Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
pota group:

Who would make a better Commander &
Chief of the military?

o Ursus
o Urko


To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/surveys?id=1447864

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "sparkytb2005" <sparkytb@h...>
wrote:

> In my business I have film crews going out to that part of the

world all the time. Maybe one day this stay-at-home-editor will
be able to blag a trip with them....

If the crew need an official boat rower give me a call!

Didn't I read somewhere that enviromentalists are trying to get
the damn dismantled? Any news on that?

Dave B

In a message dated 10/13/04 11:09:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
sparkytb@... writes:

> +++ Dave -- the section "How to find the crash site at Lake Powell"
> is, I think, a thing of beauty.
>
> In my business I have film crews going out to that part of the world
> all the time. Maybe one day this stay-at-home-editor will be able
> to blag a trip with them....
>
> Mark T-B
>

I was there in both 1987 and '91. I can't really recommend going, as it
spoils the mystic of the film.

-- Rory


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 10/14/04 3:11:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
dave@... writes:

> Didn't I read somewhere that enviromentalists are trying to get
> the dam dismantled? Any news on that?
>
> Dave B
>

They've been trying to do that for years. I agree that the dam shouldn't
have been built, but it's done now.

-- Rory


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:

>
> In a message dated 10/13/04 11:09:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> sparkytb@h... writes:
>
>
> > +++ Dave -- the section "How to find the crash site at Lake

Powell"

> > is, I think, a thing of beauty.
> >
> > In my business I have film crews going out to that part of the

world

> > all the time. Maybe one day this stay-at-home-editor will be

able

> > to blag a trip with them....
> >
> > Mark T-B
> >
>
> I was there in both 1987 and '91. I can't really recommend going,

as it

> spoils the mystic of the film.
>
> -- Rory
>

++++ Yeah... but isn't it a beautiful place? I've always wanted to
see it.

Mark T-B.

Welcome to the Planet of the Apes...Come on in and check us out, and
post...

Glen

Warner Bros. is producing a CGI animated film called "Ant Bully", starring the voice of Julia Roberts. Also in the announced cast is Paul Giamatti (Limbo) in what, as far as I know, is his first animal role since POTA2001. He'll be joined in voice by a member of POTA Old School, Ricardo Montalban.
The story is based on John Nickle's children's book, about a boy who messes with an ant colony using his water gun. He ends up shrunk to ant size and the ants force him to do hard labor in their colony. Sounds kinda like a POTA spin, a human in a talking animal society. - - - Jeff


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I see most people went with Mid-19th Century America. I've always
felt myself that the Apes were pretty sophisticated just not
technological.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, pota@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
> The following pota poll is now closed. Here are the
> final results:
>
>
> POLL QUESTION: At what level of technology had the
> Apes in Planet & Beneath achieved?
>
> CHOICES AND RESULTS
> - Encient Egypt, Greece & Rom, 0 votes, 0.00%
> - The Middle Ages, 3 votes, 30.00%
> - The Renaissance, 1 votes, 10.00%
> - 18th Century Europe, 0 votes, 0.00%
> - Mid-19th Century America, 6 votes, 60.00%
>
>

Thanks Dave. I always thought that there was more to Taylor's ship
then seen on the screen. What was behind the door the water is
coming through? How much of the ship is below the lake for the top
part to be at such a high angle?
In Beneath there seems to be more to the ship expect is was
destroyed on landing.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Dave B" <dave@4...> wrote:
>
>
> The following website has updated since my last visit. For fans
> of Taylor's spacecraft it's well worth a look.
>
> <http://www.cloudster.com/Sets&Vehicles/ApesShip/PofA01.html"
> >
>
> Dave B

For fans of the TV series, group member Mark Rogers has added the TV
series bible to his CENTRAL CITY ARCHIVES website:
http://www.hadleyburg.demon.co.uk/patv/pxfc.htm

It is an interesting read and shows some of the directions the
series may have taken if it had not been canceled. Unfortunately, it
doesn't answer the question of if the TV series is in the same
universe as the movies.

For the most part it avoids any reference to the films nor sets up
any writing guidelines based on what was established in them (i.e.
the plague on dog & cat, an ape named the Lawgiver who wrote the
Sacred Scrolls). On the other hand it doesn't say the series is to
be unrelated to the movies either.

My personal theory has always been that the producers hadn't made
the decision and were trying to play it both ways. Letting the
series develop in its own direction before deciding which way to go.

Since the series takes place on the West Coast and all the movies
but Escape are on the East Coast, the series may be considered in
the same universe without disturbing the continuity of the films if
one wishes to look at it that way. Its one of the reasons we've
included the TV series as part of the interactive timeline on the
group's internal website.

Yeah, but while they had guns, did they have the printing press or any
method of agricultural mechanization? If they were mid-19th century America,
they'd be along the road to developing advanced transportation methods like
rail, as well as starting to lay the groundwork for understanding processes
like chemistry or electricity.

I'd put them somewhere between the Black Death and early Renaissance Europe
(say mid-15th century, pre-Columbus) for several reasons:
1) They would adapt technology that might be useful for them, but there
limits to what they DIDN'T want to do. There was no apparent interest in
astronomy, physics, or chemistry, but they had "advanced" knowledge of
biology
2) Most of their "advanced" technology was salvaged from the ruins of human
civilization (guns, wagons, artillery), not invented. This was similar to
what Medieval Europe did with Islamic civilization or China, although the
origin was clearly forgotten by all but the "guardians of the terrible
secret"
3) No initial curiousity about the outside world, but it was starting to
develop due to the need for "new feeding grounds"
4) A monolithic, hierarchical religious world-view, with reliance on the
Lawgiver to tell all in "scripture" via the Sacred Scrolls
5) Persecution of heretics for non-standard thinking
6) Existence of a middle-class "bourgeoise" via the chimps, but no real
power exerted by them in the traditional orangutan/gorilla-driven power
structure
7) Last, but not least: use of a slave structure, with no conception of
"human rights" for their primitive human slaves

Just my $0.02.

Stuart
_____

From: James [JamesA1102@...]
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 11:41 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Poll results for pota




I see most people went with Mid-19th Century America. I've always
felt myself that the Apes were pretty sophisticated just not
technological.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, pota@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
> The following pota poll is now closed. Here are the
> final results:
>
>
> POLL QUESTION: At what level of technology had the
> Apes in Planet & Beneath achieved?
>
> CHOICES AND RESULTS
> - Encient Egypt, Greece & Rom, 0 votes, 0.00%
> - The Middle Ages, 3 votes, 30.00%
> - The Renaissance, 1 votes, 10.00%
> - 18th Century Europe, 0 votes, 0.00%
> - Mid-19th Century America, 6 votes, 60.00%
>
>









Be sure to visit the Group's Internal Website
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/MainPage.htm for Original POTA One
Sheets & Lobby Cards, Trailers & Rare Videos, Trading Cards and much, much
more...







<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12990ojep/M=288055.5499757.6577723.2004029/D=gr
oups/S=1705021437:HM/EXP=1097946471/A=2193924/R=0/SIG=12h9oogn4/*http://stor
e.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/clink?yhst-56407110520241+nsXvzK+icopydvds2.htmlgt; click
here

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<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Stuart Drucker" <sdrucker@p...> wrote:

>> I'd put them somewhere between the Black Death and early

Renaissance Europe (say mid-15th century, pre-Columbus) > Stuart

>

Hi Stuart,
Very well-thought out and convincing argument. I've always felt that
the show had a "Western" and therefore late 19th century feel to it,
but your explanation for early Renaissance European-type
civilization is quite compelling.
Menluth.

It does mention Dr. Hasslein's theory, so that provides ammunition that
it's the same universe as the films. Bill Blake says when the series was
struggling they considered moving it closer to the movies, including having
a Zira and Cornelius (which Bill auditioned for, in Gene Roddenberry's
house). Mostly, I don't think the movies were readily available for study
then. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "James" <JamesA1102@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 10:06 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] TV series bible


>
>
>
> For fans of the TV series, group member Mark Rogers has added the TV
> series bible to his CENTRAL CITY ARCHIVES website:
> http://www.hadleyburg.demon.co.uk/patv/pxfc.htm
>
> It is an interesting read and shows some of the directions the
> series may have taken if it had not been canceled. Unfortunately, it
> doesn't answer the question of if the TV series is in the same
> universe as the movies.
>
> For the most part it avoids any reference to the films nor sets up
> any writing guidelines based on what was established in them (i.e.
> the plague on dog & cat, an ape named the Lawgiver who wrote the
> Sacred Scrolls). On the other hand it doesn't say the series is to
> be unrelated to the movies either.
>
> My personal theory has always been that the producers hadn't made
> the decision and were trying to play it both ways. Letting the
> series develop in its own direction before deciding which way to go.
>
> Since the series takes place on the West Coast and all the movies
> but Escape are on the East Coast, the series may be considered in
> the same universe without disturbing the continuity of the films if
> one wishes to look at it that way. Its one of the reasons we've
> included the TV series as part of the interactive timeline on the
> group's internal website.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Be sure to visit the Group's Internal Website
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/MainPage.htm for Original POTA One
Sheets & Lobby Cards, Trailers & Rare Videos, Trading Cards and much, much
more...
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

The society is obviously based on ancient Greece and Rome. The more modern
stuff (of which there isn't much) are hand - me - downs from the human
civilization. I don't see any 19th Century in it. I think it's a play on
ancient times and the "Ben Hur"/ "10 Commandments" movies Heston was famous
for. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stuart Drucker" <sdrucker@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 11:07 AM
Subject: RE: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Poll results for pota


>
>
> Yeah, but while they had guns, did they have the printing press or any
> method of agricultural mechanization? If they were mid-19th century
America,
> they'd be along the road to developing advanced transportation methods
like
> rail, as well as starting to lay the groundwork for understanding
processes
> like chemistry or electricity.
>
> I'd put them somewhere between the Black Death and early Renaissance
Europe
> (say mid-15th century, pre-Columbus) for several reasons:
> 1) They would adapt technology that might be useful for them, but there
> limits to what they DIDN'T want to do. There was no apparent interest in
> astronomy, physics, or chemistry, but they had "advanced" knowledge of
> biology
> 2) Most of their "advanced" technology was salvaged from the ruins of
human
> civilization (guns, wagons, artillery), not invented. This was similar to
> what Medieval Europe did with Islamic civilization or China, although the
> origin was clearly forgotten by all but the "guardians of the terrible
> secret"
> 3) No initial curiousity about the outside world, but it was starting to
> develop due to the need for "new feeding grounds"
> 4) A monolithic, hierarchical religious world-view, with reliance on the
> Lawgiver to tell all in "scripture" via the Sacred Scrolls
> 5) Persecution of heretics for non-standard thinking
> 6) Existence of a middle-class "bourgeoise" via the chimps, but no real
> power exerted by them in the traditional orangutan/gorilla-driven power
> structure
> 7) Last, but not least: use of a slave structure, with no conception of
> "human rights" for their primitive human slaves
>
> Just my $0.02.
>
> Stuart
> _____
>
> From: James [JamesA1102@...]
> Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 11:41 AM
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Poll results for pota
>
>
>
>
> I see most people went with Mid-19th Century America. I've always
> felt myself that the Apes were pretty sophisticated just not
> technological.
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, pota@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> >
> > The following pota poll is now closed. Here are the
> > final results:
> >
> >
> > POLL QUESTION: At what level of technology had the
> > Apes in Planet & Beneath achieved?
> >
> > CHOICES AND RESULTS
> > - Encient Egypt, Greece & Rom, 0 votes, 0.00%
> > - The Middle Ages, 3 votes, 30.00%
> > - The Renaissance, 1 votes, 10.00%
> > - 18th Century Europe, 0 votes, 0.00%
> > - Mid-19th Century America, 6 votes, 60.00%
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Be sure to visit the Group's Internal Website
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/MainPage.htm for Original POTA
One
> Sheets & Lobby Cards, Trailers & Rare Videos, Trading Cards and much, much
> more...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12990ojep/M=288055.5499757.6577723.2004029/D=gr
>
oups/S=1705021437:HM/EXP=1097946471/A=2193924/R=0/SIG=12h9oogn4/*http://stor
> e.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/clink?yhst-56407110520241+nsXvzK+icopydvds2.htmlgt;
click
> here
>
>
<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=288055.5499757.6577723.2004029/D=groups/S=
> :HM/A=2193924/rand=182931010>
>
> _____
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/
>
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> pota-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:pota-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Be sure to visit the Group's Internal Website
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/MainPage.htm for Original POTA One
Sheets & Lobby Cards, Trailers & Rare Videos, Trading Cards and much, much
more...
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "James" <JamesA1102@a...> wrote:

>
>
> For fans of the TV series, group member Mark Rogers has added the

TV series bible to his CENTRAL CITY ARCHIVES website:

> http://www.hadleyburg.demon.co.uk/patv/pxfc.htm
>

Wow! I had no idea that there was a 'bible' for the TV series. I
think we have questioned here before whether there had been one, but
that none had turned up anywhere. Where did this writers' guide come
from?
Menluth.

Thanks! I appreciate the compliment. If you look past the guns, wagons, and
horses it starts to seem a lot clearer.

Stuart Drucker

From: Menluth [menluth@...]
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 1:34 PM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Poll results for pota

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Stuart Drucker" <sdrucker@p...> wrote:
>> I'd put them somewhere between the Black Death and early
Renaissance Europe (say mid-15th century, pre-Columbus) > Stuart
>
Hi Stuart,
Very well-thought out and convincing argument. I've always felt that
the show had a "Western" and therefore late 19th century feel to it,
but your explanation for early Renaissance European-type
civilization is quite compelling.
Menluth.

Maybe, but the role of "religion" is more like medieval Europe than ancient
times. In Greece & Rome there's a pantheon of religious dieties, each
invoked for specific needs, although I'd argue that some are at the top more
than others. In the Apes society there's the Lawgiver's TRUTH. At least my
read of the series is that the Lawgiver was perceived by the apes as having
received the "truth" by God. There's also a comment in the Secret Scrolls
about "how alone among God's creatures, man kills for sport or lust or
greed" (I'm paraphrasing). So at least they're familiar with the notion of a
prophet of God.

In Greece or Rome, there's also more tolerance for heretics, or at least the
notion of persecuting someone for different beliefs wasn't as strong. I'd
also say the same about the ancient Israelite kingdom to some extent. They
believed in monotheism, but it was never strongly enforced by the law of the
land except for rare periods (the early kingdom).

Their view of the outside world is actually more Bronze Age in that "beyond
us there's NOTHING". Even the ancients knew that there was an outside world
beyond their borders, no matter how inaccessible or "barbaric". Until the
pressure for feeding grounds and the ambition of Ursus to conquer
"something", there's no curiousity at all. Even then, they think they're
expanding into a vacant space until the scouts start disappearing. I'm
assuming that Ursus had his ambition before the scouts disappeared, although
that's debatable.

When I'm mentioning their treatment of heresy, I'm referring to the
treatment of Cornelius and Zira in Planet by Zaius, by the way.

Of course, the parody of Heston movies sounds better. It depends on how
seriously you want to look at the look of the films.

Stuart

_____

From: veetus@... [veetus@...]
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 1:40 PM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Poll results for pota



The society is obviously based on ancient Greece and Rome. The more modern
stuff (of which there isn't much) are hand - me - downs from the human
civilization. I don't see any 19th Century in it. I think it's a play on
ancient times and the "Ben Hur"/ "10 Commandments" movies Heston was famous
for. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stuart Drucker" <sdrucker@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 11:07 AM
Subject: RE: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Poll results for pota


>
>
> Yeah, but while they had guns, did they have the printing press or any
> method of agricultural mechanization? If they were mid-19th century
America,
> they'd be along the road to developing advanced transportation methods
like
> rail, as well as starting to lay the groundwork for understanding
processes
> like chemistry or electricity.
>
> I'd put them somewhere between the Black Death and early Renaissance
Europe
> (say mid-15th century, pre-Columbus) for several reasons:
> 1) They would adapt technology that might be useful for them, but there
> limits to what they DIDN'T want to do. There was no apparent interest in
> astronomy, physics, or chemistry, but they had "advanced" knowledge of
> biology
> 2) Most of their "advanced" technology was salvaged from the ruins of
human
> civilization (guns, wagons, artillery), not invented. This was similar to
> what Medieval Europe did with Islamic civilization or China, although the
> origin was clearly forgotten by all but the "guardians of the terrible
> secret"
> 3) No initial curiousity about the outside world, but it was starting to
> develop due to the need for "new feeding grounds"
> 4) A monolithic, hierarchical religious world-view, with reliance on the
> Lawgiver to tell all in "scripture" via the Sacred Scrolls
> 5) Persecution of heretics for non-standard thinking
> 6) Existence of a middle-class "bourgeoise" via the chimps, but no real
> power exerted by them in the traditional orangutan/gorilla-driven power
> structure
> 7) Last, but not least: use of a slave structure, with no conception of
> "human rights" for their primitive human slaves
>
> Just my $0.02.
>
> Stuart
> _____
>
> From: James [JamesA1102@...]
> Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 11:41 AM
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Poll results for pota
>
>
>
>
> I see most people went with Mid-19th Century America. I've always
> felt myself that the Apes were pretty sophisticated just not
> technological.
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, pota@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> >
> > The following pota poll is now closed. Here are the
> > final results:
> >
> >
> > POLL QUESTION: At what level of technology had the
> > Apes in Planet & Beneath achieved?
> >
> > CHOICES AND RESULTS
> > - Encient Egypt, Greece & Rom, 0 votes, 0.00%
> > - The Middle Ages, 3 votes, 30.00%
> > - The Renaissance, 1 votes, 10.00%
> > - 18th Century Europe, 0 votes, 0.00%
> > - Mid-19th Century America, 6 votes, 60.00%
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Be sure to visit the Group's Internal Website
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/MainPage.htm for Original POTA
One
> Sheets & Lobby Cards, Trailers & Rare Videos, Trading Cards and much, much
> more...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12990ojep/M=288055.5499757.6577723.2004029/D=gr
>
oups/S=1705021437:HM/EXP=1097946471/A=2193924/R=0/SIG=12h9oogn4/*http://stor
> e.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/clink?yhst-56407110520241+nsXvzK+icopydvds2.htmlgt;
click
> here
>
>
<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=288055.5499757.6577723.2004029/D=groups/S=
> :HM/A=2193924/rand=182931010>
>
> _____
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/
>
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> pota-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:pota-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Be sure to visit the Group's Internal Website
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/MainPage.htm for Original POTA One
Sheets & Lobby Cards, Trailers & Rare Videos, Trading Cards and much, much
more...
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>






Be sure to visit the Group's Internal Website
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/MainPage.htm for Original POTA One
Sheets & Lobby Cards, Trailers & Rare Videos, Trading Cards and much, much
more...







<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129r32hmq/M=288055.5499757.6577723.2004029/D=gr
oups/S=1705021437:HM/EXP=1097952048/A=2193924/R=0/SIG=12h9oogn4/*http://stor
e.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/clink?yhst-56407110520241+nsXvzK+icopydvds2.htmlgt; click
here

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<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I've been reading through my old Marvel mags and came across
something in issue 12 I'd like to share.

A reader asks the ApeVine: "When are you going to credit Pierre
Boulle on your contents page?"

Marvel replies: " Our POTA takes almost nothing, save the title,
from the original novel. Our POTA is based on concepts created
by 20th Century Fox for use in its series of Apes films and other
projects. Fox, of course, originally based thier ideas on the
Boulle novel, but it's all pretty far removed by now."

Personally I think that although Marvel are correct in one sense
Boulle will always remain the 'source' and ought to always be
credited as such. Did the Burton remake credit him? I can't
recall.

Dave B

Wow, that is one classy, classy image you've got on there! Clearly,
Simian Scrolls has never been in better hands. One thing that strikes
me about the Bible( which is a woderful thing to read at last---
thanks Mark!) is that the Virdon and Kovac/Burke characters don't
seem to be given a hierarchy ie, I've read that Burke was essentially
meant to be the comic foil for the hero leader Virdon. That doesn't
seem to be how the bible had it, and I wonder did ideas change or was
Burke always meant to be the strong character portrayed by Jimbo?
John, Scrolls.

Ha! I've just seen the home page!

I can't imagine why Zaius would soil his hands with a rag like
that. Maybe he's warning the populace to "Beware the beast
Scrolls"

Dave B

Welcome to the Planet of the Apes...Feel free to come on in and
peruse our site...And post...

Glen

Dear POTA Fans,

We thank you for placing your pre-orders for the upcoming 12" Dr. Zaius
Sideshow Exclusive (item #75011) from our Planet of the Apes Collection. In
response to our collectors' feedback over the past few months, Sideshow Collectibles
has increased its quality control procedures in order to ensure that you
receive the highest quality product possible, one that you will be proud to include
in your collection.

Some important aspects our quality improvements are stringently controlled
painting techniques and stronger packaging, which will provide our items
ultimate safety during shipping.

Due to these changes, we want to inform you that the release date for the 12"
Dr. Zaius Sideshow Exclusive has changed to a January 05 anticipated release
date.

We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause and appreciate your
patience as we strive to bring you the best possible Planet of the Apes Collectible.

Best regards,
The Processing Team Members

Sideshow Collectibles
733 Lakefield Road, Unit B
Westlake Village, CA 91361
(805) 418-1940





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 10/15/04 4:02:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
dave@... writes:

> A reader asks the ApeVine: "When are you going to credit Pierre
> Boulle on your contents page?"
>
> Marvel replies: " Our POTA takes almost nothing, save the title,
> from the original novel. Our POTA is based on concepts created
> by 20th Century Fox for use in its series of Apes films and other
> projects. Fox, of course, originally based thier ideas on the
> Boulle novel, but it's all pretty far removed by now."
>
> Personally I think that although Marvel are correct in one sense
> Boulle will always remain the 'source' and ought to always be
> credited as such. Did the Burton remake credit him? I can't
> recall.
>
> Dave B
>

This is one of the reasons why I've always considered Marvel's POTA stories
two or three steps removed from Boulle and even the original movie!

-- Rory


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You make some very good points Stuart. Maybe the term equivelent is
more suitable. So while all things weren't completely equal (they
were more advanced in some areas and less advanced in other) there
was a certain parity.

Also consider that while the Apes may have salvaged some things from
human civilization it would require some advanced knowledge to
maintain them. Such as knowledge of chemistry to produce the
chemicals required for photography & gunpowder (as well as the
ability to mine the coal).

They would need knowledge of metallurgy to produce the guns as well
as the delicate surgical instruments seen used by Dr. Galen.

Additionally, the interiors were well lit even at night yet we never
see torches or candles, that suggests possibly a crude form of
electricity as does the power water hose.

The Apes are aware that they live on a planet and that other planets
exist which suggests a knowledge of astronomy.

They have a fairly detailed map of the local area which suggests a
sophisticated knowledge of both cartography & sureying.

You mention they had "no initial curiousity about the outside
world". While there is nothing in either Planet or Beneath to refute
that, there is really nothing to support it either.

While they are steeped in religious dogma, they do seem free of
superstitions. And remember a school teacher was put on trial less
than 80 years ago in the US for teaching evolution.

Finally, you mention slaverly. There were no slaves in Planet or
Beneath. Humans were animals in them.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Stuart Drucker" <sdrucker@p...> wrote:
>
> Yeah, but while they had guns, did they have the printing press or
any
> method of agricultural mechanization? If they were mid-19th
century America,
> they'd be along the road to developing advanced transportation
methods like
> rail, as well as starting to lay the groundwork for understanding
processes
> like chemistry or electricity.
>
> I'd put them somewhere between the Black Death and early
Renaissance Europe
> (say mid-15th century, pre-Columbus) for several reasons:
> 1) They would adapt technology that might be useful for them, but
there
> limits to what they DIDN'T want to do. There was no apparent
interest in
> astronomy, physics, or chemistry, but they had "advanced"
knowledge of
> biology
> 2) Most of their "advanced" technology was salvaged from the ruins
of human
> civilization (guns, wagons, artillery), not invented. This was
similar to
> what Medieval Europe did with Islamic civilization or China,
although the
> origin was clearly forgotten by all but the "guardians of the
terrible
> secret"
> 3) No initial curiousity about the outside world, but it was
starting to
> develop due to the need for "new feeding grounds"
> 4) A monolithic, hierarchical religious world-view, with reliance
on the
> Lawgiver to tell all in "scripture" via the Sacred Scrolls
> 5) Persecution of heretics for non-standard thinking
> 6) Existence of a middle-class "bourgeoise" via the chimps, but no
real
> power exerted by them in the traditional orangutan/gorilla-driven
power
> structure
> 7) Last, but not least: use of a slave structure, with no
conception of
> "human rights" for their primitive human slaves
>
> Just my $0.02.
>
> Stuart

Obviously, it's not an exact analogy. I was referring more to their
world-view, and HOW they used knowledge, than them exactly fitting a certain
point in human development.

Sure, they'd have to know some metallurgy or photography, but the question
is whether it was something they organically developed, or some skill that
was handed down generation to generation from the fall of human
civilization? If it was the second, the medieval pattern makes more sense.
Think hereditary guilds that had certain limited, specialized knowledge over
time, what monks copying down or preserving Greco-Roman literature w/o truly
understanding it. WE really don't know, though. It could be that the apes
were good at maintaining what they didn't understand the principles of
intuitively, just doing it out of tradition, inertia, or rote behavior.

Maybe they know they're on a planet because the word was passed down as the
equivalent of "the world"? Remember, they were presented as exactly speaking
hte language of their "ancestors", 20th century American English. If that
didn't change much (if at all), their innovation might be just as limited.
As for knowing about other planets, where was that?

The only evidence is that Dr. Milo was able to launch the spaceship. I'd be
likely to believe that Salvage fanfic about the reasoning for it; him
getting hold of obscure bits of knowleges (maps, remnants of books) that
were going to be destroyed by Zaius and being genious enough to "half
understand it".

Stuart Drucker
President
Drucker Analytics, Inc.
233 E. Erie, Suite 801
Chicago, IL 60611
(312) 642-1202


_____

From: James [JamesA1102@...]
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 6:57 PM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Poll results for pota




You make some very good points Stuart. Maybe the term equivelent is
more suitable. So while all things weren't completely equal (they
were more advanced in some areas and less advanced in other) there
was a certain parity.

Also consider that while the Apes may have salvaged some things from
human civilization it would require some advanced knowledge to
maintain them. Such as knowledge of chemistry to produce the
chemicals required for photography & gunpowder (as well as the
ability to mine the coal).

They would need knowledge of metallurgy to produce the guns as well
as the delicate surgical instruments seen used by Dr. Galen.

Additionally, the interiors were well lit even at night yet we never
see torches or candles, that suggests possibly a crude form of
electricity as does the power water hose.

The Apes are aware that they live on a planet and that other planets
exist which suggests a knowledge of astronomy.

They have a fairly detailed map of the local area which suggests a
sophisticated knowledge of both cartography & sureying.

You mention they had "no initial curiousity about the outside
world". While there is nothing in either Planet or Beneath to refute
that, there is really nothing to support it either.

While they are steeped in religious dogma, they do seem free of
superstitions. And remember a school teacher was put on trial less
than 80 years ago in the US for teaching evolution.

Finally, you mention slaverly. There were no slaves in Planet or
Beneath. Humans were animals in them.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Stuart Drucker" <sdrucker@p...> wrote:
>
> Yeah, but while they had guns, did they have the printing press or
any
> method of agricultural mechanization? If they were mid-19th
century America,
> they'd be along the road to developing advanced transportation
methods like
> rail, as well as starting to lay the groundwork for understanding
processes
> like chemistry or electricity.
>
> I'd put them somewhere between the Black Death and early
Renaissance Europe
> (say mid-15th century, pre-Columbus) for several reasons:
> 1) They would adapt technology that might be useful for them, but
there
> limits to what they DIDN'T want to do. There was no apparent
interest in
> astronomy, physics, or chemistry, but they had "advanced"
knowledge of
> biology
> 2) Most of their "advanced" technology was salvaged from the ruins
of human
> civilization (guns, wagons, artillery), not invented. This was
similar to
> what Medieval Europe did with Islamic civilization or China,
although the
> origin was clearly forgotten by all but the "guardians of the
terrible
> secret"
> 3) No initial curiousity about the outside world, but it was
starting to
> develop due to the need for "new feeding grounds"
> 4) A monolithic, hierarchical religious world-view, with reliance
on the
> Lawgiver to tell all in "scripture" via the Sacred Scrolls
> 5) Persecution of heretics for non-standard thinking
> 6) Existence of a middle-class "bourgeoise" via the chimps, but no
real
> power exerted by them in the traditional orangutan/gorilla-driven
power
> structure
> 7) Last, but not least: use of a slave structure, with no
conception of
> "human rights" for their primitive human slaves
>
> Just my $0.02.
>
> Stuart









Be sure to visit the Group's Internal Website
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/MainPage.htm for Original POTA One
Sheets & Lobby Cards, Trailers & Rare Videos, Trading Cards and much, much
more...







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here

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear POTA Fans,

We thank you for placing your pre-orders for the upcoming 12" Forbidden Zone
Astronaut Taylor Sideshow Exclusive (item #75031) from our Planet of the Apes
Collection. In response to our collectors' feedback over the past few months,
Sideshow Collectibles has increased its quality control procedures in order to
ensure that you receive the highest quality product possible, one that you
will be proud to include in your collection.

Some important aspects our quality improvements are stringently controlled
painting techniques and stronger packaging, which will provide our items
ultimate safety during shipping.

Due to these changes, we want to inform you that the release date for the 12"
Forbidden Zone Astronaut Taylor has changed to a February 05 anticipated
release date.

We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause and appreciate your
patience as we strive to bring you the best possible Planet of the Apes Collectible.

Best regards,
The Processing Team Members

Sideshow Collectibles
733 Lakefield Road, Unit B
Westlake Village, CA 91361
(805) 418-1940





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
pota group:

As a fan of POTA, which of the
following other great science fiction
series appeals to you more?

o Star Wars
o Star Trek
o Neither. POTA alone rules the planet !!


To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/surveys?id=1451188

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!

Elaine has put up a very thought-provoking poll in the Polls
section: which ape would you prefer as your house guest? I love it.
The polls are fun and they're free, so get your votes in!!

I decided to piggyback the two current polls with one of my own.
Every science fiction universe has its own different philosophy and
version of the future. As a fan of POTA, which of Star Wars or Star
Trek appeals to you most? You can enter a vote by clicking on the
Polls link from the main page.

Menluth.

That is possible. I do see the ancient Greece & Rome analogy far
more prevelent in the remake. The weapons and body armor of the apes
are all indications of that.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, <veetus@e...> wrote:
>
> The society is obviously based on ancient Greece and Rome. The
more modern
> stuff (of which there isn't much) are hand - me - downs from the
human
> civilization. I don't see any 19th Century in it. I think it's a
play on
> ancient times and the "Ben Hur"/ "10 Commandments" movies Heston
was famous
> for. - - - Jeff
>

Frankly, I like both. However if force to choose, I'd say Star Trek
because like POTA it comments on our culture more directly.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, pota@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
>
> Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
> pota group:
>
> As a fan of POTA, which of the
> following other great science fiction
> series appeals to you more?
>
> o Star Wars
> o Star Trek
> o Neither. POTA alone rules the planet !!
>
>

But all knowledge is passed from one generation to the next. Each
generation doesn't have to re-discover fire or re-invent gunpowder
or the automobile or the lightbulb. And I defy you to go out on the
street and ask the average man or woman to tell you exactly how they
work.
In cultures where advance knowledge or skills are passed down a
certain mystical or superstitious element surrounds it. None of this
is evident in Ape society. The reverse is true. It all seems rather
matter of fact. Even if the average ape on the street didn't
understand such things, there seems to be a certain sophistcation
among scientists like Cornelius, Zira and Zauis.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Stuart Drucker" <sdrucker@p...> wrote:
>
> Obviously, it's not an exact analogy. I was referring more to their
> world-view, and HOW they used knowledge, than them exactly fitting
a certain
> point in human development.
>
> Sure, they'd have to know some metallurgy or photography, but the
question
> is whether it was something they organically developed, or some
skill that
> was handed down generation to generation from the fall of human
> civilization? If it was the second, the medieval pattern makes
more sense.
> Think hereditary guilds that had certain limited, specialized
knowledge over
> time, what monks copying down or preserving Greco-Roman literature
w/o truly
> understanding it. WE really don't know, though. It could be that
the apes
> were good at maintaining what they didn't understand the
principles of
> intuitively, just doing it out of tradition, inertia, or rote
behavior.
>
> Maybe they know they're on a planet because the word was passed
down as the
> equivalent of "the world"? Remember, they were presented as
exactly speaking
> hte language of their "ancestors", 20th century American English.
If that
> didn't change much (if at all), their innovation might be just as
limited.
> As for knowing about other planets, where was that?
>
> The only evidence is that Dr. Milo was able to launch the
spaceship. I'd be
> likely to believe that Salvage fanfic about the reasoning for it;
him
> getting hold of obscure bits of knowleges (maps, remnants of
books) that
> were going to be destroyed by Zaius and being genious enough
to "half
> understand it".
>
> Stuart Drucker
> President
> Drucker Analytics, Inc.
> 233 E. Erie, Suite 801
> Chicago, IL 60611
> (312) 642-1202
>
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Stuart Drucker" <sdrucker@p...> wrote:

>
> Maybe, but the role of "religion" is more like medieval Europe

than ancient

> times. In Greece & Rome there's a pantheon of religious dieties,

each

> invoked for specific needs, although I'd argue that some are at

the top more

> than others. In the Apes society there's the Lawgiver's TRUTH. At

least my

> read of the series is that the Lawgiver was perceived by the apes

as having

> received the "truth" by God. There's also a comment in the Secret

Scrolls

> about "how alone among God's creatures, man kills for sport or

lust or

> greed" (I'm paraphrasing). So at least they're familiar with the

notion of a

> prophet of God.
>
> In Greece or Rome, there's also more tolerance for heretics, or at

least the

> notion of persecuting someone for different beliefs wasn't as

strong. I'd

> also say the same about the ancient Israelite kingdom to some

extent. They

> believed in monotheism, but it was never strongly enforced by the

law of the

> land except for rare periods (the early kingdom).

But in terms of religion there is none of the superstitions that are
part of more primative societies nor any of the barbaric treatment
of non-belivers. Even when C&Z are charged with heresey the most
they'll get is two years. They won't be fed to the lions, burned at
the stake or tortured by a Inquisition. And as I said earlier,
consider the Scopes Monkey Trial that took place less than 80 years
ago. C&Z are essentially faced with the same charge. And an
understanding of something as complex as evolution requires some
advanced knowledge and sophisticated thinking.

>
> Their view of the outside world is actually more Bronze Age in

that "beyond

> us there's NOTHING". Even the ancients knew that there was an

outside world

> beyond their borders, no matter how inaccessible or "barbaric".

Until the

> pressure for feeding grounds and the ambition of Ursus to conquer
> "something", there's no curiousity at all. Even then, they think

they're

> expanding into a vacant space until the scouts start disappearing.

I'm

> assuming that Ursus had his ambition before the scouts

disappeared, although

> that's debatable.

I think this is very debatable. No one ever states in Planet "beyond
us there's NOTHING" or directly exhibits that additude. We do know
their eastern desert is Forbidden but there was enough curiousity
about that Cornelius explored it. We don't know what their additude
about the world to the north, west and south was because it was
never discussed either way.

Prehaps he's examining a relic that shows the evils of man;-)

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Dave B" <dave@4...> wrote:
>
>
> Ha! I've just seen the home page!
>
> I can't imagine why Zaius would soil his hands with a rag like
> that. Maybe he's warning the populace to "Beware the beast
> Scrolls"
>
> Dave B

Just a reminder. There's still time to get in your entry for Week 5
of the contest. And since no one this week has yet to get all five
questions correct, the Weekly Prize is still up for grabs.

While you don't need to enter every week to be eligble for the Grand
Prize, the more weeks you enter the better chance you have.

Just go to http://planetoftheapestv.150m.com/ and click on the
contest link.

Last week's winner & answers and the current standings are available
at:
http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/database

This week's winner will be annouced in the here
http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/ on Monday when the Week 6
clip and questions are posted. Good luck.

The ape citizens in the originals had simplistic wardrobe, kinda cookie
cutter and that's what the ancient Greek and Romans had. Togas and stuff.
It's as plain as the nose on Cornelius' face, Jamesus. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "James" <JamesA1102@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 9:32 PM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: Poll results for pota


>
>
>
> That is possible. I do see the ancient Greece & Rome analogy far
> more prevelent in the remake. The weapons and body armor of the apes
> are all indications of that.
>

Although it's not stated I always felt that the apes might have had
some kind of taboo against bare (hairy) flesh. The climate is hot
and yet they wear very heavy clothing. Long sleeves, long
dresses etc. Do they equate more clothing with being less
human? Or is it religious perhaps, like some human societies
that wear veils or turbans and such.

I know there are some exceptions - Julius bare arms for
instance. But generally...

Dave

Yeah, it seems odd the apes would wear long sleeves and hot armor in
essentially a desert. But of course the real reason is so the makeup man
doesn't have to apply more hair than necessary. Julius was always one of the
stand out things for me. His bare arms. Shows how the original gave a little
extra. (the hairy arms were actually part of the suit Buck wore; it wasn't
applied every day). - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave B" <dave@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2004 8:39 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Clothes maketh the ape


>
>
>
> Although it's not stated I always felt that the apes might have had
> some kind of taboo against bare (hairy) flesh. The climate is hot
> and yet they wear very heavy clothing. Long sleeves, long
> dresses etc. Do they equate more clothing with being less
> human? Or is it religious perhaps, like some human societies
> that wear veils or turbans and such.
>
> I know there are some exceptions - Julius bare arms for
> instance. But generally...
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Be sure to visit the Group's Internal Website
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/MainPage.htm for Original POTA One
Sheets & Lobby Cards, Trailers & Rare Videos, Trading Cards and much, much
more...
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I always liked the job done on Zira's arm for "Escape"...

G

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, <veetus@e...> wrote:
>
> Yeah, it seems odd the apes would wear long sleeves and hot armor
in
> essentially a desert. But of course the real reason is so the
makeup man
> doesn't have to apply more hair than necessary. Julius was always
one of the
> stand out things for me. His bare arms. Shows how the original gave
a little
> extra. (the hairy arms were actually part of the suit Buck wore; it
wasn't
> applied every day). - - - Jeff

A web discovery: this old movie review of PLANET by Roger Ebert,

Planet of the Apes

By Roger Ebert / April 15, 1968

Cast & Credits
Taylor Charlton Heston
Cornelius Roddy McDowall
Zira Kim Hunter
Dr. Zaius Maurice Evans
Nova Linda Harrison

Twentieth Century-Fox presents an Arthur P. Jacobs production, directed by
Franklin J. Schaffner from a screenplay by Michael Wilson and Rod Serling.
Photographed by Leon Shamroy. In color.

My highly reliable public opinion sampling system, consisting entirely of
taking the word of taxi drivers for everything, leads me to the conclusion that "
Planet of the Apes" is one of this year's most eagerly anticipated movies.

Somehow the chemistry has gone to work, the word has gotten around and the
mass audience is interested. There was even a line in front of the theater
Friday morning, and that's a sight you don't see every day.

Since "Planet" already seems to have found its audience, then, I thought I'd
address this review to the others -- to those who wouldn't be caught dead
going to see anything called "Planet of the Apes."

I can understand their bias; until I started reviewing movies I probably
wouldn't have gone to see it either. And any number of friends have been telling
me they've heard it was "awful" -- when, in fact, nobody in Chicago had seen it
until Friday and the reviews from other cities have been pretty good.

What they were really implying was that any movie named "Planet of the Apes''
had to be awful. This kind of snobbery may be good for a chuckle or two, but
those who practice it miss a lot of entertaining movies.

"Planet of the Apes" is one. It is not great, or significant, or profound.
Occasionally it is distractingly cute, as when the apes rewrite one cliché after
another: "Man see, Man do," for example, or "To apes, all men look alike."
but, this is part of the fun. So is that much-publicized ape makeup: it does
look real, by jingo, and after awhile you really do start thinking of those apes
as individuals.

The plot is cast in the time-proven Hollywood adventure tradition. A space
explorer from Earth (Charlton Heston) crash-lands on an unknown planet where
apes rank higher than men on the evolutionary ladder. He tries to convince his
captors he is intelligent; there are some good action sequences; some amusing
twists; some easily digestible sociological and philosophical points, and a
thoroughly satisfactory surprise ending.

Heston is by now just about the only Hollywood actor capable of playing
archetypal heroes -- Moses, Ben-Hur, the last man alive, etc. -- and there must be
a reason. In stature and screen presence, he is heroic and he is noble; you've
got to admit it. He's right for this role, however preposterous it really may
be, and he carries the film effortlessly. The actors hidden behind that ape
makeup (Kim Hunter, Maurice Evans, Roddy McDowall, etc.) are difficult to
review as people, but they're fine as apes.

What I'm getting at, I guess, is that "Planet of the Apes" is much better
than I expected it to be. It is quickly paced, completely entertaining, and its
philosophical pretensions don't get in the way.

If you only condescend to see an adventure thriller on rare occasions,
condescend this time. You have nothing to lower but your brow.








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Battle for the Planet of the Apes

Roger Ebert / July 10, 1973

Cast & Credits
Caesar Roddy McDowall
Also Claude Akins
Lisa Natalie Trundy
Kolp Severn Darden

Film is presented by 20th Century-Fox, directed by J. Lee Thompson and
produced by Arthur P. Jacobs. Written by John and Joyce Corrington. Photographed by
Richard H. Kline. Classified PG.

"Battle for the Planet of the Apes" is the fifth and, merciful God, the last
of the ape movies. It takes place long after Charlton Heston and even James
Franciscus have faded from the scene; we have a new generation headed by Caesar
(Roddy McDowall), who is the son of the original ape leaders, Cornelius and
Zira. Caesar is nonviolent and practices mutual co-operation with the human
colony, but there's a militarist junta of trigger-happy professional gorilla
soldiers plotting to overthrow the government.

Meanwhile, Caesar plans an expedition to the Forbidden City (which was
destroyed by nuclear war in the last ape movie, you will doubtless vividly recall),
in order to view a videotape made by his late parents. In it, they predict
that the city will be destroyed by nuclear war. Thanks a lot. But the expedition
also discovers that in the ruins of the city's subterranean vastness, a few
mutant humans still survive.

Unlike the good humans, these humans have been weakened by radiation. Their
leader is Severn (Second City) Darden, who seems somewhat unlikely in the role
at first. But Darden, who is a comedian to the core, manages to salvage a
glimmer of Mad Dictator savoir faire from the role, and who but the beloved Severn
could lead a retreat wearing ski goggles and riding in a commandeered school
bus? Meanwhile, back at Ape City, Caesar's young son has eavesdropped on the
militarists and discovered their plans to raid the armory and bring an end to
12 years of peace. He is discovered by the evil gorilla leader, who hacks a
vine in two and sends young Cornelius plunging to the ground. Thereupon Caesar,
blinded by grief, keeps a vigil at his son's bedside while the gorillas put all
the humans in the stockade and plunder the armory.

Now here things become slightly complicated. We are asked to sympathize with
Caesar the nonviolent. We are also asked to boo the bad guys, who are the
human mutants from the Forbidden City. But then the demented Darden leads his
kamikaze raid on the healthy and uncontaminated Ape City; it is the militarist
gorillas that fight back the onslaught. So maybe the message is that nonviolence
is great if you have an army to back it up?

The movie is incompetently made, which is something of a surprise considering
that it was directed by an old and good hand, J. Lee ("The Guns of Navarone")
Thompson. Transitions are ragged, a lot of the dialog is inaudible and the
rest is listless, and the apes spend a lot of time sitting around discussing
abstractions. The battle footage looks cheap. And the story is painfully thin.

"Battle" looks like the last gap of a dying series, a movie made simply to
wring the dollars out of any remaining ape fans. To a degree, that's also the
case with the new (and ninth) James Bond movie, "To Live and Let Die." But at
least with that one, some attempt was made to reproduce the technical gimmicks
and wry eroticism of the earlier films; in "Battle," there's simply no reason
at all for going. Anyone who hasn't had enough apes after the first four in the
series has probably, by now, gone ape all by himself.








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks, Rory!!...Great find!!!...

G

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
>
> A web discovery: this old movie review of PLANET by Roger Ebert,
>
> Planet of the Apes
>
> By Roger Ebert / April 15, 1968
>
> Cast & Credits
> Taylor Charlton Heston
> Cornelius Roddy McDowall
> Zira Kim Hunter
> Dr. Zaius Maurice Evans
> Nova Linda Harrison
>
> Twentieth Century-Fox presents an Arthur P. Jacobs production,
directed by
> Franklin J. Schaffner from a screenplay by Michael Wilson and Rod
Serling.
> Photographed by Leon Shamroy. In color.
>
> My highly reliable public opinion sampling system, consisting
entirely of
> taking the word of taxi drivers for everything, leads me to the
conclusion that "
> Planet of the Apes" is one of this year's most eagerly anticipated
movies.
>
> Somehow the chemistry has gone to work, the word has gotten around
and the
> mass audience is interested. There was even a line in front of the
theater
> Friday morning, and that's a sight you don't see every day.
>
> Since "Planet" already seems to have found its audience, then, I
thought I'd
> address this review to the others -- to those who wouldn't be
caught dead
> going to see anything called "Planet of the Apes."
>
> I can understand their bias; until I started reviewing movies I
probably
> wouldn't have gone to see it either. And any number of friends have
been telling
> me they've heard it was "awful" -- when, in fact, nobody in Chicago
had seen it
> until Friday and the reviews from other cities have been pretty
good.
>
> What they were really implying was that any movie named "Planet of
the Apes''
> had to be awful. This kind of snobbery may be good for a chuckle or
two, but
> those who practice it miss a lot of entertaining movies.
>
> "Planet of the Apes" is one. It is not great, or significant, or
profound.
> Occasionally it is distractingly cute, as when the apes rewrite one
cliché after
> another: "Man see, Man do," for example, or "To apes, all men look
alike."
> but, this is part of the fun. So is that much-publicized ape
makeup: it does
> look real, by jingo, and after awhile you really do start thinking
of those apes
> as individuals.
>
> The plot is cast in the time-proven Hollywood adventure tradition.
A space
> explorer from Earth (Charlton Heston) crash-lands on an unknown
planet where
> apes rank higher than men on the evolutionary ladder. He tries to
convince his
> captors he is intelligent; there are some good action sequences;
some amusing
> twists; some easily digestible sociological and philosophical
points, and a
> thoroughly satisfactory surprise ending.
>
> Heston is by now just about the only Hollywood actor capable of
playing
> archetypal heroes -- Moses, Ben-Hur, the last man alive, etc. --
and there must be
> a reason. In stature and screen presence, he is heroic and he is
noble; you've
> got to admit it. He's right for this role, however preposterous it
really may
> be, and he carries the film effortlessly. The actors hidden behind
that ape
> makeup (Kim Hunter, Maurice Evans, Roddy McDowall, etc.) are
difficult to
> review as people, but they're fine as apes.
>
> What I'm getting at, I guess, is that "Planet of the Apes" is much
better
> than I expected it to be. It is quickly paced, completely
entertaining, and its
> philosophical pretensions don't get in the way.
>
> If you only condescend to see an adventure thriller on rare
occasions,
> condescend this time. You have nothing to lower but your brow.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Empire magazine for November has a plug for a special edition dvd of
20,0000 Leagues Under the Sea.It includes extensive 'making of'
extras, including unused footage of the giant squid fight that was
junked.This is a 1954 film!I know it's Disney, but still it's a
revelation that old films still have these resources. Why can't stuff
like this ever seem to be done with Apes.There MUST be stuff out
there, missing scenes we all know about. What is it with Apes that we
always seem to be left frustrated and ignored? John, Scrolls.

And another great find!!!...Thanks, again, Rory!!...

G

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
>
> Battle for the Planet of the Apes
>
> Roger Ebert / July 10, 1973
>
> Cast & Credits
> Caesar Roddy McDowall
> Also Claude Akins
> Lisa Natalie Trundy
> Kolp Severn Darden
>
> Film is presented by 20th Century-Fox, directed by J. Lee Thompson
and
> produced by Arthur P. Jacobs. Written by John and Joyce Corrington.
Photographed by
> Richard H. Kline. Classified PG.
>
> "Battle for the Planet of the Apes" is the fifth and, merciful God,
the last
> of the ape movies. It takes place long after Charlton Heston and
even James
> Franciscus have faded from the scene; we have a new generation
headed by Caesar
> (Roddy McDowall), who is the son of the original ape leaders,
Cornelius and
> Zira. Caesar is nonviolent and practices mutual co-operation with
the human
> colony, but there's a militarist junta of trigger-happy
professional gorilla
> soldiers plotting to overthrow the government.
>
> Meanwhile, Caesar plans an expedition to the Forbidden City (which
was
> destroyed by nuclear war in the last ape movie, you will doubtless
vividly recall),
> in order to view a videotape made by his late parents. In it, they
predict
> that the city will be destroyed by nuclear war. Thanks a lot. But
the expedition
> also discovers that in the ruins of the city's subterranean
vastness, a few
> mutant humans still survive.
>
> Unlike the good humans, these humans have been weakened by
radiation. Their
> leader is Severn (Second City) Darden, who seems somewhat unlikely
in the role
> at first. But Darden, who is a comedian to the core, manages to
salvage a
> glimmer of Mad Dictator savoir faire from the role, and who but the
beloved Severn
> could lead a retreat wearing ski goggles and riding in a
commandeered school
> bus? Meanwhile, back at Ape City, Caesar's young son has
eavesdropped on the
> militarists and discovered their plans to raid the armory and bring
an end to
> 12 years of peace. He is discovered by the evil gorilla leader, who
hacks a
> vine in two and sends young Cornelius plunging to the ground.
Thereupon Caesar,
> blinded by grief, keeps a vigil at his son's bedside while the
gorillas put all
> the humans in the stockade and plunder the armory.
>
> Now here things become slightly complicated. We are asked to
sympathize with
> Caesar the nonviolent. We are also asked to boo the bad guys, who
are the
> human mutants from the Forbidden City. But then the demented Darden
leads his
> kamikaze raid on the healthy and uncontaminated Ape City; it is the
militarist
> gorillas that fight back the onslaught. So maybe the message is
that nonviolence
> is great if you have an army to back it up?
>
> The movie is incompetently made, which is something of a surprise
considering
> that it was directed by an old and good hand, J. Lee ("The Guns of
Navarone")
> Thompson. Transitions are ragged, a lot of the dialog is inaudible
and the
> rest is listless, and the apes spend a lot of time sitting around
discussing
> abstractions. The battle footage looks cheap. And the story is
painfully thin.
>
> "Battle" looks like the last gap of a dying series, a movie made
simply to
> wring the dollars out of any remaining ape fans. To a degree,
that's also the
> case with the new (and ninth) James Bond movie, "To Live and Let
Die." But at
> least with that one, some attempt was made to reproduce the
technical gimmicks
> and wry eroticism of the earlier films; in "Battle," there's simply
no reason
> at all for going. Anyone who hasn't had enough apes after the first
four in the
> series has probably, by now, gone ape all by himself.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To try and get what you want out of any future APES DVDs this is the person
to write to and email and call:

Bob DeLellis, President
20th Century Fox Home Entertainment
2121 Avenue Of The Stars 25th Fl.
Los Angeles, CA 90028
Telephone: 310-369-3900
Fax: 310-369-3318
E-Mail: feedback@...
Web Site: http://www.tcfhe.com







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Walt Disney has always known the archive value of his films. Even in the
'50's documentaries about them were being shown on his TV shows. The other
studios, like Fox, are rotating execs without much interest in the future.
It's always what can help their career now. Today the Disney company knows
how to exploit "Disney" as a brand name. People go to a Disney film. They
don't go to a Fox film or a Warner Bros. film. Maybe they used to. What does
that have to do with POTA DVDs? I think Disney is better organized with
their archive stuff. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "shanter2002" <mail@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 3:39 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] What is it with Apes?


>
>
>
> Empire magazine for November has a plug for a special edition dvd of
> 20,0000 Leagues Under the Sea.It includes extensive 'making of'
> extras, including unused footage of the giant squid fight that was
> junked.This is a 1954 film!I know it's Disney, but still it's a
> revelation that old films still have these resources. Why can't stuff
> like this ever seem to be done with Apes.There MUST be stuff out
> there, missing scenes we all know about. What is it with Apes that we
> always seem to be left frustrated and ignored? John, Scrolls.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Be sure to visit the Group's Internal Website
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/MainPage.htm for Original POTA One
Sheets & Lobby Cards, Trailers & Rare Videos, Trading Cards and much, much
more...
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

In a message dated 10/17/04 9:10:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
mail@... writes:

> Empire magazine for November has a plug for a special edition dvd of
> 20,0000 Leagues Under the Sea.It includes extensive 'making of'
> extras, including unused footage of the giant squid fight that was
> junked.This is a 1954 film!I know it's Disney, but still it's a
> revelation that old films still have these resources. Why can't stuff
> like this ever seem to be done with Apes.There MUST be stuff out
> there, missing scenes we all know about. What is it with Apes that we
> always seem to be left frustrated and ignored? John, Scrolls.
>

Dear John,

Fox is NOT Disney. There was no Walt Disney at Fox, so the modern 20th
Century Fox studio, now merely a division of the nefarious New Corp., doesn't have
the kind of reverence for it's library of movies the way the Disney Studio
does with the movies that Walt Disney produced.

There is probably much in the Fox archives relating to APES. For now we
should just keep our fingers crossed that it's being preserved. If the fan base
for APES were as large as it is for STAR WARS or STAR TREK no doubt we'd have
more of it out there, but we don't so it ain't. I'm just thankful for what
there is.

I've been in contact with a guy who's producing a special edition DVD of the
1966 20th Century-Fox movie THE SAND PEBBLES. This movie was a "roadshow"
picture that originally had a running time of 196 minutes. When it went into
general release it was cut to 182 minutes and even shorter. What's currently on
DVD is the 182 minute version. The complete version hasn't been seen since
1967. The restoration of the movie isn't being done because Fox wants to do it,
it's being done because this guy has produced other DVDs for them and is a
fan of the movie and has worked a long time to convince executives at Fox Video
that it's worth doing.

That's what we need at Fox and haven't really had before. Ken Burns was a
POTA fan and he did a lot, but he's not so much of a fan that he'll probably do
anymore. I don't know who produced the 35th Anniversary Edition, but it was
definitely not everything we hoped in terms of extras, but I'm glad the effort
was made. It was better than nothing, and at least we got comments from an
ailing Jerry Goldsmith before he died.

But there doesn't seem to be anyone at Fox who's a POTA freak, the packaging
for the 35th Anniversary Edition confirms that. They don't seem to be able to
tell the difference from photos from PLANET to those from BENEATH. It's
largely up to we fans to keep writing to Fox and telling them what we want. Keep
your fingers crossed and be thankful that the last DVD sold well.

-- Rory


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Check out the use of Dr. Zaius on this site:

http://www.dvdcoverz.com/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I hear what Rory and Jeff say about Disney being different and that
is certainly true. Fox, whatever their failings, do have a new coffee
table book of archive and publicity stills over the decades coming
out and the little ape curled up inside me did wonder if their sense
of history might extend to doing the right thing by the greatest film
series ever made. Fox is supposed to have a reputation for storing a
massive archive of photos etc over the years.It is frustrating when
you see what is done with far lesser movies.Without getting too
morbid, a lot of the people involved have died in recent years and
the opportunity to do a true special edition is slipping away.John,
Scrolls.

There was a debate about this scene in the group a little while ago
and I forgot to mention that a human version of this scene is used as
an image in the opening credits of the animated series, which maybe
shows that the animators had some appreciation of the original movie.
John, Scrolls.

I think Fox is down on "Apes" thanks to the Burton movie (but if they
don't know WHY it failed they truly are morons). They probably know there's
some potential there, though they might assume it's residue interest from
the Burton thing. So they put out the 35th anniversary DVD but their hearts
weren't in it. Maybe there was too many recent POTA DVDs for them to think
the return was worth it. YET, POTA keeps turning up on their quarterly
financial report. They probably just don't know what to do with it. They
figure cheap "Garfield" and "Fat Albert" movies have more potential. Or
their new hero the forgettable "The Day After Tomorrow". What we need is
someone to buy Fox. A bankrupt Rupert Murdoch. What a dream! - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: <Haristas@...>
To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 7:50 AM
Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Re: What is it with Apes?


>
>
> In a message dated 10/17/04 9:10:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> mail@... writes:
>
>
> > Empire magazine for November has a plug for a special edition dvd of
> > 20,0000 Leagues Under the Sea.It includes extensive 'making of'
> > extras, including unused footage of the giant squid fight that was
> > junked.This is a 1954 film!I know it's Disney, but still it's a
> > revelation that old films still have these resources. Why can't stuff
> > like this ever seem to be done with Apes.There MUST be stuff out
> > there, missing scenes we all know about. What is it with Apes that we
> > always seem to be left frustrated and ignored? John, Scrolls.
> >
>
> Dear John,
>
> Fox is NOT Disney. There was no Walt Disney at Fox, so the modern 20th
> Century Fox studio, now merely a division of the nefarious New Corp.,
doesn't have
> the kind of reverence for it's library of movies the way the Disney Studio
> does with the movies that Walt Disney produced.
>
> There is probably much in the Fox archives relating to APES. For now we
> should just keep our fingers crossed that it's being preserved. If the
fan base
> for APES were as large as it is for STAR WARS or STAR TREK no doubt we'd
have
> more of it out there, but we don't so it ain't. I'm just thankful for
what
> there is.
>
> I've been in contact with a guy who's producing a special edition DVD of
the
> 1966 20th Century-Fox movie THE SAND PEBBLES. This movie was a "roadshow"
> picture that originally had a running time of 196 minutes. When it went
into
> general release it was cut to 182 minutes and even shorter. What's
currently on
> DVD is the 182 minute version. The complete version hasn't been seen
since
> 1967. The restoration of the movie isn't being done because Fox wants to
do it,
> it's being done because this guy has produced other DVDs for them and is a
> fan of the movie and has worked a long time to convince executives at Fox
Video
> that it's worth doing.
>
> That's what we need at Fox and haven't really had before. Ken Burns was a
> POTA fan and he did a lot, but he's not so much of a fan that he'll
probably do
> anymore. I don't know who produced the 35th Anniversary Edition, but it
was
> definitely not everything we hoped in terms of extras, but I'm glad the
effort
> was made. It was better than nothing, and at least we got comments from
an
> ailing Jerry Goldsmith before he died.
>
> But there doesn't seem to be anyone at Fox who's a POTA freak, the
packaging
> for the 35th Anniversary Edition confirms that. They don't seem to be
able to
> tell the difference from photos from PLANET to those from BENEATH. It's
> largely up to we fans to keep writing to Fox and telling them what we
want. Keep
> your fingers crossed and be thankful that the last DVD sold well.
>
> -- Rory
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Be sure to visit the Group's Internal Website
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/MainPage.htm for Original POTA One
Sheets & Lobby Cards, Trailers & Rare Videos, Trading Cards and much, much
more...
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

In a message dated 10/17/2004 6:19:12 PM Central Standard Time,
mail@... writes:

> Fox is supposed to have a reputation for storing a massive archive of
> photos, etc., over the years.

That may be true, but if it is, they sure don't use them... (I "think")
Whitty said the guy at Rittenhouse said he had very little to look at as far as
pics from APES. And, if they have an extensive archive on APES, then they should
have had a HUGE photo gallery on the 35th Anniversary DVD, but they didn't...
While they might have a huge archives altogether, then APES is either a small
part of it, or VERY overlooked.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Normally, at this time every Monday we announce a new clip &
questions plus last week's winner.

Unfortunately, due to technical difficulties beyond our control; we
will not be able to change the clip and questions until much later
today. At that time with will also announce last week's winner.

Sorry for the delay and any inconvenience.

It probably was convenient to have the apes in long sleeves etc for make-up
purposes. Elaine


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, taebokitti@a... wrote:

>
> It probably was convenient to have the apes in long sleeves etc

for make-up purposes. Elaine

Oh yes, absolutely, no doubt about it. I was just trying to
rationalise what the reason may have been in a fictional sense.
Ultimately pointless I know - but kind of fun nontheless.

Dave B

I always felt that since Ape City is in the Northeastern US it would
have a more temperate climate than Africa or Indonesia from where
the Apes came from; they would need the clothing to keep warm in the
cooler climate. Just a thought.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Dave B" <dave@4...> wrote:
>
>
> Although it's not stated I always felt that the apes might have
had
> some kind of taboo against bare (hairy) flesh. The climate is hot
> and yet they wear very heavy clothing. Long sleeves, long
> dresses etc. Do they equate more clothing with being less
> human? Or is it religious perhaps, like some human societies
> that wear veils or turbans and such.
>
> I know there are some exceptions - Julius bare arms for
> instance. But generally...
>
> Dave

Funny he refers to "Live and Let Die" also as the last gasp of a
dying series. Haven't there been 13 Bond films since? That's a long
dying gasp.
And I take back the nice thing I said about Ebert in my last post.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
>
> Battle for the Planet of the Apes
>
> Roger Ebert / July 10, 1973
>
> Cast & Credits
> Caesar Roddy McDowall
> Also Claude Akins
> Lisa Natalie Trundy
> Kolp Severn Darden
>
> Film is presented by 20th Century-Fox, directed by J. Lee Thompson
and
> produced by Arthur P. Jacobs. Written by John and Joyce
Corrington. Photographed by
> Richard H. Kline. Classified PG.
>
> "Battle for the Planet of the Apes" is the fifth and, merciful
God, the last
> of the ape movies. It takes place long after Charlton Heston and
even James
> Franciscus have faded from the scene; we have a new generation
headed by Caesar
> (Roddy McDowall), who is the son of the original ape leaders,
Cornelius and
> Zira. Caesar is nonviolent and practices mutual co-operation with
the human
> colony, but there's a militarist junta of trigger-happy
professional gorilla
> soldiers plotting to overthrow the government.
>
> Meanwhile, Caesar plans an expedition to the Forbidden City (which
was
> destroyed by nuclear war in the last ape movie, you will doubtless
vividly recall),
> in order to view a videotape made by his late parents. In it, they
predict
> that the city will be destroyed by nuclear war. Thanks a lot. But
the expedition
> also discovers that in the ruins of the city's subterranean
vastness, a few
> mutant humans still survive.
>
> Unlike the good humans, these humans have been weakened by
radiation. Their
> leader is Severn (Second City) Darden, who seems somewhat unlikely
in the role
> at first. But Darden, who is a comedian to the core, manages to
salvage a
> glimmer of Mad Dictator savoir faire from the role, and who but
the beloved Severn
> could lead a retreat wearing ski goggles and riding in a
commandeered school
> bus? Meanwhile, back at Ape City, Caesar's young son has
eavesdropped on the
> militarists and discovered their plans to raid the armory and
bring an end to
> 12 years of peace. He is discovered by the evil gorilla leader,
who hacks a
> vine in two and sends young Cornelius plunging to the ground.
Thereupon Caesar,
> blinded by grief, keeps a vigil at his son's bedside while the
gorillas put all
> the humans in the stockade and plunder the armory.
>
> Now here things become slightly complicated. We are asked to
sympathize with
> Caesar the nonviolent. We are also asked to boo the bad guys, who
are the
> human mutants from the Forbidden City. But then the demented
Darden leads his
> kamikaze raid on the healthy and uncontaminated Ape City; it is
the militarist
> gorillas that fight back the onslaught. So maybe the message is
that nonviolence
> is great if you have an army to back it up?
>
> The movie is incompetently made, which is something of a surprise
considering
> that it was directed by an old and good hand, J. Lee ("The Guns of
Navarone")
> Thompson. Transitions are ragged, a lot of the dialog is inaudible
and the
> rest is listless, and the apes spend a lot of time sitting around
discussing
> abstractions. The battle footage looks cheap. And the story is
painfully thin.
>
> "Battle" looks like the last gap of a dying series, a movie made
simply to
> wring the dollars out of any remaining ape fans. To a degree,
that's also the
> case with the new (and ninth) James Bond movie, "To Live and Let
Die." But at
> least with that one, some attempt was made to reproduce the
technical gimmicks
> and wry eroticism of the earlier films; in "Battle," there's
simply no reason
> at all for going. Anyone who hasn't had enough apes after the
first four in the
> series has probably, by now, gone ape all by himself.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks for passing this one Rory. Ebert isn't the idiot I thought he
was. LOL

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
>
> A web discovery: this old movie review of PLANET by Roger Ebert,
>
> Planet of the Apes
>
> By Roger Ebert / April 15, 1968
>
> Cast & Credits
> Taylor Charlton Heston
> Cornelius Roddy McDowall
> Zira Kim Hunter
> Dr. Zaius Maurice Evans
> Nova Linda Harrison
>
> Twentieth Century-Fox presents an Arthur P. Jacobs production,
directed by
> Franklin J. Schaffner from a screenplay by Michael Wilson and Rod
Serling.
> Photographed by Leon Shamroy. In color.
>
> My highly reliable public opinion sampling system, consisting
entirely of
> taking the word of taxi drivers for everything, leads me to the
conclusion that "
> Planet of the Apes" is one of this year's most eagerly anticipated
movies.
>
> Somehow the chemistry has gone to work, the word has gotten around
and the
> mass audience is interested. There was even a line in front of the
theater
> Friday morning, and that's a sight you don't see every day.
>
> Since "Planet" already seems to have found its audience, then, I
thought I'd
> address this review to the others -- to those who wouldn't be
caught dead
> going to see anything called "Planet of the Apes."
>
> I can understand their bias; until I started reviewing movies I
probably
> wouldn't have gone to see it either. And any number of friends
have been telling
> me they've heard it was "awful" -- when, in fact, nobody in
Chicago had seen it
> until Friday and the reviews from other cities have been pretty
good.
>
> What they were really implying was that any movie named "Planet of
the Apes''
> had to be awful. This kind of snobbery may be good for a chuckle
or two, but
> those who practice it miss a lot of entertaining movies.
>
> "Planet of the Apes" is one. It is not great, or significant, or
profound.
> Occasionally it is distractingly cute, as when the apes rewrite
one cliché after
> another: "Man see, Man do," for example, or "To apes, all men look
alike."
> but, this is part of the fun. So is that much-publicized ape
makeup: it does
> look real, by jingo, and after awhile you really do start thinking
of those apes
> as individuals.
>
> The plot is cast in the time-proven Hollywood adventure tradition.
A space
> explorer from Earth (Charlton Heston) crash-lands on an unknown
planet where
> apes rank higher than men on the evolutionary ladder. He tries to
convince his
> captors he is intelligent; there are some good action sequences;
some amusing
> twists; some easily digestible sociological and philosophical
points, and a
> thoroughly satisfactory surprise ending.
>
> Heston is by now just about the only Hollywood actor capable of
playing
> archetypal heroes -- Moses, Ben-Hur, the last man alive, etc. --
and there must be
> a reason. In stature and screen presence, he is heroic and he is
noble; you've
> got to admit it. He's right for this role, however preposterous it
really may
> be, and he carries the film effortlessly. The actors hidden behind
that ape
> makeup (Kim Hunter, Maurice Evans, Roddy McDowall, etc.) are
difficult to
> review as people, but they're fine as apes.
>
> What I'm getting at, I guess, is that "Planet of the Apes" is much
better
> than I expected it to be. It is quickly paced, completely
entertaining, and its
> philosophical pretensions don't get in the way.
>
> If you only condescend to see an adventure thriller on rare
occasions,
> condescend this time. You have nothing to lower but your brow.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks Rory. Unfortunately they don't include custom POTA DVD cases
anymore.
However, if anyone wants DVD covers based on the original One
Sheets, they are available on our internal website on the Downloads
page of the Art & Info section.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
>
> Check out the use of Dr. Zaius on this site:
>
> http://www.dvdcoverz.com/
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Well better late than never. This week's clip and questions from the
episode TOMORROW'S TIDE are now available for viewing. No more
entries for Week 5 will be permitted.

This week's weekly prize is a copy of Ape Chronicles and two vintage
POTA trading cards, one from the 1968 movie set and one from the
1973 TV set.

Week 5's winner is John Davis/DrZaiusDavis@a...

Week 5 proved to be the hardest so far and no one got all five
correct.

The current standings for the Grand Prize as well as the questions
and answers from previous weeks are available in the Database
section.
http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/database

To view this week's clip and answer the questions either click the
banner on the Yahoo Home Page
http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/Pota/ or directly
http://planetoftheapestv.150m.com/ .

Good Luck everyone!

http://www.richardkiel.com/chillermag.jpg
http://www.richardkiel.com/chiller.html"

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Does anyone have the 'Beneath' or 'Conquest/Battle' soundtracks? Is it just the music or
dialogue tied in? I have POTA with the Escape suite.
-Mark

Film Score Monthly offers both. You can get details here:

https://secure.filmscoremonthly.com/store/detailCD.asp?ID=70

https://secure.filmscoremonthly.com/store/detailCD.asp?ID=174

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <rkid67@y...> wrote:
>
>
> Does anyone have the 'Beneath' or 'Conquest/Battle' soundtracks?
Is it just the music or
> dialogue tied in? I have POTA with the Escape suite.
> -Mark

Thanks James, this site was helpful. It even lets you listen to full streams of selected songs
including 'Hail the Bomb'.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, pota@yahoogroups.com wrote:

>
>
> Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
> pota group:
>
> Who would make a better Commander &
> Chief of the military?
>
> o Ursus
> o Urko
>
>
> To vote, please visit the following web page:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/surveys?id=1447864
>

XXXXXX FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE XXXXXX

SIMIAN BOAT VETERANS FOR TRUTH FORMS ORGANIZATION
Goals are to restore honor of Mutant War vets; Bring the truth about
Ursus' service to the public

(October 19-Central City) Today, a group of Simian Boat veterans
from the unit in which General Ursus served announced the formation
of an organization, Simian Boat Veterans for Truth. The organization
has been formed in order to bring the truth about Ursus to all apes.
The organization intends to discuss Ursus' record and to request
that Ursus authorize the Ministry of Defense to release the
originals and the complete files relating to his military service
and medical military records.

The group released a historic letter (see below) expressing the
overwhelming opposition of those who served with Ursus or in his
unit to his misrepresentation of his record and the unit's record.
The letter is signed by Simian Boat veterans at all levels and from
the entire political spectrum; the entire chain of command during
the period Ursus served in Mutant War; veterans who participated in
the engagements resulting in his medals; and the majority of
officers who served with him in Forbidden Zone Division 11, the unit
in which he spent most of his four month tour of duty. Public
circulation of the letter began one week ago and collected hundreds
of signatures. The signers already make up a majority of the Simian
Vets whose addresses can be found.

Rear Admiral Octavian, (retired), Commander of Coastal Surveillance
Force Mutant War (Commander Task Force 115) and chair of the group
said, "I signed this letter because I do not believe General Ursus
is fit to be the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces. This is not
a political issue. It is a matter of his judgment, truthfulness,
reliability, loyalty and trust - all absolute tenets of command."

"We don't understand why Ursus would make the centerpiece of his
campaign an exaggerated account of his four month service in Mutant
War 33 years ago, but since he is, we believe the American public is
entitled to the truth about his service and about his charges about
war crimes and atrocities," explained Drusus, a Simian Boat veteran
who took charge of Ursus' boat a few months after Ursus' departure.


OPEN LETTER TO GENERAL URSUS

General Ursus,
We write from our common heritage as veterans of duty aboard Simian
Boats in the Mutant Wars. Indeed, you should note that a substantial
number of those men who served directly with you during your four
month tour in The Mutant Wars have signed this letter.

It is our collective judgment that, upon your return from The Mutant
Wars, you grossly and knowingly material facts as to your own
conduct in this war.

We believe you continue this conduct today by claiming "war hero"
status. In the process, we believe you continue a deception as to
your own conduct through such tactics as the disclosure of only
carefully screened portions of your military records. Both then and
now, we have concluded that you have deceived the public, and in the
process have betrayed honorable ape, to further your personal
political goals.

Your conduct is such as to raise substantive concerns as to your
honesty and your ability to serve, as you currently seek, as
Commander-in-Chief of the military services.

It is vital that the Simian public have as much information as
possible about candidates. In various ways, you have rightly called
upon Security Chief Urko to be fully accountable and to provide full
disclosure. In the same spirit, we believe it is incumbent upon you
to make your total military record open to all apes.

Specifically, we the undersigned formally request that you authorize
the Ministry of Defense to independently release your military
records (through your execution of Standard Form 180), complete and
unaltered, including your military medical records. Further, we call
upon you to correct the misconceptions your campaign seeks to create
as to your conduct while in The Mutant Wars. Permit the Simian
public the opportunity to assess your military performance upon the
record, and not upon campaign rhetoric.

General Ursus, we were there. We know the truth. We have been silent
long enough. The stakes are too great, not only for Apekind in
general but, most importantly, for those who have followed us into
service. We call upon you to provide a full, accurate accounting of
your conduct in The Mutant Wars.

Respectfully,
SIMIAN BOAT VETERANS FOR TRUTH

Hi, Menluth.

I've just been catching up on the postings (I read them on the site,
as opposed to receiving them as E-mails) and just read your query:

>Where did this writers' guide come
>from?
>Menluth.

I bought it some time ago from a movie memorabilia dealer, together
with a number of scripts.

I asked him where he'd got it from, and he couldn't remember, other
than he had bought it from another dealer at a movie memorabilia
sale...

It obviously came from someone involved with the show originally, but
beyond that...?

Best to all,

Mark.

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the pota
group.

File : /TVclip.mpeg
Uploaded by : jamesa1102 <JamesA1102@...>
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Regards,

jamesa1102 <JamesA1102@...>

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the pota
group.

File : /Calendars/November04.jpg
Uploaded by : jamesa1102 <JamesA1102@...>
Description : November '04 Calendar

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Regards,

jamesa1102 <JamesA1102@...>

http://www.fanfiction.net/list.php?categoryid=1295

25 different POTA original fan stories !

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I am chimplady on that site, Kass has some stories there also. Elaine


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

i ahve the beneath sountrack; its great.
it has dialogue snips, sound FX, and two different versions of the music.

rk <rkid67@...> wrote:


Does anyone have the 'Beneath' or 'Conquest/Battle' soundtracks? Is it just the music or
dialogue tied in? I have POTA with the Escape suite.
-Mark








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---------------------------------
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go vegetarian!


---------------------------------

XXXXXX FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE XXXXXX

MOVE APE.ORG DENOUNCES SIMIAN BOAT VETS SMEAR OF GENERAL URSUS'
MILITARY SERVICE DURING THE MUTANT WAR

(October 20-Ape City) Yesterday, a group calling themselves `Simian
Boat Veterans for Truth' issued a statement smearing General Ursus'
military service during the Mutant War. MoveApe.Org, a public
advocacy group, denounces the lies told by this partisan front group
supporting Chief Urko for Commander & Chief of the Military.
http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/surveys?id=1447864

While we honor the service of this group of Veterans, it should be
pointed out that none of them ever served with General Ursus. Every
member of the Forbidden Zone Division 11, Unit 2 (which then Lt.
Ursus was commander) had come forward to endorse Ursus for Commander
& Chief and have completely refuted the lies told by the Simian Boat
Vets. Antonious, a Private who served under Ursus, stated, "Lt.
Ursus risked his life to save mine. He is a courageous and patriotic
Ape."

Ministry of Defense records released earlier today disproved charges
by the Simian Boat Vets that Ursus didn't deserve his medals and
even that one of his wounds was self-inflicted & only a scratch. All
government documentation supports the version of events told by
General Ursus and refutes that of the Simian Boat organization.
Additionally, Marcellus (then Commander of Forbidden Zone Division
11, Unit 3) broke a 30 silence to state, "These Apes weren't there
that day. They don't know what happened. I was there and saw Ursus'
heroic actions".

MoveApe.Org believes the motive behind these attacks on General
Ursus' record to divert attention from Security Chief Urko's lack of
military service during the Mutant War.

- Son of an influential politician, Urko jumped over other qualified
apes to secure a spot in the Central City National Guard, which
excused him from service in the Forbidden Zone.

- Urko failed to show for a required physical and was transferred to
a Guard unit in the village of Kerrius.

- No one in the village of Kerrius ever saw Urko reporting for duty
with the Guard unit there and Ministry of Defense records show a pay
gap of over one year in Urko's service.

Because Security Chief Urko has refused to release all his military
records to fill in the gaps of his record, MoveApe.Org is offering
reward of 10,000 bananas for any Ape that can prove that Urko served
while assigned to the Kerrius Guard Unit. MoveApe.Org can be
contacted through our offices in Ape City and by sun signal.

Nice!...Thanks, James...

G

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, pota@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
>
> Hello,
>
> This email message is a notification to let you know that
> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the pota
> group.
>
> File : /Calendars/November04.jpg
> Uploaded by : jamesa1102 <JamesA1102@a...>
> Description : November '04 Calendar
>
> You can access this file at the URL:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/Calendars/November04.jpg
>
> To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
>
> Regards,
>
> jamesa1102 <JamesA1102@a...>

These are hilarious!

Tim

--- moveapeorg <moveapeorg@...> wrote:

>
>
> XXXXXX FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE XXXXXX
>
> MOVE APE.ORG DENOUNCES SIMIAN BOAT VETS SMEAR OF
> GENERAL URSUS'
> MILITARY SERVICE DURING THE MUTANT WAR
>
> (October 20-Ape City) Yesterday, a group calling
> themselves `Simian
> Boat Veterans for Truth' issued a statement smearing
> General Ursus'
> military service during the Mutant War. MoveApe.Org,
> a public
> advocacy group, denounces the lies told by this
> partisan front group
> supporting Chief Urko for Commander & Chief of the
> Military.
>

http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/surveys?id=1447864

>
> While we honor the service of this group of
> Veterans, it should be
> pointed out that none of them ever served with
> General Ursus. Every
> member of the Forbidden Zone Division 11, Unit 2
> (which then Lt.
> Ursus was commander) had come forward to endorse
> Ursus for Commander
> & Chief and have completely refuted the lies told by
> the Simian Boat
> Vets. Antonious, a Private who served under Ursus,
> stated, "Lt.
> Ursus risked his life to save mine. He is a
> courageous and patriotic
> Ape."
>
> Ministry of Defense records released earlier today
> disproved charges
> by the Simian Boat Vets that Ursus didn't deserve
> his medals and
> even that one of his wounds was self-inflicted &
> only a scratch. All
> government documentation supports the version of
> events told by
> General Ursus and refutes that of the Simian Boat
> organization.
> Additionally, Marcellus (then Commander of Forbidden
> Zone Division
> 11, Unit 3) broke a 30 silence to state, "These Apes
> weren't there
> that day. They don't know what happened. I was there
> and saw Ursus'
> heroic actions".
>
> MoveApe.Org believes the motive behind these attacks
> on General
> Ursus' record to divert attention from Security
> Chief Urko's lack of
> military service during the Mutant War.
>
> - Son of an influential politician, Urko jumped over
> other qualified
> apes to secure a spot in the Central City National
> Guard, which
> excused him from service in the Forbidden Zone.
>
> - Urko failed to show for a required physical and
> was transferred to
> a Guard unit in the village of Kerrius.
>
> - No one in the village of Kerrius ever saw Urko
> reporting for duty
> with the Guard unit there and Ministry of Defense
> records show a pay
> gap of over one year in Urko's service.
>
> Because Security Chief Urko has refused to release
> all his military
> records to fill in the gaps of his record,
> MoveApe.Org is offering
> reward of 10,000 bananas for any Ape that can prove
> that Urko served
> while assigned to the Kerrius Guard Unit.
> MoveApe.Org can be
> contacted through our offices in Ape City and by sun
> signal.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

LOL...Very clever...

G

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "moveapeorg" <moveapeorg@y...> wrote:
>
>
> XXXXXX FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE XXXXXX
>
> MOVE APE.ORG DENOUNCES SIMIAN BOAT VETS SMEAR OF GENERAL URSUS'
> MILITARY SERVICE DURING THE MUTANT WAR
>
> (October 20-Ape City) Yesterday, a group calling themselves `Simian
> Boat Veterans for Truth' issued a statement smearing General Ursus'
> military service during the Mutant War. MoveApe.Org, a public
> advocacy group, denounces the lies told by this partisan front
group
> supporting Chief Urko for Commander & Chief of the Military.
> http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/surveys?id=1447864
>
> While we honor the service of this group of Veterans, it should be
> pointed out that none of them ever served with General Ursus. Every
> member of the Forbidden Zone Division 11, Unit 2 (which then Lt.
> Ursus was commander) had come forward to endorse Ursus for
Commander
> & Chief and have completely refuted the lies told by the Simian
Boat
> Vets. Antonious, a Private who served under Ursus, stated, "Lt.
> Ursus risked his life to save mine. He is a courageous and
patriotic
> Ape."
>
> Ministry of Defense records released earlier today disproved
charges
> by the Simian Boat Vets that Ursus didn't deserve his medals and
> even that one of his wounds was self-inflicted & only a scratch.
All
> government documentation supports the version of events told by
> General Ursus and refutes that of the Simian Boat organization.
> Additionally, Marcellus (then Commander of Forbidden Zone Division
> 11, Unit 3) broke a 30 silence to state, "These Apes weren't there
> that day. They don't know what happened. I was there and saw Ursus'
> heroic actions".
>
> MoveApe.Org believes the motive behind these attacks on General
> Ursus' record to divert attention from Security Chief Urko's lack
of
> military service during the Mutant War.
>
> - Son of an influential politician, Urko jumped over other
qualified
> apes to secure a spot in the Central City National Guard, which
> excused him from service in the Forbidden Zone.
>
> - Urko failed to show for a required physical and was transferred
to
> a Guard unit in the village of Kerrius.
>
> - No one in the village of Kerrius ever saw Urko reporting for duty
> with the Guard unit there and Ministry of Defense records show a
pay
> gap of over one year in Urko's service.
>
> Because Security Chief Urko has refused to release all his military
> records to fill in the gaps of his record, MoveApe.Org is offering
> reward of 10,000 bananas for any Ape that can prove that Urko
served
> while assigned to the Kerrius Guard Unit. MoveApe.Org can be
> contacted through our offices in Ape City and by sun signal.

Just received AC # 37 in the mail and wanted to compliment Terry on the great job! Looking forward to future issues!

Dan


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I was just wondering if anybody else had seen the buldge under Ursus'
uniform while he was making his famous "the only good human is a dead
human" speech. Is it possible that Dr. Zaius was feeding him lines to
try and gain support for a trip into the forbidden zone that he
secretly wanted just as bad as Ursus? And why weren't the liberal
chimps in more of an outrage?

For Immediate Release

The following statement by the Simian Boat Veterans for Truth
concerns a new ad campaign announced today by MoveApe PAC.

"We find it odd that MoveApe PAC would question the right of a group
of veterans to voice an opinion on a legitimate issue-an issue first
raised by General Ursus-and now the centerpiece of his campaign,"
said Rear Admiral Octavian, (Ret.), founder and chairman of Simian
Boat Veterans for Truth. "The 300-plus veterans who make up the
Simian Boat Veterans for Truth have every right to participate in a
public debate concerning the controversy surrounding General Ursus'
military service record. We were there. We served alongside General
Ursus and we know the history of his service. We will not be
silenced."

does this have anything to do with a riverboat named simian?

simanboatveteransfortruth <simanboatveteransfortruth@...> wrote:

For Immediate Release

The following statement by the Simian Boat Veterans for Truth
concerns a new ad campaign announced today by MoveApe PAC.

"We find it odd that MoveApe PAC would question the right of a group
of veterans to voice an opinion on a legitimate issue-an issue first
raised by General Ursus-and now the centerpiece of his campaign,"
said Rear Admiral Octavian, (Ret.), founder and chairman of Simian
Boat Veterans for Truth. "The 300-plus veterans who make up the
Simian Boat Veterans for Truth have every right to participate in a
public debate concerning the controversy surrounding General Ursus'
military service record. We were there. We served alongside General
Ursus and we know the history of his service. We will not be
silenced."









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---------------------------------
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go vegetarian!


---------------------------------

i dont think ursus would go along with that.
he would probably claim that teh device broke.

John <DrZaiusDavis@...> wrote:


I was just wondering if anybody else had seen the buldge under Ursus'
uniform while he was making his famous "the only good human is a dead
human" speech. Is it possible that Dr. Zaius was feeding him lines to
try and gain support for a trip into the forbidden zone that he
secretly wanted just as bad as Ursus? And why weren't the liberal
chimps in more of an outrage?








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---------------------------------
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To visit your group on the web, go to:
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go vegetarian!


---------------------------------

I'd appreciate hearing from people as they get their packages so I can see
how quick the mail delivery is
I am also open to constructive criticism!

URKO DENIES AFFILIATION WITH CREDIBLE SIMIAN BOAT PATRIOTS
EXERCISING THEIR RIGHT TO SPEAK FREELY ABOUT GENERAL URSUS' MEGA-
OVERRATED FORBIDDEN ZONE VACATION

Remarks by the Urko

Good afternoon. Today I wanted to come on out and talk to you folks
a little about this whole business about what General Ursus did or
didn't do while lollygagging around The Forbidden Zone during the
the Mutant War.

First of all, for the record, let me state that I am a firm believer
in positive advertising. And secondly, that I in NO way endorse the
heroic members of the Simian Boat Veterans for Truth's non-partisan
onslaught on the allegedly valiant military service of General
Ursus. Furthermore, now that the damage to ol' Droopy's post-
convention poll bubble has already been done, I call on all
organizations to stop their attacks IMMEDIATELY – before MoveApe.org
starts really spending its war chest!

The past few days, these inspiredly malicious ads have cast doubt
over General Ursus' war record, which for some reason makes him
think he's more qualified to wage a crusade. Well let me tell you
folks something: I ain't afraid of bullets, specifically because
I've never been shot at.

These Simian Boat veterans, whom I have never met, swilled beer
with, given free legal advice to, or slapped on the back after a
super exciting game of humanshoes, are just listening to their
consciences.

But let's pretend for a moment that there's a connection between my
posse of known political assassins and these self-loathing nut jobs
who want to settle a score because they didn't have the guts to
protest a war they knew was being fought poorly on every front.
Would it really matter? No, it wouldn't – because history doesn't
remember cowardly slime tactics.

And so, let it be known I condemn all attacks on Mutant War veterans
running against me after the fact. It's totally not my fault that,
for the past three days, the Ursus campaign has had to be on the
defensive, deflecting scurrilous accusations that might or might not
be true, and effectively preventing him from gaining any ground in
the polls.

On a closing note, allow me to demonstrate my respect for Mutant War
vets with the following statement: Councilor Agrippa, my newest,
bestest pal, is a true Mutant War hero, no matter how much we hate
each other. But starting now, I love Agrippa for two reasons. One,
I'm told to, and two, he's a real born-again company man, an anti-
politics politician who'll do anything to stay in Central City.
Which is why today, I'm happy to say that this year, unlike four
years ago, my operatives won't be claiming he consorted with the
enemy and became demented from his time as a POW.

See, ain't I a nice guy?

I'M CHIEF OF SECURITY URKO AND I APPROVED THIS MESSAGE.

For Immediate Release

APE CITY - During a speech today, Senator John Ursus made the
following statement in response to attacks from the Urko campaign
front group "Simian Boat Veterans for Truth:"

"Over the last week or so, a group called Simian Boat Veterans for
Truth has been attacking me. Of course, this group isn't interested
in the truth – and they're not telling the truth.

"But here's what you really need to know about them. Friends and
associates of Chief Urko fund them. They're a front for the Urko
campaign. And the fact that the Chief won't denounce what they're up
to tells you everything you need to know—he wants them to do his
dirty work.

"Thirty years ago, official reports documented my service in The
Mutant War and awarded me several medals. Thirty years ago, this was
the plain truth. It still is. And I still carry the shrapnel in my
leg from a wound in The Mutant War.

"Of course, Urko keeps telling people he would never question my
service to Apekind. Instead, he watches as a secretly funded attack
group does just that. Well, if he wants to have a debate about our
service in The Mutant War, here is my answer: `Bring it on.'

"I'm not going to let anyone question my commitment to defending
Simian—then, now, or ever. And I'm not going to let anyone attack
the sacrifice and courage of the men who saw battle with me.

"And let me make this commitment today: their lies about my record
will not stop me from fighting for jobs, health care, and our
security – the issues that really matter to Apes everywhere."

-------------------------------

COUNCILOR AGRIPPA HARSHLY CRITICIZES SIMIAN BOAT VETS AD.
"It was the same kind of deal that was pulled on me," Agrippa said,
referring to attacks on his military record 4 years ago by
supporters of Urko. At the time, Ursus and others who served in The
Mutant War came to Agrippa's defense. Ursus and Agrippa also worked
together in the on resolving the question of Ape soldiers missing in
action in The Mutant War.

"I deplore this kind of politics," Agrippa said. "I think the ad is
dishonest and dishonorable. As it is, none of these individuals
served in the unit (Ursus) commanded. Many Apes that served in his
unit have testified to his courage under fire. I think General Ursus
served honorably in The Mutant War. I think Chief Urko served
honorably in the Ape National Guard during the Mutant War."

I'M GENERAL URSUS AND I APPROVED THIS MESSAGE.

To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/surveys?id=1447864

Welcome. Feel free to browse around the group site and view its resources.

In a message dated 10/22/2004 4:10:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, STENOSAURUS@... writes:

>Hello all I just joined this Group. My name is Bruce and I'm a native New
>Yorker with an inauspicious collection of Ape stuff-some posters lobbies 8x10's
>etc. But I've been crazy about POTA since I first saw it in 1968 and continue
>to expand my collection thanks to eBay & convention purchases.
>Bruce
>

Just a brief mo to say hi to all here. Just joined the group &
suppose I'm showing me age a tad by saying that as a seriously flat
chested 12 year old I suddenly found 'hormones' and had the most
serious crush on a certain Astronaut P Burke!! Also thanks to
discerning parents who would drag me to the local Odeon to see the
films they thought were interesting I got to see most of POTA movies
too & they have always remained sharp to memory.

Leap froggin from the 70's to the present tho' I'm sad to say that I
didn't really enjoy Burtons latest foray into the ape world - &
thought it could have been so much more. Wahlberg may be prettier
than Heston but he just didn't carry the movie in my eyes. Bit of a
waste all in all as the potential rejuvination of POTA could have
been so much more.

Still a Burke fan ... he'll always make me have a smile. Got the
DVD tv collection and have the odd moment where I have to pause and
watch certain bare-chested, sweat drenched, gorgeous mode scenes in
the privacy of my living room all alone.. Grin!

Delurking for the mo, Rozzy.

Great to have ou on board...Feel free to check out our features...

Glen

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "rozjan07" <rozjan07@y...> wrote:
>
>
> Just a brief mo to say hi to all here. Just joined the group &
> suppose I'm showing me age a tad by saying that as a seriously flat
> chested 12 year old I suddenly found 'hormones' and had the most
> serious crush on a certain Astronaut P Burke!! Also thanks to
> discerning parents who would drag me to the local Odeon to see the
> films they thought were interesting I got to see most of POTA
movies
> too & they have always remained sharp to memory.
>
> Leap froggin from the 70's to the present tho' I'm sad to say that
I
> didn't really enjoy Burtons latest foray into the ape world - &
> thought it could have been so much more. Wahlberg may be prettier
> than Heston but he just didn't carry the movie in my eyes. Bit of
a
> waste all in all as the potential rejuvination of POTA could have
> been so much more.
>
> Still a Burke fan ... he'll always make me have a smile. Got the
> DVD tv collection and have the odd moment where I have to pause and
> watch certain bare-chested, sweat drenched, gorgeous mode scenes in
> the privacy of my living room all alone.. Grin!
>
> Delurking for the mo, Rozzy.

Welcome Rozzy. You're not the only member with a crush on Pete
Burke, right Kass;-) You should check out the TV series contest by
clicking the banner on the Yahoo home page.
http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/

I think you'll like this week's clip:-)

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "rozjan07" <rozjan07@y...> wrote:
>
>
> Just a brief mo to say hi to all here. Just joined the group &
> suppose I'm showing me age a tad by saying that as a seriously
flat
> chested 12 year old I suddenly found 'hormones' and had the most
> serious crush on a certain Astronaut P Burke!! Also thanks to
> discerning parents who would drag me to the local Odeon to see the
> films they thought were interesting I got to see most of POTA
movies
> too & they have always remained sharp to memory.
>
> Leap froggin from the 70's to the present tho' I'm sad to say that
I
> didn't really enjoy Burtons latest foray into the ape world - &
> thought it could have been so much more. Wahlberg may be prettier
> than Heston but he just didn't carry the movie in my eyes. Bit of
a
> waste all in all as the potential rejuvination of POTA could have
> been so much more.
>
> Still a Burke fan ... he'll always make me have a smile. Got the
> DVD tv collection and have the odd moment where I have to pause
and
> watch certain bare-chested, sweat drenched, gorgeous mode scenes
in
> the privacy of my living room all alone.. Grin!
>
> Delurking for the mo, Rozzy.

Response to Councilor Agrippa

Simian Boat Veterans for Truth has more than 250 members, many of
whom were wounded or highly decorated in the Mutant War.

We purchased with our blood and service the right to be heard, to
set the record straight about our unit, and to tell the truth about
General Ursus' military service record.

We respect Councilor Agrippa's right to express his opinion and we
hope he extends to us the same respect and courtesy, particularly
since we served with General Ursus, we knew him well and Councilor
Agrippa did not.

-- Rear Admiral Octavian (ret.), Founder and Chairman of Simian Boat
Veterans for Truth

>
> COUNCILOR AGRIPPA HARSHLY CRITICIZES SIMIAN BOAT VETS AD.
> "It was the same kind of deal that was pulled on me," Agrippa

said,

> referring to attacks on his military record 4 years ago by
> supporters of Urko. At the time, Ursus and others who served in

The

> Mutant War came to Agrippa's defense. Ursus and Agrippa also

worked

> together in the on resolving the question of Ape soldiers missing

in

> action in The Mutant War.
>
> "I deplore this kind of politics," Agrippa said. "I think the ad

is

> dishonest and dishonorable. As it is, none of these individuals
> served in the unit (Ursus) commanded. Many Apes that served in his
> unit have testified to his courage under fire. I think General

Ursus

> served honorably in The Mutant War. I think Chief Urko served
> honorably in the Ape National Guard during the Mutant War."
>
>
> To vote, please visit the following web page:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/surveys?id=1447864

could someone explain this? is it an ad or is somebody tripping or
what?


--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "simanboatveteransfortruth"
<simanboatveteransfortruth@y...> wrote:

>
>
> Response to Councilor Agrippa
>
> Simian Boat Veterans for Truth has more than 250 members, many of
> whom were wounded or highly decorated in the Mutant War.
>
> We purchased with our blood and service the right to be heard, to
> set the record straight about our unit, and to tell the truth

about

> General Ursus' military service record.
>
> We respect Councilor Agrippa's right to express his opinion and we
> hope he extends to us the same respect and courtesy, particularly
> since we served with General Ursus, we knew him well and Councilor
> Agrippa did not.
>
> -- Rear Admiral Octavian (ret.), Founder and Chairman of Simian

Boat

> Veterans for Truth
>
>
>
>
> >
> > COUNCILOR AGRIPPA HARSHLY CRITICIZES SIMIAN BOAT VETS AD.
> > "It was the same kind of deal that was pulled on me," Agrippa
> said,
> > referring to attacks on his military record 4 years ago by
> > supporters of Urko. At the time, Ursus and others who served in
> The
> > Mutant War came to Agrippa's defense. Ursus and Agrippa also
> worked
> > together in the on resolving the question of Ape soldiers

missing

> in
> > action in The Mutant War.
> >
> > "I deplore this kind of politics," Agrippa said. "I think the ad
> is
> > dishonest and dishonorable. As it is, none of these individuals
> > served in the unit (Ursus) commanded. Many Apes that served in

his

> > unit have testified to his courage under fire. I think General
> Ursus
> > served honorably in The Mutant War. I think Chief Urko served
> > honorably in the Ape National Guard during the Mutant War."
> >
> >
> > To vote, please visit the following web page:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/surveys?id=1447864

Hi, I always found it interesting how a plague was supposed to have
killed of all of the dogs and cats (in Conquest), but they reappeared
in 2 of the tv series episodes (Escape from Tomorrow and Legacy). I
guess not all of them died.

galen

First, welcome to the group Galen. Good to have you here.

The dog in the TV series has been the subject of debate among POTA
fans for years.

For some, they take it as an indication that TV series is a
different POTA universe than the films (like the novel and 2001
remake). Whether it was purposeful by the producers or just occured
because the writers were unaware of what happened in the films is
unclear.

The website "Central City Archive" has posted a copy of the series
bible and the question is unresolved. The guide makes no mention of
the films and what was established in the films. To me, this
indicates that the series producers were going down there own path
and didn't want to constrain themselves by following the movies
continuity. Since the guide does not specifically say the series was
seperate from the films, it did leave the door open for them to tie
into the movies at later date if they wanted.

Some fans feel who believe in two timelines, believe that the dog
was an indicator that the TV series took place in the original
timeline that Taylor & Brent later landed in because Cornelius &
Zira never specifically said all dogs & cats had died in the plague.
My personal opinion is that that is just playing with semantics to
fit a theory.

Whether you believe in two timelines or one, the dog in 'Escape from
Tomorrow' could have a number of explainations. One is that the Apes
bread a new species of dogs over time. They did have 1000 years to
do it so it is possible. Another is that some dogs in the wild did
survive the plague. Armando does say that the plague was brought
back by one of the astronauts. This would indicate that it was
carried and transmitted by humans. Thus, all dogs and cats in human
populated areas died while those in the wild with no human contact
survived. These were late discovered by the apes long after the
plague had died out.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "cybergalen2002" <cybergalen@h...>
wrote:

>
>
> Hi, I always found it interesting how a plague was supposed to

have

> killed of all of the dogs and cats (in Conquest), but they

reappeared

> in 2 of the tv series episodes (Escape from Tomorrow and Legacy).

I

> guess not all of them died.
>
> galen

Michael,

We're just poking some fun at the US election. All members should
feel free to vote in our poll:

> Who would make a better Commander &
> Chief of the military?
>
> o Ursus
> o Urko
>
>
> To vote, please visit the following web page:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/surveys?id=1447864

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "potsmoka1965" <potsmoka1965@y...>
wrote:

>
>
> could someone explain this? is it an ad or is somebody tripping

or

> what?
>
>

Okay, this is a question for all those action figure geeks in the
group! It's Saturday, so of course I'm working on how best to
display my POTA figures. My question is about the 1998 Hasbro Dr.
Zaius action figure. He comes with two accessories: a walking stick
and a copy of some important simian scroll. The scroll accessory has
a pole sticking out of one end with which to carry it. Should Zaius
be holding the pole with the scrolls facing up or hanging down? Any
evidence from the films to back this up? I would not want to be
lacking in reverence for the Sacred Scrolls, so the direction is
important!

From the Lawgiver's scriptorium,
Menluth.

I was just looking over the ongoing results for the science fiction
fan poll in our polls section. It is interesting that no one (of
those who have voted yet) is a fan of POTA without also being a fan
of either Star Wars or Star Trek. So far, Star Wars has greater
appeal to POTA fans than Star Trek. There is still time to vote!

Menluth.

Poll Question:
As a fan of POTA, which of the following other great science fiction
series appeals to you more?

Star Wars
Star Trek
Neither. POTA alone rules the planet !!

Heard from Brian of Apemania. Next month Microsoft-Intel will be
launching a major ad campaign featuring Dr. Zaius. Not sure if this
will be in the US or worldwide, but lets all keep an eye out and
maybe we can post copies here in the group files.

I wonder what people think about the cartoons (sorry, I'm new here if
you already discussed this topic).

I just watched them all again. I found it an interesting difference
that the apes had airplanes and other technology. But, I kind of
discount the cartoons from a real timeline because I consider the
cartoons more for kids.

Galen

You guys are really knowledgeable!

Another thing I noticed is that, in the films, they refer
to "mankind". But then in the tv series (I forgot which episode at
the moment) Urko says "I'll alert my *men*" or something to that
effect. Maybe it was in "The Tyrant" episode of "The Cure". Anyways,
it seemed strange he didn't say "gorillas" as he usually does.

Galen

In a message dated 10/23/2004 10:54:34 AM Pacific Standard Time,
JamesA1102@... writes:
Heard from Brian of Apemania. Next month Microsoft-Intel will be
launching a major ad campaign featuring Dr. Zaius. Not sure if this
will be in the US or worldwide, but lets all keep an eye out and
maybe we can post copies here in the group files.
James,

Sounds good to me...

G


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 10/23/2004 1:44:39 PM Central Standard Time,
cybergalen@... writes:

> Another thing I noticed is that, in the films, they refer
> to "mankind". But then in the tv series (I forgot which episode at
> the moment) Urko says "I'll alert my *men*" or something to that
> effect. Maybe it was in "The Tyrant" episode or "The Cure". Anyways,
> it seemed strange he didn't say "gorillas" as he usually does.

That is the one thing that bugs me too, having the Apes refer to each other
as "men" (or even when the Astronauts do it, like Burke says "He didn't look
like one of Urko's men..." They should have said something like "One of Urko's
troopers" or something like that...

It is stupid to have any ape referred to as a "man"/"men"... The Apes hate
humanity, so why would they refer to each other as such, that never made sense
to me... And, by the way, the first screw up of that (Apes reffered to as
"men") WAS in the films... BENEATH was the first: Ursus refers to the soldiers as
"men" in the underground shoot out... He sees one of the astronauts and says
"Men, over there..." (Also, in his novelizations, Effinger uses that "men" screw
up too...)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I think most people that have seen them like the cartoons. Some
better than the TV series and most better than the remake. They do
have a certain charm to them. One of our members is working on
having the series transfered to DVD. Stay tuned.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "cybergalen2002" <cybergalen@h...>
wrote:

>
>
> I wonder what people think about the cartoons (sorry, I'm new here

if

> you already discussed this topic).
>
> I just watched them all again. I found it an interesting

difference

> that the apes had airplanes and other technology. But, I kind of
> discount the cartoons from a real timeline because I consider the
> cartoons more for kids.
>
> Galen

That was not the first time. In Beneath when Brent starts banging on
the organ (No jokes Jeff!), Ursus yells, "Men over there". He should
of said something more like 'Apes over there'. But the writers and
actors were human.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "cybergalen2002" <cybergalen@h...>
wrote:

>
>
> You guys are really knowledgeable!
>
> Another thing I noticed is that, in the films, they refer
> to "mankind". But then in the tv series (I forgot which episode at
> the moment) Urko says "I'll alert my *men*" or something to that
> effect. Maybe it was in "The Tyrant" episode of "The Cure".

Anyways,

> it seemed strange he didn't say "gorillas" as he usually does.
>
> Galen