>
> *By Chris Stephen and Allan Hall*
>
> The Soviet dictator Josef Stalin ordered the creation of Planet of

> Apes-style warriors by crossing humans with apes, according to

> uncovered secret documents.
> Moscow archives show that in the mid-1920s Russia's top animal

> scientist, Ilya Ivanov, was ordered to turn his skills from horse

> work to the quest for a super-warrior. According to Moscow

> Stalin told the scientist: "I want a new invincible human being,

> to pain, resistant and indifferent about the quality of food they

>
> In 1926 the Politburo in Moscow passed the request to the Academy

> with the order to build a "living war machine". The order came at a

> when the Soviet Union was embarked on a crusade to turn the world

> down, with social engineering seen as a partner to

> cities, architecture, and a new egalitarian society were being
> created.TheSoviet authorities were struggling to rebuild the Red

> after bruising
> wars.
>
> And there was intense pressure to find a new labour force,

> that would not complain, with Russia about to embark on its first

> Plan for fast-track industrialisation.
>
> Mr Ivanov was highly regarded. He had established his reputation

> Tsar when in 1901 he established the world's first centre for the

> insemination of racehorses.
>
> Mr Ivanov's ideas were music to the ears of Soviet planners and in

> was dispatched to West Africa with $200,000 to conduct his first

> in impregnating chimpanzees.
>
> Meanwhile, a centre for the experiments was set up in Georgia -

> birthplace - for the apes to be raised.
>
> Mr Ivanov's experiments, unsurprisingly from what we now know, were

> failure. He returned to the Soviet Union, only to see experiments

> to use monkey sperm in human volunteers similarly fail.
>
> A final attempt to persuade a Cuban heiress to lend some of her

> further experiments reached American ears, with the New York Times

> on the story, and she dropped the idea amid the uproar.
>
> Mr Ivanov was now in disgrace. His were not the only experiments

> wrong: the plan to collectivise farms ended in the 1932 famine in

> least four million died.
>
> For his expensive failure, he was sentenced to five years' jail,

> later commuted to five years' exile in the Central Asian republic of
> Kazakhstan in 1931. A year later he died, reportedly after falling

> while standing on a freezing railway platform.
>
>
>
> Jessica.
>
> http://monkeyboxer.com/2008/01/11/stalins-simian-super-soldiers/
>

>Posted by: "Jeff" RedSpy13@... intsgt13
>I find it interesting that in "Planet", Cornelius and Zira know
>nothing about man's past superiority. Then, in "Escape", they both
>seems to know the entire history of man's superiority and downfall.
>They make it sound as if it was taught to all ape school children.
>This makes Dr. Zaius' "keeper of the faith" secrets a bit
>unnecessary. A bit of a continuity error, but just an observation on
>my part.

>Another question I have is for "Battle". If Caesar is the same ape
>from "Conquest", how did all apes acquire speech and a culture in
>just a few years?

>Remember, Virgil seems to be a genius who
>knows "everything about everything". How did he gain all this
>knowledge in such a short span of years?

>In "Battle", Virgil uses the same highway with multiple lanes example
>to explain time travel that was used by Dr. Hasslein in "Escape". If
>Hasslein knew a dreaded ape was using his example, he would roll over
>in his grave. LOL

>Also, how would Virgil know about cars and highways, anyway?

>That's a terrible theory. Taylor "goes into the future" before the
>three apeonauts arrive in ESCAPE, so his flight is never affected by
>anything in the last three films. In fact, the events of Taylor's
>life, his timeline, are over and done with by the beginning of ESCAPE.
>-- Rory

>Posted by: "Jeff K." veetus@... damndirty68
>I think the point is that we see ape and human children (children
>are the future) together but the Caesar statue cries because it
>can't stay that way (even the children fight). As we know from our
>own times, we're screwed. Jeff
>P.S. I never bought the "tear of joy" argument; un"Apes-like.

>Posted by: "Jeff" RedSpy13@... intsgt13
>Also, all the hatches and windows were blown out of the Icarus when
>it crashed into the inland sea in "Planet", so how did the chimps
>recover, repair (with the waterlogged electronics), and then re-
>launch the ship in "Escape"?

>And also, in "Planet" the year is established as 3978, but after that
>the mythology lists the year as being 3955. Boy, we can nitpick,
>can't we? LOL It's a good thing they didn't have regular continuity
>checkers back then, or we would be flooding him with hate mail. LOL

>Posted by: "Haristas@..." Haristas@... haristas
>"As we know from our own times, we're screwed. Jeff"
>Let's have a survey here... Who actually believes "we're screwed"? Are
>these the end times for mankind, or will we somehow muddle through the
>mess we've made and things will get better? Of course, eventually our
>species will go extinct, but will that be tomorrow or eons from now?

On 1/11/08, pbar100 <paul@...> wrote:

I don't know if this has been posted or not, but just in case it
hasn't -
There is a very good Planet Of The Apes feature (focusing on the TV
series) in a current issue of SFX magazine. It's a Retro special of
the magazine, featuring classic sci fi TV shows, it has Hulk, the
Bionics, Knight Rider in it etc.
Worth buying for the Apes feature alone.
A must have if you're into retro sci fi TV!

I bought mine yesterday at WH wmith (here in the UK)so it's still
available.

"Another question I have is for "Battle". If Caesar is the same ape
from "Conquest", how did all apes acquire speech and a culture in
just a few years? Remember, Virgil seems to be a genius who
knows "everything about everything". How did he gain all this
knowledge in such a short span of years? I first thought that Caesar
was a descendant of the original Caesar (Milo), but then MacDonald
states that his brother was the man who aided Caesar in "Conquest",
so this has to be only a few years in the future. Quite a big
evolutionary leap for such a short period.

Jeff (RedSpy)"

That's one of the reasons why BATTLE stinks. The producers had painted
themselves into a corner and didn't have the kind of budget they needed
for a script that would be better than it was, which is just slightly
superior to a segment of the "Banana Splits."

-- Rory

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
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---

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I think there's a lot that's cheesy in BENEATH, a picture that
literally goes downhill all by itself. ESCAPE has a much better
script, I just wish they'd done the makeup better.

-- Rory

-----Original Message-----
From: john rutkoski <rutkoskijohn@ yahoo.com>
To: pota@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 8:03 pm
Subject: Re: [pota] Re: Battle for the Planet of the Apes

i like your thinking mario. the later sequels were cheesy.  now do you
have the world  destroyed  just as it is in beneath.

mariohnelatin@ aol.com wrote: To be perfectly
honest with all of you...I would disregard most of what happened after
part 2...it was all sort of rushed cheesy sequel stuff put together for
a fast buck. I think that the best way to go would be that the world
ends due to good old fashion human on human fighting, and that a set of
genetically engineered apes escapes captivity (lab) to form a new
society. Humans are almost
all wiped out by diseases after the war. The apes are immune and while
they ar able to co-habitate for a while with humans, they develop their
own anti tech faith...sort of a Taliban type mentality and decide that
the humans should not be allowed to speak...an ape "scientist"
genetically engineers humans to not be able to speak. All othe
humans are killed....like the Nazis and Commies in China did to the non
party line towing folks. I always thought that going further in the
tradition of classic science fiction and Rod Serlings stories in
particular was the way to go. That the apes ascension should be a
warning about our potential for self destruction, religious fanaticism,
and nazi/communinist totalitarian government. Whta ya guys think?  
Mario Medina

Huntleigh Latin America
2602 NW 97 Avenue
Miami, FL 33172
Tel: 305-463-0526
Fax: 305-463-0216
E-mail: mariohnelatin@ aol.com or hnelatin@aol. com
http://www.huntleig h-healthcare. com/

Start the year off right. Easy ways
to stay in shape in the new year.

Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

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#AOLMsgPart_ 2_fa704878- e624-426c- 84ff-726ce0f856b e

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
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--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@... wrote:
>
> "As we know from our own times, we're screwed. Jeff"
>
> Let's have a survey here... Who actually believes "we're
screwed"? Are
> these the end times for mankind, or will we somehow muddle through
the
> mess we've made and things will get better? Of course, eventually
our
> species will go extinct, but will that be tomorrow or eons from
now?
>
> -- Rory
>
>
>
_________

Screenwriter Paul Dehn stated that the final shot of a tear rolling from the eye of the statue of Caesar is a final comment to the audience that Caesar's vision of a joint ape/human society ultimately failed.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> I think the point is that we see ape and human children (children are the future) together but the Caesar statue cries because it can't stay that way (even the children fight). As we know from our own times, we're screwed. Jeff
> P.S. I never bought the "tear of joy" argument; un"Apes-like.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: thisizit73
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 5:06 AM
> Subject: [pota] in regards to the tear
>
>
> In the ending with Battle, "we may never know" will always be a
> mystery, but we see the apes and children treated as equals, why then
> would the Earth be destroyed. My thinking is when Taylor and his crew
> do go into the future, they will know what has happened to the Earth,
> they will learn the history of how Ape society was created. There will
> be no need to go into the Forbidden Zone, he will not meet the mutants
> and he will no see the Statue of Liberty and there will be no need to
> use the bomb. But that is my theory.
> toodles.........
>

>Posted by: "Haristas@..." Haristas@... haristas
>"The Icarus question is the big one--there's simply no way Milo would
>have been able to (a) find the ship, (b) raise it, (c) repair it, (d)
>learn to fly it, (e) fuel it and (f) launch it into orbit."
>I have the answer to that question: 20th Century-Fox calls you, tells
>you "Apes survive, third film required," your name is Paul Dehn and you
>want a paycheck. Under those conditions, Milo could fly out Taylor's
>butt!

On 1/12/08, zasco1957 <Zasco1957@...> wrote:

It's possible that, after Cornelius and Zira's trial for heresy, Dr. Zaius pled for clemency...and then he showed them scrolls that told about man and his downfall.   As for BATTLE, do you think that it may have been due to the radiation?   Zach      -------Original Message-------   From: Jeff Date: 01/11/08 09:37:32 To: pota@yahoogroups.com Subject: [pota] Re: Battle for the Planet of the Apes   I find it interesting that in "Planet", Cornelius and Zira know nothing about man's past superiority. Then, in "Escape", they both seems to know the entire history of man's superiority and downfall. They make it sound as if it was taught to all ape school children. This makes Dr. Zaius' "keeper of the faith" secrets a bit unnecessary. A bit of a continuity error, but just an observation on my part. Another question I have is for "Battle". If Caesar is the same ape from "Conquest", how did all apes acquire speech and a culture in just a few years? Remember, Virgil seems to be a genius who knows "everything about everything". How did he gain all this knowledge in such a short span of years? I first thought that Caesar was a descendant of the original Caesar (Milo), but then MacDonald states that his brother was the man who aided Caesar in "Conquest", so this has to be only a few years in the future. Quite a big evolutionary leap for such a short period. Jeff (RedSpy) --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, mariohnelatin@... wrote: > > Beneath does go down a bit...very true. But Escape seals the fate of the boys > and Nova. > > I would rather change it so that Zaius escapes with some apes from the > citadel of mutants....and tells the ficticious story of Taylor and Brent dying to > the council. The citadel burns up as the rocket takes off killing most of the > soldier apes, and keeps going into space...its old and it malfunctions! > > The boys(though injured) and a pregnant Nova escape throught the > tunnels...and only Zaius sees them. Taylor sees Zaius riding off with a few surviving > soldier gorillas. > > My sequel tells the oddysey through the POTA down the eastern shoreline > toward a base...maybe Cape Kennedy. Zaius contacts another Ape General...and sends > him on a secret mission through The Forbidden Zone to find and eliminate the > talking humans. Remember I'm thinking of the Science Council as a sort of > Taliban that know the secret of how the ape society came about...and they dont want > anything getting out. > > I'm also working(slowly) on a prequel called "Mission To Orion" about the > astrosauts and events leading up to the mission. A period piece that > incorporates alot of the leading events during that historical period. I will post > excerpts here soon. > > Mario Medina > > > Huntleigh Latin America > 2602 NW 97 Avenue > Miami, FL 33172 > Tel: 305-463-0526 > Fax: 305-463-0216 > E-mail: mariohnelatin@... or hnelatin@... > _http://www.huntleigh-healthcare.com/_ ( http://www.huntleigh- healthcare.com/) > > > > > **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. > http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise? NCID=aolcmp00300000002489 >

On 1/12/08, PofTAfan@... <PofTAfan@...> wrote:

They also showed scenes from the 1968 Planet of the Apes movie.
 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff <RedSpy13@...>
To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 7:30 pm
Subject: [pota] Re: Eeww...Don't know if this is a hoax or not. Can anybody verify?

It's true, Jessica. There was an hour-long special on educational
television about it earlier this week. They had animation of
the "soldiers" marching, and it looked like the gorillas from the Tim
Burton movie.

Jeff (RedSpy)

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "jessica rotich" <jessicarotich@...>
wrote:
>
> *By Chris Stephen and Allan Hall*
>
> The Soviet dictator Josef Stalin ordered the creation of Planet of
the
> Apes-style warriors by crossing humans with apes, according to
recently
> uncovered secret documents.
> Moscow archives show that in the mid-1920s Russia's top animal
breeding
> scientist, Ilya Ivanov, was ordered to turn his skills from horse
and animal
> work to the quest for a super-warrior. According to Moscow
newspapers,
> Stalin told the scientist: "I want a new invincible human being,
insensitive
> to pain, resistant and indifferent about the quality of food they
eat."
>
> In 1926 the Politburo in Moscow passed the request to the Academy
of Science
> with the order to build a "living war machine". The order came at a
time
> when the Soviet Union was embarked on a crusade to turn the world
upside
> down, with social engineering seen as a partner to
industrialisation: new
> cities, architecture, and a new egalitarian society were being
> created.TheSoviet authorities were struggling to rebuild the Red
Army
> after bruising
> wars.
>
> And there was intense pressure to find a new labour force,
particularly one
> that would not complain, with Russia about to embark on its first
Five-Year
> Plan for fast-track industrialisation.
>
> Mr Ivanov was highly regarded. He had established his reputation
under the
> Tsar when in 1901 he established the world's first centre for the
artificial
> insemination of racehorses.
>
> Mr Ivanov's ideas were music to the ears of Soviet planners and in
1926 he
> was dispatched to West Africa with $200,000 to conduct his first
experiment
> in impregnating chimpanzees.
>
> Meanwhile, a centre for the experiments was set up in Georgia -
Stalin's
> birthplace - for the apes to be raised.
>
> Mr Ivanov's experiments, unsurprisingly from what we now know, were
a total
> failure. He returned to the Soviet Union, only to see experiments
in Georgia
> to use monkey sperm in human volunteers similarly fail.
>
> A final attempt to persuade a Cuban heiress to lend some of her
monkeys for
> further experiments reached American ears, with the New York Times
reporting
> on the story, and she dropped the idea amid the uproar.
>
> Mr Ivanov was now in disgrace. His were not the only experiments
going
> wrong: the plan to collectivise farms ended in the 1932 famine in
which at
> least four million died.
>
> For his expensive failure, he was sentenced to five years' jail,
which was
> later commuted to five years' exile in the Central Asian republic of
> Kazakhstan in 1931. A year later he died, reportedly after falling
sick
> while standing on a freezing railway platform.
>
>
>
> Jessica.
>
> http://monkeyboxer.com/2008/01/11/stalins-simian-super-soldiers/
>

 

---

More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail!
 

Really?

You didn't find his character a bit, shall we say . . . P Whipped?

 

 

Of course not!  He's very tender, which is something that guys need to be more.

 

Jessica.

 

On 1/12/08, zasco1957 <Zasco1957@aol. com> wrote:

It's possible that, after Cornelius and Zira's trial for heresy, Dr. Zaius pled for clemency...and then he showed them scrolls that told about man and his downfall.   As for BATTLE, do you think that it may have been due to the radiation?   Zach      -------Original Message----- --   From: Jeff Date: 01/11/08 09:37:32 To: pota@yahoogroups. com Subject: [pota] Re: Battle for the Planet of the Apes   I find it interesting that in "Planet", Cornelius and Zira know nothing about man's past superiority. Then, in "Escape", they both seems to know the entire history of man's superiority and downfall. They make it sound as if it was taught to all ape school children. This makes Dr. Zaius' "keeper of the faith" secrets a bit unnecessary. A bit of a continuity error, but just an observation on my part. Another question I have is for "Battle". If Caesar is the same ape from "Conquest", how did all apes acquire speech and a culture in just a few years? Remember, Virgil seems to be a genius who knows "everything about everything". How did he gain all this knowledge in such a short span of years? I first thought that Caesar was a descendant of the original Caesar (Milo), but then MacDonald states that his brother was the man who aided Caesar in "Conquest", so this has to be only a few years in the future. Quite a big evolutionary leap for such a short period. Jeff (RedSpy) --- In pota@yahoogroups. com, mariohnelatin@ ... wrote: > > Beneath does go down a bit...very true. But Escape seals the fate of the boys > and Nova. > > I would rather change it so that Zaius escapes with some apes from the > citadel of mutants....and tells the ficticious story of Taylor and Brent dying to > the council. The citadel burns up as the rocket takes off killing most of the > soldier apes, and keeps going into space...its old and it malfunctions! > > The boys(though injured) and a pregnant Nova escape throught the > tunnels...and only Zaius sees them. Taylor sees Zaius riding off with a few surviving > soldier gorillas. > > My sequel tells the oddysey through the POTA down the eastern shoreline > toward a base...maybe Cape Kennedy. Zaius contacts another Ape General...and sends > him on a secret mission through The Forbidden Zone to find and eliminate the > talking humans. Remember I'm thinking of the Science Council as a sort of > Taliban that know the secret of how the ape society came about...and they dont want > anything getting out. > > I'm also working(slowly) on a prequel called "Mission To Orion" about the > astrosauts and events leading up to the mission. A period piece that > incorporates alot of the leading events during that historical period. I will post > excerpts here soon. > > Mario Medina > > > Huntleigh Latin America > 2602 NW 97 Avenue > Miami, FL 33172 > Tel: 305-463-0526 > Fax: 305-463-0216 > E-mail: mariohnelatin@ ... or hnelatin@... > _http://www.huntleig h-healthcare. com/_ ( http://www.huntleig h- healthcare.com/) > > > > > ************ **Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. > http://body. aol.com/fitness/ winter-exercise? NCID=aolcmp00300000 002489 >

---

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On 1/12/08, stenosaurus@... <stenosaurus@...> wrote:

Right now the human form is the same as Roman times, but with genetic engineering and the like progressing so fast we might have computers installed in our heads and glow in the dark in 50 years!

Bruce

-----Original Message-----
From: Haristas@...
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 9:19 pm
Subject: [pota] Re: In regards to the tear....

"I would be afraid that if the people of, say, 2307 would put folks
like us in a cage if they encountered us, seeing that so-called
civilization is advancing so fast.

Bruce "

You know, I don't see civilization as advancing that fast, in fact I
think we're still not much better than the Romans. Look at what kind
of attitudes so many still have toward people that don't live or think
like them, or what so many find entertaining.

Our science & technology is advancing, but strip us of everything, and
we're right back in the jungle. No, the beast in man is still very
much alive, but technology offers the hope that the beast can be tamed,
or at least pacified, but only in this respect: that advanced
technology can cheaply provide everyone will a decent standard of
living with plenty of distractions, an equal standard of living for
everyone, but no one too rich or too poor. I hope we're (and I mean
humanity, because I sure won't see it) there in another two centuries.

-- Rory

More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -

<.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 6:19 PM

Subject: [pota] Re: In regards to the tear....

"I would be afraid that if the people of, say, 2307 would put folks
like us in a cage if they encountered us, seeing that so-called
civilization is advancing so fast.

Bruce "

You know, I don't see civilization as advancing that fast, in fact I
think we're still not much better than the Romans. Look at what kind
of attitudes so many still have toward people that don't live or think
like them, or what so many find entertaining.

Our science & technology is advancing, but strip us of everything, and
we're right back in the jungle. No, the beast in man is still very
much alive, but technology offers the hope that the beast can be tamed,
or at least pacified, but only in this respect: that advanced
technology can cheaply provide everyone will a decent standard of
living with plenty of distractions, an equal standard of living for
everyone, but no one too rich or too poor. I hope we're (and I mean
humanity, because I sure won't see it) there in another two centuries.

-- Rory

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail. aol.com

On 1/12/08, Jeff K. <veetus@...> wrote:

  That's what I'm saying when I say we're screwed. I don't know if we'll extinguish ourselves (probably) but the "peace" thing Caesar wanted, fuggetaboutit. "Star Trek", ha. You can take the "Apes" philosophy to the bank. Jeff

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, January 11, 2008 6:19 PM

Subject: [pota] Re: In regards to the tear....

 

"I would be afraid that if the people of, say, 2307 would put folks
like us in a cage if they encountered us, seeing that so-called
civilization is advancing so fast.

Bruce "

You know, I don't see civilization as advancing that fast, in fact I
think we're still not much better than the Romans. Look at what kind
of attitudes so many still have toward people that don't live or think
like them, or what so many find entertaining.

Our science & technology is advancing, but strip us of everything, and
we're right back in the jungle. No, the beast in man is still very
much alive, but technology offers the hope that the beast can be tamed,
or at least pacified, but only in this respect: that advanced
technology can cheaply provide everyone will a decent standard of
living with plenty of distractions, an equal standard of living for
everyone, but no one too rich or too poor. I hope we're (and I mean
humanity, because I sure won't see it) there in another two centuries.

-- Rory

More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -

<.html

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@... wrote:
>
> "That's what I'm saying when I say we're screwed. I don't know if
we'll
> extinguish ourselves (probably) but the "peace" thing Caesar
wanted,
> fuggetaboutit. "Star Trek", ha. You can take the "Apes" philosophy
to
> the bank. Jeff "
>
> Everyone kind of thinks that "Star Trek" shows us a utopian
future, and
> that's what it says earth is like, albeit only after WWIII, but
what do
> they occupy themselves with in the 23rd Century and beyond?
Policing
> the galaxy, constantly having to get into fights with others and
worse.
> So much for utopia.
>
> -- Rory
>
>
>
>
_________

----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff <RedSpy13@...>
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 17:14:43 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [pota] Yet Again Even More Videos

Greetings again, everyone. I have two more videos to add to our
collection. They are:

Planet of the Apes - The Musical (the Simpsons musical played to live-
action film clips from the 1968 film)

The List - Top 5 Monkeys in Movies (can you guess which number is Dr.
Zaius?)

Drop me an e-mail if you would like to have them. (RedSpy13@...)

Jeff (RedSpy)

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, PofTAfan@... wrote:
>
>
> I remember that TBS used to have a half-hour show that came on
right after WCW that had apes running a television station.? I forgot
the name of the program,
> but they did spoof of popular movies and television shows.? That
clip brought back some memories.
>
> Thanks
> Kevin
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff <RedSpy13@...>
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sat, 12 Jan 2008 3:42 pm
> Subject: [pota] Another Video
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Greetings, everyone. This one is great! Enjoy!
>
>
>
> Jeff (RedSpy)
>
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRuC1AliLso
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff" <RedSpy13@...> wrote:
>
> Greetings again, everyone. I have just added three new
> cartoons/animations to the PotA Cartoon folder in the Files Section.
> Look for:
>
> Bad Casting! Planet of the Apes
> Dead Critics' Society - Planet of the Apes
> That's a Fact, Jack! Planet of the Apes
>
> http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/PotA%20Cartoons/
>
> Get them while you can, and I hope you enjoy them! As always, if you
> have trouble with the zipped files, drop me an e-mail
> (RedSpy13@...) and I'll be more than happy to send them to you
> unzipped. Simian Smiles to everyone!
>
> Jeff (RedSpy)
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Shane Miller <masonverger12@...> wrote:
>
> I agree, I think that he is a good father as well. Very
interesting that he forbids his son to play at war or use make
believe guns. He also stresses education.
>
> jessica rotich <jessicarotich@...> wrote: Really?
> You didn't find his character a bit, shall we say . . . P
Whipped?
>
>
> Of course not! He's very tender, which is something that guys
need to be more.
>
> Jessica.
>
>
> On 1/12/08, zasco1957 <Zasco1957@...>
wrote: It's possible that, after Cornelius and
Zira's trial for heresy, Dr. Zaius pled for clemency...and then he
showed them scrolls that told about man and his downfall.
>
> As for BATTLE, do you think that it may have been due to the
radiation?
>
> Zach
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: Jeff
> Date: 01/11/08 09:37:32
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [pota] Re: Battle for the Planet of the Apes
>
>
> I find it interesting that in "Planet", Cornelius and Zira
know
> nothing about man's past superiority. Then, in "Escape", they both
> seems to know the entire history of man's superiority and
downfall.
> They make it sound as if it was taught to all ape school children.
> This makes Dr. Zaius' "keeper of the faith" secrets a bit
> unnecessary. A bit of a continuity error, but just an observation
on
> my part.
>
> Another question I have is for "Battle". If Caesar is the same ape
> from "Conquest", how did all apes acquire speech and a culture in
> just a few years? Remember, Virgil seems to be a genius who
> knows "everything about everything". How did he gain all this
> knowledge in such a short span of years? I first thought that
Caesar
> was a descendant of the original Caesar (Milo), but then MacDonald
> states that his brother was the man who aided Caesar
in "Conquest",
> so this has to be only a few years in the future. Quite a big
> evolutionary leap for such a short period.
>
> Jeff (RedSpy)
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, mariohnelatin@ wrote:
> >
> > Beneath does go down a bit...very true. But Escape seals the
fate
> of the boys
> > and Nova.
> >
> > I would rather change it so that Zaius escapes with some apes
from
> the
> > citadel of mutants....and tells the ficticious story of Taylor
and
> Brent dying to
> > the council. The citadel burns up as the rocket takes off
killing
> most of the
> > soldier apes, and keeps going into space...its old and it
> malfunctions!
> >
> > The boys(though injured) and a pregnant Nova escape throught the
> > tunnels...and only Zaius sees them. Taylor sees Zaius riding off
> with a few surviving
> > soldier gorillas.
> >
> > My sequel tells the oddysey through the POTA down the eastern
> shoreline
> > toward a base...maybe Cape Kennedy. Zaius contacts another Ape
> General...and sends
> > him on a secret mission through The Forbidden Zone to find and
> eliminate the
> > talking humans. Remember I'm thinking of the Science Council as
a
> sort of
> > Taliban that know the secret of how the ape society came
> about...and they dont want
> > anything getting out.
> >
> > I'm also working(slowly) on a prequel called "Mission To Orion"
> about the
> > astrosauts and events leading up to the mission. A period piece
> that
> > incorporates alot of the leading events during that historical
> period. I will post
> > excerpts here soon.
> >
> > Mario Medina
> >
> >
> > Huntleigh Latin America
> > 2602 NW 97 Avenue
> > Miami, FL 33172
> > Tel: 305-463-0526
> > Fax: 305-463-0216
> > E-mail: mariohnelatin@ or hnelatin@
> > _http://www.huntleigh-healthcare.com/_ ( http://www.huntleigh-
> healthcare.com/)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in
> shape.
> > http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?
> NCID=aolcmp00300000002489
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!
Mobile. Try it now.
>

>
>
> This is FASCINATING. Never heard about this.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff <RedSpy13@...>
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Fri, 11 Jan 2008 7:30 pm
> Subject: [pota] Re: Eeww...Don't know if this is a hoax or not. Can anybody verify?
>
> Tonight at 11:00 pm The History Channel will rebroadcast this program as part of the

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> It's true, Jessica. There was an hour-long special on educational
>
> television about it earlier this week. They had animation of
>
> the "soldiers" marching, and it looked like the gorillas from the Tim
>
> Burton movie.
>
>
>
> Jeff (RedSpy)
>
>
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "jessica rotich" <jessicarotich@>
>
> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > *By Chris Stephen and Allan Hall*
>
> >
>
> > The Soviet dictator Josef Stalin ordered the creation of Planet of
>
> the
>
> > Apes-style warriors by crossing humans with apes, according to
>
> recently
>
> > uncovered secret documents.
>
> > Moscow archives show that in the mid-1920s Russia's top animal
>
> breeding
>
> > scientist, Ilya Ivanov, was ordered to turn his skills from horse
>
> and animal
>
> > work to the quest for a super-warrior. According to Moscow
>
> newspapers,
>
> > Stalin told the scientist: "I want a new invincible human being,
>
> insensitive
>
> > to pain, resistant and indifferent about the quality of food they
>
> eat."
>
> >
>
> > In 1926 the Politburo in Moscow passed the request to the Academy
>
> of Science
>
> > with the order to build a "living war machine". The order came at a
>
> time
>
> > when the Soviet Union was embarked on a crusade to turn the world
>
> upside
>
> > down, with social engineering seen as a partner to
>
> industrialisation: new
>
> > cities, architecture, and a new egalitarian society were being
>
> > created.TheSoviet authorities were struggling to rebuild the Red
>
> Army
>
> > after bruising
>
> > wars.
>
> >
>
> > And there was intense pressure to find a new labour force,
>
> particularly one
>
> > that would not complain, with Russia about to embark on its first
>
> Five-Year
>
> > Plan for fast-track industrialisation.
>
> >
>
> > Mr Ivanov was highly regarded. He had established his reputation
>
> under the
>
> > Tsar when in 1901 he established the world's first centre for the
>
> artificial
>
> > insemination of racehorses.
>
> >
>
> > Mr Ivanov's ideas were music to the ears of Soviet planners and in
>
> 1926 he
>
> > was dispatched to West Africa with $200,000 to conduct his first
>
> experiment
>
> > in impregnating chimpanzees.
>
> >
>
> > Meanwhile, a centre for the experiments was set up in Georgia -
>
> Stalin's
>
> > birthplace - for the apes to be raised.
>
> >
>
> > Mr Ivanov's experiments, unsurprisingly from what we now know, were
>
> a total
>
> > failure. He returned to the Soviet Union, only to see experiments
>
> in Georgia
>
> > to use monkey sperm in human volunteers similarly fail.
>
> >
>
> > A final attempt to persuade a Cuban heiress to lend some of her
>
> monkeys for
>
> > further experiments reached American ears, with the New York Times
>
> reporting
>
> > on the story, and she dropped the idea amid the uproar.
>
> >
>
> > Mr Ivanov was now in disgrace. His were not the only experiments
>
> going
>
> > wrong: the plan to collectivise farms ended in the 1932 famine in
>
> which at
>
> > least four million died.
>
> >
>
> > For his expensive failure, he was sentenced to five years' jail,
>
> which was
>
> > later commuted to five years' exile in the Central Asian republic of
>
> > Kazakhstan in 1931. A year later he died, reportedly after falling
>
> sick
>
> > while standing on a freezing railway platform.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Jessica.
>
> >
>
> > http://monkeyboxer.com/2008/01/11/stalins-simian-super-soldiers/
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@... wrote:

>
> Watch Idiocracy.
> That's more like what The Future will be.
> That's what you should fight against.
> Jocks and Bureaucrats and Morons.
> Or is that redundant?
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 5:34 PM

Subject: [pota] (OT) The Terminator TV show.

This show is so awful. How did Cameron ever make this silly stuff
work? How many times are we supposed to believe that a
super-sophisticated robot can't think of any better way to kill a kid
than take pot shots at him -- and then keep missing! And I'm not even
going to get into the psychology of having a hot mom AND a cute teenage
robot girl rescuer in this teenage boy fantasy adventure absurdity.
It's just ridiculous, lame, tired old crap, but I guess that's why it's
on Fox. Oh, for the good old days of X-Files' first couple of seasons.

-- Rory

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! -
http://webmail. aol.com

> On 1/11/08, pbar100 <paul@...> wrote:
> >
> > I don't know if this has been posted or not, but just in case it
> > hasn't -
> > There is a very good Planet Of The Apes feature (focusing on the TV
> > series) in a current issue of SFX magazine. It's a Retro special of
> > the magazine, featuring classic sci fi TV shows, it has Hulk, the
> > Bionics, Knight Rider in it etc.
> > Worth buying for the Apes feature alone.
> > A must have if you're into retro sci fi TV!
> >
> > I bought mine yesterday at WH wmith (here in the UK)so it's still
> > available.
> >
> >
> >
>

>Posted by: "Chris" peacekeeper_b@... peacekeeper_b
>1) In Beneath Doctor Zaeus places Cornelius and Zira in charge of
>his post when he rides to war with Urkko. This implies to me that
>after what they learned in their time with Taylor added to working
>alongside Zaeus the week or two between Taylor leaving and Brent
>arriving, Zaeus shared with them some of this knowledge. Im sure Dr.
>Milo may have known some of this stuff as well.

>2) At the end of Conquest Lisa can say no fairly easy. Plus we know
>that according to Zira and Cornelius in Escape Aldo was originally
>the first ape to say no. Aldo is in Conquest as well. Meaning the
>apes of that timeline's 1991 were at the point of learning to speak
>on their own anyway. In Battle Mandeimos, the guard of the Ape City
>Armory says he has been guarding it for 27 years, thats a long time
>if you ask me. Long enough for intelligent apes to learn to speak.

>3) My question is this. Is Central City the name for New York in
>1991? I take it that Conquest takes place in the alternate 1991 of
>New York as that is where the Alpha Omega bomb is in Battle while it
>is quite obvious that New York is where POTA and Beneath take place.

Rich,

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you here. It has been a wide misconception that Conquest took place on the West Coast thanks to Marvel's timeline.

In the film itself there is nothing established to determine the location. But when Battle is taken into account, especially the extended version, it is obvious that both films took place on the East Coast.

Additionally in the book, "The Planet of the Apes Chronicles", Dayton Ward constructed a timeline that was based on Paul Dehn's original timeline for the series and it places both Conquest & Battle on the East Coast, not the West.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Rich Handley <handleyr@...> wrote:
>
> As for Conquest, that is widely accepted as taking place
> in California as well.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
just suppose someone made a TV show out of "Apes". Wouldn't the concept
seem just as silly? Oh, wait. Don't answer that.
>
>

> Rich,
> I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you here.

> It has been a wide misconception that Conquest took
> place on the West Coast thanks to Marvel's timeline.

> In the film itself there is nothing established to determine the
> location. But when Battle is taken into account, especially the
> extended version, it is obvious that both films took place on
> the East Coast.

> Additionally in the book, "The Planet of the Apes Chronicles",
> Dayton Ward constructed a timeline that was based on Paul
> Dehn's original timeline for the series and it places both
> Conquest & Battle on the East Coast, not the West.

----- Original Message -----

From: rassmguy

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 12:04 PM

Subject: [pota] Re: Digest Number 3884

--- In pota@yahoogroups. com, "James" <JamesA1102@ ...> wrote:
> Rich,
> I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you here.

And I knew you would, too. <grin>

> It has been a wide misconception that Conquest took
> place on the West Coast thanks to Marvel's timeline.

Absolutely true. What this comes down to, I guess, is one's personal
picture of what constitutes POTA canon. I am in the "try to make it
all fit" camp, so for me, it's California. I know from past
discussions, though, that you're not in that camp--and from that
perspective, the New York setting makes sense.

> In the film itself there is nothing established to determine the
> location. But when Battle is taken into account, especially the
> extended version, it is obvious that both films took place on
> the East Coast.

I agree--that may be what the screenwriters may have intended.

> Additionally in the book, "The Planet of the Apes Chronicles",
> Dayton Ward constructed a timeline that was based on Paul
> Dehn's original timeline for the series and it places both
> Conquest & Battle on the East Coast, not the West.

I admittedly haven't read that book--which is kind of funny,
actually, as I've known Dayton since long before either of us were
published. I'll have to pick up a copy.

Here are links to more detailed pictures to apes Mego showroom samples and prototypes:
 
4 carded figures
 
http://www.megomuseum.com/megolibrary/1974Showroom/zalkin/images/IMG_6179.jpg
 
Prototype Zira on mauve card with later showroom sample
 
http://www.megomuseum.com/megolibrary/1974Showroom/zalkin/images/IMG_6188.jpg
 
The back of both cards, the prototype one is blank
 
http://www.megomuseum.com/megolibrary/1974Showroom/zalkin/images/IMG_6189.jpg
 
Detail on prototype Zira's hand painted face
 
http://www.megomuseum.com/megolibrary/1974Showroom/zalkin/images/IMG_6190.jpg
 
Detail on the lower half of the prototype card showing incorrect copyright date. (should be 1967 when the movie was made, not 1973 when the figure was made)
 
http://www.megomuseum.com/megolibrary/1974Showroom/zalkin/images/IMG_6192.jpg
 
Detail on the bubble showing how it is crudely attached and some of it sticks out the bottom
 
http://www.megomuseum.com/megolibrary/1974Showroom/zalkin/images/IMG_6194.jpg
 
Close up of Zira production card sample showing correct copyright date.
 
http://www.megomuseum.com/megolibrary/1974Showroom/zalkin/images/IMG_6196.jpg
 
Mego Museum forum thread on these finds:
 
http://megomuseum.com/community/showthread.php?p=81476#post81476
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

---

Put your friends on the big screen with Windows Vista® + Windows Live™. Start now!

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "rassmguy" <handleyr@...> wrote:
>
>
> Absolutely true. What this comes down to, I guess, is one's personal
> picture of what constitutes POTA canon. I am in the "try to make it
> all fit" camp, so for me, it's California. I know from past
> discussions, though, that you're not in that camp--and from that
> perspective, the New York setting makes sense.
>
>

I think you can still "try to make it all fit" while using the East Coast.

>
> I agree--that may be what the screenwriters may have intended.
>

Well shouldn't what the screenwriters intended be the starting point and then include what others have added over the years. Not the other way around.

But the novelization for Conquest was not written when the movie was made. It was written almost 2 years later so it really isn't an accurate source.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> I think Marvel got it from the "Conquest" novelization. I don't remember if it says San Francisco but it suggests it; Fisherman's Wharf, etc. And with the TV show set in the West I think that's why they felt they had to move it there.
> Jeff
>

> I think you can still "try to make it all fit" while using the East
> Coast.

> Well shouldn't what the screenwriters intended be the starting point
> and then include what others have added over the years. Not the
> other way around.

> But the novelization for Conquest was not written when the movie was
> made. It was written almost 2 years later so it really isn't an
> accurate source.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "rassmguy" <handleyr@...> wrote:

>
>
> Well, the thing is, Revolution takes place in San Diego, pretty much
> cementing it as the West Coast. I can't think of a way to make
> Revolution work if you set the last two films in New York--and, in my
> opinion, Revolution is just too good to disregard. (I consider it a
> better story than the fifth film, in fact.)
>

But you don't have to disregard Revolution. The location is not intrinsic to the plot in anyway, other than it is the same city seen in Conquest. You could place it in Florida or Chicago or the East Coast and it is still the same story.

Plus during the online chat we had here in the group with Ty Templeton & Joe O'Brian they both admitted they had not seen Extended Version of Battle before writing Revolution and that they blew it by placing it on the West Coast.

>
> Yes, and no. I'm less concerned with what Dehn and other writers
> intended and more with how it all fits together. After all, these
> are the same writers who couldn't get the years straight from one
> film to the next; who had a rescue mission sent out for a ship that
> was never missing in he first place since it did exactly what it was
> expected to do--experience time dilation and vanish into the future;
> who had Milo manage to get Taylor's ship out of the water and fly it;
> who had present-day apes become sentient and able to speak and even
> philosophize in a single generation; and so forth.

But the films are the foundation that everything else is built, they shouldn't be disrepected. Nor should they be given less weight than what came after. Many became POTA fans because of the comics or TV show or something else. But the comics wouldn't have existed if not for the films. To steal a quote from George Lucas, "The films are canon, everything else is hearsay".

>
> They themselves didn't seem to have a clear handle on what was going
> on, so I'm happy to accept other writers' interpretations of events.
> Marvel worked out the NY/Calif. discrepency with the underground tube
> system (which, I might add, actually ties in well with the depiction
> of the U.S. government as seen in both the Conquest novel and
> Revolution), while Revolution itself made the speaking apes work--and
> since that removes several plotholes, then I give it more credence
> than what Dehn may have intended. 'Cause the truth is, regardless of
> what he intended, he did a pretty haphazard job of maintaining
> consistency and sense.

But that is mainly because of the haphazard way the films were produced. When they produced each film they thought is was the last. Even the Star Wars films (which were all allegedly planned out at the beginning) have discrepencies. But focusing on them is failing to see the forest for the trees.

Many people who deny evolution point to minor discrepencies that evolution doesn't explain. They use them as proof of creationism because that explains everything in a neat little package. But isn't better to get it right even if it is not totally perfect than getting wrong just because there are no loose ends.

>
> Keep in mind, when I say this, that I absolutely respect your right
> to disagree. Vive la diference.
>
> Even if I'm right.
>
> (Heh heh--just kidding!)
>

Right back at you buddy!

The point is the writers of the novelizations of Conquest and Escape as well did not work in concert with the screenwriters. As a result they gave their own interpetations and got a lot of things wrong. In the novelization of Escape the capsule is brought aboard an aircraft carrier, not beached as seen in the film. Thus, it is not accurate and can't be relied upon as a source.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "rassmguy" <handleyr@...> wrote:
>
>
> Would you mind elaborating on that point? I'm not sure I follow you--
> why does when it was written affect how accurate it is? I could write
> a novelization of the first film today that would be dead-on accurate
> as long as I made a point of being accurate.
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "rassmguy" <handleyr@...> wrote:
>
> Well, the thing is, Revolution takes place in San Diego, pretty much
> cementing it as the West Coast.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@... wrote:
>
> "Even if set in California, why would the Governor's office be in
San
> Diego?
>
> Sounds like a new poll to me... NY vs. CA"
>
> In BATTLE they go to the "Archives section" to view the tapes of
the
> "Presidential Commission... etc., etc." Now, wouldn't such things
be
> kept in a "National Archive" and wouldn't something of a National
or
> Presidential nature be kept near or in Washington, DC? Therefore,
I've
> always figured CONQUEST was someplace near Washington. Also,
remember
> "Provinces" and no longer "States" are mentioned in CONQUEST, so
> there's been some kind of big change to the government. Anyway,
New
> York has nothing to do with CONQUEST or BATTLE, it's just a place
that
> used to be near the very end of PLANET and in the second half of
> BENEATH.
>
> -- Rory
>
>
>
__________

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@... wrote:
>
> "Even if set in California, why would the Governor's office be in
San
> Diego?
>
> Sounds like a new poll to me... NY vs. CA"
>
> In BATTLE they go to the "Archives section" to view the tapes of
the
> "Presidential Commission... etc., etc." Now, wouldn't such things
be
> kept in a "National Archive" and wouldn't something of a National
or
> Presidential nature be kept near or in Washington, DC? Therefore,
I've
> always figured CONQUEST was someplace near Washington. Also,
remember
> "Provinces" and no longer "States" are mentioned in CONQUEST, so
> there's been some kind of big change to the government. Anyway,
New
> York has nothing to do with CONQUEST or BATTLE, it's just a place
that
> used to be near the very end of PLANET and in the second half of
> BENEATH.
>
> -- Rory
>
>
>