From time to time I've seen the works of several creative individuals who
have taken a turn at creating their own POTA action figures. There is a guy
who runs an site called Ape Joe. I believe Phil's work can be found on the
Mego Musuem and others have improved the Hasbro 12 inch figures from a few
years ago. Has anyone taken a shot at custom Medicoms? If so, I would like to
see the results (as well as any other Mego or Hasbro customs). I am a toy
collector and enjoy checking out this kind of stuff.

Please share.

Matt

--- In pota@y..., MTotsky@a... wrote:

> Has anyone taken a shot at custom Medicoms?

http://www.geocities.com/philip336/chuck.jpg

I've seen the Ape Joes Matt,
But they are mighty pricey!

In a message dated 4/12/01 4:13:41 PM, pjn1209@... writes:

<< > Has anyone taken a shot at custom Medicoms?

http://www.geocities.com/philip336/chuck.jpg >>

Did you do a head swap between the two Taylors or just paint a beard on the
Astronaut version?

I want someone to make a Julius!

Matt

Yes......where the hell is "Little Guy?".

Vanessa, if you are reading these posts, maybe I was hasty to judge your so
called "cyber-stalker" without seeing any evidence.

On hindsight, I think is unfair to make such claims without evidence.
Vanessa could have said the same of ANY of us and I agree there are a few
other suspicious things going on and it could have been a "set up" by
someone who has a grudge.

Come to think of it, the most relevant thing Vanessa offered was that she
saw the first movie in Italy.

So, Vanessa, forward the e-mails to the group if you are serious. In this
country we have a rule until proven guilty" and there is a reason for that.
Don't interpret this as "nasty" please, I still have an open mind, but I am
not going to believe your claim just because you say so.

Oh, and bye Alex.....did you leave a parting gift for the group?

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Ballard [dballard@...]
Sent: Friday, 13 April 2001 3:27
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [pota] Re: Vanessa

Hmmmm... Is it me or does something not quite ring true here?

Last week we had "little guy brian" who came out of nowhere causing
friction within the group, this week it's the turn of "Vanessa" doing
the very same.

Have I been watching one too many episodes of the X-files?

And what is the function of a group moderator?

Is it time to decide amongst ourselves on a code of conduct? or does
anything go?

I'm with Matt, let's get back to talking Apes.

.htmlOkay, guys. That's enough. Vanessa has repeatedly refused to name the person
who harassed her. I hope you will all accept that, and not assume that anyone
specifically committed the offense. Getting a bit more negative however, I
will not stand for anyone here accusing Vanessa of lying, or demanding she
show her private e-mails to the group. She wants to just get on with the
discussion. Give her what she wants or don't. But do not accuse her of lying,
and demand proof.

-Caesar

List Moderator<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/12/01 4:10:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, MTotsky@...
writes:

Matt (who just broke down and ordered Eric Greene's book yesterday from
Amazon)

I think you'll find this book very interesting.  I have a hard time with it
when he gets around to BATTLE (Surprised anyone?), but most of the time this
book is amazing in what it covers.  It's especially good when Greene surveys
POTA's influence since the series has ended.  Great pictures too, that is if
you've ordered the revised paperback edition, but I'm sure you did.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/12/01 4:12:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, MTotsky@...
writes:

Speaking of books, are the old paperback novelizations of the films worth
getting? I have Boulle's original novel and BATTLE (haven't read it), but
not
any of the others. Is there any radically different scenes or
characterizations in these novels?

Matt

Matt, does the Ursus have a hairy butt?

-- Rory


<.html

.htmlClick here: eBay-AOL item 1423581722 (Ends Apr-19-01 09:40:02 PDT) - PLANET
of the APES REVISITED-"making of" BOOK

Mmmmm.  This looks interesting, but I think I'll wait.

I've e-mailed Joe Russo for what the story is on this.

-- Rory <.html

.html

>From: Haristas@...

>To: pota@yahoogroups.com

>Subject: Re: [pota] Primitive apes

>

>In a message dated 4/2/01 9:19:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

>williejoe@... writes:

>

>

> > Did the sauna scene in "Beneath" bother anyone? - - - Jeff

>

>Yes, especially since at the beginning of the scene when the gorilla is

>pouring the water on the hot rocks, you can see the arm of the gorilla suit

>split at the wrist.

>

>One of these days I'm going to get around to telling where all the bloopers

>in the APES films can be found -- and the original has more than its fair

>share.

>

>-- Rory

<.html

.html

>From: LordTZer0@...

>

>To: pota@yahoogroups.com

>Subject: Re: [pota] Primitive apes

>

><< Did the sauna scene in "Beneath" bother anyone?> >

>

> It did not bother me.I suppose it could have been done a little better,but

> the URSUS "body" looked more in proportion (more realistic) to how he looked

> in the outfit.I mean its not like he looked twice the size in the steam bath

> as he did in his uniform.I will agree with the comment made on CAESAR,that

> really did look way out of proportion.That should have been done better. >>

>

>And it did seem a bit gay. I mean, why are there never any female apes

>hanging around these guys? You'd think being a minister and a general they

>could get all the action they want! "Where is your nest, Taylor? Where are

>your women?"

<.html

I like the idea of the 2 or 3 episodes arc. Hell, DS9 & B5 did it very
well. I'd like to see it on one of the premium cable channels like HBO or
Showtime. More likely route would be syndication though. But it still comes
back to having an original idea and executing it well. John

Check out the Amok Time site. They have a new POTA toy sneak peak.
Enjoy, John

Anyone having trouble getting on the official site? I try getting on and
I clock & clock. Fox can be so friggin' lame sometimes! John

.htmlIn a message dated 4/12/01 3:38:18 PM Central Daylight Time,
LordTZer0@... writes:

I've seen the Ape Joes Matt,
But they are mighty pricey!

I've also seen the Ape Joes.Not only are they pricey,but they really aren't
too good looking.I'm sure with some time and effort,you could make as good of
a figure.

<.html

In a message dated 4/12/01 6:48:04 PM, Haristas@... writes:

<<Great pictures too, that is if you've ordered the revised paperback
edition, but I'm sure you did.>>

Yes I did. But if I hadn't been in this group, I wouldn't have known to do
that.

Matt

.html Okay, guys. That's enough. Vanessa has repeatedly refused to name the person
who harassed her. I hope you will all accept that, and not assume that anyone
specifically committed the offense. Getting a bit more negative however, I
will not stand for anyone here accusing Vanessa of lying, or demanding she
show her private e-mails to the group. She wants to just get on with the
discussion. Give her what she wants or don't. But do not accuse her of lying,
and demand proof.

-Caesar

List Moderator

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .
<.html

Can anyone tell me how to get on the Vanessa discussion group? I want to go
there and talk about Planet of the Apes.

Matt

Amen brother!

> Can anyone tell me how to get on the Vanessa discussion group? I want to

go

> there and talk about Planet of the Apes.
>
> Matt
>
>
>
>
>
>

--- In pota@y..., MTotsky@a... wrote:

> Can anyone tell me how to get on the Vanessa discussion group? I

want to go

> there and talk about Planet of the Apes.
>
> Matt

Damn. Matt's my new favorite list member.

Heston sighting: In the trailer for Town & Country, you stare numbly
at Warren Beatty and Garry Shandling, Goldie Hawn and Diante Keaton
(?) for about two minutes, then there's a quick shot of Chuck
saying "That sounds like kind of a HOMO thing." Then another quick
shot of him pumping a shotgun. I laughed. The end.

Hey,

That's funny Matt.

I agree we should get on with POTA talk, but we may want to consider some
ground rules for the group.

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: MTotsky@... [MTotsky@...]
Sent: Friday, 13 April 2001 13:31
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [pota] Vanessa

Can anyone tell me how to get on the Vanessa discussion group? I want to go
there and talk about Planet of the Apes.

Matt

OK Shelby,

How about you pick a topic?

Or were you praising the holy bomb when you said Amen?

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: Shelby Rhodes [slave1@...]
Sent: Friday, 13 April 2001 13:42
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [pota] Vanessa

Amen brother!

> Can anyone tell me how to get on the Vanessa discussion group? I want to

go

> there and talk about Planet of the Apes.
>
> Matt
>
>
>
>
>
>

.htmlIn a message dated 4/13/01 3:06:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
pjn1209@... writes:

Heston sighting: In the trailer for Town & Country, you stare numbly
at Warren Beatty and Garry Shandling, Goldie Hawn and Diante Keaton
(?) for about two minutes, then there's a quick shot of Chuck
saying "That sounds like kind of a HOMO thing." Then another quick
shot of him pumping a shotgun. I laughed.  The end.

Yeah, I've seen this, too.  Looks like ol' Chuck is making fun of himself.  
See, even he does it, too!   I'm going to have to go see "Town & Country."

-- Rory<.html

> OK Shelby,
>
> How about you pick a topic?

Sure, how about anything Planet of the Apes related as opposed to Vanessa
related?

>
> Or were you praising the holy bomb when you said Amen?
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shelby Rhodes [slave1@...]
> Sent: Friday, 13 April 2001 13:42
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [pota] Vanessa
>
> Amen brother!
>
>
> > Can anyone tell me how to get on the Vanessa discussion group? I want to
> go
> > there and talk about Planet of the Apes.
> >
> > Matt
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.htmlOk. I'm asking you all to STOP the Vanessa thread. She has made herself clear
in telling us she does not wish to talk about this any further. A number of
list members have shared that opinion. If anyone here has a comment about
this, please E-mail me privately. And to the member who allegedly harassed
Vanessa, please do the same, and e-mail me if you believe she is falsely
accusing you. I do want to hear your side too.<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/13/2001 5:47:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
whitty@... writes:

Hey,

That's funny Matt.

I agree we should get on with POTA talk, but we may want to consider some
ground rules for the group.

Michael

Anyone with group rule ideas, send me then privately.  I'll comply the ones
that are reasonable and submit them to the list for an opinions sometime this
week.

-Caesar.

<.html

FOX's home video release of Men of Honor includes the trailer for
Planet of the Apes.

<< And to the member who allegedly harassed Vanessa, please do the same, and
e-mail me if you believe she is falsely accusing you. I do want to hear your
side too.>>



Pul-lease! This is all I'm gonna say about it.
Yes, he did it.
He was so transparent anyone with half a brain knows he did it, and who it is.
Vanessa wants nothing done.
The perpetrator had better do nothing.
So I can do what I do best . . . nothing.
Enough said...now we can all pretend nothing happened.
Back to the Planet of the Oversexed Apes!

.html Gosh, I leave you folks alone for a  couple of days and some guy using the name of Vanessa gets himself into trouble!  What's up with that?

B

LordTZer0@... wrote:

<< And to the member who allegedly harassed Vanessa, please do the same, and
e-mail me if you believe she is falsely accusing you. I do want to hear your
side too.>>

Pul-lease!  This is all I'm gonna say about it.
Yes, he did it.
He was so transparent anyone with half a brain knows he did it, and who it is.
Vanessa wants nothing done.
The perpetrator had better do nothing.
So I can do what I do best . . . nothing.
Enough said...now we can all pretend nothing happened.
Back to the Planet of the Oversexed Apes!
 
 

<.html

In a message dated 4/13/01 1:33:48 PM, pjn1209@... writes:

<<http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1422317353>>

Go Brian Go!

Matt

<< Gosh, I leave you folks alone for a couple of days and some guy using the
name
of Vanessa gets himself into trouble! What's up with that? >>

LOL!!! :)
That's a good one!

Too bad there are any pics of Kim there.
Maybe after Brian has won he'll post them.

.html You know it baby!
 
 

MTotsky@... wrote:

In a message dated 4/13/01 1:33:48 PM, pjn1209@... writes:

<<http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1422317353>>

Go Brian Go!

Matt
 
 

<.html

.html Hey Gang,

Apemania.com will have a booth at this years Las Vegas Halloween Costume and Party tradeshow, and the cast of APEMANIA will be there "monkeying around " with visitors.

Anyone who wants to go, let me know and I'll send you some tickets.

Brian

<.html

I totally agree.

So pick one.

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: Shelby Rhodes [slave1@...]
Sent: Friday, 13 April 2001 22:17
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [pota] Topic

> OK Shelby,
>
> How about you pick a topic?

Sure, how about anything Planet of the Apes related as opposed to Vanessa
related?

>
> Or were you praising the holy bomb when you said Amen?
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shelby Rhodes [slave1@...]
> Sent: Friday, 13 April 2001 13:42
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [pota] Vanessa
>
> Amen brother!
>
>
> > Can anyone tell me how to get on the Vanessa discussion group? I want to
> go
> > there and talk about Planet of the Apes.
> >
> > Matt
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html In a message dated 4/13/2001 5:47:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
whitty@... writes:

Hey,

That's funny Matt.

I agree we should get on with POTA talk, but we may want to consider some
ground rules for the group.

Michael

Anyone with group rule ideas, send me then privately.  I'll comply the ones
that are reasonable and submit them to the list for an opinions sometime this
week.

-Caesar.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .
<.html

.htmlClick here: Ain't It Cool News - View Article

Hey people,

Aint it cool news has at least one picture up from the new POTA that I
haven't seen, and a bunch of talk back I'm going to read now.  It's almost
always good for some laughs.

-- Rory <.html

.htmlDear Michael, Bryan here I posted fox home video phone number at
1-888-223-2369 and address for apes tv series to be released on dvd or video
enough letters I was told will do the trick I thought I would let you know.
can we get a count of those who wrote and called? for our reference thanks
bryan
ps tell me more about the show in Vegas.  <.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/13/01 6:30:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Kay53531@...
writes:

Dear Michael, Bryan here I posted fox home video phone number at
1-888-223-2369 and address for apes tv series to be released on dvd or
video
enough letters I was told will do the trick I thought I would let you know.
can we get a count of those who wrote and called? for our reference thanks
bryan
ps tell me more about the show in Vegas.  

 


Don't forget that address:   Twentieth Century Fox Home Entertainment, P.O.
Box 900, Beverly Hills, CA  90213

-- Rory

<.html

Dear all,

just a quick email to let fellow pota fans know that (off topic stuff
approaching):

I've just had an article accepted for publication in Perspectives of New
Music, which is an august American Journal for Contemporary Music, based at
Univ of Washington.

All I need now is some good news from a certain publisher about a certain
other fiction item, and that'll be two the the three things that I'd like
happen this year.

M

.htmlIn a message dated 4/14/01 4:08:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
mark.gould@... writes:

I've just had an article accepted for publication in Perspectives of New
Music, which is an august American Journal for Contemporary Music, based at
Univ of Washington.

All I need now is some good news from a certain publisher about a certain
other fiction item, and that'll be two the the three things that I'd like
happen this year.

M

Good for you, Mark.

-- Rory


<.html

.htmlMichael Whitty asked me a while back for thoughts on if Heston is the one to
blame for the sequel we got with BENEATH.

Well, a lot of POTA fans like BENEATH and many more than the original.  But,
I think BENEATH is kind of a mess of a movie, and YES, I do think it would
have been better had Heston agreed to star in it.  First off, Heston could
have demanded another rewrite on the script, possibly from another writer.  
I've read that after Paul Dehn submitted his first draft, they went back to
Michael Wilson to ask him to improve it, but Wilson wanted too much money.

But, anyway, even though I think Heston was kind of a dick for not wanting to
do a sequel to POTA, I actually agree with him that from an artistic
viewpoint a sequel wasn't necessary, and that to do one was, as Heston put
it, "just further adventures among the monkeys."

What was the first film really about?  A world where man is beast and apes
the civilized rulers?  No.  It's really about how one arrogant, misanthropic
man gets his comeupance.  It's all about Taylor and what happens to him.  I
guess if the story has anything truly meaning full to say to the individual
it is that you shouldn't be a misanthrope, because if you are then you're
only going to see humanity as a mass of talking apes, and you'll just end up
all alone and, well, like Taylor at the end of the movie -- cursing humanity.

Still, Heston was so self-centered that he couldn't imagine there would be
much of a part for him to play in the sequel.  He even says in one of his
books that he didn't think his role in the first film had enough weight in
the final cut.  He expected more.

Well, the more he could have got was in a sequel where the Taylor character
is further developed along the lines of him trying to redeem himself by
redeeming humanity.  This was Boulle's idea with his "Planet of the Men"
script.

And that leads me to another posting.

-- Rory<.html

.html KONGRATS, Mark!  Bravo!  Keep up the good work!

Brian

Mark Gould wrote:

Dear all,

just a quick email to let fellow pota fans know that (off topic stuff
approaching):

I've just had an article accepted for publication in Perspectives of New
Music, which is an august American Journal for Contemporary Music, based at
Univ of Washington.

All I need now is some good news from a certain publisher about a certain
other fiction item, and that'll be two the the three things that I'd like
happen this year.

M
 
 

<.html

.htmlI think without Heston playing the main character, the people behind the
first sequel were sort of lost for what it should be about.  I've read that
director Ted Post threatened to quit unless Heston was in it (I've also read
that Post came to consider Heston an egomaniac.).  Richard Zanuck eventually
convinced his majesty the "great actor" to appear, but I don't think they
ever got it together enough to make a film they really cared about.   James
Franciscus was so unhappy with his role as written, he rewrote sixty odd
pages himself, most of which ended up in the final draft.

I've never thought BENEATH THE PLANET OF THE APES was that good.  It has cool
things in it, but just isn't as smart a movie as the first.  Here's the
review from Variety that pretty much sums it all up.

"'Beneath the Planet of the Apes' should be a surefire commercial success for
20th-Fox, provided that a hard-sell with very fast saturation playoff is
utilized.  This Arthur P. Jacobs production, a sequel to his 1968 smash,
'Planet of the Apes,' is hokey and slapdash, but appears to have been turned
out at a reasonable cost, which should make breakeven an early possibility.  
The story and Ted Post's direction fall far short of the original, but with
that pic's momentum to go on this quickie programmer should mop up prior to
overtaking word of mouth.

"Based on the Pierre Boulle characters, as developed in the first film's
script by Rod Serling and Michael Wilson, sequel bears a screenplay credit by
Paul Dehn, from his and associate producer Mort Abrahams' story.  Actually,
from a pure commercial point of view, the film makes sense: it has a pre-sell
in its progenitor, but the filmmakers avoided the pitfall of a more expensive
sequel.

"Film utilizes closing sequense of the original -- where Charlton Heston and
the silent Linda Harrison ride into an unknown country on the supposedly
unknown planet, only to find the head of the Statue of Liberty buried in the
sand.  Heston's curtain cry of anguish now is followed by new footage, as he
and Miss Harrison wander the vast wasteland, in which Heston suddenly
disappears.

"James Franciscus, top-featured, is yet another space explorer who
crash-lands, centuries out of time.  The ape civilization, representatively
encored herein by sophisticated scientist Kim Hunter and temporizing politico
Maurice Evans, now has a warlike military leader, James Gregory, urging a
holy war on the unknown interlopers in the forbidden territories.

"Turns out that these people are the nuclear-disfigured remnants of N.Y.,
their faces covered with masks of their original appearances to cover the
gruesome scars of fission and fusion.  Paul Richards, Victor Buono, Jeff
Corey, Natalie Trundy and Don Pedro Colley are among this group who worship a
nuclear weapon in a satire on Gregorian chant and religious rubrics.

"The plot boils over again and again, as Franciscus and Miss Harrison run,
jump, stop, look, listen, react, and repeat the cycle.  Heston appears in
some new footage, and Franciscus looks just like a twin brother by this time,
in face and in voice.  As observers to the climactic shoot-out between the
apes and the human survivors, the two men are killed in the nuclear holocaust
along with the others.  This might signal the end of the story, but not if
this film goes over. (If so, it isn't likely to utilize Miss Harrison, who's
now Mrs. Richard Zanuck -- Ed.)

"The dialog, acting and direction are substandard.  And with the exception of
Morton Haack's wardrobe design, Fred Harpman's realistic flats of N.Y.
landmark wreckage, and the superior John Chambers -- Dan Striepeke makeup
work, the technical special effects are clumsy.  Painfully obvious process
work, by technicians who have rightfully won awards for other work where
there presumably was more time available for top-flight achievement, betrays
the production motivation.  Incidentally, for film buffs, Roddy McDowall
couldn't make the sequel, but he is present in opening voiceover, from the
last scene in first pic, though David Watson assumes his role in new footage.
 And Miss Harrison speaks one word, 'Taylor,' when Heston reappears.

"Milton Krasner's Panavision-De-Luxe Color lensing is average, but Leonard
Rosenman's score, orchestrated by Ralph Ferraro, is very good in itself as
well as its attempt to pump drama into proceedings.  At 95 minutes (editing
by Marion Rothman), film is a trifle overpadded.
                                                                             
                   Murf."


Oh boy!  Talk about a review with spoilers!!!!   But BENEATH did go on to
make almost as much money as the original, and since its budget was less than
that for PLANET, BENEATH actually turned more of a profit than the first one.
 That's why I say it was BENEATH which spawned the series, and that the next
three films are more sequels to BENEATH than PLANET.

Any opinions?

-- Rory

<.html

.html

What was the first film really about?  A world where man is beast and apes
the civilized rulers?  No.  It's really about how one arrogant, misanthropic
man gets his comeupance.  It's all about Taylor and what happens to him.  I
guess if the story has anything truly meaning full to say to the individual
it is that you shouldn't be a misanthrope, because if you are then you're
only going to see humanity as a mass of talking apes, and you'll just end up
all alone and, well, like Taylor at the end of the movie -- cursing humanity.

It interests me that you see it this way, because as I see it, the movie
"means" something very different.  I think it is cool that two people can
come away from the same movie seeing two very different meanings in
that movie, but this paragraph of yours is NOT what I see in PotA, not
at all.

What the movie does for me is point fingers at religions and governments
that hide unpleasant truths behind fictions that they promote in order to
keep themselves in power and in order to provide themselves with authority
and social influence.

PotA's use of an inverted evolution is not so much a swipe at our own
society's conflict between religion and science with regard to evolution
and creation debates -- despite the parallels that are obvious in the film.
Yes, our society (its dominant religion, anyway) and PotA's both have a
creation story which turns out not to align with scientific observation, and
the evident message (namely, that the creation story of our society's
dominant religion doesn't hold any more viability than that of the apes)
is an interesting and thought-provoking one -- but even that isn't really
what the movie is saying to me.

Where this movie resonates with me is with Zaius's desperate attempts
to prop up that myth at all costs (heresy trials, lobotomies, canceling
travel permits, sealing the cave) -- even when, at the end of the film,
he admits that he "[has] always known about man" -- all his life, he has
awaited Taylor's arrival with dread, knowing that it was inevitable.  He
*couldn't* have known this from the sacred scrolls, because they teach
that man is a beast with no soul.  No, he is admitting that *he* knew
all along, despite the way he keeps preaching the sacred scrolls, that
the real truth is not what the sacred scrolls teach.

Certain governments and certain religions *are* this way.  They *know*
that what they are teaching is not true.  But they continue to teach it
anyway, for control, for power, for social influence or monetary gain.

PotA gives me an analogy that I can point to as a clear example of this.
I have seen this same sort of duplicity going on in the world around me
(particularly in the religion in which I was raised), and when I do, PotA
becomes a sort of reference point:  PotA shows me a clear example of
how truth is being hidden behind a mask of deceit to advance the
influence of those in power, and with that example in front of me, I
become less willing to accept the teachings with which I was raised
just because of their source, and more likely to be skeptical and
cautious about accepting what I am taught.

(I wrote and presented an academic paper that concluded with this
idea, subtitled "What Planet of the Apes Means To Me".  See
http://home.earthlink.net/~bcmadsen/Religion/Sunstone/2000/.
You could skip to the end if you're short on time -- the PotA
references all appear near the end of the paper.)

--

Brian C. Madsen

BCMadsen@...

(work: brian.madsen@...)

http://home.earthlink.net/~bcmadsen/

<.html

.htmlBrian --

I think your point-of-view on POTA is just as valid as mine.  In fact, this
is what makes PLANET OF THE APES the classic SF film it deserves to be --
it's layered with meanings.  I'm not blind to all that's in this movie, I was
just trying to figure out what 'real world' lesson can be taken away from the
movie.  Your view of PLANET OF THE APES as an alogory on how societies really
work, and what an individual should be aware of in order to intelligently
deal with them, is of course VERY CORRECT.

I just think from Heston's point-of-view he was only interested in it in
terms of the character he had to play, and once that character's story had
been told in the first film, his view was that there was nothing else to say.

I'll look up your paper and read it.  Thanks for the reply.  I hope over the
course of the weekend more in this group will have something to say here.

-- Rory<.html

.html At 11:35 AM 4/14/01 -0400, you wrote:

I think your point-of-view on POTA is just as valid as mine.

Yes, exactly.  I hope I didn't imply anything different in my post,
because this is precisely what I intended to say.

--

Brian C. Madsen

BCMadsen@...

(work: brian.madsen@...)

http://home.earthlink.net/~bcmadsen/

<.html

Interesting take Rory. POTA always seemed pretty stand alone to me. It
just occurred to me looking out the window this fine spring day in the
Forbidden Zone, that POTA is like a nice old house & the sequels are like
clumsy additions slapped on to it. It just looks kinda funny. John

Busy morning at the newstand in Barnes & Noble. May issue of Movieline.
Christina Ricci on the cover. Summer Movie Preview. Lower left hand corner
"Charlton Heston goes Apes" Page 68. "The Alpha and Omega Man" Pretty much
the same old Chuck stories. Did mention that when he was starting out in NYC
he did nude modeling for a $1.50 an hour. Does seem that Chuck never had any
quams about baring all. Saw the May issue of Mademoiselle with our lovely
Estella Warren on the cover. Lookin' Good 'Stella! Title of the article is
"The Risks I Took For Hollywood" Her outfit is described as "a distressed yet
somehow regal-looking one piece" Nice little side bar "Planet of Estella" You
go girl! Go Apes, John

Forgot to mention the Movieline summer preview. Titled "15 Summer Movies
We (Think We) Want To See. Written by the editors. They slammed the original
as being can't we just get along '60's claptrap. Simpleminded or creepily
confused. Nice to see that the editors don't know dick about movies. Or Film
History. Sure, everyone's entitled to there own opinion, but I think their
bit was simplemindly dismissive. They did say they want to see the sexual
tension in the Wahlbery/HBC relationship. Whose being simpleminded or
creepily confused now? Screw 'Em, thank God for the Brit Mags. John

.html Brian --

I think your point-of-view on POTA is just as valid as mine.  In fact, this
is what makes PLANET OF THE APES the classic SF film it deserves to be --
it's layered with meanings.  I'm not blind to all that's in this movie, I was
just trying to figure out what 'real world' lesson can be taken away from the
movie.  Your view of PLANET OF THE APES as an alogory on how societies really
work, and what an individual should be aware of in order to intelligently
deal with them, is of course VERY CORRECT.

I just think from Heston's point-of-view he was only interested in it in
terms of the character he had to play, and once that character's story had
been told in the first film, his view was that there was nothing else to say.

I'll look up your paper and read it.  Thanks for the reply.  I hope over the
course of the weekend more in this group will have something to say here.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
<.html

Oh yeah and I did mean to say I agree POTA should have, artistically, been
stand alone.

But there is more than life to art.....there is of course TOYS (and of
course other collectibles!!!).

So praise the Lawgiver for the sequels and the TV Series (and the books,
dolls, masks, pop-guns, silly soap, model kits, play sets etc) that made
POTA so very big in my otherwise uneventful childhoo!!!

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: JSe3689836@... [JSe3689836@...]
Sent: Sunday, 15 April 2001 3:43
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [pota] "Beneath" Variety Review, May 6, 1970

Interesting take Rory. POTA always seemed pretty stand alone to me. It
just occurred to me looking out the window this fine spring day in the
Forbidden Zone, that POTA is like a nice old house & the sequels are like
clumsy additions slapped on to it. It just looks kinda funny. John

.htmlIn a message dated 4/14/01 5:56:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
whitty@... writes:

A lot of other incidences are simply efforts to turn the human earth upside
down and while I can see how Eric Greene relates this to negroes and their
plight, I don't think this was the intention (but who knows).

Michael

I think Eric Greene overemphazises the race angle, at least in the first
film.  It's true that Boulle makes it very plain that problems with
Black/White race relations was on his mind in chapter 34 of his book -- the
most bizarre chapter in the novel.  But the film chose wisely, I think, to
make this all vague.  Of course CONQUEST OF THE PLANET OF THE APES brought it
all very much out in the open, and I think, rather vugarly at times.

-- Rory


<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/14/01 6:02:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
whitty@... writes:

So praise the Lawgiver for the sequels and the TV Series (and the books,
dolls, masks, pop-guns, silly soap, model kits, play sets etc) that made
POTA so very big in my otherwise uneventful childhoo!!!

Michael

You kids of the Seventies kind of lucked out, I guess.  I was a kid of the
Sixties -- Hell, I can remember the first night "Gilligan's Island" was on,
and "The Munsters."   But before 1974 there were no POTA toys and such.  Back
in '68 there was the paperback tie-in of Boulle's novel, the record album of
Goldsmith's score, and a set of 44 Topps bubble gum cards, and unless you
knew how to get the movie posters, that was it!

By the time the Megos came out I was too old to "play with dolls."  And
besides, I grew up with 12' G.I. Joe's and the Marx figures.  Megos sucked!!

-- Rory

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/14/01 4:56:09 PM Central Daylight Time,
whitty@... writes:

A lot of other incidences are simply efforts to turn the human earth upside
down and while I can see how Eric Greene relates this to negroes and their
plight, I don't think this was the intention (but who knows).

I have to say Greene's book is WAY TOO FAR OUT for me.He reads way too much
into everything and tries to put race,religion,and politics into every aspect
of Apes.To be honest,I never read the whole book,I got sick of all the
nitpicking he does.Like in "The Trap",he reads the subway station as a
remnant of slavery (the "Underground Railroad").And the schoolbus in
Battle,he reads that as segregation being broken.I can't ever read the book
without thinking "Just quit analizing everything man.You are seeing things
that aren't even there.<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/14/01 5:14:19 PM Central Daylight Time, Haristas@...
writes:

I think Eric Greene overemphazises the race angle, at least in the first
film.  It's true that Boulle makes it very plain that problems with
Black/White race relations was on his mind in chapter 34 of his book -- the
most bizarre chapter in the novel.  But the film chose wisely, I think, to
make this all vague.  Of course CONQUEST OF THE PLANET OF THE APES brought
it
all very much out in the open, and I think, rather vugarly at times.

I posted before reading your letter.I am glad to see that someone else feels
like I do on this one.

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/14/01 5:20:32 PM Central Daylight Time, Haristas@...
writes:

Megos sucked!!

No the Megos were cool.Granted the gorillas could have looked a little
better,but for what they are,they are cool.I like the ones I own,and wish I
owned more of them.

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/14/01 7:08:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
mlccougar@... writes:

I have to say Greene's book is WAY TOO FAR OUT for me.He reads way too much
into everything and tries to put race,religion,and politics into every
aspect
of Apes.To be honest,I never read the whole book,I got sick of all the
nitpicking he does.Like in "The Trap",he reads the subway station as a
remnant of slavery (the "Underground Railroad").And the schoolbus in
Battle,he reads that as segregation being broken.I can't ever read the book
without thinking "Just quit analizing everything man.You are seeing things
that aren't even there.

Yup, you got that right.

-- Rory



<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/14/01 6:12:40 PM Central Daylight Time, Haristas@...
writes:

Yup, you got that right.

-- Rory

See Rory,for the things we disagree on, we agree on just as much.You are
alright by me.

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/14/01 7:12:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
mlccougar@... writes:

No the Megos were cool.Granted the gorillas could have looked a little
better,but for what they are,they are cool.I like the ones I own,and wish I
owned more of them.

Well, it's just my opinion.  Like I said, I guess I just missed out.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlOkay, I and another member of the group, Matt, have been planning this for a
while.   We're going to start a many-postings discussion of Pierre Boulle's
rejected script of a sequel to 1968's "Planet of the Apes, " a film based on
Boulle's 1963 French novel.

This script has been a mystery for me for years (as it still is as to why
Boulle would write it).  I first read of it in the POTA Marvel comics
articles back in the Seventies.  But it was only because someone posted here
in the group how to get a copy that I've finally been able to read it.  
Thanks whoever you were.  What I have is dated July 22, 1968, and I guess has
been translated to English since I know Boulle only spoke and wrote in French.

I'll just type out the first part of the screenplay for now.  If anyone here
doesn't want to read this because they're planning on getting the script,
now's the time to stop reading.  I don't know in the long or how much of the
script I, and hopefully Matt, will want to excerpt.  I'm doing the first five
pages just so you can get an idea of Boulle's approach.

(I've noticed that often what I type here gets broken up in funny ways when
it's sent out.  I don't know why this happens.  Maybe I'm doing something
wrong.  But, I hope you won't have any trouble reading this script excerpt.)



                               "Planet of the Men"  by Pierre Boulle

                                                             1

Final scene from the first film.  Taylor is in front of the Statue of Liberty
in a state of violent despair.  Nova watches him apprehensively, then
plucking up courage, she touches his shoulder, her eyes questioning him
mutely --

                                         Taylor
                      And I believed that I had discovered
                      a new world!  This is Earth, nothing
                      more than Earth!

Exasperated by Nova's air of bewilderment, Taylor shakes her by the shoulders
and points, howling, towards the Statue --

                                         Taylor
                      The Earth!   Can't you understand that
                      all these things could only have happened
                      on Earth?

Nova is badly frightened by Taylor's outburst and recoils from him with a
defensive gesture.  Taylor controls himself and, slightly calmer, he shrugs
his shoulders and strokes her hair --

                                         Taylor (despondently)
                       No.  You don't understand.  You can't
                       begin to understand.  You know nothing.

Nova makes a sketchy attempt to smile, then suddenly stiffens her head.  She
listens, indicating the surrounding forest.  There is a cracking of twigs and
before long some figures emerge through the trees.

They are humans.  They move furtively, in leaps and bounds from thicket to
thicket and come nearer little by little.

                                          Taylor
                        The fears of Zaius had some
                        foundations after all.  This jungle
                        is also inhabited..... inhabited by men.

He takes a long look around, and adds in tones of derision --

                                          Taylor
                         Men?  The creatures of our species, Nova!
                         Not the smallest spark of light in their eyes.
                         Heads that have become a mass of
                         unconscious molecules.

Each time he speaks the humans retreat slightly.  Then they
advance a little nearer and the circle narrows around Taylor and Nova.  She
is becoming nervous --

                                          Taylor
                       Stop!

The men pause momentarily.  Then they continue to move furtively
without walking towards Taylor directly.  Singly, their leaps appear
to have no purpose, but the gathering is generally moving towards Taylor.  It
is obvious that the sound of his voice is causing a feverish excitement.  
Taylor shakes his rifle and speaks roughly --

                                          Taylor
                        I said: Stop!  Stay where you are! . . .
                        Am I going to have to arm myself against
                        my fellow men?

Another hesitation, then a fresh advance which looks ominous.
Taylor starts to raise his rifle.  At that moment there is a terrific noise
of breaking branches, and a wild buffalo emerges from the thicket and charges
towards the group.  In the twinkling of an eye, everyone rushes towards the
trees and climbs out of reach.

However, one of the women, who carries a baby in her arms, is unable to get
out of the way of the charging beast.

Taylor, who has stayed with his gun levelled, fires.  The buffalo flounders
and rolls to the ground.  Taylor has shot him in the head.  The buffalo is
still.

A long silent scene:  the woman with the baby stares intensely at Taylor,
then at the dead beast.  The men perched in the trees do the same.  A few to
start with, then all together, they decide to climb down.

Taylor is now resting on his rifle and waiting in an attitude of hope.

The woman places her baby at the foot of a tree, turns towards Taylor and
throws herself face-downwards in front of him, her head in the dust like a
grovelling dog.

Some of the men follow suit, until soon all are prostrate in front of Taylor,
who watches their antics with an intense curiosity.  Taylor looks up to the
sky, as if he has discovered a light.  His mood of dejection and despair
slowly lifts.

                                             Taylor
                       Perhaps all is not lost.

He looks into Nova's eyes and smiles.  She holds his gaze, and, in turn,
tries to smile.  But her features contract and her smile quickly changes into
a grimace of pain.  She pales, is shaken by a spasm, and falls to the ground.

                                             Taylor
                       Not you!

He wants to force her to her feet, but realises that she is ill.

                                             Taylor
                       But you are unwell.  What is the matter?

Nova recovers, tries to smile again, straightens with an effort, points
towards the baby at the foot of the tree then towards her own stomach.

                                             Taylor
                        You want to say that . . . a child?

                        (his voice grows steadily more impassioned)

                         A child! . . . a son! a son! . . .
                         and this, you understand?

Nova intensifies her grimaces, which become more and more like a human smile.
 For the first time a light of intelligence shows in her eyes.  Taylor
straightens, he has reached the height of excitement.

                                           Taylor
                         No, all is not lost.  This is a sign from the sky!
                         I don't know what devil has amused himself
                         by reversing the laws of nature on this planet,
                         but here there is a great mission to accomplish.

He turns in the direction of the City of Apes.

                                           Taylor
                         Zaius, I take an oath; you will hear more
                         of me.  Even if it takes my entire life, I swear
                         that one day you will know real men . . .  to
                         both of us, Zaius!

A fairly long silence.  Taylor contemplates the men prostrate before him and
presently addresses them --

                                           Taylor
                         Men, real men, I swear it.  Listen to me,
                         you others.  We have a long way to go together,
                         a terrible height to recover.  We have already
                         taken the first steps today . . . and now, to
                         start with (shouting). . .  Get yourselves off the
                         ground!
                         Stand up!

The men take fright and don't move.  Taylor goes to the woman with the baby,
takes her hand and forces her to get up.  Slowly, one after the other, the
men lift their heads and straighten up.  They avoid Taylor's stare.  He
seizes one of them bodily and forces him to look him in the eye.

                                          Taylor
                         Stand up, all of you!  And look at me!
                         Men have to hold themselves upright
                         and look each other in the eye.





Well, that's it for now.  I could make some comments, some of them very
critical, but I think I'll wait for Matt to respond and also to hear from
anyone else who'd like to comment.

"Go ahead -- speak!  Come on -- speak again!"

-- Rory   <.html

Did you catch on the Oscars when Steve Martin said to be careful around
Heston because he thinks he was the star of "Gladiator"? - - - Jeff Krueger

----- Original Message -----
From: <LordTZer0@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 1:58 AM
Subject: Re: [pota] Charlton Heston AOL Live Chat (it's long!)


> In a message dated 4/7/01 4:55:36 PM Central Daylight Time,
> williejoe@... writes:
>
> << "Chuckles"?!! That's great, I haven't laughed so hard all week.
> "Chuckles" it is>>
>
> Yeah, I can't help it. He's Chuckles the Clown. He's funny 'cause he's
> serious.
> And he knows it. The Bud Lite commercials are a great example.
> He should do a SNL sketch, where he's really lost it and thinks he really
is
> Moses, and Taylor, and Ben-Hur, etc... He could run around doing quotes.
. .
> "Soylent Green is made out of people!" That Real Audio toon of him is
one
> of the funniest things I've ever seen!
>
>
>
>
>
>

KISS and POTA: Adam Rifkin, the guy who originally tried to mount a new
"Apes" film a decade ago, went on to direct the KISS-derived "Detroit Rock
City". In the '70's, both KISS and POTA were Megos and Marvel comic books.

- - - - Jeff K.

----- Original Message -----
From: <MTotsky@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 7:48 AM
Subject: Re: [pota] I was made for hunting you baby...


>
> In a message dated 4/8/01 3:32:55 AM, kentaylor@... writes:
>
> <<http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=577723291>>
>
> In that auction, the seller wrote:
>
> Every KISS fan is a POTA fan. This is a resin casting of Gen Ursus head
> with Gene Simmons makeup on it. Solid and can be used as a pencil
> topper. Buyer to pay shipping. Email any questions to me at
> Zaius53761@...
>
> Yeah, I have a question....WHY????
>
> Ken, I liked your subject line.
>
> Matt (Ape Fan and KISS fan)
>
>
>
>
>
>

My original poster collecting days are long gone (except for the new
film), A decade ago I got the "Planet/Beneath" double feature poster for $3,
a "Conquest" poster for $7 and "Battle" poster for $10. I have a Brazilian
"30th Anniversary" poster sent from Adami.

I have exactly 2 lobby cards: Caesar in front of the human pen in "Battle"
and Zauis confronting Taylor at the end of "Beneath". I had it at a signing
and William Creber discussed how cheap it was to create that final set of
the movie.

The "Planeta Malp" poster seen in "Behind the POTA" is Eric Greene's
- - - - Jeff K.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Maxwell" <alan@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: [pota] Collecting POTA movie posters. WARNING: Long e-mail!


> Rory <Haristas@...> wrote:
> >Does anyone out there collect original APES movie theatre posters, lobby
> >cards and stills?
>
>
> I'd like to, but sadly collecting original posters isn't a cheap hobby. I
> collect some original items, but in most cases I think I'd settle for a
> decent quality reprint.
>
> >Lobby cards, 11"x14" These are printed on card stock and usually come
> eight
> >to a set in the US. In other countries though they will vary in size and
> >number per set.
>
>
> Some of these I have - a Conquest set from France (I have 9 of them, I
have
> no idea if there are more in the set or not), which measure 11" by about
> 8.5". I like them, but they're certainly not as good as the usual 8x10
lobby
> cards. I also have a set of these ones (8 in the set I think) which I
think
> are excellent.
>
> Nothing to do with lobby cards really, but I like the mass-produced 8x10
> photographs - they're good quality and cheap, so they're a decent
> alternative to lobby cards if you're just looking for something nice to
> stick in frame or have signed by an actor or whatever.
>
> >British quad poster, 40"x30" This poster is the standard British size,
an
> >oblong image.
>
>
> I have two of these, I don't when they're from (i.e. whether they're from
> the original releases or a later reissues - I am assuming the latter). One
> is the poster for Beneath, which I absolutely love. The other is the
double
> bill of Battle with The Neptune Factor - this one isn't quite so good as
the
> image of a gorilla holding a mutant aloft is one of the weakest PotA
poster
> images I've seen. Still, at least it isn't like the foreign version of the
> same picture, which features flying saucers and things like that.
>
> Both are folded, but otherwise in pretty good condition (slight wear round
> the edges). To be honest I'd have been foolish to turn them down since
they
> were both under a tenner each.
>
> >There is also the PLANET British quad. This is a poster I wish I had.
>
> Well if we're talking about ones we wish we had, I could go on forever.
But
> one in particular - despite the fact that it gives away the ending and
that
> the illustration isn't that great, I find the polish one ("Planeta Malp"
or
> whatever, it's one of the ones that Rory said was in the Film Posters of
the
> 60s book) really striking, and wouldn't mind one of them.
>
> That's all for now.
>
> Alan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Yeah, Martin was pretty lame. John

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 1:44 PM

Subject: Re: [pota] Collecting POTA movie posters. WARNING: Long e-mail!

In a message dated 4/8/01 4:32:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
alan@... writes:

I'd like to, but sadly collecting original posters isn't a cheap hobby. I
collect some original items, but in most cases I think I'd settle for a
decent quality reprint.

Hey Alan,

Nice response.  I found it very interesting.  If anyone is interested, I work
in a professional film lab and I've created a "decent quality reprint" of the
American half-sheet from PLANET OF THE APES.  I've sent one to Jeff Krueger
and I think he thinks it's 'decent.'  I'm going to have to figure a way to
get a scan of it to post here, then if anyone would like one we can talk.  I
don't know if 20th Century-Fox would object -- I don't think they have rights
to poster reprints, but I'm probably wrong.  More later.

-- Rory


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 1:49 PM

Subject: Re: [pota] Sarabande PLANET soundtrack

In a message dated 4/8/01 4:32:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, LordTZer0@...
writes:

I have it!  It's quite good, as good as the Intrada and comes with the
Escape
suite.
The liner notes have me pissed off!  How could a Fox authorized soundtrack
print Kevin Hunter instead of Kim!  Even one of Heston's book had Kim
Stanley
under one of the photos though.  That shit really pisses me off!  Kim
Stanley
I can kind of understand.  Like Kim Hunter she was a top notch classic
Broadway actress.  But Kevin Stanley's a dude, and only been acting about
ten
years!  Don't they have any proofreaders?  Where do they get this stuff!?!

T, you magnificent bastard!  Yeah, there are mistakes in the notes, like
crediting Paul Dehn with re-writing Serling's script.  Where were the proof
readers on this thing!  It's got one of the production sketches reproduced.  
But what are we talking about here, T?!!!!

This is Jerry Goldsmith!!!  This is POTA!!!

nuf said

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

Hey! With all this nostalgia and remakes, has anyone thought of doing "Wacky
Packs" today? Who has the rights?

Wait! I thought of it . Leggo! It's mine!

- - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: <MTotsky@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2001 8:18 PM
Subject: Re: [pota] Planet of the Grapes


>
> In a message dated 4/7/01 5:10:41 PM, lawford42@... writes:
>
> <<Geez, I thought I was the only person in the world that remembered these
> things. You should see the looks on people's faces when I try to explain
> what these were.
>
> How cool was it to be a kid in the 70's?
>
>
> Chris L.>>
>
> Yeah Chris, they had some cool stuff back then. Check out this Wacky Pack:
>
> http://www.wackypacks.net/originals/series12/pictures/brandy.jpg
>
> Can you imagine someone making this today????
>
> Matt
>
>
>
>
>
>

In a message dated 4/14/01 7:42:05 PM, Haristas@... writes:

<<Well, that's it for now. I could make some comments, some of them very
critical, but I think I'll wait for Matt to respond and also to hear from
anyone else who'd like to comment.>>

I don't have a lot of time to discuss the script in detail at this moment
(don't worry, I will later), but overall I enjoyed it. I think with a little
work, it would have made a better movie than BENEATH. There is more character
development, more action, and a lot of irony.

It also has some corny elements, and a few scenes that are definate head
scratchers. The dialouge is kind of wacky, but I blame that more on the
translation and I think some of it could be easily fixed.

Overall, it really is a continuation of Taylor's story. It makes me wonder
what they would have done if Heston had been enthusiastic about a sequel.
Since Jacobs supposedly disliked this script, I'm sure they would have
started over. With Heston, there would be no need for the Brent character and
a lot of the elements that were in BENEATH. Still, I think it would have
turned out to be a Taylor frolicking with the mutants picture.

Has anyone else beside me and Rory read this?

Matt

I don't think it's caving in as much as reflecting Burton's sensibility.
Love scenes are not his thing, even in the R-rated "Ed Wood". But for
connect the dots blockbuster movies, to even suggest beastiality (is that
how it's spelled?) is a brave choice. The usual choice is to keep it safe so
we don't have conversations like this. So far, to me this is the most
interesting aspect of the new movie. Ari, you go,
- - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: <LordTZer0@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 12:43 PM
Subject: [pota] Definitive Apes


>
>
> I'm not saying that the new film will suck. And even if it should I'm
glad
> they're making something, at least. But they shouldn't pull a scene just
> because it might piss someone off. Any more than they should put one in
> trying to please everyone. It either works or it doesn't. If the guy
said
> it works, I'll take his word for it until I've seen for myself and make up
my
> own mind. It's just unfortunate I probably won't get the opportunity to
see
> it as it was originally intended, which is what directors cuts are for.
If
> only Burton believed in doing directors cuts. What the DVD needs is a
fans
> cut. Do I think this will be the definitive Apes? No. How can it be
until
> they pull out all the stops -- Which they obviously have not done. Just
my
> opinion, Man.
>
>
>
>
>
>

Eric Greene gave me a copy of "Planet of the Men" but it's been a couple
years since I read it. I remember it had some good elements but overall
seemed awkward. I would have loved to see that ending,
- - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: <MTotsky@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 7:51 PM
Subject: Re: [pota] "Planet of the Men" Part One ** Spoilers**


>
> In a message dated 4/14/01 7:42:05 PM, Haristas@... writes:
>
> <<Well, that's it for now. I could make some comments, some of them very
> critical, but I think I'll wait for Matt to respond and also to hear from
> anyone else who'd like to comment.>>
>
> I don't have a lot of time to discuss the script in detail at this moment
> (don't worry, I will later), but overall I enjoyed it. I think with a
little
> work, it would have made a better movie than BENEATH. There is more
character
> development, more action, and a lot of irony.
>
> It also has some corny elements, and a few scenes that are definate head
> scratchers. The dialouge is kind of wacky, but I blame that more on the
> translation and I think some of it could be easily fixed.
>
> Overall, it really is a continuation of Taylor's story. It makes me wonder
> what they would have done if Heston had been enthusiastic about a sequel.
> Since Jacobs supposedly disliked this script, I'm sure they would have
> started over. With Heston, there would be no need for the Brent character
and
> a lot of the elements that were in BENEATH. Still, I think it would have
> turned out to be a Taylor frolicking with the mutants picture.
>
> Has anyone else beside me and Rory read this?
>
> Matt
>
>
>
>
>
>

Is this soldier ape rare? I got one and opened it up! - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: <MTotsky@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 2:11 PM
Subject: [pota] Great Medicom Deal!


> If anyone needs the Soldier Ape B (the one from BENEATH with the longer
beard
> and machine gun), I suggest that you check out www.toysyndicate.com. I got
> one from there for $40.95 shipped. For some reason, this figure usually
goes
> for more $80 on eBay. Felix from Fantasiatoyz.com sells them for $120 (and
> his prices are usually pretty reasonable). I ordered mine on Tuesday and
got
> it today (I wanted to wait until I received the item before posting about
it
> in case it was another bait and switch scam).
>
> Hope this helps someone.
>
> Matt
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html In a message dated 4/14/01 7:12:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
mlccougar@... writes:

No the Megos were cool.Granted the gorillas could have looked a little
better,but for what they are,they are cool.I like the ones I own,and wish I
owned more of them.

Well, it's just my opinion.  Like I said, I guess I just missed out.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
<.html

Not so rare as Battle Caesar and the Chimp Caesar Land's Ape - these are
very limited in numbers.

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Krueger [williejoe@...]
Sent: Sunday, 15 April 2001 14:31
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [pota] Great Medicom Deal!

Is this soldier ape rare? I got one and opened it up! - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: <MTotsky@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 2:11 PM
Subject: [pota] Great Medicom Deal!


> If anyone needs the Soldier Ape B (the one from BENEATH with the longer
beard
> and machine gun), I suggest that you check out www.toysyndicate.com. I got
> one from there for $40.95 shipped. For some reason, this figure usually
goes
> for more $80 on eBay. Felix from Fantasiatoyz.com sells them for $120 (and
> his prices are usually pretty reasonable). I ordered mine on Tuesday and
got
> it today (I wanted to wait until I received the item before posting about
it
> in case it was another bait and switch scam).
>
> Hope this helps someone.
>
> Matt
>
>
>
>
>
>

Does the term "religious fanatics" mean anything to you guys? Controversy of
any kind does not sit well for a movie that has toys to sell. That they are
even going near ittakes guts these days. This isn't the
'60's. - - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: <LordTZer0@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 9:20 PM
Subject: Re: [pota] Re: Ari & Leo love scene


>
> << Hit the nail on the head, LTZ. What, are the "studio executives"
> scared
> that kids will run out and start having sex with apes?!?!?!? Have some
guts
> and do something original, for cryin' out loud! Go Apes, John >>
>
> You know, there really aren't that many apes in this country. And the
> average teen has only limited access to them. And I hardly think there's
> anything to worry about there, because as we all know . . . real apes are
not
> lookers. I rest my case.
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 4:43 AM

Subject: Re: [pota] Where were you all...?

In a message dated 4/11/01 4:02:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
whitty@... writes:

I must say I did not have anyone to talk to about apes at school - everyone
thought my interest in POTA was kinda strange!

Michael

Not only was it the same with me during most of school, but my interest in
POTA is still thought 'strange' by most.  Oh well.

-- Rory



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Alexander Ruiz

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 11:55 AM

Subject: [pota] Trading Cards Preview

Hey Gang,

Dave B just brough this to my attention.

 

Great sneak peek.

 

http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/228.html"

 

Best,

 

Alex

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

I saw that "Starship Troopers" show at a DVD store. It looks great! I
didn't particularly like the movie, even though I was an extra in
- - - - Jeff K.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Ballard" <dballard@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 10:29 AM
Subject: [pota] New TV show


> I was watching the CGI "Starship Troopers" show this morning (First
> time I'd seen it) I think "Apes" could be a strong contender for the
> TV CGI treatment. How about a faithful CGI version of the original
> Novel?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 3:29 PM

Subject: [pota] Check out Ain't It Cool News - View Article

Click here: Ain't It Cool News - View Article

Hey people,

Aint it cool news has at least one picture up from the new POTA that I
haven't seen, and a bunch of talk back I'm going to read now.  It's almost
always good for some laughs.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/14/01 11:26:43 PM Central Daylight Time,
whitty@... writes:

I thought Megos were cool too......until Medicom came along!

Michael


Michael,

Don't get me wrong,the Medicoms really are the superior figures in terms of
details,looks,etc..Too bad they weren't more poseable.I say all of this as
one that doesn't even own one of the Medicoms.But I can't dispute the quality
from what I've seen.<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/15/01 12:04:15 AM Central Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

My interest in "Planet of the Apes" is thought strange by Natalie Trundy and
Booth Colman.       - - - Jeff

Are you serious?If so did they give you any reasons?<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Brian C. Madsen

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 8:04 AM

Subject: Re: [pota] Re: Charlton Heston -- King of Bullshit

What was the first film really about?  A world where man is beast and apes
the civilized rulers?  No.  It's really about how one arrogant, misanthropic
man gets his comeupance.  It's all about Taylor and what happens to him.  I
guess if the story has anything truly meaning full to say to the individual
it is that you shouldn't be a misanthrope, because if you are then you're
only going to see humanity as a mass of talking apes, and you'll just end up
all alone and, well, like Taylor at the end of the movie -- cursing humanity.

It interests me that you see it this way, because as I see it, the movie
"means" something very different.  I think it is cool that two people can
come away from the same movie seeing two very different meanings in
that movie, but this paragraph of yours is NOT what I see in PotA, not
at all.

What the movie does for me is point fingers at religions and governments
that hide unpleasant truths behind fictions that they promote in order to
keep themselves in power and in order to provide themselves with authority
and social influence.

PotA's use of an inverted evolution is not so much a swipe at our own
society's conflict between religion and science with regard to evolution
and creation debates -- despite the parallels that are obvious in the film.
Yes, our society (its dominant religion, anyway) and PotA's both have a
creation story which turns out not to align with scientific observation, and
the evident message (namely, that the creation story of our society's
dominant religion doesn't hold any more viability than that of the apes)
is an interesting and thought-provoking one -- but even that isn't really
what the movie is saying to me.

Where this movie resonates with me is with Zaius's desperate attempts
to prop up that myth at all costs (heresy trials, lobotomies, canceling
travel permits, sealing the cave) -- even when, at the end of the film,
he admits that he "[has] always known about man" -- all his life, he has
awaited Taylor's arrival with dread, knowing that it was inevitable.  He
*couldn't* have known this from the sacred scrolls, because they teach
that man is a beast with no soul.  No, he is admitting that *he* knew
all along, despite the way he keeps preaching the sacred scrolls, that
the real truth is not what the sacred scrolls teach.

Certain governments and certain religions *are* this way.  They *know*
that what they are teaching is not true.  But they continue to teach it
anyway, for control, for power, for social influence or monetary gain.

PotA gives me an analogy that I can point to as a clear example of this.
I have seen this same sort of duplicity going on in the world around me
(particularly in the religion in which I was raised), and when I do, PotA
becomes a sort of reference point:  PotA shows me a clear example of
how truth is being hidden behind a mask of deceit to advance the
influence of those in power, and with that example in front of me, I
become less willing to accept the teachings with which I was raised
just because of their source, and more likely to be skeptical and
cautious about accepting what I am taught.

(I wrote and presented an academic paper that concluded with this
idea, subtitled "What Planet of the Apes Means To Me".  See
http://home.earthlink.net/~bcmadsen/Religion/Sunstone/2000/.
You could skip to the end if you're short on time -- the PotA
references all appear near the end of the paper.)

--

Brian C. Madsen

BCMadsen@...

(work: brian.madsen@...)

http://home.earthlink.net/~bcmadsen/

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

Screw the chimp Caesar's Land Ape - - - I'd rather get Caesar
- - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 9:26 PM
Subject: RE: [pota] Great Medicom Deal!


> Not so rare as Battle Caesar and the Chimp Caesar Land's Ape - these are
> very limited in numbers.
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jack Krueger [williejoe@...]
> Sent: Sunday, 15 April 2001 14:31
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [pota] Great Medicom Deal!
>
> Is this soldier ape rare? I got one and opened it up! - - Jeff
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <MTotsky@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 2:11 PM
> Subject: [pota] Great Medicom Deal!
>
>
> > If anyone needs the Soldier Ape B (the one from BENEATH with the longer
> beard
> > and machine gun), I suggest that you check out www.toysyndicate.com. I
got
> > one from there for $40.95 shipped. For some reason, this figure usually
> goes
> > for more $80 on eBay. Felix from Fantasiatoyz.com sells them for $120
(and
> > his prices are usually pretty reasonable). I ordered mine on Tuesday and
> got
> > it today (I wanted to wait until I received the item before posting
about
> it
> > in case it was another bait and switch scam).
> >
> > Hope this helps someone.
> >
> > Matt
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: mlccougar@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 11:16 PM

Subject: Re: [pota] Where were you all...?

In a message dated 4/15/01 12:04:15 AM Central Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

My interest in "Planet of the Apes" is thought strange by Natalie Trundy and
Booth Colman.       - - - Jeff

Are you serious?If so did they give you any reasons?

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

Has anyone else beside me and Rory read this?

Matt

Yeah, I've read it.

I found it fascinating to be sure but "uncinematic". The best
elements are the ones that ultimately found their way into Beneath
anyway.

"Beneath" remains my favorite Ape movie, probably because it was the
first I ever saw.

Most of the reasons I disliked it occur later in the script so I
won't say too much now.

Keep up the good work

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Alexander Ruiz

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 11:55 AM

Subject: [pota] Trading Cards Preview

Hey Gang,

Dave B just brough this to my attention.

 

Great sneak peek.

 

http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/228.html"

 

Best,

 

Alex

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Alexander Ruiz

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 3:10 PM

Subject: [pota] The Remake

Oh my God it's THE DARK CRYSTAL remake!!

hehehe!!

 

Best,

 

Alex

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

Hi Guy's

I need some help from you.

I'm getting ready to make a model of Taylor's Spacecraft. Unlike
other versions I'm going to attempt to imagine what the unseen
portion of the ship, that which was under water might have looked
like.

I've seen the official blue prints and don't care for the way in
which the ship suddenly cut's off with some very basic "Apollo" type
rockets. I've seen the "Icarus model website" and don't really care
for those versions either (Although I'm not knocking them... They're
just not what I envisage)

My first assumptions (and I know this is all hypothetical) is that
there must be a lot more mass under the water than is shown in the
blueprints to cause the ship to sink at such an angle. Also the
engines would have to be a lot further back otherwise they would
incinerate the crew.

What I'd like is some discussion from the group about what else we
can't see. How was the ship supposed to land? ("We weren't programmed
to land in the water") or more importantly how was it supposed to
take off again? Did it have wheels and under carriage? What type of
fuel or propulsion did it use? Standard solid fuel rockets or an
unknown "Warp" or "Hyper" drive system (A "Hasslien" drive)

Any ideas would be welcome as I'd like to try a build a "cocktail" of
all the most popular ideas.

Thanks,
Dave

.htmlIn a message dated 4/15/01 12:25:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

Is this soldier ape rare? I got one and opened it up! - - Jeff

I think we can count on all the Medicoms becoming rare.  I don't know about
the rest of you, but I opened all mine up (I only got eleven of the
nineteen.), but I opened them in such away that I can put them back in their
cards and it would look okay.  Mint in opened card, I guess you'd say, but
hell I'll never sell these things.  Besides, I don't like loking at POTA as
something to make money on -- that's Fox's job.

-- Rory<.html

OK, but promise not to open it!

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Krueger [williejoe@...]
Sent: Sunday, 15 April 2001 16:44
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [pota] Great Medicom Deal!

Screw the chimp Caesar's Land Ape - - - I'd rather get Caesar
- - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 9:26 PM
Subject: RE: [pota] Great Medicom Deal!


> Not so rare as Battle Caesar and the Chimp Caesar Land's Ape - these are
> very limited in numbers.
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jack Krueger [williejoe@...]
> Sent: Sunday, 15 April 2001 14:31
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [pota] Great Medicom Deal!
>
> Is this soldier ape rare? I got one and opened it up! - - Jeff
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <MTotsky@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 2:11 PM
> Subject: [pota] Great Medicom Deal!
>
>
> > If anyone needs the Soldier Ape B (the one from BENEATH with the longer
> beard
> > and machine gun), I suggest that you check out www.toysyndicate.com. I
got
> > one from there for $40.95 shipped. For some reason, this figure usually
> goes
> > for more $80 on eBay. Felix from Fantasiatoyz.com sells them for $120
(and
> > his prices are usually pretty reasonable). I ordered mine on Tuesday and
> got
> > it today (I wanted to wait until I received the item before posting
about
> it
> > in case it was another bait and switch scam).
> >
> > Hope this helps someone.
> >
> > Matt
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: mlccougar@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 11:16 PM

Subject: Re: [pota] Where were you all...?

In a message dated 4/15/01 12:04:15 AM Central Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

My interest in "Planet of the Apes" is thought strange by Natalie Trundy and
Booth Colman.       - - - Jeff

Are you serious?If so did they give you any reasons?

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .
<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/15/01 12:59:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

Does the term "religious fanatics" mean anything to you guys? Controversy of
any kind does not sit well for a movie that has toys to sell. That they are
even going near ittakes guts these days. This isn't the
'60's.          - - - - Jeff

No, it's the corporate 2000's.   "Religious fanatics"?!!!    The only preying
I ever do goes something like this,  "God, please save me from religious
fanatics!"

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/15/01 1:04:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

My interest in "Planet of the Apes" is thought strange by Natalie Trundy and
Booth Colman.       - - - Jeff

I guess they just "don't go in for fads."

-- Rory

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/15/01 4:42:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

Oh, and Heston asked that he NOT recieve screen credit. You might have
heard this week that Marlon Brando is being paid $2 million for four days
work on "Scary Movie 2". What you may not have heard is that they offered
it to Heston first and he turned it down (they want to kill off a film
"icon" in the movie's opening scene). Gee, he turned down $2 million and
did "Apes" for no credit (and perhaps donated his fee to charity, as he did
with "Beneath"). Mr. Heston is alright in my book.

Does anyone have Mr. Brando's phone number?

                                                  - - - - - - Jeff


I can remember reading back in the Seventies that the role of Taylor, or
whatever the character was named in earlier drafts, was offered first to
Marlon Brando by Jacobs, but Brando turned him down saying he didn't
understand the concept.  Of course, I think that doesn't say much for Brando.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 4/15/01 3:10:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
dballard@... writes:

"Beneath" remains my favorite Ape movie, probably because it was the
first I ever saw.

"Planet of the Apes" remains my favorite movie because it was the first one I
saw that just totally blew me away as a kid.  I think that some films just
have this power when we are at a certain age.  The experience of seeing them
in a theatre, where suspension of disbelief can be maintained, just never
leaves some of us.

I've heard other APES fans say it was BATTLE they saw first, so even though
they know it's not the best, it's still their favorite because of the memory
of it.

To each his own.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlOkay, now before you get too excited, I'm not talkin' Classic APES here.

I get the magazine Widescreen Review every month, and as part of their DVD
reviews they preview what's coming in the Inside DVD column.

Under 20th Century Fox (And I wonder. . . . Is 20th Century Fox ever going to
become 21st Century Fox?) the column's Bill Hunt writes, "Fox has been very
busy as of late, and you're going to be thrilled to hear what's coming for
the end of the year. . . . an elaborate special edition of Tim Burton's new
'Planet of the Apes.'

Anyone surprised to hear this?

-- Rory<.html

.htmlWell, my thoughts on the "Planet of the Men" script so far is firstly "Why
did Boulle write this?"   He was not a screenwriter, and in fact I read once
where he thought watching films was rather juvenile.  I also remember that in
an interview with Boulle in the 1972 POTA issue of Cinefantastique, when he
was asked about this script all he said was, "Yes, I played the game."

What I suspect brought this script into being was that Boulle had probably
sold the screenrights to his book for next to nothing back in '63 or '64.   
So, now in '68 the movie adaptation is a huge hit and Boulle isn't seeing any
money.   When the studio decided very quickly to do a sequel, Boulle or his
agent probably saw an opportunity to make a little money.  Jacobs may have
very kindly offered Boulle some of the money APES was making if Boulle would
submit a treatment.  The Boulle script sort of reads like a script version of
just a treatment.  Boulle certainly had no sense of how to stage a scene, of
what would make an audience unintentionally laugh, and he for sure couldn't
write dialogue.  But he probably didn't worry about any of this, for as
anyone who's studied Hollywood filmmaking knows, scripts aren't written --
they're re-written.

I have a 1996 book about the writings of Pierre Boulle by Lucille Frackman
Becker, who had a correspondence with Boulle during the last couple years of
his life.  As regards to POTA, it's rather interesting.

Becker calls Boulle's "La planete des singes" a "remarkably conceived and
executed" novel, that "is primarily a work of social criticism reminiscent of
Swift and Voltaire."   And that Boulle considered the book "not science
fiction, " that "the apes in the work are like humans as two peas in a pod;
they are in fact human beings.  The novel is really satire; the characters
you see in 'Planet of the Apes' have nothing in common with the fantastic
beings that populate works of science fiction."

Becker also writes, "Like Voltaire's tale 'Micromegas,'  Boulle's novel mocks
humankind's anthropocentric theory of the universe from which human beings
derive their sense of importance."

But wait until you read what Becker thinks of the 1968 film adaptation:

"All philosophical inquiry and all social critism have been ignored by the
makers of the film 'Planet of the Apes,' who, unfortunately, converted the
novel into what is called 'space opera,' a type of fiction midway between bad
science fiction and nonscience fiction, patterned on the western and
containing diverse elements taken from the fairy or fantastic tale."  And of
the scenes of the astronaut's trek in the beginning of the film she writes,
"Then they are shown walking along in the desert, outlined against the vast
sky of the typical cowboy film.  Like most westerns, the film contains many
chase sequenses, including the hunting scene from the novel, but here, in a
change approved by Boulle, the apes are on horseback instead of on foot as in
the traditional hunting beat he described in the novel.

"The denouement of the film is equally unsatisfactory.  Aided by friendly
chimpanzees ('good' Indians) and chased by hostile gorillas and orangutans
('bad' Indians), Taylor and Nova escape on horseback across the American
western landscape.  After a series of shootouts, with apes falling from
horses and off cliffs, they find themselves on a beach.  Before them, buried
in the sand, is part of the Statue of Liberty.

"This conclusion was dictated by the producers of the film, who fely the need
for something more dramatic -- or perhaps psychologically more acceptable --
than apathy to explain the collapse of human civilization, and decided on a
nuclear war, a convention of the time.  While Pierre Boulle disapproved of
the film, because it ignored the philosophical and social questions at the
heart of his work, he was particulary critical of the ending, which even did
away with the notion of space travel by indicating that the protagonist had,
in fact, never left Earth."

WELL!!!  I guess she didn't like the film to much.  Actually, I don't think
she gave it much consideration.

A funny thing about her book is that there's no mention of Boulle's "Planet
of the Men" script.  I tried to write her about it, but they were returned
address unknown.

I do think she is kind of right about PLANET playing more like a western
(with elements of Tarzan movies) than like whatever her idea of what a
Science Fiction movie should be.  I've for a long time seen the
leather-jacket gorillas in the hunt sequence as like the US Cavalry of the
1870's hunting down Indians -- and in a field of maize to boot!

But, anyway, to bring this all back around to the "Planet of the Men"
script.... This thing is definitely Boulle trying to reclaim the concept away
from what Rod Serling brought to it.   Now Taylor, like Merou in the novel,
will attempt to be a savior of mankind, and as you'll see -- as with all of
Boulle's works laced with irony -- nothing turns out well.

-- Rory

<.html

In a message dated 4/15/01 12:25:18 AM, williejoe@... writes:

<<Is this soldier ape rare? I got one and opened it up! - - Jeff>>

Supposedly. The prices on ebay are sky high on this piece.

I opened mine too! What good is a toy if you can't play with it.

Matt

.htmlClick here: eBay-AOL item 1133057813 (Ends Apr-16-01 17:46:47 PDT) - Rare
60s Planet of the Apes "Lawgiver" Poster


Hey Gang,

Note who's got the high bid on this item!!!    Anybody care to outbid him?   
HA!  HA!

-- Rory


<.html