer Kurt Russel to play the
character of Taylor if there is one. Russel seems to have a more convincing
serious side.If they don't have a Taylor character on the remake I wouldn't
really mind if Schwanaegar played in the movie. Has anybody heard any new
rumours? Also thanks for checking out my site, Reece.

Chris
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I agree the Cornelius figure looks messed up but why did you buy it if you
didn't like the way it looked?

Chris
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> I agree the Cornelius figure looks messed up but why did you buy it if you
> didn't like the way it looked?

If I didn't think I could fix it, I wouldn't have bought it. But I have
a slew of custom Mego POTA characters, and I thought it might be a fun
project. I was right.:)

Phil

> Chris

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> What
> did the script say about the Human Apes Hybrid?

I don't believe it was in this version. What this version did have,
though, was the wraparound segemnt from Battle, where a wise old ape is
talking to human and ape children about Taylor and Brent, and how they
saved the world from nuclear destruction (the bomb doesn't go off in
this version, but amny apes and mutants are killed or left in the
Forbidden Zone).

At the conclusion, apes and humans are living together happily, then
suddenly it cuts to the Forbidden Zone, and you see a group of mutant
apes emerge from the rubble. One of them kills a flying dove - THE END.
Even in the discarded drafts, they were going for "shock" endings.

It was kind of silly, but interesting to see where they got the
wraparound scenes fro Battle.
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Philip,
You mentioned that you had a model of the Icarus (Taylor's ship). Is this a new model or is it an old one that was re-released? Any ideas on where the rest of us can get one?

Thanks!
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WHERE CAN WE FIND these rough drafts of the script? Do you know of
somewhere that sells them. I am very curious to read the various "early
versions" of the first movie. How much of what remains to Rod actually
write????


- Armando

>> What
>> did the script say about the Human Apes Hybrid?
>
>I don't believe it was in this version. What this version did have,
>though, was the wraparound segemnt from Battle, where a wise old ape is
>talking to human and ape children about Taylor and Brent, and how they
>saved the world from nuclear destruction (the bomb doesn't go off in
>this version, but amny apes and mutants are killed or left in the
>Forbidden Zone).
>
>At the conclusion, apes and humans are living together happily, then
>suddenly it cuts to the Forbidden Zone, and you see a group of mutant
>apes emerge from the rubble. One of them kills a flying dove - THE END.
>Even in the discarded drafts, they were going for "shock" endings.
>
>It was kind of silly, but interesting to see where they got the
>wraparound scenes fro Battle.
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_____________

I was always wondering as a kid why Taylor was able to talk to the apes. It seems like Taylor would have suspected that he was on Earth right away when he heard the apes speak a language that he could understand (or make sense of anyway).
Was it English? A variation of English?

We know that Caesar and his comrades spoke it, so was it handed down as the official language of the Lawgiver? And what about Zira being able to read his first note?

I know it's easier to just ignore that aspect of the movie, but it is something to consider. If the apes could read English handwriting, what's up with all of the hieroglyphics? It seems like Dr. Zaius would have something to say about borrowing the language and writing of man...

Any ideas out there?

Alexander
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sam rosenthal wrote:

>
> WHERE CAN WE FIND these rough drafts of the script? Do you know of
> somewhere that sells them. I am very curious to read the various "early
> versions" of the first movie. How much of what remains to Rod actually
> write????

Even though the film correctly gives Serling second billing, people
frequently have the wrong impression that Serling was the main
screenwriter. Serling's adaptation stuck much more closely to the book
- the apes had cars, helicopters, and were generally much more civil to
"Thomas" than they are to Taylor in the finished film. The Statue of
Liberty ending is in Serling's drafts.

Michael Wilson really established the landscape, tone, and ape culture
we've come to associate with the film.
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ATTENTION APE FANS!

SATURDAY 7:00 P.M. CST
PLANET OF THE APES T.V. SERIES FROM 1974
AIRING ON FOX-FAMILY CHANNEL...
(POSSIBLY PART OF A MARATHON)

HOPE THEY KEEP THIS UP - I WANT TO TAPE THEM!
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Steve-

There are TWO models currently available. The one I bought was $40 and
depicts the ship sticking out of the water. There is another that has
an interior (not very detailed though), and costs $100. BOTH are
featured in this month's issue of Modeler's Resource (issue #25, I
believe). The $40 is basically made for you, and just needs to be
painted and decaled. It's a very nice reproduction.

Steve Temple wrote:

>
> Philip,
> You mentioned that you had a model of the Icarus (Taylor's ship). Is this a new model or is it an old one that was re-released? Any ideas on where the rest of us can get one?
>
> Thanks!
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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In ESCAPE, Cornelius is asked by the Presidential Committee if Zira and
he could speak any other languages besides English. He replied, "What's
English? I speak the language pastdown from my ancestors." Just be glad
FOX didn't follow the original novel too closely, are they'd all be
speaking French! Of course Taylor should have known where he was, if
they were all speaking English. Also remember that the young chimps in
BENEATH all carried protest signs written in English Romanization. Maybe
the 'funky' ape writing is just decoration. It is a valed point however,
and makes my brain hurt thinking about it. Of course, the novel, and Rod
Serling's influence emphasised the dream-like, surreal, and allegorical
side of POTA, more than the purist "Sci Fi/keep the facts straight"
style. Maybe Taylor took the expression "English is the universal
language" literally!

Reece
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Taylor probably figured the apes read his thoughts and understood what he was
saying. Zauis probably figured either ape made the language on their own or
thought if the human language was good enough for the past generations of
apedom it was good enough for him.

Chris
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> Just be glad
> FOX didn't follow the original novel too closely, are they'd all be
> speaking French!

In the novel, the protagonist spent months in the cage and learned the
Apes' language by listening. The "Apes understanding English" is a
necessary oversight on the film's part, I think.

> Also remember that the young chimps in
> BENEATH all carried protest signs written in English Romanization. Maybe
> the 'funky' ape writing is just decoration.

Also keep in mind that several human languages use not only the same
letters that English uses, but also use unique characters (Chinese, for
example), so it's not too much of a stretch to think that both forms of
writing were valid for the Apes.
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Thanks guys! You had some really great ideas to explain the ape language and the English usage.

A lot of the hieroglyphics could be representative of status as well (i.e. the glyphs on Ursus' helmet could be a symbol of rank or Zaius' glyphs could show his rank in the govt.)
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Hey,

BlakerG@... wrote: "Taylor probably figured the apes read his
thoughts and understood what he was saying."
I just can't accept that explanation. Taylor had seen at this
point that apes were not as advanced as the human culture he came from.
How could he figure these apes were mind readers if they were still
living like early, native americans.
As for a little bit of a change of topic, I was wondering if
anybody had any suggestions for a possible error at the beginning of the
first movie. After Taylor finishes talking and injecting himself, he
walks very casually towards the back of the ship. What ever happened to
zero gravity in space? At the time this movie was made, we hadn't even
reached the moon, so can this be accounted for? Is the audience suppose
to assume that in the early 1970's (which is suppose to be the time they
left earth) space ships had some sort of bulit-in, artifical gravity?
Just wondering....

Ross (Dr. Milo)

Smoothness is all....

> Is the audience suppose
> to assume that in the early 1970's (which is suppose to be the time they
> left earth) space ships had some sort of bulit-in, artifical gravity?

Yes, as you are to also assume that the technology was developed for
suspended animation and interstellar space travel. In 1967, the feeling
was that space travel was moving forward, and it wasn't too much of a
stretch of the imagination to believe these things were possible. You
can't blame the filmmakers for being unable to predict the future - if
you can, I'd like to know why I never got a slave ape after all my dogs
and cats didn't die in 1983, and I'd also like to know why that slave
ape I didn't get didn't revolt in '91.

And NYC wasn't even turned into a prison in '97.

> Ross (Dr. Milo)
>
> Smoothness is all....
>
>

In a message dated 11/30/98 8:23:53 AM Eastern Standard Time,
pjn1209@... writes:

<< ace ships had some sort of bulit-in, artifical gravity?

Yes, as you are to also assume that the technology was developed for
suspended animation and interstellar space travel. In 1967, the feeling
was that space travel was moving forward, and it wasn't too much of a
stretch of the imagination to believe these things were possible. You
can't blame the filmmakers for being unable to predict the future - if
you can, I'd like to know why I never got a slave ape after all my dogs
and cats didn't die in 1983, and I'd also like to know why that slave
ape I didn't get didn't revolt in '91.

And NYC wasn't even turned into a prison in '97.

>>

Yeah! My sister wanted to borrow some money from me to buy a "Pet Ape" so he
could protect her when the apes revolted...HEhehehe Isn't that cute? I had to
explaine to her that it was only a movie...
-Caesar
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Blaker-@... wrote: "Taylor probably figured the apes read his thoughts and understood what he was saying."

Ross (Dr. Milo) responded: I just can't accept that explanation. Taylor had seen at this point that apes were not as advanced as the human culture he came from. How could he figure these apes were mind readers if they were still living like early, native americans?

Response: Why not? It's as valid as any explanation...Have you ever read the Martian Chronicles? The Martians were able to read the thoughts of the astronauts even before they landed. Also, some of the mutants from "Beneath" had the power to read minds...whose to say some of the apes didn't have a few psychic powers? But who knows? They really didn't address it in the movies...

Philip had some good explanations about the space travel in the 70's. A lot of sci-fi movies get ahead of themselves with technology. Look at Space 1999 - - we better hurry if Moonbase Alpha is to be operational by next year. Besides, maybe in the POTA universe the human technology advanced much quicker than in our own universe.

Alexander (Steve)
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>Blaker-@... wrote: "Taylor probably figured the apes read his thoughts
>and understood what he was saying."
>
>Ross (Dr. Milo) responded: I just can't accept that explanation. Taylor
>had seen at this point that apes were not as advanced as the human culture
>he came from. How could he figure these apes were mind readers if they
>were still living like early, native americans?
>
>Response: Why not? It's as valid as any explanation...Have you ever read
>the Martian Chronicles? The Martians were able to read the thoughts of
>the astronauts even before they landed. Also, some of the mutants from
>"Beneath" had the power to read minds...whose to say some of the apes
>didn't have a few psychic powers? But who knows? They really didn't
>address it in the movies...

I have been keeping my mouth shut about this tangent . . . but just FORGET
about the apes having psychic powers. It's completely absurd. HAVE YOU BEEN
WATCHING the movies? If they had psychic powers, Zira would have known
immediately that Taylor was intelligent and could talk; and so would Zaius,
and Mr. Heston would have been castrated about one hour after arriving in
Ape City (which wouldn't have been such a BAD IDEA in my mind) . . .

- Armando (Sheesh!)



_____________

Sam Rosenthal wrote: I have been keeping my mouth shut about this tangent . . . but just FORGET about the apes having psychic powers. It's completely absurd. HAVE YOU BEEN WATCHING the movies? If they had psychic powers, Zira would have known immediately that Taylor was intelligent and could talk; and so would Zaius, and Mr. Heston would have been castrated about one hour after arriving in Ape City (which wouldn't have been such a BAD IDEA in my mind) . . .

- Armando (Sheesh!)

Response: YES, I HAVE WATCHED THE MOVIES...But Let's keep in mind this is an OPEN forum for discussing ideas and having fun. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion no matter how absurd, so please respect the rights of others and keep your feedback a little less sarcastic and hostile. You may make more friends that way.
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In a message dated 12/1/98 11:02:02 AM Eastern Standard Time,
steven.temple@... writes:

<< Sam Rosenthal wrote: I have been keeping my mouth shut about this tangent
. . . but just FORGET about the apes having psychic powers. It's completely
absurd. HAVE YOU BEEN WATCHING the movies? If they had psychic powers, Zira
would have known immediately that Taylor was intelligent and could talk; and
so would Zaius, and Mr. Heston would have been castrated about one hour after
arriving in Ape City (which wouldn't have been such a BAD IDEA in my mind) . .
.

- Armando (Sheesh!)

Response: YES, I HAVE WATCHED THE MOVIES...But Let's keep in mind this is an
OPEN forum for discussing ideas and having fun. Everyone is entitled to their
own opinion no matter how absurd, so please respect the rights of others and
keep your feedback a little less sarcastic and hostile. You may make more
friends that way. >>
I'd like to step in here, and ask that we droop the insults. Please. lets not
get too upset over this list...Lets have fun and talk about POTA.
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>In a message dated 12/1/98 11:02:02 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>steven.temple@... writes:
>
><< Sam Rosenthal wrote: I have been keeping my mouth shut about this tangent
>. . . but just FORGET about the apes having psychic powers. It's completely
>absurd. HAVE YOU BEEN WATCHING the movies? If they had psychic powers, Zira
>would have known immediately that Taylor was intelligent and could talk; and
>so would Zaius, and Mr. Heston would have been castrated about one hour after
>arriving in Ape City (which wouldn't have been such a BAD IDEA in my mind) . .
>.
>
> - Armando (Sheesh!)
>
> Response: YES, I HAVE WATCHED THE MOVIES...But Let's keep in mind this is an
>OPEN forum for discussing ideas and having fun. Everyone is entitled to their
>own opinion no matter how absurd, so please respect the rights of others and
>keep your feedback a little less sarcastic and hostile. You may make more
>friends that way. >>

>I'd like to step in here, and ask that we droop the insults. Please. lets not
>get too upset over this list...Lets have fun and talk about POTA.

Aside from my sarcastic tone, MOST of my insult was aimed towards charlton
heston, and he deserves it!!! Thank you for coming to my defense!

- Armando



_____________

I think the owner of this list was referring to both parties Sam. You and me. No hard feelings...

Steve

P.S. Heston deserves a punch for making Solar Crisis too.
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Has anyone heard anything more about the new movie? The last I heard was that Cameron was definitely going to do the movie when he finished his year long vacation...

- Alexander
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I don't know Sam from Adam, but as I read his post, I didn't get the
impression that he was being hostile. Rather, I read his words as a
reflection of my own feelings on this thread: total bewilderment that
anyone would think the apes were psychic. I felt no malice, I was just
baffled. I don't think Sam meant any ill feeling.


Steve Temple wrote:

>
> Sam Rosenthal wrote: I have been keeping my mouth shut about this tangent . . . but just FORGET about the apes having psychic powers. It's completely absurd. HAVE YOU BEEN WATCHING the movies? If they had psychic powers, Zira would have known immediately that Taylor was intelligent and could talk; and so would Zaius, and Mr. Heston would have been castrated about one hour after arriving in Ape City (which wouldn't have been such a BAD IDEA in my mind) . . .
>
> - Armando (Sheesh!)
>
> Response: YES, I HAVE WATCHED THE MOVIES...But Let's keep in mind this is an OPEN forum for discussing ideas and having fun. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion no matter how absurd, so please respect the rights of others and keep your feedback a little less sarcastic and hostile. You may make more friends that way.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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I don't know if the Apes were psychic, but Nova was certainly
bewitching!

Reece
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Hey guys,
Good one Reece...ahhhh...Linda Harrison...what a babe. I would have liked to have seen her more...in less.

Regarding the big debate earlier, I was just defending my position on the topic and the opinion of the gentleman who brought up the psychics in the first place. I try to keep an open mind on POTA subjects and I'm willing to hear anyone's idea...absurd, reasonable...you name it. Sometimes it's fun to think of some "what if" scenarios. I guess you could say we both "went Ape" over the topic. I'm sure Sam (Armando) is a great guy and I harbor no ill feelings over the matter.

Talk to ya'll later,

Steve
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I think Cameron has begun work on the script now. Thats all I've heard.

Chris
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A&E is doing a Biography of Roddy McDowall that will air on December 22nd.
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There's an item in the current People Magazine about Elizabeth Taylor
throwing
a party on November 15th for about 100 of Roddy's friends. It says that
Roddy
didn't want a public funeral or formal memorial service but a private
gathering. Guests included Gergory Peck, Jack Lemmon, Anjelica Huston, Liam
Neeson, and Michael Feinstein. Guests were "moved to tears with a version
of
'Amazing Grace' by a Scottish bagpiper and later shared funny stories about
McDowall." It also said that all of Roddy's personal papers and photographs
will be sealed for 100 years. According to Feinstein, Roddy said it was
because
"in 100 years, it will no longer be gossip."
Was there ever any doubt this was one classy gentleman?
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I wanted to ask a question about something
Armando brought up a while back:

>You remember how in the first POA, the forbidden zone seemed to be a vast inhospidable terrain that took ages to go to / across. The implication was

that Taylor was travelling FAR from ape city . . . before he found the statue and then the mutants. But in the 2nd film, it seemed that there was a 'short cut' that Brent entered, that led into the subway system.

Oh duh! the Manhattan subway goes miles and miles into the buroughs . . . so, does this mean that Ape City is actually located in New Jersey?

Alexander's Response: It's very possible, but I would like to hear your opinion on this. I made a print out of Cornelius' map from the first movie and it showed the Forbidden Zone on the right side and Ape City far to the left near the jungles. The map may have been something a prop designer came up with, but it supports your idea.

Cornelius said that the Eastern desert had never been fully explored and that holds true if the map is accurate and the Forbidden Zone is East. So if Taylor travelled East of Ape City into the Forbidden Zone, he would eventually run into the Statue of Liberty and if he veered Northeast, he would approach Manhattan and St. Patricks Cathedral.

I've never been there, but I checked an atlas and I think you're right. That would definitely put Ape City somewhere in New Jersey.
Any ideas on what cities are near there?
And is there a subway running from that area into Manhattan? (sorry, but I don't know that much about the area).

Let me know what you think. Thanks!
Steve
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>>Oh duh! the Manhattan subway goes miles and miles into the buroughs . . .
>>so, does this mean that Ape City is actually located in New Jersey?
>
>Alexander's Response: It's very possible, but I would like to hear your
>opinion on this. I made a print out of Cornelius' map from the first
>movie and it showed the Forbidden Zone on the right side and Ape City far
>to the left near the jungles. The map may have been something a prop
>designer came up with, but it supports your idea.
>
>Cornelius said that the Eastern desert had never been fully explored and
>that holds true if the map is accurate and the Forbidden Zone is East. So
>if Taylor travelled East of Ape City into the Forbidden Zone, he would
>eventually run into the Statue of Liberty and if he veered Northeast, he
>would approach Manhattan and St. Patricks Cathedral.
>
>I've never been there, but I checked an atlas and I think you're right.
>That would definitely put Ape City somewhere in New Jersey.
>Any ideas on what cities are near there?
>And is there a subway running from that area into Manhattan? (sorry, but I
>don't know that much about the area).

There are NO subways that run from Manhattan to New Jersey. There are
trains; but those do NOT look like the ones Brent was in. He was definitely
in the NY Subway. There are lots of dwellings across the river from
Manhattan (in New Jersey) such as "Jersey City". For him to have traveled
East to the statue of Liberty, he would have been further south than that
city . . . . more along the lines of where the Newark airport is . . .


Now, this brings up a theory that my girlfriend and I both firmly believe
in. It is this:

The statue of liberty is NOT buried up to her waste. The Top Half was blown
off the bottom half by a bomb that exploded near NYC during the human war,
after the ape's revolted. A large bomb blew it into the air and it happened
to land right-side up. With this theory, the statue of liberty could have
landed most anywhere in the general region of southern Manhattan . . .

My belief is that the Ape City was actually built over the area that used
to be the Hudson River. This would explain why, when Brent was just a bit
outside of the city, he could find a manhattan subway line. When they
travelled to the water, they were on the south side of the forbidden zone.
I would have to look at a map, to fully realize my theories . . . The
distances between these areas are not as VAST as proposed in the movie . .
.



_____________

>There are lots of dwellings across the river from
> Manhattan (in New Jersey) such as "Jersey City". For him to have traveled
> East to the statue of Liberty, he would have been further south than that
> city . . . . more along the lines of where the Newark airport is . . .

I think the time it took them to travel that distance makes Ape City
farther than that. Perhaps in Middlesex County, near the Raritan River.
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Armando wrote: My belief is that the Ape City was actually built over the area that used to be the Hudson River. When they travelled to the water, they were on the south side of the forbidden zone.

Alexander replies: That's cool, there is acutally a river that runs south of Ape City into a huge body of water on the southern portion of the map...right below the Forbidden Zone. Could the ocean scenes we saw be what's left of the Upper Bay?

Philip thinks that the city was further west, near Middlesex county. Either way, that is a long way for Brent to travel in what looked like a short period of time. Do you all think they cut the trip short to move the movie along?

Regarding the war: How many direct nuke hits do ya'll think the New York area took? I guess I was wondering because of the mountainous terrain seen in the movie. Taylor said something about a metor storm (but of course, we eventually find out why it looks that way). Could the nukes have changed the terrain that much or could there have been other natural disasters to help it along?

Thanks!
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I think there is a minor fault line near or under New York. The Russians or
whoever could have intentionally hit the fault line to cause earthquake
otherwise I don't think its possible for several nukes to just change the land
scape from the shockwave.

Chris
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Well,

Being from the Chicagoland area, I know next-to-nothing on New York
City. But, I try to attack things by starting with the given info, and
going from there. Now, the subway had a name in it, something like
"Queensbro Plaza." Knowing that, you gotta except that Ape City is
right next door to that subway stop. I don't know, is that in New York
City? I think it is. Then I look at the map, Cornelius's directions,
and figure around where the Statue of Liberty is, Liberty Island, and
then you got yourself a pretty good basis to where everything is.



Ross (Dr. Milo)

Smoothness is all....

Well,

Being from the Chicagoland area, I know next-to-nothing on New York
City. But, I try to attack things by starting with the given info, and
going from there. Now, the subway had a name in it, something like
"Queensbro Plaza." Knowing that, you gotta except that Ape City is
right next door to that subway stop. I don't know, is that in New York
City? I think it is. Then I look at the map, Cornelius's directions,
and figure around where the Statue of Liberty is, Liberty Island, and
then you got yourself a pretty good basis to where everything is.



Ross (Dr. Milo)

Smoothness is all....

Ross T. wrote:

>
> Now, the subway had a name in it, something like
> "Queensbro Plaza." Knowing that, you gotta except that Ape City is
> right next door to that subway stop.

Brent's trek from Ape City to that subway stop was much longer in the
final draft of the script, but the scene was cut because of budget
reasons. It's also in the novelization. It took much longer, and
involved them swimming underwater . . .
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> Brent's trek from Ape City to that subway stop was much longer in the
> final draft of the script, but the scene was cut because of budget
> reasons. It's also in the novelization. It took much longer, and
> involved them swimming underwater . . .

Alexander replies:
That makes sense...it's a shame they cut the scenes. Do you think the water they crossed was formerly the Hudson?

I found a passage in the novel that gives some info. about the surrounding area:
Ursus: "I saw our country imprisoned on one side by the sea, and by north and south and west - by naked desert." So we know the sea was East of Ape City.

Also, Cornelius mentioned to Brent that the last place they had seen Taylor and Nova was "to the North" of Ape City (from the movie). So, perhaps Cornelius' dig-site was Northeast of Ape City. Does this sound reasonable? Any other ideas?

Thanks!
Alexander

-----
See the original message at http://www.egroups.com/list/pota/?start=177
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Nothing thrilling, but the geography thread reminded me - the "sacred
scroll" that the new Cornelius figure comes with is actually the map he
shows to Taylor.
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Got this from a newsgroup - thought it might be an interesting
discussion:

(Everything below was copied from a NG post - not my words)


Okay, so there's an article in the local Toronto paper today by Geoff
Pevere about "The Planet of the Apes," and how the best time to see it
is when you're ten years old -- which is pretty much how old I was
when I saw it and loved it.

But, the article also says this, "The real reason The Planet of the
Apes packed such a wallop for those who saw it young is that... it was
the first movie we remember seeing that was actually ABOUT something
-- and something other than a really cool story about a spaceship
crash-landing on a planet ruled by human-hunting monkeys... Moreover
it was a SUBERSIVE message... The movie focuses on the redemption of
the cynical misanthrope played by Heston... a man whose own cynicism
about humanity is put to the test by the gun-toting, vivisection-crazy
apes. Ultimately, what he learns is the cause-and-effect nature of
history, of how the world we screw up today creates the one we live in
tomorrow."

The article admits, "Not a revelatory insight, perhaps, but bold
nevertheless, and particularly so in the context of the instant
gratification, live-for-the-moment world of popular entertainment...
Today history is something we go to the movies to escape, not
confront."

Well, lots of movies would deny that last point. I would say people go
to see 'Schindler's List' and 'Saving Private Ryan,' in order to
confront history, but they really are exceptions ('Lone Star,' of
course was specifically ABOUT confronting history).

So, what do you think? Is this what we complain about when we say
blockbusters lack substance or that their 'scripts are bad?' And will
the remake of the Apes have any subersive message? (I'm not even sure
what a subversive message would be, today).

Oh yeah, the article also says talk about a remake of Apes is,
"troubling... the historical moment that gave the movie its
subconscious-storming pungency is long gone."
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Does anyone know why there were two different MacDonalds in the last two movies? The first one (Hari Rhodes) was the assistant to Gov. Breck in Conquest, but he was replaced by MacDonald's brother in Battle (Austin Stoker). Did Hari Rhodes decide not to be in the follow-up movie?
How did this effect the script for Battle?
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Steve Temple wrote:

>
> Does anyone know why there were two different MacDonalds in the last two movies? The first one (Hari Rhodes) was the assistant to Gov. Breck in Conquest, but he was replaced by MacDonald's brother in Battle (Austin Stoker). Did Hari Rhodes decide not to be in the follow-up movie?

Yes.

> How did this effect the script for Battle?

They rewrote the part as his brother.

They also replaced Breeck with Kolp when Don Murray turned down the
film. One of my favorite lines that shows how screwed up this made
everything: "The black man is the brother of my predecessor's personal
assistant."

>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Free Web-based e-mail groups -- www.eGroups.com

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I just read that Cameron has left the Planet of the Apes remake.

Phil
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Where did you find this out? Who is going to replace him, and why did he
leave?

Chris
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I would be concerned if he pulled out of the project because it's likely
that it's his name involvement that will drive the financing.

By the way, I'm new to this email group... Pleased to meet all you
other apes! :)

JP



BlakerG@... wrote:

>
> Where did you find this out? Who is going to replace him, and why did he
> leave?
>
> Chris
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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>I would be concerned if he pulled out of the project because it's likely
>that it's his name involvement that will drive the financing.
>
>By the way, I'm new to this email group... Pleased to meet all you
>other apes! :)
>
>JP

The thing that bothers me about this remake ***IS*** that it is driven by
financial concerns, rather than by people who are intense believers in the
Ape idea. I would much rather one of us was writing the thing, then
somebody who wants to have a 'kid genius' in the film!

- Armando (now that would be a cool action figure! comes with hip beatnik
turtleneck or circus ringmaster outfits!)



_____________

>I would be concerned if he pulled out of the project because it's likely
>that it's his name involvement that will drive the financing.

Nah. It was being developed long before he came on board, and will
continue to be developed now that he's gone.
Fox wants another sci-fi franchise to put in rotation with the Star Wars
flicks.

Phil



BlakerG@... wrote:

>
> Where did you find this out? Who is going to replace him, and why did he
> leave?
>
> Chris
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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It was in Cinescape Online today, and it JUST happened, so no replacement
has been named.

The reason cited for his leaving was "creative differences". Hopefully in
the near future we will get some leakage abs to what Cameron had planned
(aside from what we've already heard).





BlakerG@... on 12/11/98 02:48:08 PM
To: Philip Nobile/MCS/Price Waterhouse@Price Waterhouse-US,
pota@egroups.com
cc:
Subject: Re: [pota] Remake news




Where did you find this out? Who is going to replace him, and why did he
leave?

Chris




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Having sought finance on a project myself, it cannot be ignored that
names bring in financing, Armando. I hope Fox goes forward, but let's
not forget what (often unfortunately) makes or breaks finance deals --
and no, Fox likely won't be paying for it themselves, unless it's based
of a letter of credit, which would require names attached at any rate.
Distribution is not necessarily everything.

Later,
JP


sam rosenthal wrote:

>
> >I would be concerned if he pulled out of the project because it's likely
> >that it's his name involvement that will drive the financing.
> >
> >By the way, I'm new to this email group... Pleased to meet all you
> >other apes! :)
> >
> >JP
>
> The thing that bothers me about this remake ***IS*** that it is driven by
> financial concerns, rather than by people who are intense believers in the
> Ape idea. I would much rather one of us was writing the thing, then
> somebody who wants to have a 'kid genius' in the film!
>
> - Armando (now that would be a cool action figure! comes with hip beatnik
> turtleneck or circus ringmaster outfits!)
>
> _____________

I agree with the JP guy, Cameron is a really hot producer right now and his
name would really help out movie, so the movie might be canceled since the
main guy in charge just quit. But on the other hand Schwanaeger has a hand in
this so he might keep it going, I just hope he doesn't produce or direct.

Chris
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Yes, Chris, but keep in mind also that Schwanaeger and Cameron have done
films together, so there was a bond there. If Arnold did intend on
potentially a role in POTA's, he may not have the same intense interest
without Cameron's involvement. If that is the case, then there goes
another money name. Keep in mind that the film has been in development
hell for some years now... on again, off again. It seems to me that
Fox may not be sure about the success of POTA's, or they'd have moved
faster a whole lot sooner. The new Star Wars release will, of course,
inspire renewed interest in big budget sci-fi, so if any time is the
right time... it's probably coming up. I suppose it's up in the air
again, for the moment. We'll have to wait it out.

I do believe that Fox would not attempt a POTA's remake unless they went
"all the way," big budget and high production values. As the film
series spun toward it's end, it's obvious that they'd lost interest in
it artistically, thus the lower and lower budgets. The films still made
money, yet they weren't willing to borrow that much against it.

Let's hope that if the move forward, it is because someone with a
potentially equal name and bankability will become attached to it --
though Cameron was, perhaps, a pretty powerful choice. You know he'd
have gone that extra mile to ensure it continues his reign as a top
producer/writer/director, and coming down from Titanic means he's
looking for something that can match or surpass. He has to be, it's
only natural.

JP




BlakerG@... wrote:

>
> I agree with the JP guy, Cameron is a really hot producer right now and his
> name would really help out movie, so the movie might be canceled since the
> main guy in charge just quit. But on the other hand Schwanaeger has a hand in
> this so he might keep it going, I just hope he doesn't produce or direct.
>
> Chris

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Darn right!!! Sounds too much like Seaquest to me.
I like B-5's creator, Michael J. Strazynski's slogan...
"No robots or cute kids...ever!!!"

Seriously, though...I hope the thing gets back on the right track and gets
made in our lifetime...otherwise, we may have to go into suspended animation
for 2000 years and wake up with the apes to watch it. (Just don't put me in
Stewart's chamber!)

Alexander
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In a message dated 12/12/98 12:00:38 AM, jpctqm@... wrote:

<<You know he'd
have gone that extra mile to ensure it continues his reign as a top
producer/writer/director, and coming down from Titanic means he's
looking for something that can match or surpass. He has to be, it's
only natural.>>

That's right...I wonder though if Cameron has reached his appex? Many writers
and directors hit that big tamale only once in a lifetime. Only time will
tell if he can strike gold twice. Arnold really does have a good relationship
with Cameron and I once heard him say that the only way he would do T-3 is
with Cameron at the helm. It's possible Arnold may drop out as well. Again,
we'll just have to wait and see. Dang! And we were soooo close!!!

P.S. Welcome aboard JP!!!

Alexander
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I guess I'm in the minority, but I think the concept of Cameron leaving
as a good thing, and the idea of Arnold dropping out is even better.

I guess I'd go see a remake, but I think they kind of nailed the movie
the first time, don't you?


STLoser@... wrote:

>
> In a message dated 12/12/98 12:00:38 AM, jpctqm@... wrote:
>
> <<You know he'd
> have gone that extra mile to ensure it continues his reign as a top
> producer/writer/director, and coming down from Titanic means he's
> looking for something that can match or surpass. He has to be, it's
> only natural.>>
>
> That's right...I wonder though if Cameron has reached his appex? Many writers
> and directors hit that big tamale only once in a lifetime. Only time will
> tell if he can strike gold twice. Arnold really does have a good relationship
> with Cameron and I once heard him say that the only way he would do T-3 is
> with Cameron at the helm. It's possible Arnold may drop out as well. Again,
> we'll just have to wait and see. Dang! And we were soooo close!!!
>
> P.S. Welcome aboard JP!!!
>
> Alexander
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> [Image]
>
> Free Web-based e-mail groups -- www.eGroups.com

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From Cinescape Online:

Arnold Unaware of 'Apes’?
In an attempt to follow-up on yesterday's blockbuster scoop that
James Cameron is now off the Planet of the Apes remake due to
creative differences with Fox, yours truly put in a call to Arnold
Schwarzengger's reps at William Morris. In case you've been
living in a cave, the Muscled One has been linked to the remake
of the Apes on and off for the last five years or so. Could
Arnold's commitment to Apes be shaken by James Cameron's
leaving the project? That's what I was attempting to learn. Much
to my surprise, one of Schwarzenegger's reps tersely informed me
that they aren't even aware of a Planet of the Apes remake at Fox.
Strange...
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>I guess I'm in the minority, but I think the concept of Cameron leaving
>as a good thing, and the idea of Arnold dropping out is even better.
>
>I guess I'd go see a remake, but I think they kind of nailed the movie
>the first time, don't you?

Nope, I agree with you 100% -- i think having Arnold in it forces the plot
into a box that there is no escape from. Getting his big-lug-of-a-self out
of the picture would be one of the best things to happen. I could see a
variety of other actors in the movie . . . but Arnold is bigger than an Ape
-- and that would just plain NOT WORK . . . so I hope he follows his buddy
out the door . . . and maybe something better will come out of it!

- Armando



_____________

Is it only me . . . or do all of you get two copies of EVERY email that is
posted to the list? Moderator, please investigate . . .

- Armando (busy with his fuzzy friends and no time for duplicate emails!)



_____________

Yeah there seem to be duplicates of some of the email I get also.

Chris
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Hey,

I haven't been exactly for the remake either. I'm not anti-6th
movie, against it, but I don't see the point really. It was a great
series, that cut down near the end. Why make it worse after so many
years? I remember seeing a magazine article, which I cut out and still
have, from when I was really young, that talked about a remake. I, for
one, don't think it will ever happen, and it's most likely for the best.



Ross (Dr. Milo)

Smoothness is all....

The attitude of "I don't want a remake" seems quite odd for ape fans.
Seems to me, even if it isn't good -- it can't change the way we feel
about the original(s), can it? And, today with the improved special
effects and the [outlandish] big budgets... well, how can it be anything
but great? The only thing that would be a bomb would be if they tried
to actually REMAKE the movie. I think they need to use the ape concept,
the character types, and the attitude of the original film... but make
it totally different.

On to another subject, does anyone know how many people are subscribed
to this email list?

Also, in case some of you have not seen them (but you probably have),
the new Hasbro ape dolls (12" figures) are in the stores --set of
three-- and a few weeks ago, I purchase a POTA's t-shirt at a video
store. The artwork on it is incrediable --- I took a digital photo of
it and would send out to the email list, but I'm not sure if it's
appropriate to send out graphics here. Does anyone want to see what the
artwork looks like? Either everyone say GO FOR IT as a group and I will
send out through this list, or I'd be happy to send it individually. If
you are into POTA's, you outta see this t-shirt because it's probably
the best art I've ever seen on one of these things! :)

Oh, they've got baseball caps and shot glasses with POTA's on them out
too! Merchandising has already begun! ha ha

Later,
JP
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