>
> Aldo was the first ape to destroy their innocence. He broke the "Ape
> shall never kill Ape" taboo, and if Caesar was not around to stop
> him, Aldo would have killed all of the humans and prevented any
> peaceful coexistence. I believe in the first timeline Caesar wasn't
> around to stop him.
>
> the ape aldo killed was ceaser's son cornelius for overhearing his plans to=
> kill ceaser. if ceaser did not exist in the first timeline then cornelius =
> would not have been born. aldo would not need to kill ceaser because he wou=
> ld already be the leader. sure he would be harder on the humans but I am co=
> nfused about the rest.
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Melkor" <melkor@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] (OT) Ah-nuld to rule the planet (maybe)


> >
> > Ah-nuld Schwartzenegger has announced he's running for governor of
Califo=
> > rnia. He led the new POTA for 3 administrations (the Oliver Stone, Chris
Co=
> > lumbus and James Cameron eras). Don't forget (how could you?) that
Heston w=
> > as in politics, too. Mark Wahlberg for president! - - - Jeff
>
>
> To be a politician apparently you don't need any real qualifications
> (experience, ability), all you need are useless qualifications (name
> recognition, money). Which explains why we have lousy politicians.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Melkor" <melkor@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 5:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Digest Number 1696


> >
> > Aldo was the first ape to destroy their innocence. He broke the "Ape
> > shall never kill Ape" taboo, and if Caesar was not around to stop
> > him, Aldo would have killed all of the humans and prevented any
> > peaceful coexistence. I believe in the first timeline Caesar wasn't
> > around to stop him.
> >
> > the ape aldo killed was ceaser's son cornelius for overhearing his plans
to=
> > kill ceaser. if ceaser did not exist in the first timeline then
cornelius =
> > would not have been born. aldo would not need to kill ceaser because he
wou=
> > ld already be the leader. sure he would be harder on the humans but I am
co=
> > nfused about the rest.
> >
>
> In the first timeline Aldo's Original Sin (his original Original Sin) was
that
> as the first leader of the ape culture (Caesar wasn't around) he steered
it
> towards intolerance and violence, codified into dogma centuries later by
the
> Lawgiver. Contrast that with Caesar as the first ape leader, who steered
the
> culture towards peaceful coexistence in BATTLE.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

>
> Some of the others who have filed papers to run for governor in California
> (no joke): "Hustler" publisher Larry Flynt, actor Gary Coleman and comedian
> Gallagher. But Ah-nold will terminate them all. - - - Jeff
>

>
> I have "an overblown opinion" of myself? Just because I use my full
> real name as my Yahoo email address, etc.? If I were to use
> just "Patrick Tilton"--just as you use "Chris Farrell"--would I then
> only be 2/3rds as pretentious? Yeesh. You may have noticed that I
> sign my name, most of the time, as just "Patrick". Wouldn't that be
> 1/3rds the pretention you infer? I suppose that when every single
> elected President repeats his own name (when the Chief Justice
> recites the Oath of Office), it MUST mean that he has an "overblown
> opinion" of himself.

>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------

----- Original Message -----
From: "Melkor" <melkor@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 8:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] (OT) Ah-nuld to rule the planet (maybe)


> >
> > Some of the others who have filed papers to run for governor in
California
> > (no joke): "Hustler" publisher Larry Flynt, actor Gary Coleman and
comedian
> > Gallagher. But Ah-nold will terminate them all. - - - Jeff
> >
>
> So are you going to vote for Gary Coleman?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> From: Haristas@a...
> Subject: Re: Pole-Shifting tectonics...
>
> The nuclear war destroyed a lot more of the earth's ozone layer and

>
> -- Rory
>
> that makes the most sense to me.
>

>
> In the first timeline Aldo's Original Sin (his original Original

>
>
> cornelius only says aldo was the first ape to say no. if U go by

> From: "mlccougar" <mlccougar@a...>
> Subject: Re: Caesar's Tears and Pole-Shifting tectonics...
>
> WRONG... According to this definition, a "jungle" is either what

>
> According to the Merriam-Webster online dictionary, a jungle is:
>
> Main Entry: jun·gle
> Pronunciation: 'j&[ng]-g&l
> Function: noun
> Usage: often attributive
> Etymology: Hindi jangal forest, from Sanskrit jangala desert region
> Date: 1776
> 1 a : an impenetrable thicket or tangled mass of tropical

> b : a tract overgrown with thickets or masses of vegetation
>
>
> thanks. I always thought calling it jungle was wrong. it was a

> Face it, where the savage humans live, etc. fits the second

> >
> > cornelius only says aldo was the first ape to say no. if U go by
> cornelius version of history the ape revolt took place 500 years
> later. it would be a different aldo then the one in BATTLE.
>
> *** You're forgetting one thing: BEFORE Cornelius (and Zira) tell
> Hasslein that "an ape named Aldo spoke a word... 'No'..." some 500
> years after Apes had first been enslaved, Cornelius had told the
> Presidential Commission of Inquiry that he spoke the language of his
> forefathers--which he did not know was called "English"--which had
> been the language of his people "for 2000 years, roughly". When
> Cornelius said that, he was basically telling them that 2000 years
> before the EARTH-TIME date they last saw on the EARTH-TIME
> chronometer (3955), Apes were speaking a language that a Commission
> member refers to as "English". Subtract "2000 years, roughly" from
> 3955 and you find yourself "roughly" in the latter half of the 20th
> Century.
>
> Why, then, would Cornelius and Zira LATER tell Hasslein that humans
> took apes as pets for "two centuries", followed by "three more
> centuries" of enslavement?
>
> I've suggested that at this point Cornelius (and Zira, following his
> lead) is hoping that Hasslein has forgotten about his earlier
> testimony regarding 2000 years of English-speaking Apes; he tells the
> truth about the Pet Plague, the taking of Apes as Pets, the period of
> Ape Slavery, the coming of an ape named Aldo... but he purposely
> misleads Hasslein (and the other interrogators) as to the TIME when
> these events take place, substituting the word "centuries" for the
> REAL word that had been written in those "Secret Scrolls" that had
> been kept hidden from the masses: "years".

>
> Wendy that was a highly articulate outburst.
> I hope you'll write more in the future.
> I promise not to get on your tits about it.
> I'm a kinder, gentler T these days.

----- Original Message -----
From: "libraryape" <Willowape@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2003 5:47 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: What's in a name?


> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "patrickmichaeltilton"
> <patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:
>
> >
> > I have "an overblown opinion" of myself? Just because I use my full
> > real name as my Yahoo email address, etc.? If I were to use
> > just "Patrick Tilton"--just as you use "Chris Farrell"--would I then
> > only be 2/3rds as pretentious? Yeesh. You may have noticed that I
> > sign my name, most of the time, as just "Patrick". Wouldn't that be
> > 1/3rds the pretention you infer? I suppose that when every single
> > elected President repeats his own name (when the Chief Justice
> > recites the Oath of Office), it MUST mean that he has an "overblown
> > opinion" of himself.
>
> I'm not going to get into the details, Patrick but I will say this.
Patrick
> Tilton is a writer's name. I'm glad you used your whole name. It says
> something about you which in my hat are all good rabbits.
>
> I feel the same way about everyone here, but I can't say that I've not
> been hurt or felt rejected or ignored, which by the way, has nothing to
> do with you. Maybe I'm just being emotional. Kassidy knows I can get
> pretty pissed off sometimes for reason no one can really understand.
> But, you know, even though I been bang up in this group( to the point
> my finger shake when I write), I keep coming back. I love POTA too
> much to let my feelings or conerns get in the way.
>
> There are two reasons why I don't post as often as I should, or as much
> as you do: one, I can't write as well as any of you can. My words have
> no power. Second, I don't know half as much anybody here --- so I read,
> and read, and listen and listen. Sometimes I consider myself a
> pretentious person but there is no fallicy in my trying to love people,
> accepting them for what they are; appaulding them when they
> accomplish something. I love this group; I love DG, you, TZero, Kassidy,
> Jeff, Micheal, James, Menluth. Just being able to participate is blessing
> for me, because for the most part, I feel like I'm the only POTA nut
> around. Like you and handful of people, they are correct in saying that
> we need to focus on POTA issues. So I must apologize for pushing this
> further, filling up space for more pressing matters.
>
> I like to add also that if you are writing a POTA novel, then you best
> not let your emotions take over -- for there be no defending or defeat.
> Many professional writers and editors are going to tear down all of your
> hard work (No matter how good it is) for writing what they consider
> Fanfic, which according to them is a lazy way of writing. How do I
> know? Well, I've been the ultimate tribunal of writers and editors my
> friend. I'm now revising Myth into my own universe while I lick my
> wounds on what I though was my thick skin. And you know, the plot of
> the story is far better than the first. The Grammar Deaf Mutant ---
> Wendy F. Kostora
>
>
>
>
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 17:45:50 -0500 (CDT)
> From: Melkor <melkor@...>
> Subject: timeline issues
>
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > *** You're forgetting one thing: BEFORE Cornelius (and Zira) tell=20
> > Hasslein that "an ape named Aldo spoke a word... 'No'..." some 500=20
> > years after Apes had first been enslaved, Cornelius had told the=20
> > Presidential Commission of Inquiry that he spoke the language of his=20
> > forefathers--which he did not know was called "English"--which had=20
> > been the language of his people "for 2000 years, roughly". When=20
> > Cornelius said that, he was basically telling them that 2000 years=20
> > before the EARTH-TIME date they last saw on the EARTH-TIME=20
> > chronometer (3955), Apes were speaking a language that a Commission=20
> > member refers to as "English". Subtract "2000 years, roughly" from=20
> > 3955 and you find yourself "roughly" in the latter half of the 20th=20
> > Century.
> >=20
> > Why, then, would Cornelius and Zira LATER tell Hasslein that humans=20
> > took apes as pets for "two centuries", followed by "three more=20
> > centuries" of enslavement?=20
> >=20
> > I've suggested that at this point Cornelius (and Zira, following his=20
> > lead) is hoping that Hasslein has forgotten about his earlier=20
> > testimony regarding 2000 years of English-speaking Apes; he tells the=20
> > truth about the Pet Plague, the taking of Apes as Pets, the period of=20
> > Ape Slavery, the coming of an ape named Aldo... but he purposely=20
> > misleads Hasslein (and the other interrogators) as to the TIME when=20
> > these events take place, substituting the word "centuries" for the=20
> > REAL word that had been written in those "Secret Scrolls" that had=20
> > been kept hidden from the masses: "years".=20
>
>
> That's a pretty good explanation for why Cornelius says that several
> centures have passed. ESCAPE contradicts itself, but PLANET, BENEATH,
> and the others all point to the 20th century as the ape revolution.
>
>
> why would zira and cornelius lie about the timeframe? why would they tell=
> hasslein the truth about everything? why not lie about everything? why not=
> lie about the name of the first ape that speaks? that ape would be very im=
> portant to their history. wouldnt they want to protect his idendity?=20

> *** You're forgetting one thing: BEFORE Cornelius (and Zira) tell

>
> <<< There is NO PROOF AT ALL that the time-clock in Taylor's ship

> > Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 17:45:50 -0500 (CDT)
> > From: Melkor <melkor@e...>
> > Subject: timeline issues

> *** You're forgetting one thing: BEFORE Cornelius (and Zira) tell

>
> Why, then, would Cornelius and Zira LATER tell Hasslein that humans

> >
> > That's a pretty good explanation for why Cornelius says that

> >
> >
> > why would zira and cornelius lie about the timeframe? why would

>
> Good questions. I don't know. But we do know that Cornelius

> We also know that PLANET and BENEATH points to man's downfall in

> "...our saviour led a remnant of those who survived, in search of

>
> The Lawgiver says that it is "divine will" that ape and human live

> And yet, when Jones activated that device, their ship somehow--after
> having been "time-warped" into the Future (from 8-19-1980 to 7-14-
> 3085, as the TV show's Opening Credits sequence shows)--goes BACK-
> THROUGH-TIME from 7-14-3085 to 3-21-3085, a total of about 115 days
> of EARTH-TIME (the date Virdon & Burke see on their EARTH-TIME
> console is 3-21-3085, the day after Prefect Veska's gorillas trashed
> the interior of the ship, "freezing" that date on the console--we can
> know this, because that SAME DATE is still glowing on the console a
> week later, when Virdon retrieves that magnetic flight recorder disc
> from the cockpit).

> But if Hasslein were to be told that only 5 YEARS would be left,
> rather than 500 years, the panic that would ensue (once the
> prophesied "Pet Plague" happened) would lead to mass hysteria.
> Cornelius' interrogators--once they witnessed the Pet Plague in the
> year 1983, would think--if they believed in Cornelius' altered
> timeframe--that the "Aldo" he spoke of wouldn't emerge into future
> history until around 2483.
>

> > The Lawgiver says that it is "divine will" that ape and human live
> together "forever". That explains God's motivation for sending Caesar
> to erase the timeline in which the Earth was destroyed.
>
> *** Good point. But, What about the Mutants? The "ape and human"
> community that the simian "savior" leads (in a precarious peace) does
> not include the neighboring so-called "mutants"--whom Caesar believes
> are "malformed" and "mad". He believes that the "mutants" do not want
> peace--and proved it by firing on him, Virgil & MacDonald without
> giving them a chance to explain their presence there.
>
> True, Caesar lets the defeated "mutant" army flee back to their dead
> city ("Let them go," he says to Virgil, purposely pushing down the
> barrel of the rifle Virgil was about to fire). But does Caesar ever
> think to open up a dialogue with those people, later on? After the
> death of Kolp (ironically, by Aldo's hand--which might partially
> explain the later elevation of Aldo by "Secret Scroll"-writing
> authors), why didn't Caesar take one of those "mutants" and talk to
> him... offer to barter some of Ape City's food resources (which are
> plentiful) in exchange for some of the City's medical supplies--since
> such supplies just MIGHT have helped to save the life of his son?

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Melkor <melkor@e...> wrote:

***I wonder why there were fewer Orangutans imported?***

<<<< Because in the fictional APES universe, as in our current world,
Orangutans are the fewest in numbers... CONQUEST echoed that fact.>>>

***They probably cost more than the African apes (except in
Australia). But their conservative nature made them less likely to
cause trouble.***

<<< I can't see that (cost) being a reason there were fewer of them,
like I said, the reason they were fewer is numbers of them, not
their "cost"... Anyway, in the original timeline and/or in CONQUEST,
they wouldn't have been "conservative" Apes as we seen in PLANET...
They were animals at the time of enslavement... The Ape Hierarchy was
nowhere close to being developed, nor would have each species have
found it's niche, so to say that were "less likely to cause trouble"
when they were slaves is a bit of a stretch, considering the Orangs
were just "slaving along", as the other two species were...

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2003 8:41 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Bronson "On His Deathbed"

Is this a preview of what will become of Heston?

Bronson "On His Deathbed"
The family and friends of legendary actor Charles Bronson are gathering together after The Dirty Dozen star was given only days to live. Death Wish star Brosnan has been fighting Alzheimer's Disease for the past two years, and suffered organ failure earlier this month. Doctors tending to the 81-year old have told his family to prepare for the worst and say their last goodbyes to the star. A relative tells British tabloid The Sun, "(The Alzheimer's) is heartbreaking. He doesn't know he was an actor, let alone a big star." The Great Escape actor's wife Kim is now making final preparations to bring him home to die as he requested. A friend adds, "Charlie's wife Kim promised him she would honor his wish to let him die with dignity."





Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the .

>
> ***They probably cost more than the African apes (except in
> Australia). But their conservative nature made them less likely to
> cause trouble.***
>
> <<< I can't see that (cost) being a reason there were fewer of them,
> like I said, the reason they were fewer is numbers of them, not
> their "cost"...

> Anyway, in the original timeline and/or in CONQUEST,
> they wouldn't have been "conservative" Apes as we seen in PLANET...
> They were animals at the time of enslavement... The Ape Hierarchy was
> nowhere close to being developed, nor would have each species have
> found it's niche, so to say that were "less likely to cause trouble"
> when they were slaves is a bit of a stretch, considering the Orangs
> were just "slaving along", as the other two species were...

> >In the altered timeline the Lawgiver clearly
> >knew about the existence of the mutants, and in the original timeline he
> >obviously did not, because Zaius didn't know about them. Just another
> >example of how Caesar changed things. Perhaps even some of the children
> >listening to the Lawgiver were mutant children. In the earlier BATTLE
> >script the Lawgiver is also aware that Taylor is coming in the future.
>
>
> but zaius thought taylor was a mutant. that suggests he knew they existed. =

> didn't zaius also say he had been waiting for taylors arrival all his life?

> I don't know. A good friend sent me a copy. It's doubled with

> "The Mephisto Waltz". The packaging is very plain. - - - Jeff

> How do you know Caesar didn't negotiate with the mutants later? At

>
> In a message dated 8/18/03 1:39:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:
>
>
> > Unfortunately, the "nice" Lawgiver of 2670 doesn't know how
> > misanthropic Taylor was/will be. Maybe he wouldn't have so
> > much "hope" for the Future if he knew as much about Taylor's
> > personality as we do.
> >
> > Patrick
> >
> Ever get the sense, Patrick, that you may be the only one in the world that
> cares this much about this obscure POTA crap?
>
> -- Rory

>
> Zaius, in 3955, WANTS to believe that Taylor is nothing more than "a
> mutant" from another jungle beyond the Forbidden Zone... but he
> probably interrogated Landon prior to having the lobotomy performed
> on him--and would've discovered that Landon wasn't the ONLY
> intelligent human he had to worry about; that's why "something's
> bothering him... he's been lurking around the lab" etc., looking for
> more of Landon's companions from that crash-landed spaceship...
>
> And his reaction to that paper airplane should hint that what he was
> awaiting all his life with dread involved a FLYING MACHINE--a
> spaceship with a human in it from the distant high-tech past, a past
> which Zaius had ALWAYS known about.

> from the Unknown the whole Future of our civilization may be yours to
> preserve--or DESTROY. So... think well before you act."
>
> How might those liberal chimps "destroy" the Ape civilization? By
> making peace with the Humans, rather than keeping them subjugated and
> in a state of animality, Zaius probably thinks. By this time, both

> Ursus' "rampage of conquest" is bad news to Zaius in the same way
> that it was insane for the Polish horseback cavalry to think that

>
> Pretty unlikely. When he says "Where is your tribe...". Zaius

>
>
> > from the Unknown the whole Future of our civilization may be

> >
> > How might those liberal chimps "destroy" the Ape civilization? By

>
> Not likely. Zaius is afraid Cornelius will reveal the artifacts

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Melkor <melkor@e...> wrote:
>
> Pretty unlikely. When he says "Where is your tribe...". Zaius
clearly assumes that Taylor is from a TRIBE of humans that have
maintained the power of speech. He says "when there is one mutant
there has to be another, and another...".

He's a "scientist", after all. It's only logical that Taylor wasn't a
random mutation; if he could speak and no other humans could, where
would he have learned any language (let alone that of the apes)??

There's no reason that the term "mutant" would endure in ape language
unless it were preserved for a reason. Even in total isolation,
languages evolve, and words are passed on because they're used (or
preserved in religious or literary texts).

> *** That's a good point. However, one must wonder why, then, Zaius
> (and his ancestors) would have 1.) Kept their own society ISOLATED
> [with religion-based laws preventing citizens from travelling through
> their neighboring "Forbidden Zone" etc.] and 2.) Kept their own
> society BACKWARD, by stifling the advancement of Knowledge.

Who's to say that they deliberately kept their society backward? They're
animals that developed the power of speech due to the plague, radiation,
scientific manipulation, whatever, in a few generations. If you believe
the "full-circle" version of their history, they were led to
agricultural settlement by Caesar, who had a fully modern POV because he
was the evolved descendant of 2000 years of speaking apes, with at least
an average human ability to reason.

Other than a Virgil or two that understands modern science and
technology, the remaining apes are presented as child-like (the chimps
and apes), or instinctively aggressive (gorillas). It's perfectly
rational that they would fear what they don't understand, except to pass
down that a previous civilization caused "death", and ultimately that
those that caused that death should be destroyed if they "breed in large
numbers".

After the first generation, no apes would have any direct experience of
20th century technology or the notion of global civilizations. A couple
of centuries after that, experiencing something only told anecdotally
would eventually lead to human history passing first into legend that 1%
might understand for what it was, and then fade away as irrelevant to
all but historians and religious zealots.

Without context, it might have as much meaning to them as say, the
history of city-states in Stone Age Spain might have had to Christopher
Columbus (that is, to say it's so irrelevant that any reason to remember
it faded away a few centuries after the cities disappeared).

Along with that, the humans in their midst are slowly losing their
intellectual capacity. Led by apes without the human need for constant
change, and with the dislocation and breakdown of technology in the war,
it's plausible that they would regard a large village as a "city", and
their area of settlement as the "world".

Throw in the near-extermination of humanity in a full missile exchange
and an agricultural lifestyle for survival, and there's no reason why
they should be exploring what to them was new continents nor inventing
20th century technology than it would be necessary to pre-Columbian
American Indians, Tuareg nomands, or Australian aborigines.

Besides, in the grand scheme of things, evolving from no spoken language
to language and human-like reasoning is plenty of development for a
couple of thousand years. Who's to say that the apes weren't building
higher culture, but just not at the speed of post-Renaissance Western
Europeans? Maybe it just took 2000 years for them to start to evolve the
need for changing their present at the level of 16th century Europe.


> Zaius WANTS to believe that Taylor is a native-born human from a
> tribe of intelligent humans, sure--I don't doubt that.

I'd say desperate to believe it is more like it, considering that the
alternative he has "always known" is so horrible. Obviously some
evidence survived in their "Secret Scrolls" or archives of what nuclear
war could mean beyond the "Beware the Beast Man" quotation, or Cornelius
never would have learned even the garbled version of their history he
related in ESCAPE.

I don't believe the different origins theory, either. My feeling is that
ape "historians" exaggerated or miscommunicated the length of time it
took them to rebel out of ignorance. The notion of accurate histories as
a standard didn't develop until the Romans, and then it disappeared
until comparatively modern times.

>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Melkor <melkor@e...> wrote:
> >
> > Pretty unlikely. When he says "Where is your tribe...". Zaius
> clearly assumes that Taylor is from a TRIBE of humans that have
> maintained the power of speech. He says "when there is one mutant
> there has to be another, and another...".
>
> *** That's a good point. However, one must wonder why, then, Zaius
> (and his ancestors) would have 1.) Kept their own society ISOLATED
> [with religion-based laws preventing citizens from travelling through

> their neighboring "Forbidden Zone" etc.] and 2.) Kept their own
> society BACKWARD, by stifling the advancement of Knowledge. If Zaius

> Zaius WANTS to believe that Taylor is a native-born human from a
> tribe of intelligent humans, sure--I don't doubt that. If Taylor is
> lying about being from "another planet in another solar system" then
> Zaius hopes his threats of emasculation and lobotomization will
> coerce Taylor to divulge the location of his tribe's women and the
> location where he was nurtured.

> However, here's one catch: Taylor cannot have been from a tribe
> which "maintained" speech/intelligence (as you suggest) if he is
> also "a mutant". Zaius' use of the term "mutant" suggests that he

> > > How might those liberal chimps "destroy" the Ape civilization? By
> making peace with the Humans, rather than keeping them subjugated and
> in a state of animality, Zaius probably thinks. By this time, both
> >
> > Not likely. Zaius is afraid Cornelius will reveal the artifacts
> from his cave. Zaius thinks this would "destroy" the ape culture by
> destroying their religious dogmas.
>
> *** What artifacts? Remember, Zaius had the Cave "sealed"--blown up
> by explosives. Zaius had destroyed the "proof", the Doll, so that it
> could not be used by Cornelius to challenge the dogmas. Cornelius
> might publicly claim that Zaius destroyed his evidence, but that's
> like all those guys who saw UFO stuff during the 1947 Roswell
> incident who say that the government grabbed every shred of evidence
> just to be able to claim that there never WAS any evidence. Cornelius
> would come across as a "flake" to his peers--and only the "lunatic
> fringe" would consider his claims credible.

> In a message dated 8/18/03 5:58:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
>
> > However, one must wonder why, then, Zaius (and his ancestors)

>
> Being surrounded by radioactive desert might even keep YOU

>
> And as far as the society remaining backward, go back and read your

>
> Get it, Patrick?
>
> -- Rory (The only proper study of apes is APES!)

> Here's a picture I thought I'd share with you fellow fans. This is

> I'll probably be sending pictures of some of the other of my POTA

>
> -- Rory

>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
> > Here's a picture I thought I'd share with you fellow fans. This is
> the theatre lobby banner from 1968 for PLANET in, as the pressbook
> says, "brilliant DA-GLO" colors. The geek next to it is me, so now
> you all know what I look like.
> > I'll probably be sending pictures of some of the other of my POTA
> posters in the future.
> >
> > -- Rory
>
> *** For some reason, the pic says "ATTACHMENT (not stored)". So, I
> can't click on it to see what it looks like! Oh, I already know what
> you look like, Rory, since you included a picture of yourself in an
> email to me way back when--but it would be nice to see the lobby
> banner you're referring to. Any idea why the attachment was "not
> stored"? Is it a problem with this site, or perhaps just with my PC?
>
> Patrick
>

> *** For some reason, the pic says "ATTACHMENT (not stored)". So, I
> can't click on it to see what it looks like! Oh, I already know what
> you look like, Rory, since you included a picture of yourself in an
> email to me way back when--but it would be nice to see the lobby
> banner you're referring to. Any idea why the attachment was "not
> stored"? Is it a problem with this site, or perhaps just with my PC?

> "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:
> > *** For some reason, the pic says "ATTACHMENT (not stored)". So,

>
> Yahoo have recently changed their settings with regards to
> attachments. I think people who are subscribed via email get to see
> them, but if you access them via the website it doesn't work, or
> they're stored elsewhere, or something like that.
>
> Alan

> Dehn obviously had an axe to grind regarding the threat of Global

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTWeird0@A... wrote:
> In a message dated 8/18/2003 2:43:39 PM Central Standard Time,
> melkor@e... writes:
>
> > However I bet more people would read Patrick's posts if he split
himself into 10 small pieces.
>
>
>
> Actually that's true. I think I said that a few years ago when
Pat first joined. It's not that I don't enjoy Pat's posts (well, I
used to but now I'll change because he's the only one on my side
now), but I usually save the longer ones to read later when I have
more time to masturbate. Then, later, when I'm cleaning off my
penis, I just glance over him quickly. I'm lucky if I even pick up
on the topic befre I delete them. Unless he's slagging Mike and
James. I read those nice and slow to savor them like a good cup o'
jism. Aaaahhhhh...I'm such a freak!

> Yeah, you 2 make a lovely couple, T and P. Ha ha ha ha!
>
> Been kicked out of any chat groups recently LordTWeird0 (I'm sure

>
> How many does that mske it now?
>
> How 'bout you Patrick? How many chat groups you been kicked out

>
> By the way, I was the first to suggest Patrick trim and portion his

>
> Anyway, I think you 2 are running out of allies over here. Lots of

>
> Michael
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTWeird0@A... wrote:
> > In a message dated 8/18/2003 2:43:39 PM Central Standard Time,
> > melkor@e... writes:
> >
> > > However I bet more people would read Patrick's posts if he

> >
> > Actually that's true. I think I said that a few years ago when

> "How many chat groups have I been kicked out of?" you ask. Well, so
> far, NONE. Mez hasn't sunk to James'-and-your level.

>
> I never know when to shut up, you say? Leave it to a control-freak
> with a fetish for "rules" who excuses dictatorial censorship in his
> own group to say such a thing. I bet your favorite characters
> in "PLANET" were the bailiff who gagged Taylor and the vet who cut
> out Landon's frontal lobes -- both nice ways to stifle speech you
> don't want to hear, or want OTHERS to hear.

> "How many chat groups have I been kicked out of?" you ask. Well, so
> far, NONE. Mez hasn't sunk to James'-and-your level.
>
> I never know when to shut up, you say? Leave it to a control-freak
> with a fetish for "rules" who excuses dictatorial censorship in his
> own group to say such a thing. I bet your favorite characters
> in "PLANET" were the bailiff who gagged Taylor and the vet who cut
> out Landon's frontal lobes -- both nice ways to stifle speech you
> don't want to hear, or want OTHERS to hear.
>
> "Normal people"? When I get on a roll, I say what I want to say --
> and I back it up with evidence, such as when I quote verbatim from
> past postings and number 'em so that others can verify it. If being
> able to read more than one short f***ing sentence without suffering
> from the MTV Generation's low-attention span makes one "abnormal"
> then to hell with normality!
>
> I thought your DG was supposed to be for "mature POTA fans" (as

> had the gall to say, over at Mez's group) who didn't want to suffer
> any "flame"-wars. Reread your worthless post that I'm responding

> Mike, and you'll see that it is NOTHING but one long petty fucking
> flame. You can't post this sort of shit on the DG without looking
> like a hypocrite to the DG's membership rolls -- but you can't help
> yourself. You HAVE to spew your bullshit somewhere... and THIS site
> doesn't have any dictatorial censorial "rules" to worry about. This
> site allows you to have your worthless say. It isn't enough that

> & James have your own "successful" group -- you gotta piss in a

> where your unsuspecting members aren't swimming at the moment.
>
> Enjoy your "success", you hypocrite.
>
> Patrick
>
> P.S. Savor THAT one, T!
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <Michael.Whitty@d...>
> wrote:
> > Yeah, you 2 make a lovely couple, T and P. Ha ha ha ha!
> >
> > Been kicked out of any chat groups recently LordTWeird0 (I'm sure
> you would be here bitching about the moderator if you had been

> out of a group because it certainly wouldn't be through YOUR

> >
> > How many does that mske it now?
> >
> > How 'bout you Patrick? How many chat groups you been kicked out
> of? You never know when to shut up do you?
> >
> > By the way, I was the first to suggest Patrick trim and portion

> posts so that normal people might cope with them, and his reaction
> was not too friendly! I think he prefers to be difficult to
> comprehend. Makes him appear intellectual and bores the reader to
> death so he always thinks he wins his "arguments".
> >
> > Anyway, I think you 2 are running out of allies over here. Lots

> happy people are posting over at the POTADG now, and it seems like
> mostly 2 hate filled voices over here. But you've got guns,

> you? Don't shoot yourselves playing with them!!!
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTWeird0@A... wrote:
> > > In a message dated 8/18/2003 2:43:39 PM Central Standard Time,
> > > melkor@e... writes:
> > >
> > > > However I bet more people would read Patrick's posts if he
> split himself into 10 small pieces.
> > >
> > > Actually that's true. I think I said that a few years ago when
> Pat first joined. It's not that I don't enjoy Pat's posts (well, I
> used to but now I'll change because he's the only one on my side
> now), but I usually save the longer ones to read later when I have
> more time to masturbate. Then, later, when I'm cleaning off my

> I just glance over him quickly. I'm lucky if I even pick up on the
> topic befre I delete them. Unless he's slagging Mike and James. I
> read those nice and slow to savor them like a good cup o' jism.
> Aaaahhhhh...I'm such a freak!

> "Normal people"? When I get on a roll, I say what I want to say --
> and I back it up with evidence, such as when I quote verbatim from
> past postings and number 'em so that others can verify it. If being
> able to read more than one short f***ing sentence without suffering
> from the MTV Generation's low-attention span makes one "abnormal"
> then to hell with normality!

> had the gall to say, over at Mez's group) who didn't want to suffer
> any "flame"-wars.

>

>
> Enjoy your "success", you hypocrite.
>
> Patrick
>
> P.S. Savor THAT one, T!
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <Michael.Whitty@d...>
> wrote:
> > Yeah, you 2 make a lovely couple, T and P. Ha ha ha ha!
> >
> > Been kicked out of any chat groups recently LordTWeird0 (I'm sure
> you would be here bitching about the moderator if you had been

> out of a group because it certainly wouldn't be through YOUR

> >
> > How many does that mske it now?
> >
> > How 'bout you Patrick? How many chat groups you been kicked out
> of? You never know when to shut up do you?
> >
> > By the way, I was the first to suggest Patrick trim and portion

> posts so that normal people might cope with them, and his reaction
> was not too friendly! I think he prefers to be difficult to
> comprehend. Makes him appear intellectual and bores the reader to
> death so he always thinks he wins his "arguments".
> >
> > Anyway, I think you 2 are running out of allies over here. Lots

> happy people are posting over at the POTADG now, and it seems like
> mostly 2 hate filled voices over here. But you've got guns,

> you? Don't shoot yourselves playing with them!!!
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTWeird0@A... wrote:
> > > In a message dated 8/18/2003 2:43:39 PM Central Standard Time,
> > > melkor@e... writes:
> > >
> > > > However I bet more people would read Patrick's posts if he
> split himself into 10 small pieces.
> > >
> > > Actually that's true. I think I said that a few years ago when
> Pat first joined. It's not that I don't enjoy Pat's posts (well, I
> used to but now I'll change because he's the only one on my side
> now), but I usually save the longer ones to read later when I have
> more time to masturbate. Then, later, when I'm cleaning off my

> I just glance over him quickly. I'm lucky if I even pick up on the
> topic befre I delete them. Unless he's slagging Mike and James. I
> read those nice and slow to savor them like a good cup o' jism.
> Aaaahhhhh...I'm such a freak!

> "How many chat groups have I been kicked out of?" you ask. Well, so
> far, NONE. Mez hasn't sunk to James'-and-your level.
>
> I never know when to shut up, you say? Leave it to a control-freak
> with a fetish for "rules" who excuses dictatorial censorship in his
> own group to say such a thing. I bet your favorite characters
> in "PLANET" were the bailiff who gagged Taylor and the vet who cut
> out Landon's frontal lobes -- both nice ways to stifle speech you
> don't want to hear, or want OTHERS to hear.
>
> "Normal people"? When I get on a roll, I say what I want to say --
> and I back it up with evidence, such as when I quote verbatim from
> past postings and number 'em so that others can verify it. If being
> able to read more than one short f***ing sentence without suffering
> from the MTV Generation's low-attention span makes one "abnormal"
> then to hell with normality!
>
> I thought your DG was supposed to be for "mature POTA fans" (as

> had the gall to say, over at Mez's group) who didn't want to suffer
> any "flame"-wars. Reread your worthless post that I'm responding

> Mike, and you'll see that it is NOTHING but one long petty fucking
> flame. You can't post this sort of shit on the DG without looking
> like a hypocrite to the DG's membership rolls -- but you can't help
> yourself. You HAVE to spew your bullshit somewhere... and THIS site
> doesn't have any dictatorial censorial "rules" to worry about. This
> site allows you to have your worthless say. It isn't enough that

> & James have your own "successful" group -- you gotta piss in a

> where your unsuspecting members aren't swimming at the moment.
>
> Enjoy your "success", you hypocrite.
>
> Patrick
>
> P.S. Savor THAT one, T!
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <Michael.Whitty@d...>
> wrote:
> > Yeah, you 2 make a lovely couple, T and P. Ha ha ha ha!
> >
> > Been kicked out of any chat groups recently LordTWeird0 (I'm sure
> you would be here bitching about the moderator if you had been

> out of a group because it certainly wouldn't be through YOUR

> >
> > How many does that mske it now?
> >
> > How 'bout you Patrick? How many chat groups you been kicked out
> of? You never know when to shut up do you?
> >
> > By the way, I was the first to suggest Patrick trim and portion

> posts so that normal people might cope with them, and his reaction
> was not too friendly! I think he prefers to be difficult to
> comprehend. Makes him appear intellectual and bores the reader to
> death so he always thinks he wins his "arguments".
> >
> > Anyway, I think you 2 are running out of allies over here. Lots

> happy people are posting over at the POTADG now, and it seems like
> mostly 2 hate filled voices over here. But you've got guns,

> you? Don't shoot yourselves playing with them!!!
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTWeird0@A... wrote:
> > > In a message dated 8/18/2003 2:43:39 PM Central Standard Time,
> > > melkor@e... writes:
> > >
> > > > However I bet more people would read Patrick's posts if he
> split himself into 10 small pieces.
> > >
> > > Actually that's true. I think I said that a few years ago when
> Pat first joined. It's not that I don't enjoy Pat's posts (well, I
> used to but now I'll change because he's the only one on my side
> now), but I usually save the longer ones to read later when I have
> more time to masturbate. Then, later, when I'm cleaning off my

> I just glance over him quickly. I'm lucky if I even pick up on the
> topic befre I delete them. Unless he's slagging Mike and James. I
> read those nice and slow to savor them like a good cup o' jism.
> Aaaahhhhh...I'm such a freak!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Whitty" <Michael.Whitty@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 5:54 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Patrick Tells Lies


> Never banned from a group?
>
> What was the group you were in before you joined THIS group?
>
> The moderator there mentioned that you were asked to leave their
> group MANY times, you big LIAR you!!!
>
>
>
> -- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "patrickmichaeltilton"
> <patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:
> > "How many chat groups have I been kicked out of?" you ask. Well, so
> > far, NONE. Mez hasn't sunk to James'-and-your level.
> >
> > I never know when to shut up, you say? Leave it to a control-freak
> > with a fetish for "rules" who excuses dictatorial censorship in his
> > own group to say such a thing. I bet your favorite characters
> > in "PLANET" were the bailiff who gagged Taylor and the vet who cut
> > out Landon's frontal lobes -- both nice ways to stifle speech you
> > don't want to hear, or want OTHERS to hear.
> >
> > "Normal people"? When I get on a roll, I say what I want to say --
> > and I back it up with evidence, such as when I quote verbatim from
> > past postings and number 'em so that others can verify it. If being
> > able to read more than one short f***ing sentence without suffering
> > from the MTV Generation's low-attention span makes one "abnormal"
> > then to hell with normality!
> >
> > I thought your DG was supposed to be for "mature POTA fans" (as
> James
> > had the gall to say, over at Mez's group) who didn't want to suffer
> > any "flame"-wars. Reread your worthless post that I'm responding
> to,
> > Mike, and you'll see that it is NOTHING but one long petty fucking
> > flame. You can't post this sort of shit on the DG without looking
> > like a hypocrite to the DG's membership rolls -- but you can't help
> > yourself. You HAVE to spew your bullshit somewhere... and THIS site
> > doesn't have any dictatorial censorial "rules" to worry about. This
> > site allows you to have your worthless say. It isn't enough that
> you
> > & James have your own "successful" group -- you gotta piss in a
> pool
> > where your unsuspecting members aren't swimming at the moment.
> >
> > Enjoy your "success", you hypocrite.
> >
> > Patrick
> >
> > P.S. Savor THAT one, T!
> >
> > --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <Michael.Whitty@d...>
> > wrote:
> > > Yeah, you 2 make a lovely couple, T and P. Ha ha ha ha!
> > >
> > > Been kicked out of any chat groups recently LordTWeird0 (I'm sure
> > you would be here bitching about the moderator if you had been
> kicked
> > out of a group because it certainly wouldn't be through YOUR
> doing!)?
> > >
> > > How many does that mske it now?
> > >
> > > How 'bout you Patrick? How many chat groups you been kicked out
> > of? You never know when to shut up do you?
> > >
> > > By the way, I was the first to suggest Patrick trim and portion
> his
> > posts so that normal people might cope with them, and his reaction
> > was not too friendly! I think he prefers to be difficult to
> > comprehend. Makes him appear intellectual and bores the reader to
> > death so he always thinks he wins his "arguments".
> > >
> > > Anyway, I think you 2 are running out of allies over here. Lots
> of
> > happy people are posting over at the POTADG now, and it seems like
> > mostly 2 hate filled voices over here. But you've got guns,
> haven't
> > you? Don't shoot yourselves playing with them!!!
> > >
> > > Michael
> > >
> > > --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTWeird0@A... wrote:
> > > > In a message dated 8/18/2003 2:43:39 PM Central Standard Time,
> > > > melkor@e... writes:
> > > >
> > > > > However I bet more people would read Patrick's posts if he
> > split himself into 10 small pieces.
> > > >
> > > > Actually that's true. I think I said that a few years ago when
> > Pat first joined. It's not that I don't enjoy Pat's posts (well, I
> > used to but now I'll change because he's the only one on my side
> > now), but I usually save the longer ones to read later when I have
> > more time to masturbate. Then, later, when I'm cleaning off my
> penis,
> > I just glance over him quickly. I'm lucky if I even pick up on the
> > topic befre I delete them. Unless he's slagging Mike and James. I
> > read those nice and slow to savor them like a good cup o' jism.
> > Aaaahhhhh...I'm such a freak!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "peterasta" <tammai@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 6:20 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Searching Cornelius Medicom version 2


> Hi!
>
> I'm searching the Medicom Cornelius figure version 2 (all in black).
> I know it's rare, but it must be somewhere...
>
> Where could I find it?
> I've been trying in ebay, but no way. I always find the normal
> version (green suit).
>
> Thank you for your help.
>
> Peter
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>