--- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:

> Haven't you seen "Babe" Jeff? :)
>
> I am still thinking about this one.
>
> One thing that terrified me about the new movie was the portrayal of
> the Orangs looking so realistic. I think it worked OK in POTA 2001
> but I still like my apes as per the original make ups (well, prior to
> the poor old rushed TV Series versions). In liked the 2001 Gorillas
> and Chimp MALES (the females...well, enough said).
>
> But yes I would even be happy with a Cartoon of Monkey Planet a la
> Boulle, or even a comic book.
>
> You know, I loved Iron Giant and I would be against a remake with
> real actors - it would lose its heart.
>
> And the cartoon could be an enjoyable, lower budget production.
>
> I wonder if Boulle did intend the apes to be "real apes"? Did he
> ever comment on the actors' portrayals/makeup?
>
> Michael

*** Hmmm... if the animation style were like the animated versions of
"WATERSHIP DOWN" and "THE PLAGUE DOGS", done in realistic fashion by
Brits, I'd be first in line. Anybody else here ever see those flicks?
I thought they were fantastic. I haven't read the books they're based
on, but these two animated movies are 2 of the 10 best ones ever made,
in my opinion.

Patrick

>
> --- <veetus@e...> wrote:
> > If they look too real it might take people out of the movie and
> turn into
> > "Lancelot Link". I think having actors in makeup gives the audience
> a kind
> > of comfort zone. Kassidy Raetc. - - - Jeff
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <MTotsky@a...>
> > To: <pota@y...>
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 9:11 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] How about this for a POTA film?
> >
> >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 9/26/02 12:06:51 AM, veetus@e...
> writes:
> > >
> > > << The makeup in the new
> > > one worked fine for me, the problem was the script and all the
> CGI in the
> > > world wouldn't cover that. >>
> > >
> > > I'm not saying tht I have a problem with the makeup (in the
> originals or
> > in
> > > POTA: 2001), it's just that they don't look like "real" apes
> (like at the
> > zoo
> > > or on Animal Planet). The only way it you could do that would by
> CGI. It
> > > would be a true "reimagining." Actors and makeup will always draw
> > comparisons
> > > to the original.
> > >
> > > Matt
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ ---------------------
> ~-->
> > Home Selling? Try Us!
> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/QrPZMC/iTmEAA/MVfIAA/9_IolB/TM
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> -~->
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> >
> >
> >

.htmlIn a message dated 9/28/02 12:40:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

*** Rory, I'm sorry, but I gotta disagree with where you place the
Statue of Liberty. You got it on the coast of Dead Lake, rather than
on the shoreline of the ocean ("at the bottom" of the map).

I didn't do that, somebody else here did.  It was the only map photo I had saved at the time I posted it.  I've since gone back into the archives and retrieved the map photo with all the junk on it.

There's no way I would have placed things where they are on that map.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/28/02 12:40:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

That horsie ride along the shoreline, even at a gallop, would probably
take longer than a week if he's riding from North Carolina up to what
once was the harbor where the Statue of Liberty ends up.

Everyone seems to misunderstand me here.  I think Ape City is in an area where Northern North Carolina was.  If I had to place Cornelius' cave, I'd put it along the Atlantic shore about at where Ocean City, Maryland is, or perhaps the southern most tip of New Jersey.  Delaware Bay would be gone.  Get a damn map and take a look.

Too bad we can't all get into one room and discuss this in person so we'd all understand each other.

-- Rory
<.html

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:

> Bonobos are great apes, along with chimpanzees, orangutans, and gorillas.
> Because we share so many characteristics with these simian species, some scientists contend that humans should be classified as apes too.
>
> <A HREF="http://www.bonobo.org/whatisbo.htmlquot;>http://www.bonobo.org/whatisbo.htmllt;/A>
>
>
> We should be classified as Great Apes. I'm all for it. Who's with me?
>
> -- Rory

*** Rory, you of all people should know that SOME Apes, it seems, are
More Great (Greater) than others...
Howard the Duck (the great comic, NOT the shitty Lucas flick) called
humans "hairless apes". Of course, that didn't stop him from shacking
up with a hottie human female...

Patrick

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 9/28/02 12:40:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
>
> > That horsie ride along the shoreline, even at a gallop, would probably take longer than a week if he's riding from North Carolina up to what once was the harbor where the Statue of Liberty ends up.

> Everyone seems to misunderstand me here. I think Ape City is in an area where Northern North Carolina was. If I had to place Cornelius' cave, I'd put it along the Atlantic shore about at where Ocean City, Maryland is, or perhaps the southern most tip of New Jersey. Delaware Bay would be gone. Get a damn map and take a look.
>
> Too bad we can't all get into one room and discuss this in person so we'd all understand each other.
>
> -- Rory

*** I just don't think the total area (in square miles) of Cornelius'
map covers as much area as your hypothesis. The trek from Landon's
flag to the "green area" where they're hunted is for "many days and
nights" as Zira suggests--but they only had enough food and water for
3 days, and they were on foot walking across a desert and at one point
they traverse what Zira calls "mountains". By the time they find the
Scarecrows and the Waterfall, they've gone through the last 8 ounces
of the water they had left after the Big Rock tumbled down at them. If
they had to hoof it much more than another day's long walk, they'd
have died of dehydration & exposure to that hot sunlight beating down
on them. Eight ounces of water ain't much to go on.
I sure as hell hope they didn't have to resort to drinking their own
urine, like Costner in "WATERWORLD" or Blackadder in one of his
Elizabethan-era episodes (the Sir Francis Drake one)! But, I suppose,
if you're desperate enough...

Patrick

Attachments :

.htmlIn a message dated 9/28/02 12:45:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Haristas@... writes:

I've since gone back into the archives and retrieved the map photo with all the junk on it.

I mean 'without' all the junk on it.

Now I'll try to explain this again.  If you agree that Cornelius is holding the map sideways and that what is on the right of this map is in actuallity the 'north,' then I think it makes sense that this map is supposed to depict the area around what is now Chesapeak Bay.
It's the only body of water on the east coast of the US large enough to be the 'inland sea' of PLANET.

Now it would help if you went and got yourself a good map of the east coast because this was the only image I could find on the web and it doesn't have state borders or city and towns indicated.

But, remembering where Cornelius and Taylor point to things on this map in PLANET, I would say the 'dead sea' or the 'inland sea' is what's left of Chesapeake Bay.  The 'greenbelt' where the cornfield was where Taylor is captured would be where central Virginia is now, perhaps a little southeast of Lynchburg.  Where Cornelius indicates Ape City is, I would place in North Carolina somewhere between the towns of Henderson and Roanoke Rapids.  Cornelius' cave could be anywhere along the Atlantic coast from where the inland sea enters the Atlantic to where Taylor's arm enters the picture above.  Now I think that where Taylor's arm is on the picture is the area that was southern-most New Jersey.  Remember that I've said Delaware Bay is gone.  Since most of you think Taylor couldn't have rode up the shore very long after he left the apes at the cave, then I would place the cave around where Ocean City, Maryland was or at the southern most tip on New Jersey.   That way Taylor just has to ride up the Jersey coast to find the Statue of Liberty.  I would also say that the islands of Staten and Long in what was New York State are gone by 3978 since we don't see them in PLANET and they would be visable.

AND OF COURSE, this doesn't work for BENEATH THE PLANET OF THE APES, where the filmmakers really screwed things up by making it seem as if Ape City were on Long Island.

-- Rory <.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/28/02 1:27:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

*** I just don't think the total area (in square miles) of Cornelius'
map covers as much area as your hypothesis. The trek from Landon's
flag to the "green area" where they're hunted is for "many days and
nights" as Zira suggests--but they only had enough food and water for
3 days, and they were on foot walking across a desert and at one point
they traverse what Zira calls "mountains". By the time they find the
Scarecrows and the Waterfall, they've gone through the last 8 ounces
of the water they had left after the Big Rock tumbled down at them. If
they had to hoof it much more than another day's long walk, they'd
have died of dehydration & exposure to that hot sunlight beating down
on them. Eight ounces of water ain't much to go on.

No, 8 ounces isn't that much, but if you go back and look at PLANET you'll see that all the astronauts lips are dry and parched by the time they see the scarecrows, so I believe they're out of water by that time, hence there reaction to finding the pool.

If you think I'm trying to encompass too vast an area of the eastern US, then I could except that the 'inland sea' of PLANET is what is left of Delaware Bay, and that it is Chesapeake Bay that is gone.  That would shrink the area down enough to satisfy you and make me happy, even though I do think the inland sea on Cornelius' map just looks too much like Chesapeake Bay for it not to be that.

-- Rory<.html

Attachments :

.htmlThis is another concept of the Icarus ship that I like.  I can imagine this entire craft re-entering the atmosphere, then the nose section disengaging for final descent.  However, from BENEATH it seems the filmmakers imagined the craft landing vertically.

<.html

Attachments :

.htmlHere's a couple of pictures of that side panel on the mock up ship in PLANET.  It was left open when the filmed and can be seen in the movie.  Why they did that I don't understand because it really ruins the suspension of disbelief (Though I must confess that as a kid I saw PLANET nine times in a theatre between 1968 and 1974, and I never noticed the panel being open!  It wasn't until I had PLANET on VHS that I started noticing flaws.)  By the way, in PLANET when you see the hatch blow off you can also see the windows pop out and the cover of the side panel flap up.



<.html

I saw "The Plague Dogs," then read the book by Richard Adams. They did a
great job of editing 8 hours worth of material into a movie of
reasonable length.

The Brits seem to have more respect for source material than American
film producers. I can just imagine the Hollywood version with the Taco
Bell chihuahua and a happy ending.

Anthony

On Saturday, September 28, 2002, at 11:39 AM, patrickmichaeltilton
wrote:

> *** Hmmm... if the animation style were like the animated versions of
> "WATERSHIP DOWN" and "THE PLAGUE DOGS", done in realistic fashion by
> Brits, I'd be first in line. Anybody else here ever see those flicks?
> I thought they were fantastic. I haven't read the books they're based
> on, but these two animated movies are 2 of the 10 best ones ever made,
> in my opinion.
>
> Patrick

In a message dated 9/28/02 11:54:22 AM, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

<< This is sitting on a very affordable price and I would say it is not

> a common item.
>
> I paid $200 for mine. >>

this last one went for 90 bucks

In a message dated 9/28/02 12:39:57 PM, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

<< ......up to what
once was the harbor where the Statue of Liberty ends up. >>

could the statue not have broken and floated around and washed up anywhere
along the coast not necessarily in the bay off Manhattan?

Go away for a couple of weeks and you miss alot here. I've noticed
that there have been more posts this month that all but one since
the club started. It's going to take me forever to catch up.

I agree. I liked Burke much more than Virdon. Burke at least had a
sense of humor. Virdon was way too serious.

--- In pota@y..., MTotsky@a... wrote:
>
> I wish he wouldn't be such a "fuddy-duddy" about it. I really like
the show
> and I think Pete Burke is probably my favorite character. I think
Naughton
> did a great job given the material he had to work with. Too bad he
doesn't
> share my opinion.
>
> Matt

You're assuming that when they made Beneath they were thinking that
the ape revolt and the nuclear war were concurrent events as
portrayed in the later films. From the evidence in Planet and
Beneath alone you can assume the nuclear war was in the late 20th-
early 21st centuries. However, there is nothing in either film that
apes rose until much later. Once they started doing the sequals they
realized they had written themselves into a corner and addressed it
the best they could.

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> I think it was a screw-up because Dehn didn't seem to read in
Boulle's book
> were it took generations for the apes to take over. He should
have somehow
> shown that New York City was destroyed in a nuclear war that took
place a
> long time after the astronauts left.

I never really liked the series myself and for the some of the same
reasons I didn't like the new film. The series seemed like a dumbed-
down version of POTA. Plus it didn't pick-up any of the plotlines or
lore from the films.

--- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> When the show came out, it didn't bother me. There was something
> else POTA to watch and that was enough. I guess it was
a "religous"
> approach - that to knock anything POTA was blasphemy and that's
> that. I have to wonder how I would have reacted to the Burton
movie
> were it released in 1978. What do you think Rory? I think it
stinks
> now, but I am harder to please these days.
>
> Michael

.htmlIn a message dated 9/28/02 2:40:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, apefan23@... writes:

could the statue not have broken and floated around and washed up anywhere
along the coast not necessarily in the bay off Manhattan?

The statue would not float, and in actuality is highly unlikely to survive for two thousand years to look like what it did at the end of PLANET.  Maybe if it where solid stainless steel, but not an iron framework and nickel-thick plates of copper.  It would disintegrate completely in a couple hundred years, and a nuclear blast would blow it apart.

I wonder if on 9/11 the terrorist had flown a plane into the Statue of Liberty how much of it would be left?  It would get rebuilt though.  We've still got the plans and molds from the restoration.

-- Rory<.html

Wasn't his brother the Dr. Pepper guy?

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> In 1978? I would have thought Burton's POTA stank big time. A
truly bad
> movie is a stinker forever.
>
> About James Naughton. . . . Let's get Kassidy to give us his
address, then
> let's all write letters to him telling how much we love him in the
POTA TV
> show and that no matter what else he's done or ever will do that's
all we'll
> remember him for, then let's tell him that his brother will be
better
> remembered for "An American Werewolf in London." That ought to
get him.
> Who's with me?

.htmlIn a message dated 9/28/02 2:47:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

Go away for a couple of weeks and you miss alot here. I've noticed
that there have been more posts this month that all but one since
the club started. It's going to take me forever to catch up.

While you're catching up try to learn that it's A LOT, not "alot"!!!!<.html

You mean Logan's Run, "the sexiest movie ever". LOL Sorry for
quoting Friends.

--- In pota@y..., "Kassidy Rae" <valwp@y...> wrote:
> Well, you know how I feel about the show. I loved it. I look at
the
> dvds and still love it. And yes, I know the scripts were in need
of
> help--especially "Tomorrow's Tide". Don't care, loved it anyway.
I
> can watch something and even if it's flawed, it doesn't ruin the
> good: the three leads, the music, and always always the apes. You
> can't tell me those guys didn't rise above some of the lines they
had
> to work with.
>
> I do know one other thing, and that is Mr. Naughton's son Greg
loved
> the show. He loved the set, and riding. Can you imagine how great
> that must have been to a kid?
>
> By the way, if you want to look at a really bad sci-fi series at
> around the same time, check out "Logan's Run". I loved it back
then,
> but whew is it poor. Still, I like watching it. Who knows why?
> Don't whiz on my cheese.
>
> Kassidy

You're so right, Rory, The fugitive format was a really bad idea. I
would of prefered something that would of explored the Apes culture
more.

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> Roddy never seemed to have a truly nasty thing to say about anyone
or
> anything. In the interview on the BEHIND S.E. DVD (Do the new
guys in the
> group know about that? Does Kassidy?) he does call the TV show
ill-conceived
> -- and he's right about that.
>
> By the way, here's what I posted on IMDb.com about the TV series
(I haven't
> got around to commenting on the original movie yet.):
> <A HREF="http://us.imdb.com/CommentsIndex?71033">Comments
index</A> for "Planet of the Apes" (1974)
>
> <A HREF="http://us.imdb.com/CommentsAuthor?952921">haristas</A>
> USA
>
> Date: 6 August 2002
> Summary: ill-conceived and dull
>
>
> > By the time CBS started airing this show on Friday nights in
September 1974,
> > the PLANET OF THE APES had really been milked to death. What had
been such
> > a unique, intriguing and fun science fiction concept in 1968
when the
> > original film starring Charlton Heston was released, had by the
fourth film
> > sequel in 1973 been intellectually emasculated down to barely
interesting
> > kiddie fare. Any possible allegorical or satirical take on apes
talking had
> > been explored and there was really no place left to go. The
producer,
> > Arthur P. Jacobs, wisely called it quits. But then, in September
1973, the
> > original film was shown for the first time on network TV and had
a sixty
> > share of that night's audience. APES was suddenly "hot" again,
but the fact
> > remained that there were already five films. The resulting TV
series ended
> > up being a rather ill-conceived "Fugitive" formula show that
only played
> > lip service to the concept's allegorical possibilities by
reminding its
> > audience in every episode of the stupidity of prejudice. This
got rather
> > trite fast. Also, the makeup for the apes, which had been done
well in the
> > original film, was too often applied rather slapdash here due to
the rushed
> > nature of TV production, with the result that suspension of
disbelief for
> > anybody over the age of ten became quit difficult if not
impossible. Series
> > star, Roddy McDowall, veteran of four of the five APES films,
had by this
> > time played a chimpanzee in nearly every conceivable way and so
opted
> > primarily for whimsy with the character of Galen here. This
began to grate
> > quickly as well. The result was that the audience for this show
was mostly
> > kids and that demographic couldn't attract the kind of sponsor
dollars the
> > network needed, so the show died a merciful death after only
fourteen
> > episodes. Any fans of the show now are those kids that loved it
then and
> > are on a nostalgia trip. I saw the original film in 1968 when I
was eight
> > years old. It was instantly my favorite movie and remains so
today, but
> > this TV series should never have been made.
> >
> >
> And that's how I feel about it. Sorry Kassidy.

Funny you mention One Million B.C. The first time I saw Planet it
was on a double bill with that film. I remember my mother saying "4
hours at the movies and the only ones to talk were apes".

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> Kassidy, you're so cool. I got my favorite bad things too ("Logan
Run -- the
> movie" really stinks too, but at least it has a Jerry Goldsmith
score. And
> no, I don't like either of them.) ONE MILLION YEARS B.C. is truly
bad, but I
> love it. There's also this space vampire movie called LIFEFORCE
that stinks
> too, but I like that. It's certain things in certain movies that
just appeal
> to you.

I guess they didn't want to confuse people with Corneluis 1 and
Cornelius 2. But Roddy is listed on the cast list posted on the IMDB
site.

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> In BENEATH Lou Wagner gets listed at the end credits, but he's
only seen in
> the footage from PLANET at the beginning, yet Roddy McDowall is
also in the
> footage, but not in the credits at the end. What's up with that?

Do you take it out and play with it when he comes over?

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> I'd love to see "Space Academy", which featured our own Eric
Greene.
> Anyone seen that show from the late '70's. I have the actual Eric
Greene
> action figure. It's great. He hates it! - - - Jeff

Attachments :

.htmlIn a message dated 9/28/02 3:25:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

Funny you mention One Million B.C. The first time I saw Planet it
was on a double bill with that film. I remember my mother saying "4
hours at the movies and the only ones to talk were apes".

                                                                     EAT ME!!!!!
<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/28/02 3:31:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

Do you take it out and play with it when he comes over?

The High Potentate of PotAdom takes it out and plays with all the time.  It's his right.

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
>   I'd love to see "Space Academy", which featured our own Eric
Greene.
> Anyone seen that show from the late '70's. I have the actual Eric
Greene
> action figure. It's great. He hates it! - - - Jeff

<.html

Doesn't Roddy say in the interview on disc 2 of the Behind DVD that
one of the problems with CBS is that they wanted to show to
concentrate more on the humans than on the apes.

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> Some of you TV show fans I just don't understand. One of the BIG
problems
> with the show was NOT ENOUGH APES. We were almost always having
to watch the
> problems humans were having. Who cares about humans, the filthy
things!
>
> -- Rory

When after Battle? After the Lawgiver scenes or after the flashback
part of the film?
I like the idea, its more interesting than the TV series concept.

--- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> It could have taken up after Battle.
>
> There could have been unrest in the ape community with a secret
> organisation of Aldo worshippers (this could also explain how
history
> is re-wriotten by these apes to have Aldo the hero, much like the
> Nazis attempted to re-write history books).
>
> This can be compounded by the landing of astronauts - 1 can die
> (obligatory), 2 can be "good" and 1 can go nuts and lead a
militant
> anti-ape group that tries to exterminate the apes and re-take
> civilization.
>
> There is a lot to play with.
>
> I still think the next ape movie should be a better version of
> Beneath - ie another, different sequel to the original. It can
pay
> homage to Boulle's original script and could be properly planned
(god
> forbid).
>
> Michael
>
> --- mlccougar@a... wrote:
> > In a message dated 9/19/02 11:25:12 AM Central Daylight Time,
> valwp@y...
> > writes:
> >
> >
> > > So, I don't know if this has been discussed before (probably),
> but
> > > WAS there anywhere left to go with POTA by the time it became
a
> tv
> > > series?
> > >
> >
> > They coulda delved deeper into the Apes culture itself for a
> start... It also
> > coulda showed more of the de-evolution of humanity (had they had
> them mutes
> > to begin with though, then this option would be moot...)
> >

Sounds like the idea for Escape.

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> Oh, I remember them. It's too late for me to go to the IMDb.com
to look them
> up, but IT'S ABOUT TIME had two astronauts go back in time to live
with this
> cave family in the stone age, then the astronauts took them to
modern times.
> The other show did not star Wally Cox. I don't remember his name
but I do
> remember the name of the show, I even remember the melody of its
theme, MR.
> TERRIFIC!
>
> -- Rory

I've always consider the TV series to be a completely different
universe than the movies. It just took the concepts of the movies
and went off in its own direction as was common practice with TV
show adapted from movies at that time such as MASH & The Odd Couple.

--- In pota@y..., MTotsky@a... wrote:
> Yes I agree that Burke and Virdon were from the original timeline -
the circular one! Perhaps they did mention Zira and Cornelius -
offscreen. They definately did not seem as bent out of shape about
being on the POTA as Taylor did. Maybe because it was easier for
them to put two and two together, having already heard about Zira
and Cornelius.
>
> Matt

Planet of the Really Big Headed Apes???

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> <A HREF="http://cgi.aol.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&item=1768766972#DESC">Click here: eBay item 1768766972
(Ends Sep-24-02 19:22:57 PDT ) - Planet of
> the Apes Tuscany Plaster Statues</A>
>
> I've never seen these before, but Oh! Do they put the ugh in ugly!
> [Unable to display image]

--- In pota@y..., Melkor <melkor@e...> wrote:

> Claude Akins:
> BJ and the Bear
>

Don't forget that great TV series Sheriff Lobo.

> Don Murray:
> ?? Has he done anything else?

Bus Stop with Marilyn Monroe and Knots Landing.

>
> Paul Stevens
> ??

He was Patton's aide in Patton.

I was so happy when Nixon resigned because I was afraid the
Impeachment hearing would pre-empt the POTA TV series.

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> Well, for a period (1967-1976) when, as you say, liberalism was
popular, I
> seem to remember this guy named Richard Nixon got elected
President twice,
> and by a landslide the second time. The APES franchise died out
simply
> because Fox spent less and less money on it and its audience
shrank. You say
> that the height of POTA's popularity was 1973-74. That's not
really true.
> In 1968, the original film grossed $15 million. In 1973, BATTLE
grossed $4
> million. What had been a novel film attraction for all audiences
in '68 had
> by '73 become primarily of interest only to kids, teenagers and
die-hard
> fans. The reason the TV show got made was GREED. The big ratings
that the
> movies got on their first network showings made everyone think
most people
> wanted more adventures on the planet of the apes, but the TV show
was nearly
> alway like number 48 in the ratings rankings. Fox lost so much
money on the
> show that that's why the coupled episodes together to make those
ridiculously
> titled TV "movies."
>
> These are just the facts. I have no trouble facing them. Believe
me I wish
> it were otherwise, but it's not. Now I watched BATTLE not too
long ago and
> was surprised by how much I enjoyed seeing it again. I'm learning
to forgive
> its faults, and I've said before in this group that the TV show is
what it
> is. It's not fair to compair it to the original movie, but even
as a TV show
> the APES series used a tired "Fugitive" formula that doomed it.
It really
> gets boring fast to see our heroes at the end of every episode go
running off
> into the woods, or over the hill, or down the beach to their next
adventure
> which is going to be just like the last one -- somebody has got a
problem and
> before the hour is up our heroes will solve it to go running off
again to the
> next installment. For me it's BORING!
>
> Hey, if you think it's great, more power to you. The POTA TV show
should
> have all the devoted fans it can get, and that goes for all the
other things
> APES.
>
> If you want to start this liberalism vs. conservatism thing in
regards to
> POTA that's okay. Ever notice that in the original film even
though the
> movie is supposed to be anti-conservatism, that's Dr. Zaius who
gets his way
> at the end?
>
> -- Rory

A clock on a spaceship wouldn't work the same way. Most likely that
kind of clock would measure the relative drift of a group of stars
to measure the passage of time. The dates mentioned in Beneath &
Escape were both taken from orbit allowing for a cleaner reading.
The time reading in Planet would be distorted because of
interference from the atmosphere.

--- In pota@y..., "Richard Cisak Jr." <rcisak@o...> wrote:
> Don't forget, a clock doesn't "detect" what date/time it is
(except for those ones which connect via radio with the atomic clock
at the National Observatory).

Attachments :

.htmlI have these but I think the ship is too small. I like the ship drawing rory posted earlier.

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
>  I wish they had better pictures of this item.  Looks pretty interesting.  I
> think Patrick would love it.

<.html

.html

Reminds me of that movie with Matthew Broderick and Helen Hunt,
about chimps being used by the military to test fly jets.

Speaking of chimps...Jane Goodall is going IMAX.  That'll be interesting.  And Fifi and Goblin are still alive.  Fifi is now the matriarch.

<.html

Seen it and still have a copy of it.

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> Is there anyone here who's never seen this issue of Mad?
>
> [Unable to display image]

.html

3978 dammit!!!

I don't know.  Seems to me at least a year has passed.  It's ridiculous to think they'd send a rescue mission at all!  It was an Adam and Eve mission.  And a ridiculous crew for that I might add.  Should have been three women and one man if you only have room for four.  Hell, you could replace him with a few frozen vials and a turkey baster!
<.html

I thought correcting spelling was Patrick's job.

--- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> You ask for comments then you go correcting spelling?
>
> Sir, please make up your mind.
>
> Mykel

Why did God create Staten Island???

To spare Brooklyn a view of New Jersey!!!!

--- In pota@y..., "Richard Cisak Jr." <rcisak@o...> wrote:
> What I always loved about that map - what happened to Staten
Island?

Sounds good to me. I'm sure Rory wouldn't mind putting us all up at
his place.

--- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> We should all meet in Florida, dressed in full ape regalia, and
hold
> banners saying "The end is nigh" and "Taylor is coming"
>
> Michael

Could be either. But why would they put wings on it if it didn't
need to be aerodynamic.

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> OK, nows here's a picture of Brent's ship after it has crashed.
How do you
> think this ship was landing? Vertically or Horizontally. I think
it might
> have been vertically and it landed hard and fell over. We really
don't know
> how the "Icarus" was supposed to land.
>
> [Unable to display image]

.html

it's A LOT, not "alot"!!!!

Unless it's ALOTTA.
But you don't get alotta that.
<.html

Sounds the most logical explaination to me.

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
>
>
>
> Here's another shot of Brent's ship. So, what is the structure
sticking up
> out of the wreckage? Is it a landing leg?
>
> [Unable to display image]

Those bays would be right after the red and blue stripes. Part of
the ship that's still intact. (Also the part that was cut off in
Escape.)

--- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> I would have thought it was supposed to be part of the frame.
>
> I think the ship was coming down nose first on an angle around 45
> degrees then lost control and the "stomach" of the ship dragged,
> leaving the pilot area intact.
>
> Hmm....maybe this is a bad angle, but isn't there wreckage where
the
> suspended animation bays should be?
>
> Michael
>

No its because I haven't been home for 2 weeks. As far as my
original post:

--- In pota@y..., "james611102" <JamesA1102@a...> wrote:
> Read that AMC has listed "Apes on AMC" as a special for the next
> season that begins in the fall. Maybe its another marathon weekend
> for the 35th Anniversary or something else. If anyone knows any
> details please tell.

I asked a question based on something I read in AdAge. For all I
know they're doing a King Kong and Bonzo goes to College marathon.
If anyone knows of further details it would be appreciated.

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> There's a guy here who says that AMC already has something like
that planned
> for next year, but I think he's pulling our legs. His name is
James and we
> haven't heard from him lately. I think because we all knew he was
BSing us.
>
> -- Rory

I have an unanswered question, what made Taylor's (and Brent's)
spaceships return to Earth in the first place. There seems to be a
theory on everything else.

--- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> Recently Rory asked a question about where you could have gone in
the
> TV series that had not already been covered.
>
> I actually made a lengthy response that was lost in the electronic
> domain.
>
> Essentially, I believe the first movie contained cues for a sequel
> that were not addressed. One that WAS addressed was the Forbidden
> Zone, but I feel there is still much that could be uncovered there.
>
> One that was NOT addressed was the trial of Cornelius and Zira.
>
> Anyone have any more?
>
> Any ideas on what could have been in the Forbidden Zone other than
> Mutants? Obviously, it was a hot spot for "in your face" evidence
of
> mankind's prior dominance, so what might you have included in the
> Forbidden Zone if Beneath had not yet been scripted?
>
> I still like the idea of a sequel to the original movie. Maybe
there
> could be a twist at the end where Brent's ship lands.....
>
> Michael

Thank you oh high one of apedom;-)

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> He's not pulling MY leg. Speak for yourself. - - - Goob
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Haristas@a...
> To: pota@y...
> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 5:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] 11/25
>
>
> In a message dated 9/24/02 8:30:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
rcisak@o... writes:
>
>
>
> We should all write to AMC and ask them to re-run the marathon
weekend again.
>
>
>
> There's a guy here who says that AMC already has something like
that planned for next year, but I think he's pulling our legs. His
name is James and we haven't heard from him lately. I think because
we all knew he was BSing us.
>
> -- Rory
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.

I'm out of the woodwork now. Nice to know you missed me Rory.

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 9/25/02 1:03:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> veetus@e... writes:
>
>
> > He's not pulling MY leg. Speak for yourself. - - - Goob
> >
> >
>
> He's currently missing in action. I'm trying to get him to come
out of the
> woodwork, the BIG STINKER!

No Michael I haven't been getting shitty. I just haven't been home
for 2 weeks.

--- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> Well, I think I've done my bit in attempting to get you guys back
on
> to POTA chatting.
>
> Rory, James is probably getting shitty about the absence of any
> substantial chatting on topic going on here. I know you have been
> trying to get us yapping on topic, but face it, when you have to
> resort to the Sock Monkey for news, things are getting bad.
>
> I have said it before and I'll say it again...in times like these
a
> bit of structure is called for. Even if we drag up old topics, we
> are ON topic and that is important.
>
> I think the mothership got hold of the 2 new guys!
>
> Michael
>
>
> --- Haristas@a... wrote:
> > [Unable to display image]
> > © Dark Horse, Tony Millionaire
> > Tony Millionaire's second children's book, SOCK MONKEY: THE
GLASS
> DOORKNOB
> >
> >
> > Book News
> > Millionaire's New SOCK MONKEY out today
> > SOCK MONKEY: THE GLASS DOOR KNOB ships from Dark Horse
> >
> > Acclaimed cartoonist and illustrator Tony Millionaire's most
recent
> book,
> > SOCK MONKEY: THE GLASS DOOR KNOB, hits shelves today from Dark
> Horse Comics
> > ..
> > The book features Millionaire's characters Sock Monkey and Mr.
Crow
> as did
> > a
> > prior book, SOCK MONKEY: A CHILDREN'S BOOK. The characters are
also
> feature
> > d
> > in the Dark Horse comic book title SOCK MONKEY. Millionaire is
also
> the
> > author and artist of the syndicated alternative feature strip,
> DRINKY CROW.
> >
> > Millionaire's work is characterized by detailed, old-fashioned-
> seeming pen
> >
> > and ink drawings. The plot of this book, which is intended for
> children,
> > concerns the Sock Monkey's interest in and concern over a glass
> door knob a
> > s
> > the seasons of the year change, shifting the lighting conditions
> within the
> >
> > house. The book is hardcover, 40 pages long, and priced at
$14.95.
> >
> > Sock Monkey?!!! I thought that was something the High Potentate
> uses to
> > entertain himself!
> >
> > -- Rory
> >

Attachments :

.htmlI'd add the missing arm from the last overhead shot of the statue of liberty.
Here's the map you requested:

--- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> OK - I'll type this again because it got lost in cyberspace.
>
> The topic is the first movie.
>
> Could it be tidied up by a Special Edition (a la Lucas' Star Wars)
> treatment.
>
> eg fix up the problem with the hatch.
>
> Are there any other obvious ones?
>
> Like the (damned) map for example.
>
> Does anyone debate that it SHOULD show New York?  I mean, the Statue
> of Liberty is featured at the conclusion, so it sure as hell is
> reasonable that the map shows the New York region.
>
> What else is there?
>
> James, could you throw in one of your notorious maps please?
>
> Mr Cougar, can you throw in a few comments or are you being probed in
> the mothership too?
>
> Michael

<.html

I'm sorry Rory. I didn't mean to ignore you. Nice to know you missed
me so much;-)

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> James is probably still ignoring us, but here's the map with
somebody's idea
> of where things are. I think this is crazy, that the Atlantic
Ocean is the
> body of water at the bottom and the map is being held sideways.
It's the map
> in PLANET, so it doesn't work for BENEATH because they didn't know
there was
> going to be a sequel. And for the benefit of the new guys I think
the
> "inland sea" that Taylor's spaceship crashlands into is what's
left of
> Chesapeake Bay, and that Ape City is in what was north North
Carolina.
>
> OK, let's thrash this out again.
>
> [Unable to display image]

Too late. Sorry Jeff.

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> I agree. Very few people chime in anyway, so I say those who
post can talk about anything they want. Especially if it's of a
sexual nature. But please, no more Forbidden zone maps! Please! - - -
Jeff

I think they were trying to make it so moviegoers would no
immediatly recognize it as the New York area but close enough to
make sense.

--- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> Do go on.
>
> I think it is a poor map and the film-makers were not thinking in
a
> lateral geographical sense at the time - they just wanted
something a
> bit New Yorkish and forgot to address where certain things would
have
> to be according to cues from the movie.

Attachments :

.htmlwhile the area does look similar there are a few reasons why the theory doesn't work.

- there is no reason to think that the apes would orient there maps differently than we do with north at the top, south on the bottom, etc.

-Zauis refers to the forbidden zone twice as "out eastern desert". during the trial scene and later when taylor is in his office.

-maps of the two areas are shown below. (I've left out the map from the film for Jeff's sake.) while both areas are similar the scale is totally different. the chesapeake bay area is much larger. Thus taylor's route from the crash to the greenbelt would of been 80 miles rather than 30. taylor states that they only have 3 days of food and water. If the journey was 80 miles they would of been show far more sevre sign of dehydraition and malnutrition when they reached the scarecrows.

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> Jeff can ignore this.  I'm posting it for the new guys.  So what is the area
> that you think Cornelius' map shows?  Have we ever heard from Patrick on this
> one?
>
> [Unable to display image]
>  How many think the area below Taylor's hand is supposed to be Long Island?
>
>
> Well, I think it's a totally different area.   That's Chesapeake Bay on the
> right.  Taylor travelled north along the shore to find the Statue of Liberty,
> and just how far up the Atlantic coast is Cornelius' cave?
> I would also place the city in CONQUEST someplace around the Chesapeake
> Bay/Washington DC area.
> [Unable to display image]
>
> -- Rory

<.html

MMMMM Chilled human brains. But then they already did that in
Hannibal.

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> I don't think it would be laughable if the hunt scene is really
graphic and
> we see humans, including children, blown away by high-powered
rifles. Also,
> I don't think it would be laughable after we see a couple
chimpanzee surgeons
> take the skull cap off a living man and expose his brain. Talk
about creepy.

You mean the 4:30 Film Clips, they cut the damn things so much.

--- In pota@y..., "Richard Cisak Jr." <rcisak@o...> wrote:
> When I was a kid, watching this on the Channel 7 4:30 movie, I
thought it was one of the coolest movies ever. It's hard to go
wrong with a Jim Brown movie.

Illogic?? Present your evidence Cornelius...um, Rory.

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> Now if we can just get some of these "circular timeline" people to
> see the illogic of their argument.
>
> -- Rory

Humans aren't that great.

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> We should be classified as Great Apes. I'm all for it. Who's
with me?
>
> -- Rory

Attachments :

.htmlYou mean like this:

I wouldn't add any deleted scenes. the film is perfect as it is.

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
>   My choice would be fixing the time on the chronometer to 3955 so it matches the other films. And adding deleted scenes. - - - Jeff
>

<.html

EEEEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> Yeah, what's up with those bonobos? They're amazing. They're
smarter than we are, instead of fighting, they have sex. For
example, when Rory and Patrick argue about...oh, never mind. - - -
Jeff

It's made of metal. I think it would have sunk.

--- In pota@y..., apefan23@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 9/28/02 12:39:57 PM, patrickmichaeltilton@y...
writes:
>
> << ......up to what
> once was the harbor where the Statue of Liberty ends up. >>
>
> could the statue not have broken and floated around and washed up
anywhere
> along the coast not necessarily in the bay off Manhattan?

AAAAWWWWW Rory I missed you too. Really I missed you ALOT!;-)

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> While you're catching up try to learn that it's A LOT,
not "alot"!!!!

Haven't you seen the little pills all those Outer Space shows had their
astronauts take in nearly all 60's/70's space movies?

C'mon, Patrick, C'mon!

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@...]
> Sent: Sunday, 29 September 2002 0:15
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] POTA "chaloupes"...
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., "Richard Cisak Jr." <rcisak@o...> wrote:
> > Have you seen the size of the "bathroom" and "kitchen" in space
> shuttle? The two of them together could easily fit in an airline
> bathroom.
>
> *** How about that "six months' worth" (at the minimum) of Food, Water
> (or Tang), toilet paper, soap, etc.? How much room would all THAT take
> up? More than a few cubic meters, I'd bet.
>
> Patrick
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: patrickmichaeltilton
> > To: pota@y...
> > Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 9:44 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] POTA "chaloupes"...
> >
> >
> > --- In pota@y..., "Richard Cisak Jr." <rcisak@o...> wrote:
> > > "how 4 astronauts could survive for 6 months (prior to
> going into their "deep sleep") in the cramped quarters seen in
> the opening scenes. " Haven't you seen pictures on the inside of
> Mir and Space Station Alpha? Cosmonauts have lived inside of Mir
> for over a year, which is just as cramped as Heston's ship.
> >
> > *** There's a lot more room on Mir (or, there WAS until it
> fried up in
> > the atmosphere) and the Space Station than is seen to be available on
> > the Taylor-&-Brent-type ships.
> >
> > I'll ask it again: Where's the Bathroom? Where's the Kitchen?
> Is there
> > room in that ship for cargo to sustain 4 people for 6 months (and,
> > presumably, for at least the first month they spend at their
> > destination once they wake up from hibernation)? If you look at the
> > ship in BENEATH, which is probably a "sister-ship" to the one seen in
> > PLANET, then there ain't enough room for all those extra necessaries.
> > All that junk behind the part visible above the water seems to me to
> > consist of 1.) LANDING GEAR (the 3 tripodal legs), 2.) THE ROCKET
> > ENGINE'S EXHAUST BELL (clearly visible in the middle of that
> hexagonal
> > truss to which are connected those 3 landing legs), and 3.) THE FUEL
> > TANK ASSEMBLY (after all, the rocket had to have burned fuel to slow
> > its descent; too bad something went fubar and made it flop onto it's
> > belly, requiring Brent to put out an engine fuel fire with that fire
> > extinguisher).
> > Between the "back wall" of what can be seen in the cabin of the ship
> > in PLANET (with that pressure hatch in the middle), and the fuel tank
> > assembly (which can be seen aft of the side "wings" of the BENEATH
> > ship), there isn't much room there at all--most certainly not for a
> > BATHROOM and a KITCHEN (or should I call them the "Head" and the
> > "Mess" since it's a military mission?) and a CARGO HOLD. Since the
> > tripodal landing legs are where they are, it's obvious that the ship
> > Brent (crash)landed was supposed to land with the nosecone pointed
> > straight up in the air, like a Christmas tree on its stand. One
> > wonders, then, how Brent & Skipper were supposed to get out of their
> > ship--and I think the answer is that there is a small airlock behind
> > that "back wall" of the cabin, and a hatch leading from it to the
> > outside on the underside of the vessel, which could not be used for
> > egress, of course, with the ship flopped onto its belly. It was THIS
> > unfortunate circumstance which necessitated Brent leaving the ship
> > through the same forward escape hatch which Taylor's crew had to use
> > (since their aftward area was flooded, making his ship angle
> up in the
> > water, neither floating flat--like the capsule in ESCAPE--nor bobbing
> > like a buoy straight up).
> >
> > I consider these ANSA ships to be shuttlecraft. They are spaceplanes,
> > able to descend from an orbiting ship (like the Galileo 7 from the
> > U.S.S. ENTERPRISE), landing on their tripods, with enough fuel left
> > for at least one more re-ascent into orbit. That should be obvious,
> > because Milo finds one of these ships and is able to reach orbit--
> > AFTER that ship had first landed FROM orbit.
> >
> > Feel free to argue for what you consider to be a more plausible
> > explanation, though.
> >
> > Patrick
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

The point is, Patrick, you justified a crazy idea of yours based on your
(crazy) interpretation of (and liberties taken with) a line by Taylor that
Stewart is the most precious cargo. You essentially claim that this
justifies your crazy conclusion that there is a mothership or even that it
is a cargo ship, or even that there is the need for an enormous amount of
cargo.

My point is that referring to Stewart as precious cargo does not lead to any
such conclusions.

And yes, there is a common feeling here that you are a gold medalist in the
conclusions jump, and that can be applied to nearly everything you "prove".

Now if you are not imaginative enough to work out how a 60's movie would
address shitting, pissing and eating in space, maybe you need to invent a
mothership then spend years being ridiculed about the silly ways you justify
this.

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@...]
> Sent: Sunday, 29 September 2002 0:25
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Precious Cargo
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > Hold everything!
> >
> > My wife gave me a lift home yesterday.
> >
> > She looked in the back of the car and said "these 4 kids are the most
> > precious cargo in the car!"
> >
> > I immediately started looking for the kitchen and the toilet.
> >
> > I then asked why the car was not 20 foot long.
> >
> > My wife told me she thinks I am insane.
> >
> > I think she has a point.
> >
> > Michael
>
> *** Hmmm... Hey, Mike--howzabout spending half a year in that car (no
> gettin' out all during that time, since its a "deep space" vacuum out
> there, remember), without a toilet of SOME kind.
> Then give all of us Yahoo groupies a jingle on yer radio, like Taylor
> making his "final report", and tell us how great things are going in
> your little "chaloupe".
> And then sleep for a year... and, hopefully, your wife won't be all
> shriveled up like Stewart when you wake up.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Oh boy.

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@...]
> Sent: Sunday, 29 September 2002 0:34
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: POTA question
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> > OK, nows here's a picture of Brent's ship after it has crashed.
> How do you think this ship was landing? Vertically or
> Horizontally. I think it might have been vertically and it
> landed hard and fell over. We really don't know how the "Icarus"
> was supposed to land.
> >
> > [Unable to display image]
>
> *** That thing sticking up into the air at the aftmost part of the
> ship (just above the engine bell, which can be seen when Brent
> approaches Nova on her horse) is one of three landing legs, attached
> at 3 of the 6 sides of the hexagonal truss surrounding the engine bell
> (every other one of the sides, at the "12 o'clock" position [on top,
> the thing sticking up], the "4 o'clock" position, and the "8 o'clock"
> position). It's a tripod, and the rocket exhaust was obviously doing
> "retro-rocket" work during the landing.
> Maybe it's just obvious to ME, but I don't see any other reasonable
> explanation for what's portrayed in this image of Brent's wrecked
> ship.
>
> Patrick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Hey, Patrick, can you use a name that a dumb Aussie could draw a parallel
to? I have no idea who Daddy Warbucks is....

Michael

> >
> > I paid $200 for mine.
> >
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1769132722
> >
> > Michael
>
> *** Pardon me while I pick up my lower jaw from the floor...
>
> TWO HUNDRED BUCKS FOR A "POTA" HELICOPTER?!!!!
>
> Who are ya... Daddy Warbucks?
>
> Patrick

I haven't seen them, but I agree it would need to be QUALITY graphics.

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@...]
> Sent: Sunday, 29 September 2002 2:40
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] How about this for a POTA film?
>
> *** Hmmm... if the animation style were like the animated versions of
> "WATERSHIP DOWN" and "THE PLAGUE DOGS", done in realistic fashion by
> Brits, I'd be first in line. Anybody else here ever see those flicks?
> I thought they were fantastic. I haven't read the books they're based
> on, but these two animated movies are 2 of the 10 best ones ever made,
> in my opinion.
>
> Patrick

.htmlIn a message dated 9/28/02 12:27:28 PM Central Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

By the time they find the
Scarecrows and the Waterfall, they've gone through the last 8 ounces
of the water they had left after the Big Rock tumbled down at them. If
they had to hoof it much more than another day's long walk, they'd
have died of dehydration & exposure to that hot sunlight beating down
on them. Eight ounces of water ain't much to go on.
I sure as hell hope they didn't have to resort to drinking their own
urine, like Costner in "WATERWORLD" or Blackadder in one of his
Elizabethan-era episodes (the Sir Francis Drake one)! But, I suppose,
if you're desperate enough...

Patrick

I have seen a photo of an unused scene which shows the astronauts under a vinyl dew collector which could double as a shelter. The dew collected on that could be a source for their water for the rest of their trek... (By the way, this dew collector is the same yellow piece Dodge wears in the cornfield sequence...)<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: Haristas@... [Haristas@...]
Sent: Sunday, 29 September 2002 2:51
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Cartography of the Planet of the Apes

In a message dated 9/28/02 12:40:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

That horsie ride along the shoreline, even at a gallop, would probably
take longer than a week if he's riding from North Carolina up to what
once was the harbor where the Statue of Liberty ends up.

Everyone seems to misunderstand me here.  I think Ape City is in an area where Northern North Carolina was.  If I had to place Cornelius' cave, I'd put it along the Atlantic shore about at where Ocean City, Maryland is, or perhaps the southern most tip of New Jersey.  Delaware Bay would be gone.  Get a damn map and take a look.

Too bad we can't all get into one room and discuss this in person so we'd all understand each other.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

<.html

That makes sense - as the collectors get an item its value decreases.

There was one guy who would randomly buy and sell his collection. He would
have easily pushed the price to $500 if he did not have it and wanted it
(and would oftn seel for a fraction of that....then buy it again years
later).

It's a sickness......

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: apefan23@... [apefan23@...]
> Sent: Sunday, 29 September 2002 4:15
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Rare ebay item
>
>
>
> In a message dated 9/28/02 11:54:22 AM,
> patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:
>
> << This is sitting on a very affordable price and I would say it is not
> > a common item.
> >
> > I paid $200 for mine. >>
>
> this last one went for 90 bucks

Wouldn't it have sunk?

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: apefan23@... [apefan23@...]
> Sent: Sunday, 29 September 2002 4:22
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Cartography of the Planet of the Apes
>
>
>
> In a message dated 9/28/02 12:39:57 PM,
> patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:
>
> << ......up to what
> once was the harbor where the Statue of Liberty ends up. >>
>
> could the statue not have broken and floated around and washed up
> anywhere
> along the coast not necessarily in the bay off Manhattan?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Welcome back James!

> -----Original Message-----
> From: james611102 [JamesA1102@...]
> Sent: Sunday, 29 September 2002 4:46
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] WOW!!!
>
>
> Go away for a couple of weeks and you miss alot here. I've noticed
> that there have been more posts this month that all but one since
> the club started. It's going to take me forever to catch up.
>

.htmlIn a message dated 9/28/02 5:30:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

I have an unanswered question, what made Taylor's (and Brent's)
spaceships return to Earth in the first place. There seems to be a
theory on everything else.

I have no theory on this except that if they didn't we'd have no movie.  But, I'll bet Patrick will have a mighty good.  Oh my God!!!  Wait until he gets his own computer!

Maybe it was a Hasslein curve that slingshot them back to earth?  How's that for a theory?

-- Rory<.html

Is that a dew collector or a sun shield? Even if it is a dew
collector I don't think it could collect enough water to sustain
three men in desert conditions.

>In pota@y..., mlccougar@a... wrote:
> I have seen a photo of an unused scene which shows the astronauts

under a

> vinyl dew collector which could double as a shelter. The dew

collected on

> that could be a source for their water for the rest of their

trek... (By the

> way, this dew collector is the same yellow piece Dodge wears in

the cornfield

> sequence...)

Hasslein curve? Is that before or after the Einstein off ramp?

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> I have no theory on this except that if they didn't we'd have no
movie. But,
> I'll bet Patrick will have a mighty good. Oh my God!!! Wait
until he gets
> his own computer!
>
> Maybe it was a Hasslein curve that slingshot them back to earth?
How's that
> for a theory?
>
> -- Rory

.htmlIn a message dated 9/28/02 5:56:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

Illogic?? Present your evidence Cornelius...um, Rory.

My logic is simply:  Zira and Cornelius have to meet Taylor and his spaceship first before they can return to earth's past, therefore a planet of apes has to come into being FIRST, independent of the apes coming from the future into the past, so that Taylor can crashland there and the apes can get his ship.

Timelines, baby!!!   Timelines.  There's lots of 'em, and they don't go in circles.  Patrick, please explain this to them!!!!

-- Rory<.html

Oh, sorry James, I mean after the Lawgiver scenes - which seem so happy on
the surface...it would just be SO Planet of the Apes to go and ruin that
happiness....

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: james611102 [JamesA1102@...]
> Sent: Sunday, 29 September 2002 5:50
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] tv series, Rory dear, Logan's Run, etc
>
>
> When after Battle? After the Lawgiver scenes or after the flashback
> part of the film?
> I like the idea, its more interesting than the TV series concept.
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > It could have taken up after Battle.
> >
> > There could have been unrest in the ape community with a secret
> > organisation of Aldo worshippers (this could also explain how
> history
> > is re-wriotten by these apes to have Aldo the hero, much like the
> > Nazis attempted to re-write history books).
> >
> > This can be compounded by the landing of astronauts - 1 can die
> > (obligatory), 2 can be "good" and 1 can go nuts and lead a
> militant
> > anti-ape group that tries to exterminate the apes and re-take
> > civilization.
> >
> > There is a lot to play with.
> >
> > I still think the next ape movie should be a better version of
> > Beneath - ie another, different sequel to the original. It can
> pay
> > homage to Boulle's original script and could be properly planned
> (god
> > forbid).
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > --- mlccougar@a... wrote:
> > > In a message dated 9/19/02 11:25:12 AM Central Daylight Time,
> > valwp@y...
> > > writes:
> > >
> > >
> > > > So, I don't know if this has been discussed before (probably),
> > but
> > > > WAS there anywhere left to go with POTA by the time it became
> a
> > tv
> > > > series?
> > > >
> > >
> > > They coulda delved deeper into the Apes culture itself for a
> > start... It also
> > > coulda showed more of the de-evolution of humanity (had they had
> > them mutes
> > > to begin with though, then this option would be moot...)
> > >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html

3978 dammit!!!

I don't know.  Seems to me at least a year has passed.  It's ridiculous to think they'd send a rescue mission at all!  It was an Adam and Eve mission.  And a ridiculous crew for that I might add.  Should have been three women and one man if you only have room for four.  Hell, you could replace him with a few frozen vials and a turkey baster!<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/28/02 6:34:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, whitty@... writes:

Now if you are not imaginative enough to work out how a 60's movie would
address shitting, pissing and eating in space, maybe you need to invent a
mothership then spend years being ridiculed about the silly ways you justify
this.

Michael

You know. . . . I forget what we're talking about here.

-- Rory<.html

Attachments :

.html

Oh, you're good, James.  You're very good.  Do you do requests?  I can't figure out how to do this stuff since I got my computer used with no instructions.  I figure it out by trial and error.

-- Rory <.html

Attachments :

.html
Oh, I forgot to add that THIS if put into a special edition of PLANET would drive me nuts.  I'd want to kill those responsible!

-- Rory
<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/28/02 6:44:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, whitty@... writes:

Hey, Patrick, can you use a name that a dumb Aussie could draw a parallel
to?  I have no idea who Daddy Warbucks is....

Michael

Michael, what's up with you?!!!  Daddy Warbucks was the rich guy who adopted Little Orphan Annie.

-- Little Rory Fanny<.html

It was the script I think James.

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: james611102 [JamesA1102@...]
> Sent: Sunday, 29 September 2002 7:06
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Unanswered Questions
>
>
> I have an unanswered question, what made Taylor's (and Brent's)
> spaceships return to Earth in the first place. There seems to be a
> theory on everything else.
>
> --- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > Recently Rory asked a question about where you could have gone in
> the
> > TV series that had not already been covered.
> >
> > I actually made a lengthy response that was lost in the electronic
> > domain.
> >
> > Essentially, I believe the first movie contained cues for a sequel
> > that were not addressed. One that WAS addressed was the Forbidden
> > Zone, but I feel there is still much that could be uncovered there.
> >
> > One that was NOT addressed was the trial of Cornelius and Zira.
> >
> > Anyone have any more?
> >
> > Any ideas on what could have been in the Forbidden Zone other than
> > Mutants? Obviously, it was a hot spot for "in your face" evidence
> of
> > mankind's prior dominance, so what might you have included in the
> > Forbidden Zone if Beneath had not yet been scripted?
> >
> > I still like the idea of a sequel to the original movie. Maybe
> there
> > could be a twist at the end where Brent's ship lands.....
> >
> > Michael
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Good point

> -----Original Message-----
> From: james611102 [JamesA1102@...]
> Sent: Sunday, 29 September 2002 7:19
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Topics
>
>
> I think they were trying to make it so moviegoers would no
> immediatly recognize it as the New York area but close enough to
> make sense.
>
> --- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > Do go on.
> >
> > I think it is a poor map and the film-makers were not thinking in
> a
> > lateral geographical sense at the time - they just wanted
> something a
> > bit New Yorkish and forgot to address where certain things would
> have
> > to be according to cues from the movie.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.htmlIn a message dated 9/28/02 7:08:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mlccougar@... writes:

I have seen a photo of an unused scene which shows the astronauts under a vinyl dew collector which could double as a shelter. The dew collected on that could be a source for their water for the rest of their trek... (By the way, this dew collector is the same yellow piece Dodge wears in the cornfield sequence...)

Yeah, that photo freaked me out when I first saw it in the seventies.  There's no scene like that in any of the script drafts, so I've always wondered what dialogue is in that scene, etc.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/28/02 5:32:43 PM Central Daylight Time, whitty@... writes:

Haven't you seen the little pills all those Outer Space shows had their
astronauts take in nearly all 60's/70's space movies?

C'mon, Patrick, C'mon!

Michael

Actually, condensed food being in the astronaut's backpacks isn't illogical at all... That would actually be a workable idea to me... Not neccessarily a "meal in a pill" but food similar to MREs that are used by the military, etc...

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: Haristas@... [Haristas@...]
Sent: Sunday, 29 September 2002 9:42
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Rare ebay item

In a message dated 9/28/02 6:44:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, whitty@... writes:

Hey, Patrick, can you use a name that a dumb Aussie could draw a parallel
to?  I have no idea who Daddy Warbucks is....

Michael

Michael, what's up with you?!!!  Daddy Warbucks was the rich guy who adopted Little Orphan Annie.

-- Little Rory Fanny

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: mlccougar@... [mlccougar@...]
Sent: Sunday, 29 September 2002 9:47
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] POTA "chaloupes"...

In a message dated 9/28/02 5:32:43 PM Central Daylight Time, whitty@... writes:

Haven't you seen the little pills all those Outer Space shows had their
astronauts take in nearly all 60's/70's space movies?

C'mon, Patrick, C'mon!

Michael

Actually, condensed food being in the astronaut's backpacks isn't illogical at all... That would actually be a workable idea to me... Not neccessarily a "meal in a pill" but food similar to MREs that are used by the military, etc...

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/28/02 7:22:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, whitty@... writes:

Also, the reason I brought this up is that I would create a new map for a Special Edition.

So.....how would it look??

Michael


That would drive me nuts too.  That goes too far in changing the movie from what it is.

-- Rory<.html

I accept your logic. But it could be a predestination paradox.
There's a episode of the British series that addresses this called
Day of the Daleks. Rebels from the future go back in time to prevent
WWIII. But it is their actions that wind up causing the war instead
of preventing it. And if apes can talk, anything is possible.

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> My logic is simply: Zira and Cornelius have to meet Taylor and
his spaceship
> first before they can return to earth's past, therefore a planet
of apes has
> to come into being FIRST, independent of the apes coming from the
future into
> the past, so that Taylor can crashland there and the apes can get
his ship.
>
> Timelines, baby!!! Timelines. There's lots of 'em, and they
don't go in
> circles. Patrick, please explain this to them!!!!
>
> -- Rory

You can do it in MS Paint or Photo Editor. You just copy the 5 and
paste it over the 7 & 8.

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> [Unable to display image]
>
> Oh, you're good, James. You're very good. Do you do requests? I
can't
> figure out how to do this stuff since I got my computer used with
no
> instructions. I figure it out by trial and error.
>
> -- Rory

.htmlIn a message dated 9/28/02 7:51:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

I accept your logic. But it could be a predestination paradox.
There's a episode of the British series that addresses this called
Day of the Daleks. Rebels from the future go back in time to prevent
WWIII. But it is their actions that wind up causing the war instead
of preventing it. And if apes can talk, anything is possible.

Yes, anything is possible, but I think from the events in BATTLE the filmmakers were trying to change the future so that the world wouldn't blow up in 3955 or 3979 or whatever.  If in fact, after the events in BATTLE, as we see them in the released print, still lead to a future two thousand years later in which the three apes leave again in Taylor's ship, the earth blows up, and they go back to 1973, that would start a THIRD timeline in the APES saga.

See how it works?  But Patrick will explain this better tomorrow -- if he can get through all of James' posts!

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/28/02 7:52:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, whitty@... writes:

Stop teasing Patrick Cougar, you know we need a mothership!

Michael


It's a beautiful, mother of a mothership, and it's going to be there.

Positive waves, Baby!<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/28/02 7:56:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

You can do it in MS Paint or Photo Editor. You just copy the 5 and
paste it over the 7 & 8.

Yeah, I understand how it's done, I just don't know the things to click on to get me there.  I can open up my imaging program, but then I can't figure out how to get a photo in it.  I need to get a book.  My computer is like ten years old too, but it was a $2000 computer in its day.

Anyway, I'll be back later to tackle your maps, James, but I have to go get something to eat now and watch the episode of Enterprise I taped on Wednesday.  An exciting Saturday night, isn't it?

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/28/02 6:25:54 PM Central Daylight Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

Is that a dew collector or a sun shield? Even if it is a dew
collector I don't think it could collect enough water to sustain
three men in desert conditions.

Well, in honesty I can't say for sure which it is... I was talking to an Apes fan, he told me about that, and it made sense to me at the time (still does) so I just refer to it as one.. It does make sense that it would be a moisture collector, but since I have nothing that'd tell what the astronaut's packs contained as far as supplies, equipment, etc.. I'm not sure.<.html

Thanks Michael!!

--- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> Welcome back James!

.htmlIn a message dated 9/28/02 4:16:59 PM Central Daylight Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

  I agree. Very few people chime in anyway, so I say those who
post can talk about anything they want. Especially if it's of a
sexual nature. But please, no more Forbidden zone maps! Please! - - -
Jeff

Sounds like someones been taking lessons from the gorilla in the Return episode "Lagoon of Peril"

(Paraphrased here): "Men fall from sky, big silvery spaceship... Talk like apes, smart like apes... Fly like the birdies... No more Forbidden Zone...PLEEAASE."<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2002 9:42 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Rare ebay item

In a message dated 9/28/02 6:44:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, whitty@... writes:

Hey, Patrick, can you use a name that a dumb Aussie could draw a parallel
to?  I have no idea who Daddy Warbucks is....

Michael

Michael, what's up with you?!!!  Daddy Warbucks was the rich guy who adopted Little Orphan Annie.

-- Little Rory Fanny

<.html

That's a load of crap, Patrick! According to Hanna-Barbera in the "Stone
Age" they had cars, elevators, pianos. They just didn't need a fire dept.
because everything was made out of stone.
Actually, I thought that "Eve" theory had been ruled out. Though it was the
basis for Oliver Stone's POTA script. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2002 8:36 AM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Unanswered Questions


> --- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > Here I am answering my own question....sort of.
> >
> > The big question for me was "How did apes overtake mankind?".
> >
> > I much prefer the idea of mankind devolving as "lower" primates
> > evolve.
> >
> > How would you have explained it?
> >
> > With genetics? Nuclear mutation?
> >
> > Remember, I'm thinking in terms of no sequels yet existing.
> >
> > Michael
>
> *** In Boulle's novel, mankind "fell" through some sort of spiritual
> ennui which somehow overtook the entire population, which ended up
> preferring to live animalistic lives in zoos or in the wild. I've
> always thought that that was kinda too much of a "Frenchy" nihilistic
> Beat generation notion, which made the novel's scenario somewhat
> implausible in my mind. I prefer what the movie PLANET suggests: that
> the Apes perpetrated a "justified revenge" on Man, by "culling the
> herd" (reducing the numbers of living humans: "... let him not breed
> in great numbers...") and banishing humans to the harsh conditions of
> the wild ("... drive him back into his jungle lair...").
> If that ended up being the way ALL human beings were treated,
> eventually, then the surviving population (Nova's tribe) in 3955--like
> all other lifeforms--had adapted to their environment, finding enough
> food to subsist on and keeping around enough of a population to breed
> another generation of yahoos.
> The human race existed in just such a state for hundreds of thousands
> of years, prior to the invention of agriculture. The "Stone Age"
> humans of Paleolithic times were just about as advanced as the "more
> or less human" beings Taylor & Crew find, and didn't NEED to develop
> higher intelligence in order to successfully live in their environment
> (hell, they lived that way from about 2,000,000 B.C. until about
> 15,000 years ago). They were "hunters and gatherers", able to find
> food by either snarfing other animals (or, ugh, by cannibalizing the
> weak amongst their own numbers...) or by eating the fruits & veggies
> growing in the Ape croplands, just as they are caught doing when
> Taylor first sees them.
> Hunting and gathering tends to take up the vast majority of their
> time, however, so there isn't that much of an opportunity to advance
> intellectually--to be innovative and original. They just keep doing
> what they know--what WORKS for them. The invention of agriculture
> changed everything--allowing for more free time, so that individuals
> (or sub-groups of a tribe) could specialize, doing particular things
> very well instead of having everybody do everything at a merely
> adequate level.
> This "devolution" of humanity (in 3955) back to the "Stone Age"
> reminds me of Einstein's line about how World War Four will be fought
> with rocks and stones (World War Three, of course, being the Nuclear
> War which will reduce civilization to a Stone Age level). The human
> race, after the Nuclear War, after the emergence of the Smart Apes,
> had to adapt to a new, harsher environment. As Zira says, the humans
> of her time are mute NOT because of any anatomical flaw ("their speech
> organs are adequate"), but because their brains are adapted to
> survival in the jungle/forest/wilderness/wastelands ("... but in the
> brain!"). Somehow, the use of vocal speech became no longer needed,
> and fell into disuse (just as the wings of an ostrich or a penguin
> cannot serve those creatures to fly anymore, as for their distant
> evolutionary ancestors), so that the brain's "speech centers"
> atrophied--through disuse. Why would the humans stop using speech?
> Remember when Nova "hushes" Taylor (before Julius & the other gorillas
> separate them into opposing cages)? Perhaps the ancestors of Nova's
> tribe survived because they PURPOSELY SUPPRESSED the human ability to
> speak. Perhaps there was a time, after the Apes ascended to dominance,
> when Apes punished humans who dared to speak (sort of an extreme
> example of what is shown in the "seed" phase in BATTLE, where Teacher
> has to run for his life after forgetting he isn't allowed to say "No"
> to an Ape). Maybe, in time, Apes got to be so much against the use of
> ANY kind of speech amongst humans that they terrorized them--cutting
> out the tongues of the offending "talkers" or something like that.
> That'd sure be an incentive to "zip it". Eventually, the self-enforced
> state of Silence resulted in "atrophied speech centers", so much so
> that even when Taylor is fighting with the human who erases his
> message ["I CAN WRITE", in the sand in the big outside cage], the
> human doesn't even grunt or growl at him!
>
> I've been reading up on the conditions endured by the human race in
> those by-gone times, in a fantastic book by Brian Sykes called "THE
> SEVEN DAUGHTERS OF EVE: The Science that Reveals our Genetic
> Ancestry". After reading it, I have to wonder who the "mitochondrial
> ancestress" of Nova's tribe was... what her name was (if she had a
> name), what her life was like. However harsh her existence was, that
> mitochondrial DNA-carrying ancestress was a survivor, and her
> offspring eventually carried that DNA with them... until they all died
> in 3955, when Taylor triggers ALPHA OMEGA. "Damn them all to hell"
> indeed.
>
> Patrick
>
> >
> >
> > --- "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > > Recently Rory asked a question about where you could have gone in
> > the
> > > TV series that had not already been covered.
> > >
> > > I actually made a lengthy response that was lost in the electronic
> > > domain.
> > >
> > > Essentially, I believe the first movie contained cues for a sequel
> > > that were not addressed. One that WAS addressed was the Forbidden
> > > Zone, but I feel there is still much that could be uncovered there.
> > >
> > > One that was NOT addressed was the trial of Cornelius and Zira.
> > >
> > > Anyone have any more?
> > >
> > > Any ideas on what could have been in the Forbidden Zone other than
> > > Mutants? Obviously, it was a hot spot for "in your face" evidence
> > of
> > > mankind's prior dominance, so what might you have included in the
> > > Forbidden Zone if Beneath had not yet been scripted?
> > >
> > > I still like the idea of a sequel to the original movie. Maybe
> > there
> > > could be a twist at the end where Brent's ship lands.....
> > >
> > > Michael
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>