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> Fred

> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "libraryape <toosexy4u54@h...>"
> <toosexy4u54@h...> wrote:
> > I am rather a physics buff, for a hobby of course. What I want to
> verify is what is missing the 'Artist picture' Hasslein uses to
> explain time travel to the news media, and is it a black hole. I
> believe the first thing that is missing in the second regression is
> the landscape. Most might disagree with me, as would Hasslein that

> the thrid regression the orginal artist painting a picture of

> is absent. As Hasslein explains it, it is the observer observing

> observed or the time traveler and the landscape. But how can that

> since both original objects are missing? Such explanation indicates
> that traveling in time, especially backwards is indeed a paradox

> what IS will never be since both the landscape and artist and even
> time is no more. I think this is rather interestng because back

> most writers then if not scientist believe traveling back in time

> possible. These days we know better. Of course the writers in this
> instance has made it so to create ape lore, creating the casualty
> paradox - Zira and Cornelius going into the past to create

> thus making the paradox quite real if not relevant. It is indeed

> boggling to the point that in thinking on the level of paradox,

> contradictions burns up a lot of brain cells when mulling of these
> possibilties. Yet the picture being example to such contradictions
> and regression is proof that such possibilites can occure beyond

> partical level,(Particals are the only thing capable of traveling
> travel back in time or black holes). Interestingly enough the
> picture, the very exsistance of it is much like a model of

> I hope I haven't confussed anyone. I am terrible in writing and
> explainig the details of my theories.
>
> *** I get the impression that English is a second language for

> am I right? Well, what you're saying IS a little bit confusing, but

> think I know what you're referring to in regards to Black Holes and
> what Hasslein was talking about (in ESCAPE) to Bill Bonds, about

> painting of the artist painting a landscape and "infinite
> regression".
>
> In regards to Black Holes, if an observer (say, in a spaceship)

> parked in a circular orbit around a Black Hole (outside the Event
> Horizon, of course), perhaps in one of the two stable Lagrangian
> libration points of a "two-body" system (that is, the Black Hole

> an orbiting star), then that Observer might see the occasional
> meteorite fall towards the center-of-mass of the Black Hole. As

> meteorite falls down that gravity well, it accelerates faster and
> faster until--when it hits the Event Horizon--it has "disappeared"
> from the observable universe (since not even Light itself can

> the gravitational clutch of the warped spacetime of a Singularity).
> HOWEVER... the IMAGE of that meteorite will have become "frozen" at
> the Event Horizon, even though the actual meteorite had continued

> down the "trough" towards the Singularity. The "image" of the
> meteorite at the moment it hit the Event Horizon is, itself,
> comprised of Light--so, at that border where the escape velocity IS
> that of Light, that Image would be stuck there, like an insect
> trapped in amber. And, in the moments just prior to the object's
> falling through that Event Horizon, the images of the object
> would "pile up" along the red-shifted line-of-sight (the "red-

> being caused by the intense gravitation, bending Light towards the
> Singularity). This is what Hasslein's "infinite regression" seems

> be discussing: what an Observer outside a Black Hole would see of

> object which has fallen inside a Black Hole's Event Horizon. It

> actually be a "blur" of successive images (rather than the series
> of "quantum" images suggested by Hasslein--the "paintings-within-
> paintings" portrayal), but that's harder to picture than the visual
> representation Hasslein had brought to Bill Bonds' TV station in
> order to explain Infinite Regression, and an Observer's observation
> of Time.
>
> Patrick
>
> P.S. I hope this maybe helped you understand some of this

> confusing stuff, T. It's hard enough to comprehend when someone
> fluent in English tries explaining it!

> > > 1972, perhaps Otto Hasslein was just one of many top-notch
> > > professional scientists involved in the ANSA missions. It was
> >
> > Probably not. Most people at ANSA either didn't believe in
> Hasslein's theory (like Landon), never heard of Hasslein's theory
> (like Brent), were unsure of Hasslein's theory (like Taylor) or

> didn't expect the Icarus to enter a Hasslein curve. In BENEATH

> sent a rescue mission after the Icarus and in ESCAPE *nobody*

> surprised when the Icarus returned. Even after Zira connected the
> dots for everyone in ESCAPE by saying they were from the future
> nobody except Hasslein's himself seemed to believe her. But

> at ANSA must have recognized the possibility enough to add the

> Time clock.
>
> *** Why do you say that Brent "never heard of Hasslein's theory"?
> It's Brent who tells his "Skipper" that "we must have passed

> a Hasslein Curve... a bend in Time..."
> Earlier (in PLANET), Taylor mentions how "Time bends... Space is
> boundless." Just after he had mentioned "Doctor Hasslein's theory

> Time in a vehicle travelling nearly the speed of light". Time
> bends... a Bend in Time... it's the same thing: the dilation of

> Time in an accelerating vehicle relative to the initial Ship-Time
> prior to the acceleration. Hasslein Curvature is nothing more than
> the Dilation of Time experienced by a spaceship which has undergone
> acceleration to near-light velocities. Unlike Antelle's ship
> (according to EINSTEIN's theory), which had to accelerate THROUGH
> space for about a year prior to the Time Dilation effect to kick

> Taylor's ship undergoes INSTANTANEOUS Time Dilation effects (see
> below).
>
> As to whether or not anybody "seemed surprised" that this ANSA ship
> had returned, I'd have to disagree. Taylor's mission was intended

> be to a different solar system 320 lightyears away (which Taylor

> they wouldn't reach until 18 months of Ship-Time later...
> corresponding to about 2000 years of Earth-Time). Six months into
> their trip they've already gone a third of the way there (the
> screenplay has it that they've gone "a mere hundred and five
> lightyears from our base" during the opening scene). They're less
> than an hour away from completing their "sixth month" since lift-

> from Cape Kennedy, and 105 lightyears into their trip. They're gone
> (as Landon mentions) a total of 18 months of Ship-Time, and Taylor
> thinks that they've gone the total 320 lightyears their mission was
> planned to do.
> Taylor, during his "final report" seems to think that Hasslein's
> Theory MAY be true ("... maybe so..." he says). "This much is
> PROBABLY true: the men who sent us on this journey are long since
> dead and forgotten..."
> However, by the time he and Landon start arguing, on the beach of
> Dead Lake, Taylor says the theory is "a FACT, Landon... buy it:
> you'll sleep better."
>
> >
> > > Hasslein may or may not have been in charge of ANSA, but he did
> contribute to the design of the near-light "hyperdrive"--or at

> to the theoretical workings of such a design. Perhaps, after the
> >
> > Evidence? What hyperdrive? Hasslein probably never worked at
> NASA/ANSA, and surely wasn't in charge of it. None of the

> (Brent, Skipper, Taylor, Landon) seemed to expect they were going

> the future, and only Taylor seemed to realize the possibility
> beforehand.
>
> *** "What hyperdrive?" you ask? Taylor refers to "the men who sent

> on this journey" as "Man, that marvel of the universe... that
> glorious paradox WHO SENT ME TO THE STARS..." The ONLY way that
> Taylor could have been sent TO THE STARS is if his ship had a
> propulsion system capable of accelerating to a velocity fast enough
> to traverse at the very least the 4.34 lightyears it would take to
> get to the NEAREST star system (the trinary Alpha Centauri). Taylor
> says the trip is to a location 320 lightyears away, in Orion.

> Antelle's "Einsteinian" Relativity-utilizing propulsion system

> Boulle never explicitly describes, except for the Time Dilation
> effects at top velocity), Taylor's ship leaves Cape Kennedy and in
> less than 6 months is already at its top velocity, and Time has

> dilating for "nearly 700 years" of Earth-Time.
> Just by analyzing the details as given in the opening scene of
> PLANET, one can deduce that some sort of spacetime-warping

> system is at work. The ship passes through interstellar nebulae,

> a car driver going through a fog bank, or a jet pilot passing

> a cloud. Stars go flying by, past the field-of-vision through the
> front windows of the ship, like a car passing by mile-markers along

> highway. This effect--seen from the cockpit--can ONLY be happening

> the ship is going at such a velocity that, relative to the Ship-

> clock's ticking (as experienced by the astronauts), they are
> travelling faster than light. They aren't actually travelling

> than light, due to the Time Dilation factor (the divergence of

> accelerated Ship's Time with the original frame-of-reference Earth
> Time). But, since Ship-Time is slowed down (compared with Earth-

> which is why the Earth-Time chronometer clicks through several days
> during only a few minutes as Taylor makes his Final Report), those
> lightyears of distance their ship is eating up are being traversed
> over the course of many actual "Earth-Time" years.
>
> Patrick

> Patrick. (I spelled your name right) In the opening scene didn't
> Taylor say 650 years have ellasped on earth? Also I wanted to ask
> what ANSA represents. I know SA is Space Association. Right??? ---

> Thanks Patrick. You do far better than I ever will be in explaining

> <patrickmichaeltilton@y...>" <patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:
> > --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "libraryape <toosexy4u54@h...>"
> > <toosexy4u54@h...> wrote:
> > > I am rather a physics buff, for a hobby of course. What I want

> >
> > *** I get the impression that English is a second language for

> >
> > In regards to Black Holes, if an observer (say, in a spaceship)

> >
> > Patrick
> >
> > P.S. I hope this maybe helped you understand some of this
> admittedly confusing stuff, T. It's hard enough to comprehend when

> Patrick. (I spelled your name right) In the opening scene didn't
> Taylor say 650 years have elapsed on earth? Also I wanted to ask
> what ANSA represents. I know SA is Space Association. Right??? ---

> So, Taylor says that "nearly 700 years" of Earth-Time have passed

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 5:40 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Hasslein's position

In a message dated 12/20/02 8:03:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, toosexy4u54@... writes:

Patrick. (I spelled your name right) In the opening scene didn't
Taylor say 650 years have ellasped on earth? Also I wanted to ask
what ANSA represents. I know SA is Space Association. Right???  ---

I've always thought that perhaps ANSA stood for American National Space Administration.

-- Rory
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, <veetus@e...> wrote:
> My local Tower has a new batch of POTA Medicoms. Along with
repeats of previous characters (Zira, Cornelius, Zauis, Lucius,
Ursus, Urko and Soldier Apes) they got in the Lawgiver
statue, "Battle" Caesar and...the "rare" "Conquest" chimp. Not to be
confused with "Conquest" Caesar (with the chain around his neck),
this chimp was dubbed rare/hard to find during the import days. Now
it's $12.95. I haven't heard anyone else report seeing these in a
domestic batch, so I thought I'd mention it. - - - Jeff
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Haristas@a...
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 5:40 AM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Hasslein's position
>
>
> In a message dated 12/20/02 8:03:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,
toosexy4u54@h... writes:
>
>
>
> Patrick. (I spelled your name right) In the opening scene
didn't
> Taylor say 650 years have ellasped on earth? Also I wanted to
ask
> what ANSA represents. I know SA is Space Association.
Right??? ---
>
>
>
> I've always thought that perhaps ANSA stood for American National
Space Administration.
>
> -- Rory
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:

<<<Only gorillas living in captivity eat meat.>>>

This I did not know about gorillas in captivity. I'm glad you posted
this

*** Yeah, I was surprised to see it too. I thought it was an
interesting bit of trivia, so I thought I'd throw it to the group.***

> If I understand you right, your basic question is: "What is missing
> in the picture?" The picture, that is, which Hasslein shows to Bill
> Bonds during that TV telecast where he explains to the viewing
> audience (and us) how it is that the Ape-onauts could have come to
> them in 1973 from the Future... or, to be more specific, from ONE

> MANY POSSIBLE FUTURES.
>
> After Hasslein first presents "a picture of a landscape", he then
> REGRESSES one step backward, drawing the image back so that we see
> that landscape picture being painted by the Artist (who was a part

> the landscape he painted). He then keeps regressing back further

> picture of the artist painting a picture of the artist painting a
> picture of the artist painting a picture of the artist painting a
> landscape"), showing that this REGRESSION can never be complete,
> hence his term "infinite regression".
>
> In chapter Nine of Jerry Pournelle's novelization of ESCAPE, he has
> Hasslein say:
>
> ----------from ESCAPE novelization-------------
>
> "... now, in order for it to be realistic, the painting within

> painting would itself have to contain a picture of the artist
> painting a picture of the artist painting a picture of the

> And, in fact, that is not quite realistic either, is it? One would
> have to regress again. And again, and again--"
> "It would never be accurate," the interviewer exclaimed.
> "Perhaps not," Hasslein said. "But in order to understand time,
> you would have to be like the artist who had done an infinite

> of such paintings until he had actually succeeded in portraying the
> scene realistically."
> "That's enough to drive you mad," the interviewer said.
> Hasslein shrugged. "Perhaps. But let us imagine, then, that we
> have this capability. That we have made the, ah, infinite

> and we are both the observers and the observed. And now let us look
> at time."
> "What would we see?" Walter asked. [NOTE: in the Novelization,

> interviewer's name is "Walter", though in the actual movie, it
> is "Bill Bonds"]
> "We might well see it as an infinity of parallel events, but not
> always parallel. Science fiction writers once called this, ah, 'fan-
> shaped' time; from 'now' there stretches forward a large number of
> alternative pathways. Some come back to the same path. Others lead
> very far away indeed. And thus, the choices made here determine
> different futures. In one of these futures, you will leave this
> building at eight-fifteen, precisely in time to be killed by an
> automobile which left the parking garage at eight-twelve... but in
> another, you may leave here at eight-sixteen, and be perfectly

> Hasslein said. "Or the automobile does not leave the parking garage
> until eight-twenty because the driver received a telephone call.

> and this is the important point, each of those futures may be as

> as any other."
> "But we wouldn't experience more than one of those futures,

> we, Dr. Hasslein?" the interviewer asked. He was now thoroughly
> confused.
> "Certainly not," Hasslein said. "Yet, each one would be real to
> the mythical observer who has achieved infinite regression. Now, I

> not find it at all hard to believe that these apes have arrived

> from one of the possible futures of this planet. To them, that

> was very real. But, and I want to stress this, it need not be real

> US. We can, perhaps, change that future. And indeed, I think it
> important that we do."
> --------------------------------------
>
> Thus, the painting WOULD NEVER BE ACCURATE, unless one could

> (perhaps IMPOSSIBLY) achieve "infinite regression".
>
> Think of it this way, mathematically: take the numbers Zero and One
> and add them together... 0 + 1 = 1. Then add the last two numbers

> + 1 = 2). Then add those last two numbers (1 + 2 = 3). Do so again
> (i.e. "re-iterate"), so that 2 + 3 = 5; 3 + 5 = 8; 5 + 8 = 13; etc.
> Each "iteration" of this series is like the "regression" taken by

> Artist painting the landscape. The numbers to the right of the =

> are the famous "Fibonacci sequence" of numbers: 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13,
> 21, 34, 55, 89, 144, etc. Now, divide any number (except the 1st

> by the previous number of the sequence: 2/1 = 2; 3/2 = 1.5; 5/3 =
> 1.666...; 8/5 = 1.6; 13/8 = 1.625; 21/13 = 1.6153846...; 34/21 =
> 1.6190476...; 55/34 = 1.6176471...; 89/55 = 1.6181818...; 144/89 =
> 1.6179775...; etc. You'll find that THIS series of numbers, when it
> has undergone an "infinite" series of iterations, converges on one
> number: 1.618033989..., the famous "Golden Number". The first
> iterations of this series are the furthest away from "nearing" the
> final "limit" of 1.618033989...; it goes from 2 to 1.5 to 1.666...

> 1.6 to 1.625 to 1.6153846... to 1.6190476... to 1.6176471... to
> 1.6181818... to 1.6179775... in other words, each iteration bounces
> back and forth from just a hair too MUCH to just a hair too LITTLE,
> each successive iteration getting nearer-and-nearer to the Golden
> Number... and only when an INFINITE number of iterations occur does
> the value EQUAL the true Golden Number.
>
> Similarly, one could view the Future as Hasslein does via a

> different mathematical formula, where an Infinity of alternative
> Futures (of Alternative Universes) sprout up an Infinite number of
> times as each moment passes. Yet multiplying by Infinity soon gets
> you into all sorts of problems, from a mathematical standpoint. If,
> say, "3 times Infinity" is compared to "4 times Infinity", is the
> latter "more" than the former? After all, 4 is more than 3, and
> you're taking each of these ordinary numbers and MULTIPLYING
> another "number" (Infinity). Yet multiplying by Infinity should

> an answer which more or less IS Infinity. Just as multiplying by

> always yields Zero, no matter how high the number multiplied so

> 3 x 0 = 0, and 4 x 0 = 0, and 4,847,529,325 x 0 = 0, etc.), so too
> should multiplying ANY number by Infinity yield Infinity.
>
> If, as Hasslein wants to believe, there ARE an infinite number of
> parallel universes of which THIS universe is one (with, hopefully,

> nicer future for Mankind), and the "ape-ruled" universe is another
> (from which the Ape-onauts came), then shouldn't each of these
> Universes impinge on each other in some way? Shouldn't the combined
> Masses of the various parallel universes somehow exert their
> gravitational effects on "neighbouring" universes in
> this "Multiverse"? Perhaps the absence of any "cross-universe"
> effects of the sort are evidence that there really is only One
> future, and that NO effort can prevent it.
>
> As Hasslein says, later on in Pournelle's novelization (chapter
> 17): "I haven't time to explain my notion of the meaning of time
> itself--no joke intended. But I can say this: the future is not
> unalterable, but the very fact that, to these apes, that bleak and
> horrifying world in which our descendants live as dumb brutes HAS
> happened makes it very likely that it WILL happen. So long as those
> apes are alive, their genes may, somehow, enter the breeding pool

> all apes. So long as they are alive, they are a danger to every man
> who will ever live! To the descendants of every one of us."
>
> Later, in chapter 18, Hasslein tells Dixon: "We are attempting to
> change the future, and although I believe in theory we can do that,

> confess some doubts."
>
> This whole question of whether or not the Future (provided it is
> known in advance) can be changed by Present day action is like a
> mathematical conundrum. Is it possible? Impossible? It is said that
> there can never be any Square Root of a Negative number... yet
> the "number" [i] was conjured up to represent the Square Root of
> Negative One. Such numbers are considered "imaginary"... although

> real universe (according to Quantum Physics) actually somehow
> incorporates such "imaginary" numbers in its fabric! That is just

> improbable as the so-called "paradox" of the Ape-onauts travelling
> Backwards through Time to their Past (our Present) and begetting &
> bearing their own ancestors. If Time is like "the old motorways"

> Virgil, echoing Hasslein, says), then such a Time Paradox is like

> of those "roundabouts" over in England, where you're on one road,

> you want to get over to another road, and the "intersection" is a
> circular bit of road... so you drive onto that Roundabout and go
> around... and around... and around... and around... and around...
> because somehow all the other roads are no longer accessible--yet

> Road still exists: it just goes around... and around... and

> and around...
> It's enough to drive you mad, as the TV announcer says (in the
> novelization).
> Is Time "destined" to go on to only ONE future? Is the POTA future,
> as Armando calls it, "the unalterable will of God"? Is it "ungodly"
> for Hasslein--or Caesar--to attempt to alter that "destiny"? Or,
> perhaps, is it up to Man to act in his own interests, EVEN IF IT

> AGAINST THE "WILL" OF GOD? If "destiny" is destined to result in

> total annihilation of all Earth life in 3955, then isn't it RIGHT

> Man (or Ape) to make the attempt to alter it--to go against
> the "will" of God--for the sake of preserving Life?
>
> Patrick
>
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "libraryape <toosexy4u54@h...>"
> <toosexy4u54@h...> wrote:
> > Thanks Patrick. You do far better than I ever will be in

> the mechanics of black holes in relation to Hasslein's

> Although I am fascinated with the time warps or black holes, I

> don't understand them completely other than the time line in which
> they create. I think my asking about black holes and "what is
> missing in the picture" held a sense of ambiguity. Sorry. I guess I
> should have focused mainly on the physical aspect of the TIME LINE

> the Zira and Cornelius parodox instead making it applicable to
> congruency to Hasslein's so called quantum example of moving

> time. I just don't have the skill or the education explain the
> details of something that is so abstract in nature. So in the name

> determination and as pota fan I, unlike myself, will leave that
> approach and keep the question very simple and clear. What is

> in picture? Is it the landscape that represents the future? If so,
> then why does the observer having come from the future still exist

> the picture? I ask this because when Hasslein talks about the
> observer observing the observed I see a metaphore (which I thought

> be representation of a black hole in reference to the Event horizon
> capturing the traveler's image - mirror image) as well as an clear
> answer as(Taylor puts it) to why the world is upside down or how

> apes came to rule the planet.(I'm not refering to Caesar or the
> events in turn) I know I am trying to say something in which Spock
> said in THE JOURNEY HOME. "How can one answer when one doesn't know
> the question?" Hopefully in using the word Metaphor I am able to

> the question across. As far as English being my a second
> language . . .? No. I am just product of Albuquerque Public

> of thirty years ago when no one understood or cared to hear about
> learning disorders. I have been working diligently on improving my
> grammar throughout the years. (When composing this letter, it has
> taken me over three hours to even make it partially comprehensable)
> Although the grammar isn't exactly correct in this letter, I have
> come very far. My daughter from Vietnam has only been in this
> country for over five years and she speaks and writes English

> than me. She also knows how to speak French. Oh well, some have a
> gift to communicate correctly while some don't. I, like most

> have other gifts which are on the same level of importance.

> thanks. Hear from you soon.
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "patrickmichaeltilton
> > <patrickmichaeltilton@y...>" <patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:
> > > --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "libraryape <toosexy4u54@h...>"
> > > <toosexy4u54@h...> wrote:
> > > > I am rather a physics buff, for a hobby of course. What I

> to verify is what is missing the 'Artist picture' Hasslein uses to
> explain time travel to the news media, and is it a black hole. I
> believe the first thing that is missing in the second regression is
> the landscape. Most might disagree with me, as would Hasslein that

> the thrid regression the orginal artist painting a picture of

> is absent. As Hasslein explains it, it is the observer observing

> observed or the time traveler and the landscape. But how can that

> since both original objects are missing? Such explanation indicates
> that traveling in time, especially backwards is indeed a paradox

> what IS will never be since both the landscape and artist and even
> time is no more. I think this is rather interestng because back

> most writers then if not scientist believe traveling back in time

> possible. These days we know better. Of course the writers in this
> instance has made it so to create ape lore, creating the casualty
> paradox - Zira and Cornelius going into the past to create

> thus making the paradox quite real if not relevant. It is indeed

> boggling to the point that in thinking on the level of paradox,

> contradictions burns up a lot of brain cells when mulling of these
> possibilties. Yet the picture being example to such contradictions
> and regression is proof that such possibilites can occure beyond

> partical level,(Particals are the only thing capable of traveling
> travel back in time or black holes). Interestingly enough the
> picture, the very exsistance of it is much like a model of

> I hope I haven't confussed anyone. I am terrible in writing and
> explainig the details of my theories.
> > >
> > > *** I get the impression that English is a second language for
> you... am I right? Well, what you're saying IS a little bit
> confusing, but I think I know what you're referring to in regards

> Black Holes and what Hasslein was talking about (in ESCAPE) to Bill
> Bonds, about that painting of the artist painting a landscape
> and "infinite regression".
> > >
> > > In regards to Black Holes, if an observer (say, in a spaceship)
> were parked in a circular orbit around a Black Hole (outside the
> Event Horizon, of course), perhaps in one of the two stable
> Lagrangian libration points of a "two-body" system (that is, the
> Black Hole and an orbiting star), then that Observer might see the
> occasional meteorite fall towards the center-of-mass of the Black
> Hole. As each meteorite falls down that gravity well, it

> faster and faster until--when it hits the Event Horizon--it
> has "disappeared" from the observable universe (since not even

> itself can escape the gravitational clutch of the warped spacetime

> a Singularity). HOWEVER... the IMAGE of that meteorite will have
> become "frozen" at the Event Horizon, even though the actual
> meteorite had continued on down the "trough" towards the

> The "image" of the meteorite at the moment it hit the Event Horizon
> is, itself, comprised of Light--so, at that border where the escape
> velocity IS that of Light, that Image would be stuck there, like an
> insect trapped in amber. And, in the moments just prior to the
> object's falling through that Event Horizon, the images of the

> would "pile up" along the red-shifted line-of-sight (the "red-

> being caused by the intense gravitation, bending Light towards the
> Singularity). This is what Hasslein's "infinite regression" seems

> be discussing: what an Observer outside a Black Hole would see of

> object which has fallen inside a Black Hole's Event Horizon. It

> actually be a "blur" of successive images (rather than the series
> of "quantum" images suggested by Hasslein--the "paintings-within-
> paintings" portrayal), but that's harder to picture than the visual
> representation Hasslein had brought to Bill Bonds' TV station in
> order to explain Infinite Regression, and an Observer's observation
> of Time.
> > >
> > > Patrick
> > >
> > > P.S. I hope this maybe helped you understand some of this
> > admittedly confusing stuff, T. It's hard enough to comprehend

> someone fluent in English tries explaining it!

----- Original Message -----

From: Michael Whitty <whitty@...>

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2002 5:34 AM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Rare Medicom no more

Jeff

Is this a new Medicom or a remnant of the originals?

Michael


--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, <veetus@e...> wrote:
>   My local Tower has a new batch of POTA Medicoms. Along with
repeats of previous characters (Zira, Cornelius, Zauis, Lucius,
Ursus, Urko and Soldier Apes) they got in the Lawgiver
statue, "Battle" Caesar and...the "rare" "Conquest" chimp. Not to be
confused with "Conquest" Caesar (with the chain around his neck),
this chimp was dubbed rare/hard to find during the import days. Now
it's $12.95. I haven't heard anyone else report seeing these in a
domestic batch, so I thought I'd mention it. - - - Jeff
>
>
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Haristas@a...
>   To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 5:40 AM
>   Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Hasslein's position
>
>
>   In a message dated 12/20/02 8:03:00 PM Eastern Standard Time,
toosexy4u54@h... writes:
>
>
>
>     Patrick. (I spelled your name right) In the opening scene
didn't
>     Taylor say 650 years have ellasped on earth? Also I wanted to
ask
>     what ANSA represents. I know SA is Space Association.
Right???  ---
>
>
>
>   I've always thought that perhaps ANSA stood for American National
Space Administration.
>
>   -- Rory
>   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

----- Original Message -----

From: mlccougar <mlccougar@...>

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2002 7:42 AM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Another "survey"

A short time back, Krueger took a survey in here to see how many
people would reply to his question of "What is your favorite APES
film" (to which he received disappointingly low turn-out...)

The question I am asking then is not nearly as diffucult to answer,
because there are no choices to be made, it's just a simple yes or no
question: DID YOU WRITE TO FOX YET AND REQUEST THEY DO THE APES
MOVIES AS A SPECIAL EDITION BOX SET? (Optional addition: What did you
ask of them or request from them?)

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, <veetus@e...> wrote:

Yeah, I'll announce the "Ape" favorites on Christmas Day, as well as
the final installment of "Starcon '98". Been busy. Maybe get caught
up on "Today in Group History". Haven't written Fox. That's on my
list, too. But with all the cool Medicom action I can't be too upset
with them, the darlings. - - - Jeff

***Lemme say this: I wish I had the luck you seem to be having with
those Medicoms... I checked out the local comics store and there
wasn't an Ape in sight (and if there woulda been, it woulda been
EXPENSIVE. I mean that guy was charging like $17 bucks for the model
re-issues when Toys 'R Us still had them at there regular price of $8
bucks...)We don't have a TOWER store here, and last time I went to
Media Play, they too were not carrying them! Yeah, there's still eBay
I suppose, but then ya get jacked with the shipping, so you end up
paying $17 bucks for a $10-$12 figure...

And as to your comment that you: "Haven't written Fox. That's on my
list, too. But with all the cool Medicom action I can't be too upset
with them, the darlings." Well, I AM GLAD to know that at least
you're going to make an attempt to let your voice be heard... (Now if
we can only get the rest of 'em to do it...) And as far as the other
part in that comment,I think ya do gotta be upset with them, cuz even
though they may have licensed the Apes to Medicom, they're just
setting back collecting a licensing fee from them, they're not doing
a thing to promote them (or APES in general) themselves... They
coulda had great ties ins with each other cross promoting each other,
but they chose not to. It coulda been "Buy the box set and get a free
Medicom figure" or there coulda been promotion on the Medicoms
packaging to promote the 35th Anniversary of POTA... But they missed
out, "the darlings"...

(And yeah, I do know that in reality you were just being sarcastic
with the Fox issue, at least I hope you were...)

----- Original Message -----

From: mlccougar <mlccougar@...>

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2002 3:04 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] A "challenge"

You know, the lack of any response to the write in question I posed
earlier in the day (and that both Rory and myself have posted on in
the last few weeks, plus several other times in that past)is
sickening, but not surprising... Other then the two of us, I have not
heard of anyone writing a simple letter to ask Fox for this stuff.

It's five to ten minutes outta your day to just quickly write a small
hand written note saying "Could you please release the POTA film
series as a Special Edition box set? Thank you. Sincerely... " Is
that short amount of time going to make or break your day? I doubt it.
Those few minutes could potentially HELP CONVINCE THOSE PEOPLE AT FOX
that there IS A MARKET FOR CLASSIC APES, and that it is still a
HIGHLY DESIRED PROPERTY (when done "right" as the Classic series was!)
How are they ever going to know that more than two people in the
world want this stuff released if only two are doing anything to help
the cause?! Those few minutes it'd take you to write in could
potentially give you hours of viewing, yet it appears no one is doing
anything to get that point across to Fox. Why that's so difficult to
understand, I don't know...

There is always so much "talk" about how people want the "Long"
version of BATTLE, and the original "Director's Cut" of CONQUEST,
plus "Special Editions" of PLANET, BENEATH, and ESCAPE (with the
inclusion of unused footage, etc.)yet no one is letting this fact be
known!!! No wonder they're talking about putting APES on the far back
burner again!!! I mean think about it, if you were an exec. looking
for products to make money for your comapny, would you want to
release something that will only be bought buy two people? Of course
you wouldn't! You'd be looking at properties that are "hot" and
others that are always in demand, (constantly being asked for, etc.)
You gotta realize that Fox is out to make money, and they're not
about to put money into restoring films and putting them out there if
there's not gonna be a market for them.

I have often heard people talk about SW, and ST. Those are two titles
that consistantly have new product, be it something as simple as a
new novel or something as major as a new film (or in ST's case, films
and tv series!)APES SHOULD HAVE THE SAME TREATMENT. APES SHOULD BE
THE ONE LEADING THE WAY, but of course, it isn't... One of the
reasons those two franchises have all this going for them is simple:
Their audience(s)let it be known they exist. APES fans need to do the
same.

I'm throwing this out then: If you "really" want this stuff as much
as you claim you do here in the postings, tell it to FOX, not the
various egroups, cuz the egroups don't hold the rights to this stuff,
FOX does. You can set in here and say "Why don't they put out a
version with this footage included?" or "I'd really like to see
ESCAPE with the footage of the Ape-o-nauts seeing the Earth
destroyed." or "When is the cartoon series ever gonna get released on
DVD?" All that lamenting in here isn't gonna do any good. Sure you
may (or may not) get a few others in here to say they agree with you,
but then what?! No one in here is gonna be able to pull the original
cut of CONQUEST outta the vaults. No one in here can put out BATTLE
with the bomb footage (plus other lost scenes). No one in here can
put the animated series out on DVD with nice clean prints, and good
sound... The ones you should be telling this stuff to are at FOX, not
in the Yahoo! egroups.

Next time you want to post to the group about "this title or that
title not being available on DVD" do everyone a favor and write it in
a letter to FOX, not in here. We can't do a thing about it, the
owners of it can. Take that time you woulda spent posting on it in
here, and instead tell it to:

Peter Staddon
20th Century Fox Home Entertainment Inc.
2121 Avenue of the Stars
Los Angeles, California       90067-5010

Michael Dunn, Exec. VP. Mktg. & Sales
20th Century Fox Home Entertainment Inc.
2121 Avenue of the Stars, 25th Floor
Los Angeles, California       90067-5010


People have discussed the crying statue of CAESAR, and whether or not
those are tears of knowing the two species will co-exist peacefully,
or knowing the hatred between them is inevitable. It's neither one of
them... They're tears of sadness alright, but tears from knowing that
APES "fans" won't do anything but set back and hope everyone else
does it for them. He's shedding that tear because he knows APES is
doomed to be treated as FOX's "red headed stepchild" because people'd
rather set and let it die on the vine rather than take 5 minutes of
their time to let it be known that something (they "say") gave them
so much enjoyment isn't worth requesting now.


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

----- Original Message -----

From: mlccougar <mlccougar@...>

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2002 8:07 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Another "survey"

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, <veetus@e...> wrote:

Yeah, I'll announce the "Ape" favorites on Christmas Day, as well as
the final installment of "Starcon '98". Been busy. Maybe get caught
up on "Today in Group History". Haven't written Fox. That's on my
list, too. But with all the cool Medicom action I can't be too upset
with them, the darlings. - - - Jeff

***Lemme say this: I wish I had the luck you seem to be having with
those Medicoms... I checked out the local comics store and there
wasn't an Ape in sight (and if there woulda been, it woulda been
EXPENSIVE. I mean that guy was charging like $17 bucks for the model
re-issues when Toys 'R Us still had them at there regular price of $8
bucks...)We don't have a TOWER store here, and last time I went to
Media Play, they too were not carrying them! Yeah, there's still eBay
I suppose, but then ya get jacked with the shipping, so you end up
paying $17 bucks for a $10-$12 figure...

And as to your comment that you: "Haven't written Fox. That's on my
list, too. But with all the cool Medicom action I can't be too upset
with them, the darlings." Well, I AM GLAD to know that at least
you're going to make an attempt to let your voice be heard... (Now if
we can only get the rest of 'em to do it...) And as far as the other
part in that comment,I think ya do gotta be upset with them, cuz even
though they may have licensed the Apes to Medicom, they're just
setting back collecting a licensing fee from them, they're not doing
a thing to promote them (or APES in general) themselves... They
coulda had great ties ins with each other cross promoting each other,
but they chose not to. It coulda been "Buy the box set and get a free
Medicom figure" or there coulda been promotion on the Medicoms
packaging to promote the 35th Anniversary of POTA... But they missed
out, "the darlings"...

(And yeah, I do know that in reality you were just being sarcastic
with the Fox issue, at least I hope you were...)

----- Original Message -----

From: mlccougar <mlccougar@...>

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2002 3:50 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Carnivorous Gorillas

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:

<<<Only gorillas living in captivity eat meat.>>>

This I did not know about gorillas in captivity.  I'm glad you posted
this

*** Yeah, I was surprised to see it too. I thought it was an
interesting bit of trivia, so I thought I'd throw it to the group.***


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, <veetus@e...> wrote:

Don't hold your breathe for the cartoons. No one has put out
the "Star Trek" or "Star Wars" cartoons on DVD either. They put out
the newer cartoons like "Batman" because they have better quality
animation. But I will ask for the cartoons, too. There's been a lot
of POTA activity recently and we don't want to appear ungrateful. The
big thing for Fox in '03 is "Alien", which had it's big DVD push,
when, in the late '90's? These things go in cycles and I think the
deciding factor will be how well the new "Alien" DVDs sell. It's sci-
fi, it too had a recent non-anamorphic box set. If people in
sufficient numbers buy them again they'll say, "OK, "Apes" next". If
not they'll hold off and give a little distance from the last set.
But an anamorphic "Apes" is inevitable. - - - Jeff

*** As far as the TREK cartoons, I swear I seen them at the store...
Perhaps they were on laser disc then, but I "know" I seen them, so
they were released... As far as SW cartoons: What cartoons? You mean
those Ewok things and DROIDS? My guess is that those won't see the
light of DVD because Lucas is probably as embarrassed by them as he
(and the cast) are of that SW X-mas Special.

My other question to you then is this: What recent APES activity? As
Rory and I pointed out, FOX has NOTHING TO DO with the Medicoms,
(other than setting back and collecting the licensing fee, there by
profitting without any actual involvement.)That POTA 2001 thing,
that's already a distant (if not forgotten) memory to them, and
they're probably not going to do a thing with it (or sequelizing it)
anyhow, so that's lying dormant too. (Which is ok by me, because I
only want anything based on the original movies and the tv series.)
And let us just suppose there has been "a lot of recent Apes activity
and we don't want to appear ungrateful"... All I can say to that is:
Yes we do! Ok, maybe not appear "ungrateful" but damnit, the little
bit of anything we've gotten in the last few years WILL NEVER make up
for the poor treatment Apes received from FOX in the past (and still
does.) Letting some company out of Japan make some kick ass figures
does not make up for the way they constantly shove Apes in the
closet... Any bit of activity going on now should have been going on
for years now, so we do have the right to appear "ungrateful" because
if they care what Apes fans want, then this little bit of activity
going on is just to try pacifying us so they can ignore the big
picture.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:

<<< Are those in the other POTA groups doing anything constructive in
this area?>>>

I asked both the "PotaDG" and the "Friends and Fugitives" groups to
write in... As far as if anyone actually has, other than James1102, I
have NO IDEA! I sure hope they do... We need everyone we can get to
write in on this one....

----- Original Message -----

From: mlccougar <mlccougar@...>

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 7:57 AM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Apes and Animation (partially OT)

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, <veetus@e...> wrote:

Don't hold your breathe for the cartoons. No one has put out
the "Star Trek" or "Star Wars" cartoons on DVD either. They put out
the newer cartoons like "Batman" because they have better quality
animation. But I will ask for the cartoons, too. There's been a lot
of POTA activity recently and we don't want to appear ungrateful. The
big thing for Fox in '03 is "Alien", which had it's big DVD push,
when, in the late '90's? These things go in cycles and I think the
deciding factor will be how well the new "Alien" DVDs sell. It's sci-
fi, it too had a recent non-anamorphic box set. If people in
sufficient numbers buy them again they'll say, "OK, "Apes" next". If
not they'll hold off and give a little distance from the last set.
But an anamorphic "Apes" is inevitable. - - - Jeff

*** As far as the TREK cartoons, I swear I seen them at the store...
Perhaps they were on laser disc then, but I "know" I seen them, so
they were released... As far as SW cartoons: What cartoons? You mean
those Ewok things and DROIDS? My guess is that those won't see the
light of DVD because Lucas is probably as embarrassed by them as he
(and the cast) are of that SW X-mas Special.

My other question to you then is this: What recent APES activity? As
Rory and I pointed out, FOX has NOTHING TO DO with the Medicoms,
(other than setting back and collecting the licensing fee, there by
profitting without any actual involvement.)That POTA 2001 thing,
that's already a distant (if not forgotten) memory to them, and
they're probably not going to do a thing with it (or sequelizing it)
anyhow, so that's lying dormant too. (Which is ok by me, because I
only want anything based on the original movies and the tv series.)
And let us just suppose there has been "a lot of recent Apes activity
and we don't want to appear ungrateful"... All I can say to that is:
Yes we do! Ok, maybe not appear "ungrateful" but damnit, the little
bit of anything we've gotten in the last few years WILL NEVER make up
for the poor treatment Apes received from FOX in the past (and still
does.) Letting some company out of Japan make some kick ass figures
does not make up for the way they constantly shove Apes in the
closet... Any bit of activity going on now should have been going on
for years now, so we do have the right to appear "ungrateful" because
if they care what Apes fans want, then this little bit of activity
going on is just to try pacifying us so they can ignore the big
picture.


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 4:59 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Ordering Medicoms On-line

I just bought the following Medicoms on-line from Amok Time in New York.   Click here: Planet of the Apes    (Thanks Courgar for the heads up.)


Zira Astronaut
$11.99 1 $11.99
Cornelius Astronaut
$11.99 1 $11.99
Milo Astranaut
$11.99 1 $11.99
Caesar
$11.99 1 $11.99

Sub Total: $47.96
  UPS Standard Ground: $9.00
Grand Total: $56.96

It's not a bad price to pay for not having to leave my apartment.  There are no Tower Records are here and Comic Books Stores have all pretty much gone out of business.

-- Rory



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 4:59 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Ordering Medicoms On-line

I just bought the following Medicoms on-line from Amok Time in New York.   Click here: Planet of the Apes    (Thanks Courgar for the heads up.)


Zira Astronaut
$11.99 1 $11.99
Cornelius Astronaut
$11.99 1 $11.99
Milo Astranaut
$11.99 1 $11.99
Caesar
$11.99 1 $11.99

Sub Total: $47.96
  UPS Standard Ground: $9.00
Grand Total: $56.96

It's not a bad price to pay for not having to leave my apartment.  There are no Tower Records are here and Comic Books Stores have all pretty much gone out of business.

-- Rory



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

> Patrick, you have certainly done your homework. Thanks for putting

----- Original Message -----

From: Rich Handley

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2002 7:00 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Digest Number 1511

Regarding the "other" cartoons...

Star Trek has been out on VHS for years, but not DVD.  Droids and Ewoks are
slated for eventual DVD release.




Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

----- Original Message -----

From: patrickmichaeltilton <patrickmichaeltilton@...>

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2002 8:00 AM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Carnivorous Gorillas

Interesting (and disturbing) piece of info regarding captive gorillas
being fed meat. I heard that "Mad Cow Disease" (not to be confused
with PMS!) might be caused by the "feed" they give/gave to cows in
England--OTHER GROUND-UP COWS! It's just like bovine "soylent green"!
So why the f*** are they feeding MEAT to vegetarian animals in zoos?

My take on the "carnivorous gorillas" in PLANET is this: the Nuke War
turned "a paradise" into a "desert"/"wasteland". Around the vicinity
of Dead Lake, NOTHING GROWS. "The terrain around that lake is
poisonous," Cornelius tells Taylor. Dodge told Taylor that nothing
would grow there; "all the nitrogen's locked up in the nitrates". Yet
there's no (longer any) trace of "dangerous ionization", since Dodge
says "No" to Taylor's question about that.

So, in a post-Nuke War environment, there were gorillas living in
that Cave on the seashore, along the ocean coast, and even if they
had agricultural knowledge it wouldn't do 'em much good THERE, since
(as Sam Kinison once hilariously pointed out, in regards to the
Ethiopian famine situation), they LIVE IN A DESERT! NOTHING WILL GROW
HERE! THIS IS SAND... IN A HUNDRED YEARS IT'LL STILL BE SAND! MOVE
WHERE THE FOOD IS!!!.
However, if the gorillas in this Cave had a source of fresh water
nearby (perhaps a stream/tributary of that river which empties into
the Ocean, an offshoot stream not too far away from the Cave), then
they might have survived by FISHING seafood from the Ocean.

They were unlike gorillas in the wild (or in a zoo), since they
used "cutting tools" and "arrowheads of quartz"--meaning, they were
TOOL-USERS. What would they use arrowheads for, other than to kill
enemies and/or game (food animals)? What would they use "cutting
tools" for? Probably for cutting open the hides of any animal they
had killed (to get the hide off, prior to preparing it for clothing,
perhaps--their descendants DO end up wearing leather). They could
have used the Bow-&-Arrow to shoot fish (didn't Rambo do it in one of
those movies?), and then used the "cutting tools" to "clean" the fish
(gutting it, removing the flesh from the sharp bones, etc.).

Why do these gorillas eat meat? Cornelius calls them "carnivorous",
and we must assume that he knows enough about these "pre-historic"
gorillas (as well as the gorillas in his contemporary culture) to
differentiate between the two (his study of the gorilla skulls--
especially their teeth--would probably indicate their meat-eating
diet).

Here's an idea: Perhaps the appearance of the Lawgiver a century
after the "time" of the meat-eating Apes ("1200 years ago", which is
100 years after a time which "dates back 1300 years, roughly") had--
among his accomplishments--the effect of CHANGING these gorillas'
diet from Meat to strictly Vegetarian. Zaius calls his
culture "innocent" (i.e. "Edenic"), where the symbolic fruit of the
tree of Knowledge is not partaken of (since Zaius suppresses
Knowledge)... and in the Biblical story of Eden, it's said that "the
LORD God commanded the man [Adam], saying, "You may freely eat of
every tree of the garden" (Genesis 2:16) except the Tree of Knowledge
fruit. In other words, when "innocent", Man ate Fruits (and,
presumably, Vegetables), and NOT meat. Only after the Deluge did God
allow Noah & his descendants to eat other animals: "Every moving
thing that lives shall be food for you; and as I gave you the green
plants, I give you everything. Only you shall not eat flesh with its
life, that is, its blood" (Genesis 9:3-4). So, perhaps the Advent of
the "Sacred Scrolls"-writing Lawgiver heralded a massive change in
the way of life of these carnivorous gorillas--perhaps he persuaded
them to give up eating Flesh in favor of "Eden"-food (Fruits, Nuts, &
Vegetables), "cuz we got to get ourselves back to the garrrrrdennnn"
(as the song goes). Eating an Herbivorous diet (forsaking
Carnivorism), it could be said, makes someone "more holy", "pure",
and "closer to God".

Anybody remember Marvel's "TERROR ON THE PLANET OF THE APES", where
Jason & Lightsmith happen upon that "Assimian"/"Assisimian" tribe
[they spelled it both ways: ONE way is, presumably, a mistake!], (led
by Maguanas), as they were about to roast alive Alexander and
Malaguena? I always got the feeling that Doug Moench was hinting that
his "As(sis)imians" were the "carnivorous gorillas" mentioned in
PLANET--or, at least, related to them. They even have bows-&-arrows,
though, luckily, Lightsmith has better weapons: Grenades!

At any rate, the fact that Gorillas go hunting in 3955 should show
that their ancestors once hunted wild animals, too... but for what
purpose? For sport? Or for survival? I suspect that before the
gorillas in PLANET hunted humans with Rifles on horseback for Sport,
their ancestors hunted animals with Bow-&-Arrow for Food.

And that leads to a ghastly thought...

What if BOTH groups hunted the SAME animal... the animal Man? What if
the same species which is hunted in 3955 for Sport is the same one
the carnivorous ancestors once hunted for Food? No wonder the sound
of that "roar" from the hunters' Horn scared the living shit out of
those crop-ravaging mute humans! Their distant ancestors were
(perhaps) once the Game/Prey of hungry, meat-eating Gorillas.

It must not have been very nice to be a Human BEFORE the Lawgiver
came along... though his influence on the Gorillas' diet was a
welcome change for the better (from the Humans' standpoint),
the "devil's pawn"/"harbinger of Death" label was an UNwelcome change
for the worse. Thus, instead of hunting Humans for Food, as their
ancestors had done, the Gorillas now (circa 2755ff) hunt Humans in
order to "cull the herd", to keep their numbers down ("...let him
[Man] not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his
home and yours...").

No wonder Hasslein wanted to kill the Ape-onauts, AND the unborn
chimp in Zira's womb.

Patrick




Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, <veetus@e...> wrote:
Hey Rich, vote for your favorite "Ape" movie. This is your last
chance. - - - Jeff

**And after voting, how 'bout changing that subject line!***



----- Original Message -----
From: Rich Handley
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2002 7:00 AM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Digest Number 1511

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2002 11:00 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Carnivorous Gorillas

In a message dated 12/24/02 1:33:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, mlccougar@... writes:

Why Cornelius calls them "carnivorous"? My guess is that he seen the
cutting tools and arrow heads of quartz and assumed they were
hunters. Granted maybe they did kill animals and eat them on
occasion, but maybe (just maybe) the tools and arrows were used for
battles/self defense, and not so much in hunting. As far as the
skulls Cornelius found, I really can't see there being any difference
between the skull of a carnivorous gorilla or a vegetarian one. I
mean all gorillas have large canine teeth, and canine teeth are a
common trait in flesh eating mammals (or those that could adapt to it
in the case of gorillas.)

Oh let's face it guys. . . .Either Rod Serling or Michael Wilson and everyone else involved didn't know DICK about gorillas

.


-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

>
> Okay, here's some proof there must be female gorillas around someplace.
>

----- Original Message -----

From: mlccougar <mlccougar@...>

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2002 8:54 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Calling Krueger

Just wondering if you're ever going to post the rest of that Star-
Con '98 thing? Or was it all posted already and I overlooked it?

----- Original Message -----

From: mlccougar <mlccougar@...>

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2002 9:06 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Caesar's Medicom picture

Ok, it's pretty sad that it's come down to this to get any talk going
in here, but who else has noticed that you can see Roddy's "real"
mouth behind his Ape mouth on the Greatest Ape (Lawgiver) Medicom
card? (It's a shot of the infamous "Now fight like Apes" scene for
those who don't have that figure...)


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> Yes, I thought that was an odd picture for the card. Are you

----- Original Message -----

From: mlccougar <mlccougar@...>

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2002 9:58 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Caesar's Medicom picture

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, <veetus@e...> wrote:
>   Yes, I thought that was an odd picture for the card. Are you
saying you've found Medicoms? - - - Jeff

*** I WISH!!!! The only place I've bought them was on eBay... So far,
I have two. One is the Zira astronaut (Original release)which I
bought last year, and the The Greatest Ape (reissue I think)which I
just recently purchased... I am getting the urge to go outta town to
the nearset Media Play and see if they have any of them... Do you (or
anyone in here) know if a store called Spencer's Gifts might have
them?

Also, speaking of the reissues, is there any way to tell if it IS a
reissue? Like is the copyright date on the back different? Any
writing variations? Anything?


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> Or just order them over the Internet like I did. What's wrong with

> And now's a good time to WRITE IN TO FOX and say "I saw the long
> version of BATTLE on the FOX Movie Channel... When are you going to
> release it on DVD??"

----- Original Message -----

From: mlccougar <mlccougar@...>

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, December 27, 2002 5:29 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Caesar's Medicom picture

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:

> Or just order them over the Internet like I did.  What's wrong with
that?  Saves gas on a lot of pointless running around like a crazed
monkey with its balls cut off.

-- Rory


**TRUE, BUT then when you order over the 'Net, you get stuck paying
all that extra money on postage... I mean while an $11 figure looks
cheap enough, when you add "up to" $6 for postage per figure
(depending on the seller,) you could possibly pay $17 for an $11
figure...

And about looking at them at the store, Jeff was right when he said
he likes to look at them before buying them, then you can choose the
one you like rather than what is sent to you. I know what he's
talking about when he says about getting the one with the paint job,
etc. on it that is your personal preference...


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> what the interest would be in a DVD release?

> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "patrickmichaeltilton
> <patrickmichaeltilton@y...>" <patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:
>
> <<<Interesting (and disturbing) piece of info regarding captive
> gorillas being fed meat.
>
> Why do these gorillas eat meat? Cornelius calls them "carnivorous",

>
> ***My guess is that that small band of flesh eaters were

>
> Why Cornelius calls them "carnivorous"? My guess is that he seen

> I just found this bit of (good) news on THE FORBIDDEN ZONE sight...
>
> Recent Updates:
>
> December 18, 2002
> <A HREF="http://www.theforbidden-

> is hosting a <A HREF="http://www.theforbidden-

>
> And to top it all off, the Fox Movie Channel is showing the