I am not a politician and I am not interested in formulating a policy
to make our natives feel better. I have far more important things to
do.

Nor am I interested in your ideas, but I work right next to the
Aboriginal Torres Straight Islanders Commission (ATSIC). If you would
like to make any worthy suggestions I will pass them on.


--- <veetus@...> wrote:

> Patrick, you did say in a post about a week ago about your

health not

> being 100% but that was none of my business asking about it.
> My opinion is, what's done is done. There's been plenty 'o

tragedy in the

> past, but those who are alive today who weren't directly involved

in it

> should get on with their lives. Just as there's a movement that

descendants

> of slaves in America should be paid reparations by the government.

Hogwash!

> I can see reparations for Holocaust victims because that's the

recent past.

> But for 2 centuries ago? As for the aborigines (and the American

Indians),

> we live in a modern world. None of us chose the world we live in. I

believe

> in freedom and there should be room for people to live like their

ancestors

> if they choose. But enough of this "My land! Gimme, gimme, gimme!"

Look at

> what's going on in the Middle East. I reflect back on something

George Lucas

> said in a speech at the Oscars in tribute to director Akira

Kurosawa, saying

> the theme of his films is "Why can't people be happier together?"

I'd like

> to buy the world a Coke. - - - Jeff
>
> P.S.: I think Whitty referred to the lynchings and stuff in the

South

> post -Civil War (indeed, post-19th Century), not freeing the slaves

so they

> could hunt them like hares. - - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 7:22 AM
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] MW's Inability to Make a Reasoned

Argument,

> Resorting to Expletive-laced Insults
>
>
> > --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > > You worry me sometimes (OK, OFTEN!) Patrick.
> > >
> > > No I don't think all Brit-descended Aussies should "pack up"

and go back

> to the UK, leaving the entire continent of Australia to the

descendants of

> those who were conquered/pushed aside. Nor do the Aboriginals

(generally

> speaking).
> >
> > *** So what DO you suggest should be the "solution" to the

Aborigine

> > situation? You "feel" their pain, like Clinton's famous phrase,

but

> > what GOOD does that do without a policy to act on to remedy the
> > situation? It's like feeling sorry that some emaciated child in
> > Ethiopia is starving to death... all the while standing next to

him or

> > her and eating a sandwich. A lot of good your feeling sorry does

for

> > him/her! Feeling sorry doesn't solve any problems unless you ACT

on

> > that feeling. If you don't think the "conquered" Aborigines

should be

> > given the land back, then WHAT should be done INSTEAD?
> >
> > > Do you think all Americans should pack up and go home? You

really are a

> fucking freak.
> >
> > *** No, I do NOT think all Americans should leave America--where

the

> > hell did you get that idea? I asked IF YOU THOUGHT THAT BRIT-

DESCENDED

> > AUSSIES SHOULD LEAVE AUSTRALIA as ONE POSSIBLE "REMEDY" FOR THE
> > ABORIGINE COMPLAINTS. I never said that the Brit-Aussies SHOULD

leave:

> > I asked if YOU thought that, you moron! I don't hold you (i.e. the
> > current generation of Aussies) responsible for the actions of your
> > ancestors; neither do I feel any personal guilt regarding the
> > treatment of Native Americans by the ancestors of the current
> > generation of Americans. When I posed my question to you, it was

meant

> > (as any rational person would realize) as a RHETORICAL question.

Since

> > a "Yes" answer is OBVIOUSLY impractical and impracticable, you

should

> > have figured out that WHATEVER answer you might have to remedy the
> > situation should be coughed up and explained (i.e. "IF Aussies

should

> > NOT leave Australia, then what SHOULD they do?").
> >
> > > What's your point about slavery? Are you saying Americans are

superior

> to Aussies because you "freed" slaves so you could hunt them down

and lynch

> them? Because you blew the fuck out of each other and at the last

minute

> decided to claim the Civil War was to free the slaves? Fuck off

idiot.

> >
> > *** I didn't say that Americans are superior to Aussies, you

jerk! I

> > pointed out that AFTER the Civil War (in which a higher

percentage of

> > the population was killed off fighting over--among several things-

-the

> > issue of Slavery, than in any other war America has ever fought),

one

> > of the remedies that was put forth AND ACTED UPON was the

repatriation

> > of former slaves to their mother continent, in a NEW nation called
> > "Liberia" in honor of that new Liberty for which hundreds of

thousands

> > of non-slaves gave up their lives. For you to suggest that the

white

> > Union soldiers "freed" the slaves so that they "could hunt them

down

> > and lynch them" is a slander only a complete fool would belch out

of

> > his pie hole. That's like saying that MacDonald (in CONQUEST) lets
> > Caesar go, after their revelatory conversation in that cylindrical
> > tunnel, just so that he could be hunted down.
> >
> > America INHERITED a society which had institutionalized slavery
> > CENTURIES earlier--and it took the loss of AMERICAN lives (in the
> > Civil War) to BEGIN to put an end to that wretched institution.

One of

> > the GOOD things to come out of Christianity was the anti-slavery
> > movement, fought with fanatic tenacity by John Brown (et al.)--

albeit

> > Deists like Benjamin Franklin a century earlier pioneered the

moral

> > stand against that "peculiar institution" (as genteel southerners

used

> > to call it). It was impossible for America's founders to eradicate
> > Slavery when they were making their separation from the Empire of
> > Great Britain (though NOT for lack of trying, since the first

draft of

> > Jefferson's "Declaration" called for an end to slavery; in order

to

> > FIRST achieve Independence, the anti-slavery faction had to

compromise

> > on the Slavery issue... but AFTER establishing "a new nation,
> > conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all

men

> > are created equal", THEN the anti-slavery forces got to work
> > marginalizing the practice of Slavery, to the point where the

Southern

> > states rebelled against the "attack" on their economic

foundation. The

> > Civil War WAS about Slavery, you dolt! The ONLY real difference
> > between the Confederate Constitution and the U.S. Constitution

was the

> > attempt to enshrine the institution of Slavery for

the "Confederate

> > States of America"--that was the issue that the South fought the

North

> > over. You are under the boneheaded belief that the North & the

South

> > "blew the fuck out of each other" for WHAT? For NO reason at all?

Just

> > for the fun of it? And then "at the last minute" CLAIMED they'd

fought

> > the war in order to free the slaves? What a load of horseshit!
> >
> > > Yes it is a touchy subject Patrick and you can expect the same

reaction

> from any Aussie you tell your stupid story to. They will

say "Typical

> ignorant fuck who thinks the answer to everything is re-naming it

New

> America".
> >
> > > And that's where I stopped reading your idiotic post. You like

the

> conflict, so rather than fuel your hard-on, I'll go back to

deleting your

> posts just like many other members of this group who would be a lot

happier

> if you would "pack up" and go back to the real world.
> >
> > *** Ah, you claim--yet again--to speak on behalf of "many other
> > members of this group"... like who? There's you, and probably

James &

> > Mlccougar, who are averse to my "scenario" for the POTA saga. Oh,

some

> > of the others might occasionally POLITELY haggle with me o

I think you'll find the Civil War was fought for the unity of nations
(indeed, amongst other things).

Lincoln steered clear of the "slave" debate as this was very
unpopular. Many Northerners still thought of blacks as second rate
and were pro-slavery. After nearly losing the battle many times,
almost as an afterthought or last resort, Lincoln added slavery to
the equation. He also took the risk of allowing blacks to fight in
the Army, after much deliberation, a step that would have made it a
much quicker battle if not for the possible political side effects.> -
---- Original Message -----

> From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>

I pointed out that AFTER the Civil War (in which a higher percentage
of the population was killed off fighting over--among several things--
the issue of Slavery, than in any other war America has ever fought),
one of the remedies that was put forth AND ACTED UPON was the
repatriation of former slaves to their mother continent, in a NEW
nation called "Liberia" in honor of that new Liberty for which
hundreds of thousands of non-slaves gave up their lives. For you to
suggest that the white Union soldiers "freed" the slaves so that
they "could hunt them down and lynch them" is a slander only a
complete fool would belch out of his pie hole. That's like saying
that MacDonald (in CONQUEST) lets Caesar go, after their revelatory
conversation in that cylindrical tunnel, just so that he could be
hunted down.

> > America INHERITED a society which had institutionalized slavery
> > CENTURIES earlier--and it took the loss of AMERICAN lives (in the
> > Civil War) to BEGIN to put an end to that wretched institution.

One of

> > the GOOD things to come out of Christianity was the anti-slavery
> > movement, fought with fanatic tenacity by John Brown (et al.)--

albeit

> > Deists like Benjamin Franklin a century earlier pioneered the

moral

> > stand against that "peculiar institution" (as genteel southerners

used

> > to call it). It was impossible for America's founders to eradicate
> > Slavery when they were making their separation from the Empire of
> > Great Britain (though NOT for lack of trying, since the first

draft of

> > Jefferson's "Declaration" called for an end to slavery; in order

to

> > FIRST achieve Independence, the anti-slavery faction had to

compromise

> > on the Slavery issue... but AFTER establishing "a new nation,
> > conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all

men

> > are created equal", THEN the anti-slavery forces got to work
> > marginalizing the practice of Slavery, to the point where the

Southern

> > states rebelled against the "attack" on their economic

foundation. The

> > Civil War WAS about Slavery, you dolt! The ONLY real difference
> > between the Confederate Constitution and the U.S. Constitution

was the

> > attempt to enshrine the institution of Slavery for

the "Confederate

> > States of America"--that was the issue that the South fought the

North

> > over. You are under the boneheaded belief that the North & the

South

> > "blew the fuck out of each other" for WHAT? For NO reason at all?

Just

> > for the fun of it? And then "at the last minute" CLAIMED they'd

fought

> > the war in order to free the slaves? What a load of horseshit!
> >
> > > Yes it is a touchy subject Patrick and you can expect the same

reaction

> from any Aussie you tell your stupid story to. They will

say "Typical

> ignorant fuck who thinks the answer to everything is re-naming it

New

> America".
> >
> > > And that's where I stopped reading your idiotic post. You like

the

> conflict, so rather than fuel your hard-on, I'll go back to

deleting your

> posts just like many other members of this group who would be a lot

happier

> if you would "pack up" and go back to the real world.
> >
> > *** Ah, you claim--yet again--to speak on behalf of "many other
> > members of this group"... like who? There's you, and probably

James &

> > Mlccougar, who are averse to my "scenario" for the POTA saga. Oh,

some

> > of the others might occasionally POLITELY haggle with me over

certain

> > POTA details and interpretations, but that's a good thing.

Stimulating

> > conversations are enjoyable, and I like having them--but

discussing

> > ANYTHING with you is pointless, I can see now, since you can't

read

> > "the king's" simple English. And after misreading something, you

barf

> > up a nonsequitor, laced with insulting expletives. A couple of

months

> > ago I tried to bury the hatchet with you, but you still got a bug

up

> > your ass over your loathing of my "unflubbing" POTA scenario, and
> > despite the fact that EVERYONE who posts regularly on this site

KNOWS

> > you don't like it, you STILL whine like a baby over & over & over

&

> > over & over & over... as if they aren't already aware of your
> > opposition to my plotting ideas for my POTA project.
> > And you rarely if ever have anything interesting to say about

POTA to

> > begin with! I troll through your useless posts in vain, looking

for

> > ANY insight you may have about my favorite movie... and roll my

eyes

> > and sigh when I see YET AGAIN a typical half-assed diatribe, aimed
> > ALWAYS at me.
> >
> > > When you say you don't have your health, are you referring to

MENTAL

> health?
> > > Michael
> >
> > *** Speaking of nonsequitors... what the hell are you blabbing

about

> > here? I don't recall having ever said that I do NOT have my

health.

> > Your deluded brain is hearing things nobody is saying--I

recommend you

> > see an exorcist. You're a "believer", right? Maybe if you believe

hard

> > enough, and click your heels together, you'll find yourself back

in

> > the land of the sane! The power of Christ compels you, and

there's no

> > place like home, Bruce. Ask the Wizard for a Clue, first, though.
> >
> > Patrick
> >
> >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@y...]
> > > > Sent: Saturday, 9 November 2002 3:35
> > > > To: pota@y...
> > > > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Australia's "Neo-American"

future...

> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > > > > Not sure about the Aboriginal name for the country, but I

relate to

> their outrage at our invasion and name change. Why then do you

find it so

> difficult to fathom that I would be offended by your scenario? Do

you think

> it was nice of the Brits to kill off whole tribes and take/re-name

the land?

> I would think this is one of History's lessons that we would learn

from (as

> the Aboriginals are teaching us right now in the courts by re-

claiming their

> land under Native Title). Are you trying to justify or apologise?
> > > > >
> > > > > Is that the little bit of Cartman coming out in you again

when you

> say "I've never claimed to be a "know-it-all"."? That is pretty

funny. Or

> maybe you have been falsely accused....
> > > > >
> > > > > Michael
> > > >
> > > > *** If you "relate" to Aboriginal peoples' outrage, are you

willing to

> "act" on that sentiment? Do you think that all Brit-descended

Aussies should

> "pack up" and go back to the UK, leaving the entire continent of

Australia

> to the descendants of those who were conquered/pushed aside? If you

aren't

> willing to act on that guilt-of- the-past, then does your sentiment

really

> mean anything? At least when slavery was eradicated in America

(after the

> bloodiest war we've ever fought), former slaves were given the

chance to

> "repatriate" to their mother continent, to live in a country all

their own

> in liberty--the country "Liberia", named in honor of that blood-won

freedom.

> > > > There's talk, currently, from guys like the "Reverend" Al

Sharpton

> (and others) who think that they--the descendants of slaves--should

reap

> financial benefits even though they themselves have never been

slaves--and

> they want "whitey" to

Again you misquote me. I was making the point that this "freedom"
was not much more than taking away their chains. There was no real
change in attitude, just a slight pay rise. Nothing much changed for
a long time, and any black man that slept with (or, often, looked at)
a white woman was strung up. So what is the point of that sort of
freedom? That's all I was saying.



--- <veetus@...> wrote:

> Patrick, you did say in a post about a week ago about your

health not

> being 100% but that was none of my business asking about it.
> My opinion is, what's done is done. There's been plenty 'o

tragedy in the

> past, but those who are alive today who weren't directly involved

in it

> should get on with their lives. Just as there's a movement that

descendants

> of slaves in America should be paid reparations by the government.

Hogwash!

> I can see reparations for Holocaust victims because that's the

recent past.

> But for 2 centuries ago? As for the aborigines (and the American

Indians),

> we live in a modern world. None of us chose the world we live in. I

believe

> in freedom and there should be room for people to live like their

ancestors

> if they choose. But enough of this "My land! Gimme, gimme, gimme!"

Look at

> what's going on in the Middle East. I reflect back on something

George Lucas

> said in a speech at the Oscars in tribute to director Akira

Kurosawa, saying

> the theme of his films is "Why can't people be happier together?"

I'd like

> to buy the world a Coke. - - - Jeff
>
> P.S.: I think Whitty referred to the lynchings and stuff in the

South

> post -Civil War (indeed, post-19th Century), not freeing the slaves

so they

> could hunt them like hares. - - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 7:22 AM
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] MW's Inability to Make a Reasoned

Argument,

> Resorting to Expletive-laced Insults
>
>
> > --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > > You worry me sometimes (OK, OFTEN!) Patrick.
> > >
> > > No I don't think all Brit-descended Aussies should "pack up"

and go back

> to the UK, leaving the entire continent of Australia to the

descendants of

> those who were conquered/pushed aside. Nor do the Aboriginals

(generally

> speaking).
> >
> > *** So what DO you suggest should be the "solution" to the

Aborigine

> > situation? You "feel" their pain, like Clinton's famous phrase,

but

> > what GOOD does that do without a policy to act on to remedy the
> > situation? It's like feeling sorry that some emaciated child in
> > Ethiopia is starving to death... all the while standing next to

him or

> > her and eating a sandwich. A lot of good your feeling sorry does

for

> > him/her! Feeling sorry doesn't solve any problems unless you ACT

on

> > that feeling. If you don't think the "conquered" Aborigines

should be

> > given the land back, then WHAT should be done INSTEAD?
> >
> > > Do you think all Americans should pack up and go home? You

really are a

> fucking freak.
> >
> > *** No, I do NOT think all Americans should leave America--where

the

> > hell did you get that idea? I asked IF YOU THOUGHT THAT BRIT-

DESCENDED

> > AUSSIES SHOULD LEAVE AUSTRALIA as ONE POSSIBLE "REMEDY" FOR THE
> > ABORIGINE COMPLAINTS. I never said that the Brit-Aussies SHOULD

leave:

> > I asked if YOU thought that, you moron! I don't hold you (i.e. the
> > current generation of Aussies) responsible for the actions of your
> > ancestors; neither do I feel any personal guilt regarding the
> > treatment of Native Americans by the ancestors of the current
> > generation of Americans. When I posed my question to you, it was

meant

> > (as any rational person would realize) as a RHETORICAL question.

Since

> > a "Yes" answer is OBVIOUSLY impractical and impracticable, you

should

> > have figured out that WHATEVER answer you might have to remedy the
> > situation should be coughed up and explained (i.e. "IF Aussies

should

> > NOT leave Australia, then what SHOULD they do?").
> >
> > > What's your point about slavery? Are you saying Americans are

superior

> to Aussies because you "freed" slaves so you could hunt them down

and lynch

> them? Because you blew the fuck out of each other and at the last

minute

> decided to claim the Civil War was to free the slaves? Fuck off

idiot.

> >
> > *** I didn't say that Americans are superior to Aussies, you

jerk! I

> > pointed out that AFTER the Civil War (in which a higher

percentage of

> > the population was killed off fighting over--among several things-

-the

> > issue of Slavery, than in any other war America has ever fought),

one

> > of the remedies that was put forth AND ACTED UPON was the

repatriation

> > of former slaves to their mother continent, in a NEW nation called
> > "Liberia" in honor of that new Liberty for which hundreds of

thousands

> > of non-slaves gave up their lives. For you to suggest that the

white

> > Union soldiers "freed" the slaves so that they "could hunt them

down

> > and lynch them" is a slander only a complete fool would belch out

of

> > his pie hole. That's like saying that MacDonald (in CONQUEST) lets
> > Caesar go, after their revelatory conversation in that cylindrical
> > tunnel, just so that he could be hunted down.
> >
> > America INHERITED a society which had institutionalized slavery
> > CENTURIES earlier--and it took the loss of AMERICAN lives (in the
> > Civil War) to BEGIN to put an end to that wretched institution.

One of

> > the GOOD things to come out of Christianity was the anti-slavery
> > movement, fought with fanatic tenacity by John Brown (et al.)--

albeit

> > Deists like Benjamin Franklin a century earlier pioneered the

moral

> > stand against that "peculiar institution" (as genteel southerners

used

> > to call it). It was impossible for America's founders to eradicate
> > Slavery when they were making their separation from the Empire of
> > Great Britain (though NOT for lack of trying, since the first

draft of

> > Jefferson's "Declaration" called for an end to slavery; in order

to

> > FIRST achieve Independence, the anti-slavery faction had to

compromise

> > on the Slavery issue... but AFTER establishing "a new nation,
> > conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all

men

> > are created equal", THEN the anti-slavery forces got to work
> > marginalizing the practice of Slavery, to the point where the

Southern

> > states rebelled against the "attack" on their economic

foundation. The

> > Civil War WAS about Slavery, you dolt! The ONLY real difference
> > between the Confederate Constitution and the U.S. Constitution

was the

> > attempt to enshrine the institution of Slavery for

the "Confederate

> > States of America"--that was the issue that the South fought the

North

> > over. You are under the boneheaded belief that the North & the

South

> > "blew the fuck out of each other" for WHAT? For NO reason at all?

Just

> > for the fun of it? And then "at the last minute" CLAIMED they'd

fought

> > the war in order to free the slaves? What a load of horseshit!
> >
> > > Yes it is a touchy subject Patrick and you can expect the same

reaction

> from any Aussie you tell your stupid story to. They will

say "Typical

> ignorant fuck who thinks the answer to everything is re-naming it

New

> America".
> >
> > > And that's where I stopped reading your idiotic post. You like

the

> conflict, so rather than fuel your hard-on, I'll go back to

deleting your

> posts just like many other members of this group who would be a lot

happier

> if you would "pack up" and go back to the real world.
> >
> > *** Ah, you claim--yet again--to speak on behalf of "many other
> > members of this group"... like who? There's you, and probably

James &

> > Mlccougar, who are averse to my "scenario" for the POTA saga. Oh,

some

> > of the others m

The only reason I mention others in the group is that you only ever
pick fights with me Patrick, you don't fly off at anyone else.

At times I feel it is important that you realise how many chuckles
the mothership and New America are responsible for. And I am not the
only one laughing.


--- <veetus@...> wrote:

> Patrick, you did say in a post about a week ago about your

health not

> being 100% but that was none of my business asking about it.
> My opinion is, what's done is done. There's been plenty 'o

tragedy in the

> past, but those who are alive today who weren't directly involved

in it

> should get on with their lives. Just as there's a movement that

descendants

> of slaves in America should be paid reparations by the government.

Hogwash!

> I can see reparations for Holocaust victims because that's the

recent past.

> But for 2 centuries ago? As for the aborigines (and the American

Indians),

> we live in a modern world. None of us chose the world we live in. I

believe

> in freedom and there should be room for people to live like their

ancestors

> if they choose. But enough of this "My land! Gimme, gimme, gimme!"

Look at

> what's going on in the Middle East. I reflect back on something

George Lucas

> said in a speech at the Oscars in tribute to director Akira

Kurosawa, saying

> the theme of his films is "Why can't people be happier together?"

I'd like

> to buy the world a Coke. - - - Jeff
>
> P.S.: I think Whitty referred to the lynchings and stuff in the

South

> post -Civil War (indeed, post-19th Century), not freeing the slaves

so they

> could hunt them like hares. - - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 7:22 AM
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] MW's Inability to Make a Reasoned

Argument,

> Resorting to Expletive-laced Insults
>
>
> > --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > > You worry me sometimes (OK, OFTEN!) Patrick.
> > >
> > > No I don't think all Brit-descended Aussies should "pack up"

and go back

> to the UK, leaving the entire continent of Australia to the

descendants of

> those who were conquered/pushed aside. Nor do the Aboriginals

(generally

> speaking).
> >
> > *** So what DO you suggest should be the "solution" to the

Aborigine

> > situation? You "feel" their pain, like Clinton's famous phrase,

but

> > what GOOD does that do without a policy to act on to remedy the
> > situation? It's like feeling sorry that some emaciated child in
> > Ethiopia is starving to death... all the while standing next to

him or

> > her and eating a sandwich. A lot of good your feeling sorry does

for

> > him/her! Feeling sorry doesn't solve any problems unless you ACT

on

> > that feeling. If you don't think the "conquered" Aborigines

should be

> > given the land back, then WHAT should be done INSTEAD?
> >
> > > Do you think all Americans should pack up and go home? You

really are a

> fucking freak.
> >
> > *** No, I do NOT think all Americans should leave America--where

the

> > hell did you get that idea? I asked IF YOU THOUGHT THAT BRIT-

DESCENDED

> > AUSSIES SHOULD LEAVE AUSTRALIA as ONE POSSIBLE "REMEDY" FOR THE
> > ABORIGINE COMPLAINTS. I never said that the Brit-Aussies SHOULD

leave:

> > I asked if YOU thought that, you moron! I don't hold you (i.e. the
> > current generation of Aussies) responsible for the actions of your
> > ancestors; neither do I feel any personal guilt regarding the
> > treatment of Native Americans by the ancestors of the current
> > generation of Americans. When I posed my question to you, it was

meant

> > (as any rational person would realize) as a RHETORICAL question.

Since

> > a "Yes" answer is OBVIOUSLY impractical and impracticable, you

should

> > have figured out that WHATEVER answer you might have to remedy the
> > situation should be coughed up and explained (i.e. "IF Aussies

should

> > NOT leave Australia, then what SHOULD they do?").
> >
> > > What's your point about slavery? Are you saying Americans are

superior

> to Aussies because you "freed" slaves so you could hunt them down

and lynch

> them? Because you blew the fuck out of each other and at the last

minute

> decided to claim the Civil War was to free the slaves? Fuck off

idiot.

> >
> > *** I didn't say that Americans are superior to Aussies, you

jerk! I

> > pointed out that AFTER the Civil War (in which a higher

percentage of

> > the population was killed off fighting over--among several things-

-the

> > issue of Slavery, than in any other war America has ever fought),

one

> > of the remedies that was put forth AND ACTED UPON was the

repatriation

> > of former slaves to their mother continent, in a NEW nation called
> > "Liberia" in honor of that new Liberty for which hundreds of

thousands

> > of non-slaves gave up their lives. For you to suggest that the

white

> > Union soldiers "freed" the slaves so that they "could hunt them

down

> > and lynch them" is a slander only a complete fool would belch out

of

> > his pie hole. That's like saying that MacDonald (in CONQUEST) lets
> > Caesar go, after their revelatory conversation in that cylindrical
> > tunnel, just so that he could be hunted down.
> >
> > America INHERITED a society which had institutionalized slavery
> > CENTURIES earlier--and it took the loss of AMERICAN lives (in the
> > Civil War) to BEGIN to put an end to that wretched institution.

One of

> > the GOOD things to come out of Christianity was the anti-slavery
> > movement, fought with fanatic tenacity by John Brown (et al.)--

albeit

> > Deists like Benjamin Franklin a century earlier pioneered the

moral

> > stand against that "peculiar institution" (as genteel southerners

used

> > to call it). It was impossible for America's founders to eradicate
> > Slavery when they were making their separation from the Empire of
> > Great Britain (though NOT for lack of trying, since the first

draft of

> > Jefferson's "Declaration" called for an end to slavery; in order

to

> > FIRST achieve Independence, the anti-slavery faction had to

compromise

> > on the Slavery issue... but AFTER establishing "a new nation,
> > conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all

men

> > are created equal", THEN the anti-slavery forces got to work
> > marginalizing the practice of Slavery, to the point where the

Southern

> > states rebelled against the "attack" on their economic

foundation. The

> > Civil War WAS about Slavery, you dolt! The ONLY real difference
> > between the Confederate Constitution and the U.S. Constitution

was the

> > attempt to enshrine the institution of Slavery for

the "Confederate

> > States of America"--that was the issue that the South fought the

North

> > over. You are under the boneheaded belief that the North & the

South

> > "blew the fuck out of each other" for WHAT? For NO reason at all?

Just

> > for the fun of it? And then "at the last minute" CLAIMED they'd

fought

> > the war in order to free the slaves? What a load of horseshit!
> >
> > > Yes it is a touchy subject Patrick and you can expect the same

reaction

> from any Aussie you tell your stupid story to. They will

say "Typical

> ignorant fuck who thinks the answer to everything is re-naming it

New

> America".
> >
> > > And that's where I stopped reading your idiotic post. You like

the

> conflict, so rather than fuel your hard-on, I'll go back to

deleting your

> posts just like many other members of this group who would be a lot

happier

> if you would "pack up" and go back to the real world.
> >
> > *** Ah, you claim--yet again--to speak on behalf of "many other
> > members of this group"... like who? There's you, and probably

James &

> > Mlccougar, who are averse to my "scenario" for the POTA saga. Oh,

some

> > of the others might occasionally POLITELY haggle with me over

certain

> > POTA details and interpretation

How many times do I have to say say I don't believe in God? Look for
that in my posts. It is EVERYWHERE (like god is supposed to
be...some say). How can you still say "You're a believer aren't
you?". This demonstrates the absolute futility of bothering with you.


--- <veetus@...> wrote:

> Patrick, you did say in a post about a week ago about your

health not

> being 100% but that was none of my business asking about it.
> My opinion is, what's done is done. There's been plenty 'o

tragedy in the

> past, but those who are alive today who weren't directly involved

in it

> should get on with their lives. Just as there's a movement that

descendants

> of slaves in America should be paid reparations by the government.

Hogwash!

> I can see reparations for Holocaust victims because that's the

recent past.

> But for 2 centuries ago? As for the aborigines (and the American

Indians),

> we live in a modern world. None of us chose the world we live in. I

believe

> in freedom and there should be room for people to live like their

ancestors

> if they choose. But enough of this "My land! Gimme, gimme, gimme!"

Look at

> what's going on in the Middle East. I reflect back on something

George Lucas

> said in a speech at the Oscars in tribute to director Akira

Kurosawa, saying

> the theme of his films is "Why can't people be happier together?"

I'd like

> to buy the world a Coke. - - - Jeff
>
> P.S.: I think Whitty referred to the lynchings and stuff in the

South

> post -Civil War (indeed, post-19th Century), not freeing the slaves

so they

> could hunt them like hares. - - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 7:22 AM
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] MW's Inability to Make a Reasoned

Argument,

> Resorting to Expletive-laced Insults
>
>
> > --- In pota@y..., "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > > You worry me sometimes (OK, OFTEN!) Patrick.
> > >
> > > No I don't think all Brit-descended Aussies should "pack up"

and go back

> to the UK, leaving the entire continent of Australia to the

descendants of

> those who were conquered/pushed aside. Nor do the Aboriginals

(generally

> speaking).
> >
> > *** So what DO you suggest should be the "solution" to the

Aborigine

> > situation? You "feel" their pain, like Clinton's famous phrase,

but

> > what GOOD does that do without a policy to act on to remedy the
> > situation? It's like feeling sorry that some emaciated child in
> > Ethiopia is starving to death... all the while standing next to

him or

> > her and eating a sandwich. A lot of good your feeling sorry does

for

> > him/her! Feeling sorry doesn't solve any problems unless you ACT

on

> > that feeling. If you don't think the "conquered" Aborigines

should be

> > given the land back, then WHAT should be done INSTEAD?
> >
> > > Do you think all Americans should pack up and go home? You

really are a

> fucking freak.
> >
> > *** No, I do NOT think all Americans should leave America--where

the

> > hell did you get that idea? I asked IF YOU THOUGHT THAT BRIT-

DESCENDED

> > AUSSIES SHOULD LEAVE AUSTRALIA as ONE POSSIBLE "REMEDY" FOR THE
> > ABORIGINE COMPLAINTS. I never said that the Brit-Aussies SHOULD

leave:

> > I asked if YOU thought that, you moron! I don't hold you (i.e. the
> > current generation of Aussies) responsible for the actions of your
> > ancestors; neither do I feel any personal guilt regarding the
> > treatment of Native Americans by the ancestors of the current
> > generation of Americans. When I posed my question to you, it was

meant

> > (as any rational person would realize) as a RHETORICAL question.

Since

> > a "Yes" answer is OBVIOUSLY impractical and impracticable, you

should

> > have figured out that WHATEVER answer you might have to remedy the
> > situation should be coughed up and explained (i.e. "IF Aussies

should

> > NOT leave Australia, then what SHOULD they do?").
> >
> > > What's your point about slavery? Are you saying Americans are

superior

> to Aussies because you "freed" slaves so you could hunt them down

and lynch

> them? Because you blew the fuck out of each other and at the last

minute

> decided to claim the Civil War was to free the slaves? Fuck off

idiot.

> >
> > *** I didn't say that Americans are superior to Aussies, you

jerk! I

> > pointed out that AFTER the Civil War (in which a higher

percentage of

> > the population was killed off fighting over--among several things-

-the

> > issue of Slavery, than in any other war America has ever fought),

one

> > of the remedies that was put forth AND ACTED UPON was the

repatriation

> > of former slaves to their mother continent, in a NEW nation called
> > "Liberia" in honor of that new Liberty for which hundreds of

thousands

> > of non-slaves gave up their lives. For you to suggest that the

white

> > Union soldiers "freed" the slaves so that they "could hunt them

down

> > and lynch them" is a slander only a complete fool would belch out

of

> > his pie hole. That's like saying that MacDonald (in CONQUEST) lets
> > Caesar go, after their revelatory conversation in that cylindrical
> > tunnel, just so that he could be hunted down.
> >
> > America INHERITED a society which had institutionalized slavery
> > CENTURIES earlier--and it took the loss of AMERICAN lives (in the
> > Civil War) to BEGIN to put an end to that wretched institution.

One of

> > the GOOD things to come out of Christianity was the anti-slavery
> > movement, fought with fanatic tenacity by John Brown (et al.)--

albeit

> > Deists like Benjamin Franklin a century earlier pioneered the

moral

> > stand against that "peculiar institution" (as genteel southerners

used

> > to call it). It was impossible for America's founders to eradicate
> > Slavery when they were making their separation from the Empire of
> > Great Britain (though NOT for lack of trying, since the first

draft of

> > Jefferson's "Declaration" called for an end to slavery; in order

to

> > FIRST achieve Independence, the anti-slavery faction had to

compromise

> > on the Slavery issue... but AFTER establishing "a new nation,
> > conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all

men

> > are created equal", THEN the anti-slavery forces got to work
> > marginalizing the practice of Slavery, to the point where the

Southern

> > states rebelled against the "attack" on their economic

foundation. The

> > Civil War WAS about Slavery, you dolt! The ONLY real difference
> > between the Confederate Constitution and the U.S. Constitution

was the

> > attempt to enshrine the institution of Slavery for

the "Confederate

> > States of America"--that was the issue that the South fought the

North

> > over. You are under the boneheaded belief that the North & the

South

> > "blew the fuck out of each other" for WHAT? For NO reason at all?

Just

> > for the fun of it? And then "at the last minute" CLAIMED they'd

fought

> > the war in order to free the slaves? What a load of horseshit!
> >
> > > Yes it is a touchy subject Patrick and you can expect the same

reaction

> from any Aussie you tell your stupid story to. They will

say "Typical

> ignorant fuck who thinks the answer to everything is re-naming it

New

> America".
> >
> > > And that's where I stopped reading your idiotic post. You like

the

> conflict, so rather than fuel your hard-on, I'll go back to

deleting your

> posts just like many other members of this group who would be a lot

happier

> if you would "pack up" and go back to the real world.
> >
> > *** Ah, you claim--yet again--to speak on behalf of "many other
> > members of this group"... like who? There's you, and probably

James &

> > Mlccougar, who are averse to my "scenario" for the POTA saga. Oh,

some

> > of the others might occasionally POLITELY haggle with me over

certain

> > POTA details and interpretations, but that's a good th

I think I have touched on this before, but let's elaborate.

Wouldn't it be lovely to hold an Apes Expo? A well organised
celebration of POTA. Maybe at the "Ape City" location (at the old
Fox Ranch). Maybe somewhere else (at Rory's place, or Jeff's)?

Would this be practical?

Are there facilities there or nearby to hold such an event?

Are there accommodation facilities?

Who would you invite (Bill Blake, Authors of books, vendors)?

Is there a spot to organise a "Go Ape" movie Marathon?

How did the POTA themed expo in NY go recently (ie, would it be
commercially viable, could we get sponsors so we could maybe pay
guest stars to appear, would this be an excellent forum to invite Fox
personnel to/tell them our thoughts?).

Comments?

PLANET OF THE APES - STORE - 200 ITEMS ON SALE NOW

Entire inventory is currently 50% off listed prices of vintage and
new movie items

check it out - items are going fast
www.hoknes.com/apestore.htm

ITEM NAME / US$ RETAIL PRICE / DESCRIPTION / SALES PRICE

2000-2003 ITEMS

COMIC BOOKS / GRAPHIC NOVELS

DARK HORSE EXTRA #34 oversized comic book tabloid - has Human War
POTA full sized poster color $2.00 (2001)

DARK HORSE EXTRA #36 37 38 - oversized comic book tabloids - weekly
serial POTA comic strip (2001) $2.00 each

POTA #1 (ONGOING SERIES DARK HORSE) Limited Edition Foil cover retail
$10.00 - BUY FOR ONLY $5.00

POTA #1 (ONGOING SERIES DARK HORSE) Limited Edition Foil cover signed
by artist retail $29.99 - BUY FOR ONLY $15.00

BOOKS / PAPERBACKS

POTA - MOVIE PAPERBACK ADAPTATION - retail $6.99 - BUY FOR ONLY $3.00

POTA - UNOFFICIAL COMPANION BOOK - excellent - retail $17.75 - BUY
FOR ONLY $5.00

POTA - CHRONICLES BOOK - superb - retail $19.95 - BUY FOR ONLY $5.00

VANITY FAIR (MARCH 2001) 2 page article with great photos $2.00

CINESCAPE (MARCH 2001) cover story article - superb! $2.00

2001 COMPLETE ORIGINAL MOVIE SCRIPT copy $3.00

We have about 2 dozen misc hard to find magazines with either POTA
movie cover stories or articles inside for only $3.00 each

TIM BURTON - ODDBALL 2001 ITEMS

POTA - 2002 WALL CALENDAR - retail $17.95 - BUY FOR ONLY $3.00 (ONLY
1 LEFT)

POTA - POP OUT PEOPLE - small figures with background scene - they
stick! MOVIE PHOTO SET retail $2.99 BUY FOR ONLY $1.50

POTA - POP OUT PEOPLE - small figures with background scene - they
stick! MOVIE PENCIL DRAWN SET retail $2.99 BUY FOR ONLY $1.50

POTA - POP OUT PEOPLE - small figures with background scene - they
stick! SIMPSONS CARTOONS retail $2.99 BUY FOR ONLY $1.50

POTA - SEALED BOX OF 36 PACKS OF TOPPS MOVIE CARDS - retail $100.00 -
BUY FOR ONLY $20.00

POTA PICTURE CD - CD full of hundreds of new/old pictures $5.00

T SHIRTS: (medium, large) enquire for stock availability

RODDY MCDOWALL RIP 1998 PICTURE RETAIL: $19.95 - BUY IT NOW ONLY
$4.00

GENERAL URKO SHIRT RETAIL: $19.95 - BUY IT NOW ONLY $4.00

GENERAL BENEATH SHIRT RETAIL: $19.95 - BUY IT NOW ONLY $4.00

1974 TV SERIES LOGO SHIRT RETAIL: $19.95 - BUY IT NOW ONLY $4.00

CARDS:

1994 KEN BARR POTA CARD Promo card from Ken Barr Card series
$4.00

VIDEOS

1974 TV SERIES - COMPLETE 14 EPISODES ON 2 VHS TAPES $20 dubbed ep
MODE

Television Series (50 minute episodes): `Escape From
Tomorrow' `The Gladiator' `The Trap' `The Good Seeds' `The
Legacy' `Tomorrow's Tide' `The Surgeon' `The Deception' `The
Horse Race' `The Interrogation' `The Tyrant' `The Cure' `The
Liberator' `Up Above The World So High'

1975 CARTOON SERIES - COMPLETE 13 EPISODES ON 1 VHS TAPE $20 dubbed

1973 BATTLE FOR THE POTA FILM - UNCUT UNEDITED VERSION (WITH BOMB
SCENES) $10.00

"TIME OF THE APES" JAPANESE 1987 FILM with similar concept as POTA
$10.00

BEHIND THE POTA - RODDY MCDOWALL 1998 DOCUMENTARY $10.00

POTA VIDEO VINTAGE PROMOTOINAL FOOTAGE - 2 HOURS $10.00

POTA (MISC POTA RELATED TV CLIPS) $10.00

VINTAGE 1963-1993 ITEMS

PLEASE ENQUIRE ABOUT AVAILABITY OF CONDITION

MAGAZINES with POTA articles/parodies

MAD MAGAZINE SPECIAL #22 (1977) VG condition GUIDE $8.00 BUY IT
FOR ONLY $4.00

MAD MAGAZINE #157 (MARCH 1973) VG condition GUIDE $8.00 BUY IT FOR
ONLY $4.00

CRACKED MAGAZINE #123 (MARCH 1975) VG condition POTA parody cover
story GUIDE $8.00 BUY IT FOR ONLY $4.00

MOVIE MONSTERS #2 (FEB 1975) FN condition, Zaius cover GUIDE $8.00
BUY IT FOR ONLY $4.00

POTA MAGAZINES #1-29 (Marvel 1974) - USA

#1-17 $5 mid/highgrade copies

#18-29 $10 mid/high grade copies

#27 $5 near mint high grade copy

FOREIGN POTA COMIC MAGAZINES

PLANETA DOS MACACOS #1-5 ? - Spain - issues $30.00 each

PLANET OF THE APES #1-3 ? (Newton Comics) - Australia - issues $10.00
each

PLANET OF THE APES #1 (Marvel UK) - England - low grade - $15.00

PLANET OF THE APES #2-123 (Marvel UK) - England - issues $3.00 each

MIGHTY WORLD OF MARVEL feat POTA #231-246 (Marvel UK) - England -
issues $3.00 each

POTA UK HARDCOVER ANNUAL 1975 #1 - $7.00

MARVEL COLLECTION (1976) huge thick 300pgs book featuring bound-in UK
Marvel comics including 2 complete POTA UK issues $5.00

APORNAS PLANET #1-4 ? (Finland) - issues $15.00 each

EL PLANETA DE LOS MONOS Volume One #1-5 ? (Barcelona) - issues $15.00
each, very thick

EL PLANETA DE LOS MONOS Volume Two #1-29 (Barcelona) issues $20.00
each

PAPERBACK BOOKS ORIGINAL PAPERBACKS ARE MID-GRADE CONDITION

CARTOON SHOW: RETURN TO THE POTA #1 1975 William Arrow $8

CARTOON SHOW: RETURN TO THE POTA #2 1975 William Arrow $8

CARTOON SHOW: RETURN TO THE POTA #3 1976 William Arrow $10

TV SHOW: MAN THE FUGITIVE #1 1974 George Effinger $3

TV SHOW: ESCAPE FROM TOMORROW #2 1974 George Effinger $3

TV SHOW: JOURNEY INTO TERROR #3 1974 George Effinger $3

TV SHOW: LORD OF THE APES #4 1975 George Effinger $15

MONKEY PLANET UK printings Pierre Boulle $5

PLANET OF THE APES USA printings Pierre Boulle $3

BENEATH THE POTA Nova cover $3

BENEATH THE POTA Cornelius cover $3

BATTLE FOR THE POTA $2

SOCIAL GROUPS OF MONKEYS FN 1970 hrd cvr book: apes and
men $2

SPACE BALLS NM - 1987 POTA cameo appearance $3

COMIC BOOKS (USA) ask for bulk discounts!

BENEATH THE PLANET OF THE APES (GOLD KEY 1970) midgrade $10

ADVENTURES ON THE POTA (MARVEL 1975) COMPLETE SET #1-11 lowgrade
$20, midgrade $30, high grade $40

ADVENTURES ON THE POTA (MARVEL 1975) #1-5 $2 each low to mid
grade, $4 each high grade

ADVENTURES ON THE POTA (MARVEL 1975) #6-11 $3 each low to midgrade,
$5 each high grade

PLANET OF THE APES LIMITED EDITION #1 (ADVENTURE 1990) Serial #,
variant cover $5

PLANET OF THE APES (ADVENTURE 1990) #1-10 $2 each

PLANET OF THE APES (ADVENTURE 1990) #11-20 $3 each

PLANET OF THE APES (ADVENTURE 1990) #21-24 $4 each

PLANET OF THE APES ANNUAL (ADVENTURE 1991) #1 $3

APE CITY (ADVENTURE 1990) #1-4 $2 each

APE NATION (ADVENTURE 1990) #1-4 $2 each

APE NATION LIMITED EDITION (ADVENTURE 1990) #1 variant cover $5

BLOOD OF THE APES (ADVENTURE 1991) #1-4 $2 each

SINS OF THE FATHER (ADVENTURE 1991) #1 $2

TERROR ON THE POTA (ADVENTURE 1991) #1-4 $2 each

URCHAKS FOLLY (ADVENTURE 1990) #1-4 $2 each

MONKEY PLANET GRAPHIC NOVEL (ADVENTURE 1991) reprints POTA #1-4 $8

PLANET, BENEATH, ESCAPE (ADVENTURE 1991) reprints the Marvel mag
movie adaptations $8 each

FANZINES

APE CHRONICLES - POTA FANCLUB FANZINE PUBLICATION - COMPLETE SET OF
#1-36 (1991-2000) - RETAIL PRICE: $144.00 - YOUR PRICE $30.00

APE CHRONICLES (1991-2001) - #1-36 - individual issues $2.00 each

APE CRAZY - POTA FANCLUB FANZINE PUBLICATION - COMPLETE SET OF #1-7
(1992-1993) - RETAIL PRICE $28.00 - YOUR PRICE $10.00

APE CRAZY (1992-1993) #1-7 fanzine - individual issues $2.00 each

Ape Chronicles (Planet of the Apes) nn NM $30 all
FANZINE 91 all mentioned issues for only $30 ? HOKNES
Ape Chronicles (Planet of the Apes) 1 NM $4 FANZINE
91 12/91 James Franciscus $2.00 HOKNES
Ape Chronicles (Planet of the Apes) 2 NM $4 FANZINE
92 2/92 Escape From the POTA $2.00 HOKNES
Ape Chronicles (Planet of the Apes) 3 NM $4 FANZINE
92 4/92 Ricardo Montalban, Ape Nation $2.00 HOKNES
Ape Chronicles (Planet of the Apes) 4 NM $4 FANZINE
92 6/92 Maurice Evans, Beneath POTA $2.50 HOKNES
Ape Chronicles (Planet of the Apes) 5 NM $4 FANZINE
92 8/92 Kim Hunter, Terror of POTA $2.50 HOKNES
Ape Chronicles (Planet of the Apes) 6 NM $4 FANZINE
92 10/92 Linda Harrison, Blood of Apes $3.00 HOKNES
Ape Chronicles (Planet of the Apes) 7 NM $4 FANZINE
93 2/93 Make Up Test script (1965) $3.00 HOKNES
Ape Chronicles (Planet of the Apes) 8 NM $4 FANZINE
93 4/93 Rod Serling unused script #1 $3.00 HOKNES
Ape Chronicles (Planet of the Apes) 9 NM $4 FANZINE
93 7/93 TV series, new soundtrack CD $3.00 HOKNES
Ape Chronicles (Planet of the Apes) 10 NM $4 FANZINE
93 9/93 Heston's Diary, Serling script #3 $3.00 HOKNES
Ape Chronicles (Planet of the Apes) 11 NM $4 FANZINE
93 11/93 Battle for POTA (rare footage) $3.00 HOKNES
Ape Chronicles (Planet of the Apes) 12 NM $4 FANZINE
93 12/93 Heston on Saturday Night Live $3.00 HOKNES
Ape Chronicles (Planet of the Apes) 13 NM $4 FANZINE
94 2/94 POTA Chronology issue $3.00 HOKNES
Ape Chronicles (Planet of the Apes) 14 NM $4 FANZINE
94 4/94 2nd Annual Readers Poll results $3.00 HOKNES
Ape Chronicles (Planet of the Apes) 15 NM $4 FANZINE
94 6/94 2nd Rod Serling unused script $3.00 HOKNES
Ape Chronicles (Planet of the Apes) 16 NM $4 FANZINE
94 8/94 Marvel POTA Magazines $3.00 HOKNES
Ape Chronicles (Planet of the Apes) 17 NM $4 FANZINE
94 10/94 Oliver Stone/new movie news $3.00 HOKNES
Ape Chronicles (Planet of the Apes) 18 NM $4 FANZINE
94 12/94 Index of TV episodes $3.00 HOKNES
Ape Chronicles (Planet of the Apes) 19 NM $4 FANZINE
95 2/95 making POTA model kits $3.00 HOKNES
Ape Chronicles (Planet of the Apes) 20 NM $4 FANZINE
95 4/95 new format, POTA comics $3.00 HOKNES
Ape Chronicles (Planet of the Apes) 21 NM $4 FANZINE
95 6/95 review of new movie script $3.00 HOKNES
Ape Chronicles (Planet of the Apes) 22 NM $4 FANZINE
95 8/95 Flames Of Doom TV episode $3.00 HOKNES
Ape Chronicles (Planet of the Apes) 23 NM $4 FANZINE
95 10/95 Memorabilia/Price Guide issue $4.00 HOKNES
Ape Chronicles (Planet of the Apes) 24 NM $4 FANZINE
95 12/95 Marvel magazine Index $3.00 HOKNES
Ape Chronicles (Planet of the Apes) 25 NM $4 FANZINE
95 2/96 Index to all articles, new book $3.00 HOKNES
Ape Chronicles (Planet of the Apes) 26 NM $4 FANZINE
96 4/96 british UK comic annuals $4.00 HOKNES
Ape Chronicles (Planet of the Apes) 27 NM $4 FANZINE
97 8/97 Roddy McDowall, new book $4.00 HOKNES
Ape Chronicles (Planet of the Apes) 28 NM $4 FANZINE
97 10/97 Escape From Tomorrow TV $4.00 HOKNES
Ape Chronicles (Planet of the Apes) 29 NM $4 FANZINE
97 12/97 original story, unused film script $4.00 HOKNES
Ape Chronicles (Planet of the Apes) 30 NM $4 FANZINE
98 2/98 movie news, new CD review $4.00 HOKNES
Ape Chronicles (Planet of the Apes) 31 NM $4 FANZINE
98 4/98 updated news, memorabilia for sale $4.00 HOKNES
Ape Chronicles (Planet of the Apes) 32 NM $4 FANZINE
98 6/98 updated news, POTA on the Internet, Ebay $4.00
HOKNES
Ape Chronicles (Planet of the Apes) 33 NM $4 FANZINE
98 8/99 updated news, $4.00 HOKNES
Ape Chronicles (Planet of the Apes) 34 NM $4 FANZINE
98 10/98 updated news, $4.00 HOKNES
Ape Chronicles (Planet of the Apes) 35 NM $4 FANZINE
98 12/98 Complete Actor Credits, $4.00 HOKNES
Ape Chronicles (Planet of the Apes) 36 NM $4 FANZINE
99 2/99 updated news, $4.00 HOKNES

APE CRAZY (Planet of the Apes) nn NM $10 all
FANZINE 92 all mentioned issues for only $15 ? HOKNES
APE CRAZY (Planet of the Apes) 1 NM $3 FANZINE
92 Planet Of The Apes Fanzine ? HOKNES
APE CRAZY (Planet of the Apes) 2 NM $3 FANZINE
92 Planet Of The Apes Fanzine ? HOKNES
APE CRAZY (Planet of the Apes) 3 NM $3 FANZINE
92 Planet Of The Apes Fanzine ? HOKNES
APE CRAZY (Planet of the Apes) 4 NM $3 FANZINE
92 Planet Of The Apes Fanzine ? HOKNES
APE CRAZY (Planet of the Apes) 5 NM $3 FANZINE
92 Planet Of The Apes Fanzine ? HOKNES
APE CRAZY (Planet of the Apes) 6 NM $3 FANZINE
93 Planet Of The Apes Fanzine ? HOKNES
APE CRAZY (Planet of the Apes) 7 NM $3 FANZINE
93 Planet Of The Apes Fanzine ? HOKNES

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: veetus@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 2:53 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: New Group?

  Another thing to consider is I think of the people in this group as friends, and sometimes when you see an interesting bit of news you just want to share it. I think that's part of what this is supposed to be about, people with similar interests sharing. I don't want to  to belong to 10 other groups like James does. - - Jeff

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 7:42 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: New Group?

In a message dated 11/10/02 8:46:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, menluth@... writes:

This past week's loss of 9 POTA list members is probably not coincidental.

Menluth.

Yeah, you HAD to bring in that Time of the Apes thing!

<.html

.html

How about this?  I got a question, and try to answer it without looking at the movie.  You know Dr. Zaius' "man hunt" or expiditionary out fit that we wears at the end of PLANET?  Where are the glyphs on it.  I'm not talking about the one in BENEATH, they glyphed that one all up, but the one at the end of PLANET.  Where are the glyphs?

 

<.html

I'll take your 2 cents and raise you another 2 cents, Matt.
I'm with you on all points.
Best,
KEN

----- Original Message -----
From: <MTotsky@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 2:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] New Group?


> I like the group the way it is. Sometimes the weekend posts get a little
out
> of hand, but it is never unmanagable. I don't mind the off topic posts. I
> enjoy the tangents that talk about other films, DVDs etc (in fact I was
> thinking about starting another list just dedicated to that. I appreciate
the
> opinions of people like Jeff and Rory in that area). The common thread we
> have here is APES, but sometimes you can only talk about it so much. I'm
glad
> Brian is back from his sabbatical, because I've always enjoyed his
postings.
> It's OK to take a break and explore other things. If the tangent goes off
> into something I don't care about, then I'll either delete or skip the
> messages. But if something major in the APES world happens (the passing of
> Kim Hunter for example) then this is where I want to be.
>
> The only thing I don't want to see here is flame wars. It just drags the
list
> down. Thankfully they have been kept to a minimum here. I think Patrick
takes
> too much abuse here. Some of the name calling is uncalled for. I actually
> know Rory pretty well, so I know his sense of humor, but others I'm not
sure
> about (Whitty and Cougar have been guilty of that just this week). It's a
> good thing he seems to be a good sport about it.
>
> I know I personally don't contribute as much as I did, but I do enjoy the
> list and wouldn't think of leaving.
>
> My 2 cents...
>
> Matt
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.htmlWow!  Terry's back in action.<.html

.html
I think the whole point of Apes was to accept others who are different than you and try an get along with them.  Then if you can't drop a bomb on 'em, killing yourself and them too.  Am I wrong?  Help be out here.<.html

I think you're exactly right. If different groups can't learn to
live together;; they'll end up destroying each other.

--- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:
>
> I think the whole point of Apes was to accept others who are
different than
> you and try an get along with them. Then if you can't drop a bomb
on 'em,
> killing yourself and them too. Am I wrong? Help be out here.

.html
I know no matter what I say, Rory will think I'm some kind of wacko, but I'll sum up.  To put it in, if you'll pardon the pun, a nutshell -- be prepared.  Does that mean I think stuff like that will happen?  No.  Do I think I'd be able to do much if it did?  Not necessarily.  But I think the reason the scout motto is, Be Prepared, is so if their scout master should happen to try and F*** them in the a$$, it won't come as a complete surprise. 

Be ready for anything . . .
But expect nothing, you'll never be dissapointed.

"This is what happens when you f*** a stranger in the a$$!"
              ~~~John Goodman from The Big Labowski~~~~<.html

In a message dated 11/11/02 12:57:28 AM, mlccougar@... writes:

<< I will admit I did some "name calling", but I did it after I was
provoked...
I mean yes, I did call his idea "nonsense", but because of that, he thinks he
can personally attack me?!? That's bull!!! You will notice though that he was
FAR MORE SEVERE than I was in anything I said. He used profanity up the a**
in his "attacks" on me, where as I "***'ed" it out... >>

Sorry Mike. You know, I never read Patrick's postings, so I must have missed
that. I just recall the one where you called him a "stupid mother f***er" (or
whatever). I just stood out as harsh. I know from past dealings with you that
you are a good guy. I didn't mean to single you out.

Matt

In a message dated 11/11/02 12:57:28 AM, mlccougar@... writes:

<< I will admit I did some "name calling", but I did it after I was
provoked...
I mean yes, I did call his idea "nonsense", but because of that, he thinks he
can personally attack me?!? That's bull!!! You will notice though that he was
FAR MORE SEVERE than I was in anything I said. He used profanity up the a**
in his "attacks" on me, where as I "***'ed" it out... >>

Sorry Mike. You know, I never read Patrick's postings, so I must have missed
that. I just recall the one where you called him a "stupid mother f***er" (or
whatever). I just stood out as harsh. I know from past dealings with you that
you are a good guy. I didn't mean to single you out.

Matt

.htmlIn a message dated 11/11/02 12:34:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, mlccougar@... writes:

I'm not talking about the one in BENEATH, they glyphed that one all up, but the one at the end of PLANET.  Where are the glyphs?

There are none on the shirt...

That's right.  So, where are they?<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/11/02 1:25:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

On the back of his neck?

Nope.<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/11/02 3:39:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, ktaylor@... writes:

Aren't they on his boots? The Mego doll outfit is based on that costume ...albeit very loosely.

Best,
KEN


Wow!  I didn't think anyone would guess that.  Who'd have thought a Mego figure would hold the answer?  Yeah, on Zaius' expeditionary outfit in PLANET the glyphs are on the boots, BUT they're also some place else too, so you've only half-guessed right.  Where are the other ones?

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/11/02 4:06:15 AM Eastern Standard Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

I think the whole point of Apes was to accept others who are different than you and try an get along with them.  Then if you can't drop a bomb on 'em, killing yourself and them too.  Am I wrong?  Help be out here.

You ask me to help you!  Man is evil, capable of nothing... You know the rest.<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 1:02 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] PLANET OF THE APES - STORE - 200 ITEMS ON SALE NOW

Wow!  Terry's back in action.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 7:51 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re:Zaius Glyphs

In a message dated 11/11/02 3:39:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, ktaylor@... writes:

Aren't they on his boots? The Mego doll outfit is based on that costume ...albeit very loosely.

Best,
KEN

Wow!  I didn't think anyone would guess that.  Who'd have thought a Mego figure would hold the answer?  Yeah, on Zaius' expeditionary outfit in PLANET the glyphs are on the boots, BUT they're also some place else too, so you've only half-guessed right.  Where are the other ones?

-- Rory
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

<.html

I don't think POTA is popular enough for something like that. We can't
even get people to post on this group, let alone travel somewhere. There was
an Apespo in NY? - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: <whitty@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 12:44 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] ApExpo 2004


> I think I have touched on this before, but let's elaborate.
>
> Wouldn't it be lovely to hold an Apes Expo? A well organised
> celebration of POTA. Maybe at the "Ape City" location (at the old
> Fox Ranch). Maybe somewhere else (at Rory's place, or Jeff's)?
>
> Would this be practical?
>
> Are there facilities there or nearby to hold such an event?
>
> Are there accommodation facilities?
>
> Who would you invite (Bill Blake, Authors of books, vendors)?
>
> Is there a spot to organise a "Go Ape" movie Marathon?
>
> How did the POTA themed expo in NY go recently (ie, would it be
> commercially viable, could we get sponsors so we could maybe pay
> guest stars to appear, would this be an excellent forum to invite Fox
> personnel to/tell them our thoughts?).
>
> Comments?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Our fanclub has been at
www.hoknes.com/apes.htm
for the past year

anyone with older bookmarks won't find my site
thanks


I've been busy traveling most of the year - trying to get caught up on
stuff!

_____

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 2:51 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re:Zaius Glyphs

In a message dated 11/11/02 3:39:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, ktaylor@... writes:

Aren't they on his boots? The Mego doll outfit is based on that costume ...albeit very loosely.

Best,
KEN

Wow!  I didn't think anyone would guess that.  Who'd have thought a Mego figure would hold the answer?  Yeah, on Zaius' expeditionary outfit in PLANET the glyphs are on the boots, BUT they're also some place else too, so you've only half-guessed right.  Where are the other ones?

-- Rory
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: veetus@... [veetus@...]
Sent: Tuesday, 12 November 2002 3:09
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] PLANET OF THE APES - STORE - 200 ITEMS ON SALE NOW

  Looks like Terry may be in trouble. His website account is down. And he's selling everything for a song. - - - Jeff

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 1:02 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] PLANET OF THE APES - STORE - 200 ITEMS ON SALE NOW

Wow!  Terry's back in action.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

<.html

Hey Jeff

Could you try to answer at least one of the questions anyway, since you are
likely to know the answer and this could be an interesting post if I could
hear your voice over those crickets?

If you look at the takings for the opening weekend of Apes 2001, you will
see that there are a LOT of interested persons. They just seem to be
looking for quality and planning if you ask me.

I seem to recall somewhere (I thought it was NY) there was an "Ape Themed"
show with 4 ot 5 POTA (classic) guest stars.

My next post is about Eminem, so that will balance it out (I promise not to
stick to Apes for too long!).

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: veetus@... [veetus@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, 12 November 2002 3:11
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] ApExpo 2004
>
>
> I don't think POTA is popular enough for something like that. We can't
> even get people to post on this group, let alone travel
> somewhere. There was
> an Apespo in NY? - - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <whitty@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 12:44 AM
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] ApExpo 2004
>
>
> > I think I have touched on this before, but let's elaborate.
> >
> > Wouldn't it be lovely to hold an Apes Expo? A well organised
> > celebration of POTA. Maybe at the "Ape City" location (at the old
> > Fox Ranch). Maybe somewhere else (at Rory's place, or Jeff's)?
> >
> > Would this be practical?
> >
> > Are there facilities there or nearby to hold such an event?
> >
> > Are there accommodation facilities?
> >
> > Who would you invite (Bill Blake, Authors of books, vendors)?
> >
> > Is there a spot to organise a "Go Ape" movie Marathon?
> >
> > How did the POTA themed expo in NY go recently (ie, would it be
> > commercially viable, could we get sponsors so we could maybe pay
> > guest stars to appear, would this be an excellent forum to invite Fox
> > personnel to/tell them our thoughts?).
> >
> > Comments?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

>
>

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: Ken and Heather Taylor [ktaylor@...]
Sent: Tuesday, 12 November 2002 6:50
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re:Zaius Glyphs

 Where are the other ones?

Duh? His gloves?

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 2:51 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re:Zaius Glyphs

In a message dated 11/11/02 3:39:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, ktaylor@... writes:

Aren't they on his boots? The Mego doll outfit is based on that costume ...albeit very loosely.

Best,
KEN

Wow!  I didn't think anyone would guess that.  Who'd have thought a Mego figure would hold the answer?  Yeah, on Zaius' expeditionary outfit in PLANET the glyphs are on the boots, BUT they're also some place else too, so you've only half-guessed right.  Where are the other ones?

-- Rory
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

<.html

.html <.html

Well, not really Eminem, I just wanted to illustrate the point that if you
don't change the "Subject" heading, people will skip over tired, off-topic
subjects and miss out on interesting, on-topic stuff.

To really drive the point home, here is something that has been regularly
requested...I hope those who want to see it catch this post!

Here is the ape alphabet we were discussing recently.

It is a bit of a joke, but here it is:

http://users.cyberone.com.au/whitty/ApAlphabet1.jpg

Michael

PS: Ship and Ape House Blueprints are next.

.htmlIn a message dated 11/11/2002 9:38:39 AM Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

That's right.  So, where are they?


If I recall ...back of the gloves.<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/11/2002 9:52:57 AM Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

Where are the other ones?

Like I said, back of the gloves.<.html

I wonder if that title attracted readers or scared them off?

Here is the link to the Blueprints of the Spaceship as discussed
previously.

http://users.cyberone.com.au/whitty/ShipBlues.jpg

As Jeff said, they are very large and clumsy and as I have said I am
very limited in the time I can spend on these.

I will however attempt to get a friend of mine (who is a printer by
trade) to reduce the sheets to a managable, "copyable" size...until
then I'll try to scan other bits of the paper and decipher the notes
for you.

The other blueprints are of ape houses and because they comprise of
many smaller drawings, they will be easier to scan in pieces.

I might even put it under the subject title "Ape House Blueprints".

Michael

.htmlIn a message dated 11/11/02 2:49:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, ktaylor@... writes:

Where are the other ones?

Duh? His gloves?

Yeah, that's it.  There on the back of his gloved hands.<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/11/2002 7:47:30 AM Central Standard Time, MTotsky@... writes:

Sorry Mike. You know, I never read Patrick's postings, so I must have missed
that. I just recall the one where you called him a "stupid mother f***er" (or
whatever). I just stood out as harsh. I know from past dealings with you that
you are a good guy. I didn't mean to single you out.

Matt

It's understandable that you may have came to that conclusion, but it's cool... Right now though, that whole little battle is over with....<.html

Is that the one with the mutants that have penis shaped heads?

Was there a reason for that Jeff? I thought about it and decided
maybe because the mutants have so many veins under those masks..?

Michael

--- In pota@y..., "Alan Maxwell" <alan@a...> wrote:
> "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:
> > P.S. As long as we're wondering about the "meanings" of the
various
Net-names ("SNs"), what the heck does "veetus" stand for?
>
> It was a character in a cartoon strip by Jeff, which appeared in
the Ape
Chronicles fanzine.

> Alan

*** Ah! Thanks. Nice to know. Some day I'm gonna have to see about
getting all the back issues of "Ape Chronicles" I don't yet have.

Patrick

--- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:

> Well hang on a second...let's see how he explains it first.
>
> Maybe he is saying at some time period that's what the Jap apes

were

> doin'.
>
> Explain, Menluth!

Michael,
I don't know if we need to go as far as to try to incorporate the
apes world of Army of the Apes/TOTA into the same world as POTA.
Although, just for fun, it's not a bad idea. I guess you could think
of it in that way (that a separate ape society developed uniquely in
Japan, and another in California (POTATV) and another in the east
(POTA 1968), and yet another in Europe in the Ape City comic).

I don't really need to do that to enjoy the concept of Army of the
Apes. It was simply a "re-imagining", to coin Burton's worn-out
phrase, of a future earth where apes rule over humans, who had
squandered their chance at dominating the planet. It's another ape-
human reversal tale. The storyline itself is unique, and is as
different from any of the other Apes films as they are from each
other.

However, despite its uniqueness, it seems to be close enough in
concept as to be rightly called a "Japanese Planet of the Apes TV
series". It appeared at the end of the POTA film series and
corresponded with the release in the US of the POTATV series. I
don't know if the American one played in Japan around the same time.
But if it did, then I envy the Japanese viewers who had their pick
of 2 different weekly Apes TV shows!

Menluth.

¡¡Check out the "Saru no Gundan - Time of the Apes" Yahoo mailing
list on http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sarunogundan !!

>
> --- Haristas@a... wrote:
> > In a message dated 11/10/02 11:24:25 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > whitty@c... writes:
> >
> >
> > > TOTA is not really my cup of tea, but it is good to have you

here

> to
> > > tell us about it and why you like it.
> > >
> > > Michael
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Yeah, I have no problem with that, BUT. . . . he did say that he
> thinks it
> > should be a candidate for consideration as POTA canon. Them

word's

> really
> > make me go ape.
> >
> > -- Rory
> >

OK

So maybe I misunderstood your definition of canon (I interpret POTA
canon to mean part of the overall linked chain of events/stories).
Maybe you mean it should be consiered as belonging to the POTA FAMILY
(ie should be considered as POTA - a al the Japanese)?

I'm sure if this is the case, that would appease the great Haristas
and steer you clear of his anger.

I'd have to think about that one - is TOTA POTA? Sometimes I even
struggle to identify the Burton movie as POTA. I even wonder if
Burton re-imagined TOTA instead of POTA my mistake!

Michael


--- "Menluth" <menluth@...> wrote:

> --- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > Well hang on a second...let's see how he explains it first.
> >
> > Maybe he is saying at some time period that's what the Jap apes
> were
> > doin'.
> >
> > Explain, Menluth!
>
> Michael,
> I don't know if we need to go as far as to try to incorporate the
> apes world of Army of the Apes/TOTA into the same world as POTA.
> Although, just for fun, it's not a bad idea. I guess you could

think

> of it in that way (that a separate ape society developed uniquely

in

> Japan, and another in California (POTATV) and another in the east
> (POTA 1968), and yet another in Europe in the Ape City comic).
>
> I don't really need to do that to enjoy the concept of Army of the
> Apes. It was simply a "re-imagining", to coin Burton's worn-out
> phrase, of a future earth where apes rule over humans, who had
> squandered their chance at dominating the planet. It's another ape-
> human reversal tale. The storyline itself is unique, and is as
> different from any of the other Apes films as they are from each
> other.
>
> However, despite its uniqueness, it seems to be close enough in
> concept as to be rightly called a "Japanese Planet of the Apes TV
> series". It appeared at the end of the POTA film series and
> corresponded with the release in the US of the POTATV series. I
> don't know if the American one played in Japan around the same

time.

> But if it did, then I envy the Japanese viewers who had their pick
> of 2 different weekly Apes TV shows!
>
> Menluth.
>
> ��Check out the "Saru no Gundan - Time of the Apes" Yahoo mailing
> list on http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sarunogundan !!
>
>
> >
> > --- Haristas@a... wrote:
> > > In a message dated 11/10/02 11:24:25 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > > whitty@c... writes:
> > >
> > >
> > > > TOTA is not really my cup of tea, but it is good to have you
> here
> > to
> > > > tell us about it and why you like it.
> > > >
> > > > Michael
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Yeah, I have no problem with that, BUT. . . . he did say that

he

> > thinks it
> > > should be a candidate for consideration as POTA canon. Them
> word's
> > really
> > > make me go ape.
> > >
> > > -- Rory
> > >
>
>
>
>
>

>
>
>

So Rory

Tell us more about 8 Mile...

Who is in it?

What is it about?

Is it a thriller or a comedy?

Michael


From: Haristas@a...
Date: Mon Nov 11, 2002 3:58 am
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] New Group?



In a message dated 11/10/02 9:27:16 PM Eastern Standard Time,
mlccougar@... writes:



In a message dated 11/10/2002 7:55:29 PM Central Standard Time,
JamesA1102@... writes:



Frankly, I agree with Michael. Although I am guilty myself, I've
tried to always put OT in the subject line and to keep off topic
posts to a minimum. However, I come here to discuss POTA, not
politics or gun control laws or the weekend box office or even other
SF films. There are groups, web sites and message boards that I can
go to for any of those topics.


"Thank you" for your agreement with Whitty and myself... I have
posted on this subject before, and it seems Whitty was the only one
to chime in with any sort of agreement. It's good to see another
person agrees with us...


We are all guilty of the same thing...it is just time to do something
about it.

Michael


Okay, now Cougar, James, Michael and T can go off and start another
group. You know what I say?

BYE! BYE! BYE! BYE!

So, Jeff. . . . What do you think about "8 Mile" being #1 t this
weekend's boxoffice? I saw it today. It was pretty entertaining.

-- Rory

When the movie came out they had 4 or 5 "Ape" people at a convention in
NY, but it was still part of a larger convention. As far as I know no one
has done a convention specifically about "Apes", like they have for "Star
Wars" or "Star Trek". People like Linda Harrison, Booth Colman, Don Pedro
Colley and Buck Kartalian make the rounds. It would be hard to do a really
great convention 'cause everybody's dead. No Roddy, Kim, directors, Heston
probably wouldn't do it. We kind of did "Ape" conventions promoting Greene's
book, but the turnout wasn't great. The time to do it would have been around
the new movie. Now it's on a down cycle. "Apes" has to come to people
(fanzines, websites); they won't go to it. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 12:40 PM
Subject: RE: [Planet of the Apes] ApExpo 2004


> Hey Jeff
>
> Could you try to answer at least one of the questions anyway, since you
are
> likely to know the answer and this could be an interesting post if I could
> hear your voice over those crickets?
>
> If you look at the takings for the opening weekend of Apes 2001, you will
> see that there are a LOT of interested persons. They just seem to be
> looking for quality and planning if you ask me.
>
> I seem to recall somewhere (I thought it was NY) there was an "Ape Themed"
> show with 4 ot 5 POTA (classic) guest stars.
>
> My next post is about Eminem, so that will balance it out (I promise not
to
> stick to Apes for too long!).
>
> Michael
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: veetus@... [veetus@...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, 12 November 2002 3:11
> > To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] ApExpo 2004
> >
> >
> > I don't think POTA is popular enough for something like that. We can't
> > even get people to post on this group, let alone travel
> > somewhere. There was
> > an Apespo in NY? - - - Jeff
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <whitty@...>
> > To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 12:44 AM
> > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] ApExpo 2004
> >
> >
> > > I think I have touched on this before, but let's elaborate.
> > >
> > > Wouldn't it be lovely to hold an Apes Expo? A well organised
> > > celebration of POTA. Maybe at the "Ape City" location (at the old
> > > Fox Ranch). Maybe somewhere else (at Rory's place, or Jeff's)?
> > >
> > > Would this be practical?
> > >
> > > Are there facilities there or nearby to hold such an event?
> > >
> > > Are there accommodation facilities?
> > >
> > > Who would you invite (Bill Blake, Authors of books, vendors)?
> > >
> > > Is there a spot to organise a "Go Ape" movie Marathon?
> > >
> > > How did the POTA themed expo in NY go recently (ie, would it be
> > > commercially viable, could we get sponsors so we could maybe pay
> > > guest stars to appear, would this be an excellent forum to invite Fox
> > > personnel to/tell them our thoughts?).
> > >
> > > Comments?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Michael Whitty

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 12:46 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Eminem

Has anyone here heard his song...forgot the title....but the lyrics go:

 

So you can suck my dick if you don't like my shit

Coz I was high when I wrote this so suck my dick.

 

I also like the one where he murders his wife and her new partner:

 

So long

Bitch you did me so wrong

I don't wanna go on

Living in this world without you

 

But is he a star?

 

Well, last year I saw his Sydney concert.

 

It was rubbish.

 

He came over more like Ricky Schroeder, after being force-fed cocaine and told "Now get out there and say fuck a lot".

 

He looked like a frightened child.

 

Michael

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

<.html

What does this have to do with Eminem?!! Stay on topic! - - - James

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 1:23 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Eminem


> Well, not really Eminem, I just wanted to illustrate the point that if you
> don't change the "Subject" heading, people will skip over tired, off-topic
> subjects and miss out on interesting, on-topic stuff.
>
> To really drive the point home, here is something that has been regularly
> requested...I hope those who want to see it catch this post!
>
> Here is the ape alphabet we were discussing recently.
>
> It is a bit of a joke, but here it is:
>
> http://users.cyberone.com.au/whitty/ApAlphabet1.jpg
>
> Michael
>
> PS: Ship and Ape House Blueprints are next.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

OK then

Forget the Expo!

Not long ago we were al throwing around the idea of getting together
somewhere, sometime?

Would the old Fox Ranch location be a good spot?

Are there facilities there?

Is there a local movie theatre?

Are there decent Hotels?


--- <veetus@...> wrote:

> When the movie came out they had 4 or 5 "Ape" people at a

convention in

> NY, but it was still part of a larger convention. As far as I know

no one

> has done a convention specifically about "Apes", like they have

for "Star

> Wars" or "Star Trek". People like Linda Harrison, Booth Colman, Don

Pedro

> Colley and Buck Kartalian make the rounds. It would be hard to do a

really

> great convention 'cause everybody's dead. No Roddy, Kim, directors,

Heston

> probably wouldn't do it. We kind of did "Ape" conventions promoting

Greene's

> book, but the turnout wasn't great. The time to do it would have

been around

> the new movie. Now it's on a down cycle. "Apes" has to come to

people

> (fanzines, websites); they won't go to it. - - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 12:40 PM
> Subject: RE: [Planet of the Apes] ApExpo 2004
>
>
> > Hey Jeff
> >
> > Could you try to answer at least one of the questions anyway,

since you

> are
> > likely to know the answer and this could be an interesting post

if I could

> > hear your voice over those crickets?
> >
> > If you look at the takings for the opening weekend of Apes 2001,

you will

> > see that there are a LOT of interested persons. They just seem

to be

> > looking for quality and planning if you ask me.
> >
> > I seem to recall somewhere (I thought it was NY) there was

an "Ape Themed"

> > show with 4 ot 5 POTA (classic) guest stars.
> >
> > My next post is about Eminem, so that will balance it out (I

promise not

> to
> > stick to Apes for too long!).
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: veetus@... [veetus@...]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, 12 November 2002 3:11
> > > To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] ApExpo 2004
> > >
> > >
> > > I don't think POTA is popular enough for something like that.

We can't

> > > even get people to post on this group, let alone travel
> > > somewhere. There was
> > > an Apespo in NY? - - - Jeff
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <whitty@...>
> > > To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 12:44 AM
> > > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] ApExpo 2004
> > >
> > >
> > > > I think I have touched on this before, but let's elaborate.
> > > >
> > > > Wouldn't it be lovely to hold an Apes Expo? A well organised
> > > > celebration of POTA. Maybe at the "Ape City" location (at

the old

> > > > Fox Ranch). Maybe somewhere else (at Rory's place, or

Jeff's)?

> > > >
> > > > Would this be practical?
> > > >
> > > > Are there facilities there or nearby to hold such an event?
> > > >
> > > > Are there accommodation facilities?
> > > >
> > > > Who would you invite (Bill Blake, Authors of books, vendors)?
> > > >
> > > > Is there a spot to organise a "Go Ape" movie Marathon?
> > > >
> > > > How did the POTA themed expo in NY go recently (ie, would it

be

> > > > commercially viable, could we get sponsors so we could maybe

pay

> > > > guest stars to appear, would this be an excellent forum to

invite Fox

> > > > personnel to/tell them our thoughts?).
> > > >
> > > > Comments?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

>
>
>

I dunno, I just wanted to make cartoon mutants and they looked funny. I
don't see penuses in everything like some in this group do. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: <whitty@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 8:14 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Veetus


> Is that the one with the mutants that have penis shaped heads?
>
> Was there a reason for that Jeff? I thought about it and decided
> maybe because the mutants have so many veins under those masks..?
>
> Michael
>
> --- In pota@y..., "Alan Maxwell" <alan@a...> wrote:
> > "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:
> > > P.S. As long as we're wondering about the "meanings" of the
> various
> Net-names ("SNs"), what the heck does "veetus" stand for?
> >
> > It was a character in a cartoon strip by Jeff, which appeared in
> the Ape
> Chronicles fanzine.
>
> > Alan
>
> *** Ah! Thanks. Nice to know. Some day I'm gonna have to see about
> getting all the back issues of "Ape Chronicles" I don't yet have.
>
> Patrick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:

> OK
>
> So maybe I misunderstood your definition of canon (I interpret

POTA

> canon to mean part of the overall linked chain of

events/stories).

> Maybe you mean it should be consiered as belonging to the POTA

FAMILY

> (ie should be considered as POTA - a al the Japanese)?

"Family" is probably a better choice of words than "canon", lest it
be confused with something in the "Book of Simian Prophecy"!

I concur with your (serious?) speculation that Burton actually based
his POTA 2001 on TOTA instead of POTA. I wrote a few suggestions on
that topic last month on the much-unused new Saru no Gundan - Time
of the Apes list. There is enough in what Burton says in his dvd
commentary and in the film itself to make me think that he is at
least likely to have seen TOTA and perhaps been influenced somewhat.

Menluth.

¡¡Check out the "Saru no Gundan - Time of the Apes" Yahoo mailing
list on http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sarunogundan !!

--- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> OK
>
> So maybe I misunderstood your definition of canon (I interpret
POTA
> canon to mean part of the overall linked chain of
events/stories).
> Maybe you mean it should be consiered as belonging to the POTA
FAMILY
> (ie should be considered as POTA - a al the Japanese)?
>
> I'm sure if this is the case, that would appease the great
Haristas
> and steer you clear of his anger.
>
> I'd have to think about that one - is TOTA POTA? Sometimes I even
> struggle to identify the Burton movie as POTA. I even wonder if
> Burton re-imagined TOTA instead of POTA my mistake!
>
> Michael
>
>
> --- "Menluth" <menluth@y...> wrote:
> > --- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > > Well hang on a second...let's see how he explains it first.
> > >
> > > Maybe he is saying at some time period that's what the Jap
apes
> > were
> > > doin'.
> > >
> > > Explain, Menluth!
> >
> > Michael,
> > I don't know if we need to go as far as to try to incorporate
the
> > apes world of Army of the Apes/TOTA into the same world as POTA.
> > Although, just for fun, it's not a bad idea. I guess you could
> think
> > of it in that way (that a separate ape society developed
uniquely
> in
> > Japan, and another in California (POTATV) and another in the
east
> > (POTA 1968), and yet another in Europe in the Ape City comic).
> >
> > I don't really need to do that to enjoy the concept of Army of
the
> > Apes. It was simply a "re-imagining", to coin Burton's worn-out
> > phrase, of a future earth where apes rule over humans, who had
> > squandered their chance at dominating the planet. It's another
ape-
> > human reversal tale. The storyline itself is unique, and is as
> > different from any of the other Apes films as they are from each
> > other.
> >
> > However, despite its uniqueness, it seems to be close enough in
> > concept as to be rightly called a "Japanese Planet of the Apes
TV
> > series". It appeared at the end of the POTA film series and
> > corresponded with the release in the US of the POTATV series. I
> > don't know if the American one played in Japan around the same
> time.
> > But if it did, then I envy the Japanese viewers who had their
pick
> > of 2 different weekly Apes TV shows!
> >
> > Menluth.
> >
> > ¡¡Check out the "Saru no Gundan - Time of the Apes" Yahoo
mailing
> > list on http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sarunogundan !!
> >
> >
> > >
> > > --- Haristas@a... wrote:
> > > > In a message dated 11/10/02 11:24:25 PM Eastern Standard
Time,
> > > > whitty@c... writes:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > TOTA is not really my cup of tea, but it is good to have
you
> > here
> > > to
> > > > > tell us about it and why you like it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Michael
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yeah, I have no problem with that, BUT. . . . he did say
that
> he
> > > thinks it
> > > > should be a candidate for consideration as POTA canon. Them
> > word's
> > > really
> > > > make me go ape.
> > > >
> > > > -- Rory
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> >
> >
> >

No wonder you have to work overtime, Whitty!

----- Original Message -----
From: <whitty@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 8:43 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] 8 mile (OT)


> So Rory
>
> Tell us more about 8 Mile...
>
> Who is in it?
>
> What is it about?
>
> Is it a thriller or a comedy?
>
> Michael
>
>
> From: Haristas@a...
> Date: Mon Nov 11, 2002 3:58 am
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] New Group?
>
>
>
> In a message dated 11/10/02 9:27:16 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> mlccougar@... writes:
>
>
>
> In a message dated 11/10/2002 7:55:29 PM Central Standard Time,
> JamesA1102@... writes:
>
>
>
> Frankly, I agree with Michael. Although I am guilty myself, I've
> tried to always put OT in the subject line and to keep off topic
> posts to a minimum. However, I come here to discuss POTA, not
> politics or gun control laws or the weekend box office or even other
> SF films. There are groups, web sites and message boards that I can
> go to for any of those topics.
>
>
> "Thank you" for your agreement with Whitty and myself... I have
> posted on this subject before, and it seems Whitty was the only one
> to chime in with any sort of agreement. It's good to see another
> person agrees with us...
>
>
> We are all guilty of the same thing...it is just time to do something
> about it.
>
> Michael
>
>
> Okay, now Cougar, James, Michael and T can go off and start another
> group. You know what I say?
>
> BYE! BYE! BYE! BYE!
>
> So, Jeff. . . . What do you think about "8 Mile" being #1 t this
> weekend's boxoffice? I saw it today. It was pretty entertaining.
>
> -- Rory
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I am switching servers so my site at
www.hoknes.com/apes.htm
will be down approx 4 days
thanks

hope everyone is doing well
sorry I never have time to chat!


_____

The Fox Ranch is now a preserve so I doubt it's open to parties. We had to
tip-toe around there. Zuma Beach would be cool, where the Statue scene and
the cave were filmed. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: <whitty@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 8:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] ApExpo 2004


> OK then
>
> Forget the Expo!
>
> Not long ago we were al throwing around the idea of getting together
> somewhere, sometime?
>
> Would the old Fox Ranch location be a good spot?
>
> Are there facilities there?
>
> Is there a local movie theatre?
>
> Are there decent Hotels?
>
>
> --- <veetus@...> wrote:
> > When the movie came out they had 4 or 5 "Ape" people at a
> convention in
> > NY, but it was still part of a larger convention. As far as I know
> no one
> > has done a convention specifically about "Apes", like they have
> for "Star
> > Wars" or "Star Trek". People like Linda Harrison, Booth Colman, Don
> Pedro
> > Colley and Buck Kartalian make the rounds. It would be hard to do a
> really
> > great convention 'cause everybody's dead. No Roddy, Kim, directors,
> Heston
> > probably wouldn't do it. We kind of did "Ape" conventions promoting
> Greene's
> > book, but the turnout wasn't great. The time to do it would have
> been around
> > the new movie. Now it's on a down cycle. "Apes" has to come to
> people
> > (fanzines, websites); they won't go to it. - - - Jeff
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...>
> > To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 12:40 PM
> > Subject: RE: [Planet of the Apes] ApExpo 2004
> >
> >
> > > Hey Jeff
> > >
> > > Could you try to answer at least one of the questions anyway,
> since you
> > are
> > > likely to know the answer and this could be an interesting post
> if I could
> > > hear your voice over those crickets?
> > >
> > > If you look at the takings for the opening weekend of Apes 2001,
> you will
> > > see that there are a LOT of interested persons. They just seem
> to be
> > > looking for quality and planning if you ask me.
> > >
> > > I seem to recall somewhere (I thought it was NY) there was
> an "Ape Themed"
> > > show with 4 ot 5 POTA (classic) guest stars.
> > >
> > > My next post is about Eminem, so that will balance it out (I
> promise not
> > to
> > > stick to Apes for too long!).
> > >
> > > Michael
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: veetus@... [veetus@...]
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, 12 November 2002 3:11
> > > > To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] ApExpo 2004
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I don't think POTA is popular enough for something like that.
> We can't
> > > > even get people to post on this group, let alone travel
> > > > somewhere. There was
> > > > an Apespo in NY? - - - Jeff
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: <whitty@...>
> > > > To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 12:44 AM
> > > > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] ApExpo 2004
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I think I have touched on this before, but let's elaborate.
> > > > >
> > > > > Wouldn't it be lovely to hold an Apes Expo? A well organised
> > > > > celebration of POTA. Maybe at the "Ape City" location (at
> the old
> > > > > Fox Ranch). Maybe somewhere else (at Rory's place, or
> Jeff's)?
> > > > >
> > > > > Would this be practical?
> > > > >
> > > > > Are there facilities there or nearby to hold such an event?
> > > > >
> > > > > Are there accommodation facilities?
> > > > >
> > > > > Who would you invite (Bill Blake, Authors of books, vendors)?
> > > > >
> > > > > Is there a spot to organise a "Go Ape" movie Marathon?
> > > > >
> > > > > How did the POTA themed expo in NY go recently (ie, would it
> be
> > > > > commercially viable, could we get sponsors so we could maybe
> pay
> > > > > guest stars to appear, would this be an excellent forum to
> invite Fox
> > > > > personnel to/tell them our thoughts?).
> > > > >
> > > > > Comments?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

From what I remember in the commentary he said his main influence was
"Land of the Lost", and obviously "Wizard of Oz". Oh, and also POTA
somewhat. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Menluth" <menluth@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 7:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] TOTA


--- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> OK
>
> So maybe I misunderstood your definition of canon (I interpret
POTA
> canon to mean part of the overall linked chain of
events/stories).
> Maybe you mean it should be consiered as belonging to the POTA
FAMILY
> (ie should be considered as POTA - a al the Japanese)?


"Family" is probably a better choice of words than "canon", lest it
be confused with something in the "Book of Simian Prophecy"!

I concur with your (serious?) speculation that Burton actually based
his POTA 2001 on TOTA instead of POTA. I wrote a few suggestions on
that topic last month on the much-unused new Saru no Gundan - Time
of the Apes list. There is enough in what Burton says in his dvd
commentary and in the film itself to make me think that he is at
least likely to have seen TOTA and perhaps been influenced somewhat.

Menluth.

¡¡Check out the "Saru no Gundan - Time of the Apes" Yahoo mailing
list on http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sarunogundan !!


--- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> OK
>
> So maybe I misunderstood your definition of canon (I interpret
POTA
> canon to mean part of the overall linked chain of
events/stories).
> Maybe you mean it should be consiered as belonging to the POTA
FAMILY
> (ie should be considered as POTA - a al the Japanese)?
>
> I'm sure if this is the case, that would appease the great
Haristas
> and steer you clear of his anger.
>
> I'd have to think about that one - is TOTA POTA? Sometimes I even
> struggle to identify the Burton movie as POTA. I even wonder if
> Burton re-imagined TOTA instead of POTA my mistake!
>
> Michael
>
>
> --- "Menluth" <menluth@y...> wrote:
> > --- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > > Well hang on a second...let's see how he explains it first.
> > >
> > > Maybe he is saying at some time period that's what the Jap
apes
> > were
> > > doin'.
> > >
> > > Explain, Menluth!
> >
> > Michael,
> > I don't know if we need to go as far as to try to incorporate
the
> > apes world of Army of the Apes/TOTA into the same world as POTA.
> > Although, just for fun, it's not a bad idea. I guess you could
> think
> > of it in that way (that a separate ape society developed
uniquely
> in
> > Japan, and another in California (POTATV) and another in the
east
> > (POTA 1968), and yet another in Europe in the Ape City comic).
> >
> > I don't really need to do that to enjoy the concept of Army of
the
> > Apes. It was simply a "re-imagining", to coin Burton's worn-out
> > phrase, of a future earth where apes rule over humans, who had
> > squandered their chance at dominating the planet. It's another
ape-
> > human reversal tale. The storyline itself is unique, and is as
> > different from any of the other Apes films as they are from each
> > other.
> >
> > However, despite its uniqueness, it seems to be close enough in
> > concept as to be rightly called a "Japanese Planet of the Apes
TV
> > series". It appeared at the end of the POTA film series and
> > corresponded with the release in the US of the POTATV series. I
> > don't know if the American one played in Japan around the same
> time.
> > But if it did, then I envy the Japanese viewers who had their
pick
> > of 2 different weekly Apes TV shows!
> >
> > Menluth.
> >
> > ¡¡Check out the "Saru no Gundan - Time of the Apes" Yahoo
mailing
> > list on http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sarunogundan !!
> >
> >
> > >
> > > --- Haristas@a... wrote:
> > > > In a message dated 11/10/02 11:24:25 PM Eastern Standard
Time,
> > > > whitty@c... writes:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > TOTA is not really my cup of tea, but it is good to have
you
> > here
> > > to
> > > > > tell us about it and why you like it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Michael
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yeah, I have no problem with that, BUT. . . . he did say
that
> he
> > > thinks it
> > > > should be a candidate for consideration as POTA canon. Them
> > word's
> > > really
> > > > make me go ape.
> > > >
> > > > -- Rory
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> >
> >
> >

.htmlIn a message dated 11/11/02 10:43:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

So Rory

Tell us more about 8 Mile...

Who is in it?

What is it about?

Is it a thriller or a comedy?

Michael

Hey, this is a POTA group!<.html

My speculation was sarcastic, not quite serious, but there was a
touch of irony there too.

I hated POTA 2001. I'd rather orbit the Earth in Patrick's
mothership!

I have not yet seen TOTA, but from what I haerd it is a challenge to
watch (however, now I know that the TOTA English Language release is
NOT the whole series, this could explain that) and very Asian (as is
the Burton thing).

Other parallels:

Different make-up (at opposing ends of the scale): I would find it
hard to watch TOTA (I predict) because I would be thinking "These
guys look WRONG". I feared that about POTA 2001, but I was WRONG.
Had they pulled a fair script, I would have been happy that the apes
(other than the females) really did look like apes...because it could
have remained a SEPARATE story to a degree....ie you could have this
event going on and the POTA "canon" could remain unscathed.

Just a few thoughts....

Michael

--- "Menluth" <menluth@...> wrote:

> --- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > OK
> >
> > So maybe I misunderstood your definition of canon (I interpret
> POTA
> > canon to mean part of the overall linked chain of
> events/stories).
> > Maybe you mean it should be consiered as belonging to the POTA
> FAMILY
> > (ie should be considered as POTA - a al the Japanese)?
>
>
> "Family" is probably a better choice of words than "canon", lest it
> be confused with something in the "Book of Simian Prophecy"!
>
> I concur with your (serious?) speculation that Burton actually

based

> his POTA 2001 on TOTA instead of POTA. I wrote a few suggestions on
> that topic last month on the much-unused new Saru no Gundan - Time
> of the Apes list. There is enough in what Burton says in his dvd
> commentary and in the film itself to make me think that he is at
> least likely to have seen TOTA and perhaps been influenced somewhat.
>
> Menluth.
>
> ��Check out the "Saru no Gundan - Time of the Apes" Yahoo mailing
> list on http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sarunogundan !!
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > OK
> >
> > So maybe I misunderstood your definition of canon (I interpret
> POTA
> > canon to mean part of the overall linked chain of
> events/stories).
> > Maybe you mean it should be consiered as belonging to the POTA
> FAMILY
> > (ie should be considered as POTA - a al the Japanese)?
> >
> > I'm sure if this is the case, that would appease the great
> Haristas
> > and steer you clear of his anger.
> >
> > I'd have to think about that one - is TOTA POTA? Sometimes I

even

> > struggle to identify the Burton movie as POTA. I even wonder if
> > Burton re-imagined TOTA instead of POTA my mistake!
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
> > --- "Menluth" <menluth@y...> wrote:
> > > --- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > > > Well hang on a second...let's see how he explains it first.
> > > >
> > > > Maybe he is saying at some time period that's what the Jap
> apes
> > > were
> > > > doin'.
> > > >
> > > > Explain, Menluth!
> > >
> > > Michael,
> > > I don't know if we need to go as far as to try to incorporate
> the
> > > apes world of Army of the Apes/TOTA into the same world as

POTA.

> > > Although, just for fun, it's not a bad idea. I guess you could
> > think
> > > of it in that way (that a separate ape society developed
> uniquely
> > in
> > > Japan, and another in California (POTATV) and another in the
> east
> > > (POTA 1968), and yet another in Europe in the Ape City comic).
> > >
> > > I don't really need to do that to enjoy the concept of Army of
> the
> > > Apes. It was simply a "re-imagining", to coin Burton's worn-out
> > > phrase, of a future earth where apes rule over humans, who had
> > > squandered their chance at dominating the planet. It's another
> ape-
> > > human reversal tale. The storyline itself is unique, and is as
> > > different from any of the other Apes films as they are from

each

> > > other.
> > >
> > > However, despite its uniqueness, it seems to be close enough in
> > > concept as to be rightly called a "Japanese Planet of the Apes
> TV
> > > series". It appeared at the end of the POTA film series and
> > > corresponded with the release in the US of the POTATV series. I
> > > don't know if the American one played in Japan around the same
> > time.
> > > But if it did, then I envy the Japanese viewers who had their
> pick
> > > of 2 different weekly Apes TV shows!
> > >
> > > Menluth.
> > >
> > > ��Check out the "Saru no Gundan - Time of the Apes" Yahoo
> mailing
> > > list on http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sarunogundan !!
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > --- Haristas@a... wrote:
> > > > > In a message dated 11/10/02 11:24:25 PM Eastern Standard
> Time,
> > > > > whitty@c... writes:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > TOTA is not really my cup of tea, but it is good to have
> you
> > > here
> > > > to
> > > > > > tell us about it and why you like it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Michael
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Yeah, I have no problem with that, BUT. . . . he did say
> that
> > he
> > > > thinks it
> > > > > should be a candidate for consideration as POTA canon.

Them

> > > word's
> > > > really
> > > > > make me go ape.
> > > > >
> > > > > -- Rory
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
>

>
>
>

In a message dated 11/11/02 11:01:34 PM, veetus@... writes:

<< From what I remember in the commentary he said his main influence was

"Land of the Lost", >>

Too bad he couldn't have had Ron Harper do a cameo. He crossed over into both.

Matt

.htmlIn a message dated 11/11/02 10:45:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

  When the movie came out they had 4 or 5 "Ape" people at a convention in
NY, but it was still part of a larger convention. As far as I know no one
has done a convention specifically about "Apes", like they have for "Star
Wars" or "Star Trek". People like Linda Harrison, Booth Colman, Don Pedro
Colley and Buck Kartalian make the rounds. It would be hard to do a really
great convention 'cause everybody's dead. No Roddy, Kim, directors, Heston
probably wouldn't do it. We kind of did "Ape" conventions promoting Greene's
book, but the turnout wasn't great. The time to do it would have been around
the new movie. Now it's on a down cycle. "Apes" has to come to people
(fanzines, websites); they won't go to it. - - - Jeff

It's that damn cyclical timeline again!<.html

Sorry...am I drowning out the crickets....?????

--- <veetus@...> wrote:

> No wonder you have to work overtime, Whitty!
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <whitty@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 8:43 PM
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] 8 mile (OT)
>
>
> > So Rory
> >
> > Tell us more about 8 Mile...
> >
> > Who is in it?
> >
> > What is it about?
> >
> > Is it a thriller or a comedy?
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
> > From: Haristas@a...
> > Date: Mon Nov 11, 2002 3:58 am
> > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] New Group?
> >
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 11/10/02 9:27:16 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > mlccougar@... writes:
> >
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 11/10/2002 7:55:29 PM Central Standard Time,
> > JamesA1102@... writes:
> >
> >
> >
> > Frankly, I agree with Michael. Although I am guilty myself, I've
> > tried to always put OT in the subject line and to keep off topic
> > posts to a minimum. However, I come here to discuss POTA, not
> > politics or gun control laws or the weekend box office or even

other

> > SF films. There are groups, web sites and message boards that I

can

> > go to for any of those topics.
> >
> >
> > "Thank you" for your agreement with Whitty and myself... I have
> > posted on this subject before, and it seems Whitty was the only

one

> > to chime in with any sort of agreement. It's good to see another
> > person agrees with us...
> >
> >
> > We are all guilty of the same thing...it is just time to do

something

> > about it.
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
> > Okay, now Cougar, James, Michael and T can go off and start

another

> > group. You know what I say?
> >
> > BYE! BYE! BYE! BYE!
> >
> > So, Jeff. . . . What do you think about "8 Mile" being #1 t this
> > weekend's boxoffice? I saw it today. It was pretty entertaining.
> >
> > -- Rory
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

>
>
>

.htmlIn a message dated 11/11/02 10:48:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

What does this have to do with Eminem?!! Stay on topic! - - - James

Eminem and Planet of the Apes.  Sounds like magic to me.

-- Dick "Anything for a Buck" Zanuck<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/11/02 10:50:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

OK then

Forget the Expo!

Not long ago we were al throwing around the idea of getting together
somewhere, sometime?

Would the old Fox Ranch location be a good spot?

Are there facilities there?

Is there a local movie theatre?

Are there decent Hotels?

The Fox Ranch is a California State Park now and they don't allow Aussies!<.html

Are there facilities?

I have actually organised some huge Pontiac Club events here, and
you'd be surprised what small town locals will show up for!

There are also ideas like sponsorship and fund raising that could
assure a hell of a time.

I always aim high...but I know it would be a struggle to pull off a
big expo.

Could be fun to fantasize about though...or maybe just a distraction
from those crickets of yours.....

Michael


--- <veetus@...> wrote:

> The Fox Ranch is now a preserve so I doubt it's open to parties.

We had to

> tip-toe around there. Zuma Beach would be cool, where the Statue

scene and

> the cave were filmed. - - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <whitty@...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 8:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] ApExpo 2004
>
>
> > OK then
> >
> > Forget the Expo!
> >
> > Not long ago we were al throwing around the idea of getting

together

> > somewhere, sometime?
> >
> > Would the old Fox Ranch location be a good spot?
> >
> > Are there facilities there?
> >
> > Is there a local movie theatre?
> >
> > Are there decent Hotels?
> >
> >
> > --- <veetus@...> wrote:
> > > When the movie came out they had 4 or 5 "Ape" people at a
> > convention in
> > > NY, but it was still part of a larger convention. As far as I

know

> > no one
> > > has done a convention specifically about "Apes", like they have
> > for "Star
> > > Wars" or "Star Trek". People like Linda Harrison, Booth Colman,

Don

> > Pedro
> > > Colley and Buck Kartalian make the rounds. It would be hard to

do a

> > really
> > > great convention 'cause everybody's dead. No Roddy, Kim,

directors,

> > Heston
> > > probably wouldn't do it. We kind of did "Ape" conventions

promoting

> > Greene's
> > > book, but the turnout wasn't great. The time to do it would have
> > been around
> > > the new movie. Now it's on a down cycle. "Apes" has to come to
> > people
> > > (fanzines, websites); they won't go to it. - - - Jeff
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...>
> > > To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 12:40 PM
> > > Subject: RE: [Planet of the Apes] ApExpo 2004
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hey Jeff
> > > >
> > > > Could you try to answer at least one of the questions anyway,
> > since you
> > > are
> > > > likely to know the answer and this could be an interesting

post

> > if I could
> > > > hear your voice over those crickets?
> > > >
> > > > If you look at the takings for the opening weekend of Apes

2001,

> > you will
> > > > see that there are a LOT of interested persons. They just

seem

> > to be
> > > > looking for quality and planning if you ask me.
> > > >
> > > > I seem to recall somewhere (I thought it was NY) there was
> > an "Ape Themed"
> > > > show with 4 ot 5 POTA (classic) guest stars.
> > > >
> > > > My next post is about Eminem, so that will balance it out (I
> > promise not
> > > to
> > > > stick to Apes for too long!).
> > > >
> > > > Michael
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: veetus@... [veetus@...]
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, 12 November 2002 3:11
> > > > > To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] ApExpo 2004
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't think POTA is popular enough for something like

that.

> > We can't
> > > > > even get people to post on this group, let alone travel
> > > > > somewhere. There was
> > > > > an Apespo in NY? - - - Jeff
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: <whitty@...>
> > > > > To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 12:44 AM
> > > > > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] ApExpo 2004
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > I think I have touched on this before, but let's

elaborate.

> > > > > >
> > > > > > Wouldn't it be lovely to hold an Apes Expo? A well

organised

> > > > > > celebration of POTA. Maybe at the "Ape City" location (at
> > the old
> > > > > > Fox Ranch). Maybe somewhere else (at Rory's place, or
> > Jeff's)?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Would this be practical?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Are there facilities there or nearby to hold such an

event?

> > > > > >
> > > > > > Are there accommodation facilities?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Who would you invite (Bill Blake, Authors of books,

vendors)?

> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is there a spot to organise a "Go Ape" movie Marathon?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > How did the POTA themed expo in NY go recently (ie, would

it

> > be
> > > > > > commercially viable, could we get sponsors so we could

maybe

> > pay
> > > > > > guest stars to appear, would this be an excellent forum to
> > invite Fox
> > > > > > personnel to/tell them our thoughts?).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Comments?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

>
>
>

.htmlIn a message dated 11/11/02 10:51:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

  I dunno, I just wanted to make cartoon mutants and they looked funny. I
don't see penuses in everything like some in this group do. - - - Jeff

That's a vicious thing to say!  Leave poor Michael alone.<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/11/02 10:52:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, menluth@... writes:

"Family" is probably a better choice of words than "canon", lest it
be confused with something in the "Book of Simian Prophecy"!

TOTA and POTA both belong to the same subspecies of primate known as "genus-homo-kruegerus," or the more common "veetus-erectus."<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/11/02 10:54:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

  No wonder you have to work overtime, Whitty!

I think Whitty works for the local Australian government.   You know how government workers are.<.html