.html

----- Original Message -----

From: mlccougar@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 5:22 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Hey Jeff (part II)

I suppose I should have been a little clearer in my letter... I wasn't referring to just "lost" footage from Conquest, but all of the Apes movies. I guess I should have said "Jeff, in addition to the dead (runaway) ape footage from the deleted beginning of Conquest, do you think any of your Apes contacts know of any other cut footage? If so, do you think they have any idea if it exists?"

In a message dated 8/11/2002 7:15:57 PM Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

 Natalie or Bill wouldn't know. J. Lee might (he'd probably say, "As a matter of fact, I just received a copy. A young man named Sotis had it. It's just like I remember it!"). Maybe Jacobs kept a copy, which would be at Loyola Maramount . Most likely Fox would have it somewhere, if they didn't destroy it and use it for guitar picks. Ken Taylor would probably know, since he used to work for Fox. I'll ask him the next time I see him. Etc.                          - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: mlccougar@...
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 2:39 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Hey Jeff (part II)


In his recent "posting"  (which I forwarded to the group) Whitty had this to ask of  Jeff:

Jeff, you know Eric Greene (spelling?) don't you?  If so, invite him to hop on and chat with us.  He might be able to tell us where the photo of the deleted scene came from and he may even know if a lot of the deleted/unused stuff we desire EXISTS (a good place to start).

I'm going to ask this of you Jeff (or anyone else in here with legit Apes contacts...) Do you think that perhaps Natalie Trundy or Bill Blake may have first hand knowledge of the existence of deleted/unused footage? If so, could you ask them for us?

This question goes out to you as well Rory... Do you think that Russo may have run across anything in his book research saying the unused footage still exists? Did he see any of it? Did he ever mention Ted Post saying there were unused shots still around?

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .
<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 8/11/02 10:01:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:

  In the recent "Cleopatra" documentary, they said Fox was going to scour their vaults to recreate it as completely as posible. "Conquest" is shown more often then "Cleopatra". With all the DVD and cable activity, I'm sure if uncut "Conquest" still exists, they'd find it. Etc.              - - - Jeff

I don't know about that.  I see "Cleopatra" on cable all the time.  When was the last time "Conquest" was on?  A couple months ago on Cinemax?  Recently the Fox Movie Channel showed some APES movies -- the terrible TV show compilations!  What's up with that?  And the transfers looked like crap!

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 8/11/02 10:06:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:

  Bill Blake probably knows all the cut footage, but his guess is as good as yours as to where it is. - - Jeff

The last I heard was that Bill Blake was missing in action.  He pop up yet?

-- Rory<.html

Attachments :

.html                   
        "Do I need to resort to a thought projection to get a hold
          of Whitty?  He and I are set to appear in a sumo wrestling
          competition later this month in Japan and I haven't heard
          from him in weeks!  He better show or else I'll sonic
          deterrent his ass!  That fat bastard!"



! <.html

Conquest was on Action Max about 2 or 3 weeks ago. It will be on HBO
Family next Saturday.

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> I don't know about that. I see "Cleopatra" on cable all the
time. When was
> the last time "Conquest" was on? A couple months ago on Cinemax?
Recently
> the Fox Movie Channel showed some APES movies -- the terrible TV
show
> compilations! What's up with that? And the transfers looked like
crap!
>
> -- Rory

My 2 cents is, I think it's the tv show. Looks like Galen to me, and
yes, sometimes they did darken him around the eyes more than others.
Reminds me of a picture I have with Bobby Porter for some reason.
Kass

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 7:10 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Hey Jeff (part II)

In a message dated 8/11/02 10:06:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:

  Bill Blake probably knows all the cut footage, but his guess is as good as yours as to where it is. - - Jeff

The last I heard was that Bill Blake was missing in action.  He pop up yet?

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

See? It couldn't be on HBO Family with the original cut. Maybe those Fox
suits know something after all. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 7:48 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Hey Jeff (part II)


> Conquest was on Action Max about 2 or 3 weeks ago. It will be on HBO
> Family next Saturday.
>
> --- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> > I don't know about that. I see "Cleopatra" on cable all the
> time. When was
> > the last time "Conquest" was on? A couple months ago on Cinemax?
> Recently
> > the Fox Movie Channel showed some APES movies -- the terrible TV
> show
> > compilations! What's up with that? And the transfers looked like
> crap!
> >
> > -- Rory
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

<mlccougar@...> (on behalf of Michael) wrote:

> Jeff, you know Eric Greene (spelling?) don't you? If so, invite him

to hop

> on and chat with us. He might be able to tell us where the photo of

the

> deleted scene came from and he may even know if a lot of the

deleted/unused

> stuff we desire EXISTS (a good place to start).

And I'd love to know more about those French comics when he gets his
hands on them!

Alan

"Ken and Heather Taylor" <ktaylor@...>

> There's also a picture from that scene in Eric Greene's revised

edition of

> his book.

I've not seen this version of the book - any chance of someone
scanning this picture?

Alan

Jeff <veetus@...> wrote:

>And it sounds like Fox wants to at least release
>the others anamorphic (the "Evolution" set was the
>last one before Fox instituted it's anamorphic policy).

I guess that's one time the UK got the better end of the deal then...
but on the subject of the DVD releases - does anyone know why Escape
is the only one in mono? I thought it was a bit strange that this
would be in mono while the others were all in stereo at the very
least.

Alan

Jeff <veetus@...> wrote:

> This dialogue was in the theatrical release and the
> (non-letterboxed) early videos but not the '93 release. It was put

back in

> for the "Special Editions". Thus, there is not a "complete"

letterboxed

> edition of the original flick in existence and probably never will

be.

Unless Alex's friend Sotis puts one together himself!

Alan

<Haristas@...> wrote:

> Anyone ever see a better reproduction of this photo?

I'm not usually much good at distinguising between the make-ups but
I'm with the majority - I think this is DEFINITELY from the TV series.

Alan

.htmlIn a message dated 8/12/02 3:11:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, alan@... writes:

And I'd love to know more about those French comics when he gets his
hands on them!

Alan

I'll bet they're pretty much the same as the English ones, except the apes eat frog's legs and say "Oui oui!" a lot, and think Jerry Lewis is a comic genius.

-- Rory<.html

Attachments :

.htmlIn a message dated 8/12/02 3:12:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, alan@... writes:

I guess that's one time the UK got the better end of the deal then...
but on the subject of the DVD releases - does anyone know why Escape
is the only one in mono? I thought it was a bit strange that this
would be in mono while the others were all in stereo at the very
least.

Alan

I was puzzled by that myself, Mr. Alan.  At the risk of boring everyone here, let me say, and if I bore you too bad, that with the exception of the PLANET all the sequels were originally mono.  When they were put out in VHS on Playhouse Video in 1985, ESCAPE, CONQUEST and BATTLE were given "fake" stereo soundtracks by a company called Chase Productions.  This was done by taking the separate mono dialogue, sound effects and music tracks (which the studios keep on all their movies) and electronically remixing them 'opening up' the mono for two track stereo and 'pot paning' them (moving the sound left, right or center).  A mono suuround track was also created but only for "ambience."  When the movies were re-issued on VHS again in 1990 with new package and a lower price, PLANET and BENEATH had been given the Chase treatment.  These soundtracks were carried over unto the original laserdiscs.  (I don't know if the Japanese boxed set of all the APES films had stereo tracks or not.  Maybe Alex can answer that for me since he has it.)  But when the APES films were given the THX treatment for the 30th Anniversary 1998 re-release, they had their stereo soundtracks redone a lot better.  I don't think they used the stereo recordings of the music for BENEATH, CONQUEST and BATTLE because if you compare the Tapes or the DVDs with the FSM CDs of the scores you'll notice on the CDs the music has true separation.  Only on PLANET do you here the score in true stereo, but I'll get back to that.  As for ESCAPE. . . . I think it might have been decided that because there isn't much action in ESCAPE it wasn't worth the cost to create a new stereo soundtrack for it and the previous one that Chase did in the eighties wasn't now good enough for a THX release.  Either that or somebody bothered to ask Don Taylor while he was still alive (the director, if living, is supposed to have the final word) what he wanted and he said "Leave it mono."  Now, about PLANET.  I think I've told you all this before, but here goes again.  PLANET was originally released in 4-track MagOptical stereo surround (one channel left, one right, one center, and one rear), as were a number of Fox films in the fifties and sixties.  This meant that there were four magnetic mono soundtrack strips glued to the movie print on either side of the sprocket holes.  There was also a mono 'optical' track of the entire soundtrack, hence the name MagOptical, for theatres that didn't have projectors that played the magnetic tracks -- which most theatres in those days didn't have.  I've been told that only twelve prints with the magnetic tracks were prepared for PLANET's original release and that none have survived.  Where the masters are no one knows.  What you have on the 30th Anniversary edition of PLANET is a 'reconstruction' of the original stereo surround soundtrack using the original recordings of the dialogue (most of it 'looped'), the sound effects, and the true stereo recordings from the score's session tapes which are done on 35mm magnetic film.  This is nice, especially since it meant the people at Chase could create a Dolby Digital 5.1 soundtrack for PLANET.  However, I don't think they did the job as well as they could have.  If you listen to any of the Fox films from the fifties and sixties that still have their 4-channel soundtracks you'll hear that Fox liked to "directionalize" the dialogue.  That means that when someone is standing on the right of the Cinemascope or Panavision frame, their voice comes from the right speaker, which in a theatre would be behind the right side of the screen of course.  If that person were to move from the right to the left on the screen while talking the whole time, the sound of their voice would 'pan' with them from the right speaker to the center to the left.  You can hear this on the DVDs for THE ROBE, VOYAGE TO THE BOTTOM OF THE SEA, the original THE FLY and Arthur Jacobs' DR. DOLITTLE, and others.  This is why these films have 4.0 Dolby Digital soundtracks on the DVDs because they have the original 4-track recordings and have just cleaned them up and digitized them.  If you have a surround system with Dolby 5.1, listen to the scene at the gorge in PLANET between Taylor on the right and Cornelius on the left.  Their dialogue should come from the right and left respectively with the echo in the rear surround, but it doesn't, the dialogue all comes from the center channel.  This isn't good enough for me.  I've written to Fox and asked them to "please" do a re-mix of PLANET's soundtrack for a 5 Star Edition DVD and directionalize the dialogue as it should be, but I doubt they'll do it.  Many reviewers of the PLANET DVD talk about how the stereo is hardly even stereo, so maybe Fox will heard this and will attempt something better.  I hope so.  OK, I've said enough.
                   
                    "That man talks too much, but he's no Patrick
                     Michael Tilton, thank the Lawgiver.  What a
                     menace he is!"

-- Rory <.html

.htmlIn a message dated 8/12/02 3:12:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, alan@... writes:

I've not seen this version of the book - any chance of someone
scanning this picture?

Alan

I'll try to get around to it, if somebody doesn't do it before me.  It's just a shot of a gorilla lying dead on the cement with blood flowing from his head.

-- Rory<.html

I don't think anyone got the better end of the deal. We'll all shell out
for the special eds anyway. I don't think there's any legit reason anyone
can think of why "Escape" is mono. Unless it costs more to release them in
stereo and they thought it didn't need it since it's all talk?
- - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Maxwell" <alan@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 12:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] BENEATH DVD cover


> Jeff <veetus@...> wrote:
> >And it sounds like Fox wants to at least release
> >the others anamorphic (the "Evolution" set was the
> >last one before Fox instituted it's anamorphic policy).
>
> I guess that's one time the UK got the better end of the deal then...
> but on the subject of the DVD releases - does anyone know why Escape
> is the only one in mono? I thought it was a bit strange that this
> would be in mono while the others were all in stereo at the very
> least.
>
> Alan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Attachments :

.htmlLeonard Maltin's 2003 Movie & Video Guide is out and this is the guide which tends to be my bible on the merits of most movies.  I've been waiting for what it would have to say about POTA 2001.  As you may or may not know it gives the classic APES movies the following star * ratings:  PLANET ***and a half *, BENEATH ** and a half *, ESCAPE ***, CONQUEST ** and a half*, and BATTLE **.  I would give each movie another half * -- but I'm prejudice!  They also call PLANET a "near-classic" and of course we all know that's wrong.

Anyway, here's what they say about POTA 2001, and it's better than what I would say!

** and a half*

"Entertaining if forgettable rethink of the 1968 film, as an astronaut crash-lands on a planet ruled by apes, where humans are slaves and regarded as scum.  One ape, the daughter of a prominent senator, thinks otherwise, and even agrees to help Wahlberg escape.  A good yarn with great production design and impressive makeup by Rick Baker.  Finale, with Rod Serling overtones, is the major letdown.  Charlton Heston is arresting in his unbilled apprearance, and Linda Harrison (also from the original cast) appears briefly."

I think this review is rather kind and obviously shows that whoever wrote it. . . . NEVER READ  F#*!ING THE BOOK!

                  
                              "God damn them all to hell!"

-- Rory <.html

.htmlIn a message dated 8/12/2002 12:06:42 AM Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

Amaaazing Blake
How sweet the ape
That saved a poor wretch like me-e-e!

He once was lost
But now is found
Was blinded by makeup in his eyes
But now can see-e-e-e!


He's around. - - - Jeff

What are his latest projects going on within Hollywood? I know this will more than likely become off topic (as there are no Apes projects in the works), but what the hell... We might as well keep up the convo in here somehow...

<.html

.html

In a message dated 8/12/2002 12:06:42 AM Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

Amaaazing Blake
How sweet the ape
That saved a poor wretch like me-e-e!

He once was lost
But now is found
Was blinded by makeup in his eyes
But now can see-e-e-e!


He's around. - - - Jeff

Oh, I didn't catch it at first, now I think I see -- he became a born-again ape.

-- Rory<.html

Attachments :

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 8:29 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Maltin's 2003

Leonard Maltin's 2003 Movie & Video Guide is out and this is the guide which tends to be my bible on the merits of most movies.  I've been waiting for what it would have to say about POTA 2001.  As you may or may not know it gives the classic APES movies the following star * ratings:  PLANET ***and a half *, BENEATH ** and a half *, ESCAPE ***, CONQUEST ** and a half*, and BATTLE **.  I would give each movie another half * -- but I'm prejudice!  They also call PLANET a "near-classic" and of course we all know that's wrong.

Anyway, here's what they say about POTA 2001, and it's better than what I would say!

** and a half*

"Entertaining if forgettable rethink of the 1968 film, as an astronaut crash-lands on a planet ruled by apes, where humans are slaves and regarded as scum.  One ape, the daughter of a prominent senator, thinks otherwise, and even agrees to help Wahlberg escape.  A good yarn with great production design and impressive makeup by Rick Baker.  Finale, with Rod Serling overtones, is the major letdown.  Charlton Heston is arresting in his unbilled apprearance, and Linda Harrison (also from the original cast) appears briefly."

I think this review is rather kind and obviously shows that whoever wrote it. . . . NEVER READ  F#*!ING THE BOOK!

                  
                              "God damn them all to hell!"

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 8:37 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Hey Jeff (part II)

In a message dated 8/12/2002 12:06:42 AM Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

Amaaazing Blake
How sweet the ape
That saved a poor wretch like me-e-e!

He once was lost
But now is found
Was blinded by makeup in his eyes
But now can see-e-e-e!


He's around. - - - Jeff

Oh, I didn't catch it at first, now I think I see -- he became a born-again ape.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .
<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: mlccougar@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 8:31 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Hey Jeff (part II)

In a message dated 8/12/2002 12:06:42 AM Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

Amaaazing Blake
How sweet the ape
That saved a poor wretch like me-e-e!

He once was lost
But now is found
Was blinded by makeup in his eyes
But now can see-e-e-e!


He's around. - - - Jeff

What are his latest projects going on within Hollywood? I know this will more than likely become off topic (as there are no Apes projects in the works), but what the hell... We might as well keep up the convo in here somehow...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 8/13/02 12:20:54 AM Eastern Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:

  he's had some setbacks recently. He got out of the makeup grind because of it's longterm health risks. He's built props and stuff for movies ("Batman Forever". "Jurassic 2"), TV ("Space: Above and Beyond") and commercials (there was one for a phone company where he built a dime). His agent has approached a certain TV show to an "Ape-themed episode, and if it pans out it'll be right up there with "The Simpsons" musical and "Ask Dr. Zira". More details if it pans out. - - - Jeff

What are the longterm health risks of the makeup grind? 

A certain TV show having an Apes-themed episode?  Probably That 70s Show.

-- Rory<.html

I was watching The Chase on TV today and while they were following Charile
Sheen's high speed chase on a portable television the signal shifted and cut
to Heston screaming "Take Your Stinking Paws Off Me, YOU DAMNED DITRY APE!"
The ultimate Apes reference!

I saw an interesting spot on Eastwood directing. Seems he always finishes
before time and under budget. His attitude? Shoot fast and move one. He
feels that if you can't get it in three takes you have no business in the big
leagues. And he'd like it on the first. How does this relate to POTA? He
worked with Kim on MITGOGE. You suss out the anagram.

.html

I wish him well.

I just hope he can remember if the guns are loaded or not.  I'd say that if you should happen to get an invitation to go shooting with him, respectfull decline.
<.html

.html

CRAP!  What about the classic apes?!!!

They used to have them.  I remember someone gave me a postcard of Zira.  She didn't look much better then the Mego figures.<.html

.htmlOkay, T, this item is supposed to be an actual Kim Hunter appliance from PLANET.  It's on eBay so what's your bid?

How about a bid of nothing?
I'm skint and that thing is in very poor condition.
I can't find it.  What's it listed under?  What are the rates?<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 8/13/02 7:10:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

I was watching The Chase on TV today and while they were following Charile
Sheen's high speed chase on a portable television the signal shifted and cut
to Heston screaming "Take Your Stinking Paws Off Me, YOU DAMNED DITRY APE!" 
The ultimate Apes reference!

Yeah, that movie was directed by Adam Rifkin.  He tried to get a sixth APES sequel started at Fox in the late eighties.  Good thing he didn't.

-- Rory<.html

Attachments :

.html                   
Click here: eBay item 1555017016 (Ends Aug-18-02 20:56:20 PDT ) - ACKERMAN COLLECTION PLANET OF THE APES ZIRA

Okay, T, this item is supposed to be an actual Kim Hunter appliance from PLANET.  It's on eBay so what's your bid?

How about a bid of nothing?
I'm skint and that thing is in very poor condition.
I can't find it.  What's it listed under?  What are the rates?   T

It's over three hundred bucks now.  I wonder if it's really from PLANET.  A few weeks ago they had a Maurice Evans one that Chambers gave somebody.  It was in near mint condition and it sold for over $1000.00.  I'll bet somebody at Apemania got it.  You could do a perfect Dr. Zaius with it.  This one with Zira too.

-- Rory
<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 8:44 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Hey Jeff (part II)

In a message dated 8/13/02 12:20:54 AM Eastern Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:

  he's had some setbacks recently. He got out of the makeup grind because of it's longterm health risks. He's built props and stuff for movies ("Batman Forever". "Jurassic 2"), TV ("Space: Above and Beyond") and commercials (there was one for a phone company where he built a dime). His agent has approached a certain TV show to an "Ape-themed episode, and if it pans out it'll be right up there with "The Simpsons" musical and "Ask Dr. Zira". More details if it pans out. - - - Jeff

What are the longterm health risks of the makeup grind? 

A certain TV show having an Apes-themed episode?  Probably That 70s Show.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

Yes, that was directed by Adam Rifkin, who initiated the dash to do a new
"Apes" back in '88. Etc. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: <LordTZer0@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 4:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Charlie Hero


>
> I was watching The Chase on TV today and while they were following Charile
> Sheen's high speed chase on a portable television the signal shifted and
cut
> to Heston screaming "Take Your Stinking Paws Off Me, YOU DAMNED DITRY
APE!"
> The ultimate Apes reference!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 8/12/02 3:12:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> [Unable to display image]
> "That man talks too much, but he's no Patrick
> Michael Tilton, thank the Lawgiver. What a
> menace he is!"
>
> -- Rory

*** Here I am reading Rory's masterful description of the PLANET
stereo sound minutiae, and WHAMMO!--a slam right outta nowhere! And
it's freaky, but it's as if you were reading my mind, given the
subject matter of my next serious POTA posting... coming at ya as soon
as I finish reading the rest of the interim postings.

Patrick

.htmlIt's over three hundred bucks now.  I wonder if it's really from PLANET.  A few weeks ago they had a Maurice Evans one that Chambers gave somebody.  It was in near mint condition and it sold for over $1000.00.  I'll bet somebody at Apemania got it.

Actually I see that Brian's the top bidder.  I hope he gets it.  He needs to work on his Zira, and not just her muzzle.  He's got her with brown eyes!  Everybody knows Kim's eyes are hazel.  Her bust is just not up to snuff.  Look at their other work and compare.  Anyhow, new ones from Apemainia will be cheaper than three hundred bucks.  And foam is foam.  I doubt you're going to be able to smell her cigarette breath on it after thirty years, or tell what she had for lunch that day or anything.  The foam latex stink would be the only lasting scent.  Brian can do more with it than I could.  And he should have them done by the time I can afford them.  Now if only they can get real Asian hairgoods and wigs!  I'd pay the big bucks for that!  The wig ha has on that bust is just awful.  There's no body to her hair at all!<.html

*** Maltin deserved what the gremlins did to him (in GREMLINS 2: THE
NEW BATCH), after his oh-so-wrong critique of the first GREMLINS
flick. How could he not like GREMLINS? Was it too scary for the
kiddies he probably thought it was made for? At least he had enough of
a sense of humor to do the cameo, though...

Patrick

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> Yeah, I took a peak at the book. He only gave a half star more for "Lord of the Rings" than POTA2001. A few issues back in "Premiere'" they had a round -up of what the critics thought of the 2001 movies, and Maltin was one of the kindest toward POTA (along with Roger Ebert). Plus people are more easy-going with it when they're not fans of the original (I think "near classic" denotes he's not particularly a fan). I've never followed Maltin much, I find him kind of a prude when it comes to the more interesting movies. Natalie gave me his 2001 edition, though, so I do refer to it. - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Haristas@a...
> To: pota@y...
> Sent: Monday, August 12, 2002 8:29 PM
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Maltin's 2003
>
>
> Leonard Maltin's 2003 Movie & Video Guide is out and this is the guide which tends to be my bible on the merits of most movies. I've been waiting for what it would have to say about POTA 2001. As you may or may not know it gives the classic APES movies the following star * ratings: PLANET ***and a half *, BENEATH ** and a half *, ESCAPE ***, CONQUEST ** and a half*, and BATTLE **. I would give each movie another half * -- but I'm prejudice! They also call PLANET a "near-classic" and of course we all know that's wrong.
>
> Anyway, here's what they say about POTA 2001, and it's better than what I would say!
>
> ** and a half*
>
> "Entertaining if forgettable rethink of the 1968 film, as an astronaut crash-lands on a planet ruled by apes, where humans are slaves and regarded as scum. One ape, the daughter of a prominent senator, thinks otherwise, and even agrees to help Wahlberg escape. A good yarn with great production design and impressive makeup by Rick Baker. Finale, with Rod Serling overtones, is the major letdown. Charlton Heston is arresting in his unbilled apprearance, and Linda Harrison (also from the original cast) appears briefly."
>
> I think this review is rather kind and obviously shows that whoever wrote it. . . . NEVER READ F#*!ING THE BOOK!
>
>
> "God damn them all to hell!"
>
> -- Rory
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.

After reading various books--and seeing various documentaries on TLC,
The History Channel and the Discovery channel--regarding the on-going
controversy about whether or not the Sphinx on the Giza Plateau is
really supposed to represent the Pharaoh Khephren/Khafre... it got me
to thinking. You see, according to the "fringe" theorists (like Graham
Hancock, Robert Bauval, John Anthony West, Robert Schock, etc.), who
had a former NY police forensics artist compare a known lifesized
statue of Khephren to the face on the Sphinx, the faces are NOT
identical. If we assume that the Egyptian sculptors were capable of
faithfully representing a specific person's features in statuary (a
fair assumption), then it can be shown--as the forensics artist did--
that IF the lifesized statue is true to Khephren's actual features,
then the Sphinx's face is NOT that of Khephren... no matter how much
the orthodox Egyptology establishment insists it is.

Similarly, there are those who speculate that the various paintings,
mosaics, frescoes (etc.) portraying the face of Jesus were all based
on the blurry image that somehow (miraculously?) ended up on the
famous Shroud of Turin. Even though it's been carbon-dated to the 14th
century (or so), the Shroud is still thought by "true-believers" to be
the actual burial cloth of Jesus, into which the power of God etched
the very likeness of His Son...
Hmmm... maybe, maybe not. An interesting topic.

So what does this have to do with the Lawgiver?

Compare the face of the Lawgiver as represented on the Statue shown in
both PLANET and BENEATH with the face of the Lawgiver character
portrayed by John Huston in BATTLE. Perhaps James (or somebody else
who has the ability) could post a side-by-side set of frame-grab
pictures, so that we all can look for similarities or dissimilarities.

Does the Statue of the Lawgiver look like the John Huston-in-makeup
character? I don't think so. There was an argument some time back
regarding whether or not the BATTLE prologue/epilogue "Lawgiver"
character was supposed to be the SAME Lawgiver (albeit in an altered
Future) from PLANET. I argued against it for chronological reasons,
primarily: the PLANET Lawgiver wrote the Sacred Scrolls "1200 years"
before the events of PLANET (i.e. either 3955 or 3978 minus 1200, or
2755-to-2778 A.D.), whereas the BATTLE frame sequence takes place in
2670 A.D., about a century before. Others argued that the 3955/3978
dates for PLANET are merely mistakes of the spaceship's approximate
depiction of "EARTH-TIME" ("give or take a decade" was quoted from
Taylor, to give the impression that the clocks weren't so perfectly
accurate as I would like to think).

One could argue that the Lawgiver's likeness might never have been
depicted in stone before his death, and--since photography didn't get
invented until sometime after 3085 (in "The Legacy" Zaius wonders how
the humans were able to photograph Virdon and his wife & son) and
before the events of PLANET (when the hunting gorillas pose with their
catch: "Smile!")--there was no accurate depiction of his face for the
sculptor to go by. Thus, the dissimilarity between the actual facial
features of the Lawgiver and the features depicted by the unknown
sculptor could merely be "artistic license"--a sort of "idealized"
visual representation of "the greatest ape of all".

Regarding the iconographic imagery of Christ, I've heard it argued
that the popular image of his face cannot be correct due to the
incident said to have taken place in the gospels: when Judas led the
Romans to the Garden of Gethsemane in order to betray Jesus, his
method of pointing out Jesus (to differentiate him from his disciples)
was to give him "the Judas kiss". After all, Jesus and his followers
were Jews, and they must have dressed similarly; if Jesus had worn any
sort of regalia, it would have made him stand out in the crowd, and
the Roman soldiers wouldn't have needed Judas to point him out. The
iconographic image of Christ's face does not depict a Jew (which both
genealogies--despite their differences--agree he was, since he was a
descendant, allegedly, of King David of the tribe of Judah), which
implies that the popular image of Jesus is based on a European
esthetic: blond hair, blue eyes, aquiline nose, etc.

So, one could argue that the after-the-fact sculpted depictions of the
Lawgiver were idealized representations which the sculptor--if no one
else--knew was probably not accurate. However, if the Lawgiver had
been portrayed either in painting or in sculpture BEFORE his death,
then chances are the artist would use his/her skills to the utmost and
depict the Lawgiver as he truly appeared.

Maybe "all apes look the same to most humans" (to twist Zira's remark
to Taylor around), but the Statue of the Lawgiver doesn't look like
the BATTLE Lawgiver. At least not to me.

Whether you, James, agree with me or not on this one, it would be nice
if you could use your talents to post that side-by-side set of
pictures from PLANET (or BENEATH) and BATTLE, just so we can all judge
for ourselves.

Patrick Michael Tilton
EARTH-TIME 8-13-2002

"He BLEEDS! The Lawgiver BLEEDS!"

How about this for a chronology? The Lawgiver statue came first. The
original POTA came out in 1968, starring the statue. In 1973 they filmed
"Battle". They lucked into having the famed personage of John Huston to play
the Lawgiver, and they went for it. They did not try to match the actor to
the likeness of the statue. There are also those, like myself, who don't
believe in a circular chronology and therefore feel the POTA and "Battle"
Lawgiver are not one and the same.- - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 9:53 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] The Lawgiver Statue


> After reading various books--and seeing various documentaries on TLC,
> The History Channel and the Discovery channel--regarding the on-going
> controversy about whether or not the Sphinx on the Giza Plateau is
> really supposed to represent the Pharaoh Khephren/Khafre... it got me
> to thinking. You see, according to the "fringe" theorists (like Graham
> Hancock, Robert Bauval, John Anthony West, Robert Schock, etc.), who
> had a former NY police forensics artist compare a known lifesized
> statue of Khephren to the face on the Sphinx, the faces are NOT
> identical. If we assume that the Egyptian sculptors were capable of
> faithfully representing a specific person's features in statuary (a
> fair assumption), then it can be shown--as the forensics artist did--
> that IF the lifesized statue is true to Khephren's actual features,
> then the Sphinx's face is NOT that of Khephren... no matter how much
> the orthodox Egyptology establishment insists it is.
>
> Similarly, there are those who speculate that the various paintings,
> mosaics, frescoes (etc.) portraying the face of Jesus were all based
> on the blurry image that somehow (miraculously?) ended up on the
> famous Shroud of Turin. Even though it's been carbon-dated to the 14th
> century (or so), the Shroud is still thought by "true-believers" to be
> the actual burial cloth of Jesus, into which the power of God etched
> the very likeness of His Son...
> Hmmm... maybe, maybe not. An interesting topic.
>
> So what does this have to do with the Lawgiver?
>
> Compare the face of the Lawgiver as represented on the Statue shown in
> both PLANET and BENEATH with the face of the Lawgiver character
> portrayed by John Huston in BATTLE. Perhaps James (or somebody else
> who has the ability) could post a side-by-side set of frame-grab
> pictures, so that we all can look for similarities or dissimilarities.
>
> Does the Statue of the Lawgiver look like the John Huston-in-makeup
> character? I don't think so. There was an argument some time back
> regarding whether or not the BATTLE prologue/epilogue "Lawgiver"
> character was supposed to be the SAME Lawgiver (albeit in an altered
> Future) from PLANET. I argued against it for chronological reasons,
> primarily: the PLANET Lawgiver wrote the Sacred Scrolls "1200 years"
> before the events of PLANET (i.e. either 3955 or 3978 minus 1200, or
> 2755-to-2778 A.D.), whereas the BATTLE frame sequence takes place in
> 2670 A.D., about a century before. Others argued that the 3955/3978
> dates for PLANET are merely mistakes of the spaceship's approximate
> depiction of "EARTH-TIME" ("give or take a decade" was quoted from
> Taylor, to give the impression that the clocks weren't so perfectly
> accurate as I would like to think).
>
> One could argue that the Lawgiver's likeness might never have been
> depicted in stone before his death, and--since photography didn't get
> invented until sometime after 3085 (in "The Legacy" Zaius wonders how
> the humans were able to photograph Virdon and his wife & son) and
> before the events of PLANET (when the hunting gorillas pose with their
> catch: "Smile!")--there was no accurate depiction of his face for the
> sculptor to go by. Thus, the dissimilarity between the actual facial
> features of the Lawgiver and the features depicted by the unknown
> sculptor could merely be "artistic license"--a sort of "idealized"
> visual representation of "the greatest ape of all".
>
> Regarding the iconographic imagery of Christ, I've heard it argued
> that the popular image of his face cannot be correct due to the
> incident said to have taken place in the gospels: when Judas led the
> Romans to the Garden of Gethsemane in order to betray Jesus, his
> method of pointing out Jesus (to differentiate him from his disciples)
> was to give him "the Judas kiss". After all, Jesus and his followers
> were Jews, and they must have dressed similarly; if Jesus had worn any
> sort of regalia, it would have made him stand out in the crowd, and
> the Roman soldiers wouldn't have needed Judas to point him out. The
> iconographic image of Christ's face does not depict a Jew (which both
> genealogies--despite their differences--agree he was, since he was a
> descendant, allegedly, of King David of the tribe of Judah), which
> implies that the popular image of Jesus is based on a European
> esthetic: blond hair, blue eyes, aquiline nose, etc.
>
> So, one could argue that the after-the-fact sculpted depictions of the
> Lawgiver were idealized representations which the sculptor--if no one
> else--knew was probably not accurate. However, if the Lawgiver had
> been portrayed either in painting or in sculpture BEFORE his death,
> then chances are the artist would use his/her skills to the utmost and
> depict the Lawgiver as he truly appeared.
>
> Maybe "all apes look the same to most humans" (to twist Zira's remark
> to Taylor around), but the Statue of the Lawgiver doesn't look like
> the BATTLE Lawgiver. At least not to me.
>
> Whether you, James, agree with me or not on this one, it would be nice
> if you could use your talents to post that side-by-side set of
> pictures from PLANET (or BENEATH) and BATTLE, just so we can all judge
> for ourselves.
>
> Patrick Michael Tilton
> EARTH-TIME 8-13-2002
>
> "He BLEEDS! The Lawgiver BLEEDS!"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

*** How difficult would it have been for the make-up men (Chambers, or
Streipeke, or Fred Blau, take your pick--whichever one did Huston's
ape-appliances) to cook up a make-up job that looked like the Lawgiver
statue? We're not talking about "matching the actor to the likeness of
the statue"--the actor is a human being! It's the make-up he's wearing
that matters! You could get almost anybody to look like any ape
character, just by sculpting the same ape face onto the plaster cast
of the different actor's face; as long as the ape appliances are
sculpted right you can have different actors portraying the same ape
(as probably happened with the stunt doubles for Cornelius, Zira,
Zaius, etc.). The make-up artists COULD have made John Huston up to
look like the spittin' image of that statue... but they didn't. I'm
just wondering why.
In regards to whether or not the anti-circular-timeline advocates
think of "the Lawgiver" as being either the SAME person or not--that
is, a "changed" human-tolerant outlook instead of the anti-human
outlook that he WOULD have had if not for Caesar's impact--I always
thought they advocated that the person is the same, but that the
Timeline had been altered to change the individual, so that he wrote a
benign scripture instead of the incendiary Sacred Scrolls Zaius quoted
from. I guess one could imagine, though, an entirely different
individual ending up being referred to as a "Lawgiver" by the
integrated society of 2670, as you conclude.

Patrick

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> How about this for a chronology? The Lawgiver statue came first. The original POTA came out in 1968, starring the statue. In 1973 they filmed "Battle". They lucked into having the famed personage of John Huston to play the Lawgiver, and they went for it. They did not try to match the actor to the likeness of the statue. There are also those, like myself, who don't believe in a circular chronology and therefore feel the POTA and "Battle" Lawgiver are not one and the same.
- - Jeff

> ----- Original Message -----


> After reading various books--and seeing various documentaries on TLC, The History Channel and the Discovery channel--regarding the on-going controversy about whether or not the Sphinx on the Giza Plateau is really supposed to represent the Pharaoh Khephren/Khafre... it got me to thinking. You see, according to the "fringe" theorists (like Graham Hancock, Robert Bauval, John Anthony West, Robert Schock, etc.), who had a former NY police forensics artist compare a known lifesized statue of Khephren to the face on the Sphinx, the faces are NOT identical. If we assume that the Egyptian sculptors were capable of faithfully representing a specific person's features in statuary (a fair assumption), then it can be shown--as the forensics artist did-- that IF the lifesized statue is true to Khephren's actual features,
then the Sphinx's face is NOT that of Khephren... no matter how much
the orthodox Egyptology establishment insists it is.
>
> Similarly, there are those who speculate that the various paintings, mosaics, frescoes (etc.) portraying the face of Jesus were all based on the blurry image that somehow (miraculously?) ended up on the famous Shroud of Turin. Even though it's been carbon-dated to the 14th century (or so), the Shroud is still thought by "true-believers" to be the actual burial cloth of Jesus, into which the power of God etched the very likeness of His Son... Hmmm... maybe, maybe not. An interesting topic.
>
> So what does this have to do with the Lawgiver?
>
> Compare the face of the Lawgiver as represented on the Statue shown in both PLANET and BENEATH with the face of the Lawgiver character portrayed by John Huston in BATTLE. Perhaps James (or somebody else who has the ability) could post a side-by-side set of frame-grab pictures, so that we all can look for similarities or dissimilarities.
>
> Does the Statue of the Lawgiver look like the John Huston-in-makeup
character? I don't think so. There was an argument some time back
regarding whether or not the BATTLE prologue/epilogue "Lawgiver"
character was supposed to be the SAME Lawgiver (albeit in an altered
Future) from PLANET. I argued against it for chronological reasons,
primarily: the PLANET Lawgiver wrote the Sacred Scrolls "1200 years"
before the events of PLANET (i.e. either 3955 or 3978 minus 1200, or
2755-to-2778 A.D.), whereas the BATTLE frame sequence takes place in
2670 A.D., about a century before. Others argued that the 3955/3978
dates for PLANET are merely mistakes of the spaceship's approximate
depiction of "EARTH-TIME" ("give or take a decade" was quoted from
Taylor, to give the impression that the clocks weren't so perfectly
accurate as I would like to think).
>
> One could argue that the Lawgiver's likeness might never have been
depicted in stone before his death, and--since photography didn't get
invented until sometime after 3085 (in "The Legacy" Zaius wonders how
the humans were able to photograph Virdon and his wife & son) and
before the events of PLANET (when the hunting gorillas pose with their
catch: "Smile!")--there was no accurate depiction of his face for the
sculptor to go by. Thus, the dissimilarity between the actual facial
features of the Lawgiver and the features depicted by the unknown
sculptor could merely be "artistic license"--a sort of "idealized"
visual representation of "the greatest ape of all".
>
> Regarding the iconographic imagery of Christ, I've heard it argued
that the popular image of his face cannot be correct due to the
incident said to have taken place in the gospels: when Judas led the
Romans to the Garden of Gethsemane in order to betray Jesus, his
method of pointing out Jesus (to differentiate him from his disciples)
was to give him "the Judas kiss". After all, Jesus and his followers
were Jews, and they must have dressed similarly; if Jesus had worn any
sort of regalia, it would have made him stand out in the crowd, and
the Roman soldiers wouldn't have needed Judas to point him out. The
iconographic image of Christ's face does not depict a Jew (which both
genealogies--despite their differences--agree he was, since he was a
descendant, allegedly, of King David of the tribe of Judah), which
implies that the popular image of Jesus is based on a European
esthetic: blond hair, blue eyes, aquiline nose, etc.
>
> So, one could argue that the after-the-fact sculpted depictions of the Lawgiver were idealized representations which the sculptor--if no one else--knew was probably not accurate. However, if the Lawgiver had
been portrayed either in painting or in sculpture BEFORE his death,
then chances are the artist would use his/her skills to the utmost and
depict the Lawgiver as he truly appeared.
>
> Maybe "all apes look the same to most humans" (to twist Zira's remark to Taylor around), but the Statue of the Lawgiver doesn't look like the BATTLE Lawgiver. At least not to me.
>
> Whether you, James, agree with me or not on this one, it would be nice if you could use your talents to post that side-by-side set of
pictures from PLANET (or BENEATH) and BATTLE, just so we can all judge
for ourselves.
>
> Patrick Michael Tilton
> EARTH-TIME 8-13-2002
>
> "He BLEEDS! The Lawgiver BLEEDS!"

It's reasonable to assume that humans still had a level of intelligence
at least equal to the apes at the time of the Lawgiver's death. I think
that a human (voluntarily or involuntarily, depending on the timeline)
sculpted the first Lawgiver statue not long after this occurred. I
believe this because humans have always had something vital that apes
lack; the ability to create meaningful art, whether it's abstract or
representational. If the sculptor were human, it would also explain why
the statue is so stylized.

The apes could mechanically copy the statue at a later time, even change
the scale, but they couldn't change the existing design or create a new
one.

Look at the different objects in Planet and Beneath that are obviously
decorative. Except for the Lawgiver statues, they are all emotionally
neutral arrangements of freeform organic shapes in seemingly random
neutral colors. Designs, like the glyphs, can have meanings assigned to
them after the fact, but the meaning doesn't affect the creation of the
design. "Hieroglyph" literally means "picture writing." The ape symbols
were dubbed "glyphs" by the studio to emphasize that they were meant to
be non-representational.

Consider this: The apes revere the Lawgiver. There is a 1200 year old
statue of him that logically shouldn't exist, because it's impossible
for an ape to create one. The apes can't explain it any other way than
that the Lawgiver somehow BECAME the statue (the gorillas in Beneath
don't say, "The Lawgiver STATUE bleeds." To them, the statue IS the
Lawgiver). If Zaius knows about the statue of Liberty, he would also
suspect that their most holy relic is a human creation.
That would explain his eagerness to exterminate the human species.

ABMAC

On Tuesday, August 13, 2002, at 11:53 PM, patrickmichaeltilton wrote:

> So what does this have to do with the Lawgiver?
>
> Compare the face of the Lawgiver as represented on the Statue shown in
> both PLANET and BENEATH with the face of the Lawgiver character
> portrayed by John Huston in BATTLE. Perhaps James (or somebody else
> who has the ability) could post a side-by-side set of frame-grab
> pictures, so that we all can look for similarities or dissimilarities.
>
> Does the Statue of the Lawgiver look like the John Huston-in-makeup
> character? I don't think so. There was an argument some time back
> regarding whether or not the BATTLE prologue/epilogue "Lawgiver"
> character was supposed to be the SAME Lawgiver (albeit in an altered
> Future) from PLANET. I argued against it for chronological reasons,
> primarily: the PLANET Lawgiver wrote the Sacred Scrolls "1200 years"
> before the events of PLANET (i.e. either 3955 or 3978 minus 1200, or
> 2755-to-2778 A.D.), whereas the BATTLE frame sequence takes place in
> 2670 A.D., about a century before. Others argued that the 3955/3978
> dates for PLANET are merely mistakes of the spaceship's approximate
> depiction of "EARTH-TIME" ("give or take a decade" was quoted from
> Taylor, to give the impression that the clocks weren't so perfectly
> accurate as I would like to think).
>
> One could argue that the Lawgiver's likeness might never have been
> depicted in stone before his death, and--since photography didn't get
> invented until sometime after 3085 (in "The Legacy" Zaius wonders how
> the humans were able to photograph Virdon and his wife & son) and
> before the events of PLANET (when the hunting gorillas pose with their
> catch: "Smile!")--there was no accurate depiction of his face for the
> sculptor to go by. Thus, the dissimilarity between the actual facial
> features of the Lawgiver and the features depicted by the unknown
> sculptor could merely be "artistic license"--a sort of "idealized"
> visual representation of "the greatest ape of all".
>
> Regarding the iconographic imagery of Christ, I've heard it argued
> that the popular image of his face cannot be correct due to the
> incident said to have taken place in the gospels: when Judas led the
> Romans to the Garden of Gethsemane in order to betray Jesus, his
> method of pointing out Jesus (to differentiate him from his disciples)
> was to give him "the Judas kiss". After all, Jesus and his followers
> were Jews, and they must have dressed similarly; if Jesus had worn any
> sort of regalia, it would have made him stand out in the crowd, and
> the Roman soldiers wouldn't have needed Judas to point him out. The
> iconographic image of Christ's face does not depict a Jew (which both
> genealogies--despite their differences--agree he was, since he was a
> descendant, allegedly, of King David of the tribe of Judah), which
> implies that the popular image of Jesus is based on a European
> esthetic: blond hair, blue eyes, aquiline nose, etc.
>
> So, one could argue that the after-the-fact sculpted depictions of the
> Lawgiver were idealized representations which the sculptor--if no one
> else--knew was probably not accurate. However, if the Lawgiver had
> been portrayed either in painting or in sculpture BEFORE his death,
> then chances are the artist would use his/her skills to the utmost and
> depict the Lawgiver as he truly appeared.
>
> Maybe "all apes look the same to most humans" (to twist Zira's remark
> to Taylor around), but the Statue of the Lawgiver doesn't look like
> the BATTLE Lawgiver. At least not to me.
>
> Whether you, James, agree with me or not on this one, it would be nice
> if you could use your talents to post that side-by-side set of
> pictures from PLANET (or BENEATH) and BATTLE, just so we can all judge
> for ourselves.
>
> Patrick Michael Tilton
> EARTH-TIME 8-13-2002
>
> "He BLEEDS! The Lawgiver BLEEDS!"

Maybe when he saw the job the human artist did on his statue it
pissed off the Lawgiver turned him in a human hater.

--- In pota@y..., "Anthony B. McElveen" <abmac@i...> wrote:
> It's reasonable to assume that humans still had a level of
intelligence
> at least equal to the apes at the time of the Lawgiver's death. I
think
> that a human (voluntarily or involuntarily, depending on the
timeline)
> sculpted the first Lawgiver statue not long after this occurred. I
> believe this because humans have always had something vital that
apes
> lack; the ability to create meaningful art, whether it's abstract
or
> representational. If the sculptor were human, it would also
explain why
> the statue is so stylized.
>
> The apes could mechanically copy the statue at a later time, even
change
> the scale, but they couldn't change the existing design or create
a new
> one.
>
> Look at the different objects in Planet and Beneath that are
obviously
> decorative. Except for the Lawgiver statues, they are all
emotionally
> neutral arrangements of freeform organic shapes in seemingly
random
> neutral colors. Designs, like the glyphs, can have meanings
assigned to
> them after the fact, but the meaning doesn't affect the creation
of the
> design. "Hieroglyph" literally means "picture writing." The ape
symbols
> were dubbed "glyphs" by the studio to emphasize that they were
meant to
> be non-representational.
>
> Consider this: The apes revere the Lawgiver. There is a 1200 year
old
> statue of him that logically shouldn't exist, because it's
impossible
> for an ape to create one. The apes can't explain it any other way
than
> that the Lawgiver somehow BECAME the statue (the gorillas in
Beneath
> don't say, "The Lawgiver STATUE bleeds." To them, the statue IS
the
> Lawgiver). If Zaius knows about the statue of Liberty, he would
also
> suspect that their most holy relic is a human creation.
> That would explain his eagerness to exterminate the human species.
>
> ABMAC
>
> On Tuesday, August 13, 2002, at 11:53 PM, patrickmichaeltilton
wrote:
>
> > So what does this have to do with the Lawgiver?
> >
> > Compare the face of the Lawgiver as represented on the Statue
shown in
> > both PLANET and BENEATH with the face of the Lawgiver character
> > portrayed by John Huston in BATTLE. Perhaps James (or somebody
else
> > who has the ability) could post a side-by-side set of frame-grab
> > pictures, so that we all can look for similarities or
dissimilarities.
> >
> > Does the Statue of the Lawgiver look like the John Huston-in-
makeup
> > character? I don't think so. There was an argument some time back
> > regarding whether or not the BATTLE prologue/epilogue "Lawgiver"
> > character was supposed to be the SAME Lawgiver (albeit in an
altered
> > Future) from PLANET. I argued against it for chronological
reasons,
> > primarily: the PLANET Lawgiver wrote the Sacred Scrolls "1200
years"
> > before the events of PLANET (i.e. either 3955 or 3978 minus
1200, or
> > 2755-to-2778 A.D.), whereas the BATTLE frame sequence takes
place in
> > 2670 A.D., about a century before. Others argued that the
3955/3978
> > dates for PLANET are merely mistakes of the spaceship's
approximate
> > depiction of "EARTH-TIME" ("give or take a decade" was quoted
from
> > Taylor, to give the impression that the clocks weren't so
perfectly
> > accurate as I would like to think).
> >
> > One could argue that the Lawgiver's likeness might never have
been
> > depicted in stone before his death, and--since photography
didn't get
> > invented until sometime after 3085 (in "The Legacy" Zaius
wonders how
> > the humans were able to photograph Virdon and his wife & son) and
> > before the events of PLANET (when the hunting gorillas pose with
their
> > catch: "Smile!")--there was no accurate depiction of his face
for the
> > sculptor to go by. Thus, the dissimilarity between the actual
facial
> > features of the Lawgiver and the features depicted by the unknown
> > sculptor could merely be "artistic license"--a sort
of "idealized"
> > visual representation of "the greatest ape of all".
> >
> > Regarding the iconographic imagery of Christ, I've heard it
argued
> > that the popular image of his face cannot be correct due to the
> > incident said to have taken place in the gospels: when Judas led
the
> > Romans to the Garden of Gethsemane in order to betray Jesus, his
> > method of pointing out Jesus (to differentiate him from his
disciples)
> > was to give him "the Judas kiss". After all, Jesus and his
followers
> > were Jews, and they must have dressed similarly; if Jesus had
worn any
> > sort of regalia, it would have made him stand out in the crowd,
and
> > the Roman soldiers wouldn't have needed Judas to point him out.
The
> > iconographic image of Christ's face does not depict a Jew (which
both
> > genealogies--despite their differences--agree he was, since he
was a
> > descendant, allegedly, of King David of the tribe of Judah),
which
> > implies that the popular image of Jesus is based on a European
> > esthetic: blond hair, blue eyes, aquiline nose, etc.
> >
> > So, one could argue that the after-the-fact sculpted depictions
of the
> > Lawgiver were idealized representations which the sculptor--if
no one
> > else--knew was probably not accurate. However, if the Lawgiver
had
> > been portrayed either in painting or in sculpture BEFORE his
death,
> > then chances are the artist would use his/her skills to the
utmost and
> > depict the Lawgiver as he truly appeared.
> >
> > Maybe "all apes look the same to most humans" (to twist Zira's
remark
> > to Taylor around), but the Statue of the Lawgiver doesn't look
like
> > the BATTLE Lawgiver. At least not to me.
> >
> > Whether you, James, agree with me or not on this one, it would
be nice
> > if you could use your talents to post that side-by-side set of
> > pictures from PLANET (or BENEATH) and BATTLE, just so we can all
judge
> > for ourselves.
> >
> > Patrick Michael Tilton
> > EARTH-TIME 8-13-2002
> >
> > "He BLEEDS! The Lawgiver BLEEDS!"

.htmlIn a message dated 8/13/02 11:28:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:

Long term health risks: from the chemicals and stuff. I guess you'd have to be there to understand.

Actually, the show is "The West Wing" (not!). - - Jeff



I've often wished I'd had the courage to go out to California back when I was younger and somehow get into the makeup business, but I guess maybe it's better I didn't!

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 8/14/02 12:13:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

*** Maltin deserved what the gremlins did to him (in GREMLINS 2: THE
NEW BATCH), after his oh-so-wrong critique of the first GREMLINS
flick. How could he not like GREMLINS? Was it too scary for the
kiddies he probably thought it was made for? At least he had enough of
a sense of humor to do the cameo, though...

Patrick

Well, at least it had a Goldsmith score.<.html

Attachments :

.htmlSo, one could argue that the after-the-fact sculpted depictions of the
Lawgiver were idealized representations which the sculptor--if no one
else--knew was probably not accurate. However, if the Lawgiver had
been portrayed either in painting or in sculpture BEFORE his death,
then chances are the artist would use his/her skills to the utmost and
depict the Lawgiver as he truly appeared.

Maybe "all apes look the same to most humans" (to twist Zira's remark
to Taylor around), but the Statue of the Lawgiver doesn't look like
the BATTLE Lawgiver. At least not to me.

Whether you, James, agree with me or not on this one, it would be nice
if you could use your talents to post that side-by-side set of
pictures from PLANET (or BENEATH) and BATTLE, just so we can all judge
for ourselves.

Patrick Michael Tilton
EARTH-TIME 8-13-2002

One could "argue" that if one where as silly an ass as you are, Patrick! (And I say that in a friendly way.)  But in BATTLE isn't rather obvious that they didn't have the budget to do a proper makeup for Huston from the way his mouth hangs open and never closes?  (And what's with the oversized wigs on the orangs?) I'll also bet that Huston wasn't about to submit to having a lifemask of himself done, and so it looks to me as if he's probably wearing James Whitmore's nose appliance and maybe Woodrow Parfrey's chin!

Stop being such a silly ass, Patrick, and taking these movies so literally.  Haven't you embarrassed yourself enough yet? :)

-- Rory Tilton Over from reading too many of Patty's Posts!

                                  
                                   "I swear if I weren't dead
                                   already, you'd bloody well
                                   do me in, you verbose twit!"

. <.html

.htmlIn a message dated 8/14/02 1:00:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:

How about this for a chronology? The Lawgiver statue came first. The
original POTA came out in 1968, starring the statue. In 1973 they filmed
"Battle". They lucked into having the famed personage of John Huston to play
the Lawgiver, and they went for it. They did not try to match the actor to
the likeness of the statue. There are also those, like myself, who don't
believe in a circular chronology and therefore feel the POTA and "Battle"
Lawgiver are not one and the same.- - Jeff

I wonder what Patrick would say if Sam Jaffe had played the part as they originally wanted?  Then again who gives a shit?!!

-- Rory Tilton Over laughing!<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 8/14/02 1:32:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

*** How difficult would it have been for the make-up men (Chambers, or
Streipeke, or Fred Blau, take your pick--whichever one did Huston's
ape-appliances) to cook up a make-up job that looked like the Lawgiver
statue? We're not talking about "matching the actor to the likeness of
the statue"--the actor is a human being! It's the make-up he's wearing
that matters! You could get almost anybody to look like any ape
character, just by sculpting the same ape face onto the plaster cast
of the different actor's face; as long as the ape appliances are
sculpted right you can have different actors portraying the same ape
(as probably happened with the stunt doubles for Cornelius, Zira,
Zaius, etc.). The make-up artists COULD have made John Huston up to
look like the spittin' image of that statue... but they didn't. I'm
just wondering why.

Patrick, Arthur P. Jacobs would have just loved you as one of his ASSistants!<.html

.htmlMaybe "all apes look the same to most humans" (to twist Zira's remark
to Taylor around), but the Statue of the Lawgiver doesn't look like
the BATTLE Lawgiver. At least not to me.

Perhaps the statue is of the young Lawgiver.
Time can beat the shit out of people.
<.html

Attachments :

Patrick is right. They don't look a bit alike;-)

Attachments :

.html
                            Patrick is right. They don't look a bit alike;-)

                    

You guys may want to check out the Topps original PLANET OF THE APES card number 33 to see who may have been the model for the Lawgiver statue. 

Go 'head, check it out.

-- Rory <.html

Attachments :

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 7:40 AM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] [Re] The Lawgiver Statue

So, one could argue that the after-the-fact sculpted depictions of the
Lawgiver were idealized representations which the sculptor--if no one
else--knew was probably not accurate. However, if the Lawgiver had
been portrayed either in painting or in sculpture BEFORE his death,
then chances are the artist would use his/her skills to the utmost and
depict the Lawgiver as he truly appeared.

Maybe "all apes look the same to most humans" (to twist Zira's remark
to Taylor around), but the Statue of the Lawgiver doesn't look like
the BATTLE Lawgiver. At least not to me.

Whether you, James, agree with me or not on this one, it would be nice
if you could use your talents to post that side-by-side set of
pictures from PLANET (or BENEATH) and BATTLE, just so we can all judge
for ourselves.

Patrick Michael Tilton
EARTH-TIME 8-13-2002

One could "argue" that if one where as silly an ass as you are, Patrick! (And I say that in a friendly way.)  But in BATTLE isn't rather obvious that they didn't have the budget to do a proper makeup for Huston from the way his mouth hangs open and never closes?  (And what's with the oversized wigs on the orangs?) I'll also bet that Huston wasn't about to submit to having a lifemask of himself done, and so it looks to me as if he's probably wearing James Whitmore's nose appliance and maybe Woodrow Parfrey's chin!

Stop being such a silly ass, Patrick, and taking these movies so literally.  Haven't you embarrassed yourself enough yet? :)

-- Rory Tilton Over from reading too many of Patty's Posts!

                                  
                                   "I swear if I weren't dead
                                   already, you'd bloody well
                                   do me in, you verbose twit!"

.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

Attachments :

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 7:40 AM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] [Re] The Lawgiver Statue

So, one could argue that the after-the-fact sculpted depictions of the
Lawgiver were idealized representations which the sculptor--if no one
else--knew was probably not accurate. However, if the Lawgiver had
been portrayed either in painting or in sculpture BEFORE his death,
then chances are the artist would use his/her skills to the utmost and
depict the Lawgiver as he truly appeared.

Maybe "all apes look the same to most humans" (to twist Zira's remark
to Taylor around), but the Statue of the Lawgiver doesn't look like
the BATTLE Lawgiver. At least not to me.

Whether you, James, agree with me or not on this one, it would be nice
if you could use your talents to post that side-by-side set of
pictures from PLANET (or BENEATH) and BATTLE, just so we can all judge
for ourselves.

Patrick Michael Tilton
EARTH-TIME 8-13-2002

One could "argue" that if one where as silly an ass as you are, Patrick! (And I say that in a friendly way.)  But in BATTLE isn't rather obvious that they didn't have the budget to do a proper makeup for Huston from the way his mouth hangs open and never closes?  (And what's with the oversized wigs on the orangs?) I'll also bet that Huston wasn't about to submit to having a lifemask of himself done, and so it looks to me as if he's probably wearing James Whitmore's nose appliance and maybe Woodrow Parfrey's chin!

Stop being such a silly ass, Patrick, and taking these movies so literally.  Haven't you embarrassed yourself enough yet? :)

-- Rory Tilton Over from reading too many of Patty's Posts!

                                  
                                   "I swear if I weren't dead
                                   already, you'd bloody well
                                   do me in, you verbose twit!"

.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

Attachments :

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 5:14 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: The Lawgiver Statue

                            Patrick is right. They don't look a bit alike;-)

                    

You guys may want to check out the Topps original PLANET OF THE APES card number 33 to see who may have been the model for the Lawgiver statue. 

Go 'head, check it out.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

Attachments :

.html  Patrick is right. They don't look a bit alike;-)

Seperated at birth . . .



<.html

Attachments :

.htmlI've found some images on the web from the new DVD of the sci-fi classic "THEM!"    As I've said before, if you're a POTA fan you should check it out to see the President of the Assembly battle those giant ants.

                                  

                                  
                                              James Whitmore
                                                    and friend
                                   <.html

Attachments :

.htmlAnyone here have this Gold Key comic?  I did years ago but I lost it as a kid.
--Rory

Click here: eBay item 2130480637 (Ends Aug-18-02 19:08:37 PDT ) - Beneath the Planet of the Apes, RARE, fine

                    

<.html

I love it when they list something as complete, but missing parts.

I have a couple of copies with the posters and one copy without.

ABMAC

On Thursday, August 15, 2002, at 10:55 AM, Haristas@... wrote:

> Anyone here have this Gold Key comic? I did years ago but I lost it as
> a kid.
> --Rory
>
> Click here: eBay item 2130480637 (Ends Aug-18-02 19:08:37 PDT ) -
> Beneath the Planet of the Apes, RARE, fine

Attachments :

.htmlHere's that 1973 or '74 issue of Castle of Frankenstein with the article in it about all five of the apes films.  I saved the article when I was a kid, but I recall putting the cover up on the wall.

-- Rory
Click here: http://www.picturelist.com/Images/r9dart501/castle23.jpg

                    <.html

Attachments :

.htmlThis is a nice little poster from BENEATH -- if you can get it.  Right now the bidding is pretty low.

-- Rory
Click here: eBay item 1555339923 (Ends Aug-17-02 16:12:45 PDT ) - BENEATH THE PLANET OF THE APES Window Card

           <.html

Giant Ants?? Sounds alot like those Ortho Weed Be Gone commercials
he did in the 80s.

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> I've found some images on the web from the new DVD of the sci-fi
classic
> "THEM!" As I've said before, if you're a POTA fan you should
check it out
> to see the President of the Assembly battle those giant ants.
>
> [Unable to display image]
>
> [Unable to display image]
> James Whitmore
> and friend
> [Unable to display image]

That's a hell of a cover!
Don't you wish they's shoot the movie to look like that?
If movies looked like their trailers and posters I'd have few complaints.

Attachments :

.htmlFor those of you that may not have ever seen the Tops cards for PLANET here's card 33, the only one that's not from the movie.  I think this is a costume and makeup test with an Asian actor, but he also looks very much as if he might have been the model for the Lawgiver statue.  The statue does have Asian eyes.

                                     
-- Rory <.html

He looks like a young John Huston.

Attachments :

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 5:00 AM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] (OT) THEM!

I've found some images on the web from the new DVD of the sci-fi classic "THEM!"    As I've said before, if you're a POTA fan you should check it out to see the President of the Assembly battle those giant ants.

                                  

                                  
                                              James Whitmore
                                                    and friend
                                  

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

Attachments :

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 8:55 AM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Beneath comic

Anyone here have this Gold Key comic?  I did years ago but I lost it as a kid.
--Rory

Click here: eBay item 2130480637 (Ends Aug-18-02 19:08:37 PDT ) - Beneath the Planet of the Apes, RARE, fine

                    



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

Attachments :

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 9:14 AM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] BENEATH window card

This is a nice little poster from BENEATH -- if you can get it.  Right now the bidding is pretty low.

-- Rory
Click here: eBay item 1555339923 (Ends Aug-17-02 16:12:45 PDT ) - BENEATH THE PLANET OF THE APES Window Card

          

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

Attachments :

.htmlIn a message dated 8/15/02 11:18:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:

  He musta used too much Miracle Grow on them. Har! Har! Etc.                         - - - Jeff

Yeah, that's a riot.  I just bought the THEM! DVD today (it's just $15) and watching the movie I spotted an POTA connection -- Booth Colman has a bit part as a reporter.

----- Original Message -----
From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 5:00 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] (OT) THEM!


I've found some images on the web from the new DVD of the sci-fi classic "THEM!"    As I've said before, if you're a POTA fan you should check it out to see the President of the Assembly battle those giant ants.

                                  

                                  
                                              James Whitmore
                                                    and friend
                                  





<.html

Attachments :

.htmlIn a message dated 8/15/02 11:18:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:

  I have it with the poster attached. - - - Jeff

      What's the poster of?

----- Original Message -----
From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 8:55 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Beneath comic


Anyone here have this Gold Key comic?  I did years ago but I lost it as a kid.
--Rory

Click here: eBay item 2130480637 (Ends Aug-18-02 19:08:37 PDT ) - Beneath the Planet of the Apes, RARE, fine

                    






<.html

Attachments :

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 8:43 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] (OT) THEM!

In a message dated 8/15/02 11:18:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:

  He musta used too much Miracle Grow on them. Har! Har! Etc.                         - - - Jeff

Yeah, that's a riot.  I just bought the THEM! DVD today (it's just $15) and watching the movie I spotted an POTA connection -- Booth Colman has a bit part as a reporter.

----- Original Message -----
From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 5:00 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] (OT) THEM!


I've found some images on the web from the new DVD of the sci-fi classic "THEM!"    As I've said before, if you're a POTA fan you should check it out to see the President of the Assembly battle those giant ants.

                                  

                                  
                                              James Whitmore
                                                    and friend
                                  

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .
<.html

Attachments :

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 8:44 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Beneath comic

In a message dated 8/15/02 11:18:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:

  I have it with the poster attached. - - - Jeff

      What's the poster of?

----- Original Message -----
From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 8:55 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Beneath comic


Anyone here have this Gold Key comic?  I did years ago but I lost it as a kid.
--Rory

Click here: eBay item 2130480637 (Ends Aug-18-02 19:08:37 PDT ) - Beneath the Planet of the Apes, RARE, fine

                    

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .
<.html

Attachments :

.htmlIn a message dated 8/15/02 11:21:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:

Fun fact: The only "Apes" poster Natalie Trundy owns is the "Beneath" one that has the army at the bottom. I guess the standard one. Whatever ones they used to have are at the Jacobs archives. - - - Jeff

   Which of course leads me to ask, Why is that the only one
   she has?

----- Original Message -----
From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 9:14 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] BENEATH window card


This is a nice little poster from BENEATH -- if you can get it.  Right now the bidding is pretty low.

-- Rory
Click here: eBay item 1555339923 (Ends Aug-17-02 16:12:45 PDT ) - BENEATH THE PLANET OF THE APES Window Card

          




<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 8/15/02 11:46:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:

Oh, yeah. Booth mentioned that. How big is his part? - - - Jeff

A couple of lines.<.html

Attachments :

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 8:47 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] BENEATH window card

In a message dated 8/15/02 11:21:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:

Fun fact: The only "Apes" poster Natalie Trundy owns is the "Beneath" one that has the army at the bottom. I guess the standard one. Whatever ones they used to have are at the Jacobs archives. - - - Jeff

   Which of course leads me to ask, Why is that the only one
   she has?

----- Original Message -----
From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 9:14 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] BENEATH window card


This is a nice little poster from BENEATH -- if you can get it.  Right now the bidding is pretty low.

-- Rory
Click here: eBay item 1555339923 (Ends Aug-17-02 16:12:45 PDT ) - BENEATH THE PLANET OF THE APES Window Card

          

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .
<.html

Attachments :

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: veetus@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 1:50 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] (OT) THEM!

Oh, yeah. Booth mentioned that. How big is his part? - - - Jeff

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 8:43 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] (OT) THEM!

In a message dated 8/15/02 11:18:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:

  He musta used too much Miracle Grow on them. Har! Har! Etc.                         - - - Jeff

Yeah, that's a riot.  I just bought the THEM! DVD today (it's just $15) and watching the movie I spotted an POTA connection -- Booth Colman has a bit part as a reporter.

----- Original Message -----
From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 5:00 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] (OT) THEM!


I've found some images on the web from the new DVD of the sci-fi classic "THEM!"    As I've said before, if you're a POTA fan you should check it out to see the President of the Assembly battle those giant ants.

                                  

                                  
                                              James Whitmore
                                                    and friend
                                  

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .
<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 8/16/02 12:03:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ktaylor@... writes:

Oh, yeah. Booth mentioned that. How big is his part? - - - Jeff

TThat's a rather personal question.

Jeff likes asking those kinds of questions.

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 9:11 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] (OT) THEM!

In a message dated 8/16/02 12:03:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ktaylor@... writes:

Oh, yeah. Booth mentioned that. How big is his part? - - - Jeff

TThat's a rather personal question.

Jeff likes asking those kinds of questions.



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

Fun fact: The only "Apes" poster Natalie Trundy owns is the "Beneath" one that has the army at the bottom.

I think that's the one I have.  It's sideways instead of longways.  But the army is actually kinda in the middle.

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 8/15/2002 10:45:51 PM Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

 What's the poster of?

Protesting chimps....<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 8/15/2002 10:44:26 PM Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

Yeah, that's a riot.  I just bought the THEM! DVD today (it's just $15) and watching the movie I spotted an POTA connection -- Booth Colman has a bit part as a reporter.

How old is Booth anyway? Jeff, do you know?
<.html

What is the art like in this? Better than the Marvel stuff? Anyone care to scan a sample?

Matt

.htmlIn a message dated 8/16/02 3:29:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mlccougar@... writes:

In a message dated 8/15/2002 10:44:26 PM Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

Yeah, that's a riot.  I just bought the THEM! DVD today (it's just $15) and watching the movie I spotted an POTA connection -- Booth Colman has a bit part as a reporter.

How old is Booth anyway? Jeff, do you know?



Look him up at IMDb.com -- you lazy!<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 8/16/02 9:49:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time, MTotsky@... writes:

What is the art like in this? Better than the Marvel stuff? Anyone care to scan a sample?

Matt

I don't remember it being all that great.  Michael Whitty has offered to send me an extra copy he has (He says hello to everyone.), but I'm sure someone else will scan a page before I get it.

-- Rory<.html

Attachments :

.htmlIn a message dated 8/16/02 2:56:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

Fun fact: The only "Apes" poster Natalie Trundy owns is the "Beneath" one that has the army at the bottom.

I think that's the one I have.  It's sideways instead of longways.  But the army is actually kinda in the middle.

Is it one of these beneath, Lord T (aka Big Tony)?


                                                
<.html

Attachments :

.htmlAnybody got some of these?  If so, buddy can you spare a buck?

And does anyone dare spend it?


                 
                        Should have Dr. Zaius' picture on it. <.html

Attachments :

.htmlI guess Patrick was right after all and there were some earlier versions of the Lawgiver statue that reflected the artistic skill of the apes at the time.  Let's be thankful that the ape artists improved with time.    Check out these early Lawgivers below.

-- Rory
    Earth Time: Here and Now










                            <.html

.htmlCheck out this article about Fox and then wonder how these bastards can be so skimpy with extras on APES.  They're rolling in it!


TV SHOWS ON DVD IS BRIGHT SPOT AT FOX Chernin says segment has become a $100 million a year business for studio.
By Paul Sweeting  8/14/2002

AUG. 14 | Growing sales of TV shows on DVD helped gross revenue at Fox Entertainment grow 11% to $2.4 billion in the fourth quarter, the publicly traded subsidiary of News Corp. reported Wednesday.

"With sales of shows such as Buffy the Vampire Slayer, The Simpsons and even older shows like M*A*S*H and Mary Tyler Moore, DVD sales of our TV shows is a $100 million business and growing," Fox chairman Peter Chernin said during a conference call with analysts. That figure represents the studio's domestic net revenue in the segment in the past year.

Fox will release the first full season of its hit show 24 on DVD on Sept. 17.

For the company as a whole, net profit for the quarter ended June 20 fell 77% to $40 million. The current period included a $26 million charge for debt retirement, while the prior year's quarter included proceeds from the sale of Fox's interest in the Golf Channel.

Excluding those items, adjusted net profit for the current quarter was $66 million versus a net loss of $18 million.

EBITDA (earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization) was $318 million, an increase of 40%.

The company's Filmed Entertainment division, which includes 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment, the film studio and TV networks, kicked in $92 million in EBITDA, a gain of 18%, on the strength of the theatrical release of Ice Age and the video release of Behind Enemy Lines. 

<.html

If anyone hasn't seen it, I highly recommend checking out "24." I was lucky to get in on that show from the first episode and was addicted to it for the whole season. I can't wait until season 2. It's one of the best things Fox has done in a long time.

Off-Topic Matt

.htmlIn a message dated 8/16/2002 8:49:03 AM Central Standard Time, MTotsky@... writes:

What is the art like in this? Better than the Marvel stuff? Anyone care to scan a sample?

Matt

It is great art, out does the Marvel stuff anyday... The characters actually look like they're supposed to...<.html

The FX channel will be doing a 24 marathon on Labor Day starting a
midnight.

--- In pota@y..., MTotsky@a... wrote:
> If anyone hasn't seen it, I highly recommend checking out "24." I
was lucky to get in on that show from the first episode and was
addicted to it for the whole season. I can't wait until season 2.
It's one of the best things Fox has done in a long time.
>
> Off-Topic Matt

Attachments :

.htmlHere are even earlier versions.<.html

.htmlIs it one of these beneath, Lord T (aka Big Tony)?

Uhhh...no.
It looks likr that Beneath one, but as I said it's not vertical.  It's a horizontal poster, but the graphics are the same.
<.html

Attachments :

.htmlIn a message dated 8/16/02 5:50:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

It looks like that Beneath one, but as I said it's not vertical.  It's a horizontal poster, but the graphics are the same.

I think that would be the 22"X28" half-sheet.  I couldn't find an image of it, but I found some others below.



           U.S.  Insert                           Something called a review poster
                             



     Shouldn't Taylor be behind Nova?!!!   What's she wearing?
                   <.html

.html

I think that would be the 22"X28" half-sheet.

It is indeed.<.html

All my others are reprose with the exception of my German Escape, but this is
an original.

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----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 11:55 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] BENEATH window card

Fun fact: The only "Apes" poster Natalie Trundy owns is the "Beneath" one that has the army at the bottom.

I think that's the one I have.  It's sideways instead of longways.  But the army is actually kinda in the middle.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: mlccougar@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 12:28 AM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Both Colman

In a message dated 8/15/2002 10:44:26 PM Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

Yeah, that's a riot.  I just bought the THEM! DVD today (it's just $15) and watching the movie I spotted an POTA connection -- Booth Colman has a bit part as a reporter.

How old is Booth anyway? Jeff, do you know?


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

Attachments :

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 8:47 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] BENEATH window card

In a message dated 8/16/02 2:56:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

Fun fact: The only "Apes" poster Natalie Trundy owns is the "Beneath" one that has the army at the bottom.

I think that's the one I have.  It's sideways instead of longways.  But the army is actually kinda in the middle.

Is it one of these beneath, Lord T (aka Big Tony)?


                                                


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

Attachments :

.htmlIn a message dated 8/16/02 10:42:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:

No, it's vertical. It's got Brent and Nova walking through the tunnel, and the army on the bottom. I think it's the standard one. We used it for an "Ape Has Killed Ape" concert. - - - Jeff

                         This one, the standard 1-sheet, right?
                         
     
        
<.html

.html

We used it for an "Ape Has Killed Ape" concert. - - - Jeff

Cool!  Have you heard of the band called Ape Management?<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 9:12 AM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Foxy Fox

Check out this article about Fox and then wonder how these bastards can be so skimpy with extras on APES.  They're rolling in it!


TV SHOWS ON DVD IS BRIGHT SPOT AT FOX Chernin says segment has become a $100 million a year business for studio.
By Paul Sweeting  8/14/2002

AUG. 14 | Growing sales of TV shows on DVD helped gross revenue at Fox Entertainment grow 11% to $2.4 billion in the fourth quarter, the publicly traded subsidiary of News Corp. reported Wednesday.

"With sales of shows such as Buffy the Vampire Slayer, The Simpsons and even older shows like M*A*S*H and Mary Tyler Moore, DVD sales of our TV shows is a $100 million business and growing," Fox chairman Peter Chernin said during a conference call with analysts. That figure represents the studio's domestic net revenue in the segment in the past year.

Fox will release the first full season of its hit show 24 on DVD on Sept. 17.

For the company as a whole, net profit for the quarter ended June 20 fell 77% to $40 million. The current period included a $26 million charge for debt retirement, while the prior year's quarter included proceeds from the sale of Fox's interest in the Golf Channel.

Excluding those items, adjusted net profit for the current quarter was $66 million versus a net loss of $18 million.

EBITDA (earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization) was $318 million, an increase of 40%.

The company's Filmed Entertainment division, which includes 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment, the film studio and TV networks, kicked in $92 million in EBITDA, a gain of 18%, on the strength of the theatrical release of Ice Age and the video release of Behind Enemy Lines. 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

Yeah, they're going to do a 24 hour marathon; the season was supposed to
take place during 24 hours. Nice idea for a marathon. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Foxy Fox (OT)


> The FX channel will be doing a 24 marathon on Labor Day starting a
> midnight.
>
> --- In pota@y..., MTotsky@a... wrote:
> > If anyone hasn't seen it, I highly recommend checking out "24." I
> was lucky to get in on that show from the first episode and was
> addicted to it for the whole season. I can't wait until season 2.
> It's one of the best things Fox has done in a long time.
> >
> > Off-Topic Matt
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>