.htmlIn a message dated 2/10/02 9:01:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, Hardguy718@... writes:

>I think, based on a few other details I remember, that I'd actually
be able to
> work out the exact date and time of the TV screening of Battle that
first
> hooked me! That'd be nice to know (for me only perhaps).
>
> Alan

FYI Battle premired on CBS TV on Friday January 17, 1975 at 8PM EST.
The ran till 9:30PM as part of a double feature. Hope that helps.
James

Not really. . . Alan here lives in Scotland.

-- Rory<.html

i was always under the impression that the spelling was "Simos," coming from
the word "simian"

-Sammo_of_Borg

>From: LordTZer0@...
>Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Lawgiver's name
>Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 12:30:45 EST
>
>
> > Semus? maybe?
>
>
>Yeah, that's it Shamus!
>He was Irish. You can tell from his red hair.
>But seriously. The Lawgiver doesn't have a name.

_____

.htmlIn a message dated 2/10/02 9:18:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, sammo_of_borg@... writes:

i hope i dont sound to ignorant or anything, but in case you need proof of
that john huston played the lawgiver in battle for the planet of the apes. 
in the movie, one of his human students or whatever refers to him as the
lawgiver.  forgive me if this is common knowledge or something

-Sammo_of_Borg

Yes, this is common knowledge.  John Huston PLAYED the Lawgiver.  We were talking about what the Lawgiver's name is, as in a name for the dude, not the name of the guy who played the dude.  Anyway, you're forgiven.

-- Rory<.html

i personally enjoy Conquest of the Planet of the Apes better. the action
scenes are awesome when the apes take over, the government has evolved so
much, and the monologue that Caesar delivers at the end is awesome (except
for that last part that was added later, with the exception of "tonight, we
have seen the birth of the planet of the apes!") the only thing i hate is
how at the end right before the battle, Caesar appears to be omnipresent
when he signals the mini-revolts. also, that stupid thing he does when he
nods his head and closes his eyes is annoying. but i really love the movie
nontheless.

-Sammo_of_Borg

>From: MTotsky@...
>Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Check out eBay item 1510928914 (Ends
>Feb-11-02 20:57:48 PST ) - BENEATH THE P
>Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 11:54:54 EST
>
>That is a cool poster!
>
>You know, I just watched BENEATH last night. For some reason I had the urge
>to check it out. I still contend that it is the most entertaining mess of a
>movie ever made. There are some great visuals there. Too bad Chuck
>sabotaged it.
>
>Matt

_____

does anyone know where i can buy the medicom action figures online (besides
ebay)? thanks

-Sammo_of_Borg

>From: <veetus@...>
>Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] We need input. What's new with you?.
>Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 20:58:58 -0800
>
> My local collectibles store has the Kubricks for around $12 now. I
>guess
>they heard the low price ones are coming. I picked up the wagon cage one
>and
>the Ursus with horse one (basically the 2 gorilla sets). And I already had
>the ape-o-nauts and ship. Some think they're stupid but I love them. And
>I'm
>not alone. I see there's a lot of American imitators, icluding one company
>that's doing "The Simpsons". I'd like to see a version of the POTA musical.
>Now that's entertainment! - - - Jeff
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Alan Maxwell" <alan@...>
>To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2002 10:50 AM
>Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] We need input. What's new with you?.
>
>
> > Matt <MTotsky@...> wrote:
> > > I know Diamond has the Kubricks out now as well. They are around $12 a
>set
> > I
> > > think.
> >
> > According to the last issue of Previews, the Kubricks have been held
>back
> > until May (they were supposed to be shipping in Jan/Feb). A two-page
>advert
> > appeared (twice!) in Previews. (see attachments)
> >
> > Alan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> >
> >
>

_____

In a message dated 2/10/02 9:32:50 PM, sammo_of_borg@... writes:

<< does anyone know where i can buy the medicom action figures online
(besides
ebay)? thanks >>

If I were you, I would wait a few months. That's when they arrive
domestically at comic's shops through Diamond Distributors. You should be
able to get them for around $10 apiece, which is a lot better than the $30
apiece most of paid a year or so ago.

Matt

.html JLA PILOT!!!  Eeeeeghad!!!  I was there!!!!  We were finishing up on Batman & Robin at the time.  Warner Bros was a bustling superhero haven back then; Lois and Clark, Batman, JLA and  Animaniacs!!!  I tell you, those studio restrooms were quite the site!!!

Brian

Alan Maxwell wrote:

 
I've never seen the F4 film, but as for the Justice League... have you ever
seen the rejected pilot episode for the live action JLA series? Comics fans
are still receiving counselling as a result of that one.

Alan

------------------------ ---------------------~-->

<.html

.html Believe me folks, for those who haven't seen it, you aren't missing anything.  File that one under "someone owes me 90 minutes of my life".  I'll cash that one in at the end of my tour of duty on this planet.

My understanding, and this may have already been discussed, was Corman had the "option" for F4 when Cameron started talking about doing one as well as the Apes.  So Corman quickly rushed his F4 into production so that if anyone else, like Cameron, wants to make one, they have to buy out Corman's interest.  Or so I hear.

brian

Alan Maxwell wrote:

"Ken & Heather Taylor" <kentaylor@...> wrote:
> Oh, and I believe Fox have the rights for Fantastic 4 and in fact a
completed
> version made in the early 90's  starring Jay Underwood is sitting on the
shelf
> never to see the light of day because of the more recent Fox deal. It's
> clobberin' time!

You missed out the best part, Ken - it was made by Roger Corman!

Alan

------------------------ ---------------------~-->
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Monitoring Service trial
http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/9_IolB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~->
 
 

<.html

Just curious, which ones are you looking for?

>
> In a message dated 2/10/02 9:32:50 PM, sammo_of_borg@h... writes:
>
> << does anyone know where i can buy the medicom action figures

online

> (besides
> ebay)? thanks >>

well, right now im kinda low on funds, but im just tryin to find any online
store that sells them for reasonable prices. also, can anyone describe what
the Caesar variant looks like as well as the Caesar Land's Ape variant? i
am having difficulty finding those on ebay, as well as the cornelius
variant. (though i dont have sufficient funds right now, i am saving my
money so that i can get one of them)

-Sammo_of_Borg

>From: "james611102" <Hardguy718@...>
>Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] We need input. What's new with you?.
>Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 05:00:35 -0000
>
>Just curious, which ones are you looking for?
> >
> > In a message dated 2/10/02 9:32:50 PM, sammo_of_borg@h... writes:
> >
> > << does anyone know where i can buy the medicom action figures
>online
> > (besides
> > ebay)? thanks >>
>
>

_____

i heard that they were designing new boxes and redesigning the figures for
the ones in america

>From: MTotsky@...
>Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] We need input. What's new with you?.
>Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 21:46:49 EST
>
>
>In a message dated 2/10/02 9:32:50 PM, sammo_of_borg@... writes:
>
><< does anyone know where i can buy the medicom action figures online
>(besides
>ebay)? thanks >>
>
>If I were you, I would wait a few months. That's when they arrive
>domestically at comic's shops through Diamond Distributors. You should be
>able to get them for around $10 apiece, which is a lot better than the $30
>apiece most of paid a year or so ago.
>
>Matt

_____

>From: "Sammo Law" <sammo_of_borg@...>
>Subject: Re: Lawgiver's name
>i was always under the impression that the spelling was "Simos," coming from
>the word "simian"

I've always seen it spelled as "Semos," an anagram of "Moses."

.html I was told by another company who came to visit our studio a few months ago, that Medicom is re-designing the packaging for the US release and reworking 3 of the figures:  The Taylor lioncloth, one of the Gorilla soldiers, and another that slips my mind right now.

That's what I know.

Brian

Sammo Law wrote:

i heard that they were designing new boxes and redesigning the figures for
the ones in america

>From: MTotsky@...-------~->
 
 

<.html

Attachments :

.html Hey Sammo,

Here's some pix of the figs you're asking about.

The Cornelius Variant is a dark-stained costume, with no stain on the face or hands.  Manufacturing error?  Who knows?  Supposedly there was only one variant from the original run packed in each box of 12 or 24 regular Cornelius' that were shipped out.  Prices from dealers and ebay have ranged between $75 and $125 for the Corn Variant.

You'll also see an image of the 3 CAESAR's although there is no variant here.  The LANDS' APE is just a chimp slave, not another version of Caesar.

The other variant out there is the Beneath Gorilla with the sub machine gun.

Hope this helps.

Brian

Sammo Law wrote:

well, right now im kinda low on funds, but im just tryin to find any online
store that sells them for reasonable prices.  also, can anyone describe what
the Caesar variant looks like as well as the Caesar Land's Ape variant?  i
am having difficulty finding those on ebay, as well as the cornelius
variant.  (though i dont have sufficient funds right now, i am saving my
money so that i can get one of them)

-Sammo_of_Borg

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 6:21 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Lawgiver's name

In a message dated 2/10/02 9:18:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, sammo_of_borg@... writes:

i hope i dont sound to ignorant or anything, but in case you need proof of
that john huston played the lawgiver in battle for the planet of the apes. 
in the movie, one of his human students or whatever refers to him as the
lawgiver.  forgive me if this is common knowledge or something

-Sammo_of_Borg

Yes, this is common knowledge.  John Huston PLAYED the Lawgiver.  We were talking about what the Lawgiver's name is, as in a name for the dude, not the name of the guy who played the dude.  Anyway, you're forgiven.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Brian

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 8:53 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Roger Corman's F4

Believe me folks, for those who haven't seen it, you aren't missing anything.  File that one under "someone owes me 90 minutes of my life".  I'll cash that one in at the end of my tour of duty on this planet.

My understanding, and this may have already been discussed, was Corman had the "option" for F4 when Cameron started talking about doing one as well as the Apes.  So Corman quickly rushed his F4 into production so that if anyone else, like Cameron, wants to make one, they have to buy out Corman's interest.  Or so I hear.

brian

Alan Maxwell wrote:

"Ken & Heather Taylor" <kentaylor@...> wrote:
> Oh, and I believe Fox have the rights for Fantastic 4 and in fact a
completed
> version made in the early 90's  starring Jay Underwood is sitting on the
shelf
> never to see the light of day because of the more recent Fox deal. It's
> clobberin' time!

You missed out the best part, Ken - it was made by Roger Corman!

Alan

------------------------ ---------------------~-->
Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck
Monitoring Service trial
http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/9_IolB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~->
 
 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Brian

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 6:28 AM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] designing new boxes and redesigning the figures

I was told by another company who came to visit our studio a few months ago, that Medicom is re-designing the packaging for the US release and reworking 3 of the figures:  The Taylor lioncloth, one of the Gorilla soldiers, and another that slips my mind right now.

That's what I know.

Brian

Sammo Law wrote:

i heard that they were designing new boxes and redesigning the figures for
the ones in america

>From: MTotsky@...-------~->
 
 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Brian

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 6:48 AM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Medicom Variants

Hey Sammo,

Here's some pix of the figs you're asking about.

The Cornelius Variant is a dark-stained costume, with no stain on the face or hands.  Manufacturing error?  Who knows?  Supposedly there was only one variant from the original run packed in each box of 12 or 24 regular Cornelius' that were shipped out.  Prices from dealers and ebay have ranged between $75 and $125 for the Corn Variant.

You'll also see an image of the 3 CAESAR's although there is no variant here.  The LANDS' APE is just a chimp slave, not another version of Caesar.

The other variant out there is the Beneath Gorilla with the sub machine gun.

Hope this helps.

Brian

Sammo Law wrote:

well, right now im kinda low on funds, but im just tryin to find any online
store that sells them for reasonable prices.  also, can anyone describe what
the Caesar variant looks like as well as the Caesar Land's Ape variant?  i
am having difficulty finding those on ebay, as well as the cornelius
variant.  (though i dont have sufficient funds right now, i am saving my
money so that i can get one of them)

-Sammo_of_Borg

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

---

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: veetus@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 8:53 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Roger Corman's F4

   Brian - - -

 

   I heard it was Chris Columbus who was doing F4 when HE was doing "Apes". Cameron's big thing was "Spiderman". But Columbus had a parting of the ways with Fox and now someone else is doing F4 (Columbus is planning 7 "Harry Potter"s, one a year, so he won't see anything but a blur for a while).

                

                                                             - - - Jeff

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Brian

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 8:53 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Roger Corman's F4

Believe me folks, for those who haven't seen it, you aren't missing anything.  File that one under "someone owes me 90 minutes of my life".  I'll cash that one in at the end of my tour of duty on this planet.

My understanding, and this may have already been discussed, was Corman had the "option" for F4 when Cameron started talking about doing one as well as the Apes.  So Corman quickly rushed his F4 into production so that if anyone else, like Cameron, wants to make one, they have to buy out Corman's interest.  Or so I hear.

brian

Alan Maxwell wrote:

"Ken & Heather Taylor" <kentaylor@...> wrote:
> Oh, and I believe Fox have the rights for Fantastic 4 and in fact a
completed
> version made in the early 90's  starring Jay Underwood is sitting on the
shelf
> never to see the light of day because of the more recent Fox deal. It's
> clobberin' time!

You missed out the best part, Ken - it was made by Roger Corman!

Alan

------------------------ ---------------------~-->
Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck
Monitoring Service trial
http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/9_IolB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~->
 
 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html Hank is good.  Waldo was my second choice.

B

veetus@... wrote:

  I say we just refer to the Lawgiver as Hank. Any objections?                                     - - - Jeff  

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 6:21 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Lawgiver's name

 In a message dated 2/10/02 9:18:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, sammo_of_borg@... writes:
 
 

i hope i dont sound to ignorant or anything, but in case you need proof of
that john huston played the lawgiver in battle for the planet of the apes.
in the movie, one of his human students or whatever refers to him as the
lawgiver.  forgive me if this is common knowledge or something

-Sammo_of_Borg
 
 

Yes, this is common knowledge.  John Huston PLAYED the Lawgiver.  We were talking about what the Lawgiver's name is, as in a name for the dude, not the name of the guy who played the dude.  Anyway, you're forgiven.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

<.html

.html No, thje whole line will ape-pear, but those three figures will be "new and improved".

B

veetus@... wrote:

  By "reworking" you mean they're going to change them? Or is that the only 3 they'll release?                                                             - - - - Jeff  

----- Original Message -----

From: Brian

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 6:28 AM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] designing new boxes and redesigning the figures

 I was told by another company who came to visit our studio a few months ago, that Medicom is re-designing the packaging for the US release and reworking 3 of the figures:  The Taylor lioncloth, one of the Gorilla soldiers, and another that slips my mind right now.

That's what I know.

Brian

Sammo Law wrote:

i heard that they were designing new boxes and redesigning the figures for
the ones in america

>From: MTotsky@...-------~->
 
 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 2/11/02 11:43:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

  I say we just refer to the Lawgiver as Hank. Any objections?                                     - - - Jeff

Murray P. Lawgiver sounds better.  Oh Vey!<.html

Attachments :

.htmlhad some time on my vacation to do some paintings...What do you think..Rob in Philadelphia <.html

Attachments :

.htmlWhat do you guys think?
Rob in Philadelphia<.html

.html <.html

.html <.html

.html
<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian [apeman@...]
Sent: Tuesday, 12 February 2002 4:42
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] designing new boxes and redesigning thefigures

No, thje whole line will ape-pear, but those three figures will be "new and improved".

B

veetus@... wrote:

  By "reworking" you mean they're going to change them? Or is that the only 3 they'll release?                                                             - - - - Jeff  

----- Original Message -----

From: Brian

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 6:28 AM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] designing new boxes and redesigning the figures

 I was told by another company who came to visit our studio a few months ago, that Medicom is re-designing the packaging for the US release and reworking 3 of the figures:  The Taylor lioncloth, one of the Gorilla soldiers, and another that slips my mind right now.

That's what I know.

Brian

Sammo Law wrote:

i heard that they were designing new boxes and redesigning the figures for
the ones in america

>From: MTotsky@...-------~->
 
 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

<.html

Attachments :

.html had some time on my vacation to do some paintings...What do you think..Rob in Philadelphia

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .
<.html

i just got my first medicom planet of the apes figure in the mail (Dr.
Zaius!) and i love it! im gonna collect them all. if the american boxes
look nice, i'll get those too.

-Sammo_of_Borg

>From: Brian <apeman@...>
>Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] designing new boxes and redesigning the
>figures
>Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 09:41:44 -0800
>
>No, thje whole line will ape-pear, but those three figures will be "new
>and improved".
>
>B
>
>veetus@... wrote:
>
> > By "reworking" you mean they're going to change them? Or is that the
> > only 3 they'll
> > release? -
> > - - - Jeff
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Brian
> > To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 6:28 AM
> > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] designing new boxes and
> > redesigning the figures
> > I was told by another company who came to visit our studio
> > a few months ago, that Medicom is re-designing the packaging
> > for the US release and reworking 3 of the figures: The
> > Taylor lioncloth, one of the Gorilla soldiers, and another
> > that slips my mind right now.
> >
> > That's what I know.
> >
> > Brian
> >
> > Sammo Law wrote:
> >
> > > i heard that they were designing new boxes and redesigning
> > > the figures for
> > > the ones in america
> > >
> > > >From: MTotsky@...-------~->
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > Service.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

_____

i never thought of that. hmm... interesting

>From: Rich Handley <handleyr@...>
>Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Digest Number 900
>Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 07:07:54 -0500
>
> >From: "Sammo Law" <sammo_of_borg@...>
> >Subject: Re: Lawgiver's name
> >i was always under the impression that the spelling was "Simos," coming
>from
> >the word "simian"
>
>I've always seen it spelled as "Semos," an anagram of "Moses."
>
>
>

_____

Not just interesting but true - I have heard Burton comment on this and of
Leo's comparison to Christ "Son Of David" - "Davidson".

The spelling is Semos in novelisations and scripts, too.

Who would have ever thought POTA 2001 had a degree of thought involved in
any of it?

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sammo Law [sammo_of_borg@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, 12 February 2002 7:50
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Digest Number 900
>
>
> i never thought of that. hmm... interesting
>
>
> >From: Rich Handley <handleyr@...>
> >Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> >To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Digest Number 900
> >Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 07:07:54 -0500
> >
> > >From: "Sammo Law" <sammo_of_borg@...>
> > >Subject: Re: Lawgiver's name
> > >i was always under the impression that the spelling was
> "Simos," coming
> >from
> > >the word "simian"
> >
> >I've always seen it spelled as "Semos," an anagram of "Moses."
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> _____

thanks! i believe that i have seen the cornelius variant on ebay once. the
only caesar on ebay that ive ever seen has always had the chain. i may save
my money for that one fateful day when i find one. thanks for the help!

-Sammo_of_Borg

>From: Brian <apeman@...>
>Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Medicom Variants
>Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 06:48:10 -0800
>
>Hey Sammo,
>
>Here's some pix of the figs you're asking about.
>
>The Cornelius Variant is a dark-stained costume, with no stain on the face
>or
>hands. Manufacturing error? Who knows? Supposedly there was only one
>variant
>from the original run packed in each box of 12 or 24 regular Cornelius'
>that
>were shipped out. Prices from dealers and ebay have ranged between $75 and
>$125 for the Corn Variant.
>
>You'll also see an image of the 3 CAESAR's although there is no variant
>here.
>The LANDS' APE is just a chimp slave, not another version of Caesar.
>
>The other variant out there is the Beneath Gorilla with the sub machine
>gun.
>
>Hope this helps.
>
>Brian
>
>Sammo Law wrote:
>
> > well, right now im kinda low on funds, but im just tryin to find any
>online
> > store that sells them for reasonable prices. also, can anyone describe
>what
> > the Caesar variant looks like as well as the Caesar Land's Ape variant?
>i
> > am having difficulty finding those on ebay, as well as the cornelius
> > variant. (though i dont have sufficient funds right now, i am saving my
> > money so that i can get one of them)
> >
> > -Sammo_of_Borg
><< Medicoms.jpeg >>

_____

--- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:

> Not just interesting but true - I have heard Burton comment on this

and of

> Leo's comparison to Christ "Son Of David" - "Davidson".
>
> The spelling is Semos in novelisations and scripts, too.
>
> Who would have ever thought POTA 2001 had a degree of thought

involved in

> any of it?
>
> Michael

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

Yeah, Michael. Kinda shows how deeply shallow it was.

--Helen

<Haristas@...> wrote:

> > FYI Battle premired on CBS TV on Friday January 17, 1975 at 8PM EST.
> > The ran till 9:30PM as part of a double feature. Hope that helps.
> > James
>
> Not really. . . Alan here lives in Scotland.

And wasn't born until 1977... but I appreciate the thought!

Alan

In a message dated 2/11/02 10:43:33 AM Central Standard Time,
veetus@... writes:

<< I say we just refer to the Lawgiver as Hank. Any objections?
- - - Jeff >>

Yes, Jerry sounds better.

-Joe

These... are awesome. Good work. *Drool*

-Joe

Speaking of Ape Art!...
Week before last I went to an art show where the artist painted exclusively
on round canvases. Many of his works had a POTA theme. The majority of
which were either Ursus, Zaius or the Lawgiver. There were a few POTA toys
on the shelves as well.
Yours are damned good as well. Did you use a projector or are they freehand?

.htmlIn a message dated 2/11/02 3:02:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, pterosaur3@... writes:

had some time on my vacation to do some paintings...What do you think..Rob in Philadelphia

Pretty good.  Taken from photos obviously.  Very retro-sixties, Andy Warhol-ish.

-- Rory in Ft. Lauderdale<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 2/11/02 3:56:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

Who would have ever thought POTA 2001 had a degree of thought involved in
any of it?

Michael

If only they'e spent some more time thinking about and realized they better get another script!

-- Rory<.html

.htmlClick here: eBay item 1513349604 (Ends Feb-17-02 22:02:36 PST ) - RODDY McDOWELL Life Mask PLANET OF THE APES

A bit creepy, don't you guys think?  Also, it's McDowAll!

-- Rory<.html

Hey Brian,

What can you tell me about those "Bathing Apes?" Those are kind of cool. How
much did they cost? Where did you get them? How many are there in the set?

Matt

.html Hiya Matt and gang,

Wow.  What can I say about Bathing Apes?  Of the toys, I know that there were at least two lines of the toys I sent the foto of , a color version and a silver painted version.  I went for the color ones.

"A BATHING APE" or BAPE or B.A.P.E. "APE SHALL NOT KILL APE"   is ape-parently a HUGE phenomenon in Japan, much like Pokeman and Cabbage Patch kids were once here in the USA, but on a much larger more college-targeted market.  It's a weird a very large sub culture of t-shirts, clothing lines (purses, raincoats, etc) and just a whole lotta STUFF!!!  HOT SELLING STUFF TOO!   A lot of the art work is based on New York artist RUSLAN KARABLIN and his  Rebel Ape designs. We've done a custom Che Ape bust for him.  Those of you in New York and New Jersey should try to visit his studio.  He's about a mile away from ground zero.

I still can't comprehend  all of the Bathing Ape thing, most of the sites I've found in the past few years are all in Japanese, so I can tell you too much about it.  Here's some links though.  It's kinda hit and miss with the e-mails.  I think I had found one dealer with a fax number and had faxed an inquiry that I got a response to one maybe two years ago now.  I think the sets I got cam e out of the Phillipines.

Here's a few sites:
<http://www.shaolineurope.org/ape/level_article1.htm>  Great article of the Japanese Artist behind the CRAZE!!!
<http://www.stupidfish.free-online.co.uk/nigo.html">  Article about Nigo and some of the other Bathing Ape artists.

<http://fly.to/bape>
<http://www03.u-page.so-net.ne.jp/db3/t-rian/HOMEPAGE/HTML.htm>
<http://www03.u-page.so-net.ne.jp/db3/t-rian/HOMEPAGE/bape.com.htm>
<http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Highrise/3428/links.html">
<http://on.to/apecentral>
<http://www.shaolineurope.org/ape/apemo.htm>

Check Ebay for stuff too:

<http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1701349418>

Ask those dealers for leads as well.

Good luck,

Brian

MTotsky@... wrote:

Hey Brian,

What can you tell me about those "Bathing Apes?" Those are kind of cool. How
much did they cost? Where did you get them? How many are there in the set?

Matt

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Brian

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 8:47 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] "Bathing Apes"

Hiya Matt and gang,

Wow.  What can I say about Bathing Apes?  Of the toys, I know that there were at least two lines of the toys I sent the foto of , a color version and a silver painted version.  I went for the color ones.

"A BATHING APE" or BAPE or B.A.P.E. "APE SHALL NOT KILL APE"   is ape-parently a HUGE phenomenon in Japan, much like Pokeman and Cabbage Patch kids were once here in the USA, but on a much larger more college-targeted market.  It's a weird a very large sub culture of t-shirts, clothing lines (purses, raincoats, etc) and just a whole lotta STUFF!!!  HOT SELLING STUFF TOO!   A lot of the art work is based on New York artist RUSLAN KARABLIN and his  Rebel Ape designs. We've done a custom Che Ape bust for him.  Those of you in New York and New Jersey should try to visit his studio.  He's about a mile away from ground zero.

I still can't comprehend  all of the Bathing Ape thing, most of the sites I've found in the past few years are all in Japanese, so I can tell you too much about it.  Here's some links though.  It's kinda hit and miss with the e-mails.  I think I had found one dealer with a fax number and had faxed an inquiry that I got a response to one maybe two years ago now.  I think the sets I got cam e out of the Phillipines.

Here's a few sites:
<http://www.shaolineurope.org/ape/level_article1.htm>  Great article of the Japanese Artist behind the CRAZE!!!
<http://www.stupidfish.free-online.co.uk/nigo.html">  Article about Nigo and some of the other Bathing Ape artists.

<http://fly.to/bape>
<http://www03.u-page.so-net.ne.jp/db3/t-rian/HOMEPAGE/HTML.htm>
<http://www03.u-page.so-net.ne.jp/db3/t-rian/HOMEPAGE/bape.com.htm>
<http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Highrise/3428/links.html">
<http://on.to/apecentral>
<http://www.shaolineurope.org/ape/apemo.htm>

Check Ebay for stuff too:

<http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1701349418>

Ask those dealers for leads as well.

Good luck,

Brian

MTotsky@... wrote:

Hey Brian,

What can you tell me about those "Bathing Apes?" Those are kind of cool. How
much did they cost? Where did you get them? How many are there in the set?

Matt

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

Hey guys! Just wanted to give you the heads up that I'm selling off most of
my collection on ebay. Included are all the TV series novels with #4 and all
the Return to POTA novels. Also, the entire set of POTA comic magazines 1-29
and Marvel 1-11 set and lots of other goodies. The opening bids are really
low so check them out at LocutusAtWolf359's auctions. I'm not on this list
any more since the mail was overbearing but you can email me at
LocutusAtWolf359@... if you have any questions.

Loc

Jeff,

Actually the Troy McClure is already out. And an article today on cnn.com says that the Simpsons are now the hottest toy property around.

Matt

No Oscar nominations for POTA 2001.

Matt (who thought makeup and art direction were possibilites)

Matt - -

I guess you didn't notice that "Apes" got a screenplay nomination (OK, no
one's going to buy that). It would seem to me "Apes" was shut out on
principle. I mean, come on, "A Beautiful Mind" got a makeup nomination? I
hear there's one sequence where there's flashy makeup, but over "Apes"?
Maybe they penalized Baker because the Ari makeup was so infamous. What's
funny is Fox's critical darling, "Moulin Rouge", got a makeup nomination.
Well, things worked out for them. They were able to whore "Apes" for all the
money they could get and still get a Best Picture nomination with "Moulin
Rouge". Congrats, you **##@&&!
- - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: <MTotsky@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 7:02 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Shut Out


> No Oscar nominations for POTA 2001.
>
> Matt (who thought makeup and art direction were possibilites)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

The razzie nominations are out too (for worst stuff). Actually, "Apes"
didn't do bad; no nominations for worst picture, director, actors or even
script ("Pearl Harbor" was the big budget punching bag). Got noms for Worst
Supporting Actor (Heston, which includes his "Cats and Dogs" voiceover) and
Worst Supporting Actress (Estella Warren).
That's all she wrote. All we can do is hope for the best on the sequel or
convert to "Lord of the Rings" fans.
- - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: <MTotsky@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 7:02 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Shut Out


> No Oscar nominations for POTA 2001.
>
> Matt (who thought makeup and art direction were possibilites)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.htmlIn a message dated 2/12/02 11:44:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

I guess you didn't notice that "Apes" got a screenplay nomination (OK, no
one's going to buy that). It would seem to me "Apes" was shut out on
principle. I mean, come on, "A Beautiful Mind" got a makeup nomination? I
hear there's one sequence where there's flashy makeup, but over "Apes"?
Maybe they penalized Baker because the Ari makeup was so infamous. What's
funny is Fox's critical darling, "Moulin Rouge", got a makeup nomination.
Well, things worked out for them. They were able to whore "Apes" for all the
money they could get and still get a Best Picture nomination with "Moulin
Rouge". Congrats, you **##@&&!
                                                                 - - - Jeff

Well, I'm not surprised.  The Academy Awards is really just a popularity contest, not an indicator of quality, but I doubt POTA 2001 is very popular in Hollywood.  In fact, I'll bet it's an embarrassment to most involved.  And I'm glad Baker won't get an Academy Award for APES, because that 'honor' belongs to John Chambers, and Baker's work turned out to be just a slight reworking of Chamber's innovations, and with Ari a major misstep.

Come on everybody, let's face it and stop fooling around -- POTA 2001 was an ill-conceived idea executed with stunning ineptitude, and ending up as a completely forgettable pile of hot steaming monkey shit!

So, think they're will be a sequel?

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 2/12/02 11:49:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

That's all she wrote. All we can do is hope for the best on the sequel or
convert to "Lord of the Rings" fans.
                                                          - - - Jeff

How about keeping the faith with the original?!!!  We APES fans have lived in innocence for thirty years.  Let no greedy, shallow modern version of 20th Century Fox (plus that "Dick" Zanuck) dare to contaminate that innocence!

Jeff, you need to get out of L.A. and into the real world!

-- Rory<.html

Hi there, I'm new here. I'm a member of the potafanfic yahoo group
also, so if you're part of that too, I'm ThyPentacle. For those that
don't know me, I have a web site dedicated to the Chimpettes from the
new movie here:

http://thypentacle.tripod.com/ari.html"

You'll find lots of pictures, drawings, wallpapers, and a few
screensavers there. If you stop by, do please sign the guestbook.

Looking forward to my stay here.

Thanks,

ThyPentacle a.k.a. agnosticdragon

I think it best we just forget all about that movie.

No amount of make up will ever make up for it, and I think the Academy
agrees!

Michael

.html In a message dated 2/12/02 11:44:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

I guess you didn't notice that "Apes" got a screenplay nomination (OK, no
one's going to buy that). It would seem to me "Apes" was shut out on
principle. I mean, come on, "A Beautiful Mind" got a makeup nomination? I
hear there's one sequence where there's flashy makeup, but over "Apes"?
Maybe they penalized Baker because the Ari makeup was so infamous. What's
funny is Fox's critical darling, "Moulin Rouge", got a makeup nomination.
Well, things worked out for them. They were able to whore "Apes" for all the
money they could get and still get a Best Picture nomination with "Moulin
Rouge". Congrats, you **##@&&!
                                                                 - - - Jeff

Well, I'm not surprised.  The Academy Awards is really just a popularity contest, not an indicator of quality, but I doubt POTA 2001 is very popular in Hollywood.  In fact, I'll bet it's an embarrassment to most involved.  And I'm glad Baker won't get an Academy Award for APES, because that 'honor' belongs to John Chambers, and Baker's work turned out to be just a slight reworking of Chamber's innovations, and with Ari a major misstep.

Come on everybody, let's face it and stop fooling around -- POTA 2001 was an ill-conceived idea executed with stunning ineptitude, and ending up as a completely forgettable pile of hot steaming monkey shit!

So, think they're will be a sequel?

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .
<.html

Do you have a link?


Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: MTotsky@... [MTotsky@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, 13 February 2002 1:57
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Fair Warning
>
>
> Jeff,
>
> Actually the Troy McClure is already out. And an article today on
> cnn.com says that the Simpsons are now the hottest toy property around.
>
> Matt

In a message dated 2/11/02 6:31:01 PM Central Standard Time, Haristas@...
writes:

<< A bit creepy, don't you guys think? Also, it's McDowAll!

-- Rory

>>

A bit creepy? Yowzas! That's freaky.

-Joe

In a message dated 2/12/02 9:06:54 AM Central Standard Time, MTotsky@...
writes:

<< No Oscar nominations for POTA 2001.

Matt (who thought makeup and art direction were possibilites) >>

In a message dated 2/12/02 9:06:54 AM Central Standard Time, MTotsky@...
writes:

<< No Oscar nominations for POTA 2001.

Matt (who thought makeup and art direction were possibilites) >>

Sorry about the last message.

Not even for make-up, huh? Something smells fishy.

-Joe

In a message dated 2/12/02 1:26:33 PM Central Standard Time,
agnosticdragon@... writes:

<< Hi there, I'm new here. >>

Welcome. Your name seems familiar.

-Joe

.html Awwwww, c'mon kids.  Don't fight.
Jeffy, Rory's just a tad jealous cuz you got to touch Roddy's for-real Galen/Cornelius outfit.  Don't let him bully you.

Bri

Haristas@... wrote:

 In a message dated 2/12/02 11:49:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

How about keeping the faith with the original?!!!  We APES fans have lived in innocence for thirty years.

Let no greedy, shallow modern version of 20th Century Fox (plus that "Dick" Zanuck) dare to contaminate that innocence!

Jeff, you need to get out of L.A. and into the real world!

-- Rory
 

<.html

.html

Maybe they penalized Baker because the Ari makeup was so infamous

There are three things that lost Baker the nod.  The female apes -- Ari was just passable, due in no small part to H B-C's talents, but the rest were just awful.  Tim Roth's stiff upper lip.  And those denture lisps.  If they had only done a bit more dubbing it might have helped -- it sure wouldn't have hurt any.

<.html

The razzie nominations are out too (for worst stuff). Actually, "Apes"
didn't do bad; no nominations for worst picture, director, actors or even
script ("Pearl Harbor" was the big budget punching bag). Got noms for Worst
Supporting Actor (Heston, which includes his "Cats and Dogs" voiceover) and
Worst Supporting Actress (Estella Warren).

As I've often said it's not a bad picture, it just wasn't a great one. Being
fans of the original perhaps were a bit sensitive about it.

.html  
I disagree that APES 2001 wasn't nominated for those reasons.

Rick had stated not to long ago that he would not get the nom, but it wouldn't be because of bad designs.  The sheer volume of the task of making apes is worthy of a special achievement award, but Rick himself has stated that on any given day there might only have been 4 characters in actual make-ups.  The rest were all pull-over masks folks.  Hundreds of 'em.  So as a make-up show, something like Moulin Rouge was a bigger job because EVERY single character wore a wig and/or hairpieces, plus had a character make-up.  Lord of the Rings as well.

Jeff, were you at the nomination party on Saturday?  I was at an after-nomination nomination party Saturday night and heard some of the dirt, but nothing about Rick's presentation.

But what do I know, "I just push things around" (in my best indian accent)...

Brian
 

LordTZer0@... wrote:

 

Maybe they penalized Baker because the Ari makeup was so infamous

There are three things that lost Baker the nod.  The female apes -- Ari was just passable, due in no small part to H B-C's talents, but the rest were just awful.  Tim Roth's stiff upper lip.  And those denture lisps.  If they had only done a bit more dubbing it might have helped -- it sure wouldn't have hurt any.
 

<.html

.html

Ari a major misstep.

Ari's make up was good compared to Leeta's!
<.html

.html

I'm new here.

Welcome!  I have seen your site!  Well done!
And don't be afraid to wade into a scrap.
There's often a lot of infighting on this group.
Play nice, Rory...

<.html

.html

Welcome.  Your name seems familiar.

You may have seen him on some of the Ape chats.
Linda's wasn't it?


<.html

In a message dated 2/12/02 7:25:02 PM Central Standard Time,
LordTZer0@... writes:

<< You may have seen him on some of the Ape chats.
Linda's wasn't it? >>

Yeah, I'm sure that's where I've seen it now. ;)

Anyway, what's your favorite Apes movie new guy?

-Joe

Hey Thy,

Why is it that on your site you don't have a section devoted to Zira?
As Kim Hunter's number one fan, I gotta ask.

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: CheeseGOTAS@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 8:26 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Fresh meat.

In a message dated 2/12/02 7:25:02 PM Central Standard Time,
LordTZer0@... writes:

<< You may have seen him on some of the Ape chats.
Linda's wasn't it? >>

Yeah, I'm sure that's where I've seen it now.  ;)

Anyway, what's your favorite Apes movie new guy?

-Joe


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 8:52 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] I've been meaning to ask...

       Hey Thy,

Why is it that on your site you don't have a section devoted to Zira?
As Kim Hunter's number one fan, I gotta ask.


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

Maybe a small picture section if I can find some good ones of Zira.

Name the pic you want and I'll send it.

Two websites?  What's the other one?<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 10:04 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] I've been meaning to ask...

Maybe a small picture section if I can find some good ones of Zira.

Name the pic you want and I'll send it.

Two websites?  What's the other one?
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: ThyPentacle

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 10:13 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] I've been meaning to ask...

Hmmm, well, anything of good quality with her in full costume as Zira. You can zip them up and email them all to me if you like. As long as the zip file is under 1.4 megs. I don't think I can receive mail bigger than that. Or you could upload them and send me a link to get them if you want. It's really up to you. But I will certainly appreciate any pics you send, and I'll do my best to get them on my site ASAP. :o)

 

 

ThyPentacle

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 10:04 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] I've been meaning to ask...

Maybe a small picture section if I can find some good ones of Zira.

Name the pic you want and I'll send it.

Two websites?  What's the other one?
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

In a message dated 2/12/02 3:53:34 PM, whitty@... writes:

<< Do you have a link? >>

Here ya go:

http://www.cnn.com/2002/SHOWBIZ/TV/02/11/television.simpsons.reut/index.html"

Matt

You know I was kind of hoping Baker would get an Oscar for POTA 2001 just to
see if he would mention Chambers. That would have been cool. Not having seen
any of the films that got nominations in this category, I can't really say if
the snub was deservered or not. Of course, this kind of stuff happens all the
time at the Oscars. Despite what you may think of the film, the fact that
"The Phantom Menace" did not get nominated for art direction or costume
design a few years back was simply appalling.

Did anyone see the Oscars poster in theaters? It was painted by comics artist
Alex Ross ("Marvels," "Kingdom Come"). It is quite nice and even has a
tribute to the Bat Signal. I know we were talking comics the other day, so I
thought I'd mention in case anyone was interested.

Toodles

Matt

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 11:16 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Shut Out

In a message dated 2/12/02 11:44:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

I guess you didn't notice that "Apes" got a screenplay nomination (OK, no
one's going to buy that). It would seem to me "Apes" was shut out on
principle. I mean, come on, "A Beautiful Mind" got a makeup nomination? I
hear there's one sequence where there's flashy makeup, but over "Apes"?
Maybe they penalized Baker because the Ari makeup was so infamous. What's
funny is Fox's critical darling, "Moulin Rouge", got a makeup nomination.
Well, things worked out for them. They were able to whore "Apes" for all the
money they could get and still get a Best Picture nomination with "Moulin
Rouge". Congrats, you **##@&&!
                                                                 - - - Jeff

Well, I'm not surprised.  The Academy Awards is really just a popularity contest, not an indicator of quality, but I doubt POTA 2001 is very popular in Hollywood.  In fact, I'll bet it's an embarrassment to most involved.  And I'm glad Baker won't get an Academy Award for APES, because that 'honor' belongs to John Chambers, and Baker's work turned out to be just a slight reworking of Chamber's innovations, and with Ari a major misstep.

Come on everybody, let's face it and stop fooling around -- POTA 2001 was an ill-conceived idea executed with stunning ineptitude, and ending up as a completely forgettable pile of hot steaming monkey shit!

So, think they're will be a sequel?

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 11:21 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Razzie Dazzle

In a message dated 2/12/02 11:49:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

That's all she wrote. All we can do is hope for the best on the sequel or
convert to "Lord of the Rings" fans.
                                                          - - - Jeff

How about keeping the faith with the original?!!!  We APES fans have lived in innocence for thirty years.  Let no greedy, shallow modern version of 20th Century Fox (plus that "Dick" Zanuck) dare to contaminate that innocence!

Jeff, you need to get out of L.A. and into the real world!

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

Go to www.toymania.com . They have a good Toy Fair section. Check out the
"Platoon" figures.

- - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 12:53 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Simpsons Toys


> Do you have a link?
>
>
> Michael
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: MTotsky@... [MTotsky@...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, 13 February 2002 1:57
> > To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Fair Warning
> >
> >
> > Jeff,
> >
> > Actually the Troy McClure is already out. And an article today on
> > cnn.com says that the Simpsons are now the hottest toy property around.
> >
> > Matt
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Attachments :

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Brian

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 4:44 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Shut Out

 
I disagree that APES 2001 wasn't nominated for those reasons.

Rick had stated not to long ago that he would not get the nom, but it wouldn't be because of bad designs.  The sheer volume of the task of making apes is worthy of a special achievement award, but Rick himself has stated that on any given day there might only have been 4 characters in actual make-ups.  The rest were all pull-over masks folks.  Hundreds of 'em.  So as a make-up show, something like Moulin Rouge was a bigger job because EVERY single character wore a wig and/or hairpieces, plus had a character make-up.  Lord of the Rings as well.

Jeff, were you at the nomination party on Saturday?  I was at an after-nomination nomination party Saturday night and heard some of the dirt, but nothing about Rick's presentation.

But what do I know, "I just push things around" (in my best indian accent)...

Brian
 

LordTZer0@... wrote:

 

Maybe they penalized Baker because the Ari makeup was so infamous

There are three things that lost Baker the nod.  The female apes -- Ari was just passable, due in no small part to H B-C's talents, but the rest were just awful.  Tim Roth's stiff upper lip.  And those denture lisps.  If they had only done a bit more dubbing it might have helped -- it sure wouldn't have hurt any.
 

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: ThyPentacle

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 6:41 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] I've been meaning to ask...

I'm mainly interested in the new 'chimp chicks' ;o)  but the main reason for a lack of a Zira section is very simple. No room. With all the pictures, wallpapers, screensavers, etc. that I have on the two websites I have on that server, I just don't have much room left. I'm using over 45 megabytes out of 50 as it is now. But I will try to make at least something Zira related available sometime in the future. Maybe a small picture section if I can find some good ones of Zira.

 

 

ThyPentacle

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 8:52 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] I've been meaning to ask...

       Hey Thy,

Why is it that on your site you don't have a section devoted to Zira?
As Kim Hunter's number one fan, I gotta ask.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: veetus@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 1:03 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] I've been meaning to ask...

  Oh, look! I'm blue! I gotta ask, Thy...why do you like the "new chimp chicks"? Everybody else hates them.

 

                                                           - - - Jeff

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: ThyPentacle

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 6:41 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] I've been meaning to ask...

I'm mainly interested in the new 'chimp chicks' ;o)  but the main reason for a lack of a Zira section is very simple. No room. With all the pictures, wallpapers, screensavers, etc. that I have on the two websites I have on that server, I just don't have much room left. I'm using over 45 megabytes out of 50 as it is now. But I will try to make at least something Zira related available sometime in the future. Maybe a small picture section if I can find some good ones of Zira.

 

 

ThyPentacle

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 8:52 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] I've been meaning to ask...

       Hey Thy,

Why is it that on your site you don't have a section devoted to Zira?
As Kim Hunter's number one fan, I gotta ask.

<.html

Who Cares! The Academy has already proved they're a
bunch of ignorants when Judy Garland didn't win for "A
Star Is Born." I say, I loved the first Ape Movie, and
I'm glad they made a new one, and I hope they make
another one! %#@!&* the academy!
John

.html

Thy...why do you like the "new chimp chicks"? Everybody else hates them.

Easy there, Jeff.  Not everyone hates all of them.
Ari has grown on my.  Granted I didn't much care for the Bo Derek look they started with.  And they could have certainly done something with the others.  But . . . Don't speak to me in absolutes!  The evidence IS contestable!<.html

.html

I still think the new 'Chimpettes' are much better.

I wouldn't say better.  Though I speak from bias.  The eyebrows are tough to get used to.  But they needed Something to distract from those all too simian noses!<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: veetus@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 1:03 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] I've been meaning to ask...

  Oh, look! I'm blue! I gotta ask, Thy...why do you like the "new chimp chicks"? Everybody else hates them.

 

                                                           - - - Jeff

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: ThyPentacle

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 6:41 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] I've been meaning to ask...

I'm mainly interested in the new 'chimp chicks' ;o)  but the main reason for a lack of a Zira section is very simple. No room. With all the pictures, wallpapers, screensavers, etc. that I have on the two websites I have on that server, I just don't have much room left. I'm using over 45 megabytes out of 50 as it is now. But I will try to make at least something Zira related available sometime in the future. Maybe a small picture section if I can find some good ones of Zira.

 

 

ThyPentacle

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 8:52 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] I've been meaning to ask...

       Hey Thy,

Why is it that on your site you don't have a section devoted to Zira?
As Kim Hunter's number one fan, I gotta ask.


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

Well I hope if they meke another one, it has a better script and not so many
silly oversights.

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: john king [hoopajoop2000@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, 13 February 2002 18:38
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Academy award
>
>
> Who Cares! The Academy has already proved they're a
> bunch of ignorants when Judy Garland didn't win for "A
> Star Is Born." I say, I loved the first Ape Movie, and
> I'm glad they made a new one, and I hope they make
> another one! %#@!&* the academy!
> John

are we forgetting caesar?

-Sammo_of_Borg

>From: "ThyPentacle" <agnosticdragon@...>
>Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Fresh meat.
>Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:37:58 -0500
>
>Yep, I was in the Linda chat that day. I'm the guy that made those
>wallpapers of her on her site. As for my favorite Apes movie, that depends
>on the category. As far as story-lines go, the original POTA is much better
>than the new one IMHO. But, I prefer the character's in the new movie over
>the original. Mainly Ari and Lolo. The only original cast member that has a
>chance against those two is Zira. :o)
>
>
>ThyPentacle
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
> From: CheeseGOTAS@...
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 8:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Fresh meat.
>
>
> In a message dated 2/12/02 7:25:02 PM Central Standard Time,
> LordTZer0@... writes:
>
> << You may have seen him on some of the Ape chats.
> Linda's wasn't it? >>
>
> Yeah, I'm sure that's where I've seen it now. ;)
>
> Anyway, what's your favorite Apes movie new guy?
>
> -Joe
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>

_____

.htmlIn a message dated 2/13/02 12:57:15 AM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

The original POTA had pull over masks, too, and they went out of their way to give it an Oscar. I just think he didn't get the nomination either because of a backlash (POTA is seen as crass, "Lord of the Rings" and "Moulin Rouge" as risks) or because Baker has won so many. Who's seen "A Beautiful Mind"? Is the makeup that good? I don't go out of my way to see Ron Howard films, I find them pretty bland.

                                                             - - - Jeff



I saw "A Beautiful Mind" (I see damn near everything!), and they age Russell Crowe from twenty to sixty-eight or something.  His makeup is very good.  The movie was better-than-average Ron Howard, and something of a tear-jerker.

-- Rory<.html

--- In pota@y..., MTotsky@a... wrote:

> In the original Planet of the Apes novel, the Lawgiver's name was

"Haristas."

>
> Sounds like a name you would give to a big know-it-all, huh?
>
> Matt

Actually, 'Haristas' wasn't a "Lawgiver" (Boulle never uses this
'title'). Boulle's 'Haristas' was the Soror-version of our own
'Aristotle' (even the two names sound similar: Aristotle/Haristas).
Haristas was the ape from Soror's antiquity whose status as an
authority remained unquestioned amongst the orangutan faction, just as
Aristotle was considered by Medieval authorities to be the "master of
men who 'know'..." (Dante Alighieri refers to him by this epithet).
Just as Aristotle was wrong about the 'fact' that heavier objects fall
at a faster rate than do lighter objects (WRONG!), and Galileo proved
him wrong, so too was 'Haristas' wrong about various things... and
only the clever chimpanzees like Cornelius, Zira, and Helius (and the
unnamed chimps who work at Soror's space administration) have gotten
beyond the dogmatic 'faith' in Haristas' supposed wisdom.
-
As for the name of the "Lawgiver", well, this is never stated in any
of the films. However, it DOES seem that "Lawgiver" is a title that
more than one ape laid claim to (probably all of them orangutans).
Zaius, in PLANET, says that the Sacred Scrolls were written "twelve
hundred years ago" in 3955, which would put their authorship at circa
2755. But in BATTLE, the John Huston character--referred to as
"Lawgiver" by the little black girl at the end of the movie--tells the
story of Caesar in the year 2670, some 85 years earlier than the
writing of what eventually becomes the "bible" of the Apes.
Remember in ESCAPE, when Cornelius tells Hasslein, "As an
archaeologist, I had access to HISTORY SCROLLS THAT WERE KEPT HIDDEN
FROM THE MASSES..." (my emphasis)? There is no indication that
Cornelius knew of these 'history scrolls' BEFORE the events of PLANET.
I think that Cornelius--in between PLANET and BENEATH--agreed to keep
his discoveries in the Forbidden Zone a secret in order to ward off a
trial for heresy and, with Zaius' change-of-heart regarding him and
Zira (due to Ursus having seized power, threatening his own status),
to have a 'look' at the proof of Man's earlier status ("I have always
known about Man..." Zaius says). I think that EARLIER "scriptures"
were declared heretical, and all copies were destroyed... save the few
that the Zaius-types kept for their own purposes. Sometime after
PLANET but before BENEATH, Cornelius is given access to these earlier
"history scrolls"--scrolls which mention the Plague that kills off all
the dogs and cats, and an ape named ALDO, who says "No!" to a human.
Cornelius tells Hasslein that this is "fully documented in the secret
scrolls"; in the movie, it sounds as if Roddy says "sacred" (not
"secret"), and the DVD subtitler transcribes this word as "sacred",
but in the shooting script (buy it at SCRIPTCITY), the actual word can
be seen to be "secret". Besides, it doesn't make any sense that the
"Sacred Scrolls" (the official "scripture" in 3955) would "fully
document" an historical episode regarding humans who enslaved apes;
only the prior documents would mention this, and be deemed heretical
later on, when the powers that be re-write their own history, effacing
any mention of human intelligence, language, achievement, etc.
-
In 2670, a "good" Lawgiver (played by John Huston) teaches to an
integrated group of Ape and Human children.
By 2755, a "bad" Lawgiver (i.e. a human-hating one) has re-written the
history of the Simian peoples... and depicted the human race in the
worst of terms. Something momentous had to have happened between 2670
and 2755, in order to account for this change. Remember, that in
Galen's time (3085) it has become "official" doctrine that "Apes have
always ruled the world... always!"
In the mega-POTA novel I'm writing, the name of the "bad" Lawgiver is
going to be "Doswa" (which is the name--according to Effinger's
novelization--of the orangutan whose bust-statue is stolen by Galen
and Burke during their theft of the surgical book from Zaius'
collection in "The Surgeon" episode; it makes sense that Zaius (and
his descendants, including the Zaius in PLANET) would have a statue of
this sort of human-hating "Lawgiver" in his possession.
The name of the "good" Lawgiver (in my book) will be "Ornan", which is
referenced in "The Cure" episode; it is said that the last time a
terrible plague afflicted the area was in "the Ornan period". Who, I
wondered, was this 'Ornan' (if, indeed, it was a personal name)?
One of the reasons why I decided that "Ornan" would be a good name for
the John Huston-character has to do with the notion that if a plague
were to kill off a lot of humans and apes during the time when he's
preaching inter-species tolerance, the hard-core bigots among the ape
population might think that the plague was sent by God as a punishment
for their policy of "getting along" with Humans. Just as the
Israelites were supposed to be merciless towards the Canaanites during
Joshua ben Nun's conquest of the "promised land"--and were subjected
to 'divine punishments' (including plagues) sent from Jehovah whenever
they did not fully carry out their pogrom against the Canaanites--so
too might the Simian human-haters justify increasing their violence
against humans, if they perceive the "plague in the Ornan period" as a
divine punishment.
It's no coincidence that my choice of the "bad" Lawgiver's name,
"Doswa", sounds a lot like "Joshua", the mass-murderer of Old
Testament fame. It was fortunate for me that Effinger gave THIS name
to the orangutan-statue in Zaius' home, since Zaius would be the
descendant of some other ape (probably ALSO named "Zaius") from circa
2670...2755, who agreed with the notion that "human-tolerating" apes
were the cause of the plague that "God" sent as a punishment.
-
That's MY take on it, anyway. Feel free, Kassidy, to do your own thing
with your fan-fic.

Patrick Michael Tilton
EARTH-TIME 2-13-2002

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:

> You're probably thinking of Semos, the religious figure of

Burton's apes. None of the figures are given names except Haristas in
the Boulle book, the Lawgiver in the originals and Semos in the Burton
thing. They don't go into religion very much. It's basically a play on
Judeo-Christian beliefs using apes instead of people. Oh, and in the
TV show they believed in "gods", not God. And though they had the
small Lawgiver statue around, they never mentioned him.

> - - -

Jeff

Regarding the "gods" mentioned in the TV show, it isn't a certainty
that the entire Ape civilization shared the polytheistic belief system
that the fishing community in "Tomorrow's Tide" held. I don't see the
main Simian society worshipping a "pantheon" of deities, like the
Egyptian/Greek/Roman civilizations did; in BATTLE, the "Lawgiver"
(whom I've named--after "The Cure" reference--"Ornan") reads from a
"history scroll" which by 3955 is no longer known save by Zaius, and
he says, "In the beginning, God created Beast and Man, so that both
might live in friendship and share dominion over a world at peace; but
in the fullness of time, evil men betrayed God's trust..." etc. It
seems evident that this monotheistic religion (which Caesar said--to
MacDonald in CONQUEST--the apes would create) represents the
'mainstream' religion from the time of Caesar (1991-to-2018 and
following) until at least 2670. Something happens during the next 85
years to prompt another "Lawgiver" (whom I've named "Doswa", in
reference to Effinger's novelization of "The Surgeon") to re-write the
"sacred history" of the Apes, erasing any references to human
civilization/language/enslavement-of-apes/etc.
If some isolated communities (like the fishing village in "Tomorrow's
Tide" or the human tribe in "The Liberator") have their own
less-sophisticated polytheistic religions, that doesn't mean that the
entire Ape "world" shares those beliefs.
Just my two cents...

Patrick Michael Tilton
EARTH-TIME 2-13-2002

--- In pota@y..., "sand_hill_school" <sand_hill_school@y...> wrote:

> --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > Not just interesting but true - I have heard Burton comment on

this

> and of
> > Leo's comparison to Christ "Son Of David" - "Davidson".
> >
> > The spelling is Semos in novelisations and scripts, too.
> >
> > Who would have ever thought POTA 2001 had a degree of thought
> involved in
> > any of it?
> >
> > Michael
>
> %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
>
> Yeah, Michael. Kinda shows how deeply shallow it was.
>
> --Helen

I thought that the name "Leo" would be in reference to Jesus as being
the "Lion of the tribe of Judah". Jesus' first advent was as the
passover sacrificial Lamb... to be followed by the second advent as
the "Lion"...
You know what they say: "In like a Lamb, out like a Lion..."
Or is it the other way around?
Regardless, whatever symbolism they were trying to inject into
Burton's flick with these names, it all adds up to a whole lotta
nuthin goin' on. As far as I'm concerned, at any rate.

Patrick Michael Tilton
EARTH-TIME 2-13-2002

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Michael Whitty

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 6:29 AM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] I've been afraid to ask...

Oh boy,

 

I can't wait for Rory's comments!

 

So did you "perverts" like POTA 2001?

And if you did, could you please explain why?

 

Michael

 

-----Original Message-----
From: ThyPentacle [agnosticdragon@...]
Sent: Wednesday, 13 February 2002 17:48
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] I've been meaning to ask...

Not everybody hates the new ones. Many of us over on the yahoo potafanfic group think they're great. A few of us perverts are even smitten by their furry good looks and would love to find out just how wild monkey lovin feels. (Eeeew, did he just say that? YES HE DID! ;o)  Anyway, I've always liked the old POTA movies, BUT, I still think the new 'Chimpettes' are much better. (Even though they don't have hair/fur on their neck for some strange reason.)

 

ThyPentacle

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: veetus@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 1:03 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] I've been meaning to ask...

  Oh, look! I'm blue! I gotta ask, Thy...why do you like the "new chimp chicks"? Everybody else hates them.

 

                                                           - - - Jeff

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: ThyPentacle

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 6:41 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] I've been meaning to ask...

I'm mainly interested in the new 'chimp chicks' ;o)  but the main reason for a lack of a Zira section is very simple. No room. With all the pictures, wallpapers, screensavers, etc. that I have on the two websites I have on that server, I just don't have much room left. I'm using over 45 megabytes out of 50 as it is now. But I will try to make at least something Zira related available sometime in the future. Maybe a small picture section if I can find some good ones of Zira.

 

 

ThyPentacle

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 8:52 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] I've been meaning to ask...

       Hey Thy,

Why is it that on your site you don't have a section devoted to Zira?
As Kim Hunter's number one fan, I gotta ask.


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

In a message dated 2/3/02 10:17:04 AM Eastern Standard Time,
patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:


Of course, my above depiction of my "Hassleinian hyperdrive"
probably sounds like a similar load of "technobabble" to some of you
out there!
Who am I to complain about TNG, DS9, VOY, & now "Enterprise"?

> >
> >
>
> I've watched every episode of ENTERPRISE so far. I'm enjoying it.

As you well know, Patrick, the Icarus spacecraft is a highly
unlikely one to go at nearly the speed of light -- windows that look
out toward the front? -- and more likely a landing craft. It would
have to have some kind of warpfield around it to be traveling through
space as seen in the opening of PLANET. I'm assuming a warpfield
protects the craft from the debris it's going to be passing through,
and counteracts the increase in mass and length that would destroy the
human body?
How would you design a 'fast-as-light' spacecraft, Patrick? I once
saw a concept painting of a craft that had a funnel in front and back.
This spaceship would scoop up the matter it passed through and use it
as fuel for thrust, of somekind, that would be expelled out the
opposite funnel.
Whenever I dream of the film of Boulle's book that I'd like to see,
I imagine a craft of this kind for Professor Antelle's spaceship.
Maybe it wouldn't be appropriate but from the painting I saw it
certainly would make a spectacular visual impression as the matter
hitting the front funnel puts out a huge lightshow.
-- Rory

Hi, Rory. For the mega-POTA-saga novel I'm working on, I actually DID
invent a "Hassleinian hyperdrive" in order to explain not only the
chronological data given in the movies and TV show, but also to come
up with a plausible explanation for how the USA could send out
interstellar spaceships in the early 1970's (!). I've posted similar
stuff over on the other Yahoo POTA group ("Friends and Fugitives"),
but just for "gits and shiggles" I'll reiterate my overall description
of the Hasslein Drive here. Here goes...

In 1947, the USA recovers some crashed "flying discs" in New Mexico
(the Roswell incident, etc.), and a team of scientists including (and
perhaps even led by) Otto Hasslein is given the task of
"retro-engineering" the alien technology. A top-secret black-budget
agency is set up: the American Nearlight Stardrive Administration
(a.k.a. "ANSA"); the civilian, public NASA administration is
simultaneously funded (we know that the USA has both an "ANSA" and a
"NASA" in the POTA universe, since we see the "ANSA" patches on
Taylor's crew uniforms, and NASA is mentioned in ESCAPE by the
President).

What Hasslein (et al.) discover, is that the warp-propulsion systems
of the alien discs work like this:

1. An aft "lasing chamber", spherical in shape, consists of an array
of super-duper high-intensity lasers, all pointed towards a central
focal point. When these mega-lasers are triggered, the photon streams
converge on the focus, and their energy [E] is converted into
hyper-dense mass [m] via Einstein's famous equation of "energy-mass
equivalence": E = mc^2.

2. The hyper-dense mass is so much denser than neutronium that it is a
low-mass Black Hole, constantly on the verge of "evaporating" away due
to Hawking radiation (due to its low mass). The lasing energy imput
has to be maintained to keep the Black Hole existing at the focus of
the lasing chamber.

3. The Black Hole is created as a "Schwartzchild" type: a
point-singularity surrounded by a non-spinning, perfectly-spherical
Event Horizon. This Schwartzchild Black Hole must be contorted into
the warpfield in order to be useful, so...

4. An "impeller" injects high-spin particles into the Event Horizon of
this Black Hole, and the angular momentum of these spinning particles
is converted into rotatory movement: the point-singularity morphs into
a ring-shape, and the spherical Event Horizon becomes an Oblate
Spheroid (its polar diameter shrinks as its equatorial diameter
expands), becoming more and more "eccentric"/oblate. This "spinning"
of the Black Hole also lends it stability to offset the tendency to
evaporate due to Hawking radiation.

5. The "3-dimensional" spherical Black Hole is eventually deformed
topologically into a "2-dimensional" flat, circular disc, with its
mass determining its width (which must still be able to "fit" inside
the spherical lasing chamber); the ring-shaped singularity--now that
the Event Horizon is a 2-D disk--has become a Naked Singularity.

6. This disc of warped spacetime is oriented in such a way that a FUEL
INJECTOR can fire a particle beam at the "hole in the flat donut", the
"inter-singularity zone"... a sort of "portal" into "hyperspace". The
"fuel injector" faces aftward, firing its beam of high-speed particles
towards the center of the flat warp-disc. The other side of the lasing
chamber is open to space, behind the ship's aft section.

7. When the fuel hits the "sweet spot", that "point" becomes the
"cusp" of a 3-dimensional figure that I call a "cyclic cardioid". Look
up the word "cardioid" in any math/physics encyclopedia, and you'll
see what a cardioid looks like: if you "roll" one circle around
another of equal size, like a spirograph, you get a "heart-shaped"
figure that looks like a Valentine's Day 'heart' but with a rounded
(and not 'pointed') bottom, sorta like what the skin of an apple would
look like if you were to hollow it out. The cyclic cardioid--a
cardioid rotated along its 'axis-of-symmetry'--is almost spherical,
but with a curving conical indentation extending down to the
cusp-point.

8. This nearly-spherical, cyclic-cardioidal "bubble" which has its
origin at the cusp/lasing-focus, is the warpfield encapsulating the
ANSA ships (based on retro-engineered 'Roswellian' discs). Because
this warpfield is created from laser-light, it behaves as a photon
does: it instantaneously begins propagating at "lightspeed"... but,
whereas a photon has no mass, this warpfield has to "lug around" the
mass of the ship, the fuel, the cargo, the crew, etc. So, given that
the "photon-like" warpfield has mass, the velocity at which it
propagates is NOT the same as an ordinary photon through a vacuum
(i.e. 299,792,458 m/s), but rather is a velocity which is similar to
that of a photon traveling through a dense medium with an
"index-of-refraction" that is greater than 1 (a vacuum has an I-O-R
equal to 1, and nothing--theoretically--has an I-O-R less than 1).

9. This "index-of-refraction" effect accounts for the fact that it
takes Taylor's ship longer than 320 EARTH-TIME years to travel 320
lightyears. The "refraction factor" is such that it takes him from
1972 to 3978 (2006 years) to travel what an ordinary photon would only
require 320 years to do. In other words, the "index-of-refraction" of
Taylor's ship's warpfield is not 1, but 2006/320, or 6.26875.

10. Similarly, it takes Virdon's ship almost exactly 9 EARTH-TIME
years to travel to Alpha Centauri (4.34 lightyears away), giving his
ship's warpfield a "refraction factor" of 9/4.34, or 2.07373272. The
lower "refraction factor" for Virdon's ship is due to the fact that
there is less mass (ship/fuel/cargo/etc.) to lug around than in the
case of Taylor's mission. In my scenario, Virdon's ship doesn't leave
Earth in 1980--that's when it arrives at Alpha Centauri, having left
Earth in 1971 (about 5 months prior to the lift-off of Taylor's ship
from Cape Kennedy). Virdon's ship had to have left Earth before the
arrival (in 1973) of the "Ape-onauts" (Milo, Cornelius and Zira), who
became celebrities before their death on the derelict ship ("...the
voters love them..." says the President to Hasslein). So, since
neither Virdon nor Burke expected to encounter talking monkeys on a
future Earth, that means that they had to have left prior to the
events of ESCAPE.

11. This warpfield propagates like a "massive" photon, its
"lightspeed" less than the speed of an ordinary photon. However,
there's something about this that needs clarifying; when a 'virtual'
photon is 'created'/brought-into-existence, becoming a 'real' photon,
it instantaneously undergoes a quantum jump in velocity from
Zero-times-lightspeed [0c] to One-times-lightspeed [1c]; it doesn't
accelerate through all the intermediate velocities [i.e. between 0 and
1]... it automatically, BANG-ZOOM, begins propagating AT lightspeed
(which is 299,792,458 m/s in a pure vacuum).

12. The number 1 can be written another way... as [0^0]
"Zero-to-the-Zeroth-power". In my scenario, it is discovered that the
"warpfield" can be accelerated... but initially this acceleration
leads to an anomalous deceleration effect. Prior to 1973, Hasslein
concludes that adding power to the warpfield results in a lesser
working velocity of these ships, so that the "slowest" amount of
warpage yields the highest possible speed, which at "warp factor Zero"
would be equal to Lightspeed-divided-by-the-refraction-factor [c/"n"].
The "engaging" of the Hassleinian hyperdrive requires a certain amount
of fuel-injector imput, which prevents them from actually warping
along at Warp Factor Zero [WF:0]. The "lowest" possible warp factor
turns out to be WF: 0.000000003341... which translates to an actual
velocity of 0.99999993424c/"n". It is at a velocity of 0.99999993424
times c which yields a "Time Dilation Ratio" of about 1:2787 (which is
the same as 31:86400--in the opening scene of PLANET, Taylor's
EARTH-TIME clock clicks ahead through 3 full days over the course of
about 93 seconds, or 31 SHIP-TIME seconds per 1 EARTH-TIME day [there
being 86400 seconds in a day]).

13. As it becomes apparent, later on, the actual equation for the
warpfield is "x^x = y" [where "x" is in "warp factors" and "y" is in
lightspeed increments, so that "y1" = 1c, y2 = 2c, etc.]. If you graph
the equation x^x = y, you'll find something rather peculiar. Working
backward from 10 to 0 (in whole numbers), we find that:
Warp Factor [x] = [y]
10 = 10,000,000,000c
9 387,420,489c
8 16,777,216c
7 823,543c
6 46,656c
5 3,125c
4 256c
3 27c
2 4c
1 1c
0 1c

14. Between WF 1 and WF 0, in 1/10 increments, we find:
1.0 = 1.000 000 000c
0.9 0.909 532 576c
0.8 0.836 511 642c
0.7 0.779 055 912c
0.6 0.736 021 922c
0.5 0.707 106 781c
0.4 0.693 144 843c
0.3 0.696 845 301c
0.2 0.724 779 663c
0.1 0.794 328 234c
0.0 1.000 000 000c
In other words, "engaging" the warpdrive instantaneously propels you
to WF 0 [1c], and along an acceleration curve (what I refer to as the
"Hasslein Curve", referenced by Brent in BENEATH) which initially
yields slower-and-slower velocities [0.794c > 0.724c > 0.696c > 0.693c
and so forth], prior to the higher-and-higher velocities later on
[0.707c > 0.736c > 0.779c > 0.836c > 0.909c > 1.000c > 1.110c ... and
so forth]. Incidentally, the lowest point on this graph of the
Hasslein Curve is at x:0.367 879 441c. Take this "x" number and
"exponentialize" it [x^x] and you get 0.692 200 627c. The number
0.367879441... is the inverse of "e" ["Euler's number", the base of
natural logarithms: 2.718 281 828...] and, no, it's NOT a coincidence.
Had Hasslein known about the later-on higher-and-higher velocities
further along the acceleration curve, he would have had both Virdon's
and Taylor's ships accelerate faster than their minimal warp factors,
which would have yielded FASTER-THAN-LIGHT velocities. As it is, in
between WF 0 and WF 1, we have resultant velocities which are
SLOWER-THAN-LIGHT [< 1c], and as a result, Hasslein postulates that a
Time Dilation effect similar to the Einsteinian effect at "near-light
velocities" takes place. This is what Taylor means (in my scenario)
when he mentions "...Dr. Hasslein's theory of Time in a vehicle
traveling nearly the speed of light..." (which must be different,
somehow, from Einstein's theory, yet similar in some respect).

15. The smaller the Warp Factor, the closer to 1c you get:
WF [x] [y]
0.1 = 0.794 328 234c
0.01 = 0.954 992 586c
0.001 = 0.993 116 048c
0.0001 = 0.999 079 390c
0.00001 = 0.999 884 877c
0.000001 = 0.999 986 184c
0.0000001 = 0.999 998 388c
0.00000001 = 0.999 999 815c
0.000000001 = 0.999 999 979c
0.0000000001 = 0.999 999 997c

16. So, then, the velocity at which a warping ship travels is WFc/"n"
[where WF is the Warp Factor, c = 299,792,458 m/s, and "n" is the
"index-of-refraction" effect dictated by the MASS of the ship/fuel/
cargo/etc. translating to a DENSITY of the cyclic-cardioidal
microcosmic VOLUME sealed-off from the rest of the spacetime continuum
by the warpfield. If that WF is less-than 1, then Hassleinian Time
Dilation effects take place, necessitating the dual SHIP-TIME and
EARTH-TIME chronometers in the cockpits of all ANSA spaceships. Since
the Virdon and Taylor missions were sent out prior to the awareness of
the Hasslein Curve equation [x^x = y], it was thought that only
sub-light, "nearly the speed of light" velocities were attainable;
thus, they thought of this retro-engineered propulsion system as a
"near-light stardrive"... hence the "American Nearlight Stardrive
Administration": ANSA.

In my scenario, both Virdon's ship and Taylor's ship encounter Black
Holes (a former planet at Alpha Centauri in Virdon's case, and the
"hypernova remnant"/HNR out in the constellation Orion, 320 lightyears
away, in Taylor's case). In both cases, the ships are saved from
gravitational "spaghettification" by their encapsulating warpfields,
which are sent on an Earth-homing trajectory [Virdon has Jones
activate an "Automatic Homing Device"... and SOMEONE on Taylor's
vessel also activates a similar device] at a hyper-acceleration along
the Hasslein Curve; Virdon's ship ends up zipping 4.34 lightyears from
Alpha Centauri to Earth in mere seconds of SHIP-TIME, having
accelerated past the "Euler-inversion-point" at WF 0.367...c, up past
WF 9--millions of times the speed of light. So, too, does Taylor's
'mothership' (and its 3 'shuttlecraft': the 3 ships seen in PLANET,
BENEATH, and ESCAPE) zip back along an accelerated warp factor to
planet Earth... with one of the shuttles (the one seen in PLANET) for
some reason not registering the BACKWARD-THROUGH-TIME effect that the
others do (and as Virdon's does). Taylor's shuttle's EARTH-TIME clock
continues to click up to 11-25-3978, etc.; but the other two shuttles
(i.e. Brent/Skipper's BENEATH ship and the gull-winged-hatch ship that
Milo finds [ESCAPE]) register a "retro-temporal" effect, going
backwards through Time from 3978 to 3955, the same relative amount of
"retro-temporal" Time that Virdon's ship experiences (Virdon's ship
goes through a forward Time Warp [due to the Centaurian ex-planet
Black Hole's spacetime curvature] from 8-19-1980 to 7-14-3085... yet
then zips back in time from 7-14-3085 to 3-21-3085), 115
"retro-temporal days.

DISTANCE [LY] RETRO-TIME [days]
Orion-Star to Earth: 320.00 8479.???
Alpha Centauri to Earth: 4.34 115.???

The ratio of DISTANCE per RETRO-TIME is 320/4.34, which equals
8479/115, meaning that since Virdon's ship goes back-in-Time 115
EARTH-TIME days, then Taylor's 'mothership' goes back-in-Time 8479
EARTH-TIME days... just over 23 years, 2 months, and about 18 days.
Subtract this amount of time from the date Taylor sees on his
EARTH-TIME chronometer prior to the sinking of his shuttle
[11-25-3978], and you find that the ACTUAL date this ship landed was
sometime around July of 3955. The chronometric data from the
'mothership' computer was shunted to all the shuttles' computers...
except for Taylor's shuttle which, for reasons I won't divulge here
(sorry!), was "disconnected" to the mothership during the
back-to-planet-Earth homing voyage (yet still "inside" the
mothership's hyperdrive "warpfield").

I'm in the process of drawing up blueprints for all the ANSA ships we
see in the movies and TV show, as well as the unseen "mothership"
which holds the cargo/supplies/"head"/"mess-hall"/etc. as well as 3
ANSA planet-lander shuttles. If I ever get enough free time, perhaps
I'll find a way to finish 'em, make copies, and sell 'em to interested
fans who surf this 'site.

Well, my ass is getting sore. Time to sign off for now...

Patrick Michael Tilton
EARTH-TIME 2-13-2002

In a message dated 2/12/02 11:41:13 PM Central Standard Time,
veetus@... writes:

<< b) I have no illusions that anyone but "Lord of the Rings" will win for
makeup because it IS a popularity contest. >>

More like Poopularity. The Lord of the Rings make up stunk.

-Joe

That is right too - everything you said (and most of all "a whole lot a
nothin'....)

And what Helen said...

Michael

> > Yeah, Michael. Kinda shows how deeply shallow it was.
> >
> > --Helen
>
> I thought that the name "Leo" would be in reference to Jesus as being
> the "Lion of the tribe of Judah". Jesus' first advent was as the
> passover sacrificial Lamb... to be followed by the second advent as
> the "Lion"...
> You know what they say: "In like a Lamb, out like a Lion..."
> Or is it the other way around?
> Regardless, whatever symbolism they were trying to inject into
> Burton's flick with these names, it all adds up to a whole lotta
> nuthin goin' on. As far as I'm concerned, at any rate.
>
> Patrick Michael Tilton
> EARTH-TIME 2-13-2002
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Now have 12 beers and say that again.

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@...]
> Sent: Thursday, 14 February 2002 5:25
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Hassleinian Hyperdrive
>
>
> In a message dated 2/3/02 10:17:04 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
>
> Of course, my above depiction of my "Hassleinian hyperdrive"
> probably sounds like a similar load of "technobabble" to some of you
> out there!
> Who am I to complain about TNG, DS9, VOY, & now "Enterprise"?
> > >
> > >
> >
> > I've watched every episode of ENTERPRISE so far. I'm enjoying it.
> As you well know, Patrick, the Icarus spacecraft is a highly
> unlikely one to go at nearly the speed of light -- windows that look
> out toward the front? -- and more likely a landing craft. It would
> have to have some kind of warpfield around it to be traveling through
> space as seen in the opening of PLANET. I'm assuming a warpfield
> protects the craft from the debris it's going to be passing through,
> and counteracts the increase in mass and length that would destroy the
> human body?
> How would you design a 'fast-as-light' spacecraft, Patrick? I once
> saw a concept painting of a craft that had a funnel in front and back.
> This spaceship would scoop up the matter it passed through and use it
> as fuel for thrust, of somekind, that would be expelled out the
> opposite funnel.
> Whenever I dream of the film of Boulle's book that I'd like to see,
> I imagine a craft of this kind for Professor Antelle's spaceship.
> Maybe it wouldn't be appropriate but from the painting I saw it
> certainly would make a spectacular visual impression as the matter
> hitting the front funnel puts out a huge lightshow.
> -- Rory
>
> Hi, Rory. For the mega-POTA-saga novel I'm working on, I actually DID
> invent a "Hassleinian hyperdrive" in order to explain not only the
> chronological data given in the movies and TV show, but also to come
> up with a plausible explanation for how the USA could send out
> interstellar spaceships in the early 1970's (!). I've posted similar
> stuff over on the other Yahoo POTA group ("Friends and Fugitives"),
> but just for "gits and shiggles" I'll reiterate my overall description
> of the Hasslein Drive here. Here goes...
>
> In 1947, the USA recovers some crashed "flying discs" in New Mexico
> (the Roswell incident, etc.), and a team of scientists including (and
> perhaps even led by) Otto Hasslein is given the task of
> "retro-engineering" the alien technology. A top-secret black-budget
> agency is set up: the American Nearlight Stardrive Administration
> (a.k.a. "ANSA"); the civilian, public NASA administration is
> simultaneously funded (we know that the USA has both an "ANSA" and a
> "NASA" in the POTA universe, since we see the "ANSA" patches on
> Taylor's crew uniforms, and NASA is mentioned in ESCAPE by the
> President).
>
> What Hasslein (et al.) discover, is that the warp-propulsion systems
> of the alien discs work like this:
>
> 1. An aft "lasing chamber", spherical in shape, consists of an array
> of super-duper high-intensity lasers, all pointed towards a central
> focal point. When these mega-lasers are triggered, the photon streams
> converge on the focus, and their energy [E] is converted into
> hyper-dense mass [m] via Einstein's famous equation of "energy-mass
> equivalence": E = mc^2.
>
> 2. The hyper-dense mass is so much denser than neutronium that it is a
> low-mass Black Hole, constantly on the verge of "evaporating" away due
> to Hawking radiation (due to its low mass). The lasing energy imput
> has to be maintained to keep the Black Hole existing at the focus of
> the lasing chamber.
>
> 3. The Black Hole is created as a "Schwartzchild" type: a
> point-singularity surrounded by a non-spinning, perfectly-spherical
> Event Horizon. This Schwartzchild Black Hole must be contorted into
> the warpfield in order to be useful, so...
>
> 4. An "impeller" injects high-spin particles into the Event Horizon of
> this Black Hole, and the angular momentum of these spinning particles
> is converted into rotatory movement: the point-singularity morphs into
> a ring-shape, and the spherical Event Horizon becomes an Oblate
> Spheroid (its polar diameter shrinks as its equatorial diameter
> expands), becoming more and more "eccentric"/oblate. This "spinning"
> of the Black Hole also lends it stability to offset the tendency to
> evaporate due to Hawking radiation.
>
> 5. The "3-dimensional" spherical Black Hole is eventually deformed
> topologically into a "2-dimensional" flat, circular disc, with its
> mass determining its width (which must still be able to "fit" inside
> the spherical lasing chamber); the ring-shaped singularity--now that
> the Event Horizon is a 2-D disk--has become a Naked Singularity.
>
> 6. This disc of warped spacetime is oriented in such a way that a FUEL
> INJECTOR can fire a particle beam at the "hole in the flat donut", the
> "inter-singularity zone"... a sort of "portal" into "hyperspace". The
> "fuel injector" faces aftward, firing its beam of high-speed particles
> towards the center of the flat warp-disc. The other side of the lasing
> chamber is open to space, behind the ship's aft section.
>
> 7. When the fuel hits the "sweet spot", that "point" becomes the
> "cusp" of a 3-dimensional figure that I call a "cyclic cardioid". Look
> up the word "cardioid" in any math/physics encyclopedia, and you'll
> see what a cardioid looks like: if you "roll" one circle around
> another of equal size, like a spirograph, you get a "heart-shaped"
> figure that looks like a Valentine's Day 'heart' but with a rounded
> (and not 'pointed') bottom, sorta like what the skin of an apple would
> look like if you were to hollow it out. The cyclic cardioid--a
> cardioid rotated along its 'axis-of-symmetry'--is almost spherical,
> but with a curving conical indentation extending down to the
> cusp-point.
>
> 8. This nearly-spherical, cyclic-cardioidal "bubble" which has its
> origin at the cusp/lasing-focus, is the warpfield encapsulating the
> ANSA ships (based on retro-engineered 'Roswellian' discs). Because
> this warpfield is created from laser-light, it behaves as a photon
> does: it instantaneously begins propagating at "lightspeed"... but,
> whereas a photon has no mass, this warpfield has to "lug around" the
> mass of the ship, the fuel, the cargo, the crew, etc. So, given that
> the "photon-like" warpfield has mass, the velocity at which it
> propagates is NOT the same as an ordinary photon through a vacuum
> (i.e. 299,792,458 m/s), but rather is a velocity which is similar to
> that of a photon traveling through a dense medium with an
> "index-of-refraction" that is greater than 1 (a vacuum has an I-O-R
> equal to 1, and nothing--theoretically--has an I-O-R less than 1).
>
> 9. This "index-of-refraction" effect accounts for the fact that it
> takes Taylor's ship longer than 320 EARTH-TIME years to travel 320
> lightyears. The "refraction factor" is such that it takes him from
> 1972 to 3978 (2006 years) to travel what an ordinary photon would only
> require 320 years to do. In other words, the "index-of-refraction" of
> Taylor's ship's warpfield is not 1, but 2006/320, or 6.26875.
>
> 10. Similarly, it takes Virdon's ship almost exactly 9 EARTH-TIME
> years to travel to Alpha Centauri (4.34 lightyears away), giving his
> ship's warpfield a "refraction factor" of 9/4.34, or 2.07373272. The
> lower "refraction factor" for Virdon's ship is due to the fact that
> there is less mass (ship/fuel/cargo/etc.) to lug around than in the
> case of Taylor's mission. In my scenario, Virdon's ship doesn't leave
> Earth in 1980--that's when it arrives at Alpha Centauri, having left
> Earth in 1971 (about 5 months prior to the lift-off of Taylor's ship
> from Cape Kennedy). Virdon's ship had to have left Earth before the
> arrival (in 1973) of the "Ape-onauts" (Milo, Cornelius and Zira), who
> became celebrities before their death on the derelict ship ("...the
> voters love them..." says the President to Hasslein). So, since
> neither Virdon nor Burke expected to encounter talking monkeys on a
> future Earth, that means that they had to have left prior to the
> events of ESCAPE.
>
> 11. This warpfield propagates like a "massive" photon, its
> "lightspeed" less than the speed of an ordinary photon. However,
> there's something about this that needs clarifying; when a 'virtual'
> photon is 'created'/brought-into-existence, becoming a 'real' photon,
> it instantaneously undergoes a quantum jump in velocity from
> Zero-times-lightspeed [0c] to One-times-lightspeed [1c]; it doesn't
> accelerate through all the intermediate velocities [i.e. between 0 and
> 1]... it automatically, BANG-ZOOM, begins propagating AT lightspeed
> (which is 299,792,458 m/s in a pure vacuum).
>
> 12. The number 1 can be written another way... as [0^0]
> "Zero-to-the-Zeroth-power". In my scenario, it is discovered that the
> "warpfield" can be accelerated... but initially this acceleration
> leads to an anomalous deceleration effect. Prior to 1973, Hasslein
> concludes that adding power to the warpfield results in a lesser
> working velocity of these ships, so that the "slowest" amount of
> warpage yields the highest possible speed, which at "warp factor Zero"
> would be equal to Lightspeed-divided-by-the-refraction-factor [c/"n"].
> The "engaging" of the Hassleinian hyperdrive requires a certain amount
> of fuel-injector imput, which prevents them from actually warping
> along at Warp Factor Zero [WF:0]. The "lowest" possible warp factor
> turns out to be WF: 0.000000003341... which translates to an actual
> velocity of 0.99999993424c/"n". It is at a velocity of 0.99999993424
> times c which yields a "Time Dilation Ratio" of about 1:2787 (which is
> the same as 31:86400--in the opening scene of PLANET, Taylor's
> EARTH-TIME clock clicks ahead through 3 full days over the course of
> about 93 seconds, or 31 SHIP-TIME seconds per 1 EARTH-TIME day [there
> being 86400 seconds in a day]).
>
> 13. As it becomes apparent, later on, the actual equation for the
> warpfield is "x^x = y" [where "x" is in "warp factors" and "y" is in
> lightspeed increments, so that "y1" = 1c, y2 = 2c, etc.]. If you graph
> the equation x^x = y, you'll find something rather peculiar. Working
> backward from 10 to 0 (in whole numbers), we find that:
> Warp Factor [x] = [y]
> 10 = 10,000,000,000c
> 9 387,420,489c
> 8 16,777,216c
> 7 823,543c
> 6 46,656c
> 5 3,125c
> 4 256c
> 3 27c
> 2 4c
> 1 1c
> 0 1c
>
> 14. Between WF 1 and WF 0, in 1/10 increments, we find:
> 1.0 = 1.000 000 000c
> 0.9 0.909 532 576c
> 0.8 0.836 511 642c
> 0.7 0.779 055 912c
> 0.6 0.736 021 922c
> 0.5 0.707 106 781c
> 0.4 0.693 144 843c
> 0.3 0.696 845 301c
> 0.2 0.724 779 663c
> 0.1 0.794 328 234c
> 0.0 1.000 000 000c
> In other words, "engaging" the warpdrive instantaneously propels you
> to WF 0 [1c], and along an acceleration curve (what I refer to as the
> "Hasslein Curve", referenced by Brent in BENEATH) which initially
> yields slower-and-slower velocities [0.794c > 0.724c > 0.696c > 0.693c
> and so forth], prior to the higher-and-higher velocities later on
> [0.707c > 0.736c > 0.779c > 0.836c > 0.909c > 1.000c > 1.110c ... and
> so forth]. Incidentally, the lowest point on this graph of the
> Hasslein Curve is at x:0.367 879 441c. Take this "x" number and
> "exponentialize" it [x^x] and you get 0.692 200 627c. The number
> 0.367879441... is the inverse of "e" ["Euler's number", the base of
> natural logarithms: 2.718 281 828...] and, no, it's NOT a coincidence.
> Had Hasslein known about the later-on higher-and-higher velocities
> further along the acceleration curve, he would have had both Virdon's
> and Taylor's ships accelerate faster than their minimal warp factors,
> which would have yielded FASTER-THAN-LIGHT velocities. As it is, in
> between WF 0 and WF 1, we have resultant velocities which are
> SLOWER-THAN-LIGHT [< 1c], and as a result, Hasslein postulates that a
> Time Dilation effect similar to the Einsteinian effect at "near-light
> velocities" takes place. This is what Taylor means (in my scenario)
> when he mentions "...Dr. Hasslein's theory of Time in a vehicle
> traveling nearly the speed of light..." (which must be different,
> somehow, from Einstein's theory, yet similar in some respect).
>
> 15. The smaller the Warp Factor, the closer to 1c you get:
> WF [x] [y]
> 0.1 = 0.794 328 234c
> 0.01 = 0.954 992 586c
> 0.001 = 0.993 116 048c
> 0.0001 = 0.999 079 390c
> 0.00001 = 0.999 884 877c
> 0.000001 = 0.999 986 184c
> 0.0000001 = 0.999 998 388c
> 0.00000001 = 0.999 999 815c
> 0.000000001 = 0.999 999 979c
> 0.0000000001 = 0.999 999 997c
>
> 16. So, then, the velocity at which a warping ship travels is WFc/"n"
> [where WF is the Warp Factor, c = 299,792,458 m/s, and "n" is the
> "index-of-refraction" effect dictated by the MASS of the ship/fuel/
> cargo/etc. translating to a DENSITY of the cyclic-cardioidal
> microcosmic VOLUME sealed-off from the rest of the spacetime continuum
> by the warpfield. If that WF is less-than 1, then Hassleinian Time
> Dilation effects take place, necessitating the dual SHIP-TIME and
> EARTH-TIME chronometers in the cockpits of all ANSA spaceships. Since
> the Virdon and Taylor missions were sent out prior to the awareness of
> the Hasslein Curve equation [x^x = y], it was thought that only
> sub-light, "nearly the speed of light" velocities were attainable;
> thus, they thought of this retro-engineered propulsion system as a
> "near-light stardrive"... hence the "American Nearlight Stardrive
> Administration": ANSA.
>
> In my scenario, both Virdon's ship and Taylor's ship encounter Black
> Holes (a former planet at Alpha Centauri in Virdon's case, and the
> "hypernova remnant"/HNR out in the constellation Orion, 320 lightyears
> away, in Taylor's case). In both cases, the ships are saved from
> gravitational "spaghettification" by their encapsulating warpfields,
> which are sent on an Earth-homing trajectory [Virdon has Jones
> activate an "Automatic Homing Device"... and SOMEONE on Taylor's
> vessel also activates a similar device] at a hyper-acceleration along
> the Hasslein Curve; Virdon's ship ends up zipping 4.34 lightyears from
> Alpha Centauri to Earth in mere seconds of SHIP-TIME, having
> accelerated past the "Euler-inversion-point" at WF 0.367...c, up past
> WF 9--millions of times the speed of light. So, too, does Taylor's
> 'mothership' (and its 3 'shuttlecraft': the 3 ships seen in PLANET,
> BENEATH, and ESCAPE) zip back along an accelerated warp factor to
> planet Earth... with one of the shuttles (the one seen in PLANET) for
> some reason not registering the BACKWARD-THROUGH-TIME effect that the
> others do (and as Virdon's does). Taylor's shuttle's EARTH-TIME clock
> continues to click up to 11-25-3978, etc.; but the other two shuttles
> (i.e. Brent/Skipper's BENEATH ship and the gull-winged-hatch ship that
> Milo finds [ESCAPE]) register a "retro-temporal" effect, going
> backwards through Time from 3978 to 3955, the same relative amount of
> "retro-temporal" Time that Virdon's ship experiences (Virdon's ship
> goes through a forward Time Warp [due to the Centaurian ex-planet
> Black Hole's spacetime curvature] from 8-19-1980 to 7-14-3085... yet
> then zips back in time from 7-14-3085 to 3-21-3085), 115
> "retro-temporal days.
>
> DISTANCE [LY] RETRO-TIME [days]
> Orion-Star to Earth: 320.00 8479.???
> Alpha Centauri to Earth: 4.34 115.???
>
> The ratio of DISTANCE per RETRO-TIME is 320/4.34, which equals
> 8479/115, meaning that since Virdon's ship goes back-in-Time 115
> EARTH-TIME days, then Taylor's 'mothership' goes back-in-Time 8479
> EARTH-TIME days... just over 23 years, 2 months, and about 18 days.
> Subtract this amount of time from the date Taylor sees on his
> EARTH-TIME chronometer prior to the sinking of his shuttle
> [11-25-3978], and you find that the ACTUAL date this ship landed was
> sometime around July of 3955. The chronometric data from the
> 'mothership' computer was shunted to all the shuttles' computers...
> except for Taylor's shuttle which, for reasons I won't divulge here
> (sorry!), was "disconnected" to the mothership during the
> back-to-planet-Earth homing voyage (yet still "inside" the
> mothership's hyperdrive "warpfield").
>
> I'm in the process of drawing up blueprints for all the ANSA ships we
> see in the movies and TV show, as well as the unseen "mothership"
> which holds the cargo/supplies/"head"/"mess-hall"/etc. as well as 3
> ANSA planet-lander shuttles. If I ever get enough free time, perhaps
> I'll find a way to finish 'em, make copies, and sell 'em to interested
> fans who surf this 'site.
>
> Well, my ass is getting sore. Time to sign off for now...
>
> Patrick Michael Tilton
> EARTH-TIME 2-13-2002
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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Well I hope if they meke another one, it has a better script and not so many
silly oversights.

There's certainly plenty of room for improvement, so it can only get better.
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.htmlYes, we liked the new movie. I don't know why everyone else liked it, but me and another guy named ViktorM liked it simply because of the talkin mon..., I mean, apes. ;o)  There's really little else to like about it besides them IMHO.


Yeah, nothin' beats talkin' monkeys. (in his best David Letterman goon voice)  But LIKE is about the strongest word I can use about it.  I'm still going to re-edit it and chop out all the stuff I Don't like.  Heston's scene for starters...then Roth and Duncan brothers in arms scenes and all of Giamatti's zingers!  That should make the thing flow like crap through a goose!
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> > Yeah, Michael.  Kinda shows how deeply shallow it was.
> >
> > --Helen

I think we should call Helen, Helena . . . for no good reason at all.

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