Now that POTA 2001 was released on DVD/VHS and I've had a chance to see
it for a 2nd time I like it even less than the first time. I've noticed
something about this film that is even worse than the bad characters,
bad plot elements, and horrid look of the female chimps. What I dislike
most about POTA 2001 is the whole Tim Burton "look and feel" of the movie.
I HATE the red pointy hats of the apes. I hate the red pointy tents of
the apes. I hate everything red in the movie. I hate that 90% of the
film is visually dark. What I would have liked to see, instead, are lots
of ape faces (especially gorillas) in the bright sunlight. There only
seemed to be a few moments of this in the film, and those few brief
moments recaptured a little of the magic of the earlier and far better films.

The best case scenario in reviving the POTA franchise with a sequel would
be to dump Tim Burton and drop all the characters of the first movie.
Drop the awful look of the female chimps, but keep the more realistic
look of the male apes. Go in a completely different direction with a
new director and a new look. It's okay to stay in the same apes universe
as POTA 2001, but it doesn't necessarily need to since we already have
five different POTA universes anyway (when you include the book). Like
the earlier movies, show lots and lots of apes in broad daylight. And get
a much better script, hopefully with some clever social commentary like
each of the earlier movies. If it's only half as good as the earlier
movies it will be a great success.

.htmlIn a message dated 11/29/01 10:53:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, melkor@... writes:

Now that POTA 2001 was released on DVD/VHS and I've had a chance to see
it for a 2nd time I like it even less than the first time.  I've noticed
something about this film that is even worse than the bad characters,
bad plot elements, and horrid look of the female chimps.  What I dislike
most about POTA 2001 is the whole Tim Burton "look and feel" of the movie.  
I HATE the red pointy hats of the apes.  I hate the red pointy tents of
the apes.  I hate everything red in the movie.  I hate that 90% of the
film is visually dark.  What I would have liked to see, instead, are lots
of ape faces (especially gorillas) in the bright sunlight.  There only
seemed to be a few moments of this in the film, and those few brief
moments recaptured a little of the magic of the earlier and far better films.

The best case scenario in reviving the POTA franchise with a sequel would
be to dump Tim Burton and drop all the characters of the first movie.
Drop the awful look of the female chimps, but keep the more realistic
look of the male apes.  Go in a completely different direction with a
new director and a new look.  It's okay to stay in the same apes universe
as POTA 2001, but it doesn't necessarily need to since we already have
five different POTA universes anyway (when you include the book).  Like
the earlier movies, show lots and lots of apes in broad daylight.  And get
a much better script, hopefully with some clever social commentary like
each of the earlier movies.  If it's only half as good as the earlier
movies it will be a great success.

Of course, I pretty much agree with this, although the movie didn't seem as bad to me after I finally gave it complete attention on DVD.  My hopes were so high for it that the theatrical viewing was very painful, but then I was against this 're-invention' or 're-imagining' thing from the very start.  For the sequel Fox should completely forget this 'vision' and do another take on it.

I also totally agree with your desire to see the apes out in the sunshine.  The sunny, arid nature and naturalistic photography of the original is one of the big elements that's kept it my favorite movie for so long.  Many of my other favorite films share that 'sunny look' of PLANET.  However, I think if there's a sequel it'll probably be about how the apes took over earth and so we're likely to get another 'dark' picture, ala CONQUEST.

-- Rory<.html

I also totally agree with your desire to see the apes out in the sunshine.
The sunny, arid nature and naturalistic photography of the original is one
of the big elements that's kept it my favorite movie for so long. Many of
my other favorite films share that 'sunny look' of PLANET. However, I think
if there's a sequel it'll probably be about how the apes took over earth and
so we're likely to get another 'dark' picture, ala CONQUEST.

-- Rory


I hope your right.
In my opinion Planet and Conquest are the two best POTA movies. Although I
have a soft spot for Beneath, being the first I ever saw as a child. I just
hope they make a smart and believeable Conquest as in the original and not
some super Thade from the planet of Krypton.

Saw Harry Potter, very nice film. Although I did like The Grinch much
better. Oh Oh! RUN ALEX RUN!!!

Best.
Al


_____

I watched this last night and it's my fav from the television series
DVDs right now.

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, November 30, 2001 4:55 AM

Subject: Re: [pota] POTA 2001 2nd impression

In a message dated 11/29/01 10:53:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, melkor@... writes:

Now that POTA 2001 was released on DVD/VHS and I've had a chance to see
it for a 2nd time I like it even less than the first time.  I've noticed
something about this film that is even worse than the bad characters,
bad plot elements, and horrid look of the female chimps.  What I dislike
most about POTA 2001 is the whole Tim Burton "look and feel" of the movie.  
I HATE the red pointy hats of the apes.  I hate the red pointy tents of
the apes.  I hate everything red in the movie.  I hate that 90% of the
film is visually dark.  What I would have liked to see, instead, are lots
of ape faces (especially gorillas) in the bright sunlight.  There only
seemed to be a few moments of this in the film, and those few brief
moments recaptured a little of the magic of the earlier and far better films.

The best case scenario in reviving the POTA franchise with a sequel would
be to dump Tim Burton and drop all the characters of the first movie.
Drop the awful look of the female chimps, but keep the more realistic
look of the male apes.  Go in a completely different direction with a
new director and a new look.  It's okay to stay in the same apes universe
as POTA 2001, but it doesn't necessarily need to since we already have
five different POTA universes anyway (when you include the book).  Like
the earlier movies, show lots and lots of apes in broad daylight.  And get
a much better script, hopefully with some clever social commentary like
each of the earlier movies.  If it's only half as good as the earlier
movies it will be a great success.

Of course, I pretty much agree with this, although the movie didn't seem as bad to me after I finally gave it complete attention on DVD.  My hopes were so high for it that the theatrical viewing was very painful, but then I was against this 're-invention' or 're-imagining' thing from the very start.  For the sequel Fox should completely forget this 'vision' and do another take on it.

I also totally agree with your desire to see the apes out in the sunshine.  The sunny, arid nature and naturalistic photography of the original is one of the big elements that's kept it my favorite movie for so long.  Many of my other favorite films share that 'sunny look' of PLANET.  However, I think if there's a sequel it'll probably be about how the apes took over earth and so we're likely to get another 'dark' picture, ala CONQUEST.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/30/01 11:38:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, danpiercy@... writes:

I watched this last night and it's my fav from the television series
DVDs right now.

I've talked to Joe Russo since the TV series came out on DVD, and this seems to be his favorite episode too.

-- Rory<.html

"Calima 5021" <calima5021com@...> wrote:

> Here's a little POTA T.V. trivia.
> In the POTA T.V. Episode "The Gladiators" Roddy McDowall seems to be

doubled

> in some scenes. (non related stunt scenes) Can anyone find the scenes? And
> for those who are well informed with the episodes, can you explain why

this

> happened?

Never mind Galen's double, even Pete's double is obvious in "The
Gladiators"! Check out the scenes when he's forced to fight Tolar! (Not to
mention the obvious re-use of footage too)

Alan

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, November 30, 2001 10:57 AM

Subject: Re: [pota] The Horse Race

In a message dated 11/30/01 11:38:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, danpiercy@... writes:

I watched this last night and it's my fav from the television series
DVDs right now.

I've talked to Joe Russo since the TV series came out on DVD, and this seems to be his favorite episode too.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, November 30, 2001 10:57 AM

Subject: Re: [pota] The Horse Race

In a message dated 11/30/01 11:38:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, danpiercy@... writes:

I watched this last night and it's my fav from the television series
DVDs right now.

I've talked to Joe Russo since the TV series came out on DVD, and this seems to be his favorite episode too.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

Check out the double for Zauis when they are riding in long shots! (such
as approaching the ship in the first ep and arriving at the railway station
in "The Legacy". DVD is merciless!

- - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Maxwell" <alan@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2001 12:03 PM
Subject: Re: [pota] POTA T.V. Trivia


> "Calima 5021" <calima5021com@...> wrote:
> > Here's a little POTA T.V. trivia.
> > In the POTA T.V. Episode "The Gladiators" Roddy McDowall seems to be
> doubled
> > in some scenes. (non related stunt scenes) Can anyone find the scenes?
And
> > for those who are well informed with the episodes, can you explain why
> this
> > happened?
>
> Never mind Galen's double, even Pete's double is obvious in "The
> Gladiators"! Check out the scenes when he's forced to fight Tolar! (Not to
> mention the obvious re-use of footage too)
>
> Alan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.htmlIn a message dated 11/30/01 6:48:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

What about YOU, Rory? What's your favorite?

I honestly don't have one, but I'll let you know which I like best after I watch them all.  Now I've chosen to watch one episode per weekend, so I'll let you know -- in 13 weeks!

-- Rory<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, November 30, 2001 4:09 PM

Subject: Re: [pota] The Horse Race

In a message dated 11/30/01 6:48:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

What about YOU, Rory? What's your favorite?

I honestly don't have one, but I'll let you know which I like best after I watch them all.  Now I've chosen to watch one episode per weekend, so I'll let you know -- in 13 weeks!

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/30/01 6:49:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

 Today's "Hollywood Reporter" says "Apes" was #1 for video rentals and DVD sales, making that hasbeen "The Grinch" #2. The new "Entertainment Weekly" echoes this. So why did Grinch make more money? BECAUSE "Apes" isn't priced to sell on VHS, still the industry's bread and butter. If Fox had sold it on VHS they'd be doing the crowing right now, not Universal. I'd say there's a sequel in our future, maybe an adaptation of "The Horse Race".

                                                       - - - - Jeff



Yeah, that was pretty dumb of Fox not to price the VHS to sell, but the studio has made money on this movie, will continue to make money on this movie, and will probably do a sequel, which will in turn make more money -- and that's what it's all about after all. Though as to the sequel, I still get the feeling they're all scratching their heads as to what to do next.

-- Rory<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, November 30, 2001 4:14 PM

Subject: Re: [pota] D'oh! "Apes" is #1!

In a message dated 11/30/01 6:49:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

 Today's "Hollywood Reporter" says "Apes" was #1 for video rentals and DVD sales, making that hasbeen "The Grinch" #2. The new "Entertainment Weekly" echoes this. So why did Grinch make more money? BECAUSE "Apes" isn't priced to sell on VHS, still the industry's bread and butter. If Fox had sold it on VHS they'd be doing the crowing right now, not Universal. I'd say there's a sequel in our future, maybe an adaptation of "The Horse Race".

                                                       - - - - Jeff

Yeah, that was pretty dumb of Fox not to price the VHS to sell, but the studio has made money on this movie, will continue to make money on this movie, and will probably do a sequel, which will in turn make more money -- and that's what it's all about after all. Though as to the sequel, I still get the feeling they're all scratching their heads as to what to do next.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/30/01 6:52:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

 Check out the double for Zauis when they are riding in long shots! (such
as approaching the ship in the first ep and arriving at the railway station
in "The Legacy". DVD is merciless!

                                                           - - - Jeff

Yes!  I have looked at bits and pieces of certain episodes, and I'm having lots of fun freeze-framing on those shots where I can see Roddy McDowall's real mouth inside the ape's -- and other actor's too!  Oh, this TV series was a riot!

BUT!!!   Let's not forget the original film.  For you who have DVD players, in PLANET go to chapter 16 and hit still frame at 60 minutes, 49 seconds, then advance forward a frame at a time.  This is the "It's a madhouse!" scene where Chuck gets hosed.  Watch the gorilla that pushes Chuck back against the wall after Taylor tries to help Nova.  As the gorilla backs off Heston, you'll see that the streaming water has flipped his front wig piece over his forehead.  The actor playing the gorilla must have known he'd flipped his lid because he ducks behind Nova and the other gorilla.  In the next shot of him, his hair is all fixed.

-- Rory<.html

.html

Though as to the sequel, I still get the feeling they're all scratching their heads as to what to do next.

I'm not.
Tell 'em I know exactly what to do.<.html

Whatever. I think you're being a little TOO picky, with hating all things
pointy and red.

-Joe

.htmlIn a message dated 11/30/2001 11:00:59 PM Central Standard Time, CheeseGOTAS@... writes:

Whatever.  I think you're being a little TOO picky, with hating all things
pointy and red.

-Joe

While I never saw (nor do I plan on seeing) POTA 2001, I'd have to say he was right. All the pics I did see show those ugly pointy "wizard" hats on the apes in that movie. He's right, those helmets suck.<.html

In a message dated 11/30/01 11:14:40 PM Central Standard Time,
mlccougar@... writes:

<< While I never saw (nor do I plan on seeing) POTA 2001, I'd have to say he
was
right. All the pics I did see show those ugly pointy "wizard" hats on the
apes in that movie. He's right, those helmets suck. >>

I've heard you talk about how you think the helmets are ugly before, but they
are not wizard hats. They don't have a brim. They are just wavy, pointy
helmets, and I think they look great. I've never heard anyone complain about
General Ursus' helmet before. It looks like he's wearing a beachball with
leather covering it in some shots.

-Joe

.htmlIn a message dated 11/30/2001 11:36:51 PM Central Standard Time, CheeseGOTAS@... writes:

I've never heard anyone complain about General Ursus' helmet before.  It looks like he's wearing a beachball with leather covering it in some shots.

Maybe no one has complained about Ursus' helmet because it actually looks good. And I for one don't think it looks anything like a "beach ball".

<.html

By "wizard" he might mean that they look like the flying monkeys from "The
Wizard of Oz", which Burton says is the inspiration. At first I hated them,
but the red costumes kinda grew on me. I guess my main complaint is it makes
them look like a cross between football players and umpires. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: <CheeseGOTAS@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 30, 2001 9:34 PM
Subject: Re: [pota] POTA 2001 2nd impression


> In a message dated 11/30/01 11:14:40 PM Central Standard Time,
> mlccougar@... writes:
>
> << While I never saw (nor do I plan on seeing) POTA 2001, I'd have to say
he
> was
> right. All the pics I did see show those ugly pointy "wizard" hats on the
> apes in that movie. He's right, those helmets suck. >>
>
> I've heard you talk about how you think the helmets are ugly before, but
they
> are not wizard hats. They don't have a brim. They are just wavy, pointy
> helmets, and I think they look great. I've never heard anyone complain
about
> General Ursus' helmet before. It looks like he's wearing a beachball with
> leather covering it in some shots.
>
> -Joe
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

>From: mlccougar@...
>Subject: Re: POTA 2001 2nd impression
>While I never saw (nor do I plan on seeing) POTA 2001, I'd have to say he

was

>right. All the pics I did see show those ugly pointy "wizard" hats on the
>apes in that movie. He's right, those helmets suck.

How can you even have an opinion about anything in the film if you haven't
seen it? That makes no sense.

"Rich Handley" <rhandley@...> wrote:

>
> How can you even have an opinion about anything in the film if you haven't
> seen it? That makes no sense.

Rich, you should go back and read the archives from before the new movie was
released! Every second message was either Cougar saying that, despite not
having seen it, it was garbage and that no true ape fan should support it,
or it was Alex saying that, despite not having seen it, it was brilliant and
that anyone saying anything negative about it was an asshole!

Ah, those were the days.

Alan

Yesterday's London Free Press newspaper (Canada) printed their weekly JUMBO
VIDEO chart of top rentals in the city, and last week's number one was
POTA!!

Dan

.htmlIn a message dated 12/1/01 3:04:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

 By "wizard" he might mean that they look like the flying monkeys from "The
Wizard of Oz", which Burton says is the inspiration. At first I hated them,
but the red costumes kinda grew on me. I guess my main complaint is it makes
them look like a cross between football players and umpires.    - - - Jeff

I think the shape of the helmets in the new movie has something to do with the shape of the pod from the Oberon.  Has anyone else notice the seashell spiral on Attar's and other gorilla's helmets.  I think this is supposed to have something to do with the spiraling, circular timelines of the stories, and is why it was used with the modified POTA logo.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 12/1/01 2:50:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, mlccougar@... writes:

In a message dated 11/30/2001 11:36:51 PM Central Standard Time, CheeseGOTAS@... writes:

I've never heard anyone complain about General Ursus' helmet before.  It looks like he's wearing a beachball with leather covering it in some shots.

Maybe no one has complained about Ursus' helmet because it actually looks good. And I for one don't think it looks anything like a "beach ball".

I've always thought Ursus' outfit looked really cool, including the helmet, though I'd like it a lot better if he'd been seen in the original.  Too bad Morton Haack not still alive so he could explain what inspired his costume designs.  I think Ursus' 'look' is from something Japanese, although overall I've always thought that the ape culture seen in the original movie was more Chinese inspired, you know, very conformist and traditional, and the Lawgiver is even a little like a Confucius figure.  This apparently wasn't lost of the designers of the new movie either.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 12/1/01 5:20:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, rhandley@... writes:

>From: mlccougar@...
>Subject: Re: POTA 2001 2nd impression
>While I never saw (nor do I plan on seeing) POTA 2001, I'd have to say he
was
>right. All the pics I did see show those ugly pointy "wizard" hats on the
>apes in that movie. He's right, those helmets suck.

How can you even have an opinion about anything in the film if you haven't
seen it?  That makes no sense.

He's seen clips, but I agree that he should see the movie.  I've tried to talk cougar into watching it, but he just doesn't care to.  Oh well, is he really missing anything great?   No.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 12/1/01 9:56:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, mystic4ever@... writes:

Yesterday's London Free Press newspaper (Canada) printed their weekly JUMBO
VIDEO chart of top rentals in the city, and last week's number one was
POTA!!

Dan

Hey!  This is POTA 2001 we're talking about!  It's number two!!  It's NUMBER TWO!!!  (Oh, shut up, you freak!)

-- Rory<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2001 7:49 AM

Subject: Re: [pota] POTA 2001 2nd impression

In a message dated 12/1/01 3:04:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

 By "wizard" he might mean that they look like the flying monkeys from "The
Wizard of Oz", which Burton says is the inspiration. At first I hated them,
but the red costumes kinda grew on me. I guess my main complaint is it makes
them look like a cross between football players and umpires.    - - - Jeff

I think the shape of the helmets in the new movie has something to do with the shape of the pod from the Oberon.  Has anyone else notice the seashell spiral on Attar's and other gorilla's helmets.  I think this is supposed to have something to do with the spiraling, circular timelines of the stories, and is why it was used with the modified POTA logo.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 12/1/01 11:33:43 AM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

 According to costume designer Colleen Atwood, the spiral on the helmets is Burton's "signature".   - - Jeff

Oh yeah, right.  But does it mean anything?  Come to think of it, who cares?

-- Rory<.html

Rich, you should go back and read the archives from before the new movie was
released! Every second message was either Cougar saying that, despite not
having seen it, it was garbage and that no true ape fan should support it,
or it was Alex saying that, despite not having seen it, it was brilliant and
that anyone saying anything negative about it was an asshole!


Seems to me neither won that argument. It was typical Summer Matinee Action
Thiller fare. Not up to the standards of the original, but a bit better than
Battle.

.htmlIn a message dated 12/1/2001 4:20:29 AM Central Standard Time, rhandley@... writes:

>From: mlccougar@...
>Subject: Re: POTA 2001 2nd impression
>While I never saw (nor do I plan on seeing) POTA 2001, I'd have to say he
was
>right. All the pics I did see show those ugly pointy "wizard" hats on the
>apes in that movie. He's right, those helmets suck.

How can you even have an opinion about anything in the film if you haven't
seen it?  That makes no sense.

How can you say that? Saying how I think they look does too make sense. I certainly can judge how I think something looks just by looking at it. If I think those apes helmets look stupid, and I do, I sure can have an opinion on that judged by the pictures I've seen. I didn't attack that  movie, I said their accessories look bad.

It'd be like you saying you don't like a certain type of music, or a certain type of tv show. You base your opinion based on what you've heard or seen. You don't need to see all aspects of something to form an opinion on something you know. Another example would be you saying you don't like the way a certain kind of car looks. How could anyone say they don't like a car, after all, they never driven one. These examples I gave here make as much sense as you saying I can't think their helmets are ugly because I didn't see that movie. I suppose you're gonna say I can't say that Ari looks like a freak because I didn't see the movie, I've only seen pics of her. Ohh, how dare I form an opinion on her look, and Thade's helmet because I didn't see them in the movie, only in pictures and at the store...<.html

.html
I've always thought Ursus' outfit looked really cool, including the helmet, though I'd like it a lot better if he'd been seen in the original.


Don't knock the Helmet.
It has to be the coolest helmet in film history!<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 12/1/2001 11:26:52 AM Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

According to costume designer Colleen Atwood, the spiral on the helmets is Burton's "signature".   - - Jeff

Oh yeah, right.  But does it mean anything?

No doubt the spiral helmet represents the curved part of the Oberon and the pointy hats represent the straight part.  And if you put a pointy helmet between two spirals it looks like a DICK!  Sorry, had to get the forbidden word in here somewhere.  Now as to why some are red and some are black . . . The black spirals felt that Lister should serve doughnuts on Fushal and the pointy reds thought they should serve hot-dogs.<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 12/1/2001 1:07:29 PM Central Standard Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

Rich, you should go back and read the archives from before the new movie was
released! Every second message was either Cougar saying that, despite not
having seen it, it was garbage and that no true ape fan should support it,
or it was Alex saying that, despite not having seen it, it was brilliant and
that anyone saying anything negative about it was an asshole!


Seems to me neither won that argument.  It was typical Summer Matinee Action
Thiller fare.  Not up to the standards of the original, but a bit better than
Battle.

Well, in a way, you're right. I mean it was a hit like Alex was hoping it'd be, and it was a disappointment to fans of the original series like I was saying it'd be. So we both had some of our biased opinions "validated" so to speak.<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 12/1/2001 1:09:01 PM Central Standard Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

I've always thought Ursus' outfit looked really cool, including the helmet, though I'd like it a lot better if he'd been seen in the original.

Don't knock the Helmet.
It has to be the coolest helmet in film history!

Rory didn't knock the Ursus helmet, CheeseGOTAS did. And I agree, the Ursus outfit is easily the coolest of any of the Apes outfits. (But can I have an opinion on that, after all, I didn't design any outfits, so how can I say that I like it. J/K.)<.html

I think they could have left out a lot of the in jokes and put in more
exposition on the Ape lifestyle. That would have made it better.

.html

Rory didn't knock the Ursus helmet, CheeseGOTAS did.

Yeah, I know it was Goatcheeseass I just didn't get around to addressing the topic until the next post.  Sorry if that was misleading.

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2001 11:50 AM

Subject: Re: [pota] POTA 2001 2nd impression

Rory didn't knock the Ursus helmet, CheeseGOTAS did.

Yeah, I know it was Goatcheeseass I just didn't get around to addressing the topic until the next post.  Sorry if that was misleading.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: mlccougar@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2001 11:37 AM

Subject: Re: [pota] POTA 2001 2nd impression

In a message dated 12/1/2001 1:09:01 PM Central Standard Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

I've always thought Ursus' outfit looked really cool, including the helmet, though I'd like it a lot better if he'd been seen in the original.

Don't knock the Helmet.
It has to be the coolest helmet in film history!

Rory didn't knock the Ursus helmet, CheeseGOTAS did. And I agree, the Ursus outfit is easily the coolest of any of the Apes outfits. (But can I have an opinion on that, after all, I didn't design any outfits, so how can I say that I like it. J/K.)

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.htmlSubj: Re: [pota] POTA 2001 2nd impression
Date: 12/1/2001 2:29:55 PM Central Standard Time
From:    ruletheplanet@... (MARK)
Reply-to: pota@yahoogroups.com
To:    pota@yahoogroups.com




please dont send no more e-mails

We're not the ones to tell not to send these postings to you. It's not us sending them to you..You subscibed to this group,so it's up to you to unsubscribe. The group members don't send them, Yahoo! does.<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 12/1/01 2:52:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

Rory didn't knock the Ursus helmet, CheeseGOTAS did.

Yeah, I know it was Goatcheeseass I just didn't get around to addressing the topic until the next post.  Sorry if that was misleading.


Hey, I don't care.  I will say this, I thought the Ursus helmet looked (looks?) dumb painted on the TV show.  Anybody want to go ape over that opinion?

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 12/1/2001 2:29:48 PM Central Standard Time, ruletheplanet@... writes:

please dont send no more e-mails

And this from a guy who's SN is Rule The Planet.

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 12/1/01 3:29:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, ruletheplanet@... writes:

please dont send no more e-mails

SHUT UP, YOU FREAK!<.html

.htmlI was in Blockbuster again this weekend.  All most all of the POTA 2001 DVDs were checked-out, hardly any of the "Grinch" were out.  Blockbuster has this deal going where if you rent POTA 2001 on DVD or VHS and buy a 2-liter bottle of coke, you get the CD-ROM free.  I thought about doing this, since I didn't get the CD-ROM, for about a minute then remembered that this was POTA 2001 we're talking about and took a pass.  I'm sure Alex is probably working on making copies of this thing for everybody anyway.  (hint, hint)

When I got to the check-out -- I rented the DVD of Vol. 3, second season of "The Sopranos," which I haven't seen yet and enjoy -- I looked down and saw a box full of these POTA CD-ROMs by the cash register.  I thought, "Should I just palm one while they're not looking?"  Then I thought, "Do I want to get caught shoplifting over this?!!!"   I may be a lousy human bastard, but I'm not that stupid!

So, I'm going to go watch the Sopranos now.

-- Rory<.html

In a message dated 12/1/01 10:50:07 AM, Haristas@... writes:

<< I think the shape of the helmets in the new movie has something to do with
the shape of the pod from the Oberon. Has anyone else notice the seashell
spiral on Attar's and other gorilla's helmets. I think this is supposed to
have something to do with the spiraling, circular timelines of the stories,
and is why it was used with the modified POTA logo. >>

I love when Rory talks about those great circular timelines in all of the
POTA films.

Matt

.htmlClick here: eBay item 1490955353 (Ends Dec-04-01 23:12:35 PST ) - PLANET OF THE APES, ICARUS, HOLLYWOOD MODEL

Wow!  This would be cool to have, but I wouldn't pay more than fifty bucks for it.

-- Rory <.html

.htmlIn a message dated 12/1/01 4:35:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, MTotsky@... writes:

I love when Rory talks about those great circular timelines in all of the
POTA films.

Matt

SHUT UP, YOU FREAK!!!<.html

>Rich, you should go back and read the archives from before the new movie was
>released! Every second message was either Cougar saying that, despite not
>having seen it, it was garbage and that no true ape fan should support it,
>or it was Alex saying that, despite not having seen it, it was brilliant and
>that anyone saying anything negative about it was an asshole!

Come to think of it, I do remember that. Still, it's invalid to love or
hate a movie (or anything else, for that matter) without even seeing it.

>From: Haristas@...
>Subject: Re: Digest Number 818
>He's seen clips, but I agree that he should see the movie. I've tried to
>talk cougar into watching it, but he just doesn't care to. Oh well, is he
>really missing anything great? No.

Personally, I really liked it -- but I do think all five of the originals
are better.

>From: LordTZer0@...
>Subject: Re: Digest Number 818
>Seems to me neither won that argument. It was typical Summer Matinee Action
>Thiller fare. Not up to the standards of the original, but a bit better

than Battle.

Yeah, it was definitely a good film -- but it's not a remake of the
original and isn't meant to be. Why an Apes fan would deny himself the
experience of seeing it is beyond me. It's certainly better than either
the TV or cartoon series.

>From: "MARK" <ruletheplanet@...>
>Subject: Re: POTA 2001 2nd impression
>please dont send no more e-mails

Listen, Einstein, you subscribed to this group. We didn't subscribe you.
No one is sending *you* emails. We're sending emails to a list-server...
the same list-server you had to have subscribed to if you're receiving
these emails. If you don't want the emails, do the logical thing and
unsubscribe. There's no way for us to remove you from the emails we send
-- they go to everyone who subscribes.

By the way... "Don't send me no more emails?" Who are you -- Rocky Balboa?

.html In a message dated 12/1/01 11:33:43 AM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

 According to costume designer Colleen Atwood, the spiral on the helmets is Burton's "signature".   - - Jeff

Oh yeah, right.  But does it mean anything?  Come to think of it, who cares?

-- Rory
<.html

.html <.html

.html<.html

.html In a message dated 12/1/01 2:52:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

Rory didn't knock the Ursus helmet, CheeseGOTAS did.

Yeah, I know it was Goatcheeseass I just didn't get around to addressing the topic until the next post.  Sorry if that was misleading.


Hey, I don't care.  I will say this, I thought the Ursus helmet looked (looks?) dumb painted on the TV show.  Anybody want to go ape over that opinion?

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .
<.html

.html <.html

.htmlAlright, I've watched two episodes now and this is the thing that's bothering me at the moment (besides the makeup looking bad on some actors):  Why don't the gorillas have the collars of hair around their necks like they did in the first two films? (This was done so the actors playing the gorillas wouldn't look like they had necks, since gorillas don't have necks.)  And second, who told the actors playing the gorillas to adapt that chimpanzee--Groucho Marx posture?  They look ridiculous, especially Mark Lenard, who's also too skinny!  They should have added a padded gut to his costume at least. (Joe Russo by the way hates Mark Lenard in the show.  He makes Urko an idiot.)

-- Rory<.html

.html <.html

Yeah, but would it have flown with the majority of the audience that
thinks talking apes is stupid and want to laugh at it, or so perhaps Fox
thinks?

----- Original Message -----
From: <LordTZer0@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2001 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: [pota] Digest Number 818


>
> I think they could have left out a lot of the in jokes and put in more
> exposition on the Ape lifestyle. That would have made it better.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2001 1:33 PM

Subject: [pota] POTA at Blockbuster

I was in Blockbuster again this weekend.  All most all of the POTA 2001 DVDs were checked-out, hardly any of the "Grinch" were out.  Blockbuster has this deal going where if you rent POTA 2001 on DVD or VHS and buy a 2-liter bottle of coke, you get the CD-ROM free.  I thought about doing this, since I didn't get the CD-ROM, for about a minute then remembered that this was POTA 2001 we're talking about and took a pass.  I'm sure Alex is probably working on making copies of this thing for everybody anyway.  (hint, hint)

When I got to the check-out -- I rented the DVD of Vol. 3, second season of "The Sopranos," which I haven't seen yet and enjoy -- I looked down and saw a box full of these POTA CD-ROMs by the cash register.  I thought, "Should I just palm one while they're not looking?"  Then I thought, "Do I want to get caught shoplifting over this?!!!"   I may be a lousy human bastard, but I'm not that stupid!

So, I'm going to go watch the Sopranos now.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

--- In pota@y..., danpiercy@y... wrote:

> I watched this last night and it's my fav from the television series
> DVDs right now.

The only thing I had a problem with (in "The Horse Race"), is that
Urko is supposed to be a law-enforcement officer; remember when (in
"The Surgeon") he tells Zaius that "no crime is minor"--even a minor
burglary? Urko's ongoing scheme to bilk various prefects out of their
assets makes him a thief himself. Somehow he has the ability to
"insist" on these horse-races taking place: How? Is it a crime for a
prefect to tell Urko to "take a hike, I don't want to wager on any
horse race!" ?
Remember how Aboro (in "The Tyrant") had been expelled from the
"academy" for cheating? Evidently, the only crime is to be CAUGHT at
cheating--not merely to DO the act!
Urko seems not above using his influence to get things to go his way.
He can influence the Council to re-transfer Barlow back to Kaymak. In
"The Legacy", a conversation between Zaius and Urko references the
latter's influence with the Council. What sort of influence might this
be? Does he have blackmail going on? In "Escape From Tomorrow", the
scene with the High Council shows orangutans and chimpanzees (both
plural) and Urko--the only gorilla, it seems, on this Council. Other
than the threat of exposing some councilmember's 'dirty laundry', I
don't see how he can have ANY 'influence' on the High Council.
Why don't the various prefects (who all have been forced into wagering
against Urko's racehorse) sign a petition and have Zaius censure Urko
for abusing his influence as General/Chief of Security/whatever?
The foregoing aside, I must admit the episode is rather fun. And it's
nice to see it simply because there's more of Urko in it than in most
of the other episodes.

--- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:

> I think it looked awkward and I think that was where I first saw the

angle

> Joe is referring to (side) where the helmet looks like a baloon at

the rear.

> I remember thinking "that looks queer".
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Haristas@a... [Haristas@a...]
> Sent: Sunday, 2 December 2001 8:21
> To: pota@y...
> Subject: Re: [pota] POTA 2001 2nd impression
>
>
> In a message dated 12/1/01 2:52:15 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> LordTZer0@A... writes:
>
>
>
>
>
> Rory didn't knock the Ursus helmet, CheeseGOTAS did.
>
>
>
> Yeah, I know it was Goatcheeseass I just didn't get around to

addressing

> the topic until the next post. Sorry if that was misleading.
>
>
>
> Hey, I don't care. I will say this, I thought the Ursus helmet

looked

> (looks?) dumb painted on the TV show. Anybody want to go ape over

that

> opinion?
>
>How's this for a speculation?

The helmet worn by Urko (in 3085) had paint on it for a reason: so the
'glyph' on it could be more easily "read" by some ape who's not close
enough to see the various component symbols the glyph is comprised of.
This very same helmet is passed down, General-to-General, over the
course of the next 870 years... and so, in 3955, Ursus wears this same
helmet--and the paint has long since worn off over the centuries.
Perhaps the plated armor worn by Ursus was contrived AFTER the time of
Urko. Is it, one wonders, bullet-proof?
Just speculatin' here, folks.
P.S. By the way, regardless of what people may think about the "look"
of the sets/costumes/etc. of Burton's film... the original POTA
production design RULES! Ursus'/Urko's helmet is--I think--infinitely
more impressive. Morton Haack (who designed the POTA costumes)
established a far more interesting "look" for Schaffner's film (and
its sequels).
In my opinion, anyway.

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:

> <A

HREF="http://cgi.ebay.aol.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=14909
55353">Click here: eBay item 1490955353 (Ends Dec-04-01 23:12:35 PST )
- PLANET OF

> THE APES, ICARUS, HOLLYWOOD MODEL</A>
>
> Wow! This would be cool to have, but I wouldn't pay more than fifty

bucks

> for it.
>
> -- Rory

Nice model. Too bad it's not an accurate representation of what is to
be seen in the actual movie ("Beneath...").
Where's the hexagonal trusswork and the three landing legs (which
originally came from the "Lost In Space" ship) attached to them?
Other than that quibble, I commend the model-maker on a nice job. If
only REVELL would release a big-ass version of the so-called
"Icarus"/POTA ship! It'd be great if they could include an ACCURATE
representation of the interior; Jim Key's blueprints are mostly right,
so they could use them as a guide. I say "mostly" because he goofs in
regards to the upper two hibernation chambers (Landon's & Stewart's);
the glass "doors" of these chambers slide UP into the "roof" of the
cabin--but Jim Key's blueprints (when extrapolated into a
cross-section of the relevant area, front/back view) would have these
two doors slide OUTSIDE the hull of the ship. I've been working on a
set of blueprints that corrects this mistake--using as a "guide" Jim's
"top/interior" view. Things would go a hell of a lot easier if I had a
CAD program and knew how to use it!
The "Monsters In Motion" ship is nice, but its interior is not exactly
accurate, as I'm sure everybody here knows.

.htmlIn a message dated 12/2/01 10:40:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

How's this for a speculation?
The helmet worn by Urko (in 3085) had paint on it for a reason: so the
'glyph' on it could be more easily "read" by some ape who's not close
enough to see the various component symbols the glyph is comprised of.
This very same helmet is passed down, General-to-General, over the
course of the next 870 years... and so, in 3955, Ursus wears this same
helmet--and the paint has long since worn off over the centuries.
Perhaps the plated armor worn by Ursus was contrived AFTER the time of
Urko. Is it, one wonders, bullet-proof?
Just speculatin' here, folks.
P.S. By the way, regardless of what people may think about the "look"
of the sets/costumes/etc. of Burton's film... the original POTA
production design RULES! Ursus'/Urko's helmet is--I think--infinitely
more impressive. Morton Haack (who designed the POTA costumes)
established a far more interesting "look" for Schaffner's film (and
its sequels).
In my opinion, anyway.

I would speculate that that helmet would fall apart long before it reached the age of 870!  Besides, I don't think the timeline that the TV show exists in is the same that leads to BENEATH.  Remember in ESCAPE and BATTLE time is looked at as an infinate number of lanes all leading from the past to the future.  Change lanes, you change the future.  If you could go back in time and do something like stop WWII from happening, then you would change a lane and when you return to the future you left you'd find it a different place.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 12/2/01 10:57:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

Nice model. Too bad it's not an accurate representation of what is to
be seen in the actual movie ("Beneath...").
Where's the hexagonal trusswork and the three landing legs (which
originally came from the "Lost In Space" ship) attached to them?
Other than that quibble, I commend the model-maker on a nice job. If
only REVELL would release a big-ass version of the so-called
"Icarus"/POTA ship! It'd be great if they could include an ACCURATE
representation of the interior; Jim Key's blueprints are mostly right,
so they could use them as a guide. I say "mostly" because he goofs in
regards to the upper two hibernation chambers (Landon's & Stewart's);
the glass "doors" of these chambers slide UP into the "roof" of the
cabin--but Jim Key's blueprints (when extrapolated into a
cross-section of the relevant area, front/back view) would have these
two doors slide OUTSIDE the hull of the ship. I've been working on a
set of blueprints that corrects this mistake--using as a "guide" Jim's
"top/interior" view. Things would go a hell of a lot easier if I had a
CAD program and knew how to use it!
The "Monsters In Motion" ship is nice, but its interior is not exactly
accurate, as I'm sure everybody here knows.

Blame William Creber for any flaws with the basic design of the ship, which is really a rather unlikely craft to travel at near-light speed.  But it did look good sticking out of that blue lake.

-- Rory<.html

There's also the line in "The Tyrant" : "Urko never approved of
corruption". But perhaps the horse races are considered lightweight fun and
his shenenigans not all that serious. Maybe the prefects do it out of
respect, even when they have a lot to lose. You don't actually see Urko
holding prefects at gunpoint. The ape world is not exactly a
- - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 7:26 AM
Subject: [pota] Re: The Horse Race


> --- In pota@y..., danpiercy@y... wrote:
> > I watched this last night and it's my fav from the television series
> > DVDs right now.
>
> The only thing I had a problem with (in "The Horse Race"), is that
> Urko is supposed to be a law-enforcement officer; remember when (in
> "The Surgeon") he tells Zaius that "no crime is minor"--even a minor
> burglary? Urko's ongoing scheme to bilk various prefects out of their
> assets makes him a thief himself. Somehow he has the ability to
> "insist" on these horse-races taking place: How? Is it a crime for a
> prefect to tell Urko to "take a hike, I don't want to wager on any
> horse race!" ?
> Remember how Aboro (in "The Tyrant") had been expelled from the
> "academy" for cheating? Evidently, the only crime is to be CAUGHT at
> cheating--not merely to DO the act!
> Urko seems not above using his influence to get things to go his way.
> He can influence the Council to re-transfer Barlow back to Kaymak. In
> "The Legacy", a conversation between Zaius and Urko references the
> latter's influence with the Council. What sort of influence might this
> be? Does he have blackmail going on? In "Escape From Tomorrow", the
> scene with the High Council shows orangutans and chimpanzees (both
> plural) and Urko--the only gorilla, it seems, on this Council. Other
> than the threat of exposing some councilmember's 'dirty laundry', I
> don't see how he can have ANY 'influence' on the High Council.
> Why don't the various prefects (who all have been forced into wagering
> against Urko's racehorse) sign a petition and have Zaius censure Urko
> for abusing his influence as General/Chief of Security/whatever?
> The foregoing aside, I must admit the episode is rather fun. And it's
> nice to see it simply because there's more of Urko in it than in most
> of the other episodes.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I don't buy the idea that Urko and Ursus are wearing the exact same helmet
( though the actors are) but obviously it's the same type of helmet. I say
the culture of the TV show has advanced by 3955 but the one in the movie was
cut off from the rest of the world and stagnated.

- - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 7:39 AM
Subject: [pota] Re: Ursus Helmet


> --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > I think it looked awkward and I think that was where I first saw the
> angle
> > Joe is referring to (side) where the helmet looks like a baloon at
> the rear.
> > I remember thinking "that looks queer".
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Haristas@a... [Haristas@a...]
> > Sent: Sunday, 2 December 2001 8:21
> > To: pota@y...
> > Subject: Re: [pota] POTA 2001 2nd impression
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 12/1/01 2:52:15 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > LordTZer0@A... writes:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Rory didn't knock the Ursus helmet, CheeseGOTAS did.
> >
> >
> >
> > Yeah, I know it was Goatcheeseass I just didn't get around to
> addressing
> > the topic until the next post. Sorry if that was misleading.
> >
> >
> >
> > Hey, I don't care. I will say this, I thought the Ursus helmet
> looked
> > (looks?) dumb painted on the TV show. Anybody want to go ape over
> that
> > opinion?
> >
> >How's this for a speculation?
> The helmet worn by Urko (in 3085) had paint on it for a reason: so the
> 'glyph' on it could be more easily "read" by some ape who's not close
> enough to see the various component symbols the glyph is comprised of.
> This very same helmet is passed down, General-to-General, over the
> course of the next 870 years... and so, in 3955, Ursus wears this same
> helmet--and the paint has long since worn off over the centuries.
> Perhaps the plated armor worn by Ursus was contrived AFTER the time of
> Urko. Is it, one wonders, bullet-proof?
> Just speculatin' here, folks.
> P.S. By the way, regardless of what people may think about the "look"
> of the sets/costumes/etc. of Burton's film... the original POTA
> production design RULES! Ursus'/Urko's helmet is--I think--infinitely
> more impressive. Morton Haack (who designed the POTA costumes)
> established a far more interesting "look" for Schaffner's film (and
> its sequels).
> In my opinion, anyway.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 8:06 AM

Subject: Re: [pota] Re: Ursus Helmet

In a message dated 12/2/01 10:40:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

How's this for a speculation?
The helmet worn by Urko (in 3085) had paint on it for a reason: so the
'glyph' on it could be more easily "read" by some ape who's not close
enough to see the various component symbols the glyph is comprised of.
This very same helmet is passed down, General-to-General, over the
course of the next 870 years... and so, in 3955, Ursus wears this same
helmet--and the paint has long since worn off over the centuries.
Perhaps the plated armor worn by Ursus was contrived AFTER the time of
Urko. Is it, one wonders, bullet-proof?
Just speculatin' here, folks.
P.S. By the way, regardless of what people may think about the "look"
of the sets/costumes/etc. of Burton's film... the original POTA
production design RULES! Ursus'/Urko's helmet is--I think--infinitely
more impressive. Morton Haack (who designed the POTA costumes)
established a far more interesting "look" for Schaffner's film (and
its sequels).
In my opinion, anyway.

I would speculate that that helmet would fall apart long before it reached the age of 870!  Besides, I don't think the timeline that the TV show exists in is the same that leads to BENEATH.  Remember in ESCAPE and BATTLE time is looked at as an infinate number of lanes all leading from the past to the future.  Change lanes, you change the future.  If you could go back in time and do something like stop WWII from happening, then you would change a lane and when you return to the future you left you'd find it a different place.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 12/2/2001 9:40:35 AM Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

How's this for a speculation?
The helmet worn by Urko (in 3085) had paint on it for a reason: so the
'glyph' on it could be more easily "read" by some ape who's not close
enough to see the various component symbols the glyph is comprised of.
This very same helmet is passed down, General-to-General, over the
course of the next 870 years... and so, in 3955, Ursus wears this same
helmet--and the paint has long since worn off over the centuries. While your idea here is not totally out of the question, I'd say no. I mean I'm sure they could very easily just make new helmets for their various gorilla leaders over the centuries. Come to think of it, even Urko must have more than one helmet himself. "Why?", well look at the episode 'The Trap'...he loses his helmet as he and Burke fall into the subway, and does not have it in the rest of the show, yet he has a helmet in later episodes. So, unless Zako picked it up before he left the city (and gave it back to Urko,) they must have other helmets around that are easily accessable. And also, I'm sure there is not just one helmet for the entire Ape kingdom, because there are at least 2 populations, west coast (tv) and east coast (Planet and Beneath.) And I'm sure there is more than one general in command at one time. (At least one for each heavily populated area of their nation)...It's just that Urko and "later" Ursus are the top commanders in the settings the various stories take place, so we actually see them. But, as with you, this is speculation on my part.
Perhaps the plated armor worn by Ursus was contrived AFTER the time of
Urko. Is it, one wonders, bullet-proof? As to the armor...perhaps it is just a later design created for subsequent generals...Or, maybe it is that way because Urko would just be the rank of general, while the warlord Ursus could be the equivalent of a 4 star general, and because of his even higher ranking, his outfit would show this by being more elaborate. And as for it being bullet proof, this I know isn't so, just look at Beneath....Ursus gets shot (and killed) by Brent.

<.html

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> > The best case scenario in reviving the POTA franchise with a sequel would
> > be to dump Tim Burton and drop all the characters of the first movie.
> > Drop the awful look of the female chimps, but keep the more realistic
> > look of the male apes. Go in a completely different direction with a
> > new director and a new look. It's okay to stay in the same apes universe
> > as POTA 2001, but it doesn't necessarily need to since we already have
> > five different POTA universes anyway (when you include the book). Like
> > the earlier movies, show lots and lots of apes in broad daylight. And get
> > a much better script, hopefully with some clever social commentary like
> > each of the earlier movies. If it's only half as good as the earlier
> > movies it will be a great success.
> >
>
> Of course, I pretty much agree with this, although the movie didn't seem as
> bad to me after I finally gave it complete attention on DVD. My hopes were
> so high for it that the theatrical viewing was very painful, but then I was
> against this 're-invention' or 're-imagining' thing from the very start. For

I went through the opposite. I had poor expectations before seeing the
movie, but those low expectations were exceeded after seeing it in the
theater. Now after seeing it a 2nd time my opinion has gone back down.
Even though I own the movie now it will be a long time before I watch it
again.

> the sequel Fox should completely forget this 'vision' and do another take on
> it.

Yep. It's obvious now that Tim Burton ruined the movie. He was probably the
worst person that could have been chosen to do POTA. What was Fox thinking???

James Cameron would probably have done a superb job, given his track record
(Aliens, Terminator II) of doing sequels. Oliver Stone probably would have
done either a really good or a really bad POTA. On 2nd thought, he couldn't
have screwed it up worse than Burton.


-Tom

X-Mailer: CommuniGate Pro Web Mailer v.3.4.8
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 20:32:23 -0800
Message-ID: <web-9458803@...>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

>
> Dark is good. I liked the look of "Conquest", "The Tyrant", and even Burt=
>on's movies. I'd say the look is the least of my problems with it. When Bur=

Conquest's visual darkness came only at the end, and fit in well with the plot.
Each of the earlier movies, including Conquest, show lots of ape faces in
broad daylight for all or most of the length of the movie. POTA 2001 is about
90% darkness, which explains in part why it has none of the magic of the
earlier films.

>
> By "wizard" he might mean that they look like the flying monkeys from "The
>Wizard of Oz", which Burton says is the inspiration. At first I hated them,
>but the red costumes kinda grew on me. I guess my main complaint is it makes
>them look like a cross between football players and umpires. - - - Jeff
>

Didn't anyone bother to tell Tim Burton that POTA is not "The Wizard of Oz"?
That's like using Barney the dinosaur as an inspiration for Jurassic
Park. If only Burton had kept his damn dirty inspirations off of POTA.

.htmlIn a message dated 12/2/2001 10:54:04 PM Central Standard Time, melkor@... writes:

Didn't anyone bother to tell Tim Burton that POTA is not "The Wizard of Oz"?
That's like using Barney the dinosaur as an inspiration for Jurassic
Park.  If only Burton had kept his damn dirty inspirations off of POTA.

Very well put. I like the Barney / JP comparison too. <.html

I wouldn't say Burton was the worst person for the job. How about Michael
Bay or Chris Columbus. I think they would have out -sucked him. At least
Burton has a license to quirk and managed to squeeze in some interesting
stuff, though his nervous masters had him down play it. Problem A was the
script, Burton is only as good as his script, Problem B was the crushing
schedule (and it looks like they're going down that road again).

Absolutely, James Cameron would have been great, though I don't think he
was ever planning to direct. But a Cameron-scripted version would have been
awesome; he could've injected some believability into it. I would've liked
to see Burton directing a Cameron script, I'll tell you that. Yeah, Oliver
Stone would've been hit or miss but I would've liked to see his rendition.

I see more of it's flaws now that it's on video but it's holding up better
than I thought it would. The hunt is still my favorite, at least until Attar
and Thade get there.
- - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Melkor" <melkor@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 8:27 PM
Subject: Re: [pota] POTA 2001 2nd impression


> X-Mailer: CommuniGate Pro Web Mailer v.3.4.8
> Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 20:22:43 -0800
> Message-ID: <web-9458751@...>
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>
> > > The best case scenario in reviving the POTA franchise with a sequel
would
> > > be to dump Tim Burton and drop all the characters of the first movie.
> > > Drop the awful look of the female chimps, but keep the more realistic
> > > look of the male apes. Go in a completely different direction with a
> > > new director and a new look. It's okay to stay in the same apes
universe
> > > as POTA 2001, but it doesn't necessarily need to since we already have
> > > five different POTA universes anyway (when you include the book).
Like
> > > the earlier movies, show lots and lots of apes in broad daylight. And
get
> > > a much better script, hopefully with some clever social commentary
like
> > > each of the earlier movies. If it's only half as good as the earlier
> > > movies it will be a great success.
> > >
> >
> > Of course, I pretty much agree with this, although the movie didn't seem
as
> > bad to me after I finally gave it complete attention on DVD. My hopes
were
> > so high for it that the theatrical viewing was very painful, but then I
was
> > against this 're-invention' or 're-imagining' thing from the very start.
For
>
> I went through the opposite. I had poor expectations before seeing the
> movie, but those low expectations were exceeded after seeing it in the
> theater. Now after seeing it a 2nd time my opinion has gone back down.
> Even though I own the movie now it will be a long time before I watch it
> again.
>
>
>
> > the sequel Fox should completely forget this 'vision' and do another
take on
> > it.
>
> Yep. It's obvious now that Tim Burton ruined the movie. He was probably
the
> worst person that could have been chosen to do POTA. What was Fox
thinking???
>
> James Cameron would probably have done a superb job, given his track
record
> (Aliens, Terminator II) of doing sequels. Oliver Stone probably would
have
> done either a really good or a really bad POTA. On 2nd thought, he
couldn't
> have screwed it up worse than Burton.
>
>
> -Tom
>
>

Below is the result of your form. It was submitted by
(TheNapsterOfPorn@...) on Monday, December 3, 2001 at 01:54:19
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

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---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Beautiful. And people were saying Burton is a genius - bow your heads to
Melkor!

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Melkor [melkor@...]
> Sent: Monday, 3 December 2001 15:47
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [pota] Pointy red hats
>
>
> >
> > By "wizard" he might mean that they look like the flying
> monkeys from "The
> >Wizard of Oz", which Burton says is the inspiration. At first I
> hated them,
> >but the red costumes kinda grew on me. I guess my main complaint
> is it makes
> >them look like a cross between football players and umpires.
> - - - Jeff
> >
>
> Didn't anyone bother to tell Tim Burton that POTA is not "The
> Wizard of Oz"?
> That's like using Barney the dinosaur as an inspiration for Jurassic
> Park. If only Burton had kept his damn dirty inspirations off of POTA.
>
>

WTF?

Well, I guess it's not totally off topic.
There's probably some hot little minkys,
with wet monkey love.

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: veetus@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 12:39 AM

Subject: Re: [pota] POTA 2001 2nd impression

  I wouldn't say Burton was the worst person for the job. How about Michael
Bay or Chris Columbus. I think they would have out -sucked him. At least
Burton has a license to quirk and managed to squeeze in some interesting
stuff, though his nervous masters had him down play it. Problem A was the
script, Burton is only as good as his script, Problem B was the crushing
schedule (and it looks like they're going down that road again).

Absolutely, James Cameron would have been great, though I don't think he
was ever planning to direct. But a Cameron-scripted version would have been
awesome; he could've injected some believability into it. I would've liked
to see Burton directing a Cameron script, I'll tell you that. Yeah, Oliver
Stone would've been hit or miss but I would've liked to see his rendition.

I see more of it's flaws now that it's on video but it's holding up better
than I thought it would. The hunt is still my favorite, at least until Attar
and Thade get there.
                                                          - - - - Jeff






----- Original Message -----
From: "Melkor" <melkor@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 8:27 PM
Subject: Re: [pota] POTA 2001 2nd impression


> X-Mailer: CommuniGate Pro Web Mailer v.3.4.8
> Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 20:22:43 -0800
> Message-ID: <web-9458751@...>
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>
> > > The best case scenario in reviving the POTA franchise with a sequel
would
> > > be to dump Tim Burton and drop all the characters of the first movie.
> > > Drop the awful look of the female chimps, but keep the more realistic
> > > look of the male apes.  Go in a completely different direction with a
> > > new director and a new look.  It's okay to stay in the same apes
universe
> > > as POTA 2001, but it doesn't necessarily need to since we already have
> > > five different POTA universes anyway (when you include the book).
Like
> > > the earlier movies, show lots and lots of apes in broad daylight.  And
get
> > > a much better script, hopefully with some clever social commentary
like
> > > each of the earlier movies.  If it's only half as good as the earlier
> > > movies it will be a great success.
> > >
> >
> > Of course, I pretty much agree with this, although the movie didn't seem
as
> > bad to me after I finally gave it complete attention on DVD.  My hopes
were
> > so high for it that the theatrical viewing was very painful, but then I
was
> > against this 're-invention' or 're-imagining' thing from the very start.
For
>
> I went through the opposite.  I had poor expectations before seeing the
> movie, but those low expectations were exceeded after seeing it in the
> theater.  Now after seeing it a 2nd time my opinion has gone back down.
> Even though I own the movie now it will be a long time before I watch it
> again.
>
>
>
> > the sequel Fox should completely forget this 'vision' and do another
take on
> > it.
>
> Yep.  It's obvious now that Tim Burton ruined the movie.  He was probably
the
> worst person that could have been chosen to do POTA.  What was Fox
thinking???
>
> James Cameron would probably have done a superb job, given his track
record
> (Aliens, Terminator II) of doing sequels.  Oliver Stone probably would
have
> done either a really good or a really bad POTA.  On 2nd thought, he
couldn't
> have screwed it up worse than Burton.
>
>
> -Tom
>
> > Free e-mail by

.htmlIn a message dated 12/3/01 4:20:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, mslpel5@... writes:

I have read the script that Cameron was going to use and it was AWEFUL. You should be thanking God that he wasn't on the project.

I grew up with the original Apes movies and they have been my favorite movies since I was a kid.  I did not think any remake could even match up to the originals.  But when I saw Burton's film, I was so wrong.  They did EXACTLY what they needed to do with the movie.  I think the whole script would make Rod Serling smile in happiness.   



I'd be interested in hearing more about the Cameron script.  Can you give any details, Mike?

As for Rod Serling. . . . I think he would have appreciated a bit more social commentary in the Burton film -- and a lot better build-up to the ending.  Also, I've come to think of Serling as a rather minor player in the POTA universe.  While he was the first to adapt the book to screenplay form, his script isn't anything like what ended up being filmed.  I have a copy of his script.   I don't think it's very good.  I could explain, but not right now.  I wouldn't say it was awful, but I'm sure glad they got Michael Wilson for a re-write (and, I guess, John T. Kelley).   Serling's script was published in Ape Chronicles.  Anybody else read it?

-- Rory<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 4:24 PM

Subject: Re: [pota] POTA 2001 2nd impression

In a message dated 12/3/01 4:20:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, mslpel5@... writes:

I have read the script that Cameron was going to use and it was AWEFUL. You should be thanking God that he wasn't on the project.

I grew up with the original Apes movies and they have been my favorite movies since I was a kid.  I did not think any remake could even match up to the originals.  But when I saw Burton's film, I was so wrong.  They did EXACTLY what they needed to do with the movie.  I think the whole script would make Rod Serling smile in happiness.   

I'd be interested in hearing more about the Cameron script.  Can you give any details, Mike?

As for Rod Serling. . . . I think he would have appreciated a bit more social commentary in the Burton film -- and a lot better build-up to the ending.  Also, I've come to think of Serling as a rather minor player in the POTA universe.  While he was the first to adapt the book to screenplay form, his script isn't anything like what ended up being filmed.  I have a copy of his script.   I don't think it's very good.  I could explain, but not right now.  I wouldn't say it was awful, but I'm sure glad they got Michael Wilson for a re-write (and, I guess, John T. Kelley).   Serling's script was published in Ape Chronicles.  Anybody else read it?

-- Rory
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 4:24 PM

Subject: Re: [pota] POTA 2001 2nd impression

In a message dated 12/3/01 4:20:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, mslpel5@... writes:

I have read the script that Cameron was going to use and it was AWEFUL. You should be thanking God that he wasn't on the project.

I grew up with the original Apes movies and they have been my favorite movies since I was a kid.  I did not think any remake could even match up to the originals.  But when I saw Burton's film, I was so wrong.  They did EXACTLY what they needed to do with the movie.  I think the whole script would make Rod Serling smile in happiness.   

I'd be interested in hearing more about the Cameron script.  Can you give any details, Mike?

As for Rod Serling. . . . I think he would have appreciated a bit more social commentary in the Burton film -- and a lot better build-up to the ending.  Also, I've come to think of Serling as a rather minor player in the POTA universe.  While he was the first to adapt the book to screenplay form, his script isn't anything like what ended up being filmed.  I have a copy of his script.   I don't think it's very good.  I could explain, but not right now.  I wouldn't say it was awful, but I'm sure glad they got Michael Wilson for a re-write (and, I guess, John T. Kelley).   Serling's script was published in Ape Chronicles.  Anybody else read it?

-- Rory
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

They did EXACTLY what they needed to do with the movie.  I think the whole script would make Rod Serling smile in happiness.  

You know I'm thinking that too.  They can only get better.  The story starts where it needs to.<.html

.html

I think they would have out -sucked him. At least
Burton has a license to quirk and managed to squeeze in some interesting
stuff, though his nervous masters had him down play it. Problem A was the
script, Burton is only as good as his script, Problem B was the crushing
schedule (and it looks like they're going down that road again).

I think the tight schedule may have worked to his advantage in some ways.  He was able to sneak some things by.  Zanuck is even quoted in the books as saying that the kiss wasn't in this film.  Shows how much he knows.  Seems like Burton may have pulled a sly one.

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 12/3/01 8:04:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

   I wasn't thrilled with Serling's script either, Rory. It was interesting that it had the modern technology of Boulle. But I liked his dialogue they used in the makeup test.

                                                              - - - Jeff


That was one of the problems with Serling's script -- he was a poor dialogue writer.  Oh, his ideas were good, but his dialogue was flat.  My biggest problem with his script was that he gave it away that you were on earth very early on in the story.

-- Rory<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 9:52 PM

Subject: Re: [pota] POTA 2001 2nd impression

In a message dated 12/3/01 8:04:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

   I wasn't thrilled with Serling's script either, Rory. It was interesting that it had the modern technology of Boulle. But I liked his dialogue they used in the makeup test.

                                                              - - - Jeff

That was one of the problems with Serling's script -- he was a poor dialogue writer.  Oh, his ideas were good, but his dialogue was flat.  My biggest problem with his script was that he gave it away that you were on earth very early on in the story.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 12/3/01 9:57:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, mslpel5@... writes:

I won the script off eBay once and payed 45 dollars for it but the man stole my money and never sent it!

So, if you never got it then how do you know it was awful?

-- Rory<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 9:59 PM

Subject: Re: [pota] POTA 2001 2nd impression

In a message dated 12/3/01 9:57:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, mslpel5@... writes:

I won the script off eBay once and payed 45 dollars for it but the man stole my money and never sent it!

So, if you never got it then how do you know it was awful?

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Mike Le Master

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 7:06 PM

Subject: Re: [pota] POTA 2001 2nd impression

I'm talkin about Serlings script.

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 9:59 PM

Subject: Re: [pota] POTA 2001 2nd impression

In a message dated 12/3/01 9:57:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, mslpel5@... writes:

I won the script off eBay once and payed 45 dollars for it but the man stole my money and never sent it!

So, if you never got it then how do you know it was awful?

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: veetus@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, December 03, 2001 12:39 AM

Subject: Re: [pota] POTA 2001 2nd impression

Absolutely, James Cameron would have been great, though I don't think he
was ever planning to direct. But a Cameron-scripted version would have been
awesome; he could've injected some believability into it. I would've liked
to see Burton directing a Cameron script, I'll tell you that
                                                          - - - - Jeff

<.html

Hi there

I'm new round these parts, though I've been reading the list for a
few weeks, to see what it's all about. It's good to see a Yahoo list
dedicated to all things POTA.

Quick introduction: I'm 31 years old, and from the UK. I loved the
original Apes movies when I was a kid back in the 70s, and also
remember enjoying the TV show (my mum tells me that we used to sit
down and watch it as a family). In fact, I have a very vivid memory
of going to a local market with my parents, and them buying three
Apes dolls (Urko, Virdon and Zaius, if I recall). When we got home,
I went to look in the bag, only to find the dolls had disappeared -
they'd apparently "gone to Santa" already! Luckily, Santa brought
them back a few weeks later. But suffice to say, I no longer have
those dolls.

My current interest in POTA kicked off with the Burton movie. This
inspired me to buy the original films on DVD, and I've just recently
picked up the TV series. Which brings me to my question...

On the playing surface on disc four, I've noticed a large, irregular
(ie, wobbly) stain on it, radiating out from the centre at a
diamater of about 3 cm. It's not majorly discoloured, it's a lighter
silver colour.

But having done some research, I have a nasty feeling that this is
what's commonly known as 'DVD rot' (the theory is that it's caused
by the disc's two plastic layers separating and air getting to the
encoded surface, making the disc unplayable over time).

I've already returned one set (to Amazon) for a replacement, only to
find that that, too, had the same problem. Are all the disc fours
like this, or have Amazon just got a faulty batch?

Thanks for reading. I look forward to your comments.

Best wishes -

Darren

.htmlIn a message dated 12/4/01 5:30:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, darren@... writes:

But having done some research, I have a nasty feeling that this is
what's commonly known as 'DVD rot' (the theory is that it's caused
by the disc's two plastic layers separating and air getting to the
encoded surface, making the disc unplayable over time).

I've already returned one set (to Amazon) for a replacement, only to
find that that, too, had the same problem. Are all the disc fours
like this, or have Amazon just got a faulty batch?

Thanks for reading. I look forward to your comments.

Best wishes -

Darren

Hey Darren,

I, too, ordered my TV show DVDs from Amazon, and my disc four shows the same 'discolouring.'  However, the disc plays fine and I don't think there's anything to worry about.  I believe what you're seeing is not air between the layers but a contaminated plastic.  What it's contaminated with I don't know, but clearly something was not right when this batch of discs wwere pressed.  I've noticed these things on other discs, and in all cases the discs play fine.  Whether or not over many years this stays the case, I don't know, however, I'm not going to worry about it or even think of it anymore.

-- Rory<.html

Rory said:

> I, too, ordered my TV show DVDs from Amazon, and my disc four
> shows the same 'discolouring.' However, the disc plays fine and I
> don't think there's anything to worry about.

Thanks for your comments, Rory. Much appreciated. It's reassuring to
know that someone else has noticed the 'stain' - there's comfort in
numbers! This being this the case, I'll leave it be, rather than
take a chance on a second replacement.

I've not got around to to playing disc four yet, but I've stuck it
in the machine and had a quick jump around a few chapters, and like
you say, there didn't seem to be any problems. I was just a bit
worried that it might mess up over time. But if it does, I'll
complain directly to Fox.

Many thanks -

Darren

To: pota@yahoogroups.com
X-Mailer: CommuniGate Pro Web Mailer v.3.4.8
Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 08:52:09 -0800
Message-ID: <web-9481564@...>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Urko seems out of character in "The Horse Race", especially compared with
"The Tyrant". Except for "The Horse Race", Urko seems more disloyal
than corruptable. If the series had lasted I think we would have seen
Urko attempt a coup like Aldo at some point.

>
> There's also the line in "The Tyrant" : "Urko never approved of
> corruption". But perhaps the horse races are considered lightweight fun and
> his shenenigans not all that serious. Maybe the prefects do it out of
> respect, even when they have a lot to lose. You don't actually see Urko
> holding prefects at gunpoint. The ape world is not exactly a
> - - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 7:26 AM
> Subject: [pota] Re: The Horse Race
>
>
> > --- In pota@y..., danpiercy@y... wrote:
> > > I watched this last night and it's my fav from the television series
> > > DVDs right now.
> >
> > The only thing I had a problem with (in "The Horse Race"), is that
> > Urko is supposed to be a law-enforcement officer; remember when (in
> > "The Surgeon") he tells Zaius that "no crime is minor"--even a minor
> > burglary? Urko's ongoing scheme to bilk various prefects out of their
> > assets makes him a thief himself. Somehow he has the ability to
> > "insist" on these horse-races taking place: How? Is it a crime for a
> > prefect to tell Urko to "take a hike, I don't want to wager on any

Hey Everyone,

I just thought I'd pass this on in case anyone here is interested in the
Series 2 figures from Hasbro. A friend of mine runs a comics service called
M2 Comics and he sent me the following info:

Series 2 of the Hasbro POTA figures are offered in this month's Previews. The
figures are: Commander Leo Davidson, Krull, Ape Commander and Pericles. I
can get you a case of 8 figures for $76.74. Let me know by December 15 if
you want to order.

His name is Marc Bowker and he is a really nice guy. His email address is:
ybmundane@.... Here's his web site: m2comics.com.

If you decide to order tell him that Matt Totsky sent you.


Matt

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 4:09 AM

Subject: Re: [pota] POTA TV Series DVDs - a question

In a message dated 12/4/01 5:30:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, darren@... writes:

But having done some research, I have a nasty feeling that this is
what's commonly known as 'DVD rot' (the theory is that it's caused
by the disc's two plastic layers separating and air getting to the
encoded surface, making the disc unplayable over time).

I've already returned one set (to Amazon) for a replacement, only to
find that that, too, had the same problem. Are all the disc fours
like this, or have Amazon just got a faulty batch?

Thanks for reading. I look forward to your comments.

Best wishes -

Darren

Hey Darren,

I, too, ordered my TV show DVDs from Amazon, and my disc four shows the same 'discolouring.'  However, the disc plays fine and I don't think there's anything to worry about.  I believe what you're seeing is not air between the layers but a contaminated plastic.  What it's contaminated with I don't know, but clearly something was not right when this batch of discs wwere pressed.  I've noticed these things on other discs, and in all cases the discs play fine.  Whether or not over many years this stays the case, I don't know, however, I'm not going to worry about it or even think of it anymore.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

"The Horse Race" never really bothered me. It makes Urko more, if you'll
pardon the expression, "human". Everybody has a line they will and will not
cross. Obviously Urko sees nothing wrong with cheating on silly games. I'd
have more of a problem if he was squeaky clean. I relish the moments that
show even Virdon isn't squeaky clean.

- - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Melkor" <melkor@...>
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 9:07 AM
Subject: [pota] Re: The Horse Race


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> Urko seems out of character in "The Horse Race", especially compared with
> "The Tyrant". Except for "The Horse Race", Urko seems more disloyal
> than corruptable. If the series had lasted I think we would have seen
> Urko attempt a coup like Aldo at some point.
>
>
> >
> > There's also the line in "The Tyrant" : "Urko never approved of
> > corruption". But perhaps the horse races are considered lightweight fun
and
> > his shenenigans not all that serious. Maybe the prefects do it out of
> > respect, even when they have a lot to lose. You don't actually see Urko
> > holding prefects at gunpoint. The ape world is not exactly a
> > - - - Jeff
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
> > To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2001 7:26 AM
> > Subject: [pota] Re: The Horse Race
> >
> >
> > > --- In pota@y..., danpiercy@y... wrote:
> > > > I watched this last night and it's my fav from the television series
> > > > DVDs right now.
> > >
> > > The only thing I had a problem with (in "The Horse Race"), is that
> > > Urko is supposed to be a law-enforcement officer; remember when (in
> > > "The Surgeon") he tells Zaius that "no crime is minor"--even a minor
> > > burglary? Urko's ongoing scheme to bilk various prefects out of their
> > > assets makes him a thief himself. Somehow he has the ability to
> > > "insist" on these horse-races taking place: How? Is it a crime for a
> > > prefect to tell Urko to "take a hike, I don't want to wager on any
>
>
>

"Melkor" <melkor@...> wrote:

> Yep. It's obvious now that Tim Burton ruined the movie. He was probably

the

> worst person that could have been chosen to do POTA. What was Fox

thinking???

I actually think Tim Burton was a decent choice - one of the few choices
that I would not have had much of an argument with. The problem for me was
not Burton - it was that Fox hired him but then put too much pressure on him
to make their film rather than his. In the end, we got neither. Hiring
Burton and then expecting him to make the studio's film defeated the purpose
of getting someone like Burton in the first place.

I also think Cameron was a terrible choice, Christopher Columbus probably
would not have been particularly interesting at all, Oliver Stone would have
made an intriguing and probably more intelligent film, and Michael Bay would
quite possibly have made the worst abomination of a movie ever made.

Alan

.htmlIn a message dated 12/4/01 1:42:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

 Welcome, Darren. My disc 4 has the same thing and I didn't get mine from Amazon, I got it from Suncoast. So if it's a problem, it's in the manufacturing. I thought it meant there was no information on that part of the disc (that disc only has 2 episodes and no extras). Sometimes I wonder if companies pre-ruin their discs so down the road we have to buy the movies again. If it's true that DVDs "last a lifetime" and don't wear out like VHS (though personally I've never worn out a VHS after almost 20 years) then they lose money in the long run. Though I hear DVDs are rendered useless if they get scratches on them.

                                                         - - - Jeff



I'll bet that in only ten years we'll be buying movies on a format with higher resolution than DVDs.  I don't know if that format will still be on disc, or if an entire movie will be digitally stored on a chip, but high-definition TV is getting really close now, so the current DVD standard is going to have to change.  Maybe we shouldn't be buying so many DVDs (and believe me guys I wasted enough money already on laserdiscs) and instead just save our money for the goodies to come -- 16X9 HD TVs and such.

-- Rory<.html

I remember in 1994 I was told "the Unofficial Companion" was due to be
released and it had descriptions of the new film (due out 95/96) by Oliver
Stone. I was told the Zira character was into bondage and had a torture
rack!!!!

Did anyone else hear this about Stone's Zira?

Anyone hear anything else about Stone's script/plot?

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alan Maxwell [alan@...]

Oliver Stone would have made an intriguing and probably more intelligent
film, and Michael Bay would quite possibly have made the worst abomination
of a movie ever made.

Alan

.html I'll bet that in only ten years we'll be buying movies on a format with higher resolution than DVDs.  I don't know if that format will still be on disc, or if an entire movie will be digitally stored on a chip, but high-definition TV is getting really close now, so the current DVD standard is going to have to change.  Maybe we shouldn't be buying so many DVDs (and believe me guys I wasted enough money already on laserdiscs) and instead just save our money for the goodies to come -- 16X9 HD TVs and such.

-- Rory<.html

I read the Stone script (Terry Hayes), reported on it in "Ape Chronicles"
and there's a synopsis of it in every book about "Apes" (that's one thing I
will give the book "The Ape Chronicles", there's a good anaylsis of Stone's
script and how it relates to the "Lord of the Rings"). It's pretty standard
stuff but Stone didn't give much time to the project (see the book "Killer
Instinct" and the recent "Cinefantastique"). Sounds like what you heard was
a rumor.

- - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 12:35 PM
Subject: [pota] Oliver Stone's Zira


> I remember in 1994 I was told "the Unofficial Companion" was due to be
> released and it had descriptions of the new film (due out 95/96) by Oliver
> Stone. I was told the Zira character was into bondage and had a torture
> rack!!!!
>
> Did anyone else hear this about Stone's Zira?
>
> Anyone hear anything else about Stone's script/plot?
>
> Michael
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Alan Maxwell [alan@...]
>
> Oliver Stone would have made an intriguing and probably more intelligent
> film, and Michael Bay would quite possibly have made the worst abomination
> of a movie ever made.
>
> Alan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>