Yeah, that was "Project X". I enjoyed that, though it got a bit silly.
Good performances from the chimps though. I was impressed by how dark the
plot was for a "monkey movie". - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2002 9:15 AM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Space monkeys in the news


> --- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> > Yeah, I read this story, too. I hope those chimps live out the rest of
their lives happily.
> >
> > -- Rory
>
> *** Reminds me of that movie with Matthew Broderick and Helen Hunt,
> about chimps being used by the military to test fly jets. The mean
> Army guys expose the chimps to radiation, simulating the effects of a
> nuke "flash", just to see how long the chimps can survive the exposure
> to radiation (in order to find out how long a human could survive, in
> order to effectively use his jet's weaponry, in a retaliatory
> fashion).
> Eventually, the chimps revolt against their Army captors, in a
> sequence that reminded me a helluva lot like CONQUEST.
> For the life of me, I can't remember the movie's title. It was a good
> flick, though. The escaping chimps end up safely on their own in the
> Florida Everglades, if I recall correctly. Probably somewhere near
> where Armando was gonna take Zira & Cornelius "to found a colony", as
> Lewis Dixon says.
>
> Patrick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Yeah, saw them. More bleak animal stories, like "Apes". I can dig it,
baby. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2002 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] How about this for a POTA film?


> --- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > Haven't you seen "Babe" Jeff? :)
> >
> > I am still thinking about this one.
> >
> > One thing that terrified me about the new movie was the portrayal of
> > the Orangs looking so realistic. I think it worked OK in POTA 2001
> > but I still like my apes as per the original make ups (well, prior to
> > the poor old rushed TV Series versions). In liked the 2001 Gorillas
> > and Chimp MALES (the females...well, enough said).
> >
> > But yes I would even be happy with a Cartoon of Monkey Planet a la
> > Boulle, or even a comic book.
> >
> > You know, I loved Iron Giant and I would be against a remake with
> > real actors - it would lose its heart.
> >
> > And the cartoon could be an enjoyable, lower budget production.
> >
> > I wonder if Boulle did intend the apes to be "real apes"? Did he
> > ever comment on the actors' portrayals/makeup?
> >
> > Michael
>
> *** Hmmm... if the animation style were like the animated versions of
> "WATERSHIP DOWN" and "THE PLAGUE DOGS", done in realistic fashion by
> Brits, I'd be first in line. Anybody else here ever see those flicks?
> I thought they were fantastic. I haven't read the books they're based
> on, but these two animated movies are 2 of the 10 best ones ever made,
> in my opinion.
>
> Patrick
>
> >
> > --- <veetus@e...> wrote:
> > > If they look too real it might take people out of the movie and
> > turn into
> > > "Lancelot Link". I think having actors in makeup gives the audience
> > a kind
> > > of comfort zone. Kassidy Raetc. - - - Jeff
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <MTotsky@a...>
> > > To: <pota@y...>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 9:11 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] How about this for a POTA film?
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > In a message dated 9/26/02 12:06:51 AM, veetus@e...
> > writes:
> > > >
> > > > << The makeup in the new
> > > > one worked fine for me, the problem was the script and all the
> > CGI in the
> > > > world wouldn't cover that. >>
> > > >
> > > > I'm not saying tht I have a problem with the makeup (in the
> > originals or
> > > in
> > > > POTA: 2001), it's just that they don't look like "real" apes
> > (like at the
> > > zoo
> > > > or on Animal Planet). The only way it you could do that would by
> > CGI. It
> > > > would be a true "reimagining." Actors and makeup will always draw
> > > comparisons
> > > > to the original.
> > > >
> > > > Matt
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------ ---------------------
> > ~-->
> > > Home Selling? Try Us!
> > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/QrPZMC/iTmEAA/MVfIAA/9_IolB/TM
> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -~->
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Why would I do that if I have a life-size one that talks? But he hates it,
he doesn't want to see it. I enjoy having it tortured by the POTA Megos. - -
Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2002 12:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Kassidy and Naughton


> Do you take it out and play with it when he comes over?
>
> --- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> > I'd love to see "Space Academy", which featured our own Eric
> Greene.
> > Anyone seen that show from the late '70's. I have the actual Eric
> Greene
> > action figure. It's great. He hates it! - - - Jeff
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2002 12:34 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Jeffery's wee wee

In a message dated 9/28/02 3:31:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

Do you take it out and play with it when he comes over?

The High Potentate of PotAdom takes it out and plays with all the time.  It's his right.

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
>   I'd love to see "Space Academy", which featured our own Eric
Greene.
> Anyone seen that show from the late '70's. I have the actual Eric
Greene
> action figure. It's great. He hates it! - - - Jeff

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

I'm sure the main problem was the schedule and they couldn't have "all
apes, all the time" on a TV budget. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2002 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] tv series , Logan's Run, etc


> Doesn't Roddy say in the interview on disc 2 of the Behind DVD that
> one of the problems with CBS is that they wanted to show to
> concentrate more on the humans than on the apes.
>
> --- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> > Some of you TV show fans I just don't understand. One of the BIG
> problems
> > with the show was NOT ENOUGH APES. We were almost always having
> to watch the
> > problems humans were having. Who cares about humans, the filthy
> things!
> >
> > -- Rory
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

The Adventure comics of the 90's had Aldo worshipers. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2002 12:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] tv series, Rory dear, Logan's Run, etc


> When after Battle? After the Lawgiver scenes or after the flashback
> part of the film?
> I like the idea, its more interesting than the TV series concept.
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > It could have taken up after Battle.
> >
> > There could have been unrest in the ape community with a secret
> > organisation of Aldo worshippers (this could also explain how
> history
> > is re-wriotten by these apes to have Aldo the hero, much like the
> > Nazis attempted to re-write history books).
> >
> > This can be compounded by the landing of astronauts - 1 can die
> > (obligatory), 2 can be "good" and 1 can go nuts and lead a
> militant
> > anti-ape group that tries to exterminate the apes and re-take
> > civilization.
> >
> > There is a lot to play with.
> >
> > I still think the next ape movie should be a better version of
> > Beneath - ie another, different sequel to the original. It can
> pay
> > homage to Boulle's original script and could be properly planned
> (god
> > forbid).
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > --- mlccougar@a... wrote:
> > > In a message dated 9/19/02 11:25:12 AM Central Daylight Time,
> > valwp@y...
> > > writes:
> > >
> > >
> > > > So, I don't know if this has been discussed before (probably),
> > but
> > > > WAS there anywhere left to go with POTA by the time it became
> a
> > tv
> > > > series?
> > > >
> > >
> > > They coulda delved deeper into the Apes culture itself for a
> > start... It also
> > > coulda showed more of the de-evolution of humanity (had they had
> > them mutes
> > > to begin with though, then this option would be moot...)
> > >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Hey Michael,

Do you think e-bay is a source of dropping prices? Was there an e-bay when
you bought the helicopter? I think now people have more confidence that that
they can find what they want on the internet, where before they might think,
" A POTA helicopter?! This is my only shot. I'll never come across it's like
again." - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2002 4:18 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Rare ebay item


> That makes sense - as the collectors get an item its value decreases.
>
> There was one guy who would randomly buy and sell his collection. He
would
> have easily pushed the price to $500 if he did not have it and wanted it
> (and would oftn seel for a fraction of that....then buy it again years
> later).
>
> It's a sickness......
>
> Michael
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: apefan23@... [apefan23@...]
> > Sent: Sunday, 29 September 2002 4:15
> > To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Rare ebay item
> >
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 9/28/02 11:54:22 AM,
> > patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:
> >
> > << This is sitting on a very affordable price and I would say it is not
> > > a common item.
> > >
> > > I paid $200 for mine. >>
> >
> > this last one went for 90 bucks
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2002 4:23 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Unanswered Questions

In a message dated 9/28/02 5:30:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

I have an unanswered question, what made Taylor's (and Brent's)
spaceships return to Earth in the first place. There seems to be a
theory on everything else.

I have no theory on this except that if they didn't we'd have no movie.  But, I'll bet Patrick will have a mighty good.  Oh my God!!!  Wait until he gets his own computer!

Maybe it was a Hasslein curve that slingshot them back to earth?  How's that for a theory?

-- Rory
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2002 4:42 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Rare ebay item

In a message dated 9/28/02 6:44:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, whitty@... writes:

Hey, Patrick, can you use a name that a dumb Aussie could draw a parallel
to?  I have no idea who Daddy Warbucks is....

Michael

Michael, what's up with you?!!!  Daddy Warbucks was the rich guy who adopted Little Orphan Annie.

-- Little Rory Fanny

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: mlccougar@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2002 6:26 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Topics

In a message dated 9/28/02 4:16:59 PM Central Daylight Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

  I agree. Very few people chime in anyway, so I say those who
post can talk about anything they want. Especially if it's of a
sexual nature. But please, no more Forbidden zone maps! Please! - - -
Jeff

Sounds like someones been taking lessons from the gorilla in the Return episode "Lagoon of Peril"

(Paraphrased here): "Men fall from sky, big silvery spaceship... Talk like apes, smart like apes... Fly like the birdies... No more Forbidden Zone...PLEEAASE."
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/28/02 10:27:16 PM Central Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:

 That's a load of crap, Patrick! According to Hanna-Barbera in the "Stone
Age" they had cars, elevators, pianos. They just didn't need a fire dept.
because everything was made out of stone.

Oh contraire (sic ?) but they DID have a volunteer fire department so they (Fred and Barney) could get away from Wilma and Betty and play cards...

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/28/02 10:48:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:

  Yeah, saw them. More bleak animal stories, like "Apes". I can dig it,
baby. - - - Jeff

Does anyone else here remember one of those ABC Movies of the Week called "A Cold Night's Death" from 1972.  It starred Robert Culp and Eli Wallach, and it was about these scientists at a polar station doing reseach on primates.  Why at a polar station?  I have no idea.  It played a lot like "The Thing."  Anyway, the scientists begin to suspect there's something else at the station because strange things start happening.  The scientists get killed off one by one until only Eli Wallach is alive.  Then he gets lured into this room and locked in with no heat.  Soon he'll freeze to death.  He looks at a small window in the door that's just been closed behind him and locked, and a chimpanzee slowly comes up and stares back at him through the window.  It was gooooood!

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/29/02 12:12:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mlccougar@... writes:

Oh contraire (sic ?) but they DID have a volunteer fire department so they (Fred and Barney) could get away from Wilma and Betty and play cards...

No, no, no. . . go bowling with those rocks that had holes in them.  Didn't Fred get his thumb stuck in one?  And wasn't it a monkey that picked up the pins?  Hey, when are they going to make "Flintstones III"?  They had that alien, The Great Gazoo, in the last one, and do you know Buck Kartalian was in it, too?

-- Rory<.html

Attachments :

.htmlIn a message dated 9/28/02 5:48:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

while the area does look similar there are a few reasons why the theory doesn't work.

- there is no reason to think that the apes would orient there maps differently than we do with north at the top, south on the bottom, etc.

There's every reason to think so.  Why not? being the best reason.  The only reason I can think of for "why not?" is so that you can be
right, and I wrong.  You must be joking.

-Zauis refers to the forbidden zone twice as "our eastern desert". during the trial scene and later when taylor is in his office.

East, west, north, south!  They're just names.  If the apes think our north is their east, what difference does it make?  Besides, give that Ape City is inland no matter how you want to look at the map, there is desert "east" of Ape City!

-maps of the two areas are shown below. (I've left out the map from the film for Jeff's sake. [And I've inserted it]) while both areas are similar the scale is totally different. the chesapeake bay area is much larger. Thus taylor's route from the crash to the greenbelt would of been 80 miles rather than 30. taylor states that they only have 3 days of food and water. If the journey was 80 miles they would of been show far more sevre sign of dehydraition and malnutrition when they reached the scarecrows.

How long does it take to walk 80 miles?  I think it could be done in three days, especially if you have to get there in order to stay alive.

  
    To think that the map above shows the New York Metro area is ridiculous.  Taylor rode NORTH along the shore to find the Statue of Liberty.  Therefore, everything in PLANET took place south the the New York area AND inland.   It's just logical sense I'm talking here.

-- Rory

<.html

Attachments :

.html
I will say this about what you've done here, James, I like the type you've chosen, very original ads.   However, you don't go into enough detail.  Where exactly is Ape City?  (I would place it in the lower area of the largest 'green belt.')  Where's the cornfield?  Where's Cornelius' cave?  Remember, James, the cave was on the ocean's shore, not the inland sea.  Now, try again and let's see what you do.

-- Rory <.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/28/02 11:38:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

*** In Boulle's novel, mankind "fell" through some sort of spiritual
ennui which somehow overtook the entire population, which ended up
preferring to live animalistic lives in zoos or in the wild. I've
always thought that that was kinda too much of a "Frenchy" nihilistic
Beat generation notion, which made the novel's scenario somewhat
implausible in my mind. 

I don't get you there, Patrick, at all.  First comes MTV, then 'reality TV,' then people stop reading, then machines or servants of some class or order do everything for them, all creature comforts are provided.  Hey, didn't Wells do it first in "The Time Machine" with the Eloi?  What's this "Frenchy" thing?  You got something against the French?  Boulle was French!!!  What are you, Patrick?  Some kind of heretic?!!!  I think your mind is going!

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/28/02 11:38:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

This "devolution" of humanity (in 3978) back to the "Stone Age"
reminds me of Einstein's line about how World War Four will be fought
with rocks and stones (World War Three, of course, being the Nuclear
War which will reduce civilization to a Stone Age level). The human
race, after the Nuclear War, after the emergence of the Smart Apes,
had to adapt to a new, harsher environment. As Zira says, the humans
of her time are mute NOT because of any anatomical flaw ("their speech
organs are adequate"), but because their brains are adapted to
survival in the jungle/forest/wilderness/wastelands ("... but in the
brain!"). Somehow, the use of vocal speech became no longer needed,
and fell into disuse (just as the wings of an ostrich or a penguin
cannot serve those creatures to fly anymore, as for their distant
evolutionary ancestors), so that the brain's "speech centers"
atrophied--through disuse. Why would the humans stop using speech?
Remember when Nova "hushes" Taylor (before Julius & the other gorillas
separate them into opposing cages)? Perhaps the ancestors of Nova's
tribe survived because they PURPOSELY SUPPRESSED the human ability to
speak. Perhaps there was a time, after the Apes ascended to dominance,
when Apes punished humans who dared to speak (sort of an extreme
example of what is shown in the "seed" phase in BATTLE, where Teacher
has to run for his life after forgetting he isn't allowed to say "No"
to an Ape). Maybe, in time, Apes got to be so much against the use of
ANY kind of speech amongst humans that they terrorized them--cutting
out the tongues of the offending "talkers" or something like that.
That'd sure be an incentive to "zip it". Eventually, the self-enforced
state of Silence resulted in "atrophied speech centers", so much so
that even when Taylor is fighting with the human who erases his
message ["I CAN WRITE", in the sand in the big outside cage], the
human doesn't even grunt or growl at him!

Patrick, you forget. . . the humans of 3978 can't just not speak, they also have the minds of animals.  Their intellect has atrophied too.

-- Rory<.html

I think you're pretty right there Jeff, In the early days of Ebay, there
were a few high-rollers who would constantly push the prices up of certain
items because they had the disposable in come to do so. Then other sellers
would see what the item went for and others would pop up and once the core
high rollers were satisfied, the items dropped down to more reasonable
prices. Before Ebay I used to subscribe to Toy Shop magazine but even air
freighted, I'd get it a week after it came out so anything cool that was
reasonably priced was already sold. It was a good source for getting the
more common APE items at good prices.
Best,
KEN

----- Original Message -----
From: <veetus@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2002 1:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Rare ebay item


> Hey Michael,
>
> Do you think e-bay is a source of dropping prices? Was there an e-bay
when
> you bought the helicopter? I think now people have more confidence that
that
> they can find what they want on the internet, where before they might
think,
> " A POTA helicopter?! This is my only shot. I'll never come across it's
like
> again." - - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2002 4:18 PM
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Rare ebay item
>
>
> > That makes sense - as the collectors get an item its value decreases.
> >
> > There was one guy who would randomly buy and sell his collection. He
> would
> > have easily pushed the price to $500 if he did not have it and wanted it
> > (and would oftn seel for a fraction of that....then buy it again years
> > later).
> >
> > It's a sickness......
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: apefan23@... [apefan23@...]
> > > Sent: Sunday, 29 September 2002 4:15
> > > To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Rare ebay item
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 9/28/02 11:54:22 AM,
> > > patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:
> > >
> > > << This is sitting on a very affordable price and I would say it is
not
> > > > a common item.
> > > >
> > > > I paid $200 for mine. >>
> > >
> > > this last one went for 90 bucks
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Yes Jeff

There certainly was an element of this, but there is also the fact that
maybe there are only about 20 of these helicopters left in this condition.

Ebay has opened things up, but I guarantee you my RAREST acquisitons were
not from ebay, but from more obscure places.

Ebay is limited to internet users, and while there are a lot of them, there
are still HEAPS of people who don't even have an email address.

After I had been collecting POTA for a couple of years, I would JUMP at
buying things I had not previously seen for whatever they cost. This worked
for me at the time, but I do regret the $20 000 or so I frivolously wasted.

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: veetus@... [veetus@...]
> Sent: Sunday, 29 September 2002 13:22
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Rare ebay item
>
>
> Hey Michael,
>
> Do you think e-bay is a source of dropping prices? Was there an
> e-bay when
> you bought the helicopter? I think now people have more
> confidence that that
> they can find what they want on the internet, where before they
> might think,
> " A POTA helicopter?! This is my only shot. I'll never come
> across it's like
> again." - - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2002 4:18 PM
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Rare ebay item
>
>
> > That makes sense - as the collectors get an item its value decreases.
> >
> > There was one guy who would randomly buy and sell his collection. He
> would
> > have easily pushed the price to $500 if he did not have it and wanted it
> > (and would oftn seel for a fraction of that....then buy it again years
> > later).
> >
> > It's a sickness......
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: apefan23@... [apefan23@...]
> > > Sent: Sunday, 29 September 2002 4:15
> > > To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Rare ebay item
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 9/28/02 11:54:22 AM,
> > > patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:
> > >
> > > << This is sitting on a very affordable price and I would say
> it is not
> > > > a common item.
> > > >
> > > > I paid $200 for mine. >>
> > >
> > > this last one went for 90 bucks
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

>
>

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: veetus@... [veetus@...]
Sent: Sunday, 29 September 2002 13:25
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Unanswered Questions

 I heard somewhere, maybe from Patrick, that perhaps the computers returned them to Earth when something was wrong, like an automatic homing device; but then it might occur to the astronauts more readily that they are back on Earth. - - - Jeff

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2002 4:23 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Unanswered Questions

In a message dated 9/28/02 5:30:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

I have an unanswered question, what made Taylor's (and Brent's)
spaceships return to Earth in the first place. There seems to be a
theory on everything else.

I have no theory on this except that if they didn't we'd have no movie.  But, I'll bet Patrick will have a mighty good.  Oh my God!!!  Wait until he gets his own computer!

Maybe it was a Hasslein curve that slingshot them back to earth?  How's that for a theory?

-- Rory
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

<.html

Attachments :

.htmlCool!  Now do everyone's birthdays.

You mean like this:

<.html

.html

It's a beautiful, mother of a mothership, and it's going to be there.

Positive waves, Baby!

WOOF WOOF WOOF!!!
That's my other dog imitation.<.html

Why not? There is just no reason to indicate that they would. Why
would they change the meanings of North & East while retain the
meanings of all other words? That is just not logical.
An average man can walk about 10 miles a day over rocky desert
conditions. Thus it would only take 3 days in the New York area
while taking 8 days in the Cheasapeke Bay area. That would mean they
would of been without food & water for 5 days under desert
conditions.
Finally since the Apes mimiced the human society that came before it
and if Ape city were in North Carolina, why don't the Apes have
southern accents? Why are there no rusting old washing machines in
front of the houses in Ape City? Why is Zira not engaged to her
nephew Lucius? ;-)

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 9/28/02 5:48:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> JamesA1102@a... writes:
>
>
> > while the area does look similar there are a few reasons why the
theory
> > doesn't work.
> >
> > - there is no reason to think that the apes would orient there
maps
> > differently than we do with north at the top, south on the
bottom, etc.
> There's every reason to think so. Why not? being the best
reason. The only
> reason I can think of for "why not?" is so that you can be
> right, and I wrong. You must be joking.
>
> > -Zauis refers to the forbidden zone twice as "our eastern
desert". during
> > the trial scene and later when taylor is in his office.
> East, west, north, south! They're just names. If the apes think
our north
> is their east, what difference does it make? Besides, give that
Ape City is
> inland no matter how you want to look at the map, there is
desert "east" of
> Ape City!
>
>
> > -maps of the two areas are shown below. (I've left out the map
from the film
> > for Jeff's sake. [And I've inserted it]) while both areas are
similar the
> > scale is totally different. the chesapeake bay area is much
larger. Thus
> > taylor's route from the crash to the greenbelt would of been 80
miles
> > rather than 30. taylor states that they only have 3 days of food
and water.
> > If the journey was 80 miles they would of been show far more
sevre sign of
> > dehydraition and malnutrition when they reached the scarecrows.
> How long does it take to walk 80 miles? I think it could be done
in three
> days, especially if you have to get there in order to stay alive.
> [Unable to display image]
> > [Unable to display image]
> > [Unable to display image]
> > To think that the map above shows the New York Metro area is
> > ridiculous. Taylor rode NORTH along the shore to find the
Statue of
> > Liberty. Therefore, everything in PLANET took place south the
the New York
> > area AND inland. It's just logical sense I'm talking here.
>
> -- Rory

.html

My computer is like ten years old too, but it was a $2000 computer in its day.

Isn't it funny how now you can get a cheap $500 buck computer and it'll just blow the drive doors of an old top of the line machine?  I have to wonder what the top of the line machines are like now?<.html

I put Ape City where Cornelius pointed too, by the river. The inland
sea or 'Dead Lake' is the small area that Taylor is pointing to in
the picture. The rest of that area is Long Island sound which is on
the shore and has beaches.

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> [Unable to display image]
> I will say this about what you've done here, James, I like the
type you've
> chosen, very original ads. However, you don't go into enough
detail. Where
> exactly is Ape City? (I would place it in the lower area of the
largest
> 'green belt.') Where's the cornfield? Where's Cornelius' cave?
Remember,
> James, the cave was on the ocean's shore, not the inland sea.
Now, try again
> and let's see what you do.
>
> -- Rory

Here's a question for you physics fans! Why is it when I download an avi
file, it won't play on anyone elses computer but it plays just fine on any
player on my?

.html

I just refer to it as one.. It does make sense that it would be a moisture collector

It may just be a piece of rain gear.  A standard issue pancho makes a fine moisture collecter.<.html

I saw a report on CNN that Ebay and other auction sites had pushed
down the price of baseball cards. In the past collectors were
reliant on their local dealers who could set whatever price they
could get. Ebay openned things up so collectors could trade around
the world forcing dealers to compete with each other driving prices
lower.

--- In pota@y..., "Ken and Heather Taylor" <ktaylor@z...> wrote:
> I think you're pretty right there Jeff, In the early days of Ebay,
there
> were a few high-rollers who would constantly push the prices up of
certain
> items because they had the disposable in come to do so. Then other
sellers
> would see what the item went for and others would pop up and once
the core
> high rollers were satisfied, the items dropped down to more
reasonable
> prices. Before Ebay I used to subscribe to Toy Shop magazine but
even air
> freighted, I'd get it a week after it came out so anything cool
that was
> reasonably priced was already sold. It was a good source for
getting the
> more common APE items at good prices.
> Best,
> KEN
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <veetus@e...>
> To: <pota@y...>
> Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2002 1:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Rare ebay item
>
>
> > Hey Michael,
> >
> > Do you think e-bay is a source of dropping prices? Was there an
e-bay
> when
> > you bought the helicopter? I think now people have more
confidence that
> that
> > they can find what they want on the internet, where before they
might
> think,
> > " A POTA helicopter?! This is my only shot. I'll never come
across it's
> like
> > again." - - - Jeff
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...>
> > To: <pota@y...>
> > Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2002 4:18 PM
> > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Rare ebay item
> >
> >
> > > That makes sense - as the collectors get an item its value
decreases.
> > >
> > > There was one guy who would randomly buy and sell his
collection. He
> > would
> > > have easily pushed the price to $500 if he did not have it and
wanted it
> > > (and would oftn seel for a fraction of that....then buy it
again years
> > > later).
> > >
> > > It's a sickness......
> > >
> > > Michael
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: apefan23@a... [apefan23@a...]
> > > > Sent: Sunday, 29 September 2002 4:15
> > > > To: pota@y...
> > > > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Rare ebay item
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > In a message dated 9/28/02 11:54:22 AM,
> > > > patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
> > > >
> > > > << This is sitting on a very affordable price and I would
say it is
> not
> > > > > a common item.
> > > > >
> > > > > I paid $200 for mine. >>
> > > >
> > > > this last one went for 90 bucks
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >

Sure just tell me the dates.

--- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> Cool! Now do everyone's birthdays.
>
>
> > You mean like this:
> > [Unable to display image]

.htmlHe looks at a small window in the door that's just been closed behind him and locked, and a chimpanzee slowly comes up and stares back at him through the window.  It was gooooood!

Does anyone know the name of a movie I heard about some signing apes.  One was called Link.  And the good ape knew the other ape was evil.  And her would sing to his trainers.  Link Bad!  Cook Link!  Dirty Bug Link!
<.html

Just noticed that there are 1582 posts this month or 1583 counting
this one. The highest month so far was April 2001 with 1596 posts.
Think we can break that record?

.html

How long does it take to walk 80 miles?  I think it could be done in three days, especially if you have to get there in order to stay alive.

No one said it was 3 days.  That's just when the groceries ran out.  Taylor said, Many Days and nights.  That sounds like four or five days to me.  That's averaging 15 - 20 miles a day.  That's do-able even in the desert -- especially if they do most of their sleeping during the hot part of the day and travel by night.<.html

.html

Sure just tell me the dates.

It's the first time the meter clicks a day.

<.html

You can walk 15-20 or even 25 miles a day on flat terrain. But they
were walking over hills and cliffs. Taylor didn't say many days and
nights Zira did interpeting his hand signals. If it took 5 days that
would be 2 days without water in a desert. They would be suffering
from sevre dehydration.

--- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:
>
> > How long does it take to walk 80 miles? I think it could be
done in three
> > days, especially if you have to get there in order to stay alive.
>
> No one said it was 3 days. That's just when the groceries ran
out. Taylor
> said, Many Days and nights. That sounds like four or five days to
me.
> That's averaging 15 - 20 miles a day. That's do-able even in the
desert --
> especially if they do most of their sleeping during the hot part
of the day
> and travel by night.

July 14?

--- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:
>
> > Sure just tell me the dates.
> >
> It's the first time the meter clicks a day.

In a message dated 9/29/02 5:52:35 AM Central Daylight Time,
JamesA1102@... writes:

<< Just noticed that there are 1582 posts this month or 1583 counting
this one. The highest month so far was April 2001 with 1596 posts.
Think we can break that record? >>

Yes. Chalk one up.

-Joe

.htmlIn a message dated 9/29/02 6:52:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

Just noticed that there are 1582 posts this month or 1583 counting
this one. The highest month so far was April 2001 with 1596 posts.
Think we can break that record?

We already have since a lot of those posts in April 2001 were repeats from Brian.<.html

Attachments :

.htmlHey Gang,

I just sent James' work to Joe Russo telling him that I just found this posted on a DVD site that says Fox is doing a 5-Star "Special Edition" of PLANET and the rest of the series, and that this is a CGI change being made so the series has "less inconsistences."  I told him I was furious about it.  Let's see if he buys it.  He, he, he!




<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/29/02 6:36:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

Why not? There is just no reason to indicate that they would. Why
would they change the meanings of North & East while retain the
meanings of all other words? That is just not logical.

The apes don't know any better, but I really think the map was held sideways in PLANET just to fool the audience.<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/29/02 6:36:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

An average man can walk about 10 miles a day over rocky desert
conditions. Thus it would only take 3 days in the New York area
while taking 8 days in the Cheasapeke Bay area. That would mean they
would of been without food & water for 5 days under desert
conditions.

I guess you're right there, however that still doesn't explain that Taylor rides north to find the Statue of Liberty and James would place Ape City north of where it is.<.html

Attachments :

.htmlIn a message dated 9/29/02 6:41:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

I put Ape City where Cornelius pointed too, by the river. The inland
sea or 'Dead Lake' is the small area that Taylor is pointing to in
the picture. The rest of that area is Long Island sound which is on
the shore and has beaches.

Are you still sticking with this one you did before?  But, about Ape City -- it was in a green area!  The tan and brown areas are desert!

<.html

*** Going by your side-by-side comparison maps, what is the distance
from the Ape City area ("... We're here...") to the Green Area/
Waterfall/Scarecrows/Cornfield ("... you were captured here...")? The
gorillas who hunted Taylor had to cart him and the other survivors of
the Hunt all the way back to Ape City... yet Taylor had been shot in
the throat, and had suffered a loss of blood which required that Dr.
Galen perform a blood transfusion from Nova to Taylor.
If the distance from the Hunt area to Ape City were too far, wouldn't
Taylor have bled to death? This is the first time I've mentioned this
aspect of the situation, but it seems to me that Taylor's bloodloss
requires that the travel time back to Ape City must not take up
altogether too much time. I'll have to dig up a U.S. map and
guesstimate the distances your comparison maps suggest to see how far
you think the gorilla hunters had to go in order to get their catch
(Taylor, Nova, Landon, etc.) back home... but my hunch is that your
suggestion that they had to travel from around Henderson/Roanoke
Rapids, NC to near Lynchburg, VA requires so much time that Taylor's
bleeding throat would have done him in. How far IS it, from Henderson
to Lynchburg?

I'll check out the distances involved later on, when I get back home.

Patrick

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 9/28/02 12:45:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> Haristas@a... writes:
>
>
> > I've since gone back into the archives and retrieved the map photo with all
> > the junk on it.
> >
> >
>
> I mean 'without' all the junk on it.
> [Unable to display image]
> Now I'll try to explain this again. If you agree that Cornelius is holding the map sideways and that what is on the right of this map is in actuallity the 'north,' then I think it makes sense that this map is supposed to depict the area around what is now Chesapeak Bay.
> It's the only body of water on the east coast of the US large enough to be the 'inland sea' of PLANET.
> [Unable to display image]
> Now it would help if you went and got yourself a good map of the east coast because this was the only image I could find on the web and it doesn't have state borders or city and towns indicated.
>
> But, remembering where Cornelius and Taylor point to things on this map in PLANET, I would say the 'dead sea' or the 'inland sea' is what's left of Chesapeake Bay. The 'greenbelt' where the cornfield was where Taylor is captured would be where central Virginia is now, perhaps a little southeast of Lynchburg. Where Cornelius indicates Ape City is, I would place in North Carolina somewhere between the towns of Henderson and Roanoke Rapids.
> Cornelius' cave could be anywhere along the Atlantic coast from where the inland sea enters the Atlantic to where Taylor's arm enters the picture above. Now I think that where Taylor's arm is on the picture is the area that was southern-most New Jersey. Remember that I've said Delaware Bay is gone. Since most of you think Taylor couldn't have rode up the shore very long after he left the apes at the cave, then I would place the cave around where Ocean City, Maryland was or at the southern most tip on New Jersey. That way Taylor just has to ride up the Jersey coast to find the Statue of Liberty. I would also say that the islands of Staten and Long in what was New York State are gone by 3978 since we don't see them in PLANET and they would be visable.
>
> AND OF COURSE, this doesn't work for BENEATH THE PLANET OF THE APES, where the filmmakers really screwed things up by making it seem as if Ape City were on Long Island.
>
> -- Rory

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:

> This is another concept of the Icarus ship that I like. I can imagine this entire craft re-entering the atmosphere, then the nose section disengaging for final descent. However, from BENEATH it seems the filmmakers imagined the craft landing vertically.
>
> [Unable to display image]

*** I admire the work that the CG artist did to produce this image, as
well as the efforts of like-minded others, but it'd be nice if they
took into account the images of the aft end from BENEATH. If PLANET
were all we had to go on, then I'd probably opt for a design such as
this one... but with Brent's ship looking the way it does, it requires
an explanation which these fan-made designs totally ignore.

Patrick

Attachments :

.htmlIn a message dated 9/29/02 11:22:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

*** Going by your side-by-side comparison maps, what is the distance
from the Ape City area ("... We're here...") to the Green Area/
Waterfall/Scarecrows/Cornfield ("... you were captured here...")? The
gorillas who hunted Taylor had to cart him and the other survivors of
the Hunt all the way back to Ape City... yet Taylor had been shot in
the throat, and had suffered a loss of blood which required that Dr.
Galen perform a blood transfusion from Nova to Taylor.
If the distance from the Hunt area to Ape City were too far, wouldn't
Taylor have bled to death? This is the first time I've mentioned this
aspect of the situation, but it seems to me that Taylor's bloodloss
requires that the travel time back to Ape City must not take up
altogether too much time. 

I've never thought about this either, Patrick, but you bring up a very good point.  If you look again at the PLANET map the distance between where Taylor is shot and captured and Ape City is greater than where his spaceship crashlands and the greenbelt the astronauts walk to.  But if you're going to make the area this map covers so small that the gorilla wagon can get to Ape City before Taylor bleeds to death, then it only would have taken the astronauts a day or so to get to the greenbelt.

As with a lot in the POTA series, there's just so many inconsistances.

-- Rory <.html

--- In pota@y..., "james611102" <JamesA1102@a...> wrote:

> I have an unanswered question, what made Taylor's (and Brent's)
> spaceships return to Earth in the first place. There seems to be a
> theory on everything else.

*** Even though I know you don't give "a rat's ass" (as you once put
it) about the scenario I cooked up, it does explain why both Taylor's
and Brent's ships (i.e. shuttlecraft) end up back at Earth: for the
same reason that Virdon's ship ends up going back to Earth--somebody
who wasn't snoozing in a hibernation chamber triggered the "Automatic
Homing Device". Just like Jonesy did on Virdon's order. Of all the
thousands of star systems Taylor's ship could have wound up in (if,
that is, the ship had somehow encountered some sort of interstellar
danger which caused the mission to abort), it seems incredibly
implausible to me that the ship would just HAPPEN to find itself in
the Sol system. It makes much more sense that the Automatic Homing
Device was purposely triggered, sending them all back to Earth for
whatever reason. And only those who weren't hibernating knew the back-
to-Earth journey had taken place... Taylor (and others) waking up
after the Return, with no time to read the tapes.

Patrick

.htmlIn a message dated 9/29/02 11:27:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

*** I admire the work that the CG artist did to produce this image, as
well as the efforts of like-minded others, but it'd be nice if they
took into account the images of the aft end from BENEATH. If PLANET
were all we had to go on, then I'd probably opt for a design such as
this one... but with Brent's ship looking the way it does, it requires
an explanation which these fan-made designs totally ignore.

Patrick

And by the same turn the BENEATH design requires an explanation of the ship's interior as seen in PLANET.  How do you move in that cabin when it's vertical?  This is just another of the great POTA inconsistances!!!

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/29/02 11:43:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

It makes much more sense that the Automatic Homing
Device was purposely triggered, sending them all back to Earth for
whatever reason. And only those who weren't hibernating knew the back-
to-Earth journey had taken place... Taylor (and others) waking up
after the Return, with no time to read the tapes.

Patrick

Well, who triggered these Automatic Homing Devices?  I can believe it happening by accident on the first flight, but then it happens again on all the others?  Is there a flaw in the Icarus design that causes this to happen?  And, by the way, is it the Hasslien theory of near-light-speed space travel that sends the ships into the future, or is it a time warp, some bend in time?
In the first film I'd say the former, in the second the latter, but it sent them both to the same place in roughly the same time.  Another great POTA inconsistency.

-- Rory<.html

--- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:

> Haven't you seen the little pills all those Outer Space shows had their astronauts take in nearly all 60's/70's space movies?
>
> C'mon, Patrick, C'mon!
>
> Michael

*** I can't remember where I read it, but a fairly recent article (in
some science magazine, maybe Discover or Scientific American) debunked
the idea of the "meal in a pill". I can't remember their reasoning as
to WHY the concept doesn't work in reality, but that's what they
concluded.
That's not to say that some company wouldn't make & market a "Meal in
a Pill" product, paying off the FDA so as not to prove the concept is
valid... after all, in the San Francisco BART station (in "The Trap"),
doesn't Burke point out a poster to Urko depicting just such a thing?
Remember, though, that those poster-ads in that subway station had to
have been there right at the time of the Nuke War, some 30 years after
the time Taylor's ship left Earth.

Another thought: don't Taylor and his 3 crewmembers look rather clean,
and well-groomed? This implies that they've all taken showers prior to
undergoing the hibernation injection. How much water does their ship
carry aboard? How much machinery does it take to recycle waste water,
and all that?
I'm just not convinced that ALL those necessities lie in some little
room behind the pressure door in the back of the ship's cabin! Looking
at Brent's ship, I don't see anywhere near enough room for these types
of things. Hence, my conclusion that these ships are shuttles,
intended to ferry landing parties down to the surface of a planet from
a larger, cargo-carrying orbiting ship (Yes, a "mothership"), just
like Professor Antelle's ship.

Patrick

>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@y...]
> > Sent: Sunday, 29 September 2002 0:15
> > To: pota@y...
> > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] POTA "chaloupes"...
> >
> >
> > --- In pota@y..., "Richard Cisak Jr." <rcisak@o...> wrote:
> > > Have you seen the size of the "bathroom" and "kitchen" in space
> > shuttle? The two of them together could easily fit in an airline
> > bathroom.
> >
> > *** How about that "six months' worth" (at the minimum) of Food, Water
> > (or Tang), toilet paper, soap, etc.? How much room would all THAT take
> > up? More than a few cubic meters, I'd bet.
> >
> > Patrick
> >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: patrickmichaeltilton
> > > To: pota@y...
> > > Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 9:44 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] POTA "chaloupes"...
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In pota@y..., "Richard Cisak Jr." <rcisak@o...> wrote:
> > > > "how 4 astronauts could survive for 6 months (prior to
> > going into their "deep sleep") in the cramped quarters seen in
> > the opening scenes. " Haven't you seen pictures on the inside of
> > Mir and Space Station Alpha? Cosmonauts have lived inside of Mir
> > for over a year, which is just as cramped as Heston's ship.
> > >
> > > *** There's a lot more room on Mir (or, there WAS until it
> > fried up in
> > > the atmosphere) and the Space Station than is seen to be available on
> > > the Taylor-&-Brent-type ships.
> > >
> > > I'll ask it again: Where's the Bathroom? Where's the Kitchen?
> > Is there
> > > room in that ship for cargo to sustain 4 people for 6 months (and,
> > > presumably, for at least the first month they spend at their
> > > destination once they wake up from hibernation)? If you look at the
> > > ship in BENEATH, which is probably a "sister-ship" to the one seen in
> > > PLANET, then there ain't enough room for all those extra necessaries.
> > > All that junk behind the part visible above the water seems to me to
> > > consist of 1.) LANDING GEAR (the 3 tripodal legs), 2.) THE ROCKET
> > > ENGINE'S EXHAUST BELL (clearly visible in the middle of that
> > hexagonal
> > > truss to which are connected those 3 landing legs), and 3.) THE FUEL
> > > TANK ASSEMBLY (after all, the rocket had to have burned fuel to slow
> > > its descent; too bad something went fubar and made it flop onto it's
> > > belly, requiring Brent to put out an engine fuel fire with that fire
> > > extinguisher).
> > > Between the "back wall" of what can be seen in the cabin of the ship
> > > in PLANET (with that pressure hatch in the middle), and the fuel tank
> > > assembly (which can be seen aft of the side "wings" of the BENEATH
> > > ship), there isn't much room there at all--most certainly not for a
> > > BATHROOM and a KITCHEN (or should I call them the "Head" and the
> > > "Mess" since it's a military mission?) and a CARGO HOLD. Since the
> > > tripodal landing legs are where they are, it's obvious that the ship
> > > Brent (crash)landed was supposed to land with the nosecone pointed
> > > straight up in the air, like a Christmas tree on its stand. One
> > > wonders, then, how Brent & Skipper were supposed to get out of their
> > > ship--and I think the answer is that there is a small airlock behind
> > > that "back wall" of the cabin, and a hatch leading from it to the
> > > outside on the underside of the vessel, which could not be used for
> > > egress, of course, with the ship flopped onto its belly. It was THIS
> > > unfortunate circumstance which necessitated Brent leaving the ship
> > > through the same forward escape hatch which Taylor's crew had to use
> > > (since their aftward area was flooded, making his ship angle
> > up in the
> > > water, neither floating flat--like the capsule in ESCAPE--nor bobbing
> > > like a buoy straight up).
> > >
> > > I consider these ANSA ships to be shuttlecraft. They are spaceplanes,
> > > able to descend from an orbiting ship (like the Galileo 7 from the
> > > U.S.S. ENTERPRISE), landing on their tripods, with enough fuel left
> > > for at least one more re-ascent into orbit. That should be obvious,
> > > because Milo finds one of these ships and is able to reach orbit--
> > > AFTER that ship had first landed FROM orbit.
> > >
> > > Feel free to argue for what you consider to be a more plausible
> > > explanation, though.
> > >
> > > Patrick
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > Service.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

*** Yeesh. How long are Taylor & Gang away from planet Earth ("their"
time, SHIP-TIME)? Eighteen months, right? The first 6 are spent awake,
the next 12 ("nearly a year") are spent hibernating.
Brent & Skipper (according to your scenario, I guess) are sent out
from planet Earth to follow after this ship, following Taylor's
trajectory across hundreds of lightyears, landing fairly near Taylor's
splashdown site several weeks (at least) after Taylor had landed.
Skipper's ship can be seen IN ITS ENTIRETY. Its ass-end isn't
submerged in the water (as was Taylor's ship), so we KNOW how big this
ship is. Would anybody be able to spend even one month (let alone 6 or
more) awake--and eating & pissing & shitting & showering etc.--in a
vessel as friggin' SMALL as this? Now THAT would be a crazy idea. My
scenario makes much better sense. You don't have to "accept it" (I've
never insisted that anybody had to), or like it... but for you to call
it crazy is just boneheaded on your part. If your "take" on these
disparate details made even one iota of sense, I'd take your
criticisms seriously. But so far all you do is yap alotta ("a lot of")
hooey. Ridicule from such as you doesn't faze me in the slightest.

Crazily yours,
Patrick

--- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> The point is, Patrick, you justified a crazy idea of yours based on your (crazy) interpretation of (and liberties taken with) a line by Taylor that Stewart is the most precious cargo. You essentially claim that this justifies your crazy conclusion that there is a mothership or even that it is a cargo ship, or even that there is the need for an enormous amount of cargo.
>
> My point is that referring to Stewart as precious cargo does not lead to any such conclusions.
>
> And yes, there is a common feeling here that you are a gold medalist in the conclusions jump, and that can be applied to nearly everything you "prove".
>
> Now if you are not imaginative enough to work out how a 60's movie would address shitting, pissing and eating in space, maybe you need to invent a mothership then spend years being ridiculed about the silly ways you justify this.
>
> Michael
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@y...]
> > Sent: Sunday, 29 September 2002 0:25
> > To: pota@y...
> > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Precious Cargo
> >
> >
> > --- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > > Hold everything!
> > >
> > > My wife gave me a lift home yesterday.
> > >
> > > She looked in the back of the car and said "these 4 kids are the most
> > > precious cargo in the car!"
> > >
> > > I immediately started looking for the kitchen and the toilet.
> > >
> > > I then asked why the car was not 20 foot long.
> > >
> > > My wife told me she thinks I am insane.
> > >
> > > I think she has a point.
> > >
> > > Michael
> >
> > *** Hmmm... Hey, Mike--howzabout spending half a year in that car (no
> > gettin' out all during that time, since its a "deep space" vacuum out
> > there, remember), without a toilet of SOME kind.
> > Then give all of us Yahoo groupies a jingle on yer radio, like Taylor
> > making his "final report", and tell us how great things are going in
> > your little "chaloupe".
> > And then sleep for a year... and, hopefully, your wife won't be all
> > shriveled up like Stewart when you wake up.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

--- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:

> Hey, Patrick, can you use a name that a dumb Aussie could draw a parallel to? I have no idea who Daddy Warbucks is....
>
> Michael

*** Somebody once ragged on me for not doing a sufficient Internet
search (regarding the name "Hasslein"). Why not look up "Daddy
Warbucks" yourself, Mike?
To save you the trouble, Daddy Warbucks is the name of a character in
the old "Little Orphan Annie" comic strip (not to be confused with
PLAYBOY magazine's "Little Annie Fanny"). He's the mega-rich guy who
(I think) adopts Annie; I've read that he was known to be a satire on
Paul Warburg, one of the tycoon types who created the Federal Reserve
System back in 1913.
Broadway produced an irritating-yet-popular musical ("Annie") based on
this comic strip. Don't you remember that annoying song "To-MOR-row...
to-MOR-row... I'll UP-chuck... to-MOR-row... it's only one meal
awayyyy..."?

Patrick

>
> > >
> > > I paid $200 for mine.
> > >
> > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1769132722
> > >
> > > Michael
> >
> > *** Pardon me while I pick up my lower jaw from the floor...
> >
> > TWO HUNDRED BUCKS FOR A "POTA" HELICOPTER?!!!!
> >
> > Who are ya... Daddy Warbucks?
> >
> > Patrick

.htmlIn a message dated 9/29/02 12:07:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

If your "take" on these
disparate details made even one iota of sense, I'd take your
criticisms seriously. But so far all you do is yap alotta ("a lot of")
hooey. Ridicule from such as you doesn't faze me in the slightest.

Crazily yours,
Patrick

Patrick, just take Michael on a voyage to Uranus and all will be forgiven!

-- Rory<.html

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 9/28/02 5:56:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> JamesA1102@a... writes:
>
>
> > Illogic?? Present your evidence Cornelius...um, Rory.
> >
> >
>
> My logic is simply: Zira and Cornelius have to meet Taylor and his spaceship first before they can return to earth's past, therefore a planet of apes has to come into being FIRST, independent of the apes coming from the future into the past, so that Taylor can crashland there and the apes can get his ship.
>
> Timelines, baby!!! Timelines. There's lots of 'em, and they don't go in circles. Patrick, please explain this to them!!!!
>
> -- Rory

*** Sorry, Rory, but we disagree on the "circularity" of the Timeline.
I'm with James on this one (albeit we disagree on other issues, of
course). Re-read Jerry Pournelle's novelization of ESCAPE; in it, the
President asks Hasslein whether or not there's a paradox involved with
the Ape-onauts going back in Time and creating their own Future (or,
Former Present?), and Hasslein tells him that he can prove it
mathematically that it IS possible...
Despite the "hope" that Caesar & Pals have towards changing the Future
("changing lanes"), the pessimism of the series, overall, tends to
push me into the pessimistic notion that Earth is/was/will be DOOMED
to be blown to smithereens on "... Doomsday... the End of the
World..." (as Taylor calls it).

Patrick

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:

> That's a load of crap, Patrick! According to Hanna-Barbera in the "Stone Age" they had cars, elevators, pianos. They just didn't need a fire dept. because everything was made out of stone.
> Actually, I thought that "Eve" theory had been ruled out. Though it was the basis for Oliver Stone's POTA script. - - - Jeff
>

*** On the contrary, it was vindicated by subsequent genetics work.
Mitochondrial DNA is the key to unlocking the truth about human
ancestry, at the genetic, individual level. The ending chapters of
Arthur C. Clarke's (and Stephen Baxter's) book "THE LIGHT OF OTHER
DAYS" involves a high-tech trip through one character's genetic
ancestry (somewhat reminiscent of Helius' brain-stimulating experiment
in Boulle's book, unlocking "genetic race memory" in the mute human
woman... who TALKS, describing the Past...) via the "wormcam"
invention. The guy is able to view his life like a film running
backwards... regressing into a baby, a fetus, an embryo, then
following the mitochondrial DNA (inherited only from the mother) into
his mother's life... then to his maternal grandmother... then HER
mother... then HER mother... back through hundreds & thousands of
generations, back through into the primate ancestors of all human
lineages which sprang from them. Ooo, it's a great book: go read it
pronto. Also read Brian Sykes' book, mentioned below. Clarke & Baxter
based that sequence in their book on Sykes' (and others') work.

Patrick

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@y...>
> To: <pota@y...>
> Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2002 8:36 AM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Unanswered Questions
>
>
> > --- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > > Here I am answering my own question....sort of.
> > >
> > > The big question for me was "How did apes overtake mankind?".
> > >
> > > I much prefer the idea of mankind devolving as "lower" primates
> > > evolve.
> > >
> > > How would you have explained it?
> > >
> > > With genetics? Nuclear mutation?
> > >
> > > Remember, I'm thinking in terms of no sequels yet existing.
> > >
> > > Michael
> >
> > *** In Boulle's novel, mankind "fell" through some sort of spiritual
> > ennui which somehow overtook the entire population, which ended up
> > preferring to live animalistic lives in zoos or in the wild. I've
> > always thought that that was kinda too much of a "Frenchy" nihilistic
> > Beat generation notion, which made the novel's scenario somewhat
> > implausible in my mind. I prefer what the movie PLANET suggests: that
> > the Apes perpetrated a "justified revenge" on Man, by "culling the
> > herd" (reducing the numbers of living humans: "... let him not breed
> > in great numbers...") and banishing humans to the harsh conditions of
> > the wild ("... drive him back into his jungle lair...").
> > If that ended up being the way ALL human beings were treated,
> > eventually, then the surviving population (Nova's tribe) in 3955--like
> > all other lifeforms--had adapted to their environment, finding enough
> > food to subsist on and keeping around enough of a population to breed
> > another generation of yahoos.
> > The human race existed in just such a state for hundreds of thousands
> > of years, prior to the invention of agriculture. The "Stone Age"
> > humans of Paleolithic times were just about as advanced as the "more
> > or less human" beings Taylor & Crew find, and didn't NEED to develop
> > higher intelligence in order to successfully live in their environment
> > (hell, they lived that way from about 2,000,000 B.C. until about
> > 15,000 years ago). They were "hunters and gatherers", able to find
> > food by either snarfing other animals (or, ugh, by cannibalizing the
> > weak amongst their own numbers...) or by eating the fruits & veggies
> > growing in the Ape croplands, just as they are caught doing when
> > Taylor first sees them.
> > Hunting and gathering tends to take up the vast majority of their
> > time, however, so there isn't that much of an opportunity to advance
> > intellectually--to be innovative and original. They just keep doing
> > what they know--what WORKS for them. The invention of agriculture
> > changed everything--allowing for more free time, so that individuals
> > (or sub-groups of a tribe) could specialize, doing particular things
> > very well instead of having everybody do everything at a merely
> > adequate level.
> > This "devolution" of humanity (in 3955) back to the "Stone Age"
> > reminds me of Einstein's line about how World War Four will be fought
> > with rocks and stones (World War Three, of course, being the Nuclear
> > War which will reduce civilization to a Stone Age level). The human
> > race, after the Nuclear War, after the emergence of the Smart Apes,
> > had to adapt to a new, harsher environment. As Zira says, the humans
> > of her time are mute NOT because of any anatomical flaw ("their speech
> > organs are adequate"), but because their brains are adapted to
> > survival in the jungle/forest/wilderness/wastelands ("... but in the
> > brain!"). Somehow, the use of vocal speech became no longer needed,
> > and fell into disuse (just as the wings of an ostrich or a penguin
> > cannot serve those creatures to fly anymore, as for their distant
> > evolutionary ancestors), so that the brain's "speech centers"
> > atrophied--through disuse. Why would the humans stop using speech?
> > Remember when Nova "hushes" Taylor (before Julius & the other gorillas
> > separate them into opposing cages)? Perhaps the ancestors of Nova's
> > tribe survived because they PURPOSELY SUPPRESSED the human ability to
> > speak. Perhaps there was a time, after the Apes ascended to dominance,
> > when Apes punished humans who dared to speak (sort of an extreme
> > example of what is shown in the "seed" phase in BATTLE, where Teacher
> > has to run for his life after forgetting he isn't allowed to say "No"
> > to an Ape). Maybe, in time, Apes got to be so much against the use of
> > ANY kind of speech amongst humans that they terrorized them--cutting
> > out the tongues of the offending "talkers" or something like that.
> > That'd sure be an incentive to "zip it". Eventually, the self-enforced
> > state of Silence resulted in "atrophied speech centers", so much so
> > that even when Taylor is fighting with the human who erases his
> > message ["I CAN WRITE", in the sand in the big outside cage], the
> > human doesn't even grunt or growl at him!
> >
> > I've been reading up on the conditions endured by the human race in
> > those by-gone times, in a fantastic book by Brian Sykes called "THE
> > SEVEN DAUGHTERS OF EVE: The Science that Reveals our Genetic
> > Ancestry". After reading it, I have to wonder who the "mitochondrial
> > ancestress" of Nova's tribe was... what her name was (if she had a
> > name), what her life was like. However harsh her existence was, that
> > mitochondrial DNA-carrying ancestress was a survivor, and her
> > offspring eventually carried that DNA with them... until they all died
> > in 3955, when Taylor triggers ALPHA OMEGA. "Damn them all to hell"
> > indeed.
> >
> > Patrick
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > > > Recently Rory asked a question about where you could have gone in
> > > the
> > > > TV series that had not already been covered.
> > > >
> > > > I actually made a lengthy response that was lost in the electronic
> > > > domain.
> > > >
> > > > Essentially, I believe the first movie contained cues for a sequel
> > > > that were not addressed. One that WAS addressed was the Forbidden
> > > > Zone, but I feel there is still much that could be uncovered there.
> > > >
> > > > One that was NOT addressed was the trial of Cornelius and Zira.
> > > >
> > > > Anyone have any more?
> > > >
> > > > Any ideas on what could have been in the Forbidden Zone other than
> > > > Mutants? Obviously, it was a hot spot for "in your face" evidence
> > > of
> > > > mankind's prior dominance, so what might you have included in the
> > > > Forbidden Zone if Beneath had not yet been scripted?
> > > >
> > > > I still like the idea of a sequel to the original movie. Maybe
> > > there
> > > > could be a twist at the end where Brent's ship lands.....
> > > >
> > > > Michael
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 9/28/02 11:38:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
>
> > *** In Boulle's novel, mankind "fell" through some sort of spiritual
> > ennui which somehow overtook the entire population, which ended up
> > preferring to live animalistic lives in zoos or in the wild. I've
> > always thought that that was kinda too much of a "Frenchy" nihilistic
> > Beat generation notion, which made the novel's scenario somewhat
> > implausible in my mind.
> >
>
> I don't get you there, Patrick, at all. First comes MTV, then 'reality TV,' then people stop reading, then machines or servants of some class or order do everything for them, all creature comforts are provided. Hey, didn't Wells do it first in "The Time Machine" with the Eloi? What's this "Frenchy" thing? You got something against the French? Boulle was French!!! What are you, Patrick? Some kind of heretic?!!! I think your mind is going!
>
> -- Rory

*** "Daisy... Daisy... give me your answer do..."

PAT 9000

.htmlIn a message dated 9/29/02 12:19:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

*** Sorry, Rory, but we disagree on the "circularity" of the Timeline.
I'm with James on this one (albeit we disagree on other issues, of
course). Re-read Jerry Pournelle's novelization of ESCAPE; in it, the
President asks Hasslein whether or not there's a paradox involved with
the Ape-onauts going back in Time and creating their own Future (or,
Former Present?), and Hasslein tells him that he can prove it
mathematically that it IS possible...
Despite the "hope" that Caesar & Pals have towards changing the Future
("changing lanes"), the pessimism of the series, overall, tends to
push me into the pessimistic notion that Earth is/was/will be DOOMED
to be blown to smithereens on "... Doomsday... the End of the
World..." (as Taylor calls it).

Patrick

Patrick, instead of going by the ESCAPE novelization, why don't you read Stephen Baxter's "The Time Ships," his sequel to Wells' "The Time Machine," and see what messes you get into when you start travelling along timelines.  I'm surprised and disappointed with you, Patrick.  Despite your "crazy" leaps to answer the series' inconsistencies, I thought you were more enlightened than this post indicates.

-- Rory <.html

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 9/28/02 11:38:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
>
> > This "devolution" of humanity (in 3978) back to the "Stone Age"
> > reminds me of Einstein's line about how World War Four will be fought
> > with rocks and stones (World War Three, of course, being the Nuclear
> > War which will reduce civilization to a Stone Age level). The human
> > race, after the Nuclear War, after the emergence of the Smart Apes,
> > had to adapt to a new, harsher environment. As Zira says, the humans
> > of her time are mute NOT because of any anatomical flaw ("their speech
> > organs are adequate"), but because their brains are adapted to
> > survival in the jungle/forest/wilderness/wastelands ("... but in the
> > brain!"). Somehow, the use of vocal speech became no longer needed,
> > and fell into disuse (just as the wings of an ostrich or a penguin
> > cannot serve those creatures to fly anymore, as for their distant
> > evolutionary ancestors), so that the brain's "speech centers"
> > atrophied--through disuse. Why would the humans stop using speech?
> > Remember when Nova "hushes" Taylor (before Julius & the other gorillas
> > separate them into opposing cages)? Perhaps the ancestors of Nova's
> > tribe survived because they PURPOSELY SUPPRESSED the human ability to
> > speak. Perhaps there was a time, after the Apes ascended to dominance,
> > when Apes punished humans who dared to speak (sort of an extreme
> > example of what is shown in the "seed" phase in BATTLE, where Teacher
> > has to run for his life after forgetting he isn't allowed to say "No"
> > to an Ape). Maybe, in time, Apes got to be so much against the use of
> > ANY kind of speech amongst humans that they terrorized them--cutting
> > out the tongues of the offending "talkers" or something like that.
> > That'd sure be an incentive to "zip it". Eventually, the self-enforced
> > state of Silence resulted in "atrophied speech centers", so much so
> > that even when Taylor is fighting with the human who erases his
> > message ["I CAN WRITE", in the sand in the big outside cage], the
> > human doesn't even grunt or growl at him!
> >
> >
>
> Patrick, you forget. . . the humans of 3978 can't just not speak, they also
> have the minds of animals. Their intellect has atrophied too.
>
> -- Rory

*** They know enough to prevent the Apes from even SUSPECTING that
they MAY have any higher brain functions. Nova and that other yahoo
purposely erase Taylor's message: Why? The do it because they KNOW
that the act of writing is a display of an attribute that'll getcha
killed by those mean ol' monkeys. These yahoo humans may not all be
Einsteins, but they know how to survive in their harsh environment
(until, that is, they get caught by a hunting party of gorillas).

Patrick

.html

Re-read Jerry Pournelle's novelization of ESCAPE; in it, the
President asks Hasslein whether or not there's a paradox involved with
the Ape-onauts going back in Time and creating their own Future (or,
Former Present?), and Hasslein tells him that he can prove it
mathematically that it IS possible...

I thought you "never" took what the novelizations say into account anyway?!

I remember when I pointed out how the Apes do indeed have books (and I used the novelization of "The Surgeon" for text to back my case up,) you said that you don't use anything from the books in your theory, because they aren't "canon" to you... If you still say that, than why "quote" the Escape novel?<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/29/02 12:30:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

I'm just not convinced that ALL those necessities lie in some little
room behind the pressure door in the back of the ship's cabin! Looking
at Brent's ship, I don't see anywhere near enough room for these types
of things. Hence, my conclusion that these ships are shuttles,
intended to ferry landing parties down to the surface of a planet from
a larger, cargo-carrying orbiting ship (Yes, a "mothership"), just
like Professor Antelle's ship.

Patrick

I have no problem with the idea that there could be a mothership in orbit during the events of PLANET (since that was what Boulle did in the novel), but it does bother me that the crew wasn't awakened before their shuttle craft decided to take them to the surface, that Taylor and the rest of the crew would sleep in the shuttle craft during the voyage, and that you, Patrick, would place Brent and his crew up in the mothership the whole time during PLANET's events.
Pleeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaase!

-- Rory<.html

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 9/29/02 11:22:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
>
> > *** Going by your side-by-side comparison maps, what is the distance
> > from the Ape City area ("... We're here...") to the Green Area/
> > Waterfall/Scarecrows/Cornfield ("... you were captured here...")? The
> > gorillas who hunted Taylor had to cart him and the other survivors of
> > the Hunt all the way back to Ape City... yet Taylor had been shot in
> > the throat, and had suffered a loss of blood which required that Dr.
> > Galen perform a blood transfusion from Nova to Taylor.
> > If the distance from the Hunt area to Ape City were too far, wouldn't
> > Taylor have bled to death? This is the first time I've mentioned this
> > aspect of the situation, but it seems to me that Taylor's bloodloss
> > requires that the travel time back to Ape City must not take up
> > altogether too much time.
> >
>
> I've never thought about this either, Patrick, but you bring up a very good
> point. If you look again at the PLANET map the distance between where Taylor
> is shot and captured and Ape City is greater than where his spaceship
> crashlands and the greenbelt the astronauts walk to. But if you're going to
> make the area this map covers so small that the gorilla wagon can get to Ape
> City before Taylor bleeds to death, then it only would have taken the
> astronauts a day or so to get to the greenbelt.
> [Unable to display image]
> As with a lot in the POTA series, there's just so many inconsistances.
>
> -- Rory

*** You're forgetting the "mountains" (mentioned by Zira) which were
traversed by the astronauts. It wasn't all flat desert. It would have
taken some time to find a way down & around the cliffs you see just
before they encounter the scarecrow region.

Patrick

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 9/29/02 11:27:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
>
> > *** I admire the work that the CG artist did to produce this image, as
> > well as the efforts of like-minded others, but it'd be nice if they
> > took into account the images of the aft end from BENEATH. If PLANET
> > were all we had to go on, then I'd probably opt for a design such as
> > this one... but with Brent's ship looking the way it does, it requires
> > an explanation which these fan-made designs totally ignore.
> >
> > Patrick
>
> And by the same turn the BENEATH design requires an explanation of the ship's
> interior as seen in PLANET. How do you move in that cabin when it's
> vertical? This is just another of the great POTA inconsistances!!!
>
> -- Rory

*** That's what all those "handle-bars" are for. There's plenty of 'em
in there, along the ceiling, in that trough between the front seats,
you name it.

Patrick

.htmlIn a message dated 9/29/02 12:33:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

Ooo, it's a great book (THE LIGHT OF OTHER DAYS): go read it pronto. Also read Brian Sykes' book, mentioned below. Clarke & Baxter
based that sequence in their book on Sykes' (and others') work.

Patrick

You go read Baxter's THE TIME SHIPS, Patrick, then get back to me if you still believe in circular timelines!!!

-- Rory
<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/29/02 11:41:24 AM Central Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

*** They know enough to prevent the Apes from even SUSPECTING that
they MAY have any higher brain functions. Nova and that other yahoo
purposely erase Taylor's message: Why? The do it because they KNOW
that the act of writing is a display of an attribute that'll getcha
killed by those mean ol' monkeys. These yahoo humans may not all be
Einsteins, but they know how to survive in their harsh environment
(until, that is, they get caught by a hunting party of gorillas).

Patrick

I never took their act as a deliberate act of trying to "destroy" his message... I always took it as they are curious beasts and they are "investigating" this strange thing appearing in the sand...<.html

--- In pota@y..., mlccougar@a... wrote:

>
> > Re-read Jerry Pournelle's novelization of ESCAPE; in it, the
> > President asks Hasslein whether or not there's a paradox involved with
> > the Ape-onauts going back in Time and creating their own Future (or,
> > Former Present?), and Hasslein tells him that he can prove it
> > mathematically that it IS possible...
>
> I thought you "never" took what the novelizations say into account anyway?!
>
> I remember when I pointed out how the Apes do indeed have books (and I used
> the novelization of "The Surgeon" for text to back my case up,) you said that
> you don't use anything from the books in your theory, because they aren't
> "canon" to you... If you still say that, than why "quote" the Escape novel?

*** Did I say, in the posting above, that that bit from the ESCAPE
novelization is--in my opinion--"canon"? Nope. I just happen to agree
with the Pournelle-given notion he gives to Hasslein. If an item in a
novelization isn't a distortion of what's in the actual filmed movie,
and if it makes sense, then I'm not averse to considering such an item
as potentially "part" of the POTA saga.

Patrick

In a message dated 9/29/02 6:36:37 AM, JamesA1102@... writes:

<< Finally since the Apes mimiced the human society that came before it
and if Ape city were in North Carolina, why don't the Apes have
southern accents? Why are there no rusting old washing machines in
front of the houses in Ape City? Why is Zira not engaged to her
nephew Lucius? ;-) >>

Ahem...Speaking as a North Carolinian.....I assure you that not all of us
have trash surrounding living spaces or are inbred or even have deep
accents.......

.htmlIn a message dated 9/29/02 12:41:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

*** They know enough to prevent the Apes from even SUSPECTING that
they MAY have any higher brain functions. Nova and that other yahoo
purposely erase Taylor's message: Why? The do it because they KNOW
that the act of writing is a display of an attribute that'll getcha
killed by those mean ol' monkeys. These yahoo humans may not all be
Einsteins, but they know how to survive in their harsh environment
(until, that is, they get caught by a hunting party of gorillas).

Patrick

PATRICK! PATRICK! PATRICK!!!!!  Are you mad?!!!  They rub out Taylor's writing in the sand because they were "aping" him.  Go back and read Boulle!!!  The humans in the first and second film were, like in the novel, regressed animalistic creatures.  Mankind returned to the ape.

Patrick, I was just beginning to think I could make friends with you, now these postings today.  YOU'RE SCREWY!!!

-- Rory<.html

The apes mimiced there culture on the human culture that proceeded
it. So they would have the same meaning for North and East.

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 9/29/02 6:36:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> JamesA1102@a... writes:
>
>
> > Why not? There is just no reason to indicate that they would.
Why
> > would they change the meanings of North & East while retain the
> > meanings of all other words? That is just not logical.
> >
>
> The apes don't know any better, but I really think the map was
held sideways
> in PLANET just to fool the audience.

.htmlIn a message dated 9/29/02 12:02:58 PM Central Daylight Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

The apes mimiced there culture on the human culture that proceeded
it. So they would have the same meaning for North and East.

Yeah, they would... I always agreed with you on that one, and I still do...<.html

Attachments :

.htmlThis map shows the placement of ape city which it where Cornelius points to by the river. (Sorry Jeff)

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> I guess you're right there, however that still doesn't explain that Taylor
> rides north to find the Statue of Liberty and James would place Ape City
> north of where it is.

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/29/02 12:47:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

*** You're forgetting the "mountains" (mentioned by Zira) which were
traversed by the astronauts. It wasn't all flat desert. It would have
taken some time to find a way down & around the cliffs you see just
before they encounter the scarecrow region.

Patrick

No, I don't want to accept your and James' contention that the area of Cornelius' map only shows a small "known world" to the apes.  They have two THOUSAND years of living there.  I can't accept they wouldn't have explored more, Forbidden Zones or not.  The area the astronauts trek in the film is a vast part of what was one of the east coast states of the US.  It wasn't just Newark, New Jersey or something.  Here's my theory:  Taylor's throat wound was treated in the field to keep him from losing any more blood during the roughly two day trip to Ape City.  It's also a two day trip for Zira and Lucius in their wagon to take Taylor back to the area where he was captured and to meet up with Cornelius.  There!  Now, I've settled everything, that's it!

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/29/02 12:48:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

*** That's what all those "handle-bars" are for. There's plenty of 'em
in there, along the ceiling, in that trough between the front seats,
you name it.

Patrick

Okay, I can accept that.  In fact, I already thought of it, but I wanted to get your view, Patrick.

-- Rory<.html

Attachments :

.html
I haven't bothered to go back and check the movie, but if Roddy McDowall pointed to where you place the name "Ape City," James (and why don't you capture that image?), then my explanation is that McDowall wasn't watching where he was pointing.  There!  Problem solved!

-- Rory <.html

Attachments :

.html And this is NOT Long Island, James.  No way.  Cornelius's cave is along the shoreline with the ocean, then Taylor rides further north along that shoreline to find the Statue.  And, remember Cornelius' line in BENEATH about where they last saw Taylor, "Riding north, on the land between the ocean and the sea."  That's this area of the map, James!    OK, now knock this one down, James!

-- Rory <.html

To be fair I was the one who said that not Patrick. Which is why
I've never used the arguement that in the novelization of Escape
Cornelius identifies the NYC area as the location of Ape City and
the Forbidden Zone in all our map discussions.

--- In pota@y..., mlccougar@a... wrote:
> I remember when I pointed out how the Apes do indeed have books
(and I used
> the novelization of "The Surgeon" for text to back my case up,)
you said that
> you don't use anything from the books in your theory, because they
aren't
> "canon" to you... If you still say that, than why "quote" the
Escape novel?

Just joking Tim. No offense intended.

--- In pota@y..., apefan23@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 9/29/02 6:36:37 AM, JamesA1102@a... writes:
>
> << Finally since the Apes mimiced the human society that came
before it
> and if Ape city were in North Carolina, why don't the Apes have
> southern accents? Why are there no rusting old washing machines in
> front of the houses in Ape City? Why is Zira not engaged to her
> nephew Lucius? ;-) >>
>
> Ahem...Speaking as a North Carolinian.....I assure you that not
all of us
> have trash surrounding living spaces or are inbred or even have
deep
> accents.......

.htmlIn a message dated 9/29/02 1:33:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, apefan23@... writes:

In a message dated 9/29/02 6:36:37 AM, JamesA1102@... writes:

<< Finally since the Apes mimiced the human society that came before it
and if Ape city were in North Carolina, why don't the Apes have
southern accents? Why are there no rusting old washing machines in
front of the houses in Ape City? Why is Zira not engaged to her
nephew Lucius? ;-) >>

Ahem...Speaking as a North Carolinian.....I assure you that not all of us
have trash surrounding living spaces or are inbred or even have deep
accents.......

Yeah, and following James' illogic then why don't the apes have Bronx accents, or Brooklyn, or Jersey ones?

-- Rory<.html

I thought we were discussing this from a Planet only basis. When I
previously brought Beneath (which would prove that Ape City is close
to NYC) into it you said it didn't count because Beneath was a mess.

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> [Unable to display image] And this is NOT Long Island, James. No
way. Cornelius's cave is along the
> shoreline with the ocean, then Taylor rides further north along
that
> shoreline to find the Statue. And, remember Cornelius' line in
BENEATH about
> where they last saw Taylor, "Riding north, on the land between the
ocean and
> the sea." That's this area of the map, James! OK, now knock
this one
> down, James!
>
> -- Rory

It's called a joke Rory:-)

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> Yeah, and following James' illogic then why don't the apes have
Bronx
> accents, or Brooklyn, or Jersey ones?
>
> -- Rory

.htmlIn a message dated 9/29/02 1:41:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

To be fair I was the one who said that not Patrick. Which is why
I've never used the arguement that in the novelization of Escape
Cornelius identifies the NYC area as the location of Ape City and
the Forbidden Zone in all our map discussions.

I now remember that in the ESCAPE novelization, but all it proves is that the people at Fox and the writers of the books didn't want to deal with the inconsistencies between PLANET and BENEATH.  It was just accept what's in BENEATH as the way it is so that the rest of the series makes better sense.  That's one of the reasons I look at the series as PLANET, its sequel BENEATH, then BENEATH's prequels ESCAPE, CONQUEST and BATTLE.  The last three films in the APES series have NOTHING to do with PLANET.  They are ANATHEMA to PLANET.  By the very Gods of POTADOM, I do swear this to be so!

Oh no, you other POTA fans are starting to drive me crazy again!

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/29/02 1:50:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

It's called a joke Rory:-)

Whatever!  Let's fight about maps some more!
<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/29/02 12:41:23 PM Central Daylight Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

Yes, I do recall you also mentioning that about the novelizations... But, Patrick did also use the argument that the novels aren't canon. (I believe he said only the actual films and their corresponding scripts were canon in his eyes.) I on the other hand used the argument that just because something was not in the filmed piece that it could be canon... For instance, in the Beneath novel, it has the meeting of Ursus, Zaius, and the Minister... Now just because we didn't see this doesn't mean it didn't happen... It fits in with the established story of Beneath, so why not include it as canon? I do...

To be fair I was the one who said that not Patrick. Which is why
I've never used the arguement that in the novelization of Escape
Cornelius identifies the NYC area as the location of Ape City and
the Forbidden Zone in all our map discussions.

--- In pota@y..., mlccougar@a... wrote:
> I remember when I pointed out how the Apes do indeed have books
(and I used
> the novelization of "The Surgeon" for text to back my case up,)
you said that
> you don't use anything from the books in your theory, because they
aren't
> "canon" to you... If you still say that, than why "quote" the
Escape novel?

<.html

.html

The apes don't know any better, but I really think the map was held sideways in PLANET just to fool the audience.

Or perhaps all those H bombs caused a polar shift.<.html

.htmlIn the first film I'd say the former, in the second the latter, but it sent them both to the same place in roughly the same time.  Another great POTA inconsistency.

Not really.  Space is curved.  Traveling at such great speeds, in order to achieve warp, there's no reason you wouldn't end up right back where you started from.  But it would probably take a lot longer.  Nice use of A LOT, don't you think?<.html

.html

Would anybody be able to spend even one month (let alone 6 or
more) awake--and eating & pissing & shitting & showering etc.--in a
vessel as friggin' SMALL as this? Now THAT would be a crazy idea.

Yeah, but what's really crazy is that he's able to WALK to the stases chamber.  Those boots didn't look magnetic, did they.  They aren't.  How can I make such a statement so matter-of-factly?  Elementary my dear Tilton, he lit a cigar.  If there were no artificial gravity ha would have burnt his finger because there would be no up for the flame to rise to.  That would make the pissing and pooping and showering more earth like.  But, and this is the real question, what about spanking the ape?  It's a question that has puzzled me even back in the Sky-Lab days.  I know they told the astronauts to, to prevent prostate cancer, and one to abstain as a control.  But with Stewart on board, why bother?  There must have been a whole lotta SPACE SEX goin' on!  Nice use of LOTTA, don't you think?

<.html

A collector friend of mine who lives in L.A was telling me that there isn't
as many collector shows anymore because dealers make more money from Ebay.
The last time I saw a copy of Toy Shop, it was pretty thin.

----- Original Message -----
From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2002 8:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Rare ebay item


> I saw a report on CNN that Ebay and other auction sites had pushed
> down the price of baseball cards. In the past collectors were
> reliant on their local dealers who could set whatever price they
> could get. Ebay openned things up so collectors could trade around
> the world forcing dealers to compete with each other driving prices
> lower.
>
> --- In pota@y..., "Ken and Heather Taylor" <ktaylor@z...> wrote:
> > I think you're pretty right there Jeff, In the early days of Ebay,
> there
> > were a few high-rollers who would constantly push the prices up of
> certain
> > items because they had the disposable in come to do so. Then other
> sellers
> > would see what the item went for and others would pop up and once
> the core
> > high rollers were satisfied, the items dropped down to more
> reasonable
> > prices. Before Ebay I used to subscribe to Toy Shop magazine but
> even air
> > freighted, I'd get it a week after it came out so anything cool
> that was
> > reasonably priced was already sold. It was a good source for
> getting the
> > more common APE items at good prices.
> > Best,
> > KEN
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <veetus@e...>
> > To: <pota@y...>
> > Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2002 1:22 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Rare ebay item
> >
> >
> > > Hey Michael,
> > >
> > > Do you think e-bay is a source of dropping prices? Was there an
> e-bay
> > when
> > > you bought the helicopter? I think now people have more
> confidence that
> > that
> > > they can find what they want on the internet, where before they
> might
> > think,
> > > " A POTA helicopter?! This is my only shot. I'll never come
> across it's
> > like
> > > again." - - - Jeff
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...>
> > > To: <pota@y...>
> > > Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2002 4:18 PM
> > > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Rare ebay item
> > >
> > >
> > > > That makes sense - as the collectors get an item its value
> decreases.
> > > >
> > > > There was one guy who would randomly buy and sell his
> collection. He
> > > would
> > > > have easily pushed the price to $500 if he did not have it and
> wanted it
> > > > (and would oftn seel for a fraction of that....then buy it
> again years
> > > > later).
> > > >
> > > > It's a sickness......
> > > >
> > > > Michael
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: apefan23@a... [apefan23@a...]
> > > > > Sent: Sunday, 29 September 2002 4:15
> > > > > To: pota@y...
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Rare ebay item
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > In a message dated 9/28/02 11:54:22 AM,
> > > > > patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
> > > > >
> > > > > << This is sitting on a very affordable price and I would
> say it is
> > not
> > > > > > a common item.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I paid $200 for mine. >>
> > > > >
> > > > > this last one went for 90 bucks
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.htmlIn a message dated 9/29/02 2:29:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

I thought we were discussing this from a Planet only basis. When I
previously brought Beneath (which would prove that Ape City is close
to NYC) into it you said it didn't count because Beneath was a mess.

How true, how true, But this is one instance where BENEATH got it right!  And it is a mess!!<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/29/02 3:51:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

But, and this is the real question, what about spanking the ape?  It's a question that has puzzled me even back in the Sky-Lab days.  I know they told the astronauts to, to prevent prostate cancer, and one to abstain as a control.  But with Stewart on board, why bother?  There must have been a whole lotta SPACE SEX goin' on!  Nice use of LOTTA, don't you think?

 

What's that floating around the cabin?

-- Rory (who's in no danger of getting prostate cancer)<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/29/02 4:00:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ktaylor@... writes:

A collector friend of mine who lives in L.A was telling me that there isn't
as many collector shows anymore because dealers make more money from Ebay.
The last time I saw a copy of Toy Shop, it was pretty thin.

The same thing has become true with movie poster collecting.  Boy, I wish I invented and owen eBay.com.  I'd have enough money to buy one of those 60" plasma TVs.

-- Rory<.html

So you're saying that Beneath got it right by placing Ape City close
to NYC.

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 9/29/02 2:29:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> JamesA1102@a... writes:
>
>
> > I thought we were discussing this from a Planet only basis. When
I
> > previously brought Beneath (which would prove that Ape City is
close
> > to NYC) into it you said it didn't count because Beneath was a
mess.
> >
> >
> >
>
> How true, how true, But this is one instance where BENEATH got it
right! And
> it is a mess!!

.html

PATRICK! PATRICK! PATRICK!!!!!  Are you mad?!!!  They rub out Taylor's writing in the sand because they were "aping" him.

I don't know Rory.  I didn't get that impression at all.  If it were just a case of the writing maybe, but she doesn't even like him to talk.<.html

Attachments :

.htmlClick here: eBay item 1566554484 (Ends Oct-04-02 16:24:14 PDT ) - HESTON SCI FI PLANET OF THE APES ORIG SCRIPT

Cool item.  Lousy photo.  I'd like to get it just to read what Wilson wrote before Kelley did his re-write.

-- Rory <.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/29/02 4:15:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

So you're saying that Beneath got it right by placing Ape City close
to NYC.

No, and you know I'm not!  You just like arguing.  I'm talking about that one detail as to where the apes last saw Taylor.  You're being a wisenhymer because you can't refute my mighty intellect.<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2002 3:14 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Cartography of the Planet of the Apes

In a message dated 9/28/02 2:40:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, apefan23@... writes:

could the statue not have broken and floated around and washed up anywhere
along the coast not necessarily in the bay off Manhattan?

The statue would not float, and in actuality is highly unlikely to survive for two thousand years to look like what it did at the end of PLANET.  Maybe if it where solid stainless steel, but not an iron framework and nickel-thick plates of copper.  It would disintegrate completely in a couple hundred years, and a nuclear blast would blow it apart.

I wonder if on 9/11 the terrorist had flown a plane into the Statue of Liberty how much of it would be left?  It would get rebuilt though.  We've still got the plans and molds from the restoration.

-- Rory
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Anthony B. McElveen

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2002 2:08 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] How about this for a POTA film?

I saw "The Plague Dogs," then read the book by Richard Adams. They did a
great job of editing 8 hours worth of material into a movie of
reasonable length.

The Brits seem to have more respect for source material than American
film producers. I can just imagine the Hollywood version with the Taco
Bell chihuahua and a happy ending.

Anthony

On Saturday, September 28, 2002, at 11:39  AM, patrickmichaeltilton
wrote:

> *** Hmmm... if the animation style were like the animated versions of
> "WATERSHIP DOWN" and "THE PLAGUE DOGS", done in realistic fashion by
> Brits, I'd be first in line. Anybody else here ever see those flicks?
> I thought they were fantastic. I haven't read the books they're based
> on, but these two animated movies are 2 of the 10 best ones ever made,
> in my opinion.
>
> Patrick


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: james611102

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2002 3:08 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Physiological Defects...

You're assuming that when they made Beneath they were thinking that
the ape revolt and the nuclear war were concurrent events as
portrayed in the later films. From the evidence in Planet and
Beneath alone you can assume the nuclear war was in the late 20th-
early 21st centuries. However, there is nothing in either film that
apes rose until much later. Once they started doing the sequals they
realized they had written themselves into a corner and addressed it
the best they could.


--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> I think it was a screw-up because Dehn didn't seem to read in
Boulle's book
> were it took generations for the apes to take over.  He should
have somehow
> shown that New York City was destroyed in a nuclear war that took
place a
> long time after the astronauts left.

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 9/29/02 4:16:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

PATRICK! PATRICK! PATRICK!!!!!  Are you mad?!!!  They rub out Taylor's writing in the sand because they were "aping" him.

I don't know Rory.  I didn't get that impression at all.  If it were just a case of the writing maybe, but she doesn't even like him to talk.


Look, Nova has been following him around in the cage all day, she points to her arm because she seems to remember the transfusion, he writes in the sand and Nova imitates him by going over what he's done.  The male human does the same.  But to say that they understand that he's writing and don't want the apes to see it -- that goes to far.  The humans may have some smarts left, but they're not that smart.  I would say it would take several generations to bring back human intellect, but both Boulle and the filmmakers seem to think it only takes a few hundred years or a couple decades to make apes into men, why not the reverse?  I don't know.  This APES series is crazy, I tell you.

-- Rory

-- Rory<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2002 4:28 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Space monkeys in the news

Reminds me of that movie with Matthew Broderick and Helen Hunt,
about chimps being used by the military to test fly jets.

Speaking of chimps...Jane Goodall is going IMAX.  That'll be interesting.  And Fifi and Goblin are still alive.  Fifi is now the matriarch.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2002 3:16 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] WOW!!!

In a message dated 9/28/02 2:47:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

Go away for a couple of weeks and you miss alot here. I've noticed
that there have been more posts this month that all but one since
the club started. It's going to take me forever to catch up.

While you're catching up try to learn that it's A LOT, not "alot"!!!!
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

<.html

Attachments :

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: JamesA1102@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2002 5:59 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Planet

You mean like this:

I wouldn't add any deleted scenes. the film is perfect as it is.

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
>   My choice would be fixing the time on the chronometer to 3955 so it matches the other films. And adding deleted scenes. - - - Jeff
>
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.htmlIt's also a two day trip for Zira and Lucius in their wagon to take Taylor back to the area where he was captured and to meet up with Cornelius.  There!  Now, I've settled everything, that's it!

No it isn't!  Where do you get that?  Two days?  It's late at night when Zira and Lucius spring Taylor.  They drive all night and by morning, or at least afternoon they're back where they got caught.  Seems to me that it's only 12 to 14 hours away at most.  <.html

But you said the Apes don't use the same words to indicate North and
East. So then when Cornelius said "towards the North" (and if you
look at the map they were riding North)he really meant another
direction.

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> No, and you know I'm not! You just like arguing. I'm talking
about that one
> detail as to where the apes last saw Taylor. You're being a
wisenhymer
> because you can't refute my mighty intellect.