----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian C. Madsen" <BCMadsen@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 12:08 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Differences in the two Behind DVD's?


> I finally got around to purchasing the collector's edition of Behind the
POTA.
> (It's been on my list of things to do forever. So much to do, so little
time.)
>
> In addition to extras on the newer release, the feature presentation is
seven
> minutes longer. I watched it, but couldn't tell where the extra seven
minutes
> were.
>
> Does anyone here have a scene-by-scene breakdown of what was changed
> between the boxed-set version of the DVD and the collector's edition? I'd
> be very interested to know what's new that I've overlooked.
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
>
> Brian C. Madsen
> BCMadsen@...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> How about this can anyone get Kim Hunter to
> Fay Wray? It should take only 3 degrees.
>
> Well, I'll have a go . . .
>
> King Kong stared Fay Wray and Robert Armstrong, who was in The Ex-
Mrs.
> Bradford with William Powell, who was in After the Thin Man with,
with Myrna
> Loy, who was in Colombo as was . . . Kim Hunter. What the Falk?
But to stay
> in films you go back to After the Thin Man which also starred James
Stewart,
> who was in The Greatest Show on Earth with Charton Heston etc ect...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 2:01 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Dehn's Timeline/s


> I'd love to see that Dehn chronology.
>
> Have they pulled the plug on the English translation of Adami's book?
>
> Michael
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: veetus@... [veetus@...]
> > Sent: Saturday, 16 February 2002 17:49
>
> Dehn wrote a chronology which is at the Arthur Jacobs archives. I haven't
> looked at it yet, but Luiz Adami of Brazil copied it. Maybe I'll contact
him
> and find out what it said.
> Jeff
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 5:15 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Differences in the two Behind DVD's?

In a message dated 2/16/02 7:10:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, sammo_of_borg@... writes:

where can u get this new behind the pota online?

thanks

-Sammo_of_Borg

Try Amazon.com, but I'm sure someone here knows a site where it's cheaper, DVDPlanet.com maybe.   Yeah, DVDPlanet, that sounds like a good place to get APES stuff.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

----- Original Message -----
From: <MTotsky@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 8:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Medicom Planet of the Apes


>
> In a message dated 2/16/02 9:42:32 PM, sammo_of_borg@... writes:
>
> << one guy has tried to sell his entire set on ebay at least twice for 580
> bucks, but not 1 person has bid. i am very tempted to open mine, but my
mom
> says that they wont be worth as much in the future >>
>
> Do whatever makes you happy. Did you buy the toy as an investment? Then
don't
> open it (althought I think the value will go down when the U.S. releases
come
> out). Did you buy it because you liked it? Then open it. I bought all of
them
> and opened them all. Now I have an awesome display. Personally I think
> investing in toys is worthless. You would be better off putting it into a
CD
> at the bank or something.
>
> Matt
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Alexander Ruiz

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 11:26 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Differences in the two Behind DVD's?

Yeah,

I picked up a POTA 2001 resale video for $10.00 at blockbuster video.

I remeber when, Jeff, spoke about how FOX placed an explanation to the ending in the back of the video cover.

"visit www.planetoftheapesvideo.com". is said.

Well, get this, they also placed a 2 or 3 minute segment at the end of the film giving clues on explaning the ending. Then saying to visit www.planetofhteapesvideo.com

Pretty cool. Something the DVD didn't bring.

But I still agree, it's like having to explain a joke.

 

Best.

Al

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: MTotsky@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 11:40 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Differences in the two Behind DVD's?

In a message dated 2/16/02 8:16:12 PM, Haristas@... writes:

<< where can u get this new behind the pota online? >>

My local Blockbuster had used copies on sale for about $12.

Matt


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

----- Original Message -----
From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 6:19 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Lawgiver's name


> --- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> Patrick - - -
> The apes refer to "gods" throughout the TV show, not just in
> "Tomorrow's Tide". Probably a way to sugar coat it. Can't have apes
> referring to "God" on a kid's show. What would the Bible Belt think?
> This way they could say, "See, Jimmy? Those apes don't read their
> Bible. God has shunned them".
> - - - Jeff
>
> Jeff - - -
> You use the phrase "throughout the TV show"; as far as I can recall,
> the topic of religion was rarely addressed in the show. The
> "Tomorrow's Tide" episode has references to sharks being "the gods of
> the sea", and in "The Liberator" there's reference (I think--I'll have
> to double-check) to "gods", and that's about it for polytheism: two
> podunk communities, each one relatively distant from the Central City
> area, and dominated by superstitious folks. Urko, in "Escape From
> Tomorrow" makes two references to religion: at Virdon & Burke's trial,
> he says that Virdon's belief ["all intelligent creatures should live
> together as equals"] is "sacrilege and heresy"--and from this there's
> no indication as to the number of deities worshipped by the
> "mainstream" simian community--and after Galen is arrested and caught
> with Farrow's book, Urko refers to him as "a liar and a heretic"--
> again, no indication given as to whether or not Urko (and his fellow
> apes) believe in "One God" or in a pantheon of Gods.
> I'll have to watch 'em all again, cataloguing every reference to
> "God", "gods", "heresy", etc. in order to see whether or not it is
> reasonable to conclude that ALL the people (apes and humans) in the
> Central City-dominated area believe in a plurality of deities.
> Frankly, I don't think it IS reasonable to conclude this based on the
> evidence so far. The religion practiced by "The Liberator" is
> purposely contrived (via an insider's knowledge of the petroleum fumes
> present in the "cave"/"temple") in order to further an agenda and to
> also provide a "smoke-screen" to keep curious people away from the
> secrets kept in the cave; and this religion in no way resembles what
> any mainstream simian religion would be--after all, would the
> mainstream ape community allow a HUMAN to officiate at a religious
> ceremony? No friggin' way. The apes allow this bizarre human-
> officiated religion to be practiced as long as they get their quota of
> slaves. Given the "look" of the mask the "high priest" wears, the
> "gods" they worship don't look either human or simian; I'd bed that if
> the apes thought these "gods" were anthropomorphic (and not
> pithecomorphic, i.e. "ape-shaped"), they would make it a capital
> offense to practice that religion.
> Remember how Honorius (in Taylor's trial) refers to the "First Article
> of Faith"... that "God created the APE in His own image... gave him a
> soul and a mind... set him apart from the beasts of the jungle, and
> made him the lord of the planet"? Virdon's advocacy of EQUALITY for
> apes and humans goes against this doctrine--a doctrine that Galen had
> believed all his life until then ("Apes have always ruled the world...
> ALWAYS!"). This suggests that Galen believed the same "article of
> Faith" that Honorius would mention 9 centuries later. Given that
> almost everything about the simian civilization in 3085 is identical
> to that in 3955 (same clothing designs, same level of technology--
> excepting for photography and blood-transfusions, same type of rock-
> hewn dwelling places, etc.), it is reasonable to conclude that the
> mainstream ape society in 3085 follows the same religion as in 3955,
> the one addendum being that humans have yet to be driven "back into
> their jungle lair" (as is advocated/ordered by "the Lawgiver" in the
> Sacred Scrolls, 29th scroll, 6th verse); in 3085, humans are used as
> slave labor, allowed to dwell amongst the ruling apes. THE Lawgiver
> (i.e. the one who writes "Beware the beast Man..."), the one later on
> referred to as "the greatest ape of all" by Zaius, must have come
> along AFTER 3085 (or, perhaps, he's "at work" in the Ape world during
> the time that Virdon & Burke are there as fugitives). In other words,
> though the oldest of the canonical "Sacred Scrolls" are dated "1200
> years" prior to 3955 (c. 2755), the most recent canonical additions (a
> sort of "New Testament" to the former "Old Testament") could have been
> written LATER than 2755... even as late as the year 3085 and
> following. Perhaps it was in order to counter the "interference" of
> Virdon and Burke (who were imparting their "science" to benefit humans
> and apes) that the last prophet of the simian God, "the greatest ape
> of all, our Lawgiver" wrote what would end up being the last (and most
> important) of their canonical scriptures (just as Mohammed is
> considered by Muslims as the LAST of Allah's prophets); and, just like
> Mohammed, he promulgates a severe, intolerant doctrine regarding those
> who are considered NOT to be "God's chosen".
> Just something to think about...
>
> Patrick Michael Tilton
> EARTH-TIME 2-17-2002
>
> P.S. "There are monkeyboys in the facility..."
>
>
> Regarding the "gods" mentioned in the TV show, it isn't a certainty
> that the entire Ape civilization shared the polytheistic belief system
> that the fishing community in "Tomorrow's Tide" held. I don't see the
> main Simian society worshipping a "pantheon" of deities, like the
> Egyptian/Greek/Roman civilizations did; in BATTLE, the "Lawgiver"
> (whom I've named--after "The Cure" reference--"Ornan") reads from a
> "history scroll" which by 3955 is no longer known save by Zaius, and
> he says, "In the beginning, God created Beast and Man, so that both
> might live in friendship and share dominion over a world at peace; but
> in the fullness of time, evil men betrayed God's trust..." etc. It
> seems evident that this monotheistic religion (which Caesar said--to
> MacDonald in CONQUEST--the apes would create) represents the
> 'mainstream' religion from the time of Caesar (1991-to-2018 and
> following) until at least 2670. Something happens during the next 85
> years to prompt another "Lawgiver" (whom I've named "Doswa", in
> reference to Effinger's novelization of "The Surgeon") to re-write the
> "sacred history" of the Apes, erasing any references to human
> civilization/language/enslavement-of-apes/etc. If some isolated
> communities (like the fishing village in "Tomorrow's Tide" or the
> human tribe in "The Liberator") have their own less-sophisticated
> polytheistic religions, that doesn't mean that the entire Ape "world"
> shares those beliefs.
> Just my two cents...
>
> Patrick Michael Tilton
> EARTH-TIME 2-13-2002
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 6:57 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: In the Name of the Lawgiver


> The word "Lawgiver" is not a name, it's a title--sort of like the
> title "Mashiach/Messiah" [Heb. "anointed one", = Gk. Christos]. A lot
> of ignorant Christians think the word 'Messiah' (as used in the Old
> Testament "prophecies") ALWAYS refers to Jesus, and a lot of those
> same Christians think that 'Christ' is his last name. In the original
> Greek, it isn't "Jesus Christ", it's "Jesus the Christ" ("Iesous ho
> Christos", i.e. Jesus, the Anointed One). The term "messiah", meaning
> "anointed one" was used for at least 3 different types of persons:
> Kings, Priests, and Prophets (and also for at least one thing: the Ark
> of the Covenant was "anointed"--making it, too, a "messiah"). King
> David was anointed--he was a "messiah"--and he wasn't Jesus. Getting a
> dollop of cream smeared onto your head was all it took to make you a
> 'messiah'. Even if the person doing the application of the cream was a
> WOMAN (after all, the one who 'anoints' Jesus is Mary Magdalene, using
> the expensive balm, which pissed off Judas so much).
> So, the word "Lawgiver" could be similar: a title referring to any
> particular individual who had religious authority in the community
> (circa 2670 and following). There's a nice (human-tolerating) Lawgiver
> around in 2670, and 85 years later another Lawgiver (a "mean" one, who
> hates humans) writes the oldest of the Sacred Scrolls (a "historical
> revision", given that all references to the Pet Plague, Simian Slavery
> under Humans, and "Aldo" are expunged from the record). And then (in
> my scenario, at any rate), around 3085 and following, the "last" of
> the Lawgivers writes the final canonical Scrolls, instructing Apes to
> drive their enslaved humans into the jungle ("for he is the harbinger
> of death"). You don't need to come up with another parallel "timeline"
> to reconcile the various time periods; a lot can happen in 85 years...
> or even another 330 years (i.e. between 2755 and 3085) to cause the
> simian society to get more "fundamentalist" in their religious views.
> So, just because Zaius (in PLANET) refers to a single individual when
> he says "the greatest ape of all, our Lawgiver", doesn't mean that
> there was ONLY ONE Lawgiver... only that one specific Lawgiver was
> later considered so great that he eclipsed all prior Lawgivers in
> importance (as Muslims regard Mohammed, for instance: "There is no god
> but Allah, and Mohammed is His prophet", despite Islam's belief that
> Moses and Jesus, too, were prior prophets... but, obviously (to them),
> not as important as Mohammed).
> I think of the "Lawgivers" as a sort of "high priesthood", with the
> "office" being handed down, sort of like the title of Pope (perhaps a
> religious council of "Defenders of the Faith" votes for the new
> "Lawgiver" the same way that the "College of Cardinals" votes for the
> new Pope when the old one dies off). Perhaps one particularly
> effective Lawgiver--claiming to be "divinely inspired"--declares that
> it is God's Will that there no longer be another "Lawgiver" to follow
> his tenure... since a future human-tolerating Lawgiver might amend the
> Sacred Scrolls, throwing out those scrolls that condemn Humanity. The
> mean one might wish to inaugurate a "new age" of Simian religion,
> declaring that God's "message" to Apes is "complete" with the last-
> written scrolls (which he, of course, just happened to pen). What
> better way to "freeze" the religion into a dogmatic rut than to
> abolish the title of Lawgiver from that point on?
> Ah, organized religion! Does anybody dislike it as much as I do?
>
> Patrick Michael Tilton
> EARTH-TIME 2-17-2002
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> I think of it as similar to the pope being referred to as "the holiest
> man of all" - and there are plently of them. Some were even murderers
> and tyrants!
>
> I still don't know about the two timelines, but I am leaning towards
> Rory's interpretation (although I must say that even if the
> scriptwriters of Battle DID intend us to go with the 2 timelines
> theory, maybe the scriptwriter for Conquest didn't even think about
> it!!!).
>
> And the two space ships existing at the same time? With all the flubs
> they made, it could be just another one.
>
> Michael
>
> > -----Original Message-----
>
>
> Didn't Zaius have a line in the original that went something like,
> "The greatest ape of all, our Lawgiver"? That would imply there was
> only one Lawgiver in the film series. The Lawgiver in BATTLE isn't
> the manhating one mentioned in PLANET because of the changes in
> history brought about by the arrival of the apeonauts in 1973 (but
> then some of you don't agree there's two timelines in the original
> five films). And as far as the TV show goes, it's not really part of
> the same universe as the film series, but should only be looked upon
> as "further adventures among the monkeys" BASED on BATTLE more than
> any of the other movies.
>
> That's how I'll always look at it.
>
> -- Rory
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 7:15 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Timelines


> --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> Well there's my point - just because it makes real sense that there
> were 2 timelines, it doesn't mean that was the intention.
>
> Patrick, what do you have to say about "sci-fi fanatics who spend
> decades on endless theorizing."?
>
> Michael
>
>
> Michael, I'll be the first to admit that as far as POTA goes, I myself
> AM a fanatic, and HAVE spent "decades on endless theorizing"! Not just
> because I like to waste my time, mind you; I'm writing a humongo novel
> based on the 5 films & 14 TV episodes... and I want my over-arching
> plot to make sense of ALL the details given in the filmed adventures.
> Because Dehn (and others) made more than a few "flubs", this has
> required me to spend a great deal of time "unflubbing" the POTA saga.
> As for the "timeline" problem, well, I prefer the single circular
> theory; in BATTLE, we have a "mutant" community in possession of an
> Alpha Omega bomb... which we all KNOW will be present in 3955 in
> BENEATH--had Mendez and Alma DISMANTLED the Alpha Omega bomb, then I
> might consider "time" to have been altered (via Hasslein's--and
> Virgil's--theory about "lanes" that can be changed: "It's a blind
> choice... but you CAN change lanes..."). The ending of BATTLE, circa
> 2670, depicts an ambiguous future for ape/human inter-relations: a
> chimp child yanks on a human child's pony-tail... the human girl
> pushes back ("It's a fight!")... the Lawgiver says that "perhaps only
> the Dead" know the Future... and the statue of Caesar--who wanted to
> change the Future to prevent the destruction of the Earth--sheds
> tears! Not exactly a rosy outlook. I think it's very plausible that
> this "edenic" society could/would devolve into the human-enslaving
> simian society run by Zaius and Urko 415 years later. All it takes is
> an unhealthy dose of intolerant organized religion...
>
> Patrick Michael Tilton
> EARTH-TIME 2-17-2002
>
>
> > > -----Original Message-----
> From: james611102 [Hardguy718@a...]
>
> Well, at least there's one more who's smart enough to realize the film
> series creates two timelines!
>
> -- Rory
>
> Come on!!! If you read any of Paul Dehn's interviews before he died
> (some are in the book Planet of the Apes Chronicles); he states very
> cleary the goal was to create one circular timeline. Remember the
> movies were made for the average movie goer not sci-fi fanatics who
> spend decades on endless theorizing.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----

From: veetus@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 11:35 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Differences in the two Behind DVD's?

  Hey Alex, could you put that "explanation" on your web for those of us who just have the DVD? The card in the DVD also directs you to Boulle's novel, I guess to say, "See? That's how the book ended too!".

 

                                                            - - - Jeff

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Alexander Ruiz

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 11:26 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Differences in the two Behind DVD's?

Yeah,

I picked up a POTA 2001 resale video for $10.00 at blockbuster video.

I remeber when, Jeff, spoke about how FOX placed an explanation to the ending in the back of the video cover.

"visit www.planetoftheapesvideo.com". is said.

Well, get this, they also placed a 2 or 3 minute segment at the end of the film giving clues on explaning the ending. Then saying to visit www.planetofhteapesvideo.com

Pretty cool. Something the DVD didn't bring.

But I still agree, it's like having to explain a joke.

 

Best.

Al

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: MTotsky@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 11:40 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Differences in the two Behind DVD's?

In a message dated 2/16/02 8:16:12 PM, Haristas@... writes:

<< where can u get this new behind the pota online? >>

My local Blockbuster had used copies on sale for about $12.

Matt


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

----- Original Message -----
From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 7:15 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Timelines


> --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> Well there's my point - just because it makes real sense that there
> were 2 timelines, it doesn't mean that was the intention.
>
> Patrick, what do you have to say about "sci-fi fanatics who spend
> decades on endless theorizing."?
>
> Michael
>
>
> Michael, I'll be the first to admit that as far as POTA goes, I myself
> AM a fanatic, and HAVE spent "decades on endless theorizing"! Not just
> because I like to waste my time, mind you; I'm writing a humongo novel
> based on the 5 films & 14 TV episodes... and I want my over-arching
> plot to make sense of ALL the details given in the filmed adventures.
> Because Dehn (and others) made more than a few "flubs", this has
> required me to spend a great deal of time "unflubbing" the POTA saga.
> As for the "timeline" problem, well, I prefer the single circular
> theory; in BATTLE, we have a "mutant" community in possession of an
> Alpha Omega bomb... which we all KNOW will be present in 3955 in
> BENEATH--had Mendez and Alma DISMANTLED the Alpha Omega bomb, then I
> might consider "time" to have been altered (via Hasslein's--and
> Virgil's--theory about "lanes" that can be changed: "It's a blind
> choice... but you CAN change lanes..."). The ending of BATTLE, circa
> 2670, depicts an ambiguous future for ape/human inter-relations: a
> chimp child yanks on a human child's pony-tail... the human girl
> pushes back ("It's a fight!")... the Lawgiver says that "perhaps only
> the Dead" know the Future... and the statue of Caesar--who wanted to
> change the Future to prevent the destruction of the Earth--sheds
> tears! Not exactly a rosy outlook. I think it's very plausible that
> this "edenic" society could/would devolve into the human-enslaving
> simian society run by Zaius and Urko 415 years later. All it takes is
> an unhealthy dose of intolerant organized religion...
>
> Patrick Michael Tilton
> EARTH-TIME 2-17-2002
>
>
> > > -----Original Message-----
> From: james611102 [Hardguy718@a...]
>
> Well, at least there's one more who's smart enough to realize the film
> series creates two timelines!
>
> -- Rory
>
> Come on!!! If you read any of Paul Dehn's interviews before he died
> (some are in the book Planet of the Apes Chronicles); he states very
> cleary the goal was to create one circular timeline. Remember the
> movies were made for the average movie goer not sci-fi fanatics who
> spend decades on endless theorizing.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 7:15 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Timelines


> --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> Well there's my point - just because it makes real sense that there
> were 2 timelines, it doesn't mean that was the intention.
>
> Patrick, what do you have to say about "sci-fi fanatics who spend
> decades on endless theorizing."?
>
> Michael
>
>
> Michael, I'll be the first to admit that as far as POTA goes, I myself
> AM a fanatic, and HAVE spent "decades on endless theorizing"! Not just
> because I like to waste my time, mind you; I'm writing a humongo novel
> based on the 5 films & 14 TV episodes... and I want my over-arching
> plot to make sense of ALL the details given in the filmed adventures.
> Because Dehn (and others) made more than a few "flubs", this has
> required me to spend a great deal of time "unflubbing" the POTA saga.
> As for the "timeline" problem, well, I prefer the single circular
> theory; in BATTLE, we have a "mutant" community in possession of an
> Alpha Omega bomb... which we all KNOW will be present in 3955 in
> BENEATH--had Mendez and Alma DISMANTLED the Alpha Omega bomb, then I
> might consider "time" to have been altered (via Hasslein's--and
> Virgil's--theory about "lanes" that can be changed: "It's a blind
> choice... but you CAN change lanes..."). The ending of BATTLE, circa
> 2670, depicts an ambiguous future for ape/human inter-relations: a
> chimp child yanks on a human child's pony-tail... the human girl
> pushes back ("It's a fight!")... the Lawgiver says that "perhaps only
> the Dead" know the Future... and the statue of Caesar--who wanted to
> change the Future to prevent the destruction of the Earth--sheds
> tears! Not exactly a rosy outlook. I think it's very plausible that
> this "edenic" society could/would devolve into the human-enslaving
> simian society run by Zaius and Urko 415 years later. All it takes is
> an unhealthy dose of intolerant organized religion...
>
> Patrick Michael Tilton
> EARTH-TIME 2-17-2002
>
>
> > > -----Original Message-----
> From: james611102 [Hardguy718@a...]
>
> Well, at least there's one more who's smart enough to realize the film
> series creates two timelines!
>
> -- Rory
>
> Come on!!! If you read any of Paul Dehn's interviews before he died
> (some are in the book Planet of the Apes Chronicles); he states very
> cleary the goal was to create one circular timeline. Remember the
> movies were made for the average movie goer not sci-fi fanatics who
> spend decades on endless theorizing.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 8:10 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Timelines


> > All I say is: Just say NO! to the world blowing up in 3955!
>
> Just saying no won't change things. And remember Zaius' line in POTA
> when Lucius asked him about the future, "I may just have saved it for
> you". Which indicates that he knows about the end of the world. He is
> the only ape in Beneath that knows of that the Alpha-Omega bomb
> will 'kill us all'. And as he said to Taylor,"All my life I've
> awaited your coming and dreaded it like death itself". So there is
> evidence to support that Zaius knows of ulimate fate of the world and
> is trying to change it. How else could he know unless its a circular
> timeline.
> Of course there is equal evidence to support 2 timelines. But both
> points of view are valid.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> Doesn't sound like a circular point of view to me.

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 8:13 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Battle DVD

In a message dated 2/17/02 11:10:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, prophecysite@... writes:

And by doing so, maybe fox will finally release an official version of it.

Well, they'd be smart to do that.  Hopefully when they get around to doing anamorphic remasters of the DVDs, we'll get a boxed-set of the sequels with lots of extras.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 8:25 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Timelines

In a message dated 2/17/02 11:10:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

Of course there is equal evidence to support 2 timelines. But both
points of view are valid.

Well, I guess this is something that separates POTA fans.  I think Zaius feared Taylor simply because he knew man destroyed the world in the past and would always be capable of it.  And I still believe there had to be an original timeline (or history) that lead to the world Taylor lands in (in 3978!) that would then allow the chimps to return to the past IN ORDER TO SAVE THE WORLD!  Besides, the apes being made into slaves happens independent of the chimp-o-nauts arriving in 1973 anyway, in fact have you ever thought how strange it is that Cornelius tells the government that apes being made into slaves will lead to man's overthrow, and yet the government lets it happen anyway?  This is one of the many flaws in logic that makes it kind of silly to try to correct it all as one perfectly round egg.  This Humpty-Dumpty just don't fit together.

-- Rory

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 11:36 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Pointlessness

In a message dated 2/17/02 1:05:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, agnosticdragon@... writes:

Short, long, what does it matter anyway. It's all pointless. So just lay back and enjoy the ride while you can and don't take anything too seriously.

Drink and be merry, for tomorrow, we all may die!

The point of life IS that we all will die.  So I guess the old cliche is true: make the most of it.  What they don't tell you is that that's easier said than done.  Life has a whole lot of dull going on it it.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

----- Original Message -----
From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 12:40 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Timelines


> > Well, I guess this is something that separates POTA fans. I think
> Zaius
> > feared Taylor simply because he knew man destroyed the world in the
> past and
> > would always be capable of it. And I still believe there had to be
> an
> > original timeline (or history) that lead to the world Taylor lands
> in (in
> > 3978!) that would then allow the chimps to return to the past IN
> ORDER TO
> > SAVE THE WORLD! Besides, the apes being made into slaves happens
> independent
> > of the chimp-o-nauts arriving in 1973 anyway, in fact have you ever
> thought
> > how strange it is that Cornelius tells the government that apes
> being made
> > into slaves will lead to man's overthrow, and yet the government
> lets it
> > happen anyway? This is one of the many flaws in logic that makes
> it kind of
> > silly to try to correct it all as one perfectly round egg. This
> > Humpty-Dumpty just don't fit together.
> >
> > -- Rory
>
> That's an interesting interpetation. But its just one interpetation,
> there are others and they are just as valid as yours. I've heard many
> including that Taylor and Brent came from a parallel earth on the
> other side of the galaxy since their space agency was ANSA not NASA
> as stated in Escape. But I've also heard logical explanations for the
> errors, everything from the chronometer on Taylor's ship being
> damaged when it crash and jumping ahead to the government becoming
> more repressive due to the slavery of apes in the free market
> fulfilling Cornelius' predictions.
> The original movie series was cut short so alot of mistakes and gaps
> were left. We all fill them in on our own and every interpetation is
> valid. Several years ago when the remake was in turnaround a friend
> of mine presented a treatment for a trilogy that would fill in all
> the gaps left from the first five. The third was the most interesting
> and involved scientists from an underground government think tank
> realizing the world was caught in a temporal loop and travelling to
> 3955 (using the same technology they used in Forest Gump to put them
> in to scenes from Beneath) in order to prevent Earth's destruction,
> therefore Cornelius and Zira won't be able to come back and give
> birth to Ceaser, starting the whole cycle again). It end with one of
> the scientists shooting the red level just as Taylor is about to pull
> it. Then a flash of light and it jumps ahead 30 years to Taylor
> giving a speech at Harvard about how far man has progressed in 2,000
> years. Sort of a bookend to his speech at the beginning of the first
> film.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 8:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Dehn's Timeline/s


> If you have the book "The Planet of the Apes Chronicles", the
> timeline published there was I believe based in part on Dehn's
> timeline.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Alexander Ruiz

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 8:52 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Differences in the two Behind DVD's?

I'll try.

The video tape has that copy protection on it and I have a bit of trouble capturing it.

It sort of ticks along instead of smoth runing capture. But just so that you can see it, I'll post it this week.

 

It's a pretty neat segment.

It takes you to all the key scenes in the movie. Then leaves you with the web address.

I only feel sorry for those who see the segment and don't have the internet.

Talk about getting bitch slaped TWICE! hehehe...

 

Fox has a strange way of doning things.

 

In my point of view, if you didn't get, then you'll just have to wait for the sequel.

That way you build up the hype FOR the sequel.

 

Jeeezzzz....no creativity whatsoever.

Oh, well.

 

Best.

Al

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: veetus@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 11:35 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Differences in the two Behind DVD's?

  Hey Alex, could you put that "explanation" on your web for those of us who just have the DVD? The card in the DVD also directs you to Boulle's novel, I guess to say, "See? That's how the book ended too!".

 

                                                            - - - Jeff

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Alexander Ruiz

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 11:26 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Differences in the two Behind DVD's?

Yeah,

I picked up a POTA 2001 resale video for $10.00 at blockbuster video.

I remeber when, Jeff, spoke about how FOX placed an explanation to the ending in the back of the video cover.

"visit www.planetoftheapesvideo.com". is said.

Well, get this, they also placed a 2 or 3 minute segment at the end of the film giving clues on explaning the ending. Then saying to visit www.planetofhteapesvideo.com

Pretty cool. Something the DVD didn't bring.

But I still agree, it's like having to explain a joke.

 

Best.

Al

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: MTotsky@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 11:40 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Differences in the two Behind DVD's?

In a message dated 2/16/02 8:16:12 PM, Haristas@... writes:

<< where can u get this new behind the pota online? >>

My local Blockbuster had used copies on sale for about $12.

Matt


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

> That's interesting. My idea for the remake was it ends with

> leaving and arriving back on Earth where he finds Taylor and

> setting off on their adventures in the Forbidden Zone (using the

> "Forest Gump" technology. He says "Here we go again" and catches up

----- Original Message -----

From: veetus@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 12:09 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Timelines

   I think the ending of "Battle" was meant to be ambiguous. You wouldn't
get away with an ending like that today, that's why movies aren't as
interesting as they used to be.              - - - Jeff


----- Original Message -----
From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 7:15 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Timelines


> --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> Well there's my point - just because it makes real sense that there
> were 2 timelines, it doesn't mean that was the intention.
>
> Patrick, what do you have to say about "sci-fi fanatics who spend
> decades on endless theorizing."?
>
> Michael
>
>
> Michael, I'll be the first to admit that as far as POTA goes, I myself
> AM a fanatic, and HAVE spent "decades on endless theorizing"! Not just
> because I like to waste my time, mind you; I'm writing a humongo novel
> based on the 5 films & 14 TV episodes... and I want my over-arching
> plot to make sense of ALL the details given in the filmed adventures.
> Because Dehn (and others) made more than a few "flubs", this has
> required me to spend a great deal of time "unflubbing" the POTA saga.
> As for the "timeline" problem, well, I prefer the single circular
> theory; in BATTLE, we have a "mutant" community in possession of an
> Alpha Omega bomb... which we all KNOW will be present in 3955 in
> BENEATH--had Mendez and Alma DISMANTLED the Alpha Omega bomb, then I
> might consider "time" to have been altered (via Hasslein's--and
> Virgil's--theory about "lanes" that can be changed: "It's a blind
> choice... but you CAN change lanes..."). The ending of BATTLE, circa
> 2670, depicts an ambiguous future for ape/human inter-relations: a
> chimp child yanks on a human child's pony-tail... the human girl
> pushes back ("It's a fight!")... the Lawgiver says that "perhaps only
> the Dead" know the Future... and the statue of Caesar--who wanted to
> change the Future to prevent the destruction of the Earth--sheds
> tears! Not exactly a rosy outlook. I think it's very plausible that
> this "edenic" society could/would devolve into the human-enslaving
> simian society run by Zaius and Urko 415 years later. All it takes is
> an unhealthy dose of intolerant organized religion...
>
> Patrick Michael Tilton
> EARTH-TIME 2-17-2002
>
>
> > > -----Original Message-----
> From: james611102 [Hardguy718@a...]
>
> Well, at least there's one more who's smart enough to realize the film
> series creates two timelines!
>
> -- Rory
>
> Come on!!! If you read any of Paul Dehn's interviews before he died
> (some are in the book Planet of the Apes Chronicles); he states very
> cleary the goal was to create one circular timeline. Remember the
> movies were made for the average movie goer not sci-fi fanatics who
> spend decades on endless theorizing.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

There was also a great dedication to the late John Chambers by John Landis, who told some great stories of hanging out in the make-up lab at Fox while John was prepping Beneath.  Landis also brought a clip from SCHLOCK where Chambers played a local barber who was head of the National Guard.  Fun stuff.

Dustin Hoffman was also honored with the Barrymore Award for his career.  He graciously accepted the honor and thanked all of the make-up and hair people both in his career and in the industry as a whole for helping to create the characters the he and other actors have portrayed throughout film history.  He was amazing and everything he said came from the heart.

G'nite from tinsel-town,

Brian
 
 

----- Original Message -----

From: veetus@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 12:29 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Timelines

  That's interesting. My idea for the remake was it ends with Wahlberg
leaving and arriving back on Earth where he finds Taylor and friends just
setting off on their adventures in the Forbidden Zone (using the same
"Forest Gump" technology. He says "Here we go again" and catches up to them.

                                                             - - - Jeff


----- Original Message -----
From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 12:40 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Timelines


> > Well, I guess this is something that separates POTA fans.  I think
> Zaius
> > feared Taylor simply because he knew man destroyed the world in the
> past and
> > would always be capable of it.  And I still believe there had to be
> an
> > original timeline (or history) that lead to the world Taylor lands
> in (in
> > 3978!) that would then allow the chimps to return to the past IN
> ORDER TO
> > SAVE THE WORLD!  Besides, the apes being made into slaves happens
> independent
> > of the chimp-o-nauts arriving in 1973 anyway, in fact have you ever
> thought
> > how strange it is that Cornelius tells the government that apes
> being made
> > into slaves will lead to man's overthrow, and yet the government
> lets it
> > happen anyway?  This is one of the many flaws in logic that makes
> it kind of
> > silly to try to correct it all as one perfectly round egg.  This
> > Humpty-Dumpty just don't fit together.
> >
> > -- Rory
>
> That's an interesting interpetation. But its just one interpetation,
> there are others and they are just as valid as yours. I've heard many
> including that Taylor and Brent came from a parallel earth on the
> other side of the galaxy since their space agency was ANSA not NASA
> as stated in Escape. But I've also heard logical explanations for the
> errors, everything from the chronometer on Taylor's ship being
> damaged when it crash and jumping ahead to the government becoming
> more repressive due to the slavery of apes in the free market
> fulfilling Cornelius' predictions.
> The original movie series was cut short so alot of mistakes and gaps
> were left. We all fill them in on our own and every interpetation is
> valid. Several years ago when the remake was in turnaround a friend
> of mine presented a treatment for a trilogy that would fill in all
> the gaps left from the first five. The third was the most interesting
> and involved scientists from an underground government think tank
> realizing the world was caught in a temporal loop and travelling to
> 3955 (using the same technology they used in Forest Gump to put them
> in to scenes from Beneath) in order to prevent Earth's destruction,
> therefore Cornelius and Zira won't be able to come back and give
> birth to Ceaser, starting the whole cycle again). It end with one of
> the scientists shooting the red level just as Taylor is about to pull
> it. Then a flash of light and it jumps ahead 30 years to Taylor
> giving a speech at Harvard about how far man has progressed in 2,000
> years. Sort of a bookend to his speech at the beginning of the first
> film.
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

----- Original Message -----

From: Brian

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 11:06 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Make-up Artist Guild Awards

Well folks, you'll be happy to hear that Rick Baker did get the 3rd Annual Make-up Guild Award tonight for Best Special Make-up in a feature film for Planet of the Apes 2001, beating out HANNIBAL and ALI.

There was also a great dedication to the late John Chambers by John Landis, who told some great stories of hanging out in the make-up lab at Fox while John was prepping Beneath.  Landis also brought a clip from SCHLOCK where Chambers played a local barber who was head of the National Guard.  Fun stuff.

Dustin Hoffman was also honored with the Barrymore Award for his career.  He graciously accepted the honor and thanked all of the make-up and hair people both in his career and in the industry as a whole for helping to create the characters the he and other actors have portrayed throughout film history.  He was amazing and everything he said came from the heart.

G'nite from tinsel-town,

Brian
 
 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

----- Original Message -----

From: Alexander Ruiz

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 10:59 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Timelines

I think what would have been better is, Leo landing on earth 100 years before Taylor. And starting the film as, In the 20th Century instead of 2029.

 

Now we have Leo landing on the shores of the Staue of Liberty 100 years before Taylor. (equel ending shocker) and a whole new awesome sequel to come.

 

That would tie in both films together, with Leo leaving just before Conquest occurs.

 

Damn you, FOX! You scewed it UP! :o)

 

Best.

Al

 

----- Original Message -----

From: veetus@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 12:29 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Timelines

  That's interesting. My idea for the remake was it ends with Wahlberg
leaving and arriving back on Earth where he finds Taylor and friends just
setting off on their adventures in the Forbidden Zone (using the same
"Forest Gump" technology. He says "Here we go again" and catches up to them.

                                                             - - - Jeff


----- Original Message -----
From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 12:40 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Timelines


> > Well, I guess this is something that separates POTA fans.  I think
> Zaius
> > feared Taylor simply because he knew man destroyed the world in the
> past and
> > would always be capable of it.  And I still believe there had to be
> an
> > original timeline (or history) that lead to the world Taylor lands
> in (in
> > 3978!) that would then allow the chimps to return to the past IN
> ORDER TO
> > SAVE THE WORLD!  Besides, the apes being made into slaves happens
> independent
> > of the chimp-o-nauts arriving in 1973 anyway, in fact have you ever
> thought
> > how strange it is that Cornelius tells the government that apes
> being made
> > into slaves will lead to man's overthrow, and yet the government
> lets it
> > happen anyway?  This is one of the many flaws in logic that makes
> it kind of
> > silly to try to correct it all as one perfectly round egg.  This
> > Humpty-Dumpty just don't fit together.
> >
> > -- Rory
>
> That's an interesting interpetation. But its just one interpetation,
> there are others and they are just as valid as yours. I've heard many
> including that Taylor and Brent came from a parallel earth on the
> other side of the galaxy since their space agency was ANSA not NASA
> as stated in Escape. But I've also heard logical explanations for the
> errors, everything from the chronometer on Taylor's ship being
> damaged when it crash and jumping ahead to the government becoming
> more repressive due to the slavery of apes in the free market
> fulfilling Cornelius' predictions.
> The original movie series was cut short so alot of mistakes and gaps
> were left. We all fill them in on our own and every interpetation is
> valid. Several years ago when the remake was in turnaround a friend
> of mine presented a treatment for a trilogy that would fill in all
> the gaps left from the first five. The third was the most interesting
> and involved scientists from an underground government think tank
> realizing the world was caught in a temporal loop and travelling to
> 3955 (using the same technology they used in Forest Gump to put them
> in to scenes from Beneath) in order to prevent Earth's destruction,
> therefore Cornelius and Zira won't be able to come back and give
> birth to Ceaser, starting the whole cycle again). It end with one of
> the scientists shooting the red level just as Taylor is about to pull
> it. Then a flash of light and it jumps ahead 30 years to Taylor
> giving a speech at Harvard about how far man has progressed in 2,000
> years. Sort of a bookend to his speech at the beginning of the first
> film.
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

----- Original Message -----

From: Brian

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 11:06 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Make-up Artist Guild Awards

Well folks, you'll be happy to hear that Rick Baker did get the 3rd Annual Make-up Guild Award tonight for Best Special Make-up in a feature film for Planet of the Apes 2001, beating out HANNIBAL and ALI.

There was also a great dedication to the late John Chambers by John Landis, who told some great stories of hanging out in the make-up lab at Fox while John was prepping Beneath.  Landis also brought a clip from SCHLOCK where Chambers played a local barber who was head of the National Guard.  Fun stuff.

Dustin Hoffman was also honored with the Barrymore Award for his career.  He graciously accepted the honor and thanked all of the make-up and hair people both in his career and in the industry as a whole for helping to create the characters the he and other actors have portrayed throughout film history.  He was amazing and everything he said came from the heart.

G'nite from tinsel-town,

Brian
 
 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

-----Original Message-----
From: ThyPentacle [agnosticdragon@...]
Sent: Monday, 18 February 2002 6:46

 

 

"You must walk thru darkness to find illumination."

> -----Original Message-----
> From: veetus@... [veetus@...]
> Sent: Monday, 18 February 2002 15:33

>
> - - - Jeff
>

----- Original Message -----

From: veetus@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 2:16 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Timelines

  Naw, they were trying to keep as far away from the originals as they could, except for all the "aping". But now I think they know the fans of the original aren't happy, that's why they're saying, "Oh, don't forget to read Boulle's book. It's a classic". I think we'll see some more olive branches around the time of the sequel. Maybe we WILL get some great "lost scenes" on DVD.                                                - - - Jeff

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Alexander Ruiz

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 10:59 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Timelines

I think what would have been better is, Leo landing on earth 100 years before Taylor. And starting the film as, In the 20th Century instead of 2029.

 

Now we have Leo landing on the shores of the Staue of Liberty 100 years before Taylor. (equel ending shocker) and a whole new awesome sequel to come.

 

That would tie in both films together, with Leo leaving just before Conquest occurs.

 

Damn you, FOX! You scewed it UP! :o)

 

Best.

Al

 

----- Original Message -----

From: veetus@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 12:29 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Timelines

  That's interesting. My idea for the remake was it ends with Wahlberg
leaving and arriving back on Earth where he finds Taylor and friends just
setting off on their adventures in the Forbidden Zone (using the same
"Forest Gump" technology. He says "Here we go again" and catches up to them.

                                                             - - - Jeff


----- Original Message -----
From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 12:40 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Timelines


> > Well, I guess this is something that separates POTA fans.  I think
> Zaius
> > feared Taylor simply because he knew man destroyed the world in the
> past and
> > would always be capable of it.  And I still believe there had to be
> an
> > original timeline (or history) that lead to the world Taylor lands
> in (in
> > 3978!) that would then allow the chimps to return to the past IN
> ORDER TO
> > SAVE THE WORLD!  Besides, the apes being made into slaves happens
> independent
> > of the chimp-o-nauts arriving in 1973 anyway, in fact have you ever
> thought
> > how strange it is that Cornelius tells the government that apes
> being made
> > into slaves will lead to man's overthrow, and yet the government
> lets it
> > happen anyway?  This is one of the many flaws in logic that makes
> it kind of
> > silly to try to correct it all as one perfectly round egg.  This
> > Humpty-Dumpty just don't fit together.
> >
> > -- Rory
>
> That's an interesting interpetation. But its just one interpetation,
> there are others and they are just as valid as yours. I've heard many
> including that Taylor and Brent came from a parallel earth on the
> other side of the galaxy since their space agency was ANSA not NASA
> as stated in Escape. But I've also heard logical explanations for the
> errors, everything from the chronometer on Taylor's ship being
> damaged when it crash and jumping ahead to the government becoming
> more repressive due to the slavery of apes in the free market
> fulfilling Cornelius' predictions.
> The original movie series was cut short so alot of mistakes and gaps
> were left. We all fill them in on our own and every interpetation is
> valid. Several years ago when the remake was in turnaround a friend
> of mine presented a treatment for a trilogy that would fill in all
> the gaps left from the first five. The third was the most interesting
> and involved scientists from an underground government think tank
> realizing the world was caught in a temporal loop and travelling to
> 3955 (using the same technology they used in Forest Gump to put them
> in to scenes from Beneath) in order to prevent Earth's destruction,
> therefore Cornelius and Zira won't be able to come back and give
> birth to Ceaser, starting the whole cycle again). It end with one of
> the scientists shooting the red level just as Taylor is about to pull
> it. Then a flash of light and it jumps ahead 30 years to Taylor
> giving a speech at Harvard about how far man has progressed in 2,000
> years. Sort of a bookend to his speech at the beginning of the first
> film.
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

----- Original Message -----

From: Brian

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 2:06 AM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Make-up Artist Guild Awards

Well folks, you'll be happy to hear that Rick Baker did get the 3rd Annual Make-up Guild Award tonight for Best Special Make-up in a feature film for Planet of the Apes 2001, beating out HANNIBAL and ALI.

There was also a great dedication to the late John Chambers by John Landis, who told some great stories of hanging out in the make-up lab at Fox while John was prepping Beneath.  Landis also brought a clip from SCHLOCK where Chambers played a local barber who was head of the National Guard.  Fun stuff.

Dustin Hoffman was also honored with the Barrymore Award for his career.  He graciously accepted the honor and thanked all of the make-up and hair people both in his career and in the industry as a whole for helping to create the characters the he and other actors have portrayed throughout film history.  He was amazing and everything he said came from the heart.

G'nite from tinsel-town,

Brian
 
 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

----- Original Message -----

From: veetus@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 2:51 AM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] DVDs (off topic)

    Fans of DVDs should check out the transcripts of www.hometheatreforum.com . There's a good one from last month with Van Ling, producer of the James Cameron and Episode 1 DVDs (Alex will like it). They are pushing back the "True Lies" Special Ed. because of 9/11 (Ah-nuld said "True Lies 2" is back in rewrites for the same reason). Past talks include one with John Landis and they regularly have studios talk about upcoming product. I check in regularly.

                                                             - - - Jeff

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Brian

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 11:06 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Make-up Artist Guild Awards

Well folks, you'll be happy to hear that Rick Baker did get the 3rd Annual Make-up Guild Award tonight for Best Special Make-up in a feature film for Planet of the Apes 2001, beating out HANNIBAL and ALI.

There was also a great dedication to the late John Chambers by John Landis, who told some great stories of hanging out in the make-up lab at Fox while John was prepping Beneath.  Landis also brought a clip from SCHLOCK where Chambers played a local barber who was head of the National Guard.  Fun stuff.

Dustin Hoffman was also honored with the Barrymore Award for his career.  He graciously accepted the honor and thanked all of the make-up and hair people both in his career and in the industry as a whole for helping to create the characters the he and other actors have portrayed throughout film history.  He was amazing and everything he said came from the heart.

G'nite from tinsel-town,

Brian
 
 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

> >
> > Here's what Hassein had to say in "Escape", as written by Mr.

> > "... time is like a freeway with an infinite number of lanes, all

> > from the past into the future; however, not into the same future".
> > And Virgil says in "Battle", "I believe that time is like an

> > motorway with an infinite number of lanes all running from the

> > the
> > future".
> > Doesn't sound like a circular point of view to me.
> >
> > - - -

>
> Exactly. So, my belief is that the moment the chimps appeared in

> earth jumped to another lane or highway of time, and the future

> different and the world might not end in 3955. AND, believe it or

> is my last word on the subject.
>
> -- Rory

----- Original Message -----

From: james611102

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 9:21 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Out of the mouths of babes

I'll quote Mr. Dehn directly:
"The whole thing has become a very logical development in the form of
a circle", explained Paul Dehn, "I have a complete chronology of the
time circle mapped out". From 'Evolution=MC2' by Paul A. Woods in The
Planet of the Apes Chronicles.

 

B

veetus@... wrote:

    Brian - - -   What did Baker say when he won?                                                   - - - Jeff  

----- Original Message -----

From: Brian

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 11:06 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Make-up Artist Guild Awards

 Well folks, you'll be happy to hear that Rick Baker did get the 3rd Annual Make-up Guild Award tonight for Best Special Make-up in a feature film for Planet of the Apes 2001, beating out HANNIBAL and ALI.

There was also a great dedication to the late John Chambers by John Landis, who told some great stories of hanging out in the make-up lab at Fox while John was prepping Beneath.  Landis also brought a clip from SCHLOCK where Chambers played a local barber who was head of the National Guard.  Fun stuff.

Dustin Hoffman was also honored with the Barrymore Award for his career.  He graciously accepted the honor and thanked all of the make-up and hair people both in his career and in the industry as a whole for helping to create the characters the he and other actors have portrayed throughout film history.  He was amazing and everything he said came from the heart.

G'nite from tinsel-town,

Brian
 
 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Michael Whitty wrote:

I understand tour enthusiasm (thank god we have some new members generating conversation topics), but I cannot see the need for a group for the topic....but I wish you well!!!!!

I agree, Mike.  Especially when all anyone has to do is contact Medicom for the answers to the questions they keep speculating about.

Now, back to the endless space/time continuum debate...

B

B

Alexander Ruiz wrote:

 Did Baker say anything about the Oscar nods? I still can't believe the academy shut him out like that. I was in shock. Best.Al

----- Original Message -----

From: Brian

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 10:20 AM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Make-up Artist Guild Awards

Not a peep (on stage),  He was very dignified and polite.

B

Alexander Ruiz wrote:

 Did Baker say anything about the Oscar nods? I still can't believe the academy shut him out like that. I was in shock. Best.Al

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

-----Original Message-----
From: Sammo Law [sammo_of_borg@...]
Sent: Tuesday, 19 February 2002 7:53
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Out of the mouths of babes

though caesar thought that the future could be changed; he sat by his dying son hoping that he would live.  as we all know, this did not happen

-Sammo_of_Borg

>From:

>Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com

>To:

>Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Out of the mouths of babes

>Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 21:02:51 -0800

>

> Here's what Hassein had to say in "Escape", as written by Mr. Paul Dehn:

>"... time is like a freeway with an infinite number of lanes, all leading

>from the past into the future; however, not into the same future".

> And Virgil says in "Battle", "I believe that time is like an endless

>motorway with an infinite number of lanes all running from the past into the

>future".

> Doesn't sound like a circular point of view to me.

>

> - - - Jeff

>

>

>

>----- Original Message -----

>From: "patrickmichaeltilton"

>To:

>Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 7:15 AM

>Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Timelines

>

>

> > --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" wrote:

> > Well there's my point - just because it makes real sense that there

> > were 2 timelines, it doesn't mean that was the intention.

> >

> > Patrick, what do you have to say about "sci-fi fanatics who spend

> > decades on endless theorizing."?

> >

> > Michael

> >

> >

> > Michael, I'll be the first to admit that as far as POTA goes, I myself

> > AM a fanatic, and HAVE spent "decades on endless theorizing"! Not just

> > because I like to waste my time, mind you; I'm writing a humongo novel

> > based on the 5 films & 14 TV episodes... and I want my over-arching

> > plot to make sense of ALL the details given in the filmed adventures.

> > Because Dehn (and others) made more than a few "flubs", this has

> > required me to spend a great deal of time "unflubbing" the POTA saga.

> > As for the "timeline" problem, well, I prefer the single circular

> > theory; in BATTLE, we have a "mutant" community in possession of an

> > Alpha Omega bomb... which we all KNOW will be present in 3955 in

> > BENEATH--had Mendez and Alma DISMANTLED the Alpha Omega bomb, then I

> > might consider "time" to have been altered (via Hasslein's--and

> > Virgil's--theory about "lanes" that can be changed: "It's a blind

> > choice... but you CAN change lanes..."). The ending of BATTLE, circa

> > 2670, depicts an ambiguous future for ape/human inter-relations: a

> > chimp child yanks on a human child's pony-tail... the human girl

> > pushes back ("It's a fight!")... the Lawgiver says that "perhaps only

> > the Dead" know the Future... and the statue of Caesar--who wanted to

> > change the Future to prevent the destruction of the Earth--sheds

> > tears! Not exactly a rosy outlook. I think it's very plausible that

> > this "edenic" society could/would devolve into the human-enslaving

> > simian society run by Zaius and Urko 415 years later. All it takes is

> > an unhealthy dose of intolerant organized religion...

> >

> > Patrick Michael Tilton

> > EARTH-TIME 2-17-2002

> >

> >

> > > > -----Original Message-----

> > From: james611102 [Hardguy718@a...]

> >

> > Well, at least there's one more who's smart enough to realize the film

> > series creates two timelines!

> >

> > -- Rory

> >

> > Come on!!! If you read any of Paul Dehn's interviews before he died

> > (some are in the book Planet of the Apes Chronicles); he states very

> > cleary the goal was to create one circular timeline. Remember the

> > movies were made for the average movie goer not sci-fi fanatics who

> > spend decades on endless theorizing.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

> >

> >

>

>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: LordTZer0@... [LordTZer0@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, 19 February 2002 9:05
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Medicoms
>
>
> You said Virgil twice, but a very thorough list!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

>>

----- Original Message -----

From: CheeseGOTAS@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 10:11 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Timelines

In a message dated 2/18/02 9:10:22 PM Central Standard Time, MTotsky@...
writes:

<< << baby milo and caesar are the same person, >>

Actually, neither one of them are people   ;)

  >>

How dare you!  Apes are people too!!

-Joe


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

--- In pota@y..., "ThyPentacle" <agnosticdragon@y...> wrote:
> Or maybe people are Apes? Hmmm. :o)
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: CheeseGOTAS@a...
> To: pota@y...
> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 10:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Timelines
>
>
> In a message dated 2/18/02 9:10:22 PM Central Standard Time,
MTotsky@a...
> writes:
>
> << << baby milo and caesar are the same person, >>
>
> Actually, neither one of them are people ;)
>
> >>
>
> How dare you! Apes are people too!!
>
> -Joe
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.

----- Original Message -----

From: Sammo Law

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 12:55 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Timelines

when you say "and Milo in 'Escape,'" do you mean Dr. Milo or baby Milo?  baby milo and caesar are the same person, if you were under the impression that they werent.  if not, i appologize

-Sammo_of_Borg

>From:

>Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com

>To:

>Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Timelines

>Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 21:24:02 -0800

>

> I'm sure the government keeps Cornelius' testimony all nice and secret. As for repeating the same mistakes, it's all ego. That won't happen with them. That's why they rule with an iron fist and are so paranoid. That's the whole point of killing Caesar (and Milo in "Escape"). To change the future. But since they didn't maybe that lends credo to the circular theory. Fascinating! - - - - Jeff

>

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Haristas@...

> To: pota@yahoogroups.com

> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 8:25 AM

> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Timelines

>

>

> In a message dated 2/17/02 11:10:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

>

>

>

> Of course there is equal evidence to support 2 timelines. But both

> points of view are valid.

>

>

>

>

>

> Well, I guess this is something that separates POTA fans. I think Zaius feared Taylor simply because he knew man destroyed the world in the past and would always be capable of it. And I still believe there had to be an original timeline (or history) that lead to the world Taylor lands in (in 3978!) that would then allow the chimps to return to the past IN ORDER TO SAVE THE WORLD! Besides, the apes being made into slaves happens independent of the chimp-o-nauts arriving in 1973 anyway, in fact have you ever thought how strange it is that Cornelius tells the government that apes being made into slaves will lead to man's overthrow, and yet the government lets it happen anyway? This is one of the many flaws in logic that makes it kind of silly to try to correct it all as one perfectly round egg. This Humpty-Dumpty just don't fit together.

>

> -- Rory

> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

>

----- Original Message -----

From: Sammo Law

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 12:52 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Out of the mouths of babes

though caesar thought that the future could be changed; he sat by his dying son hoping that he would live.  as we all know, this did not happen

-Sammo_of_Borg

>From:

>Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com

>To:

>Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Out of the mouths of babes

>Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 21:02:51 -0800

>

> Here's what Hassein had to say in "Escape", as written by Mr. Paul Dehn:

>"... time is like a freeway with an infinite number of lanes, all leading

>from the past into the future; however, not into the same future".

> And Virgil says in "Battle", "I believe that time is like an endless

>motorway with an infinite number of lanes all running from the past into the

>future".

> Doesn't sound like a circular point of view to me.

>

> - - - Jeff

>

>

>

>----- Original Message -----

>From: "patrickmichaeltilton"

>To:

>Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 7:15 AM

>Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Timelines

>

>

> > --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" wrote:

> > Well there's my point - just because it makes real sense that there

> > were 2 timelines, it doesn't mean that was the intention.

> >

> > Patrick, what do you have to say about "sci-fi fanatics who spend

> > decades on endless theorizing."?

> >

> > Michael

> >

> >

> > Michael, I'll be the first to admit that as far as POTA goes, I myself

> > AM a fanatic, and HAVE spent "decades on endless theorizing"! Not just

> > because I like to waste my time, mind you; I'm writing a humongo novel

> > based on the 5 films & 14 TV episodes... and I want my over-arching

> > plot to make sense of ALL the details given in the filmed adventures.

> > Because Dehn (and others) made more than a few "flubs", this has

> > required me to spend a great deal of time "unflubbing" the POTA saga.

> > As for the "timeline" problem, well, I prefer the single circular

> > theory; in BATTLE, we have a "mutant" community in possession of an

> > Alpha Omega bomb... which we all KNOW will be present in 3955 in

> > BENEATH--had Mendez and Alma DISMANTLED the Alpha Omega bomb, then I

> > might consider "time" to have been altered (via Hasslein's--and

> > Virgil's--theory about "lanes" that can be changed: "It's a blind

> > choice... but you CAN change lanes..."). The ending of BATTLE, circa

> > 2670, depicts an ambiguous future for ape/human inter-relations: a

> > chimp child yanks on a human child's pony-tail... the human girl

> > pushes back ("It's a fight!")... the Lawgiver says that "perhaps only

> > the Dead" know the Future... and the statue of Caesar--who wanted to

> > change the Future to prevent the destruction of the Earth--sheds

> > tears! Not exactly a rosy outlook. I think it's very plausible that

> > this "edenic" society could/would devolve into the human-enslaving

> > simian society run by Zaius and Urko 415 years later. All it takes is

> > an unhealthy dose of intolerant organized religion...

> >

> > Patrick Michael Tilton

> > EARTH-TIME 2-17-2002

> >

> >

> > > > -----Original Message-----

> > From: james611102 [Hardguy718@a...]

> >

> > Well, at least there's one more who's smart enough to realize the film

> > series creates two timelines!

> >

> > -- Rory

> >

> > Come on!!! If you read any of Paul Dehn's interviews before he died

> > (some are in the book Planet of the Apes Chronicles); he states very

> > cleary the goal was to create one circular timeline. Remember the

> > movies were made for the average movie goer not sci-fi fanatics who

> > spend decades on endless theorizing.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

> >

> >

>

>

----- Original Message -----

From: veetus@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 12:04 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Out of the mouths of babes

  Maybe his son's dying altered the future and prevented the destruction of Earth in 3955. If he'd lived he might have been as tall as a king but he could've been a despot. You know how kids get.

 

                                                               - - - Jeff

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Sammo Law

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 12:52 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Out of the mouths of babes

though caesar thought that the future could be changed; he sat by his dying son hoping that he would live.  as we all know, this did not happen

-Sammo_of_Borg

>From:

>Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com

>To:

>Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Out of the mouths of babes

>Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 21:02:51 -0800

>

> Here's what Hassein had to say in "Escape", as written by Mr. Paul Dehn:

>"... time is like a freeway with an infinite number of lanes, all leading

>from the past into the future; however, not into the same future".

> And Virgil says in "Battle", "I believe that time is like an endless

>motorway with an infinite number of lanes all running from the past into the

>future".

> Doesn't sound like a circular point of view to me.

>

> - - - Jeff

>

>

>

>----- Original Message -----

>From: "patrickmichaeltilton"

>To:

>Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 7:15 AM

>Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Timelines

>

>

> > --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" wrote:

> > Well there's my point - just because it makes real sense that there

> > were 2 timelines, it doesn't mean that was the intention.

> >

> > Patrick, what do you have to say about "sci-fi fanatics who spend

> > decades on endless theorizing."?

> >

> > Michael

> >

> >

> > Michael, I'll be the first to admit that as far as POTA goes, I myself

> > AM a fanatic, and HAVE spent "decades on endless theorizing"! Not just

> > because I like to waste my time, mind you; I'm writing a humongo novel

> > based on the 5 films & 14 TV episodes... and I want my over-arching

> > plot to make sense of ALL the details given in the filmed adventures.

> > Because Dehn (and others) made more than a few "flubs", this has

> > required me to spend a great deal of time "unflubbing" the POTA saga.

> > As for the "timeline" problem, well, I prefer the single circular

> > theory; in BATTLE, we have a "mutant" community in possession of an

> > Alpha Omega bomb... which we all KNOW will be present in 3955 in

> > BENEATH--had Mendez and Alma DISMANTLED the Alpha Omega bomb, then I

> > might consider "time" to have been altered (via Hasslein's--and

> > Virgil's--theory about "lanes" that can be changed: "It's a blind

> > choice... but you CAN change lanes..."). The ending of BATTLE, circa

> > 2670, depicts an ambiguous future for ape/human inter-relations: a

> > chimp child yanks on a human child's pony-tail... the human girl

> > pushes back ("It's a fight!")... the Lawgiver says that "perhaps only

> > the Dead" know the Future... and the statue of Caesar--who wanted to

> > change the Future to prevent the destruction of the Earth--sheds

> > tears! Not exactly a rosy outlook. I think it's very plausible that

> > this "edenic" society could/would devolve into the human-enslaving

> > simian society run by Zaius and Urko 415 years later. All it takes is

> > an unhealthy dose of intolerant organized religion...

> >

> > Patrick Michael Tilton

> > EARTH-TIME 2-17-2002

> >

> >

> > > > -----Original Message-----

> > From: james611102 [Hardguy718@a...]

> >

> > Well, at least there's one more who's smart enough to realize the film

> > series creates two timelines!

> >

> > -- Rory

> >

> > Come on!!! If you read any of Paul Dehn's interviews before he died

> > (some are in the book Planet of the Apes Chronicles); he states very

> > cleary the goal was to create one circular timeline. Remember the

> > movies were made for the average movie goer not sci-fi fanatics who

> > spend decades on endless theorizing.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

> >

> >

>

>

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

----- Original Message -----

From: Michael Whitty

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 3:27 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Out of the mouths of babes

I think the whole idea is that the "circular" theory not be ruled out completely, so as to allow possibilities in sequels.

 

While Battle was advertised as the final chapter, it was still open enough so as to allow either path to be taken in the event of a sequel.  I think this was as intended.

 

I hope Fox do a survey before they make another POTA movie and ask questions like "Do you want another movie in the original series?" and "Do you want to see some more of the original characters?"

 

The next logical place to go is to after the final narration in Battle and to look around the whole planet - maybe in South Africa the humans are being genetically altered to lose their powers of speech.

 

I can't see this happening though.

 

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: Sammo Law [sammo_of_borg@...]
Sent: Tuesday, 19 February 2002 7:53
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Out of the mouths of babes

though caesar thought that the future could be changed; he sat by his dying son hoping that he would live.  as we all know, this did not happen

-Sammo_of_Borg

>From:

>Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com

>To:

>Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Out of the mouths of babes

>Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 21:02:51 -0800

>

> Here's what Hassein had to say in "Escape", as written by Mr. Paul Dehn:

>"... time is like a freeway with an infinite number of lanes, all leading

>from the past into the future; however, not into the same future".

> And Virgil says in "Battle", "I believe that time is like an endless

>motorway with an infinite number of lanes all running from the past into the

>future".

> Doesn't sound like a circular point of view to me.

>

> - - - Jeff

>

>

>

>----- Original Message -----

>From: "patrickmichaeltilton"

>To:

>Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 7:15 AM

>Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Timelines

>

>

> > --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" wrote:

> > Well there's my point - just because it makes real sense that there

> > were 2 timelines, it doesn't mean that was the intention.

> >

> > Patrick, what do you have to say about "sci-fi fanatics who spend

> > decades on endless theorizing."?

> >

> > Michael

> >

> >

> > Michael, I'll be the first to admit that as far as POTA goes, I myself

> > AM a fanatic, and HAVE spent "decades on endless theorizing"! Not just

> > because I like to waste my time, mind you; I'm writing a humongo novel

> > based on the 5 films & 14 TV episodes... and I want my over-arching

> > plot to make sense of ALL the details given in the filmed adventures.

> > Because Dehn (and others) made more than a few "flubs", this has

> > required me to spend a great deal of time "unflubbing" the POTA saga.

> > As for the "timeline" problem, well, I prefer the single circular

> > theory; in BATTLE, we have a "mutant" community in possession of an

> > Alpha Omega bomb... which we all KNOW will be present in 3955 in

> > BENEATH--had Mendez and Alma DISMANTLED the Alpha Omega bomb, then I

> > might consider "time" to have been altered (via Hasslein's--and

> > Virgil's--theory about "lanes" that can be changed: "It's a blind

> > choice... but you CAN change lanes..."). The ending of BATTLE, circa

> > 2670, depicts an ambiguous future for ape/human inter-relations: a

> > chimp child yanks on a human child's pony-tail... the human girl

> > pushes back ("It's a fight!")... the Lawgiver says that "perhaps only

> > the Dead" know the Future... and the statue of Caesar--who wanted to

> > change the Future to prevent the destruction of the Earth--sheds

> > tears! Not exactly a rosy outlook. I think it's very plausible that

> > this "edenic" society could/would devolve into the human-enslaving

> > simian society run by Zaius and Urko 415 years later. All it takes is

> > an unhealthy dose of intolerant organized religion...

> >

> > Patrick Michael Tilton

> > EARTH-TIME 2-17-2002

> >

> >

> > > > -----Original Message-----

> > From: james611102 [Hardguy718@a...]

> >

> > Well, at least there's one more who's smart enough to realize the film

> > series creates two timelines!

> >

> > -- Rory

> >

> > Come on!!! If you read any of Paul Dehn's interviews before he died

> > (some are in the book Planet of the Apes Chronicles); he states very

> > cleary the goal was to create one circular timeline. Remember the

> > movies were made for the average movie goer not sci-fi fanatics who

> > spend decades on endless theorizing.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

> >

> >

>

>

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veetus@... wrote:

    "Ape" fans are small potatoes. They need to please everybody. And what "everybody" seems to want is believable sci-fi. That's why those cartoon sci-fi movies are flopping ("Final Fantasy", "Titan A.E.", "Iron Giant"). They want live-action sci-fi and they want it believable with lots of twists." Let's twist again, like we did in '68". Everybody sing!                                                          - - - - Jeff