.html

 

<.html

OK since it's quiet again I have another question. If you could make
one change to any of the Apes films what would it be?

Hmm...that's tricky. I'd sure like to get rid of the 3 monkeys reference in
the original, but if I had to make one change, then Zira wouldn't have died
at the end of Escape. Pretty traumatizing for a ten year old in the early
seventies. Of course nowadays ten year olds are having sex with hookers in
video games and then busting a cap to get their money back. As Dylan once
sang, Oh the times they are a changin'!

According to James Burke, you know, the guy from the Connections show, The
universe has an average temperature of exactly 3 degrees Kelvin. Now, since
the temperature in anything will drop to absolute zero without further heat
input, then there had to be a Big Bang 15 billion years ago. Sorry to burst
your bubble Patrick. But I have to believe anything James Burke says. It's
just the way he says it.

.html

I don't know where this would go (most likely in Beneath) but I'd like to see
Zira and Cornelius's wedding.  Nifty!

Yeah, but I'll bet the cake wasn't chocolate.
Not the groom's cake anyway.

<.html

.html visibility<.html

I'd like to make a change for POTA2K1 2

POTA2001-2 without Zanuck
That spells magic to me.

If they could make him disappear that would be some trick!

>
>OK since it's quiet again I have another question. If you could make
>one change to any of the Apes films what would it be?

I would take most of Paul Dehn's changes out of the Battle script to
make it less confusing.

I would take out the flub in ESCAPE concerning Cornelius and the timeline.

I would like to see female orangutans and gorillas.

More gorillas in civilian suits like Julius wears.

More orangutans in CONQUEST.

I work in the advertising business, and lately I have been working with a voice over actor by the name of William Woodson on some radio commercials. Woodson is 85 years old and has made his living mainly doing voiceovers for cartoons and ads, as well as some stage work. I think he is best remembered as the narrator for the Super Friends cartoons back in the 70s ("Meanwhile, back at the Hall of Justice...")

Woodson also had a minor part in ESCAPE. He played a "Naval Officer" and had one line in the Presidential Inquiry scene with Cornelius and Zira ("Which Dr. Milo learned to navigate?"). I asked him about his experience working on the film and he said it was great fun for him. It was one of his few on-screen speaking appearances. His fondest memory of the film was working with Ricardo Montalbon, whom he described as a very warm, sincere and gentle man. He said that Montalbon always had something nice to say about someone and described actors in general as "wonderful people" which Woodson found amusing because most actors he knows are conceited pains in the butts.

Well it's not much of a story, but I thought I would throw that out there in case anyone was interested.

Matt

Actually, the late Ted Knight did that. A lot of villain voices as well.
Gristle P.

----- Original Message -----
From: <MTotsky@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 12:17 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Escape Anecdote


> I work in the advertising business, and lately I have been working with a
voice over actor by the name of William Woodson on some radio commercials.
Woodson is 85 years old and has made his living mainly doing voiceovers for
cartoons and ads, as well as some stage work. I think he is best remembered
as the narrator for the Super Friends cartoons back in the 70s ("Meanwhile,
back at the Hall of Justice...")
>
> Woodson also had a minor part in ESCAPE. He played a "Naval Officer" and
had one line in the Presidential Inquiry scene with Cornelius and Zira
("Which Dr. Milo learned to navigate?"). I asked him about his experience
working on the film and he said it was great fun for him. It was one of his
few on-screen speaking appearances. His fondest memory of the film was
working with Ricardo Montalbon, whom he described as a very warm, sincere
and gentle man. He said that Montalbon always had something nice to say
about someone and described actors in general as "wonderful people" which
Woodson found amusing because most actors he knows are conceited pains in
the butts.
>
> Well it's not much of a story, but I thought I would throw that out there
in case anyone was interested.
>
> Matt
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Dehn's changes were probably the only things that made the film
halfway decent to watch.

--- In pota@y..., "Melkor" <melkor@m...> wrote:
> >
> >OK since it's quiet again I have another question. If you could
make
> >one change to any of the Apes films what would it be?
>
> I would take most of Paul Dehn's changes out of the Battle script
to
> make it less confusing.

The following person has sent me a virus through the POTA chat group.

He probably did not do it intentionally, but do not open any
attachments from him.

Michael

--- LordTZer0@... wrote:

>
> I'd like to make a change for POTA2K1 2
>
> POTA2001-2 without Zanuck
> That spells magic to me.
>
> If they could make him disappear that would be some trick!
>
> ------------------------ ---------------------

~-->

> Will You Find True Love?
> Will You Meet the One?
> Free Love Reading by phone!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/ps3dMC/R_ZEAA/Ey.GAA/9_IolB/TM
> --------------------------------------------------------------------

-~->

>
>
>
>

>
>
>

.html
No I didn't.  I haven't sent any attachments!

Whatchu talkin' 'bout Whitty?

The following person has sent me a virus through the POTA chat group.

He probably did not do it intentionally, but do not open any
attachments from him.

Michael

--- LordTZer0@... wrote:
>
> I'd like to make a change for POTA2K1 2
>
> POTA2001-2 without Zanuck
> That spells magic to me.
>
> If they could make him disappear that would be some trick!

<.html

Sorry T.

I used your email to cut and paste and I forgot to paste.

The person was:

soylentphil <pjn1209@...>





--- LordTZer0@... wrote:

>
> No I didn't. I haven't sent any attachments!
>
> Whatchu talkin' 'bout Whitty?
>
>
> > The following person has sent me a virus through the POTA chat

group.

> >
> > He probably did not do it intentionally, but do not open any
> > attachments from him.
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > --- LordTZer0@... wrote:
> > >
> > > I'd like to make a change for POTA2K1 2
> > >
> > > POTA2001-2 without Zanuck
> > > That spells magic to me.
> > >
> > > If they could make him disappear that would be some trick!
> >
>
>

Now that's our Rory!

Michael

--- Haristas@... wrote:

> In a message dated 7/16/02 10:24:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> JamesA1102@... writes:
>
>
> > If you could make one change to any of the Apes films what would

it be?

> >
>
> In PLANET: The hatch on the ship when you first see it, and the

panel in

> place that's open on the side. I'd put a hole in Heston's neck

when you see

> him lying in the wagon, instead of only a lot of blood as it is.

Less

> over-the-head masks!!! And make sure no one playing an ape shows

their neck

> or the inside of their mouths! Also, Ape City bigger, BIGGER! The

President

> of the Assembly looking at the naked Taylor in the court room and

saying,

> "Bright Eyes, I sensed you were crazy, but now I can see you're

nuts!!!"

>
> In BENEATH: Less over-the-head masks!!! Drop Brent and just

replace Heston

> with another actor to play Taylor and develop the character

further. Get a

> better writer than Paul Dehn and a better director than Ted Post,

and Jerry

> Goldsmith for the score. Add $2 million to the budget. Think

about a better

> ending.
>
> In ESCAPE: Makeup on Roddy and Kim that looks exactly as they did

in the

> original. A better gorilla and chimp suits. And, an explanation

as to why

> nobody notices that the chimpanzees from the future don't look at

all like

> modern chimps. What's up with that?
>
> In CONQUEST: Less over-the-head masks!!! Another $2 or 3 million

to the

> budget. Ape shoes for the apes! Jerry Goldsmith for the score!

The

> original ending and a better explanation as to how it all came

about than a

> plague on dogs and cats! What's up with that?
>
> In BATTLE: Oh Jesus!!! Another story and script. Another few

million for

> the budget. Jerry Goldsmith for the score! No Paul Williams!!

Hair collars

> back on the gorillas. . . AND Less over-the-head masks!!!
>
> -- Rory
>

Thanks for the warning, Michael. I knew T was no good, but I was just
waiting for him to make his move. Kidding, Lord. But assholes never cease.
Soylentphil is bad people! Etc. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: <whitty@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 5:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Virus Alert


> Sorry T.
>
> I used your email to cut and paste and I forgot to paste.
>
> The person was:
>
> soylentphil <pjn1209@...>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- LordTZer0@... wrote:
> >
> > No I didn't. I haven't sent any attachments!
> >
> > Whatchu talkin' 'bout Whitty?
> >
> >
> > > The following person has sent me a virus through the POTA chat
> group.
> > >
> > > He probably did not do it intentionally, but do not open any
> > > attachments from him.
> > >
> > > Michael
> > >
> > > --- LordTZer0@... wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I'd like to make a change for POTA2K1 2
> > > >
> > > > POTA2001-2 without Zanuck
> > > > That spells magic to me.
> > > >
> > > > If they could make him disappear that would be some trick!
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

No worries Jeff.

Just by the way, don't condemn Soylentphil just yet.

Most of these viruses get into youer email system and send themselves
to everyone on your list, so it is possible that he simply RECEIVED a
virus and the little bugger spread himself around without soylent
knowing.

Michael

--- <veetus@...> wrote:

> Thanks for the warning, Michael. I knew T was no good, but I was

just

> waiting for him to make his move. Kidding, Lord. But assholes never

cease.

> Soylentphil is bad people! Etc. - - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <whitty@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 5:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Virus Alert
>
>
> > Sorry T.
> >
> > I used your email to cut and paste and I forgot to paste.
> >
> > The person was:
> >
> > soylentphil <pjn1209@...>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- LordTZer0@... wrote:
> > >
> > > No I didn't. I haven't sent any attachments!
> > >
> > > Whatchu talkin' 'bout Whitty?
> > >
> > >
> > > > The following person has sent me a virus through the POTA chat
> > group.
> > > >
> > > > He probably did not do it intentionally, but do not open any
> > > > attachments from him.
> > > >
> > > > Michael
> > > >
> > > > --- LordTZer0@... wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I'd like to make a change for POTA2K1 2
> > > > >
> > > > > POTA2001-2 without Zanuck
> > > > > That spells magic to me.
> > > > >
> > > > > If they could make him disappear that would be some trick!
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------ ---------------------

~-->

> Free $5 Love Reading
> Risk Free!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/TPvn8A/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/9_IolB/TM
> --------------------------------------------------------------------

-~->

>
>
>
>

>
>
>

In a message dated 7/17/02 5:45:22 PM, stringe@... writes:

<< Actually, the late Ted Knight did that. A lot of villain voices as well.

>>

Ted Knight did some episodes, but Woodson did others. Check the Internet
Movie Data Base.

Matt

I haven't been able to locate any info on the next POTA adult novel in
the the William T. Quick series. The other new books you will find on
Amazon are the 'junior novels' from Whitman and Bright, the first two
of which are out. They are prequels to POTA 2001, but not pre-Fall,
only 12 years prior. I enjoyed those also, but more in the way you
might enjoy an episode of POTA TV series -- not as much depth, but a
good short story with familiar characters.
Menluth.

--- In pota@y..., CheeseGOTAS@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 7/16/02 1:09:36 AM Central Daylight Time,
menluth@y...
> writes:
>
> << It's true that the apes do not figure much in The Fall, but the
> author/publisher is clearly trying to keep us waiting for more in
the
> book(s) to follow. Can't wait! >>
>
> Oh yeah, I was thinking that the Apes didn't have much to do in this
book
> because of the 'Look for more Ape books soon!' quote on the back of
the book.
> So does anyone know the title of the next book, or when it's coming
out?
>
> -Joe

The Marvel adaptation of the Corrington's BATTLE script makes a lot more sense
than the actual movie because Dehn's changes dumbed down and confused the
story. Kolp's actions makes more sense. Aldo's actions makes more sense.
The whole story makes more sense.

>Dehn's changes were probably the only things that made the film
>halfway decent to watch.
>
>
>--- In pota@y..., "Melkor" <melkor@m...> wrote:
>> >
>> >OK since it's quiet again I have another question. If you could
>make
>> >one change to any of the Apes films what would it be?
>>
>> I would take most of Paul Dehn's changes out of the Battle script
>to
>> make it less confusing.

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 8:22 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] (unknown)

In a message dated 7/16/02 10:24:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

If you could make one change to any of the Apes films what would it be?

In PLANET:  The hatch on the ship when you first see it, and the panel in place that's open on the side.  I'd put a hole in Heston's neck when you see him lying in the wagon, instead of only a lot of blood as it is.  Less over-the-head masks!!!  And make sure no one playing an ape shows their neck or the inside of their mouths!  Also, Ape City bigger, BIGGER!  The President of the Assembly looking at the naked Taylor in the court room and saying, "Bright Eyes, I sensed you were crazy, but now I can see you're nuts!!!"

In BENEATH:  Less over-the-head masks!!!  Drop Brent and just replace Heston with another actor to play Taylor and develop the character further.  Get a better writer than Paul Dehn and a better director than Ted Post, and Jerry Goldsmith for the score.  Add $2 million to the budget.  Think about a better ending.

In ESCAPE:  Makeup on Roddy and Kim that looks exactly as they did in the original.  A better gorilla and chimp suits.  And, an explanation as to why nobody notices that the chimpanzees from the future don't look at all like modern chimps.  What's up with that?

In CONQUEST:  Less over-the-head masks!!!  Another $2 or 3 million to the budget.  Ape shoes for the apes!  Jerry Goldsmith for the score!  The original ending and a better explanation as to how it all came about than a plague on dogs and cats!  What's up with that?

In BATTLE:  Oh Jesus!!!  Another story and script.  Another few million for the budget.  Jerry Goldsmith for the score!  No Paul Williams!!  Hair collars back on the gorillas. . . AND Less over-the-head masks!!!

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

No way! Zira dying is why those movies will still hold up when I'm 70. No
"franchise" would dare have an ending like that today. Only "Apes" has guts
to end like that. And not bring her back like Spock.
- - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: <LordTZer0@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 11:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] (unknown)


> OK since it's quiet again I have another question. If you could make
> one change to any of the Apes films what would it be?
>
> Hmm...that's tricky. I'd sure like to get rid of the 3 monkeys reference
in
> the original, but if I had to make one change, then Zira wouldn't have
died
> at the end of Escape. Pretty traumatizing for a ten year old in the early
> seventies. Of course nowadays ten year olds are having sex with hookers
in
> video games and then busting a cap to get their money back. As Dylan once
> sang, Oh the times they are a changin'!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Thanks, Matt. That's a fun thing. But when did he work with Montalban?
Etc. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: <MTotsky@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 9:17 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Escape Anecdote


> I work in the advertising business, and lately I have been working with a
voice over actor by the name of William Woodson on some radio commercials.
Woodson is 85 years old and has made his living mainly doing voiceovers for
cartoons and ads, as well as some stage work. I think he is best remembered
as the narrator for the Super Friends cartoons back in the 70s ("Meanwhile,
back at the Hall of Justice...")
>
> Woodson also had a minor part in ESCAPE. He played a "Naval Officer" and
had one line in the Presidential Inquiry scene with Cornelius and Zira
("Which Dr. Milo learned to navigate?"). I asked him about his experience
working on the film and he said it was great fun for him. It was one of his
few on-screen speaking appearances. His fondest memory of the film was
working with Ricardo Montalbon, whom he described as a very warm, sincere
and gentle man. He said that Montalbon always had something nice to say
about someone and described actors in general as "wonderful people" which
Woodson found amusing because most actors he knows are conceited pains in
the butts.
>
> Well it's not much of a story, but I thought I would throw that out there
in case anyone was interested.
>
> Matt
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Was there any substance to his e-mail? I haven't seen ol' "Soylentphil"
around here before. Maybe it's the ghost of Alex!!
Etc. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: <whitty@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 8:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Virus Alert


> No worries Jeff.
>
> Just by the way, don't condemn Soylentphil just yet.
>
> Most of these viruses get into youer email system and send themselves
> to everyone on your list, so it is possible that he simply RECEIVED a
> virus and the little bugger spread himself around without soylent
> knowing.
>
> Michael
>
> --- <veetus@...> wrote:
> > Thanks for the warning, Michael. I knew T was no good, but I was
> just
> > waiting for him to make his move. Kidding, Lord. But assholes never
> cease.
> > Soylentphil is bad people! Etc. - - - Jeff
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <whitty@...>
> > To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 5:42 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Virus Alert
> >
> >
> > > Sorry T.
> > >
> > > I used your email to cut and paste and I forgot to paste.
> > >
> > > The person was:
> > >
> > > soylentphil <pjn1209@...>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- LordTZer0@... wrote:
> > > >
> > > > No I didn't. I haven't sent any attachments!
> > > >
> > > > Whatchu talkin' 'bout Whitty?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > The following person has sent me a virus through the POTA chat
> > > group.
> > > > >
> > > > > He probably did not do it intentionally, but do not open any
> > > > > attachments from him.
> > > > >
> > > > > Michael
> > > > >
> > > > > --- LordTZer0@... wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'd like to make a change for POTA2K1 2
> > > > > >
> > > > > > POTA2001-2 without Zanuck
> > > > > > That spells magic to me.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If they could make him disappear that would be some trick!
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ ---------------------
> ~-->
> > Free $5 Love Reading
> > Risk Free!
> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/TPvn8A/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/9_IolB/TM
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> -~->
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I seem to remember him but he is a lurker I think.....

Michael

--- <veetus@...> wrote:

> Was there any substance to his e-mail? I haven't seen

ol' "Soylentphil"

> around here before. Maybe it's the ghost of Alex!!
> Etc. - - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <whitty@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 8:57 PM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Virus Alert
>
>
> > No worries Jeff.
> >
> > Just by the way, don't condemn Soylentphil just yet.
> >
> > Most of these viruses get into youer email system and send

themselves

> > to everyone on your list, so it is possible that he simply

RECEIVED a

> > virus and the little bugger spread himself around without soylent
> > knowing.
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > --- <veetus@...> wrote:
> > > Thanks for the warning, Michael. I knew T was no good, but I

was

> > just
> > > waiting for him to make his move. Kidding, Lord. But assholes

never

> > cease.
> > > Soylentphil is bad people! Etc. - - - Jeff
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <whitty@...>
> > > To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 5:42 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Virus Alert
> > >
> > >
> > > > Sorry T.
> > > >
> > > > I used your email to cut and paste and I forgot to paste.
> > > >
> > > > The person was:
> > > >
> > > > soylentphil <pjn1209@...>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- LordTZer0@... wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > No I didn't. I haven't sent any attachments!
> > > > >
> > > > > Whatchu talkin' 'bout Whitty?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > The following person has sent me a virus through the POTA

chat

> > > > group.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > He probably did not do it intentionally, but do not open

any

> > > > > > attachments from him.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Michael
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- LordTZer0@... wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'd like to make a change for POTA2K1 2
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > POTA2001-2 without Zanuck
> > > > > > > That spells magic to me.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If they could make him disappear that would be some

trick!

> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------ -----------------

----

> > ~-->
> > > Free $5 Love Reading
> > > Risk Free!
> > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/TPvn8A/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/9_IolB/TM
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------

----

> > -~->
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------ ---------------------

~-->

> Free $5 Love Reading
> Risk Free!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/TPvn8A/PfREAA/Ey.GAA/9_IolB/TM
> --------------------------------------------------------------------

-~->

>
>
>
>

>
>
>

Here's a picture I found while surfing the net. You may notice a
similarity...

http://www.boners.com/content/381213.1.jpg

THIS is how bad Ari's make-up was. (and no, it's not pictures of weiners)

-Joe

What make's you think the Marvel adaption was based on the
Corrington script without Dehn's changes?

--- In pota@y..., "Melkor" <melkor@m...> wrote:
> The Marvel adaptation of the Corrington's BATTLE script makes a
lot more sense
> than the actual movie because Dehn's changes dumbed down and
confused the
> story. Kolp's actions makes more sense. Aldo's actions makes
more sense.
> The whole story makes more sense.
>
>
> >Dehn's changes were probably the only things that made the film
> >halfway decent to watch.
> >
> >
> >--- In pota@y..., "Melkor" <melkor@m...> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >OK since it's quiet again I have another question. If you could
> >make
> >> >one change to any of the Apes films what would it be?
> >>
> >> I would take most of Paul Dehn's changes out of the Battle
script
> >to
> >> make it less confusing.
>
>
>

That would be a nightmare. Burton is a hack and he would just screw
up the originals.

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> Hey, Rory's back! It's a shame Tim Burton couldn't go back in a
time machine and direct those movies, but we can dream, can't we?
Etc. - - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Haristas@a...
> To: pota@y...
> Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 8:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] (unknown)
>
>
> In a message dated 7/16/02 10:24:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
JamesA1102@a... writes:
>
>
>
> If you could make one change to any of the Apes films what
would it be?
>
>
>
> In PLANET: The hatch on the ship when you first see it, and the
panel in place that's open on the side. I'd put a hole in Heston's
neck when you see him lying in the wagon, instead of only a lot of
blood as it is. Less over-the-head masks!!! And make sure no one
playing an ape shows their neck or the inside of their mouths!
Also, Ape City bigger, BIGGER! The President of the Assembly
looking at the naked Taylor in the court room and saying, "Bright
Eyes, I sensed you were crazy, but now I can see you're nuts!!!"
>
> In BENEATH: Less over-the-head masks!!! Drop Brent and just
replace Heston with another actor to play Taylor and develop the
character further. Get a better writer than Paul Dehn and a better
director than Ted Post, and Jerry Goldsmith for the score. Add $2
million to the budget. Think about a better ending.
>
> In ESCAPE: Makeup on Roddy and Kim that looks exactly as they
did in the original. A better gorilla and chimp suits. And, an
explanation as to why nobody notices that the chimpanzees from the
future don't look at all like modern chimps. What's up with that?
>
> In CONQUEST: Less over-the-head masks!!! Another $2 or 3
million to the budget. Ape shoes for the apes! Jerry Goldsmith for
the score! The original ending and a better explanation as to how
it all came about than a plague on dogs and cats! What's up with
that?
>
> In BATTLE: Oh Jesus!!! Another story and script. Another few
million for the budget. Jerry Goldsmith for the score! No Paul
Williams!! Hair collars back on the gorillas. . . AND Less over-the-
head masks!!!
>
> -- Rory
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.

Well, I just made the changes I wanted to POTA2001.
I only cut 5 - 10 minutes. You can only polish a turd
for so long before it starts to fall apart. But my suggestions
for those who'd like to do the same are: Limbo quips --
gone! Heston - outta there! Lose the flying monkeys!
And keep Roth and Duncan's screen time to a minimum.
Oh sure I lost the punch on the shot fired at Limo's
foot cutting the Rodney King reference, but to do
any better I'd have to go down to the editing suite and
stripe a tape with SMPTE time code, and to be honest
it's just not worth the effort.

Jeff wrote:

<<Thanks, Matt. That's a fun thing. But when did he work with Montalban?
Etc.>>

I guess just being on the set with him. I'm not exactly sure. I know they didn't have any scenes together, but I'm just going by what Woodson told me.

Matt

>What make's you think the Marvel adaption was based on the
>Corrington script without Dehn's changes?
>

Dehn was brought back only at the very end of the process. I don't know what
the date was on Marvel's copy of the BATTLE script but it was obviously earlier
than my copy. It has the Corrington's ending instead of Dehn's ending.
It has Breck instead of Kolp. It leaves in Cornelius reference to Aldo.
The dialog has changes in lots of places. The story is more coherent and
makes more sense. In the final script the dialog was improved but the
story was confused.

Scientists are disagreeing whether this seven million year old skull is
from a human or an ape. Maybe it is the common ancestor of both?


http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,53812,00.html"
A prehistoric skull touted as the oldest human remains ever found is probably
not the head of the earliest member of the human family but of an ancient female
gorilla, a French scientist said on Friday.

I don't

--- In pota@y..., "Melkor" <melkor@m...> wrote:
> Dehn was brought back only at the very end of the process.

Were you there at the time and know this for sure?


> I don't know what the date was on Marvel's copy of the BATTLE
> script but it was obviously earlier than my copy. It has the
> Corrington's ending instead of Dehn's ending.
> It has Breck instead of Kolp. It leaves in Cornelius reference to
Aldo.
> The dialog has changes in lots of places. The story is more
coherent and
> makes more sense.

I believe they used the shooting scripts which didn't take in to
account final, on set rewrites. But remember, they were adaptions of
the scripts not verbatum transcripts. (And from some of Taylor's
goofy one liners in the Planet adaption, you can tell the Marvel
writers took some liberties.)

> In the final script the dialog was improved but the
> story was confused.

I've always found Battle overly simplistic. And according to Joe
Russo's book, Thompson and Capra thought the Corrington's script was
weak and a mess which is why they brought back Dehn.
What about it do you find so confusing??

>
>--- In pota@y..., "Melkor" <melkor@m...> wrote:
>> Dehn was brought back only at the very end of the process.
>
>Were you there at the time and know this for sure?

Dehn took over the script from the Corringtons sometime around the middle
of November 1972.

>> I don't know what the date was on Marvel's copy of the BATTLE
>> script but it was obviously earlier than my copy. It has the
>> Corrington's ending instead of Dehn's ending.
>> It has Breck instead of Kolp. It leaves in Cornelius reference to
>Aldo.
>> The dialog has changes in lots of places. The story is more
>coherent and
>> makes more sense.
>
>I believe they used the shooting scripts which didn't take in to
>account final, on set rewrites.

The copy of the BATTLE script that Marvel used was definitely not the
final i.e. "shooting" script. I have a copy of the final BATTLE script dated
Dec. 20 1972 and it has all of Dehn's changes that are not in the Marvel
adaptation.

>But remember, they were adaptions of
>the scripts not verbatum transcripts. (And from some of Taylor's
>goofy one liners in the Planet adaption, you can tell the Marvel
>writers took some liberties.)

According to one of their editorial responses Marvel's dialog was "nearly
verbatum" from their POTA movie scripts. This was in response to a letter
asking why they used Breck instead of Kolp and why their BATTLE adaptation was
so different than the movie. Obviously Taylor's goofy reference to the Beatles
in the PLANET adaptation was why they couldn't claim to be "100% verbatum".

>> In the final script the dialog was improved but the
>> story was confused.
>
>I've always found Battle overly simplistic. And according to Joe
>Russo's book, Thompson and Capra thought the Corrington's script was
>weak and a mess which is why they brought back Dehn.
>What about it do you find so confusing??

In the Corrington's story Kolp (Brent) has a better reason for going to
war. Aldo has a better reason for launching his coup. Caesar has better
reasons for how he handles Aldo. The Lawgiver scene has a better reason for
existing. Dehn's sloppy story tweaks made not only the plot harder to
understand but the whole theme of the Corrington's story harder to understand
than it was supposed to be. All I see in Russo's book is Thompson and Cabra
complaining about the *final* script. i.e. the version of the script with
Dehn's sloppy story tweaks.

--- In pota@y..., "Melkor" <melkor@m...> wrote:

> The copy of the BATTLE script that Marvel used was definitely not

the

> final i.e. "shooting" script. I have a copy of the final BATTLE

script dated

> Dec. 20 1972 and it has all of Dehn's changes that are not in the

Marvel

> adaptation.

Does your copy match the final film or are there differences?

> According to one of their editorial responses Marvel's dialog

was "nearly

> verbatum" from their POTA movie scripts. This was in response to

a letter

> asking why they used Breck instead of Kolp and why their BATTLE

adaptation was

> so different than the movie. Obviously Taylor's goofy reference

to the Beatles

> in the PLANET adaptation was why they couldn't claim to be "100%

verbatum".

I guess that's why Vigil keeps shape shifting from a chimp to an
orangatan and back.

> In the Corrington's story Kolp (Brent) has a better reason for

going to

> war.

Well what was it?

> Aldo has a better reason for launching his coup.

And that was??

> Caesar has better reasons for how he handles Aldo.

Which is?????

> The Lawgiver scene has a better reason for existing.

And that is??

> Dehn's sloppy story tweaks made not only the plot harder to
> understand but the whole theme of the Corrington's story harder to

understand

> than it was supposed to be.

And what was the theme???


All I see in Russo's book is Thompson and Cabra

> complaining about the *final* script. i.e. the version of the

script with

> Dehn's sloppy story tweaks.

From page 217 J. Lee Thompson states, "We had to start shooting in
January and the script was not in good shape. I worked with the
Corringtons a little bit, but there was always something not quite
jelling with it. It was a patchwork job. We had a lame script, which
wasn't awfully good, but if I had Paul working on it, we could of
got it better."

.htmlWhatever the case is, I myself prefer the Marvel adaptation, the Gerrold novelization, and the book and record better than the movie itself.

A lot of people seem to think Battle is "bad." Well, myself, I think the story itself is a good enough one, it was just poorly executed. Sure there are things I am sure I would have done differently, but that's not my point right now. My point is: Had it been handled better, I think it would have been looked on as a better movie. By "better," I mean maybe darker, or not so all around "cheap" in appearance.(And I'm not blaming Thompson or APJAC... I lay the "blame" on FOX and their wanting a "kid's picture.")

<.html

We just don't know, do we, what went on back them. I think Oliver Stone
had a good idea setting POTA in the past. He just needed a good
script. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Melkor" <melkor@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 7:58 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Human or Ape?


> Scientists are disagreeing whether this seven million year old skull is
> from a human or an ape. Maybe it is the common ancestor of both?
>
>
> http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,53812,00.html"
> A prehistoric skull touted as the oldest human remains ever found is
probably
> not the head of the earliest member of the human family but of an ancient
female
> gorilla, a French scientist said on Friday.
>
>
>

> --- In pota@y..., "Melkor" <melkor@m...> wrote:
> > The copy of the BATTLE script that Marvel used was definitely not
> the
> > final i.e. "shooting" script. I have a copy of the final BATTLE
> script dated
> > Dec. 20 1972 and it has all of Dehn's changes that are not in the
> Marvel
> > adaptation.
>
> Does your copy match the final film or are there differences?

It has been awhile since I read it but I don't remember any differences
from the final movie.

> > In the Corrington's story Kolp (Brent) has a better reason for
> going to
> > war.
>
> Well what was it?

In the Marvel adaptation based on the earlier script Caesar, McDonald,
and Virgil are forced to shoot and kill some of Kolp's (Breck's) men
in order to escape from the city. In Kolp's mind, the war had already
started when his men were killed.

> > Aldo has a better reason for launching his coup.
>
> And that was??
>
> > Caesar has better reasons for how he handles Aldo.
>
> Which is?????

I will handle these together. But first I would like to point out that the
CONQUEST script (from the Marvel adaptation which is the only version I have)
was also better than the actual movie. Aldo is Caesar's chief lieutenant and
is a messenger gorilla. That explains why Caesar initially trusted Aldo with a
critical position in BATTLE. Aldo is the same ape who would have led the
revolt (a few months or years later probably) if Caesar hadn't been around. Of
course all but one of Aldo's scenes were cut in CONQUEST and he was changed
into a chimp. But the Corringtons were using the scripts of the earlier movies
for reference, not the movies themselves, and they meant for him to be the same
character as the CONQUEST and ESCAPE Aldo. When Aldo hears "No Aldo No!" in
BATTLE, we are supposed to be reminded of the times he hears "No Aldo No" in
CONQUEST. None of this directly related to the BATTLE script but it explains
why the Corrington's didn't give any background info on Aldo which Eric Greene
complains about. Note that Dehn himself created the Aldo character in ESCAPE,
CONQUEST, and BATTLE and Dehn also intended for him to be the same character in
each.

When Caesar, McDonald, and Virgil are in the archives section Caesar wonders
what exactly he needs to do to "change lanes" and prevent the Earth from being
destroyed. When Caesar hears Cornelius mention Aldo in the earlier script,
he suddenly realizes that Aldo was the ape leader in the original timeline,
and so, much earlier than in the final movie script, Caesar realizes he
needs to deal with Aldo. In the earlier script Caesar's council meeting
was an elected legislature composed of chimps, gorillas, and orangutans.
When the gorillas leave the council, Caesar uses that as an opportunity
to reduce Aldo's power and he permanently awards all of the legislative
seats held by Aldo's gorillas to the human observers instead. At that point
Aldo realizes his only power left is his military position, and starts
launching plans for a military coup.

>> The Lawgiver scene has a better reason for existing.
>
> And that is??
>
> > Dehn's sloppy story tweaks made not only the plot harder to
> > understand but the whole theme of the Corrington's story harder to
> understand
> > than it was supposed to be.
>
> And what was the theme???

That deserves its own post so I save that for later. Before you
joined the group I posted a 3 part essay on BATTLE which talked about
that and other things.

> >All I see in Russo's book is Thompson and Cabra
> > complaining about the *final* script. i.e. the version of the
> script with
> > Dehn's sloppy story tweaks.
>
> >From page 217 J. Lee Thompson states, "We had to start shooting in
> January and the script was not in good shape. I worked with the
> Corringtons a little bit, but there was always something not quite
> jelling with it. It was a patchwork job. We had a lame script, which
> wasn't awfully good, but if I had Paul working on it, we could of
> got it better."

This doesn't make a lot of sense because Dehn DID work on it for a month.
Maybe his memory of 30 years ago was faulty. Thompson was the same guy who
messed up Aldo in CONQUEST and I don't think he understood things as well
as the writers did or he wouldn't have done so. The Corringtons wrote a
very coherent story, not a patchwork job. The Marvel adaptation makes
better sense than the final movie. On the other hand the earlier script
probably would have been harder to do on the limited budget that Thompson
had.

--- In pota@y..., "Melkor" <melkor@m...> wrote:

> > --- In pota@y..., "Melkor" <melkor@m...> wrote:
> It has been awhile since I read it but I don't remember any

differences

> from the final movie.
>

Sounds like you have the final revised script with all the on set
changes, not the shooting script.

> In the Marvel adaptation based on the earlier script Caesar,

McDonald,

> and Virgil are forced to shoot and kill some of Kolp's (Breck's)

men

> in order to escape from the city. In Kolp's mind, the war had

already

> started when his men were killed.
>

They shot and threw grenades at the mutants in the film. Doesn't
sound like much of a difference to me.

> I will handle these together. But first I would like to point out

that the

> CONQUEST script (from the Marvel adaptation which is the only

version I have)

> was also better than the actual movie. Aldo is Caesar's chief

lieutenant and

> is a messenger gorilla. That explains why Caesar initially

trusted Aldo with a

> critical position in BATTLE. Aldo is the same ape who would have

led the

> revolt (a few months or years later probably) if Caesar hadn't
> been around.

And where exactly is this stated???

> But the Corringtons were using the scripts of the earlier movies
> for reference, not the movies themselves, and they meant for him

to be the same

> character as the CONQUEST and ESCAPE Aldo.

Have they ever said this???

> When Aldo hears "No Aldo No!" in
> BATTLE, we are supposed to be reminded of the times he hears "No

Aldo No" in

> CONQUEST. None of this directly related to the BATTLE script but

it explains

> why the Corrington's didn't give any background info on Aldo which

Eric Greene

> complains about. Note that Dehn himself created the Aldo

character in ESCAPE,

> CONQUEST, and BATTLE and Dehn also intended for him to be the same

character in

> each.
>

Again, where is this stated???

> When Caesar, McDonald, and Virgil are in the archives section

Caesar wonders

> what exactly he needs to do to "change lanes" and prevent the

Earth from being

> destroyed. When Caesar hears Cornelius mention Aldo in the

earlier script,

> he suddenly realizes that Aldo was the ape leader in the original

timeline,

And who said there was an original timeline?? Is that written in any
of the scripts??

> The Corringtons wrote a
> very coherent story, not a patchwork job.

Since you don't have the Corrington's actual script you don't really
know if that's true or not. Thompson was a very good director in his
day and I'd trust his judgement.

> The Marvel adaptation makes
> better sense than the final movie.

If memory serves Marvel did a interm story between Conquest and
Battle called "Quest for the Planet of the Apes" and then extended
the Battle adaption to 7 rather than 6 chapters. Since it was an
adaption it's very possible that the Marvel writers fleshed things
out, fixed problems and made it all jell with their interm story.

.htmlIn a message dated 7/19/2002 5:51:28 PM Central Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

In the Marvel adaptation based on the earlier script Caesar, McDonald, and Virgil are forced to shoot and kill some of Kolp's (Breck's) men in order to escape from the city.  In Kolp's mind, the war had already started when his men were killed.

They shot and threw grenades at the mutants in the film. Doesn't
sound like much of a difference to me.

There is a difference though. What he said is that they actually KILLED some mutants. In the film however, it's more like basically just returning fire after being fired upon... Plus, remember in the film, they do all they can not to kill any of them. Caesar uses the high pressure hose to ward them off for example...<.html

Some of those mutants looked pretty dead to me.

--- In pota@y..., mlccougar@a... wrote:
> There is a difference though. What he said is that they actually
KILLED some
> mutants. In the film however, it's more like basically just
returning fire
> after being fired upon... Plus, remember in the film, they do all
they can
> not to kill any of them. Caesar uses the high pressure hose to
ward them off
> for example...

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: mlccougar@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, July 19, 2002 8:14 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: BATTLE Changes

In a message dated 7/19/2002 5:51:28 PM Central Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

In the Marvel adaptation based on the earlier script Caesar, McDonald, and Virgil are forced to shoot and kill some of Kolp's (Breck's) men in order to escape from the city.  In Kolp's mind, the war had already started when his men were killed.

They shot and threw grenades at the mutants in the film. Doesn't
sound like much of a difference to me.

There is a difference though. What he said is that they actually KILLED some mutants. In the film however, it's more like basically just returning fire after being fired upon... Plus, remember in the film, they do all they can not to kill any of them. Caesar uses the high pressure hose to ward them off for example...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 7/19/02 11:15:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mlccougar@... writes:

There is a difference though. What he said is that they actually KILLED some mutants. In the film however, it's more like basically just returning fire after being fired upon... Plus, remember in the film, they do all they can not to kill any of them. Caesar uses the high pressure hose to ward them off for example...

This is an example of why it's more of a kiddie picture than something for anyone over 12 years old.<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 7/20/2002 10:07:24 AM Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

There is a difference though. What he said is that they actually KILLED some mutants. In the film however, it's more like basically just returning fire after being fired upon... Plus, remember in the film, they do all they can not to kill any of them. Caesar uses the high pressure hose to ward them off for example...

This is an example of why it's more of a kiddie picture than something for anyone over 12 years old.

I know that you're right in saying that. All I was getting at was that the three of them were not out to deliberately kill any of the mutants they came across.
<.html

Discussion seems a little quiet today so here's a quick trivia
question. (Shouldn't take too long)...

Which actor appeared in the final Apes movie that also appeared in the
original, and has also managed to net appearances in one of the
biggest sci-fi sequels ever, a superhero sequel and also a recurring
role in a popular sci-fi show of the last 30 years?

Alan

.htmlIn a message dated 7/20/02 2:08:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, alan@... writes:

Which actor appeared in the final Apes movie that also appeared in the
original, and has also managed to net appearances in one of the
biggest sci-fi sequels ever, a superhero sequel and also a recurring
role in a popular sci-fi show of the last 30 years?

Alan

I'm stumped!<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 7/20/02 2:08:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, alan@... writes:

Which actor appeared in the final Apes movie that also appeared in the
original, and has also managed to net appearances in one of the
biggest sci-fi sequels ever, a superhero sequel and also a recurring
role in a popular sci-fi show of the last 30 years?

Alan

Mmmmmmm. . . . Could it possibly be Felix Silla?<.html

Does anybody still keep in touch with Alex? If so is he still sending out the
Toon DVD's in July?
Anybody have his e-mail?

.htmlInto the Forbidden Zone, with Ursus.<.html

Rory <Haristas@...> wrote:

> > Which actor appeared in the final Apes movie that also appeared in

the

> > original, and has also managed to net appearances in one of the
> > biggest sci-fi sequels ever, a superhero sequel and also a

recurring

> > role in a popular sci-fi show of the last 30 years?
>
> Mmmmmmm. . . . Could it possibly be Felix Silla?

Go to the top of the class!

His role in Planet was uncredited (but is listed on the IMDb as an
uncredited appearance) - however, I've been tidying up lots of old
magazines and stuff today and discovered an old interview in which he
says he was also in Battle - I haven't got as far as figuring out
where!

Alan

Alex is a very private guy.

Actually, Jeff said he is having troubles with his server or something, but
apparently he is still working hard on the discs.

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: kidro85@... [kidro85@...]
> Sent: Sunday, 21 July 2002 9:48
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] POTA- Where did Alex Disappear to?
>
>
> Does anybody still keep in touch with Alex? If so is he still
> sending out the
> Toon DVD's in July?
> Anybody have his e-mail?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

No idea - please put me out of my misery.

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Maxwell [alan@...]
Sent: Sunday, 21 July 2002 4:05
To: PotA
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Trivia question...

Discussion seems a little quiet today so here's a quick trivia question.
(Shouldn't take too long)...

Which actor appeared in the final Apes movie that also appeared in the
original, and has also managed to net appearances in one of the biggest
sci-fi sequels ever, a superhero sequel and also a recurring role in a
popular sci-fi show of the last 30 years?

Alan

Hmmmm.....I think we need to construct a timeline regarding the writing of
the Battle scripts and when changes were made.

I am very interested in this conversation but I think we need to take it
slowly and start by agreeing on what happened when.

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Melkor [melkor@...]
> Sent: Saturday, 20 July 2002 8:00
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: BATTLE Changes
>
>
> > --- In pota@y..., "Melkor" <melkor@m...> wrote:
> > > The copy of the BATTLE script that Marvel used was definitely not
> > the
> > > final i.e. "shooting" script. I have a copy of the final BATTLE
> > script dated
> > > Dec. 20 1972 and it has all of Dehn's changes that are not in the
> > Marvel
> > > adaptation.
> >
> > Does your copy match the final film or are there differences?
>
> It has been awhile since I read it but I don't remember any differences
> from the final movie.
>
>
> > > In the Corrington's story Kolp (Brent) has a better reason for
> > going to
> > > war.
> >
> > Well what was it?
>
> In the Marvel adaptation based on the earlier script Caesar, McDonald,
> and Virgil are forced to shoot and kill some of Kolp's (Breck's) men
> in order to escape from the city. In Kolp's mind, the war had already
> started when his men were killed.
>
>
> > > Aldo has a better reason for launching his coup.
> >
> > And that was??
> >
> > > Caesar has better reasons for how he handles Aldo.
> >
> > Which is?????
>
>
> I will handle these together. But first I would like to point
> out that the
> CONQUEST script (from the Marvel adaptation which is the only
> version I have)
> was also better than the actual movie. Aldo is Caesar's chief
> lieutenant and
> is a messenger gorilla. That explains why Caesar initially
> trusted Aldo with a
> critical position in BATTLE. Aldo is the same ape who would have led the
> revolt (a few months or years later probably) if Caesar hadn't
> been around. Of
> course all but one of Aldo's scenes were cut in CONQUEST and he
> was changed
> into a chimp. But the Corringtons were using the scripts of the
> earlier movies
> for reference, not the movies themselves, and they meant for him
> to be the same
> character as the CONQUEST and ESCAPE Aldo. When Aldo hears "No
> Aldo No!" in
> BATTLE, we are supposed to be reminded of the times he hears "No
> Aldo No" in
> CONQUEST. None of this directly related to the BATTLE script but
> it explains
> why the Corrington's didn't give any background info on Aldo
> which Eric Greene
> complains about. Note that Dehn himself created the Aldo
> character in ESCAPE,
> CONQUEST, and BATTLE and Dehn also intended for him to be the
> same character in
> each.
>
> When Caesar, McDonald, and Virgil are in the archives section
> Caesar wonders
> what exactly he needs to do to "change lanes" and prevent the
> Earth from being
> destroyed. When Caesar hears Cornelius mention Aldo in the
> earlier script,
> he suddenly realizes that Aldo was the ape leader in the original
> timeline,
> and so, much earlier than in the final movie script, Caesar realizes he
> needs to deal with Aldo. In the earlier script Caesar's council meeting
> was an elected legislature composed of chimps, gorillas, and orangutans.
> When the gorillas leave the council, Caesar uses that as an opportunity
> to reduce Aldo's power and he permanently awards all of the legislative
> seats held by Aldo's gorillas to the human observers instead. At
> that point
> Aldo realizes his only power left is his military position, and starts
> launching plans for a military coup.
>
>
>
> >> The Lawgiver scene has a better reason for existing.
> >
> > And that is??
> >
> > > Dehn's sloppy story tweaks made not only the plot harder to
> > > understand but the whole theme of the Corrington's story harder to
> > understand
> > > than it was supposed to be.
> >
> > And what was the theme???
>
> That deserves its own post so I save that for later. Before you
> joined the group I posted a 3 part essay on BATTLE which talked about
> that and other things.
>
> > >All I see in Russo's book is Thompson and Cabra
> > > complaining about the *final* script. i.e. the version of the
> > script with
> > > Dehn's sloppy story tweaks.
> >
> > >From page 217 J. Lee Thompson states, "We had to start shooting in
> > January and the script was not in good shape. I worked with the
> > Corringtons a little bit, but there was always something not quite
> > jelling with it. It was a patchwork job. We had a lame script, which
> > wasn't awfully good, but if I had Paul working on it, we could of
> > got it better."
>
> This doesn't make a lot of sense because Dehn DID work on it for a month.
> Maybe his memory of 30 years ago was faulty. Thompson was the
> same guy who
> messed up Aldo in CONQUEST and I don't think he understood things as well
> as the writers did or he wouldn't have done so. The Corringtons wrote a
> very coherent story, not a patchwork job. The Marvel adaptation makes
> better sense than the final movie. On the other hand the earlier script
> probably would have been harder to do on the limited budget that Thompson
> had.
>
>
>
>

I think he moved in with Patrick.......

> -----Original Message-----
> From: kidro85@... [kidro85@...]
> Sent: Sunday, 21 July 2002 9:48
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] POTA- Where did Alex Disappear to?
>
>
> Does anybody still keep in touch with Alex? If so is he still
> sending out the
> Toon DVD's in July?
> Anybody have his e-mail?

.htmlIn a message dated 7/20/2002 6:54:48 PM Central Standard Time, alan@... writes:

His role in Planet was uncredited (but is listed on the IMDb as an
uncredited appearance) - however, I've been tidying up lots of old
magazines and stuff today and discovered an old interview in which he
says he was also in Battle - I haven't got as far as figuring out
where!

Alan

He was one of the child chimps in the school room scene. <.html

Does anybody still keep in touch with Alex? If so is he still sending out the

Toon DVD's in July?
Anybody have his e-mail?

He seems to dissapear a lot.
He'll probably pop up in six mouths or so, and say,
"What DVDs?"

I'm in touch with Alex because he keeps giving me updates about the DVDs
with my stuff on them (he's still working on it). The toons he's still
having trouble with, but when he says "Eureka!" I'll let you know.
- - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: <kidro85@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2002 4:47 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] POTA- Where did Alex Disappear to?


> Does anybody still keep in touch with Alex? If so is he still sending out
the
> Toon DVD's in July?
> Anybody have his e-mail?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

He played one of the chimp kids, either in the school scene or the
Lawgiver scene (or both)? Jeff Jessings had a lunch with Silla, Natalie
Trundy, Johnny Whitaker and Buck Kartalian (Julius) earlier this month.
Trundy and Whitaker sat in a corner talking about their "Tom Sawyer"
days. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Maxwell" <alan@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2002 4:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Trivia question...


> Rory <Haristas@...> wrote:
> > > Which actor appeared in the final Apes movie that also appeared in
> the
> > > original, and has also managed to net appearances in one of the
> > > biggest sci-fi sequels ever, a superhero sequel and also a
> recurring
> > > role in a popular sci-fi show of the last 30 years?
> >
> > Mmmmmmm. . . . Could it possibly be Felix Silla?
>
> Go to the top of the class!
>
> His role in Planet was uncredited (but is listed on the IMDb as an
> uncredited appearance) - however, I've been tidying up lots of old
> magazines and stuff today and discovered an old interview in which he
> says he was also in Battle - I haven't got as far as figuring out
> where!
>
> Alan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

And who's Jeff Jessings?

----- Original Message -----
From: <veetus@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2002 12:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Trivia question...


> He played one of the chimp kids, either in the school scene or the
> Lawgiver scene (or both)? Jeff Jessings had a lunch with Silla, Natalie
> Trundy, Johnny Whitaker and Buck Kartalian (Julius) earlier this month.
> Trundy and Whitaker sat in a corner talking about their "Tom Sawyer"
> days. - - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Alan Maxwell" <alan@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2002 4:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Trivia question...
>
>
> > Rory <Haristas@...> wrote:
> > > > Which actor appeared in the final Apes movie that also appeared in
> > the
> > > > original, and has also managed to net appearances in one of the
> > > > biggest sci-fi sequels ever, a superhero sequel and also a
> > recurring
> > > > role in a popular sci-fi show of the last 30 years?
> > >
> > > Mmmmmmm. . . . Could it possibly be Felix Silla?
> >
> > Go to the top of the class!
> >
> > His role in Planet was uncredited (but is listed on the IMDb as an
> > uncredited appearance) - however, I've been tidying up lots of old
> > magazines and stuff today and discovered an old interview in which he
> > says he was also in Battle - I haven't got as far as figuring out
> > where!
> >
> > Alan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

He was also Twiki the Robot on the Buck Rogers series.
Gristle P.

----- Original Message -----
From: <mlccougar@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2002 8:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Trivia question...


> In a message dated 7/20/2002 6:54:48 PM Central Standard Time,
> alan@... writes:
>
>
> > His role in Planet was uncredited (but is listed on the IMDb as an
> > uncredited appearance) - however, I've been tidying up lots of old
> > magazines and stuff today and discovered an old interview in which he
> > says he was also in Battle - I haven't got as far as figuring out
> > where!
> >
> > Alan
>
> He was one of the child chimps in the school room scene.
>

The issue is if someone can state that the Corrington's (writers of
the soap opera Texas) script rewrite is superior to Dehn's
(screenwriter of Goldfinger, The Spy who came in from the Cold &
Murder on the Orient Express) final version without ever having read
the Corrington's script. (A script which the film's Director called
a mess.)

--- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> Hmmmm.....I think we need to construct a timeline regarding the
writing of
> the Battle scripts and when changes were made.
>
> I am very interested in this conversation but I think we need to
take it
> slowly and start by agreeing on what happened when.
>
> Michael
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Melkor [melkor@m...]
> > Sent: Saturday, 20 July 2002 8:00
> > To: pota@y...
> > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: BATTLE Changes
> >
> >
> > > --- In pota@y..., "Melkor" <melkor@m...> wrote:
> > > > The copy of the BATTLE script that Marvel used was
definitely not
> > > the
> > > > final i.e. "shooting" script. I have a copy of the final
BATTLE
> > > script dated
> > > > Dec. 20 1972 and it has all of Dehn's changes that are not
in the
> > > Marvel
> > > > adaptation.
> > >
> > > Does your copy match the final film or are there differences?
> >
> > It has been awhile since I read it but I don't remember any
differences
> > from the final movie.
> >
> >
> > > > In the Corrington's story Kolp (Brent) has a better reason
for
> > > going to
> > > > war.
> > >
> > > Well what was it?
> >
> > In the Marvel adaptation based on the earlier script Caesar,
McDonald,
> > and Virgil are forced to shoot and kill some of Kolp's (Breck's)
men
> > in order to escape from the city. In Kolp's mind, the war had
already
> > started when his men were killed.
> >
> >
> > > > Aldo has a better reason for launching his coup.
> > >
> > > And that was??
> > >
> > > > Caesar has better reasons for how he handles Aldo.
> > >
> > > Which is?????
> >
> >
> > I will handle these together. But first I would like to point
> > out that the
> > CONQUEST script (from the Marvel adaptation which is the only
> > version I have)
> > was also better than the actual movie. Aldo is Caesar's chief
> > lieutenant and
> > is a messenger gorilla. That explains why Caesar initially
> > trusted Aldo with a
> > critical position in BATTLE. Aldo is the same ape who would
have led the
> > revolt (a few months or years later probably) if Caesar hadn't
> > been around. Of
> > course all but one of Aldo's scenes were cut in CONQUEST and he
> > was changed
> > into a chimp. But the Corringtons were using the scripts of the
> > earlier movies
> > for reference, not the movies themselves, and they meant for him
> > to be the same
> > character as the CONQUEST and ESCAPE Aldo. When Aldo hears "No
> > Aldo No!" in
> > BATTLE, we are supposed to be reminded of the times he hears "No
> > Aldo No" in
> > CONQUEST. None of this directly related to the BATTLE script but
> > it explains
> > why the Corrington's didn't give any background info on Aldo
> > which Eric Greene
> > complains about. Note that Dehn himself created the Aldo
> > character in ESCAPE,
> > CONQUEST, and BATTLE and Dehn also intended for him to be the
> > same character in
> > each.
> >
> > When Caesar, McDonald, and Virgil are in the archives section
> > Caesar wonders
> > what exactly he needs to do to "change lanes" and prevent the
> > Earth from being
> > destroyed. When Caesar hears Cornelius mention Aldo in the
> > earlier script,
> > he suddenly realizes that Aldo was the ape leader in the original
> > timeline,
> > and so, much earlier than in the final movie script, Caesar
realizes he
> > needs to deal with Aldo. In the earlier script Caesar's council
meeting
> > was an elected legislature composed of chimps, gorillas, and
orangutans.
> > When the gorillas leave the council, Caesar uses that as an
opportunity
> > to reduce Aldo's power and he permanently awards all of the
legislative
> > seats held by Aldo's gorillas to the human observers instead. At
> > that point
> > Aldo realizes his only power left is his military position, and
starts
> > launching plans for a military coup.
> >
> >
> >
> > >> The Lawgiver scene has a better reason for existing.
> > >
> > > And that is??
> > >
> > > > Dehn's sloppy story tweaks made not only the plot harder to
> > > > understand but the whole theme of the Corrington's story
harder to
> > > understand
> > > > than it was supposed to be.
> > >
> > > And what was the theme???
> >
> > That deserves its own post so I save that for later. Before you
> > joined the group I posted a 3 part essay on BATTLE which talked
about
> > that and other things.
> >
> > > >All I see in Russo's book is Thompson and Cabra
> > > > complaining about the *final* script. i.e. the version of
the
> > > script with
> > > > Dehn's sloppy story tweaks.
> > >
> > > >From page 217 J. Lee Thompson states, "We had to start
shooting in
> > > January and the script was not in good shape. I worked with the
> > > Corringtons a little bit, but there was always something not
quite
> > > jelling with it. It was a patchwork job. We had a lame script,
which
> > > wasn't awfully good, but if I had Paul working on it, we could
of
> > > got it better."
> >
> > This doesn't make a lot of sense because Dehn DID work on it for
a month.
> > Maybe his memory of 30 years ago was faulty. Thompson was the
> > same guy who
> > messed up Aldo in CONQUEST and I don't think he understood
things as well
> > as the writers did or he wouldn't have done so. The Corringtons
wrote a
> > very coherent story, not a patchwork job. The Marvel adaptation
makes
> > better sense than the final movie. On the other hand the
earlier script
> > probably would have been harder to do on the limited budget that
Thompson
> > had.
> >
> >
> >
> >

Buck Rogers was one of the most popular sci-fi shows of the last 30
years??? Since when???
And what role did he play in a superhero sequel??

--- In pota@y..., "Jeff & Susan Stringer" <stringe@b...> wrote:
> He was also Twiki the Robot on the Buck Rogers series.
> Gristle P.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <mlccougar@a...>
> To: <pota@y...>
> Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2002 8:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Trivia question...
>
>
> > In a message dated 7/20/2002 6:54:48 PM Central Standard Time,
> > alan@a... writes:
> >
> >
> > > His role in Planet was uncredited (but is listed on the IMDb
as an
> > > uncredited appearance) - however, I've been tidying up lots of
old
> > > magazines and stuff today and discovered an old interview in
which he
> > > says he was also in Battle - I haven't got as far as figuring
out
> > > where!
> > >
> > > Alan
> >
> > He was one of the child chimps in the school room scene.
> >

.htmlIn a message dated 7/20/2002 11:27:50 PM Central Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

The issue is if someone can state that the Corrington's (writers of
the soap opera Texas) script rewrite is superior to Dehn's
(screenwriter of Goldfinger, The Spy who came in from the Cold &
Murder on the Orient Express) final version without ever having read
the Corrington's script. (A script which the film's Director called
a mess.)

I really can't say anything about the actual "better script" dilemma, as I don't have any copies of the scripts in question. (My sources for Battle are the film, the novelizastion, and the Marvel adaption... no actual script copies here...)

But, let me point out that when you stated that Dehn wrote what would be considered "classic" scripts, and his rewrites could have only made "the mess" written by the Corringtons better, let us not forget, it was also Mr. Dehn who wrote what is considered "a mess" of a script: Beneath the Planet of the Apes.<.html

He was one of the emperor penguin pallbearers at the (Danny DeVito)
Penguin's funeral in Batman Returns.

On Saturday, July 20, 2002, at 11:29 PM, james611102 wrote:

> And what role did he play in a superhero sequel??

I've read Dehn's original script for Beneath, titled Planet of the
Apes Revisited, and it's hardly a mess. It's far superior to the
final film. As stated in Russo's book, the story problems in Beneath
are due to Mort Abrams and his "hackneyed" ideas, as Ted Post refers
to them.
And I'm not saying he made the Battle script better, J. Lee Thompson
and Frank Capra Jr. and Arthur P. Jacobs did. They brought him back
to fix the Corrington's script as soon as he was well enough to
work.

--- In pota@y..., mlccougar@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 7/20/2002 11:27:50 PM Central Standard Time,
> JamesA1102@a... writes:
>
>
> > The issue is if someone can state that the Corrington's (writers
of
> > the soap opera Texas) script rewrite is superior to Dehn's
> > (screenwriter of Goldfinger, The Spy who came in from the Cold &
> > Murder on the Orient Express) final version without ever having
read
> > the Corrington's script. (A script which the film's Director
called
> > a mess.)
>
> I really can't say anything about the actual "better script"
dilemma, as I
> don't have any copies of the scripts in question. (My sources for
Battle are
> the film, the novelizastion, and the Marvel adaption... no actual
script
> copies here...)
>
> But, let me point out that when you stated that Dehn wrote what
would be
> considered "classic" scripts, and his rewrites could have only
made "the
> mess" written by the Corringtons better, let us not forget, it was
also Mr.
> Dehn who wrote what is considered "a mess" of a script: Beneath
the Planet of
> the Apes.

He's a writer. He did some stuff for "Apes Fan" (most of their
interviews). He's in Arizona so when he's in Hollywood he gathers folks
together. I went to a lunch at Sizzler he put together with Trundy, the late
Billy Barty, Felix Silla, and Lou Wagner. Just a bunch of fun. Natalie and I
drove Felix home and I told him about Burton doing POTA and he said he'd try
to get on it. He did "Batman Returns" with Burton, played one of the
Penguin's henchmen. But I was more impressed he played Cousin Itt in the
"Addams Family" TV show (not the movie junk). Etc. - - -
Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken and Heather Taylor" <ktaylor@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2002 7:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Trivia question...


> And who's Jeff Jessings?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <veetus@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2002 12:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Trivia question...
>
>
> > He played one of the chimp kids, either in the school scene or the
> > Lawgiver scene (or both)? Jeff Jessings had a lunch with Silla, Natalie
> > Trundy, Johnny Whitaker and Buck Kartalian (Julius) earlier this month.
> > Trundy and Whitaker sat in a corner talking about their "Tom Sawyer"
> > days. - - - Jeff
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Alan Maxwell" <alan@...>
> > To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2002 4:51 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Trivia question...
> >
> >
> > > Rory <Haristas@...> wrote:
> > > > > Which actor appeared in the final Apes movie that also appeared in
> > > the
> > > > > original, and has also managed to net appearances in one of the
> > > > > biggest sci-fi sequels ever, a superhero sequel and also a
> > > recurring
> > > > > role in a popular sci-fi show of the last 30 years?
> > > >
> > > > Mmmmmmm. . . . Could it possibly be Felix Silla?
> > >
> > > Go to the top of the class!
> > >
> > > His role in Planet was uncredited (but is listed on the IMDb as an
> > > uncredited appearance) - however, I've been tidying up lots of old
> > > magazines and stuff today and discovered an old interview in which he
> > > says he was also in Battle - I haven't got as far as figuring out
> > > where!
> > >
> > > Alan
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: mlccougar@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2002 9:36 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: BATTLE Changes

In a message dated 7/20/2002 11:27:50 PM Central Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

The issue is if someone can state that the Corrington's (writers of
the soap opera Texas) script rewrite is superior to Dehn's
(screenwriter of Goldfinger, The Spy who came in from the Cold &
Murder on the Orient Express) final version without ever having read
the Corrington's script. (A script which the film's Director called
a mess.)

I really can't say anything about the actual "better script" dilemma, as I don't have any copies of the scripts in question. (My sources for Battle are the film, the novelizastion, and the Marvel adaption... no actual script copies here...)

But, let me point out that when you stated that Dehn wrote what would be considered "classic" scripts, and his rewrites could have only made "the mess" written by the Corringtons better, let us not forget, it was also Mr. Dehn who wrote what is considered "a mess" of a script: Beneath the Planet of the Apes.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

Linda Harrison is selling her $26,000 lynx coat on e-bay. Go to her site,
www.lindaharrison.com and enter the NovaShop for details. Can anyone loan me
$26,000? Please? Etc. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2002 9:27 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: BATTLE Changes


> The issue is if someone can state that the Corrington's (writers of
> the soap opera Texas) script rewrite is superior to Dehn's
> (screenwriter of Goldfinger, The Spy who came in from the Cold &
> Murder on the Orient Express) final version without ever having read
> the Corrington's script. (A script which the film's Director called
> a mess.)
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > Hmmmm.....I think we need to construct a timeline regarding the
> writing of
> > the Battle scripts and when changes were made.
> >
> > I am very interested in this conversation but I think we need to
> take it
> > slowly and start by agreeing on what happened when.
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Melkor [melkor@m...]
> > > Sent: Saturday, 20 July 2002 8:00
> > > To: pota@y...
> > > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: BATTLE Changes
> > >
> > >
> > > > --- In pota@y..., "Melkor" <melkor@m...> wrote:
> > > > > The copy of the BATTLE script that Marvel used was
> definitely not
> > > > the
> > > > > final i.e. "shooting" script. I have a copy of the final
> BATTLE
> > > > script dated
> > > > > Dec. 20 1972 and it has all of Dehn's changes that are not
> in the
> > > > Marvel
> > > > > adaptation.
> > > >
> > > > Does your copy match the final film or are there differences?
> > >
> > > It has been awhile since I read it but I don't remember any
> differences
> > > from the final movie.
> > >
> > >
> > > > > In the Corrington's story Kolp (Brent) has a better reason
> for
> > > > going to
> > > > > war.
> > > >
> > > > Well what was it?
> > >
> > > In the Marvel adaptation based on the earlier script Caesar,
> McDonald,
> > > and Virgil are forced to shoot and kill some of Kolp's (Breck's)
> men
> > > in order to escape from the city. In Kolp's mind, the war had
> already
> > > started when his men were killed.
> > >
> > >
> > > > > Aldo has a better reason for launching his coup.
> > > >
> > > > And that was??
> > > >
> > > > > Caesar has better reasons for how he handles Aldo.
> > > >
> > > > Which is?????
> > >
> > >
> > > I will handle these together. But first I would like to point
> > > out that the
> > > CONQUEST script (from the Marvel adaptation which is the only
> > > version I have)
> > > was also better than the actual movie. Aldo is Caesar's chief
> > > lieutenant and
> > > is a messenger gorilla. That explains why Caesar initially
> > > trusted Aldo with a
> > > critical position in BATTLE. Aldo is the same ape who would
> have led the
> > > revolt (a few months or years later probably) if Caesar hadn't
> > > been around. Of
> > > course all but one of Aldo's scenes were cut in CONQUEST and he
> > > was changed
> > > into a chimp. But the Corringtons were using the scripts of the
> > > earlier movies
> > > for reference, not the movies themselves, and they meant for him
> > > to be the same
> > > character as the CONQUEST and ESCAPE Aldo. When Aldo hears "No
> > > Aldo No!" in
> > > BATTLE, we are supposed to be reminded of the times he hears "No
> > > Aldo No" in
> > > CONQUEST. None of this directly related to the BATTLE script but
> > > it explains
> > > why the Corrington's didn't give any background info on Aldo
> > > which Eric Greene
> > > complains about. Note that Dehn himself created the Aldo
> > > character in ESCAPE,
> > > CONQUEST, and BATTLE and Dehn also intended for him to be the
> > > same character in
> > > each.
> > >
> > > When Caesar, McDonald, and Virgil are in the archives section
> > > Caesar wonders
> > > what exactly he needs to do to "change lanes" and prevent the
> > > Earth from being
> > > destroyed. When Caesar hears Cornelius mention Aldo in the
> > > earlier script,
> > > he suddenly realizes that Aldo was the ape leader in the original
> > > timeline,
> > > and so, much earlier than in the final movie script, Caesar
> realizes he
> > > needs to deal with Aldo. In the earlier script Caesar's council
> meeting
> > > was an elected legislature composed of chimps, gorillas, and
> orangutans.
> > > When the gorillas leave the council, Caesar uses that as an
> opportunity
> > > to reduce Aldo's power and he permanently awards all of the
> legislative
> > > seats held by Aldo's gorillas to the human observers instead. At
> > > that point
> > > Aldo realizes his only power left is his military position, and
> starts
> > > launching plans for a military coup.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >> The Lawgiver scene has a better reason for existing.
> > > >
> > > > And that is??
> > > >
> > > > > Dehn's sloppy story tweaks made not only the plot harder to
> > > > > understand but the whole theme of the Corrington's story
> harder to
> > > > understand
> > > > > than it was supposed to be.
> > > >
> > > > And what was the theme???
> > >
> > > That deserves its own post so I save that for later. Before you
> > > joined the group I posted a 3 part essay on BATTLE which talked
> about
> > > that and other things.
> > >
> > > > >All I see in Russo's book is Thompson and Cabra
> > > > > complaining about the *final* script. i.e. the version of
> the
> > > > script with
> > > > > Dehn's sloppy story tweaks.
> > > >
> > > > >From page 217 J. Lee Thompson states, "We had to start
> shooting in
> > > > January and the script was not in good shape. I worked with the
> > > > Corringtons a little bit, but there was always something not
> quite
> > > > jelling with it. It was a patchwork job. We had a lame script,
> which
> > > > wasn't awfully good, but if I had Paul working on it, we could
> of
> > > > got it better."
> > >
> > > This doesn't make a lot of sense because Dehn DID work on it for
> a month.
> > > Maybe his memory of 30 years ago was faulty. Thompson was the
> > > same guy who
> > > messed up Aldo in CONQUEST and I don't think he understood
> things as well
> > > as the writers did or he wouldn't have done so. The Corringtons
> wrote a
> > > very coherent story, not a patchwork job. The Marvel adaptation
> makes
> > > better sense than the final movie. On the other hand the
> earlier script
> > > probably would have been harder to do on the limited budget that
> Thompson
> > > had.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >

Also at www.lindaharrison.com , in the News section, you can read Linda's
review of her son's producing debut, "Road to Perdition". Certainly she's
not biased. How dare you! - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2002 9:27 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: BATTLE Changes


> The issue is if someone can state that the Corrington's (writers of
> the soap opera Texas) script rewrite is superior to Dehn's
> (screenwriter of Goldfinger, The Spy who came in from the Cold &
> Murder on the Orient Express) final version without ever having read
> the Corrington's script. (A script which the film's Director called
> a mess.)
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > Hmmmm.....I think we need to construct a timeline regarding the
> writing of
> > the Battle scripts and when changes were made.
> >
> > I am very interested in this conversation but I think we need to
> take it
> > slowly and start by agreeing on what happened when.
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Melkor [melkor@m...]
> > > Sent: Saturday, 20 July 2002 8:00
> > > To: pota@y...
> > > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: BATTLE Changes
> > >
> > >
> > > > --- In pota@y..., "Melkor" <melkor@m...> wrote:
> > > > > The copy of the BATTLE script that Marvel used was
> definitely not
> > > > the
> > > > > final i.e. "shooting" script. I have a copy of the final
> BATTLE
> > > > script dated
> > > > > Dec. 20 1972 and it has all of Dehn's changes that are not
> in the
> > > > Marvel
> > > > > adaptation.
> > > >
> > > > Does your copy match the final film or are there differences?
> > >
> > > It has been awhile since I read it but I don't remember any
> differences
> > > from the final movie.
> > >
> > >
> > > > > In the Corrington's story Kolp (Brent) has a better reason
> for
> > > > going to
> > > > > war.
> > > >
> > > > Well what was it?
> > >
> > > In the Marvel adaptation based on the earlier script Caesar,
> McDonald,
> > > and Virgil are forced to shoot and kill some of Kolp's (Breck's)
> men
> > > in order to escape from the city. In Kolp's mind, the war had
> already
> > > started when his men were killed.
> > >
> > >
> > > > > Aldo has a better reason for launching his coup.
> > > >
> > > > And that was??
> > > >
> > > > > Caesar has better reasons for how he handles Aldo.
> > > >
> > > > Which is?????
> > >
> > >
> > > I will handle these together. But first I would like to point
> > > out that the
> > > CONQUEST script (from the Marvel adaptation which is the only
> > > version I have)
> > > was also better than the actual movie. Aldo is Caesar's chief
> > > lieutenant and
> > > is a messenger gorilla. That explains why Caesar initially
> > > trusted Aldo with a
> > > critical position in BATTLE. Aldo is the same ape who would
> have led the
> > > revolt (a few months or years later probably) if Caesar hadn't
> > > been around. Of
> > > course all but one of Aldo's scenes were cut in CONQUEST and he
> > > was changed
> > > into a chimp. But the Corringtons were using the scripts of the
> > > earlier movies
> > > for reference, not the movies themselves, and they meant for him
> > > to be the same
> > > character as the CONQUEST and ESCAPE Aldo. When Aldo hears "No
> > > Aldo No!" in
> > > BATTLE, we are supposed to be reminded of the times he hears "No
> > > Aldo No" in
> > > CONQUEST. None of this directly related to the BATTLE script but
> > > it explains
> > > why the Corrington's didn't give any background info on Aldo
> > > which Eric Greene
> > > complains about. Note that Dehn himself created the Aldo
> > > character in ESCAPE,
> > > CONQUEST, and BATTLE and Dehn also intended for him to be the
> > > same character in
> > > each.
> > >
> > > When Caesar, McDonald, and Virgil are in the archives section
> > > Caesar wonders
> > > what exactly he needs to do to "change lanes" and prevent the
> > > Earth from being
> > > destroyed. When Caesar hears Cornelius mention Aldo in the
> > > earlier script,
> > > he suddenly realizes that Aldo was the ape leader in the original
> > > timeline,
> > > and so, much earlier than in the final movie script, Caesar
> realizes he
> > > needs to deal with Aldo. In the earlier script Caesar's council
> meeting
> > > was an elected legislature composed of chimps, gorillas, and
> orangutans.
> > > When the gorillas leave the council, Caesar uses that as an
> opportunity
> > > to reduce Aldo's power and he permanently awards all of the
> legislative
> > > seats held by Aldo's gorillas to the human observers instead. At
> > > that point
> > > Aldo realizes his only power left is his military position, and
> starts
> > > launching plans for a military coup.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >> The Lawgiver scene has a better reason for existing.
> > > >
> > > > And that is??
> > > >
> > > > > Dehn's sloppy story tweaks made not only the plot harder to
> > > > > understand but the whole theme of the Corrington's story
> harder to
> > > > understand
> > > > > than it was supposed to be.
> > > >
> > > > And what was the theme???
> > >
> > > That deserves its own post so I save that for later. Before you
> > > joined the group I posted a 3 part essay on BATTLE which talked
> about
> > > that and other things.
> > >
> > > > >All I see in Russo's book is Thompson and Cabra
> > > > > complaining about the *final* script. i.e. the version of
> the
> > > > script with
> > > > > Dehn's sloppy story tweaks.
> > > >
> > > > >From page 217 J. Lee Thompson states, "We had to start
> shooting in
> > > > January and the script was not in good shape. I worked with the
> > > > Corringtons a little bit, but there was always something not
> quite
> > > > jelling with it. It was a patchwork job. We had a lame script,
> which
> > > > wasn't awfully good, but if I had Paul working on it, we could
> of
> > > > got it better."
> > >
> > > This doesn't make a lot of sense because Dehn DID work on it for
> a month.
> > > Maybe his memory of 30 years ago was faulty. Thompson was the
> > > same guy who
> > > messed up Aldo in CONQUEST and I don't think he understood
> things as well
> > > as the writers did or he wouldn't have done so. The Corringtons
> wrote a
> > > very coherent story, not a patchwork job. The Marvel adaptation
> makes
> > > better sense than the final movie. On the other hand the
> earlier script
> > > probably would have been harder to do on the limited budget that
> Thompson
> > > had.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >

Dehn wrote the original screenplay. I've read it and it has his name
on it. While he may have used some of Abrams ideas, he still wrote
it. According to the Russo book, Abrams did most of the rewrites
with Dehn (who was ill at the time).
What's interesting it ends with an elder oranagatan teaching a class
of ape and human children in the Ape City ampitheater. Very similar
to the end of Battle. (The bomb in that version was just a normal
nuclear missle. Taylor & Brent escape the mutant city and return to
Ape City. There they help Cornelius & Zira launch a revolt after the
Gorilla army and the mutants are all killed when the bomb goes off.)

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> From what I understand, "Beneath" was mostly Mort Abrahams ideas
and Dehn was brought on towards the end when it was too late.
Etc. - - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: mlccougar@a...
> To: pota@y...
> Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2002 9:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: BATTLE Changes
>
>
> In a message dated 7/20/2002 11:27:50 PM Central Standard Time,
JamesA1102@a... writes:
>
>
>
> The issue is if someone can state that the Corrington's
(writers of
> the soap opera Texas) script rewrite is superior to Dehn's
> (screenwriter of Goldfinger, The Spy who came in from the Cold
&
> Murder on the Orient Express) final version without ever
having read
> the Corrington's script. (A script which the film's Director
called
> a mess.)
>
>
> I really can't say anything about the actual "better script"
dilemma, as I don't have any copies of the scripts in question. (My
sources for Battle are the film, the novelizastion, and the Marvel
adaption... no actual script copies here...)
>
> But, let me point out that when you stated that Dehn wrote what
would be considered "classic" scripts, and his rewrites could have
only made "the mess" written by the Corringtons better, let us not
forget, it was also Mr. Dehn who wrote what is considered "a mess"
of a script: Beneath the Planet of the Apes.
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.

I guess charging $5 for autographs at comic book conventions isn't
paying the rent anymore.

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> Linda Harrison is selling her $26,000 lynx coat on e-bay. Go to
her site,
> www.lindaharrison.com and enter the NovaShop for details. Can
anyone loan me
> $26,000? Please? Etc. - - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@a...>
> To: <pota@y...>
> Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2002 9:27 PM
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: BATTLE Changes
>
>
> > The issue is if someone can state that the Corrington's (writers
of
> > the soap opera Texas) script rewrite is superior to Dehn's
> > (screenwriter of Goldfinger, The Spy who came in from the Cold &
> > Murder on the Orient Express) final version without ever having
read
> > the Corrington's script. (A script which the film's Director
called
> > a mess.)
> >
> >
> > --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > > Hmmmm.....I think we need to construct a timeline regarding the
> > writing of
> > > the Battle scripts and when changes were made.
> > >
> > > I am very interested in this conversation but I think we need
to
> > take it
> > > slowly and start by agreeing on what happened when.
> > >
> > > Michael
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Melkor [melkor@m...]
> > > > Sent: Saturday, 20 July 2002 8:00
> > > > To: pota@y...
> > > > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: BATTLE Changes
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > --- In pota@y..., "Melkor" <melkor@m...> wrote:
> > > > > > The copy of the BATTLE script that Marvel used was
> > definitely not
> > > > > the
> > > > > > final i.e. "shooting" script. I have a copy of the final
> > BATTLE
> > > > > script dated
> > > > > > Dec. 20 1972 and it has all of Dehn's changes that are
not
> > in the
> > > > > Marvel
> > > > > > adaptation.
> > > > >
> > > > > Does your copy match the final film or are there
differences?
> > > >
> > > > It has been awhile since I read it but I don't remember any
> > differences
> > > > from the final movie.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > In the Corrington's story Kolp (Brent) has a better
reason
> > for
> > > > > going to
> > > > > > war.
> > > > >
> > > > > Well what was it?
> > > >
> > > > In the Marvel adaptation based on the earlier script Caesar,
> > McDonald,
> > > > and Virgil are forced to shoot and kill some of Kolp's
(Breck's)
> > men
> > > > in order to escape from the city. In Kolp's mind, the war
had
> > already
> > > > started when his men were killed.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > Aldo has a better reason for launching his coup.
> > > > >
> > > > > And that was??
> > > > >
> > > > > > Caesar has better reasons for how he handles Aldo.
> > > > >
> > > > > Which is?????
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I will handle these together. But first I would like to
point
> > > > out that the
> > > > CONQUEST script (from the Marvel adaptation which is the only
> > > > version I have)
> > > > was also better than the actual movie. Aldo is Caesar's
chief
> > > > lieutenant and
> > > > is a messenger gorilla. That explains why Caesar initially
> > > > trusted Aldo with a
> > > > critical position in BATTLE. Aldo is the same ape who would
> > have led the
> > > > revolt (a few months or years later probably) if Caesar
hadn't
> > > > been around. Of
> > > > course all but one of Aldo's scenes were cut in CONQUEST and
he
> > > > was changed
> > > > into a chimp. But the Corringtons were using the scripts of
the
> > > > earlier movies
> > > > for reference, not the movies themselves, and they meant for
him
> > > > to be the same
> > > > character as the CONQUEST and ESCAPE Aldo. When Aldo
hears "No
> > > > Aldo No!" in
> > > > BATTLE, we are supposed to be reminded of the times he
hears "No
> > > > Aldo No" in
> > > > CONQUEST. None of this directly related to the BATTLE
script but
> > > > it explains
> > > > why the Corrington's didn't give any background info on Aldo
> > > > which Eric Greene
> > > > complains about. Note that Dehn himself created the Aldo
> > > > character in ESCAPE,
> > > > CONQUEST, and BATTLE and Dehn also intended for him to be the
> > > > same character in
> > > > each.
> > > >
> > > > When Caesar, McDonald, and Virgil are in the archives section
> > > > Caesar wonders
> > > > what exactly he needs to do to "change lanes" and prevent the
> > > > Earth from being
> > > > destroyed. When Caesar hears Cornelius mention Aldo in the
> > > > earlier script,
> > > > he suddenly realizes that Aldo was the ape leader in the
original
> > > > timeline,
> > > > and so, much earlier than in the final movie script, Caesar
> > realizes he
> > > > needs to deal with Aldo. In the earlier script Caesar's
council
> > meeting
> > > > was an elected legislature composed of chimps, gorillas, and
> > orangutans.
> > > > When the gorillas leave the council, Caesar uses that as an
> > opportunity
> > > > to reduce Aldo's power and he permanently awards all of the
> > legislative
> > > > seats held by Aldo's gorillas to the human observers
instead. At
> > > > that point
> > > > Aldo realizes his only power left is his military position,
and
> > starts
> > > > launching plans for a military coup.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >> The Lawgiver scene has a better reason for existing.
> > > > >
> > > > > And that is??
> > > > >
> > > > > > Dehn's sloppy story tweaks made not only the plot harder
to
> > > > > > understand but the whole theme of the Corrington's story
> > harder to
> > > > > understand
> > > > > > than it was supposed to be.
> > > > >
> > > > > And what was the theme???
> > > >
> > > > That deserves its own post so I save that for later. Before
you
> > > > joined the group I posted a 3 part essay on BATTLE which
talked
> > about
> > > > that and other things.
> > > >
> > > > > >All I see in Russo's book is Thompson and Cabra
> > > > > > complaining about the *final* script. i.e. the version
of
> > the
> > > > > script with
> > > > > > Dehn's sloppy story tweaks.
> > > > >
> > > > > >From page 217 J. Lee Thompson states, "We had to start
> > shooting in
> > > > > January and the script was not in good shape. I worked
with the
> > > > > Corringtons a little bit, but there was always something
not
> > quite
> > > > > jelling with it. It was a patchwork job. We had a lame
script,
> > which
> > > > > wasn't awfully good, but if I had Paul working on it, we
could
> > of
> > > > > got it better."
> > > >
> > > > This doesn't make a lot of sense because Dehn DID work on it
for
> > a month.
> > > > Maybe his memory of 30 years ago was faulty. Thompson was
the
> > > > same guy who
> > > > messed up Aldo in CONQUEST and I don't think he understood
> > things as well
> > > > as the writers did or he wouldn't have done so. The
Corringtons
> > wrote a
> > > > very coherent story, not a patchwork job. The Marvel
adaptation
> > makes
> > > > better sense than the final movie. On the other hand the
> > earlier script
> > > > probably would have been harder to do on the limited budget
that
> > Thompson
> > > > had.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >

When you go out for lunch with Felix Silla does he ask if you'd pay because
he's a little short?
Thank you folks, I'll be here all week!

----- Original Message -----
From: <veetus@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2002 3:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Trivia question...


> He's a writer. He did some stuff for "Apes Fan" (most of their
> interviews). He's in Arizona so when he's in Hollywood he gathers folks
> together. I went to a lunch at Sizzler he put together with Trundy, the
late
> Billy Barty, Felix Silla, and Lou Wagner. Just a bunch of fun. Natalie and
I
> drove Felix home and I told him about Burton doing POTA and he said he'd
try
> to get on it. He did "Batman Returns" with Burton, played one of the
> Penguin's henchmen. But I was more impressed he played Cousin Itt in the
> "Addams Family" TV show (not the movie junk). Etc. - - -
> Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ken and Heather Taylor" <ktaylor@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2002 7:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Trivia question...
>
>
> > And who's Jeff Jessings?
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <veetus@...>
> > To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2002 12:18 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Trivia question...
> >
> >
> > > He played one of the chimp kids, either in the school scene or the
> > > Lawgiver scene (or both)? Jeff Jessings had a lunch with Silla,
Natalie
> > > Trundy, Johnny Whitaker and Buck Kartalian (Julius) earlier this
month.
> > > Trundy and Whitaker sat in a corner talking about their "Tom Sawyer"
> > > days. - - - Jeff
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Alan Maxwell" <alan@...>
> > > To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2002 4:51 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Trivia question...
> > >
> > >
> > > > Rory <Haristas@...> wrote:
> > > > > > Which actor appeared in the final Apes movie that also appeared
in
> > > > the
> > > > > > original, and has also managed to net appearances in one of the
> > > > > > biggest sci-fi sequels ever, a superhero sequel and also a
> > > > recurring
> > > > > > role in a popular sci-fi show of the last 30 years?
> > > > >
> > > > > Mmmmmmm. . . . Could it possibly be Felix Silla?
> > > >
> > > > Go to the top of the class!
> > > >
> > > > His role in Planet was uncredited (but is listed on the IMDb as an
> > > > uncredited appearance) - however, I've been tidying up lots of old
> > > > magazines and stuff today and discovered an old interview in which
he
> > > > says he was also in Battle - I haven't got as far as figuring out
> > > > where!
> > > >
> > > > Alan
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Sizzler?? Was Carl's Jr. closed that day???

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> He's a writer. He did some stuff for "Apes Fan" (most of their
> interviews). He's in Arizona so when he's in Hollywood he gathers
folks
> together. I went to a lunch at Sizzler he put together with
Trundy, the late
> Billy Barty, Felix Silla, and Lou Wagner. Just a bunch of fun.
Natalie and I
> drove Felix home and I told him about Burton doing POTA and he
said he'd try
> to get on it. He did "Batman Returns" with Burton, played one of
the
> Penguin's henchmen. But I was more impressed he played Cousin Itt
in the
> "Addams Family" TV show (not the movie junk).
Etc. - - -
> Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ken and Heather Taylor" <ktaylor@z...>
> To: <pota@y...>
> Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2002 7:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Trivia question...
>
>
> > And who's Jeff Jessings?
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <veetus@e...>
> > To: <pota@y...>
> > Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2002 12:18 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Trivia question...
> >
> >
> > > He played one of the chimp kids, either in the school scene
or the
> > > Lawgiver scene (or both)? Jeff Jessings had a lunch with
Silla, Natalie
> > > Trundy, Johnny Whitaker and Buck Kartalian (Julius) earlier
this month.
> > > Trundy and Whitaker sat in a corner talking about their "Tom
Sawyer"
> > > days. - - - Jeff
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Alan Maxwell" <alan@a...>
> > > To: <pota@y...>
> > > Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2002 4:51 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Trivia question...
> > >
> > >
> > > > Rory <Haristas@a...> wrote:
> > > > > > Which actor appeared in the final Apes movie that also
appeared in
> > > > the
> > > > > > original, and has also managed to net appearances in one
of the
> > > > > > biggest sci-fi sequels ever, a superhero sequel and also
a
> > > > recurring
> > > > > > role in a popular sci-fi show of the last 30 years?
> > > > >
> > > > > Mmmmmmm. . . . Could it possibly be Felix Silla?
> > > >
> > > > Go to the top of the class!
> > > >
> > > > His role in Planet was uncredited (but is listed on the IMDb
as an
> > > > uncredited appearance) - however, I've been tidying up lots
of old
> > > > magazines and stuff today and discovered an old interview in
which he
> > > > says he was also in Battle - I haven't got as far as
figuring out
> > > > where!
> > > >
> > > > Alan
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >
> >

"james611102" <JamesA1102@...> wrote:

> Buck Rogers was one of the most popular sci-fi shows of the last 30
> years??? Since when???

Hey, I didn't say "most", I said "a popular sci-fi show of the last 30
years" - even I'm not that mad.

Alan

*** The "information that could easily have been checked" WAS checked,
albeit not mere seconds prior to the posting in question (regarding
the name "Hasslein"). As I stated before, prior checks on an Internet
search engine came up with a bunch of hits on the name "Hasslein", but
the first hundred odd hits were ALL related to POTA. Perhaps it was
premature of me to suppose that odds were all the rest of the "hits"
were also POTA related. Mea culpa! I didn't have an unlimited amount
of time to surf through EVERY "Hasslein" hit to see if there was a
non-POTA reference. Mind you, this was months ago--sure, it wouldn't
have hurt to "double-check" the search engine just to see if there
were a non-POTA "Hasslein" there and, yeah, I assumed that "Hasslein"
was probably a "made-up" name: keep in mind that I also had searched
for the name in my local phone book (no luck there) and in a German
Dictionary of Names... and it wasn't there, either. Since that time,
you were able to find it in a more recent sampling from a search
engine, and I too was able to do so, after you pointed it out.
My gripe with your posting went to your condescending attitude, and
the implication that I had NOT looked for the name "Hasslein". Perhaps
you didn't (and don't) feel smug--but your posting sure as hell gave
that impression.
And where have I presented my "evidence" as though it is
incontestable? Have I ever said that EVERYBODY out there in POTA-land
MUST accept my interpretation of the "evidence"? Never! Sure, I may
disagree with certain specific interpretations that others put
forward, but I've stated numerous times that others are free to
interpret the POTA saga their own way--no matter how ridiculous I may
feel that way to sometimes be. Jeezus knows that there are those on
this site who jump at the chance to chime in with a criticism of me
(or my thoughts on POTA), pronouncing my interpretations/scenarios as
"ridiculous". Or just plain "wrong". You pointed out several non-POTA
"Hasslein" references out there, and I replied "I stand corrected".
Isn't that an example of "extending the same courtesy"? You were
right, I was wrong--based on an assumption arrived at by a prior Net
Search which SEEMED to show that "Hasslein" was invented by Serling &
Wilson (not to mention other sources which didn't mention any
"Hasslein" name at all). I'm willing to admit when I've made a
mistake, or assumed something to be true which wasn't true after
thinking I had enough info to make a "safe" conclusion. I'm not always
right--and I've never claimed to be infallible. Just because I don't
ALWAYS have access to ALL the facts doesn't mean that I don't check
the facts that ARE available to me.

Patrick
EARTH-TIME 7-21-2002

--- In pota@y..., "Anthony B. McElveen" <abmac@i...> wrote:
> Patrick,
>
> Omniscience is neither expected, nor required. You've begun several of your recent arguments with inaccurate information that could easily have been checked. You present your "evidence" as though it's incontestable, but you haven't even checked your facts. No, Patrick, I don't feel smug. I'm disappointed in you. I suggest you find one good search engine and use it.
>
> I usually read your posts hoping that you'll point out something about the Apes films that I hadn't noticed or considered. Although I don't always agree with your conclusions, I make an effort to follow the reasoning you employ to reach those conclusions. I don't feel that you extend the same courtesy to the rest of us here. That's too bad.
> Supplicate yourself before me if it "floats yer boat," but you'll have to get off your high horse first. The fall won't kill you.
>
> Anthony B. McElveen
>
> On Sunday, July 14, 2002, at 08:59 AM, patrickmichaeltilton wrote:
>
> > I get the impression, Anthony, that you're feeling rather smug, having pointed out something that I hadn't accessed yet. Power to ya, if it floats yer boat. I never claimed to be omniscient, or to have accessed every friggin database the world over in a search for anybody else (other than POTA's fictional "Otto") with the last name "Hasslein". Congratulations on finding out something that I hadn't yet become aware of. Perhaps I should supplicate myself before your almighty glory before daring to make another "pronouncement"... would that appease Your Worshipfulness?
> >
> > Patrick

OK it's good to know your sanity is in tack.

--- In pota@y..., "Alan Maxwell" <alan@a...> wrote:
> "james611102" <JamesA1102@a...> wrote:
> > Buck Rogers was one of the most popular sci-fi shows of the last
30
> > years??? Since when???
>
> Hey, I didn't say "most", I said "a popular sci-fi show of the
last 30
> years" - even I'm not that mad.
>
> Alan

--- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:

>
> According to James Burke, you know, the guy from the Connections show, Th=

e universe has an average temperature of exactly 3 degrees Kelvin. Now, sin=
ce the temperature in anything will drop to absolute zero without further he=
at input, then there had to be a Big Bang 15 billion years ago. Sorry to bur=
st your bubble Patrick. But I have to believe anything James Burke says. It=
's just the way he says it.

*** Does James Burke declare that there must have been a Big Bang due
to your assertion that "the temperature in anything will drop to
absolute zero without further heat input"? Gimme a quote from him, por
favor señor.
Big Bangers believe that the temperature of the Universe was, in
effect, INFINITELY HOT at the moment of the Big Bang, and that as the
Universe has expanded the temperature has steadily decreased to the
point where it is now, and that it will KEEP ON decreasing unless the
Inflation stops and the Universe begins contracting towards a Big
Crunch. Advocates of Hannes Alfven's "Plasma Cosmology" have a
different interpretation of the "Cosmic Background Radiation" which I
think makes more sense of the observational evidence.
Besides, the "average" temperature doesn't really matter much when the
Universe is not homogenous--Matter is "clumped" into Galactic
Superclusters... Galaxies... Star Clusters... Stars... etc. Those
clumps of Matter generate heat through the conversion of gravitational
energy into radiant energy--even planets do this, as a recent article
in DISCOVER magazine contends. The fact is, there is an "enthalpic"
tendency in the Universe, whereby Matter is being clumped together
(into Galaxies, Star systems, etc.), and then "self-organizing" via
the forces of Gravitation and Electromagnetism--resulting in the
forces of Evolution which converted simple elements into amino acids
and, ultimately, into all life on Earth. If ALL the Mass/Energy of the
Universe had been clumped into a massive Singularity at the
theoretical "beginning" of Time and then had exploded outward (an
inherently ENTROPIC circumstance), where is the "mechanism" for
bringing that Mass/Energy BACK together to produce Galaxies & Stars &
Planets & Lifeforms? The Big Bang "house of cards" has had to resort
to postulating all sorts of exotic "fix-me-ups" like WIMPs, MACHOs,
"dark matter", etc. Not ONE of these imaginary types of particles has
ever been observed, yet Big Bangers believe that SOMETHING must be
"out there" to make their paradigm still usefully describe cosmic
origins. I think they're just afraid to admit that the evidence
against the Big Bang is so compelling that an alternative scientific
theory is to be preferred.
I wonder if James Burke has ever specifically addressed the Plasma
Cosmology Theory's line of reasoning (as an alternative to the Bang)?
I'll have to track down his most recent writings and see. Very few of
the "popular" books about Cosmology even mention the Plasma Cosmology
Theory, let alone attempt to refute it. Most of the books out there
(in the "science" section of Barnes & Noble) tend to assume that the
Big Bang happened, and force-fit the evidence into that paradigm.

Patrick

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 7/19/02 11:15:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> mlccougar@a... writes:
>
>
> > There is a difference though. What he said is that they actually KILLED some mutants. In the film however, it's more like basically just returning fire after being fired upon... Plus, remember in the film, they do all they can not to kill any of them. Caesar uses the high pressure hose to ward them off for example...
> >
>
> This is an example of why it's more of a kiddie picture than something for anyone over 12 years old.

*** Hey, let's not forget that there ARE some important deaths in
BATTLE:
1.) Aldo's branch-cutting ends up killing young Cornelius.
2.) Kolp's gunner blasts one gorilla sentry into smithereens (as the
other one crawls away to warn Caesar, Aldo, etc.).
3.) Kolp himself is killed by Aldo ("No prisoners!"), which almost
leads to Alma detonating the Bomb (thanks to Mendez, she doesn't).
4.) Caesar kills Aldo, in revenge for the murder of his son.

Sure, it would've been nice if BATTLE had been "darker" in tone, with
less of a "G-rated" feel to it. Yet there's enough darkness in it to
redeem it from the "unwatchable" list.

Patrick

*** So THAT'S who has been bogarting my Cheesy Poofs! That man is a
nuisance: he eats up his food supply in the forest, and then migrates
to my kitchen cupboard and ravages my snacks! The sooner he is
exterminated the better...

Patrick

P.S. Did anybody see the "SOUTH PARK" episode last week where the kids
regress into ape-like grunting foes (in their contest for the
affection of the "cool" girl who's getting boobs), and then some NASA
astronauts crashland a shuttle near them... and assume that "they blew
it up!"... and then commit suicide? Anybody? It's the first POTA joke
I've ever seen on "SOUTH PARK" (mind you, I haven't seen every
episode... are there any others on past episodes?), and it was a riot.

--- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> I think he moved in with Patrick.......
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: kidro85@a... [kidro85@a...]
> > Sent: Sunday, 21 July 2002 9:48
> > To: pota@y...
> > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] POTA- Where did Alex Disappear to?
> >
> >
> > Does anybody still keep in touch with Alex? If so is he still
> > sending out the
> > Toon DVD's in July?
> > Anybody have his e-mail?

.htmlIn a message dated 7/21/2002 9:55:32 AM Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

*** Hey, let's not forget that there ARE some important deaths in
BATTLE:

I didn't imply that there were NO deaths in Battle, I was speaking of the trio's trip to the Forbidden City only......<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 7/20/02 7:55:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, alan@... writes:

Mmmmmmm. . . . Could it possibly be Felix Silla?

Go to the top of the class!

His role in Planet was uncredited (but is listed on the IMDb as an
uncredited appearance) - however, I've been tidying up lots of old
magazines and stuff today and discovered an old interview in which he
says he was also in Battle - I haven't got as far as figuring out
where!

Alan

One of the kid chimps in Teacher's class.<.html

Boy, Dehn was sure ill a lot. Is that why the "Ape" movies (and their
fans) are so "sick"? - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2002 11:02 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: BATTLE Changes


> Dehn wrote the original screenplay. I've read it and it has his name
> on it. While he may have used some of Abrams ideas, he still wrote
> it. According to the Russo book, Abrams did most of the rewrites
> with Dehn (who was ill at the time).
> What's interesting it ends with an elder oranagatan teaching a class
> of ape and human children in the Ape City ampitheater. Very similar
> to the end of Battle. (The bomb in that version was just a normal
> nuclear missle. Taylor & Brent escape the mutant city and return to
> Ape City. There they help Cornelius & Zira launch a revolt after the
> Gorilla army and the mutants are all killed when the bomb goes off.)
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> > From what I understand, "Beneath" was mostly Mort Abrahams ideas
> and Dehn was brought on towards the end when it was too late.
> Etc. - - - Jeff
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: mlccougar@a...
> > To: pota@y...
> > Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2002 9:36 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: BATTLE Changes
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 7/20/2002 11:27:50 PM Central Standard Time,
> JamesA1102@a... writes:
> >
> >
> >
> > The issue is if someone can state that the Corrington's
> (writers of
> > the soap opera Texas) script rewrite is superior to Dehn's
> > (screenwriter of Goldfinger, The Spy who came in from the Cold
> &
> > Murder on the Orient Express) final version without ever
> having read
> > the Corrington's script. (A script which the film's Director
> called
> > a mess.)
> >
> >
> > I really can't say anything about the actual "better script"
> dilemma, as I don't have any copies of the scripts in question. (My
> sources for Battle are the film, the novelizastion, and the Marvel
> adaption... no actual script copies here...)
> >
> > But, let me point out that when you stated that Dehn wrote what
> would be considered "classic" scripts, and his rewrites could have
> only made "the mess" written by the Corringtons better, let us not
> forget, it was also Mr. Dehn who wrote what is considered "a mess"
> of a script: Beneath the Planet of the Apes.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

All those are by the bad guys, except for Caesar killing Aldo, which is
"what he deserves". It's always proper for kids to see the bad guys killing
or getting killed. They teach you that the first day in Kiddie 101.
. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2002 7:54 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: BATTLE Changes


> --- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> > In a message dated 7/19/02 11:15:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> > mlccougar@a... writes:
> >
> >
> > > There is a difference though. What he said is that they actually
KILLED some mutants. In the film however, it's more like basically just
returning fire after being fired upon... Plus, remember in the film, they do
all they can not to kill any of them. Caesar uses the high pressure hose to
ward them off for example...
> > >
> >
> > This is an example of why it's more of a kiddie picture than something
for anyone over 12 years old.
>
> *** Hey, let's not forget that there ARE some important deaths in
> BATTLE:
> 1.) Aldo's branch-cutting ends up killing young Cornelius.
> 2.) Kolp's gunner blasts one gorilla sentry into smithereens (as the
> other one crawls away to warn Caesar, Aldo, etc.).
> 3.) Kolp himself is killed by Aldo ("No prisoners!"), which almost
> leads to Alma detonating the Bomb (thanks to Mendez, she doesn't).
> 4.) Caesar kills Aldo, in revenge for the murder of his son.
>
> Sure, it would've been nice if BATTLE had been "darker" in tone, with
> less of a "G-rated" feel to it. Yet there's enough darkness in it to
> redeem it from the "unwatchable" list.
>
> Patrick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Well you're one of us so I guess you're sick too.

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> Boy, Dehn was sure ill a lot. Is that why the "Ape" movies (and
their
> fans) are so "sick"? - - - Jeff

Obvious fans, "South Park" creators (and lovers?) Matt and Trent (what are
their names?) wrote a POTA song for the Fox POTA2001 special last year.

I took a walk down by the sea
Where I saw a half buried Statue of Liberty
And then it suddenly occured to me...

You and I live on the planet
Planet of the Apes....Etc. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2002 8:03 AM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] POTA- Where did Alex Disappear to?


> *** So THAT'S who has been bogarting my Cheesy Poofs! That man is a
> nuisance: he eats up his food supply in the forest, and then migrates
> to my kitchen cupboard and ravages my snacks! The sooner he is
> exterminated the better...
>
> Patrick
>
> P.S. Did anybody see the "SOUTH PARK" episode last week where the kids
> regress into ape-like grunting foes (in their contest for the
> affection of the "cool" girl who's getting boobs), and then some NASA
> astronauts crashland a shuttle near them... and assume that "they blew
> it up!"... and then commit suicide? Anybody? It's the first POTA joke
> I've ever seen on "SOUTH PARK" (mind you, I haven't seen every
> episode... are there any others on past episodes?), and it was a riot.
>
> --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > I think he moved in with Patrick.......
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: kidro85@a... [kidro85@a...]
> > > Sent: Sunday, 21 July 2002 9:48
> > > To: pota@y...
> > > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] POTA- Where did Alex Disappear to?
> > >
> > >
> > > Does anybody still keep in touch with Alex? If so is he still
> > > sending out the
> > > Toon DVD's in July?
> > > Anybody have his e-mail?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.htmlIn a message dated 7/20/02 11:41:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, stringe@... writes:

  He was also Twiki the Robot on the Buck Rogers series.
Gristle P.

I think in PLANET Felix Silla was the boy gorillas that says "Look, it's a man!" (Voice dubbed, of course).  In BATTLE he's one of the boy chimps.  I think the one with the rather small chin.  According to IMDB Woodrow Parfrey's son played one of the kid apes in PLANET, maybe the boy chimp in the museum.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 7/21/02 12:30:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

Buck Rogers was one of the most popular sci-fi shows of the last 30
years??? Since when???
And what role did he play in a superhero sequel??

Quasi-popular.  Silla played a penguin in "Batman Returns."  Go look him up on IMDB!<.html

Rory <Haristas@...> wrote:

> I think in PLANET Felix Silla was the boy gorillas that says "Look,

it's a

> man!" (Voice dubbed, of course).

Yeah, they would have had to have dubbed his voice. Not because he
wasn't really a child, just because nobody would have understood why a
gorilla was shouting "biddi biddi biddi".

Alan

.htmlOkay, here's my attempt to keep us busy. . .

According to Dr. Zaius what is the only kind of ape that escapes into the Forbidden Zone?

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 7/21/2002 11:49:32 AM Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

I think in PLANET Felix Silla was the boy gorillas that says "Look, it's a man!" (Voice dubbed, of course).  In BATTLE he's one of the boy chimps.  I think the one with the rather small chin.  According to IMDB Woodrow Parfrey's son played one of the kid apes in PLANET, maybe the boy chimp in the museum.

-- Ror

y

There have been a few times on eBay where there have been autographed photos of the child gorilla autographed by him (Silla) so it's pretty safe to say he was indeed the gorilla "boy."
<.html

An apostate!!!!

apos•tate \e-"pas-'tat, -tet\ noun (14c)
: one who commits apostasy
(C)1997, 1996 Zane Publishing, Inc. All rights reserved

apos•ta•sy \e-"pas-te-se\ noun pl apos•ta•sies
1 : renunciation of a religious faith
2 : abandonment of a previous loyalty : defection
(C)1997, 1996 Zane Publishing, Inc. All rights reserved

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> Okay, here's my attempt to keep us busy. . .
>
> According to Dr. Zaius what is the only kind of ape that escapes
into the
> Forbidden Zone?
>
> -- Rory

.htmlIn a message dated 7/21/2002 12:04:29 PM Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

Okay, here's my attempt to keep us busy. . .

According to Dr. Zaius what is the only kind of ape that escapes into the Forbidden Zone?

Only an apostate would flee to the Forbidden Zone...<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 7/21/02 1:26:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

An apostate!!!!

I guess that was pretty easy.<.html

.htmlOkay, here's some just off the top of my head. . . .

What did Landon want Taylor to do?

What did the children do to the upright beast?

What did Ursus think the inhabitants of the Forbidden Zone had to do?

Where there's one there's. . .?

What's Cornelius up for?

What should MacDonald understand better than anyone else?

What tradition did Breck's wife start?

What did Taylor think he and his fellow astronauts had enough of?

What did Taylor want to know there were any dangerous signs of?

During the ad hoc hearing what three things did Cornelius say he thought of Taylor?

What keeps the ape in apricots?

-- Rory <.html