--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <rkid67@y...> wrote:

>
>
> Cornelius's features look more like those of Caesar's at the end of

Conquest. Not bad

> though.
>

Caeser's features were subtly different. He had a little extra "skin"
right above his eyebrow ridge and under his muzzle, also much flatter
hair than Cornelius. In "Planet", Corny had a slight part down the
middle of his hair and it was a little poofy with a shorter beard.
By "Escape", his wig changed. It was much neater and smoother with
longer hair along the bottom.

At this Sideshow Collectors board, they disscus Cornelius's coif:

http://p078.ezboard.com/fsideshowfreaksfrm7.showMessage?topicID=1221.topic

> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <ursus3978@a...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Here's another good review (with picutres) of Sideshow's latest

12"

> > POTA figures - Cornelius and Zira:
> >
> > http://www.mwctoys.com/REVIEW_122904.htm
> >
> > They look pretty good. I can't wait to get 'em.
> >
> > -Ray
> > rayalma.com

I just don't think Cornelius is right. Of course, he and Zira would
have been my first pick for a Sideshow investment if I had stopped
at my first pick. I ended up choosing five that I would like. I
didn't choose the first Taylor, nor did I choose the Taylor with
Nova set. I did, however, choose the bearded astronaut Taylor
as "my" Taylor. I also chose the first Zaius, Zira, Cornelius, and
the gorilla soldier. My hope is for a Lucius, a baby Milo (maybe a
full chimp family set), and an ape-o-naut set.

In the meantime... about Cornelius. I don't remember in Planet that
Cornelius ever looked this harsh. In fact, I remember Cornelius as
being very gentle looking. (Cute) Even the hands, curled (probably
to grasp his "extras"), look as though he is very angry! The map is
cool, although I haven't opened it up yet to see if it is accurate
and the doll and scroll are okay. (I wonder why they include the
scroll with the chimps, as that isn't really "their thing.") A
shovel with Cornelius would have been cool, the glasses, the paper
airplane. I like his pants. They seem to be like those in the
movie. The rest of the costume is baggy, especially the knit
cuffs! I think the colors are good, with green glyphs on the
sleeves and a brown leather "bib" on the tunic. But, check this out
guys... The feet are two very different sizes!! What is with that?

I'm disappointed in Cornelius. He just isn't the cute, friendly,
peaceful, sweet chimp guy that I fell in love with. What will they
do for Caesar, who IS a more agitated sort of chimp?

--Helen

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <ursus3978@a...> wrote:
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <rkid67@y...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Cornelius's features look more like those of Caesar's at the end
of
> Conquest. Not bad
> > though.
> >
>
> Caeser's features were subtly different. He had a little
extra "skin"
> right above his eyebrow ridge and under his muzzle, also much
flatter
> hair than Cornelius. In "Planet", Corny had a slight part down the
> middle of his hair and it was a little poofy with a shorter beard.
> By "Escape", his wig changed. It was much neater and smoother with
> longer hair along the bottom.
>
> At this Sideshow Collectors board, they disscus Cornelius's coif:
>
> http://p078.ezboard.com/fsideshowfreaksfrm7.showMessage?
topicID=1221.topic
>
>
>
> > --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <ursus3978@a...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Here's another good review (with picutres) of Sideshow's
latest
> 12"
> > > POTA figures - Cornelius and Zira:
> > >
> > > http://www.mwctoys.com/REVIEW_122904.htm
> > >
> > > They look pretty good. I can't wait to get 'em.
> > >
> > > -Ray
> > > rayalma.com

Having already written about Cornelius and having expressed
my "druthers" let me tell you about Zira...

I don't know how they did it, but they captured the impish glint in
Zira's eyes and her expressive grin. She has the scrunched almost
squinty look of our Zira when she is up to something. I mentioned
somewhere, it may have been POTADG, that I basically like her
costume, although I wish it were more accurate in the bits that you
don't see -- the way it's "held together." Also, I remember the
knit cuffs as being a heathered knit; this, as with other POTA toys,
has a solid colored knit. I like the tunic! It is made with velcro
to open at the left side front, as Kim Hunter's costume did! And it
hangs nicely. I love the look. I think they did a nice job. The
pocket and crescent glyph don't line up, and that could become more
obvious to me as a fault with the costume as time goes by.

I have a hard time thinking of anything "bad" to say about her. She
looks intelligent and peaceful. Very nice job.

Again, I don't understand why they pack her with scrolls. The paper
airplane is okay -- looks like a packaging mistake in the box,
though. The pad and pen are okay. Maybe she should have the muzzle
that Taylor had been wearing -- to show that she had released him.
(It would be fun to use it on him later in "play.") Or maybe treats
for the caged humans.

Another idea for Sideshow would be akin to the Cabbage Patch Doll
idea. It would be very cool if they released a cage with one or two
random scruffy humans. No choice of gender, dressed in rags, able
to hang from the bars, with additional random humans available for
purchase separately.

I'm no reviewer, but I do love toys.

--Helen

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <ursus3978@a...> wrote:
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <rkid67@y...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Cornelius's features look more like those of Caesar's at the end
of
> Conquest. Not bad
> > though.
> >
>
> Caeser's features were subtly different. He had a little
extra "skin"
> right above his eyebrow ridge and under his muzzle, also much
flatter
> hair than Cornelius. In "Planet", Corny had a slight part down the
> middle of his hair and it was a little poofy with a shorter beard.
> By "Escape", his wig changed. It was much neater and smoother with
> longer hair along the bottom.
>
> At this Sideshow Collectors board, they disscus Cornelius's coif:
>
> http://p078.ezboard.com/fsideshowfreaksfrm7.showMessage?
topicID=1221.topic
>
>
>
> > --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <ursus3978@a...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Here's another good review (with picutres) of Sideshow's
latest
> 12"
> > > POTA figures - Cornelius and Zira:
> > >
> > > http://www.mwctoys.com/REVIEW_122904.htm
> > >
> > > They look pretty good. I can't wait to get 'em.
> > >
> > > -Ray
> > > rayalma.com

Wow! I would have thought someone would have said something about
the TIME magazine cover by now. Does anyone even dispute my choice
of Chief Urko?

That's an interesting theory. I'm not even going to try to find the
holes in it. There are others that will do that.
As I said before if a theory works for you and makes you happy, then
go for it.
Personally, I'm a purist and like to go with what was the intention
of the original producers & writers.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "nlmoxham" <neilmoxham@e...> wrote:
>
> I have a theory about the sequence of events in the TV and
animated
> series', there are still many contradictions but it does
> tie up a few loose ends:
> Firstly, in the opening episode of the TV series Zaius, Urko
> and Galen discuss the appearance of
> astronauts "more than ten years ago" which raises more questions
> than it answers. This hints at a whole part of the apes
> history which has been covered up entirely.
> Secondly, the fact that Zaius and Urko appear in both series
> is too much of a coincidence (even if you accept that
> Zaius, Cornelius, Zira and Nova all reappear in the first movie).
> Thirdly, the ultimate fate of all these characters is left
> open to speculation since both series were cancelled
> prematurely.
> And fourthly, most crucially, the ships chronometers cannot
> be trusted: Taylor's clock showed the year 3978 when
> in fact Brent, arriving after him, read the year as 3955, the year
> of Earth's destruction, so even the movie series
> contradicted itself. The animated series showed the year 3979,
> obviously suffering from the same malfunction as Taylor's.
> The problem with making the different versions tie in is the dates
> that are mentioned once in each version, and maybe we
> shouldn't rely on them completely. Even Virdon and Burke are
> uncertain that their clock showed the correct year but perhaps
> their's at least was about right.I reckon that the events in the
> animated series are the events recalled by Zaius
> and Urko ten years later, in the TV series, and that these two
> characters alone know the full history of the apes and have
> chosen to keep it from even other apes...
> OK, so I know you have to ask about the technology of the
> apes in the animated series, but perhaps they stumbled
> upon a deserted human city and used it's resources (military
> supplies, fuel, etc.) until they were exhausted as in the
> Adventure Comics' Ape City. It's a stretch of the imagination, but
> it fills in the gaps in the story. I also have ideas
> about Brent attacking the Ape leaders after his friends were
killed
> (in episode 1 of the TV series, Zaius has a grenade
> in his office which was found on a human attacker).

Thanks Ray. I really like the close-up pictures in their reviews.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <ursus3978@a...> wrote:
>
>
> Here's another good review (with picutres) of Sideshow's latest
12"
> POTA figures - Cornelius and Zira:
>
> http://www.mwctoys.com/REVIEW_122904.htm
>
> They look pretty good. I can't wait to get 'em.
>
> -Ray
> rayalma.com

I agree about Cornelius' expression. He does look way too harsh. But
even the Medicom Cornelius was a bit off.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "ape_mom" <sand_hill_school@y...> wrote:
>
>
> In the meantime... about Cornelius. I don't remember in Planet
that
> Cornelius ever looked this harsh. In fact, I remember Cornelius
as
> being very gentle looking. (Cute) Even the hands, curled
(probably
> to grasp his "extras"), look as though he is very angry!

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I want to ask this delicately, because it would be a shame if it is
taken the wrong way...

It seems to me that Zira is talked about less than other POTA
characters. She is equally as important to the cast of characters
as Cornelius, Taylor, or Zaius. I don't know if it's a guy thing --
that guys just don't relate to her character -- or if there is
something that I just don't get. (In case you haven't noticed, it
seems most of you are guys!)

It's the Sideshow doll that brought this to my attention again. The
Zira doll is the best one yet (said humbly and without bias)... but
no one is talking about her! Maybe she's too much like a Barbie
doll, and you guys would rather collect GI Joes! She is such an
important part of the movie that I really can't figure it out!
And... she was, basically, the only example of a female ape. (If
Sideshow does Conquest and Battle then I am wrong, but I'm doubtful
they will go much further with the Apes series.)

Am I the only one to think that Zira doesn't get her fair share of
discussion?

--Helen

.html.htmlIn a message dated 12/30/2004 8:00:50 AM Central Standard Time, sand_hill_school@... writes:

My hope is for an ape-o-naut set.

If that is the case, why not just buy another set of Zira and Cornelius, and then scout out GI Joe Astronaut gear and customize your own set? I don't think SideShow is going to do the Apeonauts anyway... And as far as the Apes family set, that'd be a big waste of money... You'd be buying the two same apes with the inclusion of an infant? Again, customize this set yourself... Go to a store and find yourself a miniature chimp figure to place in with them as baby Milo (Caesar)...

<.html <.html

I agree about Zira, Kim Hunter's ape look is captured pretty well in
her head sculpt. Cornelius is my favorite Ape (and I have almost
every figure of him), so I'm still urging to snag up the Sideshow
version despite the angsty expression.

He has had a brooding look when looking at his face on some Apes
media, like DVD covers and such though...but granted it is a little
different in the Sideshow version. Maybe they'll correct it in a later
sequel Cornelius figure, or a chimp-suited Ceasar from Battle.

Sideshow has been hit or miss with some of their human likenesses
before too. Taylor is much more accurate than that 12'' Hasbro
version though something about him isn't 100% Heston. (I wonder if
there'll be a Beneath version later?)

Ape-O-Nauts, Escape's Ape family, and some human prisoners would be
great ideas. I really hope that Sideshow milks this license while
they can.

Mike

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "ape_mom" <sand_hill_school@y...> wrote:
>
>
> Having already written about Cornelius and having expressed
> my "druthers" let me tell you about Zira...
>
> I don't know how they did it, but they captured the impish glint in
> Zira's eyes and her expressive grin. She has the scrunched almost
> squinty look of our Zira when she is up to something. I mentioned
> somewhere, it may have been POTADG, that I basically like her
> costume, although I wish it were more accurate in the bits that you
> don't see -- the way it's "held together." Also, I remember the
> knit cuffs as being a heathered knit; this, as with other POTA toys,
> has a solid colored knit. I like the tunic! It is made with velcro
> to open at the left side front, as Kim Hunter's costume did! And it
> hangs nicely. I love the look. I think they did a nice job. The
> pocket and crescent glyph don't line up, and that could become more
> obvious to me as a fault with the costume as time goes by.

These are good ideas, Cougar, but if they don't do a Milo then there
is no way to customize this set. And you're right about the chimp
family, except that this would be a great opportunity to also
introduce the carpet bag and the "Shopping" wardrobe. Different
expressions would also be cool.

--Helen

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, mlccougar@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 12/30/2004 8:00:50 AM Central Standard Time,
> sand_hill_school@y... writes:
>
> > My hope is for an ape-o-naut set.
>
> If that is the case, why not just buy another set of Zira and
Cornelius, and
> then scout out GI Joe Astronaut gear and customize your own set? I
don't think
> SideShow is going to do the Apeonauts anyway... And as far as the
Apes family
> set, that'd be a big waste of money... You'd be buying the two
same apes with
> the inclusion of an infant? Again, customize this set yourself...
Go to a
> store and find yourself a miniature chimp figure to place in with
them as baby
> Milo (Caesar)...

.html Love the Time magazine cover,good choice of ape! Elaine<.html

.html <.html

Well, ok Taylor and Zaius are obvious, they're protaganist and
antagonist. Taylor's the human perspective, Zaius is all about hatin'
humans. I do dig Cornelius alot (and really I prefer the Chimps above
the other ape types anyday), and I believe Zira and he are best as a
pair. They do sort've compliment eachother in ways. But I dunno...it
may be because Roddy was Cornelius, Ceasar, and Galen, hence why
Cornelius gets more popularity than she. Plus 20th Century Fox uses
his image more often than hers, he's become more of an immediate icon
for the films. Besides the damaged Liberty statue.

That's not to say Zira's not an important character at all of course.
She was the one to take special interest in Taylor in the first place,
and was more of an outspoken rebel than Cornelius (ala the sacred
scrolls skepticism for one thing). She was also the most personable
out of all the Apes I say.

I don't mind female figures but the Sideshow ones are pricey, so I get
picky. I'd still love a Zira Medicom figure but they're nearly
impossible to find.

PS- I will say it's odd that Habro's 6'' 30th Anniv. line had to
include an extra gorilla thug, but no Zira. (Even if the line wasn't
very well produced) As apes fans go it'd make sense to include her,
but then I hear that Princess Leia star wars figures began a trend of
trimming down female action figures due to sales issues. If it's a
little boy, I can understand if he doesn't want something girl-like,
but adult collectors are more completists. It's actually changed
somewhat these days because some female figures are actually more
sought after.



Zira was an importan character. --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "ape_mom"
<sand_hill_school@y...> wrote:

>
>
> I want to ask this delicately, because it would be a shame if it is
> taken the wrong way...
>
> It seems to me that Zira is talked about less than other POTA
> characters. She is equally as important to the cast of characters
> as Cornelius, Taylor, or Zaius. I don't know if it's a guy thing --
> that guys just don't relate to her character -- or if there is
> something that I just don't get. (In case you haven't noticed, it
> seems most of you are guys!)
>
> It's the Sideshow doll that brought this to my attention again. The
> Zira doll is the best one yet (said humbly and without bias)... but
> no one is talking about her! Maybe she's too much like a Barbie
> doll, and you guys would rather collect GI Joes! She is such an
> important part of the movie that I really can't figure it out!
> And... she was, basically, the only example of a female ape. (If
> Sideshow does Conquest and Battle then I am wrong, but I'm doubtful
> they will go much further with the Apes series.)
>
> Am I the only one to think that Zira doesn't get her fair share of
> discussion?
>
> --Helen

It's a cool pic, James. I just wasn't sure if it political
commentary on Bush, or if this was the 3085 issue of Time magazine,
or the 2004 issue in which case there weren't any accomplishments of
his listed for 2004. But, it's still a clever idea.

John O.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "James" <JamesA1102@a...> wrote:
>
>
> Wow! I would have thought someone would have said something about
> the TIME magazine cover by now. Does anyone even dispute my choice
> of Chief Urko?

.html

In a message dated 12/30/2004 8:00:50 A.M. Central Standard Time, sand_hill_school@... writes:

I'm disappointed in Cornelius.  He just isn't the cute, friendly,
peaceful, sweet chimp guy that I fell in love with.

 

I don't remember him that way at all.

With the exception of the first scene

when they're planning their date.  In

fact from the moment he found out

about Taylor he seemed pissed off.

In fact if it weren't for Zira I think he

would have happily given Taylor up

to Zaius and the gorillas.  Taylor is

more of a rival to him than anything.

He's pissed off when Taylor conflicts

with his theories.  He's pissed off

when he demands a rifle.  He's

pissed off when he's playing with

the doll.  And he's really pissed

when he kisses Zira.  He's just

seems generally pissed off through

the entire movie. And if he wasn't

so whipped he'd have shot Taylor

himself!

 

<.html

.html I am suppose to receive Zira and Cornelius this week but since I am snowed in I guess they won't get here until next week. It's hard to imagine Cornelius being angry,usually the gorillas are the angry ones. Elaine<.html

.html

In a message dated 12/30/2004 10:27:34 A.M. Central Standard Time, sand_hill_school@... writes:

She is equally as important to the cast of characters
as Cornelius, Taylor, or Zaius.  I don't know if it's a guy thing --
that guys just don't relate to her character

 

Speak for yourself!  I collect Zira exclusively.

Not that I wouldn't want the others, but funds

for figures can be limited.  The only Zira I don't

have is the Mego, but it really looks nothing

like her.  But in film, we often talk bout a

secret owner of the story, and I think Zira

is the secret owner of POTA.  If you read

the book it's more obvious than the film,

admittedly.  But I was glad to see the

relationship developed, if only as a

subtext. In another time and place

Taylor would have rode off with Zira

on the back of his horse.  But he

chose Beauty over Brains.  To

this day I'm one of those guys

who doesn't dig dumb bimbos.

I prefer the librarian with a

wild side, who's hot even

with her glasses on.

 

<.html

.html

In a message dated 12/30/2004 8:40:53 A.M. Central Standard Time, sand_hill_school@... writes:

I'm no reviewer, but I do love toys. 

--Helen

Ahh.. A woman after my own heart.

Now if you're only single and like

cartoons as well.

<.html

.html

In a message dated 12/30/2004 11:12:39 A.M. Central Standard Time, sand_hill_school@... writes:

And you're right about the chimp
family, except that this would be a great opportunity to also
introduce the carpet bag and the "Shopping" wardrobe. 

Now that would be cool!

 

<.html

The reason behind the choice of Urko was simple. 2004 was the 30th
anniversary of the TV series so it needed to be an ape who
distinctively represented the series. Urko had an original name &
costume for the TV series and was played by an actor not associated
with the films.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "John O." <jspy6688@y...> wrote:
>
>
> It's a cool pic, James. I just wasn't sure if it political
> commentary on Bush, or if this was the 3085 issue of Time
magazine,
> or the 2004 issue in which case there weren't any accomplishments
of
> his listed for 2004. But, it's still a clever idea.
>
> John O.
>

Ah, I forgot about the 30th anniversary (missed the TV contest,
too). It all makes sense now. Good choice.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "James" <JamesA1102@a...> wrote:
>
> The reason behind the choice of Urko was simple. 2004 was the 30th
> anniversary of the TV series so it needed to be an ape who
> distinctively represented the series. Urko had an original name &
> costume for the TV series and was played by an actor not associated
> with the films.
>

I ain't a guy!

--Helen

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 12/30/2004 10:27:34 A.M. Central Standard
Time,
> sand_hill_school@y... writes:
>
> She is equally as important to the cast of characters
> as Cornelius, Taylor, or Zaius. I don't know if it's a guy
thing --
> that guys just don't relate to her character
>
>
>
> Speak for yourself!

.html

In a message dated 12/30/2004 2:02:35 P.M. Central Standard Time, taebokitti@... writes:

Love the Time magazine cover,good choice of ape!

Link Please!

<.html

.html

In a message dated 12/30/2004 2:03:11 P.M. Central Standard Time, doctahoot@... writes:

I'd still love a Zira Medicom figure but they're nearly
impossible to find.  

 

No their not.  Here's a link  . . .

 

eBay item 5945745999 (Ends Jan-02-05 08:24:24 PST) - MEDICOM PLANTET OF THE AP

<.html

.html

In a message dated 12/30/2004 2:03:11 P.M. Central Standard Time, doctahoot@... writes:

PS- I will say it's odd that Habro's 6'' 30th Anniv.

Oh yeah...I don't have the Hasbro 12" either,

but they sucked too.

 

<.html

.html

In a message dated 12/30/2004 2:03:55 P.M. Central Standard Time, taebokitti@... writes:

It's hard to imagine Cornelius being angry,usually the gorillas are the angry ones. Elaine

 

Really? 

Here's a few quote's off the top of my head . . .

 

 

"What's so special about him?"

 

"Out of the question . . . "

 

"Flight is a scientific impossibility!"

 

"Maybe he is intelligent, but he's also crazy . . ."

 

"Do you wanna get my head chopped off?"

 

"I'm up for a raise!"

 

 "Now look here Taylor, I'm in charge of this expedition!"

 

<.html

Just come to the Yahoo Home Page:

http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 12/30/2004 2:02:35 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> taebokitti@a... writes:
>
> Love the Time magazine cover,good choice of ape!
>
>
> Link Please!

.html <.html

Just a carry on from the Sideshow posts.

I haven't got my figures yet but looking at the new close up
pictures I think they are all great sculpts. There was a picture in
the last Sideshow catalogue showing the artist sculpting Cornelius
in the Sideshow workshop. I'll try and post it.
I have looked through my (tons) of Pota pictures and all the first
film pictures of Cornelius are very stern and serious if not angry
so even though he does look a lot like Ceaser he is very much in
keeping with the first film McDowall performance. Are some of the
members getting mixed up with Escape Cornelius who was very much a
brighter written as well as acted character?

Any way great site
All the best for the new year.
John.

.html <.html

.html.htmlIn a message dated 12/30/04 6:15:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, johnbkirtley@... writes:

I haven't got my figures yet but looking at the new close up
pictures I think they are all great sculpts. There was a picture in
the last Sideshow catalogue showing the artist sculpting Cornelius
in the Sideshow workshop. I'll try and post it.
I have looked through my (tons) of Pota pictures and all the first
film pictures of Cornelius are very stern and serious if not angry

I'd like to see that.  Yes, I agree, Cornelius is 'serious" most of PLANET.

-- Rory<.html <.html

Thanks to Greg P., Marvel UK issue 11 is now available for download:

http://www.goatley.com/pota/

Hunter

.html.htmlIn a message dated 12/30/2004 11:12:48 AM Central Standard Time, sand_hill_school@... writes:

These are good ideas, Cougar, but if they don't do a Milo then there
is no way to customize this set.  And you're right about the chimp
family, except that this would be a great opportunity to also
introduce the carpet bag and the "Shopping" wardrobe.

You cancustomize it without Milo... Who says you need him? After all, as good as this character is/was, face it, his screen time can be measured in minutes.... Hardly more than a secondary character, albeit an important one...

As far as that carpet bag, they went the cheap a*s route with that... Had they had the decency to give more of a budget to begin with, then Zira would have had a proper APES designed bag, not that ugly a*s thing... That bag, and Zira and Cornelius in "human" clothes make me want to puke... The bag was just a BAD prop, given to her cause of lack of budget... And the Apes dressed in those clothes was just a mistake... I prefer the way they handle it in the novel of ESCAPE, where Zira feels all the clothes are ugly...

<.html <.html

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, mlccougar@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 12/30/2004 11:12:48 AM Central Standard Time,
> sand_hill_school@y... writes:
>
> > These are good ideas, Cougar, but if they don't do a Milo then

there

> > is no way to customize this set. And you're right about the

chimp

> > family, except that this would be a great opportunity to also
> > introduce the carpet bag and the "Shopping" wardrobe.

> You cancustomize it without Milo... Who says you need him? After

all, as good

> as this character is/was, face it, his screen time can be measured

in

> minutes.... Hardly more than a secondary character, albeit an

important one...

>

You can also just have a figure with a dark helmet on and say "That's
Sal Mineo, I mean Milo in there".
There has been such an explosion of 1/6 scale accessories over the
last couple of years that customizing other characters should be
pretty easy now. It also helps that Sideshow has produced these
shorter bodies. It will be easier to dress them in clothes from other
manufacturers.
Jumpsuits are fairly commen so "Conquest" customs will be doable.
Modern weapons are also prevelent so arming "Conquest" and "Battle"
apes will be easy.
There are some customizers who make 1/6 scale suites and there are
some Ken outfits that may work, so making a "shopping" Cornelius may
be possible. It will be harder to get Zira's particular "shopping"
outfit. Maybe an old 70's Barbie outfit in a similar style is out
there somewhere.
I've seen some decent looking, small plastic chimp figures. The kind
you find with all the other zoo animal toys. One of those may be the
right scale to be a baby Milo.

Cotswold Collectibles specializes in 1/6 scale figures and
accessories:
http://www.gijoeelite.com/f_home.asp
Under their "Elite Brigade" heading (on the left side of their
homepage) you can find a lot of clothing and accessories.
Some of their black Nazi, SS uniforms look like a good start for a
Conquest police force figure.

This site, coincidently called "Monkey Depot", also has a ton of
loose 1/6 scale weapons and uniforms:
http://monkeydepot.com/merchant/indexmain.htm
It's mainly military stuff but sometimes Astronaut and other misc.
pieces can be found there.

Check out this site for a good horse and saddle for your Gorilla
soldiers:
http://store.yahoo.com/opsgear/accessories1.html"
Scroll down to the bottom. There's other cool stuff on the menu on
the upper left.

-Ray

I've been re-watching the movies, TV episodes and cartoons, and I also
recently re-read the comics, and it occurs to me that a LOT of people have
been lost in the ape-controlled future. It makes me wonder how the heck we
ever made it to the moon without being thrown into the future...

Ulysses Mérou and crew (Monkey Planet -- George Taylor in Planet)
Brent and Skipper (Beneath)
Cornelius, Zira, Milo (Escape)
Alan Virdon, Peter Burke, Jones (TV)
The as-tro-nauts who preceded Burke and Virdon (TV)
Astronaut, name unknown (Galen's introductions from the TV films)
Bill Hudson, Jeff Allen, Judy Franklin (Return)
Future-Brent (Return)
Derek Zane (Marvel)
Verina (Hardocover Annual #3)
The Blue Star (Argentinian comics)
Thomas Edison (Argentian comics -- yes, THE Thomas Edison)
Jo Taylor and the Vindicator crew (Ape City -- granted, they meant to
time-travel)
Dr. Foucault (Urchak's Folly)
The Oberon crew (Burton's POTA)
Markie-Mark (Burton's POTA)
Markie-Mark's Chimp (Burton's POTA)

That's 17 people or groups who have time-traveled in the POTA mythos. And
I might be missing some, come to think of it. I just hope any future
publishers don't rely too heavily on this plot device -- it's definitely
been over-used.

Ray, these are great links, which I will follow through for
accessories! (Especially the horse!)
http://store.yahoo.com/opsgear/16schod.html" Although my kids might
have something the right size that I can latch on to.

But, you guys are kidding, right? I would definitely like to buy an
artistically accurate costumed Milo (and Cornelius and Zira) ape-o-
naut! I would prefer that to a Taylor/Nova collection that looks
little like either Taylor or Nova!! And I can easily make a blanket
costume for the Taylor I did buy!

Okay, I concede that the "family collection" that I would also like
could be more easily customized. And finding fabric for Zira's
dress would probably not be that difficult. (Although I have to say
that I really DID like the shopping sequence, and the costumes were
worn beyond the actual shopping scenes -- which makes them somewhat
significant.)

Still, I like the idea of an Ape-o-naut set. No, I'm not made of
money! (You do realize that these customizing pieces also cost
money?) Yes, I would likely splurge for the set! (Especially if
they nix the "extras" and sell the set with the ship!)

--Helen

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Ray" <ursus3978@a...> wrote:

>
> You can also just have a figure with a dark helmet on and
say "That's
> Sal Mineo, I mean Milo in there".
> There has been such an explosion of 1/6 scale accessories over the
> last couple of years that customizing other characters should be
> pretty easy now. It also helps that Sideshow has produced these
> shorter bodies. It will be easier to dress them in clothes from
other
> manufacturers.
> Jumpsuits are fairly commen so "Conquest" customs will be doable.
> Modern weapons are also prevelent so arming "Conquest"
and "Battle"
> apes will be easy.
> There are some customizers who make 1/6 scale suites and there are
> some Ken outfits that may work, so making a "shopping" Cornelius
may
> be possible. It will be harder to get Zira's particular "shopping"
> outfit. Maybe an old 70's Barbie outfit in a similar style is out
> there somewhere.
> I've seen some decent looking, small plastic chimp figures. The
kind
> you find with all the other zoo animal toys. One of those may be
the
> right scale to be a baby Milo.
>
> Cotswold Collectibles specializes in 1/6 scale figures and
> accessories:
> http://www.gijoeelite.com/f_home.asp
> Under their "Elite Brigade" heading (on the left side of their
> homepage) you can find a lot of clothing and accessories.
> Some of their black Nazi, SS uniforms look like a good start for a
> Conquest police force figure.
>
> This site, coincidently called "Monkey Depot", also has a ton of
> loose 1/6 scale weapons and uniforms:
> http://monkeydepot.com/merchant/indexmain.htm
> It's mainly military stuff but sometimes Astronaut and other misc.
> pieces can be found there.
>
> Check out this site for a good horse and saddle for your Gorilla
> soldiers:
> http://store.yahoo.com/opsgear/accessories1.html"
> Scroll down to the bottom. There's other cool stuff on the menu on
> the upper left.
>
> -Ray

Who says the carpet bag wasn't APES designed? (...Like the homes,
guns, clothing, etc. WERE???)

I LIKE the carpet bag!!! It's too bad that the one little prop that
represents feminine Ape life inspires such a negative reaction. I
guess we should be thankful that the writers didn't delve into that
a bit more!

--Helen

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, mlccougar@a... wrote:
> As far as that carpet bag, they went the cheap a*s route with
that... Had
> they had the decency to give more of a budget to begin with, then
Zira would have
> had a proper APES designed bag, not that ugly a*s thing... That
bag, and Zira
> and Cornelius in "human" clothes make me want to puke... The bag
was just a
> BAD prop, given to her cause of lack of budget... And the Apes
dressed in those
> clothes was just a mistake... I prefer the way they handle it in
the novel of
> ESCAPE, where Zira feels all the clothes are ugly...

My complaint is how come the humans always crash their ships while
the Apes make good landings. Compare Taylor's, Brent's, Burke &
Virdon's and Leo's landings. All crashes. While C&Z and Leo's chimp
both either good landings or splashdowns.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Rich Handley <handleyr@o...> wrote:
>
> I've been re-watching the movies, TV episodes and cartoons, and I
also
> recently re-read the comics, and it occurs to me that a LOT of
people have
> been lost in the ape-controlled future. It makes me wonder how
the heck we
> ever made it to the moon without being thrown into the future...
>
> Ulysses Mérou and crew (Monkey Planet -- George Taylor in Planet)
> Brent and Skipper (Beneath)
> Cornelius, Zira, Milo (Escape)
> Alan Virdon, Peter Burke, Jones (TV)
> The as-tro-nauts who preceded Burke and Virdon (TV)
> Astronaut, name unknown (Galen's introductions from the TV films)
> Bill Hudson, Jeff Allen, Judy Franklin (Return)
> Future-Brent (Return)
> Derek Zane (Marvel)
> Verina (Hardocover Annual #3)
> The Blue Star (Argentinian comics)
> Thomas Edison (Argentian comics -- yes, THE Thomas Edison)
> Jo Taylor and the Vindicator crew (Ape City -- granted, they meant
to
> time-travel)
> Dr. Foucault (Urchak's Folly)
> The Oberon crew (Burton's POTA)
> Markie-Mark (Burton's POTA)
> Markie-Mark's Chimp (Burton's POTA)
>
> That's 17 people or groups who have time-traveled in the POTA
mythos. And
> I might be missing some, come to think of it. I just hope any
future
> publishers don't rely too heavily on this plot device -- it's
definitely
> been over-used.

I've always assumed that the novelizations were written AFTER the
movies. Maybe someone here can tell me how much liberty the authors
took with the stories and, when additional details were needed,
where they got their information. I know this is totally based on
individual opinion, but in your personal opinion(s) are these
considered canon in the same way the movies are?

--Helen

Amazing!

Doesn't look like a plot device. Looks like a theme!

--Helen

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Rich Handley <handleyr@o...> wrote:
>
> That's 17 people or groups who have time-traveled in the POTA
mythos. And
> I might be missing some, come to think of it. I just hope any
future
> publishers don't rely too heavily on this plot device -- it's
definitely
> been over-used.

I don't know much about the genesis of the novelization of Beneath.
From the copyright it seems to have been published around the same
time the movie was released. On the whole it is pretty close to the
film.
The next novelization to be published was for Battle. We know that
David Gerrold was on the set of the film and even acted as an Ape
extra. He wrote a column about his experience in an old issue of
Starlog. How closely he consulted with Paul Dehn on his novelization
is unknown but it also closely follows the film.
Escape & Conquest were done after Battle and thus long after the
films were completed. It's obvious that the authors worked from
scripts alone without viewing the films. They made some assuptions
and took some liberties. For example, in the novelization of Escape
C&Z's (or maybe Taylor's) spacecraft is brought aboard an aircraft
carrier instead of towed on to a beach.
My personal opinion is because of differences like that the
novelizations cannot be considered canon. I take the "Star Trek"
view of what is canon:
"As a rule of thumb, the events that take place within the live
action episodes and movies are canon, or official Star Trek facts.
Story lines, characters, events, stardates, etc. that take place
within the fictional novels, the Animated Adventures, and the
various comic lines are not canon."
http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/help/faqs/faq/676.html"

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "ape_mom" <sand_hill_school@y...> wrote:
>
>
> I've always assumed that the novelizations were written AFTER the
> movies. Maybe someone here can tell me how much liberty the
authors
> took with the stories and, when additional details were needed,
> where they got their information. I know this is totally based on
> individual opinion, but in your personal opinion(s) are these
> considered canon in the same way the movies are?
>
> --Helen

.html Last night when I got home from work, Zira and Cornelius were on my steps(the UPS driver climbed the snow banks to deliver them). I like them both but Cornelius does look very pissed off. Elaine<.html

.html Good points, LT. Yes, in the movie Cornelius is not happy about the arrival of Taylor. And one of the things I like about the character is he does say "I am up for a raise etc." It shows that not all apes are concerned with events outside of their daily lives. Cornelius is very natural in his concerns. He helps Taylor out of his love for Zira. But this Sideshow doll looks incredibly angry, like he needs an enema. Elaine<.html

.html.htmlIn a message dated 12/31/2004 9:27:47 AM Central Standard Time, sand_hill_school@... writes:

Who says the carpet bag wasn't APES designed?  (...Like the homes,
guns, clothing, etc. WERE???)

I LIKE the carpet bag!!!  It's too bad that the one little prop that
represents feminine Ape life inspires such a negative reaction.  I
guess we should be thankful that the writers didn't delve into that
a bit more!  

Who says it "wasn't" Apes designed? Just look at... It's obvious it was something whipped in there by the props dept. with no thought as to what it looked like... The script called for a "suitcase" and that's what they scrounged up... Had they been smart, they would have made a bag that looks like it WAS made by the apes... It's so obvious that the bag wasn't (even though we're supposed to believe it was...) If you're seriously going to try and say that bag looks like it fits in with everything else apes created, then you're definitely seeing it as something else... I'm not saying that Zira wouldn't have had a carpet bag, but I am saying that in contrast to everything else you mentioned that is apes made, it's obvious that the bag really isn't. They should have made her a bag (maybe similar in looks to the Gorilla's backpacks) or some type of big brown leather case... Something that looks ape made, not like some hippie made it...

And as far as your last comment:Did I say that it was "wrong" for them to show something a female ape might have? No... But I did say that the bag should have looked "ape made"... It wasn't wrong for Dehn to have written a bag into the script, it was wrong for the "money people" to have been trimming the budget for each sequel and giving them inferior props...

<.html <.html

> But this Sideshow doll looks incredibly
> angry, like he needs an enema. Elaine

8-) I agree. So far, I'm glad I decided not to spend the $40/each on
these figures. The Medicoms still look the best to me....

Hunter

Helen, it just so happens that Scrolls #10 will have an interview
with Jerry Pournelle, who did 'Escape', touching on that very
point.Without spoiling things, he does say that backgound had to be
added for it to work as a novel.I'm probably in a minority, but I
tend to regard the novels as canon over and above any other
versions.But that's just me. John, Scrolls.

.html.htmlIn a message dated 12/31/2004 10:58:33 AM Central Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

I don't know much about the genesis of the novelization of Beneath.
From the copyright it seems to have been published around the same
time the movie was released. On the whole it is pretty close to the
film.
The next novelization to be published was for Battle. We know that
David Gerrold was on the set of the film and even acted as an Ape
extra. He wrote a column about his experience in an old issue of
Starlog. How closely he consulted with Paul Dehn on his novelization
is unknown but it also closely follows the film.

The BENEATH novel was released at the time of the film... (It's even mentioned in the BENEATH movie pressbook as a "promotional tie-in.") It can be considered canon, because as you say, it does follow the film pretty closely... It also adds scenes that were in the scripts, but cut from the film (and having been originally intended to be included, I'd call them canon. They don't alter the story in any way, and their inclusion(s) enhance the story...)

The BATTLE novel was also released at the time of the film (also mentioned in the BATTLE pressbook)... But, it doesn't follow the film exactly... Caesar is more militant in the novel for one thing... He doesn't say tell the apes to take the Mutants prisoner, he tells them "Kill them. Defend your city." That alone is a big change. The novel of BATTLE is better than the film, and it's too bad the film didn't end up as good as it's book adaption. Gerrold was interviewed for Scrolls wasn't he? It may have some background as to how close he followed Dehn's work...

Escape &Conquest were done after Battle and thus long after the
films were completed. It's obvious that the authors worked from
scripts alone without viewing the films. They made some assuptions
and took some liberties. For example, in the novelization of Escape
C&Z's (or maybe Taylor's) spacecraft is brought aboard an aircraft
carrier instead of towed on to a beach.

Again, ESCAPE is better in the book form... It's not so "light" in book form... I like the way that the apes aren't so quick to "like" all things "human"... They think the clothes are ugly, and when the reporter asks Cornelius how he finds women, Cornelius is right when he tells him (paraphrased) "Your standards of beauty and our's aren't the same, so it really makes no sense to ask that." Changes like that are what the movie should have been anyway... CONQUEST, again, like BENEATH pretty much follows the film, except it doesn't have the "bullsh*t ending tacked on... It also includes more of Caesar communicating with the other apes, teaching them, etc. Again, I'm sure these were originally in the script, and they flesh out the story, so to me, they are canon.<.html <.html

Very cool, John. I am already looking forward to this issue, but
this makes it even better!

I do look to the novels for clues as to how things happened and for
additional details to fill in small missing pieces.

--Helen

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "shanter2002" <mail@m...> wrote:
>
>
> Helen, it just so happens that Scrolls #10 will have an interview
> with Jerry Pournelle, who did 'Escape', touching on that very
> point.Without spoiling things, he does say that backgound had to
be
> added for it to work as a novel.I'm probably in a minority, but I
> tend to regard the novels as canon over and above any other
> versions.But that's just me. John, Scrolls.

Ummm... James? Is it possible to get a picture of the carpet bag?

--Helen

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, mlccougar@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 12/31/2004 9:27:47 AM Central Standard Time,
> sand_hill_school@y... writes:
>
> > Who says the carpet bag wasn't APES designed? (...Like the
homes,
> > guns, clothing, etc. WERE???)
> >
> > I LIKE the carpet bag!!! It's too bad that the one little prop
that
> > represents feminine Ape life inspires such a negative reaction.
I
> > guess we should be thankful that the writers didn't delve into
that
> > a bit more!
>
> Who says it "wasn't" Apes designed? Just look at... It's obvious
it was
> something whipped in there by the props dept. with no thought as
to what it looked
> like... The script called for a "suitcase" and that's what they
scrounged
> up... Had they been smart, they would have made a bag that looks
like it WAS made
> by the apes... It's so obvious that the bag wasn't (even though
we're supposed
> to believe it was...) If you're seriously going to try and say
that bag looks
> like it fits in with everything else apes created, then you're
definitely
> seeing it as something else... I'm not saying that Zira wouldn't
have had a
> carpet bag, but I am saying that in contrast to everything else
you mentioned that
> is apes made, it's obvious that the bag really isn't. They should
have made
> her a bag (maybe similar in looks to the Gorilla's backpacks) or
some type of
> big brown leather case... Something that looks ape made, not like
some hippie
> made it...
>
> And as far as your last comment:Did I say that it was "wrong" for
them to
> show something a female ape might have? No... But I did say that
the bag should
> have looked "ape made"... It wasn't wrong for Dehn to have written
a bag into
> the script, it was wrong for the "money people" to have been
trimming the
> budget for each sequel and giving them inferior props...

.html.htmlIn a message dated 12/31/2004 12:40:41 PM Central Standard Time, mail@... writes:

Helen, it just so happens that Scrolls #10 will have an interview with Jerry Pournelle, who did 'Escape', touching on that very point.Without spoiling things, he does say that backgound had to be added for it to work as a novel.

When will issue # 10 be available? Also, since most issues of Scrolls have a theme to them, will the theme of # 10 be ESCAPE or the novels or what?

Also, when you said that:

I'm probably in a minority, but I tend to regard the novels as canon over and above any other versions.

What did you mean by that? Do you mean you consider the novels of the films as canon, but not the comic adaptions?

<.html <.html

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, mlccougar@a... wrote:

>
> The BATTLE novel was also released at the time of the film (also

mentioned in

> the BATTLE pressbook)... But, it doesn't follow the film

exactly... Caesar is

> more militant in the novel for one thing... He doesn't say tell

the apes to

> take the Mutants prisoner, he tells them "Kill them. Defend your

city." That

> alone is a big change. The novel of BATTLE is better than the

film, and it's too

> bad the film didn't end up as good as it's book adaption. Gerrold

was

> interviewed for Scrolls wasn't he? It may have some background as

to how close he

> followed Dehn's work...
>

But then which version is canon? Caesar and the Apes taking the
Mutants prisoners or killing them?

>
> Again, ESCAPE is better in the book form... It's not so "light" in

book

> form... I like the way that the apes aren't so quick to "like" all

things

> "human"... They think the clothes are ugly, and when the reporter

asks Cornelius how he

> finds women, Cornelius is right when he tells him

(paraphrased) "Your

> standards of beauty and our's aren't the same, so it really makes

no sense to ask

> that." Changes like that are what the movie should have been

anyway...

OK Fair enough. Liking the novelization better than the movie is
your prerogative.

> CONQUEST, again, like BENEATH pretty much follows the film, except

it doesn't have the

> "bullsh*t ending tacked on... It also includes more of Caesar

communicating

> with the other apes, teaching them, etc. Again, I'm sure these

were originally in

> the script, and they flesh out the story, so to me, they are canon.

Actually they weren't in the script. Here's the link to the Conquest
script on Hunter's site:
http://www.goatley.com/pota/scripts/pota_conquest_finalshooting.pdf

.html

Well, my Zira shipped.

I'll keep you posted on it.

Thanks to the lower price I

basically got shipping for a

buck-O-five, for all you Team

America fans.  What's the

shipping from Sideshow

running?  I chose USPS over

the UPS Ground.  It wasn't

much more, and I don't have

to worry about going to the office

or being home. 

<.html

.html

In a message dated 12/31/2004 9:27:41 A.M. Central Standard Time, sand_hill_school@... writes:

I LIKE the carpet bag!!!  It's too bad that the one little prop that
represents feminine Ape life inspires such a negative reaction.  I
guess we should be thankful that the writers didn't delve into that
a bit more!

A Carpet bag is a carpet bag.

I never really though about it

looking like our carpet bags.

I bought my wife a hat with that

same design on it.  I never even

thought about the Ape connection.

 

<.html

.html

In a message dated 12/31/2004 10:35:58 A.M. Central Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

All crashes. While C&Z and Leo's chimp
both either good landings or splashdowns.

Yeah, that is funny!

Remember they said

they weren't programmed

to land in the water?  Man,

after looking at Brent's

landing they should switch

to splash downs!

<.html

.html.htmlIn a message dated 12/31/2004 1:33:54 PM Central Standard Time, sand_hill_school@... writes:

Ummm... James?  Is it possible to get a picture of the carpet bag?

Don't you have the film on VHS or DVD? Just go to the scene where the Marine tells the General that the apes changed into their clothing that they brought with them "in that suitcase"... You get a pretty good look at that thing right there... Or towards the end when Zira stashes it...

<.html <.html

.html.htmlIn a message dated 12/31/2004 1:47:11 PM Central Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

Actually they weren't in the script. Here's the link to the Conquest
script on Hunter's site:

Weren't they? I am sure somewhere along the line that I heard the scenes with Caesar talking with Aldo, etc. were scripted... Maybe they were in an earlier draft than what was in the final shooting script? (After all, an early draft had Caesar pretending to be a "monkey boy" rather than the ape he is... And they had him leading the revolt on horse-back... So, I'd guess it wasn't impossible for the scenes that I am talking about having existed at one time, but totally dropped from later scripting...)

<.html <.html

.html.htmlIn a message dated 12/31/2004 1:47:11 PM Central Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

But then which version is canon? Caesar and the Apes taking the
Mutants prisoners or killing them?

That's is a fair question: I'd say that since what "exists" is the film, it might be the film... But as to which I prefer, and what I think "should have been" the canon piece, I'd say the novel (or even the MARVEL adaption...)

<.html <.html

.html

Couldn't the carpet bag have been Stewart's? Maybe it was a possession she brought on the flight and the chimps found it on the sunken spaceship. Zira fell in love with it and took it on the ride.

  Bruce

<.html

"Monkey Boy"! hehe...hehe...hehe

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, mlccougar@a... wrote:
>
> Weren't they? I am sure somewhere along the line that I heard the
scenes with
> Caesar talking with Aldo, etc. were scripted... Maybe they were in
an earlier
> draft than what was in the final shooting script? (After all, an
early draft
> had Caesar pretending to be a "monkey boy" rather than the ape he
is... And
> they had him leading the revolt on horse-back... So, I'd guess it
wasn't
> impossible for the scenes that I am talking about having existed
at one time, but
> totally dropped from later scripting...)

.html.htmlIn a message dated 12/31/2004 2:17:57 PM Central Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

"Monkey Boy"! hehe...hehe...hehe

I hated that idea too... I am glad they dropped that stupid idea....

<.html<.html

.html

In a message dated 12/31/2004 2:08:48 P.M. Central Standard Time, mlccougar@... writes:

Caesar pretending to be a "monkey boy" rather than the ape he is

Is that a Buckaroo Banzai reference?

<.html

.html

In a message dated 12/31/2004 2:15:58 P.M. Central Standard Time, stenosaurus@... writes:

Couldn't the carpet bag have been Stewart's? Maybe it was a possession she brought on the flight and the chimps found it on the sunken spaceship.

 

I doubt they'd let her take one.

On the other hand it is a one

way trip.  And Taylor was

smoking cigars, so . . .

 

<.html

.html.htmlIn a message dated 12/31/2004 2:42:57 PM Central Standard Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

Caesar pretending to be a "monkey boy" rather than the ape he is

Is that a Buckaroo Banzai reference?


No, it isn't... It's referring to one script where Caesar pretended that he was a deformed human who looks "simian"...<.html <.html

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In a message dated 12/31/2004 3:43:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

I doubt they'd let her take one.

On the other hand it is a one

way trip.  And Taylor was

smoking cigars, so . . .

Exactly! If Taylor could bring cigars maybe each astronaut got to bring a memento. Stewart's was the carpet bag,

Bruce

<.html

I'll do that, but I thought James might have one in his stash. It
takes a while for me to get TV time.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, mlccougar@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 12/31/2004 1:33:54 PM Central Standard Time,
> sand_hill_school@y... writes:
>
> > Ummm... James? Is it possible to get a picture of the carpet
bag?
>
> Don't you have the film on VHS or DVD? Just go to the scene where
the Marine
> tells the General that the apes changed into their clothing that
they brought
> with them "in that suitcase"... You get a pretty good look at that
thing right
> there... Or towards the end when Zira stashes it...

This is the best I have right now. I'll try to do a better one
tomorrow.

http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/Carpetbag.jpg

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "ape_mom" <sand_hill_school@y...> wrote:
>
>
> I'll do that, but I thought James might have one in his stash. It
> takes a while for me to get TV time.
>
>
>

When is the next issue of SS coming out John? And isn't coming with
a special gift? ;-)

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "shanter2002" <mail@m...> wrote:
>
>
> Helen, it just so happens that Scrolls #10 will have an interview
> with Jerry Pournelle, who did 'Escape', touching on that very
> point.Without spoiling things, he does say that backgound had to
be
> added for it to work as a novel.I'm probably in a minority, but I
> tend to regard the novels as canon over and above any other
> versions.But that's just me. John, Scrolls.

Thank you for the picture, James. I think that's good.

I still don't see anything wrong with the bag! Maybe it's Gucci for
all I know, but it doesn't look like the typical squatty, large
floured, Mary Poppins type bag.

--Helen

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "James" <JamesA1102@a...> wrote:
>
>
> This is the best I have right now. I'll try to do a better one
> tomorrow.
>
> http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/Carpetbag.jpg
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "ape_mom" <sand_hill_school@y...>
wrote:
> >
> >
> > I'll do that, but I thought James might have one in his stash.
It
> > takes a while for me to get TV time.
> >
> >
> >

.html.htmlIn a message dated 12/31/2004 5:00:46 PM Central Standard Time, sand_hill_school@... writes:

I still don't see anything wrong with the bag!  Maybe it's Gucci for
all I know, but it doesn't look like the typical squatty, large
floured, Mary Poppins type bag.

I see a lot wrong with it's appearance if it's supposed to be Ape made... And it has a flowery pattern on it, and tassles...

<.html <.html

Now there IS A THOUGHT!!!!! Good thinking Bruce!!

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, stenosaurus@a... wrote:
> Couldn't the carpet bag have been Stewart's? Maybe it was a
possession she
> brought on the flight and the chimps found it on the sunken
spaceship. Zira
> fell in love with it and took it on the ride.
> Bruce

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In a message dated 1/1/2005 1:36:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, JLKINSER1970@... writes:

Now there IS A THOUGHT!!!!! Good thinking Bruce!!

Thanks! Just because I don't write a lot doesn't mean I'm not paying attention!

Bruce

<.html

First, happy new year everyone. I hope noone went too ape last
night;-)

With all this talk of carpetbags and what Taylor & crew were allowed
to bring with them, I thought of the backpacks Taylor & crew carried
in the Forbidden Zone.

Now these appear to be made of some shiny silver metal. Yet they are
walking through a desert wearing these things on their backs. With
the sun beating down on them all day wouldn't these metal backpacks
start to raditate an awful amount of heat? How could Taylor, Landon
and Dodge stand to have these things on their backs for days?

.html.htmlIn a message dated 1/1/05 8:49:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

With all this talk of carpetbags and what Taylor & crew were allowed
to bring with them, I thought of the backpacks Taylor & crew carried
in the Forbidden Zone.

Now these appear to be made of some shiny silver metal. Yet they are
walking through a desert wearing these things on their backs. With
the sun beating down on them all day wouldn't these metal backpacks
start to raditate an awful amount of heat? How could Taylor, Landon
and Dodge stand to have these things on their backs for days?

I'd like to buy one of those replicas Apemania is selling, take a trip to Lake Powell and try it out!

-- Rory<.html <.html

I understand. And for the record, I think that your thought on the
subject was really good. I have been reading the other messages and
I really thought to myself yes it would be possible for Zira to have
had that bag on the Planet of the Apes. Look at Ursus helment and
his uniform; it wasn't cheaply made nor any of the others. And just
because they live in primitive houses doesn't mean they can not make
quaility clothing. Take a look at Planet of the Apes when Taylor is
running through the streets and jumps through the little outside
clothing store; they have good quaility clothes in there. And what
about the Museum? These are INTELLENGENT APES and I always thought
it was possible for Zira to have brought the bag from the Planet.
But your answer to it possibly being Stewarts is real well thought
and as highly as possible as any other. Since she was to be the "new
EVE" as Taylor called her, they HAD to have had more than just their
space suits. They were planning on starting a new life I always
thought.



In pota@yahoogroups.com, stenosaurus@a... wrote:

>
> In a message dated 1/1/2005 1:36:54 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> JLKINSER1970@h... writes:
>
> Now there IS A THOUGHT!!!!! Good thinking Bruce!!
>
>
>
>
> Thanks! Just because I don't write a lot doesn't mean I'm not

paying

> attention!
> Bruce

It's great thinking! I don't have a problem with this at all; in
fact, I like the possibilities! What was in the bag? Interesting
ideas come to mind! Maybe Stewart's diary!

This doesn't mean that I like the carpet bag any less, though. I'd
still like it in the set. Zira brought her change of clothes in it
and (in Escape) that is the first clue to us mere humans (I think)
that she was "intelligent."

--Helen

PS Best wishes for a happy New Year to all of you.





--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "luke_the_drifter52"
<JLKINSER1970@h...> wrote:

>
>
> I understand. And for the record, I think that your thought on the
> subject was really good. I have been reading the other messages

and

> I really thought to myself yes it would be possible for Zira to

have

> had that bag on the Planet of the Apes. Look at Ursus helment and
> his uniform; it wasn't cheaply made nor any of the others. And

just

> because they live in primitive houses doesn't mean they can not

make

> quaility clothing. Take a look at Planet of the Apes when Taylor

is

> running through the streets and jumps through the little outside
> clothing store; they have good quaility clothes in there. And what
> about the Museum? These are INTELLENGENT APES and I always thought
> it was possible for Zira to have brought the bag from the Planet.
> But your answer to it possibly being Stewarts is real well thought
> and as highly as possible as any other. Since she was to be

the "new

> EVE" as Taylor called her, they HAD to have had more than just

their

> space suits. They were planning on starting a new life I always
> thought.
>
>
>
> In pota@yahoogroups.com, stenosaurus@a... wrote:
> >
> > In a message dated 1/1/2005 1:36:54 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> > JLKINSER1970@h... writes:
> >
> > Now there IS A THOUGHT!!!!! Good thinking Bruce!!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks! Just because I don't write a lot doesn't mean I'm not
> paying
> > attention!
> > Bruce

.html.htmlIn a message dated 1/1/2005 1:10:45 PM Central Standard Time, JLKINSER1970@... writes:

I really thought to myself yes it would be possible for Zira to have
had that bag on the Planet of the Apes. Look at Ursus helment and
his uniform; it wasn't cheaply made nor any of the others. And just
because they live in primitive houses doesn't mean they can not make
quaility clothing

I know the clothing items they make are of quality, I never said that... My big complaint is the LOOK of the carpet bag... It's very obvious there was no attempt on the part of the props dept. or whoever to make the bag look APES like... As I said, I had no problem with Zira owning/using a large bag like that, it's just so obvious that no thought was given to it's design...

<.html<.html

What WOULD it look like -- if it were Apes designed?

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, mlccougar@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 1/1/2005 1:10:45 PM Central Standard Time,
> JLKINSER1970@h... writes:
>
> > I really thought to myself yes it would be possible for Zira to
have
> > had that bag on the Planet of the Apes. Look at Ursus helment
and
> > his uniform; it wasn't cheaply made nor any of the others. And
just
> > because they live in primitive houses doesn't mean they can not
make
> > quaility clothing
>
> I know the clothing items they make are of quality, I never said
that... My
> big complaint is the LOOK of the carpet bag... It's very obvious
there was no
> attempt on the part of the props dept. or whoever to make the bag
look APES
> like... As I said, I had no problem with Zira owning/using a large
bag like that,
> it's just so obvious that no thought was given to it's design...

.html.htmlIn a message dated 1/1/2005 3:58:17 PM Central Standard Time, sand_hill_school@... writes:

What WOULD it look like -- if it were Apes designed?

It'd probably be a big plain looking leather bag... Or maybe have the look of the Gorillas backpack designed, but of course it'd be bigger... I don't know for sure, but it'd be more in line with everything else they made, and not look like it was owned by a hippie chick...

<.html <.html

.html

In a message dated 1/1/2005 4:38:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, sand_hill_school@... writes:

It's great thinking!  I don't have a problem with this at all; in
fact, I like the possibilities!  What was in the bag?  Interesting
ideas come to mind!  Maybe Stewart's diary!

I would have like to have seen a longer beginning to Escape that got into the chimps discovering Taylor's ship, restoring it, the liftoff, etc. but I guess due to time & budget it was impossible. Ideas like this could have been explored.

Bruce

<.html

Ok. That's cool. I get you. A luggage tag with glyphs?


But, back when the movie was filmed, it may have been ok for Zira to
look like a hippie chick. I would guess that is about what she
was... a rebellious, strong-willed, opinionated, free-spirited,
truth-seeking, animal-loving, ape activist.


--Helen

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, mlccougar@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 1/1/2005 3:58:17 PM Central Standard Time,
> sand_hill_school@y... writes:
>
> > What WOULD it look like -- if it were Apes designed?
>
> It'd probably be a big plain looking leather bag... Or maybe have
the look of
> the Gorillas backpack designed, but of course it'd be bigger... I
don't know
> for sure, but it'd be more in line with everything else they made,
and not
> look like it was owned by a hippie chick...

.html.htmlIn a message dated 1/1/2005 5:09:26 PM Central Standard Time, stenosaurus@... writes:

I would have like to have seen a longer beginning to Escape that got into the chimps discovering Taylor's ship, restoring it, the liftoff, etc. but I guess due to time & budget it was impossible. Ideas like this could have been explored.

That would have been half the movie right there then... I mean it'd have to take a few steps back and show the whole discovery, repair, learing to control it, etc, and then the lift off, all the while making sure that those things would be happening before any of the stuff in BENEATH occured, because you wouldn't want to have things overlapping... Let's say that the army would have crossed the area where the ship had crashed... You couldn't have shown them on the march with Milo in the background examining Taylor's Icarus at the same time...

The ideas you have here are good, and that's where new APES comics owuld come in... You can do backstories like that in them...<.html <.html

.html.htmlIn a message dated 1/1/05 6:09:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, stenosaurus@... writes:

I would have like to have seen a longer beginning to Escape that got into the chimps discovering Taylor's ship, restoring it, the liftoff, etc. but I guess due to time & budget it was impossible. Ideas like this could have been explored.
Bruce

I'd like to see all the sequels disappear and have an eight hour PLANET instead.

-- Rory<.html <.html

Definitely a topic worth exploring! A lot went on before Escape,
and it would be interesting to know just what!

--Helen

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, stenosaurus@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 1/1/2005 4:38:17 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> sand_hill_school@y... writes:
>
> It's great thinking! I don't have a problem with this at all; in
> fact, I like the possibilities! What was in the bag?
Interesting
> ideas come to mind! Maybe Stewart's diary!
>
>
>
> I would have like to have seen a longer beginning to Escape that
got into
> the chimps discovering Taylor's ship, restoring it, the liftoff,
etc. but I
> guess due to time & budget it was impossible. Ideas like this
could have been
> explored.
> Bruce

.html

In a message dated 1/1/2005 2:10:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, JLKINSER1970@... writes:

But your answer to it possibly being Stewarts is real well thought
and as highly as possible as any other. Since she was to be the "new
EVE" as Taylor called her, they HAD to have had more than just their
space suits. They were planning on starting a new life I always
thought.

That's my train of thought too.

Bruce 

 

<.html

Just wondering...

What was Stewart's first name? I keep thinking Martha, and I know
that's not right!

--Helen

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, stenosaurus@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 1/1/2005 4:38:17 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> sand_hill_school@y... writes:
>
> It's great thinking! I don't have a problem with this at all; in
> fact, I like the possibilities! What was in the bag?
Interesting
> ideas come to mind! Maybe Stewart's diary!
>
>
>
> I would have like to have seen a longer beginning to Escape that
got into
> the chimps discovering Taylor's ship, restoring it, the liftoff,
etc. but I
> guess due to time & budget it was impossible. Ideas like this
could have been
> explored.
> Bruce

Great idea! Write it!

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 1/1/05 6:09:20 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> stenosaurus@a... writes:
>
>
> > I would have like to have seen a longer beginning to Escape that
got into
> > the chimps discovering Taylor's ship, restoring it, the liftoff,
etc. but I
> > guess due to time & budget it was impossible. Ideas like this
could have been
> > explored.
> > Bruce
> >
> >
>
> I'd like to see all the sequels disappear and have an eight hour
PLANET
> instead.
>
> -- Rory

.html

In a message dated 1/1/2005 7:19:30 PM Eastern Standard Time, sand_hill_school@... writes:

Definitely a topic worth exploring!  A lot went on before Escape,
and it would be interesting to know just what!

--Helen

I have a copy of the Escape script and though I haven't read it in a while I believe it starts with the ape-o-nauts already in space. But a little speculation on our part could fill in the details before that.

Bruce

Bruce

<.html

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In a message dated 1/1/2005 7:19:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, mlccougar@... writes:

That would have been half the movie right there then... I mean it'd have to take a few steps back and show the whole discovery, repair, learing to control it, etc, and then the lift off, all the while making sure that those things would be happening before any of the stuff in BENEATH occured, because you wouldn't want to have things overlapping... Let's say that the army would have crossed the area where the ship had crashed... You couldn't have shown them on the march with Milo in the background examining Taylor's Icarus at the same time...

Why not? As long as the gorillas (and Zaius) didn't see or catch the chimps that would've made for some interesting visuals of them working on the ship as the apes march past in the distance...the ship lifting off as Taylor & Brent fight their last battle... maybe Taylor sees, through a whole in the cavern roof, the ship flying towards space as his hand sets off the Doomsday controls...

Bruce

<.html

.html.htmlIn a message dated 1/1/2005 7:31:35 PM Central Standard Time, stenosaurus@... writes:

I have a copy of the Escape script and though I haven't read it in a while I believe it starts with the ape-o-nauts already in space

It does, and these bits were filmed... at least some of it was...<.html <.html

.html.htmlIn a message dated 1/1/2005 7:33:00 PM Central Standard Time, stenosaurus@... writes:

Why not? As long as the gorillas (and Zaius) didn't see or catch the chimps that would've made for some interesting visuals of them working on the ship as the apes march past in the distance...the ship lifting off as Taylor &Brent fight their last battle... maybe Taylor sees, through a whole in the cavern roof, the ship flying towards space as his hand sets off the Doomsday controls...
Bruce

I'm not saying I disagree with you at all... I would like to see a backstory done on this too, and a lot of what you say here is good... All I was getting at is had they FILMED what you would like to see, that would have been trouble I think... I think the way Dehn was, he probably would have rewrote everything that happened at the end of BENEATH and changed everything that was to accomidate whatever he woulda wrote for the ESCAPE story... The man wasn't very consistent in his works...<.html <.html

.html

At this link you can see I have 60 different POTA auctions ending tonight January 1st !

<.html

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In a message dated 1/1/2005 8:49:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, mlccougar@... writes:

I think the way Dehn was, he probably would have rewrote everything that happened at the end of BENEATH and changed everything that was to accomidate whatever he woulda wrote for the ESCAPE story... The man wasn't very consistent in his works...

You're probably right...contrary to what he said in interviews continuity wasn't his strong point.

Bruce

<.html

.html

In a message dated 1/1/2005 8:47:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, mlccougar@... writes:

It does, and these bits were filmed... at least some of it was...

Yes there's a photo in Planet of the Apes Revisited book of the apes in space.

Bruce

<.html

.html.htmlIn a message dated 1/1/2005 8:40:10 PM Central Standard Time, stenosaurus@... writes:

Yes there's a photo in Planet of the Apes Revisited book of the apes in space.

... And another photo exists on the INKWORKS cards...<.html <.html

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In a message dated 1/1/2005 10:02:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, mlccougar@... writes:

... And another photo exists on the INKWORKS cards...

...and another shot on one of the Italian posters for Escape.

Bruce

<.html

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In a message dated 1/1/2005 1:10:44 P.M. Central Standard Time, JLKINSER1970@... writes:

Planet of the Apes. Look at Ursus helment and
his uniform; it wasn't cheaply made nor any of the others. And just
because they live in primitive houses doesn't mean they can not make
quaility clothing.

 

Any one have a closeup of that photo in their house?

My feeling is that's a wedding photo.  And even if not,

I would think that they would be wearing their best for

a photo.  So if their wearing nothing special for that its

probably what they always wear.

 

<.html

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In a message dated 1/1/2005 1:10:44 P.M. Central Standard Time, JLKINSER1970@... writes:

I always thought it was possible for Zira to have brought the bag from the Planet.
But your answer to it possibly being Stewarts is real well thought
and as highly as possible as any other.

 

I don't think so.  Here's why . . .

When the bellhop asked here if

it was her's, she said, "Of course

it's mine."  True she could have

found it on the ship and just thought

it was pretty and claimed it as her

own.  But judging from her nature

she wouldn't have reacted that way

if it wasn't her's.

 

<.html

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In a message dated 1/1/2005 3:58:32 P.M. Central Standard Time, sand_hill_school@... writes:

What WOULD it look like -- if it were Apes designed?

 

Tooled leather with a loose woven fabric,

from the looks of the rest of their gear.

 

<.html