> In a message dated 8/31/02 10:15:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
>
> In regards to Boulle's use of Betelgeuse as the star around which Soror revolves, yeah, I agree it's not a likely place to find any Earth-like planet. The palpitations I described earlier (which Boulle himself described) would wreak havoc on the biospheres of any planet within its "lifezone". Every star has a "lifezone" around it, where the temperature is neither too hot nor too cold, but when a supergiant like Betelgeuse undergoes its rhythmic palpitations the lifezone itself would palpitate accordingly, yet the elliptical orbits of any planets in the system would NOT be able to adjust to this phenomenon, since their orbital paths are around the center of gravity ("barycenter") of the star at the focus of the ellipse. So, I wouldn't say it's totally impossible to find a habitable planet orbiting Betelgeuse... but it's pretty damned unlikely. And I sure as hell wouldn't want to be around when that star ran out of hydrogen to burn: when it goes Supernova... YOWZAH! Of course, even here on Earth, some 300+ lightyears away, even WE will have a bad time of it if Betelgeuse explodes in our lifetime.
> >
> > Patrick

> Isn't it true, Patrick, that before a star becomes a red giant it is a star much like ours. That being a red giant is a sign of its age and it expands to the size of a red giant because it's nearly burned off one of its gases (I forget which)? Hence, Betelgeuse may have once had an earth-like planet circling it, but it ate it up when it expanded. This is, I also believe, going to be the fate of our world. First our star will shrink to a white dwarf, freezing the earth, then expand to a red giant, consuming our world. It will then go supernova. I read some place that Betelgeuse should go supernova sometime in the next ten thousand years, but I'm not sure what you mean, Patrick, that it would affect our world, other than giving us something wonderful to look at. I'd love to live to see it, but ten thousand years is an awful long time.
>
> -- Rory

> In a message dated 8/31/02 12:12:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
>
> > If the blastwave of a supernova-exploding Betelgeuse (which is somewhere between 300 and 650 or so lightyears away from us) were to hit us next week, the radiation would probably kill off every surface-dwelling animal on our planet. Even if it didn't kill you, if you were unfortunate enough to be looking at it, you'd most probably be blinded by it; supernovas routinely are so bright that during detonation they outshine the entire Galaxy. Betelgeuse is uncomfortably close to us, and nobody knows exactly when it'll go Supernova. It could be 10,000 years from now... or it could happen tomorrow.
> >

> I think you are wrong about this. There was at least one other star in our galaxy that went supernova within recorded history. I saw something on TV about it so long ago that I can't remember the details, but it didn't kill any life on this planet. On the other hand, maybe this star I'm recalling only went nova not supernova, however I think if there was a danger that life on earth would be destroyed when Betelgeuse goes supernova we all would have common knowledge of it. It would have been an entire episode of Cosmos or . . . . Nova!
>
> -- Rory

> --- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> > In a message dated 8/31/02 12:12:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> > patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
> >
> >
> > > If the blastwave of a supernova-exploding Betelgeuse (which is somewhere between 300 and 650 or so lightyears away from us) were to hit us next week, the radiation would probably kill off every surface-dwelling animal on our planet. Even if it didn't kill you, if you were unfortunate enough to be looking at it, you'd most probably be blinded by it; supernovas routinely are so bright that during detonation they outshine the entire Galaxy. Betelgeuse is uncomfortably close to us, and nobody knows exactly when it'll go Supernova. It could be 10,000 years from now... or it could happen tomorrow.
> > >
>
> > I think you are wrong about this. There was at least one other star in our galaxy that went supernova within recorded history. I saw something on TV about it so long ago that I can't remember the details, but it didn't kill any life on this planet. On the other hand, maybe this star I'm recalling only went nova not supernova, however I think if there was a danger that life on earth would be destroyed when Betelgeuse goes supernova we all would have common knowledge of it. It would have been an entire episode of Cosmos or . . . . Nova!
> >
> > -- Rory
>
> *** Yes, there have been other supernovas in our Galaxy during recorded history, but our Galaxy is a swirling circular pancake-shaped disc about 100,000 lightyears in diameter, and Betelgeuse is only about 300-to-650 lightyears away (or so; no two reference works seem to agree on this, which tends to piss me off now and then). A few hundred lightyears away is not far enough away for a near-supernova red giant star, in my book. The "other star in our galaxy" you're mentioning was probably THOUSANDS of lightyears away, perhaps even TENS of thousands. That extra distance makes all the difference. Think of the proximity to a supernova as being like the proximity to an earthquake's epicenter, or to a volcanic eruption. If you're too near either of those, you're as good as "Shake-N-Bake"-d to death. But if you're far enough away, you won't even know there WAS an earthquake or an eruption (although the weather might be somewhat different over the course of a year or so, after a really bad volcanic eruption on the other side of the planet, since the ash it blows into the atmosphere would have effects worldwide--just not necessarily LETHAL effects except for those poor bastards who happened to be too close to it).
>
> Incidentally, I read somewhere that the Vela Pulsar is a remnant of a supernova that was visible around 6000 years ago. I'm not sure how far away the Vela Pulsar is from Earth, but I'll go look it up on the Net, and see.
>
> Patrick

> In a message dated 8/31/02 10:30:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
>
> > *** I find it hard to believe that the Cameron/Soderbergh version of "SOLARIS" could be anywhere near as pretentiously, boringly BAD as the first filmed version. It's been said that only the terrible films should be remade, since the great flicks don't NEED remaking, so I'm not against a second film version of Stanislaw Lem's novel. But this new flick better not be just "better" than that horrid Russkie waste- of-time: it better be watchable, dammit! My hopes aren't up that high, though, since it's evident that Cameron LIKED that crappy Russian "epic"--the so-called "Russian 2001"! Ye gadz!
>
> Well, in November there's this SF movie coming out called THE CORE. It may be good, but more likely it'll make 1959's JOURNEY TO THE CENTER OF THE EARTH look like the 2001 of its day.
>
> Patrick, I was just wondering. . . . Are PLANET and 2001 your two most favorite SF movies, as they are mine, and if so, which do you think is better? I would have to say that 2001 is the better film in the sense that it is more intelligent, yet I think PLANET is more entertaining and is almost as clever, but in different ways. PLANET is of course my favorite (I saw it first in '68).
>
> -- Rory

>Hey, anybody else here have these when you were a kid.
>I had all of them, but I've lost 'em. Of course my
>PLANET wasn't signed by Chuck.

> Now here's a Poll question: How many of you were fans of KONG

> after you saw POTA? How many of you would get it on DVD?

> Thanks for scanning Michael. I may have to pick one of those up some

> Well now could be a good time - prices of POTA Collectibles have hit

> bottom.

> What do you folks think of the colors on this original PLANET poster

> a window card)? This is one of the ugliest, I think.

> Oops, I forgot one more flick to add to my personal "Best of" list.
>
> ZARDOZ (!)

----- Original Message -----
From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 7:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] "They bear out Hasslein's Hypothesis..."


> --- In pota@y..., thypentacle <thypentacle@y...> wrote:
> >
> > Just thought I'd jump in here and say that faster than light travel
would be impossible using conventional engines like those seen on the back
of the ship in POTA. Only way I see such travel working would be thru the
use of engines like those seen in Star Trek. They warp or bend space in such
a way that the increase in mass would not be a problem cause the ship is
actually not traveling faster than light, more like half the speed of light,
but the engines sort of squeeze the space in between point A and B to be
closer together so the travel speed seems to be of great speed. (1000-10000
times faster than light) I guess that's why they call them 'Warp' engines.
;o)
> > ThyPentacle ~Star Trek technobabble expert.
> >
> > Haristas@a... wrote:In a message dated 8/25/02 12:49:33 PM Eastern
Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
> >
> >
> > Thus, Landon's persistent doubts as to the truth of Hasslein's Theory of
Time in a vehicle travelling nearly the speed of light are unfounded, and
Taylor is well within his rights to declare the "hypothesis" to be "a fact".
> >
> > And you all (you too, Rory) can "buy it" and "sleep better" tonight.
> >
> > Patrick Michael Tilton
> > EARTH-TIME 8-25-2002
> >
> > All that just to get to this, Patrick. You are the King of Verbosity.
Anyway, you're forgetting one thing, Patrick -- the phsyical impossibility
of human beings traveling at near-light speed. I believe I'm correct in
stating that we couldn't hope to survive the increase in mass.
> >
> > Also, what do you think (briefly please) of Boulle using Betelgeuse in
his book? A highly unlikely place to find an earth-like planet don't you
think?
> >
> > -- Rory
>
> *** The relativistic increase in Mass is more of a perceived problem:
> as "seen" by the stay-at-homes on Earth, the astronauts in their
> spaceship "seem" to have a higher mass, but this is actually a
> function of their higher velocity, which increases their kinetic
> energy--and it is the higher energy factor which has to be accounted
> for. Remember, Mass and Energy are equivalent in Einstein's theory--
> just different forms of the same thing. It's not as if each molecule/
> atom/subatomic particle in the astronauts' bodies "clones" itself to
> "increase the Mass". That would be rather absurd.
> The third effect of relativistic velocity (aside from Time Dilation
> and Mass Increase) is "Length Contraction", which doesn't REALLY
> happen--it's just what APPEARS to happen from the perspective of the
> Earthbound observer. From the perspective of the astronauts on the
> accelerated ship, the Mass Increase and Length Contraction are not
> perceptible (i.e. they don't feel "more massive" or "skinnier" at
> their higher velocity: imagine an astronaut doing somersaults inside
> the ship--would he be alternately SKINNIER, then SHORTER, then
> SKINNIER, then SHORTER, etc.?)--yet the Time Dilation effect IS
> perceptible, since it directly relates the flow of time that they
> experience ("SHIP-TIME") with the rate of Time in the unaccelerated
> medium/"frame-of-reference" of the Universe in which they are
> travelling in and from which they started accelerating in ("EARTH-
> TIME").
> So, it isn't really impossible physically to travel at "nearly the
> speed of light" according to Einstein's theory of Relativity; only
> travelling AT or FASTER THAN lightspeed is impossible. Keep in mind,
> though, that in the POTA films we're not dealing with Einstein's
> theory--we're dealing with HASSLEIN's theory, which must be similar to
> Einstein's in some way (i.e. "Time in a vehicle travelling nearly the
> speed of light" etc.), yet must be different than it in some way,
> otherwise Taylor would have mentioned "according to Einstein's theory"
> instead of "Hasslein's theory". As ThyPentacle suggests, this
> "Hassleinian" variation of Relativity is most probably due to the ANSA
> propulsion system utilizing some sort of SpaceTime warping effect,
> which is still affected by Time Dilation effects. In prior postings,
> when I went into some detail describing "my scenario" (which James
> insists "nobody gives a rat's ass about"), I describe such a
> "Hassleinian hyperdrive" engine and its method of warping SpaceTime in
> such a way as to produce the ShipTime/EarthTime chronometer readings
> we've seen in the POTA saga. I won't repeat all that here, to spare
> you any further "verbosity".
>
> In regards to Boulle's use of Betelgeuse as the star around which
> Soror revolves, yeah, I agree it's not a likely place to find any
> Earth-like planet. The palpitations I described earlier (which Boulle
> himself described) would wreak havoc on the biospheres of any planet
> within its "lifezone". Every star has a "lifezone" around it, where
> the temperature is neither too hot nor too cold, but when a supergiant
> like Betelgeuse undergoes its rhythmic palpitations the lifezone
> itself would palpitate accordingly, yet the elliptical orbits of any
> planets in the system would NOT be able to adjust to this phenomenon,
> since their orbital paths are around the center of gravity
> ("barycenter") of the star at the focus of the ellipse.
> So, I wouldn't say it's totally impossible to find a habitable planet
> orbiting Betelgeuse... but it's pretty damned unlikely. And I sure as
> hell wouldn't want to be around when that star ran out of hydrogen to
> burn: when it goes Supernova... YOWZAH! Of course, even here on Earth,
> some 300+ lightyears away, even WE will have a bad time of it if
> Betelgeuse explodes in our lifetime.
>
> Patrick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 7:41 AM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] (OT) More DVD news


--- In pota@y..., MTotsky@a... wrote:
> Rory,
>
> Do you ever hear anything about when classic Looney Tunes are coming out =
on DVD? Or some of the Tex Avery MGM stuff? Where's a good place to find
thi=
s info?
>
> Off-Topic Matt

*** Especially those "forbidden" Looney Tunes "colored" classics, like
"So White and de Sebben Dwarves". Without a doubt, it was the funniest
damn cartoon ever made... but the NAACP has no sense of humor, and
Turner is afraid to let it be seen. But even Leonard Maltin agrees
that despite its "racy" take on Disney's film, it's probably the best
old Looney Tune ever made. Tex Avery's "Uncle Tom's Cabaña" ranks
right up there, too--if you saw Jim Carrey's "THE MASK", you'll see
where they got the idea for the nightclub scene...

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 8:13 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] "They bear out Hasslein's Hypothesis..."

In a message dated 8/31/02 10:15:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

In regards to Boulle's use of Betelgeuse as the star around which
Soror revolves, yeah, I agree it's not a likely place to find any
Earth-like planet. The palpitations I described earlier (which Boulle
himself described) would wreak havoc on the biospheres of any planet
within its "lifezone". Every star has a "lifezone" around it, where
the temperature is neither too hot nor too cold, but when a supergiant
like Betelgeuse undergoes its rhythmic palpitations the lifezone
itself would palpitate accordingly, yet the elliptical orbits of any
planets in the system would NOT be able to adjust to this phenomenon,
since their orbital paths are around the center of gravity
("barycenter") of the star at the focus of the ellipse.
So, I wouldn't say it's totally impossible to find a habitable planet
orbiting Betelgeuse... but it's pretty damned unlikely. And I sure as
hell wouldn't want to be around when that star ran out of hydrogen to
burn: when it goes Supernova... YOWZAH! Of course, even here on Earth,
some 300+ lightyears away, even WE will have a bad time of it if
Betelgeuse explodes in our lifetime.

Patrick

Isn't it true, Patrick, that before a star becomes a red giant it is a star much like ours.  That being a red giant is a sign of its age and it expands to the size of a red giant because it's nearly burned off one of its gases (I forget which)?  Hence, Betelgeuse may have once had an earth-like planet circling it, but it ate it up when it expanded.  This is, I also believe, going to be the fate of our world.  First our star will shrink to a white dwarf, freezing the earth, then expand to a red giant, consuming our world.  It will then go supernova.  I read some place that Betelgeuse should go supernova sometime in the next ten thousand years, but I'm not sure what you mean, Patrick, that it would affect our world, other than giving us something wonderful to look at.  I'd love to live to see it, but ten thousand years is an awful long time.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 8:18 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: So?laris

In a message dated 8/31/02 10:30:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

*** I find it hard to believe that the Cameron/Soderbergh version of
"SOLARIS" could be anywhere near as pretentiously, boringly BAD as the
first filmed version. It's been said that only the terrible films
should be remade, since the great flicks don't NEED remaking, so I'm
not against a second film version of Stanislaw Lem's novel. But this
new flick better not be just "better" than that horrid Russkie waste-
of-time: it better be watchable, dammit!
My hopes aren't up that high, though, since it's evident that Cameron
LIKED that crappy Russian "epic"--the so-called "Russian 2001"! Ye
gadz!

Well, in November there's this SF movie coming out called THE CORE.  It may be good, but more likely it'll make 1959's JOURNEY TO THE CENTER OF THE EARTH look like the 2001 of its day.

Patrick, I was just wondering. . . . Are PLANET and 2001 your two most favorite SF movies, as they are mine, and if so, which do you think is better?  I would have to say that 2001 is the better film in the sense that it is more intelligent, yet I think PLANET is more entertaining and is almost as clever, but in different ways.  PLANET is of course my favorite (I saw it first in '68).

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

----- Original Message -----

From: veetus@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2002 8:00 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: So?laris

  All I can do is ask. What was it like seeing POTA and 2001 in 1968, when they were new and so close together? Must have been awesome. - - Jeff

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 8:18 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: So?laris

In a message dated 8/31/02 10:30:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

*** I find it hard to believe that the Cameron/Soderbergh version of
"SOLARIS" could be anywhere near as pretentiously, boringly BAD as the
first filmed version. It's been said that only the terrible films
should be remade, since the great flicks don't NEED remaking, so I'm
not against a second film version of Stanislaw Lem's novel. But this
new flick better not be just "better" than that horrid Russkie waste-
of-time: it better be watchable, dammit!
My hopes aren't up that high, though, since it's evident that Cameron
LIKED that crappy Russian "epic"--the so-called "Russian 2001"! Ye
gadz!

Well, in November there's this SF movie coming out called THE CORE.  It may be good, but more likely it'll make 1959's JOURNEY TO THE CENTER OF THE EARTH look like the 2001 of its day.

Patrick, I was just wondering. . . . Are PLANET and 2001 your two most favorite SF movies, as they are mine, and if so, which do you think is better?  I would have to say that 2001 is the better film in the sense that it is more intelligent, yet I think PLANET is more entertaining and is almost as clever, but in different ways.  PLANET is of course my favorite (I saw it first in '68).

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 8:29 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] (OT) R.I.P.

In a message dated 8/31/02 11:06:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

BTW, the first VHS release of BENEATH had a mistake on it: the sound
dubbing during the "Lawgiver Vision in the Forbidden Zone" scene was
all messed up. The sounds of the flames & the falling statue continued
on after the illusion-crash, and the only way I knew it was a gaffe
was because I had BENEATH on Beta! I showed the two versions to the
guy who ran the video rental store (back then, it was half-Beta/half-
VHS!), and he ended up sending a letter to the company that first put
out the APES films on VHS. The second versions had corrected the mess-
up.

I wrote the same letter to Fox, which released that messed up BENEATH under the Playhouse Video label.  BENEATH was released on video before any other APES movie, in both Beta and VHS by Magnetic Video, which was later bought by Fox.  I bought the Beta BENEATH before I had a player, figuring I'd get a Betamax, but when I finally had the money saved up ($950 back in 1979!!!) I ended up buying a VHS machine because it could record 2 hours SP and 4 hours LP.  VHS blank tapes back in those days cost $12!)

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

> -----Original Message-----
> From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@...]
> Sent: Sunday, 1 September 2002 1:45
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] "They bear out Hasslein's
> Hypothesis..."
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> > In a message dated 8/31/02 10:15:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> > patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
> >
> >
> > In regards to Boulle's use of Betelgeuse as the star around
> which Soror revolves, yeah, I agree it's not a likely place to
> find any Earth-like planet. The palpitations I described earlier
> (which Boulle himself described) would wreak havoc on the
> biospheres of any planet within its "lifezone". Every star has a
> "lifezone" around it, where the temperature is neither too hot
> nor too cold, but when a supergiant like Betelgeuse undergoes
> its rhythmic palpitations the lifezone itself would palpitate
> accordingly, yet the elliptical orbits of any planets in the
> system would NOT be able to adjust to this phenomenon, since
> their orbital paths are around the center of gravity
> ("barycenter") of the star at the focus of the ellipse. So, I
> wouldn't say it's totally impossible to find a habitable planet
> orbiting Betelgeuse... but it's pretty damned unlikely. And I
> sure as hell wouldn't want to be around when that star ran out of
> hydrogen to burn: when it goes Supernova... YOWZAH! Of course,
> even here on Earth, som
> > >
> > > Patrick
>
> > Isn't it true, Patrick, that before a star becomes a red giant
> it is a star much like ours. That being a red giant is a sign of
> its age and it expands to the size of a red giant because it's
> nearly burned off one of its gases (I forget which)? Hence,
> Betelgeuse may have once had an earth-like planet circling it,
> but it ate it up when it expanded. This is, I also believe,
> going to be the fate of our world. First our star will shrink to
> a white dwarf, freezing the earth, then expand to a red giant,
> consuming our world. It will then go supernova. I read some
> place that Betelgeuse should go supernova sometime in the next
> ten thousand years, but I'm not sure what you mean, Patrick, that
> it would affect our world, other than giving us something
> wonderful to look at. I'd love to live to see it, but ten
> thousand years is an awful long time.
> >
> > -- Rory
>
> *** According to the Internet Stellar Database, Betelgeuse has a mass
> of "20 times Sol", and that makes a difference. More massive stars
> undergo their "stellar evolution" at a different rate than Sol-like
> stars, and before it became a "red giant" star, Betelgeuse was not
> sunlike at all, but was another kind of giant star (a stable giant, as
> opposed to its current status as a variable star). Sunlike stars burn
> hydrogen stably for about 10 billion years or so, and Sol is about
> halfway through its lifetime, whereas more massive stars tend to burn
> hydrogen at a faster rate (I think, though I might be mistaken on
> this), meaning that any planet in such a system wouldn't have enough
> time during the star's stable phase to develop complex life on it.
>
> Most of Betelgeuse's mass has been converted from hydrogen to helium
> (and heavier elements towards the Core), and it is only the remaining
> hydrogen it has which--through fusion--keeps that star from collapsing
> in on itself. Its palpitations are a sign that it is running out of
> fuel. Eventually it'll crush inward on itself and create a Black Hole
> at the center, as about half of its mass gets blasted away as a
> Supernova. If the blastwave of a supernova-exploding Betelgeuse (which
> is somewhere between 300 and 650 or so lightyears away from us) were
> to hit us next week, the radiation would probably kill off every
> surface-dwelling animal on our planet. Even if it didn't kill you, if
> you were unfortunate enough to be looking at it, you'd most probably
> be blinded by it; supernovas routinely are so bright that during
> detonation they outshine the entire Galaxy. Betelgeuse is
> uncomfortably close to us, and nobody knows exactly when it'll go
> Supernova. It could be 10,000 years from now... or it could happen
> tomorrow. We don't know enough about the final phases of any star's
> life-cycle to be able to predict it with exactitude, and the nearest
> other known supernovas astronomers have actually seen have been in
> distant galaxies--where the properties of the pre-supernova star
> weren't known as well as we know Betelgeuse.
>
> When Sol runs out of fuel (in 5 billion years or so), it'll collapse
> in on itself, but it doesn't have enough mass to become a red giant;
> its mass will be converted into electronium--which is what a White
> Dwarf star is made of. That mass will occupy a volume roughly the size
> of the planet Earth. During that conversion into a White Dwarf, the
> sun will go "nova" (NOT "supernova", mind you), and that will fry the
> planet's surface sufficiently. But the Sun will never become a Red
> Giant star, if I'm not mistaken. Just in case I AM mistaken, I'm gonna
> go read some of Isaac Asimov's non-fiction paperbacks, where he goes
> into detail about this stuff.
>
> Patrick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 12:11 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: So?laris


> --- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> > In a message dated 8/31/02 10:30:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> > patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
> >
> >
> > > *** I find it hard to believe that the Cameron/Soderbergh version of
"SOLARIS" could be anywhere near as pretentiously, boringly BAD as the first
filmed version. It's been said that only the terrible films should be
remade, since the great flicks don't NEED remaking, so I'm not against a
second film version of Stanislaw Lem's novel. But this new flick better not
be just "better" than that horrid Russkie waste- of-time: it better be
watchable, dammit! My hopes aren't up that high, though, since it's evident
that Cameron LIKED that crappy Russian "epic"--the so-called "Russian 2001"!
Ye gadz!
> >
> > Well, in November there's this SF movie coming out called THE CORE. It
may be good, but more likely it'll make 1959's JOURNEY TO THE CENTER OF THE
EARTH look like the 2001 of its day.
> >
> > Patrick, I was just wondering. . . . Are PLANET and 2001 your two most
favorite SF movies, as they are mine, and if so, which do you think is
better? I would have to say that 2001 is the better film in the sense that
it is more intelligent, yet I think PLANET is more entertaining and is
almost as clever, but in different ways. PLANET is of course my favorite (I
saw it first in '68).
> >
> > -- Rory
>
> *** This may sound sacriligious to everybody out there, but I don't
> consider PLANET to be primarily "science fiction". Yeah, it has a
> spaceship travelling out to another star system, Dodge using his
> "sensors" to run soil tests, Cornelius doing professional (if
> dangerous) archaology... but at heart POTA is a SATIRE. Same goes for
> flicks like ROBOCOP and DEMOLITION MAN. However, most video rental
> stores don't have a "satire" section, so the "science-fictional"
> trappings of these 3 films get them placed in the Sci-fi section. For
> some stupid reason, the Media Play store where I work part-time (for
> the discounts, natch!) has BLADE-RUNNER in the "action/adventure"
> section... even though there's a "science fiction" section in the
> store, too! We who work in Shipping/Receiving have long given up
> trying to make sense of how the store categorizes the product!
>
> I would say that "2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY" is by far the greatest
> science fiction film that has ever been made--primarily due to the
> lengths Kubrick went to make the science in it as accurate as possible
> (I'm thinking the Zero-G effects, the soundless vacuum, etc.), unlike
> Peter Hyams (that idiot!), who had the audacity--if not the
> intelligence--to put SOUND in the vacuum of space (in his mediocre
> adaptation of Clarke's "2010: Odyssey Two"), and to have the spinning
> Discovery spaceship spinning THE WRONG WAY as the spacewalking
> astronauts crawl down from the center-of-spin towards the spherical
> living module at the front. The spinning Discovery should be pushing
> UP at their feet as they walk along, yet Peter "dumbshit" Hyams has it
> spinning in such a way that the "floor" would actually fall away from
> their feet. Yeesh!
>
> Other "top" SF flicks on my list of favorites:
> BLADE-RUNNER (despite Harrison Ford's lack-of-appreciation, it's one
> of the best SF movies ever made, and Harrison's best performance, I
> think)
>
> ALIEN & ALIENS (I didn't hate ALIEN 3 or ALIEN: RESURRECTION, either,
> though they could have been better, of course)
>
> STAR TREK II, III, IV, VI, & VIII (STTMP was a rip off of "The
> Changeling" and "The Ultimate Computer" and several other original
> episodes; ST-V was ruined by the forced inclusion of ill-placed humor,
> in addition to being a rip-off of the episode about the "hippies" who
> steal the Enterprise ["The Way to Eden"? yeah, I think that was it];
> ST: Insurrection was VILE, and an insult to the pro-science thematic
> thrust of Star Trek; ST: Generations was iffy--though I did like the
> idea of a lunatic purposely blowing up stars just to create a new
> pathway for that goofy "energy ribbon" thingy: why not just fly a
> spaceship directly in its path, instead? Oh, I forgot... that would be
> the OBVIOUS thing to do!)
>
> CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND (Spielberg took a topic that is
> "officially" laughed at--UFOs--and made the most intelligent movie yet
> on the subject)
>
> FORBIDDEN PLANET (dated and kinda hokey, but wonderful still, and
> insightful regarding the "monsters of the Id")
>
> DARK-STAR (yeah, it's a parody... but it's intelligently funny)
>
> A BOY AND HIS DOG (Harlan Ellison... too bad more of his stuff hasn't
> been adapted to the big screen)
>
> DEMON WITH A GLASS HAND (yeah, it's a TV episode of Outer Limits, but
> it's sooooo friggin' magnificent! Harlan wrote it, and I think it's
> better than all the Twilight Zone episodes and other Outer Limits
> episodes.)
>
> MINORITY REPORT (best SF movie in 10 years)
>
> THE TERMINATOR (and TERMINATOR 2); Arnold's most effective
> performances on film: the remorseless killing machine... then the
> reprogrammed Asimovian (almost) guardian of humanity's future...
>
> THE ANDROMEDA STRAIN (great book AND movie adaptation)
>
> There are others I could mention, but some flicks that I personally
> love aren't necessarily great SF: STAR WARS, EMPIRE STRIKES BACK,
> LOGAN'S RUN (the book was infinitely better, but I still have a soft
> spot in my heart for the movie that got me to read the book in the
> first place), SOYLENT GREEN (an improvement on Harry Harrison's
> novella "Make Room, Make Room!"), THE OMEGA MAN (an odd adaptation of
> "I Am Legend", turning Vampires into Counter-culture hippie-zombies,
> but Ah! there's good ol' CHUCK HESTON kickin' ass and takin' names!).
>
> But... my absolutely favorite film of all time--despite the fact that
> it's not the BEST film ever made, regardless of whichever genre one
> might place it--is PLANET OF THE APES. There are too many reasons to
> go into to explain why it's so damn good, but there IS one reason why
> I think it is one of the most IMPORTANT films ever made: it says
> something about the human race, at the most critical time in our
> species' history, that NEEDED to be said. If we destroy our own
> civilization--a prospect that any/every scientifically advanced
> species will face at some point, upon discovery of the potential of
> creating Atomic Weapons--then we will deserve the condemnation of
> those intelligences which do NOT go down the road of self-destruction.
> Humanity is a "marvel of the universe... that glorious paradox" which
> STILL makes war against his own kind. When Arnold's Terminator says,
> "It's in your nature to destroy yourselves", Cameron got that from
> PLANET OF THE APES. Kubrick's 'Ulysses' character in 2001 (astronaut
> Dave Bowman) is "boosted" into a trans-human StarChild--the aliens who
> built the Monolith... who taught Moonwatcher to use a bone from a
> skeleton as a killing weapon (boosting the evolution of "Man"), which
> led to Man's creation of high-tech (including Nukes)... act as a sort
> of cosmic midwife, helping to transform Man into the Nietzchean
> "superman" (hence, the Strauss music from "Also Sprach Zarathustra").
> But PLANET OF THE APES does not have any Monolith-building aliens
> around to help Mankind over the "hump" of our own Nature. It's up to
> us to overcome our self-destructive tendencies... and the religion-
> intoxicated masses fomenting "jihad" out there (or advocating a new
> "crusade" to counter it) give me a bad feeling as to our prospects.
> For me, it's always been the MESSAGE in the POTA flicks that has made
> me a rabid admirer of the series.
>
> Patrick
>
> P.S. Sorry about gettin' "verbose", Rory. I got on a roll...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@...]
> Sent: Sunday, 1 September 2002 5:33
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Add this to the List... [OT]
>
>
> Oops, I forgot one more flick to add to my personal "Best of" list.
>
> ZARDOZ (!)
>
> People either love it or hate it (with a passion!), and there are
> friends of mine who will NEVER take my word for it ever again
> regarding the quality of a movie... just because I recommended they
> see ZARDOZ.
>
> I just love the whole topsy-turvy sendup of Christian theology: the
> Christian religion posits that human beings die because God punishes
> our "sin" with the death penalty... and we want to keep from dying
> because we fear death, and so we need a substitute victim (a
> sacrificial animal such as a lamb... or the "Lamb of God") to die in
> our place so that we can gain Eternal Life... and this is all
> presupposed on the notion that the human mind will ENJOY being alive
> forever.
> In ZARDOZ, John Boorman speculates that the human mind will eventually
> become sick-and-tired of being alive, and that eventually we all will
> crave death (oh, it may take a few centuries or millennia... but in
> time, there's "too much of a good thing"--even Life). Therefore,
> Boorman created an "anti-Christ" type of character: Sean Connery's
> "Zed", named after the last letter of the alphabet (as the Brits
> pronounce it), just as Christ (and BENEATH's "doomsday bomb") was the
> "Alpha and Omega". But Zed brings to the Immortals--who cannot die--
> the "gift" of Death, a death they yearn for. Zed fights a mental duel
> with the Tabernacle--an Artificial Intelligence which is, in every
> respect, the "God" of the Immortals--and Zed WINS! Zed destroys "God",
> momentarily turns back Time, brings Death to the deathless Immortals.
> I think it's probably the most blasphemous film ever made... and that
> alone makes it a "must see" movie--I think every Christian (or "god-
> believer" in general) should see it, just to have their religious
> assumptions shaken up a bit.
>
> Patrick
>
> P.S. It isn't an easy film to love, so I won't hold it against anybody
> here if they despise this movie. But there IS one line that is rather
> notorious: "The Gun is GOOD... the Penis is EVIL!"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alan Maxwell [alan@...]
> Sent: Sunday, 1 September 2002 7:10

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alan Maxwell [alan@...]
> Sent: Sunday, 1 September 2002 7:10
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Gold Key Comic

>
> Talking of which, I went to a memorabilia event last week - some of
> the Apes stuff available included Medicom figures at £30 (I nearly
> laughed myself silly - the dealer in question was obviously hoping
> nobody knew they were being brought out here at affordable prices
> shortly) and the four variants at £40 each (about 60 USD?). Also saw
> the herald newspaper spoof from Battle for a princely £100! I saw
> loads of other MIB Pota stuff as well, but frankly when I saw the old
> Mego figures still mint in their packaging I didn't even ask the
> prices.
>
> It's an expensive business!
>
> (In the end all I bought was the four cards I needed to complete the
> poster chase set from the Archives series, a small French pressbook
> for Escape and a few issues of Kamandi!)
>
> Alan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Michael Whitty

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 5:56 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] POTA Collectibles

That's correct Rory (as usual!).

 

If it was a good movie the prices would have skyrocketed.

 

Oh well.

 

Michael

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Haristas@... [Haristas@...]
Sent: Saturday, 31 August 2002 10:59
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Gold Key Comic

In a message dated 8/30/02 7:32:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, whitty@... writes:

Well now could be a good time - prices of POTA Collectibles have hit rock
bottom.

Michael

We have the lasting qualities of POTA 2001 to thank for that!

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

Looking forward to gettin that, thanks! :o)

 Alexander Ruiz wrote:

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 4:21 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Add this to the List Too... [OT]


> Well, as a matter of coincidence I re-watched a movie yesterday that took
me
> straight back to the first time I saw it. Mad Max 2 (released in the US
as
> "the Road Warrior" because it was unlikely that anyone there had seen the
> original Mad Max").
>
> I really enjoyed watching this and in many ways it reflected the
> post-apocolyptic scenarion POTA was portraying.
>
> Apparently the original Mad Max is to be released on DVD within the next
> month....are you ready for it T?
>
> The less said about "Beyond Thunderdome", the better...what were they
> thinking?
>
> Michael
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@...]
> > Sent: Sunday, 1 September 2002 5:33
> > To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Add this to the List... [OT]
> >
> >
> > Oops, I forgot one more flick to add to my personal "Best of" list.
> >
> > ZARDOZ (!)
> >
> > People either love it or hate it (with a passion!), and there are
> > friends of mine who will NEVER take my word for it ever again
> > regarding the quality of a movie... just because I recommended they
> > see ZARDOZ.
> >
> > I just love the whole topsy-turvy sendup of Christian theology: the
> > Christian religion posits that human beings die because God punishes
> > our "sin" with the death penalty... and we want to keep from dying
> > because we fear death, and so we need a substitute victim (a
> > sacrificial animal such as a lamb... or the "Lamb of God") to die in
> > our place so that we can gain Eternal Life... and this is all
> > presupposed on the notion that the human mind will ENJOY being alive
> > forever.
> > In ZARDOZ, John Boorman speculates that the human mind will eventually
> > become sick-and-tired of being alive, and that eventually we all will
> > crave death (oh, it may take a few centuries or millennia... but in
> > time, there's "too much of a good thing"--even Life). Therefore,
> > Boorman created an "anti-Christ" type of character: Sean Connery's
> > "Zed", named after the last letter of the alphabet (as the Brits
> > pronounce it), just as Christ (and BENEATH's "doomsday bomb") was the
> > "Alpha and Omega". But Zed brings to the Immortals--who cannot die--
> > the "gift" of Death, a death they yearn for. Zed fights a mental duel
> > with the Tabernacle--an Artificial Intelligence which is, in every
> > respect, the "God" of the Immortals--and Zed WINS! Zed destroys "God",
> > momentarily turns back Time, brings Death to the deathless Immortals.
> > I think it's probably the most blasphemous film ever made... and that
> > alone makes it a "must see" movie--I think every Christian (or "god-
> > believer" in general) should see it, just to have their religious
> > assumptions shaken up a bit.
> >
> > Patrick
> >
> > P.S. It isn't an easy film to love, so I won't hold it against anybody
> > here if they despise this movie. But there IS one line that is rather
> > notorious: "The Gun is GOOD... the Penis is EVIL!"
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 4:30 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] (OT) R.I.P.

In a message dated 8/31/02 6:08:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:

  I remember seeing an ad for a video club back then, offering "Beneath" or a couple of other choices if you join. I thought, wow, you can actually OWN "Beneath"? How rich do you have to be? And what about "Planet"? That was before "Planet" was released. Somehow "Beneath" is the high profile one. It seems to get shown more on TV, at least it used to (I don't keep track anymore since I have them now). - - - Jeff

The ad you're taking about was in TV Guide, at least that's where I first saw it, and it was for the Magnetic Video Club and they offered only a handful of Fox films.  Fox was the first company to get into the home video biz.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 4:31 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] "They bear out Hasslein's Hypothesis..."

In a message dated 8/31/02 6:11:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:

Don't be such a Pessimistic Pete, Rory. God won't let that happen! Show some respect. - - - Jeff

God?  Who or what are you talking about?

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 4:36 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: So?laris

In a message dated 8/31/02 6:55:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:

Hey, you're right! Hyams put sound in space for "2010". That idiot!
Kubrick went out of his way to exclude sound. But Arthur C. Clarke was a
constant consultant on "2010" so they should have known better. I think
after "Star Wars" people just accept the conceit and space might not seem
"realistic" without sound. Hyams was Cameron's choice to direct the new
POTA.  

HYAMS?!!!  Well, I guess he couldn't have done worse than Burton.  I think I read Hyams say that modern audiences just kind of expect what they see to make a sound.  If you want to rip something over hearing sound in space what about STAR TREK?  If I were a director I would insist on no sound in space, but I's cover it with music.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 8:31 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] "They bear out Hasslein's Hypothesis..."

In a message dated 8/31/02 9:08:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:

  You know, God. Never heard of Him? He protects Us from harm because we were created in His image. The animals in the forest live in sin, but He gave up His only son so that the Earth wouldn't swell up like a balloon and turn red like Betelguise. Or something like that. Etc.                          - - - Jeff

Mystic phooey!

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

----- Original Message -----
From: <veetus@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2002 10:58 AM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Add this to the List Too... [OT]


> "Mad Max" has been on DVD for almost a year here, with some extras. I
> enjoyed "Thunderdome", more than the original. "Road Warrior" is a
classic,
> one of my favorites of all time. Last I heard, Mel wants to do "Max 4". He
> said he'd do anything to work with george Miller again. I think they're
> shooting in Africa next year. - - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 4:21 PM
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Add this to the List Too... [OT]
>
>
> > Well, as a matter of coincidence I re-watched a movie yesterday that
took
> me
> > straight back to the first time I saw it. Mad Max 2 (released in the US
> as
> > "the Road Warrior" because it was unlikely that anyone there had seen
the
> > original Mad Max").
> >
> > I really enjoyed watching this and in many ways it reflected the
> > post-apocolyptic scenarion POTA was portraying.
> >
> > Apparently the original Mad Max is to be released on DVD within the next
> > month....are you ready for it T?
> >
> > The less said about "Beyond Thunderdome", the better...what were they
> > thinking?
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@...]
> > > Sent: Sunday, 1 September 2002 5:33
> > > To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Add this to the List... [OT]
> > >
> > >
> > > Oops, I forgot one more flick to add to my personal "Best of" list.
> > >
> > > ZARDOZ (!)
> > >
> > > People either love it or hate it (with a passion!), and there are
> > > friends of mine who will NEVER take my word for it ever again
> > > regarding the quality of a movie... just because I recommended they
> > > see ZARDOZ.
> > >
> > > I just love the whole topsy-turvy sendup of Christian theology: the
> > > Christian religion posits that human beings die because God punishes
> > > our "sin" with the death penalty... and we want to keep from dying
> > > because we fear death, and so we need a substitute victim (a
> > > sacrificial animal such as a lamb... or the "Lamb of God") to die in
> > > our place so that we can gain Eternal Life... and this is all
> > > presupposed on the notion that the human mind will ENJOY being alive
> > > forever.
> > > In ZARDOZ, John Boorman speculates that the human mind will eventually
> > > become sick-and-tired of being alive, and that eventually we all will
> > > crave death (oh, it may take a few centuries or millennia... but in
> > > time, there's "too much of a good thing"--even Life). Therefore,
> > > Boorman created an "anti-Christ" type of character: Sean Connery's
> > > "Zed", named after the last letter of the alphabet (as the Brits
> > > pronounce it), just as Christ (and BENEATH's "doomsday bomb") was the
> > > "Alpha and Omega". But Zed brings to the Immortals--who cannot die--
> > > the "gift" of Death, a death they yearn for. Zed fights a mental duel
> > > with the Tabernacle--an Artificial Intelligence which is, in every
> > > respect, the "God" of the Immortals--and Zed WINS! Zed destroys "God",
> > > momentarily turns back Time, brings Death to the deathless Immortals.
> > > I think it's probably the most blasphemous film ever made... and that
> > > alone makes it a "must see" movie--I think every Christian (or "god-
> > > believer" in general) should see it, just to have their religious
> > > assumptions shaken up a bit.
> > >
> > > Patrick
> > >
> > > P.S. It isn't an easy film to love, so I won't hold it against anybody
> > > here if they despise this movie. But there IS one line that is rather
> > > notorious: "The Gun is GOOD... the Penis is EVIL!"
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: veetus@... [veetus@...]
> Sent: Sunday, 1 September 2002 10:58
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Add this to the List Too... [OT]
>
>
> "Mad Max" has been on DVD for almost a year here, with some extras. I
> enjoyed "Thunderdome", more than the original. "Road Warrior" is
> a classic,
> one of my favorites of all time. Last I heard, Mel wants to do "Max 4". He
> said he'd do anything to work with george Miller again. I think they're
> shooting in Africa next year. - - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 4:21 PM
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Add this to the List Too... [OT]
>
>
> > Well, as a matter of coincidence I re-watched a movie yesterday
> that took
> me
> > straight back to the first time I saw it. Mad Max 2 (released in the US
> as
> > "the Road Warrior" because it was unlikely that anyone there
> had seen the
> > original Mad Max").
> >
> > I really enjoyed watching this and in many ways it reflected the
> > post-apocolyptic scenarion POTA was portraying.
> >
> > Apparently the original Mad Max is to be released on DVD within the next
> > month....are you ready for it T?
> >
> > The less said about "Beyond Thunderdome", the better...what were they
> > thinking?
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@...]
> > > Sent: Sunday, 1 September 2002 5:33
> > > To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Add this to the List... [OT]
> > >
> > >
> > > Oops, I forgot one more flick to add to my personal "Best of" list.
> > >
> > > ZARDOZ (!)
> > >
> > > People either love it or hate it (with a passion!), and there are
> > > friends of mine who will NEVER take my word for it ever again
> > > regarding the quality of a movie... just because I recommended they
> > > see ZARDOZ.
> > >
> > > I just love the whole topsy-turvy sendup of Christian theology: the
> > > Christian religion posits that human beings die because God punishes
> > > our "sin" with the death penalty... and we want to keep from dying
> > > because we fear death, and so we need a substitute victim (a
> > > sacrificial animal such as a lamb... or the "Lamb of God") to die in
> > > our place so that we can gain Eternal Life... and this is all
> > > presupposed on the notion that the human mind will ENJOY being alive
> > > forever.
> > > In ZARDOZ, John Boorman speculates that the human mind will eventually
> > > become sick-and-tired of being alive, and that eventually we all will
> > > crave death (oh, it may take a few centuries or millennia... but in
> > > time, there's "too much of a good thing"--even Life). Therefore,
> > > Boorman created an "anti-Christ" type of character: Sean Connery's
> > > "Zed", named after the last letter of the alphabet (as the Brits
> > > pronounce it), just as Christ (and BENEATH's "doomsday bomb") was the
> > > "Alpha and Omega". But Zed brings to the Immortals--who cannot die--
> > > the "gift" of Death, a death they yearn for. Zed fights a mental duel
> > > with the Tabernacle--an Artificial Intelligence which is, in every
> > > respect, the "God" of the Immortals--and Zed WINS! Zed destroys "God",
> > > momentarily turns back Time, brings Death to the deathless Immortals.
> > > I think it's probably the most blasphemous film ever made... and that
> > > alone makes it a "must see" movie--I think every Christian (or "god-
> > > believer" in general) should see it, just to have their religious
> > > assumptions shaken up a bit.
> > >
> > > Patrick
> > >
> > > P.S. It isn't an easy film to love, so I won't hold it against anybody
> > > here if they despise this movie. But there IS one line that is rather
> > > notorious: "The Gun is GOOD... the Penis is EVIL!"
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken and Heather Taylor [ktaylor@...]
> Sent: Sunday, 1 September 2002 17:51
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Add this to the List Too... [OT]
>
>
> Yes, 'Mad Max 4: Pig in the City' is something we can all look forward to.
> Actually I'm one of the few who just isn't into Mad Max, or The
> Matrix...OR
> MIB2. But you knew that didn't you.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <veetus@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2002 10:58 AM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Add this to the List Too... [OT]
>
>
> > "Mad Max" has been on DVD for almost a year here, with some extras. I
> > enjoyed "Thunderdome", more than the original. "Road Warrior" is a
> classic,
> > one of my favorites of all time. Last I heard, Mel wants to do
> "Max 4". He
> > said he'd do anything to work with george Miller again. I think they're
> > shooting in Africa next year. - - - Jeff
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...>
> > To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 4:21 PM
> > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Add this to the List Too... [OT]
> >
> >
> > > Well, as a matter of coincidence I re-watched a movie yesterday that
> took
> > me
> > > straight back to the first time I saw it. Mad Max 2
> (released in the US
> > as
> > > "the Road Warrior" because it was unlikely that anyone there had seen
> the
> > > original Mad Max").
> > >
> > > I really enjoyed watching this and in many ways it reflected the
> > > post-apocolyptic scenarion POTA was portraying.
> > >
> > > Apparently the original Mad Max is to be released on DVD
> within the next
> > > month....are you ready for it T?
> > >
> > > The less said about "Beyond Thunderdome", the better...what were they
> > > thinking?
> > >
> > > Michael
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@...]
> > > > Sent: Sunday, 1 September 2002 5:33
> > > > To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Add this to the List... [OT]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Oops, I forgot one more flick to add to my personal "Best of" list.
> > > >
> > > > ZARDOZ (!)
> > > >
> > > > People either love it or hate it (with a passion!), and there are
> > > > friends of mine who will NEVER take my word for it ever again
> > > > regarding the quality of a movie... just because I recommended they
> > > > see ZARDOZ.
> > > >
> > > > I just love the whole topsy-turvy sendup of Christian theology: the
> > > > Christian religion posits that human beings die because God punishes
> > > > our "sin" with the death penalty... and we want to keep from dying
> > > > because we fear death, and so we need a substitute victim (a
> > > > sacrificial animal such as a lamb... or the "Lamb of God") to die in
> > > > our place so that we can gain Eternal Life... and this is all
> > > > presupposed on the notion that the human mind will ENJOY being alive
> > > > forever.
> > > > In ZARDOZ, John Boorman speculates that the human mind will
> eventually
> > > > become sick-and-tired of being alive, and that eventually
> we all will
> > > > crave death (oh, it may take a few centuries or millennia... but in
> > > > time, there's "too much of a good thing"--even Life). Therefore,
> > > > Boorman created an "anti-Christ" type of character: Sean Connery's
> > > > "Zed", named after the last letter of the alphabet (as the Brits
> > > > pronounce it), just as Christ (and BENEATH's "doomsday
> bomb") was the
> > > > "Alpha and Omega". But Zed brings to the Immortals--who cannot die--
> > > > the "gift" of Death, a death they yearn for. Zed fights a
> mental duel
> > > > with the Tabernacle--an Artificial Intelligence which is, in every
> > > > respect, the "God" of the Immortals--and Zed WINS! Zed
> destroys "God",
> > > > momentarily turns back Time, brings Death to the deathless
> Immortals.
> > > > I think it's probably the most blasphemous film ever
> made... and that
> > > > alone makes it a "must see" movie--I think every Christian (or "god-
> > > > believer" in general) should see it, just to have their religious
> > > > assumptions shaken up a bit.
> > > >
> > > > Patrick
> > > >
> > > > P.S. It isn't an easy film to love, so I won't hold it
> against anybody
> > > > here if they despise this movie. But there IS one line that
> is rather
> > > > notorious: "The Gun is GOOD... the Penis is EVIL!"
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

>
>

> I believe Boulle wrote the book in '62, since it came out in '63 (Febru=

> In a message dated 8/31/02 2:20:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
>
> *** Me again. According to http://www.xware.ru/db/msg/1168257, the Vela Pulsar ("SuperNova Remnant", or SNR) is about 800 lightyears away, and the supernova in question happened a little over 10,000 years ago. I don't know about you, but I'd rather be 800 lightyears away than 300-some lightyears away from an exploding supergiant.
>
> Patrick


> I think 300 lightyears is more than enough distance. First off, it'll take 300 years before we (meaning mankind of course) see the star go supernova, then it'll take I don't know how much longer before any matter from the star got here, and by then that matter would be spread pretty thin. I don't think man has anything to worry about from Betelgeuse. Man has more to worry about from man.
>
> -- Rory

> In a message dated 8/31/02 6:55:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> veetus@e... writes:
>
>
> > Hey, you're right! Hyams put sound in space for "2010". That idiot! Kub=

>
> HYAMS?!!! Well, I guess he couldn't have done worse than Burton. I thin=

>
> -- Rory

> In a message dated 8/31/02 7:32:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> whitty@c... writes:
>
>
> > Ken Taylor and I are collectors and both of us have paid INSANE prices for classic POTA stuff - we were reminiscing on the telephone yesterday actually (the UK Wrapping Paper we paid $250 US for that you can get for $10 now, the Popping Shotgun we paid $275US for that you can get for $20 now).
>
>
> You guys!!! You want to hear insane? I paid $1200.00 for a PLANET
> six-sheet poster. Of course, that isn't going to go down in price.
>
> -- Rory

> > Well now could be a good time - prices of POTA Collectibles have hit
> rock
> > bottom.
>
> I don't know about that - certainly a lot of people were stung by
> PotA2001 (with Tim Burton involved, a lot of people weren't banking on
> it being quite so pish) and all the PotA2001 merchandise is bargain
> bin stuff now. But the original sure as hell isn't getting any cheaper
> in my neck of the woods!

> Talking of which, I went to a memorabilia event last week - some of
> the Apes stuff available included Medicom figures at £30 (I nearly
> laughed myself silly - the dealer in question was obviously hoping
> nobody knew they were being brought out here at affordable prices
> shortly) and the four variants at £40 each (about 60 USD?). Also saw
> the herald newspaper spoof from Battle for a princely £100! I saw
> loads of other MIB Pota stuff as well, but frankly when I saw the old
> Mego figures still mint in their packaging I didn't even ask the
> prices.
>
> It's an expensive business!

> In a message dated 8/31/02 10:05:57 AM Central Daylight Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
>
> > *** Especially those "forbidden" Looney Tunes "colored" classics, like "So White and de Sebben Dwarves". Without a doubt, it was the funniest damn cartoon ever made... but the NAACP has no sense of humor, and Turner is afraid to let it be seen
>
> The correct title is "Coal Black and de Sebben Dwarfs." It's ranked #21 in a book I have entitled "The 50 Greatest Cartoons."
>
> Matt

>
> Same thing with "Song of the South"; available in Canada but probably
> never in the U.S.

> Stereotypically, it's no worse than "Gone With the Wind".
> And it's funnier! - - - Jeff
>

> I will pray for you my son. You are an instrument of Patrick! Etc. - - =

> You know, God. Never heard of Him? He protects Us from harm because=

>

> Mystic phooey!

>
> Hey, you're right! Hyams put sound in space for "2010". That idiot!
> Kubrick went out of his way to exclude sound. But Arthur C. Clarke was a
> constant consultant on "2010" so they should have known better. I think
> after "Star Wars" people just accept the conceit and space might not seem
> "realistic" without sound. Hyams was Cameron's choice to direct the new
> POTA.
>
> My favorite sci-fi movies are:
>
> 1. "Planet of the Apes" (1968)
> 2. "2001"
> 3. "The Fly" (1986)
> 4. "Metropolis"
> 5. "The Terminator"
> 6. "Blade Runner"
> 7. "Escape From the POTA"
> 8. "Frankenstein" (1931) - sci-fi as much as horror
> 9. "Close Encounters"
> 10. "Invisible Man" (193?)

> In a message dated 9/1/02 10:28:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> melkor@... writes:
>
>
> > 1. Battle POTA
> > 2. POTA
> > 3. Beneath POTA
> > 4. Conquest POTA
> > 5. Aliens Special Edition
> > 6. Terminator II Special Edition
> > 7. Escape POTA
> > 8. Star Wars IV Special Edition (though I'm not happy w/all the changes)
> > 9. Star Trek IV
> > 10. Futureworld
>
> You must have seen BATTLE first when you were a kid.
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Melkor" <melkor@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2002 6:13 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] POTA toys


> > > Well now could be a good time - prices of POTA Collectibles have hit
> > rock
> > > bottom.
> >
> > I don't know about that - certainly a lot of people were stung by
> > PotA2001 (with Tim Burton involved, a lot of people weren't banking on
> > it being quite so pish) and all the PotA2001 merchandise is bargain
> > bin stuff now. But the original sure as hell isn't getting any cheaper
> > in my neck of the woods!
>
> I have never seen the POTA 2001 wave 2 action figures at any price. I
would
> have like to gotten a Pericles. However I regret wasting money on the
Thade
> figure. Limbo is a good figure because he is about the same size as the
> Medicoms and can hang out with Dr. Zaius.
>
>
> > Talking of which, I went to a memorabilia event last week - some of
> > the Apes stuff available included Medicom figures at £30 (I nearly
> > laughed myself silly - the dealer in question was obviously hoping
> > nobody knew they were being brought out here at affordable prices
> > shortly) and the four variants at £40 each (about 60 USD?). Also saw
> > the herald newspaper spoof from Battle for a princely £100! I saw
> > loads of other MIB Pota stuff as well, but frankly when I saw the old
> > Mego figures still mint in their packaging I didn't even ask the
> > prices.
> >
> > It's an expensive business!
>
> I was at a toy show here in USA Texas 6 months ago and saw an interesting
item.
> Half of it was little plastic green army men figures with a jeep and the
other
> half was little plastic POTA figures about the same size as the green army
men.
> I vaguely recalled seeing this before somewhere and apparently they are
rare.
> It looked pretty cool so I asked the dealer how much he wanted for it and
he
> said $700. I don't think so!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2002 6:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] (OT) More DVD news


> --- In pota@y..., MTotsky@a... wrote:
> > In a message dated 8/31/02 10:05:57 AM Central Daylight Time,
> > patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
> >
> >
> > > *** Especially those "forbidden" Looney Tunes "colored" classics, like
"So White and de Sebben Dwarves". Without a doubt, it was the funniest damn
cartoon ever made... but the NAACP has no sense of humor, and Turner is
afraid to let it be seen
> >
> > The correct title is "Coal Black and de Sebben Dwarfs." It's ranked #21
in a book I have entitled "The 50 Greatest Cartoons."
> >
> > Matt
>
> *** You're right. For some reason, the title character in the actual
> cartoon isn't "Coal Black" but "So White" (as in, "passing for
> white"?).
> What I would give (or pay) to have a pristine copy of that cartoon on
> DVD! The negro caricatures may be "shocking" by today's politically
> correct standards, but not more so than the jive-talking man-eating
> plant in "Little Shop of Horrors" (the Rick Moranis musical remake).
> And if "Latino-Americans" can be defenders of the Speedy Gonzales
> character (which some people thought was an insensitive portrayal of
> latinos), then can't African-Americans lighten-up (No pun intended--
> honest!) and let us enjoy those hilarious "colored" cartoons?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Melkor" <melkor@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2002 6:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] (OT) More DVD news


> >
> > Same thing with "Song of the South"; available in Canada but probably
> > never in the U.S.
>
> I thought Song of the South was only released in Japan.
>
>
> > Stereotypically, it's no worse than "Gone With the Wind".
> > And it's funnier! - - - Jeff
> >
>
> <Song of the South spoilers>
> Song of the South must take place a few years after the Civil War. At the
> end of the movie it is apparent that Uncle Remus is not a slave when you
> see him leaving the plantation on his own. He seemed way too cheerful to
> be a slave anyway.
> </Song of the South spoilers>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2002 6:33 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Jeff's merciful God...


--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> I will pray for you my son. You are an instrument of Patrick! Etc. - - =
- Jeff

*** If you insist on draggin' me into this, then here's my 2¢.
Question: How many infants did Jehovah murder when he destroyed ALL
LIFE (except for Noah's Ark-ful) on Earth?
Answer: Assuming that Flood-myth actually happened, then EVERY SINGLE
INFANT alive then was murdered by Jehovah.
Think of it: what would the Earth's population have been roughly 4400
years ago? A couple million, maybe? How many of those Flood victims
were pregnant women? On any given day, what percentage of women in the
world are pregnant? Did their unborn children deserve to be destroyed
along with all the "sinners" that Jehovah wanted to kill? Did the new-
born babies suckling at their mothers' teats deserve to drown to
death? You'd think that an all-powerful "god" could selectively zap
the bad guys, like the evil Kirk in "Mirror, Mirror" with his secret
weapon in his Captain's Quarters. But NOOOOO! Jehovah likes committing
murder... until he's suddenly sorry he did it and puts pretty rainbows
in the sky as a "sign" that he'll never do THAT again! Yeesh! Mystic
phooey is RIGHT.

Of course, the Flood myth in Genesis is a monotheistic bastardization
of the original polytheistic story told in the Gilgamesh epic and the
Atrahasis epic, from Sumeria. In those original versions, the Storm
God ENLIL was the one who orchestrated the intentional mass-murder of
humanity, and his half-brother Sea God ENKI was the Prometheus-like
protector of the remnant led by Utnapishtim. When the Biblical
"redactor" took these Sumerian myths (which he probably learned about
during the "Babylonian Captivity" in the 6th Century B.C.), which the
Babylonians had kept alive, that Hebrew monotheist re-wrote it and
thus created a single god who is alternately cruel (Enlil) then
merciful (Enki); Jehovah--the literary creation of that Redactor--
could accurately be called a "schizophrenic god".

Patrick

> You know, God. Never heard of Him? He protects Us from harm because=
we were created in His image. The animals in the forest live in sin, but
He=
gave up His only son so that the Earth wouldn't swell up like a balloon
and=
turn red like Betelguise. Or something like that. Etc.
=
- - - Jeff
>

> Mystic phooey!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Melkor" <melkor@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2002 7:30 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: So?laris


> >
> > Hey, you're right! Hyams put sound in space for "2010". That idiot!
> > Kubrick went out of his way to exclude sound. But Arthur C. Clarke was a
> > constant consultant on "2010" so they should have known better. I think
> > after "Star Wars" people just accept the conceit and space might not
seem
> > "realistic" without sound. Hyams was Cameron's choice to direct the new
> > POTA.
> >
> > My favorite sci-fi movies are:
> >
> > 1. "Planet of the Apes" (1968)
> > 2. "2001"
> > 3. "The Fly" (1986)
> > 4. "Metropolis"
> > 5. "The Terminator"
> > 6. "Blade Runner"
> > 7. "Escape From the POTA"
> > 8. "Frankenstein" (1931) - sci-fi as much as horror
> > 9. "Close Encounters"
> > 10. "Invisible Man" (193?)
>
> 1. Battle POTA
> 2. POTA
> 3. Beneath POTA
> 4. Conquest POTA
> 5. Aliens Special Edition
> 6. Terminator II Special Edition
> 7. Escape POTA
> 8. Star Wars IV Special Edition (though I'm not happy w/all the changes)
> 9. Star Trek IV
> 10. Futureworld
>
>
> Like the POTA movies, Aliens and Alien have an interesting liberal
> political tilt. It took guts to give Aliens an anti-corporate
> "the Company fucks you" message in the middle of the 1980's and to
> portray corporate executives as unethical.
>
> But it's not uncommon at all for scifi movies to have anticonservative
satire.
>
> Robocop - A comment on the late 1980's trend of privatizing government
> services, and the media trend of blurring news with entertainment.
>
> Starship Troopers - Yes it was corny, but it was supposed to be corny.
> This movie was all about government propaganda. i.e. Did you understand
what
> was really going on early in the movie, or did you not get it until you
> saw the Nazi style uniforms at the end?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2002 7:28 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: So?laris

In a message dated 9/1/02 8:57:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

but I
still think that Hyams' un-Kubrickian sound effect in a film which IS
a sequel to Kubrick's movie makes it deserve the "über-raspberry".

Hyams is a hack.  I've know that for years.  Remember CAPRICORN ONE?  Only good thing about that movie are the scenes that remind you of PLANET, and OF COURSE, one of the great Jerry Goldsmith scores.  But Hyams is a hack.  What did you think of 3001 (was that what it was?), Patrick?  I don't think any of the sequels to 2001 were all that great.  I find the later Clarke very hard to read because he's become such a name dropper.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2002 7:38 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] (OT) More DVD news

In a message dated 9/1/02 9:31:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time, melkor@... writes:

I thought Song of the South was only released in Japan.

I think you're right.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .