> I watched that USA thing, "Helen of Troy". The music was by Joel
>Goldsmith- - - any relation?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Madsen" <bcmExMo@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2003 7:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Goldsmith scores!


> At 05:54 PM 4/27/2003 -0700, you wrote:
> > I watched that USA thing, "Helen of Troy". The music was by Joel
> >Goldsmith- - - any relation?
>
> Joel is Jerry's son.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

-----Original Message-----
From: veetus@... [veetus@...]
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 1:25 PM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Goldsmith scores!

  Ooops, sorry. That was for a different group. - - - Jeff


----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Madsen" <bcmExMo@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2003 7:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Goldsmith scores!


> At 05:54 PM 4/27/2003 -0700, you wrote:
> >  I watched that USA thing, "Helen of Troy". The music was by Joel
> >Goldsmith- - - any relation?
>
> Joel is Jerry's son.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

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----- Original Message -----

From: Michael Whitty

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 1:17 AM

Subject: RE: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Goldsmith scores!

Who are you calling different?

-----Original Message-----
From: veetus@... [veetus@...]
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 1:25 PM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Goldsmith scores!

  Ooops, sorry. That was for a different group. - - - Jeff


----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Madsen" <bcmExMo@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2003 7:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Goldsmith scores!


> At 05:54 PM 4/27/2003 -0700, you wrote:
> >  I watched that USA thing, "Helen of Troy". The music was by Joel
> >Goldsmith- - - any relation?
>
> Joel is Jerry's son.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

--

</ font />

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

-----Original Message-----
From: veetus@... [veetus@...]
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 1:00 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Goldsmith scores!

 That post was supposed to go to a film group. - - - Jeff

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Michael Whitty

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 1:17 AM

Subject: RE: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Goldsmith scores!

Who are you calling different?

-----Original Message-----
From: veetus@... [veetus@...]
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 1:25 PM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Goldsmith scores!

  Ooops, sorry. That was for a different group. - - - Jeff


----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Madsen" <bcmExMo@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2003 7:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Goldsmith scores!


> At 05:54 PM 4/27/2003 -0700, you wrote:
> >  I watched that USA thing, "Helen of Troy". The music was by Joel
> >Goldsmith- - - any relation?
>
> Joel is Jerry's son.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

-- Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

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COMIC:

 

The first part of the comic (pages 1 - 3) are inked and on their way to me (should have them in my hands any second now).

 

The 4th page is fully pencilled and pages 5 and 6 roughed out.

 

Also included in the package is a copy of a sketch Neil did of some female apes. After one of the discussions the other week on the group site about the lack of 'other' types of females, other than chimps ever being seen, Neil was inspired to have a go at drawing some. He has asked me to scan these and post to the group.  I will do this shortly....my scanner is working now but I am unable to convert the images to jpeg.  I am working on this as we speak so please be patient.

 

MEDICOM:

 

As nost of you realise, I spoke to a Medicom representative but sadly lost a lot in the interpretation so I did not get all the answers I sought.  I have a friend in Japan who speaks very good English....I will be relaying the unanswered questions to him to pass on.  Essentially, Medicom no longer has the License to do POTA figures, so dreams of a Limited Edition Fan Club Character have been smashed!

 

FOX:

 

The QUICK brown Fox?  Nah, just quick to try making a buck.  Still waiting to hear back from them about:

 

(1) what deleted scenes/altenate editions exist and whether they have any plans to (or NOT to?) ever release them;

 

(2) whether the Fan Club can obtain a Limited Fan Club License to produce a small run of:

 

(a) Deleted Scenes;

(b) Altenate Versions;

(c) Animated Series

 

...on VHS or DVD.

 

Still waiting...........

 

I have a phone number I'll be trying shortly...I'll get back to you.

 

Just a reminder...the Official International Planet of the Apes Fan Club is a Non-Profit organisation dedicated to getting down to the level of the fans and determining what they want....so let me know if there is anything you want!  It is also a central focal point for ape fans to bring them together and let them know what is out there.  to join, just send your mailing details to: whitty@... or Michael Whitty, 25 Hilder Street, WESTON  ACT  2611 AUSTRALIA.  Membership is free.

 

There is as yet no paper publication related to the club, and I am not planning to ever take on publishing a Fanzine.  However, there is an active Fanzine, Simian Scrolls, published by John Roche in the UK.  There is also another Fanzine that has not been published for some time, but Jeff K has been furiously gathering material for many new issues, so be prepared for Ape Chronicles to be back in circulation soon.  John and Jeff are both members of the potaDG (Planet of the Apes Discussion Group) and I hope they will offer updates and subscription information.  Maybe we could even go through back issues and offer past articles to the group for discussion???

 

Cheers

 

Michael

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 3:59 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Check out Film Score Monthly . COM

You humans might want to answer the poll currently on Film Score Monthly.

Click here: Film Score Monthly . COM

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, <veetus@e...> wrote:
> There's an ape on the current cover. What's that all about? - - -
Jeff

>From: "Alan Maxwell" <alan@...>
>Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Goldsmith scores!
>Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 23:22:45 +0100
>

> the soundtrack for planet of the apes 68, is a fantastic creation.

>

-----Original Message-----
From: sand_hill_school [sand_hill_school@...]
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 11:26 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Letters to Fox...

I'm wondering... to those of you who wrote to Michael Dunn and Peter
Staddon at Fox, did you receive any response?  I has been about six
weeks. Maybe I'm impatient.  It seems odd to me that I haven't
received anything by way of a reply.  Usually you would expect some
response...  coupons, junk mail, form letter, postcard.  But I have
received no acknowledgement from either of these men.  Do we have
the correct address?

--Helen





To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
PotaDG-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Dean" <peaceman@s...> wrote:
> Hello all!
>
> This is your last chance to snatch up my 6 HUGE movie banners of
POTA 2001. I have placed them on ebay for a low opening bid of $75
with a buy-it-now of $100 (which will include FREE SHIPPING and a
BONUS banner). Just click on the link below and bid away...you won't
regret it...these banners are gorgeous...much nicer than the pictures
show!
>
> http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2172834754

> Last chance?
>
> What are you talking about? There's no bids yet and I can almost

> there never will be!
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Dean" <peaceman@s...> wrote:
> > Hello all!
> >
> > This is your last chance to snatch up my 6 HUGE movie banners of
> POTA 2001. I have placed them on ebay for a low opening bid of $75
> with a buy-it-now of $100 (which will include FREE SHIPPING and a
> BONUS banner). Just click on the link below and bid away...you

> regret it...these banners are gorgeous...much nicer than the

> show!
> >
> > http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2172834754

>"Dean" <peaceman@s...> wrote:
> Hello all!
>
>This is your last chance to snatch up my 6 HUGE movie banners of
>POTA 2001. I have placed them on ebay for a low opening bid of $75
>with a buy-it-now of $100 (which will include FREE SHIPPING and a
>BONUS banner). Just click on the link below and bid away...you won't
>regret it...these banners are gorgeous...much nicer than the pictures
>show!

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Rutkoski" <johnnyx59@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2003 8:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Goldsmith scores!


> the soundtrack for planet of the apes 68, is a fantastic creation. the
mood
> creations it does for film is fantastic., i forget all the instruments
> that were used. i know a few. i think a ram's horn. some kind of bass
> whistle. can some one tell me thre rest.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Alan Maxwell" <alan@...>
> >Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> >To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> >Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Goldsmith scores!
> >Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2003 23:22:45 +0100
> >
>
>
> _____

> Michael,
>
> Are you interested in the POTA banners? If security
> is an issue, I certainly can post them on ebay and
> give you the item number with buy it now. Let me
> know.
>
> Rosanne
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Michael Whitty
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 6:13 AM
> Subject: RE: [Planet of the Apes] Planet of the
> Apes
>
>
> Cougar
>
> Get in line buddy!
>
> Seriously though, this is a very good buy for POTA
> 2001 fans.
>
> Michael
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dean [peaceman@...]
> Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 12:58 AM
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com;
> planetoftheapes2001remake@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Planet of the Apes
>
>
>
> Hello fellow ape lovers!
>
> You will not believe what I have come
> accross....I have the entire collection of 6 movie
> theatre vinyl banners that are over 4 feet by 6 feet
> each, and feature the stars from Tim Burton's remake
> of Planet of the Apes!!!
>
> They are in mint condition and include the faces
> of:
> Thade (Tim Roth)
> Leo Davidson (Mark Wahlberg)
> Ari (Helena Bonham Carter)
> Deanna (Estella Warren)
> Limbo (Paul Giamatti)
> Attar (Michael Clark Duncan)
>
> These are gorgeous, mint condition banners,
> large enough put together to probably cover the
> walls entire in one rec room or other. I'm selling
> the group for only $100 US plus shipping and
> handling, so whom ever wants them, email me at
> peaceman@... before it's too late! I'm
> thinking some lucky fan is gonna snatch these up
> fast. Email me if you are interested.....SEE MY
> PICS BELOW...they don't do these banners justice!
>
> Rosanne
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> Terms of Service.
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, jim diamond <chicagofunfun@y...> wrote:

<<< Hi all..I'm going to get my first tattoo, and its going to be
POTA related. Just wanted to check if anyone may have some pics
available via email of the various glyphs on uniforms, or ANY other
cool POTA insignias,logos, etc. >>>

*** The APES heiroglyphics as a tattoo? I'd be very careful who you
choose to do that, because something like that could VERY EASILY end
up looking like a "Tribal" tattoo design... I would go more for an
APES character or something if you're gonna go the APES route with
something you'll have forever... The heirogylphics are neat designs
in some cases, but they could end up looking like an Oriental or
Tribal design...***

<<< I always thought the fish logo the town leader wore in
the "fishing" tv episode (the one were Burke and Virdon wrestled
sharks underwater and swam under fire, that ruled!)... Thanks your
help. >>>

*** Are you talking about the metal fish Hurton has on his collar
(and Bandor has on his necklace)?

> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, jim diamond
> <chicagofunfun@y...> wrote:
>
> <<< Hi all..I'm going to get my first tattoo, and
> its going to be
> POTA related. Just wanted to check if anyone may
> have some pics
> available via email of the various glyphs on
> uniforms, or ANY other
> cool POTA insignias,logos, etc. >>>
>
> *** The APES heiroglyphics as a tattoo? I'd be very
> careful who you
> choose to do that, because something like that could
> VERY EASILY end
> up looking like a "Tribal" tattoo design... I would
> go more for an
> APES character or something if you're gonna go the
> APES route with
> something you'll have forever... The heirogylphics
> are neat designs
> in some cases, but they could end up looking like an
> Oriental or
> Tribal design...***
>
> <<< I always thought the fish logo the town leader
> wore in
> the "fishing" tv episode (the one were Burke and
> Virdon wrestled
> sharks underwater and swam under fire, that
> ruled!)... Thanks your
> help. >>>
>
> *** Are you talking about the metal fish Hurton has
> on his collar
> (and Bandor has on his necklace)?
>
>

> Here is an insignia you may think of using
> (attached). Where, exactly, are
> you placing this tattoo?
>
> -Joe
>

> ATTACHMENT part 2 image/gif name=insignia.gif

----- Original Message -----
From: "jim diamond" <chicagofunfun@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2003 8:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Apes "glyphs" needed for
tattoo..thanks


> --- mlccougar <mlccougar@...> wrote:
> > --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, jim diamond
> > <chicagofunfun@y...> wrote:
> >
> > <<< Hi all..I'm going to get my first tattoo, and
> > its going to be
> > POTA related. Just wanted to check if anyone may
> > have some pics
> > available via email of the various glyphs on
> > uniforms, or ANY other
> > cool POTA insignias,logos, etc. >>>
> >
> > *** The APES heiroglyphics as a tattoo? I'd be very
> > careful who you
> > choose to do that, because something like that could
> > VERY EASILY end
> > up looking like a "Tribal" tattoo design... I would
> > go more for an
> > APES character or something if you're gonna go the
> > APES route with
> > something you'll have forever... The heirogylphics
> > are neat designs
> > in some cases, but they could end up looking like an
> > Oriental or
> > Tribal design...***
> >
> > <<< I always thought the fish logo the town leader
> > wore in
> > the "fishing" tv episode (the one were Burke and
> > Virdon wrestled
> > sharks underwater and swam under fire, that
> > ruled!)... Thanks your
> > help. >>>
> >
> > *** Are you talking about the metal fish Hurton has
> > on his collar
> > (and Bandor has on his necklace)?
> >
> >
> thanks for the feedback, but I am going for the tribal
> look. something other than the standard "tribal"
> stripes or band. I think getting an actual character
> is overboard a bit, and my friends, family, (and
> women!) would look at me like im some sorta
> freak...which I am about pota, and everyone knows it
> already, but to get a tattoo might be a lil much...
>
> hmmmm although a tattoo of the almighty lawgiver
> Proteus, or maybe Caesar himself would be pretty
> freaking cool!!,
>
>

-----Original Message-----
From: CheeseGOTAS@... [CheeseGOTAS@...]
Sent: Monday, 5 May 2003 11:57 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] POTA "Glyphs" needed for tattoo..thanks!

Here is an insignia you may think of using (attached).  Where, exactly, are you placing this tattoo?

-----Original Message-----
From: CheeseGOTAS@... [CheeseGOTAS@...]
Sent: Monday, 5 May 2003 11:57 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] POTA "Glyphs" needed for tattoo..thanks!

Here is an insignia you may think of using (attached).  Where, exactly, are you placing this tattoo

----- Original Message -----
From: "loshgeek" <loshgeek@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 3:03 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Bill Blake


> Many many years ago, around 1982 or so, Bill Blake did a
> head-casting for me. A year or two later, he borrowed it for a
> movie he was working on, then he moved, then I moved, then I
> lost his number, then life intervened.
>
> So anyway, somethign receently reminded me of him, so I did a
> Google and found his name in an old post here, and tried to
> contact him, but the e-mail address was no longer valid.
>
> Does anybody know how to get hold of him? Just for old times'
> sake and to catch up and all that jazz.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 11:56 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Ape Females

I had the post to end all posts on the Ape Females thread, but it got rejected.  : (  Perhaps it's not as funny as I thought  --  are they ever?  Oh well, maybe I'll post it on the other POTA group -- or if you want I'll send it to you privately.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

-----Original Message-----
From: LordTZer0@... [LordTZer0@...]
Sent: Thursday, 8 May 2003 4:57 PM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Ape Females

I had the post to end all posts on the Ape Females thread, but it got rejected.  : (  Perhaps it's not as funny as I thought  --  are they ever?  Oh well, maybe I'll post it on the other POTA group -- or if you want I'll send it to you privately.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

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-----Original Message-----
From: veetus@... [veetus@...]
Sent: Thursday, 8 May 2003 5:13 PM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Ape Females

  Wrong group, T. We don't reject anyone here, brother. - - - Jeff

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 11:56 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Ape Females

I had the post to end all posts on the Ape Females thread, but it got rejected.  : (  Perhaps it's not as funny as I thought  --  are they ever?  Oh well, maybe I'll post it on the other POTA group -- or if you want I'll send it to you privately.

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

--
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-----Original Message-----
From: Haristas@... [Haristas@...]
Sent: Thursday, 8 May 2003 9:52 PM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Ape Females

In a message dated 5/8/03 4:42:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

Are you sure?
Well, here goes . . .



An excerpt from my new screenplay


Planet of the Rapes...

T, you've gone out of your mind!  Kim Hunter is looking down on you and shaking her head in disbelief and shame!

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

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by font><.html

>
> > >> T, you've gone out of your mind! Kim Hunter is looking down

>
> Oh now, come on. Who didn't know there was something going on

>
> And now you'll never look at the movie again without thinking that!

> In a message dated 5/6/03 8:33:59 PM Central
> Daylight Time, valwp@...
> writes:
>
> > re: the parody site, it looks like he's on Chapter
> 7. Here's the link:
> > <A
>

> >
> > Kass
> >
>
> Thank you!
>
> -Joe
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "lordtzer0" <LordTZer0@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2003 7:06 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] email


> My email is all screwed up, and I don't think it's just Yahoo. It's
> probably AOL, because it takes 5 minutes to send a 2 word sentence.
>
> here's one that didn't make it.
>
> how did the subjuct up there get changed to talking about
> porn...i must have missed something!! Ape Porn
> ?
>
> As I rightly remember, the drawing of the females in the market
> touched off a discussion about the roles of females in ape society.
> This then lead to a discussion about ape females in general. Then
> someone, not me mind you, made a comment about Ari being hot, or
> something like that. Which caused Michael to freak on the "ick'
> Animal" factor involved in trans-special dating (I still don't know
> how to spell SPECIES - IAL without it becoming SPECIAL -- maybe
> Patrick knows) Which apparently is not a problem in movies like Star
> Trek, as long as they look like an animal that isn't such a close
> relative as apes. This then lead to the discussion of the undertones
> of interracial dating in POTA, and then doubled back to the under
> current of sexual tension between Zira and Taylor throughout the
> film, though it was more of a subtext (read between the lines) than
> the book. This then lead to the discourse on porno parody titles
> i.e. Planet of the Gapes. I think if I now mention the soft-core
> girl-on-girl Playmate of the Apes the topic is pretty much covered
> and can be left to the archives. Do let me know if I left anything
> out. Now if you'll excuse me I have a Japanese final to study for.
> Perhaps we can put this thread in a time capsule. I'm sure most of
> it was already covered after Wahlberg started that rumor about Leo &
> Ari.
>
> "And let that be an end to it. End To It!"
> ~~~Ringo Star from the movie HEKP~~~~
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, May 09, 2003 3:54 AM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Giant Chimps or New Species?

Anybody else read about this?


Elusive African Apes: Giant Chimps or New Species?

John Roach
for National Geographic News
April 14, 2003


A mysterious group of apes found in the war-torn Democratic Republic of Congo in central Africa has scientists and conservationist scratching their heads. The apes nest on the ground like gorillas but have a diet and features characteristic of chimpanzees. The apes are most likely a group of giant chimpanzees that display gorilla-like behavior. A far more remote possibility is that they represent a new subspecies of great ape. Researchers plan to return to the region later this month to collect more clues to help resolve the mystery. The detective story began in 1908 when a Belgian army officer returned home with several gorilla skulls from near the town of Bili on the Uele River and gave them to the Belgium's Royal Museum for Central Africa in Tervuren. In 1927 the museum's curator classified the skulls as a new subspecies of gorilla, Gorilla gorilla uellensis.


A remote camera trap captured this shot of a "Bondo mystery ape" in the Democratic Republic of Congo. Most experts believe the unusual band of apes are giant chimpanzees that display gorilla-like behavior. One countervailing theory, however, holds that the band represents a new subspecies of great ape.

Photograph copyright Karl Ammann

Intrigued by the subspecies, Colin Groves, now an anthropologist at the Australian National University in Canberra, examined the skulls in 1970 and determined that they were indistinguishable from western gorillas, one of the two known species of gorilla. No further specimens of this gorilla from Bili have since been found. In 1996, Swiss-born, Kenya-based wildlife photographer and conservationist Karl Ammann embarked on a quest to rediscover the mysterious gorillas. To date, Ammann has not found the gorilla. But he has collected a wealth of information including skulls, ground nests, hair and fecal samples, footprints, and, most recently, photographs of what appears to be a chimpanzee that behaves like a gorilla. Scientific analysis of this data is still being conducted. Ammann awaits the results before making an official announcement about the finds. Meanwhile, he continues to recruit scientists to study the case. Shelly Williams, an independent primate behavior specialist in Atlanta, Georgia, who has a doctorate in experimental psychology, spent two months in the northern Democratic Republic of Congo last year trying to determine the identity of these apes. She said "at the very least, we have either a new culture of chimps that are unusually large or hybrids with unusual behaviors." Williams and Groves will meet Ammann in Kenya this month before traveling to the Congo to conduct further studies on the mysterious apes.

Ground Nesting Chimp?

Since Ammann launched his quest, he has led expeditions into the Bili forest in the northern Democratic Republic of Congo where the original skulls were recovered. On his first trip, Ammann recovered a skull which had a pronounced ridge on its forehead characteristic of gorilla. The rest of the measurements link the skull to that of a chimpanzee. For the next several years civil war in the Democratic Republic of Congo made travel to the Bili forest difficult. Ammann recruited a bush meat hunter from Cameroon to visit and survey the area. The hunter returned with photographs and reports of gorilla ground nests in an area north of Bili. In 2000, Ammann returned to the area described by the bush meat hunter with a group of ape researchers. Although they did not find a live ape, the group did stumble across several well-worn ground nests in swampy river beds. Ground nests are characteristic of gorillas. Chimpanzees are thought to prefer to sleep in trees. However, an analysis of feces found in the nests suggests that whatever left them was eating a diet rich in fruits, a diet characteristic of chimpanzees, not gorillas. Other evidence collected from the site includes hair samples, which have been sent out to various laboratories for DNA analysis. The initial results indicate they belong to a chimpanzee. All of this evidence is causing the researchers to believe that what Ammann has found is a chimpanzee that behaves like a gorilla. "It is a chimpanzee," said Esteban Sarmiento, a functional anatomist at the American Museum of Natural History in New York who traveled to the region with Ammann in 2000. "There are presently three recognized subspecies of common chimpanzee Pan troglodytes and it could represent a fourth subspecies or change our present understanding of where to draw the divisions between subspecies."

Giant Chimps

Local hunters in the region added to the mystery when they told Ammann and his colleagues about two kinds of chimpanzees in the region. Normal chimps, so-called "tree-beaters," are easily killed with poisonous arrows when they feed in trees. Another, large chimpanzee seldom climbs trees and does not succumb to the poison arrows shot by the hunters. Called "lion killers," these big chimpanzees flee through the thick forest and disappear when shot at by hunters. Evidence for these giant chimpanzees collected by Ammann includes a photograph of a cadaver alongside the hunter that killed it and casts of some large footprints. The pronounced ridge, called a sagittal crest, on the skull that Ammann found in 1996 is thought to be formed to support large jaw muscles, an indication of large body size. "Giant chimpanzees occasionally occur here and there in the central and eastern subspecies, but evidence so far indicates that Karl [Ammann] may have a population of giants in his area," said Groves. "Presumably their giantism is relevant to their ground nesting behavior." This group of what appear to be a distinct culture of ground-nesting chimpanzees is the now focus of Ammann's research. "Work has started on habituating one of the ground nesting chimp groups. This is done by provisioning them with sugar cane," he said. This habituation will allow the researchers to document this new culture of chimpanzee as the researchers await the results of nuclear DNA analysis to determine if what they have is indeed a new subspecies of chimpanzee or simply a unique culture. Either way, the scientists are intrigued. "Discovering an isolated group of apes exhibiting unusual cultural behaviors is just as important as identifying new DNA profiles. That's why continuous observation, habituation, and surveying are so important," said Williams. Additionally, researchers have not yet given up on the possibility of finding gorillas in the area. "I would think there is a strong possibility that south of Bili on the other side of the Uele River there may be gorillas, and this would seem an important area to turn our attention to," said Sarmiento.





Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

----- Original Message -----

From: Kassidy Rae

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, May 09, 2003 4:06 AM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Soylent Green (OT)

Just heard this is to be released August 5 on dvd, retailing for $20.  Wahoo, I used to love that movie. 

Kassidy

---

-----Original Message-----
From: LordTZer0@... [LordTZer0@...]
Sent: Saturday, 10 May 2003 6:22 PM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] FW: [PotaDG] Ape females

In a message dated 5/10/2003 1:52:52 AM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

I've seen the article on the Giant Chimpanzees, the Legendary Lion Killers of the Congo, and I have two theories.  Either Mike's is wrong and primates can interbreed, and they are a gorilla chimpanzee hybrid.  Or they are evolving until they are big enough to become slaves and do chores, or take over the World, or both in that order.

Mike never wrote this.
What is he such a control freak he's stealing my posts!?
Or was there supposed to be a comment with this?

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----- Original Message -----
From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2003 7:01 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] 'trans-species', "OMEGA MAN", "giant chimp",
etc.


> 1. I'm pretty sure "trans-species" is correct, M'lud T.
>
> 2. "OMEGA MAN" & "SOYLENT GREEN"... 'geek heaven'? Sure, why not!
> It'll be 'Chuck-a-riffic'... or is that 'Hestonderful'? By the way,
> Rory (you "LOGAN'S RUN"-basher, you), the main reason the movie
> version of "LOGAN'S RUN"--as opposed to the book--has the citizens
> being killed off via the 'Carrousel'/'Flame-Out' ritual, rather than
> just going to a 'Sleepshop' and being painlessly put to Sleep (like
> an unwanted doggie at the Pound), is because of the way they
> portrayed the euthanization of Edward G. Robinson in "SOYLENT GREEN".
> Since the novel "LOGAN'S RUN" (written, of course BEFORE the making
> of "SOYLENT GREEN") portrays a similar type of euthanizing procedure,
> MGM felt it had to make the process different for their film version
> of "LOGAN'S RUN". As much as I dig the book, the 'Carrousel' change
> was a good one, insofar as they were forced to change a lot of other
> stuff anyway (for budgetary reasons--SFX limitations).
>
> 3. That "giant chimpanzee" creature: interesting! Once they do all
> the DNA work on it, I wonder how much it'll rewrite the book on
> the "recent" divergence of Man, Chimp, and Gorilla from the common
> ancestor, which DNA evidence suggests lived around 4-to-5 Million
> years ago? Perhaps the "common ancestor" first branched off into the
> Gorillas and the Giant Chimps, and then the Giant Chimp (still very
> much like a Gorilla) branched off into the Chimp/Human group.
> Or... maybe... just MAYBE... some goofy bastards purposely did some
> cross-breeding of Chimps and Gorillas to create a gorilla-like Chimp
> (or, a chimp-like Gorilla). How many of these creatures ARE there,
> anyway? They've only been able to estimate the (sadly, DECLINING)
> numbers of Chimps and Gorillas in Africa--I wonder what this new
> information will bring to bear on that. I hope that NAT'L GEOGRAPHIC,
> SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN, DISCOVER magazine (etc.) will do in-depth
> articles on this "giant chimp" species.
>
> 4. Say, Jeff! Do you need me to send you a Money Order before you'll
> get your arse over to Kinko's and make that copy of the "CONQUEST"
> script for me? As long as it won't cost me an arm & a leg, I'll be
> more than happy to do so (not that I'd enjoy cutting off my own arm,
> like that unlucky dude who got his arm trapped by a boulder had to
> do... with a poor-man's Swiss-Army-knife! now, THAT had to have
> sucked!). Let's git crackin', Veetus! Hyah! >insert Indiana Jones'
> bullwhip sound-effect here<
>
> Patrick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

-----Original Message-----
From: veetus@... [veetus@...]
Sent: Sunday, 11 May 2003 2:15 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] 'trans-species', "OMEGA MAN", "giant chimp", etc.

  Sorry, Patrick. I got so offended by one of your chronology concepts that
I burned the "Conquest" script and yelled, "Now Patrick will NEVER have it!
Bwaa! Haa! Haa!" Then I realized now I don't have the script either. The
stupid things people do.
  Naaw, I'm just lazy. - - - Jeff


----- Original Message -----
From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2003 7:01 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] 'trans-species', "OMEGA MAN", "giant chimp",
etc.


> 1. I'm pretty sure "trans-species" is correct, M'lud T.
>
> 2. "OMEGA MAN" & "SOYLENT GREEN"... 'geek heaven'? Sure, why not!
> It'll be 'Chuck-a-riffic'... or is that 'Hestonderful'? By the way,
> Rory (you "LOGAN'S RUN"-basher, you), the main reason the movie
> version of "LOGAN'S RUN"--as opposed to the book--has the citizens
> being killed off via the 'Carrousel'/'Flame-Out' ritual, rather than
> just going to a 'Sleepshop' and being painlessly put to Sleep (like
> an unwanted doggie at the Pound), is because of the way they
> portrayed the euthanization of Edward G. Robinson in "SOYLENT GREEN".
> Since the novel "LOGAN'S RUN" (written, of course BEFORE the making
> of "SOYLENT GREEN") portrays a similar type of euthanizing procedure,
> MGM felt it had to make the process different for their film version
> of "LOGAN'S RUN". As much as I dig the book, the 'Carrousel' change
> was a good one, insofar as they were forced to change a lot of other
> stuff anyway (for budgetary reasons--SFX limitations).
>
> 3. That "giant chimpanzee" creature: interesting! Once they do all
> the DNA work on it, I wonder how much it'll rewrite the book on
> the "recent" divergence of Man, Chimp, and Gorilla from the common
> ancestor, which DNA evidence suggests lived around 4-to-5 Million
> years ago? Perhaps the "common ancestor" first branched off into the
> Gorillas and the Giant Chimps, and then the Giant Chimp (still very
> much like a Gorilla) branched off into the Chimp/Human group.
> Or... maybe... just MAYBE... some goofy bastards purposely did some
> cross-breeding of Chimps and Gorillas to create a gorilla-like Chimp
> (or, a chimp-like Gorilla). How many of these creatures ARE there,
> anyway? They've only been able to estimate the (sadly, DECLINING)
> numbers of Chimps and Gorillas in Africa--I wonder what this new
> information will bring to bear on that. I hope that NAT'L GEOGRAPHIC,
> SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN, DISCOVER magazine (etc.) will do in-depth
> articles on this "giant chimp" species.
>
> 4. Say, Jeff! Do you need me to send you a Money Order before you'll
> get your arse over to Kinko's and make that copy of the "CONQUEST"
> script for me? As long as it won't cost me an arm & a leg, I'll be
> more than happy to do so (not that I'd enjoy cutting off my own arm,
> like that unlucky dude who got his arm trapped by a boulder had to
> do... with a poor-man's Swiss-Army-knife! now, THAT had to have
> sucked!). Let's git crackin', Veetus! Hyah! >insert Indiana Jones'
> bullwhip sound-effect here<
>
> Patrick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

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> Just wanted Jay to know his drawing is up at the tv

----- Original Message -----
From: "mlccougar" <mlccougar@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 8:14 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: jay's "Galen"


> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Kassidy Rae <valwp@y...> wrote:
> > Just wanted Jay to know his drawing is up at the tv
> website:http://planetoftheapestv.150m.com/miscellaneous.html" Kass
>
> Also, just wanted to add that I looked at that picture and it's
> really good, and as always, the "TV sight" is very well done!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

  I second that emotion. Kassidy, you're doing a great job. It's better than
the Sauseville book. And a good pic, Jay. - - - Jeff


----- Original Message -----
From: "mlccougar" <mlccougar@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 8:14 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: jay's "Galen"


> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Kassidy Rae <valwp@y...> wrote:
> > Just wanted Jay to know his drawing is up at the tv
> website:http://planetoftheapestv.150m.com/miscellaneous.html" Kass
>
> Also, just wanted to add that I looked at that picture and it's
> really good, and as always, the "TV sight" is very well done!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

---

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:

<<<I wonder why none of the movie sites are that well done?>>>

*** My guess is because Fox runs the only "official" one, and any Fan
sights that do exist are pretty much run outta town...***

----- Original Message -----

From: Kassidy Rae

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2003 12:55 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] jay's "Galen"

Just wanted Jay to know his drawing is up at the tv website:

http://planetoftheapestv.150m.com/miscellaneous.html"

 

Kass

---

 

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Kassidy Rae

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2003 12:55 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] jay's "Galen"

Just wanted Jay to know his drawing is up at the tv website:

http://planetoftheapestv.150m.com/miscellaneous.html"

 

Kass

---

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2003 4:42 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] TV site

In a message dated 5/14/03 7:35:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time, valwp@... writes:

Jeff, as far as my quote for Roddy... I got it from a tape Rory sent me.  Rory, are you out there? Where did that extended Roddy interview come from?

I'm still here.  That Roddy interview came from the Special Edition DVD of BEHIND THE PLANET OF THE APES.

Great website, Kass.  If I wasn't so lazy I'd do some drawings for you, but I just never make the time.

-- Rory

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

----- Original Message -----

From: Kassidy Rae

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2003 4:33 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] TV site

--A truley fine looking page, Kass.
Have you considared doing one for the movies? --

No I haven't.  It takes a lot of time, plus I still have stuff to do on the tv site.  Mark has the "ape" font, plus a font called "Simian Scrolls" and he's doing some headers for me. I don't suppose anyone has those tv series records transcribed anywhere?  I'd love to put them up, somehow.  Too big to put up as sound files. I could always put up excerpts....

Although I COULD move that miscellaneous not tv related page to just such a movie site.  I don't know... anybody have screen grabs?  How would you put it together, a page for each movie? Quotes? If you guys want to do a lot of the legwork, like writing down quotes and collecting pictures, we could do it.  But hey, Alex is putting together a pota site, right? 

Jeff, as far as my quote for Roddy... I got it from a tape Rory sent me.  Rory, are you out there? Where did that extended Roddy interview come from?

And also Rory,  I watched part of Robinson Crusoe on Mars this weekend before a fight broke out amongst the kids. Then they were yelling for cartoons so we watched that instead.  So I haven't seen much of the movie yet, but it is strange in its oarallels to POTA (so far as I've seen it).  There was even a particular scene that reminded me of one of the POTA scenes.  
I'll get back to you when I've seen the rest of it.

Kass

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

---

> Those book and record sets ("Mountain of the Delphi" and stuff)? Someone
> sent me a CD of them. I could transcribe them for you. - - - Jeff

>
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Kassidy Rae

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2003 4:33 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] TV site

--A truley fine looking page, Kass.
Have you considared doing one for the movies? --

No I haven't.  It takes a lot of time, plus I still have stuff to do on the tv site.  Mark has the "ape" font, plus a font called "Simian Scrolls" and he's doing some headers for me. I don't suppose anyone has those tv series records transcribed anywhere?  I'd love to put them up, somehow.  Too big to put up as sound files. I could always put up excerpts....

Although I COULD move that miscellaneous not tv related page to just such a movie site.  I don't know... anybody have screen grabs?  How would you put it together, a page for each movie? Quotes? If you guys want to do a lot of the legwork, like writing down quotes and collecting pictures, we could do it.  But hey, Alex is putting together a pota site, right? 

Jeff, as far as my quote for Roddy... I got it from a tape Rory sent me.  Rory, are you out there? Where did that extended Roddy interview come from?

And also Rory,  I watched part of Robinson Crusoe on Mars this weekend before a fight broke out amongst the kids. Then they were yelling for cartoons so we watched that instead.  So I haven't seen much of the movie yet, but it is strange in its oarallels to POTA (so far as I've seen it).  There was even a particular scene that reminded me of one of the POTA scenes.  
I'll get back to you when I've seen the rest of it.

Kass

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

---

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kassidy Rae" <valwp@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2003 8:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] TV site


>
> --- veetus@... wrote:
> > Those book and record sets ("Mountain of the Delphi" and stuff)?
Someone
> > sent me a CD of them. I could transcribe them for you. - - - Jeff
>
> Yeah, those four. Are you kidding? Would you really do that? I'd love
love
> LOVE for you to do that. What do I have to do ;)and when can you get it
done?
> Tomorrow? :0
> Kass
> >
> >
>
>

> Jeff, I've got just a few things to say to you...
>
> 1. Thanks a bunch for sendin' along that CONQUEST script!
> 2. I like the lil' picture you drew. Izzat supposed to be Caesar?

> just any ol' chimp?
> 3. How much did it cost ya to photocopy? Shipping & handling? Lemme
> know, and I'll cut ya a check.
>
> And now, a few observations on the CONQUEST screenplay.
>
> In Scene 32, during the Labor demonstration--right before Caesar
> blurts out "LOUSY HUMAN BASTARDS!"--the script mentions "the newly
> arrived gorilla, ALDO, whose TWO HANDLERS are vainly trying to get
> him into the building". John Jakes' novelization also refers to

> ape as "a chained ape whom Caesar recognized. The two handlers

> held the chains that restrained the gorilla Aldo".
>
> First off, both the script and the novelization (which, of course,
> was based on the script) refer to Aldo as a "gorilla", although

> the scene was filmed, "Aldo" (in THIS scene) was obviously a
> chimpanzee: both the chimp makeup AND the green jumpsuit testifying
> to that. The DVD subtitler evidently misheard the name "Aldo"

> by the "two handlers" as "Otto". The script proves, of course, that
> this CHIMP's name was intended to be "Aldo"--evidently, a
> DIFFERENT "Aldo" than the gorilla antagonist of "BATTLE".
>
> Secondly, I'm sorta mystified as to why John Jakes refers to "Aldo"
> as "a chained ape WHOM CAESAR RECOGNIZED". Caesar has only been in
> this unnamed city for a little while, yet, and there's no previous
> mention of Caesar seeing any 'gorilla-messenger-for-the-Governor',
> although Caesar DOES see various gorilla slaves sweeping with

> etc. Jakes never elaborates on HOW Caesar recognized him, where he
> had previously seen him, etc. Curious.
>
> -------------------------------------------------
>
> Another interesting thing that's in the screenplay yet is NOT in
> either the novelization or on-screen, is in scene 21:
>
>
> INT. BOOKSHOP 21
>
> Caesar and Armando enter the shop as Lisa goes up to the counter
> where a bespectacled LADY BOOKSELLER is seated. Standing patiently

> one side and behind her is a male ORANGUTAN.
>
> BOOKSELLER (matter of fact): "Lisa?"
>
> Lisa proffers a red shopping-card (we shall see more of these).
>
> BOOKSELLER (reading it; flatly): "'A YOUNG QUEEN FALLS'.... for

> Riley."
>
> She consults a catalog; indicates a tall bookcase to the Orangutan
> behind her. Extends all five fingers of her left hand; and three
> fingers of her right. We PAN Orangutan shuffling to the case. He
> counts five shelves down from the top, and (erroneously) two titles
> from the left: "THE STORY OF SERVANTS' LIB" by Herbert Semhouse
> and "PORN IS DEAD" by Minnie Sokolsky. He hesitates between the
> latter and "A YOUNG QUEEN FAILS" [sic. "FAILS" is a misspelling in
> Dehn's script: should be "FALLS"]; and picks up "PORN IS DEAD" and
> takes to:
>
> BOOKSELLER (sharply): "No."
>
> Orangutan halts dead in his tracks.
>
> BOOKSELLER: "NO!"
>
> Orangutan cringes helplessly. Bookseller strides irritably to
> bookcase, takes down the right book, slaps it on the counter. Lisa
> picks up the book, turns to go. A look passes between her and

> Lisa likes what she sees. As Lisa moves out of the shop:
>
> BOOKSELLER (to Armando): "Yes?"
>
> etc.
>
> In the actual movie, "Mr. Jolly's" bookshop (with address #172 seen
> on the door) has THESE books on the shelf in question:
>
> 1. "THE COLLECT--" [by] 'WALLACE ...' [full title not seen]
> 2. "A Young..." [THIS, of course, is the book "A Young Queen Falls"]
> 3. "Translations from the CHINESE" by Arthur Waley, ILLUSTRATED BY

> LEROY BALDRIDGE
> 4. "THE GIFTS..." [by ?; full title not seen]
> 5. "...[?]..." [by] 'Glanville' [title not seen]
>
> It's possible that there is a book to the left of the 1st one ["THE
> COLLECT--"], which the left side of the movie screen cuts off. As

> the script, the bookseller woman holds up 5 fingers of one hand to
> indicate the shelf (the RIGHT HAND--changed from the script's "left
> hand"), and 3 fingers of the other hand (her LEFT HAND--also

> from the script's "her right [hand]"), to indicate the 3rd book

> the left.
>
> Interestingly, though, although the book "A YOUNG QUEEN FALLS" is
> indeed mentioned in spoken dialogue AND its title is seen (partly)

> screen, there is neither hide nor hair of the OTHER books mentioned
> in the screenplay: "THE STORY OF SERVANTS' LIB" by Herbert Semhouse
> (which John Jakes' novelization also mentions, the title slightly
> different: "The Story of Servant's Lib"--the apostrophe placed
> differently)... and that OTHER book, which I'd never heard

> before--"PORN IS DEAD" by Minnie Sokolsky.
>
> "PORN IS DEAD"!
>
> In the actual movie, the luckless Orangutan bookshop slave

> picks out "Translations from the CHINESE" and brings it to the

> running the store; but in Paul Dehn's screenplay, the (wrong) book
> that was brought to the desk for Mrs. Riley was "PORN IS DEAD"!
>
> It's a shame that along with the ultra-violence that was edited out
> of the movie to placate the "family" crowd, they also "neglected"

> faithfully include this lil' detail from the script. I guess they
> didn't want to have the word "PORN" appear anywhere in the movie!

> even as the title of a book declaring it to be "DEAD".
>
> I wonder... was Dehn trying to further delineate the "future"
> totalitarian society of 1991 by including these specific titles of
> books? "A YOUNG QUEEN FALLS"... is this book a novel? Is it about a
> literal Queen, as in an Arthurian romance? Or, perhaps, does "young
> queen" refer to a youthful homosexual, since "queen" does have that
> other (slang) meaning...?
>
> "THE STORY OF SERVANTS' LIB"--quite the title for a book in a
> bookshop in a city where the "SERVANTS" in question--the Apes--will
> eventually be "LIB-erated" from bondage by the Ape Moses, Caesar.
>
> And "PORN IS DEAD"--does this suggest that the State has clamped

> on 1st Amendment rights, doing away with the

> sale/etc. of Pornography? Or, is the title meant to evoke the
> phrase "GOD IS DEAD"? Given the colorless garb of the humans of the
> city, it 'seems' that there is a Puritanical bent to Breck's

> Might not Dehn have been suggesting that an anti-porn movement
> throughout the mid-1970s and the 1980s resulted in a bland,
> colorless "no-porn" society?
>
> Recall that in the scene immediately prior to the "bookshop" scene
> (Scene 20), a 'Lady' in an outdoor cafe has a gorilla named Frank
> light up her cigarette, and she says, "Thank you, Frank." [She
> inhales and looks at the cigarette thoughtfully.] "Funny. Now that

> know they won't kill me, I don't enjoy them."
>
> Years ago, I thought that this line of dialogue meant that
> the 'Surgeon General' of this future/1991 U.S.A. had somehow
> (lyingly) declared cigarettes NOT to be dangerous, cancer-causing,
> etc. And the reason this lady "know[s]" that cigarettes "won't

> her is because that's what the State-propaganda has declared

> due to the influence of a 'Tobacco-lobby').
>
> But I eventually came to interpret the line as if this 'future'
> society had developed to the point where the Tobacco companies were
> forced to produce cigarettes WITHOUT nicotine or tar, rendering
> them "safe" for consumers. By enforcing regulations against the
> formerly cancer-causing product's manufacturers, the State was
> further exercising its control over Society. One might imagine that
> similar State-mandated "quality controls" would be forced on Food
> producers, to remove high-cholesterol substances from the available
> foods citizens could purchase either at a supermarket or at a
> restaurant.
>
> I imagine that the 'world' of CONQUEST is one where the "War-on-
> Drugs" is fought with vigor, since governments that criminalize
> possession/use of narcotic substances readily create an underground
> economy whereby Organized Crime steps up to the plate to provide
> the "supply" for the inevitable "demand". And THIS is used to

> the INCREASED POLICE POWERS of the State--which is seen in evidence
> in CONQUEST, with the police dressed in "stormtrooper"-type

>
> Perhaps there's also an "underground" supply of Pornography, too,

> offset the "State-war-on-Pornography" that resulted in the

> of the book "PORN IS DEAD"...
>
> Innnnnnnteresting...
>
> Patrick
>
> P.S. Thanks again, Jeff!

> Who's Robert J. Sawyer?