> I've seen it -- of course, I've damn near seen everything -- it's weak but
> not all that bad. Vincent Price is no Charlton Heston, though. If you

> find the book it's well worth reading, and I'm sure they'll f*** it up

> Will Smith as the star. Good God!

> I'm noticing other things too, like Roddy's gloves, the extensive use of
> his double and some truly shoddy makeup. These were shot for the TVs of

> day and I'm sure they had no idea the shows would be "collected" and
> scrutinized on DVD ("whatever that is").

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Maxwell" <alan@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 3:01 PM
Subject: Re: [pota] Use your reimagination!


> Rory <Haristas@...> wrote:
> > "I Am Legend" is an excellent book. I can imagine it being filmed
> > faithfully, but they won't do it. Filmed faithfully I see it as a black
> and
> > white movie, very much like a Twilight Zone episode.
>
> Yep, Twilight Zone indeed. But it's not easy to see them making a film in
> which the main character would primarily have to talk to himself (they'd
> have to introduce something like the bust Heston spoke to in The Omega
Man).
>
> One thing's for certain, it's not the sort of film you'll get from Michael
> Bay, that's for sure.
>
> Alan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Maxwell" <alan@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 3:06 PM
Subject: [pota] Books


> Rory <Haristas@...> wrote:
> > I've seen it -- of course, I've damn near seen everything -- it's weak
but
> > not all that bad. Vincent Price is no Charlton Heston, though. If you
> can
> > find the book it's well worth reading, and I'm sure they'll f*** it up
> will
> > Will Smith as the star. Good God!
>
> The book was re-released in the UK not so long ago, as part of the "SF
> Masterworks" series, so shouldn't be too hard to find.
>
> But back to Planet of the Apes - I meant to mention this ages ago, but
> forgot. I just wanted to mention how cool it is that Boulle's novel is now
> available as a "Penguin Classic" and also that the cover is more in
keeping
> with its status as a "classic novel" rather than a film-related book. The
> cover is just a picture of an ape, rather than anything from or inspired
by
> the film.
>
> Alan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----

From: mlccougar@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 6:14 PM

Subject: Re: [pota] Hey Veetus!

In a message dated 11/20/2001 11:01:39 PM Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

Bill watched some of the TV eps on DVD with me and gave me a lot of tid bits as we watched. He pointed out when Roddy's double, Ron Stein, was on screen, which was a lot (including full face and even a word or two).

I do not knowthe man's name, but I am pretty sure Ron Stein was not McDowall's double. For one, Stein is stockier than that chimp double that is used in the Galen "action" scenes (running, etc..). Stein was a gorilla in many  episodes, including "The Trap", which coincidentally has both Stein and the Galen double in it. Now how can he be McDowall's double and a gorilla at the same time?? I am not saying I am right or anything here, but I am pretty sure Ron wasn't Roddy's double.

But, it is certain that Stein was an Ape and a human. He was, as you say, "fulll face" in "The Surgeon" episode as Lafer...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

----- Original Message -----

From: Lynne Miller

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 6:30 PM

Subject: Re: [pota] POTA 2?

Me, too!  I really can't remember seeing them in the theatre at this time....all I remember is seeing Escape on TV.  Why couldn't they have released them before the new one came out?  I'm wondering who is doing the marketing for this now..the toys are crap, there was absolutely no tie-ins to clutter my shelf...Harry Potter is getting more tie-ins, and has been for months!

Lynne (feeling cheated..or should I?)

>From: mlccougar@...

>Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com

>To: pota@yahoogroups.com

>Subject: Re: [pota] POTA 2?

>Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 20:05:28 EST

>

>In a message dated 11/15/2001 1:42:37 PM Central Standard Time,

>Artessatwork@... writes:

>

>

> > So, why not just rerelease the original POTA, all 5, if necessary?.

> >

>

>I'm with you on this one........

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 3:50 AM

Subject: Re: [pota] Hey Veetus!

In a message dated 11/21/01 12:01:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

 Bill watched some of the TV eps on DVD with me and gave me a lot of tid bits as we watched. He pointed out when Roddy's double, Ron Stein, was on screen, which was a lot (including full face and even a word or two). He's familiar with the Fox Ranch and pointed out when the rock where Caesar had the council meeting in "Battle" was in the background. Most of the episodes had the same village redressed but the "Good Seeds" farm was separate. Bill had a field day with the farm apes' makeup because of the varied quality. He pointed out that the BART set in "The Trap" had set pieces from the 'Ape Management' in "Conquest" and "Battle".  The ship was boiler plate metal not "plywood" (a pet peeve of his). In "The Gladiator" it's the same arena used in the first 2 flicks which stayed around until the late '70's. The series added to it including the holding area for the combatants and an arch in the front. The arena was also used as the entrance to the 'Mountain City' in the 1977 pilot to the "Logan's Run" TV show. They went to Universal to shoot the destroyed city in "The Trap" 'cause that's where they had filmed "Earthquake".

The brown insert on Roddy's chimp suit wasn't leather like the other chimps', it was vinyl (Roddy McDowall #1).

                                                        - - - - Jeff

Excellent inside info there.  Fox should have hired him to do a running commentary for each episode.  (Cheap Fox bastards!)   I remember being able to spot Roddy's double all the time on the TV show AND in BATTLE.  Roddy also refused most of the time during the show to have his hands made up, so you'll notice he's wearing hairy gloves.  I can't believe that the arena part of Ape City stood from 1967 until the late seventies.  I wish it was still there.  Has Bill seen the Bank America commercial that's currently running that shows a bunch of kids at the rock pool where Taylor took his dip in PLANET?  Anyone else here spotted it?

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

----- Original Message -----

From: Lynne Miller

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 7:43 PM

Subject: Re: [pota] Ending

That got me thinking....Lady Liberty with a  chimps face....and I still hate the ending...Thades face on the Memorial....All I can see on the new one is EGO.   The original, they were afraid of being laughed at, the reimagining...I don't think the thought ever entered the picture.  They were going for the almighty dollar no matter how many people they ticked off.  It was made to be a block-buster summer attractions movie, nothing more, I don't think.  I do have both the movie and the tv series, got them both yesterday...love all the extras....and haven't gotten much sleep...

Lynne

>From: "Michael Whitty"

>Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com

>To:

>Subject: [pota] Ending

>Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 09:39:26 +1100

>

>Yeah, and it is silly.

>

>And the original would have been silly if Liberty had a chimp face too.

>

>I mean, how did the chimp face get there?

>

>Is it just a coincidence that Thade wore the same clothes as Lincoln and

>somebody decided to erect a monument in the same place with all the same

>Washington landmark coincidentally built by apes. What a crock!

>

>I'm still struggling to allow that to make sense.

>

>I guess if Thade landed in a post germ warfare earth and took over from

>there it could work but nothing much else in the film was explained, so I

>doubt they will explain this any better.

>

>The ending is silly (but I hope, as usual, that I am proven wrong).

>

>Michael

>

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: LordTZer0@... [LordTZer0@...]

> > Sent: Saturday, 17 November 2001 19:10

> > To: pota@yahoogroups.com

> > Subject: Re: [pota] Re: POTA 2?

> >

> >

> > Hmm... I didn't feel that way. I thought it was a good ending,

> > either way.

> > I knew it was going to be something jarring, but I didn't make

> > any connection

> >

> > to the book until AFTER I saw the ending, and I had already gone

> > through the

> > surprise

> >

> > Well, then you're lucky. I heard Michael Clark Duncan saying on

> > the special

> > you're gonna be so surprise. And then when I saw it I was like, Oh, the

> > ending from the book. So the only surprise was that they went for that

> > ending whenI thought they were going to do something off the

> > wall. It's not

> > a bad ending. It just didn't have the impact on me that the

> > first movie did.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

> >

> >

> >

>

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 10:27 PM

Subject: Re: [pota] POTA 2?

I saw the shot glasses.

It's just not the same.  I wanted my Ape meal w/fries.  And an Ape drink!
Although whenever I think how they wussed out and made a half-assed PG-13 Apes movie It does make me want to drink.  How about an Apes cocktail shaker?


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

veetus@... wrote:

  The Japanese got some nice bottle caps for their Pepsi. They have all the luck. We Americans only get generic crap.                                           - - - - Jeff  

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 10:27 PM

Subject: Re: [pota] POTA 2?

 

I saw the shot glasses.

It's just not the same.  I wanted my Ape meal w/fries.  And an Ape drink!
Although whenever I think how they wussed out and made a half-assed PG-13 Apes movie It does make me want to drink.  How about an Apes cocktail shaker?
 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

> No, the US set isn't anamorphic, but I understand Region 4 DVDs of APES

> and now I guess is the region that Britian is in.

> I think Region 4 is South America because where I read this was when

> in Argentina was saying they have it in anamorphic. I think I read it in

> of the reviews for POTA posted on IMDB.COM.

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 3:23 AM

Subject: Re: [pota] "Cure"iouser and curiouser

In a message dated 11/21/01 5:53:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

 I'm noticing other things too, like Roddy's gloves, the extensive use of
his double and some truly shoddy makeup. These were shot for the TVs of the
day and I'm sure they had no idea the shows would be "collected" and
scrutinized on DVD ("whatever that is").                              - - -
Jeff

I think one of the reasons you see so much of Roddy's double is because the show was shot in the summer.  It must have been miserably hot.  The shoddy makeup was because first they didn't have budgets big enough, though the show was the most expensive on the air at the time, and they didn't have time to do lifemasks and sculpt appliances for each actor.  A guy playing an orangutan could have on James Whitmore's nose and Woodrow Parfrey's chin.  However, every so often there'd be a great makeup.  Check out Jay Robinson's 'Bandor' in "Tomorrow's Tide."

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

LordTZer0@... wrote:

In a message dated 11/22/2001 7:00:29 AM Central Standard Time, alan@... writes:
 
 

Nope, Britain's Region 2

Region 4 must be Japan then.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

> Happy Thanksgiving, fellow Yanks!
>
> A little birdie (uncooked) told me my name was being bandied about
> here. Sorry for my long absence. I'm still waiting for my TV DVDs to
> show up, but I can wait as the DVD player ain't coming till Xmas.
> Meanwhile, couldn't see this posted here yet -- Ain't It Cool News
> has a rather in-depth review of the collection that's worth the read
> (I laughed, I cried):
>
> http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=10799
>
> Someone pointed me to it because my site and I get a mention. Wahoo,
> my 5 minutes of fame!
>
> As for the 2001 ending, I have one word: fluff.
>
> Hope y'all are well, I'll try to interject more often! /Mez
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, November 23, 2001 8:26 AM

Subject: Re: [pota] New Movie Blues

that it had no depth

That's the word I was looking for!

DEPTH!

It has the superficiality of a cable movie.
Anyone would think that Ted Turner was involved.
Or a Spielberg and Hanks production.
Showtime goes Ape.
So much for Burton being an auteur.

>>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Maxwell" <alan@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 9:34 AM
Subject: Re: [pota] Use your reimagination!


> Rory <Haristas@...> wrote:
> > I think Region 4 is South America because where I read this was when
> someone
> > in Argentina was saying they have it in anamorphic. I think I read it
in
> one
> > of the reviews for POTA posted on IMDB.COM.
>
> South America it is. If anyone's interested:
>
> http://www.blackstar.co.uk/help/help_dvd_regions
>
> Alan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

mlccougar@... wrote:

Does anyone have a "junk" Caesar model kit they would be willing to sell? I basically only need the model kit's head (and if possible, the arms/hands as well,) so the rest of the kit doesn't matter.

If you have one you'd be willing to sell, please contact me (privately) with the info, such as price, etc....Thank you.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, November 23, 2001 7:20 PM

Subject: Re: [pota] New Movie Reaccessed

In a message dated 11/23/01 8:34:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

Duck & Cover!  Olswami bent Ladle must have nukes!  Rory likes the new movie!  Hell has frozen over and the world is coming to an end!

Nah, the one thing I like most about the new movie . . . is it's new.
When I've seen it as many times as the old one, we'll see what I think of it then.
My feelings for the moment remain the same.  It's not bad.  It's just not great.
I still think a little editing could help alot.  Cut Heston and cut Limbo's one liners.

I didn't say I like it as much as I said I don't hate it.  I HATED IT before, now, seeing it reduced to just another movie on DVD it's not so bad, but like you said, it's not great.  It definately has problems.  I think what eventually will be my opinion of it is that it's boring.  I started listening to the Burton commentary and I could see where large parts of it will become dull with repeated viewings.  There isn't enough to sustain interest over, say, thirty years, as with the original.  One thing I was thinking about it the first time I watched the DVD is how much the movie is like "Planet of the Apes meets The Wizard of OZ."  Now I hear Burton say in his commentary that for his hunt scene the flying monkeys scene in "Oz" was very much on his mind.  It figures.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

----- Original Message -----

From: mlccougar@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, November 23, 2001 8:23 PM

Subject: [pota] POTA Chronicles

I just wanted to say the the local Barnes and Noble had this book in stock. I did pick it up, but haven't read it (I haven't really even gotten into reading the Russo book yet.) Anyway, the little bit I did glance at was interesting, so I'll say Rory, you are right, this probably will be a good read.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

----- Original Message -----

From: Alexander Ruiz

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, November 23, 2001 10:01 PM

Subject: [pota] Re: Taking a Long break.

Hey gang.

Just droping you all a line and letting you all know that I'll be taking a long break from the web and hosting and for a while.

 

I'll be back towards the end of 2002 for an all new POTA site, and countdown. I really do need the break.

See ya all soon.

 

Best.

Al

 

Oh, P.S. I will have the DVD recorded in January - Feburary so I will post a message here on the group for those interested. I'll have complete details then.

 

And sorry, but I'm really burned out right now and need some time away to better focus on personal matters.

 

See you all soon.

Al

 

 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

----- Original Message -----
From: <mlccougar@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2001 11:13 PM
Subject: Re: [pota] POTA Chronicles


> It's mostly a rehash of old articles. You're better off getting "The
Unofficial Companion", which has great pictures.
>
> Well, I also have that book, and truthfully, I didn't think it was
anything to write home about either.
>
> Glancing at the "POTA Chronicles" a little more, I can see why you weren't
too impressed with it, but still, it's better than "The Unofficial
Companion". Talk about grasping at straws...I mean look at that book,
chapter 9 ("There's no business like monkey business")is one of the biggest
wastes of paper I have ever seen in a book that's supposed to be about Apes.
Chapter 8 and 11 are no picnic either...and the whole text in the movies
section is basically all rehash too, too many old reviews etc...and what
isn't rehashed basically is very, very amatuerish writing..I mean c'mon,"The
Quotable Apes"!?(By the way, "rehashed" lines from the films...what a bunch
of crap.)
>
> And you mentioned the good pictures in the "Unofficial" book. Again,
nothing to write home about. I know the author wasn't allowed access to
Fox's archives or whatever, but still, he probably could have gotten his
hands on some better Apes photos, not just the unmade up actors pics. He
might as well not have had any pics in it at all.
>
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2001 6:49 AM

Subject: Re: [pota] New Movie Reaccessed

In a message dated 11/24/01 1:38:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

 I saw the hunt scene as "a Wizard of Oz" nightmare the first time I saw it. And even the Thade makeup tests, what, a year ago, reminded me of that. I think Burton's mind is a big culture processor that takes things in and weaves them into his own thing. I don't think even he knows all the things his work references. His gift is rearranging what others originate.

I think the problem with the movie is there's no dramatic tension. There is in the opening scenes and from Ape City on he undermines himself. Even Wahlberg doesn't seem all that worried. It's one of those "greatest hits" albums. It's 'Planet of the Apes' greatest hits instead of a legit album. You know how you're waiting for a band's new album and instead they come out with a compilation, maybe remastered, sounding better than ever, but old ground.

                                                      - - - - Jeff

Totally agree, whatever dramatic tension it might develop gets undercut again and again by the less-than-serious approach and too rapid pacing, also, in another "Oz" reference, Wahlberg's Leo Davidson can be looked at as Dorothy in that all he wants to do is get home.

I really hope that Burton doesn't do the sequel.  I can see that what we have here is pretty much his 'take' on the material, and it isn't really successful.  I hope the 'brains' at Fox are thinking, "Ok, we've done this, now for the sequel let's try a completely different approach."  And hopefully that will mean someone else getting a stab at it.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

>Like a child being born for the first time.
>Listen to the comentary and you'll learn A
>LOT about the movie and his vision.

> Okay, so I've now watched POTA 2001 for a second time on DVD, this time

> in my apartment with my surround sound and 32" TV. You guys probably

> going to believe this, but I find this movie improving each time I see it.

> I'm noticing subtleties of performance and
> picking up lines dialogue I missed the first couple of times that make it
> play much better.

> I also think Burton did as good a job of directing it as
> the script would allow. The script was the problem here, AND the female
> chimp look.

>Just droping you all a line and letting you all know
>that I'll be taking a long break from the web and hosting
>and for a while.

Haristas@... wrote:
One thing I was thinking about it the first time I watched the DVD is how
much the movie is like "Planet of the Apes meets The Wizard of OZ."  Now I hear Burton say in his commentary that for his hunt scene
the flying monkeys scene in "Oz" was very much on his mind.  It figures.

"I'll get you and your little chimp too!"
                                                  -Thade.

> The book Rory liked was neither Chronicles or Unofficial Companion, it was
> "Legend of the Planet of the Apes - or How Hollywood Turned Darwin Upside
> Down".
>
> Alan
>
>
>
>
>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alan Maxwell [alan@...]
> Sent: Sunday, 25 November 2001 6:00
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [pota] Re: New Movie Blues
>
>
> "Alexander Ruiz" <prophecysite@...> wrote:
> >Like a child being born for the first time.
> >Listen to the comentary and you'll learn A
> >LOT about the movie and his vision.
>
> Call me old fashioned, but I'd like to think that a movie
> shouldn't need the
> aid of a commentary to get its point across! It's a bit like knowing the
> world's funniest joke but having to explain the punchline to everyone.
>
> Alan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

>... female make-up was poor (but then I wasn't that impressed with any of