.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Ken and Heather Taylor

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 1:46 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Whitty's questions on ApExpo2004

They O.D and choke on their own vomit.

----- Original Message -----

From: Michael Whitty

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 6:49 PM

Subject: RE: [Planet of the Apes] Whitty's questions on ApExpo2004

T

 

What happens in a band when members become dead weight and stop contributing?

-----Original Message-----
From: LordTZer0@... [LordTZer0@...]
Sent: Tuesday, 12 November 2002 16:07
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Whitty's questions on ApExpo2004

Are there facilities there or nearby to hold such an event?
Are there accommodation facilities?

If it'd be held in Century City, or very near by, I would guess that there certainly would be facilities to hold such an event, and guest/accommodation facilities in or near Century City as well...

I vote for the Escape location.  Then we can at least get a decent room at the Beverly Wilshire Hotel.  Then after the shopping trip, we can make an excursion to the San Diego Zoo.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

<.html

.html

Because it would cost too much for everyone to go to L.A.

It's not so much the cost.  L.A. sucks!  And every time I go there, I dread it.  Just get in a traffic jam in your hometown and pretend you're in L.A.  Same difference.  But when would it be.  Unless it's early January, or late August, I'm in school.  Not that anyone wants to see my smiling countenance, but what are we going to do when we get there.  Besides pester Brian at work for a tour I mean -- and sit in traffic of course -- start fist fights over which way is north on the map?  What a bunch of sad old men.
<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/12/02 1:23:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

Rory

I do actually have a great deal of respect for your opinion, but I
need you to express one.

Climb off my back, will 'ya?<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/12/02 2:58:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

T

What happens in a band when members become dead weight and stop contributing?


Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/12/02 11:30:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

Because it would cost too much for everyone to go to L.A.

It's not so much the cost.  L.A. sucks!  And every time I go there, I dread it.  Just get in a traffic jam in your hometown and pretend you're in L.A.  Same difference.  But when would it be.  Unless it's early January, or late August, I'm in school.  Not that anyone wants to see my smiling countenance, but what are we going to do when we get there.  Besides pester Brian at work for a tour I mean -- and sit in traffic of course -- start fist fights over which way is north on the map?  What a bunch of sad old men.



Pathetic losers is more like it.<.html

.htmlWhat happens in a band when members become dead weight and stop contributing?

Oh Alright!  We can plan it.  That'll probably be more fun than actually doing it anyway.  But let's make it '06.  I'll probably have graduated by then, and have to be in L.A. anyway to shop the script.  Might as well kill two birds with one stone.<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/12/02 1:05:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

How about this? Whitty can buy me one of those laptop computers and I can sit out at Zuma Beach with some beers and chat to the group. Maybe stroll over to Century City, take in one of those POTA screenings with the restored print they show from time to time. "OK, I'm in Century City now, by the bridge. How you guys doing?" It could be one of those virtual reality situations. - - - Jeff

Be serious, Jeff, I think Michael is crying down under.<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/12/02 11:38:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

Oh Alright!  We can plan it.  That'll probably be more fun than actually doing it anyway.  But let's make it '06.  I'll probably have graduated by then, and have to be in L.A. anyway to shop the script.  Might as well kill two birds with one stone

I think Whitty is putting us on, his mommy -- I mean his wife -- would never let him go.<.html

.html

Pathetic losers is more like it.

I don't think we're pathetic losers.  Mick has the means to fly out here!  That's pretty cool.  A lot cooler than anything he could do when he got here.  I, for one, would much rather fly to Australia -- if we're just going to sit on the beach and drink beer.  Then we can make a side trip to Thailand rent a beach house there, and enjoy the company of government inspected house maids.  We can dress them like Nova!  No Loser's Plan, that!<.html

.htmlI think Whitty is putting us on, his mommy -- I mean his wife -- would never let him go.

Oh I dunno.  He'll probably bring her and the kids -- take in Disneyland and the Universal tour -- and we can The Whiskey and The Viper Room.  What better way to spend the day?  Or night.  The best way to travel in L.A. is to drive somewhere at 3 o'clock in the morning -- the only time you can actually drive -- and camp on the sidewalk until noon when it opens.<.html

*** Can you not see that there's a difference between NOT having
health, and being "only moderately healthy"? Let me clarify, then. I
don't eat 100% healthy foods all the time (like green beans,
cauliflower, broccoli, etc.), since I can't stand the taste of
such "healthy" foods--hence, I don't benefit from the effects that
such a health-conscious diet would afford. I don't have "Abs-of-
steel", because I don't work out like Arnold Schwarzenegger, either.
There are all sorts of guys out there who DO work out, honing their
musculature and all that--which is GREAT, but alas, is something I
don't have much time for. About 20 years ago I threw my back out
trying to help a friend get a heavy old car out of a muddy rut on a
non-paved back-country road, and for about 5 years I had to see a
chiropractor. My back is fine, now, but I tend to be wary of over-
stressing it, so as not to experience the kind of knife-in-the-spine
pain that vertebrae-pinched nerves can be. So, I'm not all that "big"
on exercise, other than a good, brisk walk now and then.
Thus, I'm not AS healthy as I would LIKE to be, as I could be if I
got more exercise (especially the intensive kind which results in
kick-ass, "ripped" musculature, like Circuit Training & Bench
Pressing, etc.)... but that hardly means that I'm in poor health. As
I said, I'm "only moderately healthy". NOT "unhealthy", or lacking in
health. I don't drink, smoke, do drugs, none of that garbage. I could
cut down on fast food (yeah, I find it quicker to do the "drive-thru"
than to bother about spending an hour preparing a home-cooked meal...
and I never did take "Home-Ec" class, or bother to learn how to be a
Chef: I can boil water and press the "On" button on the Microwave,
but that's about it!), but that's a minor matter.
Ah, but as far as my MENTAL health, well... the Brain is the thing I
tend to exercise more than anything else. I own over 2000 books, and
I tend to read at least 3 a week, not to mention the science-oriented
magazines I pore through (Scientific American, Discover, Popular
Science, Biblical Archaeology Review, Nat'l Geographic, etc.). My
mind gets plenty of exercise, and it's undoubtedly the healthiest
part of me.
Does this clarify the matter sufficiently?

Patrick

--- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@y...>
> Date: Thu Oct 31, 2002 10:33 pm
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] [OT] Jackass: The Movie
>
> --- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> >
> > > In my opinion, it's the funniest movie since "South Park:
Bigger, Longer, & Uncut".
> >
> > "A little nonsense now and then is cherished by the wisest men."
> > ~~~Willy Wonka~~~~
>
> *** Take THAT, Mikey! Thanks, T, for implying that I'm one of "the
> wisest men". I may not be wealthy, and I may be only moderately
> healthy
>
> and I may be only moderately healthy
>
> and I may be only moderately healthy
>
> and I may be only moderately healthy
>
> and I may be only moderately healthy
>
> and I may be only moderately healthy
>
>
> , but I'll take Wisdom any day.
>
>
>
>
> --- <veetus@e...> wrote:
> > Patrick, you did say in a post about a week ago about your
> health not being 100% but that was none of my business asking about
it.
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@y...>
> > To: <pota@y...>
> > Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 7:22 AM
> > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] MW's Inability to Make a Reasoned
> Argument,
> > Resorting to Expletive-laced Insults
> >
>
> > >
> > > *** Speaking of nonsequitors... what the hell are you blabbing
> about here? I don't recall having ever said that I do NOT have my
> health.

--- In pota@y..., MTotsky@a... wrote:

> The only thing I don't want to see here is flame wars. It just

drags the list down. Thankfully they have been kept to a minimum
here. I think Patrick takes too much abuse here. Some of the name
calling is uncalled for. I actually know Rory pretty well, so I know
his sense of humor, but others I'm not sure about (Whitty and Cougar
have been guilty of that just this week). It's a good thing he seems
to be a good sport about it.

>
> My 2 cents...
>
> Matt

*** Hey, Matt! Thanks for the 2 cents--it's worth a mint to me!
Rory sent me a private E-mail, clarifying his sense of humor and the
type of ribbing he does, so I don't take any offense at it (I think
of it as being in the vein of those Dean Martin celebrity "roasts"
that were regular fixtures of TV in the mid-1970's). But Whitty &
Cougar, from my standpoint, tend to go out of their way to not only
disagree with me (which is fine--I don't mind a debate), but to do so
while hurling expletives: case in point, the former "2 words" bit.
As for Mike's recent suggestion that we have somebody "moderate" this
site, I suspect his real agenda is to specifically have MY posts
prevented from appearing on the site. I don't think it's paranoia on
my part, since he has suggested often enough in the past that I post
to OTHER groups whenever I wish to discuss some political or
religious topic, despite the fact that PLANET OF THE APES was--more
than most films--a movie about politics and religion, and the kind of
society that results from an intermixing of the two. I think that if
some of the posters on this site dislike discussing politics &
religion, they should just skip those posts and move on to the next
one. POTA's one big smorgasbord, but the "meat and potatoes" of the
Saga is the Politics & Religion: topics which are always explosive
and argumentative, but topics which MUST be dealt with in the Real
world. Their importance in the fictional world of POTA is paramount,
since POTA is an allegorical satire of our Real world.
Just WHO should be given the task of "moderating" this site? Who has
the TIME to monitor a site which gets well over 1000 postings per
month? Just as a vote for "None of the Above" would be an ideal
choice in political elections (if, that is, no major party candidate
was preferred over the other, and no minor party candidate was sane
enough to consider), so too do I think that NOBODY should be granted
the power to censor ANYBODY on this site... even those who get off
on "flaming" me.

Patrick

--- In pota@y..., mlccougar@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 11/10/2002 9:34:48 PM Central Standard Time,
> MTotsky@a... writes:
>
>
> > Some of the name calling is uncalled for. I actually know Rory

pretty well, so I know his sense of humor, but others I'm not sure
about (Whitty and Cougar have been guilty of that just this week).
It's a good thing he seems to be a good sport about it.

>
> I will admit I did some "name calling", but I did it after I was

provoked... I mean yes, I did call his idea "nonsense", but because
of that, he thinks he can personally attack me?!? That's bull!!! You
will notice though that he was FAR MORE SEVERE than I was in anything
I said. He used profanity up the a** in his "attacks" on me, where as
I "***'ed" it out... And then today he has the gall to critisize
Whitty for using profanity?!? Did Patrick ever read his own posts? He
uses more swear words than in a lot of movies these days. He should
look at his own words before he accuses people of doing what he has
done several times himself..

>
> That said, I am willing to let the "war" I had with him go. There

are a few things he and I do actually agree on, and I will try to
focus on those. Today was a good example of where he and I do agree,
the lack of female apes in the series is something that should be
better looked at, and even discussed here in the group. Now our
discussing it wouldn't change the lack of them in the films & tv
series, but maybe it will give us something to discuss (hopefully
rationally!)

*** In regards to my use of profanity, sure I occasionally use the
blue word now and then (as in "What the f*ck are you babblin' about?"
and stuff like that), but there's a big difference between using a so-
called "swear" word emphatically and using words INSULTINGLY. You
called me a "Fuckin' asshole!" in your "two words" bit. I've referred
to Al-Qaeda terrorists and those 2 sniper-killing jerks
as "assholes", but I've never called YOU one (or Mike or James, for
that matter). I've called Mike a "bloody baboon" before, in a sort
of "POTA-friendly" manner--hell, that's a not-too-uncommon Rory-type
of mild "insult".
Am I the only one here who can see the difference?

Our last "row" was begun when you referred to my "mothership"
scenario as "nonsense". You can't expect to do THAT and not get a
response--and my response was not a string of expletives directed at
you so much as an in-depth defense of the "sensibility" of my
scenario, which you so derided--without specifying WHY you deem
it "nonsense". I challenged you (or anybody) to make better sense of
the extant details as given ON SCREEN in the POTA movies, and Mike's
response was that NO scenario should be considered--that the flaws in
the films should be accepted as flaws, period. End of discussion. And
any attempt to do otherwise makes one a "dip shit".
If Mike (and you or anyone else) wishes to consider the POTA saga in
that way (and ONLY that way), that's his prerogative. I have a
different "take" on the matter, and I defend it when it's referred to
derogatorily.
Saying something is "nonsense" without specifying in detail WHY it
is, is sort of like declaring a suspect to be "guilty" of a crime
without providing any evidence to back it up. We all know what
opinions are like, don't we...?

Patrick

*** I only saw TOTA once, years ago on a "late nite" movie, and
thought of it as nothing more than a Jap rip-off of POTA; having now
heard that it was a truncated version of a 26 (?) episode series
which actually had more to it than the shorter version let on, I'd
like to at least give it a see, if the Japanese would bother to do an
English subtitled version and offer it for sale over here. Maybe I
would appreciate it more... maybe I'd still think ill of it, but it'd
be nice to get the thing in its entirety before passing final
judgment on it.
Just out of curiosity, is it mentioned anywhere in TOTA exactly what
year it takes place in? What "time" (date) does "Time of the Apes"
happen? If it's after 3955 or 3978, that would rule out its inclusion
in the "canon" (as far as I'm concerned).
You'd think that the Japanese would have tried to capitalize on the
renewed interest in POTA (when Burton's film was in the works), and
release TOTA in a deluxe package. Why didn't they take advantage of
that "window" of opportunity?

Patrick

--- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> Well hang on a second...let's see how he explains it first.
>
> Maybe he is saying at some time period that's what the Jap apes
were doin'.
>
> Explain, Menluth!
>
> --- Haristas@a... wrote:
> > In a message dated 11/10/02 11:24:25 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > whitty@c... writes:
> >
> >
> > TOTA is not really my cup of tea, but it is good to have you here
to tell us about it and why you like it.
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
> >
> > Yeah, I have no problem with that, BUT. . . . he did say that he
thinks it should be a candidate for consideration as POTA canon.
Them word's really make me go ape.
> >
> > -- Rory
> >

Jeff wrote:

<<You can bet Alex is cranking up this DVD.>>

I seem to recall him hating the film.

Matt

--- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:

> Again you misquote me. I was making the point that this "freedom"

was not much more than taking away their chains. There was no real
change in attitude, just a slight pay rise. Nothing much changed for
a long time, and any black man that slept with (or, often, looked at)
a white woman was strung up. So what is the point of that sort of
freedom? That's all I was saying.

*** Nothing much changed? How about the huge influx of former slaves
into the Northern states, where the demographics changed drastically?

In the defeated South, those who fought for the Confederacy, who had
wished to continue the practice of Slavery (out of a belief that
Blacks were not equal to Whites), continued to harbor race-hatred.
The Northerners, having won the war, tended to have more tolerant
views of Blacks, though the ANCIENT tendency to keep from "race-
mixing" remained part of the mix. It's one thing to advocate an end
to Slavery; it's another thing to be totally in favor of
allowing "mixed" marriages. Changing such race-driven views is not an
overnight procedure; it takes TIME for any society to amend itself.
The Founders, in writing the Constitution, built out of non-perfect
people, a country which was designed to improve over time, through
the amending of the Constitution (among other things) "... in order
to form a more perfect Union": that is, a perfectible (if not
perfect) society. America has always been a "work in progress"; it
has NEVER been "perfect", although the goal of Perfection was one
that its Founders hoped, in time, to achieve.

Granted, the lynching of Blacks is a horrid part of history. No sane
person defends it. But remember who perpetrated it: the defeated
former Slaveholders, who resented their loss to the North and the
loss of their "glorious" way of life which was now "gone with the
wind". Changing the ingrained racist mindsets of an entire population
is immensely difficult, especially when the practice of
institutionalized racism (Slavery) was condoned and endorsed by the
religious institutions, who could quote the Bible selectively to
find "support" for it.

I was shocked that you could suggest that the Slaves were freed so
that they could be lynched. The ones who freed them didn't go off and
do the lynching; the lynch mobs were comprised of those who would
have still been the "masters" had they not lost the war. Sort of like
when Kolp, pistol in hand, taunts Caesar in BATTLE, wishing to become
a "master" of Ape slaves yet again...

There were people who opposed the Integration of blacks and whites in
the same schools, NOT because they were racists, but because they
genuinely believed that NOT mixing the races was better for both
whites and blacks. A similar argument has been made for having all-
boy and all-girl schools, since some argue that girls do better in
school when not intimidated by the social pressures of "co-ed"
education. [Similar arguments are made for an "all-male" (yet "No
gays") military.]
Myself, I prefer co-ed and pro-integration policies. Then again, I
didn't have the option to go to a ritzy private school, so I'll never
know how much different things would have been for me.

Incidentally, am I the only one who wonders why a human ("Teacher")
teaches a class of Apes... with no human students present? Aren't
there any human children in need of schooling? What about the kid
playing war with young Cornelius? Why isn't HE present in
that "school" scene? A human can teach there, so why can't any humans
be taught there, too? Are they too busy doing the work of slaves, for
the Apes? Is "Teacher" a slave, doing the work he's best suited to
do?

Patrick

I'm also anti-censorship (ie I don't like some of your ideas but I can
delete them...I wouldn't deprive the rest of the world of rolling around the
floor in laughter!!!), but I wish that instead of passively allowing the
shit-hurling, a pro-active moderator would have intervened and said "Whitty,
if you keep up with the insults you're out!". Or even "Rory, make the
answer in 5 or more words...and put in an (OT), coz it is rarely ON topic!".

I know most of this group THRIVES on these shit fights, and I've said that
before too, So I also know why nobody cares to try to stop them.

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, 13 November 2002 5:37
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] New Group?
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., MTotsky@a... wrote:
> > The only thing I don't want to see here is flame wars. It just
> drags the list down. Thankfully they have been kept to a minimum
> here. I think Patrick takes too much abuse here. Some of the name
> calling is uncalled for. I actually know Rory pretty well, so I know
> his sense of humor, but others I'm not sure about (Whitty and Cougar
> have been guilty of that just this week). It's a good thing he seems
> to be a good sport about it.
> >
> > My 2 cents...
> >
> > Matt
>
> *** Hey, Matt! Thanks for the 2 cents--it's worth a mint to me!
> Rory sent me a private E-mail, clarifying his sense of humor and the
> type of ribbing he does, so I don't take any offense at it (I think
> of it as being in the vein of those Dean Martin celebrity "roasts"
> that were regular fixtures of TV in the mid-1970's). But Whitty &
> Cougar, from my standpoint, tend to go out of their way to not only
> disagree with me (which is fine--I don't mind a debate), but to do so
> while hurling expletives: case in point, the former "2 words" bit.
> As for Mike's recent suggestion that we have somebody "moderate" this
> site, I suspect his real agenda is to specifically have MY posts
> prevented from appearing on the site. I don't think it's paranoia on
> my part, since he has suggested often enough in the past that I post
> to OTHER groups whenever I wish to discuss some political or
> religious topic, despite the fact that PLANET OF THE APES was--more
> than most films--a movie about politics and religion, and the kind of
> society that results from an intermixing of the two. I think that if
> some of the posters on this site dislike discussing politics &
> religion, they should just skip those posts and move on to the next
> one. POTA's one big smorgasbord, but the "meat and potatoes" of the
> Saga is the Politics & Religion: topics which are always explosive
> and argumentative, but topics which MUST be dealt with in the Real
> world. Their importance in the fictional world of POTA is paramount,
> since POTA is an allegorical satire of our Real world.
> Just WHO should be given the task of "moderating" this site? Who has
> the TIME to monitor a site which gets well over 1000 postings per
> month? Just as a vote for "None of the Above" would be an ideal
> choice in political elections (if, that is, no major party candidate
> was preferred over the other, and no minor party candidate was sane
> enough to consider), so too do I think that NOBODY should be granted
> the power to censor ANYBODY on this site... even those who get off
> on "flaming" me.
>
> Patrick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

His 2 cents was worth a mint when he explained to Cougar that he doesn't
read Patrick's posts! That was funny and original (like...if you don't read
his posts, how can you comment on the responses?!?).

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, 13 November 2002 5:37
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] New Group?

>
> *** Hey, Matt! Thanks for the 2 cents--it's worth a mint to me!
> Rory sent me a private E-mail, clarifying his sense of humor and the
> type of ribbing he does, so I don't take any offense at it (I think
> of it as being in the vein of those Dean Martin celebrity "roasts"
> that were regular fixtures of TV in the mid-1970's). But Whitty &
> Cougar, from my standpoint, tend to go out of their way to not only
> disagree with me (which is fine--I don't mind a debate), but to do so
> while hurling expletives: case in point, the former "2 words" bit.
> As for Mike's recent suggestion that we have somebody "moderate" this
> site, I suspect his real agenda is to specifically have MY posts
> prevented from appearing on the site. I don't think it's paranoia on
> my part, since he has suggested often enough in the past that I post
> to OTHER groups whenever I wish to discuss some political or
> religious topic, despite the fact that PLANET OF THE APES was--more
> than most films--a movie about politics and religion, and the kind of
> society that results from an intermixing of the two. I think that if
> some of the posters on this site dislike discussing politics &
> religion, they should just skip those posts and move on to the next
> one. POTA's one big smorgasbord, but the "meat and potatoes" of the
> Saga is the Politics & Religion: topics which are always explosive
> and argumentative, but topics which MUST be dealt with in the Real
> world. Their importance in the fictional world of POTA is paramount,
> since POTA is an allegorical satire of our Real world.
> Just WHO should be given the task of "moderating" this site? Who has
> the TIME to monitor a site which gets well over 1000 postings per
> month? Just as a vote for "None of the Above" would be an ideal
> choice in political elections (if, that is, no major party candidate
> was preferred over the other, and no minor party candidate was sane
> enough to consider), so too do I think that NOBODY should be granted
> the power to censor ANYBODY on this site... even those who get off
> on "flaming" me.
>
> Patrick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Rory ain't a good role model.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, 13 November 2002 6:16
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] New Group?

that's a not-too-uncommon Rory-type of mild "insult".

In a message dated 11/11/02 9:15:53 PM Central Standard Time,
whitty@... writes:

<< Is that the one with the mutants that have penis shaped heads? >>

I thought it was the noses that were penis shaped?

-Joe

You have a better memory than I!!!!

If anyone has any qusetions about penises, ask Joe!

--- CheeseGOTAS@... wrote:

> In a message dated 11/11/02 9:15:53 PM Central Standard Time,
> whitty@... writes:
>
> << Is that the one with the mutants that have penis shaped heads? >>
>
> I thought it was the noses that were penis shaped?
>
> -Joe

On Tuesday, November 12, 2002, at 02:14 PM, patrickmichaeltilton wrote:

> *** Nothing much changed? How about the huge influx of former slaves
> into the Northern states, where the demographics changed drastically?
>
> In the defeated South, those who fought for the Confederacy, who had
> wished to continue the practice of Slavery (out of a belief that
> Blacks were not equal to Whites), continued to harbor race-hatred.
> The Northerners, having won the war, tended to have more tolerant
> views of Blacks, though the ANCIENT tendency to keep from "race-
> mixing" remained part of the mix. It's one thing to advocate an end
> to Slavery; it's another thing to be totally in favor of
> allowing "mixed" marriages.

Racism was, and always has been, just as prevalent in the North as in the
South. Resentment and fear caused by the influx of "inferior" blacks led to
scores of lynchings in the North.

> Granted, the lynching of Blacks is a horrid part of history. No sane
> person defends it. But remember who perpetrated it: the defeated
> former Slaveholders, who resented their loss to the North and the
> loss of their "glorious" way of life which was now "gone with the
> wind".

Former slave owners had nothing to gain from lynching ex-slaves.

Most lynchings were perpetrated by lower- and middle-class whites who
resented being reduced to the same legal status as ex-slaves. Lynching a
black man for a crime, whether real or imagined, was one way for them to
prove their racial superiority. They weren't insane; they were dealing with
a drastic change in their lives in the only way they knew how. This change
was not just in the South.

ABMAC

Attachments :

.htmlIn a message dated 11/12/02 5:50:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, abmac@... writes:

Most lynchings were perpetrated by lower- and middle-class whites who
resented being reduced to the same legal status as ex-slaves. Lynching a
black man for a crime, whether real or imagined, was one way for them to
prove their racial superiority. They weren't insane; they were dealing with
a drastic change in their lives in the only way they knew how. This change
was not just in the South.

ABMAC

You, above all others, should understand!

Thought I'd help keep this on topic.


<.html

--- In pota@y..., "Anthony B. McElveen" <abmac@i...> wrote:

>
> On Tuesday, November 12, 2002, at 02:14 PM, patrickmichaeltilton

wrote:

>
> > *** Nothing much changed? How about the huge influx of former

slaves into the Northern states, where the demographics changed
drastically?

> >
> > In the defeated South, those who fought for the Confederacy, who

had wished to continue the practice of Slavery (out of a belief that
Blacks were not equal to Whites), continued to harbor race-hatred.
The Northerners, having won the war, tended to have more tolerant
views of Blacks, though the ANCIENT tendency to keep from "race-
mixing" remained part of the mix. It's one thing to advocate an end
to Slavery; it's another thing to be totally in favor of
allowing "mixed" marriages.

>
> Racism was, and always has been, just as prevalent in the North as

in the South. Resentment and fear caused by the influx of "inferior"
blacks led to scores of lynchings in the North.

>
> > Granted, the lynching of Blacks is a horrid part of history. No

sane person defends it. But remember who perpetrated it: the defeated
former Slaveholders, who resented their loss to the North and the
loss of their "glorious" way of life which was now "gone with the
wind".

>
> Former slave owners had nothing to gain from lynching ex-slaves.
>
> Most lynchings were perpetrated by lower- and middle-class whites

who resented being reduced to the same legal status as ex-slaves.
Lynching a black man for a crime, whether real or imagined, was one
way for them to prove their racial superiority. They weren't insane;
they were dealing with a drastic change in their lives in the only
way they knew how. This change was not just in the South.

>
> ABMAC

*** There's a difference between Racism (a bad thing) and Race-based
violence (a worse thing). Did I say the North was free of racism? No.
Neither did I say that the North was free of racial violence. But the
problem of racial violence was far worse in the South after the Civil
War than in the North. The "massive influx" of Blacks towards the
North after the Civil War was in great part due to their need to
escape that violence. The KKK wasn't restricted to the post-bellum
South, but they flourished there in far greater numbers than in the
North. Were there backlashes against that influx of Blacks in the
Northern states? Of course. But the situation was worse for ex-slaves
south of the Mason/Dixon line.
My reference to "Slaveholders" should probably have been, rather,
to "the group of people whose race made them 'masters' rather than
slaves", which would include all whites, even though not all southern
whites were wealthy enough to own slaves. Regardless, the non-slave-
owning whites in the South benefitted from the enslavement of Blacks,
though not directly (as did the actual 'masters').

Patrick

OK,

I didn't mean to start a civil war!

Nor did I expect the Spanish Inquisition.



--- "Anthony B. McElveen" <abmac@...> wrote:

>
> On Tuesday, November 12, 2002, at 02:14 PM, patrickmichaeltilton

wrote:

>
> > *** Nothing much changed? How about the huge influx of former

slaves

> > into the Northern states, where the demographics changed

drastically?

> >
> > In the defeated South, those who fought for the Confederacy, who

had

> > wished to continue the practice of Slavery (out of a belief that
> > Blacks were not equal to Whites), continued to harbor race-hatred.
> > The Northerners, having won the war, tended to have more tolerant
> > views of Blacks, though the ANCIENT tendency to keep from "race-
> > mixing" remained part of the mix. It's one thing to advocate an

end

> > to Slavery; it's another thing to be totally in favor of
> > allowing "mixed" marriages.
>
> Racism was, and always has been, just as prevalent in the North as

in the

> South. Resentment and fear caused by the influx of "inferior"

blacks led to

> scores of lynchings in the North.
>
> > Granted, the lynching of Blacks is a horrid part of history. No

sane

> > person defends it. But remember who perpetrated it: the defeated
> > former Slaveholders, who resented their loss to the North and the
> > loss of their "glorious" way of life which was now "gone with the
> > wind".
>
> Former slave owners had nothing to gain from lynching ex-slaves.
>
> Most lynchings were perpetrated by lower- and middle-class whites

who

> resented being reduced to the same legal status as ex-slaves.

Lynching a

> black man for a crime, whether real or imagined, was one way for

them to

> prove their racial superiority. They weren't insane; they were

dealing with

> a drastic change in their lives in the only way they knew how. This

change

> was not just in the South.
>
> ABMAC
>
>
>
>
>

>
>
>

Well, seeing as you are so frank I'll return the favour.

I have had about 3 serious (identifiable) mental breakdowns,
triggered by drug abuse (excessive pot/speed).

When I saw "A Beautiful Mind" recently it struck a chord. You would
have to watch the movie to understand.

I seriously wondered if you might have been heading down that path.

I am not being insulting here, just very open.

I am a person who constantly looks for cues that I might be losing
sight of reality, and anyone else who has an idea about this topic
would understand that sometimes we need people to say "Dude, you're
losing it".

The elaborate workings of some of your posts (and scenarios), and the
resultant alienation from "mainstream" POTA fans' limits of
acceptance, made me wonder if the gap between the sense this makes to
you and the lack of sense it makes to others could be a symptom.

I hpoe this makes it a bit clearer for you.

I also hope you don't take it as an insult, because that is not the
way this is intended.

Michael

From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@y...>
Date: Tue Nov 12, 2002 6:11 pm
Subject: Re: *** Speaking of nonsequitors...




*** Can you not see that there's a difference between NOT having
health, and being "only moderately healthy"? Let me clarify, then. I
don't eat 100% healthy foods all the time (like green beans,
cauliflower, broccoli, etc.), since I can't stand the taste of
such "healthy" foods--hence, I don't benefit from the effects that
such a health-conscious diet would afford. I don't have "Abs-of-
steel", because I don't work out like Arnold Schwarzenegger, either.
There are all sorts of guys out there who DO work out, honing their
musculature and all that--which is GREAT, but alas, is something I
don't have much time for. About 20 years ago I threw my back out
trying to help a friend get a heavy old car out of a muddy rut on a
non-paved back-country road, and for about 5 years I had to see a
chiropractor. My back is fine, now, but I tend to be wary of over-
stressing it, so as not to experience the kind of knife-in-the-spine
pain that vertebrae-pinched nerves can be. So, I'm not all that "big"
on exercise, other than a good, brisk walk now and then.
Thus, I'm not AS healthy as I would LIKE to be, as I could be if I
got more exercise (especially the intensive kind which results in
kick-ass, "ripped" musculature, like Circuit Training & Bench
Pressing, etc.)... but that hardly means that I'm in poor health. As
I said, I'm "only moderately healthy". NOT "unhealthy", or lacking in
health. I don't drink, smoke, do drugs, none of that garbage. I could
cut down on fast food (yeah, I find it quicker to do the "drive-thru"
than to bother about spending an hour preparing a home-cooked meal...
and I never did take "Home-Ec" class, or bother to learn how to be a
Chef: I can boil water and press the "On" button on the Microwave,
but that's about it!), but that's a minor matter.
Ah, but as far as my MENTAL health, well... the Brain is the thing I
tend to exercise more than anything else. I own over 2000 books, and
I tend to read at least 3 a week, not to mention the science-oriented
magazines I pore through (Scientific American, Discover, Popular
Science, Biblical Archaeology Review, Nat'l Geographic, etc.). My
mind gets plenty of exercise, and it's undoubtedly the healthiest
part of me.
Does this clarify the matter sufficiently?

Patrick

--- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@y...>
> Date: Thu Oct 31, 2002 10:33 pm
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] [OT] Jackass: The Movie
>
> --- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> >
> > > In my opinion, it's the funniest movie since "South Park:
Bigger, Longer, & Uncut".
> >
> > "A little nonsense now and then is cherished by the wisest men."
> > ~~~Willy Wonka~~~~
>
> *** Take THAT, Mikey! Thanks, T, for implying that I'm one of "the
> wisest men". I may not be wealthy, and I may be only moderately
> healthy
>
> and I may be only moderately healthy
>
> and I may be only moderately healthy
>
> and I may be only moderately healthy
>
> and I may be only moderately healthy
>
> and I may be only moderately healthy
>
>
> , but I'll take Wisdom any day.
>
>
>
>
> --- <veetus@e...> wrote:
> > Patrick, you did say in a post about a week ago about your
> health not being 100% but that was none of my business asking about
it.
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@y...>
> > To: <pota@y...>
> > Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 7:22 AM
> > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] MW's Inability to Make a Reasoned
> Argument,
> > Resorting to Expletive-laced Insults
> >
>
> > >
> > > *** Speaking of nonsequitors... what the hell are you blabbing
> about here? I don't recall having ever said that I do NOT have my
> health.

Attachments :

.htmlNOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!!!!!

--- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> OK,
>
> I didn't mean to start a civil war!
>
> Nor did I expect the Spanish Inquisition.

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: veetus@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 7:02 AM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] "Wars" is a wow! (OT)

  The picture quality of the new "Star Wars" DVD is astounding. It's shot with didgital cameras, so they transfer directly from the master to disc, with no film print in between. It's so clear it's almost 3D. For some that's the problem, not of that nostalgic film grain. With big cheeses like Spielberg preferring film, it's too soon to write it's obituary, so for now just enjoy digital as a different way to enjoy movies. You can bet Alex is cranking up this DVD. - - - Jeff

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Ken and Heather Taylor

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 1:46 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Whitty's questions on ApExpo2004

They O.D and choke on their own vomit.

----- Original Message -----

From: Michael Whitty

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 6:49 PM

Subject: RE: [Planet of the Apes] Whitty's questions on ApExpo2004

T

 

What happens in a band when members become dead weight and stop contributing?

-----Original Message-----
From: LordTZer0@... [LordTZer0@...]
Sent: Tuesday, 12 November 2002 16:07
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Whitty's questions on ApExpo2004

Are there facilities there or nearby to hold such an event?
Are there accommodation facilities?

If it'd be held in Century City, or very near by, I would guess that there certainly would be facilities to hold such an event, and guest/accommodation facilities in or near Century City as well...

I vote for the Escape location.  Then we can at least get a decent room at the Beverly Wilshire Hotel.  Then after the shopping trip, we can make an excursion to the San Diego Zoo.
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

Oh, I thought for sure you had abs of steel. Guess I was mistaken.
Patrick, have you learned any speed reading skills? I got the Mega Reading
course but I'm too lazy to work at it. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 10:11 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: *** Speaking of nonsequitors...


> *** Can you not see that there's a difference between NOT having
> health, and being "only moderately healthy"? Let me clarify, then. I
> don't eat 100% healthy foods all the time (like green beans,
> cauliflower, broccoli, etc.), since I can't stand the taste of
> such "healthy" foods--hence, I don't benefit from the effects that
> such a health-conscious diet would afford. I don't have "Abs-of-
> steel", because I don't work out like Arnold Schwarzenegger, either.
> There are all sorts of guys out there who DO work out, honing their
> musculature and all that--which is GREAT, but alas, is something I
> don't have much time for. About 20 years ago I threw my back out
> trying to help a friend get a heavy old car out of a muddy rut on a
> non-paved back-country road, and for about 5 years I had to see a
> chiropractor. My back is fine, now, but I tend to be wary of over-
> stressing it, so as not to experience the kind of knife-in-the-spine
> pain that vertebrae-pinched nerves can be. So, I'm not all that "big"
> on exercise, other than a good, brisk walk now and then.
> Thus, I'm not AS healthy as I would LIKE to be, as I could be if I
> got more exercise (especially the intensive kind which results in
> kick-ass, "ripped" musculature, like Circuit Training & Bench
> Pressing, etc.)... but that hardly means that I'm in poor health. As
> I said, I'm "only moderately healthy". NOT "unhealthy", or lacking in
> health. I don't drink, smoke, do drugs, none of that garbage. I could
> cut down on fast food (yeah, I find it quicker to do the "drive-thru"
> than to bother about spending an hour preparing a home-cooked meal...
> and I never did take "Home-Ec" class, or bother to learn how to be a
> Chef: I can boil water and press the "On" button on the Microwave,
> but that's about it!), but that's a minor matter.
> Ah, but as far as my MENTAL health, well... the Brain is the thing I
> tend to exercise more than anything else. I own over 2000 books, and
> I tend to read at least 3 a week, not to mention the science-oriented
> magazines I pore through (Scientific American, Discover, Popular
> Science, Biblical Archaeology Review, Nat'l Geographic, etc.). My
> mind gets plenty of exercise, and it's undoubtedly the healthiest
> part of me.
> Does this clarify the matter sufficiently?
>
> Patrick
>
>
> --- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@y...>
> > Date: Thu Oct 31, 2002 10:33 pm
> > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] [OT] Jackass: The Movie
> >
> > --- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> > >
> > > > In my opinion, it's the funniest movie since "South Park:
> Bigger, Longer, & Uncut".
> > >
> > > "A little nonsense now and then is cherished by the wisest men."
> > > ~~~Willy Wonka~~~~
> >
> > *** Take THAT, Mikey! Thanks, T, for implying that I'm one of "the
> > wisest men". I may not be wealthy, and I may be only moderately
> > healthy
> >
> > and I may be only moderately healthy
> >
> > and I may be only moderately healthy
> >
> > and I may be only moderately healthy
> >
> > and I may be only moderately healthy
> >
> > and I may be only moderately healthy
> >
> >
> > , but I'll take Wisdom any day.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- <veetus@e...> wrote:
> > > Patrick, you did say in a post about a week ago about your
> > health not being 100% but that was none of my business asking about
> it.
> >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@y...>
> > > To: <pota@y...>
> > > Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2002 7:22 AM
> > > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] MW's Inability to Make a Reasoned
> > Argument,
> > > Resorting to Expletive-laced Insults
> > >
> >
> > > >
> > > > *** Speaking of nonsequitors... what the hell are you blabbing
> > about here? I don't recall having ever said that I do NOT have my
> > health.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

He hated it but he told me he couldn't wait for the DVD because of it's
pure digital source. There's enough in there for fans of technology you
don't have to like the movie. If ever there was a movie to crank up, it's
this one. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: <MTotsky@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 11:36 AM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] "Wars" is a wow! (OT)


> Jeff wrote:
>
> <<You can bet Alex is cranking up this DVD.>>
>
> I seem to recall him hating the film.
>
> Matt
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

It could be that Teacher also teaches humans, but that was a class
specifically for apes. Maybe they are segregated. From the POV of the story
it shows the apes have special privileges and the humans aren't their
equals. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 12:14 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Lynch Mobs; also, Integration &
Race-Mixing [On topic]


> --- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > Again you misquote me. I was making the point that this "freedom"
> was not much more than taking away their chains. There was no real
> change in attitude, just a slight pay rise. Nothing much changed for
> a long time, and any black man that slept with (or, often, looked at)
> a white woman was strung up. So what is the point of that sort of
> freedom? That's all I was saying.
>
> *** Nothing much changed? How about the huge influx of former slaves
> into the Northern states, where the demographics changed drastically?
>
> In the defeated South, those who fought for the Confederacy, who had
> wished to continue the practice of Slavery (out of a belief that
> Blacks were not equal to Whites), continued to harbor race-hatred.
> The Northerners, having won the war, tended to have more tolerant
> views of Blacks, though the ANCIENT tendency to keep from "race-
> mixing" remained part of the mix. It's one thing to advocate an end
> to Slavery; it's another thing to be totally in favor of
> allowing "mixed" marriages. Changing such race-driven views is not an
> overnight procedure; it takes TIME for any society to amend itself.
> The Founders, in writing the Constitution, built out of non-perfect
> people, a country which was designed to improve over time, through
> the amending of the Constitution (among other things) "... in order
> to form a more perfect Union": that is, a perfectible (if not
> perfect) society. America has always been a "work in progress"; it
> has NEVER been "perfect", although the goal of Perfection was one
> that its Founders hoped, in time, to achieve.
>
> Granted, the lynching of Blacks is a horrid part of history. No sane
> person defends it. But remember who perpetrated it: the defeated
> former Slaveholders, who resented their loss to the North and the
> loss of their "glorious" way of life which was now "gone with the
> wind". Changing the ingrained racist mindsets of an entire population
> is immensely difficult, especially when the practice of
> institutionalized racism (Slavery) was condoned and endorsed by the
> religious institutions, who could quote the Bible selectively to
> find "support" for it.
>
> I was shocked that you could suggest that the Slaves were freed so
> that they could be lynched. The ones who freed them didn't go off and
> do the lynching; the lynch mobs were comprised of those who would
> have still been the "masters" had they not lost the war. Sort of like
> when Kolp, pistol in hand, taunts Caesar in BATTLE, wishing to become
> a "master" of Ape slaves yet again...
>
> There were people who opposed the Integration of blacks and whites in
> the same schools, NOT because they were racists, but because they
> genuinely believed that NOT mixing the races was better for both
> whites and blacks. A similar argument has been made for having all-
> boy and all-girl schools, since some argue that girls do better in
> school when not intimidated by the social pressures of "co-ed"
> education. [Similar arguments are made for an "all-male" (yet "No
> gays") military.]
> Myself, I prefer co-ed and pro-integration policies. Then again, I
> didn't have the option to go to a ritzy private school, so I'll never
> know how much different things would have been for me.
>
> Incidentally, am I the only one who wonders why a human ("Teacher")
> teaches a class of Apes... with no human students present? Aren't
> there any human children in need of schooling? What about the kid
> playing war with young Cornelius? Why isn't HE present in
> that "school" scene? A human can teach there, so why can't any humans
> be taught there, too? Are they too busy doing the work of slaves, for
> the Apes? Is "Teacher" a slave, doing the work he's best suited to
> do?
>
> Patrick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

You guys are reading stuff into that. It was not the author's intention
for their noses to look like penuses. Patrick, what's your theory on how
they got penusesque noses? - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: <whitty@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Veetus


> You have a better memory than I!!!!
>
> If anyone has any qusetions about penises, ask Joe!
>
> --- CheeseGOTAS@... wrote:
> > In a message dated 11/11/02 9:15:53 PM Central Standard Time,
> > whitty@... writes:
> >
> > << Is that the one with the mutants that have penis shaped heads? >>
> >
> > I thought it was the noses that were penis shaped?
> >
> > -Joe
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Michael,

According to one episode guide, the year (and other history) of Saru
no Gundan is revealed in episode 18 to be 2983 AD.

It is surprising that the AOTA series was not made available to the
English-language market as well with subtitles. What I find more
surprising is that no one in Japan has thought of doing their own
remake feature film based on Saru no Gundan, even if only for the
Japanese market. Modern special effects and a decent budget could
make a great film of that material.

Menluth

¡¡Check out the "Saru no Gundan - Time of the Apes" Yahoo mailing
list on http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sarunogundan !!

--- In pota@y..., "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@y...>
wrote:

> *** I only saw TOTA once, years ago on a "late nite" movie, and
> thought of it as nothing more than a Jap rip-off of POTA; having

now

> heard that it was a truncated version of a 26 (?) episode series
> which actually had more to it than the shorter version let on, I'd
> like to at least give it a see, if the Japanese would bother to do

an

> English subtitled version and offer it for sale over here. Maybe I
> would appreciate it more... maybe I'd still think ill of it, but

it'd

> be nice to get the thing in its entirety before passing final
> judgment on it.
> Just out of curiosity, is it mentioned anywhere in TOTA exactly

what

> year it takes place in? What "time" (date) does "Time of the Apes"
> happen? If it's after 3955 or 3978, that would rule out its

inclusion

> in the "canon" (as far as I'm concerned).
> You'd think that the Japanese would have tried to capitalize on

the

> renewed interest in POTA (when Burton's film was in the works),

and

> release TOTA in a deluxe package. Why didn't they take advantage

of

> that "window" of opportunity?
>
> Patrick
>
> --- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > Well hang on a second...let's see how he explains it first.
> >
> > Maybe he is saying at some time period that's what the Jap apes
> were doin'.
> >
> > Explain, Menluth!
> >
> > --- Haristas@a... wrote:
> > > In a message dated 11/10/02 11:24:25 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > > whitty@c... writes:
> > >
> > >
> > > TOTA is not really my cup of tea, but it is good to have you

here

> to tell us about it and why you like it.
> > >
> > > Michael
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yeah, I have no problem with that, BUT. . . . he did say that

he

> thinks it should be a candidate for consideration as POTA canon.
> Them word's really make me go ape.
> > >
> > > -- Rory
> > >

.htmlIn a message dated 11/12/02 10:17:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

  Since Rory seemed curious, I went back to Circuit City to see what TV they were showing POTA2001 on last night (tonight it was "Apollo 13"). It's a 57" widescreen High Def Projection TV with VirtualHD - - $2499.99. Pretty darn good. I could see out the apes' windows. - - - Jeff

Man, you should have brought you PLANET DVD and asked them to play some of the movie.  You could have told them it's a non-anamorphic transfer and you wanted to see how it looked.  Then you could have said, "I'll need to watch this for awhile to see if I like this set."  Then after the movie was over you could just say, "Well, I need some time to make up my mind."  And then just leave.

Go back there and do that and give me a report.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/12/02 10:40:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

  It could be that Teacher also teaches humans, but that was a class
specifically for apes. Maybe they are segregated. From the POV of the story
it shows the apes have special privileges and the humans aren't their
equals. - - - Jeff

I can't imagine that sweetie General Aldo sitting in the same class with "humans."  He wouldn't even sit in council with them.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/12/02 10:48:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

  You guys are reading stuff into that. It was not the author's intention
for their noses to look like penuses. Patrick, what's your theory on how
they got penusesque noses? - - - Jeff

That would be penises, Jeff, and it's obvious your depiction of the mutants as looking like that was a subliminal suggestion THAT YOU'RE GAY!

Or, at the very least, you have trouble with owning a penis, like perhaps you see your penis as something that's a mutant, or a freak?   Perhaps you want it cut off so you can live your life as the woman you really are?

Whitty, what do YOU think?   Do you still want to visit L.A. and meet Jeff?  He might turn out to be a chubby chaser, but since he seems to want Patrick to ponder these things I think you're safe.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/12/02 10:54:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, menluth@... writes:

¡¡Check out the "Saru no Gundan - Time of the Apes" Yahoo mailing
list on http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sarunogundan !!

Did they ever make "Saru no Gundan" action figures in Japan?<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/12/2002 10:48:25 PM Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

Did they ever make "Saru no Gundan" action figures in Japan?

Time of the Apes figures were made... They show up on eBay every once in awhile... <.html

Well why don't you take my expo idea seriously, do a bit of research,
and put forward some proposals/alternatives?

Even if it does not happen, it beats the shit outta some of the stuff
we're talkin' about here!

If you do a good job, you could even put it on your resume!

Michael

--- Haristas@... wrote:

> I have had about 3 serious (identifiable) mental breakdowns,
> triggered by drug abuse (excessive pot/speed).
>
>
> I think I've had two mental breakdowns, but they were triggered by

stress and

> depression.
>
> And if I don't find a job soon I'll probably have another one.
>
> Rory
>

.htmlBoy, do you have a one track mind.

Seriously, I don't think there's more than five or six guys in the world that would be interested.

It would have to be part of a greater Expo.<.html

.htmlJust replying to Whitty's post from a few days ago....

But I think step one is to decide if you want to think the TV Series
is supposed to fit in with the movies or be an "alternative POTA
universe" thing, or maybe even an "alternative timeline" thing.

Opinions will very on this, and even in my own mind I'm not sure "where" it fits... But for simplicities sake, we'll just say it is "earlier" in the Apes timeline, before the total decline of mankind... Particularly in writings (the novelizations are a good example) and a lot of Burke's quips (" You can't reach these people Alan... They just roll over 'n play dead"...) it seems the human's mental capacity is on the decline, and they just take whatever comes their way without ever challenging it... It's accepted as "that's the way it is..." To me, this indicates the "cerebral laziness" described in Boulle's book as what is occuring in the humans, each generation getting dumber, etc... So, it could be earlier in the Apes timeline...

Also, where is it set?  East Coast?  West Coast?

The tv series that was on in ' 74 was set in the what was California.... If we're discussing the "fantasy" tv comeback of an Apes tv series, personally I have no preference in where it'd be set...

Ken Taylor always reminds me of "The Disc" sub plot...remember the
disc they got from a computer (then lost it)?

Actually, the disc was salvaged from the ship, and saved in hopes that they might some day stumble across a computer that could interpret the disc to find out what went wrong... It was never said that the disc was lost... It was dropped in a fight in "The Gladiators" episode, then given back to them at the end by Barlow... I guess if the disc "was" lost, it'd have been taken away from Virdon when he was a captive in "The Legacy"...

This would make for a recurring theme a la X-Files (a point Jeff made
I totally agreed with).

Agreed, I'd have no problem with the disc being a recurring subplot... <.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 8:35 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] "Wars" is a wow! (OT)

In a message dated 11/12/02 10:17:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

  Since Rory seemed curious, I went back to Circuit City to see what TV they were showing POTA2001 on last night (tonight it was "Apollo 13"). It's a 57" widescreen High Def Projection TV with VirtualHD - - $2499.99. Pretty darn good. I could see out the apes' windows. - - - Jeff

Man, you should have brought you PLANET DVD and asked them to play some of the movie.  You could have told them it's a non-anamorphic transfer and you wanted to see how it looked.  Then you could have said, "I'll need to watch this for awhile to see if I like this set."  Then after the movie was over you could just say, "Well, I need some time to make up my mind."  And then just leave.

Go back there and do that and give me a report.

-- Rory
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 8:45 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Veetus

In a message dated 11/12/02 10:48:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

  You guys are reading stuff into that. It was not the author's intention
for their noses to look like penuses. Patrick, what's your theory on how
they got penusesque noses? - - - Jeff

That would be penises, Jeff, and it's obvious your depiction of the mutants as looking like that was a subliminal suggestion THAT YOU'RE GAY!

Or, at the very least, you have trouble with owning a penis, like perhaps you see your penis as something that's a mutant, or a freak?   Perhaps you want it cut off so you can live your life as the woman you really are?

Whitty, what do YOU think?   Do you still want to visit L.A. and meet Jeff?  He might turn out to be a chubby chaser, but since he seems to want Patrick to ponder these things I think you're safe.

-- Rory
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/13/02 1:14:20 AM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

  What for? I've seen a pristine remastered print at the Motion Picture Academy, son. Everything else is subpar. - - - Jeff

D'oh!!!!<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: mlccougar@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 8:51 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] TOTA

In a message dated 11/12/2002 10:48:25 PM Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

Did they ever make "Saru no Gundan" action figures in Japan?

Time of the Apes figures were made... They show up on eBay every once in awhile...

<.html

In a message dated 11/12/2002 10:35:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, <veetus@...> writes:

<<He hated it but he told me he couldn't wait for the DVD because of it's pure digital source. There's enough in there for fans of technology you don't have to like the movie. If ever there was a movie to crank up, it's this one.>>

It kills me that people will part with their hard earned cash to buy a movie they don't like. Our pal Rory doesn't let a chance slip by to blast POTA 2001 or the TV Series, but I know for a fact that he bought the DVDs as soon as they came out last week.

Matt

I wrote:

<< but I know for a fact that he bought the DVDs as soon as they came out last week.>>

I meant last year.

Matt

I know what you mean. I just taped POTA2001 off of cable myself. Too
many people either go to films or buy the DVD even if they didn't
like it. That's why Hollywood keeps producing crap. If a film is
good, support it. But if it's bad don't throw your money away on it.

--- In pota@y..., MTotsky@a... wrote:
> It kills me that people will part with their hard earned cash to
buy a movie they don't like. Our pal Rory doesn't let a chance slip
by to blast POTA 2001 or the TV Series, but I know for a fact that he
bought the DVDs as soon as they came out last week.
>
> Matt

.htmlIn a message dated 11/14/02 10:43:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, MTotsky@... writes:

Our pal Rory doesn't let a chance slip by to blast POTA 2001 or the TV Series, but I know for a fact that he bought the DVDs as soon as they came out last week.

Matt

What the...?!!!  You mean last year.  Yeah, well they're APES.  I may not like them, but they're APES.  So there!  Get off my back!<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/14/02 11:14:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

I know what you mean. I just taped POTA2001 off of cable myself. Too
many people either go to films or buy the DVD even if they didn't
like it. That's why Hollywood keeps producing crap. If a film is
good, support it. But if it's bad don't throw your money away on it.

The proper study of Apes is Apes.  You humans don't buy the DVds because you're CHEAP!  Admit it!<.html

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:

>
> The proper study of Apes is Apes. You humans don't buy the DVds

because

> you're CHEAP! Admit it!

No but we're not all independently wealthy like you and can't afford
to throw our money away on crap.

.html

I know what you mean. I just taped POTA2001 off of cable myself. Too
many people either go to films or buy the DVD even if they didn't
like it. That's why Hollywood keeps producing crap. If a film is
good, support it. But if it's bad don't throw your money away on it.

I had 3 versions.  First Alex sent me a tape of his boot dvd, then I had the cable tape, but when the dvd cam out, and I finally got a player, I had to have it.  POTA2K1 and Buckaroo Banzai were the only discs with that many extras, and the only ones ever made with the short lived Nuon features.  I may have to buy a deck that's Nuon capable, just to see what they were!

<.html

WOW Must be nice to be rich.

--- In pota@y..., LordTZer0@A... wrote:
>
> I had 3 versions. First Alex sent me a tape of his boot dvd, then
I had the
> cable tape, but when the dvd cam out, and I finally got a player, I
had to
> have it. POTA2K1 and Buckaroo Banzai were the only discs with that
many
> extras, and the only ones ever made with the short lived Nuon
features. I
> may have to buy a deck that's Nuon capable, just to see what they
were!

.htmlIn a message dated 11/14/02 2:13:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

No but we're not all independently wealthy like you and can't afford
to throw our money away on crap.

What crap are we talking about, and who's independently wealthy?<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/14/02 3:16:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

WOW Must be nice to be rich.

Look who's talking!  How much does it cost to live in NYC, Mr. Jimmy?<.html

It costs a lot so I can't afford the throw my money away on DVD of
substandard movies.

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> Look who's talking! How much does it cost to live in NYC, Mr.
Jimmy?

.htmlIn a message dated 11/14/02 6:09:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

It costs a lot so I can't afford the throw my money away on DVD of
substandard movies.

MOVE!<.html

Why should I support mediocrity?

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
>
> MOVE!

.htmlIn a message dated 11/14/02 6:31:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

Why should I support mediocrity?

How do you know you're not already?<.html

Well that's just a matter of taste. But I don't buy something if I
didn't like it.

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> How do you know you're not already?

.htmlIn a message dated 11/14/02 6:53:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

Well that's just a matter of taste. But I don't buy something if I
didn't like it.

I don't buy anything if I don't like it either -- which means I NEVER buy a movie I haven't already seen -- but with POTA2001 it was a matter of I had to have the "record" of this things unfortunate existence.  You know what I mean?

Have you seen "Them!" yet, James?

-- Rory<.html

--- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:

> I don't buy anything if I don't like it either -- which means I

NEVER buy a

> movie I haven't already seen -- but with POTA2001 it was a matter

of I had to

> have the "record" of this things unfortunate existence. You know

what I

> mean?

Yes that's why I taped it off cable. But I wouldn't give them any
more money for it.

>
> Have you seen "Them!" yet, James?

No.

Hey, I enjoy POTA2001 and "Episode 2". I wish they could've been better
but with the extras it's worth the dough. Fox made money from POTA2001 but
they consider it a failure. The correct message was sent. I guess everyone
should buy "Minority Report" since it's supposed to be such a good sci-fi
movie. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 8:11 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: "Wars" is a wow! (OT)


> I know what you mean. I just taped POTA2001 off of cable myself. Too
> many people either go to films or buy the DVD even if they didn't
> like it. That's why Hollywood keeps producing crap. If a film is
> good, support it. But if it's bad don't throw your money away on it.
>
> --- In pota@y..., MTotsky@a... wrote:
> > It kills me that people will part with their hard earned cash to
> buy a movie they don't like. Our pal Rory doesn't let a chance slip
> by to blast POTA 2001 or the TV Series, but I know for a fact that he
> bought the DVDs as soon as they came out last week.
> >
> > Matt
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

The studios will do just fine without your dough. Save it for a rainy
day. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "james611102" <JamesA1102@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2002 3:29 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: "Wars" is a wow! (OT)


> Why should I support mediocrity?
>
> --- In pota@y..., Haristas@a... wrote:
> >
> > MOVE!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html <.html

.html
Leonardo DiCaprio Goes Ape
Hollywood hunk Leonardo DiCaprio was spotted locking lips with a species far less attractive than his usual leading ladies - a gorilla. The Titanic star's inter-species kiss was part of his promotion for the Dian Fossey Gorilla Fund, an organization attempting to protect the species, for which he serves as a patron. The Gangs Of New York star says, "I'm truly honored to be a patron of this organization. They do so much good for a vanishing species that we have truly taken for granted."

D'Oh!!!!   I thought this was going to be about something else!

-- Rory

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, November 15, 2002 5:03 AM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Kiss the monkey!

Leonardo DiCaprio Goes Ape
Hollywood hunk Leonardo DiCaprio was spotted locking lips with a species far less attractive than his usual leading ladies - a gorilla. The Titanic star's inter-species kiss was part of his promotion for the Dian Fossey Gorilla Fund, an organization attempting to protect the species, for which he serves as a patron. The Gangs Of New York star says, "I'm truly honored to be a patron of this organization. They do so much good for a vanishing species that we have truly taken for granted."

D'Oh!!!!   I thought this was going to be about something else!

-- Rory


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

<.html

Due to the recent concern regarding off topic posts and other problems, I
took it upon myself to start a new group. I have no intention of leaving the
POTA list, but I thought there might be an interest for others who wish to
engage in a more general movie (and more intense off-ape-topic) discussion.

The new group located at yahoogroups.com and is called Film and Pop Culture
Emporium. The email address is filmemporium@yahoogroups.com. Please go and
join if you are interested. Here is the description of the group:

This group is dedicated to talk and gossip regarding any and all movies and
DVDs as well as related industry gossip. Feel free to talk about current
films or classic films - your favorite actors, actresses, directors,
composers, etc. - from any genre - sci-fi, drama, horror, comedy, animation,
whatever. If you see a movie or DVD one day, post your thoughts on it the
next. Discussion is also welcome on television programs, collectibles and
other similar topics.

The basic goal of this list is to inform and entertain. Playful (and often
childish) shenanigans and banter are encouraged, but please refrain from
personal attacks, flame wars, mindless profanity and endless discussions
about politics, religion or other sensitive topics. Keep it fun!

Again, this new group was not created to compete with the POTA group, but
rather as a supplement to it. I like the POTA group the way it is and I enjoy
the off-topic posts, but if they are upsetting some members, then perhaps the
Film and Pop Culture Emporium is necessary. Let me know what you think, and
if you're interested in this, please join.

Matt

.htmlWhere is everybody?  Do I have to do ALL the posting in this group?  Come on you damn human bastards!

What's everybody doing this weekend?  I'll be seeing HARRY POTTER today.  Of course you can all imagine how excited I am about that, but I like going to the movies and eating popcorn, so that's that.

-- Rory<.html

If you're interested in joining my new list "Film and Pop Culture Emporium"
here's what to do:

Subscribe: filmemporium-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

I hope someone besides me joins this list.

Matt

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 7:07 AM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] OK!!!!

Where is everybody?  Do I have to do ALL the posting in this group?  Come on you damn human bastards!

What's everybody doing this weekend?  I'll be seeing HARRY POTTER today.  Of course you can all imagine how excited I am about that, but I like going to the movies and eating popcorn, so that's that.

-- Rory
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

<.html

Check out this new place for Auctions and Fixed price Sales (no
listing fee).

I personally liked the amazing : "AUTO-RELIST UNTIL SOLD" option.


HTTP://www.sellatonce.com


regards

Fred

Hi all.im new, but a HUGE POTA fan. Ive just completed (finally) my
collection of every POTA related thing ever put on tape. Ive got the
series of movies on dvd and vhs, the tv series on dvd, and just today
got my 2 vhs copies of the ANIMATED SERIES!! wow. this is some good
stuff..some of the best story lines ive ever seen and watched.
really, if you all dont have this, well then you are missing out!! im
sitting here on a rainy saturday afternoon eating bacon and eggs and
cereal, watching POTA cartoons...just like i did when I was 6!!! this
is great.any POTA fans in the Chicago area? love to chat/meet ya.
take care..

KC

.htmlIn a message dated 11/16/02 11:43:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

By the way, anyone see AMC's "The Alien Saga", made by the same people who did "Behind the POTA"? - - - Jeff

I saw some of it.  It was good.  What did you think?  I have the first two on DVD.  Rarely watch them, old boy.

By the way, the new HARRY POTTER bored the crap out of me.  That's it for me and 'those' movies.

-- Rory<.html

Attachments :

.htmlIn a message dated 11/16/02 4:28:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, chicagofunfun@... writes:

Hi all.im new, but a HUGE POTA fan. Ive just completed (finally) my
collection of every POTA related thing ever put on tape. Ive got the
series of movies on dvd and vhs, the tv series on dvd, and just today
got my 2 vhs copies of the ANIMATED SERIES!! wow. this is some good
stuff..some of the best story lines ive ever seen and watched.
really, if you all dont have this, well then you are missing out!! im
sitting here on a rainy saturday afternoon eating bacon and eggs and
cereal, watching POTA cartoons...just like i did when I was 6!!! this
is great.any POTA fans in the Chicago area? love to chat/meet ya.
take care..

KC

Hey KC!  (Love your Sunshine Band, by the way)

Do you have the 2-disc Special Edition of "Behind the Planet of the Apes"?   It's a must have.

-- Rory
<.html

.html

I can't find it.  This seems to be a common problem.  I can't find my school's Japanese group either.  But if someone would send me a link . . . .<.html

.html

"Behind the POTA" director Kevin Burns, who now owns "Lost in Space", has said he wanted to do a reunion movie that would serve as a springboard for a "Next Generation" - type "Lost in Space" series. Apparently he succeeded just in time.

Sounds like he was a little last to me.  They should have done a show where they got rescued.  Then they would be all old and stuff.  The ravages of time ... then maybe the new show could be a tad more serious and not quite to hokey.  Not that I don't like a bit of cheese, but I think the show sometimes got a bit silly.<.html

.html
Welcome to the group KC.  It should come with a warning label but consider this it.  Some days will be kind of slow and others the fur will fly fast and furious when we fight like apes.  It's all in good fun though . . . I think?  Some of us tend to take it a little on the extreme side of serious.  Feel free to give anyone out of line an e-smack across the chops.  We've all learned to be pretty thick skinned in this group.  One final warning before you enter the Forbidden Zone...Beware of Pat's Posts, for he is the devil's prawn.  He will make a desert of my computer and yours!  Trying to get to the end of one of them is a bit like crossing a desert.  It's very dry and takes a long time.  Actually some of it can be quite interesting, just don't get him started on the mothership theory, and whatever you do, for God sake, don't mention the map!<.html

an excellent idea!!!

--- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:
> I think I have touched on this before, but let's elaborate.
>
> Wouldn't it be lovely to hold an Apes Expo? A well organised
> celebration of POTA. Maybe at the "Ape City" location (at the old
> Fox Ranch). Maybe somewhere else (at Rory's place, or
Jeff's)?
>
> Would this be practical?
>
> Are there facilities there or nearby to hold such an event?
>
> Are there accommodation facilities?
>
> Who would you invite (Bill Blake, Authors of books, vendors)?
>
> Is there a spot to organise a "Go Ape" movie Marathon?
>
> How did the POTA themed expo in NY go recently (ie, would it
be
> commercially viable, could we get sponsors so we could
maybe pay
> guest stars to appear, would this be an excellent forum to invite
Fox
> personnel to/tell them our thoughts?).
>
> Comments?

sorry i'm still catching up from not reading posts for a few
days....okay so the expo won;t happen but meeting would be
great....jeff...do you think Natalie would come?

tim

--- In pota@y..., <veetus@e...> wrote:
> The Fox Ranch is now a preserve so I doubt it's open to
parties. We had to
> tip-toe around there. Zuma Beach would be cool, where the
Statue scene and
> the cave were filmed. - - - Jeff
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <whitty@c...>
> To: <pota@y...>
> Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 8:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] ApExpo 2004
>
>
> > OK then
> >
> > Forget the Expo!
> >
> > Not long ago we were al throwing around the idea of getting
together
> > somewhere, sometime?
> >
> > Would the old Fox Ranch location be a good spot?
> >
> > Are there facilities there?
> >
> > Is there a local movie theatre?
> >
> > Are there decent Hotels?
> >
> >
> > --- <veetus@e...> wrote:
> > > When the movie came out they had 4 or 5 "Ape" people at
a
> > convention in
> > > NY, but it was still part of a larger convention. As far as I
know
> > no one
> > > has done a convention specifically about "Apes", like they
have
> > for "Star
> > > Wars" or "Star Trek". People like Linda Harrison, Booth
Colman, Don
> > Pedro
> > > Colley and Buck Kartalian make the rounds. It would be
hard to do a
> > really
> > > great convention 'cause everybody's dead. No Roddy, Kim,
directors,
> > Heston
> > > probably wouldn't do it. We kind of did "Ape" conventions
promoting
> > Greene's
> > > book, but the turnout wasn't great. The time to do it would
have
> > been around
> > > the new movie. Now it's on a down cycle. "Apes" has to
come to
> > people
> > > (fanzines, websites); they won't go to it. - - - Jeff
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...>
> > > To: <pota@y...>
> > > Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 12:40 PM
> > > Subject: RE: [Planet of the Apes] ApExpo 2004
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hey Jeff
> > > >
> > > > Could you try to answer at least one of the questions
anyway,
> > since you
> > > are
> > > > likely to know the answer and this could be an interesting
post
> > if I could
> > > > hear your voice over those crickets?
> > > >
> > > > If you look at the takings for the opening weekend of Apes
2001,
> > you will
> > > > see that there are a LOT of interested persons. They just
seem
> > to be
> > > > looking for quality and planning if you ask me.
> > > >
> > > > I seem to recall somewhere (I thought it was NY) there
was
> > an "Ape Themed"
> > > > show with 4 ot 5 POTA (classic) guest stars.
> > > >
> > > > My next post is about Eminem, so that will balance it out (I
> > promise not
> > > to
> > > > stick to Apes for too long!).
> > > >
> > > > Michael
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: veetus@e... [veetus@e...]
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, 12 November 2002 3:11
> > > > > To: pota@y...
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] ApExpo 2004
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't think POTA is popular enough for something
like that.
> > We can't
> > > > > even get people to post on this group, let alone travel
> > > > > somewhere. There was
> > > > > an Apespo in NY? - - - Jeff
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: <whitty@c...>
> > > > > To: <pota@y...>
> > > > > Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 12:44 AM
> > > > > Subject: [Planet of the Apes] ApExpo 2004
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > I think I have touched on this before, but let's
elaborate.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Wouldn't it be lovely to hold an Apes Expo? A well
organised
> > > > > > celebration of POTA. Maybe at the "Ape City" location
(at
> > the old
> > > > > > Fox Ranch). Maybe somewhere else (at Rory's place,
or
> > Jeff's)?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Would this be practical?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Are there facilities there or nearby to hold such an
event?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Are there accommodation facilities?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Who would you invite (Bill Blake, Authors of books,
vendors)?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is there a spot to organise a "Go Ape" movie
Marathon?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > How did the POTA themed expo in NY go recently (ie,
would it
> > be
> > > > > > commercially viable, could we get sponsors so we
could maybe
> > pay
> > > > > > guest stars to appear, would this be an excellent
forum to
> > invite Fox
> > > > > > personnel to/tell them our thoughts?).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Comments?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

> >
> >

Well, I for one would go to an Ape Expo...."Farscape"ers have
their own...why not Apesters? I'm sure Linda Harrison would go
...she goes to every con!....

I was wanting to know......Jeff (or anyone else)...why not make up
a "Visitor's Guide to the Planet of the Apes"...and include sites
and directions to all Apes locations .......Century City, Zuma
Beach, Fox Ranch, all the Escape locations....where the Caeser
statue is......Lake Powell, hell...even Jefferson Public School in
Fort Wayne Indiana! It could have actual movie filming sites as
well as anything mentioned in the saga...I assume you have
visited most LA spots...i would like to visit all and take pics of
locations now comparing them to in the films....
A friend of mine worked as the Art Director on a TV movie filmed
here a few years ago and Bill Creber was the designer (I got to
meet him, got him to reluctantly sign a photo of Ape City....he's
sorta crusty but he had good stories...he says he's got a few
models of the buildings as well the spaceship model in a box
somewhere!) but possibly I could get some specific detailed
directions to exact spots that were used........

any other ideas?

tim

.htmlIn a message dated 11/16/02 4:40:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

Sounds like he was a little last to me.  They should have done a show where they got rescued.  Then they would be all old and stuff.  The ravages of time ... then maybe the new show could be a tad more serious and not quite to hokey.  Not that I don't like a bit of cheese, but I think the show sometimes got a bit silly.

I would have liked to have seen an episode of one of the new "Star Trek" shows where they find Dr. Smith and the robot drifting through space in a derelict ship living together like an old gay couple.  They're taken aboard one of the Federation ships and Dr. Smith tries to take it over so he can get back to earth.  Stupid I know, but I just wanted to see the robot again.  Oh well.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/16/02 4:56:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

Some of us tend to take it a little on the extreme side of serious.

I'm sure glad I'm not one of those people!<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/16/02 6:30:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, apefan23@... writes:

Well, I for one would go to an Ape Expo...."Farscape"ers have
their own...why not Apesters? I'm sure Linda Harrison would go
...she goes to every con!....

I was wanting to know......Jeff (or anyone else)...why not make up
a "Visitor's Guide to the Planet of the Apes"...and include sites
and directions to all Apes locations .......Century City, Zuma
Beach, Fox Ranch, all the Escape locations....where the Caeser
statue is......Lake Powell, hell...even Jefferson Public School in
Fort Wayne Indiana! It could have actual movie filming sites as
well as anything mentioned in the saga...I assume you have
visited most LA spots...i would like to visit all and take pics of
locations now comparing them to in the films....
A friend of mine worked as the Art Director on a TV movie filmed
here a few years ago and Bill Creber was the designer  (I got to
meet him, got him to reluctantly sign a photo of Ape City....he's
sorta crusty but he had good stories...he says he's got a few
models of the buildings as well the spaceship model in a box
somewhere!)  but possibly I could get some specific detailed
directions to exact spots that were used........

any other ideas?

tim

This sounds like a job for Jeff Krueger, but he probably wouldn't do it.   He's very crusty, especially after a few days of not changing his underwear.  Yeah, Krusty Krueger, that's what they call him.  Boy, I'd sure like to meet Bill Creber, but I'd ask him so many questions he'd probably say mean things to me.  I'd cry and it would taint my affection for APES from that day on.

-- Rory<.html

T:

Just send an email to this address: filmemporium-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

You will then get an email and all you have to do is reply and you're in.

Let me know if you have any more trouble.

Matt

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 1:30 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] "Lost" and Found (OT)

In a message dated 11/16/02 11:43:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

By the way, anyone see AMC's "The Alien Saga", made by the same people who did "Behind the POTA"? - - - Jeff

I saw some of it.  It was good.  What did you think?  I have the first two on DVD.  Rarely watch them, old boy.

By the way, the new HARRY POTTER bored the crap out of me.  That's it for me and 'those' movies.

-- Rory
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

Linda Harrison only goes if there's a buck to be made. And Natalie usually
doesn't go even if there's a buck to made. So why not pass the buck to Buck?
Buck Kartalian (julius) tends to be game for anything. A visitor's guide
might be a good idea for an issue of "Ape Chronicles". I'll have to think
about it. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim" <apefan23@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 3:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] ApExpo 2004


> Well, I for one would go to an Ape Expo...."Farscape"ers have
> their own...why not Apesters? I'm sure Linda Harrison would go
> ...she goes to every con!....
>
> I was wanting to know......Jeff (or anyone else)...why not make up
> a "Visitor's Guide to the Planet of the Apes"...and include sites
> and directions to all Apes locations .......Century City, Zuma
> Beach, Fox Ranch, all the Escape locations....where the Caeser
> statue is......Lake Powell, hell...even Jefferson Public School in
> Fort Wayne Indiana! It could have actual movie filming sites as
> well as anything mentioned in the saga...I assume you have
> visited most LA spots...i would like to visit all and take pics of
> locations now comparing them to in the films....
> A friend of mine worked as the Art Director on a TV movie filmed
> here a few years ago and Bill Creber was the designer (I got to
> meet him, got him to reluctantly sign a photo of Ape City....he's
> sorta crusty but he had good stories...he says he's got a few
> models of the buildings as well the spaceship model in a box
> somewhere!) but possibly I could get some specific detailed
> directions to exact spots that were used........
>
> any other ideas?
>
> tim
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 4:02 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] "Lost" and Found (OT)

In a message dated 11/16/02 4:40:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

Sounds like he was a little last to me.  They should have done a show where they got rescued.  Then they would be all old and stuff.  The ravages of time ... then maybe the new show could be a tad more serious and not quite to hokey.  Not that I don't like a bit of cheese, but I think the show sometimes got a bit silly.

I would have liked to have seen an episode of one of the new "Star Trek" shows where they find Dr. Smith and the robot drifting through space in a derelict ship living together like an old gay couple.  They're taken aboard one of the Federation ships and Dr. Smith tries to take it over so he can get back to earth.  Stupid I know, but I just wanted to see the robot again.  Oh well.

-- Rory
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2002 4:11 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] ApExpo 2004

In a message dated 11/16/02 6:30:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, apefan23@... writes:

Well, I for one would go to an Ape Expo...."Farscape"ers have
their own...why not Apesters? I'm sure Linda Harrison would go
...she goes to every con!....

I was wanting to know......Jeff (or anyone else)...why not make up
a "Visitor's Guide to the Planet of the Apes"...and include sites
and directions to all Apes locations .......Century City, Zuma
Beach, Fox Ranch, all the Escape locations....where the Caeser
statue is......Lake Powell, hell...even Jefferson Public School in
Fort Wayne Indiana! It could have actual movie filming sites as
well as anything mentioned in the saga...I assume you have
visited most LA spots...i would like to visit all and take pics of
locations now comparing them to in the films....
A friend of mine worked as the Art Director on a TV movie filmed
here a few years ago and Bill Creber was the designer  (I got to
meet him, got him to reluctantly sign a photo of Ape City....he's
sorta crusty but he had good stories...he says he's got a few
models of the buildings as well the spaceship model in a box
somewhere!)  but possibly I could get some specific detailed
directions to exact spots that were used........

any other ideas?

tim

This sounds like a job for Jeff Krueger, but he probably wouldn't do it.   He's very crusty, especially after a few days of not changing his underwear.  Yeah, Krusty Krueger, that's what they call him.  Boy, I'd sure like to meet Bill Creber, but I'd ask him so many questions he'd probably say mean things to me.  I'd cry and it would taint my affection for APES from that day on.

-- Rory

<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/16/02 9:00:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

  Did you see the "Lost in Space" doc that Kevin "Behind the POTA" Burns did? They recreated the ship and Bill Mumy, Jonathan Harris and the Robot did a scene. I have the DVD which has outtakes from that shoot. By the way, the main character in OLiver Stone's POTA was nicknamed Will Robinson (ha, on topic!) - - - Jeff

Yeah, Joe Russo lent me that DVD.  He doesn't like Kevin Burns too much.

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/16/02 9:07:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

  The first book signing we did for Eric Greene wasn't advertised well and only a few people showed up. Creber, Ron Harper, Booth Colman and the casting director were the guests and we just hung out and talked. I wish I'd had the idea to interview Creber. I really didn't know what to ask him. I had a lobby card of "Beneath" where Taylor is going to detonate the bomb and Creber talked about how they made that set. I also showed him my blueprints from QVC and that was kinda interesting, looking those over with him. - - - Jeff

D'Oh!!!!!    What did the casting director have to say?

-- Rory<.html

.htmlIn a message dated 11/16/02 8:57:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

A visitor's guide might be a good idea for an issue of "Ape Chronicles".

An ISSUE of Ape Chronicles might be nice!<.html

Attachments :

.html

Click here: javascript:%20showupdate(1,2)

http://cgi.aol.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1788676876 <.html

<<<<< I wish
I'd had the idea to interview Creber. I really didn't know what to
ask him.

> > I had a lobby card of "Beneath" where Taylor is going to

detonate the bomb

> > and Creber talked about how they made that set. I also

showed him my

> > blueprints from QVC and that was kinda interesting, looking

those over with

> > him. - - - Jeff

He told me he was weary of signing things because he had
befriended someone a while ago...a friend of his wife's....and
they were pals...so Creber GAVE him some original drawings
and other stuff......then the asshole sold them on ebay!!! REALLY
pissed Creber off...so he's skeptical now...I assured him that he
pic he signed for me was going nowhere!!!!!!!

Tim

.html

From: Haristas@...
Subject:

What's everybody doing this weekend?  I'll be seeing HARRY POTTER today.  Of
course you can all imagine how excited I am about that, but I like going to
the movies and eating popcorn, so that's that.

-- Rory

I've just been to see '28 days later' I don't know if it has been - or even will be - released in the States but keep your eyes peeled for it.

Low budget and shot on digital video, directed by the guy that made 'Train spotting' and written by Alex Garland, it's a kind of mix of Romero's zombie flicks, The Omega man and Day of the Triffids.  Flawed and cliched in places but nonetheless a good attempt at a no-concessions-to-the-kiddies horror movie... Oh, and there's Chimps in it.

Dave

<.html

.html

In a message dated 11/16/02 8:57:04 PM Eastern Standard Time,
 Haristas@... writes:


An ISSUE of Ape Chronicles might be nice!

Yeah... I'm still owed three issues.

Dave

<.html

It wasn't Joe Farrell was it?

Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tim [apefan23@...]
> Sent: Sunday, 17 November 2002 18:31
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] ApExpo 2004
>
>
> <<<<< I wish
> I'd had the idea to interview Creber. I really didn't know what to
> ask him.
> > > I had a lobby card of "Beneath" where Taylor is going to
> detonate the bomb
> > > and Creber talked about how they made that set. I also
> showed him my
> > > blueprints from QVC and that was kinda interesting, looking
> those over with
> > > him. - - - Jeff
>
>
> He told me he was weary of signing things because he had
> befriended someone a while ago...a friend of his wife's....and
> they were pals...so Creber GAVE him some original drawings
> and other stuff......then the asshole sold them on ebay!!! REALLY
> pissed Creber off...so he's skeptical now...I assured him that he
> pic he signed for me was going nowhere!!!!!!!
>
> Tim
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--- In pota@y..., "whitty@c..." <whitty@c...> wrote:

> Well, seeing as you are so frank I'll return the favour.
>
> I have had about 3 serious (identifiable) mental breakdowns, triggered by drug abuse (excessive pot/speed).
>
> When I saw "A Beautiful Mind" recently it struck a chord. You would have to watch the movie to understand.
>
> I seriously wondered if you might have been heading down that path.
>
> I am not being insulting here, just very open.
>
> I am a person who constantly looks for cues that I might be losing sight of reality, and anyone else who has an idea about this topic would understand that sometimes we need people to say "Dude, you're losing it".
>
> The elaborate workings of some of your posts (and scenarios), and the resultant alienation from "mainstream" POTA fans' limits of acceptance, made me wonder if the gap between the sense this makes to you and the lack of sense it makes to others could be a symptom.
>
> I hope this makes it a bit clearer for you.
>
> I also hope you don't take it as an insult, because that is not the
> way this is intended.
>
> Michael

*** No, I don't take it as an insult. Making sense of the POTA saga's
details is a prerequisite (self-imposed) for writing my big-ass novel.
I think it WOULD be insane of me to expect or demand that others
readjust their thinking of POTA and adopt my scenario--and, as I've
said "oh, time without number", I don't expect/demand that ANYBODY
accept my "take" on POTA. It works for ME; if there are others out
there who dig it, then that's great... but just as Frank Zappa wrote
his music to suit his own aesthetic, not caring if others liked it
(though being glad if that was the case), so too am I doing my thing
with the POTA saga to suit myself.

In regards to your prior drug abuse (and its effects), I hope it's no
longer the problem it once was. I mentioned that I don't drink/smoke/
do drugs, but I know a number of guys who DO, and they're friends of
mine; I could have ended up with their substance abuse problems
easily. I guess I was "fortunate" enough to see the horrid effects of
long-term smoking & drinking on my parents (their drugs were perfectly
legal, and much more damaging to them than the illegal drugs out
there, in my opinion), so that I NEVER wanted to have to deal with the
same sorts of problems my folks had. My brother and I once tallied up
the amount of money our parents spent per annum on cigs and booze, and
conservatively figured that the money wasted on that garbage would
have afforded our family a Lake cabin, a 2-week family vacation, a
nicer car, etc. All the stuff our friends seemed to get to enjoy, we
had to envy them... all because of those goddamned addictive legal
drugs! I'm just lucky that I didn't adopt the same "vices" that my
parents had; they both died at the age of 63--with any luck I'll
outlive that age by at least a decade or two.

BTW, if you should ever wonder if you're "losing sight of reality",
first ask yourself if that Huge Wall of Fire you think you're seeing
(or that Strange Violent Earthquake) is a drug-induced flashback...
or, instead, a Visual/Sonic Deterrent illusion forced into your head
by some ill-tempered fleshy-headed mutants.

Patrick

P.S. I haven't seen "A Beautiful Mind" yet, though I heard it was
good. I just went to the new "Harry Potter" movie, which I liked
better than the first one (which was okay, if not fantabulous). I just
saw the most recent episode of "South Park", where the kids are hyped
about the "Lord of the Rings" movie they just saw on video... If you
haven't seen it yet, it's one of the top 10 funniest SP episodes ever.
Butters as a Gollum-like addict for his "precious"... heh heh heh! A
laff-riot.