.htmlIn a message dated 11/9/02 6:17:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

So tell us, I don't think you have, why is that series so good? What's the
storyline (26 episodes is a long time to hold interest)? - - - Jeff

Is it as good as 24?<.html

Attachments :

.htmlIn a message dated 11/9/02 7:06:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

That's a generalization. 

Generalize this, you conservative!
<.html

.html "Snapperhead"  I like that.  Rock on, Birthday boy!

Brian

veetus@... wrote:

   What'd ya mean? Brian's paying for it and money is no object because POTA has given him so much. Maybe you can chip in, snapperhead! - - - Jeff  

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 3:30 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Up-lifting topic, albeit pure fantasy

 

Give us wild ideas and keep us surprised.

GIVE seems to be the operative word there, Mr. Project Greenlight.  It never ceases to amaze me that people expect others to do their work for them simply for the privilege of doing it.  Well, as the old saying goes, you get what you pay for.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

<.html

Like I said I know some liberals that are jerks;-)

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> Generalize this, you conservative!

.htmlIn a message dated 11/9/02 7:48:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, ktaylor@... writes:

Hey Rory,
Further to your topic of Australian locations for an Ape movie, here's a
link to a site featuruing one of our more wacky deserts. Maybe for the
direct-to-video sequel starring Lorenzo Lamas, Lou Ferringo and Shannen
Doherty.

http://www.discoverwest.com.au/pinnacle.html/blockquote>

Yeah, that's the kind of thing I've seen before.  That would be a cool place to make a post apocalyptic movie.  You could even dress up some of those rock formations to look like the remains of human buildings.

-- Rory
<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/9/02 8:02:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, apeman@... writes:

My take on the Baboons, Mandrils,  and Gibbons, would be that they would be sub-cultures or lesser species.  Especially the Baboons.  That would be like the taboo town, "Nobody goes there!  Too Dangerous!  Too unpredictable!"  Kinda like East LA (Hah!  Beat you too it!)

Brian


Actually, most of East L.A. is supposed to be rather nice, so I've seen on TV.

Anyway, did you know they thought about having baboons in the original POTA movie?  But, T hadn't been born yet.

-- Rory
<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/9/02 8:08:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, mlccougar@... writes:

Does anyone in here know "why" they distribute (and / or manufacture) DVDs and VHS in this way? I mean why didn't they go with one "global" type of player, which can play DVDs & videos from any part of the world, rather than have it that not all are complatible?

They want to have some control over the marketplace, plus they want to make copying harder, but it ain't working.<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/9/02 8:09:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, sand_hill_school@... writes:

"A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

--Helen

I think we're long past the time that regulated militia are necessary.  We got a pretty damn big national military machine.  But I like that word "regulated."  That can mean a lot.

-- Rory<.html

Attachments :

.htmlIn a message dated 11/9/02 9:35:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

What'd ya mean? Brian's paying for it and money is no object because POTA has given him so much. Maybe you can chip in, snapperhead! - - - Jeff

Hey, snapperhead!
<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/9/02 9:48:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

  It looks like Trona Pinnacles, where they shot POTA2001, only more
hyper. - - - Jeff

Also looks like a good place to lose T.<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/9/02 10:35:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

Well I rather have a sex fiend than a war monger as President. Less
innocent people die that way.

Bush is the perfect President for our times:  an acceptable mediocrity doing a job that no one with any brains would want to do.<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/9/02 10:48:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

Like I said I know some liberals that are jerks;-)

Yeah, like every time you look in the mirror!  AH HA HA HA!<.html

How'd you know I had a picture of you pasted on my mirror.

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
>
> Yeah, like every time you look in the mirror! AH HA HA HA!

.htmlIn a message dated 11/9/02 11:08:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

How'd you know I had a picture of you pasted on my mirror.

Because I know you're obsessed with me!  You can't get enough!<.html

It's there to remind me of fashion don'ts.

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
>
> Because I know you're obsessed with me! You can't get enough!

.htmlIn a message dated 11/9/02 11:20:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

It's there to remind me of fashion don'ts.

Yeah, right.  We all believe that!<.html

.html <.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Ken and Heather Taylor

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 4:15 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] (OT) "Regional DVDs"

Does anyone in here know "why" they distribute (and / or manufacture) DVDs and VHS in this way? I mean why didn't they go with one "global" type of player, which can play DVDs & videos from any part of the world, rather than have it that not all are complatible?

 

 

I think a lot of it has to do with both hardware and software distributors wanting to prevent parrallel importing from cannabilising their efforts in each territory. Especially for film distributors, who's products gets a staggered theatrical release internationally. If all countries were the same as the U.S format, importing would pose a greater threat to studio's international businesses, both for VHS and DVD and Theatrical. Quite often films are released on DVD before they are released theatrically in some countries. This is because different countires have different seasonal windows  to release product to attract bigger audiences. For major releases, Australia is pretty close in release timing with the U.S although smaller releases can often take months to get a theatrical release, if at all.

Best,

KEN

<.html

Attachments :

.htmlIn a message dated 11/10/02 12:19:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, ktaylor@... writes:

Quite often films are released on DVD in America before they are released theatrically in some countries.

Is what I meant to say.

Yeah, what he says.

And James and T. . . .
<.html

.htmlThis isn't to knock the baboons, mandrills, etc. idea you posed in the email (I did that before with "NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!") but this email of your's is a good one otherwise... I am surprised you didn't get any real response to it... Hopefully people are thinking of ideas they'd pose...

I do like the fact that you'd want it set in the "world" of the first two movies, although you said you're not opposed to a bigger 'n better version of the tv series either... Maybe it could be a combination of the two like Rod Serling's scripts seemed to... Have Burke and Virdon land in the world of 3978 and be on a rescue mission to find Taylor and his crew... I know we'd have to be very "creative" in getting them there, because in Beneath we already have Brent & the Skipper... One way we could get around it is to make them part of the same crew as the Beneath rescue mission... We could take some creative liberties and say that while Brent was taking care of their ailing commander, Burke and Virdon were off exploring their new "home" and were looking for a place that'd be more inhabitable than the desert in which they crashed... Or we could just say the events of Beneath didn't (or wouldn't) happen, as Serling's two scripts did, and then Burke and Virdon (or, if you prefer Virdon and Kovak) would be the rescue team, rather than Brent & Skipper... We could also take another cue from Serling's scripts and include Galen, as well as Zaius and Ursus... As for story idea/plots, I have none right now, but I do think I'd like to see it stay with the (as Jeff called it) "Apes on horses" society...

As for casting it, definately go with unknowns, or if "known" people are used, go with they type that are familiar faces but not "names"... <.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/9/2002 1:16:32 PM Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

Bill Blake said as the TV show was going down for the third time, the producers enlisted Gene Roddenbury to revamp it and make it more like the movies, including characters like Cornelius and Zira. Bill says he and Paula Crist auditioned for the parts at Gene's house and Gene liked what he saw (I've seen a letter of recommendation for them signed by Gene). Anyway, apparently that was being considered.

I seem to remember reading that bit about getting Roddenbury involved somewhere else before, but that's not what I wanted to comment on... I wanted to ask if Bill mentioned anything else about it as far as content... I mean my guess is even though he auditioned, he probably wouldn't know all the ideas being kicked around by them... But when he auditioned, did he just go in and do a bit of Cornelius from Planet, or were they working from a script of the "revamped" ideas? Does he know if they were planning on still keeping the three central characters, as well as the "villainous" Urko and Zaius, and setting the series in that world of the original Planet, or were they going to scrap all the "new" characters and just go back to square one (i.e. Cornelius, Zira...)

I wouldn't be surprised if Fox tries to return to the roots on the next "reimagination".

All I'll say to this is: That's what they shoulda done in the first place!!!!<.html

.html

Since the Army of the Apes series was released in Japanese only with
no subtitles, it is difficult as a non-Japanese speaker to be sure
of the plot.

Maybe I can find a Fan Sub of it.

<.html

.html

My take on the Baboons, Mandrils,  and Gibbons, would be that they would be sub-cultures or lesser species.  Especially the Baboons.  That would be like the taboo town, "Nobody goes there!  Too Dangerous!  Too unpredictable!"  Kinda like East LA (Hah!  Beat you too it!)

Beat me to it?
I wouldn't go there.

<.html

.html

I was a little surprised that something that I had thought was a toy might
actually be a working machine.

Good for you for taking the safety course.  More people should, even if they don't plan on ever owning a gun.  You know what they say . . . Safe T First, safe you second.  Yeah, all the props you see for sale are just that.  Non-firing replicas.  The ones in the film that you actually see firing are real firearms in a shell, or fitted with an ape stock.  The automatics are usually fitted with a plug in the barrel.  When an auto fires a blank, without a bullet, it won't generate enough pressure to cycle the bolt.  This is especially true of the open bolt sub-guns.  The plugs just a nut with a couple holes drilled through it.  It screws far enough into the front of the barrel that it cant be seen.  The holes let some flame out so you can see that it's firing, but trap enough of the gas to cycle the bolt.  They make two types of blanks for film use, smokers and flamers.  Uzi's are especially finicky about running on blanks.  Sometimes you'll see MACs that have been tricked out to look like Uzi's in some of the B movies.  Most likely the script called for an Uzi, but they couldn't get the it to operate consistently.

<.html

.html

What'd ya mean? Brian's paying for it and money is no object because POTA has given him so much.

Well, in that case, I'll get right on it, just as soon as I see the figures on the contract.<.html

.html

Well I rather have a sex fiend than a war monger as President. Less innocent people die that way.

I don't know.  I could be wrong, but if you look at the Clinton death lists as many as 77 people were killed.  Seems like that was more than the number of US soldiers in the Gulf War.

<.html

.htmlGeneralize this, you conservative!

I'm an independent.<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/9/2002 9:51:58 PM Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

But, T hadn't been born yet.

Yes, I had.<.html

.html

Anyway, did you know they thought about having baboons in the original POTA movie?  But, T hadn't been born yet.

If I hadn't been born yet, how could I have seen it when it was released?  Like most Libo's your argument consists if attacks, and not facts.<.html

.html

I think we're long past the time that regulated militia are necessary.  We got a pretty damn big national military machine.

The militia was never the standing army.  They didn't even want one.  But the militia was entirely separate.  It was there not only for the common defense, but to protect the people in case those in power turned the army on the people.  Now what an armed group is going to do against Cruise Missiles I can't imagine.  But that's no reason to give up your rights as Americans.  I understand in Florida they can kick your door in if you have kids and smoke ciggies in the house.  Thin end of the wedge.<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: Haristas@... [Haristas@...]
Sent: Sunday, 10 November 2002 9:10
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Apes Guns...

In a message dated 11/9/02 4:57:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, ktaylor@... writes:

So what are you saying Rory? North America can feel comfort in the fact that you don't own a gun......or POTA gorilla outfit?

Yeah, I guess so, but I do wish I had a POTA gorilla outfit, but it would have to be from the original movie with an original gun.  Then I'd book a flight to Australia.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

Are Krueger, Taylor and Rory all stoned, sitting around the lounge room or
something?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: veetus@... [veetus@...]
> Sent: Sunday, 10 November 2002 10:15
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] ape rifles and Army of the Apes
>
>
> You say they're not subtitled so does that mean you know
> Japanese? Maybe T
> can help you with that as his thesis. - - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Menluth" <menluth@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2002 2:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] ape rifles and Army of the Apes
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> > Is the series available on video? Or any articles with an episode
> > guide? - - - Jeff
>
> You've given me a good idea, Jeff. Since no one else has done it
> yet, I will work on my own English-language episode guide to the
> Army of the Apes series and post it in the "Files" section on the
> Saru no Gundan - Time of the Apes mailing list. I am still working
> through the episodes myself. Unlike POTA-TV, they are serialized, so
> there is an ongoing plot that is revealed over the course of 26
> episodes.
>
> Menluth.
>
> ¡¡Check out the "Saru no Gundan - Time of the Apes" Yahoo mailing
> list on http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sarunogundan !!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian [apeman@...]
Sent: Sunday, 10 November 2002 12:03
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Up-lifting topic, albeit pure fantasy

My take on the Baboons, Mandrils,  and Gibbons, would be that they would be sub-cultures or lesser species.  Especially the Baboons.  That would be like the taboo town, "Nobody goes there!  Too Dangerous!  Too unpredictable!"  Kinda like East LA (Hah!  Beat you too it!)

Brian

LordTZer0@... wrote:

 I for one would like to see and introduce new species of apes, Babboon, Madrills, Gibbons, etc., but still keep the styles traditional

I for one, find the baboons and gibbons idea ridiculous, and the only thing that could have made the film worse.  But for the sake of argument, just off the top of my head, I think the series should be a combination of the films and the book, with some grudging acceptance by ape society, with little plots and conspiracies cooked up by the orangs and gorillas.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: mlccougar@... [mlccougar@...]
Sent: Sunday, 10 November 2002 12:08
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] (OT) "Regional DVDs"

I'm not an Aussie, but I do believe you UKers and the Aussie share the same PAL video system, however I think that for DVD Australia is Region 4, and Britian is Region 2, so the damn players might not except the discs!

Does anyone in here know "why" they distribute (and / or manufacture) DVDs and VHS in this way? I mean why didn't they go with one "global" type of player, which can play DVDs & videos from any part of the world, rather than have it that not all are complatible?
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

So I guess Sadam should keep his then?

Michaek

> -----Original Message-----
> From: sand_hill_school [sand_hill_school@...]
> Sent: Sunday, 10 November 2002 12:09

the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

>
> --Helen
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> >
> > > It sure sounds like you guys are talking about real firearms!
> > >
> > No need for the exclaimation point Helen. I know the rest of the
> world is
> > horrified to even think about guns, but here in Texas you can own
> any kind of
> > gun that you can get the paper work though on. Even so, you'll be
> pleased to
> > hear the only gunfights I've seen have been at Six Flags and were
> all part of
> > the show. I've even met a Texan who had a fear of guns. But
> considering
> > they also had a fear of beer, I wouldn not call them a run-of-the-
> mill Texan.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Attachments :

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: Haristas@... [Haristas@...]
Sent: Sunday, 10 November 2002 14:44
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] [OT] Calling the Aussies

In a message dated 11/9/02 7:06:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

That's a generalization. 

Generalize this, you conservative!

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: Ken and Heather Taylor [ktaylor@...]
Sent: Sunday, 10 November 2002 16:15
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] (OT) "Regional DVDs"

Does anyone in here know "why" they distribute (and / or manufacture) DVDs and VHS in this way? I mean why didn't they go with one "global" type of player, which can play DVDs & videos from any part of the world, rather than have it that not all are complatible?

 

 

I think a lot of it has to do with both hardware and software distributors wanting to prevent parrallel importing from cannabilising their efforts in each territory. Especially for film distributors, who's products gets a staggered theatrical release internationally. If all countries were the same as the U.S format, importing would pose a greater threat to studio's international businesses, both for VHS and DVD and Theatrical. Quite often films are released on DVD before they are released theatrically in some countries. This is because different countires have different seasonal windows  to release product to attract bigger audiences. For major releases, Australia is pretty close in release timing with the U.S although smaller releases can often take months to get a theatrical release, if at all.

Best,

KEN

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian [apeman@...]
Sent: Sunday, 10 November 2002 2:17
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Up-lifting topic, albeit pure fantasy

Hey Gang,

Okay, let's just say I won the lottery, just for conversation's sake.  Once I've finished with all the celebration parties on yaughts with Hef's rent-a-babes, I'm going to get serious about a NEW Planet of the Apes televison series based on the first 2 films and their original characters.
I'm not opposed to taking the premise of the TV series to bigger and better heights either.

As fans and the experts that you all are on this subject, let's come up with an interesting story line, maybe not so much starting at the beginning, but certainly picking up after the conclusion of the first film.

I for one would like to see and introduce new species of apes, Babboon, Madrills, Gibbons, etc., but still keep the styles traditional

Whaddya say?

Should we go with unknowns for cast?  Or should we risk using clueless uncommitted individuals (like Marky Mark)?  Ugh!

Fire away!!!

Brian
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: mlccougar@... [mlccougar@...]
Sent: Sunday, 10 November 2002 19:05
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Up-lifting topic, albeit pure fantasy

This isn't to knock the baboons, mandrills, etc. idea you posed in the email (I did that before with "NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!") but this email of your's is a good one otherwise... I am surprised you didn't get any real response to it... Hopefully people are thinking of ideas they'd pose...

I do like the fact that you'd want it set in the "world" of the first two movies, although you said you're not opposed to a bigger 'n better version of the tv series either... Maybe it could be a combination of the two like Rod Serling's scripts seemed to... Have Burke and Virdon land in the world of 3978 and be on a rescue mission to find Taylor and his crew... I know we'd have to be very "creative" in getting them there, because in Beneath we already have Brent & the Skipper... One way we could get around it is to make them part of the same crew as the Beneath rescue mission... We could take some creative liberties and say that while Brent was taking care of their ailing commander, Burke and Virdon were off exploring their new "home" and were looking for a place that'd be more inhabitable than the desert in which they crashed... Or we could just say the events of Beneath didn't (or wouldn't) happen, as Serling's two scripts did, and then Burke and Virdon (or, if you prefer Virdon and Kovak) would b

As for casting it, definately go with unknowns, or if "known" people are used, go with they type that are familiar faces but not "names"...
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: LordTZer0@... [LordTZer0@...]
Sent: Sunday, 10 November 2002 20:43
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Up-lifting topic, albeit pure fantasy

What'd ya mean? Brian's paying for it and money is no object because POTA has given him so much.

Well, in that case, I'll get right on it, just as soon as I see the figures on the contract.

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: LordTZer0@... [LordTZer0@...]
Sent: Sunday, 10 November 2002 20:52
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] [OT] Calling the Aussies

Generalize this, you conservative!

I'm an independent.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: mlccougar@... [mlccougar@...]
Sent: Sunday, 10 November 2002 19:05
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Up-lifting topic, albeit pure fantasy

This isn't to knock the baboons, mandrills, etc. idea you posed in the email (I did that before with "NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!") but this email of your's is a good one otherwise... I am surprised you didn't get any real response to it... Hopefully people are thinking of ideas they'd pose...

I do like the fact that you'd want it set in the "world" of the first two movies, although you said you're not opposed to a bigger 'n better version of the tv series either... Maybe it could be a combination of the two like Rod Serling's scripts seemed to... Have Burke and Virdon land in the world of 3978 and be on a rescue mission to find Taylor and his crew... I know we'd have to be very "creative" in getting them there, because in Beneath we already have Brent & the Skipper... One way we could get around it is to make them part of the same crew as the Beneath rescue mission... We could take some creative liberties and say that while Brent was taking care of their ailing commander, Burke and Virdon were off exploring their new "home" and were looking for a place that'd be more inhabitable than the desert in which they crashed... Or we could just say the events of Beneath didn't (or wouldn't) happen, as Serling's two scripts did, and then Burke and Virdon (or, if you prefer Virdon and Kovak) would b

As for casting it, definately go with unknowns, or if "known" people are used, go with they type that are familiar faces but not "names"...
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/10/2002 5:26:18 AM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

For example, Clint Eastwood's latest movie....hasn't made the cinemas here yet....it should be out on DVD in the US by now.

Yeah, no doubt.  It didn't last long in the theater.<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/10/2002 5:33:19 AM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

I won't ask T because he will need to copywright his efforts first.

My efforts are copyrighted.  You won't see me making any efforts in this direction until I see a contract.  Hollywood has more thieves than Ali Baba, ala Swiming With Sharks.<.html

"Ken Taylor" <ktaylor@...> wrote:

> Get your friend to try EZYDVD.COM.AU they have the broadest range of

mail

> order DVD's down under and order stuff in if it's not on hand. They

take

> international orders.

Thanks Ken, I'll tell him to give that a try.

Alan

Rory <Haristas@...> wrote:

> I'm not an Aussie, but I do believe you UKers and the Aussie share

the same

> PAL video system, however I think that for DVD Australia is Region

4, and

> Britian is Region 2, so the damn players might not except the discs!

I know that (although I have seen a number of discs that are just
R2/4 - presumably in these cases since they're both PAL they just sell
the same discs in UK & Oz to save cost). However, the regional thing
wouldn't be an issue - what I was meaning was that he would order the
discs from an Oz site and have them sent to an Oz address and
therefore for all intents and purposes it wouldn't be an international
order.

Alan

<mlccougar@...> wrote:

> Have Burke and Virdon land in the world of
> 3978 and be on a rescue mission to find Taylor and his crew... I

know we'd

> have to be very "creative" in getting them there, because in Beneath

we

> already have Brent & the Skipper... One way we could get around it

is to make

> them part of the same crew as the Beneath rescue mission...

I suppose a good way of doing this would be to suggest that, as you
said, Virdon/Burke and Skipper/Brent would be part of the same
mission, but also be part of the same mission as Taylor too. It makes
sense if you assume that the three crafts were in actual fact three
shuttlepod type things that were sent from a larger mothership. What
do people think of this idea?

Alan

.htmlKen and I were talking on the phone the other night and we commented that it must be a unique Aussie thing that you never discuss politics and religion unless you want a shit fight on your hands.
 

  Just seems common sense to me.

Too true, Mick.  However this is an Apes group.  Cut out the politics and religion and all that's left to discuss is how cool the makeups looked.
<.html

.htmlT
 
I hope I never hear you say "why didn't they ask the fans what they wanted?"!
 
Michael

I wouldn't ask that.  I'd ask why didn't they ask ME what made POTA great.  I know what the fans wanted.  They wanted Gorilliator, and they got it.  They got what they wanted.  How does it taste?  I remember a lot of people saying, Gorillas and Humans fighting?  COOL!  And me, and perhaps a few others, saying . . . Hey!  Apes is supposed to be a thinking man's film!  Not some, Sword & Sandal Matinee!  But hell, all the stuff that made the first one work went over Zanuck and the suits heads on the first one.  So there's no reason they should know how to make it again, but that hasn't stopped them from trying.  You may not know it, I'm actually a very easy going chap in real life.  I guess I enjoy being cynical at television so much, it's transferred to the computer.  85% of it is a bit.  It's Punk Humor.  It doesn't always sound funny.<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/10/02 5:02:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

The militia was never the standing army.  They didn't even want one.  But the militia was entirely separate.  It was there not only for the common defense, but to protect the people in case those in power turned the army on the people.  Now what an armed group is going to do against Cruise Missiles I can't imagine.  But that's no reason to give up your rights as Americans.  I understand in Florida they can kick your door in if you have kids and smoke ciggies in the house.  Thin end of the wedge.

Nothing like being a good patriotic American PARANOID, is there, T?

I wake up everyday all worried that the military taking over the country.  Yeah, that could happen any day!  But you know all those militias will stop them, and private gun owners too.  Oh, they'll be real brave when the US army comes knocking at the door.

-- Rory

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/10/02 4:52:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

Generalize this, you conservative!

I'm an independent.


An independent conservative!<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/10/02 6:25:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

Are Krueger, Taylor and Rory all stoned, sitting around the lounge room or
something?

Yeah, and you missed out on some good bud, bud!<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/10/02 6:36:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

Ken and I were talking on the phone the other night and we commented that it must be a unique Aussie thing that you never discuss politics and religion unless you want a shit fight on your hands.

Just seems common sense to me.

Michael


Sometimes it's good to let the shit fly, it lets you know people better.

-- Rory<.html

--- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:

> You worry me sometimes (OK, OFTEN!) Patrick.
>
> No I don't think all Brit-descended Aussies should "pack up" and go back to the UK, leaving the entire continent of Australia to the descendants of those who were conquered/pushed aside. Nor do the Aboriginals (generally speaking).

*** So what DO you suggest should be the "solution" to the Aborigine
situation? You "feel" their pain, like Clinton's famous phrase, but
what GOOD does that do without a policy to act on to remedy the
situation? It's like feeling sorry that some emaciated child in
Ethiopia is starving to death... all the while standing next to him or
her and eating a sandwich. A lot of good your feeling sorry does for
him/her! Feeling sorry doesn't solve any problems unless you ACT on
that feeling. If you don't think the "conquered" Aborigines should be
given the land back, then WHAT should be done INSTEAD?

> Do you think all Americans should pack up and go home? You really are a fucking freak.

*** No, I do NOT think all Americans should leave America--where the
hell did you get that idea? I asked IF YOU THOUGHT THAT BRIT-DESCENDED
AUSSIES SHOULD LEAVE AUSTRALIA as ONE POSSIBLE "REMEDY" FOR THE
ABORIGINE COMPLAINTS. I never said that the Brit-Aussies SHOULD leave:
I asked if YOU thought that, you moron! I don't hold you (i.e. the
current generation of Aussies) responsible for the actions of your
ancestors; neither do I feel any personal guilt regarding the
treatment of Native Americans by the ancestors of the current
generation of Americans. When I posed my question to you, it was meant
(as any rational person would realize) as a RHETORICAL question. Since
a "Yes" answer is OBVIOUSLY impractical and impracticable, you should
have figured out that WHATEVER answer you might have to remedy the
situation should be coughed up and explained (i.e. "IF Aussies should
NOT leave Australia, then what SHOULD they do?").

> What's your point about slavery? Are you saying Americans are superior to Aussies because you "freed" slaves so you could hunt them down and lynch them? Because you blew the fuck out of each other and at the last minute decided to claim the Civil War was to free the slaves? Fuck off idiot.

*** I didn't say that Americans are superior to Aussies, you jerk! I
pointed out that AFTER the Civil War (in which a higher percentage of
the population was killed off fighting over--among several things--the
issue of Slavery, than in any other war America has ever fought), one
of the remedies that was put forth AND ACTED UPON was the repatriation
of former slaves to their mother continent, in a NEW nation called
"Liberia" in honor of that new Liberty for which hundreds of thousands
of non-slaves gave up their lives. For you to suggest that the white
Union soldiers "freed" the slaves so that they "could hunt them down
and lynch them" is a slander only a complete fool would belch out of
his pie hole. That's like saying that MacDonald (in CONQUEST) lets
Caesar go, after their revelatory conversation in that cylindrical
tunnel, just so that he could be hunted down.

America INHERITED a society which had institutionalized slavery
CENTURIES earlier--and it took the loss of AMERICAN lives (in the
Civil War) to BEGIN to put an end to that wretched institution. One of
the GOOD things to come out of Christianity was the anti-slavery
movement, fought with fanatic tenacity by John Brown (et al.)--albeit
Deists like Benjamin Franklin a century earlier pioneered the moral
stand against that "peculiar institution" (as genteel southerners used
to call it). It was impossible for America's founders to eradicate
Slavery when they were making their separation from the Empire of
Great Britain (though NOT for lack of trying, since the first draft of
Jefferson's "Declaration" called for an end to slavery; in order to
FIRST achieve Independence, the anti-slavery faction had to compromise
on the Slavery issue... but AFTER establishing "a new nation,
conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men
are created equal", THEN the anti-slavery forces got to work
marginalizing the practice of Slavery, to the point where the Southern
states rebelled against the "attack" on their economic foundation. The
Civil War WAS about Slavery, you dolt! The ONLY real difference
between the Confederate Constitution and the U.S. Constitution was the
attempt to enshrine the institution of Slavery for the "Confederate
States of America"--that was the issue that the South fought the North
over. You are under the boneheaded belief that the North & the South
"blew the fuck out of each other" for WHAT? For NO reason at all? Just
for the fun of it? And then "at the last minute" CLAIMED they'd fought
the war in order to free the slaves? What a load of horseshit!

> Yes it is a touchy subject Patrick and you can expect the same reaction from any Aussie you tell your stupid story to. They will say "Typical ignorant fuck who thinks the answer to everything is re-naming it New America".

> And that's where I stopped reading your idiotic post. You like the conflict, so rather than fuel your hard-on, I'll go back to deleting your posts just like many other members of this group who would be a lot happier if you would "pack up" and go back to the real world.

*** Ah, you claim--yet again--to speak on behalf of "many other
members of this group"... like who? There's you, and probably James &
Mlccougar, who are averse to my "scenario" for the POTA saga. Oh, some
of the others might occasionally POLITELY haggle with me over certain
POTA details and interpretations, but that's a good thing. Stimulating
conversations are enjoyable, and I like having them--but discussing
ANYTHING with you is pointless, I can see now, since you can't read
"the king's" simple English. And after misreading something, you barf
up a nonsequitor, laced with insulting expletives. A couple of months
ago I tried to bury the hatchet with you, but you still got a bug up
your ass over your loathing of my "unflubbing" POTA scenario, and
despite the fact that EVERYONE who posts regularly on this site KNOWS
you don't like it, you STILL whine like a baby over & over & over &
over & over & over... as if they aren't already aware of your
opposition to my plotting ideas for my POTA project.
And you rarely if ever have anything interesting to say about POTA to
begin with! I troll through your useless posts in vain, looking for
ANY insight you may have about my favorite movie... and roll my eyes
and sigh when I see YET AGAIN a typical half-assed diatribe, aimed
ALWAYS at me.

> When you say you don't have your health, are you referring to MENTAL health?
> Michael

*** Speaking of nonsequitors... what the hell are you blabbing about
here? I don't recall having ever said that I do NOT have my health.
Your deluded brain is hearing things nobody is saying--I recommend you
see an exorcist. You're a "believer", right? Maybe if you believe hard
enough, and click your heels together, you'll find yourself back in
the land of the sane! The power of Christ compels you, and there's no
place like home, Bruce. Ask the Wizard for a Clue, first, though.

Patrick

> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@y...]
> > Sent: Saturday, 9 November 2002 3:35
> > To: pota@y...
> > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Australia's "Neo-American" future...
> >
> >
> > --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > > Not sure about the Aboriginal name for the country, but I relate to their outrage at our invasion and name change. Why then do you find it so difficult to fathom that I would be offended by your scenario? Do you think it was nice of the Brits to kill off whole tribes and take/re-name the land? I would think this is one of History's lessons that we would learn from (as the Aboriginals are teaching us right now in the courts by re-claiming their land under Native Title). Are you trying to justify or apologise?
> > >
> > > Is that the little bit of Cartman coming out in you again when you say "I've never claimed to be a "know-it-all"."? That is pretty funny. Or maybe you have been falsely accused....
> > >
> > > Michael
> >
> > *** If you "relate" to Aboriginal peoples' outrage, are you willing to "act" on that sentiment? Do you think that all Brit-descended Aussies should "pack up" and go back to the UK, leaving the entire continent of Australia to the descendants of those who were conquered/pushed aside? If you aren't willing to act on that guilt-of- the-past, then does your sentiment really mean anything? At least when slavery was eradicated in America (after the bloodiest war we've ever fought), former slaves were given the chance to "repatriate" to their mother continent, to live in a country all their own in liberty--the country "Liberia", named in honor of that blood-won freedom.
> > There's talk, currently, from guys like the "Reverend" Al Sharpton (and others) who think that they--the descendants of slaves--should reap financial benefits even though they themselves have never been slaves--and they want "whitey" to foot the bill as "reparations" even though not one single white American living today has ever owned a black slave!
> > It's a touchy subject, and the "race" issue--it seems--will always be the springboard for dissention among people who insist on being "Hyphenated Americans" rather than just "Americans".
> >
> > By "offended by [my] scenario", I assume you're talking about the notion of American survivors landing on a pole-shifted Australia & renaming it "New America". Your "offense" at the notion doesn't make much sense to me, because it's NOT as if I'm advocating that such a scenario take place--it's a FICTIONAL portrayal of a group of FICTIONAL people who advance an agenda all their own. I'm not saying that Australia SHOULD be repopulated by Americans who rename the continent & the landforms/rivers/lakes/etc. My novel's scenario merely portrays this all-too-common sort of thing happening YET AGAIN in the "history" of the Earth. Perhaps you'd prefer it if, in a different scenario, Australia too is nuked into oblivion (as is North America, Europe, etc.), and that the "New York City" picture in Farrow's book refers to some OTHER place, elsewhere on the planet... just NOT in the radioactive wasteland that was once your home country.
> >
> > Incidentally, one of the reasons I thought to modify a post-nuke-war Australia as the place where a futuristic-looking "New York City" might exist in 2503 A.D., is that Australia and the contiguous 48 states of the U.S. are nearly antipodal. I don't know if you've ever read any Dante, but in his pre-Columbus view of geography, Jerusalem lies at the center of the inhabited hemisphere of land, and at the antipodal location, in the center of the hemisphere of ocean, lies the island mountain of Purgatory (just south of the real French Polynesian islands in the South Pacific Ocean). By juxtaposing two places on opposite sides of the World, Dante was able to compare and contrast two different "world views" (one a "this world" view, and the other a "next world" view); similarly, I got to imagining a "New America" that represented MY view of how Americanism should be developed for the sake of the Future (Jeffersonian Republicanism, Constitutional government, pro-Science humanism, etc.), as opposed to the bad trends at work in the halls of power in REAL America (divisive & corrupt 2-party system, unconstitutional gov't, anti-Science/pro-"Faith" & Religion advocacy, ultimately leading towards the Totalitarianism portrayed in CONQUEST). By having the Nuke war "clean the slate" (so to speak), rendering North America a radioactive shambles, I was going to have "expatriate" American scientists (in a Science station at the L5 lagrangian position of the Earth-Moon system) descend to the most viable place (physically) where they could build THEIR idea of a "more perfect" America--a "New America": the continent that no longer dwells in the southern hemisphere (due to the displacement of the Earth's crust)--Australia. These "Scientists" (as the old holographic man in "The Legacy" calls themselves), advocating a pro-Science view rather than a religion-based one, would develop a space-faring culture, purging the "sins" of Irrationality from all those who wish to become Offworlders... in other words, a nontheistic kind of "Purgatory" where Humanity extends its presence into the literal "Heavens" of Outer Space, but NOT by toadying to the dubious morality espoused by the official Church(es), as in Dante's conception of Salvation.
> >
> > It was Australia's near-antipodal position on the Globe (in relation to the United States of America), and the "almost"-Dantean symbolism of that geodetic location which prompted me to make IT the place where that picture of early-26th Century "New York City" was taken--in a "New America", as contrasted with the nuke-devastated ruins of "Old America" on the North American continent, and the NYC seen as the "wasteland" Forbidden Zone in PLANET and BENEATH. What Dante's island mountain of Purgatory symbolizes (in contrast with the "Old World" centered on the "holy" city of Jerusalem), the island continent of New America (once-Australia) symbolizes, in contrast with the ruins of Old America, which has returned to Monarchism (Caesar's rule), Theocracy (the priesthood of 'Lawgiver' types), and a Race-based social hierarchy (Apes in charge, humans subjugated).

> > Patrick
> >
> > P.S. I first became interested in the works of Dante after realizing that BATTLE FOR THE PLANET OF THE APES owes a great deal to Dante's "Divine Comedy". Caesar's trip to the Forbidden City, accompanied by an orangutan named Virgil (who knows "everything about everything") is referred to (by MacDonald) as a trip to "the Hell my forefathers talked about"--BATTLE is "Caesar's INFERNO" in a way. Dante (in his INFERNO) was accompanied by the ghost of the Roman poet Virgil, who symbolizes that Wisdom which can be obtained without divine assistance. Ultimately, such "human" Wisdom can only take Dante so far in his spiritual journey (to the top of Mt. Purgatory); ultimately, too, the Wisdom the orangutan Virgil helps Caesar to acquire can only take him so far... or perhaps not. After all, it was after the blood, sweat, and tears of the "voyages of discovery" which proved Dante's physical conception of the World was wrong; the similar scientific discoveries of Galileo & Copernicus proved Dante's Ptolemaic conception of the Heavens to be equally wrong. Can "Science" out-do the Theology-based conception of Society advocated by medieval thinkers like Dante (and Aquinas & Augustine, etc.)? Well, I (for one) think so... hence my "scenario" regarding your home continent/country.

--- In pota@y..., "Alan Maxwell" <alan@a...> wrote:

> "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:
> > P.S. As long as we're wondering about the "meanings" of the various Net-names ("SNs"), what the heck does "veetus" stand for?
>
> It was a character in a cartoon strip by Jeff, which appeared in the Ape Chronicles fanzine.

> Alan

*** Ah! Thanks. Nice to know. Some day I'm gonna have to see about
getting all the back issues of "Ape Chronicles" I don't yet have.

Patrick

--- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:

> I for one would like to see and introduce new species of apes, Babboon,
> Madrills, Gibbons, etc., but still keep the styles traditional
>
> I for one, find the baboons and gibbons idea ridiculous, and the only thing that could have made the film worse. But for the sake of argument, just off the top of my head, I think the series should be a combination of the films and the book, with some grudging acceptance by ape society, with little plots and conspiracies cooked up by the orangs and gorillas.

*** I'd like to see the female orangutans & gorillas make their
presence felt, in SOME way. There were a fair amount of female chimps
in PLANET (etc.), but where were the other ape females? Zaius mentions
having a granddaughter... so, he must have (or have had) a wife who
bore him at least one child who either begot or bore that
granddaughter. Do the orang males lock up their females? Keep 'em in a
seraglio, underground?
Do gorilla females ever participate in the Hunts? Zira's comments to
the Bay Area Women's Club, on the male chauvinism of the Ape society,
suggest that females generally are marginalized in the career-seeking
avenues--she being the only real exception that we get to see in
PLANET & BENEATH. But what about during the "Citizens' Council"
meeting? Why is that a "males only" get-together? Don't the female
orangs & gorillas have ANY say regarding their government's policies?

Patrick

--- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:

> In a message dated 11/9/2002 3:20:24 PM Central Standard Time,
> Haristas@a... writes:
>
> > Those things are monkeys!!!!
> >
> Well, not exactly. Gibbons are in the Great Ape family. But I have no interest in anything they might say. Isn't interesting that this idea keeps coming from people in the makeup biz. Sounds like they want some funding for this little makeup proj. And where are you going to put the baboons tail? Down one trouser leg? Or sticking out the back? Yes, teenage boys across the country will be falling in love with the endearing quality of the lead female Mandrill.

*** Marvel's "TERROR ON THE PLANET OF THE APES" series had a human
character named 'Lightsmith' riding around in his "Wonder Wagon" full
of artifacts from pre-Catastrophe times, and he had a gibbon side-kick
named Gilbert, who sorta looked like a chimpanzee (the way Mike Ploog
drew him). I don't consider those Marvel comic stories to be "canon",
but I did enjoy them--especially that Lightsmith part of the
storyline, since it re-introduced SATIRE into the POTA world. Up until
then, "TERROR" was merely an allegorical POTA update on the KKK, with
Brutus' "Ape Supremacists" wreaking havoc. Lightsmith's explanations
for the artifacts in his Wonder Wagon were hilariously satirical.

Patrick

--- In pota@y..., "Alan Maxwell" <alan@a...> wrote:

> Rory <Haristas@a...> wrote:
> > I'm not an Aussie, but I do believe you UKers and the Aussie share the same PAL video system, however I think that for DVD Australia is Region 4, and Britian is Region 2, so the damn players might not except the discs!
>
> I know that (although I have seen a number of discs that are just R2/4 - presumably in these cases since they're both PAL they just sell the same discs in UK & Oz to save cost). However, the regional thing wouldn't be an issue - what I was meaning was that he would order the discs from an Oz site and have them sent to an Oz address and therefore for all intents and purposes it wouldn't be an international order.
>
> Alan

*** When I went to the UK/France/Germany a year & a half ago, I
brought along my Remington shaver; I had to plug it into an adapter
first and THEN plug the adapter into the wall sockets, but it worked
fine. So... might it not be feasible to purchase a US DVD player, and
DVDs from the USA, using those voltage/amperage/wattage adapter
thingeys to be the "go-betweens" for the machine and the electrical
socket?
If you'd rather not buy outside of Australia, I'd understand the
reluctance (there's a "Made in the USA" movement which tries to
promote the buying of American-made products by Americans, too, so
it's probably the same sort of thing over there).
Still, might not my suggestion be technically feasible, at the least?

Patrick

--- In pota@y..., "Alan Maxwell" <alan@a...> wrote:

> <mlccougar@a...> wrote:
> > Have Burke and Virdon land in the world of 3978 and be on a rescue mission to find Taylor and his crew... I know we'd have to be very "creative" in getting them there, because in Beneath we already have Brent & the Skipper... One way we could get around it is to make them part of the same crew as the Beneath rescue mission...
>
> I suppose a good way of doing this would be to suggest that, as you said, Virdon/Burke and Skipper/Brent would be part of the same mission, but also be part of the same mission as Taylor too. It makes sense if you assume that the three crafts were in actual fact three shuttlepod type things that were sent from a larger mothership. What do people think of this idea?
>
> Alan

*** I think it's a BRILLIANT idea! But beware! The mere MENTION of the
word "mothership" will get your head chopped off by the anti-Heresy
bloody baboons on this site!

Patrick

.htmlIn a message dated 11/10/02 10:44:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

Do gorilla females ever participate in the Hunts?

Read the book!<.html

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 11/10/02 5:02:40 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> LordTZer0@A... writes:
>
>
> > The militia was never the standing army. They didn't even want one. But the militia was entirely separate. It was there not only for the common defense, but to protect the people in case those in power turned the army on the people. Now what an armed group is going to do against Cruise Missiles I can't imagine. But that's no reason to give up your rights as Americans. I understand in Florida they can kick your door in if you have kids and smoke ciggies in the house. Thin end of the wedge.
>
> Nothing like being a good patriotic American PARANOID, is there, T?
>
> I wake up everyday all worried that the military taking over the country. Yeah, that could happen any day! But you know all those militias will stop them, and private gun owners too. Oh, they'll be real brave when the US army comes knocking at the door.
>
> -- Rory

*** Hmmm... y'ever hear of "Ruby Ridge", Rory? The US Gov't got enough
bad press after that BATF fiasco (and the Waco tragedy), that they've
gone out of their way to try to calm the "paranoid" fears of the
"militia" Fringe groups out there, who saw those events as wake-up
calls. Remember the "Freemen" in Montana? They Gov't learned its
lesson, and THAT situation didn't end up with corpses littered all
over the place.
It ain't really Paranoia if they actually ARE out to get you!

Just to throw in a POTA tie-in: it was only AFTER Taylor got access to
a firearm that he could retain his dignity. "If there's any shooting,
Doctor, you'll be the first to go--you can COUNT on it!"

Patrick

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 11/10/02 10:44:49 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
>
> > Do gorilla females ever participate in the Hunts?
>
> Read the book!

*** I was GOING to mention the book... but this thread is about
further imagined sequels to the MOVIES.

.htmlIn a message dated 11/10/02 11:23:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

Hmmm... y'ever hear of "Ruby Ridge", Rory?

And what lessons were learned from that?   When the government comes a knocking, just open the door.  If you try to fight authority you're doomed to lose.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlMr. Whitty,

I seen your "request" about the "faded" paragraph from the posting I made on the above mentioned subject... Per your request, here it is in it's entirety:  

I do like the fact that you'd want it set in the "world" of the first two movies, although you said you're not opposed to a bigger 'n better version of the tv series either... Maybe it could be a combination of the two like Rod Serling's scripts seemed to... Have Burke and Virdon land in the world of 3978 and be on a rescue mission to find Taylor and his crew... I know we'd have to be very "creative" in getting them there, because in Beneath we already have Brent & the Skipper... One way we could get around it is to make them part of the same crew as the Beneath rescue mission... We could take some creative liberties and say that while Brent was taking care of their ailing commander, Burke and Virdon were off exploring their new "home" and were looking for a place that'd be more inhabitable than the desert in which they crashed... Or we could just say the events of Beneath didn't (or wouldn't) happen, as Serling's two scripts did, and then Burke and Virdon (or, if you prefer Virdon and Kovak) would be the rescue team, rather than Brent & Skipper... We could also take another cue from Serling's scripts and include Galen, as well as Zaius and Ursus... As for story idea/plots, I have none right now, but I do think I'd like to see it stay with the (as Jeff called it) "Apes on horses" society...

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/10/2002 9:44:35 AM Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

*** I'd like to see the female orangutans & gorillas make their presence felt, in SOME way. There were a fair amount of female chimps in PLANET (, etc.), but where were the other ape females? Zaius mentions having a granddaughter ... so, he must have (or have had) a wife who bore him at least one child who either begot or bore that granddaughter. Do the orang males lock up their females? Keep 'em in a seraglio, underground?

I agree with you on this one... I too have often wondered why the presence of female orangs and gorillas was left as it was, as though they are/were non existent... (I'm sure the reality is that they just didn't want to bother creating outfits and additional makeups since there was only one main female per film, and that was always a chimp... Yes, in CONQUEST the book store orang is supposed to be female, but other than that one, that's it... And why they DIDN'T include a female gorilla in the funeral scene in PLANET is beyond me, especially since they had the outfit made!) Could we speculate that the orangs are so conservative that they treat their females as some Middle Eastern countries treat theirs? Basically "kept under wraps" so to speak? I am not sure how I'd handle the orangutan situation as far as that goes, and I can't say I even totally like the idea myself, but it's one way we could deal with them and their lack of female presence. As for the female gorillas, I'd picture them as being more of the "stay at home" type... Caring for the offspring, and doting on their warrior husbands after successful hunts and "battles" against the dreaded humans... Just off the top of my head ideas, which are of course open to criticism...

<.html

Gibbons would be all right...how about a big Bonobo orgy
scene??

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 11/9/02 3:02:24 PM Eastern Standard
Time,
> mlccougar@a... writes:
>
>
> > In a message dated 11/9/2002 9:16:50 AM Central Standard
Time,
> > apeman@a... writes:
> >
> >
> > >> I for one would like to see and introduce new species of
apes, Babboon,
> >> Madrills, Gibbons, etc., but still keep the styles traditional
> >
> >
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!
> >
>
> I
AGREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Keep your God damn monkeys to yourself! GOD DAMMIT!!!!!

Lancelot Link rocks....but Playmate of the Apes is
horrendous.....not even erotic....just a waste of time and money
(about 12 bucks which i thimk that's what their budget was!!!!)))

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 11/9/02 5:10:05 PM Eastern Standard
Time, menluth@y...
> writes:
>
>
> > Saru no Gundan - Time of the Apes
> >
> > Menluth.
> >
> >
>
> Has ANYONE here seen "Playmates of the Apes"? I think that
if we have to
> include "Time of the Apes" then we might as well include
"Playmates." And
> I'm even thinking it's about time we all here embraced
"Lancelot Link --
> Secret Chimp" as part of the Apes' canon. I'd fit it in after
ESCAPE but
> just before CONQUEST.
>
> Anybody got the entire "Lancelot Link" on tape? How about "Me
and the
> Chimp"?
>
> -- Rory

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: mlccougar@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 12:20 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Up-lifting topic, albeit pure fantasy

In a message dated 11/9/2002 1:16:32 PM Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

Bill Blake said as the TV show was going down for the third time, the producers enlisted Gene Roddenbury to revamp it and make it more like the movies, including characters like Cornelius and Zira. Bill says he and Paula Crist auditioned for the parts at Gene's house and Gene liked what he saw (I've seen a letter of recommendation for them signed by Gene). Anyway, apparently that was being considered.

I seem to remember reading that bit about getting Roddenbury involved somewhere else before, but that's not what I wanted to comment on... I wanted to ask if Bill mentioned anything else about it as far as content... I mean my guess is even though he auditioned, he probably wouldn't know all the ideas being kicked around by them... But when he auditioned, did he just go in and do a bit of Cornelius from Planet, or were they working from a script of the "revamped" ideas? Does he know if they were planning on still keeping the three central characters, as well as the "villainous" Urko and Zaius, and setting the series in that world of the original Planet, or were they going to scrap all the "new" characters and just go back to square one (i.e. Cornelius, Zira...)

I wouldn't be surprised if Fox tries to return to the roots on the next "reimagination".

All I'll say to this is: That's what they shoulda done in the first place!!!!
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

I don't know...Patrick, what do you think of that idea? - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Maxwell" <alan@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 4:23 AM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Up-lifting topic, albeit pure fantasy


> <mlccougar@...> wrote:
> > Have Burke and Virdon land in the world of
> > 3978 and be on a rescue mission to find Taylor and his crew... I
> know we'd
> > have to be very "creative" in getting them there, because in Beneath
> we
> > already have Brent & the Skipper... One way we could get around it
> is to make
> > them part of the same crew as the Beneath rescue mission...
>
> I suppose a good way of doing this would be to suggest that, as you
> said, Virdon/Burke and Skipper/Brent would be part of the same
> mission, but also be part of the same mission as Taylor too. It makes
> sense if you assume that the three crafts were in actual fact three
> shuttlepod type things that were sent from a larger mothership. What
> do people think of this idea?
>
> Alan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

It's certainly not unprecedented in our society. Lookat how chicks, er, I
mean women are treated in the Middle East. They treat broads, er, I mean
women, like property. Hmmm...- - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 7:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Up-lifting topic, albeit pure fantasy


> --- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> > I for one would like to see and introduce new species of apes, Babboon,
> > Madrills, Gibbons, etc., but still keep the styles traditional
> >
> > I for one, find the baboons and gibbons idea ridiculous, and the only
thing that could have made the film worse. But for the sake of argument,
just off the top of my head, I think the series should be a combination of
the films and the book, with some grudging acceptance by ape society, with
little plots and conspiracies cooked up by the orangs and gorillas.
>
> *** I'd like to see the female orangutans & gorillas make their
> presence felt, in SOME way. There were a fair amount of female chimps
> in PLANET (etc.), but where were the other ape females? Zaius mentions
> having a granddaughter... so, he must have (or have had) a wife who
> bore him at least one child who either begot or bore that
> granddaughter. Do the orang males lock up their females? Keep 'em in a
> seraglio, underground?
> Do gorilla females ever participate in the Hunts? Zira's comments to
> the Bay Area Women's Club, on the male chauvinism of the Ape society,
> suggest that females generally are marginalized in the career-seeking
> avenues--she being the only real exception that we get to see in
> PLANET & BENEATH. But what about during the "Citizens' Council"
> meeting? Why is that a "males only" get-together? Don't the female
> orangs & gorillas have ANY say regarding their government's policies?
>
> Patrick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

There's really no reason not to include monkeys except personal taste.
Presumably ape intelligence is man-made with genetics, etc. I think we agree
the apes wouldn't evolve that way on their own. It makes sense that humans
would try out these genetic experiments on monkeys and work their way
up.- - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 7:50 AM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Up-lifting topic, albeit pure fantasy


> --- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> > In a message dated 11/9/2002 3:20:24 PM Central Standard Time,
> > Haristas@a... writes:
> >
> > > Those things are monkeys!!!!
> > >
> > Well, not exactly. Gibbons are in the Great Ape family. But I have no
interest in anything they might say. Isn't interesting that this idea keeps
coming from people in the makeup biz. Sounds like they want some funding
for this little makeup proj. And where are you going to put the baboons
tail? Down one trouser leg? Or sticking out the back? Yes, teenage boys
across the country will be falling in love with the endearing quality of the
lead female Mandrill.
>
> *** Marvel's "TERROR ON THE PLANET OF THE APES" series had a human
> character named 'Lightsmith' riding around in his "Wonder Wagon" full
> of artifacts from pre-Catastrophe times, and he had a gibbon side-kick
> named Gilbert, who sorta looked like a chimpanzee (the way Mike Ploog
> drew him). I don't consider those Marvel comic stories to be "canon",
> but I did enjoy them--especially that Lightsmith part of the
> storyline, since it re-introduced SATIRE into the POTA world. Up until
> then, "TERROR" was merely an allegorical POTA update on the KKK, with
> Brutus' "Ape Supremacists" wreaking havoc. Lightsmith's explanations
> for the artifacts in his Wonder Wagon were hilariously satirical.
>
> Patrick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 8:26 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Apes Guns...

In a message dated 11/10/02 11:23:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

Hmmm... y'ever hear of "Ruby Ridge", Rory?

And what lessons were learned from that?   When the government comes a knocking, just open the door.  If you try to fight authority you're doomed to lose.

-- Rory
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

<.html

Patrick, you did say in a post about a week ago about your health not
being 100% but that was none of my business asking about it.
My opinion is, what's done is done. There's been plenty 'o tragedy in the
past, but those who are alive today who weren't directly involved in it
should get on with their lives. Just as there's a movement that descendants
of slaves in America should be paid reparations by the government. Hogwash!
I can see reparations for Holocaust victims because that's the recent past.
But for 2 centuries ago? As for the aborigines (and the American Indians),
we live in a modern world. None of us chose the world we live in. I believe
in freedom and there should be room for people to live like their ancestors
if they choose. But enough of this "My land! Gimme, gimme, gimme!" Look at
what's going on in the Middle East. I reflect back on something George Lucas
said in a speech at the Oscars in tribute to director Akira Kurosawa, saying
the theme of his films is "Why can't people be happier together?" I'd like
to buy the world a Coke. - - - Jeff

P.S.: I think Whitty referred to the lynchings and stuff in the South
post -Civil War (indeed, post-19th Century), not freeing the slaves so they
could hunt them like hares. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 7:22 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] MW's Inability to Make a Reasoned Argument,
Resorting to Expletive-laced Insults


> --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > You worry me sometimes (OK, OFTEN!) Patrick.
> >
> > No I don't think all Brit-descended Aussies should "pack up" and go back
to the UK, leaving the entire continent of Australia to the descendants of
those who were conquered/pushed aside. Nor do the Aboriginals (generally
speaking).
>
> *** So what DO you suggest should be the "solution" to the Aborigine
> situation? You "feel" their pain, like Clinton's famous phrase, but
> what GOOD does that do without a policy to act on to remedy the
> situation? It's like feeling sorry that some emaciated child in
> Ethiopia is starving to death... all the while standing next to him or
> her and eating a sandwich. A lot of good your feeling sorry does for
> him/her! Feeling sorry doesn't solve any problems unless you ACT on
> that feeling. If you don't think the "conquered" Aborigines should be
> given the land back, then WHAT should be done INSTEAD?
>
> > Do you think all Americans should pack up and go home? You really are a
fucking freak.
>
> *** No, I do NOT think all Americans should leave America--where the
> hell did you get that idea? I asked IF YOU THOUGHT THAT BRIT-DESCENDED
> AUSSIES SHOULD LEAVE AUSTRALIA as ONE POSSIBLE "REMEDY" FOR THE
> ABORIGINE COMPLAINTS. I never said that the Brit-Aussies SHOULD leave:
> I asked if YOU thought that, you moron! I don't hold you (i.e. the
> current generation of Aussies) responsible for the actions of your
> ancestors; neither do I feel any personal guilt regarding the
> treatment of Native Americans by the ancestors of the current
> generation of Americans. When I posed my question to you, it was meant
> (as any rational person would realize) as a RHETORICAL question. Since
> a "Yes" answer is OBVIOUSLY impractical and impracticable, you should
> have figured out that WHATEVER answer you might have to remedy the
> situation should be coughed up and explained (i.e. "IF Aussies should
> NOT leave Australia, then what SHOULD they do?").
>
> > What's your point about slavery? Are you saying Americans are superior
to Aussies because you "freed" slaves so you could hunt them down and lynch
them? Because you blew the fuck out of each other and at the last minute
decided to claim the Civil War was to free the slaves? Fuck off idiot.
>
> *** I didn't say that Americans are superior to Aussies, you jerk! I
> pointed out that AFTER the Civil War (in which a higher percentage of
> the population was killed off fighting over--among several things--the
> issue of Slavery, than in any other war America has ever fought), one
> of the remedies that was put forth AND ACTED UPON was the repatriation
> of former slaves to their mother continent, in a NEW nation called
> "Liberia" in honor of that new Liberty for which hundreds of thousands
> of non-slaves gave up their lives. For you to suggest that the white
> Union soldiers "freed" the slaves so that they "could hunt them down
> and lynch them" is a slander only a complete fool would belch out of
> his pie hole. That's like saying that MacDonald (in CONQUEST) lets
> Caesar go, after their revelatory conversation in that cylindrical
> tunnel, just so that he could be hunted down.
>
> America INHERITED a society which had institutionalized slavery
> CENTURIES earlier--and it took the loss of AMERICAN lives (in the
> Civil War) to BEGIN to put an end to that wretched institution. One of
> the GOOD things to come out of Christianity was the anti-slavery
> movement, fought with fanatic tenacity by John Brown (et al.)--albeit
> Deists like Benjamin Franklin a century earlier pioneered the moral
> stand against that "peculiar institution" (as genteel southerners used
> to call it). It was impossible for America's founders to eradicate
> Slavery when they were making their separation from the Empire of
> Great Britain (though NOT for lack of trying, since the first draft of
> Jefferson's "Declaration" called for an end to slavery; in order to
> FIRST achieve Independence, the anti-slavery faction had to compromise
> on the Slavery issue... but AFTER establishing "a new nation,
> conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men
> are created equal", THEN the anti-slavery forces got to work
> marginalizing the practice of Slavery, to the point where the Southern
> states rebelled against the "attack" on their economic foundation. The
> Civil War WAS about Slavery, you dolt! The ONLY real difference
> between the Confederate Constitution and the U.S. Constitution was the
> attempt to enshrine the institution of Slavery for the "Confederate
> States of America"--that was the issue that the South fought the North
> over. You are under the boneheaded belief that the North & the South
> "blew the fuck out of each other" for WHAT? For NO reason at all? Just
> for the fun of it? And then "at the last minute" CLAIMED they'd fought
> the war in order to free the slaves? What a load of horseshit!
>
> > Yes it is a touchy subject Patrick and you can expect the same reaction
from any Aussie you tell your stupid story to. They will say "Typical
ignorant fuck who thinks the answer to everything is re-naming it New
America".
>
> > And that's where I stopped reading your idiotic post. You like the
conflict, so rather than fuel your hard-on, I'll go back to deleting your
posts just like many other members of this group who would be a lot happier
if you would "pack up" and go back to the real world.
>
> *** Ah, you claim--yet again--to speak on behalf of "many other
> members of this group"... like who? There's you, and probably James &
> Mlccougar, who are averse to my "scenario" for the POTA saga. Oh, some
> of the others might occasionally POLITELY haggle with me over certain
> POTA details and interpretations, but that's a good thing. Stimulating
> conversations are enjoyable, and I like having them--but discussing
> ANYTHING with you is pointless, I can see now, since you can't read
> "the king's" simple English. And after misreading something, you barf
> up a nonsequitor, laced with insulting expletives. A couple of months
> ago I tried to bury the hatchet with you, but you still got a bug up
> your ass over your loathing of my "unflubbing" POTA scenario, and
> despite the fact that EVERYONE who posts regularly on this site KNOWS
> you don't like it, you STILL whine like a baby over & over & over &
> over & over & over... as if they aren't already aware of your
> opposition to my plotting ideas for my POTA project.
> And you rarely if ever have anything interesting to say about POTA to
> begin with! I troll through your useless posts in vain, looking for
> ANY insight you may have about my favorite movie... and roll my eyes
> and sigh when I see YET AGAIN a typical half-assed diatribe, aimed
> ALWAYS at me.
>
> > When you say you don't have your health, are you referring to MENTAL
health?
> > Michael
>
> *** Speaking of nonsequitors... what the hell are you blabbing about
> here? I don't recall having ever said that I do NOT have my health.
> Your deluded brain is hearing things nobody is saying--I recommend you
> see an exorcist. You're a "believer", right? Maybe if you believe hard
> enough, and click your heels together, you'll find yourself back in
> the land of the sane! The power of Christ compels you, and there's no
> place like home, Bruce. Ask the Wizard for a Clue, first, though.
>
> Patrick
>
>
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@y...]
> > > Sent: Saturday, 9 November 2002 3:35
> > > To: pota@y...
> > > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Australia's "Neo-American" future...
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > > > Not sure about the Aboriginal name for the country, but I relate to
their outrage at our invasion and name change. Why then do you find it so
difficult to fathom that I would be offended by your scenario? Do you think
it was nice of the Brits to kill off whole tribes and take/re-name the land?
I would think this is one of History's lessons that we would learn from (as
the Aboriginals are teaching us right now in the courts by re-claiming their
land under Native Title). Are you trying to justify or apologise?
> > > >
> > > > Is that the little bit of Cartman coming out in you again when you
say "I've never claimed to be a "know-it-all"."? That is pretty funny. Or
maybe you have been falsely accused....
> > > >
> > > > Michael
> > >
> > > *** If you "relate" to Aboriginal peoples' outrage, are you willing to
"act" on that sentiment? Do you think that all Brit-descended Aussies should
"pack up" and go back to the UK, leaving the entire continent of Australia
to the descendants of those who were conquered/pushed aside? If you aren't
willing to act on that guilt-of- the-past, then does your sentiment really
mean anything? At least when slavery was eradicated in America (after the
bloodiest war we've ever fought), former slaves were given the chance to
"repatriate" to their mother continent, to live in a country all their own
in liberty--the country "Liberia", named in honor of that blood-won freedom.
> > > There's talk, currently, from guys like the "Reverend" Al Sharpton
(and others) who think that they--the descendants of slaves--should reap
financial benefits even though they themselves have never been slaves--and
they want "whitey" to foot the bill as "reparations" even though not one
single white American living today has ever owned a black slave!
> > > It's a touchy subject, and the "race" issue--it seems--will always be
the springboard for dissention among people who insist on being "Hyphenated
Americans" rather than just "Americans".
> > >
> > > By "offended by [my] scenario", I assume you're talking about the
notion of American survivors landing on a pole-shifted Australia & renaming
it "New America". Your "offense" at the notion doesn't make much sense to
me, because it's NOT as if I'm advocating that such a scenario take
place--it's a FICTIONAL portrayal of a group of FICTIONAL people who advance
an agenda all their own. I'm not saying that Australia SHOULD be repopulated
by Americans who rename the continent & the landforms/rivers/lakes/etc. My
novel's scenario merely portrays this all-too-common sort of thing happening
YET AGAIN in the "history" of the Earth. Perhaps you'd prefer it if, in a
different scenario, Australia too is nuked into oblivion (as is North
America, Europe, etc.), and that the "New York City" picture in Farrow's
book refers to some OTHER place, elsewhere on the planet... just NOT in the
radioactive wasteland that was once your home country.
> > >
> > > Incidentally, one of the reasons I thought to modify a post-nuke-war
Australia as the place where a futuristic-looking "New York City" might
exist in 2503 A.D., is that Australia and the contiguous 48 states of the
U.S. are nearly antipodal. I don't know if you've ever read any Dante, but
in his pre-Columbus view of geography, Jerusalem lies at the center of the
inhabited hemisphere of land, and at the antipodal location, in the center
of the hemisphere of ocean, lies the island mountain of Purgatory (just
south of the real French Polynesian islands in the South Pacific Ocean). By
juxtaposing two places on opposite sides of the World, Dante was able to
compare and contrast two different "world views" (one a "this world" view,
and the other a "next world" view); similarly, I got to imagining a "New
America" that represented MY view of how Americanism should be developed for
the sake of the Future (Jeffersonian Republicanism, Constitutional
government, pro-Science humanism, etc.), as opposed to the bad trends at
work in the halls of power in REAL America (divisive & corrupt 2-party
system, unconstitutional gov't, anti-Science/pro-"Faith" & Religion
advocacy, ultimately leading towards the Totalitarianism portrayed in
CONQUEST). By having the Nuke war "clean the slate" (so to speak), rendering
North America a radioactive shambles, I was going to have "expatriate"
American scientists (in a Science station at the L5 lagrangian position of
the Earth-Moon system) descend to the most viable place (physically) where
they could build THEIR idea of a "more perfect" America--a "New America":
the continent that no longer dwells in the southern hemisphere (due to the
displacement of the Earth's crust)--Australia. These "Scientists" (as the
old holographic man in "The Legacy" calls themselves), advocating a
pro-Science view rather than a religion-based one, would develop a
space-faring culture, purging the "sins" of Irrationality from all those who
wish to become Offworlders... in other words, a nontheistic kind of
"Purgatory" where Humanity extends its presence into the literal "Heavens"
of Outer Space, but NOT by toadying to the dubious morality espoused by the
official Church(es), as in Dante's conception of Salvation.
> > >
> > > It was Australia's near-antipodal position on the Globe (in relation
to the United States of America), and the "almost"-Dantean symbolism of that
geodetic location which prompted me to make IT the place where that picture
of early-26th Century "New York City" was taken--in a "New America", as
contrasted with the nuke-devastated ruins of "Old America" on the North
American continent, and the NYC seen as the "wasteland" Forbidden Zone in
PLANET and BENEATH. What Dante's island mountain of Purgatory symbolizes (in
contrast with the "Old World" centered on the "holy" city of Jerusalem), the
island continent of New America (once-Australia) symbolizes, in contrast
with the ruins of Old America, which has returned to Monarchism (Caesar's
rule), Theocracy (the priesthood of 'Lawgiver' types), and a Race-based
social hierarchy (Apes in charge, humans subjugated).
>
> > > Patrick
> > >
> > > P.S. I first became interested in the works of Dante after realizing
that BATTLE FOR THE PLANET OF THE APES owes a great deal to Dante's "Divine
Comedy". Caesar's trip to the Forbidden City, accompanied by an orangutan
named Virgil (who knows "everything about everything") is referred to (by
MacDonald) as a trip to "the Hell my forefathers talked about"--BATTLE is
"Caesar's INFERNO" in a way. Dante (in his INFERNO) was accompanied by the
ghost of the Roman poet Virgil, who symbolizes that Wisdom which can be
obtained without divine assistance. Ultimately, such "human" Wisdom can only
take Dante so far in his spiritual journey (to the top of Mt. Purgatory);
ultimately, too, the Wisdom the orangutan Virgil helps Caesar to acquire can
only take him so far... or perhaps not. After all, it was after the blood,
sweat, and tears of the "voyages of discovery" which proved Dante's physical
conception of the World was wrong; the similar scientific discoveries of
Galileo & Copernicus proved Dante's Ptolemaic conception of the Heavens to
be equally wrong. Can "Science" out-do the Theology-based conception of
Society advocated by medieval thinkers like Dante (and Aquinas & Augustine,
etc.)? Well, I (for one) think so... hence my "scenario" regarding your home
continent/country.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.htmlIn a message dated 11/10/2002 1:34:24 PM Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

 There's really no reason not to include monkeys except personal taste.
Presumably ape intelligence is man-made with genetics, etc. I think we agree
the apes wouldn't evolve that way on their own. It makes sense that humans
would try out these genetic experiments on monkeys and work their way
up.- - - Jeff

Well, yes and no... I mean in CONQUEST Armando says that it got started with monkeys and worked its way up to the Great Apes... They "realized how quick they were to learn" and kept moving up the simiam ladder... I don't see why they'd bother experimenting on monkeys when they had the Apes to deal with... I mean why bother with genetically engineering monkeys when you could just do experimentation on what is currently in use, that being the servant APES...<.html

You could have fum with the monkeys by having the apes use them as
well as humans for scientific experiments (ie same attitude as 20th
century humans).

Michael

--- mlccougar@... wrote:

> In a message dated 11/10/2002 1:34:24 PM Central Standard Time,
> veetus@... writes:
>
>
> > There's really no reason not to include monkeys except personal

taste.

> > Presumably ape intelligence is man-made with genetics, etc. I

think we agree

> > the apes wouldn't evolve that way on their own. It makes sense

that humans

> > would try out these genetic experiments on monkeys and work their

way

> > up.- - - Jeff
>
> Well, yes and no... I mean in CONQUEST Armando says that it got

started with

> monkeys and worked its way up to the Great Apes... They "realized

how quick

> they were to learn" and kept moving up the simiam ladder... I don't

see why

> they'd bother experimenting on monkeys when they had the Apes to

deal with...

> I mean why bother with genetically engineering monkeys when you

could just do

> experimentation on what is currently in use, that being the servant

APES...

>

Guess you've never been to Philadelphia.

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> And we don't have any Forbidden Zones to hide in. - - - Jeff

Much of the politics and religion discussed here has fuck all to do
with Planet of the Apes.

Michael

--- LordTZer0@... wrote:

> Ken and I were talking on the phone the other night and we

commented that it

> must be a unique Aussie thing that you never discuss politics and

religion

> unless you want a shit fight on your hands.
>
>
> Just seems common sense to me.>
> >
> Too true, Mick. However this is an Apes group. Cut out the

politics and

> religion and all that's left to discuss is how cool the makeups

looked.

>

Well at least you guys are good for a laugh.

Michael

--- Haristas@... wrote:

> In a message dated 11/10/02 6:25:32 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> whitty@... writes:
>
>
> > Are Krueger, Taylor and Rory all stoned, sitting around the

lounge room or

> > something?
> >
> >
>
> Yeah, and you missed out on some good bud, bud!
>

.htmlNothing like being a good patriotic American PARANOID, is there, T?

I'm a realist Rory.  There's a difference.

I wake up everyday all worried that the military taking over the country. Yeah, that could happen any day! But you know all those militias will stop them, and private gun owners too. Oh, they'll be real brave when the US army comes knocking at the door.

Hey, I wake up in a world where anything can happen.  And frequently does.  Who'd have thought terrorist would be taking out buildings on American soil?  Do I think the army will be used against American citizens?  No.  But that doesn't mean I don't think it could happen.  Would I stand against them if they were in the wrong?  I guess I'd have to, as futile as that sounds. I know people like you are never going to defend the rights of American citizens.  And this country is too important to the world to let it just go down the drain. But I don't think I'd ever have to.  There are sufficient constitutional safe guards in place to prevent it.  But I would Never think, that it could Never happen.  I'm sure they said, it can't never happen here, right before it did, in Germany and Russia.  If someone tried to do that with my country, you can damn sure bet I'm going to have something to say about it.  And I don't care who and what army.  But apparently, according to Rory, we should all just roll over and take it in the ass.  But if, perchance, we should ever even consider futilely resisting, and standing up for our rights, then we're just some kook.  Or am I reading your position wrong?<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/10/2002 9:44:49 AM Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

Do the orang males lock up their females? Keep 'em in a seraglio

No there's an aspect that might be worth exploring in future films.
I'd like to see 'm make a toy out of that!

<.html

.html

Still, might not my suggestion be technically feasible, at the least?

Yeah, but why not just make your deck region free.  They make CDs and chips for them for just that purpose.  It doesn't take a lot of time, effort or cash.  And when you mess with the voltage on anything with a computer in it, it tends to go wonky.

<.html

.html

*** I think it's a BRILLIANT idea! But beware! The mere MENTION of the
word "mothership" will get your head chopped off by the anti-Heresy
bloody baboons on this site

!

Oh I don't think we chopped you head off.  But when your evidence is so contestable, we question your rational, no matter how long your post is.

<.html

.html

*** Hmmm... y'ever hear of "Ruby Ridge", Rory? The US Gov't got enough
bad press after that BATF fiasco (and the Waco tragedy), that they've
gone out of their way to try to calm the "paranoid" fears of the
"militia" Fringe groups out there, who saw those events as wake-up
calls. Remember the "Freemen" in Montana?

Hey don't get me wrong.  I think most of these militia types are nuts too.  I sure as hell wouldn't want them backing me.  No doubt they'd shoot me by mistake.  We had some kooks like the Montana Freemen in the western part of the state, called the Texas Separatists, basically just tax dodgers.  They are now all either dead or in prison.  Though when you think about it, the founding fathers were basically tax dodgers for the most part as well.  Do ya think there wouldn't have been a war if we'd've had representation?  Hell yes, we would have!  We'd have been voted down every time if they gave us a represenative for every state!

<.html

.htmlAnd what lessons were learned from that?   When the government comes a knocking, just open the door.  If you try to fight authority you're doomed to lose.

So what lesson are you trying to teach?  Don't try?  There's a little film coming on TCM right now you should watch.  It's called Spartacus.<.html

OK

Thanks Mr C, I like a lot of this stuff.

I agree the "Apes on Horse" society should stay, but it could look at
better developed societies in other parts of the world too. I am not
sure how you would go at explaining how the 2 different societies
exist without meeting....

Michael

--- mlccougar@... wrote:

> Mr. Whitty,
>
> I seen your "request" about the "faded" paragraph from the posting

I made on

> the above mentioned subject... Per your request, here it is in it's

entirety:

>
>
> I do like the fact that you'd want it set in the "world" of the

first two

> movies, although you said you're not opposed to a bigger 'n better

version of

> the tv series either... Maybe it could be a combination of the two

like Rod

> Serling's scripts seemed to... Have Burke and Virdon land in the

world of

> 3978 and be on a rescue mission to find Taylor and his crew... I

know we'd

> have to be very "creative" in getting them there, because in

Beneath we

> already have Brent & the Skipper... One way we could get around it

is to make

> them part of the same crew as the Beneath rescue mission... We

could take

> some creative liberties and say that while Brent was taking care of

their

> ailing commander, Burke and Virdon were off exploring their

new "home" and

> were looking for a place that'd be more inhabitable than the desert

in which

> they crashed... Or we could just say the events of Beneath didn't

(or

> wouldn't) happen, as Serling's two scripts did, and then Burke and

Virdon

> (or, if you prefer Virdon and Kovak) would be the rescue team,

rather than

> Brent & Skipper... We could also take another cue from Serling's

scripts and

> include Galen, as well as Zaius and Ursus... As for story

idea/plots, I have

> none right now, but I do think I'd like to see it stay with the (as

Jeff

> called it) "Apes on horses" society...
>
>
>

I agree there needs to be more females.

And yes, to achieve this there is a story needed to explain the
absence of females in many of the films.

I think the most "POTA" way is probably to compare to Middle Eastern
females (or we could have them beamed up to the mothership). it
would take a lot of thought, so let's get to it!

Does anyone actually KNOW why they overlooked the females so
prominently?

Michael

--- mlccougar@... wrote:

> In a message dated 11/10/2002 9:44:35 AM Central Standard Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:
>
>
> > *** I'd like to see the female orangutans & gorillas make their

presence

> > felt, in SOME way. There were a fair amount of female chimps in

PLANET (,

> > etc.), but where were the other ape females? Zaius mentions

having a

> > granddaughter ... so, he must have (or have had) a wife who bore

him at

> > least one child who either begot or bore that granddaughter. Do

the orang

> >
>
>
> I agree with you on this one... I too have often wondered why the

presence of

> female orangs and gorillas was left as it was, as though they

are/were non

> existent... (I'm sure the reality is that they just didn't want to

bother

> creating outfits and additional makeups since there was only one

main female

> per film, and that was always a chimp... Yes, in CONQUEST the book

store

> orang is supposed to be female, but other than that one, that's

it... And why

> they DIDN'T include a female gorilla in the funeral scene in PLANET

is beyond

> me, especially since they had the outfit made!) Could we speculate

that the

> orangs are so conservative that they treat their females as some

Middle

> Eastern countries treat theirs? Basically "kept under wraps" so to

speak? I

> am not sure how I'd handle the orangutan situation as far as that

goes, and I

> can't say I even totally like the idea myself, but it's one way we

could deal

> with them and their lack of female presence. As for the female

gorillas, I'd

> picture them as being more of the "stay at home" type... Caring for

the

> offspring, and doting on their warrior husbands after successful

hunts and

> "battles" against the dreaded humans... Just off the top of my head

ideas,

> which are of course open to criticism...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@y...>
Date: Thu Oct 31, 2002 10:33 pm
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] [OT] Jackass: The Movie

--- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:
>
> > In my opinion, it's the funniest movie since "South Park: Bigger,
> > Longer, & Uncut".
>
> "A little nonsense now and then is cherished by the wisest men."
> ~~~Willy Wonka~~~~

*** Take THAT, Mikey! Thanks, T, for implying that I'm one of "the
wisest men". I may not be wealthy, and I may be only moderately
healthy

and I may be only moderately healthy

and I may be only moderately healthy

and I may be only moderately healthy

and I may be only moderately healthy

and I may be only moderately healthy


, but I'll take Wisdom any day.




--- <veetus@...> wrote:
> Patrick, you did say in a post about a week ago about your
health not
> being 100% but that was none of my business asking about it.

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 7:22 AM
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] MW's Inability to Make a Reasoned
Argument,
> Resorting to Expletive-laced Insults
>

> >
> > *** Speaking of nonsequitors... what the hell are you blabbing
about
> > here? I don't recall having ever said that I do NOT have my
health.

.html

Does anyone actually KNOW why they overlooked the females so
prominently?

Prabably tough to find actresses up to being bade a mokey of.
I'm sure they could have written some parts for them.

<.html

Still won't help you play a PAL DVD on a NTSC system.

I've lived in both countries, and had to find ways around this.

Here in Aus most TVs and VCRs are now multi system (NTSC, PAL and
SECAM)because there is a HIGH demand.

However the same cannot be said of DVDs - there is the same demand to
have them Multi-Zone, but the merketers are not helping us in this
regard (maybe they will when DVDs are superceded).

Michael

--- LordTZer0@... wrote:

>
> > Still, might not my suggestion be technically feasible, at the

least?

> >
> Yeah, but why not just make your deck region free. They make CDs

and chips

> for them for just that purpose. It doesn't take a lot of time,

effort or

> cash. And when you mess with the voltage on anything with a

computer in it,

> it tends to go wonky.
>

I think he was joking when he mentioned the mothership...but I
thought Patrick was joking too so you never know...

Anyway he's just pissed after watching the cricket...hey Alan?

Michael

--- LordTZer0@... wrote:

>
> > *** I think it's a BRILLIANT idea! But beware! The mere MENTION

of the

> > word "mothership" will get your head chopped off by the anti-

Heresy

> > bloody baboons on this site!
>
> Oh I don't think we chopped you head off. But when your evidence

is so

> contestable, we question your rational, no matter how long your

post is.

>
>
>

I am wondering if it might be worth leaving this group to debate
unrelated aspects of religion and politics and maybe start another
group where people can feel free to stick to Planet of the Apes?

I think we actually need some ground rules (like the ones we have
about "OT" and going private at a certain point - which I certainly
have neglected to do recently!), an active moderator and to stop
going off track.

And we could bansh non-contributing lurkers to the Forbidden Zone if
they continue to hang around too long (I think most of
these "lurkers" are just invalid email addresses and people who
couldn't be bothered de-registering).

Thoughts please.

Michael

.html
"When some one says I was an embarrassment to the country, I always say, "It depends on what the meaning of was is, jerk!"  You owe two hundred thousand dollars."
              ~~~Bill Clinton's lecture, The Simpsons~~~~<.html

I don't think we need thought police around here. If we're just going to
stick to how cool the makeup is and map talk then I'LL leave. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: <whitty@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 5:41 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] New Group?


> I am wondering if it might be worth leaving this group to debate
> unrelated aspects of religion and politics and maybe start another
> group where people can feel free to stick to Planet of the Apes?
>
> I think we actually need some ground rules (like the ones we have
> about "OT" and going private at a certain point - which I certainly
> have neglected to do recently!), an active moderator and to stop
> going off track.
>
> And we could bansh non-contributing lurkers to the Forbidden Zone if
> they continue to hang around too long (I think most of
> these "lurkers" are just invalid email addresses and people who
> couldn't be bothered de-registering).
>
> Thoughts please.
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Do you REALLY think the only remaining topics would be how cool the
makeup is and map talk? What about Brian's topic? What about script
ideas? What about TOPICAL political and religious
debates/parallels? What about the mothership and Pole Shifted New-
America? What about your (Jeff's) including Natalie in a chat?

There is a whole world of topics out there to choose from.

Michael

--- <veetus@...> wrote:

> I don't think we need thought police around here. If we're just

going to

> stick to how cool the makeup is and map talk then I'LL leave. - - -

Jeff

>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <whitty@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 5:41 PM
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] New Group?
>
>
> > I am wondering if it might be worth leaving this group to debate
> > unrelated aspects of religion and politics and maybe start another
> > group where people can feel free to stick to Planet of the Apes?
> >
> > I think we actually need some ground rules (like the ones we have
> > about "OT" and going private at a certain point - which I

certainly

> > have neglected to do recently!), an active moderator and to stop
> > going off track.
> >
> > And we could bansh non-contributing lurkers to the Forbidden Zone

if

> > they continue to hang around too long (I think most of
> > these "lurkers" are just invalid email addresses and people who
> > couldn't be bothered de-registering).
> >
> > Thoughts please.
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------ ---------------------

~-->

> Sell a Home with Ease!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/SrPZMC/kTmEAA/jd3IAA/9_IolB/TM
> --------------------------------------------------------------------

-~->

>
>
>
>

>
>
>

I have been a member of several on-line lists. They tend to go
through similar periods of activity or inactivity, positive trends
and negative ones. Personally, I don't mind moderators at all, even
if they delete my own messages. But even when there is a moderator
who decides to edit or delete inappropriate messages, they run the
risk of getting negative or derogatory e-mails from the angry and
intolerant types.

A list works best when the quiet viewers participate as well. But
harsh words, abusive language, racial generalizations, sexist
remarks, or prolongued off-topic discussions will force them out
before they ever get around to contributing. I have seen all of the
above on this list within the past 2 weeks. With on-line groups, the
cryptic "please remove me from this list" is usually not a cry for
computer help, but a much-too diplomatic way of saying "This isn't
for me, so I'm out of here". This past week's loss of 9 POTA list
members is probably not coincidental.

Just my two cents' worth! (speaking of money, has anyone voted in
that POTA money poll yet?)!

Menluth.

¡¡Check out the "Saru no Gundan - Time of the Apes" Yahoo mailing
list on http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sarunogundan !!

--- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> I am wondering if it might be worth leaving this group to debate
> unrelated aspects of religion and politics and maybe start another
> group where people can feel free to stick to Planet of the Apes?
>
> I think we actually need some ground rules (like the ones we have
> about "OT" and going private at a certain point - which I
certainly
> have neglected to do recently!), an active moderator and to stop
> going off track.
>
> And we could bansh non-contributing lurkers to the Forbidden Zone
if
> they continue to hang around too long (I think most of
> these "lurkers" are just invalid email addresses and people who
> couldn't be bothered de-registering).
>
> Thoughts please.
>
> Michael

Frankly, I agree with Michael. Although I am guilty myself, I've
tried to always put OT in the subject line and to keep off topic
posts to a minimum. However, I come here to discuss POTA, not
politics or gun control laws or the weekend box office or even other
SF films. There are groups, web sites and message boards that I can
go to for any of those topics.

--- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> Do you REALLY think the only remaining topics would be how cool
the
> makeup is and map talk? What about Brian's topic? What about
script
> ideas? What about TOPICAL political and religious
> debates/parallels? What about the mothership and Pole Shifted New-
> America? What about your (Jeff's) including Natalie in a chat?
>
> There is a whole world of topics out there to choose from.
>
> Michael

.html

What about Brian's topic?

If I had some really cool ideas I'd sell 'em.
But if you just want to bat some ideas around, I'm game.

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/10/2002 7:40:43 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

Do you REALLY think the only remaining topics would be how cool the
makeup is and map talk?  What about Brian's topic?  What about script
ideas?  What about TOPICAL political and religious
debates/parallels?  What about the mothership and Pole Shifted New-
America?  What about your (Jeff's) including Natalie in a chat?

There is a whole world of topics out there to choose from.

Michael

I have to agree with you on this one.....

<.html

.htmlHowever, I come here to discuss POTA, not politics or gun control laws or the weekend box office or even other
SF films.

I'm for that.  Sorry for going off on tangents.  When someone asks an OT question or slings monkey poop on some topic I actually have an opinion on, I just can't resist.<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/10/2002 7:55:29 PM Central Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

Frankly, I agree with Michael. Although I am guilty myself, I've
tried to always put OT in the subject line and to keep off topic
posts to a minimum. However, I come here to discuss POTA, not
politics or gun control laws or the weekend box office or even other
SF films. There are groups, web sites and message boards that I can
go to for any of those topics.

"Thank you" for your agreement with Whitty and myself... I have posted on this subject before, and it seems Whitty was the only one to chime in with any sort of agreement. It's good to see another person agrees with us...<.html