> Writer's Guild credits are a matter of public record. The credits

> the actual movie are the same as the credits on the final version

> script, which came before the Writer's Guild ever saw it.

> Russo, Greene,
> and Joyce Corrington all agree that it wasn't Dehn's story, and

> story in fact had the exact opposite ending that the movie had.

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 3/20/02 11:04:31 PM Eastern Standard Time,
MTotsky@a...
> writes:
>
>
> > << Hey, folks, this thing is out! Does anyone here dare to order
it? >>
> >
> > Go for it Rory! I want to borrow it after you've viewed it.
> >
> >
> > Matt
> >
> >
>
> I may just have to do that!

>That picture doesn't even jibe with the rest of the TV Series. In the
>two episode where they visit ruined citys; the ruins look like they
>are from the 20th Century not the 26th. The Bart station is clearly
>from the 20th and Burke is even able to explain the advertisments to
>Urko.

>Now ask yourself, whenever you see a picture of a city in a book or
>magazine and it identifies the name of a city with a date it is
>usually for one of two reasons. The first being 'look what this city
>looked like way back when'. The second is 'Here what this city is
>projected to look like in the future'. Maybe that's what that picture
>was. If it had been a contemporary picture of New York why would
>there be any reason to identify the city and date it.

----- Original Message -----
From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Ape Collectibles


> As someone who works in advertising, I always take those figures with
> a grain of salt. Plus it doesn't say that they made much in the mid-
> 70s just that they had made that total since 1968 to whenever that
> was issued. And knowing how these people do things, I wouldn't be
> surprized if they took how much they made in the 60s & 70s and
> adjusted it up for inflation to get to the $100MM number.
> As far as every entertainment marketing course I've taken, Star Wars
> was the first film where merchandise sales exceeded the box office.
>
> --- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> > Fox crowed about the $100 million when they were lining up
> merchandisers
> > for the new one. Here's a direct quote from the cardboard ad they
> handed out
> > last year at Toy Fair: "A Franchise Reborn...In it's original 1968
> > incarnation, POTA spawned four sequels, two television series and
> over US $
> > 100 Million in merchandise sales". That's straight from the
> horse's, er,
> > fox's mouth. See? The new "Apes" WAS an artistic endeavor. Toodles!
> > - - -
> Jeff
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@a...>
> > To: <pota@y...>
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 11:32 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Ape Collectibles
> >
> >
> > > Apes mechandise made $100MM?!?! Where are you getting your
> figures,
> > > Arther Anderson.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> > > > "Apes" merch made more money than the films did . It made $100
> > > million
> > > > during the mid-70's (by contrast, "Star Wars" merch made $100
> > > million just
> > > > in 1978!). But like I said, serials, comic books, TV shows are
> > > different;
> > > > that's continuing exposure. And that's over a period of time.
> It's
> > > different
> > > > than rolling the merch dice on one unproven film. Fox did that
> > > with "Dr. D'
> > > > and lost big time. By the way, the reason Kenner was so hot to
> > > do "Star
> > > > Wars" toys is because they thought it would eventually wind up
> as a
> > > TV show.
> > > > Fox though so little of the merchandising that they gave the
> rights
> > > to Lucas
> > > > if he cut his fee. And the sequel rights. Fox gets nothing
> > > for "Star Wars"
> > > > now except a distribution fee. He he
> > > > - - Jeff
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@a...>
> > > > To: <pota@y...>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 3:18 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Ape Collectibles
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I really don't remember exact items but I remember my sister
> > > > > collecting stuff. I don't really remember any items for
> Dolittle
> > > > > either. I do remember a lot of stuff for Chitty Chitty Bang
> Bang,
> > > > > which came out in 1968, including a really cool dye cast
> model of
> > > the
> > > > > car with retractable wings.
> > > > > The truth is merchandising of movies and TV shows has been
> around
> > > as
> > > > > long as they have been. It didn't start with Dolittle and
> Apes.
> > > Nor
> > > > > did they take it to a new level as you suggest. It was done
> with
> > > > > radio shows, comics and serials in the 30s & 40s and TV shows
> in
> > > the
> > > > > 50s & 60s. Look at everything that has been produced for
> > > properties
> > > > > like Flash Gordon to Star Trek to James Bond and others.
> > > > > The film that is considered to have really revolutionized
> > > > > mechandising is Star Wars. Because for the first time the
> > > merchandise
> > > > > made more money than the film did.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> > > > > > a) Disney is different; they'd merchandise their uncles if
> > > they
> > > > > could. I'm
> > > > > > talking about the real world. Plus Disney movies are never
> > > really
> > > > > one-shots;
> > > > > > they've got theme parks and continuing shows on TV to keep
> > > interest
> > > > > in their
> > > > > > movies
> > > > > >
> > > > > > b) exactly how much "Poppins" merch was there the year it
> came
> > > > > out? Not
> > > > > > since, but that year. I bet "Dolittle" beat
> > > > > > - - - Jeff
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 8:59 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Original vs. Altered Timeline


> Sounds like a big stretch to me.
>
> --- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> > Face it, they had a lot of down time hiding. Armando (and Lewis
> and Stevie)
> > would be curious about their society. And Cornelius is an
> archeologist, he
> > can even draw one. - - Jeff
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@a...>
> > To: <pota@y...>
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 11:34 PM
> > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Original vs. Altered Timeline
> >
> >
> > > Yes Every fugitive takes out time to do sketches of clothing
> styles.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> > > > As I've said before, my answer is that Cornelius did some
> > > sketches of their civilization for Armando and Caesar later
> > > remembered and incorporated them into "Battle". That's the only
> way
> > > to get the same costumes. Works for me. - -
> > > Jeff
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Haristas@a...
> > > > To: pota@y...
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 5:38 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Original vs. Altered
> > > Timeline
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > In a message dated 3/19/02 6:52:18 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > > JamesA1102@a... writes:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The clothing styles for the apes in Planet and
> > > > Beneath are the same as in Battle so that arguement is
> specious
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Oh, come on, everybody! The costumes are the same in BATTLE
> > > because they couldn't afford a new costume design. I think it's
> > > ridiculous to think that the apes costumes wouldn't evolve from
> > > BATTLE to PLANET, which is just another reason why I find BATTLE
> hard
> > > to take seriously.
> > > >
> > > > -- Rory
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > > Service.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2002 11:22 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Original vs. Altered Timeline

In a message dated 3/20/02 11:19:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

Face it, they had a lot of down time hiding. Armando (and Lewis and Stevie)
would be curious about their society. And Cornelius is an archeologist, he
can even draw one.          - - Jeff

You've been playing with your toodles too long, Jeff.  Cornelius doesn't tell Dixon that he can draw (and then that's only maps -- and we know how good Cornelius is at that!) until they're about to send the apes out to the derelict ship.  If Dixon already knew he could draw why would Cornelius tell him again?  And besides this is silly!   These drawings of apes' outfits are supposed to have survived the nuclear war and been kept by Caesar through all he goes through?!!!!   Then from that he creates patterns by which the costumes could be exactly duplicated just as they were 2000 years in the future!!!!

Jeff, go back to playing with your toodles, and leave the nutty stuff to Patrick Tilton Michael Over!

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> Like I said, "Star Wars" made $100 million just in 1978. POTA
made $100
> million it's entire merchandising career. I don't find that so hard
to
> believe. Definitely, "Star Wars" is in another moneymaking galaxy,
and
> George Lucas is one lucky dog, but POTA was there first, on a
smaller scale.
> Chewies! - - Jeff

--- In pota@y..., "Melkor" <melkor@m...> wrote:
> >That picture doesn't even jibe with the rest of the TV Series. In
the
> >two episode where they visit ruined citys; the ruins look like they
> >are from the 20th Century not the 26th. The Bart station is clearly
> >from the 20th and Burke is even able to explain the advertisments
to
> >Urko.
>
> They DID show signs of the future in the apes TV series in both of
those
> cities. The 20th century never had 'edible clothes", but Burke
explained
> that advertisement anyway to Urko in "The Earthquake". And that
Oakland
> scientist in "The Legacy" sure didn't look like he was wearing 20th
century
> style clothes. The writers did try to depict future developments,
but
> they didn't have a special effects budget to work with because that
was
> used on the apes. I thought it was a nice touch that they were
careful
> enough to show future technology, even if that technology was silly.
>
>
> >Now ask yourself, whenever you see a picture of a city in a book or
> >magazine and it identifies the name of a city with a date it is
> >usually for one of two reasons. The first being 'look what this
city
> >looked like way back when'. The second is 'Here what this city is
> >projected to look like in the future'. Maybe that's what that
picture
> >was. If it had been a contemporary picture of New York why would
> >there be any reason to identify the city and date it.
>
> Maybe the dog in the TV pilot was also fake? Burke said it was a
> photograph, not just a picture. They would obviously be able to
tell if
> it wasn't real in any case by reading what the caption said.
Virden and
> Burke outfoxed Zaius and Urko, so give them the simple credit of
being able
> to read a book. Anything can be fake if you want it to be, but the
> photograph of NYC in 2503 was intended as sufficient evidence and
not the
> only evidence shown of the TV series timeline.
>
>
>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: james611102 [JamesA1102@...]
> Sent: Thursday, 21 March 2002 1:36
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Original vs. Altered Timeline
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., MTotsky@a... wrote> >
> > Almost-elected? Isn't it George W. who wants to do that?
> >
> > Matt
>
> Yes and he did come in second in total votes.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: james611102 [JamesA1102@...]
> Sent: Thursday, 21 March 2002 4:56

>
>
> The Writer's Guild doesn't hand out screen credits like candy.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Melkor [melkor@...]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Melkor [melkor@...]
> Sent: Thursday, 21 March 2002 8:35
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] re: Cannon
>
>
>
> Then how is he going to explain the 20th century ruins of NYC seen
> in BENEATH? That the city was nuked and then rebuilt again?
>
> -Tom
>
>
> >
> >Nah, he'll try to explain it all right!!!!
> >
> >Michael
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Melkor [melkor@...]
> >Sent: Wednesday, 20 March 2002 6:43
> >
> >Do you accept the picture of New York City 500 years from now
> seen in the TV
> >pilot as "canon", or do you choose to ignore that?
> >
> >-Tom
> >
>
>
>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: james611102 [JamesA1102@...]
> Sent: Thursday, 21 March 2002 8:51
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Okay now Dehn's intentions make sense
>
>
> That's not how things work in Hollywood. Jacobs could not just give
> Dehn a story credit cause he felt like it. That would have to be
> approved by the Writer's Guild first. And I really don't thing Dehn's
> name would get more people to the theater.
> I'm not saying that Russo is a liar but according to Rory, he was
> unaware that people saw the series as a time loop; so maybe there are
> some flaws in his research. Russo was interviewing people 20 to 30
> years after the fact. Possibly the memories of those people was not
> totally accurate.

--- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:
>
> > POTA was before Star Wars but it was hardly first.
>
> Lets list all the previous sci-fi series that weren't Saturday
matinee
> serials, shall we? Uhhhh . . . uhhhhhh.....
> Oh there were lots of movies with merchandising campaigns, but not
like
> POTAs.

--- In pota@y..., MTotsky@a... wrote:
> Jeff,
>
> I like your theory regarding Cornelius: Archeologist/Fashion
Designer. It
> works for me! Phooey to those close minded individuals who dismiss
it just
> because it's the "in" thing to do.
>
> Matt

----- Original Message -----
From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 12:25 AM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Ape Collectibles


> POTA was before Star Wars but it was hardly first.
>
> --- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> > Like I said, "Star Wars" made $100 million just in 1978. POTA
> made $100
> > million it's entire merchandising career. I don't find that so hard
> to
> > believe. Definitely, "Star Wars" is in another moneymaking galaxy,
> and
> > George Lucas is one lucky dog, but POTA was there first, on a
> smaller scale.
> > Chewies! - - Jeff
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 12:29 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Cannon


> Frankly I've never considered the TV show as part of the timeline of
> the movies. It's just another take on Pierre Boule's original concept.
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., "Melkor" <melkor@m...> wrote:
> > >That picture doesn't even jibe with the rest of the TV Series. In
> the
> > >two episode where they visit ruined citys; the ruins look like they
> > >are from the 20th Century not the 26th. The Bart station is clearly
> > >from the 20th and Burke is even able to explain the advertisments
> to
> > >Urko.
> >
> > They DID show signs of the future in the apes TV series in both of
> those
> > cities. The 20th century never had 'edible clothes", but Burke
> explained
> > that advertisement anyway to Urko in "The Earthquake". And that
> Oakland
> > scientist in "The Legacy" sure didn't look like he was wearing 20th
> century
> > style clothes. The writers did try to depict future developments,
> but
> > they didn't have a special effects budget to work with because that
> was
> > used on the apes. I thought it was a nice touch that they were
> careful
> > enough to show future technology, even if that technology was silly.
> >
> >
> > >Now ask yourself, whenever you see a picture of a city in a book or
> > >magazine and it identifies the name of a city with a date it is
> > >usually for one of two reasons. The first being 'look what this
> city
> > >looked like way back when'. The second is 'Here what this city is
> > >projected to look like in the future'. Maybe that's what that
> picture
> > >was. If it had been a contemporary picture of New York why would
> > >there be any reason to identify the city and date it.
> >
> > Maybe the dog in the TV pilot was also fake? Burke said it was a
> > photograph, not just a picture. They would obviously be able to
> tell if
> > it wasn't real in any case by reading what the caption said.
> Virden and
> > Burke outfoxed Zaius and Urko, so give them the simple credit of
> being able
> > to read a book. Anything can be fake if you want it to be, but the
> > photograph of NYC in 2503 was intended as sufficient evidence and
> not the
> > only evidence shown of the TV series timeline.
> >
> >
> >

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 2:27 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Politics (OT)


> As promised:
>
> Stop fucking talking about fucking politics.
>
> Michael
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: james611102 [JamesA1102@...]
> > Sent: Thursday, 21 March 2002 1:36
> > To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Original vs. Altered Timeline
> >
> >
> > --- In pota@y..., MTotsky@a... wrote> >
> > > Almost-elected? Isn't it George W. who wants to do that?
> > >
> > > Matt
> >
> > Yes and he did come in second in total votes.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 4:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Ape Collectibles


> Just look at the James Bond series. There were not only toys for kids
> but items geared at adults as well. And they were marketing them as
> early as 1963, five years before Planet.
> What about Star Trek, they were doing toys and models from the start
> of the second season in '67. Or Doctor Who in England. There were all
> sorts of toys and games based on the Daleks and the Tardis from 1964
> on.
> POTA had a lot of mechandise. But most of it was issued starting in
> 1974 and later. Not while the films were in theaters but around the
> time of the TV series. I sometimes think FOX held back until they
> were able to buy out Jacobs so as not to share the profits.
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> >
> > > POTA was before Star Wars but it was hardly first.
> >
> > Lets list all the previous sci-fi series that weren't Saturday
> matinee
> > serials, shall we? Uhhhh . . . uhhhhhh.....
> > Oh there were lots of movies with merchandising campaigns, but not
> like
> > POTAs.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: <MTotsky@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 5:25 AM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Original vs. Altered Timeline


> Jeff,
>
> I like your theory regarding Cornelius: Archeologist/Fashion Designer. It
> works for me! Phooey to those close minded individuals who dismiss it just
> because it's the "in" thing to do.
>
> Matt
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> Do I need to draw you a diagram (or maybe Cornelius should)?
POTA: a
> sci-fi "saga" (movie sequels that continue the storyline), a
shitload of
> merchandise in a very short span of time. What other SCI-FI
franchise can
> claim the same? I'm not talking movie serials, I'm not talking
comic books,
> I'm not talking radio, I'm not talking TV, I'm talking theatrical
features.
> You could argue that "Apes" was on TV at the time but I maintain
the reason
> for all that stuff was the movie popularity (the owner of Mego
wanted the
> dolls because he saw a "Go Ape!" festival at the theatre with his
son).
> "Star Wars" did the same thing later and usually gets credit for
being the
> first. The recent publicity for "Apes" is making people realize
that. Eric
> greene said it, "Time" magazine " said it, "Star Wars" licensing
guru Steve
> Sansweet said it. Marketing classes be damned! Toodles. -
- -
> Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@a...>
> To: <pota@y...>
> Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 12:25 AM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Ape Collectibles
>
>
> > POTA was before Star Wars but it was hardly first.
> >
> > --- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> > > Like I said, "Star Wars" made $100 million just in 1978. POTA
> > made $100
> > > million it's entire merchandising career. I don't find that so
hard
> > to
> > > believe. Definitely, "Star Wars" is in another moneymaking
galaxy,
> > and
> > > George Lucas is one lucky dog, but POTA was there first, on a
> > smaller scale.
> > > Chewies! - - Jeff
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >

> "Star Trek" and "Dr. Who" were TV series. James Bond MIGHT be

> sci-fi, but it's usually classified as a spy flick. But did JB ever

> much merch in a 3 year period as "Apes"?

>Jacobs was not
> completely bought out at the time of his death, nor was "Apes"

> gleam in anyone's eye, so we're working on that.The revenge of Lisa!
> Toodles! - - - Jeff

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> Thanks, Matt. A voice of sanity. Some one should offer a
chronology class
> so James could get it. No
> - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <MTotsky@a...>
> To: <pota@y...>
> Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 5:25 AM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Original vs. Altered Timeline
>
>
> > Jeff,
> >
> > I like your theory regarding Cornelius: Archeologist/Fashion
Designer. It
> > works for me! Phooey to those close minded individuals who
dismiss it just
> > because it's the "in" thing to do.
> >
> > Matt
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >

> We know that, James. More power to you. Rory is a separatist with

> first one. More power to him.

--- In pota@y..., MTotsky@a... wrote:
> Wouldn't it be great if they released special editions of all five
DVDs with a commentary from Eric Greene explaining every single
hidden political meaning?
>
> Matt

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
And, NO, I will never leave you alone! NEVER!
>
> -- Rory

Which is what makes you so lovable Mr. M!!!!!

>> Russo, Greene,
>> and Joyce Corrington all agree that it wasn't Dehn's story, and
>Dehn's
>> story in fact had the exact opposite ending that the movie had.
>
>Just because they changed the ending doesn't mean their script wasn't
>based on his treatment. I'm not saying that they didn't make radical
>changes either but his treatment was the starting point. If it was a

>happy. Just leave those of us that don't alone.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: veetus@... [veetus@...]
> Sent: Friday, 22 March 2002 3:22
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Original vs. Altered Timeline
>
>

> - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <MTotsky@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 5:25 AM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Original vs. Altered Timeline
>
>
> > Jeff,
> >
> > I like your theory regarding Cornelius: Archeologist/Fashion
> Designer. It
> > works for me! Phooey to those close minded individuals who
> dismiss it just
> > because it's the "in" thing to do.
> >
> > Matt
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> Who's the 'they' that went to Gene Roddenberry? Roddenbury involved with
> APES. That seems a bit bizarre, but may not if you ever saw his "Earth
> II"series with John Saxon.

> Anyone played the POTA PC game? I just started playing it and it
> seems pretty cool so far.

> > The Time Machine is one of my favourite
> > films. The poor reviews are making me wonder however - which of my
> > favourite
> > films will be the next to suffer a God-awful remake?
>
> That will be . . . Journey To THe Center Of THe Earth.

> Oh, I'm not saying Battle is bad. Just, when it's compared to the

> it's the worst of the sequals. I haven't gotten around to seeing Time of

> Apes yet.

> Could you please give us your explanation (and please, in less than fifty
> thousand words) for the Klingons of the TV series and those in the films

> beyond?

> There's other things (like stuff from Apemania) that I'd love to get, but
> I've decided for now that I have enough stuff, so that's that.
>
> What about you?

> Gimme a break! It's a simple solution to a chronological problem. How

> outfits in "Planet" and "Battle" are the same. It doesn't shift

> or say things won't change for 3,000 years. Why is it a stretch to believe
> an ape could draw a costume and another ape would see it. I've seen real
> apes paint on TV! Toodles to you, sir! - - Jeff

> PS I got the Evolution set the first week of September. Watching
> Beneath that weekend and seeing the matte painting of lower
> Manhattan, I thought they got it wrong cause there was no World Trade
> Center in the shot. Eerie!!!

> Yeah, right. Records. Whatever that is. - - Jeff

> Wouldn't it be great if they released special editions of all five DVDs

> Actually another good film series to look at in this area is the

> Rathbone. The first two were made at Fox in the late thirties and

> in the Victorian era of the books, but when the series moved to

> the forties suddenly Holmes was alive during WWII. Try to explain

>
> -- Rory

> Okay you're going to think what you want, and public sources like

> Russo, Jeff Greene, and Joyce Corrington agreeing that Dehn's

> story was not used won't make any difference. But there are

> my staff who would laugh at your speculations.

> No! You keep on reading POTA posts all day and night. Don't skip

>
> -Tom

--- In pota@y..., "Alan Maxwell" <alan@a...> wrote:
>Didn't someone on this list (Rory I think, but I could >be wrong) examine
>Beneath on DVD and say that you could see it? I'm >pretty sure I remember
>someone saying that there was something resembling it.
>
>Alan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken and Heather Taylor" <ktaylor@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 11:02 AM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Questions on collectibles


> Hi Alan,
> I have these items , so I'll attempt to answer your questions:
> Hope this helps.
> Best,
> KEN
>
> 1) Were the non-movie-adapting records (i.e. Tree People, etc.) issued
only
> as records, or did they have accompanying comics too? And what were they
> based on? The TV series, the movies, the comics? Or were they brand new
> adventures with brand new characters?
>
> There were three 7' 331/3 story records based on the TV series characters:
> MOUNTAIN OF THE DELPHI
> BATTLE OF TWO WORLDS
> DAWN OF THE TREE PEOPLE
> These were records only and were released in 7inch picture sleeves.
> A 12 inch LP compilation was also released that featured the above stories
> plus a fourth story:
> VOLCANO.
> I don't have a turntable anymore so I've never heard them.
>
>
> 2) Do any of you actually own a hardback Effinger book? I've never seen
the
> HB editions anywhere.
>
> I have heard of a 'library edition' hard cover of MAN THE FUGITIVE and had
> bought a copy from a collector but it got lost in transit, so I've never
> seen it.
>
> 3) Do any of you own Lalo Schiffrin's "Ape Shuffle" 7-inch single? What is
> "Ape Shuffle"? Is it just the TV theme or a new piece of music? And what
is
> the B-side ("Escape From Tomorrow")?
>
> Yes, I have this also. The A side is the TV series theme music, I don't
know
> what's on the b side as I can't play it.
>
> 4) How many jigsaw puzzles were produced by Whitman? I've seen a few
> different ones, mostly from the TV series but at least one from Battle.
>
> There were 4 puzzles released by Whitman for the UK market:
> URKO AND GORILLA SOLDIER ON HORSEBACK
> A SCENE FROM "THE TRAP" AFTER BURKE & URKO ARE RESCUED
> A SCENE OF APES WALKING FROM 'BATTLE'
> URKO & ZAIUS FROM 'THE LEGACY' EPISODE
> HG Toys released 5 different puzzles for the US market:
> GENERAL ALDO ( in box & canister)
> CORNELIUS, ZIRA & LUCIUS ( actually CAESAR. LISA & CORNELIUS) ( in box &
> canister)
> ON PATROL ( in box & canister).
> THE CHASE ( an illustration packaged in box only)
> BATTLE ON THE PLANET OF THE APES ( an illustration packaged in box only)
> Aurora released 2 different 9ft square puzzles:
> GALEN
> ZAIUS & URKO
>
> 5) What is on the "Theme from PotA/Star Trek" record? Is it an LP or a
> single?
>
> This is an unofficial LP. I had it when I was a kid and remember the APES
> track sounding nothing like the movie OR TV series themes.
> It had sounds of apes grunting, if I remember correctly. The copy I have
now
> is still sealed, so I haven't heard it. Plus I don't have a turntable
> anyways. Here's the track listing:
> Side 1;
> THEME FROM STAR TREK
> APES SHUFFLE
> BATMAN THEME
> EARTH BOUND
> JOURNEY THROUGH SPACE
> Side 2;
> APES VICTORY DANCE
> THE APE PLANET
> STAR LIGHT
> BEYOND THE OUTER LIMITS
> SUPERMAN THEME ( as it's dated 1975, I'm not sure which theme it is,
> couldn't be the movie)
>
>
> Alan
>
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 11:28 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Ape Collectibles

In a message dated 3/21/02 7:09:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

POTA had a lot of mechandise. But most of it was issued starting in
1974 and later. Not while the films were in theaters but around the
time of the TV series. I sometimes think FOX held back until they
were able to buy out Jacobs so as not to share the profits.

No, it was because everyone got stung on "Doctor Dolittle."  Go read a book called "The Fox That Got Away" by Stephen M. Silverman.  Here's a quote from page 126:  "'That fucking Doctor Dolittle killed off merchandising tie-ins for the next decade,' said a retired Fox promotions employee in 1986. (Who I guess forgot about APES in '74.)  But, yeah, after DOCTOR DOLITTLE I'll bet Fox thought Jacobs still owed them something.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 11:31 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Ape Collectibles

In a message dated 3/21/02 12:03:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

  Do I need to draw you a diagram (or maybe Cornelius should)? POTA: a
sci-fi "saga" (movie sequels that continue the storyline), a shitload of
merchandise in a very short span of time. What other SCI-FI franchise can
claim the same? I'm not talking movie serials, I'm not talking comic books,
I'm not talking radio, I'm not talking TV, I'm talking theatrical features.
You could argue that "Apes" was on TV at the time but I maintain the reason
for all that stuff was the movie popularity (the owner of Mego wanted the
dolls because he saw a "Go Ape!" festival at the theatre with his son).
"Star Wars" did the same thing later and usually gets credit for being the
first. The recent publicity for "Apes" is making people realize that. Eric
greene said it, "Time" magazine " said it, "Star Wars" licensing guru Steve
Sansweet said it. Marketing classes be damned! Toodles.            - - -
Jeff

Relax, Jeff.  You sound like you need an enema.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

----- Original Message -----
From: <MTotsky@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 9:42 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] H.M. Wynant


> Hey,
>
> I just discovered that one of my coworkers is the brother-in-law of H.M.
Wynant who played Inspector Hoskyns in CONQUEST. I know that this isn't
Earth-shattering news, but I found it kind of cool. I will have to look at
CONQUEST when I get home just to find the scenes that Wyant was in.
>
> Matt
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 11:39 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Ape Collectibles

In a message dated 3/21/02 12:33:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

>   "Star Trek" and "Dr. Who" were TV series. James Bond MIGHT be
considered
> sci-fi, but it's usually classified as a spy flick. But did JB ever
have as
> much merch in a 3 year period as "Apes"?
Yes And probably more. If you want I can direct you to several sites
deidcated to vintage Bond merchandise from the 60s.

I remember having "Man From U.N.C.L.E." dolls when I was a kid in the sixties.  There was also a real cool radio that turned into a machine gun.  But when PLANET came out in '68 I had no dolly to play with.  Poor little Rory.  So, I had to turn my G.I. Joes into apes.  I made the faces out of clay and glued hair from Halloween masks on them.  I thought they looked pretty good.  I remember my cousin was impressed.  Hey, it gave me something to do.  I was a junior makeup man.  I kind of wish I'd good into that.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Maxwell" <alan@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 12:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] The Time Machine


> <LordTZer0@...> wrote:
> > > The Time Machine is one of my favourite
> > > films. The poor reviews are making me wonder however - which of my
> > > favourite
> > > films will be the next to suffer a God-awful remake?
> >
> > That will be . . . Journey To THe Center Of THe Earth.
>
> Don't... please don't even mention that... I love that film.
>
> I'm just glad that "I Am Legend" appears to be stuck in development hell.
>
> Alan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Maxwell" <alan@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 12:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] The Time Machine


> <LordTZer0@...> wrote:
> > > The Time Machine is one of my favourite
> > > films. The poor reviews are making me wonder however - which of my
> > > favourite
> > > films will be the next to suffer a God-awful remake?
> >
> > That will be . . . Journey To THe Center Of THe Earth.
>
> Don't... please don't even mention that... I love that film.
>
> I'm just glad that "I Am Legend" appears to be stuck in development hell.
>
> Alan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alan Maxwell [alan@...]
> Sent: Friday, 22 March 2002 6:46
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com

>
> And it has to be said... parachutist chimp? What were they thinking?!?
>
> Alan
>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken and Heather Taylor [ktaylor@...]
> Sent: Thursday, 21 March 2002 10:53
> To: Ken and Heather Taylor; pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Questions on collectibles
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ken and Heather Taylor" <ktaylor@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 11:02 AM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Questions on collectibles
>
>
> > Hi Alan,
> > I have these items , so I'll attempt to answer your questions:
> > Hope this helps.
> > Best,
> > KEN
> >
> > 1) Were the non-movie-adapting records (i.e. Tree People, etc.) issued
> only
> > as records, or did they have accompanying comics too? And what were they
> > based on? The TV series, the movies, the comics? Or were they brand new
> > adventures with brand new characters?
> >
> > There were three 7' 331/3 story records based on the TV series
> characters:
> > MOUNTAIN OF THE DELPHI
> > BATTLE OF TWO WORLDS
> > DAWN OF THE TREE PEOPLE
> > These were records only and were released in 7inch picture sleeves.
> > A 12 inch LP compilation was also released that featured the
> above stories
> > plus a fourth story:
> > VOLCANO.
> > I don't have a turntable anymore so I've never heard them.
> >
> >
> > 2) Do any of you actually own a hardback Effinger book? I've never seen
> the
> > HB editions anywhere.
> >
> > I have heard of a 'library edition' hard cover of MAN THE
> FUGITIVE and had
> > bought a copy from a collector but it got lost in transit, so I've never
> > seen it.
> >
> > 3) Do any of you own Lalo Schiffrin's "Ape Shuffle" 7-inch
> single? What is
> > "Ape Shuffle"? Is it just the TV theme or a new piece of music? And what
> is
> > the B-side ("Escape From Tomorrow")?
> >
> > Yes, I have this also. The A side is the TV series theme music, I don't
> know
> > what's on the b side as I can't play it.
> >
> > 4) How many jigsaw puzzles were produced by Whitman? I've seen a few
> > different ones, mostly from the TV series but at least one from Battle.
> >
> > There were 4 puzzles released by Whitman for the UK market:
> > URKO AND GORILLA SOLDIER ON HORSEBACK
> > A SCENE FROM "THE TRAP" AFTER BURKE & URKO ARE RESCUED
> > A SCENE OF APES WALKING FROM 'BATTLE'
> > URKO & ZAIUS FROM 'THE LEGACY' EPISODE
> > HG Toys released 5 different puzzles for the US market:
> > GENERAL ALDO ( in box & canister)
> > CORNELIUS, ZIRA & LUCIUS ( actually CAESAR. LISA & CORNELIUS) ( in box &
> > canister)
> > ON PATROL ( in box & canister).
> > THE CHASE ( an illustration packaged in box only)
> > BATTLE ON THE PLANET OF THE APES ( an illustration packaged in box only)
> > Aurora released 2 different 9ft square puzzles:
> > GALEN
> > ZAIUS & URKO
> >
> > 5) What is on the "Theme from PotA/Star Trek" record? Is it an LP or a
> > single?
> >
> > This is an unofficial LP. I had it when I was a kid and
> remember the APES
> > track sounding nothing like the movie OR TV series themes.
> > It had sounds of apes grunting, if I remember correctly. The copy I have
> now
> > is still sealed, so I haven't heard it. Plus I don't have a turntable
> > anyways. Here's the track listing:
> > Side 1;
> > THEME FROM STAR TREK
> > APES SHUFFLE
> > BATMAN THEME
> > EARTH BOUND
> > JOURNEY THROUGH SPACE
> > Side 2;
> > APES VICTORY DANCE
> > THE APE PLANET
> > STAR LIGHT
> > BEYOND THE OUTER LIMITS
> > SUPERMAN THEME ( as it's dated 1975, I'm not sure which theme it is,
> > couldn't be the movie)
> >
> >
> > Alan
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: james611102 [JamesA1102@...]
> Sent: Friday, 22 March 2002 10:16

> Does anyone ever wonder what happened to the mutant captured in Battle.

> Relax? Well, Mr. Russo refuses to watch a "Star Wars" film

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 7:12 PM

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Original vs. Altered Timeline

 

In a message dated 3/21/02 4:30:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, alan@... writes:

"james611102" <JamesA1102@...> wrote:
> PS I got the Evolution set the first week of September. Watching
> Beneath that weekend and seeing the matte painting of lower
> Manhattan, I thought they got it wrong cause there was no World Trade
> Center in the shot. Eerie!!!

Didn't someone on this list (Rory I think, but I could be wrong) examine
Beneath on DVD and say that you could see it? I'm pretty sure I remember
someone saying that there was something resembling it.

Alan

At least one of the buildings on the left of the matte painting (which I believe is supposed to be lower Manhattan) look awfully tall for 1969 New York (which is when BENEATH was in production).  Bill Creber may have known that the WTC would be up in just a couple years so had the artist, Fred Harpman possibly?, put something there.

I hope we're not going to have a big argument about this, 'cause I ain't in the mood!

-- Rory

----- Original Message -----

From: JamesA1102@...

Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 7:51 PM

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Original vs. Altered Timeline

 

Maybe so. Here's the shot from the film versus a picture I took a few years back. The angle is different so the perspectives are off. But there are enough similarities to compare.

--- In pota@y..., "Alan Maxwell" <alan@a...> wrote:
>Didn't someone on this list (Rory I think, but I could >be wrong) examine
>Beneath on DVD and say that you could see it? I'm >pretty sure I remember
>someone saying that there was something resembling it.
>
>Alan

--- In pota@y..., "Eileen Rankin" <emr1623@m...> wrote:
> peeps!!!! check your TIMELINES!!!! First tower of the WTC was
completed in 1970...second one didn't come around till 1972. If the
movie was released in 1970, then filming was probably 1969... no WTC
(or at least a bunch of scaffolds and cranes and I-Beams).
>
> Eileen

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 3:52 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] The Time Machine

In a message dated 3/22/02 12:49:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

  Oh, "I Am Legend". Looks like it's going ahead. The road block was
Ah-nuld, but he's agreed to produce, so Will Smith can star and Michael bay
can direct. Bay won't rest until he remakes a Heston flick. He was in line
to do "Apes" at one point (and Heston did the narration for "Armageddumb").
You heard Ah-nuld is remaking "Westworld" ? As well as a new "Conan" and
"T3", all for Warner Bros. That Ah-nuld, always blazing new trails. Bleep! -
Jeff

I can't wait to read Alan's comments on this!   Anyway, am I the only one who is really, really sick of Will Smith?   Talk about a ego!  If he wins the Academy Award this year (He won't!), I think his head will explode!   Anyway, this "I Am Legend" remake will suck harder than that chimpette in "Playmate of the Apes."

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

----- Original Message -----
From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 5:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Ape Collectibles


> --- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> > Relax? Well, Mr. Russo refuses to watch a "Star Wars" film
> because he feels it took the credit POTA deserves. He's never seen
> a "Star Wars" movie. And since everyone likes to quote Joe Russo,
> allow me: He dedicates the book to Jacobs, who "helped change the way
> science fiction films were made and accepted". That's what I was
> getting at James; POTA was first.
> Blzzzt! - - Jeff
>
>
> Changed the way Science Fiction films were made??? You mean making
> each sequel cheaper and more lame than the last rather than bigger
> and better as they started doing after Star Wars in 1977?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

>
> 10TH ANNUAL GRAND SLAM STAR TREK CONVENTION
> SHOW HOURS--NOON til 6:00 PM DAILEY
>
> PASADENA , CALIFORNIA
> MARCH 22-24 2002
> 300 E. GREEN STREET
> PASADENA CENTER
>
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Eileen Rankin

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 7:06 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Original vs. Altered Timeline

peeps!!!! check your TIMELINES!!!!  First tower of the WTC was completed in 1970...second one didn't come around till 1972.  If the movie was released in 1970, then filming was probably 1969... no WTC (or at least a bunch of scaffolds and cranes and I-Beams).

 

Eileen 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: JamesA1102@...

Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 7:51 PM

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Original vs. Altered Timeline

 

Maybe so. Here's the shot from the film versus a picture I took a few years back. The angle is different so the perspectives are off. But there are enough similarities to compare.

--- In pota@y..., "Alan Maxwell" <alan@a...> wrote:
>Didn't someone on this list (Rory I think, but I could >be wrong) examine
>Beneath on DVD and say that you could see it? I'm >pretty sure I remember
>someone saying that there was something resembling it.
>
>Alan


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

> Mr. Russo refuses to watch a "Star Wars" film ... He's never seen

>

> And I bet you
> there would be no "Star Wars" without "Apes".

> Jeff

> The "Beneath" skyline looks different. I think they supposed

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> The "Beneath" skyline looks different. I think they supposed
future changes. Despite James' theories I don't think they assumed a
20th Century Fall of Man at that
point. - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Eileen Rankin
> To: pota@y...
> Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 7:06 AM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Original vs. Altered
Timeline
>
>
> peeps!!!! check your TIMELINES!!!! First tower of the WTC was
completed in 1970...second one didn't come around till 1972. If the
movie was released in 1970, then filming was probably 1969... no WTC
(or at least a bunch of scaffolds and cranes and I-Beams).
>
> Eileen
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: JamesA1102@a...
> Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2002 7:51 PM
> To: pota@y...
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Original vs. Altered Timeline
>
> Maybe so. Here's the shot from the film versus a picture I took
a few years back. The angle is different so the perspectives are off.
But there are enough similarities to compare.
>
> --- In pota@y..., "Alan Maxwell" <alan@a...> wrote:
> >Didn't someone on this list (Rory I think, but I could >be
wrong) examine
> >Beneath on DVD and say that you could see it? I'm >pretty sure
I remember
> >someone saying that there was something resembling it.
> >
> >Alan
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.

--- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:
>
> >
> > You're right, James. Each "Star Wars" movie gets better.
>
> The sarcasm detector's off the scale!

> -----Original Message-----
> From: james611102 [JamesA1102@...]
> Sent: Saturday, 23 March 2002 3:13
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Original vs. Altered Timeline
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> > The "Beneath" skyline looks different. I think they supposed
> future changes. Despite James' theories I don't think they assumed a
> 20th Century Fall of Man at that
> point. - - Jeff
>
> Then how do you explain the dial phone in the subway station or the
> bus or Heston's line about the bomb. What in the film suggests that
> it was later than the 20th Century?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> James,
>
> How do you explain the date reading on the ship in Beneath? YOU

> Yes, there was a dial phone, but at the time they may have had no

> technology would change and therefore the dial phone is just proof

> Beneath was sloppy, not that it was the 20th Century.
>
> Michael