----- Original Message -----
From: <whitty@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 5:44 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] STAR TREK 1 (OT)


> I HAVE NOT YET HAD TIME TO WATCH IT BUT I DID BUY THE DVD ABOUT 3
> WEEKS AGO1!
>
> WHAT ARE THE MAIN DIFFERENCES?
>
> Michael
>
> -- "james611102" <JamesA1102@...> wrote:
> > The Director's Cut of the first Star Trek film on DVD is a far
> > different film than what was released in theaters. It's a much
> > better film now, faster moving with a better focas on the story.
> >
> > --- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> > > Yes, that's exactly my comparison. "Star Trek" #1 tried to do a
> > splashy
> > > reinvention with a big budget and a big director who didn't know
> a
> > thing
> > > about what made it tick (Paramount had 3 people they wanted
> > for "Star Trek":
> > > Spielberg, Lucas or Robert Wise). It became a bloated pseudo epic
> > that
> > > disappointed, just like a favorite reimagination of ours. It even
> > had a
> > > similar reveal. Remember when wipe off the crud and V'ger becomes
> > Voyager?
> > > Just like Calima became "Caution: Whatever It Said". What they
> > need to do is
> > > do smaller budgets and good stories. Smaller budget in that
> that's
> > the only
> > > way they'll have the confidence to not second guess it.
> > > - - - Jeff
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Melkor" <melkor@m...>
> > > To: <pota@y...>
> > > Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 3:09 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] "Apes 2" Buh bye?
> > >
> > >
> > > > I'm hoping they can pull a "Star Trek" with the POTA
> franchise.
> > The
> > > > first Trek movie wasn't very good but they went in a different
> > direction
> > > > with Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan with our friend Armando
> and
> > it
> > > revived
> > > > the Trek franchise for 20 years.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > "Alien" 3 and 4 were killed by the same thing as POTA2001,
> > studio
> > > > >pressure. The first 2 were under the radar but the last 2 were
> > big
> > > > >franchises and second guessed to death. Ironically, even
> though
> > it was so
> > > > >long between installments, when they decided to do them they
> > were still
> > > > >rushed. Just as POTA2001 took 10 years in development and when
> > they
> > > decided
> > > > >to do it they still rushed it. Maybe, like you say, this is
> > better where
> > > > >it's not a priority. But "Alien" is not dead. "Alien vs.
> > Predator" is on
> > > the
> > > > >boards. Etc. - - Jeff
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > >From: "Melkor" <melkor@m...>
> > > > >To: <pota@y...>
> > > > >Sent: Friday, July 05, 2002 3:25 AM
> > > > >Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] "Apes 2" Buh bye? (partly OT)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >>
> > > > >> This is probably a good sign. Maybe Zanuck is getting a clue
> > that he
> > > knows
> > > > >> POTA 2001 sucked, and if he blows it a second time it will
> > sink the
> > > > >franchise.
> > > > >> Probably the worst thing they could do is rush out a sequel
> > that is
> > > > >similiar
> > > > >> to the first film.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >

----- Original Message -----
From: <veetus@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 3:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] STAR TREK 1 (OT)


> STOP YELLING! The main difference is you get to see Spock cry.
> - - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <whitty@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 5:44 PM
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] STAR TREK 1 (OT)
>
>
> > I HAVE NOT YET HAD TIME TO WATCH IT BUT I DID BUY THE DVD ABOUT 3
> > WEEKS AGO1!
> >
> > WHAT ARE THE MAIN DIFFERENCES?
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > -- "james611102" <JamesA1102@...> wrote:
> > > The Director's Cut of the first Star Trek film on DVD is a far
> > > different film than what was released in theaters. It's a much
> > > better film now, faster moving with a better focas on the story.
> > >
> > > --- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> > > > Yes, that's exactly my comparison. "Star Trek" #1 tried to do a
> > > splashy
> > > > reinvention with a big budget and a big director who didn't know
> > a
> > > thing
> > > > about what made it tick (Paramount had 3 people they wanted
> > > for "Star Trek":
> > > > Spielberg, Lucas or Robert Wise). It became a bloated pseudo epic
> > > that
> > > > disappointed, just like a favorite reimagination of ours. It even
> > > had a
> > > > similar reveal. Remember when wipe off the crud and V'ger becomes
> > > Voyager?
> > > > Just like Calima became "Caution: Whatever It Said". What they
> > > need to do is
> > > > do smaller budgets and good stories. Smaller budget in that
> > that's
> > > the only
> > > > way they'll have the confidence to not second guess it.
> > > > - - - Jeff
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Melkor" <melkor@m...>
> > > > To: <pota@y...>
> > > > Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 3:09 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] "Apes 2" Buh bye?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I'm hoping they can pull a "Star Trek" with the POTA
> > franchise.
> > > The
> > > > > first Trek movie wasn't very good but they went in a different
> > > direction
> > > > > with Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan with our friend Armando
> > and
> > > it
> > > > revived
> > > > > the Trek franchise for 20 years.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > "Alien" 3 and 4 were killed by the same thing as POTA2001,
> > > studio
> > > > > >pressure. The first 2 were under the radar but the last 2 were
> > > big
> > > > > >franchises and second guessed to death. Ironically, even
> > though
> > > it was so
> > > > > >long between installments, when they decided to do them they
> > > were still
> > > > > >rushed. Just as POTA2001 took 10 years in development and when
> > > they
> > > > decided
> > > > > >to do it they still rushed it. Maybe, like you say, this is
> > > better where
> > > > > >it's not a priority. But "Alien" is not dead. "Alien vs.
> > > Predator" is on
> > > > the
> > > > > >boards. Etc. - - Jeff
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > > > >From: "Melkor" <melkor@m...>
> > > > > >To: <pota@y...>
> > > > > >Sent: Friday, July 05, 2002 3:25 AM
> > > > > >Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] "Apes 2" Buh bye? (partly OT)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> This is probably a good sign. Maybe Zanuck is getting a clue
> > > that he
> > > > knows
> > > > > >> POTA 2001 sucked, and if he blows it a second time it will
> > > sink the
> > > > > >franchise.
> > > > > >> Probably the worst thing they could do is rush out a sequel
> > > that is
> > > > > >similiar
> > > > > >> to the first film.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >

> I wish I did. It was around the time when Fox was bringing all the

> to TV, just ahead of the actual TV series debut.

> I have a couple issues of the British Marvel mag. Did it contain

> comics? I thought it only had reprints of the USA Marvel mag.

----- Original Message -----
From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 6:21 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] What's your favorite?


> Since it's pretty quiet today I thought I'd ask some questions I've
> been thinking about for sometime.
>
> Who's your favorite character of each species:
>
> Chimpanzee?
>
>
> Orangutan?
>
>
> Gorilla?
>
>
> Human?
>
>
> Mutant?
>
>
> Favorite overall character?
>
>
> Favorite Ape costume?
>
>
> Favorite Villan?
>
>
> Favorite Hero?
>
>
> Favorite Setting? (i.e. Ape City in Planet, Futuristic City in
> Conquest, etc.)
>
>
> Favorite Music Score?
>
>
> Favorite Openning Titles?
>
>
> Please feel free to add to the list.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

>>Who's your favorite character of each species:
> >
> > Chimpanzee? Galen
>>
> >
> > Orangutan? Dr. Zaius
> >
> >
> > Gorilla? Ursus
> >
> >
> > Human? Armando
> >
> >
> > Mutant? Caspay
> >
> >
> > Favorite overall character? Dr. Zaius
> >
> >
> > Least-favorite character? Kolp
> >
> >
> > Favorite Ape costume? Ursus
> >
> >
> > Favorite Villan? Dr. Zaius/Second Runner-up Breck
> >
> >
> > Favorite Hero? Caeser
> >
> >
> > Favorite Setting? (i.e. Ape City in Planet, Futuristic City in
> > Conquest, etc.)
> >
> > Ape City in Planet & Beneath
> >
> >
> >
> > Favorite Music Score? Planet/Second Runner-up Conquest
> >
> >
> > Favorite Opening Titles? Conquest/Second Runner-up Escape
> >
> >
> > Favorite Movie Poster? Planet/Second Runner-up Battle
> >

> Setting: Forbidden City on TV show

> Since it's pretty quiet today I thought I'd ask some questions I've
> been thinking about for sometime.
>
> Who's your favorite character of each species:
>
> Chimpanzee? Caesar, because he tries to do what's right.
>
>
> Orangutan? The Lawgiver. Keeping track of history on every lane.
>
>
> Gorilla? Julius. The only Gorilla Training Academy dropout.
>
>
> Human? Taylor. Always looking for something better.
>
>
> Mutant? Kolp. Led an army without spilling a drop of charisma.
>
>
> Favorite overall character? Taylor. Kept the flags of discontent flying.
>
>
> Favorite Ape costume? Hunt Leader. All those glyphs must mean something.
>
>
> Favorite Villan? Hasslein's Interrogator played by Albert Salmi. Very
> intelligent questions.
>
>
> Favorite Hero? Taylor again
>
>
> Favorite Setting? (i.e. Ape City in Planet, Futuristic City in
> Conquest, etc.) Ape City in Planet
>
>
> Favorite Music Score? Planet of the Apes by Jerry Goldsmith. Doesn't
> sound like human music.
>
>
> Favorite Openning Titles? TV Series.
>
>
> Please feel free to add to the list.

----- Original Message -----
From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 7:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] What's your favorite?


> --- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> > Setting: Forbidden City on TV show
>
> Which one Oakland or San Francisco?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----

From: mlccougar@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 8:19 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Adding to the Favorites/Least favorites list..

In a message dated 7/9/2002 8:48:36 PM Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

Least-favorite character?      Virgil  )

Gotta go along with that... Good choice. (But the choice of Kolp was damn close...)

And let me add:

Favorite episode: I can't pin it down to one absolute favorite

Least Favorite episode: "The Horse Race" (I'm saying it again, though some may or may not remember I mentioned this when the tv series came out on dvd.)

Favorite Guest APE on the tv series:ABORO

Favorite APES movie moments: The ENTIRE "Planet" movie... And these individual (non original film scenes) come to mind... The Ursus speech, The bleeding Lawgiver (illusion) scene, and Zaius smashing the mutant busts

I'm sure I'll think of more faves/ least faves later...
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

--- In pota@y..., "Anthony B. McElveen" <abmac@i...> wrote:
> You're still locked into that two-choice mentality. How many modern
> bridges have you seen made of bricks? Well, they're not carved from
> solid rock, either. There are OTHER choices.
>
> The apes have a different design aesthetic. That doesn't mean they can't have advanced building techniques.
>
> Anthony B. McElveen
>
> On Sunday, July 7, 2002, at 11:57 AM, patrickmichaeltilton wrote:
>
> > *** What about those causeways, like the one the netted Taylor is hoisted over? Are you suggesting that they glued bricks together and made 'em that way? Would that be sturdy enough for a runaway human and a bunch of nasty gorillas to dash around on? I don't buy it... but, hey, if it works for you, power to ya.
>
> > Patrick

> Very good points cougar. It's never stated in the films or TV show
> that either city is carved rock.
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., mlccougar@a... wrote:
> > They BUILT those dwellings in Planet. They didn't "carve them out
> of rock."
> > And don't forget, the buildings in Central City are the same style / design / architecture as those in Planet's city of the Apes. Are you implying that Central City is "carved out of rock" too??
> >
> > The idea for the "look" of the Ape's city came from that "carved in rock" troglodyte city Mr. Creber seen in the book. Nowhere that I know of did he say it was intended that the Ape's dwellings were to be the same. He just liked the strange look of the carved city and adopted that for Apes.

----- Original Message -----
From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 5:23 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Carved, not built.


> --- In pota@y..., "james611102" <JamesA1102@a...> wrote:
> > Very good points cougar. It's never stated in the films or TV show
> > that either city is carved rock.
> >
> >
> > --- In pota@y..., mlccougar@a... wrote:
> > > They BUILT those dwellings in Planet. They didn't "carve them out
> > of rock."
> > > And don't forget, the buildings in Central City are the same style /
design / architecture as those in Planet's city of the Apes. Are you
implying that Central City is "carved out of rock" too??
> > >
> > > The idea for the "look" of the Ape's city came from that "carved in
rock" troglodyte city Mr. Creber seen in the book. Nowhere that I know of
did he say it was intended that the Ape's dwellings were to be the same. He
just liked the strange look of the carved city and adopted that for Apes.
>
> *** Why would they have to state in the films or TV show that either
> city is carved out of rock? Why state the OBVIOUS? Cities which LOOK
> like they were carved out of the rock--why belabor the fact by having
> some character say in a useless line of dialogue that they actually
> WERE carved rock?
> As regards the Central City architectural style, yes I DO think that
> it--like PLANET & BENEATH's "Ape City"--was ALSO carved out of rock.
> The idea that the Apes have some kind of "advanced" techniques of
> constructing things is ludicrous: they whole POINT of the set design
> of PLANET was to emphasize the fact that this is a MORE PRIMITIVE
> SOCIETY than our own. Originally, PLANET was going to be set in a
> "modern" kind of society (just as Boulle's novel was), with cars,
> helicopters, airplanes, etc. In order to cut down on costs (i.e.
> designing "alien" cars, helicopters, etc.), they decided to make the
> Ape culture MORE PRIMITIVE than ours, in a "horse-and-buggy" stage of
> technological development. This choice was justified, in the end, by
> the thematic thrust of the plot: that the Apes (Zaius and his ilk, the
> ones in charge) had a profound DISTRUST of higher technology, and
> purposely kept their society in a lower state ["Why must Knowledge
> stand still? What about the Future?" asks Lucius; Zaius: "I may just
> have saved it..."]. This "luddite" mentality was meant to hold back
> the impetus of technological development, keeping the Apes in a "dark
> age" so as to ward off the possibility of there being ANOTHER
> CATASTROPHE like that which wiped out the prior Human civilization.
> Carving dwelling places out of solid rock is, perhaps, the OLDEST form
> of "housing construction" ever done (the Cappodocian troglydyte city
> is thought to be, by some, older than the Sumerian cities). Now, it
> may be a "fad" for modern day people to "dress up" in the garb of
> prior ages (like at Renaissance festivals, or Bible-based "theme"
> parks), but for a society (i.e. the Apes) to purposely create a "faux
> Stone Age" dwelling using alleged "advanced" methods is a notion I
> find ridiculous.
> But, hey, James & Mlccougar... go ahead and think what you want to
> think.
>
> Patrick Michael Tilton
> EARTH-TIME 7-10-2002
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--- In pota@y..., "james611102" <JamesA1102@a...> wrote:
> You just love to twist other people's words. You should go into
> politics. Once again I never said Ape City, I said the greenbelt.
> And I have yet to see you what area you think its supposed to be.
>
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@y...>
> wrote:
> *** I'm "...neglecting... topographical shifts..." (etc.)? But you just said, above, that the region is still "very similar". Which is it? Either it's still "very similar" to what it is NOW, or it became "drastically different" due to the Nuke War, "topographical shifts" (hey! that sounds fishily like my "pole shift" scenario!), etc.
> Yeah, I'll "use" your attached map... and what does it show? You have the name "Ape City" all in red--to the LEFT of where you said the "Forbidden City" was. If LEFT equals WEST (as you interpret the map), then that furthermore proves that you've contradicted yourself in the space of only a few postings, where you said that the "green area" where Cornelius said Taylor was captured was the direction Kolp's scout followed Caesar--the supposedly "shortest way" to get back to Ape City!
> >
> > Patrick

--- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> Shock me. I always thought you were so flexible Patrick.
>
> Did anyone here take debating at school? You know, where they give you a topic like "The Earth is Flat" and you go about presenting an argument? And the winner can be going on about a crock, but they win because they made it more convincing.
>
> Well, with Patrick it is all a debate. If you think other than what he says, he will go about trying to "win" the debate, and boy is he motivated! He with mathematically PROVE that the earth is flat, and instead of then realising how silly that was (ie, mathematics is a poor choice of tool because it just proved something CONTRARY to fact), he will invite you to use mathematics to prove your ideas and claim you might LACK logic if you can't.
>
> And he loves to argue. C'mon, you know it.
>
> I would suggest this:
>
> When he says something reasonable, PRAISE HIM!!! Let him know how wonderful that feels.
>
> When he says silly things, IGNORE HIM!!!!
>
> Positive reinforcement.
>
> Might work.....
>
> Michael
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@y...]
> > Sent: Monday, 8 July 2002 1:42
> > To: pota@y...
> > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: re:Timeline issues
> >
> And what "point" should I "concede": that your view somehow is right? Not a
> chance!
> >

>
> > Caius Iulius Cæsar
>
> Uhhh, okay.
>
> How do you get that ae thingy on yout computer?

>
> >However, ever since reading Eric Lerner's book "THE BIG BANG NEVER

>
> You being a big sucker for crackpot theories explains some of your own POTA concoctions.
>
>
> >Both the Bible and the Big Bang theory maintain that there WAS a "beginning"--but the Plasma Cosmology theory is that the Universe has ALWAYS existed, and that there never WAS a primordial "singularity"

>
> There is a reason why the "Big Bang" theory has completely replaced the earlier "Steady State" theory you just described. There are reasons why both the Steady State theory of the universe and the Gold Standard financial system have both been discredited. If you want to peddle your views to the approproate internet groups in each case I bet someone will actually bother to explain to you in detail why both of those ideas are obsolete.

> No matter how you cut it, either you believe in God or not. There can b=

--- In pota@y..., "Ken and Heather Taylor" <ktaylor@z...> wrote:
> Hey, I've got a theory...who cares?

On Wednesday, July 10, 2002, at 03:45 AM, patrickmichaeltilton wrote:

> Although this posting is supposedly "OT" ["off topic"], I'd like to
> share one little nugget of POTA-related info. The "name" of the
> character "Hasslein"/"Haßlein" is NOT listed in any German dictionary
> of Names that I've ever seen. I doubt if there is or ever was a person
> who actually had "Hasslein" for a last name. Why Serling/Wilson came
> up with "Hasslein's Theory..." rather than just using the name
> "Einstein" is another debate.
> I looked up the "name"/word "Hasslein" in a German-to-English
> dictionary and didn't find it... but I DID find the word "haß"/"hass",
> which means HATE, or Anger. There was no indication in either PLANET
> or BENEATH that this "Hasslein" character was in any way a "hateful"
> person... but in ESCAPE, Otto Hasslein's "hatred" for the Ape-onauts
> is established, as well as a justification for that hatred (his fear
> that their progeny will reduce Humanity to a state of servitude and
> savagery).
> On page 386 of "The Encyclopedia of the Third Reich", I found this
> rather interesting passage:
>
> Hass (Hass), the most extreme degree of dislike or aversion,
> revalued positively in National Socialist usage as "heroic hate,"
> because it derived from a "consciousness of duty and responsibility"
> and expressed "inexorable," "honest," and "courageous HARDNESS"
> (Meyers Lexikon, 1938). Contingent on heredity, such hate was
> imaginable only in the "Nordic race" and stood in "the most extreme
> opposition" to the "cowardly hate of Jewdom."
>
> It's too bad that Serling (and Wilson, too?) isn't alive to ask what
> he was thinking when he made up the "name" of "Hasslein". As it
> stands, the "name" is a conjunction of the two German words "haß"
> ["hate"] and "lein" ["line, lineage"], which suggests "lineage of
> Hate" or "bloodline of Hate, that "hate" being--perhaps--the Nazi
> ideal of "righteous" Hatred: the attitude which allowed them to use
> their "Will" to commit acts of Genocide.
>
> Patrick Michael Tilton
> EARTH-TIME 7-10-2002

> Which character defines POTA for you (which couldn't you imagine it
> without?)

> Really? I get no dipthogs or Susse's or anything.
> But that's AOL for you. All my alts are AOL crap.

> Funny, I never think of Dr. Zaius (I assume you're talking Maurice

> a villain. I feel rather sorry for him. I don't think there is a

> PLANET. Everybody is trying to do what they think is right.

> Who's your favorite character of each species:
> Chimpanzee? CAESAR
> Orangutan? ZAIUS
> Gorilla? URSUS
> Human? TAYLOR
> Mutant? The fat guy, can't remember his name, played by Victor Bueno
> Favorite overall character? TAYLOR
> Favorite Ape costume? URSUS (just love Breck's all black look

> Favorite Villan? BRECK
> Favorite Hero? I'm going to agree with Jeff, there really aren't

> Favorite Setting? (i.e. Ape City in Planet, Futuristic City in
> Conquest, etc.) CONQUEST CITY
> Favorite Music Score? ORIGINAL by GOLDSMITH - BENEATH a close

> Favorite Openning Titles? PLANET was good, but CONQUEST shades it

> And let me add:
> Favorite episode: THE TRAP
> Least Favorite episode: UP ABOVE THE WORLD SO HIGH
> Favorite Guest APE on the tv series: The female ape from THE

> Favorite APES movie moments:

> > > Favorite Movie Poster?

I agree with all of your choices. Minus one, Zira and Ari are a tie in my case. :o)

Thy

  LordTZer0@... wrote:

Chimpanzee?

Zira of course, with Ari a close second

Orangutan?
The Orangette in the book shop.  She's . . . one of a kind!

Gorilla?
Ursus  He's so over the top!

Human?
Nova  Daena would be nice too, if she could just take a page from Nova's book and learn to shut the hell up!

Mutant?
uhh... I guess that mutant chick with Klob.  Not big on mutants.

Favorite overall character?
Zira  Of course!

Favorite Ape costume?
Zira #1  The was that green had browns and oranges in it was just amazing.  Her Escape one was too green.  But her human out fit was very smart and stylish.

Favorite Villain?
Ursus.  He was so bad he was good.  And he wasn't pure evil like Thade.  He wasn't mean because his main squeeze dumped him!  He was mean because he was trying to feed his people.  That and he was just mean.

Favorite Hero?
Zira  She really went out on a limb for Taylor.  No pun intended.  And did all she could to protect her child.  Then again she could have just cut out Taylor's brain and save everyone a lot of trouble.  It wouldn't have made a very interesting story though.  You'd have had enough material for a Twilight Zone episode or a Tales from the Crypt.

Favorite Setting? (i.e., Ape City in Planet, Futuristic City in
Conquest, etc.)
Ape City.  I'd love to stroll it's streets.  Check out its museums.  Buy some exotic produce in its markets.  Swim in the lake.  Ahhhh. 

Favorite Music Score?

> > Favorite Villain? Dr. Zaius/Second Runner-up Breck
>>
>
>Funny, I never think of Dr. Zaius (I assume you're talking Maurice Evans) as
>a villain. I feel rather sorry for him. I don't think there is a villain in
>PLANET. Everybody is trying to do what they think is right.
>
>-- Rory

> -----Original Message-----
> From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, 10 July 2002 18:24
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Tactics, Shmactics
>
>
> *** You mean, playing "devil's advocate"? The only problem with that
> is that by trying to "out-debate" the opposing side when you KNOW that
> your own side is false, requires ignoring at least SOME of the
> evidence--the evidence which disproves your own side. If I were to
> take up James' side on the Map Debate, I would have to do just what HE
> has done: brush off Cornelius' remark about Taylor being "towards the
> NORTH" (in BENEATH) as being nothing more than "a vague line".
> Unfortunately, there's nothing "vague" about it, and if you have to
> take it into account, it forces you to re-think what the Map is
> telling us.
> You imply, below, that I'm the one here trying to "mathematically
> PROVE that the earth is flat". Did YOU take debating at school? As
> I've mentioned before, that is the classic "Straw man" argument--you
> pretend that I stand for something patently ridiculous, point out the
> ridiculousness of that position (which I do NOT hold, but which you
> try to get others to think I do), and then spuriously regard ANYTHING
> I might believe which is contrary to your belief to be innately
> ridiculous. I don't believe in the "Flat Earth" theory, and there's
> absolutely no way to "prove" it mathematically--another fallacy of
> your logic. You like to dismiss Math when it cannot serve your
> purposes, but as any professional scientist will tell you... if you
> can't put it into Numbers, it ain't Science. The reason we no longer
> believe in the "Four Elements" of Earth, Air, Water, and Fire, and
> believe instead in the Periodic Table of Elements is because the lab
> workers who devised it had to do so in a way that made sense out of
> the numbers in their experiments. The elements are what they are
> because of strict mathematical rules--the number of protons, the
> valence of each element, which element can chemically combine with
> another, etc. The chain reaction which produces nuclear explosions was
> worked out with strict mathematics--you can't just ignore the Numbers,
> when you're concocting ANY theory; you have to be able to make SENSE
> of the numbers in order for your theory to be USEFUL.
> And that's the whole point of my own "modus operandi" regarding the
> POTA saga; I'm writing a novel which has--as source material--5 movies
> and 14 TV episodes which have SPECIFIC mathematical material in them,
> material which is--at first glance--merely a bunch of "mistakes"
> ("flubs"). My scenario is like a SCIENTIFIC theory which makes sense
> out of the raw data, so that the numbers DO have relevance.
> To give an example: recently, some have posted that they feel the
> "Breeding Annex" chimpanzee female (from CONQUEST) with whom Caesar
> mates IS Lisa (and not some OTHER female chimp), and that the child
> born from that impregnation is Cornelius (the boy chimp in BATTLE).
> And yet, in BATTLE Mandemus tells Caesar that he has been the Keeper
> of the Armory "for TWENTY-SEVEN YEARS..." and previously MacDonald has
> pointed out that Mandemus "may be old, but his MIND is as SHARP AS A
> RAZOR." If Mandemus' mind is so "sharp", why would he say he's been
> living in that Armory for 27 years, when Cornelius absolutely can NOT
> be that old? Either Mandemus is deranged regarding the amount of time
> he's been living in and guarding Caesar's stash of weapons (and WHY
> would Caesar allow a deranged old ape to carry out that task?), or
> Cornelius can NOT have been conceived by Lisa in the Breeding Annex
> scene in CONQUEST. Logically, Mandemus must be telling the truth when
> he states that "27 years" line, which dates BATTLE at circa 2018 A.D.
> (1991 + 27), at the earliest. Logically, too, Cornelius--a mere boy in
> BATTLE--cannot have been conceived during the events of CONQUEST,
> since he's not 27 years old--so that the female chimp in the Breeding
> Annex, even IF she too were portrayed by Natalie Trundy, cannot also
> be Lisa--at least, Cornelius cannot have been conceived then. Maybe a
> FIRSTBORN, other child could have been born to Lisa (if, that is, this
> is Lisa) then... but not Cornelius.
> Then again, there are those who just want to ignore the "27 years"
> line, and concoct a Timeline which doesn't have to deal with that
> "ugly fact" which ruins an otherwise "beautiful theory". Being so
> selective with the "evidence" is NOT how anybody gets to "the Truth".
> Not in my book.
>
> Patrick Michael Tilton
> EARTH-TIME 7-10-2002
>
> --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > Shock me. I always thought you were so flexible Patrick.
> >
> > Did anyone here take debating at school? You know, where they
> give you a topic like "The Earth is Flat" and you go about
> presenting an argument? And the winner can be going on about a
> crock, but they win because they made it more convincing.
> >
> > Well, with Patrick it is all a debate. If you think other than
> what he says, he will go about trying to "win" the debate, and
> boy is he motivated! He with mathematically PROVE that the earth
> is flat, and instead of then realising how silly that was (ie,
> mathematics is a poor choice of tool because it just proved
> something CONTRARY to fact), he will invite you to use
> mathematics to prove your ideas and claim you might LACK logic if
> you can't.
> >
> > And he loves to argue. C'mon, you know it.
> >
> > I would suggest this:
> >
> > When he says something reasonable, PRAISE HIM!!! Let him know
> how wonderful that feels.
> >
> > When he says silly things, IGNORE HIM!!!!
> >
> > Positive reinforcement.
> >
> > Might work.....
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@y...]
> > > Sent: Monday, 8 July 2002 1:42
> > > To: pota@y...
> > > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: re:Timeline issues
> > >
> > And what "point" should I "concede": that your view somehow is
> right? Not a
> > chance!
> > >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> Who's your favorite character of each species:
>
> Chimpanzee?

> Orangutan?

> Gorilla?

> Human?

> Mutant?

> Favorite overall character?

> Favorite Ape costume?

> Favorite Villan?

> Favorite Hero?

> Favorite Setting? (i.e. Ape City in Planet, Futuristic City in
> Conquest, etc.)

> Favorite Music Score?

> Favorite Openning Titles?

-----Original Message-----
From: Haristas@... [Haristas@...]
Sent: Thursday, 11 July 2002 0:48
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] What's your favorite?

In a message dated 7/9/02 10:45:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

> Favorite Villain?  Dr. Zaius/Second Runner-up Breck

Funny, I never think of Dr. Zaius (I assume you're talking Maurice Evans) as a villain.  I feel rather sorry for him.  I don't think there is a villain in PLANET.  Everybody is trying to do what they think is right.

-- Rory
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Anthony B. McElveen [abmac@...]
> Sent: Thursday, 11 July 2002 3:46
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] OT: Roman spelling... and a POTA
> nugget of joy
>
>
> A simple search on Google turns up George Hasslein, Dean, School of
> Architecture, California Polytechnic State University. There is also a
> student at University of Georgia's Terry College of Business named
> Christian Hasslein. I didn't look any further because I didn't need to.
> Maybe you should check the real world before you make your next
> pronouncement.
>
> Anthony B. McElveen
>
> On Wednesday, July 10, 2002, at 03:45 AM, patrickmichaeltilton wrote:
>
> > Although this posting is supposedly "OT" ["off topic"], I'd like to
> > share one little nugget of POTA-related info. The "name" of the
> > character "Hasslein"/"Haßlein" is NOT listed in any German dictionary
> > of Names that I've ever seen. I doubt if there is or ever was a person
> > who actually had "Hasslein" for a last name. Why Serling/Wilson came
> > up with "Hasslein's Theory..." rather than just using the name
> > "Einstein" is another debate.
> > I looked up the "name"/word "Hasslein" in a German-to-English
> > dictionary and didn't find it... but I DID find the word "haß"/"hass",
> > which means HATE, or Anger. There was no indication in either PLANET
> > or BENEATH that this "Hasslein" character was in any way a "hateful"
> > person... but in ESCAPE, Otto Hasslein's "hatred" for the Ape-onauts
> > is established, as well as a justification for that hatred (his fear
> > that their progeny will reduce Humanity to a state of servitude and
> > savagery).
> > On page 386 of "The Encyclopedia of the Third Reich", I found this
> > rather interesting passage:
> >
> > Hass (Hass), the most extreme degree of dislike or aversion,
> > revalued positively in National Socialist usage as "heroic hate,"
> > because it derived from a "consciousness of duty and responsibility"
> > and expressed "inexorable," "honest," and "courageous HARDNESS"
> > (Meyers Lexikon, 1938). Contingent on heredity, such hate was
> > imaginable only in the "Nordic race" and stood in "the most extreme
> > opposition" to the "cowardly hate of Jewdom."
> >
> > It's too bad that Serling (and Wilson, too?) isn't alive to ask what
> > he was thinking when he made up the "name" of "Hasslein". As it
> > stands, the "name" is a conjunction of the two German words "haß"
> > ["hate"] and "lein" ["line, lineage"], which suggests "lineage of
> > Hate" or "bloodline of Hate, that "hate" being--perhaps--the Nazi
> > ideal of "righteous" Hatred: the attitude which allowed them to use
> > their "Will" to commit acts of Genocide.
> >
> > Patrick Michael Tilton
> > EARTH-TIME 7-10-2002
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Melkor [melkor@...]
> Sent: Thursday, 11 July 2002 6:54
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] What's your favorite?
>
>
> > > Favorite Villain? Dr. Zaius/Second Runner-up Breck
> >>
> >
> >Funny, I never think of Dr. Zaius (I assume you're talking
> Maurice Evans) as
> >a villain. I feel rather sorry for him. I don't think there is
> a villain in
> >PLANET. Everybody is trying to do what they think is right.
> >
> >-- Rory
>
> Hitler was just trying to do what he thought was right. Bin
> Laden was just
> trying to do what he thought was right. Even the "Lucifer"
> character in the
> bible was just trying to do what he thought was right. Evil almost never
> recognizes itself, and the best movie villians are not simple.
>
>
>

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 7/9/02 10:45:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> JamesA1102@a... writes:
>
>
> > > Favorite Villain? Dr. Zaius/Second Runner-up Breck
> >
>
> Funny, I never think of Dr. Zaius (I assume you're talking Maurice
Evans) as
> a villain. I feel rather sorry for him. I don't think there is a
villain in
> PLANET. Everybody is trying to do what they think is right.
>
> -- Rory

--- In pota@y..., "Anthony B. McElveen" <abmac@i...> wrote:
> A simple search on Google turns up George Hasslein, Dean, School
of
> Architecture, California Polytechnic State University. There is
also a
> student at University of Georgia's Terry College of Business named
> Christian Hasslein. I didn't look any further because I didn't
need to.
> Maybe you should check the real world before you make your next
> pronouncement.
>
> Anthony B. McElveen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 5:54 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Villains


> I guess he is a villain to me because he so well defines the government
> (farcical trials, keeping secrets "for the good of all" etc).
>
> And I hate politicians (and I usually don't generalise...).
>
> Michael
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Haristas@... [Haristas@...]
> Sent: Thursday, 11 July 2002 0:48
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] What's your favorite?
>
>
> In a message dated 7/9/02 10:45:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> JamesA1102@... writes:
>
>
>
> > Favorite Villain? Dr. Zaius/Second Runner-up Breck
>
>
>
> Funny, I never think of Dr. Zaius (I assume you're talking Maurice
> Evans) as a villain. I feel rather sorry for him. I don't think there is
a
> villain in PLANET. Everybody is trying to do what they think is right.
>
> -- Rory
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>

--- In pota@y..., "Alan Maxwell" <alan@a...> wrote:
> Spot on - in fact, the final scene of Planet demonstrates that
Zaius
> might arguably have been right all along.

--- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> Well, I started reading this post and it started to drift so I did
what I
> normally do....yawned and deleted it.
>
> As I said, the only way to make this menace disappear is to delete
his posts
> and ignore him.
>
> That's what I intend to do - would anyone else in the group care
to join me?
>
> Michael

>Rory <Haristas@...> wrote:
>> Funny, I never think of Dr. Zaius (I assume you're talking Maurice
>Evans) as
>> a villain. I feel rather sorry for him. I don't think there is a
>villain in
>> PLANET. Everybody is trying to do what they think is right.
>
>Spot on - in fact, the final scene of Planet demonstrates that Zaius
>might arguably have been right all along.
>

>This is something I love about all the films in the series - there are
>very few people who are clearcut "heroes" or "villains". Misguided

> Who's posts are you refering to Michael?;-)
>
> --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > Well, I started reading this post and it started to drift so I

> what I
> > normally do....yawned and deleted it.
> >
> > As I said, the only way to make this menace disappear is to

> his posts
> > and ignore him.
> >
> > That's what I intend to do - would anyone else in the group care
> to join me?
> >
> > Michael
>
>
>
> ------------------------ ---------------------

> Free $5 Love Reading
> Risk Free!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/TPvn8A/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/9_IolB/TM
> --------------------------------------------------------------------

>
>
>
>

>
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Melkor" <melkor@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 1:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] What's your favorite?


> > > Favorite Villain? Dr. Zaius/Second Runner-up Breck
> >>
> >
> >Funny, I never think of Dr. Zaius (I assume you're talking Maurice Evans)
as
> >a villain. I feel rather sorry for him. I don't think there is a
villain in
> >PLANET. Everybody is trying to do what they think is right.
> >
> >-- Rory
>
> Hitler was just trying to do what he thought was right. Bin Laden was
just
> trying to do what he thought was right. Even the "Lucifer" character in
the
> bible was just trying to do what he thought was right. Evil almost never
> recognizes itself, and the best movie villians are not simple.
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Melkor" <melkor@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 1:56 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Skull of Oldest Human Ancestor Found


>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50035-2002Jul10.html"
>
> Anthropologists working in the bleak desert of Northern Chad have
unearthed the
> 7 million- year-old skull of the oldest human ancestor yet found, offering
the
> first opportunity to study a human fossil from the remote slice of time
when
> humans and apes diverged from a common ancestor.
>

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> No where does it say that in the Bible. I suggest you reexamine
your
> "facts". Etc. - - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Melkor" <melkor@m...>
> To: <pota@y...>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 1:56 PM
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Skull of Oldest Human Ancestor Found
>
>
> >
> > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50035-
2002Jul10.htmlbr> > >
> > Anthropologists working in the bleak desert of Northern Chad have
> unearthed the
> > 7 million- year-old skull of the oldest human ancestor yet
found, offering
> the
> > first opportunity to study a human fossil from the remote slice
of time
> when
> > humans and apes diverged from a common ancestor.
> >

----- Original Message -----
From: <mlccougar@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 7:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Buildings


> In a message dated 7/10/2002 3:23:48 AM Central Standard Time,
> LordTZer0@... writes:
>
>
> > Just don't expect me to buy into a notion I think is far-fetched.
> >
> > Patrick
> > ~ Purveyor of Fine Far-Fetched Notions Since 1989~
>
> You mean even you don't buy your theories?
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 6:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Skull of Oldest Human Ancestor Found


> What does the Bible have to do with this skull being found?
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> > No where does it say that in the Bible. I suggest you reexamine
> your
> > "facts". Etc. - - - Jeff
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Melkor" <melkor@m...>
> > To: <pota@y...>
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 1:56 PM
> > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Skull of Oldest Human Ancestor Found
> >
> >
> > >
> > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50035-
> 2002Jul10.htmlbr> > > >
> > > Anthropologists working in the bleak desert of Northern Chad have
> > unearthed the
> > > 7 million- year-old skull of the oldest human ancestor yet
> found, offering
> > the
> > > first opportunity to study a human fossil from the remote slice
> of time
> > when
> > > humans and apes diverged from a common ancestor.
> > >

----- Original Message -----
From: "Melkor" <melkor@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 3:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] What's your favorite?


> >Rory <Haristas@...> wrote:
> >> Funny, I never think of Dr. Zaius (I assume you're talking Maurice
> >Evans) as
> >> a villain. I feel rather sorry for him. I don't think there is a
> >villain in
> >> PLANET. Everybody is trying to do what they think is right.
> >
> >Spot on - in fact, the final scene of Planet demonstrates that Zaius
> >might arguably have been right all along.
> >
>
> Zaius and the PLANET Lawgiver were bigots, and the way Zaius treats Taylor
and
> Landon are the immoral actions of a bigot. We never saw Taylor "kill for
> sport, or lust, or greed". On the contrary the movie showed in the
opening
> scene that Taylor has pacifistic sentiments. We did see the apes kill for
sport
> though. Taylor was being judged on the basis of how other individuals of
his
> species (a stand in for race) acted.
>
> The movie is extremely clever here in showing how easily prejudces can be
> spread. People often say that Zaius was "right", but that is simply
Zaius'
> prejudices spreading to the movie's audience. Most humans in fact do not
"kill
> for sport, or lust, or greed". Throughtout the five movies each side is
> constantly prejudging the other, even though their were no real moral
> differences between the humans and the apes.
>
>
> >This is something I love about all the films in the series - there are
> >very few people who are clearcut "heroes" or "villains". Misguided
> perhaps, flawed definitely, but very few out and out villains.
>
> Let's not let Zaius off so easily. Like Hitler and Bin Laden, Zaius was
> KILLING PEOPLE because he was misguided. But that is more than misguided,
> that's evil. The other villians in the POTA film series were also trying
to
> kill people. Zaius was very convinced he was right, but so was Bin Laden
and
> Hitler. The fact that Zaius and characters in POTA behave like people
> in the real world is part of what makes the movies so great.
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----

From: mlccougar@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 4:34 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] The prop ship

In a message dated 7/10/2002 2:01:23 AM Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

Just like they made the full-scale mock-up of the spacecraft out of WOOD, and
made it LOOK like it was made out of metal.

It has been said in this group that the prop "sinking ship" was indeed made out of metal... Not plywood as the documantary states.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> If you have to ask that question then you will BURN IN HELL!
Now, let's
> put this nonsense away and get back to our Bibles, shall we? Etc. -
- - -
> Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@a...>
> To: <pota@y...>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 6:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Skull of Oldest Human Ancestor
Found
>
>
> > What does the Bible have to do with this skull being found?
> >
> >
> > --- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> > > No where does it say that in the Bible. I suggest you
reexamine
> > your
> > > "facts". Etc. - - - Jeff
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Melkor" <melkor@m...>
> > > To: <pota@y...>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 1:56 PM
> > > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Skull of Oldest Human Ancestor
Found
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50035-
> > 2002Jul10.htmlbr> > > > >
> > > > Anthropologists working in the bleak desert of Northern Chad
have
> > > unearthed the
> > > > 7 million- year-old skull of the oldest human ancestor yet
> > found, offering
> > > the
> > > > first opportunity to study a human fossil from the remote
slice
> > of time
> > > when
> > > > humans and apes diverged from a common ancestor.
> > > >

----- Original Message -----
From: <kidro85@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 7:09 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] (POTA) Anybody know what happened to Alex??


> Hey guys,
> Where did Alex disappear to? Is he still sending out those POTA Toon
Dvd's?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--- In pota@y..., "Jeff & Susan Stringer" <stringe@b...> wrote:
> Isn't it just amazing how EVERY topic introduced here decays
into a
> pissing contest.
> Gristle P.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <mlccougar@a...>
> To: <pota@y...>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 7:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Buildings
>
>
> > In a message dated 7/10/2002 3:23:48 AM Central Standard Time,
> > LordTZer0@A... writes:
> >
> >
> > > Just don't expect me to buy into a notion I think is far-
fetched.
> > >
> > > Patrick
> > > ~ Purveyor of Fine Far-Fetched Notions Since 1989~
> >
> > You mean even you don't buy your theories?
> >

> Isn't it just amazing how EVERY topic introduced here decays into

> pissing contest.
> Gristle P.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <mlccougar@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 7:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Buildings
>
>
> > In a message dated 7/10/2002 3:23:48 AM Central Standard Time,
> > LordTZer0@... writes:
> >
> >
> > > Just don't expect me to buy into a notion I think is far-

> > >
> > > Patrick
> > > ~ Purveyor of Fine Far-Fetched Notions Since 1989~
> >
> > You mean even you don't buy your theories?
> >
>
>
> ------------------------ ---------------------

> Free $5 Love Reading
> Risk Free!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/TPvn8A/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/9_IolB/TM
> --------------------------------------------------------------------

>
>
>
>

>
>
>

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 6:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Skull of Oldest Human Ancestor

>
>
> > What does the Bible have to do with this skull being found?
> >
> >
> > --- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> > > No where does it say that in the Bible. I suggest you

> > your
> > > "facts". Etc. - - - Jeff
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Melkor" <melkor@m...>
> > > To: <pota@y...>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 1:56 PM
> > > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Skull of Oldest Human Ancestor

> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50035-
> > 2002Jul10.htmlbr> > > > >
> > > > Anthropologists working in the bleak desert of Northern Chad

> > > unearthed the
> > > > 7 million- year-old skull of the oldest human ancestor yet
> > found, offering
> > > the
> > > > first opportunity to study a human fossil from the remote

> > of time
> > > when
> > > > humans and apes diverged from a common ancestor.
> > > >

----- Original Message -----

From: mlccougar@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 8:59 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] More about the prop ship

In a message dated 7/10/2002 9:21:39 PM Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

Bill Blake verifies that. He examined the ship on the backlot. I've seen his home movies. It was metal. He complains the "plywood" reference comes from the Marvel mag and just keeps getting repeated. - - - Jeff

I just read an article about this ship and it says "The full size prop was last seen rusting away in the back lot of the 20th Century Fox studios..."

So now, we have Blake's word on it, the article I mentioned, I believe the Icarus websight says it as well, soooooo, I'd say that the prop ship was indeed metal.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 2:37 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Ignorance is Bliss - Let's Vote!


> Well, I started reading this post and it started to drift so I did what I
> normally do....yawned and deleted it.
>
> As I said, the only way to make this menace disappear is to delete his
posts
> and ignore him.
>
> That's what I intend to do - would anyone else in the group care to join
me?
>
> Michael
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, 10 July 2002 18:24
> > To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Tactics, Shmactics
> >
> >
> > *** You mean, playing "devil's advocate"? The only problem with that
> > is that by trying to "out-debate" the opposing side when you KNOW that
> > your own side is false, requires ignoring at least SOME of the
> > evidence--the evidence which disproves your own side. If I were to
> > take up James' side on the Map Debate, I would have to do just what HE
> > has done: brush off Cornelius' remark about Taylor being "towards the
> > NORTH" (in BENEATH) as being nothing more than "a vague line".
> > Unfortunately, there's nothing "vague" about it, and if you have to
> > take it into account, it forces you to re-think what the Map is
> > telling us.
> > You imply, below, that I'm the one here trying to "mathematically
> > PROVE that the earth is flat". Did YOU take debating at school? As
> > I've mentioned before, that is the classic "Straw man" argument--you
> > pretend that I stand for something patently ridiculous, point out the
> > ridiculousness of that position (which I do NOT hold, but which you
> > try to get others to think I do), and then spuriously regard ANYTHING
> > I might believe which is contrary to your belief to be innately
> > ridiculous. I don't believe in the "Flat Earth" theory, and there's
> > absolutely no way to "prove" it mathematically--another fallacy of
> > your logic. You like to dismiss Math when it cannot serve your
> > purposes, but as any professional scientist will tell you... if you
> > can't put it into Numbers, it ain't Science. The reason we no longer
> > believe in the "Four Elements" of Earth, Air, Water, and Fire, and
> > believe instead in the Periodic Table of Elements is because the lab
> > workers who devised it had to do so in a way that made sense out of
> > the numbers in their experiments. The elements are what they are
> > because of strict mathematical rules--the number of protons, the
> > valence of each element, which element can chemically combine with
> > another, etc. The chain reaction which produces nuclear explosions was
> > worked out with strict mathematics--you can't just ignore the Numbers,
> > when you're concocting ANY theory; you have to be able to make SENSE
> > of the numbers in order for your theory to be USEFUL.
> > And that's the whole point of my own "modus operandi" regarding the
> > POTA saga; I'm writing a novel which has--as source material--5 movies
> > and 14 TV episodes which have SPECIFIC mathematical material in them,
> > material which is--at first glance--merely a bunch of "mistakes"
> > ("flubs"). My scenario is like a SCIENTIFIC theory which makes sense
> > out of the raw data, so that the numbers DO have relevance.
> > To give an example: recently, some have posted that they feel the
> > "Breeding Annex" chimpanzee female (from CONQUEST) with whom Caesar
> > mates IS Lisa (and not some OTHER female chimp), and that the child
> > born from that impregnation is Cornelius (the boy chimp in BATTLE).
> > And yet, in BATTLE Mandemus tells Caesar that he has been the Keeper
> > of the Armory "for TWENTY-SEVEN YEARS..." and previously MacDonald has
> > pointed out that Mandemus "may be old, but his MIND is as SHARP AS A
> > RAZOR." If Mandemus' mind is so "sharp", why would he say he's been
> > living in that Armory for 27 years, when Cornelius absolutely can NOT
> > be that old? Either Mandemus is deranged regarding the amount of time
> > he's been living in and guarding Caesar's stash of weapons (and WHY
> > would Caesar allow a deranged old ape to carry out that task?), or
> > Cornelius can NOT have been conceived by Lisa in the Breeding Annex
> > scene in CONQUEST. Logically, Mandemus must be telling the truth when
> > he states that "27 years" line, which dates BATTLE at circa 2018 A.D.
> > (1991 + 27), at the earliest. Logically, too, Cornelius--a mere boy in
> > BATTLE--cannot have been conceived during the events of CONQUEST,
> > since he's not 27 years old--so that the female chimp in the Breeding
> > Annex, even IF she too were portrayed by Natalie Trundy, cannot also
> > be Lisa--at least, Cornelius cannot have been conceived then. Maybe a
> > FIRSTBORN, other child could have been born to Lisa (if, that is, this
> > is Lisa) then... but not Cornelius.
> > Then again, there are those who just want to ignore the "27 years"
> > line, and concoct a Timeline which doesn't have to deal with that
> > "ugly fact" which ruins an otherwise "beautiful theory". Being so
> > selective with the "evidence" is NOT how anybody gets to "the Truth".
> > Not in my book.
> >
> > Patrick Michael Tilton
> > EARTH-TIME 7-10-2002
> >
> > --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > > Shock me. I always thought you were so flexible Patrick.
> > >
> > > Did anyone here take debating at school? You know, where they
> > give you a topic like "The Earth is Flat" and you go about
> > presenting an argument? And the winner can be going on about a
> > crock, but they win because they made it more convincing.
> > >
> > > Well, with Patrick it is all a debate. If you think other than
> > what he says, he will go about trying to "win" the debate, and
> > boy is he motivated! He with mathematically PROVE that the earth
> > is flat, and instead of then realising how silly that was (ie,
> > mathematics is a poor choice of tool because it just proved
> > something CONTRARY to fact), he will invite you to use
> > mathematics to prove your ideas and claim you might LACK logic if
> > you can't.
> > >
> > > And he loves to argue. C'mon, you know it.
> > >
> > > I would suggest this:
> > >
> > > When he says something reasonable, PRAISE HIM!!! Let him know
> > how wonderful that feels.
> > >
> > > When he says silly things, IGNORE HIM!!!!
> > >
> > > Positive reinforcement.
> > >
> > > Might work.....
> > >
> > > Michael
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@y...]
> > > > Sent: Monday, 8 July 2002 1:42
> > > > To: pota@y...
> > > > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: re:Timeline issues
> > > >
> > > And what "point" should I "concede": that your view somehow is
> > right? Not a
> > > chance!
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----

From: veetus@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 2:20 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] More about the prop ship

  It's odd that Roddy would say it's plywood, even if he was reading a script. He had as much contact with it as anyone, in "Escape" and the TV show. I'm afraid we have no choice. We must destroy our copies of "Behind the POTA". It's all a pack of lies. - - - Jeff

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: mlccougar@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 8:59 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] More about the prop ship

In a message dated 7/10/2002 9:21:39 PM Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

Bill Blake verifies that. He examined the ship on the backlot. I've seen his home movies. It was metal. He complains the "plywood" reference comes from the Marvel mag and just keeps getting repeated. - - - Jeff

I just read an article about this ship and it says "The full size prop was last seen rusting away in the back lot of the 20th Century Fox studios..."

So now, we have Blake's word on it, the article I mentioned, I believe the Icarus websight says it as well, soooooo, I'd say that the prop ship was indeed metal.

----- Original Message -----
From: <veetus@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 9:40 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] July 4rth Party at Chuck's


> Linda wrote a little something about her day at Chuck's on
> www.lindaharrison.com , including a couple of pics. It was actually a big
> catered party for a lot of people, not a little get together. But he chose
> to show POTA because he says it's his best picture. Go to the site and
click
> "News" if you want to know more. Etc. - - -
Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 2:37 PM
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Ignorance is Bliss - Let's Vote!
>
>
> > Well, I started reading this post and it started to drift so I did what
I
> > normally do....yawned and deleted it.
> >
> > As I said, the only way to make this menace disappear is to delete his
> posts
> > and ignore him.
> >
> > That's what I intend to do - would anyone else in the group care to join
> me?
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@...]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, 10 July 2002 18:24
> > > To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Tactics, Shmactics
> > >
> > >
> > > *** You mean, playing "devil's advocate"? The only problem with that
> > > is that by trying to "out-debate" the opposing side when you KNOW that
> > > your own side is false, requires ignoring at least SOME of the
> > > evidence--the evidence which disproves your own side. If I were to
> > > take up James' side on the Map Debate, I would have to do just what HE
> > > has done: brush off Cornelius' remark about Taylor being "towards the
> > > NORTH" (in BENEATH) as being nothing more than "a vague line".
> > > Unfortunately, there's nothing "vague" about it, and if you have to
> > > take it into account, it forces you to re-think what the Map is
> > > telling us.
> > > You imply, below, that I'm the one here trying to "mathematically
> > > PROVE that the earth is flat". Did YOU take debating at school? As
> > > I've mentioned before, that is the classic "Straw man" argument--you
> > > pretend that I stand for something patently ridiculous, point out the
> > > ridiculousness of that position (which I do NOT hold, but which you
> > > try to get others to think I do), and then spuriously regard ANYTHING
> > > I might believe which is contrary to your belief to be innately
> > > ridiculous. I don't believe in the "Flat Earth" theory, and there's
> > > absolutely no way to "prove" it mathematically--another fallacy of
> > > your logic. You like to dismiss Math when it cannot serve your
> > > purposes, but as any professional scientist will tell you... if you
> > > can't put it into Numbers, it ain't Science. The reason we no longer
> > > believe in the "Four Elements" of Earth, Air, Water, and Fire, and
> > > believe instead in the Periodic Table of Elements is because the lab
> > > workers who devised it had to do so in a way that made sense out of
> > > the numbers in their experiments. The elements are what they are
> > > because of strict mathematical rules--the number of protons, the
> > > valence of each element, which element can chemically combine with
> > > another, etc. The chain reaction which produces nuclear explosions was
> > > worked out with strict mathematics--you can't just ignore the Numbers,
> > > when you're concocting ANY theory; you have to be able to make SENSE
> > > of the numbers in order for your theory to be USEFUL.
> > > And that's the whole point of my own "modus operandi" regarding the
> > > POTA saga; I'm writing a novel which has--as source material--5 movies
> > > and 14 TV episodes which have SPECIFIC mathematical material in them,
> > > material which is--at first glance--merely a bunch of "mistakes"
> > > ("flubs"). My scenario is like a SCIENTIFIC theory which makes sense
> > > out of the raw data, so that the numbers DO have relevance.
> > > To give an example: recently, some have posted that they feel the
> > > "Breeding Annex" chimpanzee female (from CONQUEST) with whom Caesar
> > > mates IS Lisa (and not some OTHER female chimp), and that the child
> > > born from that impregnation is Cornelius (the boy chimp in BATTLE).
> > > And yet, in BATTLE Mandemus tells Caesar that he has been the Keeper
> > > of the Armory "for TWENTY-SEVEN YEARS..." and previously MacDonald has
> > > pointed out that Mandemus "may be old, but his MIND is as SHARP AS A
> > > RAZOR." If Mandemus' mind is so "sharp", why would he say he's been
> > > living in that Armory for 27 years, when Cornelius absolutely can NOT
> > > be that old? Either Mandemus is deranged regarding the amount of time
> > > he's been living in and guarding Caesar's stash of weapons (and WHY
> > > would Caesar allow a deranged old ape to carry out that task?), or
> > > Cornelius can NOT have been conceived by Lisa in the Breeding Annex
> > > scene in CONQUEST. Logically, Mandemus must be telling the truth when
> > > he states that "27 years" line, which dates BATTLE at circa 2018 A.D.
> > > (1991 + 27), at the earliest. Logically, too, Cornelius--a mere boy in
> > > BATTLE--cannot have been conceived during the events of CONQUEST,
> > > since he's not 27 years old--so that the female chimp in the Breeding
> > > Annex, even IF she too were portrayed by Natalie Trundy, cannot also
> > > be Lisa--at least, Cornelius cannot have been conceived then. Maybe a
> > > FIRSTBORN, other child could have been born to Lisa (if, that is, this
> > > is Lisa) then... but not Cornelius.
> > > Then again, there are those who just want to ignore the "27 years"
> > > line, and concoct a Timeline which doesn't have to deal with that
> > > "ugly fact" which ruins an otherwise "beautiful theory". Being so
> > > selective with the "evidence" is NOT how anybody gets to "the Truth".
> > > Not in my book.
> > >
> > > Patrick Michael Tilton
> > > EARTH-TIME 7-10-2002
> > >
> > > --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > > > Shock me. I always thought you were so flexible Patrick.
> > > >
> > > > Did anyone here take debating at school? You know, where they
> > > give you a topic like "The Earth is Flat" and you go about
> > > presenting an argument? And the winner can be going on about a
> > > crock, but they win because they made it more convincing.
> > > >
> > > > Well, with Patrick it is all a debate. If you think other than
> > > what he says, he will go about trying to "win" the debate, and
> > > boy is he motivated! He with mathematically PROVE that the earth
> > > is flat, and instead of then realising how silly that was (ie,
> > > mathematics is a poor choice of tool because it just proved
> > > something CONTRARY to fact), he will invite you to use
> > > mathematics to prove your ideas and claim you might LACK logic if
> > > you can't.
> > > >
> > > > And he loves to argue. C'mon, you know it.
> > > >
> > > > I would suggest this:
> > > >
> > > > When he says something reasonable, PRAISE HIM!!! Let him know
> > > how wonderful that feels.
> > > >
> > > > When he says silly things, IGNORE HIM!!!!
> > > >
> > > > Positive reinforcement.
> > > >
> > > > Might work.....
> > > >
> > > > Michael
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@y...]
> > > > > Sent: Monday, 8 July 2002 1:42
> > > > > To: pota@y...
> > > > > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: re:Timeline issues
> > > > >
> > > > And what "point" should I "concede": that your view somehow is
> > > right? Not a
> > > > chance!
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Ken and Heather Taylor

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 9:45 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] More about the prop ship

Maybe the 'Escape' and TV series ship was plywood and the 'Planet' one was metal. It's my belief ( for whatever THAT's worth) that there were two ships. The metal one submerged in Lake Powell ( which feasibly Roddy never saw up close as he didn't have any scenes with it) and the 'complete' ship w/ side hatch seen in the pilot episode of the series and in Escape. If you compare the two ( this is your cue Mr DVD frame grabber), I don't think the escape one is as big and wouldn't have the room for the nose escape hatch. But that's just me, what do I know? Hey, who's that hiding on that grassy knoll?

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: veetus@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 2:20 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] More about the prop ship

  It's odd that Roddy would say it's plywood, even if he was reading a script. He had as much contact with it as anyone, in "Escape" and the TV show. I'm afraid we have no choice. We must destroy our copies of "Behind the POTA". It's all a pack of lies. - - - Jeff

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: mlccougar@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 8:59 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] More about the prop ship

In a message dated 7/10/2002 9:21:39 PM Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

Bill Blake verifies that. He examined the ship on the backlot. I've seen his home movies. It was metal. He complains the "plywood" reference comes from the Marvel mag and just keeps getting repeated. - - - Jeff

I just read an article about this ship and it says "The full size prop was last seen rusting away in the back lot of the 20th Century Fox studios..."

So now, we have Blake's word on it, the article I mentioned, I believe the Icarus websight says it as well, soooooo, I'd say that the prop ship was indeed metal.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

----- Original Message -----
From: <veetus@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 2:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] July 4rth Party at Chuck's


> Heavens! Tonight is the premiere of "Road to Perdition", the first movie
> produced by Linda Harrison's son Dean. Her website has the invitation, and
> an article about Dean. She is going to the premiere with Glenn Shaddix
(Sen.
> Nado), apparently a good friend of hers. They are also doing a convention
in
> L.A. together this weekend. Here's to hoping the next generation of
Zanucks
> produce more "Jaws" than "Neighbors". A toast! Etc. - - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <veetus@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 9:40 PM
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] July 4rth Party at Chuck's
>
>
> > Linda wrote a little something about her day at Chuck's on
> > www.lindaharrison.com , including a couple of pics. It was actually a
big
> > catered party for a lot of people, not a little get together. But he
chose
> > to show POTA because he says it's his best picture. Go to the site and
> click
> > "News" if you want to know more. Etc. - - -
> Jeff
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...>
> > To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 2:37 PM
> > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Ignorance is Bliss - Let's Vote!
> >
> >
> > > Well, I started reading this post and it started to drift so I did
what
> I
> > > normally do....yawned and deleted it.
> > >
> > > As I said, the only way to make this menace disappear is to delete his
> > posts
> > > and ignore him.
> > >
> > > That's what I intend to do - would anyone else in the group care to
join
> > me?
> > >
> > > Michael
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@...]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, 10 July 2002 18:24
> > > > To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Tactics, Shmactics
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > *** You mean, playing "devil's advocate"? The only problem with that
> > > > is that by trying to "out-debate" the opposing side when you KNOW
that
> > > > your own side is false, requires ignoring at least SOME of the
> > > > evidence--the evidence which disproves your own side. If I were to
> > > > take up James' side on the Map Debate, I would have to do just what
HE
> > > > has done: brush off Cornelius' remark about Taylor being "towards
the
> > > > NORTH" (in BENEATH) as being nothing more than "a vague line".
> > > > Unfortunately, there's nothing "vague" about it, and if you have to
> > > > take it into account, it forces you to re-think what the Map is
> > > > telling us.
> > > > You imply, below, that I'm the one here trying to "mathematically
> > > > PROVE that the earth is flat". Did YOU take debating at school? As
> > > > I've mentioned before, that is the classic "Straw man" argument--you
> > > > pretend that I stand for something patently ridiculous, point out
the
> > > > ridiculousness of that position (which I do NOT hold, but which you
> > > > try to get others to think I do), and then spuriously regard
ANYTHING
> > > > I might believe which is contrary to your belief to be innately
> > > > ridiculous. I don't believe in the "Flat Earth" theory, and there's
> > > > absolutely no way to "prove" it mathematically--another fallacy of
> > > > your logic. You like to dismiss Math when it cannot serve your
> > > > purposes, but as any professional scientist will tell you... if you
> > > > can't put it into Numbers, it ain't Science. The reason we no longer
> > > > believe in the "Four Elements" of Earth, Air, Water, and Fire, and
> > > > believe instead in the Periodic Table of Elements is because the lab
> > > > workers who devised it had to do so in a way that made sense out of
> > > > the numbers in their experiments. The elements are what they are
> > > > because of strict mathematical rules--the number of protons, the
> > > > valence of each element, which element can chemically combine with
> > > > another, etc. The chain reaction which produces nuclear explosions
was
> > > > worked out with strict mathematics--you can't just ignore the
Numbers,
> > > > when you're concocting ANY theory; you have to be able to make SENSE
> > > > of the numbers in order for your theory to be USEFUL.
> > > > And that's the whole point of my own "modus operandi" regarding the
> > > > POTA saga; I'm writing a novel which has--as source material--5
movies
> > > > and 14 TV episodes which have SPECIFIC mathematical material in
them,
> > > > material which is--at first glance--merely a bunch of "mistakes"
> > > > ("flubs"). My scenario is like a SCIENTIFIC theory which makes sense
> > > > out of the raw data, so that the numbers DO have relevance.
> > > > To give an example: recently, some have posted that they feel the
> > > > "Breeding Annex" chimpanzee female (from CONQUEST) with whom Caesar
> > > > mates IS Lisa (and not some OTHER female chimp), and that the child
> > > > born from that impregnation is Cornelius (the boy chimp in BATTLE).
> > > > And yet, in BATTLE Mandemus tells Caesar that he has been the Keeper
> > > > of the Armory "for TWENTY-SEVEN YEARS..." and previously MacDonald
has
> > > > pointed out that Mandemus "may be old, but his MIND is as SHARP AS A
> > > > RAZOR." If Mandemus' mind is so "sharp", why would he say he's been
> > > > living in that Armory for 27 years, when Cornelius absolutely can
NOT
> > > > be that old? Either Mandemus is deranged regarding the amount of
time
> > > > he's been living in and guarding Caesar's stash of weapons (and WHY
> > > > would Caesar allow a deranged old ape to carry out that task?), or
> > > > Cornelius can NOT have been conceived by Lisa in the Breeding Annex
> > > > scene in CONQUEST. Logically, Mandemus must be telling the truth
when
> > > > he states that "27 years" line, which dates BATTLE at circa 2018
A.D.
> > > > (1991 + 27), at the earliest. Logically, too, Cornelius--a mere boy
in
> > > > BATTLE--cannot have been conceived during the events of CONQUEST,
> > > > since he's not 27 years old--so that the female chimp in the
Breeding
> > > > Annex, even IF she too were portrayed by Natalie Trundy, cannot also
> > > > be Lisa--at least, Cornelius cannot have been conceived then. Maybe
a
> > > > FIRSTBORN, other child could have been born to Lisa (if, that is,
this
> > > > is Lisa) then... but not Cornelius.
> > > > Then again, there are those who just want to ignore the "27 years"
> > > > line, and concoct a Timeline which doesn't have to deal with that
> > > > "ugly fact" which ruins an otherwise "beautiful theory". Being so
> > > > selective with the "evidence" is NOT how anybody gets to "the
Truth".
> > > > Not in my book.
> > > >
> > > > Patrick Michael Tilton
> > > > EARTH-TIME 7-10-2002
> > > >
> > > > --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > > > > Shock me. I always thought you were so flexible Patrick.
> > > > >
> > > > > Did anyone here take debating at school? You know, where they
> > > > give you a topic like "The Earth is Flat" and you go about
> > > > presenting an argument? And the winner can be going on about a
> > > > crock, but they win because they made it more convincing.
> > > > >
> > > > > Well, with Patrick it is all a debate. If you think other than
> > > > what he says, he will go about trying to "win" the debate, and
> > > > boy is he motivated! He with mathematically PROVE that the earth
> > > > is flat, and instead of then realising how silly that was (ie,
> > > > mathematics is a poor choice of tool because it just proved
> > > > something CONTRARY to fact), he will invite you to use
> > > > mathematics to prove your ideas and claim you might LACK logic if
> > > > you can't.
> > > > >
> > > > > And he loves to argue. C'mon, you know it.
> > > > >
> > > > > I would suggest this:
> > > > >
> > > > > When he says something reasonable, PRAISE HIM!!! Let him know
> > > > how wonderful that feels.
> > > > >
> > > > > When he says silly things, IGNORE HIM!!!!
> > > > >
> > > > > Positive reinforcement.
> > > > >
> > > > > Might work.....
> > > > >
> > > > > Michael
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@y...]
> > > > > > Sent: Monday, 8 July 2002 1:42
> > > > > > To: pota@y...
> > > > > > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: re:Timeline issues
> > > > > >
> > > > > And what "point" should I "concede": that your view somehow is
> > > > right? Not a
> > > > > chance!
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> I think the point isn't whether they recognize themselves as evil, but
> whether we do. Zauis and Hasslein, I sympathize with. Hitler and Bin Laden,
> I don't. Etc. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken and Heather Taylor" <ktaylor@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 9:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] July 4rth Party at Chuck's


> As long as you don't mean 'more Jaws' like in 'The Revenge of Jaws: The
> Revenge.'
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <veetus@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 2:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] July 4rth Party at Chuck's
>
>
> > Heavens! Tonight is the premiere of "Road to Perdition", the first
movie
> > produced by Linda Harrison's son Dean. Her website has the invitation,
and
> > an article about Dean. She is going to the premiere with Glenn Shaddix
> (Sen.
> > Nado), apparently a good friend of hers. They are also doing a
convention
> in
> > L.A. together this weekend. Here's to hoping the next generation of
> Zanucks
> > produce more "Jaws" than "Neighbors". A toast! Etc. - - - Jeff
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <veetus@...>
> > To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 9:40 PM
> > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] July 4rth Party at Chuck's
> >
> >
> > > Linda wrote a little something about her day at Chuck's on
> > > www.lindaharrison.com , including a couple of pics. It was actually a
> big
> > > catered party for a lot of people, not a little get together. But he
> chose
> > > to show POTA because he says it's his best picture. Go to the site and
> > click
> > > "News" if you want to know more. Etc. - - -
> > Jeff
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...>
> > > To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 2:37 PM
> > > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Ignorance is Bliss - Let's Vote!
> > >
> > >
> > > > Well, I started reading this post and it started to drift so I did
> what
> > I
> > > > normally do....yawned and deleted it.
> > > >
> > > > As I said, the only way to make this menace disappear is to delete
his
> > > posts
> > > > and ignore him.
> > > >
> > > > That's what I intend to do - would anyone else in the group care to
> join
> > > me?
> > > >
> > > > Michael
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@...]
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, 10 July 2002 18:24
> > > > > To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Tactics, Shmactics
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > *** You mean, playing "devil's advocate"? The only problem with
that
> > > > > is that by trying to "out-debate" the opposing side when you KNOW
> that
> > > > > your own side is false, requires ignoring at least SOME of the
> > > > > evidence--the evidence which disproves your own side. If I were to
> > > > > take up James' side on the Map Debate, I would have to do just
what
> HE
> > > > > has done: brush off Cornelius' remark about Taylor being "towards
> the
> > > > > NORTH" (in BENEATH) as being nothing more than "a vague line".
> > > > > Unfortunately, there's nothing "vague" about it, and if you have
to
> > > > > take it into account, it forces you to re-think what the Map is
> > > > > telling us.
> > > > > You imply, below, that I'm the one here trying to "mathematically
> > > > > PROVE that the earth is flat". Did YOU take debating at school? As
> > > > > I've mentioned before, that is the classic "Straw man"
argument--you
> > > > > pretend that I stand for something patently ridiculous, point out
> the
> > > > > ridiculousness of that position (which I do NOT hold, but which
you
> > > > > try to get others to think I do), and then spuriously regard
> ANYTHING
> > > > > I might believe which is contrary to your belief to be innately
> > > > > ridiculous. I don't believe in the "Flat Earth" theory, and
there's
> > > > > absolutely no way to "prove" it mathematically--another fallacy of
> > > > > your logic. You like to dismiss Math when it cannot serve your
> > > > > purposes, but as any professional scientist will tell you... if
you
> > > > > can't put it into Numbers, it ain't Science. The reason we no
longer
> > > > > believe in the "Four Elements" of Earth, Air, Water, and Fire, and
> > > > > believe instead in the Periodic Table of Elements is because the
lab
> > > > > workers who devised it had to do so in a way that made sense out
of
> > > > > the numbers in their experiments. The elements are what they are
> > > > > because of strict mathematical rules--the number of protons, the
> > > > > valence of each element, which element can chemically combine with
> > > > > another, etc. The chain reaction which produces nuclear explosions
> was
> > > > > worked out with strict mathematics--you can't just ignore the
> Numbers,
> > > > > when you're concocting ANY theory; you have to be able to make
SENSE
> > > > > of the numbers in order for your theory to be USEFUL.
> > > > > And that's the whole point of my own "modus operandi" regarding
the
> > > > > POTA saga; I'm writing a novel which has--as source material--5
> movies
> > > > > and 14 TV episodes which have SPECIFIC mathematical material in
> them,
> > > > > material which is--at first glance--merely a bunch of "mistakes"
> > > > > ("flubs"). My scenario is like a SCIENTIFIC theory which makes
sense
> > > > > out of the raw data, so that the numbers DO have relevance.
> > > > > To give an example: recently, some have posted that they feel the
> > > > > "Breeding Annex" chimpanzee female (from CONQUEST) with whom
Caesar
> > > > > mates IS Lisa (and not some OTHER female chimp), and that the
child
> > > > > born from that impregnation is Cornelius (the boy chimp in
BATTLE).
> > > > > And yet, in BATTLE Mandemus tells Caesar that he has been the
Keeper
> > > > > of the Armory "for TWENTY-SEVEN YEARS..." and previously MacDonald
> has
> > > > > pointed out that Mandemus "may be old, but his MIND is as SHARP AS
A
> > > > > RAZOR." If Mandemus' mind is so "sharp", why would he say he's
been
> > > > > living in that Armory for 27 years, when Cornelius absolutely can
> NOT
> > > > > be that old? Either Mandemus is deranged regarding the amount of
> time
> > > > > he's been living in and guarding Caesar's stash of weapons (and
WHY
> > > > > would Caesar allow a deranged old ape to carry out that task?), or
> > > > > Cornelius can NOT have been conceived by Lisa in the Breeding
Annex
> > > > > scene in CONQUEST. Logically, Mandemus must be telling the truth
> when
> > > > > he states that "27 years" line, which dates BATTLE at circa 2018
> A.D.
> > > > > (1991 + 27), at the earliest. Logically, too, Cornelius--a mere
boy
> in
> > > > > BATTLE--cannot have been conceived during the events of CONQUEST,
> > > > > since he's not 27 years old--so that the female chimp in the
> Breeding
> > > > > Annex, even IF she too were portrayed by Natalie Trundy, cannot
also
> > > > > be Lisa--at least, Cornelius cannot have been conceived then.
Maybe
> a
> > > > > FIRSTBORN, other child could have been born to Lisa (if, that is,
> this
> > > > > is Lisa) then... but not Cornelius.
> > > > > Then again, there are those who just want to ignore the "27 years"
> > > > > line, and concoct a Timeline which doesn't have to deal with that
> > > > > "ugly fact" which ruins an otherwise "beautiful theory". Being so
> > > > > selective with the "evidence" is NOT how anybody gets to "the
> Truth".
> > > > > Not in my book.
> > > > >
> > > > > Patrick Michael Tilton
> > > > > EARTH-TIME 7-10-2002
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > > > > > Shock me. I always thought you were so flexible Patrick.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Did anyone here take debating at school? You know, where they
> > > > > give you a topic like "The Earth is Flat" and you go about
> > > > > presenting an argument? And the winner can be going on about a
> > > > > crock, but they win because they made it more convincing.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Well, with Patrick it is all a debate. If you think other than
> > > > > what he says, he will go about trying to "win" the debate, and
> > > > > boy is he motivated! He with mathematically PROVE that the earth
> > > > > is flat, and instead of then realising how silly that was (ie,
> > > > > mathematics is a poor choice of tool because it just proved
> > > > > something CONTRARY to fact), he will invite you to use
> > > > > mathematics to prove your ideas and claim you might LACK logic if
> > > > > you can't.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And he loves to argue. C'mon, you know it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I would suggest this:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > When he says something reasonable, PRAISE HIM!!! Let him know
> > > > > how wonderful that feels.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > When he says silly things, IGNORE HIM!!!!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Positive reinforcement.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Might work.....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Michael
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@y...]
> > > > > > > Sent: Monday, 8 July 2002 1:42
> > > > > > > To: pota@y...
> > > > > > > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: re:Timeline issues
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > And what "point" should I "concede": that your view somehow is
> > > > > right? Not a
> > > > > > chance!
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Melkor" <melkor@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 9:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] What's your favorite?


> > I think the point isn't whether they recognize themselves as evil, but
> > whether we do. Zauis and Hasslein, I sympathize with. Hitler and Bin
Laden,
> > I don't. Etc. - - - Jeff
>
> I bet you wouldn't sympathize with Zaius if you were one of his victims
> like Landon. As Zaius' surgeons are getting their knives out to cut your
> brain open would you be thinking to yourself "Oh well at least the guy
means
> well..."? Even someone with an optimistic golden boy all American image
> doesn't deserve that.
>
> -Tom
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: <veetus@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 2:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] July 4rth Party at Chuck's


> Mr. Zanuck only did "Jaws" and "Jaws 2". He also did "Cocoon" and
"Cocoon
> 2". So I reckon if "Apes" continues, he won't be as prolific as Mr.
Jacobs.
> Etc. - - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ken and Heather Taylor" <ktaylor@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 9:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] July 4rth Party at Chuck's
>
>
> > As long as you don't mean 'more Jaws' like in 'The Revenge of Jaws: The
> > Revenge.'
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <veetus@...>
> > To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 2:49 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] July 4rth Party at Chuck's
> >
> >
> > > Heavens! Tonight is the premiere of "Road to Perdition", the first
> movie
> > > produced by Linda Harrison's son Dean. Her website has the invitation,
> and
> > > an article about Dean. She is going to the premiere with Glenn Shaddix
> > (Sen.
> > > Nado), apparently a good friend of hers. They are also doing a
> convention
> > in
> > > L.A. together this weekend. Here's to hoping the next generation of
> > Zanucks
> > > produce more "Jaws" than "Neighbors". A toast! Etc. - - - Jeff
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <veetus@...>
> > > To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 9:40 PM
> > > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] July 4rth Party at Chuck's
> > >
> > >
> > > > Linda wrote a little something about her day at Chuck's on
> > > > www.lindaharrison.com , including a couple of pics. It was actually
a
> > big
> > > > catered party for a lot of people, not a little get together. But he
> > chose
> > > > to show POTA because he says it's his best picture. Go to the site
and
> > > click
> > > > "News" if you want to know more.
Etc. - - -
> > > Jeff
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...>
> > > > To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 2:37 PM
> > > > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Ignorance is Bliss - Let's Vote!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Well, I started reading this post and it started to drift so I did
> > what
> > > I
> > > > > normally do....yawned and deleted it.
> > > > >
> > > > > As I said, the only way to make this menace disappear is to delete
> his
> > > > posts
> > > > > and ignore him.
> > > > >
> > > > > That's what I intend to do - would anyone else in the group care
to
> > join
> > > > me?
> > > > >
> > > > > Michael
> > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: patrickmichaeltilton
[patrickmichaeltilton@...]
> > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, 10 July 2002 18:24
> > > > > > To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Tactics, Shmactics
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *** You mean, playing "devil's advocate"? The only problem with
> that
> > > > > > is that by trying to "out-debate" the opposing side when you
KNOW
> > that
> > > > > > your own side is false, requires ignoring at least SOME of the
> > > > > > evidence--the evidence which disproves your own side. If I were
to
> > > > > > take up James' side on the Map Debate, I would have to do just
> what
> > HE
> > > > > > has done: brush off Cornelius' remark about Taylor being
"towards
> > the
> > > > > > NORTH" (in BENEATH) as being nothing more than "a vague line".
> > > > > > Unfortunately, there's nothing "vague" about it, and if you have
> to
> > > > > > take it into account, it forces you to re-think what the Map is
> > > > > > telling us.
> > > > > > You imply, below, that I'm the one here trying to
"mathematically
> > > > > > PROVE that the earth is flat". Did YOU take debating at school?
As
> > > > > > I've mentioned before, that is the classic "Straw man"
> argument--you
> > > > > > pretend that I stand for something patently ridiculous, point
out
> > the
> > > > > > ridiculousness of that position (which I do NOT hold, but which
> you
> > > > > > try to get others to think I do), and then spuriously regard
> > ANYTHING
> > > > > > I might believe which is contrary to your belief to be innately
> > > > > > ridiculous. I don't believe in the "Flat Earth" theory, and
> there's
> > > > > > absolutely no way to "prove" it mathematically--another fallacy
of
> > > > > > your logic. You like to dismiss Math when it cannot serve your
> > > > > > purposes, but as any professional scientist will tell you... if
> you
> > > > > > can't put it into Numbers, it ain't Science. The reason we no
> longer
> > > > > > believe in the "Four Elements" of Earth, Air, Water, and Fire,
and
> > > > > > believe instead in the Periodic Table of Elements is because the
> lab
> > > > > > workers who devised it had to do so in a way that made sense out
> of
> > > > > > the numbers in their experiments. The elements are what they are
> > > > > > because of strict mathematical rules--the number of protons, the
> > > > > > valence of each element, which element can chemically combine
with
> > > > > > another, etc. The chain reaction which produces nuclear
explosions
> > was
> > > > > > worked out with strict mathematics--you can't just ignore the
> > Numbers,
> > > > > > when you're concocting ANY theory; you have to be able to make
> SENSE
> > > > > > of the numbers in order for your theory to be USEFUL.
> > > > > > And that's the whole point of my own "modus operandi" regarding
> the
> > > > > > POTA saga; I'm writing a novel which has--as source material--5
> > movies
> > > > > > and 14 TV episodes which have SPECIFIC mathematical material in
> > them,
> > > > > > material which is--at first glance--merely a bunch of "mistakes"
> > > > > > ("flubs"). My scenario is like a SCIENTIFIC theory which makes
> sense
> > > > > > out of the raw data, so that the numbers DO have relevance.
> > > > > > To give an example: recently, some have posted that they feel
the
> > > > > > "Breeding Annex" chimpanzee female (from CONQUEST) with whom
> Caesar
> > > > > > mates IS Lisa (and not some OTHER female chimp), and that the
> child
> > > > > > born from that impregnation is Cornelius (the boy chimp in
> BATTLE).
> > > > > > And yet, in BATTLE Mandemus tells Caesar that he has been the
> Keeper
> > > > > > of the Armory "for TWENTY-SEVEN YEARS..." and previously
MacDonald
> > has
> > > > > > pointed out that Mandemus "may be old, but his MIND is as SHARP
AS
> A
> > > > > > RAZOR." If Mandemus' mind is so "sharp", why would he say he's
> been
> > > > > > living in that Armory for 27 years, when Cornelius absolutely
can
> > NOT
> > > > > > be that old? Either Mandemus is deranged regarding the amount of
> > time
> > > > > > he's been living in and guarding Caesar's stash of weapons (and
> WHY
> > > > > > would Caesar allow a deranged old ape to carry out that task?),
or
> > > > > > Cornelius can NOT have been conceived by Lisa in the Breeding
> Annex
> > > > > > scene in CONQUEST. Logically, Mandemus must be telling the truth
> > when
> > > > > > he states that "27 years" line, which dates BATTLE at circa 2018
> > A.D.
> > > > > > (1991 + 27), at the earliest. Logically, too, Cornelius--a mere
> boy
> > in
> > > > > > BATTLE--cannot have been conceived during the events of
CONQUEST,
> > > > > > since he's not 27 years old--so that the female chimp in the
> > Breeding
> > > > > > Annex, even IF she too were portrayed by Natalie Trundy, cannot
> also
> > > > > > be Lisa--at least, Cornelius cannot have been conceived then.
> Maybe
> > a
> > > > > > FIRSTBORN, other child could have been born to Lisa (if, that
is,
> > this
> > > > > > is Lisa) then... but not Cornelius.
> > > > > > Then again, there are those who just want to ignore the "27
years"
> > > > > > line, and concoct a Timeline which doesn't have to deal with
that
> > > > > > "ugly fact" which ruins an otherwise "beautiful theory". Being
so
> > > > > > selective with the "evidence" is NOT how anybody gets to "the
> > Truth".
> > > > > > Not in my book.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Patrick Michael Tilton
> > > > > > EARTH-TIME 7-10-2002
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > > > > > > Shock me. I always thought you were so flexible Patrick.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Did anyone here take debating at school? You know, where they
> > > > > > give you a topic like "The Earth is Flat" and you go about
> > > > > > presenting an argument? And the winner can be going on about a
> > > > > > crock, but they win because they made it more convincing.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Well, with Patrick it is all a debate. If you think other
than
> > > > > > what he says, he will go about trying to "win" the debate, and
> > > > > > boy is he motivated! He with mathematically PROVE that the earth
> > > > > > is flat, and instead of then realising how silly that was (ie,
> > > > > > mathematics is a poor choice of tool because it just proved
> > > > > > something CONTRARY to fact), he will invite you to use
> > > > > > mathematics to prove your ideas and claim you might LACK logic
if
> > > > > > you can't.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And he loves to argue. C'mon, you know it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I would suggest this:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > When he says something reasonable, PRAISE HIM!!! Let him know
> > > > > > how wonderful that feels.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > When he says silly things, IGNORE HIM!!!!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Positive reinforcement.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Might work.....
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Michael
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > From: patrickmichaeltilton
[patrickmichaeltilton@y...]
> > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, 8 July 2002 1:42
> > > > > > > > To: pota@y...
> > > > > > > > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: re:Timeline issues
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And what "point" should I "concede": that your view somehow is
> > > > > > right? Not a
> > > > > > > chance!
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