Oh, this is a REAL man honey.

Would you like to meet up and I'll show you mine, you show me yours?

I'm thinking you can't afford to be choosey how you come off.

Yo8u sound like you have stiff sheets.

Hon65


--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "patrickmichaeltilton"
<patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:

> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> > In a message dated 12/26/2003 12:08:25 AM Central Standard Time,
> > honorius65@y... writes:
> > At least Whitty makes a point and he stands alone amongst a pack

of

> > wolves who feed on each other's nastiness. I just wish he would
> > learn to keep his dignity by shutting up when these other idiots
> > rant.
> >
> > Honorius
> >
> > I know Whitty when I see him.
> > And this is him.
>
> *** That's EXACTLY what I thought when I started readin' Mr.
> Honorius65's message. Who was it (Cougar?) who tracked down James'
> server as the one where those forged e-mails were coming from?
> Howzabout doing the same thing with Honorius65's server? I suspect
> that Mike & Hon65 both emanate from the same cyber-orifice, like a
> pair of sour farts. How much "dignity" can Mike have if he feels

the

> need all of a sudden to pretend he's somebody else, like a goofy
> comic book vigilante -- all for the sake of inventing a

doppelganger

> to boost his own ranks of supporters... with himself!? C'mon,

Hon65,

> be like those fleshy-headed mutants and peel off the mask --

reveal

> your inmost self unto your foes!
>
> Patrick

What a stupid question!

You forgot to mention this Witty guy and with all these posts about
him in your group he IS the planet of the apes.

Later sweets

Hon65

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "patrickmichaeltilton"
<patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:

> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, <veetus@e...> wrote:
> > Alright! Let's cause more trouble. I have here a Kubrick jail
> wagon with Gen. Urko. It's cute! Even if you have one you can

always

> use another. This is the prize that will be awarded to...
> > Whoever comes up with the most interesting POTA question by
> January 1st (California time). People complain that POTA has been
> talked out. Let's be proved wrong about that. - - - Jeff
>
> *** Okay, Jeff, here's the first POTA question from me: Would the
> citizens of the fascist U.S.A. portrayed in "CONQUEST OF THE

PLANET

> OF THE APES" view the carnage in Breck's city with the same horror
> and outrage that most of us felt when we saw the TV footage on

9/11

> as it was happening? Wouldn't the average American, upon seeing
> footage (if it were being broadcast) of Caesar ranting about "the

day

> of the writing in the sky... Man's downfall... the birth of the
> planet of the apes!... our OWN religion, our own DYNASTY!..."

(etc),

> react by suggesting that the entire U.S. armed forces go over to
> Breck's burning city and slaughter all those uppity apes? Wouldn't

it

> be likely that most of the humans watching Apes slaughter Humans

on

> TV would tend to side with the humans, despite the legitimate
> complaints of Caesar regarding Slavery and the inhumanity of the
> people living off the labor and degradation of the Apes?
>
> I don't think this kind of question really could have been asked
> prior to 9/11, an event which has been too recent to have

engendered

> enough severe scrutiny. The Al-Qaeda jerks who committed those
> atrocities do so because in their minds THEY are the heroes

fighting

> against America -- which they view as an "evil" society that helps
> the hated Jews "occupy" allegedly Muslim land ("Palestine" rather
> than "Israel") and defiles the "holy" ground of Saudi Arabia, with
> its "holy" sites (Mecca & Medina). Caesar's promise/warning that

the

> Apes will found their own Religion, in particular, suggests that
> there is a "jihad" aspect to his fight against the Brecks of the
> world -- a world he knows AND HOPES will destroy itself.
>
> Isn't it likely that in the aftermath of Caesar's violent victory
> over Breck's security forces, the Humans watching the gory footage

on

> their TV sets all across the country -- and the world -- would

wish

> to kill off every ape in the world, now that they've proven
> themselves to be a "threat" to humanity? Wouldn't the humans

justify

> slaughtering their enslaved apes by invoking self-preservation,

and

> pointing their fingers at the violence that MacDonald lamented in
> Caesar's presence?
>
> How's THAT for a POTA question & topic of discussion?
>
> Patrick

What's a DG?

Hon65

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> In a message dated 12/26/2003 1:00:04 PM Central Standard Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
> How much "dignity" can Mike have if he feels the
> need all of a sudden to pretend he's somebody else, like a goofy
> comic book vigilante -- all for the sake of inventing a
doppelganger
> to boost his own ranks of supporters... with himself!? C'mon,
Hon65,
> be like those fleshy-headed mutants and peel off the mask --
reveal
> your inmost self unto your foes!
>
> Patrick
>
>
> Really. No one can kick you off, here. What's the point? I
think he just
> wanted support. Because there isn't anyone here on his side. So
how can he
> feel right? But back to Apes. If no one has a topic how about
snagging one off
> DG, if they have one.

.html <.html

don unstan you big wors. america funny place. you eat flied lice i
like it. i look for american man to frenship.



--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "patrickmichaeltilton"
<patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:

> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, <veetus@e...> wrote:
> > Alright! Let's cause more trouble. I have here a Kubrick jail
> wagon with Gen. Urko. It's cute! Even if you have one you can

always

> use another. This is the prize that will be awarded to...
> > Whoever comes up with the most interesting POTA question by
> January 1st (California time). People complain that POTA has been
> talked out. Let's be proved wrong about that. - - - Jeff
>
> *** Okay, Jeff, here's the first POTA question from me: Would the
> citizens of the fascist U.S.A. portrayed in "CONQUEST OF THE

PLANET

> OF THE APES" view the carnage in Breck's city with the same horror
> and outrage that most of us felt when we saw the TV footage on

9/11

> as it was happening? Wouldn't the average American, upon seeing
> footage (if it were being broadcast) of Caesar ranting about "the

day

> of the writing in the sky... Man's downfall... the birth of the
> planet of the apes!... our OWN religion, our own DYNASTY!..."

(etc),

> react by suggesting that the entire U.S. armed forces go over to
> Breck's burning city and slaughter all those uppity apes? Wouldn't

it

> be likely that most of the humans watching Apes slaughter Humans

on

> TV would tend to side with the humans, despite the legitimate
> complaints of Caesar regarding Slavery and the inhumanity of the
> people living off the labor and degradation of the Apes?
>
> I don't think this kind of question really could have been asked
> prior to 9/11, an event which has been too recent to have

engendered

> enough severe scrutiny. The Al-Qaeda jerks who committed those
> atrocities do so because in their minds THEY are the heroes

fighting

> against America -- which they view as an "evil" society that helps
> the hated Jews "occupy" allegedly Muslim land ("Palestine" rather
> than "Israel") and defiles the "holy" ground of Saudi Arabia, with
> its "holy" sites (Mecca & Medina). Caesar's promise/warning that

the

> Apes will found their own Religion, in particular, suggests that
> there is a "jihad" aspect to his fight against the Brecks of the
> world -- a world he knows AND HOPES will destroy itself.
>
> Isn't it likely that in the aftermath of Caesar's violent victory
> over Breck's security forces, the Humans watching the gory footage

on

> their TV sets all across the country -- and the world -- would

wish

> to kill off every ape in the world, now that they've proven
> themselves to be a "threat" to humanity? Wouldn't the humans

justify

> slaughtering their enslaved apes by invoking self-preservation,

and

> pointing their fingers at the violence that MacDonald lamented in
> Caesar's presence?
>
> How's THAT for a POTA question & topic of discussion?
>
> Patrick

.html <.html

Oh boo hoo. Maybe I;m his lover. Anyway, is there something wrong
with taking on other identities in groups? I'm not your Witty man
toots, but I sure do take on other identities sometimes and you guys
LOVE talking about Witty. Didnt I read recently that you disguise
yourself Mr T? I get this image of a large gay black man when I
think of you.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> In a message dated 12/26/2003 2:37:59 PM Central Standard Time,
> honorius65@y... writes:
> this Witty guy and with all these posts about
> him in your group he IS the planet of the apes.
>
> I think that removes any doubt.
> It's Mike.

No it isn't honey, that's me Hon65.

I love Asian culture, how bout you toots?

I want to run my tongue all over your body.

Is that OK if I pretend I am asian lady? You love it.

XXOOHon65


-- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:

> In a message dated 12/26/2003 2:48:00 PM Central Standard Time,
> asianlaydee2000@y... writes:
> don unstan you big wors. america funny place. you eat flied lice

i

> like it. i look for american man to frenship.
>
> Yeah, that's him too.

.html.htmlIn a message dated 12/26/03 2:18:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

Wouldn't the average American, upon seeing
footage (if it were being broadcast) of Caesar ranting about "the day
of the writing in the sky... Man's downfall... the birth of the
planet of the apes!... our OWN religion, our own DYNASTY!..." (etc),
react by suggesting that the entire U.S. armed forces go over to
Breck's burning city and slaughter all those uppity apes?

I remember an ABC Nightline one time that examined Hollywood visions of the future, and when they showed a clip from CONQUEST they said that the apes would have a league of lawyers getting them their civil rights.

-- Rory<.html <.html

.html.htmlIn a message dated 12/26/03 3:35:55 PM Eastern Standard Time, honorius65@... writes:

Oh, this is a REAL man honey.

Get out of this POTA group, you HOMOsapian!

-- Rory<.html <.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, December 26, 2003 12:42 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Uh oh! New contest

In a message dated 12/26/2003 2:37:59 PM Central Standard Time, honorius65@... writes:

this Witty guy and with all these posts about
him in your group he IS the planet of the apes.

 

I think that removes any doubt.

It's Mike.

 

 

 

---

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• To visit your group on the web, go to:
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/
   
• To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  pota-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
   
• .

<.html

Who's this? James? - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "asianlaydee2000" <asianlaydee2000@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, December 26, 2003 12:45 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Uh oh! New contest


> don unstan you big wors. america funny place. you eat flied lice i
> like it. i look for american man to frenship.
>
>
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "patrickmichaeltilton"
> <patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:
> > --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, <veetus@e...> wrote:
> > > Alright! Let's cause more trouble. I have here a Kubrick jail
> > wagon with Gen. Urko. It's cute! Even if you have one you can
> always
> > use another. This is the prize that will be awarded to...
> > > Whoever comes up with the most interesting POTA question by
> > January 1st (California time). People complain that POTA has been
> > talked out. Let's be proved wrong about that. - - - Jeff
> >
> > *** Okay, Jeff, here's the first POTA question from me: Would the
> > citizens of the fascist U.S.A. portrayed in "CONQUEST OF THE
> PLANET
> > OF THE APES" view the carnage in Breck's city with the same horror
> > and outrage that most of us felt when we saw the TV footage on
> 9/11
> > as it was happening? Wouldn't the average American, upon seeing
> > footage (if it were being broadcast) of Caesar ranting about "the
> day
> > of the writing in the sky... Man's downfall... the birth of the
> > planet of the apes!... our OWN religion, our own DYNASTY!..."
> (etc),
> > react by suggesting that the entire U.S. armed forces go over to
> > Breck's burning city and slaughter all those uppity apes? Wouldn't
> it
> > be likely that most of the humans watching Apes slaughter Humans
> on
> > TV would tend to side with the humans, despite the legitimate
> > complaints of Caesar regarding Slavery and the inhumanity of the
> > people living off the labor and degradation of the Apes?
> >
> > I don't think this kind of question really could have been asked
> > prior to 9/11, an event which has been too recent to have
> engendered
> > enough severe scrutiny. The Al-Qaeda jerks who committed those
> > atrocities do so because in their minds THEY are the heroes
> fighting
> > against America -- which they view as an "evil" society that helps
> > the hated Jews "occupy" allegedly Muslim land ("Palestine" rather
> > than "Israel") and defiles the "holy" ground of Saudi Arabia, with
> > its "holy" sites (Mecca & Medina). Caesar's promise/warning that
> the
> > Apes will found their own Religion, in particular, suggests that
> > there is a "jihad" aspect to his fight against the Brecks of the
> > world -- a world he knows AND HOPES will destroy itself.
> >
> > Isn't it likely that in the aftermath of Caesar's violent victory
> > over Breck's security forces, the Humans watching the gory footage
> on
> > their TV sets all across the country -- and the world -- would
> wish
> > to kill off every ape in the world, now that they've proven
> > themselves to be a "threat" to humanity? Wouldn't the humans
> justify
> > slaughtering their enslaved apes by invoking self-preservation,
> and
> > pointing their fingers at the violence that MacDonald lamented in
> > Caesar's presence?
> >
> > How's THAT for a POTA question & topic of discussion?
> >
> > Patrick
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> pota-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>
>

How about this: If you were given the duty of choosing which POTA
storyline that only exists in comic book form at this time to bring
to life in a new animated cartoon series, which would you pick and
why?

Personally, I'd pick the DEMONS OF THE PSYCHODROME arc from the old
black and white MARVELS. Why? It's a good combo of the TV series
(The Fugitive angle- Jason & Alexandar are Kimbles and Brutus is
Gerard) and most people's favourite POTA film, BENEATH (funky, bad
ass mutants!) along with new characters.

Your thoughts?

Dan

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, <veetus@e...> wrote:
> Alright! Let's cause more trouble. I have here a Kubrick jail
wagon with Gen. Urko. It's cute! Even if you have one you can always
use another. This is the prize that will be awarded to...
> Whoever comes up with the most interesting POTA question by
January 1st (California time). People complain that POTA has been
talked out. Let's be proved wrong about that. - - - Jeff

.html I didn't read the comics.<.html

yeh Blutus him hav frucky frucky wit Alexanda an Jasun. i rike to
see that too. yoo kinky boy Dan i rike vat. i fink Dan is reely
Whity.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "erika4pug" <mystic4ever@s...> wrote:
> How about this: If you were given the duty of choosing which POTA
> storyline that only exists in comic book form at this time to
bring
> to life in a new animated cartoon series, which would you pick and
> why?
>
> Personally, I'd pick the DEMONS OF THE PSYCHODROME arc from the
old
> black and white MARVELS. Why? It's a good combo of the TV series
> (The Fugitive angle- Jason & Alexandar are Kimbles and Brutus is
> Gerard) and most people's favourite POTA film, BENEATH (funky, bad
> ass mutants!) along with new characters.
>
> Your thoughts?
>
> Dan
>
>
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, <veetus@e...> wrote:
> > Alright! Let's cause more trouble. I have here a Kubrick jail
> wagon with Gen. Urko. It's cute! Even if you have one you can
always
> use another. This is the prize that will be awarded to...
> > Whoever comes up with the most interesting POTA question by
> January 1st (California time). People complain that POTA has been
> talked out. Let's be proved wrong about that. - - - Jeff

yoo call yousef fan? bruddy iriot. you go by comics iriot.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> I didn't read the comics.

.html <.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2003 4:19 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Uh oh! New contest

In a message dated 12/27/2003 5:15:42 AM Central Standard Time, asianlaydee2000@... writes:

yoo call yousef fan?

Actually, I never did.

You clazy plick!

---

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• To visit your group on the web, go to:
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/
   
• To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  pota-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
   
• .

<.html

yoo lacist!

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> In a message dated 12/27/2003 5:15:42 AM Central Standard Time,
> asianlaydee2000@y... writes:
> yoo call yousef fan?
> Actually, I never did.
> You clazy plick!

Is that you lordtbonesmuggler?

I think so.

Hon65

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, PofTAfan@a... wrote:
> I wish I would have met Ms. Hunter when she was still alive.
I had the pleasure of writing to her while I was in the Air Force
stationed in Texas in 1977. She sent me an autographed photograph
which she signed, which I still have but it was damaged by the post
office so I wrote to her again and sent me a new photo and also a
letter was also enclosed.
> To miss such people as Roddy McDowell, James Gregory and Ms.
Hunter is a loss, but to always remember them in the roles that they
played on the POTA

Hi! Just wanted to let you guys know I'm selling my James Gregory
signed Ursus photo and signed twice on a filmography he sent me.
Cheap opening bid of only $9.95. The auction starts at 5:30pm pacific
time on Sat. Dec. 27th. ebay item number 2213983159. Thanks for
looking!
Andrew

Click here: eBay item 2213983159 (Ends Jan-03-04 17:30:00 PST) - LATE
JAMES GREGORY PLANET OF THE APES SIGNED

.html <.html

.html <.html

Hi there I dont ever have time to read posts but I was emailed to let
me know that people were wondering what happened to me and Ape
Chronicles etc.

So here is a brief update since I havent posted anything yet this
year. If you want to discuss anything with me directly please email
me at HOKNES@... cause I propably will never see or read any
posts here at the POTA group.

I started Ape Chronicles in 1991. Internet started in 1998. I
possibly did more than anyone to keep POTA alive before the internet
happened. But since that time everything can be found easily on the
internet and for free.

I spent over $10,000.00 on new POTA movie products in 2001 trying to
promote the new movie as best I could. Unfortunately the net is cut-
throat and I literally lost my shirt discounting products to clear
them out.

Since that time I have sort of lost interest / had no time / and made
no money with POTA so I have not really done anything with the
website since then. It is sort of sitting in limbo as is the ape
chronicles fanzine.

The plan has always been to eventually get started up again but I
never find the time or priority to get anything new happening.

To top off all my troubles I had someone file a complaint against me
for offering the POTA cartoon series and so I can no longer offer
that show. It is a shame there is no official release.

Yes I continue to sell collectibles on the internet so I am around.
I have done over 15,000 mail order transactions (primarily through
ebay). I run a legit business and I am very hard working.

I look forward to discussing any problems you might have if you email
me directly.

Merry Xmas!

Terry
hoknes@...

.html <.html

You think.....not!!!!

I am not who you think I am!

.html <.html

.html <.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2003 6:34 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] You're kidding right, Haristas?

patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

I know Whitty when I see him.
> And this is him.

*** That's EXACTLY what I thought when I started readin' Mr.
Honorius65's message. Who was it (Cougar?) who tracked down James'
server as the one where those forged e-mails were coming from?
Howzabout doing the same thing with Honorius65's server? I suspect
that Mike & Hon65 both emanate from the same cyber-orifice, like a
pair of sour farts.

 

 

Not a problem, Pat.

Here's the path from honorius...

 

Received: from [66.218.66.96] by n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 26 Dec 2003 20:36:56 -0000
X-Sender: honorius65@...
X-Apparently-To: pota@yahoogroups.com

 

As you can see the yahoo name has an AU indicating that just like Mike it's from Australia.  The other yahoo name he's using is CA, from California.  But that's easy enough to fake.  I once got one by mistake.  It all depends on which server you go through when you register.  The fact that the other one is also a yahoo address too and a gay man just after the Brent contest smacks of Whitty 99.99.99%.  But the real give away is that they side with Whitty.

 

 

 

 

 

---

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<.html

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:

> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
> I know Whitty when I see him.
> > And this is him.
>
> *** That's EXACTLY what I thought when I started readin' Mr.
> Honorius65's message. Who was it (Cougar?) who tracked down James'
> server as the one where those forged e-mails were coming from?
> Howzabout doing the same thing with Honorius65's server? I suspect
> that Mike & Hon65 both emanate from the same cyber-orifice, like a
> pair of sour farts.
>
>
> Not a problem, Pat.
> Here's the path from honorius...
>
> Received: from [66.218.66.96] by n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP;

26 Dec 2003

> 20:36:56 -0000
> X-Sender: honorius65@y...
> X-Apparently-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>
> As you can see the yahoo name has an AU indicating that just like

Mike it's from Australia. The other yahoo name he's using is CA,
from California. But that's easy enough to fake. I once got one by
mistake. It all depends on which server you go through when you
register. The fact that the other one is also a yahoo address too
and a gay man just after the Brent contest smacks of Whitty
99.99.99%. But the real give away is that they side with Whitty.

*** Point, set, and match! I wholeheartedly agree. And it also makes
perfect sense that Mike -- in his zeal to "prove" that Yahoo groups
NEED dictatorial moderators policing content and deciding who stays
in and who doesn't -- tries to prove his point by becoming the very
type of asshole who SHOULD be censored and banned by his own
criteria. And not just ONE asshole, but a whole slew of 'em. And then
he has the gall to imply that WE are the ones who have "destroyed"
this group.
I wonder if all the sheep over at the DG who didn't like this site
when the "flame-wars" were going on have ever thought to check us out
again, just to see how fucked up their moderators are, based on their
tactics used over here?

Patrick

Hey, Terry! Nice of you to drop us a line.

Sorry to hear about you losing your shirt. I think the main problem
is that you counted on Burton's "POTA" being something that a lot of
people would somehow cherish as much as the "classic" POTA stuff,
just because it had the name "PLANET OF THE APES" on it. Yeah, the
movie made more than its money back, but most APES-fans thought it
was lackluster. I paid to see it once in the theater, I bought 4 of
the action figures, the paperback novelization, and I just bought the
hardcover illustrated screenplay at a discount ($3.99 minus my
discount at MEDIA PLAY, down from the original price of $32.95),
since they're NEVER gonna publish the promised "later edition" which
would allegedly include the "surprise" shocker ending. And I bought
the 2-disc DVD, but I've only watched it once so far, and I'd rather
watch "Tomorrow's Tide" again (arguably the least good of the 14
episodes) rather than sit through Burton's "re-imagining".

Incidentally, the guy who has taken over the "International POTA fan-
club" chores is not just a complete asshole -- he's a swollen
hemorrhoid encrusted with dingleberries. If you ever do get the
gumption to review the posts at this website, you'll see what I mean.

I wish you better success in the future with your endeavors, Terry. I
remember that before I found this site to chat POTA with fellow fans
(and, unfortunately, with assholes like Mike Whitty & Co.), the only
POTA stuff around was your "APE CHRONICLES" fanzine and another one
called "APESFAN", which I had had the honor of contributing to, for
its 2nd issue. For a time, you were essentially the only POTA fan
presence out there, like that little plant Dodge found in the
lifeless desert.

And for that, you deserve all the applause we can muster. (picture
the gorillas stomping their approval at Ursus' speech)

Patrick

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "hoknescomics" <hoknes@h...> wrote:
> Hi there I dont ever have time to read posts but I was emailed to
let me know that people were wondering what happened to me and Ape
Chronicles etc.
>
> So here is a brief update since I havent posted anything yet this
year. If you want to discuss anything with me directly please email
me at HOKNES@H... cause I propably will never see or read any posts
here at the POTA group.
>
> I started Ape Chronicles in 1991. Internet started in 1998. I
possibly did more than anyone to keep POTA alive before the internet
happened. But since that time everything can be found easily on the
internet and for free.
>
> I spent over $10,000.00 on new POTA movie products in 2001 trying
to promote the new movie as best I could. Unfortunately the net is
cut-throat and I literally lost my shirt discounting products to
clear them out.
>
> Since that time I have sort of lost interest / had no time / and
made no money with POTA so I have not really done anything with the
website since then. It is sort of sitting in limbo as is the ape
chronicles fanzine.
>
> The plan has always been to eventually get started up again but I
never find the time or priority to get anything new happening.
>
> To top off all my troubles I had someone file a complaint against
me for offering the POTA cartoon series and so I can no longer offer
that show. It is a shame there is no official release.
>
> Yes I continue to sell collectibles on the internet so I am around.
I have done over 15,000 mail order transactions (primarily through
ebay). I run a legit business and I am very hard working.
>
> I look forward to discussing any problems you might have if you
email me directly.
>
> Merry Xmas!
>
> Terry
> hoknes@h...

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From: "greg" <gbharris1@y...>
Date: Fri Dec 26, 2003 11:27 pm
Subject: Re: The Two Groups and Moderation - please read this
everybody.





I agree with the new proposal on the way this should be handled from
now on. James, Michael and Helen...you should all remember that you
can't please all of the people all of the time when you are trying
to do your job as moderators. The interests of the group as a whole
is the main concern. With the new way of handling things, hopefully
these situations can and will be avoided.
Also, I feel that it's partly up to the individuals as members to
think about what we post in the group so hopefully we don't offend
anyone. In the other group I posted a message that I probably
should not have and I apologize if I offended anyone. It was meant
as a joke but I should have thought it through before I posted it.
This is my fault and I take full responsibility for it. The right
to free speech does come into play but we all have to remember that
we as individuals have that God givin right but not everyone wants
to hear it, especially if we know from experience that such topics
or words have been considered offensive or in bad taste.
The moderators are not there to censor anyone or keep people from
having their own opinions and thoughts, but they are there to help
keep the peace in a group of intelligent and talented people such as
this group.

Greg#2

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "James" <JamesA1102@a...> wrote:
> Thanks Jeff. And I also want to apologize at the poor way we
handled
> the situation.
>
> The problem with moderating such a forum is that it is hard to
find
> a middle ground that makes everyone happy. For every person who
> thinks we are being too srict there seems to be another who thinks
> we are being too lenient. Sometimes we don't know there is a
problem
> with a topic until after the fact. Recently a long time member
left
> the group because of a thread they found offensive (luckily we
were
> able to talk that person into coming back). None of the moderators
> had a problem with that particular thread, but we understood the
> person's point. Unfortunately that may have made us a bit
> oversensitive.
>
> When the 'Brent is Gay' thread was originally posted last June,
none
> of the moderators had a problem with. However, some members did
and
> stated as much publically & privately. When it was brought up
> subsequent times objections were made again leading to this post
by
> Michael to defend the topic:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/message/9657
>
> When it came to the announcement of the winner of your contest we
> tried to have our cake and eat it too. Since you had posted the
> result in the other group, and many are members of both groups; we
> thought it would let us off the hook with those here that found
the
> topic offensive while those that were interested in that topic
would
> get the info in the old group. Again, I apolozige for misjudging
the
> situation.
>
> Jeff also makes some good points. If someone makes a post or a
> comment that is offensive to another members. The members should
try
> to work it between the themselves privately before coming to
Helen,
> Michael or me. This doesn't me anyone shouldn't feel free to come
to
> one of the moderators with their concerns. Please do and do so
> before leaving the group so we can try to fix the problem. It is
> very disconcerting for us to get a note from Yahoo informing us
that
> a long-time member has left group when we never knew there were
any
> problems.
>
> In terms of the moderation here I'd like to restate something I
> posted last June on the subject:
>
> >5498 From: James
> >Date: Wed Jun 18, 2003 0:27am
> >Subject: Re: group website, conventions, goob
>
> >I don't think Michael or I ever wanted to censor people in this
> >group. We wanted moderation to prevent the inflamitory posts that
> >were destroying the old group. In some cases, we've had to do
minor
> >edits to at most a handful of posts that had an offensive word or
> >comment. Other than that I would not want to do more.
> >If everyone feels we should be more diligent in our moderation or
> >that additional rules, other than those stated on the Yahoo home
> >page, please feel free to propose it.
>
> And is Jeff also right when he says we should feel free to discuss
> weightier topics in relation to POTA. We are all adults here and
all
> ideas fair game. As long as we do so respectfully without calling
> someone's idea or theory 'stupid' or 'dumb' or other inflammatory
> statement.
>
> Hopefully it is good that we've shaken out any bad vibes in the
> group now. This has been a very successful year for the DG group
and
> maybe we can move into the New Year and make it even better.
>
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, <veetus@e...> wrote:
> > OK, here's my take. A post telling me that my contest was
> offending people
> > and was being moderated would have been good. And in fact I
hadn't
> heard
> > ANYTHING that people were offended (though I probably could've
> guessed). A
> > while back I did a post just in case where I explained that I
> thought it was
> > a valid topic (with explanations why) and with an apology if my
> humor was
> > offensive. No one really commented on it; in fact, the responses
I
> got
> > suggested to me that I was going overboard in worrying about
> offending
> > people.
> > But fine. My "official announcement" was moderated. I just
> wanted to at
> > least announce that the contest was over and I did have a winner
> (Greg
> > Harris), and that I don't put on contests and not finish them.
So
> I sent a
> > second post explaining that, which was also deleted, again
> without comment.
> > So I felt like I was being swept under the rug (Contest? What
> contest?).
> > Moderating a comment is one thing; I've been moderated before
> without
> > complaint. But I felt this contest was something different,
> something the DG
> > chose to run and then bailed out at the last minute (with the
> slight chance
> > that SOMEONE might have wanted to know how it turned out).
> > Anyway, I admit I stirred up a hornet's nest in the "other
> group". And I
> > apologize to Michael Whitty, who became my main target, even
> though he was
> > the one who sided with me in the moderation process. It just
> became a mess
> > over in the "other group", with EVERYONE doing things and saying
> things they
> > shouldn't have. I apologize for my part in it. I don't take full
> > responsibility and feel I was justified in some of it. But I'm
> ready to move
> > on.
> > Michael suggested if there's a problem to talk to a moderator
> before any
> > rash decisions, and that's good advice. I would also suggest if
> someone
> > offends you, you contact that person personally before going to
a
> moderator.
> > Most of these are just misunderstandings, attempts at humor,
etc.
> Humor is
> > subjective, people have different life experiences and outlooks
on
> what's
> > appropriate. You'd be amazed how well people can work things out
> between
> > themselves (er, depending on who the people are). Being
moderated
> is more
> > like getting a traffic ticket, it makes one defensive ("I wasn't
> > speeding!").
> > I've personally missed some of the weightier discussions we
used
> to have
> > when there was "one group". The recent talk on religion brought
> that back
> > It's too bad we can't be more open on topics here (politics,
> religion) than
> > just what's on ebay and when the Rittenhouse Cards are coming
out.
> I thought
> > the "one group" had a nice mix of stuff, now everyone seems to
> walk on egg
> > shells. But I guess there's no going back again.
> > So I hope this post (written on Christmas) ends my part in the
> bad vibes
> > of recent days, and I'll try not to "lose it" next time.
> > Peace, Jeff
> > P.S.: But I refuse to turn in my sense of humor.

As much as I liked MARVEL's "TERROR ON THE PLANET OF THE APES"
series, I thought that their "FUTURE HISTORY CHRONICLES" series was
especially captivating. I liked the idea of the "city-ships" (and Tom
Sutton's artwork--especially that 2-page illustration in issue 12,
pages 10 and 11--really gave the whole series an ambience that was
different enough to be intriguing).

You gotta figure that while Caesar's community in "BATTLE" will go on
to become the same one we see still in North America in "PLANET"
(both the TV show and the 1st movie), due to the same clothing
styles, the same "glyphs", etc., there had to have been other groups
of the "evolved" apes developing into different types of cultures
with different styles of clothing (etc), in an altogether different
setting: the open oceans. After all, the saga IS called "PLANET" of
the apes -- the "FUTURE HISTORY CHRONICLES" stories opened up the
series to other parts of the world long before the "APE CITY" comic
book (set in Europe).

Even though some of the stories were derivative (one of 'em being an
ape-ified version of "20,000 LEAGUES UNDER THE SEA"), Doug Moench was
able to concoct some damn fine stories, letting his imagination go
wild with the POTA scenario, and taking it all beyond the familiar
framework we all knew from the movies and the TV show.

Hell, it would be cool to see a live-action version of that "FHC"
series, rather than just an animated version! Alaric, Starkor, Reena,
and Graymalkyn... man, that was a cool storyline. It's too bad
MARVEL's POTA magazine croaked at issue #29; we never did get to find
out what happened to those characters. It would've been nice if they
could've done an even 30 issues, and given Moench an opportunity to
wrap up the storyline, and give it an appropriate ending.

Patrick

______ ______

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:

> It depends on whether or not they were aware of the prophecy. Did

the power that be, i.e., the government and the media tell the public
about it before the plague? Or did they play guardians of the
terrible secret just like Zaius did with Taylor? Obviously they knew
about Zira and Cornelius. That news was international. But I think
the rest of the story was suppressed. Hassline was dead. Lewis and
Stevie thought everyone else was dead, and it they didn't then they
would have no reason to talk, and Armando certainly didn't. And the
government, at least at the end of the film, felt no obligation to
reveal anything to the public. In fact they may have used DNA in a
breeding program to produce intelligent apes. They didn't look like
primitive apes. I think someone said earlier that the Orangs from
Borneo looked different after going through Ape management. Though I
think that postnatal manipulation is more far fetched. If the public
had know they might have felt more resigned to their fate -- feeling
they were asking for it, by fulfilling the prophecy, and got what
they deserve for tempting providence.
_______

.html <.html

yOO MEAN RIKE ALL the 180 peolpre in DG iriot

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
> I know Whitty when I see him.
> > And this is him.
>
But the real give away is that they side with Whitty.

yoo reery frucked up. yoo need girl


--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "patrickmichaeltilton"
<patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:

> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> > patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
> > I know Whitty when I see him.
> > > And this is him.
> >
> > *** That's EXACTLY what I thought when I started readin' Mr.
> > Honorius65's message. Who was it (Cougar?) who tracked down

James'

> > server as the one where those forged e-mails were coming from?
> > Howzabout doing the same thing with Honorius65's server? I

suspect

> > that Mike & Hon65 both emanate from the same cyber-orifice, like

a

> > pair of sour farts.
> >
> >
> > Not a problem, Pat.
> > Here's the path from honorius...
> >
> > Received: from [66.218.66.96] by n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with

NNFMP;

> 26 Dec 2003
> > 20:36:56 -0000
> > X-Sender: honorius65@y...
> > X-Apparently-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > As you can see the yahoo name has an AU indicating that just

like

> Mike it's from Australia. The other yahoo name he's using is CA,
> from California. But that's easy enough to fake. I once got one

by

> mistake. It all depends on which server you go through when you
> register. The fact that the other one is also a yahoo address too
> and a gay man just after the Brent contest smacks of Whitty
> 99.99.99%. But the real give away is that they side with Whitty.
>
> *** Point, set, and match! I wholeheartedly agree. And it also

makes

> perfect sense that Mike -- in his zeal to "prove" that Yahoo

groups

> NEED dictatorial moderators policing content and deciding who

stays

> in and who doesn't -- tries to prove his point by becoming the

very

> type of asshole who SHOULD be censored and banned by his own
> criteria. And not just ONE asshole, but a whole slew of 'em. And

then

> he has the gall to imply that WE are the ones who have "destroyed"
> this group.
> I wonder if all the sheep over at the DG who didn't like this site
> when the "flame-wars" were going on have ever thought to check us

out

> again, just to see how fucked up their moderators are, based on

their

> tactics used over here?
>
> Patrick

Yoo iriots still talk about Wity?

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "patrickmichaeltilton"
<patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:

> Hey, Terry! Nice of you to drop us a line.
>
> Sorry to hear about you losing your shirt. I think the main

problem

> is that you counted on Burton's "POTA" being something that a lot

of

> people would somehow cherish as much as the "classic" POTA stuff,
> just because it had the name "PLANET OF THE APES" on it. Yeah, the
> movie made more than its money back, but most APES-fans thought it
> was lackluster. I paid to see it once in the theater, I bought 4

of

> the action figures, the paperback novelization, and I just bought

the

> hardcover illustrated screenplay at a discount ($3.99 minus my
> discount at MEDIA PLAY, down from the original price of $32.95),
> since they're NEVER gonna publish the promised "later edition"

which

> would allegedly include the "surprise" shocker ending. And I

bought

> the 2-disc DVD, but I've only watched it once so far, and I'd

rather

> watch "Tomorrow's Tide" again (arguably the least good of the 14
> episodes) rather than sit through Burton's "re-imagining".
>
> Incidentally, the guy who has taken over the "International POTA

fan-

> club" chores is not just a complete asshole -- he's a swollen
> hemorrhoid encrusted with dingleberries. If you ever do get the
> gumption to review the posts at this website, you'll see what I

mean.

>
> I wish you better success in the future with your endeavors,

Terry. I

> remember that before I found this site to chat POTA with fellow

fans

> (and, unfortunately, with assholes like Mike Whitty & Co.), the

only

> POTA stuff around was your "APE CHRONICLES" fanzine and another

one

> called "APESFAN", which I had had the honor of contributing to,

for

> its 2nd issue. For a time, you were essentially the only POTA fan
> presence out there, like that little plant Dodge found in the
> lifeless desert.
>
> And for that, you deserve all the applause we can muster. (picture
> the gorillas stomping their approval at Ursus' speech)
>
> Patrick
>
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "hoknescomics" <hoknes@h...> wrote:
> > Hi there I dont ever have time to read posts but I was emailed

to

> let me know that people were wondering what happened to me and Ape
> Chronicles etc.
> >
> > So here is a brief update since I havent posted anything yet

this

> year. If you want to discuss anything with me directly please

email

> me at HOKNES@H... cause I propably will never see or read any

posts

> here at the POTA group.
> >
> > I started Ape Chronicles in 1991. Internet started in 1998. I
> possibly did more than anyone to keep POTA alive before the

internet

> happened. But since that time everything can be found easily on

the

> internet and for free.
> >
> > I spent over $10,000.00 on new POTA movie products in 2001

trying

> to promote the new movie as best I could. Unfortunately the net is
> cut-throat and I literally lost my shirt discounting products to
> clear them out.
> >
> > Since that time I have sort of lost interest / had no time / and
> made no money with POTA so I have not really done anything with

the

> website since then. It is sort of sitting in limbo as is the ape
> chronicles fanzine.
> >
> > The plan has always been to eventually get started up again but

I

> never find the time or priority to get anything new happening.
> >
> > To top off all my troubles I had someone file a complaint

against

> me for offering the POTA cartoon series and so I can no longer

offer

> that show. It is a shame there is no official release.
> >
> > Yes I continue to sell collectibles on the internet so I am

around.

> I have done over 15,000 mail order transactions (primarily through
> ebay). I run a legit business and I am very hard working.
> >
> > I look forward to discussing any problems you might have if you
> email me directly.
> >
> > Merry Xmas!
> >
> > Terry
> > hoknes@h...

Yoo fawget to say wity.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "patrickmichaeltilton"
<patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:

> As much as I liked MARVEL's "TERROR ON THE PLANET OF THE APES"
> series, I thought that their "FUTURE HISTORY CHRONICLES" series

was

> especially captivating. I liked the idea of the "city-ships" (and

Tom

> Sutton's artwork--especially that 2-page illustration in issue 12,
> pages 10 and 11--really gave the whole series an ambience that was
> different enough to be intriguing).
>
> You gotta figure that while Caesar's community in "BATTLE" will go

on

> to become the same one we see still in North America in "PLANET"
> (both the TV show and the 1st movie), due to the same clothing
> styles, the same "glyphs", etc., there had to have been other

groups

> of the "evolved" apes developing into different types of cultures
> with different styles of clothing (etc), in an altogether

different

> setting: the open oceans. After all, the saga IS called "PLANET"

of

> the apes -- the "FUTURE HISTORY CHRONICLES" stories opened up the
> series to other parts of the world long before the "APE CITY"

comic

> book (set in Europe).
>
> Even though some of the stories were derivative (one of 'em being

an

> ape-ified version of "20,000 LEAGUES UNDER THE SEA"), Doug Moench

was

> able to concoct some damn fine stories, letting his imagination go
> wild with the POTA scenario, and taking it all beyond the familiar
> framework we all knew from the movies and the TV show.
>
> Hell, it would be cool to see a live-action version of that "FHC"
> series, rather than just an animated version! Alaric, Starkor,

Reena,

> and Graymalkyn... man, that was a cool storyline. It's too bad
> MARVEL's POTA magazine croaked at issue #29; we never did get to

find

> out what happened to those characters. It would've been nice if

they

> could've done an even 30 issues, and given Moench an opportunity

to

> wrap up the storyline, and give it an appropriate ending.
>
> Patrick
>
> ______ > ______

Yoo get of topik there no wity.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "patrickmichaeltilton"
<patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:

> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> > It depends on whether or not they were aware of the prophecy.

Did

> the power that be, i.e., the government and the media tell the

public

> about it before the plague? Or did they play guardians of the
> terrible secret just like Zaius did with Taylor? Obviously they

knew

> about Zira and Cornelius. That news was international. But I think
> the rest of the story was suppressed. Hassline was dead. Lewis and
> Stevie thought everyone else was dead, and it they didn't then

they

> would have no reason to talk, and Armando certainly didn't. And

the

> government, at least at the end of the film, felt no obligation to
> reveal anything to the public. In fact they may have used DNA in a
> breeding program to produce intelligent apes. They didn't look

like

> primitive apes. I think someone said earlier that the Orangs from
> Borneo looked different after going through Ape management. Though

I

> think that postnatal manipulation is more far fetched. If the

public

> had know they might have felt more resigned to their fate --

feeling

> they were asking for it, by fulfilling the prophecy, and got what
> they deserve for tempting providence.
> _______

Yah yoo rite this groop great

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
>
> I wonder if all the sheep over at the DG who didn't like this site
> when the "flame-wars" were going on have ever thought to check us
out
> again, just to see how fucked up their moderators are, based on
their
> tactics used over here?
>
> The answer to that is ...no. Over there Mike is, for the most
part, Mr. Nice
> Guy. He talks about how, on that group, they disagree without
insulting each
> other. (He comes over here for that) But then he says his church
is Our
> Lady Of Worthless Miracles. And James is no better. He ask
people to be more
> respectful, but he posted that, Superman can still kick God's ass
in a fight. I
> can't believe that none of the Thin-Skinned Mary's over there
weren't
> offended by these comments. Or perhaps they were, but their posts
were deleted.
> Mike talks about being Christian, but if he follows the golden
rule then I guess
> he wants people to back stab and be two-faced to him. He and Jeff
got into an
> Ass Kissing Contest that would have made you sick. Sorry, Jeff.
You're a
> gentleman I know, but you should have stuck to your guns.
Your 'Is Brent Gay?'
> contest was a legitimate one. The topic was as valid as any
discussed so far.
> But with the extremes they'll go to on the other group to keep
membership up
> so harsh, I can't really blame you. They'd kick you out just to
keep someone
> else from leaving. And without membership they're in charge of
nothing.
> There's no way the people over there would know what it's like
here unless they
> look. If someone invited them back it'd be moderated out. And
even if you
> sent them personal invitations, Mike and James would be over here
like lightning
> doing what Mike is already doing, so as to make them leave again.
If there's
> no reason to leave, there's no reason for DG to exist.

.html <.html

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "patrickmichaeltilton"
<patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:

> I wonder if all the sheep over at the DG who didn't like this site

when the "flame-wars" were going on have ever thought to check us out
again, just to see how fucked up their moderators are, based on their
tactics used over here?

Hey Patrick, I am one of the DG 'sheep' and I regularly check this
site out to see what is going on.
From the lack of anything happening except the continuing flame wars,
it seems to me that our moderators aren't the only ones who are
fucked up.

Neil

.html <.html

.html <.html

.html <.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 9:22 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Our Lady of the Worthless Miracle.

In a message dated 12/28/2003 7:51:38 AM Central Standard Time, potacollective@... writes:

That statement was made by me as a simple joke. I didn't mean to offend anyone by that and quite franky the only ones that were offend were the moderators.

 

Well, Al...Welcome to the Promise Land!

I twas kicked out for jokes.  Of course

Mike was the butt of most of them,

so I guess it was inevitable.  But he

does make a good butt, because he's

a perfect horse's ass.  Your quote was in

Mike's post.  Hard to believe it got cut.

It's certainly no more offensive than James'

Superman remark.  Sorry I got it wrong. 

 

 

 

 

---

Yahoo! Groups Links

• To visit your group on the web, go to:
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/
   
• To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  pota-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
   
• .

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 9:22 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Our Lady of the Worthless Miracle.

In a message dated 12/28/2003 7:51:38 AM Central Standard Time, potacollective@... writes:

That statement was made by me as a simple joke. I didn't mean to offend anyone by that and quite franky the only ones that were offend were the moderators.

 

Well, Al...Welcome to the Promise Land!

I twas kicked out for jokes.  Of course

Mike was the butt of most of them,

so I guess it was inevitable.  But he

does make a good butt, because he's

a perfect horse's ass.  Your quote was in

Mike's post.  Hard to believe it got cut.

It's certainly no more offensive than James'

Superman remark.  Sorry I got it wrong. 

 

 

 

 

---

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• To visit your group on the web, go to:
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----- Original Message -----

From: potacollective

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 5:50 AM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Our Lady of the Worthless Miracle.

"And from my chruch, "Our Lady of the Worthless Miracle" we wish you all
a Merry Christmas."

That statement was made by me as a simple joke. I didn't mean to offend anyone by that and quite franky the only ones that were offend were the moderators. So they decided to edit it and have me say.. "we wish you all a Merry Christmas."

 

They edited me. I still can't believe that.

For a minute there I felt like I was living in a communist country. So I decided to pack my bags and get the hell out of the country, and so I did.

 

Free at last, Free at last! :o)

 

Al

 

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Naw, Whitty just has an acting class and this is one of his exersizes. Do
your Roger Rabbit voice, Michael. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2003 11:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] You're kidding right, Haristas?


> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> > patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
> > I know Whitty when I see him.
> > > And this is him.
> >
> > *** That's EXACTLY what I thought when I started readin' Mr.
> > Honorius65's message. Who was it (Cougar?) who tracked down James'
> > server as the one where those forged e-mails were coming from?
> > Howzabout doing the same thing with Honorius65's server? I suspect
> > that Mike & Hon65 both emanate from the same cyber-orifice, like a
> > pair of sour farts.
> >
> >
> > Not a problem, Pat.
> > Here's the path from honorius...
> >
> > Received: from [66.218.66.96] by n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP;
> 26 Dec 2003
> > 20:36:56 -0000
> > X-Sender: honorius65@y...
> > X-Apparently-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > As you can see the yahoo name has an AU indicating that just like
> Mike it's from Australia. The other yahoo name he's using is CA,
> from California. But that's easy enough to fake. I once got one by
> mistake. It all depends on which server you go through when you
> register. The fact that the other one is also a yahoo address too
> and a gay man just after the Brent contest smacks of Whitty
> 99.99.99%. But the real give away is that they side with Whitty.
>
> *** Point, set, and match! I wholeheartedly agree. And it also makes
> perfect sense that Mike -- in his zeal to "prove" that Yahoo groups
> NEED dictatorial moderators policing content and deciding who stays
> in and who doesn't -- tries to prove his point by becoming the very
> type of asshole who SHOULD be censored and banned by his own
> criteria. And not just ONE asshole, but a whole slew of 'em. And then
> he has the gall to imply that WE are the ones who have "destroyed"
> this group.
> I wonder if all the sheep over at the DG who didn't like this site
> when the "flame-wars" were going on have ever thought to check us out
> again, just to see how fucked up their moderators are, based on their
> tactics used over here?
>
> Patrick
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> pota-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>
>

Yeah, that's a lesson for the studios. You can pull the wool over people's
eyes by using a loved franchise to pump up the opening box office. But you'd
better deliver if you want the real goods (sequels, merch sales).
Manufacturers probably won't be lining up quickly if there's a sequel. But I
got quite a bit of POTA2001 junk real cheap. I loved the designs, so I'm a
happy camper. They still look great in a POTA collection. I got an excellent
Attar bust for $10 (originally cost $70), a cookie jar for $7 originally $50
or so), action figures for $3 each (including the "rare" 2nd series), the
scarecrow statue for $7, on and on. I guess half my "Ape" stuff is 2001
vintage. And most of the rest is Medicoms and Kubricks I got for the cheap
domestic price, ha. I should do a TV show, "Apeshopper". - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 12:12 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: TERRY HOKNES is found !!


> Hey, Terry! Nice of you to drop us a line.
>
> Sorry to hear about you losing your shirt. I think the main problem
> is that you counted on Burton's "POTA" being something that a lot of
> people would somehow cherish as much as the "classic" POTA stuff,
> just because it had the name "PLANET OF THE APES" on it. Yeah, the
> movie made more than its money back, but most APES-fans thought it
> was lackluster. I paid to see it once in the theater, I bought 4 of
> the action figures, the paperback novelization, and I just bought the
> hardcover illustrated screenplay at a discount ($3.99 minus my
> discount at MEDIA PLAY, down from the original price of $32.95),
> since they're NEVER gonna publish the promised "later edition" which
> would allegedly include the "surprise" shocker ending. And I bought
> the 2-disc DVD, but I've only watched it once so far, and I'd rather
> watch "Tomorrow's Tide" again (arguably the least good of the 14
> episodes) rather than sit through Burton's "re-imagining".
>
> Incidentally, the guy who has taken over the "International POTA fan-
> club" chores is not just a complete asshole -- he's a swollen
> hemorrhoid encrusted with dingleberries. If you ever do get the
> gumption to review the posts at this website, you'll see what I mean.
>
> I wish you better success in the future with your endeavors, Terry. I
> remember that before I found this site to chat POTA with fellow fans
> (and, unfortunately, with assholes like Mike Whitty & Co.), the only
> POTA stuff around was your "APE CHRONICLES" fanzine and another one
> called "APESFAN", which I had had the honor of contributing to, for
> its 2nd issue. For a time, you were essentially the only POTA fan
> presence out there, like that little plant Dodge found in the
> lifeless desert.
>
> And for that, you deserve all the applause we can muster. (picture
> the gorillas stomping their approval at Ursus' speech)
>
> Patrick
>
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "hoknescomics" <hoknes@h...> wrote:
> > Hi there I dont ever have time to read posts but I was emailed to
> let me know that people were wondering what happened to me and Ape
> Chronicles etc.
> >
> > So here is a brief update since I havent posted anything yet this
> year. If you want to discuss anything with me directly please email
> me at HOKNES@H... cause I propably will never see or read any posts
> here at the POTA group.
> >
> > I started Ape Chronicles in 1991. Internet started in 1998. I
> possibly did more than anyone to keep POTA alive before the internet
> happened. But since that time everything can be found easily on the
> internet and for free.
> >
> > I spent over $10,000.00 on new POTA movie products in 2001 trying
> to promote the new movie as best I could. Unfortunately the net is
> cut-throat and I literally lost my shirt discounting products to
> clear them out.
> >
> > Since that time I have sort of lost interest / had no time / and
> made no money with POTA so I have not really done anything with the
> website since then. It is sort of sitting in limbo as is the ape
> chronicles fanzine.
> >
> > The plan has always been to eventually get started up again but I
> never find the time or priority to get anything new happening.
> >
> > To top off all my troubles I had someone file a complaint against
> me for offering the POTA cartoon series and so I can no longer offer
> that show. It is a shame there is no official release.
> >
> > Yes I continue to sell collectibles on the internet so I am around.
> I have done over 15,000 mail order transactions (primarily through
> ebay). I run a legit business and I am very hard working.
> >
> > I look forward to discussing any problems you might have if you
> email me directly.
> >
> > Merry Xmas!
> >
> > Terry
> > hoknes@h...
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> pota-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>
>

.html.htmlIn a message dated 12/28/03 12:45:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

I loved the designs, so I'm a
happy camper.

Can't stand the sight of any of it!

-- Rory<.html <.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 12:55 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] You're kidding right, Haristas?

 

I wonder if all the sheep over at the DG who didn't like this site
when the "flame-wars" were going on have ever thought to check us out
again, just to see how fucked up their moderators are, based on their
tactics used over here?

 

The answer to that is ...no.  Over there Mike is, for the most part, Mr. Nice Guy.  He talks about how, on that group, they disagree without insulting each other.  (He comes over here for that)  But then he says his church is Our Lady Of Worthless Miracles.  And James is no better.  He ask people to be more respectful, but he posted that, Superman can still kick God's ass in a fight.  I can't believe that none of the Thin-Skinned Mary's over there weren't offended by these comments.  Or perhaps they were, but their posts were deleted.  Mike talks about being Christian, but if he follows the golden rule then I guess he wants people to back stab and be two-faced to him.  He and Jeff got into an Ass Kissing Contest that would have made you sick.  Sorry, Jeff.  You're a gentleman I know, but you should have stuck to your guns.  Your 'Is Brent Gay?' contest was a legitimate one.  The topic was as valid as any discussed so far.  But with the extremes they'll go to on the other group to keep membership up so harsh, I can't really blame you.  They'd kick you out just to keep someone else from leaving.  And without membership they're in charge of nothing.  There's no way the people over there would know what it's like here unless they look.  If someone invited them back it'd be moderated out.  And even if you sent them personal invitations, Mike and James would be over here like lightning doing what Mike is already doing, so as to make them leave again.  If there's no reason to leave, there's no reason for DG to exist.

 

 

 

 

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----- Original Message -----

From: veetus@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 12:27 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Our Lady of the Worthless Miracle.

  Welcome Alex, to the DG "grudge match" group. Now if someone here would actually talk "Apes" we might have something. - - - Jeff

 

----- Original Message -----

From: potacollective

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 5:50 AM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Our Lady of the Worthless Miracle.

"And from my chruch, "Our Lady of the Worthless Miracle" we wish you all
a Merry Christmas."

That statement was made by me as a simple joke. I didn't mean to offend anyone by that and quite franky the only ones that were offend were the moderators. So they decided to edit it and have me say.. "we wish you all a Merry Christmas."

 

They edited me. I still can't believe that.

For a minute there I felt like I was living in a communist country. So I decided to pack my bags and get the hell out of the country, and so I did.

 

Free at last, Free at last! :o)

 

Al

 

---

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----- Original Message -----

From: potacollective

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 9:59 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Our Lady of the Worthless Miracle.

Well, I can't say I have any beef with Mike or James personally but I just don't agree with editing some ones post. As I told James, what's the point in taking the time to post something is you have to worry whether or not it makes the director's final cut. Gee Wiz!

 

But hey! I'm still a happy camper.

Right, Rory. :o)

 

Al

 

P.S. Oh, sorry Jeff, apes. :o)

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: veetus@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 12:27 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Our Lady of the Worthless Miracle.

  Welcome Alex, to the DG "grudge match" group. Now if someone here would actually talk "Apes" we might have something. - - - Jeff

 

----- Original Message -----

From: potacollective

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 5:50 AM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Our Lady of the Worthless Miracle.

"And from my chruch, "Our Lady of the Worthless Miracle" we wish you all
a Merry Christmas."

That statement was made by me as a simple joke. I didn't mean to offend anyone by that and quite franky the only ones that were offend were the moderators. So they decided to edit it and have me say.. "we wish you all a Merry Christmas."

 

They edited me. I still can't believe that.

For a minute there I felt like I was living in a communist country. So I decided to pack my bags and get the hell out of the country, and so I did.

 

Free at last, Free at last! :o)

 

Al

 

---

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----- Original Message -----

From: veetus@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 1:13 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Our Lady of the Worthless DG

  Well, you have every right to leave, Al, if you feel you're being treated bad. I've never had my post altered (that I know of), just deleted. - - - Jeff

 

----- Original Message -----

From: potacollective

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 9:59 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Our Lady of the Worthless Miracle.

Well, I can't say I have any beef with Mike or James personally but I just don't agree with editing some ones post. As I told James, what's the point in taking the time to post something is you have to worry whether or not it makes the director's final cut. Gee Wiz!

 

But hey! I'm still a happy camper.

Right, Rory. :o)

 

Al

 

P.S. Oh, sorry Jeff, apes. :o)

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: veetus@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 12:27 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Our Lady of the Worthless Miracle.

  Welcome Alex, to the DG "grudge match" group. Now if someone here would actually talk "Apes" we might have something. - - - Jeff

 

----- Original Message -----

From: potacollective

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 5:50 AM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Our Lady of the Worthless Miracle.

"And from my chruch, "Our Lady of the Worthless Miracle" we wish you all
a Merry Christmas."

That statement was made by me as a simple joke. I didn't mean to offend anyone by that and quite franky the only ones that were offend were the moderators. So they decided to edit it and have me say.. "we wish you all a Merry Christmas."

 

They edited me. I still can't believe that.

For a minute there I felt like I was living in a communist country. So I decided to pack my bags and get the hell out of the country, and so I did.

 

Free at last, Free at last! :o)

 

Al

 

---

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.html <.html

Patrick when are you coming out of the closet? Either you eat Man
Meat or you are realy a girl. I already told you silly boys I am
the same person as asianlaydee, you guys are stupid if you missed it:

> From: asianlaydee2000[SMTP:ASIANLAYDEE2000@...]
> Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2003 7:56:53 AM
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Uh oh! New contest
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

No it isn't honey, that's me Hon65.

I love Asian culture, how bout you toots?

I want to run my tongue all over your body.

Is that OK if I pretend I am asian lady? You love it.

XXOOHon65

And those IP adresses! I've told you honorius and Asianlaydee are
the same and proven it and you say they have different IP adresses!
Grame, shit and snatch to your evidence sweetie!

As to my real identity I will tell you as much as the good lord t
does about his. I too have something to hide, like a bone(r) or two
in my cavities!

Toodles!


--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "patrickmichaeltilton"
<patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:

> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> > patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
> > I know Whitty when I see him.
> > > And this is him.
> >
> > *** That's EXACTLY what I thought when I started readin' Mr.
> > Honorius65's message. Who was it (Cougar?) who tracked down

James'

> > server as the one where those forged e-mails were coming from?
> > Howzabout doing the same thing with Honorius65's server? I

suspect

> > that Mike & Hon65 both emanate from the same cyber-orifice, like

a

> > pair of sour farts.
> >
> >
> > Not a problem, Pat.
> > Here's the path from honorius...
> >
> > Received: from [66.218.66.96] by n9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with

NNFMP;

> 26 Dec 2003
> > 20:36:56 -0000
> > X-Sender: honorius65@y...
> > X-Apparently-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > As you can see the yahoo name has an AU indicating that just

like

> Mike it's from Australia. The other yahoo name he's using is CA,
> from California. But that's easy enough to fake. I once got one

by

> mistake. It all depends on which server you go through when you
> register. The fact that the other one is also a yahoo address too
> and a gay man just after the Brent contest smacks of Whitty
> 99.99.99%. But the real give away is that they side with Whitty.
>
> *** Point, set, and match! I wholeheartedly agree. And it also

makes

> perfect sense that Mike -- in his zeal to "prove" that Yahoo

groups

> NEED dictatorial moderators policing content and deciding who

stays

> in and who doesn't -- tries to prove his point by becoming the

very

> type of asshole who SHOULD be censored and banned by his own
> criteria. And not just ONE asshole, but a whole slew of 'em. And

then

> he has the gall to imply that WE are the ones who have "destroyed"
> this group.
> I wonder if all the sheep over at the DG who didn't like this site
> when the "flame-wars" were going on have ever thought to check us

out

> again, just to see how fucked up their moderators are, based on

their

> tactics used over here?
>
> Patrick

Honey, read his post. It says he wont be reading group emails,
email him privately. You retarded?


--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "patrickmichaeltilton"
<patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:

> Hey, Terry! Nice of you to drop us a line.
>
> Sorry to hear about you losing your shirt. I think the main

problem

> is that you counted on Burton's "POTA" being something that a lot

of

> people would somehow cherish as much as the "classic" POTA stuff,
> just because it had the name "PLANET OF THE APES" on it. Yeah, the
> movie made more than its money back, but most APES-fans thought it
> was lackluster. I paid to see it once in the theater, I bought 4

of

> the action figures, the paperback novelization, and I just bought

the

> hardcover illustrated screenplay at a discount ($3.99 minus my
> discount at MEDIA PLAY, down from the original price of $32.95),
> since they're NEVER gonna publish the promised "later edition"

which

> would allegedly include the "surprise" shocker ending. And I

bought

> the 2-disc DVD, but I've only watched it once so far, and I'd

rather

> watch "Tomorrow's Tide" again (arguably the least good of the 14
> episodes) rather than sit through Burton's "re-imagining".
>
> Incidentally, the guy who has taken over the "International POTA

fan-

> club" chores is not just a complete asshole -- he's a swollen
> hemorrhoid encrusted with dingleberries. If you ever do get the
> gumption to review the posts at this website, you'll see what I

mean.

>
> I wish you better success in the future with your endeavors,

Terry. I

> remember that before I found this site to chat POTA with fellow

fans

> (and, unfortunately, with assholes like Mike Whitty & Co.), the

only

> POTA stuff around was your "APE CHRONICLES" fanzine and another

one

> called "APESFAN", which I had had the honor of contributing to,

for

> its 2nd issue. For a time, you were essentially the only POTA fan
> presence out there, like that little plant Dodge found in the
> lifeless desert.
>
> And for that, you deserve all the applause we can muster. (picture
> the gorillas stomping their approval at Ursus' speech)
>
> Patrick
>
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "hoknescomics" <hoknes@h...> wrote:
> > Hi there I dont ever have time to read posts but I was emailed

to

> let me know that people were wondering what happened to me and Ape
> Chronicles etc.
> >
> > So here is a brief update since I havent posted anything yet

this

> year. If you want to discuss anything with me directly please

email

> me at HOKNES@H... cause I propably will never see or read any

posts

> here at the POTA group.
> >
> > I started Ape Chronicles in 1991. Internet started in 1998. I
> possibly did more than anyone to keep POTA alive before the

internet

> happened. But since that time everything can be found easily on

the

> internet and for free.
> >
> > I spent over $10,000.00 on new POTA movie products in 2001

trying

> to promote the new movie as best I could. Unfortunately the net is
> cut-throat and I literally lost my shirt discounting products to
> clear them out.
> >
> > Since that time I have sort of lost interest / had no time / and
> made no money with POTA so I have not really done anything with

the

> website since then. It is sort of sitting in limbo as is the ape
> chronicles fanzine.
> >
> > The plan has always been to eventually get started up again but

I

> never find the time or priority to get anything new happening.
> >
> > To top off all my troubles I had someone file a complaint

against

> me for offering the POTA cartoon series and so I can no longer

offer

> that show. It is a shame there is no official release.
> >
> > Yes I continue to sell collectibles on the internet so I am

around.

> I have done over 15,000 mail order transactions (primarily through
> ebay). I run a legit business and I am very hard working.
> >
> > I look forward to discussing any problems you might have if you
> email me directly.
> >
> > Merry Xmas!
> >
> > Terry
> > hoknes@h...

Greg you are my kinda guy! Are you in a relationship?

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "greg" <gbharris1@y...> wrote:
>
> From: "greg" <gbharris1@y...>
> Date: Fri Dec 26, 2003 11:27 pm
> Subject: Re: The Two Groups and Moderation - please read this
> everybody.
>
>
> I agree with the new proposal on the way this should be handled
from now on. James, Michael and Helen...you should all remember that
you can't please all of the people all of the time when you are
trying to do your job as moderators. The interests of the group as a
whole is the main concern. With the new way of handling things,
hopefully these situations can and will be avoided.
> Also, I feel that it's partly up to the individuals as members to
> think about what we post in the group so hopefully we don't offend
> anyone. In the other group I posted a message that I probably
> should not have and I apologize if I offended anyone. It was meant
> as a joke but I should have thought it through before I posted it.
> This is my fault and I take full responsibility for it. The right
> to free speech does come into play but we all have to remember that
> we as individuals have that God givin right but not everyone wants
> to hear it, especially if we know from experience that such topics
> or words have been considered offensive or in bad taste.
> The moderators are not there to censor anyone or keep people from
> having their own opinions and thoughts, but they are there to help
> keep the peace in a group of intelligent and talented people such
as
> this group.
>
> Greg#2
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "James" <JamesA1102@a...> wrote:
> > Thanks Jeff. And I also want to apologize at the poor way we
> handled
> > the situation.
> >
> > The problem with moderating such a forum is that it is hard to
> find
> > a middle ground that makes everyone happy. For every person who
> > thinks we are being too srict there seems to be another who
thinks
> > we are being too lenient. Sometimes we don't know there is a
> problem
> > with a topic until after the fact. Recently a long time member
> left
> > the group because of a thread they found offensive (luckily we
> were
> > able to talk that person into coming back). None of the
moderators
> > had a problem with that particular thread, but we understood the
> > person's point. Unfortunately that may have made us a bit
> > oversensitive.
> >
> > When the 'Brent is Gay' thread was originally posted last June,
> none
> > of the moderators had a problem with. However, some members did
> and
> > stated as much publically & privately. When it was brought up
> > subsequent times objections were made again leading to this post
> by
> > Michael to defend the topic:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/message/9657
> >
> > When it came to the announcement of the winner of your contest we
> > tried to have our cake and eat it too. Since you had posted the
> > result in the other group, and many are members of both groups;
we
> > thought it would let us off the hook with those here that found
> the
> > topic offensive while those that were interested in that topic
> would
> > get the info in the old group. Again, I apolozige for misjudging
> the
> > situation.
> >
> > Jeff also makes some good points. If someone makes a post or a
> > comment that is offensive to another members. The members should
> try
> > to work it between the themselves privately before coming to
> Helen,
> > Michael or me. This doesn't me anyone shouldn't feel free to come
> to
> > one of the moderators with their concerns. Please do and do so
> > before leaving the group so we can try to fix the problem. It is
> > very disconcerting for us to get a note from Yahoo informing us
> that
> > a long-time member has left group when we never knew there were
> any
> > problems.
> >
> > In terms of the moderation here I'd like to restate something I
> > posted last June on the subject:
> >
> > >5498 From: James
> > >Date: Wed Jun 18, 2003 0:27am
> > >Subject: Re: group website, conventions, goob
> >
> > >I don't think Michael or I ever wanted to censor people in this
> > >group. We wanted moderation to prevent the inflamitory posts
that
> > >were destroying the old group. In some cases, we've had to do
> minor
> > >edits to at most a handful of posts that had an offensive word
or
> > >comment. Other than that I would not want to do more.
> > >If everyone feels we should be more diligent in our moderation
or
> > >that additional rules, other than those stated on the Yahoo home
> > >page, please feel free to propose it.
> >
> > And is Jeff also right when he says we should feel free to
discuss
> > weightier topics in relation to POTA. We are all adults here and
> all
> > ideas fair game. As long as we do so respectfully without calling
> > someone's idea or theory 'stupid' or 'dumb' or other inflammatory
> > statement.
> >
> > Hopefully it is good that we've shaken out any bad vibes in the
> > group now. This has been a very successful year for the DG group
> and
> > maybe we can move into the New Year and make it even better.
> >
> >
> > --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, <veetus@e...> wrote:
> > > OK, here's my take. A post telling me that my contest was
> > offending people
> > > and was being moderated would have been good. And in fact I
> hadn't
> > heard
> > > ANYTHING that people were offended (though I probably could've
> > guessed). A
> > > while back I did a post just in case where I explained that I
> > thought it was
> > > a valid topic (with explanations why) and with an apology if my
> > humor was
> > > offensive. No one really commented on it; in fact, the
responses
> I
> > got
> > > suggested to me that I was going overboard in worrying about
> > offending
> > > people.
> > > But fine. My "official announcement" was moderated. I just
> > wanted to at
> > > least announce that the contest was over and I did have a
winner
> > (Greg
> > > Harris), and that I don't put on contests and not finish them.
> So
> > I sent a
> > > second post explaining that, which was also deleted, again
> > without comment.
> > > So I felt like I was being swept under the rug (Contest? What
> > contest?).
> > > Moderating a comment is one thing; I've been moderated before
> > without
> > > complaint. But I felt this contest was something different,
> > something the DG
> > > chose to run and then bailed out at the last minute (with the
> > slight chance
> > > that SOMEONE might have wanted to know how it turned out).
> > > Anyway, I admit I stirred up a hornet's nest in the "other
> > group". And I
> > > apologize to Michael Whitty, who became my main target, even
> > though he was
> > > the one who sided with me in the moderation process. It just
> > became a mess
> > > over in the "other group", with EVERYONE doing things and
saying
> > things they
> > > shouldn't have. I apologize for my part in it. I don't take
full
> > > responsibility and feel I was justified in some of it. But I'm
> > ready to move
> > > on.
> > > Michael suggested if there's a problem to talk to a moderator
> > before any
> > > rash decisions, and that's good advice. I would also suggest if
> > someone
> > > offends you, you contact that person personally before going to
> a
> > moderator.
> > > Most of these are just misunderstandings, attempts at humor,
> etc.
> > Humor is
> > > subjective, people have different life experiences and outlooks
> on
> > what's
> > > appropriate. You'd be amazed how well people can work things
out
> > between
> > > themselves (er, depending on who the people are). Being
> moderated
> > is more
> > > like getting a traffic ticket, it makes one defensive ("I
wasn't
> > > speeding!").
> > > I've personally missed some of the weightier discussions we
> used
> > to have
> > > when there was "one group". The recent talk on religion brought
> > that back
> > > It's too bad we can't be more open on topics here (politics,
> > religion) than
> > > just what's on ebay and when the Rittenhouse Cards are coming
> out.
> > I thought
> > > the "one group" had a nice mix of stuff, now everyone seems to
> > walk on egg
> > > shells. But I guess there's no going back again.
> > > So I hope this post (written on Christmas) ends my part in the
> > bad vibes
> > > of recent days, and I'll try not to "lose it" next time.
> > > Peace, Jeff
> > > P.S.: But I refuse to turn in my sense of humor.

I thought al just said that he called his church "Our Lady Of
Worthless Miracles." One of you little sweeties is telling whoppers!

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
>
> I wonder if all the sheep over at the DG who didn't like this site
> when the "flame-wars" were going on have ever thought to check us
out
> again, just to see how fucked up their moderators are, based on
their
> tactics used over here?
>
> The answer to that is ...no. Over there Mike is, for the most
part, Mr. Nice
> Guy. He talks about how, on that group, they disagree without
insulting each
> other. (He comes over here for that) But then he says his church
is Our
> Lady Of Worthless Miracles. And James is no better. He ask
people to be more
> respectful, but he posted that, Superman can still kick God's ass
in a fight. I
> can't believe that none of the Thin-Skinned Mary's over there
weren't
> offended by these comments. Or perhaps they were, but their posts
were deleted.
> Mike talks about being Christian, but if he follows the golden
rule then I guess
> he wants people to back stab and be two-faced to him. He and Jeff
got into an
> Ass Kissing Contest that would have made you sick. Sorry, Jeff.
You're a
> gentleman I know, but you should have stuck to your guns.
Your 'Is Brent Gay?'
> contest was a legitimate one. The topic was as valid as any
discussed so far.
> But with the extremes they'll go to on the other group to keep
membership up
> so harsh, I can't really blame you. They'd kick you out just to
keep someone
> else from leaving. And without membership they're in charge of
nothing.
> There's no way the people over there would know what it's like
here unless they
> look. If someone invited them back it'd be moderated out. And
even if you
> sent them personal invitations, Mike and James would be over here
like lightning
> doing what Mike is already doing, so as to make them leave again.
If there's
> no reason to leave, there's no reason for DG to exist.

ooh you frucking brite cookie, tayk yoo vis long?

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> In a message dated 12/28/2003 4:10:20 AM Central Standard Time,
> honorius65@y... writes:
> yOO MEAN RIKE ALL the 180 peolpre in DG iriot
>
> Wrong voice for that name.

Praise Allah

All you other Israeli spies look to Alex's site with me. We must
continue to look at it!

He blames us for stopping his site then changes his mind when he
getas a cheaper provider. He is really just penniless and full of
shit.

We shall do to him what we did to Hoknes and complain about his
bootlegging. Fox will screw him hard.

Join me all Israelis and put an end to this evil.

Over.


--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "potacollective" <potacollective@h...>
wrote:

> Freedom of speach is a God given right. So it's funny how someone

who believes in God and finds my coment so offensive would take that
freedom away.

>
> It boggles the mind.
>
> Al
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: LordTZer0@A...
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 9:22 AM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Our Lady of the Worthless

Miracle.

>
>
> In a message dated 12/28/2003 7:51:38 AM Central Standard Time,

potacollective@h... writes:

> That statement was made by me as a simple joke. I didn't mean

to offend anyone by that and quite franky the only ones that were
offend were the moderators.

>
> Well, Al...Welcome to the Promise Land!
> I twas kicked out for jokes. Of course
> Mike was the butt of most of them,
> so I guess it was inevitable. But he
> does make a good butt, because he's
> a perfect horse's ass. Your quote was in
> Mike's post. Hard to believe it got cut.
> It's certainly no more offensive than James'
> Superman remark. Sorry I got it wrong.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------

-----------

> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> pota-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms

of Service.

Agent T

Do you have Alex's confidence yet?

Over

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> Actually fair moderation would be a simple matter. If someone
slips in a
> rude word you just leave the first letter and replace the rest
with stars. What
> the F***? If the whole topic is offensive, you just ask the
author to redraft
> a more broadcast friendly version of it. But there shouldn't be
any topic
> that cannot be discussed. And certainly nothing anyone should be
banned for.
> With the possible exception of the stuff Whitty's been pulling
lately. It
> would certainly make me think twice about it. But really, anyone
who's that
> annoying, you just don't read their posts. And if you get
curious, check them
> later. If it's the same old shit, just keep deleting. Someone
else may actually
> want to read them. But that doesn't mean you have to. People
should be able
> to choose for themselves what they read or don't read.

Praise Allah.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, <veetus@e...> wrote:
> Welcome Alex, to the DG "grudge match" group. Now if someone
here would actually talk "Apes" we might have something. - - - Jeff
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: potacollective
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 5:50 AM
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Our Lady of the Worthless Miracle.
>
>
> "And from my chruch, "Our Lady of the Worthless Miracle" we wish
you all
> a Merry Christmas."
>
> That statement was made by me as a simple joke. I didn't mean to
offend anyone by that and quite franky the only ones that were
offend were the moderators. So they decided to edit it and have me
say.. "we wish you all a Merry Christmas."
>
> They edited me. I still can't believe that.
> For a minute there I felt like I was living in a communist
country. So I decided to pack my bags and get the hell out of the
country, and so I did.
>
> Free at last, Free at last! :o)
>
> Al
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> pota-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
of Service.

.html.htmlIn a message dated 12/28/03 3:11:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

Most people seem to rave about it, even though it's hard to divorce it from the movie. Did anyone not like it?

I thought the main title was good, but after that it suffers from having to boost a bad movie.  I thought there was too much music in the film and that it should have tried to be more avant garde.

-- Rory<.html <.html

Alex isn't a bootlicker! He's my friend. Oh, bootlegger. Sorry, my
mistake. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "israeliagent2001" <israeliagent2001@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 2:46 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Our Alex of the Worthless Miracle.


> Praise Allah
>
> All you other Israeli spies look to Alex's site with me. We must
> continue to look at it!
>
> He blames us for stopping his site then changes his mind when he
> getas a cheaper provider. He is really just penniless and full of
> shit.
>
> We shall do to him what we did to Hoknes and complain about his
> bootlegging. Fox will screw him hard.
>
> Join me all Israelis and put an end to this evil.
>
> Over.
>
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "potacollective" <potacollective@h...>
> wrote:
> > Freedom of speach is a God given right. So it's funny how someone
> who believes in God and finds my coment so offensive would take that
> freedom away.
> >
> > It boggles the mind.
> >
> > Al
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: LordTZer0@A...
> > To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 9:22 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Our Lady of the Worthless
> Miracle.
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 12/28/2003 7:51:38 AM Central Standard Time,
> potacollective@h... writes:
> > That statement was made by me as a simple joke. I didn't mean
> to offend anyone by that and quite franky the only ones that were
> offend were the moderators.
> >
> > Well, Al...Welcome to the Promise Land!
> > I twas kicked out for jokes. Of course
> > Mike was the butt of most of them,
> > so I guess it was inevitable. But he
> > does make a good butt, because he's
> > a perfect horse's ass. Your quote was in
> > Mike's post. Hard to believe it got cut.
> > It's certainly no more offensive than James'
> > Superman remark. Sorry I got it wrong.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----------
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/
> >
> > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > pota-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
> of Service.
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> pota-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>
>

.html.htmli'm lost- can someone explain this e-mail to me?

Is this a Joke?

Tony



Subj: [Planet of the Apes] Our Alex of the Worthless Miracle.
Date: 12/28/2003 2:48:42 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: israeliagent2001@...
Reply-to: pota@yahoogroups.com
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Sent from the Internet (Details)



Praise Allah

All you other Israeli spies look to Alex's site with me. We must
continue to look at it!

He blames us for stopping his site then changes his mind when he
getas a cheaper provider. He is really just penniless and full of
shit.

We shall do to him what we did to Hoknes and complain about his
bootlegging. Fox will screw him hard.

Join me all Israelis and put an end to this evil.

Over.


--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "potacollective" <potacollective@h...>
wrote:

> Freedom of speach is a God given right. So it's funny how someone

who believes in God and finds my coment so offensive would take that
freedom away.

>
> It boggles the mind.
>
> Al
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: LordTZer0@A...
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com

<.html<.html

.html

From: israeliagent2001

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 5:46 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Our Alex of the Worthless Miracle.

Praise Allah

All you other Israeli spies look to Alex's site with me.  We must
continue to look at it!

He blames us for stopping his site then changes his mind when he
getas a cheaper provider.  He is really just penniless and full of
shit.

We shall do to him what we did to Hoknes and complain about his
bootlegging.  Fox will screw him hard.

Join me all Israelis and put an end to this evil.

Over.


--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "potacollective" <potacollective@h...>
wrote:
> Freedom of speach is a God given right. So it's funny how someone
who believes in God and finds my coment so offensive would take that
freedom away.
>
> It boggles the mind.
>
> Al
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: LordTZer0@A...
>   To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 9:22 AM
>   Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Our Lady of the Worthless
Miracle.
>
>
>   In a message dated 12/28/2003 7:51:38 AM Central Standard Time,
potacollective@h... writes:
>     That statement was made by me as a simple joke. I didn't mean
to offend anyone by that and quite franky the only ones that were
offend were the moderators.
>
>   Well, Al...Welcome to the Promise Land!
>   I twas kicked out for jokes.  Of course
>   Mike was the butt of most of them,
>   so I guess it was inevitable.  But he
>   does make a good butt, because he's
>   a perfect horse's ass.  Your quote was in
>   Mike's post.  Hard to believe it got cut.
>   It's certainly no more offensive than James'
>   Superman remark.  Sorry I got it wrong. 
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------
>   Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>     a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/
>      
>     b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>     pota-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>      
>     c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
of Service.

---

Yahoo! Groups Links

• To visit your group on the web, go to:
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/
   
• To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  pota-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
   
• .

<.html

.html <.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: kidro85@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 7:22 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Our Alex of the Worthless Miracle?????????????.

i'm lost- can someone explain this e-mail to me?

Is this a Joke?

Tony



Subj: [Planet of the Apes] Our Alex of the Worthless Miracle. 
Date: 12/28/2003 2:48:42 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: israeliagent2001@...
Reply-to: pota@yahoogroups.com
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Sent from the Internet (Details)



Praise Allah

All you other Israeli spies look to Alex's site with me.  We must
continue to look at it!

He blames us for stopping his site then changes his mind when he
getas a cheaper provider.  He is really just penniless and full of
shit.

We shall do to him what we did to Hoknes and complain about his
bootlegging.  Fox will screw him hard.

Join me all Israelis and put an end to this evil.

Over.


--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "potacollective" <potacollective@h...>
wrote:
> Freedom of speach is a God given right. So it's funny how someone
who believes in God and finds my coment so offensive would take that
freedom away.
>
> It boggles the mind.
>
> Al
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: LordTZer0@A...
>   To: pota@yahoogroups.com

---

Yahoo! Groups Links

• To visit your group on the web, go to:
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/
   
• To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  pota-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
   
• .

<.html

.html <.html

.html <.html

.html

I already told you silly boys I am the same person as asianlaydee, you guys are stupid if you missed it:

 

And the same person as Michael as well.

I'm not even sure Neil is a separate entity.

 

 

 

<.html

.html <.html

.html <.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 8:18 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Our Lady of the Worthless Miracle.

In a message dated 12/28/2003 4:48:59 PM Central Standard Time, israeliagent2001@... writes:

Agent T

Do you have Alex's confidence yet?

Over

 

You arready do that joke you clazy plick!

 

And anyway, I, for one, believe Alex.  The Musaad are a very thorough agency, and are not above putting a team on him even if they only suspect he did something he didn't do.  I commend him for being observant enough to spot them.  There are a lot of terrorist the GSG9 couldn't catch that didn't, and now they're dead now.  If more people were as vigilant maybe 9/11 wouldn't have happened.  I myself have some mid-eastern types across the way.  They leave they're shoes by the door and there's no furniture or decorations in the apartment.  And no one stays there over night.  Now, maybe they use it as a makeshift mosque for prayer times, but if something around here goes phoom, they'll be at the top of my suspect list as a terrorist cell.  Maybe, Michael, you'll might be a little more vigilant if they fly a plane into the Sydney Opera House.  Does Australia even have tall buildings?

 

 

 

 

---

Yahoo! Groups Links

• To visit your group on the web, go to:
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/
   
• To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  pota-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
   
• .

<.html

Yes I am in a relationship with a woman no less...go figure, huh???

Greg#2

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "honorius65" <honorius65@y...> wrote:
> Greg you are my kinda guy! Are you in a relationship?
>
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "greg" <gbharris1@y...> wrote:
> >
> > From: "greg" <gbharris1@y...>
> > Date: Fri Dec 26, 2003 11:27 pm
> > Subject: Re: The Two Groups and Moderation - please read this
> > everybody.
> >
> >
> > I agree with the new proposal on the way this should be handled
> from now on. James, Michael and Helen...you should all remember
that
> you can't please all of the people all of the time when you are
> trying to do your job as moderators. The interests of the group as
a
> whole is the main concern. With the new way of handling things,
> hopefully these situations can and will be avoided.
> > Also, I feel that it's partly up to the individuals as members to
> > think about what we post in the group so hopefully we don't
offend
> > anyone. In the other group I posted a message that I probably
> > should not have and I apologize if I offended anyone. It was
meant
> > as a joke but I should have thought it through before I posted
it.
> > This is my fault and I take full responsibility for it. The right
> > to free speech does come into play but we all have to remember
that
> > we as individuals have that God givin right but not everyone
wants
> > to hear it, especially if we know from experience that such
topics
> > or words have been considered offensive or in bad taste.
> > The moderators are not there to censor anyone or keep people from
> > having their own opinions and thoughts, but they are there to
help
> > keep the peace in a group of intelligent and talented people
such
> as
> > this group.
> >
> > Greg#2
> >
> > --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "James" <JamesA1102@a...> wrote:
> > > Thanks Jeff. And I also want to apologize at the poor way we
> > handled
> > > the situation.
> > >
> > > The problem with moderating such a forum is that it is hard to
> > find
> > > a middle ground that makes everyone happy. For every person who
> > > thinks we are being too srict there seems to be another who
> thinks
> > > we are being too lenient. Sometimes we don't know there is a
> > problem
> > > with a topic until after the fact. Recently a long time member
> > left
> > > the group because of a thread they found offensive (luckily we
> > were
> > > able to talk that person into coming back). None of the
> moderators
> > > had a problem with that particular thread, but we understood
the
> > > person's point. Unfortunately that may have made us a bit
> > > oversensitive.
> > >
> > > When the 'Brent is Gay' thread was originally posted last June,
> > none
> > > of the moderators had a problem with. However, some members did
> > and
> > > stated as much publically & privately. When it was brought up
> > > subsequent times objections were made again leading to this
post
> > by
> > > Michael to defend the topic:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/message/9657
> > >
> > > When it came to the announcement of the winner of your contest
we
> > > tried to have our cake and eat it too. Since you had posted the
> > > result in the other group, and many are members of both
groups;
> we
> > > thought it would let us off the hook with those here that found
> > the
> > > topic offensive while those that were interested in that topic
> > would
> > > get the info in the old group. Again, I apolozige for
misjudging
> > the
> > > situation.
> > >
> > > Jeff also makes some good points. If someone makes a post or a
> > > comment that is offensive to another members. The members
should
> > try
> > > to work it between the themselves privately before coming to
> > Helen,
> > > Michael or me. This doesn't me anyone shouldn't feel free to
come
> > to
> > > one of the moderators with their concerns. Please do and do so
> > > before leaving the group so we can try to fix the problem. It
is
> > > very disconcerting for us to get a note from Yahoo informing us
> > that
> > > a long-time member has left group when we never knew there were
> > any
> > > problems.
> > >
> > > In terms of the moderation here I'd like to restate something I
> > > posted last June on the subject:
> > >
> > > >5498 From: James
> > > >Date: Wed Jun 18, 2003 0:27am
> > > >Subject: Re: group website, conventions, goob
> > >
> > > >I don't think Michael or I ever wanted to censor people in
this
> > > >group. We wanted moderation to prevent the inflamitory posts
> that
> > > >were destroying the old group. In some cases, we've had to do
> > minor
> > > >edits to at most a handful of posts that had an offensive
word
> or
> > > >comment. Other than that I would not want to do more.
> > > >If everyone feels we should be more diligent in our
moderation
> or
> > > >that additional rules, other than those stated on the Yahoo
home
> > > >page, please feel free to propose it.
> > >
> > > And is Jeff also right when he says we should feel free to
> discuss
> > > weightier topics in relation to POTA. We are all adults here
and
> > all
> > > ideas fair game. As long as we do so respectfully without
calling
> > > someone's idea or theory 'stupid' or 'dumb' or other
inflammatory
> > > statement.
> > >
> > > Hopefully it is good that we've shaken out any bad vibes in the
> > > group now. This has been a very successful year for the DG
group
> > and
> > > maybe we can move into the New Year and make it even better.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, <veetus@e...> wrote:
> > > > OK, here's my take. A post telling me that my contest was
> > > offending people
> > > > and was being moderated would have been good. And in fact I
> > hadn't
> > > heard
> > > > ANYTHING that people were offended (though I probably
could've
> > > guessed). A
> > > > while back I did a post just in case where I explained that I
> > > thought it was
> > > > a valid topic (with explanations why) and with an apology if
my
> > > humor was
> > > > offensive. No one really commented on it; in fact, the
> responses
> > I
> > > got
> > > > suggested to me that I was going overboard in worrying about
> > > offending
> > > > people.
> > > > But fine. My "official announcement" was moderated. I just
> > > wanted to at
> > > > least announce that the contest was over and I did have a
> winner
> > > (Greg
> > > > Harris), and that I don't put on contests and not finish
them.
> > So
> > > I sent a
> > > > second post explaining that, which was also deleted, again
> > > without comment.
> > > > So I felt like I was being swept under the rug (Contest? What
> > > contest?).
> > > > Moderating a comment is one thing; I've been moderated before
> > > without
> > > > complaint. But I felt this contest was something different,
> > > something the DG
> > > > chose to run and then bailed out at the last minute (with the
> > > slight chance
> > > > that SOMEONE might have wanted to know how it turned out).
> > > > Anyway, I admit I stirred up a hornet's nest in the "other
> > > group". And I
> > > > apologize to Michael Whitty, who became my main target, even
> > > though he was
> > > > the one who sided with me in the moderation process. It just
> > > became a mess
> > > > over in the "other group", with EVERYONE doing things and
> saying
> > > things they
> > > > shouldn't have. I apologize for my part in it. I don't take
> full
> > > > responsibility and feel I was justified in some of it. But
I'm
> > > ready to move
> > > > on.
> > > > Michael suggested if there's a problem to talk to a moderator
> > > before any
> > > > rash decisions, and that's good advice. I would also suggest
if
> > > someone
> > > > offends you, you contact that person personally before going
to
> > a
> > > moderator.
> > > > Most of these are just misunderstandings, attempts at humor,
> > etc.
> > > Humor is
> > > > subjective, people have different life experiences and
outlooks
> > on
> > > what's
> > > > appropriate. You'd be amazed how well people can work things
> out
> > > between
> > > > themselves (er, depending on who the people are). Being
> > moderated
> > > is more
> > > > like getting a traffic ticket, it makes one defensive ("I
> wasn't
> > > > speeding!").
> > > > I've personally missed some of the weightier discussions we
> > used
> > > to have
> > > > when there was "one group". The recent talk on religion
brought
> > > that back
> > > > It's too bad we can't be more open on topics here (politics,
> > > religion) than
> > > > just what's on ebay and when the Rittenhouse Cards are coming
> > out.
> > > I thought
> > > > the "one group" had a nice mix of stuff, now everyone seems
to
> > > walk on egg
> > > > shells. But I guess there's no going back again.
> > > > So I hope this post (written on Christmas) ends my part in
the
> > > bad vibes
> > > > of recent days, and I'll try not to "lose it" next time.
> > > > Peace, Jeff
> > > > P.S.: But I refuse to turn in my sense of humor.

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: veetus@...

To: filmemporium@yahoogroups.com ; the gang ; PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 5:01 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] OT: "Big Fish"

  "Now the Man of the Hour

   is taking his final bow

   As the curtain comes down

   I feel that this is just goodbye for now"

 

                        - - -  "Man of the Hour", Pearl Jam

                            (from "Big Fish")

 

  "Big Fish" is Tim Burton's first movie after being dumped in scalding hot criticism for his redo of "Planet of the Apes". The talk has been that this will get him back on track and maybe even get him an Oscar nod or two. As an "Apes" fan I was curiously drawn to this film as a kind of "closure", as if a good Burton film would make everything right with the world again.

  OK, this isn't Burton's best film. Burton's best film, "Ed Wood", comes out in a special edition DVD on February 3, the same day as a special edition DVD of the best "Planet of the Apes" film, the '68 original (that's what I call a mea culpa!)

  This isn't even a movie that's going to get much in the way of nominations. Maybe for Best Original Song. It did get a Golden Globe nomination for Best Comedy, but it's too light to do much damage to people's expectations.

 But I enjoyed it. It's based on the book by Daniel Wallace about a son who goes to his father's death bed to try to find the "real person" behind the tall tales his father has been telling his whole life. From the story of the big fish, to the story of the giant, the story of the odd town he visited, his war stories ('natch), his dad has been the life of the party. Now that his life is ending the son wants "the truth".

  The father is played by Ewan McGregor as a young man and Albert Finney as an old man. His name is Edward Bloom. It just so happens the main characters of Burton's other two best efforts were named Edward (Scissorhands and Wood), making this fit nicely into an "Edward trilogy", for those who like things nice and tidy. Despite the storyline, this is not a heavy drama or a tearjerker. If it was it would have a better shot at Oscar. I guess words like "charming", "whimsical" and "amusing" are appropriate. Most of it is taken over by bringing Edward's stories to life. The odd thing is these are filmed pretty straightforward. You'd think these would be where Burton would incorporate his trademark visual style, but he's very low-key throughout. As they were leaving, I heard two kids complaining they "thought this was a Tim Burton movie". If you miss the opening credits you might not be sure either. There's some Burton elements: a witch, a werewolf, some clowns. But he's shaved off some of the darker elements of the book,including a town of broken dreams guarded by a two-headed dog that bites people's body parts off if they try to leave. The town Edward visits here has inhabitants more like the airhead Alamo folks in "Pee Wee's Big Adventure". Light, fun stuff.

  The meat of the story is the father and son relationship. It's common knowledge that Burton didn't get along with his parents and pretty much disowned them ("why" isn't really clear; they seemed to be pretty much just bland suburbanites). The last few years has seen upheaval in Burton's personal life. His dad died in 2000, his mom in 2002; he broke up with his girlfriend of almost a decade, Lisa Marie, and had his first child with his new girlfriend, Helena Bonham Carter. Even his beloved chihuahua Poppy (seen in "Mars Attacks!") died in 2001, which reportedly affected him more than the death of his parents. So Burton was in a perfect position to make a movie that reflects on life and it's twists. Add the criticisms of "Apes" and one might expect Burton has something to prove. But Burton really doesn't make much of the core relationship of the movie. There is a reconciliation at the end that is moving and brought a few tears to the audience, but it's definitely not  big drama. It hit me that the movie is more about storytellers and their creations, and how these creations can take on a life of their own. That's true whether it's stories told to friends and family, or to an audience of many, as Burton does. That's probably the key for Burton here. Usually his protagonists are young outsiders out of place among older "normal people". Here Burton identifies with the father and perhaps is starting to feel his age (Burton is 45).

  The death of a parent or mentor is actually a common Burton theme, now that I think about it. Batman's parents were killed when he was young. The other Edwards lose a father figure (Scissorhands lost the inventor, played by Vincent Price; Wood lost Lugosi). Even his previous film had a famous "father death", if only because the father was played by Charlton Heston. Burton has said he chooses films based on an emotional reaction to the material, not an intellectual one (obvious to anyone who's complained about Burton's lack of story sense).  Perhaps it's Burton's lack of closeness to his parents that attracts him to this aspect. Just a thought.

  Perhaps a big change for Burton watchers is the disappearance of his long-time girlfriend Lisa Marie, who was often cast in show-stealer roles (Vampira in "Ed Wood", the Martian spy in "Mars Attacks!". etc.). This is the first Burton movie without her in a decade, since "Batman Returns". Now his new girlfriend/star Helena Bonham Carter is taking over the position. Here she plays two roles, Jenny and a witch. The connection between those two characters is central to the story. Curiously, Carter's performance here reminded me of Christina Ricci in "Sleepy Hollow". It's an excellent cast. Burton isn't an "actor's director" but he does have a knack for casting. Jessica Lange, Danny DeVito, Steve Buscemi, Billy Crudup (change that name, bud) and Robert Guillaume are among the ensemble.

  Again, this is a fun movie about living and dying that is moving but goes easy on the waterworks. It's perhaps Burton's most sedate entry and his best film in a decade. A good one to see with the family. It would be a perfect Father's Day DVD release. - - - Jeff

 

 

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----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 5:34 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] OT: "Big Fish"

In a message dated 12/28/2003 7:01:19 PM Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

Burton isn't an "actor's director" but he does have a knack for casting.

 

I thought he was.  Isn't that why they all wanted to work with him?

 

 

 

 

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