Of course the question I've always had is why Zaius waited weeks to seperate Taylor & Nova. Why not do it immediately after Taylor talked.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Vic Martinez <vicrips@...> wrote:
>
> Yeah but if He had killed that human the Apes may have placed him in quarantine for being vicious!
>

That was a great bit on last night's Late Show. Kevin Smith is a big POTA fan too. I'm surprized he didn't jump in.

BTW That was filmed just a few blocks from where I grew up. The Chase bank in the background use to be a movie theater which was torn down in the late '60s.

In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Tim \"apefan\"" <apefan23@...> wrote:

>
> Here he is doing Zaius.....
> I remember he did a whole episode of his series about getting the DVD set.....
>
> http://www.blackvoices.com/daily-drama/ape-impersonation-late-show/70184608001
>

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!BnfkM(!!mk~$(KGrHqYOKiwEtlsD2h2cBLjr+COy1w~~_3.jpg
!BnfkM(!!mk~$(KGrHqYOKiwEtlsD2h2cBLjr+COy1w~~_3-57535.jpg

amd_planetoftheapes.jpg
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Glad you finally remembered that.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@... wrote:
>
>
> THIS IS THE POTA GROUP!!!!!
>

Never heard of such a poster myself but I'm not an expert on UK posters. Could be something the theater put together special for the event.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "salty1964" <salty1964@...> wrote:
>
> Hi many years ago, here in the Uk, I remember a screening at our local cinema of both Planet and escape in one presentation, the Uk Quad ( if I remember correctly)for this was of both the original posters together on one poster, with the tag line "The Apes are back on the big screen", however I cannot find any pic of this at all, can anyone help me out, thanks.
>

On Sun, Mar 7, 2010 at 12:47 PM, George Taylor <georgetaylor68@...> wrote:

Fox reportedly still aspires to produce CAESAR, a sort of sequel to the POTA series:

http://www.411mania.com/movies/columns/129357

The author of that piece claims that the franchise isn't worth rebooting, as its subject matter has been adequately explored already. Do you agree?

I think that as long as people seek to overcome their oppressors, Caesar's message will ring close to home for them... Does the author think nobody has bosses they resent, tax collectors they distrust, or other oppressors who abuse their power? Go Fox go! :-)

IMO I think part of the problem is that directors like Wise, Wyler and Schaffner thought of themselves as craftsmen. Many directors today, like Burton, think of themselves as artists.

And let's not forget that Schaffner also directed Patton and Papillion. Two films very different from each other and very different from POTA.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, scott bosco <digitalcinema@...> wrote:
>
> Yes.  The problem with most director's today is that they put THEIR needs ahead of the film they are working on.  They don't consider what would be best for the subject matter or story.  Egos are feed first causing changes to the material which don't make for a lasting impression.  This is why the better director's or years past will always rise above the works of today.  Those directors did their job based on what the material called for - which is why they were able to do so many different kinds of films that succeeded.  EG: Robert Wise - Day the Earth Stood Still to Sound of Music, to The Sand Pebbles. Or, William Wyler - Ben- Hur to Funny Girl, to Roman Holiday.  Then there's Franklin J. Shaffner - Boy from Brazil, Nicholas and Alexandra to, or course POTA.
> They directed and gave what each film and genre required with only hints of their style in stead of completely smothering, or warping the material to fit their views.  God know Tim Burton has his own style, he's been bashing his audience on the head with it repeatedly from the beginning.  As an artist he's to repetitive.  Lucky for him the general public is so debased in terms of taste he can get away with it like repetition is needed to a special needs child in teaching.
> So many films done today based on pre-existing material fail do to the director not being true to was was there, but branding "their" needs takes front stage.  POTA is a powerful and original concept that needs to be handled and presented in a way that allows the material to present itself and be presented gracefully and quietly by a director who can do his/her work by stepping aside and just letting it be.
> - Scott B.
>

Why would Zaius want that? Isn't that what he is most afraid of? As soon as he suspects that Taylor is a mutant, he orders him geld so he can't reproduce. The question is why did he then let Taylor share a cell with Nova for weeks after that.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, PofTAfan@... wrote:
>
>
> maybe Zaius wanted to see if they were going to mate and a talking human child would be born of the two
>
>
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@... wrote:

>
>
> My friend, you have opened a whole barrel of monkeys that has been debated here many times before. It is one of the most heated in POTAdom -- the alternate timeline vs. the timeloop debate. I welcome a reopening of this, especially from James, who's argument basically boils down to "Don't think, just accept what Paul Dehn said."
>

And I've never said don't think, but respect the writer's intent and don't completely change the narrative from what the writer intended based on what is essentially a continuity error.

>
>
> I am on your side, Richard, for it seems to be the more logical and is supported by unrelated works of SF that tell you that if you alter one thing in the past, it alters the future, Bradbury's "A Sound of Thunder" being
> a good example.
>
> -- Rory

"Supported by unrelated works of SF"??? That's a bit of an oxymoron. How can something be supported be something that is unrelated to it. That's like saying that Global Warming is supported by the fact you had a good bowl movement today.

If you go by unrelated works then Apes can't talk, Superman can't fly, the Enterprise can't travel at warp speed. Unrelated works are just that unrelated. The POTA universe has the right to stand on its own and not have to be affected by unrelated works.

In case anyone is unfamilar with Paul Dehn's comments on the subject:

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Richard" <ricbard2002@...> wrote:

>
> If you hear what Cornelius says in Escape there was about a 500 years before Aldo said 'no' and thus the revolution kicked in and the nuclear war was about in the year 2503.

This is where the "two timelines" theory falls apart for me. Why assume that events took place in the same order in both timelines? Why assume there was an Ape revolution as at all? C&Z never speak of any revolution. Maybe it was a slow role reversal as depicted in Boulle's novel.

Plus, Planet and Beneath establish that the nuclear war took place in the 20th Century, not the 25th. So wouldn't it be more logical to say the nuclear war happened in the 20th, the few humans that survived were in rural areas. As they were rebuilding, the plague hit killing off all cat & dogs so they then took apes as pets.

> (this is verified in POTA TV episode 1 when Farrow shows Burke and Virdon the picture book > with a pic of NEW YORK CITY 2503.)

Whether the TV series takes place in the same POTA universe is debatable. Like the animated series or Burton's remake, it could exist in a completely different POTA universe. Since no one, other than Roddy, who was involved in the TV series had anything to do with the film series that may be the case.

Also the TV series is a bit inconsistant on this point. The ruined cities shown are not futuristic cites from the 26th Century but seem more like the 20th Century. In the episode "The Trap", the BART station is clearly from the 20th Century. And the picture in the book is a drawing, not a photograph so it could just be an artist's conception of what New York would look like in the 26th Century.

Now Cornelius and Zira come back and Ceasar is born thus pushing the revolution up by hundreds of years.

But how did Caesar push up the progression of Apes from pets to slaves by hundreds of years? He was with Armando in the circus. C&Z said that process took 2 centuries, yet it took only 8 years without any influence from Caesar. This is why the scenario above make more sense. Without technology after the nuclear war, the rural surviving humans had to breed apes to be smarter over time. That's why it took 2 centuries. Isn't that more logical?

>Posted by: "Richard" ricbard2002@... ricbard2002
>Now granted I have not 'read' that super involved timeline book but
>from what I gather from reviews is that the author makes it one
>straight timeline encompising all of everything. My opinion is not
>so. Those of you who think that there is only one time line leadin
>to the future are wrong.

And the objective approach taken is one of the strengths of the book. A must buy for every serious POTA fan.

http://www.hassleinbooks.com/

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Rich Handley <handleyr@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> For the record, the book does not advocate a single timeline. In
> fact, the book does not take a stance on the circular vs. changing
> timeline debate. The book merely says where every event is said to
> occur, or makes a reasonable determination based on evidence if an
> event is undated, and lets readers decide whether they subscribe to a
> circular timeline or changing timeline model.
>
> Just sayin'. :)
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@... wrote:

>
>
> Dehn was a dummy, he bastardized the concept of the original film and did even worse to Boulle. God damn Dehn all to hell!
>

Well the same can be said of all sequels. Dehn did what he was hired to do. Maybe your ire should be directed at FOX and Arthur Jacobs for deciding to do sequels in the first place.

>
> The original movie has a right to stand on its own and not be affected by its sequels, but how many POTAfiles will accept that?
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "jamesa1102" <JamesA1102@...> wrote:
>
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@ wrote:
> >
> >
> > Dehn was a dummy, he bastardized the concept of the original film and
> did even worse to Boulle. God damn Dehn all to hell!
> >
>
> Well the same can be said of all sequels. Dehn did what he was hired to
> do. Maybe your ire should be directed at FOX and Arthur Jacobs for
> deciding to do sequels in the first place.
>
> >
> > The original movie has a right to stand on its own and not be affected
> by its sequels, but how many POTAfiles will accept that?
> >
> I think all or at least most. I don't think I've ever heard anyone who
> doesn't think the original film doesn't deserve to stand on its own. The
> same is true for the original Star Wars, the first Terminator film, Die
> Hard, etc. Sequels don't affect the original in any way, they just
> continue and expand on narratives from the first film.
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "jamesa1102" <JamesA1102@...> wrote:
>
>
> And the objective approach taken is one of the strengths of the book. A
> must buy for every serious POTA fan.
>
> http://www.hassleinbooks.com/ <http://www.hassleinbooks.com/>
>
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Rich Handley <handleyr@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > For the record, the book does not advocate a single timeline. In
> > fact, the book does not take a stance on the circular vs. changing
> > timeline debate. The book merely says where every event is said to
> > occur, or makes a reasonable determination based on evidence if an
> > event is undated, and lets readers decide whether they subscribe to a
> > circular timeline or changing timeline model.
> >
> > Just sayin'. :)
> >
>

I think you are conflating two very different things here.

First is the POTA as a piece of cinematic art that exists in the real world which is reliant on nothing and is a single entity that stands on its own.

Second is the fictional universe created within the narrative of the film. That is still reliant on nothing. If no sequel had ever been made it would still stand on its own. All the sequels do is expand on the storylines and concepts started in that first film. Regardless of which "timeline theory" you adhere to, all the sequels do is provide more of the backstory to the first film.

If no sequel had been made to Star Wars, Darth Vader would not be Luke's father. Leia would not be his sister and Yoda wouldn't even exist. All the sequels in that series did is add to the overall story arc and provide more depth to the characters and situations. So the original Star Wars is not reliant on its sequels and prequels either as a piece of cinematic art or within the fictional universe created by its narrative. Same is true of POTA.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@... wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Which is exactly my point.... the alternate timeline point of view of the series allows the original its artistic "single entity" dignity, but the timeloop view warps the original film into the "loopy" world of the sequels and requires that you accept, in my opinion, the very wrongheaded and artistically invalid notion that the very "what is" of the original requires the sequels -- or else it wouldn't exist. It's crazy, and if I let it, it makes me very angry, and yeah, angry not at Jacobs, but at Fox because they pretty much see all the APES films as just one "saga."
>
> No, sir.... I don't like the timeloop theory.
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Barkley <skintricks@...>
Date: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 0:44 am
Subject: [pota] conspiracy of the apes

> When and if this book gets off the ground, it might be a contender
> for a new POTA film. It has the characters that are familiar to
> us, but with a twist.
>
> Jeff B

On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 12:46 PM, Eric Payton <ursuszaiuscaesar@...> wrote:

If you just ignore some of what Cornelius says in Escape, then it makes more sense.

Speaking of,

I always had the impression from the first two movies that the apes had thought of the humans as always being dumb animals (Zaius being the exception). So why would the Sacred Scrolls mention their enslavement to humans? And celebrating the day that Aldo said "No!!"??

---

--
Bill Hollweg
Have Sword...
Will Slay...
Barbarian in need of Ale...
Check out my Audio Drama Productions-
Bill Hollweg
Lord of Design for BrokenSea Audio
And the other half of "The Brothers of Kaboom... BY FRACKIN' CROM!
www.brokensea.net
The Saga of the Grog and Gryphon @
http://www.brokensea.com and
http://www.westlakefilms.co.uk
Planet of the Apes at
http://www.brokensea.com and
Ulysses-Galactic Guides & Bounty Hunting
http://www.brokensea.com and
CONAN the Audio Book and Audio Drama
http://brokensea.com/conan/

On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 2:07 PM, Bill Hollweg <billhollweg@...> wrote:

I always thought the House of Zaius was the only privilaged set of Simians who got to see the secret scrolls- the ones mentioned here in question.

On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 12:46 PM, Eric Payton <ursuszaiuscaesar@...> wrote:

If you just ignore some of what Cornelius says in Escape, then it makes more sense.

Speaking of,

I always had the impression from the first two movies that the apes had thought of the humans as always being dumb animals (Zaius being the exception). So why would the Sacred Scrolls mention their enslavement to humans? And celebrating the day that Aldo said "No!!"??

---

--
Bill Hollweg
Have Sword...
Will Slay...
Barbarian in need of Ale...
Check out my Audio Drama Productions-
Bill Hollweg
Lord of Design for BrokenSea Audio
And the other half of "The Brothers of Kaboom... BY FRACKIN' CROM!
www.brokensea.net
The Saga of the Grog and Gryphon @
http://www.brokensea.com and
http://www.westlakefilms.co.uk
Planet of the Apes at
http://www.brokensea.com and
Ulysses-Galactic Guides & Bounty Hunting
http://www.brokensea.com and
CONAN the Audio Book and Audio Drama
http://brokensea.com/conan/

I really wouldn't want to see POTA in 3D. I prefer seeing how it was originally intended to be seen. Turning old films 3D is like colorizing old B&W films.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Alex Ruiz <pota1968@...> wrote:
>
>
> Get ready for Planet of the Apes in 3D. :o)
>

Zaius knew so there must have been section of the Sacred Scrolls that were kept secret from the public. Cornelius confirms this in Escape. As to celebrating Aldo saying 'No', the public might just know that he was the first Ape to speak, like a Simian version of Adam, but know the context or what he actually said.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Eric Payton <ursuszaiuscaesar@...> wrote:
>
>
> I always had the impression from the first two movies that the apes had thought of the humans as always being dumb animals (Zaius being the exception). So why would the Sacred Scrolls mention their enslavement to humans? And celebrating the day that Aldo said "No!!"??
>
>

Something I always wondered was when C&Z figured out that Taylor came from the past. They didn't believe he came from another planet but though he 'sprang from our own'. However, there must have been some point when they realized that he came from their planet but from 2,000 years in the past.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Bill Hollweg <billhollweg@...> wrote:
>
> And a select group of Chimps like Cornelius
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "jamesa1102" <JamesA1102@...> wrote:
>
>
> Zaius knew so there must have been section of the Sacred Scrolls that
> were kept secret from the public. Cornelius confirms this in Escape. As
> to celebrating Aldo saying 'No', the public might just know that he was
> the first Ape to speak, like a Simian version of Adam, but know the
> context or what he actually said.
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Eric Payton <ursuszaiuscaesar@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I always had the impression from the first two movies that the apes
> had thought of the humans as always being dumb animals (Zaius being the
> exception). So why would the Sacred Scrolls mention their enslavement to
> humans? And celebrating the day that Aldo said "No!!"??
> >
> >
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> Rupert Wyatt ("The Escapist") - - never heard of him.
>
> http://www.deadline.com/2010/03/wyatt-monkeying-with-fox-prequel/
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@... wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Something I always wondered was when C&Z figured out that Taylor came from the past. They didn't believe he came from another planet but though he 'sprang from our own'. However, there must have been some point when they realized that he came from their planet but from 2,000 years in the past.
>
> I don't think there's any hint they knew a thing until ESCAPE.
>

TGIF!!! This week's installement of APE CITY CHRONICLES is now available.

To access click on the banner on the Yahoo home page or use this link: http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/ACC.htm.

Have a great weekend everyone!

Visit all the Group's special features including:

• The Group Website  - Original POTA One Sheets & Lobby Cards, Trailers & Rare Videos, Trading Cards and much, much more.
• POTA Locations  - The places where the POTA films were shot.
• Cornelius' Journal  - The Memoirs of Dr. Cornelius.
• Lessons from the Lawgiver – Words of wisdom from the Greatest Ape of All.
• The Art Gallery  - Works of POTA Art by our members.
• The Database Section  - POTA info ranging from Characters to Comics.
• The Photos Section  - POTA pics contributed by members.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "JohnM conquest-idor" <johnmermigas@...> wrote:

>
> Its simple. With all things religious and mythical history gets convoluted. Just think of these scrolls and the Zaius and Cornelius' facts as an Ape "Davinci Code".

I prefer to call it:

The cartoon is OK and in some ways better than the live action TV series. But it is totally unrelated to the films.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Eric Payton <ursuszaiuscaesar@...> wrote:
>
> The cartoon especially. That's the one thing POTA that's still hard to watch. But I do because I'm a fan.
>
>
>

I agree with you here although it is debatable whether the TV series is in the same POTA universe as the films.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "JohnM conquest-idor" <johnmermigas@...> wrote:
>
> Personally the Ape timeline cannot include everything that we have of the apes in one nice line leading from the past to the future. The movies are one world, the T.V. series is another and the comics and cartoons are another, they do not and cannot be one universe. John M.
>

True but when in Escape? When the commission asks them about Taylor, they don't seem surprized by the question. So it had to be before then.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@... wrote:
>
>
> I don't think there's any hint they knew a thing until ESCAPE.
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@... wrote:
>
> One of the things that's disturbing me about this CAESAR, is that the screenplay has now been rewritten by the husband and wife team of Rick Jaffa and Amanda Sliver. Sounds like a remake of a script rewrite back in 1973 -- and look how that turned out.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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