Planet of the Apes 2001 came in at #4 for the summer.

http://www.worldwideboxoffice.com/index.cgi?order=worldwide&start=2001&finish=2001&keyword=&links=amazon.com

Alriiiight...

Best.
Al


_____

.html

Planet of the Apes 2001 came in at #4 for the summer.

Yup!  And JP III may have won domestic grosses by a couple measly million, but worldwide, POTA2K1 Ruled The Planet!

<.html

The new apes dvd 2001 is selling well,anyone know how well the series
is sellig?How many units sold since nov 20th?Bryan

>From: "colicab743" <ryanc_873@...>
>Subject: Re: My site
>You have to pay for a place in a search engine like Yahoo! and stuff
>like that.

Nope -- it's free.

.html <.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Mike Le Master

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 3:08 PM

Subject: [pota] Planet of the Apes PC Cheat

Here ya go Alex.

 

This is a direct link to download the trainer for the PC Game.  I just tried it out and it works real well.  It gives you invulnerability and and like 1-2 hit knockouts when punching the apes.

 

Hope you enjoy

 

*Mike

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 12/13/2001 2:31:18 PM Central Standard Time, mslpel5@... writes:

oops...forgot the link:

I downloaded it but it wouldn't work.
Damn you Windows XP!

<.html

Here ya go Alex.

This is a direct link to download the trainer for the PC Game. I just tried
it out and it works real well. It gives you invulnerability and and like
1-2 hit knockouts when punching the apes.

Hope you enjoy

*Mike


Thanks Mike!
You are a champion of champions!
I'll be kicking some ape ass this weekend! :o)

Best.
Al




_____

"Calima 5021" <calima5021com@...>

> Anyone have any good links to Planet of the Apes PC Game Cheats.
> Unlimited Life and so on?

Why's that, Alex? Are you finding it too tough...?

Alan

Oh, I get it you have to have the game first.
I think first I should get a video card.
Damn you Hewlett Packard!

--- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:

> I am beginning to wonder if the "Alternate" Time Line replaces the nasty
> lawgiver with a nice one in a society that praises Caesar, not the Lawgiver.
>
> Maybe the statue of Caesar was to show how things have now changed.....
>
> Michael
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@y...]
>
> (the John
> Huston 'Lawgiver'--who doesn't hate humanity the way the author of the
> Sacred Scrolls does--teaches/preaches to a group of integrated Apes & Humans
> in 2670 near a statue of Caesar (whose history is later hidden by the
> Zaius-types, those "in-the-know", who had access to "history scrolls kept
> hidden from the masses" ["ESCAPE"].

It helps (to put this into perspective) to consider the chronologies
of the Good Lawgiver/Bad Lawgiver types.
In PLANET, Zaius tells Taylor that the Sacred Scrolls were written
"twelve hundred years ago"--i.e. circa 2755 A.D. (if we take PLANET as
taking place in 3955, due to the chronometer data in BENEATH and
ESCAPE).
In BATTLE, the "frame" scene shows the 'good' Lawgiver reading from a
history scroll to a mixed-species group of apes and humans in the year
2670 A.D.--which is 85 years prior to the date indicated above (2755).
So, the last scene of the 5th movie takes place only three EARTH TIME
years prior to Taylor's "final report" (2673), bringing the circular
timeline full circle.
This leaves 85 years for something to happen to upset the peaceful
balance obtained by the John Huston 'Lawgiver' in favor of a human-
hating Lawgiver who pens the document that later on is referred to as
"the Sacred Scrolls".
One reason I'm of the opinion that the POTA timeline is NOT changed by
the events of BATTLE (etc.) is that Zaius tells Taylor: "All my life
I've awaited your coming, and dreaded it--like Death itself!" In other
words, Zaius knew that he was living in the time when Taylor was due
to arrive back at Earth (somehow, albeit accidentally). It wasn't
known that Taylor would somehow end up back at Earth until after the
Milo-flown ship went back in time from 3955 to 1973; the scientists
who studied the "tapes" of the Taylor mission (using the same sort of
computer that Virdon desperately seeks to 'read' the info on the
Magnetic Flight Recorder disc) would have known Taylor's ship's
position in space (its telemetry) throughout the flight-time of the
voyage--and since he ends up back at Earth in 3955, the telemetry
record of his ship's computers would have told them this.
So, from 1973 on it is known on Earth that Taylor's ship will wind up
back on Earth in 3955, and somehow Zaius will inherit this tidbit of
information about his world's future, knowing that the planet will be
destroyed IN HIS OWN LIFETIME. Remember when he answers Lucius' line
"But what about the Future?" with: "I may just have saved it for you."
?
The Alpha Omega Bomb is still in existence at the end of BATTLE; the
Mendez community is just beginning to develop its Bomb-worshipping
religion at the end of BATTLE; a lot can happen in 85 years to sour
any peaceful relationship between idyllic apes and humans--including
war and plague (in "The Cure", there is reference to a plague during
"the Ornan period"; in times past, plagues were often blamed on ethnic
minorities--just as Jews were referred to as "vermin" in Nazi-era
propaganda, spreading literal and ideological "disease"). The
appearance of a supposedly "holy scripture" circa 2755 which--like the
intolerant scriptures of human religions--demonizes an entire 'race'
of people (in this case, human beings: "the beast Man, for he is the
Devil's pawn...") would only need a fanatical core group to rally
around its "message" and use violence to further its agenda.
So that, some 300 years later, after the subjugation of the human race
to slave-status, and after the successful inculcation of a propaganda-
based falsified history, Galen can be taught from childhood to believe
that "Apes have always ruled the world... ALWAYS!"
Hasslein's (and, after him, Virgil's) theory of Time being like a
freeway with an infinite number of lanes leading from the Past to the
Future, while possible, is not set in stone as Probable.
Unfortunately, the peaceful trend seen in 2670 is not perfect: an ape
child is seen pulling the pony-tail of a human child as the camera
pans from the Lawgiver past the congregation of ape and human children
to the statue of Caesar... who can be seen to be shedding a tear.
"Lawgiver, who knows about the Future?" one child asks; his reply:
"Perhaps only the Dead."
In other words, they don't know their own future... but they have to
wait... in hope. Hoping that when Taylor DOES arrive, the future
Caesar's parents saw happen will not have happened the same way.
I would like to believe that the Future of our real world will be
closer and closer to the Ideal. But we have to make it happen, and
each generation has to strive towards it, countering destructive
technology with constructive technology, and fighting against
worldviews that encourage violent conflict (such as the Osama bin
Laden "jihad" mind-set).

--- In pota@y..., mlccougar@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 12/10/2001 2:41:19 PM Central Standard Time,
> whitty@c... writes:
>
>
> > OK,
> >
> > At risk of me having a wild tantrum 'a la Thade' if this does not get a
> > response, I am still hopeful that I could one day send a list of extras to
> > Fox and ask them if they have these in the vaults.
> >
> > So let's start with Planet......
> >
> > What UNRELEASED stuff is out there by way of TV Spots, Trailers,
> > Interviews, Talk Shows, Deleted Scenes, Outtakes??
> >
> > Eventually I plan to send a list to Fox and say "Why isn't this stuff on
> > the DVD? Does it still exist?".
> >
> > **** Was the "Pregnant Nova" scene ever FILMED? I know there are
> > photos......
> >
> > **** What other deleted scenes may exist for "Planet"?
> >
> > I suggest we all attempt to respond, even if your response is to copy and
> > paste "I don't know", then we can have a show of those present on the list.
> >
> > Michael
> >
>
> Well, here I am responding to you. This is definitely the type of thing I'd
> like to see in here more often. Good choice for a subject .
>
> Anyway, as far as unreleased footage goes, I myself don't know off too much
> other than the little bits that were in the NATO feature / featurettes. BUT,
> I have also heard of a scene of the astronauts in the Forbidden Zone setting
> under the dew collector (later worn by Dodge when they are in the cornfield
> scenes.) I did not get it clear as to whether or not he only has this as a
> still or if he has actual footage of it. Next time I contact him, I will
> re-ask him about this just to make sure I didn't misunderstand him.
>
> As far as the pregnancy scene, while I, like you, have seen photos, I am not
> sue if it was filmed. My guess would be "Yes" it was. I suppose its possible
> that they would just take pics, but why bother doing that? I mean if you're
> all set up to shoot the scene, you might as well film it then too.
>
> Well, I did think of a few more little bits that weren't included (again,
> I've only seen pictures of these.) There was a scene that took place after
> Lucius and Zira helped Taylor and Nova escape. They were stopped by some
> hunters and told they need to commandeer their wagon, and Lucius tells them
> to stay away because the beasts in their wagon are rabid. After hearing that,
> the gorillas let the pass. Another bit is Lucius asking Cornelius who put the
> scarecrows up. Cornelius says "The hunt club." to which Lucius asks "To scare
> humans?" and Cornelius repling "To scare us too, we're entering the Forbidden
> Zone." I've seen this last bit mentioned in both the comic adaption, as well
> as the back of one of the movie cards. (In the comic, he asks Zira, on the
> card, he asks Cornelius.)
>
> So that is some possibly unreleased footage to add to the list for Planet.
>
> As far as Beneath, I know the entire Ursus speech wasn't incuded, so that's a
> start right there. There was also a (possible) scene of Ursus, Zauis, and the
> minister debating the invasion. As before, this was in the comic adaption,
> and may not have been shot at all.
>
> Escape: I know of the scene at the beginning of the Ape-O-Nauts in the ship.
> As for any other footage, who knows?
>
> The other 2...Well, we know that Conquest was to be different, so I'm sure
> that footage exists from that. (After all, he had to cut a lot to make it PG.
> Who knows what was left on the cutting room floor. Maybe just more bloody
> revolt scenes, maybe additional footage.) As for Battle, I only know of the
> footage included in tv airings as well as the Japanese video discs.

The "hunt-leader-attempting-to-commandeer-Zira's-wagon" scene must
have been filmed: there is at least one "still" featuring this scene
(it can be seen in one of the articles in Marvel's POTA magazine--I
don't have it with me at the moment, but I know it's there).
Interestingly enough, the "hunt leader" in the scene in question--as
Zira & Lucius drive off with Taylor & Nova--says, "The only good human
is a dead human"... the same 'catch-phrase' Ursus uses during his
rabble-rouser speech in BENEATH. In the novel I'm writing, Ursus IS
the hunt leader in the above scene--yet he's NOT the hunt leader who
asks Zaius "What's Dr. Zira trying to prove?" In my scenario (which
you all, of course, don't have to take as 'gospel'/'canon'), the prior
hunt leader dies (mysteriously) later that day, and it is HIS funeral
that Taylor inadvertently interrupts during his escape attempt ("...he
was a model for us all, a gorilla to remember; HUNTER, warrior,
defender of the Faith, cherished husband, generous master... yes, he
was a font of simian kindness...")
After he dies, Ursus succeeds him as "hunt leader", then (in my
novel's scenario). And the (deleted) scene involving the attempt to
commandeer Zira's wagon will be included in my novel.

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 12/11/01 1:33:55 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> veetus@e... writes:
>
>
> > Well, I'm more easygoing about it. I acknowledge the logic gaps but I
> > just enjoy the concept. And I accept the limitations (lower budgets on the
> > sequels, having to crank out a TV episode a week). The chronological gaps
> > are just part of the beast. But what's wrong with people trying to fill in
> > those gaps? There's no sound in space either, so "Star Wars" and "Star
> > Trek" are f****d too. At least "Apes" didn't break that one (until Burton).
> > If they started over and the original was the only one I think we'd be the
> > poorer for it. - -
> > - - Jeff
> >
> >
>
> Fox would sure be poorer for it. I don't see anything wrong with filling in
> the gaps, it's just sometimes I really disagree with the logic of what fans
> are trying to do.
>
> -- Rory

Couldn't the same 'disagreement' be directed at Fox for having Dehn
(first) and the TV show writers (later) "fill in the gaps" by writing
their respective entries in the POTA series? At one time, there was
only ONE "Planet of the Apes" work: Pierre Boulle's novel "La Planete
des Singes". When the 1st movie came out, it was NOT exactly faithful
to Boulle's original (which, I think, was a good thing: as good as
Boulle's novel was, the movie was an improvement--a rarity, that.).
Heston referred to the 1st movie as "the only story" to be told using
the scenario; he didn't want to do any sequels, considering them to be
"Andy Hardy stuff".
Thankfully, Heston's view was not the prevailing one. Maurice Evans,
in an interview, voiced the opinion that at long as there is a story
to tell, a sequel is permissible. In fact, I believe he considered the
story told in BENEATH to be--in certain ways--more cogent and hard-
hitting than PLANET. I'd have to agree, to a point: when I was a kid
and first saw the Apes movies, it was BENEATH that had the biggest
impact on me. Granted, PLANET is a better film (in virtually every
way); but the juggernaut of impending War depicted in BENEATH (where
both sides have ecclesiastical sanction for this "holy war") built up
more tension for me as a viewer. Its ending astounded me as much or
more than the "Statue of Liberty" ending of PLANET: Taylor detonating
the Doomsday Bomb--which happens, I think, because Nova had been taken
from him ("I should let them all die! The gorillas, every damn--! Look
what it comes to! It's time it was finished. Finished!"). Just think:
if the gorilla soldier had NOT killed Nova with his burst of gunfire,
Taylor would have probably worked harder to PREVENT the detonation of
the Bomb.
From that point on, Paul Dehn had even more stories to tell, and
despite the fact that he was a trifle careless with the 'factual
details' from film-to-film, those stories were worth telling.
Others may have a hard time watching the TV series, but I think that
they--despite their limitations--were worth telling; watching them is
certainly worth it to me.
So far, I'm not that impressed with the calibre of writing on the new
STAR TREK show "Enterprise". And don't get me started on the gushy
ballad "theme" song they use for their opening credits! Why the hell
couldn't they get, say, Horner's music from WRATH OF KHAN for the show
(just as NEXT GEN got Goldsmith's music from ST:TMP)?

So far, I'm not that impressed with the calibre of writing on the new
STAR TREK show "Enterprise". And don't get me started on the gushy
ballad "theme" song they use for their opening credits! Why the hell
couldn't they get, say, Horner's music from WRATH OF KHAN for the show
(just as NEXT GEN got Goldsmith's music from ST:TMP)?

I'm glad you mentioned that. WTF !?! I always apreciated the fact that
though the writing on the various ST shows wasn't always up to standards set
by some of their better episodes, at least they had decient music, until now.
What they hell is that stinkburger of an opening theme? Did the person in
charge of sane musical choices get fired? If not, he should be! As to the
matter of Beneath, I thought it was a pretty powerful story. The only things
wrong with it were the fake Cornelius, cheap effects and cheesy masks. We
all know, there isn't a backround far enough back to use those background
masks. In fact if they could have fixed that, I could live with cheap
effects and a fake Cornelius.

In the novel I'm writing, Ursus IS
the hunt leader in the above scene--yet he's NOT the hunt leader who
asks Zaius "What's Dr. Zira trying to prove?" In my scenario (which
you all, of course, don't have to take as 'gospel'/'canon'), the prior
hunt leader dies (mysteriously) later that day, and it is HIS funeral
that Taylor inadvertently interrupts during his escape attempt ("...he
was a model for us all, a gorilla to remember; HUNTER, warrior,
defender of the Faith, cherished husband, generous master... yes, he
was a font of simian kindness...")
After he dies, Ursus succeeds him as "hunt leader", then (in my
novel's scenario). And the (deleted) scene involving the attempt to
commandeer Zira's wagon will be included in my novel.

You know if you try to publish Fox is going to sue. You know that, right?

.html<.html

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Why's that, Alex? Are you finding it too tough...?

Alan


Hey, every ape fan needs his/her ape fix every once and a while. :o)
Now time to kick some ape ass! :o)
Thanks again Mike, it works great!

Best.
Al




_____

That's an interesting idea, Zauis' line "All my life I've awaited your
coming and dreaded it" refering specifically to Taylor. I've always assumed
he meant it toward intelligent, "mutant" humans in general. That would be
one way to buttress the circular time theory.

I just got done with the #4 comic based on Burton's movie, and one of the
apes prays to the "Lawgiver". They're kind of slinking back to the
originals. Actually, that's not fair. The comic books have been trying to
give the originals their due all along. In "The Human War", there's a
reference to the Ap' Jac munitions factory, one page has a Minister Rodi
(Roddy?) complaining about a hijacking at the Mikdoul (McDowell?) foundries,
and one witness to a massacre is "Trooper Bouel" (Boulle?) who has "a very
interesting tale to tell, one which explained a good many things". i'm
really getting into these comics. It's great to have 'Ape" stories monthly
again.

- - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 6:52 PM
Subject: [pota] Re: Circlar vs Hasslein


> --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > I am beginning to wonder if the "Alternate" Time Line replaces the nasty
> > lawgiver with a nice one in a society that praises Caesar, not the
Lawgiver.
> >
> > Maybe the statue of Caesar was to show how things have now changed.....
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@y...]
> >
> > (the John
> > Huston 'Lawgiver'--who doesn't hate humanity the way the author of the
> > Sacred Scrolls does--teaches/preaches to a group of integrated Apes &
Humans
> > in 2670 near a statue of Caesar (whose history is later hidden by the
> > Zaius-types, those "in-the-know", who had access to "history scrolls
kept
> > hidden from the masses" ["ESCAPE"].
>
> It helps (to put this into perspective) to consider the chronologies
> of the Good Lawgiver/Bad Lawgiver types.
> In PLANET, Zaius tells Taylor that the Sacred Scrolls were written
> "twelve hundred years ago"--i.e. circa 2755 A.D. (if we take PLANET as
> taking place in 3955, due to the chronometer data in BENEATH and
> ESCAPE).
> In BATTLE, the "frame" scene shows the 'good' Lawgiver reading from a
> history scroll to a mixed-species group of apes and humans in the year
> 2670 A.D.--which is 85 years prior to the date indicated above (2755).
> So, the last scene of the 5th movie takes place only three EARTH TIME
> years prior to Taylor's "final report" (2673), bringing the circular
> timeline full circle.
> This leaves 85 years for something to happen to upset the peaceful
> balance obtained by the John Huston 'Lawgiver' in favor of a human-
> hating Lawgiver who pens the document that later on is referred to as
> "the Sacred Scrolls".
> One reason I'm of the opinion that the POTA timeline is NOT changed by
> the events of BATTLE (etc.) is that Zaius tells Taylor: "All my life
> I've awaited your coming, and dreaded it--like Death itself!" In other
> words, Zaius knew that he was living in the time when Taylor was due
> to arrive back at Earth (somehow, albeit accidentally). It wasn't
> known that Taylor would somehow end up back at Earth until after the
> Milo-flown ship went back in time from 3955 to 1973; the scientists
> who studied the "tapes" of the Taylor mission (using the same sort of
> computer that Virdon desperately seeks to 'read' the info on the
> Magnetic Flight Recorder disc) would have known Taylor's ship's
> position in space (its telemetry) throughout the flight-time of the
> voyage--and since he ends up back at Earth in 3955, the telemetry
> record of his ship's computers would have told them this.
> So, from 1973 on it is known on Earth that Taylor's ship will wind up
> back on Earth in 3955, and somehow Zaius will inherit this tidbit of
> information about his world's future, knowing that the planet will be
> destroyed IN HIS OWN LIFETIME. Remember when he answers Lucius' line
> "But what about the Future?" with: "I may just have saved it for you."
> ?
> The Alpha Omega Bomb is still in existence at the end of BATTLE; the
> Mendez community is just beginning to develop its Bomb-worshipping
> religion at the end of BATTLE; a lot can happen in 85 years to sour
> any peaceful relationship between idyllic apes and humans--including
> war and plague (in "The Cure", there is reference to a plague during
> "the Ornan period"; in times past, plagues were often blamed on ethnic
> minorities--just as Jews were referred to as "vermin" in Nazi-era
> propaganda, spreading literal and ideological "disease"). The
> appearance of a supposedly "holy scripture" circa 2755 which--like the
> intolerant scriptures of human religions--demonizes an entire 'race'
> of people (in this case, human beings: "the beast Man, for he is the
> Devil's pawn...") would only need a fanatical core group to rally
> around its "message" and use violence to further its agenda.
> So that, some 300 years later, after the subjugation of the human race
> to slave-status, and after the successful inculcation of a propaganda-
> based falsified history, Galen can be taught from childhood to believe
> that "Apes have always ruled the world... ALWAYS!"
> Hasslein's (and, after him, Virgil's) theory of Time being like a
> freeway with an infinite number of lanes leading from the Past to the
> Future, while possible, is not set in stone as Probable.
> Unfortunately, the peaceful trend seen in 2670 is not perfect: an ape
> child is seen pulling the pony-tail of a human child as the camera
> pans from the Lawgiver past the congregation of ape and human children
> to the statue of Caesar... who can be seen to be shedding a tear.
> "Lawgiver, who knows about the Future?" one child asks; his reply:
> "Perhaps only the Dead."
> In other words, they don't know their own future... but they have to
> wait... in hope. Hoping that when Taylor DOES arrive, the future
> Caesar's parents saw happen will not have happened the same way.
> I would like to believe that the Future of our real world will be
> closer and closer to the Ideal. But we have to make it happen, and
> each generation has to strive towards it, countering destructive
> technology with constructive technology, and fighting against
> worldviews that encourage violent conflict (such as the Osama bin
> Laden "jihad" mind-set).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I think the gorilla who says, "What's Dr. Zira trying to prove?" is
supposed to be Marcus (as named in publicity and the soundtrack album).

- - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: <LordTZer0@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 8:06 PM
Subject: Re: [pota] Re: A New Topic - Potential DVD material for "Planet"


> In the novel I'm writing, Ursus IS
> the hunt leader in the above scene--yet he's NOT the hunt leader who
> asks Zaius "What's Dr. Zira trying to prove?" In my scenario (which
> you all, of course, don't have to take as 'gospel'/'canon'), the prior
> hunt leader dies (mysteriously) later that day, and it is HIS funeral
> that Taylor inadvertently interrupts during his escape attempt ("...he
> was a model for us all, a gorilla to remember; HUNTER, warrior,
> defender of the Faith, cherished husband, generous master... yes, he
> was a font of simian kindness...")
> After he dies, Ursus succeeds him as "hunt leader", then (in my
> novel's scenario). And the (deleted) scene involving the attempt to
> commandeer Zira's wagon will be included in my novel.
>
> You know if you try to publish Fox is going to sue. You know that, right?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.htmlIn a message dated 12/14/2001 12:25:19 AM Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

 I think the gorilla who says, "What's Dr. Zira trying to prove?" is
supposed to be Marcus (as named in publicity and the soundtrack album).

                                                      - - - - Jeff

You are correct. He is named Marcus in the publicity, etc...But in the film credits, he is called simply Hunt Leader. <.html

.htmlIn a message dated 12/14/01 1:25:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

 I think the gorilla who says, "What's Dr. Zira trying to prove?" is
supposed to be Marcus (as named in publicity and the soundtrack album).

                                                      - - - - Jeff

Marcus is the gorilla that pushes Zira away from Taylor as he's hanging in the net.  He says to Zira, "Security Police."  That's him and he was played by an actor named Bob Lombardo.  He's also the gorilla photographer that says, "Smile," and he is the gorilla that stops Zira and Lucius as they leave the city in a scene that was cut.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 12/14/01 2:15:05 AM Eastern Standard Time, mlccougar@... writes:

In a message dated 12/14/2001 12:25:19 AM Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

I think the gorilla who says, "What's Dr. Zira trying to prove?" is
supposed to be Marcus (as named in publicity and the soundtrack album).

                                                     - - - - Jeff

You are correct. He is named Marcus in the publicity, etc...But in the film credits, he is called simply Hunt Leader.


Wrong.  I just explained it to you guys.

-- Rory<.html

-----Original Message-----
From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@...]
Sent: Friday, 14 December 2001 13:52

One reason I'm of the opinion that the POTA timeline is NOT changed by the
events of BATTLE (etc.) is that Zaius tells Taylor: "All my life I've
awaited your coming, and dreaded it--like Death itself!" In other words,
Zaius knew that he was living in the time when Taylor was due to arrive back
at Earth (somehow, albeit accidentally).

Patrick,

I'm still not sure. I think even the script writers had their own opinions
which were muddled at times. I like the way you explain this, but I think
maybe Zaius was talking generally about the arrival of a person or thing
that could challenge the narrow religious beliefs of the ape community (and
confirm the origins of history), rather than talking of the arrival of
TAYLOR from the past.

But then "awaited your coming" sure does imply he had a book somewhere
saying there's an astronaut on the way. However, at the time of Planet
there was no "Escape", so it would be silly to assume that anyone knew
anything about Taylor's fate as he was actually travelling to another
planet. Brent followed the flight path and was still very surprised to end
up on Earth in the future (by the way, did Brent launch before or sfter Milo
et al arrived on Earth???).

This is certainly one of the many mysterious lines in "Planet" that are
never actually fully explained. I may be wrong, but I attribute this to the
writing style of Serling. Far from writing for a sequel, he leaves
unexplained (or half explained) mysteries littered throughout. This
actually has the effect that people end up wanting to take the mysteries and
explain them, but obviously not necessarily the way the creater of the
mystery would have explained (if ever explained at all).

-----Original Message-----
From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@...]
Sent: Friday, 14 December 2001 13:52

So, from 1973 on it is known on Earth that Taylor's ship will wind up back
on Earth in 3955, and somehow Zaius will inherit this tidbit of information
about his world's future, knowing that the planet will be destroyed IN HIS
OWN LIFETIME. Remember when he answers Lucius' line "But what about the
Future?" with: "I may just have saved it for you."

Again, this may just be Zauis paranoia rather than "I just stopped the world
from ending" which was furthest from the mind of the writers of Planet and
only came about thanks to Chuck.

http://www.apple.com/trailers/columbia/spiderman/

The new Spiderman trialer has music from the Matrix, Planet of the Apes
2001(danny elfman) and postthumus (pota 2001 trailer).

POTA 2001! Setting the trend!
YEAH BABY!

Best.
Al


_____

My set up won't play it, sir. Could you create an accessible version? Oh,
sorry, you're on vacation. How is Hawaii?

- - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Calima 5021" <calima5021com@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 2:18 PM
Subject: [pota] POTA 2001 Setting the Trend!


>
>
> http://www.apple.com/trailers/columbia/spiderman/
>
> The new Spiderman trialer has music from the Matrix, Planet of the Apes
> 2001(danny elfman) and postthumus (pota 2001 trailer).
>
> POTA 2001! Setting the trend!
> YEAH BABY!
>
> Best.
> Al
>
>
> _____

On CNN Headline News there was a screen graphic that said . . .

Planet of the Apes is number one in video sales and rentals.

I knew it was but I love seeing public confirmation.

My set up won't play it, sir. Could you create an accessible version? Oh,
sorry, you're on vacation. How is Hawaii?

- - - Jeff

I keep trying to get out...and they keep pulling me back in!
Godfather III :o)

www.calima5021.com/spiderman.mpg
Mpeg 8.2 megs

Enjoy.

Al


_____

Thanks, Alex! That's a great trailer, which means the movie will suck.
It's appropriate that Danny Elfman's "Apes" music is in it, 'cause Elfman is
doing the "Spiderman" music. - - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Calima 5021" <calima5021com@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 7:43 PM
Subject: [pota] Re: POTA 2001 Setting the Trend!


>
> My set up won't play it, sir. Could you create an accessible version? Oh,
> sorry, you're on vacation. How is Hawaii?
>
> - - - Jeff
>
> I keep trying to get out...and they keep pulling me back in!
> Godfather III :o)
>
> www.calima5021.com/spiderman.mpg
> Mpeg 8.2 megs
>
> Enjoy.
>
> Al
>
>
> _____

Thanks, Alex! That's a great trailer, which means the movie will suck.
It's appropriate that Danny Elfman's "Apes" music is in it, 'cause Elfman is
doing the "Spiderman" music. - - - - Jeff


hehehe!!
That's funny.
With spidy on May 3rd and SW on May 16th, it's going to be one kick ass
Spring! And no doubt better than the whole summer!
hehehe!!

Best.
Al


_____

.htmlCan anyone in the group tell me how many issue of this magazine were published?? I know it goes to at least #111, (which has part of the Battle adaption in it.) Any information is appreciated. Thanks.

Also, I have several duplicate issues of this mag. If anyone has duplicates they'd like to trade, let me know. Or, I'll trade for almost anything else Ape. If you do, please conatct me privately, thank you.<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 12/14/2001 11:20:07 PM Central Standard Time, mlccougar@... writes:

conatct

Though I'm sure you all knew what I meant, I just wanted to correct it anyway. That should read "contact".<.html

.html Can anyone in the group tell me how many issue of this magazine were published?? I know it goes to at least #111, (which has part of the Battle adaption in it.) Any information is appreciated. Thanks.

Also, I have several duplicate issues of this mag. If anyone has duplicates they'd like to trade, let me know. Or, I'll trade for almost anything else Ape. If you do, please conatct me privately, thank you.
<.html

Happy Holidays!

> saying there's an astronaut on the way. However, at the time of

Planet

> there was no "Escape", so it would be silly to assume that anyone

knew

> anything about Taylor's fate as he was actually travelling to

another

Although I do get your meaning [the act of writing the scripts]
the "time" [events] of 'Escape' happened before the "time" [events
after the crash] of 'Planet', no? ;-) Zaius could have that secret
scroll of knowledge, though I do feel his statements to Taylor where
of the general "forboding"[sp?] nature.

> planet. Brent followed the flight path and was still very

surprised to end

> up on Earth in the future (by the way, did Brent launch before or

sfter Milo

> et al arrived on Earth???).

Yeah, what about that? There is no mention of Brent's mission
in 'Escape', right?

Of all 'Ape" lore this is the one thing that I could never figure
out. How did Milo raise the spaceship from the sea and get that
sucker operational?

Best Wishes!
J.

>From: mlccougar@...
>Subject: Planet of the Apes UK comics
>Can anyone in the group tell me how many issue of this magazine were
>published?? I know it goes to at least #111, (which has part of the Battle
>adaption in it.) Any information is appreciated. Thanks.

Sure -- here's the breakdown...
* Planet of the Apes #1-87
* Planet of the Apes and Dracula Lives #88-123
* Mighty World of Marvel Featuring Hulk and P.O.T.A. #231-246
Total: 139 issues between the three titles. In the course of those issues,
the entire U.S. series was reprinted, and some of the stories (mostly the
film adaptations) were reprinted twice.

saying there's an astronaut on the way. However, at the time of
Planet there was no "Escape", so it would be silly to assume that
anyone knew anything about Taylor's fate as he was actually travelling
to another

>
> Although I do get your meaning [the act of writing the scripts] the "time" [events] of 'Escape' happened before the "time" [events after the crash] of 'Planet', no? ;-) Zaius could have that secret scroll of knowledge, though I do feel his statements to Taylor where of the general "forboding"[sp?] nature.
>

planet. Brent followed the flight path and was still very surprised
to end up on Earth in the future (by the way, did Brent launch before
or after Milo et al arrived on Earth???).

>

Yeah, what about that? There is no mention of Brent's mission in
'Escape', right?

>

Of all 'Ape" lore this is the one thing that I could never figure out.
How did Milo raise the spaceship from the sea and get that sucker
operational?

>

Best Wishes!
J.

I could write pages of stuff here, but I've already done that at
another website that a guy calling himself "ANSANAUT" has going (it's
called 'goingfaster' I think; I usually access it by using LYCOS and
typing in ANSA Hasslein Icarus, which gets me to a list of his
webpages; feel free to peruse his site: my postings are on his
"Message Board" section). As I've posted here before, he and I have a
heated disagreement regarding various aspects of the "Taylor mission"
(he thinks Taylor's mission was to Alpha Centauri, dismissing the "320
Lightyears...constellation Orion" info Taylor tells Landon as just so
much smoke he's blowing up the other's ass).
Logically, Brent could NOT have launched after the Ape-onauts
landed, since he would then have known that there are intelligent apes
living on Earth in the year 3955.
Furthermore, Cornelius tells Hasslein about having had access to
"history scrolls that were kept hidden from the masses". When would
Cornelius have had an opportunity to peruse such scrolls? I think in-
between PLANET and BENEATH (during which time the heresy charges are
dismissed and he & Zira become "lawfully wedded"--remember, they were
only engaged to be married in PLANET). During the "in-between" time,
Cornelius and Zira must have had some sort of meeting-of-the-minds
with Zaius, who--at the end of PLANET--had told them that they would
both stand trial for heresy, yet in BENEATH is overly applauded by
Zira during Ursus' speech. Perhaps Zaius feared the growing power of
Ursus to such an extent that he needed all the support he could
muster--even that of the chimpanzee intellectual faction--so he cuts a
deal with Zira & Cornelius who offer him their support (and vow to
keep quiet about their controversial findings in the Forbidden Zone)
in exchange for access to the records that Zaius must have had ("and
you're right: I have always known about Man...").
Zaius had to have inherited certain written records revealing the
truth of the Past of the planet--what Cornelius calls "history scrolls
kept hidden from the masses", scrolls which mention the Plague that
kills the Dogs & Cats, the ape named "Aldo" who is the first ape
recorded to have said "No!" to a human, etc. In the script for ESCAPE,
Cornelius--referring to the 'Aldo' bit in the history scrolls--says
that it is "fully documented in the Secret Scrolls". For years, prior
to actually getting the ESCAPE script [check out "SCRIPTCITY" to get
your copy], I had thought that Cornelius said "fully documented in the
Sacred Scrolls"--but "Sacred" and "Secret" sound a hell of a lot
alike. Even the subtitlers for the DVDs got this wrong; evidently,
they subtitled it "Sacred" based on what they thought they heard
McDowall saying rather than on what the script actually has him
saying, having heard references to "the Sacred Scrolls" in PLANET.
In addition, in ESCAPE, the President mentions that the ship Milo
navigated is "one of two" that had been considered lost. Now, when
ESCAPE was made, the writers meant for us to think of the "two" lost
ships as the two seen in PLANET and BENEATH, and that the one from
PLANET was the same one we see in ESCAPE. However, there's a problem
here; the ship in PLANET looks similar to the ESCAPE ship from the
windows-and-forward, but did NOT have a 'gull-wing' hatch on the port
side of the cockpit; furthermore, it had 4 seats and 4 hibernacula
that extend further back than is possible in the short capsule we see
in ESCAPE (which has only 3 seats--seen in filmed-yet-edited footage--
and absolutely NO room for the hibernation bunks). In other words, the
ESCAPE ship CANNOT BE THE SAME SHIP SEEN IN "PLANET". Yet it IS
referred to as "the one commanded by Colonel Taylor". Hmmm.
Added to this is the fact that Virdon's ship had to have left
Earth prior to the splashdown of the Ape-onauts: otherwise, Virdon &
Burke wouldn't have been surprised to find talking apes in the future,
and they would have mentioned Zira & Cornelius, etc.
In the novel I'm writing, I had to come up with a scenario that
makes sense of all these 'flubs'/errors/mistakes. In a nutshell, it
goes like this:

1. Virdon's mission to Alpha Centauri leaves Earth in the summer
of 1971 on a 2-or-3 day (SHIP TIME) voyage, during which time the
planet Earth will age about 9 years each way (THERE and BACK); they
arrive in 1980 (EARTH TIME), synchronize their SHIP TIME chronometer
with their EARTH TIME chronometer (this is why the opening credits of
the TV show show both the SHIP TIME and EARTH TIME clocks in synch on
8-19-1980 (Tuesday, 19 August 1980) prior to the time warp), and
before they have a chance to reconnoiter the Alpha Centauri system in
which they've just arrived ("we were approaching Alpha Centauri...")
and head back to Earth (to arrive in 1989/1990), they encounter a
Black Hole orbiting unseen in the Alpha C system ("...we ran into
radioactive turbulence..."). The close approach to the Black Hole
causes their ship to experience gravitationally-induced time dilation
effects (the "time warp" which speeds their EARTH TIME chronometer
from 8-19-1980 to 7-14-3085 (14 July 3085). Virdon orders Jones to
activate the "Automatic Homing Device"--obviously, a computer program
of sorts which is intended to send their ship on a homeward
trajectory; the "Hassleinian hyperdrive/warp drive" which propelled
their ship to Alpha Centauri in the first place undergoes an emergency
power boost (to free them from their proximity to the unplanned-for
Black Hole), and they zip back to Earth the 4.34 LightYears distance
in the warp equivalent of "overdrive"... and end up going BACKWARD
THROUGH TIME, from 7-14-3085 to 3-21-3085, 115 "retro-days" of EARTH
TIME (and only moments of SHIP TIME). After they crash and Farrow
rescues the two survivors, Prefect Veska has his gorillas smash up the
interior of the vehicle, causing the EARTH TIME chronometer to
"freeze" on the date 3-21-3085, which Virdon & Burke see the next
morning when Farrow leads them to the ship. Thus, the ship flown by
Virdon/Burke/Jones out to Alpha Centauri is one of the two ships
mentioned by the President in ESCAPE.
2. The other ship the President mentions is the ONE ship
commanded by Colonel George Taylor, which lifts off from Cape Kennedy
on 15 January 1972 and heads out to a distant star system 320
LightYears away in Orion. BUT--and this is where my scenario gets
controversial, folks--this ONE ship has to account for not only the
ship seen in PLANET, but also the ships seen in BENEATH and ESCAPE
(since the ESCAPE ship, as I've said before, is referred to as "the
one commanded by Colonel Taylor). My solution to this conundrum can be
gleaned by comparing the scenario with Pierre Boulle's original book.
In "La Planete des Singes", Professor Antelle's interstellar ship
leaves Earth in 2500 A.D. for Betelgeuse (some 300 LightYears away)...
but the astronauts land on "Soror" in a shuttlecraft, which is called
a "launch" in Xan Fielding's translation (from "une chaloupe" in
Boulle's French). If this were STAR TREK, they would have "beamed
down" to the surface, but since teleportation doesn't seem to be part
of the hardware at their disposal, they have to take a smaller ship
down to the surface--one of three which Ulysse Merou mentions. In my
scenario, Taylor's ship is really a sort of "mothership" which has 3
shuttlecraft vessels accompanying it (each shuttle also being equipped
with a "hyperdrive" in case the mothership has to be abandoned, in
which case the shuttles double as "life-boats" that would need a
hyperdrive to get them across interstellar distances), just as Captain
Kirk's ship (the U.S.S. Enterprise) has smaller ships (the GALILEO,
the COPERNICUS, etc.) docked in a shuttlebay.
3. The "mothership" Taylor commands is called "U.S.S. Earth", a
"spaceship Earth" named after their home planet. In my scenario, when
Taylor tells Landon to "get out a last signal... to Earth, that we've
landed!", he is NOT referring to the planet Earth (which he has every
reason to believe is 320 LightYears away, and wouldn't receive a radio
transmission for another 320 years)--rather, Taylor's referring to the
bigger ship to which their shuttle had been attached prior to its
mysterious detachment and re-entry/splashdown on the surface. Taylor
wants to contact the orbiting "mothership", the "Earth", which would
possibly be in orbit above them, within radio transmission/reception
range. Unfortunately, the power cuts off before Landon could get
through, so they abandon ship. Imagine, say, Spock telling Scotty (in
their crashed shuttlecraft Galileo) to get out a last signal to
ENTERPRISE, that they've crash-landed. Same idea, but without the
subspace radio--just regular radio from a planet-bound shuttle to an
orbiting ship.
4. In BENEATH, "Skipper" asks Brent, "Did you contact Earth?" In
my scenario, Skip is referring to the same orbiting mothership, the
U.S.S. Earth, and NOT to the planet Earth. Brent says, "I don't know
what planet we're on...", which indicates that the "Earth" he tried to
contact could NOT be the planet, which he would think is LIGHTYEARS
away (and uncontactable, since they don't seem to have "hyperwave" or
"subspace radio"--Taylor's transmission, his "final report", is sent
out, a one-way delivery and not a 'conversation' in 'real-time' with
the 'stay-at-homes' on planet Earth). Later, when Brent has heard
Ursus' speech, he looks up and says, "I've gotta get back... up there.
I don't know how, or what with, but I'm not staying here!" In other
words, he knows (or suspects) that the "mothership" is still in orbit,
"up there", and he wants to find a way to get back to it.
5. Taylor's crew consists, then, of not only LANDON, DODGE, and
STEWART (who go into hibernation in "Alpha" shuttle--the ship in
PLANET), but also 'SKIPPER' and BRENT (who hibernate away the time in
"Bravo" shuttle--the ship in BENEATH), and an unknown number of other
astronauts, 3 of whom pilot down "Charlie" shuttle (the ship seen in
ESCAPE) from the U.S.S. Earth's shuttlebay (the gull-wing hatch access
necessitates that the entire shuttle be inside a "bay", whereas the
other two shuttles are docked to the outer hull of the mothership,
linked-up at a docking hatch on the "bottom" side of the shuttle, in
the airlock chamber aft of the bulkhead at the "foot" of the
hibernaculum chamber; the reason Brent exits his ship via the "escape
hatch" at the front/top of the shuttle, rather than the main hatch at
the aft/bottom, is that the ship didn't land correctly--on its
tripodal landing struts--but bellyflopped, thus making egress out of
the main hatch impossible).
6. In my scenario, Taylor's mothership (U.S.S. Earth) arrives at
its destination--a star system 320 LightYears away from Earth
somewhere in the constellation Orion--in 3978 (November). While
Taylor, Landon, Dodge, Stewart, 'Skipper', Brent, and other astronauts
remain in hibernation, a maintenance crew of engineers/techies
awakens, to prepare the ship for its full functioning prior to the
awakening of their commander, Taylor. Something happens to set up an
emergency situation--one result of which is that Taylor's shuttle
("Alpha") is wrenched loose from its docking port: the only thing
keeping his shuttle from drifting away from the mothership is a
mooring cable or two holding onto it by a 'thread'. The mothership's
main computer link to the shuttle is severed, however, which is why
the mothership's EARTH TIME chronometer will differ from that on Alpha
shuttle. They encounter a Black Hole in the Orion system, and before
they get too close to experience time dilation effects (which DID
happen to Virdon's ship, remember), they activate their mothership's
AUTOMATIC HOMING DEVICE, which sends them on a trajectory through
space back to planet Earth, but at an "overdrive" warp velocity (just
as Virdon's ship does). Just as Virdon's ship went back to Earth the
4.34 LightYears in 115 "retrodays" of EARTH TIME, so too does Taylor's
ship (U.S.S. Earth) zip back the 320 LightYears to planet Earth in a
proportionate amount of "retrodays": 4.34/320 = 115/8479 (that is,
Taylor's mothership goes BACKWARD THROUGH TIME about 8,479 days--from
25 November 3978 to 3955 (around the beginning of July, actually, in
my chronology). Every EARTH TIME chronometer hooked up to the
mothership's master computer registers this 'retrotemporal' effect
(just as Virdon's ship's computer did)--but "Alpha" shuttle, having
been wrenched loose, is NOT connected up, and its own EARTH TIME
chronometer still ticks away the time according to its own
programming: since it was the mothership's warp drive that zipped the
whole kit-and-kaboodle back to planet Earth and since "Alpha"
shuttle's warp drive was NOT engaged (being 'cocooned' inside the
mothership's warpfield), then we have here an explanation for the
different EARTH TIME readings seen by Taylor [11-25-3978] and Brent
["Three-niner-five-five":3955].
7. After zipping back to the vicinity of the planet Earth, the
mothership's warpdrive is disengaged... and the mooring cable holding
"Alpha" shuttle snaps. "Alpha" drifts away, beginning to fall down the
gravity well created by the planet Earth, whilst its four occupants
are still in hibernation, with insufficient time to awaken them prior
to their burning up in the atmosphere or crashing on the surface. So,
the crew that IS awake on the mothership has to act fast in order to
save the lives of Taylor and the others. In order to get into a stable
orbit around planet Earth, they have to initiate a "burn" of their
rocket engines. It's too late to remotely activate "Alpha" shuttle's
engines to do an orbital burn, and interference with the Earth's
atmosphere requires that any remote-controlling of Alpha shuttle by
others be done by a crew following after it in another shuttle. So,
the guys on the mothership detach "Bravo" shuttle (inside which Brent
& Skipper are hibernating) and somebody on the mothership remotely-
pilots Bravo shuttle into a stable orbit via a "burn" of its rocket
engines, just as somebody else triggers the mothership's rockets to do
a "burn" and get it into another similar stable orbit. Brent & Skipper
are kept in hibernation, since their shuttle has only so much food &
water on it to keep anybody alive; they'll be awakened later on at
their leisure.
8. But prior to the "burns" undergone by the mothership and Bravo
shuttle, 3 of the astronauts don spacesuits and get into "Charlie"
shuttle, in the enclosed shuttle bay, and fly it out of the
mothership, so that they can follow after the falling "Alpha" shuttle.
They follow Taylor's shuttle down, using their shuttle's computer
systems to remotely pilot Taylor's ship down to a safe landing, hoping
to find a flat, level area on which to land (on its tripod landing
struts--identical to the ones seen on the BENEATH ship, "Bravo");
unfortunately, the area "Alpha" shuttle is headed for is littered with
mesas and dunes and craggy topology--they can't land it the way it is
intended to land. So, they remotely aim Taylor's shuttle down to the
lake ("Dead Lake"), knowing that the hibernation drugs will be wearing
off any second now, and knowing also that Taylor & the gang should be
able to escape the soon-to-sink ship and utilize its life-raft to get
to shore. Remember, Landon later says that they "weren't programmed to
land in the water", which implies that their ship (i.e. shuttle) was
NOT being navigated by computer programming--rather, their computer's
programming had been over-ridden, remotely by-passed by an external
system: the remote-piloting of "Charlie" shuttle.
9. As "Alpha" shuttle splashes down into "Dead Lake", "Charlie"
shuttle flies over to the shore of the ocean not too far away from
Taylor's splashdown site, and lands safely on its tripod landing
struts (Cornelius tells the Presidential Commission that Milo found
the ship "on our seaboard", and the "sea" he references is the OCEAN--
as when he tells Brent that they had last seen Taylor heading towards
the north, "between the lake ["Dead Lake"] and the sea [the ocean]. As
Taylor's surviving crew paddles to the shore and then heads southward
towards the ape-populated areas, the 3 astronauts from "Charlie"
shuttle take off their spacesuits (which Milo & Cornelius & Zira will
later on make use of) and head off westward, toward the splashdown
site of Taylor's shuttle, hoping to "hook-up" with them. They tell the
guys up in the mothership that they will try to find Taylor (etc.) and
after a specified number of days, they'll get back to their landed
shuttle and contact them again with an update on the situation.
10. As Taylor has his adventures (in PLANET), the 3 other
astronauts looking for him eventually run into trouble: in my
scenario, they are the captured humans that Ursus is transporting when
his wagon's wheel/axle break, and they try to commandeer Zira's wagon
(with Taylor & Nova inside it). Unbeknownst to any of the astronauts
(Taylor and these other 3), they were THAT CLOSE! to each other but
didn't know it.
11. Because the 3 "Charlie" shuttle astronauts have gone missing
(captured by Ursus' gorillas), the awakened guys on the mothership
decide to awaken Brent & Skipper and have them fly down to the
surface, to land near Taylor's coordinates; this is the "trajectory"
that Brent tells Skipper they were following--a RE-ENTRY TRAJECTORY.
It doesn't make sense that they had been following Taylor across 320
LightYears or more of space; no, they were able to land in the same
relative area (say, within twenty miles) because they knew Taylor's
re-entry trajectory and followed it down, initiating a "burn" to get
out of orbit and down the flightpath to the pre-ordained terrestrial
coordinate. The re-entry trajectory would have to have been remotely
fed into "Bravo" shuttle's flight computer in order for Brent & Skip
to know it in the first place. Brent awakens prior to Skipper, and
sees the EARTH TIME chronometer reading 3955, and knows that their
ship's flight computer is running a program of Taylor's re-entry
trajectory--but Brent doesn't have time to get into radio contact with
the orbiting mothership before his ship is plowing into the atmosphere
(the interference of which renders the radiolink to the mothership
static). After the botched landing, Brent drags the injured 'Skipper'
out through the forward escape tunnel/hatch, uses a fire extinguisher
from the "airlock" chamber to put out the worst of the fire engulfing
their wrecked engines, and then tries to use the shuttle's radio to
"contact Earth" (i.e. their mothership, "U.S.S. Earth"). He tries, but
"not a crackle". Since they had just awoken from hibernation, neither
Skipper nor Brent knows that their mothership had zipped in overdrive
back to the planet Earth--they think they're lightyears away ("I don't
know what planet we're on..." Brent says). Evidently, the mothership
guys--who know they're all back at planet Earth--simply communicate to
Brent & Skip that they are to find & rescue Taylor (whose re-entry
trajectory they're following). It doesn't occur to them to kindly
inform them that they are landing ON THE PLANET EARTH.
11. Meanwhile, the 3 astronauts had left their shuttle ("Charlie")
on the seaboard, the coast of the Ocean, with a pre-programmed
orbital-insertion flightplan in their ship's flight computer, just in
case they had to get back and skedaddle quick. When Milo finds this
shuttle "parked" on the sand, he investigates it, reading all the info
printed on the buttons on the consoles, etc. He gets back to Ape City,
tells Zira and Cornelius what he had found, and the three of them pack
some food in a valise and make their way (via horse? boat?) over to
the Ocean shore, heading in the direction Taylor went, going past the
Statue of Liberty, past the furthest 'northern' extent Taylor & Nova
went before heading 'west' (away from the Ocean and, alas, prior to
stumbling on "Charlie" shuttle's landing site), and on to the site
where "Charlie" shuttle sits, all ready to go.
12. Milo convinces the other two to go with him in a flight. They
strip off their "apes' new suits" and don the spacesuits left behind
by the 3 astronauts. Then they get in the ship, strap themselves in,
and Milo triggers the pre-programmed orbital-insertion flightplan.
They blast off...

And you know the rest.

Jeezus, I guess I DID write pages of stuff, here! Oh, well. This,
mind you, is just the bare-bones outline of basic events I've
concocted as a scenario to "unflub" the flubs. The ultimate fate of
the orbiting mothership astronauts, the harsh experiences of the 3
other astronauts from "Charlie" shuttle, etc. etc., my novel will go
into much more detail regarding this. As I said before, the "Ansanaut"
guy isn't too keen on my scenario (nor am I on his), but it IS
consistent with the details seen in the movies & the TV show, and it
DOES explain the chronometric oddities (3978 vs. 3955, the 115
"retrodays" of Virdon's EARTH TIME chronometer, etc.) in a way I think
is rather elegant.
But, hey, this is just my take on it. Feel free to disagree.

Patrick Michael Tilton [at patrickmichaeltilton@...]
15 December 2001 [EARTH TIME]

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 12/14/01 1:25:03 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> veetus@e... writes:
>
>
> > I think the gorilla who says, "What's Dr. Zira trying to prove?" is
> > supposed to be Marcus (as named in publicity and the soundtrack album).
> >
> > - - - - Jeff
> >
> >
> >
>
> Marcus is the gorilla that pushes Zira away from Taylor as he's hanging in
> the net. He says to Zira, "Security Police." That's him and he was played
> by an actor named Bob Lombardo. He's also the gorilla photographer that
> says, "Smile," and he is the gorilla that stops Zira and Lucius as they leave
> the city in a scene that was cut.
>
> -- Rory

Fortunately, for me & my humongous novel I'm slaving away at, the name
'Marcus' is never used either in dialogue or in the credits of the
actual movie. In the shooting script, he's referred to as "Hunt
Leader"--and since the dead gorilla (at the funeral ceremony Taylor
interrupts) is referred to as--among other things--a "hunter", I feel
safe making him out to be the same gorilla who asks Zaius the question
("What's Dr. Zira trying to prove?"), and differentiating him from the
'wagon-commandeering-scene' gorilla "Hunt Leader" (whom I think is
Ursus, since he uses the same catch phrase: "The only good human is a
dead human.").
Also, I think the same gorilla actor (Bob Lombardo) played the
"lieutenant" who told Julius to prepare "Number Four" (i.e. Taylor)
for surgery to be gelded.
I know I'm gonna get blasted for saying this, but, Jeez, all those
damn gorillas look alike! Except for Julius, due to his different
garb. The gorilla make-ups tended to look identical (as did their
leather uniforms), and the only specifically differentiated ones were
given distinctive clothing (Ursus in BENEATH and Julius in PLANET).
The reason (I think) that Mr. Lombardo portrayed these various
characters (I think), is that the make-up artists spent more time on
the actors who spoke lines, and background apes wore less-intricate
make-ups. It was economical for Chambers (etc.) to have one actor
portray several different gorilla characters (all of whom would remain
unnamed in the actual movie), speaking through his better make-ups,
rather than spend more time & money having several different actors
portray the several different gorilla characters who speak lines
(which requires better make-ups).
Think of how many different gorillas were portrayed by the same actors
in the TV series.
Just a thought.

--- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:

> In the novel I'm writing, Ursus IS
> the hunt leader in the above scene--yet he's NOT the hunt leader who
> asks Zaius "What's Dr. Zira trying to prove?" In my scenario (which
> you all, of course, don't have to take as 'gospel'/'canon'), the prior
> hunt leader dies (mysteriously) later that day, and it is HIS funeral
> that Taylor inadvertently interrupts during his escape attempt ("...he
> was a model for us all, a gorilla to remember; HUNTER, warrior,
> defender of the Faith, cherished husband, generous master... yes, he
> was a font of simian kindness...")
> After he dies, Ursus succeeds him as "hunt leader", then (in my
> novel's scenario). And the (deleted) scene involving the attempt to
> commandeer Zira's wagon will be included in my novel.
>
> You know if you try to publish Fox is going to sue. You know that, right?

I'm NOT going to try to publish without permission. I'm writing it as
a labor of love, and when it's finished (which won't be for several
years, yet), I shall THEN approach Fox for the rights to publish it.
Sure, they might decline to give me the permission. I know that. But
I'm doing this in my spare time, and I'm not planning on it being a
mega-selling blockbuster that'll boost my finances thru the roof. Even
if I knew beyond all doubt NOW that I'd never get the rights to
publish it, I'd STILL work on it--because it's a labor of love, and a
hell of a lot of fun (at least, the kind of fun I get into).
Still, you never know. When it IS finished, and if whoever is in a
position to grant the publishing rights DOES grant me the right to do
so, well, fine. Icing on the cake.
But I would never dream of trying to publish copyrighted material
without permission.
PMT

.htmlIn a message dated 12/15/2001 8:56:49 AM Central Standard Time, rhandley@... writes:

Sure -- here's the breakdown...
* Planet of the Apes #1-87
* Planet of the Apes and Dracula Lives #88-123
* Mighty World of Marvel Featuring Hulk and P.O.T.A. #231-246
Total: 139 issues between the three titles.  In the course of those issues,
the entire U.S. series was reprinted, and some of the stories (mostly the
film adaptations) were reprinted twice.

Thank you for the listing of the comic book series. It will come in handy.<.html

.html

Even if I knew beyond all doubt NOW that I'd never get the rights to
publish it, I'd STILL work on it--because it's a labor of love, and a
hell of a lot of fun (at least, the kind of fun I get into).

Go for it!  I myself am writing kind of an Apes story, in book form as well as screenplay.  Could Fox try and sue me?  Possibly - But doubtful. My story has virtually no connection what so ever with any Apes story and was copyrighted long before the new film.  And if they're smart they'll realize that there's absolutely no money in suing me, but there could be a fortune in working with me.  Talking monkeys are Not the exclusive property of Twentieth Century Fox.

<.html

Good ideas, Patrick, but I think it's easier just to assume Virdon and
Burke knew about Cornelius and Zira. From what we've seen in "Conquest" that
didn't exactly rock the world. No one went out of their way to change the
way Cornelius said the revolution would go down. That wouldn't take away
from Virdon and burke being surprised apes are running the Earth. They don't
do a Wahlberg, saying "Talking monkeys can't exist". Is there really
anything inconsistant in the TV show with V & B having heard about Cornelius
and Zira?

- - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2001 8:57 AM
Subject: [pota] Timeline and the genius of Milo [was Re: Circlar vs.
Hasslein]


> saying there's an astronaut on the way. However, at the time of
> Planet there was no "Escape", so it would be silly to assume that
> anyone knew anything about Taylor's fate as he was actually travelling
> to another
> >
> > Although I do get your meaning [the act of writing the scripts] the
"time" [events] of 'Escape' happened before the "time" [events after the
crash] of 'Planet', no? ;-) Zaius could have that secret scroll of
knowledge, though I do feel his statements to Taylor where of the general
"forboding"[sp?] nature.
> >
> planet. Brent followed the flight path and was still very surprised
> to end up on Earth in the future (by the way, did Brent launch before
> or after Milo et al arrived on Earth???).
> >
> Yeah, what about that? There is no mention of Brent's mission in
> 'Escape', right?
> >
> Of all 'Ape" lore this is the one thing that I could never figure out.
> How did Milo raise the spaceship from the sea and get that sucker
> operational?
> >
> Best Wishes!
> J.
>
> I could write pages of stuff here, but I've already done that at
> another website that a guy calling himself "ANSANAUT" has going (it's
> called 'goingfaster' I think; I usually access it by using LYCOS and
> typing in ANSA Hasslein Icarus, which gets me to a list of his
> webpages; feel free to peruse his site: my postings are on his
> "Message Board" section). As I've posted here before, he and I have a
> heated disagreement regarding various aspects of the "Taylor mission"
> (he thinks Taylor's mission was to Alpha Centauri, dismissing the "320
> Lightyears...constellation Orion" info Taylor tells Landon as just so
> much smoke he's blowing up the other's ass).
> Logically, Brent could NOT have launched after the Ape-onauts
> landed, since he would then have known that there are intelligent apes
> living on Earth in the year 3955.
> Furthermore, Cornelius tells Hasslein about having had access to
> "history scrolls that were kept hidden from the masses". When would
> Cornelius have had an opportunity to peruse such scrolls? I think in-
> between PLANET and BENEATH (during which time the heresy charges are
> dismissed and he & Zira become "lawfully wedded"--remember, they were
> only engaged to be married in PLANET). During the "in-between" time,
> Cornelius and Zira must have had some sort of meeting-of-the-minds
> with Zaius, who--at the end of PLANET--had told them that they would
> both stand trial for heresy, yet in BENEATH is overly applauded by
> Zira during Ursus' speech. Perhaps Zaius feared the growing power of
> Ursus to such an extent that he needed all the support he could
> muster--even that of the chimpanzee intellectual faction--so he cuts a
> deal with Zira & Cornelius who offer him their support (and vow to
> keep quiet about their controversial findings in the Forbidden Zone)
> in exchange for access to the records that Zaius must have had ("and
> you're right: I have always known about Man...").
> Zaius had to have inherited certain written records revealing the
> truth of the Past of the planet--what Cornelius calls "history scrolls
> kept hidden from the masses", scrolls which mention the Plague that
> kills the Dogs & Cats, the ape named "Aldo" who is the first ape
> recorded to have said "No!" to a human, etc. In the script for ESCAPE,
> Cornelius--referring to the 'Aldo' bit in the history scrolls--says
> that it is "fully documented in the Secret Scrolls". For years, prior
> to actually getting the ESCAPE script [check out "SCRIPTCITY" to get
> your copy], I had thought that Cornelius said "fully documented in the
> Sacred Scrolls"--but "Sacred" and "Secret" sound a hell of a lot
> alike. Even the subtitlers for the DVDs got this wrong; evidently,
> they subtitled it "Sacred" based on what they thought they heard
> McDowall saying rather than on what the script actually has him
> saying, having heard references to "the Sacred Scrolls" in PLANET.
> In addition, in ESCAPE, the President mentions that the ship Milo
> navigated is "one of two" that had been considered lost. Now, when
> ESCAPE was made, the writers meant for us to think of the "two" lost
> ships as the two seen in PLANET and BENEATH, and that the one from
> PLANET was the same one we see in ESCAPE. However, there's a problem
> here; the ship in PLANET looks similar to the ESCAPE ship from the
> windows-and-forward, but did NOT have a 'gull-wing' hatch on the port
> side of the cockpit; furthermore, it had 4 seats and 4 hibernacula
> that extend further back than is possible in the short capsule we see
> in ESCAPE (which has only 3 seats--seen in filmed-yet-edited footage--
> and absolutely NO room for the hibernation bunks). In other words, the
> ESCAPE ship CANNOT BE THE SAME SHIP SEEN IN "PLANET". Yet it IS
> referred to as "the one commanded by Colonel Taylor". Hmmm.
> Added to this is the fact that Virdon's ship had to have left
> Earth prior to the splashdown of the Ape-onauts: otherwise, Virdon &
> Burke wouldn't have been surprised to find talking apes in the future,
> and they would have mentioned Zira & Cornelius, etc.
> In the novel I'm writing, I had to come up with a scenario that
> makes sense of all these 'flubs'/errors/mistakes. In a nutshell, it
> goes like this:
>
> 1. Virdon's mission to Alpha Centauri leaves Earth in the summer
> of 1971 on a 2-or-3 day (SHIP TIME) voyage, during which time the
> planet Earth will age about 9 years each way (THERE and BACK); they
> arrive in 1980 (EARTH TIME), synchronize their SHIP TIME chronometer
> with their EARTH TIME chronometer (this is why the opening credits of
> the TV show show both the SHIP TIME and EARTH TIME clocks in synch on
> 8-19-1980 (Tuesday, 19 August 1980) prior to the time warp), and
> before they have a chance to reconnoiter the Alpha Centauri system in
> which they've just arrived ("we were approaching Alpha Centauri...")
> and head back to Earth (to arrive in 1989/1990), they encounter a
> Black Hole orbiting unseen in the Alpha C system ("...we ran into
> radioactive turbulence..."). The close approach to the Black Hole
> causes their ship to experience gravitationally-induced time dilation
> effects (the "time warp" which speeds their EARTH TIME chronometer
> from 8-19-1980 to 7-14-3085 (14 July 3085). Virdon orders Jones to
> activate the "Automatic Homing Device"--obviously, a computer program
> of sorts which is intended to send their ship on a homeward
> trajectory; the "Hassleinian hyperdrive/warp drive" which propelled
> their ship to Alpha Centauri in the first place undergoes an emergency
> power boost (to free them from their proximity to the unplanned-for
> Black Hole), and they zip back to Earth the 4.34 LightYears distance
> in the warp equivalent of "overdrive"... and end up going BACKWARD
> THROUGH TIME, from 7-14-3085 to 3-21-3085, 115 "retro-days" of EARTH
> TIME (and only moments of SHIP TIME). After they crash and Farrow
> rescues the two survivors, Prefect Veska has his gorillas smash up the
> interior of the vehicle, causing the EARTH TIME chronometer to
> "freeze" on the date 3-21-3085, which Virdon & Burke see the next
> morning when Farrow leads them to the ship. Thus, the ship flown by
> Virdon/Burke/Jones out to Alpha Centauri is one of the two ships
> mentioned by the President in ESCAPE.
> 2. The other ship the President mentions is the ONE ship
> commanded by Colonel George Taylor, which lifts off from Cape Kennedy
> on 15 January 1972 and heads out to a distant star system 320
> LightYears away in Orion. BUT--and this is where my scenario gets
> controversial, folks--this ONE ship has to account for not only the
> ship seen in PLANET, but also the ships seen in BENEATH and ESCAPE
> (since the ESCAPE ship, as I've said before, is referred to as "the
> one commanded by Colonel Taylor). My solution to this conundrum can be
> gleaned by comparing the scenario with Pierre Boulle's original book.
> In "La Planete des Singes", Professor Antelle's interstellar ship
> leaves Earth in 2500 A.D. for Betelgeuse (some 300 LightYears away)...
> but the astronauts land on "Soror" in a shuttlecraft, which is called
> a "launch" in Xan Fielding's translation (from "une chaloupe" in
> Boulle's French). If this were STAR TREK, they would have "beamed
> down" to the surface, but since teleportation doesn't seem to be part
> of the hardware at their disposal, they have to take a smaller ship
> down to the surface--one of three which Ulysse Merou mentions. In my
> scenario, Taylor's ship is really a sort of "mothership" which has 3
> shuttlecraft vessels accompanying it (each shuttle also being equipped
> with a "hyperdrive" in case the mothership has to be abandoned, in
> which case the shuttles double as "life-boats" that would need a
> hyperdrive to get them across interstellar distances), just as Captain
> Kirk's ship (the U.S.S. Enterprise) has smaller ships (the GALILEO,
> the COPERNICUS, etc.) docked in a shuttlebay.
> 3. The "mothership" Taylor commands is called "U.S.S. Earth", a
> "spaceship Earth" named after their home planet. In my scenario, when
> Taylor tells Landon to "get out a last signal... to Earth, that we've
> landed!", he is NOT referring to the planet Earth (which he has every
> reason to believe is 320 LightYears away, and wouldn't receive a radio
> transmission for another 320 years)--rather, Taylor's referring to the
> bigger ship to which their shuttle had been attached prior to its
> mysterious detachment and re-entry/splashdown on the surface. Taylor
> wants to contact the orbiting "mothership", the "Earth", which would
> possibly be in orbit above them, within radio transmission/reception
> range. Unfortunately, the power cuts off before Landon could get
> through, so they abandon ship. Imagine, say, Spock telling Scotty (in
> their crashed shuttlecraft Galileo) to get out a last signal to
> ENTERPRISE, that they've crash-landed. Same idea, but without the
> subspace radio--just regular radio from a planet-bound shuttle to an
> orbiting ship.
> 4. In BENEATH, "Skipper" asks Brent, "Did you contact Earth?" In
> my scenario, Skip is referring to the same orbiting mothership, the
> U.S.S. Earth, and NOT to the planet Earth. Brent says, "I don't know
> what planet we're on...", which indicates that the "Earth" he tried to
> contact could NOT be the planet, which he would think is LIGHTYEARS
> away (and uncontactable, since they don't seem to have "hyperwave" or
> "subspace radio"--Taylor's transmission, his "final report", is sent
> out, a one-way delivery and not a 'conversation' in 'real-time' with
> the 'stay-at-homes' on planet Earth). Later, when Brent has heard
> Ursus' speech, he looks up and says, "I've gotta get back... up there.
> I don't know how, or what with, but I'm not staying here!" In other
> words, he knows (or suspects) that the "mothership" is still in orbit,
> "up there", and he wants to find a way to get back to it.
> 5. Taylor's crew consists, then, of not only LANDON, DODGE, and
> STEWART (who go into hibernation in "Alpha" shuttle--the ship in
> PLANET), but also 'SKIPPER' and BRENT (who hibernate away the time in
> "Bravo" shuttle--the ship in BENEATH), and an unknown number of other
> astronauts, 3 of whom pilot down "Charlie" shuttle (the ship seen in
> ESCAPE) from the U.S.S. Earth's shuttlebay (the gull-wing hatch access
> necessitates that the entire shuttle be inside a "bay", whereas the
> other two shuttles are docked to the outer hull of the mothership,
> linked-up at a docking hatch on the "bottom" side of the shuttle, in
> the airlock chamber aft of the bulkhead at the "foot" of the
> hibernaculum chamber; the reason Brent exits his ship via the "escape
> hatch" at the front/top of the shuttle, rather than the main hatch at
> the aft/bottom, is that the ship didn't land correctly--on its
> tripodal landing struts--but bellyflopped, thus making egress out of
> the main hatch impossible).
> 6. In my scenario, Taylor's mothership (U.S.S. Earth) arrives at
> its destination--a star system 320 LightYears away from Earth
> somewhere in the constellation Orion--in 3978 (November). While
> Taylor, Landon, Dodge, Stewart, 'Skipper', Brent, and other astronauts
> remain in hibernation, a maintenance crew of engineers/techies
> awakens, to prepare the ship for its full functioning prior to the
> awakening of their commander, Taylor. Something happens to set up an
> emergency situation--one result of which is that Taylor's shuttle
> ("Alpha") is wrenched loose from its docking port: the only thing
> keeping his shuttle from drifting away from the mothership is a
> mooring cable or two holding onto it by a 'thread'. The mothership's
> main computer link to the shuttle is severed, however, which is why
> the mothership's EARTH TIME chronometer will differ from that on Alpha
> shuttle. They encounter a Black Hole in the Orion system, and before
> they get too close to experience time dilation effects (which DID
> happen to Virdon's ship, remember), they activate their mothership's
> AUTOMATIC HOMING DEVICE, which sends them on a trajectory through
> space back to planet Earth, but at an "overdrive" warp velocity (just
> as Virdon's ship does). Just as Virdon's ship went back to Earth the
> 4.34 LightYears in 115 "retrodays" of EARTH TIME, so too does Taylor's
> ship (U.S.S. Earth) zip back the 320 LightYears to planet Earth in a
> proportionate amount of "retrodays": 4.34/320 = 115/8479 (that is,
> Taylor's mothership goes BACKWARD THROUGH TIME about 8,479 days--from
> 25 November 3978 to 3955 (around the beginning of July, actually, in
> my chronology). Every EARTH TIME chronometer hooked up to the
> mothership's master computer registers this 'retrotemporal' effect
> (just as Virdon's ship's computer did)--but "Alpha" shuttle, having
> been wrenched loose, is NOT connected up, and its own EARTH TIME
> chronometer still ticks away the time according to its own
> programming: since it was the mothership's warp drive that zipped the
> whole kit-and-kaboodle back to planet Earth and since "Alpha"
> shuttle's warp drive was NOT engaged (being 'cocooned' inside the
> mothership's warpfield), then we have here an explanation for the
> different EARTH TIME readings seen by Taylor [11-25-3978] and Brent
> ["Three-niner-five-five":3955].
> 7. After zipping back to the vicinity of the planet Earth, the
> mothership's warpdrive is disengaged... and the mooring cable holding
> "Alpha" shuttle snaps. "Alpha" drifts away, beginning to fall down the
> gravity well created by the planet Earth, whilst its four occupants
> are still in hibernation, with insufficient time to awaken them prior
> to their burning up in the atmosphere or crashing on the surface. So,
> the crew that IS awake on the mothership has to act fast in order to
> save the lives of Taylor and the others. In order to get into a stable
> orbit around planet Earth, they have to initiate a "burn" of their
> rocket engines. It's too late to remotely activate "Alpha" shuttle's
> engines to do an orbital burn, and interference with the Earth's
> atmosphere requires that any remote-controlling of Alpha shuttle by
> others be done by a crew following after it in another shuttle. So,
> the guys on the mothership detach "Bravo" shuttle (inside which Brent
> & Skipper are hibernating) and somebody on the mothership remotely-
> pilots Bravo shuttle into a stable orbit via a "burn" of its rocket
> engines, just as somebody else triggers the mothership's rockets to do
> a "burn" and get it into another similar stable orbit. Brent & Skipper
> are kept in hibernation, since their shuttle has only so much food &
> water on it to keep anybody alive; they'll be awakened later on at
> their leisure.
> 8. But prior to the "burns" undergone by the mothership and Bravo
> shuttle, 3 of the astronauts don spacesuits and get into "Charlie"
> shuttle, in the enclosed shuttle bay, and fly it out of the
> mothership, so that they can follow after the falling "Alpha" shuttle.
> They follow Taylor's shuttle down, using their shuttle's computer
> systems to remotely pilot Taylor's ship down to a safe landing, hoping
> to find a flat, level area on which to land (on its tripod landing
> struts--identical to the ones seen on the BENEATH ship, "Bravo");
> unfortunately, the area "Alpha" shuttle is headed for is littered with
> mesas and dunes and craggy topology--they can't land it the way it is
> intended to land. So, they remotely aim Taylor's shuttle down to the
> lake ("Dead Lake"), knowing that the hibernation drugs will be wearing
> off any second now, and knowing also that Taylor & the gang should be
> able to escape the soon-to-sink ship and utilize its life-raft to get
> to shore. Remember, Landon later says that they "weren't programmed to
> land in the water", which implies that their ship (i.e. shuttle) was
> NOT being navigated by computer programming--rather, their computer's
> programming had been over-ridden, remotely by-passed by an external
> system: the remote-piloting of "Charlie" shuttle.
> 9. As "Alpha" shuttle splashes down into "Dead Lake", "Charlie"
> shuttle flies over to the shore of the ocean not too far away from
> Taylor's splashdown site, and lands safely on its tripod landing
> struts (Cornelius tells the Presidential Commission that Milo found
> the ship "on our seaboard", and the "sea" he references is the OCEAN--
> as when he tells Brent that they had last seen Taylor heading towards
> the north, "between the lake ["Dead Lake"] and the sea [the ocean]. As
> Taylor's surviving crew paddles to the shore and then heads southward
> towards the ape-populated areas, the 3 astronauts from "Charlie"
> shuttle take off their spacesuits (which Milo & Cornelius & Zira will
> later on make use of) and head off westward, toward the splashdown
> site of Taylor's shuttle, hoping to "hook-up" with them. They tell the
> guys up in the mothership that they will try to find Taylor (etc.) and
> after a specified number of days, they'll get back to their landed
> shuttle and contact them again with an update on the situation.
> 10. As Taylor has his adventures (in PLANET), the 3 other
> astronauts looking for him eventually run into trouble: in my
> scenario, they are the captured humans that Ursus is transporting when
> his wagon's wheel/axle break, and they try to commandeer Zira's wagon
> (with Taylor & Nova inside it). Unbeknownst to any of the astronauts
> (Taylor and these other 3), they were THAT CLOSE! to each other but
> didn't know it.
> 11. Because the 3 "Charlie" shuttle astronauts have gone missing
> (captured by Ursus' gorillas), the awakened guys on the mothership
> decide to awaken Brent & Skipper and have them fly down to the
> surface, to land near Taylor's coordinates; this is the "trajectory"
> that Brent tells Skipper they were following--a RE-ENTRY TRAJECTORY.
> It doesn't make sense that they had been following Taylor across 320
> LightYears or more of space; no, they were able to land in the same
> relative area (say, within twenty miles) because they knew Taylor's
> re-entry trajectory and followed it down, initiating a "burn" to get
> out of orbit and down the flightpath to the pre-ordained terrestrial
> coordinate. The re-entry trajectory would have to have been remotely
> fed into "Bravo" shuttle's flight computer in order for Brent & Skip
> to know it in the first place. Brent awakens prior to Skipper, and
> sees the EARTH TIME chronometer reading 3955, and knows that their
> ship's flight computer is running a program of Taylor's re-entry
> trajectory--but Brent doesn't have time to get into radio contact with
> the orbiting mothership before his ship is plowing into the atmosphere
> (the interference of which renders the radiolink to the mothership
> static). After the botched landing, Brent drags the injured 'Skipper'
> out through the forward escape tunnel/hatch, uses a fire extinguisher
> from the "airlock" chamber to put out the worst of the fire engulfing
> their wrecked engines, and then tries to use the shuttle's radio to
> "contact Earth" (i.e. their mothership, "U.S.S. Earth"). He tries, but
> "not a crackle". Since they had just awoken from hibernation, neither
> Skipper nor Brent knows that their mothership had zipped in overdrive
> back to the planet Earth--they think they're lightyears away ("I don't
> know what planet we're on..." Brent says). Evidently, the mothership
> guys--who know they're all back at planet Earth--simply communicate to
> Brent & Skip that they are to find & rescue Taylor (whose re-entry
> trajectory they're following). It doesn't occur to them to kindly
> inform them that they are landing ON THE PLANET EARTH.
> 11. Meanwhile, the 3 astronauts had left their shuttle ("Charlie")
> on the seaboard, the coast of the Ocean, with a pre-programmed
> orbital-insertion flightplan in their ship's flight computer, just in
> case they had to get back and skedaddle quick. When Milo finds this
> shuttle "parked" on the sand, he investigates it, reading all the info
> printed on the buttons on the consoles, etc. He gets back to Ape City,
> tells Zira and Cornelius what he had found, and the three of them pack
> some food in a valise and make their way (via horse? boat?) over to
> the Ocean shore, heading in the direction Taylor went, going past the
> Statue of Liberty, past the furthest 'northern' extent Taylor & Nova
> went before heading 'west' (away from the Ocean and, alas, prior to
> stumbling on "Charlie" shuttle's landing site), and on to the site
> where "Charlie" shuttle sits, all ready to go.
> 12. Milo convinces the other two to go with him in a flight. They
> strip off their "apes' new suits" and don the spacesuits left behind
> by the 3 astronauts. Then they get in the ship, strap themselves in,
> and Milo triggers the pre-programmed orbital-insertion flightplan.
> They blast off...
>
> And you know the rest.
>
> Jeezus, I guess I DID write pages of stuff, here! Oh, well. This,
> mind you, is just the bare-bones outline of basic events I've
> concocted as a scenario to "unflub" the flubs. The ultimate fate of
> the orbiting mothership astronauts, the harsh experiences of the 3
> other astronauts from "Charlie" shuttle, etc. etc., my novel will go
> into much more detail regarding this. As I said before, the "Ansanaut"
> guy isn't too keen on my scenario (nor am I on his), but it IS
> consistent with the details seen in the movies & the TV show, and it
> DOES explain the chronometric oddities (3978 vs. 3955, the 115
> "retrodays" of Virdon's EARTH TIME chronometer, etc.) in a way I think
> is rather elegant.
> But, hey, this is just my take on it. Feel free to disagree.
>
> Patrick Michael Tilton [at patrickmichaeltilton@...]
> 15 December 2001 [EARTH TIME]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

They did the same thing in the new movie. Several actors played many
different apes. If they were good playing apes they got a lot of work.

- - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2001 9:22 AM
Subject: [pota] Re: A New Topic - Potential DVD material for "Planet"


> --- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> > In a message dated 12/14/01 1:25:03 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> > veetus@e... writes:
> >
> >
> > > I think the gorilla who says, "What's Dr. Zira trying to prove?" is
> > > supposed to be Marcus (as named in publicity and the soundtrack
album).
> > >
> > > - - - - Jeff
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Marcus is the gorilla that pushes Zira away from Taylor as he's hanging
in
> > the net. He says to Zira, "Security Police." That's him and he was
played
> > by an actor named Bob Lombardo. He's also the gorilla photographer that
> > says, "Smile," and he is the gorilla that stops Zira and Lucius as they
leave
> > the city in a scene that was cut.
> >
> > -- Rory
>
> Fortunately, for me & my humongous novel I'm slaving away at, the name
> 'Marcus' is never used either in dialogue or in the credits of the
> actual movie. In the shooting script, he's referred to as "Hunt
> Leader"--and since the dead gorilla (at the funeral ceremony Taylor
> interrupts) is referred to as--among other things--a "hunter", I feel
> safe making him out to be the same gorilla who asks Zaius the question
> ("What's Dr. Zira trying to prove?"), and differentiating him from the
> 'wagon-commandeering-scene' gorilla "Hunt Leader" (whom I think is
> Ursus, since he uses the same catch phrase: "The only good human is a
> dead human.").
> Also, I think the same gorilla actor (Bob Lombardo) played the
> "lieutenant" who told Julius to prepare "Number Four" (i.e. Taylor)
> for surgery to be gelded.
> I know I'm gonna get blasted for saying this, but, Jeez, all those
> damn gorillas look alike! Except for Julius, due to his different
> garb. The gorilla make-ups tended to look identical (as did their
> leather uniforms), and the only specifically differentiated ones were
> given distinctive clothing (Ursus in BENEATH and Julius in PLANET).
> The reason (I think) that Mr. Lombardo portrayed these various
> characters (I think), is that the make-up artists spent more time on
> the actors who spoke lines, and background apes wore less-intricate
> make-ups. It was economical for Chambers (etc.) to have one actor
> portray several different gorilla characters (all of whom would remain
> unnamed in the actual movie), speaking through his better make-ups,
> rather than spend more time & money having several different actors
> portray the several different gorilla characters who speak lines
> (which requires better make-ups).
> Think of how many different gorillas were portrayed by the same actors
> in the TV series.
> Just a thought.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2001 2:02 PM

Subject: Re: [pota] Re: A New Topic - Potential DVD material for "Planet"

Even if I knew beyond all doubt NOW that I'd never get the rights to
publish it, I'd STILL work on it--because it's a labor of love, and a
hell of a lot of fun (at least, the kind of fun I get into).

Go for it!  I myself am writing kind of an Apes story, in book form as well as screenplay.  Could Fox try and sue me?  Possibly - But doubtful. My story has virtually no connection what so ever with any Apes story and was copyrighted long before the new film.  And if they're smart they'll realize that there's absolutely no money in suing me, but there could be a fortune in working with me.  Talking monkeys are Not the exclusive property of Twentieth Century Fox.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

How did Milo raise the spaceship from the sea and get that
sucker operational?

He was a genius.  After all, he knew where to look.  If he can figure out a spaceship he can certainly make an air pump.  And if he's not afraid of space travel, a little salvage dive wouldn't stop him.

<.html

Okay, I'm past the medical center an in a strage fortress where some crazy
human knocked me out and put me in. :o)

Question:
HOW THE HELL DO I GET OUT OF HERE!?

I ordered the PC Stragety game booklet, but won't receive it until a week or
so. Any clues? :o)

Best.
Al



_____

In a message dated 12/13/01 11:00:37 PM Central Standard Time,
Health_Center4@... writes:

<< Dear,fmasheviche,


I lost 30 lbs in 13 days >>

Nice name.

-Joe

Eh... cheaters.

Anyway, I'm having fun playing the GBA version of Planet of the Apes. It's
actually pretty fun, and not as crappy as I thought it would be. It's
basically a sidescroller, but has nice gameplay touches that I really can't
describe. You gotta play it to understand me.

Anyway, I noticed at GameFAQs.com that Planet of The Apes (PC) was number 10
on the FAQ request list. It seems that many people are actually playing the
game, so if you'd like to write a FAQ for it and submit it to GameFAQs.com,
I'm sure many people will be very happy.

-Joe

In a message dated 12/15/01 4:03:18 PM Central Standard Time,
LordTZer0@... writes:

<< Go for it! I myself am writing kind of an Apes story, in book form as
well
as screenplay. >>

I've been doing some Apes activities lately. I'm hacking a Zelda II ROM for
the Nintendo Entertainment System (I'm sure you guys know what that is) to
make it Apes oriented. So far I've only hacked a few of the graphics packs,
but I'm doing fine. I'm using a Hex program so I can change the text in the
game also. I'm also making an Apes game on my TI-83+ Calculator in my spare
time. AND I'm also making an Apes game using the Zelda engine at
zeldaclassic.com.... it's coming along fairly well too.

Wow, I've been doing a lot of work.

-Joe

Poor reception and dropped calls getting you down?
Get the cell phone booster antenna.
Easy to install works on any cell phone


http://61.16.69.50/booster



Removes to: CellSales4@... With "PsRemove" in the subject














Poor reception and dropped calls getting you down?
Get the cell phone booster antenna.
Easy to install works on any cell phone


http://61.16.69.50/booster

http://www.vgmuseum.com/images/gba/02/41.htm

Now this looks pretty interesting!
Thanks Joe.

Al

_____

How can it be #10? No stores carry it. It's a
- - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: <CheeseGOTAS@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2001 6:23 PM
Subject: Re: [pota] POTA PC Nightmare!


> Eh... cheaters.
>
> Anyway, I'm having fun playing the GBA version of Planet of the Apes.
It's
> actually pretty fun, and not as crappy as I thought it would be. It's
> basically a sidescroller, but has nice gameplay touches that I really
can't
> describe. You gotta play it to understand me.
>
> Anyway, I noticed at GameFAQs.com that Planet of The Apes (PC) was number
10
> on the FAQ request list. It seems that many people are actually playing
the
> game, so if you'd like to write a FAQ for it and submit it to
GameFAQs.com,
> I'm sure many people will be very happy.
>
> -Joe
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html <.html

"Calima 5021" <calima5021com@...> wrote:

> Okay, I'm past the medical center an in a strage fortress where some crazy
> human knocked me out and put me in. :o)

The Monastery?

> Question:
> HOW THE HELL DO I GET OUT OF HERE!?
>
> I ordered the PC Stragety game booklet, but won't receive it until a week

or

> so. Any clues? :o)

Have you got the hologram cartridge yet? It's hidden behind a piece of
furniture, which you'll need to move to get to it.

Alan

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Michael Whitty

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 12:36 AM

Subject: [pota] Yet another tropic.....

OK

 

I have always been fascinated by the image of the aged Stewart at the start of Planet and I always wondered if maybe the ship landed earlier, Stewart had her own adventure and then escaped and left the men to theirs.

 

So the question is, on the timeline, when was a good time for Stewart to have landed and what events have already taken place?  I am thinking just after the conclusion of the Lawgiver speech at the end of Battle......

 

This should stimulate thought and debate (and a couple of alternative time lines ie circular vs Hasslein)!

 

Michael

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

Have you got the hologram cartridge yet? It's hidden behind a piece of
furniture, which you'll need to move to get to it.

Alan


Thanks Alan.
That's what I was looking for, there is some type of dresser that he trys to
pull open but can't. I'll try out the other furniture.
It's a madhouse!

Best.
Al


_____

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(TSKMary@...)
on Sunday, December 16, 2001 at 16:11:20
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---------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Calima 5021" <calima5021com@...> wrote:

> That's what I was looking for, there is some type of dresser that he trys

to

> pull open but can't. I'll try out the other furniture.
> It's a madhouse!

Let me know if there's any other level you got stuck on, as in the course of
completing it I have saved games for every level, so I can access them
easily enough.

I hereby appoint myself the official Planet of the Apes PC game helpdesk.

Alan

When Caesar, MacDonald and Virgil go to the Armery where Mandemus
lives, he (Mandemus) asks them 5 questions, not 6 which he says he
does..does anyone see this?

-ryan

.htmlIn a message dated 12/16/2001 10:23:18 PM Central Standard Time, ryanc_873@... writes:

When Caesar, MacDonald and Virgil go to the Armory where Mandemus
lives, he (Mandemus) asks them 5 questions, not 6 which he says he
does..does anyone see this?

-ryan

No, I myself didn't see this "mistake". I checked the movie as well as the novel of it. He does ask six questions, before asking the 7th. Here they are (quoted from the novel)

1) Who knocks?

2) And what does Caesar want?

3) For what purpose?

4) Self protection? Self protection? Against whom or what?

5) What is the point of protecting yourself against a danger of which you have no knowledge while you pursue a knowledge you do not possess?

6) Is this knowledge for good or evil?

(And the 7th question being: What is the nature of the knowledge you cannot seek without weapons?)<.html

On Mon, 17 Dec 2001 04:22:21 -0000 "colicab743" <ryanc_873@...>
writes:

> When Caesar, MacDonald and Virgil go to the Armery where Mandemus
> lives, he (Mandemus) asks them 5 questions, not 6 which he says he
> does..does anyone see this?
>
> -ryan

I believe he counts his initial inquiry of "Who's there?" as a question.
I made a point of counting them once and came up with 7.


Chris L.
____

I believe he counts his initial inquiry of "Who's there?" as a
question.
I made a point of counting them once and came up with 7.


Sorry, my fault. I didn't count the "Who's there?" as a question..

-ryan

wow it was a lot to get through. I think most of us probably got
varying amounts of enjoyment out of these. I found some of the series
surprisingly entertaining and at the other end of the spectrum, I
sometimes fell asleep during some of the episodes.

My favs:

Up Above The World So High - perhaps my fav
Tomorrow's Tide - this one is really good too
The Interrogation
The Horse Race

Honorable mentions:

The Liberator - I found Miro's mate *very* attractive
The Cure
The Interrogation

I think the stupidest one was:

The Tyrant - this one starts out good, but just goes nowhere. The way
Aboro's little plot gets overthrown is just beyond stupid!

I'm really thrilled to have this DVD set (memories from childhood),
in fact it's what got me to finally buy a DVD player. I still get a
rush from viewing the opening title sequence.

"Cinescape" magazine has a special year-end issue and rates POTA #2 for
worst toys of the year (#1 was Sony's robot dog). But POTA was picked as the
best soundtrack. So far I haven't seen it turn up on any "worst list" for
movies. But Mark Altman finally chimed in, saying he "loathed it", as well
as "Jeepers Creepers". Didn't give any details. . . .

- - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Maxwell" <alan@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2001 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: [pota] Re: POTA PC Nightmare!


> "Calima 5021" <calima5021com@...> wrote:
> > That's what I was looking for, there is some type of dresser that he
trys
> to
> > pull open but can't. I'll try out the other furniture.
> > It's a madhouse!
>
> Let me know if there's any other level you got stuck on, as in the course
of
> completing it I have saved games for every level, so I can access them
> easily enough.
>
> I hereby appoint myself the official Planet of the Apes PC game helpdesk.
>
> Alan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Well, Weakest Link just had a POTA question.
Of course they had to give the ending away with it.
But the dumb broad who answered said ...
The Washington Monument.
Obviously she hasn't been in a video store lately.

Has anyone seen it? I'm getting it for Christmas with the rest of
the movies in a box set..

-ryan

Jumpstart your bedroom desire
For both men & women
To a point you never thought possible


http://4.35.159.201.htmlperform/index.html"



Remove Box : Stimulate6@...

"DD" in the subject





















Jumpstart your bedroom desire
For both men & women
To a point you never thought possible


http://4.35.159.201.htmlperform/index.html"

--- In pota@y..., "colicab743" <ryanc_873@h...> wrote:

> Has anyone seen it? I'm getting it for Christmas with the rest of
> the movies in a box set..

me:

probably the good majority of the list has seen it; it's killer, you
will love it.

.htmlIn a message dated 12/18/01 8:04:20 AM Eastern Standard Time, ryanc_873@... writes:

Has anyone seen it?  I'm getting it for Christmas with the rest of
the movies in a box set..

-ryan

Has anyone seen it?!!    Does Dr. Zaius have a hairy butt?

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 12/18/2001 8:17:14 AM Central Standard Time, danpiercy@... writes:

- In pota@y..., "colicab743" <ryanc_873@h...> wrote:

> Has anyone seen it?  I'm getting it for Christmas with the rest of
> the movies in a box set..

me:

probably the good majority of the list has seen it; it's killer, you
will love it.

I'd agree with you that the majority of us have seen it...Either when aired on AMC 3 years ago, or in our own dvd box sets (or, I'm sure a lot of us have seen it both on television and dvd.)

I'd also agree with you that it is a great show....But even better than the one included in the box set is the deluxe edition from this summer. All the extras on it make the $19.99 worth it....<.html

Well, you all know the rule - Ape shall not kill Ape. You know in
the 1968 movie where the group is on the beach and Zaius asks
Cornelius and Zira to reconsider the rash course they've undertaken,
and tells them that if they keep on pointing guns in their direction,
they'll "HANG" for high treason, why does Zaius say that when he
knows that the rule is ape shall not kill ape, and basically saying
that he'll kill them. I found it wierd, I suggest you watch the
original and see what I mean.

-ryan

From today's HOLLYWOOD REPORTER, some interesting news, and a fiiting tribute to the classic launched by Pierre Boulle, Arthur P. Jacobs, Rod Serling,Charlton Heston,Franklin J. Schaffner, Michael G. Wilson, John Chambers, Jack Martin Smith and William Creber, and Morton Haack.

Best, Jim Burns (James H. Burns)
_________________________________________

From today's HOLLYWOOD REPORTER, some interesting news, and a fiiting tribute to the classic launched by Pierre Boulle, Arthur P. Jacobs, Rod Serling,Charlton Heston,Franklin J. Schaffner, Michael G. Wilson, John Chambers, Jack Martin Smith and William Creber, and Morton Haack.

Best, Jim Burns (James H. Burns)
_________________________________________

Maybe it is just a matter of semantics - ape may not be considered to kill
ape in an execution.

Was the "Ape Shall Not Kill Ape" philosopgy in the Boulle novel or an
invention of the screen adaptation? Also, when was it first mentioned?

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: colicab743 [ryanc_873@...]
Sent: Wednesday, 19 December 2001 20:08

Well, you all know the rule - Ape shall not kill Ape. You know in the 1968
movie where the group is on the beach and Zaius asks Cornelius and Zira to
reconsider the rash course they've undertaken, and tells them that if they
keep on pointing guns in their direction, they'll "HANG" for high treason,
why does Zaius say that when he knows that the rule is ape shall not kill
ape, and basically saying that he'll kill them. I found it wierd, I suggest
you watch the original and see what I mean.

-ryan

Jeff Krueger,

I don't draw penis headed mutants. Take a good long look at yourself before
accusing other people of being on drugs.

So if penis headed mutants can exist, why is it so difficult to think of a
scenario where Stewart landed before Taylor et al (and only her chamber
opened), has an adventure, and gets back in the ship after her adventure
(which could have gone on for 50 years, considering the state of her when
Taylor next sees her) and threw auto pilot on. Hell, maybe there was an ape
hidden on board who tried to get in to Stewart's capsule and caused the
crack that eventually seals her fate.

I am simply asking the "Time-Line" authorities in the group (and there seems
to be a few, all with different opinions) where such a scenario would best
fit.

Does anyone have anything useful to say in response (almost and ironic
question)?

Michael

--- In pota@y..., mlccougar@a... wrote:

> I'd also agree with you that it is a great show....But even better

than the

> one included in the box set is the deluxe edition from this summer.

All the

> extras on it make the $19.99 worth it....

me:

is this a DVD you can purchase by itself? or do you have to get the
evolution box set???

I don't know if it is the Boulle novel or not (since I haven't read
it). It was first mentioned by Ursus in Beneath which goes something
like this (from memory) "I cannot do what the Lawgiver has forbidden -
ape shall not kill ape." You are still killing an ape by execution,
theoretically.

-ryan

--- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> Maybe it is just a matter of semantics - ape may not be considered
to kill
> ape in an execution.
>
> Was the "Ape Shall Not Kill Ape" philosopgy in the Boulle novel or
an
> invention of the screen adaptation? Also, when was it first
mentioned?
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: colicab743 [ryanc_873@h...]
> Sent: Wednesday, 19 December 2001 20:08
>
> Well, you all know the rule - Ape shall not kill Ape. You know in
the 1968
> movie where the group is on the beach and Zaius asks Cornelius and
Zira to
> reconsider the rash course they've undertaken, and tells them that
if they
> keep on pointing guns in their direction, they'll "HANG" for high
treason,
> why does Zaius say that when he knows that the rule is ape shall
not kill
> ape, and basically saying that he'll kill them. I found it wierd,
I suggest
> you watch the original and see what I mean.
>
> -ryan

--- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:

> Was the "Ape Shall Not Kill Ape" philosopgy in the Boulle novel or

an

> invention of the screen adaptation? Also, when was it first

mentioned?

me:

"Ape Shall Not Kill Ape" wasn't even mentioned until Battle - right?

We are new to the group and are enjoying all 13684 previous
postings. In 12 hours I have considered things I hadn't thought of
previously and have found information that I didn't know existed.
Great contributions! We are looking for a source of used or very
reasonably priced old style pota masks and/or costumes to be used by
students in a parade. We are trying to "replicate" the Apes costumes
as closely as possible with thrift shop castoffs and glue gun. Masks
would be especially helpful (although we HAVE had a great time trying
to make those). At this time we are thinking about using the scene
with the Statue of Liberty and having apes from the other movies
walking beside the float. Many thanks for your ideas.

The movie answer is that the apes don't consider execution a breaking of
the law, just as we say it's a sin to kill another human being but execute
people all the time.

I think the real world answer is that "Ape Shall Not Kill Ape" first made
it's appearance in "Beneath" and became a mantra for Paul Dehn. For writers
of the first film, that concept probably didn't exist.

- - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "colicab743" <ryanc_873@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 1:07 AM
Subject: [pota] Something wierd in 1968 movie


> Well, you all know the rule - Ape shall not kill Ape. You know in
> the 1968 movie where the group is on the beach and Zaius asks
> Cornelius and Zira to reconsider the rash course they've undertaken,
> and tells them that if they keep on pointing guns in their direction,
> they'll "HANG" for high treason, why does Zaius say that when he
> knows that the rule is ape shall not kill ape, and basically saying
> that he'll kill them. I found it wierd, I suggest you watch the
> original and see what I mean.
>
> -ryan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

This is great news! But "Animal House"?

- - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "jimburns1999" <jameshburns@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 3:44 AM
Subject: [pota] 1968 PLANET OF THE APES Makes the National Registry...


> From today's HOLLYWOOD REPORTER, some interesting news, and a fiiting
tribute to the classic launched by Pierre Boulle, Arthur P. Jacobs, Rod
Serling,Charlton Heston,Franklin J. Schaffner, Michael G. Wilson, John
Chambers, Jack Martin Smith and William Creber, and Morton Haack.
>
> Best, Jim Burns (James H. Burns)
>

I never said I WASN'T on drugs, bro! Let's party!

- - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 4:01 AM
Subject: [pota] Try Again


> Jeff Krueger,
>
> I don't draw penis headed mutants. Take a good long look at yourself
before
> accusing other people of being on drugs.
>
> So if penis headed mutants can exist, why is it so difficult to think of a
> scenario where Stewart landed before Taylor et al (and only her chamber
> opened), has an adventure, and gets back in the ship after her adventure
> (which could have gone on for 50 years, considering the state of her when
> Taylor next sees her) and threw auto pilot on. Hell, maybe there was an
ape
> hidden on board who tried to get in to Stewart's capsule and caused the
> crack that eventually seals her fate.
>
> I am simply asking the "Time-Line" authorities in the group (and there
seems
> to be a few, all with different opinions) where such a scenario would best
> fit.
>
> Does anyone have anything useful to say in response (almost and ironic
> question)?
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Aanother interesting thing is the first one to say "Ape Shall Not Kill
Ape" (Ursus in "Beneath") is a general in the army. What do they do if they
are attacked by another society of apes? We say it's a sin to kill, except
executions and war. The ambiguities of their laws reflect our own.

- - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: <veetus@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: [pota] Something wierd in 1968 movie


> The movie answer is that the apes don't consider execution a breaking of
> the law, just as we say it's a sin to kill another human being but execute
> people all the time.
>
> I think the real world answer is that "Ape Shall Not Kill Ape" first made
> it's appearance in "Beneath" and became a mantra for Paul Dehn. For
writers
> of the first film, that concept probably didn't exist.
>
> - - - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "colicab743" <ryanc_873@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 1:07 AM
> Subject: [pota] Something wierd in 1968 movie
>
>
> > Well, you all know the rule - Ape shall not kill Ape. You know in
> > the 1968 movie where the group is on the beach and Zaius asks
> > Cornelius and Zira to reconsider the rash course they've undertaken,
> > and tells them that if they keep on pointing guns in their direction,
> > they'll "HANG" for high treason, why does Zaius say that when he
> > knows that the rule is ape shall not kill ape, and basically saying
> > that he'll kill them. I found it wierd, I suggest you watch the
> > original and see what I mean.
> >
> > -ryan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Here's a guy who might be able to help: williamfblake@...
. - - - - Jeff

P.S. - He worked on the TV series and has some of the original makeup
molds. He's known for re-creating the characters faithfully.

----- Original Message -----
From: "sand_hill_school" <sand_hill_school@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 6:55 AM
Subject: [pota] pota masks/costumes


> We are new to the group and are enjoying all 13684 previous
> postings. In 12 hours I have considered things I hadn't thought of
> previously and have found information that I didn't know existed.
> Great contributions! We are looking for a source of used or very
> reasonably priced old style pota masks and/or costumes to be used by
> students in a parade. We are trying to "replicate" the Apes costumes
> as closely as possible with thrift shop castoffs and glue gun. Masks
> would be especially helpful (although we HAVE had a great time trying
> to make those). At this time we are thinking about using the scene
> with the Statue of Liberty and having apes from the other movies
> walking beside the float. Many thanks for your ideas.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.htmlIn a message dated 12/19/01 6:45:24 AM Eastern Standard Time, jameshburns@... writes:

From today's HOLLYWOOD REPORTER, some interesting news, and a fiiting tribute to the classic launched by Pierre Boulle, Arthur P. Jacobs, Rod Serling,Charlton Heston,Franklin J. Schaffner, Michael G. Wilson, John Chambers, Jack Martin Smith and William Creber, and Morton Haack.

Best, Jim Burns    (James H. Burns)
_________________________________________


THE HOLLYWOOD REPORTER

Tuesday, Dec. 18, 2001


LIBRARY OF CONGRESS ADDS 'JAWS,' 'APES' TO FILM REGISTRY


Cultural icons populate the list of 25 titles chosen today by the librarian of Congress for inclusion this year in the National Film Registry. Included among the 25 are "Jaws," "Planet of the Apes" and "Animal House." "You can look through the list and see key moments in American film and popular culture," said Gregory Lukow, the Library's assistant chief of motion pictures, broadcast and recorded sound division. "In terms of the cultural iconography of a number of films, 'Planet of the Apes,' especially the last scene, represents a particular moment in American iconography." (Brooks Boliek)


Copyright  2001 The Hollywood Reporter.   

YES!!!!!    Thanks everybody here who emailed the film registry!

OH YEAH!

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 12/19/01 6:57:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

Maybe it is just a matter of semantics - ape may not be considered to kill
ape in an execution.

Was the "Ape Shall Not Kill Ape" philosopgy in the Boulle novel or an
invention of the screen adaptation?  Also, when was it first mentioned?

Michael

"Ape Shall Not Kill Ape" first appeared in BENEATH.  Fans have to remember that the original wasn't made with any sequels in mind.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 12/19/01 7:09:20 AM Eastern Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

So if penis headed mutants can exist, why is it so difficult to think of a
scenario where Stewart landed before Taylor et al (and only her chamber
opened), has an adventure, and gets back in the ship after her adventure
(which could have gone on for 50 years, considering the state of her when
Taylor next sees her) and threw auto pilot on.  Hell, maybe there was an ape
hidden on board who tried to get in to Stewart's capsule and caused the
crack that eventually seals her fate.

I am simply asking the "Time-Line" authorities in the group (and there seems
to be a few, all with different opinions) where such a scenario would best
fit.

Does anyone have anything useful to say in response (almost and ironic
question)?

Michael

I think that if Stewart had survived she'd have seen plenty of penis-headed mutants because the apes would have only seen her as a female for breeding purposes.  Blonds were pretty scarce on the planet of the apes.  Hey, maybe this is the plot of "Playmate of the Apes"?

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 12/19/01 12:27:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

 I never said I WASN'T on drugs, bro! Let's party!

                                                           - - - Jeff

Who smokes or has smoked pot in this group?  I have and do when I can get it.  I remember one time being so stoned on weed (this was over twenty years ago) and on the TV a station was showing BATTLE.  All the gorillas looked to me like 'shit-faces,' like they were guys with shit on their faces.  I couldn't watch the damn thing.  Man, was I stoned.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 12/19/01 12:36:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

 Another interesting thing is the first one to say "Ape Shall Not Kill
Ape" (Ursus in "Beneath") is a general in the army. What do they do if they
are attacked by another society of apes? We say it's a sin to kill, except
executions and war. The ambiguities of their laws reflect our own.

                                                             - - - Jeff

One of the things I've always disliked about BENEATH was that suddenly there was this gorilla general and an army.  In the original book and film the apes only had a police force.  What would an isolated society need an army for?

-- Rory<.html

What you got bro?

I suspect young Joe (cheesegotas) has a stash too....come on out Joe and
bring your gear!

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: veetus@... [veetus@...]
> Sent: Thursday, 20 December 2001 4:28

>
> I never said I WASN'T on drugs, bro! Let's party!
>
> - - - Jeff
>

What about Brian P?

He should be able to help with some guidance.

His website is

apemania.com

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: veetus@... [veetus@...]

Here's a guy who might be able to help: williamfblake@...
- - - - Jeff

P.S. - He worked on the TV series and has some of the original makeup molds.
He's known for re-creating the characters faithfully.

----- Original Message -----
From: "sand_hill_school" <sand_hill_school@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 6:55 AM
Subject: [pota] pota masks/costumes

We are looking for a source of used or very reasonably priced old style pota
masks and/or costumes to be used by students in a parade. We are trying to
"replicate" the Apes costumes as closely as possible with thrift shop
castoffs and glue gun. Masks would be especially helpful (although we HAVE
had a great time trying to make those).

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: Haristas@... [Haristas@...]
Sent: Thursday, 20 December 2001 6:28


 I never said I WASN'T on drugs, bro! Let's party!

                                                           - - - Jeff

Who smokes or has smoked pot in this group?  I have and do when I can get it.  I remember one time being so stoned on weed (this was over twenty years ago) and on the TV a station was showing BATTLE.  All the gorillas looked to me like 'shit-faces,' like they were guys with shit on their faces.  I couldn't watch the damn thing.  Man, was I stoned.

-- Rory
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 11:27 AM

Subject: Re: [pota] Try Again

In a message dated 12/19/01 12:27:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

 I never said I WASN'T on drugs, bro! Let's party!

                                                           - - - Jeff

Who smokes or has smoked pot in this group?  I have and do when I can get it.  I remember one time being so stoned on weed (this was over twenty years ago) and on the TV a station was showing BATTLE.  All the gorillas looked to me like 'shit-faces,' like they were guys with shit on their faces.  I couldn't watch the damn thing.  Man, was I stoned.

-- Rory
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Michael Whitty

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 12:37 PM

Subject: [pota] Try this again (OT)

I stooped 5 years ago (with cigarettes) but before that I was a full timer (20 bongs a day minimum).

 

When I finally get back to the US, I'll know where to score (it is true, you guys get THE best pot!).

 

Michael (I mean Norbert)

-----Original Message-----
From: Haristas@... [mailto:Haristas@...]
Sent: Thursday, 20 December 2001 6:28


 I never said I WASN'T on drugs, bro! Let's party!

                                                           - - - Jeff

Who smokes or has smoked pot in this group?  I have and do when I can get it.  I remember one time being so stoned on weed (this was over twenty years ago) and on the TV a station was showing BATTLE.  All the gorillas looked to me like 'shit-faces,' like they were guys with shit on their faces.  I couldn't watch the damn thing.  Man, was I stoned.

-- Rory
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

Attachments :

.html <.html

Yes. The deluxe Behind dvd set is sold on its own. It's a 2 disc set...and I know that(locally) Best Buy still has it in stock...Check it out there...

Actually, in Battle it was changed to Ape shall never kill Ape

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Michael Whitty

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 12:37 PM

Subject: [pota] Try this again (OT)

I stooped 5 years ago (with cigarettes) but before that I was a full timer (20 bongs a day minimum).

 

When I finally get back to the US, I'll know where to score (it is true, you guys get THE best pot!).

 

Michael (I mean Norbert)

-----Original Message-----
From: Haristas@... [mailto:Haristas@...]
Sent: Thursday, 20 December 2001 6:28


 I never said I WASN'T on drugs, bro! Let's party!

                                                           - - - Jeff

Who smokes or has smoked pot in this group?  I have and do when I can get it.  I remember one time being so stoned on weed (this was over twenty years ago) and on the TV a station was showing BATTLE.  All the gorillas looked to me like 'shit-faces,' like they were guys with shit on their faces.  I couldn't watch the damn thing.  Man, was I stoned.

-- Rory
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .
<.html

I think you should create a message board for this community, like
from http://www.infopop.com or http://www.everyone.net - Infopop is a
bit exspensive, but it's good (check out http://www.nightly.net for
an example). Just an idea..

-ryan

.htmlIn a message dated 12/19/01 8:46:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

 Despite being on video for a month, POTA is still climbing the box office at U.S. theatres. According to "Variety", last week it was #38, this week it's #32. It's $500,000 from crossing the $180 million barrier. Although it's not going to pull off a miracle and suddenly pass $200 million (it's still in question whether it'll pass $180 m. at this level). But that's pretty good for a movie you can rent at Blockbuster. "Jurassic Park 3" dropped from #50 to #58.

                                                           - - - Jeff



Amazing!  I was at Blockbuster last night and saw that nearly all the POTA 2001 DVDs were out.  What did I rent?  "Rush Hour 2"!  It was okay, but why that film made so much money is beyond me.  I guess people are just really bored.  I still can't get myself to rent "Tomb Raider."  I guess this weekend "Lord of the Rings" will rule the planet.

-- Rory<.html