Wow, sounds great!
I just want to say that remaking the apes movie is the next best thing since
baked apple pie, and I hope that you are given some involment in it.
Questions: How are you spending your time these days?
Do you still see much of the other actors?

If you see Richrad, let him know that we're 100 % behind him on this.
Best wishes.
Alex

----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Krueger <williejoe@...>
To: <pota@egroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2000 11:55 PM
Subject: [pota] Guest starring Natalie Trundy


> Hi folks! My pal Natalie Trundy is here Friday and Saturday and said she'd
> be happy to answer questions from the group. The widow of Arthur Jacobs
and
> star of the 4 "Ape" sequels (as mutant, ape and human), Natalie also was
the
> one who originally found the book and passed it on to Arthur. Send in
those
> questions and messages!- - - Jeff Krueger
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Alexander Ruiz" <byruiz@...>
> To: <pota@egroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, June 02, 2000 12:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [pota] POTA Archives Binder
>
>
> > Thanks for the info.
> >
> > Alex
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Brian Dumont <afryt4u@...>
> > To: <pota@egroups.com>
> > Sent: Friday, June 02, 2000 1:20 PM
> > Subject: Re: [pota] POTA Archives Binder
> >
> >
> > > The archives Collector Card series was put out by Inkworks (was it)
last
> > year?
> > > You can find full sets minus the "chase cards" on eBay from time to
> time.
> > > Dealers are constantly selling the chase cards seperately on eBay as
> well.
> > >
> > > B
> > >
> > > Alexander Ruiz wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hey Brian, what is this archives all about?
> > > > So how I miss out on it.
> > > >
> > > > Alex
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Brian Dumont <afryt4u@...>
> > > > To: <pota@egroups.com>
> > > > Sent: Friday, June 02, 2000 10:49 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: [pota] POTA Archives Binder
> > > >
> > > > > Here it is Alan, as promised.
> > > > >
> > > > > Brian
> > > > >
> > > > > Alan Maxwell wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Brian Dumont <afryt4u@...> wrote:
> > > > > > >I've got one. I'll take a foto and e-mail to you if you like.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yeah, that'd be cool. Thanks.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Alan
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > Get 2 FREE books at eHarlequin.com.Indulge in our romantic
books,
> > > > > > recipes and getaway ideas. Take your romantic escape today to
> > > > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/4638/9/_/19617/_/959932976/
> > > > >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > @Backup- Protect and Access your data any time, any where on the
> net.
> > > > > Try @Backup FREE and recieve 300 points from mypoints.com Install
> now:
> > > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/4873/9/_/19617/_/959960994/
> > > >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
> > > > ----
> > > >
> > >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > Failed tests, classes skipped, forgotten locker combinations.
> > > > Remember the good 'ol days
> > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/4053/9/_/19617/_/959968631/
> > >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Was the salesman clueless? Productopia has the answers.
> > > http://click.egroups.com/1/4633/9/_/19617/_/959969982/
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Old school buds here:
> > http://click.egroups.com/1/4057/9/_/19617/_/959972674/
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Never lose a file again. Protect yourself from accidental deletes,
> overwrites, and viruses with @Backup.
> Try @Backup it's easy, it's safe, and it's FREE!
> Click here to receive 300 MyPoints just for trying @Backup.
> http://click.egroups.com/1/4936/9/_/19617/_/960004378/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

Hi Natalie,

Greetings from London. (Natalie... Do me a favour, get Jeff to read
this to you, aloud in a Dick Van Dyke/Mary Poppins manner!)

Okay, the question is:

When I see documentaries on TV that deal with Special effects I can't
help but notice that without the help of proper lighting and other
post production "polish," Masks look like lifeless rubber and models
look like toys.

Even now, after 30 odd years the thing that strikes me most about the
Ape movies is that you never once fail to believe you are watching
real, living, breathing talking apes!

Were the appliances and the actors playing apes as convincing between
takes (that is to say, without even trying) or, once the cameras
stopped rolling, did they simply become rubber masks?

Cor blimey old girl! ta ta for now. (A bit of authentic London dialect for you)

Dave B.

Hello Natalie. It's a pleasure to meet you, so to speak. How did you come
across the original novel? Do you have a particular favorite among the POTA
films? Although I don't believe you had any screen time with him, what is
Ricardo Montalban like? And how was it working with Bradford Dillman? Thanks
for your time. Hope to see you involved in the remake. Take care, John.

Thanks for the great questions! Natalie is still sleeping right now, but
she'll be here all day. Feel free to send in more, repeats welcome.- - -
Jeff Krueger

----- Original Message -----
From: <JSe3689836@...>
To: <pota@egroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2000 7:25 AM
Subject: Re: [pota] Guest starring Natalie Trundy


> Hello Natalie. It's a pleasure to meet you, so to speak. How did you come
> across the original novel? Do you have a particular favorite among the
POTA
> films? Although I don't believe you had any screen time with him, what is
> Ricardo Montalban like? And how was it working with Bradford Dillman?
Thanks
> for your time. Hope to see you involved in the remake. Take care, John.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Get 2 FREE books at eHarlequin.com.Indulge in our romantic books,
> recipes and getaway ideas. Take your romantic escape today to
> http://click.egroups.com/1/4638/9/_/19617/_/960042354/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

Hi Natalie,
I have another question, as we have all heard rumors on the release of
Planet of the Apes on DVD, ( A dream come true) will you or any other actors
be making any commentaries on any of the Ape films. The commentary feature
on DVD is where the actors give there comments during the movie, one of many
features on DVD movies.

Best wishes.
Alex

----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Krueger <williejoe@...>
To: <pota@egroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2000 12:39 PM
Subject: [pota] Sweet Dreams


> Thanks for the great questions! Natalie is still sleeping right now, but
> she'll be here all day. Feel free to send in more, repeats welcome.- - -
> Jeff Krueger
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <JSe3689836@...>
> To: <pota@egroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2000 7:25 AM
> Subject: Re: [pota] Guest starring Natalie Trundy
>
>
> > Hello Natalie. It's a pleasure to meet you, so to speak. How did you
come
> > across the original novel? Do you have a particular favorite among the
> POTA
> > films? Although I don't believe you had any screen time with him, what
is
> > Ricardo Montalban like? And how was it working with Bradford Dillman?
> Thanks
> > for your time. Hope to see you involved in the remake. Take care, John.
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Get 2 FREE books at eHarlequin.com.Indulge in our romantic books,
> > recipes and getaway ideas. Take your romantic escape today to
> > http://click.egroups.com/1/4638/9/_/19617/_/960042354/
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Best friends, most artistic, class clown Find 'em here:
> http://click.egroups.com/1/4054/9/_/19617/_/960050282/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

Hi Natalie,

If we imagine for just one moment that YOU had total control over
every aspect of the remake who would you cast? What changes might you
make and would there be a part for any crazy Englishmen?



Big thanks to Jeff for making this all possible.


Dave B.

O.K. I don't what to be a hog here, so this will be my last question.
Natalie, what are thoughts on Tim Burton doing the remake?

Best wishes.
Alex

----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Krueger <williejoe@...>
To: <pota@egroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2000 11:55 PM
Subject: [pota] Guest starring Natalie Trundy


> Hi folks! My pal Natalie Trundy is here Friday and Saturday and said she'd
> be happy to answer questions from the group. The widow of Arthur Jacobs
and
> star of the 4 "Ape" sequels (as mutant, ape and human), Natalie also was
the
> one who originally found the book and passed it on to Arthur. Send in
those
> questions and messages!- - - Jeff Krueger
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Alexander Ruiz" <byruiz@...>
> To: <pota@egroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, June 02, 2000 12:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [pota] POTA Archives Binder
>
>
> > Thanks for the info.
> >
> > Alex
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Brian Dumont <afryt4u@...>
> > To: <pota@egroups.com>
> > Sent: Friday, June 02, 2000 1:20 PM
> > Subject: Re: [pota] POTA Archives Binder
> >
> >
> > > The archives Collector Card series was put out by Inkworks (was it)
last
> > year?
> > > You can find full sets minus the "chase cards" on eBay from time to
> time.
> > > Dealers are constantly selling the chase cards seperately on eBay as
> well.
> > >
> > > B
> > >
> > > Alexander Ruiz wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hey Brian, what is this archives all about?
> > > > So how I miss out on it.
> > > >
> > > > Alex
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Brian Dumont <afryt4u@...>
> > > > To: <pota@egroups.com>
> > > > Sent: Friday, June 02, 2000 10:49 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: [pota] POTA Archives Binder
> > > >
> > > > > Here it is Alan, as promised.
> > > > >
> > > > > Brian
> > > > >
> > > > > Alan Maxwell wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Brian Dumont <afryt4u@...> wrote:
> > > > > > >I've got one. I'll take a foto and e-mail to you if you like.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yeah, that'd be cool. Thanks.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Alan
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > Get 2 FREE books at eHarlequin.com.Indulge in our romantic
books,
> > > > > > recipes and getaway ideas. Take your romantic escape today to
> > > > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/4638/9/_/19617/_/959932976/
> > > > >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > @Backup- Protect and Access your data any time, any where on the
> net.
> > > > > Try @Backup FREE and recieve 300 points from mypoints.com Install
> now:
> > > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/4873/9/_/19617/_/959960994/
> > > >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
> > > > ----
> > > >
> > >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > Failed tests, classes skipped, forgotten locker combinations.
> > > > Remember the good 'ol days
> > > > http://click.egroups.com/1/4053/9/_/19617/_/959968631/
> > >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Was the salesman clueless? Productopia has the answers.
> > > http://click.egroups.com/1/4633/9/_/19617/_/959969982/
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Old school buds here:
> > http://click.egroups.com/1/4057/9/_/19617/_/959972674/
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Never lose a file again. Protect yourself from accidental deletes,
> overwrites, and viruses with @Backup.
> Try @Backup it's easy, it's safe, and it's FREE!
> Click here to receive 300 MyPoints just for trying @Backup.
> http://click.egroups.com/1/4936/9/_/19617/_/960004378/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

OK, Natalie is up and taking nourishment. She has absolutely zero interest
in computers, so I'm asking her the questions and then typing them in. She's
very flattered by the personal sentiments and amazed by "Apes"' big
comeback.

ADAMI: Natalie says God bless you and your wife. She says Arthur Jacobs
wanted to do an "Apes" TV show but no specific ideas were developed. He died
shortly after "Battle" was released.

MICHAEL: Natalie said she'd like to be involved in the "Apes" remake some
way but hasn't been approached (yet). It's basically out of her hands, so
they're not consulting her on scripts or anything. She very pleased her
friend Richard Zanuck is involved, but is still kinda cynical about the
enterprise. She was offended by the successful Eddie Murphy remake of "Dr.
Dolittle" and isn't enthralled by current Hollywood. Ironically, Fox's
announced big summer films for 2001 are "Apes" and "Dr. Dolittle 2", both
originating from her husband's productions. Most fans have more "Apes"
memorabilia than she does. When she sold her and Arthur's house in 1984 (10
years after his death), she donated his extensive collection to Loyola
Maramount University in Los Angeles, where the public is welcome to see it.
The Lawgiver statue used in the films was in her backyard until 1999 when
she sold it. She says there are only 2 actual Lawgiver statues and hers was
the only one used (the other was created specially for Sammy Davis Jr. , a
friend of her and Arthur and a big "Apes" fan. When he died in 1990 it was
sold.

DAVE: Natalie says the ape makeup was "absolutely" photo-realistic and I
can vouch for that. I've seen recreations from "Ape Mania" and also Bill
Blake (Bill also put me in ape makeup) and it looks very real in person.
That makes sense because they didn't always have time to make the lighting
perfect, etc. Maybe Brian can shed more light (so to speak) on this topic.
As for who she would cast in the remake, she has no idea but thinks Harrison
Ford would be perfect if they need a big star.

ALEX: Currently Natalie is retired from the business. Arthur left her with
the money to pursue her interests. One of the most important things to her
is her humanitarian work , especially in India (she's worked with the late
Mother Teresa). She's a trained medic and has worked with lepers and other
unfortunates. Natalie didn't throw money at problems, she loves to travel to
trouble spots and help out. As for "Ape" actors, she's good friends with Don
Pedro Colley ("Beneath", Linda Harrison and Bradford Dillman. She knew Roddy
well, and showed me some olde time Christmas cards he used to send.
Actually, she's come to know Booth Colman through me. Yes, she's 100% behind
Zanuck on the new movie, too. As for the DVDs she doesn't know anything
about commentary tracks, etc. (she's not even sure what DVD is). As for
myself, I've heard someone at Fox say the upcoming DVDs won't be anamorphic
(is that the word?), and is their last DVD that won't be. That means these
probably won't be the optimum DVD "Apes" experience and down the line better
ones will probably be available, so they'll need bells and whistles later.
But it might be worth it just to have "Behind the POTA" in that format! Tim
Burton: Natalie thinks he's talented but doesn't really have an opinion on
him. She liked "Edward Scissorhands".

JOHN: Natalie found the galleys of Pierre Boulle's novel because she's
fluent in French. She doesn't remember offhand where she got it, but she
liked it and translated it for Arthur. I've read a quote where Arthur said
he got it from a literary agent but Natalie says that's hogwash. Yes, she
was in scenes with Ricardo Montalban in "Escape". She was also asked by
Arthur to take a pay cut in "Conquest" so Ricardo could have more money. She
calls Ricardo "an angel of a man". (Wasn't he great in 'Behind the POTA'?).
She's known Bradford Dillman since she was 12 and says she "loved him",
"adored him". Unfortunately, his wife is having a rough time battling
cancer. Her favorite "Apes" film is "Escape", though personally she prefers
lighter fare (she loves musicals and TV detctive shows). Her favorite movies
by her husband were "Goodbye Mr. Chips" and "Dr. Dolittle". In fact,
"Dolittle"is very personal to her because Arthur had two of the songs
written "for her" ("I Think I like You" and "Something in your Smile") and
she first heard them when he proposed to her.

I think that covers it. Send more.. .

----- Original Message -----
From: <JSe3689836@...>
To: <pota@egroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2000 7:25 AM
Subject: Re: [pota] Guest starring Natalie Trundy


> Hello Natalie. It's a pleasure to meet you, so to speak. How did you come
> across the original novel? Do you have a particular favorite among the
POTA
> films? Although I don't believe you had any screen time with him, what is
> Ricardo Montalban like? And how was it working with Bradford Dillman?
Thanks
> for your time. Hope to see you involved in the remake. Take care, John.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Get 2 FREE books at eHarlequin.com.Indulge in our romantic books,
> recipes and getaway ideas. Take your romantic escape today to
> http://click.egroups.com/1/4638/9/_/19617/_/960042354/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

Hi Natalie, Hi Jeff,

One more question then it's time for some hot chocolate and I'm off to bed...

Since the last episode of the Apes TV show aired what Ape related
"events" or "productions" does Natalie feel have best managed to keep
the spirit of the Ape phenomenon alive? (And please don't say
Spaceballs!)

Dave B.

PS.
(I just asked my six year old son what he thinks of POTA and he
said... "Too much fur"... There's something deep and meaningful in
there somewhere.(?)

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Dave Ballard

To: pota@egroups.com

Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2000 1:57 PM

Subject: Re: [pota] Guest starring Natalie Trundy

Hi Natalie, Hi Jeff,

One more question then it's time for some hot chocolate and I'm off to bed...

Since the last episode of the Apes TV show aired what Ape related "events" or "productions" does Natalie feel have best managed to keep the spirit of the Ape phenomenon alive? (And please don't say Spaceballs!)

Dave B.

PS.
(I just asked my six year old son what he thinks of POTA and he said... "Too much fur"... There's something deep and meaningful in there somewhere.(?)

<.html

.html Jeff and Natalie,

thank you very much!

Adami

Jack Krueger escreveu:

  OK, Natalie is up and taking nourishment. She has absolutely zero interest
in computers, so I'm asking her the questions and then typing them in. She's
very flattered by the personal sentiments and amazed by "Apes"' big
comeback.

  ADAMI: Natalie says God bless you and your wife. She says Arthur Jacobs
wanted to do an "Apes" TV show but no specific ideas were developed. He died
shortly after "Battle" was released.

  MICHAEL:  Natalie said she'd like to be involved in the "Apes" remake some
way but hasn't been approached (yet). It's basically out of her hands, so
they're not consulting her on scripts or anything. She very pleased her
friend Richard Zanuck is involved, but is still kinda cynical about the
enterprise. She was offended by the successful Eddie Murphy remake of "Dr.
Dolittle" and isn't enthralled by current Hollywood. Ironically, Fox's
announced big summer films for 2001 are "Apes" and "Dr. Dolittle 2", both
originating from her husband's productions. Most fans have more "Apes"
memorabilia than she does. When she sold her and Arthur's house in 1984 (10
years after his death), she donated his extensive collection to Loyola
Maramount University in Los Angeles, where the public is welcome to see it.
The Lawgiver statue used in the films was in her backyard until 1999 when
she sold it. She says there are only 2 actual Lawgiver statues and hers was
the only one used (the other was created specially for Sammy Davis Jr. , a
friend of her and Arthur and a big "Apes" fan. When he died in 1990 it was
sold.

DAVE:  Natalie says the ape makeup was "absolutely" photo-realistic and I
can vouch for that. I've seen recreations from "Ape Mania" and also Bill
Blake (Bill also put me in ape makeup) and it looks very real in person.
That makes sense because they didn't always have time to make the lighting
perfect, etc. Maybe Brian can shed more light (so to speak) on this topic.
As for who she would cast in the remake, she has no idea but thinks Harrison
Ford would be perfect if they need a big star.

ALEX: Currently Natalie is retired from the business. Arthur left her with
the money to pursue her interests. One of the most important things to her
is her humanitarian work , especially in India (she's worked with the late
Mother Teresa). She's a trained medic and has worked with lepers and other
unfortunates. Natalie didn't throw money at problems, she loves to travel to
trouble spots and help out. As for "Ape" actors, she's good friends with Don
Pedro Colley ("Beneath", Linda Harrison and Bradford Dillman. She knew Roddy
well, and showed me some olde time Christmas cards he used to send.
Actually, she's come to know Booth Colman through me. Yes, she's 100% behind
Zanuck on the new movie, too.  As for the DVDs she doesn't know anything
about commentary tracks, etc. (she's not even sure what DVD is). As for
myself, I've heard someone at Fox say the upcoming DVDs won't be anamorphic
(is that the word?), and is their last DVD that won't be. That means these
probably won't be the optimum DVD "Apes" experience and down the line better
ones will probably be available, so they'll need bells and whistles later.
But it might be worth it just to have "Behind the POTA" in that format! Tim
Burton: Natalie thinks he's talented but  doesn't really have an opinion on
him. She liked "Edward Scissorhands".

JOHN: Natalie found the galleys of Pierre Boulle's novel because she's
fluent in French. She doesn't remember offhand where she got it, but she
liked it and translated it for Arthur. I've read a quote where Arthur said
he got it from a literary agent but Natalie says that's hogwash. Yes, she
was in scenes with Ricardo Montalban in "Escape". She was also asked by
Arthur to take a pay cut in "Conquest" so Ricardo could have more money. She
calls Ricardo "an angel of a man". (Wasn't he great in 'Behind the POTA'?).
She's known Bradford Dillman since she was 12 and says she "loved him",
"adored him". Unfortunately, his wife is having a rough time battling
cancer. Her favorite "Apes" film is "Escape", though personally she prefers
lighter fare (she loves musicals and TV detctive shows). Her favorite movies
by her husband were "Goodbye Mr. Chips" and "Dr. Dolittle". In fact,
"Dolittle"is very personal to her because Arthur had two of the songs
written "for her" ("I Think I like You" and "Something in your Smile") and
she first heard them when he proposed to her.

  I think that covers it. Send more.. .
----- Original Message -----
From: <JSe3689836@...>
To: <pota@egroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2000 7:25 AM
Subject: Re: [pota] Guest starring Natalie Trundy

> Hello Natalie. It's a pleasure to meet you, so to speak. How did you come
> across the original novel? Do you have a particular favorite among the
POTA
> films? Although I don't believe you had any screen time with him, what is
> Ricardo Montalban like? And how was it working with Bradford Dillman?
Thanks
> for your time. Hope to see you involved in the remake. Take care, John.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Get 2 FREE books at eHarlequin.com.Indulge in our romantic books,
> recipes and getaway ideas. Take your romantic escape today to
> http://click.egroups.com/1/4638/9/_/19617/_/960042354/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Get 2 FREE books at eHarlequin.com.Indulge in our romantic books,
recipes and getaway ideas. Take your romantic escape today to
http://click.egroups.com/1/4638/9/_/19617/_/960061982/
------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

<.html

Thank you for your replies Natalie, and thank you Jeff for making this all
possible. I'm right now working on my POTA project for the internet, keeping
the Apes spirit alive at: www.prophecysite.com

God bless you Natalie, and God bless Arthur at his side.
Alex

----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Krueger <williejoe@...>
To: <pota@egroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2000 3:55 PM
Subject: [pota] Trundy, Take One


> OK, Natalie is up and taking nourishment. She has absolutely zero
interest
> in computers, so I'm asking her the questions and then typing them in.
She's
> very flattered by the personal sentiments and amazed by "Apes"' big
> comeback.
>
> ADAMI: Natalie says God bless you and your wife. She says Arthur Jacobs
> wanted to do an "Apes" TV show but no specific ideas were developed. He
died
> shortly after "Battle" was released.
>
> MICHAEL: Natalie said she'd like to be involved in the "Apes" remake
some
> way but hasn't been approached (yet). It's basically out of her hands, so
> they're not consulting her on scripts or anything. She very pleased her
> friend Richard Zanuck is involved, but is still kinda cynical about the
> enterprise. She was offended by the successful Eddie Murphy remake of "Dr.
> Dolittle" and isn't enthralled by current Hollywood. Ironically, Fox's
> announced big summer films for 2001 are "Apes" and "Dr. Dolittle 2", both
> originating from her husband's productions. Most fans have more "Apes"
> memorabilia than she does. When she sold her and Arthur's house in 1984
(10
> years after his death), she donated his extensive collection to Loyola
> Maramount University in Los Angeles, where the public is welcome to see
it.
> The Lawgiver statue used in the films was in her backyard until 1999 when
> she sold it. She says there are only 2 actual Lawgiver statues and hers
was
> the only one used (the other was created specially for Sammy Davis Jr. , a
> friend of her and Arthur and a big "Apes" fan. When he died in 1990 it was
> sold.
>
> DAVE: Natalie says the ape makeup was "absolutely" photo-realistic and I
> can vouch for that. I've seen recreations from "Ape Mania" and also Bill
> Blake (Bill also put me in ape makeup) and it looks very real in person.
> That makes sense because they didn't always have time to make the lighting
> perfect, etc. Maybe Brian can shed more light (so to speak) on this topic.
> As for who she would cast in the remake, she has no idea but thinks
Harrison
> Ford would be perfect if they need a big star.
>
> ALEX: Currently Natalie is retired from the business. Arthur left her with
> the money to pursue her interests. One of the most important things to her
> is her humanitarian work , especially in India (she's worked with the late
> Mother Teresa). She's a trained medic and has worked with lepers and other
> unfortunates. Natalie didn't throw money at problems, she loves to travel
to
> trouble spots and help out. As for "Ape" actors, she's good friends with
Don
> Pedro Colley ("Beneath", Linda Harrison and Bradford Dillman. She knew
Roddy
> well, and showed me some olde time Christmas cards he used to send.
> Actually, she's come to know Booth Colman through me. Yes, she's 100%
behind
> Zanuck on the new movie, too. As for the DVDs she doesn't know anything
> about commentary tracks, etc. (she's not even sure what DVD is). As for
> myself, I've heard someone at Fox say the upcoming DVDs won't be
anamorphic
> (is that the word?), and is their last DVD that won't be. That means these
> probably won't be the optimum DVD "Apes" experience and down the line
better
> ones will probably be available, so they'll need bells and whistles later.
> But it might be worth it just to have "Behind the POTA" in that format!
Tim
> Burton: Natalie thinks he's talented but doesn't really have an opinion
on
> him. She liked "Edward Scissorhands".
>
> JOHN: Natalie found the galleys of Pierre Boulle's novel because she's
> fluent in French. She doesn't remember offhand where she got it, but she
> liked it and translated it for Arthur. I've read a quote where Arthur said
> he got it from a literary agent but Natalie says that's hogwash. Yes, she
> was in scenes with Ricardo Montalban in "Escape". She was also asked by
> Arthur to take a pay cut in "Conquest" so Ricardo could have more money.
She
> calls Ricardo "an angel of a man". (Wasn't he great in 'Behind the
POTA'?).
> She's known Bradford Dillman since she was 12 and says she "loved him",
> "adored him". Unfortunately, his wife is having a rough time battling
> cancer. Her favorite "Apes" film is "Escape", though personally she
prefers
> lighter fare (she loves musicals and TV detctive shows). Her favorite
movies
> by her husband were "Goodbye Mr. Chips" and "Dr. Dolittle". In fact,
> "Dolittle"is very personal to her because Arthur had two of the songs
> written "for her" ("I Think I like You" and "Something in your Smile") and
> she first heard them when he proposed to her.
>
> I think that covers it. Send more.. .
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <JSe3689836@...>
> To: <pota@egroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2000 7:25 AM
> Subject: Re: [pota] Guest starring Natalie Trundy
>
>
> > Hello Natalie. It's a pleasure to meet you, so to speak. How did you
come
> > across the original novel? Do you have a particular favorite among the
> POTA
> > films? Although I don't believe you had any screen time with him, what
is
> > Ricardo Montalban like? And how was it working with Bradford Dillman?
> Thanks
> > for your time. Hope to see you involved in the remake. Take care, John.
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Get 2 FREE books at eHarlequin.com.Indulge in our romantic books,
> > recipes and getaway ideas. Take your romantic escape today to
> > http://click.egroups.com/1/4638/9/_/19617/_/960042354/
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Get 2 FREE books at eHarlequin.com.Indulge in our romantic books,
> recipes and getaway ideas. Take your romantic escape today to
> http://click.egroups.com/1/4638/9/_/19617/_/960061982/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

Hey, Natalie. I don't post much to the group, even though I created it, but I
just wanted to say I;m very sorry if any of this is bringing up sad memories
because of your husband's passing away. Just from your answers it is more
then apparent you love him very much, and I wanted to express with deepest
gratitude, how happy I am that your answering our questions.

Take Care of yourself

-David Pasco
AKA Caesar

Hey, let's not turn this into a downer. Natalie is glad that fans are
looking forward to the remake, life goes on. She's not dismissing it out of
hand. Natalie says that Arthur would be thrilled with the interest all these
years later. It's a vindication of his faith in it years ago. It sounds like
Fox is treating this thing with kid gloves and I know Zanuck is. If it's as
good as everyone hopes it is it'll be a testament to Arthur and Roddy and
all the others who are gone. Thanks for all your concern, truly. Natalie
will still be here for awhile if anyone has more questions. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: <JSe3689836@...>
To: <pota@egroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2000 7:25 AM
Subject: Re: [pota] Guest starring Natalie Trundy


> Hello Natalie. It's a pleasure to meet you, so to speak. How did you come
> across the original novel? Do you have a particular favorite among the
POTA
> films? Although I don't believe you had any screen time with him, what is
> Ricardo Montalban like? And how was it working with Bradford Dillman?
Thanks
> for your time. Hope to see you involved in the remake. Take care, John.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Get 2 FREE books at eHarlequin.com.Indulge in our romantic books,
> recipes and getaway ideas. Take your romantic escape today to
> http://click.egroups.com/1/4638/9/_/19617/_/960042354/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

Hello-

Just found out about the Q&A session and I don't know if there's still
time to ask questions. But on the off chance there is, I was wondering if
Natalie (or any of the other actors who portrayed the mutants in BENEATH)
was given specific instructions on how their characters should be, what
the mutant society was supposed to be like, and so forth. Were the actors
given any "background info" to work with?
Also, how is it that three of the mutants have names but they were never
actually used in the film? Were there more scenes featuring these
characters that somehow never made it into the final cut?
God Bless, and all the best to you Natalie! :-)


Chris Lawless
____

Attachments :

.html <.html

Hi Jeff and Natalie,
Firstly, thanks Jeff for arranging this "virtually-live" chat session. The
questions have been great, as have the answers.
My question to Natalie is: As you played such an instrumental part in bringing
APES from novel to the big screen and appeared in four of the movies, where you
offered a role in the original film?
Thanks,
KEN

Speaking of mutants, why on EARTH did they drop those scary blue contact
lenses from the mutant's design? The makeup test footage was really
bice looking.

In a message dated 6/3/2000 7:12:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

<< Hey, let's not turn this into a downer. Natalie is glad that fans are
looking forward to the remake, life goes on. She's not dismissing it out of
hand. Natalie says that Arthur would be thrilled with the interest all these
years later. It's a vindication of his faith in it years ago. It sounds like
Fox is treating this thing with kid gloves and I know Zanuck is. If it's as
good as everyone hopes it is it'll be a testament to Arthur and Roddy and
all the others who are gone. Thanks for all your concern, truly. Natalie
will still be here for awhile if anyone has more questions. - - - Jeff >>
Natalie, which character was your favorite to play?

.html <.html

OK, here's some more:

CHRIS: Natalie says they had no instructions on playing the mutants,
there really wasn't time, with the makeup and all. She also doesn't know why
they dropped some of the names (Ongoro became "Negro", Victor Buono became
"Fat Man", etc.). She was out of the loop for those kind of decisions. Don
Pedro Colley, who played Ongoro/Negro, once told me they always referred to
his character's name and he didn't know they simplified it to Negro until he
saw the end credits of the film (the characters names are never used in the
movie). He figures it was easier to put labels on them then giving the
audience credit enough to use the real names.

ALEX: Natalie didn't have a problem wearing the makeup, but taking it off
was "agony". They used acetone and a hair dryer on "cold". And they had to
wash their hair every time. It was "exhausting". Natalie's situation as a
mutant was unique in that her costume was so heavy she couldn't sit down and
they had a big board behind her so she could lean. Besides "Beneath" and
"Escape" she played Caesar's girlfriend/wife Lisa in "Conquest" and
"Battle'. That's quite appropriate: she was married to the series' prime
mover in real life (Arthur Jacobs) and it's most identifiable icon (Roddy
McDowell) on screen.

PHILIP: Natalie didn't even know about the blue contact lenses for the
mutants in the test footage, so shedoesn't know why they weren't used. But
here's a contact lense story: on "Conquest" she had to wear brown contact
lenses because she was a chimp (the only one who got away without them was
Kim Hunter as Zira, whose blue eyes they decided was a mutation). Now,
Natalie's eyes are gorgeous but they've given her trouble her whole life.
The contact lenses were causing her great pain so half-way through
"Conquest" they got rid of them. So, for half of "Conquest she has brown
eyes, half of it blue. For "Battle" she had her own blue eyes but tried to
keep her gaze down.

KEN: She wasn't offered a role in the first film. After she married Arthur,
she put her own career aside mostly , and Arthur didn't want her to act. She
was the voice of the parrot (uncredited) in "Dr. Dolittle", she has a scene
in his "Huckleberry Finn" and a cameo in "Tom Sawyer". It was writer Paul
Dehn who suggested she act in "Beneath" and after that Arthur started to
warm to the idea. Natalie was often the guinea pig early on when they were
developing the makeups for the first film. She showed me some pictures of
Halloween 1967 where Arthur was made up as "Dr. Dolittle" and Natalie was
made up as Zira (personally applied by John Chambers!). This was long before
the conception of her character LIsa.

MFLULDER: Natalie says her favorite "Apes" character to play was Stevie in
"Escape", because she's so sympathetic (she's the audience's viewpoint when
Zira and Cornelius are killed). Her favorite role of all was Jane Hinkley
in "The Monte Carlo Story".

Send more questions.

----- Original Message -----
From: <mflulder@...>
To: <pota@egroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2000 6:18 PM
Subject: Re: [pota] Don't worry, be happy


> In a message dated 6/3/2000 7:12:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> williejoe@... writes:
>
> << Hey, let's not turn this into a downer. Natalie is glad that fans are
> looking forward to the remake, life goes on. She's not dismissing it out
of
> hand. Natalie says that Arthur would be thrilled with the interest all
these
> years later. It's a vindication of his faith in it years ago. It sounds
like
> Fox is treating this thing with kid gloves and I know Zanuck is. If it's
as
> good as everyone hopes it is it'll be a testament to Arthur and Roddy and
> all the others who are gone. Thanks for all your concern, truly. Natalie
> will still be here for awhile if anyone has more questions. - - - Jeff >>
> Natalie, which character was your favorite to play?
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Missing old school friends? Find them here:
> http://click.egroups.com/1/4055/9/_/19617/_/960081540/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Alexander Ruiz

To: pota@egroups.com

Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2000 7:21 PM

Subject: [pota] Hi Jeff.

Hi Jeff.

Here is a question for you, is there any way that you can provide me with those Mego T.V. commercials, along with any other rare footage of POTA, interviews and so on.

 

It would be great to provide them on the net for all fans to enjoy.

And I can do that on my site.

 

Thanks

Alex

 

P.S. is Natalie gone?

I didn't see any replys on the last set of questions. 

---

choose one... Music Movies Horoscopes Celebrities

---

<.html

I love your site, Alex - not a lot of POTA multimedia online. Give me
your address and I'll copy my tape for you, but as I mentioned, the
quality is so-so.

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Jack Krueger

To: pota@egroups.com

Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2000 10:46 PM

Subject: Re: [pota] Hi Jeff.

Hi Alex

 

  The Mego commercials I have have bad sound so I don't know how good they'd be on the net. I'm in cahoots with Terry Hoknes of the International POTA Fan Club, he's got a website and I do the "Ape Chronicles" magazine for him. I'd want him to be a part of any decision like that. We've been doing this since 1992.- - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----

From: Alexander Ruiz

To: pota@egroups.com

Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2000 7:21 PM

Subject: [pota] Hi Jeff.

Hi Jeff.

Here is a question for you, is there any way that you can provide me with those Mego T.V. commercials, along with any other rare footage of POTA, interviews and so on.

 

It would be great to provide them on the net for all fans to enjoy.

And I can do that on my site.

 

Thanks

Alex

 

P.S. is Natalie gone?

I didn't see any replys on the last set of questions. 

---

choose one... Music Movies Horoscopes Celebrities

---

---

---

<.html

Wow, that is amazing, I should have know that by the voice.
Lisa's voice is the same as Stevie's.
I never would have known, now that's what I call some great acting and some
great makeup.

Thank you Natalie, Thank you Jeff.

Alex

----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Krueger <williejoe@...>
To: <pota@egroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2000 10:26 PM
Subject: [pota] Natalie Trundy, Take Two


> OK, here's some more:
>
> CHRIS: Natalie says they had no instructions on playing the mutants,
> there really wasn't time, with the makeup and all. She also doesn't know
why
> they dropped some of the names (Ongoro became "Negro", Victor Buono became
> "Fat Man", etc.). She was out of the loop for those kind of decisions. Don
> Pedro Colley, who played Ongoro/Negro, once told me they always referred
to
> his character's name and he didn't know they simplified it to Negro until
he
> saw the end credits of the film (the characters names are never used in
the
> movie). He figures it was easier to put labels on them then giving the
> audience credit enough to use the real names.
>
> ALEX: Natalie didn't have a problem wearing the makeup, but taking it
off
> was "agony". They used acetone and a hair dryer on "cold". And they had to
> wash their hair every time. It was "exhausting". Natalie's situation as a
> mutant was unique in that her costume was so heavy she couldn't sit down
and
> they had a big board behind her so she could lean. Besides "Beneath" and
> "Escape" she played Caesar's girlfriend/wife Lisa in "Conquest" and
> "Battle'. That's quite appropriate: she was married to the series' prime
> mover in real life (Arthur Jacobs) and it's most identifiable icon (Roddy
> McDowell) on screen.
>
> PHILIP: Natalie didn't even know about the blue contact lenses for the
> mutants in the test footage, so shedoesn't know why they weren't used. But
> here's a contact lense story: on "Conquest" she had to wear brown contact
> lenses because she was a chimp (the only one who got away without them was
> Kim Hunter as Zira, whose blue eyes they decided was a mutation). Now,
> Natalie's eyes are gorgeous but they've given her trouble her whole life.
> The contact lenses were causing her great pain so half-way through
> "Conquest" they got rid of them. So, for half of "Conquest she has brown
> eyes, half of it blue. For "Battle" she had her own blue eyes but tried to
> keep her gaze down.
>
> KEN: She wasn't offered a role in the first film. After she married
Arthur,
> she put her own career aside mostly , and Arthur didn't want her to act.
She
> was the voice of the parrot (uncredited) in "Dr. Dolittle", she has a
scene
> in his "Huckleberry Finn" and a cameo in "Tom Sawyer". It was writer Paul
> Dehn who suggested she act in "Beneath" and after that Arthur started to
> warm to the idea. Natalie was often the guinea pig early on when they were
> developing the makeups for the first film. She showed me some pictures of
> Halloween 1967 where Arthur was made up as "Dr. Dolittle" and Natalie was
> made up as Zira (personally applied by John Chambers!). This was long
before
> the conception of her character LIsa.
>
> MFLULDER: Natalie says her favorite "Apes" character to play was Stevie
in
> "Escape", because she's so sympathetic (she's the audience's viewpoint
when
> Zira and Cornelius are killed). Her favorite role of all was Jane Hinkley
> in "The Monte Carlo Story".
>
> Send more questions.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <mflulder@...>
> To: <pota@egroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2000 6:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [pota] Don't worry, be happy
>
>
> > In a message dated 6/3/2000 7:12:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> > williejoe@... writes:
> >
> > << Hey, let's not turn this into a downer. Natalie is glad that fans are
> > looking forward to the remake, life goes on. She's not dismissing it
out
> of
> > hand. Natalie says that Arthur would be thrilled with the interest all
> these
> > years later. It's a vindication of his faith in it years ago. It sounds
> like
> > Fox is treating this thing with kid gloves and I know Zanuck is. If
it's
> as
> > good as everyone hopes it is it'll be a testament to Arthur and Roddy
and
> > all the others who are gone. Thanks for all your concern, truly.
Natalie
> > will still be here for awhile if anyone has more questions. - - - Jeff
>>
> > Natalie, which character was your favorite to play?
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Missing old school friends? Find them here:
> > http://click.egroups.com/1/4055/9/_/19617/_/960081540/
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Get 2 FREE books at eHarlequin.com.Indulge in our romantic books,
> recipes and getaway ideas. Take your romantic escape today to
> http://click.egroups.com/1/4638/9/_/19617/_/960085454/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

Thanks Philip.

You can send the copy to:

Alex Ruiz
5701 w. 25th ct. Apt 401
Hialeah, Fl. 33016

For anyone else who may have any rare exclusives on video relating to the
Apes or the lost scenes of Battle, please mail them to me and I will post
them on the my site for all of you to enjoy.
This is not about making money, for God knows I don't make a penny off of my
site. This is about POTA, and all of those who love these movies as much as
I.

For those of you who have seen my Gladiator Site, know this, that once the
remake gets on the ball, this POTA site is going to have ten times as much
coverage on the remake as my Gladiator movie site does.
For again, this is not about me, it's about the fans and keeping POTA on
top.

Thanks again Philip.
Let me know if you ever need anything.
Alex

----- Original Message -----
From: Philip Nobile <pjn1209@...>
To: <pota@egroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2000 10:51 PM
Subject: [pota] Mego commercials.


> I love your site, Alex - not a lot of POTA multimedia online. Give me
> your address and I'll copy my tape for you, but as I mentioned, the
> quality is so-so.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Get 2 FREE books at eHarlequin.com.Indulge in our romantic books,
> recipes and getaway ideas. Take your romantic escape today to
> http://click.egroups.com/1/4638/9/_/19617/_/960087127/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

Any more questions? Natalie's still here. We just watched "James and the
Giant Peach", produced by Tim Burton; not as good as his "Nightmare Before
Christmas".- - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken & Heather Taylor" <kentaylor@...>
To: <pota@egroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2000 5:51 PM
Subject: [pota] ANOTHER QUESTION FROM DOWNUNDER


>
>
> Hi Jeff and Natalie,
> Firstly, thanks Jeff for arranging this "virtually-live" chat session. The
> questions have been great, as have the answers.
> My question to Natalie is: As you played such an instrumental part in
bringing
> APES from novel to the big screen and appeared in four of the movies,
where you
> offered a role in the original film?
> Thanks,
> KEN
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Get 2 FREE books at eHarlequin.com.Indulge in our romantic books,
> recipes and getaway ideas. Take your romantic escape today to
> http://click.egroups.com/1/4638/9/_/19617/_/960076179/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

Hi Natalie and Jeff,

If you're still there, I got two questions. First of all, as I've said
before, I get the feeling that Charleton Heston really wasn't too into the
series. He played his role very well, don't get me wrong, but he never
seemed to really be fond of POTA, since he shyed away from sequels, and
talks about POTA little, compared to some of his other pictures. Any
thoughts?
Also, I heard from several sources (mainly the Behind the POTA video)
that all the ape species used to cojugate together with their own kind
during the making of the first movie. Did you notice the chimps getting
together, and the orangtangs staying by themselves, and the gorrillas off on
their own during the making of the sequels? Did you, yourself hang around
with only chimpanzees in the fourth and fifth movies?
Thank you for being so kind to answer my questions, as well as everyone
elses. You are a unique actress to take time of your busy life to make a
fans day.




Ross (Dr. Milo)

Smoothness is all....

____________

OK, last questions, both from Alex:

Natalie felt that Heston enjoyed doing "Apes". I agree with her that he
doesn't seem to down play it. By now he's pretty much acknowledged it as one
of his most popular. (Natalie did a convention with him and Linda Harrison
about a month ago). He seems snobbish about the sequels, maybe because they
were successful without him?

Yes, Natalie saw firsthand the different ape species grouping together
during breaks. She says she didn't because she and Roddy just hung out alone
together (they were "snobs").

Thanks everyone for your participation! Natalie Trundy has left the
building!!!- - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ross T." <smoothrt@...>
To: <pota@egroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2000 10:09 PM
Subject: Re: [pota] Step right up


> Hi Natalie and Jeff,
>
> If you're still there, I got two questions. First of all, as I've
said
> before, I get the feeling that Charleton Heston really wasn't too into the
> series. He played his role very well, don't get me wrong, but he never
> seemed to really be fond of POTA, since he shyed away from sequels, and
> talks about POTA little, compared to some of his other pictures. Any
> thoughts?
> Also, I heard from several sources (mainly the Behind the POTA video)
> that all the ape species used to cojugate together with their own kind
> during the making of the first movie. Did you notice the chimps getting
> together, and the orangtangs staying by themselves, and the gorrillas off
on
> their own during the making of the sequels? Did you, yourself hang around
> with only chimpanzees in the fourth and fifth movies?
> Thank you for being so kind to answer my questions, as well as
everyone
> elses. You are a unique actress to take time of your busy life to make a
> fans day.
>
>
>
>
> Ross (Dr. Milo)
>
> Smoothness is all....
>
> ____________

Hey gang-

Couldn't sleep, rewatched Beneath, had some random observations:

In Cornelius and Zira's house - they had a cool little 15"-18" Lawgiver
statue on a shelf. I want Apemania to make this one, so I can afford
one of the damn things. Plus, it'd almost be in scale with the Medicom
figures.

Speaking of Medicom figures, the second soldier ape they made, with the
machine gun, really is a dead-on likeness of the machine gun-wielding
sergeant from Beneath. Looks very cool next to the Ursus figure. Too
bad they didn't make any mutants . . .

Cornelius - Man, they put a crappy outfit on David Watson in Beneath.
His brown leather is crumpled all to hell. And the more I look at it,
the more it seems that he's got those green leather sleeves we discussed
recently. From stills, it looks like Roddy's sleeve leather is brown in
POTA and Escape, but David Watson got the low-end outfit. Poor guy.

I thought I remembered them explaining away Zira and Cornelius' heresy
charges from the end of the first film, but they don't. The way Zira is
acting out at Ursus' speech, you'd never know she was coming off a
heresy charge. And Zaius has been instantly transformed from menacing
authority figure to cranky but kindly uncle. "Remember, I'm counting on
ya both." Cornelius and Zira also appear to have gotten married in the
time between the two films, but how long is that, exactly?

What happened to Mendez? The gorillas are ramming the church doors, it
cuts to a close up of Mendez looking at the door, then at the bomb.
They bust in, and if that IS MEndez at the console, and I'm not sure it
is, he's wearing a completely different outfit than he was five seconds
previously. A continuity goof, or is that not even Mendez saying "This
is the instrument of my God"?

Thoughts? Debates? Don't take this as criticism - I enjoy the film a
lot. It's more like a loved one pointing out your back hair to you.

Regarding Heston's feelings toward POTA, I think a careful reading of
his two autobios shows that he's always been proud of the first film,
but that he came from an old mindset that looked down on sequels as
gimmicks that offered no new acting challenges for a performer. If I
read his books correct, he hasn't seen any of the sequels he wasn't
in, and probably hasn't seen "Beneath" since it premiered.

I always felt the biggest problem with Beneath from a story
standpoint (apart from it's ending) was that they never explained why
Brent and "Skipper" were on a rescue mission in the first place,
since POTA makes it clear that Taylor and crew were on a colonization
mission that they knew would take them two thousand years into the
future. The convenient dropping of the heresy charges also stick
out. But what really amused me, was how the heck Taylor managed to
keep possession of his dog tags all that time! (I know, I know.
Convenient plot point so Brent could connect Nova with Taylor.
Scriptwriters always hope we don't stop and pay attention to the
illogic of it).

Eric Paddon wrote:

>
> But what really amused me, was how the heck Taylor managed to
> keep possession of his dog tags all that time!

Didn't you see Christopher Walken's "Viet Nam pocket watch" monologue in
Pulp Fiction?

Yeah Brian,
Bring on the Lawagiver paperweight. I'll sign up for one now.
Medicom are in fact creating a Lawgiver for their ultra-detailed line. It's
mentioned on the back as "Greatest Ape". Don't know if it will to scale or not.

Best,
KEN

Philip Nobile wrote:

> Hey gang-
>
> Couldn't sleep, rewatched Beneath, had some random observations:
>
> In Cornelius and Zira's house - they had a cool little 15"-18" Lawgiver
> statue on a shelf. I want Apemania to make this one, so I can afford
> one of the damn things. Plus, it'd almost be in scale with the Medicom
> figures.
>
> Speaking of Medicom figures, the second soldier ape they made, with the
> machine gun, really is a dead-on likeness of the machine gun-wielding
> sergeant from Beneath. Looks very cool next to the Ursus figure. Too
> bad they didn't make any mutants . . .
>
> Cornelius - Man, they put a crappy outfit on David Watson in Beneath.
> His brown leather is crumpled all to hell. And the more I look at it,
> the more it seems that he's got those green leather sleeves we discussed
> recently. From stills, it looks like Roddy's sleeve leather is brown in
> POTA and Escape, but David Watson got the low-end outfit. Poor guy.
>
> I thought I remembered them explaining away Zira and Cornelius' heresy
> charges from the end of the first film, but they don't. The way Zira is
> acting out at Ursus' speech, you'd never know she was coming off a
> heresy charge. And Zaius has been instantly transformed from menacing
> authority figure to cranky but kindly uncle. "Remember, I'm counting on
> ya both." Cornelius and Zira also appear to have gotten married in the
> time between the two films, but how long is that, exactly?
>
> What happened to Mendez? The gorillas are ramming the church doors, it
> cuts to a close up of Mendez looking at the door, then at the bomb.
> They bust in, and if that IS MEndez at the console, and I'm not sure it
> is, he's wearing a completely different outfit than he was five seconds
> previously. A continuity goof, or is that not even Mendez saying "This
> is the instrument of my God"?
>
> Thoughts? Debates? Don't take this as criticism - I enjoy the film a
> lot. It's more like a loved one pointing out your back hair to you.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Would you like to save big on your phone bill -- and keep on saving
> more each month? Join beMANY! Our huge buying group gives you Long Distance
> rates which fall monthly, plus an extra $60 in FREE calls!
> http://click.egroups.com/1/2567/9/_/19617/_/960100422/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Didn't you see Christopher Walken's "Viet Nam pocket watch" monologue in
Pulp Fiction?"

Too funny.
Now, where are my car keys?

Philip Nobile wrote:

> Eric Paddon wrote:
> >
> > But what really amused me, was how the heck Taylor managed to
> > keep possession of his dog tags all that time!
>
> Didn't you see Christopher Walken's "Viet Nam pocket watch" monologue in
> Pulp Fiction?
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Big Groups = big savings @ beMANY!
> http://click.egroups.com/1/4112/9/_/19617/_/960101719/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear pota@egroups.com,

5.5 cents/min. state to state calling, All Day, No Fees!

...and great international rates for residents INSIDE and OUTSIDE
the USA.

- Rates apply all day, every day.
- No monthly fees or minimums!
- 6 second billing increments!
- Commercial or residential.
- 5.5 cents a minute 800/888 service.
- Great international rates!
- Direct billing available.

.. and International Callback for residents outside the US.

We are also looking for agents worldwide to market our services.
Great Business Opportunity!

For details, contact us at w.henderson@...


For service information, please type "5.5" in the subject line.
For agent information, please type "agent" in the subject line.

Please include your full name when requesting agent information. Thanks.

Ken & Heather Taylor wrote:

>
> Medicom are in fact creating a Lawgiver for their ultra-detailed line. It's
> mentioned on the back as "Greatest Ape".

My guess is that it'll be a John Huston figure, from Battle.

"He'd be damned if some gorilla was going to get his paws on his dog tags"
And what about Brent. After he changes into his "human" clothes, he stashed
his dog tags in his loincloth. Did it have some kind of secret pocket?

Just throwing this up for discussion. These are synopses of ideas
submitted for the first Apes sequel, taken from the Eric Greene book-

Serling's sequel: Taylor finds the remains of a human city, some
weapons, and an old airplane he uses to fight off the apes. Just as it
looks as if Taylor will be defeated, another spaceship from the past
arrives and prevents his death. Having the chance now to return to his
own time, Taylor chooses a woman astronaut from the crew as his mate and
decides to stay to rebuild humanity in the apes' time.

Boulle's sequel ("Planet of the Men"): The script begins with Taylor
and Nova staring a colony of humans. Taylor eventually teaches them to
talk, to protect themselves against the apes, and to raid ape outposts
for food.

The scene shifts to the apes' city, 12 years after the close of
"Planet", where Cornelius, having served a prison sentence for heresy
because of his evolution theories, runs for political office. He is
supported by a small group of radical chimpanzees. Competing with Zaius
for the post of minister of science, Cornelius presses the apes to
"without prejudice, stretch out your hands to the humans and help them
to better their miserable condition. It would be a task worthy of
apes."

In contrast, Zaius warns of "a human tide which comes to submerge us,
and which would be the end of all civilization on this planet." Playing
on the racial fears of the ape population, Zaius easily wins
reelection. Along with gorilla Field Marshall Urus, Zaius plans to
launch a war of extermination against the humans. Zira, Cornelius and
Lucius go to Taylor's camp to warn him.

Taylor's son Sirius hates all apes, and when the attack comes he
disobeys Taylor's orders to take prisoners. Sirius and his troops
slaughter the ape army and then set out to conquer the ape capital and
wipe their "wicked" city "from the face of the planet" because "only
fire can purify this foul place". Taylor, dismayed that he helped bring
about a reassertion of humanity's thirst for destruction, is killed by
the other humans while he is trying to protect Cornelius and Zira. As
the apes go insane and revert to their primitive animal state, Zira and
Cornelius kill themselves in order to die with dignity. In the final
scene, Zaius, who has lost his advanced intelligence and been reduced to
a circus ape, is given a lump of sugar and dumbly applauds himself after
struggling to stammer "Z . . .Zaious" for the human audience.

In another sequel idea entitled "The Dark Side of the Earth", Taylor and
Nova find the remains of a 20th century town inhabited by thinking,
talking humans. They join the humans and enjoy their pastoral, carefree
lifestyle until another US spaceship crashes, with one astronaut
surviving. In time, the second astronaut leads the humans on an attack
against the apes just as the hawkish apes led by Zaius plan to attack
the humans. As in Boulle's treatment, the humans take over and the apes
revert to a primitive pre-articulate state. But Taylor is not killed in
this story. Rather, remembering a bomb he found in the humans' arsenal
and disgusted by the carnage, prejudice and hatred he has witnessed,
Taylor decides to destroy everything so that God can try it all over
again. He crashes the ship into the city, igniting a nuclear holocaust
which leaves nothing except the reproductive imagery of a flower and a
bee.

Ken & Heather Taylor wrote:

> Yeah Brian,
> Bring on the Lawagiver paperweight. I'll sign up for one now.
> Medicom are in fact creating a Lawgiver for their ultra-detailed line. It's
> mentioned on the back as "Greatest Ape". Don't know if it will to scale or not.
>
> Best,
> KEN

It's in the works you clairvoyant fool!

Brian

Does anybody have a price guide to the old POTA cards from the 60s? My friend
has about 200 of them and wants to know how much they are worth.
Sincerely,
Chris

On Sun, 04 Jun 2000 11:37:43 -0400 Philip Nobile <pjn1209@...>
writes:

>Just throwing this up for discussion. These are synopses of ideas
>submitted for the first Apes sequel, taken from the Eric Greene book-

Did anyone pick up the trade paperback version of this book? I heard that
it contained production artwork from all five movies as well as other
photos not contained in the hardcover version. Anyone know what the deal
is?

> Rather, remembering a bomb he found in the humans' arsenal
>and disgusted by the carnage, prejudice and hatred he has witnessed,
>Taylor decides to destroy everything so that God can try it all over
>again. He crashes the ship into the city, igniting a nuclear holocaust

which leaves >nothing except the reproductive imagery of a flower and a
bee.


This is the same reason I always felt Taylor detonated the bomb at the
end of BENEATH- he was so disgusted at what the world had become that he
decided to end it once and for all. Humanity messed it up, the Apes were
pretty much on the same path, and the surviving "intelligent" humans
epitomized the worst parts of humanity (hypocrisy, prejudice). Out of
curiosity, how many people on the list actually liked the ending of
BENEATH?


Chris L.

____

On Sun, 4 Jun 2000 11:22:44 EDT JSe3689836@... writes:

>"He'd be damned if some gorilla was going to get his paws on his dog
>tags" And what about Brent. After he changes into his "human" clothes,

he

>stashed his dog tags in his loincloth. Did it have some kind of secret

pocket?


In the scene where he's changing, you see him tuck the tags into his
loincloth and hang the chain over the outside. I'm sure there was a place
to hide them inside the loincloth though.


Chris L.

____

On Sun, 04 Jun 2000 06:48:35 -0000 "Eric Paddon"
<ep993185@...> writes:

>I always felt the biggest problem with Beneath from a story
>standpoint (apart from it's ending) was that they never explained why
>Brent and "Skipper" were on a rescue mission in the first place,
>since POTA makes it clear that Taylor and crew were on a colonization
>mission that they knew would take them two thousand years into the
>future.

This pretty much falls under "suspension of disbelief". Remember that
when the first movie was written, there were no plans for a sequel. And
when CH wasn't keen on being a central character in BENEATH, they came up
with the idea of a second astronaut and rescue mission. And hey, if we're
willing to accept that Dr. Milo was able to salvage Taylor's ship and
make it useable (again, a sequel was needed where there were no plans for
one).

> But what really amused me, was how the heck Taylor managed to keep

possession >of his dog tags all that time! (I know, I know. Convenient
plot point so Brent could >connect Nova with Taylor. Scriptwriters always
hope we don't stop and pay attention to >the illogic of it).


Actually, if you've ever known anyone in any type of military service
you'd know that the ID Tags are important for a number of reasons. In
training you're instructed that- no matter what- always try to keep your
ID tags with you (this is especially important in times of war for
obvious reasons). Paul Dehn was in the military service before becoming a
screenwriter, so you could see why things like this were included in
BENEATH.


Chris L.

____

On Sun, 04 Jun 2000 02:33:28 -0400 Philip Nobile <pjn1209@...>
writes:

>Hey gang-
>
>Couldn't sleep, rewatched Beneath, had some random observations:


>I thought I remembered them explaining away Zira and Cornelius'
>heresy charges from the end of the first film, but they don't. The way

Zira is acting out >at Ursus' speech, you'd never know she was coming off
a heresy charge.

Actually it was explained in the original screenplay. The scene in
Cornelius and Zira's house with Dr. Zaius had a lot more dialogue,
including an explanation as to what happened (basically the Ape Council
agreed to drop the charges if C & Z kept silent about the true nature of
humanity on the planet). In the Marvel Comics adaptation (and I believe
the paperback novelization as well) this dialogue is included. If you've
read either of these, that's probably where you're remembering it from.

>And Zaius has been instantly transformed from menacing authority figure

to cranky but >kindly uncle. "Remember, I'm counting on ya both."

Could be a lot of reasons for this. The power shift in the Ape Society
could have made the orangutans realize the potential allies they had with
the chimpanzees.

>Cornelius and Zira also appear to have gotten married in the time

between the two >films, but how long is that, exactly?


It couldn't have been that long, as Taylor and Nova could only have
survived in the Forbidden Zone for so long without supplies. Maybe ape
weddings don't require as much planning as human ones do?

>What happened to Mendez? The gorillas are ramming the church doors, it

cuts to a >close up of Mendez looking at the door, then at the bomb. They
bust in, and if that IS >Mendez at the console, and I'm not sure it is,
he's wearing a completely different outfit >than he was five seconds
previously. A continuity goof, or is that not even Mendez >saying "This
is the instrument of my God"?

It's him. He just took off his outer (purple) robe/cloak (whatever you
want to call it). Remember that most of the mutant high council wore one
of these. Mendez wore purple, Caspay wore green, Albina wore blue, and
(can't think of the original character name) the fat man wore red.
Originally, Don Pedro Colley's character (Ongaro, I think) was supposed
to be dressed in all white, but in the film it (the cloak) was more of a
gold/tan color.

>Thoughts? Debates? Don't take this as criticism - I enjoy the film a

lot. It's more like a >loved one pointing out your back hair to you.


Ewwwwww...... I know you could have come up with a better metaphor than
that Phil.


Chris L.


____

Blast it!

sorry, I have been ill, so dear Natalie wasn't pestered by yours truly asking lots
of silly questions. The only real question I'd have is whether she would have
liked to have seen a POTA film closer to the Boulle novel. I always have a mental
image of a long rising camera take - big panorama shot opening out (after the
title sequence) of an ape city, cars, planes, the lot. Mind you - and perhaps this
is a little too far, but is inspired by the opening of Escape - a bit of space-age
Ape city wouldn't go amiss either. Why should their world be backward - why not
forward?

A lawgiver statuette would go very nice on my desk, tho' 15-18" may be too tall,
something 10-12" would be nice...



Ken & Heather Taylor wrote:

> Yeah Brian,
> Bring on the Lawagiver paperweight. I'll sign up for one now.
> Medicom are in fact creating a Lawgiver for their ultra-detailed line. It's
> mentioned on the back as "Greatest Ape". Don't know if it will to scale or not.
>
> Best,
> KEN
>
> Philip Nobile wrote:
>
> > Hey gang-
> >
> > Couldn't sleep, rewatched Beneath, had some random observations:
> >
> > In Cornelius and Zira's house - they had a cool little 15"-18" Lawgiver
> > statue on a shelf. I want Apemania to make this one, so I can afford
> > one of the damn things. Plus, it'd almost be in scale with the Medicom
> > figures.
> >

I find the reversion idea from Boulle's sequel almost terrifying. The
suggestion is that beings who were raised up could fall away very
quickly. It would then contradict all of the sub-themes that pervade
POTA. Somehow, the destruction of the apes is a feature of Beneath and
Escape. Conquest and Battle are history fill ins taken in this light.

I suppose my novel is a prequel then. Whether or not it is a good idea,
there are no humans in sight, and so are behaving themselves very well.

For one of the screen tests, a human-ape child was made up. Can anyone
care to guess at the context of the use of man/ape hybrids, within
projected POTA scripts?

In a message dated 6/4/2000 1:25:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
lawford42@... writes:

<< It couldn't have been that long, as Taylor and Nova could only have
survived in the Forbidden Zone for so long without supplies. Maybe ape
weddings don't require as much planning as human ones do?

>>

I actually have a POTA comic book which has an Ape wedding in it, if you go
by that, it is a lot of planning.

lawford42@... wrote:

>
> It's him. He just took off his outer (purple) robe/cloak (whatever you
> want to call it).

That's one QUICK change, man. I think his headpiece is even different .
. .

Mark Gould wrote:

>
> For one of the screen tests, a human-ape child was made up. Can anyone
> care to guess at the context of the use of man/ape hybrids, within
> projected POTA scripts?

That was for a rejected ending, showing teh hybrid, indicating a ray of
hope for ape and man.

--- In pota@egroups.com, Philip Nobile <pjn1209@e...> wrote:

> Didn't you see Christopher Walken's "Viet Nam pocket watch"

monologue in

> Pulp Fiction?

No. Never saw that film (and never will).

Eric Paddon

> This pretty much falls under "suspension of disbelief". Remember

that

Quite true, but I think one line of exposition would have helped.

> ID tags with you (this is especially important in times of war for
> obvious reasons). Paul Dehn was in the military service before

becoming a

> screenwriter, so you could see why things like this were included in
> BENEATH.

Granted, but where are those tags on Taylor's person during the
courtroom scene in POTA? :) (The only explanation I'd venture would
be
too gross for me to repeat)

Eric Paddon

> That was for a rejected ending, showing teh hybrid, indicating a

ray
of

> hope for ape and man.

Which got rejected because the producers were afraid the underlying
implications would cost them a G-rating. So instead they had a
bloody
shoot-out and the blowing up of the Earth (and that's somehow not
potentially traumatizing to a kiddie audience? Whatever one thinks
of the ending, a G-Rating was not what this film should have got,
even
by 1970 standards).

Just out of curiosity, what is the Archives Binder for? The new card
sets? Something else?


Chris L.
____

I always wondered what kind of subtext Paul Dehn was trying to convey
with that.


Chris L.


On Sat, 03 Jun 2000 10:18:39 +0100 Mark Gould <mark.gould@...>
writes:

>Take for example that the bomb is marked alpha-omega, so they praised a

bomb

>whose symbol is the same as that of Christ
>
>'I am the Alpha and the Omega'
>
>(but you knew that..)


>>Granted, this is a bit of an interpretation my part, but that's one of
>>the things I love about this particular movie. A lot of things are
>>"written in" to the story and you have to take the time to think
>>about them- it isn't all spoon fed to the audience. Take the inverted
>>crosses- they represented the bomb, but there wasn't long, lingering

images

>>of the crosses in the film. They were in the background and the viewer

had

>>to pick up on it. Also (like Alex pointed out) the Sign of the Bomb
>>the mutants made at the end of the Mass was a visual reference to the
>>bomb/crosses, but how many times did we all watch the movie before
>>it clicked with us what they were doing?

>> Anyway, enough rambling for one night.

>> Chris L.

____

Chris L wrote:

>This is the same reason I always felt Taylor detonated the bomb at the
>end of BENEATH- he was so disgusted at what the world had become that he
>decided to end it once and for all. Humanity messed it up, the Apes were
>pretty much on the same path, and the surviving "intelligent" humans
>epitomized the worst parts of humanity (hypocrisy, prejudice). Out of
>curiosity, how many people on the list actually liked the ending of
>BENEATH?

Me! I love it!

Alan

Chris L. wrote:

>Just out of curiosity, what is the Archives Binder for? The new card
>sets? Something else?

Yep, it's for last year's trading card set.

Alan

The Archives Binder was initially made for the first set of cards...although it can be used for the forthcoming set too. I plan to use my binder for both.

---
Stephanie

On Sun, 4 Jun 2000 16:29:55 lawford42 wrote:
>Just out of curiosity, what is the Archives Binder for? The new card
>sets? Something else?
>
>
>Chris L.
>____

Philip Nobile <pjn1209@...> wrote:

>Serling's sequel: Taylor finds the remains of a human city, some
>weapons, and an old airplane he uses to fight off the apes. Just as it
>looks as if Taylor will be defeated, another spaceship from the past
>arrives and prevents his death. Having the chance now to return to his
>own time, Taylor chooses a woman astronaut from the crew as his mate and
>decides to stay to rebuild humanity in the apes' time.

To me this sounds OK, but it's interesting that it's Serling's idea - I'm
pretty certain he would have turned this into something special.

>In another sequel idea entitled "The Dark Side of the Earth", [snip]
>...Rather, remembering a bomb he found in the humans' arsenal
>and disgusted by the carnage, prejudice and hatred he has witnessed,
>Taylor decides to destroy everything so that God can try it all over
>again. He crashes the ship into the city, igniting a nuclear holocaust
>which leaves nothing except the reproductive imagery of a flower and a
>bee.

This gets my vote as the best sequel-that-never-was! As I said earlier, I
love miserable endings, so it's good from that point of view, but even then
there is something happy about the final image.

But all things considered, I'm happy with Beneath!

Alan

.html <.html

In response to the thing about Chris Walken's speech on the pocket watch.
That scene was great. He was so serious about it, I would have a hard time
being serious about talking about something that had been up my butt for a
while.

Chris

Eric Paddon wrote:

>
> --- In pota@egroups.com, Philip Nobile <pjn1209@e...> wrote:
>
> > Didn't you see Christopher Walken's "Viet Nam pocket watch"
> monologue in
> > Pulp Fiction?
>
> No. Never saw that film (and never will).

Okay. I'm not a huge champion of that film (teh joke was just
appropriate here), and I don't want to veer too far off topic, but I'll
bite: What made you decide you'll NEVER see "that film"?

Maybe Taylor stashed them in his cage. Or on Nova. Sure beats the
alternative.

Okay, here's my pitch... During the days (weeks) that Taylor and Nova
wandered around the forbidden zone maybe they, on purpose or by
accident retraced Taylors steps and found themselves back near the
oasis where the three astronauts went skinny dipping?

Maybe his dog tags were to be found hanging from a branch where he
left them for safe keeping?

Then again... maybe not.

Dave B

I realize this is off topic but Pulp Fiction is really good in my opinion.
Its great how it ends and begins in the same place. It has a very interesting
format and a lot of interesting dialogue. There is only one scene I didn't
like in that movie. You should go see it for yourself and then decide if it
really is bad or not.

Chris

Well, that to me sounds like the most logical of all, because if Taylor had
the tags on him during the trial, I'm sure he would have shown them to Zaius
to prove his space theory, or even his own intellegance for that matter.

The truth is that POTA has a lot of loop holes simply because of the fact
that these sequals were never planed while the original was being made, but
none the less, they did an excellent job with what they had to deal with,
buget and all.

POTA is perfect, while the sequals had trouble putting the pieces together.
Dog Tags, 3978 to 3955, Escape from POTA, Ape Evolution in Conquest, and
even in Battle.
Where in Battle (after nuclear war you have perfectly blue skies, and in
POTA you have strange sky patterns in which the astronauts couldn't tell on
what planet they were on) Many details, many loop holes.

But I still love the Ape Flicks

Alex

----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Ballard <dballard@...>
To: <pota@egroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 05, 2000 12:57 PM
Subject: [pota] Re: The Dog Tags


> Okay, here's my pitch... During the days (weeks) that Taylor and Nova
> wandered around the forbidden zone maybe they, on purpose or by
> accident retraced Taylors steps and found themselves back near the
> oasis where the three astronauts went skinny dipping?
>
> Maybe his dog tags were to be found hanging from a branch where he
> left them for safe keeping?
>
> Then again... maybe not.
>
> Dave B
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Was the salesman clueless? Productopia has the answers.
> http://click.egroups.com/1/4633/9/_/19617/_/960224356/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

One throwaway line that defeats me is the comment:

'a strange luminescence at night, but no moon'

Was the moon blown up to..? I think not somehow.

In any case, Cornelius would not have been able to say

'even at low tide there is no dry land, and the in last expedition we
didn't bring boats' (or words to that effect)

Without a moon, tides would be 1/3 the height of normal moon-drawn
tides, which would mean Taylor couldn't progress along the beach like he
did.

My guess: the moon was going from last quarter to new during the desert
trek, and it was high at sunrise (close to an eclipse) so you wouldn't
have seen it, with a bit of cloud cover.

M

I know that M
But my point is that after a nuclear conflict, you just don't have pretty
blue skies as you do in Battle.
Remember that the destroyed city was only a 3 day walk from Caesar's home.
Following a nuclear conflict, skies just don't clear up that quick.
And that's why POTA made a lot more sence with strange wheather patterns
than Battle.

Hey, I love theses movies, but truth is truth.
Alex

----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Gould <mark.gould@...>
To: pota <pota@egroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 05, 2000 2:52 PM
Subject: [pota] No moon


> One throwaway line that defeats me is the comment:
>
> 'a strange luminescence at night, but no moon'
>
> Was the moon blown up to..? I think not somehow.
>
> In any case, Cornelius would not have been able to say
>
> 'even at low tide there is no dry land, and the in last expedition we
> didn't bring boats' (or words to that effect)
>
> Without a moon, tides would be 1/3 the height of normal moon-drawn
> tides, which would mean Taylor couldn't progress along the beach like he
> did.
>
> My guess: the moon was going from last quarter to new during the desert
> trek, and it was high at sunrise (close to an eclipse) so you wouldn't
> have seen it, with a bit of cloud cover.
>
> M
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Failed tests, classes skipped, forgotten locker combinations.
> Remember the good 'ol days
> http://click.egroups.com/1/4053/9/_/19617/_/960231379/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

Battle was also suffering from a low budget as well. Too bad they
couldn't have thrown in some cheesy "Damnation Alley" sky effects
for good measure.

Here's a question though...
Was the nuclear conflict that followed the Ape uprising the last one?
It's possible that there was an initial exchange, followed by another
one some time later. After all, we're not really sure what all was hit
(although the movies do lead one to think it was one massive exchange).

Also, if it was such a fatal exhange...why weren't the Alpha-Omega weapon(s)
used? It's possible that similar, yet less powerful weapons were deployed.
I guess we'll really never know...

Steve

Alexander Ruiz wrote:

>
> I know that M
> But my point is that after a nuclear conflict, you just don't have pretty
> blue skies as you do in Battle.
> Remember that the destroyed city was only a 3 day walk from Caesar's home.
> Following a nuclear conflict, skies just don't clear up that quick.
> And that's why POTA made a lot more sence with strange wheather patterns
> than Battle.
>
> Hey, I love theses movies, but truth is truth.
> Alex
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mark Gould <mark.gould@...>
> To: pota <pota@egroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, June 05, 2000 2:52 PM
> Subject: [pota] No moon
>
> > One throwaway line that defeats me is the comment:
> >
> > 'a strange luminescence at night, but no moon'
> >
> > Was the moon blown up to..? I think not somehow.
> >
> > In any case, Cornelius would not have been able to say
> >
> > 'even at low tide there is no dry land, and the in last expedition we
> > didn't bring boats' (or words to that effect)
> >
> > Without a moon, tides would be 1/3 the height of normal moon-drawn
> > tides, which would mean Taylor couldn't progress along the beach like he
> > did.
> >
> > My guess: the moon was going from last quarter to new during the desert
> > trek, and it was high at sunrise (close to an eclipse) so you wouldn't
> > have seen it, with a bit of cloud cover.
> >
> > M
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Failed tests, classes skipped, forgotten locker combinations.
> > Remember the good 'ol days
> > http://click.egroups.com/1/4053/9/_/19617/_/960231379/
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Was the salesman clueless? Productopia has the answers.
> http://click.egroups.com/1/4633/9/_/19617/_/960232159/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

That is true.
It's too bad they never made comic books based on events inbetween the films
themselves, as they did with star wars.
Comics between Planet and Beneath, between Beneath and Escape, between
Escape and Conquest and so on.
Not only that but also events they didn't show in the film, like Zira,
Cornelius and Milo working on the ship.
Now that would have been really cool.

They did a little of that in the Escape comic, the episode begins with them
in the space craft feeling the effects from the Alpha-Omega Blast.
I might scan some pages for the site.

Alex

----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Temple <steven.temple@...>
To: <pota@egroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 05, 2000 3:26 PM
Subject: Re: [pota] No moon


> Battle was also suffering from a low budget as well. Too bad they
> couldn't have thrown in some cheesy "Damnation Alley" sky effects
> for good measure.
>
> Here's a question though...
> Was the nuclear conflict that followed the Ape uprising the last one?
> It's possible that there was an initial exchange, followed by another
> one some time later. After all, we're not really sure what all was hit
> (although the movies do lead one to think it was one massive exchange).
>
> Also, if it was such a fatal exhange...why weren't the Alpha-Omega
weapon(s)
> used? It's possible that similar, yet less powerful weapons were
deployed.
> I guess we'll really never know...
>
> Steve
>
> Alexander Ruiz wrote:
> >
> > I know that M
> > But my point is that after a nuclear conflict, you just don't have
pretty
> > blue skies as you do in Battle.
> > Remember that the destroyed city was only a 3 day walk from Caesar's
home.
> > Following a nuclear conflict, skies just don't clear up that quick.
> > And that's why POTA made a lot more sence with strange wheather patterns
> > than Battle.
> >
> > Hey, I love theses movies, but truth is truth.
> > Alex
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Mark Gould <mark.gould@...>
> > To: pota <pota@egroups.com>
> > Sent: Monday, June 05, 2000 2:52 PM
> > Subject: [pota] No moon
> >
> > > One throwaway line that defeats me is the comment:
> > >
> > > 'a strange luminescence at night, but no moon'
> > >
> > > Was the moon blown up to..? I think not somehow.
> > >
> > > In any case, Cornelius would not have been able to say
> > >
> > > 'even at low tide there is no dry land, and the in last expedition we
> > > didn't bring boats' (or words to that effect)
> > >
> > > Without a moon, tides would be 1/3 the height of normal moon-drawn
> > > tides, which would mean Taylor couldn't progress along the beach like
he
> > > did.
> > >
> > > My guess: the moon was going from last quarter to new during the
desert
> > > trek, and it was high at sunrise (close to an eclipse) so you wouldn't
> > > have seen it, with a bit of cloud cover.
> > >
> > > M
> > >
> > >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Failed tests, classes skipped, forgotten locker combinations.
> > > Remember the good 'ol days
> > > http://click.egroups.com/1/4053/9/_/19617/_/960231379/
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Was the salesman clueless? Productopia has the answers.
> > http://click.egroups.com/1/4633/9/_/19617/_/960232159/
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Best friends, most artistic, class clown Find 'em here:
> http://click.egroups.com/1/4054/9/_/19617/_/960233466/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

>It's too bad they never made comic books based on events inbetween the
>films
>themselves, as they did with star wars.

They did. Adventure comics featured events between Planet and Battle.
Caesar's heir, named . . . Alexander!

>They did a little of that in the Escape comic, the episode begins with them
>in the space craft feeling the effects from the Alpha-Omega Blast.

They filmed that. You can see stills of it in both Eric Greene's book and
the recent trading card set.


____________

When replying to a POTA post, *PLEASE* do not include the entire text
of the message to which you're replying. It makes reading the digest
version extremely difficult, as entire messages are duplicated as many
as a dozen times in a digest, with all the replies lately that have
included the entire messages texts.

Thanks!

Hunter
------
Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/
<goathunter@...> http://www2.wku.edu/hunter/

*PLEASE* do not include the entire text of the message to which you're
replying

OK!

Philip Nobile <soylentphil@...> wrote:

>Adventure comics featured events between Planet and Battle.
>Caesar's heir, named . . . Alexander!

There were also a couple of direct tie-ins too - one issue (somewhere in the
region of 17-19) was a tie-in to Conquest, the one-shot "Sins of the Father"
tied in to the original movie in some way (I can't remember, it's been a
while since I read that one). And of course the old Marvel mag had "Quest
for the Planet of the Apes" which took place between Conquest and Battle.
Incredibly enough I haven't even read that story yet. And I call myself a
fan - what a cheek. :-)

Alan

Alexander Ruiz <byruiz@...> wrote:

>But my point is that after a nuclear conflict, you just don't have pretty
>blue skies as you do in Battle.

The problem is how long has passed - the timeline surrounding Battle is
completely screwed really. There are all kinds of suggestions as to when it
takes place, but nearly all of them have some kind of contradiction.

We can't even be sure how long the skies would take to clear, since we have
no idea of the strength of weapons used. Although admittedly it was
obviously less than ten megatons. Don't know if that clarifies anything or
clouds the issue even further!

Alan

When I saw BENEATH in 1970 I was 9 years old, and I thought Ursus was one
pretty scary gorilla. But he was scary in a fun sort of way and I thought
the movie was the coolest thing I'd ever seen. The violence, even though
pretty graphic in retrospect, didn't bother me in the least. The Bomb
destroyed the whole world? Cooooll!

David Gordon
Station Manager
KUNR-FM
Mail Stop 294
University of Nevada, Reno
Reno, NV 89557
(775) 327-5867
Fax: (775) 784-1381
gordon@...
Hear KUNR live on the Web at www.kunr.org

>Which got rejected because the producers were afraid the underlying
>implications would cost them a G-rating. So instead they had a
>bloody
>shoot-out and the blowing up of the Earth (and that's somehow not
>potentially traumatizing to a kiddie audience? Whatever one thinks
>of the ending, a G-Rating was not what this film should have got,
>even
>by 1970 standards).

I would think that the skies would probably clear up after 200 to 150 years
if there was a pretty big nuclear war. But for the skies to be screwed up for
say a thousand years is pretty unrealistic to me.

Chris

> I would think that the skies would probably clear up after 200 to 150

years

> if there was a pretty big nuclear war. But for the skies to be screwed up

for

> say a thousand years is pretty unrealistic to me.
>
> Chris

Well, I don't know about that.
Just take a look at the dinosaurs and the ice age.
Caused by one meteor, nuclear would be worst.
I would asume.

Alex

> They did. Adventure comics featured events between Planet and Battle.
> Caesar's heir, named . . . Alexander!

Yeah, those were cool, I liked those.
But also more towards the films themselves would have been even cooler.

> They filmed that. You can see stills of it in both Eric Greene's book and
> the recent trading card set.

It would have awesome if they left on the release.

Alex

Maybe is was a storm of meteors, as Taylor surmised. A huge natural
catastrophe, and in the chaos, the missiles are launched. Boom!

> Maybe is was a storm of meteors, as Taylor surmised. A huge natural
> catastrophe, and in the chaos, the missiles are launched. Boom!

Thats possible.

On Sun, 04 Jun 2000 20:40:34 -0000 "Eric Paddon"
<ep993185@...> writes:

>> ID tags with you (this is especially important in times of war for
>> obvious reasons). Paul Dehn was in the military service before
>> becoming a screenwriter, so you could see why things like this were

included

>> in BENEATH.


>Granted, but where are those tags on Taylor's person during the
>courtroom scene in POTA? :) (The only explanation I'd venture would
>be too gross for me to repeat)

I kind of like the explanation that was offered where Taylor ventured
back to where the astronauts were swimming and found them again,
especially after discovering the Statue of Liberty. Again, remember how
important the ID tags are to people in the military. To extrapolate on
his character a bit, one could reasonably argue that some parts of the
military service appealed to him. Perhaps he wanted a connection to his
past- the part of it that made sense to him anyway.


Chris L.
____

On Sun, 04 Jun 2000 16:20:19 -0400 Philip Nobile <pjn1209@...>
writes:

>lawford42@... wrote:

>> It's him. He just took off his outer (purple) robe/cloak (whatever
>> you want to call it).


>That's one QUICK change, man. I think his headpiece is even different

I whipped out the old laserdisc (the 1991 version) and double checked.
The headpiece is the same, he simply just removed the robe. Granted it
took place fairly quickly- you see the scene of him looking at the bomb,
then a scene of the doors starting to give in, then it cuts to the
gorillas on the outside with the steel girder, then the (great) shot when
the door gives way and the camera slowly moves to show you (from the
outside) Mendez kneeling (inside) in front of the bomb. You get an idea
of how big the St. Patrick's Cathedral set actually was.

I don't think it was a continuity error, because I can't think of any
other reason why they'd be filming Mendez alone in the Cathedral,
especially with the doors being rammed.

Of course, there are one or two slight continuity errors in the film- one
of them takes place in the Cathedral. Anyone know what I'm talking about?
A bit less of a brain tease than the one I threw out last week about the
ending of the film being hinted at...


Chris L.
____

On Thu, 01 Jun 2000 00:10:36 -0400 Philip Nobile <pjn1209@...>
writes:

>Ross T. wrote:

>> Wow,

>>I'm sad to say it, but I must admit it; I never picked up on
>>the inverted crosses at all, had no clue they were even in the film.
>>Where else do you see these in the background?

>They're on the sliding doors the mutants bring Nova through, right
>before Brent tries to kill her with his magical "death kiss".

> Can someone give some specific scenes?

In addition to both sides of the sliding doors, they're on both sides of
the Cathedral doors, and on the front of the control panel on the altar.

And (very obviously) in the desert with the upside-down crucified
gorillas.

>> Also, I don't understand that whole Mendez thing on the piano. What
>>does it all mean? Is it just another tie-in with Battle for the POTA?

I think this was already explained, but it was the Psalm of Mendez the
Second being sung by the mutants. Much like in church when they say
you're going to sing hymn number (whatever) for the different parts of
the mass. Since they were already singing when this scene begins, I
always wondered if that meant the mass was even longer than what you saw
in the film.

Presumable (though not definitely) Mendez the 26th in BENEATH is a direct
descendant of the Mendez in BATTLE.


Chris L.

____

On Sun, 04 Jun 2000 20:45:42 -0000 "Eric Paddon"
<ep993185@...> writes:

>> That was for a rejected ending, showing the hybrid, indicating a ray
>>of hope for ape and man.


>Which got rejected because the producers were afraid the underlying
>implications would cost them a G-rating. So instead they had a
>bloody shoot-out and the blowing up of the Earth (and that's somehow not

>potentially traumatizing to a kiddie audience? Whatever one thinks
>of the ending, a G-Rating was not what this film should have got,
>even by 1970 standards).

Just goes to show you how hypocritical the MPAA was even back then.
Anyone who saw the South Park movie last year knows that the MPAA was
taken to task for the absolutely ridiculous guidelines they have.
Violence, death, and gore are alright, but heaven forbid you show two
people in a sexual act- even if the people are in love with each other
and that's the reason for the scene. I'd have to say that violence would
have more of an effect on the viewer than sex- whether on screen or
implied. And I suppose that for an ape/human hybrid to exist in the first
place, there certainly would have to be love involved. I'm trying not to
get graphic here, but you all know what I'm talking about.

Of course if all this did happen, we wouldn't have the cool ending we
ended up with. Or the other three sequels for that matter.


Chris L.

____

lawford42@... wrote:

>
> I don't think it was a continuity error, because I can't think of any
> other reason why they'd be filming Mendez alone in the Cathedral,
> especially with the doors being rammed.

Well, I think they forgot to get a reaction shot of him for that scene,
and just used a closeup from the interrogation scene. Compare the
closeups from both scenes. You can't tell that he's in or not in the
cathedral, it's just an isolated closeup. And of course picture and
sound are edited together separately . . .

> I think this was already explained, but it was the Psalm of Mendez the
> Second being sung by the mutants. Much like in church when they say
> you're going to sing hymn number (whatever) for the different parts of
> the mass. Since they were already singing when this scene begins, I
> always wondered if that meant the mass was even longer than what you saw
> in the film.

Well, that is one of the really freaky things about Beneath, because 'Psalm'
is one of the books of the old testament in the bible. A collection of
writings by King David that were originaly songs. And yet you have a Psalm
of Mendez in the movie. Then of course you have the theme of Alpha-Omega
which is Jesus Christ in the bible. Then of course the name Mendez is
Jewish. (Spanish Jew) to be more exact. And of course the bible is all
Jewish, even the new testament because even Jesus himself was Jewish.

So while this movie was low buget, a lot of thought was no doubt put into
it.
And placing it upon an asume theme.
Very cool.

Alex

Last word from me on this subject... We've all seem to have forgotten
that the Nuclear war (or whatever) that pre-dates "Planet" would have
been a completely different one that pre-dated "Battle"

The altered history "Battle" war took place hundreds of years earlier
than it should have done (Had history remain un-changed) due to the
time line being altered by the arrival of Zira and Cornelius.

For a more detailed explanation re-read Jeff Kruger's brilliant time
line essay in "Ape Chronicles"

Dave B.

In a message dated 6/6/00 8:38:08 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
dballard@... writes:

<< For a more detailed explanation re-read Jeff Kruger's brilliant time
line essay in "Ape Chronicles" >>
is this brilliant time line available online? and if so where?

Can anyone throw any light on the following:

Have any details been published concerning POTA archives vol 2?

What's the latest on the "POTA revisited" book?

Whatever happened to the proposed TV animated adaption of "Monkey Planet?"

Does anyone know where one can obtain the scripts for "Dark side of
the Earth" or "Planet of the Men?

How many chucks would a wood chucker chuck if a wood chucker could chuck wood?

(Okay, forget the last one)

Dave B.

> The altered history "Battle" war took place hundreds of years earlier
> than it should have done (Had history remain un-changed) due to the
> time line being altered by the arrival of Zira and Cornelius.

Dave makes a good point here. It would be interesting if the writers
had explored the "true" timeline more and gave us a flashback of the
apes' history (maybe from Cornelius' perspective). A good time to
have done this would have been in Escape... But of course, we're
left to fill in the pieces ourselves.

In a message dated 6/6/00 8:46:59 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
steven.temple@... writes:

<< It would be interesting if the writers
had explored the "true" timeline more and gave us a flashback of the
apes' history (maybe from Cornelius' perspective) >>

Would ape history be accurate? Would Cornelius have learned the truth about
his heritage in school or anwhere else? Or would history have been tainted by
the likes of Zaius and his predecessors, for all we know the alternate
history caused by Zira and Cornelius could be the actual history, but it just
evolved and changed so much over the years by cover ups..who knows?

>Last word from me on this subject... We've all seem to have forgotten
>that the Nuclear war (or whatever) that pre-dates "Planet" would have
>been a completely different one that pre-dated "Battle"
>
>The altered history "Battle" war took place hundreds of years earlier
>than it should have done (Had history remain un-changed) due to the
>time line being altered by the arrival of Zira and Cornelius.

That's assuming the timeline was ever altered. Another interpretation is
that Taylor's arrival in the future actually CAUSED the ape planet thing to
happen - Zira and Cornelius fly back in time with his ship and sire the
Planet of the Apes. After John Huston's 2670 AD story hour, there's still
1300 years to get from that point to mute humans in cages and loincloth
bikinis. "Lawgiver, who knows about the future?" "Perhaps, only the dead."
Pan to Caesar statue crying, because he "knows about the future", and it's
f****d.

Not brilliant or detailed, but I like it better.
____________

> Philip Nobile wrote:
> That's assuming the timeline was ever altered.

That's right. I guess it's open to interpretation... On one hand, we
have one reality that cycles over and over with no change. And then
we have Virgil's "lane" theory with the infinite possibilities of change.
You could apply this to the Terminator movies as well. If you try to
alter the future...are your attempts futile in the end?

Of course if you throw the TV series in to the mix... aw, nevermind.
:)

>And then
>we have Virgil's "lane" theory with the infinite possibilities of change.

You're gonna take Paul Williams' word over mine? Please.

>Of course if you throw the TV series in to the mix... aw, nevermind.

The weird thing is, the series ALMOST fits in with the timeline - it's about
halfway between Battle and Planet, around 3070, I think? Humans are doing
much worse than they were in Battle, but they're not looking like Captain
Caveman yet, either. I can't explain how dogs managed their Phoenix-like
rebound from extinction, though.
____________

Phil Nobile wrote:
I can't explain how dogs managed their Phoenix-like rebound from
extinction, though.

Hi Philip,

No matter how virulent a plague or virus may happen to be it never
wipes out 100% of its victims.

Armando was probably just generalizing with his explanation to
Caeser. Even if the plague accounted for 99.99% of the Cat and Dog
population that would still leave thousands of the little buggers
keeping us awake at night.

Sure they'd become endangered and maybe illegal for private citizens
to own but enough would survive to make a comeback.

And before someone says "It's just a film" It's still fun trying to
justify and explain everything.

Dave B.

> Philip Nobile wrote:
> I can't explain how dogs managed their Phoenix-like rebound from extinction, though.

Maybe it was like "The Stand" and only a few good and bad doggies survived.
Seriously though...I guess the virus strain must have spared a few here
and there.
Or maybe some scientists were dabbling in genetic cloning (prior to the revolution)
and were trying to restock. Gotta love those continuity problems...

> You're gonna take Paul Williams' word over mine? Please.

Oops. Sorry Phil. I forgot that he also played "Little Ennis" in
Smokey and
the Bandit. What was I thinking? :)

>Would ape history be accurate? Would Cornelius have learned the truth about
>his heritage in school or anwhere else? Or would history have been tainted
>by
>the likes of Zaius and his predecessors, for all we know the alternate
>history caused by Zira and Cornelius could be the actual history, but it
>just
>evolved and changed so much over the years by cover ups..who knows?

Cornelius tells a story that could support either argument - he says that
the ape who first said "no" was Aldo. This could mean that Aldo was
SUPPOSED to be the savior, and Caesar's arrival messed all that up. Since
Aldo was a complete idiot, however, I think that Caesar was always the ape
messiah, and somewhere along the way, gorillas gained more power, and some
revisionist history was written.

Yeah, I know it's all nothing but a bunch of continuity goofs, but it's fun
to connect the dots.
____________

Hey, have you noticed that the humans speech patterns and I.Q is much
simpler in the TV show. Is this the result of a down trodden society
or the first signs of some disease that will eventually reduce them
to cavemen.

> > You're gonna take Paul Williams' word over mine? Please.
>
>Oops. Sorry Phil. I forgot that he also played "Little Ennis" in
>Smokey and
>the Bandit. What was I thinking? :)

His shining moment was in Phantom of the Paradise. I know we're getting off
topic, but if you want to see a film that could ONLY be made in the mid 70s,
rent that one right away.
____________