.html<.html

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In a message dated 7/27/2006 10:21:38 A.M. Central Daylight Time, Willowape@... writes:

Some of you might disagree, but I being a Superman fan, was impressed.)

 

I liked a lot about the new Superman.

But it ran out of steam!  It needed an

ending like that airliner scene.  Getting

out of bed is NOT and ending.  Sure

Christopher Reeves couldn't do it,

but it's still not a feat of super strength.

A movie that big needs a Whiz Bang

ending.  At least Pirates had a Cliff

Hanger.  And that was still a cop out.

 

 

 

<.html

.html

In a message dated 7/27/2006 5:07:51 A.M. Central Daylight Time, Zasco1957@... writes:

You can say that again!  Never were truer words spoken.  What a huge disappointment the remake was!

 

Thought you were getting an epic,

not a crap matinee, eh?  Me too.

 

 

<.html

"Hippo birdie two ewe", Kass (sorry there were no apes in that!)...=)

G

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, pota@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
>
> Reminder from the Calendar of pota
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/cal
>
> Kassidy's Birthday
> Thursday July 27, 2006
> All Day
> (This event repeats every year.)
>
> Set up birthday reminders!
> http://us.rd.yahoo.com/cal_us/rem/?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/cal?v=9&evt_type=13
>
> Copyright 2006 Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved.
> http://www.yahoo.com
>
> Privacy Policy:
> http://privacy.yahoo.com/
>
> Terms of Service:
>
>

Hapy Birthday Kass!!!!! I'm very behind on emails but
I saw this and had to write! Will catch up soon!!

Tim

--- hotscheetz <HotScheetz@...> wrote:

> "Hippo birdie two ewe", Kass (sorry there were no
> apes in that!)...=)
>
> G
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, pota@yahoogroups.com
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Reminder from the Calendar of pota
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/cal
> >
> > Kassidy's Birthday
> > Thursday July 27, 2006
> > All Day
> > (This event repeats every year.)
> >
> > Set up birthday reminders!
> > http://us.rd.yahoo.com/cal_us/rem/?
>

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/cal?v=9&evt_type=13

> >
> > Copyright 2006 Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved.
> > http://www.yahoo.com
> >
> > Privacy Policy:
> > http://privacy.yahoo.com/
> >
> > Terms of Service:
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>

It's funny, I remember a quote by David Gerrold about "Star Trek: The
Motion Sickness -- er, Picture", where he said most fans went to see
it with such high anticipation, and claimed they luved it because it
was Star Trek, but upon reflection, they realized the movie was
terrible...
I bought advanced tickets to POTA01, and was first in line, and after
it was over, I thought "Is that it?"...It was, and always has been,
and always will be, a great disappointment to me...

I saw POTA in May of '68, and fell in luv with it, and all the
sequels to one degree or another...I saw POTA and BTPOTA together on
their double-bill...The theater in San Bruno (suburb of San
Francisco) even made a mock-up poster and presented POTA, BTPOTA and
EFTPOTA on a triple-bill...I saw the SF "Go Ape!" festival...I still
get that excitement when I was 13 years old every time I see one of
these movies -- and the TV series'...

POTA01 should never have been made -- IMHO...=)

G

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "James" <JamesA1102@...> wrote:
>
> WOW! It was five years ago today. We all woke up with such hope and
> anticipation. Many of us unfortunately ended the day with
> disappointment.
>
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, pota@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> >
> > Reminder from the Calendar of pota
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/cal
> >
> > Planet of the Apes (remake) premiered on this day in 2001
> > Thursday July 27, 2006
> > All Day
> > (This event repeats every year.)
> >
> > Set up birthday reminders!
> > http://us.rd.yahoo.com/cal_us/rem/?
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/cal?v=9&evt_type=13
> >
> > Copyright 2006 Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved.
> > http://www.yahoo.com
> >
> > Privacy Policy:
> > http://privacy.yahoo.com/
> >
> > Terms of Service:
> >
> >
>

here's all the mego ads:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr2sCLLrHU0&mode=related&search=planet%20of%20the
%20apes

Check out the plaid Toughskins in the last ad.

Yeah those are funny....I'd like to see them without
the flickering sound tho....

"Planet of the Abes" is sort of funny too....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4-uyKT7mQA&mode=related&search=planet%20of%20the%20apes

Tim


--- Mark <rkid67@...> wrote:

> here's all the mego ads:
>
>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr2sCLLrHU0&mode=related&search=planet%20of%20the

> %20apes
>
> Check out the plaid Toughskins in the last ad.
>
>
>
>

.html.htmlIn a message dated 7/27/06 12:28:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, pota@yahoogroups.com writes:

Planet of the Apes (remake) premiered on this day in 2001

A Day That Will Live In Infamy!<.html <.html

Happy Birthday Kass!!!

-----Original Message-----
From: pota@yahoogroups.com
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 12:11 AM
Subject: [POTA] Birthday Reminder

[Image Removed] Reminder from the Calendar of pota

Kassidy's Birthday

Thursday July 27, 2006
All Day
This event repeats every year.

--------
[Image Removed] Yahoo! Greetings
Send a Yahoo! Greeting [Image Removed] Find Gifts
Browse Yahoo! Shopping's Gift Guide








--------
Copyright © 2006 Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Privacy Policy - Terms of Service [Image Removed]


____________

and then there's
"planet of the Apes: The Musical"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBXTHYX0Fxo&mode=related&search=planet%20of%20the%20apes





--- Mark <rkid67@...> wrote:

> here's all the mego ads:
>
>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr2sCLLrHU0&mode=related&search=planet%20of%20the

> %20apes
>
> Check out the plaid Toughskins in the last ad.
>
>
>
>

I was so startled to see my birthday listed as a reminder on the
group - James, you crazy fellow. Thanks for the photo, you know how
to hit me where I live:) I'm really really touched that you guys have
wished me a happy birthday, so thanks so much - zee wonderful Dave,
Dave from NYC, my pal Glen, PofTAfan, Zach - you guys are great. I've
been around here seems like a long time now, and you're all like some
great big mutated twisted kind of family, ha:)
okay so Rory is.
anyway.
I had a good birthday and it's funny, I don't expect a big deal to be
made out of 'em anymore, so they're even more special when I get
surprises like this.
I got "A Boy and His Dog" on dvd. Also Cell by SK. I love my books
and I love my dvds - I buy them before I would clothes:)
Thanks!
Kass

I can't say that I was disappointed. I got exactly what I expected
from a "visionary" director that likened POTA to H.R. Pufnstuf.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Zachary Scott" <Zasco1957@...> wrote:
>
> You can say that again! Never were truer words spoken. What a huge
> disappointment the remake was!
>
>
>
> Zach
>
>
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
>
>
> From: pota@yahoogroups.com
>
> Date: 07/27/06 04:59:49
>
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>
> Subject: [POTA] Re: Planet of the Apes (remake) premiered on this
day in
> 2001 , 7/27/2006, 12:00 am
>
>
>
> WOW! It was five years ago today. We all woke up with such hope and
>
> anticipation. Many of us unfortunately ended the day with
>
> disappointment.
>
>
>
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "James" <JamesA1102@...> wrote:

>
> I've always been a fan of Spacey's, since his days on Wiseguy, but
> seeing after Superman Returns; I'm convinced there is nothing he

can't

> do on the screen.
> Now I wonder what kind of Ape would Spacey be best playing?
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@ wrote:
> >
> >
> > Yeah, Project Greenlight is still around, though what have they

done

> really?
> > You'd probably have better lock with Kevin Spacey's Trigger

Street

> > Productions.
> > At least it's made a couple of movies, instead of a bunch of

direct

> to cable
> > junk.
> >
>

Dear James,
I don't see Spacey as an ape but more of a mentor...
He IS a special breed among us, isn't he?
I never thought of that...
I'm so glad you came across as gently. Others have attacked me
hard.
Maybe that's why I love you all so much...
Thanx...
Thades darling human...

; )

The Mego ads are gems in their own right--the kids are so earnest it
makes me pine for my innocent youth! I wonder did Mego have a general
outline for the Apes series given to them by Fox that then
changed.Ursus was the correct name to start with and the Urko name only
came in late--hence the lack of a helmet for the Urko Mego.The ads seem
to suggest a role for a sidekick for Ursus, which Mego portrayed as
being the helmetless Urko character---not too unlike the Urko/Jason
relationship in episode 2? I wonder was Urko originally going to be
like the boss in Hawaii Five-O, office bound and just sending out
underlings to do the job? Maybe Mark Lenard wanted a more dynamic role,
so Jason copped a bullet from Tolar? Mego clearly had something to work
on--they had the heliograph as part of a playset, and that was totally
new.John, Scrolls.

NICE... real nice...

.html

 

Here's an interesting article in Famous Monsters that says POTA was one of the films that changed Sci-Fi/Horror forever.

 

 

PopMatters | Columns | Marco Lanzagorta | Dread Reckoning | The Gruesome Gazet

<.html

.html

In a message dated 7/28/2006 12:43:00 A.M. Central Daylight Time, drhasslein@... writes:

I can't say that I was disappointed. I got exactly what I expected
from a "visionary" director that likened POTA to H.R. Pufnstuf.

 

For some unknown reason I thought the studio had muzzled

Burton and wrangled him into a proper director.  Instead I

got not what I expected, but what I suspected.  A mildly

amusing little film that I wouldn't see twice, or buy the DVD.

Almost every single Tim Burton film is just exactly like that.

Unfortunately, being the major POTA supporter that I am . . .

I did both.  But I'd've done it just to walk under a POTA marquee.

That feeling again was far better than a mediocre movie matinee.

 

 

<.html

Thanks so much for posting this. Those old Mego ads really bring me
back. A direct link to the 6 minute reel has been added to the Links
section under POTA Mego Commercials.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <rkid67@...> wrote:
>
> here's all the mego ads:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr2sCLLrHU0&mode=related&search=planet%
20of%20the%20apes
>
> Check out the plaid Toughskins in the last ad.
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@... wrote:
> >
> OK, I just checked it out now. It doesn't look like fingerprints, but
> scratches.
>
> First off, there's other stuff, all of it minor but annoying. There's a hair
> or strand of dust fiber that appears during the main credits above the
> "Makeup by... Hairstyling... Orchestration" credits at 4 min., 15 sec. It's always
> been there, probably in the original negs, but I wish they'd digitally remove
> it.
>

OK Found this one:

 

> There's also a lot of flicker in the transfer, the worse one being during the
> trial when Zira says "He's unlike any man you have ever seen." (1 Hour, 6
> min. and 8 sec.) Watch the image flicker.

Saw this one too but a single frame screen grab really doesn't show it.

>
> As for the scratches, the first one (and there may be more but I haven't
> checked every frame) is at 26 min. and 16 sec., just after Taylor runs between the
> two trees. If you still step through that shot you'll see the scratches.

Found it but it is too quick to get a screen grab.

> The second set of them appears at 43 min. and 54 sec. when Zira pinches
> Cornelius' nose. I don't know why those scratches are there, but it would be nice if
> those film elements could be cleaned up.

Found this one too but very subtle:

>
> Anyway, Fox still needs to do more work on PLANET. I remember that an actual
> film restoration of the movie was being done to get an archival print and
> that a work print of it was shown at the Eastman House in Rochester, NY.
> Hopefully when they do a Blu-ray DVD of PLANET a better print will be used.
>
> -- Rory
>

.html

In a message dated 7/28/2006 1:49:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time, thadesdarlinghuman@... writes:

> Now I wonder what kind of Ape would Spacey be best playing?

An Orangutang with an agenda of his own.

 

 

"People shouldn't fear their governments, governments should fear their people."
V For Vendetta.

<.html

Six weeks before the world changed forever. I'll never forget an
interview I saw with a fireman on September 11th. He was asked by a
reporter to describe what it was like at ground zero.

"Forget it. It's like ****ing Planet of the Apes down there."

It was a really strange moment. I could never figure out if he was
referring to the original or the sequel.

Richard

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 7/27/06 12:28:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> pota@yahoogroups.com writes:
>
>
> > Planet of the Apes (remake) premiered on this day in 2001
>
> A Day That Will Live In Infamy!
>

Other things interesting about these....
Ursus is called "nemisis of Dr. Zaius and the
astronauts"...like they were on the same side?
and Zira is the "woman" scientist...
and who is that astronaut in the last couple of
ads....Looks like he stole some clothes from
Virdon....

--- James <JamesA1102@...> wrote:

> Thanks so much for posting this. Those old Mego ads
> really bring me
> back. A direct link to the 6 minute reel has been
> added to the Links
> section under POTA Mego Commercials.
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <rkid67@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > here's all the mego ads:
> >
> >
>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr2sCLLrHU0&mode=related&search=planet%

> 20of%20the%20apes
> >
> > Check out the plaid Toughskins in the last ad.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html<.html

.html

 

Stupid Yahoo put their links right over the spot on the frame you marked.

<.html

.html

In a message dated 7/28/2006 3:51:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, apefan23@... writes:

Looks like he stole some clothes from
Virdon

There were Virdon and Burke figures, I had both of them.

 

 

"People shouldn't fear their governments, governments should fear their people."
V For Vendetta.

<.html

.html

In a message dated 7/28/2006 2:27:21 P.M. Central Daylight Time, rthurbin1@... writes:

"Forget it. It's like ****ing Planet of the Apes down there."

It was a really strange moment. I could never figure out if he was
referring to the original or the sequel.

 

He meant Beneath, after the bomb.

I remember that too.  I though it was obvious.

But I do remember saying to myself, "You mean Beneath!"

 

 

<.html

Access it directly on the Yahoo site:
http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/message/38180
It looks ok there.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@... wrote:
>
>
> Stupid Yahoo put their links right over the spot on the frame you
marked.
>

.html

Reminder from the Calendar of pota David Warner's Birthday� � Saturday July 29, 2006 All Day This event repeats every year.

Copyright ©  2006  Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved.

<.html

The fireman was probably referring to "Conquest". Century City was
pretty torn up in the end,ie; twisted metal, fire, chaos, people
running amok...
I don't like to think about 9-11. It was the day I lost my faith...

,:<

.html

 

Film Critic .com puts the ending of POTA only 3 behind Citizen Cane.

 

 

filmcritic.com: The Top 50 Movie Endings of All Time

<.html

.html <.html

Mego were always a weird and interchangable stable--the Apes playset
was originall for Action Jackson, I think. That mystery daRk haired
astronaut must be one of the guys shot ten years earlier(!).I'm also
now gradually coming to the shocking realistation that the nude
Virdon I bought years ago and take to bed every night is actually
Hutch---the body is 1974 but some pervert has switched the
heads.Maybe if Ron Harper had sung 'Don't Give up on us Baby' back in
1974, Paley might have allowed the series to continue? John, Scrolls.

> > >
> >
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?

v=Fr2sCLLrHU0&mode=related&search=planet%

> > 20of%20the%20apes
> > >
> > > Check out the plaid Toughskins in the last ad.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>

.html.htmlIn a message dated 7/28/06 1:57:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

Found this one too but very subtle:

Well, it's not that subtle when you're watching on an HD TV.

Thanks for the screen grabs.

-- Rory<.html <.html

.html <.html

Yes I do too...but that figure is not either one of
them.....maybe it's burke but it's not Burke's clothes

--- Mithril1960@... wrote:

>
>
> In a message dated 7/28/2006 3:51:28 PM Eastern
> Daylight Time,
> apefan23@... writes:
>
> Looks like he stole some clothes from
> Virdon
>
>
>
> There were Virdon and Burke figures, I had both of
> them.
>
>
> "People shouldn't fear their governments,
> governments should fear their
> people."
> V For Vendetta.
>
>

Kevin most definitely does enjoy the cards he won and he thanks you,
James and Graham Hill for these cards. They are very impressive indeed
and the artwork is masterful. It was a honor to win them. Thanks so
much from a grateful Apes fan.

Kevin--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "James" <JamesA1102@...> wrote:

>
>
> Happy Friday everyone. This week's LESSON FROM THE LAWGIVER is now
> available. Thank you to Elaine and everyone else who contributed.
>
> To view the Lesson click on the banner on the Yahoo Home page or use
> this link: http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/LFTL.htm
> <http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/LFTL.htm>
>
> And now the good news.
>
> Congratulations to Kevin Grant (carrythecoffin) of South Carolina for
> winning our Graham Hill card contest. Kevin won in record time
> identifying all 9 Easter Eggs in less than 12 hours. We hope Kevin
> enjoys the set of Cards he won.
>
> The locations of the Easter Eggs are as follows:
>
> 1. Caesar
> * Section: POTA One Sheets * Page: Conquest *

Hotspot:

> Conquest Insert poster
> * Taylor
> * Section: Art & Info * Page: 1998 Archive Cards *
> Hotspot: Card 66
>
> * Virdon
> * Section: Art & Info * Page: TV Ads * Hotspot: Ad
> for the episode of the TV show "The Trap"
>
> * Cornelius
> * Section: Art & Info * Page: 1968 Trading Cards * Hotspot:
> Card 26
>
> * Zaius
> * Section: Art & Info * Page: Novel Covers *
> Hotspot: Return To the Planet Of The Apes 3
> * Zira
> * Section: Art & Info * Page: Comic Covers *
> Hotspot: Marvel Magazine #16
>
> * Aldo
> * Section: Art & Info * Page: Toys * Hotspot:

> Medicom Packages - Aldo
>
> * Burke
> * Section: Video * Page: Greatest Moments *

Hotspot:

> Zauis' Study thumbnail pic
>
> * NOVA
> * Section: POTA One Sheets * Page: Beneath *
> Hotspot: Lobby Card #4
>
>
> The eggs will be left on the group site for the time being so that
> everyone can see them (and because I'm too lazy to remove them right
> now;-)
>
> And for some more good news. You didn't think we had just one set of
> cards did you? That's right we have another set of Graham's cards that
> will be given away in new contest next month, so stay tuned.
>
> Have a great weekend everyone!!!
>

It seems as if you all have no good things to say about the 2001
pota, but we neglect to see how wonderful the makeup was and the
costumes were. Rick Baker worked his butt off on those prosthetics and
even though the script and story were way screwed over, the visionary
prospect of the film was well worth it. Sure, Tim Burton is way out
there, but he had no control over the script changes aand I believe it
should have never been messed with. That's why he swore to NEVER
attempt another "Ape" movie again. Too many people threw their "two
cents" in and they created a monster of a mess...
And for the humans to have the power of speach...!
He didn't write the screenplay. He only followed orders...
We all know humans don't talk (except for Taylor and his crew)!
We all want to get paid for our endeavors. Unfortunately, Tim had
to kiss some butt and if you watch the second cd in the triple cd set
of POTA 2001, you can see his frustration if you pay a little
attention.
He's frazzled!
Yes, I am a fan of the 2001 and I loved Thade. He was one bad
Mother F*****!, okay? He was a nasty, snot blowin, bi-polar s.o.b. of
an alpha male and he really did deserve everything he had coming to
him. But that wasn't his fault.
Blame it on the script changing, bi-polar, A.D.D. Mofo's at Fox...
There was once a good story there.
It was a new volley and we didn't like it.
I did...
The makeup was real and not CGed like it could have been and there
were good actors. Maybe Mark Walberg would not have been my first
choice because his face was like stone(maybe because he was sick of
the script changes?), but he worked it as best as he could.
Well, he sucked, right?
Uhuh...
Okay. I vented. No one has to responde but I accept all criticism.
Take care and have a grande weekend.
:}

.html

In a message dated 7/29/2006 7:11:01 A.M. Central Daylight Time, atragon1@... writes:

never suspected that Galen was Cornelius' grandson....

That's because he was Milo's Grandson.

 

<.html

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "thadesdarlinghuman"
<thadesdarlinghuman@...> wrote:

>
> It seems as if you all have no good things to say about the 2001
> pota, but we neglect to see how wonderful the makeup was and the
> costumes were. Rick Baker worked his butt off on those prosthetics..

With the exception of Thade, Krull and an un-named gorilla captain at
the desert camp I thought the make-up was pretty poor. Chamber's make
up was ground breaking and revolutionised the art - Baker's was barely
adequate. (Heston and Warner are prime examples). Fair enough, Baker
states he was only following orders but he had the resources to blow
away anything we'd ever seen before - he didn't.

Dave

> Fair enough, Baker
> states he was only following orders but he had the resources to blow
> away anything we'd ever seen before - he didn't.

Wasn't he very short on time, too? But you're right, most of it
wasn't very good---certainly not up to normal Rick Baker standards as
I see them....

Hunter

The big problem with Burton's movie was that you didn't identify with
the Apes, because there were TOO MUCH LIKE APES. The original movies
let you cheer for the Apes against humans, because the actor's had
enough scope for their humanity to show through.It was a criminal waste
of Tim Roth to bury him under that make-up and, to this day, I still
can't understand what Attar is saying at some points--ridiculous.Oddly
enough, the make-up from the Burton movie looks superb in still photos,
but inadequate on screen.The costumes were amazing but would have been
better on Flash Gordon than in Apes.In 'Burton on Burton' Timmy says he
was more interested by the idea of Apes than the execution--which means
what? He got bored half way through? He realised the concept was wrong
but it was too late to turn back? I think Helena Bonham Carter was very
good, but the most appealing Ape in the movie is still Pericles. John,
Scrolls.

.html.htmlIn a message dated 7/30/06 4:04:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, thadesdarlinghuman@... writes:

It seems as if you all have no good things to say about the 2001
pota, but we neglect to see how wonderful the makeup was and the
costumes were.

Sorry, but I thought the costumes were dumb and the makeup design awful.  I believe even Rick Baker said he wish he'd had more time to work on it.  The idea of putting dentures in the actors' mouth was a good idea, but to then not have a lower chin appliance was a huge mistake.  Some of the chimpanzee makeups looked dreadful, including the very makeup Baker himself was in his cameo.  The look of the Ari makeup was as huge a disaster to POTADOM as the movie itself.

POTA 2001 was a disaster of Biblical proportions.

SCHLOCK is a better movie than POTA2001.

-- Rory<.html <.html

.html.htmlIn a message dated 7/30/06 9:01:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time, john@... writes:

It was a criminal waste
of Tim Roth to bury him under that make-up and, to this day, I still
can't understand what Attar is saying at some points--ridiculous.

I forgot to add this -- it was a good idea to have the actors wear dentures, it made the illusion look more real, but I don't understand why the actors couldn't have simply overdubbed all their dialogue later.  If I were the director that's what I would have insisted upon.

-- Rory<.html <.html

.html.htmlIn a message dated 7/30/06 9:01:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time, john@... writes:

In 'Burton on Burton' Timmy says he
was more interested by the idea of Apes than the execution--which means
what? He got bored half way through? He realised the concept was wrong
but it was too late to turn back? I think Helena Bonham Carter was very
good, but the most appealing Ape in the movie is still Pericles. John,
Scrolls.

In all honesty I have to say this about Tim Burton, he's not that "brilliant" an artist, in fact I think he's kind of dumb and very shallow with the "vision" thing.  He's mediocre at best.

-- Rory<.html <.html

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In a message dated 7/30/2006 4:04:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, thadesdarlinghuman@... writes:

but we neglect to see how wonderful the makeup was and the
costumes were.

That doesn't make a movie good. There are plenty of films out there with great make up and/or SFX that still stink the joint up. Unfortunately, POTA2001 is one of these. I don't blame Burton like some do, but he didn't have to do the job if he thought the script sucked (which it did). Wahlberg obviously slept walk through the entire film, not having a whit of the passion Charlton Heston brought to his role. Even James Franciscus, not one of the best actors around, out-acted Wahlberg. Johnny Depp would have been way better as Leo. In the end the blame for this fiasco has to fall on the Studio which rushed things.

 

 

"People shouldn't fear their governments, governments should fear their people."
V For Vendetta.

<.html

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In a message dated 7/30/2006 9:00:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time, john@... writes:

The original movies
let you cheer for the Apes against humans,

Not in the first two I didn't. I was on Taylor and Brent's side. In the last three my allegiance switched to the Apes.

 

 

"People shouldn't fear their governments, governments should fear their people."
V For Vendetta.

<.html

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In a message dated 7/30/2006 11:02:15 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Haristas@... writes:

SCHLOCK is a better movie than POTA2001.

Tanya's Island, too.

 

 

"People shouldn't fear their governments, governments should fear their people."
V For Vendetta.

<.html

> In
> the end the blame for this fiasco has to fall on the Studio which rushed
> things.

Frank Darabont (who directed THE SHAWSHANK REDEMPTION and THE GREEN
MILE) told me that he tried to tell the studio their script was awful
and what was wrong with it, but they weren't interested---they only
wanted to meet the release date they'd set.

Hunter

> Frank Darabont (who directed THE SHAWSHANK REDEMPTION and THE GREEN
> MILE) told me that he tried to tell the studio their script was awful
> and what was wrong with it, but they weren't interested---they only
> wanted to meet the release date they'd set.

I forgot to mention that Frank is also a huge PotA fan....

Hunter

.html.htmlIn a message dated 7/30/06 11:36:17 AM Eastern Daylight Time, goathunter@... writes:

Frank Darabont (who directed THE SHAWSHANK REDEMPTION and THE GREEN
MILE) told me that he tried to tell the studio their script was awful
and what was wrong with it, but they weren't interested---they only
wanted to meet the release date they'd set.

Hunter

POTA2001 was simply the modern 20th Century Fox studio's attempt to cash in on the continuing popularity of the APES films.  It was always conceived as nothing but that, with tie-ins like McDonald's Happy Meals with images of APES on it.  CRAP!

I really feel sorry for those that keep waiting for Fox to announce another APES movie, because all it means is more crap.

Ever here the old expression "There's no going home again"?  Fox will never make another APES movie that you'll go see and that will transport you back to 1975 or whatever and have the magic the originals had.  That was then and this is now.  "Get hold of that or you might as well be dead."

<.html<.html

Just because you make a movie that has a planet rules by apes, does
not mean it is "Planet of the Apes", pure and simple!...Transporters
and phasers does not make it "Star Trek", as lightsabers and droids
does not make it "Star Wars"...The 2001 disaster has nothing to do
with POTA, period...I'd rather watch "Mighty Joe Young"...

G

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "thadesdarlinghuman"
<thadesdarlinghuman@...> wrote:

>
> It seems as if you all have no good things to say about the 2001
> pota, but we neglect to see how wonderful the makeup was and the
> costumes were. Rick Baker worked his butt off on those prosthetics

and

> even though the script and story were way screwed over, the

visionary

> prospect of the film was well worth it. Sure, Tim Burton is way

out

> there, but he had no control over the script changes aand I believe

it

> should have never been messed with. That's why he swore to NEVER
> attempt another "Ape" movie again. Too many people threw their "two
> cents" in and they created a monster of a mess...
> And for the humans to have the power of speach...!
> He didn't write the screenplay. He only followed orders...
> We all know humans don't talk (except for Taylor and his crew)!
> We all want to get paid for our endeavors. Unfortunately, Tim

had

> to kiss some butt and if you watch the second cd in the triple cd

set

> of POTA 2001, you can see his frustration if you pay a little
> attention.
> He's frazzled!
> Yes, I am a fan of the 2001 and I loved Thade. He was one bad
> Mother F*****!, okay? He was a nasty, snot blowin, bi-polar s.o.b.

of

> an alpha male and he really did deserve everything he had coming to
> him. But that wasn't his fault.
> Blame it on the script changing, bi-polar, A.D.D. Mofo's at

Fox...

> There was once a good story there.
> It was a new volley and we didn't like it.
> I did...
> The makeup was real and not CGed like it could have been and

there

> were good actors. Maybe Mark Walberg would not have been my first
> choice because his face was like stone(maybe because he was sick of
> the script changes?), but he worked it as best as he could.
> Well, he sucked, right?
> Uhuh...
> Okay. I vented. No one has to responde but I accept all

criticism.

> Take care and have a grande weekend.
> :}
>

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In a message dated 7/30/2006 3:04:19 A.M. Central Daylight Time, thadesdarlinghuman@... writes:

He didn't write the screenplay. He only followed orders...

 

Directors don't follow orders, they give them.

Do you think anyone gave John Ford an order?

Directors are only responsible to one person,

the producer, and sometimes no even them.

And there have been plenty of directors who

didn't write the script the rewrote it. Happens

all the time.  And that's the kind of director

the project needed.  They rewrote that script

more than once, and then brought in a couple

of hacks to finish it off.  And don't bring up any

script they wrote before to defend them.  POTA

is enough to prove they're hacks -- not to mention

the movie version of The Beverly Hillbillies!  Hacks!

 

<.html

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In a message dated 7/29/2006 11:11:03 A.M. Central Daylight Time, atragon1@... writes:

Action Jackson? That wimp!

BIG JIM would make short work of him....

 

Was that the one with expanding biceps and Kung Fu action?

 

 

<.html

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In a message dated 7/30/2006 3:04:19 A.M. Central Daylight Time, thadesdarlinghuman@... writes:

There was once a good story there.

 

Possibly.  Everyone raved about the

original script.  But since no one here

as seen a copy it's hard to say.  I have

to wonder though.  Centaurs?  Please!

 

<.html

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In a message dated 7/30/2006 3:48:49 A.M. Central Daylight Time, smugster2000@... writes:

Baker's was barely adequate

 

There were lots of problems with it.

No need to rehash the dentures-in

overdubbing and the female's eyebrows.

 

<.html

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In a message dated 7/30/2006 6:32:40 A.M. Central Daylight Time, goathunter@... writes:

not up to normal Rick Baker standards as
I see them....

Was he even nominated for it?

I don't think he was.  Maybe

for the Makeup Artist's Guide awards.

 

 

<.html

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In a message dated 7/30/2006 3:04:19 A.M. Central Daylight Time, thadesdarlinghuman@... writes:

Sure, Tim Burton is way out
there, but he had no control over the script changes

Yes he does!

That's a director's job!.

He is responsible for everything!

He may have had pressure from

the Studio, but it's up to him as

a director to fight for his vision or

resign. The director must approve

ALL script changes.  Zanuck no

doubt bullied him. But if he's that

big a wimp he has no business

directing a major motion picture.

In Hollywood everyone wants the

credit and no one wants the blame.

 

<.html

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In a message dated 7/30/2006 10:44:37 A.M. Central Daylight Time, Haristas@... writes:

Fox will never make another APES movie that you'll go see and that will transport you back to 1975 or whatever and have the magic the originals had. 

 

Fox might not.  And I wish they would sell the rights.

I think it's time another studio took a whack at it.

 

<.html

Nothing to be sorry about. You're entitled to your opinion.

You have to remember most of us here became POTA fans in our
childhood when we saw one of the original films or TV show. They of
course will always be first in our hearts.

For most of us we were hoping that the remake would capture the
sense of wonder & magic we felt when we were kids. Unfortunately it
did not which was a major disappointment.

Additionally, the remake killed the franchise for the time being. To
those of us who had been 25 for a new Apes film that was a high
crime.

Thank God for MR Comics and their Revolution series. They have
really recaputred the magic of the original series.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "thadesdarlinghuman"
<thadesdarlinghuman@...> wrote:

>
> It seems as if you all have no good things to say about the 2001
> pota, but we neglect to see how wonderful the makeup was and the
> costumes were. Rick Baker worked his butt off on those prosthetics

and

> even though the script and story were way screwed over, the

visionary

> prospect of the film was well worth it. Sure, Tim Burton is way

out

> there, but he had no control over the script changes aand I

believe it

> should have never been messed with. That's why he swore to NEVER
> attempt another "Ape" movie again. Too many people threw

their "two

> cents" in and they created a monster of a mess...
> And for the humans to have the power of speach...!
> He didn't write the screenplay. He only followed orders...
> We all know humans don't talk (except for Taylor and his

crew)!

> We all want to get paid for our endeavors. Unfortunately, Tim

had

> to kiss some butt and if you watch the second cd in the triple cd

set

> of POTA 2001, you can see his frustration if you pay a little
> attention.
> He's frazzled!
> Yes, I am a fan of the 2001 and I loved Thade. He was one bad
> Mother F*****!, okay? He was a nasty, snot blowin, bi-polar s.o.b.

of

> an alpha male and he really did deserve everything he had coming

to

> him. But that wasn't his fault.
> Blame it on the script changing, bi-polar, A.D.D. Mofo's at

Fox...

> There was once a good story there.
> It was a new volley and we didn't like it.
> I did...
> The makeup was real and not CGed like it could have been and

there

> were good actors. Maybe Mark Walberg would not have been my first
> choice because his face was like stone(maybe because he was sick

of

> the script changes?), but he worked it as best as he could.
> Well, he sucked, right?
> Uhuh...
> Okay. I vented. No one has to responde but I accept all

criticism.

> Take care and have a grande weekend.
> :}
>

You're very welcome Kevin.

I'd also like to thank Greg P., Dave and our friends at Simian Scrolls
for providing the cards for us to give away.


--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "carrythecoffin" <carrythecoffin@...>
wrote:

>
> Kevin most definitely does enjoy the cards he won and he thanks you,
> James and Graham Hill for these cards. They are very impressive indeed
> and the artwork is masterful. It was a honor to win them. Thanks so
> much from a grateful Apes fan.
>
> Kevin

You make a very good point here John. The original film wasn't about
Apes it was about exploring the human condition. That's what they
forgot in the remake.

I remember an article I read on the original films many years ago.
It said something to the effect that the producers could have gone
the easy route and have the Apes bear their teeth and growl but they
were higher minded than that. Of course the first shot of an ape in
the remake it was bearing it's teeth and growling.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "shanter2002" <john@...> wrote:
>
> The big problem with Burton's movie was that you didn't identify
with
> the Apes, because there were TOO MUCH LIKE APES. The original
movies
> let you cheer for the Apes against humans, because the actor's had
> enough scope for their humanity to show through.It was a criminal
waste
> of Tim Roth to bury him under that make-up and, to this day, I
still
> can't understand what Attar is saying at some points--
ridiculous.Oddly
> enough, the make-up from the Burton movie looks superb in still
photos,
> but inadequate on screen.The costumes were amazing but would have
been
> better on Flash Gordon than in Apes.In 'Burton on Burton' Timmy
says he
> was more interested by the idea of Apes than the execution--which
means
> what? He got bored half way through? He realised the concept was
wrong
> but it was too late to turn back? I think Helena Bonham Carter was
very
> good, but the most appealing Ape in the movie is still Pericles.
John,
> Scrolls.
>

Very true. I've never found anything he's done to be that good.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@... wrote:
>
>
> In all honesty I have to say this about Tim Burton, he's not
that "brilliant"
> an artist, in fact I think he's kind of dumb and very shallow with
the
> "vision" thing. He's mediocre at best.
>
> -- Rory
>

>> Action Jackson? That wimp!
>> BIG JIM would make short work of him....

> Was that the one with expanding biceps and Kung Fu action?

Yes, it was. I loved the Big Jim line. And no, not in that way....
He was cool. I had the big Big Jim camper and campsite playset....

Hunter

.html

Reminder from the Calendar of pota Don Murray's & France Nuyen's Birthdays Monday July 31, 2006 All Day This event repeats every year.

Copyright ©  2006  Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved.

<.html

I think, for me, the only memorable movie he ever made
was "Beetlejuice"...Others have been EXTREMELY forgettable...

G

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "James" <JamesA1102@...> wrote:
>
> Very true. I've never found anything he's done to be that good.
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@ wrote:
> >
> >
> > In all honesty I have to say this about Tim Burton, he's not
> that "brilliant"
> > an artist, in fact I think he's kind of dumb and very shallow
with
> the
> > "vision" thing. He's mediocre at best.
> >
> > -- Rory
> >
>

In 1999 (approx) Warner Brothers greenlit a project where primitive
apes were sent into space and returned to earth intelligent. I don't
remember the name, but it sounded similar to Escape.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@... wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 7/30/2006 10:44:37 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
> Haristas@... writes:
>
> Fox will never make another APES movie that you'll go see and that
will
> transport you back to 1975 or whatever and have the magic the
originals had.
>
>
>
> Fox might not. And I wish they would sell the rights.
> I think it's time another studio took a whack at it.
>

I've always found something to enjoy in all of Burton's movies. The
Ice dance in Edward scissorhands - 'Ed Wood' was very enjoyable - and
'Sleepy Hollow' was a visual feast. I'll raise my hand and admit I was
actually quite excited when I heard he'd got the Apes gig. I remember
thinking 'If nothing else it'll look good'.

At that time (2000/01) James Cameron and Stan Winston were my dream
team, it's a shame that version fell through.

POTA 2010, written by Ty Templeton, make up by Brian Penikas - that
works for me!

Dave

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "hotscheetz" <HotScheetz@...> wrote:
>
> I think, for me, the only memorable movie he ever made
> was "Beetlejuice"...Others have been EXTREMELY forgettable...
>
> G

Ahhhhh....John Ford, director of classic films.Genius. Mentioning Ford
in the context of Burton is a culture shock of major proportions--
nobody will be watching Burton's movies in 50 years.I'm watching The
Searchers special edition at the moment and itstruck me that Apes can
actually boast the definitive Ford shot---that gorilla holding his
rifle over his head against the sun in the TV Series credits--that's
pure John Ford! John, Scrolls.

Well, I personally feel sorry for Zaius when Taylor humiliates him by
tying him up--I see an old guy brought low, not an Ape.I feel for
Cornelius when Taylor insists on having a gun, and shoots down
Cornelius' authority in the process. I'm on Ursus' side against the
Mutants, especially after the crucifiction scene.I like Zira and
Cornelius more than I like any of the human characters.That's without
even looking at the final three.In Burton's Apes, only Ari seems to
establish a character and that's not particularly gripping.It's the
Apes who make Apes work.John, Scrolls.

Thanks Jose,

Very cute.

James

>
> Hello,
>
> This email message is a notification to let you know that
> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of your pota
> group.
>
> File : /JR/corniyzira.wmv
> Uploaded by : joseramonruizdiez <joseramonruizdiez@...>
> Description : ape love story
>
> You can access the file at the URL:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/JR/corniyzira.wmv
>
> Your group is currently configured to send you email
> notification whenever a member uploads a file. To turn off
> notification, visit:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/join
>
> Thank you for choosing Yahoo! Groups as your email group
> service for the pota group.
>
> Regards,
>
> Yahoo! Groups Customer Care
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html

In a message dated 7/31/2006 2:43:17 A.M. Central Daylight Time, john@... writes:

-- that's pure John Ford!

 

John Ford used to bitch out John Wayne three times before breakfast,

and John Wayne was his friend!  But he didn't want to play favorites.

He was there to work.  He was harder on him than people he didn't like.

 

 

<.html

.html<.html

.html<.html

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In a message dated 7/31/2006 12:38:55 P.M. Central Daylight Time, Willowape@... writes:

Even Edward Sissor hands with Vincent Price?

The best thing about it was the soundtrack, which I have.

The only movie of his I'd consider owning is Ed Wood,

though I'd rather have the soundtrack of that too.

Maybe it's because it's in B&W or because it's

deliberately cheap, but it has an indie feel to it.

 

 

<.html

.html

In a message dated 7/30/2006 4:16:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

Was that the one with expanding biceps and Kung Fu action?

GI Joe would kill them all. I mean the REAL G.I. Joe, the 12 inch badass.

 

 

"People shouldn't fear their governments, governments should fear their people."
V For Vendetta.

<.html

.html

In a message dated 7/30/2006 11:36:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time, goathunter@... writes:

they only
wanted to meet the release date they'd set.

Which is exactly what hurt Star Trek The Motion(less) Picture. Paramount promised a film on December 7th (appropros!) and it had to be out then. Crummy script equaled crappy movie.

 

 

"People shouldn't fear their governments, governments should fear their people."
V For Vendetta.

<.html

.html

In a message dated 7/30/2006 7:06:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

Thank God for MR Comics and their Revolution series. They have
really recaputred the magic of the original series.

I disagree. They've gone off on a tangent of their own with the Church Door bit and putting the Apes in San Diego. It's a fun series, way better than the lame B/W one from years back (not the Marvel), but it could be better.

 

 

"People shouldn't fear their governments, governments should fear their people."
V For Vendetta.

<.html

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Mithril1960@... wrote:

> Which is exactly what hurt Star Trek The Motion(less) Picture. Paramount
> promised a film on December 7th (appropros!) and it had to be out then. Crummy
> script equaled crappy movie.

Wow.

I've learned that I'm in very much the minority here.

I like ST: The Motion Picture. I like it. A lot. Not as much as some of the original episodes
or the three films following, but I like it.

I like Burton. I enjoyed Ed Wood quite a bit. His Batman and Batman Returns, while not
perfect, marked a turn around for comic book movies. Andon every subsequent viewing of
Batman Returns, I like it more. It's by no means on any "best of" list for me, but it's
something I can watch every five years or so. Edward Scissorhands is a gorgeous film with
quite a bit of heart, actually. Sleepy Hollow was OK -- visually it was pretty, conceptually it
was alright. I even liked Mars Attacks. He is a visual director, and when he is given a good
story with good characters, he will direct a movie with good story and good characters (Ed
Wood comes to mind). When he's not given that, he won't. His films are for the eye.

I like POTA '01. I've watched it a few times and I liked it. Of course it will NEVER catch that
moment in time again when I first saw POTA. I hope nothing ever does! The memory of
something will never be matched. You can't catch these things in a bottle and if you do, it
becomes false and fake. I went into that movie expecting it to be AWFUL. For what it is --
a modern summer blockbuster popcorn movie -- it worked. I enjoyed it, ate the popcorn,
laughed at Heston and all the campiness, and liked the "twist" ending, if you want to call it
that.

I like camp. POTA -- even the original -- has moments of camp. Unitentional camp, to be
sure, but in the years it has become campy. It's not Adam West campy, of course . . . but
campy in hte same way that some of those old Twilight Zone episodes have become
campy.

Maybe Burton's POTA ruined the franchise. That's probably a good thing, though, because
if the franchise had continued from that film, there would have been no end of
complaining.

Or maybe that would be a good thing. I mean, this is INTERNET FANDOM. Gotta have
something to whine about.

I like Logan's Run. Enjoyed Omega Man. Appreciated moments of Soylant Green . . .

I guess I'm just some sort of idiot -- and fully expect to be treated like one after sending
this. I'm not negative enough for this list, I guess. (For the record, I am also a fan of Terry
Gilliam, 70's-90's Spielberg, the original Superman film, Citizen Kane, old time radio
drama . . . I'm not some kid waiting with his tongue wagging out for the next Fast and
Furious movie. I'm a 30-year-old who likes a lot of different things.)

i joined this list because I wanted to read about and write about things I like --
specifically, POTA. Not all the things other people don't like. I don't have time to sift
through everyone bitching and complaining about how bad Logan's Run was. Or calling
Tim Burton names and calling his character into question. I guess I forgot -- "internet
fandom" -- what did I expect?

The things that are ruining my memories of those things I like aren't the remakes and
sequels . . . it's sifting through all the negativity about them.

Peace out . . .

~ Ben Avery, the idiot who likes Time of the Apes

I struggle to find anything remotely likable about
Burton's fiasco, but I'll grant you that I did
like the look of the costumes when I first saw the
teaser posters. Of course they didn't have any red
variations on the posters, unlike the films - I
kind of assumed that the red version of the armour
was what the gorillas wore when the local garrison
held a 70s night.

The make-up was piss-poor on all fronts, with the
female chimps looking especially ridiculous (Ari,
Michael Jackson - what's the difference?) and most
of the actors struggling to either speak or make
any kind of facial expression through it. If
Baker's make-up did anything, it showed what a
bloody genius John Chambers was. Over thirty years
later and somehow we have managed to get make-up
that is actually worse than it was originally. So
much for progress.

I can't even begin to describe all the places
where this movie went wrong. I had one of those
"Attack of the Clones" experiences when I left the
cinema - you know, where you try desperately to
convince yourself that what you just saw wasn't
unfathomably ****, only for the truth to sink in
over the next couple of days - and now find it
totally unwatchable.

In fact, I hadn't watched it all since its cinema
release and then a few months ago it appeared on
UK TV. I didn't intend on watching it at all, but
accidentally caught a bit while channel hopping
and managed to last only about three seconds
before I was filled with a venomous rage and
wanted to hit someone or something. Really, really
hard.

This puddle of putrid bile is an insult to all
right-minded and free-thinking individuals the
world over and someone should be hanged for it.

Of course, everyone has a right to an opinion
though. I'm happy for those who enjoy it - I
really, really wish I could. But no, it just makes
me want to vomit and punch a Fox executive in the
face.

Your opinion may vary.

Alan

.html

In a message dated 7/31/2006 4:49:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, whisperingloon@... writes:

I like Burton. I enjoyed Ed Wood quite a bit. His Batman and Batman Returns, while not
perfect, marked a turn around for comic book movies. Andon every subsequent viewing of
Batman Returns, I like it more. It's by no means on any "best of" list for me, but it's
something I can watch every five years or so. Edward Scissorhands is a gorgeous film with
quite a bit of heart, actually. Sleepy Hollow was OK -- visually it was pretty, conceptually it
was alright. I even liked Mars Attacks. He is a visual director, and when he is given a good
story with good characters, he will direct a movie with good story and good characters (Ed
Wood comes to mind). When he's not given that, he won't. His films are for the eye.

You're not in the minority here. I liked Vincent (his short), Frankenweenie and both Nightmare Before Christmas and The Corpse Bride. I also liked Edward Scissorhands and Sleepy Hollow. Ed Wood was fun as well. And I liked both Batmans.

 

 

"People shouldn't fear their governments, governments should fear their people."
V For Vendetta.

<.html

Edward Scissorhands was depressing to me...I luved everything Vincent
Price did, and I think Johnny Depp is a genius of an actor, but I still
didn't care for it -- especially at the end...It was too dark and
down...

G

.html The main problem with pota 2001 was the story and lack of character development except for Thade. So much more could have been done with Krull and Ari. Thade was more like a typical chimp nowadays, wild and angry. Elaine <.html

.html <.html

.html.htmlIn a message dated 7/31/06 5:31:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, alan@... writes:

If
Baker's make-up did anything, it showed what a
bloody genius John Chambers was.

John Chambers was God!!!!!!<.html <.html

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, taebokitti@... wrote:

>
> I enjoyed Burton's Sleepy Hollow and Ed Wood. I thought Depp did a great job
> as Ed Wood.
> Mars Attacks was excruciating at times to sit through and I thought Big Fish
> lacked the Burton creativity. Maybe more people would have liked pota 2001 if
> it was called something else. Elaine
>

Good point. About calling it something else.

Like Time Machine 2002 -- or as I called it, POTA 2002. There was a movie I was utterly
dissappointed in, but I went in with HIGH expectations. It had some cool elements. That
was about it.

I think the ratio between expectations and reality may have a direct correlation to people's
reactions. People expecting a return to the first POTA, or a return to the spirit of the first
POTA, did not get it. People knowing that was impossible probably had a less extreme
reaction.

I'll go on record saying that if POTA fans actually got the film they seem to want, it would
probably be a box office failure.

There has to be a happy medium. POTA 2001 was not it. As vitriolic members of "internet
fandom" will be quite happy to spend hours of their time ranting about.

Of course, I probably would not have been able to buy the POTA TV series when I did had
it not been for that film. And the POTA models. And that POTA video game. None of those,
btw, were related to the 2001 film . . .

I liked Big Fish (completely forgot about it) mostly because it was different than the usual
Burtan fare . . . but at the same time, not different at all.

Ben

True they have gone off on a bit of a tangent but not as far as past
comics have gone. The one thing that impresses me about the Revolution
comics is that there is a reverence for the original series. Something
I haven't felt before. Even Marvel went too far from the original
premise with the whole 'Brains in Jars' thing. The guys at MR, Joe &
Ty, are fans of the original are merely adding a layer of depth. True
it is their interpetation, which is why it is set in San Diego, but
they are at least trying to maintain respect for the original.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Mithril1960@... wrote:
>
>
> I disagree. They've gone off on a tangent of their own with the
Church Door
> bit and putting the Apes in San Diego. It's a fun series, way better
than the
> lame B/W one from years back (not the Marvel), but it could be better.
>

Please Alan, don't hold back. Tell us what you really think;-)

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Alan Maxwell" <alan@...> wrote:
>
> I struggle to find anything remotely likable about
> Burton's fiasco, but I'll grant you that I did
> like the look of the costumes when I first saw the
> teaser posters. Of course they didn't have any red
> variations on the posters, unlike the films - I
> kind of assumed that the red version of the armour
> was what the gorillas wore when the local garrison
> held a 70s night.
>
> The make-up was piss-poor on all fronts, with the
> female chimps looking especially ridiculous (Ari,
> Michael Jackson - what's the difference?) and most
> of the actors struggling to either speak or make
> any kind of facial expression through it. If
> Baker's make-up did anything, it showed what a
> bloody genius John Chambers was. Over thirty years
> later and somehow we have managed to get make-up
> that is actually worse than it was originally. So
> much for progress.
>
> I can't even begin to describe all the places
> where this movie went wrong. I had one of those
> "Attack of the Clones" experiences when I left the
> cinema - you know, where you try desperately to
> convince yourself that what you just saw wasn't
> unfathomably ****, only for the truth to sink in
> over the next couple of days - and now find it
> totally unwatchable.
>
> In fact, I hadn't watched it all since its cinema
> release and then a few months ago it appeared on
> UK TV. I didn't intend on watching it at all, but
> accidentally caught a bit while channel hopping
> and managed to last only about three seconds
> before I was filled with a venomous rage and
> wanted to hit someone or something. Really, really
> hard.
>
> This puddle of putrid bile is an insult to all
> right-minded and free-thinking individuals the
> world over and someone should be hanged for it.
>
> Of course, everyone has a right to an opinion
> though. I'm happy for those who enjoy it - I
> really, really wish I could. But no, it just makes
> me want to vomit and punch a Fox executive in the
> face.
>
> Your opinion may vary.
>
> Alan
>

Ben,

You seem to be mighty negative about this list and I think this is an
unfair assessment. For the most part this group is pretty positive.
True, POTA2001 is a sticking point to many of us here. But then you're
only judging us on the tone of one thread which is not very fair. Go
back and read some the archives of this group over the past two years
and I think you'll see that your initial judgement is just not the case.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Ben" <whisperingloon@...> wrote:
>
> I'm not negative enough for this list, I guess.

Here again I'll have to disagree with you. As someone earlier said we
are never going to a sixth or seventh sequel as if it had been produced
in 1975. But I don't think that is what most people want.

All the original films were hits in their day because they showed
respect for the intelligence of the audience (maybe with the exception
of Battle). Those films were not about Apes but about exploring the
human condition.

Twenty years ago when 'Star Trek - The Next Generation' was first
announced many said the original could never be remade. Yet while Next
Gen was very different from the original Star Trek it still managed to
capture its spirit.

I think that is what most fans want. Something that captures the spirit
of the original. Not some quicky bubble gum movie.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Ben" <whisperingloon@...> wrote:
>
>
> I'll go on record saying that if POTA fans actually got the film they
seem to want, it would
> probably be a box office failure.
>

What about Pee Wee's Big Adventure?

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "drhasslein" <drhasslein@...> wrote:

>
> What about Pee Wee's Big Adventure?
>

"I know you are, but what am I?"

I'm glad to see how someone else sees how things can be twisted.
This is the twenty-first century and unfortunatly things change...
including our apes. And it sets a stage... A stage for a fresh
new outlook of how it would be on a planet ruled by apes...
No mercy...

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "hotscheetz" <HotScheetz@...> wrote:

>
> Edward Scissorhands was depressing to me...I luved everything

Vincent

> Price did, and I think Johnny Depp is a genius of an actor, but I

still

> didn't care for it -- especially at the end...It was too dark and
> down...
>
> G
>

Exactly...

I LOVE YOU ALL for your unbiased comments...
Not a nasty snort in the crowd...
Now, who has the balls to direct the NEW POTA???
I will...
"Fox"???
Hello?
Anyone there?
This is simian compassion speaking here!
We need to find a Zira-type character(Ari).
Now, a Zaius (Thade).
Don't go jumping to conclusions, now. You know Zaius held the
answers. Thade does now thanks to his father!
Attar, well, he is just not mean enough yet...
If he's to REALLY be Thade's (Zaius') henchman he needs more
backbone, right?
Make him meaner...
Oh but gorillas are not aggressive, don'tyaknow...
Chimpanzees are...
They're carnivors...
Nasty little bastards in their true nature which is what we as
ape lovers do not like to see.
It is survival of the fittest in our day and age and we who sat
and watched the original flix are passive in the belief in how the
apes REALLY behave, and we don't like it...
They ARE SAVAGES....
FUTURE SHOCK, folks...
I don't like it and you don't either...
But, in reality, they are fighting for survival, so why not
apply it?
Woah...
Aggressiveness?
YEAH!!!!
Just dump Leo Davidson and get another character with some
prowess, okay?
Any questions, FOX????
ASK US HERE where we care about our APES!!!!!!!

Sincerely,
Thades Darling Human...
;]