.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 10:12 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Ape-ologies

In a message dated 3/10/02 12:36:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

Well if you'd like to write a letter the correct person would be:

Michael Dunn
Exec. V.P.-Mktg. & Sls. 
20th Century Fox Home Entertainment
2121 Ave. of the Stars, 25th Fl.
Los Angeles, CA 90067

Thanks, James.  I will write that letter and I'll let you guys read after I do so.  I'll mostly try to tie it in with when Fox gets around to doing a 5 Star Edition of PLANET on DVD.  That Statue cover simply must go.  I'll try to be civil with the guy, otherwise it'll never get to his desk.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

Yes, I heard the UK editions are anamorphic and the US versions will be.
The US "Evolution" set was Fox's last non-anamorphic release (they got hip
to it , baby). - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Maxwell" <alan@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Planet Of The Apes] Battle enigma


> <Haristas@...> wrote:
> > they've got some good things to say about "The Evolution" Boxed Set.
"The
> > transfers. . . are brand new and stunning. Some have grumbled about
this
> box
> > set for its lack of anamorphic transfers or and abundance of extras.
>
> Although still pretty bereft of any extras, I've heard that the UK release
> of the box set featured anamorphic transfers. I've not seen them myself,
can
> any of my fellow Brits confirm?
>
> Alan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Bill Blake says that after the TV show wasn't doing so well, they actually
went to Gene Roddenberry and he proposed coming back in the 2nd season with
a storyline closer to the original, including the characters Cornelius and
Zira. Bill says he and Paula auditioned for the roles at Gene's house.
Believe it or not, but Bill does have a letter of recommendation signed by
Gene, I saw it myself. But CBS just wanted to be finished with this monkey
business. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 11:21 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Original vs. Altered Timeline


> I agree with you about Conquest and Escape being the only decent
> sequels. And the TV show is very painful to watch at time but it's
> still better than the remake.
> I was wondering if you could ask Joe Russo a question for me. I
> remember reading an article back in early '74 about one of the
> concepts being considered for the TV series was to pick things up
> directly after Battle. Roddy would play Caeser. Fred Williamson was
> going to play MacDonald and Ricardo Montalban would appear in
> flashbacks as Armando, ala Kung Fu. I don't remember where I read
> this, it was almost 30 years ago and no one I know in the industry
> ever heard of it. Maybe the writer at the time was just making this
> up but I'm wondering if Russo ever came across this in his research.
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> > In a message dated 3/10/02 12:33:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > JamesA1102@a... writes:
> >
> >
> > > Just curious Rory are there any of the sequels that you like or
> at
> > > least despise the least. For me its Conquest. While not the
> original
> > > it did have a unique look to it and I really liked Don Murray's
> > > performance.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > I can tolerate ESCAPE (which is actually a good 'little' film), and
> to a
> > lesser extent CONQUEST (which could have been very good if it had
> the budget
> > it needs), but BENEATH, BATTLE, and the TV show are very painful
> for me to
> > watch and kind of depress me. I appreciate certain elements in
> BENEATH, but
> > for the most part that movie is such a mess and so completely goes
> off the
> > deep end that I truly wish it had never been made. It bummed me
> out when I
> > first saw it in 1970 and that hasn't changed. BATTLE is just so
> far removed
> > from what continues to appeal to me in the original movie that I
> can hardly
> > stand to even acknowledge it exists. I try to do as Roddy McDowall
> did and
> > just forget about it, but ironically I am interested in getting
> this DVD of
> > BATTLE from Alex, but that has more to do with the APES collector
> that I am
> > than anything else. The TV show is so pathetic that I just ignore
> it -- I
> > got so bored looking at it that I still haven't finished watching
> the DVDs.
> > The cartoon show, for some reason, doesn't bother me because it's
> just this
> > mutant sort of thing and was meant for the kiddies. It's no good,
> but
> > harmless. The new movie was a total disaster that I think in the
> fullness of
> > time will show you all that the APES concept is over. Fox is going
> to bury
> > it with no sequel. So, for me there is only the original that's
> worth
> > hanging on to, that and the Boulle novel.
> >
> > -- Rory
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Interesting. I also read once that CBS asked Roddenberry to throw
some apes into a show he was developing at the time called Genisis
II, I think. He responded and suggested an aquatic character to give
the show an underwater element. When he realized they had took him
seriously he knew it was over.

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> Bill Blake says that after the TV show wasn't doing so well, they
actually
> went to Gene Roddenberry and he proposed coming back in the 2nd
season with
> a storyline closer to the original, including the characters
Cornelius and
> Zira. Bill says he and Paula auditioned for the roles at Gene's
house.
> Believe it or not, but Bill does have a letter of recommendation
signed by
> Gene, I saw it myself. But CBS just wanted to be finished with this
monkey
> business. - - - Jeff

.html In a message dated 3/10/02 3:52:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

I'll tell you his name when you tell me what penal colony your
ansestors escaped from. Go have a Foster's and throw another shirmp
on the barbie.

Hey, Michael, let's you and I travel up to New York.  I'll hold this clown down while you sit on his face and expel a torrent of Foster's induced butt gas up his nostrils.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .
<.html

I wasn't trying to be ironic, moronic maybe, buy not ironic. LOL

--- In pota@y..., "Alan Maxwell" <alan@a...> wrote:
> "james611102" <JamesA1102@a...> wrote:
> > For once Rory we're in total agreement. One of the basics in
writing,
> > and filmmaking, for that matter is to keep things simple or you
lose
> > verisimilitude.
>
> Was that irony deliberate?!?
>
> Alan

.html In a message dated 3/10/02 2:30:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

I'm starting to warm up to you James.

That Rory is such a pig.

Michael

Okay, it's been so long since I saw the Paul Hogan Show that I can't say I really remember much of it.  I just don't remember laughing much.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .
<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 3/10/02 2:37:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

I was wondering if you could ask Joe Russo a question for me. I
remember reading an article back in early '74 about one of the
concepts being considered for the TV series was to pick things up
directly after Battle. Roddy would play Caeser. Fred Williamson was
going to play MacDonald and Ricardo Montalban would appear in
flashbacks as Armando, ala Kung Fu. I don't remember where I read
this, it was almost 30 years ago and no one I know in the industry
ever heard of it. Maybe the writer at the time was just making this
up but I'm wondering if Russo ever came across this in his research.

I'll forward it to him.  He's out in California right now where he might be meeting our own Jeff Krueger.  I've never heard this story before, but who knows?

-- Rory<.html

Like I said I read in 30 years ago. Maybe the writer was just
speculating on how he would do the series.

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 3/10/02 2:37:53 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> JamesA1102@a... writes:
>
>
> > I was wondering if you could ask Joe Russo a question for me. I
> > remember reading an article back in early '74 about one of the
> > concepts being considered for the TV series was to pick things up
> > directly after Battle. Roddy would play Caeser. Fred Williamson
was
> > going to play MacDonald and Ricardo Montalban would appear in
> > flashbacks as Armando, ala Kung Fu. I don't remember where I read
> > this, it was almost 30 years ago and no one I know in the
industry
> > ever heard of it. Maybe the writer at the time was just making
this
> > up but I'm wondering if Russo ever came across this in his
research.
> >
> >
> >
>
> I'll forward it to him. He's out in California right now where he
might be
> meeting our own Jeff Krueger. I've never heard this story before,
but who
> knows?
>
> -- Rory

.htmlIn a message dated 3/10/02 2:38:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

You can't argue with success. "Apes" was the money picture and it worked (though it would have made even more money if people actually liked it). "Moulin Reem" was the prestige picture and it worked (lots of Oscar noms, Fox is getting pats on the back for taking a risk and it was profitable to boot). Can't argue with success there.

                                                         - - - Jeff



I can argue with it.  How about there's more things in life than making money and winning Oscars?  But then Hollywood doesn't give a shit about anything else, eh Veetus?

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 3/10/02 2:53:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

  Hey, is this the guy we talk to about ideas for the 5-star edition, the director's cuts, etc?         - - Jeff

Michael Dunn
Exec. V.P.-Mktg. & Sls. 
20th Century Fox Home Entertainment
2121 Ave. of the Stars, 25th Fl.
Los Angeles, CA 90067

Hey, maybe it is.  Why don't everybody here just write to this guy?  And be sure to mention that you hate the Statue cover.

-- Rory
<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 3/10/02 3:03:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

  Bill Blake says that after the TV show wasn't doing so well, they actually
went to Gene Roddenberry and he proposed coming back in the 2nd season with
a storyline closer to the original, including the characters Cornelius and
Zira. Bill says he and Paula auditioned for the roles at Gene's house.
Believe it or not, but Bill does have a letter of recommendation signed by
Gene, I saw it myself. But CBS just wanted to be finished with this monkey
business.                                    - - - Jeff

Who's the 'they' that went to Gene Roddenberry?  Roddenbury involved with APES.  That seems a bit bizarre, but may not if you ever saw his "Earth II"series with John Saxon.  I wonder what Roddenbury thought of APES?

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 3/10/02 3:49:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

Oh, but then he might think we are childish.

And he might get his imaginary friends to hurt us!

And he probably doesn't even live in New York!

Michael



And he might try to lick your. . . .Toodles!

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 3/10/02 4:05:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

Like I said I read in 30 years ago. Maybe the writer was just
speculating on how he would do the series.

Well, somebody at Fox that was developing the series idea did come out to look at the treehouse BATTLE sets for use in the TV show, but then they blew them all up for the movie.

-- Rory<.html

Aaarighty Ape Fans!
The Epic Music Video: RULE THE PLANET, is complete!

Here are the details:

The video is 8 minutes and 27 seconds long and in mpeg 1 320X240(stanadard
format) so the size has been reduced to only 28 megs.
It is at low res, the picture a tiny dark and in mono sound. (that was the
best I could do, but never the less it's in very good quality)

Latter I will have the VCD version of it at 87 megs and in the best video
quality and in stereo for those who have Fast access on the internet and
want to burn it on a VCD and enjoy watching it on your DVD players.

The 28 meg version of RULE THE PLANET WILL BE ONLINE AT 9:00 PM tonight
Eastern Standard Time.

And the 87 meg VCD version will be online later in the week.

Don't miss RULE THE PLANET.

Best.
Al







_____

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:

>> And he might try to lick your. . . .Toodles!
>
> -- Rory

EEEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Patrick, here are some tips to make your 448 line posts less
confusing.
(1) Mark your own text separate from the other guy's text.
(2) Don't take out the marks the other person added to separate their
text from your text.

*** Point taken. Generally, whenever I try to "reply" to a prior
posting, the original text is littered with ">" marks, and I try to
clean the original up first before starting in with my "reply". From
now on, I'll do what I've just done for THIS paragraph: add three
stars [ *** ] before I put in my addition. Okay?

>CONQUEST and BATTLE (and the TV series) take place in California, and
>at some point AFTER the TV series, the majority of the Ape society
>(perhaps because of a combination of natural disasters and race wars)
>migrates FROM the California area TO the New York City area (an

Okay, the people from both the mutant and ape city cultures trekked
across the entire continent from California to New York for some
reason, with the mutants somehow lugging a nuclear bomb along the
whole way. In an unbelievable coincidence, both cultures begin and
end up only a few days of walking distance away from each other. But
maybe everybody wanted to be near the Statue of Liberty. Did you
write the Marvel timeline? You're a menace to society.

-Tom

*** Hey, ONE trek across North America is better than TWO; see one of
my more recent posting-replys to Rory, where I show that if you
include the TV show as "canon", then the 3085 group either was an
outgrowth of the NEARBY "Caesar group" (i.e. my scenario, CONQUEST and
BATTLE in California), or you somehow have an EAST coast "Caesar
group" in the early-21st century migrating out to the TV-show
California area by 3085. That's the 1st migration of the 2 (the "Rory
interpretation" we might as well call it), since the 3085 apes have
the SAME clothing styles as the BATTLE apes do, and had to have
inherited that style... but across four smegging time zones? Yeesh!
The second "Rory" migration would be from 3085-California to 3955-East
Coast, since one Zaius is "in charge" in Central City, and HIS
DESCENDANT--also named "Zaius"--is "in charge" in Ape City. There's no
two ways about it: the TV-Zaius has to be an ancestor of the PLANET/
BENEATH-Zaius, and the former was in California, whilst the latter was
near NYC.
You seem to prefer the "two migrations" theory over just "one
migration" that my scenario calls for.
No, I didn't write the Marvel timeline--and I only agree with some of
it (I've developed my own--but, then again, I'm not trying to "fit in"
the Marvel stories "Terror on the POTA", "Evolution's Nightmare", etc.
Only the 5 films and the 14 TV episodes.).
Me, a "menace" to society? I was thinking of calling YOU a "walking
pestilence"... but that'd be mean!

Patrick Michael Tilton
EARTH-TIME 3-10-2002

Well if you'd like to write a letter the correct person would be:

Michael Dunn
Exec. V.P.-Mktg. & Sls.
20th Century Fox Home Entertainment
2121 Ave. of the Stars, 25th Fl.
Los Angeles, CA 90067

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 3/10/02 11:08:22 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> JamesA1102@a... writes:
>
>
> > No he left FOX in the late 80s went to Disney for a while and is
now
> > at Universal.
> > I agree with you about the cover. Very stupid move. It's like
putting
> > a picture of Norman Bates on the cover of Psycho.
> >
>
> No, it's more like putting the sled with rosebud on it on the cover
of
> CITIZEN KANE. It actually is that outrageous a piece of disrespect
to a
> cinema classic, and if I only knew who to yell about it to at Fox
without
> wasting my time, I'd give them such a tongue lashing as you guys
have yet to
> hear from me on any other subject!
>
> -- Rory

You know I'm still shocked that a film like Moulin Rouge is winning
all sorts of awards. Standards have gone so far down these days.

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 3/10/02 3:29:46 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> JamesA1102@a... writes:
>
>
> > They also wrote Star Trek VI which wasn't too bad and William
Broyles
> > who shares screen credit with them wrote one of my all time
> > favorites 'Apollo 13'. Personally I still blame Tim Burton for
what a
> > mess the new film turned out to be.
> >
> >
> >
>
> I blame higher-ups at Fox who also greenlighted MOULIN ROUGE and
think that's
> what kind of movies people want to see. That speaks "reems" as to
what kind
> of mentality we're dealing with here. (Get it? "Reems")
>
> -- Rory

You should read the timeline in the book "Planet of the Apes
Chronicles". The author says he had more background material
available than Marvel did.

--- In pota@y..., "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@y...>
wrote:

> Patrick, here are some tips to make your 448 line posts less
> confusing.
> (1) Mark your own text separate from the other guy's text.
> (2) Don't take out the marks the other person added to separate

their

> text from your text.
>
> *** Point taken. Generally, whenever I try to "reply" to a prior
> posting, the original text is littered with ">" marks, and I try to
> clean the original up first before starting in with my "reply".

From

> now on, I'll do what I've just done for THIS paragraph: add three
> stars [ *** ] before I put in my addition. Okay?
>
> >CONQUEST and BATTLE (and the TV series) take place in California,

and

> >at some point AFTER the TV series, the majority of the Ape society
> >(perhaps because of a combination of natural disasters and race

wars)

> >migrates FROM the California area TO the New York City area (an
>
> Okay, the people from both the mutant and ape city cultures trekked
> across the entire continent from California to New York for some
> reason, with the mutants somehow lugging a nuclear bomb along the
> whole way. In an unbelievable coincidence, both cultures begin and
> end up only a few days of walking distance away from each other.

But

> maybe everybody wanted to be near the Statue of Liberty. Did you
> write the Marvel timeline? You're a menace to society.
>
> -Tom
>
> *** Hey, ONE trek across North America is better than TWO; see one

of

> my more recent posting-replys to Rory, where I show that if you
> include the TV show as "canon", then the 3085 group either was an
> outgrowth of the NEARBY "Caesar group" (i.e. my scenario, CONQUEST

and

> BATTLE in California), or you somehow have an EAST coast "Caesar
> group" in the early-21st century migrating out to the TV-show
> California area by 3085. That's the 1st migration of the 2

(the "Rory

> interpretation" we might as well call it), since the 3085 apes have
> the SAME clothing styles as the BATTLE apes do, and had to have
> inherited that style... but across four smegging time zones? Yeesh!
> The second "Rory" migration would be from 3085-California to 3955-

East

> Coast, since one Zaius is "in charge" in Central City, and HIS
> DESCENDANT--also named "Zaius"--is "in charge" in Ape City. There's

no

> two ways about it: the TV-Zaius has to be an ancestor of the PLANET/
> BENEATH-Zaius, and the former was in California, whilst the latter

was

> near NYC.
> You seem to prefer the "two migrations" theory over just "one
> migration" that my scenario calls for.
> No, I didn't write the Marvel timeline--and I only agree with some

of

> it (I've developed my own--but, then again, I'm not trying to "fit

in"

> the Marvel stories "Terror on the POTA", "Evolution's Nightmare",

etc.

> Only the 5 films and the 14 TV episodes.).
> Me, a "menace" to society? I was thinking of calling YOU a "walking
> pestilence"... but that'd be mean!
>
> Patrick Michael Tilton
> EARTH-TIME 3-10-2002

.htmlIn a message dated 3/10/02 7:27:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

The second "Rory" migration would be from 3085-California to 3955-East
Coast, since one Zaius is "in charge" in Central City, and HIS
DESCENDANT--also named "Zaius"--is "in charge" in Ape City. There's no

I object to any of this "Rory migration" stuff from you, Patrick.  I don't believe in ANY migration.  CONQUEST and BATTLE took place in the eastern US because THEY HAD TO to make the rest of the series make better sense.  The TV show IS NOT part of the film series -- PERIOD!!   STOP THE MADNESS!!!

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 3/10/02 8:18:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

You know I'm still shocked that a film like Moulin Rouge is winning
all sorts of awards. Standards have gone so far down these days.

Depressingly true, but I guess in the case of Moulin Rouge it's just all the hype and the fact that no one seems to know good from bad any more or even care.  Whatever has the current 'buzz' must be good because why else would it have the 'buzz.'  That's the thinking, I guess.  Years from now everyone will make fun of Moulin Rouge, so who cares?

-- Rory<.html

.htmlHey, this is on the Internet Movie Database about the new TIME MACHINE:

"Critics have generally agreed that the latest remake of H.G. Wells' sci-fi classic The Time Machine is pretty much a waste of time.  Peter Howell in the Toronto Star says it's really like "a very bad remake of Planet of the Apes.  No, it's worse than that.  It's Beneath the Planet of the Apes."

-- Rory<.html

In a message dated 3/10/02 9:14:35 PM Central Standard Time, Haristas@...
writes:

<< "a very bad remake of Planet of the Apes.
No, it's worse than that. It's Beneath the Planet of the Apes." >>

I'd go with Battle. I liked Beneath.

-Joe

Attachments :

I'd go with 'Time of the Apes'(the japanese cheesy version). I loved the
rest. :o)

Best.
Al

>From: CheeseGOTAS@...
>Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] The Time Machine
>Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 23:35:45 EST
>

_____

I don't know if any of you saw the latest Star Wars Trailer. But my thoughts
on that was that thta had to have been the stupidest trailer I've ever seen.
The scenes had so many special efects I felt I was watching a cartoon
instead of a movie!

And the actors looked like they were just throwing lines at each other
instaed of really acting!

Just to let you know, I recorded it on VHS and haven't watched since I first
viewed on televison.

But of course the movie is going to make a ton of money ayway.

In the words of Han Solo...
"I've got a bad feeling about this!"

But the clones were pretty cool though.
You know I'll be there at the boxoffice! :o)


Best.
Al


_____

The FX looked worse than the last one. And it looks like another yack
fest (talking heads) with hyper action scenes. And Yoda looks terrible.
Lucas! Love, Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Calima 5021" <calima5021com@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 8:50 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] SW Trailer [OT]


>
>
> I don't know if any of you saw the latest Star Wars Trailer. But my
thoughts
> on that was that thta had to have been the stupidest trailer I've ever
seen.
> The scenes had so many special efects I felt I was watching a cartoon
> instead of a movie!
>
> And the actors looked like they were just throwing lines at each other
> instaed of really acting!
>
> Just to let you know, I recorded it on VHS and haven't watched since I
first
> viewed on televison.
>
> But of course the movie is going to make a ton of money ayway.
>
> In the words of Han Solo...
> "I've got a bad feeling about this!"
>
> But the clones were pretty cool though.
> You know I'll be there at the boxoffice! :o)
>
>
> Best.
> Al
>
>
> _____

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 1:04 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet Of The Apes] Battle enigma

In a message dated 3/10/02 2:38:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

You can't argue with success. "Apes" was the money picture and it worked (though it would have made even more money if people actually liked it). "Moulin Reem" was the prestige picture and it worked (lots of Oscar noms, Fox is getting pats on the back for taking a risk and it was profitable to boot). Can't argue with success there.

                                                         - - - Jeff

I can argue with it.  How about there's more things in life than making money and winning Oscars?  But then Hollywood doesn't give a shit about anything else, eh Veetus?

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 6:52 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Moulin Rouge enigma

In a message dated 3/10/02 8:18:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

You know I'm still shocked that a film like Moulin Rouge is winning
all sorts of awards. Standards have gone so far down these days.

Depressingly true, but I guess in the case of Moulin Rouge it's just all the hype and the fact that no one seems to know good from bad any more or even care.  Whatever has the current 'buzz' must be good because why else would it have the 'buzz.'  That's the thinking, I guess.  Years from now everyone will make fun of Moulin Rouge, so who cares?

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

Anyone played the POTA PC game? I just started playing it and it
seems pretty cool so far.John

.html In a message dated 3/10/02 8:18:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

You know I'm still shocked that a film like Moulin Rouge is winning
all sorts of awards. Standards have gone so far down these days.

Depressingly true, but I guess in the case of Moulin Rouge it's just all the hype and the fact that no one seems to know good from bad any more or even care.  Whatever has the current 'buzz' must be good because why else would it have the 'buzz.'  That's the thinking, I guess.  Years from now everyone will make fun of Moulin Rouge, so who cares?

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .
<.html

I own it but have not yet played it.

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: hoopajoop2000 [hoopajoop2000@...]
> Sent: Monday, 11 March 2002 16:01
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] POTA PC Game
>
>
> Anyone played the POTA PC game? I just started playing it and it
> seems pretty cool so far.John

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Michael Whitty

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 11:08 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Moulin Rouge enima

Toodles likes it, don't you Veetus?  And all your gay friends like it too?

 

Michael

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Haristas@... [mailto:Haristas@...]
Sent: Monday, 11 March 2002 12:53
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Moulin Rouge enigma

In a message dated 3/10/02 8:18:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

You know I'm still shocked that a film like Moulin Rouge is winning
all sorts of awards. Standards have gone so far down these days.

Depressingly true, but I guess in the case of Moulin Rouge it's just all the hype and the fact that no one seems to know good from bad any more or even care.  Whatever has the current 'buzz' must be good because why else would it have the 'buzz.'  That's the thinking, I guess.  Years from now everyone will make fun of Moulin Rouge, so who cares?

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

respond to these intellectual (LOL) mailings... or if I choose... go pop in my Planet of the Apes (2001) DVD and lose myself in another world for a few minutes... whenever I choose!!!!

Eileen

Oh come on Eileen
Oh I swear
at this moment
You mean everything
Look at that dress
Oh man, what a mess
Oh you filthy little ...whoooa wait a minute
I got just a little carried away for a second there.
<.html

.html

The Time Machine is one of my favourite
films. The poor reviews are making me wonder however - which of my favourite
films will be the next to suffer a God-awful remake?

That will be . . . Journey To THe Center Of THe Earth.

<.html

.html

And the actors looked like they were just throwing lines at each other
instaed of really acting!

And that new guy was awful.
Somehow an Aussie accent doesn't quit make it in a Space Movie.
No offense guys.
Who's in Chaaage over there?

<.html

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I own it but have not yet played it.

Same here.  I need a graphics accelerator card first.
All I can do is watch the cinemagraphics.

<.html

.html
http://oracleofbacon.org/oracle/star_links.html"


This is the coolest thing ever...

I can even link Kim Hunter to Megumi Hayashibara.
Wow<.html

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And the actors looked like they were just throwing lines at each other
instaed of really acting!

And that new guy was awful.
Somehow an Aussie accent doesn't quit make it in a Space Movie.
No offense guys.
Who's in Chaaage over there?

<.html

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:

> And Yoda looks terrible.
> Lucas! Love, Jeff

Hey let's see how good you look when you're 800 years old;-) LOL

Attachments :

.htmlMaybe we should have a poll and see which everyone would perfer on the 5 Star Edition, if there is one.<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 3/11/02 12:49:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

What's wrong with "Moulin Rouge"?

Are you serious?  Just about everything.  The hyperkentetic (sp?) editing for one thing, the use of dialogue that's merely hyperbole, the use of modern songs with no connection to the time and setting of the story, the obsession with kinky sex.  It's a bloody ill-conceived mess.  I couldn't look at more than a few minutes of it here and there.

-- Rory<.html

Attachments :

The problem with Yoda is that he gone CGI this time around. So now he looks
like Jar Jar's brother.

At least we have Spiderman to 'really' enjoy this Spring.
And not Episode II, simply because we're original sw trilogy fans.

I tell you, Lucas's episodes are getting more and more childish by the
momment. What's he going to do for Episode III? Do everyone in CGI?

I can't believe it.

Best.
Al

>From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@...>
>Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] SW Trailer [OT]
>Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:23:20 -0000
>

_____

Attachments :

.html The problem with Yoda is that he gone CGI this time around. So now he looks
like Jar Jar's brother.

At least we have Spiderman to 'really' enjoy this Spring.
And not Episode II, simply because we're original sw trilogy fans.

I tell you, Lucas's episodes are getting more and more childish by the
momment. What's he going to do for Episode III? Do everyone in CGI?

I can't believe it.

Best.
Al

>From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@...>
>Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] SW Trailer [OT]
>Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:23:20 -0000
>

_____

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 11:08 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] The Time Machine

The Time Machine is one of my favourite
films. The poor reviews are making me wonder however - which of my favourite
films will be the next to suffer a God-awful remake?

That will be . . . Journey To THe Center Of THe Earth.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 4:48 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Moulin Rouge enigma

In a message dated 3/11/02 12:49:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

What's wrong with "Moulin Rouge"?

Are you serious?  Just about everything.  The hyperkentetic (sp?) editing for one thing, the use of dialogue that's merely hyperbole, the use of modern songs with no connection to the time and setting of the story, the obsession with kinky sex.  It's a bloody ill-conceived mess.  I couldn't look at more than a few minutes of it here and there.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

He was CGI last time. The problem is EVERYTHING is CGI. The animators can
only do so much. It's basically an animated film. Complain all you want
about Tim Burton, at least he still uses real sets! And Lucas says the
message of "Star Wars" is that technology only takes you so far, it's the
human spirit that counts. I'd say Lucas has been swallowed up by the Empire.
Toodles! - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Calima 5021" <calima5021com@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 5:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] SW Trailer [OT]


> The problem with Yoda is that he gone CGI this time around. So now he
looks
> like Jar Jar's brother.
>
> At least we have Spiderman to 'really' enjoy this Spring.
> And not Episode II, simply because we're original sw trilogy fans.
>
> I tell you, Lucas's episodes are getting more and more childish by the
> momment. What's he going to do for Episode III? Do everyone in CGI?
>
> I can't believe it.
>
> Best.
> Al
>
>
>
> >From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@...>
> >Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> >To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] SW Trailer [OT]
> >Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:23:20 -0000
> >
>
>
>
>
> _____

Attachments :

He was CGI in the walking scene, but NOT in the close ups in episode I.
Now he is all CGI and playing the role of Jar Jar's brother.

Best.
Al

>From: <veetus@...>
>Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] SW Trailer [OT]
>Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:21:02 -0800
>

_____

Complain all you want
about Tim Burton, at least he still uses real sets! And Lucas says the
message of "Star Wars" is that technology only takes you so far, it's the
human spirit that counts. I'd say Lucas has been swallowed up by the Empire.
Toodles! - - Jeff


Oh, I second that motion.
That's why I thought Planet of the Apes 2001 was great. For all the
complains about Tim Burton Style, it cound have been even worst with
someother CGI Directing lover! :o)

350 million world wide? Heck, I can live with that flop.

Best.
Al







_____

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: veetus@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 10:21 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] SW Trailer [OT]

  He was CGI last time. The problem is EVERYTHING is CGI. The animators can
only do so much. It's basically an animated film. Complain all you want
about Tim Burton, at least he still uses real sets! And Lucas says the
message of "Star Wars" is that technology only takes you so far, it's the
human spirit that counts. I'd say Lucas has been swallowed up by the Empire.
Toodles!      - - Jeff


----- Original Message -----
From: "Calima 5021" <calima5021com@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 5:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] SW Trailer [OT]


> The problem with Yoda is that he gone CGI this time around. So now he
looks
> like Jar Jar's brother.
>
> At least we have Spiderman to 'really' enjoy this Spring.
> And not Episode II, simply because we're original sw trilogy fans.
>
> I tell you, Lucas's episodes are getting more and more childish by the
> momment. What's he going to do for Episode III? Do everyone in CGI?
>
> I can't believe it.
>
> Best.
> Al
>
>
>
> >From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@...>
> >Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> >To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] SW Trailer [OT]
> >Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:23:20 -0000
> >
>
>
>
>
> _____> Get

passe... if you're gonna serenade me, at least be original. But
thanks for thinkin of me anyway...

Eileen

--- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:
>
> > respond to these intellectual (LOL) mailings... or if I choose...
go pop in
> > my Planet of the Apes (2001) DVD and lose myself in another world
for a few
> > minutes... whenever I choose!!!!
> >
> > Eileen
>
> Oh come on Eileen
> Oh I swear
> at this moment
> You mean everything
> Look at that dress
> Oh man, what a mess
> Oh you filthy little ...whoooa wait a minute
> I got just a little carried away for a second there.

.htmlIn a message dated 3/11/02 10:12:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

  It's delightful. As Oliver Stone says, "Why does there have to be only one style of filmmaking?". My problem was the cliche storyline but that's a given today.                                                    - - - Jeff

Personally, I'd rather sit through Jacob's "Doctor Dolittle" twenty times in a row.

-- Rory<.html

I'd rather watch the trailer for SW2 than a second of that shit Burton dised
up!

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: veetus@... [veetus@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, 12 March 2002 1:21
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] SW Trailer [OT]
>
>
> He was CGI last time. The problem is EVERYTHING is CGI. The
> animators can
> only do so much. It's basically an animated film. Complain all you want
> about Tim Burton, at least he still uses real sets! And Lucas says the
> message of "Star Wars" is that technology only takes you so far, it's the
> human spirit that counts. I'd say Lucas has been swallowed up by
> the Empire.
> Toodles! - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Calima 5021" <calima5021com@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, March 11, 2002 5:42 AM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] SW Trailer [OT]
>
>
> > The problem with Yoda is that he gone CGI this time around. So now he
> looks
> > like Jar Jar's brother.
> >
> > At least we have Spiderman to 'really' enjoy this Spring.
> > And not Episode II, simply because we're original sw trilogy fans.
> >
> > I tell you, Lucas's episodes are getting more and more childish by the
> > momment. What's he going to do for Episode III? Do everyone in CGI?
> >
> > I can't believe it.
> >
> > Best.
> > Al
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@...>
> > >Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] SW Trailer [OT]
> > >Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:23:20 -0000
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _____

.html<.html

--- In pota@y..., "Sammo Law" <sammo_of_borg@h...> wrote:

>i was going to buy it but i decided to buy some medicoms

--- In pota@y..., "Sammo Law" <sammo_of_borg@h...> wrote:

> i was going to buy it but i decided to buy some medicoms

I bought it. You made the right choice Sammie.

Moulin Rouge, Star Wars, The Time Machine. Aren't we getting a bit
off topic here guys.

--- In pota@y..., "Sammo Law" <sammo_of_borg@h...> wrote:

>i was going to buy it but i decided to buy some medicoms

.html<.html

.html<.html

Don't worry it's a pretty lame game.

--- In pota@y..., "Lynne Miller" <cosmicraye@h...> wrote:
> I own it, too, but have not played either. That little disclaimer
at the beginning about only using it on one computer did it for me.
I borrow someones computer until I have mine up and running, so I
don't want to go over just to play the game.

Lynne

Attachments :

Not only that but they also have him fighting with a light sabor in the
movie. Oh boy, I can't wait to see that. I guess that will be the cometic
moment in the film.

Best.
Al

>From: "Lynne Miller" <cosmicraye@...>
>Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] SW Trailer [OT]
>Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:21:55 -0500
>

_____

In a message dated 3/10/02 10:52:52 PM Central Standard Time,
calima5021com@... writes:

<< I'd go with 'Time of the Apes'(the japanese cheesy version). I loved the
rest. :o)

Best.
Al >>

Oh, I'm not saying Battle is bad. Just, when it's compared to the original,
it's the worst of the sequals. I haven't gotten around to seeing Time of the
Apes yet.

-Joe

I only like the first three original Star Wars movies, NOT the retooled
versions they did or episode one. This trailer just confirmed for me that
the next one will be even dumber than the previous one. I agree also that
CGI sucks ass! Computers are too fuckin lame to make CGI effects look real.
We won't have that kind of ability for at least another 25 years.

ThyPentacle

Well, CGI is really not that bad when done well. For example Jurassic Park 1
was a perfect mix between CGI, animatranix and live actors. But Lucas has
used CGI like it's going out of style and he wants to use as much as
possible before it finally does. Doing charactors is one thing, but using
complete backgrounds and having actors in front of a blue screens half the
time is a little too much.

Looking at 2 full hours of CGI is like getting off of a bad acid trip.
I can just see the commercials now...
"Here's your brain, here's your brain on CGI. Any questions?"
Hey, that shouls be the next Episode II Trailer! :o)

I just hope it's a good movie. There hasn't been a great culture slaming
summer blockbuster since POTA 2001!

Opps...I mean Jurassic Park 1!
Sorry Rory :o)

Best.
Al





_____

.html

The problem with Yoda is that he gone CGI this time around

That's pretty F'ed up right there!

<.html

.html

"Why does there have to be only one style of filmmaking?".

There are three styles of film making in my book.

Good,
Bad
& so bad it's good.
There is no, so good it's bad, style.<.html

.html

I'd go with 'Time of the Apes'(the japanese cheesy version).

I've only ever seen the MST3K version.
I don't really know what it's like as a film.

<.html

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I'd say Lucas has been swallowed up by the Empire.

Who's the unholy trinity, again?
Lucas, Spielberg and uh, lets see, could it be . . . BURTON!

<.html

You want to talk about politics again do you James?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: james611102 [JamesA1102@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, 12 March 2002 8:27
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Moulin Rouge enigma
>
>
> Moulin Rouge, Star Wars, The Time Machine. Aren't we getting a bit
> off topic here guys.

.html<.html

I toured ILM in '99 and they've invested so much in CGI over the last
10 years it seems like they feel obligated to use it as much as
possible.

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> He was CGI last time. The problem is EVERYTHING is CGI. The
animators can
> only do so much. It's basically an animated film. Complain all you
want
> about Tim Burton, at least he still uses real sets! And Lucas says
the
> message of "Star Wars" is that technology only takes you so far,
it's the
> human spirit that counts. I'd say Lucas has been swallowed up by
the Empire.
> Toodles! - - Jeff

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 3/10/02 7:27:15 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:

>The second "Rory" migration would be from 3085-California to 3955- >East Coast, since one Zaius is "in charge" in Central City, and HIS
>DESCENDANT--also named "Zaius"--is "in charge" in Ape City. There's no

I object to any of this "Rory migration" stuff from you, Patrick. I
don't believe in ANY migration. CONQUEST and BATTLE took place in the
eastern US because THEY HAD TO to make the rest of the series make
better sense. The TV show IS NOT part of the film series -- PERIOD!!
STOP THE MADNESS!!!

-- Rory

***But, Rory, I thought you didn't even consider the sequel movies
"canon"... so why do you have an opinion at all regarding the location
of "Breck's city"?
You're free to disregard the TV series. The 4 sequel flicks, ditto.
Hell, there's a guy who wrote a scholarly overview of Boulle's
literary works, and he dismisses the 1968 movie version as well (I
made a photocopy of his book--it's out of print, otherwise I'd have
bought a copy; I'll look up his name and the title of his book about
Boulle).
There are those out there who think that the TV series doesn't--
CANNOT--jive with the film series, due to the inconsistencies between
the two; they compare POTA-TV to other TV spinoffs like M*A*S*H,
LOGAN'S RUN, STARMAN, THE ODD COUPLE, etc. However, not ALL spinoffs
are necessarily irreconcilable with their filmic predecessors (for
instance, the STAR TREK films are "sequels" to the original show, as
are the other TV Trek spinoffs, which are all meant to share the same
"timeline"/"universe" as the original show. The X-FILES movie is part
of the same "series" as the actual show of the same name.
So, everybody's free to either disregard the POTA TV show or to "mesh"
it with the movie series. You've opted for the former; I prefer the
latter. Had it been set in an "Earth-Time" later than 3955 (the year
the Earth goes >boom< in BENEATH), then it WOULD be utterly impossible
to reconcile it with the movies; however, by setting it a little more
than halfway between the time of Caesar/Virgil/MacDonald and Zaius/
Cornelius/Zira, and by having the human race in a condition that is
humiliating (compared to the relatively peaceful former time, in
BATTLE) yet not utterly degraded (i.e. treated like a jungle beast, in
PLANET), and by having a character named "Zaius" around in 3085
(obviously, an ancestor of the Maurice Evans character), the folks who
made the TV show were linking the end of the movie series with its
beginning, with Humanity at a crossroads. Should Mankind remain
subservient, or risk getting "uppity" with their Ape overlords and
endure the violent repercussions?

Some time back, I wrote a lengthy response to a critique of the POTA-
TV DVDs, addressing my difference of opinion regarding the quality and
the worth of the TV show. You seem to despise the show on the grounds
that it is "dumbed down" from the original movie; I'll not deny that
there was a trend (beginning, actually, with the "family-friendly" G-
rated BATTLE) to lessen the violence level in the TV show. And yet...
they still manage to cram in a good amount of DEATH in the TV show:
1.) Jones dies as a result of the "crash" landing
2.) Farrow tells Virdon and Burke that the Apes are "always killing
humans"
3.) Farrow is shot to death by a gorilla
4.) Urko tells Galen that the "As-tro-nauts" who landed more than ten
years earlier were killed... "...before they could be questioned!"
says Zaius
5.) Zaius tells Virdon that he got that mini-handgrenade from a human
whom he'd had killed... as he would have Virdon and Burke killed, one
day...
6.) Galen foils an attempt by Urko to have his subordinate assassinate
Virdon and Burke... accidentally killing the lieutenant (Urko calls it
"murder")
7.) Zaius "can do nothing for" Galen, who must be put to death
(ostensibly for the murder of Urko's lieutenant, but actually because
he'd been "infected" with the Truth about the pre-Simian technological
civilization of Humans)
8.) Virdon threatens to kill Zaius unless he answers their questions
and later helps them to "spring" Galen from jail
... and that's just in the first episode! Sure, it ain't as bloody as
the bullet-riddling that does in Brent at the end of BENEATH, but for
a television series--which could NOT be so graphic due to the
"standards and practices" department--the PLANET OF THE APES show was
suggestive of a lot more violence than our eyes were permitted to see.

Is the TV show "as good" as the movie series? Well, no... but it has
its moments. It's THEMATIC content is what truly matters to me,
though. Thematically, its "message" is just as relevant today as it
was then, and as it will always be: the Ape civilization is "luddite",
a technophobic throwback which is doomed, eventually, since only the
society that takes advantage of constructive technology can possibly
perpetuate itself indefinitely... by escaping the cradle of planet
Earth via SPACE TRAVEL. If we (or any future simian civilization) keep
all of our eggs in this one basket, we have only ourselves to blame if
that basket gets smashed by a meteor, an asteroid, a comet, an all-out
nuclear war--you name it. Virdon and Burke time-and-again show both
Apes and Humans the advantages of applying technical knowledge to a
problem that can't be solved with "accepted" ways of doing things
(think of how the lack of any scientific method--and the clinging to
nonsensical "tradition"--endangers Polar's farm-family in "The Good
Seeds", the fishing workforce in "Tomorrow's Tide", the cult-
controlled humans in "The Liberator", etc. etc.). It is the thrust of
this particular theme that makes the POTA television show particularly
relevant today. Even today there are people who are deathly afraid of
what the "mad scientists" are developing--from stem cell cloning to
genetically-modified foods (for Christ's sake, corn-on-the-cob didn't
exist naturally as we know it today--it was "bred" to its current
size, and the result has helped to feed MILLIONS who otherwise would
have starved).
You say, "STOP THE MADNESS!" Hell, I've ranted before about it, but it
wouldn't hurt to rant again: the stranglehold that organized religion
has over BILLIONS of people around the world is the greatest threat
that we as a species (that we--in particular--as early 21st Century
Americans) face; the attacks on 9/11 were inspired by zealots who
would willingly--eagerly--destroy the western world with "ABC" weapons
("Atomic-Biological-Chemical") of mass destruction. We've all seen
what they were willing to do, using passenger jets as incendiary
missiles to take down skyscrapers, not caring that they themselves
would be "martyrs" to the cause of militant Islam.
Unless the human race can "weed out" this destructive "meme" (the
"religion" impulse that has warped human thought out of a preferred
groove of rational intellectualism into one of pseudospiritualistic
fervor), we stand a good chance to go the way of Thera. Thera was a
sophisticated society, devastated not by its own intellectual
fallibility but by the bad luck-of-the-draw: its geographical location
was on the tip of a goddamned volcano. They died through no fault of
their own; what will OUR excuse be? It makes my skin crawl to know
that even in the "land of the free and the home of the brave" there
are jerks like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson around to point the
finger of blame NOT at the religious fanatics who perpetrated the
terrorist acts but, rather, at the Feminists, the Homosexuals, the
Pornographers, the Abortionists, the Evolutionists, etc., who have so
"offended God" that He has taken away His "divine protection" from our
now-godless land...
Sheer, utter BULLSHIT!
If "God" had been on the side of Osama bin Laden, then He would have
ensured that all 4 of the hijacked planes would've hit their targets.
If "God" were on our side, then He would have prevented all 4 of the
planes--not just the one.
No... it took HUMAN ACTION to foil the 4th team of terrorists, to
prevent a fourth collision into an American landmark (the White House?
the Pentagon again? the Capitol Building? the Smithsonian?). As one
hero said: "Let's Roll!" That worthless "god" so many people believe
in (on either side of this conflict) didn't lift a single damned
finger to help us out. How many of the thousands who died at the WTC
screamed to God to save them? How many of their loved ones did so on
their behalf? How many people around the world prayed to God to save
those doomed people trapped in the upper floors--people they didn't
know personally at all, but whose terror they could feel as they
watched it on TV? Remember all those medical personnel awaiting the
hundreds of wounded they hoped would be brought out to them... only to
have virtually nothing to do, since the vast majority of those who
were in the buildings when they fell were dead?
Christian preachers keep droning on and on and on about how human
beings cannot solve their own problems... how we need God to solve
them for us. All we have to do is surrender our Will unto this
bloodthirsty tyrant from our superstitious, unsophisticated Past...
and we'll "get to Heaven" and be "Saved". The only thing we need to be
"saved" from is this unprovable mystical notion that we are "fallen"
spiritually and we "can't get up" without letting "god" pull our
strings like some ethereal puppeteer, "saving" our souls from
"damnation". As a species, we're like children who still believe in
Santa Claus because we don't know any better, and our parents--those
in "authority" over us--purposely indoctrinate us into this foolish
belief system. Maybe someday we'll grow up and shake our heads at how
stupid we were to go on believing in the improbable and impossible
myths of our ancestors.
Until then, it's a bitch to be a "heretic" in a religion-intoxicated
world. I know EXACTLY how Galen felt/feels/will feel when he is
exposed to the Truth, which calls into question his entire worldview.
How much safer it would have been for him to just toss Farrow's book
into the fire, to leave the "interesting humans" to their fate, and
live the life of a successful administrator in the Ape world; but
Galen opts for the difficult road--the ONLY road that can lead to a
potentially BETTER world than the horse-and-buggy pre-industrial "rut"
his society has gotten itself into.

Sometimes, when it's "me against the world", the World is what's
wrong. It isn't easy, necessarily, for anybody to recognize that that
is the case, on a case-to-case basis, but Progress can't go forward
without that recognition. Galen's eyes are opened; his former love,
Dr. Kira, suffers the same "accident": a collision with the Truth. The
only way the human race will ever be able to succeed, ultimately, is
if it, too, undergoes that cognitive metamorphosis. And THAT is the
theme of the PLANET saga--both the movies AND the television show.
Either we will improve our minds and go to the Stars... or we'll
continue to slog on through the muck with "that Beast...the dark side
of ourselves" (as Breck calls it) ruling over our thought processes.

Despite its flaws, the TV series had thematic gold running through it,
and if YOU, Rory, can't appreciate it... well, c'est la vie.
In my opinion, the TV show IS a part of the POTA saga... EXCLAMATION
POINT!

Patrick Michael Tilton
EARTH-TIME 3-12-2002

.htmlIn a message dated 3/12/02 11:22:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

But, Rory, I thought you didn't even consider the sequel movies
"canon"... so why do you have an opinion at all regarding the location
of "Breck's city"?

I guess with you, Patrick, everything is either black or white.  Well, it's not with me.  There is an APES series, each film does follow to a degree the story that came before, but there are continuity errors from film to film that as far as I'm concerned make what you're trying to do with your maga-whatever-it-is ridiculous.  So, I accept the films as creating a series, but not a saga (which is defined as "a long story with many episodes"), not seperate chapters of one story, but seperate stories with related themes, characters, and events.  Although there may be more connective tissue between the APES films (especially the four sequels) than say the James Bond movies, the APES movies are a film series just like the James Bond or Frankenstein or Tarzan movies.  They're not a serial, they're not a saga.

-- Rory<.html

.html

Sheer, utter BULLSHIT!

I finally found a way to read you post Pat.
I just hit the page down button and look for a
clear and well defined statement about anything.

BULLSHIT!

<.html

Sheer, utter BULLSHIT!

I finally found a way to read you post Pat.
I just hit the page down button and look for a
clear and well defined statement about anything.

BULLSHIT!

BULLSHIT!
BULLSHIT!

.html

what is "time of the apes"?

-Sammo_of_Borg

Read your own post there Borg Boy.
It's right there in the highlight you dragged over.
<<'Time of the Apes'(the japanese cheesy version). >>
Its a cheesy Japanese POTA type movie.
Kids in a time machine type thing.  Where everyone looks
about as much like an ape as Kong looked like King Kong
in Godzilla Vs King Kong.  Perfect fare for MST3K.  So
It's probably just as funny without all the running jokes.


<.html

Sheer, utter BULLSHIT!

I finally found a way to read you post Pat.
I just hit the page down button and look for a
clear and well defined statement about anything.

BULLSHIT!
BULLSHIT!
BULLSHIT!
BULLSHIT!
BULLSHIT!
BULLSHIT!
BULLSHIT!
BULLSHIT!
BULLSHIT!
BULLSHIT!
BULLSHIT!
BULLSHIT!
BULLSHIT!
BULLSHIT!
BULLSHIT!
BULLSHIT!
BULLSHIT!
BULLSHIT!
BULLSHIT!
BULLSHIT!
BULLSHIT!
BULLSHIT!
BULLSHIT!
BULLSHIT!
BULLSHIT!
BULLSHIT!
BULLSHIT!
BULLSHIT!
BULLSHIT!
BULLSHIT!
BULLSHIT!
BULLSHIT!
BULLSHIT!

.htmlIn a message dated 3/12/02 11:22:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

You're free to disregard the TV series. The 4 sequel flicks, ditto.
Hell, there's a guy who wrote a scholarly overview of Boulle's
literary works, and he dismisses the 1968 movie version as well (I
made a photocopy of his book--it's out of print, otherwise I'd have
bought a copy; I'll look up his name and the title of his book about
Boulle).

Oh, thank you, Patrick, for allowing me to be free to disregard things. 

Is the book you're talking about "Pierre Boulle" by Lucille Frackman Becker?  If it is, than I have it and YES she thinks the 1968 film is no good, a dumbed-down version of the novel, and that the sequels and what came after are "brainless."  She also doesn't think much of the film version of "Bridge Over the River Kwai."  I can see where she's coming from and I have no problem with her views.  It's YOUR VIEWS I have a problem with because you're just messing with other writer's business and making it an even more convoluted mess!

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 3/12/02 11:22:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

the STAR TREK films are "sequels" to the original show

Could you please give us your explanation (and please, in less than fifty thousand words) for the Klingons of the TV series and those in the films and beyond?

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 3/12/02 11:22:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

So, everybody's free to either disregard the POTA TV show or to "mesh"
it with the movie series. You've opted for the former; I prefer the
latter. Had it been set in an "Earth-Time" later than 3955 (the year
the Earth goes >boom< in BENEATH), then it WOULD be utterly impossible
to reconcile it with the movies;

Oh really?!!!!  I didn't think you lacked that much imagination, Patrick!  How about the events of BENEATH were avoided by changes made in the second timeline, the timeline in which the chimpanzees return to 1973 and the 'savior' Caesar is born?

-- Rory<.html

The best explaination was in the DS9 episode "Trials and
Tribulations" when Worf said about it, "It's a long story and we
don't speak about it even amoung ourselves". Proving the simplest
route is the best. Acknowledge the continuity error then dismiss it
without any wild explanations that will sound fake to the audience.

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> > the STAR TREK films are "sequels" to the original show
>
> Could you please give us your explanation (and please, in less than
fifty
> thousand words) for the Klingons of the TV series and those in the
films and
> beyond?
>
> -- Rory

.htmlIn a message dated 3/12/02 11:22:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

and by having a character named "Zaius" around in 3085
(obviously, an ancestor of the Maurice Evans character)

Ridiculous!  The only thing that's 'obvious' about that, Patrick, is that the TV show used one name from Boulle's book, hence the "based on characters created by Pierre Boulle" credit at the end of the show.  You're connecting the two as being related to one another is merely a childish leap in logic.  You've probably been thinking that since you were a kid and haven't grown out of it!  GROW UP, PATRICK!

-- Rory <.html

.htmlIn a message dated 3/12/02 11:22:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

Despite its flaws, the TV series had thematic gold running through it,
and if YOU, Rory, can't appreciate it... well, c'est la vie.
In my opinion, the TV show IS a part of the POTA saga... EXCLAMATION
POINT!

Your silly mind and ramblings are the true "POTA saga," and I'm as guilty as you are of not putting this crap from our childhoods behind us, but YOU take it too far!  As I've said, Patrick, why don't you try to come up with an original vehicle for your concerns?

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 3/12/02 2:35:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

. Acknowledge the continuity error then dismiss it
without any wild explanations that will sound fake to the audience.

Not in Patrick's universe.  No way, baby!<.html

I work with a guy named John Adams who is no relation to either
President of that name. I have a friend named Thomas Jackson who it
no relation to Stonewall. I don't know this for sure but I doubt Sid
Caesar is any relation to Julius or Augustus.

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 3/12/02 11:22:14 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
>
> > and by having a character named "Zaius" around in 3085
> > (obviously, an ancestor of the Maurice Evans character)
>

.html In a message dated 3/12/02 11:22:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

the STAR TREK films are "sequels" to the original show

Could you please give us your explanation (and please, in less than fifty thousand words) for the Klingons of the TV series and those in the films and beyond?

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .
<.html

.html In a message dated 3/12/02 11:22:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

So, everybody's free to either disregard the POTA TV show or to "mesh"
it with the movie series. You've opted for the former; I prefer the
latter. Had it been set in an "Earth-Time" later than 3955 (the year
the Earth goes >boom< in BENEATH), then it WOULD be utterly impossible
to reconcile it with the movies;

Oh really?!!!!  I didn't think you lacked that much imagination, Patrick!  How about the events of BENEATH were avoided by changes made in the second timeline, the timeline in which the chimpanzees return to 1973 and the 'savior' Caesar is born?

-- Rory
<.html

What has really cheapened that is the appearence of the Klingons in the new
(prequel) series.

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: james611102 [JamesA1102@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, 13 March 2002 5:29
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Original vs. Altered Timeline
>
>
> The best explaination was in the DS9 episode "Trials and
> Tribulations" when Worf said about it, "It's a long story and we
> don't speak about it even amoung ourselves". Proving the simplest
> route is the best. Acknowledge the continuity error then dismiss it
> without any wild explanations that will sound fake to the audience.
>
> --- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> > > the STAR TREK films are "sequels" to the original show
> >
> > Could you please give us your explanation (and please, in less than
> fifty
> > thousand words) for the Klingons of the TV series and those in the
> films and
> > beyond?
> >
> > -- Rory

.html In a message dated 3/12/02 11:22:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

and by having a character named "Zaius" around in 3085
(obviously, an ancestor of the Maurice Evans character)

Ridiculous!  The only thing that's 'obvious' about that, Patrick, is that the TV show used one name from Boulle's book, hence the "based on characters created by Pierre Boulle" credit at the end of the show.  You're connecting the two as being related to one another is merely a childish leap in logic.  You've probably been thinking that since you were a kid and haven't grown out of it!  GROW UP, PATRICK!

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .
<.html

How "Bridge over the River Kwai" is one of my favorite movies. Alec
Guiness and William Holden are great in it. My only complaint is that
they stole the ending from Beneath. LOL

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> Oh, thank you, Patrick, for allowing me to be free to disregard
things.
>
> Is the book you're talking about "Pierre Boulle" by Lucille
Frackman Becker?
> If it is, than I have it and YES she thinks the 1968 film is no
good, a
> dumbed-down version of the novel, and that the sequels and what
came after
> are "brainless." She also doesn't think much of the film version
of "Bridge
> Over the River Kwai." I can see where she's coming from and I have
no
> problem with her views. It's YOUR VIEWS I have a problem with
because you're
> just messing with other writer's business and making it an even
more
> convoluted mess!
>
> -- Rory

.htmlIn a message dated 3/12/02 4:11:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

That seems to be a contradiction Rory - no one in this group has chosen to grow up yet (thank god).

Michael



I agree.  Perhaps we should change the name of this group to "The Peter Pan POTA Group"?

What do you say, Peter Pan Patrick?

-- Rory Pan<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 3/12/02 6:25:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

How "Bridge over the River Kwai" is one of my favorite movies. Alec
Guiness and William Holden are great in it. My only complaint is that
they stole the ending from Beneath. LOL

It's one of my favorite movies, too.  The DVD is great -- and Michael Wilson finally gets his screenplay credit (He also finally gets his credit on "Lawrence of Arabia" too.).  The Boulle book is titled "The Bridge Over the River Kwai," but the movie is actually titled "The Bridge on the River Kwai," and I think it's better than Boulle's book.

-- Rory<.html

WOW I never noticed the difference in the titles before. Like the
novel is Doctor No spelled out while the movie is Dr. No.

FYI here a link to the page in the promotional Herald for Battle that
has a picture and short article on the Alpha-Omega bomb. I thought
everyone might find it of interest.

http://www.mediamercenary.com/herald.htm

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 3/12/02 6:25:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> JamesA1102@a... writes:
>
>
> > How "Bridge over the River Kwai" is one of my favorite movies.
Alec
> > Guiness and William Holden are great in it. My only complaint is
that
> > they stole the ending from Beneath. LOL
> >
> >
>
> It's one of my favorite movies, too. The DVD is great -- and
Michael Wilson
> finally gets his screenplay credit (He also finally gets his credit
on
> "Lawrence of Arabia" too.). The Boulle book is titled "The Bridge
Over the
> River Kwai," but the movie is actually titled "The Bridge on the
River Kwai,"
> and I think it's better than Boulle's book.
>
> -- Rory

.html

What has really cheapened that is the appearence of the Klingons in the new
(prequel) series.

I was really hoping for a retro-looking Cpt. Christopher Pike type ship.
It looks too new!  It needs more light up buttons and lose the touch screens!

<.html

Jesus died for YOUR sins too, Patrick!

I agree; it's easy to knock the TV show but it had a lot going against it
in terms of time, budget, etc. They had a lot less to work with them even
the worst of the movies. And that includes the writing. TV is a bitch for
writers. But they still managed to put something to mull over in there. I
find myself going back to it and I can't stand even 5 minutes of most TV
shows.

Yeah, people have a strange way of showing their love for God sometimes,
but the extremes tend to be about megalomania more than religion.

I definitely have different ideas about an "Apes" chronology but I enjoy
Patrick's ideas. Keep up the good work.
- - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 8:19 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Original vs. Altered Timeline


> --- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> > In a message dated 3/10/02 7:27:15 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
> >The second "Rory" migration would be from 3085-California to 3955-
>East Coast, since one Zaius is "in charge" in Central City, and HIS
> >DESCENDANT--also named "Zaius"--is "in charge" in Ape City. There's no
>
> I object to any of this "Rory migration" stuff from you, Patrick. I
> don't believe in ANY migration. CONQUEST and BATTLE took place in the
> eastern US because THEY HAD TO to make the rest of the series make
> better sense. The TV show IS NOT part of the film series -- PERIOD!!
> STOP THE MADNESS!!!
>
> -- Rory
>
> ***But, Rory, I thought you didn't even consider the sequel movies
> "canon"... so why do you have an opinion at all regarding the location
> of "Breck's city"?
> You're free to disregard the TV series. The 4 sequel flicks, ditto.
> Hell, there's a guy who wrote a scholarly overview of Boulle's
> literary works, and he dismisses the 1968 movie version as well (I
> made a photocopy of his book--it's out of print, otherwise I'd have
> bought a copy; I'll look up his name and the title of his book about
> Boulle).
> There are those out there who think that the TV series doesn't--
> CANNOT--jive with the film series, due to the inconsistencies between
> the two; they compare POTA-TV to other TV spinoffs like M*A*S*H,
> LOGAN'S RUN, STARMAN, THE ODD COUPLE, etc. However, not ALL spinoffs
> are necessarily irreconcilable with their filmic predecessors (for
> instance, the STAR TREK films are "sequels" to the original show, as
> are the other TV Trek spinoffs, which are all meant to share the same
> "timeline"/"universe" as the original show. The X-FILES movie is part
> of the same "series" as the actual show of the same name.
> So, everybody's free to either disregard the POTA TV show or to "mesh"
> it with the movie series. You've opted for the former; I prefer the
> latter. Had it been set in an "Earth-Time" later than 3955 (the year
> the Earth goes >boom< in BENEATH), then it WOULD be utterly impossible
> to reconcile it with the movies; however, by setting it a little more
> than halfway between the time of Caesar/Virgil/MacDonald and Zaius/
> Cornelius/Zira, and by having the human race in a condition that is
> humiliating (compared to the relatively peaceful former time, in
> BATTLE) yet not utterly degraded (i.e. treated like a jungle beast, in
> PLANET), and by having a character named "Zaius" around in 3085
> (obviously, an ancestor of the Maurice Evans character), the folks who
> made the TV show were linking the end of the movie series with its
> beginning, with Humanity at a crossroads. Should Mankind remain
> subservient, or risk getting "uppity" with their Ape overlords and
> endure the violent repercussions?
>
> Some time back, I wrote a lengthy response to a critique of the POTA-
> TV DVDs, addressing my difference of opinion regarding the quality and
> the worth of the TV show. You seem to despise the show on the grounds
> that it is "dumbed down" from the original movie; I'll not deny that
> there was a trend (beginning, actually, with the "family-friendly" G-
> rated BATTLE) to lessen the violence level in the TV show. And yet...
> they still manage to cram in a good amount of DEATH in the TV show:
> 1.) Jones dies as a result of the "crash" landing
> 2.) Farrow tells Virdon and Burke that the Apes are "always killing
> humans"
> 3.) Farrow is shot to death by a gorilla
> 4.) Urko tells Galen that the "As-tro-nauts" who landed more than ten
> years earlier were killed... "...before they could be questioned!"
> says Zaius
> 5.) Zaius tells Virdon that he got that mini-handgrenade from a human
> whom he'd had killed... as he would have Virdon and Burke killed, one
> day...
> 6.) Galen foils an attempt by Urko to have his subordinate assassinate
> Virdon and Burke... accidentally killing the lieutenant (Urko calls it
> "murder")
> 7.) Zaius "can do nothing for" Galen, who must be put to death
> (ostensibly for the murder of Urko's lieutenant, but actually because
> he'd been "infected" with the Truth about the pre-Simian technological
> civilization of Humans)
> 8.) Virdon threatens to kill Zaius unless he answers their questions
> and later helps them to "spring" Galen from jail
> ... and that's just in the first episode! Sure, it ain't as bloody as
> the bullet-riddling that does in Brent at the end of BENEATH, but for
> a television series--which could NOT be so graphic due to the
> "standards and practices" department--the PLANET OF THE APES show was
> suggestive of a lot more violence than our eyes were permitted to see.
>
> Is the TV show "as good" as the movie series? Well, no... but it has
> its moments. It's THEMATIC content is what truly matters to me,
> though. Thematically, its "message" is just as relevant today as it
> was then, and as it will always be: the Ape civilization is "luddite",
> a technophobic throwback which is doomed, eventually, since only the
> society that takes advantage of constructive technology can possibly
> perpetuate itself indefinitely... by escaping the cradle of planet
> Earth via SPACE TRAVEL. If we (or any future simian civilization) keep
> all of our eggs in this one basket, we have only ourselves to blame if
> that basket gets smashed by a meteor, an asteroid, a comet, an all-out
> nuclear war--you name it. Virdon and Burke time-and-again show both
> Apes and Humans the advantages of applying technical knowledge to a
> problem that can't be solved with "accepted" ways of doing things
> (think of how the lack of any scientific method--and the clinging to
> nonsensical "tradition"--endangers Polar's farm-family in "The Good
> Seeds", the fishing workforce in "Tomorrow's Tide", the cult-
> controlled humans in "The Liberator", etc. etc.). It is the thrust of
> this particular theme that makes the POTA television show particularly
> relevant today. Even today there are people who are deathly afraid of
> what the "mad scientists" are developing--from stem cell cloning to
> genetically-modified foods (for Christ's sake, corn-on-the-cob didn't
> exist naturally as we know it today--it was "bred" to its current
> size, and the result has helped to feed MILLIONS who otherwise would
> have starved).
> You say, "STOP THE MADNESS!" Hell, I've ranted before about it, but it
> wouldn't hurt to rant again: the stranglehold that organized religion
> has over BILLIONS of people around the world is the greatest threat
> that we as a species (that we--in particular--as early 21st Century
> Americans) face; the attacks on 9/11 were inspired by zealots who
> would willingly--eagerly--destroy the western world with "ABC" weapons
> ("Atomic-Biological-Chemical") of mass destruction. We've all seen
> what they were willing to do, using passenger jets as incendiary
> missiles to take down skyscrapers, not caring that they themselves
> would be "martyrs" to the cause of militant Islam.
> Unless the human race can "weed out" this destructive "meme" (the
> "religion" impulse that has warped human thought out of a preferred
> groove of rational intellectualism into one of pseudospiritualistic
> fervor), we stand a good chance to go the way of Thera. Thera was a
> sophisticated society, devastated not by its own intellectual
> fallibility but by the bad luck-of-the-draw: its geographical location
> was on the tip of a goddamned volcano. They died through no fault of
> their own; what will OUR excuse be? It makes my skin crawl to know
> that even in the "land of the free and the home of the brave" there
> are jerks like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson around to point the
> finger of blame NOT at the religious fanatics who perpetrated the
> terrorist acts but, rather, at the Feminists, the Homosexuals, the
> Pornographers, the Abortionists, the Evolutionists, etc., who have so
> "offended God" that He has taken away His "divine protection" from our
> now-godless land...
> Sheer, utter BULLSHIT!
> If "God" had been on the side of Osama bin Laden, then He would have
> ensured that all 4 of the hijacked planes would've hit their targets.
> If "God" were on our side, then He would have prevented all 4 of the
> planes--not just the one.
> No... it took HUMAN ACTION to foil the 4th team of terrorists, to
> prevent a fourth collision into an American landmark (the White House?
> the Pentagon again? the Capitol Building? the Smithsonian?). As one
> hero said: "Let's Roll!" That worthless "god" so many people believe
> in (on either side of this conflict) didn't lift a single damned
> finger to help us out. How many of the thousands who died at the WTC
> screamed to God to save them? How many of their loved ones did so on
> their behalf? How many people around the world prayed to God to save
> those doomed people trapped in the upper floors--people they didn't
> know personally at all, but whose terror they could feel as they
> watched it on TV? Remember all those medical personnel awaiting the
> hundreds of wounded they hoped would be brought out to them... only to
> have virtually nothing to do, since the vast majority of those who
> were in the buildings when they fell were dead?
> Christian preachers keep droning on and on and on about how human
> beings cannot solve their own problems... how we need God to solve
> them for us. All we have to do is surrender our Will unto this
> bloodthirsty tyrant from our superstitious, unsophisticated Past...
> and we'll "get to Heaven" and be "Saved". The only thing we need to be
> "saved" from is this unprovable mystical notion that we are "fallen"
> spiritually and we "can't get up" without letting "god" pull our
> strings like some ethereal puppeteer, "saving" our souls from
> "damnation". As a species, we're like children who still believe in
> Santa Claus because we don't know any better, and our parents--those
> in "authority" over us--purposely indoctrinate us into this foolish
> belief system. Maybe someday we'll grow up and shake our heads at how
> stupid we were to go on believing in the improbable and impossible
> myths of our ancestors.
> Until then, it's a bitch to be a "heretic" in a religion-intoxicated
> world. I know EXACTLY how Galen felt/feels/will feel when he is
> exposed to the Truth, which calls into question his entire worldview.
> How much safer it would have been for him to just toss Farrow's book
> into the fire, to leave the "interesting humans" to their fate, and
> live the life of a successful administrator in the Ape world; but
> Galen opts for the difficult road--the ONLY road that can lead to a
> potentially BETTER world than the horse-and-buggy pre-industrial "rut"
> his society has gotten itself into.
>
> Sometimes, when it's "me against the world", the World is what's
> wrong. It isn't easy, necessarily, for anybody to recognize that that
> is the case, on a case-to-case basis, but Progress can't go forward
> without that recognition. Galen's eyes are opened; his former love,
> Dr. Kira, suffers the same "accident": a collision with the Truth. The
> only way the human race will ever be able to succeed, ultimately, is
> if it, too, undergoes that cognitive metamorphosis. And THAT is the
> theme of the PLANET saga--both the movies AND the television show.
> Either we will improve our minds and go to the Stars... or we'll
> continue to slog on through the muck with "that Beast...the dark side
> of ourselves" (as Breck calls it) ruling over our thought processes.
>
> Despite its flaws, the TV series had thematic gold running through it,
> and if YOU, Rory, can't appreciate it... well, c'est la vie.
> In my opinion, the TV show IS a part of the POTA saga... EXCLAMATION
> POINT!
>
> Patrick Michael Tilton
> EARTH-TIME 3-12-2002
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That seems to be a contradiction Rory - no one in this group has chosen to grow up yet (thank god).

I grow back and forth.  Or, perhaps, I grow up at times, and it doesn't take.
If carefree childhood is only an Ape movie away, I hope there's another one.
But this time make it great!  Why waste the effort on halfassed monkey movies.<.html

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----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 11:31 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Original vs. Altered Timeline

In a message dated 3/12/02 11:22:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

and by having a character named "Zaius" around in 3085
(obviously, an ancestor of the Maurice Evans character)

Ridiculous!  The only thing that's 'obvious' about that, Patrick, is that the TV show used one name from Boulle's book, hence the "based on characters created by Pierre Boulle" credit at the end of the show.  You're connecting the two as being related to one another is merely a childish leap in logic.  You've probably been thinking that since you were a kid and haven't grown out of it!  GROW UP, PATRICK!

-- Rory

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  I agree; it's easy to knock the TV show but it had a lot going

I think Pentaclese will agree . . . any episode with The Chimpettes is watchable.  Even the mean one with the bondage gear.  Though I don't know what it is about them.  Perhaps the possiblities monkeying around with an extra pair of hands.  I don't know.  I don't know what the deal is with Galen's mom's nose either.
Funny, he doesn't look jewish.

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----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 8:06 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Original vs. Altered Timeline

  I agree; it's easy to knock the TV show but it had a lot going

I think Pentaclese will agree . . . any episode with The Chimpettes is watchable.  Even the mean one with the bondage gear.  Though I don't know what it is about them.  Perhaps the possiblities monkeying around with an extra pair of hands.  I don't know.  I don't know what the deal is with Galen's mom's nose either.
Funny, he doesn't look jewish.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

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What what??? Bondage gear??? Please specify...what's her name...are there pictures??? :o)

I believe the title was The Interrogation.
The one where Wanda has Burke tied to a table and is spinning it around trying to brainwash him in to thinking she's his girlfriend so he'll talk.  His sense came back right before she kissed him, but my taste in women must be broader than his.  I would have faked being insensible a few seconds longer and waited to see how it was.  I mean, lets face it, the only other female on the planet interested in him was another chimp.  And she was blind!  Before you ask, Pentaclese, no he didn't score then either.  She felt his face and freaked.  As far as striking out goes, he was batting a thousand.  Galen was just as bad.  His girlfriend was a doctor, but he'd rather be running around in the woods with a couple of dudes!  Anyone remember if Verdon got any?  Seems to me, if he wasn't worried about his wife and kids, there was some randy human chick that would have been all over him.

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