In a message dated 4/1/01 9:31:05 PM Central Daylight Time, Haristas@...
writes:

<< and she said apes aren't able to

> pronounce consonants (r, d, s, h, etc.) >>

Come to think of it I don't think she said much more than hello.
And H is just bearly a consonant.
And the way Brits say it, it isn't, even.

.htmlI don't doubt FOX said a new APES movie is their most requested film.But,I
also look at it with some skepticism.They may just be saying that to try to
build an audience for this movie of theirs.Like I mean people at large fall
for promotion,and FOX may be saying it to get people to think "Oh,its a
requested project,I better see it so I don't miss out..."I know how people
think they can convince people with cheap marketing acts,and this may be one
of FOX's marketing ploys."Building" an audience to create an audience......

Its only a thought...<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: mlccougar@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 8:17 PM

Subject: Re: [pota] Star Wars = Apes

I don't doubt FOX said a new APES movie is their most requested film.But,I
also look at it with some skepticism.They may just be saying that to try to
build an audience for this movie of theirs.Like I mean people at large fall
for promotion,and FOX may be saying it to get people to think "Oh,its a
requested project,I better see it so I don't miss out..."I know how people
think they can convince people with cheap marketing acts,and this may be one
of FOX's marketing ploys."Building" an audience to create an audience......

Its only a thought...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/1/01 7:55:36 PM Central Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

Amen. I think it's true that Paley killed it, plus that the "adults" back
then didn't take science fiction seriously. "Star Trek" was cancelled too
and became a cartoon show. They threw "Apes" on Friday night (I heard
originally it was supposed to be on Tuesdays) where it was up against stiff
"adult" sitcoms. They could've tried another night but I think Paley killed
it.

 "Star Wars": No, it's definitely not science fiction. To me "science
fiction" means within the realm of science. When Lucas said, "A long time
ago in a galaxy far, far away" he meant "Once upon a time".  I enjoy "Star
Wars" but over the years every time I watch it it diminishes. I can't say
that about "Apes", even as I lament the budgets. The stories, even "Battle"
hold my interest, and the actors even though someone here called them "B"
actors.                   - - - - Jeff


Jeff,

I also heard that APES was supposed to be on TUESDAY nights.They really
should have put it on then,because then and now,Friday nights are known as
the place to put shows you want to get rid of.If they were bitchin' about the
kids watching then it should have been moved to a more "watched" night.

Also,I am glad to see that some one else has the same definition of science
fiction as me.I was beginning to think I was the only one that paid attention
to the "science" part.I always thought of sci-fi as being taking what DOES
exist (or could theoretically exist) and going from there with it.Like taking
what exists now and doing a "what if "story,you know?

And I agree,APES never lost anything for me either.It is movie #1.I do agree
with you that they should have been given more budget per picture though.I
always hated that in ESCAPE,when they had those ugly ass "primitive"
apes.They should have just "robbed from peter to pay paul"and took a bit of
the budget and had decent makeups for that gorilla.I mean they could have had
a 1 day shoot with the gorilla actor and it would have been done.He would
have looked better and the movie would have too.My problem with BATTLE has
always been that it is too light.I really wish it would have been closer to
the original script,more blood and CAESAR being the strong leader like he was
in CONQUEST.The story its self is not bad,but the cheapness does show.I like
CAESAR the revolutionary,not CAESAR the "let them live even though they just
tried to destroy us".The novelization is what that movie should have
been.Hell,even the book and record set is more of what should have been...But
enough about that.

And one more thing,you said that someone in this group has called the APES
actors "B"actors.I don't think they are at all.And if thats what they were
considered thats too bad.I  hate to be the one to bring up STAR WARS again,(I
thought I'd leave that alone from now on),but if the person that knocked the
APE actors by calling them "B" actors is a SW fan,watch what you say about
actors.I mean Mark Hamill isn't exactly a household name you know.And
Harrison Ford was a "B" actor too when he got going.It wasn't until "Raiders"
that he really became an "A" list actor.And how good of an actor do you have
to be to be in an Ewok suit?<.html

.htmlAbout the TV Show....

I was fifteen at the time so I can remember better than some here.  Yes, the
show was originally scheduled for Tuesday nights at 8 PM.  At nearly the last
minute it was changed to Friday nights.  I think I remember reading in
Variety at the time that CBS decided it would better attract the kids on
Friday night.  I suspect what happened is that a few weeks before the
premiere the execs at CBS saw the first show and didn't like what they saw,
hence the 'killer' time slot.  I also remember that the review for the first
episode in Variety was very negative, I especially remember them commenting
that the makeup "which was so convincing in 1968, now seems ridiculous" or
some such statement to that affect.  The ratings for the show, which everyone
thought would be through the roof, were dismal from the start.  That's what
killed the show. At the time it was the most expensive show on the air, and
it was something like 47 in the ratings.  You can't blame Paley for wanting
it off.  Afterward, I remember reading that Roddy McDowall was very depressed
about the show's failure.

Well, I was very depressed after seeing the first episode.  They really blew
it as far as I was concerned.  I didn't like that the humans were civilized
and not animals.  The show really should have been called "Planet of the
Humans with some Apes Running Around."  I think after fourteen episodes it
really died a merciful death.

I didn't see the show again until the Sci-Fi Channel reran it about eight
years go.  It was nostalgic to see it again, and its failings bothered me a
lot less now, but I still think it wasn't very good, tending to be too campy
at times.  I haven't seen it since.  I think that now that Roddy is gone I'll
find it kind of sad.

However, I think it would be great if Fox put it out on DVD, and if the new
film is a huge hit then I would expect that when the Burton version comes to
DVD, the classic APES films -- remastered for anamorphic TV -- and TV show
will too.  However, from long experience I can tell you, you never know with
Fox.  The best thing I can say is if they get enough requests for it, they
'might' do it.  So, a letter to Fox can't hurt.

-- Rory<.html

Courtesy of, and Copyright, "The Astounding B-Monster"

Omega Man is no Piece Keeper

According to a report in the Toronto Sun, Charlton Heston literally flipped his wig at a recent personal appearance. It seems he was waving from the sunroof of his limo just as the driver decided to give 'er the gun. Heston's toupee went flying and landed in the street, where it was retrieved by a bemused onlooker and handed back to the NRA prez who proceeded to berate his lead-footed chauffeur.

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 9:33 PM

Subject: Re: [pota] I wish I knew who to talk to at FOX

About the TV Show....

I was fifteen at the time so I can remember better than some here.  Yes, the
show was originally scheduled for Tuesday nights at 8 PM.  At nearly the last
minute it was changed to Friday nights.  I think I remember reading in
Variety at the time that CBS decided it would better attract the kids on
Friday night.  I suspect what happened is that a few weeks before the
premiere the execs at CBS saw the first show and didn't like what they saw,
hence the 'killer' time slot.  I also remember that the review for the first
episode in Variety was very negative, I especially remember them commenting
that the makeup "which was so convincing in 1968, now seems ridiculous" or
some such statement to that affect.  The ratings for the show, which everyone
thought would be through the roof, were dismal from the start.  That's what
killed the show. At the time it was the most expensive show on the air, and
it was something like 47 in the ratings.  You can't blame Paley for wanting
it off.  Afterward, I remember reading that Roddy McDowall was very depressed
about the show's failure.

Well, I was very depressed after seeing the first episode.  They really blew
it as far as I was concerned.  I didn't like that the humans were civilized
and not animals.  The show really should have been called "Planet of the
Humans with some Apes Running Around."  I think after fourteen episodes it
really died a merciful death.

I didn't see the show again until the Sci-Fi Channel reran it about eight
years go.  It was nostalgic to see it again, and its failings bothered me a
lot less now, but I still think it wasn't very good, tending to be too campy
at times.  I haven't seen it since.  I think that now that Roddy is gone I'll
find it kind of sad.

However, I think it would be great if Fox put it out on DVD, and if the new
film is a huge hit then I would expect that when the Burton version comes to
DVD, the classic APES films -- remastered for anamorphic TV -- and TV show
will too.  However, from long experience I can tell you, you never know with
Fox.  The best thing I can say is if they get enough requests for it, they
'might' do it.  So, a letter to Fox can't hurt.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html   Bill Blake told me that they used a famous troupe to play the "primitive" apes in "Escape" and "Conquest". They were famed for playing apes in a show. But they insisted on using their own costumes.                                    - - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----

From: mlccougar@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2001 9:01 PM

Subject: Re: [pota] I wish I knew who to talk to at FOX

In a message dated 4/1/01 7:55:36 PM Central Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

Amen. I think it's true that Paley killed it, plus that the "adults" back
then didn't take science fiction seriously. "Star Trek" was cancelled too
and became a cartoon show. They threw "Apes" on Friday night (I heard
originally it was supposed to be on Tuesdays) where it was up against stiff
"adult" sitcoms. They could've tried another night but I think Paley killed
it.

 "Star Wars": No, it's definitely not science fiction. To me "science
fiction" means within the realm of science. When Lucas said, "A long time
ago in a galaxy far, far away" he meant "Once upon a time".  I enjoy "Star
Wars" but over the years every time I watch it it diminishes. I can't say
that about "Apes", even as I lament the budgets. The stories, even "Battle"
hold my interest, and the actors even though someone here called them "B"
actors.                   - - - - Jeff

Jeff,

I also heard that APES was supposed to be on TUESDAY nights.They really
should have put it on then,because then and now,Friday nights are known as
the place to put shows you want to get rid of.If they were bitchin' about the
kids watching then it should have been moved to a more "watched" night.

Also,I am glad to see that some one else has the same definition of science
fiction as me.I was beginning to think I was the only one that paid attention
to the "science" part.I always thought of sci-fi as being taking what DOES
exist (or could theoretically exist) and going from there with it.Like taking
what exists now and doing a "what if "story,you know?

And I agree,APES never lost anything for me either.It is movie #1.I do agree
with you that they should have been given more budget per picture though.I
always hated that in ESCAPE,when they had those ugly ass "primitive"
apes.They should have just "robbed from peter to pay paul"and took a bit of
the budget and had decent makeups for that gorilla.I mean they could have had
a 1 day shoot with the gorilla actor and it would have been done.He would
have looked better and the movie would have too.My problem with BATTLE has
always been that it is too light.I really wish it would have been closer to
the original script,more blood and CAESAR being the strong leader like he was
in CONQUEST.The story its self is not bad,but the cheapness does show.I like
CAESAR the revolutionary,not CAESAR the "let them live even though they just
tried to destroy us".The novelization is what that movie should have
been.Hell,even the book and record set is more of what should have been...But
enough about that.

And one more thing,you said that someone in this group has called the APES
actors "B"actors.I don't think they are at all.And if thats what they were
considered thats too bad.I  hate to be the one to bring up STAR WARS again,(I
thought I'd leave that alone from now on),but if the person that knocked the
APE actors by calling them "B" actors is a SW fan,watch what you say about
actors.I mean Mark Hamill isn't exactly a household name you know.And
Harrison Ford was a "B" actor too when he got going.It wasn't until "Raiders"
that he really became an "A" list actor.And how good of an actor do you have
to be to be in an Ewok suit?

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

<< They were famed for playing apes in a show. But they insisted on using
their own costumes. >>

Man, that gorilla in Escape sucked!
I Have seen better apes on Gilligan's Island!

It also bugged me in "Conquest" how the caged Orang-utans didn't look
anything like the other Orang-utans featured in the film.

LordTZer0@... wrote:

> << They were famed for playing apes in a show. But they insisted on using
> their own costumes. >>
>
> Man, that gorilla in Escape sucked!
> I Have seen better apes on Gilligan's Island!
>
>
>
>
>

.htmlIn a message dated 4/2/01 1:32:37 AM Central Daylight Time, LordTZer0@...
writes:

Man, that gorilla in Escape sucked!
I Have seen better apes on Gilligan's Island

LordTZero,

I couldn't have said it better myself.

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/2/01 1:37:50 AM Central Daylight Time,
kentaylor@... writes:

It also bugged me in "Conquest" how the caged Orang-utans didn't look
anything like the other Orang-utans featured in the film.

Right on again man.I'm with you.

<.html

Wow!

What a POTA day. This has been one of the most active and best days on the
group in a while. Keep it up.

In a message dated 4/1/01 10:35:57 AM Central Daylight Time,
afryt4u@... writes:

<< Hi T,

How's the ol' Texas Prosthetic lab going these days?

B >>

Well, I haven't managed to auction off my scraps for $800 or anything, but a
couple years ago I did sell one of my originals for about a hundred to some
guy in Japan. I'm sure he could afford it. That's about it. Too busy with
school.

.html <.html

.html <.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/2/01 1:52:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

Roddy said the TV show character was his favorite. Perhaps it was just the
intense schedule. 14 episodes in the time it takes to make one movie. I
liked the show and it has it's fans. I don't try to compare it to the
movies. Each medium is different. When I talked to John Chambers, he saw an
episode and didn't like it. He complained there was an actor who lisped. I
just think it was a tough concept to try to do wek after week.

                                                                   - - - -
Jeff


Makeup-wise, one of the problems with the TV show was they didn't have the
time or money to do custom applience jobs on the actors.  So you had actors
often, in fact almost always wearing appliences that didn't fit.  They'd
close their mouths, for example, and the ape mouth would stay open, or the
chin piece was too small.  I guess they did the best they could, those makeup
people.  It's long over now.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/2/01 1:57:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

 Bill Blake told me that they used a famous troupe to play the "primitive"
apes in "Escape" and "Conquest". They were famed for playing apes in a
show. But they insisted on using their own costumes.                        
            - - - - Jeff

Bob Burns has a new book out, "It Came from Bob's Basement!"  He's got some
good stories to tell a about the various guys who played gorillas in show
business.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/2/01 2:37:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
kentaylor@... writes:

It also bugged me in "Conquest" how the caged Orang-utans didn't look
anything like the other Orang-utans featured in the film.

I was more bugged in "Conquest" by how much fatter McDowall was when Caesar
got 'naked.'   How did he fit all that fur in his clothes?

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/2/01 6:34:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, LordTZer0@...
writes:

Wow!

What a POTA day.  This has been one of the most active and best days on the
group in a while.  Keep it up.

I rather enjoyed it!

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/2/01 6:43:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
prophecysite@... writes:

But when one stands against something like the remake and be totaly negative
about it (without seeing the film) That is being a fanatic of the original
or any other POTA releases of the past.

I've always been possitive about all things, or at least I would watch
something before saying "I don't like it". Because when your negative right
off the bat without seeing something, that clearly means "You are a
fanatic".

This is not directed towards you Rory.
Just to those who thing they know so much...

Best,

Alex



I think what we have here with some are 'geeks' who've seen so many movies,
they can sort of predict this or that based on who's directing, or writing,
or producing.  I know I feel that way sometimes.  I've never been a big Tim
Burton fan, but in the case of this new APES movie, I think the script is the
thing.  I've read some bad things about, that the dialogue isn't that great.  
In many ways I don't want to think about it.  I hope this film is good and
well-liked by critics, as I've said before simply because if it's not it'll
be such an embarassment for POTA fans -- just one more thing we'll have to
apologize for -- like the way I feel I need to apologize for "BATTLE" or the
TV Show.

So, for that reason I'm trying to be very 'positive' about this new movie.

Like Oddball says in "Kelly's Heroes,"   "Positive waves, baby, positive
waves."

OH NO!!  I just quoted something!

-- Rory<.html

.html <.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 4:28 AM

Subject: Re: [pota] Primitive apes

In a message dated 4/2/01 2:37:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
kentaylor@... writes:

It also bugged me in "Conquest" how the caged Orang-utans didn't look
anything like the other Orang-utans featured in the film.

I was more bugged in "Conquest" by how much fatter McDowall was when Caesar
got 'naked.'   How did he fit all that fur in his clothes?

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 4:28 AM

Subject: Re: [pota] Primitive apes

In a message dated 4/2/01 2:37:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
kentaylor@... writes:

It also bugged me in "Conquest" how the caged Orang-utans didn't look
anything like the other Orang-utans featured in the film.

I was more bugged in "Conquest" by how much fatter McDowall was when Caesar
got 'naked.'   How did he fit all that fur in his clothes?

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Alexander Ruiz

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 5:31 AM

Subject: [pota] Re: Medicom display

I think what we have here with some are 'geeks' who've seen so many movies,
they can sort of predict this or that based on who's directing, or writing,
or producing.  I know I feel that way sometimes.  I've never been a big Tim
Burton fan, but in the case of this new APES movie, I think the script is the
thing.  I've read some bad things about, that the dialogue isn't that great.  
In many ways I don't want to think about it.  I hope this film is good and
well-liked by critics, as I've said before simply because if it's not it'll
be such an embarassment for POTA fans -- just one more thing we'll have to
apologize for -- like the way I feel I need to apologize for "BATTLE" or the
TV Show.

Well, personaly I believe in the end the real embarassment is going to be the original vs. the remake. Because we are talking about 30 years later with the latest "tech".

And as far as the script goes, believe me this storyline is a lot more complex than the original, as the original is pretty basic.

 

And I believe that in the end that is what original POTA are most affriad of.

Being out done by the remake and Tim Burton whom their not so fond of.

 

Great danger stands ahead for original POTA fans, and they know it!

But as origianl POTA fan, I welcome it...

Bring back the glory of Planet of the Apes and lets put childish things aside.

 

Know T knows what I mean by:

 

When I was a child, I thought as a child.

But when I became a man, I thought as a man...

 

A Quote from the bible :o)

 

Best,

 

Alex 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/2/01 8:28:57 AM Central Daylight Time,
whitty@... writes:

They could have had a human kill Milo so the "Ape Shall Never Kill Ape" rule
was not challenged - and they could have saved a fortune to pay to a new
script writer!  

The primitive gorilla would not have followed the LAWGIVERS rule of "Ape
shall not kill Ape".He was a primitive,and at this time the Sacred Scrolls
weren't written,so by the gorilla killing Milo,nothing was challenged.I mean
you can't break a law that hasn't been established.<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/2/01 8:19:47 AM Central Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

?

 Did the sauna scene in "Beneath" bother anyone?      


It did not bother me.I suppose it could have been done a little better,but
the URSUS "body" looked more in proportion (more realistic) to how he looked
in the outfit.I mean its not like he looked twice the size in the steam bath
as he did in his uniform.I will agree with the comment made on CAESAR,that
really did look way out of proportion.That should have been done better.<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/2/01 6:22:12 AM Central Daylight Time, Haristas@...
writes:

Makeup-wise, one of the problems with the TV show was they didn't have the
time or money to do custom applience jobs on the actors.  So you had actors
often, in fact almost always wearing appliences that didn't fit.  

Well I can't say for sure how the tv make-up fit on the actors,or not,but I
don't like the way DR.ZORAN looked so inconsistent.That has to be the worst
make-up job in the entire series.To me,he looks like 3 different Apes.Watch
"THE CURE" sometime,you'll see what I mean if you haven't noticed it
already.That said,I think "THE CURE" was a pretty good one otherwise.<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/2/01 9:19:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

Did the sauna scene in "Beneath" bother anyone?      - - - Jeff

Yes, especially since at the beginning of the scene when the gorilla is
pouring the water on the hot rocks, you can see the arm of the gorilla suit
split at the wrist.

One of these days I'm going to get around to telling where all the bloopers
in the APES films can be found -- and the original has more than its fair
share.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/2/01 5:44:07 AM Central Daylight Time,
prophecysite@... writes:

But when one stands against something like the remake and be totaly negative
about it (without seeing the film) That is being a fanatic of the original
or any other POTA releases of the past.

I am guilty as charged here and I won't deny it.I have said it,I am against
the new movie,I will not argue that.I don't like that they are calling it
POTA which it is not,its not even future EARTH for one thing,so its not POTA
as I see it.If they would have called it "THE VISITOR"-inspired by Planet of
the Apes" or something like that, I wouldn't have been as against it.But
apparently they are going to call it POTA,which I really feel it isn't.To
paraphrase ABORO here "One can say anything DAKU,that does not make it
true".That is how I feel.Fox is calling it POTA,but that doesn't make it
POTA.They are saying something that is not true as I see it.I guess if you
don't know that I'm against the movie now,you never will.If my being
"negative" about the so called "new APES movie" makes me a fanatic in your
eyes,then so be it,I'm a fanatic.

You mentioned people standing against the film and being negative about it,on
the grounds that its wrong to judge what you haven't seen.Well what about the
people like you that are going gung ho about this movie,saying its going to
be the greatest thing since sliced bread.To me,your being all for the new
movie without seeing it is as wrong to me as my being against it is wrong to
you.You are blindly following something on its title alone,which makes no
sense either.

And just to clarify,I don't neccessarily mean YOU when I say "you".I mean
"you" in the general term.I mean you and the others that have the same ideas
as you in this debate.I'm not trying to make it seem like I have a personal
grudge against you.I don't.

Well I think I've established my feelings here,and I don't think I'll beat
this dead horse anymore.I think unless there is something that has to be said
on this debate,I'm done with it.We will never change each others minds,at
least mine won't be changed anyway.So I'm ready to drop it,at least for
now.I'm ready to get on to more important things,like favorite
characters/episodes/movies,etc...and time line debates and that type of
thing.I may get the ball rolling on that if someone else doesn't.

"Brain washing?Ah yes,I remember hearing something vaguely about
that.Brainwashing,isn't that where you take the brain out of the skull and
wash it in cool water."-URKO in "THE INTERROGATION"  (not an exact quote I
know,but I always liked that line.)<.html

.htmlLet us not forget, folks, that in the original Dr. Zaius threatened Cornelius
and Zira with hanging for high treason.

The "Ape Shall Never Kill Ape" thing was a Paul Dehn invention for BENEATH.

It's another of the inconsistencies of the series, like the earth date being
3978 in the original, then 3955 for the rest of the series.

I try to ignore it.

-- Rory<.html

.html <.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/2/01 1:52:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mlccougar@...
writes:

Well I can't say for sure how the tv make-up fit on the actors,or not,but I
don't like the way DR.ZORAN looked so inconsistent.That has to be the worst
make-up job in the entire series.To me,he looks like 3 different Apes.Watch
"THE CURE" sometime,you'll see what I mean if you haven't noticed it
already.That said,I think "THE CURE" was a pretty good one otherwise.

Every so often in the TV show you'd see a good makeup job.  The one that
stands out in my memory was in the episode "Tomorrow's Tide."  In it an actor
named Jay Robinson, best known as Caligula in the Fox film's "The Robe" and
"Demetrius and the Gladiators," played an orangutan named Bandor.   He looked
excellent!  As good as Maurice Evans in the first two films.

By the way, "The Robe" was lensed by Leon Shamroy, who shot PLANET, and
"Demetrius and the Galdiators" by Milton Krasner, who shot BENEATH.

(Just a little 20th Century Fox trivia there.)

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/2/01 1:41:00 PM Central Daylight Time, Haristas@...
writes:

Yes, especially since at the beginning of the scene when the gorilla is
pouring the water on the hot rocks, you can see the arm of the gorilla suit
split at the wrist.

One of these days I'm going to get around to telling where all the bloopers
in the APES films can be found -- and the original has more than its fair
share.

-- Rory

I too have seen the "split wrist"as you pointed out.I also over look that as
that gorilla is only on screen pouring water for a few seconds.

As far as pointing out the "bloopers",do it.I don't always like when that
stuff is pointed out,but it'd be something else to bring to the group.

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Alexander Ruiz

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 11:40 AM

Subject: [pota] Re: Medicom display

I am guilty as charged here and I won't deny it.I have said it,I am against
the new movie,I will not argue that.I don't like that they are calling it
POTA which it is not,its not even future EARTH for one thing,so its not POTA
as I see it.If they would have called it "THE VISITOR"-inspired by Planet of
the Apes" or something like that, I wouldn't have been as against it.But
apparently they are going to call it POTA,which I really feel it isn't.To
paraphrase ABORO here "One can say anything DAKU,that does not make it
true".That is how I feel.Fox is calling it POTA,but that doesn't make it
POTA.They are saying something that is not true as I see it.I guess if you
don't know that I'm against the movie now,you never will.If my being
"negative" about the so called "new APES movie" makes me a fanatic in your
eyes,then so be it,I'm a fanatic.

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

There are those who see the cup half empty, and there are those who see the cup half full.

 

And so to each his own...

 

Best,

 

Alex

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 11:30 AM

Subject: [pota] Ape Shall Never Kill Ape

Let us not forget, folks, that in the original Dr. Zaius threatened Cornelius
and Zira with hanging for high treason.

The "Ape Shall Never Kill Ape" thing was a Paul Dehn invention for BENEATH.

It's another of the inconsistencies of the series, like the earth date being
3978 in the original, then 3955 for the rest of the series.

I try to ignore it.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/2/01 1:31:33 PM Central Daylight Time, Haristas@...
writes:

Let us not forget, folks, that in the original Dr. Zaius threatened
Cornelius
and Zira with hanging for high treason.

The "Ape Shall Never Kill Ape" thing was a Paul Dehn invention for BENEATH.

I have often kicked that around myself.I think its supposed to be the law for
the Ape population to follow in general.

But in the case of heretics and traitors,then I think the Ape hierachy kind
of changed it.I mean maybe they kind of say "Well look at him,he's a
traitor,that makes him less than an Ape.We can do away with this
corrupt,diseased 'former' Ape." Thus covering themselves by convincing the
population at large that what they're doing is ok,they are simply disposing
of a pestelence.They have enough control that they could do it.Maybe the
public at large doesn't always know what the leaders are doing to the
"defectors" and "enemies of the state".

In the tv series,that Zaius wants Galen killed because he was "diseased" by
Virdon and Burke.And I know Urko has Galen on his "death list" too.But the
"Ape shall never kill Ape" law was going on at the time of the tv
series,Galen makes a mention of it in the "VOLCANO" story on Power
records.But,like I said,they can probably "justify"executions to the
population at large,if they even know about it at all.

The hierarchy kept the secrets of man quiet for centuries,I'm sure they could
keep a few executions quiet too.

This is not my chisled in stone opinion, just a thought.I'm willing to read
any agreements/disagreements on this.Then again,maybe Haristas is right,maybe
it was just invented for "BENEATH".Lets hear some other opinions on this
matter.<.html

<< Did the sauna scene in "Beneath" bother anyone?> >

It did not bother me.I suppose it could have been done a little better,but
the URSUS "body" looked more in proportion (more realistic) to how he looked
in the outfit.I mean its not like he looked twice the size in the steam bath
as he did in his uniform.I will agree with the comment made on CAESAR,that
really did look way out of proportion.That should have been done better. >>

And it did seem a bit gay. I mean, why are there never any female apes
hanging around these guys? You'd think being a minister and a general they
could get all the action they want! "Where is your nest, Taylor? Where are
your women?"

In a message dated 4/2/01 3:15:22 PM, williejoe@... writes:

<< The movie will be out soon enough and then we can judge. Meanwhile,
don't you guys realize there's a Spiderman movie being filmed? How can you
guys talk about "Apes" knowing that?! >>

Yeah, I was pretty pumped about it until a week or so ago. I love the casting
(Tobey Maguire as Spiderman/Peter Parker and William DaFoe as the Green
Goblin). The Spidey suit looks great, but then pics of the Green Goblin
suited started popping up on the web (natch) and I started to get nervous.
The Goblin looks like a Power Ranger!

Matt

In a message dated 4/2/01 1:31:28 PM Central Daylight Time, Haristas@...
writes:

<< It's another of the inconsistencies of the series, like the earth date
being
3978 in the original, then 3955 for the rest of the series. >>

Yeah, Milo rolled the odometer back so Zira and Cornelius would think they
were getting a newer model.

In a message dated 4/2/01 1:43:38 PM Central Daylight Time, Haristas@...
writes:

<< In it an actor
named Jay Robinson, best known as Caligula in the Fox film's "The Robe" and
"Demetrius and the Gladiators," played an orangutan named Bandor. >>

"Go then! Into your Kingdom!"
Sorry about the quote. I just think Jay was so over the top it was cool.

.htmlIn a message dated 4/2/01 1:43:04 PM Central Daylight Time, Haristas@...
writes:

Every so often in the TV show you'd see a good makeup job.  The one that
stands out in my memory was in the episode "Tomorrow's Tide."  In it an
actor
named Jay Robinson, best known as Caligula in the Fox film's "The Robe" and
"Demetrius and the Gladiators," played an orangutan named Bandor.   He
looked
excellent!  As good as Maurice Evans in the first two films.

Agreed.With the exception of the back ground orangs and those in BATTLE,most
of the orangutans looked pretty good.Zaius in "The Legacy" being one of the
best makeup jobs.Same with the gorillas,Urko being a particular favorite of
mine in the series,not to mention Percy Rodrigues as Aboro in "The
Tyrant",there was a stand out job.The tv chimps were the most "lacking" in my
opinion.They need some help.Anto and Zantes in "The Good Seeds" being good
examples.

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/2/01 2:15:35 PM Central Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

The movie will be out soon enough and then we can judge. Meanwhile, don't
you guys realize there's a Spiderman movie being filmed? How can you guys
talk about "Apes" knowing that?!                                         -
- - - - Jeff

I hope you are being sarcastic,because I have no interest in Spiderman or any
super-heroes.I wouldn't care if the Hulk and the Thing (from the Fantastic 4)
fought it out in a battle royale.I wouldn't see it.I know so little about
super-heroes and don't care either.I may even have his name wrong.

<.html

In a message dated 4/2/01 8:19:47 AM Central Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

<< I was more bugged in "Conquest" by how much fatter McDowall was when
Caesar got 'naked.' How did he fit all that fur in his clothes? >>

You know...They never seemed to have that problem in 2001 or Altered States.
Why then do all the naked apes in POTA have to wear the fur coats?

.htmlIn a message dated 4/2/01 2:19:28 PM Central Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

 Many societies regard murder and capital punishment as different things.  
                            Dr. Zauis apologist

Very well put.That is what I was trying to get at with my posting on the "Ape
shall never kill Ape" question.You summed up in one sentence what it took me
a few paragraphs to try to get out.I hope what I was trying to say came thru
in all of my ramblings though.Again,well put.I couldn't have said it better
myself.<.html

In a message dated 4/2/01 8:32:52 AM Central Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

<< It better be more complex. Tim Burton grew up with "Planet of the Apes"
and has had 30 years to think about it. But the original was complex for it's
day. - - - - - Jeff>>

Yeah but everyone seems to agree that the original script before they brought
in a couple new writers was brilliant! But just too expensive to shoot. I
for one would have liked to have seen that one! Maybe some copies of the
first draft will pop up.

<< Know T knows what I mean by:

When I was a child, I thought as a child.
But when I became a man, I thought as a man...

A Quote from the bible :o) >>

"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Gene Wilder, Willy Wonka~~~~~~~~~

.htmlIn a message dated 4/2/01 1:53:08 PM Central Daylight Time,
prophecysite@... writes:

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

There are those who see the cup half empty, and there are those who see the
cup half full.

Well I guess I see it half empty in your opinion.I can live with that.<.html

<< I hope this film is good and well-liked by critics, as I've said before
simply because if it's not it'll be such an embarassment for POTA fans --
just one more thing we'll have to apologize for -- like the way I feel I need
to apologize for "BATTLE" or the TV Show. >>

Let's all hope that doesn't happen. Who needs a set back like that!
If that's the case I'll stay away in droves, or as much of a drove as one
person can muster. I'm not saying it will suck. I just hope I don't have to
disown the thing entirely.
Who is it you hate?
"I don't hate anyone. I just don't care about them."
~~~~~ Sid Vicious~~~~~

"We blew it Billy. We really blew it."
~~~~Peter Fonda, Wyatt, Easy Rider~~~

BTW, Dennis Hopper did not write Easy Rider, Terry Sothern did!

Rod Serling did the first drafts. There's a web link that goes to an
article about how his ideas were changed. I think you can get there from
Alex's site. - - - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: <LordTZer0@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 12:50 PM
Subject: Re: [pota] Re: Medicom display


> In a message dated 4/2/01 8:32:52 AM Central Daylight Time,
> williejoe@... writes:
>
> << It better be more complex. Tim Burton grew up with "Planet of the Apes"
> and has had 30 years to think about it. But the original was complex for
it's
> day. - - - - - Jeff>>
>
> Yeah but everyone seems to agree that the original script before they
brought
> in a couple new writers was brilliant! But just too expensive to shoot.
I
> for one would have liked to have seen that one! Maybe some copies of the
> first draft will pop up.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

By the way, I hear William Broyles' first drafts were brilliant too, but
too expensive. Then they brought in the "Mighty Joe Young" hacks, etc.
History repeats itself. I'd like to read the draft Broyles wrote before
Zanuck got his hands on it!

- - - -
Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: <LordTZer0@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 12:50 PM
Subject: Re: [pota] Re: Medicom display


> In a message dated 4/2/01 8:32:52 AM Central Daylight Time,
> williejoe@... writes:
>
> << It better be more complex. Tim Burton grew up with "Planet of the Apes"
> and has had 30 years to think about it. But the original was complex for
it's
> day. - - - - - Jeff>>
>
> Yeah but everyone seems to agree that the original script before they
brought
> in a couple new writers was brilliant! But just too expensive to shoot.
I
> for one would have liked to have seen that one! Maybe some copies of the
> first draft will pop up.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.htmlIn a message dated 4/2/01 2:29:58 PM Central Daylight Time, LordTZer0@...
writes:

And it did seem a bit gay.  I mean, why are there never any female apes
hanging around these guys?  You'd think being a minister and a general they
could get all the action they want!  "Where is your nest, Taylor?  Where
are
your women?"

Well I don't think it was "gay" as you put it.It was after all,a private
meeting between 2 ape leaders.I'm sure sauna meetings go on between our
leaders too,that doesn't mean they are gay.I would never do it though,I can
promise you that.But like I said it was just where they were having their
debate,nothing more,nothing less.

I do agree with you though,they should have had female gorillas and
orangutans in the series (movies and tv) especially in the POTA funeral
scene.That always bugged me,all of the female mourners being female
chimps.That is one thing I would correct in that movie.But Dr.Zaius must have
"got some action" as you say because he does have a grand daughter after
all.So with out any kids,he'd have no grand children.and I'll just assume
that Ursus had a family,unless he was too busy establishing his power to
bother looking for a mate.He may have been strictly a career ape,who
knows.And Urko also had a wife.Had the series continued,maybe we would have
seen her.Who knows?

What I really hate though is having the apes call each other "men".Like in
Beneath,Ursus says"Men,over there"and in "The Surgeon" Kira says to Galen "Do
you think that man is a fool?"That should never have been.It also is in the
books too.Again,that shouldn't have been either.It could not be too hard to
think of a substitute word.I mean why would they refer to each other as
something they hate (men)?At least in one of the books,when the astronauts
say something about the gorillas,they call them "men" and Galen is
offended.That is something they should have paid more attention to.

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: mlccougar@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 1:21 PM

Subject: Re: [pota] Primitive apes

In a message dated 4/2/01 2:29:58 PM Central Daylight Time, LordTZer0@...
writes:

And it did seem a bit gay.  I mean, why are there never any female apes
hanging around these guys?  You'd think being a minister and a general they
could get all the action they want!  "Where is your nest, Taylor?  Where
are
your women?"

Well I don't think it was "gay" as you put it.It was after all,a private
meeting between 2 ape leaders.I'm sure sauna meetings go on between our
leaders too,that doesn't mean they are gay.I would never do it though,I can
promise you that.But like I said it was just where they were having their
debate,nothing more,nothing less.

I do agree with you though,they should have had female gorillas and
orangutans in the series (movies and tv) especially in the POTA funeral
scene.That always bugged me,all of the female mourners being female
chimps.That is one thing I would correct in that movie.But Dr.Zaius must have
"got some action" as you say because he does have a grand daughter after
all.So with out any kids,he'd have no grand children.and I'll just assume
that Ursus had a family,unless he was too busy establishing his power to
bother looking for a mate.He may have been strictly a career ape,who
knows.And Urko also had a wife.Had the series continued,maybe we would have
seen her.Who knows?

What I really hate though is having the apes call each other "men".Like in
Beneath,Ursus says"Men,over there"and in "The Surgeon" Kira says to Galen "Do
you think that man is a fool?"That should never have been.It also is in the
books too.Again,that shouldn't have been either.It could not be too hard to
think of a substitute word.I mean why would they refer to each other as
something they hate (men)?At least in one of the books,when the astronauts
say something about the gorillas,they call them "men" and Galen is
offended.That is something they should have paid more attention to.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html In a message dated 4/2/01 8:28:57 AM Central Daylight Time,
whitty@... writes:

They could have had a human kill Milo so the "Ape Shall Never Kill Ape" rule
was not challenged - and they could have saved a fortune to pay to a new
script writer!  

The primitive gorilla would not have followed the LAWGIVERS rule of "Ape
shall not kill Ape".He was a primitive,and at this time the Sacred Scrolls
weren't written,so by the gorilla killing Milo,nothing was challenged.I mean
you can't break a law that hasn't been established.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .
<.html

Check out www.fandom.com/SmilinJackRuby/. They have shots from a Trek
Con held this past weekend in Pasadena. Click on the day one summary and
scroll to the bottom. There's a shot of Linda H. & Cary Taragawa at the
autograph table. Thought everyone might enjoy it. John

.html

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .
<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/2/01 3:19:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

 Many societies regard murder and capital punishment as different things.   
                           Dr. Zauis apologist

Very good.<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Michael Whitty

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 2:33 PM

Subject: RE: [pota] Primitive apes

Well, Aldo sorts out the hypocracy in Battle anyway and then the big guy Caesar does his own bit to kill ape.

 

At the time, no one was aware that chimps hunt down small monkeys to eat (really quite amazing, and disgusting, to observe a group of chimps pull of a cunning plan to hunt and eat a baby monkey).

 

I always thought of "Ape Shall Never Kill Ape" as similar to a Commandment anyway - a good rule that is broken often!

 

-----Original Message-----
From: mlccougar@... [mlccougar@...]
Sent: Tuesday, 3 April 2001 3:14
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [pota] Primitive apes

In a message dated 4/2/01 8:28:57 AM Central Daylight Time,
whitty@... writes:

They could have had a human kill Milo so the "Ape Shall Never Kill Ape" rule
was not challenged - and they could have saved a fortune to pay to a new
script writer!  

The primitive gorilla would not have followed the LAWGIVERS rule of "Ape
shall not kill Ape".He was a primitive,and at this time the Sacred Scrolls
weren't written,so by the gorilla killing Milo,nothing was challenged.I mean
you can't break a law that hasn't been established.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/2/01 3:57:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mlccougar@...
writes:

The movie will be out soon enough and then we can judge. Meanwhile, don't
you guys realize there's a Spiderman movie being filmed? How can you guys
talk about "Apes" knowing that?!                                         -
- - - - Jeff

I hope you are being sarcastic,because I have no interest in Spiderman or
any
super-heroes.I wouldn't care if the Hulk and the Thing (from the Fantastic
4)
fought it out in a battle royale.I wouldn't see it.I know so little about
super-heroes and don't care either.I may even have his name wrong.


Man, or Apes, we need to get a lot more hip in this group as to just when
you're being put on.<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/2/01 3:58:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, LordTZer0@...
writes:

<< In it an actor
named Jay Robinson, best known as Caligula in the Fox film's "The Robe" and
"Demetrius and the Gladiators," played an orangutan named Bandor.  >>

"Go then!  Into your Kingdom!"
Sorry about the quote.  I just think Jay was so over the top it was cool.  

Jay Robinson is the best thing in those two films!

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/2/01 5:29:57 PM Central Daylight Time,
whitty@... writes:

Alex,

The problem here is that you see the cup overflowing with champagne and
others see the cup as empty and discintegrating.

Michael


Michael,

Very well put......
Thats a very good line.I of course being one who sees the cup not only as
empty and disintergrating,but heading for the garbage very quickly.

(I know Alex,I'm just too damn negative...but apparently I'm not the only
one.)<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/2/01 4:26:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mlccougar@...
writes:

What I really hate though is having the apes call each other "men".Like in
Beneath,Ursus says"Men,over there"and in "The Surgeon" Kira says to Galen
"Do
you think that man is a fool?"That should never have been.It also is in the
books too.Again,that shouldn't have been either.It could not be too hard to
think of a substitute word.I mean why would they refer to each other as
something they hate (men)?At least in one of the books,when the astronauts
say something about the gorillas,they call them "men" and Galen is
offended.That is something they should have paid more attention to.

Yeah, that using "men" made no sense.  They should have just used "apes."   
Also, I don't think you should say 'woman apes.'  You should say 'female
apes' or as Boulle does in the book 'she-apes.'

I think Morton Haack designed a female gorilla costum for the first film, but
it was never used.  I'll have to check the funeral scene again in PLANET to
see if I can spot that gorilla she-ape Jeff mentions.

-- Rory (he-ape)<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/2/01 6:13:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
whitty@... writes:

At the time, no one was aware that chimps hunt down small monkeys to eat
(really quite amazing, and disgusting, to observe a group of chimps pull of
a cunning plan to hunt and eat a baby monkey).

I think if Boulle had know this about chimpanzees, he might have made them
the hunters in the society, and had the gorillas be the intellectuals.   
Gorillas really are much more peaceful, reflective creatures.

If I were making a movie adaptation of the Boulle novel (Anybody got $100
million?), I'd seriously consider Cornelius and Zira being gorillas.  That
scene near the end of the book and film -- the Merou/Taylor and Zira "You're
so damned ugly" thing -- would really have more punch then.  Just a thought.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/2/01 5:13:37 PM Central Daylight Time,
whitty@... writes:

At the time, no one was aware that chimps hunt down small monkeys to eat
(really quite amazing, and disgusting, to observe a group of chimps pull of
a cunning plan to hunt and eat a baby monkey

Not entirely true whitty.In the novelization of ESCAPE,when they are
interrogating Zira and Cornelius,Zira says something about how they are
peaceful vegetarians,and one of the guys says "Don't try to pull that.I've
seen films of chimps bashing baby baboons skulls open and eating their
brains."Not a direct quote from the book,but it is in there.So even in
1973,they were becoming aware of chimps as hunters.<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/2/01 4:50:18 PM Central Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

 Anyway, I think Brian said there's a female gorilla in the funeral scene.
We have societies today that keep women sheltered, having to keep their
faces covered outdoors, etc.

I agree about the slipups using "men", "people", etc. to describe apes.
Also when they describe their own society as a "planet of the apes". The
cartoon series comes to mind, also when Breck says, "...the world will
belong to a planet of apes!"


I really don't think the female gorilla was in the scene.I know they designed
a female gorilla outfit,but I think thats as far as they went with it.They
should have used her though.

And you are so right about the RETURN series being guilty of describing the
Earth as the POTA.I'm with you on the Breck remark too,and let us not forget
CAESAR  and his line "Tonight,we have seen the birth of the Planet of the
Apes".Theres a line that should never have made it into the movie,it ruins
the effect of the whole film,it cheapened it.Well not just that
line,everything after(and including) Lisa saying:"n..n..nn..no"should have
been left out.It should have ended with"...And that day is upon you
now...."Thats where I usually stop the tape.<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/2/01 3:34:51 PM Central Daylight Time, LordTZer0@...
writes:

If that's the case I'll stay away in droves, or as much of a drove as one
person can muster

I'm already staying away in droves.

<.html

.htmlSo Raven, the weekend is over.  Did your little brother watch BENEATH?   What
did he think of the second installment?

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/2/01 6:07:48 PM Central Daylight Time, Haristas@...
writes:

Man, or Apes, we need to get a lot more hip in this group as to just when
you're being put on

I figured it WAS a put on,but from the postings in here,who can tell.I mean
we have people that think SW is better than APES,so you never know who the
big super-hero fan is in here.

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 4:14 PM

Subject: Re: [pota] Primitive apes

In a message dated 4/2/01 6:13:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
whitty@... writes:

At the time, no one was aware that chimps hunt down small monkeys to eat
(really quite amazing, and disgusting, to observe a group of chimps pull of
a cunning plan to hunt and eat a baby monkey).

I think if Boulle had know this about chimpanzees, he might have made them
the hunters in the society, and had the gorillas be the intellectuals.   
Gorillas really are much more peaceful, reflective creatures.

If I were making a movie adaptation of the Boulle novel (Anybody got $100
million?), I'd seriously consider Cornelius and Zira being gorillas.  That
scene near the end of the book and film -- the Merou/Taylor and Zira "You're
so damned ugly" thing -- would really have more punch then.  Just a thought.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/2/01 7:32:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mlccougar@...
writes:

And you are so right about the RETURN series being guilty of describing the
Earth as the POTA.I'm with you on the Breck remark too,and let us not
forget
CAESAR  and his line "Tonight,we have seen the birth of the Planet of the
Apes".Theres a line that should never have made it into the movie,it ruins
the effect of the whole film,it cheapened it.Well not just that
line,everything after(and including) Lisa saying:"n..n..nn..no"should have
been left out.It should have ended with"...And that day is upon you
now...."Thats where I usually stop the tape.

Hey Miccougar,

Have you ever read the CONQUEST script or novelization?  They include the
original ending for the film.  CONQUEST got cut-down and chopped-up and
redubbed to include its cop-out ending.  Fox was afraid the film would get a
R rating and then the kids wouldn't be able to see it.

Anyway, back in '72 when I first saw that scene where Caesar says, "Tonight
we have seen the birth of the Planet of the Apes!"   The hair on the back of
my neck stood up.  I thought it was great.  Still do.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlDoes anybody here know if they've completed principal photography on the new
film?

-- Rory<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: mlccougar@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 4:30 PM

Subject: Re: [pota] Planet of the Gaypes

In a message dated 4/2/01 4:50:18 PM Central Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

 Anyway, I think Brian said there's a female gorilla in the funeral scene.
We have societies today that keep women sheltered, having to keep their
faces covered outdoors, etc.

I agree about the slipups using "men", "people", etc. to describe apes.
Also when they describe their own society as a "planet of the apes". The
cartoon series comes to mind, also when Breck says, "...the world will
belong to a planet of apes!"

I really don't think the female gorilla was in the scene.I know they designed
a female gorilla outfit,but I think thats as far as they went with it.They
should have used her though.

And you are so right about the RETURN series being guilty of describing the
Earth as the POTA.I'm with you on the Breck remark too,and let us not forget
CAESAR  and his line "Tonight,we have seen the birth of the Planet of the
Apes".Theres a line that should never have made it into the movie,it ruins
the effect of the whole film,it cheapened it.Well not just that
line,everything after(and including) Lisa saying:"n..n..nn..no"should have
been left out.It should have ended with"...And that day is upon you
now...."Thats where I usually stop the tape.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: mlccougar@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 4:36 PM

Subject: Re: [pota] Smoke screen

In a message dated 4/2/01 6:07:48 PM Central Daylight Time, Haristas@...
writes:

Man, or Apes, we need to get a lot more hip in this group as to just when
you're being put on

I figured it WAS a put on,but from the postings in here,who can tell.I mean
we have people that think SW is better than APES,so you never know who the
big super-hero fan is in here.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 4:42 PM

Subject: [pota] Hey Anybody!

Does anybody here know if they've completed principal photography on the new
film?

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/2/01 6:42:58 PM Central Daylight Time, Haristas@...
writes:

Hey Miccougar,

Have you ever read the CONQUEST script or novelization?  They include the
original ending for the film.  CONQUEST got cut-down and chopped-up and
redubbed to include its cop-out ending.  Fox was afraid the film would get
a
R rating and then the kids wouldn't be able to see it.

Anyway, back in '72 when I first saw that scene where Caesar says, "Tonight
we have seen the birth of the Planet of the Apes!"   The hair on the back
of
my neck stood up.  I thought it was great.  Still do.

-- Rory

Yeah Rory,I have read the novelization of CONQUEST.I personally wish they
wouldnt have "gave in" to the mothers in the test audiences.I would have
liked it to have been closer to the original intention,but thats all over
with now,nothing I can do about it.But I think the fade to black with the
Apes vocalizations slowly getting louder and "THE END" would have been
cooler.A lot cooler.<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/2/01 6:51:29 PM Central Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

)

        6. "Planet of the Apes"


THIS SHOULD HAVE BEEN # 1,WHAT IS WRONG WITH THOSE PEOPLE!!!!????<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/2/01 6:51:29 PM Central Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

"

        4."Empire Strikes Back"


Sorry,this is "space fantasy" NOT sci-fi.<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/2/01 6:51:29 PM Central Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

1. "The Day the Earth Stood Still"

        2. "Clockwork Orange"
        3. "2001


I never seen these,so no comment.<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: mlccougar@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 4:58 PM

Subject: Re: [pota] Cinescape

In a message dated 4/2/01 6:51:29 PM Central Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

"

        4."Empire Strikes Back"

Sorry,this is "space fantasy" NOT sci-fi.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/2/01 6:44:39 PM Central Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

That's where it originally ended! But the studio made them tone it down and
put in that stupid voiceover. Someone here said "Battle" shouldn't have
been aimed at kids, but after what they went through on "Conquest", who can
blame them? Bring on the director's cut!                              

Yes,I am aware that that was where it originally was to have ended,that is
why I usually stop it there.

About BATTLE,yes I can see what you are saying,"you can't fight city
hall"(i.e.FOX).But I do wish APJAC and Thompson would have stood their ground
a little more.Then maybe BATTLE could have been a little more
"serious".Again,I don't hate BATTLE.I just wish it would have been closer to
what it was supposed to be.

And yes,BRING ON THE DIRECTORS CUT!!!!!!!!<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/2/01 7:04:52 PM Central Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

 Hey! You can't have a top 5 sci-fi list without at least one "Star Wars"
movie in it. You know that! Play by the rules.

                                    - - - - Jeff


I know it,but I don't neccesarily like it.But at least APES did get
recognition for once.Usually,its never in the top 50 or even top 100 of any
film list.So,I'll leave it go.(At least it wasn't JEDI in the top 10.)<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: mlccougar@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 5:12 PM

Subject: Re: [pota] Cinescape

In a message dated 4/2/01 7:04:52 PM Central Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

 Hey! You can't have a top 5 sci-fi list without at least one "Star Wars"
movie in it. You know that! Play by the rules.

                                    - - - - Jeff

I know it,but I don't neccesarily like it.But at least APES did get
recognition for once.Usually,its never in the top 50 or even top 100 of any
film list.So,I'll leave it go.(At least it wasn't JEDI in the top 10.)

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/2/01 7:55:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

They've completed principal photography but it's hard to tell. They're doing
alot of stuff designated "2nd Unit". They've got alot to mop up, especially
desert stuff. I hear they had bad weather in Arizona so they're shooting in
the California desert. Ralph Winter is apparently Fox's expert on crash
filmmaking when they need to make a release date (as with "X-Men"). I hear
they will be shooting into April. Probably a couple more weeks.             
                                 - - - - Jeff

Thanks, Williejoe!<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/2/01 7:59:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mlccougar@...
writes:

Yeah Rory,I have read the novelization of CONQUEST.I personally wish they
wouldnt have "gave in" to the mothers in the test audiences.I would have
liked it to have been closer to the original intention,but thats all over
with now,nothing I can do about it.But I think the fade to black with the
Apes vocalizations slowly getting louder and "THE END" would have been
cooler.A lot cooler.

And I think it would have been a lot cooler if the apes in CONQUEST had ape
shoes, and the gorillas had the fur collars as in the original, but like you
said, it's over.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/2/01 8:06:04 PM Central Daylight Time, Haristas@...
writes:

And I think it would have been a lot cooler if the apes in CONQUEST had ape
shoes, and the gorillas had the fur collars as in the original, but like
you
said, it's over.

-- Rory

Gorilla fur collars not only in CONQUEST,but BATTLE and the tv series as well
would have been nice.And yes,ape shoes would have been a nice touch too.<.html

In a message dated 4/2/01 7:43:05 PM, Haristas@... writes:

<<Anyway, back in '72 when I first saw that scene where Caesar says, "Tonight
we have seen the birth of the Planet of the Apes!" The hair on the back of
my neck stood up. I thought it was great. Still do.>>

Ditto. That blew me away when I saw it for the first time (I was about 7 or
8).

Matt

In a message dated 4/2/01 8:04:29 PM, mlccougar@... writes:

<<> 1. "The Day the Earth Stood Still"

> 2. "Clockwork Orange"
> 3. "2001
>

I never seen these,so no comment>>

Uhhh...what are you waiting for?? Go rent the DVDs or videos now!

Matt

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 6:02 PM

Subject: Re: [pota] Planet of the Gaypes

In a message dated 4/2/01 7:59:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mlccougar@...
writes:

Yeah Rory,I have read the novelization of CONQUEST.I personally wish they
wouldnt have "gave in" to the mothers in the test audiences.I would have
liked it to have been closer to the original intention,but thats all over
with now,nothing I can do about it.But I think the fade to black with the
Apes vocalizations slowly getting louder and "THE END" would have been
cooler.A lot cooler.

And I think it would have been a lot cooler if the apes in CONQUEST had ape
shoes, and the gorillas had the fur collars as in the original, but like you
said, it's over.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/2/01 9:30:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, MTotsky@...
writes:

<<> 1. "The Day the Earth Stood Still"
>          2. "Clockwork Orange"
>          3. "2001
>

I never seen these,so no comment>>

Uhhh...what are you waiting for?? Go rent the DVDs or videos now!

Matt

Yes, by all means, mlccougar, see these films soon.  I'd like to hear your
critique.

Hey, has anybody hear ever seen 1959's "Journey to the Center of the Earth"?  
 It's probably my second favorite 20th Century-Fox 'Sci-Fi' film next to
PLANET.  I know it's silly at times, but it has that Fox look, a great
Bernard Herrmann score, and James Mason.  Fox put out a re-mastered
letterboxed edition on laserdisc a few years ago.  An excellent transfer with
Dolby Digital 5.1 sound.  I hope it'll be out on DVD this year, but who knows.

Why am I bring this up?  I don't know.

-- Rory<.html

A friend was nice enough to send me a copy of the "Escape From the Planet of the Apes" CD (16 trax, 32 minutes-plus), but without a title listing of the cuts/music.

Would someone here be kind enough to list the soundtrack's "song" titles?

Thank you.

Sincerely,

Manny Dar

.htmlManny,

Sorry I can't help you there -- I'd like to find one myself -- but can you be
so kind as to tell me is it in stereo and how is the sound quality (is there
a lot of hiss)?

Thanks,

Rory<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 7:15 PM

Subject: Re: [pota] Cinescape

In a message dated 4/2/01 9:30:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, MTotsky@...
writes:

<<> 1. "The Day the Earth Stood Still"
>          2. "Clockwork Orange"
>          3. "2001
>

I never seen these,so no comment>>

Uhhh...what are you waiting for?? Go rent the DVDs or videos now!

Matt

Yes, by all means, mlccougar, see these films soon.  I'd like to hear your
critique.

Hey, has anybody hear ever seen 1959's "Journey to the Center of the Earth"?  
 It's probably my second favorite 20th Century-Fox 'Sci-Fi' film next to
PLANET.  I know it's silly at times, but it has that Fox look, a great
Bernard Herrmann score, and James Mason.  Fox put out a re-mastered
letterboxed edition on laserdisc a few years ago.  An excellent transfer with
Dolby Digital 5.1 sound.  I hope it'll be out on DVD this year, but who knows.

Why am I bring this up?  I don't know.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.htmlHey Jeff --

What's the article you're currently working on for Ape Chronicles, and what
was the most recent before that.  I really should join the POTA fan club
again to keep up with these things.

And, How long ago did you write that POTA vs. 2001 article?  I'd like to read
that sometime.

Also, I remember reading a posting of yours not too long ago about that
undeveloped reel of film from the Jacobs' archive.   How much do they think
it would cost to get it developed, and how do they know it's not fogged
already?

Also, about director's cuts.... I've never really cared about seeing what
CONQUEST was like before they cut it, but now I'm really interested.  Do you
think such a thing still exists?   Also, I was a little disappointed with the
"Behind" documentary that they didn't show the scene were Zira and Lucius are
stopped by gorilla police as they leave the city in PLANET.  Lou Wagner has
told Joe Russo that it was shot.

Knowing Fox, this stuff is probably all gone, but, knowing Fox, you never
know.

Oh yeah, I've been meaning to mention to the group...  Joe Russo, that's the
guy who has a "Making of POTA" book coming out in a couple months, told me
that he talked to Lou Wagner a couple weeks ago, and Lou wants one of those
Medicom Lucius'.   I don't know if he's gotten one yet, but I'll look into it.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/2/01 10:29:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

"Journey to the Center of the Earth"? Isn't that the movie Zanuck is
producing next? Rory, you poor thing! Just give me a list of your favorite
movies and I'll pass them on to Zanuck.

                                                          - - - - - Jeff


Funny.   I wish Zanuck would pass me some of the money he's gonna make off
APES again.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/2/01 9:17:26 PM Central Daylight Time, Haristas@...
writes:

Yes, by all means, mlccougar, see these films soon.  I'd like to hear your
critique

Thanks Rory,I may just have to do that.

And since you threw a non APES movie into your posting(Journey to the Center
of the Earth),I will too.Let me say,one movie I'd reccommend to the the group
is Paul Newman's "Cool Hand Luke".Its always been one of my favorites.On a
side note about "Cool Hand Luke",Buck Kartalian (Julius) has a small part in
it.

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/2/01 10:50:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
mlccougar@... writes:

And since you threw a non APES movie into your posting(Journey to the Center
of the Earth),I will too.Let me say,one movie I'd reccommend to the the
group
is Paul Newman's "Cool Hand Luke".Its always been one of my favorites.On a
side note about "Cool Hand Luke",Buck Kartalian (Julius) has a small part
in
it.

I watched it not long ago letterboxed on AMC.  One of my favorites, too.  
Very good, and very cool.<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/2/01 9:43:53 PM Central Daylight Time, Haristas@...
writes:

Also, I was a little disappointed with the
"Behind" documentary that they didn't show the scene were Zira and Lucius
are
stopped by gorilla police as they leave the city in PLANET.  Lou Wagner has
told Joe Russo that it was shot.

I'm sure it was shot,there is a photo of it in the movie cards,and in the 70s
POTA magazine there are photos too.Hell with just putting it in the "BEHIND
THE POTA" documentary,they should have put it in the widescreen DVDs.That and
all the other missing bits and pieces.Ialso would have liked to see the
entire Ursus speech,and the cut scene with Ursus,Zaius,and the Minister,and
the Ape-o-Nauts in the space ship too.

<.html

.htmlJust a question for the group.Are there any members of the group that had a
letter published in the 70s "POTA" magazine?

If so,have your views changed over the years or are your feelings on whatever
you wrote in about the same?

I just thought it'd be something to toss out to the group.<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 7:40 PM

Subject: [pota] Say Hey Willie

Hey Jeff --

What's the article you're currently working on for Ape Chronicles, and what
was the most recent before that.  I really should join the POTA fan club
again to keep up with these things.

And, How long ago did you write that POTA vs. 2001 article?  I'd like to read
that sometime.

Also, I remember reading a posting of yours not too long ago about that
undeveloped reel of film from the Jacobs' archive.   How much do they think
it would cost to get it developed, and how do they know it's not fogged
already?

Also, about director's cuts.... I've never really cared about seeing what
CONQUEST was like before they cut it, but now I'm really interested.  Do you
think such a thing still exists?   Also, I was a little disappointed with the
"Behind" documentary that they didn't show the scene were Zira and Lucius are
stopped by gorilla police as they leave the city in PLANET.  Lou Wagner has
told Joe Russo that it was shot.

Knowing Fox, this stuff is probably all gone, but, knowing Fox, you never
know.

Oh yeah, I've been meaning to mention to the group...  Joe Russo, that's the
guy who has a "Making of POTA" book coming out in a couple months, told me
that he talked to Lou Wagner a couple weeks ago, and Lou wants one of those
Medicom Lucius'.   I don't know if he's gotten one yet, but I'll look into it.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 7:44 PM

Subject: Re: [pota] The next "Journey"

In a message dated 4/2/01 10:29:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

"Journey to the Center of the Earth"? Isn't that the movie Zanuck is
producing next? Rory, you poor thing! Just give me a list of your favorite
movies and I'll pass them on to Zanuck.

                                                          - - - - - Jeff

Funny.   I wish Zanuck would pass me some of the money he's gonna make off
APES again.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html