----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 10:01 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Timeline/s


> That's fine. I am undecided and I see merit in both choices. But I
refuse
> to believe there is a definitive answer. Nor is it a question of one's
> intelligence. Both have pros and cons so it is only about what you
choose.
>
> Michael
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Sammo Law [sammo_of_borg@...]
> > Sent: Saturday, 16 February 2002 11:36
> > To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Lawgiver's name
> >
> >
> > virgil had an apparent knowledge of the theory of time travel.
> > though that
> > may not be sufficient enough to prove that history was preserved.
> > still, i
> > like the idea of 2 timelines anyway
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Brian

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 8:55 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Zero Degrees, ain't it?

Make-up artist Brian Penikas did Kevin Bacon's make-up in "Murder in the First" back in 1993/94.
I think that's Zero degrees, ain't it?

Oh, but we're talking about Kim Hunter!
Make-up artist Brian Penikas did up the APEMANIA bunch (as well as himself) and escorted Kim Hunter into the Academy Theatre and to her seat for the 30th anniversay party in 1998.
I think that Zero degrees, ain't it?

Jeff Krueger was there, weren't yah Jeff?

Cheers,

Brian Penikas

james611102 wrote:

Kim Hunter was in Planet of the Apes with Roddy McDowall who was in
The Big Picture with Kevin Bacon. That's 2 degrees. Top that.

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<.html

----- Original Message -----
From: <LordTZer0@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 10:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Old Dracula!


> Kim Hunter was in Planet of the Apes with Roddy McDowall who was in
> The Big Picture with Kevin Bacon. That's 2 degrees. Top that.
>
> Okay, Kevin Bacon was in AFI's 100 Years 100 Stars which no doubt showed a
> clip from Streetcar with Kim Hunter. 1 degree! Also Shirley Temple was
in
> it, and she attended Kim's 1st wedding. It was also the 1st wedding
Shirley
> ever attended.
>
> Also Helena Bonham-Carter was in Novacain with . . . Kevin Bacon.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 2:16 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Zero Degrees, ain't it?

Would it be okay for me to include it on my DVD set. Hey, it's great advertisement for Apemania.com

I wish you would.  It didn't air here.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

>From: "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...>
>Subject: Timeline/s
>That's fine. I am undecided and I see merit in both choices. But I refuse
>to believe there is a definitive answer. Nor is it a question of one's
>intelligence. Both have pros and cons so it is only about what you choose.

>From: "Alexander Ruiz" <prophecysite@...>
>Subject: [OT] DVD blanks just got cheaper
>It looks as though my DVD set is going to offered a lot cheaper after all.
>http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2002787534
>100 DVD blanks for $339.00?
>That's about $3.50 for each disk.
>It's just a matter of time.
>God, I love the internet! :o)

----- Original Message -----

From: Rich Handley

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 9:54 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Digest Number 910

>From: "Alexander Ruiz" <prophecysite@...>
>Subject: [OT]  DVD blanks just got cheaper
>It looks as though my DVD set is going to offered a lot cheaper after all.
>http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2002787534
>100 DVD blanks for $339.00?
>That's about $3.50 for each disk.
>It's just a matter of time.
>God, I love the internet! :o)

Me, too -- count me in, if you don't mind.  :)
Thanks!





Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

> Surprisingly, you can get from Kim Hunter to Kevin Bacon in only

> of separation!
>
> Ready?
>
> Here goes...
>
> Kim Hunter starred in the soap opera "As The World Turns," which

> starred Martin Sheen.
> Martin Sheen starred in "JFK" with... anyone? Bueller?... that's

> Kevin Bacon!
>
> Surprising, eh? :)

----- Original Message -----

From: james611102

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 10:49 AM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Battle DVD

Just 2 quick questions. Will this be the uncut version of Battle with
the Alpha-Omega bomb scenes that was released on laser disc in Japan?
If so will it have the Japanese subtitles?



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

>From: "james611102" <Hardguy718@...>
>Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Lawgiver's name
>Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 04:09:14 -0000
>
> > still, i
> > like the idea of 2 timelines anyway
>
>Hey if it makes you happy, great. Just don't put down others that
>don't see it the same way like that other guy did.
>

>From: "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...>
>Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Timeline/s
>Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 17:01:29 +1100
>
>That's fine. I am undecided and I see merit in both choices. But I refuse
>to believe there is a definitive answer. Nor is it a question of one's
>intelligence. Both have pros and cons so it is only about what you choose.
>
>Michael
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Sammo Law [sammo_of_borg@...]
> > Sent: Saturday, 16 February 2002 11:36
> > To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Lawgiver's name
> >
> >
> > virgil had an apparent knowledge of the theory of time travel.
> > though that
> > may not be sufficient enough to prove that history was preserved.
> > still, i
> > like the idea of 2 timelines anyway
>

>From: "Alexander Ruiz" <prophecysite@...>
>Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Battle DVD
>Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 11:45:29 -0500
>
>Yes it is.
>The Japanese Laser Disc was the only release on the Battle UNcut scenes
>(that I know of, anyway), Alpha-Omega Scenes, Extended Chase of Aldo and
>the Teacher, Extended Tree Conflict between Aldo and Caesar and about 6 or
>7 other short scenes. Total time on UNcut is about 10 minutes of extra
>footage in all.
>
>The Japanese Laser Disc is in Widescreen Format and subtitles below the
>widescreen (below in the black bar area).
>But I believe I can get rid of the subtitles with my new DVD editor
>program.
>
>I'll keep you posted on that.
>
>Best.
>Al
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: james611102
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 10:49 AM
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Battle DVD
>
>
> Just 2 quick questions. Will this be the uncut version of Battle with
> the Alpha-Omega bomb scenes that was released on laser disc in Japan?
> If so will it have the Japanese subtitles?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>

>From: "Alexander Ruiz" <prophecysite@...>
>Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Zero Degrees, ain't it?
>Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 00:40:49 -0500
>
>Hey Brian.
>I was looking through my POTA Tapes and I came across your appearance on
>the Donnie and Marie Show.
>Would it be okay for me to include it on my DVD set. Hey, it's great
>advertisement for Apemania.com
>
>Let me know.
>
>Best.
>Al
>
>
>P.S. I would include the Chambers Birthday party you did, but that's
>Scott's baby.
>But it would have been nice too.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Brian
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 11:55 PM
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Zero Degrees, ain't it?
>
>
> Make-up artist Brian Penikas did Kevin Bacon's make-up in "Murder in the
>First" back in 1993/94.
> I think that's Zero degrees, ain't it?
> Oh, but we're talking about Kim Hunter!
> Make-up artist Brian Penikas did up the APEMANIA bunch (as well as
>himself) and escorted Kim Hunter into the Academy Theatre and to her seat
>for the 30th anniversay party in 1998.
> I think that Zero degrees, ain't it?
>
> Jeff Krueger was there, weren't yah Jeff?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Brian Penikas
>
> james611102 wrote:
>
> Kim Hunter was in Planet of the Apes with Roddy McDowall who was in
> The Big Picture with Kevin Bacon. That's 2 degrees. Top that.
> ------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Sammo Law

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 2:21 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Battle DVD

is the extended version of "Battle" available in the US for dvd?  if so,
does anyone know if it will play on an XBOX with a dvd adapter?  thanks


>From: "Alexander Ruiz" <prophecysite@...>
>Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Battle DVD
>Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 11:45:29 -0500
>
>Yes it is.
>The Japanese Laser Disc was the only release on the Battle UNcut scenes
>(that I know of, anyway), Alpha-Omega Scenes, Extended Chase of Aldo and
>the Teacher, Extended Tree Conflict between Aldo and Caesar and about 6 or
>7 other short scenes. Total time on UNcut is about 10 minutes of extra
>footage in all.
>
>The Japanese Laser Disc is in Widescreen Format and subtitles below the
>widescreen (below in the black bar area).
>But I believe I can get rid of the subtitles with my new DVD editor
>program.
>
>I'll keep you posted on that.
>
>Best.
>Al
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: james611102
>   To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 10:49 AM
>   Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Battle DVD
>
>
>   Just 2 quick questions. Will this be the uncut version of Battle with
>   the Alpha-Omega bomb scenes that was released on laser disc in Japan?
>   If so will it have the Japanese subtitles?
>
>
>         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>              
>
>
>
>
>   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>




_____Get

----- Original Message -----

From: Sammo Law

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 2:21 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Battle DVD

is the extended version of "Battle" available in the US for dvd?  if so,
does anyone know if it will play on an XBOX with a dvd adapter?  thanks


>From: "Alexander Ruiz" <prophecysite@...>
>Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Battle DVD
>Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 11:45:29 -0500
>
>Yes it is.
>The Japanese Laser Disc was the only release on the Battle UNcut scenes
>(that I know of, anyway), Alpha-Omega Scenes, Extended Chase of Aldo and
>the Teacher, Extended Tree Conflict between Aldo and Caesar and about 6 or
>7 other short scenes. Total time on UNcut is about 10 minutes of extra
>footage in all.
>
>The Japanese Laser Disc is in Widescreen Format and subtitles below the
>widescreen (below in the black bar area).
>But I believe I can get rid of the subtitles with my new DVD editor
>program.
>
>I'll keep you posted on that.
>
>Best.
>Al
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: james611102
>   To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 10:49 AM
>   Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Battle DVD
>
>
>   Just 2 quick questions. Will this be the uncut version of Battle with
>   the Alpha-Omega bomb scenes that was released on laser disc in Japan?
>   If so will it have the Japanese subtitles?
>
>
>         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>              
>
>
>
>
>   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>




_____Get

> > Martin Sheen wasn't in JFK, and if you go though TV shows the

> > string has to remain in TV shows.
> > I still think that Kim to Roddy who was in "She's Having a Baby"

> > Bacon is the quickest string.
>
> That's funny...I don't see Roddy in that one even as a cameo.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: veetus@... [veetus@...]
> Sent: Saturday, 16 February 2002 17:49

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 10:41 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Digest Number 910

  

Martin Sheen wasn't in JFK, and if you go though TV shows the whole
string has to remain in TV shows.
I still think that Kim to Roddy who was in "She's Having a Baby" with
Bacon is the quickest string.

That's funny...I don't see Roddy in that one even as a cameo.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 6:05 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Battle DVD

In a message dated 2/16/02 11:46:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, prophecysite@... writes:

The Japanese Laser Disc is in Widescreen Format and subtitles below the widescreen (below in the black bar area).

But I believe I can get rid of the subtitles with my new DVD editor program.

I'll keep you posted on that.

Best.
Al

Believe it or not, I'll probably want a couple of these.  I hope it comes out good.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

>From: "Brian C. Madsen" <BCMadsen@...>
>Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Differences in the two Behind DVD's?
>Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 12:08:23 -0800
>
>I finally got around to purchasing the collector's edition of Behind the
>POTA.
>(It's been on my list of things to do forever. So much to do, so little
>time.)
>
>In addition to extras on the newer release, the feature presentation is
>seven
>minutes longer. I watched it, but couldn't tell where the extra seven
>minutes
>were.
>
>Does anyone here have a scene-by-scene breakdown of what was changed
>between the boxed-set version of the DVD and the collector's edition? I'd
>be very interested to know what's new that I've overlooked.
>
>Thanks.
>
>--
>
>Brian C. Madsen
>BCMadsen@...
>

>From: CheeseGOTAS@...
>Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Lawgiver's name
>Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 18:33:04 EST
>
>In a message dated 2/15/02 3:13:35 PM Central Standard Time,
>sammo_of_borg@... writes:
>
><< now, i know it was not part of the real story, but in space balls, some
>apes
> on horseback find the "statue of liberty" >>
>
>You mean the Mega Maid.
>
>-Joe

> I'm that 'other guy' and I couldn't help myself. I was very upset.
>
> -- Rory

> how about we retire this Kevin Bacon stuff?
>
> -- Rory

>From: Haristas@...
>Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Medicom Planet of the Apes
>Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 20:18:06 EST
>
>In a message dated 2/16/02 7:46:20 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>sammo_of_borg@... writes:
>
>
> > does anyone think that i should open my action figures? i dont want to
>ruin
> >
> > their value but im really tempted to open them (i only have 1 right now
>but
> >
> > im gettin more).
> >
> > -Sammo_of_Borg
> >
> >
> >
>
>I opened all of mine -- I'm not likely to ever sell them, so what the hell.
>Besides, you gotta set up that Lawgiver for morning prayers.
>
>-- Rory

>From: "james611102" <Hardguy718@...>
>Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Lawgiver's name
>Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 01:23:58 -0000
>
> > I'm that 'other guy' and I couldn't help myself. I was very upset.
> >
> > -- Rory
>
>There are more important things in this life to get upset about Rory
>than whether there were one or two timelines in the Apes films.
>

>No problem Rich.

>Martin Sheen wasn't in JFK, and if you go though TV shows
>the whole string has to remain in TV shows.

>That's all well and groovy except for one thing. Martin Sheen wasn't in JFK.

>Actually, he was -- he was the narrator.

> did anyone see where julian's shirt came up slightly revealing

> now that upsets me

> where can u get this new behind the pota online?
>

----- Original Message -----

From: MTotsky@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 11:38 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Battle DVD

Hey Al,

How about putting the John Chambers 75th B-Day party on DVD? That would be
pretty neat to have. It's such a touching tribute and cool that Roddy, Rick
Baker and those wacky Ape Mania guys showed up for it (among others).

Matt


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

----- Original Message -----

From: MTotsky@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 11:40 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Differences in the two Behind DVD's?

In a message dated 2/16/02 8:16:12 PM, Haristas@... writes:

<< where can u get this new behind the pota online? >>

My local Blockbuster had used copies on sale for about $12.

Matt


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
Patrick - - -
The apes refer to "gods" throughout the TV show, not just in
"Tomorrow's Tide". Probably a way to sugar coat it. Can't have apes
referring to "God" on a kid's show. What would the Bible Belt think?
This way they could say, "See, Jimmy? Those apes don't read their
Bible. God has shunned them".
- - - Jeff

Jeff - - -
You use the phrase "throughout the TV show"; as far as I can recall,
the topic of religion was rarely addressed in the show. The
"Tomorrow's Tide" episode has references to sharks being "the gods of
the sea", and in "The Liberator" there's reference (I think--I'll have
to double-check) to "gods", and that's about it for polytheism: two
podunk communities, each one relatively distant from the Central City
area, and dominated by superstitious folks. Urko, in "Escape From
Tomorrow" makes two references to religion: at Virdon & Burke's trial,
he says that Virdon's belief ["all intelligent creatures should live
together as equals"] is "sacrilege and heresy"--and from this there's
no indication as to the number of deities worshipped by the
"mainstream" simian community--and after Galen is arrested and caught
with Farrow's book, Urko refers to him as "a liar and a heretic"--
again, no indication given as to whether or not Urko (and his fellow
apes) believe in "One God" or in a pantheon of Gods.
I'll have to watch 'em all again, cataloguing every reference to
"God", "gods", "heresy", etc. in order to see whether or not it is
reasonable to conclude that ALL the people (apes and humans) in the
Central City-dominated area believe in a plurality of deities.
Frankly, I don't think it IS reasonable to conclude this based on the
evidence so far. The religion practiced by "The Liberator" is
purposely contrived (via an insider's knowledge of the petroleum fumes
present in the "cave"/"temple") in order to further an agenda and to
also provide a "smoke-screen" to keep curious people away from the
secrets kept in the cave; and this religion in no way resembles what
any mainstream simian religion would be--after all, would the
mainstream ape community allow a HUMAN to officiate at a religious
ceremony? No friggin' way. The apes allow this bizarre human-
officiated religion to be practiced as long as they get their quota of
slaves. Given the "look" of the mask the "high priest" wears, the
"gods" they worship don't look either human or simian; I'd bed that if
the apes thought these "gods" were anthropomorphic (and not
pithecomorphic, i.e. "ape-shaped"), they would make it a capital
offense to practice that religion.
Remember how Honorius (in Taylor's trial) refers to the "First Article
of Faith"... that "God created the APE in His own image... gave him a
soul and a mind... set him apart from the beasts of the jungle, and
made him the lord of the planet"? Virdon's advocacy of EQUALITY for
apes and humans goes against this doctrine--a doctrine that Galen had
believed all his life until then ("Apes have always ruled the world...
ALWAYS!"). This suggests that Galen believed the same "article of
Faith" that Honorius would mention 9 centuries later. Given that
almost everything about the simian civilization in 3085 is identical
to that in 3955 (same clothing designs, same level of technology--
excepting for photography and blood-transfusions, same type of rock-
hewn dwelling places, etc.), it is reasonable to conclude that the
mainstream ape society in 3085 follows the same religion as in 3955,
the one addendum being that humans have yet to be driven "back into
their jungle lair" (as is advocated/ordered by "the Lawgiver" in the
Sacred Scrolls, 29th scroll, 6th verse); in 3085, humans are used as
slave labor, allowed to dwell amongst the ruling apes. THE Lawgiver
(i.e. the one who writes "Beware the beast Man..."), the one later on
referred to as "the greatest ape of all" by Zaius, must have come
along AFTER 3085 (or, perhaps, he's "at work" in the Ape world during
the time that Virdon & Burke are there as fugitives). In other words,
though the oldest of the canonical "Sacred Scrolls" are dated "1200
years" prior to 3955 (c. 2755), the most recent canonical additions (a
sort of "New Testament" to the former "Old Testament") could have been
written LATER than 2755... even as late as the year 3085 and
following. Perhaps it was in order to counter the "interference" of
Virdon and Burke (who were imparting their "science" to benefit humans
and apes) that the last prophet of the simian God, "the greatest ape
of all, our Lawgiver" wrote what would end up being the last (and most
important) of their canonical scriptures (just as Mohammed is
considered by Muslims as the LAST of Allah's prophets); and, just like
Mohammed, he promulgates a severe, intolerant doctrine regarding those
who are considered NOT to be "God's chosen".
Just something to think about...

Patrick Michael Tilton
EARTH-TIME 2-17-2002

P.S. "There are monkeyboys in the facility..."


Regarding the "gods" mentioned in the TV show, it isn't a certainty
that the entire Ape civilization shared the polytheistic belief system
that the fishing community in "Tomorrow's Tide" held. I don't see the
main Simian society worshipping a "pantheon" of deities, like the
Egyptian/Greek/Roman civilizations did; in BATTLE, the "Lawgiver"
(whom I've named--after "The Cure" reference--"Ornan") reads from a
"history scroll" which by 3955 is no longer known save by Zaius, and
he says, "In the beginning, God created Beast and Man, so that both
might live in friendship and share dominion over a world at peace; but
in the fullness of time, evil men betrayed God's trust..." etc. It
seems evident that this monotheistic religion (which Caesar said--to
MacDonald in CONQUEST--the apes would create) represents the
'mainstream' religion from the time of Caesar (1991-to-2018 and
following) until at least 2670. Something happens during the next 85
years to prompt another "Lawgiver" (whom I've named "Doswa", in
reference to Effinger's novelization of "The Surgeon") to re-write the
"sacred history" of the Apes, erasing any references to human
civilization/language/enslavement-of-apes/etc. If some isolated
communities (like the fishing village in "Tomorrow's Tide" or the
human tribe in "The Liberator") have their own less-sophisticated
polytheistic religions, that doesn't mean that the entire Ape "world"
shares those beliefs.
Just my two cents...

Patrick Michael Tilton
EARTH-TIME 2-13-2002

--- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
I think of it as similar to the pope being referred to as "the holiest
man of all" - and there are plently of them. Some were even murderers
and tyrants!

I still don't know about the two timelines, but I am leaning towards
Rory's interpretation (although I must say that even if the
scriptwriters of Battle DID intend us to go with the 2 timelines
theory, maybe the scriptwriter for Conquest didn't even think about
it!!!).

And the two space ships existing at the same time? With all the flubs
they made, it could be just another one.

Michael

> -----Original Message-----


Didn't Zaius have a line in the original that went something like,
"The greatest ape of all, our Lawgiver"? That would imply there was
only one Lawgiver in the film series. The Lawgiver in BATTLE isn't
the manhating one mentioned in PLANET because of the changes in
history brought about by the arrival of the apeonauts in 1973 (but
then some of you don't agree there's two timelines in the original
five films). And as far as the TV show goes, it's not really part of
the same universe as the film series, but should only be looked upon
as "further adventures among the monkeys" BASED on BATTLE more than
any of the other movies.

That's how I'll always look at it.

-- Rory

--- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
Well there's my point - just because it makes real sense that there
were 2 timelines, it doesn't mean that was the intention.

Patrick, what do you have to say about "sci-fi fanatics who spend
decades on endless theorizing."?

Michael


Michael, I'll be the first to admit that as far as POTA goes, I myself
AM a fanatic, and HAVE spent "decades on endless theorizing"! Not just
because I like to waste my time, mind you; I'm writing a humongo novel
based on the 5 films & 14 TV episodes... and I want my over-arching
plot to make sense of ALL the details given in the filmed adventures.
Because Dehn (and others) made more than a few "flubs", this has
required me to spend a great deal of time "unflubbing" the POTA saga.
As for the "timeline" problem, well, I prefer the single circular
theory; in BATTLE, we have a "mutant" community in possession of an
Alpha Omega bomb... which we all KNOW will be present in 3955 in
BENEATH--had Mendez and Alma DISMANTLED the Alpha Omega bomb, then I
might consider "time" to have been altered (via Hasslein's--and
Virgil's--theory about "lanes" that can be changed: "It's a blind
choice... but you CAN change lanes..."). The ending of BATTLE, circa
2670, depicts an ambiguous future for ape/human inter-relations: a
chimp child yanks on a human child's pony-tail... the human girl
pushes back ("It's a fight!")... the Lawgiver says that "perhaps only
the Dead" know the Future... and the statue of Caesar--who wanted to
change the Future to prevent the destruction of the Earth--sheds
tears! Not exactly a rosy outlook. I think it's very plausible that
this "edenic" society could/would devolve into the human-enslaving
simian society run by Zaius and Urko 415 years later. All it takes is
an unhealthy dose of intolerant organized religion...

Patrick Michael Tilton
EARTH-TIME 2-17-2002


> > -----Original Message-----
From: james611102 [Hardguy718@a...]

Well, at least there's one more who's smart enough to realize the film
series creates two timelines!

-- Rory

Come on!!! If you read any of Paul Dehn's interviews before he died
(some are in the book Planet of the Apes Chronicles); he states very
cleary the goal was to create one circular timeline. Remember the
movies were made for the average movie goer not sci-fi fanatics who
spend decades on endless theorizing.

--- In pota@y..., "james611102" <Hardguy718@a...> wrote:
either that or zira and cornelius didn't pay attention in history
class
-Sammo_of_Borg

You're making an assumption that the Apes, who never got beyond an
18th century level of development, would keep historical records with
the accuracy of 21th century technology, over a period of 2,000 years.
-----

You all are forgetting that Cornelius got access--at some point--to
"history scrolls that were kept hidden from the masses" (by Zaius),
which mention the Dog & Cat Plague, the Simian Slavery, and an ape
named "Aldo". None of this was in "history class"--it was suppressed
by Zaius ("He knew it all the time, long before you [Cornelius] found
your cave, he knew... 'Defender of the Faith'--'Guardian of the
Terrible Secret', that's it, isn't it, Doctor?" as Taylor says).
Cornelius calls these the "Secret Scrolls"--as opposed to the Sacred
Scrolls, their canonical scripture.

> --- In pota@y..., Rich Handley <handleyr@o...> wrote:
> > Surprisingly, you can get from Kim Hunter to Kevin Bacon in only
> ONE degree
> > of separation!
> >
> > Ready?
> >
> > Here goes...
> >
> > Kim Hunter starred in the soap opera "As The World Turns," which
> also
> > starred Martin Sheen.
> > Martin Sheen starred in "JFK" with... anyone? Bueller?... that's
> right!
> > Kevin Bacon!
> >
> > Surprising, eh? :)
>
> Martin Sheen wasn't in JFK, and if you go though TV shows the whole
> string has to remain in TV shows.
> I still think that Kim to Roddy who was in "She's Having a Baby" with
> Bacon is the quickest string.

> That's not what upset me.

> In a message dated 2/16/02 8:59:33 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> All I can think of is that Hunter was in APES, produced by Arthur

> who's favorite movie was KING KONG.
>
> -- Rory

> Wrong (sorry)! Martin Sheen's voice is the first voice heard in the
> 'intro' of "JFK"--he narrates the "historical background" leading

> the scene where the blonde hooker is "dumped" out of the car.

> may not have "starred" in JFK, but he's definitely IN the film--at
> least verbally if not visually.

> I wish we could have seen more skin on Nova.
>
> Matt

> What I really can't understand is why anyone would want the "APES

> a circular timeline? The world blowing up in 3955 OVER and OVER,

> of ever changing history? Isn't that a bit retarded? I think the

> point of sending the chimps back in time was to correct the huge

> in BENEATH of blowing up the world.
>
> -- Rory

> Thinking that life is short UPSETS ME!!!! You lighten up! Life

>
> -- Rory

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 10:39 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Battle DVD

In a message dated 2/17/02 2:18:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, prophecysite@... writes:

I would love too, but that's Scott Essman's creation.

And he still sells it from time to time on ebay. What I like to deal in, is out of print never to be seen again footage, otherwise I would have to pay royalties and up goes the price of the DVD. The only thing that was keeping the price up was the cost of the DVD blanks, but now that that's been solved. It's now all green lights across the board. And I really want to keep it that way. Essman's tribute tape is $20.00 alone.

But I agree, it's a great video.

Best.
Al

Well, don't let Fox hear you're copying the uncut BATTLE!!!  Not that they care much.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

> All I say is: Just say NO! to the world blowing up in 3955!

All us Apemaniacs breathed a sigh of relief to see this, as way back in our beginnings we had similar problems, especially after long bouts on the dance floor at gigs!

Brian

Haristas@... wrote:

 In a message dated 2/16/02 9:12:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, sammo_of_borg@... writes:
 
 

did anyone see where julian's shirt came up slightly revealing human skin?
now that upsets me
 
 

Who's Julian?  Do you mean Julius?  There's lots of times in PLANET where you see the skin, mostly Roddy's neck.

-- Rory

----- Original Message -----

From: CheeseGOTAS@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 12:44 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Lawgiver's name

In a message dated 2/17/02 9:53:04 AM Central Standard Time, Haristas@...
writes:

<< Thinking that life is short UPSETS ME!!!!   You lighten up!  Life is long!

-- Rory >>

Rory, you're probably halfway through your life now, so.... Lighten Up!

-Joe

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

> Try Amazon.com, but I'm sure someone here knows a site where it's cheaper,
> DVDPlanet.com maybe.

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 2:36 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Pointlessness

In a message dated 2/17/02 1:05:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, agnosticdragon@... writes:

Short, long, what does it matter anyway. It's all pointless. So just lay back and enjoy the ride while you can and don't take anything too seriously.

Drink and be merry, for tomorrow, we all may die!

The point of life IS that we all will die.  So I guess the old cliche is true: make the most of it.  What they don't tell you is that that's easier said than done.  Life has a whole lot of dull going on it it.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

> Well, I guess this is something that separates POTA fans. I think

> feared Taylor simply because he knew man destroyed the world in the

> would always be capable of it. And I still believe there had to be

> original timeline (or history) that lead to the world Taylor lands

> 3978!) that would then allow the chimps to return to the past IN

> SAVE THE WORLD! Besides, the apes being made into slaves happens

> of the chimp-o-nauts arriving in 1973 anyway, in fact have you ever

> how strange it is that Cornelius tells the government that apes

> into slaves will lead to man's overthrow, and yet the government

> happen anyway? This is one of the many flaws in logic that makes

> silly to try to correct it all as one perfectly round egg. This
> Humpty-Dumpty just don't fit together.
>
> -- Rory

>
> -- Rory

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sammo Law [sammo_of_borg@...]
> Sent: Sunday, 17 February 2002 11:43
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Medicom Planet of the Apes
>
>
> does anyone think that i should open my action figures? i dont
> want to ruin
> their value but im really tempted to open them (i only have 1
> right now but
> im gettin more).
>
> -Sammo_of_Borg

>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sammo Law [sammo_of_borg@...]
> Sent: Sunday, 17 February 2002 13:11
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Medicom Planet of the Apes
>
>
> do u think that they will go up in value?
>
> one guy has tried to sell his entire set on ebay at least twice for 580
> bucks, but not 1 person has bid. i am very tempted to open mine,
> but my mom
> says that they wont be worth as much in the future
>
> -Sammo_of_Borg
>
>
> >From: Haristas@...
> >Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> >To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Medicom Planet of the Apes
> >Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 20:18:06 EST
> >
> >In a message dated 2/16/02 7:46:20 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> >sammo_of_borg@... writes:
> >
> >
> > > does anyone think that i should open my action figures? i
> dont want to
> >ruin
> > >
> > > their value but im really tempted to open them (i only have 1
> right now
> >but
> > >
> > > im gettin more).
> > >
> > > -Sammo_of_Borg
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >I opened all of mine -- I'm not likely to ever sell them, so
> what the hell.
> >Besides, you gotta set up that Lawgiver for morning prayers.
> >
> >-- Rory
>
>
>
>
> _____