The Roryster is right, the other ape groups are pretty quiet if not
completely silent.

Kass

.htmlIn a message dated 11/3/02 11:30:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

Or "Lunch On Liquor".

Michael

Or "Lots of Licks."<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/4/02 12:08:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

Patrick complimented Rory on his reviews for Internet Movie Database and I responded: "You should read Rory's review of the sequels that was in "Ape Chronicles". It's blistering reading. Maybe I'll post it. AH HA HA HA! - - - Jeff"

Oh, that was written back in the days when I felt PLANET wasn't gettin' NO respect.  Of course, I blamed it on those damn dirty sequels that had turned what was once a cool adult SF film into cheesy kiddie fare.  But then came the 30th Anniversary and POTA was saved (only to be nearly ruined again by the greed of Fox).

But go ahead and post.  Maybe it'll get Kassidy all mad at me again.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/4/02 12:19:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

My first "Apes" experience was "Escape" on CBS before the series. Don't know if it was the premiere or the repeat. Never saw any "Ape" movies in a theatre until the original in 1990 on a double bill with "Beneath" in the mid '90's and with "Escape" the next year (both times I saw it with Eric Greene, his book had come out by the
"Escape" screening and the theatre asked him to introduce the films). I saw "Planet" 2 more times, at the anniversary party and a 2000 Egyptian Theatre showing with guest Heston. Both times were the same remastered print with a "Behind the POTA" ad on the print (the "Fox unlocks the vaults" ad). Growing up I wanted so bad to see POTA in a theatre, then in the last decade it's amazing how many times I was able to see it. The prints of 'Beneath" and "Escape" were piss poor. - - - Jeff"

You must have seen ESCAPE on its network premiere.  It wasn't repeated again until after the TV series was canceled.

The last time I saw PLANET in a theatre -- way back during the "Go Ape" reissue in 1974 -- the print was piss poor.  Movie prints don't last very long before they start to show wear and tear.

I'd really love to see PLANET in a theatre again, but only a restored print with good quality sound.  The film should have had a 30th Anniversary reissue in the summer of '98.  I bet it would have done well, not amazingly, but OK.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/4/02 3:13:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

Yeah, I like oceans as well.  But for some reason I usually prefer them in Technicolor.  The water was so blue it always seemed like they were in the Caribbean, even if it was supposed to be the Pacific or the North Atlantic.  I like the blue water so much sometimes I put Tidy Bowl in the toilet.  The only exceptions are Captain Blood, The Creature From The Black Lagoon and Sea Hunt.

Ever 'see' "The Sea Hawk" with Errol Flynn, T?   Pretty good.<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 7:09 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] First Times

In a message dated 11/4/02 12:19:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

My first "Apes" experience was "Escape" on CBS before the series. Don't know if it was the premiere or the repeat. Never saw any "Ape" movies in a theatre until the original in 1990 on a double bill with "Beneath" in the mid '90's and with "Escape" the next year (both times I saw it with Eric Greene, his book had come out by the
"Escape" screening and the theatre asked him to introduce the films). I saw "Planet" 2 more times, at the anniversary party and a 2000 Egyptian Theatre showing with guest Heston. Both times were the same remastered print with a "Behind the POTA" ad on the print (the "Fox unlocks the vaults" ad). Growing up I wanted so bad to see POTA in a theatre, then in the last decade it's amazing how many times I was able to see it. The prints of 'Beneath" and "Escape" were piss poor. - - - Jeff"

You must have seen ESCAPE on its network premiere.  It wasn't repeated again until after the TV series was canceled.

The last time I saw PLANET in a theatre -- way back during the "Go Ape" reissue in 1974 -- the print was piss poor.  Movie prints don't last very long before they start to show wear and tear.

I'd really love to see PLANET in a theatre again, but only a restored print with good quality sound.  The film should have had a 30th Anniversary reissue in the summer of '98.  I bet it would have done well, not amazingly, but OK.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/4/2002 6:42:27 AM Central Standard Time, valwp@... writes:

The Roryster is right, the other ape groups are pretty quiet if not
completely silent.

Kass

Yeah, the Ape grouphad only a half dozen posts in as many years.  When I went over there to tell them about this group a couple of them jumped ship.  I guess that post broke the camels back.  Don't think they joined here though.  This is The Ape group!  I checked the Kim Hunter group.  They didn't even post that she'd pass on.

<.html

.htmlThe Roryster is right, the other ape groups are pretty quiet if not
completely silent.

Speaking of that, Yahoo should list groups by activity, and not membership.  I wanted to find out more about anime, so I joined the Tenchi group.  They have more than twelve thousand member and I haven't heard a peep out of 'em in like a month.  I don't think there have been ten posts since I joined. Membership don't mean shite.<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/4/2002 9:03:19 AM Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

I blamed it on those damn dirty sequels that had turned what was once a cool adult SF film into cheesy kiddie fare.

Gee, that sounds familiar.  Now where have I seen this trend before?  Oh yeah, Star Wars.<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/4/2002 9:13:46 AM Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

Ever 'see' "The Sea Hawk" with Errol Flynn, T?

Yes I have, though it's not as deeply burned into my brain as Captain Blood.  The fencing scene on the beach with Basil Rathbone is one of, if not THE best ever!<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/4/02 11:25:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

  How do you know "Escape" wasn't repeated, sir? Do you have a date of broadcast? That's where it all began. - - - Jeff

I know because I remember those days quite well.  ESCAPE had its broadcast TV premiere on the CBS network on Friday, November 16, 1973.  CBS didn't broadcast it again until September 6, 1977 on their late movie.  I know these things because I wrote them down at the time and still have my notes.

PLANET was first broadcast on September 14, 1973, then repeated by CBS on April 25, 1975, then shown for the third and last time on CBS on August 27, 1976.

BENEATH premiered on CBS on October 26, 1973, and repeated on April 16, 1976 (cut to only 72 minutes)

CONQUEST was first shown on CBS on November 14, 1974, and repeated on September 1, 1976.

BATTLE was first shown on CBS on January 17, 1975 (cut to 72 min.), and was repeated on June 17, 1977 (cut to 72 min.)

And that's the history of the APES movies on CBS.  Write all this down if it's important to you!

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/4/02 11:51:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

Yes I have, though it's not as deeply burned into my brain as Captain Blood.  The fencing scene on the beach with Basil Rathbone is one of, if not THE best ever!

Yes, it is.  And they fenced again in THE ADVENTURES OF ROBIN HOOD.  I can't wait for that to come to DVD.<.html

It was first broadcast on November 14, 1973 at 9PM (EST). And it
wasn't repeated for a long time after the show was canceled.

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> How do you know "Escape" wasn't repeated, sir? Do you have a date
of broadcast? That's where it all began. - - - Jeff

Opps. Just read Rory's post and he's right it was the 16th. The 14th
is my niece's birthday. Forgive but I was just going from memory and
switched the dates.

--- In pota@y..., "james611102" <JamesA1102@a...> wrote:
> It was first broadcast on November 14, 1973 at 9PM (EST). And it
> wasn't repeated for a long time after the show was canceled.

.html In a message dated 11/4/02 3:13:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

Yeah, I like oceans as well.  But for some reason I usually prefer them in Technicolor.  The water was so blue it always seemed like they were in the Caribbean, even if it was supposed to be the Pacific or the North Atlantic.  I like the blue water so much sometimes I put Tidy Bowl in the toilet.  The only exceptions are Captain Blood, The Creature From The Black Lagoon and Sea Hunt.

Ever 'see' "The Sea Hawk" with Errol Flynn, T?   Pretty good.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .
<.html

I never got to see any of the originals in the theatre :(. I guess I'm just
too young. I hope there is a time when I will be able to, actually, because
I can imagine how awesome that would be.

-Joe

.htmlIn a message dated 11/4/02 3:59:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

Another Aussie.

Michael



Yeah, Errol Flynn was an Aussie, and what a good role model he was!<.html

You know I actually very much took the wide screen for granted. I
saw all of them in the theatre or at the drive-in...also saw all of
them on TV. I was just happy to see them, I never discriminated
between the screens!

I would love to see Planet on a large screen with the original sound
as per the way Rory described it, but the others are just fine in my
living room on a 70cm screen TV in surround sound.....and I can keep
watching them over and over.

Don't be too concerned Joe.

Michael

--- CheeseGOTAS@... wrote:

> I never got to see any of the originals in the theatre :(. I guess

I'm just

> too young. I hope there is a time when I will be able to,

actually, because

> I can imagine how awesome that would be.
>
> -Joe
>
>
>
>

>
>
>

There's a popular song here by a band called "Australian Crawl" and
the chorus goes:

"Ohhh Errol,
I would give everything
Just to be like him."

I don't know just how much sarasm is involved, but I imagine if his
repertoire involved excessive drinking, screwing and wealth, he would
be the icon of many of our young lads.

What else did he get up to?

Michael Hutchence (another good Aussie role model).

PS What do you think Australian Crawl refers to.


--- Haristas@... wrote:

> In a message dated 11/4/02 3:59:01 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> whitty@... writes:
>
>
> > Another Aussie.
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
>
> Yeah, Errol Flynn was an Aussie, and what a good role model he was!

.htmlIn a message dated 11/4/02 5:08:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

PS What do you think Australian Crawl refers to.

Crawling to the toilet to vomit after a drinking binge?<.html

Good try Rory...very close!

It actually refers to a "Pub Crawl" where a group of people (usually
guys) get together and go from one pub/night club/drinking hole to
the next, having one drink at each pub. It gets very interesting at
about the 15th pub (our standard beer has twice the alcoholic content
of American brew).

Patrick usually begins mating with our native fauna after about 3
beers.

After about 12 beers, I find Patrick is becoming quite attractive.

Michael

--- Haristas@... wrote:

> In a message dated 11/4/02 5:08:43 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> whitty@... writes:
>
>
> > PS What do you think Australian Crawl refers to.
> >
> >
> >
>
> Crawling to the toilet to vomit after a drinking binge?
>

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:

> OK, I'm now receiving posts from the group. I had to

resubscribe since I couldn't find my ID and password. Damn,
there's a lot of POTA related groups. We're 50-something in the
heirarchy. There's currently 119 people in this group. I will now
repost my responses which couldn't be delivered earlier. They
aren't attached to the posts they are replied to so I will try to stroll
down memory lane. - - - Jeff

> Do you have addresses for the other Apes related groups?

I saw PLANET first on CBS and was hooked immediately....then
saw the Go Ape marathon at a drive-in but for some reason I'm
thinking they only showed 4 out of 5... and for some damn
reason I can't remember which one was left out! then I saw
BENEATH soon after at a kid's matinee during the summer...i
took my little brother....haven't seen any on the screen since then
and i would love to see PLANET on the big screen
again...sigh.....

tim

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> Patrick and Rory shared their experiences watching "Apes" in
a theatre and I said: " I don't have exact dates, but the first 3 "Ape"
movies premiered on TV in the 1973-74 season, probably in the
fall. There was enough time for the ratings to be a smash and for
them to commission the "Apes" series for the 1974-75 season
(without a pilot episode). My first "Apes" experience was
"Escape" on CBS before the series. Don't know if it was the
premiere or the repeat. Never saw any "Ape" movies in a theatre
until the original in 1990 on a double bill with "Beneath" in the
mid '90's and with "Escape" the next year (both times I saw it with
Eric Greene, his book had come out by the
> "Escape" screening and the theatre asked him to introduce the
films). I saw "Planet" 2 more times, at the anniversary party and a
2000 Egyptian Theatre showing with guest Heston. Both times
were the same remastered print with a "Behind the POTA" ad on
the print (the "Fox unlocks the vaults" ad). Growing up I wanted
so bad to see POTA in a theatre, then in the last decade it's
amazing how many times I was able to see it. The prints of
'Beneath" and "Escape" were piss poor. - - - Jeff"
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: james611102
> To: pota@y...
> Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 3:01 PM
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: "I can even draw one!"
>
>
> That's an interesting and creative assumption. But it is an
> assumption. There is really nothing in the film to support it.
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> > Well, if you look at Cornelius' map there's nothing around
the
> green area
> > that Cornelius indicates Ape City is in. I've always looked at
it
> as the
> > Apes live in a small, isolated society surrounded be desert
with
> just a few
> > "green belts." I have also always assumed the total ape
> population to be
> > rather small, perhaps not more than a few hundred
thousands, if
> even that.
> > This would account for the society not progressing very
much in
> two thousand
> > years. I think the apes have spent centuries trying to kill off
a
> larger
> > human population, and that when we get to the events of
PLANET and
> BENEATH
> > that process of human eradication is nearly complete.
> >
> > So, there you go!
> >
> > -- Rory
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.

I think they left out Beneath or Escape...not sure....but I agree I
seem to recall them leaving out one at the Drive-In.

Michael

--- "Tim" <apefan23@...> wrote:

> I saw PLANET first on CBS and was hooked immediately....then
> saw the Go Ape marathon at a drive-in but for some reason I'm
> thinking they only showed 4 out of 5... and for some damn
> reason I can't remember which one was left out! then I saw
> BENEATH soon after at a kid's matinee during the summer...i
> took my little brother....haven't seen any on the screen since then
> and i would love to see PLANET on the big screen
> again...sigh.....
>
> tim
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> > Patrick and Rory shared their experiences watching "Apes" in
> a theatre and I said: " I don't have exact dates, but the first

3 "Ape"

> movies premiered on TV in the 1973-74 season, probably in the
> fall. There was enough time for the ratings to be a smash and for
> them to commission the "Apes" series for the 1974-75 season
> (without a pilot episode). My first "Apes" experience was
> "Escape" on CBS before the series. Don't know if it was the
> premiere or the repeat. Never saw any "Ape" movies in a theatre
> until the original in 1990 on a double bill with "Beneath" in the
> mid '90's and with "Escape" the next year (both times I saw it with
> Eric Greene, his book had come out by the
> > "Escape" screening and the theatre asked him to introduce the
> films). I saw "Planet" 2 more times, at the anniversary party and a
> 2000 Egyptian Theatre showing with guest Heston. Both times
> were the same remastered print with a "Behind the POTA" ad on
> the print (the "Fox unlocks the vaults" ad). Growing up I wanted
> so bad to see POTA in a theatre, then in the last decade it's
> amazing how many times I was able to see it. The prints of
> 'Beneath" and "Escape" were piss poor. - - - Jeff"
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: james611102
> > To: pota@y...
> > Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 3:01 PM
> > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: "I can even draw one!"
> >
> >
> > That's an interesting and creative assumption. But it is an
> > assumption. There is really nothing in the film to support it.
> >
> >
> > --- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> > > Well, if you look at Cornelius' map there's nothing around
> the
> > green area
> > > that Cornelius indicates Ape City is in. I've always looked

at

> it
> > as the
> > > Apes live in a small, isolated society surrounded be desert
> with
> > just a few
> > > "green belts." I have also always assumed the total ape
> > population to be
> > > rather small, perhaps not more than a few hundred
> thousands, if
> > even that.
> > > This would account for the society not progressing very
> much in
> > two thousand
> > > years. I think the apes have spent centuries trying to kill

off

> a
> > larger
> > > human population, and that when we get to the events of
> PLANET and
> > BENEATH
> > > that process of human eradication is nearly complete.
> > >
> > > So, there you go!
> > >
> > > -- Rory
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>
>
>
>

>
>
>

I was lucky enough to see all of them on the big screen the first
time I saw them. They were always family movie outings when I was a
kid. The last time I saw any on the big screen was during the "Go
Ape" marathon in '74. The only problem was they played the films in
chronological order starting with Escape at noon and ending with
Beneath at about 8 or 9 PM.

--- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> I think they left out Beneath or Escape...not sure....but I agree
I
> seem to recall them leaving out one at the Drive-In.
>
> Michael

Interesting choice to start with Escape...

Michael

--- "james611102" <JamesA1102@...> wrote:

> I was lucky enough to see all of them on the big screen the first
> time I saw them. They were always family movie outings when I was a
> kid. The last time I saw any on the big screen was during the "Go
> Ape" marathon in '74. The only problem was they played the films in
> chronological order starting with Escape at noon and ending with
> Beneath at about 8 or 9 PM.
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > I think they left out Beneath or Escape...not sure....but I agree
> I
> > seem to recall them leaving out one at the Drive-In.
> >
> > Michael
>
>
>
> ------------------------ ---------------------

~-->

> Plan to Sell a Home?
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/J2SnNA/y.lEAA/jd3IAA/9_IolB/TM
> --------------------------------------------------------------------

-~->

>
>
>
>

>
>
>

.htmlIn a message dated 11/4/02 6:45:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

I was lucky enough to see all of them on the big screen the first
time I saw them. They were always family movie outings when I was a
kid. The last time I saw any on the big screen was during the "Go
Ape" marathon in '74. The only problem was they played the films in
chronological order starting with Escape at noon and ending with
Beneath at about 8 or 9 PM.

That was strange.  I saw the "Go Ape" marathon in '74 on a Saturday, from like you say Noon until around ten at night, then I went back and saw it again on Sunday.  It was only at the theatre for one week, otherwise I'd have done the same thing the next weekend.  I damned the theatre all to hell for not keeping it another week, but I think the APES were pretty tapped out by that time.

Krueger is lucky he's in L.A. the chances of seeing PLANET in a theatre again are much greater there.

Okay, so who else here wants to tell when they "lost it" to the apes?

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/4/02 7:14:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

Interesting choice to start with Escape...

Michael

At least it doesn't ruin the Statue of Liberty ending for PLANET, like staring with BENEATH would do, but it should start with PLANET.  I remember AMC started their marathon with BATTLE.  I thought that was strange, but I guess they were saving PLANET for a better time period.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlHey for you Terry Gilliam fans in the group, this news item might be of interest, but for me if there was ever a movie that doesn't merit this kind of attention it is this one.

'Fear and Loathing' on DVD

It may have made little impression at the box office, but that hasn't stopped Criterion from giving Terry Gilliam's surreal adaptation of Hunter S. Thompson's Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas the 2-disc deluxe DVD treatment. Already available as a single-disc, movie-only edition from Universal (which will remain on the market), this deluxe edition streets on January 28th and features a new anamorphic widescreen transfer and DTS and Dolby Digital 5.1 surround tracks, plus tons of extras. Goodies include an audio commentary by director Terry Gilliam plus a second track by producer Laila Nabulsi and actors Johnny Depp and Benicio Del Toro, an audio interview with Hunter S. Thompson, the BBC documentary "Fear And Loathing On The Road To Hollywood," deleted scenes with commentary, multiple still galleries with storyboards, production designs and original artwork by famed illustrator Ralph Steadman, a selection of Thompson's correspondence as read by Johnny Depp; rare material on Oscar Zeta Acosta, and trailers.





<.html

.html <.html

Attachments :

.html <.html

In a message dated 11/4/02 7:10:54 PM Central Standard Time,
mystic4ever@... writes:

<< I know, it ain't perfect, but it's the thought that counts and there's not
many POTA suits out there.... Here's me this past Halloween in my home made
Dr. Zauis costume. It went over quite good, even some of the younger kids
recognized who I was supposed to be. My wife was a witch, daughter was the
Lion King...what a trio!

Dan >>

That's smooth, very smooth. I bet you got a lot of candy!

-Joe

Attachments :

.html

This looks like Tim Burton made you up!  YIKES!!! <.html

.htmlHere's some interesting stuff currently on eBay, but it should be saved for a still gallery on a S.E. DVD of BENEATH.


Click here: eBay item 1578658333 (Ends Nov-10-02 19:15:00 PST ) - ORIGINAL PLANET OF THE APES COSTUME DESIGN #1

Click here: eBay item 1578659572 (Ends Nov-10-02 19:15:00 PST ) - ORIGINAL PLANET OF THE APES COSTUME DESIGN #2

Click here: eBay item 1578660238 (Ends Nov-10-02 19:15:00 PST ) - ORIGINAL PLANET OF THE APES COSTUME DESIGN #3

Click here: eBay item 1578660944 (Ends Nov-10-02 19:15:00 PST ) - ORIGINAL PLANET OF THE APES COSTUME DESIGN #4

Click here: eBay item 1578661822 (Ends Nov-10-02 19:15:00 PST ) - ORIGINAL PLANET OF THE APES COSTUME DESIGN #5

Click here: eBay item 1578664717 (Ends Nov-10-02 19:15:00 PST ) - ORIGINAL PLANET OF THE APES COSTUME DESIGN #6

Click here: eBay item 1578665439 (Ends Nov-10-02 19:15:00 PST ) - ORIGINAL PLANET OF THE APES COSTUME DESIGN #7

Click here: eBay item 1578666208 (Ends Nov-10-02 19:15:00 PST ) - ORIGINAL PLANET OF THE APES COSTUME DESIGN #8

Click here: eBay item 1578666912 (Ends Nov-10-02 19:15:00 PST ) - ORIGINAL PLANET OF THE APES COSTUME DESIGN #9<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/4/2002 11:27:12 AM Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

Yes, it is.  And they fenced again in THE ADVENTURES OF ROBIN HOOD.  I can't wait for that to come to DVD.

Yes!  My Dad's favorite movie.  He saw it in the theater first run.<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/4/2002 4:08:48 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

I don't know just how much sarasm is involved, but I imagine if his
repertoire involved excessive drinking, screwing and wealth, he would
be the icon of many of our young lads.

People didn't say IN LIKE FLYNN for nothing.

<.html

.html

...also saw all of them on TV.  I was just happy to see them, I never discriminated
between the screens!

Yeah, but there was nothing like sitting in the dark with your popcorn and hearing everyone cheer when Chuck says his Damn Dirty Ape line, eh?

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/4/2002 4:23:51 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

It gets very interesting at about the 15th pub (our standard beer has twice the alcoholic content of American brew).

What are you saying Mick?  You mean the Fosters oil cans for export are brewed weak?

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/4/2002 5:26:10 PM Central Standard Time, apefan23@... writes:

I saw PLANET first on CBS and was hooked immediately....then
saw the Go Ape  marathon at a drive-in but for some reason I'm
thinking they only showed 4 out of 5...

I'm not sure but the Go Ape marathon may have been pre- Battle.

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 9:21 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] First Times

In a message dated 11/4/02 11:25:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

  How do you know "Escape" wasn't repeated, sir? Do you have a date of broadcast? That's where it all began. - - - Jeff

I know because I remember those days quite well.  ESCAPE had its broadcast TV premiere on the CBS network on Friday, November 16, 1973.  CBS didn't broadcast it again until September 6, 1977 on their late movie.  I know these things because I wrote them down at the time and still have my notes.

PLANET was first broadcast on September 14, 1973, then repeated by CBS on April 25, 1975, then shown for the third and last time on CBS on August 27, 1976.

BENEATH premiered on CBS on October 26, 1973, and repeated on April 16, 1976 (cut to only 72 minutes)

CONQUEST was first shown on CBS on November 14, 1974, and repeated on September 1, 1976.

BATTLE was first shown on CBS on January 17, 1975 (cut to 72 min.), and was repeated on June 17, 1977 (cut to 72 min.)

And that's the history of the APES movies on CBS.  Write all this down if it's important to you!

-- Rory
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

Whoa, James and Rory's info conflicts! This may be the first time they've
ever disagreed. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 10:39 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: First Times


> It was first broadcast on November 14, 1973 at 9PM (EST). And it
> wasn't repeated for a long time after the show was canceled.
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> > How do you know "Escape" wasn't repeated, sir? Do you have a date
> of broadcast? That's where it all began. - - - Jeff
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Actually Rory was right on this one. Guess there's a first time for
everything.

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> Whoa, James and Rory's info conflicts! This may be the first
time they've
> ever disagreed. - - - Jeff

Absolutely.

Even though they come in cans the size of a truck, you are getting
half the alcohol.

Michael

--- LordTZer0@... wrote:

> In a message dated 11/4/2002 4:23:51 PM Central Standard Time,
> whitty@... writes:
>
> > It gets very interesting at about the 15th pub (our standard beer

has twice

> > the alcoholic content of American brew).
>
> What are you saying Mick? You mean the Fosters oil cans for export

are

> brewed weak?
>

Attachments :

.htmlIn a message dated 11/4/02 9:07:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

I'm not sure but the Go Ape marathon may have been pre- Battle.

When BATTLE was released some theatres immediately showed it with one or more of the other APES movies, but the offical "Go Ape" release was in the summer of '74.  There was also a re-issue of PLANET and BENEATH in the late summer of '71.
<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/4/02 10:11:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

  Wow, thanks Rory. So I guess Nov. 16 will be my 29th anniversary as an "Ape" fan.

You are welcome, O High and Mighty Grand Potentate of Potadom!<.html

"Foster's...Australian for beer, mate!" That's an ad we have here in the
US. Is that true, or false advertising? - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: <whitty@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 3:22 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Aus Crawl (OT)


> Good try Rory...very close!
>
> It actually refers to a "Pub Crawl" where a group of people (usually
> guys) get together and go from one pub/night club/drinking hole to
> the next, having one drink at each pub. It gets very interesting at
> about the 15th pub (our standard beer has twice the alcoholic content
> of American brew).
>
> Patrick usually begins mating with our native fauna after about 3
> beers.
>
> After about 12 beers, I find Patrick is becoming quite attractive.
>
> Michael
>
> --- Haristas@... wrote:
> > In a message dated 11/4/02 5:08:43 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > whitty@... writes:
> >
> >
> > > PS What do you think Australian Crawl refers to.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Crawling to the toilet to vomit after a drinking binge?
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Just go to the yahoo groups home page and type in Planet of the Apes"
under search. Maybe I will post some of the groups but there's a ton of
them. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim" <apefan23@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 3:15 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Crisis Averted


> --- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> > OK, I'm now receiving posts from the group. I had to
> resubscribe since I couldn't find my ID and password. Damn,
> there's a lot of POTA related groups. We're 50-something in the
> heirarchy. There's currently 119 people in this group. I will now
> repost my responses which couldn't be delivered earlier. They
> aren't attached to the posts they are replied to so I will try to stroll
> down memory lane. - - - Jeff
>
>
> > Do you have addresses for the other Apes related groups?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I think "Battle" wasn't in it, though it was advertised in the posters.
The head of Mego was dragged to "Go Ape" by his son and said he saw the
first 4. By the time he finished he'd decided POTA would make great toys and
the rest is history. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim" <apefan23@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 3:24 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: First Times


> I saw PLANET first on CBS and was hooked immediately....then
> saw the Go Ape marathon at a drive-in but for some reason I'm
> thinking they only showed 4 out of 5... and for some damn
> reason I can't remember which one was left out! then I saw
> BENEATH soon after at a kid's matinee during the summer...i
> took my little brother....haven't seen any on the screen since then
> and i would love to see PLANET on the big screen
> again...sigh.....
>
> tim
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> > Patrick and Rory shared their experiences watching "Apes" in
> a theatre and I said: " I don't have exact dates, but the first 3 "Ape"
> movies premiered on TV in the 1973-74 season, probably in the
> fall. There was enough time for the ratings to be a smash and for
> them to commission the "Apes" series for the 1974-75 season
> (without a pilot episode). My first "Apes" experience was
> "Escape" on CBS before the series. Don't know if it was the
> premiere or the repeat. Never saw any "Ape" movies in a theatre
> until the original in 1990 on a double bill with "Beneath" in the
> mid '90's and with "Escape" the next year (both times I saw it with
> Eric Greene, his book had come out by the
> > "Escape" screening and the theatre asked him to introduce the
> films). I saw "Planet" 2 more times, at the anniversary party and a
> 2000 Egyptian Theatre showing with guest Heston. Both times
> were the same remastered print with a "Behind the POTA" ad on
> the print (the "Fox unlocks the vaults" ad). Growing up I wanted
> so bad to see POTA in a theatre, then in the last decade it's
> amazing how many times I was able to see it. The prints of
> 'Beneath" and "Escape" were piss poor. - - - Jeff"
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: james611102
> > To: pota@y...
> > Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 3:01 PM
> > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: "I can even draw one!"
> >
> >
> > That's an interesting and creative assumption. But it is an
> > assumption. There is really nothing in the film to support it.
> >
> >
> > --- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> > > Well, if you look at Cornelius' map there's nothing around
> the
> > green area
> > > that Cornelius indicates Ape City is in. I've always looked at
> it
> > as the
> > > Apes live in a small, isolated society surrounded be desert
> with
> > just a few
> > > "green belts." I have also always assumed the total ape
> > population to be
> > > rather small, perhaps not more than a few hundred
> thousands, if
> > even that.
> > > This would account for the society not progressing very
> much in
> > two thousand
> > > years. I think the apes have spent centuries trying to kill off
> a
> > larger
> > > human population, and that when we get to the events of
> PLANET and
> > BENEATH
> > > that process of human eradication is nearly complete.
> > >
> > > So, there you go!
> > >
> > > -- Rory
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 4:56 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: First Times

In a message dated 11/4/02 7:14:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

Interesting choice to start with Escape...

Michael

At least it doesn't ruin the Statue of Liberty ending for PLANET, like staring with BENEATH would do, but it should start with PLANET.  I remember AMC started their marathon with BATTLE.  I thought that was strange, but I guess they were saving PLANET for a better time period.

-- Rory
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 5:02 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] (OT) Fear the Loathing

Hey for you Terry Gilliam fans in the group, this news item might be of interest, but for me if there was ever a movie that doesn't merit this kind of attention it is this one.

'Fear and Loathing' on DVD

It may have made little impression at the box office, but that hasn't stopped Criterion from giving Terry Gilliam's surreal adaptation of Hunter S. Thompson's Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas the 2-disc deluxe DVD treatment. Already available as a single-disc, movie-only edition from Universal (which will remain on the market), this deluxe edition streets on January 28th and features a new anamorphic widescreen transfer and DTS and Dolby Digital 5.1 surround tracks, plus tons of extras. Goodies include an audio commentary by director Terry Gilliam plus a second track by producer Laila Nabulsi and actors Johnny Depp and Benicio Del Toro, an audio interview with Hunter S. Thompson, the BBC documentary "Fear And Loathing On The Road To Hollywood," deleted scenes with commentary, multiple still galleries with storyboards, production designs and original artwork by famed illustrator Ralph Steadman, a selection of Thompson's correspondence as read by Johnny Depp; rare material on Oscar Zeta Acosta, and trailers.






Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

Tis a crock Jeff.

There is no "Australian" for anything! We all speak English.

Unless you count Aboriginal dialect and there are quite a few
different versions of that, none of which include "Fosters".

There are of course some unique slang names for things, again Fosters
is not amongst them.

Fosters is just a brand name.

Michael

--- <veetus@...> wrote:

> "Foster's...Australian for beer, mate!" That's an ad we have here

in the

> US. Is that true, or false advertising? - - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <whitty@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 3:22 PM
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Aus Crawl (OT)
>
>
> > Good try Rory...very close!
> >
> > It actually refers to a "Pub Crawl" where a group of people

(usually

> > guys) get together and go from one pub/night club/drinking hole to
> > the next, having one drink at each pub. It gets very interesting

at

> > about the 15th pub (our standard beer has twice the alcoholic

content

> > of American brew).
> >
> > Patrick usually begins mating with our native fauna after about 3
> > beers.
> >
> > After about 12 beers, I find Patrick is becoming quite attractive.
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > --- Haristas@... wrote:
> > > In a message dated 11/4/02 5:08:43 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > > whitty@... writes:
> > >
> > >
> > > > PS What do you think Australian Crawl refers to.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Crawling to the toilet to vomit after a drinking binge?
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------ ---------------------

~-->

> Plan to Sell a Home?
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/J2SnNA/y.lEAA/jd3IAA/9_IolB/TM
> --------------------------------------------------------------------

-~->

>
>
>
>

>
>
>

.htmlIn a message dated 11/4/02 11:34:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

  Gilliam has a good relationship with the Criterion people. I was at DVD Planet last weekend and noticed his films like "Brazil" on Criterion. In a radio interview about 5 years ago the head of Criterion said POTA was on their "wish list" for years but Fox wouldn't let 'em have it. - - - Jeff

Yeah, I wrote to Criterion to do an APES Special Edition way back when and they told me Fox didn't license any of their titles.  The Bastards!

-- Rory<.html

.htmlHey Mike,

Have you ever been deep into the Australian outback and would a desert there be a good place to film a POTA movie?

-- Rory<.html

Attachments :

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 7:26 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: First Times

In a message dated 11/4/02 9:07:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

I'm not sure but the Go Ape marathon may have been pre- Battle.

When BATTLE was released some theatres immediately showed it with one or more of the other APES movies, but the offical "Go Ape" release was in the summer of '74.  There was also a re-issue of PLANET and BENEATH in the late summer of '71.

<.html

I've been had! Thanks for clearing that up, sir.- - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: <whitty@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 9:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Aus Crawl (OT)


> Tis a crock Jeff.
>
> There is no "Australian" for anything! We all speak English.
>
> Unless you count Aboriginal dialect and there are quite a few
> different versions of that, none of which include "Fosters".
>
> There are of course some unique slang names for things, again Fosters
> is not amongst them.
>
> Fosters is just a brand name.
>
> Michael
>
> --- <veetus@...> wrote:
> > "Foster's...Australian for beer, mate!" That's an ad we have here
> in the
> > US. Is that true, or false advertising? - - - Jeff
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <whitty@...>
> > To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 3:22 PM
> > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Aus Crawl (OT)
> >
> >
> > > Good try Rory...very close!
> > >
> > > It actually refers to a "Pub Crawl" where a group of people
> (usually
> > > guys) get together and go from one pub/night club/drinking hole to
> > > the next, having one drink at each pub. It gets very interesting
> at
> > > about the 15th pub (our standard beer has twice the alcoholic
> content
> > > of American brew).
> > >
> > > Patrick usually begins mating with our native fauna after about 3
> > > beers.
> > >
> > > After about 12 beers, I find Patrick is becoming quite attractive.
> > >
> > > Michael
> > >
> > > --- Haristas@... wrote:
> > > > In a message dated 11/4/02 5:08:43 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > > > whitty@... writes:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > PS What do you think Australian Crawl refers to.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Crawling to the toilet to vomit after a drinking binge?
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ ---------------------
> ~-->
> > Plan to Sell a Home?
> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/J2SnNA/y.lEAA/jd3IAA/9_IolB/TM
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> -~->
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I still think Russell Crowe would be a good Taylor (I am gaining a
great deal of respect for him as an actor), but not Nicole Kidman for
Nova!

And don't let Baz Lurhman direct - you'd end up with a musical
something like the Simpsons did!

Michael

--- Haristas@... wrote:

> Hey Mike,
>
> Have you ever been deep into the Australian outback and would a

desert there

> be a good place to film a POTA movie?
>
> -- Rory
>

I'm sure they don't mean it literally, and I wouldn't be surprised if
we saw ads saying "Budweiser..that's American for beer!".

The nicest beer here now is "Cold Filtered" (don't ask - I am not too
sure of the technicalities). Apparently they put it through a
charcoal filter when it is cold versus when it is warm. You really
should visit and have a beer.

Michael

--- <veetus@...> wrote:

> I've been had! Thanks for clearing that up, sir.- - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <whitty@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 9:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Aus Crawl (OT)
>
>
> > Tis a crock Jeff.
> >
> > There is no "Australian" for anything! We all speak English.
> >
> > Unless you count Aboriginal dialect and there are quite a few
> > different versions of that, none of which include "Fosters".
> >
> > There are of course some unique slang names for things, again

Fosters

> > is not amongst them.
> >
> > Fosters is just a brand name.
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > --- <veetus@...> wrote:
> > > "Foster's...Australian for beer, mate!" That's an ad we have

here

> > in the
> > > US. Is that true, or false advertising? - - - Jeff
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <whitty@...>
> > > To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 3:22 PM
> > > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Aus Crawl (OT)
> > >
> > >
> > > > Good try Rory...very close!
> > > >
> > > > It actually refers to a "Pub Crawl" where a group of people
> > (usually
> > > > guys) get together and go from one pub/night club/drinking

hole to

> > > > the next, having one drink at each pub. It gets very

interesting

> > at
> > > > about the 15th pub (our standard beer has twice the alcoholic
> > content
> > > > of American brew).
> > > >
> > > > Patrick usually begins mating with our native fauna after

about 3

> > > > beers.
> > > >
> > > > After about 12 beers, I find Patrick is becoming quite

attractive.

> > > >
> > > > Michael
> > > >
> > > > --- Haristas@... wrote:
> > > > > In a message dated 11/4/02 5:08:43 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > > > > whitty@... writes:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > PS What do you think Australian Crawl refers to.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Crawling to the toilet to vomit after a drinking binge?
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------ -----------------

----

> > ~-->
> > > Plan to Sell a Home?
> > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/J2SnNA/y.lEAA/jd3IAA/9_IolB/TM
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------

----

> > -~->
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

>
>
>

Baz is doing "Alexander the Great" (Oliver Stone is trying to do one too).
That deals with the time period that seemed to serve as the inspiration for
the POTA societies. Baz says it'll be a historical epic and have a different
style than his musicals. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: <whitty@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2002 9:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Aus Stars


> I still think Russell Crowe would be a good Taylor (I am gaining a
> great deal of respect for him as an actor), but not Nicole Kidman for
> Nova!
>
> And don't let Baz Lurhman direct - you'd end up with a musical
> something like the Simpsons did!
>
> Michael
>
> --- Haristas@... wrote:
> > Hey Mike,
> >
> > Have you ever been deep into the Australian outback and would a
> desert there
> > be a good place to film a POTA movie?
> >
> > -- Rory
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.htmlIn a message dated 11/4/2002 9:09:55 PM Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

During WWII Ho Chi Minh worked for the US in the equivalent of the CIA. His code name was Lucius. Later we fought against him in the Vietnam War, which led to the cultural upheaval that led to that saying, "Never trust anyone over 30" that Lucius says.

Coincidence?  Or something more?  You be the judge my friend!<.html

.html
Absolutely.

Even though they come in cans the size of a truck, you are getting
half the alcohol.

Michael

That just totally blows my concept of import beer.  I may as well stick to Budwiser then.  It's not worth the extra dinero.<.html

.html

You really should visit and have a beer.

I guess I should.  Cold Filtered, eh?  Miller's been doing that for years.  Nothing new on this side of the pond.  Right now 1959s The Alligator People with Lon Chaney jr., is on AMC.  Looks like some POTA alum were on the makeup, Ben Nye and Dick Smith.

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 2:20 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Aus Crawl (OT)

Absolutely.

Even though they come in cans the size of a truck, you are getting
half the alcohol.

Michael

That just totally blows my concept of import beer.  I may as well stick to Budwiser then.  It's not worth the extra dinero.

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: veetus@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 6:55 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Aus Crawl (OT)

  It's like anything else. You're paying for a label. Whether it's Foster's or POTA. - - - Jeff

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 2:20 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Aus Crawl (OT)

Absolutely.

Even though they come in cans the size of a truck, you are getting
half the alcohol.

Michael

That just totally blows my concept of import beer.  I may as well stick to Budwiser then.  It's not worth the extra dinero.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

<.html

The whole thing sounds like an internet rumor to me. Knowing
Connery's consistant efforts to distance himself from his days as
Bond as well as his outright hatered for the Broccoli family; I doubt
any cameo was ever filmed.

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> www.comingsoon.net says that Sean Connery filmed a cameo for
the new James Bond flick as Bond's father. That's cool (Connery was
the original Bond, of course, back in the day when POTA was also a
successful franchise). But they also report that the filmmakers are
considering cutting Connery out because they realized Bond was an
orphan in the books. You'd think after all these years of Bond flicks
under the same owners that they'd know that. Should it stay or should
it go? If it stays there could be trouble, but if it leaves it might
be double. - - Jeff
>

Cold filtering has done Miller a lot of good. They've gone from #2 to
#3 in the past few years.

--- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> I guess I should. Cold Filtered, eh? Miller's been doing that for
years.
> Nothing new on this side of the pond. Right now 1959s The
Alligator People
> with Lon Chaney jr., is on AMC. Looks like some POTA alum were on
the
> makeup, Ben Nye and Dick Smith.

--- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:

> OK Patrick
>
> All insults aside, I think you are a little out of your league with

your comments on religion.

>
> You seem to be confusing belief in god with acceptance/coveting of

all the bad things that have been done in the name of god.

>
> Your comments only highlight your ignorance.
>
> Believing in a god simply means a belief that we have been created,

it does not mean one condones the Spanish Inquisition.

>
> Michael

*** Religion, as portrayed in the FICTIONAL "POTA universe", is a
tool of repression, a false belief system utilized by the Powers-that-
be to control the Masses. In the REAL universe, that pretty much sums
up what Religion truly is, in my nontheistic view.

If "believing in a god" was just that--a BELIEF--nobody would ever
have a problem with ANYBODY's differing religious beliefs. It would
be as "harmless" as believing in Leprechauns, or believing that the
lost continent of Atlantis not only existed but also enjoyed the use
of hovercars & meals-in-a-pill. A "belief", generally, is harmless to
others around the Believer.
But the danger of Religion, Mike, is that for the Believer BELIEF
ISN'T ENOUGH. Those very beliefs require the Follower of whatever
Ideology to ACT on those beliefs... usually in a manner which
violates the rights of others who don't share those beliefs. THAT is
how Religion is portrayed in the POTA saga--not as a harmless set of
beliefs, but as a REPRESSIVE and DANGEROUS springboard for action.
Action which ultimately leads to the entire planet being destroyed.

Is there a "god" in the fictional POTA universe, as there is in
the "Lord of the Rings" universe? Absolutely NOT. At the end of
BENEATH, the planet Earth "is now dead". Not "mostly dead"...
not "partially still breathing"... it's DEAD. Would a "god" ("...if
there IS a god...") sit idly by and allow His precious creation--the
planet and all those whom He had created in His image--to be
completely annihilated? Not even the book of "Revelation" at its
worst depicts an End as horrific as that. Rather, in SOME way,
the "god" causes the Righteous to inherit the Earth--a "new Earth"
with a "new Jerusalem", etc. In the POTA saga, Religion leads to War,
which leads to the Total Destruction of the Earth. In the real world,
Religion leads to War... which might very well lead to the Earth
being destroyed (at least, the destruction of enough of us humans to
make it important!). POTA tells it, satirically, like it IS. And
there ain't no "God" to put Humpty Dumpty back together again after
Taylor triggers the "Alpha Omega" Bomb.

Religious belief began, in all probability, with the inability of
Cavemen to understand natural phenomena such as Lightning & Thunder,
Darkness, Comets, Earthquakes, disease epidemics, etc. That's why
Zeus was thought of as a "thunder god" (like Thor, and a score of
other cultures' "thunder gods"). The Gods were mythic inventions of
the human mind, pre-scientific ways of coming to grips with phenomena
for which they had no logical explanation--because their ways of
thinking were based not on Logic, but on Fear (of Death, etc.) and
Desire (for Food, for Sex/Love, for Progeny, etc.).

Science is based on the rules of Logic, on the application of the
Scientific Method. It has nothing to do with mere "belief". Thus,
any "god"-concept is bound to be unscientific, if it has nothing
going for it other than just "belief". If it could be tested in some
way, and if such experimentation pointed to the presence of some
noncorporeal, omniscient, omnipotent yet invisible Personality out
there somewhere/everywhere... then Theism would be a valid,
scientific belief.

In the POTA universe, there is no "god" to intervene and prevent
Doomsday from killing every living thing on the Earth (allowing only
the "Ape-onauts" to escape back through Time to 1973). In the real
universe, there was no "god" to save the innocent lives that were
mercilessly taken on "9/11", despite the fact that THE ENTIRE WORLD
was watching the event IN REAL TIME, and--undoubtedly--every Believer
in a loving God was praying for that God to save those doomed people
in the twin towers... and if BILLIONS of prayers aren't enough to get
God off his fat ass to intervene, then that is "proof" enough to
skeptics like me that the "power of prayer" is a sad joke--and that
the "loving God" doesn't exist to answer such prayers in the first
place.
How many little kids, raised to believe in God, asked "Why didn't God
save those people?" after seeing the tragic events of that day
unfold? What kind of answers were rattled off?

"The Lord works in mysterious ways..."
"It was 'their time' and God was calling them to Himself..."
"God wanted them in Heaven with Him & His angels..."

And the little children who were in the hijacked planes... did God
want them to die, too? Had those toddlers spent enough Time living
their lives, prior to God "calling them to Himself"?
I remember watching Billy Graham at that prayerfest just
following "9/11", with all the former Presidents (sans Reagan)
attending, and Billy asked all those questions. "Why did God allow
this to happen?" In his own typical evangelical way, he tried to give
an answer that gave comfort to those who lost loved ones, but in my
mind it failed miserably. The cause of "9/11" was NOT the
irreligiousness of America (as Falwell & Robertson alleged), which
led God to empower Al-Qaeda to smite us: the cause of "9/11" is the
tendency of people who BELIEVE in God to ACT on that belief in a
manner which is intolerant and homicidal. That is the danger of mere
Belief, that it leads to murderous Actions which are "justified" by a
set of Dogmas & Doctrines written by Human (or Ape) hand under the
lying pretense of having been "inspired by God". That is the root of
the WTC/Pentagon attacks. That is the root of the recent attack in
Indonesia which resulted in the deaths of how many of your fellow
Aussies, Mike? It seems that the religion-addicted fanatics who
perpetrate such crimes do not rely on their "god" to smite His
enemies... they see themselves as the Instruments of their God,
doing "His work" for him, acting as "His hand".

Patrick

--- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:

> In a message dated 11/3/2002 10:05:40 AM Central Standard Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
> > since Uranus is tilted almost 90 degrees off-kilter
>
> There's a joke there somewhere, but I'm not going to touch it.
>
> That aside, one last question.
> Are galaxies then on the same axis, apart from any Uranal

aberrations.

*** Answer: No. Since we, with Earth-based telescopes, see all sorts
of galaxies from all sorts of different vantage points (some "edge
on", some at an angle--like the Andromeda Galaxy, some "face on" with
the entire pinwheel structure visible), then, ergo, galaxies aren't
oriented with the same axial inclination. Similarly, the stars in the
Milky Way aren't all aligned the same, since (for example) binary
systems are known to be at all sorts of inclinations (i.e. some "edge
on", or "face on", or at an angle). Since solar systems are formed as
a result of a nearby supernova compressing a bunch of interstellar
dust, then it goes to show that that spherically-expanding waveblast
from the supernova would compress neighboring nebulae in ALL
directions.

Patrick

.htmlIn a message dated 11/5/02 10:07:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

     www.comingsoon.net

says that Sean Connery filmed a cameo for the new James Bond flick as Bond's father. That's cool (Connery was the original Bond, of course, back in the day when POTA was also a successful franchise). But they also report that the filmmakers are considering cutting Connery out because they realized Bond was an orphan in the books. You'd think after all these years of Bond flicks under the same owners that they'd know that. Should it stay or should it go? If it stays there could be trouble, but if it leaves it might be double. - - Jeff

I can't believe they got Connery to do it in the first place.  It sounds like a stupid cameo though, maybe they should leave it out.  Put it as an extra on the DVD, that's where movies live these days anyway.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/5/02 10:24:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

The whole thing sounds like an internet rumor to me. Knowing
Connery's consistant efforts to distance himself from his days as
Bond as well as his outright hatered for the Broccoli family; I doubt
any cameo was ever filmed.

This could be true too.  The studios today do all sorts of stupid thing to get publicity.

-- Rory<.html

*** How about when Zaius asks Taylor "Is there another jungle beyond
the Forbidden Zone?"? It seems to me that since the Zone
is "Forbidden" and no ape is allowed to travel there (Cornelius
having "exceeded his orders" and illegally gone there), then this
site must be isolated to a certain degree. And think of the fact that
not only old "New York City" (and the surrounding developed areas)
was nuked, but (presumably) all the other major cities of America
were ALSO nuked. What about Philadelphia? Newark? Albany?
Poughkeepsie? Scranton? What about all the military bases, which
would obviously be targeted, in addition to population centers? It
seems to me that the desertification of most of America would be a
given. The Ape society in the "green areas" on Cornelius' map is
comprised of THOUSANDS, undergoing a population explosion... at
least, according to the script for BENEATH (page 17-A of "PLANET OF
THE APES REVISITED" has a scene where Zaius and Ursus are yakking):

--------

Z: General Ursus, I can only pray that this is wise.

U: Why should you doubt it, Minister?

Z: I think you've been... precipitate.

U: Or merely decisive?

Z: Decisions come from weighing evidence. It is through evidence that
a scientist arrives at the truth.

U: And a politician?

Z (smiling): At expediency.

U: Then let us discuss what is evident and what is expedient. What is
evident is that we face a population explosion. What is expedient is--

Z: --that we should control it.

U: And be outnumbered by our enemies? I look to the day when not
thousands but millions will march under the Ape banner.

---------

Granted, this dialogue didn't make it into the "final cut" of the
film, but the look of Ape City doesn't suggest a population of more
than a few thousand. In Ursus' speech, he makes reference to "new,
improved feeding grounds, and these grounds we can obtain in the once-
forbidden Zone", which lends credence to the NEED FOR FOOD which
accompanies a population explosion.
If Ursus thinks "new... feeding grounds" can be obtained by invading
their "eastern desert", rather than looking on the other sides of the
territory depicted on the Map, then that suggests that there are
OTHER deserts surrounding them, too... and that Ursus' reason for
invading in the particular direction he leads his army is ALSO to
avenge himself on Whomever dwells in the Zone, those who caused 11 of
his 12 scouts to disappear mysteriously and inflict "unsimian
torture" on the 12th scout whose "mind is gone... shattered". That
was "the incident" (like the Gulf of Tonkin event) which Ursus
capitalizes on. So, rather than try to cultivate the OTHER
surrounding deserts, Ursus leads his war machine against the one on
the other side of that dashed line on Cornelius' map.
So, there IS something in the film to support the presence of other
surrounding desert areas, even though they may be "off the map". So
why didn't Cornelius draw a larger-area map with those other deserts
visible? Simple: his archaeological interest was in the territory he
illegally investigated--the "Dead Lake" area, the Ocean's coast
(where he found the Cave), etc.
Makes sense to me.

Patrick

--- In pota@y..., "james611102" <JamesA1102@a...> wrote:
> That's an interesting and creative assumption. But it is an
> assumption. There is really nothing in the film to support it.
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> > Well, if you look at Cornelius' map there's nothing around the
green area that Cornelius indicates Ape City is in. I've always
looked at it as the Apes live in a small, isolated society surrounded
be desert with just a few "green belts." I have also always assumed
the total ape population to be rather small, perhaps not more than a
few hundred thousands, if even that.
> > This would account for the society not progressing very much in
two thousand years. I think the apes have spent centuries trying to
kill off a larger human population, and that when we get to the
events of PLANET and BENEATH that process of human eradication is
nearly complete.
> >
> > So, there you go!
> >
> > -- Rory

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:

> A big deal was made about a certain person not knowing the

computerese for SN, so : "Since we're eating a little humble pie
here...what does LOL mean? - - - Patrick Michael Tilton"

*** I think it means "Laugh Out Loud". But I don't own a "Merriam
Webster Dictionary of Computer-Geek English", so I wouldn't stake my
life on it.

Patrick

P.S. As long as we're wondering about the "meanings" of the various
Net-names ("SNs"), what the heck does "veetus" stand for? I know that
Rory's "Haristas" comes from Boulle's book, but I don't recall
any "Veetus" character (unless it's from the comic books which came
out a decade ago--I confess, I haven't read them over & over again,
like I did the Marvel stuff, which I grew up on). What, Jeff,
does "veetus" mean? I'd make up a nasty acronym on it, like I did
the "mlc" part of "mlccougar", but you're much nicer to me than he
is, so I'm being "my better self"!

I don't know. Connery really hates the Broccolis. Sounds like aint it
cool reported something bogus and are now trying to cover their
tracks.

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> This could be true too. The studios today do all sorts of stupid
thing to
> get publicity.
>
> -- Rory

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 11/4/02 5:08:43 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> whitty@c... writes:
>
>
> > PS What do you think Australian Crawl refers to.
> >
> Crawling to the toilet to vomit after a drinking binge?

*** What Richard Gere's gerbil has to do to "see the light" again?

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:

> Here's some interesting stuff currently on eBay, but it should be

saved for a still gallery on a S.E. DVD of BENEATH.

*** Interesting. I wonder if the color-coded sunglasses/goggles in #4
are meant to differentiate their rank, in some way, as the actual
costumes' colored appurtenances seemed to do. Remember how Mendez's
outfit had purple, the Fat Man had red, etc.? Why would the mutants
in the #4 costume design need different "filter" colors for their eye-
pieces?

Patrick

> <A HREF="http://cgi.aol.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?

ViewItem&item=1578658333">Click here: eBay item 1578658333 (Ends Nov-
10-02 19:15:00 PST ) - ORIGINAL

> PLANET OF THE APES COSTUME DESIGN #1</A>
>
> <A HREF="http://cgi.aol.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?

ViewItem&item=1578659572">Click here: eBay item 1578659572 (Ends Nov-
10-02 19:15:00 PST ) - ORIGINAL

> PLANET OF THE APES COSTUME DESIGN #2</A>
>
> <A HREF="http://cgi.aol.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?

ViewItem&item=1578660238">Click here: eBay item 1578660238 (Ends Nov-
10-02 19:15:00 PST ) - ORIGINAL

> PLANET OF THE APES COSTUME DESIGN #3</A>
>
> <A HREF="http://cgi.aol.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?

ViewItem&item=1578660944">Click here: eBay item 1578660944 (Ends Nov-
10-02 19:15:00 PST ) - ORIGINAL

> PLANET OF THE APES COSTUME DESIGN #4</A>
>
> <A HREF="http://cgi.aol.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?

ViewItem&item=1578661822">Click here: eBay item 1578661822 (Ends Nov-
10-02 19:15:00 PST ) - ORIGINAL

> PLANET OF THE APES COSTUME DESIGN #5</A>
>
> <A HREF="http://cgi.aol.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?

ViewItem&item=1578664717">Click here: eBay item 1578664717 (Ends Nov-
10-02 19:15:00 PST ) - ORIGINAL

> PLANET OF THE APES COSTUME DESIGN #6</A>
>
> <A HREF="http://cgi.aol.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?

ViewItem&item=1578665439">Click here: eBay item 1578665439 (Ends Nov-
10-02 19:15:00 PST ) - ORIGINAL

> PLANET OF THE APES COSTUME DESIGN #7</A>
>
> <A HREF="http://cgi.aol.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?

ViewItem&item=1578666208">Click here: eBay item 1578666208 (Ends Nov-
10-02 19:15:00 PST ) - ORIGINAL

> PLANET OF THE APES COSTUME DESIGN #8</A>
>
> <A HREF="http://cgi.aol.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?

ViewItem&item=1578666912">Click here: eBay item 1578666912 (Ends Nov-
10-02 19:15:00 PST ) - ORIGINAL

> PLANET OF THE APES COSTUME DESIGN #9</A>

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 11/5/02 10:07:00 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> veetus@e... writes:
>
>
> ><A HREF="http://www.comingsoon.net/">www.comingsoon.net</A> says

that Sean Connery filmed a cameo for the new James Bond flick as
Bond's father. That's cool (Connery was the original Bond, of course,
back in the day when POTA was also a successful franchise). But they
also report that the filmmakers are considering cutting Connery out
because they realized Bond was an orphan in the books. You'd think
after all these years of Bond flicks under the same owners that
they'd know that. Should it stay or should it go? If it stays there
could be trouble, but if it leaves it might be double. - - Jeff

> >
> I can't believe they got Connery to do it in the first place. It

sounds like a stupid cameo though, maybe they should leave it out.
Put it as an extra on the DVD, that's where movies live these days
anyway.

>
> -- Rory

*** If UA isn't willing to shell out the dough to get John Barry to
do their musical score, then I doubt if they'd cough up the cash it'd
take to get Connery to appear in a Bond film. The one role I think
would be neat to see him in, though, would be as the new "M"--a far
more imposing presence than Judi Densch (as good an actress as she
is).

Patrick

UA doesn't produce the Bond films anymore, MGM does. And money has
nothing to do with why John Barry doesn't do the scores anymore. He
scored 10 of the films and simply got tired of them. A been there
done that sort of thing.

--- In pota@y..., "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@y...>
wrote:

>>
> *** If UA isn't willing to shell out the dough to get John Barry to
> do their musical score, then I doubt if they'd cough up the cash

it'd

> take to get Connery to appear in a Bond film. The one role I think
> would be neat to see him in, though, would be as the new "M"--a far
> more imposing presence than Judi Densch (as good an actress as she
> is).
>
> Patrick

Hey Gang, Long time no smell! Been a busy year, but things are quiet
now so I can join in the fun once more.

Looking through some old postings here I noticed a convo on the apes
weapons. Not sure if this had been corrected or not yet, but I'll add
my 2 cents worth.

Yes, the "hero" ape carbines were surplus WWII or Korean issue semi-
auto M-1 Carbines. The Gorilla sub-machine gun, however, was not an M3
Greasegun (they don't fit, trust me), but rather the more streamlined
Danish Madsen sub-machine gun. You can see these subs (without the ape
stocks) used in a few classic 60's episodes of Man from Uncle, Voyage
to the Bottom of the Sea, and Star Trek. I seem to remember, and
forgive me for not knowing the title and date of it's first airing (no
Trekki here), an episode where Kirk and the gang beamed down to a
planet and were held in a jail cell where white helmeted guards stood
watch over them with the Danish Madsen sub-machine guns.(There's
blooper reels of the guards rushing into the room and falling down
too.) Quite possibly the same SMGs used in Beneath, because Stembridge
Arms supplied weapons to just about everything going on in Hollywood
back in those days. If I can figure out how to post a foto with this
message, I'll do it. If not, my bad.

Take care. Hope everyone had a fun and safe Halloween.

Brian Penikas
APEMANIA.COM

.htmlIn a message dated 11/5/02 11:29:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

So, there IS something in the film to support the presence of other
surrounding desert areas, even though they may be "off the map". So
why didn't Cornelius draw a larger-area map with those other deserts
visible? Simple: his archaeological interest was in the territory he
illegally investigated--the "Dead Lake" area, the Ocean's coast
(where he found the Cave), etc.
Makes sense to me.

Patrick

Makes sense to me, especially if you agree with me that in PLANET the "Green Belts" are what's still livable areas in what was the Blue Ridge Mountains.  From the DC area on up it was a megalopolis that got completely nuked, as did the area I live in, Florida, and as did New Orleans, the big cities of the Midwest, and then the Pacific coast.  Big cities in Canada got it too.  So in 3978 there are just little pockets of jungle, because the climate has become more tropical, surrounded by desert because two thousand years of erosion of irradiated soil has left the landscape barren.

Makes sense to me.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/5/02 11:39:27 AM Eastern Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

P.S. As long as we're wondering about the "meanings" of the various
Net-names ("SNs"), what the heck does "veetus" stand for?

That's the Lord High and Mighty's nickname for his little comic book monkey.  The one he likes to spank all the time.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/5/02 12:15:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

Why would the mutants
in the #4 costume design need different "filter" colors for their eye-
pieces?

Patrick

The answer lies BENEATH THE PLANET OF THE APES!<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/5/02 1:15:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, apeman@... writes:

I seem to remember, and
forgive me for not knowing the title and date of it's first airing (no
Trekki here), an episode where Kirk and the gang beamed down to a
planet and were held in a jail cell where white helmeted guards stood
watch over them with the Danish Madsen sub-machine guns.(There's
blooper reels of the guards rushing into the room and falling down
too.)  Quite possibly the same SMGs used in Beneath, because Stembridge
Arms supplied weapons to just about everything going on in Hollywood
back in those days.

I think that would be the "Planet of the Romans" episode called "Bread and Circuses" made in '67.  It was a "what if?" episode where the Roman Empire never fell and developed 20th Century technology.  The Centurion guards wore motorcycle helmets and carried submachine guns.

Brian (Welcome back!), you know the gorilla rifles in PLANET were glossy black and aren't the same ones that are shown in BENEATH.  Whatever happened to PLANET's rifles?

-- Rory <.html

.htmlOh, the pain!  The pain!   I just found this item at Ain't-it-cool.  I wonder if Eric Greene will be at the funeral.

The Pain!! The great Jonathan Harris passes

Jonathan Harris, best known for his portrayal of Dr. Zachary Smith on "Lost in Space," passed away Sunday. I can't begin to explain how important this guy was to me at one point in my life. I am one poor obit writer, and am too jammed up with real-world deadlines to write a proper tribute at the moment, but I also believe this news is too important to post belatedly. Until we can revisit this great actor and his career, find a short piece from the Chiller Theatre site. And I'm sure there are more than a few talkbackers who can honor this genius artist as well as I.                       11/06/1914 - 11/03/2002 RIP
















<.html

.htmlI was just reading over at Aint-it-cool-news that Universal is still interested in Peter Jackson doing a "King Kong" remake, but that we wouldn't see it until 2006 at the soonest.  Maybe that's how long it'll take for an APES 2.  What do you think, Jeff?

-- Rory <.html

.html

Should it stay or should it go? If it stays there could be trouble, but if it leaves it might be double. -

It should stay, if, that is IF, Connery is supposed to be THE original James Bond, and Jimmy jr. is just following in his father's footsteps.  Maybe his father was the orphan.  They didn't think of that?  Did they!  God, I should be drawing huge checks in Hollywood.<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/5/2002 9:27:46 AM Central Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

Cold filtering has done Miller a lot of good. They've gone from #2 to
#3 in the past few years.

I didn't say it was any good.  I just said they've been using that process for some time now.  I may not be drinking a lot of imports as a starving student, but Miller?  But hey, if I'm broke enough I'll drink Shaffer's Corn or Pabst Blue Ribbon.

<.html

I agree with much of what you say here Patrick.

However, again you ask about "Would a god stand idly by"?

I don't know Patrick, but I always look at it as IF there is a god he/she is
an artist and we are just a material used to achieve the art. I don't
really think it would logially follow that, because you create something,
you would run in and protect it against anything.

For example, if I were filming a scene in the wild where chimps were tearing
apart and devouring a baby monkey just for the hell of it, I would be
tempted to take a stick to the naughty chimps...but obviously it is more
acceptible to just let them go (as I watched on TV the other day).

Also, there are a lot of people who have beliefs they DO NOT impose on
others...again this choice stems from INTERPRETATION.

Also, many devout Christians believe Paul was quite MAD when he wrote the
book of revelations. You can't assume people blindly accapt all writings
and teachings promoted by their church - it just is not true.

If there is no "God" to put Humpty Dumpty back together, then what do you
think the whole "Escape" thing is? It is a chance for a new start.

I've seen some of your "science" Patrick and the way you interpret it at
times DEFIES logic (eg your thinking there is ANYTHING to your accidental
mathematical proofs). And as my science teacher explained to me..."Science
is all THEORY".

I feel sorry for you if you can't accept it as a POSSIBILITY that we were
CREATED. ANYTHING, my dear Patrick, is POSSIBLE. There are MANY things
science cannot explain.

Again you assume that if there is a creator, then he/she/it is RESPONSIBLE
for warding off evil. This is not necessarily true. Well, Patrick, what if
god has died of old age? What if god refuses to interfere? What if reality
is something like that portrayed in "Matrix"? Should DaVinci be alive and
protecting the Mona Lisa? LOGIC?

How many little kids, raised to believe in science, asked "Why didn't
science save those people?" after seeing the tragic events of that day
unfold? What kind of answers were rattled off?

The root of the recent attack in Indonesia which resulted in the deaths of
how many of my fellow Aussies is fanaticism. NOT religion.

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, 6 November 2002 2:41
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Religion IS a relevant and CRUCIAL
> topic for POTA (OT)
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > OK Patrick
> >
> > All insults aside, I think you are a little out of your league with
> your comments on religion.
> >
> > You seem to be confusing belief in god with acceptance/coveting of
> all the bad things that have been done in the name of god.
> >
> > Your comments only highlight your ignorance.
> >
> > Believing in a god simply means a belief that we have been created,
> it does not mean one condones the Spanish Inquisition.
> >
> > Michael
>
> *** Religion, as portrayed in the FICTIONAL "POTA universe", is a
> tool of repression, a false belief system utilized by the Powers-that-
> be to control the Masses. In the REAL universe, that pretty much sums
> up what Religion truly is, in my nontheistic view.
>
> If "believing in a god" was just that--a BELIEF--nobody would ever
> have a problem with ANYBODY's differing religious beliefs. It would
> be as "harmless" as believing in Leprechauns, or believing that the
> lost continent of Atlantis not only existed but also enjoyed the use
> of hovercars & meals-in-a-pill. A "belief", generally, is harmless to
> others around the Believer.
> But the danger of Religion, Mike, is that for the Believer BELIEF
> ISN'T ENOUGH. Those very beliefs require the Follower of whatever
> Ideology to ACT on those beliefs... usually in a manner which
> violates the rights of others who don't share those beliefs. THAT is
> how Religion is portrayed in the POTA saga--not as a harmless set of
> beliefs, but as a REPRESSIVE and DANGEROUS springboard for action.
> Action which ultimately leads to the entire planet being destroyed.
>
> Is there a "god" in the fictional POTA universe, as there is in
> the "Lord of the Rings" universe? Absolutely NOT. At the end of
> BENEATH, the planet Earth "is now dead". Not "mostly dead"...
> not "partially still breathing"... it's DEAD. Would a "god" ("...if
> there IS a god...") sit idly by and allow His precious creation--the
> planet and all those whom He had created in His image--to be
> completely annihilated? Not even the book of "Revelation" at its
> worst depicts an End as horrific as that. Rather, in SOME way,
> the "god" causes the Righteous to inherit the Earth--a "new Earth"
> with a "new Jerusalem", etc. In the POTA saga, Religion leads to War,
> which leads to the Total Destruction of the Earth. In the real world,
> Religion leads to War... which might very well lead to the Earth
> being destroyed (at least, the destruction of enough of us humans to
> make it important!). POTA tells it, satirically, like it IS. And
> there ain't no "God" to put Humpty Dumpty back together again after
> Taylor triggers the "Alpha Omega" Bomb.
>
> Religious belief began, in all probability, with the inability of
> Cavemen to understand natural phenomena such as Lightning & Thunder,
> Darkness, Comets, Earthquakes, disease epidemics, etc. That's why
> Zeus was thought of as a "thunder god" (like Thor, and a score of
> other cultures' "thunder gods"). The Gods were mythic inventions of
> the human mind, pre-scientific ways of coming to grips with phenomena
> for which they had no logical explanation--because their ways of
> thinking were based not on Logic, but on Fear (of Death, etc.) and
> Desire (for Food, for Sex/Love, for Progeny, etc.).
>
> Science is based on the rules of Logic, on the application of the
> Scientific Method. It has nothing to do with mere "belief". Thus,
> any "god"-concept is bound to be unscientific, if it has nothing
> going for it other than just "belief". If it could be tested in some
> way, and if such experimentation pointed to the presence of some
> noncorporeal, omniscient, omnipotent yet invisible Personality out
> there somewhere/everywhere... then Theism would be a valid,
> scientific belief.
>
> In the POTA universe, there is no "god" to intervene and prevent
> Doomsday from killing every living thing on the Earth (allowing only
> the "Ape-onauts" to escape back through Time to 1973). In the real
> universe, there was no "god" to save the innocent lives that were
> mercilessly taken on "9/11", despite the fact that THE ENTIRE WORLD
> was watching the event IN REAL TIME, and--undoubtedly--every Believer
> in a loving God was praying for that God to save those doomed people
> in the twin towers... and if BILLIONS of prayers aren't enough to get
> God off his fat ass to intervene, then that is "proof" enough to
> skeptics like me that the "power of prayer" is a sad joke--and that
> the "loving God" doesn't exist to answer such prayers in the first
> place.
> How many little kids, raised to believe in God, asked "Why didn't God
> save those people?" after seeing the tragic events of that day
> unfold? What kind of answers were rattled off?
>
> "The Lord works in mysterious ways..."
> "It was 'their time' and God was calling them to Himself..."
> "God wanted them in Heaven with Him & His angels..."
>
> And the little children who were in the hijacked planes... did God
> want them to die, too? Had those toddlers spent enough Time living
> their lives, prior to God "calling them to Himself"?
> I remember watching Billy Graham at that prayerfest just
> following "9/11", with all the former Presidents (sans Reagan)
> attending, and Billy asked all those questions. "Why did God allow
> this to happen?" In his own typical evangelical way, he tried to give
> an answer that gave comfort to those who lost loved ones, but in my
> mind it failed miserably. The cause of "9/11" was NOT the
> irreligiousness of America (as Falwell & Robertson alleged), which
> led God to empower Al-Qaeda to smite us: the cause of "9/11" is the
> tendency of people who BELIEVE in God to ACT on that belief in a
> manner which is intolerant and homicidal. That is the danger of mere
> Belief, that it leads to murderous Actions which are "justified" by a
> set of Dogmas & Doctrines written by Human (or Ape) hand under the
> lying pretense of having been "inspired by God". That is the root of
> the WTC/Pentagon attacks. That is the root of the recent attack in
> Indonesia which resulted in the deaths of how many of your fellow
> Aussies, Mike? It seems that the religion-addicted fanatics who
> perpetrate such crimes do not rely on their "god" to smite His
> enemies... they see themselves as the Instruments of their God,
> doing "His work" for him, acting as "His hand".
>
> Patrick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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to smite His enemies... they see themselves as the instruments of their God,
doing "His work" for him, acting as "His hand".

For someone who supposidly doesn't believe in God, you sure talk about Him a lot.

Remember Lot's wife
Renounce all sin and vice
Dream of the perfect life
This heaven give me migraine
     ~~~Gang of Four~~~~

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Wow!  Pretty concise answer.

*** Answer: No. Since we, with Earth-based telescopes, see all sorts
of galaxies from all sorts of different vantage points (some "edge
on", some at an angle--like the Andromeda Galaxy, some "face on" with
the entire pinwheel structure visible), then, ergo, galaxies aren't
oriented with the same axial inclination. Similarly, the stars in the
Milky Way aren't all aligned the same, since (for example) binary
systems are known to be at all sorts of inclinations (i.e. some "edge
on", or "face on", or at an angle). Since solar systems are formed as
a result of a nearby supernova compressing a bunch of interstellar
dust, then it goes to show that that spherically-expanding waveblast
from the supernova would compress neighboring nebulae in ALL
directions.

Patrick

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From the look of the land in the film, fertile land is hard to come by.  And if food is scarce and has to support both the ape as well as human communities, the only thing I can think of that would cause a sudden population explosion would be the fear generated by the arrival of the astronauts.  That trend would then be perpetuated by the fear of the impending war.

Oh no!  I'm starting to sound like Pat!<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/5/2002 10:50:44 AM Central Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

I don't know. Connery really hates the Broccolis. Sounds like aint it
cool reported something bogus and are now trying to cover their
tracks.

Then again, Connery has recently done a voice over for a Level 3 Coms. commercial, something I never thought I'd see, or hear I guess it'd be.  So if he was offered a huge pile of cash for working a day or two, who knows?  I never thought I'd see Heston in the makeup.  Talk about cameos that should have been cut!

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M3 Greasegun (they don't fit, trust me), but rather the more streamlined
Danish Madsen sub-machine gun.

I've heard of Swedish K's, but Danish Madsen's?  That's a new one on me.  Thanks for clearing that up Brian.  Yeah, Stembridge Arms is amazing.  I'd love to take a tour out there someday.  It is movie gun heaven.  I called them once, trying to get a barrel length on John Wayne's Winchester, so I could fit one with a large loop lever.  Unfortunately the Stagecoach original was a 12 or 14 incher, which requires a class 3 stamp unless its an antique.  And I don't have that kind of scratch right now.  The Rio Bravo/El Dorado 38/40 was longer -- 18 inches, I think.  I compromised with a 16 inch Winchester. I believe the One in True Grit was that length.  But mine's a 94, and The Duke always used 92s.  And it's a Trapper, and though the cross block's safety's are handy for not shooting myself when twirl cocking it, it isn't exactly accurate historically speaking, to the Old West, or to the films.

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/5/2002 9:42:25 AM Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

Would a "God" ("...if there IS a God...") sit idly by and allow His precious creation--the planet and all those whom He had created in His image--to be completely annihilated?

Why not?  Perhaps that's what He created it for.  The Lord works in mysterious ways.  Who hasn't built a sand castle only to kick it down or let it be washed away by the sea?  Besides you talk like it's a bad thing.  It might be great!  If you believe, than no one really dies, so what's the big tragedy?  Oh sure, it look painful from this side.  But from the other side it might be like doing stut dives for cocktai waitresses.  If a stunt man does a full body burn and a four story fall, you applaud, as long as he gets up afterward.

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Sure it makes sense. But it is all still supposition and there is
nothing in the film to support it. There is also nothing in the film
to refute it either.
Also, where in the film does it state that Cornelius drew the map?
While it is a logical deduction, again there is also nothing in the
film to support that he did. As well as nothing to suggest that no
maps of a larger area were not available.

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 11/5/02 11:29:49 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
>
> > So, there IS something in the film to support the presence of
other
> > surrounding desert areas, even though they may be "off the map".
So
> > why didn't Cornelius draw a larger-area map with those other
deserts
> > visible? Simple: his archaeological interest was in the
territory he
> > illegally investigated--the "Dead Lake" area, the Ocean's coast
> > (where he found the Cave), etc.
> > Makes sense to me.
> >
> > Patrick
> >
> >
>
> Makes sense to me, especially if you agree with me that in PLANET
the "Green
> Belts" are what's still livable areas in what was the Blue Ridge
Mountains.
> From the DC area on up it was a megalopolis that got completely
nuked, as did
> the area I live in, Florida, and as did New Orleans, the big
cities of the
> Midwest, and then the Pacific coast. Big cities in Canada got it
too. So in
> 3978 there are just little pockets of jungle, because the climate
has become
> more tropical, surrounded by desert because two thousand years of
erosion of
> irradiated soil has left the landscape barren.
>
> Makes sense to me.
>
> -- Rory

Except of the line in Goldeneye stating Bonds parents died in a
skiing accident when he was young.

--- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:
>
> It should stay, if, that is IF, Connery is supposed to be THE
original James
> Bond, and Jimmy jr. is just following in his father's footsteps.
Maybe his
> father was the orphan. They didn't think of that? Did they!
God, I should
> be drawing huge checks in Hollywood.

Oh no!!! Michael is channeling Patrick now.

--- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> I agree with much of what you say here Patrick.
>
> However, again you ask about "Would a god stand idly by"?
>
> I don't know Patrick, but I always look at it as IF there is a god
he/she is
> an artist and we are just a material used to achieve the art. I
don't
> really think it would logially follow that, because you create
something,
> you would run in and protect it against anything.
>
> For example, if I were filming a scene in the wild where chimps
were tearing
> apart and devouring a baby monkey just for the hell of it, I would
be
> tempted to take a stick to the naughty chimps...but obviously it
is more
> acceptible to just let them go (as I watched on TV the other day).
>
> Also, there are a lot of people who have beliefs they DO NOT
impose on
> others...again this choice stems from INTERPRETATION.
>
> Also, many devout Christians believe Paul was quite MAD when he
wrote the
> book of revelations. You can't assume people blindly accapt all
writings
> and teachings promoted by their church - it just is not true.
>
> If there is no "God" to put Humpty Dumpty back together, then what
do you
> think the whole "Escape" thing is? It is a chance for a new start.
>
> I've seen some of your "science" Patrick and the way you interpret
it at
> times DEFIES logic (eg your thinking there is ANYTHING to your
accidental
> mathematical proofs). And as my science teacher explained to
me..."Science
> is all THEORY".
>
> I feel sorry for you if you can't accept it as a POSSIBILITY that
we were
> CREATED. ANYTHING, my dear Patrick, is POSSIBLE. There are MANY
things
> science cannot explain.
>
> Again you assume that if there is a creator, then he/she/it is
RESPONSIBLE
> for warding off evil. This is not necessarily true. Well,
Patrick, what if
> god has died of old age? What if god refuses to interfere? What
if reality
> is something like that portrayed in "Matrix"? Should DaVinci be
alive and
> protecting the Mona Lisa? LOGIC?
>
> How many little kids, raised to believe in science, asked "Why
didn't
> science save those people?" after seeing the tragic events of that
day
> unfold? What kind of answers were rattled off?
>
> The root of the recent attack in Indonesia which resulted in the
deaths of
> how many of my fellow Aussies is fanaticism. NOT religion.
>
> Michael
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@y...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, 6 November 2002 2:41
> > To: pota@y...
> > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Religion IS a relevant and
CRUCIAL
> > topic for POTA (OT)
> >
> >
> > --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > > OK Patrick
> > >
> > > All insults aside, I think you are a little out of your league
with
> > your comments on religion.
> > >
> > > You seem to be confusing belief in god with
acceptance/coveting of
> > all the bad things that have been done in the name of god.
> > >
> > > Your comments only highlight your ignorance.
> > >
> > > Believing in a god simply means a belief that we have been
created,
> > it does not mean one condones the Spanish Inquisition.
> > >
> > > Michael
> >
> > *** Religion, as portrayed in the FICTIONAL "POTA universe", is a
> > tool of repression, a false belief system utilized by the Powers-
that-
> > be to control the Masses. In the REAL universe, that pretty much
sums
> > up what Religion truly is, in my nontheistic view.
> >
> > If "believing in a god" was just that--a BELIEF--nobody would
ever
> > have a problem with ANYBODY's differing religious beliefs. It
would
> > be as "harmless" as believing in Leprechauns, or believing that
the
> > lost continent of Atlantis not only existed but also enjoyed the
use
> > of hovercars & meals-in-a-pill. A "belief", generally, is
harmless to
> > others around the Believer.
> > But the danger of Religion, Mike, is that for the Believer BELIEF
> > ISN'T ENOUGH. Those very beliefs require the Follower of whatever
> > Ideology to ACT on those beliefs... usually in a manner which
> > violates the rights of others who don't share those beliefs.
THAT is
> > how Religion is portrayed in the POTA saga--not as a harmless
set of
> > beliefs, but as a REPRESSIVE and DANGEROUS springboard for
action.
> > Action which ultimately leads to the entire planet being
destroyed.
> >
> > Is there a "god" in the fictional POTA universe, as there is in
> > the "Lord of the Rings" universe? Absolutely NOT. At the end of
> > BENEATH, the planet Earth "is now dead". Not "mostly dead"...
> > not "partially still breathing"... it's DEAD. Would a "god"
("...if
> > there IS a god...") sit idly by and allow His precious creation--
the
> > planet and all those whom He had created in His image--to be
> > completely annihilated? Not even the book of "Revelation" at its
> > worst depicts an End as horrific as that. Rather, in SOME way,
> > the "god" causes the Righteous to inherit the Earth--a "new
Earth"
> > with a "new Jerusalem", etc. In the POTA saga, Religion leads to
War,
> > which leads to the Total Destruction of the Earth. In the real
world,
> > Religion leads to War... which might very well lead to the Earth
> > being destroyed (at least, the destruction of enough of us
humans to
> > make it important!). POTA tells it, satirically, like it IS. And
> > there ain't no "God" to put Humpty Dumpty back together again
after
> > Taylor triggers the "Alpha Omega" Bomb.
> >
> > Religious belief began, in all probability, with the inability of
> > Cavemen to understand natural phenomena such as Lightning &
Thunder,
> > Darkness, Comets, Earthquakes, disease epidemics, etc. That's why
> > Zeus was thought of as a "thunder god" (like Thor, and a score of
> > other cultures' "thunder gods"). The Gods were mythic inventions
of
> > the human mind, pre-scientific ways of coming to grips with
phenomena
> > for which they had no logical explanation--because their ways of
> > thinking were based not on Logic, but on Fear (of Death, etc.)
and
> > Desire (for Food, for Sex/Love, for Progeny, etc.).
> >
> > Science is based on the rules of Logic, on the application of the
> > Scientific Method. It has nothing to do with mere "belief". Thus,
> > any "god"-concept is bound to be unscientific, if it has nothing
> > going for it other than just "belief". If it could be tested in
some
> > way, and if such experimentation pointed to the presence of some
> > noncorporeal, omniscient, omnipotent yet invisible Personality
out
> > there somewhere/everywhere... then Theism would be a valid,
> > scientific belief.
> >
> > In the POTA universe, there is no "god" to intervene and prevent
> > Doomsday from killing every living thing on the Earth (allowing
only
> > the "Ape-onauts" to escape back through Time to 1973). In the
real
> > universe, there was no "god" to save the innocent lives that were
> > mercilessly taken on "9/11", despite the fact that THE ENTIRE
WORLD
> > was watching the event IN REAL TIME, and--undoubtedly--every
Believer
> > in a loving God was praying for that God to save those doomed
people
> > in the twin towers... and if BILLIONS of prayers aren't enough
to get
> > God off his fat ass to intervene, then that is "proof" enough to
> > skeptics like me that the "power of prayer" is a sad joke--and
that
> > the "loving God" doesn't exist to answer such prayers in the
first
> > place.
> > How many little kids, raised to believe in God, asked "Why
didn't God
> > save those people?" after seeing the tragic events of that day
> > unfold? What kind of answers were rattled off?
> >
> > "The Lord works in mysterious ways..."
> > "It was 'their time' and God was calling them to Himself..."
> > "God wanted them in Heaven with Him & His angels..."
> >
> > And the little children who were in the hijacked planes... did
God
> > want them to die, too? Had those toddlers spent enough Time
living
> > their lives, prior to God "calling them to Himself"?
> > I remember watching Billy Graham at that prayerfest just
> > following "9/11", with all the former Presidents (sans Reagan)
> > attending, and Billy asked all those questions. "Why did God
allow
> > this to happen?" In his own typical evangelical way, he tried to
give
> > an answer that gave comfort to those who lost loved ones, but in
my
> > mind it failed miserably. The cause of "9/11" was NOT the
> > irreligiousness of America (as Falwell & Robertson alleged),
which
> > led God to empower Al-Qaeda to smite us: the cause of "9/11" is
the
> > tendency of people who BELIEVE in God to ACT on that belief in a
> > manner which is intolerant and homicidal. That is the danger of
mere
> > Belief, that it leads to murderous Actions which are "justified"
by a
> > set of Dogmas & Doctrines written by Human (or Ape) hand under
the
> > lying pretense of having been "inspired by God". That is the
root of
> > the WTC/Pentagon attacks. That is the root of the recent attack
in
> > Indonesia which resulted in the deaths of how many of your fellow
> > Aussies, Mike? It seems that the religion-addicted fanatics who
> > perpetrate such crimes do not rely on their "god" to smite His
> > enemies... they see themselves as the Instruments of their God,
> > doing "His work" for him, acting as "His hand".
> >
> > Patrick
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >
> >

Connery has been doing voiceover for foreign commercials for years.
He's been offered large sums in the past to return for small roles
and has always turned them down.
Plus none of the Bond websites like MI6, ianfleming.org, Universal
Exports or Absolutely James Bond have ever reported this and they
have all been pretty acurate in the past. Sounds more like aint it
cool reported a bogus rumor and is now trying to back out of it.

--- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> Then again, Connery has recently done a voice over for a Level 3
Coms.
> commercial, something I never thought I'd see, or hear I guess
it'd be. So
> if he was offered a huge pile of cash for working a day or two,
who knows? I
> never thought I'd see Heston in the makeup. Talk about cameos
that should
> have been cut!

Patrick,

I always suspected there are more "selves" than one in there!

Michael

"but you're much nicer to me than he is, so I'm being "my better
self"!"

I suspect the first thing that poor gerbil would see is your tonsils,
Patrick.

Get back to shifting those poles and denegrating countries with name
changes.

Michael

*** What Richard Gere's gerbil has to do to "see the light" again?

Actually Rory, I screwed up yesterday when I statated that one desert
and another are much the same (I realised this yesterday after seeing
news footage from the desert here).

The desert sand here has an eerie red tinge to it. This would make
it look far more alien, particularly to those (many) who have not
seen the Australian desert.

Michael

Welcome back Brian.

One thing we have been throwing about (again) is the glyphs.

I know about the e=mc2 thing, but other than that what do we KNOW
about the glyphs?

Are they status symbols? Are they a LANGUAGE (it seems not because
the apes seem to read the ENGLISH language eg what Taylor writes to
Zira)?

Who holds the answers?

Michael




Hey Gang, Long time no smell! Been a busy year, but things are
quiet
now so I can join in the fun once more.

Looking through some old postings here I noticed a convo on the apes
weapons. Not sure if this had been corrected or not yet, but I'll
add
my 2 cents worth.

Yes, the "hero" ape carbines were surplus WWII or Korean issue semi-
auto M-1 Carbines. The Gorilla sub-machine gun, however, was not an
M3
Greasegun (they don't fit, trust me), but rather the more streamlined
Danish Madsen sub-machine gun. You can see these subs (without the
ape
stocks) used in a few classic 60's episodes of Man from Uncle, Voyage
to the Bottom of the Sea, and Star Trek. I seem to remember, and
forgive me for not knowing the title and date of it's first airing
(no
Trekki here), an episode where Kirk and the gang beamed down to a
planet and were held in a jail cell where white helmeted guards stood
watch over them with the Danish Madsen sub-machine guns.(There's
blooper reels of the guards rushing into the room and falling down
too.) Quite possibly the same SMGs used in Beneath, because
Stembridge
Arms supplied weapons to just about everything going on in Hollywood
back in those days. If I can figure out how to post a foto with this
message, I'll do it. If not, my bad.

Take care. Hope everyone had a fun and safe Halloween.

Brian Penikas
APEMANIA.COM