.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 10:52 AM

Subject: [pota] Check out Monkey business: Director and cast go out on a limb updating belove

Click here: Monkey business: Director and cast go out on a limb updating
beloved 'Planet of the Apes'
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

<.html

.html Thanx Jeff.  We hjad a blast, but now it's

Nap time for bonzo.  ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

B

Jack Krueger wrote:

 Yeah, Brian! I saw you on the tube. The only one without makeup on. Unfortunately, they referred to the original as a "kitsch classic" and gave away the ending. These newspeople are all the same. But "Apemania" is one of a kind.                                                                     - - - - Jeff K.  

----- Original Message -----

From: Jack Krueger

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 7:23 AM

Subject: [pota] What about Brian?

   Brian, I'm watching...where are you?                                                            - - - - Jeff K.  

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2001 4:33 PM

Subject: [pota] Check out Home Theater Forum Chat Page

 Click here: Home Theater Forum Chat Page

Hey gang,

I've just found this site and they say they're going to have a live chat with
Peter Staddon from Twentieth Century Fox Home Entertainment.

IF we can get on this might be a good time for APES fans to tell this guy
just what we want to see on DVD.

I'll try to be there.

-- Rory
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

<.html

.htmlClick here: Check the Grid - CTG Says...

Here's a positive review of the new movie that's also spoiler free.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlClick here: Planet of the Apes

Here's another mostly positive review with no spoilers.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlClick here: MovieHeadlines.Net

This review is mostly positive, but he hates the ending.  Don't worry,
though, he doesn't give it away.

-- Rory <.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 11:28 AM

Subject: [pota] Check out Check the Grid - CTG Says...

Click here: Check the Grid - CTG Says...

Here's a positive review of the new movie that's also spoiler free.

-- Rory
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.htmlClick here: Cinema Confidential: Planet of the Apes (2001)

And here's yet another mostly positive review.  No spoilers.

-- Rory <.html

.htmlClick here: Tim Burton Collective: POTA Review from the Premiere

Yet another mostly positive review.  Spoiler free.

-- Rory<.html

Not to mention that she's very claustrophobic, and she hates wearing the
makeup.

In a message dated 7/26/01 1:26:12 PM Central Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

<< I love where Zanuck said he wanted to do the original because of it's
social allegory. Ha! >>

That's a laugh! From what I understand that was slipped past both him and
Zanuck the elder by the ex-blacklisted writers, and the were so thick they
didn't even pick up on it.

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 11:48 AM

Subject: [pota] Check out Cinema Confidential: Planet of the Apes (2001)

Click here: Cinema Confidential: Planet of the Apes (2001)

And here's yet another mostly positive review.  No spoilers.

-- Rory

<.html

.htmlWhere were all of you last night? I might as well not have set the chatroom
up, because it was just Rory and me....We could have had our chat in an IM.

We were hoping more of you would have shown up, but obviously you didn't. I
will set one up this coming Monday, July 30 at 7:30 / 8:30 eastern. If there
aren't more people this time, I won't set anymore up, someone else can do it.
Why set it up if no one shows? <.html

Sorry guys! I passed out last night and woke up around 10:30pm my time and
everyone was gone. I will be at the next one for sure!

Loc


In a message dated 7/26/01 7:31:16 PM Central Daylight Time,
mlccougar@... writes:

<< Where were all of you last night? I might as well not have set the
chatroom
up, because it was just Rory and me....We could have had our chat in an IM.

We were hoping more of you would have shown up, but obviously you didn't. I
will set one up this coming Monday, July 30 at 7:30 / 8:30 eastern. If there
aren't more people this time, I won't set anymore up, someone else can do
it.
Why set it up if no one shows?

>>

.html And they didn't make it for 'us'. They made it for the current generation of cinema goers. Which is fine by me as I still consider myself a current 'cinema goer'.
Best,
KEN

Jack Krueger wrote:

Well, it's a matter of opinion whether that's a positive review. He hasn't seen any of the originals. It seems like the fans are taking this movie the hardest.                                                                   - - - - - Jeff K.  

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 11:28 AM

Subject: [pota] Check out Check the Grid - CTG Says...

 Click here: Check the Grid - CTG Says...

Here's a positive review of the new movie that's also spoiler free.

-- Rory
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

<.html

Attachments :

Follow the link below and it's the second thing on the page. It's kind of
funny.

Loc

.htmlClick here: PLANET OF THE APES / ** 1/2 (PG-13)

Well, here's Roger Ebert's review.  This is the one that I've been waiting
for and what he says is about what I expected -- and in fact he's more
positive than I thought he'd be.  There are no spoilers, and the last line in
the review is something we fans of the original will be pleased to hear.

-- Rory <.html

Attachments :

Hi! How are you?

I send you this file in order to have your advice

See you later. Thanks

Your computer is infected with the SirCam worm. Please see
http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,45427,00.html" for more information.

I was informed by someone that a subject called "Hi! How are you?" is a
virus. And then before it is that weird message about a virus. Do not
download the card email!

Loc

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 5:00 AM

Subject: [pota] Check out PLANET OF THE APES / ** 1/2 (PG-13)

Click here: PLANET OF THE APES / ** 1/2 (PG-13)

Well, here's Roger Ebert's review.  This is the one that I've been waiting
for and what he says is about what I expected -- and in fact he's more
positive than I thought he'd be.  There are no spoilers, and the last line in
the review is something we fans of the original will be pleased to hear.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 7/27/01 8:48:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
locutusatwolf359@... writes:

I was informed by someone that a subject called "Hi! How are you?" is a
virus. And then before it is that weird message about a virus. Do not
download the card email!

Loc

Thanks, but as soon as I read it I said, "Oh no you don't," and deleted it.

-- Rory<.html

Attachments :

.htmlYou gotta love these "Great Ape Project" people.

-- Rory<.html

.html Pretty much 'spot on'.
It's fun while it lasts, but when it's over, it's over.
I think those on this group who have been divided in their opinions prior to the film will be gratified... either way.
Best,
KEN

Haristas@... wrote:

 Click here: PLANET OF THE APES / ** 1/2 (PG-13)

Well, here's Roger Ebert's review.  This is the one that I've been waiting
for and what he says is about what I expected -- and in fact he's more
positive than I thought he'd be.  There are no spoilers, and the last line in
the review is something we fans of the original will be pleased to hear.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Ken & Heather Taylor

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 3:24 PM

Subject: Re: [pota] Check out PLANET OF THE APES / ** 1/2 (PG-13)

Pretty much 'spot on'.
It's fun while it lasts, but when it's over, it's over.
I think those on this group who have been divided in their opinions prior to the film will be gratified... either way.
Best,
KEN

Haristas@... wrote:

 Click here: PLANET OF THE APES / ** 1/2 (PG-13)

Well, here's Roger Ebert's review.  This is the one that I've been waiting
for and what he says is about what I expected -- and in fact he's more
positive than I thought he'd be.  There are no spoilers, and the last line in
the review is something we fans of the original will be pleased to hear.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

<.html

left work @ 2:30 to catch a 3:30 screening. Initial reactions:

- I like it!

- There was only one line that made me cringe

- Heston's cameo is awesome!

- Cool ending; though it did seem to contradict itself or was meant
to leave room for sequels.

- Script while not being incredible or anything is much better than
critics who've been trashing it are saying.

- Attar is awesome, as is Thade.

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 10:58 AM

Subject: [pota] Fwd: [GAPNews] GAP News Release: "Planet of the Apes"

You gotta love these "Great Ape Project" people.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

--- In pota@y..., danpiercy@y... wrote:

> left work @ 2:30 to catch a 3:30 screening. Initial reactions:
>
> - I like it!
>
> - There was only one line that made me cringe
>
> - Heston's cameo is awesome!
>
> - Cool ending; though it did seem to contradict itself or was meant
> to leave room for sequels.
>
> - Script while not being incredible or anything is much better than
> critics who've been trashing it are saying.
>
> - Attar is awesome, as is Thade.

I can't wait ! Mabey I can see it tommorw . I hope . Was the
theater packed ?

.htmlIn a message dated 7/27/01 8:08:38 PM Central Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

Where is everybody? Are you out ruling the planet?

I'm here, waiting for the Apes in the year 3978 to rule the planet, because
THEY are the REAL rulers of APEDOM......

<.html

.htmlRead these statements from Burton and an apparent Burton fan, and you will
see typical human behavior.    

MATT DRUDGE // DRUDGE REPORT 2001®

"They're waiting for blood.It's their nature.Human nature". (Prefect Barlow
in "The Gladiators" episode).<.html

> I can't wait ! Mabey I can see it tommorw . I hope . Was the
> theater packed ?

The theatre I went to tonight was so packed we had to shuffle our
feet and grab onto each others shoulders to get out! It's never been
that crowded before. But I loved the movie. Thade is awesome. And
they had people walking around in pota costumes too along with a news
crew outside. It was great fun. :D

-Syrena

.html <.html

--- Jack Krueger <williejoe@...> wrote:

> Actually, I was kinda pleased with the reviewers,
> who are standing up for the original. If this were
> just a movie, perhaps it would pass. But they're
> saying they expect more with that title.
> - -
> - - Jeff K.

I got a phone message from Joe Russo and he said read
the Ebert review -- he couldn't have said it better
himself.

I still haven't seen it. It's just past 11:30 PM and
AMC has the "Behind" documentary on. The Sci-Fi
Channel had an excellent show on the new film tonight,
and E! had two programs of APES on at the same time.
This movie is certainly getting a lot of publicity.

Also today I got the Joe Russo "Planet of the Apes
Revisited" book. It is excellent. And I got the
complete set of Topps cards to the new movie.

There's so much APES stuff going on right now I'm
starting to feel like I really need to Escape from the
Planet of the Apes.

But, tomorrow I go to see the new movie...

-- Rory

>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ken & Heather Taylor
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 3:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [pota] Check out PLANET OF THE APES /
> ** 1/2 (PG-13)
>
>
> Pretty much 'spot on'.
> It's fun while it lasts, but when it's over, it's
> over.
> I think those on this group who have been divided
> in their opinions prior to the film will be
> gratified... either way.
> Best,
> KEN
> Haristas@... wrote:
>
> Click here: PLANET OF THE APES / ** 1/2 (PG-13)
>
> Well, here's Roger Ebert's review. This is the
> one that I've been waiting
> for and what he says is about what I expected --
> and in fact he's more
> positive than I thought he'd be. There are no
> spoilers, and the last line in
> the review is something we fans of the original
> will be pleased to hear.
>
> -- Rory
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>

.htmlThe reviews were very positive great characters great eye candy that means a
sequal! I have not read one bad review usa today gave it high praise! this
means a good turn out and more apes merchandise! Everyone check your local
papers and let us know what the reviews are in your neck of the woods. Also
the MTV apes special is JUL 29 sun 8:00 am pacific time.and A an E channel
monday is showing Charlton Heston bio on jul 30th  3:00 pm pacific time and
8:00 pm pacific time.Cant see the new movie till sunday cant wait! Bryan<.html

I just got done with my Ape marathon for the night. I went and saw the new
film at 8:20 and then came home and immediately watched the original. What a
geek.

I enjoyed the new film. Although not perfect, it was a great escapism movie.
Here are just a few random thoughts off the top of my head:

- The makeup was awesome, although it did seem to make the actors lisp. I
still don't like the looks of the female apes, but I knew that going in.

- I thought most of the performances were fine. I was nervous about Wahlberg,
because although I like him as an actor I had heard that he kind of
sleepwalked through this film. I thought he did OK, but nothing to write home
about. Roth/Thade was great. Duncan/Attar was fine as was Bonham-Carter/Ari.
My favorite (and the definate crowd pleaser) was Giammati/Limbo. He was
literally chewing up the screen in each scene that he was in.

- The script was OK. I was expecting a lot worse. There were a few lines that
made me cringe, but most movies have those. They tipped their hat to the
original a few times and it did seem kind of forced.

- The plot was interesting. I kind of thought that they were going in a
different direction, but I was wrong, which is always good.

- The visuals were stunning. I loved the art direction and design of all of
the sets. What more would you expect from a Burton film?

- Some of the visual gags were a bit silly and campy. I guess I would have
changed anything, that would be it.

- The action and fight scenes were pretty exciting.

- As a whole, the apes were more menacing, scary and ape-like. I liked the
way they jumped around and ran on all fours.

- Chuck's cameo was kind of pointless. It just seemed like it was written in
to get him in the film and joke around (although it is kind of a serious
scene). And if you blink, then you'll miss Linda Harrison. What's the point
of putting her in if she is only on for a split second?

- There are parts of the film that Boulle fans will like.

- The ending was a bit or a head scratcher and I can see why people are
turned off by it, but I kind of liked it (although I don't fully understand
it). I may have to see the film again or get into a discussion about it to
see how (or if) it makes sense. But to me it was entertaining and not
offensive (I will say no more).

- I liked this film as a Tim Burton film. I am a big Burton fan and felt he
delivered again. Although the film was flawed (as most of his are) I still
was enchanted by it.

- I also liked the film as an Apes film. It worked for me. Parts of it had
the spirit of the originals and just felt like the Planet of the Apes. I went
in with an open mind, knowing full well that it couldn't top the original,
but it had a chance to top the sequels. I felt that it did. To me the new
film is not as good as the original POTA or ESCAPE, perhaps better than
CONQUEST, and definately better than BENEATH or BATTLE.

That's all for now. I will discuss more later. I have to sleep on it and see
if I have any more thoughts.

Matt

.htmlIn a message dated 7/28/01 12:27:21 AM Central Daylight Time, MTotsky@...
writes:

- Chuck's cameo was kind of pointless. It just seemed like it was written in
to get him in the film and joke around (although it is kind of a serious
scene). And if you blink, then you'll miss Linda Harrison. What's the point
of putting her in if she is only on for a split second?

No, I haven't seen the movie, so you may say "How can you comment on this?"
Well this is something that can be commented on without seeing any of it at
all. I really think both Heston and Harrison's (useless) cameos were nothing
more than "novelties". They were used in a way (yes, they "let" themselves be
used, no one forced them in). Used in the aspect of trying to get curiousity
seekers in to see what all the talk was about...But the kids that see this
movie sure don't seem to know who they are anyway, so it must just be to get
fans of the Planet movie.

- The ending was a bit or a head scratcher and I can see why people are
turned off by it, but I kind of liked it (although I don't fully understand
it). I may have to see the film again or get into a discussion about it to
see how (or if) it makes sense. But to me it was entertaining and not
offensive (I will say no more).

And I just left an APES chatroom.While I really couldn't say too much to
them about the ending, other than what I know from the group, the ending
certainly was the talk of the room.Only one guy in the room (of 8 people)
seemed to be able to give the others any help as to the ending. And it does
seem to be quite a turn off. It won't help the movie, thats for sure.
 
And the word seems to be "stay away from this movie". No, these aren't just
my (biased) words...There are a lot of people that are saying this. Click
this to read some of them: Planet of the Apes

   
  Yeah, a lot of these postings in the link I sent are repeatative.But they
do show that a lot of people are saying "Save your time and money."<.html

.htmlHey, I just sent a link that I said had a lot of negative reviews of the
movie. Well, I just looked at my posting I sent, and I clicked on the link...
There were only 3 posts on this linked sight. BUT if you want to see them
all, simply click on the little bluish folder in the top left corner (the one
with the little arrow on it). It should have them all listed, cuz it did when
I clicked on it. <.html

.htmlIn a message dated 7/28/01 1:18:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Kay53531@...
writes:

The reviews were very positive great characters great eye candy that means a
sequal! I have not read one bad review usa today gave it high praise! this
means a good turn out and more apes merchandise! Everyone check your local
papers and let us know what the reviews are in your neck of the woods. Also
the MTV apes special is JUL 29 sun 8:00 am pacific time.and A an E channel
monday is showing Charlton Heston bio on jul 30th  3:00 pm pacific time and
8:00 pm pacific time.Cant see the new movie till sunday cant wait! Bryan

It got three stars in my local paper here in Ft. Lauderdale, Fl.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlNO SPOILERS: Regarding the post from Scott who needs help understanding the
ending, I also am in need of some help. I have one or two interpretations of
my own but would like to get some feedback from some other POTA fans as well.
Please email me at ToadNoMore@... and tell me what you think. I came out
of the theatre confused and laid in bed trying to piece it all together! All
in all I loved the movie though of course I don't think anything could ever
compare to the original. <.html

What's the consenses of the group?
Are we talking about Apes?
Are there any Brits listening?
Have all the Yanks seen it yet?
I'm bursting to, but I'll wait until I'm not giving anything away.

--- In pota@y..., syrena@a... wrote:

> > I can't wait ! Mabey I can see it tommorw . I hope . Was the
> > theater packed ?
>
> The theatre I went to tonight was so packed we had to shuffle our
> feet and grab onto each others shoulders to get out! It's never

been

> that crowded before. But I loved the movie. Thade is awesome. And
> they had people walking around in pota costumes too along with a

news

> crew outside. It was great fun. :D
>
> -Syrena

Haha ! I love it . People definetly got the ape spirit back!Yah
here the theater that my dad wanted to go to was sold out . I wanted
to go so badly .But he let me get the book from amazon though.(-: I
wounder if I should wait for a month are so to see it. I'm terified
of large crowds .But it's weird .It's like I don't care .Cause I
wan't to see it so badly.

I'm gonna end up loving Thade and Attar . Heck I all ready do .

I kinda wish we had a seperate group for the new film.
I'd love to discuss it but I think we either need to wait, or put Spoiler
Alert on the Subject lines.

.htmlFirst, I just want to say that I am new here, but as all of you are, I am a
huge "POTA" fan.

this is what i am responding to:
The reviews were very positive great characters great eye candy that means a
sequal! I have not read one bad review usa today gave it high praise! this
means a good turn out and more apes merchandise! Everyone check your local
papers and let us know what the reviews are in your neck of the woods
~~~~~~`
Okay, I have read many bad reviews on the new MONKEY.....oh wait,,I do not
want to offend the apes....I mean APE film.  I cannot blame the media on
this.  This film has gone through so many changes since it started.  It was a
Cameron film.  It was an Oliver Stone film.  Even Arnold Schwarzeneger was
going to play Taylor at one time.  The Promotions and marketing for this film
have been outstanding.  It is no wonder that this is a highly anticpated
film.  The studios were worried, so they pushed the production up the film.  
It was not going to be released until Christmas, but I guess film executives
smelled blood of bad box office hits.  This changed had Burton and staff in
the studio fixing things up to this past Monday..This is no joke.  

Anyway, like other films with such high anticipation, it comes with a huge
price tag.  Critics are going to over analyze this film.   USA Today is the
only positive review that I have seen.  Ebert talked of how the plot holes
and the dead acting between relationships drove this from a four star rating.
The Miami Herald said it was less then stellar. (by the way check all reviews
on CHECKTHEGRID.com)

I think that it will make lots of money, but I was sad that Burton was not
more Burton-like and Walhberg did not show more expression.  I would have
also liked more emphasis on the emotions by the humans.  I mean where is the
LOve and Compassion?

Anyway, saying all that, I still loved this film.  It had some good twists,
and the score was interesting.  I still prefer the Jerry Goldsmith original,
but you should not compare the two films.  The apes looked terrific, and APE
city is fun.

I will see it again, but if this does not make over 200 million, we will see
no sequal, so I want it to kill at the box office

this is ol'blue eyes saying
thanks<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: toadnomore@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 9:51 AM

Subject: [pota] Re: May Day, May Day

NO SPOILERS: Regarding the post from Scott who needs help understanding the
ending, I also am in need of some help. I have one or two interpretations of
my own but would like to get some feedback from some other POTA fans as well.
Please email me at ToadNoMore@... and tell me what you think. I came out
of the theatre confused and laid in bed trying to piece it all together! All
in all I loved the movie though of course I don't think anything could ever
compare to the original.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: mlccougar@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 8:27 PM

Subject: [pota] Typical humans

Read these statements from Burton and an apparent Burton fan, and you will
see typical human behavior.    

MATT DRUDGE // DRUDGE REPORT 2001®

"They're waiting for blood.It's their nature.Human nature". (Prefect Barlow
in "The Gladiators" episode).

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.htmlHey Rory,seems like thats the norm between 3 and 4 stars! Bryan<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 7/28/01 12:15:38 PM Central Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

That's Drudge fanning his own fire. I read the quotes and Burton doesn't
mention Drudge specifically.

I can't say if you are right or wrong, because I never even heard of Drudge
until this story came out. I have no idea if he is the type to "fan his own
fire" or not. But it does seem that Burton made these comments at (or about)
Drudge. Again, it is hard to tell because these comments are taken out of
context, but I do think they were aimed at Drudge. But, based on what I do
know, I'm not too thrilled with either one of them (Burton or Drudge), so
they can go on with their little "battle".<.html

In a message dated 7/28/01 11:08:27 AM Central Daylight Time,
docoffilm1@... writes:

<< this is ol'blue eyes saying
thanks >>

Hi Frank!
It's good to hear from the maketing department.

.html <.html

.html <.html

.htmlWARNING:  Don't read this if you can't stand hearing how someone really feels.




Folks, fellow APES fans, I have just seen Burton's POTA (I'll never again
type out the title with that idiot's name next to it.)

I love going to the movies, truly love it, but I have just had one of the
worst movie-going experiences of my life.

Back in '68 when I was eight years old, I had THE best movie-going experience
ever when I saw the original PLANET OF THE APES.  I will now cherish that
memory more than ever for I realize now what a unique thing it was, probably
never to be repeated.

Pierre Boulle's novel was a brilliantly delicate piece of satire that worked,
and the makers of the first film, while altering his vision drastically,
captured perfectly the harrowing tone of the book and even refined on it some.

The people behind this new film seem to have not understood jack about what
made the concept successful originally and have created a piece of junk -- an
unmitigated disaster that has ruined the APES francise from ever being
resurrected.   Fox better hope for a very good opening weekend, because once
word-of-mouth gets out on this, it's done.   I'll be surprised if it's number
one at the boxoffice next week.

Of course, my standards are high.  If I had made a new APES picture, I would
have simply shot Boulle's book.  I wouldn't have given a damn about if it was
going to get a R rating, or if it could sell toys -- I would have made a
serious film for adults.

I'm not going to say anymore because I know there are still many of you who
plan to see this film.  You may like it.  If so, good for you.  I'm done.  I
couldn't care less how it does at the boxoffice, what action figures come
out, or if there is going to be a sequel -- hell, I don't even care about
buying a DVD of this piece of crap.

I only wish I could go back in time, so I could stop the making of this movie.

Mlccougar -- you were right.    Sorry, Alex.

-- Rory<.html

.html <.html

.htmlIn a message dated 7/28/01 2:57:30 PM Central Daylight Time,
prophecysite@... writes:

25 million in one day!!

RULE THE PLANET!


Maybe it did make that much, but will it be able to sustain itself after the
initial curiuosity seekers have seen it? And I have been seeing a lot of
people saying the ending ruined it for them...Now I don't know if that will
hurt it or not, it could get people in to see if they can figure it out, or
it may keep them away because they won't want to deal with it.

Anyway, regardless of how it does, it is what it is, and I (myself) will
never consider it as an Apes movie, but there are those that will and that's
fine. Just because it may make money doesn't make it part of Apes canon
though. But enough about that, I've said it all before.

But, from what I've been reading, it seems to be quite confusing to the
audience. So I will ask those of you that have seen it, do you think that
this is true? I mean can you honestly say that the ending is self
explanatory, or can you see where the mass audience wouldn't get it? And can
I ask you if you can honestly say that the characterization is on par with
the original? I was in a chatroom last night, and one guy said to me that he
walked out of the theater not remembering the name of even one single
character.

As to the questions I asked in the paragraph above, you may say to me: "Well
go see it and judge for yourself." If you say that, I'd see where you are
coming from. But I'm just looking for your opinions on this subject. I'm not
that curious that I'd go against all I said in the past. But I do want to
know what those of you in the group that were "on the fence" on this subject
thought about it.<.html

.html <.html

.htmlIn a message dated 7/28/01 3:16:31 PM Central Daylight Time,
prophecysite@... writes:

No need to be sorry Rory.

25 million in one day!

YEEEEE HAAAAA!!!!

I know I just sent a posting saying this, but I have to say it again. I just
read Rory's posting. I think that what he said will be echoed by MANY, MANY,
MANY people, that it doesn't matter what the box office receipts are, or
whatever else. I think it's looking like a lot of the people that saw this
movie will want their part of the $25 million back. I bet if they refunded
money to those that are feeling the way Rory does, that this movie wouldn't
have "made" that much. I'd bet it really only satisfied a very small
percentage of the audience. But thats my guess. I won't see it to find out.
The two postings in this group (Rory's and Lawford42's) said all I needed to
hear. They "validated" my preconceived notion of what this movie would be, at
least to me. Now I know I'll never think "Maybe I should give it a chance".

And I know this was brought up some time ago in the postings, but does the
$$$ something makes make it good? I certainly don't think so. And does the
money something makes make it memorable? I think not... Look at some of the
current moneymakers:I'll use the teeny bopper groups as an example.They are
raking in cash left and right. Well big deal, I almost guarantee that in a
year or two they will be forgotten by the masses. All the money they made
can't make them stand the test of time. And let's just say this "New Apes"
just cleans up at the theaters....let's really stretch our imaginations and
say it out performs "Titanic", that still doesn't put it on par with the Real
Apes movie. All the money in the world can't get this movie to be in the same
classification as that AWESOME ORIGINAL. Having talking apes does not make it
an Apes movie, that was my argument from the get go. I don't care if it is a
"hit movie" or not, time will tell how it performs at the theater. But it
will never be an Apes movie, other than in its name. It may fool some people
but not me.

<.html

.html <.html

.htmlIn a message dated 7/28/01 6:30:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
whitty@... writes:

Good to see mixed opinions - I will generalise here and say that anyone who
is/was precious and protective of the original is/will be offended and
upset by this new effort.  That's sad, but again I say that the positive to
gain from this movie is that the general public wants to see movies about
talking apes - this opens a door that has been closed for many, many years.

Hi Michael,

Perhaps it's impossible for me to like this movie because it's not the film I
wanted to see done, or in the way I wanted it to be done, but it really is a
very mixed bag indeed.

I wish you could see it now.  I'd like to hear what everybody has to say.

I will say one thing that I did like in the film was the main titles, they
were cool.  And Boulle got his credit, though I'm sure he's spinning in his
grave.

I also was with the movie right up until the hunt was over, then THUD!   Bad
dialogue everywhere!

I won't say anymore now.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 7/28/01 6:30:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
whitty@... writes:

Good to see mixed opinions - I will generalise here and say that anyone who
is/was precious and protective of the original is/will be offended and
upset by this new effort.  That's sad, but again I say that the positive to
gain from this movie is that the general public wants to see movies about
talking apes - this opens a door that has been closed for many, many years.

Also. . . Are you really sure the public WANTS to see movies with talking
apes, or is it just that Fox WANTS to make money from movies with talking
apes?

-- Rory<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 6:38 PM

Subject: Re: [pota] No Spoilers

In a message dated 7/28/01 6:30:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
whitty@... writes:

Good to see mixed opinions - I will generalise here and say that anyone who
is/was precious and protective of the original is/will be offended and
upset by this new effort.  That's sad, but again I say that the positive to
gain from this movie is that the general public wants to see movies about
talking apes - this opens a door that has been closed for many, many years.

Hi Michael,

Perhaps it's impossible for me to like this movie because it's not the film I
wanted to see done, or in the way I wanted it to be done, but it really is a
very mixed bag indeed.

I wish you could see it now.  I'd like to hear what everybody has to say.

I will say one thing that I did like in the film was the main titles, they
were cool.  And Boulle got his credit, though I'm sure he's spinning in his
grave.

I also was with the movie right up until the hunt was over, then THUD!   Bad
dialogue everywhere!

I won't say anymore now.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Alexander Ruiz

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 1:22 PM

Subject: [pota] RE: GOD DAMN THEM ALL TO HELL!!!!

Mlccougar -- you were right.    Sorry, Alex.

No need to be sorry Rory.

 

25 million in one day!

 

YEEEEE HAAAAA!!!!

 

Best,

Al

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 1:11 PM

Subject: [pota] GOD DAMN THEM ALL TO HELL!!!!

WARNING:  Don't read this if you can't stand hearing how someone really feels.




Folks, fellow APES fans, I have just seen Burton's POTA (I'll never again
type out the title with that idiot's name next to it.)

I love going to the movies, truly love it, but I have just had one of the
worst movie-going experiences of my life.

Back in '68 when I was eight years old, I had THE best movie-going experience
ever when I saw the original PLANET OF THE APES.  I will now cherish that
memory more than ever for I realize now what a unique thing it was, probably
never to be repeated.

Pierre Boulle's novel was a brilliantly delicate piece of satire that worked,
and the makers of the first film, while altering his vision drastically,
captured perfectly the harrowing tone of the book and even refined on it some.

The people behind this new film seem to have not understood jack about what
made the concept successful originally and have created a piece of junk -- an
unmitigated disaster that has ruined the APES francise from ever being
resurrected.   Fox better hope for a very good opening weekend, because once
word-of-mouth gets out on this, it's done.   I'll be surprised if it's number
one at the boxoffice next week.

Of course, my standards are high.  If I had made a new APES picture, I would
have simply shot Boulle's book.  I wouldn't have given a damn about if it was
going to get a R rating, or if it could sell toys -- I would have made a
serious film for adults.

I'm not going to say anymore because I know there are still many of you who
plan to see this film.  You may like it.  If so, good for you.  I'm done.  I
couldn't care less how it does at the boxoffice, what action figures come
out, or if there is going to be a sequel -- hell, I don't even care about
buying a DVD of this piece of crap.

I only wish I could go back in time, so I could stop the making of this movie.

Mlccougar -- you were right.    Sorry, Alex.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

I just got back from the movie and I am very disappointed.
What bummed me out most was that the logic flaws were so big you could drive
Mack trucks through them. Sci Fi fans tend to be a rather intelligent lot
and this movie insults your intelligence to a criminal degree making it near
impossible to suspend your disbelief and be transported to another world.
The best I can say is that it has some really cool elements to it.
Unfortunately those cool elements seem to be hammered together haphazardly
like a house without a blueprint. :(

Dave Lasher
http://www.mp3.com/davelasher

>From: "Shelby Rhodes" <slave1@...>
>Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [pota] DAMN THEM ALL (And SPOILERS added)
>Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 17:33:27 -0400
>
>WARNING: Don't read this if you can't stand hearing how someone really
>feels.
>
>
>Same goes for me too, and SPOILERS are below, so don't scroll down if you
>don't want to read . ..
>
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>
>After seeing this film last night, one of my friends' observations was that
>it "Sucked ass."
>While I don't think I'll go that far, I certainly agreed during certainly
>parts of the film. But I'll get to that in a sec.
>
>What I liked:
>1. A good chunk of the beginning--everything in fact, right up until they
>entered Ape City as prisoners.
>2. Nice art direction and inventive costuming. Really liked the
>exploration pods.
>3. I liked the re-envisioning twist of Leo being responsible for the whole
>mess as it happened. The new evolution twist and introduction of DNA info
>was nice.
>4. Bonham-Carter is a fine actress, especially given the material
>5. Nice action and entertaining for the most part
>6. Terrific and rousing Danny Elfman score!
>7. The beginning credits, especially coupled with the score were very
>well-done!
>8. I really liked Tim Roth's makeup, and the fact that they added finger
>extensions on this time.
>
>
>During the entire first section, everything went along very nicely in the
>beginning, and, as I've said, the score was so nice I really thought this
>was going to be an excellent film. All through the crash-landing and
>through the hunt sequence I kept thinking "I like this! What was I worried
>about?!"
>
>Then they got to Ape City and something fell apart for me shortly after. :(
>
>What I didn't like:
>
>1. During the apes leaping through the air, it somehow looked too
>over-the-top, as if they were circus performers being launched from
>cannons. Kind of looked like they were floating or flying rather than
>leaping. Just seemed hoaky.
>2. Bonham-Carter's makeup wasn't ape-like enough. She looked way too hot!
>She looked better even than Daena, the human quasi-love interest. Add in
>the stylish trend-setting hair style she had.
>3. Speaking of Daena, there didn't seem to be much in the story for her to
>do. Ion't even know what she was doing in the story, and apparently Burton
>didn't seem to know what to do with her either. Linda Harrison's character
>in the original also seemed to convey a lot more feeling and meaning, which
>is ironic, since Nova couldn't even speak.
>4. Didn't generally care for the makeup, other than Tim Roth's. I
>understand that they did it so the actors could articulate better, but you
>drop the larger muzzle and they don't seem quite as ape-like. I guess it
>was okay since it was a stylized look, but I much prefered any of Rick
>Baker's ape work over what he did for this film with the flatter faces.
>5. While Roth seems to be touted as a high point, I felt that character was
>just a little bit over the top. I like villains with a little more depth
>and not so one-dimensional--hence, Attar's character seemed much more
>interesting. (But, I'll take what I can get on this film, so maybe I'd
>even count Thade as an asset). Wish they had give Attar more to do
>actually.
>6. There were many one-liners that made me cringe, and others that the
>audience just didn't accept or didn't like:
>
> a. "Can't we all just . .. get along?"
> b. "Get stinking hand off me, you damn dirty human!"
> c. "Show me the way out of here and I'll show you something that will
>change your world" (or whatever that line was.)
> d. "Damn them all to hell."
>
>7. Charleton Heston just stood out like a sore thumb. People were laughing
>in the theater upon recognizing him. Such cameos should not call attention
>to themselves. If they do that, they cause more harm than good.
>8. All the inter-class segregation was gone among the apes. That was an
>interesting facet of the original that was just dropped from this film. I
>also missed the definition of the classes. Chimps no longer necessarily
>the pacificists and the gorillas mindless soldiers.
>9. Where'd the horses come from? I know where the humans came from and I
>know where the apes came from, but did they have horses on the original
>ship?
>10. So much was left out that could have been explored. It was a straight
>actioner, which seldom paused to ponder, and no Mark Wahlberg didn't seem
>especially shocked at the talking apes.
>11. The ending was flaky as hell. Everyone was groaning to see an Ape face
>on the Lincoln Memorial statue. General Thade? I don't know what that
>means. Same Thade? A time traveler himself? Funny, but I found myself
>not caring much at that point.
>
>The cop cars and firetrucks pulling up, all being driven by apes? It
>worked in the book, but here it seemed somehow not to work. Instead of
>everyone in the theater going "Oh my God!" in shock, they instead were
>laughing. Though that scene worked in print, I think there have been far
>too many movies with gimic endings for anyone to accept this one without
>considering it cliche. As I said, everyone in the theater I was in was
>laughing at the pale attempt at irony.
>
>
>In summation, I think the original stands up because of the shock it
>instilled during its time. Nothing quite like it had ever been done.
>There is nothing in the new film that I can honestly say hasn't been done
>at one time or other.
>
>It reminds me a bit of Star Wars Episode One. It was generally well-done,
>but often flawed and somewhat unnecessary, and it certainly wouldn't have
>done much business in and of itself. I think the same is true of Apes.
>Would this film have done well if there had not been so many avid fans of
>the original? Heck no! And I think there are a lot of folks out there who
>are so hungry for a new Apes film, they'll take anything put on their
>plate, whether it's a gourmet meal or a turd. That was the same case with
>the Phantom Menace, but I will never consider this film or TPM true parts
>of those series. The same chemistry just isn't there.
>
>Ultimately, the flick didn't do much for me other than entertain me for a
>couple of hours, and it certainly wasn't as thought-provoking as the
>original. The definitive Apes film was done decades ago, and I'm satisfied
>in knowing that.
>
>
>

_____

I just got back from the movie and I am very disappointed.
What bummed me out most was that the logic flaws were so big you could drive
Mack trucks through them. Sci Fi fans tend to be a rather intelligent lot
and this movie insults your intelligence to a criminal degree making it near
impossible to suspend your disbelief and be transported to another world.
The best I can say is that it has some really cool elements to it.
Unfortunately those cool elements seem to be hammered together haphazardly
like a house without a blueprint. :(

Dave Lasher
http://www.mp3.com/davelasher

>From: "Shelby Rhodes" <slave1@...>
>Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [pota] DAMN THEM ALL (And SPOILERS added)
>Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 17:33:27 -0400
>
>WARNING: Don't read this if you can't stand hearing how someone really
>feels.
>
>
>Same goes for me too, and SPOILERS are below, so don't scroll down if you
>don't want to read . ..
>
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>.
>
>After seeing this film last night, one of my friends' observations was that
>it "Sucked ass."
>While I don't think I'll go that far, I certainly agreed during certainly
>parts of the film. But I'll get to that in a sec.
>
>What I liked:
>1. A good chunk of the beginning--everything in fact, right up until they
>entered Ape City as prisoners.
>2. Nice art direction and inventive costuming. Really liked the
>exploration pods.
>3. I liked the re-envisioning twist of Leo being responsible for the whole
>mess as it happened. The new evolution twist and introduction of DNA info
>was nice.
>4. Bonham-Carter is a fine actress, especially given the material
>5. Nice action and entertaining for the most part
>6. Terrific and rousing Danny Elfman score!
>7. The beginning credits, especially coupled with the score were very
>well-done!
>8. I really liked Tim Roth's makeup, and the fact that they added finger
>extensions on this time.
>
>
>During the entire first section, everything went along very nicely in the
>beginning, and, as I've said, the score was so nice I really thought this
>was going to be an excellent film. All through the crash-landing and
>through the hunt sequence I kept thinking "I like this! What was I worried
>about?!"
>
>Then they got to Ape City and something fell apart for me shortly after. :(
>
>What I didn't like:
>
>1. During the apes leaping through the air, it somehow looked too
>over-the-top, as if they were circus performers being launched from
>cannons. Kind of looked like they were floating or flying rather than
>leaping. Just seemed hoaky.
>2. Bonham-Carter's makeup wasn't ape-like enough. She looked way too hot!
>She looked better even than Daena, the human quasi-love interest. Add in
>the stylish trend-setting hair style she had.
>3. Speaking of Daena, there didn't seem to be much in the story for her to
>do. Ion't even know what she was doing in the story, and apparently Burton
>didn't seem to know what to do with her either. Linda Harrison's character
>in the original also seemed to convey a lot more feeling and meaning, which
>is ironic, since Nova couldn't even speak.
>4. Didn't generally care for the makeup, other than Tim Roth's. I
>understand that they did it so the actors could articulate better, but you
>drop the larger muzzle and they don't seem quite as ape-like. I guess it
>was okay since it was a stylized look, but I much prefered any of Rick
>Baker's ape work over what he did for this film with the flatter faces.
>5. While Roth seems to be touted as a high point, I felt that character was
>just a little bit over the top. I like villains with a little more depth
>and not so one-dimensional--hence, Attar's character seemed much more
>interesting. (But, I'll take what I can get on this film, so maybe I'd
>even count Thade as an asset). Wish they had give Attar more to do
>actually.
>6. There were many one-liners that made me cringe, and others that the
>audience just didn't accept or didn't like:
>
> a. "Can't we all just . .. get along?"
> b. "Get stinking hand off me, you damn dirty human!"
> c. "Show me the way out of here and I'll show you something that will
>change your world" (or whatever that line was.)
> d. "Damn them all to hell."
>
>7. Charleton Heston just stood out like a sore thumb. People were laughing
>in the theater upon recognizing him. Such cameos should not call attention
>to themselves. If they do that, they cause more harm than good.
>8. All the inter-class segregation was gone among the apes. That was an
>interesting facet of the original that was just dropped from this film. I
>also missed the definition of the classes. Chimps no longer necessarily
>the pacificists and the gorillas mindless soldiers.
>9. Where'd the horses come from? I know where the humans came from and I
>know where the apes came from, but did they have horses on the original
>ship?
>10. So much was left out that could have been explored. It was a straight
>actioner, which seldom paused to ponder, and no Mark Wahlberg didn't seem
>especially shocked at the talking apes.
>11. The ending was flaky as hell. Everyone was groaning to see an Ape face
>on the Lincoln Memorial statue. General Thade? I don't know what that
>means. Same Thade? A time traveler himself? Funny, but I found myself
>not caring much at that point.
>
>The cop cars and firetrucks pulling up, all being driven by apes? It
>worked in the book, but here it seemed somehow not to work. Instead of
>everyone in the theater going "Oh my God!" in shock, they instead were
>laughing. Though that scene worked in print, I think there have been far
>too many movies with gimic endings for anyone to accept this one without
>considering it cliche. As I said, everyone in the theater I was in was
>laughing at the pale attempt at irony.
>
>
>In summation, I think the original stands up because of the shock it
>instilled during its time. Nothing quite like it had ever been done.
>There is nothing in the new film that I can honestly say hasn't been done
>at one time or other.
>
>It reminds me a bit of Star Wars Episode One. It was generally well-done,
>but often flawed and somewhat unnecessary, and it certainly wouldn't have
>done much business in and of itself. I think the same is true of Apes.
>Would this film have done well if there had not been so many avid fans of
>the original? Heck no! And I think there are a lot of folks out there who
>are so hungry for a new Apes film, they'll take anything put on their
>plate, whether it's a gourmet meal or a turd. That was the same case with
>the Phantom Menace, but I will never consider this film or TPM true parts
>of those series. The same chemistry just isn't there.
>
>Ultimately, the flick didn't do much for me other than entertain me for a
>couple of hours, and it certainly wasn't as thought-provoking as the
>original. The definitive Apes film was done decades ago, and I'm satisfied
>in knowing that.
>
>
>

_____

Yes I did like it . Some parts buged me . Like the Heston scean.I
love the ending . That was great . I my self do read the comics ,and
have the old tv series . So I'll probaly saport this thing till it's
done .


I loved Tim Rooth and Michale Clarke Duncane .Helena Caratar was a
pleasent suppries.I liked her a lot .

Jeff,
I think your review was also spot on. This thing is going to divide the
fans post release as much as it did pre-release. Hell, I'm still kinda
undecided myself. I really wanted to like it and did for many parts but
came away feeling kind of flat about the whole thing.
I actually found Thade a tad annoying and over-the-top, Limbo was kind
of like the the 'Dr Smith' ( the campy TV version, not the remake
version...and let's not even open THAT can of worms) of the show and was
obviously included for some obvious comic ( a-hem) relief.
Having said all that, I'm keen to see it again without such a critical
eye.
Best,
KEN

.htmlIn a message dated 7/29/01 12:01:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
kentaylor@... writes:

Jeff,
I think your review was also spot on. This thing is going to divide the
fans post release as much as it did pre-release. Hell, I'm still kinda
undecided myself. I really wanted to like it and did for many parts but
came away feeling kind of flat about the whole thing.
I actually found Thade a tad annoying and over-the-top, Limbo was kind
of like the the 'Dr Smith' ( the campy TV version, not the remake
version...and let's not even open THAT can of worms) of the show and was
obviously included for some obvious comic ( a-hem) relief.
Having said all that, I'm keen to see it again without such a critical
eye.
Best,
KEN

I guess I'm currently suffering from that too critical eye.  Right now I'm
still too depressed that the movie is the way it is.

-- Rory
<.html

Ok, here's my opinion. I was expecting to hate this movie. I have seen so
many bad movies lately! Every time I go to the movies and it isn't even that
often since I live so far from the theater, I come away feeling the same way
I felt after seeing Star Wars: Episode 1. Like "that was ok but not great".
And then the more I think about the film the more I begin to downright just
plain hate it. This has held true with all the recent films I have seen.
"Pearl Harbor" and "A.I." just to name two. But this movie has actually saved
my movie going experience! I loved it from start to finish! I loved the
action in it even though there wasn't much drama to it. The music was
wonderful! I bought the soundtrack just after leaving the theater and am
listening to it now. I absolutely loved the ending and thought it paid due
tribute to Pierre Boulle. But, I can see how many of you would hate it at the
same time. I'm a relatively new POTA fan since I only saw all the films for
the first time last year when the dvd's came out. I love the orignal films
more than any other film series now. I don't think of this new film as cannon
for sure. It really isn't. But much of POTA has been a little different from
each show. The movies have that different time period in each film, the
cartoons and tv shows have some of the same characters names that were in the
movies but it is an alternate reality in my opinion from the original, and
the comic books are just totally different. Like I said I really liked this
film but I am open to everyone elses opinion and why they didn't like it. I
will say this though... I will be first in line for the sequel. And Alex, I
totally agree with you now! LOL!

Loc

BTW Alex, I posted a message to you last week I believe and it didn't go
through thanks to the lousy yahoo bastards. I listened to your cd again and
still love it! When are you going to do another one for the new movie, tv
series, and cartoon? I would be more than happy to buy it from you when you
make it! I love that kind of techno club music anyway. I think they stole
your idea on the new POTA alblum for the last song.

.htmlIt cant get any worse than Phantom menace people said it was more of a kids
movie than the others star wars films! When Star trek went to motion pictures
it had some less than perfect stories the whales critics hated it.i say lets
wait and see about the sequal in 2003 and get a trilogy going theres more to
be told,we are not used to the new change so we all react like we are not
sure if it will grow on us .I was that way with Phantom Menace but the more
times i saw it the more comfortable I got and added it to my collection  
Bryan will see movie tomorrow<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 9:06 PM

Subject: Re: [pota] Been there, done that (No spoilers)

In a message dated 7/29/01 12:01:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
kentaylor@... writes:

Jeff,
I think your review was also spot on. This thing is going to divide the
fans post release as much as it did pre-release. Hell, I'm still kinda
undecided myself. I really wanted to like it and did for many parts but
came away feeling kind of flat about the whole thing.
I actually found Thade a tad annoying and over-the-top, Limbo was kind
of like the the 'Dr Smith' ( the campy TV version, not the remake
version...and let's not even open THAT can of worms) of the show and was
obviously included for some obvious comic ( a-hem) relief.
Having said all that, I'm keen to see it again without such a critical
eye.
Best,
KEN

I guess I'm currently suffering from that too critical eye.  Right now I'm
still too depressed that the movie is the way it is.

-- Rory


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 7/29/01 12:53:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

Face it, Rory, this was inevitable. Big budget Hollywood's track record of
botching remakes is complete. But I look at it this way, at least the
damage is minimal. It's a fun movie with at least an attempt at social
commentary. I'm grateful that there's at least a little artistry to it,
it's not a hack job. Plus, Mr. Zanuck gets some money in his pocket. Isn't
he the guy who convinced Jacobs what's-his-name that the original would
make a good movie?                                 - - - - Jeff K.

Well, I guess it's good to try and look on the positive side.   I'm positive
I don't care if I ever see this film again.

By the way, I just talked to Joe Russo.  He liked it, but with reservations.  
He's mostly just glad people are talking about APES again.  He also had
dinner with Linda Harrison and she thinks there will be a sequel.

-- Rory<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 10:05 PM

Subject: Re: [pota] Been there, done that (No spoilers)

In a message dated 7/29/01 12:53:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

Face it, Rory, this was inevitable. Big budget Hollywood's track record of
botching remakes is complete. But I look at it this way, at least the
damage is minimal. It's a fun movie with at least an attempt at social
commentary. I'm grateful that there's at least a little artistry to it,
it's not a hack job. Plus, Mr. Zanuck gets some money in his pocket. Isn't
he the guy who convinced Jacobs what's-his-name that the original would
make a good movie?                                 - - - - Jeff K.

Well, I guess it's good to try and look on the positive side.   I'm positive
I don't care if I ever see this film again.

By the way, I just talked to Joe Russo.  He liked it, but with reservations.  
He's mostly just glad people are talking about APES again.  He also had
dinner with Linda Harrison and she thinks there will be a sequel.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.htmlI was surprised to see the original screenplay by Wilson and Serling credited<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2001 10:16 PM

Subject: Re: [pota] Been there, done that (No spoilers)

I was surprised to see the original screenplay by Wilson and Serling credited

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

In a message dated 7/28/01 11:53:27 PM Central Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

<< Plus, Mr. Zanuck gets some money in his pocket. Isn't he the guy who
convinced Jacobs what's-his-name that the original would make a good movie?

>>

Whoaho, the sarcasm detector is off the scale.
~~Dr. Frink, The Simpsons~~~

.htmlIn a message dated 7/29/01 12:18:35 AM Central Daylight Time,
Haristas@... writes:

I was surprised to see the original screenplay by Wilson and Serling credited

Any references to the real Apes movie were only made to try to satisfy fans
of it by saying "See, we are giving the original credit. We are paying
'tribute' to it by doing this 'reimagination' of it..."  And if you really
think that they are paying tribute to PLANET, well then I have some ocean
front property in Arizona I can sell ya...<.html

--- In pota@y..., "Alexander Ruiz" <prophecysite@h...> wrote:

> 25 million in one day!!

I know how you feel, Alex. That's about the only nice thing I could
think of to say about the film as well. And I was jazzed to see it.
Wanted to like it.

Coolest part of the film? The trailer for "Ghost World".

Second coolest - using the original font for the opening credits, and
ANIMATING it. Loved that.

After that, shit went downhill fast. Oof. Where to begin . . .

Desert battle scene aside, the whole movie takes place at night. Ape
City looked like the Ewok village at night, except more fake.

I was straining to understand what the ape actors were saying for a
good deal of the film. Acting was terrible, with Tim Roth leading
the pack. One note performance, stuck in "seething" mode. Nice to
look at, though. Michael Clarke Duncan went dead under the makeup
(all the gorillas seemed to be doing impressions of Worf from Star
Trek). Limbo the goofy orangutan slave trader was the best part of
the bunch.

The plot was actually boring, and the long-promised "planet of apes"
managed to seem smaller than the original, despite costing about 20
times as much.

Some goofy ass lines meant to reference the original came perilously
close to derailing the entire damn film. The original walked the
line between satire and silly - this thing tripped over it again and
again.

The desert battle was poorly shot (Burton never could do action
sequences), some sort of sense of place tends to help, rather than a
mishmash of closeups. This shortcoming aside, Burton's influence was
nearly non existent here. Didn't seem like a "Tim Burton film"
(nightime ape city notwithstanding.

Ending was not only silly, but it didn't make the slightest bit of
sense (see below).

Fun observations with spoilers

-

-

-

"Bow your head" - guys in here were touting it as some kind of great
tag line - it was an intro to monkeys saying grace at dinner! Haw.

How come a trained chimp can land a pod no problem, but Leo crashes
TWO pods?

The planet was uninhabited when the Oberon crashed (again, human
pilots are for shit in this film) - where'd the horses come from?

How'd Thade end up going to Earth and turning it into a monkey
planet? The fuel thing on the Oberon said "depleted" when they
cooked all those CGI chimps . . .

Biggest question - why do studios keep giving Tim Burton potential
franchises to run aground?

--- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:

> I must say too, if you don't like the script/movie, then get your

ass back

> to University and write a better script

Sorry, that's a terrible defense. I don't know how to cook, but I
know when I'm eating bad food . . .

.htmlIn a message dated 7/29/01 1:45:53 AM Central Daylight Time,
pjn1209@... writes:

Sorry, that's a terrible defense.  I don't know how to cook, but I
know when I'm eating bad food . . .

pjn1209,

I just have to tell ya, I like this line...it is a good one.<.html

--- In pota@y..., mlccougar@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 7/29/01 1:45:53 AM Central Daylight Time,
> pjn1209@e... writes:
>
>
> > Sorry, that's a terrible defense. I don't know how to cook, but

I

> > know when I'm eating bad food . . .
> >
> >
> pjn1209,
>
> I just have to tell ya, I like this line...it is a good one.

I usually use it when people are defending Kevin Smith, but hey, it
works where it works.

Well, what can I say, except, at least it didn't stink. Though some of
the dialogue had a bit of a pong to it, and left a bad taste in my mouth.
Though it may have been the Freon from my leaky auto A/C, but no. So on my
second attempt to see it after a trip to the garage, just after a side trip
to the tire shop (had a flat on my first attempt to go to the movie), I
manage to make the last bargain matinee before the crowds of the evening in
not too good of a mood. No line yet but it was packed. The line for the
next show was huge.

Of course as most of you know my expectations weren't very high to begin
with. But though I liked it, it had more problems than my car did. It was
good, but not great, which is what's expected of something called Planet of
the Ape. The original had it's share of self-conscious laughs, but as with
most things, Burton went over the top.

I have to say it is the best movie I've seen this summer, for it is, in
truth, the only one. The plots points were a bit predictable, but it could
have been worse. What really got in the way was all the bad dialogue, bits
of 'omage to the original, and the flying monkeys. I could swear I could
hear the compressed air catapult on one leap. Too much Crouching Ape and
Flying Monkey, combined with Gorilliator. It had it's moments though and
some fine performances. Whalberg's wasn't one of them, though not entirely
his fault, considering the way his character was written. He didn't really
care about anyone or anything, except finding his chimp, and finding a way
home. As for the Gorillas, well, maybe apes can talk but chose not to. It's
hard to be scary with a lisp from those over sized canine teeth. It's
Halloween fangs all over again. ADR is there for a reason Mr. Burton. Use
it! I don't think Heston need to wear his. He was supposed to be really
old. So that worked. And he could enunciate for his big speech.

Roth's Thade is thoroughly evil, but he has sort of a soft spot for his
father, and Ari, so he can't be all bad, but he tries. Helena
Bonham-Carter's Ari is a breath of fresh air, however her lines about human
rights are ham-handedly written. I like a bit of message in my movie but you
don't have to club me over the head. And sure she's a cute little monkey
face, eyebrows and all, but needs a better hair style. Despite what Lisa
Marie said, Ari was the one having the bad hair day.

The so called love triangle was no more than flirtations, most of which are
on Ari's part, which are mostly bushed off by Leo, and it fizzles into a
psychic cat fight with Daena for his time . . . which he has none, for
anyone. Just another facet of his multiple shades of beige and gray
performance. And Air Farce? They sould have made him an ex-Navy SEAL
aviator/astronaut, like the first commander of the International Space
Station was. Let him train the resistance in Gorilla Warfare and kick monkey
ass all over the place!

It's not just his, "Sorry girls, but if I find a ship that works, it's a
quick peck and I am Audi 3950 something!", attitude. The whole thing happens
in like, a weekend. "I'll be over for dinner on Friday. I'll change your
world by Sunday, but I have to be back on Earth by Monday." And it feels
more rushed than a guided tour. "Welcome to the Planet of the Apes. On your
left you see the Hunt. We'll be stopping in Ape City for dinner before a
quick trip out to the Forbidden Zone on our way to the final conflict. Watch
your step on that surprise ending . . ." Which was about a predictable as
the rest of it, for anyone who has read the book, and knew about the
Washington, DC shoot. I guess they had to get a national monument in that
ending somewhere, with plenty of sequel room.

And when the chimp's ship does show up, it had me saying to myself . . . Oh
there he is . . . I see the ships must drop out of the time stream by
weight! Station first, then Marky's ship after a thousand years or so, and
then Percales' a few days later.

I don't think it's so much Burton's comic book approach, as he is shackled
with a weak script and muzzled by Zanuck to keep a PG-13 rating with TOY
money to be had. There is sexual tension between the main characters, but it
was so thin you could cut it with a plastic picnic knife. It has violence,
but I don't think I saw one drop of blood. And this from a guy who nearly
decapitated his entire cast in his last film. Beneath had more blood in it,
and it was a G rated picture.

Like I've said from the beginning, the only one who got what he wanted was
Dick "Skelletor" Zanuck! I saw him again last night, on Behind the POTA on
AMC, talking about how the messages in the first film went right over his
head. Not only did he not get it, he didn't pick up on them at all. He just
thought it was an Action/Thriller. For the most part that's what the new one
is. You got what you wanted, Tiger. How does it taste?

I have to thank him though, for bringing me Apes, not once, but six times
now, when no other producer in Craptown would touch it. But the guy does
measure success by his bank balance. And after seeing Friday's box office, I
know I won't have to wait three decades for another one.

I'd see it again, though not right away. And I'd buy it, though I might
cut some of the crap out and make a short version. On the Ape scale, I give
this one a Beneath. It was on the Planet, and it did have that Apey feeling
from time to time. Though Ape City needed more natural light. The computer
mats of the landscapes on the planet were breathtaking. Visuals are Buton's
forte. But Ape City proper, had that sound stage feel to it.

Though it was not what I'd call a thinking man's movie, it did at least have
the same messages as Conquest & Battle. Lets hope they get better and not
worse. It could happen. Empire was better than Star Wars. Too bad about
the Ewok Factor in the last two. They need to spend some of that money
they're making . . . On writers! The casting was good on the whole, but I
guess we're stuck with Wahlberg.

And if they start to flop? I'll make my NC-17 version, and pull no
punches!!!
Ape Lincoln indeed.

Attachments :

And my ending would have been more surprising too.

In a message dated 7/29/01 12:27:32 AM Central Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

<< Yeah, that was a surprise, even though it was in the end credits. They
shoulda mentioned Arthur. >>

And don't forget Marice Evans!
He's dead too!

<< all the gorillas seemed to be doing impressions of Worf from Star Trek).

>>

Oh yeah, I forgot that one. You're right!
They should have put him in there.
Not that anyone would have noticed.

In a message dated 7/29/01 1:15:29 AM, williejoe@... writes:

<< P.S. Here's how I wish the movie would've ended:


For Arthur and Roddy and in memory of Paul Trachtenberg >>

Who is Paul Trachtenberg?

Matt

.htmlIn a message dated 7/29/01 2:41:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
pjn1209@... writes:

> 25 million in one day!!

I know how you feel, Alex.  That's about the only nice thing I could
think of to say about the film as well.  And I was jazzed to see it.
Wanted to like it.

Coolest part of the film?  The trailer for "Ghost World".

Second coolest - using the original font for the opening credits, and
ANIMATING it.  Loved that.

After that, shit went downhill fast.  Oof. Where to begin . . .

Phil,

Your comments are dead on.  The premise can get so silly so quickly.  The
sequels fell into that far too often.  The fact that the original managed not
to (expect for "Human see, human do" stuff) now seems remarkable -- and that
it's stood the test of time.

The main titles for the new one were cool, though.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 7/29/01 8:28:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, MTotsky@...
writes:

In a message dated 7/29/01 1:15:29 AM, williejoe@... writes:

<<  P.S. Here's how I wish the movie would've ended:


For Arthur and Roddy and in memory of Paul Trachtenberg >>

Who is Paul Trachtenberg?

Matt

He was a set dresser on the ape city set who fell to his death working up
high.  It happened last September, I think.

Oddly, I've just read in Russo's book that when they built the ape city for
the original, someone fell through one of the buildings roofs.

-- Rory<.html

.html <.html

Paul Trachtenberg was a set painter on the film who died working on the
movie. - - - - - Jeff K.

----- Original Message -----
From: <MTotsky@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 5:27 AM
Subject: Re: [pota] Been there, done that (No spoilers)


>
> In a message dated 7/29/01 1:15:29 AM, williejoe@... writes:
>
> << P.S. Here's how I wish the movie would've ended:
>
>
> For Arthur and Roddy and in memory of Paul Trachtenberg >>
>
> Who is Paul Trachtenberg?
>
> Matt
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

No, no. We don't need to get carried away. Arthur should have been mentioned
to offset the Zanuck factor. To remind people there would be no "Planet of
the Apes" to make swiss cheese out of without him. They mentioned Boulle,
Serling and Wilson, cameos by Heston and Harrison, they shoulda mentioned
Arthur.

----- Original Message -----
From: <LordTZer0@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 2:21 AM
Subject: Re: [pota] Been there, done that (No spoilers)


> In a message dated 7/29/01 12:27:32 AM Central Daylight Time,
> williejoe@... writes:
>
> << Yeah, that was a surprise, even though it was in the end credits.
They
> shoulda mentioned Arthur. >>
>
> And don't forget Marice Evans!
> He's dead too!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.htmlOk, there will be an APES chat in the AOL chatrooms on Monday night @ 7:30 /
8:30 eastern time It will be a "private chat" so look for it in the "private
chats". The name of the room will of course be Planet of the Apes, so type
that in when you need to, and it will bring you to the room.<.html

We Run Background and Asset Searches

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To be removed from further mailings send an email from the
address you want removed to mailto:bakker12@...?subject=Remove

Well, although I hated it, I'm glad for the sake of all things POTA that it
looks like the new movie will break the all-time non-holiday opening record
in grosses. (Alex will be in heaven.) I look upon this as something of a
further tribute to how well-loved the old films are.

This will probably insure a sequel and, hopefully, renewed interest in the
original and it's sequels....

but I was still VERY disappointed from a critical sense with this film.
Perhaps, just perhaps the next one will be better, but I'm not about to hold
my breath.

-- Rory

I agree with you 100%, Rory. This is a testement to "Apes" and maybe to
Burton, not to this movie. If it has "legs" than we can say Burton found the
pulse but I think it will do just well enough to warrant a sequel (like
"Tomb Raider") and then Fox will have to do a better job on the next one,
like it sounds like George Lucas is doing.

- -
- - Jeff K.

----- Original Message -----
From: <Haristas@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 1:52 PM
Subject: [pota] $70 Million for Burton's POTA


> Well, although I hated it, I'm glad for the sake of all things POTA that
it
> looks like the new movie will break the all-time non-holiday opening
record
> in grosses. (Alex will be in heaven.) I look upon this as something of a
> further tribute to how well-loved the old films are.
>
> This will probably insure a sequel and, hopefully, renewed interest in the
> original and it's sequels....
>
> but I was still VERY disappointed from a critical sense with this film.
> Perhaps, just perhaps the next one will be better, but I'm not about to
hold
> my breath.
>
> -- Rory
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

This is the one scean that I really didn't like . It buged me .I
felt that Burton was making a mockery of Taylor .

I didn't really know what to expect from the movie . I'm glade it's
doing well . Means a lot more POTA stuff will be comming out .

It felt more like a kiddie movie at some points . I kind of wished
that it was a littel more darker .Reminded me of Bettel Juice more
then any thing else .Just they way the jokes were made and every
thing .

I loved the ending . It was so much like the origonal book .Not
competly.But all and all . It was a shocker . I didn't think Burton
would go for that ending . The first time they made the movie they
didn't wan't to go that directioin .
If you havn't read the origonal book .I guess it dosn't make sense .

Are the actors in this film going to be in the seual ? I know Mark
Walberg is gered up for a sequal .But how would they do that ?That
was the only confusing part for me . If they did a sequal and if they
wanted the other cast members in it .

I agree, they toned it down a bit to get the PG. But the original was G and
it was more disturbing. I guess we give kids less credit these days.

I thought the Heston scene was poorly written and he just walked through
(or layed through) his part. But since the movie 's not perfect anyway, I'm
glad he was in it. It was actually one of the highlights for me.

I've heard the entire cast is obligated but only if Burton directs the
sequal. Given the "Back to the Future" storyline, they could probably bring
back anybody they want.

- -
- - Jeff K.

----- Original Message -----
From: <CrystalRoses16@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 2:44 PM
Subject: [pota] Heston's scean, and the movie in general * Spoliers *


> This is the one scean that I really didn't like . It buged me .I
> felt that Burton was making a mockery of Taylor .
>
> I didn't really know what to expect from the movie . I'm glade it's
> doing well . Means a lot more POTA stuff will be comming out .
>
> It felt more like a kiddie movie at some points . I kind of wished
> that it was a littel more darker .Reminded me of Bettel Juice more
> then any thing else .Just they way the jokes were made and every
> thing .
>
> I loved the ending . It was so much like the origonal book .Not
> competly.But all and all . It was a shocker . I didn't think Burton
> would go for that ending . The first time they made the movie they
> didn't wan't to go that directioin .
> If you havn't read the origonal book .I guess it dosn't make sense .
>
> Are the actors in this film going to be in the seual ? I know Mark
> Walberg is gered up for a sequal .But how would they do that ?That
> was the only confusing part for me . If they did a sequal and if they
> wanted the other cast members in it .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html <.html

Okay that makes since . So weres Doc Brown when you need him?

--- In pota@y..., "Jack Krueger" <williejoe@e...> wrote:
> I agree, they toned it down a bit to get the PG. But the original
was G and
> it was more disturbing. I guess we give kids less credit these days.
>
> I thought the Heston scene was poorly written and he just walked
through
> (or layed through) his part. But since the movie 's not perfect
anyway, I'm
> glad he was in it. It was actually one of the highlights for me.
>
> I've heard the entire cast is obligated but only if Burton directs
the
> sequal. Given the "Back to the Future" storyline, they could
probably bring
> back anybody they want.
>
>
- -
> - - Jeff K.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <CrystalRoses16@a...>
> To: <pota@y...>
> Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 2:44 PM
> Subject: [pota] Heston's scean, and the movie in general * Spoliers
*
>
>
> > This is the one scean that I really didn't like . It buged me .I
> > felt that Burton was making a mockery of Taylor .
> >
> > I didn't really know what to expect from the movie . I'm glade
it's
> > doing well . Means a lot more POTA stuff will be comming out .
> >
> > It felt more like a kiddie movie at some points . I kind of
wished
> > that it was a littel more darker .Reminded me of Bettel Juice more
> > then any thing else .Just they way the jokes were made and every
> > thing .
> >
> > I loved the ending . It was so much like the origonal book .Not
> > competly.But all and all . It was a shocker . I didn't think
Burton
> > would go for that ending . The first time they made the movie they
> > didn't wan't to go that directioin .
> > If you havn't read the origonal book .I guess it dosn't make
sense .
> >
> > Are the actors in this film going to be in the seual ? I know
Mark
> > Walberg is gered up for a sequal .But how would they do that ?That
> > was the only confusing part for me . If they did a sequal and if
they
> > wanted the other cast members in it .
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >

--- In pota@y..., "Alexander Ruiz" <prophecysite@h...> wrote:

> I loved it from start to finish!
> The only down side: Ari's makeup should have been made more

realistic. And doing so, the part could still have been pulled off.
(done very well)

>
> As for the high side: While Micheal Clarke Duncan was great!
> TIME ROTH "IS" PLANET OF THE APES!
> His performace TOTALY BLEW ME AWAY!
> I've never seen anything like it!
>
> GIVE THAT MAN THE OSCAR! (no B.S.!)
> INCREDIBLE performance!
>
> Best gang,
> Alex

Okay you saw it . Yah Tim Roth was my favoriet in the movie . Him
and Duncan .

In a message dated 07/29/2001 5:39:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

<< I agree with you 100%, Rory. This is a testement to "Apes" and maybe to
Burton, not to this movie. If it has "legs" than we can say Burton found the
pulse but I think it will do just well enough to warrant a sequel (like
"Tomb Raider") and then Fox will have to do a better job on the next one,
like it sounds like George Lucas is doing.

- -
- - Jeff K. >>

This weekend we can all be proud for the memory of Arthur Jacobs and the APES
films he made, but next weekend's grosses will say what the public really
thinks of this new movie.

-- Rory

In a message dated 07/29/2001 5:53:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

<< I agree, they toned it down a bit to get the PG. But the original was G and
it was more disturbing. I guess we give kids less credit these days. >>

Well, maybe the DVD will be "the director's cut" or at least have deleted
scenes.
Boy! Next to watching "Battle" again I can't wait for that!!

-- Rory

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 07/29/2001 5:53:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> williejoe@e... writes:
>
> << I agree, they toned it down a bit to get the PG. But the

original was G and

> it was more disturbing. I guess we give kids less credit these

days. >>

>
> Well, maybe the DVD will be "the director's cut" or at least have

deleted

> scenes.
> Boy! Next to watching "Battle" again I can't wait for that!!
>
> -- Rory

Yah the DVD will be cool .