.html <.html

.html <.html

You like playing daddy to 5 year olds - boys or girls? That's sick.


--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "potacollective" <potacollective@h...>
wrote:

> Hummm...
> I guess that just makes it even worst.
> They're daddy doesn't know how to spell brilliant. And yet I'm

they're daddy. Now that's really bad. :o)

>
> Oh, the humanity!
> Al
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: honorius65
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 2:18 AM
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Our Lady of the Worthless

Miracle.

>
>
> Sweetie, do you know how to spell "brilliant"?
>
> It really is a good idea to learn to spell "brilliant" before
> claimimg to be "brillient".
>
> Are you gay, tiger? I love to travel if you would like to go
> somewhere.
>
> Hon69er
>
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "potacollective"

<potacollective@h...>

> wrote:
> > Shenanigan backgrounds is really not what they're looking for.

I

> mean, if that were the case they'd have everyone in the whole
> country under investigtion.
> >
> > In my case I had traveled to Israel as well as done researches

in

> prophetic biblical studies. I even had a web site based on it

which

> the Israeli Mossad knew all to well about. And so they went

ahead a

> labeled me as a religious fanatic while not knowing that 100% of

the

> site's content was a total mind job on my part. Having fun with
> Nostradamus and bible prophecy, mixing the two, creating a

countdown

> to armageddon and creating chaos to those who visited. It was

just

> an innocent prank that in time I realized went a bit too far.

That I

> do admit it was my fault. But hey, I'm brillient, not perfect.
> >
> > And while I have never been religious and did go to Israel for
> love of anchient history and archaeology, of course Israel and

Egypt

> are the ideal places to go. Never made it to Egypt which I to

this

> day regret. But will make it someday. I also would like to

travel to

> Rome and Greece and in time I will.
> > But never again will I ever set foot on Israeli soil. That's

for

> sure. The people of Israel treated me with kindness and respect,
> they were all very nice to me, but the Mossad, they were not so

kind

> or respectful. But in the end I guess you can say, they soon

learned

> who they're daddy was.
> >
> >
> > Al
> > Sort for Alexander the Great. :o)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: LordTZer0@A...
> > To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2003 11:46 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Our Lady of the Worthless
> Miracle.
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 12/28/2003 8:50:02 PM Central Standard

Time,

> potacollective@h... writes:
> > If both the U.S. and Israeli intelligence had observant

people

> like me in they're agency, 9/11 would never had happened, nor

would

> they continue to be wasting they're time investigating the wrong
> people.
> >
> > Yeah, but who can pass those background checks? After old

Ross

> Perot had me slung into the hoosegow I doubt that I could.

Agencies

> don't look kindly on shenanigans.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------

----

> -----------
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/
> >
> > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > pota-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!

Terms

> of Service.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------

-----------

> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> pota-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms

of Service.

I think T is fucking with your mind sweetie.

I hope that nasty israeliagent doesn't tell fox about you because I
sure as hell want those DVDs you are offering sweetie. I can trust
you with my adress right?

Hon65



--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "potacollective" <potacollective@h...>
wrote:

> Wasn't aware of this movie. But after catching a quick glimps of

the official site, I see what you mean.

> How interesting.
>
> Al
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: LordTZer0@A...
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 2:51 AM
> Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Our Lady of the Worthless

Miracle.

>
>
> In a message dated 12/29/2003 12:22:40 AM Central Standard Time,

potacollective@h... writes:

> In my case I had traveled to Israel as well as done researches

in prophetic biblical studies. I even had a web site based on it
which the Israeli Mossad knew all to well about.

>
> Did you ever seen that movie Pi?
> That's how I picture them.
> Kabala of Kapetapec
> He's really Racer X you know.
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------

-----------

> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> pota-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms

of Service.

And I thought I was a fruitcake!

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> In a message dated 12/29/2003 9:58:09 AM Central Standard Time,
> potacollective@h... writes:
> Wasn't aware of this movie.
>
> But you did know that Kabala of Kapetapec was Racer X, right?

Temper temper! Honey, if you tell me what a DG is I'll try it out.
I'll try anything once!

You really do sound like a retard honey.

You know if you decided to devote the same time you do to screaming
at people on the web to getting laid your life would have better
balance.

You guys certainly have a long way to go to prove that I am Witty,
and the secret is in IP adresses, not what Tjerkoff was saying (he
is more retarded than you honey!). And you can change IPs.

So here's my competition: prove I a Witty and I'll let you lick my
scrotum!

Bye now sweeties!

Hon65


--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "patrickmichaeltilton"
<patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:

> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "honorius65" <honorius65@y...> wrote:
> > Honey, read his post. It says he wont be reading group emails,
> > email him privately. You retarded?
>
> *** He posted PUBLICLY at this message board, and I wanted my
> response to be public. If I want to be SURE that he sees it, I'll
> drop him an e-mail and let him know there's a message here for him

to

> read.
> What's it to you? Why do you feel the need to chime in with your
> worthless drivel? Why don't you go away and recommence the

pathetic

> circle-jerking over at the DG, and leave us alone?

Sorry sweetie this is NOT a Planet of the Apes group. It is the "We
hate Witty" group. Please stop posting about Planet of the Apes.


--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "patrickmichaeltilton"
<patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:

> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, <veetus@e...> wrote:
> > Alriiiight! A couple days ago I offered a prize to the private
> who asked the most genius question before the 1st of the year. I

said

> GENIUS! Are you geniuses? I CAN"T HEAR YOU! I said are you

GENIUSES?

> That's better. Well, if you are geniuses, then where are my
> questions? Well? Huh? Speak up! Wrong answer! There's only two

words

> I want to hear out of you maggots, and that's "Yes, Sarge!"
> > There's only 3 days left in the year. Where are my questions?
> It's enough to make me cry! No wonder the "Star Trek" fans are
> kicking your butts. Boo hoo! There's enough "Star Wars" books to
> choke King Kong. Awwwww! Who's fault is that? Could it be you're a
> bunch of worthless maggots who don't deserve "Ape" books and "Ape"
> sequels, because you can't follow simple instructions? I asked for
> questions and I WANT them!
> > What are you smiling about, Ape fan? You think it's funny?
> The "Lord of the Rings" fans bellied up to the table, and you know
> what? They got their names on the damn movie. That's right. What

do

> you get? I'll tell you what you get. You get to drop to the ground
> and give me 20. Now! And that goes for any of the rest of you

sweet

> cherries who think this is funny. You'd look really stupid at the
> next sci-fi convention with that grin on your face. You think
> the "Buffy" fans grin like that? No, they're disciplined! You ask
> them for a question and they'll ask you how many words. Hell,

they'll

> give you all the questions you want, all day and into the night.

You

> want to win in the culture wars, you have to be TOUGH! STRONG!

Able

> to TAKE it when you want to cry. I want questions, and you'd

better

> not disappoint me next time. OK, dismissed! - - - Jeff
>
> *** Hey, Jeff, you COULD have mentioned that at least ONE of us

DID

> ask a question, as part of your next little contest. It got a few
> responses, but it'd be nice if others here (excepting that hydra-
> headed abomination who shall remain nameless) would put in their

two

> cents regarding it.
>
> Patrick

Hey I get it, if someone disagrees with you they are Witty!




--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "patrickmichaeltilton"
<patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:

> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Neil" <nfoster@h...> wrote:
> > --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "patrickmichaeltilton"
> > <patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:
> >
> > > I wonder if all the sheep over at the DG who didn't like this
> site when the "flame-wars" were going on have ever thought to

check

> us out again, just to see how fucked up their moderators are,

based

> on their tactics used over here?
> >
> > Hey Patrick, I am one of the DG 'sheep' and I regularly check

this

> site out to see what is going on.
> > From the lack of anything happening except the continuing flame
> wars, it seems to me that our moderators aren't the only ones who

are

> fucked up.
> >
> > Neil
> ____

Oh blah blah, shut up bitchguts.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> That doesn't solve the problem that everyone would be related to
Stewart.
> You'd end up with a bunch of Inbred Jeds, and all the problems
that entails.
> The genetic errors start creeping in and you end up looking like
the British
> royal family!

Honey, we only just met!

Oooh you become so....almost MANLY when you are angry!

Generally I can take a spelling mistake or 2, but someone blowing
their own horn that they are superior....honey, I take them down a
peg or 2. You did get the irony didn't you retard?

And my name isn't Michael baby. If you think what Titstain said was
proof that I am, you are both retarded.

Hon65 xoxoxo



--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "patrickmichaeltilton"
<patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:

> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "honorius65" <honorius65@y...> wrote:
> > Sweetie, do you know how to spell "brilliant"?
> >
> > It really is a good idea to learn to spell "brilliant" before
> > claimimg to be "brillient".
> >
> > Are you gay, tiger? I love to travel if you would like to go
> > somewhere.
> >
> > Hon69er
>
> *** Hey jerk: as I recall, the "bad-blood" between us pretty much
> began when YOU gave ME crap for criticizing James' poor spelling.

You

> seemed to think that it was "insensitive" for me to do so, and

that I

> should've been able to know -- as if I were omniscient -- that he

had

> dyslexia.
> I wonder how poor, dyslexic James feels about you making fun of
> another person's bad spelling? You stuck up for him (which

probably

> made his heart beat faster, like Pepe le Pew when he sees a cat

with

> a stripe of white paint on his back), and now you're going out of
> your way to insult another person over here for his spelling.
>
> Hey, James, if you're reading this, ask yourself a question:

despite

> the fact that I have publicly apologized MORE THAN ONCE for

hurting

> your feelings way back when, regarding your dyslexia-induced

spelling

> troubles, why do you go out of your way to excuse the same (and
> WORSE) from your co-moderator, Michael? LordT and I have often
> accused you both of being orangutans over there, and for some

reason

> the image of Zaius, Maximus, and the President of the Assembly

doing

> the "Hear no evil, speak no evil, see no evil" bit comes to mind.

As

> far as Mikey is concerned, he can do NO WRONG in your eyes, can

he?

> Any objectionable thing he does, you just turn a blind eye to
> it. "See no evil". You dudes ARE orangutans!
>
> Patrick
>
> P.S. Hey, Michael, you jerk! If you're gonna give somebody shit

for

> misspelling "brilliant" as "brillient", you just MIGHT want to

spell-

> check your own post -- the word "claiming" is NOT

spelled "claimimg"!

> Ya got that?!

They say that guys who "flex" on the net are skinny gutless little
turds in the real world.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> In a message dated 12/29/2003 12:43:09 PM Central Standard Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
> *** Hey jerk: as I recall, the "bad-blood" between us pretty much
> began when YOU gave ME crap for criticizing James' poor spelling.
You
> seemed to think that it was "insensitive" for me to do so, and
that I
> should've been able to know -- as if I were omniscient -- that he
had
> dyslexia.
> I wonder how poor, dyslexic James feels about you making fun of
> another person's bad spelling?
>
> Hey can't we settle this like men?
> In a cage fight!

I sure am tiger. You paranoid fuck you.

Neil

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> In a message dated 12/29/2003 12:56:53 PM Central Standard Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
> Why isn't HE worthy of at least a token criticism from you?
>
> He must just be one of Whitty's many disguises.

.html You know, this deleting all his posts form of moderation works for me.  I think I'll just put a block on them.  That'll be even better!<.html

my anal passage

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> You know, this deleting all his posts form of moderation works for
me. I
> think I'll just put a block on them. That'll be even better!

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: honorius65

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 4:27 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Our Lady of the Worthless Miracle.

I think T is fucking with your mind sweetie.

I hope that nasty israeliagent doesn't tell fox about you because I
sure as hell want those DVDs you are offering sweetie.  I can trust
you with my adress right?

Hon65



--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "potacollective" <potacollective@h...>
wrote:
> Wasn't aware of this movie. But after catching a quick glimps of
the official site, I see what you mean.
> How interesting.
>
> Al
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: LordTZer0@A...
>   To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 2:51 AM
>   Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Our Lady of the Worthless
Miracle.
>
>
>   In a message dated 12/29/2003 12:22:40 AM Central Standard Time,
potacollective@h... writes:
>     In my case I had traveled to Israel as well as done researches
in prophetic biblical studies. I even had a web site based on it
which the Israeli Mossad knew all to well about.
>
>   Did you ever seen that movie Pi?
>   That's how I picture them.
>   Kabala of Kapetapec
>   He's really Racer X you know.
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------
>   Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>     a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/
>      
>     b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>     pota-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>      
>     c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
of Service.

---

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----- Original Message -----

From: honorius65

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 4:27 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Our Lady of the Worthless Miracle.

I think T is fucking with your mind sweetie.

I hope that nasty israeliagent doesn't tell fox about you because I
sure as hell want those DVDs you are offering sweetie.  I can trust
you with my adress right?

Hon65



--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "potacollective" <potacollective@h...>
wrote:
> Wasn't aware of this movie. But after catching a quick glimps of
the official site, I see what you mean.
> How interesting.
>
> Al
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: LordTZer0@A...
>   To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 2:51 AM
>   Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Our Lady of the Worthless
Miracle.
>
>
>   In a message dated 12/29/2003 12:22:40 AM Central Standard Time,
potacollective@h... writes:
>     In my case I had traveled to Israel as well as done researches
in prophetic biblical studies. I even had a web site based on it
which the Israeli Mossad knew all to well about.
>
>   Did you ever seen that movie Pi?
>   That's how I picture them.
>   Kabala of Kapetapec
>   He's really Racer X you know.
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------
>   Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>     a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/
>      
>     b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>     pota-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>      
>     c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
of Service.

---

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<.html

.html <.html

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Dan the Man

You LIKED that awful movie?

I suppose you prefer women too?

Hon65 xoxoxo

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "mystic4ever" <mystic4ever@s...> wrote:
> In case anyone's curious, I've created a new folder in the FILES
section of the group called POTA2001 DVD re-release where I've done
a few low-res scans of this nicely re-packaged recent re-release of
Burton's film. This one has a slip-case as opposed the original
clamshell release of November 2001 and a fold out center that has
new artwork on the discs. Nicely done! As far as content, the
discs contain exactly what was on the original releases, no "new"
extras. As a fan of the movie, I recommend it!
>
> Dan

.html <.html

.html <.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: mystic4ever

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 5:45 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Menluth/groups/Is this some kind of bust?/Al/Jeff

Hi Mnluth- Saw your post to me, thanks.  Although it's been a long, long time since I searched YAHOOGROUPS for POTA, I know there's more than two.  When the DG group started, if I remember correctly, there was a post advertising it here, so I assumed that's where most of the members originated from and that's why I assumed most people are with both groups.   Got your VCR set in case they air BATTLE uncut on Friday on SPACE?

 

Jeff- You posted about POTA busts.  Now all I can think about is Estella Warren!!  Seriously, are the Attar busts still available for $10?  If so where?  Does Terry Hoknes have any left from his $10K gamble on POTA2001 merchandise?

 

I've skimmed all posts, there's been lots lately:

Al- Did you get banished from the DG group for your "our lady" post or did you just have your post deleted? 

 

Jeff- In theme with Al's post and religion, how's this for an idea for next year's Christmas card: the nativity scene done ape-style with all apes around, maybe Caesar, Lisa & baby Milo as the centerpiece.  This time (believe it or not) I'm not poking fun or joking.  POTA2001 had their religious beliefs in Semos and that he would one day return (a la Jesus in our culture), would it be totally out of sync for the TV series or POTA'68 to have this as a belief?

 

Dan

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

                

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----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 9:13 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Menluth/groups/Is this some kind of bust?/Al/Jeff

In a message dated 12/29/2003 7:48:52 PM Central Standard Time, mystic4ever@... writes:

how's this for an idea for next year's Christmas card: the nativity scene done ape-style with all apes around, maybe Caesar, Lisa & baby Milo as the centerpiece. 

 

I think it would be more in keeping with the nativity theme if it was Zira & Cornelius and baby Milo.  He was the savior.  Then instead of Donkeys you could have Zebras and instead of the 3 Wise Men you could have Amando, Lewis & Stevie.  And in place of the Stables you'd have the Circus Tent and for the Star you could have a Farris Wheel all lit up.

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----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 8:44 AM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Questions & Everything

Okay Sarge, since I have a free reign.

 

Here's one . . . And it's a big one.

 

Why the hell did they go on the mission in the first place?

Lemme get this straight.  They take three guys and one gal

into what?  The future?  They knew about Hasline's theory.

So they at least had some idea it was a one way trip.  To

where?  For what?  And why the hell wouldn't you bring more

food.  One person was dead already and they only had enough

food and water for three days?  WTF?  Granted maybe they had

more that went down with the ship.  But what were they going

to do when that ran out if they hadn't found the jungle?  Sounds

like a half-assed suicide mission to me.  So that's my question.

What were they trying to acomplish?  If in fact you were on a

Adam & Eve mission you'd be far better off with three women

and one man, or even a turkey baster.  Seems to me they put

all their eggs in one basket.  Just what were they going to do

if she died in child birth and it was a boy?  Piss poor prior

planning leads to poor performance.  Mr. Murphy was also

along on that flight and Sarge, the mission went from

SNAFU to TARFU to FUBAR in short order.

 

 

 

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All the questions will be tallied up New Year's Day and a winner chosen.
This contest is providing quite a bit of good 'ol Ape talk on both groups,
which was the goal. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 10:26 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Question Everything


> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, <veetus@e...> wrote:
> > Alriiiight! A couple days ago I offered a prize to the private
> who asked the most genius question before the 1st of the year. I said
> GENIUS! Are you geniuses? I CAN"T HEAR YOU! I said are you GENIUSES?
> That's better. Well, if you are geniuses, then where are my
> questions? Well? Huh? Speak up! Wrong answer! There's only two words
> I want to hear out of you maggots, and that's "Yes, Sarge!"
> > There's only 3 days left in the year. Where are my questions?
> It's enough to make me cry! No wonder the "Star Trek" fans are
> kicking your butts. Boo hoo! There's enough "Star Wars" books to
> choke King Kong. Awwwww! Who's fault is that? Could it be you're a
> bunch of worthless maggots who don't deserve "Ape" books and "Ape"
> sequels, because you can't follow simple instructions? I asked for
> questions and I WANT them!
> > What are you smiling about, Ape fan? You think it's funny?
> The "Lord of the Rings" fans bellied up to the table, and you know
> what? They got their names on the damn movie. That's right. What do
> you get? I'll tell you what you get. You get to drop to the ground
> and give me 20. Now! And that goes for any of the rest of you sweet
> cherries who think this is funny. You'd look really stupid at the
> next sci-fi convention with that grin on your face. You think
> the "Buffy" fans grin like that? No, they're disciplined! You ask
> them for a question and they'll ask you how many words. Hell, they'll
> give you all the questions you want, all day and into the night. You
> want to win in the culture wars, you have to be TOUGH! STRONG! Able
> to TAKE it when you want to cry. I want questions, and you'd better
> not disappoint me next time. OK, dismissed! - - - Jeff
>
> *** Hey, Jeff, you COULD have mentioned that at least ONE of us DID
> ask a question, as part of your next little contest. It got a few
> responses, but it'd be nice if others here (excepting that hydra-
> headed abomination who shall remain nameless) would put in their two
> cents regarding it.
>
> Patrick
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> pota-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>
>

I think Taylor was just joking about starting a colony in "Beneath".
Obviously Stewart was meant to be the "new Eve", but I agree with T, the
odds aren't good with only one woman. How many kids can she pump out? What
if they're all male? It seems to me a new colony wasn't a high priority,
maybe an afterthought.
But Patrick's reply did give me a question: After being in hibernation all
that time, would the astronauts be in condition to do all that walking and
running? Seems they'd be atrophied. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Questions & Everything


> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> > Okay Sarge, since I have a free reign.
> >
> > Here's one . . . And it's a big one.
> >
> > Why the hell did they go on the mission in the first place? Lemme
> get this straight. They take three guys and one gal into what? The
> future? They knew about Hasline's theory. So they at least had some
> idea it was a one way trip. To where? For what? And why the hell
> wouldn't you bring more food. One person was dead already and they
> only had enough food and water for three days? WTF? Granted maybe
> they had more that went down with the ship. But what were they going
> to do when that ran out if they hadn't found the jungle? Sounds like
> a half-assed suicide mission to me. So that's my question. What were
> they trying to acomplish? If in fact you were on a Adam & Eve mission
> you'd be far better off with three women and one man, or even a
> turkey baster. Seems to me they put all their eggs in one basket.
> Just what were they going to do if she died in child birth and it was
> a boy? Piss poor prior planning leads to poor performance. Mr. Murphy
> was also along on that flight and Sarge, the mission went from SNAFU
> to TARFU to FUBAR in short order.
> ____

.html <.html

.html.htmlIn a message dated 12/29/03 10:44:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, honorius65@... writes:

Dan the Man

You LIKED that awful movie?

I suppose you prefer women too?

Hon65 xoxoxo

Will you get lost, creep!<.html <.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: space@...

To: mystic4ever@...

Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 8:53 AM

Subject: RE: Battle For The Planet Of The Apes

Hi there,

 

SPACE will be airing the 1973 production of Battle for the Planet of the Apes with Roddy McDowell on January 2 at 6 pm ET.

 

Enjoy your day.

SPACE Communications

 

<.html

Not if it were shown in a movie or TV series! I'm tempted to draw
one up myself!

Dan

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> In a message dated 12/29/2003 11:50:13 PM Central Standard Time,
> veetus@e... writes:
> But that would ooooooffend people! - - - Jeff
>
> Yes, but only narrow minded people.

.html <.html

What did I scare away your little girlfriend Al.

Who is the "brillient" one now bitch?

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 12/29/03 10:44:15 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> honorius65@y... writes:
>
>
> > Dan the Man
> >
> > You LIKED that awful movie?
> >
> > I suppose you prefer women too?
> >
> > Hon65 xoxoxo
> >
>
> Will you get lost, creep!

.html <.html

He's really a hamslammer honey.

And what a lovey rump he sports in Planet, the first gay movie.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "mystic4ever" <mystic4ever@s...> wrote:
> In a KING OF QUEENS rerun last night, Doug is talking with the
husband of one of Carrie's friends and he's going on about Charlton
Heston and the NRA and something about how Heston donated money to
some cause (my wife saw it, I didn't). Doug's response, knowing
nothing about the donation is something like "Heston, man, Planet Of
The Apes...wasn't he great!!" to which Carrie's friend
replies "Heston is a Nazi!"
> December must be POTA reference month!
> Ho ho ho!
>
> Dan

.html <.html

This is getting old, Michael. You already sent Alex into the arms of "Lord
of the Rings". - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "honorius65" <honorius65@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 1:40 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Heston is a Hamslammer


> He's really a hamslammer honey.
>
> And what a lovey rump he sports in Planet, the first gay movie.
>
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "mystic4ever" <mystic4ever@s...> wrote:
> > In a KING OF QUEENS rerun last night, Doug is talking with the
> husband of one of Carrie's friends and he's going on about Charlton
> Heston and the NRA and something about how Heston donated money to
> some cause (my wife saw it, I didn't). Doug's response, knowing
> nothing about the donation is something like "Heston, man, Planet Of
> The Apes...wasn't he great!!" to which Carrie's friend
> replies "Heston is a Nazi!"
> > December must be POTA reference month!
> > Ho ho ho!
> >
> > Dan
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> pota-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>
>

My name is not Michael toots.

Neil xoxoxo

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, <veetus@e...> wrote:
> This is getting old, Michael. You already sent Alex into the
arms of "Lord
> of the Rings". - - - Jeff
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "honorius65" <honorius65@y...>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 1:40 PM
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Heston is a Hamslammer
>
>
> > He's really a hamslammer honey.
> >
> > And what a lovey rump he sports in Planet, the first gay movie.
> >
> >
> > --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "mystic4ever" <mystic4ever@s...>
wrote:
> > > In a KING OF QUEENS rerun last night, Doug is talking with the
> > husband of one of Carrie's friends and he's going on about
Charlton
> > Heston and the NRA and something about how Heston donated money
to
> > some cause (my wife saw it, I didn't). Doug's response, knowing
> > nothing about the donation is something like "Heston, man,
Planet Of
> > The Apes...wasn't he great!!" to which Carrie's friend
> > replies "Heston is a Nazi!"
> > > December must be POTA reference month!
> > > Ho ho ho!
> > >
> > > Dan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > pota-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

.html.htmlIn a message dated 12/31/03 1:40:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, honorius65@... writes:

My name is not Michael toots.

Neil xoxoxo

Your name is ASSHOLE!<.html <.html

.html

My name is not Michael toots.

Neil xoxoxo

Your name is ASSHOLE!

<.html

.html <.html

.html <.html

.html <.html

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, <veetus@e...> wrote:

> Basically it is a suicide mission with 3 seekers. I guess we have

to assume they knew, or theorized they'd find a jungle, etc. where
they landed. If it was barren they'd be goners. They don't seem too
surprised to find an inhabitable planet. I agree, 3 woman and 1 man
would make more sense for procreation, as well as for plain 'ol
keeping the sanity (Stewart would have a heart attack with all that
activity). But that was before Women's Lib, so the astronauts were
dudes. - - - Jeff
______

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, <veetus@e...> wrote:

> All the questions will be tallied up New Year's Day and a winner

chosen.

> This contest is providing quite a bit of good 'ol Ape talk on both

groups, which was the goal. - - - Jeff

*** Jeff, was this contest posted on both groups? Or, did you post it
on this group and somebody over there saw it and made it part of
their chat? I suspect the former, due to what you just said above.
However, as I recall, the DG first began its message board by
borrowing a thread from this group (of which I was a part) and using
it to jump-start their own chatting, so it wouldn't be out-of-the-
question for them to do it again.

Patrick

P.S. I don't "lurk" on the DG anymore (it's been months since I last
bothered, and I ended up regretting it), so I wouldn't know what
kinda "Ape talk" is going on over there. By any chance, has anybody
over there chimed in concerning the jerk posting here who goes by the
multiple pseudonyms ("honorius69", "asianlaydee", etc)? Are the
masses over there oblivious to it, or has it even been mentioned over
on their message board? I'd look myself, but since you're a member
over there you'd already know, and I'd rather not waste any time
slogging through their posts.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, <veetus@e...> wrote:

> I think Taylor was just joking about starting a colony

in "Beneath". Obviously Stewart was meant to be the "new Eve", but I
agree with T, the odds aren't good with only one woman. How many kids
can she pump out? What if they're all male? It seems to me a new
colony wasn't a high priority, maybe an afterthought.

> But Patrick's reply did give me a question: After being in

hibernation all that time, would the astronauts be in condition to do
all that walking and running? Seems they'd be atrophied. - - - Jeff

________

.html <.html

Patrick (because I know you hate being called Patty, or anything
other than Patrick for that matter),

Jeff posted the contest in both groups.

Part of the reason I still exist on this group is to see if you guys
do say anything interesting re POTA. If you ever do, be sure that I
might consider opening that topic in the DG. I don't see the harm,
unless we are being childish and dwelling on things like "that's MY
topic, how DARE you discuss that". Of course, such attitudes don't
befit the freewheeling radicals you guys claim to be, so I'm sure we
won't be going there. To quote Roger Waters "This land is MY land,
This sand is MY sand, This band is MY band....oh, the lonely
voice". Pick where that quote is from and you win a prize!

As for chiming in re the "jerk" who is trying very hard to be
identified as me in drag, I am about to recruit the help of Tom
Melkor, the guy who knows what to look for in emails to identify
whose computer they are coming from, to help me discover the
identity of this person.

I will say one thing, it is not me. I am not going to even pretend
I know who it is, I don't. If anyone really does know, and it seems
from Patrick not claiming it IS me any longer that there is suddenly
some doubt (thankfully), please tell me. I can guarantee it has
nothing to do with the country these things are bouncing from and
the other "red herring" offered, IP addresses, are easily changed
apparently so whoever it is could change their IP address to the
same as mine, or Patrick's, or Jeff's.

I received an email from James yesterday asking me to explain why
Jeff had contacted him and asked him to "Tell Whitty to quit
littering our group.". After staying away from this group for a
week, hoping to allow the smoke to settle and return to some genuine
POTA chat (intending to skip the week worth of emails that I guessed
would be fairly negative and personally attacking me), I've had to
plough through all that rubbish anyway.

As for me being Neil, I think Dave Ballard can disprove that for you
but I doubt he would lower himself to bothering. That's just the
ultimate in paranoia, and that's what T's comments about being
multiple posters on the DG was trying to achieve. The bottom line
is "So what?". I'm not going to waste energy trying to identify
him, that would be brainless.

I have a plan to avoid any further paranoia or hostility on this
group: Why don't we just email each other privately with this
crap? At the same time, things may be unresolved because, for
example, if I see it is all one way traffic from someone and decide
they are focussing more on doing me harm than trying to resolve
something, I would probably say "OK, you can stop emailing me now".
But better to be unresolved PRIVATELY than unresolved on the group -
no worthy new member is going to hang around with all this hate
going on. And T has never been so right - ignore Honorius 65. He
or she will go away. People like that feed on your REACTION.

2004 is another year.

It could be the best damned year for Planet of the Apes if we want
it to be.

If anyone here is without guilt, then let him (or her) cast the
first stone. Otherwise, why don't we rebuild from the carnage?
We've all been calling eachother names and trying to trash
eachother - what has this achieved?

You want to quote from "The Wall" guys, then make Roger proud:

"Hey you, don't tell me there's no hope at all,

Together we stand, divided we fall..."

Michael

PS I hope my next quote isn't going to be:

"And when they've given you their all
Some stagger and fall
After all it's not easy
Banging your heart against some mad bugger's wall.".












--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "patrickmichaeltilton"
<patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:

> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, <veetus@e...> wrote:
> > All the questions will be tallied up New Year's Day and a

winner

> chosen.
> > This contest is providing quite a bit of good 'ol Ape talk on

both

> groups, which was the goal. - - - Jeff
>
> *** Jeff, was this contest posted on both groups? Or, did you post

it

> on this group and somebody over there saw it and made it part of
> their chat? I suspect the former, due to what you just said above.
> However, as I recall, the DG first began its message board by
> borrowing a thread from this group (of which I was a part) and

using

> it to jump-start their own chatting, so it wouldn't be out-of-the-
> question for them to do it again.
>
> Patrick
>
> P.S. I don't "lurk" on the DG anymore (it's been months since I

last

> bothered, and I ended up regretting it), so I wouldn't know what
> kinda "Ape talk" is going on over there. By any chance, has

anybody

> over there chimed in concerning the jerk posting here who goes by

the

> multiple pseudonyms ("honorius69", "asianlaydee", etc)? Are the
> masses over there oblivious to it, or has it even been mentioned

over

> on their message board? I'd look myself, but since you're a member
> over there you'd already know, and I'd rather not waste any time
> slogging through their posts.

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2003 12:46 PM

Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Digest Number 1806

In a message dated 12/31/2003 1:55:05 PM Central Standard Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

Okay then, fuck off.

I'm sorry.  There should have been a smiley face with that.   : )

 

---

Yahoo! Groups Links

• To visit your group on the web, go to:
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/
   
• To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  pota-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
   
• .

<.html

The contest is for both groups. But it's possible I might be swayed by
sexual favors.
I brought up "the lurker" to the moderators of the DG. Honorius makes all
POTA fans look bad, so it's their problem, too. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2003 1:13 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Question Everything


> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, <veetus@e...> wrote:
> > All the questions will be tallied up New Year's Day and a winner
> chosen.
> > This contest is providing quite a bit of good 'ol Ape talk on both
> groups, which was the goal. - - - Jeff
>
> *** Jeff, was this contest posted on both groups? Or, did you post it
> on this group and somebody over there saw it and made it part of
> their chat? I suspect the former, due to what you just said above.
> However, as I recall, the DG first began its message board by
> borrowing a thread from this group (of which I was a part) and using
> it to jump-start their own chatting, so it wouldn't be out-of-the-
> question for them to do it again.
>
> Patrick
>
> P.S. I don't "lurk" on the DG anymore (it's been months since I last
> bothered, and I ended up regretting it), so I wouldn't know what
> kinda "Ape talk" is going on over there. By any chance, has anybody
> over there chimed in concerning the jerk posting here who goes by the
> multiple pseudonyms ("honorius69", "asianlaydee", etc)? Are the
> masses over there oblivious to it, or has it even been mentioned over
> on their message board? I'd look myself, but since you're a member
> over there you'd already know, and I'd rather not waste any time
> slogging through their posts.
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> pota-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>
>

That could be an interesting story, a "What if?" What if all four
astronauts survived and had to build their colony amongst a planet of the
apes? Would Stewart be "in the mood' enough? When Brent lands he could add
even more to the gene pool (though Taylor would have to force him at
gunpoint to do Stewart). - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2003 1:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Questions & Everything


> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, <veetus@e...> wrote:
> > Basically it is a suicide mission with 3 seekers. I guess we have
> to assume they knew, or theorized they'd find a jungle, etc. where
> they landed. If it was barren they'd be goners. They don't seem too
> surprised to find an inhabitable planet. I agree, 3 woman and 1 man
> would make more sense for procreation, as well as for plain 'ol
> keeping the sanity (Stewart would have a heart attack with all that
> activity). But that was before Women's Lib, so the astronauts were
> dudes. - - - Jeff
> ______

.html <.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: mystic4ever

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2004 11:01 AM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Jap Figures

 

Jeff- Never heard of these.  What are they?

 

Dan

 

   From: <veetus@...>
Subject: Re: RE: Re: POTA COLLECTING

  Yo, Bill! I've been trying to find some info about the POTA2001 stuff that
was released in Japan (Jun Planing, etc.). How familiar are you with what
was released? - - - Jeff

---

Yahoo! Groups Links

• To visit your group on the web, go to:
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/
   
• To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
  pota-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
   
• .

<.html

<LordTZer0@...> wrote:

> I'll start . . . Rod Serling said, "I have a lot of things I want to

make

> comment on. First of al prejudice. Which I feel is the most innate

evil in our

> society. Ultimately all evils grow from it. But you just can't

deal with

> meaningful social issues on television." That was true, at least

when he

> started. He said it's hard to do high drama when you have a dozen

cartoon cats

> dancing in every 15 minuets to sell toilet paper. But I think he

got to say a lot

> about it when he worked on Apes, since the original source material

was

> essentially about it. How do all of you feel it was addressed, or

not?

I believe this is exactly the reason why he created The Twilight Zone.
You couldn't address racism, prejudice etc. - but then when you tell
the same stories replacing humans with ghosts, aliens, robots, etc.
you could get away with it.

Alan

"Michael Whitty" <Michael.Whitty@...> wrote:

> To quote Roger Waters "This land is MY land,
> This sand is MY sand, This band is MY band....oh, the lonely
> voice". Pick where that quote is from and you win a prize!

That's from Roger Waters & the Bleeding Heart Band's soundtrack to the
excellent film "When the Wind Blows". (I always though it was "lonely
boys" rather than "lonely voice" however)

Alan

.html <.html

.html <.html

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the pota
group.

File : /POTA TV series/000potatvguide.JPG
Uploaded by : erika4pug <mystic4ever@...>
Description : 1974 TV GUIDE article announcing the show

You can access this file at the URL

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/POTA%20TV%20series/000potatvguide.JPG

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit

http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

erika4pug <mystic4ever@...>

.html <.html

.html <.html

.html.htmlIn a message dated 1/1/04 4:23:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, mystic4ever@... writes:

After the way you treated me and select others, I don't feel I can trust you. 

I am truly sorry it's come to this.

Peace and out...

Dan

I've never trusted Michael either.  There's just somethin' not right about that boy.

And he's so silly.

-- Rory<.html <.html

.html.htmlIn a message dated 1/1/04 8:20:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

Exactly correct.  And of the 100 some odd episodes he wrote 70 of them himself.

I saw that American Masters episode the other night.  Gave NO TIME at all to his involvement with POTA, except to say that he was a lousy screenplay writer.  Odd then, isn't it, that his name is most associated with the writing of the first movie.

What do you think, Lord T Hee?

-- Rory

<.html<.html

.html <.html

.html <.html

Correct Alan. I'm looking for a prize right now and I think you
will like it more than what Honorius65 offered. Maybe I'll send you
a photo of me meeting Roger Waters and him signing a T-Shirt for
me. ;)

You could be right about about it being "boys", not "voice", but it
translates the same:

If you want to squabble about who brought up a topic, you could do
it ad infinitum until you had Pierre Boulle's widow claiming "You
can't say Monkey Planet". It's all crap lads.

Michael

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Alan Maxwell" <alan@a...> wrote:
> "Michael Whitty" <Michael.Whitty@d...> wrote:
> > To quote Roger Waters "This land is MY land,
> > This sand is MY sand, This band is MY band....oh, the lonely
> > voice". Pick where that quote is from and you win a prize!
>
> That's from Roger Waters & the Bleeding Heart Band's soundtrack to
the
> excellent film "When the Wind Blows". (I always though it
was "lonely
> boys" rather than "lonely voice" however)
>
> Alan

I think he could write a story explaining why all you guys
immediately accused me of being Honorius65. It's called prejudice,
and sorry fellas, we ALL are.

I jumped to a few conclusions in my mind too but instead of blurting
it I've decided it really doesn't matter who it was. It sure was
someone who wanted to stir up a reaction against me, that's a no
brainer.

Michael

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> In a message dated 1/1/2004 1:20:41 PM Central Standard Time,
> alan@a... writes:
> I believe this is exactly the reason why he created The Twilight
Zone.
> You couldn't address racism, prejudice etc. - but then when you
tell
> the same stories replacing humans with ghosts, aliens, robots, etc.
> you could get away with it.
>
> Exactly correct. And of the 100 some odd episodes he wrote 70 of
them
> himself.

Oh Rory, stop it. Not only do some people here think you are
serious, but it will probably motivate these people to start at me
again.

Anyway, you're the silly one.

Now here's a question....who is the silliest POTA fan of all you
have "met"?

Michael

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 1/1/04 4:23:43 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> mystic4ever@s... writes:
>
>
> > After the way you treated me and select others, I don't feel I
can trust
> > you.
> >
> > I am truly sorry it's come to this.
> >
> > Peace and out...
> >
> > Dan
> >
>
> I've never trusted Michael either. There's just somethin' not
right about
> that boy.
>
> And he's so silly.
>
> -- Rory

T,

I'm not playing any more.

You go ahead and make yourself look as bad as you want.

Michael

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> In a message dated 1/1/2004 3:23:56 PM Central Standard Time,
> mystic4ever@s... writes:
> I am truly sorry it's come to this.
>
> Peace and out...
>
> Dan
>
> Wow! That pretty much says it all.
> After that I'd even be happy to discuss some of the old topic.
Perhaps some
> of the new people have something new to offer on them and we might
have some
> new insights as well.
>
>
> "What is the greatest joy?"
> "The joy of unity!"
> ~~~Lord John Wotfin and the Red Lectroids from Buckaroo Bansai~~~~

.html.htmlIn a message dated 1/1/04 9:09:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

Pierre Boulle's widow

BOULLE WAS GAY!

And I'm not joking.

-- Rory<.html <.html

Rory

Stop calling T names!

Michael

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> In a message dated 1/1/2004 7:28:59 PM Central Standard Time,
> Haristas@a... writes:
> Odd then, isn't it, that his name is most associated with the
writing of the
> first movie.
>
> What do you think, Lord T Hee?
>
> I dunno. I though it was only an hour show and my tape cut off in
the
> Twilight Zone days. I hope it's on again soon.

.html <.html

.html <.html

Today, in honour of my birthday (or so I'm telling myself!), the
SPACE channel up here is having their POTA marathon today. BATTLE
airs at 6:00pm EST, I'll be taping it in case it's the complete uncut
version. Out of curiosity, when the bomb version aired in the U.S.,
was it letterbox or pan & scan?

Dan

I'm all for new peace.
I'm actually contributing more by uploading files of some of my
stuff. Had everyone seen that TV GUIDE clipping before?

Dan

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> I was just amazed it had been put so succinctly. But I'm happy to
keep the
> new peace. Though I look at it with a certain amount of
incredulity. Ever
> notice that Whitty and Honorius are never in the room at the same
time.
> Coincidence? or something more?

Just found this message, got lost in my in-box, sorry LordT...
There's a Zira in Lion King II: Simba's Pride but unfortunately they
never made a toy of her. It's only a matter of time before my oldest
daughter asks me to make one, I've made several LK characters for her
that to the best of my knowledge aren't available like Kovu &
Serafina. In case anyone cares, Lion King 1-1/2 comes out on
February 10.

Roar!

Dan

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> In a message dated 12/25/2003 9:07:12 AM Central Standard Time,
> mystic4ever@s... writes:
> No POTA gifts here, but
> my oldest daughter got a lot of Lion King stuff
>
> Well, they had a Zira too.

That makes me think...I've never seen Harrison Ford in the same room
with Han Solo. Coincidence? Something more? =o)

Seriously, it looks like Honorius is just Whitty trying to prove a
point in his own way that a group without moderation is chaos, but
while it does look that way, I am hoping it isn't him.

While I do have a major issues with Michael, I don't "hate" the guy
and like to think that he wouldn't stoop to Hononrius' level.

I've received several messages outside the group regarding my post
yesterday and they're either "come back to DG, Dan" or "I hate
Whitty, too", but I've been quick to point out that I don't hate
Whitty.

Dan

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> I was just amazed it had been put so succinctly. But I'm happy to
keep the
> new peace. Though I look at it with a certain amount of
incredulity. Ever
> notice that Whitty and Honorius are never in the room at the same
time.
> Coincidence? or something more?

"Michael Whitty" <Michael.Whitty@...> wrote:

> Correct Alan. I'm looking for a prize right now and I think you
> will like it more than what Honorius65 offered. Maybe I'll send you
> a photo of me meeting Roger Waters and him signing a T-Shirt for
> me. ;)

No need - the smug satisfaction of demonstrating my boundless
knowledge of useless information is prize enough.

> You could be right about about it being "boys", not "voice", but it
> translates the same:

I think it's "boys" because the next line is "in their towers of
faith". I love that film.

Alan

.html.htmlIn a message dated 1/2/04 10:31:12 AM Eastern Standard Time, mystic4ever@... writes:

Out of curiosity, when the bomb version aired in the U.S.,
was it letterbox or pan & scan?

Dan

Letterboxed.<.html <.html

Why can't you just leave it alone??? Let it die dude.

Greg#2

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> I was just amazed it had been put so succinctly. But I'm happy to
keep the
> new peace. Though I look at it with a certain amount of
incredulity. Ever
> notice that Whitty and Honorius are never in the room at the same
time.
> Coincidence? or something more?

This is a post that James did in the DG in response to Dan's post
about Whitty and leaving the group. It is not intended to stir
things up but rather to explain a lot of things about what's been
going on. Maybe some of you might fine this interesting. Please
read.

Peace,

Greg#2


First, I'd like to apologize to all the members of DG for this. I
know that
many of you migrated here to escape the flame wars, general anarchy
and
immature BS of the old group. Unfortunately, even after a year there
are still
those
in the old group who resent the existence and success of the DG group
and
will do whatever they can to disrupt things here.

Normally, I would ignore and delete such a rant but there are several
things
that need to be said here. I have no personal animosity toward Dan
but I feel
that the record should be set straight.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "mystic4ever" <mystic4ever@s...> wrote:
> On page 6 of SIMIAN SCROLLS, SUMMER 2003 edition is a full > page
article detailing Michael Whitty's OFFICIAL POTA FAN CLUB. One phrase
that is
used to describe what Michael is doing is "once and for all
organizing the
rag-tag legions out there into one group." Michael is the
president/leader of
this
OFFICIAL POTA FAN CLUB and moderator of the POTA DG group. This
self-appointed position puts a lot of responsibility on Michael as he
relies on
fans to
identify themselves to him to hopefully one day accumulate enough
names so that
FOX will take interest, see the possible dollar signs and allow
something
special to be made available to the CLUB.
>

For the record, the only reason that Michael Whitty is in what you
call a
"self-appointed" position is that he took the initiative to contact
FOX and get
things moving. He is not content to sit around and wait for things to
just
happen. Michael is a dedicated
POTA fan who has done more for POTA fandom in the last year than
most of us (myself included) have done in our lifetime. He created
this group, with me, to give mature POTA fans a safe haven to discuss
POTA.
It's success can be measured in the over 1000 posts a month as well
as its
rapidly growing membership which is
now the biggest POTA group on Yahoo. Michael is also working to have
Spanish
POTA comics translated for fans, helped start a new POTA
comic "Beware the
Beast" and is in regular correspondence with FOX & Harper Collins
about
producing
new POTA books & merchandise for fans. All this while working full
time and
being a loving husband & father to four beautiful daughters.
Michael is a doer. Some people that just talk big are always
jealous of doers. Michael deserves better. He deserves our support
when unfairly attacked.


> A good leader looks after all his followers (for lack of a better
word). In this case, if people fall off the POTA wagon that Michael
is driving,

it's hurting his cause which in the end is our cause as fans, since
we all
enjoy something new on POTA.
>

Of course there are always people that jump off the wagon or are
holding the
rest back and get thrown off so the whole group can move forward.
Just because
someone is a fellow POTA fan doesn't mean we should have blind
loyalty to
them when their actions hurt the rest of the group.

> As leader, Michael needs to keep the group of POTA fans together as
one
strong unit. I see the POTA group and the DG group has between 140-
200 or so
fans each. I can't believe the numbers are this low, there has to be
more fans
out there that either aren't aware of Michael's CLUB or are just
older and not
on the Internet. So, assuming Michael knows people outside the
digital world
who are members of the CLUB as well, he's representing a lot of us
when he's
talking with FOX or organizing his CLUB.
>

The numbers are even lower when you consider many are members of both
groups.
But Michael has done his best (and more than anyone else including
me) to
seek out POTA fans from around the globe. We should be praising him
for this and

not demonizing him for the few immature fans who've 'fallen off the
wagon' as
you put it.


> While moderation is necessary, I am disappointed at Michael's
inability as a leader to do the right thing when it came to the now
infamous
"Brent"
contest that was offered to both groups and the circus that followed.
>

You're right moderation is necessary. When we formed this group a
year ago
the one thing most of the handful of original members wanted was a
moderated
forum with rules to prevent the anarchy which was seen as destroying
the old
group.

As far as the infamous 'Brent' contest some things need to be set
straight.
Moderating a large diverse group is very difficult at times.
Sometimes you are
forced to make decisions for the greater good of the group that
unfortunately
penalize a single person. And sometimes you don't always make the
right
decision. In the case of Jeff's contest there were several factors we
had to
take
into consideration.

- When Jeff first brought up the 'Brent is Gay' thread last June,
several
members both publicly and privately stated they found the topic
offensive.
Anyone
that cares to can read these posts at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDGarchives/files/ArchiveJun03.doc

- The topic was again brought up in July with the contest. At that
time the
stated goal was to 'save Brent's reputation'. Again several members
both
publicly and privately made it known that they found the topic and
the flippant
approach of the contest offensive.

- It was brought it up again in early October. Again there were
people that
objected to it and Michael Whitty wrote the following to defend the
topic.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/message/9657 . Again we allowed
the topic
to
run its natural course and die.

- However, it brought it up once again in late November. And again
other
members let the moderators know they were offended.

Thus, the topic was brought up several times and allowed to be
discussed
without interference despite both the public and private the
objections of other

members. In each case the topic ran the natural course of discussion.
And in
every case the objections of other members were openly discussed in
the group
and even Jeff acknowledged the objections
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/message/9617). However, there
came a point
where any further discussion was
simply beating a dead horse for the sake of it. The moderators
discussed this
and Michael was actually the strongest advocate for letting it
continue.
However, when we weighed all the pros and cons; we reluctantly
decided that any
further posts on this topic would be deleted.

Afterwards we realized we had made a mistake since the deleted post
was the
conclusion of the topic. We also made a mistake by deleting it without
discussing it with Jeff first and letting him know why. For that we
apologize to
Jeff.
We are only human and make mistakes like everyone else. And Michael
was the
first one to admit our mistake and try to rectify the situation
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/message/12287)


> I'm one of the people who made an off-the-cuff remark, intended as
a joke.
I've mentioned my post to friends over the holidays and virtually all
had a
laugh at it and most followed up with "you probably shouldn't have
said that",
just as Michael pointed out in a follow up post. So an innocent joke
got
misinterpreted by a few people. Anyone that knows me or has read
older posts of

mine know that I have a sense of humour and in this case I
unintentionally went
overboard. Despite posting a retraction in which I explained myself,
Michael, the leader of the OFFICIAL POTA CLUB saw fit to not only
jump on my
followup and dismiss it, but hint that I'm a racist and also
(according to
Michael)
poll some of the people who I supposedly offended and post the
results of how
bad a human being I am to the group. I was also called "stupid" by
whoever
Michael supposedly questioned. I posted a second followup, again
explaining
myself and that I meant no harm. There were other explanations posted
about the

contest, but Michael still would not let it go as what I believe a
good leader,
representing the fans of POTA should have done.
>

I've seen the post mentioned and the vile term you used. If you used
such a
word in the DG Group, the post would have been deleted and you may
have been
banned. People have used such words through out history with the
excuse 'I'm on
ly joking' to label and dehumanize others because they are different.
No such
word or term is acceptable regardless of the context. Continued use
of such
terms just prevents them from dying out from the lexicon and, in the
end, makes
them more acceptable.
And Michael's attempt to enlighten you as to how objectionable and
hurtful
the term you used is to others; seems to have fallen on deaf ears.


> Michael says in his most recent post "Part of the reason I still
exist on this group is to see if you guys do say anything interesting
re POTA.
If
you ever do, be sure that I might consider opening that topic in the
DG. I
don't see the harm, unless we are being childish and dwelling on
things like
"that's MY topic, how DARE you discuss that". I believe what Michael
means to
say is "My POTA DG group is the only group that fans should go to."
Michael
denies it,
>

I love it when people put words in other people's mouths. It usually
means
that they have no facts to back up their attacks so they have to make
stuff up.
Why shouldn't Michael belong to whatever POTA groups he wants? I am a
member
of several other POTA groups, including Planet of the Apes Zone and
Mez's
Friend & Fugitive group. It is a way to stay in touch with other POTA
fans who
may
not be members here. I'm sure many of the members here also belong to
one or
more POTA groups. And if an interesting topic is discussed elsewhere,
what is
the damage if it is brought up here as well? We don't have an
objection if a
topic here is discussed by another group.


>but it's plain to me that he is one who has been attempting to
sabotage the
other POTA group by posting racial slurs and offensive gay remarks
that are
uncalled for. What he's trying to do is get people to leave that
group for his

OFFICIAL POTA DG GROUP and bump up his members there where he can
slam the
"radicals" of the "other" group as he calls it. This is just another
case, in
my opinion, as someone once posted about Michael that he "starts the
fire and
then puts it out so he can be the hero". Here, he assumes two new
identities
out of the blue in the "other" POTA group who join the group just as
our heated
debate over the "Brent" contest is at it's peak, only because Michael
continued the war of words. The postings of "honorius" (or whoever)
have no
other
purpose than to annoy people. So now Michael returns and as saviour
of the POTA

fans is promising to find out who these people are with all the
vigour of a
1995 O.J. Simpson when he promised he wouldn't rest until the "true"
criminals
were brought to justice when all along he was the bad guy. I can't
prove it,
but my money say's it Michael, that's how I see it.
>

Everyone is innocent until proven guilty. You're the second person in
as many
days who has accused Michael of assuming an alternate identity. Of
course,
you present no evidence to back up your claim. I know for a fact that
Michael is

very concerned about this Honorius person and feels he is being set-
up.


> I'm really sorry to have to say this Michael, but please, see
better.
As leader, more is expected of you, especially over something that
should
have been a non-issue like the "Brent" contest and the aftermath.
Remember,
you're supposed to be bringing people of the POTA fandom together,
not forcing
people out of your group.
>

No one has been forced out of this group. Jeff is still a member here
and
banning him was never ever considered. Jeff does like to test our
limits at
times
but we are glad to have him as a member of the group.
The only people that are currently banned from this group are
spammers which
is done for the greater good of the group. LordTZer0 was banned last
summer
mainly because several members contacted us privately and told us
they would
leave the group if he wasn't banned. Patrick Tilton has never been
banned and is

still welcome to join this group if he agrees to adhere to the rules,
but he
refuses to do so.
In fact for every person like Alex who leaves in a public tiff,
several
members have left or have fallen silent not because we have been too
strict but
rather because they felt we were not strict enough feeling we had
allowed
certain
disruptive elements and topics too much latitude in the group. As I
said
earlier, moderating such a large group is a balancing act and
sometimes it is
hard
to make everyone happy.


>Now Al, possibly the only guy with the best quality POTA cartoons,
who
offered them to us this month is gone.
>

Alex has been promising those Cartoon DVDs for a long time now. He
first did
so in the old group in 2002. He didn't come through then either.
Don't get me
wrong I like Alex but he has reneged on this offer before. I also
find it odd
that he left at the same time he decided to convert his website
(www.techcomforces.com) from a POTA to a 'Lord of the Rings' site.
As far as the reasons Alex for leaving, many members became concerned
when
Alex started posting about the Israeli Mossad being after him. I'm
not in a
position to prove or disprove what Alex said but it alarmed enough
members to
have
them request that he be moderated. One of Alex's posts had been
deleted. It
was a nasty flame against Rory. As the rules on the Yahoo Home page
state,
Flame wars between members are not allowed & All messages that
violate the rules

will me deleted. Anyone who joins this group agrees to those rules and
shouldn't complain when they are enforced.
Alex also objected to the editing I did to one of his posts. Several
days
earlier I had posted something flippant in regard to religion.
Members that were

offended by my post contacted me about it. I apologized to them and
deleted
said post. On Christmas Eve, when members were wishing each other a
Merry
Christmas; Alex posted a message that was derogatory to those with
Christian
religious beliefs. Thus it fell in to the category of a flame. I
privately
explained
to Alex the reasons why the post was edited but he refused to
understand.
Again, all we did was enforce the stated rules of the group that all
members
agree
to when they join.
If Alex decides to rejoin the group, he is more than welcome to. He
was not
forced out but left on his own. But if he does come back he will have
to adhere
to the same rules that every other member does.

> I've received other messages from members who aren't impressed with
all the
attention the "Brent contest" is getting over the usual POTA
discussion which
these groups were designed for. Unlike Michael, I won't post the
names or
the contents of the messages to prove my point.
>

Funny I've been getting private messages from members too. They feel
we
should have killed the 'Brent contest' long ago and urge us to not
buckle under
to
the intimidation tactics now being employed by those in the old group
who are
not even members of DG.

> This message is going to both groups. This will be my final post to
the DG group, I am leaving it after I post this. I will remain with
the
"other" group only.
>


Well if you want to leave, it is your decision. But to blame Michael
for
everything that you feel has gone wrong is simply unfair. Michael is
but one of
three moderators in the DG group. Myself and Helen are the other two
moderators
and we share the responsibility for whatever actions or mistakes are
made
here.

As far so the old group, it is unfair to blame Michael for it falling
apart.
That group did it to itself. Michael didn't force anyone to leave the
old
group and join DG. People did that freely because they were sick of
the childish

BS going on over there. Michael has never forced anyone to run to the
old group
to complain about DG. Those that did, did so of their own accord and
some
without even trying to work things the moderators here first. Just
look at the
old group, in the past year they barely averaged 200 messages per
month. And
most of those are attacks on Michael and the DG group.

True, Michael does defend himself there when attacked which is his
right. He
was unfairly attacked once in Mez's group as well. Why should he stay
silent
when people are unfairly vilifying him?

Blaming Michael for all that is wrong in this situation is totally
unfair.
All you are doing is making him a scapegoat for those who refuse to
take
personal responsibility for their own actions, for those who think it
is their
God
given right to offend others but then complain when they are shunned
for it.

Michael is not the terrible person you paint him to be. He is a great
POTA
fan and someone I am proud to call a friend.

Oops...find. sorry for the typo

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "greg" <gbharris1@y...> wrote:
> This is a post that James did in the DG in response to Dan's post
> about Whitty and leaving the group. It is not intended to stir
> things up but rather to explain a lot of things about what's been
> going on. Maybe some of you might fine this interesting. Please
> read.
>
> Peace,
>
> Greg#2
>
>
> First, I'd like to apologize to all the members of DG for this. I
> know that
> many of you migrated here to escape the flame wars, general anarchy
> and
> immature BS of the old group. Unfortunately, even after a year
there
> are still
> those
> in the old group who resent the existence and success of the DG
group
> and
> will do whatever they can to disrupt things here.
>
> Normally, I would ignore and delete such a rant but there are
several
> things
> that need to be said here. I have no personal animosity toward Dan
> but I feel
> that the record should be set straight.
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "mystic4ever" <mystic4ever@s...>
wrote:
> > On page 6 of SIMIAN SCROLLS, SUMMER 2003 edition is a full > page
> article detailing Michael Whitty's OFFICIAL POTA FAN CLUB. One
phrase
> that is
> used to describe what Michael is doing is "once and for all
> organizing the
> rag-tag legions out there into one group." Michael is the
> president/leader of
> this
> OFFICIAL POTA FAN CLUB and moderator of the POTA DG group. This
> self-appointed position puts a lot of responsibility on Michael as
he
> relies on
> fans to
> identify themselves to him to hopefully one day accumulate enough
> names so that
> FOX will take interest, see the possible dollar signs and allow
> something
> special to be made available to the CLUB.
> >
>
> For the record, the only reason that Michael Whitty is in what you
> call a
> "self-appointed" position is that he took the initiative to contact
> FOX and get
> things moving. He is not content to sit around and wait for things
to
> just
> happen. Michael is a dedicated
> POTA fan who has done more for POTA fandom in the last year than
> most of us (myself included) have done in our lifetime. He created
> this group, with me, to give mature POTA fans a safe haven to
discuss
> POTA.
> It's success can be measured in the over 1000 posts a month as well
> as its
> rapidly growing membership which is
> now the biggest POTA group on Yahoo. Michael is also working to
have
> Spanish
> POTA comics translated for fans, helped start a new POTA
> comic "Beware the
> Beast" and is in regular correspondence with FOX & Harper Collins
> about
> producing
> new POTA books & merchandise for fans. All this while working full
> time and
> being a loving husband & father to four beautiful daughters.
> Michael is a doer. Some people that just talk big are always
> jealous of doers. Michael deserves better. He deserves our support
> when unfairly attacked.
>
>
> > A good leader looks after all his followers (for lack of a better
> word). In this case, if people fall off the POTA wagon that Michael
> is driving,
>
> it's hurting his cause which in the end is our cause as fans, since
> we all
> enjoy something new on POTA.
> >
>
> Of course there are always people that jump off the wagon or are
> holding the
> rest back and get thrown off so the whole group can move forward.
> Just because
> someone is a fellow POTA fan doesn't mean we should have blind
> loyalty to
> them when their actions hurt the rest of the group.
>
> > As leader, Michael needs to keep the group of POTA fans together
as
> one
> strong unit. I see the POTA group and the DG group has between 140-
> 200 or so
> fans each. I can't believe the numbers are this low, there has to
be
> more fans
> out there that either aren't aware of Michael's CLUB or are just
> older and not
> on the Internet. So, assuming Michael knows people outside the
> digital world
> who are members of the CLUB as well, he's representing a lot of us
> when he's
> talking with FOX or organizing his CLUB.
> >
>
> The numbers are even lower when you consider many are members of
both
> groups.
> But Michael has done his best (and more than anyone else including
> me) to
> seek out POTA fans from around the globe. We should be praising him
> for this and
>
> not demonizing him for the few immature fans who've 'fallen off the
> wagon' as
> you put it.
>
>
> > While moderation is necessary, I am disappointed at Michael's
> inability as a leader to do the right thing when it came to the now
> infamous
> "Brent"
> contest that was offered to both groups and the circus that
followed.
> >
>
> You're right moderation is necessary. When we formed this group a
> year ago
> the one thing most of the handful of original members wanted was a
> moderated
> forum with rules to prevent the anarchy which was seen as
destroying
> the old
> group.
>
> As far as the infamous 'Brent' contest some things need to be set
> straight.
> Moderating a large diverse group is very difficult at times.
> Sometimes you are
> forced to make decisions for the greater good of the group that
> unfortunately
> penalize a single person. And sometimes you don't always make the
> right
> decision. In the case of Jeff's contest there were several factors
we
> had to
> take
> into consideration.
>
> - When Jeff first brought up the 'Brent is Gay' thread last June,
> several
> members both publicly and privately stated they found the topic
> offensive.
> Anyone
> that cares to can read these posts at:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDGarchives/files/ArchiveJun03.doc
>
> - The topic was again brought up in July with the contest. At that
> time the
> stated goal was to 'save Brent's reputation'. Again several members
> both
> publicly and privately made it known that they found the topic and
> the flippant
> approach of the contest offensive.
>
> - It was brought it up again in early October. Again there were
> people that
> objected to it and Michael Whitty wrote the following to defend the
> topic.
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/message/9657 . Again we
allowed
> the topic
> to
> run its natural course and die.
>
> - However, it brought it up once again in late November. And again
> other
> members let the moderators know they were offended.
>
> Thus, the topic was brought up several times and allowed to be
> discussed
> without interference despite both the public and private the
> objections of other
>
> members. In each case the topic ran the natural course of
discussion.
> And in
> every case the objections of other members were openly discussed in
> the group
> and even Jeff acknowledged the objections
> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/message/9617). However, there
> came a point
> where any further discussion was
> simply beating a dead horse for the sake of it. The moderators
> discussed this
> and Michael was actually the strongest advocate for letting it
> continue.
> However, when we weighed all the pros and cons; we reluctantly
> decided that any
> further posts on this topic would be deleted.
>
> Afterwards we realized we had made a mistake since the deleted post
> was the
> conclusion of the topic. We also made a mistake by deleting it
without
> discussing it with Jeff first and letting him know why. For that we
> apologize to
> Jeff.
> We are only human and make mistakes like everyone else. And Michael
> was the
> first one to admit our mistake and try to rectify the situation
> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/message/12287)
>
>
> > I'm one of the people who made an off-the-cuff remark, intended
as
> a joke.
> I've mentioned my post to friends over the holidays and virtually
all
> had a
> laugh at it and most followed up with "you probably shouldn't have
> said that",
> just as Michael pointed out in a follow up post. So an innocent
joke
> got
> misinterpreted by a few people. Anyone that knows me or has read
> older posts of
>
> mine know that I have a sense of humour and in this case I
> unintentionally went
> overboard. Despite posting a retraction in which I explained myself,
> Michael, the leader of the OFFICIAL POTA CLUB saw fit to not only
> jump on my
> followup and dismiss it, but hint that I'm a racist and also
> (according to
> Michael)
> poll some of the people who I supposedly offended and post the
> results of how
> bad a human being I am to the group. I was also called "stupid" by
> whoever
> Michael supposedly questioned. I posted a second followup, again
> explaining
> myself and that I meant no harm. There were other explanations
posted
> about the
>
> contest, but Michael still would not let it go as what I believe a
> good leader,
> representing the fans of POTA should have done.
> >
>
> I've seen the post mentioned and the vile term you used. If you
used
> such a
> word in the DG Group, the post would have been deleted and you may
> have been
> banned. People have used such words through out history with the
> excuse 'I'm on
> ly joking' to label and dehumanize others because they are
different.
> No such
> word or term is acceptable regardless of the context. Continued use
> of such
> terms just prevents them from dying out from the lexicon and, in
the
> end, makes
> them more acceptable.
> And Michael's attempt to enlighten you as to how objectionable and
> hurtful
> the term you used is to others; seems to have fallen on deaf ears.
>
>
> > Michael says in his most recent post "Part of the reason I still
> exist on this group is to see if you guys do say anything
interesting
> re POTA.
> If
> you ever do, be sure that I might consider opening that topic in
the
> DG. I
> don't see the harm, unless we are being childish and dwelling on
> things like
> "that's MY topic, how DARE you discuss that". I believe what
Michael
> means to
> say is "My POTA DG group is the only group that fans should go to."
> Michael
> denies it,
> >
>
> I love it when people put words in other people's mouths. It
usually
> means
> that they have no facts to back up their attacks so they have to
make
> stuff up.
> Why shouldn't Michael belong to whatever POTA groups he wants? I am
a
> member
> of several other POTA groups, including Planet of the Apes Zone and
> Mez's
> Friend & Fugitive group. It is a way to stay in touch with other
POTA
> fans who
> may
> not be members here. I'm sure many of the members here also belong
to
> one or
> more POTA groups. And if an interesting topic is discussed
elsewhere,
> what is
> the damage if it is brought up here as well? We don't have an
> objection if a
> topic here is discussed by another group.
>
>
> >but it's plain to me that he is one who has been attempting to
> sabotage the
> other POTA group by posting racial slurs and offensive gay remarks
> that are
> uncalled for. What he's trying to do is get people to leave that
> group for his
>
> OFFICIAL POTA DG GROUP and bump up his members there where he can
> slam the
> "radicals" of the "other" group as he calls it. This is just
another
> case, in
> my opinion, as someone once posted about Michael that he "starts
the
> fire and
> then puts it out so he can be the hero". Here, he assumes two new
> identities
> out of the blue in the "other" POTA group who join the group just
as
> our heated
> debate over the "Brent" contest is at it's peak, only because
Michael
> continued the war of words. The postings of "honorius" (or whoever)
> have no
> other
> purpose than to annoy people. So now Michael returns and as saviour
> of the POTA
>
> fans is promising to find out who these people are with all the
> vigour of a
> 1995 O.J. Simpson when he promised he wouldn't rest until
the "true"
> criminals
> were brought to justice when all along he was the bad guy. I can't
> prove it,
> but my money say's it Michael, that's how I see it.
> >
>
> Everyone is innocent until proven guilty. You're the second person
in
> as many
> days who has accused Michael of assuming an alternate identity. Of
> course,
> you present no evidence to back up your claim. I know for a fact
that
> Michael is
>
> very concerned about this Honorius person and feels he is being set-
> up.
>
>
> > I'm really sorry to have to say this Michael, but please, see
> better.
> As leader, more is expected of you, especially over something that
> should
> have been a non-issue like the "Brent" contest and the aftermath.
> Remember,
> you're supposed to be bringing people of the POTA fandom together,
> not forcing
> people out of your group.
> >
>
> No one has been forced out of this group. Jeff is still a member
here
> and
> banning him was never ever considered. Jeff does like to test our
> limits at
> times
> but we are glad to have him as a member of the group.
> The only people that are currently banned from this group are
> spammers which
> is done for the greater good of the group. LordTZer0 was banned
last
> summer
> mainly because several members contacted us privately and told us
> they would
> leave the group if he wasn't banned. Patrick Tilton has never been
> banned and is
>
> still welcome to join this group if he agrees to adhere to the
rules,
> but he
> refuses to do so.
> In fact for every person like Alex who leaves in a public tiff,
> several
> members have left or have fallen silent not because we have been
too
> strict but
> rather because they felt we were not strict enough feeling we had
> allowed
> certain
> disruptive elements and topics too much latitude in the group. As I
> said
> earlier, moderating such a large group is a balancing act and
> sometimes it is
> hard
> to make everyone happy.
>
>
> >Now Al, possibly the only guy with the best quality POTA cartoons,
> who
> offered them to us this month is gone.
> >
>
> Alex has been promising those Cartoon DVDs for a long time now. He
> first did
> so in the old group in 2002. He didn't come through then either.
> Don't get me
> wrong I like Alex but he has reneged on this offer before. I also
> find it odd
> that he left at the same time he decided to convert his website
> (www.techcomforces.com) from a POTA to a 'Lord of the Rings' site.
> As far as the reasons Alex for leaving, many members became
concerned
> when
> Alex started posting about the Israeli Mossad being after him. I'm
> not in a
> position to prove or disprove what Alex said but it alarmed enough
> members to
> have
> them request that he be moderated. One of Alex's posts had been
> deleted. It
> was a nasty flame against Rory. As the rules on the Yahoo Home page
> state,
> Flame wars between members are not allowed & All messages that
> violate the rules
>
> will me deleted. Anyone who joins this group agrees to those rules
and
> shouldn't complain when they are enforced.
> Alex also objected to the editing I did to one of his posts.
Several
> days
> earlier I had posted something flippant in regard to religion.
> Members that were
>
> offended by my post contacted me about it. I apologized to them and
> deleted
> said post. On Christmas Eve, when members were wishing each other a
> Merry
> Christmas; Alex posted a message that was derogatory to those with
> Christian
> religious beliefs. Thus it fell in to the category of a flame. I
> privately
> explained
> to Alex the reasons why the post was edited but he refused to
> understand.
> Again, all we did was enforce the stated rules of the group that
all
> members
> agree
> to when they join.
> If Alex decides to rejoin the group, he is more than welcome to. He
> was not
> forced out but left on his own. But if he does come back he will
have
> to adhere
> to the same rules that every other member does.
>
> > I've received other messages from members who aren't impressed
with
> all the
> attention the "Brent contest" is getting over the usual POTA
> discussion which
> these groups were designed for. Unlike Michael, I won't post the
> names or
> the contents of the messages to prove my point.
> >
>
> Funny I've been getting private messages from members too. They
feel
> we
> should have killed the 'Brent contest' long ago and urge us to not
> buckle under
> to
> the intimidation tactics now being employed by those in the old
group
> who are
> not even members of DG.
>
> > This message is going to both groups. This will be my final post
to
> the DG group, I am leaving it after I post this. I will remain with
> the
> "other" group only.
> >
>
>
> Well if you want to leave, it is your decision. But to blame
Michael
> for
> everything that you feel has gone wrong is simply unfair. Michael
is
> but one of
> three moderators in the DG group. Myself and Helen are the other
two
> moderators
> and we share the responsibility for whatever actions or mistakes
are
> made
> here.
>
> As far so the old group, it is unfair to blame Michael for it
falling
> apart.
> That group did it to itself. Michael didn't force anyone to leave
the
> old
> group and join DG. People did that freely because they were sick of
> the childish
>
> BS going on over there. Michael has never forced anyone to run to
the
> old group
> to complain about DG. Those that did, did so of their own accord
and
> some
> without even trying to work things the moderators here first. Just
> look at the
> old group, in the past year they barely averaged 200 messages per
> month. And
> most of those are attacks on Michael and the DG group.
>
> True, Michael does defend himself there when attacked which is his
> right. He
> was unfairly attacked once in Mez's group as well. Why should he
stay
> silent
> when people are unfairly vilifying him?
>
> Blaming Michael for all that is wrong in this situation is totally
> unfair.
> All you are doing is making him a scapegoat for those who refuse to
> take
> personal responsibility for their own actions, for those who think
it
> is their
> God
> given right to offend others but then complain when they are
shunned
> for it.
>
> Michael is not the terrible person you paint him to be. He is a
great
> POTA
> fan and someone I am proud to call a friend.

Hi James- Thanks for sending me this message that you also posted to the DG group. I'm posting this to the "old" group, as, at least for now, I'm not with the DG group, as you know. There's a lot of meat here for everyone in your message and I'd like to respond to some of what you're saying as well as a possible light to this "Brent is gay" tunnel we've been in for a lot longer than I thought.
My first suggestion is one that I made to myself weeks ago- don't post anything on the topic of "gay" under any circumstances any more. My off-the-cuff remark, a word you can see that I haven't used since, was a joke. I didn't mean to offend anyone and there's no prejudice hidden meaning when I say that. There are some gays who just wait for an opportunity like this to vindicate their lifestyle publicly and play the "gay card" if you will. From the bottom of my heart, it was a joke. On Will & Grace last night in the first few minutes of the show, Debra Messing says (as a joke) that gays don't go to heaven. If people were offended by my simple joke, I can only hazzard to guess how many phone calls and complaints NBC has taken since last night about Debra Messing's joke that gays don't go to heaven. I wonder how she gets away with it? She must not be allowed to post to any Yahoo Groups.
I've swapped messages with Jeff time to time and read a lot of his posts. I've never met him, but I don't perceive him as someone who would intentionally offend gays, either, based on his posts. He's done a lot for POTA, too.
I'm certainly not jealous of Michael and didn't want to leave DG. But I deserve the same defence he's giving the gays on the group. He's the vocal leader, this should be a level playing field. I've already said I won't post anything "gay" related again, that should be the end of any worries about my POTA posts.
No, Michael's not terrible as I pointed out to some people who e-mailed me after my post yesterday. I've made it clear that I don't "hate" Michael, we just have a disagreement.
Now the trick is finding mutual respect, let's talk me, Michael and yourself, James. I don't think Michael's going to apologize to me any more than I'm going to apologize for making my "vile" joke as you put it. Had I intended it to be hurtful and prejudice, I would have apologized no questions asked. We all have bad days, and as you say, too, we're all human.
This is at least the third time I've explained myself. I suggest we put this "Brent~gay" thing to rest once and for all and learn from it. The whole animosity that followed would have died on it's own.

Peace

Dan

>
> From: JamesA1102@...
> Date: 2004/01/02 Fri PM 01:05:57 EST
> To: potadg@yahoogroups.com
> CC: mystic4ever@...
> Subject: Response to Dan
>
> First, I'd like to apologize to all the members of DG for this. I know that
> many of you migrated here to escape the flame wars, general anarchy and
> immature BS of the old group. Unfortunately, even after a year there are still those
> in the old group who resent the existence and success of the DG group and
> will do whatever they can to disrupt things here.
>
> Normally, I would ignore and delete such a rant but there are several things
> that need to be said here. I have no personal animosity toward Dan but I feel
> that the record should be set straight.
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "mystic4ever" <mystic4ever@s...> wrote:
> > On page 6 of SIMIAN SCROLLS, SUMMER 2003 edition is a full > page
> article detailing Michael Whitty's OFFICIAL POTA FAN CLUB. One phrase that is
> used to describe what Michael is doing is "once and for all organizing the
> rag-tag legions out there into one group." Michael is the president/leader of this
> OFFICIAL POTA FAN CLUB and moderator of the POTA DG group. This
> self-appointed position puts a lot of responsibility on Michael as he relies on fans to
> identify themselves to him to hopefully one day accumulate enough names so that
> FOX will take interest, see the possible dollar signs and allow something
> special to be made available to the CLUB.
> >
>
> For the record, the only reason that Michael Whitty is in what you call a
> "self-appointed" position is that he took the initiative to contact FOX and get
> things moving. He is not content to sit around and wait for things to just
> happen. Michael is a dedicated
> POTA fan who has done more for POTA fandom in the last year than
> most of us (myself included) have done in our lifetime. He created
> this group, with me, to give mature POTA fans a safe haven to discuss POTA.
> It's success can be measured in the over 1000 posts a month as well as its
> rapidly growing membership which is
> now the biggest POTA group on Yahoo. Michael is also working to have Spanish
> POTA comics translated for fans, helped start a new POTA comic "Beware the
> Beast" and is in regular correspondence with FOX & Harper Collins about producing
> new POTA books & merchandise for fans. All this while working full time and
> being a loving husband & father to four beautiful daughters.
> Michael is a doer. Some people that just talk big are always
> jealous of doers. Michael deserves better. He deserves our support
> when unfairly attacked.
>
>
> > A good leader looks after all his followers (for lack of a better
> word). In this case, if people fall off the POTA wagon that Michael is driving,
> it's hurting his cause which in the end is our cause as fans, since we all
> enjoy something new on POTA.
> >
>
> Of course there are always people that jump off the wagon or are holding the
> rest back and get thrown off so the whole group can move forward. Just because
> someone is a fellow POTA fan doesn't mean we should have blind loyalty to
> them when their actions hurt the rest of the group.
>
> > As leader, Michael needs to keep the group of POTA fans together as one
> strong unit. I see the POTA group and the DG group has between 140-200 or so
> fans each. I can't believe the numbers are this low, there has to be more fans
> out there that either aren't aware of Michael's CLUB or are just older and not
> on the Internet. So, assuming Michael knows people outside the digital world
> who are members of the CLUB as well, he's representing a lot of us when he's
> talking with FOX or organizing his CLUB.
> >
>
> The numbers are even lower when you consider many are members of both groups.
> But Michael has done his best (and more than anyone else including me) to
> seek out POTA fans from around the globe. We should be praising him for this and
> not demonizing him for the few immature fans who've 'fallen off the wagon' as
> you put it.
>
>
> > While moderation is necessary, I am disappointed at Michael's
> inability as a leader to do the right thing when it came to the now infamous "Brent"
> contest that was offered to both groups and the circus that followed.
> >
>
> You're right moderation is necessary. When we formed this group a year ago
> the one thing most of the handful of original members wanted was a moderated
> forum with rules to prevent the anarchy which was seen as destroying the old
> group.
>
> As far as the infamous 'Brent' contest some things need to be set straight.
> Moderating a large diverse group is very difficult at times. Sometimes you are
> forced to make decisions for the greater good of the group that unfortunately
> penalize a single person. And sometimes you don't always make the right
> decision. In the case of Jeff's contest there were several factors we had to take
> into consideration.
>
> - When Jeff first brought up the 'Brent is Gay' thread last June, several
> members both publicly and privately stated they found the topic offensive. Anyone
> that cares to can read these posts at:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDGarchives/files/ArchiveJun03.doc
>
> - The topic was again brought up in July with the contest. At that time the
> stated goal was to 'save Brent's reputation'. Again several members both
> publicly and privately made it known that they found the topic and the flippant
> approach of the contest offensive.
>
> - It was brought it up again in early October. Again there were people that
> objected to it and Michael Whitty wrote the following to defend the topic.
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/message/9657 . Again we allowed the topic to
> run its natural course and die.
>
> - However, it brought it up once again in late November. And again other
> members let the moderators know they were offended.
>
> Thus, the topic was brought up several times and allowed to be discussed
> without interference despite both the public and private the objections of other
> members. In each case the topic ran the natural course of discussion. And in
> every case the objections of other members were openly discussed in the group
> and even Jeff acknowledged the objections
> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/message/9617). However, there came a point where any further discussion was
> simply beating a dead horse for the sake of it. The moderators discussed this
> and Michael was actually the strongest advocate for letting it continue.
> However, when we weighed all the pros and cons; we reluctantly decided that any
> further posts on this topic would be deleted.
>
> Afterwards we realized we had made a mistake since the deleted post was the
> conclusion of the topic. We also made a mistake by deleting it without
> discussing it with Jeff first and letting him know why. For that we apologize to Jeff.
> We are only human and make mistakes like everyone else. And Michael was the
> first one to admit our mistake and try to rectify the situation
> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/message/12287)
>
>
> > I'm one of the people who made an off-the-cuff remark, intended as a joke.
> I've mentioned my post to friends over the holidays and virtually all had a
> laugh at it and most followed up with "you probably shouldn't have said that",
> just as Michael pointed out in a follow up post. So an innocent joke got
> misinterpreted by a few people. Anyone that knows me or has read older posts of
> mine know that I have a sense of humour and in this case I unintentionally went
> overboard. Despite posting a retraction in which I explained myself,
> Michael, the leader of the OFFICIAL POTA CLUB saw fit to not only jump on my
> followup and dismiss it, but hint that I'm a racist and also (according to Michael)
> poll some of the people who I supposedly offended and post the results of how
> bad a human being I am to the group. I was also called "stupid" by whoever
> Michael supposedly questioned. I posted a second followup, again explaining
> myself and that I meant no harm. There were other explanations posted about the
> contest, but Michael still would not let it go as what I believe a good leader,
> representing the fans of POTA should have done.
> >
>
> I've seen the post mentioned and the vile term you used. If you used such a
> word in the DG Group, the post would have been deleted and you may have been
> banned. People have used such words through out history with the excuse 'I'm on
> ly joking' to label and dehumanize others because they are different. No such
> word or term is acceptable regardless of the context. Continued use of such
> terms just prevents them from dying out from the lexicon and, in the end, makes
> them more acceptable.
> And Michael's attempt to enlighten you as to how objectionable and hurtful
> the term you used is to others; seems to have fallen on deaf ears.
>
>
> > Michael says in his most recent post "Part of the reason I still
> exist on this group is to see if you guys do say anything interesting re POTA. If
> you ever do, be sure that I might consider opening that topic in the DG. I
> don't see the harm, unless we are being childish and dwelling on things like
> "that's MY topic, how DARE you discuss that". I believe what Michael means to
> say is "My POTA DG group is the only group that fans should go to." Michael
> denies it,
> >
>
> I love it when people put words in other people's mouths. It usually means
> that they have no facts to back up their attacks so they have to make stuff up.
> Why shouldn't Michael belong to whatever POTA groups he wants? I am a member
> of several other POTA groups, including Planet of the Apes Zone and Mez's
> Friend & Fugitive group. It is a way to stay in touch with other POTA fans who may
> not be members here. I'm sure many of the members here also belong to one or
> more POTA groups. And if an interesting topic is discussed elsewhere, what is
> the damage if it is brought up here as well? We don't have an objection if a
> topic here is discussed by another group.
>
>
> >but it's plain to me that he is one who has been attempting to sabotage the
> other POTA group by posting racial slurs and offensive gay remarks that are
> uncalled for. What he's trying to do is get people to leave that group for his
> OFFICIAL POTA DG GROUP and bump up his members there where he can slam the
> "radicals" of the "other" group as he calls it. This is just another case, in
> my opinion, as someone once posted about Michael that he "starts the fire and
> then puts it out so he can be the hero". Here, he assumes two new identities
> out of the blue in the "other" POTA group who join the group just as our heated
> debate over the "Brent" contest is at it's peak, only because Michael
> continued the war of words. The postings of "honorius" (or whoever) have no other
> purpose than to annoy people. So now Michael returns and as saviour of the POTA
> fans is promising to find out who these people are with all the vigour of a
> 1995 O.J. Simpson when he promised he wouldn't rest until the "true" criminals
> were brought to justice when all along he was the bad guy. I can't prove it,
> but my money say's it Michael, that's how I see it.
> >
>
> Everyone is innocent until proven guilty. You're the second person in as many
> days who has accused Michael of assuming an alternate identity. Of course,
> you present no evidence to back up your claim. I know for a fact that Michael is
> very concerned about this Honorius person and feels he is being set-up.
>
>
> > I'm really sorry to have to say this Michael, but please, see better.
> As leader, more is expected of you, especially over something that should
> have been a non-issue like the "Brent" contest and the aftermath. Remember,
> you're supposed to be bringing people of the POTA fandom together, not forcing
> people out of your group.
> >
>
> No one has been forced out of this group. Jeff is still a member here and
> banning him was never ever considered. Jeff does like to test our limits at times
> but we are glad to have him as a member of the group.
> The only people that are currently banned from this group are spammers which
> is done for the greater good of the group. LordTZer0 was banned last summer
> mainly because several members contacted us privately and told us they would
> leave the group if he wasn't banned. Patrick Tilton has never been banned and is
> still welcome to join this group if he agrees to adhere to the rules, but he
> refuses to do so.
> In fact for every person like Alex who leaves in a public tiff, several
> members have left or have fallen silent not because we have been too strict but
> rather because they felt we were not strict enough feeling we had allowed certain
> disruptive elements and topics too much latitude in the group. As I said
> earlier, moderating such a large group is a balancing act and sometimes it is hard
> to make everyone happy.
>
>
> >Now Al, possibly the only guy with the best quality POTA cartoons, who
> offered them to us this month is gone.
> >
>
> Alex has been promising those Cartoon DVDs for a long time now. He first did
> so in the old group in 2002. He didn't come through then either. Don't get me
> wrong I like Alex but he has reneged on this offer before. I also find it odd
> that he left at the same time he decided to convert his website
> (www.techcomforces.com) from a POTA to a 'Lord of the Rings' site.
> As far as the reasons Alex for leaving, many members became concerned when
> Alex started posting about the Israeli Mossad being after him. I'm not in a
> position to prove or disprove what Alex said but it alarmed enough members to have
> them request that he be moderated. One of Alex's posts had been deleted. It
> was a nasty flame against Rory. As the rules on the Yahoo Home page state,
> Flame wars between members are not allowed & All messages that violate the rules
> will me deleted. Anyone who joins this group agrees to those rules and
> shouldn't complain when they are enforced.
> Alex also objected to the editing I did to one of his posts. Several days
> earlier I had posted something flippant in regard to religion. Members that were
> offended by my post contacted me about it. I apologized to them and deleted
> said post. On Christmas Eve, when members were wishing each other a Merry
> Christmas; Alex posted a message that was derogatory to those with Christian
> religious beliefs. Thus it fell in to the category of a flame. I privately explained
> to Alex the reasons why the post was edited but he refused to understand.
> Again, all we did was enforce the stated rules of the group that all members agree
> to when they join.
> If Alex decides to rejoin the group, he is more than welcome to. He was not
> forced out but left on his own. But if he does come back he will have to adhere
> to the same rules that every other member does.
>
> > I've received other messages from members who aren't impressed with all the
> attention the "Brent contest" is getting over the usual POTA discussion which
> these groups were designed for. Unlike Michael, I won't post the names or
> the contents of the messages to prove my point.
> >
>
> Funny I've been getting private messages from members too. They feel we
> should have killed the 'Brent contest' long ago and urge us to not buckle under to
> the intimidation tactics now being employed by those in the old group who are
> not even members of DG.
>
> > This message is going to both groups. This will be my final post to
> the DG group, I am leaving it after I post this. I will remain with the
> "other" group only.
> >
>
>
> Well if you want to leave, it is your decision. But to blame Michael for
> everything that you feel has gone wrong is simply unfair. Michael is but one of
> three moderators in the DG group. Myself and Helen are the other two moderators
> and we share the responsibility for whatever actions or mistakes are made
> here.
>
> As far so the old group, it is unfair to blame Michael for it falling apart.
> That group did it to itself. Michael didn't force anyone to leave the old
> group and join DG. People did that freely because they were sick of the childish
> BS going on over there. Michael has never forced anyone to run to the old group
> to complain about DG. Those that did, did so of their own accord and some
> without even trying to work things the moderators here first. Just look at the
> old group, in the past year they barely averaged 200 messages per month. And
> most of those are attacks on Michael and the DG group.
>
> True, Michael does defend himself there when attacked which is his right. He
> was unfairly attacked once in Mez's group as well. Why should he stay silent
> when people are unfairly vilifying him?
>
> Blaming Michael for all that is wrong in this situation is totally unfair.
> All you are doing is making him a scapegoat for those who refuse to take
> personal responsibility for their own actions, for those who think it is their God
> given right to offend others but then complain when they are shunned for it.
>
> Michael is not the terrible person you paint him to be. He is a great POTA
> fan and someone I am proud to call a friend.
>
>

Thanks, Greg. I just posted it here as well along with my response.
I hope we're at or near the end of this thing. Not everyone's sense
of humour is the same and tolerance breeds tolerance. As you'll read
(or have read) no more mention of "gay" or gay humour will come from
me. I see and tolerate James & Michael's side. If they see and
tolerate mine, we should be at peace here.

Dan



-- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "greg" <gbharris1@y...> wrote:

> This is a post that James did in the DG in response to Dan's post
> about Whitty and leaving the group. It is not intended to stir
> things up but rather to explain a lot of things about what's been
> going on. Maybe some of you might fine this interesting. Please
> read.
>
> Peace,
>
> Greg#2
>
>
> First, I'd like to apologize to all the members of DG for this. I
> know that
> many of you migrated here to escape the flame wars, general anarchy
> and
> immature BS of the old group. Unfortunately, even after a year

there

> are still
> those
> in the old group who resent the existence and success of the DG

group

> and
> will do whatever they can to disrupt things here.
>
> Normally, I would ignore and delete such a rant but there are

several

> things
> that need to be said here. I have no personal animosity toward Dan
> but I feel
> that the record should be set straight.
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "mystic4ever" <mystic4ever@s...>

wrote:

> > On page 6 of SIMIAN SCROLLS, SUMMER 2003 edition is a full > page
> article detailing Michael Whitty's OFFICIAL POTA FAN CLUB. One

phrase

> that is
> used to describe what Michael is doing is "once and for all
> organizing the
> rag-tag legions out there into one group." Michael is the
> president/leader of
> this
> OFFICIAL POTA FAN CLUB and moderator of the POTA DG group. This
> self-appointed position puts a lot of responsibility on Michael as

he

> relies on
> fans to
> identify themselves to him to hopefully one day accumulate enough
> names so that
> FOX will take interest, see the possible dollar signs and allow
> something
> special to be made available to the CLUB.
> >
>
> For the record, the only reason that Michael Whitty is in what you
> call a
> "self-appointed" position is that he took the initiative to contact
> FOX and get
> things moving. He is not content to sit around and wait for things

to

> just
> happen. Michael is a dedicated
> POTA fan who has done more for POTA fandom in the last year than
> most of us (myself included) have done in our lifetime. He created
> this group, with me, to give mature POTA fans a safe haven to

discuss

> POTA.
> It's success can be measured in the over 1000 posts a month as well
> as its
> rapidly growing membership which is
> now the biggest POTA group on Yahoo. Michael is also working to

have

> Spanish
> POTA comics translated for fans, helped start a new POTA
> comic "Beware the
> Beast" and is in regular correspondence with FOX & Harper Collins
> about
> producing
> new POTA books & merchandise for fans. All this while working full
> time and
> being a loving husband & father to four beautiful daughters.
> Michael is a doer. Some people that just talk big are always
> jealous of doers. Michael deserves better. He deserves our support
> when unfairly attacked.
>
>
> > A good leader looks after all his followers (for lack of a better
> word). In this case, if people fall off the POTA wagon that Michael
> is driving,
>
> it's hurting his cause which in the end is our cause as fans, since
> we all
> enjoy something new on POTA.
> >
>
> Of course there are always people that jump off the wagon or are
> holding the
> rest back and get thrown off so the whole group can move forward.
> Just because
> someone is a fellow POTA fan doesn't mean we should have blind
> loyalty to
> them when their actions hurt the rest of the group.
>
> > As leader, Michael needs to keep the group of POTA fans together

as

> one
> strong unit. I see the POTA group and the DG group has between 140-
> 200 or so
> fans each. I can't believe the numbers are this low, there has to

be

> more fans
> out there that either aren't aware of Michael's CLUB or are just
> older and not
> on the Internet. So, assuming Michael knows people outside the
> digital world
> who are members of the CLUB as well, he's representing a lot of us
> when he's
> talking with FOX or organizing his CLUB.
> >
>
> The numbers are even lower when you consider many are members of

both

> groups.
> But Michael has done his best (and more than anyone else including
> me) to
> seek out POTA fans from around the globe. We should be praising him
> for this and
>
> not demonizing him for the few immature fans who've 'fallen off the
> wagon' as
> you put it.
>
>
> > While moderation is necessary, I am disappointed at Michael's
> inability as a leader to do the right thing when it came to the now
> infamous
> "Brent"
> contest that was offered to both groups and the circus that

followed.

> >
>
> You're right moderation is necessary. When we formed this group a
> year ago
> the one thing most of the handful of original members wanted was a
> moderated
> forum with rules to prevent the anarchy which was seen as

destroying

> the old
> group.
>
> As far as the infamous 'Brent' contest some things need to be set
> straight.
> Moderating a large diverse group is very difficult at times.
> Sometimes you are
> forced to make decisions for the greater good of the group that
> unfortunately
> penalize a single person. And sometimes you don't always make the
> right
> decision. In the case of Jeff's contest there were several factors

we

> had to
> take
> into consideration.
>
> - When Jeff first brought up the 'Brent is Gay' thread last June,
> several
> members both publicly and privately stated they found the topic
> offensive.
> Anyone
> that cares to can read these posts at:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDGarchives/files/ArchiveJun03.doc
>
> - The topic was again brought up in July with the contest. At that
> time the
> stated goal was to 'save Brent's reputation'. Again several members
> both
> publicly and privately made it known that they found the topic and
> the flippant
> approach of the contest offensive.
>
> - It was brought it up again in early October. Again there were
> people that
> objected to it and Michael Whitty wrote the following to defend the
> topic.
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/message/9657 . Again we

allowed

> the topic
> to
> run its natural course and die.
>
> - However, it brought it up once again in late November. And again
> other
> members let the moderators know they were offended.
>
> Thus, the topic was brought up several times and allowed to be
> discussed
> without interference despite both the public and private the
> objections of other
>
> members. In each case the topic ran the natural course of

discussion.

> And in
> every case the objections of other members were openly discussed in
> the group
> and even Jeff acknowledged the objections
> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/message/9617). However, there
> came a point
> where any further discussion was
> simply beating a dead horse for the sake of it. The moderators
> discussed this
> and Michael was actually the strongest advocate for letting it
> continue.
> However, when we weighed all the pros and cons; we reluctantly
> decided that any
> further posts on this topic would be deleted.
>
> Afterwards we realized we had made a mistake since the deleted post
> was the
> conclusion of the topic. We also made a mistake by deleting it

without

> discussing it with Jeff first and letting him know why. For that we
> apologize to
> Jeff.
> We are only human and make mistakes like everyone else. And Michael
> was the
> first one to admit our mistake and try to rectify the situation
> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/message/12287)
>
>
> > I'm one of the people who made an off-the-cuff remark, intended

as

> a joke.
> I've mentioned my post to friends over the holidays and virtually

all

> had a
> laugh at it and most followed up with "you probably shouldn't have
> said that",
> just as Michael pointed out in a follow up post. So an innocent

joke

> got
> misinterpreted by a few people. Anyone that knows me or has read
> older posts of
>
> mine know that I have a sense of humour and in this case I
> unintentionally went
> overboard. Despite posting a retraction in which I explained myself,
> Michael, the leader of the OFFICIAL POTA CLUB saw fit to not only
> jump on my
> followup and dismiss it, but hint that I'm a racist and also
> (according to
> Michael)
> poll some of the people who I supposedly offended and post the
> results of how
> bad a human being I am to the group. I was also called "stupid" by
> whoever
> Michael supposedly questioned. I posted a second followup, again
> explaining
> myself and that I meant no harm. There were other explanations

posted

> about the
>
> contest, but Michael still would not let it go as what I believe a
> good leader,
> representing the fans of POTA should have done.
> >
>
> I've seen the post mentioned and the vile term you used. If you

used

> such a
> word in the DG Group, the post would have been deleted and you may
> have been
> banned. People have used such words through out history with the
> excuse 'I'm on
> ly joking' to label and dehumanize others because they are

different.

> No such
> word or term is acceptable regardless of the context. Continued use
> of such
> terms just prevents them from dying out from the lexicon and, in

the

> end, makes
> them more acceptable.
> And Michael's attempt to enlighten you as to how objectionable and
> hurtful
> the term you used is to others; seems to have fallen on deaf ears.
>
>
> > Michael says in his most recent post "Part of the reason I still
> exist on this group is to see if you guys do say anything

interesting

> re POTA.
> If
> you ever do, be sure that I might consider opening that topic in

the

> DG. I
> don't see the harm, unless we are being childish and dwelling on
> things like
> "that's MY topic, how DARE you discuss that". I believe what

Michael

> means to
> say is "My POTA DG group is the only group that fans should go to."
> Michael
> denies it,
> >
>
> I love it when people put words in other people's mouths. It

usually

> means
> that they have no facts to back up their attacks so they have to

make

> stuff up.
> Why shouldn't Michael belong to whatever POTA groups he wants? I am

a

> member
> of several other POTA groups, including Planet of the Apes Zone and
> Mez's
> Friend & Fugitive group. It is a way to stay in touch with other

POTA

> fans who
> may
> not be members here. I'm sure many of the members here also belong

to

> one or
> more POTA groups. And if an interesting topic is discussed

elsewhere,

> what is
> the damage if it is brought up here as well? We don't have an
> objection if a
> topic here is discussed by another group.
>
>
> >but it's plain to me that he is one who has been attempting to
> sabotage the
> other POTA group by posting racial slurs and offensive gay remarks
> that are
> uncalled for. What he's trying to do is get people to leave that
> group for his
>
> OFFICIAL POTA DG GROUP and bump up his members there where he can
> slam the
> "radicals" of the "other" group as he calls it. This is just

another

> case, in
> my opinion, as someone once posted about Michael that he "starts

the

> fire and
> then puts it out so he can be the hero". Here, he assumes two new
> identities
> out of the blue in the "other" POTA group who join the group just

as

> our heated
> debate over the "Brent" contest is at it's peak, only because

Michael

> continued the war of words. The postings of "honorius" (or whoever)
> have no
> other
> purpose than to annoy people. So now Michael returns and as saviour
> of the POTA
>
> fans is promising to find out who these people are with all the
> vigour of a
> 1995 O.J. Simpson when he promised he wouldn't rest until

the "true"

> criminals
> were brought to justice when all along he was the bad guy. I can't
> prove it,
> but my money say's it Michael, that's how I see it.
> >
>
> Everyone is innocent until proven guilty. You're the second person

in

> as many
> days who has accused Michael of assuming an alternate identity. Of
> course,
> you present no evidence to back up your claim. I know for a fact

that

> Michael is
>
> very concerned about this Honorius person and feels he is being set-
> up.
>
>
> > I'm really sorry to have to say this Michael, but please, see
> better.
> As leader, more is expected of you, especially over something that
> should
> have been a non-issue like the "Brent" contest and the aftermath.
> Remember,
> you're supposed to be bringing people of the POTA fandom together,
> not forcing
> people out of your group.
> >
>
> No one has been forced out of this group. Jeff is still a member

here

> and
> banning him was never ever considered. Jeff does like to test our
> limits at
> times
> but we are glad to have him as a member of the group.
> The only people that are currently banned from this group are
> spammers which
> is done for the greater good of the group. LordTZer0 was banned

last

> summer
> mainly because several members contacted us privately and told us
> they would
> leave the group if he wasn't banned. Patrick Tilton has never been
> banned and is
>
> still welcome to join this group if he agrees to adhere to the

rules,

> but he
> refuses to do so.
> In fact for every person like Alex who leaves in a public tiff,
> several
> members have left or have fallen silent not because we have been

too

> strict but
> rather because they felt we were not strict enough feeling we had
> allowed
> certain
> disruptive elements and topics too much latitude in the group. As I
> said
> earlier, moderating such a large group is a balancing act and
> sometimes it is
> hard
> to make everyone happy.
>
>
> >Now Al, possibly the only guy with the best quality POTA cartoons,
> who
> offered them to us this month is gone.
> >
>
> Alex has been promising those Cartoon DVDs for a long time now. He
> first did
> so in the old group in 2002. He didn't come through then either.
> Don't get me
> wrong I like Alex but he has reneged on this offer before. I also
> find it odd
> that he left at the same time he decided to convert his website
> (www.techcomforces.com) from a POTA to a 'Lord of the Rings' site.
> As far as the reasons Alex for leaving, many members became

concerned

> when
> Alex started posting about the Israeli Mossad being after him. I'm
> not in a
> position to prove or disprove what Alex said but it alarmed enough
> members to
> have
> them request that he be moderated. One of Alex's posts had been
> deleted. It
> was a nasty flame against Rory. As the rules on the Yahoo Home page
> state,
> Flame wars between members are not allowed & All messages that
> violate the rules
>
> will me deleted. Anyone who joins this group agrees to those rules

and

> shouldn't complain when they are enforced.
> Alex also objected to the editing I did to one of his posts.

Several

> days
> earlier I had posted something flippant in regard to religion.
> Members that were
>
> offended by my post contacted me about it. I apologized to them and
> deleted
> said post. On Christmas Eve, when members were wishing each other a
> Merry
> Christmas; Alex posted a message that was derogatory to those with
> Christian
> religious beliefs. Thus it fell in to the category of a flame. I
> privately
> explained
> to Alex the reasons why the post was edited but he refused to
> understand.
> Again, all we did was enforce the stated rules of the group that

all

> members
> agree
> to when they join.
> If Alex decides to rejoin the group, he is more than welcome to. He
> was not
> forced out but left on his own. But if he does come back he will

have

> to adhere
> to the same rules that every other member does.
>
> > I've received other messages from members who aren't impressed

with

> all the
> attention the "Brent contest" is getting over the usual POTA
> discussion which
> these groups were designed for. Unlike Michael, I won't post the
> names or
> the contents of the messages to prove my point.
> >
>
> Funny I've been getting private messages from members too. They

feel

> we
> should have killed the 'Brent contest' long ago and urge us to not
> buckle under
> to
> the intimidation tactics now being employed by those in the old

group

> who are
> not even members of DG.
>
> > This message is going to both groups. This will be my final post

to

> the DG group, I am leaving it after I post this. I will remain with
> the
> "other" group only.
> >
>
>
> Well if you want to leave, it is your decision. But to blame

Michael

> for
> everything that you feel has gone wrong is simply unfair. Michael

is

> but one of
> three moderators in the DG group. Myself and Helen are the other

two

> moderators
> and we share the responsibility for whatever actions or mistakes

are

> made
> here.
>
> As far so the old group, it is unfair to blame Michael for it

falling

> apart.
> That group did it to itself. Michael didn't force anyone to leave

the

> old
> group and join DG. People did that freely because they were sick of
> the childish
>
> BS going on over there. Michael has never forced anyone to run to

the

> old group
> to complain about DG. Those that did, did so of their own accord

and

> some
> without even trying to work things the moderators here first. Just
> look at the
> old group, in the past year they barely averaged 200 messages per
> month. And
> most of those are attacks on Michael and the DG group.
>
> True, Michael does defend himself there when attacked which is his
> right. He
> was unfairly attacked once in Mez's group as well. Why should he

stay

> silent
> when people are unfairly vilifying him?
>
> Blaming Michael for all that is wrong in this situation is totally
> unfair.
> All you are doing is making him a scapegoat for those who refuse to
> take
> personal responsibility for their own actions, for those who think

it

> is their
> God
> given right to offend others but then complain when they are

shunned

> for it.
>
> Michael is not the terrible person you paint him to be. He is a

great

> POTA
> fan and someone I am proud to call a friend.