>
> This is a theory that occurred to me as I was working on my POTA
> fanfic, and I thought I'd put it out there and see weather my fellow
> Apes fans agree with me. My apologies if someone else thought of

> before me, and forgive me if I'm pointing out the blatantly obvious.
>
> Most people I've talked to agree that the ending of Battle for the
> Planet of the Apes is proof that the future had been changed, and
> instead of the Ape scoiety of the first two films developing a joint
> Ape/Human scoiety develops instead. I've always assumed this as

> but maybe the future wasn't really changer after all. My theory
> focuses on the Lawgiver.
>
> My theory is this, the Lawgiver we see at the beginning and end of
> Battle isn't the Lawgiver mentioned in the first two movies, the one
> who wrote the sacred scrolls. Maybe it's just me, but I've always

> assumed that the Lawgiver from Battle is the one mentioned in the
> original movie, but now I don't think that is the case.
>
> Try to follow my logic. The ending scene in Battle with the Lawgiver
> teaching his class of Ape and Human children takes place 600 years
> after Caesar's death, which means that there is gap of approximately
> one thousand four hundred years between the end of Battle and the
> start of the original film. In the original Dr. Zaius tells Taylor
> that the Sacred Scrolls were written approximately one thousand two
> hundred years ago, two hundred years after Battle's ending scene.

> would mean that Battle's Lawgiver couldn't be the THE Lawgiver from
> the original movie. That would also mean that there is ample time

> the joint ape/human scoiety to fail, Humans to devolve into animals,
> and the Ape scoiety seen in the first two movies to develop.
>
> Again, forgive me if I;m pointing out something that everyone else

> already figured out a long time ago, but there it is. So what do you
> all think?
>

Yes Virginia there is a new entry of CORNELIUS' JOURNAL. 

To read the JOURNAL entry either click the banner on the Yahoo home page or use this link: http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/CJ.htm

Also, the Group's Files Section is

Have a great weekend everybody!

Visit all the Group's special features including:

• The Group Website  - Original POTA One Sheets & Lobby Cards, Trailers & Rare Videos, Trading Cards and much, much more.
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• The Database Section  - POTA info ranging from Characters to Comics.
• The Photos Section  - POTA pics contributed by members.

>
>
> Peter Jackson's POTA would have been something to see. He was going

>
> He is obviously an apes fan as he and a friend made an apes movie

> In the Lord of the Rings extras you see a full (Apemania?) costumed

>
> John
>
>
>
> To: pota@...: josievan@...: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 19:15:18 -0700Subject:

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Tom,
>
> IMHO I don't think they will make another one, but we can all keep

>
> Joanne
> --- On Thu, 7/24/08, Tom <blackaciddevil01@...> wrote:
> From: Tom <blackaciddevil01@...>Subject: [pota] Another Planet of

>
>
> I'd like your opinion,...do any of you think we'll ever see another

>

I'd like your opinion,...do any of you think we'll ever see another
Planet of the Apes movie after the one Tim Burton did?? I'd love to see
another one done myself. I have to be honest, though, I'd love to see
another director's take on the series though. Tim did a good job on the
POTA remake but I feel it could've been alot better. I have it in my
collection along with all my other POTA DVDs and series.

I watched some of it on the FX channel the other night. This time I was struck (again) by just how awful the makeup was.

Let that movie be forgotten. Yeah, I'd be interested in a new APES movie, but not anything related to Burton's fiasco.

-- Rory

--

---

The Famous, the Infamous, the Lame - in your browser. Get the TMZ Toolbar Now!

If he loves the series enough, we'll definitely
see something at some point.

No he won't. Fox won't let him. Even James Cameron couldn't talk the idiots at Fox to do something bright with APES.

-- Rory

---

The Famous, the Infamous, the Lame - in your browser. Get the TMZ Toolbar Now!

The producer at Fox who Jackson and his wife Fran went to see with Roddy McDowall didn't seem to know who Roddy was or know about the apes franchise.

Beware in the modern era the beast "producer"

For they're often just snotty-nosed recent grads

from some Ivy League whatnot, who neither know

nor care about the art of cinema or its history

Shun them, for it's only money they desire.

-----Original Message-----
From: John Brandon Kirtley <johnbkirtley@...>
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 11:58 am
Subject: RE: [pota] Another Planet of the Apes movie??........

Dear Zach,

I love Peter Jacksons work and I think he would have done a great job with the apes him being a fan.
There's a great book called: Peter Jackson. A film Makers Journey. by Peter Sibley that gives the whole tale in Jacksons own words. The producer at Fox who Jackson and his wife Fran went to see with Roddy McDowall didn't seem to know who Roddy was or know about the apes franchise.

It would have been a great film and Jackson would have opened it out whilst staying faithfull to the original designs and story line.

Nice to talk to you Zach.

JBK

---

To: pota@yahoogroups. com
From: Zasco1957@aol. com
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 05:26:34 -0500
Subject: RE: [pota] Another Planet of the Apes movie??..... ...

John, that would have been wonderful. Burton's movie stank big time. I think I'd mentioned this before, but when I first heard of the 2001 APES I thought that it would've been just that--it would've continued the story after BATTLE. Instead, what we got was an awful 're-imagining' --there were no references to the original characters (Zira, Cornelius, Taylor, Armando, Caesar, etc.) and personally, as far as I'm concerned, the 2001 version was a confusing, listless movie. It deserves being in the cut-out bin. Zach -------Original Message----- -- From: John Brandon Kirtley Date: 07/25/08 05:14:41 To: pota@yahoogroups. com Subject: RE: [pota] Another Planet of the Apes movie??..... ... Peter Jackson's POTA would have been something to see. He was going to take it from where Battle left off. The apes movie he had planned also had Roddy on board as an ape artist come old wise ape. It would tell the story of how the apes split into fractions and how the human population were exterminated and those left, living like animals in the deserts and forests. He was going to use the original designs taken a step further. This ties in with the other posts on the time line etc. He is obviously an apes fan as he and a friend made an apes movie with costumes and home made prosthetics when they were kids. In the Lord of the Rings extras you see a full (Apemania?) costumed gorilla manaquin sitting in his office. It's a sad tale that the (then) managment of Fox didnt want to do it and were very disrespectful to Roddy in the meetings . John To: pota@yahoogroups. com From: josievan@yahoo. com Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 19:15:18 -0700 Subject: Re: [pota] Another Planet of the Apes movie??..... ... Tom, IMHO I don't think they will make another one, but we can all keep our fingers crossed and hope they do. Joanne --- On Thu, 7/24/08, Tom <blackaciddevil01@ yahoo.com> wrote: From: Tom <blackaciddevil01@ yahoo.com> Subject: [pota] Another Planet of the Apes movie??..... ... To: pota@yahoogroups. com Date: Thursday, July 24, 2008, 4:58 PM I'd like your opinion,...do any of you think we'll ever see another Planet of the Apes movie after the one Tim Burton did?? I'd love to see another one done myself. I have to be honest, though, I'd love to see another director's take on the series though. Tim did a good job on the POTA remake but I feel it could've been alot better. I have it in my collection along with all my other POTA DVDs and series.

---

The Famous, the Infamous, the Lame - in your browser. Get the TMZ Toolbar Now!

On 7/15/08, jessica rotich <jessicarotich@...> wrote:

Thank you to all who voted, and to those who have not, please try before the deadline, July 26.  Every single vote counts!!

 

The Planet of the Apes Commercial for Sideshow (Video #15) is currently in the lead at 62 votes.   Hurray!! 

 

Currently in second place is Video #7  with 31 votes.
 

 

Jessica.
 

On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 4:23 PM, jessica rotich <jessicarotich@...> wrote:

Video #15 is still in the lead by 13 votes.  It's a close race, but the winner is obvious in my eyes.  Ape fans, unite!!

 

Invade!  Invade!  Invade!!

 

Jessica.

 

On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 1:19 PM, jessica rotich <jessicarotich@...> wrote:

I think it still exists.  He can't just throw something like that away.  He's got the ape wagon coming from AngelofMusic2112, and there were stories being developed.  He mentioned filming the Ape City Fire of 2008...don't know if he was kidding...
 

 

Jessica.
 

On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 12:37 PM, drhasslein <drhasslein@...> wrote:

Yeah, and from what I understand, now that the film is finished, he is
throwing it away! (or already did)

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Tim \"apefan\"" <apefan23@...> wrote:
>
> it's very well done...I like the sets! I wish they would sell those!
>
>

 

 

 

On 7/26/08, zasco1957 <Zasco1957@...> wrote:

Nice to meet you, Colleen.  You'll love being here.   Zach      -------Original Message-------   From: Colleen Date: 7/20/2008 7:35:56 AM To: pota@yahoogroups.com Subject: [pota] HELLO.....   HI EVERYONE. I HAVE ALWAYS LOVED POTA, AND WAS REALLY HAPPY TO SEE THE GROUP SITE. MY NAME IS COLLEEN. HOPE TO MEET ALL OF YOU.

The producer at Fox who Jackson and his wife Fran went to see with Roddy McDowall didn't seem to know who Roddy was or know about the apes franchise.

Beware in the modern era the beast "producer"
For they're often just snotty-nosed recent grads

from some Ivy League whatnot, who neither know

nor care about the art of cinema or its history

Shun them, for it's only money they desire.






-----Original Message-----
From: John Brandon Kirtley
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 11:58 am
Subject: RE: [pota] Another Planet of the Apes movie??........































Dear Zach,
 
I love Peter Jacksons work and I think he would have done a great job with the apes him being a fan.
There's a great book called: Peter Jackson. A film Makers Journey. by Peter Sibley that gives the whole tale in Jacksons own words. The producer at Fox who Jackson and his wife Fran went to see with Roddy McDowall didn't seem to know who Roddy was or know about the apes franchise.
 
It would have been a great film and Jackson would have opened it out whilst staying faithfull to the original designs and story line.
 
Nice to talk to you Zach.
 
JBK








To: pota@yahoogroups.com
From: Zasco1957@...
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 2008 05:26:34 -0500
Subject: RE: [pota] Another Planet of the Apes movie??........






















0A

















John, that would have been wonderful.  Burton's movie stank big time.  I think I'd mentioned this before, but when I first heard of the 2001 APES I thought that it would've been just that--it would've continued the story after BATTLE.  Instead, what we got was an awful 're-imagining'--there were no references to the original characters (Zira, Cornelius, Taylor, Armando, Caesar, etc.) and personally, as far as I'm concerned, the 2001 version was a confusing, listless movie.  It deserves being in the cut-out bin.


 


Zach


 




-------Original Message-------


 




From: John Brandon Kirtley


Date: 07/25/08 05:14:41


To: pota@yahoogroups.com


Subject: RE: [pota] Another Planet of the Apes movie??........



 


Peter Jackson's POTA would have been something to see. He was going to take it from where Battle left off. The apes movie he had planned also had Roddy on board as an ape artist come old wise ape. It would tell the story of how the apes split into fractions and how the human population were exterminated and those left, living like animals in the deserts and forests.  He was going to use the original designs taken a step further. This ties in with the other posts on the time line etc.
 
He is obviously an apes fan as he and a friend made an apes movie with costumes and home made prosthetics when they were kids.
In the Lord of the Rings extras you see a full (Apemania?) co
stumed gorilla manaquin sitting in his office.
It's a sad tale that the (then) managment of Fox didnt want to do it and were very disrespectful to Roddy in the meetings.
 
John






To: pota@yahoogroups.com
From: josievan@...
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 19:15:18 -0700
Subject: Re: [pota] Another Planet of the Apes movie??........

















Tom,
 
IMHO I don't think they will make another one, but we can all keep our fingers crossed and hope they do.
 
Joanne




 


--- On Thu, 7/24/08, Tom wrote:


From: Tom
Subject: [pota] Another Planet of the Apes movie??........
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, July 24, 2008, 4:58 PM





I'd like your opinion,...do any of you think we'll ever see another
Planet of the Apes movie after the one Tim Burton did?? I'd love to see
another one done myself. I have to be honest, though, I'd love to see
another director's take on the series though. Tim did a good job on the
POTA remake but I feel it could've been alot better. I have it in my
collection along with all my other POTA DVDs and series.






















 

Amen to that!  I, for one, have never seen the so-called 're-make', and have no intentions of doing so. 

 

For me, the only POTA, is the original POTA, in all of it's weirdness, 'cause that's what's so much fun about it!

 

Karyl Miller

----- Original Message ----
From: "Haristas@aol. com" <Haristas@aol. com>
To: pota@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 1:10:17 PM
Subject: [pota] Re: Another Planet of the Apes movie??..... ...

I'd like your opinion,...do any of you think we'll ever see another
Planet of the Apes movie after the one Tim Burton did?? I'd love to see
another one done myself. I have to be honest, though, I'd love to see
another director's take on the series though. Tim did a good job on the
POTA remake but I feel it could've been alot better. I have it in my
collection along with all my other POTA DVDs and series.

I watched some of it on the FX channel the other night.  This time I was struck (again) by just how awful the makeup was.

Let that movie be forgotten.  Yeah, I'd be interested in a new APES movie, but not anything related to Burton's fiasco. 

-- Rory

--

---

The Famous, the Infamous, the Lame - in your browser. Get the TMZ Toolbar Now!

Let me say these are all great theories. And none of them are mutually exclusive.

Just a few additional thoughts:

- On the time discrepancy, at the beginning of Battle the date is set at 2670 AD. That's about 1,300 years before Planet (regardless of whether it's 3978 or 3955). Dr. Zaius does say that the Sared Scrolls were written 1,200 year earlier. Now that wasn't meant to be an exact measurement of time (i.e. they were written in 2778 or 2755) but an estimate. And as most people do when dealing with long expanses of time, they round. Thus, it is possible the Scrolls were written up to 1,250 years before Planet. Thus the gap would only be 50 years.

- On there being two Lawgivers, this is something suggest by many before. The kindly Lawgiver we see in Battle is later replaced (or possibly deposed) by a more divisive one.

- On the interpetation of the Scrolls, remember the Lawgiver we see in Battle does speak of "evil men who betrayed god's trust". So it is very possible all the negative things about humans heard in Planet and Beneath refered to those humans and that the Orangutans & Gorillas highlighted those portions over the centuries. It would not be the first time a religious text was perverted to focus on the more negative aspect to justify people's prejudice. Remember in the 18th & 19th Centuries the Bible was often quoted to justify slavery.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Stuart Drucker" <sdrucker@...> wrote:
>
> How about this idea?
>
> At some point after 2670 AD (the time of the epilogue in Battle), there's a
> war between the Humans (trying to restore their dominion over the Apes,
> possibly driven by a charismatic demagogue) and the Apes (defending the
> status quo). Some humans stumble upon a cache of biological WMD, which they
> try to use on the Apes, killing many, until a chimp doctor named Galen
> discovers a cure. The Apes are about to lose when a gorilla named Aldo
> rallies the Apes. He leads a war of extermination against the Humans at a
> Rwandan genocide scale, driving the survivors out to the jungle, and in the
> process the liberal/egalitarian Ape leadership is swept aside.
>
>
>
> Aldo, it turns out, realizes that Gorillas aren't particularly good at the
> boring parts of government, and leaves that to the weakest element of ape
> society, the Orangutans. The Orangutans and the Gorillas prop each other up,
> and form their own "creation myth", with Aldo (metaphorically speaking) as
> the Ape who first said "no". The leader of the Orangutans that comes up with
> the pact is the Lawgiver, and to give the Chimps a fig leaf in their new
> society, immortalize Proteus as the Chimp (I think he was one) that helped
> humiliate the surviving Humans by leading one on a leash for the ape
> children to make sport of. This leads to the stasis-based society we see in
> Planet.
>
>
>
> And to reinforce the idea of repeating history, the bioweapon the Humans
> used turns out to have genetic effects which lead to the de-evolution of
> humanity over time (the ones with exposure to the area where the weapon was
> released, anyway). You wouldn't think 2000 years of radiation would be
> enough by itself? And needing to escape apes wouldn't be enough reason to
> suddenly stop thinking and talking after millennia of doing so?
>
>
>
> So in essence you have a mini-war which has reason to give the apes a
> permanent reason to be fearful of humans beyond just the historic memory of
> a "time before time".
>
>
>
> Stuart
>
>
>
> From: pota@yahoogroups.com [pota@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of scott
> bosco
> Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 7:49 AM
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [pota] Battle/Lawgiver theory, what do you all think?
>
>
>
> Personally, I think most people are just reading into the thing at face
> value and not getting the original point for the inconsistencies . The
> whole point of the parallel ape society was to bring to light what is
> negative in our own. Once given the power of speech the ape prove to be no
> better or worse than us. They hide the truth, exploit the innocent, hide
> behind lies, misuse religion, have prejudices, ignore the lessons of history
> - even rewrite it to fit their own end. When seen in this way less
> explaining is needed in attempting to tie together inconsistent plots points
> and actually adds more depth to the very large and epic history.
>
> The Lawgiver's original intentions may have been liberal and socially minded
> but I believe through the years were altered to fit political means.
>
> In PLANET we are show the structure then BENEATH the end results. With
> ESCAPE, CONQUEST and BATTLE we the viewers are actually shown the truth of
> how events unfolded. Events are as they actually happened, before they've
> been rewritten by and evolving society which prided itself to be different
> from those who enslaved them. Through the thousands of years they (Apes)
> only fell into the same trap we human did and like the game of telephone the
> true story changed to fit what they felt their perfect society required.
> They felt that hiding the truth would be safer than dealing with it.
>
> Humans ruling the world - covered up.
>
> A Gorilla committing the first murder of an ape - covered, and perhaps given
> the credit of being the first to say, "No" to his human master.
>
> Obviously something happened, "politically" to change the importance of
> Orangutans from BATTLE to the TV series and the then PLANET. The Orangutans
> rule, the Gorillas have the power/army. That's a bit switch from the larger
> number Chimps that seem to be around in BATTLE. I believe there was a coup
> by the Orangutans in league with the Gorillas which would develop into the
> system we see in the TV Series - and is suggested as being still wavering
> and precariously balanced between the Orangutans and the Gorillas - with
> still some distaste from the Chimpanzees. By PLANET each has settled into
> their places, but by BENEATH we see old satisfactions rearing. (In PLANET
> it was hinted at when Zira and Dr. Galan talk about a "quota" system being
> abolished - for Chimps with titles perhaps?)
>
> For these and other reason this is why I feel the statue of Caesar is seen
> weeping. For all or differences, we, ape and human are terribly the same -
> doomed to repeat the past for lack of learning from it. All that Caesar
> aspired to would be lost to hubris and arrogance. Proving that one species
> was no better than the other . or worse. Proving, at least in this section
> of the universe, there was nothing better than man.
>
> - Scott B.
>
>
>
>
> majinkoenma majinkoenma@... wrote:
>
> This is a theory that occurred to me as I was working on my POTA
> fanfic, and I thought I'd put it out there and see weather my fellow
> Apes fans agree with me. My apologies if someone else thought of this
> before me, and forgive me if I'm pointing out the blatantly obvious.
>
> Most people I've talked to agree that the ending of Battle for the
> Planet of the Apes is proof that the future had been changed, and
> instead of the Ape scoiety of the first two films developing a joint
> Ape/Human scoiety develops instead. I've always assumed this as well,
> but maybe the future wasn't really changer after all. My theory
> focuses on the Lawgiver.
>
> My theory is this, the Lawgiver we see at the beginning and end of
> Battle isn't the Lawgiver mentioned in the first two movies, the one
> who wrote the sacred scrolls. Maybe it's just me, but I've always just
> assumed that the Lawgiver from Battle is the one mentioned in the
> original movie, but now I don't think that is the case.
>
> Try to follow my logic. The ending scene in Battle with the Lawgiver
> teaching his class of Ape and Human children takes place 600 years
> after Caesar's death, which means that there is gap of approximately
> one thousand four hundred years between the end of Battle and the
> start of the original film. In the original Dr. Zaius tells Taylor
> that the Sacred Scrolls were written approximately one thousand two
> hundred years ago, two hundred years after Battle's ending scene. That
> would mean that Battle's Lawgiver couldn't be the THE Lawgiver from
> the original movie. That would also mean that there is ample time for
> the joint ape/human scoiety to fail, Humans to devolve into animals,
> and the Ape scoiety seen in the first two movies to develop.
>
> Again, forgive me if I;m pointing out something that everyone else had
> already figured out a long time ago, but there it is. So what do you
> all think?
>

Sort of like watching FOX News! LOL

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Rich Handley <handleyr@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Thus, the Sacred Scrolls, as Cornelius
> says, aren't worth the parchment they're written
> on--because they're meaningless propoganda,
> filled with lies and inaccurate presentations.
>

Has anyone checked this out? is it the Ubisoft game? I didn't download it...

http://www.planetdd l.com/download/ games/games/ planet-of- the-apes- rip-53965/

I tend to think of the "reimaging" as more of a marketing effort than a real movie.

It also confirmed my long standing opinion that Tim Burton is a hack.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, scott bosco <digitalcinema@...> wrote:
>
> You very luck NOT to have put yourself through that horrible re-make/re-imagining.
> I'll never forget how my heart sank in the sequence that suppose to be Hestons attempted escape and run-through the Ape City seeing a femail ape swing over a male in bed in a pre-sex escapade - I thought, this is the best they could think up?! How low and crass this once noble story has fallen. Tastless, tacky and crude.
>
> Not to mention the really bad make-up designs. The forgetable music. It just goes on...
> Arthur P. Jacobs must have rolled over in his grave.
> - Scott B.
>

I looked at an old VHS tape and there is no sound of the wagon doors in that version. From what I've read during the scene when Brent & Nova are following the hum there should also be the sound of rushing air leading to Brent's comment "They breathe air". When Brent touches the ladder and the hum goes silent the rushing air should still be heard. So it seems that a layer of the original audio is still missing.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@... wrote:
>
> OK, I just watched the "Legacy Set" DVD anamorphic transfer of BENEATH, with remixed Dolby 5.1 surround, and the only audio problem I could detect -- and I didn't give it really careful listen -- was that during the scene of the gorillas locking the chimpanzee protestors into the wagon cages, there was no sound of the cage doors being slammed. Can anyone with an older transfer, because I no longer have mine, check and see if the "Foley" effect of wagon doors being slammed was there originally?  Other than that, I think the audio is OK.  I couldn't hear any bleed of sound from the next scene in the previous, as there used to be, present in this new mix, although the level of some sound effects does seem low.  After the "Bleeding Lawgiver" statue falls, I could hardly hear the noises the panicked horses made, but it was there.
>
>
>
> -- Rory
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, scott bosco <digitalcinema@...> wrote:
>
> If it's the same one I bought year ago for my PC it's nice - but I
have to admit I didn't get very far playing it.
> - Scott B.
>
> "Tim \"apefan\"" <apefan23@...> wrote:
> Has anyone checked this out? is it the Ubisoft game? I
didn't download it...
>
> http://www.planetddl.com/download/games/games/planet-of-the-apes-rip-
53965/
>

----- Original Message -----

From: scott bosco

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 4:12 AM

Subject: Re: [pota] Re: Another Planet of the Apes movie??........

You very luck NOT to have put yourself through that horrible re-make/re-imaginin g.

I'll never forget how my heart sank in the sequence that suppose to be Hestons attempted escape and run-through the Ape City seeing a femail ape swing over a male in bed in a pre-sex escapade - I thought, this is the best they could think up?!  How low and crass this once noble story has fallen.  Tastless, tacky and crude.

 

Not to mention the really bad make-up designs.  The forgetable music.  It just goes on...

Arthur P. Jacobs must have rolled over in his grave.

- Scott B.

Karyl Miller <gone2thebad@ yahoo.com> wrote:

Amen to that!  I, for one, have never seen the so-called 're-make', and have no intentions of doing so. 

 

For me, the only POTA, is the original POTA, in all of it's weirdness, 'cause that's what's so much fun about it!

 

Karyl Miller

----- Original Message ----
From: "Haristas@aol. com" <Haristas@aol. com>
To: pota@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 1:10:17 PM
Subject: [pota] Re: Another Planet of the Apes movie??..... ...

I'd like your opinion,...do any of you think we'll ever see another
Planet of the Apes movie after the one Tim Burton did?? I'd love to see
another one done myself. I have to be honest, though, I'd love to see
another director's take on the series though. Tim did a good job on the
POTA remake but I feel it could've been alot better. I have it in my
collection along with all my other POTA DVDs and series.

I watched some of it on the FX channel the other night.  This time I was struck (again) by just how awful the makeup was.

Let that movie be forgotten.  Yeah, I'd be interested in a new APES movie, but not anything related to Burton's fiasco. 

-- Rory

--

---

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On 7/27/08, Jeff <skintricks@...> wrote:

I'm sorry, But the new make ups were FAR MORE realistic than the original.  I still love the original make ups, but, come on.  Maybe because I love real apes and I'm a make up artist, but I LOVE the new make ups.

 

Jeff B

----- Original Message -----

From: scott bosco

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, July 27, 2008 4:12 AM

Subject: Re: [pota] Re: Another Planet of the Apes movie??........

 

You very luck NOT to have put yourself through that horrible re-make/re-imagining.

I'll never forget how my heart sank in the sequence that suppose to be Hestons attempted escape and run-through the Ape City seeing a femail ape swing over a male in bed in a pre-sex escapade - I thought, this is the best they could think up?!  How low and crass this once noble story has fallen.  Tastless, tacky and crude.

 

Not to mention the really bad make-up designs.  The forgetable music.  It just goes on...

Arthur P. Jacobs must have rolled over in his grave.

- Scott B.

Karyl Miller <gone2thebad@...> wrote:

Amen to that!  I, for one, have never seen the so-called 're-make', and have no intentions of doing so. 

 

For me, the only POTA, is the original POTA, in all of it's weirdness, 'cause that's what's so much fun about it!

 

Karyl Miller

 

----- Original Message ----
From: "Haristas@..." <Haristas@...>
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 1:10:17 PM
Subject: [pota] Re: Another Planet of the Apes movie??........

I'd like your opinion,...do any of you think we'll ever see another
Planet of the Apes movie after the one Tim Burton did?? I'd love to see
another one done myself. I have to be honest, though, I'd love to see
another director's take on the series though. Tim did a good job on the
POTA remake but I feel it could've been alot better. I have it in my
collection along with all my other POTA DVDs and series.

I watched some of it on the FX channel the other night.  This time I was struck (again) by just how awful the makeup was.

 

Let that movie be forgotten.  Yeah, I'd be interested in a new APES movie, but not anything related to Burton's fiasco. 

 

-- Rory

--
 

---

The Famous, the Infamous, the Lame - in your browser. Get the TMZ Toolbar Now!

>>OK, I just watched the "Legacy Set" DVD anamorphic transfer of

>>What exactly are we talking about here?? I can't recall, but did

The description says the main character is named Ulysses, so it appears
to be the same Ubisoft game.

Jeff (RedSpy)

--- In pota@yahoogroups. com, scott bosco <digitalcinema@ ...> wrote:
>
> If it's the same one I bought year ago for my PC it's nice - but I
have to admit I didn't get very far playing it.
> - Scott B.
>
> "Tim \"apefan\"" <apefan23@.. .> wrote:
> Has anyone checked this out? is it the Ubisoft game? I
didn't download it...
>
> http://www.planetdd l.com/download/ games/games/ planet-of- the-apes- rip-
53965/
>

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, July 28, 2008 1:47 AM

Subject: Re: [pota] Re: Another Planet of the Apes movie??........

Even the eyebrows and hairstyles?

 

 

In a message dated 7/27/2008 9:56:35 P.M. Central Daylight Time, skintricks@cox. net writes:

I LOVE the new make ups.

---

Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today.

> What are your rarities and how do I get a copy? Thank you for the time

>>OK, I just watched the "Legacy Set" DVD anamorphic transfer of

>>Two major changes and three minor ones. In the original film

On 7/28/08, David Giwner <bikergator25@...> wrote:

Welcome Tom this is an awesome group. Dave NYC. --- On Mon, 7/28/08, Tom <alanspace@...> wrote: From: Tom <alanspace@...> Subject: [pota] Hi ALL To: pota@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, July 28, 2008, 8:52 PM Just joined. It's so cool that I found this group. Looking through the group I'm so amazed at the stuff you all have. It really brings back memories. Through the years I've lost most of the things I had collected, toys and all. Seeing them and the great pics posted is a trip down memory lane. Thanks. Really glad I joined. Tom

*** What LordT says is true...   John Chambers himself said something along the lines of they could have made the PLANET apes look more realistic but they didn't cause they didn't want the audience to be grossed out for two hours. *** --- On Mon, 7/28/08, LordTZer0@AOL. com <LordTZer0@AOL. com> wrote: From: LordTZer0@AOL. com <LordTZer0@AOL. com> Subject: Re: [pota] Re: Another Planet of the Apes movie??..... ... To: pota@yahoogroups. com Date: Monday, July 28, 2008, 5:07 PM That's why the originals didn't look like real chimps. And that's why they had to put a false nose on Baby Milo.  So he'd look more like them.   In a message dated 7/28/2008 9:55:50 A.M. Central Daylight Time, skintricks@cox. net writes: The female designs were the producers'.  They think we're all so repulsed by real looking chimps that they had to have them "pretty" Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, scott bosco <digitalcinema@...> wrote:
>
> Thank you for bring that up. It is so true for most of movies
made today. Filmmakers are so caught up in making movies "real",
and "Gritty" they are losing touch with entertainment, and
entertaining the public. Once a filmmaker crosses the line of
reality it becomes more a documentary in style, not film-making.
Film used to touch people's imagination, not reality. That is why
music is added, along with lighting, and the use of color. Now all
that is out. We have horrible color, mostly tinted cold blues and
greens. Music is treat more as an after thought filling space not
inspiring emotion. Lighting is out completely with digital
enhancement done in the editing room. Filmmakers now are more
technically adept than ever, but lack one thing - heart.
> That why the original POTAs are a product of their time - and a
testimony to what is becoming a lost "art".'
> Scott B.
>
> m c <aboro3085@...> wrote:
> *** What LordT says is true...
>
> John Chambers himself said something along the lines of they
could have made the PLANET apes look more realistic but they didn't
cause they didn't want the audience to be grossed out for two hours.
***
>
>
> --- On Mon, 7/28/08, LordTZer0@... <LordTZer0@...> wrote:
>
> From: LordTZer0@... <LordTZer0@...>
> Subject: Re: [pota] Re: Another Planet of the Apes movie??........
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, July 28, 2008, 5:07 PM
>
> That's why the originals didn't look like real chimps.
> And that's why they had to put a false nose on
> Baby Milo. So he'd look more like them.
>
> In a message dated 7/28/2008 9:55:50 A.M. Central Daylight
Time, skintricks@... writes:
> The female designs were the producers'. They think we're all so
repulsed by real looking chimps that they had to have them "pretty"
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for
FanHouse Fantasy Football today.
>

Excellent analysis, Scott. The whole idea was to make believable
apes, but evolved apes, not the most realistic apes possible.
That's why John Chambers makeup was perfect to me.

Boy, do I miss old-style movie-making.

--Mike

--- In pota@yahoogroups. com, scott bosco <digitalcinema@ ...> wrote:
>
> Thank you for bring that up. It is so true for most of movies
made today. Filmmakers are so caught up in making movies "real",
and "Gritty" they are losing touch with entertainment, and
entertaining the public. Once a filmmaker crosses the line of
reality it becomes more a documentary in style, not film-making.
Film used to touch people's imagination, not reality. That is why
music is added, along with lighting, and the use of color. Now all
that is out. We have horrible color, mostly tinted cold blues and
greens. Music is treat more as an after thought filling space not
inspiring emotion. Lighting is out completely with digital
enhancement done in the editing room. Filmmakers now are more
technically adept than ever, but lack one thing - heart.
> That why the original POTAs are a product of their time - and a
testimony to what is becoming a lost "art".'
> Scott B.
>
> m c <aboro3085@. ..> wrote:
> *** What LordT says is true...
>
> John Chambers himself said something along the lines of they
could have made the PLANET apes look more realistic but they didn't
cause they didn't want the audience to be grossed out for two hours.
***
>
>
> --- On Mon, 7/28/08, LordTZer0@.. . <LordTZer0@. ..> wrote:
>
> From: LordTZer0@.. . <LordTZer0@. ..>
> Subject: Re: [pota] Re: Another Planet of the Apes movie??..... ...
> To: pota@yahoogroups. com
> Date: Monday, July 28, 2008, 5:07 PM
>
> That's why the originals didn't look like real chimps.
> And that's why they had to put a false nose on
> Baby Milo. So he'd look more like them.
>
> In a message dated 7/28/2008 9:55:50 A.M. Central Daylight
Time, skintricks@. .. writes:
> The female designs were the producers'. They think we're all so
repulsed by real looking chimps that they had to have them "pretty"
>
>
>
>
> ------------ --------- --------- ---
> Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for
FanHouse Fantasy Football today.
>

How low and crass this once noble story has fallen. Tastless, tacky and crude.

Are you talking about the remake, or just the general modern condition of the United States?

-- Rory

---

The Famous, the Infamous, the Lame - in your browser. Get the TMZ Toolbar Now!

- On the time discrepancy, at the beginning of Battle the date is set at 2670 AD. That's about 1,300 years before Planet (regardless of whether it's 3978 or 3955). Dr. Zaius does say that the Sared Scrolls were written 1,200 year earlier. Now that wasn't meant to be an exact measurement of time (i.e. they were written in 2778 or 2755) but an estimate. And as most people do when dealing with long expanses of time, they round. Thus, it is possible the Scrolls were written up to 1,250 years before Planet. Thus the gap would only be 50 years.

- On there being two Lawgivers, this is something suggest by many before. The kindly Lawgiver we see in Battle is later replaced (or possibly deposed) by a more divisive one.

- On the interpetation of the Scrolls, remember the Lawgiver we see in Battle does speak of "evil men who betrayed god's trust". So it is very possible all the negative things about humans heard in Planet and Beneath refered to those humans and that the Orangutans & Gorillas highlighted those portions over the centuries. It would not be the first time a religious text was perverted to focus on the more negative aspect to justify people's prejudice. Remember in the 18th & 19th Centuries the Bible was often quoted to justify slavery.

I just want to know one thing -- JUST ONE THING!

What year was it that Proteous brought the "upright creature" into the garden, and the children did make sport of him?

Answer me that one?

Obviously it would have been before the Sacred Scrolls were written, which would have also been before the Lawgiver lived, right? Yet, it doesn't look like just before what we see at the beginning and end of BATTLE would have had "upright creatures" (i.e. naked human animals) being led into any gardens for ape kids to make fun of them, does it?

And when were those "carnivorous gorillas" that Cornelius dug up around? Eh?

Folks, there are TWO TIMELINES -- the original one, and a second one altered by the "ape-o-nauts" having gone back in time. TWO TIMELINES! Count them -- TWO!

You "Time Loopers" sound like creationists trying to explain the dinosaurs! Stop monkeying around and bend to the logic of TWO TIMELINES! TWO!

-- Rory

---

The Famous, the Infamous, the Lame - in your browser. Get the TMZ Toolbar Now!

But PLANET is it's own film and as Rory has said in the past, it does have the right to be considered it's own stand alone film... As such, any "weirdness" you may find in the film series doesn't apply to the masterpiece from 1968... ***

What's weird about the original PLANET is that such a unique and excellent movie had to have a bunch of inferior sequels. Mort Abrahams says it best in the "Behind" documentary -- there was no topping the surprise of the original.

-- Rory


-----Original Message-----
From: m c <aboro3085@...>
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, 27 Jul 2008 4:06 pm
Subject: Re: [pota] Re: Another Planet of the Apes movie??........

--- On Sat, 7/26/08, Karyl Miller <gone2thebad@ yahoo.com> wrote: From: Karyl Miller <gone2thebad@ yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [pota] Re: Another Planet of the Apes movie??..... ... To: pota@yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, July 26, 2008, 5:11 PM For me, the only POTA, is the original POTA, in all of it's weirdness, 'cause that's what's so much fun about it! *** Exactly what is so "weird" about APES? I'm guessing you mean the entire series of films when you refer to POTA, but if you're implying PLANET only then you are a true heretic... There is nothing "weird" about that film at all... The sequels have their moments, but I wouldn't call them weird so much as just having dumb moments and they especially suffer from B grade film making due to poor budgets. But PLANET is it's own film and as Rory has said in the past, it does have the right to be considered it's own stand alone film... As such, any "weirdness" you may find in the film series doesn't apply to the masterpiece from 1968... ***

---

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I'm sorry, But the new make ups were FAR MORE realistic than the original. I still love the original make ups, but, come on. Maybe because I love real apes and I'm a make up artist, but I LOVE the new make ups.

Jeff B

The new makeups were too "flat-faced" for me. The apes looked too human. I much prefer the design of the original makeups, but I agree that the mouths are a problem with the original makeups.

-- Rory

---

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You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/pota/ files/%21cid_ 001c01c8f045% 24d9a6b510% 240202a8c0% 40skintricks. jpg

I think that orang is a little creepy looking. I don't recall any looking like that in the film series, except maybe in BATTLE.

-- Rory

---

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That's why the originals didn't look like real chimps.

And that's why they had to put a false nose on

Baby Milo. So he'd look more like them.

This reminds me of something I've been meaning to bring up. I've mentioned before that one of the strange things about ESCAPE is how the apes from the future are at first simply accepted by the humans as normal chimpanzees -- even though they look nothing like primitive apes! In real life their freakish appearance would have been immediately noticed. This is where one aspect of the series starts to fall apart for me -- the makeup. It worked in PLANET and BENEATH, but with ESCAPE they shouldn't have tried to pass off the future apes as normal looking, and should have somehow had Baby Milo survive to mate with a primitive ape (possibly in Armando's circus), THEN produce an intelligent offspring, and it would be this more primitive yet articulate grandchild of Zira and Cornelius that would lead the apes out of slavery in CONQUEST. That would have required a new makeup, closer to modern apes, and I think would have improved the last two films. The TV series then could have had a makeup design somewhere between the primitive and future looks.

But Fox didn't do that because probably no one thought of it and20they were making the sequels on the cheap.

-- Rory

---

The Famous, the Infamous, the Lame - in your browser. Get the TMZ Toolbar Now!

--- On Mon, 7/28/08, Tom <alanspace@...> wrote:

> From: Tom <alanspace@...>
> Subject: [pota] Hi ALL
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, July 28, 2008, 8:52 PM
> Just joined. It's so cool that I found this group.
> Looking through the
> group I'm so amazed at the stuff you all have. It
> really brings back
> memories. Through the years I've lost most of the
> things I had
> collected, toys and all. Seeing them and the great pics
> posted is a
> trip down memory lane.
> Thanks. Really glad I joined.
> Tom

--- On Tue, 7/29/08, Haristas@... <Haristas@...> wrote:

> From: Haristas@... <Haristas@...>
> Subject: [pota] Re: New file uploaded to pota
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, July 29, 2008, 5:38 PM
> You can access this file at the URL:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/%21cid_001c01c8f045%24d9a6b510%240202a8c0%40skintricks.jpg
>
>
> I think that orang is a little creepy looking. I
> don't recall any looking like that in the film series,
> except maybe in BATTLE.
>
>
>
> -- Rory

>>Hi Chris,

How low and crass this once noble story has fallen.  Tastless, tacky and crude.

 

Are you talking about the remake, or just the general modern condition of the United States?

-- Rory

---

The Famous, the Infamous, the Lame - in your browser. Get the TMZ Toolbar Now!

Calm down Rory.  I for one have always believed that there were two timelines.

 

Besides, who's to say that humans still ended up as primitive dimwits a thousand years after Ceasar's death?

 

No one.

 

Wasn't it simply speculation on the part of the director, that the reason Ceasar's statue was crying was because his vision for an integrated society had failed?

 

Was it specifically stated in the script that it had failed?

 

I'll be the first to admit that I have never read any of the scripts (although I'd like to get my greedy little hands on them.) so, I have no idea of the script in question stated it or not.

 

But wouldn't it have come out by now, if it had?

 

Karyl Miller

----- Original Message ----
From: "Haristas@aol. com" <Haristas@aol. com>
To: pota@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 2:50:35 PM
Subject: [pota] Re: Battle/Lawgiver theory, what do you all think?

- On the time discrepancy, at the beginning of Battle the date is set at 2670 AD. That's about 1,300 years before Planet (regardless of whether it's 3978 or 3955). Dr. Zaius does say that the Sared Scrolls were written 1,200 year earlier. Now that wasn't meant to be an exact measurement of time (i.e. they were written in 2778 or 2755) but an estimate. And as most people do when dealing with long expanses of time, they round. Thus, it is possible the Scrolls were written up to 1,250 years before Planet. Thus the gap would only be 50 years.

- On there being two Lawgivers, this is something suggest by many before. The kindly Lawgiver we see in Battle is later replaced (or possibly deposed) by a more divisive one.

- On the interpetation of the Scrolls, remember the Lawgiver we see in Battle does speak of "evil men who betrayed god's trust". So it is very possible all the negative things about humans heard in Planet and Beneath refered to those humans and that the Orangutans & Gorillas highlighted those portions over the centuries. It would not be the first time a religious text was perverted to focus on the more negative aspect to justify people's prejudice. Remember in the 18th & 19th Centuries the Bible was often quoted to justify slavery.

I just want to know one thing -- JUST ONE THING!

What year was it that Proteous brought the "upright creature" into the garden, and the children did make sport of him?

Answer me that one?

Obviously it would have been before the Sacred Scrolls were written, which would have also been before the Lawgiver lived, right?  Yet, it doesn't look like just before what we see at the beginning and end of BATTLE would have had "upright creatures" (i.e. naked human animals) being led into any gardens for ape kids to make fun of them, does it?

And when were those "carnivorous gorillas" that Cornelius dug up around?  Eh?

Folks, there are TWO TIMELINES -- the original one, and a second one altered by the "ape-o-nauts" having gone back in time.  TWO TIMELINES!  Count them -- TWO!

You "Time Loopers" sound like creationists trying to explain the dinosaurs!  Stop monkeying around and bend to the logic of TWO TIMELINES!  TWO!

-- Rory 

---

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