The service went off without a hitch yesterday. It was a sad occasion, but
to me very energizing because of the man's accomplishments and because the
faces were basically the same as at his 75th birthday in '97. He had been
honored while he was alive and that felt good. It was noted that no public
announcement had been made yet, that's why there's been silence so far.
Various people spoke for John's work in both Hollywood and for the CIA (the
latter being something John was particularly proud of, as he should be - - -
it was made clear he saved lives). Among the speakers were Brian Penikas,
Natalie Trundy, Scott Essman and Bill Blake. Eric Greene was there, as well
as Rick Baker and many of the makeup artists seen on the 75th Birthday tape.
Oh, and Roddy's sister was there and spoke as well. It was a low key affair,
as it was meant to be.

-
- - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: <LordTZer0@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 1:38 AM
Subject: [pota] fest pics


>
> Here's some of the pics from Memphis.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.htmlClick here: Ain't It Cool News - View Article

Here's some mention of the passing of John Chambers.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 8/31/01 2:39:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

 The service went off without a hitch yesterday. It was a sad occasion, but
to me very energizing because of the man's accomplishments and because the
faces were basically the same as at his 75th birthday in '97. He had been
honored while he was alive and that felt good. It was noted that no public
announcement had been made yet, that's why there's been silence so far.
Various people spoke for John's work in both Hollywood and for the CIA (the
latter being something John was particularly proud of, as he should be - - -
it was made clear he saved lives). Among the speakers were Brian Penikas,
Natalie Trundy, Scott Essman and Bill Blake. Eric Greene was there, as well
as Rick Baker and many of the makeup artists seen on the 75th Birthday tape.
Oh, and Roddy's sister was there and spoke as well. It was a low key affair,
as it was meant to be.

                                                                         -
- - - Jeff

Very good and very nice.  Thanks for the news, Jeff

-- Rory<.html

In a message dated 8/31/01 1:41:36 PM Central Daylight Time, Haristas@...
writes:

<< POTA was #9 on Wednesday, T! I just don't want to go see it again --
I'd
rather wait for the DVD. Fox will get more money from me then. >>

Blast the grid! Either it moved up in two days or that's the last time I get
my numbers from them.

A note from writer Ron Magid


August 28, 2001

Hi Brian,

I was saddened to learn of the passing of the great John Chambers. Back
in October of last year, I was commissioned by Total Movie magazine to
select the top ten effects films of the pre-digital era. Naturally,
Planet of the Apes was at the top of my list, along with 2001: A Space
Odyssey, Rob Bottin's The Thing and Rick Baker's American Werewolf in
London.

Mr. Chambers was one of the last people I contacted for the article ? it
was just too daunting at first. I mean, this man was "responsible" for
inspiring me to turn all of my high school pals into Apes ? which
eventually made me an ideal candidate to write about makeup and special
effects. You could say John Chambers made me who I am today ? for better
or worse.

I screwed up my courage and eventually contacted Mr. Chambers through the
Motion Picture Televison Fund (home). We arranged a time in early November,
2000,
and with tape recorder and friend Eric Greene in tow, I braced myself to
meet the great man. I was at first taken aback to find him in a
wheelchair as a result of a stroke which left him partially paralyzed on
his left side, but his humor and enthusiasm were undiminished. After
insisting that we call him John, we spent the next several hours roaring
with laughter as the makeup maestro regaled us with stories of his glory
days at 20th Century Fox. Despite his physical afflictions, he had lost
none of his edge - or his humor - his eyes twinkled as he spoke. Then
John began telling us about how he first came to be involved with the
film that would change his life ? and ours - Planet of the Apes.

Listening to John, I was struck by the many ways he literally reinvented
the art of movie makeup with Apes
? and showed that it could be done convincingly on a mass scale. John
developed new materials, including foam latex and matte adhesive, and
groundbreaking techniques, such as pre-painting makeup appliances, all of
which are still employed today. And John Chambers' beautifully stylized
ape makeups enabled actors Roddy McDowall, Kim Hunter, and Maurice Evans
to not only communicate everything they’re thinking and feeling, but also
allowed them to remain recognizable beneath their simian features.

That was a magic afternoon, one of the greatest I've enjoyed in a career
filled with many great meetings with the remarkable men who created the
cinema's most fantastic images. I hope the following will enable you and
our fellow Apes enthusiasts to experience some of the excitement - and
genuine Irish blarney - of hearing John Chambers speak about his work.

Sincerely,

Ron Magid


JOHN CHAMBERS: I went to work for [makeup department head] Ben Nye in the
laboratory at 20th Century Fox. I wasn't hired for Apes, but when Ben
heard the first ideas, he said, “God! This is going to be a big
picture.” I said, “Well, how much is the makeup going to cost?”
“Anywhere from $50,000 to $100,000!” To him, that was a big picture. Here
we had to make all kinds of apes! So I said, “You think it’s going to
only cost that? It’s going to cost an awful lot more.” Ben called another
guy over, “Listen to what he’s saying! He’s going to find out how cheap
we can make ‘em!” I mean, we spent over a million dollars! It wasn’t just
the creation of the makeup, but the techniques, and the numbers of
people.

After a few months, Ben said, “You’re starting to go into this now,
heavy. It’ll be huge. I’m quittin’!” He thought it would give him a
stroke, so he left. Even though he didn’t work on the film, I demanded
that he got credit.

I wanted some apes to study, but I couldn’t get any. I wasn’t there long
enough to know who I could bypass and go to, but when I told [art
director] Bill Creber, “I need a few monkeys in here,” he brought me real
chimps! Then [I worked my designs out by] making models over actors' face
casts. I tried to make the early makeups more like the animals, but “no
go.” We didn't delve into too many creatures. At first, we did gorillas,
then chimps, and so on, and it worried the producer, Arthur P. Jacobs,
and his assistant, Mort Abrams, who I called “Frick ‘n Frack”! It was
always a lost cause getting any idea, right or not, from them. They
wanted certain things, and I’d give them certain things, but it wasn't
the way they really wanted it. It was a “Frick ‘n Frack” situation!

I just didn’t want audiences to laugh at me, and my contention was since
we were making speaking apes, that’s an evolutionary step, so I could
take the transformation a bit further and show them going towards the
human. I tried to keep close to the actor's face. I tried to make
characters out of them, exaggerating certain areas but still keeping most
of their looks by really bringing it back to their face. Well, I think
Apes has had a lot of wear, but people like it. It’s like cowboy movies.
They don’t grow old. It’s still going - until the next one comes out.

After Planet opened, I got a call from Jacobs that Stanley Kubrick wanted
to know who stole his apes!? I told Jacobs, “You know, his film? I would
be embarrassed to have anything I did in it! Tell him, 'Kiss my Irish…!'”

In a message dated 9:42:06 Central Daylight Time, prophecysite@...
writes:

<< http://embark.to/UnofficialPlanetoftheApes

>>

Nice, actually. ;)

-Joe.

Yeah me too.

Many thanks to the author and welcome to the group.

Good to see some new blood and new opinions.

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: danpiercy@... [danpiercy@...]
Sent: Saturday, 1 September 2001 2:11
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [pota] Re: Battle for the POTA (part 3)

I really enjoyed this essay!

I too thought it was a tear of sadness because the ape was pulling the
little girl's hair and that was indicative of what may lay ahead.

Michael Whitty
25 Hilder Street
Weston ACT 2611
AUSTRALIA

-----Original Message-----
From: Jack Krueger [williejoe@...]
Sent: Saturday, 1 September 2001 3:18
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [pota] Battle for the POTA (part 3)

I've always assumed the end of "Battle" is a tear of sorrow because the
other movies end downbeat. I don't think a statue would bother with a tear
of joy. But the Lawgiver is more benevolent than in "Planet" and "Beneath".
Is he like Darth Vader and will turn to the dark side? Wasn't there a comic
book that dealt with the Lawgiver? Or is the John Huston Lawgiver just one
of many? - - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Melkor" <melkor@...>
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 4:57 PM
Subject: Re: [pota] Battle for the POTA (part 3)


> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> X-Mailer: CommuniGate Pro Web Mailer v.3.2
> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 16:53:01 -0700
> Message-ID: <web-8602622@...>
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>
> >Well, that was a pretty good, in fact a VERY good, argument for the worth
of
> >BATTLE FOR THE PLANET OF THE APES. I can't argue with much of it because
> >you've spent a whole lot more time thinking about the movie than I've
been
> >willing to.
>
> It is simply a case of liking the POTA movies so much that I've watched
> them all over and over and over. And when you see a movie for the 10th
> or 12th time you notice things about it that you probably missed the 2nd
> or 3rd time. You notice more things with each repeat viewing.
>
>
> >One thing I don't believe you commented on is why the statue weeps at the
> >end. What's your explination of that? I have to go along with Eric
Greene's
> >ideas on that one.
>
> It is a single tear and it turns out that is a complicated question
because
> you can actually have three questions. (1) What is causing this? (2) Is
> this a tear of joy or sorrow? (3) What was the writer's intention? Eric
> Greene kind of implies that the statue was crying because Caesar's
> supernatural spirit was showing his emotion through the statue, and I
guess
> that would fit in with my description of Caesar as a Christ like figure.
> But I have a different explanation that makes better sense. BATTLE is
> not the first movie where we saw a tear come from a statue. It happened
> in BENEATH also, when we saw an illusion created by the mutants of a
> Lawgiver statue crying a tear of blood. The mutants could perceive events
> and create illusions over large distances. They did basically the exact
> same thing in BENEATH, so they could easily have created this illusion
> in BATTLE. I.e, The mutants, the possessors of the alpha-omega bomb, had
> also developed a respect for Caesar by that time.
>
> Was this a tear of joy or sorrow? Eric Greene says this is ambiguous
> in the film but I think it is a tear of joy because there is overwelming
> evidence in the film that the altered timeline was a radical improvment
> over the original timeline.
>
> At the end of BATTLE there are surely still individual prejudices, and
> there is still no ironclad guarantee that the alpha-omega bomb will
> never be used. But there is also little doubt of a monumental
improvement,
> because in the first timeline the apes' prejudice against humans was
> permanently ingrained in the culture and religious dogma. No one except
> Dr. Zaius and probably a few others knew what the humans had done, and
> their view of humananity as the "Devil's pawn", came from the sacred
scrolls
> written by the lawgiver. To contradict the sacred scrolls and its
> view of humans as pawns of the devil was literally a state crime.
>
> The writers of the script, the Corringtons, meant to show an unambiguous
> improvement in the timeline. The scene with the statue shedding a tear
> was tacked on by the director in a failed attempt at creating some
> ambiguity, but it simply didn't fit work because the rest of the film
> was entirely (and intentionally) unambiguious. The effect, unfortunately,
> was merely to obscure the message the writers intended to convey in the
film.
> In order to introduce real ambiguity into the movie the director as
> a minimum would have had to rip out the Lawgiver character altogether.
> When I read the Marvel adaptation of BATTLE I realized that the
Corringtons
> created an excellent script, but it was butchered in a lot of ways by
> the director.
>
> In my view Eric Greene has the most interesting of all the POTA books, but
> the sheer amount of information in it means it is likely that he makes
> occasional mistakes. Sometimes he gets things wrong, sometimes he gets
> things only partly right, sometimes he gets only part of the picture, and
> sometimes he goes too far. The fact that he's not perfect doesn't stop me
> from thinking his book on the whole is pretty good. And if I had only one
> POTA book I would want to have his book.
>
>
>
> >Also, doesn't it bother you while watching BATTLE that the apes are
wearing
> >the same outfits they wear in PLANET and BENEATH? In 2000 years the
apes
> >never change their style of clothing?
>
> Not exactly. The apes in BATTLE didn't have the (status?) markings on
their
> suits that they did in the first two movies. Maybe the apes had some
> conservative quirk when it came to fashion? I have to admit this didn't
> make a lot of sense, but still I liked the fact that the gorillas and the
> other apes in BATTLE wore the same outfits from the first two movies
because
> I like those outfits.
>
> But when you are criticizing these movies you also have to recognize that
> the first movie had its share of problems like the rest. Why did all the
> apes in PLANET wear the same racial sets of clothes? How could a
civilization
> with such primitive houses manufacture rifles and do brain surgery? How
> come their dialect of English didn't change after 2000 years? I don't
> think any of us would even recognize 2000 year old English, it would still
> be a foreign language. e.g. If they went through periods of primitive
> barbarism how come they still have the same 2000 year old word for "gun".
> But these issues probably don't affect your enjoyment of the movie.
>
> As for the budget on BATTLE, correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't it close
> to the budget for CONQUEST, $1.5 billion vs. $1.8 billion?
>
>
> >Another reason why I tend to dislike the sequels is because they do
change
> >the world as it's presented in PLANET. BENEATH altered the ape society
> >right away. In the first film there was no gorilla army. Just as in the
> >Boulle book, the apes only had a police force, that also had 'hunt
clubs.'
> >I like that. If you think about it, why would the apes need an army?
It's
> >sort of silly. And, yes, what happens in ESCAPE changes the future so
that
> >you wouldn't get to where you were in PLANET. The APES saga isn't a
cycle
> >as some say, but open ended. But, for me, I find pondering the past as
it
> >was alluded to in PLANET much more interesting that than the future as
it's
> >altered by ESCAPE.
>
> I can understand why you like PLANET the most. It's a great movie, both
> the story line and the satire.
>
>
> >One of the many things I wish Fox had done instead of the lousy thing
they
> >gave us this year, would be to have done a prequel to PLANET, forgetting
all
> >the sequels of the past. Remember Cornelius mentioning 'carnivorous
> >gorillas' in the cave? Man, what things must have happened during those
2000
> >years before PLANET.
>
> An anthology series set in the POTA movie universe might be pretty cool.
> Prequels to both PLANET and CONQUEST would be interesting. The down side
> is that you also run the risk of screwing up the Apes movie universe with
> crap.
>
> -Tom
>

Agreed that Fox is dense - how long did it take to get this movie conceived
then made?

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: LordTZer0@... [LordTZer0@...]
Sent: Saturday, 1 September 2001 3:58
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [pota] Battle for the Box-Office!


POTA still in the top ten, at # 10. And at 6th for the year, which is not
too shabby. Just 10.8 Mil behind # 5 JPIII. This is the last big weekend
of
the Summer season. Let's pull the teeth on that monster. If you've even
considered seeing POTA again, this is the weekend to do it! If the sequel
doesn't happen, it may be the last time you ever as a POTA movie on the big
screen. Let's face it, Fox is dense. Show them a clear message that Apes
can be a big draw. Okay that's all the pep talk I'm going to give a
mediocre
big budget B blockbuster. But I'm still going again anyway.

To: pota@yahoogroups.com
X-Mailer: CommuniGate Pro Web Mailer v.3.2
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 15:39:53 -0700
Message-ID: <web-8612312@...>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

> Paul Dehn was the sole writer on "Conquest" and was good friends with
>Arthur Jacobs (staying at his house when he was in L.A. to write the
>scripts) so I'm sure he made his intentions known to Jacobs. There were a
>lot of changes made on "Conquest" that I don't think have been fully
>addressed in interviews. - - - - Jeff

Jacobs was not the director of CONQUEST. J. Lee Thompson was the director,
and he probably didn't think it mattered that Aldo was supposed to be a
gorilla instead of a chimp. I doubt that Paul Dehn (or Jacobs) even knew.
I agree that there were a lot of changes made in CONQUEST, even more in
BATTLE.

> I think Aldo was made a gorilla in "Conquest" after the fact. Both the
>comic and the novelization were done after "Battle" was produced and Aldo
>was established as a gorilla in "Battle".

Aldo was definitely supposed to be a gorilla in CONQUEST, not a chimp. The
script came before the film, and both the book and the Marvel adaptation
were based on the script, common in the days before VCRs. Marvel says that
their adaptations were "nearly verbatim" from the scripts. Here is a quote,
including emphasis, from the Marvel magazine [#27, p.23] explaining
all this.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
All of the Apes adaptations done for this magazine were done from the SHOOTING
SCRIPTS. For those unfamilar with the term, it refers to the script as it
stands at the time principal photography is begun on a film. In most cases
changes are made by the time the film is complete, both by the director
or actors while the film is being shot and in the editing room where the
film is put together...neither Doug Moench nor anyone at Marvel Comics made
those changes...What you have been reading is a nearly verbatim adaptation
of the SHOOTING SCRIPT provided by Fox...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>I think it was intentional that
>Aldo is beaten up and silenced in "Conquest" as a sly way of playing with
>the history as established in "Escape" (for those who picked up on it. I'm
>not sure why they decided to make Aldo a gorilla in "Battle".

Yes, Aldo's character in both CONQUEST and BATTLE was meant to build upon
his history in the earlier movies. Aldo makes sense as a gorilla in
BATTLE because he was a military leader, and when the Corringtons wrote the
script for BATTLE they didn't even realize that he had been turned from a
gorilla into a chimp in CONQUEST. It's a shame that Aldo's character was
messed up by Thompson in CONQUEST, because it would have provided great
insight into his background in BATTLE and why Caesar put up with him for
so long. Marvel (#17 p.26) describes Aldo in CONQUEST as "Caesar's
accomplice in revolt, a battered messenger Gorilla".

-Tom

The old fallback on this is that Aldo could be a common name, just as with
all the Zauises (the TV Zauis is NEVER referred to as DR. Zauis, to the
writers' credit. Chimp Aldo and Gorilla Aldo are different characters. Both
play off what Cornelius says in "Escape". Instead of being the apes who
first say"No!", chimp Aldo gets sedated and gorilla Aldo is the first ape to
be told "No!" to, after the rebellion. I don't know what the significance is
of Lisa becoming the first ape to say "No" but I think it's obvious in
"Conquest" the "Apes" take over sooner than it's told in Cornelius' histort.
Not exactly circular.


- - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Melkor" <melkor@...>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: [pota] Aldo in CONQUEST


> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> X-Mailer: CommuniGate Pro Web Mailer v.3.2
> Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 15:39:53 -0700
> Message-ID: <web-8612312@...>
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>
> > Paul Dehn was the sole writer on "Conquest" and was good friends with
> >Arthur Jacobs (staying at his house when he was in L.A. to write the
> >scripts) so I'm sure he made his intentions known to Jacobs. There were a
> >lot of changes made on "Conquest" that I don't think have been fully
> >addressed in interviews. - - - - Jeff
>
> Jacobs was not the director of CONQUEST. J. Lee Thompson was the director,
> and he probably didn't think it mattered that Aldo was supposed to be a
> gorilla instead of a chimp. I doubt that Paul Dehn (or Jacobs) even knew.
> I agree that there were a lot of changes made in CONQUEST, even more in
> BATTLE.
>
>
> > I think Aldo was made a gorilla in "Conquest" after the fact. Both the
> >comic and the novelization were done after "Battle" was produced and Aldo
> >was established as a gorilla in "Battle".
>
> Aldo was definitely supposed to be a gorilla in CONQUEST, not a chimp.
The
> script came before the film, and both the book and the Marvel adaptation
> were based on the script, common in the days before VCRs. Marvel says that
> their adaptations were "nearly verbatim" from the scripts. Here is a
quote,
> including emphasis, from the Marvel magazine [#27, p.23] explaining
> all this.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> All of the Apes adaptations done for this magazine were done from the
SHOOTING
> SCRIPTS. For those unfamilar with the term, it refers to the script as it
> stands at the time principal photography is begun on a film. In most
cases
> changes are made by the time the film is complete, both by the director
> or actors while the film is being shot and in the editing room where the
> film is put together...neither Doug Moench nor anyone at Marvel Comics
made
> those changes...What you have been reading is a nearly verbatim adaptation
> of the SHOOTING SCRIPT provided by Fox...
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
>
>
> >I think it was intentional that
> >Aldo is beaten up and silenced in "Conquest" as a sly way of playing with
> >the history as established in "Escape" (for those who picked up on it.
I'm
> >not sure why they decided to make Aldo a gorilla in "Battle".
>
> Yes, Aldo's character in both CONQUEST and BATTLE was meant to build upon
> his history in the earlier movies. Aldo makes sense as a gorilla in
> BATTLE because he was a military leader, and when the Corringtons wrote
the
> script for BATTLE they didn't even realize that he had been turned from a
> gorilla into a chimp in CONQUEST. It's a shame that Aldo's character was
> messed up by Thompson in CONQUEST, because it would have provided great
> insight into his background in BATTLE and why Caesar put up with him for
> so long. Marvel (#17 p.26) describes Aldo in CONQUEST as "Caesar's
> accomplice in revolt, a battered messenger Gorilla".
>
> -Tom
>
>
>

Good stuff, I'd like to read the whole interview. I wonder when "Starlog"
interviewed John? Their interview with Natalie was this year so I don't
think they do them too far in the past.


- - - Jeff K.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian" <apeman@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 1:12 PM
Subject: [pota] Magid's final Chambers interview...


> A note from writer Ron Magid
>
>
> August 28, 2001
>
> Hi Brian,
>
> I was saddened to learn of the passing of the great John Chambers. Back
> in October of last year, I was commissioned by Total Movie magazine to
> select the top ten effects films of the pre-digital era. Naturally,
> Planet of the Apes was at the top of my list, along with 2001: A Space
> Odyssey, Rob Bottin's The Thing and Rick Baker's American Werewolf in
> London.
>
> Mr. Chambers was one of the last people I contacted for the article ?
it
> was just too daunting at first. I mean, this man was "responsible" for
> inspiring me to turn all of my high school pals into Apes ? which
> eventually made me an ideal candidate to write about makeup and special
> effects. You could say John Chambers made me who I am today ? for
better
> or worse.
>
> I screwed up my courage and eventually contacted Mr. Chambers through
the
> Motion Picture Televison Fund (home). We arranged a time in early
November,
> 2000,
> and with tape recorder and friend Eric Greene in tow, I braced myself
to
> meet the great man. I was at first taken aback to find him in a
> wheelchair as a result of a stroke which left him partially paralyzed
on
> his left side, but his humor and enthusiasm were undiminished. After
> insisting that we call him John, we spent the next several hours
roaring
> with laughter as the makeup maestro regaled us with stories of his
glory
> days at 20th Century Fox. Despite his physical afflictions, he had lost
> none of his edge - or his humor - his eyes twinkled as he spoke. Then
> John began telling us about how he first came to be involved with the
> film that would change his life ? and ours - Planet of the Apes.
>
> Listening to John, I was struck by the many ways he literally
reinvented
> the art of movie makeup with Apes
> ? and showed that it could be done convincingly on a mass scale. John
> developed new materials, including foam latex and matte adhesive, and
> groundbreaking techniques, such as pre-painting makeup appliances, all
of
> which are still employed today. And John Chambers' beautifully stylized
> ape makeups enabled actors Roddy McDowall, Kim Hunter, and Maurice
Evans
> to not only communicate everything they're thinking and feeling, but
also
> allowed them to remain recognizable beneath their simian features.
>
> That was a magic afternoon, one of the greatest I've enjoyed in a
career
> filled with many great meetings with the remarkable men who created the
> cinema's most fantastic images. I hope the following will enable you
and
> our fellow Apes enthusiasts to experience some of the excitement - and
> genuine Irish blarney - of hearing John Chambers speak about his work.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Ron Magid
>
>
> JOHN CHAMBERS: I went to work for [makeup department head] Ben Nye in
the
> laboratory at 20th Century Fox. I wasn't hired for Apes, but when Ben
> heard the first ideas, he said, "God! This is going to be a big
> picture." I said, "Well, how much is the makeup going to cost?"
> "Anywhere from $50,000 to $100,000!" To him, that was a big picture.
Here
> we had to make all kinds of apes! So I said, "You think it's going to
> only cost that? It's going to cost an awful lot more." Ben called
another
> guy over, "Listen to what he's saying! He's going to find out how cheap
> we can make 'em!" I mean, we spent over a million dollars! It wasn't
just
> the creation of the makeup, but the techniques, and the numbers of
> people.
>
> After a few months, Ben said, "You're starting to go into this now,
> heavy. It'll be huge. I'm quittin'!" He thought it would give him a
> stroke, so he left. Even though he didn't work on the film, I demanded
> that he got credit.
>
> I wanted some apes to study, but I couldn't get any. I wasn't there
long
> enough to know who I could bypass and go to, but when I told [art
> director] Bill Creber, "I need a few monkeys in here," he brought me
real
> chimps! Then [I worked my designs out by] making models over actors'
face
> casts. I tried to make the early makeups more like the animals, but "no
> go." We didn't delve into too many creatures. At first, we did
gorillas,
> then chimps, and so on, and it worried the producer, Arthur P. Jacobs,
> and his assistant, Mort Abrams, who I called "Frick 'n Frack"! It was
> always a lost cause getting any idea, right or not, from them. They
> wanted certain things, and I'd give them certain things, but it wasn't
> the way they really wanted it. It was a "Frick 'n Frack" situation!
>
> I just didn't want audiences to laugh at me, and my contention was
since
> we were making speaking apes, that's an evolutionary step, so I could
> take the transformation a bit further and show them going towards the
> human. I tried to keep close to the actor's face. I tried to make
> characters out of them, exaggerating certain areas but still keeping
most
> of their looks by really bringing it back to their face. Well, I think
> Apes has had a lot of wear, but people like it. It's like cowboy
movies.
> They don't grow old. It's still going - until the next one comes out.
>
> After Planet opened, I got a call from Jacobs that Stanley Kubrick
wanted
> to know who stole his apes!? I told Jacobs, "You know, his film? I
would
> be embarrassed to have anything I did in it! Tell him, 'Kiss my
Irish.!'"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.htmlIn a message dated 8/31/01 7:06:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

The old fallback on this is that Aldo could be a common name, just as with
all the Zauises (the TV Zauis is NEVER referred to as DR. Zauis, to the
writers' credit. Chimp Aldo and Gorilla Aldo are different characters. Both
play off what Cornelius says in "Escape". Instead of being the apes who
first say"No!", chimp Aldo gets sedated and gorilla Aldo is the first ape to
be told "No!" to, after the rebellion. I don't know what the significance is
of Lisa becoming the first ape to say "No" but I think it's obvious in
"Conquest" the "Apes" take over sooner than it's told in Cornelius' histort.
Not exactly circular.

                                                                           
  - - - Jeff

Okay, can we now move on to some other character?  Enough of Aldo.  How about
Virgil?  How did he get so smart in such a short time?  And how cound
Mandemus have been his teacher when he was a child?

And another thing I'd like to say. . . inconsistencies from entry to entry
just go with the territory with film series.  Hell, look at the old
Frankenstein series.  And James Bond!  You think they bothered making sure
every Andy Hardy or Sherlock Holmes film followed to the letter what happened
before?  You can bet your Charlie Chan they didn't!!!  I think it's best not
to give the inconsistencies too much thought -- unless you've got nothing
better to do and love playing connect the dots.  But then that's your
insanity.

-- Rory<.html

.html <.html

.htmlIn a message dated 8/31/01 7:26:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
prophecysite@... writes:

I say put Zanuck back as head of Fox so he can fire half the damn staff,
especially their advertising department! :o)

Best,
Al



ZANUCK!!!  ZANUCK!!!!   Slowly I turn.  Step by step. . . .

-- Rory<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 4:23 PM

Subject: Re: [pota] Aldo in CONQUEST

In a message dated 8/31/01 7:06:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

The old fallback on this is that Aldo could be a common name, just as with
all the Zauises (the TV Zauis is NEVER referred to as DR. Zauis, to the
writers' credit. Chimp Aldo and Gorilla Aldo are different characters. Both
play off what Cornelius says in "Escape". Instead of being the apes who
first say"No!", chimp Aldo gets sedated and gorilla Aldo is the first ape to
be told "No!" to, after the rebellion. I don't know what the significance is
of Lisa becoming the first ape to say "No" but I think it's obvious in
"Conquest" the "Apes" take over sooner than it's told in Cornelius' histort.
Not exactly circular.

                                                                           
  - - - Jeff

Okay, can we now move on to some other character?  Enough of Aldo.  How about
Virgil?  How did he get so smart in such a short time?  And how cound
Mandemus have been his teacher when he was a child?

And another thing I'd like to say. . . inconsistencies from entry to entry
just go with the territory with film series.  Hell, look at the old
Frankenstein series.  And James Bond!  You think they bothered making sure
every Andy Hardy or Sherlock Holmes film followed to the letter what happened
before?  You can bet your Charlie Chan they didn't!!!  I think it's best not
to give the inconsistencies too much thought -- unless you've got nothing
better to do and love playing connect the dots.  But then that's your
insanity.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Jack Krueger

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 4:59 PM

Subject: Re: [pota] Aldo in CONQUEST

 How could Mandemus have been Virgil's teacher as a child? Because that armory had been his home for 27 years.

 

                                                                         - - - - Teacher

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 4:23 PM

Subject: Re: [pota] Aldo in CONQUEST

In a message dated 8/31/01 7:06:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

The old fallback on this is that Aldo could be a common name, just as with
all the Zauises (the TV Zauis is NEVER referred to as DR. Zauis, to the
writers' credit. Chimp Aldo and Gorilla Aldo are different characters. Both
play off what Cornelius says in "Escape". Instead of being the apes who
first say"No!", chimp Aldo gets sedated and gorilla Aldo is the first ape to
be told "No!" to, after the rebellion. I don't know what the significance is
of Lisa becoming the first ape to say "No" but I think it's obvious in
"Conquest" the "Apes" take over sooner than it's told in Cornelius' histort.
Not exactly circular.

                                                                           
  - - - Jeff

Okay, can we now move on to some other character?  Enough of Aldo.  How about
Virgil?  How did he get so smart in such a short time?  And how cound
Mandemus have been his teacher when he was a child?

And another thing I'd like to say. . . inconsistencies from entry to entry
just go with the territory with film series.  Hell, look at the old
Frankenstein series.  And James Bond!  You think they bothered making sure
every Andy Hardy or Sherlock Holmes film followed to the letter what happened
before?  You can bet your Charlie Chan they didn't!!!  I think it's best not
to give the inconsistencies too much thought -- unless you've got nothing
better to do and love playing connect the dots.  But then that's your
insanity.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

<.html

X-Mailer: CommuniGate Pro Web Mailer v.3.2
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 17:39:49 -0700
Message-ID: <web-8613031@...>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

> The old fallback on this is that Aldo could be a common name, just as with
>all the Zauises (the TV Zauis is NEVER referred to as DR. Zauis, to the
>writers' credit. Chimp Aldo and Gorilla Aldo are different characters. Both
>play off what Cornelius says in "Escape". Instead of being the apes who
>first say"No!", chimp Aldo gets sedated and gorilla Aldo is the first ape to
>be told "No!" to, after the rebellion. I don't know what the significance is
>of Lisa becoming the first ape to say "No" but I think it's obvious in
>"Conquest" the "Apes" take over sooner than it's told in Cornelius' histort.
>Not exactly circular.
>
>
> - - - Jeff

Sure there can be more than one ape called Aldo. And since Aldo was
turned into a chimp in CONQUEST, in the films he obviously was not the
same character as in BATTLE. But the writers of BATTLE, and probably
CONQUEST too, meant for Aldo to be the same character as the earlier movies.
Since the CONQUEST Aldo had most of his scenes cut in the film it
doesn't really matter anyway. Cornelius' timeline is a big inconsistency,
although I suppose you can say their records just weren't very good.

-Tom

>of joy. But the Lawgiver is more benevolent than in "Planet" and "Beneath".
>Is he like Darth Vader and will turn to the dark side? Wasn't there a comic
>book that dealt with the Lawgiver?

There was a comic (Marvel) that dealt with the Lawgiver but it was kind of
lame. My favorite comic series is probably Dark Horse.

>Or is the John Huston Lawgiver just one
>of many? - - - - Jeff

No, there was only one. Dr. Zaius in PLANET says that the sacred scrolls
were written by "the greatest ape of all, our Lawgiver".


-Tom

But over the course of time other Lawgivers could've been lost to history.
There's one of the comic books where Mendez leaves the mutants, suggesting a
change of history.

- -
- Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Melkor" <melkor@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 5:47 PM
Subject: Re: [pota] Battle for the POTA (part 3)


> >of joy. But the Lawgiver is more benevolent than in "Planet" and
"Beneath".
> >Is he like Darth Vader and will turn to the dark side? Wasn't there a
comic
> >book that dealt with the Lawgiver?
>
> There was a comic (Marvel) that dealt with the Lawgiver but it was kind of
> lame. My favorite comic series is probably Dark Horse.
>
>
> >Or is the John Huston Lawgiver just one
> >of many? - - - -
Jeff
>
> No, there was only one. Dr. Zaius in PLANET says that the sacred scrolls
> were written by "the greatest ape of all, our Lawgiver".
>
>
> -Tom
>
>
>

.htmlIn a message dated 8/31/2001 5:47:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
whitty@... writes:

  I've always assumed the end of "Battle" is  a tear of sorrow because the
other movies end downbeat. I don't think a statue would bother with a tear
of joy. But the Lawgiver is more benevolent than in "Planet" and "Beneath".
Is he like Darth Vader and will turn to the dark side? Wasn't there a comic
book that dealt with the Lawgiver? Or is the John Huston Lawgiver just one
of many?                                                       - - - - Jeff

Not only that, but it was a tear of blood. In my mind there was no doubt that
it was a tear of sorrow.

<.html

I've just re-subscribed now there's no fear of any spoilers. This is
just a quick test to make sure everythings as it should be.

Dave B

How did you like the movie, Dave?

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: dballard@... [dballard@...]
Sent: Saturday, 1 September 2001 22:42
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [pota] Testing

I've just re-subscribed now there's no fear of any spoilers. This is
just a quick test to make sure everythings as it should be.

Dave B

Hello, everyone,

Just thought I'd introduce myself since I just subscribed. I had joined
the "ape" group, but there was very little discussion there, and what
little there was there was just fighting and insults. Therefore, I
unsubscribed from the other group and thought I'd try this one.

I'm an Apes fan from waaaayyy back who looked forward to Apes Week on TV
every year in the early 70s and grew up watching the TV series and
cartoons. I've since collected all the comics, British annuals, records,
and other story-related collectibles (I'm not much into memorabilia -- it's
all about the stories with me). The new movie was a good excuse to revisit
my collection, and I've been enjoying re-reading them. The only things I'm
missing are some of the novelizations--lost 'em in a fire years ago--which
I'm trying to find again. I especially want to find the animated
novelization containing "A Date With Judy" since it's an original book, not
from one of the cartoons--if anyone has an extra copy, please let me know!

Let's see, what can I tell you about myself...

I live in New York with my wife and daughter. I'm a fiction writer,
journalist, and magazine editor. I've done licensed work for the Star
Trek, Star Wars, First Wave, and Battlestar Galactica universes, and I'd
love to write something POTA-related--but it's such a narrow field right
now (two licensees with very few products coming from either) that there's
little chance. Anyone know what Dark Horse's policy is on accepting POTA
scripts? (I've done work for them before, so that my help.)

Anyway, gotta go--looking forward to reading what you all have to say!

Rich

--- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:

> How did you like the movie, Dave?

Well I'd like to have time to "absorb" it before I make any
comments that anyone might hold me to (I've had 30 odd years
to absorb the original) but first impressions are very much a
mixed bag. I do think there is much to enjoy in the new movie but
only IF you can distance yourself from the original. It's no easy
task I know, especially with all the "homages" coming at you all
through the running time.

I was surprised at how unlike a Tim Burton movie it is and that
atrocious ending was simply insulting. It would be a much better
film if that ending was deleted from future prints and finish with
Davidson flying off into the great unknown (Friendlier for sequels
too?)

So ignoring the utterly nonsensical "twist" and judging the rest of
the movie by todays standards, I actually rather enjoyed it. It's
nowhere near "classic" apes but it's no "Tomb Raider" either.
Personally I'd rather watch this than "Battle" or "Conquest"

More of a big budget re-make of "Time of the Apes" perhaps?

I wonder...Were the crap background mask another subtle nod to
the original?

Most movies that I've been looking forward to for awhile I enjoy
more on the second viewing so I'll sit on the fence for awhile and
watch it again this weekend. My mum took me to see the
"Beneath" all those years ago. Tomorrow I'm taking her to see
the remake. What goes around comes around eh?

Dave B

Rory <Haristas@...> wrote:

> [2001]
> It was cancelled!!! GOD DAMN IT ALL TO HELL!!!

On a more positive note, my local cinema (which cancelled it) appears to
have it pencilled in again for later this month.

Alan

<mflulder@...> wrote:

> Not only that, but it was a tear of blood. In my mind there was no doubt

that

> it was a tear of sorrow.

No, that's only the Lawgiver statue in "Beneath". The Caesar statue in
"Battle" is a real tear, which is the ambiguity we're talking about.

Alan

"Rich Handley" <rhandley@...> wrote:

> Just thought I'd introduce myself since I just subscribed. I had joined
> the "ape" group, but there was very little discussion there, and what
> little there was there was just fighting and insults.

Yep, it's not very good. I can't understand why there are so many groups.
Pointless.

> I especially want to find the animated
> novelization containing "A Date With Judy" since it's an original book,

not

> from one of the cartoons--if anyone has an extra copy, please let me know!

That would be Return to the Planet of the Apes #1 ("Visions from Nowhere")
by William Arrow, probably the most common of the three books based on the
animated series. You should be able to locate a copy either through ebay or
somewhere like http://www.abebooks.com/.

> I live in New York with my wife and daughter. I'm a fiction writer,
> journalist, and magazine editor. I've done licensed work for the Star
> Trek, Star Wars, First Wave, and Battlestar Galactica universes, and I'd
> love to write something POTA-related--but it's such a narrow field right
> now (two licensees with very few products coming from either) that there's
> little chance. Anyone know what Dark Horse's policy is on accepting POTA
> scripts? (I've done work for them before, so that my help.)

First off, I'd say you've got next to no chance. Sorry, I thought I'd better
get that in straight away! Breaking into comics is exceptionally difficult
anyway, moreso if you're a writer. Also, companies are not likely to accept
unsolicited proposals of stories for their more popular titles or licenced
titles. Also, Dark Horse is notoriously difficult for a writer to break
into.

This is not to say you should give up however. For one thing, you have said
that you are a writer and editor - this will help. Moreso since you've
worked on other such licences. More importantly, you say you have done work
for Dark Horse before. This is always a good advantage, but it will depend
on what sort of work. Certainly you appear to have a better chance than a
lot of people.

Search the web and you'll find lots of websites devoted to comics writing,
which will be full of useful advice and tips. To be honest though, what
you've written above suggests that you should know more about it than we do!

Above all other websites, check the Dark Horse one (which I think is
www.darkhorsecomics.com or something like that) as it will contain their
submission guidelines.

Best of luck!

Alan

Welcome back, Dave!

Alan

Looks like everything is A-okay. ;)

-Joe.

.htmlIn a message dated 8/31/01 7:57:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

How could Mandemus have been Virgil's teacher as a child? Because that
armory had been his home for 27 years.

                                                                        -
- - - Teacher


Weren't the events in BATTLE supposed to take place only twelve or thirteen
years after CONQUEST?

-- Student


<.html

.html Master of Disguise: My Secret Life in the CIA
- the memoirs of Antonio Mendez, a longtime CIA operative during the Cold War. Includes a spy glossary.
<http://www.themasterofdisguise.com/ >

Jack Krueger wrote:

  Hey Brian? What was the book and documentary that kind of gives the background on John Chambers' work for the CIA? I think it was called "Masters of Disguise". Who was the author?                                                                                   - - - Jeff   

----- Original Message -----

From: Jack Krueger

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 4:59 PM

Subject: Re: [pota] Aldo in CONQUEST

  How could Mandemus have been Virgil's teacher as a child? Because that armory had been his home for 27 years.                                                                          - - - - Teacher  

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 4:23 PM

Subject: Re: [pota] Aldo in CONQUEST

 In a message dated 8/31/01 7:06:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:
 
 

The old fallback on this is that Aldo could be a common name, just as with
all the Zauises (the TV Zauis is NEVER referred to as DR. Zauis, to the
writers' credit. Chimp Aldo and Gorilla Aldo are different characters. Both
play off what Cornelius says in "Escape". Instead of being the apes who
first say"No!", chimp Aldo gets sedated and gorilla Aldo is the first ape to
be told "No!" to, after the rebellion. I don't know what the significance is
of Lisa becoming the first ape to say "No" but I think it's obvious in
"Conquest" the "Apes" take over sooner than it's told in Cornelius' histort.
Not exactly circular.
 

  - - - Jeff

Okay, can we now move on to some other character?  Enough of Aldo.  How about
Virgil?  How did he get so smart in such a short time?  And how cound
Mandemus have been his teacher when he was a child?

And another thing I'd like to say. . . inconsistencies from entry to entry
just go with the territory with film series.  Hell, look at the old
Frankenstein series.  And James Bond!  You think they bothered making sure
every Andy Hardy or Sherlock Holmes film followed to the letter what happened
before?  You can bet your Charlie Chan they didn't!!!  I think it's best not
to give the inconsistencies too much thought -- unless you've got nothing
better to do and love playing connect the dots.  But then that's your
insanity.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

<.html

Hi Rich, welcome (is that just your name or a description of your financial
status? If it's the latter, you're my new best friend).

Once again, "A Date With Judy" is actually the episode "An Unearthly
Prophecy", it's not an original story.

Dark Horse is going monthly with their "Apes" comics but it remains to be
seen how popular they become. If they do there will probably be miniseries,
etc. I'd love to see them do some Classic Apes stuff, since Burton's world
is very limited. But I'm enjoying the comics better than the movie.

- - -
- Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Handley" <rhandley@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 6:44 AM
Subject: [pota] Greetings!


> Hello, everyone,
>
> Just thought I'd introduce myself since I just subscribed. I had joined
> the "ape" group, but there was very little discussion there, and what
> little there was there was just fighting and insults. Therefore, I
> unsubscribed from the other group and thought I'd try this one.
>
> I'm an Apes fan from waaaayyy back who looked forward to Apes Week on TV
> every year in the early 70s and grew up watching the TV series and
> cartoons. I've since collected all the comics, British annuals, records,
> and other story-related collectibles (I'm not much into memorabilia --
it's
> all about the stories with me). The new movie was a good excuse to
revisit
> my collection, and I've been enjoying re-reading them. The only things
I'm
> missing are some of the novelizations--lost 'em in a fire years ago--which
> I'm trying to find again. I especially want to find the animated
> novelization containing "A Date With Judy" since it's an original book,
not
> from one of the cartoons--if anyone has an extra copy, please let me know!
>
> Let's see, what can I tell you about myself...
>
> I live in New York with my wife and daughter. I'm a fiction writer,
> journalist, and magazine editor. I've done licensed work for the Star
> Trek, Star Wars, First Wave, and Battlestar Galactica universes, and I'd
> love to write something POTA-related--but it's such a narrow field right
> now (two licensees with very few products coming from either) that there's
> little chance. Anyone know what Dark Horse's policy is on accepting POTA
> scripts? (I've done work for them before, so that my help.)
>
> Anyway, gotta go--looking forward to reading what you all have to say!
>
> Rich
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 8:05 AM

Subject: Re: [pota] Aldo in CONQUEST

In a message dated 8/31/01 7:57:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

How could Mandemus have been Virgil's teacher as a child? Because that
armory had been his home for 27 years.

                                                                        -
- - - Teacher

Weren't the events in BATTLE supposed to take place only twelve or thirteen
years after CONQUEST?

-- Student




Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

Hi! Welcome to the group! What are some of the issues of comics or books that
you have written or worked on? I would love to read some! Let me know! Thanks!

Loc


In a message dated 9/1/01 8:37:08 AM Central Daylight Time,
rhandley@... writes:

<< I've done licensed work for the Star
Trek, Star Wars, First Wave, and Battlestar Galactica universes, and I'd
love to write something POTA-related--but it's such a narrow field right
now (two licensees with very few products coming from either) that there's
little chance. Anyone know what Dark Horse's policy is on accepting POTA
scripts? (I've done work for them before, so that my help.)

>>

.html <.html

X-Mailer: CommuniGate Pro Web Mailer v.3.2
Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 12:39:40 -0700
Message-ID: <web-8618810@...>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

> How could Mandemus have been Virgil's teacher as a child? Because that
>> armory had been his home for 27 years.
>>
>> -
>> - - - Teacher
>>
>
>Weren't the events in BATTLE supposed to take place only twelve or thirteen
>years after CONQUEST?
>
>-- Student

A lot of people assumed that because Mendez tells Kolp "If we shoot,
we break 12 years of peace", and because Cornelius is around 12 years
old. Jeff is right, unless Mandemus lived in that armory while still
a slave, you have to push that back to at least 27 years. The Marvel
timeline had 12 years but that timeline has so many problems that it's
really useless.

Here's something else to think about. How did Kolp get his hands on the
Alpha-Omega doomsday bomb? Was it in the city at the time of CONQUEST?
My guess is that he moved it from a nearby military facility. It was
interesting that Mendez knew it's power but Alma did not. In BENEATH the
mutants called it a "holy weapon of peace", because it was originally
supposed to be a deterrent to war. So why did the government keep its
existence a state secret?

From the UK newspaper - The Times 1st Sept 2001

Not only did the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences
create a special Oscar for John Chambers, they hired a
chimpanzee, in a tuxedo, to hand it over. The presentation in
1968 seemed entirely appropriate in recognition of the
groundbreaking work Chambers had done designing the
make-up for the original Planet of the Apes.

The film had been turned down by every studio in Hollywood for
fear audiences would not take talking apes seriously. Chambers
successfully transformed actors of the calibre of Roddy
McDowall into simian versions of themselves and the end result
was one of the biggest hits of 1968, a classic that more than
holds its own against the current remake.

Chambers is a cult figure in Star Trek circles too, for being the
man who designed and created Mr Spock's famous pointy
ears—ears only rivalled by Mickey Mouse's as the most
recognisable in 20thcentury popular culture. Chambers is
regarded by many as the father of modern cinema make-up. He
inspired a generation to take up the craft and helped to persuade
the Academy that make-up artists should have their own Oscar.

But movies were not his first career. He was lured by the
promise of Hollywood escapism only after years of pioneering,
and sometimes heartbreaking, work with disfigured war
veterans, producing artificial ears, noses and even whole faces.
Chambers was a big, straight-talking, happy-go lucky man, born
in Chicago, and fiercely proud of his family's Irish roots. He
trained as a commercial artist, designed jewellery and exhibited
as a sculptor before the Second World War, in which he served
as a medical technician. Cosmetic surgery was in its infancy;
Chambers helped to develop new rubber compounds and
prosthetics, and established a reputation as a miracle worker.

But the work took a huge emotional toll and he felt too much was
expected of him. He was able to use his artistic gifts to recreate
faces, but there was no technology at the time to animate the
features, and he was deeply affected by the hopes and despair
of victims and relatives.

He thought his work with prosthetics might open doors in
Hollywood and in 1953 he secured a post with NBC television.
He worked on such enduring TV series as Lost in Space, The
Munsters, The Outer Limits and Star Trek One of his biggest
challenges was working with Paul Newman on the boxing
drama The Battler, when he had to add cuts and bruises to
Newman's features almost as quickly as they would have
appeared naturally, because the programme was going out live.

Planet of the Apes was to prove an even bigger challenge. There
was a Hollywood tradition of actors in ape costumes and masks,
but usually these were comedies or B-movies, and they were not
normally required to speak. But Planet of the Apes was set in a
world where evolution had been turned upside down, humans
were dumb and chimps, gorillas and orang-utans were the
superior species. Chambers had to devise a new type of
make-up in which the ape lips would seem to form words.

When it came to the ability of the subject to express emotion,
Chambers knew, from his experience as a medical technican,
the difference between a mask, that covered the whole face and
individual false features. He and his team worked round the
clock to perfect designs, using plaster likenesses of the actors,
faces as the starting point. Make-up was glued, piece by piece,
to the actor~s skin. Part of the face was painted, but otherwise
left exposed, enabling actors to wrinkle their faces and express
emotion. In the course of his work he developed new adhesives,
new non-cracking paint and a new type of foam rubber, which
allowed heat and sweat to pass through.

Initially the make-up process took five or six hours, and it never
came down below three or four. Actors had to turn up in the
middle of the night so they would be ready to shoot in the
morning, and often slept as make-up was applied.

Whenever producers were faced with a particularly daunting
make-up challenge they would invariably think of Chambers,
who often worked uncredited on specific assignments. He
designed Tony Curtis's false nose in The Boston Strangler
(1968) and Richard Harris's false chest in the western A Man
Called Horse (1970). Harris had pins inserted into his chest and
was hoisted into the air in a gruelling American Indian ritual.
Other films included The Island of Dr Moreau (1977) and Brian
De Palma's Phantom of theParadise (1974).

In 1967, the year in which Planet of the Apes was filmed, two
researchers captured on film what was purported to be footage
of Bigfoot, America's equivalent of the Abominable Snowman,
walking in California woods. It was long rumoured it was a hoax,
with Chambers supposedly responsible for the outfit, an
allegation he always denied, claiming he would have done it
better.

Latterly he was confined to a wheelchair by a stroke and
paralysed on one side. He remained a great talker and
storyteller, and an Irish tricolour brightened up his room at the
motion picture industry hospital in Woodland Hills California, not
far from the Fox ranch, where he worked on Planet of the Apes.

He is survived by his wife Joan.

John Chambers, make-up artist, was born in Chicago on
September 12,1922. He died in Woodland Hills, California, on
August 25 2001, aged 78.

Someone told me they saw a thing about John on CNN so they must of released
the news finally. He died a week ago!

-
- - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: <dballard@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 1:51 PM
Subject: [pota] John Chambers obituary


From the UK newspaper - The Times 1st Sept 2001

Not only did the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences
create a special Oscar for John Chambers, they hired a
chimpanzee, in a tuxedo, to hand it over. The presentation in
1968 seemed entirely appropriate in recognition of the
groundbreaking work Chambers had done designing the
make-up for the original Planet of the Apes.

The film had been turned down by every studio in Hollywood for
fear audiences would not take talking apes seriously. Chambers
successfully transformed actors of the calibre of Roddy
McDowall into simian versions of themselves and the end result
was one of the biggest hits of 1968, a classic that more than
holds its own against the current remake.

Chambers is a cult figure in Star Trek circles too, for being the
man who designed and created Mr Spock's famous pointy
ears-ears only rivalled by Mickey Mouse's as the most
recognisable in 20thcentury popular culture. Chambers is
regarded by many as the father of modern cinema make-up. He
inspired a generation to take up the craft and helped to persuade
the Academy that make-up artists should have their own Oscar.

But movies were not his first career. He was lured by the
promise of Hollywood escapism only after years of pioneering,
and sometimes heartbreaking, work with disfigured war
veterans, producing artificial ears, noses and even whole faces.
Chambers was a big, straight-talking, happy-go lucky man, born
in Chicago, and fiercely proud of his family's Irish roots. He
trained as a commercial artist, designed jewellery and exhibited
as a sculptor before the Second World War, in which he served
as a medical technician. Cosmetic surgery was in its infancy;
Chambers helped to develop new rubber compounds and
prosthetics, and established a reputation as a miracle worker.

But the work took a huge emotional toll and he felt too much was
expected of him. He was able to use his artistic gifts to recreate
faces, but there was no technology at the time to animate the
features, and he was deeply affected by the hopes and despair
of victims and relatives.

He thought his work with prosthetics might open doors in
Hollywood and in 1953 he secured a post with NBC television.
He worked on such enduring TV series as Lost in Space, The
Munsters, The Outer Limits and Star Trek One of his biggest
challenges was working with Paul Newman on the boxing
drama The Battler, when he had to add cuts and bruises to
Newman's features almost as quickly as they would have
appeared naturally, because the programme was going out live.

Planet of the Apes was to prove an even bigger challenge. There
was a Hollywood tradition of actors in ape costumes and masks,
but usually these were comedies or B-movies, and they were not
normally required to speak. But Planet of the Apes was set in a
world where evolution had been turned upside down, humans
were dumb and chimps, gorillas and orang-utans were the
superior species. Chambers had to devise a new type of
make-up in which the ape lips would seem to form words.

When it came to the ability of the subject to express emotion,
Chambers knew, from his experience as a medical technican,
the difference between a mask, that covered the whole face and
individual false features. He and his team worked round the
clock to perfect designs, using plaster likenesses of the actors,
faces as the starting point. Make-up was glued, piece by piece,
to the actor~s skin. Part of the face was painted, but otherwise
left exposed, enabling actors to wrinkle their faces and express
emotion. In the course of his work he developed new adhesives,
new non-cracking paint and a new type of foam rubber, which
allowed heat and sweat to pass through.

Initially the make-up process took five or six hours, and it never
came down below three or four. Actors had to turn up in the
middle of the night so they would be ready to shoot in the
morning, and often slept as make-up was applied.

Whenever producers were faced with a particularly daunting
make-up challenge they would invariably think of Chambers,
who often worked uncredited on specific assignments. He
designed Tony Curtis's false nose in The Boston Strangler
(1968) and Richard Harris's false chest in the western A Man
Called Horse (1970). Harris had pins inserted into his chest and
was hoisted into the air in a gruelling American Indian ritual.
Other films included The Island of Dr Moreau (1977) and Brian
De Palma's Phantom of theParadise (1974).

In 1967, the year in which Planet of the Apes was filmed, two
researchers captured on film what was purported to be footage
of Bigfoot, America's equivalent of the Abominable Snowman,
walking in California woods. It was long rumoured it was a hoax,
with Chambers supposedly responsible for the outfit, an
allegation he always denied, claiming he would have done it
better.

Latterly he was confined to a wheelchair by a stroke and
paralysed on one side. He remained a great talker and
storyteller, and an Irish tricolour brightened up his room at the
motion picture industry hospital in Woodland Hills California, not
far from the Fox ranch, where he worked on Planet of the Apes.

He is survived by his wife Joan.

John Chambers, make-up artist, was born in Chicago on
September 12,1922. He died in Woodland Hills, California, on
August 25 2001, aged 78.

.htmlClick here: eBay item 1459388488 (Ends Sep-01-01 18:32:02 PDT ) - Planet of
the Apes (1968) Gorilla Appliance

Here's something in very great need of Apemania restoration.

-- Rory <.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/1/01 2:12:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

No, young apprentice...

In the movie (which to me takes precedence over other sources) Mandemus
says 27 years, plus whatever length of time it took to get him into the
armory. Marvel magazine said "Battle" took place in 2001 and others have
co-opted it, including Fox's "official" chronology. But NO!

                                                                           
- - - - Jeff


Then how old would that make Caesar and Aldo?   Wouldn't they like be in
their fifties or maybe even sixties by the time of BATTLE?

(Okay, explain that, smart guy!)

-- confused student<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/1/01 3:43:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
prophecysite@... writes:

ZANUCK!!!  ZANUCK!!!!   Slowly I turn.  Step by step. . . .

-- Rory

Hey, the man has cast iron balls. And would put Fox before anything.
ZANUCK? Zanuck put POTA on the big screen so I don't understand your
contradiction Rory. Unless you know the man personaly...do you?

Best,


I don't think Zanuck really understands what made the original APES work so
well, and from what I see in the new movie I KNOW HE DOESN'T.

I'm not the only one here who's not so crazy about the "Dickster"!

C'mon, somebody help me out here, I got Alex on my ass!

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/1/01 3:45:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
melkor@... writes:

Here's something else to think about.  How did Kolp get his hands on the
Alpha-Omega doomsday bomb?  Was it in the city at the time of CONQUEST?
My guess is that he moved it from a nearby military facility.  It was
interesting that Mendez knew it's power but Alma did not.  In BENEATH the
mutants called it a "holy weapon of peace", because it was originally
supposed to be a deterrent to war.  So why did the government keep its
existence a state secret?

Oh, my head is throbbing!  When did we get into this "trying to make sense of
BATTLE" thing?  It's time for me to remind everyone of the 'forgotten' APES
movie. . . It's called "ENOUGH OF THE PLANET OF THE APES"!!!    Well, at
least BATTLE.

-- Rory (the bothersome APES fan)<.html

.html In a message dated 8/31/01 7:57:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

How could Mandemus have been Virgil's teacher as a child? Because that
armory had been his home for 27 years.

                                                                        -
- - - Teacher


Weren't the events in BATTLE supposed to take place only twelve or thirteen
years after CONQUEST?

-- Student




Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .
<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 2:28 PM

Subject: Re: [pota] Aldo in CONQUEST

In a message dated 9/1/01 2:12:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

No, young apprentice...

In the movie (which to me takes precedence over other sources) Mandemus
says 27 years, plus whatever length of time it took to get him into the
armory. Marvel magazine said "Battle" took place in 2001 and others have
co-opted it, including Fox's "official" chronology. But NO!

                                                                           
- - - - Jeff

Then how old would that make Caesar and Aldo?   Wouldn't they like be in
their fifties or maybe even sixties by the time of BATTLE?

(Okay, explain that, smart guy!)

-- confused student

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/1/01 6:21:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
whitty@... writes:

I too was hoping to spend some time on these ideas and maybe attempt a comic
book or something - never mind!

Michael



Um, I think you need to be a little more subtle there, mate.  But it was
funny.

-- Rory <.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/1/01 6:22:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

 Let's see...Caesar was born in 1973, "Conquest" is 1991, that's 18 years
old, +27 years is 45, maybe 5 years to establish their society, 50 years
old. Had Cornelius, what 12 years before? Look at Tony Randall go! It would
make more sense with giving the apes time to learn how to talk, etc.
Doesn't Caesar look good for his age?                 - - - Jeff

Well, didn't Roddy McDowall play a teenager in "Lord Love a Duck" when he was
actually 35?

-- Rory<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 2:32 PM

Subject: Re: [pota] A Contradicting World

In a message dated 9/1/01 3:43:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
prophecysite@... writes:

ZANUCK!!!  ZANUCK!!!!   Slowly I turn.  Step by step. . . .

-- Rory

Hey, the man has cast iron balls. And would put Fox before anything.
ZANUCK? Zanuck put POTA on the big screen so I don't understand your
contradiction Rory. Unless you know the man personaly...do you?

Best,

I don't think Zanuck really understands what made the original APES work so
well, and from what I see in the new movie I KNOW HE DOESN'T.

I'm not the only one here who's not so crazy about the "Dickster"!

C'mon, somebody help me out here, I got Alex on my ass!

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html In a message dated 9/1/01 6:21:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
whitty@... writes:

I too was hoping to spend some time on these ideas and maybe attempt a comic
book or something - never mind!

Michael



Um, I think you need to be a little more subtle there, mate.  But it was
funny.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .
<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 2:36 PM

Subject: Re: [pota] Aldo in CONQUEST

In a message dated 9/1/01 3:45:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
melkor@... writes:

Here's something else to think about.  How did Kolp get his hands on the
Alpha-Omega doomsday bomb?  Was it in the city at the time of CONQUEST?
My guess is that he moved it from a nearby military facility.  It was
interesting that Mendez knew it's power but Alma did not.  In BENEATH the
mutants called it a "holy weapon of peace", because it was originally
supposed to be a deterrent to war.  So why did the government keep its
existence a state secret?

Oh, my head is throbbing!  When did we get into this "trying to make sense of
BATTLE" thing?  It's time for me to remind everyone of the 'forgotten' APES
movie. . . It's called "ENOUGH OF THE PLANET OF THE APES"!!!    Well, at
least BATTLE.

-- Rory (the bothersome APES fan)

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 2:36 PM

Subject: Re: [pota] Aldo in CONQUEST

In a message dated 9/1/01 3:45:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
melkor@... writes:

Here's something else to think about.  How did Kolp get his hands on the
Alpha-Omega doomsday bomb?  Was it in the city at the time of CONQUEST?
My guess is that he moved it from a nearby military facility.  It was
interesting that Mendez knew it's power but Alma did not.  In BENEATH the
mutants called it a "holy weapon of peace", because it was originally
supposed to be a deterrent to war.  So why did the government keep its
existence a state secret?

Oh, my head is throbbing!  When did we get into this "trying to make sense of
BATTLE" thing?  It's time for me to remind everyone of the 'forgotten' APES
movie. . . It's called "ENOUGH OF THE PLANET OF THE APES"!!!    Well, at
least BATTLE.

-- Rory (the bothersome APES fan)

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

<< You can bet your Charlie Chan they didn't!!! I think it's best not
to give the inconsistencies too much thought -- >>

I'm sure they would have for Mister Moto.
A series far superior to Charlie Chan, IMHO.
Thought the films never had anything to do with each other.
So that wasn't a problem. What I want to know is how Sherlock Homes went
from the 1880s to fighting the Nazis in the 1930s and 40s. That was never
adequately explained to my satisfaction. But I digress. POTA is not so well
figured out as to fit together like a jigsaw puzzle. Face it, Battle has no
explanations. There's no way those apes all gained the power of speech in
the years following the war. Let alone that old geezer Mandemus being
Virgil's teacher. Unless, like Ari, you believe they could talk already, but
chose not to because of the way they were treated. And if you try and make
sense of nonsense you'll go insane.

<< How could Mandemus have been Virgil's teacher as a child? Because that
armory had been his home for 27 years. >>

How old does that make Virgil then? Or Caesar for that matter?
And Lisa? Why does young Conelius seem about twelve?

Nonsense! NONSENSE!!!

I did see one of those screen blurbs on CNN.
I wish I could quote it to you but they went to commercial the moment it
popped up!
Something like ...Fade To Black: Makeup pioneer John Chambers dead at .....
or somthing like that.

In a message dated 8/31/01 7:52:45 PM Central Daylight Time,
melkor@... writes:

<< No, there was only one. Dr. Zaius in PLANET says that the sacred scrolls
were written by "the greatest ape of all, our Lawgiver". >>

If that's the case then the time line had indeed changed. Either that or the
statues are of a much younger Lawgiver than portrayed by Houston.

In a message dated 8/31/01 10:09:20 PM Central Daylight Time,
mflulder@... writes:

<< Not only that, but it was a tear of blood. In my mind there was no doubt
that
it was a tear of sorrow. >>

You bet it was...he was looking ahead to the future treatment of Apes by the
schlock-meisters at Fox!

In a message dated 9/1/01 8:36:37 AM Central Daylight Time,
dballard@... writes:

<< Personally I'd rather watch this than "Battle" or "Conquest" >>

Thank you! I now feel vindicated...
Rory....You may now take pot shots.

In a message dated 9/1/01 8:37:09 AM Central Daylight Time,
rhandley@... writes:

<< I'd love to write something POTA-related- >>

Hey Rich, I'm working on a script for the sequel right now.
If you feel like collaborating just give a shout.
The movie wasn't that bad. And I think a good franchise can
be salvaged from it. If they just take it all more seriously.

.html I'm with you Jeff,
Zanuck's involvement with the new movie is nothing more than an ego trip. So he can glom off all the attention and be credited as being responsible for the original film. Sure he had a part in it, but certainly he's not as revered by the likes of us who know better.
Best,
KEN

Jack Krueger wrote:

  Zanuck liked the basic idea to a point. But he's a credit hog. He makes it sound like he sheperded the original but according to Joe Russo's book Fox considered "Apes" a vanity project. They listened to Jacobs only because they wanted other movies from him. At one point Zanuck took a meeting and said "Swear to me, no "Apes!" Mort Abrahams swore this would be the last time and Zanuck gave him 5 minutes and the grosses for "Fantastic Voyage" were brought up. This was after the makeup test that SUPPOSEDLY sold the project but didn't.  "Fantastic Voyage" saved "Apes". After that ,Abrahams says Zanuck "stuck his neck out" at the board meeting and got it a go. Yes, Zanuck deserves some credit but he ignored the contributions of Arthur and Mort, the real heroes of "Apes" and I'll never forgive Zanuck for shutting Natalie Trundy out. And no, he didn't know what made "Apes" works and I hope he enjoyed the reviews and the lack of repeat business. Not that he cares, he got his share.                                                                             - - - - Jeff  

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 2:32 PM

Subject: Re: [pota] A Contradicting World

 In a message dated 9/1/01 3:43:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
prophecysite@... writes:
 
 

ZANUCK!!!  ZANUCK!!!!   Slowly I turn.  Step by step. . . .

-- Rory
 

Hey, the man has cast iron balls. And would put Fox before anything.
ZANUCK? Zanuck put POTA on the big screen so I don't understand your
contradiction Rory. Unless you know the man personaly...do you?

Best,

I don't think Zanuck really understands what made the original APES work so
well, and from what I see in the new movie I KNOW HE DOESN'T.

I'm not the only one here who's not so crazy about the "Dickster"!

C'mon, somebody help me out here, I got Alex on my ass!

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

<.html

And while we're at it, how did they transport the Alpha Omega bomb from 'North
America' to it's final resting place in New York in Beneath? Unless the events of
Conquest were meant to be set in New York.
And how come at the beginning of Conquest Caesar ( or was he still Milo then? )
wears his regular APE feet shoes yet when he joins the slaves he changes to
regular human-shaped slip ons and socks?
I agree with LordT, as fun as it may be to hypothesize about the inconsistencies,
they are just that. Trying to make sense of nonsense will drive you insane. I
couldn't even be bothered trying to make sense of the new movie's ending as I
just didn't care enough to bother. The makers of the film were desperate to have
a 'shock' ending to TRY to top the original but didn't give the audience any
credit by making it a plausible ending.
Best,
KEN

<< I don't think Zanuck really understands what made the original APES work
so
well, and from what I see in the new movie I KNOW HE DOESN'T.

I'm not the only one here who's not so crazy about the "Dickster"!

C'mon, somebody help me out here, I got Alex on my ass! >>


Okay . . . Just because a producer brings you a film, doesn't mean he
understands it. Jacobs understood Apes. Zanuck didn't. Want proof? Watch
Behind POTA again. He just didn't get it. And he thought all the subtext
was written in by people after the fact rather than being deliberate.
Puuuuuullease! From Serling and Wilson? He just didn't see it. He is
dense! Which is probably why he fits in so well at Fox. It's a love hate
thing with Zanuck. I love hating him. I love him for greenlighting Apes,
twice! I hate him turning Apes into just another Summer Action Blockbuster.
And I would love it if he would delegate the overseeing of all future Apes
project to someone with a head on their shoulders. "Nuff said...

Since I'm already insane, I enjoy connecting the dots. I did a part one
chronology for , what was that magazine? Ape Chronicles? And part two is in
the future.

- - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken & Heather Taylor" <kentaylor@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: [pota] Aldo in CONQUEST


>
> And while we're at it, how did they transport the Alpha Omega bomb from
'North
> America' to it's final resting place in New York in Beneath? Unless the
events of
> Conquest were meant to be set in New York.
> And how come at the beginning of Conquest Caesar ( or was he still Milo
then? )
> wears his regular APE feet shoes yet when he joins the slaves he changes
to
> regular human-shaped slip ons and socks?
> I agree with LordT, as fun as it may be to hypothesize about the
inconsistencies,
> they are just that. Trying to make sense of nonsense will drive you
insane. I
> couldn't even be bothered trying to make sense of the new movie's ending
as I
> just didn't care enough to bother. The makers of the film were desperate
to have
> a 'shock' ending to TRY to top the original but didn't give the audience
any
> credit by making it a plausible ending.
> Best,
> KEN
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Zanuck said the combination of Burton and "Apes" spelled magic for him. He
can't spell either! - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: <LordTZer0@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: [pota] A Contradicting World


> << I don't think Zanuck really understands what made the original APES
work
> so
> well, and from what I see in the new movie I KNOW HE DOESN'T.
>
> I'm not the only one here who's not so crazy about the "Dickster"!
>
> C'mon, somebody help me out here, I got Alex on my ass! >>
>
>
> Okay . . . Just because a producer brings you a film, doesn't mean he
> understands it. Jacobs understood Apes. Zanuck didn't. Want proof?
Watch
> Behind POTA again. He just didn't get it. And he thought all the subtext
> was written in by people after the fact rather than being deliberate.
> Puuuuuullease! From Serling and Wilson? He just didn't see it. He
is
> dense! Which is probably why he fits in so well at Fox. It's a love
hate
> thing with Zanuck. I love hating him. I love him for greenlighting Apes,
> twice! I hate him turning Apes into just another Summer Action
Blockbuster.
> And I would love it if he would delegate the overseeing of all future Apes
> project to someone with a head on their shoulders. "Nuff said...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

In a message dated 9/1/01 5:30:28 PM Central Daylight Time, Haristas@...
writes:

<< Well, didn't Roddy McDowall play a teenager in "Lord Love a Duck" when he
was
actually 35? >>

Shades of 90210

>From: "Alan Maxwell" <alan@...>
>Subject: Re: Greetings!
>Yep, it's not very good. I can't understand why there are so many groups.
>Pointless.

Exactly. This seems to be a cooler group, based on the few emails I've
gotten so far. Over in that other group, there are a handful of trolls
just waiting to insult you the moment you express an opinion they don't
agree with. Plus, you get a lot of "you're not a TRUE fan" crap over
there, whatever the hell a "true" fan is.

>That would be Return to the Planet of the Apes #1 ("Visions from Nowhere")
>by William Arrow, probably the most common of the three books based on the
>animated series. You should be able to locate a copy either through ebay or
>somewhere like http://www.abebooks.com/.

Cool, thanks.

>First off, I'd say you've got next to no chance. Sorry, I thought I'd better
>get that in straight away! Breaking into comics is exceptionally difficult
>anyway, moreso if you're a writer.

I appreciate the candor. :)

>Also, companies are not likely to accept unsolicited proposals of
>stories for their more popular titles or licenced titles. Also, Dark
>Horse is notoriously difficult for a writer to break into.

All very true!

>This is not to say you should give up however. For one thing, you have said
>that you are a writer and editor - this will help. Moreso since you've
>worked on other such licences. More importantly, you say you have done work
>for Dark Horse before. This is always a good advantage, but it will depend
>on what sort of work. Certainly you appear to have a better chance than a
>lot of people.

That's what I'm hoping. I've done some comic work already -- I co-wrote a
"Star Wars" comic with Darko Macan for Dark Horse's "Star Wars Tales" #3
and also did some behind-the-scenes work on "Classic Star Wars: A Long Time
Ago" #1-6. I was an associate editor on Realm Press "Battlestar Galactica"
and Andromeda Press's "First Wave," and I've also written comics columns
for "Star Wars Galaxy Collector," "Star Wars Insider," "Star Wars Gamer,"
and "Star Trek Communicator." I was SUPPOSED to write a ""Star Trek"
script for Wildstorm last year, but it got cut for budgetary reasons.
<sigh> Don't get me wrong, though -- I know I'm a minor player on a larger
field, and I'm humble enough to realize that... still, I did make it to the
field, which I'm hoping will count for something. :)

>Above all other websites, check the Dark Horse one (which I think is
>www.darkhorsecomics.com or something like that) as it will contain their
>submission guidelines.

See, I believe Dark Horse's submission guidelines vary from license to
license, unlike other comics companies who published primarily their own
titles. I don't think the rules I had to follow on the "Star Wars" license
would necessarily be the same for, say, the "Apes" license. I plan to
check with Dark Horse but thought I'd see if anyone here knew first since
this is a pretty knowledgeable group. Thanks for your assistance, Alan!

>Best of luck!

Thanks! :)

>From: "Jack Krueger" <williejoe@...>
>Subject: Re: Greetings!
>Hi Rich, welcome

Grazi, Jack!

>(is that just your name or a description of your financial
>status? If it's the latter, you're my new best friend.

Oh, I truly wish it were my financial status, my friend, but most magazine
editors don't exactly live like the upper-class. <grin>

>Once again, "A Date With Judy" is actually the episode "An Unearthly
>Prophecy", it's not an original story.

Oh, okay -- that's odd, I've seen a lot of sites claiming it's an original
story. I guess they got it wrong.

>Dark Horse is going monthly with their "Apes" comics but it remains to be
>seen how popular they become. If they do there will probably be miniseries,
>etc. I'd love to see them do some Classic Apes stuff, since Burton's world
>is very limited. But I'm enjoying the comics better than the movie.

I agree -- I really wish they'd do classic material as well. That's what
I'd prefer to write, in fact. I'm a real fan of the Marvel and Adventure
stories, and I miss having new tales set in that era.

>From: locutusatwolf359@...
>Subject: Re: Greetings!
>Hi! Welcome to the group! What are some of the issues of comics or books

that

>you have written or worked on? I would love to read some! Let me know!

Thanks!

Hi, Locust -- thanks for the kind words! This group is already turning out
to be a nicer bunch than those on the "ape" list. As for my work, let's
see... well, in addition to the above magazines and comics, I've written
"Star Wars" fiction for West End Games' "Star Wars Role-Playing Game" (and
possibly soon for "Star Wars Gamer" magazine). I've also done articles for
"Cinefantastique," "Toons," and "Sci-Fi Invasion," and I helped Ann Lewis
complete her book "Star Wars: The Essential Guide to Alien Species." Most
of my other writing was in the newspaper field, and at the magazine I edit,
"Advanced Imaging." Oh, and I have a horror story coming out any month now
in a paperback anthology called "Breaking Boundaries" (which you can check
out at breakingboundariesbook.com if you're interested). Thanks for your
interest -- I appreciate that!

Hey Rich - - -

Are you a "fan" of those other licenses you wrote for, and if so where does
"Apes" fit on the scale?

- - - - Jeff
"Jack" K.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Handley" <rhandley@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 4:42 PM
Subject: Re: [pota] Digest Number 660


> >From: "Alan Maxwell" <alan@...>
> >Subject: Re: Greetings!
> >Yep, it's not very good. I can't understand why there are so many groups.
> >Pointless.
>
> Exactly. This seems to be a cooler group, based on the few emails I've
> gotten so far. Over in that other group, there are a handful of trolls
> just waiting to insult you the moment you express an opinion they don't
> agree with. Plus, you get a lot of "you're not a TRUE fan" crap over
> there, whatever the hell a "true" fan is.
>
> >That would be Return to the Planet of the Apes #1 ("Visions from
Nowhere")
> >by William Arrow, probably the most common of the three books based on
the
> >animated series. You should be able to locate a copy either through ebay
or
> >somewhere like http://www.abebooks.com/.
>
> Cool, thanks.
>
> >First off, I'd say you've got next to no chance. Sorry, I thought I'd
better
> >get that in straight away! Breaking into comics is exceptionally
difficult
> >anyway, moreso if you're a writer.
>
> I appreciate the candor. :)
>
> >Also, companies are not likely to accept unsolicited proposals of
> >stories for their more popular titles or licenced titles. Also, Dark
> >Horse is notoriously difficult for a writer to break into.
>
> All very true!
>
> >This is not to say you should give up however. For one thing, you have
said
> >that you are a writer and editor - this will help. Moreso since you've
> >worked on other such licences. More importantly, you say you have done
work
> >for Dark Horse before. This is always a good advantage, but it will
depend
> >on what sort of work. Certainly you appear to have a better chance than a
> >lot of people.
>
> That's what I'm hoping. I've done some comic work already -- I co-wrote a
> "Star Wars" comic with Darko Macan for Dark Horse's "Star Wars Tales" #3
> and also did some behind-the-scenes work on "Classic Star Wars: A Long
Time
> Ago" #1-6. I was an associate editor on Realm Press "Battlestar
Galactica"
> and Andromeda Press's "First Wave," and I've also written comics columns
> for "Star Wars Galaxy Collector," "Star Wars Insider," "Star Wars Gamer,"
> and "Star Trek Communicator." I was SUPPOSED to write a ""Star Trek"
> script for Wildstorm last year, but it got cut for budgetary reasons.
> <sigh> Don't get me wrong, though -- I know I'm a minor player on a
larger
> field, and I'm humble enough to realize that... still, I did make it to
the
> field, which I'm hoping will count for something. :)
>
> >Above all other websites, check the Dark Horse one (which I think is
> >www.darkhorsecomics.com or something like that) as it will contain their
> >submission guidelines.
>
> See, I believe Dark Horse's submission guidelines vary from license to
> license, unlike other comics companies who published primarily their own
> titles. I don't think the rules I had to follow on the "Star Wars"
license
> would necessarily be the same for, say, the "Apes" license. I plan to
> check with Dark Horse but thought I'd see if anyone here knew first since
> this is a pretty knowledgeable group. Thanks for your assistance, Alan!
>
> >Best of luck!
>
> Thanks! :)
>
> >From: "Jack Krueger" <williejoe@...>
> >Subject: Re: Greetings!
> >Hi Rich, welcome
>
> Grazi, Jack!
>
> >(is that just your name or a description of your financial
> >status? If it's the latter, you're my new best friend.
>
> Oh, I truly wish it were my financial status, my friend, but most magazine
> editors don't exactly live like the upper-class. <grin>
>
> >Once again, "A Date With Judy" is actually the episode "An Unearthly
> >Prophecy", it's not an original story.
>
> Oh, okay -- that's odd, I've seen a lot of sites claiming it's an original
> story. I guess they got it wrong.
>
> >Dark Horse is going monthly with their "Apes" comics but it remains to be
> >seen how popular they become. If they do there will probably be
miniseries,
> >etc. I'd love to see them do some Classic Apes stuff, since Burton's
world
> >is very limited. But I'm enjoying the comics better than the movie.
>
> I agree -- I really wish they'd do classic material as well. That's what
> I'd prefer to write, in fact. I'm a real fan of the Marvel and Adventure
> stories, and I miss having new tales set in that era.
>
> >From: locutusatwolf359@...
> >Subject: Re: Greetings!
> >Hi! Welcome to the group! What are some of the issues of comics or books
> that
> >you have written or worked on? I would love to read some! Let me know!
> Thanks!
>
> Hi, Locust -- thanks for the kind words! This group is already turning
out
> to be a nicer bunch than those on the "ape" list. As for my work, let's
> see... well, in addition to the above magazines and comics, I've written
> "Star Wars" fiction for West End Games' "Star Wars Role-Playing Game" (and
> possibly soon for "Star Wars Gamer" magazine). I've also done articles
for
> "Cinefantastique," "Toons," and "Sci-Fi Invasion," and I helped Ann Lewis
> complete her book "Star Wars: The Essential Guide to Alien Species." Most
> of my other writing was in the newspaper field, and at the magazine I
edit,
> "Advanced Imaging." Oh, and I have a horror story coming out any month
now
> in a paperback anthology called "Breaking Boundaries" (which you can check
> out at breakingboundariesbook.com if you're interested). Thanks for your
> interest -- I appreciate that!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

<< Over in that other group, there are a handful of trolls just waiting to
insult you the moment you express an opinion they don't agree with. >>


Most of our insults are good-natured jabs, meant to elicit laughter rather
than anger. As a fellow former members of the Ape group I hope you help
recruit the deserving to this group, so we're all one happy Ape family.

"Unite us! Unite the Clans!"
~Mel Gibson as Sir William Wallace in Braveheart~

.htmlI have two address -Fox cosumer video po box 7849 Torrance Ca.90504 Put attn:
Planet of the apes! second address Fox Home entertainment -Po box 900 Beverly
Hills Ca.90213 I wrote to both maybe we will get word in october that a dvd
set will be in the works for Return to Planet apes .10 letters are on the way
from friends of mine .we can do it again.Fox wants to cash in.Bryan<.html

T- - -

You actually LIKED "Braveheart"?? You worthless piece of crap. You wouldn't
know a good movie if Zanuck pointed it out to you!


- - - Rory

----- Original Message -----
From: <LordTZer0@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: [pota] Digest Number 660


> << Over in that other group, there are a handful of trolls just waiting to
> insult you the moment you express an opinion they don't agree with. >>
>
>
> Most of our insults are good-natured jabs, meant to elicit laughter rather
> than anger. As a fellow former members of the Ape group I hope you help
> recruit the deserving to this group, so we're all one happy Ape family.
>
> "Unite us! Unite the Clans!"
> ~Mel Gibson as Sir William Wallace in Braveheart~
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

X-Mailer: CommuniGate Pro Web Mailer v.3.2
Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 17:29:52 -0700
Message-ID: <web-8619934@...>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

>
>And while we're at it, how did they transport the Alpha Omega bomb from 'North
>America' to it's final resting place in New York in Beneath?

New York is in 'North America'.

>Unless the events o
>f Conquest were meant to be set in New York.

Or a nearby city. The whole area is mostly urban and suburban.

X-Mailer: CommuniGate Pro Web Mailer v.3.2
Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 17:38:35 -0700
Message-ID: <web-8619978@...>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

>From: "Alan Maxwell" <alan@...>
>Subject: Re: Greetings!
>Yep, it's not very good. I can't understand why there are so many groups.
>Pointless.

What is this 'other group' I keep hearing about?

-Tom

.htmlIn a message dated 9/1/01 6:54:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, LordTZer0@...
writes:

<< Not only that, but it was a tear of blood. In my mind there was no doubt
that
it was a tear of sorrow. >>

You bet it was...he was looking ahead to the future treatment of Apes by
the
schlock-meisters at Fox!

No, he was crying because Arthur Jacobs had just died.

-- Rory<.html

>From: "Jack Krueger" <williejoe@...>
>Subject: Re: Aldo in CONQUEST
>It was a "holy weapon of peace" in the "Planet" timeline, not
>the "Battle" timeline. Here, let Rory explain it to you.

Ah, someone who agrees with me that there are two timelines at work here --
possibly more.

>From: Ken & Heather Taylor <kentaylor@...>
>Subject: Re: Aldo in CONQUEST
>And while we're at it, how did they transport the Alpha Omega bomb from

'North

>America' to it's final resting place in New York in Beneath? Unless the

events of

>Conquest were meant to be set in New York.

That's the confusing part -- whether the mutants or Caesar's group, someone
made a trip across the country for reasons unknown. Given that a nuclear
weapon wouldn't normally be kept in St. Patrick's Cathedral, I tend to
think that after the events of the fifth film, Mendez's mutants decided to
leave Caesar's city behind and traveled across the country to NY, where
they put the bomb in St. Patrick's and began building their truly bizarre
society.

>From: "Jack Krueger" <williejoe@...>
>Subject: Re: Digest Number 660
>Hey Rich - - -
>Are you a "fan" of those other licenses you wrote for, and if so where does
>"Apes" fit on the scale?

Well, it varies, depending on a couple of factors: what day it is, what I
ate for breakfast that morning, whether or not the Moon is in the Southern
House and Jupiter is alligned with Mars, and when the last time I made love
to my wife was that week. :) I'm a long-time fan of "Trek" (primarily TOS
and TNG) and "Star Wars," about on par with "Apes" though my interest in
both franchises has waned greatly in recent years due to what I see as a
change from quality stories to quantity. As such, "Apes" and James Bond,
my other avid interest, have taken the forefront. Ironically, although I
helped out on the "First Wave" comic, I'm not a fan of the show -- that was
admittedly just a job for me. "Galactica" is also a big interest of mine,
but a far more recent addition than the others.

>From: LordTZer0@...
>Subject: Re: Digest Number 660
><< Over in that other group, there are a handful of trolls just waiting to
>insult you the moment you express an opinion they don't agree with. >>
>Most of our insults are good-natured jabs, meant to elicit laughter rather
>than anger. As a fellow former members of the Ape group I hope you help
>recruit the deserving to this group, so we're all one happy Ape family.

Works for me. :)

>From: "Jack Krueger" <williejoe@...>
>Subject: Re: Digest Number 660
>You actually LIKED "Braveheart"?? You worthless piece of crap. You wouldn't
>know a good movie if Zanuck pointed it out to you!

LOL! Yep, that's what it's like on the other group. :)

>From: "Melkor" <melkor@...>
>Subject: Re: Aldo in CONQUEST
>New York is in 'North America'.

Heh heh heh... I couldn't bring myself to say that. :)

>What is this 'other group' I keep hearing about?

ape@yahoogroups.com. An odd mix of trolls more interested in fighting than
discussing POTA, and elitist fans who think they know everything about POTA
and that no one who disagrees with them is a "true" fan. Not a fun place.

.htmlIn a message dated 9/1/01 7:18:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
kentaylor@... writes:

And while we're at it, how did they transport the Alpha Omega bomb from
'North
America' to it's final resting place in New York in Beneath? Unless the
events of
Conquest were meant to be set in New York.
And how come at the beginning of Conquest Caesar ( or was he still Milo
then? )
wears his regular APE feet shoes yet when he joins the slaves he changes to
regular human-shaped slip ons and socks?
I agree with LordT, as fun as it may be to hypothesize about the
inconsistencies,
they are just that. Trying to make sense of nonsense will drive you insane.
I
couldn't even be bothered trying to make sense of the new movie's ending as
I
just didn't care enough to bother. The makers of the film were desperate to
have
a 'shock' ending to TRY to top the original but didn't give the audience any
credit by making it a plausible ending.
Best,
KEN

Haven't we been through this before?  Some say CONQUEST and BATTLE took place
on the west coast, BUT I say they took place on in the east in part of a
megalopolis that spread from Boston to below Washington D.C.

I also say the the body of water Taylor crashlands into in PLANET is
Chesapeake Bay.    The only location flaw in the film series is Brent going
into a subway station that's in Queens, NY.   Talk about your
inconsistencies!   In the first film Ape City is way south of New York.   
Why?   Because they traveled east to the Atlatic to get the Cornelius' cave
on the shore, then Taylor rode north and found the Statue of Liberty.  After
that he rode further north to get captured by the mutants.

Okay, I'm spent here.  What were we talking about?

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/1/01 7:25:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

Zanuck said the combination of Burton and "Apes" spelled magic for him. He
can't spell either!                  - - - Jeff

It spelled magic for his wallet.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/1/01 7:34:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
rhandley@... writes:

Exactly.  This seems to be a cooler group, based on the few emails I've
gotten so far.  Over in that other group, there are a handful of trolls
just waiting to insult you the moment you express an opinion they don't
agree with.  Plus, you get a lot of "you're not a TRUE fan" crap over
there, whatever the hell a "true" fan is.

Oh, we had that happen over here.  Wasn't it about five months ago, Alex?

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/1/01 8:26:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
williejoe@... writes:

 T- - -

You actually LIKED "Braveheart"?? You worthless piece of crap. You wouldn't
know a good movie if Zanuck pointed it out to you!

                                                                           
- - - Rory

Hey Krueger!!!  I never call people worthless pieces of crap, just the movies
they like.   No, wait a minute. . . Oh, never mind.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/1/01 9:20:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
rhandley@... writes:

That's the confusing part -- whether the mutants or Caesar's group, someone
made a trip across the country for reasons unknown.  Given that a nuclear
weapon wouldn't normally be kept in St. Patrick's Cathedral, I tend to
think that after the events of the fifth film, Mendez's mutants decided to
leave Caesar's city behind and traveled across the country to NY, where
they put the bomb in St. Patrick's and began building their truly bizarre
society.

No!  No!  No!   I just explained it.  CONQUEST and BATTLE took place in the
eastern United States, not the west coast.  And please don't tell me they did
because Marvel said so!!!    Marvel be damned!!   It makes no sense that
these mutants -- who couldn't go out in the sunlight -- dragged a bomb all
the way across the country.  That's almost as silly as the new movie.

You'll back me up won't you, Jeff?  Old pal.

-- Rory

-- Rory<.html

.html

Zanuck liked the basic idea to a point. But he's a credit hog. He makes it sound like he sheperded the original but according to Joe Russo's book Fox considered "Apes" a vanity project. They listened to Jacobs only because they wanted other movies from him. At one point Zanuck took a meeting and said "Swear to me, no "Apes!" Mort Abrahams swore this would be the last time and Zanuck gave him 5 minutes and the grosses for "Fantastic Voyage" were brought up. This was after the makeup test that SUPPOSEDLY sold the project but didn't.  "Fantastic Voyage" saved "Apes". After that ,Abrahams says Zanuck "stuck his neck out" at the board meeting and got it a go. Yes, Zanuck deserves some credit but he ignored the contributions of Arthur and Mort, the real heroes of "Apes" and I'll never forgive Zanuck for shutting Natalie Trundy out. And no, he didn't know what made "Apes" works and I hope he enjoyed the reviews and the lack of repeat business. Not that he cares, he got his share.                                                                               - - - - Jeff

 

Well that's just cold reality of life Jeff.

Never the less all credit is still given to Jacobs even to this day.

Zanuck is one tough S.O.B. but it's people like that that gets things done.

 

And not this joke we call 20th Century Fox Today.

I personally admire the man.

A ball busting get things done type of guy. (I can relate to that)

 

Best.

Al

 <.html

.html <.html

Hey there, and welcome to the group!

My name's Joe. I'm the 'kid' (as Rory likes to say) here being only 15.
I've been growing up with APES all my life, so I'm not a 'newbie'. Meh.
Anyway, I look forward to discussing different things here with you. Have a
nice stay. ;)

-Joe.

<< You actually LIKED "Braveheart"?? You worthless piece of crap. You wouldn't
know a good movie if Zanuck pointed it out to you! >>

Rory, can't I go for a bit of reference humor without you assuming I like
everything I make a reference to, you syphilitic butt monkey!?!

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Alexander Ruiz

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 7:10 PM

Subject: [pota] Re: A Contradicting World

Well that's just cold reality of life Jeff.

Never the less all credit is still given to Jacobs even to this day.

Zanuck is one tough S.O.B. but it's people like that that gets things done.

 

And not this joke we call 20th Century Fox Today.

I personally admire the man.

A ball busting get things done type of guy. (I can relate to that)

 

Best.

Al

 

 

Oh and if I'm not mistaken. Jacobs was a major BALL BUSTER himself. Even worst than Zanuck. Which only goes to show that not everyone is so inocent. The last inocent man on earth was nailed to a cross 2000 years ago...so they say.

 

Best,

Al

 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 6:40 PM

Subject: Re: [pota] Digest Number 661

In a message dated 9/1/01 9:20:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
rhandley@... writes:

That's the confusing part -- whether the mutants or Caesar's group, someone
made a trip across the country for reasons unknown.  Given that a nuclear
weapon wouldn't normally be kept in St. Patrick's Cathedral, I tend to
think that after the events of the fifth film, Mendez's mutants decided to
leave Caesar's city behind and traveled across the country to NY, where
they put the bomb in St. Patrick's and began building their truly bizarre
society.

No!  No!  No!   I just explained it.  CONQUEST and BATTLE took place in the
eastern United States, not the west coast.  And please don't tell me they did
because Marvel said so!!!    Marvel be damned!!   It makes no sense that
these mutants -- who couldn't go out in the sunlight -- dragged a bomb all
the way across the country.  That's almost as silly as the new movie.

You'll back me up won't you, Jeff?  Old pal.

-- Rory

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

"Star Trek": who could wade through all those series? But the upcoming
"Enterprise" looks interesting; "Star Wars": Looks like it'll get back on
track with "Episode 2"; "Battlestar Galactica: Please!; "First Wave": what
the hell's
- - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Handley" <rhandley@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 6:29 PM
Subject: Re: [pota] Digest Number 661


> >From: "Jack Krueger" <williejoe@...>
> >Subject: Re: Aldo in CONQUEST
> >It was a "holy weapon of peace" in the "Planet" timeline, not
> >the "Battle" timeline. Here, let Rory explain it to you.
>
> Ah, someone who agrees with me that there are two timelines at work
here --
> possibly more.
>
> >From: Ken & Heather Taylor <kentaylor@...>
> >Subject: Re: Aldo in CONQUEST
> >And while we're at it, how did they transport the Alpha Omega bomb from
> 'North
> >America' to it's final resting place in New York in Beneath? Unless the
> events of
> >Conquest were meant to be set in New York.
>
> That's the confusing part -- whether the mutants or Caesar's group,
someone
> made a trip across the country for reasons unknown. Given that a nuclear
> weapon wouldn't normally be kept in St. Patrick's Cathedral, I tend to
> think that after the events of the fifth film, Mendez's mutants decided to
> leave Caesar's city behind and traveled across the country to NY, where
> they put the bomb in St. Patrick's and began building their truly bizarre
> society.
>
> >From: "Jack Krueger" <williejoe@...>
> >Subject: Re: Digest Number 660
> >Hey Rich - - -
> >Are you a "fan" of those other licenses you wrote for, and if so where
does
> >"Apes" fit on the scale?
>
> Well, it varies, depending on a couple of factors: what day it is, what I
> ate for breakfast that morning, whether or not the Moon is in the Southern
> House and Jupiter is alligned with Mars, and when the last time I made
love
> to my wife was that week. :) I'm a long-time fan of "Trek" (primarily
TOS
> and TNG) and "Star Wars," about on par with "Apes" though my interest in
> both franchises has waned greatly in recent years due to what I see as a
> change from quality stories to quantity. As such, "Apes" and James Bond,
> my other avid interest, have taken the forefront. Ironically, although I
> helped out on the "First Wave" comic, I'm not a fan of the show -- that
was
> admittedly just a job for me. "Galactica" is also a big interest of mine,
> but a far more recent addition than the others.
>
> >From: LordTZer0@...
> >Subject: Re: Digest Number 660
> ><< Over in that other group, there are a handful of trolls just waiting
to
> >insult you the moment you express an opinion they don't agree with. >>
> >Most of our insults are good-natured jabs, meant to elicit laughter
rather
> >than anger. As a fellow former members of the Ape group I hope you help
> >recruit the deserving to this group, so we're all one happy Ape family.
>
> Works for me. :)
>
> >From: "Jack Krueger" <williejoe@...>
> >Subject: Re: Digest Number 660
> >You actually LIKED "Braveheart"?? You worthless piece of crap. You
wouldn't
> >know a good movie if Zanuck pointed it out to you!
>
> LOL! Yep, that's what it's like on the other group. :)
>
> >From: "Melkor" <melkor@...>
> >Subject: Re: Aldo in CONQUEST
> >New York is in 'North America'.
>
> Heh heh heh... I couldn't bring myself to say that. :)
>
> >What is this 'other group' I keep hearing about?
>
> ape@yahoogroups.com. An odd mix of trolls more interested in fighting
than
> discussing POTA, and elitist fans who think they know everything about
POTA
> and that no one who disagrees with them is a "true" fan. Not a fun place.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Hey Krueger!!! I never call people worthless pieces of crap, just the
movies
they like. No, wait a minute. . . Oh, never mind.

-- Rory >>

> You actually LIKED "Braveheart"?? You worthless piece of crap. You wouldn't
> know a good movie if Zanuck pointed it out to you!

Hey Krueger!!! I never call people worthless pieces of crap, just the
movies
they like. No, wait a minute. . . Oh, never mind.

-- Rory >>

Oh was that Jeff? Sorry Rory. It just sounded like something you'd say.

In a message dated 9/1/01 9:04:40 PM Central Daylight Time,
prophecysite@... writes:

<< Even worst than Zanuck. Which only goes to show that not everyone is so
inocent. >>

That's what Burton's problem is...He's too nice. He has to throw a shitfit
just to get the studio to sit up and take notice. He could use a few acting
lessons himself just to keep them at bay. Then he might have gotten them to
back off until Xmas and we'd all have a better movie to watch.

.html <.html

No offense, T. I haven't even seen "Braveheart". I was just providing a
little infighting to make Rich feel at home.

- - - - T's pal
Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: <LordTZer0@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2001 11:58 PM
Subject: Re: [pota] Digest Number 660


> > You actually LIKED "Braveheart"?? You worthless piece of crap. You
wouldn't
> > know a good movie if Zanuck pointed it out to you!
>
> Hey Krueger!!! I never call people worthless pieces of crap, just the
> movies
> they like. No, wait a minute. . . Oh, never mind.
>
> -- Rory >>
>
> Oh was that Jeff? Sorry Rory. It just sounded like something you'd say.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I think that's what Burton's doing now. Playing hardball to get more
creative control. Of course that doesn't mean he'll make the best use of it
once he gets it.


- - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: <LordTZer0@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 12:03 AM
Subject: Re: [pota] Re: A Contradicting World


> In a message dated 9/1/01 9:04:40 PM Central Daylight Time,
> prophecysite@... writes:
>
> << Even worst than Zanuck. Which only goes to show that not everyone is
so
> inocent. >>
>
> That's what Burton's problem is...He's too nice. He has to throw a
shitfit
> just to get the studio to sit up and take notice. He could use a few
acting
> lessons himself just to keep them at bay. Then he might have gotten them
to
> back off until Xmas and we'd all have a better movie to watch.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Alexander Ruiz

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 12:13 AM

Subject: [pota] May Justice be served!

P.S. I admire Zanuck too, to a certain extent.

 

 

As all things of course. May Justice be served.

 

Just uploaded an exclusive with Mark Wahlberg:

He talks about the Planet of the Apes ending, Tim Burton and the sequel as well as his own plans for the sequel. This real player file also contains Walhberg and Heston at the premiere together...pretty cool.

 

www.calima5021.com/latest-news.htm

 

Best.

Al

 

P.S. Didn't mean to sound so hard on Eric Greene's review but all this comparing between Classic and Remake is really getting out of hand. Both films have their own imperfections so i just set the record straight.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

<< No offense, T. I haven't even seen "Braveheart". I was just providing a
little infighting to make Rich feel at home. >>

None taken. I thought as much. Back at ya!
But, if you must know...I did enjoy Braveheart.
Not only does it have infighting... But any film with
decapitations, can't be all bad. Pardon my reference, but...

Freeeeeeedooooommmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!

<< I think that's what Burton's doing now. Playing hardball to get more
creative control. Of course that doesn't mean he'll make the best use of it
once he gets it. >>

That sounds like Burton's style...passive agressive.
He just needs someone with a mean streak to run interference for him.
Someone like mmmm......... me!

Thanks for geography lesson gang. I was actually being facetious.
Sorry...next topic?

I have a bone to pick with you Alex. While I do appreciate the work you done
on the site. And I did enjoy the new film, (okay, maybe not as much as I
might have liked, but I've probably seen it more times than you have), I
don't appreciate comments like this one.

<<. If it's one thing I liked most about Tim Burton's Apes, these Ape-Actors
gave a much more convincing performance apposed to the original Ape-Actors of
'68. >>

The original ape actors were supposed to do the monkey shines! Those apes
were more like people who happened to look like apes! And I found their
performances totally convincing for what they were supposed to be!
Rory, back me!

By the way you misspelled opposed. You should be more careful about what you
publish. Even if it is only on the Internet.

The POTA episode of SNL with Chuckles Heston was on Comedy Central today.
I'm glad I got to see it. The QuickTime clip just doesn't do it justice.
But what bad Ape makeup's! Brian, couldn't you have given them a few pointer?
Or at least some decent hair goods...Heston's beard looked good anyway. I
know how important those beards are to him.

I think Heston supplied his own 'hair goods' which I think he may have nabbed from
George Burns or Rip Taylor.

LordTZer0@... wrote:

> The POTA episode of SNL with Chuckles Heston was on Comedy Central today.
> I'm glad I got to see it. The QuickTime clip just doesn't do it justice.
> But what bad Ape makeup's! Brian, couldn't you have given them a few pointer?
> Or at least some decent hair goods...Heston's beard looked good anyway. I
> know how important those beards are to him.
>
>
>
>
>

In a message dated 9/2/01 3:55:05 AM Central Daylight Time,
kentaylor@... writes:

<< I think Heston supplied his own 'hair goods' which I think he may have
nabbed from George Burns or Rip Taylor. >>

Now that's just uncalled for.
You know, John Wayne, was bald too.

.html In a message dated 9/1/01 9:20:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
rhandley@... writes:

That's the confusing part -- whether the mutants or Caesar's group, someone
made a trip across the country for reasons unknown.  Given that a nuclear
weapon wouldn't normally be kept in St. Patrick's Cathedral, I tend to
think that after the events of the fifth film, Mendez's mutants decided to
leave Caesar's city behind and traveled across the country to NY, where
they put the bomb in St. Patrick's and began building their truly bizarre
society.

No!  No!  No!   I just explained it.  CONQUEST and BATTLE took place in the
eastern United States, not the west coast.  And please don't tell me they did
because Marvel said so!!!    Marvel be damned!!   It makes no sense that
these mutants -- who couldn't go out in the sunlight -- dragged a bomb all
the way across the country.  That's almost as silly as the new movie.

You'll back me up won't you, Jeff?  Old pal.

-- Rory

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .
<.html