.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 8:59 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] What are they waiting 4? (OT)

In a message dated 9/5/02 10:36:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:

  What's funny is the sequels to movies that came out the same summer as
POTA2001. They just announced "Legally Blonde 2"; what's her face is getting
$15 million. "Tomb Raider 2" is almost finished shooting. I bet half the
movies that came out that summer are getting sequels. And Rory's right
again, "Apes" ain't one of them. - - Jeff

I never saw LEGALLY BLONDE, but I saw TOMB RAIDER and the guys producing the sequel have got to be desperate.  It'll suck and that'll be that.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

I think James likes "Patton", don't you? - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 11:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] What If?


> If Goldsmith had done Beneath he wouldn't of been able to do Patton.
>
> --- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> > Remember that Schaffner knew how to get out of Goldsmith what he
> wanted. A
> > lot of the mood that PLANET has is in that music. BENEATH would
> feel like a
> > very different movie if Goldsmith had done the music -- which I
> wish he had.
> >
> > -- Rory
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

But then people would have been anticipating the ending. Etc. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 11:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] What If?


> OK That make much more sense. I've often thought of POTA as a big
> Twilight Zone episode. All that's missing is Serling at the
> beginning saying 'Submitted for your approval; Astronaut George
> Taylor...etc.".
>
> --- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > Yo guessed it - I have had little sleep. Replace "Spielberg"
> > with "Serling".
> >
> > Michael
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

This Star Trek plot has the potential to be one of the best Trek movies. We
won't know for sure until the movie comes out though. I think a big reason
that the Trek movie franchise has lasted so long is that they manage to make a
pretty good movie every other time (all the even numbered movies). Perhaps
Paramount knows that if they make 2 or 3 movies in a row as awful as the
last movie or Star Trek 5 was then the franchise is sunk.

I still think 2 bad movies in a row is what ruined the Alien franchise and
the worst thing that could happen to the POTA franchise is to rush out
a new movie as bad as POTA 2001. I hope they do make more POTA movies but
I hope they dump Burton and carefully consider what made the 5 earlier films
so popular. No dark and/or red Wizard of Oz crap. It would be cool to
see at least a few the apes wearing the same style suits from the original.

> I can answer this, having read the script as part of my job. However, so
> as not to spoil it for anyone why doesn't want to know, here's some spoiler
> space...
>
>
> and some more...
>
>
> and some more...
>
>
> and some more...
>
>
> and some more...
>
>
> and some more...
>
>
> and some more...
>
>
> The villain of Star Trek: Nemesis is Picard! You see, the plot focuses on
> a sub-class of Romulan society called the Remans. If you recall, the
> Romulan Star Empire has, at the center of its government, two planets
> called Romulus and Remus. We've seen Romulus several times over the years,
> but never Remus (well, except for in some of the non-canon novels). The
> Remans, as we learn, are a slave class, forced to live underground in caves
> as miners. Exposed to radiation, removed from sunlight, they are pale and
> distorted -- picture Spock meets Nosferatu, and you get the picture. Well,
> 25 years before "Nemesis," the Romulans hatched a plot to clone Picard,
> then an up-and-coming officer, and replace him with the clone, thereby
> giving them a moll inside Starfleet. When internal troubles (as alluded to
> in the first-season episode "Neutral Zone") became more important, that
> plan and many others were abandoned, and the Picard clone was sent to live
> in the mines as a slave -- waste-not-want-not, after all. The Remans,
> seeing a chance some day to use the discarded plot to their own advantage,
> reared the clone, whom they named Shinzon, as their own. Fast-forward to
> the time of Nemesis, and we come to the plan's fruition -- the Remans have
> staged an all-out coup, killing the Romulan Senate and taking control of
> the Empire. They're determined not only to conquer their Romulan
> overlords, but the galaxy at large (I guess squatting in caves makes you a
> bit melodramatic after a while... maybe that explains Osama Bin Laden).
> Having reared him for this day for two decades, the Remans place Shinzon in
> the center-seat, with a Reman Viceroy to watch over and advise him.
> Enterprise, of course, is sent in, and we have Old Picard-vs. Young Picard.
> The script is quite powerful and should play out well on-screen --
> especially with Ron Perlamn playing the Viceroy. The guy playing the
> younger Picard (I forget his name at the moment) looks a lot like Patrick
> Stewart and is a very good actor. And the Reman make-up is brilliant. A
> cool sub-plot, by the way, involves Data finding a "lost brother" named
> B-9, who is a simpleton with a fraction of Data's intelligence.

>
> Remember that Schaffner knew how to get out of Goldsmith what he wanted. A
> lot of the mood that PLANET has is in that music. BENEATH would feel like a
> very different movie if Goldsmith had done the music -- which I wish he had.
>
> -- Rory

I think that the mood in BENEATH is closer to PLANET than it is to the mood in
the later 3 movies. But I agree that PLANET has a little different mood than
the sequels, especially the last three, and that the soundtrack contributes to
this. However the PLANET soundtrack itself is my least favorite. I don't
listen to it much. My favorite main title music is in order ESCAPE (also
Goldsmith?), BATTLE, CONQUEST, BENEATH, and with PLANET last.

What makes you think so????

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> I think James likes "Patton", don't you? - - Jeff

Attachments :

.htmlIn a message dated 9/6/02 12:37:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

What makes you think so????

                       

             When James sticks his hand into a bunch of goo....

                      he knows he's crapped his pants again!
<.html

Well that's bound to happen when your office collapses into a pile
of rubble in front of you.

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> When James sticks his hand into a bunch of goo....
>
> he knows he's crapped his pants again!

.htmlHey, James. . . . I thought you might find this interesting.  This is the actual speech that Patton gave before the invasion of France.  The one at the beginning of the movie is a cleaned up version!


General Patton arose and strode swiftly to the microphone. The men snapped to their feet and stood silently. Patton surveyed the sea of brown with a grim look. "Be seated", he said. The words were not a request, but a command. The General's voice rose high and clear.

"Men, this stuff that some sources sling around about America wanting out of this war, not wanting to fight, is a crock of bullshit. Americans love to fight, traditionally. All real Americans love the sting and clash of battle. You are here today for three reasons. First, because you are here to defend your homes and your loved ones. Second, you are here for your own self respect, because you would not want to be anywhere else. Third, you are here because you are real men and all real men like to fight. When you, here, everyone of you, were kids, you all admired the champion marble player, the fastest runner, the toughest boxer, the big league ball players, and the All-American football players. Americans love a winner. Americans will not tolerate a loser. Americans despise cowards. Americans play to win all of the time. I wouldn't give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed. That's why Americans have never lost nor will ever lose a war; for the very idea of losing is hateful to an American."

The General paused and looked over the crowd. "You are not all going to die," he said slowly. "Only two percent of you right here today would die in a major battle. Death must not be feared. Death, in time, comes to all men. Yes, every man is scared in his first battle. If he says he's not, he's a liar. Some men are cowards but they fight the same as the brave men or they get the hell slammed out of them watching men fight who are just as scared as they are. The real hero is the man who fights even though he is scared. Some men get over their fright in a minute under fire. For some, it takes an hour. For some, it takes days. But a real man will never let his fear of death overpower his honor, his sense of duty to his country, and his innate manhood. Battle is the most magnificent competition in which a human being can indulge. It brings out all that is best and it removes all that is base. Americans pride themselves on being He Men and they ARE He Men. Remember that the enemy is just as frightened as you are, and probably more so. They are not supermen."

"All through your Army careers, you men have bitched about what you call "chicken shit drilling". That, like everything else in this Army, has a definite purpose. That purpose is alertness. Alertness must be bred into every soldier. I don't give a fuck for a man who's not always on his toes. You men are veterans or you wouldn't be here. You are ready for what's to come. A man must be alert at all times if he expects to stay alive. If you're not alert, sometime, a German son-of-an-asshole-bitch is going to sneak up behind you and beat you to death with a sockful of shit!" The men roared in agreement.

Patton's grim expression did not change. "There are four hundred neatly marked graves somewhere in Sicily", he roared into the microphone, "All because one man went to sleep on the job". He paused and the men grew silent. "But they are German graves, because we caught the bastard asleep before they did". The General clutched the microphone tightly, his jaw out-thrust, and he continued, "An Army is a team. It lives, sleeps, eats, and fights as a team. This individual heroic stuff is pure horse shit. The bilious bastards who write that kind of stuff for the Saturday Evening Post don't know any more about real fighting under fire than they know about fucking!"

The men slapped their legs and rolled in glee. This was Patton as the men had imagined him to be, and in rare form, too. He hadn't let them down. He was all that he was cracked up to be, and more. He had IT!

"We have the finest food, the finest equipment, the best spirit, and the best men in the world", Patton bellowed. He lowered his head and shook it pensively. Suddenly he snapped erect, faced the men belligerently and thundered, "Why, by God, I actually pity those poor sons-of-bitches we're going up against. By God, I do". The men clapped and howled delightedly. There would be many a barracks tale about the "Old Man's" choice phrases. They would become part and parcel of Third Army's history and they would become the bible of their slang.

"My men don't surrender", Patton continued, "I don't want to hear of any soldier under my command being captured unless he has been hit. Even if you are hit, you can still fight back. That's not just bull shit either. The kind of man that I want in my command is just like the lieutenant in Libya, who, with a Luger against his chest, jerked off his helmet, swept the gun aside with one hand, and busted the hell out of the Kraut with his helmet. Then he jumped on the gun and went out and killed another German before they knew what the hell was coming off. And, all of that time, this man had a bullet through a lung. There was a real man!"

Patton stopped and the crowd waited. He continued more quietly, "All of the real heroes are not storybook combat fighters, either. Every single man in this Army plays a vital role. Don't ever let up. Don't ever think that your job is unimportant. Every man has a job to do and he must do it. Every man is a vital link in the great chain. What if every truck driver suddenly decided that he didn't like the whine of those shells overhead, turned yellow, and jumped headlong into a ditch? The cowardly bastard could say, "Hell, they won't miss me, just one man in thousands". But, what if every man thought that way? Where in the hell would we be now? What would our country, our loved ones, our homes, even the world, be like? No, Goddamnit, Americans don't think like that. Every man does his job. Every man serves the whole. Every department, every unit, is important in the vast scheme of this war. The ordnance men are needed to supply the guns and machinery of war to keep us rolling. The Quartermaster is needed to bring up food and clothes because where we are going there isn't a hell of a lot to steal. Every last man on K.P. has a job to do, even the one who heats our water to keep us from getting the 'G.I. Shits'."

Patton paused, took a deep breath, and continued, "Each man must not think only of himself, but also of his buddy fighting beside him. We don't want yellow cowards in this Army. They should be killed off like rats. If not, they will go home after this war and breed more cowards. The brave men will breed more brave men. Kill off the Goddamned cowards and we will have a nation of brave men. One of the bravest men that I ever saw was a fellow on top of a telegraph pole in the midst of a furious fire fight in Tunisia. I stopped and asked what the hell he was doing up there at a time like that. He answered, "Fixing the wire, Sir". I asked, "Isn't that a little unhealthy right about now?" He answered, "Yes Sir, but the Goddamned wire has to be fixed". I asked, "Don't those planes strafing the road bother you?" And he answered, "No, Sir, but you sure as hell do!" Now, there was a real man. A real soldier. There was a man who devoted all he had to his duty, no matter how seemingly insignificant his duty might appear at the time, no matter how great the odds. And you should have seen those trucks on the rode to Tunisia. Those drivers were magnificent. All day and all night they rolled over those son-of-a-bitching roads, never stopping, never faltering from their course, with shells bursting all around them all of the time. We got through on good old American guts. Many of those men drove for over forty consecutive hours. These men weren't combat men, but they were soldiers with a job to do. They did it, and in one hell of a way they did it. They were part of a team. Without team effort, without them, the fight would have been lost. All of the links in the chain pulled together and the chain became unbreakable."

The General paused and stared challengingly over the silent ocean of men. One could have heard a pin drop anywhere on that vast hillside. The only sound was the stirring of the breeze in the leaves of the bordering trees and the busy chirping of the birds in the branches of the trees at the General's left.

"Don't forget," Patton barked, "you men don't know that I'm here. No mention of that fact is to be made in any letters. The world is not supposed to know what the hell happened to me. I'm not supposed to be commanding this Army. I'm not even supposed to be here in England. Let the first bastards to find out be the Goddamned Germans. Some day I want to see them raise up on their piss-soaked hind legs and howl, 'Jesus Christ, it's the Goddamned Third Army again and that son-of-a-fucking-bitch Patton'."

"We want to get the hell over there", Patton continued, "The quicker we clean up this Goddamned mess, the quicker we can take a little jaunt against the purple pissing Japs and clean out their nest, too. Before the Goddamned Marines get all of the credit."

The men roared approval and cheered delightedly. This statement had real significance behind it. Much more than met the eye and the men instinctively sensed the fact. They knew that they themselves were going to play a very great part in the making of world history. They were being told as much right now. Deep sincerity and seriousness lay behind the General's colorful words. The men knew and understood it. They loved the way he put it, too, as only he could.

Patton continued quietly, "Sure, we want to go home. We want this war over with. The quickest way to get it over with is to go get the bastards who started it. The quicker they are whipped, the quicker we can go home. The shortest way home is through Berlin and Tokyo. And when we get to Berlin", he yelled, "I am personally going to shoot that paper hanging son-of-a-bitch Hitler. Just like I'd shoot a snake!"

"When a man is lying in a shell hole, if he just stays there all day, a German will get to him eventually. The hell with that idea. The hell with taking it. My men don't dig foxholes. I don't want them to. Foxholes only slow up an offensive. Keep moving. And don't give the enemy time to dig one either. We'll win this war, but we'll win it only by fighting and by showing the Germans that we've got more guts than they have; or ever will have. We're not going to just shoot the sons-of-bitches, we're going to rip out their living Goddamned guts and use them to grease the treads of our tanks. We're going to murder those lousy Hun cocksuckers by the bushel-fucking-basket. War is a bloody, killing business. You've got to spill their blood, or they will spill yours. Rip them up the belly. Shoot them in the guts. When shells are hitting all around you and you wipe the dirt off your face and realize that instead of dirt it's the blood and guts of what once was your best friend beside you, you'll know what to do!"

"I don't want to get any messages saying, "I am holding my position." We are not holding a Goddamned thing. Let the Germans do that. We are advancing constantly and we are not interested in holding onto anything, except the enemy's balls. We are going to twist his balls and kick the living shit out of him all of the time. Our basic plan of operation is to advance and to keep on advancing regardless of whether we have to go over, under, or through the enemy. We are going to go through him like crap through a goose; like shit through a tin horn!"

"From time to time there will be some complaints that we are pushing our people too hard. I don't give a good Goddamn about such complaints. I believe in the old and sound rule that an ounce of sweat will save a gallon of blood. The harder WE push, the more Germans we will kill. The more Germans we kill, the fewer of our men will be killed. Pushing means fewer casualties. I want you all to remember that."

The General paused. His eagle like eyes swept over the hillside. He said with pride, "There is one great thing that you men will all be able to say after this war is over and you are home once again. You may be thankful that twenty years from now when you are sitting by the fireplace with your grandson on your knee and he asks you what you did in the great World War II, you WON'T have to cough, shift him to the other knee and say, "Well, your Granddaddy shoveled shit in Louisiana." No, Sir, you can look him straight in the eye and say, "Son, your Granddaddy rode with the Great Third Army and a Son-of-a-Goddamned-Bitch named Georgie Patton!"

<.html

Cool Rory. Thanks!!!

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> Hey, James. . . . I thought you might find this interesting. This
is the
> actual speech that Patton gave before the invasion of France. The
one at the
> beginning of the movie is a cleaned up version!
>
>
> General Patton arose and strode swiftly to the microphone. The men
snapped to
> their feet and stood silently. Patton surveyed the sea of brown
with a grim
> look. "Be seated", he said. The words were not a request, but a
command. The
> General's voice rose high and clear.
>
> "Men, this stuff that some sources sling around about America
wanting out of
> this war, not wanting to fight, is a crock of bullshit. Americans
love to
> fight, traditionally. All real Americans love the sting and clash
of battle.
> You are here today for three reasons. First, because you are here
to defend
> your homes and your loved ones. Second, you are here for your own
self
> respect, because you would not want to be anywhere else. Third,
you are here
> because you are real men and all real men like to fight. When you,
here,
> everyone of you, were kids, you all admired the champion marble
player, the
> fastest runner, the toughest boxer, the big league ball players,
and the
> All-American football players. Americans love a winner. Americans
will not
> tolerate a loser. Americans despise cowards. Americans play to win
all of the
> time. I wouldn't give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and
laughed. That's
> why Americans have never lost nor will ever lose a war; for the
very idea of
> losing is hateful to an American."
>
> The General paused and looked over the crowd. "You are not all
going to die,"
> he said slowly. "Only two percent of you right here today would
die in a
> major battle. Death must not be feared. Death, in time, comes to
all men.
> Yes, every man is scared in his first battle. If he says he's not,
he's a
> liar. Some men are cowards but they fight the same as the brave
men or they
> get the hell slammed out of them watching men fight who are just
as scared as
> they are. The real hero is the man who fights even though he is
scared. Some
> men get over their fright in a minute under fire. For some, it
takes an hour.
> For some, it takes days. But a real man will never let his fear of
death
> overpower his honor, his sense of duty to his country, and his
innate
> manhood. Battle is the most magnificent competition in which a
human being
> can indulge. It brings out all that is best and it removes all
that is base.
> Americans pride themselves on being He Men and they ARE He Men.
Remember that
> the enemy is just as frightened as you are, and probably more so.
They are
> not supermen."
>
> "All through your Army careers, you men have bitched about what
you call
> "chicken shit drilling". That, like everything else in this Army,
has a
> definite purpose. That purpose is alertness. Alertness must be
bred into
> every soldier. I don't give a fuck for a man who's not always on
his toes.
> You men are veterans or you wouldn't be here. You are ready for
what's to
> come. A man must be alert at all times if he expects to stay
alive. If you're
> not alert, sometime, a German son-of-an-asshole-bitch is going to
sneak up
> behind you and beat you to death with a sockful of shit!" The men
roared in
> agreement.
>
> Patton's grim expression did not change. "There are four hundred
neatly
> marked graves somewhere in Sicily", he roared into the
microphone, "All
> because one man went to sleep on the job". He paused and the men
grew silent.
> "But they are German graves, because we caught the bastard asleep
before they
> did". The General clutched the microphone tightly, his jaw out-
thrust, and he
> continued, "An Army is a team. It lives, sleeps, eats, and fights
as a team.
> This individual heroic stuff is pure horse shit. The bilious
bastards who
> write that kind of stuff for the Saturday Evening Post don't know
any more
> about real fighting under fire than they know about fucking!"
>
> The men slapped their legs and rolled in glee. This was Patton as
the men had
> imagined him to be, and in rare form, too. He hadn't let them
down. He was
> all that he was cracked up to be, and more. He had IT!
>
> "We have the finest food, the finest equipment, the best spirit,
and the best
> men in the world", Patton bellowed. He lowered his head and shook
it
> pensively. Suddenly he snapped erect, faced the men belligerently
and
> thundered, "Why, by God, I actually pity those poor sons-of-
bitches we're
> going up against. By God, I do". The men clapped and howled
delightedly.
> There would be many a barracks tale about the "Old Man's" choice
phrases.
> They would become part and parcel of Third Army's history and they
would
> become the bible of their slang.
>
> "My men don't surrender", Patton continued, "I don't want to hear
of any
> soldier under my command being captured unless he has been hit.
Even if you
> are hit, you can still fight back. That's not just bull shit
either. The kind
> of man that I want in my command is just like the lieutenant in
Libya, who,
> with a Luger against his chest, jerked off his helmet, swept the
gun aside
> with one hand, and busted the hell out of the Kraut with his
helmet. Then he
> jumped on the gun and went out and killed another German before
they knew
> what the hell was coming off. And, all of that time, this man had
a bullet
> through a lung. There was a real man!"
>
> Patton stopped and the crowd waited. He continued more
quietly, "All of the
> real heroes are not storybook combat fighters, either. Every
single man in
> this Army plays a vital role. Don't ever let up. Don't ever think
that your
> job is unimportant. Every man has a job to do and he must do it.
Every man is
> a vital link in the great chain. What if every truck driver
suddenly decided
> that he didn't like the whine of those shells overhead, turned
yellow, and
> jumped headlong into a ditch? The cowardly bastard could
say, "Hell, they
> won't miss me, just one man in thousands". But, what if every man
thought
> that way? Where in the hell would we be now? What would our
country, our
> loved ones, our homes, even the world, be like? No, Goddamnit,
Americans
> don't think like that. Every man does his job. Every man serves
the whole.
> Every department, every unit, is important in the vast scheme of
this war.
> The ordnance men are needed to supply the guns and machinery of
war to keep
> us rolling. The Quartermaster is needed to bring up food and
clothes because
> where we are going there isn't a hell of a lot to steal. Every
last man on
> K.P. has a job to do, even the one who heats our water to keep us
from
> getting the 'G.I. Shits'."
>
> Patton paused, took a deep breath, and continued, "Each man must
not think
> only of himself, but also of his buddy fighting beside him. We
don't want
> yellow cowards in this Army. They should be killed off like rats.
If not,
> they will go home after this war and breed more cowards. The brave
men will
> breed more brave men. Kill off the Goddamned cowards and we will
have a
> nation of brave men. One of the bravest men that I ever saw was a
fellow on
> top of a telegraph pole in the midst of a furious fire fight in
Tunisia. I
> stopped and asked what the hell he was doing up there at a time
like that. He
> answered, "Fixing the wire, Sir". I asked, "Isn't that a little
unhealthy
> right about now?" He answered, "Yes Sir, but the Goddamned wire
has to be
> fixed". I asked, "Don't those planes strafing the road bother
you?" And he
> answered, "No, Sir, but you sure as hell do!" Now, there was a
real man. A
> real soldier. There was a man who devoted all he had to his duty,
no matter
> how seemingly insignificant his duty might appear at the time, no
matter how
> great the odds. And you should have seen those trucks on the rode
to Tunisia.
> Those drivers were magnificent. All day and all night they rolled
over those
> son-of-a-bitching roads, never stopping, never faltering from
their course,
> with shells bursting all around them all of the time. We got
through on good
> old American guts. Many of those men drove for over forty
consecutive hours.
> These men weren't combat men, but they were soldiers with a job to
do. They
> did it, and in one hell of a way they did it. They were part of a
team.
> Without team effort, without them, the fight would have been lost.
All of the
> links in the chain pulled together and the chain became
unbreakable."
>
> The General paused and stared challengingly over the silent ocean
of men. One
> could have heard a pin drop anywhere on that vast hillside. The
only sound
> was the stirring of the breeze in the leaves of the bordering
trees and the
> busy chirping of the birds in the branches of the trees at the
General's
> left.
>
> "Don't forget," Patton barked, "you men don't know that I'm here.
No mention
> of that fact is to be made in any letters. The world is not
supposed to know
> what the hell happened to me. I'm not supposed to be commanding
this Army.
> I'm not even supposed to be here in England. Let the first
bastards to find
> out be the Goddamned Germans. Some day I want to see them raise up
on their
> piss-soaked hind legs and howl, 'Jesus Christ, it's the Goddamned
Third Army
> again and that son-of-a-fucking-bitch Patton'."
>
> "We want to get the hell over there", Patton continued, "The
quicker we clean
> up this Goddamned mess, the quicker we can take a little jaunt
against the
> purple pissing Japs and clean out their nest, too. Before the
Goddamned
> Marines get all of the credit."
>
> The men roared approval and cheered delightedly. This statement
had real
> significance behind it. Much more than met the eye and the men
instinctively
> sensed the fact. They knew that they themselves were going to play
a very
> great part in the making of world history. They were being told as
much right
> now. Deep sincerity and seriousness lay behind the General's
colorful words.
> The men knew and understood it. They loved the way he put it, too,
as only he
> could.
>
> Patton continued quietly, "Sure, we want to go home. We want this
war over
> with. The quickest way to get it over with is to go get the
bastards who
> started it. The quicker they are whipped, the quicker we can go
home. The
> shortest way home is through Berlin and Tokyo. And when we get to
Berlin", he
> yelled, "I am personally going to shoot that paper hanging son-of-
a-bitch Hi
> tler. Just like I'd shoot a snake!"
>
> "When a man is lying in a shell hole, if he just stays there all
day, a
> German will get to him eventually. The hell with that idea. The
hell with
> taking it. My men don't dig foxholes. I don't want them to.
Foxholes only
> slow up an offensive. Keep moving. And don't give the enemy time
to dig one
> either. We'll win this war, but we'll win it only by fighting and
by showing
> the Germans that we've got more guts than they have; or ever will
have. We're
> not going to just shoot the sons-of-bitches, we're going to rip
out their
> living Goddamned guts and use them to grease the treads of our
tanks. We're
> going to murder those lousy Hun cocksuckers by the bushel-fucking-
basket. War
> is a bloody, killing business. You've got to spill their blood, or
they will
> spill yours. Rip them up the belly. Shoot them in the guts. When
shells are
> hitting all around you and you wipe the dirt off your face and
realize that
> instead of dirt it's the blood and guts of what once was your best
friend
> beside you, you'll know what to do!"
>
> "I don't want to get any messages saying, "I am holding my
position." We are
> not holding a Goddamned thing. Let the Germans do that. We are
advancing
> constantly and we are not interested in holding onto anything,
except the
> enemy's balls. We are going to twist his balls and kick the living
shit out
> of him all of the time. Our basic plan of operation is to advance
and to keep
> on advancing regardless of whether we have to go over, under, or
through the
> enemy. We are going to go through him like crap through a goose;
like shit
> through a tin horn!"
>
> "From time to time there will be some complaints that we are
pushing our
> people too hard. I don't give a good Goddamn about such
complaints. I believe
> in the old and sound rule that an ounce of sweat will save a
gallon of blood.
> The harder WE push, the more Germans we will kill. The more
Germans we kill,
> the fewer of our men will be killed. Pushing means fewer
casualties. I want
> you all to remember that."
>
> The General paused. His eagle like eyes swept over the hillside.
He said with
> pride, "There is one great thing that you men will all be able to
say after
> this war is over and you are home once again. You may be thankful
that twenty
> years from now when you are sitting by the fireplace with your
grandson on
> your knee and he asks you what you did in the great World War II,
you WON'T
> have to cough, shift him to the other knee and say, "Well, your
Granddaddy
> shoveled shit in Louisiana." No, Sir, you can look him straight in
the eye
> and say, "Son, your Granddaddy rode with the Great Third Army and
a
> Son-of-a-Goddamned-Bitch named Georgie Patton!"

I've actually never seen Gallipoli. Does that make me a bad Aussie?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony B. McElveen" <abmac@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] What are they waiting 4? (OT)


> I saw Gallipoli and quite enjoyed it. Not all Americans think the world
> ceases to exist outside our borders.
>
> Anthony B. McElveen
>
> On Thursday, September 5, 2002, at 06:27 PM, whitty@...
> wrote:
>
> > Gallipoli, but I don't imagine anyone but myself and Ken Taylor saw
> > that film from this group
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

 .html

----- Original Message -----

From: veetus@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 12:30 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] What are they waiting 4? (OT)

  Mel's younger than Harrison Ford, who will play Indiana Jones again AND is dating Ally McBeal. - - Jeff

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 8:13 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] What are they waiting 4? (OT)

In a message dated 9/5/02 11:11:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Haristas@... writes:

He thinks they're dumb flicks and he's now an Academy Award winning director and all that.  

Mel's also too old!


Movie News
Miller talks on slim chance for MAD MAX 4
Well, he gave us three great action flicks
Dateline: Thursday, September 5, 2002

By: CHRISTOPHER ALLAN SMITH
By: News Editor
Source: EMPIRE, via Moviehole

George Miller is chiming in on what seem to be quarterly teases for the possible MAD MAX 4 movie. What's the latest news? Not promising.

"I'm excited by it, but that's about all I can say," he said in an interview with Australia's EMPIRE magazine. "I never, ever intended on doing another one, but the story came to me and has struck like a dog in the back of my brain - it hung on and it wouldn't let go".

So when can fans expect the long awaited return of Mel Gibson as the warrior of the wastelands? Well, that's where things get hazy. According to the report, Miller is holding out hope Gibson communicates, "says 'yes he'll come back." Which hasn't happened yet. Hell, it's only been 17 years since the last one.








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Attachments :

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: veetus@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 12:42 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] What are they waiting 4? (OT)

  Even "Episode 3" isn't assured. What if Lucas dies? Or becomes an alcoholic? Nothing's a sure thing. Nor can anything be ruled out. "Tron 2"? Who saw that coming? What's next, "Revenge of the Dark Crystal"? - - - Jeff

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 5:14 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] What are they waiting 4? (OT)

In a message dated 9/5/02 7:14:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, whitty@... writes:

That's Rory's standard line to ANY talk of a sequel...hell, he'd say
there will be no MIB 3!!!!

All I do is just sit still for a moment and try to get a feel for the thing from all I know about the movie.  I actually don't think there will be a MIB 3.  Why?  Because although the sequel has made a lot of money, it bombed with the fans and the critics, Tommy Lee Jones probably feels he's getting to old for this shit, the director knows he's tapped out for ideas, and Will Smith is getting a head larger than the moon these days now that he's an "Academy Award nominated best actor."  So, no, I don't think there will be a MIB 3.
There will also be NO sequel to SIGNS.  Movies like SIGNS, no matter how much money they make, don't get sequels.  Are you still waiting for the sequel to E.T.?
          
            "That man Rory is almost as clever as an Ape!"
            "Whitty?  He is a nuisance.  He he up his food supplies
              in the kitchen, then pops out more kids with his mate.
              The sooner they are fixed the better!"


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Getting close - 3 nights in a row of very little sleep thanks to my kids.

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: james611102 [JamesA1102@...]
> Sent: Friday, 6 September 2002 16:11
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] What If?
>
>
> Thank God I thought you had lost your mind.
>
> --- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > I agree - sorry, that was a TYPO!!
> >
> > Michael

Not really.

"Welcome to the world of Astronaut George Taylor. A bitter, hard man,
driven by the desire to escape the world of his past on Earth. Into the
stars he ventures, knowing of a theory that means he will never return to
the Earth of his own time, but to an Earth where everyone he knew is long
dead.." etc, etc

> -----Original Message-----
> From: veetus@... [veetus@...]
> Sent: Friday, 6 September 2002 23:26
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] What If?
>
>
> But then people would have been anticipating the ending. Etc. - - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 11:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] What If?
>
>
> > OK That make much more sense. I've often thought of POTA as a big
> > Twilight Zone episode. All that's missing is Serling at the
> > beginning saying 'Submitted for your approval; Astronaut George
> > Taylor...etc.".
> >
> > --- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > > Yo guessed it - I have had little sleep. Replace "Spielberg"
> > > with "Serling".
> > >
> > > Michael
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

>
>

I think the nerdy, die hard fans contribute a lot to it as well!

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Melkor [melkor@...]
> Sent: Saturday, 7 September 2002 1:21
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Star Trek, Alien, and Apes (partly OT)

I think a big reason that the Trek movie franchise has lasted so long is
that they

> manage to make a pretty good movie every other time (all the even numbered
> movies).

I think Ken hates MIB 2.

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: james611102 [JamesA1102@...]
> Sent: Saturday, 7 September 2002 2:37
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] What If?
>
>
> What makes you think so????
>
> --- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> > I think James likes "Patton", don't you? - - Jeff

Yes it does.

And you probably designed the cover for the video too...SHAME!

Say 4 Hail Marys and spank yourelf with a long sharp stick.

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken and Heather Taylor [ktaylor@...]
> Sent: Saturday, 7 September 2002 6:51
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] What are they waiting 4? (OT)
>
>
> I've actually never seen Gallipoli. Does that make me a bad Aussie?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Anthony B. McElveen" <abmac@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 11:08 AM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] What are they waiting 4? (OT)
>
>
> > I saw Gallipoli and quite enjoyed it. Not all Americans think the world
> > ceases to exist outside our borders.
> >
> > Anthony B. McElveen
> >
> > On Thursday, September 5, 2002, at 06:27 PM, whitty@...
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Gallipoli, but I don't imagine anyone but myself and Ken Taylor saw
> > > that film from this group
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

>
>

.html .html

----- Original Message -----

From: veetus@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 12:30 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] What are they waiting 4? (OT)

  Mel's younger than Harrison Ford, who will play Indiana Jones again AND is dating Ally McBeal. - - Jeff

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 8:13 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] What are they waiting 4? (OT)

In a message dated 9/5/02 11:11:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Haristas@... writes:

He thinks they're dumb flicks and he's now an Academy Award winning director and all that.  

Mel's also too old!


Movie News
Miller talks on slim chance for MAD MAX 4
Well, he gave us three great action flicks
Dateline: Thursday, September 5, 2002

By: CHRISTOPHER ALLAN SMITH
By: News Editor
Source: EMPIRE, via Moviehole

George Miller is chiming in on what seem to be quarterly teases for the possible MAD MAX 4 movie. What’s the latest news? Not promising.

"I'm excited by it, but that's about all I can say,” he said in an interview with Australia’s EMPIRE magazine. “I never, ever intended on doing another one, but the story came to me and has struck like a dog in the back of my brain - it hung on and it wouldn't let go".

So when can fans expect the long awaited return of Mel Gibson as the warrior of the wastelands? Well, that’s where things get hazy. According to the report, Miller is holding out hope Gibson communicates, “says 'yes he'll come back.” Which hasn’t happened yet. Hell, it’s only been 17 years since the last one.








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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .
<.html <.html

Attachments :

.htmlIt would be cool to see at least a few the apes wearing the same style suits from the original.

Speaking of the original style suits . . .
Here's pics of the jacket from my Halloween costume from 7th grade.  Special thanks to my Mom for her sewing skills.  I cut out the symbols for the glyphs which are stuffed & sewed to give it the look and feel of hand tooled rich Corinthian leather.  My foam rubber skills weren't up to snuff back then, so I just covered the sculpted clay with latex and glued it to my face. So for those who don't like foam rubber on your face try wearing over a pound of clay on your face!





<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/6/02 6:00:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, whitty@... writes:

I think Ken hates MIB 2.

I'll probably rent that when it comes to DVD.  This weekend I plan on renting BLADE II.

It's all about entertaining oneself, don't you know.

-- Rory<.html

Attachments :

.htmlIn a message dated 9/6/02 6:02:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, whitty@... writes:

Yes it does.

And you probably designed the cover for the video too...SHAME!

Well, here's the cover here in the States, and as you can see it's a Paramount release, so Ken Taylor wouldn't have had anything to do with it.  On the other hand, Mel does look a little gay there!




<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 9:44 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] What If?

In a message dated 9/6/02 6:00:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, whitty@... writes:

I think Ken hates MIB 2.

I'll probably rent that when it comes to DVD.  This weekend I plan on renting BLADE II.

It's all about entertaining oneself, don't you know.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

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Attachments :

.htmlIn a message dated 9/6/02 6:35:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

Speaking of the original style suits . . .
Here's pics of the jacket from my Halloween costume from 7th grade.  Special thanks to my Mom for her sewing skills.  I cut out the symbols for the glyphs which are stuffed & sewed to give it the look and feel of hand tooled rich Corinthian leather.  My foam rubber skills weren't up to snuff back then, so I just covered the sculpted clay with latex and glued it to my face. So for those who don't like foam rubber on your face try wearing over a pound of clay on your face!

Man, that's a pretty damn good job there, T.   It would make Morton Haack proud.  Better than the one my grandmother made for me in '71.  I'll have to find that photo of me on Halloween, but I don't know if it's still around. 

-- Rory <.html

Attachments :

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 8:33 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Star Trek, Alien, and Apes (partly OT)

It would be cool to see at least a few the apes wearing the same style suits from the original.

Speaking of the original style suits . . .
Here's pics of the jacket from my Halloween costume from 7th grade.  Special thanks to my Mom for her sewing skills.  I cut out the symbols for the glyphs which are stuffed & sewed to give it the look and feel of hand tooled rich Corinthian leather.  My foam rubber skills weren't up to snuff back then, so I just covered the sculpted clay with latex and glued it to my face. So for those who don't like foam rubber on your face try wearing over a pound of clay on your face!







Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/6/02 7:54:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ktaylor@... writes:

It'll make you go blind Rory!

Are you talking about spanking the monkey?!!!  Too late, I got my cane and dark glasses years ago.

<.html

Attachments :

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 9:51 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] What are they waiting 4? (OT)

In a message dated 9/6/02 6:02:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, whitty@... writes:

Yes it does.

And you probably designed the cover for the video too...SHAME!

Well, here's the cover here in the States, and as you can see it's a Paramount release, so Ken Taylor wouldn't have had anything to do with it.  On the other hand, Mel does look a little gay there!






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<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/6/02 8:02:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ktaylor@... writes:

I had you in mind when I designed it Rory!

Touche!


You keep your hands off my touche, you nasty Aussie man YOU!<.html

.htmlI originally thought you had it mounted in a glass cabinet but I see it's in your shower. Most people would settle for some shells or a small fern to decorate their bathrooms.

That's my folks bathroom.  I took the pic there because it's next to the closet.  She keeps it at their place.  I'm not sure she trusts me with it, and not just because it's her kid's Halloween costume.  I think she's pretty proud of her work on that one -- rightfully so.  <.html

.htmlI just happened to look up some comments on BENEATH at IMDb.com, and this is the most recent below.

We need to get this person into the group.
Comments index for Beneath the Planet of the Apes (1970)

SBMag (fah357r@...)
Stockholm´s Administrative Province, Sweden

Date: 31 August 2002
Summary: Beneath the Planet of the Apes, a chocking follow-up classicer

In Sweden, where I live, in a channel named TV4, they have been viewed every seven(It was seven, although some people say It´s just five), movies, once in a week, and i have recorded every each except the 1:st, which I´ve seen about a year ago, and when i saw the 2:nd movie in that leed, well i´ve liked it, but it was chocking on the same way, from the "underneath-the-mask-freak-looking" humans in the isolated underground, to the horrible end, but i mean, it was good, it was pretty coosy like the 1:st movie in some point of views(bright sky, the nice chimpanzees with the pleasant voices from Zira and Cornelius and that), and in general, it was a good movie, it is a good movie, nice chasing on horses, good make-up.I know that some people don´t agree with me about the plotline, but i think it was pretty good summer, history or what you call it, and the end, it is..it is.. acceptable.. Some hate it, but i think its rather okey, it was good, but tragic. Another thing i liked about the movie is that it´s not a ordinary follow-up, its wery independent of the first movie, some of the characters talk about things that happened in the first movie i.e, the chimpanzees put good words about Colonel Taylor. Let me just say this folks, if you dont want to see this movie, then you can just skip seeing any of the follow-ups, because this movie is more like the 1:st then any of the other movies´in that leed I´ve seen yet plus that you understand much better when you watch later movies in the "planet of the apes-pack" Thanks, and please excuse my not perfect english and little spelling problems, I´m working on it, i´ve just read english in seven years.

<.html

Well, the "Alien" franchise isn't finished because Fox's next big project
is "Alien vs. Predator", directed by the guy who did "Resident Evil" (I
guess they consider it a video game movie, not an "Alien" movie). As for
"Star Trek", even the cast is confused; I guess it's being promoted as the
"final" "Next Gen" adventure. I don't think "Deep Space 9" or "Voyager" will
warrant movies. And I think any future "Apes" movie will not include Tim
Burton. Both he and Fox seem to have admitted the pairing was a mistake.
Unlike a lot of people, though, I liked the visuals (except Ape City) and
think an "Apes" movie can be totally divorced from the originals as long as
the script is good. I'd like a version of the book. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Melkor" <melkor@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 8:20 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Star Trek, Alien, and Apes (partly OT)


>
> This Star Trek plot has the potential to be one of the best Trek movies.
We
> won't know for sure until the movie comes out though. I think a big
reason
> that the Trek movie franchise has lasted so long is that they manage to
make a
> pretty good movie every other time (all the even numbered movies).
Perhaps
> Paramount knows that if they make 2 or 3 movies in a row as awful as the
> last movie or Star Trek 5 was then the franchise is sunk.
>
> I still think 2 bad movies in a row is what ruined the Alien franchise and
> the worst thing that could happen to the POTA franchise is to rush out
> a new movie as bad as POTA 2001. I hope they do make more POTA movies
but
> I hope they dump Burton and carefully consider what made the 5 earlier
films
> so popular. No dark and/or red Wizard of Oz crap. It would be cool to
> see at least a few the apes wearing the same style suits from the
original.
>
>
>
> > I can answer this, having read the script as part of my job. However,
so
> > as not to spoil it for anyone why doesn't want to know, here's some
spoiler
> > space...
> >
> >
> > and some more...
> >
> >
> > and some more...
> >
> >
> > and some more...
> >
> >
> > and some more...
> >
> >
> > and some more...
> >
> >
> > and some more...
> >
> >
> > The villain of Star Trek: Nemesis is Picard! You see, the plot focuses
on
> > a sub-class of Romulan society called the Remans. If you recall, the
> > Romulan Star Empire has, at the center of its government, two planets
> > called Romulus and Remus. We've seen Romulus several times over the
years,
> > but never Remus (well, except for in some of the non-canon novels). The
> > Remans, as we learn, are a slave class, forced to live underground in
caves
> > as miners. Exposed to radiation, removed from sunlight, they are pale
and
> > distorted -- picture Spock meets Nosferatu, and you get the picture.
Well,
> > 25 years before "Nemesis," the Romulans hatched a plot to clone Picard,
> > then an up-and-coming officer, and replace him with the clone, thereby
> > giving them a moll inside Starfleet. When internal troubles (as alluded
to
> > in the first-season episode "Neutral Zone") became more important, that
> > plan and many others were abandoned, and the Picard clone was sent to
live
> > in the mines as a slave -- waste-not-want-not, after all. The Remans,
> > seeing a chance some day to use the discarded plot to their own
advantage,
> > reared the clone, whom they named Shinzon, as their own. Fast-forward
to
> > the time of Nemesis, and we come to the plan's fruition -- the Remans
have
> > staged an all-out coup, killing the Romulan Senate and taking control of
> > the Empire. They're determined not only to conquer their Romulan
> > overlords, but the galaxy at large (I guess squatting in caves makes you
a
> > bit melodramatic after a while... maybe that explains Osama Bin Laden).
> > Having reared him for this day for two decades, the Remans place Shinzon
in
> > the center-seat, with a Reman Viceroy to watch over and advise him.
> > Enterprise, of course, is sent in, and we have Old Picard-vs. Young
Picard.
> > The script is quite powerful and should play out well on-screen --
> > especially with Ron Perlamn playing the Viceroy. The guy playing the
> > younger Picard (I forget his name at the moment) looks a lot like
Patrick
> > Stewart and is a very good actor. And the Reman make-up is brilliant.
A
> > cool sub-plot, by the way, involves Data finding a "lost brother" named
> > B-9, who is a simpleton with a fraction of Data's intelligence.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Ken and Heather Taylor

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 1:52 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] What are they waiting 4? (OT)

I don't think he's dating her, I think he uses her as a walking stick.

----- Original Message -----

From: veetus@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 12:30 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] What are they waiting 4? (OT)

  Mel's younger than Harrison Ford, who will play Indiana Jones again AND is dating Ally McBeal. - - Jeff

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 8:13 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] What are they waiting 4? (OT)

In a message dated 9/5/02 11:11:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Haristas@... writes:

He thinks they're dumb flicks and he's now an Academy Award winning director and all that.  

Mel's also too old!


Movie News
Miller talks on slim chance for MAD MAX 4
Well, he gave us three great action flicks
Dateline: Thursday, September 5, 2002

By: CHRISTOPHER ALLAN SMITH
By: News Editor
Source: EMPIRE, via Moviehole

George Miller is chiming in on what seem to be quarterly teases for the possible MAD MAX 4 movie. What's the latest news? Not promising.

"I'm excited by it, but that's about all I can say," he said in an interview with Australia's EMPIRE magazine. "I never, ever intended on doing another one, but the story came to me and has struck like a dog in the back of my brain - it hung on and it wouldn't let go".

So when can fans expect the long awaited return of Mel Gibson as the warrior of the wastelands? Well, that's where things get hazy. According to the report, Miller is holding out hope Gibson communicates, "says 'yes he'll come back." Which hasn't happened yet. Hell, it's only been 17 years since the last one.








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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

Well, that's the trick, despite the studios saying they have to please
"everybody". You have to please the fans first and stay true to what made it
worthy in the first place. "Apes" didn't, "Spiderman", "Harry Potter" and
"Lord of the Rings" did. "Star Wars" didn't and the box office dropped off
even though people prefer the new one. Etc. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 2:53 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Star Trek, Alien, and Apes (partly OT)


> I think the nerdy, die hard fans contribute a lot to it as well!
>
> Michael
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Melkor [melkor@...]
> > Sent: Saturday, 7 September 2002 1:21
> > To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Star Trek, Alien, and Apes (partly OT)
> I think a big reason that the Trek movie franchise has lasted so long is
> that they
> > manage to make a pretty good movie every other time (all the even
numbered
> > movies).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Attachments :

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----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 3:33 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Star Trek, Alien, and Apes (partly OT)

It would be cool to see at least a few the apes wearing the same style suits from the original.

Speaking of the original style suits . . .
Here's pics of the jacket from my Halloween costume from 7th grade.  Special thanks to my Mom for her sewing skills.  I cut out the symbols for the glyphs which are stuffed & sewed to give it the look and feel of hand tooled rich Corinthian leather.  My foam rubber skills weren't up to snuff back then, so I just covered the sculpted clay with latex and glued it to my face. So for those who don't like foam rubber on your face try wearing over a pound of clay on your face!







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<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 4:44 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] What If?

In a message dated 9/6/02 6:00:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, whitty@... writes:

I think Ken hates MIB 2.

I'll probably rent that when it comes to DVD.  This weekend I plan on renting BLADE II.

It's all about entertaining oneself, don't you know.

-- Rory

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----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 4:51 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] What are they waiting 4? (OT)

In a message dated 9/6/02 6:02:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, whitty@... writes:

Yes it does.

And you probably designed the cover for the video too...SHAME!

Well, here's the cover here in the States, and as you can see it's a Paramount release, so Ken Taylor wouldn't have had anything to do with it.  On the other hand, Mel does look a little gay there!






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----- Original Message -----

From: veetus@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 6:39 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] What are they waiting 4? (OT)

   But Fox's own Rupert Murdoch produced it. His dad gained fame as a journalist for exposing the hypocrisy of that squabble. - - - Jeff

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 4:51 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] What are they waiting 4? (OT)

In a message dated 9/6/02 6:02:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, whitty@... writes:

Yes it does.

And you probably designed the cover for the video too...SHAME!

Well, here's the cover here in the States, and as you can see it's a Paramount release, so Ken Taylor wouldn't have had anything to do with it.  On the other hand, Mel does look a little gay there!






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----- Original Message -----

From: veetus@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 6:49 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Here's another one! (OT)

  Speaking of sequels you never thought you'd see, www.comingsoon.net reports that production has started on an "Exorcist" sequel. For those who've forgotten, "The Exorcist" has spawned some of the worst sequels in history, and flops to boot. James' beloved George C. Scott even starred in one. The director is Paul Schrader, who gave us "Cat People" (which flopped, I believe, the same year those other flops turned sequels "Tron" and "The Thing" were released). To paraphrase Yakov Smirnov, "Hollywood, what a bizzness!" - - - Jeff

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: veetus@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 6:39 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] What are they waiting 4? (OT)

   But Fox's own Rupert Murdoch produced it. His dad gained fame as a journalist for exposing the hypocrisy of that squabble. - - - Jeff

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 4:51 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] What are they waiting 4? (OT)

In a message dated 9/6/02 6:02:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, whitty@... writes:

Yes it does.

And you probably designed the cover for the video too...SHAME!

Well, here's the cover here in the States, and as you can see it's a Paramount release, so Ken Taylor wouldn't have had anything to do with it.  On the other hand, Mel does look a little gay there!






Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

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That's excellent! - - - Jeff

Thanks!  I don't know about being a costume nazi, as someone had suggested.  Just you're average film fan -- well, maybe above average.  When Jaws came out, I got some wire mesh and duct tape.  It started out as a fin -- then a head with a fully articulated mouth -- then ended up eight and a half feet long.


<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/6/02 9:28:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:

Well, the "Alien" franchise isn't finished because Fox's next big project
is "Alien vs. Predator", directed by the guy who did "Resident Evil" (I
guess they consider it a video game movie, not an "Alien" movie).

I haven't seen RESIDENT EVIL but I think I've read that it's a stinker.  Can the ALIEN franchise afford another stinker?  I don't think so.  Anyway, only the comic book geeks want an ALIEN vs. PREDATOR movie.  Pretty soon no major studio film won't be without some comic book or video game that it's based on.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/6/02 9:28:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:

I think any future "Apes" movie will not include Tim
Burton. Both he and Fox seem to have admitted the pairing was a mistake.
Unlike a lot of people, though, I liked the visuals (except Ape City) and
think an "Apes" movie can be totally divorced from the originals as long as
the script is good. I'd like a version of the book. - - - Jeff

Good you've finally come around to reality, Jeff.  As far as Fox ever filming Boulle's book pretty much as he wrote it. . . Fox had its chance AND THEY BLEW IT!  GOD DAMN THEM ALL TO HELL!  THEY BLEW IT!

That bird has flown.  What we need now is a really good POTA comic book or video game, otherwise they suits at the studios are lost.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/6/02 9:37:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:

Come on. POTA2001 made you a Kristopherson fan and you're just shy about admitting it! - - - Jeff

Well, he is a manly sort of man, but then man is a nuisance, capable of nothing but destruction.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/6/02 9:50:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:

Speaking of sequels you never thought you'd see, www.comingsoon.net

reports that production has started on an "Exorcist" sequel. 

Actually, Jeffery, I believe they're making an EXORCIST prequel, not a sequel.  In any event, it won't scare me.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/6/02 9:57:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:

  Speak of the Devil (and not "The Exorcist"). www.dvdfile.com

says the "Alien" box set "Legacy" is being discontinued to make way for new DVD versions of the flicks. That's our Fox! Since there's supposed to be a new "Alien" doc on AMC next year, it sounds suspiciously like the plans for "Apes" as well. When we're as old as J. Lee was we'll STILL be buying "Alien" and "Apes" box sets. - - - Jeff



No we won't.  We'll all be lying on bed pans in the nursing homes that hold the entire baby boom generation who discovered that their 401K plans were bogus and Social Security a scam, pushing buttons that will fed any movie we want to watch directly into our brains -- in Panavision and surround.  The younger generation will be earning its living by emptying our bed pans and wiping our asses.

-- Rory<.html

Attachments :

.htmlIn a message dated 9/6/02 9:58:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

Thanks!  I don't know about being a costume nazi, as someone had suggested.  Just you're average film fan -- well, maybe above average.  When Jaws came out, I got some wire mesh and duct tape.  It started out as a fin -- then a head with a fully articulated mouth -- then ended up eight and a half feet long.

So, T, why didn't you move to Hollywood and get a job with Stan Winston?
<.html

Attachments :

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 6:56 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Star Trek, Alien, and Apes (partly OT)

That's excellent! - - - Jeff

Thanks!  I don't know about being a costume nazi, as someone had suggested.  Just you're average film fan -- well, maybe above average.  When Jaws came out, I got some wire mesh and duct tape.  It started out as a fin -- then a head with a fully articulated mouth -- then ended up eight and a half feet long.




Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 7:34 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Star Trek, Alien, and Apes (partly OT)

In a message dated 9/6/02 9:28:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:

Well, the "Alien" franchise isn't finished because Fox's next big project
is "Alien vs. Predator", directed by the guy who did "Resident Evil" (I
guess they consider it a video game movie, not an "Alien" movie).

I haven't seen RESIDENT EVIL but I think I've read that it's a stinker.  Can the ALIEN franchise afford another stinker?  I don't think so.  Anyway, only the comic book geeks want an ALIEN vs. PREDATOR movie.  Pretty soon no major studio film won't be without some comic book or video game that it's based on.

-- Rory

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<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/6/02 11:33:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:

That's cool, too. We had similar interests as kids, but I used pen and paper to make apes and sharks. - - - Jeff

Me too!  I was also into clay!<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 7:38 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Star Trek, Alien, and Apes (partly OT)

In a message dated 9/6/02 9:28:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:

I think any future "Apes" movie will not include Tim
Burton. Both he and Fox seem to have admitted the pairing was a mistake.
Unlike a lot of people, though, I liked the visuals (except Ape City) and
think an "Apes" movie can be totally divorced from the originals as long as
the script is good. I'd like a version of the book. - - - Jeff

Good you've finally come around to reality, Jeff.  As far as Fox ever filming Boulle's book pretty much as he wrote it. . . Fox had its chance AND THEY BLEW IT!  GOD DAMN THEM ALL TO HELL!  THEY BLEW IT!

That bird has flown.  What we need now is a really good POTA comic book or video game, otherwise they suits at the studios are lost.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 7:44 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Here's another one! (OT)

In a message dated 9/6/02 9:50:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:

Speaking of sequels you never thought you'd see, www.comingsoon.net

reports that production has started on an "Exorcist" sequel. 

Actually, Jeffery, I believe they're making an EXORCIST prequel, not a sequel.  In any event, it won't scare me.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 7:50 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] "Alien" and "Apes" (OT)

In a message dated 9/6/02 9:57:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:

  Speak of the Devil (and not "The Exorcist"). www.dvdfile.com

says the "Alien" box set "Legacy" is being discontinued to make way for new DVD versions of the flicks. That's our Fox! Since there's supposed to be a new "Alien" doc on AMC next year, it sounds suspiciously like the plans for "Apes" as well. When we're as old as J. Lee was we'll STILL be buying "Alien" and "Apes" box sets. - - - Jeff

No we won't.  We'll all be lying on bed pans in the nursing homes that hold the entire baby boom generation who discovered that their 401K plans were bogus and Social Security a scam, pushing buttons that will fed any movie we want to watch directly into our brains -- in Panavision and surround.  The younger generation will be earning its living by emptying our bed pans and wiping our asses.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/6/02 11:45:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:

They're doing what "Exorcist 2" kinda did, show the priest as a young man in Africa meeting the demon. Oh, and remember that "Exorcist" spoof with Leslie Nielsen and linda Blair? It's scary that I remember it. Fun fact: Leslie Nielsen used to drive Natalie Trundy to work when then did the premiere episode of "Thriller" together. - - - Jeff

Leslie Nielson.  Funny you should mention him.  I just got the FORBIDDEN PLANET DVD I found on Half.com for just $10.  Good thing I got it for half price.  The print used stinks!  They really need to remaster that baby.  I wonder though if there's enough who care?

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/6/02 11:48:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:

  But Rupert Murdoch's kids will own the nursing homes so all we'll get to watch is Fox movies. Burton will be there too, and when he sees POTA2001 he'll say," God, you guys were right. This IS awful". - - Jeff

If I'm ever in the same nursing home with Tim Burton, he's a dead man!<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/6/02 11:45:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:

Fun fact: Leslie Nielsen used to drive Natalie Trundy to work when then did the premiere episode of "Thriller" together. - - - Jeff

That episode was entitled "The Twisted Image" and first aired on Sept. 13, 1960.  I was a little over one year old then and I remember watching that show as if it was yesterday.  (Think PMT will call me a lying sack of shit again?)

Anyway, Leslie Nielsen.  Yes, he was a good driver, but he kept making fart noises, or maybe those were real.  Does Natalie remember?

-- Rory<.html

.html

So, T, why didn't you move to Hollywood and get a job with Stan Winston?

Actually I wrote Stan and asked him for a job when he did the prototypes for Apes.  But needless to say neither one of us got the job.
<.html

Just like the nerdy, die hard apes fans contributed to making five apes movies.

>
> I think the nerdy, die hard fans contribute a lot to it as well!
>
> Michael
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Melkor [melkor@...]
> > Sent: Saturday, 7 September 2002 1:21
> > To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Star Trek, Alien, and Apes (partly OT)
> I think a big reason that the Trek movie franchise has lasted so long is
> that they
> > manage to make a pretty good movie every other time (all the even numbered
> > movies).
>

>
> Well, the "Alien" franchise isn't finished because Fox's next big project
> is "Alien vs. Predator", directed by the guy who did "Resident Evil" (I

The Alien franchise may not be totally dead but it is not in very good shape
after movies 3 and 4. If a new Alien movie comes out I may or may not see
it in the theater (probably not) but I surely won't rush out and see it
opening weekend like Alien 3.

> guess they consider it a video game movie, not an "Alien" movie). As for
> "Star Trek", even the cast is confused; I guess it's being promoted as the
> "final" "Next Gen" adventure. I don't think "Deep Space 9" or "Voyager" will
> warrant movies. And I think any future "Apes" movie will not include Tim
> Burton. Both he and Fox seem to have admitted the pairing was a mistake.
> Unlike a lot of people, though, I liked the visuals (except Ape City) and
> think an "Apes" movie can be totally divorced from the originals as long as
> the script is good. I'd like a version of the book. - - - Jeff

Yes it can be "totally divorced" because Apes has a tradition where each
new series takes place in a separate universe. But it sure would be cool
to see some of the apes in a new movie wearing the classic apes suits and
I think it would make the movie more successful. Imagine an outdoor scene
where some apes are wearing "street clothes" but a couple orangutans are
walking along wearing their classic suits.

The "Alien vs. Predator" concept came about because in the 2nd Predator movie
the Predator spaceship shows an "Alien" skull among its trophy collection.

>
> Bite your tongue! The movie will have nothing to do with the comic book. =
> It spent years in development hell while they tried to do the comic book. T=
> hen the successful video game made them realize the error of their ways and=
> they based it on that instead. If Shakespeare was alive today he could hav=
> e told them to go with the video game in the first place, for that is the m=
> ark of a true artist. " Thou art insane to vouch for yon comic book. The vi=
> deo game, would any rose smell as sweet?" Etc. - - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----=20
> From: Haristas@...=20
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com=20
> Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 7:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Star Trek, Alien, and Apes (partly OT)
>
>
> In a message dated 9/6/02 9:28:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, veetus@earthl=
> ink.net writes:
>
>
>
> Well, the "Alien" franchise isn't finished because Fox's next big proje=
> ct
> is "Alien vs. Predator", directed by the guy who did "Resident Evil" (I
> guess they consider it a video game movie, not an "Alien" movie).=20
>
>
>
> I haven't seen RESIDENT EVIL but I think I've read that it's a stinker. =
> Can the ALIEN franchise afford another stinker? I don't think so. Anyway,=
> only the comic book geeks want an ALIEN vs. PREDATOR movie. Pretty soon n=
> o major studio film won't be without some comic book or video game that it'=
> s based on.

> Boulle--an admirer of that same star--probably thought that his satirical=

space-romance "La Planète des Singes" was going to be the only real SF nove=
l he would write, so why not have his "ape planet" orbit his favorite star? =
That way, he'd have an excuse to have one of his characters go into detail a=
bout how Betelgeuse is "a palpitating star", and all that.

>
> Patrick

>
> Wait a minute, Patrick! Boulle also wrote "Garden on the Moon," "Despera=

te Games," "Mirrors of the Sun," "Time out of Mind and Other Stories." Have =
you bothered to read them? And have you ever read Huxley's "Ape and Essence=
"?

>
> -- Rory

*** I've read "Garden on the Moon" (a.k.a. "Le Jardin de Kanashima"),
which was about the Moon-race written during the actual Moon-race,
with only a few names changed to protect the "guilty" (Von Braun
becomes 'Von Schwartz' [the translator CHANGED this name to 'Stern'
for some stupid reason], and the 'Apollo' program becomes the
'Phoebus' program); he made quick changes to it when Kennedy was
killed, working that into his plot.

Is GARDEN science fiction? Just because it dealt with the space race
(a scientific endeavor) doesn't necessarily make it SF, in my book
(i.e. Would Clancy's "Hunt for Red October" be not just a military
techno-thriller but also SF due to its would be "Caterpillar" drive--
the submarine stealth technology, which (probably) didn't exist when
he wrote the book, but someday MIGHT exist?), but I can see why most
would view GARDEN as SF. It's a far cry from the type of novel "La
Planète des Singes" is, though.

Haven't read "Desperate Games" or "Mirrors of the Sun" yet, though.
The copies I got of those books (which are on a stack of Books-Yet-To-
Be-Read) were in the "thriller"/"espionage"/"standard fiction"
sections of the used book stores, so I assumed (yeah, yeah, I know:
Ass-U-Me) they were just fiction, like "Bridge Over the River Kwai".
"Time out of Mind" was a collection of short stories, which I did read
(and enjoyed); since it wasn't a novel per se, I didn't consider it
when I wrote the bit you're reply was in reference to.

Yes, I have read Huxley's "Ape and Essence"; in fact, I mentioned it
in one of my posts several months back. I mentioned then that I
considered "Ape and Essence" to be as much of a source work for
Schaffner's film of PLANET as was Boulle's original novel, given the
"post-nuclear war" theme which Serling added to the mix. PLANET (the
movie) owes much to Boulle's novel, but thematically owes even more to
Huxley, I think. Since you brought up "Ape and Essence", what do YOU
think, Rory? Does PLANET owe as much to Huxley as it does to Boulle?

Patrick

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 9/1/02 8:39:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
>
> Will Betelgeuse end up as that rare type of supernova--a hypernova? Given its mass, it just MIGHT. And if it does, then it's Doomsday for real.
>
> Patrick
>
> Patrick, I think you should write this up and send it off to the STAR or NATIONAL ENQUIRER because this could have a drastic affect on all the religions and philosophies of the world. Why bother worrying about pollution, or aliens, or asteroids hitting the earth -- Betelgeuse could blow up tomorrow and we're all dead. Why haven't you mentioned this before? I now need to make plans.
>
> -- Rory

*** As long as Britney & J-Lo & Oprah (etc. etc.) have important,
dramatic things happening in their personal lives, I'm afraid those
tabloids don't have room for stuff like Doomsday hypernovae.
Hmmm... maybe WEEKLY WORLD NEWS... as long as Batboy isn't hogging the
spotlight.

Patrick

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 9/1/02 8:57:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
>
> > but I still think that Hyams' un-Kubrickian sound effect in a film whic=

h IS a sequel to Kubrick's movie makes it deserve the "über-raspberry".

> >
>
> Hyams is a hack. I've know that for years. Remember CAPRICORN ONE? Onl=

y good thing about that movie are the scenes that remind you of PLANET, and =
OF COURSE, one of the great Jerry Goldsmith scores. But Hyams is a hack. Wh=
at did you think of 3001 (was that what it was?), Patrick? I don't think an=
y of the sequels to 2001 were all that great. I find the later Clarke very h=
ard to read because he's become such a name dropper.

>
> -- Rory

*** I loved the novel "2010: Odyssey Two"; I liked "2061: Odyssey
Three" quite a bit (if not quite as much); I merely liked "3001: The
Final Odyssey": its plotline was okay, as were the Ideas that Clarke
weaved into it... but Clarke's writing quality has sagged, I'm sad to
admit. I did think it was brilliant to have 30th/31st Century
scientists retrieve the flash-frozen corpse of Frank Poole and revive
him (via nanotech-surgery) so that he could be Clarke's version of
"Buck Rogers" (albeit in a century twice as far down the line...),
seeing the wondrous techno-futuristic society our descendants will
live in. Given the events of last September (the 11th), I've gotta
give Clarke the nod for his "take" on Religion. In a thousand years,
people who believe unproven/unprovable "mystic" nonsense will probably
be considered mentally ill... I wonder if there'll ever be a cure for
it?
I think it'd be nice if, say, the Sci-Fi Channel were to get the
rights to adapt "2061" and "3001". They might not fly on the big
screen, but as made-for-TV flicks, they'd probably be worth a view.
Just as long as Peter "Hack" Hyams is kept off the set!

Despite Clarke's less-than-stellar writing quality, his collaboration
with Stephen Baxter ("The Light of Other Days") is rather excellent. I
don't know how much is Clarke and how much is Baxter, but the total
package was a great read. Man!, but how I would LOVE to own a
"WormCam"!

Patrick

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 9/1/02 9:33:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
>
> > Of course, the Flood myth in Genesis is a monotheistic bastardization of the original polytheistic story told in the Gilgamesh epic and the Atrahasis epic, from Sumeria. In those original versions, the Storm God ENLIL was the one who orchestrated the intentional mass-murder of humanity, and his half-brother Sea God ENKI was the Prometheus-like protector of the remnant led by Utnapishtim. When the Biblical "redactor" took these Sumerian myths (which he probably learned about during the "Babylonian Captivity" in the 6th Century B.C.), which the Babylonians had kept alive, that Hebrew monotheist re-wrote it and thus created a single god who is alternately cruel (Enlil) then merciful (Enki); Jehovah--the literary creation of that Redactor--could accurately be called a "schizophrenic god".
> >
> > Patrick
> >
> >
>
> Whenever anyone asks me do I believe in God, I always ask them, "Could you please be more specific." Usually my ultimate answer is "No." All attempts by man to define God end up as simplistic as far as I'm concerned. There are some things that are just simply beyond human understanding. We just have to accept that and move on. We are here and it is now. You get a hold of that and hang onto it, or you might as well be dead. You know what I mean, Patrick?
>
> -- Rory

*** Yeah... of course, when Taylor said "here" he thought he was some
320 lightyears away from Earth, rather than ON the Earth. Too bad his
ship's computer didn't wake him & his crew up while they were
approaching the planet, rather than after they splash-landed.

Unlike Landon, I--for one--am NOT prepared to die. Not just yet,
anyway. Maybe if Science cures the ailment known as "natural causes"
I'll get to live for hundreds of years... but I'll probably get sick &
tired of livin' after a hemi-millennium or so. Of course, by then Zed
the Exterminator will be ready to kill me for the sake of Zardoz...!

Patrick

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 8/31/02 3:12:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
>
> > Other "top" SF flicks on my list of favorites: BLADE-RUNNER (despite Harrison Ford's lack-of-appreciation, it's one of the best SF movies ever made, and Harrison's best performance, I think)
>
> Patrick, please explain this whole BLADE RUNNER thing. This movie did nothing for me. I don't get its lasting appeal.

*** Although the original released version was great (I thought,
anyway), the Director's Cut version is even better--it does away with
that godawful narration (which Harrison Ford did under the assumption
that it wouldn't make it to the actual print--oops!).

Like other movies (since) based on Philip K. Dick stories, BLADE-
RUNNER is quite the mind-fuck. Imagine finding out that not only are
you NOT a human being, but that all those decades of memories in your
head are actually implanted memories originating in someone else's
brain... and that you're actually less than 4 years old (having been
created in a laboratory as a full-fledged "adult"). The "replicants"
in BLADE-RUNNER must wonder, eventually, which of their memories are
actually THEIRS, as opposed to somebody else's. How do you know what
you know? Because your brain received sensory input... but through
whose senses? Your own? It's no wonder that Phil Dick was a paranoid
wacko genius--he probably didn't even trust that his own thoughts were
REALLY his OWN thoughts!
I know you didn't dig "The Matrix", but I have a feeling that Phil
Dick would have thought highly of it, given that Neo has a similar
quandary regarding his "perceived reality".

If you haven't seen the Director's Cut of BLADE-RUNNER, then quickly
go out and do so--and if you still don't dig it, then it's just a
matter of taste, I guess. Not everybody liked 1968's PLANET, either
(or "got" its lasting appeal... to us here).

The special effects in BLADE-RUNNER are exquisite--and this was well
before CGI stuff, remember. Phil Mead's futuristic designs were
plausible as well as being terrific (the "spinner" cars, for
instance). The music score by Vangelis perfectly fit the film (I can't
imagine a John Williams-type orchestral score "fitting" the mood of
the movie quite as well). And Rutger Hauer did his best work in it.

All sorts of reasons to love BLADE-RUNNER. But if you don't, then hey,
it's alright. Some people like oysters... some like snails... it's all
a matter of taste. Just watch out when your Roman master tells you he
likes BOTH oysters and snails while you're washing his back in the hot
tub--don't drop the soap, Mr. Curtis!

Patrick

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 8/31/02 3:12:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
>
> STAR TREK II, III, IV, VI, & VIII (STTMP was a rip off of "The Changeling" and "The Ultimate Computer" and several other original episodes; ST-V was ruined by the forced inclusion of ill-placed humor, in addition to being a rip-off of the episode about the "hippies" who steal the Enterprise ["The Way to Eden"? yeah, I think that was it]; ST: Insurrection was VILE, and an insult to the pro-science thematic thrust of Star Trek; ST: Generations was iffy--though I did like the idea of a lunatic purposely blowing up stars just to create a new pathway for that goofy "energy ribbon" thingy: why not just fly a spaceship directly in its path, instead? Oh, I forgot... that would be the OBVIOUS thing to do!)
>
>
> Most of the STAR TREK movies have not aged well with me. I bought the first one's DVD because of Goldsmith's connection, but I haven't even considered getting the ST II special edition.
>
> Patrick, you forgot to add what you thought of STAR TREK: FIRST CONTACT. I thought that one was pretty good. I'm looking forward to STAR TREK: NEMESIS.

*** FIRST CONTACT would be the "VIIIth" STAR TREK flick, which I
mentioned above was one of the ones I liked. The ONLY thing I didn't
like was when Cochrane says that Riker (et al.) "are on some sort of
'star trek'..." Ugh! what a stoopid way to work in the Title!
I liked the Borg--one of the few things Next Gen (the series) did that
didn't make me roll my eyes and long for "classic" Trek. The use of
the Holodeck finally worked for me--a strategic, desperate move on
Picard's part to get the better of the Borg drones. I really liked the
bit when Picard & Worf had to get into space-suits and walk along the
outer hull to mess up the Borg's comm-signal booster (although jet-
pack type things would've come in handy, rather than ONLY magnetic
booties).
FIRST CONTACT was infinitely better than STAR DREK: INSURRECTION. The
only reason I'm not looking forward to NEMESIS is that I've heard some
advance buzz regarding the plot--especially concerning Data. I've
heard that Data ends up dying (just like Spock in WRATH OF KHAN,
saving the ship), but not before "downloading" his memories into a
different android body (to be played by another actor, since Brent
Spiner evidently doesn't want to do the role anymore). I've heard that
this "new" android character will have the name "B-9"! "Benign", get
it? He's NICE, he's HARMLESS... and he'll probably be just as friggin'
BORING as Data was!
Oh, what I would pay to see a movie version of THE CAVES OF STEEL,
with a REAL android: R. Daneel Olivaw!

Patrick

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 8/31/02 3:12:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
>
> > FORBIDDEN PLANET (dated and kinda hokey, but wonderful still, and
> > insightful regarding the "monsters of the Id")
>
> Actually, you can look at this movie as a precursor to the first STAR TREK TV show. I love this film, and it is dated now, but it has that thing I've been calling "depth." It's a classic, but I haven't bought it on DVD because I'm waiting for a restoration of the print elements.

*** FORBIDDEN PLANET and HORATIO HORNBLOWER (Greg Peck's flick) too,
believe it or not, were the 2 main sources for TREK. Yeah, I too love
FORBIDDEN PLANET. I hate it when people parrot the line that it's
"just" Shakespeare's "The Tempest" updated as SF. Caliban may have
been somewhat 'monstrous', but the Monster from the Id in the movie
had very little to do with that. I've yet to get it on DVD, but it's
only a matter of time. I hope they do release it with better sound
quality than the laserdisc had, though (I dubbed a VHS copy off a
friend's laserdisc). And do you know if Leslie Nielsen has done any
Commentary for the DVD release?

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 8/31/02 3:12:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
>
> > LOGAN'S RUN (the book was infinitely better, but I still have a soft spot in my heart for the movie that got me to read the book in the first place), SOYLENT GREEN (an improvement on Harry Harrison's novella "Make Room, Make Room!"), THE OMEGA MAN (an odd adaptation of "I Am Legend", turning Vampires into Counter-culture hippie-zombies, but Ah! there's good ol' CHUCK HESTON kickin' ass and takin' names!).
> >
> These three movies are really seventies junk as far as I'm concerned, but LOGAN'S RUN has a good Jerry Goldsmith score, and THE OMEGA MAN a good score by Ron Grainer (Yes, I AM LEGEND is a great book. Why they've never filmed it as written I don't understand. Just read Matheson's THE SHRINKING MAN. Another great book.), but SOYLENT GREEN has a lot of problems and this is also the movie where you see the start of Heston wearing a rug.

*** If you haven't read the source novel LOGAN'S RUN, do it. You'll
wonder why they changed so much of it when MGM did the film. Current
CGI effects capabilities would make it work now, though... and I'd
love to see a faithful adaptation.

Actually, regarding I AM LEGEND, there WAS a "faithful" filmed version
of it--a British-made B-movie starring Vincent Price (titled, I think,
"THE LAST MAN ON EARTH"). Think of the original "NIGHT OF THE LIVING
DEAD" with only a third of the budget, and you get the idea. It may
have been "filmed as written", but it was rather poor quality. Ah, but
it would be great to see a big-budgeted version of I AM LEGEND, done
by a director who really knows how to direct a scary film.

--- In pota@y..., CheeseGOTAS@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 8/30/02 2:05:44 PM Central Daylight Time, Haristas@a...
> writes:
>
> << 'Batman' Film Director to Become 'Batman' Stage Director
> <A HREF="http://us.imdb.com/Name?Burton%2C+Tim">Tim Burton</A>, who directed
> the original <A HREF="http://us.imdb.com/Title?0096895">Batman</A> movie in
> 1989 and the sequel, <A HREF="http://us.imdb.com/Title?0103776">
> Batman Returns</A>, in 1992, has agreed to direct Batman: The Musical! >>
>
> Oh, of course it was a lie. I really can't imagine Batman dancing across the
> stage.
>
> -Joe

*** Don't you remember "the Batusi" on the old Adam West series? It
was in the pilot episode. God, but it was hilarious!

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:

> What's your take on the argument that such items as our eyes are too co=

mplex to have "evolved", that the odds the world would turn out as it did ar=
e astronomical? Not necessarily a particular religion but just the general n=
otion that there is a God? Basically, did everything "just happen". - -

> Jeff
>

*** There are at least a dozen books on the shelves in the Science
section at Barnes & Noble which more-than-adequately refute the
"complex eye" argument. If "God" made Man in His image, then why the
hell would He create OTHER creatures (like chimpanzees & gorillas)
which are 98.4% IDENTICAL to Man? Why would God create beasts which
are ALMOST exactly in His image? The "comparative anatomy" field of
Science (which was Zira's specialty, remember) gives the lie to the
Creationist nonsense--that Mankind is somehow above the "tooth-and-
claw" of the natural world. Face it, Jeff: we're not Plants or
Protists... we're ANIMALS. We eat & rut & shit & sleep just like all
the other beasties in the Animal kingdom. Our ONLY advantage is that
our brains got slightly bigger (percentile of body mass) and more
complex/convoluted, resulting in our capacity for INTELLIGENT THOUGHT.
For an animal, a chimp is pretty damned smart too... but it didn't
specialize in Smarts. WE did--and that's why Chimps are endangered,
and we're not. We want to believe we're "more than just animals", so
we invented the notion that the Sky God who sends thunder & lightning
& earthquakes & floods created us to be SPECIAL. When scientists first
studied human development through the embryonic stages and discovered
that we have TAILS AND GILLS (which, thankfully, are recessive traits
our distant ancestors once had but which we have evolved away from) in
the earlier stages, that should have made the Creationists pause and
admit that there's NO REASON WHATSOEVER for their "God" to make each
individual Human Being at ANY stage of its development WITH tails or
gills.

Did everything "just" happen? Of course not! Everything happened, yes,
but there was no "just" ("merely") about it. It took BILLIONS of
years, and it was our luck that the protoplanetary disk of dust which
formed into our solar system had a rocky planet 93 million miles out
from that type G star. Luck... chance... call it what you will, but
that's how the universe works. Probably less than 1 star in a million
has a life-bearing planet orbiting it. That's the luck of the draw.
Read up on Chaos theory, and you'll see that Chaos and Complexity are
two sides of the same coin, like Mass and Energy. There are "strange
attractors"... hidden levels of Order in all chaotic systems... and
THAT makes the "chance" events of Evolution possible in a seemingly
Random universe.

Patrick

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@y...>
> To: <pota@y...>
> Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2002 6:33 AM
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Jeff's merciful God...
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> > I will pray for you my son. You are an instrument of Patrick! Etc. - =

- =

> - Jeff
>
> *** If you insist on draggin' me into this, then here's my 2¢.
> Question: How many infants did Jehovah murder when he destroyed ALL
> LIFE (except for Noah's Ark-ful) on Earth?
> Answer: Assuming that Flood-myth actually happened, then EVERY SINGLE
> INFANT alive then was murdered by Jehovah.
> Think of it: what would the Earth's population have been roughly 4400
> years ago? A couple million, maybe? How many of those Flood victims
> were pregnant women? On any given day, what percentage of women in the
> world are pregnant? Did their unborn children deserve to be destroyed
> along with all the "sinners" that Jehovah wanted to kill? Did the new-
> born babies suckling at their mothers' teats deserve to drown to
> death? You'd think that an all-powerful "god" could selectively zap
> the bad guys, like the evil Kirk in "Mirror, Mirror" with his secret
> weapon in his Captain's Quarters. But NOOOOO! Jehovah likes committing
> murder... until he's suddenly sorry he did it and puts pretty rainbows
> in the sky as a "sign" that he'll never do THAT again! Yeesh! Mystic
> phooey is RIGHT.
>
> Of course, the Flood myth in Genesis is a monotheistic bastardization
> of the original polytheistic story told in the Gilgamesh epic and the
> Atrahasis epic, from Sumeria. In those original versions, the Storm
> God ENLIL was the one who orchestrated the intentional mass-murder of
> humanity, and his half-brother Sea God ENKI was the Prometheus-like
> protector of the remnant led by Utnapishtim. When the Biblical
> "redactor" took these Sumerian myths (which he probably learned about
> during the "Babylonian Captivity" in the 6th Century B.C.), which the
> Babylonians had kept alive, that Hebrew monotheist re-wrote it and
> thus created a single god who is alternately cruel (Enlil) then
> merciful (Enki); Jehovah--the literary creation of that Redactor--
> could accurately be called a "schizophrenic god".
>
> Patrick
>
> > You know, God. Never heard of Him? He protects Us from harm becau=

se=

> we were created in His image. The animals in the forest live in sin, but=

> He=
> gave up His only son so that the Earth wouldn't swell up like a balloon
> and=
> turn red like Betelguise. Or something like that. Etc.
> =
> - - - Jeff
> >
>
> > Mystic phooey!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

terms/

.htmlIn a message dated 9/8/02 10:25:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

If you haven't seen the Director's Cut of BLADE-RUNNER, then quickly
go out and do so--and if you still don't dig it, then it's just a
matter of taste, I guess. Not everybody liked 1968's PLANET, either
(or "got" its lasting appeal... to us here).

I've seen the director's cut and, yes, I still don't get it.  I guess it is a matter of taste.  I'm with the concenses in Leonard Maltin's Movie & Video Guide which only gives BLADERUNNER one and a half stars and calls the script muddled and all the characters unappealing.  I also thought THE MATRIX was just boring crap.  Don't get that one at all.  I guess I like SF films that have characters that I like and a certain narrative style.  Would it surprise you that one of my favorite old SF films is ROBINSON CRUSOE ON MARS.  Not exactly great SF, but there's just elements of it that I like.  I like best the kind of things I grew up with.  BLADERUNNER and THE MATRIX just aren't attractive for me.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/8/02 10:54:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

Actually, regarding I AM LEGEND, there WAS a "faithful" filmed version
of it--a British-made B-movie starring Vincent Price (titled, I think,
"THE LAST MAN ON EARTH"). Think of the original "NIGHT OF THE LIVING
DEAD" with only a third of the budget, and you get the idea. It may
have been "filmed as written", but it was rather poor quality. Ah, but
it would be great to see a big-budgeted version of I AM LEGEND, done
by a director who really knows how to direct a scary film.

No, I've never read LOGAN'S RUN.  I'll have to do that, though.  But, yes, I've seen THE LAST MAN ON EARTH.  It was actually an Italian film, L'ULTIMO UOMO DELLA TERRA (1965).  I don't believe it's much like the book.  It's been more than twenty years since I read the book but I remember it had a mood and atmosphere to it that niether adaptation captured.  I especially remember an episode with a dog in the book that was very good, and Matheson's ending is just great.  I've read that Matheson doesn't believe that if another adaptation was done today it would have the same resonance as in the 50's and 60's since so many books and movies like it have been done since.  Still, I'd like to see someone try AND SUCCEED!

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/8/02 11:15:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

*** FORBIDDEN PLANET and HORATIO HORNBLOWER (Greg Peck's flick) too,
believe it or not, were the 2 main sources for TREK. Yeah, I too love
FORBIDDEN PLANET. I hate it when people parrot the line that it's
"just" Shakespeare's "The Tempest" updated as SF. Caliban may have
been somewhat 'monstrous', but the Monster from the Id in the movie
had very little to do with that. I've yet to get it on DVD, but it's
only a matter of time. I hope they do release it with better sound
quality than the laserdisc had, though (I dubbed a VHS copy off a
friend's laserdisc). And do you know if Leslie Nielsen has done any
Commentary for the DVD release?

As I've told everyone, I found the DVD for $10 and got it.  I shouldn't have bothered.  It looks and sounds terrible.  They are going to HAVE to do a restoration of this movie.  It deserves it.  There is no commentary track.  I have the old Criterion laserdisc of F.P. which I haven't looked at in a time.  It had some cool extras, but no commentary track either.  Except for the poorer video quality, I think the print used by Criterion may actually be better than the one on DVD.

I have a tape of CAPTAIN HORATIO HORNBLOWER.  Good movie.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/8/02 12:15:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

Did everything "just" happen? Of course not! Everything happened, yes,
but there was no "just" ("merely") about it. It took BILLIONS of
years, and it was our luck that the protoplanetary disk of dust which
formed into our solar system had a rocky planet 93 million miles out
from that type G star. Luck... chance... call it what you will, but
that's how the universe works. Probably less than 1 star in a million
has a life-bearing planet orbiting it. That's the luck of the draw.
Read up on Chaos theory, and you'll see that Chaos and Complexity are
two sides of the same coin, like Mass and Energy. There are "strange
attractors"... hidden levels of Order in all chaotic systems... and
THAT makes the "chance" events of Evolution possible in a seemingly
Random universe.

Patrick

I think some people can't really grasp just how long a time a billion years is.  From our perspective, it might as well be an eternity.  It's more than enough time for so many random things to happens that it could be seen as a pattern with thought behind it.  And the Earth is three or four billion years old.  Think how long a hundred years is, then think how long a thousand years is, then think that there are ten one hundred thousands in a million, and a thousand millions in a billion.  That's a hell of a long time.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/8/02 9:45:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

Yes, I have read Huxley's "Ape and Essence"; in fact, I mentioned it
in one of my posts several months back. I mentioned then that I
considered "Ape and Essence" to be as much of a source work for
Schaffner's film of PLANET as was Boulle's original novel, given the
"post-nuclear war" theme which Serling added to the mix. PLANET (the
movie) owes much to Boulle's novel, but thematically owes even more to
Huxley, I think. Since you brought up "Ape and Essence", what do YOU
think, Rory? Does PLANET owe as much to Huxley as it does to Boulle?

Patrick

I actually have never read APE AND ESSENCE.   How is it?  What's its plot?   Have you got a copy you could lend me?

-- Rory<.html

"Michael Whitty" <whitty@...> wrote:

> Ken Taylor and I are collectors and both of us have paid INSANE

prices for

> classic POTA stuff - we were reminiscing on the telephone yesterday

actually

> (the UK Wrapping Paper we paid $250 US for that you can get for $10

now, the

> Popping Shotgun we paid $275US for that you can get for $20 now).

I don't know if the wrapping paper is a great indicator of the PotA
collectibles price range - I suspect that rather than any great
insight into the market it's probably just the case that it has now
become apparent that the wrapping paper isn't nearly as rare as people
thought it once was.

Alan

"Michael Whitty" <whitty@...> wrote:

> Maybe I should re-watch Thunderdome.

No, you were definitely right. The third one has its moments but was
far too Hollywood-ised and lacked the cutting edge of the first two.

Alan

Rory <Haristas@...> wrote:

> I'm with you, Ken Taylor, Aussie person. I don't get the whole

thing with

> newer SF films. The Matrix -- CRAP! Mad Max -- too eighties.

MIB2 --

> trash!

I really don't enjoy the modern efforts as much either - but it's
strange, I occasionally see newer sf films (certainly no more than one
a year on average) that I think are excellent but they still don't
seem as exciting as discovering some old forgotten sf film from before
I was born that I really enjoy.

Alan

<LordTZer0@...> wrote:

> I could sure use some tips. I got the game but since I do't have a

vid card

> in my new puter it won't play. I'm going to get a PS2 someday so I

got that

> version. My nephew was in town with his so I played it and couldn't

get past

> the first gorilla!

Just learn the art of alternating the block and the punch, and then
combat becomes rather easy.

Alan

<CheeseGOTAS@...> wrote

> I was at Video Update last night with a friend, and we were going

through the

> Sci Fi section, and I saw Time of the Apes. I had never seen it

before, so I

> was 'happy' (even though I've heard it was crap). I looked at the

back of

> the box, and saw some pretty bad makeup. I didn't have my card with

me so I

> couldn't rent it, but I will be renting it tonight.

So did you get round to renting it? What did you think?

Alan

<LordTZer0@...> wrote:

> I liked ZARDOZ! I even cosidered The Brutles as a band name. But

there were

> quite a few boring bits in it.

Yeah, but the good thing about Zardoz is that even the boring bits are
so weird you still keep watching anyway.

Alan

<Haristas@...> wrote:

> I think somekind of special edition DVD of that is on the way.

Hopefully I

> can just rent it. I bought THINGS TO COME. I've watched it once.

Maybe

> I'll look at it again in a few years. You gotta be careful what

movies you

> buy.

I love THINGS TO COME! Great film, great sets, great music - one of
the first ever soundtrack albums, I believe. I saw it once at the
cinema, the place was almost empty (and it was a small cinema) but I
get the impression I was one of few who were actually glued to the
screen. Seems to get mixed reviews though...

Alan

<MTotsky@...> wrote:

> Anyone like "The Iron Giant?" I know it's a "kid's picture," but I

thought it was quite good.

Really enjoyable film, but it's not the first time that a "kid's
picture" has put the grown-ups' efforts to shame. I can't understand
the mentality in Hollywood these days that if they make a kid's film
they aim it at an intelligent audience but if they make a big budget
"grown-up" film they assume the audience are all idiots!

Alan

Jeff <veetus@...> wrote:

> 2) no news on the next Quick book; maybe it will be next year,
>since it was a year between the adaptation and "The Fall"

He said in an interview earlier in the year that he was about to start
writing it, so I shouldn't imagine you'll have to wait too much
longer.

Alan

Jeff <veetus@...> wrote:

> What is your favorite J. Lee contribution to POTA. It could be a

scene, it

> could be an aspect of production, it could be a casting decision.

For me it

> was the production designs. "Conquest" had an interesting look and I

loved

> the "Battle" treehouses.

Well, despite my soft spot for Battle, I have to say I will always
remember him for Conquest. When I first saw it when I was younger, I
was really impressed by this vision of a futuristic society, and for a
while it was my favourite film. He worked wonders with a poor budget.

Alan

"patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...> wrote:

> *** If you haven't read the source novel LOGAN'S RUN, do it. You'll
> wonder why they changed so much of it when MGM did the film. Current
> CGI effects capabilities would make it work now, though... and I'd
> love to see a faithful adaptation.

I'd be right at the front of the queue. I love the original film
(never seen the TV series though) and the score by Jerry is top class.
Great to see that it got a decent DVD treatment. I also read and
enjoyed the original book, and the two sequels.

> Actually, regarding I AM LEGEND, there WAS a "faithful" filmed

version

> of it--a British-made B-movie starring Vincent Price (titled, I

think,

> "THE LAST MAN ON EARTH"). Think of the original "NIGHT OF THE LIVING
> DEAD" with only a third of the budget, and you get the idea. It may
> have been "filmed as written", but it was rather poor quality. Ah,

but

> it would be great to see a big-budgeted version of I AM LEGEND, done
> by a director who really knows how to direct a scary film.

As Rory pointed out, it was Italian-produced, but you're right that it
was faithful, or at least more so than The Omega Man (which I also
love). Certainly the ending was a bit more faithful to the book. I'm
pretty sure that Richard Mathieson himself turned in the script for
it, but it got changed quite a bit by the time it hit the screen.
Fritz Lang was going to direct it originally, but alas they ended up
with someone else. Mathieson also later complained to George Romero
because NOTLD seemed to be heavily inspired by it!

Alan

Rory <Haristas@...> wrote:

> I've seen the director's cut and, yes, I still don't get it. I

guess it is a

> matter of taste. I'm with the concenses in Leonard Maltin's Movie &

Video

> Guide which only gives BLADERUNNER one and a half stars and calls

the script

> muddled and all the characters unappealing.

I'd echo that. I watch a lot of sci-fi films and try as I might I
can't understand the appeal of Bladerunner. I felt compelled to watch
it more than once (I've watched both versions too) to see what was so
special about it and if I was somehow missing something about this
supposed classic of the genre, but I gave up trying to understand
eventually. I just think it's a tedious pile of mince. I don't think
highly of that other "classic" Alien either, but it's all about
opinions I suppose.

I've never watched The Matrix.

Alan

.htmlIn a message dated 9/8/02 4:35:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, alan@... writes:

I love THINGS TO COME! Great film, great sets, great music - one of
the first ever soundtrack albums, I believe. I saw it once at the
cinema, the place was almost empty (and it was a small cinema) but I
get the impression I was one of few who were actually glued to the
screen. Seems to get mixed reviews though...

Alan

I agree, it's a great film.<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/8/02 4:50:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, alan@... writes:

I'd echo that. I watch a lot of sci-fi films and try as I might I
can't understand the appeal of Bladerunner. I felt compelled to watch
it more than once (I've watched both versions too) to see what was so
special about it and if I was somehow missing something about this
supposed classic of the genre, but I gave up trying to understand
eventually. I just think it's a tedious pile of mince. I don't think
highly of that other "classic" Alien either, but it's all about
opinions I suppose.

Well, I guess I'm not alone.  And I, too, don't really get what's so great about ALIEN either, except for Jerry Goldsmith's music.  It's not deep SF.  I thought ALIENS was better, but apart from the action, ALIENS is even shallower than ALIEN.

-- Rory<.html

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Of course, by then Zed the Exterminator will be ready to kill me for the sake of Zardoz...!

You'll have died not for Zardoz's sake, but for ours . . . So we won't have to read anymore long winded posts!

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since Brent Spiner evidently doesn't want to do the role anymore).

Probably a wise move, since Data isn't supposed to age.  I was wondering how long he'd last.  That makeup can only do so much.

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.htmlIn a message dated 9/8/02 5:13:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, alan@... writes:

As Rory pointed out, it was Italian-produced, but you're right that it
was faithful, or at least more so than The Omega Man (which I also
love). Certainly the ending was a bit more faithful to the book. I'm
pretty sure that Richard Mathieson himself turned in the script for
it, but it got changed quite a bit by the time it hit the screen.
Fritz Lang was going to direct it originally, but alas they ended up
with someone else. Mathieson also later complained to George Romero
because NOTLD seemed to be heavily inspired by it!

Alan

Yes, Matheson did write the original screenplay for what became THE LAST MAN ON EARTH back in 1957 when it was going to be a film for Hammer(!), but the script got changed so much that Matheson got his name taken off it.  I think the script for THE OMEGA MAN, by our BATTLE buddies, was so altered, at Heston's suggestion (which he's come to regret), that it's really a bastardization of the source novel.

-- Rory<.html

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Actually, regarding I AM LEGEND, there WAS a "faithful" filmed version
of it--a British-made B-movie starring Vincent Price (titled, I think,
"THE LAST MAN ON EARTH").

I've heard of that.  That I'd like to see.  I don't know about one with Will Smith.  He seems to be cast in everything now, whether he's right for the part or not.

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.htmlIn a message dated 9/8/02 5:47:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

Actually, regarding I AM LEGEND, there WAS a "faithful" filmed version
of it--a British-made B-movie starring Vincent Price (titled, I think,
"THE LAST MAN ON EARTH").

I've heard of that.  That I'd like to see.  I don't know about one with Will Smith.  He seems to be cast in everything now, whether he's right for the part or not.


If they end up acually making it with Will Smith . . . .

It'll suck!

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Some how . . . his use of shorter paragraphs make him seem more intellegent.

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I think some people can't really grasp just how long a time a billion years is.  From our perspective, it might as well be an eternity.  It's more than enough time for so many random things to happens that it could be seen as a pattern with thought behind it.

Oh sure, a billion years seems like a long time.  But supose you could live several billion years, and someone gives you a billion years to lets say . . . clean out the garage!  It doesn't seem so long now does it?  It's all relative.  I'd still put it off until the last couple, few thousand years or so.<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/8/02 5:59:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

Oh sure, a billion years seems like a long time.  But supose you could live several billion years, and someone gives you a billion years to lets say . . . clean out the garage!  It doesn't seem so long now does it?  It's all relative.  I'd still put it off until the last couple, few thousand years or so.

I don't think so, T.  I think after all that time you'd have evolved from a T through to a Z, then I guess you'd have to start back at an A again.  Yeah, T, after a billion years you wind up an A.  An A what?  Maybe Patrick has an answer for that.<.html

<LordTZer0@...> wrote:

>
> I've heard of that. That I'd like to see. I don't know about one

with Will

> Smith. He seems to be cast in everything now, whether he's right

for the

> part or not.

You can get the Vincent Price version either (a) on a bootleg video if
you're desperate (that's where I first saw it) since it doesn't seem
to show up on TV very often or (b) I think there have been a couple of
DVD releases of it. Not great quality on the DVD though, be warned - I
think it might be a public domain effort (I think NOTLD is in the same
way, hence the plethora of different DVDs available). There's an
Aussie one, I know that much, but I'm pretty certain it's been
released in the US too. It's worth a look - a wonderfully grim film,
it's all about the mood really.

Alan

Attachments :

.htmlIn a message dated 9/8/02 6:21:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, alan@... writes:

You can get the Vincent Price version either (a) on a bootleg video if
you're desperate (that's where I first saw it) since it doesn't seem
to show up on TV very often or (b) I think there have been a couple of
DVD releases of it. Not great quality on the DVD though, be warned - I
think it might be a public domain effort (I think NOTLD is in the same
way, hence the plethora of different DVDs available). There's an
Aussie one, I know that much, but I'm pretty certain it's been
released in the US too. It's worth a look - a wonderfully grim film,
it's all about the mood really.

Alan

No, you can get an offical VHS release (see above), however it's cheaper on DVD where it's on a double-bill with THE HOUSE ON HAUTED HILL.  However, you're right, Alan, beware of the print quality.

I find THE LAST MAN ON EARTH to be pretty boring.  I'd only recommend it if you're a Vincent Price fan, or if you're an I AM LEGEND nut.

-- Rory <.html

Great (Ridley) Scott! There's a new "Blade Runner" DVD in the works so
don't be prepared to buy the definitive edition just yet. And with Fox doing
a new box set of the "Alien" movies, better skip his original for now. - - -
Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2002 7:25 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: So?laris


> --- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> > In a message dated 8/31/02 3:12:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> > patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
> >
> >
> > > Other "top" SF flicks on my list of favorites: BLADE-RUNNER (despite
Harrison Ford's lack-of-appreciation, it's one of the best SF movies ever
made, and Harrison's best performance, I think)
> >
> > Patrick, please explain this whole BLADE RUNNER thing. This movie did
nothing for me. I don't get its lasting appeal.
>
> *** Although the original released version was great (I thought,
> anyway), the Director's Cut version is even better--it does away with
> that godawful narration (which Harrison Ford did under the assumption
> that it wouldn't make it to the actual print--oops!).
>
> Like other movies (since) based on Philip K. Dick stories, BLADE-
> RUNNER is quite the mind-fuck. Imagine finding out that not only are
> you NOT a human being, but that all those decades of memories in your
> head are actually implanted memories originating in someone else's
> brain... and that you're actually less than 4 years old (having been
> created in a laboratory as a full-fledged "adult"). The "replicants"
> in BLADE-RUNNER must wonder, eventually, which of their memories are
> actually THEIRS, as opposed to somebody else's. How do you know what
> you know? Because your brain received sensory input... but through
> whose senses? Your own? It's no wonder that Phil Dick was a paranoid
> wacko genius--he probably didn't even trust that his own thoughts were
> REALLY his OWN thoughts!
> I know you didn't dig "The Matrix", but I have a feeling that Phil
> Dick would have thought highly of it, given that Neo has a similar
> quandary regarding his "perceived reality".
>
> If you haven't seen the Director's Cut of BLADE-RUNNER, then quickly
> go out and do so--and if you still don't dig it, then it's just a
> matter of taste, I guess. Not everybody liked 1968's PLANET, either
> (or "got" its lasting appeal... to us here).
>
> The special effects in BLADE-RUNNER are exquisite--and this was well
> before CGI stuff, remember. Phil Mead's futuristic designs were
> plausible as well as being terrific (the "spinner" cars, for
> instance). The music score by Vangelis perfectly fit the film (I can't
> imagine a John Williams-type orchestral score "fitting" the mood of
> the movie quite as well). And Rutger Hauer did his best work in it.
>
> All sorts of reasons to love BLADE-RUNNER. But if you don't, then hey,
> it's alright. Some people like oysters... some like snails... it's all
> a matter of taste. Just watch out when your Roman master tells you he
> likes BOTH oysters and snails while you're washing his back in the hot
> tub--don't drop the soap, Mr. Curtis!
>
> Patrick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>